Windows Weekly Episode 758 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for Windows Weekly, Paul Thurrott is here, Mary Jo Foley. They didn't go to CES, but there were a lot of CES announcement. We'll talk about some of the new PCs and processors then about phones, lots to say there. Mary Jo is very unhappy with her pixel 6 pro Paul says I'm using an iPhone. What? And some Xbox news plus a chance for you to ask your questions. It's all coming up next on Windows Weekly podcasts you love

... (00:00:30):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:33):
This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley episode 758 recorded Wednesday, January 5th, 2022, and encyclopedia of chipsets.

... (00:00:51):
Thanks for listening to TWiT podcasts. If you'd like to take it up a notch, you can get all of our shows without ads by joining club TWiT, whether you're a loyal fan or once to give your employee something special with our corporate plan, you'll get the bonus TWI plus feed with extra behind the scenes, outtakes and access to a member's only Discord all for just seven bucks a month. It's a great way to get just the content support TWiT TV and be a part of the tech community. Learn more and join Club TWiT at twit.tv/clubtwit.

Leo Laporte (00:01:24):
It's time for Windows Weekly. The first show of the new year, happy new year to Mary Jo Foley all about microsoft.com. Happy new year. Mary Jo. Thank you. Did you celebrate with champagne or beer? <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:01:37):
Both, both

Leo Laporte (00:01:40):
Mixing it up. Mix mixing it up was probably doing a cocktail from the Stephanie THRT cocktail. I think I celebrated with every form of alcohol and I had a terrible next day. <Laugh> new year's day is designed for one thing, watching the rose parade in, in 18 football games, 18 college football games and nursing and hangover nursing, a hangover Paul throt throt.com. It's good to see you go in the saddle. We had a best of last week. I hope everybody enjoyed that trip back through memory lane. Now it's time to look forward. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and we're not at CES <laugh> no, we're not. Luckily,

Mary Jo Foley (00:02:19):
Luckily, yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:02:21):
I, I say that every year, but this year especi I'm grateful. Agreed. Yep. Father Robert went 

Mary Jo Foley (00:02:27):
I can't believe he went. Yeah, I'm just

Leo Laporte (00:02:29):
Stunned. I, I have to give this world's credit for finding a way to make Vegas even more terrible. <Laugh> yeah. Yeah. Why not? You know, add a plague, add a pandemic, right? Exactly. Yeah. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:02:42):
Yeah, it's good. But lot of people went like, I, I keep seeing people in my Twitter stream saying I'm there I'm I went and I decided

Leo Laporte (00:02:51):
To go. Yeah, great. Yeah, father Robert, I got to touch some things that other people touched. He's smart. <Laugh> wow.

Paul Thurrott (00:02:59):
I dunno.

Leo Laporte (00:03:01):
Yeah, I don't, I don't feel, I think this more than ever. I feel like there's nothing at CES. I need to know a lot of big C companies just punted. Yeah. And then Microsoft some did events, but like virtual events, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah,

Paul Thurrott (00:03:15):
That's fine. Did are they enforcing like mask set this place? I hope,

Leo Laporte (00:03:20):
I think they said you have to be vaccinated, but as we know that that's not gonna prevent mm-hmm breakout infections or it spread it. No. No.

Mary Jo Foley (00:03:29):
All right. I dunno if you guys watched new year's Eve from New York, but they supposedly enforce masks at that. And I didn't see every single person I saw was not wearing a mask

Paul Thurrott (00:03:38):
<Laugh> it was no, I thought there was a lot of mask wearing, but it was a much smaller event for sure. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:03:44):
Honestly, but if you looked past like the first block, there was nobody,

Paul Thurrott (00:03:47):
It was, but that show, all those shows are so terrible. Now we kept switching channels and not, not that they were great in the eighties or something, but I mean, they so much less interesting than they used to be. And, and so devoid of talented people <laugh>, you know, right. Like I wish there was something decent to watch on new year's Eve. Yeah. I needed a new tradition of some kind. I dunno.

Leo Laporte (00:04:10):
Well,

Paul Thurrott (00:04:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:15):
But there is some stuff we cared about at a C were actually more

Leo Laporte (00:04:19):
Than I thought a lot of PC stuff, right? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:04:23):
There is, there is a lot of PC stuff. That's true.

Leo Laporte (00:04:25):
Intel announced that they have the fastest laptop chip out there. If you don't mind a little, you know, heat lamp in

Paul Thurrott (00:04:33):
Your strum and drawing. Yeah. It's yeah. Yeah. It's a muscle car. <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:40):
It's a new letter. Isn't it? Some new letter series

Leo Laporte (00:04:43):
I know, or something, but is it is it what's new about it? Is it I think it's,

Paul Thurrott (00:04:48):
Is it Scally what's new about it? So it's, it's this big little architecture. So it has performance scores and efficiency course. Yes, that's right. We're starting to see that. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. It's 12th gens. We're bringing the gen to mobile and we're also expanding the availability of 12th gen ships across desktop. There are new classes of desktop chips comes coming. I have a hard, I thought last year we got rid of use series. If you look at all the, no, the naming schemes that Intel use for 11th gen it's use series is gone. And they said, no, we get more use series coming this year. Those were

Leo Laporte (00:05:21):
Just to, just to refresh my memory. Those are the crappy

Paul Thurrott (00:05:24):
Ones. Well, no, those are the mainstream ones that are on like you, you for ultra. No, no, it's okay. Like most people, if they, if you say, what kind of chip do you have in your computer? I have an Intel chip. What they mean is a, a youer core, a

Leo Laporte (00:05:38):
CPU. You know what I hear from a lot of people, I have an Evo cuz they've been advertised. People

Paul Thurrott (00:05:43):
Actually say that. Wow.

Leo Laporte (00:05:44):
Yeah. All right. Well cuz of the ads. Oh yeah, I got the Evo, but that's not, that's just a marketing term for a platform. Right. It's not,

Paul Thurrott (00:05:51):
Well, you know what though? That's interesting because an Evo PC is 20, 21 and newer. Yeah. For the most part. Yeah. Or very late 20, 20 11th gen or newer. So I mean, what they're basically communicating

Leo Laporte (00:06:03):
Is yeah, it's

Mary Jo Foley (00:06:04):
A set of specs. Right?

Paul Thurrott (00:06:05):
That's what it really is. It's yeah. It's a promise is what I would call it. It's a yeah. Intel is certifying that this, this PC meets certain technological bars. One of which by the way, is supposed to be nine hours of real world, better life or more. And I will say in my testing of Intel based PCs this past year, that figure was only met two or three times. Yeah. Battery life

Leo Laporte (00:06:27):
Is really the big and I guess that's battery. Life is tough. You know, when they say we're faster than an apple, M one that's totally doable, many desktop. Sorry. But the pace

Paul Thurrott (00:06:37):
Faster mean though you dropped it out of a window and it fell faster. Like what is,

Leo Laporte (00:06:42):
But it gets hot and you use a lot of power and the thermals and laptops mean it probably won't be fast for very long and on and on and on. Sure, sure.

Paul Thurrott (00:06:49):
So those no need these little, every year, look, the things you have to deal with are this is the first ever Ultrabook Chromebook level ball, whatever it is that does something mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know? Yeah. And great <laugh>, you know, and that's always, and there's a bunch of that stuff by the way, this week. But yes, I mean, Intel is obviously smarting from the PR hit that came with the M one stuff mm-hmm <affirmative> and I think collectively as an industry, we should celebrate anything they do to try to counter that.

Leo Laporte (00:07:18):
Oh yeah. Competition's great. Yeah. Yep. But

Paul Thurrott (00:07:21):
Yeah. You know, so they

Leo Laporte (00:07:23):
Have, they announced the third generation Evo, right? Oh, Evo <laugh> Evo to you. Yeah. and that's the along with the 12th generation Alder lakes. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Project. And then third edition specification target highlights, instant wake, incredible performance and responsiveness. I'm looking at these slide, as you might guess from their presentation intelligence built across all platform levels, battery life for the real world. No number there just for the real

Paul Thurrott (00:08:01):
World. It's nine, nine

Leo Laporte (00:08:02):
Hours is the lightning fast connectivity and

Paul Thurrott (00:08:06):
Innovative so's Thunderbolt force. Well USB before. Cause it's Intel

Leo Laporte (00:08:09):
And six E which just got a

Paul Thurrott (00:08:11):
Six wireless that's right. Green, green lit

Leo Laporte (00:08:12):
By the courts. Yep. Okay. And then innovative and engaging form factor.

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:22):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:23):
That's so isn't up to the eye of the beholder, <laugh> it?

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:26):
But it wasn't the new foldable thing they announced at the show part of Evo also, or am I mixing up two separate things?

Paul Thurrott (00:08:34):
<Laugh> I'm not sure, but there was a there's no reason. Yeah. There's no reason. Foldables, can't be Evo PCs, right. They could have right. Those 12th gen processors, U series, probably nine hours to better life, wifi, 60, et cetera, et cetera. There's no, there's no reason.

Leo Laporte (00:08:49):
Part of the part of the spec is a let me, let me read this sleek, thin and light and two in one chassis designs with narrow bezels for more immersive experience. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:05):
Two, I will say two in one is what you're talking about.

Leo Laporte (00:09:07):
Right?

Paul Thurrott (00:09:07):
Convertible. Well, there's also

Mary Jo Foley (00:09:11):
Foldable.

Leo Laporte (00:09:11):
What's a oh, foldable foldable. Like the foldable, sorry, I can't say it. Foldable foldable. Like the Samsung fold. You mean like that? Or what? Foldable foldable. Like what? Oh, so the, the screen actually folds,

Mary Jo Foley (00:09:27):
Right? Like cases just showed off this foldable PC at the show

Paul Thurrott (00:09:32):
Released one last year. There's a think pad fold

Mary Jo Foley (00:09:35):
That was supposed to run windows 10 X kinda ended up running kinda right. It's

Paul Thurrott (00:09:40):
Impractical it's yeah. Yeah. And you know, Lenovo in particular is a company that has experimented with form factors in ways that are kind of interesting last year and the year before actually they shipped a think book that had an E in screen on the outside. So it's kind of the world's biggest Kindle in some ways, but you can also blast the windows display through there if you want, which is terrible by the way. But that lets you run applications on the outside that maybe are note taking or reading applications. And you could make the argument in the future that with windows 11 and Android app compatibility, it could literally become a Kindle because you could run the Android version of Kindle on the outside of that thing. But it doesn't work very well. And then this year they released a third generation fold, not a fold.

Paul Thurrott (00:10:22):
I'm sorry. Think book is called a think book plus, and this one has a tablet built into the wrist dress to the right of the keyboard. So it's a giant screen, normal laptop. And then a second screen down to the right, which you can use, you know, you can write on it, you can tap bio icons, you can run apps down there if you want. It's a second display. And the innovation there other than the obvious is those two screens are available at the same time. You know, with the ThinkPad think book. Plus from previous years you can only use one screen at a time mm-hmm <affirmative> right. Cuz the other screen was on the outside.

Mary Jo Foley (00:10:56):
Okay. We keep trying to remove this every show. But remember when Microsoft had that design where there was gonna be a little panel on the outside of PCs mm-hmm <affirmative> yep. We can never remember what that was, but <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:11:07):
Yeah, it was okay. So I'm I'm I'm right in the cusp of what it was. This was in a long term Longhorn timeframe. Yeah. It was an external display for like notifications and little email alerts and stuff. The prototype was an Asus, which at that time Asus didn't actually make PCs for people. They only, you know, supplied them to Dell reference VMs, whatever. Yeah. And it had remember kind of, it kind of stuck out. It was like someone had stuck a small display. They molded the outside of the lid around the top and it was probably called what was that called? Can't

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:37):
Remember

Paul Thurrott (00:11:39):
It's not smart display because that was another Microsoft thing. No. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:43):
Right. I know. I didn't try to remember this. Another show.

Paul Thurrott (00:11:48):
It didn't come to, this is the form

Leo Laporte (00:11:50):
First form factor you're

Paul Thurrott (00:11:51):
Talking about. Right? This is the new one. Yeah. This is the newest version plus gen three. Yeah. So it's like an Android phone embedded in the keyboard on the right. But it's not Android. It's probably closer. Well, no it's it's windows, right? So it's, it's probably a seven or eight inch tablet size deal is what it looks like. Yeah. That's weird. The other, the thing these guys are doing, although interestingly, you're not on that computer. If you look at their new think pads, they actually have a camera bump at the top so they can accommodate a 10 80 P or maybe a five megapixel web cam. Right. Because one of the big problems with laptops for years and years, despite the pandemic too, you can only squeeze like a seven 20 P unit inside those tiny bezzles. Right. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so they're starting to do that. And honestly, I think that's smart. That's I think that's something people we're seeing that with phones, you know, I mean better than not a good idea, right? Yeah. It like the lead.

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:48):
I found it. Auxiliary, auxiliary display. Remember that?

Paul Thurrott (00:12:52):
Interesting. What? Yeah. What it information do you have about it?

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:55):
2008. Longhorn. Auxiliary display. Oh, LCD panel on the outside of a laptop.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:03):
Yeah. I remember it. I mean I have photos of it somewhere. Like I totally remember this.

Mary Jo Foley (00:13:07):
Yeah, me too. And I, I remember, I remember Hillel Cooperman, right. Was showing it off. I think, I don't know why I'm remembering that right now. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:13:17):
I'm gonna tell you this now because I'm gonna forget. I think I'm gonna forget this, but I've, I've spent a lot of time researching early.net stuff for this thing I'm gonna talk about later. And I found a presentation from 2001 called wow. Managing windows.net. And do you know who gave that presentation? Who can you guess? Jeffrey, snow Cooperman.

Mary Jo Foley (00:13:38):
Jeffrey

Paul Thurrott (00:13:38):
Over. Wow. Yep. Yep. 2001. Wow. So windows.net never happen. <Laugh> obviously.

Mary Jo Foley (00:13:46):
And I got, that was when they were naming everything.net. You remember SQL do net everything.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:51):
Yeah. msn.net, office

Mary Jo Foley (00:13:53):
Dot and just throwing it all on there. It was like no reason, but everything was done yet. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:13:59):
Anyway. So I think the, in the early days of the PC, it was, you had to have some other thing on you. We didn't have phones back then. That made any sense if we do today. So people would carry around these little PDAs or they carry around little devices of some kinds, little clamshell laptop. And I had something, I think it was called Rex, which was credit card size. You could put it in new wallet. And the reason I bought it was because I'd be at CS or conducts. And I tried to open my laptop to find out where my next meeting was. Yep. And it took so long to boot up every time I needed something more instant. And I think that's the use case that, that auxiliary display was trying to mm-hmm <affirmative> to meet or, you know, solve

Mary Jo Foley (00:14:38):
Or whatever. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:14:42):
Now it doesn't matter. Now you could open your laptop. It would come right on. Cuz we have Evo PCs. They, you know, they're awesome. <Laugh> I

Mary Jo Foley (00:14:48):
Saw that on the slide. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:14:51):
Anybody else it's I mean, wait a minute, before we go through the brands, I guess we should. Yeah. Step back a little bit. Cuz we were talking about chips, right? AMD some very so cool looking chips. Yeah. I would say, I think the way to frame this is all three of the major chip makers in the PC industry, in the something, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> AMD and Intel both announced their latest PC chip sets. And AMD's case rise in 6,000 series. This kind of this, they don't say it like this. Why would they? But to me,

Mary Jo Foley (00:15:24):
This is a little bit like Evo for AMD, right? Because one of the things that's part of this is much better integrate to graphics, which they say can play AAA games at 10 ADP. So kind of like, although that actually could be better than Intel has Iris XC graphics as part of the Evo thing. And it is dramatically better. I wouldn't say it doesn't make it a gaming PC, but if you could actually pay, play a 10 80 P game on what is essentially an ultra book, it's actually really exciting. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so that's kind of interesting. Plus plus that same chip is the first Platon chip

Paul Thurrott (00:16:00):
That that's actually a much bigger deal. So actually maybe we should talk about that.

Mary Jo Foley (00:16:02):
Yeah. Yeah. So Platon is something Microsoft talked about coming to windows 10, two years ago. And the idea was there would be this custom security chip that people could integrate with, or even uses their TPM inside of a PC. And everybody got really excited about it two years ago and then nothing happened at all. <Laugh> right. Nobody came out with a Platon device, by the way. That's this

Paul Thurrott (00:16:25):
Week that's Microsoft in a nutshell <laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:16:28):
It is pretty much right. Yeah. So you hear all this big excitement about so thing it's like yeah. Coming soon and now, okay. Two years later, here's the first one and it's a Lenovo device with this AMD rise in chip. That is just a integrating background,

Paul Thurrott (00:16:44):
Right? Yes, no, you're right. I, the incredible thing about this to me is two years ago, like you said, Intel AMD and qual all agreed that they would integrate this chip set into their SOC. So this is not a separate chip that ships on a PC it's actually integrated into the microprocessor essentially. Right. Or onto that SOC where the microprocessor is. Yeah. So yeah, it's taken a while, but now we see AMD has done this. Yeah. And Intel announced do chips and they to talk about this, it kind of weird. They

Mary Jo Foley (00:17:17):
Didn't yeah, that was weird. Right. Cuz everybody, everybody thought Intel would be the first one to implement this. Of course. Yeah. I mean you

Paul Thurrott (00:17:25):
Intel's bigger problems <laugh> at this

Mary Jo Foley (00:17:27):
Point. Right. So the first devices that will have Platon in them will be these new Z series Lenovo devices that are coming out this may, if they ship on time. Right. So it's been a while

Paul Thurrott (00:17:41):
But's a line ThinkPad from them. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and God, I can't keep track of ThinkPad lines. Like I can't keep track of Intel processors names. Yeah. <Laugh> but Z series. I, I, I sort of take it to be the new high end for the non workstation line. Is I think there's a 13 and a 16 inch version of gorgeous, obviously. Very, yeah. But AMD based. I mean I think if I don't wanna say all, but I think they were

Mary Jo Foley (00:18:07):
Only, I think they're only too

Paul Thurrott (00:18:10):
Based. Right. I right. I, but I think previous think pads were only Intel based, but maybe based could

Mary Jo Foley (00:18:15):
Maybe they one or two. No, I think they were. They did. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:18:19):
Yeah. I think so. Okay. I feel like they must have somewhere up. I mean, it

Speaker 5 (00:18:26):
Doesn't sound sounds sci like, like I bad science fiction

Paul Thurrott (00:18:30):
Name. This is like a 1950s atomic monster movie Platon, Platon, Platon. Yeah. We dropped the Platon bomb and now that crab thing over there is like 50 feet tall. And it's killing in San Diego. Is it the successor?

Speaker 5 (00:18:42):
The Athlon is that the idea? It's Athlon

Mary Jo Foley (00:18:44):
Pluto. No soluton is a Microsoft thing. The very first plate, the first place it showed up, this is super interesting. Was an Azure sphere. Azure sphere is the Lennox micro controller thing that Microsoft built. So that's where Pluton came from. Then, then it went into Xbox, I believe.

Paul Thurrott (00:19:03):
Right. That's right. Yeah. You're right. You are right. Look

Mary Jo Foley (00:19:06):
At me talking about Xbox. This is a new year. People look at you talking about was AMDs so no youre, right? I know me talking about chips. That's scary cuz I'm terrible on remembering which chip is, which, but yeah, so they, they pioneer Platon first in Azure sphere. Then they brought it to Xbox. Then they were like, okay, let's bring it to PCs. Right. So this is a Microsoft invented thing.

Paul Thurrott (00:19:26):
Right next it will be in 2 0 3. Why not? We'll just keep moving it market.

Mary Jo Foley (00:19:31):
Right. <laugh> yeah. I, I think it's gonna be interesting to see if it real, the kind of security benefits it actually does bring because they're, they're basically promising the moon with this thing. Right. <laugh> they're like it can make PCs more hardened against attackers. Even if they have the PC he's in hand, I'm like really? How like what, how what's this gonna be?

Paul Thurrott (00:19:54):
It's also an air fryer when you're not using a PC. It kind

Mary Jo Foley (00:19:57):
Of right. <Laugh> yeah. It does everything. It shakes it bakes. I you want it to be or not

Paul Thurrott (00:20:03):
<Laugh> right. Well at least an and the way they I'm sorry.

Mary Jo Foley (00:20:06):
I yeah. The way they described it in the blog post this week when they were talking about Platon, again was it can be your TPM if you want it to be, or it can integrate with other chips. Like it doesn't have to be great. It's like country side.

Speaker 5 (00:20:20):
I could be your TP. If you

Paul Thurrott (00:20:22):
Wanted me, this is something I would like Steve Gibson to look at this, cuz this is something I don't quite understand. I will give you my, my high stupid view of security, which is, you know, TPMS are isolated on the motherboard. That's part of the deal. So there must be some advantage to tying this into the SOC while maintaining security boundaries. You know, I know for example, on, I don't remember the name the way they brand it. I, well maybe I do touch on chip something on chip Lenovo uses a a brand of, or a style of fingerprint reader where the security chip is built into the fingerprint reader and it's not connected to anything else. So you roll your finger. Yeah. Yeah. So it stays right in the chip. The

Leo Laporte (00:21:03):
Idea is a secure enclave, implies hardware, but I guess not. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:09):
In what case

Leo Laporte (00:21:12):
It implies that there's a physically isolated place.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:16):
Yes. Right. So when in the case of Platon, this thing is hardware, but it's in a SOC and I know not everything on that. So,

Leo Laporte (00:21:24):
So, so there is a hardware component. It's not just,

Paul Thurrott (00:21:26):
Yeah, those definitely it's no it's hardware. That's what's interesting about it. Well, yep. Yeah. I mean it would have to be right, right. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:21:34):
So I'm looking back at AERE when they first talked about Platon and they called it an onboard security subsystem. That's how they described it. Right. And it doesn't

Paul Thurrott (00:21:43):
Necessarily mean hardware though. Now I'm wondering if it doesn't doubting myself,

Mary Jo Foley (00:21:46):
It doesn, but they, but they said the first they had to have a chip for it. And the first, so it weird chip right. Was media tech. So

Leo Laporte (00:21:55):
Yeah, it must be a little something. Cause you it's like air gaping, you kind of, I think you want it not running in Ram. You don't want it running in user space. You want it running and it's own private place.

Paul Thurrott (00:22:07):
This is, I mean, like I said, my, my very basic understanding of this kind of stuff, but yeah. I guess we'll have to learn more about this. Well, Steve, Steve will. I'm sure Steve

Leo Laporte (00:22:16):
Is gonna look at it as Rodney and the charm says it implies security. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:22:19):
It's well, it's, it's, it's a little more explicit than that. But yeah, it, it, it's a security. Yeah. I think of it as a security chips that, I mean, maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but 

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:32):
I dunno. Well, they called it a subsystem, but that can mean a lot of things. Right. It could be

Leo Laporte (00:22:38):
Hardware. It, I think I I'll ask Steve, but I bet you that's hardware. Yeah. Gotta be great.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:42):
Great.

Leo Laporte (00:22:44):
Yeah. I think because TPM AMD said, well, we can do TPM. I got the feeling. It was kind of like in software, you know? And

Paul Thurrott (00:22:52):
There is, there is a software version of TPM. I believe isn't there. Like ETP or something or maybe I think so. I don't know why I keep talking about security. I don't even know what I'm talking about. I know

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:05):
I'm like, I don't have any

Leo Laporte (00:23:05):
Idea on that. Sorry. I think there

Paul Thurrott (00:23:06):
Is. 

Leo Laporte (00:23:08):
Why should you be any different than any other idiot? Exactly.

Paul Thurrott (00:23:12):
Exactly. Hold on. Let me tweet this. <Laugh> in fact

Leo Laporte (00:23:15):
That's, that's what makes you good and special? I got no idea.

Paul Thurrott (00:23:19):
I'm an

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:19):
Idiot. Let tweet something. I'm okay. Admitting that <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:23:23):
Argue with someone.

Leo Laporte (00:23:25):
I don't know if it's secure sounds secure, but when you say no, no, it's gotta be secure. It says so on the label that's

Paul Thurrott (00:23:31):
You know, it feels more

Leo Laporte (00:23:31):
Secure feels. Yeah. It feels that way. <Laugh> yeah. It feels

Paul Thurrott (00:23:35):
Secure. Yeah. So I, no, that's very interesting. I, like I said, I find it as interesting that Intel did not announce this, but mm-hmm <affirmative> whatever. Same, there was nothing from qual. Well, there was a very small thing from Qualcomm at the show, but this, before we get to that, Microsoft had a post about Qualcom and windows on arm PCs. I thought, oh, oh, okay, good. It must be, I, I didn't, I, I was briefed by most of the big PC makers. I didn't hear about any new windows and arm devices and the post literally just reiterates what Qualcomm a month or two ago it's there. Yeah, it has. There are no, no PC. So so that platform is just moving forward. But they now, so yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:24:14):
Right then they announced this was the whole way this was announced was bizarre. Right? Qualcom put out a press release saying by the way, we've renewed a partnership we have with M off to work together on AR extended reality chips. And we're gonna work together on lighter weight AR glasses in the windows ecosystem. I'm like, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait a minute. <Laugh> how did that announcement just go so low key and Microsoft didn't even announce it. It was qual con who announced it <affirmative>

Paul Thurrott (00:24:46):
Right. My only guess is that it's so far off from happening. Yeah. That must

Mary Jo Foley (00:24:51):
Be it, you know? Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:52):
Yeah. I mean, when you say, you know, for example, you're a company you make AR goggles, which is what we have now. These gigantic things, you stick over your head. Obviously the goal is to get to glasses later, weight devices now like the marketing people don't wanna tell, talk about that, but obviously that's the goal,

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:09):
You know, Microsoft's not usually shy about pre announcing stuff years in advance. Let's just say,

Paul Thurrott (00:25:13):
Well, no, right. But I mean, Microsoft has a mixed reality ecosystem of sorts. There's a couple players in there with hardware that, you know, whatever sure. And those gigantic or headset things. And then obviously they make call ends, which is a true AR solution, which is very expensive and is, you know, a headset. So,

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:32):
And also has a snap dragon in it, which I forgot. 

Paul Thurrott (00:25:36):
But it does that's right. The second, the second gen one, right? I think the

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:38):
Generation. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:25:39):
Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. Look at you. You're just like a, you're like an of chip sets. <Laugh> I just

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:47):
Scaring myself right now. Usually I'm just like, I don't know what's going on.

Paul Thurrott (00:25:51):
<Laugh> now she's gonna be talking about like the year different call duty games came out and how they did this from each other.

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:57):
<Laugh> let's let's not get carried away. I think we

Paul Thurrott (00:25:59):
All know that Paul

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:00):
<Laugh> <laugh> no, but this I, this announcement was so low key and so strange then it says, yeah. And we're working together on both consumer and enterprise stuff in the metaverse blah, blah, blah. I'm like, this is a pretty big announcement that nobody seems to have known in advance.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:18):
Oh. And we should say, and specifically called out for the easily solutions for both consumers and enterprises.

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:25):
Yeah. Great. Right. That's what I just said. So yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:28):
Oh, I'm sorry. <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:30):
That's okay. You don't listen to me's fine. Very general just

Paul Thurrott (00:26:34):
Came to me. Could be a solution for consumers and enterprise.

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:36):
It like it. You guys, I like it. It could be I'm so sorry. Just saying you may have heard that somewhere. <Laugh> when I

Paul Thurrott (00:26:43):
Do that to my wife, she says it's not. So I, I <laugh>, I'm sorry. I'm sensitive to that. I'm sorry. No, you

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:51):
Know what it's so I was so stunned by that one line, because again, Microsoft, they started out with HoloLens being for consumer and enterprise quickly realized it was an enterprise thing. Yeah. And now we're talking about consumer and enterprise again, and I'm like, wait. Oh, huh,

Paul Thurrott (00:27:05):
Look at this. But I think that suggests a a product that's more appealing to consumers, both from a form factor and a price perspective. Right? Sure. It doesn't Hollands cost what? $3,500 or something? 5,000.

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:17):
Yeah. Five something if

Paul Thurrott (00:27:19):
You get the kit. Okay. So it's a lot of, it's a lot of money. It

Leo Laporte (00:27:21):
Suggests me that they see apple coming and they think we better me too. This is our space. We better make sure it's right. Yes. We agree. But apples, the rumor is, will come out this year, but it will be a developer edition that will be around $3,000. So it's not

Paul Thurrott (00:27:35):
Gonna be look consumer the, the goal doesn't have to be to beat apple, whatever that means. The thing I think we all understand about apples product, whatever's gonna be called. And whenever it hits is it will work with apple, you know? So there's always gonna be a market

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:49):
For this and the apple ecosystem. The rest of the world, $3,000 is not a big deal. Right? Like a lot of people

Leo Laporte (00:27:54):
Think, yeah, it's fine, but it's not a consumer yeah. Product.

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:58):
I, I don't know apple people.

Leo Laporte (00:27:59):
I know apple weird. I

Paul Thurrott (00:28:01):
Know you guys, the 3000 thing, doesn't, it's the $600 for the rack. You hang it on, on the wall. That's

Mary Jo Foley (00:28:08):
Special cleaning. Clocking. Don't forget that. Gotta have that. <Laugh> yeah. I don't know. I, I just think, I, I don't think this is something like you're saying, and I doubt it's imminent, but the fact this even went out with a Microsoft quote it, and the guy quoted from Microsoft by the way, is the guy who came to Microsoft from apple who had been working on apple. By the way, I

Paul Thurrott (00:28:32):
Thought that was the, I was like, who is this? I obviously, I see quote from Microsoft. I'm like, this is gonna be Alex. Kipman me too.

Mary Jo Foley (00:28:39):
I looked it up. I'm like, oh, the guy used to work at

Paul Thurrott (00:28:41):
Apple. <Laugh> I had this exact, this exactly thing when had yep. Yep. Yeah. Microsoft perfect price. I'm like who? <Laugh>. Yeah. Oh, you

Leo Laporte (00:28:50):
Didn't know it was

Mary Jo Foley (00:28:51):
Name that's funny. No. Yeah. I didn't know his name. I forgot. I think we knew he went to Microsoft, but I forgot. And now it turns out he's working on the AR VR stuff at Microsoft. Okay. You

Leo Laporte (00:29:03):
Are talking about Alex. Kipman

Paul Thurrott (00:29:05):
No, you're saying wasn't him. That's it. Wasn't here. Oh, oh, I see Ruben that's. Who

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:08):
Was the guy's? I Ruben something. <Laugh> I

Paul Thurrott (00:29:12):
Lot about that. Don't

Leo Laporte (00:29:12):
Remember Kipman has been the face of this. Oh yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:16):
Sure. Alex Kipman wasn't even mentioned in this thing at

Leo Laporte (00:29:19):
All. No, maybe he went back to Brazil.

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:21):
Nah, he's still there. He's still there. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:29:26):
Website would work. I would tell you, after the,

Leo Laporte (00:29:28):
You know, after the HoloLens, we're all dancing around the fire burning man thing. Maybe they thought they'd give Alex A. Little time. Alex. Last time I

Paul Thurrott (00:29:38):
Brought that up at the bottom of the ocean, that that

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:41):
Still seems to be a plan. That's a go for 20, 22, the dancing around the camp. Ruben Cero,

Paul Thurrott (00:29:47):
Ruben

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:47):
Cab. That's Ruben Cero name. That's Israeli.

Paul Thurrott (00:29:50):
<Laugh> it's an awesome name. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:54):
Who used to work at apple on apple watch and a lot of other consumer products at apple and then came to Microsoft, vice

Leo Laporte (00:30:00):
President engineering. He was the founder and leader of wireless design and technology group

Paul Thurrott (00:30:05):
At apple. I mean, I don't think, I think you see a lot of executives going in that direction. That's that's a big

Leo Laporte (00:30:10):
That's a big deal at apple.

Mary Jo Foley (00:30:12):
Yeah. Yeah. And he's the guy quoted talking about these new glasses coming with the joint jointly developed processes. Interesting.

Leo Laporte (00:30:20):
He was the product leader for apple TV and airport devices. Both of which are kind of not

Paul Thurrott (00:30:26):
Going anywhere. <Laugh> this same. They're both kinda on the, Hey look, they both have apple logos on 'em. That's all I'm saying.

Leo Laporte (00:30:33):
That's all it matters. Yeah. interesting named one of the most 20 most influential Latinos in tech in 2018 by C.

Paul Thurrott (00:30:43):
Hmm.

Mary Jo Foley (00:30:45):
Yeah. That's okay. So you know, maybe these things going back to the glasses, windows mixed reality headsets, those things went nowhere. Right. Do people even make those anymore? Right? No.

Paul Thurrott (00:30:54):
Right. Glass we heard, I think was a year, two a year and a half ago when Samsung, I think came out with a version that had a high resolution display in each side. Right, right. That's right. And I, it was, I think that was kind of it. I mean, I well actually when Microsoft announced flight simulator before they released it, so it would've been over a year ago, HP announced a mixed relay headset that was gonna be compatible with that. And it was high resolution as well. I'm thinking it's been over a year since we've seen anything. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Mary Jo Foley (00:31:27):
So maybe this is the replacement for that. They didn't say they're Microsoft glasses. Nobody said that in any of the quotes, like they avoided saying it, they, this would come from Microsoft. It sounds like it's in the windows ecosystem, but they didn't say this is the version of HoloLens or anything like that. They didn't even imply that.

Paul Thurrott (00:31:46):
I hope they released this thing because you need to be the glass hole for mass hall.

Mary Jo Foley (00:31:51):
<Laugh> Exactly. Mass holes are glass holes. <Laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> for people who don't know listening to show mass holes. We both can say this cuz we're both mess. Choose that's the endearment term. If you're familiar. Me too.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:07):
It sure is. <Laugh> yeah, sure is.

Mary Jo Foley (00:32:12):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was just surprised about that announcement. It was very low key. Microsoft didn't even mention it on their website. I know. Which was I, I went looking

Paul Thurrott (00:32:22):
For it. I thought me too really?

Mary Jo Foley (00:32:23):
M have a

Paul Thurrott (00:32:25):
No, they didn't an announcement. Nothing.

Mary Jo Foley (00:32:27):
Yep. No, nothing. Nothing at all. So yeah, either, like you're saying it's way, way out there and they're just like, we're not even gonna talk about this yet or mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's closer than we think. And they're waiting to have more details to share.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:41):
I think it's too far out. Yeah. I think it's far out. I,

Mary Jo Foley (00:32:44):
I would think so, but who knows? Who knows? Yeah. So I thought that was a big announcement. All, like you said, the three chip vendors each had something qualm didn't have any PCs, but they had this, which was kind of like, oh wow. Okay. Hmm.

Paul Thurrott (00:33:01):
Yeah. And then, I mean, of the P you know, Acer Austel HP, Lenovo all announced a bunch of new HP announced what looks like about 115 computers yeah. Across, you know, commercial, consumer workstation and gaming <laugh> you know, so it's, it's kind of confusing. I think some of the standout stuff includes Dell. There's a new PS 13 plus that has plus thank you. Like some 13 something, man. That, which is

Mary Jo Foley (00:33:27):
That thing looks beautiful in pictures

Paul Thurrott (00:33:29):
At least. Yes. Like edge to edge, really? Minimalist design looks beautiful. HP has a new version of the dragon fly with a three by two display. And it's

Mary Jo Foley (00:33:40):
A clamshell laptop. Yes. Let's go back to tree by works. <Laugh> yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:33:45):
Very interesting. Yeah. You know and then Lenovo has, I mean, it's just a ton of stuff. It's crazy. Yeah, they had a ton of announcements, C series, which is the first Platon based PC. Although if Platon is just part of this AMD Chi set chipset, which I assume it, this <laugh> that suggests that anyone, any company releasing PCs based on that should, should have the Platon capability. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:34:09):
Platon is part of photoable EMD chip set. <Laugh> I'm just thinking of new, new ads we could do for it. Marriage. There's so

Mary Jo Foley (00:34:18):
Many ads, Mel.

Leo Laporte (00:34:23):
The, I should get a windows PC. Do, do you see anything in this that you really think at the Dell Dell?

Mary Jo Foley (00:34:28):
Get that new touch bar? I want somebody to get,

Leo Laporte (00:34:31):
Somebody has a touch bar. Boy, I miss

Paul Thurrott (00:34:34):
While my bar it's it's oh, I don't know.

Mary Jo Foley (00:34:37):
Give it a lot a touch bar. No, but the

Leo Laporte (00:34:39):
Keyboard looks beautiful. I've always like the machines. I've always been very happy.

Paul Thurrott (00:34:43):
I, I always have the same reactions to anything like this. I'll see a beautiful 13 inch laptop and I'll think God, could you make a 15 inch version of this thing?

Leo Laporte (00:34:51):
They 13 they do X PS

Paul Thurrott (00:34:54):
13. Yeah, they do. They have an 17. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:34:57):
13 is what you want for portability though. 28.

Leo Laporte (00:35:00):
What 12th generation tell core glass track pad now replaced with a seamless glass touch pad with haptics. I'm sorry. Where is it? It's I don't see it.

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:11):
No, you have to press something to make it show up. Don't

Leo Laporte (00:35:14):
You? So this whole thing is display. Is that

Paul Thurrott (00:35:17):
I don't think so. I think this is the touch pad in the middle there. Oh, interesting. Which you can't see until you touch it? Other pictures.

Leo Laporte (00:35:23):
Yeah. Let me find some pictures.

Paul Thurrott (00:35:28):
Yeah. See if there's an actual shot of it comes two colors,

Leo Laporte (00:35:31):
Two colors,

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:32):
Black and gray. Yeah. One is the shipping allegedly

Paul Thurrott (00:35:35):
<Laugh> with the spring and the prices

Leo Laporte (00:35:37):
TVC. It's like an PS. I mean it

Paul Thurrott (00:35:39):
Doesn't. Yeah, it does. It's just when you open it, you're like, oh, look at this thing. It's kind of, I, yeah, it looks really, I like the edge. Yeah. I, I like the edge edge thing that lets you have full size keys, bigger keys, key caps, whatever.

Leo Laporte (00:35:50):
Yeah. So you're like in this, this yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:35:54):
The people are gonna look. I see, I can tell

Leo Laporte (00:35:56):
You this part. Sorry. I see what's going on. Yeah. That's okay. That lights up. First part lights up. It's not real keys. See, this is, this killed me cuz I 

Paul Thurrott (00:36:05):
It's not. So this will switch between function, keys and you know, the multimedia, whatever keys. I think that's the yeah. A there's still a function toggle. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:36:14):
Okay. I know <laugh> I mean I'll, you know, jury's out. I use the escape. I'm one of those weirdos

Paul Thurrott (00:36:21):
I'm trying. So I literally, my first reaction to this was do I actually use function keys? And the answer is actually I do for volume. I use more. Right? Well I use them. No, I use them for like all F four. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:36:32):
Windows really? Like what? That's true windows really?

Paul Thurrott (00:36:34):
Like I use F two foram when you select a file <affirmative>

Leo Laporte (00:36:39):
Yep. Refresh if I'm a

Mary Jo Foley (00:36:41):
Little yep. I'm a little worried about no spacing between the keys. Like how is that gonna be? Yeah. You know,

Paul Thurrott (00:36:47):
<Laugh> I think it's okay. I think it's like you're gonna, you're hitting the middle anyway. So if there were spaces you'd you, your fingers are still going to the same place maybe,

Mary Jo Foley (00:36:56):
But I'm as a touch type. I'm like, ah, was that gonna be weird? I know.

Paul Thurrott (00:37:03):
Yep. I I'm interested to see it. So

Leo Laporte (00:37:06):
This is why you got a CES, so you could touch those things, but then you

Mary Jo Foley (00:37:09):
Don't wanna touch it. Just wait, few weeks, sister and brother has touched it.

Leo Laporte (00:37:14):
This is from the verges video about it. Look at of small. It looks really looks com compact. I like it. Yeah. <Laugh> yeah. I always get nervous when I see things like that, you know? I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And there's no track pad. It's just part of the it's part of the chin rest, whatever you call it, the elbow rest. <Laugh> the elbow arrest. Oh yeah. That's it. That's the part of the body you put there? <Laugh> the elbow. No, the wrist rest wrist rest. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:37:47):
Now people are very particular about arrow keys. I've noticed writing your use and there's gonna be a lot of people see that and it's not a T and Theyre gonna be like, yeah, can't do it. Can't do it. Yeah. And actually that's a fair criticism. I mean, I, those little arrow keys are kind of tough. Yeah. And it's also, the other thing that's missing is dedicated home and end keys, which I use all the time. Oh. And I don't like when they're only function 

Leo Laporte (00:38:11):
Keyboard's important. That's the thing we really spend a lot of time with

Paul Thurrott (00:38:16):
If you, well, if you do, if you do type a lot, you're gonna be very particular about it. Sure. Yeah. Anyway, it's a beautiful little computer. Yeah. It is.

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:24):
It looks pretty. It's

Leo Laporte (00:38:25):
Looks very pretty.

Paul Thurrott (00:38:27):
I would look at the the dragonfly gen three as well. It's the HP that's HP elite dragonfly. It's a be, it's always been beautiful. It's a great computer. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:38):
I think I told you way too. I didn't like the dragon fly and I really thought that would be my ideal

Paul Thurrott (00:38:44):
Device. Now. Why, what was it that you

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:46):
Didn't like about it? The battery life was terrible for me. Really terrible. And

Paul Thurrott (00:38:51):
Yeah. But wait, Joe, so the problem is most laptops are not optimized for notepad and I don't know. You would think, you

Mary Jo Foley (00:38:58):
Would think I would get the best battery life of any windows user, right. Wouldn't you think that also remember? They said that the out external casing had something that was supposed to be anti fingerprint. Every second I looked at this thing, my fingerprints were all over it. I'm like, wait,

Paul Thurrott (00:39:15):
Interesting. What the hell? So it's magnesium. It's magnesium bass. The first two versions I think were that kind of dark blue color. I think with the, they were max, they came out lash as a black version. And I think this year they're doing both colors. Again. I

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:29):
Love the color. I love the weight and the size, but then when I actually tried to use it, I'm like, oh no, this isn't for me, me at all.

Paul Thurrott (00:39:36):
That's bad. See, I really like the keyboard on that thing. Beautiful. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:40):
I'm excited. They made it a clamshell laptop though, because as you know, yeah. As I said to Dan Reino on, on Twitter this week, my lap ability crusade has not ended just because it

Paul Thurrott (00:39:50):
Year, you know, I've been meaning to tell you something along those lines. Yes. You and I, I wouldn't call it an argument, but you and I had over the years have debated many times the, the, the merit of having like a touch screen on a, on a laptop, but I've always kind of taken the stance. Like, look, it's one of those things, that's there. It doesn't hurt you if it's there and you know, you'll find yourself kind of whatever. And I gotta say like, as the years have gone on, I, I, I'm actually starting to appreciate a laptop, not being touched because it, it sort of keeps it into the realm that I prefer to be in, which is just work, you know, and writing on the, with the keyboard. No temptation to play mind sweeper with the no touch screen. No, you don't need it. No. Yeah. So a lot you guys are,

Mary Jo Foley (00:40:35):
You're gonna be horrified when I tell you the next thing at this holiday. <Laugh> I shut off windows. Hello. On all my PCs, because I think it's terrible.

Leo Laporte (00:40:43):
Yeah. Wow. You don't like it that you opened open it up and it says, you know, it sees you, you were using it the hello with a camera.

Paul Thurrott (00:40:50):
Yep. And it didn work for you. Right. Let me, let me a lot

Mary Jo Foley (00:40:53):
Of times. And I don't, it was just so frustrating. So I just shut it off and I'm so much happier typing a password in mm. I

Paul Thurrott (00:41:01):
Very much prefer a fingerprint reader if it's available. Yeah, yeah. You can just type in a pin. I

Mary Jo Foley (00:41:06):
Don't think I have fingerprints. <Laugh>, <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:41:11):
Something about the, the screen in the duo as erased my fingerprints. Yeah. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:41:16):
I feel like I've tried fingerprint readers and I'm like, why doesn't this work?

Paul Thurrott (00:41:20):
<Laugh> so some PC makers, at least HP, certainly, and Lenovo has, has been talking about this with their CES stuff. So I'm not sure if this existed before it's new, whatever, but are adding on to windows with like person detection type stuff. So it will actually, if it sees you, if it detects a person is coming, it will wake up the screen. And then when it detects, it's you, it signs you in. So it works with the windows slow and it does it in the reverse as well. If you walk away from the screen, it will sign it off. Yep. And that's supposed to speed up that process us. Yeah. And I don't, it's not something I use. Like I don't, I don't really, I don't want facial recognition because I want signin to be explicit. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> as many times I sit down in my, in front of my computer to do something else. I didn't, I don't need this thing on, you know, but, and it kind of pops on, I don't like that. That's just my, my little pet peeve, but I've

Mary Jo Foley (00:42:13):
Trained it, retrained it, trained it with glasses, without glasses, dark, light, light, brighter light. And like, I just keep retraining it retraining I'm like, and it still doesn't work. Like why <laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (00:42:25):
Yeah. I mean, I don't use it a lot, so I'm already, I'm, I'm surprised it doesn't work better,

Mary Jo Foley (00:42:29):
But yeah. And you know, I'm kind of, I'm like you that I'm like, you know what I, and I have to make sure I'm looking at exactly into my camera or like it sees me or I'm ducking around. I'm like, you know, what's, what's wrong with typing in a password. I know we're supposed to be password list, blah, blah, blah. But

Paul Thurrott (00:42:44):
It works. It happened with my phone today, I was listening to a video. So the screen went off and I tapped the screen. So I could sign in to do something on the phone were still sideways. And I'm, you know, <laugh> looking, turn your head. I had to turn the phone face

Leo Laporte (00:43:00):
Is far from, yeah. If your fingerprints worked, Mary Jo, you'd prefer probably fingerprint. I would. Yeah, I

Paul Thurrott (00:43:06):
Would. I really like, I like windows a low fingerprint a lot,

Leo Laporte (00:43:09):
I think fingerprints, my personal choice. But I have,

Mary Jo Foley (00:43:12):
I know I've tried it on the HP that I have because it has a fingerprint reader and I'm like sort of half works, half doesn't work. I don't know. Did she work

Leo Laporte (00:43:20):
In a steam laundry for you or something? I mean,

Mary Jo Foley (00:43:23):
No. You know what? This has been like,

Paul Thurrott (00:43:25):
The last two inches of her lap were shaved off and then

Mary Jo Foley (00:43:27):
I cook a lot. No, I cook a lot. And if your fingers even a little bit damp and you try to use the fingerprint reader, it just doesn't.

Leo Laporte (00:43:34):
Oh no, this morning. I same thing with my facial, little wet. Couldn't do anything with it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why maybe that's, it's nice to have both faces.

Paul Thurrott (00:43:43):
Is that why face ID doesn't sign when I'm crying? Yes. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:43:47):
That's it <laugh> wet

Leo Laporte (00:43:49):
Ball. I think you should have both. That's the, you know, it kind of bugs me that, that they, they say, well, you, you got face ID. You don't need touch ID

Paul Thurrott (00:43:57):
Or you've got fingerprint. No, you should have, you should. Absolutely both. Especially in this era with masks and whatnot. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:44:03):
That's right. Yeah, sure. Yeah. That's right. I think biometrics are good too. But if you don't have fingerprints and you cry a lot, <laugh>,

Paul Thurrott (00:44:14):
You're in trouble. Well, if you use the windows can be, you probably do cry lot. Yeah. 

Mary Jo Foley (00:44:18):
That's why you stick with passwords. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:44:22):
Well, that's always the fallback, right? You always have that. It is.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:24):
Yeah. The pin, the pin is the minimum. I think we would say. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:44:28):
Yeah. Or minimum as we call it minimum a moment.

Mary Jo Foley (00:44:32):
Nice. It's like P interest P the P

Paul Thurrott (00:44:35):
The, the PN, the PN that you used to Simon

Leo Laporte (00:44:38):
<Laugh> remind me. I'm sorry. I probably, you probably think at this moment that Leo just doesn't pay any attention, but I have been, but I'm still in Platon.

Mary Jo Foley (00:44:52):
You're going back to Platon.

Paul Thurrott (00:44:54):
So, well I'm what is Itan so there's

Leo Laporte (00:44:57):
Evo. It's Platon the E version. Microsoft's Evo. No, no, no. It's a

Paul Thurrott (00:45:02):
Security platform. It's just about, it's just about

Leo Laporte (00:45:04):
Security security, which is funny because Microsoft's the one that said you can't have windows 11 without TPM

Paul Thurrott (00:45:10):
2.0,

Leo Laporte (00:45:11):
That's right. But soluton does a supersede TPM.

Mary Jo Foley (00:45:15):
It can replace your TPM, right. Is it better

Leo Laporte (00:45:19):
Than <laugh>? I'm sorry. Is it

Mary Jo Foley (00:45:20):
A super better TP? Who knows? <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:45:23):
I know that's so in

Mary Jo Foley (00:45:25):
Microsoft blog on Steve, right? Microsoft's own blog from yesterday, Microsoft Pluton is a security processor is what it says. Okay. So

Leo Laporte (00:45:34):
That sounds like hardware.

Paul Thurrott (00:45:35):
So sounds like the other way when Microsoft brought this to my attention, which I'd already seen from the Lenovo thing, or yeah, actually from the AMD thing all three companies told me about it, whatever. The Microsoft email that I got was basically just the one paragraph thing. And it pointed to me to the blog post. They wrote a year and a half ago, whenever it was describing Pluto, <laugh> like, they really didn't have a lot of new information. <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:46:00):
But here's why we're confused. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> when they first announced Pluton years ago, I think they called it a platform for running firmware. Right. They didn't call it a chip right at that time. <Affirmative> so why we

Paul Thurrott (00:46:15):
We're really getting bogged down in this <laugh> yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Now I, now I'm gonna look it up. <Laugh> thank you. So

Leo Laporte (00:46:23):
I'm gonna take doing this opportunity because I think this is a good point to mention this, to say that because the today's show is so scant on, in detail. <Laugh> you're gonna give you all a chance to ask your questions. If you're in the IRC or the discord chats watching the live show, <laugh> prepare, you may have questions like as I do about Platon,

Paul Thurrott (00:46:47):
Oh, please ask a lot of questions about Platon we're we're poised to answer those questions.

Leo Laporte (00:46:55):
Let the Python on questioning begin

Paul Thurrott (00:46:58):
As a bit of background. Microsoft did partner with microprocessor makers back in the early two thousands when they created TPM. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:47:07):
Well, yeah, that was, that was an Intel Microsoft deal. That was

Paul Thurrott (00:47:10):
The big controversy about Longhorn, right. You know, in the same way that activation was the big controversy about windows XP, right? They announced this. And of course, all the Len guys were freaking out, more people install. It has, this is how they keep us off of,

Leo Laporte (00:47:23):
To be fair. It has added a little saw of incompatibility with Linux, but most of us know enough to turn it off and everything

Paul Thurrott (00:47:33):
Will be fine. So this is, this is what Microsoft said. When they first announced Platon, they said TPM is so successful that hackers are working around the chip set to find other ways to exploit PCs, including the bus interface that sits between a, a PC CPU and the TPM. And that's where Platon comes in because it's integrated onto the, I keep saying SOC I, I, in some ways I feel like it's not physically isolated. It will be integrated directly into the PC's. Microprocesor okay. It's firmware will be updated through Microsoft.

Leo Laporte (00:48:08):
It's it's in the SOC that's fair. I think that's the work the

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:11):
Same way. If you guys look on Twitter, look on Twitter too. Oh yeah. El hone. And just tweeted us a nice picture. That's that's

Leo Laporte (00:48:16):
Where I get all the information.

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:18):
Exactly. <laugh> that's how I, no, this is Microsoft's picture. And it shows Pluton security pressor with Microsoft firm where interfacing with SOC security subsystem. Right. <affirmative> right.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:30):
The first blue time based PCs were expected in 2021.

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:34):
Yeah. So they're only a little late. Okay. One year. All right.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:40):
Yep.

Leo Laporte (00:48:41):
Yep. So anything else at CES before we, oh, I guess there was thing. Well, hold on. We want pause. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so that everybody can absorb

Paul Thurrott (00:48:50):
Goodness. Our genius about TPM and associates and flu signs. Yep. And now, now that that one second has passed <laugh> on we go

Leo Laporte (00:49:01):
So more CAS stuff, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:49:03):
Yeah. This came outta nowhere. In some ways that the bottom of a Google blog post, they said that the Android team is now focusing on building for other platforms like windows, whether it's in gaming productivity or other areas. So here are the three things they kind of spat out that we're coming. When you connect your Android phone to your windows PC with fast pair, you'll be able to quickly set up Bluetooth accessories, sync, text messages, and share files with nearby share. Now, if you use a Chromebook today, that might sound very familiar because they have something, I believe it's called phone hub. That's built into ChromeOS, which kind of does this stuff. You can use the P or, you know, the web app version of Google messages to send and receive text messages on your Chromebook can use ne nearby share, which is a new feature. I think it just came out a couple months ago or a month or two ago on Chrome OS to share files between Android devices and Chromebook. And they're working. They're never working with Microsoft by the way. This is what kills me. We're working. We Google a working with Acer, HP, and Intel to bring these experiences to select windows PCs later this year. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:50:18):
Okay. Okay. So I, I'm a little bit excited about this because as people on the show know, I haven't had good luck with your phone. I feel like your phone was designed, but Microsoft's your phone app works well with Samsung. Doesn't work with other Android phones outside of Samsung. Right? So if, yeah, no, if this fast paired thing works, that's what I'm gonna use for sure. Right. I don't care if it's from Google, like as long as it connects my PC and let's me see files, messages, blah, blah, blah, great.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:48):
Everybody share is good. We have something like that in windows that nobody uses, but the, the, you know, I often have, I'm sitting there with my phone and I need to get something on my computer. You know, apple has solved this problem. Obviously they own the whole ecosystem. So that's great if using a Mac and a, an iPhone, you're all set, but you know, in the windows world, most windows, well, most windows users use either iOS or Android, I guess, but literally those that use Android, the integration points are pretty slim and yes, you can use your phone in windows 10 or windows 11, but I, you know, it doesn't work very well. I often just make sure that like, I'll tell, I may wanna get a photo that I wanna put in an article. So I take a picture with my phone. I'll make sure it syncs to Google photos. So let's go to Google photos on the web, download it from there, you know, which is kind of a crazy multistep process, but it would be kind of neat if you could just send it to the computer, it would be. And I, I believe that's how this will work at some point. So

Mary Jo Foley (00:51:44):
Yeah. So how is it gonna interface with the, what is it called? Google messaging or Google messages or Google, whatever messages. Yeah. Messages. Yeah. That works great. Also with the PC, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:51:55):
Yeah. Yeah. That works. Yeah. It works better than your phone. If you wanna use text message nearby. Share to me, looks like apps that Dell and HP at least make HP is something called quick drop. It's a third party up. You have to have it on your phone. You have to have it on your computer. And then you can do this kind of thing. You have, you know some photos or files or whatever they are on your phone or vice versa. And you wanna send 'em with the PC. So this interface kind of comes up. The nice thing about nearby share is that it's built into Android, right? At least I, I don't know if it debuted with Android 11 or 12 or whatever, but it's part to the platform. So it's just one of like a, it's sort of like the share pain you get. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and you choose your, well, it probably literally is the share pain and you choose nearby share your PC will show up as one of the targets and you can send whatever it is you're looking at to that PC. It's good.

Mary Jo Foley (00:52:44):
There it is. That's it's never knew about it. So there we go. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:52:48):
Well, of course there's not. What would you share with like the share requires yeah. Someone to have like the newest hand Android phone on earth, you know, or you would've to have two of them something. Yes. But you have to have two, you know what I mean? Like there are, you have to have the other side of you,

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:01):
Wait, couldn't you share with another Google device, like a nest or Google home or, no,

Paul Thurrott (00:53:07):
I dunno about those, but I mean, if you have a Chromebook and it's on the latest ChromeOS, you can do this now. I think this just happened. Okay. And the fact that they're bringing it to PCs is smart and they did, you know, it's interesting. They, in the, this thing is one paragraph. It's like three sentences, but it is, it did say this is not the first time this has come up. Google is building on for other platforms like windows, whether it's in gaming, which they have a link for and then productivity or other areas, when you go to that link, it's that Google play games and PC thing we talked about. Yeah. a month ago or whatever we can do. Yeah. Don't yeah, we, yeah. We don't know how it's gonna work, but there's gonna be select games or some games from the Google play store, which are Android apps running on windows. We're not working with Microsoft, just being really clear about that with doing this on our own. All right. So it's like, they've woken up to the fact. Well, I'm sure they've known this for a long time. You know, apple has the Mac Google has and, or sorry has Chromebooks, but you know, windows is the world, you know? And so I think they're, they're smart to do this. I don't like that. They're not working with Microsoft. Microsoft would jump all over this,

Mary Jo Foley (00:54:15):
Right? No, you know what happened? Like we talked about like that whole Tru between Google and Microsoft ended and they may have been negotiating all these different things to work with them, like on the gay and on this play fair, whatever it's called play share. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:54:29):
What's it called? Play.

Mary Jo Foley (00:54:31):
<Laugh> fair play. No fair. It's a

Paul Thurrott (00:54:34):
Fair play. <Laugh> I don't think it was fair play. Fair play was like a real audio thing from like 20 years.

Mary Jo Foley (00:54:42):
Fast payer. Sorry. Oh, fast.

Paul Thurrott (00:54:45):
Remember. Well, okay. So when those PCs and Android devices, and I guess now Chromebooks do support fast, all do support. Fast bear. Fast bear is yeah. You know, if you buy a Microsoft mouse, it's pairing and you just bring it close, it gives you a dialogue. You don't have to go into settings, connections, Bluetooth. You know, you don't have to do that. It's just like fast. Do you want to connect? I've only seen it with mice, but I'm sure there are other it's Bluetooth.

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:07):
Probably like a headset, right? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:55:09):
I think that's part, I think that's part of what it requires. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice. And, and you know, if you buy like Google headphones or earbuds or whatever, you open the case, if you have an a pixel at least, and probably a newer Android device, you get that little shade that pops up. Do you want to connect this to this? Yeah, the answer's yes, of course I do. Yeah. It's just, it's a nice city. It's the way the app ecosystem works. You know, if you buy, got it. Airpods and you open the case, you have an iPhone you're in, you know, it's nice.

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:35):
Yeah. Okay. Okay. If you say so, I know now I'm like, now I wanna go take my pixel about hardware. I'm like, now I gonna go take my pixel and see what I can connect, actually. Speaking of

Paul Thurrott (00:55:48):
Which didn't you didn't you get like free what do you call 'em? Pixel bud. A series from your <affirmative>. So did you connect them to your phone and did

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:56):
It do that? I gave, I gave my nephew <laugh>.

Paul Thurrott (00:56:00):
Okay. You know, come to think of it. I pre-ordered, I probably should. I just

Mary Jo Foley (00:56:04):
Don't did I? You should got you get an email. How does it work? Email? You get an email and you have to tell them, okay, I want it. I gotta start reading

Paul Thurrott (00:56:11):
My email. I think I'm probably missing out

Mary Jo Foley (00:56:12):
A lot of things. Yeah. You got to choose. No, they're like worth a hundred bucks, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the green or white or something, right? Yeah. The green was nice.

Paul Thurrott (00:56:21):
Yeah. Yeah. I like great. I

Leo Laporte (00:56:23):
Kind of check my email. Oh, I, they probably emailed G my Gmail account. I don't even use that. Yeah, they do. Yeah. That's what they do. Yep. That's that's probably why I missed it. It's probably too late now. Not that I care. I keep buying buds from various <laugh> people hoping that right. Bluetooth buds solves the problem and they they're alter. I know.

Paul Thurrott (00:56:43):
Universal. I do the same thing. Yeah. Awesome. These got good

Leo Laporte (00:56:44):
Reviews. I mean, from people Samsung,

Paul Thurrott (00:56:46):
Samsung. Oh, I like them. I actually do like them, but, but they don't have a and C oh, well you don't. I need, I need bud. I can wear the gym where I can block out the stupidity from the gym, which is loud music and whatever else is going. And they just don't. They sound great, but they don't don't have any noise. Cancellation noise canceling. Yeah. Is it from they're good for walking around the world cuz then you can still hear all stuff. Google

Leo Laporte (00:57:10):
Store. That would send it to me store. I get an

Mary Jo Foley (00:57:12):
Email from the store.

Leo Laporte (00:57:14):
Yep. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (00:57:15):
Is the store I'm sorry. That's the web

Leo Laporte (00:57:16):
Store dot. No. Yeah, yeah. But then the email address. Yeah. It's probably Google store. Yeah. okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to derail this <laugh> no,

Paul Thurrott (00:57:27):
Everyone should have taken advantage of this.

Leo Laporte (00:57:30):
All my email from the Google stores from 2017. Don't the search for is

Paul Thurrott (00:57:34):
They're called

Leo Laporte (00:57:34):
<Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (00:57:36):
Pixel buds. Is that what

Paul Thurrott (00:57:37):
They're called buds a series. Yeah. Yeah. A dash series.

Leo Laporte (00:57:42):
I'm I'm sure I missed out.

Paul Thurrott (00:57:44):
So the email is you have a, you have to pixel Bud's a series offer to redeem at Google store. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You have to redeem by November 30. Sorry. Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:57:53):
Well, there you go. That's okay. I don't really care

Paul Thurrott (00:57:57):
<Laugh> and by the way, what it says is thank you for your order of a test. Go pixel six <laugh>. Oh, okay. What go the quality level. We're all looking

Leo Laporte (00:58:06):
For, you know what? I love completely parenthetically Adobe's have you seen these ads on mostly on the football games, the Adobe experience ads, I guess they sell software to make better customer experiences and they illustrate poor customer experiences. I'm sure nobody watching the hello

Paul Thurrott (00:58:25):
Test. Thank you for joining us today.

Leo Laporte (00:58:27):
I'm sure nobody watching the ads even knows what's going on. <Laugh> but I'm watching. 'em Going. Yeah. I hate it. When that happens. It's things like that.

Paul Thurrott (00:58:36):
Well, Google sent me that email. Yeah. They, they need, thank you for purchasing, purchasing a test dash pixel six. Like

Leo Laporte (00:58:42):
What? Come on. Does nobody even look at these? <Laugh> no, it's all run by Python. <Laugh> yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:58:51):
Yeah. Well, I'm actually, I'm I'm very interested to see what Google does here. Cuz I, you to me. Yeah. You can't have enough integration between these platforms. I just, like I said, I just wish they were working with Microsoft on this stuff. It's stupid.

Leo Laporte (00:59:04):
So you're keeping your pixel six. Mary Jo. I am, even though Google has apparently now you never got the December update. So you never had to worry about your connectivity disappearing.

Mary Jo Foley (00:59:17):
No, but I also never get the fingerprint reader fixed and it's so terrible. You don't one either. Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (00:59:23):
No. So my theory is be that's might be because you're on Verizon might be cuz she

Leo Laporte (00:59:28):
Has no fingerprints. That could

Mary Jo Foley (00:59:30):
Be a two.

Paul Thurrott (00:59:32):
We Don hello test. We notice you don't have any fingerprints.

Mary Jo Foley (00:59:35):
No, it might be because I'm on Verizon and Verizon's like the gatekeeper right? For that, that

Leo Laporte (00:59:41):
Kinda stuff maybe? Yeah. My pixel's on Google five. Oh yeah, but I still haven't. I should just, they finally admitted. Oh yeah. That December update. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:59:49):
Three weeks. Everybody.

Mary Jo Foley (00:59:51):
I know after they promised it and then it never came <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (00:59:54):
Yeah. So I still have a pixel five, a so when they released the December update, the second they of asked it, I checked and I got the update. Oh you just get it? Yep. The other day five, the five a so on the, the January update just came out, checked it. Got that update too. No. Now granted it's a five a, so it took like an hour to install, but it, it, I got it on the six, a six, a the six pro I still on like, you are never November five.

Leo Laporte (01:00:23):
I'm on the November 5th. I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, me too. Me too. But we're glad because 

Mary Jo Foley (01:00:29):
I guess they say we don't wanna lose

Leo Laporte (01:00:31):
Later, later this month. Right? We're glad

Paul Thurrott (01:00:34):
I, I assume they're gonna be delivered together. Yeah. Now I assume further that these security updates are cumulative. Yes. But the thing is, there's really three things that you're not getting. And this is what kind of bugs me about this. There's like security updates. There are pixel six specific updates, right? Yeah. And then there's the, the December feature drop for pixel, which is a completely separate thing. And you didn't get any of any of those. Like you didn't get any of it. And I, I, you can't, it's like you can't separate of stuff out. Well, you know, I, we talked about this some time to time for all the criticism that Microsoft gets and for all the valid criticism, I think of the windows as a service stuff. The one thing they've done is they've created a really amazing update service for windows where you could buy a PC that was made in June.

Paul Thurrott (01:01:20):
It's been sitting in that box since, until December and then you turn it on for the first time and you have like three downloads. It's nothing. Cuz all the updates that have happened in the interim are all cumulative. It's super easy to keep a windows PC up to date. You don't have to worry if that thing was sitting in a closet for two years, you bring it doesn't matter. Windows seven. You'd still be installing those updates like a week later. But with windows 10 and now 11, that stuff is much better. But if you install an update on iOS or, or Android, I don't know, what are they doing? <Laugh> it's like, do you have to, you touch every bit in the phone? Like I think they do do

Leo Laporte (01:01:54):
Actually I think it's because if, look at the size,

Paul Thurrott (01:01:56):
I'm sorry, but that's that's antiquity a multi gig

Leo Laporte (01:01:58):
By yeah, they don't do Delta.

Paul Thurrott (01:02:00):
Well, no this not January update. Well it was either 300 something or three 30 megabytes. It Small's just, that's just the Delta, but it took, it took an hour. Yeah. There's some

Leo Laporte (01:02:10):
Weird thing that happens with Android where it goes through every app and recom compiles. The,

Paul Thurrott (01:02:14):
The that's what I'm talking about. That's IO always or Mac always did this in the past as well. I don't know if they still that

Leo Laporte (01:02:20):
Pile. Hey, you wanna see some chilling video? I do. This is the, the doors at CES just opened well a couple hours ago and here's the doors are back. They have doors and here's the video from CNET from the the hall as, as CES opened this morning,

Paul Thurrott (01:02:39):
These idiots,

Leo Laporte (01:02:40):
Oh that's chilling.

Paul Thurrott (01:02:41):
This is, this is like our, our planet filling an intelligent test. You know, I

Leo Laporte (01:02:46):
Can see the, the OCN just floating in the air. They're all wearing masks though. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:02:51):
It's like the way you can see heat on really humid days. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:02:54):
Yeah. God, it's not doesn't look, honestly, doesn't look that much less crap than usual. Are

Paul Thurrott (01:03:00):
They going to a funeral? They look like they're going chamber. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:03:04):
It's crazy. Oh, that's terrible. But it does kinda look like that, right?

Paul Thurrott (01:03:07):
Yeah. Okay. No, one's like, no one's pumping their fist here. Like this are not, this is not an excited

Leo Laporte (01:03:11):
Looking problem. No, they're sad. There are a couple people doing the thumbs up, but the rest of them are realize what they're heading into and it's not good. No,

Paul Thurrott (01:03:19):
They geez.

Leo Laporte (01:03:20):
Oh boy. That's central hall right through there is the best part of CES. Usually the big TV, you know, Panasonic with the TV waterfall wall. I don't know what it's what it looks like,

Paul Thurrott (01:03:31):
But see be the best part was always when I left.

Leo Laporte (01:03:35):
Yeah. I was just gonna say there was no

Paul Thurrott (01:03:37):
Good part was there's some good restaurants in Vegas for sure. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:03:41):
No I'm with you. Right? Thanks to scooter X who posted that in our discord. So we,

Paul Thurrott (01:03:48):
I got, yeah. I don't think I've been to CS in five years now. Maybe

Leo Laporte (01:03:56):
Like a decade 20, 20. Yeah. It was the last CS. <Laugh> that's I returned my last that's right. Cds. speaking of phones, have you now a little bird tells me Paul, you threw your pixel six in the ocean.

Paul Thurrott (01:04:14):
No, <laugh> no. I'm still deciding what to do with it. He wants to, I saw this report that pixel six displays are starting to crack for no reason. Oh boy. And I thought to myself, you know, I should just sell this thing right now. <Laugh> this is before anything else happens to it. I kind of wanna see this update. I, I, I, I really wanna know if it fixes enough of the problems where this thing becomes a little less iffy.

Leo Laporte (01:04:37):
I haven't had any problems. I love my pixel six, but I, it really doesn't tell you or miss. Some people have and some people don't,

Paul Thurrott (01:04:44):
I switched to an iPhone and the incredible lack of drama on this phone is notable. No, there's no drama. It's just worse. You know, look, there's little things, you know, I it's goofy that they use lightning still. That's stupid. The notch doesn't make any sense to me, you know, but these are not, at least for me deal break. I think if you were doing like 4k cinema, whatever they call the ProRes video, you had to offput that thing on USB two speeds. You probably wanna murder somebody, but compared to the problems I had with a pixel, and by the way, I being honest with myself, cuz I really like the idea of pixel. Of course I do. I think I've had a problem with every single pixel I've ever owned and I've owned every single pixel they've ever made except for one, one model. But I bought a pixel. I bought at least one pixel every year and the year that they've had two pixels, I've bought two pixels every year. Yeah. so I feel like I've given it the, the college try, whatever you wanna call it. So you can't tell, you can't tell me I haven't tried. But man, it's like, why don't I keep punching myself in a face?

Mary Jo Foley (01:05:47):
No, this is my third pixel. I, I got the two, the three Excel and this, and this is the first time I've been really frustrated with

Leo Laporte (01:05:55):
The pixel. Yeah. Oh yeah. I am PR it's just, Hey, eating his I'm

Mary Jo Foley (01:05:59):
Just bummed out about the fingerprint thing. His yeah, the kids, right.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:02):
That's unbelievable. <Laugh> that makes me sad because this has been figured out and yeah. It's Google and come on.

Mary Jo Foley (01:06:08):
And then they lied and said it was a security thing. Come on. <Laugh> yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:06:12):
Mine works fine. By the way I,

Paul Thurrott (01:06:14):
It does by the way, but this is, but this is, this is exactly the conversation you have with people. You either, you, you say that it doesn't work and someone's like, oh my God. You're exactly right. And then the other person is like, what are you talking about? Well,

Leo Laporte (01:06:25):
There must be hardware, different differences. That's all I can say. You

Mary Jo Foley (01:06:28):
Know, I wonder about that. Like how, how, which batch of phones you got or I think

Paul Thurrott (01:06:34):
Early think used to it. Like you have to hold down a little longer than you want. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:06:38):
You have feedback.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:40):
So there's a, like I just signed into mine immediately. So like that worked fine. Yeah. 

Mary Jo Foley (01:06:46):
I never have it work on the first try ever. It never is.

Leo Laporte (01:06:51):
Huh? I hold it there. You're right. I mean, that's the only, but here's the thing you to kinda hold it for half a second. But it worked

Paul Thurrott (01:06:59):
When you say like it's never worked the first time ever. And then Leo says it usually works the first time I'm in the middle. And to me, that's exactly where I don't want technology to be. No, it's

Leo Laporte (01:07:09):
Gotta consistent.

Paul Thurrott (01:07:10):
I agree. Yeah. It ha the middle is inconsistent and I, I, and that was what drives me crazy, but

Leo Laporte (01:07:14):
Mine's consistent. I've never, it always works. Yeah. Unless I missed the target or, or I don't hold it on long enough like that. But if I, if you

Paul Thurrott (01:07:23):
Know, the one thing I, I, Mary Jo, the one thing I'll say, you might not feel comfortable doing this, but I, I bought the Google case, which I hate and I found a slim line case. And I have to say, because this phone is so big and bulky mm-hmm <affirmative>, that actually makes a huge difference. It's still big and bulky obvious. But the, the Google case really kind of adds on that problem. This, this is

Leo Laporte (01:07:43):
Similar to the Google case, but it's $9 and it's just that TPU plastic. Yeah, sure. And it's the same thing, right? Yeah. I, I had the Google case cuz Jason, how, let me his, and so I had it for a while. Actually. You want

Paul Thurrott (01:07:58):
To get a case, right? You have to come out though. That's pretty much the only choice. Yeah. You know?

Leo Laporte (01:08:03):
Yeah. Yeah. And Google's, I, you know, I, I ordered it, but I won't get it until next month. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:08:08):
Right. Oh, they're terrible. I would just, just say no to it. Just forget it. The

Leo Laporte (01:08:12):
Google cases are awful. Sorry. I'm not sure if you're talking to me, it says <laugh> wasn't.

Mary Jo Foley (01:08:20):
Yeah, but I'm gonna hold on. I, I have faith that this update is gonna fix it. Cause I like the phone. Otherwise I've gotten used

Paul Thurrott (01:08:27):
To it. I would like it to be smaller, which I don't think they can fix the software. I'd

Mary Jo Foley (01:08:31):
Like it to be lighter. It's heavy. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:08:33):
Yeah. So is the why people are complaining about the iPhone being heavy? It's they, there's more battery. I think iPhones marginally heavier. Really?

Paul Thurrott (01:08:40):
Yeah. The iPhone, the, the max version is for sure it is heavier. It's thicker too. Yeah. Those things are really dense. But you know, I, I had tested, I don't know what it was in anymore. Last sometime last year, like a galaxy 20 ultra that's big and heavy too. You know, like these phones are just, but I, the thing is like, I don't like every phone does it different and every phone does it different year to year. But apple this past year, maybe for the first time the pro and the Promax both have the same cameras. I love that. Cuz you have a choice. They can choose the size. But with the pixel, the smaller one isn't that much smaller, but it has a worse camera. So I'd rather have, I want the, the good camera put the smaller size mm-hmm <affirmative> and they don't offer that. And I don't understand why I

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:26):
Thought they were the same camera. They're not. No.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:30):
Wow. No, there's a telephoto. There's

Leo Laporte (01:09:32):
One extra lens. You get an extra one. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:34):
But I think the other isn't there a difference on the no, then selfie the selfie camera's different too. Yeah. Yeah. The selfie camera on the normal six, I think is the one from the five.

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:43):
It never takes selfie. So I don't care. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:09:45):
No I don't either. What about Samsung? What about Samsung? What about this new I

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:50):
Like the ecosystem you have to buy into this whole extra level of stuff. Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:09:57):
I did. So by the way, I just, because you mentioned Samsung the, the, the computer I'm actually using right now is a loaner it's from Samsung and it's, it's an Evo PC. It's a, I think it's a 14 something screen. It's actually 16 by nine, which is whatever. But it's a beautiful computer in many ways like their phones, but then it's it's it has this thing came with more crap wear than I have ever seen. It came with with more crap wear than every PC I review this year combined. Yeah. That it Samsung Samsung, Samsung. It's crazy. Right. Did it come

Leo Laporte (01:10:28):
New Norton Bitcoin generator or east generator probably see that Norton is now shipping a Ethereum coin, mine with Norton 360 and they take a 15% cut of anything you generate. Well, I mean, Norton's notorious for slowing everything down, but let's, let's really make it

Paul Thurrott (01:10:50):
Bad. Well, Norton protect you from the, the COVID thing cuz I consider it.

Leo Laporte (01:10:54):
No, it's horrible. Can't believe

Paul Thurrott (01:10:57):
It or something. I don't think I've ever experienced. Of course I I move between computers a lot. So maybe this has happened. I don't know when or how this happened, but to get rid of the Samsung crap, I took a, a windows 11 ISO I downloaded from Microsoft and I just, I just blew it away. And thing came up couple of passes with windows update, clean device manager. I thought I'm done good. So I'm using it. Everything's great. No, Samsung junk couple days later, bunch of Samsung crap appeared to this computer. Yep. And I am really curious how that happened. <Laugh> right. So it's not the whole select in, but it downloaded some stuff you could and would want like the Doby access app mm-hmm <affirmative> the Intel graphics command center, but there's like Samsung a Samsung apps on this phone as well. Samsung, Bluetooth sync, Samsung security, Samsung settings. And then a few that don't have Samsung on the front and it's like, ah,

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:52):
Yeah. How

Paul Thurrott (01:11:53):
<Affirmative> I need to figure out how that works. That's interesting. Secret

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:57):
Overnight update.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:00):
Yeah. I mean, they must, these are, I don't know how they were delivered. I'm gonna assume it was through the store. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> cuz their apps, you know, but that's interesting. There's something about the computer that it phones home somehow they, and it delivers these Samsung apps.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:16):
Yeah. That's the thing you can. That's why I, that, that's the only reason I'm really against Samsung because I'm like, I don't need all this layer of stuff, extra stuff I have to go through to be in your ecosystem.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:29):
Right. They do have good camera systems, but again, you have to buy the really big ones to get the best camera and that phone costs, if I'm not mistaken, 1400 bucks, a thousand dollars. Yeah. Oh well over a thousand bucks. So also they cut

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:43):
The color the way they, they render color in their photos. I don't really care for like, I feel like they oversaturate color. Right? Yeah, yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:12:51):
Yeah. Some people really like that obviously. I don't like that. Yeah. But the iPhone has a feature surprising.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:57):
I like the pixel camera

Paul Thurrott (01:12:58):
<Laugh> I do too. No, I do. I I'm with you a hundred percent. Yeah. There's a feature in the camera of the iPhone app that lets you it's, it's sort of like filters, but they're permanent. Yeah. And you could say BA they don't call 'em this, but one of them is obviously pixel and one of them is obviously Samsung <laugh> you, you know, and the Samsung one is overly saturated. Yeah. And if that's what you want <laugh> you know, you can have it. They'll let, they'll let you do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you. I, I, I, I think Google landed in the right place for, I don't know, hyper realism. It's just a little north of real, you know, <affirmative> just a little bit of pop or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. Samsung is, is HDR fantasy land. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:13:46):
Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:13:47):
For sure. Okay. Oh, and then I should say, so there were two other phone announcements at the show of Samsung. I, I don't know why this thing didn't come up, so, but they announced an S 21 Fe for fan edition. This is basically a plastic low cast version of the S 21 three lenses though. I think they're all 12 to 10 megapixels, you know, wide ultra wide and telephoto three X optical, I think. And then one plus this is the one that's maybe more interesting to me kind of preview. They didn't really announce or release, but the one plus 10 pro, which has those hassle blood triple camera system looks beautiful. They're gonna launch that one in China first. They haven't announced the pricing, but this is, I think the first, just in the same way that that Leno Z series is the first Microsoft Pluton based PC. The one plus 10 pro is the first Samsung, what are they calling it? Not Samsung, sorry. Snap in eight gen one or whatever, whatever the new naming scheme is. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> they're gonna have that processor, like all new phones from here on out will have mm-hmm <affirmative> the Samsung has 21 F east has the 8 88 from last year.

Leo Laporte (01:14:55):
Boy, we just did a whole segment on phones.

Mary Jo Foley (01:14:58):
Yep. No we did. <Laugh> it wasn't a lot. And my stuff doesn't even make a phone. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:15:01):
Well, wait a

Paul Thurrott (01:15:02):
Minute. Well, they make something now we'll move on to smart TVs, like a

Leo Laporte (01:15:05):
Phone. Do you miss your duo after all of the whoas Nope. No. Nope. No. In fact they're not putting Android 11 on it after all. That's amazing. See that. Geez.

Mary Jo Foley (01:15:18):
Yeah. Yeah. They, no, they missed the date date, but they said it's coming in Sunday the next few weeks, someday. Next few weeks. It was supposed to come last year. Yeah, it was.

Leo Laporte (01:15:27):
Yeah. I mean, honestly your pixel six is 12, you know? I mean, come on. Yeah. Right. I've been very happy with the pixel six, but I know many are not, but there

Mary Jo Foley (01:15:37):
You go. I'm mostly happy with it mostly. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:15:39):
And you're right about the camera. Okay. Here. Here's my problem with this. I was predisposed to love this thing. Right? You were, I really be big on this thing. So was that, and I was willing, I was willing to put up with some stuff. I mean, I there's always something and I, I it's, it's rushing to me that I don't like this better than I do. And I'd like to think that they're gonna fix some of the stuff, which is why I'm still holding onto it. You never know. But again, I wish it was smaller. I wish it'd had a flat display instead of a curve display hate that. Yeah. I wish it, it charged faster, you know, in the second. Yeah. First hour is pretty quick. Second hours guard,

Mary Jo Foley (01:16:13):
You know, the good, the good news is it doesn't need a lot of charging for me. At least. That's true. Like I can go a couple days

Paul Thurrott (01:16:19):
Without charging. It definitely lasts. Yeah. Well, yeah, certainly through a full day. You're you're good. Yeah. I wouldn't feel comfortable not charging it overnight if, especially if I was gonna go anywhere the next day, but yeah. It but my life is good. There's no is no problem there. I like Android 12, you know, I like the widget stuff they did. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I, and yeah. I just

Mary Jo Foley (01:16:42):
Keep the faith. Paul don't become an iPhone user. That's all I'm gonna say. I

Paul Thurrott (01:16:46):
Look, the truth is I, I test phones all year long, so I always move in and out anyway. But you know, I, I need to need something. I can, I, I need, I know it's gonna work. I know, you know, there's all kinds of other little things. I never talked about the Bluetooth doesn't connect to my car with this. The iPhone works fine. You know, there's all kinds of small things, but it's just, I don't know. I feel like every generation I put up with something with pixel and

Leo Laporte (01:17:13):
It's kind of ironic because the real argument for using windows for years was, well, this is dominant. So everything's more likely to work with it. And now ironically, it's shifted in the iPhone is the dominant mobile platform. So everything works with it. Yeah. Because everybody tests it with an

Paul Thurrott (01:17:29):
Iphone. Yeah. But you know what? I, so there's so many differences between the iPhone and windows. Obviously iPhone is more of a lockdown ecosystem, which can get in the way for sure. It's not as bad as it used to be, but I have to say the iPhone is reliable and stable and just kind of works stogy in a way that I don't it's stodgy. Yeah. But I don't think most people would ever use those terms to describe windows. <Laugh> you know what I mean? Not like you're no, that's a good point. Always had the application compatibility thing. That's huge. I like the UI. I'm gonna use it a lot. I'm used to it obviously I'm efficient using it. But I still have occasions where I go, I'll go upstairs, work on a laptop on the bed or whatever. I pulled this laptop out from the shelf and it's burning hut. <Laugh> it's like, or I've been the other day, there was a laptop over here. I'm working on the computer and then this year I can, and I'm like, what's going on? Is there a snake? No, it's a laptop. And it's, it's sitting there closed. I don't know when I left it there days ago, a week ago. I it's away. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. You know, these are computers, computers,

Leo Laporte (01:18:35):
You know, it's amazing. They're reliable at all. It's they're so,

Paul Thurrott (01:18:39):
I mean, honestly that is no, it's a miracle. I I've said that a million times. It's a miracle. All the different configurations, all the software. I feel like it's fact that these things put up every day and work is a mirror. It's like the

Leo Laporte (01:18:48):
James web telescope opening up, you know, there 600 things can go wrong.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:53):
Please go, yeah, please work. Please work. Please work. <Laugh> and then you hear the windows startup sound, Don.

Leo Laporte (01:19:00):
Let's pause. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> Now we continue. Let's go back to Microsoft. How about that? Why not? What a thought? Why?

Paul Thurrott (01:19:13):
Yeah. I I'm curious if, if I don't know if you saw this story or what you think of this, but the wall street, Mary Jo. That is I mean, not, not that I'm not curious, but Leo thinks, I mean <laugh> but I mean, I just, cuz it kind of is your world. The wall street journal did an article. It was really about how Google has a surge in last year from a cloud computing perspective and by surge <laugh>. I mean they grew its share of the market by one percentage point last year. They are a distant third behind AWS and Microsoft. However, the, the salient statistic here is that. And I, this has to be by red, I suppose, because they're talking about market share, but AWS, Amazon web services has 41% market share in the commercial cloud market compared to just 20% for Microsoft and 6% for Google. So, you know, that sounds great. Most of the story <laugh> okay. Yeah. I was just, I was I'm I'm curious. I always felt like Amazon had kind of a two to one lead. I'm just curious the gap hasn't trunk

Mary Jo Foley (01:20:16):
Gotten. Yeah, I know because so many for a while, so many wall street analysts are out there saying Microsoft's gaining on Amazon, they're getting closer. They're getting closer. In fact, we're predicting, they're gonna over take AWS. And I'm like, where is this coming from? Look, no wait like where? Because Amazon seems to be steam. Rolling ahead. AWS is like a, like a train and I, I, yeah, Microsoft's doing really well with Azure, but they don't seem to be gaining on them. Like any credible analyst. I talk to calls a Azure, a distance second in the enterprise cloud space. Like it's never they're gaining on them or they're they're catching up or they're 10 points away. No, it never is that Aw, AWS, the Google thing is interesting because the way Google is gaining in my view is they're watching what Microsoft does and they're totally copying it. Especially around the enterprise need

Paul Thurrott (01:21:09):
The story. That's exactly what they said. <Laugh> that's that's what exactly do what they said.

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:13):
Yeah, yeah. That's exactly. Because like we, we're doing great with consumers. Google feels like, but you know, we, we're not doing great the enterprise and so you, we, we need more of sales people who understand the enterprise. We need to look at what is Microsoft doing that is so appealing to the enterprise. We do that. Okay. And it's working for them.

Paul Thurrott (01:21:32):
Yeah. I mean, they're so small that they can record big growth numbers. Yeah. But yeah, they're still very distant there just that's

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:42):
How that works. Yeah. So I'm not surprised. You know, I think, I think it would be really interesting if anyone ever break out Azure and look at Azure versus AWS in, in an actual way, like particular

Paul Thurrott (01:21:53):
Workloads maybe or yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:55):
Yeah. because I, I get the feeling that what's different is AWS does more, what they call infrastructure is a service, you know, where you just take a nap and you host it in their cloud. Microsoft is still trying to get people to do platform as a service, which means you rearchitect or newly architect, an app from scratch to be a cloud app and you build it for their cloud. And I think Microsoft's been more successful in that than Amazon has. They have. 

Paul Thurrott (01:22:24):
But yeah, no, they're different businesses. I mean Amazon is like a public service, like electricity or water. Right? Exactly. And then you do, you know, your thing is on them,

Mary Jo Foley (01:22:35):
You know? Yeah. I mean, Microsoft, Microsoft does that. Yeah, too. That true.

Paul Thurrott (01:22:39):
Right. Of course. But Azure has, you know, 1,117 services or whatever. And some of them are that, but you know, they, they, yeah. They want you to run windows were workloads on the cloud, Linux workloads, you know, whatever it's, they

Mary Jo Foley (01:22:53):
Don't care. Microsoft is like, you run it on the OS you want, it's not just, we'll put it on windows server. If you wanna run it on Linux. Sure. We'll put it on Linux. That's good.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:01):
I'm trying to think, you know, from an outsider

Leo Laporte (01:23:05):
Perspective, what the perception is of AWS versus Microsoft.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:10):
Oh, I think the perception is AWS is a no brainer and they don't think about anything

Leo Laporte (01:23:14):
Else. I think it also feels more agnostic even though Microsoft says, oh, we don't care. It doesn't have to be windows. It feels more agnostic. It feels more like, well though, it's just storage. It doesn't have any dog are operating system hunt,

Paul Thurrott (01:23:25):
Every startup on earth. And they're not even startups anymore. These big internet services, it's always AWS, you know? Yeah. Although I, I, the thing that will always help Microsoft is as this becomes more and more important and bigger and bigger, you have to be on multiple clouds for redundancy, purposes of backups or whatever it is. And Microsoft will be, you know, they'll always be the, yeah. The bridesman the other guys scenario, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:23:50):
Yep. It's in, it's really interesting. I mean, I, I, I, I have to think it just comes down to kind of positioning and, and, and how people think of it because from a technical point of view, is there, I don't think there's a difference, right? I mean,

Paul Thurrott (01:24:04):
Well, you could look at like, you know, they talk about like how many data centers they have in the world, a data center regions or actual, you know, yeah. You can kind of compare those things. You can, I, I, you can look at years of the liability and up time. And I know I

Mary Jo Foley (01:24:17):
Don't, you know, no, whenever, so AWS always had more services and more kinds of services because they were there, you know, as the original out vendor, Microsoft just started saying, Microsoft did what Google is doing to Microsoft now. Right. They looked at AWS and said, we need this, they have this, we need this, we need this. And we're gonna put all these out there. And yeah, they basically said, we'll have everything AWS has. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:24:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I, it guy in Maine and I R RRC says, what I think is probably the prevalent point, the view. I don't know if it's true anymore. AWS still has the scale. Azure is primarily appealing for taking the classic Microsoft stack online. That's kind of what I was saying. That's kind of the positioning. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But is it,

Paul Thurrott (01:25:01):
The truth is right. You could take traditional Microsoft stack, but, and put it on AWS. They're very interested to go up that way. You can. And Microsoft does all the stuff that AWS does probably. Yeah. Or at least most of it. We use both. Yeah, no, I think that is correct

Leo Laporte (01:25:14):
For, for our web stuff. We use AWS. We use Azure cuz our, our sales system was written in Azure, do net mm-hmm <affirmative>. So we use Azure for that. We're kind of agnostic, but I don't think I don't, you know, and Russell who makes that choice, I don't think he is, you know, saying, well, lemme see how many data centers AWS has compared to M I think he's just saying, well, that's what Microsoft's for. And that's what AWS is for.

Mary Jo Foley (01:25:40):
Yeah. And originally there was like a lot of price differential, like AWS was cheaper, but then Microsoft started matching them on price and anytime one would cut the price, the other one would cut the price. So that, that distinction went away.

Leo Laporte (01:25:51):
Right. So what could Microsoft do? I mean, there there's an inherent problem, which is they make windows. So people are always gonna think, well, it's kind of for windows,

Paul Thurrott (01:26:00):
AWS doesn't have that problem. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's hard because I think the truth is both companies are going after exactly the same things. Yes. But that perception that 

Leo Laporte (01:26:11):
Somebody in the IRC web 87, 78, 71 says Microsoft could catch up on AWS if they focused on security. Cuz I, I think it's widely felt like, well those S three buckets, they always are getting breached. <Laugh> you know, it's not that secure. Security is on you I guess is probably the perception. Whereas

Paul Thurrott (01:26:30):
We could ask Microsoft needs the, the PR when I keep referencing this, I, I, I have to mention this cuz it's so perfect. I've been going back through all these old Microsoft things from 20 years ago for this series I'm working on, I'll talk about that later. But PDC 2000 opens up bill gates saying, well the last day keynote, he, he does the vision keynote. He says, you know, we don't get a lot of press attention for.net because it's this infrastructure like nobody who cares, how am I gonna get the press to write about garbage collection? And then he says, I gotta thank Oracle. Cuz they had this major, you know, screw up cuz they didn't do garbage collection. Yeah. Yeah. And he is like, I, they put it right in the news and I'm here to tell you we have garbage collection. But yeah. I mean this no it's funny. Like what, what Microsoft needs really is some high profile security problems to occur with AWS because then they can say, Hey, by the way, right. We've solved this problem. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:27:19):
That's the what great way to market yourself. No, the one goes to wait for the other stumble

Paul Thurrott (01:27:23):
And fall and the, well, it's like a analytics chaser of

Mary Jo Foley (01:27:27):
Clouds, you know, there were a bunch of AWS outages right at the end of last year, back to back. So that, that didn't look good. But what, what Microsoft hasn't been doing lately that they were doing a lot like a year ago or so was they when they would go after a customer? They'd say AWS, no, they'd say Amazon is gonna compete with you in your business. So you should go with us instead. Right? Like if you're in the automobile industry or whatever, like, Hey, they're gonna compete with you. Right. So we're not, so why don't you go with us partner? Exactly. They haven't been saying that as much lately, but I'm sure I would bet when they go into calling a customer, they're like, Hey, you know what? They're in the grocery business,

Paul Thurrott (01:28:05):
My marketing tagline would be like, if Amazon basics is good enough for you. Yes. You should choose. Aw <laugh> but if you want the real thing. Yeah, yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:28:14):
You know? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:28:15):
Yeah. It's an interesting

Mary Jo Foley (01:28:18):
Surprise

Leo Laporte (01:28:18):
Me. It's kind of an interesting, you know yeah. Case

Paul Thurrott (01:28:21):
Study. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:28:22):
Yep. It is.

Leo Laporte (01:28:24):
Cause there's no, I don't think there's any technical reason. Microsoft can couldn't compete with Amazon. Well,

Mary Jo Foley (01:28:30):
Right. Yeah. It's just, again, the kind of Amazon's been doing it longer. They've got right. More experience doing it with more customers. They've got you know, I, I, I can't think right off the top of my head of something like Amazon has this and Microsoft doesn't have it. In fact, you could say the opposite. It like Microsoft has also the office suite and the softwares of service products like dynamics and Amazon doesn't really play in those spaces. Right. Like they have chime, but nobody even knows what that is. So right. Yeah. Microsoft has more breadth, but

Paul Thurrott (01:28:59):
That's the point? This is, this is that's

Leo Laporte (01:29:01):
Then why is perception? Google's stronger. Right. Google does have all, you know. Yeah. And Google's a weak distance. Third. They are, you know what though?

Mary Jo Foley (01:29:09):
Google is because they

Paul Thurrott (01:29:10):
Didn't,

Mary Jo Foley (01:29:11):
We know what Google is. They didn't care about the enterprise. Right. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:14):
And we know, right. If you're, if you're an enterprise, you're gonna go with Microsoft. Well,

Leo Laporte (01:29:18):
But wait, we use Google. We use you be G suite now it's workspace.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:22):
Yeah. By the way, that's true. A lot of startups are gonna go through the Google

Leo Laporte (01:29:27):
SB for sure. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:28):
Yeah. But you know what? Google has a really rich history of killing things. Yeah. They're just not,

Leo Laporte (01:29:32):
I think when you get to this part of the market

Paul Thurrott (01:29:34):
Yeah, yeah. You don't wanna find out their whatever S3 storage type thing is going away because blah, blah, blah, who cares? Like you want it to don't

Leo Laporte (01:29:42):
There and work. You don't even know the name of it. <Laugh> yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:46):
Thing they do. Cause there are a million of 'em I mean, right. No, that's pretty funny. I have some kind of S3 glacier, something, something who cares, but the, you know, Amazon's gonna leave that thing sitting there running forever. And so is Microsoft. And I think they're just a little, it's weird that Amazon is trusted this way, but you know, AWS came out of Amazon needing this themselves. And I think that's how a lot of the early Microsoft stuff happened too. It's like, what do we need? It is, you know, and they make these products because they need them, you know? And so I think there's something there's almost like a synergy there, like where, because Amazon was kind of born on the internet, they kind of got the stuff they needed to get ill their own business and they can supply that to to other businesses, you know? Yeah. That's why they got there first

Leo Laporte (01:30:30):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it's it's academic, but it's interesting. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:30:35):
Yeah. Well the, the perception is real by

Leo Laporte (01:30:39):
The way. Are you enjoying December 36th? It's nice, nice day. Isn't it? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:44):
No, actually I used Gmail pre so that didn't didn't

Leo Laporte (01:30:49):
Impact me. Security now is title was December 33rd. That's right, because they were talking about the exchange server FIPs Fs, Y two Y K 22 bug. Yep. And Microsoft's fix was hysterical, which is that they just never ended 2021. Yep. Yep. Little power shell script. And now, so it's December 36th, 20, 21 in Microsoft land. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:19):
Wow. Yeah. Wow. That wasn't that wasn't fun if you were an admin over the holiday weekend, right. On

Leo Laporte (01:31:25):
New year's day. Right. All of a sudden you got the worst hangover of your life and you gotta go in cuz for some reason the mail's not going through. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:35):
So there has been emergency fix at least

Leo Laporte (01:31:38):
<Laugh>. Yeah. But that's the funny thing is the fix.

Mary Jo Foley (01:31:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A power she script, right. Basically.

Leo Laporte (01:31:46):
Yeah. That says, okay, well we're just, you know, cuz I, so yeah, if you, if you want to hear the gory details, Steve does it in security now this week? I'm sure. Just fascinating. Just fascinating. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he says, you know, this was, this goes back so far that probably the guy who wrote this, who did this clever, it was a clever, you know, hack of course that in a 32 bit of energy you could represent the, a a easily calculable versioning system for exchange mm-hmm <affirmative> that broke in the year 20, 22. He probably wrote it 20, 20 figuring. Yeah. And I said, well, do you think he's still around? He said, no, he cashed his stock in <laugh> he's enjoying life and probably going home. I should have thought of that.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:30):
Yeah. Yep. I, I have two interesting tidbits to bring up in this conversation about exchange. So one is this hit 2016 and 2019, the on premises versions. Right? So there was, there's supposed to be another version of exchange coming on premises. It was supposed to be last year. Another one of these products at Microsoft, it was supposed to be out last year, but it didn't ever show up. They

Paul Thurrott (01:32:55):
Probably couldn't release it cuz the date bug <laugh> they were gonna come at 20, 22 and they're like, I don't know. I just won trial.

Mary Jo Foley (01:33:02):
Exactly. No. So I, I asked them I'm like, so whatever happened to that thing, like you're still doing it right. And they said, oh yeah, it's coming. It's just gonna be sometime in 2022. So this is gonna be a version of exchange, just like the SharePoint server that came out last year, which is gonna require you to have a subscription, even though it's on premises. So the subscription will give you the security updates and all your fixes and it's not, it's not something you can avoid, you have to take the subscription or you won't get the on premises product. So that should be that exchange version should be out and testing pretty soon I would think. And then the other weird thing I noticed when I went back and looked at this bug is there was a little short blog post for Microsoft, like in the middle of December when nobody was looking at the blogs and it said, oh, by the way, we, we're not gonna release the exchange server cumulative updates in December, we've decided to postpone them. So there were no cumulative updates with patches and fixes for exchange. It came out in December incidents. I was like, oh, <laugh>, that's weird. Right. yeah. And I wonder if it's connected. I don't, I have no idea if it has anything to do with what happened or if they could have patched it and prevented this from happening. But it's just kind of one of those things that make you go Hmm. Right. <laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:34:20):
Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (01:34:21):
Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:34:22):
Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah. You know, if you guys just move to the cloud, all your problems would be solved. <Laugh>

Mary Jo Foley (01:34:29):
Right. That's what they say. They keep saying that. Well

Leo Laporte (01:34:32):
This might, yeah. This might be the 

Mary Jo Foley (01:34:34):
Straw. A lot of people are like, this is them trying to push me to the cloud. I'm like, so I don't think they're that Mey. I don't.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:41):
And that's dumb anyway, because when you have this kind of a bad experience, you might start looking at other cloud vendors. That's

Leo Laporte (01:34:47):
True. That's right.

Mary Jo Foley (01:34:47):
True. Very

Paul Thurrott (01:34:49):
True. I hope that wasn't

Leo Laporte (01:34:50):
The strategy and I'm hoping it was because of a hangover that the developer team tweeted <laugh> did you see this?

Paul Thurrott (01:34:57):
No. What, what happened? I'd like you to look at, I want you to look at the source code. It's beautiful. Okay. I'm curious. Okay. Don't you

Mary Jo Foley (01:35:05):
Think this was a joke by the way, or do you think this was serious?

Paul Thurrott (01:35:09):
I, according to Scott Hanselman, it was tweeted by a marketing person. Ah, and it was, you know, it, this, I I'm just, I, the reason I want Leo to look at this is so it's I came,

Leo Laporte (01:35:23):
Yeah, it's little JavaScript. If date, time.now C sharp actually. Oh, was a C. Right? So all these alcohol languages look the same.

Paul Thurrott (01:35:31):
If these, our well they're dot net name spaces, if

Leo Laporte (01:35:35):
Datetime.Dot two string equal 1, 1 22 console, right line. Happy new year else. Cons right line. It's still 20, 21.

Paul Thurrott (01:35:45):
So I identified two problems with this immediately. Okay. Before I typed it in. But I'm curious if you looking at it, like, what do you see here that is, could be wrong. Well,

Leo Laporte (01:35:54):
It's only gonna work very briefly for one thing, right. For one second. And it's going back to 20, 22, 20 21. Exactly. Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:03):
If you happen to run it at the exact second,

Leo Laporte (01:36:05):
Instead of you want greater than or equals. Okay. So there's problem one. This one. Yep. I don't know what else.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:13):
Well, the other one is it's still 2021 because use this thing will only be true at that one second. One moment.

Leo Laporte (01:36:21):
No, you run it

Paul Thurrott (01:36:22):
Today. Forever. It's 2022.

Leo Laporte (01:36:24):
Right? This

Paul Thurrott (01:36:25):
Could be 2020, but Scott Hanselman brought up a much more technical problem with this, which is this <laugh>. This is, and this is beautiful. Cause I, I just don't do daytime stuff. I didn't really think of this, but this is beautiful. They convert the daytime to string and then compare that there are daytime comparison operators. Oh yeah. In, in functions, I should say in in C in in D net, you, you don't have to convert it. Like it's like, you're comparing it to a string. That's stupid. Right. And it is stupid. It's really stupid.

Leo Laporte (01:36:56):
Honestly. So whoever did this it's they weren't really, it's just, they didn't intend anybody to run it. That's what I think. Yeah. That's

Paul Thurrott (01:37:04):
What I think. It's but the problem is no, you don't have to run it to know what's wrong. That's what's wrong. See, in other words, this is, this was the windows developer account. The people who follow these guys are developers. Yeah. Like you can't put bad code in a tweet that a lot of

Leo Laporte (01:37:18):
People RET

Paul Thurrott (01:37:19):
It. Yeah. Oh yeah. And they deleted it. <Laugh> so I thought that was kinda funny. That's pretty, I'm not trying to dump on these. Well, yeah, I guess I am, but I just, I mean, it would've been so easy to get this right. You know, so easy even I could write this code. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:37:37):
Well, it's one of, this is one of those bugs that jumps out at you because it's, it's a common error and yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's

Paul Thurrott (01:37:42):
Like, well, you know, I love the two strength thing. That's beautiful.

Leo Laporte (01:37:46):
Yeah. I didn't, I didn't really think about that.

Paul Thurrott (01:37:47):
Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't either. I didn't have to know

Leo Laporte (01:37:50):
What, what libraries you have to know exactly available, but still, but once I

Paul Thurrott (01:37:55):
Saw that, I was like, oh,

Leo Laporte (01:37:56):
That's the kind of thing Hanselman would say, you know, why are you coercing to a string? There's plenty of routines to do that. That's pretty funny. So good. Happy new year from oh, it's over. Nevermind. Back to

Paul Thurrott (01:38:11):
2021, just a blink. You missed it. You

Leo Laporte (01:38:13):
Know what they could say? Well, we that's kind of was the inside joke. It's never 2012. Never

Paul Thurrott (01:38:17):
Stopped,

Leo Laporte (01:38:19):
Never ended. I love Scott Hayman. He wrote an entire CRE about what's

Paul Thurrott (01:38:25):
Wrong with this. I was literally going to write my own version of this. And then I saw he did it and I'm like, oh, you know what? I'll just let him yeah. He knows. But he's

Leo Laporte (01:38:33):
Talking about, he did a 13 minute YouTube video on what exactly is wrong with his code little code review. Yep. Good from us, Scott. I love Scott. I think he's great.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:46):
I also just for whatever it's worth, I put this in a visual studio before I realized he had done it as well. I was also, I was working on this <laugh> I am that much of a new idiot. <Laugh> yep.

Leo Laporte (01:38:57):
And then of course the, the, the thread afterwards. Oh, it's brutal is, is, yeah. So much fun. <Laugh>

Paul Thurrott (01:39:06):
If you, if you like to be corrected, let me recommend Twitter. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:39:10):
God.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:11):
If you there is no contention. You can make, there's no statement. You can make that. No one will argue with it. It, you could say it's the sky is blue and someone will say not where I am, you know, or whatever. Like it's, if you, if you like this to be confronted all the time. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:39:28):
Well that's the Twitter's made Twitter is a to do that's what it's for. Yeah, it is. That's a, that's a funny one. I like that. Probably the same guy I wrote the exchange server version in code. Yes, exactly. <Laugh> it's that guy <laugh> now for a very,

Paul Thurrott (01:39:46):
It is the, it is that same name, space he would be working. Could be,

Leo Laporte (01:39:51):
Could be, yeah. Could be, oh gosh. I wouldn't normally bring this up on a windows podcast, but for one brief shining moment, apple was worth $3 trillion.

Paul Thurrott (01:40:05):
The reason I mentioned this is I think it was the New York times, but one of the places I was reading about this said that Microsoft is expected to hit the milestone sometime in calendar year 20, 22. Oh, neat.

Leo Laporte (01:40:19):
Yep. Yeah. It, I mean, honestly, the real takeaway is how big tech is because that's evaluation. If you take the rest of the other top 10 companies that are non-tech well, you, what this is and add them all together. It's still not, you know, they're worth, it's

Paul Thurrott (01:40:34):
Like market cap behaving like compound interest. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, like it took apple, what? 40 something years to hit the first trillion, right. Two years for the next one. <Laugh> and then like a year and a half. It's kinda amazing. Yeah. It's yeah. It's crazy. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:40:51):
Oh, well, you know, I, no, no point in having Martin mark market kept FOMO you know,

Paul Thurrott (01:40:58):
We're all gonna get there. We're all gonna, well, you look at the, look at the chart. I mean, Google, Amazon. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:41:04):
Yeah. Microsoft, all tech companies though. I

Paul Thurrott (01:41:06):
Gotta point in they're all. Yeah. Yeah. They're all. But they're all right up there. I mean, it's, it's kind of crazy. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:41:12):
By the way, I think it fell back below 3 trillion.

Paul Thurrott (01:41:16):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it, it was the, but, but

Leo Laporte (01:41:18):
Yeah. I mean, it's not good. How close? What is, what is Microsoft's market cap

Paul Thurrott (01:41:21):
Out close? If you look at my article, I stolen image from the New York times that has a a graph that shows you how close they it's very close. That's cool. They're very close. Yeah. They're over 2.5. They're they're somewhere in there.

Leo Laporte (01:41:34):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Paul Thurrott (01:41:35):
I, if my, whatever, come up,

Leo Laporte (01:41:36):
Look at that peak. Look at that giant peak.

Paul Thurrott (01:41:40):
I know it's like a skyscraper.

Leo Laporte (01:41:43):
So that's there's apple, there's Microsoft. There's alphabet 1.9 trillion. Amazon

Paul Thurrott (01:41:49):
That Facebook is even on this chart is to me the most awful thing. Well that

Leo Laporte (01:41:53):
They're not, I can, even,

Paul Thurrott (01:41:54):
You know. Yeah, it shouldn't even be a million, but there they're evil pastors.

Leo Laporte (01:42:02):
Yeah. This is the stat I loved it's worth more than Walmart. Disney, Netflix, Nike, Exxon Coca-Cola Comcast Morgan Stanley. Mcdonald's at T Goldman Sachs. Boeing. IBM Ford combined. Yeah. Yeah. Combined not individually. If you added them all together, I know. Wow. Worth worth more than Bitcoin <laugh> yeah. Good.

Paul Thurrott (01:42:31):
At least they make stuff, I guess. I don't know.

Leo Laporte (01:42:35):
All right. Moving right along, let's do a little Xbox thing and then we will open the lines and and get calls from discord and IRC. And you can ask Mary Jane and Mary Jo, and I don't know, Mary Jane is whoever that is Mary Jo and Paul. Anything you want about any Archie, Archie and Mary Jan are here. <Laugh> what's the Xbox news, Mr. Thra.

Paul Thurrott (01:43:02):
Yeah, there's actually not too, too much of it. Given, you know, what's going on this week and some of this is kind of competitive type stuff, but really early, some like sometime in December early, Microsoft announced the, you know, the games with old titles for this month. Nothing great. <Laugh> honestly, I'm not, I don't, none of them are of interest to me, but you know, they continue doing that program. So that's fine. They also just the other day, I think yesterday announced the first Xbox game pass titles for January. These are across console, PC and cloud, meaning the X, you know, the cloud streaming service. And again, nothing really honestly kind of a small selection, I guess we're just coming outta the holidays. The one potentially interesting one for people might be mass effect, legendary edition. That's kind of a big title.

Paul Thurrott (01:43:50):
But I didn't, I honestly, again, none of these really exciting just today, this is interesting. So MI Microsoft announced that UofS rainbow six extraction is coming to all versions of Xbox game pass on the first day of availability. That's something that happens with a lot of first party titles. The fact that it's happening with a third party title from a game that's expected to be kind of a blockbuster is kind of a big deal. And Hubsoft announced that they're bringing their subscription service to, to Xbox. So they have something called Hubsoft. Plus it's $15 a month. It provides access to a lot like over a hundred of their games on PC only today. And these are the premium version, the games, all the add-ons, all that stuff day, one releases. And then they, I don't know what the ti the number is, but they also allow game streaming to all kinds of different devices from the cloud for some of those titles.

Paul Thurrott (01:44:41):
But it's over a hundred. They're not on Xbox today, so that's coming to Xbox sometime. So, so that's kind of exciting. And again, you know, if for people that don't want to own games, but want a huge selection of games, you have the hundreds of games that are already in Xbox game pass. You have the EA play stuff, which you get, you know, for free as part of Xbox game pass, and you can get the U soft plus stuff on Xbox soon. So that's actually pretty huge. So that's good. And then I think the last, just look at, yeah, the last two are kind of competitive type stuff. Sony announced the second generation VR stuff that will go on PlayStation five. So VR two, which is the headset and VR two sense controller, which is the two controllers, single wire connected to the console.

Paul Thurrott (01:45:24):
And I don't actually know how PlayStation VR worked before, but 110 degree field of view, a foveated rendering, which I don't what that means, but is that good? Yeah. Oh, led displays 4k resolution 2000 by 2040 per I and frame rates 90 or 100 Hertz, I assume that's dependent. It's pretty fun. I think a lot of people who have PlayStations, like the, the VR, it's an easy, accessible way to do it. Yeah. And I'm surprised Microsoft is just ignoring this completely. I am too, maybe connect, burned them so badly that yeah, they don't wanna do it maybe. And who knows maybe that Qualcom thing will, you know, cause something to happen in the expert size. I don't, I don't know. So anyway, that's coming later this year, they didn't announce availability, availability of pricing. But again, this is a, I think this is a big diff differentiated for them compared to Xbox and separately.

Paul Thurrott (01:46:19):
I think this was before CS, but let's say we'll call it part of CS. Samsung announced something called Samsung gaming hub, which is going to allow you to collect different game streaming services into a single interface on 20, 22 Samsung smart TVs. So it's an app, right. But it's starting out with Invidia. Gforce now Google stadia and atomic atomic, atomic, atomic <laugh> I don't even know what that is. I think it it's gotta be UTO UTO who Tomic doesn't know U you to Mike U too. I dunno. So whatever that is. Okay. So like whatever, but they talked how they were gonna bring additional cloud gaming services to the platform in the future as well. Now what other game streaming plan, you know, services are there, Amazon Luna and then obviously Microsoft cloud gaming, Xbox call gaming. So I would assume we're gonna hear an announcement about this, cuz Microsoft wants to get the service on as many devices as possible. Sometime this year's related to some Xbox event or industry event, maybe E three or whatever. So today it's only those service, but I, I do expect we will eventually see Microsoft in there, but not today. Nice. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's all she wrote. Mary, Mary, Jo you're. Okay. You barely felt it survive.

Leo Laporte (01:47:41):
It's not too bad. The pain is over <laugh> I would like to open the lines as it were the lines of communication between our fine audience and our chat rooms and the hosts now I don't know how this works, so you'll just have to bear with us here, but I believe I can push this button and

Paul Thurrott (01:48:06):
Then, you know, nothing has ever gone wrong. I think if I push this, <laugh> the show disappears. All right. So

Leo Laporte (01:48:16):
I so it isn't as simple as pushing a button. I need to turn this knob

Paul Thurrott (01:48:22):
And somewhere in the control room, someone is waving the hands wildly. Do not push that button. And

Leo Laporte (01:48:28):
Now, and now what do I do, John? Do I just say if you're in this chord watching live, we're doing, going to the open, open mic section, the open mic open. Oh, I see. Open mic you're in another voice channel. You wanna switch? I am now open mic is now open. Apparently. we also invite people in our IRC <laugh> to, to join us. Am I an open mic now? There it is. Open mic. Okay. Anthony's in there. Kevs in there. Good, good. That's a good sign. And then in IRC, you just talk in the IRC. This is for people who are watching our live stream. Kevin, you, you, you might kick this off Kevin Brewer from the UK. Hello Kev. Oh, he's muted right now. Do I did do, do I unmute him?

Speaker 6 (01:49:22):
No, I'm on mute now.

Leo Laporte (01:49:23):
Oh, there he does it. He it's I'm here. No one understands how any of this technology works. I'm glad you do Kevin. Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:49:32):
Just a quick question. I see that there may be a new media player coming out for windows 11. Is there any more details on that?

Paul Thurrott (01:49:42):
No, I mean, no Morris is the first we heard, but yeah, there is a new media player coming. I think it is seen as a, like a windows media player replacement,

Mary Jo Foley (01:49:52):
Replacing groove.

Paul Thurrott (01:49:54):
It looks like groove to me. I mean, it looks like the groove interface, but it's, it's gonna also support videos, not just music.

Leo Laporte (01:50:02):
Great. Kevin, thank you for jumping into the fray. And I

Paul Thurrott (01:50:07):
Mean, yeah. You know, the world shuts down over the holidays. So, I mean, I assume actually maybe saw

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:14):
Happening right now about it today. Yeah. I saw something about it today. Starting to roll out to stable. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (01:50:20):
There you go. I just, I was gonna say they might have had a post about it.

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:24):
Yeah. I don't know where I saw it, but I saw it quickly flip by

Paul Thurrott (01:50:29):
<Laugh> no, the windows

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:30):
Silence. It's probably gonna have rounded corners, right? Maybe it was tweeted or something icons. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:50:36):
Okay. It looks a lot labor. Dark mode.

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:39):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:40):
Thank you, Kevin. Great to see you. You welcome. How are things in? You're in Oxford? I think. Where are you?

Speaker 6 (01:50:46):
Yeah. Good. See him. Bye. No, that's right where it's it's in snow tonight. Oh my

Leo Laporte (01:50:52):
Wow. Stay warm.

Speaker 6 (01:50:54):
Yes I am. We're gonna

Leo Laporte (01:50:56):
Go, go down the road. Just a little piece to red con five, who is also joining us in our voice chat. Go ahead, Matt. Right? Oh, he doesn't have a headset or something. I see that symbol. What does that mean? Means nothing. <Laugh> I don't know. Oh, there he's undo. He's undone it. Now he can hear I gonna say, go ahead. Symbol too. Go ahead. Red con yeah. I I'm muted intentionally. Are you there?

Speaker 6 (01:51:29):
You need to unmute back com <laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:51:33):
This is a little party. We're having a little party in the disc. Oh yeah. She

Speaker 6 (01:51:39):
Stole my mic from here. You can't how old?

Leo Laporte (01:51:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Well I, no, I mean, I don't, I don't care. It's fine. How about stoic? Go ahead. You can, you can say something while Matthew who figures out is he's only an it guy. Why would he know how to do that? Go ahead. Stoic. Is it me?

Paul Thurrott (01:51:59):
I mean, I could throw in a couple of extra Xbox stories. You guys are. No, no, no, go

Mary Jo Foley (01:52:03):
Please. Somebody get a question on here. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:52:06):
There you go. Go ahead. Please get voice story. What, what do I Kevin's helping us? I don't know. I don't know what to do. Yeah, it's the

Speaker 6 (01:52:14):
Mute button on our controller. So reccon, if you see down on your screen, there's a microphone next to the end call. You have to unmute that before you can speak to the studio. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:52:28):
I think Matthew knows how to do that. Stoic you're unmuted, but I don't hear anything from you. Why, why don't you try saying something? Oh, this is just not going well. This is just,

Paul Thurrott (01:52:40):
I don't know what it is. It's another great year. <Laugh> <laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:52:47):
We are, this is the discord, which is part of our club TWI membership, but by the way went over 4,000 this year. Oh wow. Which is really great. We're very, very pleased. We have a number of corporate members, I think three corporate memberships, which means a bunch of people. And we thank you all for you, your support. That's one of the benefits you get to watch discord, not work for you. If you <laugh> actually, the discord is really a lot of fun. We do a lot of things in there. We're gonna have a Andy and ACOs gonna do a AMA next week. Stacy does her book club in there. Next month, Mike ELGAN and Amira ELGAN will join us to talk about gastro Noma. Of course the GIZ for is the untitled Linux show. There's lots of stuff in there. Oh, Matthew says he's restarting discord. So we'll let him do that. How about Newman? Hello, Newman. <Laugh>

Speaker 7 (01:53:38):
Hey guys

Leo Laporte (01:53:39):
Can hear me. Okay. We hear you. Great. Hi Newman. Excellent.

Speaker 7 (01:53:42):
Excellent. So I had a question regarding Microsoft and their Android endeavors. Do you guys think they'll ever get the duo? Right? Are they gonna take another crack at it or, I mean, do they, do they have the resources dedicated to this?

Leo Laporte (01:53:55):
They're gonna do a du oh three. Aren't they? Mary Jo. I

Mary Jo Foley (01:53:58):
Bet they are. Yeah. I I'm guessing they will because, and the reason I say that is I was just looking today at all the resources they've got up on docs, not microsoft.com for developers, for the duo. And I'm like, they're not gonna just keep pouring money into that and people into that, if they're just gonna drop it. Right. <laugh>

Speaker 7 (01:54:16):
Yeah. Right. Okay. I, I, I really hope that

Mary Jo Foley (01:54:20):
I love the hard, yeah. It takes three tries for Microsoft to come up with a product. That's pretty good. It's it's not even a joke anymore. It's real.

Leo Laporte (01:54:29):
It's really become written in stone. Yeah. It's a, it has <laugh> it

Mary Jo Foley (01:54:33):
Really is. Okay. So maybe, maybe version three.

Leo Laporte (01:54:36):
Do noon. Do you have one? Did you own one or did you just think about it? No, I

Speaker 7 (01:54:40):
Tried the dual one and I returned it. I pretty much what you guys did for as I recall. Yeah. I, I just the Harbor concept. I really like, I know Paul, me too. Doesn't really agree, but I love idea. I like to see myself using that.

Leo Laporte (01:54:54):
Yeah. I don't think less of you need figure. We disagree. No, I think nine outta 10 barns. Like the du oh three, the duo two, I believe. Are you a Barnell? What are you exactly?

Speaker 7 (01:55:07):
I'm not sure what I am. A friend of mine did that. <Laugh> he's a,

Leo Laporte (01:55:11):
A bird of some kind. It looks like an L anyway. Thank you for participating. We appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (01:55:16):
Well, thank you guys. I really like the clip TWI.

Leo Laporte (01:55:19):
I'm glad. Oh yeah. Thank you so much for joining. I it's, I'm really grateful. Yeah. To all of our members. Yeah. Hey, Leo care guys.

Speaker 7 (01:55:25):
There's is that

Leo Laporte (01:55:26):
Matthew? Redon five re I'm sorry. Red con five. It's Redon five, speak up now. Turn your volume up all the way. Oh, you're a little quiet. Hello, Redon. Five. Can you hear me now? Yeah, I hear you. Can you hear me now? Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:55:43):
Okay. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah, I was using voice meter on this particular computer and voice meter does all kinds of stuff under the, under the hood for routing. Oh, it's audio and it really, really messes up. Yeah. If I was on my other rig on my Mac, I would be using sound devices, a mix pre six as my actual nice. The audio interface, fancy. And and I went out and got a a hi, a hi microphone as well. Are you planning on doing a podcast Reon or I just record, sometimes I play around with voiceover. Nice.

Paul Thurrott (01:56:24):
I was gonna say you sound really clean. Yeah, the sound is good. Is low. It's still low. If you could boost it a little bit more, that'd be great. We can't get it. You're turned all the way up on my board.

Speaker 8 (01:56:34):
I will do that right now. How about nice. Yeah. Okay. Using a, this is my lesser R I'm using AEN Heiser wired headphone gaming. He phone that the sound

Paul Thurrott (01:56:50):
Quality is good. That sounds great. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:56:53):
Well, I really enjoy the show and thanks, Paul and Mary Jo, and it's been fun to be, I think I've been watching you guys for going on three years now or more. Wow. Wow. Thank you.

Paul Thurrott (01:57:04):
I'm so sorry, but thank you. So

Speaker 8 (01:57:07):
I need, I want to try out your, your version of notepad 

Paul Thurrott (01:57:11):
Okay. Call. Yeah. Where can he get that? So that's that that's gonna happen very soon. So I, I, I, I keep alluding to this, but I I've restarted my, or started working again on my programming windows series on my site and attached to that is I had put, I think there are four different versions of the app up in GitHub, but I've never made it available to the public. And with each of them, when you bring them down into visual studio, there's a couple little things you have to do to make them work. Right. So I'm gonna write about that and then I'm gonna fix them and I'll update the, the wind forms and the WPF versions to dot net six, and then I'm gonna post them to GitHub and I'll, I'll make that public. So that's gonna happen. It will be this month, short versions.

Speaker 8 (01:58:02):
That's fantastic. Great news. I, I mean, I'm a fan of note plus notepad

Paul Thurrott (01:58:08):
Plus plus. Yeah, it's not that sophisticated, but I, you know, originally I just wanted to duplicate notepad, you know, and I, I think I pretty much did. But the WPF version in particular has some stuff that's not a notepad, which I think is kind of cool, like themes and auto save. And then the the UW P version is just weird cuz it's UWP, but it, it's kind of cool looking. It's not, it's not as efficient as the desktop versions, but anyway, yeah, it'll be this spot. It'll be this month.

Speaker 8 (01:58:37):
I I'm sure you'll have a lot of happy testers and get a lot of feedback

Leo Laporte (01:58:42):
From yeah. And people who actually know how to code that can fix it or make it better, you know, for sure. I, I think does coding, are you a, do net, have you done some.net stuff?

Speaker 8 (01:58:52):
I've done a little bit in.net. I actually use the power shell code more, which has almost all the same analogous I guess syntax and, and parameters and, and modules. You could hit that date. I don't really big time

Leo Laporte (01:59:09):
Name spaces in there somewhere for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:59:12):
Time. Yeah. I was gonna, I was gonna, I was gonna try to make a one liner. I was gonna try to write a one liner that would do better than the guy who was, I think we could instant. Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:59:23):
And always, and I guess maybe this is how it's done in Microsoft land, but those braces sitting alone on a line that just bug the hell outta me. It's like, you're wasting so much space. Maybe that's how they do it in in the sea sharp land. But it is, it is like they don't like it, you know, in list bland. We, we make all the parentheses together to make, to keep the outsiders baffled. So <laugh>, it's good to talk to you red con five.

Speaker 8 (01:59:53):
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Sorry that no, no, that's fine. I'm not that not that quick with the computer. It turns out <laugh> no,

Leo Laporte (02:00:00):
You thought you weren't in yet.

Speaker 8 (02:00:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know. I was going to be invited into this open mic,

Leo Laporte (02:00:07):
So yeah, we didn't really. Yeah, exactly. We're kind of, and you know, we'll just, we'll cut out the misfires. It'll all be fun. No one will know, but

Speaker 8 (02:00:15):
Discord is a lot of fun and I would encourage anybody that's listening otherwise or in our IRC world that to do join up if they haven't, if they can,

Leo Laporte (02:00:24):
You're in both IRC and discord. And I have to say the, you know, the animated gifts that we <laugh>, we get in the discord really animate the conversation. They're a lot of fun people take that very seriously. But the other side of, of discord that I love, I mean really is a you know, you could see on the lefty of all sorts of topics that we cover. It's a great place. It's a community, you know, where we can go in and, and hang out with like-minded people and talk about all sorts of interesting stuff. So I really, I really like that and we are very glad to have you as a part of it. Rick hunt five. Thank you. You sounded great. Well, yeah. Thank

Speaker 8 (02:01:01):
You. Thank you very much. I am. I'm finishing up my lunch now and I need to get back to work back to

Leo Laporte (02:01:08):
Work. I won't tell anybody where you work. I happen to know, but we won't mention the famous place for which he does it. Oh, is he responsible for that exchange thing? Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. A little power shell script here and there. You never know what's gonna happen. Let me try again again. Power. Let me try again. If we get stoic to cuz he seems to be there and he is making noise, but I don't, I don't actually hear anything. You hear me now? Yeah. I hear you now. Go ahead. Stoic. Thank you for being patient with us.

Speaker 8 (02:01:36):
I was wondering if anybody knew when 

Speaker 9 (02:01:39):
Windows a pro with a LTE is gonna be released. I keep on hearing 20, 22, but it's not tied

Leo Laporte (02:01:45):
Down. Oh, I like this. We can see you. It service. He's got video. How fun is that? A oh, look at that. He's also got a duo. Oh, now

Paul Thurrott (02:01:55):
He's just mocking me. He's just mocking. He's got

Mary Jo Foley (02:01:57):
The black one.

Leo Laporte (02:01:59):
Nice look at that camera bump. That is massive. <Laugh> holy, holy cow. So with my P pro

Mary Jo Foley (02:02:06):
Eight with LTE, I didn't even know. They promised that, is that a for sure thing? They did.

Paul Thurrott (02:02:13):
There's no date. And they, I feel like there was at least one other surface pro device. I think that they promised LTE and then never delivered it with one gen. If

Mary Jo Foley (02:02:25):
One just came out this week though, surface go three with

Paul Thurrott (02:02:29):
LTE just came out. Yeah. No he means, but he wants the, he want pro at I

Mary Jo Foley (02:02:32):
Know. Yeah. I know.

Leo Laporte (02:02:33):
I know. Yeah. Verizon's selling that go three. Right? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was at and T somebody at and T I

Mary Jo Foley (02:02:40):
Think is and T

Paul Thurrott (02:02:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, they haven't. Yeah. I haven't heard anything about it. This would've been the week. <Laugh> you think? Stoic. Where

Leo Laporte (02:02:49):
Are you? But now they, where are you located? Bearwater Florida. Nice. How's the weather. Is it sunny and warm? Yes, it is on my way. Oh, there you. Hey, thanks for I didn't in

Speaker 9 (02:03:04):
Chicago. So I'm I'm missing cold.

Leo Laporte (02:03:06):
You're a snowboard. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize I'm so glad you did video. Cause I didn't realize we had that capability. So anybody who wants to show their face in here more than

Paul Thurrott (02:03:15):
Welcome. Oh man. It's only a matter of time before we have like Snapchat type, you know, facial coverings and stuff. And

Leo Laporte (02:03:23):
I don't think, do we, do we have that kind of filters here? Can you make yourself a Katie cat? I don't think so. I think you have to do that.

Paul Thurrott (02:03:29):
You'd have to do that. You can. I'm totally doing it. That's how the rest <laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:03:34):
Thank you. Stoic. Have a great day. Anybody else? In the IRC as well. Don't forget. You can also type I'm question. Really a cat. I'm not a cat, your honor. <Laugh> not a cat. Or in the in the discord. Just, I don't know how you don't have to raise your hand if you're in the discord voice chat. I'll know you're there. And I can, I can

Paul Thurrott (02:04:00):
Click on ask Microsoft about the service pro eight with LTE. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:04:07):
See if I can figure they make nothing to share. They don't have a service pro with LTE at all. That's that's a little weird.

Paul Thurrott (02:04:11):
That's how they're gonna. Yeah, no, they did say it was coming

Leo Laporte (02:04:15):
JT in the IRC with a question Paul with will the Xbox game pass ultimate Evers stream, PC versions of the games instead of only streaming the console version. He says, I love that the stadia lets you know, Google's solution lets me use my keyboard or mouse, but Xbox streaming's almost entirely limited to the controller.

Paul Thurrott (02:04:35):
That'ss a great question. I mean we know that they're using Xbox series X in the data centers. Yeah, I mean I right now, so game streaming. Yeah. There's no reason this couldn't happen. Game stream is a, a feature of ultimate, right. Which is covers console and PC. I'd love to see that happen.

Leo Laporte (02:04:54):
He does point out there are some Xbox games let you use keyboard and mask, but yeah, there's still the Xbox version of it. And so

Paul Thurrott (02:05:01):
It's yeah, I mean, I, I would guess that most people who stream games are probably using mobile devices, which is something I would never do. But of course you can, you can stream to a big TV, you can stream to a computer. And yeah, it's controller based, but yeah, I <affirmative>, they have never said anything about that, but I think that would be a logical expansion of the service. Yeah. It's a good idea.

Leo Laporte (02:05:24):
I want everybody to get comfortable with these these AMAs, cuz we, we would really love to do questions in every episode of when weekly, in fact of every episode of our shows. So the more of you who participate so thank you to all of our questioners, to Kev and stoic and Brett con five 

Paul Thurrott (02:05:46):
We should just call it stump the dopes

Leo Laporte (02:05:48):
Stump, the dopes it's we'll get a little jingle made and everything. <Laugh>

Speaker 10 (02:05:54):
Time for stump. The dos. What is Pluto on?

Leo Laporte (02:05:59):
Is it a

Speaker 10 (02:06:00):
Chip? It's this trip? Is it? No one knows.

Paul Thurrott (02:06:05):
Right? Why are we talking about this? Yeah, it's

Leo Laporte (02:06:09):
All right. Put your photo balls on Stu because we are going to go to the back of the book right after this back of the book. I let's see here, start off with the Paul throt and a little bit of a tip the first tip of the new year.

Paul Thurrott (02:06:26):
So as I alluded to several times, <laugh> throughout the show for some reason. And then the, one of the people asked me a question that led to this as well. I, two years ago wrote a series called programming windows, which has over 50 articles in describing the history of windows from the perspective of the developer stuff that was going on at the time. Cause I think it's kind of an interesting angle on the history and I kind of let it drop@thebeginningofthe.net era in part, because I knew Richard Campbell was working on a dot net history book and I didn't wanna step all over that. But one of the other things I did and you know, can up during that call was I created actually four versions of a notepad app windows forms using visual basic and then C and then WPF using C sharp and then UWP was C sharp as a way to familiarize myself with the more modern.net era and beyond programming environments, because that's kind of when I drop off the face of the earth from a programming perspective and I wasn't super familiar with it.

Paul Thurrott (02:07:26):
So all that stuff's coming back <laugh> so I've already written, I think three articles this month and every couple days I'm gonna post another one. I'll I'll cover at least 15 years worth of stuff. It's not all about.net. It's just the do net era, a lot, most of it's about windows, but you have to kind of explain.net, which is a, you know, <laugh> just a disaster anyway. But Mary Jo, interestingly you may know this, I mean, Richard Campbell has given a history of.net speech many times and a lot of them are recorded and you and I both come up during these videos really, are you part of the history of.net? Yeah. And and and Mary Jo plays a much more prominent role and because, and you'll remember this better than I do, I did, but I think it was silver light. It disappeared from PDC one year. And you asked by,

Mary Jo Foley (02:08:15):
Oh man, did he bring this up in one of the videos? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (02:08:19):
And Bob left Microsoft like three weeks later. And I think you, you killed

Mary Jo Foley (02:08:23):
Bob Muglia guys. This was one of the worst events of my career. Like in many ways <laugh> okay. What happened? No. What happened was so silver light, you know, which was, which Microsoft was trying to position at one point as an alternative to Adobe flash. Right? Like it was kind of that

Paul Thurrott (02:08:43):
It was.net in the, for web browsers. Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (02:08:46):
Yeah. Yeah. So like Microsoft just stopped talking about it for a while. And I was doing an interview with Bob Muglia, who was like a big VP at the time. Right. And I just said to him in the middle of the interview, so what's going on with silver light and he, I guess he decided then and there, like, I'm gonna tell Mary Jo what's happening. He just wanted

Paul Thurrott (02:09:05):
It out. Oh,

Mary Jo Foley (02:09:06):
He's like, yeah. So our whole strategy with silver light has shifted and we're not really doing that anymore. Blah, blah, blah. So I went back to my hotel room and I was like, should I write this? Wow. Oh my God. And so I just sat there and typed the article and I posted it and I came outta my hotel room. Do you went downstairs? What did you,

Paul Thurrott (02:09:23):
Do you remember what you called it? Like, what was the title probably, or

Mary Jo Foley (02:09:26):
I don't know. But if you look up on Google, our strategy has shifted and silver light. And my name, you will find this because, because when I came downstairs at the show, a guy saw me from Microsoft and he goes, you've gotta leave right now. And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, leave the, leave the campus. I'm like leave the campus. And he goes, Mary Jo people are looking for you. And I think they're gonna hurt you. I think they're gonna really hurt you. And I'm like, what? And he goes, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna escort you off the campus right now. Because people who have bet their whole career ears on silver light, they thought I made it up and they thought I was trying to kill silver light. And I'm like, no, I didn't make this up. He said it.

Paul Thurrott (02:10:05):
I love the, I love the, I love to kill the messenger mentality, but wait a minute. Yeah. The, the, so I found the article, the

Leo Laporte (02:10:11):
Punchline of this story is, do you know who replaced Bob Muglia?

Mary Jo Foley (02:10:16):
Who did

Leo Laporte (02:10:16):
Replace a guy named? Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (02:10:19):
That's right. Well, yeah, right for that division, right. <Laugh> yeah, yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:10:23):
Yeah, yeah. So's you could actually take credit to the new CEO of Microsoft.

Mary Jo Foley (02:10:29):
No, wait, I gotta tell you this part though. So when everybody started attacking me and sending me all these horrible messages, Bob Muglia sends me an email and he goes, wow, I see people really going after you, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go public and say that you were right. And I told you this and he did.

Leo Laporte (02:10:44):
Wow, good. You know what? That she's such a standup guy stand up. That's amazing. Had

Paul Thurrott (02:10:49):
This amount of credibility.

Leo Laporte (02:10:51):
Yeah, I know

Mary Jo Foley (02:10:52):
We could do. And then he got fired or left. I don't know what happened. Like a couple weeks.

Leo Laporte (02:10:56):
I'm looking at I'm looking at his. So here's his Wikipedia entry says in October, 2010 developers criticized Mo for suggesting Microsoft will put less emphasis on silver light a statement. He later retracted. No, he didn't retract it. Yeah. I think that's an error.

Paul Thurrott (02:11:12):
So here's what really happens. Why they killed it. Steve jobs came out against flash, right? And flash was the same sort of browser, you know, thing. And it really killed your battery life and was really unreliable and horrible. He gave you all these additional features and silver light was the exact same kind of plugin. So basically Steve jobs by going after Adobe flash caused that, those types of things to do, they had to it. Cause no one was ever gonna use. The other browsers were never gonna support it. No, I mean,

Mary Jo Foley (02:11:46):
Look, I'm like, my heart is pounding, remembering this. Cause it was so scary. I was so scary. Like the guys took me off campus and they put me on a and they just like, get outta here, just leave.

Leo Laporte (02:11:56):
Get out. You obviously had friends who didn't want you to see you hurt all of <laugh>. Yeah. I didn't think it was this dramatic. The real people were upset was, was the developer community, which was developing for so life. Well, those guys have

Paul Thurrott (02:12:10):
Been facing me when I, when I talked to them honestly about UWP. So I can't imagine they would've

Leo Laporte (02:12:15):
Behaved in this way. Didn't didn't Netflix run on silver lake. Yeah. Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (02:12:19):
It did. Yeah, it

Leo Laporte (02:12:20):
Did. Yep. Yeah. Oh,

Paul Thurrott (02:12:21):
They had, by the way, there was an Olympics that ran on silver light. They streamed the Olympics over silver light. Yeah. Year.

Leo Laporte (02:12:27):
That was your compan. Your companion animal has come into to reassure.

Mary Jo Foley (02:12:31):
I, I know he heard

Leo Laporte (02:12:32):
That I was bring the blood pressure down. Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah. <Laugh> 

Mary Jo Foley (02:12:38):
Oh, that was just so bad. And Bob Muley was such a great guy. Like he's still around he's you know, then he became CEO of snowflake or whatever. Great.

Leo Laporte (02:12:45):
He's actually, I think he's kind of retired now. He's he has,

Mary Jo Foley (02:12:48):
I think he's kind of retired now, but yeah, he's still Paul. Me maybe he's the guy. No, he's the guy who did the exchange Y2K bug because he wanted to, I

Paul Thurrott (02:12:56):
Dont think, I don't think he had anything to do with

Mary Jo Foley (02:12:59):
<Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:13:00):
Well, don't start anymore. Rumors. You already killed him once. Mary Joe, let's not to

Paul Thurrott (02:13:05):
Mistype his name as bog Malia <laugh> it was some kind weird typewritten from now on

Leo Laporte (02:13:12):
To protect his identity. Let's use that as his code name in future conversation. That's what it says on his passport mob.

Mary Jo Foley (02:13:19):
A guy. He was so much fun. Great

Leo Laporte (02:13:21):
Guy. Oh, nice. And did he pronounce it? Muglia or Muya? Cuz that's it would be mu in Muglia

Mary Jo Foley (02:13:28):
Muglia okay.

Leo Laporte (02:13:28):
Yep. Maybe thought said it too weird. <Laugh> Molia anyway, he did fine. He survived. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (02:13:40):
I'm still here. Everybody's

Leo Laporte (02:13:41):
Still here and thanks to you. Satya Adela had a job. And so all of that worked out for, for the best

Mary Jo Foley (02:13:46):
Silver. Right? Not so fine, but you know what? You were right.

Leo Laporte (02:13:49):
You were

Paul Thurrott (02:13:49):
Right. Well, so I just typed what he said. <Laugh> silver light was used in windows phone and obviously after windows fund seven, they got rid of silver light and they went to a, I don't know what it was called. The windows phone eight. I dunno. What was it called? I don't know. Whatever, but

Mary Jo Foley (02:14:07):
It has so many names, right? <Laugh> yep. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (02:14:10):
So what, yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna make up a t-shirt that said Mary Jo Foley killed cite and I'm gonna sell it at the next. I'm gonna make a million bucks. Put

Mary Jo Foley (02:14:22):
My head on the back with like a thing.

Leo Laporte (02:14:24):
Don't your face? The, just get an arrow that says this person killed cite and put, stay next to her and you're go. That's good. I'm with the Roman Joe. Oh God. All right. Oh man. So that will be part of your epic programming windows series. <Laugh> I? Yes. Think as I remember, you have to be a premium member at, throughout.com. So this would be good

Paul Thurrott (02:14:45):
Time to up your sub non premium. You can read three each month. 

Leo Laporte (02:14:49):
There is a new year sale though. So this is a good time. If you're not yet a premium member, I believe I am to get your premium subscription now

Paul Thurrott (02:14:59):
Throt I've been, I, I, it is, I it's, I have spent the past few weeks living in the year 2000 and it is not a good year. Amazing. No, it's amazing. Really? Oh yeah. It's a mess. It's a mess. The, the Microsoft story is broken promises, like dot net. You know, everyone points to Longhorn. I, I do as well as they promised all this stuff and they never delivered it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> go back and look@whattheypromisedfor.net, by the way, within. Yeah. Within, I think it was that year. I think same year, I think within three or four months, it was a complete reorganization and they, they fired the guy in charge of the stuff. They, they completely scaled back. What they promised do net became a completely different do net originally was gonna be a much, much, much bigger thing it was

Mary Jo Foley (02:15:44):
Than. And then every time we, I don't know if you remember this, anytime we reported on it, they're like, yeah, you just didn't understand what we said. We didn't scale it back. I'm like,

Paul Thurrott (02:15:51):
No. Oh no, they, we, no, no, no. He did. They, they held it back dramatically

Leo Laporte (02:15:57):
And your story was really accurate, which was that HTML five had kind of superseded it anyway. Yeah. And

Paul Thurrott (02:16:03):
That's what that's that's well, yeah, they, yeah, they always struggled with that. I, the, I wrote the final article in the series already and it's called Microsoft fought the web and the web won. Yeah. Mm

Leo Laporte (02:16:15):
That's good. That's a good way to think of it. I think. And this is the, I don't think you should. I don't think there's any blame devolving on Microsoft because this is technology. This stuff is, this is history. This is just the worst thing thing to do would

Paul Thurrott (02:16:29):
Be put, you know, plan a flag and say, well, no, we, we said silver, light's gonna be big. We're gonna keep doing it. Yep. Yeah. And down and go down that road. That's not what it's, it's astonishing. How much has changed in the past 20 years. Yeah, but the other thing, you know, bill gates is a problematic individual. I think we can all agree to that. However, go back and just watch any one of his speeches. Watch PDC 2000 and listen to all the stuff he predicts. That's gonna happen. That is totally the way the world works now. Yeah. Like stuff that just was not a thing, then it's, it's astonishing. How often he just talks about just throws it out. Like this is what the world's gonna be like. And yet he missed the internet almost entirely. And yep. Did a quick U-turn I think though, once he got that religion. Oh, he got it big. Was that the road ahead? Was that his book? The road ahead was the book. Yeah. That came out in 1995 probably. Yeah. And that was pretty accurate. Well, except the original edition. Didn't talk about the internet that much, except for that thing about the yeah. Well they quickly was

Mary Jo Foley (02:17:31):
The edit. No one we can update it.

Paul Thurrott (02:17:33):
No one knew they, they updated a surprise to us all code name and app pick. So Mary Jo completely Bo I did this from me without even asking, but no, that's fine. Cuz I <laugh>.

Mary Jo Foley (02:17:47):
Hey, wait a minute. Here's what happened? I put this as the code name, pick of the week and then he stole it, but okay.

Paul Thurrott (02:17:54):
No, that's not what happened. It's this is not what appeared <laugh> no, yeah, it's fine. It's all good. Get well, who gets to do this? Mary Jo gets to all right. I can

Mary Jo Foley (02:18:03):
Do it. Yep. So we're talking a lot on the show today about things that were supposed to show up last year that like are likely are gonna be this year. So here's another one project Monarch project. Monarch is the code name for what's also called one outlook. So Microsoft's redoing outlook completely. Right. they're trying to make it the same code on the web, on windows, on Android, on iOS and introduce us as one common version of outlook. And it's mostly gonna be like outlook for the web adapted to all these other platforms. So that was supposed to debut at least in preview in 2021, based on all the rumors and it is being used inside Microsoft. Like they're dog fooding this right now in Microsoft. In fact, today I wanna up to the Monarch site because I know where it is and I tried to gain access and I get a nasty note from the SharePoint administrator said, no, you cannot have access. So yeah, it's being tested. They're not letting me test it, but it's being tested. Did he

Paul Thurrott (02:19:05):
Mention Bob Mogley

Mary Jo Foley (02:19:06):
At any point? What I hear is this is gonna be out this year. So I think we're gonna hear about the preview of this very soon. Like I think this spring you're, they're gonna announce one outlook or maybe they're just gonna call it outlook probably. Right. They're not gonna call it one outlook, but that's what it is. The re the revisiting and recoding of outlook to make it common across all the platforms. And then the other part of the rumor was they're gonna take out this one outlook and they're gonna replace the mail and the calendar app that are built into windows. That a lot of people don't like with this one outlook, I think this could show up in the version of windows 11. That's coming out this fall may not be finalized, but I think there may be an option for people who go on this version of windows 11, whatever they call it, windows 11, October update or H two or whatever. And they'll have an option to try out this one outlook built into windows 11. So yeah, it's coming, coming soon. TM,

Leo Laporte (02:20:07):
TM. There you go. Trademark or PM. Project Monarch

Mary Jo Foley (02:20:12):
Project Monarch. Yep.

Leo Laporte (02:20:14):
Yep. How about as long as we're talking an enterprise pick of

Mary Jo Foley (02:20:19):
The week? Yeah, so it wasn't just a bad week for exchange. It wasn't a great week for windows server and windows 10 enter prize either this week. There was a bug that some people were encountering where they couldn't use remote desktop to reach their server and Microsoft today. In fact, released an out of band patch a week ahead of patch Tuesday for windows server 2019 for window 10 version 1809 for X 60 forearm and X 86 systems. So if you're somebody who's been having this issue, go and look for this out band patch I don't know what caused that to happen. It, they just said, it's a known issue that might prevent you from using remote desktop to reach your server. And the server may stop responding. So if you're having that go look for the outand patch.

Leo Laporte (02:21:13):
Okay. Outand patch. I am ready for a beer that tastes like a dessert.

Mary Jo Foley (02:21:22):
Yes. So start of the year, you know, you need a little celebratory beer. Yes. I was home for the holidays this year, visiting my mom in Framingham. Oh. And so there's a great crap brewery in Framingham called Jack a, they make a lot of delicious loggers, primarily, although some ales as well. And they have their flagship beer is called Framingham a not to Framingham. It's a Baltic Porter. So very heavy Dew, big Porter. This one I'm gonna make my pick is 12% <laugh> yeah, so they, they do all these different variants of framing hammer. And this year they're doing a lot of dessert ones that are aged in bourbon barrels. They're the one that is my pick is called salted caramel barrel aged framing hammer. If you like salted caramels, you'll like the spear <laugh> it tastes chocolatey, caramelly. I don't know how they do it, but they do some magic with the bourbon barrel and some magic with the BIC Porter, a little bit salty, but not very salty. And yeah, it's a true delicious dessert beer. One of the many special variants they do of this beer called framing hammer.

Leo Laporte (02:22:33):
I've heard of Jack Savi. It must be through you though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause you've, you've mentioned

Mary Jo Foley (02:22:38):
It before. I think I've done different framing hammers before I think because they, they make so many different ones. But yeah, they're all delicious. Pretty much

Leo Laporte (02:22:45):
Hunter. Joe says they should call it framing hammered. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (02:22:49):
You'll be hammered if you drink too many. Yeah. Too many framing hammers <laugh> yes. Youll.

Leo Laporte (02:22:58):
Yeah. Ah, you know what? You, this was a fun show. I thought, I thought it went very well. Had a good time. It was very nice to get back in this saddle with Paul and Mary Jo, our first show of 2022. It's gonna be a good year. I think lots of stuff to talk about. You'll find Mary Jo's writing who knows who know who's she gonna be head next at Microsoft? <Laugh> it's very exciting. Who writes receiving at it all about Microsoft? That was that preceding parts, even talk to you anymore. That was this Z net article that you'd get. Yes.

Mary Jo Foley (02:23:30):
Micah posted it in the discord. In fact, the actual article

Leo Laporte (02:23:34):
<Laugh> we were showing it. Oh

Mary Jo Foley (02:23:36):
Yeah. I'm having a little PTSD on this one. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:23:38):
Sorry. Sorry. I didn't realize it was that dramatic. I'm

Mary Jo Foley (02:23:41):
Sorry. It was very traumatic and very scary. Cuz it went on for a while. Everybody blew blaming me for them losing their livelihoods.

Leo Laporte (02:23:48):
No, you know, I feel like would they blame you? That's literally people go for the messenger shooting the messenger. That's just crazy.

Mary Jo Foley (02:23:57):
<Laugh> I know. It's just crazy. It was crazy.

Leo Laporte (02:24:00):
Oh, don't worry. Mary Jo. These same people hate me now. So it's all good. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (02:24:03):
That's excellent. 11

Leo Laporte (02:24:05):
Years. Yeah. 12, almost 12. All about microsoft.com. That's your home on the net? Paul Thra is@thra.com. Get the premium membership. You can read his history of windows development. I, I really enjoyed the previous articles. I can't wait to see the new ones. T H U R R tt.com. The field guide to windows 10 is available@leanpub.com and soon to be the field guide to windows 11 just a programming note. We are gonna continue to talk about CES probably the next time will be this week on TWI on Sunday because father Robert will join us. It was a little change in plans. One of our guests got COVID and couldn't join us, but father Robert will be coming in and he's also in Vegas. So who knows what's gonna happen between now and Sunday, but I'm sure he took good precautions.

Leo Laporte (02:25:05):
And so we will do more CES coverage. Then as Robert comes back from Vegas Amy, we will also join us and Kevin Rose. So it's gonna be a good show on on Sunday Paul and Mary Jo will be back next two. No, sorry. Next Wednesday. We do windows weekly every Wednesday at 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM Eastern 1900 UTC. You can watch us do it live at twi.tv/live the IRC where you can chat with people who are also watching the show live is irc.twi.tv. Although it's open 24 7, there's always some somebody in there talking. So it's a good place to go to, to, to make some friends. If you're a member of club TWiT, of course you can also chat in our discord. And the club TWiT is at TWiT. TV slash club TWiT. If you'd like to know more about that $7 a month gets you ad free versions of all the shows membership in the discord, the TWiT plus fee.

Leo Laporte (02:26:01):
There's lots of benefits for our members. And we are very glad to have you in fact, this show, particularly because we had no advertisers, so you can thank Club TWiT. <Laugh> for putting this show on this is their, their broadcast. If you wanna get the show after the production, you can always download a copy from the website, twit TV slash WW. You can also get it on YouTube. There's a YouTube channel devoted to windows weekly. And of course, probably the best thing to do is get a podcast player of some sort on your phone or PC and just subscribe to windows weekly. You'll get it automatically the minute it's available. And if your podcast player allows reviews, please leave us a five star review. Let us let us know what you think of the show, but please five stars. Okay. Okay. <Laugh> I mean, be honest with you, be honest but five stars, right? Okay. Yeah. <Laugh> I mean we understand each other, right? Honesty is fine. Five stars. That's all I'm asking. Thanks everybody. Thanks Paul. Thanks Mary Joe. We'll see you next time. About my days weekly. Bye

Jason Howell (02:27:06):
Bye. Have you ever read a tech news story and thought to yourself, man, I would love to talk to the person who wrote this to find out more information. Well, that's exactly what Mikah Sargent and I, Jason Howell do each and every week on tech news weekly, we read the stories that matter to us. We reach out to the people, making a break in the tech news and we invite them on to tell their story and you can find it at twit.tv. Look for tech news weekly, every Thursday.