Windows Weekly Episode 788 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for windows weekly. Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley here, the windows 10 22 H two mystery continues. The mystery to me is what does that mean? We'll find out, more uses for the word, Microsoft defender, more earnings learnings. What a week it's been and some Xbox news too. It's all coming up next with windows weekly podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWI.

Leo Laporte (00:00:38):
This is windows weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley episode 788 recorded Wednesday, August 3rd, 2022. A my tie of headwinds windows weekly is brought to you by in for scale infra scale delivers industry leading data protection through backup and disaster recovery, whatever your data or environment in infras scale provides continuity and resiliency for your business. Visit INFR get the free ebook five essential components of a ransomware protection plan and learn how to protect your business today. And by user user way is the world's number one accessibility solution. And it's committed to enabling the fundamental human right of digital accessibility for everyone. When you are ready to make your site compliant, designing which solution to use is an easy choice to make, go to user 30% off user ways. AI powered accessibility solution, and by Lenovo orchestrated by the experts at C D w to help transform your organization with Lenovo think pads, equipped to the Intel Evo platform for effortless connectivity and collaboration from anywhere. Learn more at client. It's time for windows weekly. Mr. And Mrs. Dozer. <laugh> hello, Mr. And Mrs. Dozer and all the ships at see, let's go to Paul thro, back home. Hello. He belongs Mary Jo Foley one week all about back home, where she belongs, where it's about a thousand degrees. Once again. Yes. Oh yes it is. <Laugh> oh,

Paul Thurrott (00:02:30):
Had it with the east coast

Leo Laporte (00:02:32):
On the surface of the sun now, you know why people move to Alaska, right? Paul, we were taking while we're sick. How

Paul Thurrott (00:02:38):
Chilly it? I can't I've I've dropping my wife Hensel for the past two weeks. You know, I keep talking about these guys that go up there for the summer and just work on a boat, whatever. Yeah. She's like, yeah, that's really interesting. I'm like, yeah, but wouldn't you wanna do that? You could be a push if

Leo Laporte (00:02:51):
I air ball, it'd be

Paul Thurrott (00:02:52):
Great. I know.

Leo Laporte (00:02:54):

Paul Thurrott (00:02:54):
I'm gonna skim the tree trap, the tree.

Leo Laporte (00:02:59):
Can't how hard can it be? You land in the water. I mean really? How hard can it be? <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:03:05):
Everyone can swim, right?

Leo Laporte (00:03:07):
Yeah. <Laugh> yeah. They ask that don't they? This is the windows weekly where we don't have a whole lot to talk about.

Paul Thurrott (00:03:16):

Leo Laporte (00:03:18):
Well, is it, am I wrong?

Paul Thurrott (00:03:20):

Leo Laporte (00:03:20):
Don't know. I'm looking at the rundown.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:03:22):
We have a lot of light items,

Leo Laporte (00:03:24):
Light items. <Laugh> this is tidbits. This

Paul Thurrott (00:03:26):
Will be like a, it's like a nineties talk show.

Leo Laporte (00:03:28):
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. It's just the top for your mind. Starting. Yes. With the windows 10 22 H two, as in what? Where is it? Is it here? Where is it? What's going on? You guys know? Right.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:03:48):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> we kind of know. Okay. I have to ask Paul something before we talk about this, is this the first build of 22 H shoe for windows 10, oof. Which they claimed,

Paul Thurrott (00:03:58):
I didn't think you were

 Mary Jo Foley (00:03:58):
Gonna, they claimed that they claimed that in the blog post. They did. I can't believe it either, but maybe.

Leo Laporte (00:04:05):

Paul Thurrott (00:04:06):
Well flashback to some indeterminate time, cuz I don't remember when this happened, but we had this conversation as we have had so much in the past year or two <laugh>, but how weird the insider program has gotten <laugh> and in this case, what I had said, and I think this was related, this might God, this could have been as long as a year ago, but it was something to do with, if your, if your computer was eligible for windows 11 and you were in the insider program, you would move up to the windows 11, you know, insider preview. But if it wasn't, you would be on windows 10. So it was kind of a weird way to get into it. There was no way to choose it. I think that was the conversation we had. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I, as a tester, can't go there and say right. I would like to be on the windows 10 channel or whatever. And now that might have been 20. Well, I feel like that had to have been what is now 22 H two, right? I

Leo Laporte (00:04:55):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:04:55):
I don't know.

Paul Thurrott (00:04:56):
I feel like if you've been on, in the insider program with windows 10 for the past year, since windows 11 has come up. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:05:02):
Right. You

Paul Thurrott (00:05:03):
Must have been testing something that became 22 H two. You had to have been right.

Leo Laporte (00:05:09):
Just to be clear. We windows 11 pioneers just have been using it for a while.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:15):
Oh yes, no, no, no. The technically sophisticated among us have already moved

Leo Laporte (00:05:18):
On I'm it's just the windows 10 lagger speaking

Paul Thurrott (00:05:22):
To the, the left behind crowd. Yes.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:05:24):
The giant majority of people who are still running windows 10 and not the

Leo Laporte (00:05:28):
Vast majority. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:29):
Yeah. Well, well, by the way, I, not the biggest problem with the insider program, but the, the lack of clarity on this is sort of astonishing and, and enters into the story. We're about to tell about the, the mystery such as it is.

Leo Laporte (00:05:43):
Right. So what is the mystery of this?

 Mary Jo Foley (00:05:45):
So the mystery is they put out a blog post last week saying, yeah, enterprises can start testing windows, 10 22 H two. It's in the release preview ring. And then you look and you're like, they don't say, say anything about it. There's not even a single mention of what's in this no feature list, nothing. And they said, don't worry. We're gonna tell you later this year, what's in this. Okay. So you're just blindly testing something that there's no change log publicly available for. I asked them, is this gonna be develop delivered using the cumulative update? You know type thing what do they call it again? I'm drawing a mental blank

Paul Thurrott (00:06:24):
Scope. Oh no, no. The the no package, the enablement package.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:06:28):
Yeah. Enablement package,

Paul Thurrott (00:06:30):
Pulling technology outta the end,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:06:32):
Right off your tongue. Right. And they said you know what, we're not gonna tell you that either. We're just gonna say it's going to be a scoped set of features, which is kind of the shorthand for yes. It is going to be via, I guess that's package.

Paul Thurrott (00:06:47):
I think that's what they said with 21 H two.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:06:50):
I think it is. I think it is too. I think so. Yeah. Yep. I

Paul Thurrott (00:06:54):
Can't believe we can't keep you straight was so clear. I,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:06:56):
I know, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:06:57):
It's like

 Mary Jo Foley (00:06:58):
We never, it was weird those before <laugh> it was weird to put out a blog post saying, we want enterprises to start testing this here's who can test it. Here's how people who aren't in the enterprise Chan who aren't enterprises, but who wanna be seekers contest it. But no, we're not gonna tell you the feature list. Like I'm like, okay, so this is kind of a weird thing. Won't say when it's coming out, right. We don't still know when it's coming. We think September, October around the same time as windows 1122 H two. But they won't say that publicly <laugh> so the thing is just like, wow, okay.

Paul Thurrott (00:07:31):
Like when this blog post first appeared.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:07:34):

Paul Thurrott (00:07:35):
They didn't explain features. They didn't say anything. So I, I actually wrote them and said, Hey, is there anything new in this release? You care, they didn't even mention that there were features coming that they weren't gonna talk about. They just didn't mention it. No.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:07:50):
So I said, then they added, knew, need to know.

Paul Thurrott (00:07:51):
Yeah. And then they added. Exactly. Yeah. And yeah, it just, I, why, what, listen, I feel like I've I made this speech. I could probably just find an old version of it, but here's the thing, normal people. Well, actually, who cares about normal people P there, there are two groups that matter here. One are the enthusiasts who are testing this thing that I think have a right to know what they're testing. Yeah. But more important is the business customers that Microsoft reli on for two thirds of its windows revenues who wanna be able to plan for the future, know what's going on. They've mixed everything up over the past year, right? One, one feature update a year. Just kidding. We can update at any time, what is going on? No discussion whatsoever about what is going on. I, I don't understand how they get away with this. I don't understand how their biggest customers aren't coming to them right now and saying, seriously, speak up. We need to know what's in

 Mary Jo Foley (00:08:44):
This thing. I know when I, when I saw what they did, I, I, I had two different opinions about what they're doing. One is they're trying to punish people who are still on windows 10. So they're gonna E out information as slowly as possible and not tell them. Right. The second thought is there's almost nothing new in this build. And they don't want all the it people to like put up a giant Harrah. Right? Like, yay. There's nothing in it. This is fantastic. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:08):
So yeah. It's not gonna be anything. Right. Even though we don't know, I think it's fair to say you're gonna see three to five, very minor enterprise oriented backend kind of features that aren't gonna matter to it.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:09:18):
And a bunch of fixes. Right. Well, let

Leo Laporte (00:09:20):
Me ask then is 22 H two on windows, 10 different from 22 H two on windows 11.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:09:27):

Leo Laporte (00:09:27):

Paul Thurrott (00:09:27):
Well, yes. Cause right. So there's no functional parody going on between these two

Leo Laporte (00:09:32):
Systems. So having seen it on windows 11 tells you nothing.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:36):
Well, it doesn't, I mean, listen, I think it was just last week we had this conversation about windows 11 being a I'm sorry, windows 1122 H two being a very minor release that yeah. There's a bunch of small stuff going into it. Right. almost none of those things could be described as a major update. Right. The snap thing is nice. Live captions is nice, et cetera. Right. None of those things are coming to windows

Leo Laporte (00:09:58):
Down. Oh, interesting. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (00:10:00):
So all, you know, for the most part, the new advances that you're gonna see in 11, not in 10.

Leo Laporte (00:10:06):

Paul Thurrott (00:10:06):
Which by the way, although, depending on how, you know, you may like,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:10:10):
Right. Although there's things like tabbed file Explorer and the redesign file Explorer, which they've hinted is gonna come back to windows 10. Maybe they've even said that outright. But it's not currently in the release preview for windows 11. And we don't know if it's in the release preview for windows 10. I haven't heard anybody say it was in, in that build for 22 crazy

Leo Laporte (00:10:30):
Thought here. I just, you know, I'm, you know, speaking at, you know, just kind of brainstorming here, would it be nice if they like made a list of, of the features

 Mary Jo Foley (00:10:40):
It would

Leo Laporte (00:10:41):
<Laugh> so you'd know, you know what you're gonna

Paul Thurrott (00:10:42):
Do? You know, if only there was some way to communicate with the world, maybe in a verifiable fashion, text based online, something I don't know,

Leo Laporte (00:10:53):
Is it because they do AB testing and so different people get different features. Is that why they don't

Paul Thurrott (00:11:00):
Really? I mean, right now, I don't think anyone on 22 H two on windows 10 is getting any new features. So I <laugh>, I'm sure that they're not shy about introducing that. So maybe

Leo Laporte (00:11:09):
So you could make a list, it'd be short, but you could make a list. I, I feel like if you wanted, I think people would want to like, what would wanna know very puzzle that people yes. Wouldn't they wanna know.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:11:21):
I don't know. No, we agree. We agree. A hundred percent. And I also am kind of surprised that there's no, I haven't seen this anywhere. I don't know if you have Paul, but like somebody who downloaded it post their own change log when they start

Leo Laporte (00:11:34):
Testing. Oh, would I didn't see that?

 Mary Jo Foley (00:11:35):
No, I said, I said I would be nice if

Paul Thurrott (00:11:37):
Somebody did it. I don't think anyone would notice anything. I bet there's nothing.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:11:40):
Yeah. That's probably what it is.

Leo Laporte (00:11:42):

Paul Thurrott (00:11:42):
The other thing is, you know what, Leo, to what Leo just said, which has kind of been our argument all along. I mean, you can't, you can't fight insanity with common sense. Like no one, no one is paying attention here. Like it's not like we're gonna say something where someone at Microsoft says, oh yeah, that makes sense. So yeah. <Laugh> why haven't we been doing that? I mean, I, I, yeah, they just don't do this. Hmm. I don't, it doesn't make any sense. Hmm.

Leo Laporte (00:12:06):
I think it must be. I mean, you know, I'm trying to project myself into their minds. 

Paul Thurrott (00:12:12):

Leo Laporte (00:12:12):
Which can be an experience. I'm thinking it must be because they don't want to promise any particular feature to any particular 22 H two user <laugh> like

Paul Thurrott (00:12:23):
I refused, I can't give them that benefit of

Leo Laporte (00:12:25):
The <laugh>. Well, maybe we'll test, you know, some of you might get you know, a new media player and some of you might not. So we don't wanna say that comes with sad. That would make sense. I mean, these are after all, these are not, well, are these in, these are inside still insider build. Yes. They're not.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:12:42):
They are.

Leo Laporte (00:12:43):
Yeah. Do, when they come out with the final update, do they put out a list? They do a table. Yes. Usually they do. I understand for the insider bills, they're not gonna say I, I get that. That makes sense.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:12:53):
Except that they're asking enterprises to download it and test, they should.

Leo Laporte (00:12:57):
Right. Great. Oh, but that's tested <laugh> that's the it version,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:13:00):
But still that's a, that's a big ask. If you don't tell people what's in, what's

Leo Laporte (00:13:04):
A machine in the crew. Remember the

 Mary Jo Foley (00:13:06):

Paul Thurrott (00:13:07):
The original version of this blog post didn't say anything about new features. They just said, here's the preview it, by the way, it's it the fir this, the alleged first preview build of windows 10 version 22 H two went to the release preview channel immediately. That's right. The last

 Mary Jo Foley (00:13:23):
Step that tells you everything you need to know. Right? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:25):
And that's really strange, no mention at all of new features, people like me compliant or asked, and then they add little update to the top of it that said, this will have a scoped set of features, which again, I think was the language they used for last year's update, which had almost nothing in it. Me too. And Microsoft will share more details on this update

Leo Laporte (00:13:42):
Later. What is scoped here? What does that mean? Again,

Paul Thurrott (00:13:44):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:13:45):
Enablement package

Leo Laporte (00:13:47):
Scoped. <Laugh> it's a scope

Paul Thurrott (00:13:49):
Enable. I think they're well for specific scenarios.

Leo Laporte (00:13:52):
Cause SEP and get it done with, if they really want us exactly hopes to be

Paul Thurrott (00:13:56):
Obscure. I think there's scoped to specific customer needs. Right. In other words, if they put out some kind, I'll just make something up like a, like some weird enterprise printer feature or something, something this isn't gonna impact. Most of the people that run windows 10, so right. This thing may exist. It may work when you need it, but no one needs it. So we're not most normal. People will never even know it exists.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:14:20):
Right. They don't wanna say there's nothing in this build. Like they don't wanna say that. Right. They don't wanna say it's a small set of se of features almost all, almost all fixes nothings in it. They don't wanna say those words. Right. So you telling

Paul Thurrott (00:14:33):
There aren't marketing people out there who couldn't turn this turd into some lemonade, right? Like you're going to, you're gonna just say, listen, we have spent the past year focusing relentlessly on quality. Exactly. This thing benefits from 12 months of Fe or security and bug fixes. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> this is a much better version of windows 10 than the one you were running last year.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:14:56):
Yep. That'll be the final blog post when it comes out. <Laugh> you just wrote it for them. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:15:02):
Something like that.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:15:03):
I dunno. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:15:04):
Well, there you go. So now I'm happy. That's all I needed to hear.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:15:09):
Right. So when people call in and they say, what about windows 10 22 H two to your radio show that you'll be like, yeah. Scoped set of features. Nothing's in it. Don't worry. <Laugh> well,

Paul Thurrott (00:15:20):
Actually, I mean, for the people who call in for, for him, like normal people. Yeah. Literally it doesn't mean anything. It's not gonna change your lives at all. Right? Yeah. The, the, the bigger change that could occur to a windows 10, actually, Leo kind of alluded to this was these updated apps that probably in many cases will make their way to windows 10. Right. So they redesigned the, or they create a media player app. They release to

Leo Laporte (00:15:40):
Windows, but that'll come separate from a, an update.

Paul Thurrott (00:15:43):
Yeah. It's not tied to 22

Leo Laporte (00:15:45):
HD. Yeah. Right. Great. That's right. So you'll see. Okay. yeah. PE I, you know, I think radio, the radio people <laugh>, don't really, aren't really insiders. I try to tell 'em though. Don't do the insiders thing. Yeah. but the messaging that Microsoft puts out pretty clearly is use whenever the, you know, update comes out, you wanna apply that 1 20, 22 H one. If there were such a thing 22 H two, when there is such a thing, you should do those mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yep. And, and generally it doesn't, it's not about new features. It's like, well, it's gonna be patches and fixes and security updates and all that stuff over and above that's what's confusing. Cuz you got your patch Tuesday.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:16:37):
Yeah. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:16:38):
And you're not adding new features. So what is this? 22 H two.

Paul Thurrott (00:16:41):
Well, it's just a, it's a way to rev the version number. You know, it's

Leo Laporte (00:16:46):
Just, it's just a number. Is that what you're saying? It is, it's just a

 Mary Jo Foley (00:16:48):
Number and, and to start, start the support clock ticking. Right. That's right.

Paul Thurrott (00:16:51):
It's a point of support. That's exactly right.

Leo Laporte (00:16:53):
Yeah. So that's what it really is. It's putting a flag in the sand saying, okay, now we're on 22 H two. And this from,

Paul Thurrott (00:17:01):
By the way, the next

Leo Laporte (00:17:02):
Three years will be good or

Paul Thurrott (00:17:04):
Whatever. Yeah. Leah and I were away for this, but the, the week that the windows 12 rumors kind of came up, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, one of the key questions that Microsoft asked to have there, if they're gonna move from windows 11 to 12 or maybe keep it on windows 11 for some number of years, is that exact topic because this resetting of the support clock is very important to Microsoft's business customers, especially mm-hmm <affirmative> so you could have a system that is now three years old and we rev it to windows 12 and well guess what, now you get X number of years of support. That may not be what they're, you know, they necessarily,

Leo Laporte (00:17:38):
So, so, okay. So I'm just trying to think of formulating my, what I will say when somebody does ask me about this, which is, don't worry about it when the don't get on the insider ring, whatever you do when the time comes, right. You will be, it'll be pushed to you. It may have some subtle new features in this case, probably, you know, hardly anything, but it does establish a new date for support. So you need to do it because I have a lot of listeners who are saying I'm I'm on, you know, whatever it is, 1803

Paul Thurrott (00:18:13):
Or 18 nine, they, they might never be on anything else. That might be a

Leo Laporte (00:18:16):
Different problem, but that's yeah. But so then they say, so what do I do? Cause I'm not gonna, I'm on 1809. And they say, I'm out of date. I, you know, I'm out of support.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:27):
I mean, well, see, I would tell my audience,

Leo Laporte (00:18:30):
What would you tell your audience? And I'll paraphrase it in English.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:33):
Go ahead. I would tell them to download the latest version of the ISO.

Leo Laporte (00:18:36):
Yeah. That's what I'd tell. 'em

Paul Thurrott (00:18:37):
Double click it and run setup and do these do an update.

Leo Laporte (00:18:41):
What is the what is the timeframe for these end of life? Is it three years? Is it 18 months? What is the

 Mary Jo Foley (00:18:52):
It's? It's all different depending on which addition of windows you're using.

Leo Laporte (00:18:56):
It's so complicated.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:18:57):
It's so complicated. Summer, 30 months, some 18 months it's

Leo Laporte (00:19:00):
This comes, this comes out of the idea that Microsoft has, which probably most people have, which is, I don't care. What version of windows I'm on. I'll get the new one when I buy a new PC. Yeah. But people are not buying

Paul Thurrott (00:19:10):
New PC Microsoft. Yes, that's right. And, and, and to be fair to Microsoft, they do a lot of things that maybe I don't agree with. I don't think that this particular thing was malicious. It's more along the lines of like for most individuals with PCs, the idea wasn't, although they did this with windows 11. Right. But the idea wasn't oh, sorry, you're outta support. Now you have to buy a new computer. The idea was more along the lines of, we will support particular versions of windows 10 for 18 months or maybe three years. <Laugh> you need to upgrade to a newer version. Some sometime in that timeframe. So it, it would be very unusual for any person. I think, to spend 18 months neglecting to update to a new version of windows, it would, it'd be very hard to do because eventually

Leo Laporte (00:19:55):
It on you anyway. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:19:56):
That's right. Eventually you

Leo Laporte (00:19:58):
Get it. That's right. Again, separate from patch Tuesdays. So I always say, yeah, yeah. You always want patch Tuesday because there's zero days. And you will have a little more time to go to the, what did we call these <laugh> releases point releases. I don't know what we call

Paul Thurrott (00:20:16):
These. There's so much language into this stuff. There is its so hard. So there's, there's this notion of feature updates. It's a feature.

Leo Laporte (00:20:22):
What? Yeah, it's a feature update. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (00:20:25):
A feature update is technically just a, a cumulative update. Really? It's it's and they release cumulative update, cumulative updates all the time. But Microsoft also refers to things like they have this notion of a quality update, right? A quality update is not a feature update. It's something that is just bugger security fix.

Leo Laporte (00:20:43):
Oh God, it's so

Paul Thurrott (00:20:44):
Complicated. I, I, I knows. No, it's more, I don't even wanna get down this rabbit sprint

Leo Laporte (00:20:48):
Pool sent me the page, which it has the windows 10 home and pro you know, update cycles. But it, it says windows 10 and home and pro follows the modern life cycle policy. What the hell is the modern life? So clicked that link.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:04):
Have you? Yeah. Have you followed, are, are you into chaos science at all? It's sort of like it's sort of like that it's,

Leo Laporte (00:21:12):
It would be almost impossible for somebody to look at this and know what they need to do.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:16):
Right. That's exactly right.

Leo Laporte (00:21:18):
And then it has a link right at the top of modern life cycle policy, which says, please go here to search for your products, life cycle mm-hmm <affirmative> and then <laugh> oh God, I've just, I'm so lost. Yeah. I'm so lost. And my listeners are the ones who are getting text messages, saying you're overdrawn at your bank, please call us and falling for it. So these people are not

Paul Thurrott (00:21:44):
Mary Jo knows this better than anybody. If you go back in time, five, 10, whatever number is and say what's the most complicated thing about being a Microsoft customer. They would say licensing. Yeah. So Microsoft has very clearly brought the licensing guys over to this because they've turned something that used to the same

Leo Laporte (00:22:00):
Guys really clear cut. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:22:02):
It has turned it into something insanely complex.

Leo Laporte (00:22:05):
So as of May 10th, 20 H two expired <laugh> so you 20 H two 20 H two. So you have to be on at least 21 H one, which will end of life. December 13th.

Paul Thurrott (00:22:20):
There you go.

Leo Laporte (00:22:21):
And then 21 H two, June 13th of next year. So that's roughly every six months

Paul Thurrott (00:22:27):
Interesting that they have a November 16th date right there.

Leo Laporte (00:22:30):
Start date November 16th, 22.

Paul Thurrott (00:22:32):
Oh, that was last year. I'm sorry. That's 21. H

Leo Laporte (00:22:34):
That's 21 H one. Yep. Or H two rather. So

 Mary Jo Foley (00:22:39):
So most, most of your listeners, I'm looking this up right now. Home additions of, of windows 10 are 18 months of support home and pro 18 months, enterprise and education 30.

Leo Laporte (00:22:51):
That's where it goes kind of nutty, but we don't have to work. Yeah. I don't have to regret that radiation. Okay. Mm-Hmm I'm sorry. But again,

Paul Thurrott (00:22:57):
The point isn't you have you've, you're using something that's only gonna work for 18 months. The point is you, your, your hardware is compatible with ones 10, sometime in the next 18 months, you have to upgrade to it. Some new version, right. It doesn't have to be, well, it actually does have to be the latest version. You don't have to go to every single version. Although like Leo, I said, actually <laugh> if you just test, look for updates, you're gonna get it. There's nothing you can do to stop. It's gonna happen. It will happen. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:23:22):
It's gonna happen. It's harder to explain when there's no when a feature update has no new features harder to explain, well, how does this distinct from the patch Tuesday, monthly updates. What am I getting here? And what you're telling me is this is as much for Microsoft's business reasons as it is. It is for actual updates to windows. It's not really so much about updating windows. It's more about saying, okay, support starts. The support tech clock has now been bumped mm-hmm <affirmative> up another six months.

Paul Thurrott (00:23:53):
Yep. And in keeping with what we've been talking about for the past few weeks, Microsoft has made it very clear that they can and will add new features to at least to windows 11. Anytime they feel like it in

Leo Laporte (00:24:04):
Yeah. Through the store and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:07):
Just through whatever means they have. Yeah. And so yeah, there are, there are three or four weeks. Well, there are at least three weeks of updates we can get as windows used as every month. Microsoft can throw that stuff out there whenever they feel like it mm-hmm <affirmative> and they do.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:24:20):
And we don't know what in the future, how many months of support you'll get on future versions of windows like windows 12 or whatever the next major release is called.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:31):
Yeah. This is, this is like one item and a longer list of items I have in an article I'm working on, but we talk about seekers, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> this notion that if you just navigate to windows update and the settings app, you're a seeker, which is not the way life should work. Right. That should be the place you go to see if there are any pending updates. And then you say as the user, whether or not you want them, but the, the very act of navigating to that page causes up it to look for updates and then there's no stop it. Right. There's, there's really no way to stop it. There is really a way to stop it. But as far, like for normal people, there's no way to stop it. It's kind of like, you know, if you walked onto a car lot, sat in a car and they say, Hey, congratulations, you just bought it. And like, what are you talking about? I'm just sitting here. Right? You went in the car. So now it's yours. <Laugh>, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, it's, it's, it's not the agreement that you thought you made. And I, and this is the, for all the stuff that's awful about Microsoft and windows and whatever. I think this is one of those things that maybe doesn't get talked about enough. And maybe

 Mary Jo Foley (00:25:29):

Paul Thurrott (00:25:29):
<Affirmative> should be looked at frankly by regulators or whatever. It's a very, it's a very anti customer policy. It's a very strange strangely kind of antagonistic way

 Mary Jo Foley (00:25:41):
To do things. I saw a funny conversation on Twitter about this last week, because okay. There was an it pro who was asking somebody at Microsoft who worked on windows update. Why do you make it? So I have to on windows 11, click multiple places to see my windows, update history and to check which updates are installed. And the person said it's because we don't want people doing that. Oh, we don't want people going there.

Leo Laporte (00:26:06):
Oh, we intentionally make it complicated. Right. So you and the

 Mary Jo Foley (00:26:09):
God, but then the person also said, but we're also thinking how we can make this simpler for it. Pros because you all don't wanna have to do two clicks instead of one to go see this information. But we're trying, we're trying to go on the assumption that most normal people should never look at windows update. You should just never look at it.

Leo Laporte (00:26:27):
This is really pissing me off. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:26:31):
All right. Why? I mean, why don't you just make windows update a command line interface and then no one will look at it. Yeah,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:26:36):
Yeah. That would be good, actually. Cuz then it pros could get right to it. Right. And handle it. And normal people would have to really

Paul Thurrott (00:26:44):
That's that's interesting that you said this because this is actually my central premise, which is that we often talk about how crazy Microsoft is with windows and what are they doing? And there's no strategy. And I think there is a strategy me

Leo Laporte (00:26:56):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:26:57):
And I think

Paul Thurrott (00:26:57):
It's trying to overcome decades of just kind of natural evolution of windows and frankly, thanks to their business customers who demand that they keep everything in windows and never drop compatibility with everything. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> we've got this kind of archeological dig of technology layers. It's a mess. Yeah. And it's got different ways to do different things. It's like eight day different ways to do things. And they're trying, you know, they wanna make it simple and it's really hard to make this giant mess of whatever it is. Simple. And I think they're, they're trying mm-hmm <affirmative> but you know, they're losing us well, they're losing enthusiasts as they do this. And I think that's the calculated risk. I mean, they want the mainstream, you know, apples market power is not based on enthusiasts, not in the technical, you know, like technical enthusiast. These people are obviously enthusiast of apple, but they're they're mainstream customers. Like they're just normal people. And mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, that's what Microsoft wants. They want the normal people,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:27:53):
Right? That's the trade off. Right? Like you, you and Leo always say people who are tinkerers and people who like to be able to customize, you always picked windows and you picked Android. Cuz those are the ones you can customize. Right, right. That's right. But now Microsoft's leaning more into the idea of no, we want windows to be simple, like Mac. Right. So the more they make it that way, the less they're gonna make it customizable. That's gonna be the trade off. That's

Paul Thurrott (00:28:18):
Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly right.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:28:19):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:22):
Apple does not. I'm trying to think apple doesn't really publish anything like this and they don't have an insider's program. Well actually they do. They have public betas. Well,

Paul Thurrott (00:28:30):
No. So actually that's a good comparison because you could go to Apple's website right now. Look at the page that they have for the beta version of iOS 16 or Mac OS, Ventura, whatever it's called or iPad, OS whatever they have this beautiful magazine, like spread that goes downs. Multiple pages. Yeah. All the features it's aimed at people. Yeah. It's written in simple English. It's marketing speak. So it's like how exciting and it,

Leo Laporte (00:28:54):
No, they hire people from, they hire our hosts. Yeah. <Laugh> people like Rin Caldwell to write those things. Really good.

Paul Thurrott (00:29:02):
They're nice journalists.

Leo Laporte (00:29:03):
Know what they're doing?

Paul Thurrott (00:29:04):
People. Yeah. Normal people will read that and get excited about it. Maybe, you know, there isn't any Leo just showed a bunch of Microsoft screens. I, this is they're they're designed. So no one reads them. It's not attractive. You, you fall asleep reading these things. Yeah. They're awful. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and then you don't learn anything at the end. You're like, well, Hey, you set out to find out what was new and the next version of windows 10. What's new. I have no idea. I don't even know if it's coming now. I'm I'm actually confused. Do they make windows 10? No. I mean it's it's

Leo Laporte (00:29:30):
Is it unnecessarily complex you think? And or is it intentionally so well I don't know. It feels like don't this is part of the ethos of windows. It's like, well it's yes. It's kind of, you're kind of it's it's kind of nerdy

Paul Thurrott (00:29:46):
You're you're on candid camera all the time with windows. Like, is this real? Did this really

 Mary Jo Foley (00:29:51):
Happen? Windows? No. And also it it's complicated because there's not just one version. Right? Like there's all these different versions, right? The apple, each one has a different number of features.

Leo Laporte (00:30:00):
There's no pro and home Macs pro home enterprise. Yeah. None of that, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:30:04):
No. The other thing is, and apple, this might make Microsoft crazy. Remember the goal with windows 10 Terry Myers said in January, 2015 is to have every single user on windows on the same version of windows that was windows as a service, right? Yep. Meanwhile, apple will come out with some random version of iOS, whatever. And then one month later they're like, Hey, 83% of the user bases are version <laugh> you know, like they're doing exactly what Microsoft wants to do. Yeah. But the problem you can't get that stuff to happen unless you do all those other things. Leo just mentioned, which is we don't have eight versions of Mac OS. We have one, we don't have eight versions of iOS or iPad. We have one. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:30:41):
The difference is apple. It's a hardware company. Yeah.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:30:45):
Although there's and they don't have as many business users. Yeah. That's that's who's

Leo Laporte (00:30:49):
Although the distinguishing feature of, of Apple's hardware is also, their

Paul Thurrott (00:30:53):
Microsoft has built its business on complexity. Think about office 365, the different skews, the E three E five, all the add-ons, all the stuff you can tack on to it, how much you could spend per user per month. You know, the entry level one is probably four or 5 99 per month. But I don't know what the upper level one looks like. You add Microsoft or windows 365, all the add. I bet you could spend 50, $70 something per month per user.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:31:19):
I bet more,

Paul Thurrott (00:31:19):
More. Maybe I'm just, yeah. Maybe

 Mary Jo Foley (00:31:21):
More hundreds, hundreds of dollars

Paul Thurrott (00:31:23):
UCR. Because there's like a,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:31:24):

Paul Thurrott (00:31:24):
An Excel spreadsheet of all the stuff you can pay for. If that's what you want to do. Yeah. It's a completely different way of doing things. But honestly, the, I really feel Leo said hardware and that's true, you know, hardware versus software. But I think the real differentiation there, the big difference between apple and Microsoft is Microsoft found success with businesses. Yeah. And apple found success with people. Yeah. And it's, it just makes your products completely different.

Leo Laporte (00:31:49):

Paul Thurrott (00:31:50):
So we're, we, as individuals are suffering from this enterprise focus, we, we, because we're reading something, that's not meant for normal people. And we're like, what, what is this thing? Mm. And it's like, it's not, it's not for you. It's for some nerd in an ivory tower. Yeah. Telling his users why they can't do things.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:32:06):

Paul Thurrott (00:32:06):
You know, I it's, I don't know. I, I it's, I wish it wasn't this way. I, I, for many, many years, could you just make one version of windows? <Laugh>, you know, why, why can't all the features be there for everybody. You can just charge businesses more for the support, but that's not, you know, that's not the business model. They know what they're doing. Obviously they're a pretty big company. Last time I checked mm-hmm <affirmative> and I'm a pretty small person. Last time I checked. So, you

 Mary Jo Foley (00:32:30):
Know, they're keeping a lot of licensing experts and partners in business with the complexity <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:32:36):

Paul Thurrott (00:32:37):

Leo Laporte (00:32:39):
We got, we really Mo this windows tennis story. I see a lot more outta

 Mary Jo Foley (00:32:43):
That. You thought we were gonna whip right through that,

Leo Laporte (00:32:44):
But no. All right. Well, let's, let's take a break then and regroup. Think about what we've just learned and we'll be we'll be back with the, you not to be depressed by it. Yeah. We're gonna go to windows 11 next kids. How exciting is that? Windows weekly is brought to you by INFR scale. Do you know the name INFR scale? INFR scale is a great choice for fighting ransomware, boy, I mean, and we need that. Don't we, the statistics for ransomware are alarming to say the least cyber criminals. It is estimated to penetrate 93% of company networks. This is from beta 93% of us are vulnerable by the way, not just big companies, SMBs 46% of SMBs have already been a victim. Almost half have already been hit by ransomware. So we, and we talk about this on security. Now, a lot too, that, you know, one of the very first things that solves this is a good backup is.

Leo Laporte (00:33:50):
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Leo Laporte (00:34:45):
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Leo Laporte (00:36:59):
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Paul Thurrott (00:37:33):
Mary Jo Foley is turning at the discord to Sorachi central.

Leo Laporte (00:37:38):
Well <laugh> can you blame her?

 Mary Jo Foley (00:37:40):
What's wrong with this?

Leo Laporte (00:37:42):
That's A's a beautiful kitty cat. That's a gorgeous kitty cat. <Laugh> that's a kitty cat. We all love it's a Ruchi time named after a hop. Yes. Yes.

Paul Thurrott (00:37:55):
So Leo, I have to, you know, kind of come clean on this. We borrowed the lead today.

Leo Laporte (00:38:02):
Uhoh <laugh> something huge happened.

Paul Thurrott (00:38:05):
There's a new build of witness 10 11 for the dev channel that adds an Xbox game pass widget. And I gotta tell you

Leo Laporte (00:38:12):

Paul Thurrott (00:38:13):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:38:13):
We went back and forth about making that the lead we had to, we, we have some tug of war, like our logo.

Paul Thurrott (00:38:19):
We looked into licensing the song. We are the champ for this part of the show, but it was

Leo Laporte (00:38:23):
Little excited. My time. I didn't have a widget, but now I do

Paul Thurrott (00:38:29):
Agree game changer.

Leo Laporte (00:38:30):
Right. So what does this widget do? It just sits there and tells you what game you were playing before you go

Paul Thurrott (00:38:35):
To work. Yeah, it just looked like, I don't know what the point of it is. Honestly, I it's the

Leo Laporte (00:38:38):
Stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life, but

Paul Thurrott (00:38:40):
I, I

Leo Laporte (00:38:41):
Wait a minute. It's not even the game you're playing. It highlights new additions to the game, past library and games. So it's really just an ad. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:38:50):
I mean, that's, that's a, that's

Leo Laporte (00:38:52):

Paul Thurrott (00:38:52):
Re it's

Leo Laporte (00:38:53):
Harsh is that harsh?

Paul Thurrott (00:38:54):

Leo Laporte (00:38:55):
That's harsh, harsh, but not wrong. Harsh, but not wrong. It game past widget. It's not your games. It's the games you could be buying

Paul Thurrott (00:39:03):
It's right. Well, if you're a game past subscriber, you would want this widget and you're already paying for them, so, oh yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:39:08):
It's and yeah. Okay. So it cost you nothing. Let's, you know,

Paul Thurrott (00:39:11):
There's another big feature though.

Leo Laporte (00:39:13):
There's more,

Paul Thurrott (00:39:14):
Yeah. For those few users who are in the dev channel and have tabs and file Explorer, by the way. Oh, actually I don't really have that many computers in the dev channel. I only have it on one computer. So you can now <laugh> you can, I'm try to say with this, the straight face, like it means something you can now middle click a stuff. You can now middle click a folder in the navigation, pain. What? And it, and it works like a right click.

Leo Laporte (00:39:39):
I can,

Paul Thurrott (00:39:39):
I can, oh, no, it doesn't. It works to open in a new tab. I

Leo Laporte (00:39:42):
Can sorry. Middle click. Ooh.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:45):
Now I would imagine I don't have this in front of me, so I can't tell, but I'm guessing if you right. Click a folder in the navigation pain, in a tab based file, explore window. One of the items in there will be open in a new tab. I'm sure that's one of them, but this is a quick way to do it. If you have that middle button, you can. How about that? Window's 10 thing though. Huh? That was

Leo Laporte (00:40:04):
Yeahs. Really interesting. I think that's a little more interesting. Okay. Well I'm just, I'm glad cuz my middle button right now I'm clicking it and it doesn't do nothing. Nothing, right? It doesn't

Paul Thurrott (00:40:13):
Do nothing.

Leo Laporte (00:40:14):
Clicking. Doesn't do nothing. So Hey, I got a whole button here. That's right. Just waiting.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:20):
Yep. Windows 11 is all about using all the buttons.

Leo Laporte (00:40:24):
<Laugh> <laugh> many, many buttons. All right. Yeah. Well that's that's that's wait. There's more. Oh wait. There's more

Paul Thurrott (00:40:32):
Last week. And I guess this happened after the show, maybe on Thursday or something. Microsoft released.

Leo Laporte (00:40:37):
I broke my mouse. Two builds. Wait a minute. I broke my

Paul Thurrott (00:40:41):
Yeah, no one uses that button. It's not

Leo Laporte (00:40:42):
Very the mouse resilient now it's not moving anymore.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:46):
Oh boy.

Leo Laporte (00:40:46):
Oh, is that Del mouse? Yeah, it's a Dell mouse. I didn't hit it that hard.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:54):
Maybe you popped a battery loose. Did you look in the bottom there?

Leo Laporte (00:40:58):
Mm. You know it has. Okay. There's one bad thing about this Dell mouse. I have to say. Mm. It has this button here, which is really easy to hit. Yeah. That switches the Bluetooth channel. Yes. Like I, I don't know why I wouldn't. No, no, I'm fine. Bluetooth.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:12):
That's that right there. That is an amazing user interface. That's crazy.

Leo Laporte (00:41:16):
That's shouldn't be there because that's right where your Palm goes. So I think when I hit it, I switched now I have to remember where I am. Am I on one, two or three?

Paul Thurrott (00:41:27):
This is like a presets for a seat and a car <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:41:31):

Paul Thurrott (00:41:31):
The seat with the wrong button. Put 'em on the seat. Jammed up against the seat. You know, the

Leo Laporte (00:41:35):
Steering wheel. Yeah. And put it on the seat. That's the thing. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:38):
Yeah. Put it on the seat.

Leo Laporte (00:41:39):
Where does, I guess if I had three laptops I was using with one mouse. This would be useful.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:44):
That's that's as aspir. Oh, it's moving. Dell's part. It

Leo Laporte (00:41:48):
Did it, but now, oh, that's even better. The light went out. So I don't know which one it was

 Mary Jo Foley (00:41:54):

Leo Laporte (00:41:55):
Okay. But it's working now anyway, back to the show

Paul Thurrott (00:41:58):
UI by Microsoft licensing. Alright. So sometime in the past week, Microsoft released two new beta channel builds of windows 11. Remember the beta channel has been split in two. Some people are testing new features and some aren't mm-hmm <affirmative>

 Mary Jo Foley (00:42:14):
Cause this was yesterday. By the way, this was

Paul Thurrott (00:42:16):
Yesterday. Oh, was yesterday I'm sorry. Yeah. I don't even pay attention anymore. All right. So was yesterday it was in the past week. Nothing. what happened? I just tapped my

Leo Laporte (00:42:27):
<Laugh> don't

Paul Thurrott (00:42:28):
You desk in my

Leo Laporte (00:42:29):
Have one of those mices <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:42:31):
No, I just, it just changed this. Okay.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:42:34):
It made a point.

Paul Thurrott (00:42:35):
I got an online notification that my microphone had changed. Anyway. I will stop typing my

Leo Laporte (00:42:39):
Mess. It did. Microphone has changed.

Paul Thurrott (00:42:41):
Is it not back to

Leo Laporte (00:42:43):
No, it's something weird now. It's good. I kinda like it. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:42:48):
Wow. You're

Leo Laporte (00:42:49):
A little louder. I think just leave it.

Paul Thurrott (00:42:55):
I think it's gonna leave it alone anyway. 

Leo Laporte (00:42:57):
<Laugh> maybe you were on the wrong mic all

Paul Thurrott (00:42:59):
This time. Maybe I was on the maybe sounds

Leo Laporte (00:43:00):
Good. I dunno.

Paul Thurrott (00:43:01):
Yeah. Okay. So there's nothing really much to speak of here in the way of new features. Some security networking stuff. Not really much. I don't not nothing really. So this was kind of an innocuous series of builds. If you will, right. There you go. There you go. It's even more exciting than last thing.

Leo Laporte (00:43:24):
Well then let's go to the item three under windows 11, the windows mm-hmm <affirmative> subsystem for Android.

Paul Thurrott (00:43:30):
Yeah. This one's even more exciting. Now, if you are using a windows insider build of any Stripe and have windows 11 you will start getting an update for the windows subsystem for Android that enables joysticks and game pads and anti Android games. Okay. <laugh> so I guess what were we doing before? I guess you would mostly designed for probably for multitouch. I guess we were using it on a tablet, but now you can interact with games, I guess that would support it. And if you've looked through the games list, that's available through the Amazon app store for Android, you know, there's nothing there,

Leo Laporte (00:44:04):
Nothing you want,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:44:06):
But that's all there are, right. It's just games that's in the, in the

Paul Thurrott (00:44:09):
Store. No, this, this

Leo Laporte (00:44:11):

Paul Thurrott (00:44:11):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:44:11):
This several apps, like one or two other apps plus a million days. Well,

Paul Thurrott (00:44:15):
No one wants, there's a double digit number of apps. It's like 11, maybe or

Leo Laporte (00:44:19):
13. Okay.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:44:20):
11 that's good.

Leo Laporte (00:44:21):
<Laugh> guys do.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:23):
It's not many

Leo Laporte (00:44:24):
All. Okay. Cause it's not the Android store. Really? It's the Amazon fire store. Yep. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Paul Thurrott (00:44:31):
It's like Android.

Leo Laporte (00:44:33):
<Laugh> it's Android. Like <laugh> okay. It's yeah. All right. Good. Well, that was exciting. Yeah. And now it's time for Mary Jo. We're kind of, are we starting to divide everything up into Paul and Mary Jo's stories? Like now's the Microsoft 365 time? No, no, that's not all. That's not all Mary Kay. No.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:44:53):

Paul Thurrott (00:44:53):
Will change. Well, we're keeping with our, with our new logo. We we're kind of, we're doing the back and, and forth.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:44:59):

Leo Laporte (00:44:59):
Oh, you like the tug of war finally? Huh? Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm you're the only, we're trying to embrace it. Everybody hates it. Everybody hates it. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:45:05):
You know what? I, I think I said this earlier, but if I didn't, it re it's sort of like the name Pentium. The first time I heard it, I was like, Nope. And then over time I was like, yeah, it's fine. <Laugh> like, you just kinda get,

Leo Laporte (00:45:15):
Get used to it.

Paul Thurrott (00:45:16):
OK. And you don't think anything of it. Okay. And I think it's fine. I

Leo Laporte (00:45:18):
Like it's fine. I spent thousands of dollars on it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so you better like what?

Paul Thurrott (00:45:22):
Hopefully two main

 Mary Jo Foley (00:45:24):

Leo Laporte (00:45:25):
Yeah. Oh yeah. It was, it was yeah. Many hours devoted focus groups up the Wazo.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:45:32):

Leo Laporte (00:45:33):

Paul Thurrott (00:45:33):
What do you think of these two? What do you think the most? They fight a lot. They're like an old married couple

Leo Laporte (00:45:38):
<Laugh>. Yeah. That's what I told them. Microsoft. All right. I'm gonna get a cup of coffee. You're in charge. Microsoft 365. Excellent. It's all yours. I'm gonna go to coffee. Okay. We got this.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:45:49):
Excellent. All right. So outlook light. We heard about this in early July when Microsoft put it on the, on the Microsoft 365 roadmap. So they put an item saying we get we're building the saying outlook light it's for Android devices, lower end. Then when we asked Microsoft about it in early July, they said, yeah, we have nothing to say. I'm like, yeah, it's on your roadmap though. Like you put it, you put it on the roadmap,

Paul Thurrott (00:46:13):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:46:14):
<Laugh> okay. Anyway, it's starting to roll out. Now as of this week August 1st is the official date. It is exactly what the room roadmap said. It is a light version of outlook. It can work on Android devices with only one gig of Ram. Like it's, it's meant for very low end supports two G networks, 3g networks. And as we suspected, it's only designed for people in certain countries. So it only works in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Columbia, Ecuador, India, Mexico, Peru, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, and Venezuela. They said they may add some more countries, but that's it for right now? It's in the play store. You can go get it. Everybody who I'm seeing, who's trying it out is saying yes, good has all the things. Outlook has email calendar contacts. It's just more stripped down. It's not meant for business customers. So it doesn't support the Android work profile or mobile application management. It's not meant for those kind of scenarios. It's meant for individuals. And I support is

Paul Thurrott (00:47:19):
Literally called and outlook

 Mary Jo Foley (00:47:21):
Outlook light. L I T E. Yes it is. It works with currently works with, Hotmail live MSN, Microsoft 365 and exchange online. And they said in the future, we're gonna add third party accounts and multiple accounts, but they didn't give a date for that. Okay. So yeah. I, you know what else I asked them. I asked them if it came out of some acquisition or if it was just them stripping outlook down to its essence. And they said, we have nothing to say, which is kind of odd about that. <Laugh> yeah, they wouldn't answer the

Paul Thurrott (00:47:57):
Question. It seems like if this thing was architected correctly, they would base all mobile versions of outlook on this thing and then just add stuff to it for the normal client.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:48:06):
Right. Maybe, maybe that's why they don't wanna say, because outlook mobile is everybody who listens to the show knows is ly basically right. Another one of their acquisitions. So yeah, I, it just was kind of disappointing cuz you figured when they said back in early July, we can't talk about it. I'm like, oh, maybe there's something interesting. Cool. Secret about it. Nope. It's exactly what you thought. It was a stripped down version outlook for low end devices for people in certain countries. Maybe when you're in Mexico, you could get a low end. And it

Paul Thurrott (00:48:36):
Was literally I, well, I just, I should be able to justt install it. Right. It should work on any device. Yeah. I'm kind of curious about that. I often,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:48:44):
Yeah, they said, they said they made it sound like it was tied to users in the country, but you can probably change your settings just to try it.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:52):
Yeah. Or use a VPN or something.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:48:54):
Right. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:55):
I, I mean, I, you know, we we've talked about the Microsoft office client, which is kind of a lightweight version of the standalone app. I like that app a lot. I, I like the idea of a light app. Why wouldn't I wanna lower resource version of this thing on my phone. Yeah. You

 Mary Jo Foley (00:49:09):
Know, I know.

Paul Thurrott (00:49:11):
And I'd like to see what the missing stuff is so I could make a, well, right now it's multiple accounts. So that would be a deal break. But it is. Yeah. But I'm curious about that. That's interesting.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:49:20):

Paul Thurrott (00:49:21):
Yeah. When I go to Mexico, I'll see if I can get it.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:49:23):
Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So that's it. That's how outlook light

Paul Thurrott (00:49:29):
In other I'll

 Mary Jo Foley (00:49:30):
The next one is funny. <Laugh> next one is funny. Uber emails are crashing outlook. <Laugh> yeah. Not funny, but this

Paul Thurrott (00:49:38):
Is entertaining to be clear. This is the, I believe this is the desktop client, right? So yeah. This is not outlook mobile, but you know, when you use Uber, they say you were receipt via email and there's something about that receipt. I think it's some kind of a table they use or something complex table mm-hmm <affirmative> it actually causes outlooks to stop running. And if you're using word, because remember word is often used as the display engine for emails mm-hmm <affirmative> it will actually cause word <laugh> word to stop responding. I don't know why,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:50:07):
Man. You're laughing. It's not funny. Paul, what about Lyft though? Is it only happened with Uber or also Lyft?

Paul Thurrott (00:50:15):
That's so weird that Uber emails are crashing outlook, but yeah. Do they know why they're gonna? Oh yeah, they do. It has something to do with the rendering of complex tables. They are gonna fix it. In effect it's gonna be an update to this bug is going to the beta channel version.

Leo Laporte (00:50:29):
It's an interesting bug. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:31):
It'll be out past Tuesday updates,

Leo Laporte (00:50:33):
Fix it fast though, because you know, the first step in an exploit is crashing the system. The next step is yeah. You know, hackers are now trying to make emails who complex

Paul Thurrott (00:50:42):
Tables plus they've just kind of publicized what the problem.

Leo Laporte (00:50:45):
Yeah. They've even announced it. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:47):
So yeah. People can kinda look at that. Yeah. Yeah. I here's an idea. Throw a VBA macro in there. <Laugh> and 

Leo Laporte (00:50:54):
Why not? Why not? What could possibly go wrong by the way? It's fascinating. We were talking again about the VBA macro thing and a company was studying the rise and fall of VBA macro exploits. And the minute Microsoft changed that policy, the exploits fell off the face of the earth. I mean, it really does make a difference what the default policy is on macros mm-hmm <affirmative> so it's a good thing they're gonna make that, you know, off by default because that's right. And, and not put that little easy to click button because people really, you know, take advantage of that. Yeah. I'm so excited that now I can use teams on my apple Silicon Mac.

Paul Thurrott (00:51:33):

 Mary Jo Foley (00:51:35):
Not, not quite yet. Oh, but coming. I know this was a little deceptive today. They announced GA for the next version of teams, client for all Mac users. But then you read the post and it says, yeah, it's gonna roll out in increments over the coming months. So it's not really there yet. You

Leo Laporte (00:51:55):
Know, what's interesting to me, they have a team's app for iPad, which means they

Paul Thurrott (00:52:00):
No, no, sorry. There is a teams app for our Mac. It's just not optimized for M one. Right. But I'm

Leo Laporte (00:52:05):
Saying I'm running an M one iPad and oh, I see. Yes. It's not an Intel version of teams on my M one iPad. That's true. So I'm a little confused. It's not that, in other words, it wouldn't be that hard. In fact, I might even be able to run the iPad version of teams on my Silicon,

Paul Thurrott (00:52:22):
Microsoft support of M one stuff has actually been a little on the slow side. You know, how long did it take them to come up with a native M one client for one drive?

Leo Laporte (00:52:31):
It still works. It's not, it's not a question I'm looking,

Paul Thurrott (00:52:32):
It works in, I mean, in my experience, well,

 Mary Jo Foley (00:52:35):
There was emulation. Like you

Leo Laporte (00:52:37):
Could, it wasn't ideal for a while. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't ideal. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:52:40):
And teams is kind of a P of a program, right? It's yeah, it's a big app. So optimizing it for the native Silicon makes lot

Leo Laporte (00:52:48):
Maybe the version I'm running on the iPad is a stripped down version compared to what it would be on the desktop. Maybe that's it.

Paul Thurrott (00:52:57):
I don't, that's a good question.

 Mary Jo Foley (00:52:59):
So the way, the way they say this is gonna work is they developed a universal binary version of teams. That'll run on all of all max. Yeah. Including the ones with apple Silicon, and then it'll automatically just get delivered to you. If you have teams,

Leo Laporte (00:53:13):
That's something magical. You don't have to do anything. All apps do that. That's called

Paul Thurrott (00:53:17):
That's. But you know, let's be honest here, Microsoft enabled it. Let's give credit where credit is due. Yeah. Microsoft. Yes. Yes. Two years, two years later. They've they?

Leo Laporte (00:53:27):
They did it. Yeah. Wonder why maybe that's well, first of all, apple did a good job of making Rosetta to work well enough that you didn't notice. That's true.

Paul Thurrott (00:53:37):

Leo Laporte (00:53:37):
That's true. So maybe they just wasn't, they didn't feel like there was huge pressure to yeah. Do you think a lot of Mac users use teams <laugh> <laugh> wow. That was that, that silence spoke volumes,

Paul Thurrott (00:53:52):
Your honor. Do I have to answer that question? Oh, do <laugh>

 Mary Jo Foley (00:53:56):
Under duress. Well, I would say under duress they might use teams.

Leo Laporte (00:54:00):
Yeah. Yeah. Not by choice. Yeah. I had to use it. Well, it's funny cuz I made a call to premier networks, which runs the radio show and they they're a very big Microsoft house. I mean, it's all Microsoft and I had to use teams, but it was fine. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I started to put on my Mac and then I remembered this whole thing that it's Intel. So I didn't wanna put it on my nice Mac studio. So I just put it on. I ran. That's how I know it runs very well on the mm-hmm <affirmative> and when I bet, so

Paul Thurrott (00:54:25):
Everything to me has run well on the M one iPad. The, the one exception was that OneDrive client. But I think it's the nature of what it does. It's a different,

Leo Laporte (00:54:34):
Different kind of

Paul Thurrott (00:54:35):
Thing. But that was the only issue I ever had. And you know, as we infamously talk about all the time, if you run parallels and windows 11 or 10 on arm, that runs faster in emulation.

Leo Laporte (00:54:47):
Yeah. Isn't that funny?

Paul Thurrott (00:54:48):
And it does on a real computer, so

Leo Laporte (00:54:50):
Yikes mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. <Laugh> wow. All right. Yeah. I would like to let me just kind of parse out how long the next segment and the Xbox segment will be. I think it'd be a good time to do a commercial break here. Let me just do it here. Okay. I'm just trying to, you know, even it all out. So mm-hmm <affirmative> it all works after

Paul Thurrott (00:55:11):
I can blow through the earnings thing quick if you want. No,

Leo Laporte (00:55:13):
No, no, no. Don't no, no, that's the problem. I, I would have, you would have to do it slowly. <Laugh> okay. Which I don't want you to slowly. I really don't want you to do so now it won.

Paul Thurrott (00:55:24):
Tell do, because someone tell me what Intel does.

Leo Laporte (00:55:27):
What's going on our show today brought to you by I'm very proud to say user way. We use user way on our website. In fact, if you want to even kind of get a little taste of what user way can do, just go to and in the lower right hand corner, you see that you see the little Vitruvian man, the uni, you know, the universal access logo, click that and you'll see all the amazing things. And that was like, we added that with one line in JavaScript, every website. And this is by the way, the law of the land in the us. Anyway, thanks to the Americans with disabilities act of very I think a great law. There's a pizza company <laugh> that had a website and it wasn't accessible. And they were sued over the ADA pizza site.

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It was overwhelming. The idea of making your website accessible, but thank goodness, user way solutions are cost effective. They're easy. They make it very simple to do what you wanna do anyway. Not just, you know, follow the law, but to make your site accessible to the millions of people with disabilities. In fact, if you want to know right now how good your site is, you can use that free scanning tool at the user way site to see if your site is ADA compliant. Just go to user If you have a, if you're a big company, enterprise level, user way offers a managed solution to their team will do the whole thing for you. In fact, that's exactly what Coca-Cola does. Disney eBay, FedEx, over a million websites, trust user ways, AI and machine learning solutions, almost all the big brands. In fact, user ways, the number one accessibility solution in the market, 61% market share.

Leo Laporte (00:58:00):
But, but, but don't get scared off. It's not gonna cost you. The it's not gonna cost you like Disney. You can get started today, $49 a month on user ways, monthly plan, less than we pay for, you know, the web fonts we use in our font. And now we're ADA compliant and we're accessible. Reach more customers build loyally. We're gonna get you 30% off that price. There are a billion people in the world with disabilities, 13% of the population, their potential customers that you will lose if you are not compliant. So you're avoiding, you know, fines, you're avoiding revenue loss and you're, and you're building trust with a really important group of users. It's the leading accessibility solution in the market today on the cutting edge for years, creating innovative accessibility technologies that push the envelope of what's possible. They use AI and machine learning.

Leo Laporte (00:58:50):
I'll tell you why. For instance images on your site, you need alt tags. You can probably know that that's what the computer vision does. It automatically generates image else, which you could then add to. So, you know, you may say, well, that's a picture of the golden gate bridge at sunset. And you could say a BI bicyclist, RI rolling across the golden gate bridge. You can enhance it, but it gets you started, which is nice. It remediates complex nav menus. The bane of not just, not just unsighted users, but of every user that makes sure your popups are accessible. It fixes vague link violations, fixes, broken links, uses accessible colors while remaining true to your brand. And you'll get a detailed report of everything user way is fixed. So you know exactly what it's done works. In fact, they have plugins for WordPress and Shopify and Wix and CCO and SharePoint and more every site. If, if you can add a line of JavaScript to your site, it's what we did for ours user way works, let user way help your business, meet its compliance goals and improve the experience for your users. Just ask the voice of Siri, Susan Bennett, what she thinks of user way.

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Leo Laporte (01:00:13):
It's so easy. I could, I could vouch for that user way. Can make any website fully accessible in ADA compliant so that everyone who, everyone who visits your site can browse seamlessly, customize it to fit their needs. And it's a great way to showcase your site. Your brand's commitment to millions of people with disabilities user We're gonna get you 30% off their already very affordable AI powered accessibility solution book, a short call, find out what user way can do for you. Get their accessibility guide. All it all slash TWiTuser way, making the internet accessible for everyone user And we thank 'em so much for their support of windows weekly. You support us by using that address user All right. Thank you for letting me just interrupt there. Let's talk about earnings. Now. The earnings we talked about last week, mm-hmm <affirmative> is there more to, is there more to say,

Paul Thurrott (01:01:12):
Well, more companies some of which compete with, oh, Microsoft's

Leo Laporte (01:01:16):
You'll tell about Microsoft's earnings S but yeah, yeah, we, this was a crazy week for earnings last week. It's

Paul Thurrott (01:01:21):
Been, so I have to write these things up and it's just miserable. <Laugh> so every bot came out every, yeah, it's it's tough. So apple is a great example, right? Apple made a gazillion dollars. Well, apple made what was the exact figure? 83 billion in revenues 19.4 billion of net income, but only 2% growth year over year. The iPhone and services, both revenue gains year over year, but all their other businesses actually fell.

Leo Laporte (01:01:48):
Lucas. Their CFO had the quote of the analyst call said it was a cocktail of headwinds. What was facing. I think Stephanie needs to come up with a cocktail of headwinds. I

Paul Thurrott (01:02:01):
Love it. I love that's good. That's good. That's a, almost a nautical sounding context.

Leo Laporte (01:02:05):
I know. I love it.

Paul Thurrott (01:02:06):
That's interesting. So I, to me, the, you know, services is the big deal. I mean, iPhone, you know, iPhone obviously, but services is now Apple's second biggest business only grew 11% in the quarter after four straight quarters of growing over 20%. Also, they lost subscribers for the first time ever, at least that I noticed quarter over quarter, not year over year. Which is kind of interesting. So,

Leo Laporte (01:02:28):
And of course all the, all the investors are saying, apple, you gotta break this number down, cuz Apple's does what Microsoft does bundle that

Paul Thurrott (01:02:35):
Services. I'm different businesses. I freaked on that today on Twitter. Yeah. Hey, thanks for waking up rest of the world. Yeah. Everyone needs to do this. Yes. Why? Like this is how can you invest apple?

Leo Laporte (01:02:46):
Think if you don't know what this is, what this product

Paul Thurrott (01:02:48):
Is. I I, that makes me crazy. I, I like I have an idea. Maybe they should break out the, yeah, that's a great idea. We've been talking about this for 10 years. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:02:57):
On this show everybody's

Paul Thurrott (01:02:58):
Public companies should be forced to explain exactly what's going on.

Leo Laporte (01:03:01):
Where's the SCC and all this. They really are used to

Paul Thurrott (01:03:04):
Sleep. It's completely silent. Yep. Yep. Makes me crazy. So there's the E Z Amazon, they made even more money. They actually posted a net loss because of an investment they made in Rivian, which is electric vehicle maker, but revenues of 121.2 billion, holy

Leo Laporte (01:03:21):

Paul Thurrott (01:03:21):
Cow, like an apple and a half <laugh> you know, holy cow. I know it's crazy if it wasn't for a 3.9 billion loss related to that Rian investment, they would've had a profit at

Leo Laporte (01:03:32):
One point, we've always said this, Amazon has the power to determine whether they're profitable or not. They just, there's an, there's a dollar. Yeah. It's said Andy Jazz's desk, when Bezo handed the rains over, don't forget the dial it's in the drawer. You turn the knob, depending on how much you want to make

Paul Thurrott (01:03:48):
Or how little we took one of those red target buttons. And we added a dial that was

Leo Laporte (01:03:51):
Easy. Same thing. Yep. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Paul Thurrott (01:03:53):
So the interesting thing here to me is the AWS number. Right? So AWS and that's

Leo Laporte (01:03:58):
A that's competi for Azure. Of course.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:00):
Yeah. That's right. And, and for the entire Microsoft cloud and you would think I could find it my own article

Leo Laporte (01:04:06):
33% year over year.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:07):
There you go. Up to 19.7, 4 billion. So Mary Jo might remember the figure for the so-called Microsoft cloud. I wanna say was 25,000,000,005. Yep. Well, look at me. Look at me.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:04:19):

Paul Thurrott (01:04:20):
Know 25 pulls out of the air. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:04:22):
Yep. So Microsoft cloud is bigger than Amazon's. No, Amazon's number one.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:27):
You gotta

 Mary Jo Foley (01:04:28):
Remember. It's not just Azure.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:29):
Oh yeah. This is, this is Microsoft's funneling thing again. Yeah. They used to call it commercial cloud. Now it's Microsoft cloud. It doesn't exist. This is let's cherry pick all our best cloud based businesses. Adam together call 'em something and then maybe, and

Leo Laporte (01:04:42):
Then we look better than

Paul Thurrott (01:04:43):
Amazon AWS. That's right. Yeah. Yep.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:04:45):

Paul Thurrott (01:04:46):
Right. That's exactly right.

Leo Laporte (01:04:49):
Amazon is still dominant in this.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:51):
Oh God.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:04:52):
We don't know the real Azure number for the quarter, but we know that the biggest part of Microsoft cloud is Microsoft's 365. It's not Azure, so

Paul Thurrott (01:05:02):
Right. That's right. And, and also we know the business unit that Azure's in and we know what those revenues are and yeah, server's a chunk of that. But I think it's fair to say. I don't know. Two thirds of that probably is probably we don't know. So this is a problem we don't know. We can only guess <laugh> so we could, we could make that kind of comparison, but yes. AWS is much bigger than, than Azure, for sure. Yeah. And then the two that I think are most important to what we're kind of talking about here today. Like every day, which is windows Intel and AMD Intel I don't know if you have like a funeral dirt you can play right now, but they're not doing great. So net loss of 454 million in revenues of 15.3 billion, 22% decline year over year their biggest business of course is what they call the client computing group.

Paul Thurrott (01:05:48):
These, this is the group that makes the microprocessors for PCs. Biggest year over year loss was of 25% to 7.7 billion in revenues. Intel says that they have seen a reduction in PC sales of 10% in the quarter. And that, that with the poor economy, et cetera, et cetera, is causing, you know, the supply chain issues, all that stuff is the problem. But then we have AMD, AMD's kind of interesting. They're the, they're the one non ASTE company in this entire list. They reported a Netcom net income of four 47 million on revenues of 6.6 billion. So what did I say from, so they're about not quite, they're more than half the size, but they're, you know, they're not nearly as big, Astel obviously by revenues, but <laugh> every single one of their business units had double digit growth and I, and I'm talking 20 something percent or more mm-hmm <affirmative> which is incredible.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:44):
Their client segment again, microprocesses for PCs up 25% year over year. In fact, I think that was the slowest growth they experienced in the quarter. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> driven by strong rise and mobile sets. Right. they also have a gaming segment, which I think we could kind of throw into that climate's client segment as well. Right? This is the radiant cards and so forth. Another 1.7 billion of revenues up 32%. <Laugh> right. It's just crazy. A data center segment up 83%, 1.5 billion of revenues. And then they have an embedded segment, which is up someone in Santa because they had an acquisition, but another 1.3 billion of revenues. This was, I think the only earnings report I read where I was like, yeah, this is the way it used to be all the time. <Laugh>, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> and meanwhile, they're talking about we're we're already working on five next generation, five nano product shipments, you know, blah, blah, blah. They're just going gangbusters. So I think the interesting thing, well, the interesting thing about AMD clearly is it's competition with Intel. It's always been a much smaller player. It's starting to close the gap a little bit here now.

Leo Laporte (01:07:45):
I think it's it's, isn't it market cap higher, or at least it was briefly

Paul Thurrott (01:07:49):
It's market cap is higher or was right on the day they announced this that's yes, that's true. And I'm trying to display, so two points by the way, billion in revenues,

Leo Laporte (01:07:56):
Stunning. If you had said 10 years ago, AMD's market capital exceed Intels even for a minute. That's what

Paul Thurrott (01:08:05):
So just, but again, Intel

Leo Laporte (01:08:06):
Has just

Paul Thurrott (01:08:07):
Tanked it just I right. But Intel, their language is like, look, we've hit the bottom. We're making all these investments. We're doing fabs. I, I know I we're bouncing off the bottom. I, I just I'll just leave this one hanging out. There is their client computing group, which arguably is the same as two of AMD's business groups. Right. But 7.7 billion in, in revenue. So that's over three times the size of AMD's client segment. But if you add in the gaming segment, I think those all go together. It gets a lot closer. So it's about four, you know, 4 billion versus 7.7. So AMD's logistically speaking revenue wise is really about 50% the size of it's about half as they used to be like 20%. Right, right. Like they've, they've made significant

Leo Laporte (01:08:54):
Gains. Well, and this is in a quarter where PC sales were horrible. Right. Horrible.

Paul Thurrott (01:08:59):
Yeah. That's right. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> that's right. Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:09:03):
Horrible. So Intel lost half a billion dollars. That's that's a lot of money for this. So for a company like Intel to lose and now they're building $20 billion fabs. So yep. This is a very Rocky yep. Situation.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:17):
Yep. Well, is I, I right. That's right. I, I think that like so many other companies in big tech, they were artificially helped by the pandemic mm-hmm <affirmative> and that this softness would've been seen two years ago.

Leo Laporte (01:09:28):

Paul Thurrott (01:09:28):
Probably. And it, it is maybe necessary or well, necessarily is maybe unavoidable because of this transition they're making you know, I think we talked last week about this media tech partnership they had. And from Intel's perspective, it's like, see, we got, we already have signed up someone from our fabs and then you talk to media tech and they're like, yeah, we're only using it for the old stuff. Cuz they can only manufacture like 11, 10, maybe nanometer isn't that stuff. We need three, two, blah, blah, blah, whatever we we're going to Taiwan for that

Leo Laporte (01:09:55):
Stuff. But that's why there's 52 billion in the chips act for and American.

Paul Thurrott (01:10:02):
And I think by the way, soon to be 288 billion and wow, Intel has themselves I it's gotta be in the 200 billion range between Europe and the United States, the various facilities there they're

Leo Laporte (01:10:13):
Well pouring saw into these things. There's an interesting clause in this money. Yeah. For the federal government, the us government, you may not continue to do stuff in, in Asia. So yes, that's right. It's, it's really in, you know what chip the chip business is in a big turmoil right now. It's very interesting to see what's gonna

Paul Thurrott (01:10:35):
Happen. I wonder how this is gonna impact Frito lay

Leo Laporte (01:10:38):
<Laugh> but then the government throwing in hundreds of billions of dollars into it really muddies the waters. It's like yeah, it does. <Laugh> wow.

Paul Thurrott (01:10:47):
Hey, remember how all those companies in China were colluding with the Chinese government? Yeah. Yeah. We're doing that.

Leo Laporte (01:10:53):
Yeah. Well we should

Paul Thurrott (01:10:54):
Shouldn't we? I mean, you gotta compete on

Leo Laporte (01:10:57):
An plane there's there's no choice. Is there that's a good investment. What are you gonna do? Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. It's really just to, yeah. I'm glad I don't invest in tech stocks. That's all I could say. Cause it's, it's a crazy, it was a crazy, oh, I picked, I picked <laugh> so I'm thinking, I'm looking, I'll tell a story on myself. I'm looking at this, the market. I knew all these results were gonna come in last week. I knew we were gonna GDP numbers last week. Right. And I thought I'm getting outta stocks. Just, you know, sometimes I do this where I just go, I'm gonna sell all my it's all index stocks. It's all index funds. Right. So I'm, you know, it's the market as a whole. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it and put in a stable value fund. And as soon as I do the S and P has the best week it's had all year, <laugh> you, you should watch me. And when I sell my stocks, you should buy, I am such an idiot. You know? So now

Paul Thurrott (01:11:48):
My big, I must have told you my big tech start talks. Yeah. Big tech stock story. I must have told you this why this is 20, this could 20, 25 years ago. My FA yeah, it was right around the time Microsoft was involved with all the antitrust stuff. My father came to me and he is like, yeah. I'm like investing in Intel and Microsoft that drive me crazy. Every time Intel's competitors announced something, stock price goes flying down. Every time Intel announces something, they go flying up and I'm like, yeah, that's normal. And he's like, well, what is this Microsoft thing? Is the government gonna break? 'em Up? What am I gonna do? I'm like, dad, this is a, win-win think about it either. They win this case. In which case they emerge, Victoria, you know, the stock's gonna go through the roof or they get split up and then you're gonna own stock and truth value

Leo Laporte (01:12:29):

Paul Thurrott (01:12:30):
Yeah, yeah. Either you're golden. And then they settled

Leo Laporte (01:12:33):

Paul Thurrott (01:12:34):
And then his stock just boo,

Leo Laporte (01:12:36):
As, as long as he continued

Paul Thurrott (01:12:38):
10 straight years

Leo Laporte (01:12:39):
For another 20.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:40):
Oh yeah. Now he'd be golden. But he, he had a, he had to sit through 10 years of Steve bomber and $30 to share. And you know, like the stock didn't go anywhere for a decade. It's irrational. So don't, that's the problem

Leo Laporte (01:12:52):
Ever market. Yeah. Don't listen to me either. I told my dad to sell his apple stock when Steve jobs died. That was smart. He didn't thank goodness. Yeah. Our parents should not take advice from us. And I promise not to take advice from my son on there you go on, on stock market, but the stock market's irrational, you know? I mean, that's, that's the problem. It doesn't have anything to do with anything what's happening to assume they're gonna see this GDP go down and they're gonna go crazy. No, they went up. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:21):
We have our kid and his friends all invested in Bitcoin, I guess. And we'd only just found this out and I was like, I swear to, I was like, if you telling me now you're gonna retire. I'm gonna come over there and

Leo Laporte (01:13:31):
Kill you. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:13:34):

Leo Laporte (01:13:35):
Well now he's asking, he's got his hand out probably.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, he actually got out of it. So they made some money in their oh

Leo Laporte (01:13:41):
Good. Yeah. What is it with the Youngs? My, both my kids want to do NFTs and crypto and I keep saying no. And they say, well, dad, you're just a boomer. When

Paul Thurrott (01:13:51):
It comes to money, I've always spent the most conservative person on earth and I just don't ever take risks.

Leo Laporte (01:13:56):
Yeah. That's the smart. Yeah. And as one of our advertisers always says says time in the market, beats time in the market and I wish I would listen to that. Yeah. <Laugh> that's true. And just true. Just let it ride. Let the chips ride problem is I'm I'm retirement age. Right? I don't have a lot. You

Paul Thurrott (01:14:14):
Don't wanna, you don't wanna ride anymore. Yeah. You want to start

Leo Laporte (01:14:17):
Cashing? Yeah, basically that was, I was thinking, you know what? I have a pile of money. I just, right. I know what's going away.

Paul Thurrott (01:14:22):
So how, how old, how old are you now?

Leo Laporte (01:14:24):
I'm sorry.

Paul Thurrott (01:14:24):
65 65. Oh geez. So you could,

Leo Laporte (01:14:28):
I could start your oh no, I could start withdrawing. Absolutely.

Paul Thurrott (01:14:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:14:32):
And I have enough to live on for the rest of my life, but my fear was it would be slowly D disappear. Of course, inflate with inflation, having it in a 2% stable value fund. Isn't really good either. You just, I don't know what to do.

Paul Thurrott (01:14:46):
I, but you'll hold off on social security as long as

Leo Laporte (01:14:49):
Oh yeah. Until you're 70 and a half.

Paul Thurrott (01:14:51):
And then that, that's just gonna be like this bonus, you know?

Leo Laporte (01:14:54):
Yeah. It's like 4,000 a month for nothing. That's

Paul Thurrott (01:14:56):
Incredible. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:14:57):
That's incredible. I know all this time earning let's just hope they don't, they don't shut it down.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:15:04):
Exactly. <laugh> yeah. So right behind you. So hopefully they don't. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:15:08):
That's right. My, my advice to kids don't count on social security. Be putting money inside every paycheck guess

Paul Thurrott (01:15:14):
And right. Start, start investing just

Leo Laporte (01:15:16):
One 40,000 more Microsoft can.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:15:20):
Yes they can.

Leo Laporte (01:15:21):
That was

Paul Thurrott (01:15:22):
Yes. Was so this,

 Mary Jo Foley (01:15:23):
This is surprising, right? This,

Paul Thurrott (01:15:25):
This report, you know what though, this, this kind of thing has come out for a lot of big tech companies who have not talked about this to date, but have in recent weeks said, Hey, we're not hiring anymore. And this is not unique to Microsoft.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:15:39):
No, but this is crazy. This is geek wire, Todd Bishop over or friend of geek wire mm-hmm <affirmative>. He does all these calculations based on S E C reports plus earnings to figure out how many people does Microsoft really have. Right. And I always think in my head, when somebody says to me, how many employees do Microsoft, does Microsoft have? I always say 160,000? I don't know why I always say that. But the actual number as of June 30th was 221,000. They added 40,000 jobs last year. The biggest number of jobs they've ever added in a single year. Right. <Laugh> which is just astounding. So some of these happen through acquisitions, right? They bought nuance. So they added 6,500 employees there. They bought Xander the former at and T advertising technology. So they added another 1500 then a month or so ago, they said they were gonna cut 1% of the workforce. So take away two, you know, 1700 to 2000 jobs. But Todd, the most surprising chart in Todd's article is what kind of jobs are they adding? What

Paul Thurrott (01:16:42):
For a long time, where are those people growing exactly.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:16:45):
Long time, this was products and engineering that was growing the fastest of everything, product R and D. Now since 2020, the fastest growing category is operations. So these are the people I believe who run like data center who do, who do consulting, all those kinds of jobs. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> not sales and marketing, but like a whole other set of people who do operations jobs. And that is the fastest growing category category of jobs at Microsoft by far, right. It's

Paul Thurrott (01:17:11):
A different company.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:17:12):
I just found all this interesting. It is such a completely different company than it was even just a couple of years ago. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:17:18):

Paul Thurrott (01:17:18):
Really interesting because of the vast diversity of these data center locations around the world. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, you're also seeing more and more people not working in the Redmond area. Right. Although right. You know, having just been there and I didn't visit Microsoft officially or anything, but Microsoft has facilities all over that area. Now it's not just Redland Bellevue. It's like, they were like everywhere. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> because this, you know, they don't have enough space.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:17:41):

Paul Thurrott (01:17:42):
It's incredible.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:17:44):

Leo Laporte (01:17:48):
It's funny cuz yeah. I mean even meta is saying we're gonna lay people off mm-hmm <affirmative> the fat time.

Paul Thurrott (01:17:56):
Yeah. Yeah. This is very common in, in yeah. In big tech, right? Yeah. Google. It is. We're gonna hyperfocus on things that make the most sense, which frankly would get rid of most of what they offer. <Laugh> if they were serious about it, you know, this is a very common thing in big tech right now. They're kind of circle into wagons there.

Leo Laporte (01:18:12):
Yep. You waited for it. You wanted it. You've asked for it. You begged for it. Paul Thora is here to give you the Xbox news.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:22):
It's kind of Xbox and gaming because honestly, most of these stories aren't Xbox specific, but the two that are excellent. So it's August, obviously <laugh> last week I would've mentioned the games with gold titles that are coming this month. Today we have the first set of Xbox game pass titles that are coming this month. And there's a couple of really good ones in here. I think the big one for me is ghost recon, Wildlands. You know, Tom Clancy's ghost recon Wildlands because as we call it, so

Leo Laporte (01:18:52):
Are those fun games. I see all those Tom Clancy

Paul Thurrott (01:18:54):
Games. Yeah. I haven't played one in a while, but those are games I've finished. And those are also games where my son and I have spent a lot of time playing together. They have a lot of neat little co-op mission things you can do and stuff it's that's cool. Those are always pretty. Those are always pretty great. Turbo golf racing. Am I right? Obviously booking

Leo Laporte (01:19:10):
Simulator racing. There

Paul Thurrott (01:19:12):
You go. Did you see, there was one it's like, I'm gonna get the name wrong, but it's like power washing simulator.

Leo Laporte (01:19:16):
Oh yeah. People love that.

Paul Thurrott (01:19:18):
Yep. Now we have so much fun simulator. So it's all of the excellent stuff about cooking with none of the eating of the food.

Leo Laporte (01:19:23):
None of the food <laugh>,

Paul Thurrott (01:19:25):
Which doesn't seem like it makes a lot of sense. But anyway, these games are all coming up between today and the middle of the month, actually ghost recon recon wild is available now. So that one is available already. The other it's the level of this story. So Microsoft has said publicly that they expect the AC activation blizzard acquisition to conclude within this fiscal year that we're now meaning by next gen June. I, I think a lot of people are kind of hoping and expecting will actually happen this year. But what they're doing of course is interacting with regulatory bodies around the world to make sure there's no hitches. What we, I guess it makes sense. Haven't hasn't been publicized a lot. Competitors are also making rounds that regulators trying to complain to them that this should never happen. And one of those is Sony and Sony has gone to regulators and we know of one instance explicitly the New Zealand commerce commission, which is their antitrust regulatory body that I'm sorry, actually that might be Microsoft does matter. They've gone to at least one regulatory body and said, Hey we

Leo Laporte (01:20:31):
Don't care. There are

Paul Thurrott (01:20:31):
No game. No, there are no game. There are no games as big as call of duty. Like you cannot let this go to Microsoft cuz they, this is oh, interesting causes people to choose consoles. Yeah. It's the reason Sony paid a lot of money to get that call of duty exclusivity several years back, which stunk for me because I'm on Xbox. Right. And then I started getting DLC late and so forth. That's actually kind of reversed in more recent years, but that was a big problem. Mary Jo

Leo Laporte (01:20:55):
And I are very upset that stray is a Sony exclusive.

Paul Thurrott (01:20:58):
Right, right.

Leo Laporte (01:20:59):
<Laugh> do you know that game? Mary Jo, you would love this game.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:21:02):
I do. We talked about it. Yeah we did. We, yeah. Everybody seems to love it. Yeah. Including cats, cats love it

Paul Thurrott (01:21:08):
As well. So the, the, the greatest line I heard about that was someone said people are discovering that stray is an awesome game because cats are dicks.

Leo Laporte (01:21:17):
<Laugh>, it's kinda like the goat, the goat simulator. You get to be a, you gotta be

Paul Thurrott (01:21:24):
A cat cat have pretty good line.

Leo Laporte (01:21:26):
Yeah. Not bad. Not bad. That's hysterical.

Paul Thurrott (01:21:30):
Sorry. But yes, I actually, it's funny, you mentioned, I meant to mention this game to Mary Jo. So I'm glad you talked about that. But Microsoft has gone to regulatory bodies and said they don't make anything that important. Who cares. There are no must have games from the studio that brought you Overwatch

Leo Laporte (01:21:47):
Lizard. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:21:48):
Right. All of duty. That's why we're

Leo Laporte (01:21:50):
Spending billions to buy it. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing good. Exactly.

Paul Thurrott (01:21:54):
Just to, but it, I mean, helping matters may in a weird way activation, Blizzard's not doing great. So they had an net income of 280 million on revenues of 1.6, 4 billion for the same quarter we've been talking about those are significant declines over what they had a year ago. So basically they've, haled their revenues. It's it's well, not quite half, but it's, it's going downhill fast. They're like, they're losing col like tens of millions of college duty users. Because that last game wasn't that great. So interestingly for them going forward, there's gonna be a big game this year, Monte warfare too. But then next year there's not gonna be a new game. And that's the first time that's happened since I don't know, 2003 or something a long time ago and 2004 maybe, but they're gonna fill it in with, you know, as you would think premium paid content. So in other words, they're gonna keep adding content to whatever's out in the world. So we'll see what that looks like next year. But this year's a big deal for division blizzard. Not just because of Microsoft, but because if this game tanks, I don't know where they go next. I mean, I don't know, this is they're gonna emerge as a much smaller company either way. Huh. So we'll see. We'll see. So the rest of this is more industry news. You know, stadia for example, this is the, the Google,

Leo Laporte (01:23:06):
I didn't even service. I didn't even cover this rumor cuz it just wasn't credible to me.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:11):
Yeah, same, same. I, so basically someone came up, well, it was on Twitter through some Facebook group, supposedly someone who, a friend of a friend claiming, you know, it's gonna end by the end of the summer.

Leo Laporte (01:23:24):
I BS rumor.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:26):
So did you see the initial Google response? They basically copied the post in a tweet, but they changed it to be about something else. So it's like just a heads up an old coworker. Mine is now one of the social managers for Google. They had a pretty big meeting in California and they're like, and now you can get this new game, but no initial cost on stadia. Wow.

Leo Laporte (01:23:44):
That's hysterical. That's a great way to rebut

Paul Thurrott (01:23:47):
It. Yeah. Yeah. But they're like, yeah, we're not shutting down.

Leo Laporte (01:23:49):
No friend of a friend told me they're shutting down.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:52):
Come on. So stadia is still alive. Amazon Luna, this is Amazon's cloud streaming service for games is now available on the 2022 Samsung smart TV, like Amazon cloud sorry, Microsoft cloud gaming. So that, that was announced. I don't know probably late June or something. Invidia GForce now is on there. Stadia is on there. So now Amazon Luna. So this Samsung gaming initiative is actually working up pretty well. So there's a Samsung gaming hub app. You can now access all of these cloud gaming cloud streaming services from one place. That's pretty

Leo Laporte (01:24:29):
Cool. Well, that's really neat. That's a smart way to sell TVs.

Paul Thurrott (01:24:32):
Yep. That's a good I'm actually I need to, I need, do need an

Leo Laporte (01:24:35):
TV. Yeah, there you go.

Paul Thurrott (01:24:38):
And the earnings will not end because actually the earnings will not end. We have two more earning stories. So Sony announced their earnings. They sold 2.4 million PlayStation five video consoles. That's actually a little bit up from the same quarter a year earlier, but remember they had all, all those problems a year ago. Revenues declined from PlayStation declined 2% software sales declined by 26%. Not a lot of good news there, but same, you know, same issues as the rest of the industry.

Leo Laporte (01:25:04):
That's a, my tie of headwinds right there.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:07):
That's right.

Leo Laporte (01:25:08):
That's right. 

Paul Thurrott (01:25:10):
They do have 47.3 million PlayStation plus subscribers. That's up 2%, but monthly active users were actually down 3% to 102 million.

Leo Laporte (01:25:20):
Yeah. I've seen a lot of places saying that the recession has hit gaming and I don't, I don't really that,

Paul Thurrott (01:25:27):
First of all, understand it. If the story, everybody

Leo Laporte (01:25:28):
Quit their jobs.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:29):
Right. Right. Exactly. What

Leo Laporte (01:25:31):
Do you, you go home. You're gonna play games, right.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:34):
Well, right. So the active user is tough because you would think, well, people are home doing nothing. They'll play games, they'll play the games. They already own unit sales. They'll buy new ones. Revenue is going down. Like, yeah, I get that. But yeah, I don't, yeah, I can't explain it, but they're not the, the only company that said this NPD came up with thing for the United States, the games spend and game time spent gaming is down double figures in both cases. Isn't that weird year over year. Yep. And just a small note too. I just wanna say about Sony. They closed their 3.6 billion acquisition of Bunge. This is the studio that originally created halo and destiny

Leo Laporte (01:26:08):
Love bungee love them and marathon before halo.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:13):
That's that's right. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:26:14):
That's right. But they, they sold halo to Microsoft has the halo mm-hmm <affirmative> properties. Not when they bought

Paul Thurrott (01:26:20):
Yeah. I think destiny is still owned by bungee, I believe. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:26:23):
Oh, interesting. Oh, okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:25):
I think so. I could be wrong, but I think they do,

Leo Laporte (01:26:26):
People are kind of mad at them for destiny, I think

Paul Thurrott (01:26:30):
For, yeah, sure. As someone, as one review pointed out destiny two solves all of the problems in the original game and I'm like, that's great. So do, if I bought the original game, do I get those for free or do what

Leo Laporte (01:26:40):

Paul Thurrott (01:26:41):
How does it solve the problems? I have to

Leo Laporte (01:26:43):
Buy a new guy.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:45):

Leo Laporte (01:26:46):
Did they buy didn't Microsoft buy bungee and then so they sold it to a Sony is that

Paul Thurrott (01:26:50):
They did. And then MI they asked to be spun off and they, oh,

Leo Laporte (01:26:52):
That's right.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:53):
They were spun off. First said you, yeah, you have to leave halo here. Halo. And they said fine. Yep. And then they made destiny after they left.

Leo Laporte (01:27:00):
Microsoft. Didn't want that anyway.

Paul Thurrott (01:27:03):
Well, I mean, look, even if you love destiny, you have to admit it's very close to it's very similar, right? Yeah. It's like graphically and the whole presentation's very similar to hill. Good games. It's fine. And then finally Nintendo also reported down everything. So net income of 894 million on revenues of 2.3, 4.7 decline a year over year switch sales down 23% to 3.4, 3 million units supply and production issues. Yada yada, yada. They've got some big software sales though. They've got, I, I don't follow the, I read the titles of Nintendo games and I feel like the oldest person on earth, I have no idea what they're

Leo Laporte (01:27:43):
Talking. I love my switch. I'm playing halo. It's

Paul Thurrott (01:27:46):
Mario striker is battling.

Leo Laporte (01:27:48):
Nope, but I'm playing halo not halo portal on it. And I love it. It's you know, I got, did

Paul Thurrott (01:27:55):
You see the guy on the cruise who had the

Leo Laporte (01:27:57):
He had the steam deck at first. I thought I was an Nintendo, but then I looked closely and it was really big. And I thought, oh, I think

Paul Thurrott (01:28:04):
About this. I think about that a lot. Either steam deck or a switch,

Leo Laporte (01:28:08):
But I would get a switch. I, I think the steam deck is yeah, it's hard to put a PC in a form factor that size. It's funny when we were on the cruise. So I missed it because as you know, the internet on the cruise, wasn't great. Was it Paul? 

Paul Thurrott (01:28:22):
I didn't notice that

Leo Laporte (01:28:23):
I got an email from steam saying, okay, you can buy your steam deck now. Oh, no way.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:27):

Leo Laporte (01:28:28):
But it's only good for 24 hours. So by the time I got that email, it

Paul Thurrott (01:28:33):
Had flown. How much do they, how much are they going for now? What's the

Leo Laporte (01:28:36):
Price? Well, I had reserved. So you reserve the model you want I'd reserve the top of the line. Five, 12 gig model. I think that was 6, 6 50, something like that. But you, they go as low as 500, I think.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:47):

Leo Laporte (01:28:47):
Gotcha. But it's a PC and and it's kind of not, I mean, it's not battery, life's not great. And

Paul Thurrott (01:28:54):
Yeah. Can you dock it and play on a big screen? I

Leo Laporte (01:28:56):
Think so Micah has one. He lent it to me, you know, he got it for review. He did his review on it on our tech break. And then he led it to me for about, and I had it for about five minutes and I said, I'm going back to the switch, especially the O led the newer switch.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:11):
Well, because obviously with a switch game, as you're playing it with whatever controllers you play it with. Yeah. That's

Leo Laporte (01:29:16):
What it's made for the, it's not a

Paul Thurrott (01:29:17):
PC game, but when you play a PC game yeah. You know, there's some lost in translation to that. And plus it's, you know, those games were all designed to be on much higher red screens.

Leo Laporte (01:29:26):
Exactly. That's that was my problem. I tried to play Val Heim on it and it was seven

Paul Thurrott (01:29:31):
20 P something

Leo Laporte (01:29:32):
Like that, you know? And, but I'm a little spoiled. I'm playing it on a 55 inch show led monitor. I mean, it's giant. So <laugh>,

Paul Thurrott (01:29:40):
But that's you get off your chariot and join us here in the presence. It must be a, I wanna,

Leo Laporte (01:29:44):
I, I, I'm gonna, I took windows off of that gaming room <laugh> and I even have to put it back so I can play stray. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:51):
I was gonna say, what do you, what do you, what do you Lenux and steam on it?

Leo Laporte (01:29:54):
Is that what you, yeah. Linux and steam is great and boim was written in Lenox supports windows, of course, but, but, but works great in Lenox. So, but yeah, not many the steam, the only really advantage of the steam deck is it has encouraged a lot of developers to port their game to Lenux because it is Lenox. Right? So that is a good thing. So there are a lot more games now available for Lennox than there used to be. And there's, you know, emulation layers like proton and stuff. But I, I think I need to put windows back on that machine. I'm sad to say, sigh, <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:30:30):
Like a Charlie brown sigh,

Leo Laporte (01:30:32):
Sigh, I know

Paul Thurrott (01:30:33):
This like cloud above it.

Leo Laporte (01:30:35):
Somebody said, we, you shouldn't call us dozers. You should call us winners. So I think this is a show for winners and dozers and that you, you, you pick which one you want.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:47):
<Laugh> never the Twain shall

Leo Laporte (01:30:48):
Me never the Twain shall me. We're gonna take a little break when we come back. It's back of the book time with Paul Thra and Mary Jo Foley tip of the week picks of the week, maybe even some beer or a my tie of headwinds. I don't know. It depends if Stephanie, how quickly Stephanie can whip one up. <Laugh> our show today brought to you by Lenovo orchestrated by the experts at C D w the helpful people at CDW understand that as the world changes, your organization needs to adapt quickly to be successful. So how can CDW keep your business ahead of the curve? Well, with Lenovo, think pads love those think pads, these powerful devices deliver the business class performance. You're looking for thanks to windows 10 and the Intel Evo platform with your remote teams, working across the country around the world. Collaboration's never a problem because Lenovo think pads keep your organization productive and connected from anywhere.

Leo Laporte (01:31:46):
Plus CDW knows your workforce has different work styles and needs flexibility, which is why Lenovo think pads are equipped with responsive tools and built in features that let your team work seamlessly across their favorite tools. Now think about that for a second. Well, and let's not forget security. These high performing machines protect at the highest level with built in hardware to guard against modern threats without slowing your team down. When you need to get more out of your technology, Lenovo makes seamless productivity possible, and CDW makes it powerful. Learn more at client that's client. Thanks CDW so much for making windows weekly, a reality, okay. For the winners and the dozers, it's time for a tip of the week, Mr. Paul thre.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:44):
So roughly 10 years ago, I wrote an editorial that I think was called the right tool for the job. And it was kind of a response to the, the stuff that is now very commonplace in the PC industry, where we had these like, kind of transforming PCs. Like you could clip a keyboard under a tablet, or he could have like a, like a mini tablet with a tiny screen on it and maybe docked it in some cases or those tablets, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. So this is, this has never stopped. Like now we have folding phones and we all this, you know, this notion that like one device can do everything and it's always been the compromise. Right. So maybe you have like Samsung decks, you know, you have your phone doc or the screen a keyboard. It's like, yeah, it works. But, you know, I don't think for most people that this could replace a like an actual computer, right?

Paul Thurrott (01:33:32):
It's like, it's a good idea. Like it's in theory, it's a good idea, but it's never really panned out. You know? And I, I was thinking about this this past week, because I now have almost a dozen computers in for review. Like I've gone from not having anything to write about to having too much. It's kind of overwhelming. And I was struck by the fact that most of these things are what I would call a transforming PC. In other words, a, a two in one or a convertible PC, the type of thing, you can fold it around like a yoga, and it can be like a large heavy tablet with like some stupid little stylists on it. And you know, maybe plugs in and you don't lose it, cuz there's a garage for it. But like who, who actually uses these things? You know, this is kind of an extension of the conversation we had sometime in the past month where I ki admitted that Mary Jo was kind of was right about this notion of multitouch on laptop screens

Leo Laporte (01:34:19):
That, you

Paul Thurrott (01:34:20):
Know, for most people, this is unnecessary, right. It's the same sort of thing. Right? Like in other words, I could sort of say, in theory, the addition of multitouch doesn't hurt anybody. And you may find over time that as you use, you might start touching the screen, you know? Yeah. and I say that again, this is sort of a theory. It's like

Leo Laporte (01:34:39):
There's no touch on this Dell. XBS 15. Nope.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:41):
I don't, I don't like touch. I don't like touch Uhuh. I don't like touch and I, I gotta tell you the reason I don't like it is because, well, Mary Jo, same thing, I have cats. So I'll be like, I'm looking at my screen. I'm like trying to get the hair off. And then I flick it and I cause something to happen on the no

Leo Laporte (01:34:58):
It's accident. Right?

Paul Thurrott (01:34:59):
Yeah. Like this is actually a problem. Yeah. And and so I, I wondered to myself, like, why, why is it like, why I, I understand why Microsoft might wanna try to do this to windows, make it work on this kind of transforming computer. Cuz they're trying to differentiate both with the Mac and with lower end, you know, just tablets like the iPad. But like why has the PC industry embraced this? Like these things can't possibly make sense for most customers. They can't. Right. I think most people who buy like a, like an X, one yoga or a, a specter X 360, which by the way, two of my favorite computers of all time, I use them as laptops.

Leo Laporte (01:35:38):
Yeah. You had a yoga on the cruise and I played with it and I pointed out I had a yoga for years. Never once flipped it around to use it as a tablet, never once,

Paul Thurrott (01:35:47):
Because I think people buy them and think, you know, maybe, you know, you never know it's, it's additional functionality. I want to get the good thing. Yeah. You know, maybe this thing kind of pans out. And I think they pulled a stylist out once. They're like, I, I, what is this thing? I I'm, I'm writing with a toothpick. <Laugh> like one, you know, it doesn't make a,

Leo Laporte (01:36:05):
I mean, I love those yogas. And I guess it's kind of a nice idea to have a stylist. Although you show me the stylist and it was, it's like same sizes in the Samsung galaxy form.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:16):
I can't hold it on in my hand comfortably. It's too small. Yeah. So I, you know, look, I'm not gonna ding any of these computers cuz they transform blah, blah, blah, whatever. But my look when you're buying a computer for yourself and you're gonna spend a thousand bucks possibly more to get a good comp, a good windows PC, for sure. You think about this stuff because you could probably save money by not going with us transforming computers. They don't get an X, one carbon instead of an X, one yoga, for example. I wish that maybe they do and I'm missing something. But you know, like I said, the specter X 360 on the business end, they have something called an elite book, X 360, some of my favorite computers that I've ever used. But really what I want is a version like that, that doesn't flip around and do gymnastics and doesn't have a pen cuz I don't need that. That's just something I'm gonna never use. And I'm gonna lose.

Leo Laporte (01:37:02):
I'm kind of with you on this. I understand why people go, oh, but I might someday wanna be able to do that. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> but if you're not gonna

Paul Thurrott (01:37:09):
Do it, if it's

Leo Laporte (01:37:10):
The first computer you ever bought maybe, but you know what you want now? No,

Paul Thurrott (01:37:15):
Even, but I, you can already sense like how people are gonna kind of push back. For example, one of the like, look, there are artists. Okay, fine. There are probably seven to 18 artists in the world who need this thing for sure. But if you're gonna tell me that a student needs this kind of thing. Absolutely not because here's one thing I know about putting my kids through school. They didn't learn how handwriting, they don't learn how to write that's right in script mm-hmm <affirmative> they write block letters like caveman and that kind of writing is not,

Leo Laporte (01:37:44):
I got that remarkable tablet, you know that you it's the EIN thing. Cuz I thought, well I could take handwritten notes, but I had forgotten that my handwriting is illegible. So it used, it's the only thing I used it first

Paul Thurrott (01:37:55):
I used to have

Leo Laporte (01:37:56):
Is like drawing diagrams, you know? Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:37:58):
That's it. Now we draw like stick figures, stick figures. And I, I can't my, my hand strength I can type faster than anybody. Yeah. But when I try to write, I can't even get through a check.

Leo Laporte (01:38:08):
I be mini

Paul Thurrott (01:38:09):
Without my hand. Your

Leo Laporte (01:38:10):
Hand is so limp. I just meant to, I meant to mention

Paul Thurrott (01:38:14):
And also, yeah, and also the oddly wet,

Leo Laporte (01:38:18):
But on the bright side, very soft. So I that's right.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:22):
I like that. Like a, yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:38:23):
I'm just teasing you. I don't even remember your handshake. <Laugh> I do remember though, many years ago, shaking Mel Torme hand. Oh. And it was like a pillow. It was like a cloud. Wow. And I thought this man has never done an honest day work in.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:36):
I have. 

Leo Laporte (01:38:37):
And it's true. He's melt. Torme. Didn't

Paul Thurrott (01:38:39):
Need to, I, the, the tips of my pointer fingers are worn off from the F and the JK keys on the keyword. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:38:46):
At least you don't have EAX pinky now there.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:49):
Right? Right,

Leo Laporte (01:38:50):
Right. That's a real disability. I am agreeing with you. I bought, when I bought this X PS,

Paul Thurrott (01:38:55):
15 computer, you need not the,

Leo Laporte (01:38:57):
I got, and you recommended and you were right. I got the I five 12th generation instead of the I seven fine. I didn't get a touch screen. Fine. this is a lovely computer without all the bells and whistles.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:11):
I don't, I don't want anyone to point this out, but I believe I'm positive. You could go into device manager and turn off multitouch capabilities on a screen. Bet you

Leo Laporte (01:39:20):
I'm sure you can.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:21):
Yeah. I'm not gonna do that,

Leo Laporte (01:39:22):
But you don't tell me how spent the money on it though. Right? You bought it. That's the point is don't buy it. If you ain't gonna use it,

Paul Thurrott (01:39:29):
I will not. Well, see, this is the problem. So for example, like one computer, I really like is like surface laptop. So Microsoft comes out with a surface laptop five sometime in the next year. There's no way to get that computer without multitouch right. This is not an option. Right. other computers, it depends on the, you know, bigger PC makers offer that option. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> on some models. Right? I know the think pad X, one carbon. I think I mentioned that already. Multitouch on non multitouch your choice. So I don't know. I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to seek out non-touch in the future for myself.

Leo Laporte (01:40:03):
Interesting. Wow. No kidding.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:40:06):
Do you guys remember when I said this and everybody was appalled?

Paul Thurrott (01:40:11):
No, I don't

Leo Laporte (01:40:12):
Remember moving on the next, when did that happen?

Paul Thurrott (01:40:14):

 Mary Jo Foley (01:40:15):
When, when all these touch screens started coming out and everything was built in windows, hello? I'm like, you know what? I just want a computer that doesn't have these things. <Laugh> so I, and everybody's like, oh, you ludite, you ludite,

Paul Thurrott (01:40:27):
Since, since you mentioned this, I, I, I have a memory that I I'm not positive is accurate, but we went to the Netherlands to Harlem for something, for some work event. Yep. And you brought the surface laptop to

 Mary Jo Foley (01:40:39):
The first one? The first one, I think.

Paul Thurrott (01:40:41):
Oh, this was the first one. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. And you let me take it yep. To review it or whatever. And I, I re for some reason in my head that that was the conversation and maybe it was because it was a laptop and you were like, I don't understand why they would put this on the laptop. And I was like, oh, you know, that's, that's how I remember that conversation. Like

 Mary Jo Foley (01:41:00):
You're right. That's

Paul Thurrott (01:41:01):
What happened around that trip. I think so.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:41:03):
No, cuz you, I said to you, I like this laptop, except I wish it didn't have touch. And you're like, oh, come on. Like what? And I'm like, I don't need touch on the laptop. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:41:13):
Listen. It takes, it takes a big man to admit when he is run. And I am not a big man <laugh> but I was wrong.

Leo Laporte (01:41:21):
I was wrong. So

Paul Thurrott (01:41:24):
Anyway, there you go. The

Leo Laporte (01:41:25):
Point is laptop. You know what you need and get that and that'll

 Mary Jo Foley (01:41:28):
Lie. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. Don't let people, don't let people bully you and say, yeah, you know, oh, oh, that's just cause you're a loving do this.

Paul Thurrott (01:41:36):
That don't get sucked into the PC maker thing. Cuz I think PC. Oh, so I actually, I asked this question semi rhetorical rhetorically. Why would PC makers kind of follow along with Microsoft and go down this path when very clearly these computers are not desirable for most people. The reason is simple. They're upsells, right? Yeah. They're more expensive. They

 Mary Jo Foley (01:41:54):
More expensive premium

Paul Thurrott (01:41:55):
Products, right? Yep. Yeah. That's right. Totally. PC makers make money from premium PCs. They don't make money from the low end things. So you know, if you buy a $700 pavilion that will perfectly meet your needs HP is either gonna make no money or very little money. But if you buy an extra, you know, a spectra X 360, yeah. For 1499, HP's gonna make a lot of money. It's a higher end product too. I mean, this that's part of it, but you don't need to spend that much money and you don't need to buy stuff that you

Leo Laporte (01:42:22):
Don't. I do know that I do need a leather laptop though. I do know that <laugh>

 Mary Jo Foley (01:42:27):
You must have it.

Leo Laporte (01:42:28):
Well, I must

Paul Thurrott (01:42:29):
Have. How do you feel all, but how do you feel about faux leather? You okay with that?

Leo Laporte (01:42:32):
No, no plea has vegan leather. I want H leather on my laptop. H leather Uhhuh. No it doesn't. Does, does HP still make that leather laptop?

Paul Thurrott (01:42:44):
No. Now it's fake leather cuz you know it's fake.

Leo Laporte (01:42:47):
It's vegan real.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:42:48):
Leather's too heavy, right? It is real. Leather's too heavy.

Leo Laporte (01:42:52):
It used to be like the same leather that they made footballs out of or something. Right. It was like,

Paul Thurrott (01:42:56):
It looked like a basketball to me. The, the texture of it. Yeah. You know it dimpled. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:43:01):
Dimpled. alright dimple. No, I'm I, you know, it's funny because apple and by the way, apple fans have kind of not been happy. Apple refuses to make a touch screen laptop or a touchscreen desktop.

Paul Thurrott (01:43:14):
Right. And I've actually, that's a good point. I've railed against them for that too. Yeah. And I will, I will say this. So, so in Apple's case, there's a reason to complain because they make the most popular touch devices in the world and developers have to use max to develop those apps. If they had touchscreens, you could interact with the app the way you would, you know, normally on the screen in an ator. Now granted you can just plug it in a device. But I think that's the one case where you could say like, well, okay, this is for a developer making touch apps for a mobile device. Okay. A touch screen could make some sense. That's about it. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, listen, I know I'm gonna hear from the people who I, I like to sit on the couch and flip the screen back and scroll through the thing with my finger while I'm watching TV. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, there are always exceptions. I mean, there are always people and that's fine if you know that and that's you,

Leo Laporte (01:44:05):
We're not saying don't buy these. We're just saying yeah, buy what you need and no more. That's all right.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:10):
That's exactly

Leo Laporte (01:44:10):
Right. And you know what you need.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:12):
Yep. And, and just really think about it. Like what, you know, Mary Jo probably said, well, I don't know what Mary Jo travels with, but I know she brings a phone. She might bring a Kindle. I know if she doesn't have an iPad or whatever do, but yeah, there you go. So, but there you go, three devices, each of which. Yeah. But each of which does a specific thing. Well, yeah, I travel with a phone and an iPad and a laptop, whatever laptops for work iPads for entertainment, reading, fine. Those things are good for those jobs. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> the, the PC is okay for reading and entertainment. I don't really like to suck battery life watching a movie when I want to use that for work. <Laugh> you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> I like the separation. I actually think it makes sense. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so anyway, that's I kind of beat this one to death, but you know, by the thing that makes sense.

Leo Laporte (01:44:55):
No, I think, you know, this is the kind of thing I'm, you know, I might do a monologue on the radio show on, because I think mm-hmm, <affirmative> people, normal consumers who, you know, I'm you and I and every, and Mary Jo and everybody who's probably listening to the show gets asked all the time, what laptops should I get? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> right. Yeah. And I think that that's really good advice, which is don't be tempted by, you know, the fins you know, and the suicide doors, you know, and the luggage rack and the toe tow hitch, get

Paul Thurrott (01:45:23):
What you need the in dash record player.

Leo Laporte (01:45:25):
Yeah. Get, get what, get what you, you, if you didn't know, I guess it would be reasonable to say, well, I wanna take, you know, but for instance, I don't, I don't like the surface cuz I don't want a detachable keyboard. I want a nice, solid keyboard to type on mm-hmm <affirmative> even. And, but I, that, that's what I, I know what I want. So it's not. Yep. So I'm not tempted by the others, you know?

Paul Thurrott (01:45:46):
So I haven't written this review yet, but I will soon, but one of the devices I have in for review right now is a, an $850 HP pavilion plus 14 inch display. It's not touch beautiful keyboard, perfect keyboard. It's $850. Wow. It is an O led screen. Wow. It's a 16 gig. An I seven processor. Yeah. No, this is it's nice series processor. It's beautiful. This for me is per like perfect this a strong word, but it's, it's what it is, what I need for, for me, for my use case, which is I'm typing mostly,

Leo Laporte (01:46:25):
Which HP is this, I wanna write this

Paul Thurrott (01:46:26):
Down. It's called it's brand new. So it's called a pavilion plus 14. That's

Leo Laporte (01:46:30):
Their consumer brand. The pavilion. I get that.

Paul Thurrott (01:46:32):
So pavilion is yeah. So HP has an entry level brand called HP. Pavilion's the next step up? It's the mainstream brand for consumers last year they came out was they, they have pavilions of different sizes, but last year they came out with something I think was called the pavilion arrow, which was nearly perfect. That was a 13 inch screen back. Lit keys were an option just like seriously guys, but still well under a thousand dollars. Great little computer. This one, I think they found the winning formula. This is an incredible combination of high end parts, including the display perfect keyboard, right? Display side size. Sorry. Perfect form factor. You know, write weight and size and thickness, write ports, you know, it's, it's a beautiful machine. It's beautiful. And it's a pavilion, right? Isn't

Leo Laporte (01:47:15):
That interesting? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah, but most of the people who listen to this show would not buy a pavilion. I know I

Paul Thurrott (01:47:20):
Wouldn't. No, they would immediately zone out. As soon as I said the one

Leo Laporte (01:47:22):
I need the E elite of the spectrum. I'm sorry. I gotta have

Paul Thurrott (01:47:25):
No, this is, this is it. This is the one I would

Leo Laporte (01:47:27):
Buy. Isn't that funny?

Paul Thurrott (01:47:29):
Oh, good. I'm with my own money. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. It's

Leo Laporte (01:47:30):
Beautiful. Can I play Dray on it? That's the real question.

Paul Thurrott (01:47:33):
<Laugh> it's interesting. So it's not a gaming laptop. Yeah. But it does have the Oman performance app on it. Oh nice. This is kind of interesting. Yeah. And it's but it's what do you call it? Integrated graphics, but 12th gen H series. I mean yeah. You know. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:47:50):
All right. App pick. We, we spend enough time on your tip. Let's do your app pick

Paul Thurrott (01:47:54):
Of the week. This will be quicker. So my app pick is on the Mac. We know that parallel's desktop does an incredible job of virtualizing windows on arm, on M one or whatever. M two based max. Vmware is come up with a preview of its next version of fusion, which is their version of this software. And this will support windows 11 on both windows. Sorry on both Intel and apple, Silicon map, max, something parallels did last year. So it's something anyone could try right now. And you can kind of compare it to parallels desktop. I will just remind people it's August. And that means that parallels is about to any day now announce a new version of parallels, desktop, probably whatever the next version number is 18, I think. So you might wanna compare the two together, but I don't know. I'm more familiar with parallels desktop, but I don't remember if they supported windows on arm, on Matt, you know, M mark, apple, Silicon. Yeah, they did. Okay. All right. So now they support windows a lot. So,

Leo Laporte (01:48:52):
You know, the big change to me, it's always been 6 0 1, half a dozen, the other, there I go back and forth. There are people who have strong preferences as one of our,

Paul Thurrott (01:49:00):
Yeah, there really are. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I don't want to be, I, I just have more experience with parallels, but like I said, sometime this month they will announce a new version. So if you're thinking about buying one of these things, I would just wait until you see what, what parallels

Leo Laporte (01:49:12):
Is a guy in chat just the other day said, oh, parallels is so much better than VMware. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, you know, I don't, I don't, you know, they seem very, very similar and they what's interesting is they, they always go for feature parody. So because parallels added Silicon and windows on arm. So VMware does. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:49:30):
So I don't know, again, I'm not as familiar with VMware. I know that parallels does a great job. So if you want Linux, for example, they op they support several Linux distributions. The thing I really, if I, I'm not a Mac use, right? Obviously <laugh> so the host of windows weekly, the coast of windows weekly does not use. But if I did use a Mac and had to run windows apps, which is the point of this software, I would use it in coherence mode. Right. And the point of that is you're running Mac apps or you have websites, whatever it is. And you run an app, it's just an app notepad for windows or whatever. It comes up, just the windows. It's, it's not in a, like a desktop window that has the whole windows environment. It's just another app.

Leo Laporte (01:50:09):
Yeah. They call it coherence, I think.

Paul Thurrott (01:50:10):
Yeah. Love that's. I just, I think

Leo Laporte (01:50:13):
Both of them do that. That is really, really what most people want. Right. You don't wanna yep. You know, you're running windows, but you don't really wanna see windows. You just wanna run that app.

Paul Thurrott (01:50:23):
That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why it's there. That's why the software exists, right? Yeah. Because you maybe work for a company that has one windows app, you can't get on the Mac or anywhere else, you have to do it somehow. This is one of the better ways to do it. Especially if you have an apple Silicon base Mac. So just something to look into. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:40):
What is, can you, can you run Intel windows on these things? No,

Paul Thurrott (01:50:47):
No, no. You have to run the, yeah, no, they don't translate. I everyone's kind of waiting

Leo Laporte (01:50:53):
For that. So that's problematic. Right? I mean, cause a lot of windows apps do not run on windows on arm.

Paul Thurrott (01:50:58):
Well, no, actually it's not that many anymore. So all right. Yeah. They both, well, I would imagine, I know parallel support X 86 and the X 64 ululation cuz that's supported in the platform. So I'm sure there are examples of apps that maybe are problematic, but 

Leo Laporte (01:51:12):
Alright. I'm trying to

Paul Thurrott (01:51:12):
Think. That's good. I don't know. I, I don't know of any of the top of my head the issue there is support, right? So Microsoft doesn't officially support windows 10 or 11 on M one.

Leo Laporte (01:51:25):
<Laugh> what was that? <Laugh>

 Mary Jo Foley (01:51:31):
And a glass of water. Of course, Lord, over your computer jumped up and like, I was like, no <laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:51:38):
You caught it. Right?

 Mary Jo Foley (01:51:39):
I did. I caught it in my hand.

Leo Laporte (01:51:41):
Wow, impressive.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:51:42):
Sorry guys. Whole

Leo Laporte (01:51:43):
Show could have got up in flames.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:51:45):
It could have,

Paul Thurrott (01:51:46):
I I realized I've been talking too long. That's a weird way to do it, but that's fine. That's fine.

Leo Laporte (01:51:50):
<Laugh> Mary Jo Foley is here with her enterprise pick of the week.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:51:57):
We joke a lot on this show about how Microsoft has renamed everything, but the kitchen sink as defender <laugh>, but you thought there, that was the end of it. There are more, two more new defender products were announced this week. Oh man. I'm like, oh man, really? This is so confusing already. One is called defender threat intelligence, which I thought they already had as a product name, but I guess not, or maybe this is an addition to it. And then there is defender external attack, surface management, or as friends call it E a S M these products are different from the other things in the defender portfolio for a couple reasons. One is they're based on technology. Microsoft bought when they bought risk IQ, which was a threat intelligence service. Microsoft says that a lot of their other defender products, maybe all of them are about endpoint defense.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:52:53):
So actually defending your devices. This is more about bringing intelligence to your organization's security operations center or S O C. There's not, there's no shortage of acronyms in the defense space here. So defender threat intelligence gives customers access to real time data from Microsoft security signals. The other, the defender external attack surface management is supposed to give defenders. So you as a customer, the same view an attacker has when they select a target. So it lets you think and look at something as if you are the hacker, which is kind of interesting. Both of these are standalone services that can be added to an E five subscription, I believe. But yeah, if you, if you thought there were a lot of defender products, you just got two more. That's my enterprise pick,

Leo Laporte (01:53:51):
Which leaves us, I think the code name pick.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:53:54):
Yes. So this just happened right before the show started. This shows you how this is a little insight into how code name, Watchers work. So the walk in cat, our friend on Twitter posted a thing and he said, look at what I just found, So as soon as he posted that, I went to the URL and I started digging around in it and I'm like, oh, it's codename Oasis. I can see. Cause I clicked on something and I saw Oasis and he said, you're correct. The codename is Oasis. But then I looked it up cause I'm like, I think there's already something at Microsoft code named Oasis. And Oasis was the code named Microsoft was using for the holographic shell when they were gonna build that into windows 10. Well, they

Leo Laporte (01:54:36):
Don't that anymore. <Laugh>

 Mary Jo Foley (01:54:38):
No, but he's like, okay, we can reuse that code name, but it made me think for a second. Maybe this is about holograms and about mesh and, and mesh for teams. But he then found a link that showed. It's not about that. It's actually about this product. He found a while ago that they still haven't announced called Microsoft designer. We don't really know what this product is. Like I said, it hasn't been announced yet, but it has a connection with this Microsoft create thing. So he posted a screenshot that says here's designer preview. And it says, we use your content plus AI to create designs for you. And it shows how you can

Leo Laporte (01:55:19):

 Mary Jo Foley (01:55:20):
That's pretty cool. Yep. So they, you enter, it could be like you're designing an Instagram post or a brochure or something for your family, like an invitation to a party. You can hook up your media templates and all kinds of stuff like this. So this seems to be connected to what designer and, and create seem to be connected to the code name, Oasis.

Leo Laporte (01:55:44):
This is what I get when I log in. Thank you for your interest. We're busy working and not ready for you

 Mary Jo Foley (01:55:49):
Yet. Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:55:50):
Yep. Come back and visit in the future.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:55:53):
Yeah. I wonder when they're gonna announce this. How does

Leo Laporte (01:55:56):
Walking cat get in there though? I don't understand.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:55:58):
Oh, walking cats, like a amazing this guy. He, he finds things all the time.

Leo Laporte (01:56:03):
I want this designer. This is great.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:56:05):
Yeah. Pretty cool. Right?

Leo Laporte (01:56:07):
Yeah. Yeah.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:56:09):
Yeah. So I don't know when maybe so name always about it. Yeah. Maybe we'll hear about it at ignite. I don't know. Maybe.

Leo Laporte (01:56:15):
Very cool.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:56:16):

Leo Laporte (01:56:18):
Wow. You leave me wanting more, but instead I'm just gonna have a beer. Do you have a recommendation? I love the name of this one.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:56:26):
Do, this is hysterical. <Laugh> there's a brewery in New Hampshire called Des deciduous, Des deciduous brewing. Oh, they have a whole series of beers. They call the lollipop forest <laugh> and when you drink one, you see why they call it. This it's very, it's a, it's advertised as a fruited sour, but because they add milk sugar, it's very sweet. Ooh. I recently had one that was a combination of Blackberry and raspberry. And I, I said to a friend, if you, if you blindfolded me and gave me this, I would've thought I was drinking a smoothie, not beer. It does not taste like beer. Wow.

Leo Laporte (01:57:00):

Paul Thurrott (01:57:01):
That second photo on screen looks like a tiny can between two fingers.

Leo Laporte (01:57:06):
<Laugh> yeah. Except it's not, it's a tiny can between two five, between two words. I saw that

Paul Thurrott (01:57:11):
I was like, that's how they're keeping the alcohol down.

Leo Laporte (01:57:14):
<Laugh> it's a, world's tiniest can mm-hmm <affirmative>

 Mary Jo Foley (01:57:18):
Only 6%. But it, when I drank it, I'm like, okay, it was good, but definitely not a beer. It feels definitely like I just drank a Blackberry raspberry smoothie. Wow. Which you know, and this kind of weather, maybe it's not a bad thing. Maybe

Leo Laporte (01:57:30):
It's not the end of the world. Yeah,

 Mary Jo Foley (01:57:31):

Leo Laporte (01:57:32):
No lollipop forest from Des deciduous brewing company.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:57:38):

Leo Laporte (01:57:39):
Just a New Hampshire kind of a crazy name for a,

 Mary Jo Foley (01:57:42):

Leo Laporte (01:57:42):
Is brewing company,

 Mary Jo Foley (01:57:43):
I guess because Des deciduous trees. Right, right. And they're in New Hampshire. Right. Obviously

Leo Laporte (01:57:47):
Leaves, fall off colors, change and all that.

 Mary Jo Foley (01:57:51):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:57:53):
Wow. Thank you everybody. If you think this show is too short and I know very few of you do, but if you think this show is too short, don't forget this cat right here has a little something extra for you called hands on windows. Right now it's a club exclusive, but should enough people listen to it and we can get some advertising going on it. We absolutely will go public with it. But thank you club members cuz you're supporting it. So if you are in club twit, absolutely. Check it out. It's on the TWiTplus feed or you can subscribe, you get a dedicated feed for it. I think you can just buy it for 2 99 as well, if you want. And that's 2 99 a month. So that's like, what is that? $3 divided by four 75 cents a show. It's nothing, nothing. <Laugh>. And you get, at least we guarantee, I like

Paul Thurrott (01:58:45):
The amount of time you spent on that matter.

Leo Laporte (01:58:47):
<Laugh> at least at least 75 cents of good sometimes information. Maybe more, maybe even more. We can't promise, but you know, you might no, it's a hands on windows. You're at, this is, you've done a bunch of episodes, but I think we've released only one so far.

Paul Thurrott (01:59:05):
Just one I thinks one's coming out tomorrow. Good. The first two are kind of on the long side for a, for this type of show 15 to 20 minutes, but that's because they're top 10 lists are bottom 10 lists. You nice. Top 10. Well actually 11 top 11 features and windows 11 11 worst features. <Laugh> this is 11 I think is the one that's

Leo Laporte (01:59:22):
Coming out tomorrow. Oh, that sounds great. 

Paul Thurrott (01:59:24):
Yeah, some good multitasking stuff. I'm gonna do keyboard shortcuts. Lots of

Leo Laporte (01:59:29):
Stuff too. And now Paul's in discord. So you might even be able to, to say something to him. <Laugh> we got him into the discord to just before the show began. So are you curious about all this? Yes you are. All you have to do is join club twit seven bucks a month and that's not all you get a whole lot more add free versions of every show we do. Of course there are special shows for club members like the untitled Linux show Stacey's book club. We're gonna do a new book in a couple of weeks Clara and the sun, which is I'm loving this book. That'll be August 25th next at a couple of weeks, Alex Lindsay hasn't asked me anything in the club. Those are all club specials. If you don't get there live, you can listen on the TWiTplus feed that's part of your membership.

Leo Laporte (02:00:18):
So you get ad free versions of every show. You get the twit plus feed. You also get access to the discord. And the discord is a really fun way to not only participate with our hosts but also to participate with other club members because there's all sorts of topics, not just shows, but beer, wine cocktails, coding comics, food, ham, radio hardware show, and tell sports, everything. Join, join the club. There's even a conversation about the twit cruise. Join the club. All you have to do <laugh> is go to twit that's. Anyway, this, this court is activist. Frick says Sorachi Kevin Brewer, thank you as always the perfect GIF for the moment. Twi.Tv/Club TWI. It really helps us. Especially as you know, the recession is kind of starting to hit us. Advertisers are cutting back and so forth. And so this is the way we can smooth out those ups and downs. Plus it gives us the money to do additional stuff like hands on windows, subscribe mm-hmm <affirmative> we love new members, TWI. And you'll see there a link where you can get it for 2 99. If you just want Paul, if all you want is just Paul, you can get it. <Laugh> this show is video. That's

Paul Thurrott (02:01:41):
The show. That's that's a weird little subscription, but yeah, it's

Leo Laporte (02:01:44):
Out there. Hey, Hey, you'd be surprised. We do windows weekly every Wednesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern time, 1800 UTC. You can watch us do it, chat for free in It's at IRC chat room. You can use your browser to go there and, or use an IRC client. If you want, you get your choice, you can also chat in the club, TWiTdiscord, which is always a lot of fun. It's always a lot of weird. But, but there it is. And <laugh> Mary Jo Foley. You put that in there. <Laugh> I did not. No. Okay. I

 Mary Jo Foley (02:02:28):
Didn't put the, I didn't put the little risque thing that just was put in

Leo Laporte (02:02:31):
There. <Laugh> hands on Paul's shorts. No, I that's something else entirely. I did not

Paul Thurrott (02:02:36):
Do that. It's disappointing enough already.

Leo Laporte (02:02:37):
Let's just but it has good. It would be a good acronym hops. Anyway if you don't want to pay, you can get it for free with ads, of course at, there's a YouTube channel dedicated to this show and all of our other shows each has its own channel. And of course, because it's a podcast, you don't have to use Spotify to listen. You can listen with any podcast client, including Spotify, just subscribe to windows weekly. You'll get it automatically on a Wednesday afternoon, right after we finish <laugh> Paul says I will survive this <laugh> that's great. I'm so glad you're in there. Paul. Now it's, you're gonna have a lot of fun in that. I'm

Paul Thurrott (02:03:21):
I just I'm so worried about being distracted, but I really do like this kind of

Leo Laporte (02:03:24):
Thing. No, it's great. I think this is the future of social entirely, you know, discord and it's like are really you hanging out with the people you care about right. Isn't that what Facebook promised, but didn't deliver.

Paul Thurrott (02:03:36):
I mean, I it's, it's not antagonistic enough for me, but yeah. You know, I

Leo Laporte (02:03:40):
See it. I see it. Yeah. Well, that's the nice thing about it being club members only, cuz only, you know, if you pay seven bucks to be in there, you're not gonna waste your time being a jerk, you know? That's good. Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic. Yeah. Fair enough folks. We will be back next Wednesday. You'll find Paul throughout all That's his website T H U R R O double his books, the field guide to winners 10 soon to be the field guide to winners 11 Mary Jo Foley writes for and they're really both of them super great to subscribe to, to pay attention to during the week, but then come back on a Wednesday for windows weekly. Stay cool guys. Is it hot in McKen? Lower MCCE as well?

Paul Thurrott (02:04:32):

Leo Laporte (02:04:32):
Is. Oh boy.

Paul Thurrott (02:04:34):
Yeah, this whole week's been. Yeah. So it says it's 86. I

Leo Laporte (02:04:38):
Shit. And 86. I mean it's 86 here, but at 86 here, it's

Paul Thurrott (02:04:42):
Gonna be 95 95 tomorrow. O 90 on Sunday, 90 on Monday.

Leo Laporte (02:04:48):
It's huge. It's gonna be here. You know what's good. What's

Paul Thurrott (02:04:51):
Good. Mexico city. 74 degrees.

Leo Laporte (02:04:53):
Oh yeah. That's cuz it's an altitude. Very nice.

Paul Thurrott (02:04:57):
I'm going there. I'm going. I'll be there next week.

Leo Laporte (02:04:59):
Are you? Oh good. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> oh, I'm glad to hear it. All right guys. Have a great week. Enjoy Mexico city. We'll see you next week on windows weekly. Bye bye

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