Untitled Linux Show 153 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Hey folks, this week we talk about the KDE 6.1 beta which, along with the NVIDIA 555 drivers and MESA 24.1, brings something of a holy trinity of new features, including explicit sync and, hopefully, the end to your NVIDIA woes on Wayland. Then there's some Linux 6.10 news Handbrake with support for the brand new FFMPEG 7.0. We talk about MX Linux, we talk about Ventoy, we talk about Pipewire, and then we talk about Windows and pseudo copilot and Windows recall, which is sort of a mixed bag. You don't want to miss it, so stay tuned.

00:43 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Podcasts you love from From people you trust. This is Twit.

00:51 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
This is the Untitled Linux Show, episode 153, recorded Saturday, may 25th. One last request hey folks, it is Saturday and you know what that means. It is time to get geeky about Linux and open source and all kinds of fun stuff. It is, it's the Untitled Linux Show. It is, of course, not just me. We've got Ken and we've got Jeff. Today, the, the, the partial crew, the crew minus one, had a couple of, a couple of. Well, one, one of our co-hosts was under the weather today and the other had some obligations to deal with, and so it is the three of us left. But that's all right, we're going to have fun together and we've got some great stories for you to dive into. Let's see. I think Jeff is up first with coverage of a beta. What beta are we talking about?

01:42 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, we keep talking about KDE 6 and some things coming in 6.1. Well, 6.1 just got a lot closer as the beta was released. I have two articles linked in the show notes going over the details of what's coming and what features just made what made the cut to get included in 6.1. So it's kind of it's kind of like a almost like a pull request for the kernel where it has a certain amount of time to hit the beta and once the beta is released, then those features, unless they're really really important, are going to hit 6.2. But back to 6.1, one of the big features is GPU synchronization. Now, this is going to be especially helpful to those on Team Green, but also Team Red as well, but mostly Team Green, and I'm going to quote Nate Graham in this, and he said to explain what this is In a nutshell. It allows apps to tell a composter when to display frames on the screen, reducing latency and graphical glitches. The effect should be particularly noticeable with NVIDIA GPUs, which only support this rendering style, and not having support for it on Wayland was one of the most common sources of random graphical glitches and slowdowns. So that should make 6.1 a lot better for NVIDIA. Make 6.1 a lot better for NVIDIA, though. You know I ran 6.0 for a while on Fedora, not seen any problems, but you know, hopefully nobody else will either. They also have for smoother animations. Triple buffering made the cut and it should make animations and screen rendering smoother, and the thought is ideally, anyway it'll have it up to X11 standards. Now X11 does triple buffer already, so we should have parity here now with rendering smoothly.

03:41
Flat pack support also gets some love as well, as by fixing a bug in KWallet that would cause it not to work in flat pack apps. So if you had like a saved password or something that would cause issues, that should be a thing of the past now. Also, when Discover launches and you're scrolling through long app lists, it's much more responsive now while the flat pack backend is running. It's much more responsive now while the flat pack back end is running. They've also added a shake cursor to find it effect. Plasma now has the ability to keep the backlight color in sync with the active accent color on laptops with RGB backlit keyboards. I know a little controversial, but Snap's got some love too. Now by being able to manually update them. In Plasma Discover you could also hide your cursor after a period of no activity with a new setting. So you know whenever you're maybe watching something after a while you can make your cursor go away when you aren't actually doing anything. In system settings they've added a new remote desktop page which allow you to configure your RDP remote logins. So now you don't have to go to a different program or something, it's all in your settings. X Wayland apps have received some support and in this one they fixed the bug where if you had a laptop with the lid closed and connected to an external monitor and you turn that external monitor off, it would cause K-Win to crash. That has been fixed so to be a smoother interaction for those of you that like to run external displays. That's just a fraction of the items fixed and added to the 6.1 beta.

05:23
There is a link in the articles to the actual change log and just kind of a status. In this release there are three very high priority bugs, which is the same as there was last week. There's 36 15-minute bugs and, if you don't remember, these are the bugs that a new user would run into in the first 15 minutes of using KDE. Remember, these are the bugs that a new user would run into in the first 15 minutes of using KDE and it's down from 39 from the week before and overall for the last week, 105 bugs were fixed. So sometimes those numbers don't seem like they're moving that much, but they are actually making very good progress and putting a lot more polish into the system. And putting a lot more polish into the system.

06:03
Take a look at the two articles linked in the show notes for full details and links, like I said, to the change log, which will give you every detail of what happened. There's a lot of small little bugs that got squished and there are working on the critical ones as well, but all levels of bugs are getting chased down and eradicated. So the list is quite long. But you know what? I just can't wait till 6.1 rolls out. I want to, I really want to try it on the Debian side.

06:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, makes sense. I think it's not. It's not in Fedora yet either. Somebody was actually asking in one of the chat rooms I'm a part of do you guys actually do you publish this anywhere so that we could get to it ahead of time? And the? Uh, the answer was well, there's this copper, which is the equivalent of a ppa. We sometimes update that. You can probably run that, um, but yeah, there's some neat stuff, particularly for for nvidia on wayland. Um, it is uh sort of encouraging to see that continue to get better and more polished and less broken, because it was very broken for a long time and and I'm there's a.

07:11 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
There's kind of a second part to that that I'm going to cover in my second story, so I'll just throw that little teaser out.

07:16 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yep, yep and noticing that there's a lot of the explicit sync support showing up all over the place lately.

07:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I have a story about that, too, here in just a minute. So, yeah, it is definitely something that is being worked on. It's like everybody got together and said, hey, this is the way we want to do it, and maybe what happened.

07:39 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Yeah, all aligned. Imagine that.

07:40 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, that's kind of nice Wish that would happen more often. Exactly, let's chat about Handbrake, then we're going to come back to this. We'll get back to the video drivers and all of that here in just a minute. But first up, ken has a story about Handbrake.

07:55 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, and this is coming from Marius Nestor. He wrote about the latest update to our favorite video transcoder application, as Jonathan mentioned, handbrake, and this is going to be updated to version 1.8. Actually, it's already updated. I've been playing with it a little bit this week. This major update finally brings a GTK4 port of the user interface for Linux users, as well as numerous other new features and improvements, also for Linux users.

08:28
Handbrake 1.8 updates the open source button to make the folder or batch mode more discoverable, updates many of the existing language translations, fixes miscellaneous bugs and adds various other smaller improvements. For a better experience With Handbrake 1.8, you'll find it's introducing the support for the FFV1 encoder, along with a new preservation FFV1 preset under the professional category, support for multi-pass CQ with VP9, support for VP9 tunes and Dolby Vision dynamic metadata pass-through for the SVT-AV1. It also adds VP9 and black muxing support in the MP4 container, a true HD encoder, support for 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192 kHz sample rates for true HD and FLAC encoders and adds support for my favorite, ffmpeg version 7.0. Mirror Aurora, you will be happy to hear. This release removes timestamp jitters in the MP4 container when using a constant NTSC frame rate. Marius article links to Hamburg's release notes if you want more details about the changes and all the updated libraries in it. Your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to find out which library is removed from this version.

10:15 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Somebody has been ripping a mission impossible DVDs recently. I see.

10:20 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Or just watching old episodes.

10:21 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I am impressed that they have already rolled out FFmpeg-7 Dijkstra support, Because that only came out like April 5th. We're less than a month into FFmpeg-7, the final release. Obviously there were some betas and stuff before that, but that's pretty quick work for the handbrake guys, so good for them. They are obviously staying on top of things.

10:46 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm impressed with that program.

10:51 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
So anybody are going to be re-ripping anything with the latest one.

10:56 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Probably not. I can't really imagine why I would need to, unless you had something that just particularly did not rip. Well, uh, you could come come back and try it with the latest one. I suppose that's the thing every once in a while, but I don't imagine that there's going to be, other than that there's not going to be a huge difference um, and I, I have some pretty good drives, so I store everything, uh, non-compressed or just the original.

11:27 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
You have some pretty good drives imagine that so you've got room to just rip the iso and store that alongside the uh well, I mean, you're most.

11:42 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Most programs now will just play back the iso2, for that matter yeah, I uh, so I I just rip it and it's.

11:51 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I don't remember off the top of my head whether it's mpk, I think is what it's, the format it stores it in, and mkv no or mkv. Sorry, you're right. You're right, and I send it, at least in my household. I don't even compress it or transcode it down. I use Plex and I just throw as much data as I can at my hardware. Now, if I'm outside my house I do transcode it down, some because of my bandwidth, but I try to get the highest quality I can in home.

12:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Makes sense.

12:27 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's the way to go, I may have to re-rip to get some of the to go for the ultra high definition or 4K, since most of the stuff was originally ripped for HT or 1080p. Yeah, most of the stuff I do that's not 4K, since most of the stuff was originally ripped for HT or 1080p.

12:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, most of the stuff I do that's not 4K Like as a Blu-ray, I have ripped using MakeMKV, which gives you, like what Jeff was talking about, pretty much a disk image, and then everything else. You know those weren't 1080p to start with, so there's not a whole lot more juice to get out of them by re-encode.

13:10 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Speaking of juice, though, yes, yes, I might have to go back and redo my ones that do have the 4K. I just do it at 1080p because I don't have a 4K display.

13:27 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
One of these days, one of these days, jeff is going to get like a nice 4k hdr display and be like it's so amazing I've been missing out for so long. Well, let's chat about mesa, who just had there was just a release mesa 24.1. A couple of interesting things here. One, it is uh continues to jump on that bandwagon of explicit sync. Um, mesa 24.1 brings explicit sync support and one of the uh, one of the particular places where that uh, that is now a thing, is it's in the vulcan drivers and it's also now in some NVIDIA places which we had not had before. And then one of the other really big things with with Mesa 24. One is the NVIDIA NVK Vulcan driver is now considered to be ready for prime time, which it's that's an open source driver for NVIDIA it's. It's good. That's really saying something.

14:28
There's a couple of other interesting things in there, like full OpenGL 4.6 on some devices. Arm Mali GPU support with the PanFrost driver. The Raspberry Pi Broadcom V3DV driver now has dynamic rendering support. Microsoft's Direct3D 12 has some stuff in it that has changed and been enhanced. All kinds of fun stuff. Yeah, yeah, lots of fun things in 24.1. Really kind of playing well together with the things that KDE is doing, and I think we're about to find out the things that NVIDIA is doing on the other side of the pond, the river, the railroad tracks. I don't know what they're on the other side of, but they're on the other side of something.

15:16 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, sometimes NVIDIA is on the other side of a canyon or something, the way they play ball with open source. But now they're kind of building a bridge over that.

15:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, things have changed.

15:27 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Yeah.

15:31 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
You think they're shooting for something in particular with this?

15:36 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
We've talked a little bit about this in the past. Yeah, obviously, Obviously. I mean, as with any business, they are doing what they are doing to try to make money, which usually works out well for everybody. Sometimes it doesn't. In this case, they're doing it for money and it's working out well for us because the things are now becoming open source. I've heard people suggest that maybe NVIDIA wants their hardware to show up in the next Steam something or other. I've heard people suggest that companies like Tesla have said, hey, it would be really nice if we could use open source drivers. It's some combination of things like that Enough.

16:17 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Other big companies have said we would like to write a check to you with a bunch of zeros at the end of it, but man, it's just really hard for us to do with you having terrible open source driver support and I would guess it's probably more like a tesla or something like that, because they are making so much money in the ai right now in the in that market segment, that we're kind of I think gamers at this point are closer to a rounding error than anything else. And AMD doesn't have anything on. I mean, they're coming out with their 8000 series, but it's kind of a refinement of their 7000 series. You know the new architecture is not going to be until the nine. Was it the 9000? That?

17:02 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
sounds about right.

17:04 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So there's always, there's always kind of been this, this thought process. It seems, you know, looking at from the outside, that amd and nvidia, they, they push the gamer as kind of like the bleeding edge of what they can do and there sort of seems to be this feeling that if they can win the gamer market then the other things will follow, like I I'm not sure if this is accurate or not, but it's always kind of been the, just looking at it from the outside, gamers are going to buy, you know, either NVIDIA or AMD for the top end, and that is going to translate to sales in the data center, because I guess the thought is well, obviously it's at the top end and that's what we want in our data center.

17:46 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
That, I guess, the thought is well, obviously it's at the top end and that's what we want in our data center. That seems to be sort of the psychological game that they play. I can see that and I think some of the AI use coming down the pipe is kind of slipping more into the consumer side. So I think they're looking at oh people, we're going to use our consumer level GPUs and whatnot for some of the AI stuff that built into local PCs. And you know there's a lot of companies that say, well, if we're going to do this, we want to have some control over this so we can fix things right away and make things happen right away.

18:15 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Is that going to affect the firmware they'll be using?

18:20 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, that's in my story coming up. Take it away, jeff. Okay, so now a little later than expected. Uh, well, that's in my story coming up. Take it away. Okay. So now a little later than expected. You know it was about a week delay past what we thought, but NVIDIA has released their five 55 beta driver. Uh, not a timer for you, old old school. Uh, people, I get that. Yeah, if you get that reference, you're a true geek. So there are 555 beta drivers now out. The driver supports and we talked about this last story explicit sync. So this is the same as I mentioned in my KDE 6.1 story. So, while KDE now supports it, there's also help on the other side from this driver to make it work. So, like I said, bottom line Wayland should work a lot better for NVIDIA cards with these beta releases. So you'd want to have KDE 6.1 beta and the 555 beta if you want to try cutting edge. And we've talked.

19:21
There's something else here. We've talked about this in the past and said it was coming, but it's now here. The driver will support GSP firmware by default on all of the GPUs that support it. So right now that would be the 20 series, otherwise known as Turing and newer. So GSP is the open source firmware which is in the kernel. So GSP is the open source firmware which is in the kernel. Now, keep in mind things like CUDA and a lot of codecs and things like that are still proprietary because they're in user space. The open sourcing only applies to the kernel stuff. So the installer has changed as well, and now we'll allow users to select at the time of install if people want to use the open source kernel modules or the proprietary modules. So again, this is kernel side, not user space.

20:15
They also added HDMI Now sees a change to 10 bits per component support by default. And one thing that also changes is the minimum kernel version, which was previously 3.10, it now moves to 4.15. Though even 4.15 has been out a while. It was released in January of 2018. It can still be found in Ubuntu 18.04, for example, but I'm not sure how many people are running that old of an OS and would really take advantage of all the features of a 555 beta driver. You know you'd be running fairly modern hardware on a pretty old OS, but I'm sure there's probably some people out there. They've added immediate presentation mode support to the Vulcan Wayland WSI or Windows windowing system integration. This presentation mode instructs the compositors to not wait for a vertical blanking period to update the application surface content, which may result in tearing, so it'll kick into presentation mode without any tearing much faster.

21:26
Many bugs were also fixed, but I'm not going to go over them because there are several that read things such as fixed a bug that would cause the display to lock up when suspending on a kernel with config underscore, frame buffer, underscore, console underscore defer, underscore deferred, underscore takeover enabled with the NVIDIA DRM loaded with mode set equals one and FB dev equals one. So I will leave those fixes to our viewers and listeners to read the change log linked in the articles which you can find in the show notes. That would be a lot of that kind of speak that nobody wants to hear. If you want the driver, you can get it from the official NVIDIA website or you can probably just wait a little bit if your distribution supports install of beta drivers. So just keep in mind I mean, I say it all the time but this is a beta, so don't run it in production or a system. You really want to be stable 100% the time. So just take note I am.

22:31 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I am particularly impressed that, uh, you can now run with the open source kernel drivers. I think that is probably the probably the biggest deal um in this update, the biggest deal that's happened in video in a long time yeah, they're, they're really going all in firmware and modules because I know so.

22:50
I know my, my biggest, my biggest beef with actually running nvidia hardware in the past has been you update the kernel and your system is broken, and somebody that really understands how the nvidia kernel drivers work has to then come and fix it for you. That was my experience, yeah.

23:10 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah, well, and now maybe Does anybody know who's got a Solaris system to try it out with?

23:18 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
All I the Solaris systems I know of were trashed out quite a while ago and and the possible one I can think of that could still be running is running like spark uh CPU and it's not going to support a graphics card and it's, you know, ancient, ancient, old, hardly any.

23:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I you know ancient, ancient, Old, Hardly any Like an. It's not really used anymore.

23:49 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And it's interesting that they're providing the drivers for the Solaris. According to one of the articles, Well, is that?

24:02 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
wasn't there an open Solaris? Wasn't there an open Solaris Because?

24:12 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I know for a while too, you could run Solaris on some x86 hardware. Yeah, there is still open Solaris. Open Solaris is discontinued. Maybe it's.

24:19 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Oracle Solaris oh, it could be.

24:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I bet it's Oracle's Solaris, not one of the open. Yeah, solaris is Oracle's proprietary Unix operating system.

24:38 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
They renamed it 2010.

24:41 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It had a lot of fans, at least for a while, because it was pretty rock solid. Yeah Well, that was Sun's Unix. Yeah, it was pretty rock solid. Yeah well, that was, that was sun. That was sun's unix. Yeah, it was originally sun os.

24:51 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
So they did good work and and that that was the hardware I used was the, the old, uh, it went when it went from sun os to solaris and it was, like I said, spark 5, spark 10s. It was the old, old hardware.

25:10 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah, sun did really good work. Such good work that they set off applications, as well as hardware, that still continue to get from today.

25:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yep.

25:26 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Yep, Well, they were ZFS right.

25:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That's where that came from One of the things. Yeah, that's where LibreOffice came from too OpenOffice With Sun.

25:36 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
OpenOffice VirtualBox and I want to say yep, I was going to say VirtualBox.

25:41 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Lots of stuff. Well, Ken, I think we've got a Linux distro that probably doesn't have much to do with Sun, but that people might want to hear about what's new with MX Linux.

26:03 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Well, Bobby Borisoff and Liam Proven wrote about what's new in MX Linux 23.3. It is built on the Debian 12.5 bookworm base, integrating all the latest updates from both Debian and MX repositories, language selection in OEM mode, Pipewire 1.0, updated manuals and the new MX locale tool. Liam also tried it on an old ThinkPad X220. He said it was installed in about 10 minutes and worked perfectly out of the box. If you want a smaller footprint, I recommend using the XFCE edition, since it is approximately 2.4 gigabytes smaller and takes less RAM than the KDE edition. I do recommend reading Bobby and Liam's articles if you do want all the gory details. By the way, I am doing the podcast from MX Linux 23.3 on Raspberry Pi 5.

27:09 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh, interesting, I did not realize that you were not running the Raspberry Pi OS. Very cool, that's neat.

27:18 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's one of my updates this week, cool.

27:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I've got to say with Pipewire 1.0, though they're getting behind, we're about to have a Pipewire 1.2.

27:31 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
And so far, so good Ken.

27:33 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yep, and apparently trying to do this along with pushing out is more against my bandwidth than against the Raspberry Pi 5.

27:47 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, it seems like it. Now I see here that MX Linux uses the Licorix kernel, which that's your kernel, with some extra patches on top of it. Some of them make sense, some of them people will disagree about, but I'm curious how that works with running on ARM. Well, actually it's showing the kernel for ARM. They'll disagree about, but I'm curious how that works with running on arm some of those.

28:05
Actually it's showing the kernel for arm is 6.6.28 plus rpt-rpi-2712 for the arm architecture 64-bit so that actually sounds like they're running the Raspberry Pi kernel on that one, which makes sense. It's got all of the Raspberry Pi foundations, tweaks and fixes specific to the Pi, so interesting.

28:34 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And all I had to do was, in my case, run sudo Nala upgrade. Nala was installed by default with it when I originally installed it. Interesting. Hmm, if you read the article, you'll find Bobby recommends just doing pseudo update, then pseudo upgrade.

29:01 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Hmm, interesting, I alluded to it. Shall we talk for a minute about the new Pipewire that's coming?

29:12 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I'm all ears.

29:12 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I'm more than happy to hear what I'm missing out on.

29:16 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
There's a couple of cool things. So Pipewire 1.1 is what is out, and if you're one of the cool kids running something like Fedora 40, that's what you're running. Um, I think I'm a cool kid when I'm turned around use the computer behind me, but probably not so cool when I'm using this one. I think it's still on 1.0. Anyway, there have been a couple of. Are they release candidates? I believe they're release candidates that have come out with 1.2. And there's some interesting things in here. Notably, what I found as I was looking through is improvements for Jack, some things about making different sound sources that are not synced together play nicer, which you know. That's always one of your problems. When all of your sound sources, your inputs and your outputs, are supposed to be synced and one of them lags behind, what do you do? Well, the solution in the past has been make the entire system lag behind. Well, with the new Pipewire, it has the option to say I don't care so much about this one If it lags behind, just go on and let it catch up. Essentially, um, so that sounds, that sounds pretty interesting. Um, and then there is also what?

30:28
Yeah, one of the new things that is in the latest RC is uh, snapcast. Snapcast servers support for discovering and streaming to snapcast, which this is not something I was super familiar with, but I got to looking into it and I think it's something I need to mess with. Um, it is the idea of streaming live audio to multiple endpoints to be able to do something like, you know, whole house audio, and I've got some raspberry pies sprinkled liberally throughout the house and I've thought for a while that I ought to try to do something like this. Well, I think the time may be now, and the way that I'm probably going to do this to start with is something like Bluetooth speakers that are Bluetooth to the Raspberry Pis and then just set Snapcast on them, and then you can either run something like MPD, the music player daemon, or now you can use the computer running pipewire 1.2 and just blast it out across the network and do live streaming to your snapcast servers on running. In my case it's going to be raspberry pis, so that, uh, that really sounds pretty interesting to me. I am looking forward to playing with that.

31:41
Of course, there's the rest of the normal sort of things that you would expect to see in an update. I mentioned asynchronous processing. They've fixed errors. They've added support for mandatory metadata. They've you know, all kinds of things, all kinds of things people have found. They've added snap support. All kinds of things, all kinds of things people have found. They've added Snap support. If that's something you care about, yeah, all kinds of fun stuff coming in Pipewire 1.2.

32:15 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Definitely looking forward to that Snap support.

32:19 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I mean it'll be useful for certain things, for sure especially if you've got obs downloaded as a snap that'd be one of those things and I'll say people didn't realize we had a live studio audience uh, yeah, fun stuff in here.

32:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, if nobody has any more to say about that, we can talk about the rather interesting change to Linux 6.10.

32:50 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
There's a lot in 6.10, but this is not one of the technical things, is it? No, this one's. So this story is a little different than our normal pull request stories. Normally we talk about new features which are going to be added into the kernel or talk about things being removed because they're being deprecated. Now I think there are several who know the story of the Rezor file system, but if you don't, here's a small recap.

33:13
Hans Rezor developed a file system which had many features and which was kind of ahead of its time or, you know, you could at least argue was pretty cutting edge. Some, some of the features were only found in operating system, or in operating systems or that you had to pay for, and they weren't accessible to the open source crowd. Well, hans was then convicted of murdering his wife and was sent to prison for a very long time. Since he was in prison, and because of the bad connotation to the file system, it languished. For the most part there was some development, but other file systems picked up features it had and have surpassed it. So today the research file system isn't as special as it used to be and because of that it's been decided to remove it from the kernel. There were some other technical reasons too, but long story short, it doesn't make sense to be there anymore, and they're just decided to get rid of it. And if you still needed it, it still can be used in the future, but it'll have to be loaded from user space and not built into the kernel. Use in the future, but it'll have to be loaded from user space and not built into the kernel. So in January, though, hans wrote letters that he wanted to be made public, which apologized for social mistakes and other things. There is also a link to those letters in the article in the show notes, but that's not the main thing we're going to talk about today when it comes to Linux.

34:41
There was a last request from Hans about his file system in the kernel, which is going to get deprecated, and I quote this is from Hans, assuming that the decision is to remove the riser file system version three from the kernel. I have just one request that for one last release, the read me be edited to add Mikhail Gilua, constantine shark, shako, shako Sorry, I'm murdering those and Thala, and totally pin Chuck to the credits, and to delete anything in there that I might've said about why they were not credited. It's time to let go. So it was his statement. Um Sousa's, jan, cara or Yon, I don't know which which pronunciation he has uh, has made the changes he requested and removed the negative language. So what is being removed from the read me? And this is straight from the read me, which is where what they're removing?

35:50
Constantine, with the help of the Russian version of a VC, tried to put me in a position where I was forced into giving control of the project to him. Vc is venture capital. For those that didn't know, fortunately, as the person paying the money for all the salaries from my day job, I owned all copyrights and you can't really force takeovers of sole proprietorships. This was something curious, because he never really understood the value of our project, why we should do what we do, why innovation was possible in general, but he was sure that he ought to be controlling it. Every innovation had to be forced past him while he was still with us. He added two years to the time required to complete Razor file system and was a net loss for me. Mikkel was a brilliant innovator who also left in a destructive way. That erased the value of his contributions, and that he was shown much generosity just makes it more painful. So all that was removed and added to the readme file, or just two lines. Constantine was taking part in the early days and Mikhail was a brilliant innovator that has shown much generosity, so he gives credit to both of those people for what they contributed and they removed all the negative.

37:17
As far as the colonel's concerned, that's pretty much the end of the Razer file system, since the decision to remove it from the upcoming kernels is done and it will happen. Personally, I have not used the file system, so I won't miss it, and it wasn't something used by many for the last several years. At one time there was a distribution using it, but that was a long time ago and they've long since switched out. So I think it's going to fade away quietly. But if nothing else, it was nice to see a couple people get the credit they deserve. I will add that in the comments people were like how did those kind of comments get in there? Well, it was long enough ago that it was. The colonel was a little more of the wild west back then, so some stuff like that kind of snuck in and uh, not, it's not something you'd see today, but it was nice. He corrected it anyway yeah I.

38:17 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I have to say it's sort of a, a nice, um nice completed.

38:25
Yeah, it's a good gesture, yeah to to sort of clear this, clear this away before it goes out of the kernel altogether. Um yep. I can't help but read this, though, and think about what happened to XZ, the back door. Now I have no reason to think that either Constantine or Mikhail were bad actors, but if someone is acting very weird in your open source project, they may be bad actors. So don't just blindly follow the example of Reaser here and bury everything you know. Put everything under the bridge, bury everything under the carpet. At the same time, though, this seems like this was just a series of misunderstandings and disagreements, and not anyone being a bad actor, but I just in reading what he wrote here.

39:18 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I cannot read it and not think about xc well, kind of devil's advocate here, though hans was not really the nicest person and had a lot of yes, yes, no this is true issues, and I mean just outside of what he was convicted for. He was kind of known for being pretty uh, my way, or the highway, maybe is a good way to put it or very he he was. He was an interesting character soft controlling yeah, he didn't have great soft skills.

39:51
yes, yeah, so it well, and he actually that's one in some of his letters he talked about. He has learned to communicate in prison. He has learned to discuss things when he previously would have just got upset and blown up, and it's honestly old enough. I didn't you know who knows at this point, without doing a lot of research.

40:16 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yep Indeed Indeed. It's just what comes to mind when I read it wait for the movie yeah, yeah at one time they were.

40:27 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
They were working on a movie. I want to say now it might have been a tv movie, but they were. I don't know whatever happened to that.

40:36 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
No, it does not seem like a good idea.

40:40 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
If it was after the uh OJ Simpson movie, I can understand why.

40:47 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That doesn't seem like a good idea either.

40:50 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Oh, that was made Uh what's interesting that you didn't cover, though, is uh, how many lines of uh code's going to be dropped from the kernel with 6.10?

41:04 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
oh, how do you have that? Do you have the number? Do you have the magic number, ken?

41:07 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
well, according to michael larabelle, 19 000 lines of code with uh staging um 600, 6.10 staging dropping broken and unused drivers.

41:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, always good to see the cruft get swept away and done away with.

41:28 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, and I want to say there was something too about they were working on version 4, but it wasn't compatible with 3. So you'd have to totally format your drives over and there was no conversion tool and it was kind of one of those that, and I know historically we said that you know ZFS, uh, ext four, a lot of them picked up like the journaling that it did, because it did journaling when a lot of other file systems didn't and it, you know it, kind of lost its way.

41:59 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Indeed, I think probably next week we will come back around and look at sort of what the new stuff is in 6.10. Just didn't pick it up for this week. I don't think the merge window is quite closed yet, so it's not really time to do all of that. We do have one of our favorite tools one of my favorite tools at least. Ken has the update on Ventoy. What is going on there, Ken?

42:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Well, thanks to Bobby Borisoff, I found out about the latest release of Ventoy, version 1.0.98. According to Bobby, the key update is an overhaul of the EFI boot files, a vital component for the software's functionality across different hardware platforms. This ensures that users benefit from a smoother and more reliable booting process when using USB drives created with Ventoy. Now, ventoy 1.0.98 also addresses not recognizing EXT4 file systems created using the latest version of the gparted partition editor and booting issues specific to the latest Arch Linux builds. Jonathan, you will be happy to hear, this update resolves a bug affecting the vtoy underscore Linux underscore remount feature on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 9 and some of its clones.

43:28 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So the most embarrassing moment I've ever had in my IT career was because of Ventoy, and it was my fault, of course of Ventoy. And it was my fault of course. I had broken my Fedora install and to fix it I pulled out my Ventoy USB key and this was in somebody's office while somebody was waiting for me To fix it. I pulled out Ventoy while I'd updated the Fedora install in Ventoy and not tested it out yet, and that was broken as well, because old version of Ventoy, new version of Fedora. There was an incompatibility and to save the day, I eventually ended up booting into Windows to fix my Linux install, which was kind of embarrassing, but I think I ended up booting into Windows to fix Ventoy, to then fix the Linux install. It was one of those Rube Goldberg sort of computer moments.

44:16
So all that to say it is, you didn't boot into windows from your ventoy stick um, no, that's probably possible if you have like a windows pe install setup, but those are not immediately downloadable the way that linux isos are, um, anyway, uh, all that to say, it is important to keep ventoy up to date, particularly if you're going to grab new distros and test your test your new distros dang it before you need them. The one thing I wish ventoy would let you do and last time I checked you could not maybe you can now. Maybe that's what this remount feature is uh, you can't use the free space on your ventoy stick while you're booted into an iso from ventoy.

45:06 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That always irked me so you can't ever boot into an iso from ventoy and then download another iso and install it on venturi yep can't mount.

45:21 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You can't mount venturi from within venturi. Uh, essentially that's true. The last time I I checked um, yeah, currently you can't mount dev sdv1.

45:33 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Uh, which is kind of a pain, because that would be nice to have you use chaos I've not used chaos and I was gonna say you cannot use spin right with ventoy really you cannot you cannot that's what I thought uh gibson came out with a version that could be used on Ventoy.

46:01
Well, from March 1st, he said, ventoy is definitely and now this is from Steve, it's definitely incompatible with Spinrite. I've researched this thoroughly and since I wanted them to work together. But Ventoy's A-drive emulation conflicts with Spinrite's use of flat real mode, which what does work is a superset tool known as EasyToBoot. And then he says you can find it here. So then he has a link to EasyToBootxyz.

46:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I think there was a special version of Spinrite that got released that was supposed to work with Ventoy.

46:43 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah.

46:43 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, there was one that was supposed to fit in the size, but I know when I tried to do it I could not get it to work with Ventoy myself. I used that ISO version and it just did not. It was not happy. So if anybody's gotten it to work successfully, I would love to hear it. But I wound up using the easy-to-boot method to make a bootable spinrite.

47:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And then burn that as an ISO and then put that on Ventoy.

47:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I don't know that that's going to work. I didn't quite go that far. I'm sure there's a way to make it happen, all right. Well, we've got one last story to cover, and this one's an interesting one for being a Linux show. We're going to talk about Windows, but I think you'll understand where I'm going with this pretty quick, big update, big upgrade to Windows, and it's coming out later this calendar year and it's got some interesting features in it. There's a lot of stuff that makes sense. There's some cool stuff.

48:12
So one of the things that's coming with this is sudo, sudo for Windows. There's going to be a sudo command in Windows. So that's cool. They have appropriated, they've borrowed this from the spirit of open source. They've taken it from linux and they're building their own tool, making it pseudo, like that's cool. We, that's fine, we have no problem with that. Um, one of the things that I'm not sure about is apparently they're going to build copilot into every Windows install. It allows users to run the Copilot AI chatbot and, in this case, a regular resizable window that can be pinned to the taskbar.

48:49
I'm not sure what I think about Copilot on Windows. I'm not sure what I think about Copilot in general. And then the other thing that really people are sort of unhappy about is something called recall, and that is part of Copilot. The computer is going to take continual snapshots, and when we say snapshots we mean literal pictures of the screen that will record basically everything that you do. Microsoft says that all of recalls data is encrypted on disk and processed entirely locally by the NPU, rather than leveraging the cloud and it. Yeah, it's not great. It's not great for privacy, like, how would you like for a screen recorder to be running 24-7 as you're using your computer? And, yes, the fact that they're not pushing it up anywhere is great A tool to be abused if somebody gets onto your machine and gets access to them by Microsoft themselves for doing data collection. And so the and one of the other is a Firefox actually is one of the people that came out and had something to say about this to the Firefox folks. Folks, because in, if you're using Microsoft Edge or, I think, any of the other Chromium, particularly Edge, there's this feature where it detects like, oh, the user is doing banking stuff or something else that should be private, and so we're going to blur this inside of the recall snapshots, and that just doesn't work in Firefox. There's no option for that in Firefox, and so the Firefox folks have come out and said this is Microsoft once again doing vendor lock-in to make other browsers not as usable, which is, I suppose, a fair thing to say.

50:53
The thing that is interesting about this for us Linux users is I have seen multiple places where people are looking at this and saying no, I am not going to allow this on my computer. I will switch to linux before I run this new windows thing which, as as daniel points out, I think it is actually enabled by default if you're running co-pilot. Co-pilot plus is what they're calling it. If you're running co-pilot plus, then recall gets turned on. Um, and so it may. It may be yet another nail in the coffin brick in the wall. However, you want to say it uh to, to kind of get people to move over, to give linux a try, which is interesting. Um, we'd love for people to come and try linux. We would love for it not to happen because the other major OS vendor is doing something so questionable. It's not the way we want to get users, have you guys? I'm curious, have you guys been watching this? Are you aware of Copilot Plus and Recall and what do you think about it?

51:57 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, I think it's, I agree it's going to get abused. And you know they say, well, it's not, it's not going back to the, to the mothership. But also I look at, for example, the issue with Apple had a bug where people were getting things back that were deleted a long time ago. That means it wasn't really truly deleted. Yeah, so that means it wasn't really truly deleted. Yeah, so, oh, it's not going anywhere. Well, that's probably valuable data, and is it really not going anywhere? Or is somebody going to go?

52:30 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
we could make a lot of money off this if it kind of went out the back door and your data is not going anywhere, but the sanitized, anonymized version of your data probably will.

52:39 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Your data is not going anywhere, but the sanitized anonymized version of your data probably will, and maybe sanitized. Anonymized is not very sanitized or anonymized, or you know.

52:47 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Indeed, especially if you're using Firefox.

52:52 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, even more data leaks for using Firefox.

52:56 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Yeah, and I, you know, I do like Copilot. I haven't messed with Copilot Plus, but I do like it's, you know, and I it kind of made sense to me when I, you know, I've said for a while I think it's kind of AI for a lot of things is kind of like spicy spell check. I kind of agree with Leo. Now Leo's kind of shifted what he says. But you know, that's how I use AI. There's things where I'm like, hey, rewrite this a little better. Or you know, you know, help summarize this a little better, or so I use it kind of more like a enhanced grammar, rewording of things, and so it's. It's not thinking for me, but it's kind of helping me. Oh, that's a better way to describe something. Or, you know, be a little more articulate.

53:45 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I think we have hit the point where AI is not going away, like we have critical mass enough. People think it's really cool, enough, people have found it useful. Uh, I'm, I am, I am ready, am ready for the zeitgeist to move on to the next big thing and for people to stop talking about AI as though it is the next. It's the next sliced bread, it's the next. Essentially, people have been talking about AI like it's the next Gutenberg or the next Internet, ai, like it's the next, uh, gutenberg or the next internet. Um, you know, as you kind of look back through human history, those are a couple of the things that just revolutionize things in in an unbelievable way the, the movable type printing press by gutenberg and the internet, and I don't know that ai is the next leap of of that sort of proportion. Um, but regardless, I'm just, I'm ready for it to no longer be the hot thing in the news.

54:41 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Yeah, and honestly, a lot of it is stuff that was already happening. It's just that now, oh, ai is great, hey, ours kind of fits the same model. We better stamp AI all over it and make people think we're better than we are. But personally, right now, I think the real innovation is going to come from things like you know circuit design, or medical uses, where you're looking at x-rays or test results, or maybe medical medication interactions, where it can you know feed in a hundred thousand different medications and you know realize which ones have interactions, and you know stuff like that, where you have a very solid data set. There there's not much iffiness or not much gray area. It's very. This is good, this is bad. Figure this out.

55:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, so you think?

55:35
about the the thing that really kicked off the current craze with artificial intelligence was they finally figured out a way to take because AI, like machine learning, has been around for a long, long time. They finally figured out a way to get it to spit out better pros. Like that's the thing that changed. And then suddenly people realized, oh, this pros that it can spit out is actually really good and it can stay on topic. Now it's not just a Markov chain the way it used to be, and that sort of changed the way people perceive it. But I don't know that there's been a huge quantum leap forwards and other than that, in what our current machine learning models can do.

56:15 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I think that the leap forward is just the access the average person has, because it was already looking at, say, circuit design rules. Well, nobody outside of specific people were looking at stuff like that, or the medical industry or whatever it was. But now the average person can go hey, I'm going to go talk to chat GPT or copilot or whatever you know, and and ask it silly questions and I get silly answers and you know it.

56:43 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yo, yo yo uh, right now I'm just thinking of what bt barnum's philosophy was what's that?

56:51 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
a sucker being born every minute yep lots of money, lots of venture capital money is getting sunk into, uh, artificial intelligence and machine learning right now.

57:03 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Of course it's the hot thing, oh yeah, but sooner or later someone's going to go. Hey, I want to return on that investment oh, you wanted your money back, yeah the money was money back building this up.

57:19 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah.

57:20 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
We haven't come up with a way to make money with it yet.

57:24 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Y'all.

57:24 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Makes you wonder who's the sucker then?

57:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, so we get into some command line tips. I think it's about that time.

57:34 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Or kind of command line-ish tips.

57:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Command line-ish tips-ish. Oh, Jeff, start us off.

57:44 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Oh, I love that sigh. Hey, this could be started from the command line but it is a GUI. So advanced command line tip maybe, I don't know. So my command line tip for today is Bluefish.

57:59
So this is for the programmers in the audience and it's basically an editor. So it supports many programming and markup languages and, of course, is open source. It tries to be lean and lightweight and it is fast. It can load hundreds of files within seconds and I won't say it doesn't support all languages, but it supports a ton of them. So it has support for, you know, multiple encodings. It can handle multiple projects.

58:30
It can, you know, you can have settings for each individual product, project you have, project you have. Of course it does the normal things like code block folding, spell checking, auto-completion, inline reference information and so on. It can be installed in several major distributions. The latest version is 2.2.15, which was released just this March 17th. So you know I'm not going to go into everything because it's something like a code editor like this is very complex and well beyond the scope of just a command line tip. But, you know, take a look and see if the editor is something that you can use and will be helpful. So the link in the show notes takes you to the Bluefish site and it shows you all the features and all the different external programs and integration it supports, and pretty full featured. So give it a look and maybe it'll help your output a little bit.

59:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, very.

59:34 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
For editing HTML files in the past.

59:40 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
How'd you like it?

59:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
was about as same as using a, get it. I find myself either using nano or vs code. These days, those are kind of my only two options. Nothing else exists to me.

59:57 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I I saw vs code, but it was kind of, I thought, my maybe a little proprietary, for because I want to say it's free for some. Was it for personal use, but only for a certain amount of time, or no?

01:00:10 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
no, oh, it's not vs frame is open source, or you can use vs codium, which is actually built directly from the open source.

01:00:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, no, VS Codeum is great.

01:00:22 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
There's a reason people love it. Maybe I was thinking of something else then.

01:00:27 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Some of the plugins may not be open source.

01:00:30 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That's probably true.

01:00:33 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
All right.

01:00:33 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Well, let's. Yes, oh, I was going to say because I know there's like you have to look at, look at the license and all that and I but I'll have to look at that yeah, no, this code is great.

01:00:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It's like one of the coolest things that microsoft has ever done is put a vs code. Seriously, uh, all right, ken, let's, let's finish, finish. Are we finishing our spring cleaning?

01:00:58 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
For the most part, unless you want me to go into some apps that you could go into the next time I'm on, but this week we're going to talk about. Now that you've gone through and found all those apps that you've installed using RPM or dev files, you may also need to go through and remove any unused flat packs or app images or snaps. Well, with flat packs, I've got the command you can use to find any unused flat packs that you can type in. It's just flat pack, uninstall, space, dash, dash, unused. And we can think Orendum for a simple bash script that you can use for removing unused snap items from your Ubuntu install or, jeff, from your Kubuntu install.

01:01:59 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, very good, and you'll see them.

01:02:02 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
They're both in the show notes under the tips for you.

01:02:06 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Cool All right.

01:02:10 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
In fact, Jeff, you'll find that it uses awk to help sort through all that.

01:02:17 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Nice, one of my previous tips. There you go.

01:02:23 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, I have run across something that I have been enjoying quite a bit playing with. I've actually been we may do a more in-depth tip or story about this at some point in the future but playing with self-hosted GitHub running and of course there's a lot of as we would say, there's a lot of as we would say, there's a lot of hair on that topic Trying to do that correctly is very challenging. But one of the things that I've been playing with is setting up a Docker image and then running ephemeral that's the word, ephemeral instances of it, to be able to do ephemeral runners of your GitHub runs. And something that I've come across that's actually pretty interesting is the dash, dash, rm flag, and that just says the actual image. Once you're done with it, remove it. So the way Docker works excuse me, not the image, but the instance of the image the way Docker works is you have your images and every time you start one it sort of makes a copy of it and you run out of the copy and then you know you have the option that you can say, ok, I want to save that copy of the image as a new image of itself.

01:03:34
It's called checking it in, and so for this project what I did is I checked in the changes that I needed and then it could just it runs it from that image each time and you do it with a dash dash RM and it wipes it out each time. So that would look something like you would you would run a Docker, run dash dash RM and then if you want to do it interactive with the TTYs dash IT, then you give it your name of your image, so in this case Ubuntu colon 2404, and I want to start with bash. And so here shortly in the next week or two I am going to hopefully before then, but sometime soon I'm going to help Jeff do some compiling of OpenWRT on his Ubuntu system. I don't have an Ubuntu 2404 system, but I can kick it off right inside a Docker image like this, work on it and then as soon as I'm done with it I can just exit out of it. It'll clean everything up for me. I think that's pretty cool.

01:04:33 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
I do. I think that's really awesome.

01:04:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yep, and it's a lot lighter weight than a virtual machine, a lot, a lot faster to start than a virtual machine too. Um, I I had not played with with this particular use case of it until just the other day, and so I was like, oh, I need, I need to test something compiling, so, like I bet I can just do this with the docker image, ran this and like in 20 seconds I had a had a ubuntu 2404 terminal ready to go, and so if you don't need to do anything like with a GUI.

01:05:07 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
If it's all command line, it's fast, real fast, to be able to get started. I didn't realize you can run an entire operating system in the container. I thought that was a little heavier than what they were designed for.

01:05:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, so what it's doing is it's got all of the binaries of that operating system, so it's got, it's got apt and gcc, um, bash and all of those things inside the container and then it just makes system calls out to your outside kernel. Now, if you have, if, if it's too different, like if you're if you have a very, very, very new OS and a very, very old kernel, then you'll run into problems where it's trying to use this calls that didn't exist then. But this kind of this kind of works off of the, you know the the Linus Torvalds opinion that you never, ever, ever break user space. Well, it kind of implies that your Docker images are going to work on kernelsels even if they're not synced up. It's one of the nice things about it.

01:06:04
So, but very cool, yeah, I'm doing some other fun stuff with this. It's like, uh, I've got a, uh, I've got an arm board that the only image that I can get to run on it is isuntu, I think that one's 2204 or 2404, one or the other. And it's like but I want to compile for the Raspberry Pi, also ARM64, but a different distro. It's like, how do I do this? And that's where this came up. Oh well, let's just grab the ARM64 Debian Docker image, because Debian has official Docker images, build it there and it's going to be synced up and, sure enough, it works on the Raspberry Pi, no problem.

01:06:45 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It's a pretty neat way to approach it. You're running a Raspberry Pi OS in a Docker image on an x86.

01:06:56 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Technically, the Debian OS in a Docker image on an X86. Technically, the Debian OS in a Docker image. Raspberry Pi does not put out an official Docker image of Raspberry Pi OS, so it's just Debian. But from the research I did, other than the kernel and a few config things, there's hardly any difference between Raspberry Pi OS and Debian. So yep, fun stuff, fig things. There's hardly any difference between Raspberry Pi OS and WN. So Yep, fun stuff.

01:07:25 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Can you do that with WRT?

01:07:28 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I don't know if there's an open WRT Docker image. There might be. I'd have to look. That's an interesting question. I will look into that because I'm now fascinated by that. I think to do the really fun stuff with OpenWRT, though, you need the full kernel because it's doing so much networking stuff and really getting into the hardware yeah.

01:07:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And it'll lead to physical Ethernet ports.

01:07:58 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You kind of need some physical Ethernet ports somewhere along the line to be able to build a router. It's true.

01:08:04 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
It's true.

01:08:05 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
At least one, preferably two.

01:08:09 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
At least one yes.

01:08:12 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right? Well, let's close it up. We'll let each of you get the last word in or something else if you want to plug, and Ken is up first on that. What do you have for us, ken?

01:08:23 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Well, I just want to thank everybody that's allowed the Untitled Linux Show to become a part of the Twit Network. We started when people had joined the Twit Club and it was one of the first shows to come out of that. So thank you, and thank you for letting us have this Twit Users Linux show.

01:09:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I think it was actually Rob that went and pestered Leo. He said, hey, we can have a Linux show now, right, leo's like. All right, fine, I know a guy, we'll put the guy I know on it. There we are. All right, jeff, anything you want to plug?

01:09:15 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
You know, I don't have any coffee, don't have any websites, nothing fancy. Just this week it's just Poetry Corner again. Log in incorrect.

01:09:33 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Only perfect spellers may enter this system. Have a great week everybody. Well, I want to say thank you, as you know, to everyone that listens, both live and on the download. We sure appreciate the support, appreciate everybody being here. If you want to follow my work, there's of course, hackadaycom. We've got the security column that goes live on Fridays and then we've also got Floss Weekly over there, which is our Wednesday show, our Wednesday show, and I somehow managed week to week to stuff it all in and record the show and edit it and get it up in time for the six o'clock central slot on Hackaday. And that is tiring sometimes, but we make it happen. If you want to follow my slinging of code, that pretty much normally happens over at the Meshtastic project these days, and if you want to throw something in the tip jar, you can find me at buymeacoffeecom. Slash Jay Bennett. And what is it? Rob said you buy me a thousand coffees and that's the equivalent of a car. I won't ask for that much.

01:10:30
Maybe 5,000. I don't know, it's a bunch of coffees. It's a bunch of coffees to get you a car.

01:10:34 - Jeff Massie (Co-host)
Start with a pizza first, or a coffee.

01:10:41 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Work your way up. I don't't ask much, I just throw it out there in case people want to. Uh, yeah, but we will. We'll catch you all next time on the untitled linux show. Hey folks, is that not enough untitled linux show for you? Do you just want more? You want to be a part of the discussion on discord? Well, you need to check out club twit. It's about the price of a cup of coffee once per month. You can afford it. Check it out, show. Check out club twit. It's about the price of a cup of coffee once per month. You can afford it. Check it out. Show your support. Club twit.