Windows Weekly Episode 774 Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for windows weekly. Paul Thurrott is here. Mary Jo Foley's here. Microsoft's earnings are here. We'll put it all in perspective, but the TLDR, it was a very, very good quarter. Some strange numbers in there though. Paul and Mary Jo will explain next on windows, weekly
TWiT Intro (00:00:19):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.
Leo Laporte (00:00:29):
This is windows weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley episode 774 recorded Wednesday, April 27th, 2022 into the cloud bucket. Windows weekly is brought to you by Tanium, Tanium, unites operations and security teams with a single platform that identifies where all your it data is patches. Every device you own in seconds and implements critical security controls all from a single pane of class. Are you ready to protect your organization from cyber threats? Learn more at tanium.com/TWiT and by it pro TV, give your team an engaging it development platform to level up their skills. Volume discounts. Start at five seats. Go to it. Pro.Tv/Windows, and make sure to mention WW 30 to designated it pro TV account executive to get 30% off or more on a business plan and by Plex track the purple teaming platform. Save time and increase productivity with a premier cybersecurity reporting and workflow management product designed to support proactive security strategies from a set through remediation. Visit Plex track.com/TWiT and claim your free month. It's time for windows weekly. The show where we get together and talk about Microsoft and what piles of money they're making. At least it will be this week. Mary Jo Foley is here all about microsoft.com is her website for the Z net folks. Mary Jo. Hello? Hello? Oh, wait a minute. Let me take down this. I love Lennox penguin just for the moment that we're doing. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:02:11):
No, Microsoft loves Linux. Oh
Leo Laporte (00:02:12):
Yeah, that's right. That's okay. That's right. I should get a little window hat on there. That's Paul Thurrott Thurrott.com lean pub.com and together Paul and Mary Jo know it all about Microsoft <laugh>. So after our conversation last week, <laugh> I decided that you were right Paul, that I shouldn't get like a fancy windows laptop. I should get one, like normal people get that's and then I noticed that there are 12th generation Dell XPS is available. There you go. So I that's what I is it 12 12th gen and it was an I five.
Paul Thurrott (00:02:47):
I thought you were gonna say the Royals, the Saudi Royal family was selling a gold en crusted version, a Huawei mate book or something. Yeah. It's like 12,000.
Leo Laporte (00:02:56):
No, no, it was actually given what it is. I mean, it's a nice, it's a nice notebook. I've always liked the PS notebooks.
Paul Thurrott (00:03:04):
Oh, they're beautiful.
Leo Laporte (00:03:05):
Yeah. And so I'll, I'll have an I five 12th gen to report in. They, they say in July, I'm hoping to get it before our TWiT cruises
Paul Thurrott (00:03:13):
Get it 13 or 15.
Leo Laporte (00:03:13):
15. Yeah. Beautiful. the thirteenths don't yet have 12th gen. I don't think it was only the fifteens and seventeens. Interesting. John you're playing Frank Zappa in the studio <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:03:28):
There's a that's Aing voice in your
Leo Laporte (00:03:32):
Experience. Yes, we were talking before the the show began about the Alaska cruise and I just want to reiterate it. It's not too late to sign up. If you want to go July 16th through the 23rd, we've got lots of fun and games planned. Paul and Mary Jo. No, Mary. Jo's not gonna be there. It's Paul and your, your real wife, not your work wife, Paul and Stephanie will be there. Lisa and I will be there. Rich Campbell is going on his very own dime, which is nice. So is Brad Sams? Who's who's else is coming. No Rafael river. Rafael that's right. Rael Rivera. So it's gonna be kind of a windows ish thing. So I think I'm gonna bring the Dell if you have not yet booked and you want to, there, I am told there's are traveling, so there's still cabins, cruise.Twit.tv. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a lot of fun. It's gonna be a lot of
Paul Thurrott (00:04:27):
Fun. Yeah, it should be pretty amazing. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:04:32):
Okay. So yesterday, Microsoft, it's interesting just to put this in perspective, Google had a no good, terrible, very bad, cool order. They blame the war, which is a little far fetched it's
Paul Thurrott (00:04:45):
<Laugh>. I mean, since you mentioned Google, I'll just point this out. Now I have this later in the notes, they earned more revenues than Microsoft did their ad business earned more
Leo Laporte (00:04:55):
Paul Thurrott (00:04:56):
Right. Well, let's put it, everything that Microsoft does combined <laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:04:58):
But they disappointed the market. So, yeah. Yep. So, so there you go.
Paul Thurrott (00:05:05):
But I, but, but let's bring this up again because I, I yeah,
Leo Laporte (00:05:08):
We'll, we'll put a pin in that one. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:05:10):
Because I think there's some, some of the things that Microsoft's doing and some of the stuff they mentioned in this earnings call are direct related to that fact. I think, you know, this notion that Microsoft in the past had kind of an apple Vy thing in one did part of that devices thing and never achieved it. And for even longer time, I think they've wanted a part of the whole advertising online services, revenue thing on the client side, which, you know, anyway, we'll talk about that. It comes up, it, it definitely comes up and you can kind of see we'll call it Google envy, I think is maybe the
Leo Laporte (00:05:41):
Only Google envy. They have no reason to have Google envy. They had an excellent quota. That's true. Right. I mean, okay. They didn't make as much money they
Paul Thurrott (00:05:50):
Did. In fact, I, one of the things I was kind of looking for was don't you sort of feel like the bottom has to fall out at some point. I mean, <laugh> the pandemic, you know, kind of crests and it's not like they're gonna lose money, but I mean, maybe the growth slows something, something like that. But I mean, honestly they just keep nailing it.
Leo Laporte (00:06:06):
Paul Thurrott (00:06:07):
It's, it's kind of
Leo Laporte (00:06:07):
Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And this, you know, in the face of the stock market, you know, tech stocks, tumbling yeah. Tesla lose a hundred billion in market value. I can't figure that one out. <Laugh> because
Paul Thurrott (00:06:23):
Yeah. I could tell you
Leo Laporte (00:06:23):
Why. Really, okay. Yes. Tell me, can
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:26):
Leo Laporte (00:06:27):
Paul Thurrott (00:06:27):
You know, yeah, well, yeah, because of Theon Musk, I mean, Elon Musk is that kind of material character. So his shenanigans are gonna have repercussions.
Leo Laporte (00:06:37):
Well, they're mostly worried that he borrowed a ton of Tesla stock to pay for TWiTtter. And they're afraid that that's not gonna go well. Right. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:48):
Leo Laporte (00:06:48):
So kids tell us, give us the bottom line. Mary Jo. Yeah. Earnings. Learnings.
Mary Jo Foley (00:06:55):
Yeah. So Microsoft made a lot of money. Q3
Leo Laporte (00:07:01):
Bottom line. There you go. 50 billion TLDR,
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:04):
Leo Laporte (00:07:04):
50 billion revenue.
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:07):
Yep. Of that 23.4 was what they call the Microsoft cloud, which used to be called the commercial cloud Azure.
Paul Thurrott (00:07:16):
It's it's fake. I'm sorry, what?
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:18):
Azure, Microsoft 365, LinkedIn dynamics, 365. Microsoft made, as we talk about a lot, they made up this bucket of things that all are cloud and put them all together and they call this the Microsoft cloud,
Leo Laporte (00:07:29):
But it was half of their revenue. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:32):
It was half of their revenue. Yeah,
Leo Laporte (00:07:33):
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:34):
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So anybody who says, how is Microsoft still making money during the pandemic and the war and all that? It's because of their cloud business. That's in short, that's where
Leo Laporte (00:07:47):
It's coming from. That's from yeah. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:07:48):
That's yeah, exactly. Right.
Mary Jo Foley (00:07:49):
Yeah. Yeah. so all the segments were up, you know, they've got the, the intelligent cloud, which is server products and cloud service. That's where Azure lives productivity and business process. That's where office LinkedIn dynamics are. That was up and even more personal computing, windows, Xbox, Xbox search and service surface. Wow. That was a mouthful. <Laugh> search and surface <laugh> you could barely of
Paul Thurrott (00:08:16):
The word Xbox and it just, you went,
Mary Jo Foley (00:08:18):
Paul Thurrott (00:08:20):
Mary Jo Foley (00:08:22):
Paul Thurrott (00:08:23):
Leo Laporte (00:08:23):
Mary Jo Foley (00:08:25):
Yeah. so, you know, if you look, if you look at the slides, you're just kinda like, okay. Everything pretty much was up. There are a couple little blips of things that were not, but that's right. For the most part, everything grew. And when I asked Microsoft, okay, how, how did you, it, what, what was the way that you made this all happen? They said we had stronger than expected sales execution greater than expected commercial bookings, especially because of Azure. And they said they have, they're getting longer and bigger Azure contracts that are coming in. Right. So it's, it's like, yeah, everything's looking look at Rosie. Only 1% of their business comes from Russia. So it's not like they're hauled on new business in Russia had any material impact on them.
Paul Thurrott (00:09:13):
Right. Yeah. You know, the there's always someone in the audience that calls out the Azure growth number as if it's some kind of a warning sign, right. This business is about what, 13 years old. I think <laugh>, it grew 40% year over year in the quarter
Mary Jo Foley (00:09:28):
More even, yeah. A 6%. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:09:32):
46%. I'm sorry. You know, there was a period of time there where they were able to maintain 70% growth and when it kind of fell below that people started freaking out, but you gotta understand, this is not a, this is not a new thing. This is, they didn't invent this two weeks ago. This has been around for a long time. Yeah. for, I think for a mature business like that, to still experience that kind of growth is incredible.
Mary Jo Foley (00:09:50):
Yeah. It is incredible. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. The one, when I looked quickly, they put out a PowerPoint every time they do earnings. The first thing I noticed when I looked across the PowerPoint was dynamics. Didn't do what they expected and that's so that may seem trivial to a lot of people listening to this. But actually, if you look at how much Microsoft's been pushing dynamics and bundling dynamics with other product sales, and they're real invested in this product line growing, so dynamics is E R P and CRM, it's where they compete with Salesforce. Right. right. And other companies, this was off a bit and they just said, you know what? We have big aspirations in that market. I'm like, yeah, but you didn't have the big sales that you had in previous recent supporters.
Paul Thurrott (00:10:33):
Yeah. This was I, so one of the things we gotta kind of highlight here is the language that Microsoft uses when they do talk about something, which is often very muddy. And then of course they, they just don't say things about a lot of stuff. So one of the comments they had made about dynamics, which I think is kind of interesting is that this business is growing faster than the business applications market overall. All
Mary Jo Foley (00:10:58):
Paul Thurrott (00:10:59):
Like, okay. So,
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:01):
Paul Thurrott (00:11:02):
And what does that mean? So what is dynamics position in that market? It's a, it's probably a very small minority position is what
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:09):
It is. It's small, it's small compared to like Salesforce, but growing, you know, still growing,
Paul Thurrott (00:11:13):
But growing it's still. Yeah. So they probably grew share some minor amount. Yeah. But they're still very small. And of course it's easy to grow when you're small. I, it it's, it is. Yeah. I, I think you gotta look at that and say, yeah, there's not really there. Wasn't a lot of positivity there, you know, that they could talk about. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:11:30):
Specifically you can bet in Q4, which they're in now, they're really gonna be cracking down on the sales people to get people, to buy dynamics, to move that. Yeah. You can already feel it. Like for us in the press, they push a lot of dynamics case studies right now to us like customer wins. Right. Cuz they want us to write about how great dynamics is doing.
Paul Thurrott (00:11:49):
Actually's kinda tilt on that note. Let me, this is not the same part of the business, but Microsoft Viva, I think kind of fell into this category as well. Microsoft Viva, I believe is technically part of productivity and business processes, which is, it is Mm-hmm, <affirmative> mostly Microsoft 365, right? Yeah. So, oh, excuse me. Or is that, is that the same? No dynamics is in intelligent cloud, right? Dynamics,
Mary Jo Foley (00:12:11):
No dynamics is also in productivity.
Paul Thurrott (00:12:14):
Okay. So actually they're all in. Okay. That's good. They're all in the same part of they're in the same part of the business. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so this is, this is a business that has, that is fairly new, right. I would say about a year old at
Mary Jo Foley (00:12:24):
This point, BBA. Yeah. Mm-hmm
Paul Thurrott (00:12:25):
<Affirmative> it has 10 million monthly active users.
Mary Jo Foley (00:12:28):
Paul Thurrott (00:12:29):
You know, is that good? Is this, you know, like how do you get Viva as an enterprise or as a commercial customer? It's is it a, is it a, an add-on to Microsoft 365 essentially.
Mary Jo Foley (00:12:43):
Paul Thurrott (00:12:43):
This is a solution for onboarding employees. And then I think for engaging employees after the fact, it's fine for this hybrid world where we're not all going into an office kind of thing, but it seems to me like this was an attempt, like we need another value add on top of Microsoft 365. It makes sense for the era we're living in.
Mary Jo Foley (00:13:02):
Paul Thurrott (00:13:03):
Is this good? I don't even know what to compare this to. Like what would you even like what other businesses are like this it's kind of a weird,
Mary Jo Foley (00:13:09):
Paul Thurrott (00:13:11):
Mary Jo Foley (00:13:11):
In a weird, you know, it is, it's also, you and I were talking about this this morning, it's telling when you have an earnings call from Microsoft about numbers, they give you and numbers, they don't give you. Right. And right, right. The numbers, we didn't get this quarter, which I kind of thought we might mm-hmm <affirmative> was the number of office 365 commercial seats. We didn't get that. They just said up 16%. Right?
Paul Thurrott (00:13:35):
I think so tell me if this is the same thing. We didn't get seats, but they, well, this, I think this might be the number there were there was a fig I actually kind of paraphrase this. So this is gonna be the exact language, 345 million paid office 365 commercial subscriptions. Is that the
Mary Jo Foley (00:13:52):
Yeah. Number we're looking for? I didn't see that number anywhere. Where
Paul Thurrott (00:13:53):
Was it? It was in, it was in the in the post turnings call. Thank you.
Mary Jo Foley (00:13:56):
Yeah. Yeah. It was,
Paul Thurrott (00:13:57):
It's probably been 10 Q as well. Yeah. Okay. Compared to 48.4 for a consumer.
Mary Jo Foley (00:14:02):
Yeah. Okay. That's good. I, I didn't even think they gave us a number. So I'm like, uhoh, that's a little worry. Well,
Paul Thurrott (00:14:07):
No, it's usually the slide. But it wasn't,
Mary Jo Foley (00:14:09):
It wasn't in there. It is. And teams, no number, no. You know what teams didn't get a lot of play in this call at all.
Paul Thurrott (00:14:16):
No, they lumped it in with Microsoft 365. It's almost like Batman interrupt in Microsoft. 365 in team two <laugh> I think that's notable. They, me too, they often talk about teams milestones and I think they're, you have to think, well, why, why? Right. So teams you should is definitely up. But I think what you're, what you would've seen is dramatic, slowing and growth. Yeah. And I, I don't think they want that to be a story.
Mary Jo Foley (00:14:39):
No, you know, no.
Paul Thurrott (00:14:40):
Right. But I think by not mentioning it, it becomes a story <laugh>, you know, cause think when you look at what they did talk about teams, which I thought was kind of interesting. Yeah. There are over 100003rd party teams apps now available mm-hmm <affirmative> that's huge platform. Okay, great. Then they also made this crazy claim that spacious as I call it that using teams somehow saves organizations up to 60% of
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:08):
Paul Thurrott (00:15:08):
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:09):
Some complex formula <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:15:12):
It's reducing costs when compared to a patchwork of single point identity, productivity, collaborations, and meeting solutions. In other words, if you don't go with teams, you have to pick little solutions that do little parts of what teams do. And somehow they've done math <laugh> that teams saves you 60% percent, 60%. That's a number. See there, there's
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:34):
A hard number. It's a number. Yeah. <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:15:37):
And teams usage has never been higher. I would hope so. Right. That should be true every single day.
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:42):
It should. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:15:45):
Mary Jo Foley (00:15:46):
Yeah. So those, those missing numbers are kind of interesting. And sort of telling in that
Paul Thurrott (00:15:52):
From my perspective, biggest missing number. Not that I honestly expected it, but let's be honest here. Windows 11.
Mary Jo Foley (00:16:00):
Yeah. They're never gonna give us
Paul Thurrott (00:16:01):
That number. I know, but that, that itself, to me shows you the soft underbelly of this happy story. They're trying to tell highest quality scores of any version of windows, enterprise enterprises are adopting it at a faster price than previous releases. Not a single hard number to be had, not a single one. And all the usage statistics that we see from third parties put windows, but whichever you choose to believe or whatever. Yeah. Very, very low, very low. And and of course, you know, this is when they're making push to get businesses to adopt. Yeah. When there's 11 without I think making a great case for it, honestly, the biggest selling point of going to windows 11 is that the upgrade is really easy. Yeah. You know, and
Mary Jo Foley (00:16:45):
Free it's and
Paul Thurrott (00:16:46):
Free and, and free it's it's like, it's like upgrading to the next version of windows 10. Yeah. Because that's what it is. You know
Mary Jo Foley (00:16:53):
Paul Thurrott (00:16:54):
Anyway, I thought that was sad, but expected
Mary Jo Foley (00:16:58):
Speaking of numbers that were spacious to use your word. Yeah. <Laugh> okay. They didn't give us a windows 11 number, but here, here is a stat. They gave us that both Paul and I are scratching our heads over and trying to figure out more than 100 million PCs have shipped in each of the last eight quarters. Wow. And windows continue to take, share. Okay.
Paul Thurrott (00:17:23):
That should be like a that's impossible record scratch. Its literally it's lit. That's what I wrote my article. It is literally impossible. 800 literally impossible million new PCs per quarter over eight,
Mary Jo Foley (00:17:34):
Over two years, 800 million, two years,
Paul Thurrott (00:17:37):
Years. It's impossible. That's but it's impossible for,
Mary Jo Foley (00:17:40):
For several reasons. It's not,
Paul Thurrott (00:17:41):
It's not true. It's just not true. Well, why would they say it's a
Mary Jo Foley (00:17:45):
Lie? I know they've got a way that if it's this makes sense or
Leo Laporte (00:17:50):
Let's come up with some more lies.
Paul Thurrott (00:17:54):
What was the, no, hold on a second. Mary Jo came up with the perfect phrase. It's not a lie because it's technically true. <Laugh> are they
Leo Laporte (00:18:02):
Including phones, PCs or I mean
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:06):
Paul Thurrott (00:18:07):
We have theories. We
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:08):
Think, we think what they're saying is we got 100 million PCs in each of the last eight months at less than each of the last eight quarters in the channel is our guests. Like they're not talking about sales. Right. We're talking about,
Paul Thurrott (00:18:24):
Okay, here's my problem with that. Now if he had said, I still would've taken an issue with this, but if he had said in the past year we sold 400 million. Oh I guess it would've been sorry. Sorry. Sorry. It would've been 200. Right? For the past four quarters we sold two. Oh what am I? What's the actual number he gave him. Sorry. The, it was 100 million per quarter. So in the past year, the past four quarters we sold 100 million windows licenses per quarter.
Mary Jo Foley (00:18:55):
No, he didn't even say windows license.
Paul Thurrott (00:18:56):
No, no. I know. But if he had said that I'm I'm, I'm, I'm changing it into something that could have been a fact. Okay. You could have been like, oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. And the reason that could have been okay is twofold. One is there was a, a boom <affirmative> for one thing. The, the pandemic triggered a PC buying boom. And secondly, there was a component shortage. So PC makers could have been buying licenses knowing that when they got the components and they could finally ship those computers off the customers, I would accept about for a year. Yeah. For one year. What
Mary Jo Foley (00:19:28):
About this crazy idea? I have the idea that I just thought, okay,
Paul Thurrott (00:19:31):
Mary Jo Foley (00:19:32):
Here's the actual statement. More than 100 million PCs have shipped it doesn't say windows PCs. It says PCs.
Paul Thurrott (00:19:42):
Mary Jo Foley (00:19:44):
So what if we we're including Chromebooks we're including max, right? Like say we're including anything that can be called a PC.
Paul Thurrott (00:19:51):
Here's the thing. So we have companies that
Mary Jo Foley (00:19:53):
I'm just making up crazy reasons.
Paul Thurrott (00:19:55):
I know, but I'm let me give you some, let me give you some actual notes. Right? So Gardner Gardner said that in 2021 PC makers sold, and this includes max, well, one of 'em doesn't include Chromebooks, but max PCs and Chromebooks 339 million IDC, 348.8 million. I average those numbers. 344.3 million that's that's in calendar year 2021. I we're making up somehow there's another. And those include non windows PCs. Right. In, in both cases. And, but let's okay. Let's we'll say it's all windows fine. You, you still have to make up about 60 million, 60, and then you have to do it again.
Mary Jo Foley (00:20:37):
They're rounding up
Paul Thurrott (00:20:39):
The previous year, the number was lower. So I don't remember what it was, but let's say it was 300 and you know, five, 10, something like that. Yeah. Whatever it was you have to now you have to make up another 70 to 80 million. He had those two, this is coming up. This isn't coming up a little short. This is coming up way. Short. That number is completely inaccurate. I I, and I, and I think you're right. It's interesting that he said I I'd have to find the exact language cuz he didn't
Mary Jo Foley (00:21:04):
See 100 million PCs have shipped or
Paul Thurrott (00:21:07):
Mary Jo Foley (00:21:09):
Paul Thurrott (00:21:10):
Are they sitting, are they on a boat with some cars out in the middle of the ocean? What are you talking about?
Mary Jo Foley (00:21:14):
Yeah. That's where it is. They have not, it's gotta be, they have not
Paul Thurrott (00:21:17):
That. That's not that number's not even close to being true.
Mary Jo Foley (00:21:21):
I didn't even put this number in my story because I just thought this, I can't even like with a good conscience, but this number in my story <laugh> I know they said it and I know they've gotta weigh their backing this number up, but they never explain number.
Paul Thurrott (00:21:34):
Well, I'd love to see it cuz this is not the case. Yeah. This kind of remind, you know, there was, remember they did something like that with edge where they claimed that edge had like X percent of something usage on and you kind of did the math on it. You like, no, this is this. This is not true. Even you included every single person that like that used windows opened a PDF file. Once this thing could not have been, this is not true. Right.
Mary Jo Foley (00:21:55):
Well here's the other number that we can't figure out. Okay. Yep. Nearly 500 million monthly active users on our content feed. Microsoft start okay's the Microsoft start is the brand name. Wait for the thing that the first used to be, I was gonna
Paul Thurrott (00:22:13):
Repla it for you to explain it. The thing that should have gone through everyone's head is what the heck is Microsoft star?
Mary Jo Foley (00:22:19):
No people are tweeting that to me. People are like, what does Microsoft start? Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:22:23):
Cause you're like, what is that? Right. Yeah. And what is, I'm sorry. I didn't
Mary Jo Foley (00:22:25):
Mean, so it, Microsoft start is the rebranded for MSN and Microsoft news feeds. Right? They're available for windows 10 and windows 11. They're part of that widget panel. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, it's all those things we've been complaining about on the show, the bikini photos, the Cardi B is a tool of Satan, blah, blah, blah.
Paul Thurrott (00:22:43):
That's well, that one that's actually legitimate news. And I think it's,
Mary Jo Foley (00:22:46):
I just saw that yesterday. It's fresh in my mind.
Paul Thurrott (00:22:50):
You know, some of not, all of it is terrible is what I'm saying anyway. Yeah. It's garbage. So yeah. Yeah. So it's in the hundred
Mary Jo Foley (00:22:56):
Million monthly active users.
Paul Thurrott (00:23:00):
Yeah. And, and the, did they say it? Higher engagement? Yeah. Strong engagement. No worries. It there's nothing about engagement.
Mary Jo Foley (00:23:10):
Paul Thurrott (00:23:10):
Engagement. You said something like, this was like bigger engagement than they expected. <Laugh> right. You shouldn't expect 5 million people to use this thing. So what is that? You know, again, we, we don't know how they're measuring this. Right. But I have to think that a lot of the measurment is someone is open this feed in windows, clicked on a, a news story. And then I, I, you know, I'm just projecting here, but I feel like most of them are like, oh God, what is this? <Laugh> and then they get rid of it. And is that, I guess they engaged with the thing, you know, that would, that's a form of engagement, but it doesn't that doesn't, that doesn't sound like a monthly active user to me. But that's what they're talking about is 500 million people who are these people. I wanna meet some of these people. What are you doing with
Mary Jo Foley (00:23:53):
Your guys? <Laugh> remember
Paul Thurrott (00:23:56):
Was Amazon. They used to claim big numbers for Amazon. Remember that
Mary Jo Foley (00:23:59):
They did, they did.
Paul Thurrott (00:24:00):
It's the reason it's still a thing. Right? People supposedly use it.
Mary Jo Foley (00:24:05):
Yeah. the reason it's still a thing also is it's very tied in with Microsoft advertising. Right? <laugh> and yes, we've talked before about, you know, Google is an advertising, this,
Paul Thurrott (00:24:18):
This was the, this was what I was just alluding to exactly is this.
Mary Jo Foley (00:24:21):
And so Microsoft sits there and you gotta be, you know, such a or Chris KA or Amy Hood. And you're looking at, you're like, look, how much money Google makes from being an advertising company
Paul Thurrott (00:24:30):
Mary Jo Foley (00:24:31):
Nothing? Why can't we do, we're doing <laugh> and the way they, which
Paul Thurrott (00:24:36):
On other people's content, think about it. They're they're like a, like a leach on the underbelly of a, yeah. A shark or something, you know? Well,
Mary Jo Foley (00:24:43):
Start, start is the same thing, right? Like if you go into the Microsoft start.com, there's a tab that says shopping. If you click on shopping, this is gonna be where Microsoft sells custom ads and ads will be part, will be the entire feed. Right. Will be shopping. So yeah. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:25:01):
Yeah. I don't understand. I, I, that one, look, I don't, I can't refute this in a anyway, other than to laugh and say it's ridiculous. It, it, it just doesn't sound right. But I don't have any, I, I don't have any data.
Mary Jo Foley (00:25:13):
We can't disprove it. I know we can't.
Paul Thurrott (00:25:15):
But this PC thing mm
Mary Jo Foley (00:25:18):
Mm. I would like to hear more on how they measured the PC thing. I really would like to hear more on that. It
Paul Thurrott (00:25:23):
Was so specific. They could have really made it, they could have made it less questionable. If they had said windows, you know, left the PC part of it out. I would've been like, okay, that's high, but I don't know what, you know, maybe they have agreed. You know, I don't, I don't know. I don't know how that works. Yeah. But when they said PCs sold, shipped like, oh, shipped, is that what I don't
Mary Jo Foley (00:25:44):
Paul Thurrott (00:25:46):
Were they in the
Mary Jo Foley (00:25:47):
Tried to buy? No. Anybody who tried to buy a PC during the pandemic knows what we're talking about. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:25:52):
Leo tried to buy a PC this week and wait until July. Yeah. For,
Mary Jo Foley (00:25:55):
I know now, remember when my surface laptop three died and I went down to best buy. I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna buy a PC and use it until I can get this thing fixed right there. They had almost none. Like, so that's why I'm like, how did they, okay. How did this many ship, if you couldn't even get the parts to make them, and they couldn't stay in stock at retail, like where, where were they shipping? You know? <Laugh>, I don't know that number. Just kind of stuck a and the way they talked about it as eight consecutive quarters, there's some trick in there. There's gotta be a trick in the yeah. Cause it's
Paul Thurrott (00:26:26):
Not it's, it's certainly not an out outright lie it's right.
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:30):
But there some way they've got it so that they can, but, but is
Paul Thurrott (00:26:32):
Misrepresent the facts
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:34):
Paul Thurrott (00:26:35):
Yeah. That's one might call a lie, spin. It's spin
Mary Jo Foley (00:26:41):
A spin. It is spin. Yeah. Yeah. And no, no explanation. And nobody, you know, of course, none of the analysts ask about that because if it it's very interesting and telling when you're on these calls, the analysts only care about the cloud. They don't care about anything else. Isn't
Leo Laporte (00:26:58):
That interesting. Well for that, but for Microsoft, that's not so unreasonable.
Paul Thurrott (00:27:02):
The PC market has never sold 400 million of anything in a year. The, the highest peak of the PC industry was 365. Like that has never happened. So I, I,
Paul Thurrott (00:27:17):
I don't know if, because of the pandemic and it was this crazy demand first with consumers, and more recently with commercial customers, PC sales shot through the roof, they even exceeded the best year ever of the PC industry. No one has ever reported that story, by the way. No analyst's company has ever come out and said that this happened, but Microsoft is claiming it happened. I mean, I think they could only use what numbers could they have. The, they could only have the numbers of windows licenses, right. That are going out the door. I, and maybe listen, if they oversold windows licenses that tells me the next two years are gonna be terrible for windows because that's gonna catch up with them,
Mary Jo Foley (00:27:58):
You know, deferrals, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:28:00):
That would make sense. That's what they're doing. Cause companies probably buy licenses by the bushel,
Paul Thurrott (00:28:06):
But you know, Microsoft has this rich history of smoothing out revenues to windows in particular. Remember there used to be that 20 million month in channel in the
Leo Laporte (00:28:15):
It's in the channel.
Paul Thurrott (00:28:16):
Yeah. Well they, you know, they, we sold a little too many this month. We'll defer some of them for, you know, quarter rather we'll we defer some, an export quarter is a little light. We'll take some of that by act will, will kind of make the big peaks and valleys look a little smoother, you know? This is not that <laugh>, you know, like this is, they're like, you know, we're going all in and that's why I sort of feel, maybe that's not exactly why, but I sort of said, you know, don't, you sort of feel like the bottom has to follow up from Microsoft at some point, not that sales like fall, but RA the growth slows dramatically because eventually the pandemic kind of winds down. I don't know what we're calling this anymore, but but it hasn't happened yet. You know, hasn't happened yet. I don't know. I'm confused by those numbers.
Mary Jo Foley (00:29:01):
That number is confusing. It is. Yeah. I'd like to hear more. I would like to hear more <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:29:07):
Well, you know, Xbox, I mean, same thing. I dunno if you have to <inaudible> or whatever, but Xbox series X and S two quarters in a row they've they've taken share. Okay. right. They are the market leader, which I means they sold more than the other guys, I guess, in the us, Canada, UK, and Western Europe in this past quarter there is news from M P D that Xbox was the best selling console in the United States in that quarter. So that maps, you know, that's good. But then they get, you know, you get into like the like the cloud stuff and it's like, what are they talking about here? They, they don't even, they, they won't tell you how many Xbox game pass subscribers there are, but they Willie tell you how many hours they played, roughly billions <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative>. They were billions of hours played up 45% year of year, 10 million people. This is the only hard number we got have streamed the games via Xbox cloud gaming to be clear. Xbox cloud gaming is a feature of Xbox game pass ultimate, which is the most expensive version of that subscription.
Paul Thurrott (00:30:14):
And that's the number we got. We just got the little subset, like not, not every person, who's an Xbox game pass ultimate subscriber, and that's necessarily streams games, but 10 million of them have mm-hmm <affirmative> and we didn't even get a hard number of the number titles. Why can't you just tell me how anyone could go and count, but there were hundreds of titles in Xbox game pass and it is another one of those, like obviously more games from third party publishes than ever before. That should always be true. <Laugh> right. Is there gonna be a quarter in the future where there are fewer? I, I, it should always grow, right. I, I it's, some of this stuff is just amazing to me tell
Leo Laporte (00:30:50):
That's a Netflix.
Paul Thurrott (00:30:52):
Well, yeah. Netflix, you know, that's a, that's a saturated market. I mean, this is yes. You know, where, where Xbox game pass is now is back when Netflix kind of still had a DVD business, you know, <laugh> actually, it's exactly like that, right? Yeah. Cause we still have a DVD business with consoles or whatever discs they're using. Anyway, surface not event revenues are up 13%. That's good. But then Amy Hood said lower than expected. Right. and they're expecting similar results this expected
Leo Laporte (00:31:21):
Paul Thurrott (00:31:23):
Yeah. Expected, I guess planned said, but yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:31:26):
Yeah. Like we built them, but nobody bought well.
Paul Thurrott (00:31:29):
So I, I think the, look, the, one of the hard things with some of these comparables is you have to think about what was going on with that product line the year before, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so this year Microsoft had a major product launch in the fall. So at holiday quarter, and this next quarter, the one we're talking about now should be significantly better than the quarters a year earlier because there weren't significant product updates at that time. So the fact that service revenue is only up 13% is actually not great. And it, and I think it makes Amy Hood's comment makes sense. Cause that is lower than expected. I would expect that to be over 20%, you know?
Leo Laporte (00:32:05):
Paul Thurrott (00:32:07):
Because honestly, blah, blah, blah. The products are great. Yeah. That's true. Okay. That's true. Yeah. That could be supply
Leo Laporte (00:32:12):
Chain. That's the answer tos question. There's your
Paul Thurrott (00:32:15):
I know, but they didn't even say it. They could have said that they could have said, you know, we had supply chain issues, then everyone out their head and not asked questions,
Leo Laporte (00:32:21):
Pull a Google and blame the war in Ukraine. Good. Right. So all the pulled up, Russia,
Paul Thurrott (00:32:27):
Russian, usually those Russian guys are clicking on ads and what's going on.
Leo Laporte (00:32:31):
<Laugh> that's the most feeble excuse I've ever heard. Yeah. For a dwindling ad business.
Mary Jo Foley (00:32:39):
Leo Laporte (00:32:41):
But it does. Okay. So yes. Exaggeration aside, <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:32:48):
It still made a lot of money. It's
Leo Laporte (00:32:49):
Still a pretty good quarter. It is interesting that cloud is becoming basically though my business. Yeah. Right.
Paul Thurrott (00:32:54):
It well, so Mary Jo mentioned the three big businesses three businesses, the Microsoft F has, right. The two biggest are the two cloud oriented businesses. Yeah. I mean, they are, they really have become that thing. They've been marketing themselves as for a long time. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. And then as far as just like numbers, I mean, my God 16.7 billion in net income on revenues of almost 50 billion in a single quarter you know, revenue up double digits, 18% year over year. It's, you know, we can quibble, I guess. I mean, I kind of wish my parts, the parts of the company I cared about were doing better or whatever, but you know, what parts
Leo Laporte (00:33:30):
You care about? Paul?
Paul Thurrott (00:33:32):
I care about more personal computing. It's no More personal. I'm sorry if it's not obvious windows Xbox surface. I mean, it's perfect. Yeah. But, and it's the smallest business. Not, it's not, you know, small, small, but
Leo Laporte (00:33:46):
Well that's because we are old Microsoft guys.
Paul Thurrott (00:33:49):
Leo Laporte (00:33:49):
That's true. You know, I mean, we think of my I'm too, but
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:52):
<Laugh> but you're,
Leo Laporte (00:33:53):
But you're future looking you're young at heart
Mary Jo Foley (00:33:55):
Are modern. You're modern yet old,
Leo Laporte (00:33:57):
But Paul and I are still back in the 19th. What is it? The 20th century when Microsoft was a windows Xbox.
Paul Thurrott (00:34:06):
Yeah. A bunch of middle east got white guys at the windows. Eight windows, 95 launch dancing on stage. I
Leo Laporte (00:34:11):
Remember that awkward,
Paul Thurrott (00:34:12):
Horrible. Lots of elbows. Start me up. Yeah. It's not that company.
Leo Laporte (00:34:19):
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:19):
Leo Laporte (00:34:20):
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:21):
It is not.
Leo Laporte (00:34:26):
Again, not a bad thing. In fact, if you want to be a, a successful company in the 2020s, it's probably a good thing of
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:33):
Leo Laporte (00:34:35):
Although Xbox is still
Paul Thurrott (00:34:36):
An important it's for Microsoft. It's great for Cheryl. Liz,
Leo Laporte (00:34:40):
Did they talk about
Paul Thurrott (00:34:41):
For us? It's like, eh,
Leo Laporte (00:34:43):
Did they talk about like the vision acquisition or anything?
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:47):
No, no. They talked about nuance.
Leo Laporte (00:34:51):
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:52):
Right in March. Right. And it,
Paul Thurrott (00:34:54):
It impacted the results.
Leo Laporte (00:34:55):
Mary Jo Foley (00:34:55):
Very little though, like
Leo Laporte (00:34:57):
Paul Thurrott (00:34:57):
But I mean the cost of the acquisition factor into it, right. Wasn't really,
Mary Jo Foley (00:35:01):
It did earnings per share. Took a, I think a 1 cent hit because of nuance, but starting next quarter nuance, you're gonna hear a lot more about nuance and you're, it's mostly gonna be in the intelligent cloud segment. So some, the majority of it I'm guessing is gonna go into the Microsoft cloud bucket and then there'll be some pieces that are on premises, but yeah. Nuance, which is the ambient healthcare slash AI company they bought for like, what was it? 17 billion, 18 billion. That's what we're talking about here. Do
Leo Laporte (00:35:33):
You think that'll be the new Microsoft slogan into the cloud bucket?
Mary Jo Foley (00:35:38):
Yes. To be everything,
Leo Laporte (00:35:40):
Mary Jo Foley (00:35:41):
Everything in the bucket into the cloud bucket. Just throw it in there. It goes in there. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:35:48):
I wanna take a little break cuz we this, we have more to say. I know, but I wanna take a little time out so we can welcome a brand new sponsor to the Tanium. I don't know. Have you, have you at all heard about Tanium? Yes. You know, Mary Jo, cuz you're all about the enterprise, you know about it. It is a upstart, but I think super successful, super interesting company that unites the ops team and the security teams in one platform it's Tan's position that the industry's approach to cybersecurity has a fundamental flaw. It management and security point tools offer only a small piece of the solution needed to protect your environment. And many of them promise they can stop all breaches. When you know, it's obviously not true. They can't really, you need a holistic point of view on all this making decisions based on stale data, trying to defend your critical assets from cyber techs, with tools that, that don't even talk to each other is no way for it.
Leo Laporte (00:36:52):
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Leo Laporte (00:37:57):
That's so cool. Of course, for endpoints, you need client management, you can automate operations, everything from discovery. As we mentioned to management if you've got sensitive data and what business does not, you can do sensitive data monitoring index it, monitor it globally in seconds. Notice I, the speed is a big part of what Tanium offers. Tanium protects organiz where other endpoint management and security providers have just failed. One platform. One platform Tanium identifies where all your data is across your entire it estate patches. Every device you own in seconds. And these days with zero days, you may only have seconds implements, critical security controls and all from a single pane of glass. You'll find a lot of testimonials on the Tanium website, T a N I U M tanium.com/TWiT. But I'll give you one from Kevin bushy, vice president of it at ring power Corp.
Leo Laporte (00:38:53):
He says, quote, Tanium brings visibility to one screen for our whole team. If you don't have that kind of visibility, you're not gonna be able to sleep at night <laugh>. Is that why that's a that's Kevin Bush. Thank you, Kevin. For that with real time, data comes real time impact. If you're ready to unite operations and security teams with a single source truth and confidently predict your organization from cyber threats, it's time you met Tanium to learn more, visit.com/TWiT that's tanium.com/TWiT. No more silos. I want a bumper sticker that says no more silos. We thank Tanium us so much. You're brand new to the show.
Mary Jo Foley (00:39:38):
Can I add a Tanium related tip right
Leo Laporte (00:39:40):
Now? Yes. Yes.
Paul Thurrott (00:39:41):
Mary Jo Foley (00:39:42):
Happening? So Paul and I have Paul and I have a friend who used to work at Microsoft who joined Tanium about a year ago, Michael Nehouse.
Leo Laporte (00:39:50):
Mary Jo Foley (00:39:51):
And he does a blog. If anybody cares about OS called out of office hours. It's oof hours, O O F hours do com
Leo Laporte (00:40:03):
I love it.
Mary Jo Foley (00:40:03):
<Laugh> and he still talks a lot about windows there and he gives tips and tricks about things you can do with windows 11. Like his latest post customizing the windows 1122 H two start menu layout. He does a lot of stuff like that. So yeah, he, he, we know him from Microsoft, but now he's with Tanium. Nice.
Leo Laporte (00:40:21):
Yep. I remember him.
Mary Jo Foley (00:40:23):
Leo Laporte (00:40:24):
Thank you, Tanium. Nice. A nice get nice new sponsor for our to add to our pellets on the wall. Tell all advertisers, we do not skin you and put you on ball. <Laugh> that would be a bad,
Paul Thurrott (00:40:40):
A bad, but if we did, we wouldn't publicly display. We would never
Leo Laporte (00:40:43):
Paul Thurrott (00:40:44):
Of course <laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:40:46):
So on with the show. I can't remember where we left off.
Paul Thurrott (00:40:51):
I think we finished
Mary Jo Foley (00:40:52):
Leo Laporte (00:40:53):
Right? All right. Yeah. Everything you needed to know. And I love Paul your stats, the Google's ad business alone.
Paul Thurrott (00:41:00):
Leo Laporte (00:41:00):
Don't know. Yeah. Is figured,
Paul Thurrott (00:41:01):
Well, remember like the Apple's iPhone business, Apple's gonna release their latest earnings on Thursday. I think tomorrow there, the iPhone is by itself, bigger than everything that Microsoft does. And that's at least the iPhone is a product, you know, real people are buying it. These, this is it's a big business. When you hear something like advertising, it's like, Ugh, really? I know it's, it's depressing. I
Leo Laporte (00:41:25):
Know. Yeah. But look at the numbers. I mean, I know, I know. Totally. And, and honestly the reason TWiTtter to, you know, pull in this other huge story, which we'll be talking about for four hours after this show. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> <laugh> the reason that TWiTtter was in play and has been in play for years. Right, right. They've been looking for buyers for years is they just cannot compete with Facebook and Google with online ads.
Paul Thurrott (00:41:47):
That's right. They've always been a weird, distant number three and it, and we it's unclear why it's seems like TWiTtter is fairly influential, but they, as a business, it's never really,
Leo Laporte (00:42:00):
Yeah. It's an outsized influence mostly cuz you know, media types hang out there. But yeah. You know, I don't, Elon's gonna lose his shirt. I mean, I think that's, that's pretty clear. That's what the stock market's saying. That's why Tesla stock is down so much. I don't
Paul Thurrott (00:42:15):
Think he cares.
Leo Laporte (00:42:16):
Yeah. When you're the richest man in the world, you got one other shirt. You don't really, you got more than
Paul Thurrott (00:42:20):
One shirt. What do you have? I didn't get this money. Not suspended. Aw. <Laugh> you know, what are you doing? Dosing your cat with water. <Laugh>
Mary Jo Foley (00:42:27):
Getting some water. Did you? I had to throw him out when we were she's out today. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:42:35):
Do you have a squirt bottle? You know about the squirt bottle method?
Mary Jo Foley (00:42:37):
I, yeah, except it doesn't deter him. He just gets mad or, and like makes
Paul Thurrott (00:42:42):
To talk about this. I, I just told Mary Jo this morning, our cats wake us up in the morning. We don't let our cats in the bedroom cuz they're so disruptive. But what they do now is in the morning, they want to get fed. Even though their bowl is full of food and they sit outside our bedroom door. They're
Leo Laporte (00:42:56):
Paul Thurrott (00:42:57):
And I wanna keep a squirt by, I know next to the door and just run out there like a bandit, like <laugh> then I'm Curring away. I just yell at 'em it's
Leo Laporte (00:43:07):
It's it's the same thing. At least I had a terrible night sleep last night. Cuz we're having the house painted. It's making the cats nuts.
Mary Jo Foley (00:43:12):
Leo Laporte (00:43:12):
Yeah. So they're even more skid ish than usual. Yeah. And then meowing in the middle of the night loudly. The worst. It's awful. But we love em. We love
Mary Jo Foley (00:43:23):
Our little furry Freds. There are pets. There are holy.
Paul Thurrott (00:43:27):
I would never take my fingers. Run as little backing, you know, shake it. Verse supers or anything. I would never,
Leo Laporte (00:43:35):
He hasn't killed him yet. Mary Jo.
Paul Thurrott (00:43:38):
No. We've had cats for a long time, but I just don't understand. We do get up in the, we fed them. You know, we we're reading the paper in the morning then from some random place. I don't know where they're in the house. It's in the back nine. Oh, you hear like, like, like what are you doing? Like
Mary Jo Foley (00:43:51):
Leo Laporte (00:43:51):
Are the cats yours or are they really Stephanie's?
Paul Thurrott (00:43:54):
<Laugh> no, the they're both of ours, but they're both. They're equal opportunity.
Leo Laporte (00:43:58):
I'm very clear with Lisa. I love cats. We can have cats, but they're your cats. They're not
Paul Thurrott (00:44:03):
<Laugh> no, the cat, the cats will always choose Stephanie if there's one and that's the choice, but right. They, both of them have opportunities with me every day. One of 'em sits by the stairs waiting for me to go down the stairs so she can be petted. And one sits on the couch of
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:17):
The night trips. You as you go down.
Paul Thurrott (00:44:18):
Oh yeah, no she does. Yeah. This is every, where's the most dangerous place. Yeah. Right there under my feet smart.
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:24):
Paul Thurrott (00:44:25):
Yeah. Every day. Yep.
Leo Laporte (00:44:27):
All right. Let's let's not that we haven't been, but let's talk more about windows. Shall we?
Mary Jo Foley (00:44:32):
Paul Thurrott (00:44:32):
Speaking of hard numbers at duplex, as we know, every month comes out with this kind of usage report. It was windows 10 for a long time. Now it's windows 10 and 11. Last month you might remember windows 11 usage growth slowed dramatically. This month. It slowed further. They, according to duplex went from 19 four point. So 19.4% usage overall, you know, all versions of windows, 10, 11 to 19.7% in April. So, you know, using Microsoft language, there are more people using windows 11 now than ever before.
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:07):
Paul Thurrott (00:45:08):
We're seeing a lot of engagement with that upgrade. Let me tell, oh yeah. Which an easy upgrade until windows 12. You should think about if you're a business, this is the time get in early <laugh> that's where all the action is. So
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:22):
Yeah, but again, what does ad duplex measure mostly consumer retail, right? Like not yep. Commercial.
Paul Thurrott (00:45:29):
Yep. Yeah. There
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:30):
Kept saying yesterday a commercial commercial commercials where all look at this. Right. So
Paul Thurrott (00:45:35):
Yeah. I, but again, you know, I always wonder about this stuff. You know, one of the things that Microsoft didn't talk about in their earnings a lot was consumer PC sales or consumer windows. There was, there were no numbers at all. And I have to think that's because it fell off the cliff and maybe that's what we're seeing here. Right. That they
Mary Jo Foley (00:45:51):
That's what I'm thinking. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:45:52):
And I, it seems so early for that, you know? But I also think, you know, and I think of my wife all the time, cuz I, I remember one time going up and looking at her computer and she had this window slid off to the bottom corner of the screen and I said, what's that? And she said, oh, it's some trying to get me to do something. And I clicked on it and pulled it up. And it was, you need to restart your PC, right? No, you have really serious security problems. <Laugh> like, you know, sometimes You should just listen. You know, sometimes
Leo Laporte (00:46:18):
I don't know. They just want me to do something. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:46:22):
So I, I think a lot of people might see this windows 11 upgrade and think, you know, I, I have this thing in the back of my head that windows upgrades don't always go well and maybe I should not even think about this. Yeah. It's a hard to, for them to advertise because I don't, I think for most people it's a bad connotation, but windows 11 is just another version of windows 10. You wouldn't. I mean, well you'll notice it cuz it looks a little different, but I mean, as far as the, you know, compatibility with applications and drivers, it's not, it's the same thing. So yeah. You're not really gonna run into any issues there. And
Mary Jo Foley (00:46:55):
This is one,
Paul Thurrott (00:46:55):
If you don't install it, I guess.
Mary Jo Foley (00:46:57):
Yep. This isn't in the notes, but I have a question from the discord for you, Paul
Paul Thurrott (00:47:01):
For me. Okay.
Mary Jo Foley (00:47:02):
Yeah. So you know, this past week was preview releases for windows patches, right. That are things that are gonna show up on patch Tuesday. So wizard Ling is running windows tens to, and he said after he installed this week's preview on windows 10, there's some crippling windows, Explorer memory leak. Oh good. That he encountered after.
Leo Laporte (00:47:25):
Oh yeah. I've seen that.
Mary Jo Foley (00:47:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you know anything about this or what the plan is to try to fix
Paul Thurrott (00:47:30):
This only that it's happened. Yeah. I I've heard that too. Yeah. I I'm kind of compulsive when it comes to this stuff. I'm not, I, I, I understand why he installed it. I, you know, if you go to windows update, I do this, you know, I use computers every day, but then there are these computers. They don't use that often. <Affirmative> I'll plug 'em in, sometimes throw it onto windows updates, see what's there. And they'll always be that optional thing. It's, it's, it's displayed a little differently in windows 10 and windows 11, but I always click on it, download and install, you know? And I I've never personally been bitten by it, but this one yeah. Is this's why they're previewing it. Right. I mean, it's, this is the point of it. Yeah. I don't feel they do it. Good job of Saying, Hey, are you sure? Cuz this is, you know, this might not be ready for prime time. No,
Leo Laporte (00:48:17):
Mary Jo Foley (00:48:17):
Never happened. Listen to what he just said, oh man, windows Explorer was maxing Ram. And I literally took nearly a half hour to restart windows without powering off and on <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:48:27):
Right. Yeah. No, he's not. I wonder someone emailed me about this exact thing. Exactly. The same problem. Yeah. In fact, I think there's a guy in our forum, so that's the same problem.
Leo Laporte (00:48:36):
Paul Thurrott (00:48:36):
Yeah. It's a, it's a preview. I
Leo Laporte (00:48:38):
Think I've seen a Reddit as well. Yeah. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (00:48:43):
Buyers beware testers. Beware of that one.
Paul Thurrott (00:48:46):
Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And there's all these theories about who is to blame. It might be into only computers.
Leo Laporte (00:48:53):
Oh yeah. Oh interesting. It's not universal. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:48:56):
Maybe I I'm. We're still fog of war here, but
Mary Jo Foley (00:48:59):
That's trying to figure it out there.
Leo Laporte (00:49:00):
Wizard link says, okay, at least I'm not alone. <Laugh>
Mary Jo Foley (00:49:03):
Cool. Yep. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:49:04):
Paul Thurrott (00:49:04):
That doesn't help too too much, but
Leo Laporte (00:49:06):
He's on an I five eighth generation. Yeah. So I know, sorry. He just made it in, by the way. I'm like those people, the insider insider insider channel, I guess they just held the door open a little longer for them.
Paul Thurrott (00:49:24):
What a, what an astonishing bit of perfection from those guys
Leo Laporte (00:49:27):
Did people discover it? Cuz they saw the, the little button they
Paul Thurrott (00:49:31):
Oh of course. Are you kidding me? This is you can't do this online. The whole world's gonna notice this. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:49:37):
Mary Jo Foley (00:49:37):
Leo Laporte (00:49:39):
Maybe that's why Microsoft put that bug in.
Mary Jo Foley (00:49:42):
Ugh. Just to see if anybody was really awake. You guys awake out there. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:49:47):
Paul Thurrott (00:49:48):
Just, it's per it's so perfect. It's just so perfect.
Leo Laporte (00:49:53):
We don't recommend you do this, but as windows insiders, we allow,
Paul Thurrott (00:49:57):
We literally do everything we can to prevent it. But we work at Microsoft. I
Leo Laporte (00:50:01):
Mean we can do what we want. Come on the master, the
Mary Jo Foley (00:50:04):
Universe. Is it there? Is it there an 11? I thought I saw in the lease notes that they fixed a memory leak in there in windows 11.
Leo Laporte (00:50:13):
Paul Thurrott (00:50:14):
Mary Jo Foley (00:50:14):
It? I don't know if it's the same one or not. Well,
Leo Laporte (00:50:16):
They're doing that all the time.
Mary Jo Foley (00:50:17):
I know they are great.
Leo Laporte (00:50:20):
Mary Jo Foley (00:50:20):
I guess I could upgrade your windows. 11 <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:50:23):
Guys just used dot net. You wouldn't have this problem, but you know, let's not worry about that. <Laugh> anyhow,
Leo Laporte (00:50:30):
Is that true? Is there, are there no memory leaks in do net? No, that's
Paul Thurrott (00:50:33):
Not really true, but I just,
Leo Laporte (00:50:34):
I garbage collected C
Paul Thurrott (00:50:36):
Of course. Yes. Yes it is. That's why this is the thing. So, you know, Microsoft back when they did windows eight could have made their new environment, app environment based on.net and they didn't <affirmative>. Mm. And it's based on com <laugh> and C plus plus under the, under the covers and that's, you know, Metro became store apps became universal apps, became store apps, whatever we're calling them now you know, you what do you call 'em the app SDK apps, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative>
Leo Laporte (00:51:05):
Paul Thurrott (00:51:05):
You, I stuff you anyway, this stuff could have all been.net based. It would've been, so,
Leo Laporte (00:51:11):
Paul Thurrott (00:51:11):
Leo Laporte (00:51:12):
So, so C plus, plus if you want memory, you it's on you to allocate it and, and deallocate it. There's no automated. So if you, if you don't deallocate it, after you're done with it and it'll just build up and build up and that's,
Paul Thurrott (00:51:26):
I would say programs written in languages like CNC plus plus the number one issue is probably this very problem.
Leo Laporte (00:51:32):
Buffer overflow is the number one issue. This is the number two
Paul Thurrott (00:51:35):
Issue. OK. You know, they're related almost, but I was gonna say it falls into the same bucket, right? Like, you know, there's a reason we have managed code languages. Like I anyway
Leo Laporte (00:51:46):
Buffer overflow usually happens cuz you use something you've, deallocated a memory leak happens because you forget to deallocate. So
Paul Thurrott (00:51:55):
They're the peanut butter and jelly of yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:51:57):
They go together
Paul Thurrott (00:51:57):
Unmanaged language issues,
Leo Laporte (00:52:00):
The soup and sandwich. Yeah. Of of flaws. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (00:52:02):
Yeah. They're cheap and easy to attain. Yep. Sorry. I just, I just will never stop bothering me. Anyhow, what else have we got? No,
Leo Laporte (00:52:15):
That's actually a, a really interesting point.
Paul Thurrott (00:52:19):
Yeah, frankly, no, I I'm in the middle of going through that history now and it really bothers me. They, you know, that windows team had Anot invented here kind of mentality. Did,
Leo Laporte (00:52:26):
Did they do it? Oh, it was that not, not the all we want to preserve legacy.
Paul Thurrott (00:52:31):
Oh no, no, no. They weren't preserving any legacy. They, they designed something from scratch.
Leo Laporte (00:52:36):
Is it going forward? We will use.net and nothing, but
Paul Thurrott (00:52:40):
They that's what they should have done. Yeah. I, they did not. So I just, I don't, you gotta listen. That team tried to replace everything. They try, try to get rid of the star button. They try to get rid of the file system. They, I mean, they were gonna replace everything, you know? Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:52:56):
One of our dozers in the discord, iridescent. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Iridescent ox says you can do your own memory management with.net, but you have to use the keyword unsafe.
Paul Thurrott (00:53:10):
Right? Perfect. Perfect. By the way, that's a reminder why
Leo Laporte (00:53:16):
That, you know, I didn't realize that number one problem we talk about on on security now really still to this day, all those zero days, almost always buffer overflow
Paul Thurrott (00:53:28):
Leo Laporte (00:53:28):
Paul Thurrott (00:53:30):
I related, I'm just being I'm. Semi joking about this. You gotta remember the, the, the, the reason those things are still issues is because the low level stuff in any platform will be written in those languages. You're not gonna write windows in.net. Right. the core of what the, the underlying stuff is always gonna be C, C plus post assembly, language, whatever. I mean, it's, that's just the reality of it. So you build frameworks on top of that. You make applications, how many
Leo Laporte (00:53:54):
Flaws do they patch on Tuesday? 238.
Paul Thurrott (00:53:58):
Yeah, sure. No, I know you
Leo Laporte (00:54:00):
Of those are not in legacy code. Some of those don't stuff.
Paul Thurrott (00:54:05):
So C so C sharp as an example, like the language I'm not gonna get the year. Right. But C was written in C plus plus, right. Cuz it didn't exist when it first came out and it probably wasn't until 2013, 14, when they did the Roslin version of the compile that they were able to build C sharp with C sharp. Like that's kind of a big milestone. Right? you, but these things have overhead and you know, dot net is a framework managed code framework has a little bit of overhead. I in 2001, that was a big deal, I would say in 2020, 2022.
Leo Laporte (00:54:37):
Yeah. There, there are still contingent people. I think Steve Gibson's among them cuz he writes an assembly language. You think garbage collection is the work of the devil is
Paul Thurrott (00:54:45):
<Laugh>. Okay. Well fair enough. I can't agree with Steve Gibson.
Leo Laporte (00:54:51):
Well, he's writing an assembler so he doesn't even have
Paul Thurrott (00:54:55):
Mal I don't know. I haven't talked to him in a few years, but the last time I talked to him, he was talking about moving to arm assembler by the way.
Leo Laporte (00:55:03):
Paul Thurrott (00:55:04):
Leo Laporte (00:55:04):
Don't know if that ever interesting.
Paul Thurrott (00:55:05):
Yes, because the world moving arm, right? I mean,
Leo Laporte (00:55:08):
Well, that's the problem. When you write an assembly, you are writing to the hardware, to the hardware as close as you can. You don't write portable code. That's not mm-hmm
Paul Thurrott (00:55:18):
Mm-Hmm anyway. I don't know how explore in windows is no doubt a hybrid application that has CC plus assembly and well not managed code, but probably win RT elements to it. I, I don't know how I don't windows 10 windows 11. I don't have no idea what is written in. But I suspect that part of it might be its ties to the low levels of the operating system. I'm sure. Memory leak issues are tied to that kind of stuff. It's it's but you don't really, that doesn't happen a lot. And user applications these days. That's kind of rare, you know, I would think in windows
Leo Laporte (00:55:54):
I'll have to look, but I, I get the sense that that's not that unusual to be honest,
Paul Thurrott (00:56:02):
I'm trying to, well, it should. I think we can all agree. It should not never happen. But I don't know. I don't know how look the problem is windows is a patchwork quilt of different technology's so you could pop up some interface that's web app. You could pop up another interface. That's Wint this one's dot net, this one's C plus plus and win 32, you know, it it's just sometimes to see interactions between these things that cause problems, you know and then individual applications or could be hybrid applic. I bet I'm well not positive, but I would bet money that windows Explorer is a a hybrid mess of things from different eras. For sure.
Mary Jo Foley (00:56:40):
<Laugh> hybrid miss.
Paul Thurrott (00:56:45):
Yep. That's my operating system. I call it the magic of software, the magic <laugh> the
Mary Jo Foley (00:56:49):
Paul Thurrott (00:56:50):
The magic of I think everybody should have an intensity slide. <Laugh> yours is always to the right it's it's it's it's on one edge of the slide, the way
Mary Jo Foley (00:57:02):
I saw in their notes. And I'm like, what the heck is an intensity slide? <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (00:57:08):
So I should say slider. I'm sorry. That was a typo in my, okay. So if you think about what HDR is, HDR is something that gives the colors pop it's typically used in like movies, right. Is big thing mm-hmm <affirmative> and then in video games, right? Windows 11 and 10 support HDR displays, they do auto HDR. They have all these different things. The problem is like sometimes HDR can be too much or too little, you know, depending on your needs or wants. And so now they're they're they are, I should say now they have added, I guess they have added to the Xbox game bar, which by the way, speaking of an interface that could come up on top of other things, I don't know how that's written either, but I mean, it's a newer interface. It's probably written in something semi modern is gonna allow you to change the value, the, the amount of intensity that you see in the colors. So you can make it to your liking. I think that's a good idea. Cause it's doing a H R automatically. But it may be a, an experience. So they they're kind of toning down the dry or toning it up. It's up to you. You can adjust it if you want. That's a good idea. I've always wanted that kind of thing. I've never understood why it is. <Laugh>
Mary Jo Foley (00:58:16):
You see my eyes glazing over yet. <Laugh> like, oh man. Talk about incremental features. Here we are ladies in general.
Paul Thurrott (00:58:24):
It's funny. I have an even more incremental feature. Oh good.
Mary Jo Foley (00:58:27):
All right. Oh good fire when ready? Go ahead. Bring
Paul Thurrott (00:58:30):
It. Yeah. So in yeah, you thought that was bad. At least this is one you might wanna see. So I think we all know, or hopefully we know that when windows 11 came out, one of, one of the many regressions was that what is now called widgets no longer supported that temperature and weather display right on the task bar. A lot of people complained. And so Microsoft responded by adding it back. But what they didn't do was give you the temperature information that you used to see in windows 10. It was just a little weather indication. Like you could see a little cloud or a sun or something. So they actually shipped this feature in stable on patch Tuesday. So one of the little things they shipped was it will now display the temperature. And because it's Microsoft, not consistently with the way it looks in windows 10, God forbid it's I don't recall it. It's like a, it's an overlay on top of the icon instead of being next to the icon because it's still just an icon. It's not a, a bigger, you know what I mean? It only, it only occupies the amount of space and icon can occupy,
Leo Laporte (00:59:34):
But does it have an intensity slider?
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:36):
I just am like, who actually can <laugh> does anyone? Well,
Leo Laporte (00:59:40):
We're it P windows. So now
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:42):
We are, we are, this is what we have now. Right? This is what, listen,
Paul Thurrott (00:59:45):
This is way more interesting to me than our dynamic stuff. We were going over earlier.
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:48):
Leo Laporte (00:59:49):
Man. Oh boy. Hey
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:50):
You're you're is why you're in the old era and you're not a modern
Leo Laporte (00:59:54):
Man. Yeah, right? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay.
Mary Jo Foley (00:59:57):
Leo Laporte (00:59:58):
I'm okay with it.
Paul Thurrott (01:00:00):
All right. So we, we talked earlier about language I had, this is my favorite version of Microsoft language in the past week. And it did not come from the earnings. Microsoft has ceaselessly promoted and I mean, this, this is the third post in a row that they've made about how easy it was for Microsoft to roll out windows 11 to its own users.
Leo Laporte (01:00:23):
<Laugh> oh, hallelu. Forget
Paul Thurrott (01:00:25):
For forgetting for a moment that Microsoft is the company that made windows 11 <laugh> and also forgetting the reality that windows 11 is just windows 10 and we're just upgrading from one version to another something we did without any news. What's well, actually the words news sometimes from time to time, but we've done for years and years. Twitce a year, right? For many years. Never. No, I can't say that it did generate news sometimes, but whatever, we didn't make a big deal of it. Microsoft is making a really big deal this because remember they want to convince yeah. Businesses to do the same thing. And they're like, look, we did it. How hard could it be? But this is the language I love this. I love this. He, this guy, I don't know who he is. I should make fun of him. But Lucas vouch, Les says Microsoft's upgrade to windows. 11 is largely considered the smoothest we've ever had. <Laugh> largely considered
Leo Laporte (01:01:14):
By many people on both. Hold
Paul Thurrott (01:01:17):
On a second. So wait, I'm sorry. You should be able to categorically largely say that this is the we've ever had you're you're saying this suggests there are people at Microsoft who don't believe this is the smoothest upgrade you've ever had. What?
Leo Laporte (01:01:31):
Oh, there are doubting Thomases, but largely by and large
Paul Thurrott (01:01:37):
Everyone. Yeah. The other little tidbit that came out, I actually didn't put the, my article, but I should, I'll just highlight this cuz I find it humorous. They gave Microsoft employees the opportunity to upgrade to this thing early, before they rolled it out to everyone automatically and almost no one chose to do it. <Laugh> they were, they were actually surprised by the lack of interest in making this happen early. So that didn't really happen. <Laugh> so
Mary Jo Foley (01:02:04):
Users, why do you wanna disrupt your world? Like why?
Leo Laporte (01:02:07):
Well, and you understand why Microsoft wants you to Yeah, of course.
Mary Jo Foley (01:02:13):
But their users need to be productive. <Laugh> he's
Leo Laporte (01:02:15):
This aimed at the dufus CEO who will then bring it to his it guys and say,
Paul Thurrott (01:02:23):
You see like
Leo Laporte (01:02:24):
How easy this was. We should do this. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:02:27):
Which I would say to this guy, this is the reason you're in the seller. And please go back there. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:02:32):
No, the CEO is in the
Paul Thurrott (01:02:34):
Roof. No, that's what he says. The it guy. Oh yeah, yeah. That's yeah, yeah, no, no, go back.
Leo Laporte (01:02:38):
I think I, I don't wanna put it words in anybody's mouth, but it seems to me the number one complaint from it is some niTWiTt executive demanding something impossible. Of course. Without any understanding of the consequences.
Paul Thurrott (01:02:52):
I don't think, I, I don't think Microsoft has convinced anyone. We have too rich of a history with windows, for anyone to be fooled by the notion that some version of windows is gonna change anyone's life. I, I just don't they've moved on. They've got iPhones. They've got Google ads. They've got this, you know, Facebook stuff. It's all good. They <laugh>, nobody, nobody, nobody in a position of power is gonna is like hanging on every word of some Microsoft video saying no,
Leo Laporte (01:03:17):
They could do it. 99% effective.
Paul Thurrott (01:03:21):
The engineers at Microsoft were able to do this. I mean, how hard could it be?
Leo Laporte (01:03:24):
What is 1% of 199,000
Paul Thurrott (01:03:28):
Leo Laporte (01:03:29):
Yeah. Hundred 95,000 people. That's not, is
Paul Thurrott (01:03:31):
It hundred 95 people? No, it's a hundred. No. 1,950.
Leo Laporte (01:03:34):
Yeah. 1009 50 people. It didn't go so well.
Paul Thurrott (01:03:38):
Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's talk to those guys. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:03:41):
That must are they filming? Those are not in oh
Paul Thurrott (01:03:44):
Largely, actually funny coincidence. Those guys were all working on windows explor. Its I don't know why there was a memory with that. <Laugh> it's like something went wrong there. Yep.
Leo Laporte (01:03:58):
Oh my goodness. All right. I think I should probably take another time out here before we get to the biggest story of the week. Microsoft teams.
Paul Thurrott (01:04:09):
Leo Laporte (01:04:09):
You. Yeah, I know. I know you're all so excited. But before we do, let me talk to you about our favorite guys and gals at it. Pro T who are helping it departments everywhere, get upskilled, get better, get new skills. You know, we talk a lot about it. Pro TV, since the very founding it's been around for a while, we were there right there at the beginning of watched them grow Tim and Don doing such a great job with it. And we always talk about how as an individual, all getting into it, it pro TVs, a place to get those SEARCHs that you need to get the training that you need, but it pro TV has team training too. So if you are a busy executive or an it leader who who has a team and you would like to get them some new skills update the current skills, this is the place to go.
Leo Laporte (01:05:03):
First of all, they're gonna love it. And that's kind of important. I mean you can say, well, you have to watch these, but if they enjoy the videos, if they enjoy the training, it makes it all much easier. You'll be glad to know. 80% of users who start a video. It pro TV has the stats 80% who start the video, finish it. They go all the way through cuz it's engaging. It's fun, but more important to everybody. It's really informative. There's you there's real meat in those videos. Yeah. You could tell your it team, go watch that YouTube video. 15 minutes in after smash, the subscribe button, Bing the bell and all that stuff. You might get some information. It pro TV it's down to business immediately with, in people working in the field who are smart, who are engaging, who are entertaining, who can most importantly, I think, cuz they're passionate about the subject.
Leo Laporte (01:05:53):
Really engage your team. You'll be given your team the tools they need to make your business thrive and it'll get them invested in their learning. They wanna learn. We all wanna learn. That's human. You know? And because the tech industry is constantly changing and evolving, your team really needs to constantly train there's new software releases them upgrades, new cyber threats. What you listen to this show, why would you listen to this show? Cuz you wanna know what's new, how to keep up with what's going on. That's what it pro TV offers your team, the training, the perspectives, and, and constantly putting out more new content cause of stuff, getting updated all the time. That content goes in the studio to the library in 24 hours, very fresh steaming piping hot into the library. 5,800 hours of fresh training in every area of it, all the training, all the certs in one place, Microsoft, Cisco, Linux, apple security cloud, soft skills, too, compliance, training, all the stuff.
Leo Laporte (01:06:58):
If your team needs and the dashboard that they offer for the enterprise product is great. You can manage your seats. You can assign an unassigned team members. You can create subsets of users, give them assignments, customize those assignments. You can monitor the progress. You can get usage reports. So you can say, look, it's it's working. You know, assignments can be full courses or individual episodes. Every episode has a full transcript by the way. So you can go right to the transcript, say, oh yeah, this is, this is the area we need to work on and assign that you'll get metrics like login, viewing time tracks completed. You'll have insights into your team's viewing patterns and progress over any a period of time with visual reports. So for the individual, for the it team, it pro TV is the place to go give your team the it development platform.
Leo Laporte (01:07:50):
They need to level up their skills and enjoy the journey for teams of two to 1000 volume discounts. Start at five seats, go to it. Pro.Tv/Windows. And just like the individual plans. The offer code is WW 30. You'll get, if you mention WW 30 to your account, executive 30% off or more on a business plan it pro.tv/windows. The offer code WW 30. This is a no brainer. Something you gotta do it. Pro.Tv/Windows. We thank you so much for their supportive windows weekly. You support us too. When you use that address, make sure you add the slash windows. So they know we saw it here. Now we can talk about Microsoft teams. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:08:42):
Like Microsoft and their conference call.
Leo Laporte (01:08:44):
Do they not mention teams?
Mary Jo Foley (01:08:45):
Leo Laporte (01:08:46):
Barely at all. Really?
Mary Jo Foley (01:08:48):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Odd. Very odd. I think it's cuz growth is slowing, but that's kind of to be expected at this point. No, the story Leo's referring to is one that's kind of crazy because up until now, the teams app has not been in the Microsoft store. Like if you, if you needed to get teams, you had to go download it from Microsoft site. So as of may teams were, will be in the store. Finally. There's lots of questions here. This is, this is the team's app for both windows 10 and windows 11. My biggest question is, does this signify that Microsoft is finally ready to make available the long rumored teams, two point Ohle, you know, we've heard they're rewriting teams. It's not gonna be electron anymore. It's gonna be written in WebView to
Leo Laporte (01:09:43):
That's actually I don't know. Well isn't that good? Paul? Don't you think that's better?
Paul Thurrott (01:09:46):
Yeah. Okay. I was gonna, I was doing
Leo Laporte (01:09:47):
Paul Thurrott (01:09:48):
Cynically. Say something like not.net, but actually okay. Webview twos, edge web Chrome based
Mary Jo Foley (01:09:55):
Paul Thurrott (01:09:56):
Yeah. Here's an idea though.
Mary Jo Foley (01:09:57):
We don't know though.
Leo Laporte (01:09:58):
So it's we it's it's essentially their Microsoft's version of, of electron
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:03):
Kind of. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:10:05):
<Laugh> interesting. Yeah,
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:07):
Kind of. Right.
Leo Laporte (01:10:09):
So maybe it's not hard. I don't know.
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:11):
Yeah. The teams app have been in the store once a version of teams for windows 10 and S mode was in the store at one point that Microsoft pulled it and ever since then, if somebody was looking for teams, you say, yeah, go download it from Microsoft site. Is it in the store? No, but starting next month it will
Leo Laporte (01:10:27):
Be well, that's interesting. So if you're an S mode, you can't use teams.
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:31):
No. So I don't know. Now is anybody even using S mode anymore is a good question. But well
Leo Laporte (01:10:36):
They still sell it
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:37):
Some still they do. They, I
Leo Laporte (01:10:39):
Had a caller on the radio show called me, said I can't install Chrome. Why not? Yeah. And
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:43):
I said, the first thing you tell anyone is turn it off. Just get rid of S mode and upgrade.
Leo Laporte (01:10:48):
But that's not what Microsoft wants me to say is that
Paul Thurrott (01:10:52):
Microsoft wants to say you to say lots of things. I, I wouldn't worry too
Leo Laporte (01:10:55):
Mary Jo Foley (01:10:56):
SMO. Doesn't make sense now that you don't have to use only store apps on windows. Right? Like it, it kind of made a little bit of sense for some slice of users, but now there's no reason why would you use S mode,
Leo Laporte (01:11:11):
Paul Thurrott (01:11:12):
Heart in the right place. Don't what you did was Ron
Mary Jo Foley (01:11:15):
Bad execution. Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:11:17):
By the way, I have a couple questions about this is team's client that's in the store. Is this gonna be consumer and business?
Mary Jo Foley (01:11:25):
No. So it's the, well, so here's another point that is worth highlighting on one. Those 10 teams is for the, the team's app is for consumer school and business on windows 11. It's this, it's the app for school and business because windows there's like, there's a, they, what do they call it? A chat client for teams. That's for consumers. That's pinned to your task bar when you first install windows. So it's not for consumers on windows 11, but it is for businesses and schools.
Paul Thurrott (01:11:58):
So I, I, I wish in a way there was an audience I could look at, then they could raise their hands if they've done this, because I feel like this is something we've all done and that's this, I, I, I get, you know, review computers and different computers coming, going. I have this set of things that I install again. And again, one of those things is teams. Like you said, you have to go to the web. And so type into the search, you know, the bar download Microsoft teams. It goes exactly to the page on the Microsoft website. I need I'm on autopilot. I click the download teams button, it gets down there and my downloads folder, I'm doing other stuff. And I finally go to install it and it says, oh, you don't have to install this. You already have this thing on your computer. And that's because when you go back to the Microsoft teams for windows, desktop page, it says teams for home or small business is the first link. And the second one, which is the one I want is teams for work or school. I've done that. I I've done that. Like a dozen times. I, I can't be the only one. Like it's no the most poorly design anyway, whatever. That's just a website and I'm an idiot, but seriously, how can we have one client?
Mary Jo Foley (01:13:01):
Paul Thurrott (01:13:01):
When's that gonna happen?
Mary Jo Foley (01:13:03):
Yeah. We don't know. We, you know what we don't know. And it's crazy cuz this thing has been rumored team stood out. Oh for like years at this point. Right, right,
Paul Thurrott (01:13:12):
Right. We don't know. Right. So from the beginning, I mean from the beginning that we heard there was gonna be a consumer thing. Yes. Well remember in the early days it was this talk of Federation with Skype, right? Yeah. That we'll be able to access our Skype contacts from within teams, which mm-hmm <affirmative> is the same thing as what we're talking about, we just changed the name of the consumer app. But I mean really what I want is I have a handful of people, Mary Jo's, one of them Rafael's is another one who I communicate with on Skype in this case. And you know, it'd be nice if there was just one app, I mean, for that kind of stuff. And there isn't
Mary Jo Foley (01:13:47):
There isn't no.
Paul Thurrott (01:13:49):
Mary Jo Foley (01:13:49):
It's confusing how they did this. Very confusing, but it's good that it's finally coming to the store. <Laugh> right. As of may, some point in may, according to the word map.
Paul Thurrott (01:14:00):
Yeah. Well in related and even less interesting news Microsoft this past week released a beta version of teams for the Mac that is optimized for Silicon apple, Silicon maps. Right.
Leo Laporte (01:14:16):
Wow. That was really no reason not to use it.
Paul Thurrott (01:14:19):
Well, yeah. I mean, look, I, my experience with apple Silicon max is that most things find even if they were designed for Intel, the one exception by the way was one drive and it took them over a year to finally get that up. But that's out. So the new OneDrive for client for the Mac is actually a native M one apple Silicon app. So that's great. This particular app I don't, I don't think it matters too too much, but they say it uses 50% less power during meetings <laugh> which is how much less power I use during meetings.
Leo Laporte (01:14:47):
<Laugh> it's just a study. Yeah. So did you see that like 40% of, of online meeting users are disengaged? <Laugh>
Mary Jo Foley (01:14:59):
The only reason that's kinda a low number.
Leo Laporte (01:15:01):
I know it gets much eye there.
Paul Thurrott (01:15:03):
Here's the thing and this, alright, this is another one. I wish there was people out there that could raise your hands. So we've all been in these meetings, right? We're in a meeting where it's like a work meeting, you're online, you're in teams or whatever you zoom. It does better. And you're not engaged cuz you're bored to death. Like I don't nothing, almost nothing we talk about has anything to do with me. I just have to sit there and kind of take it. But I know in the back of my head, some at some point and it will be some person who knows, I'm not, I'm totally zoned out. They'll be like, Paul, you think about that then you're like,
Leo Laporte (01:15:33):
Paul Thurrott (01:15:33):
Has fluff notice? I'm sorry, what
Leo Laporte (01:15:35):
Paul Thurrott (01:15:36):
So there's a, there's a thing in the back of your brain. You have to be constantly,
Leo Laporte (01:15:41):
Oh it's awful. Pay, paying
Paul Thurrott (01:15:42):
Attention a little bit, right? Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:15:44):
Paul Thurrott (01:15:44):
To. Cause otherwise you just look like a jerk.
Mary Jo Foley (01:15:47):
You say it's a great idea. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:15:49):
Paul Thurrott (01:15:50):
A yeah. Oh a hundred percent. I, I just wish I, you could do
Leo Laporte (01:15:52):
Paul Thurrott (01:15:53):
That would be huge mistake.
Leo Laporte (01:15:55):
Yeah. Don't say that. Cause you will do it youll. Right? Okay. Yep. So hallelujah. I can finally use teams on my well I could always <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:16:07):
No, you always, it doesn't really
Leo Laporte (01:16:09):
Change. I really was looking for reasons not, oh,
Paul Thurrott (01:16:10):
Another way to get
Leo Laporte (01:16:11):
Teams. Another way.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:13):
Another way to wonder which version the teams of
Leo Laporte (01:16:15):
Getting. And then when the M one first came out, I think a lot of us were like, oh, I don't want to Sully my pure M one. That's right. With any Intel code.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:25):
<Laugh> geez. Wow. Well, except for one thing, you're gonna get life, you know, life has to go on and you're gonna get work done. Yeah. Although it's getting easier. I would say today. I mean, oh
Leo Laporte (01:16:33):
Yeah. And now I don't care. That's the irony, right? It's easy now cuz almost everything's in one compatible.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:40):
I mean, Leo, I coming from the windows world, we know exactly what you're talking about. Windows and arm is awesome and it runs everything. So
Leo Laporte (01:16:45):
It's great for, oh Lord.
Paul Thurrott (01:16:47):
It's like you've gone from a, a country back road to a super highway with no cars on it.
Leo Laporte (01:16:52):
Paul Thurrott (01:16:53):
Is the fantasy world that I live in and I wish, I wish it was like that
Mary Jo Foley (01:16:58):
Other people did too. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:17:00):
How about an update on HoloLens? We haven't done that in a while. Is
Paul Thurrott (01:17:04):
That oh, I forgot about HoloLens <laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:17:07):
Yeah, really? Did you
Paul Thurrott (01:17:09):
There's been a lot of good news for HoloLens this year. <Laugh> one of them was an internal Microsoft email link. I think the business insider. If I remember correctly, that basically said, you know, we're gonna get a lot of negative feedback on this thing from
Leo Laporte (01:17:22):
You. I saw that. I saw that it's
Paul Thurrott (01:17:24):
Not gonna go well
Leo Laporte (01:17:24):
Pre pre-warning you know, kind of lowering expect of time.
Paul Thurrott (01:17:30):
Oh, well they haven't been lowered enough because the us Pentagon <laugh> has examined this waste of money and determined that there was a chance it could re end up wasting up to 21.8, 8 billion in taxpayer funds. What
Leo Laporte (01:17:44):
Paul Thurrott (01:17:45):
Field. Yep. Filling a system that soldiers do not want to use or does not work is intended.
Leo Laporte (01:17:49):
Paul Thurrott (01:17:51):
So now that's a worst case scenario. It may only waste, you know, 10 billion. I mean, I wouldn't, you know, lose like sleep over this yet. But look
Leo Laporte (01:18:03):
Is a hundred. Billion's
Mary Jo Foley (01:18:04):
Leo Laporte (01:18:05):
Oh no. What is the contract worth?
Mary Jo Foley (01:18:07):
I think it's 22 billion,
Leo Laporte (01:18:08):
Right? So there's saying the whole thing
Mary Jo Foley (01:18:11):
Over 10 years
Leo Laporte (01:18:13):
Utter waste. It's an utter waste. Maybe
Paul Thurrott (01:18:16):
I'm so as I joked on TWiTtter today, it's not just a waste of time. It's also a waste of money. So I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. I've never understood this. And Microsoft says
Leo Laporte (01:18:28):
It was, it was a $22 billion contract. That's hysterical,
Paul Thurrott (01:18:32):
Transformational platform. Leo.
Leo Laporte (01:18:34):
So what of the 21.8 billion wasted that leaves 200 million it was spent. Well,
Paul Thurrott (01:18:40):
Yeah, you're right. Cuz actually, as it turns out, there's always like one or 2% of people that love this.
Leo Laporte (01:18:45):
There's some soldier out there. There is great.
Paul Thurrott (01:18:47):
Just running around in a circle, blowing up imaginary enemies is not, I love
Leo Laporte (01:18:51):
It. <Laugh> hysterical. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:18:56):
This is, this is I think, I think it's gonna be really interesting to watch how Microsoft positions HoloLens moving forward, which my guess is just for industrial use, right? Yeah. And yeah. Well
Paul Thurrott (01:19:11):
It's been successful in those markets.
Mary Jo Foley (01:19:13):
It has like they've done well with it in like retail and, and healthcare. They've got markets where it's made inroads, but it's not gonna be a general purpose platform. It's not gonna be, at least as it stands now gonna be big in the military. I mean, I, I kind of would guess this is the end of them trying to sell anything like this into the military.
Leo Laporte (01:19:33):
I think such and Adela may get his day in Congress if he keeps this up. Yeah. I mean, aren't they gonna, isn't Congress gonna say, Hey, you know, what happened? Why did we spend money?
Mary Jo Foley (01:19:44):
Or did they just junk the contract and say, was gonna say
Paul Thurrott (01:19:47):
Crash the check guys. I
Leo Laporte (01:19:49):
Oh, since it is over 10 years, it's really only wasting 2.18 billion a year. That's
Paul Thurrott (01:19:56):
Three or four toilets, no deal,
Leo Laporte (01:19:58):
Big deals, nothing, nothing.
Paul Thurrott (01:20:01):
It's not a big deal.
Leo Laporte (01:20:01):
Mary Jo Foley (01:20:02):
Yeah. But you know, you know, what's crazy. I keep looking at the job site and they're still hiring for AR VR, like MADD. So they still have plans. Oh. To do things in this space. Some of it in, in commercials, some of it may be in consumer. If that, if that rumor about them working with Samsung on a consumer device is true. Right. yeah. So they're not throwing in the towel. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:20:25):
Okay. I, I, I, it's hard to know what their plans are. I wouldn't be surprised it is to discover if this wasn't some combination of those rumors, which we sort of know to be true, where a bunch of those people have left and they need to be replaced. And this are, this contract is super important. So they may be hired just for this, you know, to yeah. To kind of solve the issues that the army is having and and make it more viable going forward. Yeah. You know, I don't know.
Leo Laporte (01:20:52):
Paul Thurrott (01:20:54):
It's hard to escape bad news like this though. It's tough.
Mary Jo Foley (01:20:58):
Leo Laporte (01:20:59):
The, one of the commenters on your site, Paul said that the army chief of staff is the guy who's really pushing this.
Paul Thurrott (01:21:06):
I thought you said one of the call am, which I of
Leo Laporte (01:21:08):
The way, describe not my Richie. The other one. <Laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:21:14):
Leo Laporte (01:21:15):
Commenters commenters. I'm sorry. My said that we getting soft.
Paul Thurrott (01:21:17):
It's okay. I got lot. You said commod. And my head started thinking about AMI
Leo Laporte (01:21:21):
<Laugh> God, God
Mary Jo Foley (01:21:23):
Paul Thurrott (01:21:25):
Sorry. One of the commenters, when I said, said,
Leo Laporte (01:21:26):
What said the army chief of staff is the, is, is the one in love with this
Mary Jo Foley (01:21:30):
One behind it?
Leo Laporte (01:21:31):
Paul Thurrott (01:21:31):
Okay. Well I think, look, I, in the government in general and I'm sure in the military as well, there is this understandable desire to modernize and, and latch onto new technology. And you know, we were kind of joking about how no sea level executive in any company, the right mind, whatever, watch a windows 11 out on TV and come back to work and direct, you know, it to get going on this as quick as possible. But I bet they fall for this kind of stuff. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and the gov, you know, the decision makers and these organizations are really no different. I mean, they have slightly different aim I guess, but they have a lot more money to work with too, in many cases. So I dunno
Leo Laporte (01:22:17):
Build his live, build his live
Paul Thurrott (01:22:21):
Leo Laporte (01:22:22):
Registration is live
Paul Thurrott (01:22:24):
Is gonna be cheaper than ever folks. It's so inexpensive now,
Leo Laporte (01:22:29):
Is it <affirmative>?
Paul Thurrott (01:22:30):
Yeah, because it's not
Leo Laporte (01:22:31):
Because you're not you don't condo. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:22:34):
<Laugh> yeah. But you know, it was kind of ironic yesterday when registration opened and PA and pastures, when build registration opens all you see on TWiTtter are people complaining about right.
Leo Laporte (01:22:46):
They can't get in
Mary Jo Foley (01:22:47):
Like crash, couldn't get a hotel couldn register. So yesterday I registered like really smoothly. And then the site couldn't be open the entire day. I'm like, okay guys, I don't know. It seems like, you know how to build these kind of platforms. You definitely some cloud expertise. And I like what is happening here <laugh> but it, you know, in the end it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because none of the sessions are up yet. That's not, nothing has been posted session wise. That's right. You could see who the speakers are from Microsoft and there's no surprises in that list. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> right. It's all the same people who
Paul Thurrott (01:23:24):
Speaker love a little surprise. Jeff Teer who Jeff. Teer Teer I, I was Teer yeah. His title, his official title is corporate vice president of teams one drive and SharePoint.
Mary Jo Foley (01:23:36):
Yes. It's been that for a while.
Paul Thurrott (01:23:38):
That's I never knew that that's very specific. Yep.
Mary Jo Foley (01:23:40):
It is very specific <laugh> yep. Yeah. You know, if you look at the speaker list you're you can kind of guess, like, we're gonna hear a lot about developer tools for the cloud. We're gonna hear a lot about AI. We're gonna hear about teams and teams as a development platform. I hope we hear about meta OS my infamous thing I keep talking about. Sure.
Paul Thurrott (01:24:03):
I hope we get more whales and lunar modules and other things like that. Oh
Mary Jo Foley (01:24:09):
Yeah. Oh yeah. They'll definitely be like the teams for mesh thing. Right. Which is those avatars no legs as we've talked about many a time.
Paul Thurrott (01:24:17):
So if you're interested in client development Kevin, Kevin
Mary Jo Foley (01:24:22):
Gallo. Yep. Which is good. At least he's there. Right? Yep. Amanda silver. That's a good point. Yeah. Amanda silver, visual studio and GitHub and all that stuff. Stuff. Yeah. She's
Paul Thurrott (01:24:31):
Fantastic actually. Yep. She
Mary Jo Foley (01:24:32):
Is. Yep. Yep. So, yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:24:36):
And when is the, this is may end of may. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:24:40):
May 24th, may 20 to sixth. Right.
Leo Laporte (01:24:44):
Paul Thurrott (01:24:46):
Good, good, good.
Leo Laporte (01:24:47):
Let's do a quick Xbox segment because Mary Jo. Yeah. Does, there's not enough beer in the world,
Mary Jo Foley (01:24:52):
<Laugh> it doesn't really
Paul Thurrott (01:24:55):
<Laugh> I'll get you yet.
Mary Jo Foley (01:24:57):
Paul Thurrott (01:24:59):
Yeah. So I mentioned this earlier, actually, so the M P D group had come out. They, they study a lot of things, but usage should else, et cetera. In the United States specifically. So according to them, March 20, 22 was a record month for Xbox hardware sales, also dollar sales. So unit and dollar sales beating the previous records from actually from March, 2011, go figure a long time ago and March, 2014 for revenue. And is, I believe I, I don't see this here, but I thought they were the best selling console. I believe they were the best selling console. I don't actually see that here, but I believe they were. And best selling. Yeah, no, it was yeah. Best selling hardware platform of March 20, 22. That's interesting. I, I think it's tied in part to the fact that the Xbox series acts in particular was actually available for sale. Like Leo got one, right? I mean yeah. Coincidence
Leo Laporte (01:25:54):
At Walmart. Yeah, yeah,
Paul Thurrott (01:25:55):
Yeah. So this, I don't know what happened, but there was a, a window of time a month or so where you could actually buy this thing for the first time. And I think that's what helped sure. That window apparently is closing. So if you want, oh, really for say the, yeah. The holidays this year, apparently we're gonna have more problems.
Leo Laporte (01:26:11):
Oh. Because of the shutdown in Shanghai
Paul Thurrott (01:26:13):
Because of the shutdown Shanghai. Exactly. Yep. Yep.
Leo Laporte (01:26:15):
Oh, wow. Yeah. Maybe that's why get that last. We
Paul Thurrott (01:26:18):
Had that little shining moment where like, Hey, we're back, it's normal.
Leo Laporte (01:26:21):
Paul Thurrott (01:26:22):
And yeah. That's the way the world goes. What was the other one?
Leo Laporte (01:26:28):
Paul Thurrott (01:26:30):
Sony. Yeah. So I think I linked to the wrong article. That's okay. I can tell you what the story is. So previously remember, I think it was last week, Sony and Nintendo had agreed to stop forcing people to all auto renew on subscriptions and the the EU. This is something that Microsoft had previously agreed to. So they're gonna be more transparent about that stuff. They're gonna send you reminders. Hey, you don't seem to be using this thing. You know, you're gonna pay for it again. Please. Don't but now Mike, what? Oh God, I've lost track of this here. Okay. <laugh> I'm trying to, I'm trying to find it on my website. I should have known that was <inaudible>. Let me just find the story. I'm sorry. Where is this thing? I have completely lost track of this story.
Leo Laporte (01:27:18):
Paul Thurrott (01:27:20):
I linked to the wrong thing in the notes and now I can't find the original.
Leo Laporte (01:27:23):
Paul Thurrott (01:27:25):
Let's just forget it. Sony's
Leo Laporte (01:27:27):
Sony's not copying Microsoft. It's a lot.
Paul Thurrott (01:27:29):
I don't find that story. Where is that story?
Leo Laporte (01:27:32):
What? Do you remember anything about it, Paul?
Paul Thurrott (01:27:34):
No, I think I just started talking about the other thing and I lost the thing I was talking about. Now I just, now I need to find it.
Leo Laporte (01:27:41):
Oh, welcome to Paul town. That,
Paul Thurrott (01:27:45):
Oh, I found it. Oh, so Microsoft previously revealed that they were looking for looking at adding ads inside of free to play games. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And now Sony is gonna do it. Tony is also, they haven't announced it, but they're working with partners to do the same thing.
Leo Laporte (01:27:59):
Well, chances are that the same game. Right. So gotta do it on both
Paul Thurrott (01:28:03):
Platforms. That's exactly right. Yeah. And that makes sense. And it's, I'm actually surprised this wasn't a thing
Leo Laporte (01:28:09):
Paul Thurrott (01:28:10):
Leo Laporte (01:28:11):
Well I was read somewhere. Somebody was talking about, it was one of our might have been in the TWiT forum or the Macedon how you can buy skins for Fortnite that are, you know, companies, you can buy Disney plus skis.
Paul Thurrott (01:28:29):
Yeah. You could look like a NASCAR race driver as you run around
Leo Laporte (01:28:32):
It it's which is a total advertisement and it doesn't bother anybody and you're people even pay for the right to wear the Disney, you know, Marvel it's
Paul Thurrott (01:28:42):
Is crazy, you know, but yeah, I'm okay with it. I'm I'm, I'm not a big fan of ads in general. Obviously we talk about this kind of
Leo Laporte (01:28:48):
Stuff. I don't want the game to stop so I can watch an ad and, you know, cause there's free to play games for,
Paul Thurrott (01:28:53):
I feel like ads could be distracting. You're running around you're you're, you know, blasting enemies and stuff. And you're like, was that an ad for McDonald's?
Leo Laporte (01:29:00):
Paul Thurrott (01:29:01):
Like what what's that
Leo Laporte (01:29:01):
We're sewing you into that we've done that, you know, that they're everywhere. Ads are everywhere on every surface,
Paul Thurrott (01:29:06):
But the game is free to play.
Leo Laporte (01:29:07):
So watch a formula, one race, cuz they can't stop to do an ad. So it's just one continuous ad. Right? That's right. Every turn, every, you know, everywhere there's stuff on the walls, air, all the suit, look at the suits, they got 800 logos on them. Yeah, exactly. Actually an interesting somebody noted this and I don't know,
Paul Thurrott (01:29:27):
We're not wearing logos. Is that a thing?
Leo Laporte (01:29:29):
It's the new TWiT plan. We're gonna have your TWiT blazer in the mail any minute. Now what
Mary Jo Foley (01:29:34):
About tattoos? Twit tattoos. Sure.
Leo Laporte (01:29:36):
<Laugh> sure for the right price, I'll tattoo a McDonald's arch on my hand. I, I don't care. For, and I don't know if this means anything. I just saw somebody in passing note the on F1. I think it was the, was it the Mercedes car had an AMD logo and for the race on Sunday it was gone.
Paul Thurrott (01:30:00):
Leo Laporte (01:30:01):
Which does not usually usually you sign for the whole season. Yep. Yep. You know, and, and there's a lot of tech, you know, crowds strikes all, there are a lot cities. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, there's a lot of tech companies on these. But for some reason the AMD logo disappeared. So I'm curious what that,
Paul Thurrott (01:30:14):
I just wanna point out this me forgetting that, not finding the story is a rare example of my critical nature biting me into the, but
Leo Laporte (01:30:22):
Paul Thurrott (01:30:23):
Instead, instead of just putting the title in the, in the story, which would've made me know exactly what it was, I made a joke out of it and I wrote Sony can't stop copying Xbox. And so you just bit me, <laugh> all I had to do was write the title of the story. I would've been like, I know exactly what this is. And instead I'm looking at it, like, why is it story about teams loading
Leo Laporte (01:30:41):
Paul Thurrott (01:30:43):
Yep. So that, you know, rare, a rare moment of comeuppance.
Leo Laporte (01:30:46):
Mary Jo Foley (01:30:48):
That's what happens. Rare,
Leo Laporte (01:30:49):
Rare. A rare moment of upcomings
Paul Thurrott (01:30:53):
Usually being sarcastic, just works out.
Mary Jo Foley (01:30:55):
Yeah. Always <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:30:57):
Leo Laporte (01:30:57):
Know what could but possibly go wrong. Yeah. All right. We are we have the back of the book just around the corner in which we are going to hear Paul attempt to pronounce clip champ, which will be
Paul Thurrott (01:31:09):
Leo Laporte (01:31:09):
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Leo Laporte (01:33:10):
Continuous purple teaming assessment. You can begin purple teaming or power up your current strategy with runbooks the best in industry tool for test plan execution. Really, this is a tool the team will want to use. The execs will love. The boss will love, and it's just gonna Plex. Track's just gonna improve your entire security engagement life cycle. By making it easy to generate security reports, to deliver them securely, to track the issues to completion straight from the platform. So security teams of all sizes and maturities can maximize eyes efficiency and effectiveness. I want you to try it. Book a demo today, learn more about Plex track and how it could support proactive security work in your organization. Cuz you know what? You gotta be proactive. You can't be reactive in security these days, try Plex track free for one month. See how it can change your life. As a security professional, all to do is go to Plex track.com/TWiT claim that free month P L E X T R a.com/TWiTt. W I T we thank Plex track so much for their support Plex track.com/TWiT. You support us when you use that URL. So please do that. The purple teaming platform, Plex track Paul Thurrott with your yep. Tip
Paul Thurrott (01:34:29):
Of the week, the latest fan of clip champ, clip champ, the Microsoft video at ex here's the thing I think we all kind of made fun of this when Microsoft announced bought it, purchasing it, they bought fact the thing, the first thing we asked was what's a clip champ. Never heard of it, right. <Laugh> and of course, you know, for people like who've been around a while and have used windows movie maker back in the day, super disappointing the video editing tools that are built into windows today, if you go to the photos app, there's actually a VI, a really basic video editor built in that is really just designed. You can throw photos and it turns into slideshow. You can, you know, add a title and some music, really basic stuff. I have been working on some video project stuff in recent weeks.
Paul Thurrott (01:35:14):
And as I've been experimenting with all, all kinds of different video editors and, you know, I mention, I think fact, I think two, three weeks ago I recommended a free product called shot, which is actually very good. I mentioned that if you're on a Mac, you should just use IMO. My movie's amazing. And lately I've been using Adobe Photoshop, I'm sorry. Adobe premier elements. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, you know, full featured, like DaVinci resolve is another kind of thing like that, where you know, if you don't know what you're doing, it is a little bit of a leap, you know, to get into it. But once you figure out what's going on, it's, it's, you know, it's full feature and I, I don't know what occur just occurred to me the day like, Hey, Microsoft has this thing. I should see. I should see how it works.
Paul Thurrott (01:35:55):
And I'm thinking, I know how this is gonna end up. This is gonna be hilarious because it's not gonna be able to do any of the things I can do in Adobe photo. Sorry, premier elements. So some of the things I would want to do for example is like, not just like basic titles, but like you create titles of your own and say Photoshop or in affinity photo with transparencies. You have like, if you putting a video on YouTube, you want that little thing that comes up and tells you to subscribe or you, you know, different audio tracks. And some of those things required like green screen, like green keying there's no way this very basic tool is never gonna do any of that. And so I recreated a video. I it's the same video I've been creating in every solution.
Paul Thurrott (01:36:32):
Cause I want to get a, kind of a handle of how this works. This is like multiple clips, really simple transitions music transition, you know, I'm sorry, different titling that I created myself and I, it did everything <laugh> like, it actually worked great. Did you may remember use templates at all? No. No. So here's the thing. So when Microsoft bought clip champ, this was a subscription service, right? They have three tier. You, you can pay for it. There's a free version, but you can pay. And when you pay, you get extra stuff, like you get the ability to store your videos in their cloud. You get the ability to get gain access to their stock images, stock videos, stock music they have. And then they have all those extra things like titles and templates and themes and all kinds of stuff.
Paul Thurrott (01:37:19):
I was just really, this actually worked, oh, I'm sorry. The thing I was getting to there was in the beginning you had to pay to get seven 20 P or 10 80 P output. Oh. To get 10 80 P was 1999 a month. Oh, forget it. And so, yeah, so like many people, I was like, no, <laugh> like, this is, that just makes this, I don't care how good this is. Forget it. But mic it's Microsoft. Right. So they dropped all that. They still offer the tiers, but the quality of the output is not one of the options. So you can still put in 10 pay for it. Yes. Okay. I'm not paying for it <laugh> but I will say I was pleasantly surprised. It literally did every single thing I needed it to do that. I thought I would re you know, have to use a full feature tool, like DaVinci resolve or premier elements. I, I, I was shocked, nice that it was able to do this stuff nice.
Leo Laporte (01:38:12):
Well, they needed that because they had it compete with the iMovie and
Paul Thurrott (01:38:17):
I, I think, yes. So I think the consensus out there is that this thing is not full featured. It's not as good as MovieMaker used to be. I, I think what I'm trying to say is actually this is better than movie better.
Leo Laporte (01:38:28):
It was. Yeah. Well, it's more the thing. I mean, you could do things like streaming and stuff. Yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:38:33):
Yep. The only thing it's missing I would say is you can't go above 10 ADP. You couldn't even pay to do that. So if you're doing 4k, you can't use this click on, if you're using 4k video, you're using
Paul Thurrott (01:38:42):
A free B tool, like a clip champ clip champ. Yes. the version that's in the store, the version that is included with when there's 11 is this is the same version that's on the web. It's just packaged as an app. It's there's no difference. It works great. It's I <laugh>, I can't, I still can't believe how good this thing is. Like, I, I thought so little of this, I almost completely ignored it. And then I thought, you know, I've been playing around with this video stuff. I should just look now now's the time. And I was like, wow, this actually is, I'm like, it's not gonna do the green screen. No, it does the green screen. Wow. It's not gonna let me do multiple like levels of video on top of Nope. It does that
Leo Laporte (01:39:16):
Too. And this is always free the free level.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:20):
Yep. It's built right into windows.
Leo Laporte (01:39:21):
Nice. Yeah. It's nice. Very good.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:23):
Leo Laporte (01:39:24):
Windows 10 and 11 now.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:26):
10 and 11. Yep. I believe it's built 10, but it's not, you get it in the store. It runs the windows 10 and you, and whatever you could use Linnux it's in the web. You, anyone could use it.
Leo Laporte (01:39:35):
Oh, it's web big.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:37):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a web app.
Leo Laporte (01:39:38):
Oh, interesting. I
Paul Thurrott (01:39:40):
Know. Oh, it's crazy. It works
Leo Laporte (01:39:41):
Really. So you can do it on a Chromebook.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:43):
I believe so. I dunno, but I would think so. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:39:46):
I think so. Oh, that's really interesting. Oh yeah.
Paul Thurrott (01:39:49):
It's good. It's surprisingly good. And like, you know, I there's, it there's all this other functional you mentioned templates. Like I don't really, I didn't do any of the stuff, but obviously it does its own titling. It does. It does all, you know, different transitions, different effects all kinds of stuff is built into it. It's it's really worth looking at. I, like I said, pleasantly surprised. The, I kind of reversed the app on the tip this week because the tip is related to those other assets, the things you might wanna do, cuz you can all a lot of the effects and the transitions and ti that's all built in it's free. But if you want to have access to like stock images, stock video music, you actually have to pay clip champ. But I, I actually think the, the prices there charging are a little on the expensive side.
Paul Thurrott (01:40:34):
And I would say, even if you're like, this is it, I'm using this thing. I love it. I would say. Yeah. Okay. But there are other sources of those assets online. You can just Google it obviously. But I use pixel bay for example to find like one of those YouTube subscribe to my site, animations that kind of comes up to the bottom a little, you know, thing, clicks the buttons and goes away. You know, Canva is a great resource for this kind of stuff. Adobe has a free version of creative cloud that lets you make all kinds of stuff, including you know, titling and stuff for YouTube. I should definitely look at that. That's incredible. Yeah. and then YouTube if you, you know, if you're gonna upload to YouTube, go into theirs studio section, they have an incredible collection of free music that is freely licensed. You can use it for anything. And it's astonishing. Like it's a really nice collection of music. And the song I used in the video is from, is from YouTube. So there's a lot out there. You don't have to play clip, jump. You can get all that stuff from somewhere else is my point.
Leo Laporte (01:41:35):
That is the app. And the tip all rolled up into one
Paul Thurrott (01:41:39):
Paul in one. Yep.
Leo Laporte (01:41:40):
Now Mary Jo Foley with her enterprise pick of the week.
Mary Jo Foley (01:41:45):
Right? So back at the start of the pandemic, Microsoft announced something that they called, let me get this right. It's not as hard as clip champ, but it's called the monthly enterprise channel for Microsoft 365 apps. So Microsoft 365 apps are the apps you can download when you have a business subscription to Microsoft 365 office 365. So you know how you can download PowerPoint, Excel word. A lot of people who do this through their businesses, they don't wanna get the, all the new features constantly. They like having them like once every six months get new features, but Microsoft doesn't want you to do that. Right? They want you to update all the time because they claim, they have stats showing that people who are using the latest and greatest version of the apps are happier than the people not doing that. So what they're starting to do now is go to some business accounts.
Mary Jo Foley (01:42:45):
And if you have a Microsoft 365 admin center, you should check. If you're an admin, you may see a note in there that says, by the way, unless you take action in may, you're, we're gonna start making you go monthly automatically, unless you block this. So if you've been somebody who's been the administrator for your organization and you're like, oh yeah, every six months we get an update to word Excel, PowerPoint. That's great. If you have that message in your center and you don't take action by may, you may start getting the updates every month on patch Tuesday to these apps. If you don't want that to happen again, you can go in and have steps that you can follow to block this from happening. But I have the feeling, some people aren't gonna notice this in their admin center. And some their users are starting to get monthly updates to all their office apps and they may not like that. So make sure you check your admin center if you're an admin. And if you see the note about this take action, if, or don't, if you're okay with getting monthly updates is again, this is, this is no, this does not apply to every organization. It seems like they're rolling this out in stages. So if you don't see a note about this happening in may, don't worry. Maybe you'll see it in June. Maybe you'll see it in July, but if you do, you need to take action a P
Leo Laporte (01:44:13):
All right. Buzzword time.
Mary Jo Foley (01:44:17):
<Laugh> yeah. So we haven't talked enough about earning yet earnings yet. But I think it's always interesting when you listen to these earnings calls or Microsoft to listen to buzzwords that come up a lot. Oh
Leo Laporte (01:44:29):
My God. Business buzzwords. Oh my, my God. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:44:32):
And sometimes they're hints too. Right? When Satya dwells on something or throws a certain buzzword out multiple times, you're like, oh, they must be about to he's company here. Right. Or announce something. Right. So I'm taking these buzzword
Leo Laporte (01:44:45):
Mary Jo Foley (01:44:46):
Fabric, bucket of fabric, right. He kept using the word fabric during the Colia in a couple different ways. He, he talked about data fabric and distributed fabric. So at, at the very start of the call, Satya, like, you know, everybody else wants to hear about cloud. They wanna hear about windows Xbox. He's like, you know what? Let's talk about data and AI things that everybody's like, oh no, really are we gonna talk about, let's
Leo Laporte (01:45:09):
Be great at parties. You know
Mary Jo Foley (01:45:10):
<Laugh> but this is his wheelhouse, right? Satya is all about this because this, this is the organization he came from before he became CEO. So he talked a lot about the idea that Microsoft has a differentiated data fabric. And he, he talked about how we have things like Azure synapse. We have things that integrate our compliance with that and teams. And so I think my guess is we're gonna see some kind of new bundle of something like around the data platform maybe announced at build maybe later, but they're, they're definitely, they've got something up their sleeve in the data space, for sure, because of the constant referrals to of fabric and distributed data. Another word he, another term that they used on this call was industrial metaverse. So they've talked about metaverse at Microsoft in a lot of different ways but the idea of industrial metaverse where it refers to things like digital TWiTns are doing with the HoloLens in the commercial space.
Mary Jo Foley (01:46:16):
Those kinds of projects that seems to be something else that's very much on his mind. So I bet at build, we're gonna hear that phrase, industrial metaverse quite a bit and one other one I'd call out is collaborative applications. So this is something that the teams team at Microsoft has to talked about in the past. It's it's the idea of not, not just integrating applications, but by integrating them, you create something that's bigger than the whole kind of SL slightly different, more tailored, not just like take teams and integrate it with synapse, but it turns into something else. So if you, if you wanna find some of these buzzwords for yourself, it's fun to go through the transcript of the earnings call and anybody can get this on the Microsoft site. If you go to microsoft.com/investor, and you look there, you can get the full transcript and, and the PowerPoint slides, all the stuff we use, cover the call and even the, the recording of the call itself. Anybody can go get those, listen to it's. Yeah. And check out all these kind of like little, little tidbits, hints and tips of things that might be coming.
Leo Laporte (01:47:22):
I think that's a really good point. You, you can tell what do you think it's conscious on his part or he's just it's on his mind. And so he's saying it, or is he sneaking these in think?
Mary Jo Foley (01:47:32):
No, I think what happens is he's, he's seeing reviews of, of slides and presentations that Microsoft has coming up and his team has said to him, Satya, don't drop this on the call. Like we're trying to make this no
Paul Thurrott (01:47:44):
Damn dropping. Right.
Mary Jo Foley (01:47:46):
And so it's still in his mind. So he's saying these freezes, right?
Leo Laporte (01:47:50):
Yeah. Whatever you do. Don't think CLO fabric don't think thought fabric.
Mary Jo Foley (01:47:53):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's my guess. I like
Paul Thurrott (01:47:55):
That. You, I, one
Mary Jo Foley (01:47:56):
Of those Haws and they're going no, no, <laugh>
Paul Thurrott (01:48:02):
No, the very first, one of the very first things he said was he described Azure, right front as a distributed fabric dis fabric. And I was like, wait, what? I literally quoted it. I was like, this is, he's
Leo Laporte (01:48:12):
Not what? Reading something. He's adlibbing you think? Oh,
Paul Thurrott (01:48:15):
No, he's he's reading
Leo Laporte (01:48:16):
Paul Thurrott (01:48:16):
Definitely reading. Oh, okay.
Mary Jo Foley (01:48:18):
Yeah. But, but it's words that the, the PR team is like, okay, you can say that, but don't say what we're gonna announce a build. Right.
Leo Laporte (01:48:25):
Paul Thurrott (01:48:26):
Which is say that much distributed fabric, 20, 23. Exactly.
Mary Jo Foley (01:48:31):
Leo Laporte (01:48:31):
Perhaps. You've been hearing about it. Well,
Paul Thurrott (01:48:34):
That's, I don't, you've never heard this term before. I would imagine.
Leo Laporte (01:48:36):
<Laugh> All right. After all this, I think I could use a beer. What do you got for me?
Mary Jo Foley (01:48:43):
All right. So back when I started doing beer picks on does weekly years ago, when I was a young craft beer as woman, One of my first picks was a beer that got me in some hot water. I don't know if you guys remember this. It was called Gandhi bought. And it was a beer from new England brewing and had a picture of Gandhi on the label, turned into a robot. And I get like some nasty notes. Listeners
Leo Laporte (01:49:10):
Mary Jo Foley (01:49:11):
Yeah. They did not like that. Yeah. At all. Yeah. Wow. Well, it, it turns out the company making the beer, new England brewing out of Connecticut, heard these complaints as well. So they changed the name of the SP to GBO,
Paul Thurrott (01:49:25):
To Mohamed bought
Leo Laporte (01:49:27):
No, no G
Mary Jo Foley (01:49:30):
Bought. Right? Yeah. And I, I get to, I get to retry this just this past week. And I remember when I first had it, I thought this was like the best beer I ever had. And my, the reason I made it at the beer pick again this week is how it's a good example of how your, how tastes and trends affect what we like. And don't like,
Leo Laporte (01:49:51):
IPA is a trend. My
Mary Jo Foley (01:49:53):
God. Yeah. Well, this IPA, when I had it, I'm like, oh, I love it. It's like, so bitter it's so Piney. And then the, the way people make IPAs on, on our side of the continent, you know, which are called the way and IPAs, they went completely away from that. Get away from the pine, get away from the ness, made them hazy and like more fruity. Right. And so now when you drink this beer, it's just so like foreign, it's just like, wow. I used to like that, you know, like interesting. Okay. It's still good. You could tell it's a quality beer. Well, made delicious for people who like that style, but it was fun to go back after, like, I, I think this was probably like six or seven years ago that I made the beer pick and have it again. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:50:37):
Paul Thurrott (01:50:37):
Interesting. I don't remember that. That's funny.
Mary Jo Foley (01:50:39):
Yeah. Oh, it was very like, I get hate mail from people about it.
Leo Laporte (01:50:43):
Wow. I didn't, what was, I
Mary Jo Foley (01:50:44):
Was like, maybe I shouldn't do the beer pig. I don't know.
Paul Thurrott (01:50:47):
And was depicted on the board.
Mary Jo Foley (01:50:49):
Yeah. Yeah. They were like, this was, this was a religious disre, an honored, right. It, people were like, I can't believe you made that the beer pick that's so disrespectful. And I was like, oh, Hmm, okay.
Paul Thurrott (01:50:59):
Alone. That sounds inclusive to me. But what do I
Leo Laporte (01:51:02):
Learn? GHI is a robot. I don't know.
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:05):
Now he's a,
Paul Thurrott (01:51:05):
I thought you, as it turns out, Gandhi is a robot. We just
Leo Laporte (01:51:08):
No. See, see, now you're just digging in.
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:11):
No, you are. You're gonna get me in trouble all over again, man.
Paul Thurrott (01:51:14):
I dunno why you hate founding Mary trust?
Leo Laporte (01:51:16):
No, I GBO. I
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:19):
Hate consumers has
Leo Laporte (01:51:20):
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:20):
Do with Gandhi guesses. Cause that's
Paul Thurrott (01:51:22):
Right. To the consumers. Yeah. Also anyone who plays games. Yeah.
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:24):
Right. Also games. Yeah. Yeah,
Leo Laporte (01:51:27):
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:27):
I hate fun. I hate fun. Basically. No
Leo Laporte (01:51:29):
Fun. Well then you're not allowed on our TWiT cruise, but if you like fun
Mary Jo Foley (01:51:35):
Leo Laporte (01:51:35):
And you'll go on the next one. Mary Jo cruise.Twit.tv. We have a few places left. Paul Thurrott Stephanie Thurrott Leo and Lisa LePort will be on it. And it's gonna be just a great time. As we sail to Alaska perfect time of year to do it. July 16th through the 23rd, we get to see the glaciers or what's left of them. Bears. Oters bald Eagles salmon. It's gonna be fun. And a lot of windows talk, I have a feeling you might, even if I get lucky, you see my Dell laptop, more information, cruise dot TWiTt TV. We have a cruise channel in our discord, but now I have to say the discord is for club TWiT members. So spend a little extra another seven bucks a month in join club, TWiT you'll get ad free versions of all of our shows, access to the discord, which is full of great conversations about all kinds of topics.
Leo Laporte (01:52:29):
In fact, let me me just see what we've got. I think we've got four events now, our community manager aunt Pruitt's been busy, so we've got an inside TWiT with one of our editors. We've we've started editing behind or interviewing behind the scenes folks. So you can get to know the people who make TWiT it, that don't get all the credit, but deserve it. John Ashley that's coming up tomorrow. Scott Wilkinson home theater geek May 5th, Robert baller, the digital Jesuit May 12th. And of course Stacy's book club was a, is a monthly event with Stacy Higginbotham this month's book termination shock by Neil Stevenson. There's the untitled Linux show. There's the GI fizz. There's all sorts of stuff going on in the discord. And then there's the TWiT plus feed, which we'll have all of this plus shows. We are trying out. One of the advantages of having, you know, paid memberships is we can do stuff that doesn't have advertising.
Leo Laporte (01:53:23):
So it gives us a chance to experiment. That's a, how we launched this week in space. We've got another show coming soon. We're very excited about what's going on in club TWiT and we'd love you to join. And of course the side benefit is it helps us keep the lights on in a very, I have to say uncertain advertising environment. It has really been up and down for the last few years for more information, TWiT.tv/club TWiT, Paul Thra email@example.com. That's his blog. He also writes books, kind of an old fashioned idea. He's an Antiqua <laugh> he? His latest,
Paul Thurrott (01:53:59):
I am. I'm looking at modernizing the next one, so, oh, we'll get to that soon. We'll get to that.
Leo Laporte (01:54:04):
His latest, the field guy to win is 10 firstname.lastname@example.org. I highly recommended Mary Jo Foley. Is it all about microsoft.com and together they are the dynamic duo of windows dozers, or for short windows dozers <laugh> You can join them every Wednesday. 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM E Eastern time, 1800 UTC right here at TWiT live.Twit.tv. After the fact we've got on demand versions of the show at the website, TWiT.tv/ww, there's a YouTube channel. Of course you can subscribe in your favorite podcast client too. I encourage you to do so. My friends, my dozers have a wonderful week. We'll see you next time on windows weekly. Bye bye.