This Week in Tech 509 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It's time for TWiT: This Week in Tech! This is going to be a wild one. John C. Dvorak and Jolie O’Dell in the same room. I don't know if we're going to get much tech news, but you're in for a bumpy ride. TWiT is next.

NETCASTS YOU LOVE FROM PEOPLE YOU TRUST. THIS IS TWIT! Bandwidth for This Week in tech is provided by Cachefly at

Leo: This is TWiT, This Week in Tech, Episode 509, recorded Sunday, May 10, 2015.

Lucas, Cover Your Ears

This Week in Tech is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Are you hiring? With, you can post to 100+ job sites, including social networks, all with a single click. Screen, rate, and hire the right candidates fast. Try ZipRecruiter with a free, four-day trial now, at And by Sign up for the platinum plan and get two free books. Go to, and follow Audible on Twitter, user ID audible_com. And by Casper: an online retailer of premium mattresses for a fraction of the price, because everyone deserves a great night's sleep. Get $50 off any mattress purchase by visiting Enter the promo code TWiT. And by Dropbox for Business. Dropbox for Business lets your team sync and share files, just like Dropbox, but with IT admin tools that allow you to control and protect your company information. Visit for a free 14-day trial. That's It's time for TWiT: This Week in Tech, the show where we cover the week's tech news. That's all I'm going to say for the next two hours, because guess who's here? First of all, John C. Dvorak.

John C. Dvorak: Hey!

Leo: He's wearing camo today.

John: Just in case. Can you see me?

Leo: Nice to have you back. I'm really thrilled to have Jolie O'Dell back, after you dropped out of technology for the fifth time. You retire more often than Frank Sinatra.

Jolie O'Dell: I've retired exactly once. Twice. I retired from Venture Beat.

Leo: Retired from Venture Beat. You're now at

Jolie: Where I was working in 2009.

Leo: Wait a minute! That's right.

John: Her next job is Mashable.

Jolie: Ew.

John: This is good. I've been trying to get the story out of her.

Leo: The last I heard—

Jolie: Pete knows.

Leo: Pete knows?

John: Sure, but the public wants to know.

Jolie: there's no love lost. He was ready for me to go, and I was ready to be gone.

John: You hated him, or he hated you?

Jolie: I think the feeling was mutual, whatever feeling it was. Hate is a strong word.

John: You sure he doesn't have some sort of attraction of sexual tension?

Jolie: No.

Leo: He's a good-looking man. He's got those architectural chin

Jolie: He looks like a lot of the drag queens I hang out with now. He's got that fishy face.

Leo: I can't imagine that he didn't love her.

Jolie: He's cute for a girl.

Leo: You, last I saw—for some reason people seem to think that I need to know what you're up to. I get a lot of tweets and comments. Did you see Jolie O'Dell has retired from technology?

Jolie: People care that you care. That's sweet.

John: I thought you had her banned from the show.

Leo: I banned you, I banned her. I keep telling you get out. You're banned.

John: You have a short-term memory issue.

Jolie: I hadn't been on the show for months and months and months.

John: Months.

Jolie: Did I piss you off, Leo?

Leo: Mad men months.

John: Yeah, Mad Men months. You and me are the only guys in the world who got what you're saying.

Leo: First of all, no one is ever banned. It doesn't mean you're going to be on, it just means—

John: It doesn't mean you're going to be on. That's a good one.

Leo: Banned implies... there are a few people who are banned. Your buddy is banned. There are a few people who are banned. But even Jason Calacanis was on last week. Did you know that?

John: I saw that show, and I'm weirded out by it and the whole thing that I witnessed. All the people you had on the show, they all had the Apple watch on. You demanded to see the watch, and everybody went like this, and all that was missing was "Heil Apple."

Leo: Fascist salute. Hail Apple.

John: And they all had their watch and their arms were like this. Hail! Hail! I'm thinking, this is terrible. This is fascism.

Leo: Whatever. You're not wearing an Apple watch, I take it.

Jolie: You know what? They're launching at WWDC this year.

Leo: What are they launching?

Jolie: Borg.

Leo: Can I wear that little thing on my face?

Jolie: Yes, you can. It's the Eye Borg.

Leo: I think in some ways, if you're an Apple fanatic; you are part of a community that is Borg like. This goes back to the early days, 1984, remember the commercial, the marching IBM—

Jolie: Are you aware of how marketing works?

Leo: I think that people who were Apple fans in the early days...

John: Why do you have two on?

Jolie: He's playing favorites. He's hedging his bets.

John: Because I heil both Apple and the Google.

Jolie: Let me see that. They're both ugly as sin.

Leo: I bought this thinking it would be gorgeous. This is the LG Urbane. Everybody from my wife on said that is the most ugly thing I have ever seen.

John: Jolie can't keep a straight face looking at it.

Jolie: The rose gold hardware is a nice touch.

Leo: It looks like I bought it on Canal street or somewhere. Like it's a ten-dollar clone, but it is the latest Android-Wear. It has some features that I like a lot, that are different—

John: Can I see it?

Leo: Sure you can see it. It would probably look good on you.

John: I doubt it.

Leo: What do you not like? Why do you think this is an ugly watch?

John: It's too big. It's clunky.

Leo: It's 52 MM, which as we know—

John: It's a monster. You have a pocket watch on your wrist.

Leo: this is my issue with SmartWatches, they are so small, it's hard to do a good UI on them. Sometimes having a bigger watch—

Jolie: What just happened on your watch? There were a bunch of notifications and it looked like a bunch of gobbly gook.

Leo: That's the weather.

Jolie: Yeah.

John: Heil Google.

Leo: You're right. It's awfully small. Don't say "Heil Google." Say, "OK Google."

John: OK Google. By the way, if you do that on these shows, "OK Google," it turns on most people's things.

Jolie: Say "OK Google" to your watch. It's really funny. Do you want a hug?

Leo: No. This is exactly how it was the last time you were here.

Jolie: the train is off the track!

Leo: It's off the tracks before it even gets on the track.

John: You said there's no news, so we're just doing our bit.

Leo: It's funny, because I often think that when there's no news we're not going to have much of a show, and invariably, the longest shows are the shows where there's no news because I feel like we should fool around a little bit, and then it gets out of hand. Pretty soon—

John: Then you're banned.

Leo: And then you're banned.

Jolie: OK.

John: This will be the last time anyone will see Jolie for months. Years.

Jolie: Gentlemen, I have something to say. I'm going to say it now.

Leo: Please do.

Jolie: I've been gone from the technology sphere. I haven't even read blog articles or anything related to technology—

John: But you're married to a guy who's in Tech...

Jolie: Do you think I talk to him? We're married. I'm reading the document about the things we're going to discuss today, and it's the same bull crap as was on the show before.

Leo: It doesn't ever change.

Jolie: Nothing changes. Apple is trying to do stupid crap. Google is tracking you to your death. Oculus Rift is cool.

John: Google is tracking you to your death?

Jolie: Yes. Cradle to Grave. They've got you.

John: Hail Apple.

Leo: The gesture John is using is the gesture of showing off your watch, which is the same gesture Cattlemen use to test if the cows are pregnant.

John: They take their watches off.

Leo: You probably don't want to wear your watch during that. You might not get it back.

John: Or it will stink for months.

Leo: When you say that—

Jolie: This is barnyard humor.

John: Barnyard humor. I'm sorry. Keep talking, Leo.

Leo: No! Wait a minute. Let's make a deal. If I lean back like that, that means you guys go ahead.

John: We're not taking that sort of cue. We're not slaves.

Leo: So basically the rule is going to be that you'll only do it if you can interrupt me.

John: Half the chatroom thinks I interrupt you all the time. The other half thinks I'm hilarious.

Leo: Everybody thinks you're hilarious. You're beloved. You are. Jolie, what happened?

Jolie: When?

John: Look at this. You can't get it off because it keeps sticking.

Leo: It's a magnet. You separate the two. You just pull it off. It's not that tough. You're already tired of the Apple Watch?

John: Yeah, I'm done. Oh, the pass code comes up again. Does this happen constantly?

Jolie: Let me see this. How, with your man fingers, how are you supposed to even—?

Leo: I think all watches have the basic problem—

John: Yeah, your man-fingers.

Leo: It's difficult, man or woman fingers.

John: Women fingers would be just as bad.

Jolie: We have dainty little fingers.

Leo: Somehow it knows that it's on your wrist. Once you put it on your wrist, you unlock it by the phone using your finger, now it's unlocked. It's going to ask for the—

Jolie: You have to use your phone to unlock your watch? Am I getting that right? Is anyone else hearing this?

Leo: If I double tap this, I'm now on Apple pay. I have my credit cards on there.

Jolie: Don't you have that on your phone too?

Leo: I do. The phone also locks with my fingerprints. You don't want anybody to be able to put this on, because then they could use Apple Pay. Apple Pay is only unlocked as long as contact with your wrist is maintained and you've unlocked it with your finger.

John: If I changed your iPhone to Russian will it change it on the little thing?

Leo: Do you want to try?

John: I don't know how to do it anymore...

Leo: John, it wouldn't be a visit from Dvorak unless you brought baked goods and John brought...

Jolie: I brought nothing.

John: She brought nothing but herself.

Leo: If you're not watching video, you're missing a stunning Jolie O'Dell.

Jolie: You're so kind.

John: She's always good looking.

Jolie: I am.

Leo: You went bombshell for today. Didn't you?

Jolie: I did.

John: She's actually been bombshell for a while.

Leo: I'm going to ask again. What happened?

Jolie: When?

Leo: I don't know.

Jolie: Last night?

John: Is this a tech news show? Don't you have some news for us to discuss? Otherwise, Jolie is going to take over the place.

Jolie: It's all the same bull crap.

John: I got that.

Leo: It took me ten minutes to have a physical breakdown.

John: We won't get invited back.

Leo: What's my heart rate now?

John: Who cares?

Jolie: What happened is I left technology because it was giving me fits.

Leo: I don't blame you. It gives me fits. I can't make a living doing anything else, so...

Jolie: I can't make a living having fits. I sat home and played this iPad game with fish in it for two months, and then my husband told me... no I did. Didn't I darling?

Leo: I believe it's true.

Jolie: My husband told me I needed to do something.

John: Get out of the house!

Jolie: Exactly. I did some charity things, and he was like, "That's not real stuff."

John: He said he did not say that. It's embellishment.

Leo: Your husband is well off. He's about 73, 80 years old.

Jolie: He's geriatric, but we're in love.

Leo: Of course you deeply love him, and the minute he kicks off, you'll have a fortune.

Jolie: I'll be devastated and so rich.

Leo: Now I understand the baked goods. You're trying to kill us.

Jolie: How does that coffee taste, darling? OK. No. I left technology, and I got a call from the CEO of Wearable World, which now owns Readwrite. He wanted to have coffee.

Leo: You worked before for Readwrite.

Jolie: Yeah, I worked for Readwrite in 2009.

John: When did that happen and why?

Jolie: I don't know and I don't know. I'm not a person with the answers.

Leo: What is Wearable World?

Jolie: It is an Incubator for hardware startups. Wearbles, internet of things...

John: How about the trend towards designer dresses that are using a lot of LEDs.

Jolie: So stupid.

John: What?

Leo: Why don't you host the show?

John: Chris Parillo, ladies and gentlemen. He happens to be in the audience. Can you put the camera on him? Haven't seen you for a while.

Jolie: Chris is lovely.

Leo: We got a new host for this show. You guys just keep talking. I don't mind. Come on over.

John: Looks like we got a live one.

Leo: Sit right there. There's the microphone. Chris Parillo, ladies and gentlemen. Enjoy the show.

John: Somebody in the chatroom says, "Is it really Chris?" Come on, chatroom. Of course it is.

Leo: What's your name?

Boy: Lucas.

Leo: Lucas, how old are you?

Boy: Eight.

Leo: You are adorable, and I like that you're wearing a TWiT pin. Are you a fan of TWiT?

Boy: My Dad is.

Leo: He didn't know that he was coming to this particular show, did he?

Leo: When you see blasting caps, what are you going to do?

Jolie: Lucas, ignore that propaganda. You play with those blasting caps. Blowing stuff up is fun.

Leo: Thank you, Lucas.

John: Might as well watch the blasting caps.

Jolie: Do we have any blasting caps in the studio?

Leo: You learned your lesson well. He said, "Don't touch them." He knew.

John: I don't know that 9/10 kids would know that.

Leo: We showed the Willie Mays promo before the show. We wanted to make sure all the children watching—

John: That crazy old promo that was so bad?

Leo: Don't touch them! Wearable World bought ReadWrite.

Jolie: Wearable World bought ReadWrite.

Leo: It's now wearable world wead wite?

Jolie: It's ReadWrite. They lost the web.

Leo: Thank goodness. It's hard to say. ReadWrite Web.

Jolie: When I got there, I had to practice saying ReadWrite web over and over.

Leo: So they said let's go for coffee, and they offered you a job.

Jolie: No. I had coffee with the CEO twice, and he was like, "See you Monday." I was like, "The actual you'll see me Monday." I showed up on Monday and he put me in charge of a bunch of stuff.

Leo: Over at VentureBeat, you were in charge of all the stuff.

Jolie: I was in charge of some of the stuff.

John: She was an editor.

Leo: You say that dismissively.

Jolie: At Wearable World, I am in charge of special operations, special projects. What I'm doing next is so exciting that I can't tell you about it until May 19, I will reveal on. What I will tell you is this:

John: Why don't we have Kevin Rose on?

Leo: Is it going to have to do with Wearables?

Jolie: I got to preach for a second, ya'll. The business model for online publishing is so jacked, it makes me furious.

Leo: Look at Giga Home. This is a great resource. Wonderful stuff.

Jolie: This is one of the biggest reasons I got out of the Technology publishing world is because advertisers, sponsors, were encroaching on the editorial process to the extent that I felt all the integrity was being lost from online journalism. It's bull crap. I thought, "I can't do this anymore. This is exhausting. I can't comment and keep writing over sales, ads, and pop ups, and interstitials. (Which disgust me beyond all measure.) So, I was talking about this with great disgust to Wearable World's CEO Redge Snodgrass. Great guy.

Leo: That's not a real name.

Jolie: It's his name. It's a real person's name. Redge Snodgrass.

John: It's like a WC Field's character.

Jolie: He's such a dynamic weirdo. I love that guy.

Leo: How would you like a little cup of coffee m'dear? Redge Snodgrass here. Does he talk like that?

Jolie: No. He talks nothing like that. He's very earnest.

John: Is he British?

Jolie: No.

John: Who would name their kid Redge?

Jolie: Are we going to harp on this name, or are we going to talk about the real deal? Knowing that I'm back at ReadWrite and I have very strong opinions about sales needing to get out of journalism, that's all I'm going to say for now.

John: There's something coming up.

Leo: As I looked in here, Wearable World Congress is coming up on the 19. Wearable World is putting this together. Isn't ReadWrite going to become the Wearable World House

Jolie: That's not going to happen.

Leo: You've got the wrong one. Just go to It's not that complicated. So Wearable World Congress is a... I was invited to this.

Jolie: You should show up.

Leo: Is it in San Francisco?

Jolie: Yeah. It's at the Palace of Fine Arts.

Leo: Wearables includes watches, but Google Glass.

Jolie: You know what we've got in the Wearable World family? Scully. That crazy motorcycle helmet. Ya'll heard about Scully? Show of hands.

John: We're doing some tech news here, because Leo didn't want to put any effort into the show.

Leo: It's my fault.

Jolie: Scully is getting ready to ship their stuff at some point in the future. They're part of the fam.

Leo: How about clothing? I see you have an article...

John: What's the Scully thing? You wear a helmet and it has a long stick that sticks out of it?

Jolie: It's not like a selfie stick on a motorcycle helmet. (Although, that would be badass.) I also hated the idea the firs time they told me about it. It's a heads-up display that goes inside your motorcycle helmet. I think it's terribly distracting, but my personal opinions don't count for much in this world.

Leo: It sounds like what's happening... first of all, Wearable World is not in the business of Wearables.

Jolie: It is.

Leo: It makes Wearables?

Jolie: It incubates companies that make Wearables. From ideation to market. Wearable World owns ReadWrite, but ReadWrite is its own entity. The editorial team lives in this hole in the palace of fine arts.

Leo: You work in the palace of Fine Arts? How nice.

John: I didn't know there was any place there to work.

Jolie: There is now.

John: Is it around where the Exploratorium was?

Jolie: It's in that hangar. They call it the innovation hangar now. All the companies come and do their technology/science crap.

Leo: The palace of fine arts you would think is a museum in San Francisco. It's not. The museum is called the Legion of Honor.

Jolie: It sounds nothing like a museum.

Leo: They should trade names. The Palace of Fine arts was built for the San Francisco exposition of 1916? To celebrate the rebirth of San Francisco after the fire and earthquake of 1906. All of it was built on the waterfront. It was only built to be temporary, but this structure still stands today.

John: They have a copy of that in Disney World.

Jolie: Do you know what? That building is where my husband and I had our first kiss.

Leo: Did you get married right away there?

Jolie: No.

Leo: Because they have a lot of weddings there.

Jolie: Can we talk about the news? All of this is so peripheral.

Leo: I'm trying to get there. I think there's some news here.

Jolie: ReadWrite has gone through some dark times. I think what's happening now is a re-birth.

Leo: Why would Wearable World acquire them?

Jolie: I have my own theories.

Leo: Do they want to get in the business of journalism?

John: I have a theory. It's so they can exploit the journalism side of the business.

Jolie: You think I would ever let that happen, John? I would bite Redge's leg off if he tried.

John: Is he a big guy.

Leo: I am not a big guy. I'm thick.

Jolie: He's a masculine chap.

John: That doesn't mean he's not big.

Jolie: He's normal size.

Leo: I'm sorry if you tuned into this show expecting a normal show.

John: Let me take ahold of the chatroom. Is this OK, what we're talking about? This random stuff? Because they're moving all the real news over to the show.

Leo: He looks like he should be on James Bond.

John: He looks like a Russian spy. He's a Russian spy.

Jolie: That's from the video we made.

John: Everyone thinks we're doing fine. Except one guy.

Leo: We booted him.

John: Somebody else said no. Somebody else said, "No. Boring." Who is this guy? Get rid of him!

Jolie: There's nothing boring about this show.

Leo: Would you mind if we did an interstitial right now? I know how you feel about them.

Jolie: Let's do it. You got to pay the bills.

Leo: I got to pay the bills, and Redge Snodgrass isn't writing me checks.

Jolie: He's not writing me checks either. I do it for free.

Leo: What?

Jolie: I got a $1 salary.

Leo: Aaron, is this what you had in mind when you said a job? One dollar?

John: The answer is no.

Leo: You're doing charity work.

Jolie: And burlesque to pay the bills.

Leo: You do burlesque?

Jolie: No. I wish. I could never get away with that.

Leo: Why not?

John: She is very prim and proper.

Jolie: You know I'm not. I wish I could, but people would assume I'm not trustworthy and unintelligent and skanky. That would be not good. You, Leo. On the other hand.... If you're going to be a ho...

Leo: I'd rather do this ad, if you don't mind. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

John: I thought you were going to have one other person.

Leo: Could you imagine another person here? What would they do?

John: There we go. And the red nose. I'm supposed to be messaged by somebody.

Leo: Our show to you today brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Jolie, if you were looking for a job that pays more than a dollar a year, you might want to visit Zip Recruiter. This is the place for people working for work and people looking for employees. The Internet has transformed searching for work, but which is the right one for the person you're looking for? Posting your job in one place this days isn't going to find you the candidates you need. When you're short-staffed, you don't have time to deal with a dozen different job sites. You need One click of the mouse posts your job to 100+ sites. Even at Twitter, Facebook, and Craig's list. When you're short-staffed, this is the place to go. You're going to have the highest possible chance of finding the perfect candidate. You might say, "Wait a minute. I'm worried about getting a lot of results." Don't worry. The e-mails don't come to your inbox or your phone. All the applicants come to the Zip Recruiter interface where it's easy to screen them to find the right candidate fast. Zip Recruiter has been used by over 4,000 companies. We've used it and it's been great and you can try it for free. If you’re a business owner, your company is only as good as the people you hire. Get the right person fast. We got a four-day trial waiting for you for free. 100+ job boards with the single click of a mouse. It's been a boon for us. John C. Dvorak is here from Jolie O'Dell from ReadWrite. How long did it take you?


Leo: Your job is unspecified, but you're only getting paid a buck.

Jolie: Special projects. I am a witch and an assassin.

Leo: You're doing this because it's an interesting opportunity.

Jolie: I'm doing this because I owe ReadWrite as an organization for everything good that's happened in my career.

Leo: That's good. Let's talk... there's a lot coming up later this month. Google IO, and shortly after that in June, WWDC. Apple is expected to announce its Beats software for over 3 billion dollars.

John: It seemed too stupid to be true.

Leo: It hardly seemed possible, then it became true and it was Doctor Drey and Jimmie Iovene who got offices on the Cupertino campus. I don't think Drey has spent a lot of time there. It turns out it wasn't so much the headphone business, although Apple is selling Beats headphones. In fact, they're updating them. People have some new headphones and they're saying they're quite good. The streaming music business. That seemed to be what Apple wanted.

John: It's odd.

Leo: Why?

John: They owned the market for sales with—

Leo: It wasn't going to continue. This is an interesting point. iTunes was the place to buy music. Not just digital.

John: How hard would it have been for them to buy some code and transition to streaming? Do they want the hip hop audience? That wasn't that successful.

Leo: When they bought Beats it was well under 200,000.

John: Why didn't they buy Spotify?

Leo: As it turns out, Spotify would have been a bad bet. They're losing more money this year than last year.

John: Apple can afford it.

Jolie: Didn't Jay Z and Rihanna announce that they're doing an artist thing...?

Leo: Title has an exclusive tonight. Prince is giving a concert in Baltimore, and Title has exclusive rights to stream it. They'll be streaming it for free. This is one of the things Apple doesn't like. They're saying stop giving your music to services like Spotify that offer free streaming. The theory is—

John: How is that working out for them?

Leo: They're getting investigated now. The federal government says, "You can't do that!"

John: Heil Apple. They have never really paid much attention to the rules.

Leo: No, they haven't. That goes back to Steve with the Stock option grant where they backdated—

John: They should have cracked down on these guys.

Leo: He knew it was illegal. He did it anyway. He was the guy who encouraged others to look into Valley companies to do non-competes, and not try to hire each other's employees. That's a violation of trust law... in both cases Steve got away with it.

John: Of course. Hail Apple.

Leo: Yeah. Maybe. Do you think this is just in the cooperate culture? "Rules aren't for us."

John: I don't know. We've been pretty relaxed in this country.

Jolie: It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Worse than this energy drink.

Leo: They are being investigated. The question is, will there be a free tier? Probably not to Beats. It's going to be paid only. What could Beats do? I'm asking the two wrong people, because I'm guessing neither of you listen to streaming music.

Jolie: I do.

Leo: What do you listen to?

Jolie: I use Spotify and Pandora.

John: Those are the big two.

Leo: I paid for Pandora, but I used Google All Access music.

Jolie: I still listen to CDs too. I'm that guy. I have tapes and records. Lots of records.

John: I just bought some records. Albany California had the whole town was garage sale. I went around and some old lady hoarder who was 101, left a bunch of 78s. I grabbed as many...

Leo: You have a player that would play those?

John: I have a Thorin, one of those radio station ones.

Leo: It goes 78 RPM?

John: I got it from KKLX. I have big pile of them.

Jolie: We're talking about the big, heavy 78s right? I used to play those on my Grandma's Victrola.

John: I have one of those crank ones. Anyway, they were giving them away, actually they were throwing them out. You would want one of these.

Leo: I would love it for my radio station. I have everything except cart machines and turn tables. Those are the things I need.

John: Anyway. I have one of those and I can play the 78s.

Leo: Have you hooked it up to anything?

John: It would also play 16s. Now I sound like an idiot. This is another garage sale find. Somebody had a bunch of the hypnosis discs.

Jolie: We crossed the line here.

John: At 16 RPM, you're supposed to play these things.

Leo: When you are awake, you'll feel wonderful.

Jolie: You can't get that on Beats.

Leo: No you can't.

John: Or Pandora for that matter.

Jolie: they're kind of sketchy.

Leo: You use Pandora and Spotify and you like it.

Jolie: On my Sonos system.

Leo: John, are you a Sonos guy too?

John: God no. I hooked the Thorins and some old tapes into the computer.

Leo: You have a Reel to reel?

John: I'm going to sell most of them. I started buying them... I have enough. You know what's real cool? I have a reel to reel that records and plays 8 tracks. You can move the 8 track from the reel to reel.

Jolie: Ladies and gentlemen, fifty years ago in tech.

John: If you are listening to these guys that are always moaning and groaning about lost media, I got an 8 track recorder.

Leo: You don't want that. You know who I talked to on Monday? Neil Young on Triangulation. I mentioned my favorite recording of his is a live performance he did in 71. It's just him and a guitar. It's beautiful. It's considered a classic. He said, "Yeah. That was recorded on a two-track." Analogue tape. Of course it was. I think he even agrees that analogue is the best. A great—

John: Except for one thing. The surface noise is out of control.

Leo: If you're in a car and the wind is blowing, you don't hear that.

Jolie: Neil Young is just a little nuts about that kind of thing.

Leo: You know what I bought the other day? Evan Katz, I blame you. He's an attorney in NYC. There were only 26,000 of them. The Beatles released... I was complaining to Neil. Why haven't the Beatles ever released anything more than CD quality of their music. Evan told me that they did. They released a metal Apple with a USB thumb drive in it that had all their albums at 24 bit.

John: Nice.

Leo: I bought it. It should come sometime soon. Don't know if I'll hear the difference.

John: You're too old.

Leo: For me, it's more the spirit of having... all the Beatles stuff was recorded on reel to reel. Unless you can get the reel to reel or some sort of analogue version of it, you're not going to get the best quality. Apparently when they re-mixed in 2009, they did digitize. They have to process it like crazy. They're old tapes.

Jolie: Real music fans, not audio nerds blow your ears out. It doesn't matter. You could listen to the dirtiest vinyl album into the world and it sounds great.

John: I've always worn ear protection.

Leo: When you were young in 65?

John: Curiously when I was a kid, I could get work during the summer. I worked in factories, Sheet Metal shops. They trained you to wear ear protection and take salt tablets.

Leo: Do you take salt tablets at every concert?

John: No. I don't take salt tablets at concerts.

Jolie: What are salt tablets for? Help me.

John: You sweat a lot and they want you to replenish your salts.

Jolie: I'll keep that in mind for the next time I go out dancing with groups.

John: Not a bad idea. So the ear protection. I discovered a couple things. I discovered the Fiber Glass ones by Billson.

Leo: Can I still get one of those? I still need good earplugs.

John: Get the Fiberglass ones. They're outstanding. There's a couple of them that have a little hole. Those are professional.

Leo: What you don't want to do is muffle it.

John: You want to attenuate.

Leo: that's tricky. That's why Cocktail napkins aren't the choice of audio files everywhere.

Jolie: That's what rock stars do.

Leo: Nowadays they wear the ultimate ears anyway. They're sealed, right? As a young man, I would go to concerts and sit next to the speakers. I liked—

Jolie: You're whole body vibrates.

Leo: As a result...

Jolie: You were a mosher, right?

Leo: We didn't have moshing in my day. We waltzed.

Jolie: You waltzed?

Leo: Fox trot. Where was I?

Jolie: We were talking about Beats and do you want to talk about Apple and DNA? I thought that was disturbing. Apple is working with US researchers to offer DNA testing via research kit. It says it right here.

Leo: This was a big deal. They made after their announcement of the Apple Watch that they were going to do partnerships with big hospitals to create a free open source product called research kit, which you can get on your phone. The idea was you could be monitoring people who had diabetes. You could use the watch to monitor things. The problem as far as I can tell, none of this is in my watch.

Jolie: Do you know that it's not in your watch?

John: Can I see it again?

Jolie: Don't touch it, John! It's rigged.

Leo: We did the Monkey.

Jolie: I've done it all.

Leo: That's the mosh pit. Everyone stands in front and they go, "God Save the Queen!" Then they go like that. Let's mosh.

John: You complain about what we do.

Jolie: Last time I moshed, I fell down in heels because some idiot poured beer in the mosh pit.

Leo: I hate it when that happens. Don't you fall down often in a mosh pit?

Jolie: No you don't. If you fall down in a mosh pit, you die. You get stomped. You stand up in a mosh pit, I don't care if somebody elbows you in the solar plexus, and you keep on trucking.

Leo: I have a permanent ringing in my ears as a result of sitting next to speakers. Tinnitus, they call it.

John: Chewing gum helps. You know that phony thing on the TV that cures tinnitus? It's gum. If you're chewing gum, it won't...

Leo: Because you're working your jaw?

John: I don't know why it works.

Leo: Neil Young is known for having hearing loss.

Jolie: How did we get back to Neil Young? We're talking about DNA.

Leo: He's a legend.

Jolie: I got to interview Polly Shore once.

Leo: Similar.

John: Polly Shore must have been hitting on you non-stop.

Jolie: I was talking to him about Technology user. I don't really know. Whatever.

Leo: I hate it when they trundle out celebrities like Ashton Kutcher to talk about technology, and they don't know.

Jolie: I had to be like, OK. Polly, do you like YouTube. Then he started talking about his Funny Or Die projects. OK. I'm not going to be able to publish any of this, but keep talking Polly.

John: What's your code?

Jolie: He never got the four digits. No one at this table is going to get that reference.

John: I didn't get the reference.

Jolie: It's because you're old. Listen to the damn radio. She ain't never got them four digits.

Leo: Is that a rap thing?

Jolie: Yes. It's hip hop.

Leo: There's something about people your age... how old are you?

Jolie: 33.

Leo: There's something about people your age, they really love the hip hop.

John: The rap music, the hip hop. People your age love it. They love the hip hop.

Jolie: We surely do.

Leo: That turned into Reverend Huckabee.

Jolie: How in the world would anyone want to turn their DNA over to a company? Any company? Any corporation?

Leo: I did. I volunteered for the personal genome project. Do you know about the personal genome project? Harvard medical school is doing this. This is all about helping humanity by giving your genome. Not just your genome, but answering a lot of health questions.

Jolie: I trust Harvard, I don't trust Apple.

Leo: I applied. They never accepted me. You pay them. This the full genome. You have to do a lot of questionnaires. They make it public with your name.

John: Not good.

Leo: You don't want to worry about whether somebody gets this information. The data is given to any researcher that wants it with your name. There's huge value. Think about it. Matching the genomic information with a lifetime health record. If they get enough people this could be valuable. I understand you would never want to do this, but a lot of people say... I wanted to do it. I'm at the point in my career, I'm not worried about insurance. I'm going to die soon anyway. Somebody did bring up this is an issue for your kids. By giving your genome to these guys you’re telling them something about your children. Myself I'm not worried about. In a way this is altruistic.

Jolie: Some modern version of eugenics? We're just weeding the flaws out of humanity. I have something to share that I've shared with my Internet community. I have bipolar I disorder.

Leo: Are you on medication for that?

Jolie: Of course I am. I am extremely stabilized. You would be getting rid of people like me and all my flaws and quirks... I would love to live without it but it's there.

Leo: We don't want to get rid of... K Jamison wrote an incredible book about bipolar I. Some of the most creative geniuses of our time...

Jolie: Mozart and all of those guys had it.

Leo: It is of course a dangerous disease and needs to be controlled, obviously. You're right, you don't want to weed out the quirky nature because you don't want to eliminate Van Gough, but wouldn't it be great if you could find a genetic component in this that would help with treatments. I agree, you don't want to do eugenics. You don't want to say to a pregnant woman OK. Let's take the genome and see if there's bipolar I.

John: At the end of the day, the insurance company jacks up your rate. That's what this is about.

Leo: We don't know what the cause is. It's probably a combination of genetic and environmental triggers. You maybe had a disposition towards it.

Jolie: My parents were both damn insane.

Leo: If there's not a family history of it, it's unlikely. So there is a genetic component to it, but it's also triggered by environmental circumstances. If you knew that, you might avoid those environmental circumstances, you might be more proactive. You might learn as a kid ways of dealing with it. I think this is... you're going to say it's the insurance companies wanting to find people. That's one of the reasons I wanted to volunteer. I don't care. If an insurance company banned me because of... it's a contribution to society. Anyway, they didn't accept me.

John: You're lucky.

Leo: Maybe I am. I don't know.

John: Someday you're going to realize that you're lucky.

Leo: Do you think if we had perfect genetic information and we were able to say that certain things were causes for alcoholism that would be a societal problem? It wouldn't be a benefit to society?

John: I think privacy is more important than...

Leo: You sprouted a dog.

John: It's one of these ruining points.

Leo: You don't think there's some value to that?

John: I don't think so. Nah.

Leo: As humans we've done all right so far.

Jolie: You can weed through the genetics; you can't weed through all the triggers. We'll come up with new ways to be f'd up.

Leo: Good! There's nothing to fear!

Jolie: There's lots to fear. Lots and lots.

Leo: I understand the argument. It's a legitimate argument. What if Van Gough had been aborted? That would be a great loss to human kind.

John: He would have been on the list. That's for sure.

Leo: What about Beats?

John: I want to tell you something about this thing of yours.

Leo: The watch?

John: The watch. The Apple Watch, I clicked on the New York Times. This is the value of the watch. Right at the top. Tampa Bay has taken Jamis Wynston with the top pick in the NFL. What kind of news is this?

Leo: It's not the most interesting.

John: It's not the most recent. It's over.

Leo: They consider that a story, huh.

John: I'm going to go to story 2. News outlets in Germany say that the spies help monitor European allies. This is a two-month old story. This is a scam!

Leo: I'm sweating now.

John: Take some salt pills.

Leo: Our show to you today brought to you by something you don't like.

John: I like everything.

Leo: You never listen to. Audio books? Do you like those?

Jolie: I can't read. I'm bad at listening. I don't read and I don't listen. I just look fabulous.

Leo: You do look fabulous.

John: That will get the chat room going. It takes a while for them to catch up. They're 20 seconds behind the show.

Jolie: We're a drinking game. Is there a bull crap drinking game? You say that a lot.

Leo: It says here on my Android wear, Dewey has won the election. I think the Apple Watch wins. Our show to you today brought by... I can't read. First of all, my eyesight. I started getting the New York Times are they making it smaller? I can't read it. I'm going to be like my Grandpa with a magnifying glass. I try to read books at night. I love books. What if you want to read a book? Audible saved my life. There is plenty of times that you're in the car. I had a two-hour a day commute. You're at the gym; you're on the treadmill. I spend hours every day on the treadmill. Thank goodness for Audible books. When I started being an Audible subscriber (I started in February 2000) that changed my life. Suddenly I'm reading books in the car. I'm reading books. I was talking to Daria Rose, Kevin's wife. She reads five books a month, because suddenly you have access to this stuff during the time you couldn't hold a book.

John: Summer tomato.

Leo: 180,000 titles on Audible. Audio books are so big now they come out with the publishing. So you're going to get the best sellers, the new Nora Roberts. David Brooks. That's a good one. The Road to Character. He's a right-winger like you.

John: I'm not a right-winger!

Leo: Hacker mom. As a stay at home mom with an adorable 4-year old son, Becky Taylor knows she has her hands full, even though she's juggling her husband's career ambitions, competitive play group moms, and a sister who won't stop reminding her of the dreams she once had to fight for social justice. Becky knows something is missing. She discovers a disc with damaging information about a mega-bank. Becky begins covertly moonlighting for one of the world's most controversial websites. I listened to the Circle on this. It was awesome. The other John's favorite series is the Otherland series by Tad Williams. It just appeared on Audible. You're right, John. It's amazing. It's about virtual reality. It's the future, when virtual reality is perfected or is it? This is a great one. You could get the first two books. You could get one of these and another great books. There are unlimited great books at 180,000 and I got two free for you. Wait a minute. New Neil Stephenson. It just came out. May 19, it's coming out. I got to put that on my pre-order list. I'm a huge Neil Stephenson fan. The best way in the world to read at the gym, when you're driving the car, when you're walking. You're going to get two books free. You're signing up for the Platinum plan. I recommend Becoming Steve Jobs. I just finished it that. I cried all over again. There are so many things, I can't wait to choose. I can't wait to read Eric Larson's newest. He's the guy who did Devil in the White City. His newest is about the Lusitania. Dead Wake. Great stuff., and the daily digest of the New York times and the Wall Street Journal, so you don't have to read that tiny print anymore.

Jolie: Search and see if they have Sophocles.

Leo: You want Antigone? Oedipus the King?

Jolie: Oedipus the King I like. Antigone I like. Do they do the voices?

Leo: That's what you're looking for on Audible. When it's full cast that means it's a bunch of people. Do you want to listen to a little Sophocles?

Jolie: Let's hear it.

SOPHOCLES: Man disputes your power, but live over the living.

Leo: what's also great is they have the courses on here, which are those great college courses. The best college lecturers. I bet you they have a great course on philosophy or literature. What do you think? Cultural literacy for religion. Einstein's relativity. Modern physics for non-scientists. These aren't books, these are courses. I have loved these.

Jolie: The Vikings! We come from the land of ice and snow...

Leo: Do you want to know more about the Vikings?

Jolie: Yes. There are three of us. Surely we can pull this off.

(Leo and Jolie sing.)

Jolie: We're done. Where the hell is this show going?

Leo: Now you ask.

John: OK. We're back.

Leo: Second Circuit court of appeals on Thursday rules that the mass collection of telephone Meta data is not authorized by the Patriot act section II 15 as the NSA believed. It's illegal.

Jolie: Do we think this will go to the Supreme Court?

Leo: I don't think the government is going to let this sit.

John: They like the idea of collecting random data. This is all for black mail purposes.

Leo: After the Supreme Court, is the Supreme Court next?

John: The Circuit Courts are one level below the Supreme Court. I guess the Government would again go to the Supreme Court, giving them one case for these aged justices.

Jolie: They're aged, but RBG is awesome.

Leo: Ruth Bader Ginsberg?

Jolie: She got drunk and fell asleep at the State of the Union. She comes out and slaps everyone over marriage equality. I love her. I love Kate McKinnon playing her on SNL. I'm old enough and I still watch SNL. Back to the news.

Leo: You John. Do you feel like who cares? This isn't going to make any difference because the NSA will continue to do it?

John: Sure why wouldn't they? Who is going to know? What's the point of doing all this collection? It's just for blackmail purposes.

Leo: Really great story in The Week this weekend. He does a call back to Cory Doctorow. Cory in one of his adult novels talks about the math that apparently the NSA doesn't understand that demonstrates these mass surveillance techniques don't work. This is an article by Ryan Cooper. I'll give you a thought experiment. My Chrome crashed. What if you had a technique that could detect terrorists with 99.9% accuracy?

Jolie: Like Minority Report?

Leo: I don't know if such a thing worked. What if you could detect with 99.9% accuracy? The problem that is raised, if you search through every million records you collect, you'll have 1000 false positives. 1000 people who are not terrorists but are flagged as terrorists. Every single one of them, the FBI has to investigate. That's exactly the problem with this mass surveillance. Bruce Shinier in his new book says in the years after 9/11, the NSA passed to the FBI thousands of tips per month. Every one of them turned out to be a false alarm, which is about what you'd expect. Even if you had 99.9% accuracy. The cost was enormous and ended up frustrating the FBI. The agents were obligated to investigate all the tips. Schneier said we saw this with the suspicious activity reports. SAR database. Tens of thousands of reports, zero actual results. In all the telephone Meta data the NSA collected led to just one success. The conviction of a taxi driver who send 85 hundred dollars to a Somali group that posed no direct threat to the US.

John: That is one of the examples that they hold up before a congress.

Leo: See? It worked! Simple math would tell you that the mass collection of data is the wrong thing to do, because you're creating more false positives that are impossible to track down. Whether it's constitutional or not, whether it's justified by the Patriot Act or not, it's the wrong thing to do. There's a message for you, John. It says the 49ers have just drafted Joe Montana in the 8th round. You guys have nothing to say about that.

Jolie: Not about that, no.

John: Joe Montana was in the first round. He wasn't first pick, but he was first round.

Leo: Out of Brigham Young!

John: that's the other guy. Steve Young.

Leo: Is he any relation to Brigham Young?

John: Yes.

Jolie: Really? Well the guy had 90 wives or something.

Leo: We're all related to Brigham, if you think about the math. If there were 99.9% of all the wives of Brigham Young...

John: Some wisenheimer in here says she didn't know who Joe Montana is.

Jolie: I was a 49ers fan before you knew how to use the bathroom by yourself.

Leo: Are you a cousin of August Dvorak? The man who invented...

John: Supposedly.

Leo: Really?

John: Yeah. All Dvoraks are related.

Leo: For years I asked your relation to Antonin Dvorak...

John: totally related. Everyone is related. All Dvoraks.

Leo: Distantly.

John: Amounts to nothing. You wanted to demean me, so you brought this up. I think it's fine if you wanted to do that. You do it constantly.

Leo: Are you bitter about something, John? Is there something you want to talk about?

Jolie: You did ban him from the show.

Leo: That's why he's never on.

John: I know Jolie was banned.

Jolie: Why was I banned? You can tell me. I'm a journalist.

Leo: You know why you were banned? Because you said I don't want to do technology anymore. I thought I couldn't have you on any more.

Jolie: So I'm not interesting because I don't work in the technology field and I'm essentially irrelevant?

John: I can tell you why you were banned. I know.

Jolie: Okay, you lean back.

John: The chatroom has issues with her because she is a good looking woman, and the chatroom hates women.

Jolie: And I'm mouthy.

John: And she's mouthy. She should shut up.

Leo: Worst of both worlds. Aaron says, totally true.

Jolie: How does that coffee taste sweetheart?

Leo: Is the fake flavor of almonds in there? Just a hint of almonds?

John: Yeah almonds.

Jolie: I love him dearly.

Leo: Aaron is a sweetheart. And you are a sweetheart. You two are great. You play a character, but you play her well.

John: And she is a character.

Leo: You are a character.

Jolie: I am a character.

Leo: Nothing wrong with that. God help me now. Just take me away.

John: It says JCD is throwing us under the bus. Yeah.

Leo: The chatroom does not, in fact, determine who gets on the show. Amazingly enough.

John: I know the truth. I've been here long enough. I'm not an idiot.

Leo: Oh wait a minute. Let me get your Mao jackets.

John: Oh yeah, my Mao jackets.

Leo: I don't want to forget this time.

John: Yeah, you keep forgetting.

Leo: Talk amongst yourselves.

John: So how are you doing?

Jolie: Fabulous.

John: Now are you keeping up with technology at all?

Jolie: No.

John: Okay, good.

Jolie: I think that is obvious from this conversation.

John: I know, but with Aaron I can't imagine what things you talk about at the dinner table. Well, you are cooking, because you like to cook.

Jolie: I am.

John: So you cook, and then he sits down and plays on his laptop and doesn't do anything? He never says hello?

Jolie: No, we talk about things. Like normal people things.

John: Normal people things. So my son, who is a pretty good coder, he goes out and he floats around for jobs. So apparently he went to Cisco, no not Cisco, Oracle, and he had a really good interview. Then his buddy, who was back, says what do you think? Well they liked you except they were concerned that you had outside interests.

Jolie: Not outside interests!

Leo: That's hardly allowed.

John: Well, you don't want anybody with any such interests.

Jolie: Now what are these?

Leo: This is the strangest shipment that I have ever got. It's a huge box from China.

John: From China?

Leo: From China. It was addressed to me, but then I looked inside and it said for John C. Dvorak.

John: Three of these?

Leo: Three Mao suits. And not like costume wear. This is like high quality.

Jolie: Seriously?

John: The real deal.

Leo: These are beautiful.

Jolie: Alright, go to the little boy’s room and get changed. Immediately.

John: I know why this happened.

Leo: Look at this. These are gorgeous. This is like the real deal. Some of these are quilted for winter.

Jolie: Is that double knit polyester?

Leo: No, I think that this is wool.

John: They are probably wool. It's cheaper.

Jolie: No, no, it's double knit.

Leo: This is from a tailor.

John: Try this one. Try this one.

Leo: This is the real deal. I think that this one is the quilted one. Let's all three of us put them on right now.

Jolie: That's beautiful. It's felty.

Leo: Isn't that nice?

Jolie: Let's go dress in Mao suits and talk about Apple some more.

John: Well, when he takes the next commercial break the two of us will do that.

Leo: So do you know why you got 3, I mean this is from a tailor, these are tailored. This isn't costume wear. This is the real deal.

John: They are the real deal. I know the idea of where this came from. Oh, what's this? I have this standing story of the first time that I went to China, before they had become China, today's ilk of China, in '96 I believe, maybe earlier, I wrote about and bitched continuously about when we went to buy some Mao jackets. The time you go to China they were all wearing Hawaiian shirts. They kind of looked like you. They were wearing Hawaiian shirts. There was not a Mao jacket to be had. You bring it up to somebody and they were like, oh, those were all shipped to the peasants in the farms. You can't get a Mao jacket. You can now obviously.

Leo: You have 3 of the best quality.

John: So I bitched about it, and now I've got 3 Mao jackets. Complaining always pays off.

Leo: The tailor is, well this says Yin Hai, but the tailor...

John: That might just be the thing.

Leo: Well that might just be the bag. But this is a suit.

John: Good, I will be wearing it from now on when I come on the show.

Leo: I think that you should wear this every time. I tried them on, and they fit me, but a little tight, so I think that they will probably fit you perfectly. Obviously they have your measurements. Did you publish those at some point?

John: No, they just took a guess.

Leo: They guessed well.

John: Well, I don't know yet. I haven't tried one on.

Leo: But there was not letter inside or anything. I just deduced that they were for you because it said your name.

John: That would do it, yes, if it has my name.

Leo: I had no reason to think that anyone would send me Mao jackets.

John: I have a reason.

Leo: I meant to give these to you the last time that you were here, which was just a few weeks ago if you remember.

John: It was a month ago.

Leo: Which is a lot for somebody who has been banned. I forgot to give them to you last time, so please take them.

John: I'm not totally banned.

Leo: You aren't banned?

John: But she is.

Leo: Yes, she's totally banned. You are banned.

Jolie: Because I am here.

Leo: What are you doing here? Didn't you know? You are banned.

Jolie: Because I've got buns in the trunk. Referring to my hot cross buns that I keep in the trunk of my car.

John: I'm not even going to bring it up.

Jolie: Go for it Leo. Say something. Say anything.

Leo: Why do you torture me? Why do you torture me like this?

Jolie: Because it's fun. Can we talk for a second about Oculus Rift please?

Leo: Pick something. Anything.

Jolie: I want to talk about Oculus Rift.

Leo: Are you excited? Have you worn the Rift yet?

Jolie: Look at me. Do you think that I would?

Leo: Somehow I don't think that you would be a fan.

John: I have.

Leo: I had one. I gave it to Chris.

John: Dynamite.

Leo: Really? Are you excited about it?

John: Well, the one that I saw, which I don't even know if it was the one that I was supposed to see, was dynamite.

Leo: Did it not make you nauseous?

John: No, not at all.

Leo: It made me nauseous.

John: Yeah, but your eyesight is different than the normal person.

Leo: It's true, I don't have normal eyesight. I have the eyes of an eagle. Oh, wait a minute. Oculus warned Sony to solve motion sickness before launching a VR headset.

John: I guess other people were affected.

Leo: I guess other people have that. So I have played with Oculus, both the headset from the Kickstarter project, because I donated and got the original. I don't think that I have used the latest one, which is a higher frame rate and higher resolution. Although somebody brought one in, I don't know if you remember, we did a 3D virtual reality fighting game, and I had a stick, and I was wearing a Rift. That's when I got really nauseous. I was going through terrain, and fighting, and shooting.

John: I wouldn't do that.

Leo: Then, of course, I have used the more recent Gear VR's, the Samsung. That's also Oculus Rift technology, although you put a Galaxy Note 4, or now an S6 in this $200 holder basically. The software does it. Of course, I have used Google's Cardboard VR, which did not make me nauseous.

John: Google doesn't make you nauseous?

Leo: No, I love Google. You know that.

John: Hail Google.

Leo: Apparently, Facebook, which bought Oculus Rift, there is a rumor; this is from The Guardian, which they won a Pulitzer Prize once, so I think they are pretty...

John: They can't be wrong.

Leo: They can't be wrong. Apparently it will ship early 2016, like 6 months from now. 7 months from now.

John: I believe that's the device there.

Leo: This is the one?

Jolie: I think that they will hold off until F8 personally.

Leo: F8 is the developer conference, and it just happened, so it would be a full year from right now.

Jolie: Oh, it was tweeted by...

Leo: It was tweeted by the VP of Product.

Jolie: So that's not a report.

Leo: "Extremely excited to announce that the Oculus Rift will be shipping Q1 2016 and we can't wait to get it in your hands." Now, I've used the Gear, and I think that the Gear is interesting.

John: Apparently you, in the chatroom, have been predicting 3D porn.

Leo: Predicting? I've used it.

Jolie: Duh. What? Let's hear more about that. I'm really curious.

Leo: So, there are websites now. I'm sorry about this Lucas. Is that your name, Lucas?

John: He's frightened.

Jolie: Let's just call them naughty films.

Leo: Cover his ears for me.

Jolie: Let's keep it clean.

Leo: I will see if I can do this in a veiled fashion.

Jolie: Let's keep this family friendly.

John: You can, you don't have to bounce so much.

Leo: You can tell, I'm jiggling my leg. I'm nervous.

John: It's pretty obvious.

Leo: Want to see my heart rate? Wait a minute. John's got mine.

John: Hail Apple.

Leo: So with the Gear VR there are websites that you can go to. I didn't watch a whole movie, there were trailers of adult content for the Gear VR. I watched a few different trailers. Most of them are first person. Do you know what I am saying?

Jolie: I do.

Leo: But what is interesting is that you can be a male or a female. I tried both.

John: Is there a button that you can push? And you tried both?

Jolie: I assume that they are all heteronormative?

Leo: Well I wouldn't assume that. The 3 I saw were.

John: Heteronormative.

Leo: Although is it normative for me to play the woman?

Jolie: No.

John: There you go.

Jolie: Good for you for letting your freak flag fly.

Leo: Well I wanted to try it. It's very vivid.

John: Oh really?

Leo: Because you are wearing the thing. They must record it with, in fact I have seen that Scoble has a device that has multiple GoPros. It's like Gandolph's wand with like 6 GoPros on top of it. That's what you would use because the GoPro is a pretty wide angle and it records basically a sphere. The guy must have had that and been holding it like this. So you put on the helmet and you are there. You can look up, you can look down, you can look left, you can look right, you are actually in the scene as it would look like if you were there.

John: How long did you stay?

Leo: Well, it was short. It was a trailer. So only a minute.

John: It was just a trailer?

Jolie: But you watched 3 of them?

Leo: Yes, I would have watched more had there been. No, it's actually, how can I say this? It's pretty compelling. I don't know, it might be gimmicky, it's probably something that you wouldn't do all of the time, but it's surprisingly immersive.

John: You only need a few minutes.

Leo: Yeah.

Jolie: You remember that quote by The Dude from the Big Lebowski where he is talking to Jackie Treehorn and he says, cover the kid's ears, I prefer to jerk off manually? Call me old fashioned.

Leo: Well, there is nothing to say that you couldn't. It's just input. But I thought that it was very interesting. That is going to be, I think, that is going to be a big category. That is what often drives new technology.

John: I knew that you were going to say that.

Leo: Is that a trope?

John: That's crap.

Leo: Didn't it drive VCRs? Didn't it, in fact, kill Beta because Beta did not allow adult material but VHS did?

John: No, the reason that VHS took over was because you could record a whole football game. You couldn't do that with Beta.

Leo: Alright.

John: I've always found that this argument was bogus. Oh, all of the hottest technology comes from porn. It doesn't.

Leo: No, I agree, it's an overgeneralization, but there is some truth to it. Electronic payments, micro payments...

Jolie: I think that it might be more accurate to say, if you are going for causation, that the pornography industry looks to exploit new technology before a lot of others would.

John: They rush to it.

Leo: Exactly.

John: But that doesn't mean that they are making it happen.

Leo: No, no, no, no. On the other hand, an influx of money into any technology is going to help foster that technology. Why am I wearing this hat?

Jolie: It's your thinking cap. You can get rid of that.

Leo: How did that happen? Okay. I am much more interested in augmented reality instead of virtual reality. That is where you are still wearing a visor, but you see what is going on. You see the world around you, and superimposed upon it is a user interface. This is something that Microsoft has been showing with HoloLens. In fact that will be coming out sometime this year even, later in the fall probably. They did show, and we talked about this before, at Build a couple of weeks ago, and Paul Thurrott was kind of disappointed because it was kind of a narrow field of view. The AR was as big as a little raccoon visor thing. I think that is more compelling. It's not good for adult material, obviously you would want immersive for that. For movies and some gaming you would want immersive. If they can get over the nausea factor. But other than that. Why are you hanging your head?

Jolie: It's the nausea factor.

Leo: It would make you nauseous. Forget John.

John: Talk amongst yourselves.

Leo: I found it interesting to be the girl in this scenario.

Jolie: With a dude?

John: Now you are concerned.

Jolie: Okay, it’s not that interesting honey.

Leo: I'm sorry Aaron.

Jolie: I love you. I have shamed my family today.

Leo: No, I love Aaron.

Jolie: I love him too, so much.

Leo: I think that he is a great guy.

Jolie: He is the light of my life and he treats me like a queen for no good reason.

Leo: He's darling. He's also a damn lucky fellow. We all agree on that. Right Aaron? Yep. Our show today is brought to you by, in fact I have a great product for you two.

John: Now here we go.

Jolie: Lay it on me.

Leo: It's not an Audiobook. It's a Casper mattress. Have you heard Howard Stern do the ads for these, because he does go there. But I'm not going to go there because I'm a nice person.

Jolie: And it's a family show.

Leo: I don't think that it is anymore. Casper had a problem. They knew that they could make the best mattresses ever. Made in the United States, made out of high quality memory foam and latex, really comfortable; firm but giving just like a good husband. That's for you. I did that for your benefit. Are you firm but giving Aaron? Absolutely.

Jolie: I don't even know what that means.

Leo: Nobody is going to buy a mattress online, right? You have got to try before you buy. Let me say this to you. In fact, do we have the video? I got my Casper mattress. Lying on a mattress in the show room is no way to try a mattress. I can just see you and Aaron, you want to buy a new mattress, have you ever bought a mattress in a showroom? The shop girl is looking at you, you are in broad daylight, there are other people; you can't really figure out if that mattress is what you want to sleep on.

Jolie: Unless you are a bold, interesting personality, and you don't care.

Leo: Bolder than me. So here is the deal; you get to try this for 100 nights. Casper offers free delivery and painless returns within the 100 day period. Look, you don't have to try a mattress in the showroom. There is no way that they could sell mattresses online unless they let you try them at home, and for 100 days, and believe me, it's easy to return it. But you are not going to want to because it's the best mattress that you ever had. Get a Casper mattress, it's very affordable too because there is no show room, $500 for a twin, $950 for a king size. You know what? I would like to send you and Aaron a Casper mattress for you to try.

Jolie: Well he has neck problems and back spasms.

Leo: Oh Aaron, please let me send you one and you can report, absolutely honestly report back.

Jolie: Well we can buy one.

Leo: You are going to love it. You are going to love the Casper mattress.

Jolie: Do you want to try one darling?

Leo: In fact, if you do, use the offer code TWIT.

Jolie: Order one now.

Leo: No, no, we will get you one.

Jolie: I'm a journalist.

Leo: Oh, you aren't allowed have a...

Jolie: I'm not a journalist anymore actually. But I'm a woman of integrity.

Leo: This is a wearable. A mattress is a wearable.

John: Just give it to Aaron. Don't give it to her.

Leo: I'm giving it to Aaron. Aaron, go to and use the promo code TWIT for $50 off. If you guys wanted one I would be glad to send you one. My son has one at college and he adores it. I sent one, I can't remember which host I sent one to.

John: He adores it?

Leo: Yeah, you will not want to return this. You will love it., use the offer code TWIT for $50 off. I'm just teasing.

Jolie: Is it as nice as the Sofitel beds?

Leo: Do you prefer the W or the Sofitel?

Jolie: The Sofitel. The W is a brothel.

Leo: You don't like the heavenly beds at the Ws? It's a brothel?

Jolie: Yes, anytime I walk into a W I always see...

Leo: Remember Lucas.

Jolie: Ladies of the evening peddling their wares.

Leo: Those are women at night.

John: What town are you talking about.

Jolie: Who are very fond of snow.

John: They are fond of snow. I get it!

Jolie: Yep, you got it. Brothels.

Leo: So it's winter, right?

John: Yeah, it's cold.

Leo: So it's chilly, so they...

Jolie: I'm sorry.

John: Dvorak wants to know where.

Leo: Do you know that the NSA actually has a program called Skynet according to Edward Snowden?

John: Why not?

Leo: Why not?

Jolie: Register my shock.

Leo: What's funny is that obviously there are people at the NSA, and in almost every case they are patriots who are trying to protect the United States. Maybe they go a little far in my opinion, but they are doing what they think is the right thing for the United States. They want to protect the US against terrorism, right?

Jolie: Who doesn't?

Leo: Right. Well lots of people probably don't care.

Jolie: Terrorists.

Leo: Terrorists. What I'm saying is that they are not doing this for nefarious reasons. They think that this is the best way to protect the US. But they have a sense of humor about it, so they have funny names for their programs. But Skynet?

John: Yeah, that's bad.

Leo: That's kind of humorous.

John: Well, it's humorous for sure.

Leo: It's good self-awareness. They said, oh, we know what we are doing. Skynet, of course, was the machines that ruled the world in the Terminator movies.

John: Right, they took over.

Leo: They took over, and it was called Skynet. Skynet, by the way, according to the Terminator, cannon was turned on, I think, last year. Just saying.

John: Good to know. Next.

Leo: I feel like your insatiable information mah needs to be fed.

John: Yeah, that's me.

Leo: We will find something for you. The feds, however, one piece of good news, one piece of bad news, we have also found out that the feds no longer need a warrant to search your phone location records.

Jolie: Now this is a district court.

Leo: Yes.

Jolie: This has been going on for years.

Leo: That's right.

Jolie: I think that it is another case for the Supreme Court.

Leo: It will be I'm sure. The Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit ruled that the government does not need a warrant to search wireless carrier's cell phone records. That's a reversal of, I thought, a much better decision from last year. The case focuses on a fellow named Cortavious Davis who was accused of armed robbery. Prosecutors tracked Cortavious using location records obtained from his phone carrier, Metro PCS. 11,000 location records. Davis' lawyers said that the records should be inadmissible because they were done without a warrant or probable cause, violating his 4th Amendment rights. The court said, "The government only needs to meet the standard for records obtainable under the Stored Communications Act." So the bar that the government has to live up to is, this is very strange language, "specific and articulable facts showing that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the records are relevant and material."

Jolie: Isn't that probable cause?

Leo: Nah.

Jolie: Nah?

Leo: I think that is a lower standard. But I think that is the question that the courts are being asked. It sounds like, so specific and articulable facts, well we think Cortavious is a robber. Showing that there are reasonable grounds to believe, he was seen in the vicinity and he has more money than he ought to. Relevant material to an ongoing criminal investigation, we are investigating these robberies. I think that you don't need much of a standard to do that.

Jolie: Are you sure? That's all circumstantial, and circumstantial evidence is not what we base our justice system on.

Leo: That's right, it's circumstantial.

John: That's not true.

Jolie: You know, in theory.

Leo: People go to jail for circumstantial evidence.

John: Most cases are circumstantial.

Leo: Because unless you were there, Aaron Hernandez, that was circumstantial, right? Unless you were there and you saw it happens.

John: Did you talk about on this particular show the SSD's losing data?

Leo: No, I did not. Would you like to talk about that?

John: Well, more than what you are talking about now, which seems a little dull.

Leo: I thought you, as a civil libertarian, would be excited about this.

John: I am a civil libertarian, but a minute ago I was a Republican right winger.

Leo: Same thing.

John: SSD's risk a massive loss of data researchers warn. Now, the reason that I want to bring this up is that you used to have this theory. If you are not refreshing your hard drive all of the time they are just going to go away. All of the magnetism.

Leo: Cosmic rays. Remember that?

John: All I know is that you used to be a big believer.

Leo: In refreshing your hard drive.

John: Yes.

Leo: In those days maybe you did.

John: Nah. But this, SSDs. Flash memory is a risky technology to begin with. It wears out, which a lot of people don't realize.

Leo: Or experience.

John: Well, I have experienced it with 2 compact...

Leo: They've worn out?

John: No, they've just blown up. But they do wear out.

Leo: This is a weird study, and I actually am very curious. It's fairly old. It comes from March 2013.

John: Yeah, it's old.

Leo: So I don't find it compelling. Have you lost a lot of data?

John: I'm just saying that this is more interesting than discussing civil rights.

Leo: I'm sure that in 2013 it was fascinating. Wait a minute, now they have drafted Steve Young, first round draft pick out of BYU.

John: I got the story on the New York Times site.

Leo: It's exciting.

John: Right here, want to see it?

Leo: Have you noticed that this happens a lot in the tech blogosphere. Old stories, somebody finds and old story and thinks that it is new, and publishes an article about it. Everybody else, instead of researching or finding any more about it, they just pull it and pretty soon it's a new story again.

John: Here is another one from the New York Times.

Leo: Okay.

John: The Obama Presidential Library will be on the south side of Chicago. What is this?

Leo: Is that not true?

John: Well it's not true.

Leo: Okay, so the International Business Times, the bastion of journalism, the IBT, the own Newsweek too by the way...

Jolie: Good for them.

Leo: Is reporting, May 18, 2015, SSD's lose data if left without power for just 7 days. That is a rehash of the 2013 story.

John: Yeah, it's a lie by the way.

Leo: It's not even true.

John: They will blow up. The SSD has 2 problems.

Leo: I have not experienced these.

John: You will.

Leo: Every one of my computers has an SSD on it.

John: One, they will either crap out because the controller goes back and blows up. The second one is that it will wear out.

Jolie: Can we talk about something awesome?

Leo: Please.

Jolie: On June 1st I am going to Facebook headquarters with a bunch of drag queens to protest a real name policy.

Leo: Good for you. Apparently the only ones who don't like Facebook's real name policy are drag queens.

Jolie: No, no, it's people who have been sexually assaulted...

Leo: They want to be on Facebook, but they don't want to be in public.

Jolie: Yeah, it's people who are trying to escape from abusive partners. It's people like me.

Leo: You don't want to use your real name?

Jolie: I don't use my real name.

Leo: Jolie Odell is not who you are?

Jolie: No, it's not.

Leo: Are you an impersonator?

Jolie: I'm protecting my family.

Leo: Rightly so.

Jolie: So they don't get harassed when these troll in the chatroom start threatening me or whatever.

Leo: Leo Laporte is not my real name. That hasn't stopped the trolls.

Jolie: It's Delores isn't it?

Leo: It's Delores. Can I be one of the drag queens that come with you?

Jolie: It's a lot transgendered people.

John: Oh my god.

Jolie: Honey, we will turn you out.

Leo: I think that would be good reportage.

Jolie: I think so.

Leo: I could go, and I could say Mark, Mark.

John: Mark.

Leo: Mark. This is Leo Laporte, and I have finally entered the sanctorum of Facebook.

Jolie: Have you not been there?

John: She drove the show off the road.

Jolie: No, it's very relevant.

Leo: This is good stuff.

Jolie: It affects trans people all over the place. Often they are living their lives, Bruce Jenner for example, if he had a Facebook profile that anybody could find or know about, when he decides to change his name then she will have to prove to Facebook that she has all of the documentation for that.

John: Why doesn't he just start a new page? See, I don't use Facebook.

Jolie: A new Facebook account? Because then he would have to dump all of his friends.

Leo: I think that it's interesting that he doesn't want to change his name. He wants to continue as Bruce.

Jolie: Until they pick out a new name.

Leo: But you think that he will change his name? Why are we talking about Bruce Jenner? This is I am working on the makeup job, I think that I have got it down pretty well.

Jolie: Is this an app or is this you?

Leo: This is an app.

John: That's an app?

Jolie: Is it Perfect 360?

Leo: No, it's from Loreal. It's a makeup app. You chose the makeup.

John: This is very disturbing Leo.

Leo: It's extremely disturbing.

Jolie: I have something to show you though.

Leo: It's extremely disturbing. Loreal makes this program. It's done in real time. I'm moving around and the eyeliner, and the mascara, and the lipstick is all moving around.

John: Where is Lisa?

Leo: She did it. This is her Instagram. She did it to me.

John: That makes sense.

Leo: Yeah, she likes to humiliate me. Just like you, John.

John: I do nothing. I'm just sitting here passively.

Leo: Not passively enough my friend.

John: Just enjoying...

Leo: Enjoying the nuts.

John: Nuts.

Leo: Enjoying the nice warm nuts.

Jolie: Here, I did that to Aaron.

Leo: You did the same thing?

John: Aaron is now going to be humiliated.

Jolie: But this is not, sorry honey, I love you so much.

Leo: But this is not an app. This is actual real.

Jolie: No, this is an app called Perfect 360.

John: That's the way that Aaron normally looks actually.

Jolie: This looks better than that.

Leo: It looks good.

John: It looks better than yours.

Leo: Was it in black and white originally or did you do that?

Jolie: No, I did that.

Leo: I would be really too offensive.

Jolie: He is adorable. Except for the stubble.

Leo: So you are going to go with the drag queens to the Facebook to say, and I think that this is completely legitimate...

Jolie: Yes I am. They should let people chose what names they want.

Leo: Don't you think that there is a benefit to a real names policy in that when you are using your real name you are less likely to be evil?

Jolie: Oh, that's not true. Bullying on Facebook is such a thing, and the people who are doing the bullying don't care if they are known as bullies. They are just buttheads.

John: My thinking is get off Facebook.

Leo: There isn't really a need or right to be on Facebook.

John: It is crap. It is a crappy service that is unhealthy for everybody. People are scanning on it, they are on Facebook every day.

Leo: Are you on Facebook John?

John: Nope.

Jolie: I keep in touch with my family on Facebook.

Leo: That's why people stay on Facebook.

Jolie: That's the only reason that I use it.

Leo: That's why people stay on Facebook, because it's a way to stay in touch with family or friends. I think that you are right, John, a lot of people feel bad about being on Facebook and know that that is a bad experience. I tell you, where it is such a huge benefit is after the Nepal quake. Facebook has a safety check at If you are in a disaster area, the next time you log on to Facebook, they say we see you, you are in Nepal or Katmandu, let your friends and family know that you are okay with a status update. It turns out that I have friends who have friends there.

John: How do they do this? On the cell phone that they could actually call their friends with?

Leo: That's exactly right. Apparently, I didn't know this...

John: You can't say mom, I'm okay? That's no good, you have to post it on Facebook?

Leo: First of all, it puts it out faster.

John: Faster than calling?

Leo: Well you can't call all of your friends. You might call your mom. You should call your mom. It's Mother's Day.

Jolie: Yes please. Unless she has passed on or you don't speak to her for a reason.

Leo: I sense a current of unhappiness.

Jolie: Leo. Leo.

Leo: Yes.

Jolie: No please, continue on with your little show.

Leo: Why Odell? Like the farmer in the dell?

Jolie: That's my family name on my father's side.

Leo: So it wasn't a made up name, it's just not your generally used name.

John: She probably uses a pseudo name when she checks into hotels.

Jolie: What are you saying?

John: That's what I said.

Leo: I always use the name Johnny Depp when I check into hotels.

John: Johnny Depp.

Leo: I find that it is much more likely...

John: I heard Johnny Depp is in here. Nice try. No. Yeah, I'm Johnny Depp.

Leo: What do you want? If I went as a drag queen, what would my name be?

Jolie: Well my drag name, I do bio queen, faux queen, when a girl dresses up as a drag queen, is Jolie Laqueer. So you would be my drag daughter, part of the house of Laqueer, and you would be...

Leo: Can I be Leo Laqueer?

John: Leo Laqueer, or Leah.

Jolie: Leah.

Leo: Leah Laqueer.

Jolie: Or Lola.

John: Lola Laqueer. I like that. You look like a Lola. Especially in that picture.

Jolie: It just spills off the tongue. It's melodious.

John: It will give you something to do.

Jolie: June 1st. We are going to make it happen. We are going to force change.

Leo: My experience, and I have done many of these, is that it doesn't change anything at all. They just go, that's so annoying, get out of here. But if you do make a difference...

John: What have you done? You have gone to Facebook in a protest?

Leo: Protests and that kind of thing.

John: Or you just mean protests.

Jolie: I haven't done protests since 9/11.

Leo: What did you protest at 9/11? Did you protest terrorists?

Jolie: Well, let's see.

Leo: You know, I hate those terrorists.

Jolie: I was in college, and I used a lot of drugs. I had no idea what I was doing. But we went to the freedom concert in DC and we were protesting something.

Leo: I hate terrorists! No more terrorists! No more terrorists! Hey, hey, Osama Bin Laden, how many people have you killed today? Hey!

John: That's terrible.

Jolie: Oh god.

Leo: It's just a protest against terrorists.

John: I mean you are out of rhythm, there is no rhyme.

Leo: I made it up on the fly. Do you remember, you and I, probably at the same time, were chanting hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?

John: No, I didn't do that.

Leo: No, because you were probably in the Young Republicans.

John: No, I was a Democrat back then.

Leo: I know, you were in the Free Speech Movement.

John: Well, kind of.

Leo: Mario Savio and you were like this.

John: Well I don't know about that.

Leo: We found out later that Johnson really hated that. It really bothered him.

John: Johnson was a complete screwball.

Leo: No, but at the same time he had heart. He was a big guy with heart. That chant, he specifically referred to that on one of the Johnson tapes that Michael Besheless published. He hated that chant because it really hurt his feelings.

John: Oh, poor guy. Hurt his feelings.

Leo: Tesla's battery grabbed $800 million in its first week. The Powerwall. Now come on, you are excited about this.

John: God no.

Jolie: I could be.

John: She could be. Talk to her.

Jolie: Elon is going to be my next ex-husband.

Leo: I love Elon Musk.

Jolie: Love you darling. So much.

John: You are already too late.

Leo: You already explained that Elon will be your next ex-husband. Elon will be your one after next ex-husband. First you have to get rid of Aaron. Unless you are going to be a bigamist.

Jolie: Well no, honey, I'm going to be a rich widow, remember?

Leo: Oh, he's going to die?

John: I would be careful Aaron. Separate bedrooms would be my advice.

Leo: How's that coffee tasting Aaron?

Jolie: We will take the twin mattresses.

Leo: Is it like bitter almonds? Tesla can get the twins. Do you want the twins? Or do you want the queen? Or the king? They have a California king.

John: Eye on the cutlery. That's my advice.

Leo: I have to apologize to all of you here in studio that thought you would be coming to one of the classic TWiT episodes.

Jolie: So sorry guys.

Leo: And instead. Lucas, I'm sorry.

John: Yeah, I blame him because I would expect him to have other guests besides the 2 of us. I know that Jolie and I just pick on him.

Leo: Well who else? Who did we have Jason? Originally we had planned on somebody, and I said, no, you better not. That poor guy will be like suffering.

John: That's what we had in mind. That would have been fun.

Leo: I don't know. Whoever it was we cancelled and we said, you know, come next week.

John: I want to know who it was.

Jolie: Yeah.

Jason Howell: I'm looking. It's no longer in the dock.

Leo: We took it out. I can't remember. It was somebody good, Steven Kovach or somebody. It was going to be good. Kovach would be good with this crowd, because he could have handled it.

John: Kovach?

Leo: Steven Kovach, business insider?

John: I don't know, maybe.

Jolie: How old is he?

Leo: He's good looking. He's young. He's rich.

John: That doesn't help.

Jolie: No, is he young?

Leo: I don't know. He's fairly young.

John: I don't know about that.

Leo: How old is Reggie?

Jolie: Reg?

John: Who is Reg?

Leo: Reggie Snodgrass. How quickly do you forget?

John: I do forget quite fast.

Jolie: Reg just had his birthday.

John: He did? How old is he?

Jolie: I went to his birthday party.

John: Okay, did you bring Aaron?

Jolie: 39 I think. 39.

Leo: Comcast is hiring 5,500 new customer service employees.

John: Keep an eye on it.

Leo: And, get this, $20 if technicians are late for appointments.

Jolie: That's just ridiculous.

Leo: That's an insult.

Jolie: You know, you stay home all day.

Leo: 4 hours, $20? That's not even minimum wage.

Jolie: That's not even minimum wage. Okay, next story.

Leo: Nokia, as you may know, first sold its mobility division to Microsoft. I don't know how many billions, $6 billion I think. But they are still in business, oddly enough, even though cell phones are what they are known for. They are actually a snow tire company. They make tires.

John: Well the Nokia still in Finland is a different company.

Leo: No, it just doesn't do mobility. They also own Here Maps. Now, the maps division was actually, I think, the crown jewel. Who did they buy? They bought one of the other, what was it, Telenav, they bought one of the other big mapping companies. The Here Maps are absolutely great. You can get them on Android, but they are a Windows Phone thing.

John: There is a place in Berkley, it's one of the map companies that works for Nokia, and I ran into a guy, I hate to admit it, I went there, at Whole Foods. He was parked in the parking lot and he had this crazy truck, or whatever it was, out there. I waited for him to come back and I started discussing the whole thing with him and how Nokia has been doing this for a long time, and they have better technology than Google, and in fact their device looks cooler. It doesn't have so many stupid cameras.

Jolie: Now how did he take this? It sounds a little crazy.

Leo: John always sounds that way. He always sounds like he is pulling your leg.

John: No, it's a fact. I have photos. I do, I have photos of the thing and the guy.

Leo: NAVTEQ? Is that who they bought? They bought NAVTEQ. Oh, you can see, in fact, if you look on the...

John: But they have a slightly different technology to map the areas.

Leo: For the street view?

John: Yeah, the street view.

Leo: Also available on Google and IOS from Apple. I do think that they do a great job. Let's zoom in on our studios here.

Jolie: So when is Uber going to be using them?

Leo: Well this is what is interesting because they are in play. Nokia says we want to sell off the map division too, which is interesting. Microsoft has a several year deal to continue to use those maps. But the story is that Uber apparently has offered as much as $3 billion.

Jolie: Say Uber again.

Leo: Uber.

Jolie: Uber.

Leo: Is that how you say it?

Jolie: I say Uber.

Leo: Uber.

Jolie: Uber.

Leo: Uber.

Jolie: Uber.

Leo: $3 billion.

Jolie: We will do diction later. So the problem with Uber is that...

Leo: What?

John: No, just a little vocal fry while you are at it.

Leo: You know, you guys must talk a lot about vocal fry because the chatroom is always saying vocal fry.

John: We do.

Leo: What is vocal fry?

Jolie: Vocal fry is when you talk like this.

John: She is going to show us.

Jolie: When you talk like a Kardashian and you just get a little fry at the end.

Leo: Just like that. People talk like that.

Jolie: It's the new up talk, you know?

Leo: Up talk?

John: Now, if you have ever heard a person do up talk and fry, wow.

Jolie: Wow, can you?

John: That's it, that's it.

Leo: I'm really good at driving.

Jolie: Gag me with a spoon. Oh, I did it!

Leo: Gag me with a spoon.

Jolie: What are we talking about? I actually want to talk about Uber and mapping.

Leo: Thank you.

John: I had it going. I had it going. I had a shot at it. I could have brought it back to watches. Hail Apple!

Leo: So, we have actually been talking about it. Who should buy Uber? Microsoft would be foolish to let Uber slip through their fingers, right? They only have a couple more years. Not Uber, HERE Maps. If HERE Maps goes away then Microsoft has no map in play. Bing Maps goes away. Apple should buy them, because after all, they have maps but they could use some better stuff.

Jolie: The only reason that you would use Bing Maps is if you have a Windows Phone. I have a Windows Phone and it's the only time that I use Bing Maps.

Leo: I will tell you another reason. HERE Maps lets you download. So I can download all of the maps of the United States on my phone, and I can now do it in offline mode. You can kind of do it in Google Maps.

Jolie: Jesus, it's called an atlas.

Leo: Yeah, I'm going to use the Thompson Guide.

Jolie: I drove coast to coast more times than I can count using an atlas.

Leo: An atlas?

Jolie: An atlas.

John: An atlas my friend.

Leo: What are you doing? The old crank?

John: Atlas.

Jolie: And a compass and the north star.

Leo: Did I show you the compass on my...

Jolie: I don't want to see your stupid watch. Pardon me, that was aggressive.

Leo: We are headed southeast.

John: Hail Apple!

Leo: Some might say we are headed downhill, but we are headed southeast.

John: We are headed downhill. You were right the first time.

Jolie: Do you guys use Uber?

Leo: I do. I used it just the other day.

Jolie: Have you noticed that when you are standing someplace and you don't set the location, you just assume that Uber knows where you are, that they are always waiting for you around the block?

Leo: Yeah.

Jolie: So I think that any technology that they can suck in would make a better user experience. Like a mobile tracking device.

Leo: That's what we were saying yesterday on The New Screen Savers, that, in fact, Uber is highly dependent on the Apple Maps on IOS or the Google Maps on Android. If either one of those should pull the plug then Uber would be out of business. So that's the rationale for Uber buying this. But this is going to be an expensive proposition. You've got some heavy duty people.

Jolie: Well they are making money are they not?

Leo: Uber?

Jolie: Uber.

Leo: Uber is not making money. Uber is worth money. They just went out for another $1.5-$2 billion.

Jolie: Oh, they are still raising? Never mind.

Leo: They are worth $50 billion at that value. That would be their valuation, $50 billion.

Jolie: But they are still working with somebody?

Leo: I asked Kevin yesterday, and he should know because he was at Google Ventures when they put the initial round in. He says he wasn't sure, but he says he thought not. But Uber is great, isn't it? Now when Uber was in the news for being really evil, sexist pigs did you stop using them?

John: Evil, sexist pigs.

Jolie: You know, I had an experience.

John: She has an experience.

Jolie: I had an experience. I was riding along and my Uber driver keeps looking in the rearview mirror, and he's like, oh, I'm so sorry that I'm so distracted.

John: There we go.

Jolie: What kind of music do you like? Where do you like to go? Then he said my girlfriend would get so mad at me if she knew that I said this, but you are really hot. I was like, pull the car over, the lady is getting out.

Leo: Yeah, because that's scary. That's actually scary.

Jolie: Then I got out of the car, and he drove away, and I was like, oh, I'm in the projects in heels. But you know what? I have no problem walking through the projects. I have a problem being in a car with a man who is hitting on me in a really gross way.

Leo: But that's why you are at risk. Because you are in effect trapped in this car.

Jolie: But you know what Uber did? I have him a 1 star rating and I said that the sexual harassment was unwarranted. They called me immediately, and they said we are so sorry, we've taken the steps. Basically they fired the guy. They fired him.

John: Did you get a credit? A money credit?

Jolie: Yes I did.

John: As long as that happens.

Jolie: They were extremely responsive. I think that the things that happened to women in Ubers happen to them in taxicabs, on the street, on the bus.

Leo: I was just going to say that the cab is just as bad.

Jolie: Oh, the bus is way worse.

Leo: At least with Uber you can rate him 1 star.

Jolie: You can report and you can get out if you can.

John: You can't rate all of the creeps on the bus.

Jolie: You can't rate the creeps in the taxis. You don't even know who you are riding with.

Leo: So you are an Uber fan now I would guess.

Jolie: I'm an Uber user. I won't use Lyft, because it's ew people.

Leo: Ew people?

Jolie: You have to fist bump them and stuff.

Leo: Do you? You have to fist bump them?

Jolie: You have to ride in the passenger seat.

Leo: Oh no, no, no. I'm sorry, I want to ride in the back.

Jolie: I'm not about that. I'm a fancy lady.

John: I always ride in the passenger seat.

Leo: Of a cab?

John: Anything.

Leo: Cabbies hate that because they have to move things out of the way.

John: Screw them. I like that I can see where we are going, if they are going to hit something I can duck. If you are in the back seat you are being thrown around. You could get killed back there.

Leo: I think that it is more dangerous in the front passenger seat.

John: No.

Leo: Isn't that like the suicide seat? Isn't that the place that you don't want to be? Do you brace? Do you put your head between your legs and brace?

John: No I don't do that. I'm not that limber.

Leo: I always laugh when they say that on the airplane. I can't get in the brace position. I'm not that limber. Hey, this is something that you might want to vote on in Congress. The next time you are a member of Congress you might want to vote on this. You remember, this has happened many times, that there are companies who will sue you if you put a bad review of the company online, on Yelp or something. They will actually go after you. There are even companies,, that put this in their terms of service. So Cleargear tried to charge a Utah couple over $3,500 over a negative review that they wrote on The company demanded the couple take down the negative review because in their terms of service Cleargear has this, "your acceptance of this sales contract prohibits you from taking any action that negatively impacts". The couple said we are not going to pay $3,500. Cleargear went to credit reporting agencies and tried to damage their credit saying that they owe us $3,500 and they won't pay. The judge later threw this out, but Congress, 4 members of the House of Representatives introduced legislation this week. The bill is the Consumer Review Freedom Act and would render null and void non disparagement clauses like that. This is not the first time that this has happened. Lots of companies have this non disparagement clause. Remember, what was it, the Vermont Hotel or Inn that went after people who said bad things about them on Yelp?

Jolie: Well, I mean there is a case for libel if it meets certain criteria. Fair criticism of a public establishment shouldn't be censored like that.

Leo: No, what was the French, was it a French restaurant or an Italian restaurant who went after the blogger who wrote a bad review? If it's a bad restaurant you have the right to review it poorly. This is, by the way, you will like this John, as a Republican, bipartisan.

John: I'm not a Republican.

Leo: What are you eating?

Jolie: He is a Socialist. Get with it.

Leo: Darrelly Isna of California, one of our...

John: Isna.

Leo: Isna? Thank you. He's a Republican.

John: Yeah.

Leo: Brad Sherman, Democrat from California. Blake Fairhold from Texas. He's a Republican. Eric Swalwell introduced the Fair Consumer Freedom Act. It doesn't have a chance in hell of passing Congress probably, right?

John: Probably not. You are right. I'm reading the terms of service as you speak of Yelp.

Leo: What does it say? But Yelp is where you put the disparagement. They are not going to have a non disparagement clause.

John: They have content guidelines that you have to deal with.

Leo: Libel, according to the lawyers in our chat room, requires 2 elements. It must be, aw crap, I scrolled off. Oh well.

Jolie: Yeah, we will never know.

John: Whatever it was was fascinating. Thank you very much. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.

Leo: It must be with intent to harm and it must be knowlingly false. So you have to have intent and you have to have the knowledge that it is wrong. So if I said, for instance, John C. Dvorak is a Democrat, that would be with intent to harm and knowingly false.

John: That wouldn't bother me. That doesn't harm me.

Jolie: Call him a Republican again. I like that.

Leo: He gets his eyes flashed. Our show today is brought to you by...

John: I was a Republican and I was a Democrat, both.

Leo: Now you are in independent.

John: Yes.

Leo: Because you are bloody mindless. Did you vote for Bush twice?

Jolie: Yeah, he did. I heard it.

John: Where did you hear it?

Jolie: On the internet in the chatroom.

John: On the chatroom never lies.

Leo: How would they even know?

John: I did not.

Leo: Why are you wearing my Apple Watch? Did you steal that?

John: Sleight of hand. Hail Apple!

Leo: How did you get that off my wrist? I wasn't paying attention. You all use Dropbox. Who doesn't? We all know and love Dropbox. But I have to tell you in business there is a better solution. Your employees use Dropbox. In fact, before we did Dropbox for Business I went around and everybody was using their own personal account to share files with other employees. I was using my personal account. Dropbox for Business is a much better solution. First of all everybody on staff starts off with a Terabyte. It's easy to get more information. It works just like the Dropbox that your employees want to use except that there are tools for IT Professionals. You get control, you have remote wipe for instance. If the employee leaves the company they don't leave with your company documents, you can wipe it. It's got intuitive sharing and permission controls. It's got complete audit logs, you know what is happening with the data, and you control that only the right people get access to the company data. It works with 3rd party security administration solutions SIEM, DLPE, and Discovery. I love it. By the way, if you are worried about privacy you will be glad to know that Dropbox for Business uses encryption not only for file data in transit, but also at rest, and segmentation, and hashing. Files are anonymized. There is even single sign on 2 step verification. I use 2 step with my Dropbox. Dropbox for Business, 4 million businesses around the world use Dropbox for Business, and we want you to try it. It's the better way to manage accounts, to manage billing, to have visibility and control over your data. I guarantee you that if you go around your employees are using Dropbox already. Maybe it's time to have a corporate account. Dropbox for Business, it's very affordable and really works. to get a free 14 day trial, We've converted over to it because everybody is using it.

Have you changed that watch to Esperanto yet, or are you still working?

John: I don't know how to do it. This watch is too complicated for anybody.

Leo: It is actually insanely complicated. But don't think of it as a learning curve, think of it as a discovery curve.

John: She wanted to see it a second ago, and then she all the sudden got the willies.

Leo: Are you afraid that you will like it?

John: No, she's not going to like it. Are you kidding me?

Leo: Come on, let's try it. Let her use it.

Jolie: It's ugly.

Leo: You think that is ugly?

Jolie: It's hideous.

Leo: That's the stainless steel with the Milanese Loop. That's a $700 watch!

Jolie: How great. It's $700 worth of dog turd. It's ugly.

John: There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Hail Apple! $700 worth of dog turd.

Leo: It has to fit a little bit tighter. What did you do?

Jolie: What did I do?

Leo: It has to fit a little bit tighter. You have tiny wrists, it almost goes all the way around.

Jolie: It's because I'm a lady.

Leo: It has to fit tightly enough to get a heart rate. Let me unlock it.

Jolie: I got them full digits.

John: Okay, now it is all yours. Push that button on the side to get it to do anything.

Leo: I do not use the Mickey Mouse face. I use the classic face.

John: I think with the Mickey Mouse thing all you have got is a $700 Mickey Mouse watch.

Leo: I know. It's kind of funny.

Jolie: What am I looking at here?

Leo: I know, isn't that wild? Here, put your hand over here so people can see.

Jolie: Are these seriously?

John: Those are all apps.

Leo: This is the worst user interface. Can you see? Do you have the overhead shot?

Jolie: This is garbage!

John: That's fantastic. You can hit the New York Times, and the next thing you know you have the whole story.

Leo: But you are not supposed to do that. What you are supposed to do is tilt the watch to your mouth and say hey Siri.

Jolie: Okay Google.

John: Okay chatroom, what do you think of Jolie? Should she be banned or not banned your answers? Here it comes, banned or not banned.

Jolie: Ban Leo.

Leo: Ban me?

John: Kill Siri. That's not what we are asking. Not banned, we've got a not banned and an Andy Kaufman.

Leo: Do you really think that doesn't look good? Not on you, it's too big for you, but do you think that that does not look good on my wrist?

John: They love you.

Jolie: I should get my own show. That is an awful idea.

Leo: You want your own show?

Jolie: Yeah, I do.

Leo: What would you do on your own show? What would the Jolie Odell Show be?

John: Not banned. It's almost all not banned.

Leo: Why is Aaron laughing?

Jolie: Because he gets the Jolie Odell Show every day. He would be happy to pass it on.

Leo: He gets the Jolie Odell Show!

John: Okay.

Jolie: Jolie should be banned more often. I am enjoying her being banned.

John: See, look at this. Not banned. So it says Leo does whatever the chatroom says. That means that she can come back.

Leo: I said that I don't do whatever the chatroom says.

John: We all know that is not true.

Leo: So what would the Jolie Odell Show be? If you could do, think it's a weekly show, audio and video, could be on television, could be on the internet, what would you do?

Jolie: I would probably like to talk about moral issues around technology. Like privacy, maintaining your personhood, the name change issue, and fun cultural stuff. Culture and morality around technology. Because we are still human after all. We aren't just a bunch of watches.

Leo: Right.

Jolie: Except for you.

John: Hail Apple!

Jolie: Hail Apple.

Leo: Are you wearing colored contact lenses?

Jolie: I am.

Leo: Or is that your actual eye pupil.

Jolie: No, I'm wearing colored contacts

Leo: That's interesting.

Jolie: They are huge. They are 50 mm Korean circle lenses.

Leo: So they make your eyes like bigger?

Jolie: See, I want to look like a robot, not be a robot.

Leo: I just noticed that.

John: There is a lot of flirting going on here.

Leo: I'm not flirting, I'm just fascinated.

John: Let me look into those giant eyeballs.

Leo: Are you jealous?

John: I just noticed it.

Leo: So they are slightly bigger, not so big that you would notice, but that you would have a good feeling.

Jolie: They are a little Candy Valley.

Leo: It is a little bit.

Jolie: If I put them together with fake eyelashes and contrary my husband is like I can't look at you, this is disturbing. Go wash your face. He actually said that.

Leo: So this is the Jolie O'Dell show.

John: That will not get rid of the eyeballs.

Leo: Go wash your face. You don't say that Aaron.

Jolie: He does.

Leo: Really?

Jolie: He does. Here is the thing. He loves me when I wake up in the morning with no makeup.

Leo: That's what you want.

Jolie: I would cry, but I'd ruin my makeup.

Leo: That's what you want. You want a guy who loves you when you wake up in the morning.

Jolie: Yeah, you do, because if he loves you he will bring you coffee and you don't have to get up and get it yourself.

Leo: You know who I brought coffee to this morning?

Jolie: Who?

Leo: To my lovely wife because it's Mother's Day. Actually, what I did was I made a cup of coffee, I gave it to her son, and I said Michael, bring your mother a cup of coffee, and kiss her, and say you love her.

Jolie: Aw.

Leo: Aw. He just snuck in the room, he was afraid of waking her up, put the coffee down, and ran out. She said I heard him leaving. I hope that you have wished your mom a happy Mother's Day. Mom, I love you. Happy Mother's Day. John's mother is dead, so.

John: No thanks to you.

Leo: I'm sure that you are thinking of her right now.

John: Yeah.

Leo: And, of course, Mimi, who is the mother of your children.

John: And also, you have your mother, who is actually a bigger fan of me then she is of you.

Leo: She is. Mom, she says, that Dvorak boy, he's so cute, he's cute as a button. So happy Mother's Day to Mimi. Are you doing anything?

John: Yeah.

Leo: Happy Mother's Day to whoever you wish to wish a happy Mother's Day to Jolie.

Jolie: Happy Mother's Day aunt Ivy. You have been the best mother that a girl could want.

Leo: Oh, aunt Ivy, I love her.

Jolie: I love her so much. I would kill a grizzly bear for that woman. With my bare damn hands.

Leo: I want to thank you all for joining us. We do this show every Sunday afternoon at 3pm Pacific, 6 pm Eastern Time, 2200 UTC. If you want to watch live do because believe it or not the show that you are listening to now that is only about 15 minutes long is really 2 hours in the making. We cut all of the good stuff out. Watching live you get all of the good stuff. If you can't watch live, though, the on demand version is always available after the fact at our website at The new website is coming probably early June.

John: What's wrong with the old website?

Leo: Have you seen it?

John: I look at it once in a while.

Leo: It's terrible.

Jolie: It needs more interstitials if you ask me.

John: More ads.

Leo: We don't do that thank god. No takeovers on our website. But, at, that's where this show is. You can also get it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe to podcasts. Nowadays, I was looking at our stats, and far more people watch the show on podcatchers on their mobile devices. Including, of course, the TWiT apps, which we don't write. Our community created them. Thank you guys, you did a great job. So make sure that you find a mobile app, or a podcast app, or whatever, and subscribe to the show. Very important, 2 days remain to get our TWiT 10th Anniversary T-Shirt. These are really great. We have them for men and women in all sizes. But, as with all of our T-Shirt sales, we are never going to sell these again. That's limited edition, so when it runs out in 2 days that's your last chance. So go to TeeSpring,, and pick up as many as you can because you are going to want to have that. That's the front with the 10, and the back has got the cute banner. Anthony Neilson designed that. Nice job. It's Anthony's, right? I think Anthony did it. We had a great week. If you missed any of it take a look at the week gone by.

(Video Plays): Previously on TWiT. Steve. Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh. What is that? Triangulation. Neil Young is our guest. We are talking about music. You either have 100% of the master or 5% of the master. Do the math. One is going to sound a lot better than the other. I want to hear the sound, the echo, the ambience of a recording. That is what we made, you know? Why not let people hear it? Hey, thanks for having me back. This has just been one of those times. The New Screen Savers. So you are a watch expert now? How did you get into watches? Well, I will tell you about that right now. This is my favorite watch. Is it your dad's? This is my dad's watch. Senior Editory at Business Insider, welcome Steve. I'm so sorry Steve. All About Android. Google+ is rolling out collections. So this allows people to group their posts by topic. Now I have a collection all about pie. You are curating yourself. When I follow Jason can I say just show me the pie, or I just want the pie? Yes. I understand the music, I understand the kids, I'm just here for the pie. Exactly. TWiT, now with half the calories. Anyone who watches Windows Weekly knows that Mary Jo Foley has to drink anytime we say Hadoop, so Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop. Mary Jo, that's for you.

Leo: That sounds like the seagulls in mine, mine, mine. Hadoop, Hadoop, Hadoop. Do we have a week ahead? No week ahead. It's over, time has stopped now. There will be no week ahead. Actually, there will be, but there is nothing of note.

Jolie: Is it the rapture? Is that happening now?

Leo: So if this were the rapture would you be in this chair or would you be in the sky?

Jolie: I would be up in heaven with my Lord Jesus Christ and he would be like dude, what have you been doing down there? Come on. Pull it together.

Leo: He is a forgiving god.

Jolie: And he would be like, get in here, come on.

Leo: I'm going to be stuck right here. I ain't going nowhere. But that's okay, because the population will be cut in half, pollution will be solved, I will be able to bicycle down the street, it's going to be great.

John: Yeah, the CPM will change, though.

Jolie: You can go loot the grocery store, the Whole Foods.

Leo: Yeah, it's great.

Jolie: Yeah.

Leo: Maybe we can use churches as roller rinks or something like that.

Jolie: Oh lord forgive him. He knows not what he says.

Leo: I don't know what I say.

Jolie: I don't know what you say.

Leo: At this point I'm completely drunk and I have had not a drop.

John: You know.

Leo: No, it's going to be a good week I'm sure.

John: Something about me, you wanted me to plug the No Agenda Show.

Leo: You are going to be on The New Screen Savers soon. In a couple of weeks I think that you are going to cohost with me.

John: I may have to push that to June.

Leo: You are killing me. You are not going to do it, are you? You are just going to keep pushing it off.

John: That's not the way that I operate.

Leo: We do want you to do that.

John: I watch the show.

Leo: You know what? You would probably be pretty good on that show too.

Jolie: What show?

Leo: It's like a variety show.

John: From what I can tell is that it's TWiT standing up.

Leo: That's a good description.

Jolie: Oh, I can't stand up. Have you seen the shoes?

John: You can wear flats.

Leo: Oh my god those are hot.

Jolie: I could wear flats.

John: You could wear flats. You don't need to wear those stilettos.

Jolie: But I like them. They are fun.

John: Then you should wear stilettos.

Jolie: You should try them. They would make your butt look great.

John: I don't know about that. I'd fall over. Will you quit looking?

Leo: He looks good. He looks good in Mao jackets. I want to get them out.

John: From now on I'm coming in with the Mao suit.

Leo: John C. Jung.



John: Twice weekly.

Jolie: And stay tuned to

Leo: Something big is happening.

Jolie: Something big is happening May 19th.

Leo: And Jolie is going to be right smack in the middle.

Jolie: May 19th.

John: You are going to be doing video. You are going to be doing podcasting.

Leo: Right in the middle. It's going to be called The new New Screen Savers.

Jolie: It's going to be bigger than that.

John: How can it be bigger than a podcast? Nothing is bigger than a podcast?

Jolie: I forgot where I am. Excuse me.

John: Podcast is the biggest thing going.

Leo: This is not a podcast.

John: No, it's a netcast.

Leo: Thanks for joining us everybody! Help me.

John: It's a netcast.

Leo: Another TWiT is in the can.

All Transcripts posts