This Week in Tech 451 (Transcript)

It’s time for Twit, This Week in Tech. John C Dvorak is here, Tim Stevens is here, and Jolie O’Dell is back on the Internet. We’ve got lots to talk about. Facebook, they just bought Oculus Rift, the virtual reality company. Microsoft releases, finally, Office for the iPad. And Mike Elgin says Apple should buy Yahoo. Really? It's next on Twit.

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This is Twit, This Week In Tech, Episode 451, recorded Sunday, March 30, 2014

Gibson is Nuts

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Leo Laporte: It’s time for Twit, This Week in Tech! The show where we talk about the weeks Tech news. Every week I love the chance to get together with the smartest, the best journalists in the business. That this is an unusually good panel today. I’m really glad you tuned in for it. We’re going to start all the way to my right John C Dvorak is here, wearing his division t-shirt.

John C Dvorak:  I want to remind people that it was Central Missouri who won the Division II basketball championship. This is real basketball that isn’t corrupted by the big universities. If the Central Missouri Mules are here, I’d invite anyone who happens to be from that school to send me a sweat shirt.

Leo: Okay. Do you have a bracket that you follow? Do you follow March Madness or is that corrupt stuff?

John: The corrupt stuff is just the… there was a thing on Real Sports, with Brian Gumble and they just went right after North Carolina and everybody else with total corruption. It should be professional sports. But they are not.

Leo: They are not student athletes. They are scholar athletes.

John: They get degrees in General Studies. They are ripping off these kids. It is sad.

Leo: That is what I feel bad about.

John: The kids think they are going to go to a school and get a degree and they end up with nothing.

Leo: And the MBA contracts making 50 million a year.

John: And the students are making nothing.

Leo: Sad.

John: You should go watch Division II stuff, there is no corruption.

Leo: Thank you very much. John has now used his entire quota for the show!

John: The no agenda show!!

Leo: Yeah, yeah. Sitting to his left, Mr. Tim Stevens. So good to have you, former Editor in Chief editing Gadget, he is now at CNet. And you’re here for the Build conference. We got you out, and your lovely wife. Yes, from the bitterly cold upstate New York.

Tim Stevens: It was 15 degrees when I flew out on Thursday, but it’s a little bit nicer now. I mean it was raining here yesterday and everyone was complaining, but I was like, “This isn’t so bad”.

John: It was freezing yesterday. I’m surprised that you could stand it.

Leo: Freezing here?

John: It was cold.

Leo: Chilly. And look who is here. I thought she gave up the Internet. That is why we didn’t invite Jolie O’Dell to be on the show and then there was a Twitter stream going back and forth and you even said, “Yeah, I’ll be on the show” so we immediately called you. Welcome back, from Venture Beat Jolie O’Dell. You said you are in management now?

Jolie O’Dell: I’m the Managing Editor.

Leo: Wow.

Jolie: Yeah.

Leo: Congratulations, that is wonderful.

Jolie: It is wonderful. We have such a talented group of writers and I’m honored to support them.

Leo: I went to your website a few months ago and it said, “I’ve given up the internet” and I thought well I guess we can’t…. because, by the way I hope I’m not telling you something you don’t know but this is on the Internet. The show here.

Jolie: Yes, I know.

Leo: Would you have done the interview when you had given up the Internet?

Jolie: Absolutely. Anything for you.

Leo: Okay.

Jolie: If I have the opportunity to run my mouth, I’m going to take it.

John: Is this show on every week?

Leo: Twice weekly now.

John: Are you going to invite me to the other one?

Leo: Never. I do that one in my jammies at home. We don’t put that one on the internet. It is just me with my cigarette. Pontificating. So, did you give up the internet…. I have this paranoid imagination and it just runs wild. I don’t know if other people do this. Oh, I know they do it because I’ve been watching CNN all week, but given just a little bit of information I will conflate a giant story around it. The story I told myself was “Poor Jolie. She was probably harassed off the Internet”.

Jolie: Oh no. The trolls couldn’t keep me off the Internet. I don’t care about them. They don’t pay me.

Leo: If you’re a young attractive woman on the internet… it’s bad enough for me, an old geezer.

Jolie: If you are an attractive woman in the world you get bothered and you can choose to retaliate, ignore or laugh it off, or get hurt.

Leo: What do you do?

Jolie: Well I used to get hurt and now I just, I can’t care.

Leo: You just let it go.

Jolie: I don’t see it anymore. The reason I got off the internet was because of legitimate privacy and security concerns. I think in the wake of certain Snowden related things, everybody has been a little bit antsy about it and I just got a little…. I’m like, “Well I have to put my money where my mouth is and if I say I’m concerned I should…”

Leo: Was it the Snowden revelations last June that prompted this?

Jolie: Yes.

Leo: Interesting.

Jolie: Yes, and talking to the companies that were implicated in those kinds of things. A lot, oh goodness, well you probably know what I”m talking about too.

Leo: Because John is constantly harassed.

Tim: Absolutely, I am as well.

Leo: Who were you looking at?

Jolie: Everybody on that side of the table. You’re an Internet happy little person.

Leo: I get harassed all the time.

John: Leo gets more harassed than I do.

Leo: And it is horrible and it’s because I’m so good-looking and I understnad that and so I just embrace it. I say, “They hate me because they love me”.

Jolie: Like Rihanna.

Leo: I’m very much like Rihanna. In fact I think Chris Brown beat me up.

Jolie: Whooo.

Leo: I could be wrong. I got a text from my son this morning, he is flying back to college and he said, “I can’t go back I broke my collarbone”.

John: He did? How did he do that?

Leo: I said “What? Get to the hospital and get an x-ray”. And he did, he said, “Oh good news it is just a bad sprain”.

John: How do you sprain your collarbone?

Leo: That is what I asked him, especially at 8 in the morning. He said, “I was throwing…”

John: Oops. Sorry.

Leo: What did you do?

John: I made a mistake.

Leo: Did you change this too…. oh my gosh, it’s Korean.

John: Yeah.

Leo: You changed it to Korean.

Tim: Anybody in the room speak Korean?

Leo: I don’t even know what it is doing but it is doing it in Korean.  I now know how to say Twitter in Korean. What is that? Oh, man John. I can’t believe you did that.

John: It was an accident.

Leo: I think it is Japanese.

John: If it has a lot of O’s it is Korean. You know that with the Korean language the symbols on there are how you are supposed to form your mouth to say the word. Because the Japanese destroyed their language the Korean’s had to reinvent their language. It is based on, they already could talk it but their written language was gone so they wrote this crazy language that actually defines the way you move your mouth to say the word.

Leo: That is fascinating.  But Korean is not an Asian…

John: That why there is so many round ones, you open your mouth like this…

Jolie: It must be much easier to learn to read as a Korean child if you just…

Leo: Twitter in Korean is much more compelling. I can’t read that at all.

John: It is really weird to me that you can’t lock that to keep some idiot from doing that.

Leo: Some idiot????

John: It surprises me.

Tim: Let’s see if Leo can adjust the brightness in Korean.

Leo: Oh man. Anyway, so I said, “Henry, how did you bust your collar bone”? and he said, “I was throwing somebody out of the house and then he tackled me”. So I don’t know what has been going on at the house while I’ve been gone. But anyway, I’m here now. I don’t know. Don’t ask me. He’s 18.

John: Oh, okay then. He can leave.

Leo: Did you have this kind of problems with your kids?

John: No, my kids were just fantastic.

Leo: Yeah. I told him not to tell his mother. Our show today. Let’s talk about Tech News. What do you say?

John: Is there any Tech News this week?

Leo: It seems to me there is, I could be wrong. Didn’t Edward Snowden reveal that the NSA has been spying on 22 world leaders? Even as we speak?

Jolie: Is that new?

John: Is that Tech News or is that just politics?

Leo: Do you think Edward Snowden should reveal that stuff? Shouldn’t he be revealing the stuff that affects us in violation of the 4th Amendment. Other than just the spy activities in other countries?

John: He gave the information to the Guardian and Greenwald and they are picking and choosing what to write about. Snowden isn’t doing anything, he’s sitting around hanging out with Russian Hookers. That’s what I’d do if I was stuck in Russia.

Leo: I know what the big story was this week. Facebook bought Oculus VR.

John: Yeah, and wasn’t that a publicly financed company? One of those…

Leo: Kickstarter.

John: Kickstarter. And now these guys get billions and the Kickstarter people get nothing?

Leo: Knotch, the guy who created Mind Craft had put down $10,000 as part of the Kickstarter

Jolie: But that wasn’t an Equity Investment.

Leo: He went down and visited the Oculus folks and only last week decided to do a Mind Craft Virtual Reality version. As soon as the acquisition happened he said, “I love these guys. I think it is a great product but I don’t want to do this for FaceBook so that’s it. We’re killing the project”.

Tim:  he said Facebook freaks me out and I don’t want to have anything to do with it. He was only the first but there were quite a few other smaller ones that followed suit and said the same sort of thing.

Leo: Well if you just go to the Kickstarter product page and see all of the comments….

Tim: Yeah I think it’s a little bit premature to be really pulling the trigger on that kind of thing. I mean nobody knows exactly what Facebook is going to do with Oculus. Certainly it changes the tone of the conversation about Oculus being this really interesting gaming thing.

Leo: It’s not gaming anymore.

Tim: It could be gaming, but it could be a very different sort of gaming. I mean gaming is one of those popular things to do on Facebook, Farmville and all those great titles. And people didn't really want that sort of experience on oculus, they wanted more of a hard-core gaming experience. It is primarily the hard-core gamers and those who invested in this product, the finally would bring gravy home. The question is is this experience going to be as good as it was?

Leo: I kicked in 300 bucks and I got my developer kit, it’s still under my desk where I never used it. Well I feel like that is what I paid for, that is what I got. And you're right, Kickstarter is a great thing and it tells everybody again and again you’re not an Equity Investor.

Jolie: I’m baffled by everybody thinking that this has anything to do with gaming whatsoever.

Leo: The rift?

Jolie: The acquisition. The deal.

Leo: Well I don’t know what has to do with, Mark Zuckerberg said…

 Jolie: I tell you. I will

Leo: Oh good. Well let me tell you what Mark Zuckerberg said in you tell me if he’s lying. What Zuckerberg said is… okay one going to project onto it. The current thing is mobile, then comes wearables. I think they almost missed mobile they relate to the table they fortunately were able to save it. And they came back strong with mobile. He said that he believes virtual reality is the next big platform. When you say that that is a big word in the game. But he he’s being paranoid, he doesn’t want to miss out. He’s got the cash. They are buying best of class companies. Instagram what’s that and now oculus.

Jolie:  It’s funny they’re making two big bets at opposite ends of the spectrum. One is very very low end where it is just messaging, it has a global focus that anybody can use. Then you are looking very far forward in places where quality of life is already really really high. It’s not about wearing some bizarre scuba mask looking thing on your face it’s about overlaying Facebook on every thing. And I think that won’t have anything to do with hardware and it won’t have anything to do with gaming.

Leo: But why would they want Oculus VR?

Jolie: Because…

John: They want Facebook in 3-D?

Jolie: Google glass is one way of projecting…

Leo: I think Mark is worried about Google Glass.

Jolie: I don’t think so at all. It was horrible experience. I think he wants to get to the next level of experience. And it comes without a face mask he just has to figure out how to get there. And why people are so intrigued by the experience of Oculus VR.

John: Are they really intrigued? Horrible thing with big goggly eyes.

Leo:  I think Jolie is right, were not talking about that thing. That is just a very early prototype. My generation, and I think a lot of people, we grew up with two books, Neuromancer by William Gibson and Neil Stephenson’s Snow Crash and I think Zuckerberg was a Snow Crash fanatic, read the book in 1992 when that came out and I think that has driven a lot of this. We want, do we not, want a world where we can interact? Not just gaming. But wouldn’t this be great for Facebook, not just looking at it on a screen but I’m in it?

John: No!

Jolie: John and I want our cabin in the woods and wear tinfoil hats thank you very much.

Tim: I want to go too.

John: Tim already has the tinfoil hat.

Tim: It is a curious acquisition know because with Instagram they bought a lot of users, a lot of users. Here they bought no users. And a very simple technology. Abrash has done amazing stuff to make this hardware as simple as it is and we’ve seen places where you can navigate very quickly with something…

 Jolie:  I do think they bought a foothold in the future.

Leo: So you’re saying that they bought both red and black, for an analogy that John will understand. By buying…

Jolie: No, one is an investment in the present, and their next billion users. And the other is an investment in the future. God forbid.

Tim: Is Oculus even in the future, really? I don’t see how Oculus is that far in the future compared to other technologies. They don’t have a great user base, they don’t have a lot of developers, I mean they do have developers, but not…

Jolie: The idea is Facebook overlaying everything you do is the future.

Leo: They do have developers; can they keep those developers?

Tim: They’ve turned off those developers so they’ve lost half the reason for making the acquisition in the first place.

Jolie: F8 is coming up awfully soon, I guess we’ll find out. They always have goodies to keep developers interested.

John: Here’s my prediction: poor acquisition, fail. Two years from now it’ll be given up on the way Microsoft does with every other thing they do.

Leo: I disagree. I think Oculus…

Jolie: It won’t be the form factor we know but technology will be used.

John: The whole thing.

Leo: I think VR is going to happen. I think is very early days, just as it is with Google Glass. Neither is very satisfactory. I threw up almost immediately with Oculus VR.

Jolie: Bless your heart.

John: It turns out according to Dana Boyd that means I’m a girl but we’ll talk about that in a second.

John: That’s bull crap!

 Leo: No, she’s got a biological proof, but I'll talk about that the second.

John: Did she take into account your vision issues?

Leo: No she doesn’t know me. I think that the really smart thing that Oculus could do at this point is say to developers, quote Look, were only going to go so far with the money we got. A couple million we got on kick starter, the 75 million we got for virtual capital, with Facebook we have a long runway to give away VR gear. This is Mark Zuckerberg saying I want to see this, because I believe VR is going to be at platform. I’m hoping that is true because it’s going to take that kind of money over a long time, maybe 10 or 20 years for this to become a reality.

John: I wouldn’t push it out that far.

Leo: I want this in the nursing home, I want to be lying in bed with the same plug dance hall be in Paris and I’ll be happy. That’s what I want.

John: You know that’s sick.

Leo: No it’s not.

Jolie: Oh my God. I will come pull your plug for you.

Leo: And I won't be able to do a thing. I'll be in Paris, and some girl will come up and pull my plug. So Dana Boyd wrote an interesting article on Quartz saying that the Oculus Rift is sexist. Now, I have to say it made me nauseous.

Tim: That is poor terminology, I don’t think it’s sexist.

Leo:  What she did point out is there is a gender difference in how people receive simulated 3-D environments. She talks about there are two different ways all of us work. There is one that we can perceive 3-D by shading and that is because we do micro adjustments of our eyes all the time and we can perceive the three dimensions by the parallax. The other kind of depth perception is motion parallax. So that if I have this coffee mug and it comes towards me it is getting better and my brain realizes it is unlikely the coffee mug is actually swelling, so it says oh it's getting closer. That one is with depth perception the other is with shading. It turns out that the are as we've seen it so far works very well with this kind of motion parallax, depth perception. It doesn’t do the shading very well. It turns out that women 10 to use this shading perception. What she is saying is that she has observed, and it’s been observed before, that women 10 to get more nauseated by these virtual reality things.

Jolie: She has observed?

Leo: There needs to be more research.

Jolie: This is silly. Okay, is she talking to male gamers who are used to doing all kinds of first-person shooter crazy? Because that makes me nauseous. Not because it scares me but because it’s always moving. If she was talking to groups of men who play first-person shooters and women…

Leo: Gender clinic in Utrech in the Netherlands where people were having transgender surgery and they were getting the initial hormones. And they noted the change and how adept procession worked as the hormones started to kick can.

Jolie: Now that’s a much more interesting that she observed.

Leo: That through the evidence comes from.

Jolie: While I can stop pooh-poohing it then. I'm very happy.

Leo: And furthermore it turns out that besides the genitalia the number two site for sex hormones is the retinas.

John: The rat knows?

Leo: The retinas John. Anyway I admit it’s not scientific proof but I think it is an interesting point. Anyway I did get sick. Motions sickness comes from a disconnect between what you’re perceiving and what your inner ear is perceiving. It is seasick that way too. I had somebody call me who was up high lead, he works in Air Force simulation. And he said a cold wet cloth in the back of the neck fixes it every time.

John: That’s interesting. Could be possible. But here’s the way I’m seeing this thing. This is never going to fly. It is a bad investment, the only real long-term use for this sort of thing is going to be for engineering. People that need to formulate a race car, see the model in 3-D and be able to walk around it and all the rest of it. What's going to take over the gaming and the rest of this is the freestanding technology that projects 3-D without glasses or any aid.

Tim: We’re a long way from that being cheap and being good, whereas Oculus is cheap and good.

John: It’s not good.

Tim: It’s a lot better than any sort of projections.

John: None of them are very good. But they work.

Jolie: It would be so much to easier if we all had constantly running smoke machines in our houses.

John: How about that for an idea? How about if we just live in the real 3-D world. Then we don’t have to worry about anything else. The shading is perfect.

Leo: In the long run it’s not going to be a helmet. It's got to be a way to plug into your sensorium directly so that all five senses are involved. It’s got a be taste, smell, touch and eyes. When you get all of that it will be realistic and I predict it will not be in my lifetime or yours John, it might be in Tim’s and it will definitely be in Jolie’s.

Jolie: Oh great.

John: Now Jolie is against it.

Jolie: I am. When you look at, let’s talk about science fiction. And all their dystopian versions of the future you are too plugged in, you are too connected, everything computing related is right in front of you, touchable. In the last to topi and versions of that you have access to computing when you want it but it doesn’t take over your life. You are still human.

Leo: People do want to disconnect. Although I’ve got to tell you, do you not notice that everybody, everybody is constantly looking at their smart phone? All the time? Not you Jolie, you’re just a weirdo. You know that!

Jolie: I am a weirdo. That’s why you have me on the show!

Leo: You’re an outlaw. You know that.

Jolie: I am an outlaw and I do know that.

Leo: But I have to say that you walk down the street and everybody is living in this…

Jolie: “I have to go people” and I say, “Heads up sweetheart”….

John: I go to the cell phone to my cues because I have people texting me what I have to talk about. One guys is Leo Laporte. I used to work with him the early 90’s. And as somebody mentioned in my stream here, they still haven’t got speech recognition to work.

Leo: I acknowledge this. Or handwriting. There are a lot of things the human brain can do that computers are terrible at and I’m sure this is one of them. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work on it. Don’t you think?

John: Well I don’t know that we should. I think it has some evil behind it. I’m not convinced of any of this.

Leo: This is why people don’t trust Facebook. They don’t trust Mark. But if somebody with the money of Mark Zuckerberg is willing to plunge some real money into it… not 2 billions but tens of billion.

John: Okay. Then I would be interested to see what comes of it.

Jolie: Yeah.

John: So I can condemn it later!

Leo: Thing of it as fuel for columns. Just think of it that way.

Tim: Lots of fuel.

Jolie: It wouldn’t be so disturbing if Facebook’s business model wasn’t advertising and selling people?

Leo: What is wrong with that?

John: And you’re talking to Leo who is a Advertising, selling people kind of guy.

Jolie: You know what? I think capitalism is beautiful and I think Ad supported media is here to stay.

John: And he’s part of that too.

Leo: You know I’m the only one here, I will say right now that the kinds of ads that we sell are not in fact…

John: Here we go again.

Leo: …. they are not coordinated to the audience, we don’t do research or any of that. However, I have no problem with Google or Facebook trying to give me ads of stuff I’m interested in.

John: Really?

Leo: I would much rather see ads…

John: Wait a minute, let me ask you this question. You have no problems going on Amazon and buying that mug that you are holding and then getting relentless ads to buy the mug long after you’re already done with the mug.

Leo: But that’s because it is poorly done.

John: Very poorly done and these are the experts.

Leo: No.

Jolie: However it is done, it is just intended to part a fool from his money and you’re not a fool but there a lot of gullible people out there and it is evil.

Leo: Advertisers would prefer to spend money on people who are more likely to buy their product as opposed…. You’re thinking of the kind of advertising that I don’t like. The advertising done to try to trick people. To separate a fool from his money.

Jolie: That’s all advertising.

Leo: That isn’t all advertising. Because we do buy stuff. And what I would like to see and I think we do it here and I think it is the coming trend. Advertising that says, “Here is what we do. Here is the value. If you would like it, this is where you get it”.

Jolie: I worked at ad agencies and it is all trickery and all biased.

Leo: That is old school. Edgar Benais. Old way of PR and I so believe we are in a new era because of the internet connected the consumer; they are smart.

John: You’re going crazy today.

Leo: I’ve decided that I’ve have been suppressed by people like you and people like you who have been putting a lid on me and I’ve decided I’m going to come out full force.

John: What have I ever said?

Leo: You’re trying right now. Coming out full force in favor of the notion that I use a free service like Google, Facebook; they are fantastically useful, they need to monetize that and they do it with advertising. I would prefer they do it with advertising something I’m interested in.

Jolie: I would prefer they just take my money.

Tim: I totally agree with that. However, what about Google and Facebook working together and sharing that information that they have about you?

John: With the government.

Tim: With each other and selling that information about you.

Jolie: Because they will pay advertisers, which they do.

Tim: It’s one thing for the them to create a profile and for an advertiser to be able to target ads against somebody like you but it’s okay for Facebook to sell your information to another group and then build a bigger profile?

Leo: To what end?

Tim: To whatever end.

Leo: For better ads.

Tim: For example if Facebook sold their facial data based recognition to Target and when you walked into Target they took a picture of you and knew who you were and were able to track you wherever you went in the store. Is that is okay?

Leo: Yeah. As long as the purpose of it is, and I think it is for these companies, to target me with more appropriate ads. So don’t show me diaper ads because I don’t have infants, I don’t want to see diaper ads. It’s a waste of my time. To show me ads for adult diapers because I’m in my 50’s.

John: Hey Leo.

Leo: I’m actually being very serious here. I don’t think that is a detriment. I don’t care if they do that. But John always brings up this, I think it’s a red herring, what about insurance companies and the government. I agree that is a problem.

John: Yeah, now that insurance gets the data saying, “Leo, you’re not paying enough for your life insurance because you’re drinking a lot of beer. Oh, look at these donuts you bought”.

Leo: I agree with you. And I will fight that.

Jolie: I don’t think that those entities you have to worry about. At this point I think it is more likely that a hacker is going to to expose that data.

John: There is that too. Hacker.

Jolie: It happens all the time.

John: And what are you going to tell people. Well, Leo leaves his house every single day at 3:00 and…

Leo: You would be living in a very scared paranoid state to really worry about that.

Jolie: They show fingerprint recognition for identification purposes if it is being used at your bank or its using for online purchasing.

Leo: What is wrong with that?

Jolie: Because if someone hacks it then you lose all you money and your identity.

Leo: That will not happen because the commercial interests in this capitalist country want all this stuff because it helps them make better money. They are going to make sure, just as they do right with an ATM.

Jolie: Like Target?

Leo: No one lost any money from Target. You know who lost money? Target and the other credit card companies who had to reissue cards. Not one penny was lost by consumers.

Jolie: This time.

Leo: Ever. Because they will continue to indemnify you because they want to do business.

John:  Somebody was losing money on this deal because all the credit card companies do the exact same thing. They say screw it and let people steal the cards, we don’t care. We’re just going to charge you 26% interest on your card and that will make up for all our losses.

Leo: Well that is your choice. You don’t have to have a credit card.

John: And I don’t have a credit card for that reason.

Leo: Okay, well nobody made you do it.  It’s because of those damn cupcakes.

Jolie: I did use the brown acid this time.

Leo: Let’s take a break. I told you not to….

Leo: I just decided that I’ve been letting this go for a long time, this kind of notion that “Oh they are collecting information”. I’m not sure that it is a detriment.

Tim: When it changes from advertising to something else and data brokers are selling your information and then when the government starts to use that information….

Leo: It has to go that far before it is a problem.

Tim: I agree we shouldn’t be restricting that stuff because of the fear of hacking. We should simply be building more secure systems.

Leo: And we get a lot of great stuff for free now. I wish that Google and I guess they do with Google Apps, I wish there was a paid Facebook so that you, Jolie, could use it. I don’t think it would make any difference. I think they would still try…

Jolie: This is why I quit the internet. Because I believe in my personhood and my freedom so much that I don’t want to be a commodity bought and traded based on the data that they generate. That is a very emotional.

Leo: But you have a choice to do that right?

Jolie: Oh no. It was wonderful. I got to see people in person.

Leo: I personally really appreciate the benefits I get from the Internet. And I get a lot of great free stuff, including by the way, this programming.

Jolie: Maybe as a journalist I don’t get free stuff.

Leo: You do.  You get Facebook, Google…

Jolie: Oh, I thought you meant actual stuff.

Leo: Google is hellaciously useful, I get a new phone, I login to my Google account. It has all my contact. It is hellaciously useful. I did have to trade personal information for that but who can deny that that is really a value?

John: Wow!

Leo: And all I ask is that they be up front. We’re going to give you this. That is where Facebook is a little sleazy. Google I think is very straight forward. We are going to take this information, we’re going to use it to target ads. They are constantly telling you what they are doing.

Tim: Facebook doesn’t make it clear. As with their facial recognition, in order to opt out of that there are a lot of clicks and they don’t say what it is exactly. They say it is face tagging. That is a little disconcerting.

John: I want to remind the listeners and Chat Room out there can you imagine what this show would be like without Jolie and me here to balance these two?

Leo: Why do you think you are here? You think I invite you just because I like your looks?

Jolie: Yes, my looks and my cupcakes.

John: I do like your cupcakes.

Jolie: Why Leo, what’s that?

Leo: It’s something that came in the mail the other day. and I think it is a new sponsor, shall we open it John?

John: I believe it is probably just a bunch of peanuts. The Styrofoam ones.

Leo: It’s my Harry’s. My Harry’s came. I’m very excited.

John: Harry’s? Harry and David? Are you getting a beef salami?

Leo: No, you know the guy that stared Warby Parker; Jeff. I like Jeff because he is a rebel. He was mad at the monopoly in eye wear that was costing people too much money. He decided to start… Harry’s was founded less than a year ago by a couple of guys, Andy and Jeff.

John: You might want to use the blade to cut through the thing there.

Leo: Don’t you enjoy it when the tape just gives? Like you struggle and struggle and then it just goes, alright you’re the master. That’s what I’m going for here.

Jolie: You’ve got deep issues.

Leo: I know it is so true. No peanuts, nice paper packing, this is my Harry’s.

Jolie: What a beautiful box.

Leo: This is nice. It’s a great shaving experience. Half the price of other razor blades, but they are not giving up that quality feel. Look at this.

Jolie: It looks so lux. Is that a little snappy thingie. Look at that. Look at this. It is so heavy. This is thoughtfully packaged.

John: She’s going to have to buy this for her husband now.

Leo: Erin would love this. Anybody with a guy in their life would love this. It is gorgeous, simple product design. High quality design. Where is the best knives John? Where do they come from?

John: The best knives come from Japan.

Tim: Germany.

Leo: Germany. Everybody knows that.

Tim: Play along, John.

Jolie: How many blades is that?

Leo: This one is a five blader. They are made and engineered in their factory in Germany for sharpness and strength. Did you know there is a single blade on the inside here? It is for the nose.

Tim: Dangerous.

Leo: So it’s really six. If you’re counting. Is that not beautiful? And what you also get with that is the lovely Harry’s shaving cream. I’m a fan of this instead of the shave gel.

John: Let me try a little of that.

Jolie: I feel like we should bring you a hot towel. Not sniffing your finger.

Leo: Go and order the engraved Winston set. Do you smell that? Doesn’t that smell good. I love that it ships to my house. It gives me a great shave and a great price. It is $15 a set which includes the handle, three blades and the shave cream. Before you check out make sure you add a four pack of razors to your order and add the promo code Twit and you’ll get the four pack free. There are people, Engineers. John are you shaving?

John: Well you gave me the stuff I might as well try it out.

Leo: Might as well use it. I’ll have to get another box now. That was my blade.

John: You’ll have to give me this package now.

Leo: Take it.

Jolie: Let me see it. I want to see what I’m…

Leo:, promo code Twit, you’ll get the four blades free, the $15 handle. Then of course you’re going to get your Harry’s monthly.

John: I didn’t know that if I actually shaved with this I’d contaminate it and you’d have to give it to me.

Tim: I would’ve shaved with it if I’d known that.

John: Yeah.

Leo: Yeah, well. You come back. If fact you know what. You’re all going to get a Harry’s shave kit. I’ll make sure you all get one. There’s a picture of Shakespeare. John did you know your facial hair is as coarse as copper wire? Tim, I guess yours is copper wire.

Tim: Non-conductive.

Leo: Anyway, thank you Harry’s. We’re really glad to have you on the group. Everybody try it. and don’t forget to use Twit so you get that extra four pack of blades absolutely free. Is Mark Zuckerberg the Warren Buffet of technology? That is what Felix Salmon said.

Jolie: I love Felix. But what is the correlation there?

Tim: I don’t see it either.

Leo: Is he the Elon Musk? I bet he wants to be Elon.

Jolie: I think he is the Mark Zuckerberg.

Leo: Yeah, that’s good enough. You know I’d take that. I’d take that. I’m starting to get some respect for Mark I have to say.

Jolie: He’s grown up so much since he took that job.

Leo: He doesn’t do the shower scents anymore.

John: That’s disappointing.

Jolie: Well he’s a grown man now. He was a boy when he started that company. The first few times I saw him speak at press conferences he was just a nervous little boy, just shaking. And now his is man, he has boys.

Leo: Nothing like 30 billion dollars to give you confidence.

John: He’s shooting animals.

Tim: I respect the shooting animals and hunting thing.

John: I do too. I think it’s great.

Tim: Not that I like hunting but if you’re going to eat meat, then that is the way to do it.

Leo: Are you a Vegetarian?

Tim: I’m a Vegetarian.

Leo: That’s an ethical point of view. Me? I don’t want to see the pig, I just want the bacon. Personally.

John: I’m sure that is a common thought. There’s a lot of people that don’t want to see anything that reminds them. They will eat the meat but they want anything to remind them of it.

Jolie: My husband is like that. I love killing animals and eating them. We did a crab boil once and naming them as I put them in the pot.

John: Now you’re talking, there’s a cook.

Jolie: I like to butcher pig meat. The skin and the fat and everything.

John: Have you had goat?

Jolie: No, I think I’ve had goat.

John: Seriously. Goat is ….

Jolie: It is the most widely eaten meat in the world.

John: It is. And it is mild. It’s like mild lamb that doesn’t even have the goat flavor.

Leo: John you would enjoy this. It is coming out April 1st. The goat simulator. Have you seen the video? It’s a new game.  I know it is April Fools’ day but I think this is real. Have you seen this?

Tim: I have. It is fantastic.

Leo: So this is a take off, I’m told of another game, Dead Island. But of course you’re a Marine with guns you’re a goat.

Tim: Instead of a Zombie, you’re a goat.

Leo: It is a Zombie the goat is replacing or is the goat a hero?

Tim: No the goat is the… well it starts out as a person.

Leo: This is backwards in time right?

Tim: You should watch the Dead Island trailer. That was amazing. The game wasn’t that great but the trailer was amazing.

Leo: So the goat is the Zombie.

Tim: It’s actually the father of… the goat has an inject pack. It’s a simulation, Leo/.

Leo: Watch this. We find out where this all began at the exploding gas station. The goat apparently caused a gas station to explode.

Tim: As goats do.

Leo: As goats will. Goat simulator. It is a very affordable, only $9.99 on Steam. April 1st. That’s not an ad.

John: Should’ve gotten paid.

Leo: Is that weird?

Jolie: Yes.  

Leo: So you think that is real. That is actually going to be a game?

Jolie: I flee from my generation, I do.

Leo: Why? That is great stuff. That’s creative.

Jolie: You’re right. That’s up there with Picasso.

Leo: Not everybody can be a Picasso. Some people are goats.

Tim: For every Picasso you need a bit of funny graffiti on the wall.

Leo: John, could you bring me my iPad, I wanted to show everybody the exciting new software from Microsoft. It’s called Office, maybe you’ve heard about it?

Jolie: Is this on the promoted? Are they advertising?

John: Yeah, are they advertising?

Jolie: If I were you I would trade it out and his headlines was, “Thanks to Microsoft Office for iPad I got absolutely nothing done.”

Leo: Isn’t that funny because it is productivity software. I think they did a pretty good job.

Tim: It looks nice, yeah.

Jolie: I haven’t seen it yet so let’s take a look.

Leo: I have to do a couple of things. First of all I have to sign in to my Microsoft 365 account for $10 a month for or $99 for a year. You get Office on five computer, Mac or PC and five tablets. That’s a pretty good deal. Office in this case means Word, Excel, Power Point.

John: On ten machines?

Leo: Any mix of platforms.

John: Any mix?

Leo: Yes, it could be Mac or PC’s.  Okay sign in. I do care about my Microsoft password going out. I shouldn’t give them my gmail address. How about Outlook? Tim you’ve used it. You tell them about it while I get this up and running.

John: You do writing and other computer oriented things would you use that iPad instead of desktop?

Tim: I would not.

Leo: For me that’s not what it’s for.

Tim: It is for thing like if you have a presentation that you want to give, for example, it is a lot easier to carry that into the room than to carry a laptop, especially if you’re traveling. The nice thing is that you can use that Read Only for free.  Some of you have talking about that you just need to read or you need to look at quickly.

Jolie: Wouldn’t you be using Google docs for that? You can open Microsoft through Google Docs.

Tim: Google Docs on Microsoft is pretty terrible. You don’t have the kind of power in google docs that you would have in an iPad.

Jolie: Oh an iPad? Specifically?

Tim: So you have full power office on there and if you do want to make an update, then certainly. But if you’d just want to do read-only stuff, you want to take a look at presentations or you want to give a presentation from your iPad you can do it for free. Which I think is a very nice feature for sure.

Leo: Cnet says there is a way around paying for it, which Microsoft said we just hope that people will adhere to our license agreement. So apparently do not going to shut that down.  This would be going a lot faster if I didn’t have to do it in Korean.

John: What? Here just give it to me all change it back I remember how I did it.

Leo: Oh that’s okay I enjoy learning about new cultures. It's a bit of a challenge.

John: What is the thing you have hope to your iPad?

Leo: This is my stand it turns it into like a little, see isn’t that nice? It's the same material that geckos have on their feet.

John: Let me see?

Leo: No right now I’m doing my demo. But after I’m done I’ll let you see it. So this is Microsoft Word, the main being is fidelity. You are actually going to get something that’s… I can open this in Google docs but it’s not going to look like this. I can open and pages if I bought I works, the Apple product.

Tim: Anybody who is used Google Docs on pretty much any mobile platform knows that it is very powerful, in fact we used it a lot at CNET. But it changes your formatting in your presentation so it is not as nice as an office wherefore you hear about Apple products.

Leo: And you may be forced to use Office. So to have that compatibility. I realize that iPad users aren’t going to go crazy over this, but I have to say that I am impressed by, for instance they’ve got ribbon functionality without taking over the whole screen. The text targets are a little small, this is always been a problem with Windows 8 as well. But usable. You can see how small that is and I have a big fat finger so is it is kind of hard to hit some of these. But I think the ability to have an iPad with you, a lot of people with iPads have keyboards.

Tim: I wouldn’t be running my memoirs on there yet. But if I had to make an update to my memoirs perhaps I would do it on there.  And the battery life on there is a lot better Dan on your tablet or your laptop.

Leo: I think to me this signals a little bit of a seed change of Microsoft. And one of the reasons they wanted to start this event in San Francisco, a week before build, is because he really wanted to be there and do it separately from build is that I think this is not something that wouldn’t have happened if it didn’t happen and or Palmer. And Gates, I think they were very protective of the Windows and office franchise that the internal groups there were very tough and protective of that. And they didn't want, for instance, to offer office on an Apple Platform, they were very reluctant to do that.

Tim: And Palmer didn’t want to give up 30% of the revenue on any office sales, which is something that apparently Palmer was very very adamant about. But now very quickly after here we are and they are selling it on IOS, You can subscribe to 365 and indeed Apple gets the 30% code.

Leo: So I think what is happening is that Microsoft is kind of a new gentler kinder Microsoft. Microsoft sees itself more as a services and cloud provider, because one of the things this works better with is in one drive you have your documents, you’re working on them on the computer, they are available immediately on the iPad and vice versa. And I think that is a big part of the selling point. It’s the same as Google docs, but it’s really about Google Drive. I think Microsoft might finally be saying, “Alright we get it. It’s a diverse world, it’s a bring your own device world, there are people who have iPhones…”. Remember when Bill Gates wouldn’t let his kids buy an iPhone or an iPad? He wouldn’t let them have it in the house?

Jolie: They had to use a Zoon.

Leo: They had to use a Zoon.

Tim: And then he said, “Bring me my iPad”.

Leo:  “Bring me my iPad” is a message. Anyway it works nicely, it’s beautiful, well defined. I think it was interesting I expected that he would talk a little bit about it. And don’t worry this will be on Windows 812, there will be a touch for word modern UI version of this. Even though we know it’s in the works, it may even be a related code base.

Tim: You mentioned that.

Leo: He didn’t mention it. And I thought that was interesting too. I think this is an acknowledgment that he isn’t the Windows world Olie anymore.

John: Sounds like surrender to me.

Leo: To surrender or just acknowledging the facts?

John: It’s a new guy, he’s trying out some ideas.

Leo: There is no way that Microsoft can continue to say we are going to be the Windows and office company. I mean and they’ve got as you are that's a good company.

Jolie: I’m excited to see what they have to say it built, it’s more of a developer audience there.

Leo: Are you going to that?

Jolie: Know I’m not. I have things to do.

John: Going to what?

Jolie: The Build conference, next week.

Tim: I will be there.

Leo: Please report back.

Tim: I will report back.

Leo: In fact we are not going to be doing Windows weekly on his regular Dave this week on Wednesday because Paul and Mary Joe are in town for build and we are going to do a special Windows weekly Friday afternoon. You can buy email tickets@twit TV.

John: This gecko stuff is weird.

Leo: You can pry it off. Another program, now that I’m mentioning this, instead of Windows Weekly this week, April 2, I’m going to host a special hangout with Vince Cerf. The father of the Internet. As a matter of fact you can sign-up at Vince, as you know is a Google employee now.

Jolie: He is so kind. The man is a genius and he is very down-to-earth and he doesn’t make you feel stupid. Like you’re bad at math.

Leo: He’s a sweetheart. I love him. I will moderate it, we’ll get a chance to talk to Vince about a lot of things. He’s been one of the advocates of IBB 6 but mostly I think what we’re going to talk about is how we can protect…  it’s going to be fun I’m looking forward to it. So that is going to be fun. April 2, and I think we are able to stream it live. So it will be at the normal Windows Weekly time; 11 AM Pacific, 2 PM Eastern time, 1800 UTC. Great. So you can watch it on YouTube, it will be a hangout streamed live on YouTube or you can watch it on our website at And you can participate, if you want to ask questions, by going to A free and open world depends on a free and open web. Now, is that cynical of Google?

Jolie: What?

Leo: They are sponsoring this, they paid then serve, is that a cynical move by an evil giant that is trying to take all of your information?

Jolie: I think it’s hypocritical.

Leo: Do you?

Jolie: Yes absolutely.

Leo: Do they not want a free and open web? I mean isn’t that how they make money?

Jolie: Free? Open?

Leo: Yes! Isn't that how they make money?

Jolie: They make money by trapping people into using services that…

Leo: Trapping? Nobody’s trapping anybody.

Jolie: You don't think so?

Tim: Luring maybe.

Leo: Luring is a better word.

Jolie: The way they have consolidated our identities across all their services isn’t trapping?

Leo: However, they have Google Take Out which means you can get your data out at any time, you're not trapped into it.

Jolie: Get your data out? As a copy. You can take a copy of your data, but they still have it.

Leo: Well… they say they delete it, I’m not sure if they do, hey why wouldn’t they? They don’t have room for all that.

 John: You’re just a booster for the industry today, this is great!

Leo: Come on! You guys are paranoid cynics. I for one appreciate our new overlords.

John: There you go, you nailed it. This stuff is unbelievable.

Jolie: Can I see it?

Leo:  Technology, what a concept. Do you want to buy one? It’s I’m not a sponsor, I bought one myself.  It is called the slope.

John: They should be advertising on the show.

Leo: Yeah, just because I use it. Don't cut it! Are you just going to stick it?

John: She was going to cut you there for a second!

Jolie: Shut up!

 John: Don’t cut yourself! You’ve got to push it.

Tim: Please close that. I’m getting nervous on this side of the table.

Leo: Some people are scared of the Internet, I’m scared of sharp knives.

Leo:  Let’s take a little break, and see what you missed, if you missed anything on Twit last week. Have a cupcake. I'll tell you Mike Elgin has been knocking it out of the park, I hope you been watching TNT every day at 10 AM. Just as great insightful list of the stories that were talking about and interviews that people really understand. It’s a deep dive and I’m just really proud of it. Let’s see what Mike is up to. What is coming up this week?

Mike Elgin: Coming up this week, everything happens on Wednesday, April 2. Microsoft’s annual Build developer conference kicks off in San Francisco that day. Amazon expected to

unveil a new streaming video product and that is on Wednesday at 8 AM Pacific time. We will cover that live here on the Twit network. Some guy named Leo Laporte will host a Google hangout with Internet legend Vince Cerf. Wednesday at 11 AM Pacific time. That is what is coming up on the Wednesday ahead. Back to you Leo.

Leo:  Thank you Mike Elgin. Yeah, Friday We will be doing Windows weekly and you are invited to come by. I just want to say we’re doubling down on geeky nests. I really want, you know there is a lot of technology coverage in the world but I really want to just be super geeky. I just want to get as geeky as we can and give people the information they care about and need. I feel like we are on the right track. I think Mike was a great acquisition.

Leo: Our show today, we’ll get back to the news in just a second, is brought to you by I want you to start using your time more effectively. It’s tough deciding when you are in business where to focus, if you are a software developer do I develop for iOS, do I develop for android? If you're in business there is one thing you do now want to send your resources out to go to the post office. It is a waste of valuable time. Getting stamps for mailing and shipping. If you ship, if you mail, and most businesses do whether it’s invoices, brochures or flyers. Or products. It you've got to use It is the modern way to do fulfillment. We use it here, it is fabulous. It lets you access everything the post office can do right from your desk. You don’t have to wait until the post office is open to do it. You can do it 24/7. With your computer, your printer, no postage meter, no special links, you can buy and print official US post this any time, for any letter, in a package, any class of mail. It is a fraction of the cost of the postage meter. I’m going to show you how you can get that USB scale so you always have the right postage. Even when the cost of the stamp goes up, which it just did, it is automatic. At you also get discounts you can’t get at the post office. Plus, because the computer can do all kinds of stuff, the post office can’t do. You can’t import addresses from all the popular address books. Use cost codes to track postage spending by specific customer. Get automatic address verification. Discounts on insurance, certified mail, return receipt, automatic still out at international customs forms. You don’t have to write any forms. You can print right on it envelopes so it looks great, it has your company logo, takes the address from QuickBooks or Amazon or at sea or eBay or wherever your selling from. Your return address is automatically populated. I think this is such a great service., go there right now before you do anything else. Click that microphone button on the upper right-hand corner there and type in twit and you’re going to get a special offer, $110 no risk trial. Of course you get 30 days of but you also get $55 in free postage that you can use over the first few months of your account. You get that scale, they pay shipping and handling. By the way you can cancel any time in the first four weeks and pay nothing, and the scale is yours to keep., please use the Promo code twit.

Leo:  We were talking about Mike Elgin, he wrote an interesting article, I wonder what you guys think he says Apple should buy Yahoo. He says, When Google or Facebook has a new initiative they want to get people together to talk about it. They get them together on their social media presence right? When Twitter has something to say, when Apple has something new and exciting it wants its users to talk about it goes to the Apple social… no, there is no Apple social media. There is no way for Apple users to leverage that social media that Google does with Google Plus and Facebook does. Apple needs eyeballs and user data. Yahoo has both. Yahoo is worth about 37 billion, Apple has five times that in cash. They could literally write a check today. They would get Marissa Mayer which would be quite an acquisition. I don’t know if she would stick around, but I bet she would.

John: I bet she wouldn’t.

Jolie: No she would not stick around. The reason she is Yahoo’s CEO is because she has power that she could never get at Google, she hates ceiling. There are so many ceilings at Apple. She would never go, after being CEO of a company like Yahoo she would never go back.

Leo: Is there anything that Apple could offer that would make her happy?

John: Make her the CEO.

Jolie: Tim’s head on a platter.

Leo: You’re right John. Make her CEO. Seriously.

Jolie: Wooo. Let’s talk about that.

Leo: Tim Cook is a great COO. They need a lead singer, a front man or woman, somebody who can take the stage with charisma, confidence, wouldn’t Marissa be a great CEO?

Jody: I couldn’t agree with you more.

John: No I don’t think so.

Tim: I think she would be a great CEO.

Jolie: I think she would be great at everything. I’m a great fan girl.

John: She’s a fan girl so don’t pay attention to her.

Tim: Unless something drastic happening I don’t see that they would move Tim Cook aside. It would be an admission of defeat if nothing else.

John:  It’s not like the company is going broke.

Tim: There is no reason to it. He has been doing a great job.

Jolie: This is just a ludicrous hypothetical that Apple is going to buy Yahoo.

Leo: I don’t know. Google has one hundred and 87 million unique visitors every month, Yahoo is like…,

John: If I ever wrote something like this I’d be called a troll let me tell you that right now.

Leo: I don’t mind being called a troll, it is kind of troll-ish, but I think it’s not a bad idea. Maybe there are some nonstarters, Marissa is one perhaps, but I still think this is something that Apple has never done well, look at Ping. Terrible.

Jolie:  When did Yahoo ever do it well? Refresh my memory.

Leo: Flickr is good. Yahoo’s content sites are very strong.

Tim: 1996.

John: 1990.

Jolie: That isn’t the same as social. What they do very well is content. They haven’t even put a toe in the social water for a very long time because they know that is not something that they aren’t doing well and they don’t want to compete in that arena.

 Tim: I think it is a fascinating idea.

John: Sorry I mentioned that. A little louder, Leo.

Jolie: I feel like I'm beating you up today and I’m really not.

Leo: I'm actually enjoying it.

Jolie: Do you want another cupcake?

Leo: What is my safe word, just so I know?

John: Oh please. I don’t need this sort of chit chat.

Leo: I’m not including you, John.

Jolie: It’s a family show.

Leo: It's a family show. Are you ready for Google I/O? The developer conference coming up soon?

Jolie: Yes I am! Yes I am!

John: Do you have a ticket to go?

Jolie: Well I have a press pass. Oh, the registration. I’m just going to say something. So, here’s the thing. Last year, there were a lot of glitches in the registration, people got charged for tickets they never got, people tried over and over to register and the web site got broken because 9000 million billion people wanted to go to IO. So this year, instead they are giving you two days, two leisurely days to sign up for your IO ticket anytime you want. And then they are selecting people at random who get drawn. There is no meritocracy, there is no first-come first serve.

John: This is done poorly. They should either charge more and let people pay to get in and stop giving stuff away because that is what causes this. Just stop giving stuff away and see who really wants to go to this thing.

Jolie: I love the Developer side of it, I love going to the little chats and seeing okay this is what they're going to do next. This is how I can build an app for whatever service or device they are coming out with. It is fascinating stuff. And there are people there who are just not, well I mean they want to be there, I’m sure they deserve to be there but not as much as others.

John: I think people who go there should be there for a good reason, not just to get some free stuff.

Jolie: Totally.

Leo: I think, is it not unseasonable, I don't know how many people get into Muscone West maybe 5,000 West but it is not unreasonable many many more people than that you want to develop for Android or want to develop for Google.

John: If they are going to have this issue why don't they make the venue, take the bigger Muscone do it like oracle does and load it up.

Leo: You know what they did last year, they did stream all the content, did they not last year?

Tim: Yeah they did.

Jolie: They are doing that this year too.

Leo: If you really want the material you can get it.  What people really want to do is get together, yes they want free stuff, but they want to see.

John: Screw the free stuff and if you want the material watching the streaming is not the same as going up to the guy right after saying the funny thing is when you said this, it doesn't make sense because of this.  And he says oh yeah it is because of this.  You can't do that with the streaming.

Leo:  I have been playing this front page, you don't have to do that by the way.  If you want to register just scroll down.  That's the test, ok if you’re like me you’re going to just play the game for hours hoping you get to Google I/O.  Or if you are a smart developer you will just go ok, I just scroll down.

John: Actually somebody in the Chat room has a great idea.  Google should just buy Burning Man and do the thing, because half the people go to Burning Man.

Leo: And combine it all together.

Jolie: There you go.

John: and work at Google.

Tim: That is a lot of sand in your phone though.

Leo: Alkali

Tim: And a lot of other uncomfortable places too I might add.

Leo: Yeah your crevices.

Tim:  I would say random choice is a little bit better than what we had before because at least hopefully the sight won't crash because people aren't logging on buying 20 tickets for everybody in their company who may or may not need to go because they got in first.

Jolie: Yeah it's just sad.

Tim: It is sad that they have to go that route.

Jolie: I hate it when people have no control over their own fates. Which is usually the case.

Leo: You know who has control over their own fates?  Its people who invest in Bitcoin.  That is the future.

Jolie: O my God.  Yeah let’s talk about this.

Leo: IRS has decided that Bitcoin is not a currency it is a property.

John: I thought that was a great idea.

Leo: I think it makes perfect sense.

Jolie: Sure

Leo: It is a little complicated.  For instance I have 7 Bitcoins in my wallet.  I need to know what they were worth when I acquired them, so that when I sell them or buy something with them I can pay capital gains tax on the difference.  That's how it is treated like property.  But that just doesn't make sense.  There is the onus on the user to figure out what their stuff is worth.  Somebody suggested the next generation of Bitcoin wallets could do this somewhat automatically. 

John: I don't have a Bitcoin.

Leo: What it does mean is the Federal government has finally said yes this is something. 

John: Yeah it's something.

Jolie: It's funny, at Venture Beat we track all the Venture Capital News.  The investments in Bitcoin start-ups are just off the rector.  For something that, it seems like it is doomed to crash and burn at any second now.  They're pumping so much money into it, so much money.

John: It's crazy. It's insanity.

Jolie It is. I agree with you.

Leo: Bitcoin miners will have to include the fair market value of the currency on the day that it appears in their wallet, the day it is mined,  as income and then that's the basis when they use it for something that's the new value and they have to pay capital gains between the basis and the final value. 

John: That sounds right.

Jolie:  How many Bitcoins do you own?

Leo: 7, I am a proud owner of 7.

John: So you own over $3500 worth of bitcoins,

Leo: At one point it was worth $10,000 is now worth 3500 bucks.  I should have sold at the peak.

John: You should have but how do you know what the peak is?

Leo: That's a good question.

John: If you listen to Max Kisor the peak is $100,000.

Leo: The Winklevise say 40 and I thought that was bullish. 

Jolie:  Here is the thing you can't quantitatively or qualitatively understand how it is going to move.  It's not like any other kind of  security where you can make educated guesses.  There are no fundamentals to analyze.  It’s just crazy to invest in it.

Leo: You know whats scary is if somebody who has been doing Bitcoining mining all this time now suddenly has an unexpected tax liability.

Jolie: Well and a but load of money. 

Leo: Well that is true.

Tim: But we must of known this is coming.  I mean they should have seen writing on the wall that ultimately this was going to be acknowledged in on shape or another.  And the government would want their cut they always do.

Leo:  It does seem like a reasonable interpretation of what bitcoin is. I love this one.  Speaking of people minting money.  King the creators of Candy Crush had their IPO and the stock dropped 16% in the first day.  It went off on 22.50 and ended the day at 19 dollars.

Tim: Closed the week at 18 dollars so it continued to go down.

Jolie: That's not too bad, Facebook IPO was worse than that, Twitters IPO was worse I believe.

Leo: Was it, both of them dropped that much.

Jolie: I believe so.

John: It's just a 50 cent stock, sorry.

Leo: I think the stock market is basicly saying to King you’re a one hit wonder.  You've got Candy Crush.

John: Well you've got the example over here in the city.  Farm place, Zinga.

Jolie: What is Zinga at right now?  I am going to look up.

Tim: Zinga is down to a couple bucks a share, I believe.  They lost almost the same share price as a matter a fact. 

Leo:  They are currently worth half of their float price. 

Jolie: Zinga is trading at $4.42 right now.  Which is way better than they were this time last year. 

Tim:  It is fairly easy to compare the 2 because we've got Candy Crush vs. Farmville.  We've got a very strong tie to Facebook like before but one of the big differences here is King is really focused on the mobile side of things much more than Zinga ever was.  Zinga was very tied to Facebook where as King has a much bigger dog in the hunt when it comes to the mobile side of things.  They have a IOS apps and Android apps and they are finding good success there.  But 80% of their revenue comes from this one game.  Even though they have 100's of other games, 600 developers churning out

Leo: It's a good revenue, its 1.9 billion dollars last year, that's amazing isn't it. 

Tim: Yeah and that's up from 200 million the year before, so that is a huge increase.

Leo: It’s not an insignificant amount, I would take the money.  93 million people play Candy Crush every day.  More than a Billion plays a day. 

Tim: Yeah it’s amazing really.

John: I have never played the game.

Jolie: Who are these people, John.

John: Not me! Tim?

Tim: I've played it as research only.

John: Tim plays it, research only.

Leo: It is actually strangely compelling.  It is just BeJewelled, you slide stuff and they disappear.

John: It's just a game, pretty soon Space Invaders will have an IPO. 

Leo: It's candy and it makes you want to do it.

John: Oh candy.

Leo: I will tell you what it really is, and if they can bottle this they might have some value.  It’s one of those games, these are psychologically addictive.  They're really tricky how the reward structure happens, how they get you to post to Facebook to get an extra life. They've done it very well.  I think there is some value in that, if they really understand that.

John: What's the value?

Leo:  The value is the deep understanding of the psychology of game play and the psychology of the game play in social environment.

John: No what is the value to you?

Leo: Oh there is no value to me, I am a zombie.  I am a hooked zombie.

Jolie: The value is getting people to waste their time.  There is no thought involved in it, no empathy, there is no connection.

Leo: That's why people like it, its calming.

Jolie: People suck sir.

Leo: Don't you watch T.V.?  Do you ever watch T.V.?

Jolie: Every now and again, I don't have a lot of time.

Leo: She's one of those, did you go to a Waldorf school and that kind of thing?  Do you live on yogurt?

Jolie:  I didn't even go to school.  I went to college, I did not go to school.

Leo: Were you home schooled? 

Jolie: Up until a certain point, then I would read books and do videos and stuff.  But no I did not go.

Leo:  Were you a street urchin?  Did you pick pockets?

John: She doesn't look too urchinish.

Jolie: No, I did work when I was a child.

John: Don't put up with this, that is so horrible.

Jolie: Why are you asking about my childhood?

Leo: Well wait a minute, because you are an odd person.  You’re a strange

Jolie: I take that as the greatest compliment.

Leo: Yeah you want to be, I get it. 

Jolie: I just embrace who I am.  Who I am doesn't like the thought of people wasting their brain cells.

John: And she doesn't like people wasting their time. 

Leo: I agree.

Jolie: It’s not only their time, they just grow dull and numb and scary.

Leo: Well here's some good news, Ryan Seacrest lost in court. 

John: Well that's the first time, for what?

Leo: He is so good looking, I hate him.

John: You know Seacrest is probably just rolling in dough. 

Leo: Probably, definitely.  He's got 100 million dollar contract with Clear Channel the company that pays me for the stupid radio show 1/10th of that amount.

Tim: A 10th that's not bad.

Leo: Alright 100th, no alright a 1,000th 

John: He's mentored by Dick Clark took over all his properties. This is not a slouch of a guy to make money, Dick Clark. My old producers a silicon spin worked for NBC Spin, Jennifer.  She told me that this guy, she works for him to.  He comes in and he has a million appointments every day, exactly a half hour.  He has a handler with him to hit the stop watch, he comes in, they do the briefing, click out to the next meeting.

Leo: Would you want to be him?

John: That sounds like a miserable life.

Leo: It sounds horrible.

John: And he is just on the go.

Leo: Well he is making a lot of money.  Anyway he decided to be on the go he couldn't type on a screen.  He had to have a blackberry style keyboard, so he made the Typo.  You might have seen it at CES.  It was a case for the Iphone 5S that slides on and it gives it a Blackberry keyboard.  It's ugly.  Well apparently Blackberry thought it looked a lot like their keyboard and they sued him. A Justice court in San Francisco has issued a preliminary injunction prohibiting Typo from the sale of its keyboards.  I got one.

John: You did?

Tim: Hang onto that sucker!

Leo: Yeah I should.  Actually I gave it to a fan.

Tim:  They tried to give me one at CES but I declined because I had not intent of reviewing it.

Leo: I bought one, it was 100 bucks.  Sam Gibson bought 2. 

Tim: They will be worth more than Bitcoin soon.

Leo: He's also got 50 Bitcoins.

John: Gibson!

Tim: That dude is set.

Leo: Yeah, you know what he does.  He buys stuff that he really likes and he puts it in the freezer. 

John: Gibson's nuts.

Leo:  I wish I had to Dvorak sound board still because that's a good one right there.  I want a video sound board.  Anyway, yeah if you have a Typo, hold on to it.  It may be worth something. 

John:  I don't see how he could have lost that case.

Leo:  Well it’s not over, they are going to have a trial now.  But the judge felt like it had enough merit.

John: A keyboard is a keyboard. 

Leo: But if you saw it, it is domed.  It really looks like it, doesn't it? 

Tim: It has the same shape to the keys.  They are really designed to fit your thumbs.  It's very very similar and apparently there was an attempt for a Blackberry licensing deal but it didn't go through.

Leo:  That was a mistake.  Because that was in affect admitting they were copying it.

John:  Ah that's a problem.

Leo: A big mistake.

Tim: Although Rim/Blackberry should have done this from the first place and then they themselves would have made some money. 

Leo: Good point.

Jolie:  I do love physical keyboards.  The original Droid

Leo: Do you use a Blackberry? Oh you have a smart phone.

Jolie: No, I have a Windows phone that I am using now.  Its delightful.

John: Why?

Jolie: Why is it delightful?  Because it makes other interfaces look primitive.  It’s pretty twirly and sparkly.

Leo: I think it has a pretty good interface.

Jolie: It is like the Disney princess of Smartphones.

Leo:  I am keeping my M8.  I love this phone.  Did you see the pictures I posted of Jolie on my Google Plus? 

John: I don't look at anything.  I've actually quit the internet long before she did.

Leo:  I was the first to quit the internet.

John:  I quit the internet before there was an internet. 

Leo: You whippersnappers you don't.

Jolie: If I quit again, can I still come back.

Leo: I just didn't want to offend you by inviting you, I thought oh.

Jolie: It is so hard to offend me. 

Leo: I know we have tried, God knows.  No I just thought she gave up the internet she probably won't want to be on TWIT anymore.  But you are always welcome.  I just shouldn't have assumed.  So this is a picture I took before the show.  This is the new HTC1 the M8 which a lot of reviewers, Anon gave it a really positive review.  Saying it is not perfect, he would have like to seen an improved camera.

John:  How is the battery life because the old HTC1 is a dog with a battery. 

Leo:  They have improved it.  The battery is 13% bigger.  It is 26

John: That's why the phone is bigger.

Leo: The phone is bigger because it is a 5 inch screen instead of 4.7.  But also they are using the new Qualcomm 801 chips which have some really.

John: Ah the 801.

Leo: But watch this.  So this is the camera, I took a picture of Jolie before the show and then I played with it.  It has a couple of interesting features.  This is one I like, the ability to selectively defocus in software the background.  The reason they are doing that is they have 2 sensors.  The normal camera sensor from last phone is still there but they have added the front camera sensor from the old M7 and it is taking depth information at the same time.  Don't you think John, it is pretty nice.  It's not a professional

John: You get some bouquet out of the blue.

Leo: Yeah you get some bouquet.  Now watch this, this is a special affect.  The motion zoom that I have added.  I don't know about this one. 

Jolie:  I think I look like Elvira in that one. 

Leo:  It has, that is silly the little paste on things.

Jolie:  I like it.

Leo: That's dumb.

Jolie:  I love smiley faces.

Leo: This I like though.  You can add falling Japanese cherry tree blossoms or that is dandelions.  It turns it into a movie. Oh no that's.

John: Yikes.  

Leo: That turns her into me.  That was scary, that's a bad effect.

Tim: That's quite a filter. 

Leo: I will review this on Before you Buy on Tuesday.

Jolie: Can I see it again?

Leo: Yeah you played with the HDC1. It's in Korean now unfortunately.

Jolie: You want me to fix that for you?

Leo: Yeah could you?  If you could figure that out I would be really happy.

John:  It will be in Cyrillic when she is done.

Tim:  The one complaint I have heard people say about that who have had some time with it.  In terms as the hardware, it is even more slippery than the last one.  A lot of people had issues dropping the last one because it was kind of round and kind of hard to hang on to.  That one is even more round.

Leo:  I would say it is slippery, it is brushed metal. 

John:  They should put the Gecko stuff on it.

Tim:  Then you could never put it down.

Leo:  They make the silliest case.  Have you seen the Dot View. 

Tim: The dot case yeah.

Leo: It's like a Light Brite.

John: You talking about the Gecko guys?

Leo: No this is a case that HTC1 is making. What it does is, I don't think this is going to save you any battery life. 

Tim:  It turns on the magic of color light. 

Leo:  The case has holes in it, in the front.  The screen knows because of the magnet and the case that the Dot View case is on and it starts, it shows the time, the date, when calls come in through the holes.  It looks like a Light Brite.  It's the strangest thing. 

Tim: It’s a great idea.

Leo: But at least it's unique.

Tim: The problem of it is people don't like flip cases.

Leo: Yeah I don't want a case on this.  But the reason I bring it up, John didn't want

Tim: It is pretty cool.

Leo: John didn't want to drop it.  This has a little rubberized texture.  It actually comes with a little case, in the box.  There is a little shell case, so maybe they acknowledge.  But look at that, it shows the time, if an alarm is going off.  If you swipe it, It is weird it looks like a Light Brite doesn't it.

John: Yeah that's interesting.

Leo: Isn't it bizarre.

John:  It is different, you’re right.

Leo:  I like it that they are trying something different.  You know I almost want to plug this phone, because I want this plucky little company to succeed.

Tim:  I think we all do. 

Leo:  They are really on the edge, frankly.

John: Yeah they are always on the edge.  They've got pretty pretty poor public relations going on, the way I see it.

Leo:  They can't compete with Samsung.  Samsung is spending 100's and 100's of millions on marketing every year.  HTC doesn't have it.  Frankly, I've got to say it.  I have finally come to the opinion that Samsung phones are crap.

John:  You know that is funny because my step-son Eric he does nothing but complain about these things.

Leo:  They are crap.

John:  He says, can't you get me a free phone.  I say no I can't get you a free phone.  I can't get free anything because everything has changed.  But I don't know I have a Samsung Nexus phone that

Leo:  That is different.   That's a Nexus.  That's great I agree with you because that is a Google experience phone.  If you buy the Galaxy S4 Google experience phone that will be alright.  It is a little plasticy. They can get the HTC M8 the new one as a Google experience phone as well. Hey you changed it. 

Jolie:  I fixed it for you.

Leo:  You put it back into English.  Do you speak Korean?

Jolie: No.

Leo: Your just smart.  So now it has now time at all.

Jolie:  I didn't do that. 

Tim:  No time to lose.

Jolie: Actually I had to clear it all out.

Leo:  Did you change it from Korean to invisible?

Jolie: No I don't know what it is doing? Oh hey there it is back.

Leo: O thank goodness. 

John: It was just rebooting.

Leo:  It was probably downloading all the fonts that you had deleted, thank you very much.  I want them to do well, because I want the competition.  I feel like Samsung has become a behemoth.

John:  They are a bully too.

Leo: And they are a bully.

Tim:  It is nice to have an Android device that has esthetics as a priority.  Whereas with Samsung, with so many Android devises esthetics are very much a second, a third, a fourth or fifth thought.  Performance, battery life are really the leading things that most Android buyers look for.  The one that they obviously spend a lot of time with the design and engineering which is very nice but unfortunately.  The one sold very well for HTC but it didn't sell anywhere near the Galaxy S4 or of course any of the Iphones at the time. 

Leo: Were they able to make money, do you think?

Tim:  From what I have heard, they did ok with it.  But I don't know if they did enough.  I mean HTC had so many devices that were doing pretty well for them before and now this is the one they are pretty much hanging their hat on.  Whether it is enough.  Honestly, I don't know if there is enough change here to convert anybody who didn't like the HTC1 to buy this.

Leo: Yeah if you didn't like it.  Although they did do one thing that really bothered me and they fixed is that they now have the Google on screen buttons instead of the capacitive buttons.  HTC did a nonstandard 2 button thing which was very confusing.  But now they've got the standard.  In fact Sense 6 which is the new Sense that is on this, is actually very good.  They have the blink feed, they have updated that to a really good job.

Jolie: Ah there is just so much crap.

Tim: It's great to that they are pushing that back to other devices to.  I think you can get blink feed now on other devices if you like it.

Leo: You can download it.

Tim: If you like it.

Leo:  I have always loved the Zoeys.

Jolie:  You know what I think is really exciting.

Leo: What do you think?  Which Windows phone do you have by the way?

Jolie:  I don't know.  I think it is really exciting to look at the burgeoning group of low end Smartphones.  Like the Firfox OS phones, the LG mini that came out, where they're sort of a Smartphone, sort of a dumb phone.  Cheap to manufacture, cheap to buy and they conserve power very very well.  Then you have applications like Whatsup that helps them to conserve data as well.  I think that is where all the growth in the world is going to happen.  Literally in the world.

Leo: I like the Nokia 521 which is their low end Windows phone but of course Nokia decided to do Android.   They have the Ashalong as well.  These are very big in the developing world.

Jolie: I mean a phone you can buy for 50 bucks that can change lives in ways that aren't scary.

Tim:  This will be the first Build with Nokia, by the way.  Which will be interesting. 

Leo: The First

Tim: Build conference this week.

Leo: But will Nokia be there yet as a Microsoft, they're yet owned by Microsoft.  It not til April.

Tim:  So is it a Nokia conference on Wednesday?

Leo: There are going to do their own thing, that is how they will handle that. 

John: You got to report back.

Leo:  I look forward to it.  We will do a lot of Build coverage on the show.  We're going to take a little break and come back with some final words.  You’re watching This week in Tech, I told you did I not, the best panel ever.   Jolie O'dell back from the internet grave.

Jolie: The interlands of the real world. 

Leo: Interlands.  Are you considering cutting up the credit cards? Disconnecting the phone? No, you like that stuff?  No?  Don't you think a credit card company knows more about you than Google? 

Jolie: Yes but they have a very different history of what they do with that information.  Very different.  You do your thing now. 

Leo:  I am going to do my ad.  Tim Stevens is also here from Cnet.  You’re doing the car thing now.

Tim: I am doing a lot of car stuff these days.

Leo: I am really glad about that.  That's great.

Tim: They will doing even more car stuff coming up later this year.

Leo: I am going to ask you, what I should buy after the ad.

John: Wait a minute.

Leo: What?

John: You just bought an Audi A8. 

Leo: Oh yeah never mind I won't ask you.

Tim: You can have more than one car.  I have multiple cars.

John: You should start collecting cars, that's the end.  That's the beginning of the end.

Leo: Did you know Tim races.

Tim: I do race.  On the ice, in the wintertime, no less.

John : Oh your one of those guys. 

Tim: The racing season is over because the lakes aren't thick enough.

John: That ice racing is hilarious.

Tim: I have to get my motorcycle out now for this year.

Leo: You fixed up a Triumph.

Tim: No it is a Suburu

John: It is actually quite funny to watch.

Leo: Do you have snow tires, chains?

Tim: Studded snow tires.

Leo: Studded tires, oh.  So you do have traction.

Tim: Yeah you do. 

Leo: It would be funny with no traction.

Tim: yeah everyone would be spinning not going anywhere, that would be great. 

John: Watching these guys race on the ice is like watching a greyhound race, if you have ever been to a track.  Because half the time one of the dogs falls and they all fall all over the place, it is a mess.

Jolie:   Is it anything like a tractor pull?  It sounds as sophisticated as a tractor pull.

Leo: There has to be a Youtube video of it.  We will get the video in a second.  Also Dvorak is here, I don't know why.  

John: Dvorak, no agenda

Leo: No agenda now twice weekly for your enjoyment. Our show brought to you by Fresh Books.  I know Tax time, this is terrible news, 2 weeks away.  2 weeks from Monday. 

Tim: I just filed.

Leo: It would be so much easier if you didn't have that shoe box full of papers, printed invoices.  Wouldn't it be nice if it were all on the computer no more hunting for receipts, digging for invoices, going through records one by one.  Fresh books is here to help.  A simple cloud accounting solution.  It can't help you this year, but next year it will make tax time a breeze.  With Fresh Books you can create professional looking invoices.  No more Word and Excel invoices, no these will look good with your logo, your stuff. Capture and track expenses.  They have smart phone apps too so you just press a button and it will keep track of all the time and expenses.  Plus you get real time business reports with a couple of clicks.  You can work anywhere, Fresh Books has mobile apps for your phone and tablet too.  I started using Fresh Books literally 10 years ago and it just saved my life.  You get paid faster.  It makes it easier.  They do currencies so you can invoice people around the world.  I had to do that, that is one of the main things Fresh Books solved for me.  Now they are better and better.  The sooner you start using Fresh Books the sooner you can start focusing on the work you love.  Fresh Books focus on your work not your paperwork. For a limited time try Fresh Books free for 60 days, 2 months.  To get started go to and when you see the how did you hear about us section if you would just put TWIT.  Let them know you heard it on TWIT.  Right now Fresh Books is giving our listeners a extended 60 day trial to make tax time a breeze next time.  Fresh Books, it is not, although you will get a site there but we want you to go to that's where you can get the 60 days free. we thank you for your support.  John C. Dvorak, I didn't know you liked Hookas

John:  Hookas

Leo: Actually that is a Price Club bottle of vodka.  How big is that?

John: This is Kirkland, this is Costco, not Price Club.

Jolie: Oh My gosh it is Kirkland Brand Vodka.

John: Yes and for insiders, because you always want a tip every once in a while people out there.

Leo:  Love those liquor tips.

John: This is Gray Goose.

Leo: What?  No!  They just put a Kirkland sticker on it.

John: Gray Goose makes a crapload of this stuff for them. 

Leo: Gray Goose is supposed to be a good vodka.  I don't know how you tell though.

John: It is a good vodka.

Leo: All vodka is the same.

John:   The giveaway is that it says made in France.  But if you actually grill the company about it they say yeah it is Gray Goose and it is like 1/3 the price.

Leo: So stop buying Gray Goose and start buying Kirkland vodka.

John: Not only that, but this is a better bottle, a big heavy bottom.

Tim: Certainly a larger volume.

John: 1.75, it's huge.

Leo:  It looks like a magnum, it is a magnum of vodka. 

John: Tip of the week.

Leo: So where can I find it, is it on Youtube.

Tim: yeah you can open a link somewhere. 

Leo: Just tell me what to search for.

Tim: Search for Adirondack Ice Racing.

Leo: Adirondack ice, I just love the name.

John: Have you ever won a championship?

Tim: I've won many a race. 

John: Do you wear a bunch of patches all over yourself?

Tim: No I don't have patches.

Leo: Round 1 Heat1 Coroga lake?

Tim: Round1 Heat1 is fine.

Leo: Are you in that one?

Tim: That's me.

Leo:  Is that the Adirondack Motor enthusiast club.

Tim: You got it. Coroga lake here you are.

Jolie: O my goodness.

Leo: O look Tim posted his on Youtube. So is this a Go pro or something?

Tim: This is a go pro sitting in the car

Leo: You’re on a frozen lake right now?

Tim: On Coraga lake, so if we go a little further up here you can see a little excitement once the race gets started.

Leo: It is a little bouncy.

Tim: Well lakes are not smooth as you think they would be.

Leo: You would think they would be as smooth as ice. 

Tim: No they are actually very bumpy.  We are actually getting air when we are going on the straight because there are big cracks and stuff. 

Leo: Is it because of snow on it?

Tim: No it is because the ice cracks, it shifts and freezes again. Plus there are a lot of ice fisherman out there and they dig holes in the ice and every now and again you will hit one of the holes

Leo: How do you see, well the course is marked with cones.

Tim: Yeah cones, and we are wheel to wheel here I am coming up on a Audi trying to pass it.

Leo: O those Audi's they have no pick up.  There he goes bye-bye.

John: You own an Audi.

Leo: I know I love it.  But it is a quatro is what you want on these races.  But you got an all wheel

Tim: Yeah, an all wheel drive.

John: What is your car?

Tim: This is a 2002 Suburu WRX

Leo: Uh oh, is he spinning out there?

Tim: No you get a little tail out and hang sideways.

Leo: It is drifting we call it.

Tim: It is drifting with very low grade.

Leo: There he goes both of you, now you can't see and that is dangerous.

Tim: It is dangerous.

Jolie: See I have driven in blizzards like that.

Leo: Just like that?

Jolie: well yeah you can't see much and ice everywhere.

Leo: It looks fun.

Tim: It is, it is one of the most incredibly fun thing you can do in a car.

Leo: Have you wrecked it ever?

Tim: I did get hit finally.  I have been doing this for years and I did get hit finally for the first time this winter.  I unfortunately spun out myself and got hit by a Saab.  It wasn't too bad actually.

Leo: What's your wife's name?

Tim:Her name is Amanda.

Leo: Amanda you don't mind that he does this? No, have you ever done it? No!

John: How fast do you end up getting?

Jolie: Is your life insurance policy really good? Ok there you go

Tim: We actually get up to about 80 or 90 miles per hour tops.

Leo: Whoa you’re kidding.

Tim: Somebody asked in chat, do I double clutch, yes I double clutch.

Leo: O you do, your one of them. 

Tim: I have an older Toyota which has a kind of blown transmission so you kind of have to double clutch.

Leo: That is a technique though right?

Tim: It is a technique.

Leo: Do you ever like pull the hand brake at the same time as you.

Tim: See I have an older Suburu with a viscus center, this is getting really technical. It doesn't really work very well in my car because if you pull the hand break it locks it off .

Leo: Well you don't want it to lock no, no, no.

Tim: I have an STI as well and if you pull the hand break on that it disengages the central.

Leo: I am bringing my Mustang, because you could drift in that thing like crazy. 

Tim: There is a 2 wheel drive class, you should come out.

Leo: Is there? 

John: Yeah drive it up to New Hampshire.

Leo: No it's upstate New York.  Why don't they call it Northern New York?

Tim: I don't know.

Leo: They call it Upstate, it should be northern New York. They got Northern Virginia, Northern California.  But no.

John: Nobody says upstate Virginia or upstate California.

Leo: I live in upstate California.  I am going to say that from now on, I am going to start that.

John: You live in central, this is not upstate.

Jolie: Well north New York to me sounds like you are talking about some place in Manhattan. 

Leo: That is uptown, not upstate.

Tim:  Most people think anything north of   is upstate which kind of makes us very irritated upstate.

John: They just like to say up.

Leo: There was kind of a I don't want to say a nutty lady but she was kind of nutty.  She was digitizing, I mean recording not digitizing that's part of the problem.

Jolie: Which lady is this?

Leo: Her name is Maryan Stokes, she used to work in TV news and she got out of it for decades.  She recorded every on air broadcast in her home on a VHS recorder, on several. 

John: How many tapes did she have to buy?

Leo: 40,000 tapes VHS and earlier before that Betamax.

Tim: Do you think she broke all the little tabs out so you couldn't tape over them.

Leo: You want to see what they look like?  They look like exactly what you would think they look like.

Tim: Wrapped in bubble wrap.

Jolie: Oh Man that takes me back.  That looks like high school to me.

Leo: Here is News, Saturn pictures from August, 81.

John: So she is an archivist.

Leo: Some might call it that, some might call it a hoarder. 

John: I would say because it is organized it is archiving. Big difference.

Leo: I am sure she considered it archiving, absolutely. 

John: What is the criticism of her?

Leo: There is no criticism, I have no criticism.

John: She did the world a favor.

Leo: Well in fact, the internet archives thinks exactly that.  They have started digitizing all 40,000 tapes in the internet archives.  So you are going to see 60 episodes of Input.  That is the name of the program.  You’re going to see local news, you’re going to see...

Tim: The computer chronicles maybe?

Leo: Yeah sure why not.  In fact the computer chronicles are already on the internet archive in complete form.  Stewart Chafee, we actually interviewed him on Triangulation. He got those tapes to the internet archive and they got them all up there.  It is fun, John's on one of them.

John: Ah, yes I'll bet it is a classic.

Leo: You were took apart a computer and couldn't put it back together?

John: No I could put it back together but it wasn't as easy as it looked.  Besides that the thing was meant to be taken apart and meanwhile Chafee is worried sick because I think he has to return it or something as I pull this thing into pieces.

Leo: It's fun to watch those classics, I tell you.

John: I had hair.

Leo: We should have had you on that episode with Stewart.  That was a lot of fun to talk with him.

John: I don't think he ever liked me.

Leo: Well we talked about you during the interview.

John: Yeah and he said that guy.  Something like that.

Leo: No he said it, I think he said it with affection. 

John: Uh huh, yeah. 

Leo: You had those big aviator glasses.

John: They were popular in the 70's. 

Leo: The internet archive estimates about half a million dollars to digitize these tapes.  They are going to try and raise that money if you want to help them out  There is another guy we interviewed who is wonderful.  Bruster Kale.

John: Kale.

Leo: I love him and I love his mission.

John:  I love his vegetables.

Leo: He said, Kale-oh I get it.  You know what he said copyright be damned basically.  Libraries don't ask what is the copyright of the material we are collecting. We are a library, we are going to collect everything we are going to download all the pages, we are going to save it all and it is going to be a treasure trove for historians going forward and I am not going to worry about the copyright.

John: Nobody has sued him.

Leo: Nobody has, nope, nobody has.

John: You know the problem is, I have become a Kindle user because you can read so fast on a Kindle Paper White you can double your reading speed.

Leo: Really?

John: The thing is astonishing.  So one of the things I like to do is read these classics, many of them are in public domain.  So you can get them either the Gutenberg Project or if they don't have them there you go to the where they have been digitized.  Horrible unreadable, sorry. 

Leo: That is one of the problems because of course technology is constantly improving in the early days a lot of these techniques weren't so good.

John:  The thing with Gutenberg Project they took these kinds of scans and they had people edit the whole thing so you have a book that is really well made.  You can put it on a mobi-file, you can put it on your Kindle, you can read it.

Leo: They have free ones on Amazon too but they are pretty bad too.  The Gutenberg ones are definitely much better than the average.

John: The Gutenberg ones are good, but they don't have everything.  So I am bitching about that for no reason. 

Leo: Apparently Facebook is the source of news for a fast percentage of Americans.  30% of adults get their news on Facebook.  64% of adult Americans use Facebook.  This is from the Pew Survey, they've been doing this great research on the internet and the American life.  They released a report on Wednesday, 50% of social network users share or repost stories.  Almost half share or repost stories, images or videos.  You know that from @dvorak/blog that people like to reshare that stuff.

Jolie: But how much of it is absolute bull crap?

Leo: Oh all of it.

John: Yeah most of it.

Jolie:  I saw one going around the other day that was absolutely false and all the people I knew who had posted had to go back and say I am sorry this was a scam it was a hoax, blah blah blah.

Leo: So what.

John: Yeah we are living in a scam, hoax world.

Leo: It is all a fair tail.

Jolie:  I miss the days of verified media.

Leo: Oh yeah you think it was accurate?

John: When was that?

Leo: Yeah really!

Jolie: More accurate.

John: It was before you were born.

Jolie: No, I worked at a newspaper.  In 1999 that's when I started my career in media and I worked at a weekly thank you very much.

John: A weekly!

Jolie: A weekly, we took our time.

Leo: Did you have a facto checker?

John:  Weren't those called shoppers?

Jolie: No, Go home.

Leo: Did you have a fact checker?  Yes thank you Jolie I have been trying to tell him that for years.

Jolie: You to Leo.

Tim: This comes 10 years ago after a study showed 21% of people under 30 got their news from the Daily show.  I remember that coming out.

Leo: Is this better or worse?

Jolie: That was a moment in time for sure. 

Leo: Well one thing that Facebook has done and I think its bothering brands a little bit.  They keep changing their algorithm, refining it algorithm and what makes it into your news feed.  And now it turns out that all these brands that spent all this money building all these likes, most of the stuff is not getting into people’s news feeds.  So if you are Coca-cola and you spent millions building a Facebook page and then getting millions of likes.  You would hope that everything that you post would at least be seen by people who liked you.  Very little of it is, a small fraction of it is.  I think brands are starting to get a little miffed by this.

Jolie: It just means that they have to post more.  That is what we are finding out at the internet website. 

Leo: Are you really?  Are you studying the importance and impact of the social internet?

Jolie: Oh my gosh, that has been my mission as manager editor to figure out how to make Facebook work for us better.  The more we post the more we get engagement and click through, and get to talk with not just with our Facebook fans.  So we post every 10, 15 minutes during the week.

Leo: What percentage of your stories are making it to people's newsfeed?  Are all of them making it to people’s news feeds?

Jolie: Well we get engagements metrics and every fan doesn't see every story obviously.  That would be annoying.  But more people are seeing them.

Leo: But it feels like, doesn't it seem like, I think of Facebook like I think of Twitter.  When I follow somebody on Twitter I will see 100% of what they post on Twitter.

Jolie:  Isn't that awful though?

Leo: But do you want Facebook or Twitter or somebody else to choose which of the posts that you see?

Jolie: Someone is going to have to choose at some point.  It can't be just you going through a string of garbage to find the 3 things you actually want to read.

Leo: Well no I follow my family, I follow my close friends and I want to see all of their posts and maybe a brand or 2.  I really like Wendy's burgers and I would want to see all of those posts.

John: What, you really like Wendy's burgers so you

Jolie: No he likes the advertising, remember.

Leo: No they're square.  Well whatever.  I am just saying maybe there is a brand you like that you would like to see what they post.  I mean there are a few like Levenger.

John: Really, like what?

Leo: The Levenger catalog, I like what they post.

John: Who is Levenger?

Leo: Oh you don't know about that?  It is a readers catalog.  It is great, they got the pens, they got desks, they got cloths, it is great.  Steve Levean founded it, it is a friend of mine.

John: A friend of yours.  How come he is not advertising on TWIT network.

Leo: I have begged him to buy ads and he will not do it.  Anyway if I liked them on Facebook.  Because I like pens, I have a pen fetish.  You probably do to.

John: Don't you think this Like thing is a little ridiculous?  Click I like.

Leo: What is wrong with that?

John: It's idiotic.

Leo: Its engagement.  Don't you want Likes?

Jolie:  No

Leo: NO!  What does Venture Beat want?

John: Venture Beat wants likes

Jolie: Readers.

Leo: They want shares.

Jolie: No we want readers.  We want readers.

John: They want page views.

Leo: You want people to click a link to go to your site and see it.

Jolie: Yeah, and learn something.

Leo: How well does Facebook work for you on that?

Jolie: Very.

Tim: The trick is to have them, if you want readers, you don't want somebody to click that link and go away and never come back again.  The trick is to convert them to come back to your site again.

Jolie: Right we need them to  stay viewers, yeah yeah.

Tim: That is difficult to do with social media.

Jolie: We play that long game.  Do a lot of really good reporting and have people feel like they get something smart and original every time. 

Leo: That's what we do, we try to make good content and trust that people will like it and engage with it.

Jolie: Why am I here?

Leo: Because you are good content.

John: Your being exploited. 

Leo: O definitely, but I have exploited you for years.

John: I know the numbers go way up when I am on.

Leo: You see you get a value, it’s a mutual benefit.

John: Jolie and Dvorak combination, boom it is a winner!

Leo: go there read their stories.  Don't read it on Facebook read it at  There are cupcakes. 

Jolie: There are always cupcakes at Venture Beat.

Tim: The problem with Facebook is it is single stream more or less.  I mean got this thing on the right that gives you what is going on but by in large you got this one shot right down the middle.

Leo: Well so is Twitter.

Tim:  Not for me, I use Tweet deck. I don't know for you.  I have 5 seperate columns going of different things. 

Leo: That's because you use Tweet deck.

Tim: Right, and I can't do that on Facebook.  I can't create different columns or different things.

Jolie: Well there is a business opportunity there.

Tim: There is, absolutely.

John: I need 50,000 new Twitter followers.

Leo: Why?

John: Because somebody asked and that is the number I have decided on.

Jolie: Well can't you just buy them?

John: I am not buying my followers.  I think it is wrong.

Jolie: How many do I have?

Leo: I think my followers, I think most of them are spammers. 

Jolie: Mine are all Trolls.

John: I found a website and you can look it up and it will give you the spam number.

Tim: Really!

Jolie: What is this internet website?

Leo: Status, chatroom will know because they told me earlier.

Tim: I am curious about this too.

John: Yeah let's check it out.  I checked it out earlier, mine is 30% but most are 50.

Leo: Probably 30 to 50%.  I have never understood how that works on Twitter.  You create, I don't understand.

John: There are a bunch of Asians in India and south Asia and all over there.

Leo: Like this guy, my newest follower, Kengi Hyoshi2

Jolie: Yeah him.

John: Probably.

Tim: In chat by the way is saying you can buy him cheap if you like. 

Leo: Well they are very cheap.

John: Well I will buy a bunch of cheap ones.

Leo: I think a lot of these people are fake.  What is the website, chatroom, do you remember? 

Tim: They are failing us.


Leo:Fakers that's  it. Oh they want you to subscribe.

Tim: Oh I don't know that I want to subscribe. 

Leo: You can do 3 people for free or something like that.

Tim: Oh did we take it down?

Jolie: This is, Go to

Leo: Is that what Aaron is buying?  Aaron is using that?

Jolie: He has it, yeah. No, No no I don't know who you are talking about.

Leo: By the way we just about brought down.

Jolie: God I hope he is not  listening.

John: Of course he is listening. 

Jolie: Why would he be listening?  He has to listen to me 24/7 why would he be tuned in for more of that.

Leo: You talk all the time?

Jolie: When I am not talking I am singing.

John: You’re singing?

Leo: She's a rock star.

John: You’re walking around the house singing?

Leo: She didn't tell you the reason she dropped out of school was to be a rock star.

Jolie: Yeah and the little blue birds follow me and squirrels do my chores.

Leo: I almost believe that actually.  I can just see that happening.  Alright we are going to wrap this thing up.  Are you trying to find, oh he is authorizing it and he is going to see, it is too hard.  It's two factor. Tumbler added two factor.  Everybody should use two factor.

John: What is two factor?

Tim: It is more than one factor.

Leo: Well you have your password and then they will send you a text.

Jolie: It is a pain in the behind.

John: Oh I have a great suggestion for everybody find one simple short password like 5 letters and use it for everything.  It works.

Leo: It makes it so much easier. 

Jolie: I like 12345

Leo: monkey123 is my favorite.

Tim: I don't know my Twitter password apparently so it isn't going to work.

Leo: It is such a pain in the butt.

Tim: I will just assume they are all real wonderful loving people who follow me on Twitter.

Leo: Alright we will wrap it up.  A week from Tuesday it is XPmaggedon, XP paloosa, XP maggedon I haven't come up with a catchy phrase yet. April 8th is the last day for Windows XP, Microsoft ending the life of that.

John: Did you read my column where I think Microsoft made a huge mistake.

Leo: I did read that column.

John: You could make billions of dollars supporting it.

Leo: It is a business opportunity.

John: Just for the ATM Machines you don't need to for the public. Screw the public they don't need to use XP.  But you got all these ATM machines that are using XP.  You know some banker is going to say, don't you think we should upgrade.  They are going to upgrade the entire ATM system, that is working to God knows what. It is going to go down and it is going to be a huge mess.

Leo: To something that is much worse. 

John: A complete disaster.

Leo: I don't think they are going to upgrade.  In fact Steve says this, I don't think the ATM's are a problem because they aren't surfing the web opening, emails, clicking links and instant messenger.  Not doing the things that are dangerous.  Presumably they are fairly locked down.  I am not so much worried about that, I am much more worried about the half billion kind of unsophisticated XP users.  And it is almost a half a billion.  Who probably won't patch, they won't do the right thing as a limited users.

John: No and then they will say Gee my machine is slow. 

Leo: Yeah because it is sending Spam to 8,000 people today.  So what do you think, XplosionXpration?

John: Xpration I think that is it.

Leo: Alright Jeffrey Needles you win the prize.  I am going to send you my left sock. 

John: After he wears it for a week. 

Leo: Xpired

John: Xpired.

Leo: Are we worried about that.  Oh there we go, how many fake followers does OMG have? 9% Fake, 54 Inactive, 37% Good.  That is about right, most people are a third good.

Jolie: Really ?!

John: That is about right, yeah.  If you are lucky.

Tim: Is that good in the Santa Clause sense.

Jolie:  This is a publicly traded company.

John: 50cent stock.

Jolie: Lord have mercy on us all.

Leo: Ladies and Gentleman I thank you so much for stopping by.  I really want to thank Jolie O'dell for being here, from  She is the managing editor, congratulations.

Jolie: Nomastea.

Leo: Nomastea, the geek in me recognizes the geek in you or the cupcake whatever.  By the way, thank you for the cupcakes.  We are going to hand those out to our lovely audience.

John: Did you make these cupcakes yourself?

Jolie: Yes I did.

Leo: Just the right amount.

Jolie: With the birds and the squirrels.

John: Wow she makes her own cupcakes. 

Leo: Watch out for that Mike O'donnell guy he will take two.

Jolie: Please do. 

Leo: John C.Dvorak, channeldvorak,, great to have you as always.

John: It is always a pleasure Leo.

Leo: Thank you, John.

Jolie: That is the nicest thing he said the whole show.

Leo: So funny.

John: Not funny.

Leo: Tim it is great to see you in person.  Thank you for being out here and Amanda.

Tim: It is good to be here.

Leo: Is that your wife's name?

Tim: That is my wife's name, still.

John: You don't use the name and then ask.

Leo: Good to have you both, good luck with the ice racing.

Tim: Thank you, Thanks very much.

Leo: Have fun at Build.

Tim: I will.

Leo: Come by anytime, if you are still in town just come back up, anytime.  We're all the time.  Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for being here.  We do TWIT every Sunday afternoon 3p.m. Pacific time, 6p.m. Eastern time, that is 2200 UTC.

John: Now weekly.

Leo: Now weekly so there is no reason to miss it.  If you don't get to see it live you can always get it on demand, audio or video version after the fact.

John: Can I mention something.  If anybody comes into Pedaluma to watch the show live.  Come in a little earlier and go down streets, there is a guitar shop in this town. 

Leo: Great place.

Jolie: Which on Talltoad?

Leo: Talltoad, very good.  You know it?

Jolie: Yeah.

John: It is unbelievable.

Jolie: Its really top shelf stuff.

John: There must be a million guitars in there.

Leo: How do you guys know about it?

Jolie: Because we're the cool kids.

Leo: I guess so.

Tim: I didn't know about it.

Leo: I thought that was our little local secret.  There is a great Suburu dealership though.

Tim: Oh I am hitting that on the way out.  I need a new bumper for my Suburu so that is perfect.

Leo: So I hear.  I do wish you will tune in on Wednesday.  We are going to have a jammed packed Wednesday.  We will start with coverage in the morning of.

John: In the morning?!

Leo: In the morning. What is it in the morning, is it 8:30, when are we doing our live coverage?  Very early of something. 

Voice: Amazon Desktop Video.

Leo: Oh yeah I didn't get to talk about this was a very interesting scoop from Jessica Lessons.  The information that Amazon might be launching.  And I think they will.  A streaming video service.  They already have Amazon Prime.  They bought a European service some years ago which they have started to turn into basicly a Netflix like service.  I think this is going to go beyond it.  I am very intrigued with what they are going to do.

Jolie: Didn't they directly deny it?  Not that we comment on speculation and rumors they just said no this is not.

Leo: Well we will find out, 8:30 in the morning on Wednesday.  We're going to cover the announcement because I feel like it is going to be something big.  I will be very disappointed if it is like another Kindle or something.

Tim: We are expecting a hardware streamer.  I think that is like a Chromecast kind of thing.  But I do think we could see a commercial based streaming service.  There really aren't that many players out there that give you premium video with commercials.  I mean Youtube is doing some of that stuff for sure, Hulo of course.  But there really aren't that many.  That is sort of the model that has worked for everybody when it comes to streaming audio.  All these people launched premium audio services thinking that people are going to pay monthly and then we will also give them the commercial based service, just to give them a taste.  But everybody does the commercial stuff because they don't want to pay for it.  It is an interesting opportunity for Amazon, I think for sure.

John: How about this for a prediction?  4K.

Leo: yeah I wouldn't be surprised. Netflix is going to do it.  That will be something to watch.  Then later in the day 11a.m. Pacific, 2p.m. Eastern time.  Our hang out with Vince Serf the Father of the internet.  That should be very interesting.  Our Build coverage will continue on Friday with Mary Jo Foley and Paul Thurrott in studio.  A special edition of Windows Weekly Friday afternoon between 1 and 4.  This week a very big week ahead.  Where did Chad run off to John?  He had to take care of some business.

John: He is in the bathroom.

Leo: He had to see a man about a dog.  Do people say that? A horse?

Jolie: No we say Aaron has to take a very important business meeting.

Leo: Poor Aaron so much has been revealed about him.

John: Poor Aaron.  He is going to be steamed when she gets back. 

Leo: Now I know why on every previous episode he's been with you to keep you company.

John: He is here to keep an eye on her. 

Jolie: Well see I say these things.  They just come right out.

Leo: That's my excuse.  That is what I say.  I don't have an impulse control.

John: Control mechanism.

Leo: I lack impulse control. 

John: That is your excuse.

Leo: It is my weak cerebral cortex.

Jolie: Well we are more entertaining when we just let it flow.

Leo: I think that is true.  Let it fly.

John: It is all about entertaining, Ladies and Gentleman. 

Leo: Thanks for joining us; we will see you next time!  Another TWIT is in the can. 

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