Windows Weekly Episode 784 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for windows weekly. Paul thwarts here, Mary Jo Foleys here. We've got lots to talk about the success of windows 11 in the consumer market, Microsoft playing games with the insider program. Why are some insiders more equal than others? And then Paul shows us a great new trick that eliminates the Microsoft account for signing on windows 11 setup. I think you're gonna wanna stay tuned for that. It's all coming up next on windows, weekly podcasts you love

TWiT Intro (00:00:30):
From people you trust.

Leo Laporte (00:00:32):
This is,

Leo Laporte (00:00:38):
This is windows weekly with Paul Thora and Mary Jo Foley episode 784 recorded Wednesday, July 6th, 2022 windows leaky. The live stream. This episode of windows weekly is brought to you by infra scale infra scale delivers industry leading data protection through backup and disaster recovery, whatever your data or environment INFR scale provides continuity and resiliency for your business. Visit inf to get the free ebook five essential components of a ransomware protection plan and learn how to protect your business today and by thanks Canary detect attackers on your network while avoiding irritating, false alarms. Get the alerts that matter for 10% off and a 60 day money back guarantee. Go to and enter the code TWITt. And how did you hear about his box and by Tanium Tanium, unites operations and security teams with a single platform that identifies where all your it data is patches.

Leo Laporte (00:01:45):
Every device you own in seconds and implements critical security controls all from a single pane of class. Are you ready to protect your organization from cyber threats? Learn more at it's time for windows weekly. Hello dozers. <Laugh> the show where we get together. I thank you by the way to Micah Sergeant who does such a good job on windows weekly, the people are actually tweeting me not to come back. Yeah, please retire. Please retire. They're saying Mike is so much better. His passion, his, his interest passion. His curiosity for windows makes it a much better show. You know what? Leo,

Mary Jo (00:02:27):
He always asks us stumping questions.

Leo Laporte (00:02:29):
Yeah. He's okay. Yeah. <laugh> I, I just asked a question off the air, but I asked a question. I'm not completely against it. They don't like it. That I mention Linox I probably shouldn't mention

Mary Jo (00:02:41):
Lennox. That's it? Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:02:43):
That's it. Yeah. Anyway, thank you, Mike. You Linux Linux is in the notes today. Whoa, don't be still my heart. <Laugh> don't get my hopes up here. Paul and I are gonna be here next week, but the following week we will not be here. Mary Jo Foley will be taking the helm for a very special windows weekly that's by the way, I forgot to introduce you guys. That's Mary Jo Foley all about Hello? Herid net blog on the right on the left. It's Mary Jo Foley. No, it's Paul Thra of Hello

Paul Thurrott (00:03:18):
Side. I have to be on because people freak out if we switch sides.

Leo Laporte (00:03:21):
Yeah. You're it's embedded now in our consciousness. Yeah, in fact, it was so weird.

Mary Jo (00:03:26):

Leo Laporte (00:03:27):
Ooh. When, when we couldn't use the studio a couple weeks ago and we had to go in the big studio and, and at first you guys reversed it. It freaked me out.

Mary Jo (00:03:34):

Leo Laporte (00:03:35):
Yeah. It's like, I

Paul Thurrott (00:03:35):
Don't. So just in case you are concerned that most people who watch this don't have OCD. Good news.

Leo Laporte (00:03:41):
<Laugh> everybody does.

Paul Thurrott (00:03:43):

Leo Laporte (00:03:43):
Do. So Mary Jo, do you wanna say anything about let's see

Paul Thurrott (00:03:50):
This here's the hint.

Leo Laporte (00:03:51):
Yeah. This is gonna be the 20th, I think. Right?

Mary Jo (00:03:54):
Here's the hint. When the cats are away, the mice will play.

Leo Laporte (00:03:59):
Is it gonna be all hoodoop all the time?

Mary Jo (00:04:02):
Yes. <laugh> I think,

Paul Thurrott (00:04:04):
I think she's fashioning a coup do we need to be concerned?

Leo Laporte (00:04:07):
Ah, nah, we're just, you know, what if she takes over

Mary Jo (00:04:09):
All I'll say is two special guests, not just, okay. We're gonna have a four box with Micah, me and the two gifts.

Leo Laporte (00:04:18):
How exciting.

Mary Jo (00:04:19):
Wow. It's gonna be two people. I don't know. Have they ever been on the show before? I'm not sure. 

Paul Thurrott (00:04:24):
I hope one of them is Frank. Shawn. He brings his thro bot with him. So

Leo Laporte (00:04:29):
That would be

Mary Jo (00:04:30):
Quite human. Frank Shaw with a Paul thout mask. Yes, <laugh>. That's all I'm gonna say. We want it to be a surprise. Good.

Leo Laporte (00:04:39):
So in two weeks while Paul and I are up in Alaska with a hundred of few Mary Jo and the cats will play, I thought it might be an all Sorachi edition

Paul Thurrott (00:04:49):
In this scenario.

Leo Laporte (00:04:50):
Get's the

Paul Thurrott (00:04:50):
Mice, but yes,

Mary Jo (00:04:52):
The mics, the mice will be playing.

Leo Laporte (00:04:55):
And for those of you going on the cruise, Paul and I have been slaving for the last five weeks on a fabulous two hour presentation.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:02):
<Laugh> I was under the impression we were giving up our Friday to spend the entire day working up this present.

Leo Laporte (00:05:08):
Oh, is that, is that your impression? Is it okay? Well, we could do that Friday. I think you and I, and our spouses are gonna visit beautiful Seattle, Mary Jo used to live there and Paul, you must have been there many times.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:24):
Oh, I mean dozens and

Leo Laporte (00:05:26):
Dozens. Yeah. So, so I mean, isn't this kind of a busman's holiday, as one, one says

Paul Thurrott (00:05:33):
<Laugh>. Yeah, but I haven't been in so long. I, oh, you know, actually one of the tr the awful things about this trip is I can't really see a lot of my friends who live there.

Leo Laporte (00:05:41):
I know mm-hmm, <affirmative>

Paul Thurrott (00:05:42):
I'm hoping that we get an in person, Microsoft event sometime in the near future. And that will finally happen, but it's been a while

Leo Laporte (00:05:50):
I have I have a little map. <Laugh> a little trip tick of our journey. We're gonna be staying at the beautiful Edgewater in oh, man, where you can fish out your window. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> then we're gonna go over

Paul Thurrott (00:06:02):
In a future trial.

Leo Laporte (00:06:03):
Yeah. <laugh> yeah. Well, yeah, just don't say you're with the band and you'll be okay. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> then we're gonna go to the museum of pop culture, Mo pop former, the, the experienced music project, Paul Allen's rock and roll and culture museum, which I haven't seen since the Xbox op release in 2000. Wow. 2001. Yeah, they did that there.

Paul Thurrott (00:06:27):
I haven't been there since they changed the name.

Leo Laporte (00:06:29):
Yeah. Mean neither space needles. Right next door, the Chile garden and glass,

Mary Jo (00:06:36):
Which is so awesome.

Leo Laporte (00:06:37):
Is it? Yeah, beautiful. Glen Fleishman says it's kind of a pricey ticket, but you know, it

Mary Jo (00:06:41):
Is it's worth it.

Leo Laporte (00:06:43):
It's so cool. I thought we should go in the climate pledge arena will wave as we walk by the Pacific science center. And then I'm looking for somebody who works for Amazon, who could give us a tour.

Paul Thurrott (00:06:53):
You can walk by at least, I

Leo Laporte (00:06:55):
Mean, yeah, we can walk by, but, but Glen says, if you, if you get an Amazon employee and they make an appointment, you can get a tour of the spheres inside.

Paul Thurrott (00:07:02):
So they call it the terrarium, cuz that's what I would

Leo Laporte (00:07:04):
Call it. <Laugh> it's like a terrarium anyway. And then based on Mary Jo's recommendation, we have a table for four at the pink door.

Mary Jo (00:07:15):
You will love

Leo Laporte (00:07:16):
It. And heavy drinking at the Arctic club after. And if people wanna,

Mary Jo (00:07:19):
Oh, fun, you're gonna go to the Arctic club,

Leo Laporte (00:07:21):
Please. I didn't make a reservation, but I figured if we're still standing, it's pretty cool there. Yeah. Pretty cool. And if anybody wants to meet us there, we should be there by maybe eight o'clock on Friday, the 15th a week from Friday. Lisa and I, Paul and Stephanie and you know what Richard Campbell maybe. And we can get Rafael and Richard to join us. That would be fun at the Arctic mm-hmm <affirmative> what's cool about the Arctic club.

Mary Jo (00:07:48):
It's a very historic place. Like it's very, it feels like the era of what am I trying to think of? I can't think of the word right now, but prohibition like the 1920s prohibition. Yeah. Like prohibition. It is. Yeah. It feels like that. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like that. Like

Paul Thurrott (00:08:05):
Speakeasy kind of a thing very

Mary Jo (00:08:07):
To keep asking El question's beautiful.

Leo Laporte (00:08:08):
It's also a hotel. We could have stayed there. There I didn't that. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:11):
Yeah. We went to the roof of that place always to those Microsoft event. Was that nest or something or?

Mary Jo (00:08:16):
Yeah, the nest, I think. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:18):
I just kinda like that there because they got that Vista view of Harbor

Mary Jo (00:08:22):
And Down's near pike place market. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:08:26):
Oh we, yeah. And put that on the list. I guess we could go to what there, watch, 'em throw fish.

Mary Jo (00:08:30):
If you guys get well you're the pink tour is in the market. If you get into the pink tour balcony, you'll be able to see the water,

Leo Laporte (00:08:37):
The mountains. That's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. They, you can't reserve it ahead. You have to just, no, but we're getting there at five 30. I figured they'll they'll

Mary Jo (00:08:44):
Get it. Yeah. You might get it. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:08:46):
How excited it's a Hilton, the Arctic club. I didn't know that

Mary Jo (00:08:50):
It's a very cool hotel and very

Leo Laporte (00:08:52):
Cool. Everything's

Paul Thurrott (00:08:53):
A Hilton or a

Leo Laporte (00:08:54):
Matter something one or the other. Look at that cool bar.

Mary Jo (00:08:56):
Yeah. That's what it looks like. It looks exactly like that. Oh.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:58):
That's like the bar from the shining. I love that.

Mary Jo (00:09:01):

Leo Laporte (00:09:02):
Paul and I will be on the ends tools.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:04):

Leo Laporte (00:09:05):
Lloyd listing slightly. <Laugh> all right. That's gonna be fun. That's I don't and I don't mean to leave you at Mary Jo. You're going on the next one.

Mary Jo (00:09:14):
I I'm going vicariously, so yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:09:16):
Yeah. It's gonna be

Mary Jo (00:09:17):
Fun. I I'm glad you guys are going. It's good. Yeah. I, I'm not ready to do

Paul Thurrott (00:09:20):
This. I think this is fair. She went to St. Louis and you know, I'm going, that's

Leo Laporte (00:09:23):

Mary Jo (00:09:23):
That was fine. St. Louis, Alaska, you know, like same thing. It's how

Leo Laporte (00:09:27):
Much did this, you know,

Mary Jo (00:09:29):
Hey, we had fried ravioli. That's all I'm saying. Wow.

Leo Laporte (00:09:32):
That was wild.

Mary Jo (00:09:33):
That was cool. I loved

Leo Laporte (00:09:34):
It. And I'm thinking last time. It's no, it's no clam cake. Let me just put it that way. So

Mary Jo (00:09:39):
It was good though.

Leo Laporte (00:09:40):
I like reg I'd like to try the regional delicacies and that apparently is a St. Louis.

Mary Jo (00:09:45):
Yeah. It was very nice. I thought,

Leo Laporte (00:09:46):
Yeah, that was good. It was fun. That was a fun trip. I agree. It was.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:50):
And that was the beginning of the pandemic. You guys,

Leo Laporte (00:09:52):
It was the last trip. It was March 2nd, 2020. We probably shouldn't have gone in the first place.

Mary Jo (00:09:58):
I know the airports were empty. Like I remember walking into JFK and I'm like, there's nobody here. Okay. Mm-Hmm

Leo Laporte (00:10:05):
<Affirmative> yep. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:10:08):
It's not like that. Now

Mary Jo (00:10:09):
We made it. We made it through. Yeah. It's definitely not like that. Now. <laugh> very busy now. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:10:16):
Yep. Okay. Let's talk about windows 11. I've missed you. Windows 11. That thing.

Paul Thurrott (00:10:23):
Well, why haven't, I've been living in windows 11.

Leo Laporte (00:10:26):
Tell me all about it. What is, what is new?

Paul Thurrott (00:10:31):
Well, the newest thing is we have two little data points that suggest that windows 11 is now on 20% of I'm gonna say consumer PCs, cuz these are both

Leo Laporte (00:10:41):

Paul Thurrott (00:10:41):
Data points. The first is from our friends of ad duplex who put the usage share at 23.1%. So almost 25 up from 19.7. Now that's just within windows, right? So that's TW 23.1% of all windows PCs used by individuals running windows 11. And then we also know that from steam because they put out this report monthly as well. <Laugh> okay. That about 20% of people gaming through steam are now using windows 11. Huh? So I think those, those did nicely consistent.

Leo Laporte (00:11:16):
Did they give the windows 10 percentage?

Paul Thurrott (00:11:20):
Yeah. It's needy. Oh no. It's like nos. No, actually I didn't. No

Mary Jo (00:11:24):
It's from, it's close to

Leo Laporte (00:11:25):
80 there's but you could play steam on on Linux. I look and you could play look steam on Mac. So, but I mean they're not are not as many games, but now cuz of the steam deck, I think that Linux probably has a bigger actually

Paul Thurrott (00:11:38):
Disproportion its pretty close. So it's windows 10 is 71.2, 6%.

Leo Laporte (00:11:43):
Wow. Wow. So 91% windows on this steam. Yep. Steam is a, for those who don't know gamers library and very, very dominant in the PC world.

Paul Thurrott (00:11:54):
Yeah. Well PC, I mean desktop gaming is PC for the most part. Absolutely. That

Leo Laporte (00:12:00):
Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:12:02):
Interesting. It gonna change by the way. That's gonna change, but right.

Leo Laporte (00:12:04):
Well the steam deck, which is a Linux device is at least encouraging developers. I don't think it's gonna have much market penetration. Cause it's pricey. We play, we, Mike had got one and reviewed it. It's it's yeah. Less than impressive, but it's convincing a lot of developers to make their games available on Linux. So that may make Linux a better platform for gaming. It's actually not bad.

Paul Thurrott (00:12:25):
I was the thing. I think that Mac is gonna make egg roads on game and gaming as well. Thanks to the power, this processors,

Leo Laporte (00:12:31):
They got a challenge though. Cuz they don't, they don't now no longer support in video or AMD. You

Paul Thurrott (00:12:37):
That's gonna change. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:12:38):
That's gonna change. That's gonna be

Paul Thurrott (00:12:39):
Interesting. Or, or they just kick it, you know, kid it outta the park with their own

Leo Laporte (00:12:42):
Stuff. I think that's what their plan is, is to make a metals, which is their direction, be a dominant, you know, be really good and then, you know, have GPUs that support it. But then they've got to get developers to go along for the ride. That's not gonna be easy. Yeah. So it's an interesting, you know, this is the problem Mac Apple's had all along with the Mac, getting game companies to release stuff on the Mac has never been easy. And I don't, I don't know if it's gonna get easier. So this is consumer numbers.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:09):
That's right. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:13:11):
Surpr. Is it a surprise? Is it larger than you'd think or?

Paul Thurrott (00:13:14):
Well, I, my, my first reaction was this seems better than I would've thought, you know, it's only been a year. Yeah. You know, but then you have to, you put it in perspective as consumer PCs. Right? How many businesses have upgraded to windows? 11 three. Probably not many. Like, yeah. It's not that many. So if you, I mean, I don't know what the mix is really. It's not 50 50 between consumers and businesses. No. We always used to use this kind of two thirds, maybe one third kind of split. And I guess if we just pretend that that's true, you know, 30 what's 20% of 35% <laugh>, you know 7% I think is the number, some, something like that. So it's, it's, it's actually not great. And you know, Microsoft has spent a lot of the past year touting its success getting, they don't really say it consumers, but it's individuals upgraded from windows 10 to windows 11. They've never once provided a figure.

Mary Jo (00:14:09):

Paul Thurrott (00:14:10):
So actually I, you know, we're, we're not quite at the airplane, but

Mary Jo (00:14:15):
You know what makes us more complicated? We've said it a couple times. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> because not every PC can be upgraded to windows 11. That's true. That's right. That adds a new, like extra thing to figure in when you're figuring out these comparisons. Right. That's a good, like there are people who aren't willing to take the risk that Microsoft not might not provide security updates though. We think they will for windows 11, if you're running unsupported. So that's right. Yeah. There are there's people who will never upgrade because

Paul Thurrott (00:14:42):
It's not, it's not just that they, most normal people just won't ever be offered the upgrade because of that. So they won't even yes. Know about it or

Leo Laporte (00:14:49):
Think about it. But that's not really a change from the way Microsoft's always done business. You got the new version of windows, not cuz you downloaded it because you bought a new PC.

Mary Jo (00:14:58):
Right. Well you bought a new PC with it. Great.

Paul Thurrott (00:15:00):
Well the, yeah, the two factors that go into that are that windows 11 marks the first time since windows Vista, that Microsoft has raised the system requirements. It's

Leo Laporte (00:15:11):
Wow. Has it been since that's, since we started this

Paul Thurrott (00:15:13):
Show windows yeah. Seven, eight and 10 all had the same basic system requirements.

Leo Laporte (00:15:18):

Paul Thurrott (00:15:19):
I just, I know it's astonishing, but that doesn't, it's not that even it doesn't, but that, that doesn't mean exactly. Like you had a windows Vista computer, you could go to 10 cuz actually you couldn't. Right. So there's still an age of device issue in there, but you know, windows and windows seven and windows eight, one users could go to 10. They could do so for free for the first year-ish right. The difference now is you're only coming from 10, but of course 10 is really the only thing out in the market anyway. So that's not much of a limitation, but it is what Mary Jo said. They're they're artificially limiting the number of PCs and we don't, we don't really have, we never got a number for that. But if you think like it was 2021 and they said, basically we'll just call it like an eighth gen processor. 11Th gen was new. So we're talking about PCs that are three years older, newer for the most part. Not exactly. It's not an even line, but let's just say three years. That actually leaves out a pretty good chunk of the install base. It has to be over 50% has to be.

Leo Laporte (00:16:19):

Paul Thurrott (00:16:21):
But does I don't I've never seen an exact or an even a, an attempt at

Leo Laporte (00:16:26):
Of course. Now I think it's IDG is saying PC sales are gonna slump, which will slow that as

Paul Thurrott (00:16:33):
They should. Yeah. Yeah. But they've, they've reached a nice new high and they're talking about something kind of around 300 million units per month,

Leo Laporte (00:16:43):
Too many. What? <laugh> wait a minute. What is that? The figures?

Paul Thurrott (00:16:47):
Yeah. It's it's a little under, but it's roughly there. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:16:50):
God. <Laugh>, you know, that's

Mary Jo (00:16:52):
A slump, right? <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:16:53):
That's pretty amazing. We were talking yesterday about apple, perhaps cutting iPhone production for the first quarter of its release this year, the iPhone 14 to, to 90 million in a, in a three month period, 30 million, one 10th, the number a month. I

Paul Thurrott (00:17:11):
Know, I

Leo Laporte (00:17:11):
Know. I mean, and I would've thought if you, if you go ask somebody on the street, which sell faster PCs or iPhones, you would say iPhones

Paul Thurrott (00:17:19):
Always. Well, it is well, no,

Leo Laporte (00:17:22):
It's not, not you're saying 300 million units a month.

Paul Thurrott (00:17:26):
That can oh no, no. I'm a year.

Leo Laporte (00:17:28):
A year. Sorry, Don wonder I was staggered. Not a

Paul Thurrott (00:17:31):
Year. No

Leo Laporte (00:17:31):
A yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now I, sorry. Sorry. Okay. That's right. A year a year. Did I? I must have misunderstood. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (00:17:37):
I'm sorry. I, I might have misspoken. I'm sorry. It's a year

Leo Laporte (00:17:40):
A year. I don't okay. That makes more sense.

Mary Jo (00:17:42):
I was thinking a year in my head, but I think you said a month, but yeah, I was thinking

Paul Thurrott (00:17:45):
A year. Did I say I'm so sorry. It's it's per year that's okay.

Mary Jo (00:17:47):
So we'll let

Leo Laporte (00:17:48):
You slide them. So it is more iPhones, but, but it's not a lot more,

Paul Thurrott (00:17:51):
Oh, many more.

Leo Laporte (00:17:52):

Paul Thurrott (00:17:53):
Well, no it 20%

Leo Laporte (00:17:54):
More maybe.

Paul Thurrott (00:17:55):
Yeah. You're well, but you're, it's not the same number every quarter for apple. Right. They probably have a bananas a quarter. They

Leo Laporte (00:18:00):
Do. That's just wonderful. The holiday season. That's right. It's not gonna 10 times four. Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:05):
Yeah. But

Leo Laporte (00:18:06):
Maybe a hundred apple, maybe half that many hundred 50 million

Paul Thurrott (00:18:09):
A year. Apple is under 20% of the market from a worldwide for, for unit.

Leo Laporte (00:18:14):
And this 300 million is, is global.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:16):
That's right?

Leo Laporte (00:18:18):
Yeah. That's I mean it's despite year it's

Paul Thurrott (00:18:22):
Better. It's better than it's

Leo Laporte (00:18:23):
What you're undercutting the amount by my overstating. It, it's still a very large number. It's still big. It

Paul Thurrott (00:18:29):
Is. It's better than it was before the pandemic.

Leo Laporte (00:18:31):
That's like a billion every three plus years. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:34):
Remember there was a six or almost seven year period where PC sales had gone down every year. And I, I always talked about, there's got, at some point there's gotta be a plateau because people just need some number of PCs. We're still using PCs. It's not like they're going away. And and I thanks to the pandemic. If you wanna use that term, it it's gonna be a little bit higher than it was going to be. I think otherwise I think the pandemic reminded people, Hey, you know, we need these things. And then Microsoft will now be a little more aggressive about not supporting older

Leo Laporte (00:19:04):
Hardware. Apple sells around 215 million iPhones a year. So 215. Yeah. So it is more PCs than,

Paul Thurrott (00:19:13):
Yeah. So it's 20%. Yeah. And there are about 20% of market let's say. So there's usually over a billion smartphones smartphones

Leo Laporte (00:19:19):
A year. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Overall,

Paul Thurrott (00:19:22):
That makes sense. I guess.

Leo Laporte (00:19:23):
Yeah. In 2018 they sold 217 million iPhones. Okay. Huh? That's well, you know, these numbers are staggering, but also fascinating. I think,

Paul Thurrott (00:19:34):
Well, if you want put a little asterisk in this conversation, remember that Apple's iPhone business by revenue is bigger than all of us. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:19:40):
Yeah. Yeah. Cause yeah, it's a high profit high margin. So it's presum. I would presume that of those 300 million PCs, the vast majority would be windows 11. Is that right? Or no,

Paul Thurrott (00:19:50):
You know what? I always think that too, but that is not really how it works out ever. And, and I always, I, I have trouble with this every time there's new version of windows, you think, well obviously 80 to 90% of these are gonna be the new that's actually not true.

Leo Laporte (00:20:04):
No. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (00:20:05):
And it's be it's because well,

Leo Laporte (00:20:07):
It's business

Paul Thurrott (00:20:08):
It's because businesses, right. So businesses by, they probably don't technically come without an operating system, but they, maybe they do <laugh>, you know, micro businesses, typically license windows. And it, it's not a version of windows, it's windows and they get to put whatever supported version of windows they want on there. And these days, those guys gonna be putting windows 10 on there. And and I think that's the, that's the issue. If you look at PC sold to consumers. Yeah. It's gonna look like the, the same skewing we saw with the percentages earlier. Those are gonna have windows 11. You probably could not buy a windows 10 PC, at least from a, at least easily, at least like out in the world, in a store retail. Right? Yeah. You're not, you're just not gonna see that. I'm sure you technically could if you, if you really wanted to online or something, but that's not how that's not gonna be the yeah. The typical way that happens. Yeah. So here we go. <Affirmative> so here we go. 20%. Yep. <Laugh> of 35%.

Mary Jo (00:21:10):
<Laugh> <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:21:13):
I mean, what did I say? That was seven is I say seven. I mean, it's possible the actual number of, or percentage of windows, 11 PCs out in the world is maybe 10 ish percent, 10 ish percent. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> which frankly does not sound like a lot after a year, you know, to me. Yeah. But there it is.

Leo Laporte (00:21:32):
I just wanna see how long I can get these awkward pauses to to laugh to you. <Laugh> yeah. I'm just sitting here torturing you. 

Paul Thurrott (00:21:42):
I have other numbers numbers, 5,000. It's a number 23.9 also.

Mary Jo (00:21:47):

Mary Jo (00:21:48):
Give us some prime numbers. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:21:51):
How do you guys feel about negative numbers? 

Leo Laporte (00:21:54):

Mary Jo (00:21:54):
Like them.

Leo Laporte (00:21:56):
All right, let me let's do a little break. Breaky wakey <laugh> and then we'll come back regroup and talk more numbers coming up from Paul and Mary Jo, the number one hosts of windows weekly. Our show today brought, we got brand new sponsor to welcome onto the show today in front scale. I'm sure you've heard the name in for scale is here to protect you from the number one threat to business these days. Ransomware. If you look at talk about numbers, the numbers for ransomware attacks, according to beta news, cyber criminals are capable of penetrating 93% of company networks. That's depressing <laugh> but we've always said when we're talking ransomware with security now is Steve Gibson. We've always said, I always say why, why aren't companies backed up? But it's hard to do because ransomware you know, hackers are very clever.

Leo Laporte (00:22:56):
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Leo Laporte (00:25:07):
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Leo Laporte (00:25:59):
This is an absolute must visit infra Get that free ebook five essential components of a ransomware protection plan. Learn how to protect your business today. Infra scale I N F R a S C a L E infra We thank 'em for their support and for the good work they're doing to protect all those SMBs and enterprises from the bad, bad guys. Paul Thra, Mary Jo Foley to windows weekly, we return and let's let's talk about AB games, not reindeer games. <Laugh> AB games. What is that? I don't even know what that is.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:43):
AB testing. I should have written there.

Leo Laporte (00:26:45):
I like games. Stay with games.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:47):
This is good. I don't mind games. I, I, I don't. I do mind AB testing. I don't, I don't wanna beat this one to death. I've I've been very critical of Microsoft and the insider program and the AB testing. And I've explained why. And I don't, I don't think we have to go through that again, but they're doing it again. And the good news this time, the good, no, there's some good news and this, this is legitimately good. If you end up in the B part of this equation, there's a way for you to get into a, this time and that that's that's okay.

Leo Laporte (00:27:16):
Better. It's better to be an a than B. I mean, does

Paul Thurrott (00:27:18):
It matter? Allow me to explain. It's so hard to explain. Okay. And I, I'm not gonna use build numbers here because it's just too complicated, but basically, as we know, there's an insider program. There's a, a dev channel, a beta channel and a release preview channel. The dev no, the dev channel is off testing stuff. That is not a version of windows. I, I think of it as experimental. There are features that may never make it. The beta channel we've understood lately has been on 22 H two where that's what's there. And then yesterday, or was it today? I guess it was today. Say last night, whenever it was they announced that they were gonna release two builds to the beta channel. And I'm not, let's not get into the, the build numbers. It's a, and B we'll just call 'em a and B a has the potential to get new features. There's a couple of new features, nothing, you know, major, but a couple new features B it's not gonna get the new features. And I, you know, I, again, I, I,

Leo Laporte (00:28:12):
That's not a B testing, a B testing is two different sets of features to see, okay. Not, you get some and you don't, that's not AB testing.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:22):
Yeah. Well, they can't do anything. Right. Leo it's okay. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:28:24):
Well, am I, am I, am I wrong? No, they don't. They don't call those AB testing. Oh, that's no,

Paul Thurrott (00:28:29):
They don't call. Yeah. They

Leo Laporte (00:28:30):
Don't. They just, they don't want to release the new features to the full set of insiders. Right. Gee, see, is create like a, a

Paul Thurrott (00:28:39):
Fast, almost like another channel

Leo Laporte (00:28:40):
And a slow ring, you know, beta channel dev channel. Thank you.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:42):

Leo Laporte (00:28:43):

Paul Thurrott (00:28:43):
That's my complaint. My, my issue with this is I, you went into here, you you're giving up a computer, you're doing the testing and now you're telling me I'm not testing everything. Like what? Yeah. That's why, why it's ridiculous. Anyway, the good news is, like I said, I, the reason I don't wanna go too far on, you know, out off the rails here is if you're in B, you can go up to windows, update, look for updates. There'll be an enabling pack and she can get, you can get a, you can get on a so good. That's good. That's, that's fine.

Leo Laporte (00:29:12):
It's called, it's called an enablement package.

Paul Thurrott (00:29:14):
This is, I definitely wanna talk about this. So I, I, I picked Mary Jo this morning and I said, Hey, I, I need help with this. <Laugh> because I know this came up a couple years ago. I, my, in my head, I know that an an, an enablement PA enablement package is a way to do an update to an op to windows in this case, that brings it up to like a new version, but without doing the whole feature up update date kind of thing. But maybe you can explain this better. Yeah. She seems to have a much better handle on this than I <laugh>, if I'm really confused

Mary Jo (00:29:44):
By this. Yeah. So I agree with Paul, like when we start bringing BA the build numbers into this, it gets super complicated. Right. But what they're trying to test here is the idea of how to deliver 22 H two to people, right? Like this is what they're trying to figure out. And because this is such a small update, they don't wanna say that publicly. They don't wanna say it's such a minor update. We're gonna do it via an enablement package, but that's what it is. Right. So the idea of an enablement package, which they, I think they first tested out with windows 10, 19 0 9 is if you're on the latest build of a version of windows 10, or now in this case, windows 11, if you're on the most up to date, build all patched up. Everything's great. When 22 H two comes out, you'll be getting it using this, an enablement package. So that it's a very small update to you. You own you'll, you might need to reboot once total it'll push the bits down to you. It'll look like a cumulative update. That's how small it will be, but you'll actually be getting a whole new, up a whole new version of windows. Right? Mary

Paul Thurrott (00:30:48):
Jo, how could it be so small? This is a major new release of windows. I don't understand.

Mary Jo (00:30:52):
Yeah. Right. Remember I kept saying to you, why do you think 22 H two is like, got enough stuff to write about for a book, because it feels to me like it's a whole

Paul Thurrott (00:31:02):
Mind, Hey, Hey,

Mary Jo (00:31:03):
Sorry. Its

Paul Thurrott (00:31:05):
At least you get

Leo Laporte (00:31:05):
The green screen of death. So there's there's that you got

Mary Jo (00:31:08):
That going for you. Yeah. No, there are features in it. Right? And so the, what, the reason they're testing it, like this is okay, can we deliver it this way to customers later this fall, when we start pushing 22 H two out, the answer is gonna be yes. Right? Because it's like, yeah, that's how it's gonna work. You're gonna get an enablement package. Okay. Here's there's a lot of things we don't know what happens to windows 10. Like so many people today are paying me like, okay, that's great. That's for windows 1122 H two. But what about windows? 10 22 H two. Like, is that gonna be an enabling package? We don't know. They won't tell us. Right? No idea. I'm guessing. Yes. That, that also will be because that should be a very small update. That'll be as well. Right? The other feature we don't know about still here's the other feature we don't know is tabbed file Explorer in 22 H two. We do not know.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:03):
Oh, actually let, so, so let, let me throw a little, my own little grenade in here for, for a moment because yeah. In the announcement post, this is, and again, we, I have such trouble with this. I think it's just because I'm so used to the way things were for decades that I just, I have trouble with this, but this is goes back to the what channel now is tied to what version of windows I just said earlier, we've sort of come to assume that now that the beta channel is, is 22 H two,

Mary Jo (00:32:31):
It's close to done. This is the yeah. Close to done.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:33):
This is the sentence. As a reminder features, we try it with insiders will ship when they are ready. And not every feature that we try out, the beta channel will ship to general customers. So that's still true. So it's possible like they've tested the file, the file tab, the file. Explore tab feature. You mentioned with some Explorer with some testers, not others. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I don't remember now if that was, that must be, it must be the beta channel. It must be in the beta channel.

Mary Jo (00:32:59):
I think it's the be

Paul Thurrott (00:33:00):
Channel. And so I think what we're looking at here is there's gonna be some set of features that including the two that are enabled <laugh> with this new system today mm-hmm <affirmative> or yesterday and that file explore tabs feature that, you know, may or may not appear. And they may or may not appear when 22 H two is released these things that's right. Might be released at any time, which is part of the confusion. There used to be such a line in,

Mary Jo (00:33:26):
It could be after we don't know. Right? Yep. It

Paul Thurrott (00:33:28):
Could be never, it could be never. Yep. No, it's just, I find that I, I, I really have trouble with that and I don't know that I'm ever gonna get over it.

Mary Jo (00:33:37):
<Laugh> yeah. Paul

Leo Laporte (00:33:39):
Is never gonna

Mary Jo (00:33:40):
Get over it. He is never getting over it.

Paul Thurrott (00:33:42):
No, I just, it just, I, I need the, I need each of these channels to map to something so that I can, so that it makes sense in my brain

Mary Jo (00:33:50):
Also, they aren't, they haven't been consistent between years, right? Like what used to be the beta channel and the release preview channel are not the same thing that are currently the beta and the release preview channel. They're not. Huh? That makes us more complicated, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:34:05):
Yeah. It makes no sense to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Jo (00:34:08):
And is enabling

Paul Thurrott (00:34:09):
The thing they've discovered is, is,

Leo Laporte (00:34:11):
Is that term just used for this that's that's what this that's, it's not something you

Mary Jo (00:34:14):
Need to learn. So they've used it in the past. Oh no. They've used it with windows 10. Like they, they, whenever they make a minor update available in a very small cumulative update fashion, they say, this is, this is done via an enablement package. So you, I think that the way it works is you download an enablement package. Right. And on top of your servicing stack or as part of your servicing stack, and then you get the bits and it makes it just much more seamless, fast, right? Small.

Paul Thurrott (00:34:42):
So <laugh>, I can, this, my brain hurts just thinking about this stuff. So

Mary Jo (00:34:47):

Paul Thurrott (00:34:47):
Broadly speaking, just generally speaking. Yeah. We know that Microsoft has dramatically expanded the ways in which it can update windows. And so this is one of those ways. Yes. And again, at a very high level, I know it's not exactly the same thing, but I need to map it to something that actually makes logical sense with this reminds me of, in some ways, is the R two releases that they did briefly for windows server yep. Where they would be a windows server, 2008 and then 2012 probably released. And then there was an R two of each, I believe. I think those are the two versions. Yeah. And the R two versions were basically yeah. So they had all the, all the, you know, fixes and security fixes and updates and things like that. And then they had some list of features that were all optional, but you could enable them yourself as well as an it administrator. You could go in and say, yeah, do want

Mary Jo (00:35:30):
This right ship off. Right. They would ship off. They, you

Paul Thurrott (00:35:33):
Turn off. That's exactly right. Yep. So in a way, like the equivalent of that today would be it's October, you're running the original version of windows 11 you're, it's completely up to date. You download an enablement package, you don't get to choose, but once you do that, it turns on these new features. So you don't have to update the entire operating system just to get like a new feature for snap or a new accessibility feature, like live captions, whatever. It's, it's a, there's a, it's a fairly finite list of changes. For sure. It's not touching every bit in the operating system. It's certainly not touching most of the apps. And so they've figured out this new way to mm-hmm <affirmative>

Mary Jo (00:36:11):

Paul Thurrott (00:36:12):
I can't, I can't do it. It makes no sense to me. <Laugh>

Mary Jo (00:36:15):
This it's crazy. You, you need to do you need to go, go back and look at your articles on windows 10, 19 0 9, cuz you'll you'll will have written about the enablement package. You will have done this already. That's what it is. Okay. So, all right. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:36:28):
You'll have done it. Paul.

Mary Jo (00:36:30):
He will have done it

Paul Thurrott (00:36:31):
And he, he, you will have

Mary Jo (00:36:32):
Done it. Excellent notes.

Paul Thurrott (00:36:33):
<Laugh> he will have done it. That's an excellent. You done it. I dunno what, I dunno what tense that is, but yes, it's 

Mary Jo (00:36:39):
It's it's fast, fast blue. Perfect. <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:36:45):
Wow, perfect.

Paul Thurrott (00:36:45):
She might be right. She might be right,

Leo Laporte (00:36:49):
But was he ever stung by a dead B? So 

Mary Jo (00:36:53):
<Laugh> a, B

Leo Laporte (00:36:54):
A, B a dead B. Okay. Now that we know we've learned something here today we have, I've got enablement for all those complaining about windows 11 is 11. Are there, are there complaints about windows 11?

Paul Thurrott (00:37:13):
Oh yes. There are Leo. Oh, there are. Yes, there are.

Leo Laporte (00:37:15):
I like it. Hard

Paul Thurrott (00:37:17):
Hardware. No, no. Most of the complaints aren't well, that's not true.

Leo Laporte (00:37:20):
Most complains are I

Paul Thurrott (00:37:21):
Can't get it. Don't like, well, they're, you've taken away features that I used all the time where you've made it more steps. And I gotta say re writing the book as I am now actively my God, the number of places in the OS where there's 1, 2, 3 additional steps is incredible. In the, you know, because that's what happens when you simplify something. But I think the biggest complaints are actually around the hardware stuff, right. The limitations. So kind of arbitrary limitations that prevents people with slightly older computers from updating when in fact windows 11 would run just fine. Yeah. And be just as secure. But anyway, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. So I, in the course of writing the book, of course, I I'm going down to a level, which is a lot deeper than I, I think about windows day to day. And and I'm course, I'm looking at my old book and one of the biggest deals, there's some key chapters in the windows, 10 field guide like the post-install checklist where you kind of go through, like, you just install windows.

Paul Thurrott (00:38:16):
Like here's the list of things you should do right away. And in this order. And here's why, you know, that kind of thing, I think is a kind of a key part of the book. And, but one of the other ones was eliminating all of the most annoying things about windows 10, like right up front, all the advertisements, all the crap where all that kind of stuff. So I don't, I'm trying to, most of this book is completely rewritten from scratch, but there's some tedious parts of it like this part and the, the, the privacy overview, which God killed me before. I, I <laugh> is awful to get through. It's awful. But you know, what's interesting is this would have been a chapter you know, eliminating the most annoying things about windows 11, but as I went through it, I was like, actually most of them have been eliminated already.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:03):
And so this is an interesting case of Microsoft simplifying windows. And instead of causing problems, they've actually caused some good side effects. So for example, in windows 10, there were advertisements in the start menu. The little suggested box up in the corner in windows 11, that a, a list of apps is not available. It's available as a secondary screen, but it's not available right up front. So there's no place to put an ad. Now God does God knows they're working on it, right? <Laugh> like, you know, they're working, but, but as of today that does not exist. And so that's kind of interesting, and this there's kind of a list of those things. And so some of the ones that really stand the one that stands out to be the most is this one of, one of the terrible, the big three terrible things about windows 10 was that Microsoft started bundling crap where with the Aring system right now, this was before windows 10.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:54):
This is the type of thing we complained about from PC makers. And we still do right. You would get like unnecessary antivirus, stupid apps. It'd be like Amazon apps and the task bar. And it's like, what is all this crap in windows 10? They did the same thing. We all know, you know, candy crush, all those terrible apps and games that they put in there in windows 11. They actually still are bundling third party apps. Right. They're but they're, most of them are not crap. I think the one big exception, at least for me would be TikTok. But honestly, when you look through these apps, it's like Spotify prime, video Disney plus Instagram, Facebook. You're like, well, actually, I mean, it's almost like they were, they it's almost thoughtful. Like they were thinking like, what do like normal people want? Those are some of the apps, like, you know, and not that this was untrue, windows 10, but it's easy to get rid of them.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:44):
So it's not a big deal. Like I, to me, like the crap wear thing is a big change. Even though it's a little change, like there's still bundling third party apps, but it's not like bargain basement, awful things. It's like stuff people would actually want. So I think that's kind of cool. I mean, there's, there, there's a few other things that are sort of still in windows 11, but just honors owners or whatever. But the net, the, the net of this is I don't need this, this chapter's gone. Like, I don't have this. Doesn't have to exist anymore. There's a couple little points I can make here or there where like, okay, there's a little thing. Like, it still does like the pop up, like from suggestions like, Hey, would you recommend this computer to others? You know, that kind of thing. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and you can turn that off, like before, but it doesn't warrant a chapter, right? So it's not, this is not, this is not a pro this is not profound, but I think this is, I spend a lot of time complaining about the things that they make harder or worse because they made it simpler or prettier. And this, these are examples of things that are actually better. And I it's, I think it's important to point that out because there's a lot of complaining.

Mary Jo (00:41:49):
Do you think they've just moved the ads though, like that was getting these ads like popup ADSD.

Paul Thurrott (00:41:56):

Leo Laporte (00:41:57):
All of office seems to be getting it every time I open office. I get a,

Mary Jo (00:42:01):
Yeah, I get also, I like a new

Paul Thurrott (00:42:02):
Search, the popup word. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:42:04):
And word a

Mary Jo (00:42:05):
Certain and the news too. Right? Like his doesn't that give you ads somehow, like,

Paul Thurrott (00:42:11):
Look, we could, we could make the argument that the widgets thing in the corner is arguably an ad. Something designed to entice you to go click on other things. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. I think what they've done is because they completely redesign recreated from scratch the task bar start menu. They've lost some of the surfaces they used to have for advertising. And yes, I, I think they're crafty enough and smart enough to be trying to add this spec right now. Yeah. For this little slice of time. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, it's a little benefit and we'll see, you know, that's good. I won't I won't complain about future crimes, but I, I will. I mean, I won't be naive that it couldn't happen for sure.

Mary Jo (00:42:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I like it. I thought, I thought it was nice silver lining in the windows. Well,

Paul Thurrott (00:42:56):
I literally I'm going down the list. I'm like, okay, that's not a big, Nope, that's gone. That. I was like, wow, this, this was a big part of the previous book. Like it was one of the, but

Mary Jo (00:43:04):
You know why they can't, you know why they can't tout this cuz that admits they were putting ads and stuff.

Paul Thurrott (00:43:09):
That's exactly what I wrote today. That's exactly right.

Leo Laporte (00:43:13):
Actually ads that we never put in. We took them out.

Mary Jo (00:43:15):
Exactly. Those weren't ads, serious suggestions. Let me,

Paul Thurrott (00:43:17):
Let me let me redo what I wrote. That's exactly what I wrote. So what I wrote was I said Microsoft fixed these issues and not only did it never tell anyone, but no one else seems to have noticed either. And I, I, I can explain why is Microsoft's case highlighting those specific positive changes would only draw attention to the fact that windows 10 was and still is serving up crap. And in the case of people like us, reviewers analysts and users, Microsoft has bigger issues in windows 11 for us to complain about the hardware requirements, the Microsoft account, internet connection requirement for setup. Those are big. Those are big items. Like you only, you can worry, you can worry about the small things when there are no big things, you know? Yeah. So everyone's attention is kind of elsewhere. And, but like I said, I have to kind of dive into the stuff and in doing so I was like, wow, actually, you know, again, it's not a, it's not like a life changing thing. Exactly. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it kind of is. I mean, this was like I said, this was a big part of the book before

Leo Laporte (00:44:13):
You can declare victory. It's okay. Paul, we know you,

Mary Jo (00:44:15):
You can yeah. Like

Paul Thurrott (00:44:16):
Take, I know it's I know it's temporary. I know it's temporary. Oh, but I'll but I'll take it. I'll take it when

Leo Laporte (00:44:21):
It comes. All I really care about is Lennox, windows, subsystem for Linux. Any, any, anything for me?

Paul Thurrott (00:44:28):
Well, yeah. So

Leo Laporte (00:44:30):
Window subsystem for Android got updated today. Oh, nice.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:34):
Oh, it was Android. I'm sorry, Leo. It was not the winner. Thanks.

Leo Laporte (00:44:37):
I'm sorry. Androids kind of like Lennox.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:40):
Oh boy. No, that was my mistake.

Leo Laporte (00:44:42):
I'm sorry. Got my hopes. It was Paul <laugh>. No w sells fine. It's fine. Yeah. It doesn't need an update, but I would bet the windows.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:53):
Perfect. Just the way it is. Perfect

Leo Laporte (00:44:55):
Little jewel, but I'm thinking the windows system for Android might need a little tweak in here and there

Paul Thurrott (00:45:03):
Probably more than a little. And unfortunately this doesn't, this is just backend stuff. It's they they've changed the way it works. The, the, the Android, the virtual Android device used to have its own IP address. Now it has the same IP address as the underlying system. They've vetted AV one codex support for video playback apps, you know, blah, blah, blah. But obviously the big problem with the windows subsystem for Android, isn't WSA, it's the Android app store for Android thing that Amazon has on top of it. And yeah, there's not, there's no fix for that. <Laugh> so that's another thing I just looked at. You know, you, you bring that thing up. It's a little bit of a process and boy has that thing not evolved at all. Like it's, there's nothing going on there. Yeah. Nothing going

Leo Laporte (00:45:47):
On there. They did do the may Nel patches. That's kind of interesting

Paul Thurrott (00:45:53):
For right time for July. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:45:54):
Well, but you know, my Samsung phone is on may as well. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (00:45:58):
Okay. Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:45:59):
Good. It's only pixel phones that really keep a hundred percent up to date, but still that's I, I wonder, so there's an Android kernel in there, I guess it has to be to run the app. Yeah, sure.

Paul Thurrott (00:46:11):
Yeah. It's the one they're gonna use for hos sh

Leo Laporte (00:46:15):
<Laugh> huh? Huh. Wow. That's interesting. So now my wind is 11 potentially could have a Linux kernel and an Android kernel running. That's right.

Paul Thurrott (00:46:28):
You could have multiple Linux kernels, right?

Leo Laporte (00:46:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wow. That's really in, that's kind of amazing. That's crazy. What a world? What a world? I would've thought this is

Paul Thurrott (00:46:38):
We, we kind of, we, I, I beat to death this thing about windows programming last week with Micah, but <laugh> it this, but this is along the same lines. Like it's, it's like, what is windows anymore? It's like, literally everything <laugh> like, there is no single API. There is no single run time. There's no single anything. It's just, it it's just windows is just open to the world, you know? Yeah. That's really interesting.

Leo Laporte (00:47:03):
That's not a bad thing. I mean, that's a good thing. I think that's a vision clearly a vision by Microsoft or what they want windows to be, which is not.

Paul Thurrott (00:47:13):
And yeah. Well, how windows make sense in the world of today compared to, you know, obviously 20, 30 years ago, windows was, well, windows are still very proprietary, but it was like this kind of unilateral thing. And this was it. This was windows. Yeah. And it's not

Leo Laporte (00:47:27):
Monolithic. It was monolithic, but now it's it's much more like a PLA a real platform in that sense. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yep. Let's take another little, a tiny time out. We're gonna get to a Microsoft 365 and yes, there's Xbox news. Before we do that, we've been talking about security. I thought we could talk about this device, Canary, this little thing, this, I love this Canary from thinks, this is our sponsor for this segment is this little tiny box looks like a, like a external hard drive, maybe a little smaller. It's actually a honey pot. That's easy to configure, easy to set up and totally attractive to bad guys. You heard me say on the last commercial that 93% of all businesses are vulnerable to ransomware that bad hackers can get into them because of a variety of known vulnerabilities. Even if you've got good patching and good perimeter security, it's really important that you have something like this.

Leo Laporte (00:48:27):
Well, this, the thanks Canary sitting in your network, not just one, but you might have a couple spread around attackers. These days are sneaky. They don't just get in trigger malware and run away. No, no, no. They prowl your network. They may be in there right now, looking for valuable data, looking for where you back things up, looking for stuff they can exfiltrate and then blackmail you with on average companies don't know they've been breached for 191 days. That's more than six months. That's crazy. This person is, I mean, that should make you feel kind of queasy. There's somebody, a bad guy prowling around your network. What are they looking for? All kinds of things. They'll browse active directory, looking for file servers. They'll look at file shares. They'll be looking for documents with information they need. They'll try to default passwords against network devices and web services.

Leo Laporte (00:49:26):
They'll scan for open services across the network. That's why you put these in here. They're like canaries in a coal mine that thinks Canary can look like any number of things, any kind of OT hardware, like a skated device. It can look like a server mine set up to look like a Sonology NA. And when it looks like a ology, NA it looks exactly like a ology. NA cuz these attackers are wily. They're you know, they're they may be a little suspicious. So it's got the, the right Mac address. It's got the right software, the, the login screen, they're gonna try a login and a password. And the minute that happens, you're gonna get a, an actionable alert and you're gonna get in the way you want it. No false alarms, just actionable alerts that are gonna tell you you've got a problem. Here's what you need to do.

Leo Laporte (00:50:15):
You can get a via email. You can get a via text message. Canary gives you a console so you can get it there. You can do it through slack. It supports web hooks. So pretty much any app can do that. There's a, if you use syslog, they've got a CI log interface. They've even got a full API. So you can write your own. Canary is, is, is such a great idea that many big companies they're deployed all over the world. Every continent, many big companies have multiple canaries. The other thing you can do with the Canary is, is create Canary tokens. These are files. They look like doc files or XLS files. They're really just trip wires on your network. You know, you can spread 'em around. I have a spreadsheet file that says employee payroll information, see a hacker looks at that goes, oh, that is a goal.

Leo Laporte (00:51:02):
Mine tries to open it. Immediately triggers an alert on the Canary. I love this. It can look like a Linux box. You can put fake files on them. You can name them to get the hacker's attention. You can enroll them in active directory. I just love this look, data breaches happen. The perimeter is not secure. People will get in. You need to know the minute they do. Canary was created. Think these things folks by couple people have traded companies, militaries, governments on how to break into networks and they use the knowledge, their expertise to build the things Canary, one of the best tools against data breaches. And it must have no matter what your perimeter security is. You gotta have some of these inside your network. Big bank may have hundred small businesses, just a few. I'll give you example pricing. When you go to, five of 'em will cost you 7,500 bucks a year.

Leo Laporte (00:52:02):
You get for that hosted console, you get upgrades, you get support, you get maintenance, you sit on Canary, they'll mail you one right out. No cost. All you have to do is use the word TWITt in the, how did they, how did you hear about us box? And you could take 10% off that for life, 10% off for life. And you know what? They know. They're so confident that you're gonna love this Canary, that they have a two months money back guarantee for a full refund. So install it, try it. You get a whole two months to decide whether you wanna keep it The great thing is, you know, is it's doing his job. If nobody's in the network, it's silent. It just alerts you when there's trouble,, enter the code TWITt. And how did you hear about us box? That way you'll get 10% off for life. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you, Canary for supporting windows weekly. And of course you support us when you use that address and that, you know, offer code, then they know you saw it here. Canary dot tool slash TWIT offer code is T w I T back to the show we go and Microsoft 3, 6, 5 is the topic what's up.

Mary Jo (00:53:17):
All right, let's talk about outlook light. Ooh. Just when we thought we were getting fewer versions of outlook, here's

Leo Laporte (00:53:23):
A new one. Is it great taste and less filling? I mean tell me

Paul Thurrott (00:53:27):
It's the tab, the tab version

Leo Laporte (00:53:29):
Tab. Outlook

Mary Jo (00:53:30):
Tab. Yeah. So here's, here's the problem. Microsoft puts this thing on their, on their Microsoft 365 roadmap. They put an entry in saying, we're gonna roll this thing out. July, 2022. It's an Android app that brings the main benefits of outlook in a smaller app size, faster performance to low end devices on the network, running Android, ask Microsoft for more details. We have nothing more to say at this time, okay. You just put this on your roadmap. You guys like <laugh>, it's like it's out in the public domain and you put it there, right? So here's, here's, what's making this confusing. There already is an outlook light app for Android, which I didn't know about, but I saw Dr. Windows said this exists and it's only in some countries, but it's a lighter weight version of outlook that runs on low end devices. It already exists. Right? there are support documents on Microsoft site that reference outlook light like this existing product. So we don't know if this outlook light for Android is an updated version of the existing outlook, light, a more broadly distributed version of it. They won't talk about it, even though it's on their roadmap and it's coming this month at some point. So that's all we got.

Leo Laporte (00:54:41):

Mary Jo (00:54:42):

Leo Laporte (00:54:43):
Is this part of Monarch or is this something else?

Mary Jo (00:54:45):
No. Right. So a lot of people are like, oh, well, there are, they are overhauling outlook into this one outlook thing. Well, the part that wasn't being overhauled was the Android part. Android and iOS were not part of that. It was for windows, the web and Mac, supposedly that was the original three platforms that it was unifying was not unifying the mobile platforms. So it doesn't have anything to do with Monarch. We don't think

Leo Laporte (00:55:10):
<Laugh> okay.

Mary Jo (00:55:11):
Yeah. It's just, it's frustrating because it's like, you guys put this on your own roadmap. It's out in the public domain and now you won't talk about it, even though you put it on there and it's rolling out this month. Right. I get it. You might be saving it for an inspire. Is,

Leo Laporte (00:55:24):
Is this, is this there? Is this gonna be like what was it? Outlook express. Is that the idea? Is it

Paul Thurrott (00:55:29):
No, no. This is so on it's client. There's a, there's a, there's a thing around light clients. It's always element.

Leo Laporte (00:55:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, yes.

Paul Thurrott (00:55:37):
Yeah. And they're designed for emerging markets like India or wherever where the bandwidth,

Leo Laporte (00:55:40):
The low bandwidth. Not very big, right? Yes.

Mary Jo (00:55:44):
Okay. That's what we think this is.

Paul Thurrott (00:55:45):
So I always, I, this is, I, I, I, I put this up on TWITtter and got literally no feedback to this. I, I, I, I, I think people misunderstood what I was trying to say, what this reminds me of is when you see like a food guidelines and they'll say, you know, this is safety, unless you're pregnant. And it's like, well, hold on a second. <Laugh> so if someone's pregnant and shouldn't eat this thing, why would, why would it be okay for us to eat it? It's like, you know, sushi is like full of metals or whatever. It's like, okay, is what that's safe for me apparently, but it's not safe for a baby. Like maybe I should need that either. You know, that kind of thing. So it's like, well, if there's a light version of Facebook or of Google maps or whatever it is, mm-hmm <affirmative>, I mean, why, why don't we just all use that? <Laugh> like, why don't we just use that? I know, right? Why wouldn't we all want the low bandwidth version? I'm sure they don't have as many features, but

Mary Jo (00:56:28):
That's what it's,

Paul Thurrott (00:56:30):
That might be advantageous too.

Mary Jo (00:56:32):
Might be consumer accounts only might not be a business account thing. Right. Right. You know? Right. Really. No. Yeah. So people are asking us a lot of questions about it. Like, why are they doing this? And who thought this was a good idea? I'm like, yeah, we, we don't really even know what this is, except for what it says on their roadmap. Hmm. So, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:56:49):
Right. And it, so Android does have an, Google's always showing this. I don't know if they've ever implemented it, this idea that if you don't have an app, you can kind of say, well, give there's like a stub.

Paul Thurrott (00:57:02):
Oh, for, is it for a web app? Or just a, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:57:04):
I don't know. It's like then like at half downloads, this is not that though. I think you're right. I think this is for emerging markets more.

Mary Jo (00:57:11):
I think it is too. Yeah. I

Leo Laporte (00:57:12):
Think sounds right. Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Jo (00:57:13):
But you know, what's weird on their roadmap. It makes it look like it's gonna be distributed worldwide. Huh. And not just in certain markets.

Leo Laporte (00:57:20):
Well, that's what I'm wondering if it supports some future feature of Android that Google's pushing mm-hmm

Paul Thurrott (00:57:28):
<Affirmative>. Huh? Oh, I like, I, I remember, I see what you're saying. It's like a preview, like you could previous, like it streams the app almost.

Leo Laporte (00:57:35):
Yeah. It's basically streaming is a better way to put it. It's

Paul Thurrott (00:57:37):
Fully. Yeah. Dallas.

Leo Laporte (00:57:40):
And, and is it only for outlook mail or does it work? Is it a male client? A full male client? That's

Paul Thurrott (00:57:46):
A good question. See, that's the thing actually, I don't know. I, I would say a ver a version of outlook mobile. That was just the male client. That would be interesting to me. You know, I, yeah. One of the things that's a little weird about outlook is like mobile is it's a little bit like outlook in the sense that it has all these different things that it does. And it's like, I, you know, I like to use, I just like to, you know, I'm looking for mail. Yeah. I don't need to manage my contacts. I don't have to look at calendar. I don't have to manage cloud storage, which is a weird feature. That app. Yeah. I just I'm here for mail.

Leo Laporte (00:58:15):

Mary Jo (00:58:17):
Remember a year ago Microsoft killed the native versions of some, or maybe all of the office apps for Chromebooks. Remember that? Yeah. That made me wonder if this has anything to do with that. 

Paul Thurrott (00:58:29):
Yeah. So they used to support these, the, the native apps for Chromebook were Android apps, but they were the like tablet apps.

Mary Jo (00:58:36):

Paul Thurrott (00:58:37):
Right. They, yeah. They stopped supporting it. I think probably cuz of the screen size. Right. They didn't want people to access

Mary Jo (00:58:42):
Stuff. Maybe this could be for that. Oh maybe, maybe for Chromebooks. We, we have no way of getting any more info unless they put anymore on their roadmap right now, because they're saying nothing more to share at this time. So their favorite answer. All

Leo Laporte (00:58:57):
Right. Well we'll keep our eye out

Mary Jo (00:58:58):
Then for this. Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:59:00):
Yeah. Interesting. Your

Mary Jo (00:59:01):
Eye out.

Leo Laporte (00:59:02):
Yeah. That's just one more thing to call outlook. That's all

Mary Jo (00:59:05):
Just exactly this thing

Leo Laporte (00:59:06):
For more things they can name out. Well

Paul Thurrott (00:59:08):
They gotta step it up. There's all these things called defender. Now they're in, you know, danger of losing the crowd. Exactly.

Mary Jo (00:59:13):
Oh my God. Exactly.

Leo Laporte (00:59:15):
<Laugh> we need more outlook.

Mary Jo (00:59:18):

Leo Laporte (00:59:19):
What is the family insider program that does not. That does not sound good. What is

Mary Jo (00:59:24):
That? Yeah, I, I didn't know. This is another thing that already existed, which I didn't realize, I guess they have a test program called the Microsoft family insider program. So it's for a lot of different products, not just for windows. It's for they say they tested defender for individuals. You know, speaking of defender, that new version of defender that's for consumers family widget on windows, family safety. They've also participated in OneDrive list, edge and education products. And so now they're soliciting more people to join this insider program. And if you do you can you'll get like virtual monthly calls and newsletter. You'll get to talk virtually to Microsoft. Why,

Paul Thurrott (01:00:04):
Why, why would anyone want this?

Mary Jo (01:00:06):
So some people who have children want more input on what Microsoft's doing, what's family safety, especially, right. I've I've heard,

Leo Laporte (01:00:14):
You're not gonna give it to your kids actually, though. Right? This is

Mary Jo (01:00:16):
No, this is not for, this is for parents. They

Leo Laporte (01:00:19):
Wanna test family features. Obviously

Mary Jo (01:00:21):
They do. Yeah. They wanna test family features and get your input on like, do you think you would use this if we add this feature? Right? I don't,

Paul Thurrott (01:00:31):
I don't know. I don't

Mary Jo (01:00:33):
Know. It's not for you, Paul. It's not for you even

Paul Thurrott (01:00:35):
Though you oh no, my kids are adults now not, but I know I can look beyond my own needs, but I, I, I was talking to Brad about this recently and I feel like parental control functionality should be on whatever platform you're using. Right. So if you using an iPhone or an iPad, it should be, whatever's built into that Android, et cetera, you know? And is there a need for this kind of thing on windows? Yes. I mean, you know, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Are you gonna get any kind of base of users that want to test this stuff? I, this doesn't seem like a big, this reminds me of, you know, like windows insider for business. Like I don't, I don't feel like there's gonna be a lot of engagement here.

Mary Jo (01:01:14):
Yeah. You know what they might be okay with there not being a ton of engagement and just having people who are very interested in it, just like a, a number of those people participate. So here I said to Paul, before the show started, I'm gonna drop a little grenade during the show. Oh, here we

Paul Thurrott (01:01:30):
Goes. Okay.

Mary Jo (01:01:31):
Yeah. So, okay, fam, we, there are a lot of insider programs now, right? Like not just windows insiders, there's office, insider there's edge insider. There's Skype insider. Now there's this family insider. There's also something called the windows customer connection program that they also have been soliciting more participants for. Which seems to be something that came out of the endpoint manager team. They've got customer co-creation program, that's coming outta their cloud group. More things they're asking people to test and participate in what if they're at making all these programs and they're gonna drop inside windows insider. So here's why whoa, on there. Here's why this is me pure speculation. But I'm like, you know, does windows insider really do anything for them right now? Because the

Paul Thurrott (01:02:19):
Way does it do anything positive for them or

Mary Jo (01:02:22):
Anything? No. The way that Microsoft is organized anymore and builds products and talks about products is cross products. They don't just talk about windows by itself. They talk about windows with office windows, with endpoint manager. They talk about a lot of things like that. Right? So what if they've decided like, it doesn't really make sense in the new world for us to have just a windows insider program in and of itself. And instead we have these more like vertical programs where you're testing windows plus stuff together, just me spitballing, as they say

Leo Laporte (01:02:55):
<Laugh> Hmm.

Paul Thurrott (01:02:59):
I already have enough problems with the way the world is right now. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> you have to do you, you're gonna enter this uncertainty. Yeah, this is <laugh>.

Mary Jo (01:03:09):
Okay. You know why I am? Because I feel like the window we talked about this on a few episodes ago, the window's insider program either needs a very big overhaul right now, or they need to, to have a Doover. I feel like, I feel like it's gotten way outta control. Nobody understands the rules. The rings are very ambiguous. This whole thing with the beta thing that we talked about started a show like this was super confusing. Right? Why can't this be simpler? Right. <laugh> that's why I feel like it's

Paul Thurrott (01:03:35):
Well that I agree with

Mary Jo (01:03:36):
It's spun outta control and one way would be to just implode, get rid of it and say instead what you would join. One of these other insider programs that has input into multiple products plus windows. Hmm. You know how Microsoft 365 is windows plus office, right? It's like

Paul Thurrott (01:03:56):

Mary Jo (01:03:58):
It's windows plus. Right. It's not just windows. I don't feel like they look at windows standalone anymore. Like PSA's team is part of edge plus devices. It's not even like just windows. Right. It's combined with other stuff. Just a guess, a guess. That's all somebody puts us in my head the other day and I'm like, wow. It is kind of maybe not so coincidental that all these new insider programs are looking for more people right now at Microsoft. Right,

Paul Thurrott (01:04:27):
Right. Hmm.

Mary Jo (01:04:28):
Okay. Just a, just a speculative grenade. But if I'm right, remember that

Paul Thurrott (01:04:33):
I ran settling Mary Jo <laugh>.

Mary Jo (01:04:36):
I needed to throw a little monkey wrench into your day. You were getting a little cocky. I feel like,

Paul Thurrott (01:04:40):
You know sure.

Mary Jo (01:04:42):
Getting the book done, feeling good about it. Yeah. Now I need to throw a little boom.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:49):

Mary Jo (01:04:50):
Just a guess. Pure guess it just feels like there's so many new insider programs spinning up right now. It feels like, is this coincidental? Really?

Paul Thurrott (01:04:58):
Yeah. That's a good, no, that's true. That is true. Great. Hmm.

Leo Laporte (01:05:04):
Okay. That's it's intriguing.

Paul Thurrott (01:05:05):
It is. Thanks Mary Jo,

Leo Laporte (01:05:07):
You threw,

Mary Jo (01:05:08):
I gave me one more thing to worry about

Leo Laporte (01:05:09):
Boom, little grenade out there. Boom.

Paul Thurrott (01:05:14):
Yeah. Great.

Leo Laporte (01:05:16):
It does feel like they need to do something that it's, that

Mary Jo (01:05:19):
It's I, I feel like, cause they've gotten out like it's outta hands right now. It's kind

Paul Thurrott (01:05:22):
It's it's ridiculous. It's not,

Mary Jo (01:05:24):
It's ridiculous. Right? Yep. It's not working. Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:05:27):
It's not working at all because you know, all these changes they make are alienating people and these are the people, you know, you don't want to alienate there. The enthusiast. Yeah. You know, I, I, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Mary Jo (01:05:41):
Yeah. All right. Anyway, that's my little, that's speculative. Fascinating

Leo Laporte (01:05:47):
For the day concept. Put a pin in it. We'll get back to you.

Mary Jo (01:05:51):
Pinterest. Well, <laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:05:55):
Meanwhile, put

Paul Thurrott (01:05:55):
A P put a P in into it and yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:05:58):
You don't need a P interest because you've got one drive.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:02):
Well, actually this supports what Mary Jo just said, you were talking about some kind of a creators, something, some whatever it was mm-hmm <affirmative> Microsoft is in Australia for some reason testing a feature for one drive called photo story. Not to be confused with the photo story from almost 20 years ago, which was a Microsoft application that would allow you, if they remember photos and kind of make a, a movie out of it, basically with, you know, Ken burns effects and stuff like that. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But this is a way for people to share Microsoft's memories, I'll call them photos <laugh> and videos from one drive with people who follow you. It's a social media thing is what it is. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So in other words, you're basically creating a feed that you can share with others and then they can follow you.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:46):
So I have to be honest, I, I could see this being useful. I don't think it's gonna succeed, but I will say that. So for example, we have a, a smart display out in our kitchen. It's a, it's from Lenovo, but it's Google based. And so I have a Google photos based what is it like a playlist or whatever that I created, where I only wanted to show photos from people in my family. And, and then it wrote, you know, so it's, and it's incredible. And so when my wife and daughter were in Mexico last week, those pictures started making their way into the photo, you know, so I could see them from in the kitchen. I thought it was really kind of cool. But if you think, if you kind of take it a step further, maybe I, you know, I have people like my mother or my father and I, you know, I maybe want to be able to share these things with them.

Paul Thurrott (01:07:34):
These aren't people are gonna be on like Facebook, you know, or whatever. Right, right. Is there some way I could send email them a link that is like, here's how you can see what we're doing? You know, that kind of thing. Maybe they have a photo frame or I, I probably have to set that up for them or something, but this is why I don't think it's gonna work. I, I, I don't think Microsoft has enough kind of pull in this area because you, what you don't want is someone have to bring up a, a laptop or something. I guess you could do it on a phone or an iPad or something. But I, I, I, I like the idea of it. I don't think it's necessary and I don't think it's gonna be a big thing, but they're testing it now. It's basically a feed that you can create and share with others.

Paul Thurrott (01:08:13):
People can see your photos and videos. Obviously you share it with people, you know, and, and care about and all that kind of stuff. It, it's only available in Australia. So there's no way for most of us to test it at this point. But but yeah, this is yet another thing, like you were just saying, like, this is kind of a random, I, I, I don't remember anytime where one drive was testing a feature with a certain audience in early access. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that's what this is. It's like yet another little test out in the world. So that's kind of interesting. So

Mary Jo (01:08:42):
Remember, last week they announced this feature, an edge that we were talking about where it turns edge, there's like an ability to have like a Pinterest kind of feet. I just said Pinterest. Yep. Yeah. Pinterest. Yep. <Laugh> oh, like P Pinterest.

Paul Thurrott (01:08:55):
Yeah. Pinterest. It's like

Mary Jo (01:08:56):
Pinterest <laugh>. Yep. And to that, see what happens and yeah. And, and the idea is maybe this will feed into that. Also follow people. Like, you know, if there are people who add streams and they, they suggested like on TikTok or Billy, Billy, whatever that is and things like that. But what if they add one drive to that? Right? Like you could follow somebody on one drive who has a stream of stuff and they add that to edge. Right? Yeah. Maybe it's connected somehow. Yep. I

Paul Thurrott (01:09:24):
Don't know. Absolutely. Yeah. And that would be a fr yeah. So if someone, I mean, it's probably be on desktop, but someone with a Mac or PC could open that feature and see their family's photos or something like that's, that's okay. It's not, it's, you know, it's a tough one because the logical place to put something like that and windows would be in like the photos app, but the reality is most people probably spend all the time in the browser and that gets into that situation. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> how come they're throwing, you know, so many extra features of edge, but yeah, here we are. So yeah, no, that's interesting. Maybe could be, could

Mary Jo (01:09:58):
Be, could be

Leo Laporte (01:10:01):
Got thinking Javier Sotero. Yep. So he left Microsoft kind of with a, a lot of attention going to Google couple years ago. What is he in the

Paul Thurrott (01:10:13):
Now remember actually, this ties back to somebody who said earlier, too, he created, well co-created a Comly, which is the product they sold. Well, they sold the company in Microsoft. That's what became outlook mobile. The thing we were talking about earlier, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so before he left Microsoft, he was running Microsoft's outlook business until he was put in charge of Cortana. And you won't be surprised to discover that was his career under right there. <Laugh> so he left, he was supposedly was gonna go off and do entrepreneurial activities, I think was the way he said it. But he very quickly joined Google about two and a half years ago ran G suite, which became workspace. And he has been in that position ever since, although he got additional responsibilities tied to Google's communication products, which I assume was Hangouts, you know, meet all that kind of stuff, which like Cortana is a disaster. But now he's leaving. And once again, he's like, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm gonna go do entrepreneur thing. So he's probably gonna end up at Amazon <laugh> you know, whatever. Yeah. 

Mary Jo (01:11:13):
I bet I bet Microsoft is super relieved that he is leaving, right. Like, because yeah. Was he a threat? So he was kind of a threat to them at this. He came to Google and he like energized workspace. I feel like he, he started doing everything Microsoft is doing right.

Paul Thurrott (01:11:30):
There were two, there were two sides to him at Google. I, I will say that workspace evolved very rapidly under him, but he was also the master of exaggeration. So he would talk about workspace, EMS, and he would include all the free Gmail accounts. So it make look like it was a huge audit, huge customer base. I mean, their, their slice of that market for paying customers is tiny. And it's probably not like single digit tiny, but it's pretty close. Like it's, it's not, they don't, they don't compete very evenly with 

Mary Jo (01:12:00):
Microsoft. Right. He learned all that at Microsoft. He learned using percentages instead of

Paul Thurrott (01:12:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Mary Jo (01:12:06):

Paul Thurrott (01:12:09):
Right, right. Sure. Right, right, right. Marketing 1 0 1 lying

Mary Jo (01:12:11):
Grew 55% with numbers of some number we won't tell you. Right. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:16):
Right. That's right. That's right.

Mary Jo (01:12:18):
Yeah. No, I felt like when he went

Paul Thurrott (01:12:19):
To Google,

Mary Jo (01:12:20):
I'm curious, suddenly it was like Google workspace got a kick. Like, because every single thing that he had done at Microsoft, he started doing it at Google and I'm like, Ooh, he is like a true threat to these guys. Cause he knows where the weaknesses are in office and he can go after this. And so I I'm sure they were kinda like, oh no, this guy. And then it was like, oh wait, now he is leaving again. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:41):
I mean, I, Google could almost play the waiting game in some ways, because I feel like their biggest strength in this market is with new businesses, like really small

Mary Jo (01:12:51):
Businesses, small businesses just starting up.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:53):
Yep. Students. Yeah. And I think I, I that's where you're gonna get that's where the future is, if that makes sense. Right. So obviously the fortune 500 is all Microsoft, but you <affirmative>, you know, they might not always be the fortune 500 <laugh>

Mary Jo (01:13:07):
You know, so, and Mike Microsoft's weakest spot in this market is small businesses. It really is.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:12):
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Well, this was at the start of the pandemic. I don't remember the details. Remember they completely flubbed. They, they dropped their small business push. Right. As the pandemic started to focus on the, you know, the, well, we call it hybrid work now, but yeah, because they, everyone, everything was changing and they needed to support that stuff. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and I heard from employees at the time who were working on this stuff that were freaking out because they were in some cases just days or weeks away from shipping new products. And they were like, yep. Forget it. We're not doing it anymore. Like those customers don't pay enough. We're going to the big guys.

Mary Jo (01:13:45):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:47):
So yeah, no, that's, it's interesting. And, and anyway, I'm, I'm curious to see where he ends up and I, it wouldn't surprise me. It's gonna be a big company and not this entrepreneurial. I'm gonna build a little product myself, you know, kind of thing.

Mary Jo (01:14:00):
Or him Miguel, he, Miguel Dex, Casa get together and they're like, let's yes. Let's really throw some grenades. Wanna talk about grenades, let's throw some grenades

Paul Thurrott (01:14:08):
And wanna talk about people who are independent and know what all the problems are. Right. Yeah. And know where to hit. Yeah, for sure. Yep. We'll see.

Mary Jo (01:14:19):
And then they add Jeffrey, snow and stir

Paul Thurrott (01:14:22):
The, oh yeah, there it is. The, the holy Trinity,

Mary Jo (01:14:26):

Leo Laporte (01:14:26):

Paul Thurrott (01:14:26):

Mary Jo (01:14:27):
Perfect. Yeah. Leo, you didn't hear last week, but Jeffrey, snow, the father of parashell he quit Microsoft. He's gone. So yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:14:36):
He's gone. So was Leo apparently so, but yeah, he 

Leo Laporte (01:14:39):
So hold on a second. We have a little crisis in the studio. I'm I

Mary Jo (01:14:42):
Have uhoh uhoh

Leo Laporte (01:14:44):
Have a water leak in here.

Mary Jo (01:14:45):
Oh, oh no. And 

Leo Laporte (01:14:48):
I think they're holding a tub. I heard this kind of dripping. Oh yeah. Sound and they're holding a tub. Jerry's gonna just stay there. Jerry. Don't move.

Mary Jo (01:14:58):
That is never good.

Leo Laporte (01:14:59):
It's dripping on a lot of electronics. So what I'm gonna do is we're gonna shut down and moving the other studio. Should I keep the stream going? Yes. Okay. Take care of it, John. I'll I'll move. So back down your computer, hang on. You guys, I'm releasing the Skype to you, John, and we'll, we'll just resume in the other yikes studio.

Paul Thurrott (01:15:18):

Leo Laporte (01:15:21):
Okay. Well 

Mary Jo (01:15:23):

Paul Thurrott (01:15:24):
In less important news.

Leo Laporte (01:15:26):
Let's get back to windows leaky. I mean, weekly <laugh> there you go. Wow. All right. So we are in a new studio because the old studio is going to hell <laugh>

Mary Jo (01:15:37):
Pretty much.

Leo Laporte (01:15:38):
Did we finish the Javier Sotero story? I think we did. We did. Yes, we did. Let's talk about, and I am desperate to get I know Denise Hall or somebody on cuz this is,

Paul Thurrott (01:15:48):
I need more details.

Leo Laporte (01:15:49):
This is a big deal. The EU yesterday, ratified two giant bills to re big tech the digital services act and the digital markets act particularly aimed, I think at, at, at Google and maybe apple and apple,

Paul Thurrott (01:16:08):

Leo Laporte (01:16:09):
Amazon. But I think there maybe some impact on Microsoft.

Paul Thurrott (01:16:14):
That's the question. Yeah. So the digital services act is for digital service providers, social media, et cetera. So that's kind of the less interesting one from our perspective, just if you care about Microsoft, but it's going after, you know, content moderation countering legal content online, doing so quickly, being more transparent, blah, blah, blah. You know, getting, not using dark patterns for advertising and that kind of thing, but the digital markets act, this is the more interesting one to me. It's, it's targeting online platforms that act as gatekeepers. And I think we could agree, you know, we think of gatekeepers, apple as a gatekeeper on its platform as Google is obviously a gatekeeper on the internet, Microsoft as a gatekeeper in, in some ways as well in their own world. And they, they didn't mention this well, at least I didn't catch it.

Paul Thurrott (01:17:04):
If they did platform makers with 45 million or more monthly active users will have stricter regulations for the DSA. I'm curious if this is gonna be the case with the DMA because Microsoft absolutely has more, more customers than that. That's actually a pretty low bar. But anyway, the point of this is it will require these gatekeepers to open up their services to third parties, to give users more choice, allow users to access their own data generated on the gate PLA gatekeepers platforms, which I most actually probably do already. And prevent, this is the big one prevent platform makers from favoring their own services over those of rivals or partners. This is what Microsoft is doing in windows 11 with Microsoft edge. And the integration of service is from MSN and Bing, right? So you go and you, everyone celebrated, oh, the default browser thing, they added the button back. It's fixed. No it's not fixed. That only changes a couple of file associations and protocol handlers. It doesn't change things that happen in other parts of the operating system. Like if you do a, a search off a start and you go tore result, edge opens. If you click on something in widgets edge opens, it doesn't matter what browsers you chose. So that's a classic example of a platform maker, favoring your own services. Over those of third

Leo Laporte (01:18:17):
Parties, it's also

Paul Thurrott (01:18:18):

Leo Laporte (01:18:19):
Right as a, is another issue. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:21):
Yeah. This I'm yeah. This more apple

Leo Laporte (01:18:23):
And Google are really gonna have to figure out what to do now. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:27):
Look, apple and Google know they're gonna fight tooth and nail, but they, those stores are changing. Yeah. They just aren't gonna change. There's no, there's

Leo Laporte (01:18:34):
No way around it. It's a huge thing. I mean, this is kind of parallels laws that our Congress is considering, but of course <laugh> well, nothing will ever happen there, but yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:46):
Also nothing. So the problem with the,

Leo Laporte (01:18:48):
Go ahead, Mary,

Mary Jo (01:18:49):
How do you enforce this? How do you guys, how do they enforce this?

Leo Laporte (01:18:52):
Well that's so that's the interesting thing, first of all. Oh, I can,

Paul Thurrott (01:18:55):
I can answer that.

Leo Laporte (01:18:56):
They're 10% of global revenue. Yeah. As much as, but, but they also, the Reuters said they weren't providing sufficient funds for enforcement. Right. So, and then the other thing is that the, all the, the, the big companies that are affected by this, and by the way, the social media networks have to be 45 million plus. So, you know, it only affects TWITtter and may, maybe barely TWITtter and Facebook, but those companies can afford to litigate and slow it down. So it's

Paul Thurrott (01:19:27):
The little, and there is no legal process, more slow than that, of the U. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:19:31):

Paul Thurrott (01:19:32):
Could be years they, these companies will, yeah. It could be decades <laugh>, you know,

Mary Jo (01:19:37):
And you know what, I forget, I forget where I read this argument also. But like some people said some, the big companies will just pay the fine yes. Like that, like they don't

Leo Laporte (01:19:47):
Care. No. If it's 10% of global revenue. No,

Mary Jo (01:19:50):
No. If it's 10% of global revenue. No, but if it's some other fine, right.

Leo Laporte (01:19:55):
I think you have to look at GDPR, which companies paid attention to and responded. They did. They fought it. Yeah. But it had a similar penalty structure was very, very expensive or couldn't be very expensive. And I think companies took it seriously. And of course, whatever companies have to do in the EU, they have to do everywhere because you know, it's, that's becomes, that's what we're market for here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. So I think this is huge story, but I, but yeah. We need to get experts in the EU and EU law. Right. To really know, you know what, because I, I think you still have to have the individual nations have to make their own regulations. I mean, it's, yeah. It's very complicated. How the EU yeah. Does

Paul Thurrott (01:20:36):
All this. Oh, it take, yeah. These take place years in the future as well, depend their different schedules for each of them. I think the earliest we're gonna see any of this take place is next year. Right. And one of them is 20, 24 and it's yeah. Everything happens slowly there. This is the,

Leo Laporte (01:20:52):
But it's happening

Paul Thurrott (01:20:52):
The reality, but

Leo Laporte (01:20:54):

Paul Thurrott (01:20:55):
Yeah. And this is gonna be part of the regulatory piling on that's gonna occur to all these companies that will force them to change their way. So it will, we'll see what happens. I mean, there's no way to, you know, know for sure, but I think we're gonna see real change, especially with mobile app stars.

Leo Laporte (01:21:10):
Yeah. I mean, if, if GDPR is any indication, companies do have to pay attention to this, they do have to do something about it.

Mary Jo (01:21:16):
Hopefully the fix won't be as horrible as GDPR has been in terms of user experience.

Leo Laporte (01:21:22):
<Laugh> well, yeah. I mean, GDP is a mixed bag. I think there have been some benefits. 

Mary Jo (01:21:29):
Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like for the average consumers, like all you see is cookies. Like, do you accept all cookies, blah, blah, blah. Right? Like you're like, Ugh. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:21:38):
<Laugh> yeah. That's a, that's a separate regulation, which is a complete waste of time. That cookie thing, that's, that's a good example of how regulation can completely go wrong and achieve the opposite of what it's trying to achieve.

Mary Jo (01:21:50):

Paul Thurrott (01:21:51):
Oh, it's just, you almost don't want to get a Europe and browse the web <laugh>, you

Leo Laporte (01:21:55):
Know, just

Paul Thurrott (01:21:56):
It's the so terrible. It's like the stupidest thing, but it's just it's yeah. It's horrible.

Leo Laporte (01:22:03):
Yeah. Okay. I hate to say it, but I think it's time for Xbox

Paul Thurrott (01:22:10):
Paul. I love to say it.

Leo Laporte (01:22:12):
I love to say it.

Paul Thurrott (01:22:13):
So it's a little later than usual. I'm I'm gonna assume they're gonna they'll blame the three day holiday we just had here in the United States, but Microsoft just this week announced the first games that are coming to Xbox game pass during the first half of July through. So through July 14th, I feel like I've said this a lot. I, I don't see a lot here that I even recognize, honestly, there's a couple of Yakuza games. Last call BBI,

Leo Laporte (01:22:39):
Wait a minute. Pep. Pig's

Paul Thurrott (01:22:40):
A weird collection

Leo Laporte (01:22:41):
Of metals, you know, pep pig.

Paul Thurrott (01:22:42):
I know <laugh> paw patrol the movie that might, I mean, paw patrol the movie, the game, I guess. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:22:48):
It's kind of the opposite ends of the spectrum, the Yakuza and paw patrol, kind of the, you know,

Paul Thurrott (01:22:53):
So I don't know if you pay attention to this part of the market, but there's, there are these simulation games that are there seems like they're just something for everything. So like train simulator, that's something I could picture. Yeah. You know, doing like, I love trans obviously flight simulator. There's like farming simulator. There's a gr there's a, like a, I know what it's called, but it's basically a mowing the lawn simulator, like seriously. One of the games that's coming to game pass is power wash simulator. Ah,

Leo Laporte (01:23:21):
No, that's fun.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:22):
Exactly what you think it is. You get power wash items. I, I know, I don't know what happened to gaming, but this is where we're

Leo Laporte (01:23:30):
At. You also get the, the final Zonic game, last call BBS which is kind of interesting. That's brand new. Yeah, that's kind of an interesting story. ZR makes these amazing kind of interesting puzzle games. They're not, yeah. Not call of duty, but not

Paul Thurrott (01:23:49):
Like if, if Infocom was still around

Leo Laporte (01:23:52):
Sorta. Yeah. In fact, that's the whole idea. Last call BBS is that these are old BBS games that are left, lying around and you can play them. And

Paul Thurrott (01:23:59):
That's that one's PC only interesting.

Leo Laporte (01:24:02):
Yeah. Interesting. Didn't they say that they're not gonna do any more Xbox 360 games on.

Paul Thurrott (01:24:08):
Yeah. So that's right. So that this announcement is a long time coming. I've been wondering about this the way they worded it. It's a little confusing because it almost seems like existing Xbox tree, 60 titles that you got through games with gold are gonna disappear. That's not the case. So as people probably know every month, those who have an Xbox live gold subscription or an Xbox game pass, I wish Xbox game pass of any kind right. Of gain kind or is no, I think it's Xbox game pass. Ultimate. I always forget. There's so many, it's confusing all these subscriptions, but you among the perks that you get, you get four free games through games with gold, they're free, but they're not forever free. They're free for as long as you have your subscription, right? So you can download them. They're in into your library. You just add them to your library.

Paul Thurrott (01:24:55):
You don't have to download whatever you wanna do. You get these games every month. And every month we talk about them, right? To date, those games have been two Xbox, 360 titles. And two, I'm gonna call 'em two Xbox, one titles. Although there's a weird blurring in the line, say with Xbox one and Xbox series X and S because some Xbox titles are kind of for both of those things and you get the better version if you have the better console. So it's not really clear. I'll just call 'em Xbox one games to make it simple. Xbox 360. This thing is getting a little lung in the tooth. So Microsoft is going to stop providing Xbox 360 games through games with gold, starting in October. And the reason they said was not because they're getting along in the tooth, but because they're running outta games, they've been giving away so many free games and they've pretty much exhausted what they can give away.

Paul Thurrott (01:25:43):
And and now what we're gonna get is only Xbox one games. So if you downloaded slash own any of those games through games with gold over the years, it doesn't matter when you got them. As long as your subscription has remained valid or, you know enabled you'll. That will continue past October. You're not gonna lose the games. We're not gonna, we're not gonna get rid of those games. I'm curious, I've, I've been waiting for this day. I've been, I'm wondering when this was gonna happen, but I'm curious now, I, I thought we would go to a system where it was Xbox one and Xbox series X and S games. And I'm, I'm guessing the issue there is, we just don't have enough of the newer games. And maybe those guys that, that the game publishers don't want to be part of this program yet, but I would think somewhere down the, the line, we'll start seeing that as well, but Hmm. Yeah. So it's happening finally, but yeah, it took a long

Leo Laporte (01:26:34):
Time. I mean, Xbox 360 is how old, I mean, that's,

Paul Thurrott (01:26:38):
Yeah, it came out in 2005 and the Xbox one came out when in 2013. So, I mean, Xbox one is closing in on a 10 years old. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:26:47):
Yeah. You know, it's yeah. It's those, these are older games and, and actually, I think I could be wrong, but I think every once in a while, there might have been an OG Xbox game in there too.

Leo Laporte (01:26:56):
But do you ever play any of the Xbox 360 titles? I mean, it's more like a, just, just a memory laying thing, you know, just a

Paul Thurrott (01:27:02):
Yep. Yeah. So every once in a while I will, I will, I'll go back to the original call of duties especially the mono warfare games, the, for the original trilogy and, and do play those multiplayer online. And that, that is, I've talked about how some of those games are as clear in my brain as real locations in places that I know really well. Like I, because I've spent so much time there, if you will,

Leo Laporte (01:27:25):
Man, it's really weird. Yeah. Of that alley behind the bar,

Paul Thurrott (01:27:28):
You know, there's a guy hiding in that exact spot. And even though it's 10 years later, there he is still there, like is it's incredible. Yeah. It's incredible. 

Leo Laporte (01:27:38):
That's pretty

Paul Thurrott (01:27:39):
Funny. Yeah. So that's about it, but yeah, this there's good stuff in there for sure.

Leo Laporte (01:27:44):
The X cloud expands Xbox cloud gaming to Samsung TVs.

Paul Thurrott (01:27:51):
Yeah. So Samsung just rolled out an app for their 20 20, 22, 20 20, 20 22 <laugh>. So for its 2022 smart TVs this week and it's called gaming hub. And what this will do is it integrates with various cloud streaming, like cloud GA hello, game cloud streaming services upfront at it supports Xbox cloud gaming, which is part of Xbox game pass ultimate Google stadia and video G force now and UTO and Amazon Luna is coming soon. Hmm. And so the, the only issue with this is, you know, smart TVs kind of stink as far as apps go, it will be fine for a little while because they're new, you know eventually these things will get gummed up and hopefully over time, what will happen is we'll have better ways to access these apps on TVs, whether it's from some Microsoft, you know, whatever. And the other issue of course, is that if you have a 20, 21 or older Samsung smart TV or smart TV from any other company this doesn't exist yet. So thanks Nick to see more of this, but any expansion of where you can play Xbox cloud gaming is a good thing, for sure. So,

Leo Laporte (01:29:00):
I mean, obviously it doesn't matter how fast the TV is, all the work is done on the server, so right.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:06):
Well, there are other issues, right. There's connectivity with the controller. Right. And what that latency looks like. Right. I would assume,

Leo Laporte (01:29:13):
Say to like, Google gives you that, you know, direct connect controller, so you have better right. Better.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:19):
Yep. And I think Luna does something similar about

Leo Laporte (01:29:21):
The way yes. Luna does do that. Yes.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:23):
Yeah. And Microsoft doesn't <laugh> so the Microsoft experience has gotten better over time. For sure. I don't think it's as good as stadia or Luna, frankly, but we'll have to see what it's like on these different types of clients. I assume. There's not like there's no Xbox chip set built into this. So you, I don't think you're gonna be Bluetoothing your controller into the TV, but maybe I'm wrong. I mean, maybe, maybe that is, I don't actually don't know how that will work. I assume it would work with a USB cable, which would be frankly, a better experience if you don't mind the cable. Yeah. From a latency perspective,

Leo Laporte (01:29:57):
But the idea these Luna and stadia controllers is they're, they're connected to the wifi and they have a direct connection to the server, the same connection that your TV does instead

Paul Thurrott (01:30:06):
Of going, you can really feel the difference by the way. Can you, it really? Oh yeah. Luna. I just bought the

Leo Laporte (01:30:10):
Luna controller and I just never got around to playing any games. So I should try it.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:16):
I played far cry. I wanna say, I think it was far cry. Five. I can,

Leo Laporte (01:30:21):
I'm just biased. I feel like I, if I could play it on the PC, I should play it on the PC.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:25):
Yeah. But I'd like to see what it's like. I mean, it's interesting to be able to compare games the same game on different services and kind of feel, you know, see how they change or how they work on each one. Yeah. But yeah, I Lu and stadia both, I think have the best, I dunno what you wanna call latency, performance, whatever.

Leo Laporte (01:30:43):
I'll have to give them a try.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:45):
Yeah. Just playing a PC

Leo Laporte (01:30:47):
Or playing PC. Well, I have a 55 inch PC screens. Yeah. All, yeah, there you go. So it's as good as ATV in the house. So I'm there's no, I can understand if you're playing a 24 inch computer, what you like

Paul Thurrott (01:30:58):
Playing? Where do you sit to play this game? You right in

Leo Laporte (01:31:00):
Front of it as close as possible. Really?

Paul Thurrott (01:31:02):
Yeah. It's like watching a tennis match. You have to be like, like looking around

Leo Laporte (01:31:05):
It's immersive. It's actually what killed the steam deck for me cuz you know, it's a little handheld and the screen. So playing Vahe, isn't it like? Yeah. Going from Volheim on, on the big screen <laugh> to this little thing, it's like weird. I can't do it. I can't do it. I spoiled a little bit. Quite a bit actually.

Paul Thurrott (01:31:23):
Right, right.

Leo Laporte (01:31:24):
How's the office Burke. It's a little dirty. It's a little dirty. Oh you found my phone. Is it wet? No, no. I put it away. Oh thank you. Hey good thinking. Covering it all with vis queen. That was a good idea. Take a break. Come back with the soggy back of the book. I think we saved. Oh God. Nice. I think we saved the back of there's the ZD TV blanket. <Laugh> sucking up. This is oh Lordy, Lordy, my hat collection. Our show today brought to you by Tanium. You can't protect against some threats like the AC leaking into your office, but you really should protect against cyber attack. The industry's approach to cyber security is, as it turns out, fundamentally flawed it management security point tools only offer a small piece of the solution needed to protect your environment. And many of them promise they can stop all breaches when they just can't.

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Leo Laporte (01:34:11):
Data comes real time impact. If you're ready to unite operations and security teams with a single source of truth and confidently protect your organizations from cyber threats, it's time, yame Tanium to learn more. Visit Tanium T a N I U M Thank you, Tanium for your support for windows weekly. And thank you, windows weekly listeners and viewers for supporting us. By going to that address, I know, you know, you're smart. You could go to, but please add the slash TWIT. So they see it and they go, oh, they must have been watching windows weekly, Let's see your best way to protect yourself. All right. Back of the book, time we go back. Yes. To Paul throt and the tip of week. Yes. A

Paul Thurrott (01:34:59):
Couple of quick facts. I just got via email about Alaska. Yes. Where we're going next week.

Leo Laporte (01:35:05):

Paul Thurrott (01:35:05):
If cut in half, it would still be the biggest and second biggest states in the country.

Leo Laporte (01:35:09):
<Laugh> it's that big? Wow. It's that big?

Paul Thurrott (01:35:13):
Superposed over the United States of the AR continental us, the Arctic region would cover most of the Midwest and the Southern panhandle would be in Florida.

Leo Laporte (01:35:21):
Wow. Wow.

Paul Thurrott (01:35:22):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and because of the what is this? Blah, blah, where is this? Where is this the of, oh, it's because of the hundred and 80th Meridian. Yeah. The Northern most Eastern most and westernmost points in the United States are all in Alaska.

Leo Laporte (01:35:38):
Wait a minute. Say that again. Everything but the Southern most,

Paul Thurrott (01:35:41):
That one didn't make sense to you. Holy

Leo Laporte (01:35:43):

Paul Thurrott (01:35:44):
Northern most Eastern most and Western most points of the United States are all found in Alaska because of its location in relation to the 180th Meridian.

Leo Laporte (01:35:54):
Of course, we're not gonna see all of Alaska. We're just gonna, no, that's, we're just gonna see a little bit of it.

Paul Thurrott (01:35:59):
But so only 700,000 people live in Alaska.

Leo Laporte (01:36:03):

Paul Thurrott (01:36:03):
700,000. There are 23 million people in the metropolitan Mexico city area alone. <Laugh> 700,000 people in the entire state of

Leo Laporte (01:36:12):
Alaska. This will be like the going to the country for you. This will be very relaxed.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:16):
It is the least densely populated state in the United States.

Leo Laporte (01:36:19):
Nice. Wow. Is that really?

Paul Thurrott (01:36:21):

Leo Laporte (01:36:21):
Yep. And, and you're gonna, I think you're gonna really love it cuz the history is fascinating. We're gonna have a good time and we got, we're going great bunch of people.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:32):
The seal to people ratio is out control

Leo Laporte (01:36:35):
Outta control. <Laugh> lots of seals. <Laugh> you picked your you've picked your excursions. I I presume I

Paul Thurrott (01:36:42):
Do. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:36:43):
Yes. I don't. I don't. I

Paul Thurrott (01:36:44):

Leo Laporte (01:36:45):
Remember. Yeah. I don't know if we're gonna be on the same same. I know excursions. I think

Paul Thurrott (01:36:50):
There's gotta be at least one. I think there's at least one.

Leo Laporte (01:36:52):
We I could tell you what we're gonna do. We are gonna go on the dog sled summer camp expedition in June. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:59):
I'm definitely not doing that one.

Leo Laporte (01:37:00):
<Laugh> then we're gonna get icy straight point Alaska. I thought that sounds very inviting. Let's go to the beach. We'll be biking and hiking and exploring the beach in icy straight point. And then Sitka. The best of Sitka. They canceled our our visit in, in Victoria, British Columbia. Cuz I think oh, only there briefly. Yeah. They canceled that excursion. So

Paul Thurrott (01:37:21):
Lemme ask you about that because that was the reason we needed a passport. Yeah. Do we need

Leo Laporte (01:37:26):
A passport? Yeah, because of one of the get ready. One of the laws of the sea. Oh yes. Is Cabo Tage

Paul Thurrott (01:37:35):
<Laugh> sure,

Leo Laporte (01:37:37):
Sure. And Cabo governs the transportation of goods and people between two ports of the United States. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it restricts. You have to visit a foreign port basically if you were not us flagged. Okay. And so you couldn't just go to American ports. So they stick in Victoria for a couple of hours.

Paul Thurrott (01:37:55):
Yep. Yep. Just to get that out

Leo Laporte (01:37:57):
Of it's the Jones act. Thank the Jones act. So yeah, so that way we can do that.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:02):
So my 

Leo Laporte (01:38:03):
But we're not gonna get

Paul Thurrott (01:38:04):
Off expires in November. No, no. It's not a problem. Expires in November. So my wife was begging me to get this thing expedited before this trip and I'm like there's no, they're not. Canada is not gonna deny me entry for two hours because it expires four months later. It's not gonna be an issue.

Leo Laporte (01:38:22):
Mary Jo, you may be hosting the show for some time to come I'm

Mary Jo (01:38:26):
I agree. I've had nothing but trouble going to Canada.

Leo Laporte (01:38:29):
My suggestion Paul is you don't get off the boat.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:33):
Oh, I'm definitely. I'm not getting off. Well, I guess it sounds like no one's getting off the boat

Leo Laporte (01:38:36):
So well you could, I mean you can walk around, but yeah, we don't have much time in in

Paul Thurrott (01:38:39):
Victoria. Yeah. I'm not gonna get off

Leo Laporte (01:38:40):
The boat, but I do hope that you will join me. As we hike historic ke Aika because I'm bringing the drone and I want to get a picture of you and me on married. Men's married. Men's trail in beautiful downtown catch can. Wow. We can take the vernacular tram up

Paul Thurrott (01:38:58):
There. Oh my, I will. This will be at least my fifth vernacular. I like vernaculars

Leo Laporte (01:39:03):
Funicular. Fanna

Paul Thurrott (01:39:04):
I'm a funicular fanatically though. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:39:07):
I think that's gonna be fun.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:08):
I love trains of all kinds.

Leo Laporte (01:39:09):
Yeah. Ke can is very walkable. You're right down there. When the D unusually the boat docks downtown mm-hmm <affirmative> so you'll be able to just get off and walk right into town. Yeah. Okay. Lot of fun. And if you want, you could stop at the great Alaskan lumberjack show.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:25):
<Laugh> I can't say that I'm gonna want to do that.

Leo Laporte (01:39:27):
But the Mary men's trail though, does lead to the salmon ladder, which is always fun. And this time is here. I think there will be salmon ladder salmon going upstream. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (01:39:36):
You're talking about like a, like a water. Yes. Like you're jumping up the stream. Oh, that would be interesting.

Leo Laporte (01:39:40):
They come in. You've

Mary Jo (01:39:40):
Never seen it. It's super

Leo Laporte (01:39:41):
Cool. It's wild. And usually that's where the bears hang out. So that'll be good too. Yes.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:46):
Okay. Good. Good. Okay. That would be interesting. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:39:49):
We got stuff to do. And then we talk about windows. It's gonna be ran. That

Paul Thurrott (01:39:54):
That will happen

Leo Laporte (01:39:54):
Too. So there we go. There's your Alaska fact of the week from <inaudible> and our listeners now a tip of the week.

Paul Thurrott (01:40:03):
Yep. I wonder, oh boy. I'm not gonna be, I'm gonna have to free will on one of these. All right. So last week 3 43 announced that they will soon be launching, not gonna read this, cuz it's so complicated. The halo infinite network campaign. Co-Op beta. Whoa. As Leo will remember fondly almost two years ago, we watched live

Leo Laporte (01:40:25):
Events. It's so much fun.

Paul Thurrott (01:40:26):
<Laugh> and they were showing halo. Infinite was gonna come out in 2020 and it was garbage. Yeah. And I remember I said at the time, this is gonna be like the wizard of Oz. What they're showing is how it used to look and then it's gonna do the change. Be awesome. Yeah. It never changed. It never changed. Hmm. So they were like, you know what, actually we're not gonna be ready in time for the holiday season. We, we need one more year. So they took a year, they delivered halo infinite a year late. Doesn't include a bunch of things. Doesn't include like the forged multiplayer map, editing feature. Does it include co-op of any kind? So they're like, oh, we'll add it later. We'll add it later. So here we are. It's two years later, <laugh> they're gonna have a beta, but it's only for network.

Paul Thurrott (01:41:07):
So we gotta be very specific about this network campaign. Co-Op beta. What that means is you can't sit there together and play co-op. You have to play it over a network. You have to all be on different devices. Oh. It's like the land, the old land party thing. Well, it can be over the internet too. Oh yeah. So you could do it over land for sure. Yeah. No, it could do both ways, but but you can't be like, you know, you can't do split screen on one screen. Like that's not, it's not, that kind probably is never gonna happen. Yeah. No it's it's not golden. Inized beginning. They were saying. Yeah, probably no, no. It's it's not gonna happen. Nobody. The good news is it's available. Yeah, that's true. I mean, everyone wants their own screen, but you can do it on console.

Paul Thurrott (01:41:48):
You can do it on PC. You have to be registered via steam to do it on PC, which is like, whatever. But so <laugh>, there's different rule or different ways to get into the system. You have to be part of the halo insider program. And I think there's additional things you have to do on on the PC. You have to opt in for keen communications. You have to opt in for flighting on the PC. You have to connect to your personal steam account. You have to upload a DX dialogue info and good luck to you all. But anyway, this thing is actually gonna start pretty soon, starting on July 11th, it's gonna run through July 22nd. You can <laugh> that's the other thing. Hope you finish the campaign, because when you do this, you're starting over, it, it can't work with existing campaign plays.

Paul Thurrott (01:42:30):
You have to start from scratch. Hmm. And I think you pretty much have to download the campaign again for this to happen. And I, I assume the goal is to have this thing shipped to the general populace holiday season sometime in the fall, something like that. But this, and I also sort of hope there's gonna be more, <laugh> more BES, more co-ops I don't know, more co-op styles, whatever it is. But anyway, it's finally happening. So our national nightmare is almost over anyway. Leo, you missed this last week, but I was talking about my tip last week was about setting up windows 1122 H two, with a local account, which Microsoft does not allow. And that was based on work. I had done for the book. And this week, my pick is for Rufus, which by the time 22 H two is out will support creating windows 11 installation media that does not require you to sign in with your Microsoft account.

Paul Thurrott (01:43:26):
You can actually have media that does it. You don't have to use a work around. Now, there is an asterisk, and this is important. You can't connect to a network before you do this, right. Be in during setup. So, you know, if you step through windows setup, so you just unplug the E cable, turn off the wifi adapter, it's you? Well, you don't have to turn out. You just can't connect to it. It, you can't connect to a network <laugh> so if, once you connect to a network, you can reboot and it will always remember that you were connected, then this will not work. Wow. If that happens,

Paul Thurrott (01:43:56):
I have workarounds in the book that will get you through it. You can still do it. You don't, but this is kind of an interesting idea because you can create media other than the internet thing, which for some reason, it can't cut around where you don't have to sign it with a Microsoft account, which I know is a big deal. For some people, if you want to try this today, what you're looking for is Rufus 3.19 beta or newer. I would imagine I have tested this on actually only on one PC, but I have tested, it seems to work fine. I mean, there's there's various ways you can take a USB installation media and turn it into an ISO. And then I wanted, what I wanted to do was test it in VMs. I haven't been able to get that to work for some reason, but I think by the time the book is you know, this part of it's done, I will have tested that, but if you want to test it yourself grab Rufus.

Leo Laporte (01:44:44):
So I'm unclear what's going on here. You can create a version of windows that you don't have to log, use a Microsoft to account

Paul Thurrott (01:44:52):
On. Right. So the way, all right, so the, yeah, so let's step back for one second. So if you go back to when windows 11 came out, one of the controversies was, if you, you bought a new computer, had windows 11 home on it, you go through setup for the first time connect to the network. And that says, sign in with your Microsoft account. And you're like, you know, I don't really wanna sign in with my Microsoft account. What else could I do? <Laugh> you know, and nothing, the answer was you had to, Microsoft was enforcing it now with 22 H two, the second version of windows 11. They're also enforcing it with windows love and pro that's getting into, into some weird territory because there are a lot of enthusiasts and power users who want nothing to do with that kind of thing. They want to be able to sign up with the local kind if that's what they want. So there are various workarounds for this. Like I said, I have I guess, well, including the roofs way, I have three workarounds in the book. I tested these things thoroughly.

Leo Laporte (01:45:45):
You know, this is, this is something that the creators of Rufus have in have turned on. Yes, it's a Fe in fact, they can also remove the requirement. It looks like for secure boot and TPM two

Paul Thurrott (01:45:55):
That's right now, that's a, that's another issue I'm gonna sometime in the next month or so I will definitely talk about that topic, but for now the what to know is that when you use Rufus 3.19 or newer to create a windows, you take a windows, 11 ISO and turn it into a install media. It will pop up a dialogue that says, Hey, you, you can turn those requirements off. And then when you use that USB stick to install windows 11 on a newer existing computer, it doesn't matter. Those things will change in set up, right? So there things like it won't auto, okay. Everything in the privacy menu, I think as one of them, it won't look for the TPM and secure boot being present or enabled on your computer, which windows 11 set up today will say, this is this computer's not supported. It doesn't do anything about the other hardware requirements. Like it doesn't bypass processor. It doesn't bypass, you know, Ram storage

Leo Laporte (01:46:49):
Or no, it does. It has a removed requirement for four gig plus Ram and 64 gig plus disk. Sorry. So they're four switching. Sorry. So they're what are they patching the ISO, what do they

Paul Thurrott (01:47:01):
Do? Oh, so look every one, every,

Leo Laporte (01:47:03):
How does Microsoft feel about this?

Paul Thurrott (01:47:05):
Well, here's the thing. So every one of those requirements can be worked around today. All of them. So what it's doing is basically taking whatever that means is it's a, a change in the install files that are on the disc, and it's allowing you to make that change when you create the media. Right? So the other approach is just to use standard media and then use the, whatever the workarounds are. There's various, you bring up a command line window, you run a command. You do,

Leo Laporte (01:47:26):
You have to do a hex edit of the, of the file or

Paul Thurrott (01:47:28):
No, no, no. It's

Leo Laporte (01:47:29):
Not that it's not that complicated.

Paul Thurrott (01:47:30):
They're actually, honestly, none of them are all that complicated. Okay. But they're not discoverable. It's not like anyone you, no one would ever and find these things. I mean,

Leo Laporte (01:47:38):
It, it doesn't, these are not sanctioned by Microsoft. Of course.

Paul Thurrott (01:47:42):
Well, I think this falls into a gray area of sanction, not sanctioned because the truth is Microsoft has Microsoft understands that people are gonna install this thing on unsupported hardware, right. They, they have a system in place to put a watermark on the screen, which by the way, you can also work around and they know that that's gonna happen. So it's, it's not something they want the general public to do, but they understand it is gonna happen. I don't actually,

Leo Laporte (01:48:08):
It's actually the kind of thing an it person might want to do for an entire office or that kind of thing. Yeah. And so maybe they leave that in because they figure enterprise might want to do it. This is great though. You can use Rufus to do this. That's

Paul Thurrott (01:48:22):
Great. Yeah. The tricky thing, I, I, I, I wanted to separate this from the hardware requirement stuff, because there there's additional things to understand if you're going to bypass the hardware requirements. Okay. Because technically at that point you're not supported technically at that point, Microsoft could deny you even security updates in the future. I know either Mary Jo and nor I think they will ever do that, but no, it it's, it's not something normal people should do

Leo Laporte (01:48:44):
Should know what the consequences might be. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:48:48):
Yes. So I guess if, if we're talking about this, you're probably smart enough to say, well, okay, you got me, I'll just install regular windows 11 when that happens, you know, it's probably not as serious as I'm making it sound, but I, I kind of want to separate these things out because if you decide to not sign in with a Microsoft account, nothing bad is ever gonna happen to you ever. But if you decide to bypass any of the hardware requirements, you could have some things to deal with in the future. And it's, to me, those are just two different AR you know, two different 

Leo Laporte (01:49:17):
Topics. Paul, we've been getting clicking from you all day, but it's gotten getting worse, maybe disconnect and reconnecting.

Paul Thurrott (01:49:23):
Well, it's Mary Jo's up. So I'll just I'll come back. Yeah. Okay. You can continue without me. Good.

Leo Laporte (01:49:29):
All, I think I like it that way. And I know Mary there's a bear by the way, at a salmon ladder, John has placed Paul with a bear, which seems quite appropriate. <Laugh> I think that's the same thing. Basically, Paul, the bear <laugh> same thing Rufus, we should mention is free and is, has always been a recommended way to make a, a bootable ISO on a USB stick. But that's a nice feature from Rufus now to the enterprise pick of the week, Mary Jo Foley.

Mary Jo (01:50:02):
Right? So this is kind of a mixed warning plus some advice the information that publication that many people may know last week, they ran a story saying they had some inside sources at Microsoft saying more than two dozen of Microsoft's Azure data centers throughout the world are operating with limited capacity right now. And they won't be able to get more capacity until next year. Wow. So so I guess when I read this, I wasn't surprised because I know during the pandemic, Microsoft was juggling a lot of workloads to try to keep all all things running smoothly on Azure. And they talk very publicly about that. But now that we have the supply, the infamous supply chain crisis, things are getting worse, not better. Right? So if you think about what goes into building a data center, it's, you know, people automatically think there's a shortage of chips.

Mary Jo (01:50:59):
There's a shortage of servers, but you know, what else has a shortage of what basics like power supplies, even concrete, you need all of these things to build data centers, right? And so people are starting to hit limits, like especially brand new customers the way Microsoft does this is they prioritize. So that big, the biggest enterprises and their existing customer base gets first crack at capacity in the cloud. If you're not in those two groups, you may run into hard barriers and quotas and see things not actually work. So I guess this is a warning for people who didn't realize like the cloud is not this infinite amount of servers somewhere up in the sky that will never run out of room. If you still think that these days you should stop thinking that way, because it's just basically data centers that are being run by Microsoft.

Mary Jo (01:51:50):
If they can't build data centers fast enough and get the supplies for them fast enough, there there are going to be capacity limits. So I, I pulled a bunch of people over the past few days and I said, what can people do if you're running into limits? And if you're a brand new customer there isn't a whole lot, you can do, you know, people say, you should make sure you plan way in advance, let Microsoft know what if you're expecting some major spikes and capacity so that they can tell you, yeah, we can meet that demand or no, we cannot. Some people think you should use the newest virtual machines that Microsoft has available because there might be more of those, but then some people also think you should use the older ones because not everyone has the kind of hardware available, even including Microsoft to run these kind of newer virtual machines. So I, I wrote a whole post up about this and said, here's some things you can try to do to head off the capacity limits, but just everyone should be aware that there are limits and Microsoft's first priority is going to be these big enterprise customers because that's where the money is. Right. Hmm. 

Leo Laporte (01:52:56):
So just how long do the words is this gonna go on? You think?

Mary Jo (01:53:00):
So the information heard, like there'll be pretty tough limits in place through early next year, 2023. Wow. nobody's disputing this like because there's really nobody predicting an end to the supply chain crisis, right? Like when, when are we gonna have the end to the supply chain crisis?

Leo Laporte (01:53:18):
It's I know, but it's also an a great increase in demand, right? I mean that's, yes. People are moving to the cloud,

Mary Jo (01:53:25):
Right? Yeah. There's increase in demand and a shortage of stuff to build more data centers quickly. Right. right. So there, these two forces are converging and it's resulting in people running into more and more barriers. I talked to, Paul knows this guy, Aiden fin, a friend of ours who is a Microsoft MVP in the cloud. And he, he actually had a funny quote. He said I didn't think Azure having capacity issues was news.

Leo Laporte (01:53:50):
<Laugh> he's

Mary Jo (01:53:51):
Like, doesn't everybody know that <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:53:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Mary Jo (01:53:55):
I imagine it's kind of like a dirty little secret, right.

Leo Laporte (01:53:57):
<Laugh> I imagine everybody else will be having similar capacity.

Mary Jo (01:54:00):
Yeah. So the information said, yeah, it's not just, obviously it's not just Azure and it's not just Microsoft. It's Google it's AWS. Yeah. Probably Google more than AWS, because the bigger you are, the more, you know, you, you kind have the first pass of getting more components and such, but yeah, it's, it's gonna hit everybody who has clouds and the bigger you are, the better your chances are of being able to be first in line when components become available.

Leo Laporte (01:54:26):
That's one of the things that seems to be often overlooked when we talk about supply chain is part of this is increased demand. It is for everything. It is even baby formula. And so it's not merely that, you know, we can't make enough. It's that more, more, more, and more is demanded. And I guess more and more people are more the cloud. Exactly. What a surprise. Yep. Enterprise pick number two.

Mary Jo (01:54:50):
Yes. So we've we do periodic offers for this book. This is a book that is co-authored by a number of Microsoft MVPs. And the main editor is our friend, Tony Redman, who Paul and I both know the book is called office 365 for it pros. This thing is massive. It's like thousands of pages. Right? And they update it constantly over the web. So if you buy this book, you get all the updates for a full year that they make to the book. As we know, Microsoft is updating all of the servers in their family all the time. So this book covers SharePoint exchange OneDrive for business, Microsoft teams, e-discovery information, protection, compliance, power. If you're an it person and you deal with Microsoft 365, you probably want this book. So the 2023 edition just came out and the Ford is by Jeffrey. Snower our friend who we noted father Parchelle just left Microsoft last week. We have for you listeners, a $10 discount code, thanks to Tony Redman. So you should go to oh 365. It pros dot gum 365. It slash windows weekly. And we'll put this code in the notes. So you can go back and get it. If you want the $10 off for the latest edition of this book,

Leo Laporte (01:56:17):
39 95, 365.

Mary Jo (01:56:17):
And it's so

Leo Laporte (01:56:18):
We seems like everybody should

Mary Jo (01:56:19):
Ask this. Yeah, we get this one. Yeah, I know. It's the ninth edition of this. It's it's something updated by all the experts across all the domains. I think if you are in an admin, you basically need and want this book.

Leo Laporte (01:56:30):
This is your Bible.

Paul Thurrott (01:56:32):
It is two questions I have about this topic.

Leo Laporte (01:56:34):
Yes, yes, sir. Yes.

Paul Thurrott (01:56:35):
First, do you realize, you just mentioned two Irish windows or Microsoft. It pros in a row

Mary Jo (01:56:42):
Back to back. Amazing. Hey, my name's not Foley for nothing. Microsoft.

Paul Thurrott (01:56:46):
<Laugh> also, I, I wonder why he hasn't changed the title of the book to

Leo Laporte (01:56:51):
Microsoft. Yeah. I was wondering the same thing. Yeah. Cause it won't fit. It just, it, it makes it too wide for the cover

Paul Thurrott (01:56:58):
Probably. Yeah.

Mary Jo (01:56:58):
Could be. You'll have to ask Tony Redman that

Leo Laporte (01:57:01):
Question. I'm gonna guess it's because it's confusing.

Mary Jo (01:57:06):
It is. Yeah. And you know, not everything is called Microsoft 365. Like there are still many skews at Microsoft call office 365. Not everything is much. That's

Leo Laporte (01:57:15):
True. The subhead is the ultimate guy to planning, deploying and managing the Microsoft 365 cloud productivity suite. But I think people kind of still think of it as office 365.

Mary Jo (01:57:25):
Yeah, I do too same, right?

Leo Laporte (01:57:28):
Yep. I think that's good marketing. Now you might ask why they put a pirate ship on the front. I don't know about that. <Laugh> makes no

Paul Thurrott (01:57:35):
Sense. There's a different, there is a different photo. Every addition. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:57:39):
<Laugh>, you're sailing off into the sunset in your square rig.

Paul Thurrott (01:57:43):
I don't think they're always boats though. Do you remember?

Leo Laporte (01:57:46):

Mary Jo (01:57:46):
No, I don't remember.

Leo Laporte (01:57:47):
Yeah, it's cool. Well, I'm not sure it's Irish for sure. The boat, you know very good. Let's do some beer.

Mary Jo (01:57:55):
Okay. So there is a brewery in Dexter, Michigan called jolly pumpkin <laugh>. They have nothing to do with pumpkins <laugh> despite the name, they make a lot of sours hours. And they, I just found out this week, they're starting to put their beers in cans and their beers are amazing if you ever get to try them. So on the fourth, my neighbors and I shared a jolly pumpkin LA Roja, du Creek it's red Creek is cherry. And so this is, this is a style, a lot of people call a Lander's sour, red ale. Mm. It tastes

Leo Laporte (01:58:38):
And love them.

Mary Jo (01:58:39):
Yeah. It's a Belgian type beer that tastes very sour. Like you gotta be ready for it. Like some people are like, wow, it tastes like vinegar. It's sour. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But when you add the cherry, it's really delicious. I feel like, and now it's in cans. The version from jolly pumpkin Laha to Creek is only 7.5% it's age and Oak barrels. And they put it in cans. I can tell you from personal experience, it's delicious with cheese and especially with the grilled cheese grilled cheese, for some

Leo Laporte (01:59:06):
Reason. Yeah. You got me.

Mary Jo (01:59:08):
Yeah, it's really delicious. It's it's got the nice cherry flavor, but also the ness. And so it isn't too sweet. Not too sour. Yeah. To me, it's kind of the perfect molding of the way Creek beers can be perfect

Leo Laporte (01:59:21):
With a CRO Madam.

Mary Jo (01:59:24):
Yes. Also

Leo Laporte (01:59:25):
That, which is so good. So good. I'll take two <laugh> lado Creek

Mary Jo (01:59:32):
Jolly. I don't know how it would be with crab cakes. Maybe,

Leo Laporte (01:59:36):
Maybe everything's good. You know what we had and you're gonna, you're gonna hate this idea, but we are in we're in Rhode Island, so it's the land of NA against it. And it's also NA it's also the land of Dell's frozen lemonade. So Nera Ansett makes a Shandy with the Dell's lemonade in it. And that's what we drank every time. And it was actually quite

Mary Jo (01:59:56):
It's good.

Leo Laporte (01:59:57):
Yeah. Yeah. It was quite

Paul Thurrott (01:59:59):
Goods poutine and you'll be fine.

Leo Laporte (02:00:01):

Mary Jo (02:00:02):

Leo Laporte (02:00:03):
You fixed the crackle by the way, Paul I'm so I oh, good. I didn't need to do that. I guess I, I forgot you were really at the end of your end of the line on this. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. But it did fix it, so that's good to know. I'm glad it fix it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I

Paul Thurrott (02:00:15):
Should. I think that's actually faster than I'm plugging it because then it you're doesn't

Leo Laporte (02:00:18):
Work for a while. I think you're right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I defer to your expertise. You are the king of windows.

Paul Thurrott (02:00:25):
No it's experience with this device is what it is,

Leo Laporte (02:00:28):
But Mr. Paulk, you can follow That's his blog become a premium member. As I have, cuz then you get a lot of really interesting stuff, including his history of windows program development. That's really fantastic. His book the field guide to windows 10 The field guide to windows 11 is imminent.

Paul Thurrott (02:00:49):
It is imminent,

Leo Laporte (02:00:50):

Paul Thurrott (02:00:51):
I'm 140 pages in

Leo Laporte (02:00:53):
It's imminent and imminent. How many pages will it be?

Paul Thurrott (02:00:57):
You know what I thought this book was gonna be smaller than the last one. I'm it's gonna be bigger.

Leo Laporte (02:01:01):
I think. Oh boy.

Paul Thurrott (02:01:02):
It's, it's hard to say obviously, but it's not. I'm rewriting most of it from scratch. Well the first release is imminent, so I'm gonna release it. I'll release it so people can get it early and get feedback. Nice. But I wanted to get the, the most important stuff. That's kind of new in windows 11 first you know, kind of up front. So

Leo Laporte (02:01:20):
Very good. Mary Jo Foley, all about That's her zing net blog. She is the queen of windows. So we are in the presence of royalty, my friends. Wow. And I'm the Paddington bear of windows. <Laugh> so it's, it's

Paul Thurrott (02:01:36):
Just not the MIS the Mr. Bean of windows,

Leo Laporte (02:01:38):
Mr. Of windows. <Laugh> that's me. We do this show every Wednesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern time, 1800 UTC. You can watch us to it live at live dot TWIT. Do TV chat with us at IRC. Do do TV. That's open to all of course. Don't forget. We have a chat room as part of our club, TWIT discord as well. All the shows have a presence there, but also every topic under the sun, anything geeks would be interested in. The discord has become my favorite social network. I really enjoy it. Coming up, we've got Alex, Lindsay's gonna do a, ask me anything in a couple of weeks a fireside chat hosted by aunt for all the members coming up at the end of the month. Lots of events, a new show coming soon. One of the things that members allow us to do is launch shows that don't have ad support just yet kind of kind of the, the incubator for, for new show ideas.

Leo Laporte (02:02:37):
And we we've already launched this week in space from the club. We've got the untitled Linux show. We've got Stacy's book club, we've got lots of stuff going on in there. You also get ad free versions of all the shows. So that's a real, that's a nice thing. And the TWIT plus feed, which will, I think this week feature my ceiling giving way. <Laugh>, <laugh> all the stuff that we don't put in the shows. And boy, that sounds like an awful lot of value in its only $7 a month. It is a big help to us in developing new content expanding the network. We really appreciate it. If you're not yet a member, please go to TWIT and join. But as I said, you don't have to be a member. There's a free IRC, There's ad supported versions of our shows. We have a great, very active. We have our own Masson Those are all free and open to all. So please stop on by. Those are also great places to hang out. I guess we will all be back next week before the cruise, our final windows weekly. Before we take off, don't forget Mary Jo with a very special windows weekly on July 20th.

Paul Thurrott (02:03:53):
Now I want to know

Leo Laporte (02:03:53):
Now I wanna know where

Paul Thurrott (02:03:55):
Will we be on Wednesday that

Leo Laporte (02:03:56):
Week? I can I can look on our itinerary. Curious as you know, I use notion, I, I think we're liking launch

Paul Thurrott (02:04:04):
Satellite, watch we'll stream windows weekly. And then we'll like,

Leo Laporte (02:04:07):
Well, I think you and I should definitely I'm bringing a drone. So maybe we should do a, a drone selfie or something. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> you should. Yeah. I mean, we're gonna definitely send some video back to you, Mary Jo, for good. Depending on how you feel about us as we're <laugh> as we're <laugh> Wednesday that's for Wednesday.

Paul Thurrott (02:04:27):
Honestly, I kind of had it with you too.

Leo Laporte (02:04:28):
Yeah, I got she'd be glad. Yeah. You know what? Take it over. No Xbox segment. Sorry, Wednesday. We are we are in Sitka, Alaska Sitka from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM. So that should be during the windows weekly. Yep. Timing. So we could actually have an internet connection. I could watch the show actually you're but you don't wanna be left out. You're right. You're scared of being left out. 3G should be pretty good at Sitka. No, I'm not scared of being left at <laugh>. Yeah, we will not be at sea that day. So good. Lisa and I are gonna go on a expedition, the best of Sitka. Oters Raptors and bears. Oh my, oh my, oh my but we'll be back by I think before the end of windows weekly. I'm pretty sure. Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Mary Jo. Have a wonderful week. We'll see you next time on windows weekly. Bye-Bye stay dry. Stay dry. Yeah. Ooh. The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

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