This Week in Tech Episode 892 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
Iit's time for TWiTI this week in tech. I'm not even gonna tell you what the stories were because you're gonna wanna be here for the panel alone. Renee Richie makes a triumphant return. Father. Robert Ballas air is here and our old submariner friend, the king of SSDs, Alan mal Ventana. Yes. We'll talk about what happened to Octa, the brand new iPhone and a whole lot more, including a very happy birthday to TWiTo very important things, both 45 years old today. You'll find out what I'm talking about next on TWiTitter podcasts you love

TWiT Intro (00:00:38):
From people you trust. This

Leo Laporte (00:00:42):
Is TWiTI TWiTI. This is TWiTI this weekend tech episode 892 recorded Sunday, September 11th, 2022. You're in Newton's hands. Now

Leo Laporte (00:01:02):
This week at tech is brought to you by Melissa. Make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Try Melissa's APIs in the developer portal. It's easy to log on, sign up and start playing in the API sandbox. 24 7 get started today with 1000 records, clean for free at and by user user ways, the world's number one accessibility solution. And it's committed to enabling the fundamental human right of digital accessibility for everyone. When you're ready to make your site compliant. Deciding which solution to use is an easy choice to make, go to user for 30% off user ways. AI powered accessibility solution and by collide collide is an endpoint security solution that uses the most powerful untapped resource in it. And users visit to learn more and activate a free 14 day trial today, no credit card required and by worldwide technology and Intel with an innovative culture, thousands of it, engineers, application developers, unmatched labs and integration centers for testing and deploying technology at scale WWT helps customers bridge the gap beTWiTeen strategy and execution to learn more about WWT, visit

Leo Laporte (00:02:36):
It's time for TWiTit this week at tech, the show we cover the weeks tech news. I am really happy to have this group here. It's kind of the OG TWiTit panel. Let's start with Alan MAANA who left a PC perspective. He was a regular on the, this weekending computer hardware show and the PC per do com to go, go to Intel. And as now, and we couldn't ever really get him when he was at Intel. <Laugh> just once he got you once, once we got you once and now he's left Intel actually gone to a spinoff of Intel. Their Nan department got spun off into something called Sola dime. He is an SS D technologist, always my hero when it comes to solid state drives. Hello, Alan, I help when I can. I appreciate it. Alan. Also when he was in the Navy, worked in nuclear submarines and intelligence.

Leo Laporte (00:03:31):
So if you have any questions about, oh boy skiffs, here we go. The floodgates are open either. S C I F or S K I F F either way he can answer them. <Laugh> skiffs or skiffs. It's great to have you Ellen. Wonderful to have you. Good to see, to see you. Look at your, look at your room there. You could all sorts all the Choki. There's always ch oh, I love that all sorts of memorabilia. I'm gonna have to look deep into your I'm competing with your set. I know it's wild. Yeah. Gotta do something. Hey, look, who else is here all the way from the Vatican it's father Robert Ballas there and the VCAs. Yeah. <laugh> digital. Jesuit. Yeah. They're

Padre (00:04:11):
Still here.

Leo Laporte (00:04:12):
Yeah. Look at how nice his background is. It's clean, you know, it's beautiful. It's what's that rig over your right shoulder there though. What is that?

Padre (00:04:22):
This one. Is that

Leo Laporte (00:04:23):
Like a lighting lighting rig there? Yeah. Your right shoulder.

Padre (00:04:26):
Yeah, several actually. Yeah. So, and I learned from my time at TWiTit, I learned how to build a basic stage. I learned how to do things and with, with depth and color looks good. So this is a super basic set that cost about $50 to set. And it's great for all my zoom calls.

Leo Laporte (00:04:40):
And you are a top the society of Jesus dorms at the Vatican city. Am I correct?

Padre (00:04:48):
Indeed. And actually right now, this is what's outside. So that window, oh,

Leo Laporte (00:04:54):
Covers this. You you're seeing

Padre (00:04:55):
That's what I'm saying. So when I, when I open up this curtain, this black curtain, that's what south? Well,

Leo Laporte (00:05:00):
Open it up. Forget the black curtain. <Laugh>

Padre (00:05:04):
If I do all the lights flood right back into the camera, unfortunately.

Leo Laporte (00:05:07):
Oh, it's very beautiful. So that's that's St Peter's and it's lit like beautifully lit it's lit it's gorgeous

Padre (00:05:12):
People. Don't realize St. Peter's is nice during the day. It is gorgeous at night. You have to come at night. Yeah. That's when it lights up. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:05:21):
Yeah. Also with this long time. No. See our dear friend former host at Mac break weekly now creator liaison at YouTube, Renee Richie. God bless you. I thought we would never get to have you on YouTube is relented. Eh,

Padre (00:05:37):
I am so excited. Well, I mean, I can do podcast like this, cuz this is mostly me. This has very little to do with YouTube and mostly has to do with me. So

Leo Laporte (00:05:44):
This is way easier. Yeah. I won't make you talk about YouTube. I won't make father Robert talk about the Pope. I won't make Allen talk about submarines and it's just the deal we make. It's just the deal. We'll just switch

Padre (00:05:54):
Off with each other. We'll

Leo Laporte (00:05:56):
We, you talk about the submarines. Yeah. And

Padre (00:05:58):
I have a video of the Pope on a submarine. So I mean, it kind of covers everything is the video on YouTube. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:06:06):
Youtube. We got the that's that's amazing. Actually, the Pope came to mind this week, of course, with the passing of queen Elizabeth. You know, I was wondering why not everybody is, feels sad about this, but I did. And I was wondering why, and it reminded me a little bit about the Pope. It's nice to have world leaders who can be leaders without being politicians. Yeah. And, and I think that queen Elizabeth II gave such solace and sucker to her people because she could stand above the fray and just be a kind caring person. And I think there's a lot to be said for that. And the Pope is, I mean, Pope's a little more political. He gets a little bit more involved in the day to day operations, cuz he is, he's more than just a titular head of state. He really is head of state mm-hmm <affirmative>. But he also, I think for, for Catholics all over the world is a moral figure and somebody who gives them solace and I think that's important. I really do. So anyway, yeah,

Padre (00:07:08):
No, it's, it's something unique. I mean, I get it. I, I understand the people who have either issues with the monarchy or with the queen herself or the family, the politics and the dynamics there. I get all that. I don't, I don't wanna minimize that, but there is something about a person, be it the queen or Pope Francis about a person who is just very dedicated to duty. Yeah. We don't, we actually don't get that a lot. No, we, we always feel this compromise in our leaders. So when you have a leader that genuinely is trying to do their best, even when they mess up it, it comes off as something special. That's a good way to, I get why people miss. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:07:44):
Why duty is very people who and of course this is also September 11th, the 20 hard to believe 21st anniversary. Yeah. Of the horrific attacks on New York city and the Pentagon I feel the same way. That's actually there. I can tie it in mm-hmm <affirmative> I, I remember going a few years ago to ground zero, the Memorial there is very beautiful, but then going into the museum and I burst into tears because at the entrance to the museum, there's a fire truck. That's half melted. It's the FD N Y. And I realized what I admire about these first responders is they is duty their sense of duty that they run into a place where people are running away from, they run into, they ran into the fire, they ran into the fire and it's that it's that same sense of duty that transcends even their survival instinct. That is so moving. And so, yeah, it is, it all ties together. I would observe a minute of silence, but you just skip through it. So I won't, but <laugh>, it's too easy. I've

Padre (00:08:51):
Been to that.

Allyn Malventano (00:08:52):
I've been to that museum. They have tissue book, like really nice pedestal style tissue boxes about every 20 feet. And for good reason,

Leo Laporte (00:08:59):
I balled my eyes out and I, I don't consider myself a crier, but it is very, it's a difficult museum, but I think an important one. Yeah. But

Rene Ritchie (00:09:10):
You, you know what, strangely,

Padre (00:09:11):
When, when you think about it, we, there are adults now, adults, not, not kids, not children, adults who were born after that. They never knew the United States before nine 11 and how much it changed because of what happened that day. I mean, we are a, a dramatically different nation, both in culture and tenor than we were pre nine 11, some good and some bad,

Leo Laporte (00:09:33):
Well, that's the other thing is I'm, I'm watching for the first time ever. The accession ceremony was broadcast yesterday of the new king and, and you know, the, the privy council gathers and they say, is it okay if we use the old seals until you destroy them? And, and, and he's gonna hit them with a hammer when they get the new seals. And this, for me, the sense of history was also interesting. And there talk about people who weren't alive 95% of the world wasn't alive when queen Elizabeth became queen. So, and I've never

Padre (00:10:11):

Leo Laporte (00:10:11):
Queen, we've never known another queen. So you know, to hear God save the king for the first time to see those E TWiTo R insignia on their money, on their post office boxes, everywhere, removed and replaced with whatever Sid he decides to use all of this to me is history. I mean, I think like Henry thei it's it's history and we're getting to watch it. And so, yeah, I think for a lot of a whole generation of kids nine Eleven's history, for those of us who remember it, it's searing history. I'm probably none of you remember JFK getting shot, but I do. And again, same thing, you know exactly where you were. You remember every detail, isn't

Rene Ritchie (00:10:52):
That why we have the, the rituals though. We have the traditions, both religious and just in terms of society, when you have the succession or the excession, and they go through all those things, the change is very hard for us, but seeing those traditions, being able to think of them, like, even if you've never seen them before, you know, they've been passed down through history and it provides like this whole wave of, of stability so that the, the change feels less scary. It just gives you a grounding and this, we are part of a much longer, much older much Stabler process.

Leo Laporte (00:11:21):
Yeah, exactly. And and I like that because the stock and trade for all of us is technologists is move, move, move, change, change, change every second. And so it's nice to have some roots, some grounding. It's

Rene Ritchie (00:11:36):
Really interesting though. Cause like one of the things that I, I concerned is too much of a word, but we've been doing a lot of nostalgia and technology lately. Like for the last three to four years, five years, we've been going back to these retro designs and we've been rebuilding a lot of things like, and that usually means that we're concerned about the future. And we're trying like marketing people are trying to give us that same solid foundation saying, no, it's not scary. These are the same. Whether it's the same phone or tablet or computer designs you're used to, when we're optimistic, it's all like rockets and fins and Chrome and like going off into the future. But right now we're in this whole era of very much clinging to the past again. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:12:13):
I'm, you know, you're in Canada, so a Commonwealth country, you're gonna have to change your money too. Aren't you?

Rene Ritchie (00:12:19):
I found out that if the queen was actually like 24, 25 separate legal entities, like the queen of Canada, the separate legal entity, then the queen of all the other places and that we include some Canadian cousins in the Royal family that they don't. And they have some British cousins in the Royal family that we don't, it was WY big. Of course it was so deep.

Leo Laporte (00:12:35):
Yeah, of course it's hysterical. So one thing that did change normally the British people and I imagine the Canadians too but the British people would learn about the Queens passing on BBC. Right? In fact, there's a whole protocol that the BBC goes dark and then they play, God saved the queen, they interrupt all programming. They put the logo up on channel one, TWiTo and four, and then they all have the same message. Didn't happen this time. It broke on TWiTitter. It broke on TWiTitter. In fact, the first TWiTeet came from the Royal family TWiTitter account TWiTo minutes before the BBC had its TWiTeet. And I think that's, unfortunately this page is not showing the the TWiTeet, but I think that's kind of remarkable

Rene Ritchie (00:13:30):
This intermediation.

Leo Laporte (00:13:31):
Yeah. But, but what I wanna point out is that the Royal family embraced it and they said we better, you know, instead of waiting for the Beeb, we're gonna TWiTeet this. It shows you TWiTitter is still important. Well, yeah, maybe I don't know. It shows you the TWiTitter is still important, doesn't it?

Padre (00:13:48):
That story's amazing. But the, the not so amazing addition to that is the fact that TWiTitter did its regular thing. And in the hours before her death, there were so many fake announcements of her death. And I, you know, we expect that from TWiTitter, but it's sort of like when it happens to a major fi figure like the queen you almost kind of wanna say, what's wrong with you? Just stop. We, we know she's on her deathbed. Could you just let us let this unfold as it, as it's supposed to, rather than trying to, to get garner the attention of the death of a, of a cornerstone of an entire nation. But you know, you know, Leo, we had a similar thing that happens here where there's an official channel of how we announce, who gets picked for the next father general or who gets picked for the next Pope. And we've been having problems with this with people inside of the assemblies, TWiTeeting out before the official call goes out. So it it's hitting all parts of society and all sorts of ancient nations, ancient, ancient cultures, where you now have to deal with the fact that the data is gonna leak before you're ready to leak it. And it's, it's kind of interesting to see the Royal family was Ford looking.

Leo Laporte (00:15:04):
Yeah, they jumped on it. You just schooled me because I saw a TWiTeet this morning that I believed fr that it was supposedly Donald Trump's message on truth, social saying she had secretly knighted him <laugh> and, and you know what? I, I fell like this. I fell for it. Hook, line and sinker, and there's still people on TWiTitter falling for it. So it just shows you, yeah, this is a medium that is lightning quick, that the Royal family could beat the BBC by TWiTo minutes. But it's also lightning quick with equally lightning quick with this information. In fact, what, what is, what is the old Ben Franklin saying that the, the, the lie speeds around the world while a truth can, is putting on its pants or something? I don't, I can't remember. That's gotta be wrong. <Laugh> when you get the idea. No, that's right. <Laugh> 

Padre (00:15:55):
The why travels around the world while the truth

Leo Laporte (00:15:56):
Is still putting on his pants. Oh, okay. I thought it sounded made up, but you know, Nope. <Laugh> I believe Donald Trump got night at instant. Maybe it is. So it shows you what I know. Yeah. Well, as, as Abraham Lincoln, once famous, he said you can't believe everything you see on the internet. So I, I think we, we kinda have this really interesting dichotomy of yes, that's the fastest, best way to learn something, but it's also very prone to this information and it's easy to not citation needed. I mean, I consider myself sophisticated and I fell for it completely. So there you go.

Padre (00:16:32):
It's hard. Not to, it's hard, especially it's cause

Leo Laporte (00:16:34):
I wanted believe fake it's cuz I wanted to believe it.

Padre (00:16:36):
Isn't it? Well, a good fake will take something that could be true. Yeah. And stretch it a little bit. Yeah. And that's what that TWiTeet did. And in fact that the only reason why people were started to doubt it was because, and you picked up on this, it was so short and so concise. People were saying that can't

Leo Laporte (00:16:52):
Be Trump. He never wrote anything. That's

Padre (00:16:54):
That's too coherent. No.

Leo Laporte (00:16:55):
Well, and also as many people pointed out on TWiTitter, if that's true, then he's ineligible to run for president 20, 24 <laugh>. And so that would be a very self-defeating TWiTeet. Twititter, TWiTitter taken the, taken the headline away from the BBC on the one hand, I'm not surprised at the same. On the other hand, it's like, well, there's a tradition dashed, you know, do you think it's bad to broadcast things like the access? Did you, did any of you watch the accession ceremony? It was actually quite fascinating.

Padre (00:17:26):
No I did. I I've never seen one before. No one has. I see another

Leo Laporte (00:17:30):
Guess you're on the privy council and you'll never see one again. Probably mm-hmm <affirmative> well, maybe you will. I don't know. It depends how long Charles makes it. So one of the things that as I mentioned, he has to say, yeah, you can keep using the old seals until we get some new ones. I then the, by the way, the announcer told us. And, and by the way, he will have to, to destroy the old ones personally, with a hammer <laugh> so that they aren't misused, cuz they're used for official documents and so forth. And then they ask him a bunch of questions. He has to say, for instance, promise that he is not going to be mean to the church of Scotland, among other things and signs, signs his, they, by the way, all fountain pens, I was noticing. But I was trying to figure out who fountain pens, prince king now king Charles had his own fountain pen that he pulled out of a pocket and unscrew. But the other ones looked like those disposable pilot

Padre (00:18:19):

Leo Laporte (00:18:20):
Fountain pens. And I hope that's not, they were using, but they were all fountains.

Padre (00:18:24):
It has to be least a, a MOBL I mean, come on mean that's they

Leo Laporte (00:18:27):
Were not

Padre (00:18:27):
Roller ball, basic level.

Leo Laporte (00:18:28):
They were not roller balls. Yeah. Yeah, maybe he doesn't use a Swiss. He must. Although I, I Samal saw, Sam told me that they're replacing the very famous Royal limousines that were land rovers and you've see 'em all the time. Now they're replacing them with Audi, a eights. And I thought

Padre (00:18:49):
That's whoa,

Leo Laporte (00:18:50):
You couldn't do that. That's

Padre (00:18:51):
Mess power.

Leo Laporte (00:18:52):
You couldn't do that in the replace. The beast with something made in.

Padre (00:18:55):
Well the Germany, the button bergs are, are German

Leo Laporte (00:18:57):
Film. Oh, that's right. The Windsor are from Germany. Nevermind. You see it's that's how it starts. That's

Padre (00:19:04):
It? You should, but they're going, they'd have to up armor the Audi eights, right? I mean, oh

Leo Laporte (00:19:08):
Yeah. They have

Padre (00:19:09):
A special really way down. They

Leo Laporte (00:19:10):
Have special armored, a eight

Padre (00:19:12):
Shouldn't they be like a rolls or a, or a Bentley, right? Something of a beefier.

Leo Laporte (00:19:17):
You could armor a Bentley. It's a strange move

Padre (00:19:21):
Or an Aston Martin. An Aston. Yeah. James Bond must have several. He could borrow.

Leo Laporte (00:19:25):

Padre (00:19:25):
Yeah. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:19:26):
There you go. All I, I just, I thought we should start talking about nine 11 and QE TWiTo. And, and, and

Padre (00:19:37):
By the way, we have the same ceremony here. When a Pope passes, they destroy his ring with a hammer. Do

Leo Laporte (00:19:42):
They really? Because

Padre (00:19:43):
The hammer they do that's well,

Leo Laporte (00:19:45):
I, I imagine that there's a certain amount of overlap beTWiTeen the papacy and monarchy. I mean, it is a kind of monarchy. In fact, you have, even your obsession ceremonies are even more elaborate and more ceremonial. The car Cardinals have to come in. There's a conclave and they have to vote mm-hmm <affirmative> and I've. And I watched a movie, maybe it was a shoes of the fishermen. I don't remember where they showed the vote. They stitched the votes together with thread. Yes. And then that's when they burn and they, and if they don't have a agreement, it's white, is it white smoke or black smoke? If they don't have agreement? I don't

Padre (00:20:21):
Remember it. It's black smoke if they don't and it's white smoke if they do. And actually, so right there, you can actually see is the smoke, the middle towards the back. That's the smokes stack. Wow. So beTWiTeen the, the AOL palace and St. Peter's, there's actually a little green stack that you can see and that's where the smoke see

Leo Laporte (00:20:39):
It. Wow. There's a little stove and they throw that in it's it's it is a absolute medieval ceremony, but so is this a session? The other thing I liked, and I'm gonna start adopting this when they ask for the king, you know, say, all right, with your permission, we'll keep using those old seals, right. King. And he says approved. And that's all I has to say, approved <laugh>. And, and I move on the only negative. And I have to say, this is Charles had a script, memorize your lines, Charles, if you're gonna be king, you can't be reading the script. You just memorize the lines. It's not hard. Probably still emotionally Leo, maybe that's it I'll have to you're right? Yes. His mom is passed. My mom is close to the same age and in, and not in great shape. And I kind of, I, that was for me, part of this emotion I was feeling was a kind of a kinship, cuz I know this is coming soon for me too. Cause at the end of the day they can be Kings or everyone, but they all have families. Yeah. Yeah. Approved. So there

Allyn Malventano (00:21:40):
Some, there was some TWiTeet floating around about like, I don't know, there was some video of him asking some, somebody else to shoot to move some stuff. I just, this just before giving him such a heartache over

Leo Laporte (00:21:49):
There, they're give, so he's sitting down to sign some stuff and he has his own pen. And, but there are these basically Quill pens with jars of ink on the table and they're in his way. Let me see if I could find the TWiTeak cuz yeah. People are given a really hard time. Somebody's pulled the little clip of him, basically going get these out of here. I don't need them. Yeah, sure. And

Allyn Malventano (00:22:16):
Like, did they, did they expect him to like pick them up and carry them across the room? Like when he's just supposed signing stuff at a desk

Leo Laporte (00:22:22):
Completely appropriate. I don't think it was, it wasn't mean there's a guy there real has become a British man from a Monte Python, ski <laugh> <laugh> disapproved. I don't approve of these pens. Get them outta here.

Allyn Malventano (00:22:36):
Oh man.

Leo Laporte (00:22:37):
He wasn't that

Allyn Malventano (00:22:38):
Me. He's not like money Python with that accent.

Leo Laporte (00:22:39):
No, I know what's with these pens in what's oldish with these pens governor. Oh great. Getting cocked me now had to throw the governor. Dick van Dyke. Sorry. Sorry. As all Americans just don't do Welsh. Don't do Welsh. I don't know how to do Welsh. I love, I love the Welsh actors like Richard Burton, but I don't know how to do their accent. It's too perfect. Alright. Let's talk about tech. All right. Some people would prefer, we stayed with Elizabeth and the Pope, but I think we have to talk about apple.

Allyn Malventano (00:23:12):
Yeah. I thought there was just a little bit of tech news this

Leo Laporte (00:23:14):
Week. It's it's American royalty boys and girls. Actually. It is kind of did you see that? Johnny? So at all things, do you do this the afternoon of the apple event? Kara Swisher gets on stage. What a coup Tim cook, Johnny ive and Steve jobs, widow Rine to talk about Steve and with it to announce. And I think this is American royalty. The Steve jobs archive. I think it was Kara's last, right? Like this was her mic CRO her Farwell. She got them all together. Hell of a farewell. Decode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's decode. It's not D anymore code, no code conference code code. Yeah. It's no longer the wall street journal or Recode decode code conference. They have a lot. It's confusing a lot. So this idea of the Steve jobs archive, I guess, is to have a bunch of Steve videos, which of course they're all on YouTube. But the commencement address at Stanford being the best known some voiceovers, some oral history interviews and stuff. And it seems to be growing, which is, which is cool. And then it looks like they're also putting together some fellowships. They say we are building programs, fellowships, and collections and partnerships that reflect Steve's values and carry his sense of possibility forward. So this is our royalty, isn't it? The the startup founder, things that happened in the

Padre (00:24:49):
Garage, maybe loosely the businessman, the businessman is our, our royalty.

Leo Laporte (00:24:53):
Yeah. But when they generations, when Tim cook took over for Steve, it was very much like they had to break the seals and he had <laugh>, you know, he had to go through a whole Anno anointings. I mean, not exactly a getting crowned, but he had to kind of be, you know, okay, we got a guy he's gonna take over, you know him? Well,

Padre (00:25:14):
Well, there's something about a fast growing startup or a reinvigorated company that brings back its founder that it cannot become the company. It needs to be until the founder is gone. Because as long as the founder is still around and kicking, there's always gonna be this well, was this what the company was supposed to be? Was this the regional direction? Is this where they're supposed to be going? Once the founder's gone, an organization has the freedom to sort of say, okay, we know what we were, what do we want to be? And I think when they brought in cook, that's what they actually did. They sat down and they said, Steve jobs did a lot of good things. These are the things he didn't do. Great. These are the things that we should be doing. And these are the things that we want to continue doing from his, his tenure. But the apple that we have now is very different from the apple we had when jobs was still around.

Leo Laporte (00:26:03):
I I've seen a number of articles though, suggesting that apple is the new church, that apple stores are the new cathedrals. Here's Ben Parr's article from Inc. From some time ago, the church of apple is a religion because we made it one. No company has the power. Apple has over consumers and journalists fair. It's a nice article. <Laugh> it makes a nice headline. <Laugh> yeah. Got some, got some attention. I'm sure. Yeah. it, it does sometimes feel like those are religious battles. When you say, oh, I'm an iPhone user. Oh, I'm an Android user. I'm a blue bubble. I'm a green bubble. We like that. Li like, we

Rene Ritchie (00:26:42):
Love, love that. Like Coke versus Pepsi, Nintendo versus Xbox. Yeah. Like you go like, and we had this with Rockefellers and like with like just businesses going back for, for a century, I think, you know Padre is right. Like we, we anoint business people as our defacto royalty.

Leo Laporte (00:27:00):

Allyn Malventano (00:27:02):

Rene Ritchie (00:27:02):
Think just happens to be the, the age, the techno crap right now.

Allyn Malventano (00:27:06):
Cook might have been still flames. You're looking at the other day cuz wasn't there some story about what was it a reporter asked him, Hey, my grandmother can't

Leo Laporte (00:27:13):
Oh Lord, this is also at the code conference. In fact, I think it was at the end, after the interview, he's taking questions and he gets asked about this blue bubble green bubble thing.

Allyn Malventano (00:27:26):

Leo Laporte (00:27:27):
And he his, let me see if I can find this.

Allyn Malventano (00:27:31):
Maybe his response could have been a little bit better. It wasn't is how I would say it

Leo Laporte (00:27:35):
<Laugh> yeah. It wasn't exactly diplomatic. So a journalist asked

Rene Ritchie (00:27:42):
Great. Given our current culture of regulations.

Leo Laporte (00:27:44):
Yes. The journalist asked cook how apple could improve communication beTWiTeen the iPhone and Android users. Koch said he didn't feel apple users were asking, quote, asking that we put a lot of energy into that. I wish there's video of this somewhere after the reporter said, well, I can't send certain videos to my mom cuz she has an Android. Tim joked. Well by your mom, an iPhone.

Allyn Malventano (00:28:07):

Leo Laporte (00:28:08):
That isn't the an, that is not a,

Rene Ritchie (00:28:09):
The first answer was the first answer was fine. And the, the second answer could be yes, you can. There's a variety of ways and mediums through which you can exchange full resolution video and any device. But that's not how that went. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:21):
And I think it annoyed a lot's

Allyn Malventano (00:28:22):
Like you're holding it wrong.

Leo Laporte (00:28:23):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. <Laugh>

Allyn Malventano (00:28:27):

Leo Laporte (00:28:27):

Padre (00:28:28):
About as helpful as every time I, I mention something that I don't like about what windows is doing and I always get 30 different comments saying just buy a Mac. I'm like, no,

Leo Laporte (00:28:36):
<Laugh> make windows better. No, that's not what I'm asking. Yeah. Yeah. Windows, are you saying there's are you saying love it or leave it right? They're saying that I guess. Yeah. Anyway, apple did announce and I'm not actually, I'd be very curious what you all think. Cuz when I do these apple events, as we did Andy and NACO and I did the, you know, we have the stream going on, we know the stream is an infomercial. So I consider it kind of our job to provide context, critique approval if it merits. But there is a reality distortion field. Apple is so good at marketing. It just makes you want everything.

Rene Ritchie (00:29:16):
What did you want? Leo? I bought

Leo Laporte (00:29:18):
It. You want, after you I bought it all. I bought all three. Oh did you? Oh yeah, of course I

Rene Ritchie (00:29:21):
Did. What'd you get

Leo Laporte (00:29:23):
So, oh I'm it's embarrassing.

Rene Ritchie (00:29:27):
Did you get the ultra

Allyn Malventano (00:29:28):
Watch to your watch? Didn't you? Yeah. You got the, you got watch.

Leo Laporte (00:29:30):
I got, I got the watch. Not only did I get the ultra watch the watch for extreme athletes who can dive a hundred meters then climb Mount ki Majaro and then bicycle the race they have watch. Yeah, I got the Uhhuh. I got the watch. Not only did I get that, I got the band that you can stretch to fit over your wetsuit when you're diving. Yes.

Allyn Malventano (00:29:50):
<Laugh> just in case, just

Leo Laporte (00:29:52):

Allyn Malventano (00:29:52):
Case, just in case that happens

Leo Laporte (00:29:53):
Someday. I take up scuba, look,

Padre (00:29:55):
I watch might entice you to do those things. See? So that's the, I got for the, that feature. It's good. I, I got that too because Georgia dives and I know she's gonna try to steal it anyway. So I figured it might as well be useful for her when she does take,

Leo Laporte (00:30:09):
I have, I have, I'm not certified, but I have scuba dived a few times. I did it on the great barrier reef, which was a experience of a lifetime. And so maybe, but actually at my age, I think it's be death defying act. I don't it's aspirational. Yeah. <laugh> it's an aspirational watch, but it's kind of cool. And I think there is a certain coolness to wearing this giant honking titanium beast on your wrist. It's the same reason people drive four by fours in downtown San Francisco. It's you know it's <laugh> you look good doing it?

Padre (00:30:38):
No, that, that might be a different thing now

Leo Laporte (00:30:40):
<Laugh> oh, okay. It's all. <Laugh> all.

Padre (00:30:44):
So you can drive over other cars. Yeah,

Padre (00:30:47):
No, no, actually here here's a question. I mean, I, I get what you say about the apple distortion field. There. They are exceptionally good at convincing people that they know what you need which is a skill that they've had for the last 20 years. But I don't think they're the best at it anymore. I mean, if you, if you are gonna make the argument that apple has sort of become the new religion, the counter religion is Tesla and Elon Musk has now the most rabid fans. It used to be apple, but I, I, I don't know. It feels like it's shifting over he's now the person that people worship, is it there?

Leo Laporte (00:31:19):
Lord of the memes? Is it there more because he's under attack. So they need to be more on the defense.

Padre (00:31:26):
I, I mean, even when he is not under attack, they're out there shilling for him. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:31:31):

Padre (00:31:31):
Completely you, I mean, it's, it's almost a devotion.

Allyn Malventano (00:31:35):
I own TWiTo of those cars and I still can't figure that out. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:31:38):
I just don't.

Padre (00:31:39):

Allyn Malventano (00:31:40):
Just don't get it. It's it's just like too far. Like I see people going, you know, and I mean I've had issues with them also. And it's like, if there's even a flip side to that, where when you have issues with it and you bring them up, then all those rapid crazy fans trying to like, apologize. You're

Padre (00:31:56):
A hater, you're a hater. Oh

Allyn Malventano (00:31:57):
Yeah. Like suddenly I'm a hater. Like I own TWiTo of them. Are you kidding me? Like clearly I'm not a hater. I just, I, I have, when,

Padre (00:32:03):
When Leo and Lisa had issues with their ex with the, their Tesla ex, they got so much hate. If it, it was in the chat room, it was on TWiTitter. It's like, oh, you're just trying to hate on El. It's like, no, I have a legitimate problem with something that I've bought.

Leo Laporte (00:32:18):
Oh, and I get Tesla. I must say, I get even more hate. Now when I comment on Elon and his really ridiculous attempt to purchase TWiTitter and now attempt to get out of it, which we will talk about later. Right. If I say anything, that's not positive, I get more hate than, than ever. Yep. Yep. So I think when you're, when your guy, there was a it's sports, when you, your team is under attack, you step up to defend.

Rene Ritchie (00:32:43):
There was a brief break when all those people went to crypto and NFTs, but now they're all back

Leo Laporte (00:32:47):
True. <Laugh> that didn't work out too.

Padre (00:32:50):
Well, my block bot it, it actually, it's like a little Zen Aven diagram. If you are crypto, you're fine. If you're Elon Musk, you're fine. If you're a conservative voice, you're fine. But if you're all three of those, it's

Leo Laporte (00:33:01):
An auto block.

Padre (00:33:02):
It just, it just kicks you right out and they identify themselves. So it's like, it's very easy.

Leo Laporte (00:33:07):
Yeah. Do you, do you use a, do you have a regular expression par that looks at their profile? Yeah. Okay. That's

Padre (00:33:14):
Interesting. Looks at profile. It does content analysis from from what they've actually posted. It looks at who they're following and who's following them. Wow. and like things like, so you're

Leo Laporte (00:33:24):
Joking. You're not, you actually have code, that's doing this,

Padre (00:33:26):

Leo Laporte (00:33:27):

Padre (00:33:29):
24 7.

Leo Laporte (00:33:29):

Padre (00:33:31):
<Laugh> because my TWiTitter feed is so much more useful when just all the low quality comments and, and all the spam accounts get Xed out. I don't ever see any of that stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:33:43):
Is it, is it in, what is it written in

Padre (00:33:46):
Python? So the main, the main part is written in Python.

Leo Laporte (00:33:50):

Padre (00:33:51):
Wow. Right. And then I use a Amazon contextual their, their service to do the context analysis.

Leo Laporte (00:33:58):
Oh, no kidding. Well, this is pretty sophisticated. Yeah. And then it uses, does TWiTitter have an API for follow and unfollow or do you have to do it manual?

Padre (00:34:06):
They do. No. So yeah, you, I can't just use the pure API because I hit the limit really fast. Wow. so I actually use a scraper for most of the context stuff. And then I only hit the API for the actual functions of mute block. Did a

Leo Laporte (00:34:21):
Report, did this really step up when you set up the Vatican Minecraft server and you got a lot of attention for that? Was that when it really started getting problematic?

Padre (00:34:29):
No. Believe it or not. I had to build this thing when I was at TWiTit that's. So it came over from TWiTI. Oh the, the hate that we were getting, like when we got swatted, that's why I started writing this. And it was just a little TWiTeak here and there to get to what I have now.

Leo Laporte (00:34:44):
Wow. I gotta get to work. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:34:49):
I thought you were feuding with the dream SMP, but no it's way,

Leo Laporte (00:34:52):
Way longer than that. Wow. Yeah. That's wild. So let's, we'll go through the, the various products. Let's start with the iPhone 14, 14 plus 14 pro 14 pro max as usual, I would say with apple, these are incremental improvements over the previous years phones. Right. Is there anything just go, wow, this is so much better. You have to get it Renee.

Rene Ritchie (00:35:21):
I mean, so I think this's been true for years. And I think apple has known this for years is that very few people upgrade year over year. Like if you're on an annual upgrade program and it just continues your subscription, that's a big exception. And they're always gonna be people who are just, they have like a ton of money and they really like phones and they're gonna buy the new phone every year. But for the vast majority of people they're on beTWiTeen 2, 3, 4, even five year cycles. And they know that. So the goal is just to over three to four years to provide enough value that if you're going from like this year, probably an iPhone eight or an iPhone 10, maybe even an iPhone 10 S that it's a significant upgrade for you. I, I think that like TWiTitter and YouTube are obsessed with only ever talking about how it compares to the last year. And that has always only been like maybe five to 10% of, of the buying populace.

Leo Laporte (00:36:06):
Do you agree, Alan? You can recuse yourself if you not an iPhone user. No,

Allyn Malventano (00:36:13):
No, no. I, I mean, I'm, I'm an iPhone user. The kind of the takeaway I took from just, I mean, I watched their thing because of course who doesn't when they do it. I mean, I think the satellite thing is cool. Yeah. I'm never gonna use it. Right. But

Leo Laporte (00:36:28):
You don't even think that's it. It's cool. So is the

Rene Ritchie (00:36:31):
Crash, you don't need it for his excursions, with his new watch.

Leo Laporte (00:36:33):
Once I've got my watch, I will be watch

Rene Ritchie (00:36:36):
You'll be on the mountain,

Allyn Malventano (00:36:37):
But I mean, it's, it's cool to me because like, I mean, I spent a lot of years on submarines and it was kind like there was the satellite phone that they had just in case. Right. And it was like, you had to go up and like ask to use it. If there was, would

Leo Laporte (00:36:49):
You have to be on the surface to do it? You'd have to search.

Allyn Malventano (00:36:52):
Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they, there was some way to sort of hook the antenna up to one of the masks. So you could sort of get away with, stick it out, poking, poking something outta the water submarine and, you know, yeah. Can

Padre (00:37:04):
I ask a question? So on satellite, I mean, on submarines, there's gotta be some sort of policy about signal intelligence of, of cream and having cell phones that can ping. Right. I mean, you can't have that.

Leo Laporte (00:37:16):

Allyn Malventano (00:37:16):
Yeah. And that is true. But the thing is you wouldn't be to use the iPhone thing. Like if somebody has an iPhone 14 on a submarine, like you literally have to be like fully surface and then the person would have to get out of the submarine right. On

Leo Laporte (00:37:30):
Deck. Right. Because you're in a big Fairday cage. Really?

Allyn Malventano (00:37:33):
Yeah. Basically that's not gonna work inside. Yeah. It's

Rene Ritchie (00:37:36):
Just, but if the alarm goes off, wouldn't Sean Connery. Hear you.

Leo Laporte (00:37:38):
<Laugh> <laugh> just one ping. Just one, one ping, one ping. Only one ping only. Yeah, but that's pretty mean actually,

Allyn Malventano (00:37:49):
But that is true that you know, there is a big signal intelligence thing. Right. you know, technology did advance like even while I was on the submarine, which was over almost TWiTo decades ago now, man, that's dating. Totally talk about dating ourselves from earlier. Wow. Okay.

Padre (00:38:05):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Allyn Malventano (00:38:06):
But you know, they advanced to the point where there was like a, a satellite like a, like a gyro stabilized, little mini dish built into the top of one of the masks that they could pop up and sort of do a bidirectional communication, but that's only because it was a directional thing. And so that you wouldn't be able to sort of triangulate, you know, where that communication was coming from. And they would only do it very rarely, you know, and they wouldn't do it while the submarine, what was called alert, which is there's some window of time out of when the submarine's out, which is where, where they're the one that can be called to launch the missiles if they have to. And so in that window, there's literally nothing happens. They're just, they're a ghost basically for several weeks, right? Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:38:46):
I, I don't see some crews

Padre (00:38:48):
Doing what you're seeing from troops in Ukraine and Russia where they're Instagramming themselves in front of, of landmarks. That's, that's probably not gonna fly with with sub command.

Allyn Malventano (00:38:57):
Right. And, and honestly, even if the technology was possible, even if you made, you know, the iPhone 21 can now do it from inside the hole of a submarine or whatever, <laugh> the crew has enough discipline to where they they're, they're not doing that cuz they know it's, you know, everybody's life is on the line when you start exactly. You know, somebody's live submarine is

Rene Ritchie (00:39:18):
Every day. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (00:39:19):
Live, live blogging. But this launch from the submarine <laugh>,

Leo Laporte (00:39:22):
It's actually fascinating. War has changed even in this technology era. One of the things people were wondering is why didn't the Russians immediately take out internet and cell service in Ukraine? I mean, that's, you know, if you're gonna attack a country, the first thing you could wanna do, if you can, besides destroying their transportation neTWiTork is destroy their communications neTWiTork. And that

Allyn Malventano (00:39:43):
Was so that was so crazy, wasn't it like right at the beginning when all the Ukraine stuff started going on, there was less Ukrainian girl just like did a to, or an I, or something about how to start up the armored vehicle that was just abandoned by the Russians. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:39:59):
We've seen people with tractors like pulling aircraft carriers that they just like taken over, like off, down the

Leo Laporte (00:40:06):
<Laugh>. So the, the thinking is according to the center for strategic and international studies that they don't want to, because a, we can, it's a great way to spy on people because if we, if we, we can eavesdrop on the phone, calls, the emails, get the geolocation data from the cell towers, that's useful. Plus they're using it <laugh> cuz it's, you know, they're in Ukraine, so the Russian forces need to use it. And if they ever win in Ukraine, of course they don't want to destroy infrastructure too much infrastructure. Although that seems to be out the window. 

Allyn Malventano (00:40:39):

Leo Laporte (00:40:41):
It's I mean, yeah. When you, you see people Instagramming from the war zone, it's just crazy. Well

Padre (00:40:48):

Rene Ritchie (00:40:49):
Really interesting because when

Padre (00:40:50):
It was a huge lack in the Russian army, I mean, way more than any Intel group ever thought that they didn't come, they, they went into a hostile country without their own complete communications infrastructure. Right? Yeah. That that's unheard of that. That's just something you would never expect a major world power to do. And yet they did

Leo Laporte (00:41:08):
It. Yep.

Allyn Malventano (00:41:09):
And then on, and then on top of that, they had, you know, presumably they already had this tech from before, but they would roll in their GPS jamming equipment jam GPS for the entire region. But then they would all get lost themselves. <Laugh> to figure out where

Leo Laporte (00:41:22):
They were going. In fact, it's a bad idea cuz the locals know how to get around. You're the ones who need the GPS.

Allyn Malventano (00:41:29):

Rene Ritchie (00:41:30):
It's really interesting too, because you know, a few decades ago, cable news was changed forever by the OJ Simpson trial and by the Gulf war. And now social media is being changed forever by the Amber, her trial and by the Ukraine war. And it just seems like there's always these locusts of coverage where it shifts to a completely new medium and then everything gets rapidly repackaged around those mediums.

Leo Laporte (00:41:51):
Well, and that's why I thought it was really even the transition from queen Elizabeth to king Charles was interesting because even an ancient tradition, like this is highly influenced. They put it on TWiTitter before they put it up on the palace gates. You know, I mean that's, to me, it is, it's fascinating how we've the world has changed and like the frog in the, in the pot, we just it's happening without us knowing it's just kind of gradually, do you imagine the Vatican would change? Probably not. Right. This is somewhere where tradition is so much a part of it. They, they're not, they're gonna still stitch together the votes and put 'em in an stove and burn 'em and all, no,

Padre (00:42:33):
They they'll keep doing that, but you do see change. And, and I I'm, if your producer could, could call it up. There's a great side by side showing the, the night that Benedict became Pope and the night that Francis became Pope and on the night that Benedict came, became Pope, you had appeal a lot of people in front of St. Peter's holding candles. The night that Francis became Pope, everyone was holding a phone. Wow. You said nothing, but I see, see screens. And it's like, yeah. You know, wow. Even if the traditions stayed the same, the way that people are consuming it or remembering it is changing. And that was the clearest sign for me. Like, yeah. You know, you have to, you have to do this. If you're not thinking about optics over social media, it means you're not thinking about optics period.

Leo Laporte (00:43:14):
You know what you're right. When I was at the Motley crew concert, when Tommy Lee said, bring up the lights, everybody just brought out their smartphones and turned on the flashlight. Yeah. I don't you're abso the whole world is changing. I've told this story before, but I love it. The Soviet union was monitoring. I, this is how long ago was monitoring the coming and going of people at the Pentagon. And they noticed that every day around noon, a lot of high ranking officers would disappear into this building. <Laugh> you know where I'm going with us, right? Oh

Padre (00:43:53):

Leo Laporte (00:43:53):
Oh yeah. It, it was a hot dog stand in the center of the Pentagon. And it almost got Ned because they thought, well, the, it was said the Soviet union had at least TWiTo nuclear missiles. It's bunk. Yeah. Pointed at it at all times. And this was from satellite, not from cell phones obviously, but <laugh> okay at the hot hotdog, standing at the hotdog stand.

Rene Ritchie (00:44:17):
That's how you, I hate to say, to fight back.

Leo Laporte (00:44:19):
Yeah. I hate to say this, but if you hit the hot dog, stand the rest of the Pentagon's going, it just crumbles. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:44:25):
An army moves on their stomach.

Leo Laporte (00:44:27):
<Laugh> you know,

Padre (00:44:27):
I, I went there, I went there in 2009 and the hot dog stand was gone.

Leo Laporte (00:44:33):
Yeah. They took it out, not the Russians. Oh, the Pentagon <laugh> <laugh> it shuttered in 2006. I'm sorry to say probably not because of any threat from the Soviet union or the Russians. But still it's

Rene Ritchie (00:44:50):
Well, defended

Leo Laporte (00:44:51):
Hotdog stand. Yeah. In the United States, probably they called it cafe, ground zero <laugh> 

Padre (00:44:59):
You know, well China has, China has a story like that from Pokemon go. They had to forbid their personnel from playing Pokemon go. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:45:06):
Wow. Because wow.

Padre (00:45:06):
They, you could see patterns of people walking around these dark Uhhuh, like on the map areas and they figured out, oh, these are guards trying to get their kilometers in while they're doing their guard duty. Wow. It's like, oh yeah. So that's a, that's a Chinese government facilities. Fantastic.

Leo Laporte (00:45:22):
I wanna take a little break cuz we, you know, we've been talking a lot and gotta get a commercial in, but I do wanna come back and talk about this iPhone, both Ben Thompson and Jason Snell have actually made some really interesting points about this new iPhone. We'll get to that in just a little bit. It's so great to see you again, Renee Richie now creative liaison at YouTube, but still you're still doing the channel, right? You still do stuff at

Rene Ritchie (00:45:46):
Doing one video a week

Leo Laporte (00:45:47):
Because that's all you have time for now.

Rene Ritchie (00:45:50):
Yes. I used to do like three to four videos a week. Now I'm doing one a week, but I just put up this week's video and it's all about the outrage over EIMS which we could talk about today. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:45:58):
Yes. That's actually talk about the courage port. Now it's the courage tray. We will definitely talk about that. Just, is this your advice to creators, to don't don't burn yourself out doing, trying to do too many videos a week.

Rene Ritchie (00:46:12):
I mean, so the truth is like you wanna get to a point and I'm, I'm just repeating something that Todd bore, who's a director of discovery at YouTube. Really, really nice guy said that you wanna get to a point where you're increasing the value of your video. So it's not the quantity that you're making, but the quality that you're making and that those videos attract enough audience, enough views that you don't have to like continually run on a hamster wheel.

Leo Laporte (00:46:30):
Oh, I like it. Mark has Brownley does that. He doesn't put out so many videos, but he focuses on the quality of it.

Rene Ritchie (00:46:37):
Mark Rover one a month.

Leo Laporte (00:46:38):
Mark Rover. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Rover. His stuff is so good. He's the NASA scientist who makes the glitter bombs. And

Rene Ritchie (00:46:45):
We finally found out what he did at apple.

Leo Laporte (00:46:47):
Oh, what did he do at

Rene Ritchie (00:46:48):
Apple? He was on the AR project.

Leo Laporte (00:46:51):
You're kidding. No. Yeah. He was

Rene Ritchie (00:46:54):
Working on the, the reality headset.

Leo Laporte (00:46:56):
Not, not anymore.

Rene Ritchie (00:46:57):
No, because I, his YouTube channel, I think outgrew with what apple was comfortable with. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:47:03):
That just shows you, you could do one a month and you don't have to, you don't have to work at apple anymore. That's pretty, pretty darn. And

Rene Ritchie (00:47:10):
Then you hold, you host Jimmy. Jimmy, was it not Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy? 

Leo Laporte (00:47:14):
Kimel Jimmy.

Rene Ritchie (00:47:15):
Jimmy Kimel yeah. You host Jimmy Kimel. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:47:17):
That's great. Yeah. nice Alan. Malano no longer at Intel, but still Mr. SSD now for the spinoff solid dime mostly drives or memory or it's NAND. Right?

Allyn Malventano (00:47:34):
I mean, when I was at Intel, it dealt a little bit more with memory. Right. I would deal with theta stuff as well. Which we can talk about it a little bit

Leo Laporte (00:47:41):
Later. Yeah. Later that's the late lamented Optain yeah,

Allyn Malventano (00:47:44):
Yeah. But now it's, it's just the NAND slash SSD technologies. Nice. Be it for Dyme or for SK. Heeks like, we're all, you know, we're all together now on data center and client sites. Do

Leo Laporte (00:47:59):
You think

Allyn Malventano (00:48:00):
Anything basically, anything SD

Leo Laporte (00:48:01):
Spinning hard drives are are gonna aim at the same garbage dump is VHS tapes and cassettes or I

Allyn Malventano (00:48:09):
Don't know. I mean, cost per gig is still,

Leo Laporte (00:48:12):
It's amazing. Isn't it? Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (00:48:14):
The cost per gig's still winning on the hard drive side. If you just need a bunch of mass storage

Leo Laporte (00:48:18):
Perfect. For my NA your way to go. I wouldn't wanna put an SSD in my NAS, although you can

Allyn Malventano (00:48:23):
I mean you can, but it's just not cost effective right now. Right, right, right, right.

Leo Laporte (00:48:28):
Don't let me forget to ask you about octane before the show's over. Cause I do want to, but not right now. Also father Robert Ballas there, the digital Jesuit and you know, it's great to see you again. How much longer before you come home, please come back, come.

Padre (00:48:45):
Back's like, great. Come back to us. Robert,

Leo Laporte (00:48:47):
Come back

Padre (00:48:48):
To us. Every, every time I meet with father general, I always ask the question. I said, so, you know, it's been one year, it's been TWiTo years. It's not been five years. Yeah. Maybe next year is a good time for me to go back to the states. And he always has the same answer. He says, you should learn more Italian.

Leo Laporte (00:49:05):

Padre (00:49:07):
It's not, it's not a good answer either. You're gonna

Leo Laporte (00:49:10):
Be, but oh, but maybe you're going to New Jersey. It's possible

Padre (00:49:13):
Mashed potato and the disc actually, he found the, the photo from us. So that's 2005 versus 2013. Let me, so in 2005, you've

Leo Laporte (00:49:22):
A blow up version of this here. Let's see if I

Padre (00:49:24):
Get it. It's it's oh, look, I

Allyn Malventano (00:49:26):
See's amazing. I see Leo. I see Leo holding.

Leo Laporte (00:49:28):
Oh, that's me recording it. Yes. <laugh> look at, look at all the it's not it's the camera phones. I have to say. You can't go anywhere anymore. Everybody's recording all the time. All

Padre (00:49:42):
The time. I love the person holding up the iPad though. The tablet to take a picture. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:49:46):
I wanna see the next time I wanna see what it is. That's interesting. Yeah. Look at all the camera phones. Wow.

Padre (00:49:52):
Well, Leo, the next time it's all gonna be Google glass, right?

Leo Laporte (00:49:55):

Allyn Malventano (00:49:56):
Yep. Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:49:56):
You'll be wearing your apple AR headset.

Padre (00:49:59):
<Laugh> my, my my snap goggles, whatever they call those things. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (00:50:04):
They'll just place your retina is what, something

Leo Laporte (00:50:06):
That is an amazing picture. That is incredible. Yeah. It's true. I mean, every concert I go to now, I have to kind of like get the phones the way it's kinda put your phones down. It's like, watch

Padre (00:50:16):
Your phones down, kids switch

Leo Laporte (00:50:17):
Your phones down. There's a guy playing here. The, the worst ones. And I didn't see, I see less of this now than I used to, but it used to be, everybody would do a selfie. Like they'd turn around, turn their back to the singer and take a picture so that, Hey, you know where I am. Look at that. Look at that right behind me wearing their slash hat anymore where you can't see over them any. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. I, I know I'm an old man shouting at the clads. Our show today brought to you buy Melissa. Did you know if you're in business that poor quality data can cost you big time, I'm talking your address. List your customer supplier list your contact information on average, big organizations in small lose 15 million because of poor quality data. And of course the longer it stays in your system, the worse it gets, the mortal cost you to ensure your business is successful.

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Your customer information has to be accurate. And that's why you go to Melissa. They are the address experts, the leading provider of global data quality and address management solutions. It's, it's not just sending a bill or a catalog to the wrong address. It's calling somebody by the wrong name. You know, you've got a customer service line and somebody calls in and you call 'em by the wrong name or say, oh, you live in Idaho. No, I live in Florida. You're just making a customer. That's already upset, more upset, more frustrated. And there's another reason why you want good quality data authentication verification. You may have compliance requirements around those very important things. And you certainly want to for security, Melissa recently partnered with ID P launch something brand new Melissa ID. This is seamless contact verification and they do it in real time. Melissa ID is a unique, fully customizable out of the box SAS solution.

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Leo Laporte (00:53:20):
Appends you can complete customer records. You can add missing names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses. And of course they treat your data like the gold that it is Melissa undergoes, independent security audits to be SOC TWiTo HIPAA and GDPR compliant. They can also get rid of duplicate information. If you're sending four catalogs of the same address, you're wasting money Melissa's data matching will eliminate clutter and duplicates increasing the accuracy of the database, reducing postage and mailing costs. So you got batch address cleansing, you've got identity verification. They have geocoding that can convert addresses into latitude and longitude automatically. They can verify email addresses remove up to 95% of bad email addresses from your database. They even have an app on iOS and Android. It's called lookups, lets you do onesy TWiTo search addresses names and more at your fingertips. So make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Try Melissa's APIs in the developer portal. It's easy to log on, sign up and start playing in the API sandbox. 24 7 gets started today with 1000 records cleaned for free And we thank him so much for supporting this week in tech. You do the same dear listener, dear viewer, when you use that address. So make sure you do

Leo Laporte (00:54:47):
Okay. So I, you know, the satellite, thing's interesting. I don't know how we're gonna test it. But I think if, if you know, it's a, it's a great thing to have. T-Mobile announced something similar with Starlink the week before knowing apple was probably was about to announce this. We now know that apple will be partnering with global star. Partnerings even more really because they say they'll pay for 95% of the cost associated with additional launches. That global star is gonna have to make, to put satellites up to do this service. So Apple's getting in the satellite business in effect

Padre (00:55:19):
Too many people are getting into the satellite business. There's

Leo Laporte (00:55:22):
I agree

Padre (00:55:23):
Amount of space. I agree around the planet.

Leo Laporte (00:55:26):
We talked about this with rod pile today on the radio show everybody's launching satellites in fact so much so that in the next Elon Musk Starlink launch is there's another satellite company piggybacking on that <laugh> and the thing is, it's all overlapping, right? It's like we got four different companies doing the same thing. And of course each of them has to have their own satellite. This is so much of a problem. The FCC announced this week that they're trying to establish a rule, requiring people to get their old satellites out of the sky. They say we wanna make it. So you have five years to either deorbit it or launch it in the space or something because they're gonna just jam the place up,

Padre (00:56:11):
Which is a good idea. But it's a non-starter because they place the onus on the country. Yeah. Responsible for the, not the make, not the company. Yeah. So unless every country starts putting down a huge bond for every satellite, a company launches into space, they're gonna get to a point where a company has gone out of business. And now they're stuck with a $10 billion bill to deorbit a bunch of satellites.

Leo Laporte (00:56:33):
I, I, I know space is big <laugh> we know that even it's bigly orbital space is bigly big, but if it seems like everybody in their brothers be

Rene Ritchie (00:56:44):
Thousands, there's the wrong way to make a Dyson sphere people. Could we just have a, we take a break. This is not what they

Leo Laporte (00:56:50):
Meant crazy. But you know, we'll see ads in a year from apple, from somebody who was on a mountain, broke their toe and they couldn't get help and they got satellite help.

Rene Ritchie (00:57:01):
It's it could be me to be honest with you. <Laugh> okay. Okay. Me, my new watch.

Leo Laporte (00:57:06):
I mean, I think I would want that and I think the crash detection's interesting, both the watch and the phone have more accelerometers better accelerometers and, and also some sort of impact detection thing. Right? What

Rene Ritchie (00:57:22):
They algorithms in case you come to a sudden Aral stop

Leo Laporte (00:57:26):

Rene Ritchie (00:57:28):
It's that coupled

Leo Laporte (00:57:29):
A little west wing reference there. I got it. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (00:57:32):
Has a higher grated sensor coupled with the new algorithms, right?

Leo Laporte (00:57:35):
Yes. Yeah. But what did they say? They say, I, I missed it, but is, is some huge amount of GS like

Allyn Malventano (00:57:41):
Yeah. 2 56, 200.

Leo Laporte (00:57:44):

Rene Ritchie (00:57:44):
That okay if you get in a crash,

Padre (00:57:46):
It's your watch. If your watch experiences 256 GS you're dead. <Laugh> it's like, there's no other

Rene Ritchie (00:57:53):
Way for you to Ugh. <Laugh> but also the pressure, because it registers the airbag going off by the change in the bar pressure. It

Leo Laporte (00:58:01):
Does. That's part of it, right?

Allyn Malventano (00:58:03):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:58:04):
So what they're obviously doing is using machine learning, they showed a bunch of crashes and they use machine learning. Well, what is it like? What is it? What, what is the change in, in the environment when you hit something really, really hard and let's some

Rene Ritchie (00:58:19):
Of them stable coin crashes or is that

Leo Laporte (00:58:20):
Different made a model and then it will call emergency services. I know it's good for the ads. In fact, apple even started the event with a big ad for this stuff.

Allyn Malventano (00:58:31):
I like how the phone is in pristine condition while the car is out, just being destroyed around it.

Leo Laporte (00:58:37):
One of, one of my family members shall not be remember name named, got a crash. She was fine. The only problem was their phone flying out the window

Rene Ritchie (00:58:46):

Leo Laporte (00:58:48):
And we never found it.

Rene Ritchie (00:58:50):
So, so yeah, I think she shall not be named, but we'll give you enough demographic data to make a yeah, I

Leo Laporte (00:58:56):
Think, well, she doesn't have a phone. Let's put it that way. 256 GS holy come, moly. Alright, so this is, I mean, this is clearly apple doubling down on what Tim cook has always said, which is that the, our next big business is gonna be health. It's gonna be protecting you. And

Rene Ritchie (00:59:14):
I think

Leo Laporte (00:59:14):
This is health and safety is a very nice place for them to be in. You know, they're already kind of owning the privacy space, whether it's marketing only, or for real, they clearly own it. Now they're gonna own this health and safety space. I think that's, you're gonna, it's they're gonna get to the point where people are gonna feel like Apple's taken care of them and

Rene Ritchie (00:59:32):
It's non contentious. Like it's not something that people are gonna yell or screen or complain about is like they might some other areas of business.

Leo Laporte (00:59:39):
They, we had seen a rumor that they were gonna have temperature sensors, but what we didn't know is how much they were gonna focus that on women, which again, brilliant. Very smart. Yeah. Although

Allyn Malventano (00:59:53):
The marketing move is definitely smart. What

Leo Laporte (00:59:55):
Did, what did they call it? Retroactive. Ovulation

Padre (01:00:01):
Sounds very scifi.

Leo Laporte (01:00:02):
<Laugh> it's 

Allyn Malventano (01:00:06):
It cycle tracking via temperature changes.

Leo Laporte (01:00:08):
Yeah. But they won't tell

Padre (01:00:10):
Retroactive ovulation. Is that like an Elon Musk thing? It sounds like biggest

Allyn Malventano (01:00:16):
Temperature changes happen like, like after, or is that it's more about popular the cycle

Leo Laporte (01:00:21):
Or they don't know your exact temperature, but they know how it's going up or down. It's all, it's a relative relative trends. Yeah. Relative temperature. We knew that. In fact, I have an aura ring that does the, the same thing, but I think it's very smart of them to focus on women's health for this thing. Because neither Fitbit nor Samsung, nor the aura talk at all about cycle tracking, apple, that was the number one bullet point. They spent a lot of time talking about that. And then this this thing about retroactive ovulation, I think they're trying to say, we can't tell you ahead of time. <Laugh> when we could tell you a afterwards or I don't know. I'll

Padre (01:01:04):
Have to let this. This was big. Yeah. This was big at CES. About three years ago, there was a company I think, called comper that was selling devices that would do this. They would actually do Avi specifically ovulation tracking. And actually I think apple bought them. Didn't they?

Leo Laporte (01:01:20):
Ah, well, there you go. That was

Padre (01:01:22):
That might've been where they got the tech. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:01:27):
Good on you. Apple, I guess is all I can say. I it's so it's more than just period tracking. I mean, it gives you period predictions, a retroactive notification about your ovulation date, which, you know, people want to know about their ovulation date either when they want to get pregnant or don't want to get pregnant. That's of course when you're most fertile, unfortunately knowing about it after the fact seems less useful, but I guess that's

Padre (01:01:57):

Leo Laporte (01:01:57):
That's the best they can say. Oh

Padre (01:01:59):
Yeah, I was pregnant. Oh, okay.

Leo Laporte (01:02:00):
Yeah. Whoops. First steps. And again, probably one of the reasons Fitbit, which is owned by Google, Samsung and aura are having trouble doing this is privacy. We already know that many period tracking apps are, you know, discloses information to third party, data brokers, very leaky, very leaky. It's not a good word to use when you're talking about this. So

Rene Ritchie (01:02:25):
Plus this takes a lot of the, this takes a lot of the pressure off she hall and star Trek and Lord of the rings, right. Because people can that's right.

Leo Laporte (01:02:31):
I'm sorry. Finish that

Rene Ritchie (01:02:33):
Sentence. Wait a minute. No, I knew I was gonna say I, I was just gonna say, because people are so busy complaining about that apple actually focusing on features for women is gonna give them a whole oh, okay. New sphere to lose their fragile little minds over.

Leo Laporte (01:02:44):
Oh, good. Thank goodness. <Laugh> yeah. I wasn't sure where you were going with that one. Alright, so those are, these are all good features. And I think that there is a lot to be said for apple generating this good will with its users, right? We're here to protect you. We're here to protect your privacy. We're here to help you with be more healthy. This is a good story. Both mark. Go ahead.

Padre (01:03:09):
On, on a whole, I mean, of all the majors, even though I'm not an apple fan, I would trust apple with my personal data more than I would trust Samsung, Microsoft or any of the big ones. Absolutely.

Leo Laporte (01:03:20):
Yeah. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> both Ben Thompson and Jason Snell did point out that the modern day, Apple's much more interested in ARPU. We've talked about this before the average revenue per user mm-hmm <affirmative> in selling services. And in fact, interestingly in the us, the iPhone prices did not go up. And, and I think they're charging less for the watch ultra than the comparable garment by a couple of hundred bucks. So apple is either very sensitive to pricing or understands that it's more important that they get these devices in people's hands. So

Rene Ritchie (01:03:53):
They can, that's been true.

Leo Laporte (01:03:54):
Make money on services.

Rene Ritchie (01:03:55):
That's been true since China, mobile, China, mobile, like they got Verizon. And then they got China mobile a few years after that. And that was the last big market for them to expand into, you know, absent there being one day apple stores on Mars. And I think that's the moment. And I think we talked about that on Mac break for years that they went from building up the iPhone to using the iPhone as a platform to build up not just services, but ancillary products like air paws and apple watch all of apple. Like all of those things are built. Airplay. All those things are built on top of iPhone. And now they have expanded services from iCloud all the way through the stack, all of it again, built on, on iPhone. So it's, it's an, it's an amazing platform play where once you get to a point where you can't have that many more customers, almost everybody who has an iPhone can afford an iPhone or wants an iPhone, you know, has that iPhone, you gotta start getting more money from those same customers. And that's a whole shift in business model.

Leo Laporte (01:04:46):
Well, they know how to do it. That's pretty clear. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (01:04:49):
I, I think we should let Renee talk about Esys for a few minutes.

Leo Laporte (01:04:53):
So I, the number of people, apple, didn't say this is courage, but I think this is courage. A number of people pointed this out. One thing to take away a headphone Jack, but to take away the SIM tray means you're taking away any possibility of using a SIM, right? There's no, no more Sims.

Allyn Malventano (01:05:09):
Yes. Yeah. Like

Rene Ritchie (01:05:10):
So physical.

Allyn Malventano (01:05:10):
So here's the context of, here's the context of why I bring it up? Is that me, like, I would imagine many of the, the other folks that might have a set of phones within the family, and then they're like the main technology person. So the main phone account is probably in their name. Right. And they probably do the whole phone, hand me down thing whenever they do the next

Leo Laporte (01:05:30):
Upgrade. Yes, we do that. Right. In fact, what the heck

Allyn Malventano (01:05:33):

Leo Laporte (01:05:33):
Now? I remember vividly I'm I'm at the head of the table, then there's Lisa, then there's your son, Michael. Then there's your ex-husband Mike. Right. And I re I bring out the SIM tray poker. I remove the SIM from my phone, give it to Lisa, put it in the new

Rene Ritchie (01:05:50):
Play musical SIM chairs. It

Leo Laporte (01:05:51):
Goes, it goes all way down. Poke, poke, poke.

Allyn Malventano (01:05:54):
So now what happens?

Leo Laporte (01:05:55):
I think you have to call the company, which is

Rene Ritchie (01:05:57):
Annoying. No, it's no, it's blue. You can Bluetooth SIM transfer. Like what? For iPhones at least. Yeah. You just, they Bluetooth pair and transfer the SIM data. That's

Leo Laporte (01:06:05):
Super cool. But wait, but

Rene Ritchie (01:06:07):
As long as you're with

Padre (01:06:08):
Another iPhone,

Allyn Malventano (01:06:09):
Like how does that, does it trade them? Does it swap them? What

Rene Ritchie (01:06:13):
Happens? I think it can transfer from one to the other

Allyn Malventano (01:06:15):
One or the other.

Leo Laporte (01:06:17):
Yeah. Right.

Rene Ritchie (01:06:17):
What, how to go in reverse order

Leo Laporte (01:06:18):
Now. So in the past you would get a SIM, you would have a SIM and just put it in the new phone that would automatically make it your phone now. So I'm gonna get my new phone on Friday. What do I do? Renee? I'll have my old phone.

Rene Ritchie (01:06:31):
It part of the setup, buddy. So like set up buddy, which I already has like 3000 steps on it. There'll be a step to set up the SIM, but so this is us only first. Like there's still SIM cards everywhere, but the us, the us is the only one going EIM only. So during the setup process, it'll, it'll pop up that screen for you. And it can also, you don't need wifi anymore to set it up because that would be problematic if you didn't have a SIM card. So it can also just join the, like the, the, I forget what the term is for it, but it, it can go online and connect to your yet. I don't think it's point point Bluetooth. I think it's I have to look it up. It's gotta have

Leo Laporte (01:07:05):
It could than that because I mean, we already have a problem with people stealing Sims. Imagine if it were Bluetooth SIM hijacking that would, could, could conceivably occur. I

Padre (01:07:15):
Mean, that's a nonstarter for me because I, I

Rene Ritchie (01:07:18):
Actually you're buy

Padre (01:07:19):
You're in SIM cards. Yeah. Yeah. Any country I go to, I buy a SIM card there and I put it into my phone. So there is no sport

Rene Ritchie (01:07:26):
Transfer EIMS on.

Leo Laporte (01:07:29):
You can add ASMs EIMS and only TWiTo is active in any given time, which is probably more than enough. Now

Rene Ritchie (01:07:34):
The verge did for the headphones. Jack was, was user hostile, was, was stupid in user hostile. They didn't go quite so far with this. The one thing that's interesting though, is that like the headphone Jack HDC grow of headphone jacks years before apple did, but nobody really cared. And Motorola had an EIM only phone TWiTo or three years ago. Nobody cared it's that when apple does it, every other carrier now every other phone company now has covered to do the same thing. And that's when we tend to see the entire Samsung will make an ad making fun of them. And then a year later they'll do the same thing. Meanwhile, everyone else will just, you know, quietly move over.

Leo Laporte (01:08:06):
So right. This is okay. So this is Apple's list of wireless carriers that support EIM carrier activation. And they're actually in quite a few countries not Italy, I'm sorry. Robert, and then there are quite a few companies within the us that support it. And then this is the EIM quick transfer that you were talking about. Yeah. Renee. And that's a subset of those. In fact, it's not a far fewer carriers in the us. Well,

Rene Ritchie (01:08:31):
MBN OS especially are gonna have issues.

Leo Laporte (01:08:33):
Yeah. At and T CPI. T-Mobile us cellular. And Verizon only in the us will support that. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:08:40):
I mean, I, it's gonna be really annoying for nerd several times a

Leo Laporte (01:08:43):

Rene Ritchie (01:08:44):
Yeah. So I'm not going through a, a SIM swap process.

Leo Laporte (01:08:47):
Well, the good news

Rene Ritchie (01:08:47):
Is just put in the card.

Leo Laporte (01:08:48):
You can't Robert get that iPhone in Italy. You can only get it in the us, not even in Canada. Can you get the EIM?

Rene Ritchie (01:08:54):
Yeah. No. Ours have SIM cards. So everywhere else has EIM and regular SIM. You have both,

Leo Laporte (01:08:59):
Right. You'll have a tray. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. That's what you need is the tray. So I understand when you take the tray out, it occupies a lot of real estate and it it's another hole in the case, which makes it harder to seal the case up. I think it makes sense. It's

Rene Ritchie (01:09:11):
Also like, it's not that main. So this is like one of those things where we talked about different user groups, different constituencies, all with different priorities and where you start weighing those things. So there's gonna be a lot of nerds like myself included who are super salty about this, because like we have 18 phones and we move that SIM card around all the time. Sure. But most people don't, most people have a phone for four to five years and also people with accessibility issues having to get a SIM tool and swap the thing. Even people who are just like poor iron coordination, those ni those nano Sims. Like they fall out, they drop, they try to put it in the right way. Like it's, if you ever watch someone in your family, try to do it without grabbing it from them and doing it yourself. <Laugh> you have more patience than Padre, I think at that point. But it's just like, it does solve problems, but it does create all sorts of other problems. What

Leo Laporte (01:09:53):
About the contention that it makes it ease. It makes it more friction free to change carriers. I'm on T-Mobile but I want to go to Verizon. Is it, is it easy to do that?

Rene Ritchie (01:10:04):
It's differently annoying. Like in both cases, like you have to get so like, I, I, I was telling a story, like you have to go and get a SIM card and sometimes they won't give it to you. Sometimes they charge you for it. Sometimes they mail it to you and you don't get it. Yeah. Sometimes you get it and, and like, it doesn't work for like SMS for some reason. Oh, your SIM card is faulty and you've gotta go have your card

Leo Laporte (01:10:21):
Problems also problems. When we went to 5g, I gotta notice from both my carriers T-Mobile and Verizon, oh, you need to get a new 5g SIM. So my existing SIM didn't support, whatever it was.

Rene Ritchie (01:10:34):
And it's also into it's borderline intolerable that it's been going on this long, because for everything else that we have, all we do is log in. You don't need a separate chip for your email or your, or your messaging service or your like your website. Like we're not pushing a bunch of little cards around, but we've had this archaic process for so long with these. And it really should be something as like I log out of at and T I log into T-Mobile, we're not there yet. EIMS get us a step closer, but the more, and they hate it. But the more that we can, dumbify them, the faster, the better, the sooner

Leo Laporte (01:11:01):
I'm, I'm all for pushing, pushing forward the future. And when apple does something, see, take away the headphones, Jack push forward the wrong future. But when you do something like this to push, push forward the future and think of all the, the paperclips that have, oh, I have

Rene Ritchie (01:11:14):
18 ports of my phone shows

Leo Laporte (01:11:15):
Up to me. Yeah, you would.

Padre (01:11:17):

Rene Ritchie (01:11:18):
I don't wanna double, I would have double USBC

Padre (01:11:20):
To my account. I, I don't want my login.

Leo Laporte (01:11:24):
Oh, you want a burner? You want a burner phone.

Padre (01:11:26):
Yeah. And then it's it's I am very paranoid about that. I want that disconnect. I want to be able to swap SW Sims. I want to carry not to know which services I'm using. That's that's the whole thing. That's how I build up my mobile presence. So,

Leo Laporte (01:11:38):
But they're tying, you have to pay for it. So they tie it to you through your payments.

Padre (01:11:44):

Leo Laporte (01:11:45):
Except, or do you go out and by here's some cash here's some Lira. Give me a SIM. No,

Padre (01:11:50):
Exactly. Oh, there there's. There's nothing that ties these Sims to me. Oh, okay. When I dump them, they're gone

Leo Laporte (01:11:55):
Forever. You're good. Wow. Oh,

Rene Ritchie (01:11:57):
We, should we, sorry. We should check with the skiff on that. We should get a ruling.

Leo Laporte (01:12:00):
<Laugh> <laugh> I've always thought obsec but maybe not. I don't know. Maybe Alan has something to say about that.

Allyn Malventano (01:12:07):
I mean, I mean, that is a good OPSEC, but, but honestly, like, I mean, I've been, I've, I've walked around, Padre's digs over there you know, in Italy on vacation and yeah, I can attest to, yes. You could probably just go onto any given street corner and find some person that will just sell Sims for cash.

Leo Laporte (01:12:25):
Yeah. It's different. But they

Rene Ritchie (01:12:26):
Work doing anything, material, all those people work for the company. It's just,

Allyn Malventano (01:12:29):
Yeah. It's just kind of, that's how it works over there. Right. And it's cheap. That's that's just how super

Padre (01:12:34):
Cheap over

Allyn Malventano (01:12:34):
Here. Yeah. Right. I,

Padre (01:12:35):
I pay five euros a month and it's unlimited data invoice.

Leo Laporte (01:12:39):
So this is kind of an

Rene Ritchie (01:12:40):
Analogous. I get that for 500.

Leo Laporte (01:12:42):
<Laugh> <laugh> <laugh> this is analogous to getting rid of cash. This is the same argument. Yeah. In some ways, I mean cash or

Rene Ritchie (01:12:51):
Don physical USB doggle for sofTWiTare.

Leo Laporte (01:12:53):
Yeah. Loppy discs. Get rid of USB doggle for sofTWiTare. That's a terrible get rid of floppy disc, get rid of cassettes. Get rid of all physical media. I, I don't have problem.

Padre (01:13:03):
I don't think I have any sofTWiTare that still uses a USB doggle no, that's I think I, God

Leo Laporte (01:13:08):
That's I don't, I

Rene Ritchie (01:13:09):
Don't eventually resolve was using it for the high end up until like a year or TWiTo.

Leo Laporte (01:13:13):
That's right. Terrible. That's right. Terrible. Terrible. Yeah. Okay. So there are problems with getting rid of the SIM tray, but here in the first world, UN unlike Canada, we're gonna be

Padre (01:13:26):
For most people.

Rene Ritchie (01:13:28):
Yeah. Most be okay. Yeah. No, but it is early, but like what's interesting to me is like how, like Samsung was really early to 5g arguably, before anybody could really use 5g. Google's really early to RCS. Apple was really early now to getting rid of the SIM card and like, is that annoying? Or does that force adoption to come even earlier? And there's probably arguments to be made both ways, but it is always gonna hurt nerds. Like nerds are, we are incredibly vocal, but we are not a very large percentage. And we are always gonna be hurt first, hardest and most by these changes.

Leo Laporte (01:13:54):
So this is, this is the contents of your video that you just put on YouTube yeah. Is to talk about this. And you are surprising me by coming down in favor of keeping the SIM card.

Rene Ritchie (01:14:06):
So O over the long arc of history, I think it should go away. Like, I think a lot of, of these things are, are like, can be way friendlier for mainstream people. I'm happy that apple offers both internationally. I don't, I don't know that you needed to get rid of both in the us, but when a company like apple does it, it does inarguably push those technologies through faster. Like when they got rid of floppy drive, you know, it did push USBC adaption adoption. And when they got rid of hard drives, it did push, you know, passing the Baton nicely to my cohost. It did push SSD adoption, you know, so it's painful, but it's painful to those of us who are grew up with the technology that we're losing

Leo Laporte (01:14:42):
Life is painful.

Rene Ritchie (01:14:44):
Our lives around them. Life

Leo Laporte (01:14:45):
Is pain technology makes it worse. <Laugh> that's it right there in a nutshell. We're gonna take a little break. A Vinno Mr. Submariner Mr. Robert father, Robert, Mr. You know, God's business Renee Richie, the king of YouTube. All

Rene Ritchie (01:15:05):

Leo Laporte (01:15:07):
You know, let's do a quick commercial and then back, and I say, have so many more things I want to ask you guys. All right. Gotta move along. Our show today, brought to you by user I'm sure you know this, but in the us, every website, thanks to the Americans with disabilities act a great act. Every website, there is no exception has to be accessible by law. Oh, and I know when you hear this and you're the O you know, you have a website, you're going, oh, whoa, what is that gonna cost me? How hard is that gonna be? Well, I'm here to tell you, if you use user, it's gonna be easy, easy peasy, go to We have user way go to lower, right? You'll see the universal accessibility icon click that you'll see a whole menu of things you can do on our site to make it more accessible.

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User weighs, incredible AI powered solution. Tirelessly enforces those hundreds of WCAG guidelines, the web content accessibility guidelines, and you know what? It took one line of JavaScript on our site. It was so easy in a matter of seconds, user way achieved more than an entire team of developers could do in months. I know it's overwhelming the idea of making your website accessible, but user way solutions will make it simple. I promise they'll make it easy. And it is cost effective. Start by going to user Use that free scanning tool there. It'll tell you if your site's compliant or not. And it'll tell you where you need to work. If you have to get some work done it, it gives you an idea of where you stand. And by the way, don't be afraid. If you have a giant site, if you have an enterprise level website, you've got thousands of pages user way also has a managed solution for the big sites.

Leo Laporte (01:16:50):
Their team will do it all for you, but from our site for almost any, you know, kind of small to medium business, it's actually easy. And it costs so little less than I spend monthly on web fonts. And that's because user way is using AI and machine learning solutions. The, they are number one right now, 61% the leading accessibility solution on the market today, 61% of the market, 1 million websites, the, some of the biggest sites in the world Coca-Cola uses user way, Disney, eBay, FedEx. But now you're getting that best in class enterprise level accessibility tool for you, your small and medium business, as little as $49 a month on the monthly plan, you could be ADA compliant by the way, you should make money too, because you'll reach more customers. People will love you for it. You'll build loyalty, and we're gonna get you 30% off.

Leo Laporte (01:17:44):
There are a billion people in the world with disabilities. That's a 13% of the population that are potential customers that you could be losing if you're not compliant. So there's, there's, you know, the stick of regulation, but there's just the carrot of let's get some let's, let's be nice. Let's, let's get more people on our site. I user way is the easiest way to do it. The AI and the image recognition stuff is so smart. It'll automatically generate image alt tags. It writes the descriptions for you, but it also makes it easy for you to add to those. You can remediate complex nav menus, the, just the nightmare for people with low vision, all your pop-ups will be accessible. It'll fix vague link violations, fixes broken links. So that's good for everybody, right? Ensures your website makes use of accessible colors without, you know, lo losing your brand identity user way gives you a detailed report of all the violations fixed on your website. And it's easy to use. In fact, they've got plugins for WordPress and Shopify and Wix and site corn SharePoint, and more and more and more, or just add one line of JavaScript and you'll meet your compliance goals, improve the experience for your user. Just ask Siri while the voice of Siri, Susan Bennett, what she thinks about user way.

Susan Bennett (01:18:57):
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Leo Laporte (01:19:19):
User way can do it for you. Make any website fully accessible and legal ADA compliant with user way. Everyone who visits your site can browse seamlessly. They can customize it to fit their needs. It's a great way to showcase your brands, commitment to millions of people with disabilities, user Again, 30% off user ways, AI powered accessibility solution book, a short call, talk to 'em find out what they can do for you. They have an accessibility guide. You can get that to user way, making the internet accessible for everyone user user Let me thank of so much for their support of this week in tech. And now it's time to go to dynamic

Rene Ritchie (01:20:09):

Leo Laporte (01:20:11):

Rene Ritchie (01:20:14):
Bam, bam, bam.

Leo Laporte (01:20:16):
I actually, I have to be honest, you know, the whole punch of the notch. I hate the notch on my MacBook because I use a program that doesn't know about the notch apples programs do, but my Emax doesn't. So there's this gap at the top of the page. When I go full screen, it just drives me nuts, but you know, you're gonna have a camera. You want a thin screen. You want no bezel, you're gonna have a, a something. The new iPhone prose have a, instead of a notch, a cutout TWiTo, actually, there's one, that's kind of laws and shaped. And one, that's a little dot, but you will never see those TWiTo because of dynamic island. And I, I, I want to give, I think this is actually pretty impressive. I wanna give apple credit for taking lemons and making lemonade out of it. They said they, they leaned into what is unfortunately, something you have to do a cutout on the screen. And I think they've made it better. I I'm pretty impressed with the dynamic island.

Rene Ritchie (01:21:16):
The animation is AMA like, so like the name, whatever, like, I'm sure they went things like eight dozen names that came up with that. Yeah. There's no name that would've made me super happy with that. And, and they probably didn't want another situation where like, Matthew parents panino called it a notch and it sticks for five years or something. And you know,

Leo Laporte (01:21:30):
You like call it that thingy on the top, you know, the, the little,

Rene Ritchie (01:21:34):
Yeah, they would call it a pill and it would sound like drugs and apple would hate it every time they heard it. Like, so they had to get ahead of that real, by the way, fast, we

Leo Laporte (01:21:39):
Found out that they trademarked it very clever. They trademark it in Jamaica. Yes. Because you can't see what trademarks are in effect in Jamaica without going to the office.

Rene Ritchie (01:21:51):
But you know, Mark Herman is moving to Jamaica now I'm

Leo Laporte (01:21:54):
Would go to Kingston from now on and check.

Rene Ritchie (01:21:56):
But the, the animations, Leo, these are the most playful, interesting amusing, like, well

Leo Laporte (01:22:01):
Now you haven't

Rene Ritchie (01:22:02):
Seen animations. I've seen you.

Leo Laporte (01:22:03):
Haven't seen it person have you? No, no, neither

Rene Ritchie (01:22:06):
Have I've seen it, but well, no, I've seen, well, yeah, I've seen like Justine and Marque's videos. Yeah. Videos.

Leo Laporte (01:22:10):
A lot of the apple. Yeah, it looks good.

Rene Ritchie (01:22:12):
But the, like, if you go frame by frame through some of those, it is like, this is classic apple. This is like what I, what we haven't seen from them in a while. Cause some of the stuff has been a little janky over the last couple years. Yeah. This is really nice.

Leo Laporte (01:22:24):
Yeah. I, you know Annie and Nacho's reaction is this is the first you know, user interface affordance in a long time. That really makes a lot of sense. And by the way, no one knew it was, that was not, I didn't see any rumors about it. Did you? No one knew that they were gonna do this.

Rene Ritchie (01:22:47):
Can I be honest with Helio now that I'm out and I'm, I can be based about this kind of stuff. Yeah. Most, most of the leaks are wrong. Like they don't really know what's happening. They get like little bits of fragmentary information, weeks and months after it was at all relevant anymore. And it's just like, if you go back and look like there was this huge scandal, I, I barely, I, I saw it, but I tried to stay away from it where they were yelling at each other and accusing each other of deleting their TWiTeets to hide bad calls and stuff. Just like, ah, no, like I'm glad that we live in an era now where apple is like, here, it is like, it's fun. Go play with it. And like, you can follow the rumors if you want, but they're not gonna be exact.

Leo Laporte (01:23:19):
Okay. Thank you. I agree. I, for a long time, I actually band rumors. But the problem when Mac break weekly was is we got closer and closer to an apple event. There was less to talk about less and less. So we finally, I had a cave and start doing rumors. So the idea is this pill and by the way, there's a API so that developers of apps can use it as well, will respond to the conditions. So it'll show you what's going on. It's basically a permanent widget, but it changes in size and shape depending on what you're doing. I think that's brilliant. Robert, are you excited? Do you like it? Do you hate it?

Padre (01:23:56):
It's a dynamic island. Boy

Leo Laporte (01:24:00):

Rene Ritchie (01:24:00):

Leo Laporte (01:24:01):
I love it. The island

Rene Ritchie (01:24:04):
It's D

Padre (01:24:06):
I mean, okay. Look, I mean, it looks okay. It's fine. I mean, yes, it it's gonna take getting used to and yes. I, I don't, it's, it's not revolutionary, but I don't understand why people are getting upset. I mean, I've seen TWiTitter threads where people were saying, this is destroying the iPhone aesthetic. I'm thinking why, why <laugh> you've seen this before. You've seen the, not just in

Leo Laporte (01:24:28):
The car. I think it makes the iPhone a little friendly plastic pal. You want to be with, because it's changing in response to what you're doing and giving you, just, you know, the information you want. I think potentially this is super cool. We've never seen a widget like this and it sure does solve the problem of, well, what are we gonna do with this big fat hole on our screen, by the way, it's iPhone pro only they didn't put it. The notch is still on the old iPhone.

Allyn Malventano (01:24:55):
Did they need like, cuz that, that camera focuses now, correct? Yes. Like that's the camera that focus. Yes. So is it, is it that they had to lower it from the top edge because of that? Like is the mechanism that goes, oh,

Leo Laporte (01:25:07):

Allyn Malventano (01:25:08):
Cause I, I was just curious like, well, it's just like, they only, they only gained like, not that many lines worth of pixels above it. So it's like, why did you really need to shift it down? So I would imagine there, maybe there's gotta be some guts in there on the inside that that's,

Leo Laporte (01:25:21):
That's an interest question. They decided you know, it's a laws, inogenic pill and they decided to show the activation lights for your microphone and the camera on the screen. But it looks like it's part of this larger black area, but the screen is blackened really. So they're hiding the fact that there's TWiTo holes. I don't know. We'll see when we get 'em whether you ever notice that there's TWiTo holes we'll see how responsive it is. You

Rene Ritchie (01:25:50):
Can see on the current ones in a certain light, like you can see the entire mechanism.

Leo Laporte (01:25:54):
I'm sure that's the case like transparent. Yeah. In fact, you can, even in these videos from apple, you can see the camera lens in the, in the notch or

Padre (01:26:01):
The hole. I mean, within a day there'll be a teardown and we'll know exactly what's behind

Leo Laporte (01:26:05):
That. Right.

Padre (01:26:06):
You know, if the maybe antenna assemblies up there and they wanted to give it more space and they have RF interference,

Leo Laporte (01:26:11):
Would the iPhone, nothing still have the notch. It also has the old, a 15 chip is

Rene Ritchie (01:26:16):
The it's

Leo Laporte (01:26:17):
Just screen. Right? This is marketing. Isn't using the old mouth. Share their products. Oh, is it? Maybe that's it. Maybe they couldn't cut a hole in it. I don't know. There certainly is differentiation. All right. Well, I was excited about the dynamic island, but I guess I'm not what did you get Leo?

Rene Ritchie (01:26:36):
No. No, it's great. What did you get? What did you order?

Leo Laporte (01:26:37):
So Apple's ordering process at 5:00 AM. Pacific time on Friday was the worst. It's been in a, in a few years. I got up at five, mostly, you know, normally I wouldn't care. I go to the store and get it in October and November, but because I want to be able to talk about it early on, on the radio show and on a podcast. I, I usually like to get it as soon as I can. So I had pre saved the order one for Lisa one for me, 5:00 AM stores still closed. Took about six minutes. I'm really sleepy. I did not want to get up. I I'm lying in bed. Looking at my phone on the side. Finally comes alive 5 0 6. I think, you know, Apple's intent was you just, it says you've got a pre-order. So I hit that. All you have to do is confirm it and go. And it, it, it did weird stuff. It didn't seem like it went through. I looked at my orders. It, I didn't show it. Then I tried my phone and that really didn't go through the whole thing collapsed. I just gave up.

Rene Ritchie (01:27:40):
You should have done what I did, Leo. That is forget that you were on west coast time go during the east coast time. Instead you'll be three hours late and then not get a phone until October.

Leo Laporte (01:27:48):
Is that what you, you're not gonna get until October. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:27:50):
Oh. Cause I was used to it being eight o'clock and I, I forgot that I was on west coast time. So I looked oh, eight o'clock and I'd been up for three hours. I'm like, oh, October 15th.

Leo Laporte (01:27:57):
Yay. Oh, so isn't

Padre (01:27:58):
This just the pent up pandemic demand. Oh, people wanted, I don't know, but they wanted something new.

Leo Laporte (01:28:03):
I understand. It's hard to design a site for peak use. I understand that. But this happens every year. You've gotta, there's gotta be a way can't you get like CloudFlare or somebody? Yeah. To back up your cart. I don't know. I just see. Anyway, I, I went back to sleep, got up in the, around, around eight in the morning check to see if that first order went through it had, they finally started to show up so good. All right. I got Lisa's phone. She got five, 12 black. I'm looking around. I don't wanna get in October. I want to get it sooner. So I found out I finally messing with the configurator. If I get 2 56 gigs in gold <laugh> which apparently? Wow. Barely. Nobody wanted gold.

Padre (01:28:49):
A seller. That's okay.

Leo Laporte (01:28:51):
People not

Rene Ritchie (01:28:51):
Gold. Want more storage?

Leo Laporte (01:28:53):
Oh, maybe that's it. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that was what I wanted was 2 56, cuz that's I haven't used, you know, anywhere near that, that on, on my 12th. So I got 2 56 in gold. I could pick it up. I have to drive to Marin and pick it up at the apple store, Marin at 3, 3 30 on Friday, but at least I'll have it. So it was not a good, it was honestly not a good experience. And I wonder how much that hurts apple. I guess anybody who gets up at 5:00 AM mid it's, midnight GMT. I realized, oh, that's why they're doing it. It's midnight GMT. Anybody who gets up midnight UTC or whatever is serious enough. That even if it's a problem, they're not gonna stop. Yeah. Right. They're gonna, they're not gonna go buy a pixel cuz of it. Right.

Rene Ritchie (01:29:38):
I buy that too. So that's why, that's why the fall is fun. Now. Every year I buy the nexus or pixel and the iPhone it's

Leo Laporte (01:29:44):
Fall is very expensive. Very expensive. Yeah. And then

Rene Ritchie (01:29:48):
And then the AirPods and the pixel buds pro I bought the AirPods and the pixel watch.

Leo Laporte (01:29:52):
I didn't wanna buy those. And I got the ultra watch because because I'm, I'm an adventurer. I can't help it. I'm going up kill Manjaro and I will have,

Rene Ritchie (01:30:03):
And Sundar was wearing the pixel watch during code conference too. Just teasing us.

Leo Laporte (01:30:06):
Oh, was he? Oh, I I'm actually probably get that, but I'll never wear it. Yeah. 

Rene Ritchie (01:30:10):
<Laugh> not too risk Leo <laugh> it's oh my goodness. I, I just, you know what, Leo, I thank you for the admission. The honesty is refreshing. It hurts to be a sheep.

Leo Laporte (01:30:21):
It really hurts. <Laugh> it

Rene Ritchie (01:30:23):
Really hurts. You're gonna get it. You're just, you're not, you're an enthusiast. Your technology enthusiast. You're interested in you and wonderful Leo. We live in an age of wonders. You know

Leo Laporte (01:30:31):
What the real test will be when I retire and I don't have to review it or anything, will I get it? And I bet I won't. I took a, I, I didn't buy one last year. I'm still on the 12.

Rene Ritchie (01:30:42):
So I, I, I buy every second year apple watches for, for a while now. But the thing that always makes me smile is when somebody retires from like an apple or a Google or a Facebook, they go so hard. The other directions they're like, I am never going on. Like never mind an alpha. I'm never going on a beta again. I'm never going on a first release. I am gonna only buy rev TWiTo hardware from now on <laugh>. And then they're like, they don't know how to buy or set up anything because it's always been provisioned by the company. And they have no idea how like at and T or T-Mobile works or, and then they buy like the cheapest thing they can to keep it for four years. It's amazing.

Leo Laporte (01:31:11):
Now that now that we've really wrapped this up, I feel like an idiot because there isn't that much new in the phone. I should probably be stupid much

Rene Ritchie (01:31:19):
Spurring our economy. <Laugh> God, but you can try out the SOS feature. I mean, that does sound kind of cool. Right? 48 megapixels. No,

Leo Laporte (01:31:28):
I can't try out the SOS picture because then emergency services will come to me and I will say, no, I'm fine.

Rene Ritchie (01:31:35):
The helicopter on TWiTI studio, I was just testing it.

Leo Laporte (01:31:38):
Send the helicopter back.

Rene Ritchie (01:31:40):
I don't need the helicopter. And then they'll bill you. We're gonna yeah. Chest compressions, chest compressions.

Leo Laporte (01:31:46):
Exactly. I got the AirPod pro TWiTo just to see, is it TWiTice as good in the noise cancellation? Actually, mostly I'm interested in the a LC three Kodak.

Rene Ritchie (01:31:58):
My hearing is way worse than the first one. So I won't even know like, is it really, or is this my hearing worse?

Leo Laporte (01:32:03):
I just can't hear a thing.

Rene Ritchie (01:32:05):

Leo Laporte (01:32:06):
Mm mm-hmm.

Rene Ritchie (01:32:09):
And no colors, even though AirPods, max have colors. The AirPods pro still don't.

Leo Laporte (01:32:12):
Oh yeah. That's true. Yeah. I'll dip 'em I'll make 'em gold. Like my phone. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:32:18):
You could do like arts and crafts with like some markers. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:32:21):
And by the way, the ultra this $800 watch you want colors. No, you get any color you want as long as it's titanium gray, but

Rene Ritchie (01:32:29):
Well, if you're gonna get titanium, why would you paint it?

Leo Laporte (01:32:32):
Well, I guess you're right. Yeah. Can they anize titanium that's thing?

Allyn Malventano (01:32:35):
I don't think, I don't think you can

Leo Laporte (01:32:37):

Rene Ritchie (01:32:37):
Titan it's I don't think so. It's the same thing as it would be like getting P painted carbon fiber. Why would you do that?

Leo Laporte (01:32:43):
Right? You wanna see it? Yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:32:47):
Actually I think that don't wanna carbon fiber watch <laugh> <laugh> someone

Allyn Malventano (01:32:52):
Will make a, a rap for it. I'm sure.

Leo Laporte (01:32:55):
I 16

Rene Ritchie (01:32:56):
Is you can rapidly.

Leo Laporte (01:32:57):
Oh, I'll wrap it. That's good. Yeah. Wrap

Allyn Malventano (01:32:59):

Leo Laporte (01:33:00):
Yeah. That's good. Do you wrap your cars, Alan?

Allyn Malventano (01:33:03):

Leo Laporte (01:33:04):
You seem like the type that mine you will now.

Allyn Malventano (01:33:07):
I, I, I will occasionally Platy dip out some Chrome or something. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:33:11):
Exactly. Other than that, it seems like you might be the kind of guy that does that. I, I, why I see you driving a challenger around that's been dipped and is Matt black?

Allyn Malventano (01:33:21):
No, man. We, we talked about this earlier. I'm driving a Tesla around

Leo Laporte (01:33:24):
That's right. Twito of them

Rene Ritchie (01:33:26):
Twito. Well marque doesn't he? Marque Matt black. His Tesla.

Leo Laporte (01:33:28):
Yeah. I'm sure he does.

Allyn Malventano (01:33:30):
Yeah. That's a, that's that's a wrap on his, I think. Right. He gets the pain protection film or yeah, whatever.

Leo Laporte (01:33:36):
I feel like I know I'm gonna get on there and I'm gonna be in a grocery store parking lot. Somebody's gonna run a cart to me and it's gonna appeal. It's gonna have like a weird plastic peel thing. Does that

Rene Ritchie (01:33:46):
See? I'm a fan of like the star wars used technology. Look. That's why like people complain about their, I, I just let the stuff get beaten up and it's great. It looks like the money I'm Falcon. I can, could not be happier.

Allyn Malventano (01:33:55):
Yeah. So, so Leo you're you're half, right? Like I probably would be a person that does some sort of like, you know, like I want to do the pain protection film thing on the car. Not necessarily a rap to change the color or go that crazy. But but then inevitably I get the car, it gets a few of early, you know, dinged up, whatever happens to the front of it, just from, you know, highway or rock chip or something. And then I'm like, ah, great. Now it's not perfect. Well now I, why bother with the, you know, doing the

Leo Laporte (01:34:23):

Allyn Malventano (01:34:24):

Leo Laporte (01:34:24):
Protection. I want a, a car that I could ding up and not feel bad about. Yeah. I'm always happy

Rene Ritchie (01:34:29):
With run. You get that first under 10 Parex. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:34:32):
Yeah. Monday, tomorrow iOS 16 comes out, you know, notable mostly in my opinion, because it will be the first implementation of PAKEs. So this is the new passwordless future. Now it's pointless to have PAs keys until a website supports it. But I guess it's one of those chicken and egg things. Now that the iPhone has PAs keys, maybe we'll see some websites. Do you think this year we'll see some pass keyed enabled websites.

Rene Ritchie (01:34:59):
Yeah, for sure to say it's a people say it's,

Allyn Malventano (01:35:04):
It takes a big company doing it to get it to catch on. Right. Like we, we know poor Steve. Gibson's been trying to do his squirrel thing. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:35:11):
Squirrel would've been better, but you know, so Google says, they're going to put it in testing in beta versions at the later this year, Microsoft says they're gonna do it next year. So those are the big three. Apple's a little ahead of the bunch though. 

Allyn Malventano (01:35:29):

Leo Laporte (01:35:30):
Well, I hope I hope I, I it'll be, it'll be like the first time I used an apple watch to buy something. The first time I get to use PAs skis that will be coming to your iOS 16 apple was fast to implement it actually. 

Allyn Malventano (01:35:48):
And then all that Essem stuff comes in there too. So if you wanted to convert your physical SIM into an EIM, like if, if you wanted to add more hurt <laugh> unnecessarily <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:36:01):
So you mean, if you have a phone that still has Sims because you have IO 16, you can make it an EIM somehow,

Allyn Malventano (01:36:07):
Right? Yeah. Like, like this is, this is literally what I'm trying to figure out for that whole phone, hand me down thing. Right. Do I need to take the older phone? That's doesn't you know, do I need to convert that SIM to the EIM? And then she swap that with the iPhone 14.

Leo Laporte (01:36:20):
If it's an Eimer, the, unless you're sitting next to the person you're giving it to, you're probably gonna just deactivate it and let it be up to them. Right. Or no,

Padre (01:36:31):
My guess, you know, we're gonna be running

Rene Ritchie (01:36:32):
As the update.

Leo Laporte (01:36:34):

Padre (01:36:35):
We're gonna have a couple of verification issues. Like Jason Howell did a few years back when he was swapping out the Android device <laugh> and he, his authentication was his Google voice number, but his Google voice number was tied to his Google account. Right. Right. So he couldn't authenticate his go. You know, if you're, if you're Ty together, your, your PA key and your EIM and all of your other information, at some point, I'm thinking you're gonna lock yourself out of a verification step. Yep. So just be

Rene Ritchie (01:37:00):
Careful that happens when I'm on the plane all the time. Like some account goes, oh, your location is different. We're sending you a SMS. Hey, please don't send me SMSs, but almost on a plane. And then you can't get into anything.

Leo Laporte (01:37:10):
Actually. Rod pile widget, that rod was what's that widgets. Oh, you like the new widgets?

Rene Ritchie (01:37:15):
The, I can, I dunno if you can see 'em but there's widgets on the lock screen and like just the, the new look and everything. I think it's not, it's fun.

Leo Laporte (01:37:22):
It'd be nice. If your little Nemo were on a dynamic island,

Rene Ritchie (01:37:27):
It would, oh, they would have so much fun. They would be flipping and jumping over it. <Laugh> wow. And then Dory would forget who they were.

Leo Laporte (01:37:32):
Yeah. Is this new? My phone says get ready for your new iPhone. I don't even know how they knew that. Get ready for your new oh,

Padre (01:37:39):
It's cuz it's tied to your account. Oh yeah. That's right. They know, they know I, I wait when your new phone comes, it's just gonna, it's automatically gonna have your accounted. Right? They, they preset all that.

Leo Laporte (01:37:48):
No. Will it never has in the past. No, I don't believe so. You gotta log in. You gotta remember your password.

Rene Ritchie (01:37:54):
I think Amazon does that, but I don't think apples,

Leo Laporte (01:37:56):
Amazon, Amazon.

Rene Ritchie (01:37:57):
Yeah. Amazon's actually very good at that. Although I am kind of freaked out about that sometimes because if my, if a new device gets intercepted in transit it's you can reset. But,

Leo Laporte (01:38:05):

Rene Ritchie (01:38:06):
If you gifted, it's been inconvenient for people. Who've been gifting them.

Leo Laporte (01:38:09):
I gave my mom the new Kindle Oasis. Yeah. And there's a little check box, which I never saw before. But I was curious that says, do not attach my account. You check that box and you can send it as a gift and it's not, it's got no account. But then I had a thought, oh, this is gonna be fun. I'm gonna have to call my 90 year old mom and explain that had a log to Amazon and her Kindle, but beautiful. It opens up and it says now open the Kindle app on your old Kindle or your iPhone. And it did. And it just, it all, all transferred over. It was, it was the easiest thing was awesome. So if Amazon does a good job of that, that was impressive. Yeah. Alright. Google is gonna have an event October 6th. So you're getting the pixel seven. The pixel watch the pixel buds. You're doing the, the whole,

Rene Ritchie (01:38:57):
I've done that every year. Since the nexus, the first one nexus one. Really?

Leo Laporte (01:39:03):
I didn't know this.

Rene Ritchie (01:39:04):
You couldn't admit it when you were break weekly. You couldn't tell. No, I did. Oh, okay. I always, I always talked about it. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:39:08):
I didn't know that. Good for you. Yeah. I always have a pixel. I don't know if I wanna get the new one. I'm very happy with the pixel six. What do you, what, what is, what is gonna change with this thing?

Rene Ritchie (01:39:19):
It's be better. That's that's what the story is of every phone.

Leo Laporte (01:39:22):
Now's like, this is better.

Rene Ritchie (01:39:23):
It's better. I like it. Like, honestly, I like it because like every pixel so far has been almost at repudiation of the previous generation pixel, like different, difficult. And, and to me that makes it harder because you're almost starting from scratch every year. And this year looks like they're gonna like use the pixel six as a foundation and just accelerate forward on this seven. That's the strategy Apple's been using and Samsung's been using for years. And I think it's, it's really smart because it's, it's like an efficient use of everybody's time and it ends up giving you a really stable, solid product. I think that's gonna be great.

Leo Laporte (01:39:50):
I am the pixel watch actually looks pretty it's round it's. It looks pretty, but we'll see, now that I have a four pound watch on this arm, I don't know if I want another watch on the, on the other arm. <Laugh> can I

Rene Ritchie (01:40:02):
Like wonder woman bracers? <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:40:04):
Can I take the picture? Yeah. Watch up to Kilimanjaro with me or is it just gonna go <laugh> you, you go ahead. Leave me here. They're also gonna do this at seven in the morning, our time. So I'm making Jason Howell get up to do this 1:10 AM Eastern. And they're doing it out of the Google store birthday. Jason in Manhattan. Yeah. Or Brooklyn happy birthday, by the way, Jason Howell, our producer host of all about Android and tech news weekly man about town is is 50 years old today. I don't know.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:40):
76 years young.

Leo Laporte (01:40:42):
He is such, he looks, it doesn't look a day, day over. He says he's 47. He's

Rene Ritchie (01:40:47):
Constant as the Northern star.

Leo Laporte (01:40:48):
I am surprised. I thought he was younger than that, to be honest with you. So you look great. Jason, happy birthday. It's nice of you to work while you're celebrating your birthday. I appreciate that. So actually

Padre (01:41:01):
Jason is younger than I am, I believe.

Leo Laporte (01:41:03):
Oh really?

Padre (01:41:05):
Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Okay. By a couple years. All right.

Leo Laporte (01:41:09):
At goo Google's gonna do a live event too. They're gonna stream it, but there'll be an in-person event in Brooklyn. Apple did that. They went to the Steve jobs. Theater did not observe a lot of masks in evidence. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only masks worn were by Micah Sergeant and Jason Snell. <Laugh> I think I guilted them into it. So I guess C's over Google and apple are saying it's over <laugh>.

Rene Ritchie (01:41:38):
I mean, they probably do like testing before the thing. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:41:40):
You know? Yeah. They require you some the day before you like apple did the day before you go. But apple really, it was it was an honor system. Cuz you could just send 'em a picture of your plastic stick and I see, <laugh> see I'm negative. See, so I don't know about you, but I have at least a dozen negative sticks just hanging around waiting ready, ready to go. Just in case, just in case, just in case I took a little magic marker and darkened the the test line, just so you, it's very clear that I'm not sick.

Padre (01:42:16):
I have to do these transatlantic flights where there is no testing requirement. Not anymore. No masking requirement. No. And so you're sitting in a tube for 14 hours, hours.

Leo Laporte (01:42:25):

Rene Ritchie (01:42:26):
Canada still has mask requirement. I, I, both my flights this week I had to wear, well, I didn't, I would've worn it anyway, but everyone had to wear a mask and even give out masks because a lot of people aren't aware of that, especially when you're coming from America to Canada, they're like, what don't you doing? What put on your mask makes

Leo Laporte (01:42:39):
Very happy. Yeah. It's still very strict.

Rene Ritchie (01:42:42):
They got rid of the, like the COVID app that you used to have to fill out upon reentry. And like the big, they used to have like testing

Padre (01:42:48):
At the airport that, that never worked properly. Seriously. We, we we've had so many different changes in the paperwork that we had to fill in coming back and forth across the pond. And sometimes it was just like, wait a minute. Didn't I just fill this out for the country. I just left. So, so that part I do, I do like, it's, it's much better.

Leo Laporte (01:43:06):
I perfectly happy to wear a mask, but since no one else is I just, you know, I'm

Rene Ritchie (01:43:12):
Still wearing mine. Yeah.

Padre (01:43:13):
I still wear mine.

Leo Laporte (01:43:14):
Yeah. We wear, we wear it around the studio. Benita's wearing one now, right? Yeah. I took mine off so I could speak, but I'll put it on again before I leave the studio. And I just, you know, it's, it's not hard. It's better to air on the side of caution. I just, I think it's interesting. Apple also asked its employees to come back to work on Tuesday. And much to the,

Rene Ritchie (01:43:35):
Was that good timing. Like we'll come back to work to same. We're having a huge event. Maybe wait till the next day.

Leo Laporte (01:43:40):
Yeah. And apples, the way Apple's gonna do it is you will have to work on campus three days a week, Tuesday, Thursday, and a day to be named later your, you know, your boss can name the third day. And if your boss says anything but Wednesday he's a Dick

All (01:43:59):
<Laugh> so <laugh> right. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:44:04):
That's fair. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's not that's yeah. It's gotta be Wednesday. You're there on Tuesday and Thursday. Make it Wednesday boss. Alright. We're gonna take another break. Talk TWiTitter. When we get back. Maybe I shouldn't tell people that. No, we're not gonna talk TWiTitter. We'll talk about scary clowns. When we come back, that's better than TWiTitter and Alan, Melvin Tono is here. Sub Mariner. What was your highest security clearance?

Allyn Malventano (01:44:36):

Leo Laporte (01:44:36):
What's that mean you can, you can look at a wow SC document.

Allyn Malventano (01:44:42):
The special compartmented information. Yeah. So it's so usually there's, there's not usually just like a regular top secret. Like usually the things that our top secret are compartmented, that's the idea, right? Yeah. It's like, okay, here's this, here's this group, all these things are top secret, but they're all categorized in various things. And so like, you don't just get, it's

Leo Laporte (01:45:02):
Need to know. It's need to know

Allyn Malventano (01:45:04):
It's it's a, it's a form of need to know. Right. It's it's, there's no such thing as really just, oh, you just get to look at everything. No, it's like, okay, you're working on this project. You get this particular S sci grade, you know, thing where you're allowed to go and look at that stuff. Just that pertains to what you're

Leo Laporte (01:45:19):
Doing. I saw like

Padre (01:45:20):
The apple design lab similar, lower,

Allyn Malventano (01:45:23):
Higher. I mean, it, I, I would imagine it's probably, I mean, it's, it's any, it's any sort of, Hey, you're trying to keep various things secret. Yeah. And you know, there's really no such thing as just everybody gets to look at everything. Right. Like that applies in a lot of places. Yes. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:45:38):
Even here there's there. I know. Doesn't know. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (01:45:42):
There, there, there are lower ones that are like more general. Right,

Leo Laporte (01:45:47):
Right. But Ts CI is the top, right? That's the, yeah.

Allyn Malventano (01:45:50):
That's the

Leo Laporte (01:45:50):
Top. I remember seeing John Brennan, the former CIA director saying there's Ts S C documents. I couldn't see even as director of CIA, because it's need to know that makes sense. Anyway everything that we say here, a Malano is allowed to know

Padre (01:46:08):
What are the, what were the aliens? What were they rated

Leo Laporte (01:46:10):

Padre (01:46:11):
Was that need, was that need to know? Was that, did

Leo Laporte (01:46:13):
You take any documents home?

Allyn Malventano (01:46:14):
They get all the clearances.

Leo Laporte (01:46:15):
Did you take a box of documents home with you? That's all. I care. Absolutely.

Padre (01:46:18):
They're flying sources in your garage.

Leo Laporte (01:46:22):
And were you

Padre (01:46:23):
Metal not known

Leo Laporte (01:46:24):
By the queen? I just wanna know. Oh

Allyn Malventano (01:46:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. <Laugh>

All (01:46:28):

Leo Laporte (01:46:33):
Oh yes. The queen of Mars, father, Robert Ballas air digital Jesuit our man in the Vatican.

Padre (01:46:42):
I also have an SSCI clearance, but it's just information that no one cares about. Does

Leo Laporte (01:46:46):
I bet the Vatican has some sort of top secret thing, right? Designation. Yes or no. He can't talk about it. If he knew he wouldn't have, I

Padre (01:46:57):
Mean, there's one about 40 feet away that way.

Leo Laporte (01:47:01):
<Laugh> what, what is it?

Padre (01:47:03):
Our, our archives.

Leo Laporte (01:47:05):
Oh, nobody's allowed in.

Padre (01:47:08):
No, just to certain parts. Yes, then.

Leo Laporte (01:47:12):
No. So there's stuff and yes, in the Jesuit archives that even you couldn't go in and, and say, Hey, can I borrow that? I wanna take that home.

Padre (01:47:22):
That's correct. That is correct way too fragile.

Leo Laporte (01:47:25):
Well, that would, I'm sure

Padre (01:47:26):
That too. Yes. Yeah. A lot of the documents are fragile, but also there are certain levels. We, we don't call it declassification, but there's information that the church has to decide. You can make this available, this available, this available. And it generally falls a regular schedule. But it, as a result, it means there's information there that we, the public cannot see is there. It's not it's fair week

Leo Laporte (01:47:50):
That you've never told us about like, are you hiding at eighth? Is there on the week or something? <Laugh> you secretly holding on to the eighth day?

Padre (01:48:00):
That's right. That's

Leo Laporte (01:48:01):
Right. Yeah. On the eighth

Padre (01:48:02):
Day. But now that you

Leo Laporte (01:48:03):
Know that he had a party, listen, there's a few extra

Allyn Malventano (01:48:06):
Books of the Bible. Nobody knows about

Leo Laporte (01:48:08):
Some of it is some of it. So let me, this is a weird question. And again, you can laugh at me is some of it not available to public cuz it's evil.

Padre (01:48:21):
No, no.

Leo Laporte (01:48:23):
Whoa. There's not like some witchcraft manual that they feel like, no, it's not, we know it's BS, but we wouldn't want people. We wanna destroy that in the doctor. Strange movie, Leo. That's what I thought. But I was just wanted to make sure that the Jesuits didn't have a copy.

Padre (01:48:37):
There there's no witchcraft manuals, but there would be information about investigations on stuff like that.

Leo Laporte (01:48:46):
Oh, interesting.

Allyn Malventano (01:48:49):
Yeah. Way, way back.

Leo Laporte (01:48:50):
Yeah. Yeah. Well that's the thing. I mean, let's go back a thousand years, right? There's ancient. Do historians. Occasionally say, can I, can we look at this stuff?

Padre (01:48:59):
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's why we built the archives. There's actually places where you can go in and you can think it's fascinating. You can't just run rummage through the stacks, but you have to ask, I'm looking for something specific and then the people in the archives can actually find what you're looking for and they'll bring it out to you.

Leo Laporte (01:49:13):
I love that. I think that's great.

Padre (01:49:16):
Yeah. But it is CI. So you can only look at it in there. <Laugh> you have to be in there and

Leo Laporte (01:49:21):
They do not

Padre (01:49:22):
Let you take it outta

Leo Laporte (01:49:22):
Secret compartment in the Vatican. A skiff is shielded, right from even electromagnetic ESP, B I

Allyn Malventano (01:49:34):
SROP. Yes. Skiffs will usually have like chicken wire in the walls. Wow. Literally. Wow. And not only that, but if it's, if it's like a building that had like a drop ceiling or you know, the little panels you can remove in the ceiling. Yeah. Like sealed there's there's literally the wall continues. Yeah. Like it's it's all that <laugh> there's no

Leo Laporte (01:49:51):

Rene Ritchie (01:49:52):
It's solid. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (01:49:54):
Yeah. There's no crawling around you. Of those mission

Rene Ritchie (01:49:56):
Possible movies were fake. Yeah. So disappointed.

Leo Laporte (01:49:59):
Is it, is it Tempest? Is that what they call it? The Tempest certified stuff. That's the Tempest was the technology to let you listen through walls or read like read screens through walls and stuff like that.

Allyn Malventano (01:50:12):
Oh, that was like a project. Wasn't it?

Leo Laporte (01:50:14):

Rene Ritchie (01:50:15):
Temp, zoom enhance zoom. Enhance. Yeah. <Laugh> that's what I want. That's what CSI promised me. Zoom enhance.

Leo Laporte (01:50:23):
That's the next license

Rene Ritchie (01:50:25):
Plate from the space? No, it's every mission. Impossible. Like Tom cruise would be in the ceiling and now I know that's impossible.

Leo Laporte (01:50:30):
I can't

Rene Ritchie (01:50:31):
Do it. It'd been lied to you for have you guys have

Allyn Malventano (01:50:33):
You guys messed with some of the, the Topaz labs tools though?

Leo Laporte (01:50:36):
They're pretty amazing.

Allyn Malventano (01:50:37):
Some of that stuff is surprisingly good. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:50:41):

Allyn Malventano (01:50:41):
It's not to the scifi level yet, but holy crap. It's like, where did it? Where'd that detail

Leo Laporte (01:50:46):
Come from? Well, you've seen now with these artificial intelligence painting programs like Dolly can do Dolly TWiTo has added out painting where they take the, in fact, if you go to Dolly TWiTo website, you could see this, the girl with girl earring. And they say, well, what did the rest of the room look like? <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:51:04):
And they Leo, we don't, we don't even know if Alex Lindsay is real anymore. He might have programmed himself like a year ago. Like we might be having a V YouTuber, Alex Lindsay for the last year.

Leo Laporte (01:51:12):
Yeah. Long ago. He did that. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (01:51:15):
It wasn't, it wasn't too long ago. We were all amazed by the content aware filter or content aware.

Leo Laporte (01:51:20):
Yes, I

Allyn Malventano (01:51:20):
Know on Photoshop. Right. And then they added it's

Rene Ritchie (01:51:24):
Totally that blue mind,

Leo Laporte (01:51:25):
But don't you wanna live in a world of wonders, like where like the next iPhone thing that we, what we really want is how did they do that? How can they do that? That's why I think people are so interested in AR well,

Rene Ritchie (01:51:37):
The pixel eraser was like that. Like they take a picture and just paint people out of existence. And then they actually disappeared. It's it's

Leo Laporte (01:51:43):
And for years they actually disappeared. Like Thanos for,

Rene Ritchie (01:51:46):
Yeah. For,

Leo Laporte (01:51:47):
For years they talked about it. They only put it in the phone a couple of years after they announced it. Yeah. Yeah. Our show today brought to you by coal lied. I like this sponsor because I like the idea of treating users, like partners, not enemies, you know, if you're, you know, if you are in trying to achieve security in your company you, yeah. Like, you know, you wanna have, keep the bad guys out and the good guys in whether for a third party audit or your own compliance standards in the past, the conventional wisdom is to basically treat each device like Fort Knox, right? You glue up the USB ports yet. You make sure people don't bring their own phones, their own laptops into the enterprise. You use old school device management tools, MDMs to force, you know, basically employees to give up their freedom, to give up their performance, to give up their privacy.

Leo Laporte (01:52:44):
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Leo Laporte (01:53:38):
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Leo Laporte (01:55:17):
So TWiTitter is still in the news. Let's just give you a quick rundown. Of course. Remember Peter Zco the former much, the former security director. Did you know much had you run into him at Def con or black hat? Father Robert. Everyone knows much. Yeah, well known. He worked for the D O D. He worked for Google. He was a very, you know, when that, when TWiTitter hired him, I was impressed. They hired him in the aftermath of that. H you know, where remember that Barack Obama and Elon Musk and everybody were TWiTeeting, Hey, I really I really appreciate what you've done for me. So just send me some Bitcoin. I'll send it back doubled. Okay. <Laugh> remember that. And I mean, it was horrific. It was obviously somebody had access to a, a, a, a privileged account within TWiTitter.

Leo Laporte (01:56:12):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> that let you TWiTeet on anybody's behalf. Cuz the same TWiTeet went out on dozens of high profile accounts. So that immediately showed that TWiTitter had a problem. They hired much to come in and fix it. And then they fired mud after Elon's offer in January. I think they got rid of mud. They didn't say why they'd fired him. Although later per agro wall, the current CEO of TWiTitter said we fired him cuz he was no good. I, he was a lazy slab. I mean he said all sorts of mad things about him. Now they're saying in the so, so of course Elon Musk has subpoenaed much. He says, this is evidence that, you know, TWiTitter cares not about the bots and, and hear this whistleblower selling us that. Meanwhile TWiTitter's saying, look, Mudge never to never flagged spam. He never, he never, we hired him to fix the things that he's complaining about.

Leo Laporte (01:57:08):
How could he complain about it? This is what he was brought in to fix that ain't our fault. And finally the latest is the payout. The se apparently TWiTitter paid much $7 million. Now Elon says, oh, oh you did, did you? Oh, well then that means I'm out of the deal because that's what we call an Mae, a material adverse event. And that lets me off the hooks. Elon's been trying to, he keeps trying to find a way to get out. This clearly does not wanna spend 44 billion. And I think he's honestly, I think at this point he's just grasping at any straw he can. So do you think you could sell him TWiTI instead? Like I think he noticed the difference selling 44 billion. That's all would take Elon actually. You know what? That's a good retirement. Leo I'll give him a deal. 43. You're shorter 40. Exactly.

Padre (01:58:05):
Well, your name is shorter, so

Leo Laporte (01:58:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Few fewer letters. You can do anything you want. You could chase the spammers out. You can, you know what? You can bring Donald Trump in and give him a show, whatever you want, 43 billion, that's it.

Padre (01:58:20):
You know, we've got Elon's communications back into early may where he was already looking for a way out of the deal

Leo Laporte (01:58:27):
He had, he sent a letter to his media. He said a letter to his banker. Yeah. Before the Putin speech back way back in what was that? May mm-hmm he said maybe we should slow down this acquisition in case we're heading to world Wari. Oh yeah, sure. That's what's yeah. You wouldn't wanna buy TWiTitter if we're headed to world war three,

Padre (01:58:52):
He had immediate immediate buyer's remorse instant and this predates all of his complaints about bots or spam or mud. So it's, I mean, anyone who's observing this objectively knows, oh this was a man who regretted what he did, who regretted that he had everybody signed the contracts for the deal he squirm is looking for a way to get out. He S

Leo Laporte (01:59:12):

Padre (01:59:14):
Which is that's his right. He can do that. But by the same token, this is the conversation we had earlier about the, the Musk super fans. They make it so difficult to have an intelligent civil conversation about his, his responsibilities. I mean, you signed a contract without actually going and doing your due diligence. You should not be rewarded for that. Yeah. People should not think that you are a smart businessman for doing that and yeah, you should have to pay the penalty for

Leo Laporte (01:59:41):
That. So the, the trial is next month. We we've been covering it. I'm kind of less and less. Yeah. Motivated to talk about it. It's pretty clear at this point. What happened? Elon, I think, do you think at any point he genuinely wanted to buy TWiTitter or was first five minutes? I, yeah, for five it was very brief. Yeah.

Padre (02:00:03):
<Laugh> I, I think when he was getting all the accolades about how he was gonna free TWiTitter yeah. He thought it was a great idea. And then someone actually said, Hey, you know, you're like way overpaid for that thing. Right. Yeah. And then he started actually doing the numbers and realizing I will never ever make this back. Yeah. It's not a chance that TWiTitter will ever make this in revenue.

Leo Laporte (02:00:25):
Hmm. All right. Yep. This all seems to be of a piece Elizabeth Holmes also squirming, as you may remember, found guilty of defrauding investors with the Theranos scam. Now the first they asked the judge, oh, just throw it out. The judge said, no <laugh> no, I don't think so. We're getting close to sentencing coming up. Now, now she says there's newly discovered evidence that the former the former lab director at Theranos regrets, his testimony, he testified against her at the court, Adam Rose Andorf regrets, regrets, his testimony. He testified for several days in the, in the trial. You may remember if you've been following this emphasized the pressure Theranos employees were under to demonstrate the faulty technology actually worked, even though it didn't on the witness stand. He said, I felt that it was a question on my integrity as a physician, not to remain there and to continue to bolster results. I essentially didn't have faith in et cetera, et cetera. Now, her attorneys are claiming that rose Andorf called Elizabeth Holmes on August 8th, left a voicemail in a desperate bid, say the lawyers to communicate. He felt he had done something wrong, apparently in connection with Ms. Holmes trial. So they're saying, you see, you see judge, he regretted it. Now you should too. They want a retrial under rule 33. We'll see. I think this is just more squirming.

Allyn Malventano (02:02:12):
I don't think any amount of regret or retrials is going to negate the fraud.

Leo Laporte (02:02:17):

Allyn Malventano (02:02:17):
That occurred.

Leo Laporte (02:02:18):

Padre (02:02:18):
Exactly. And the statements that this employee made don't touch on the fraud, he basically said he felt that they weren't interested in solving the problems. That's not the fraud. The fraud is that they were selling a product. They knew that did not work so right. His statements don't affect that at all. They might affect the degree to which someone will would say that they were continuing and perpetuating the fraud, but that's not what she was convicted on.

Leo Laporte (02:02:43):
Her boyfriend, Sunday Baldwin also convicted. He's not squirming, his heart apparently sentencing for Elizabeth Holmes which was scheduled for later this month was delayed till October 17th. Because they wanna see how it goes with Elon and TWiTitter, I guess. I don't know, October 17th. <Laugh> that's the same day as the Elon trial begins. I mean she could get 20 years. I don't, I doubt she will.

Padre (02:03:12):
Well, I mean, she defrauded a lot of very rich people. Yeah. And

Allyn Malventano (02:03:16):

Leo Laporte (02:03:16):
That's a good point

Allyn Malventano (02:03:17):
Out of a lot of money. Have

Leo Laporte (02:03:19):
A lot of money.

Padre (02:03:20):
Yeah, exactly.

Allyn Malventano (02:03:20):
Lot of money. Yeah. Very.

Padre (02:03:22):
And if you're gonna cheat people make sure that they're poor and they don't have any legal recourse. Right. You don't cheat

Leo Laporte (02:03:26):
Billions only cheap, poor they'll get you only cheap. Poor. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. so a lot of, lot of cryptocurrency news I think a lot of cryptocurrency experts would very much like it. If the S sec would finally decide, is this a security are there gonna be regulations? The latest is the treasury is about to recommend issuing a digital dollar, but only if it's in the national interest. Well, that's good. You wouldn't wanna do it if it's not. Have you ever

Rene Ritchie (02:04:02):
Seen the YouTube channel coffee Zillow, Leo?

Leo Laporte (02:04:04):

Allyn Malventano (02:04:05):
He's great.

Rene Ritchie (02:04:06):
Oh, it, he breaks down. Yeah. He breaks down crypto schemes and suits and just all the time. It is, it is incredibly entertaining to watch and maddening at the same time.

Allyn Malventano (02:04:19):
Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>

Leo Laporte (02:04:21):
It's pretty nonstop, isn't it?

Allyn Malventano (02:04:23):
Yes. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:04:26):

Allyn Malventano (02:04:26):
I mean, it's, it's kind of the same thing as the whole SIM card thing we're talking about earlier. Right? Like, wouldn't it be nice if you just didn't have to deal with physical money anymore? Although we kind of already don't. I

Leo Laporte (02:04:39):
Feel like, yeah. I'm not sure what a digital dollar means. Are they, would

Allyn Malventano (02:04:44):
They, I think they mean blockchain secured, what wise, as opposed to right. Just

Leo Laporte (02:04:48):
Some sort of stable coin.

Allyn Malventano (02:04:50):
Yeah. Like, I mean, I mean today, the fact that your money is in the bank is just a number in and their database versus yeah. An actual, you

Leo Laporte (02:04:58):
Know, ah, so really they're saying decentralized ledger more than a

Allyn Malventano (02:05:01):
Digital, I think that's, I think that's what they're mean by like a digital dollar. Okay. In that context.

Leo Laporte (02:05:07):
Yeah. yeah, that's in, that's interesting. It but I

Padre (02:05:12):
Mean that, that doesn't really replace the cryptocurrency function as a speculative financial tool. That's, that's the power of crypto. That's why people get so enamored because since it's not really tied to traditional banking, it can go as high or as low as people are willing to, to make it, it is a digital junk bond. So issuing a digital dollar doesn't really fix that problem or that, that advantage if that's how you're looking at it.

Allyn Malventano (02:05:38):
So right. Yeah. That just, it's just, that's just a different form of a dollar in that context.

Rene Ritchie (02:05:43):
What are they trying to fix? Like if they're trying to fix getting more sure. Like getting more money from us, then maybe they're, it's a solution that they really want. Cause they've managed to do that over the last five amazingly well, from

Leo Laporte (02:05:54):
Our money, this comes out of president Biden's executive order last March mm-hmm <affirmative> that said, give, give me some crypto recommendations. They, this went to multiple departments. The treasury is, this is the Treasury's document is not out yet, but they expected to say yeah, digital dollar would work if it's in the national interest. It's like, it's like, that's, that's a non recommendation recommendation.

Padre (02:06:20):
So this fixes one specific thing that people wanted to use crypto for. And that was the ability to transfer amount around finances, resources very quickly. And without regulation, the digital dollar gives 'em the ability to do that without having to use a super speculative tool where I might buy X amount of Bitcoin. And by the time I've transferred, it, it has risen or dropped 20% in value, a digital dollar because it is backed by the fed is more like a stable coin. So it, yeah, it's going to maintain its value. It's pegged to the dollar. So it's just a non-physical dollar, which means you can count on all the traditional banking systems being able to calculate exactly how much it's gonna cost to move from point a to point B. But again, that does not fulfill any of the financial speculative tool features of cryptocurrency. And wouldn't it

Rene Ritchie (02:07:13):
Be regulated at that point as well?

Padre (02:07:15):
Absolutely. And

Leo Laporte (02:07:16):
It should be, I think it should be regulated as a security. It, I mean,

Allyn Malventano (02:07:19):
There have been, there have been attempts to do a dollar tied crypto for that same, you know, first part of what, what Padre was just saying there, right? Like somebody wants a thing that's not going to drastically rise or fall, you know, within the next five minutes before you go and actually use that, that currency for something you wanted to do you know, that would've been akin to using a us dollar for it. Right. I mean, there is literally a thing called tether. Like us DT is the yeah, correct. You know, is the code for it. Right. And the intent there was for it to be a dollar tied thing, but then there's this constant you you're just barrage with, well, we don't, it's not actually tied to the dollar and there's all this sort of

Leo Laporte (02:08:01):
Like shenanigans we're going on. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:08:03):
Yeah. It becomes speculative. Even when it wasn't supposed to be speculative. Right.

Leo Laporte (02:08:08):
Supposed to stable. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:08:08):
Right. So, so it might, it might actually be handy if you had, you know, the government behind the dollar said, okay, fine. Let's, let's dispel with all of that speculation piece of, if somebody wants a cryptocurrency that is actually tied to the dollar, the us government would be the people to do that. Right.

Leo Laporte (02:08:26):
Cause the, the idea really is we can, yeah, we could do this and maybe their hope is, and that would get rid of all the others. Maybe like we,

Allyn Malventano (02:08:33):
I don't know,

Padre (02:08:35):
It would get rid of the stable coins. So, so the stable coins, which the other cryptos used that peg themselves to the dollar would become redundant if the us was actually creating a digital currency. Yeah, yeah. Correct. Yes. It would be the dollar. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:08:47):
And, and government banks all over the world have been looking at the idea of issuing digital coins, stable coins. They always would be tired. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> some sort of stable currency. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:08:58):
If you, I mean, it does make sense, right? Yeah. I mean, in, in, in the context of, you know, if I'd asked for recommendations and that was one of them, I mean, I can see, you

Leo Laporte (02:09:05):
Know, somebody making, but for a normal person like me, does this change anything? I mean

Allyn Malventano (02:09:12):
There'd be, there'd be a few less things that you thought would've been a stable coin that you might

Leo Laporte (02:09:18):
Have. I think about, I spend zero time thinking. Right. Thinking about stable coin. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:09:23):
<Laugh> right. It's I think

Leo Laporte (02:09:25):
It's potentially more like when I'm walking down potentially, you know, Petaluma Boulevard down main street would I be jingling some digital coin in my pocket? No. Cuz it's digital. Your digital wallet. Would I pay for everything with my watch and phone? I haven't it's I don't

Padre (02:09:40):
It's just the dollar,

Leo Laporte (02:09:41):
The already or digital dollar. It's already digital. Isn't it? That's what that's what's confusing to me. Yeah. It's just, there would be a distributed ledger. Is that the idea? Watch coffee Zillow. Leo you'll really enjoy it. <Laugh> by the way, if you search, if you search on Google for E theory merge.

Allyn Malventano (02:09:58):
Oh yeah. That's

Leo Laporte (02:09:59):
Thing Google, Google has now put a countdown up three days, TWiTo hours. 37 minutes.

Allyn Malventano (02:10:05):

Leo Laporte (02:10:06):
We're we're counting down to the Ethereum merge. This is Ethereum attempting to move from proof of work to proof of stake, a much lower use of energy to do its calculations.

Allyn Malventano (02:10:21):
Oh. And by much lower, like I'm not sure if 99 Mer happens. It's yeah. It's like a ridiculous small fraction. Yeah. Yeah. Of, of the, yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:10:30):
As far as I could tell, I'm no expert on this. It's the way a proof of work is operates now is, is that all the minors get to get a chance to try to solve this problem. The first one who, who does gets the fee

Padre (02:10:45):

Leo Laporte (02:10:45):
For the transaction gets the reward. So that's why minor that's what's going on. That's why minors, mine, minors, all

Padre (02:10:50):
Those other calculations are wasted energy. Yeah. That's

Leo Laporte (02:10:53):
The problem minors. You know, I think sometimes we think minors are mining for coin. They're not mining to create new coin. I mean, some might be mostly minors when I guess maybe they're doing that too. But mostly what they're trying to do is, is, is is put transactions into the, into the ledger, right into the blockchain and, and the, a winning minor gets to do that and makes some money. So that's what the whole mining thing is. Yeah. But all the other calculations wasted. So proof of stake roughly works the same way, except instead of saying, here's the problem, anybody work on it, they choose one person to work on it, that person, and they have some sort of lottery system, I guess, to choose it. That person solves the problem makes the money, it considerably reduce the distributed energy

Allyn Malventano (02:11:36):
It's distributed among the stakeholders versus among the workers.

Leo Laporte (02:11:40):

Allyn Malventano (02:11:41):
Just to put it simply right.

Leo Laporte (02:11:42):
Does it solve, does any of the other problems of cryptocurrency?

Padre (02:11:47):
It actually adds a problem.

Allyn Malventano (02:11:49):

Padre (02:11:50):
Because proof of stake is actually easier to fake than proof of work. So there was already an attack on a very, I can't remember what was the name of the, the, the, the crypto that, that blockchain's already gone? Someone borrowed enough of the cryptocurrency to have 50%. Oh,

Leo Laporte (02:12:12):
The 51% attack. Yeah. Right.

Padre (02:12:15):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and, and then they basically rewrote the ledger to say, well, it's all coming to me.

Leo Laporte (02:12:19):
It's all mine now, baby. Yeah.

Padre (02:12:21):
Right. So that's, I mean, that's, that, that only happened because that particular cryptocurrency was super young and there was, there wasn't that much stake. And you're not gonna see that in high volume cryptocurrencies, but that is a possibility that if, if you're not looking for people who are trying to abuse the system, it is significantly easier to get that 50% plus one.

Leo Laporte (02:12:42):
Does it slow down the transactions? You only have one minor working on at a time? No.

Allyn Malventano (02:12:50):
No, because the, the difficulty goes to basically zero. Ah, like the,

Leo Laporte (02:12:55):
Yeah. So it, so that's one thing it would help cuz the speed of transactions has really gone up.

Allyn Malventano (02:13:01):
Oh yeah. You could, you could literally compute the next block in the chain for, for ether on a smartphone.

Leo Laporte (02:13:06):
Okay. Oh good. So proof of stake speeds up transactions. Does it reduce gas fees? Cuz that's the other problem? The cost of, of putting these transactions in the ledger can be so high to, is to make it pointless.

Allyn Malventano (02:13:21):
The gas, the gas fees are based on throttling. Like because there can only be so much in a block. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and so you're trying to, if the, if they're, you're trying to add too much data to the chain per unit time, right? Because each block is basically roughly a per unit time. Right. The ether blockchain tries to run at a constant, you know, a fixed rate. Right. And it tries to regulate itself right now it regulates itself by adjusting the difficulty. Right. Right. In the future, it doesn't need to do that. It just does it by other means. But for now it's just, well just make it harder or easier to figure out the next block. Right. The next answer, the next solution to the next block. Right. but the gas fees would still have to exist for the sake of regulating data rate on the chain. Right. so it

Leo Laporte (02:14:07):
Doesn't affect,

Allyn Malventano (02:14:08):
So that's still gonna be a thing.

Leo Laporte (02:14:08):
It doesn't, it doesn't change the

Allyn Malventano (02:14:11):
Problems. Right. And gases

Leo Laporte (02:14:12):
Theoretical limit gas. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:14:15):
Gases get burned and there's gonna be fewer block rewards now since there's not gonna be mining. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, which actually means that the, you know, the amount of ether that exists is going to decrease over time eventually.

Leo Laporte (02:14:31):
Oh interesting. Okay.

Allyn Malventano (02:14:32):
Yeah. There will be fewer. So instead of making more

Leo Laporte (02:14:36):
Isn't that I inflationary does that not make it inflationary?

Allyn Malventano (02:14:39):
I mean, I don't know to what degree it depends on how, how much gases get piled up and everything else that, you know, works as a thing to, to make either be go away, right. Go into the ether.

Leo Laporte (02:14:49):
<Laugh> so this is, this is, this is Mo sounds mostly like a good idea. But there are things that could go wrong and there are plenty of people who make money as Bitcoin mins who think this is a terrible idea and they, I mean,

Allyn Malventano (02:15:03):
You're gonna,

Leo Laporte (02:15:04):
Yeah. You're

Allyn Malventano (02:15:04):
Gonna have those people that have, yeah. There's gonna be people that have invested insane amounts of money and into hardware and they wanna keep, you know, using that investment. It's

Leo Laporte (02:15:11):
Good for those of us who are trying to buy GPUs, but yep. <Laugh> but so, so their ether E will almost certainly fork. They have been te you know, just like NASA tests before they launch a rocket, they've been doing tests of the merge, the 13th and final shadow fork executed today. I don't know what I'm saying with no apparent issues actually. That was September 9th. So the, the forks, the forks have worked. So there is, I mean, there's, it could be a disaster, but it looks like all, all signs, point to a positive change the murder. Are you saying it's like the good place and we're all fork. <Laugh> we're all forked. We may be forked. The Ethereum maintenance 13th shadow fork went live earlier on the ninth without a hitch. So it looks like everything's gonna be good. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. It possibly go wrong. <Laugh> all right. Meanwhile, the value of ether's been going up over the last few weeks. I think people see this. I don't know what could go wrong cuz Padre won't let me see the books that tell us <laugh> that's right? Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:16:26):
It's been, it's been

Leo Laporte (02:16:27):

Allyn Malventano (02:16:29):

Leo Laporte (02:16:30):
<Laugh> we've we've we've got all the predictions. We know exactly what's gonna happen and low. They fork the E

Allyn Malventano (02:16:35):

Leo Laporte (02:16:36):
<Laugh>. All right. Next week we are gonna get some financial experts on to talk about the merge and what happened. I feel like we're they'll tell us how bad we were discussion. It

Allyn Malventano (02:16:48):

Leo Laporte (02:16:49):
Immediately how bad we did. I'm sure. Yeah. This is like the Elon Musk conversation. If you don't show enough loyalty to cryptocurrency, you certainly are gonna be an outcast, but

Allyn Malventano (02:17:04):
All right, Leo, what do you wanna know about this octane stuff?

Leo Laporte (02:17:06):
<Laugh> Optain potatoes.

Allyn Malventano (02:17:08):
Let's get it all

Leo Laporte (02:17:09):
Over with. So Intel, I remember, boy, I was excited when Intel announced what would they call it? Not CrossFit, cross

Allyn Malventano (02:17:17):

Leo Laporte (02:17:18):

Allyn Malventano (02:17:20):

Leo Laporte (02:17:21):
Crossfit, the new, the newest Ram Crosspoint, which was a 3d technology for making memory and everybody.

Allyn Malventano (02:17:32):
Well, I mean, I mean, we're doing that now on NAND anyway,

Leo Laporte (02:17:35):
Anyway. Okay.

Allyn Malventano (02:17:36):
Right. I mean, there's literally hundreds of layers in NAND now. So NAND is very much 3d.

Leo Laporte (02:17:41):
Oh. So I was all excited. I mean, when, when did they announce this five, five or six years ago and 2015. And they branded it Optain and the promise of it was what faster, cheaper, what were they, what was the hope for, for 3d cross?

Allyn Malventano (02:18:00):
So cheaper than Ram, right? What was the idea cheaper than basically it sat in beTWiTeen Ram and solid state, traditional solid storage.

Leo Laporte (02:18:10):
And that's how in Intel has been selling, obtain, which is, is it Ram? Is it solid state? Yes.

Allyn Malventano (02:18:16):
Yeah. They've been selling well, they were selling both types of devices. Right. There were it's both. There was, there was a, there was a dim form factor that was sort of sit alongside the Ram in a server. And you can make a very large memory pool where the, the DRAM is actually like a Cing layer on top of the Optain dims, which were, you know, sort of the, the, the, the memory pool, if you would. Right. But slower than what DRAM was, obviously, because there's, you know, there's always a catch, right. You can't get something for nothing. So that was one, you know, one solution. And then the other solution was you take the same chips or basically the same chips and you stick them behind a SSD controller and connect it to P C you, now, you, I drive now you have a regular drive. Right. So they were covering, you know, both, both types of of forms there. Right. but there was just someday, there's gonna be like a Harvard business school study or some kind of like somebody's at some, point's gonna have to put something together that just sort of covers here's all of the things that were against it.

Leo Laporte (02:19:18):
This is my question. Is it a market problem or a technology problem that killed Optain it

Allyn Malventano (02:19:24):
Was kind of a little bit of everything. Oh, in my opinion, at least. Right. You had, you had just sort of the fundamentals, right. You had this thing that was so much faster than what was there, traditionally, as far as the S TWiTice

Leo Laporte (02:19:39):
As fast as regular SSDs, it's like doubling the speed.

Allyn Malventano (02:19:43):
Oh, way. Faster than double, even more. Oh yeah. The latency, when, when, when theta devices came out, the latency was roughly like the re latency was like one 10th of a regular SSD. Wow. Right. But it, you know, speaking as far as like, well, how does that impact the whole system? Right. If you make a thing that just goes 10 times as fast, suddenly the bottleneck shifts anywhere else, it's

Leo Laporte (02:20:07):
Now an IO IO. Bottleneck.

Allyn Malventano (02:20:09):
Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's everything other than the IO, right? Like it's, you know, if you, if, if you can make the IO one 10th to the speed or one 10th of time to complete, then all of a sudden, if there was any other bottleneck or any other inefficiency, even with the, be it with the kernel, you know, the sofTWiTare, the application, trying to access the thing. Right. Sort of it sort of shifted the burden everywhere else, all of a sudden. And it was a matter of, well, how fast can you possibly make and SS D like a P C I E S SD that plugs into the system. And there is sort of a, a glass ceiling there where it's like, well, you know, the controller can only go so fast just to negotiate, to communicate on the PCI bus takes a few microseconds.

Allyn Malventano (02:20:54):
Right. So if you have a thing that could, that, that can operate in 10 or fewer microseconds and the PCI, just speaking PCI express, consumes, say, I don't know, a third or half of that. Right. Like, you know, what, what was previously a very small fraction of a regular traditional SSD response time was now very significant. Right. and so when you combined all that stuff together, just, you know, that's just, that's just only speaking to the point of how much faster can, you know, was the user experience for it in the SSD form factor. Right. So it took literally years for everything else to sort of progress. And for other, other pieces of the puzzle there to, to become faster around those devices in order for the system to shine more and more, you know, because of those devices. Right.

Leo Laporte (02:21:49):
So it's just ahead of its time, why not keep it around until

Allyn Malventano (02:21:53):
There was, there was, there was so much more, there was so much more just working against it really the whole time. Right. And, and there was also, it was, the price was high. Right. you know, did it, did it make yeah. But

Leo Laporte (02:22:06):
If it's TWiTo and a half times faster, I don't care if it's TWiTice as expensive. Right.

Allyn Malventano (02:22:11):
Right. And, and granted, there were still people, you know, right near the end, there was the last, the last SSD that Intel made that had obtain in it, the like, like traditional SD wise was a P 5,800 X. There's just a fire breathing SSD. Right. The thing was just super fast. For the first time they had shifted to a, like previously the controllers were even a bottleneck because in order to take most advantage of the low latencies, they sort of had to kneecap themselves on what was the highest throughput you could get from the device. Right. So the earlier obtain devices, couldn't even saturate gen three PCI express. Right. You have a, a bus that should go nearly four gig per second, but the devices were only going TWiTo. Right. So if you, and actually Leo, I think you had like a 900 P yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:22:57):
At one point, yeah. Right. That drive would only do 2.2 or 2.4 gig per second. Basically it was bottlenecked by its own controller. Wow. Throughput wise, right. The latencies were amazing, but pure throughput, you know, there was sort of this ceiling there. And so that P 5,000 X, when it came out was amazing. Cuz they finally did a controller where it could just go full speed of the bus. It just didn't care. There was no longer an Achilles heel as far as, oh, it's, it's fast here, but it's not fast here. Like that thing just annihilated everything. However, it was expensive. Yeah. But

Leo Laporte (02:23:31):
Boy, it seems like that's, it, it feels like they killed something before it really had a chance to live up to its potential. I don't,

Allyn Malventano (02:23:39):
I guess, but like you're talking what seven, eight years.

Leo Laporte (02:23:43):

Allyn Malventano (02:23:45):
So like, so

Leo Laporte (02:23:46):
Will we eventually have memory that's as fast as this

Allyn Malventano (02:23:51):
Kind of, I mean, I don't think, I don't know how long it will take for somebody else to do a Crosspoint style media. Right. So as far as, you know, will we see another media come out that's as fast. That was as fast as octane media wise? I don't know. Might take a few years if it does, who knows there. So, but there are some, there are some aspects of the storage community and industry that the, the mere presence of Optain as a technology helped drive. And one of the big ones is CXL right. Computer express link. Right. Which was sort of the industry trying to solve, you know, the issue of, Hey, if you have really fast media that sits at a different tier from DRAM, how do you connect it to the system? How do you integrate it with the operating system? How do you take advantage of it in a, in a more, you know, appropriate way? The funny thing about this is if CXL just appeared out of nowhere, say seven years ago, Intel would probably would probably have not announced, you know, stopping Crosspoint. Interesting. Right. It probably interesting probably would've been profitable because there was just this easy, here's this better way to connect it to the system and take full advantage of it. Right. But that wasn't, there is this big chicken in the egg right. You know, dilemma of the,

Leo Laporte (02:25:09):
What about something like Apple's doing with, or, or the Xbox with unified memory then you don't have to worry about the bus so much. Right. what if we mean don't have to worry about

Allyn Malventano (02:25:23):
Yes, but you still have to worry about the, the, the performance capabilities of the different tiers. In other words, like how are you attaching? Right. Even if you have a different, a different sort of,

Leo Laporte (02:25:34):
You still have kind of a bus, it's an internal to the dive.

Allyn Malventano (02:25:36):
Yeah. You're still, there's still a physical thing to be solved. Yeah. Right. I feel,

Leo Laporte (02:25:41):

Allyn Malventano (02:25:41):
You have sofTWiTare piece is important.

Leo Laporte (02:25:43):
So I guess the question everybody, or certainly I had was, is this a failure on Intel to capitalize on what was a good technology or was this not such a great technology or it sounds like it was a good technology. It was, it was maybe too good. The

Allyn Malventano (02:25:58):
Technology, the technology was great. Died

Leo Laporte (02:26:01):
Too young, too

Allyn Malventano (02:26:02):
Good. It was expensive. It was expensive to make. Yeah. I would imagine. I don't even know the actual numbers. I never,

Leo Laporte (02:26:08):
So that's part of the problem.

Allyn Malventano (02:26:09):
What's cool about that, but it could not have been cheap to make it right. I mean, I, so before I even started working for Intel, I wrote the article at PC perspective of how I did all the, the deep dive on you know, is SCC filings and things from years prior where basically I figured out that, Hey, this stuff is actually just phase change memory. Right. <laugh> even though Intel, when it first launched would swear up and down that it wasn't, they didn't wanna say it was for, I still don't know what the reason was. But you know, the technology itself was amazing. And I would even say like, you know, I mean, face change memory for, for decades was like the flying car of PC storage. Yeah. Right. Remember that, like, it was always, you know, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure Leo, you mentioned the term face change memory on several of the first round of screensavers. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:26:59):
Along with, as a thing, fusion energy. And <laugh> I'm sure.

Allyn Malventano (02:27:03):
Yeah. And flying cars, quantum

Leo Laporte (02:27:05):
Course computing. Yeah. And flying cars. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:27:07):
Right. Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, it actually came to be, it probably wasn't cheap to make, because again, you're trying to, I mean, you're literally making a thing that can make a little tiny, you know, microscopic pole of metal of metal Oly, molten <laugh> and re solidified

Leo Laporte (02:27:28):
That's wild, isn't it?

Allyn Malventano (02:27:29):
Yeah. Right. That's just wild even to think about it now. Yeah. That's ridiculous that it's happening inside of a chip to store a bit. Right, right. Right. I mean, it's, you know, it's crazy enough to think that you're quantum tunneling electrons into a Nan cell to store bits, but actually melting like 600 degrees Celsius metal. It's

Leo Laporte (02:27:45):
Kind of magic. What's going on in there anyway, isn't it? I mean, you just said wanted tunneling. I mean, my God it's magic.

Allyn Malventano (02:27:52):
So, you know, the technology was great. It's just that there were, there was an awful lot of stuff working against it. You know, there were lot will

Leo Laporte (02:27:59):
See speeds like that with other technologies again. Or

Allyn Malventano (02:28:03):
I mean, I hope so as an enthusiast, I want things to go faster. Yeah. Right. however so like the opt obtain PCI SSD latencies were roughly in the 10 ish microsecond, you know, per transaction timeframe. Right. And when it came out, SSDs were running at about 190 to a hundred. Microsoft's amazing.

Leo Laporte (02:28:24):

Allyn Malventano (02:28:25):
Right. But now modern day SSDs are actually getting down to like the fifties and the forties microseconds

Leo Laporte (02:28:31):
For much lower cost. So yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:28:33):
For a much lower cost. Yeah. Right. And you're, and you're getting to the point where you know, Optain was well into the diminishing returns. Right. It's like when, if you got to 40 or 50, if you go all the way down to 10, you're really splitting hairs on. Right. Actually seeing much more of a benefit right. In that system. Right. So, you know, it's kinda like the Nan things are, are, are getting to the point where it's it's close enough. Right.

Leo Laporte (02:28:58):
And Intel has it enough. They're saying now pat, guess essence, you're saying we're not giving up on octane. Right. We're doing, they're still, I mean,

Allyn Malventano (02:29:08):
No, his, his phrasing was there, winding down the Optain

Leo Laporte (02:29:11):
Winding it down. Okay. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:29:13):
And micro that doesn't mean that's away from

Leo Laporte (02:29:14):
It last year.

Allyn Malventano (02:29:15):
Yeah. Oh yeah. Micron walked away from, they

Leo Laporte (02:29:17):
Switched. Well, that's part of the problem. Micron was the co-developer of this. If doesn't make them, what is Intel gonna do? Right. Mm-hmm

Allyn Malventano (02:29:24):
<Affirmative> right. But you still have micro actually,

Leo Laporte (02:29:27):
Instead we're gonna do CXL instead. <Laugh> right.

Allyn Malventano (02:29:29):
Intel still has another, like the next server CPU to launch, which is supposed to have support for the next generation of their Dem form factor. Optain I don't know if they're, are they, are they gonna like yank the feature out from under the next Zion to come out? I would guess. Probably not since like, I think all the work would've been done. Yeah. Again, I didn't work in

Leo Laporte (02:29:49):
That. So maybe get it while you can <laugh> sounds like <laugh>.

Allyn Malventano (02:29:52):
I mean, well, no, I mean, it's, it's like, it's gonna be collector's issue.

Leo Laporte (02:29:55):

Allyn Malventano (02:29:56):
Well maybe, maybe there

Leo Laporte (02:29:58):
Are, I, I know there are people who are willing to spend for that kind of speed. Like speed is worth more than the gold.

Allyn Malventano (02:30:07):
It's just the, the question was, were there enough people willing to spend that right, right, right, right. To justify Intel, continuing to try to make it right.

Leo Laporte (02:30:16):
So thank you. I've been wanting to ask this for some time and I, I don't

Allyn Malventano (02:30:20):
Know. And trust me, it, it pains me that that's the way it went. Sure. Right. Because I mean, as just as a pure enthusiast, I mean, heck the whole thing that got me into the industry, so cool. As a tech journalist was that I just wanted the newest, fastest storage thing. Right. you know, I mean, if you've got the things to go fast, if

Leo Laporte (02:30:39):
You've got octane, there's no reason, you know. Good, good sound in our chairman says my desktop has a 16 gig octane memory be happy. Right. There's nothing to

Allyn Malventano (02:30:49):
That too. Yeah. As like a caching tier. Yeah. It was great for that too. Yeah. Yeah. It was great for all sorts of things. Yeah. It's just that, it's just that there wasn't enough volume at that, at that bleeding edge. Right. Even, even the caching argument is a hard one to make, because most people are fine just with one regular SD in their system. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and they just they're like, well, why do I need to have this other extra complication? Isn't

Leo Laporte (02:31:11):
That funny? Right. They've got computers have gotten so fast. We don't, maybe we don't really need to get 'em that much faster. <Laugh> that's wild. What a while until we have hard tasks. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:31:21):
Yeah. I mean, yes, there is still a subset of tasks that even years from now and opt obtain SSD will probably do better. And the, the biggest one that comes to mind is if you have a bunch of heavy writing going on while you're trying to do like the system be responsive in reading at the same time, something like

Leo Laporte (02:31:39):
Actually a neTWiTork operations center might need, for instance, something like transplant transactions. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:31:45):
Maybe even power users, like your Linnux user, you're doing a curl compile and a few other things in the background. And you want your foreground things to also be speedy. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:31:53):
Yeah. Right. Of course.

Allyn Malventano (02:31:54):
But again, it really isn't to the bleeding edge, power user territory there. Right. Right. You really gotta be pushing the system pretty hard to, to see those advantages.

Leo Laporte (02:32:02):
A vinta ladies, gentlemen, I miss having this guy on on our regular shows such important and interesting information. I appreciate it. Maybe it felt like an old TWiTitch episode. It did. Didn't it's kinda nice. It's back baby. TwitIs back. Yeah. Thank you a, I appreciate it. Hey, let's take one final break. Some silly stuff to wrap it up, coming up in just a second. Guess who this show is brought to you by worldwide technology and Intel. How about that? I did not plan this WWT. Is it the frontier of innovation? I'm really impressed with WWT. We went out right before COVID to St. Louis to visit, to see the advanced technology center. That is an amazing thing. The ATC is a research and testing lab, probably the last great research and testing lab in the world that brings together technologies from all the leading OEMs, more than half a billion dollars worth of equipment invests in the lab.

Leo Laporte (02:33:00):
Yes there's Optain there. In fact, the ATC offers hundreds of on-demand and schedulable labs featuring solutions that include technologies like Intel, Zion, scalable processors, Intel Optain persistent memory, opt obtain SSDs and others representing the latest and multi-cloud architecture and security and neTWiTorking primary and secondary storage, data analytics and AI DevOps, and so much more. In fact, I vividly remember the Optain units sitting in the rack. They looked so cool. So, so cool. Wwts engineers. I talked to them, the, the engineers that work in the labs, they used the advanced technology center to spin up proofs of concepts, to learn about technologies, to integrate technologies so that when they deliver to you as a customer, you, they are giving you the best solutions. They really help you get exactly what you need. They also use the labs to cut evaluation time down from months to weeks.

Leo Laporte (02:33:57):
But here's the great thing. You can use the ATC too. You can test out products and solutions. Before you go to market. You can access technical articles in, in expert insights, demonstration videos, white papers, hands on labs and other tools that help you stay up to date with the latest technology, the ATC, it's not just a physical lab space at WWT it's virtualized. You can access it anytime, anywhere in the world. All you have to be is a member of the ATC platform and it's free to join while exploring the ATC platform. Make sure to check out the great events WWT puts on. We actually, we did an event out. There was so much fun communities too, that are all working towards the same goal of, of learning about the latest technology trends and how to integrate them into business. Because the thing that WWT really stands for, and I really appreciate is they understand that technology is there to serve your business strategy.

Leo Laporte (02:34:56):
And so it's strategy first, but they're the ones that can integrate. You'll learn everything you need at the advanced technology center at WWT, whatever your business needs WWT can deliver. Scalable, tried and tested, tailored solutions. WWT brings strategy and execution together to make a new world happen. Learn more about WWT, the ATC to gain access to all those free resources. To join the platform, visit This is a must for anybody who uses enterprise technologies create an account on the ATC platform cost you nothing. Wwt.Com/TWiTi. We had a fun week this week on TWiTI. We've made a little mini movie for you, bonito fire up the projector. I don't know what it, whatever it is you do. Everybody clapped. My hands are still sore from that concert. Every other song they said, put your hands together. Thank you very much.

Leo Laporte (02:36:53):
It, TWiTitch a lean into it. Exactly. That was a lot of fun doing that apple event. I have to say. And we're gonna be, is that, are they playing some Motley crew there. I don't know. It feels like I'm looking forward to October 6th, the, the Google event we'll be covering that live. Jason Howell will be there. Ron Richards. I might pop in <laugh> over my morning. Coffee <laugh> should be very interesting. October six, 7:00 AM. Pacific time. Happy birthday Atari 2,600 September 11th, 1970 7, 45. As old as Jason Howell was about to ask, is

Padre (02:37:36):
That the same exact

Leo Laporte (02:37:37):
Day? I don't know. Jason is the same. It is. I think the Atari video, this to me, the reason I'm excited is this was what got me into computing. Really. I had, I spent a lot of quarters at Chucky cheese pizza, time theater, playing battle zone on the big old Atari arcade machine. I thought if I just put some of those quarters towards buying one of these, I could play it at home. Of course I got it home and realize these games are crap. <Laugh> that's

Padre (02:38:07):
Kind of a little bit on the crap side, but it was still cool. Well,

Leo Laporte (02:38:11):
Yeah, that's when I bought the Atari 400, then replace it later with the 800 and well, the rest is is history. It was, I got it. One year after he got into radio, I got the to 2,600 so happy. I

Padre (02:38:26):
Mean, it was, it, it was a a, a monumental moment for geeks.

Leo Laporte (02:38:31):
You bet

Padre (02:38:32):
To, yes, the quality was terrible, but you could play it at home. You could play it any time you wanted and you could buy cartridges and change the game on like you could like you could you could do that in New York gate. It's better than pong. And then, you know, <laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:38:44):
Yeah, it, yeah, it was, it was about as good as pong, by the way I have Anari 2,600 kind of an honor of this, but it's the size of a dime it's it's. But, but you know what? You see, it actually plays some games. It's got a little PAC man.

Allyn Malventano (02:39:01):
Well, you were playing with that. The last TWiTI I was on. You were playing with

Leo Laporte (02:39:04):
The show. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember who recommended. It was 20 it's 25 bucks on Amazon. It has a joystick, just like the Atari joystick it's even got it. Doesn't have a cartridges, but it has a big reset button. Has the switches game, select game reset. So that's kind of cool. Listen,

Allyn Malventano (02:39:20):
One of, one of my memories from when I was little, one of my memories from when I was little was like, like our, our neighbor or somebody was over and like, she rolled over the, the score on space invaders.

Leo Laporte (02:39:32):
Oh, wow. And listen, that

Allyn Malventano (02:39:33):
Was, that was like, you're getting, you're getting the other people in the apartment to come and see. <Laugh> like, she just rolled

Leo Laporte (02:39:39):
Over this door.

Allyn Malventano (02:39:40):
Yeah. Yeah. It was like, yeah. It was like such a huge deal. Space.

Leo Laporte (02:39:44):
Bears is a great game, actually. That was a great game. So this little mini one has breakout Tempest centipede, combat pong, war Lords, missile, command, mili asteroids, and Pacman. I mean 25 bucks.

Allyn Malventano (02:39:58):
Is it, is it just the SW as it

Padre (02:40:00):
Was before? Yeah, it was

Leo Laporte (02:40:01):
Actually pretty good. Yeah. I mean, look in fact, man, there's not a lot processing power in this, but I mean, this has the same, I'm sure, probably more processing power than the original 2,645 years ago. So it's

Allyn Malventano (02:40:14):
Somebody, somebody in the past few years went back and fixed, et. Yes. The et game was notorious for being horrible. And somebody like re you fix it. Somebody patched, they made patches to it. Bad fixed the really bad parts. I mean, it's still probably not like great game, but like they fixed the annoying, bad parts of the code. Like they actually sort of

Padre (02:40:36):
Bugged the game was programmed as if they, they sent someone to watch the movie and describe to them what the movie was about. There's no connection beTWiTeen the game and the movie.

Leo Laporte (02:40:45):
They never released it. In fact, they buried all the cartridges in the landfill. I have an et cartridge here, actually, somebody, Ooh, a listener brought me one. Yeah. I had TWiTo and I gave one to one of our contributors. A guy did a show for us, was talking about, and I said, well, would you like my, would you like a copy? Play it on your 2,600 <laugh> wow. Ocean shipping rates have plunged 60% this year. So if you've been thinking about bringing over a container, maybe on your way home, put some of those Vatican library books in there cost you now cost you a lot. That price didn't go up is that,

Allyn Malventano (02:41:27):
Is that dropped partially artificial because they were so high the year prior. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:41:32):
Probably very,

Allyn Malventano (02:41:32):
Yeah. Right. Very

Leo Laporte (02:41:35):
So I didn't know this, but the wall street journal says it costs to ship a 40 foot container from China to the west coast, about $5,400 a box down from $9,000 in January.

Allyn Malventano (02:41:49):
Yeah. Cuz everything spiked. When, you know, you had you had a big container ship sideways in a canal and peaked it, blocking up, peaked it

Leo Laporte (02:41:57):
More $20,000 at one point. So here's the graph February 20, 20. We're still not down to that point. We're still, yeah, it was if February, 2020, it was 1400 bucks. Imagine that no wonder we had so many, you know, Chake Chinese Chake. That was, was nothing when all the way up to 20,000, that was the peak in late last year, October, September, last year. About a year ago.

Allyn Malventano (02:42:23):
Well that explained some of the prices being high on stuff.

Leo Laporte (02:42:26):
Yeah. There's a, there's a source of inflation right there. Yeah. So it's come down, but it's still not at the level pre pandemic levels. Pre pandemic was 1400 bucks. Wow. Wow. Hmm. Walmart chartered its own ships because it got so expensive. It was cheaper to get a ship than it was to get a container. And I said, forget that we're gonna do it ourselves. So I don't know if this will help inflation or help keep costs down. But thought that was an interesting story. Instagram find 400 million because they gave up kids data. This is the Ireland privacy regulator data, privacy regulator four to 2 million against Instagram due to their handling of children's data. Do you think it'll it'll get any better? No,

Padre (02:43:18):
No. They're gonna appeal that. Of course. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:43:20):
Doesn't Instagram have something where you're supposed to be sold to, to be, you

Leo Laporte (02:43:25):
Know, so the investigation focused on users beTWiTeen the age of 13 and 17 and the us COPPA says under 13. So this was kids that were legal in the us, the investigation focused on child users beTWiTeen the age of 13 and 17 who were allowed to operate business accounts. <Laugh>

Allyn Malventano (02:43:44):
Well, so fancy, what's

Leo Laporte (02:43:47):
Wrong with that? Which facilitated the publication, the user's phone number and or email address, you know? So these

Padre (02:43:54):
Are kids who wanted to be influencers.

Leo Laporte (02:43:55):
I think this is great. If a 13 year old says, I want to start my business on Facebook for crying out loud. Let 'em, that's not a privacy issue. Money for their containers. Yeah. How are they, how are they gonna pay for the containers? There is a new search engine. I don't know how many of you, when you're doing a search instead of searching Google search Reddit, or you add site to your search.

Allyn Malventano (02:44:20):
Oh I do. Yeah. It depends on what it is. I don't

Padre (02:44:23):
Use Google Reddi is

Leo Laporte (02:44:25):
Bing. Especially if you're searching for products, use Bing it's

Allyn Malventano (02:44:28):
Wrongly does it, does it actually. And it actually works.

Leo Laporte (02:44:31):
There is

Padre (02:44:32):
Honest to goodness I've been using Bing for years.

Allyn Malventano (02:44:34):
That's that's my primary's pretty bad for some of the searches I try to do usually for certain kind of technology, things like

Leo Laporte (02:44:41):
Things Google, you

Allyn Malventano (02:44:42):
Just won. Get the

Leo Laporte (02:44:42):
Result. I, the top of the page on Google is often now wasted with knowledge, graphs and videos from YouTube. Sure. Love YouTube. Not nothing wrong with, I just use YouTube. Yeah. I was about to say just search Reddit. So this is a new search engine Luria, L O O R I that actually scrapes, Reddit to find the favorite products in many of the Reddit groups. So I just thought I'd pass that along to you most discussed products on cycling or e-bikes or earbuds or headphones sometimes it's a little you know, depends on the, on the subreddit. Some subreddits are in infested with spammers and companies, frankly, trying to improve or just toxicity. Yeah. Or toxicity. So, but Hey, I think an interesting idea for search engine L O R I a

Allyn Malventano (02:45:34):
Actually there was a thing just the other day that was one of those really hard to search for kind of things. And it wasn't until I added Reddit in. Yeah. And even then I had to go a little deep on it. Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:45:47):
Yeah. It was, it had to work. Yeah.

Allyn Malventano (02:45:48):
Well I had this one Dell laptop that like, it was an it build laptop because it was a work laptop. So it didn't come with some of the regular sofTWiTare that would come preloaded on the Dell thing. Like mainly control panels for like sound and there was this real tech based something, something that was adding this horrible echo into like USB connected audio devices. Oh yeah. So like my headset was just doing this weird reverb whenever I was like using the headset. And I'm like, what the heck is going on here? And I could not crack that problem. And I mean, I'm reasonably savvy on computer stuff and still could not figure out what the heck was going on there. And it wasn't was at the bottom of some obscure Reddit thread where somebody was like, oh yeah, you gotta install this control panel from the Microsoft store for this, you know, sound max, something, something control panel isn't then.

Leo Laporte (02:46:34):

Allyn Malventano (02:46:34):
That's I love it. Turn off the

Leo Laporte (02:46:35):
Rebar. I use Reddit. Yeah.

Padre (02:46:37):
It's not just for memes anymore.

Leo Laporte (02:46:39):
It's not just for memes. Yeah. Do you remember when SIRS? So you may think, Hey, if a plane breaks in the sky, why doesn't it have a parachute? You have the passengers to have a parachute. Why does the plane have parachute? You ever think that maybe after won too many sleeves in a couple of

Allyn Malventano (02:46:58):
Bond hits that that's a thing for CSUs. Csus have parachutes. Yeah.

Padre (02:47:01):
Small planes can have parachute.

Leo Laporte (02:47:02):
The CCE airframe parachute system or caps has been used for the first time. This is the serious vision jet, a single engine, private jet. They had problems. They deployed the parachute, the pilot, a boy and a woman walked away safe and sound because the parachute brought them in for safe landing. Yeah. The first deployment of the airframe shoot in operation. Wow.

Allyn Malventano (02:47:31):
I'm surprised it's it's been this long.

Padre (02:47:33):

Allyn Malventano (02:47:34):
You know, cuz it's been around for a while. I'm surprised this is the first like, you know, deploy actual like live deployment that for,

Padre (02:47:41):
Well they've done, I've seen deployments on Cessnas on like the, the old turbo prop. Sesnas

Leo Laporte (02:47:46):
Yeah. This is a jet. This

Padre (02:47:47):
Might be the first small jet.

Leo Laporte (02:47:48):
Yeah. Maybe that's it.

Allyn Malventano (02:47:49):
Yeah. Maybe that's it.

Leo Laporte (02:47:50):
Yeah. So I guess you got a big, a big lever there. You can pull it and you just float to the ground. <Laugh> that's hysterical. This is a simulator. This is not, not real. Right. <laugh> just so you know, I

Padre (02:48:03):
Mean the one thing though is once you pull that shoot, you don't have any control over where you

Leo Laporte (02:48:08):
Now you float now. You're just, you're gonna land with new land. You're not you're Newton's hands. No miracle on the Hudson for you buddy. You're gonna, yeah. <Laugh> I like that. You're in Newton's hands now. That's that's hysterical. Let's see some new Linux malware out there. Sounds like a, nation's a big one. This is a big one. I don't usually mention,

Allyn Malventano (02:48:29):
I was reading about that. It's real. It's real nasty

Leo Laporte (02:48:33):

Padre (02:48:34):

Leo Laporte (02:48:35):
Chite. Yep. Very stealthy according to the at T alien labs, the researchers who've discovered it, the malware delivered through a multi-stage infection chain using polymorphic and coding. It uses legitimate cloud services to host command and control servers. So it's very difficult to detect. And it can infect not only Linux machines, but O T devices based on Linux. And it's a

Allyn Malventano (02:49:06):
Pretty, the, the cloud provider thing aspect was, was the big thing that popped out at me as a possible defense.

Leo Laporte (02:49:12):

Allyn Malventano (02:49:13):
Because right. But you, but you have to figure out where, where is it reaching out to which cloud service provider which addresses, right? And sometimes even that's obfuscated and, and not readily obvious. And even if you have, I

Padre (02:49:25):

Allyn Malventano (02:49:26):
The disassemble,

Padre (02:49:27):
The dropper, the dropper is only 370 bites, 370 bites, not megabytes or kilobytes three 70 bites.

Allyn Malventano (02:49:34):
Amazing. It's smaller than one

Padre (02:49:35):
Second. The polymorphic coder is crazy. Cuz basically every time it runs it rewrites its code, the underlying algorithm stays the same. But if you're looking for the code to detect the threat, it'll change every single time, it

Leo Laporte (02:49:47):
Runs makes it hard to do a signature based virus detection. Is that the idea?

Allyn Malventano (02:49:51):
Well, and, and it stays in memory is another important aspect of it. It doesn't, if it never, if no piece of it ever touches the disc, then a lot of the antivirus type you know, scanning tools on, on regular endpoint systems just aren't gonna, they're not gonna see it.

Padre (02:50:07):
And it's very, very flexible. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's, it's they included a Melo module called metal mm-hmm <affirmative>, which allows me to take over any connected devices. So USB cameras, USB microphones. Oh I can remote execute code. Oh Lord.

Leo Laporte (02:50:21):
Pretty. That's not good. It also can put a crypto minor on there just in case you wanna make some money.

Padre (02:50:26):
Exactly. Why not? Why

Leo Laporte (02:50:27):
Not? So the,

Allyn Malventano (02:50:28):
The good news here is that I think it's, it's a T vector. Was it like one or TWiTo different CVEs or something? Basically they're

Padre (02:50:35):
It's TWiTo of them. Yeah. Twito of them

Allyn Malventano (02:50:37):
It's it's TWiTo of them, but it's issues that like there are patches out. So it's a matter of like correct OB obviously. And I think we talked about this last time I was on Leo. Make sure all of your things are updated

Leo Laporte (02:50:48):
Patch, your things catch all the things that's your, the problem is course T devices, which often are not patchable and they will have

Padre (02:50:54):
The problem are raspberry pies, right? Yeah. That haven't been updated for 15 years or whatever. It I've got a couple here that I, I mean, I have to force myself to remember, you gotta update your Linux. Cause go, go ahead and run the update. Why not? Right. It takes

Leo Laporte (02:51:08):
A couple minutes, right? Yeah. One of the CVEs has been in the links current for 12 years. P kit was discovered last year and has been patched in most, in a modern Linux you're patched butt. Maybe not so much. Yeah. the other came to light in April of this, of last year. Both have been patched, but this is, yeah, that sounds like a nation state. But, but of course that crypto, the Manero minor is a little weird nation state will do that. That's yeah. Unless it's misdirection thing. Yeah. It's what it mean. It's pretty cleverly written. Okay. I think we have literally done all the stories <laugh> I got nothing left so I can let Jason go have some birthday cake, I think. And let you all go have some dinner, Renee. I miss you. I think you're doing God's work over there at YouTube as creator liaison. They are so lucky to have Renee Richie there to kind of go like the Tim gun. You go in there and you do a Renee talk and say, let me tell you something as a YouTuber. I

Rene Ritchie (02:52:10):
There's, it's an amazing team. I am continually oppressed by just how much they care about creators and viewers and almost all the discussions are about like how we can best serve as many of them as possible.

Leo Laporte (02:52:20):
Yeah. That's great. Youtube.Com/Renee Richie once a week and at Renee Richie on TWiTitter. And I just hope we see you again soon. Absolutely. Miss miss you terribly, but it's great to hear from you. Likewise. Yeah. I thought man, if we can get Renee on for this show, that would be pretty cool. So now that I know I can get you. That's great. Same for you. A Vinton no longer at Intel. Now it's solo dime, still studying SSDs. And as you probably could tell kind of an expert and our favorite sub Mariner. Thank you for being here. Allen. I, you keep breaking up the submarines. I love the submarines. <Laugh> you're the only guy I knows ever been on a submarine for real. So that's cool. My goodness. That's that's just cool and skis and, and then

Allyn Malventano (02:53:04):
There's and then there's a Padre literally doing

Leo Laporte (02:53:06):
God's work. Yeah. He's actually doing God's work. Well,

Rene Ritchie (02:53:10):
I I'm actually just like Renee, we, we do cater to creator the

Leo Laporte (02:53:13):
De creator V creator. You only have, you have a V creator liaison, single a single customer, but you know, he's, he's a big yeah. Yeah. Big wig. He's an influencer, I would say digital Padre SJ. So great to see you. I miss you this, I miss you all. This is fun. Let's get all, get the OGs in here for a TWiTI. I really appreciate it. We do TWiTI every Sunday around 2:00 PM, Pacific 5:00 PM, Eastern 2100 UTC. Please join us. You can watch us do it live so you, you see all the mistakes, all the fumbles, all that stuff at If you're watching live chat live, the IRC is open all day and all night but usually gets a little more exciting during shows, That's open. All of course, we also have a club. The club TWiTI is really a great place to get together in our discord.

Leo Laporte (02:54:11):
I I've become a huge fan of discord club TWiTI is the place to be, if you ask me, we talk about not only the shows, but all sorts of other things going on, including coding and ham radio and books and comics. We've got Stacey's book club coming up. We've got other events planned in there. And we also use the club to subsidize new shows. So you saw hands on windows with Paul thro. We do hands on Mac with Micah Sergeant. We do the untitled Linox show with Donna, Jonathan Bennett and and Rob Campbell. We also do the Stacey's book club. We do the GI FIS. All of those are subsidized by club members because they're either too new or too small to have advertising. So the club members subsidize that with their money. You also get ad free versions of all the shows cuz you're contributing.

Leo Laporte (02:55:03):
So we don't need to show you ads. You don't even get this ad. And you'll also get access to the trip plus feed, which has the hands on Mac, hands on windows and lots of other stuff that doesn't make it to the public podcast and all of that. That's a lot for seven bucks a month. That is a good deal. There's yearly plans. There's enterprise plans find out more and you could buy some shows individually ad free for $2 and 99 cents a month. If you just wanna subscribe to those, all of that at TWiTit do TV slash club TWiTI. This show appears along with all the other ad supported shows on our website. As soon as it's done, there's also YouTube channel for it. And all of our other shows, each of them has their own channel. Plus the main TWiTI channel, And there's also of course, and probably the best way to get it a podcast feed subscribe in your favorite podcast player. You'll get it the minute it's available just in time for your Monday morning commute. Now I think easily the longest running tech podcast in the world in our 18th year. Thanks for joining me. We'll see you next time. Another TWiT is in the can.

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