All About Android 575, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Jason Howell (00:00:00):
Coming up next on all about Android. It's me, Jason Howell. My co-host Ron Richards win is out, but we have our guest Daniel Beder from Android police, and we've got a lot of news to talk about Android 13 beta one released just today, in fact, and it's really great, except we have a total cautionary tale. Do not it. Before watching this episode, we talk about that at the top of the news block. Also Android 14 gets its dessert code name, and I'm not sure that it looks very delicious. Pixel watch gets left at a restaurant for Android news sites to pick up on Google wallet is becoming more real again. And the place to is finally getting its data safety section, plus your email and a whole lot more next, not all about Android

Narrator (00:00:51):
Podcasts You love From people you trust. This is TWIT.

Jason Howell (00:00:58):
This episode of all about Android is brought to you by Trade Coffee. Right now, Trade is offering new subscribers, a total of $30 off your first order. Plus free shipping. When you go to drinktrade.com/aaa, that's more than 40 cups of coffee for free. Get started by taking their quiz and let trade find you coffee. You'll love.

Jason Howell (00:01:22):
Hello. Welcome to all about Android. This is episode 575 recorded on Tuesday, April 26th, 2022. Your weekly source for the latest news hardware and apps for the Android Faithful. I'm Jason Howell, and I am Ron Richards. Yes, indeed. The two of us are here this evening. Huyen Tue Dao, She is off this evening and actually we are welcoming back a guest to this show. We come and had you on in so long. And I'm so sorry about that, but it's great to have you back Daniel Bader editor in chief at Android Police. Welcome back, Daniel.

Jason Howell (00:01:57):
Thanks for having me.

Jason Howell (00:01:58):
Yeah, it's good to get you back on here. It has been a minute. We were just talking about this where the show started. Your last appearance was election nights, 2016 and a whole lot has happened since then. It was 2016, right? Like not 2018.

Jason Howell (00:02:13):
Yes. 2016, 2016. Yeah. So it's been far too long. A lot of life has happened. You've had <laugh> you you're actually expecting another child here in a couple of weeks, but you had at, you know, your first child a couple of years ago, we've all had a lot of life happen in the time that you haven't been here. So it's great to finally get you back on and your new, your new-ish sort of at this point to Android Android police. So I did, I I've been going around the Android website circuit, so I started Android central. Now I'm an Android of police who knows where I'll go next. <Laugh> well, there's a few options, but we're not gonna name those options. No, the Android police is.

Jason Howell (00:02:51):
they're dead to me.

Jason Howell (00:02:52):
Yeah, exactly. It was just fine. Well, it's great to get you on. And we actually have a lot of really great stories on deck to talk about tonight and some cautionary tales that's coming up right now. Burke, let's jump into the news.

Speaker 5 (00:03:13):
I'm sure One of the subjects we'll have today is what Android News' new code name will be

Jason Howell (00:03:19):
Oh, and also

Ron Richards (00:03:21):
Burke. Burke sounds like he Burke. Do you have a head cold? What's going on? You sound a little different tonight.

Speaker 5 (00:03:27):
Yeah, just a little grumble grumble.

Ron Richards (00:03:29):
Oh wow.

Jason Howell (00:03:30):
I see. I know, I know the reality is that Burke and Victor are actually the same person. Just, oh,

Jason Howell (00:03:37):
They do voices. It's a, it's a thing.

Ron Richards (00:03:39):
voices.

Jason Howell (00:03:40):
It's a thing. <Laugh> so, don't know if you heard, but today's kind of a big day in the world of Android because Android 13 beta one is out. And what does this mean? Really essentially what it means is this is the first beta of Android 13 that doesn't require you to go through jump, you know, jump through hurdles in order to install it. This allows you to opt in via the beta program and do the automatic update, which we can talk about that in a moment. Cuz I've got some choice words and I know you do too Daniel about that. But before we do, what can you expect? Or so I assume when you install Android 13 beta one, some of, and some of the features, you know, that you might see, I'm not, I'm not sure about the under the hood stuff, but some of the ones that I pulled out that, that sound at least somewhat intriguing, actually this first one is kind of interesting. Anyone with a treble compatible phone or, or treble compliant phone rather can install Android 13 beta via the generic system images. And I don't think that's necessarily possible through the, the beta program. Right? Daniel that's, that's not something that's automatic. That's something you do have to work for in order to install it on just any treble phone, right?

Daniel Bader (00:05:02):
Yeah. I mean, this is, it's a GSI it's, it's not something that you can opt into. You have to basically wipe your phone, unlock your boot loader. It has to, it has to, you have to go through a bit of a process and your phone. I mean, it's not, this won't apply to basically anybody who isn't listening, but your phone had to also have shipped with at least Android 8. I mean, I, I think that's probably not a problem probably. Yeah. More of that. That's when, yeah. That's when treble debuted in 2017. But yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a great way to sort of test out Android 13, but it's not, it's not the same robustness, I guess, as it would be. If you're running it on a pixel, the, you know, Android 13 beta was built for pixels, this is not gonna be as feature rich. It's certainly not gonna be as stable, but if you want to try it on a phone that will support it. You certainly can. Hmm.

Jason Howell (00:05:54):
Interesting. so it's kind of, kind of analogous to like what you get. I mean, it's not the same thing, but what you get, if you installed AOSP versus, you know, the, the pixel version of an Android release, it's kind of like, yeah, they're basically the same version of Android is just, one's gonna be a lot more stripped down from some of the extra kind of extended features by comparison.

Daniel Bader (00:06:18):
Not, not exactly. So this is this isn't, AOSP in the same sense that like, if you were to install just if you were to you know, basically build Android from scratch and then install it on a pixel or something like that, that wouldn't have any Google mobile services, it would have nothing like that. This, this is actually, this does have GMS included but there are gonna be some serious bugs in Google has pointed out a few of them rebooting phone audio, you know, it's, it's just, it's not gonna be quite a stable, but yeah, it's, it's available for any device that supports treble. And if you can give it a go, it's actually quite, quite, fun, it's sort of like the days of the, the Google play editions.

Jason Howell (00:07:02):
Oh, okay. You know, all right. That's a better comparison. I like that like that. Although, you know, also with the reminder that, Hey, these are meant for developers. These are early versions of Android 13, while it is Android 13, those bugs could be deal breakers. So do, definitely do keep that in mind just because it's out of the the developer preview and into the beta doesn't necessarily mean it's good to go. You might encounter things that are really going to ruin your day again, we'll talk about that. Especially

Ron Richards (00:07:33):
At beta, especially at beta one, right? I mean, like we've gone through developer previews, you assume they can kinks have been worked out, but regardless when you're doing this at a beta level, you're gonna like, not every app is optimized, right? Like there are things that just kind of happen. I mean, Jason and I'm sure Dan you've got way more experience than I do because I don't off because I don't want to be dysfunctional daily.

Jason Howell (00:07:53):
You wanna a beta tester?

Ron Richards (00:07:54):
yeah, I avoid this, right? Yeah,

Jason Howell (00:07:57):
Yeah. Maybe I should. Maybe I should, but squiggly playback bar on the lock screen media player, which, I mean, that's a pretty minor minor inclusion, minor feature. But when I saw kind of shots of this kind of, kind of has that like playful material, you quality to it you know, kind of falls in the line with the design aesthetic that we're starting to see with material you with the last version and now into Android 13, a bunch of, you know, speaking of a bunch of new material you theming options to pick from which I think from my understanding, it's kind of like before, I think you had two or three material you pallets that were, and now it's something like 12. So it gives you more options around theming based on, you know, these color palettes that are pulled out of, out of your your desk, your what is the word I'm looking for your home screen image.

Jason Howell (00:08:53):
There you go smart home controls now working without authentication, which is a really great feature that I know I have missed, you know, trying to, I, I get the smart home screen and I go to change the color of the light or the, the diming, the diming of the light. And then the second I, I release my finger. It's like, okay, Hey, now authenticate your thumbprints and you know, or your fingerprint. And so having to do that on something like that, it's nice that I don't have to do that anymore. A new clipboard editor. So the ability to edit what's stored in your clipboard, that sounds interesting. There's also some strings of code that seem to confirm what we were talking about. Very recent Lee, Mishaal Rahman friend of the show had was on a few weeks back and was talking about the possibility of a removable, like a detachable nest hub tablet. And apparently there's some strings of code and Android 13 that further hint at that. And who knows, we've got Google IO right around the right around the corner. So maybe we're gonna see the app, but any features that at least on paper that stood out for you, Daniel you know, maybe one of the ones I've read already, but anything else beyond that?

Daniel Bader (00:10:05):
Yeah, I think the additional theming options are going to appeal to a lot of people who really like material you. I play with this with every wallpaper. I apply to my phone every time inevitably, I will find the perfect accent colors. So having four times the number of options here is just like it's music to my ears. I'm going to go crazy with this because I change my gonna hinder.

Ron Richards (00:10:34):
Is that gonna hinder you from actually getting work done? Are you gonna just sit there doing color combinations all day or

Daniel Bader (00:10:38):
Today was a disaster, Ron, because I love installing betas because I go through every single screen to try to see if there's new stuff. Thankfully, Michelle is like, he makes this easy for everybody now because he just really does knows everything and puts

Jason Howell (00:10:55):
Format. He Does incredible a full manual of every beta. It's like, here's everything. And literally everything you need to know, and

Daniel Bader (00:11:02):
He's gonna, we don't deserve it, but we, I appreciate it so much.

Jason Howell (00:11:05):
Totally

Daniel Bader (00:11:05):
Agree. And yeah, I love, I love the, the squiggly line progress bar on the media player. Like not only does it look great along with all the other improvements that have come to Android 13 <affirmative>, but just, I love these tiny little accents. Yeah. And like, it, it makes Android feel so much fun and it makes the pixel in particular just feel new every time you, you load a new Android version, right? Like, think about the people that are going from say a pixel four or pixel five running Android 12, they have no interest installing a beta come July, August when the final version is released. Like they're, they're gonna see all of these cumulative updates in one fell swoop. I get excited for people like that because as minor as some of these you know, release to release updates have been cumulative cumulatively, I think Android 13 is gonna be a massive update for people running Android 12. Right now

Jason Howell (00:12:03):
That's, that's an important distinction to make because as you know, people like you and I, anyone who's such a fan of Android and, and listens to washes show and is kind of on the train of always constantly being up to date on the latest beta, it, it is easy to fall into the, the whole of gosh, these things seem really minor in everything, but it, that, that's a really great reminder. It is the cumulative effect. That is how 90, some odd percent of everyone that has a phone might be upgraded is going to experience the jump. They're going to experience all of that at once and that makes it more meaningful at that point,

Daniel Bader (00:12:41):
For sure. Totally.

Jason Howell (00:12:43):
Yeah. Now, oh, Ron, did you have any thoughts? Like anything, anything that you've no. Not really. No. No. Okay. Well, Ron, are you ready for a little bit of complaining whining?

Ron Richards (00:12:53):
You know, I love it. I mean, all all about Android, all about complaining. Let's let's do it.

Jason Howell (00:12:58):
<Laugh> right. And I just discovered in, in pre-show that this didn't just happen to me. This also happened to you Daniel. So I apologize or I don't apologize. I'm sorry. That it happened to you just as, I'm sorry that it happened to me. So I will, I will read you the new notes that I wrote down prior to actually doing the thing. I wrote a little note here that said, if you are on BA on 12.1 beta channel or the 12 beta channel, you can opt out and it will tell you that your device will need to be wiped. Don't worry, opt out and then opt in and you'll get the option to opt into Android 13 beta, no device wipe. Okay. This is something that I read in a few articles and I was convinced that they were right and maybe they were right. I'm really not sure I did this. And my device got wiped. In fact, so this is the only device that I have at work right now. And so I can't even like log into my account on it. It's two factor authentication that requires another one of my devices to authenticate

Daniel Bader (00:13:59):
With. Oh,

Jason Howell (00:13:59):
No. So, and you know, when they're at home, it's, it's no big deal. Like when I get home, I'll be able to do it, but it was just a, it was just a big bummer to expect that my phone would not be to wiped because, well, that's what Google said. And then to discover that it was like, I know personally on my device, you know, I, I store a lot of like music ideas that I'm working on. Some of them get backed up. Some of them don't until they're further refined. And so all of those I've lost, whatever those are, and it's not the end of the world. It's just a bummer that I wasn't prepared for. What about you, Daniel? Cuz this happened to you as well, right?

Daniel Bader (00:14:36):
Yeah. So I was running the QPR two QPR three beta. I genuinely thought that Google had this figured out. The UX seemed pretty OB pretty clear, right? You opt out of one, you go to opt into the other, you select the, the Android 13 beta program and you receive an over the air update to Android 13. However, in order to do that, you have to decline the first over the air update that it sends you, which, oh, that's

Jason Howell (00:15:09):
What I didn't

Daniel Bader (00:15:09):
Do, sends you to the Android 12 public release. And if you don't decline that you end up installing Android 12 and it wipes your phone and they don't tell you, you have to do that on the website.

Jason Howell (00:15:23):
Oh

Daniel Bader (00:15:24):
Geez. So you're, you're basically left to figure that out for yourself. Now, Android nine to five Google said that they've Google has identified an edge case where if you opt out and you only see one program to enroll back into, which would be the Android 12 QPR three beta, then you do have to wipe. But this whole notion that Google does not walk you through on your device, that you have to decline the first, over the year update to inevitably get the second one that will, that will install Android. 13 beta is a UX nightmare. Yeah. Even for power users like us and this should never have happened because they never should have had this process in the first place. They should not have combined Android, 12 beta and Android 13 beta in the same place with a UX, like what we have today. It just makes no sense to me.

Jason Howell (00:16:21):
Yeah. And even when you are, if you're opted into that first, you know, Android 12 QPR version already, when you opt out, it makes no mention of thing in that process of Android 13 or anything. It's just like, if you opt out of this, your device is going to be wiped. Okay. Correct. And so, you know, and when I saw that, I was like, oh, wait a minute. No, you know, abor, AOR. And then I read the articles that were like, oh yo, you do that. And then you opt right in. And then it gives you the actual option to either opt into the QPR. Yeah. That, that screen, it gives you that after the fact, but you don't know that initially. So it's just, there's a couple of points along that process where you're really, you're, you're picking blindly and there was no, like you said, there was no way for me to know what was actually happening there.

Jason Howell (00:17:10):
I didn't realize that I needed to reject that first over the year update, nor did I think that I, that that would be necessary because I purposefully waited a few hours and then did the up update thinking that if I opt out of this and then I opt into that, there might be the possibility of there being some confusion there. Cause I know some of these things take time. So I thought if I give it a couple of hours and then I do it, that confusion will be cleared up. Of course that's an assumption that I made and I was wrong. But

Daniel Bader (00:17:40):
That's a sensible assumption.

Jason Howell (00:17:41):
Yeah. I, I thought right. <Laugh> but anyways, it didn't work out. So this is just basically a cautionary tale to anyone who's already opted in to the older version the way we were. And you want to check out 13, just be really, really cautious about it, cuz yes, you can wipe your device contrary to what you may have read in some places.

Ron Richards (00:18:03):
So just completely unintuitive to what you would think the process would be.

Jason Howell (00:18:07):
Yeah.

Daniel Bader (00:18:08):
This also goes back to a problem. Google put itself in when the Android 13 developer preview was living alongside the Android 12 beta program for the QPRs mm-hmm <affirmative> because occasionally people running the developer preview would get over the air prompts to quote, upgrade to the Android 12 beta because the beta build was actually newer than the Android 13 developer preview. And then they would install it, thinking that it was something they could do and then it would fail because yeah, they were going to a, to an older version or a, a lower SDK version. And it just like that whole process, like Google just shot itself on the foot by even thinking that is, it was possible to navigate internally, like their own systems, trying to push different over the air updates to different people in, in a, in an intuitive way. And, and today is like, it, it just, it, it, it's not surprising that this happened because I'm sure it happened to more people than just you and me.

Jason Howell (00:19:18):
Yeah. Well, yeah. I, I, I would agree. I wasn't expecting, like I was, I was totally expecting when I mentioned this to be like, oh, well, Jason, you totally failed to see the thing, the boy, blah, blah, blah. But instead I was met with, oh yeah, that happened to me too. Which tells me yes, it absolutely is happening to other people. You and I happen to, to have it happen on the same day. So big time caution there for everyone listening and watching

Ron Richards (00:19:45):
Big red flag, big red flag. Yes.

Jason Howell (00:19:48):
It just it's it's turned upside down is what it is Ron <affirmative>.

Ron Richards (00:19:51):
So, I mean, yeah, we gotta get that right side up. But Jason, in comparison to your two, your two factor stumbling on this week in Google a few years ago. Yeah. Is this worse? Oh, this is. And that

Jason Howell (00:20:06):
No,

Ron Richards (00:20:08):
Cause you lost all, you lost all your, you lost everything on your phone, it wiped it.

Jason Howell (00:20:13):
Well, the

Ron Richards (00:20:13):
Two factor, the two factor one locked you out of the phone, but you recovered the access.

Jason Howell (00:20:17):
The two factor one had the potential of locking me out of everything in the cloud. And I'm lucky that I got back in. I, I think the two factor thing was a much bigger risk of you know, because I feel like, you know, for better or for worse, my exposure because of the show, I think make it made it easier for me to get back into that account. I think other people in that situation probably would have a harder time and might not be able to regain access what I lost on my phone. Like, yes, I lost some data on my phone and I lost some things that like the, the reality is I couldn't even tell you exactly what it is that I lost. And so at the end of the day, it's kind of like, right. All right. You know, this is what I, this is what I went through not too long ago when I had that hard drive that I dropped and that hard drive had a bunch of you know, not backed up outside of that I music projects from years ago.

Jason Howell (00:21:09):
And when I really thought about it, I was like, okay, well, I can't really remember exactly what those music projects are. And so if I can't, then it's not like I'm really missing anything important. <Laugh> any of the important stuff I have backed up. So it's kind of the same thing here. Most of the stuff on my phone is backed up, right? Like just by its nature, Google phones back up to the cloud. A lot of the really, really important stuff. There's just a few edge cases and yes, I happen to have those install on my phone. And so I lost some stuff, but I'm not really that, that bummed about it. I mean, I'm bummed about it. I wish it hadn't happened, but it's not the end of the world. It's not nearly as, as bad it could have been. If that two-factor thing didn't work out and I lost literally everything that's different, Crazy show. All right. Well, but cheer us up with some, some information looking into the future here,

Ron Richards (00:22:01):
Ron. Yeah. Well talk about going upside down. So, so what used to be our favorite pat as time is now completely ruined as far as I'm concerned, but we'll still talk about it. <Laugh> so as we look at new versions of Android, you know, back in the day, Android versions were, were named by Google, by dessert. You know, we, we historically, we, we had so much fun with, with the, the honeycomb and the tier ma when the new get and the kit cat and all that fun stuff. So here we are, as Android 13 is rolling out even before we can speculate about what Android 14 might be. Android 13, we found out the code name was tier MASU last year, getting ahead of it, Android 14 upside down cake,

Jason Howell (00:22:48):
Cause the next hundred would, that's just, it that's just it. This is like a little word cloud that I found on, on categories on a site called categories, online.net, which is just a bunch of desserts that start with the letter U and I'm thought we'd look through it and, and see if there was any other real choice, but it's like, half of these are upside down blank, blank or <laugh> right. I mean, I don't know if unicorn cake would've made a lot sense

Ron Richards (00:23:16):
Or like, or is unsweetened chocolate really one to get behind from a marketing standpoint or under, under cooked cookies. Yes.

Jason Howell (00:23:23):
Right.

Ron Richards (00:23:24):
<Laugh>

Jason Howell (00:23:25):
That one I like that's basically cookie dough.

Ron Richards (00:23:28):
Yeah, exactly.

Jason Howell (00:23:29):
Under cookies though. Could be very descriptive for a version of Android depending on how well it runs.

Ron Richards (00:23:35):
I do like whatever, whatever website you found here, that's based on a word game for desserts with you list uterus as a, as a dessert that starts with you, which I don't, know's what culture you're from, but I don't, I don't really consider uterus a dessert.

Jason Howell (00:23:47):
That's an interesting ING inclusion.

Ron Richards (00:23:49):
<Laugh> no,

Jason Howell (00:23:51):
I'm sure Google would've don't clear that as far as I know, indeed. I

Ron Richards (00:23:54):
Dunno. I just, I just think it's so sad that they took this away from us.

Jason Howell (00:23:58):
<Laugh> well, I mean, we kind of have it. It's just now all the fun up from it. It's like, oh, here it is. And by the way, we're not gonna lean into it anymore.

Daniel Bader (00:24:06):
I've never had an upside down cake, but it looks terrible. It does not look appetizing in the way that it's like, I'm looking at these recipes. They all have cherries and pineapples. And that to me is just awful. Well,

Ron Richards (00:24:19):
So here's the thing is that you gotta be, you gotta be into pineapple of which I am. Okay. And I'm also so into cherries. So like pineapple upside down cake is quite the delicacy and I would recommend it. It doesn't look that advertising, but oh, it tastes very good.

Daniel Bader (00:24:34):
So I don't know, man. It comes it like it it's, it's like ans on a log to me, it looks like something straight out the seventies. I don't want that in my life.

Jason Howell (00:24:41):
Yeah. It totally looks like something out of the seventies. It looks like something you, she, on, on an old school, Betty crocker recipe label,

Daniel Bader (00:24:49):
I'm literally on Betty crocker.com. I'm looking at this recipe.

Jason Howell (00:24:52):
There you go. So

Ron Richards (00:24:53):
It doesn't mean that it's not good. I mean just cause it is a seventies, Betty crocker recipe doesn't mean that it might not be good. So

Jason Howell (00:24:59):
There's a lot of not good food in, in those recipe cards. But, but that's true. There's probably a lot of good food there too. Yeah. It looks kind like a, a, like a fruitcake, like it has that kinda like weird Glaz quality to it. Yeah. I don't know. I, I guess I would, I would try it if it were in front of me, of course I would. And I might have to,

Daniel Bader (00:25:20):
And one that includes strawberries and rhubarb and that I would, I would get behind. Okay.

Ron Richards (00:25:24):
You see, you see you, you lost me at rhubarb. Like I, I just have the, like, like the, I just don't like the word structure, like the letter structure. So like I'm out

Jason Howell (00:25:32):
<Laugh> yeah. <Laugh> Doesn't take much Ron. It

Ron Richards (00:25:35):
Doesn't take much. No, it's very, yeah. Strange.

Jason Howell (00:25:38):
So, okay. All right. Well, so maybe someday when for 14 gets released we'll have to order in an upside down cake and, and try it and see what it's all about. I don't know that I've ever had one, to be honest. I don't think that I have, and if I have, it was very memorable apparently. All right. Well,

Ron Richards (00:25:59):
We're listen, Jason, I'm gonna make you one the next time we all hang out, then you'll eat it.

Jason Howell (00:26:02):
<Laugh> all right. I will eat one if you make one for sure. Sure. Absolutely.

Ron Richards (00:26:06):
I love baking. I love of baking. All

Jason Howell (00:26:08):
Right. <Laugh> let's take a break. Thank the sponsor of this episode. And then we'll talk about a little bit of hardware. Actually. We were just talking about upside down cake. I bet you, if you had an upside down co cake and a cup of coffee, you'd probably be pretty happy. And so that ties in with our sponsor. The sponsor of this episode of all about Android is trade C coffee. And I actually have package, what is trade coffee? Trade coffee is, is basically a subscription service for coffee. So if you like coffee and you like variety, and you just want it to like show up for you and, and all that, then that's exactly what trade coffee is all about. This was obviously let's see here. This is, you can see inside of the label, Alma coffee this is a here.

Jason Howell (00:26:56):
Why don't I open it? Because this whole packaging is actually biodegradable. So you can put this into your or green bin and and you know, toss it out with all the food scraps and everything. And it'll bio to great. You just remove the label on the other side and you drop it in there, but the coffee that we have here, if you know, if you were signed up with trade coffee, this is Alma coffee, it's a medium dark roast, rich CA cow, sweet caramel, brown sugar, all this stuff. I mean, it's, these coffees are sourced from around the world. I actually received at home Verve coffee roasters from Vancouver. It's a Swiss water decaf. And actually I don't drink a whole lot of caffeinated coffee these days, which a lot of people would be like, how dare you. But you know, at some point I realized the caffeine and coffee sometimes, you know, place having on me.

Jason Howell (00:27:44):
And so I've gotten really used to drinking decaf. And as a decaf coffee drinker, what I've realized is there's never, there's near not nearly as much emphasis in stores placed on decaf, coffee, variety versus caffeinated. You get lots of options with caffeinated coffee, and then you have a few you options with decap. And so you're trying to find those really good options. Well, a service like this with trade coffee, it's awesome because you can sign up to receive nothing but DEC decaf options and they're sourced from around the world. So, you know, it's easy to overlook if you're in the store, but with trade coffee, you get tons of options. So it's really great. Trade's coffee team actually tastes tests thousands of coffees. They keep 450 different kinds live and ready to ship every day. So there may not be one perfect coffee, but there is a perfect coffee for you, hidden somewhere within there.

Jason Howell (00:28:40):
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Jason Howell (00:30:27):
When you go to drink trade.com/aa, make sure and use that URL by the way. That's the URL that tells trade that you heard about this on all about Android that tells them, Hey, it's working. You know, we gotta stick with, with AA. We hope that they do. That's more than 40 cups of coffee for free by getting that $30 off your first order get started by taking their quiz, go to drink, trade.com/aa and let trade find you a coffee. You're gonna love that's drink. Trade.Com. AA, like I said, is $30 off. Don't forget about mother's day. That's coming up. I was just looking this up. That's like not this weekend, but next weekend. So put that on your radar. If it's not already on your radar, this is a great way to do it. A trade subscription, perfect gift for the coffee lovers in your life. And I am suspecting that your mom might like a gift of coffee. So check it out for yourself. Drink trade.com/aa, $30 off. And we thank them for their support of all about Android. All right, we've got some juicy nuggets in hardware coming up. That's right now.

Jason Howell (00:31:43):
What are juicy nuggets? Let's not, I was just gonna

Ron Richards (00:31:45):
Say, I was just gonna say, I forgot to mention at the top of the show that this is the 575th episode of this program, of this broadcast program. And that means for 575 times, Jason has had to transition to the hardware block. And I don't know if somebody in the chat room or on the Wiki or in discord or on social media out there is keeping track of this, but I cannot tell you if he's used the term juicy nuggets

Jason Howell (00:32:10):
Before. I don't probably not. I don't know if I'll use it again or I might slip and accidentally use it again. I don't wanna actually think about what a juicy nugget is.

Ron Richards (00:32:19):
It doesn't sound

Jason Howell (00:32:20):
That appealing. Not great. Yeah,

Ron Richards (00:32:20):
It doesn't

Jason Howell (00:32:21):
Sound good. Not very appealing. Doesn't sound great. I think the news in our hardware is better than juicy nuggets. And Rodney's

Daniel Bader (00:32:26):
Jason, I just have one question about the juicy nugget. Yes.

Jason Howell (00:32:30):
<Laugh> I'm afraid.

Daniel Bader (00:32:32):
Is it a moist

Ron Richards (00:32:33):
Juicy noodle? Oh no, my goodness. Why are you doing that?

Jason Howell (00:32:36):
Oh, don't go there. That's that's a five letter word and, and it's, it's a bad five letter word and I'm not, I'm not,

Daniel Bader (00:32:44):
I'll be curing, cursing the show. So you won't have me on again for another seven years.

Ron Richards (00:32:48):
Yeah, there it is.

Jason Howell (00:32:49):
And we have the title, moist juicy nuggets. <Laugh>

Ron Richards (00:32:52):
Yeah, there it is. Hardware of hardware, so, all right, well, so our first moist juicy nugget hardware, actually, Daniel, you covered. So I'm gonna run through the, kind of the, the high level details, and then you give us more of the color around it, but sure enough, it is 2022. And yet, you know, Google is still playing the unannounced product left behind in a bar game. Which, you know, you gotta question whether or not it's real or not, but apparently the, the, the upcoming pixel watch the, the new pixel watch from Google that we're expecting to be announced at Google IO or sometime this year was lost and found in a us restaurant. Thanks to photos sent to Android central. It confirms many of the previous design links. There was a Reddit AMA with the finder of the watch, which just cracks me up revealed the watch was left at the restaurant for a few weeks, expecting the people that left it to return, but that never happened seems to reveal that the bands will be proprietary on the watch. And the finder tried to boot up the device, but nothing happened beyond the G logo. It's about a half inch stick, which is the same as the Samsung galaxy watch. The finder said it is quote, apple level quality. So Daniel said apple, Daniel. I don't know if I missed any key details with that, but what do you think is this legit? Was it left behind on purpose? What do you, what do you

Jason Howell (00:34:14):
Think? Yeah, that's the question, right?

Daniel Bader (00:34:15):
Yeah. So, I mean, I'll give you some inside baseball, right? I used to, I ran Android central for five. So the first thing that I did was, was message the new EIC there, Jeremy Johnson, who received this and asked him like, is this legit? Did this actually happen? And from what he can tell, and now that we have the person tag tech, four 14 on Reddit, backing it up, it does appear like it was left at a restaurant. And that the person for who works there waited on it for somebody to pick it up and then reached out to his techy friend, this guy on Reddit who, when nobody picked it up, would inevitably wanna share a bit of information about it. Now I love a good story. So I have to believe this is true. Want so badly to believe that this is true.

Daniel Bader (00:35:05):
And the, the reason he didn't, he had to take the photos of the band separately from the, from the watch is that he, when he picked up the watch, didn't pick up the bands at the same time, cuz they were part of a separate, I don't know, like that whole, that whole yarn, right? I just I'm, I'm falling for it. Hook, line and sinker, but I will day, right? This does look like a legitimate leak. There's no charger in the box. So one can assume that the reason it's not working may not be that it doesn't have an OS on it, but that the battery died. Now they were able to boot it up before the battery died, but it didn't get further than the boot screen. Here at, you know, at, at, at AP we were thinking of, you know, let's reach out to this guy, let's help him.

Daniel Bader (00:35:46):
Is it gonna charge on a pixel stand? Is it gonna charge on the back of a pixel six using a reverse wireless charging? This guy apparently has not been able to get it to boot or to, to charge. And you know, it's interesting because this thing looks gorgeous. It looks like a, a really nicely made stainless steel watch, 40 millimeter face. They estimate about 30 millimeters of that is the O lead display. So significant bezzles. But if you use a galaxy much, you know, that there are bezzles on that and that if you have the classic, they use the rotating dial on it to cover up the right, the, the BELE around the ed. So it doesn't look like it has any, but it, it does. So, you know, I think Google is working with some decent hardware here and that crown, that rotating crown leads me to believe that there really taking input seriously here, which I'm excited about.

Daniel Bader (00:36:41):
And if they're taking any of the best bits from Fitbit, they're gonna integrate some of the sensors that make Fitbits hardware. Excellent. I mean, Fitbit software is garbage, but if they're really making a, a show a fit you know, automatic fitness tracking and rating it into Google fit or whatever ends up becoming this conglomeration of Fitbit and Google fit, I have high hopes that this will be a, an apple watch competitor from a fitness perspective, which the galaxy watch for is certainly not because the galaxy watch four is a great, smart watch. It's not a great fitness tracker

Jason Howell (00:37:17):
That that side, side photo that you just showed Burke. Wow. That thing looks small. I mean, yeah, it's a, you know, that's good. That's gonna fit on a whole lot of different wrists. One thing that I was wondering about from the leaks was like how, like the thickness of it, like it looks really tiny. So hearing that it's the same thickness ish as the galaxy watched for gives me some hope as far as like battery performance. Cuz that was kind of my question. It's like, okay, if this thing really is as flat as some of the leaks, make it out to be like, how are you gonna get any, any sort of duration out of this thing? You know, you need a battery in there in order to power it. And smart watches don't necessarily perform as well as like fitness is you know, on the smaller form factors.

Jason Howell (00:38:01):
So but I'm, I'm curious like this it looks like a, like the design language of it. It's, it's very sharp. Like it's very I don't know it doesn't, I, I guess what I, what I see often in smart watches is that it looks like a wearable made by a technology company and not like a watch made by a watch company. And this kind of veers closer to that kind of watch made by a watch company. Look, it, it looks like a watch face. It doesn't look like a piece of technology as much as a watch. So that's good.

Daniel Bader (00:38:34):
On the other hand, I would say, you know, fossil is one of the only wear OS makers these days and it owns every brand you could think of. Right? And I love the S SCO and versions of, of its fossil gen, whatever iteration. So I, I have the new S SCO and foster gen three, it's built on the fossil gen six platform, which runs the fastest Qualcomm wear chip. You, you know, available today. It runs the latest version of where OS that's not a galaxy watch for. Right? So in that, like it's the best wear west experience that you can get outside of the galaxy watch, which is still like Hughes pretty close to the ties, like experience, you know, it doesn't emphasize Google services in a way that a traditional wear west watch does. And what I think about that is that the hardware is great and the software is terrible and I've been waiting for Google to marry hardware and software on a pixel watch the way that they do on a pixel phone.

Daniel Bader (00:39:32):
And, you know, if this runs tensor, which it probably only does because we've heard stories about how they can scale tensor to be, you know, to be a par a really low power SOC that can do what it needs to do on a smart watch. I'm hopeful that battery life will be better than it is on today's wear smart watches that runway wear west. Yeah. Even the, a larger 46 millimeter galaxy watch four, I find doesn't have great battery life. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> like you're looking at 18 hours or so mm-hmm <affirmative> and my wife who she's got a, a, a, an knife an apple watch the, the, the seventh series seven that lasts two and a half days for her easily. Right. Wow. So, wow. I'm hopeful. But I, I would not be surprised that battery life is the biggest concern that buyers end up having with this thing.

Jason Howell (00:40:25):
And if this has, so I, I wasn't, I wasn't aware of the the rumors around the tensor chip being inside. I kind of just assumed, and I don't know why I assumed this because now come up

Daniel Bader (00:40:37):
Whole, that came up

Jason Howell (00:40:37):
A couple weeks ago. Didn't it? I feel like was it that there was a tensor chip inside? Or if it did, if it did it didn't stick because I've still kind of been in that, in that mindset of, of like, oh, it's gonna be the, you know, the, the latest wear chip, but it makes sense for it to be a tensor chip. Actually, if Google was, you know, with all the, the with all the energy that Google it around the tensor chip in the pixel six and leaning into it, I guess it would be really surprising if Google came out with a watch. And I was like, eh, well, no, it's not using the tensor chip. I mean, it wouldn't be a vote of confidence for their chip that they spent all that money and time creating and promoting if they didn't have it in there. So,

Daniel Bader (00:41:15):
Yeah. I mean, it's certainly not gonna be the same chip. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but it'll be based on, on an ex on a, on EXOS architecture, which the tensor is, it'll be, I'm guessing it will be a version of what's in the galaxy watch for, with a custom Google co-processor. Oh, okay. Which basically is the tensor, right? It's a, it's a high end EXOS chip from, I, I think a couple of years ago with minor modifications and a Google co a Google made co-procesor in there and it runs great. And I think there's no chance in hell that at this will be that, that the Google watch will run Qualcomm. I will, I will eat my shoes if it runs a snap and wear. Wow. Wow. I'll do it on I'll do it live on air. I will <laugh>. Would

Jason Howell (00:42:05):
It

Ron Richards (00:42:05):
Be, would it, would it be a juicy nugget shoe or would it, would

Jason Howell (00:42:09):
It be a juicy nugget? Yeah. Would it be a moist shoe?

Daniel Bader (00:42:13):
After I eat it, it's certainly worth

Jason Howell (00:42:15):
<Laugh>. All right. Well, thankfully, you're not gonna have to do that cuz I think you're right. Yeah. That makes, that makes perfect sense that it would not have that in it. And it doesn't seem like more and more, it seems like we're probably not gonna have to wait too much longer to find out at least some information about this. Like, do you, Ugh, I don't, I don't know if this is like Google IO. Here's the new watch. You can buy it now, but maybe, maybe they mentioned maybe they've

Ron Richards (00:42:41):
It depends. It depends because as we see, Google is never predictable with that. It's like they're rolling out hardware at IO. No, they do it at that October event. No, that October event's got nothing. That's that IO like, I feel like there's not enough consistency year over year. Yeah. Where like if the product just ready and they're ready to go, like, like, you know, like I would not be like, if we're gonna see the pixel six, a at IO I'm fully expecting to see the watch and the foldable at IO. Like I think that is a event eventuality possibility.

Daniel Bader (00:43:08):
Okay. But you know, hear me out. I think so Sendar perche today. Today was Google's Q1 earning said something about how the FA the pixel six is fastest selling pixel phone ever, blah, blah, blah. We are building broad consumer awareness of the brand and making good progress. I'm excited about the products we have coming and look forward to sharing more at Google IO. That does not sound like software to me. That sounds like hardware. Yep.

Jason Howell (00:43:32):
Okay. Well, the that's exciting. That's something more to look, look forward to, although they're really good at doing that than making you think you're gonna see something. And then yeah. What you end up seeing is the pixel six a which we are feeling way more confident of seeing by summertime that would make a whole lot of sense of Google IO. And then maybe the watch does end up coming at the hardware event later in the year October. And they do what they did with the pixel six last year and the year, you know, the year before of like the, the super advanced kind of like, all right, here, it is in the summertime. And then they've got months leading up to it who the heck knows like

Ron Richards (00:44:10):
The, like the, like the get ahead of the leaks announcement, you know,

Jason Howell (00:44:14):
Seems to be, we're gonna put

Ron Richards (00:44:14):
It in a box in the window of a store and let people look at it and that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. That said going back to this watch, I, I I'm I'm if this is indeed the watch, I am baffled that someone lost it and didn't go back to get it.

Jason Howell (00:44:29):
I think that's an important thing to circle back on Ron. Like I just, again, once again, like even with the apple, like, I, I can't remember the outcome of the apple, you know, the lost iPhone story, whether that was, you know, true, like believed to be an accident, or if it was like, okay, that was just really smart marketing

Ron Richards (00:44:45):
Or thing or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:44:46):
I mean it's how, how do you have in your possession? Something like that is so top secret and then you leave it somewhere and you never go back for it. I don't understand. Never.

Ron Richards (00:44:56):
And you, you never go back for it and then you still have a job. And then like, it's just like, all those things just seem back. Like, I don't know, I lost it. Who knows where I could have lost it anyways?

Jason Howell (00:45:04):
No, one's gonna public, you know, publish that in an Android blog.

Ron Richards (00:45:08):
And Lord knows that Lord knows everybody, you know, Daniel much like you, I want to believe I like the crazy stories. I like all this sort of stuff, but it's like, I don't know. This just seems not that I don't believe that like this, this definitely checks a lot of the boxes that we've, that we've discussed and that we're looking in terms of the leaks around the watch. But this whole thing just seems just bizarre. It just seems weird.

Jason Howell (00:45:28):
Hmm. Yeah.

Ron Richards (00:45:30):
I don't knows.

Daniel Bader (00:45:31):
I, I think there's a difference between the way apple responded to the iPhone four leak, which was Steve jobs called up editor of Gizmoto and was like giving my phone back.

Jason Howell (00:45:44):
Yes. Right. And you're like, okay, that's right. Thank you for the reminder. That's, that's how that went down. <Laugh>

Daniel Bader (00:45:49):
And this, which is you know, an engineering sample of a smart watch which is already leaked like a, a lot. Yeah. I, the, the thing that baffles me is that the person didn't go back for it. Yes. it's not like they didn't realize they lost it inevitably. They did. So right. Either they were instructed not to go back for it because for whatever reason, right. Whether they knew that it was gonna leak and they just said, let it be, or they, they didn't want to, it, they didn't wanna have to face up to it. Or mm-hmm, <affirmative> some, I, I, I, that part, I can't understand you know, whether Google PR just wanted to shut the whole thing down, you know, potentially hope that nobody reported it. That part is very strange or that person was just fired, reprimanded and fired. And they were like, all right, well,

Jason Howell (00:46:44):
And moving on,

Daniel Bader (00:46:46):
They were just gonna let it be.

Jason Howell (00:46:47):
Yeah.

Ron Richards (00:46:48):
It's so strange.

Jason Howell (00:46:49):
So strange. I mean, advanced teasing of their products has worked out well for Google. So, you know, at this point, it, it could be seen as like, all right, well then if that happened, it happened, what, what is our, you know, what is our playbook, if it does start to hit the press. So who knows maybe tomorrow we'll start seeing the, the Google like, well, you've seen a little now it's time to see more. Here's our official reveal ahead of Google IO. When you're gonna hear more, who the heck knows, who knows real quick, there's, there's not a whole lot on this one, but nine to five Google wrote and these about the pixel six pro saying that it originally intended to release with face unlocked. They say, they're certain that right up until it released, this was, this was going to happen.

Jason Howell (00:47:35):
Obviously there's no dedicated hardware on the pixel six pro like the solely radar. Instead it verbalize on the front facing camera, which, you know, does it require a certain and kind of front facing camera in order to do this more effectively than others, that apparently this wasn't gonna hit the pixel six. It was only gonna hit the six pro. But apparently Google is working to bring this still as a feature on nine to five Google. They said the next big quarterly update which, you know, at this point would be about nine, nine months into the release of this phone or eight months, you know, by the time it comes out. So, so if you like your face unlock, maybe it's coming to your six pro at some point. I certainly got used to having the face unlock on the, on the four Excel. I actually really liked it a lot. Even though the solely, you know, didn't have a whole lot of use cases outside of that, in my opinion, but that one feature I really liked. So I suppose it would be nice to have it back. I've gotten used to not having it though. So there you go. Not a whole lot there.

Daniel Bader (00:48:43):
I, I like this if only because Google does occasionally rule out massive features and I consider this a massive feature months into the product cycle of its phone. And I, I understand how difficult a problem this is to solve, right? Because this is not a face ID or a solely sensor powered, no face and lock. This will, would inevitably need to match the threshold of a capacitive or optical fingerprint sensor for Google, meaning that it would inevitably have to engage with the biometrics API that allows you to actually do stuff on your phone beyond just unlock it, right. If this was just a straight unlock, your lock screen feature, that's been on Samsung phones and other, and basically every other Nixle for years, that would not be significant. I don't think Google wants to do that. Google wants to release a 2d camera based you know, secure authentication solution that relies mostly on software to get this done, to pass that threshold.

Daniel Bader (00:49:57):
Oh, and that's why this problem is so difficult. And I, I, I would prefer Google gets it right, so that you can't just hold up a 2d picture of somebody to unlock their phone on a pixel six pro. And that's, that's just incredibly, you have, you need, need to have such a massive machine learning database here to ensure that you, it can't be spoofed. Right. and yeah, that's my theory is that they just, they couldn't get it right for launch. And they wanted to wait until later on in the product sector, which is

Ron Richards (00:50:26):
The right call, which to your point is the right call. Like, if you're, if it's gonna be Google, they gotta get it. Right. And the last thing you want is those embarrassing stories of people breaking the face unlock, right? Like this, what, like, I feel like face unlock is one of these like amazing pieces of functionality that everybody seems to want purely for the punchline of when it doesn't work. Mm. Right. Like, like I don't, I, I don't know. I just feel like it's, it's not, I, I think fingerprint unlock is far more, you know, secure and in and intuitive to how you hold the phone. You're already doing it. Having, you know, I don't know. I just don't like holding my phone up my face up to the phone for selfies and video chatting anyway. So face unlock just falls under that category, but yeah, it's, it's too risk ski and too embarrassing to get wrong. So,

Jason Howell (00:51:09):
Yeah. And they've gotten it wrong before <laugh> back on the galaxy nexus when it was literally as easy as holding up a picture of your face and, you know, and you could get into the phone. But I mean, the technology that was, that was happening underneath was just my miles apart from where it is the capability that Google has with its software to use a whole bunch of different signals to actually, like you said, Daniel authenticate that in a very secure way. And Google's gotta feel really comfortable that, you know, not just anything is gonna unlock that and give some random person access to really important, valuable information on, on a user's phone. So that's a really good point that makes me more excited for it. I, I do like the the freedom of a face unlock when it's implemented. Well, I don't feel like you have to hold it up and like into a selfie pose. It's like when it's implemented well, in my experience, it's just as, as good as like, I look at the, to use it and it gets the information it needs and lets me ride in. I'm not changing how I use it in order to unlock. And that's, that's nice. That's nicer than having to do something really purposefully in order to get in.

Ron Richards (00:52:22):
Yep.

Jason Howell (00:52:23):
So, yeah.

Ron Richards (00:52:24):
All right. All right. Well last little bit of going back act to watch talk. So when the Samsung galaxy watch for came out, everybody agreed, this is a great wearable, but it seemed to be missing one little element. And that was assistant support. Even though it's running wear OS three which is the only wearable doing so at the moment still it launched with only Bix Bixby, voice support and a Spanish promo ad by Samsung shows a man asking his watch for, Hey, gee, play music on YouTube music. Samsung has been teasing since February that the feature would be coming soon. But we don't know when maybe IO maybe or some other point, but it's, it's getting tease east. So it might be coming soon. I don't know. Yeah,

Jason Howell (00:53:13):
We'll see. It's one of those features that, you know, should have been there. <Laugh> I guess I understand it's Samsung, Samsung still really wants you to use their big speed, but they've made this you know, they they've made that adjustment on other devices that they were all in on BBY for. And I don't know on a smart watch. It's just, I'm not, I'm never gonna use Bixby on my smart watch. I will use the assistant functionality. So it's nice to know that it's coming eventually at this point, the galaxy watch for has been out. How long has it been? Out's eight months. I mean it's August.

Daniel Bader (00:53:46):
Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:53:46):
August. Yeah,

Daniel Bader (00:53:47):
Last

Jason Howell (00:53:47):
Year. Okay. So soon it'll be about a year, which is a long time to wait for a, for a big feature like this, but hopefully we'll see that soon. All right. Coming up next, we've got some app news stay tuned for that.

Ron Richards (00:54:13):
I, I do love the the, the game of chicken that Google is playing with wallet, by the way. I just, I just

Jason Howell (00:54:19):
Love it. <Laugh>

Ron Richards (00:54:20):
So last week we talked about friend of the show Michelle's discovery that wallet might return to the Google pay branding. If you might remember mm-hmm <affirmative> in the ever and ever snake eating its own tail or a Boris of Google wallet slash Google pay <laugh>. But this week Michelle has expanded on that info with more evidence. However, it's actually looking like things might be reverting to the way they were prior to the merge that happened in 2018. So if you are keeping track at home, yes. Google might be winding up to come full circle on Google wallet sometime soon. The new wallet app could house quote, unquote payment cards, loyalty cards, and more all in one place. Airline passes, theater tickets, gift cards, and transit fair cards too. It pulls past from Gmail, something Google pay does now. Duplicates contact payments features without all the bloat of the current Google pay app. And ultimately Google wanted Google pay to compete with mint slash Venmo. And it really has it in any meaningful way. So this might be a reaction to that which cracks me up because all those selling points about this new Google wallet seemed you like the selling points that were in Google were the last Google pay iteration. Yeah. Like it just keeps, it's just a, it's just a, it's a, it's a Merry around that never ends.

Jason Howell (00:55:35):
Why, why the reversion to wallet that nomenclature like any theories on that? Like why can't like Google pay makes sense to me? Like why, why do they have to go back to wallet? Do you have any, any guesses on that Daniel? Like, that's just confusing to me.

Daniel Bader (00:55:52):
I, I don't know. I mean, maybe this is just a, like a skum morphic, you know, going back to like the original iPhone design theory of like a wallet doesn't just house payment cards, it houses your loyalty cards, it, and it houses your transit card. And in theory, wallet is a better name for what Google pay is today. And back in 2018, when Google rebranded it to, you know, from Andrew Android pay to Google pay and they dropped the wallet brand, they were really, really focused on payments on digital payments. They wanted your phone to replace your credit card. Right. And they made this big push. It was supposed to compete with apple pay and Samsung pay. I mean, remember all of the, that, that land grab of like, oh, we support these banks first. And you know, my bank doesn't support apple pay, but it supports Google or Samsung pay, but it supports Google, whatever.

Daniel Bader (00:56:48):
Like that was a big deal. And that wasn't even that long ago, it was four, five years ago. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and now every bank supports every service. Right. And it's just, you take it for granted that if your phone supports NFC, Motorola your, you know, you pay in most places. Yep. And like, I find that just it's, it's just table stakes. So now Google is reverting to wallet because it wants to be everything to everybody. And it makes more sense to be called wallet. That's my theory, whether it's the right decision, I will leave that up to somebody else. <Laugh>

Jason Howell (00:57:21):
Well, yeah. And as, as I think about it to like wallet to my mind seems to make sense for the things that you keep on your phone for the place that you keep all of these cards and payment methods, but Google pay seems to be the right nomenclature for when you go into a store, like, like it would be weird to go into a store and say, can I pay with Google wallet? Because that a Google pay makes more, much more sense in that scenario. Does that make sense? I don't know if the, the, the difference.

Ron Richards (00:57:51):
No, I think I, I, that does make sense. And the problem is, is that they're like, and, and it called it, you know, in the, in the conversation, the current version of Google pay or G or whatever it is, is bloated to all get out. Yeah. Right.

Jason Howell (00:58:03):
Like it's got so many of features in there that I've just never used.

Ron Richards (00:58:06):
It's got, it's got so many different features and the design, and it's also built in a way that I, when I'm in the store, I can't find what I'm looking for in the app. Like where, where is my loyalty card? How does this, what, you know, like, literally my interaction with, with Google pay now is completely all through touch where I just, I tap into the terminal. That's all I is Walgreens, my card. I pay it with my debit card. We're done. Yep. Right. All the, all the crap about, like, remember when this rolled out and like, if you did these tasks, you could get money and you could refer a friend and get money. Like there were all these like gamification nonsense to get you to use it. Yep. And it still didn't, it, it did, didn't it brought no joy in using that app at all, at any point.

Ron Richards (00:58:49):
Right. And, and they just keep, they keep swinging for the fences, by packing, in functionality and missing the, the ease of use of a Venmo, like Venmo, isn't a place where you store your, you know, your loyalty card and all this sort of stuff, like to, to Daniel's point, like, you know, like it it's try. I feel like it's trying to do too much under the hood. Right. And so I, I, I see a world where Google wallet and GP both exist that maybe Google pay is an, is an aspect of Google wallet. You know, going back to your, your point, Jason, where it's a functional, like, I I'm gonna pay with you Google pay. I'm gonna send my friend money with Google pay that sort of thing. But all my cards are kept in my wallet. I

Jason Howell (00:59:27):
Don't know, in my Google wallet,

Daniel Bader (00:59:28):
Ron, that's exactly it. I mean, if you, if you look at the screenshots that Michelle posted, they, it makes mention of GP and Google pay within wallet. Right. Right. So it's just at feature now within the overarching wallet.

Jason Howell (00:59:43):
Okay.

Ron Richards (00:59:43):
Which feels right. Right.

Jason Howell (00:59:45):
That makes more sense. Yeah. They're

Ron Richards (00:59:47):
Kept moving. They get it wallet. I mean, listen, if listen, Google was able to get messaging. Right. Right. So of course they payments, right. I mean, like they're, they're track record is, is clear that, you know, like clearly they're, they're, they're solving these things.

Jason Howell (01:00:00):
So it might take 10 years, but they'll get there eventually. Oh boy. Okay. So Google play store, we've talked in the past about about a data safety feature in the Google play store. And this is basically, well, it was a originally meant to launch in February. It's launching now, apparently it's gonna take a few weeks to roll out. And basically it's, it's a section that's gonna appear above the review score on a Google play store page for a particular app. And it's gonna have, you know, categories for different data types details on information that developer are collecting that sort of stuff. Name, email, you know, if, if they're collecting your name, your email location, your browsing activity, that sort of stuff, also how that data's gonna be used you know, is it used for personalizing your experience? Is it used to prevent fraud used for communication all that kind of stuff.

Jason Howell (01:01:01):
So it's kind of I think apple had, has a similar feature called nutrition labels. I don't know if that's the official name for it, but that's how everybody was writing about it. Back in 2020 that you know, I think was part of the reason that, that Google, you know, looked further into this for the play store, but so that's actually finally rolling out. It's supposed to out a few months ago, it's happening now. Developers actually still have until July 20th, so that's another 12 weeks or so to submit the forms for their apps, with this information, without that information, those apps may quote, face additional enforcement actions in the future. So that could be, you know, removal from the Google play store, that sort of stuff. But it's basically information for users to know exactly what's happening with, you know, whatever data is being shared with the developers. And I think it's great that that's happening. I'm all for it. What do you think, Dana?

Daniel Bader (01:01:58):
Yeah, I think this is the right move it's unfortunately I don't think it has the teeth that it needs to, to have it's voluntary at the moment, and it's not gonna be adhered to as closely as it would on the app store because developers just inevitably get away with stuff on the play store that they don't on the app store. Yeah, sure. I, I do worry that some of the disclosures on smaller smaller apps will, will probably not be as comprehensive as they need to be. But I'm also a little worried that some of the ind developers are going to disclose things and people are going to get worried similar apps, some thing similar thing happened with permissions and this still happens to this day where a developer will say, Hey, I need your phone permission for something,

Jason Howell (01:02:49):
What are you gonna hold through all of my contacts? And you're gonna call all my friends and

Daniel Bader (01:02:53):
Blah, blah, blah. And it's because like in, in a hidden in the contact us, you know, settings us part, it's like, Hey, just call us if you have a problem, but we'll need to access your phone permissions to do that. I, I do worry that Google does not have the same impetus to, this is really, this was done under duress. It was done as a, as a, as a way to fend off regulation in the, you I think the alt the, the altruistic part of this is, is good in that it will disclose more information about what your apps are reading from your phone, but at the same time, the fact that it's voluntary, as I said, is, is problematic. And the, that I feel like this won't be enforced universally in the same way for every developer will also be a problem. But we'll see. I mean, we have, we have a few weeks and I haven't seen it in action on any apps on my phone yet. It's rolling out over the next couple of weeks.

Ron Richards (01:03:56):
Yeah. Burke. So our video Watchers are, are, or video viewers are seeing the video that the, the introducing data safety section play console that Google posted a YouTube Burke. Can you scrub back to the beginning of that video for a moment? So it shows like a sample app, which I did look into Google play store looks to not, there is blasto

Daniel Bader (01:04:23):
Blasto. I love that game. Right.

Ron Richards (01:04:25):
<Laugh> <laugh> right. I just looked it off and I was like, I, this doesn't exist. So I, I find, I like the attention to detail in there not using an actual app to talk about it to talk about the data safety stuff. So <laugh> yeah. Sorry. So someone should go make blasto, please. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:04:41):
Yeah. Make plaster. You've already got an advertisement for it.

Ron Richards (01:04:44):
Yeah. There it is.

Daniel Bader (01:04:44):
5 million downloads

Jason Howell (01:04:46):
<Laugh> yes, exactly.

Ron Richards (01:04:49):
We'll talk well, well, yeah, exactly. It's got a ton of down 5 million. It's crazy. That's what, that's what triggered me. I'm like, are they really showing off an app that has 5 million downloads, but it, it doesn't exist. <Laugh>, that's interesting. Well, so, so keeping in the Google play kind of area and kind of restrictions and things like that, that they're doing to developers there's a new Google play store policy. That's banning call recording apps from the play store. And Daniel, you men, you mentioned how, you know, developers get away with a lot more on Google than they do on apple. And this is actually part of Google's continuing crackdown on the access accessibility API use at Android for non accessibility reasons. And Google said, quote, the accessibility API is not designed and cannot be requested for remote call, audio recording.

Ron Richards (01:05:34):
So the band will kick in on mail 11th which happens ironically to be day one of Google IO. And for the record Google's own Google phone app can record calls in some countries where it's legal and clear and okay, but Google's keeping the proper API access to third party devs to use for the same function. And if this is something you need, I, I guess you could always side load it, but like part of me bums me out, cuz that was like one of the things that differe differentiated Android from iOS is that you could do stuff like this on Android, right? Yeah. Like you could, you could, you could, you could not only have a, a, an app that records phone calls as needed, presumably following legal guidelines and all this sort of stuff, you gotta tell the person the call's being recorded, et cetera, et cetera, but not only could you do it, but you had a choice in the matter you could pick from various apps that could do it. And I get that it's a loophole in the accessibility API that enable developers to do this, but kind of bugs me out that, that it's taking. I feel like we're, we keep subs acting from what makes Android so special, but I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Daniel, what do you think?

Daniel Bader (01:06:44):
I don't know, I'm of two minds about this because it's not explicitly banning those kinds of apps. I mean, if you, if you create an app that requires root, which some do, you can do this, right? You can, you can create your private APIs and get, you know, get through and, and, and record calls. What this is doing is it's just furthering a project that Google started back in 2017, where it's trying to prevent its accessibility APIs from being abused. And I get it right. They did the same thing with password managers where passwords were password managers are using the accessibility API. Yeah. In order to allow for the like third party keyboards to access input prompts for user names and passwords, and this was before Google had put a proper password API for those apps, like one password or last pass.

Daniel Bader (01:07:47):
So that really was the only way to call up a a, a, a, a way to quickly add or username and password. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, there is no replacement API for this. They tested something in Andrew Levi, but it never got to the public release. So for places that do legally support call recording, other than the Google phone, which really wasn't designed for this purpose, there's no way to do it unless you have a rooted phone. And I do agree that sucks. There's no, yep. There's no fix for this. It's just, they're taking the, the, the, the feature away from people that use it. And that does suck.

Jason Howell (01:08:31):
Yeah. Yep. I completely agree. I, I do hope because, you know, this keeps cropping cropping up around the, the access to the accessibility features, you know, in different ways. Right. And I continue to hope that maybe there is some way that Google recognizes that there is, you know, this category of apps that rely on those APIs. And, you know, some of them might be doing things incorrectly or in a, in a, with bad intentions or whatever, but some of them are doing very legitimate things. It, that just happened to be enabled or accessible because of those particular APIs. And I stand why Google would want those APIs to be used for just what they are designed to be used for. But I would hope that Google would also recognize that some of those apps do deserve to exist. And can they create, you know, is, is there a larger kind of category of an API that could be created to serve apps like those, if there's enough demand or, you know, reason for those apps to exist?

Jason Howell (01:09:41):
I don't, I, you know, I don't know if, if Google, you know, has any intention to do that, but when I see things like this, I, I agree, I above two minds, I, I understand the need to, or the desire to you know, kind of control what those APRs are used for. So it doesn't get outta hand that they aren't used, you know, in nefarious ways. But also, you know, those APIs have enabled apps that do some really CRA you know, really cool things, really useful things, beneficial things that deserve to exist, whether they're using their, those APIs or not. So how can you make a, that achieves the security and control that Google is looking for, and also allows those apps to exist. You know, who knows what the answer is there, but I would hope that Google would be looking into that, you know, maybe that can be a, a feature in the future, a future feature. All right. Coming up next, we have a bunch of your feedback.

Jason Howell (01:10:43):
AAA twit TV, 3 47, show AA. Those are the places where you can contact us to let us know what what's on your mind in the world of Android. I'll start off here. We've got an email from Matt, not in orbit in our discord. So close up to it member. Thanks, Matt. From Ann Arbor, Michigan also called our local security pro because Matt says I had to pause yesterday's episode. This is last week's episode to answer the question. Jason asked about why some sites prevent you from pasting into password fields. And Matt says it is a garbage security and securities and quotes setting scanners, like industry leader, Nees, identify that as a vulnerability, this puts site runners in the position of either explaining the vulnerability to likely non-technical management or just changing the setting so that the scan is clean. So that was a, just a random, you know, comment slash discussion point from last week's episode, trying to understand, like, why can't I just pace the password into the field? What is it about that that's insecure? And this makes a lot of sense, you know, it's like it's identified as a vulnerability. And instead of trying to like, you know, explain, have that be an explanation, it's just easier to disable it all together. And we are where we are as a result of that. So

Ron Richards (01:12:06):
Can I, can I tell you, I did have, I did have a moment last week after the show where one of those, like the next morning, like, what did I do last night where I was like, oh my God, did I rant about password requirements on the show? I really did.

Jason Howell (01:12:20):
Didn't I, Jason,

Ron Richards (01:12:21):
It I'd like, like I got really mad at the fact that that password requirements across different sites are different and like it is, and it's like, it was the kind of thing that like, has always kind of frustrated me, but I didn't really verbalize it until that moment. So like, it's not like that whole rant came from a source of ongoing frustration, like my Google home fight that I've been having. But but, but yeah, the more I think about it, it's like, wow, passwords suck.

Jason Howell (01:12:45):
<Laugh>

Ron Richards (01:12:45):
Just not, not good.

Jason Howell (01:12:46):
We need a new system. We need to do non password system. Yeah.

Ron Richards (01:12:51):
Some sort of, I identification security, you would think, again, it's 20, 22. You'd think I'd have a cordless, a wireless mouse that actually maintained the connection. And you would think that we would have a better way of maintaining account security.

Jason Howell (01:13:05):
Yeah. So you'd think someone's gonna figure that out. They're gonna, you know, make a lot of more,

Daniel Bader (01:13:11):
They're trying, there's a lot of password successors potential successors out there and nothing has stuck yet.

Jason Howell (01:13:18):
Yep. Yeah. Good deep.

Daniel Bader (01:13:20):
But the, the requirements for eight to 12 characters, I, every time I, I almost refuse to use the services. If you're requiring me to use a password that's between eight and 12 characters, you're doing it wrong. Get, get a new CT because you failed your job. And if you can't paste passwords, then just, yeah. Just quit. I'm sorry. You're you're not it's you, you don't understand passwords.

Ron Richards (01:13:46):
I mean, what, what crack, what cracks me up? Is that like, so at, at, at one of my many, I won't say which one, but one of my many business endeavors and, and jobs and things like that, there's an it work requirement to change your password. Every, I forget what it is, 45 days or 60 days or whatever it is. And I literally, I have a password schema and I literally just increment every time, you know, like, so, so like, so it's like the core of it is the same, except one digit changes because every 60 days, I can't remember a new password, you know what I mean? Like, like that's the just, it, it, it, I don't know. There's gotta be a better way. There's gotta be a better way out there.

Jason Howell (01:14:23):
There's gotta be a better way.

Ron Richards (01:14:26):
Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:14:26):
Well, all right. You have the next one.

Ron Richards (01:14:28):
I do have the next one. So email comes in from Jonathan. That's all Jonathan, simply Jonathan,

Jason Howell (01:14:35):
We don't know where you're from. Jonathan. We

Ron Richards (01:14:36):
Don't know where you're from. We don't know your name. We don't know where your username are you a discord? Where are you? Where are you, Jonathan? Anyway, Jonathan says I was listening to the email of the week.

Jason Howell (01:14:47):
Oh, there we go. We can hear it. This, this

Ron Richards (01:14:49):
One during, in 574 and could totally relate to the pocket lit issue. The listener described as I've definitely had issues with this in the past. However, starting a few years now, I've started to use silicone and USBC dust plugs such as what can be found at the following Amazon link. And he provided the Amazon link, which will pull up there. There it is. Video Watchers are seeing this. It is a port plug us BC dust plug compatible with the Samsung galaxy series pixel whole bunch of things. Very cool. And it also includes headphone Jack plugs and SIM tool, which is neat. And he's attached a few photos of the plugs being used on his pixel five and pixel buds. I don't know if we can show those through our video of yours or not, but it's an extra item that you have to keep track of when plugging your phone in, unless you're leveraging wireless charging, but in my opinion, it's 100% worth the trade off of never having to worry about tending to or cleaning out the USBC port, the plugs do a surprisingly good job of staying in place when going in and out of, of the pocket.

Ron Richards (01:15:50):
But the Amazon listing does also come with several, several extras in the event that you were to misplace one of the plugs at some point. So yeah, so there's a handy solution. If you have a lint problem in your USC devices, <laugh> just plug 'em up. For me, I, I, because I, I, I'm not using wireless charging. I plug my phone in nightly. I, I feel like I would lose these. I, I just like, they, they, I don't know. I just, I, this isn't for me, but I'm glad it works for you, Jonathan. So

Jason Howell (01:16:19):
Yeah, I would have a hard time keeping track of those two, like popping it out and put, setting it somewhere where they wouldn't just roll off onto the floor or something like, you know, they're, they're so small and easy to lose, but it works for Jonathan and you know, it

Ron Richards (01:16:33):
Looks like so thing one of my kids would try to eat and that kind of wor it worries.

Jason Howell (01:16:36):
<Laugh> that's true. So that's a good point. <Laugh>

Ron Richards (01:16:40):
I'm at the, I know in the pre-show we were talking about parenting and stuff like that, but my son's at the phase of, of taking it really personally, when you tell him not to do something Uhhuh mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, so I've had to change my, my whole approach. And instead of telling him not to do, so think, suggest he do something else. Oh, okay. Which is like a whole new kind of like, you know, but like, Hey, instead of putting that in your mouth, why don't you put it in on the shelf? And like, it just, so

Jason Howell (01:17:04):
I've gone,

Ron Richards (01:17:05):
Don't do that. He, he takes it really personally. So,

Jason Howell (01:17:08):
Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Bader (01:17:09):
I've started following a lot of parenting Instagram accounts because, oh yeah.

Ron Richards (01:17:13):
They

Daniel Bader (01:17:14):
Have a lot of these tips. And even if you don't follow them all the time, it's like, oh yeah, I guess I could say, you know, we're not doing that right now. It's like, oh, we're gonna do something else today. Like, let's, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna try something new or whatever. Right.

Daniel Bader (01:17:29):
Positively does it does help to try to reframe it. It's really hard to do it in the moment.

Ron Richards (01:17:33):
It's really hard. And it, the thing that helps me is that trying to be aware of it in the moment, and then quickly do the logic processing. Is this something my parents would've said? And if so, don't say it. So like, I, you know, cuz we were very much in the, you know, like, you know, tell you not to do something and smack you and then move on. Right. So like as long as I don't do that, then we're, we're in better shape. So that that's been my little mental trick, but it's hard in the moment. You're right. It's hard to switch those gears. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:18:01):
It is. It is.

Daniel Bader (01:18:02):
I wanna, I wanna go back to the, the port plugs for a second, because that would be a good challenge to see whether you find something or get every device that you use on a regular basis to support wireless charging. Like oh yeah. If you really are set on not having dust plug up your ports. Yeah. Just that is a massive challenge. Find a phone, find earbuds, find a watch. They all have to support wireless charging. I guess the watch isn't really a problem. But yeah. You know, that, that to me is a, is a big challenge. I'm almost there. I rarely use things that require charging physical charging anymore. But occasionally I do. I mean, especially when you want to get something charged quickly,

Ron Richards (01:18:48):
But bur Burke who are on the show behind the scenes is a big fan of wireless options. So I'm sure you, and he could talk offline about

Jason Howell (01:18:56):
Wireless charging

Ron Richards (01:18:56):
Wireless. He purchased not like cables. He doesn't like wires. Yeah. So

Daniel Bader (01:19:01):
Ethernet. Yeah. He's

Jason Howell (01:19:02):
Creating his teeth back here.

Ron Richards (01:19:04):
<Laugh>

Jason Howell (01:19:06):
There was a phone. It was it the Mazu zero. I can't remember which one when it was, but it was back a few years ago and it was, it was advertised as like the pointless phone. Like it didn't have any holes in it. Like it was just all wireless charging.

Ron Richards (01:19:21):
I remember that. I remember that.

Jason Howell (01:19:22):
Yeah. Maybe it was the Mazu zero.

Daniel Bader (01:19:25):
It

Jason Howell (01:19:25):
Was the 2019. Okay. This wow.

Daniel Bader (01:19:30):
Yeah. Back in the day when experiments involved port no ports instead of folding, right?

Ron Richards (01:19:35):
The first homeless homeless phone. That's fantastic.

Jason Howell (01:19:38):
Right.

Ron Richards (01:19:39):
Oh man, there you go. You know who, you know, who would like that phone people with that fear of holes.

Jason Howell (01:19:43):
Yeah, that's true. <Laugh> see. They're all, it's truly homeless. It says, I wonder, wonder how many people buy that phone? 39 backers for that <laugh> for that fundraising? Not that many apparently. Thanks. Ouch. Annie who. And finally we have made it to the email of the week

Jason Howell (01:20:11):
And this week's emailer of the week is Jay cook from Tacoma, Washington. Jay writes my wife and I are celebrating our fifth wedding anniversary and get this. The Google assistant made our dinner reservations. For me. It seems that this type of service was promoted to us long time ago. But here we are living in the future. The night that I decided to make the dinner reservation, the restaurant was already closed. The assistant text, messaged me back to report, failing to make the reservation and said it would attempt again the day after next two days later, I received a text message from the Google assistant confirming that my reservation was may aid. At the time I asked for I called last week and confirmed over the phone with an actual human being that my reservation was actually scheduled. He confirmed that it was indeed. Then I had to ask him how all this worked out.

Jason Howell (01:20:59):
I was curious, I told him, did my request show up on a website like Yelp? He said, Nope, it was a creepy computer voice, his words. So there you have it. And I now have a robot assistant that makes dinner reservations for me, who would've thought keep up the great work, bringing up all the aspects of these modern miracles to our curious minds. And he included some, some photo shots. So this is you know, in the assistant, there's the restaurant, there's a little reserve button that he used in, in assistant tap that I think if you go to the next one it pulls up kind of the confirmation, your reservation for party of two on this particular date and that reservation is placed or at least in the queue. And then I think the next screenshot is this like confirmation that it, that it happened, that it was, you know, on the schedule and upcoming. So there you go. You don't even have to call 'em anymore. It calls for you, anyone gonna use this <laugh>

Daniel Bader (01:21:59):
I would just be, I would be shocked if most people on the other end just didn't just hang up.

Jason Howell (01:22:05):
Yeah. I wondered about that too. It wasn't

Daniel Bader (01:22:06):
A real person,

Jason Howell (01:22:07):
Right?

Ron Richards (01:22:08):
Well, it's funny. I've been using screen the, the assistant screening option, you know, cuz I I'll be at work and I'll be on zoom. I'll be talking whatever and I'll see a phone call coming. I don't recognize the number and usually I'll just ignore it, let it go, let it go to voicemail. But now I'll like screen call and I watch the Google system do hello. You've reached someone who's using Google, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, let it say your thing. And then like immediately hang up. And like they stay on the, the phone long enough to hear the message and then, and then hang off, which I think is interesting. So yeah.

Jason Howell (01:22:35):
Yeah, I mean maybe it's different if it's a business because the business could be, you know, hearing or maybe they're used to it, like maybe they're getting enough of these. It's like, oh this is the Google reservation thing. You know what I mean? Like, are they going to turn away business? Only because it's a robotic voice making a reservation. Right. I don't know, you know, some people probably do, but I'm imagining, you know, hopefully they're getting at least a couple of these enough to know that they happen. And once that happens, then maybe they don't hang up. I don't know, but still, but I don't know that I have like, you know, our, our email or Jay waited a couple of days for the confirmation, for this reservation, with his wife. Like I don't know that I would've waited on, I probably would've called, you know, like, let's get this reservation on the books. I don't wanna trust that, that the assistant's gonna do it over the course of the next couple of days because it might be available now and not be available two days from now. It's a long time to risk it in my opinion, but still cool. Nonetheless, that, that it's possible.

Jason Howell (01:23:41):
All right. With that, we are at the end of this episode of all. Thank you so much for your email of the week, Jay you happy

Daniel Bader (01:23:49):
Anniversary

Jason Howell (01:23:50):
And happy anniversary. Yeah. And we will send you a plaque. No, we will not. We do not have a plaque. We'll give you an applause. There you go. <Laugh> appreciate. And thank you Daniel so much fun having you on always great to get you on the show and we your return to the show. You're triumphant return to the show. So happy

Daniel Bader (01:24:09):
To be

Jason Howell (01:24:09):
Here. Yeah. Tell tell people a little bit about what you're doing. I know you have a podcast like you just relaunched the Android police podcast. Tell us about that.

Daniel Bader (01:24:18):
I did. I missed podcasting so much that I relaunched the podcast with my former Android central coworker Wagner. So we it's a lot short order. We've kind of kept it to around 35 minutes. We have a bit of a, it's a bit of a format, which I, I like it's a round table. So everybody brings one topic that they want to talk about that week. And we talk about it for seven to 12 minutes and then we move on and there's, it's really not a news show unless there's a, it's, it's a newsy week. It's more like, you know, what do you have on your mind tech related this week that you wanna bring up? So it is a bit of a different show. We didn't wanna try to reproduce the eight Android central podcast because that exists. We didn't want to reproduce this great show because you guys are awesome. We wanted to do our own thing. So it's a, it's an alternative if you're looking for something a little bit shorter and new, and when I'm not hosting that I'm running Android police.com, I also run three other sites on the Val net tech network, including make use of.com the gamer.com and game rant.com. So a bunch of stuff, but yeah, this is awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great to be back

Jason Howell (01:25:26):
Well, Daniel, it's a, the it's always a pleasure getting you on, so thank you for, for hopping on. There we go. That's

Daniel Bader (01:25:32):
There you go. Thanks guys.

Jason Howell (01:25:34):
Yeah. Love you. Yeah. Thank you. Good to, good to have you on tonight and good to have you back, Ron, as always. What do you wanna leave people with? Yeah,

Ron Richards (01:25:41):
Just you follow me on Twitter and on Instagram at Ron O and you can go check out score bit in the Google, play Laura, if you're in a pinball check it out if you know, you know, so I'll just

Jason Howell (01:25:51):
Leave it at that. <Laugh> if you know, you know, right on. Thank you, Ron. Thank you, Victor, for for pushing the buttons for part of today's show. And then thank you, Burke for pushing buttons for the other part of today. I'm so confused buttons since six 30. Oh, okay. Victor's been on since six 30, so yeah, about the last 20 minutes. So it's a, it's a team effort. So thanks to you both. You can find me on Twitter at Jason Howell. Also tech news weekly every Thursday at.tv/tnw. I do that with Mike, a Sergeant interview show. So we have a lot of fun with that. Don't forget. We have club TWI, twi.tv/club TWI. You go there seven bucks a month. You get all of our shows with no ads. You, you don't even hear this ad by the way.

Jason Howell (01:26:38):
You also get an exclusive TWI plus podcast feed, lots of extra in his content like tonight, we before the show, we were talking about quadraphonic sound, we're talking a little bit about parenthood. And then Ron brought a tech problem to <laugh> to the pre-show. So you're probably gonna get all of that. If you're a member of club TWI and the TWI plus podcast feed and then also access to the members only discord, which is just a heck of a lot of fun. So seven bucks a month twi.tv/club TWI, that's it for this week's episode of all, about Android. We do the show every Tuesday evening. So twi.tv/a AA is the show page on the web for this show, go there. You can jump out to all the podcast catchers that we have listed there. You can also jump out to YouTube and S of there, if you prefer, or you can just watch it on the page. I don't know who, who actually just, you know, tunes in, you know, checks out the players on the page. I'm sure some of you do, but I would suggest you subscribe because then you don't have to do all that work. It just delivers to you like magic. And I love that new hero image there as well. I

Ron Richards (01:27:42):
Didn't even know that went up. Look how look at that. That was, that was a couple weeks ago.

Jason Howell (01:27:45):
Yeah. A couple of weeks ago. That's right. That's awesome. When Ron was in town so TWI TV slash AA, but that is it. We're gonna round things out. Thanks so much for watching and listening. We'll see you next time on all about Android. Bye. Everybody

Ron Richards (01:28:00):
Connect my friends. See ya.

Rod Pyle (01:28:04):
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle, editor of Ad Astra magazine and each week I'm joined by Tariq Malik, the editor in chief over at space.com in our new this in space podcast, every Friday Tariq And I take a deep dive into the stories that define the new space age, what's NASA up to when will Americans, once again set foot on the moon. And how about those samples in the perseverance Rover? When are those coming home? What the heck has Elon musk have done now, in addition to all the latest and greatest and space exploration, we'll take an occasional look at bits of space flight history that you probably never heard of and all with an eye towards having a good time along the way. Check us out in your favorite podcast Catcher.