Windows Weekly 903 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Thorat's here, richard Campbell's here and you know what else is. Here it came, my Snapdragon dev kit for Windows. We're going to set it up, install it and fight OneDrive to the death. All of that coming up next on Windows Weekly.

00:20 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is Twit.

00:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is Windows Weekly with Paul Theriot and Richard Campbell, episode 903, recorded October 16th 2024. Absolutely seamless. It's time for Windows Weekly. Hey dozers, hey winners. The show where we talk about Microsoft with these cats right here On my Over there. Directions are hard. Paul Theriot from theriotcom he is, of course, the major domo there and his books are at leanpubcom. Today he's broadcasting from ormonorte in beautiful mexico city. Hello paul, hello hola leo, hola, what's the? Uh, what's spanish for paul?

01:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
that's well, I just so, pablo, but I used to say paul, you know too I like pablo, I'm gonna call you p from now on. I'm the second most famous, pablo. Pablo Thurot, I'm going to go down in the same way too.

01:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And then to his other side is Mr Richard Campbell from RunAsRadiocom and NET Rocks, or, as I call him, ricardo, and he is coming to us from portugal today. Portugal, yeah, tell us, uh, you're in porto.

01:49 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yes, so uh, when last we were together, I was in ibiza for the abba party, so I was in silver lamaze. How was that?

01:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
you did. You were so much yeah pictures or it didn't happen.

02:01 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Oh no, there are pictures, I'm just not gonna post them here. Uh, wow, but uh, yeah, fantastic party. We had such a ton of fun. And then we left on saturday, went to lisbon, spent a couple of days, love lisbon, love ate, ate all the octopus. And then, uh. And then yesterday we took the train down to porto and straight into a nice seafood place. Uh, was a 40th birthday party for a friend, so got a 40 year old port order, as you do. Heaven, yeah and uh. And here I am today did my first talk this afternoon, the nuclear power talk. So good, I'm ready to stream, and I got my notes together and I picked up whiskey based on what we were drinking in Ibiza.

02:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Before we go too much farther, I want to show you something. Oh, did you get your shipping notice More than a notice, my friend, how does that happen? The Snapdag and DevKit is here. Did you, richard, get?

03:02 - Richard Campbell (Host)
yours.

03:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I got my shipping notice, but of course I'm not home's got to cross a border.

03:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Can I? Can I unbox it?

03:09 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
absolutely all right, this is exciting, I'll show you I didn't expect to do this until february I know it was saying january okay january.

03:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They want uh for youtube. I have to do a little thing. Yeah, okay. I got it, our YouTube thumbnail requested by Kevin. This is the let's see. I guess I should put it under the. I have a special camera for just such occasions. First time we've used it. First of all, look at this envelope. What is this? Is this something exciting in here? An invitation.

03:43 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It says Thank you for being a developer welcome it does.

03:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It says congratulations on purchasing the snapdragon dev kit. Get ready to take your development skills to the next level. I wonder if they support lisp and then here does anyone?

03:59
yeah, actually, they do. I could put this on this. There she, there she is. I actually pre-unwrapped from plastic, so this is it's kind of like a mac mini. Let me get the box out of the way here, um, and I can. I have it set up so I can plug it in, uh, while you guys talk about other things. That's fantastic, uh, to answer the question yeah, let's look at some.

04:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Let's look at that hdmi port.

04:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, yeah, so you asked a question about the hdmi port. To answer that, there is no hdmi port on the case, but look what comes in the power supply.

04:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
There is a usbc to hdmi adapter I bet if you open the box you'd see a port though that's I will.

04:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'll take it apart. I don't want to do that on the show today, but I'll take it apart. Um, there is on this side a opening for the fan, in fact you can see inside. There's a little copper, uh, cooling heat sinks. Yeah, heat sink. On the back there's ethernet. There's the power adapter. It has a big brick. This thing looks like a utilitarian router. It does, doesn't it? It's black. Black, yeah, uh, vanta black. It's got two usb-a type threes, but no covered up hdmi port. No, they may, but I'm wondering if it's not a piece of hard plastic.

05:01 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, but it would show we'd have a seam USB-A type 3s but no covered up HDMI port.

05:03 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No, they may remade the case for that, but I'm wondering if it's not a piece of hard plastic.

05:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, but it would show We'd have a seam or something on it. Well, there is a weird thing on the front.

05:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That maybe is related. Okay, so here's the front with another Thunderbolt. I think it's Thunderbolt.

05:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It just says 2 on it. Yeahb, usb 4 slash, yes before. They just don't have the certificate on off switch.

05:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And then this, which is a weird cover it looks like a micro sd or it is micro sd, but it's weird that they're covering it. Yeah, why would you do that? That's so I wonder if that has something to do with. I don't know, I don't know what that is that's weird.

05:39 - Richard Campbell (Host)
And then the light for power uh, underneath, more, uh, more venting all we know for sure is that their shipping scheduling software does not work yeah, evaluation only, not fcc approved for resale. Uh, interesting okay well, remember this was the issue was they didn't get fcc approval, apparently for the hdmi.

05:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So, um, maybe we're evaluating it. Leo, that I am only. Well, it is exactly what I'm doing. I'm evaluating it. So I have attached the HDMI and I've got a keyboard and a mouse and I'm ready to do this. In fact, let me get my HDMI cable over here and plug it in to their adapter, because, who knows, Maybe this is a proprietary?

06:27 - Richard Campbell (Host)
No, it's notided cable though it's nice, it's a nice adapter I'll put that in the front of it it definitely went for the fancy adapter yeah, so this is exciting, I'll, I'll plug it in and fire it up and uh, but so yeah, presumably yours is awaiting you uh, when I get home, I, when I do a three-week trip, I do hold mail like yeah, that's smart, yeah, it's just too much stuff. And generally, generally speaking, I could the local post office, they'll keep stuff for a week for me. Like I just tell them I'm gonna be away for a week, don't clog up the boxes, right.

06:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But at some point they need to start sending stuff back unless I put in a hold mail this is the brick reminds me of the uh, of a lenovo uh brick, and it is unfortunately proprietary. Well, not, it's that I, you couldn't call it proprietary. It's a, it's a plug.

07:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You could probably buy a replacement. You can buy it pretty easily, but you'd have to figure out exactly what size right there this is a uh.

07:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This comes from the uh well-known hunt key company yeah, I love those guys. Yeah, uh, it actually is labeled on the back 19 volts dc. So yeah, obviously it's not, it's not proprietary, but I wish it were. Do I wish it were type c powered?

07:35 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I mean, maybe not, maybe I not you wouldn't want to take up a port, honestly that's right, yeah, on a laptop maybe, but not on a, not on a desktop. Yeah, I don't mind it's brick. I don't know. I bet the USB power supplies that are that big are kind of expensive still.

07:52 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, 200 watts is about the limit on PD, so if it's coming in at 180, that's pushing.

07:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yep, well, good, I'll fire this up and we'll do the welcome experience. It'll be just like a normal Windows machine, right? Yeah, well, I mean it should be.

08:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Who knows? Actually, you'll probably experience the extended out-of-box experience where it installs the latest feature update, whether you want it or not, before you can touch it. It's nice. That's a good thing, right, it's a good thing, right, it's a required thing, it doesn't matter. It's uh, it's like a prostate exam. Leo, you know, we know you don't like it. It's not a good thing, it's happening but you know, so you know it's all right, I didn't mean to hijack the show, but I just was so excited.

08:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We've been talking about this since we ordered them in July yeah, the last thing.

08:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I can assure you this will be the most interesting thing we talk about today.

08:46 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It doesn't mean, once I get home we could do an all Snapdragon show.

08:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I'm using Snapdragon right now.

08:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There you go. So this is the equivalent of a copilot plus PC, right Is it? Yeah?

08:58 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, yeah, okay, it is Actually. That's a good thing right there actually that's a good thing.

09:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Right there I wonder if you get that stuff, so we'll find out that's running yeah it says, powered by snapdragon elite x on the front.

09:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You can't really see that. Also, we should know that. What's the uh? Which chip is it? Is it the highest end one? Oh, does it? So those?

09:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
are pretty rare. Yeah, let me, let me see. If it says yes, strap dragon x elite. But you would only know by the number of cores, right? Is that how you would tell?

09:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, you can. Yeah, If it doesn't say on the box, you'll be able to tell when you get into Windows.

09:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I don't. It may say, but it's so tiny I feel like it might be the good one. Maybe you guys can read it.

09:46 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, wouldn't I mean that's hold up right? Yeah, what does that say? I think? I think that hold up with, I think the hold up was the fcc losing their minds and having to remove the hdmi for it.

09:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Um yeah, but it says not for resale, so they didn't get full f so I mean I can use it in this. If I plug it in and everything goes dark, then we have a problem, right, because of the rf or something coming off of yeah xe.

10:08 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Anyway, I'm gonna plug it in. Look at it. Now that leo's knocked himself out of the circuit, should we talk about, uh, what intel and amd are up to?

10:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
yeah, this kind of came out of the blue yesterday, so to speak. Big blue, I guess. No, it's ib's IBM. So Intel and AMD, both both beat the same announcement, which was that they are partnering to form something called the X86 ecosystem advisory group.

10:40 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Why do? I think, Ghostbusters when they say that.

10:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, they never mentioned ARM no Once. But this is yeah, they never mentioned ARM no Once. But this is very clearly aimed at countering ARM, right? So we've got all the major PC makers who are involved Dell, lenovo, hp, red Hat, oracle, microsoft, of course, hpe, broadcom and Meta Just like throw a bone to the kids table, I guess and then Two individuals which are both Kind of curious choices, or, as they refer to them, luminaries Tim Sweeney, the founder and CEO Of Epic Games, and Linda Storvalds, who Invented a little operating system you might have heard of. Name is escaping me, doesn't matter. Anyway, I will just sidebar and say you know, linus was heavily involved with Transmeta, which did the translation in a chip stuff to emulate x86, actually, well, I'm not sure if it was emulating, I think it was almost compiling it live and running it in real time or something. But in those, uh, crusoe, I think, was the name of the chip transmitted crusoe, if I remember correctly.

11:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So that's kind of I remember that. Yeah, that was weird this was.

11:58 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Jerry pornell was a huge fan of the one. It was an hp compact tablet pc that ran this chip, that's right. It was slower than molasses in january. It was a beautiful machine and in fact was the ipad, basically by design, you know, a decade before the ipad came out. But god, what a piece of junk that thing was as far as performance and whatever. But so I'm sure he's, I'm sure he's, you know he's good for that anyhow.

12:24
So the the point of this, like I said clearly, is to counter arm. Arm is everywhere except the pc, although they're trying there as well. I mean, x86 has basically lost every market there there is for microprocessors. They're still strong in the data center, obviously, but I think we all understand intuitively like that's going to disappear, um, or at least go, you know, become a minimal thing, um, and then the pc becomes their kind of last major platform. Right, it certainly is today.

13:00
So their goal is to kind of standardize x86 implementations. This is only really the two major players that make these things anyway, right, like intel and amd. Um, and this is interesting to me that this wasn't mentioned in the announcement and I'm not even sure I wrote about this, but there was a story recently or I guess Intel was just talking about this that they're actually looking at x86 and removing some of the bytecode or opcode or whatever it is that's in these chips or in the in the arc. You know their ia, x86, architectural, um standard or whatever, because it's dated and there are newer versions of things. It's just kind of there and the backwards compatibility bit is not important anymore and so their goal is to simplify the, the resulting die, if you will, that is created from these designs.

13:45
Right, so today, you know, there's wasted space and we're getting into a weird area with chip design where it's getting so small that you see, intel does things like leave a blank space on the die so it can fit, you know. So the rest of it just kind of fits, but they can make these things even. You know, this is part of that kind of size reduction effort but also simplification, and then we'll help make these things more reliable as well. Right, so you get rid of the older, the older stuff. So that's kind of I assume that's going to be part of this, I feel.

14:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Let me take you another spin on this, paul. Yeah, if you were going to dismantle Intel and you wanted to keep the FTC calm, you would need to spin off the responsibility for certain chip designs into an entity that could be governed.

14:33 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I love how your brain works. I mean because you're right. One of the big conversations we've had over the past several weeks now, I guess, is anytime we talk about Intel and splitting up the company, someone always raises their hand and says hold on a second, they have this license with AMD and that thing is immediately cast aside. We've got to figure that out and to me this was always a solvable problem. But this kind of partnership where these two companies are still going to compete, of course right, oh, yes, of course.

15:06 - Richard Campbell (Host)
But suggests yes, exactly what you just said. For sure, for sure, we're back to find a home for all the pieces that deals with the legal and trade-related issues, and you're doing it in public, covered in different things, so it becomes a fait accompli when you actually go to public trade.

15:20 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, intel might become an equal to AMD from an x86 licensing perspective, if you will Like. This organization might become what ARM holding is on the ARM side, and they'll bring these designs and chip makers can build off of them and go on their own directions, etc. Etc. So, yeah, you could say that this is another example of, even if ARM doesn't win in this space, arm has had its impact, right um so, yeah, that's kind of well.

15:48 - Richard Campbell (Host)
In any end, I still think this is intel's issue. That intel has allowed themselves to get to this position, yep, and quite possibly the simplest solution to it is to dismantle it. But uh, it was akira and the in the chat was saying that bloomberg was talking about leave this till after the election. That's legit. I could see that you don't want a you know, long-term dow member to uh get delisted right before an election well, what?

16:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
but is it as if whoever gets elected would make an impact on this?

16:22 - Richard Campbell (Host)
no, well, you know, but it's just another thing, yeah, just another uncertainty, you say yeah, we have enough controversy in this election as it is Well, and in the reality, of course, it won't be done by then. I'm being facetious about the list that quickly It'll. This'll be years of work, oh yeah, yeah. It's also what happens to companies when they get old enough that their parts are sold off.

16:47 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Also, if you're watching the show, I just want to warn you now that the last 25 minutes is going to be us playing music and I'm going to be doing an old guy dance, so you know just look forward to that. Yeah, we're going to start. There's going to be some weird choices. Yeah, we'll have fun, though it's good, okay. Yeah, we'll have fun, though it's good, okay. So this Intel x86 AMD thing is fascinating to me. I wish we knew more frankly, so we'll see.

17:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
No, but I'm enjoying all this. This is a very interesting way to approach this right To kind of do it in public without saying what you're doing I know Right. Yeah, because if you try and do it behind closed doors, what you're doing I know right. Yeah, because because if you're trying to behind closed doors, you get these regulator problems.

17:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
so it's like it's dead, it's collusion. Yeah, yeah, isn't it collusion anyway?

17:33 - Richard Campbell (Host)
well, it's not collusion if the government's involved well, yeah, intel has its own concerns.

17:39 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Right, things are happening there. Whatever's going to happen, intel happens. There is this thing, like I said, you know, there's this discussion about licensing and whatnot and, honestly, what this is doing in many ways is sort of the opposite of collusion, although it is a hundred percent collusion in the sense that it's well, it's ensuring that competition survives. In other words, yeah, that's a good point x86 for itself. We're setting up a structure where both of us can continue to compete, and and that's right it's also 100 reversible.

18:11 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, so should the should the climate change on this where it's like this is not, as it were?

18:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
or should intel have some uh amazing technical breakthrough in the next 30 seconds somehow?

18:23 - Richard Campbell (Host)
yeah, you know in in the form of I don't know a hundred billion dollars, you know they. Then things would just continue and it's like ah well, you know, after some, after some reflection, we've realized this committee is unnecessary in its fold.

18:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I have to say though I might just throw in a thought if you want to take on a competitor, is the best way to do it to start a committee.

18:47 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, if you want to beat somebody in the marketplace is a committee the best thing there are ways to do things right, and this is one of the ones that feels weird because we don't know what the outcome is. But when google announced android, if you actually go back to the original announcement, no idea what they were talking about. That what they actually announced was aosp and it wasn't. They didn't use the word committee, but it was a. I don't know how they described it was a weird, it was a similar thing. So it's like so is there a product or what are we doing here? And it wasn't until later when we started to see, you know how android evolved. And then there were phones and so forth. So their first announcement was like wait, what are you doing? You know? Right and I think I think it's purposeful.

19:24
So I think this is. I think this is simple.

19:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Is it a? Is it a standards body?

19:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah Well, so they didn't say that, but they I bet the word standard appears in this. You know to kind of let's see.

19:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So is there a, a, a post X 86 standard, a post-X86 standard that competes with AMD?

19:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so, they're going to standardize interfaces across X86 product offerings from Intel and AMD right Along with simplifying the architectural guidelines, right that will enhance consistency, reliability et cetera.

19:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So they're talking more APIs. Coding interfaces yes.

20:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I would assume. I presume right. Yeah, I assume so okay and I mean there's also. So remember there's also this bit where intel and intel does these other things right. So they did. Um, it's interesting. They talked about how they collaborated with amd on usb, which I don't recall being the case, but um, they do things like thunderbolt, uh, kind of on their own oh yeah, that's right.

20:21
They even work with apple is the type of thing where amd only can belatedly, uh, offer it in the beginning they can't call it that. You know, we just have. We have this usb thing. It's as fast as thunderbolt something, something, because it literally is that. But they don't have that certification yet. Now they do, right. So now you can buy amd pcs with thunderbolt 4. We just talked about this with Snapdragon. Qualcomm will get that. It is going to happen, but for today, if you ask them, well, is it Thunderbolt 4? They say, well, you know, it's USB 4. It technically provides all of the capabilities of Thunderbolt 4. And you can plug it into a Thunderbolt 4 dock and it works, but they can't call it Thunderbolt 4.

21:00
Can't call it that, right? You have to pay for that. So maybe this has to do with that kind of interface as well. Right, the outward-facing interfaces, for I don't know what you would call this, other hardware architectures or whatever designs. It's hard to say because it's very vague, but they talk. Like I said. The word standard or standardized does come up several times in this document. You know the introduction of standards, security, vulnerability mitigation, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and they, like I said, worked with AMD on developing USB, a vital connectivity standard.

21:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well and correct me if I'm wrong, but my sense of x86 is it survived because AMD adopted it. Intel was ready to move away with Itanium.

21:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think there's a version where they could have walked away because itanium tanked so badly well, but they didn't know that they were ready to walk away yeah, I mean, well, they I don't know that they could have gone forward with itanium on pc. I don't know god, that's the ultimate intel going in the wrong direction.

22:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, really and thank god they had this skunk works in israel that was working on, yeah, the core right because otherwise they would have been out of luck. And I think amd by continuing the x80s, I mean they made it. Amd wanted to make a compatible processor right. That was the point yeah, well they.

22:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
They had been doing that since the very early 90s, if not right right the I. I bought an amd 386 sx and probably 93, 94 maybe really that long ago, oh yeah yeah, yeah, back when 46 was the current concern and you had, you know, the dx and sx variants and and I had no money, so I went with an am SX, you know, because that's what you did.

22:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's right. I bought an Eagle PC compatible instead of a Compaq.

22:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It probably had Apple II apps too. It's, you know, one of those weird things.

22:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That thing was so overclocked it crashed all the time oh, that's funny All the time, Because they were really trying to beat the whatever. I had to use a special boot disk to play doom on this thing. It was so underpowered, you know. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, so nothing was running, except it was the only thing you did.

23:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You really need that math co-processor man. Without your math co-process, well, what I?

23:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
needed was more than probably one megabyte of ram or whatever it had I mean it was some garbage amount of ram, but it's hard. It's hard to even think it's. It's so stupid so long ago.

23:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, how small can't. So do you think this will save x86? No I don't, because really the future is, let's face it, the future is the present.

23:38 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's arm. It's. I think arm is inevitable and I think yeah when, when?

23:43 - Richard Campbell (Host)
well, now you're talking about the other aspect that this committee could really do, which is to license the, the um, the caruso design?

23:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
yeah, of course, yep, so as long as we're talking about it, should we?

23:56 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
uh, you got all the plugs in but I think that I think they're going to try that, I think that's a big part of it and I think they're trying to spread x86 to counter arm. But I just, I feel, like I said, I think it's inevitable, I, the last holdout really is the pc and that's just a, that's a legacy workload really, and you know, and I, I, I don't know, you know, there's still cobalt in the world, so it's sort of like that yeah somebody's telling these machines, it's not the future.

24:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So if the screen is dark, as you saw, a Snapdragon and Windows are booting. But it's now synced.

24:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, plain Windows logo. You got kind of a Surface-like experience there.

24:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it's very just simple. Okay, now it's just a moment, yeah, so you're going screen with the the.

24:41 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You know the out of box.

24:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it wants to know who, who I am and what I'm doing here tries to be all friendly.

24:47 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Hi, I'm your creepy piece of software it's not cortana during your skit and scat routine.

24:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
A little wi-fi here, a little wi-fi there if you were, uh, if you were just seeing this, you wouldn't know if it's x86 or arm. No, there's nothing. No, there won't be anything in this whole process that would tell you that it's just not, that's no, there's nothing.

25:03 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No, there won't be anything in this whole process that would tell you that it's just not. That's kind of the point of windows, right?

25:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean, you don't think about the hardware yes, hardware doesn't matter yeah, uh, yeah, that's the right country, let me see, I don't know, I could do a live.

25:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Uh, bypassing of the microsoft account requirement, if you, oh, should I do that.

25:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, I'm an american, I'm happy. No, I'm do I want skip that. Why do they always ask that? Why would you have two? Oh, because you want to speak different accessibility that's why this is wi-fi right.

25:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, all right now, this is one of the areas where you run a command line bypass if you wanted to not have this, but there's no reason to Are you.

25:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Actually I should connect the. You know, I'm going to go back to you guys because I think I might. Well, I just think I might connect Ethernet, and then we can forget that. Cables. Who knew I got cables and it's got an Ethernet port. Wouldn't that be better?

25:59 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You know, Wi-Fi is also the future. Leo, I wish you would embrace the future.

26:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, I'm gonna keep going and I'll connect some more cables.

26:08 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So coincidental to this partnership announcement. Amd and Intel both announced new chips in the past week. The AMD they're both kind of curious in a way the AMD version. So AMD already released desktop and mobile versions of their latest architecture. Right, right, this is a desktop series, is that true? Yeah, no, sorry, a mobile processor, but for commercial pcs. So this is their version of v pro, basically, right, okay, it's just, it's basically what they had before, but with hardware management capabilities built in that IT pros can ignore because it's AMD who cares. So, but they know, but whatever. So they do that. So that's not particularly interesting.

26:53
Of more interest is the new Core Ultra 200 S series. These are desktop CPUs for AI PCs, made by Intel, of course, the so-called Arrow Lake variant. But it's the first of those, first of the Arrow Lakes. Yeah, the one thing that everyone points out is that this thing has the same NPU. Essentially that was in the Meteor Lake chips from last December. It doesn't have the new 50-plus NPU that they just announced for the Lunar Lake processor. What gives? And actually I know the? I actually don't have the answer to this question. In fact, intel alluded to it in their most recent earnings announcement, or one of the reasons for their horrible quarter was that they overspent to deliver Lunar Lake faster than they were going to originally.

27:42
And the inside story is that Microsoft had come to Intel, of course, sometime in the past year and a half or whatever, and said, look, we're doing this co-pilot plus PC thing they might not have known the name at the time. It's going to require an MPU that's 40 plus tops. And Intel said we're not going to have one of those for three years or maybe four years, whatever the timeframe was, because they were going to iterate on whatever, well, meteor Lake and then whatever, the I guess it was Arrow Lake. Essentially, we're going to iterate on those things on desktop and mobile. And they were like well, I mean, you can do that if you want, but then you're going to be left out of the party because AMD is doing it and Qualcomm is doing it. So of course, intel pushed to make that happen, happen, and they went with what they correctly perceive as the volume part of the market. So they did lunar lake as a new design with this faster gpu. Uh, mpu, sorry, right. So what we're seeing in arrow lake s, which is this thing, is the vestiges of the old tiktok strategy, where this was. This is what the mobile version of the meteor lake follow-up would have looked like if microsoft hadn't done co-pilot plus pc. So we would have seen this same npu mobile and desktop. Um, so you know, it's it.

28:56
It was very expensive for intel to do what it did with lunar lake. It couldn't afford to do it. With this, they lose money on every ship that they sell, right? Um, it's a. You know they can only lose so much money, right? This has been in the news. They're losing a lot of money, yeah, so it's kind of a problem. And here we are.

29:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I like the Snapdragon that red, Snapdragon that pops up, that's the best part so far. So far it's the highlight. Now we're trying to figure out if it's going to install those features that, uh well, that you have to get by you'll you'll sign in first.

29:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
There's more? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, so I'll. I'll let you guys. You know, I just wrote a guide for this if you want to follow. Oh, that would be nice if I could. It's actually uh, it doesn't require a guide, but I had. I have a book so I have to write it, but it's not.

29:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's not complicated okay, I'm gonna just see if I can figure it out all by my I feel like I my years of knowledge of you and your capabilities I feel strongly you know I'll screw it up that you're gonna screw this up, no, no I think I think you got this. Oh wait, now it's doing something here. Wait a minute, let's see. All right, so wait I already did that part says no internet. I just did that. It just did that I'm. It came back to this.

30:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's okay well, can I just connect to the wi-fi so we can move this along no, no, I'll let you guys continue because, I plugged in an ethernet cable and it saw it, so I'm very frustrated now that it came back.

30:18
I mean you shouldn't have to. You don't have to leave that screen. If you plug in ethernet and it's going to work, it will work right there no, it's there is a little install driver, but there it is now it senses it see it has to sense it and now it says it and I don't know who google, wi-fi or jupiter, but actually I just said there was a little install driver thing there.

30:37
There isn't so, and actually I think the reason is because you have it did detect wi-fi, so it wouldn't put it there unless you needed the wi-fi oh, so I but see it says it's connected.

30:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You're good, you can just go. Yeah, you're good, I can do next. Okay, I'm not going to connect automatically to any of those access points, but why is I don't like the wi-fi?

30:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
okay see, I think I did this, I think it's like it went back again.

31:02 - Richard Campbell (Host)
No, no because you got an update too, you're gonna be able to go get more updates. Oh, is it updating and updating?

31:06 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You're going to see checking for Windows updates at least twice in this process. Oh well it already did it once.

31:11 - Richard Campbell (Host)
This is the second trip. Oh, this is the thing I was talking about.

31:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Actually, it happens now, so this is going to take about 20 minutes. Okay, this is of screens where it talks about how wonderful I don't have a co-pilot key.

31:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, so this is new. This isn't that interesting because I don't have one, because I didn't get a keyboard with this well, you can sure order one from this company. You'll get it next july nice I don't want a co-pilot key by the time you get it.

31:37 - Richard Campbell (Host)
We won't even be using co-pilot keys anymore but first they'll tell you, you got it this august that's right, my the last thing I saw.

31:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I was going to get it in January, so I was really shocked when I came up with the box. That's amazing. That's amazing. Recall Yay.

31:56 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That's exciting. We're not stealing. You did it, okay, so I'm going to do this.

32:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I will come back when it's done it's downloading.

32:09 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That's why I think the ethernet, though, is a lot faster.

32:10 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I think, okay, okay I think, that's actually it for the, for the x86 stuff anyway you have to tell me why the desktop chips won't make the copilot plus pc spec, because I want to build one why won't?

32:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
they yes, no, no. It's not necessarily true that future ones won't. There's like Panthelic and whatever's coming this year. It's possible that there will be an Arrow Lake, something that does have a faster GPU, but this kind of mainstream chip which is you know. Remember last year they did the core I think it was the 14th gen without any NPU. Yeah, I think this is sort of you know in that space. It's in that line.

32:42 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, of that. You know, in that space, it's just in that line. Yeah, we're not. But the fact that I could introduce my npu as a rtx 4090 is not. We'll get there, I got me. I got me an npu. It cost me 1500 bucks and I can kill small animals with it, right like come on microsoft is doing everything they can for the environment, as you know know, including renting Three Mile Island.

33:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Hey, I got a question, so they're acting as if I have a Copilot Plus PC because of the key and these studio effects are with a hello camera, right, yeah, the key.

33:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Fair enough, I would say yeah, I mean, you do right. So Windows Studio Effects will work on any PC that has an NPU of any kind, right? So actually step through there and see if you see any other co-pilot plus PC features.

33:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, yeah, there's quite a few.

33:32 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah.

33:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, all right, these are all co-pilot plus PC features, translate and caption audio and video in real time. Recall oh recall.

33:38 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Of course I'm sorry. So, yes, co, so co-creator it is seeing your. Pc as a co-pilot, plus PC right.

33:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Which makes sense, because I don't need a hello camera or a special camera to do the studio effects Any so what's going to happen at the.

33:50 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So that's going to be very interesting, because you, you just won't have windows. Hello, um, ess, right. So that's, you'll just have normal windows, slow. So this is a configuration no one has ever seen right, this is not a retail configuration. So it's going to be interesting to see you know if you actually get recall later, for example, like you're supposed to have to have ESS to get that. So I don't know.

34:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a matrix, so I'm glad to be the guinea pig. This is why I ordered it. If you move away from the matrix it looks like a little pile of dog crap. When's bullet time start. That's all Yep, all right. So this is going to take a little while.

34:33 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Ad break.

34:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Ad break while we're doing this and then we'll come back. We'll talk more about Windows. You're watching Windows Weekly with Paul Thorat, Richard Campbell. We do this every Wednesday and we are now streaming on eight platforms because we just added TikTok. I pledged I would never be on TikTok Too late. You are incorrect. I'm really curious, because I don't know what the vertical video is doing. It may be that Paul and I are not on TikTok, exactly.

35:04 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
We have like a sliver on either side of Richard you know what. That's what everyone wants to see who cares? It's good.

35:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't, I don't, yeah. Anyway, this is thanks to a restream, which we use for the show, we are able to be on a discord for our club members. If you're not a member, join the club because you can watch a Discord, but you can also chat in Discord, youtube, twitch, xcom, linkedin, facebook, kik, tiktok. And am I missing anything? I think there might be more.

35:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They told me eight Arctic Fox. Arctic Fox Sleep, near Sleep.

35:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Near Anyway. This is exciting. So if you're watching live, welcome. It's good to have you there. 737 people in here right now watching us do the show live, and they are very glad they're here because I'm going to tell them about something that they need to know about this episode of Windows Weekly brought to you by Lookout, our sponsor for this segment.

36:05
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37:20
I want you to check it out. Go to lookoutcom right now. Learn how to safeguard data, how to secure hybrid work, how to reduce IT complexity, security without sacrificing productivity. That's lookoutcom. We thank them so much for supporting Windows Weekly. We thank you for supporting Windows Weekly by going to that website, lookoutcom. Something's happening. Something's happening. You're 25% there. You're 26%.

37:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Never mind, that's like saying nothing's happening, nothing's happening.

37:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's like preparing to install.

37:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You're saying you're not installing, just say it.

37:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It did download, though I mean it downloaded whatever that update was. Now you think there'll be more than that. What we're curious about is what features get installed.

38:06 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, I think you're going to see them. I think you're going to get all the Copilot Plus PC features that exist. Sounds like it they showed me that slideshow.

38:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It makes sense. I like that. Yeah, all right, let's talk about Windows. Oh, I should say just Huh, sorry, you're right.

38:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yes, we will. I'm sorry to interrupt. I meant to say I have not tested this myself, but I did download and install it to do this later because you know, I'm updating my book 24 H2, this process that you just went through I have gone through possibly 20 times in the past week.

38:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm so sorry. Would you like to go through it again?

38:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Paul, no, it's fine. The reason it's a problem is because of the thing you just did. So 20 minutes every single time I'm doing all kinds of different configurations, a lot of them in vm summer and physical hardware, and that takes a long time. Yeah, and since then they've released a new version of the iso to that download windows 11 page that allegedly already incorporates this update, which is that final October 24 H2 update. So supposedly, if you were to install off of that ISO using the media creation tool or otherwise, you won't have to do that anymore because it's integrated. So I've not tested it, but that's the story.

39:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think, honestly, when people get a new device, they expect a certain amount of this updating. I mean, even my meta glasses had to do this right.

39:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, the thing is, though, in uh, you know, let's say it's november, well, probably after christmas at this point, but november, december, january certainly. Um, new pcs will start appearing in the channel that have this integrated, and so, right, you won't see that during setup. You'll see a cumulative update in windows update, for whatever the latest month is. You might see a dot netNET update, some driver updates, that kind of thing, but you won't see this ginormous five-ish gigabyte feature update, right? So you're doing a thing that is temporary. In the future you won't have to deal with it on this computer. Within a few months it will integrate the installer. If you reset it, you won't have to go through this anymore.

40:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Apple uh, reportedly for their iphones has a thing that they can just put like induction. Wise, put the iphone on it and we'll update it yeah, I mean it's the same problem you make something? Yep, and then you have a system update it's a bad first experience.

40:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You know you're so excited your expensive toy you just got. You finally arrived to turn it on. Like now you have to wait 20 minutes for updates, like seriously. I love it, by the way I love this ruby red snapdragon you know it'd look even better on. It's one of those red laptops they have right why don't they sell? Those come on guys yeah it's really pretty.

40:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Really need a need a vinyl wrap for your snapdragon laptop it has that logo on the top of the box, but it's's black and white.

40:44 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's best in red.

40:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I would say yeah, it really looks pretty in red. Yeah, okay, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt 24H2.

40:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so inexplicably, we haven't written about any of this and here on the show we've not talked about this. But 24H2 came out a little over two weeks ago, came out, you, two weeks ago, came out. You know, came out. We should have brought that up, being that actually got this organically. I'd love to talk to him, but, but it's come out, right, um and it. It has resulted in what may be an unprecedented list of problems, even in the short history of windows 11. Right, it's, it's bad. So, for example, um, there's 8.63 gigabytes of space missing on the disk. Afterwards, it's actually just a reporting error, it's actually there. But curious bug, everyone sees if you look for it, wow, certain Western digital SSDs. If you have that kind of hardware in your computer, just blue screens all over the place. There's a vanishing mouse cursor issue that I actually raised over the summer, where the iBeam cursor, as it's's called I think of it as the text insertion cursor and any app that you know you can enter text. If you mouse over it, it disappears into the background.

41:52 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Um, it turns out microsoft actually selected the wrong cursor for that one thing as the default wow so that's what and so they never picked it up in a year of mess, I know I know it's insane.

42:03 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Um, some people don't have internet access After the update. I've not experienced that one. And then System File Checker, which, granted, is a tool not many people would use Command line tool. So when this thing runs, if it detects corrupt files, it will then fix them using those side-by-side files that are on disk. It always corrects or detects corrupt files and then it fixes them, which is unnecessary, but it takes a long time because it's you know, you're replacing system files and, uh, that's, yeah, that's the tip of this iceberg of 20. That's what 24h2 is, h2 has done and, as a result, uh, there are certain features we'll talk about soon that are coming, that they just put into the release preview, that obviously are aimed at Next week's week D preview update, and then the stable version of the patch Tuesday update that comes in November. Microsoft has already delayed two of those because there were problems with them as well. So we've hit you can, you can. Let's say I get it from your end. I guess this is right.

43:03
Yeah, you can chart the quality of Windows. It's a linear graph. It's a 45-degree angle, pretty consistent slope. It's a slope. It's a slippery slope. Look, there were problems with Windows 8 from a usability perspective, but from a reliability and quality perspective not so much.

43:26
But when you go to 10 and the versions of 10, windows as a service and Kindles or crashing Windows, and move into Windows 11, which is surface level, blah, blah, blah, like though I think of it as the Windows mobile 6.5 of the Windows world, where they just change a couple of surface level interfaces, make power users upset, that features are gone. And then normal people like I've asked my wife this, I ask friends. It's like so what do you think of Windows 11? They're like I don't really notice anything. Okay, so that was worth all the effort, great. And now you know, panos Panay comes and goes and you think, okay, we got got this DeVolori guy engineer, 20 plus years of experience, maybe things are going to turn around. Nope, right off the bottom it's like you think you've cratered, but it turns out you can go into the earth and keep going, dig it down.

44:19
Well, think about the past year. He came on board last August, a year ago, august, the past year. He he came on board last august, a year ago, august. Think of all every the sheer amount of complaining I've done every single month, the chaos, the uncertainty, the lack of clarity, 24 h2, split into two separate releases, which they didn't even acknowledge until they released it to x64, like I. It's bizarre. And now they finally released this thing which, like you said, had a year to do it. And are you serious? Are you serious? But here we are and I just turned on everyone's siri.

44:54
I'm so sorry, I'm just serious, mine, just like mine just lit up, like every time seriously. Every time I can't I.

45:00 - Richard Campbell (Host)
My problem is, I say that phrase a lot, so much I gotta tell you on the system inside of things they're like. Well, I think I'm ready to move to 23h to know, yes, they're getting off at 22h to right.

45:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
so the the big story of Windows 10 to me, you know, kind of looking back at it, is something we found out later, which was that Terry Myerson was tasked With making Windows make sense in this world. I think it was last week. This world sorry, this world being Microsoft Cloud Computing Superpower, right, and that's why we got Windows as a service. I just confirmed this. Like a week or two ago, satya Nadella literally brought in every product group and said explain yourself, and if you can't, you're gone. We're getting rid of this thing, oh fun.

45:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Give that a second. Give it a second. I like the ice cream falling. It says oops you've lost the internet connection.

45:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So anyway. So Windows as a service was the result. It was a time at which Apple had stopped charging for OS upgrades. Microsoft had to. They made Windows 8 really cheap. They made Windows 10 free.

46:09
How can this thing fit within the scheme of cloud computing? We'll update it as if it were a cloud service. But then Windows 11 comes along and now they call it continuous innovation. But now we're doing AI, so they're just throwing AI at the wall and we get all this, and that's why they jammed Copilot down everyone's throat. That was going to be what 23h2 was, but they put it out as the second to last, I guess, cumulative update for 22h2 to make sure everyone got it, because that update was mandatory and you could not skip it. You could delay it a little bit, but you had to take it, and that's why 23h2 is an enablement package. It's just the same, it's the same code, it's exactly exactly the same. So we don't have that kind of a problem now. They moved Copilot what 17 times in the past year, etc. Etc. But now Windows has to make sense in this AI world. It's a slightly better fit than cloud computing, but it's still not great. So this is my life. How are you guys doing?

47:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You mentioned Panos Panay. He had a big day yesterday announcing the new Kindle stuff.

47:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I refuse to acknowledge what you just said, and I'm not even sure it happened.

47:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I just he had some superlatives. I don't think he said pumped, but he had some superlatives.

47:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's hard for me to express what's the malicious form of ambivalence um malevolence, malevolence, malevolence. I have um, just a big nothing burger over there. So yeah, anyway, I I'm excited about the kindle, for whatever that's worth. I did order a color kindle, but did you? Oh good, oh yeah, I've been waiting for this for 10 years, leo, I mean I wish it was bigger, I I'd get a kindle scribe color if I could right now, you know he uh, let's see, oh, here's, oh, oh, you're gonna enjoy this you're gonna like this he uh, here, he is panos holding up a kindle, is his hair green, it's not green?

48:01
I don't. I look at that and I see a thing on a wall and then a tablet floating in space. I don't even there's a blank If copilot nothing else I am so apparently he a magic eraser.

48:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He says the future is awesome. Yeah, it is. It is Future's so bright I got to wear shades. I got to wear a lot of gold chains.

48:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh wait, that's not the song it's, that's a different song, that's, that's the panos bene song, uh, I'm waiting to uh, for some reason, my keyboard.

48:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So go back to the screen. Let's, what is what do we got? It's, it's the sign-in thing, but my keyboard, which I was seeing earlier.

48:37 - Richard Campbell (Host)
This is a seamless experience that I think speaks well it just noticed you didn't have a co-pilot key and it won't let you type yeah, yeah, that's weird, your co-pilot key to continue god damn it.

48:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I had to unplug it twice. It's the same thing. It's really wants wi-fi, it really. It says it really does yeah, why don't you have wi-fi, come on? Yep, that's true, yeah all right, I just didn't. I don't want people to think it's taking longer than it is password. Oh, wait a minute. I can use my microsoft app. I'm gonna use that, so I'll. I'll get back to you guys while I do that. No, it's okay. Are you enjoying it? Are you enjoying this thing that you have to do every 20 minutes this?

49:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
is. This is my life. It literally is my microsoft app.

49:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is how I spend my time, so now I have to do the authenticator 94. I really like, frankly, this particular workflow is this thing. This is what you call single sign on right this is multi-touch communication. Yeah, oh, oh shoot, I forgot I have a new iphone.

49:35 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I have to add the account to my iphone that's awesome oh, so do uh, just say you can't do it, and they'll, they'll do other ways. You'll be able to do a, send yourself a text, probably, or whatever oh, oh yeah, I don't have, you can get by it you can get, by it I can get by it. It says something like see the other.

49:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
See all the devices. This was sent to no.

49:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No, no, look below, scroll down. Oh, look below, Okay.

49:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, there's going to be another, there's going to be an alternative indicator app. Oh yeah, I can. It'll just email me, okay code?

50:04 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
yeah, okay, oh god, you know, I uh I would like at this point to try to sell you on the something called the windows 11 field guide.

50:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
L e o, I believe is my is my name.

50:18 - Richard Campbell (Host)
That's amazing you have to do the whole email address it's not your, it's like yeah, I don't think so.

50:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, no, I know why. Because I use, when I do that, I use special special names that no one. Let me just add the account to my Microsoft Authenticator and then and then try and go back. Because I don't have to. The password is long. Obviously I don't want to enter that by hand, right?

50:46 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
by hand. Right? Yeah, for sure. I love that. We're what 16, 17 when I'm in the years in the show like you're literally rebooting a computer in front of me.

50:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I do that. I like that, paul. This is this is us this is us man, it is you, and me baby.

50:56 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
These are all in the old folks home. These are all going to mix into my brain as one memory now.

51:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, this is great. So now the phone here we go wants me to approve a request using my microsoft app which is on the the what the other phone.

51:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You still have your old phone because that would still work oh, I do have my old phone.

51:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, that works, it's on there. Yeah, yeah, I'll get out of here. Sorry, I didn't mean to no I.

51:22 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This is a problem I run into all the time because I also switch phones a lot.

51:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, when you switch phones, you have to authenticate everything else.

51:27 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, which is the only reason I know there are alternatives, because I often don't have the same account on the right device.

51:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It says notification All right, I'm not sure if the notification is from the computer or from my phone.

51:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
The problem is you probably canceled the previous notification or you might have so complicated.

51:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So complicated. New sign-in request. There it is. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. I saw the 94 briefly, but then it says verify Okay, oh, good, okay, now, now I'm in. Okay, okay, whew. This is so exciting for everybody watching at home. Oh, wait a minute though. Oh, you gotta, you know you have to do it cancel.

52:09 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I screwed things up and then do it again. Oh yeah, I just typed all yeah, I got to start over. It's okay, you'll get it the first time this time, if you will, if you get it the first time this time. It's really not the first time, is it?

52:21 - Richard Campbell (Host)
it's the second time.

52:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I have trouble. No, I don't want to. I want to use my microsoft app.

52:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah you remember that you get? Yep, you can.

52:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yes, you can choose it. All right, this is so exciting is it?

52:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
oh, man, I would like to apologize for everyone listening to the audio version of this.

52:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, after the fact authentication request denied no, no, no, no. Let me let me be clear about this. This is amazing no, you got it, you're it's so weird because the authenticator denied it, but apparently okay, now do you recommend creating a pin?

52:55 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
it wants you have to create a pin if you sign into windows with a password, which you just did with an account that has a password, you have to create a pin.

53:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, all right, create pin. Am I going to do that in public?

53:09 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
you. We won't see that. I probably you won't, and what's the difference? I don't. I don't think anyone's going to break into your home and physically get to the machine and remember that I have an evil maid, don't you have an evil maid? We all have evil maids I can't tell if she's evil because I don't speak her language. Yet she's amusing, it's pretty evil.

53:28 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Right there Do you have a funny maid. It's amused by you, I think.

53:32 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, I think it goes.

53:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So this is tradition. This is exactly what you'd see on an Intel PC too. Yes, it's exactly the same. Yeah, now I always just let Microsoft be, microsoft Don't.

53:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And I strongly encourage. So uncheck every single one of those, except for the top. Everybody to do this, all right, or do that?

53:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh recall.

53:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Coming soon.

53:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But why even say this if it's?

53:55 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
not here? Why is this here? Yeah, yeah, that's a good question.

53:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Someday you'll have some feature that we're going to tell you about now. They really want you to use it, leo, so here I recommend clicking learn more and then not, not, not not downloading the previous pc from some terrible windows on arm computer you used to have click learn more. Actually it's from my mac. Um, it's the, it's the windows on arm, but you know I'll start from scratch.

54:20 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You want to. Yeah, yeah they. They badger you, but they'll let you do it okay no, no no, just click, learn more please I did.

54:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, what's obvious now scroll down. Yeah it what's I've never seen this before. It doesn't. It says you must.

54:37 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
There is no option no, but you only have one backup. Hold on, so click.

54:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I've never seen this okay, so no scroll. I'm sorry, scroll down here. There it is more options, not learn more I don't need to learn, is incredibly lower.

54:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I have paul thorat, oh, and here's all my other setup a new pc.

54:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There you go. That makes more sense. Yeah, start from scratch.

54:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah that makes sense they badger you again. Ignore the badgering. But if you don't do this, we won't have your data yeah, but I yeah, okay, look, it's pretty yeah, it's going to be less pretty in a second and then they're going to start selling you on things.

55:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's going to be less pretty in a second. You're such a grim, sad okay, now this you don't, but don't. I want development stuff, you don't. You don't want entertainment, gaming school, nothing, no, skip crap. Is it because it's just crap where?

55:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
you, you're opting into them knowing more about you and they're just going to send you ads.

55:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's not, it doesn't do anything, okay how should I use my phone for my pc?

55:37 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
skip that too. You can do that later I could do that later. Yeah, I have a google, you can also do that other thing later, if you wanted to. This is new by the way, but skip it.

55:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's scan the QR code with your phone's camera To get the free OneDrive app.

55:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So in other words, it will download OneDrive and then send a message Back that you did it and you set it up for backup, and then it will let you continue.

55:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But just skip it, yeah we're trying to expedite this because it's only a two hour show. Oh, I see Windows. Okay, I see Windows. Okay, I see OJ, and it's got the little co-pilot.

56:06 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So do this. Yeah, launch paint. It's right there on the left.

56:13 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Which is this this one.

56:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, this is so much fun. Hello, no, hello.

56:20 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I'm co-pilot, hello. This is going to be your favorite keyboard, shortcut control. W we'll get rid of this stupid thing, but first just run paint, please um it should be right there, so a I n t.

56:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay. Now I'm running paint, aren't I? I hit return. It didn't help. Okay, there you go there is open it up, so you're trying to see what new features we have. I want to see if you have co-creator.

56:47 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yes, yes. So maximize it, okay, cause it's going to be so exciting, I don't have.

56:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They said I was going to have co-creator. Yeah, I don't see it, though that's interesting Ah so, even though this is a co, should I look at update and see what? What?

57:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
uh, we're going to do that in a second. But hold on a second, I will do that we will do that Okay.

57:10
Um, uh, open up photos, okay. And of course, actually, you know, one of the problems here is these apps might need to be updated too. Yeah, I think. Maybe because you're going to want to update the system, I want to go the store right. So, in photos is there? Let me look at your screen. Sorry, I'm looking at my screen. If you, you don't even have a photo, so I need a photo let me do the update.

57:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Should I run the store, maybe, and say what's what update all these?

57:36 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
yeah that thing, and then I guess you might as well do windows update as well. Okay, because if you open, like open the widgets thing down in the lower corner left, you probably don't have anything but widgets. Like you don't have a feed yet, I would imagine. Oh, let's see, hold on, that looks like a feed I got nothing. So this thing's going to update too. So go into the store and update, yeah, and then open. You were going to do this anyway, but open settings and update there too. Update there too.

58:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, update there too. Update there too, yeah, so lower corner.

58:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
sorry, go to library in the lower left corner. Oh yeah, library, and that's going to change later, but don't worry about that.

58:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Get updates. Oh, there's a lot and there's a co-pilot update. Well, that stuff was already updated.

58:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You're going to want to check for updates twice. I know that sounds stupid.

58:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I see, but you just got this because it says modified minutes ago.

58:23 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, you might get something. You'll get some small number of apps maybe. But if you only get a few apps or several apps you're going to want to actually click check updates again, Then you'll get basically every app probably.

58:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it's thinking, all right, we can go back to the show. Yeah.

58:37 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And also get Windows Update going. And you should have the. I bet it's well, you probably just install the october update so you might have some driver updates you might have a dot net update, etc. So we'll see. Is it the? Settings. That I do. Oh okay, they can do it this way too, but I would just run the settings app and then windows update from there I can't. Well, this has been absolutely seamless yeah, I mean, I'm looking at it in a window that's about three inches yeah, me too.

59:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's the problem.

59:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I tried to put a second screen on it, but I didn't like it actually go back real quick because it looks like you have a bunch of app updates in there yeah, let me go to the upper left there. Yeah, so scroll down to see what what it looks like. There's a lot of stuff here.

59:21 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, okay, that's good are you still checking when it's done? But yeah, okay, that's good Family safety. You still have to check again when it's done. But there you are, that's good, it's all good. Web search. Xbox identity provider app install. Look at MSN weather. So here's the thing Is Candy Crush on here?

59:36 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No, that was Windows 10. That's long gone.

59:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh really, they don't do that anymore.

59:50 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, anymore. Oh, they should. They own that company now, hilariously. Um, yeah, they do, but they don't put it on. Yeah, so just run the settings app and then go to. Did you leave the store? You closed the store out? No, it closed itself. Oh, and maybe it's updating the store because the store is going to have. Oh, that's probably why, when you come back, yeah, yeah, so bottom left you're going to scroll down is windows update, windows updates, I guess, or windows update, and then, uh, you probably let's see if you have to click the button.

01:00:09 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, download oh yeah, security intelligence update cumulative update for dot net.

01:00:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So you actually do have. Oh, for dot net. Yes, okay, good, okay. And then? Yeah, I was gonna say the thing you, the thing you installed before was the 2024 10 cumulative update for windows 11. Yeah, so it's already installed, like that's the thing. Yeah, yeah, I see that I don't need that. Well, the the middle ones, I think it's.

01:00:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I can point out, by the way during this uh entire process, uh, while the fan is on and I I hear it kind of going into gear a little bit, it didn't. It's not hot's not warm, it's not blowing real hard and it's not noisy. Yeah Well, it's a little noisy here. You want to hear it?

01:00:48 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, can you hear that Big.

01:00:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Barely. Yeah, it's not bad.

01:00:56 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I mean, it's not absolutely silent because it has a fan, but it's not noisy, I'm using Surface Laptop 7 connected to a Thunderbolt 4 dock and an external display, external webcam, etc. Etc.

01:01:08 - Richard Campbell (Host)
And it's trying to lift off.

01:01:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No problem at all.

01:01:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, well, that's the part of the point of this right. It's a very low power.

01:01:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Hopefully, yeah.

01:01:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Sipping power device.

01:01:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So for the heck of it, leo, open File Explorer.

01:01:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I see that little manila folder still, because everybody knows what a folder looks like on the left.

01:01:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Go to this PC on the bottom there okay then open that one drive, open windows. Okay, we're going deep. Just type W, hit the W key and then find web and open that, and then I think wallpaper, probably yeah. And then open any folder, just find a picture. Okay. Okay, there's a beauty. Double click to open it.

01:01:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, oh, in photos. You want to see if I have. I want to see if it's there.

01:02:01 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so let's see, I got to try to squint ClipCamp. Maximize that if you don't mind, sorry.

01:02:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
ClipCamp Go away. Clipcamp, I don't want ClipCamp. Yeah, they'll be.

01:02:16 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Quit trying to help me ClipCamp.

01:02:17 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So upper left, I think, is edit yeah, yeah, um, yeah, and then let's see what you got you do have that all right.

01:02:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So the last two buttons there's ai, there's ai baby.

01:02:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, yeah, I'm yeah, uh, is that everywhere? I don't have a model. Does it say restyle image? Yes, it does. Okay, there you go. That's a. That's a copilot plus pc feature. But I don't have a model. It's okay, shouldn't it come with a model? Yeah, copilot plus pcs do, but you can download it okay well, I'm gonna get it.

01:02:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's the image generation extension. Yeah, provides ai models, so now I'm gonna have to choose a model I don't think you're not gonna choose a model.

01:03:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This isn't linux, leo. It will choose the model.

01:03:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There's no choice involved. What's the size of that thing, by the way? 1.14 gigabytes. So it's a model that's definitely.

01:03:10 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I mean they said what was the number Over 20, 23, 24 models pre-installed on a Copilot Plus PC, but not.

01:03:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Or is this?

01:03:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
installing. Well, this is not a Copilot. Plus PC, right? That's what's interesting about what you're doing. Like you're getting the thing that pc makers sort of am. Yeah, I mean, that's why this is fascinating. Yeah, so if you do a like um, if I were to take this surface laptop and do a, reset this pc off of an external iso not the one that's built in this is what would happen to me on this pc, right, because those models aren't on the iso how big is the hard drive on this, richard?

01:03:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
do you remember?

01:03:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
you don't remember well you just look this open file explorer again and go to this pc I have too many mice.

01:03:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm clicking the wrong mouse.

01:03:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Here we go you, you have used a mouse before.

01:03:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, but it's.

01:03:58 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I have several mice now lower left, this pc and it will say on the drive how big it is this is four gigabytes.

01:04:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, that can't be no, no, no, it can't be. Four gig what?

01:04:10 - Richard Campbell (Host)
what? Half a terabyte?

01:04:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
it's a half, it's 512. Yeah, it's not very big. So okay, that's good to know is that?

01:04:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
no, the minimum for a co-pilot plus pc, I think, is 256 jeez, that's not much. And it's 16 gigs of ram, right, I think that's 256. Jeez, that's not much, and it's 16 gigs of RAM. Right, I think that's the minimum, but let's see what you have. Right-click the start menu.

01:04:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is such galvanizing entertainment here and hit system. Right-click the start menu, start button sorry, where?

01:04:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
is the start button on your computer.

01:04:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, there it is, I can't see it, well, it's so small. It is the start button on your computer. There is, I can't see it, well, it's so small and it's so tiny, I know, uh, oh, hey, I got widgets. I had widgets that might have been widgets system, yep, and then it will device specification 32 gigs, nice, there you go. Yeah, that's good, that's pretty good, that's hefty. Uh, it says uh, it doesn't. Yeah, okay, and it is. And you confirming that this is the snapdragon the high end, the one it says something at the end, or whatever yeah, I can't.

01:05:12 - Richard Campbell (Host)
4.3 gigahertz, yeah it's hard for me. That's extra snappy dragon extra snap.

01:05:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's the snappier dragon I'm sorry, everybody, I'm spanish the snappissimo, but I thought there would be some interest in this box.

01:05:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's interesting if you're on video.

01:05:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
For those listening.

01:05:29 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I think our entry for the worst audio podcast of 2024 is pretty much assured, sorry, everybody.

01:05:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Now we all make faces. Do you let me see here when are we in the flow? Do we want to do? You want me see here where are we in the uh in the flow. Do we want to do?

01:05:46 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
yes, oh, let's just quick. Yeah, we can quickly go through. Uh, the dev, the windows insider stuff, so it's not much going on. Uh, there have been three, well four updates, four releases right since last week's show. Um, the, the beta build from last week. Not much going on this minor stuff.

01:06:05
The dev build has some minor changes to the taskbar that are kind of interesting. They're redoing some small UIs there with animations and whatnot. I wish I had a visual of this, but that's kind of interesting, kind of interesting. The release preview one is the more interesting because there are two separate builds, depending on whether or not you're on 23 or 24H2. So that's a little bit new and they have basically the same features in both. Right, because they're still doing that. One of the features that is in this allegedly although it's a control feature release and I bet nobody has actually seen it is that phone link add on thing to the start menu. That was delayed, so that's actually not going to come. We're not going to see that in. Um, the november patch, tuesday day, and then the other things are small. This is stupid. Like you know, the, the all apps list and also the all apps button in the start menu is being renamed to all you know. Hilarious, great.

01:06:58 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So I have to change it doesn't surprise me that all these stacks are derailed. If 24h2 is going badly, all the experienced people have been yanked to firefight, yeah, and everything that's on the list right now is essentially on hold.

01:07:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep. So one of the things we were going to get and this might still happen, I suppose is the new version of Windows Sandbox in preview, so in stable in preview, if that makes sense, right, and this is the one that has like clipboard redirection and audio and video input control, etc. Etc. So actually pretty useful. Windows sandbox is an interesting thing because it's designed for testing an app before you put it on your actual computer, because it's a I don't know if stateless is the right term, but you shut it down and it just blurts, you know it's gone. There's no, it doesn't save the state, it's a. I don't know if stateless is the right term, but you shut it down and it just blurts you know it's gone. There's no, it doesn't save the state.

01:07:46 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's a virtual. It's a virtual machine.

01:07:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
But it's a virtual machine. Yeah, so, but it could become more of a general purpose virtual machine, I think, and it looks like there.

01:07:55 - Richard Campbell (Host)
There's this whole idea that every app should run on its own sandbox, so they just mess with each other at this yes, 100, um.

01:08:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That's what uh chrome os does.

01:08:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
That's what mobile apps, mobile platforms do, right no, no, and every time they try to do it on windows it's broken some badly piece of piece of software that everybody wants right.

01:08:15 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So windows 10x was the original windows 11 um. The big architectural piece was this container-based system where they were going to contain all of the win 32 apps into their own container and then the more modern apps would just have their own container, and what we got was a lipstick on a clown and none of the architectural work.

01:08:36 - Richard Campbell (Host)
To be clear, clowns wear lipstick anyway. This is nothing new.

01:08:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's additional. Look, I can't promise it's going to make sense or make sense as a sentence. I can just promise there will be words.

01:08:48 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Let's not fact check Paul's metaphor.

01:08:50 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Hold on a second. I'm going to follow that up.

01:08:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Cue the music please, I'm losing it. So it downloaded these and now I can do some fantastic things.

01:09:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Which is, by the way you know, co-pilot plus pc, specifically so you've got it so it may be in the paint app. It might have just been because either it wasn't up to date or just the resolution of the system as such. You couldn't see it easily in the toolbar.

01:09:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, um, I do not want to save whatever that is so oh and, by the way, my widget's populated and it knows where I am and everything.

01:09:29 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So that's good. So you only have, okay. So, by the way, widget still has to be updated. That's not done? Oh, because you don't have the feed. But that will happen organically. It's going to happen. And then I would keep an eye on that downloads view that just appeared in the new version of store and keep checking for updates until there aren't any. You're sure there aren't any, okay, um why is this so slow?

01:09:50
it feels like it's, it's really I actually I'm watching this and I'm like man, this feels like you're running it in a virtual machine.

01:09:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's really does it's as fast. This is it's faster.

01:09:58 - Richard Campbell (Host)
My I would also. I bet it's still doing a lot of updates and I bet it's indexing, yeah, and by the way, it might also be downloading those models, right, yeah, which could be multi-gigabytes so I think it's it's just slammed, it's updating too many things, yeah, so in addition to what you're doing.

01:10:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Uh, go make sure you fire up resource manager oh, should I? Okay? Well, I mean, it's not like you're going to be able to clear up resources. I mean well just to see what's going on. Yeah, I mean I would. Okay, I would use taskman for this personally.

01:10:29 - Richard Campbell (Host)
But uh, no, disk is pinned. Yeah, look at that it's all, it's all.

01:10:35 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, did we tell you, it was emmc master, sorry, sorry about that uh actually, that's what the s card slots for Leo.

01:10:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I can't put more memory in. That's true. That'd be your fast storage.

01:10:50 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, alright anyway, I would get that. You gotta bring the settings app back, see what Windows updates doing you're almost. I assume you're gonna have to reboot. But you also want to check for optional updates and that's where you're gonna find driver updates and so forth. So, yeah, it's all the way at the bottom. Okay, ah, it looks like it did it. Yeah, so scroll down, see where it says optional updates at the bottom. Oh, I want to turn those on. Well, to see what's there. I would click on that and I bet you'll have something. I would imagine there's gonna be some for me in advanced options note.

01:11:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh sorry, yes, advanced options, and then Active hours oh, this is all the silly stuff, oh, additional dates here we yeah.

01:11:38 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
it says oh it's a zero. No, you don't have any. All right, there are none, so you're up to date only get help, so I don't have any.

01:11:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, there are none, so you're up to date. Only get help, so I don't need any help Because I've got Mr Thurot under my belt here.

01:11:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I probably should have just full screened this thing. It's so hard to see.

01:11:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, no, I attached. So one of the things that happened is I was not able to attach a second screen for the initial experience, but I now have a second screen for the initial experience, but I now have a second screen attached to it, so I can see it a lot better now.

01:12:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so I think from here I would just update the apps and then you're in, like Flynn.

01:12:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm curious about speed. What's a good way to test how fast this is?

01:12:21 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't know, I'm not sure. I could write a geek bench or something.

01:12:24 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
But I'm more curious. I just use the computer. It looks very slow.

01:12:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
to me it feels pretty sluggish, but let's wait. It's always an out-of-the-box experience.

01:12:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Let us do its thing though this is not a retail box right, so there's probably disk indexing and things that happen before you get a PC.

01:12:39 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I literally would leave this overnight now.

01:12:41 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I would leave it sitting, it'd just be grinding. Yeah, would leave this overnight. Now, I would leave it just be grinding. Yeah, yeah, let it do its thing, but let it calm itself down. The good news is all the updates are done. Um, the store check again, just be sure, like, in other words, when you in the store check up and you checked, it came up with nothing.

01:12:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, okay then you're good, yeah, it came, came up with nothing. And then, uh, let's check the store again.

01:13:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, that's the one I meant. I'm sorry, check the story again. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, this, because it says it's done. But you know, done, done, yeah, but all right, so you just click on some other thing on the sidebar and then go back to this view, uh, which is downloads. Well, no, I'm sorry, not except for that one thing that you click on which is a pop-up window click on anything other than that. Okay, then go back to downloads, get updates. Um, that's awesome.

01:13:24 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Again, again, again, again. Yeah, do it again, I know, thank God, I hope it doesn't come up with something now.

01:13:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
When I do this, it usually comes up with 27 new updates.

01:13:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, you're good. No, that's good.

01:13:37 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, you're relatively up to date. That's good, we're all up to date. So now just let. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah.

01:13:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, who knows, maybe when you did that thing in photos because, again, this is not a supported scenario, like you know, people just don't see that, so it's possible that that triggered a bunch of SLM downloads, right.

01:13:55 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Right, I'd be in my Ubiquiti desktop right now looking at the network traffic going to that machine saying what is it up to?

01:14:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I can do that, yeah, all right. I into that machine saying what is it up to? Yeah, oh, I can do that, yeah, all right, I shall. Uh, I think you're going to see a lot of startup microsoftcom hopefully not a lot of startup msncom. But you never know uh, are you done with week d?

01:14:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I am and we're doing week d. Where are you?

01:14:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
yes, we're done, you're done. Uh, then let me take a little break and then we'll come back. We'll uh bore you even more so yeah I.

01:14:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I don't know that we could bore them any even more, but we could try, we'll try.

01:14:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The chat room says just use your if for those of you listening.

01:14:37 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Use your imagination yeah, we should just have some tech like speech to text thing on the screen. That should be the whole show, yeah it describes a lot of uhs uh, but you know like it's good stuff um yeah, attach it to a pie hole.

01:14:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I wonder how much io there is from just a meeple. Greg m says attach it to a pie hole. Uh, scooter access check activity monitor. Keith 512 says my old machine gets a geek bench 6.3 score of around 6900 multi-core. I could. That's not as geek bench been made for arm?

01:15:10
I don't even know yeah there is a geek bench. Yeah, this episode we should. We'll pause and we'll come back with more excitement. But first a word from our sponsor, this episode of Windows Weekly brought to you by ThreatLocker.

01:15:27
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01:18:01 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So I think the next logical step here is for you to open a command line window and we'll do some WinGet stuff.

01:18:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Actually, that is the sound of a thousand podcast players. Closing no, that's.

01:18:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That's almost certainly exactly what I would uh yeah, it is actually, but I don't recommend that for no. But I will tell you that uh wouldn't get update dash. Dash all we'll get. Or upgrade, I think, dash all We'll do it if you're interested.

01:18:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Anyhow, all right, really, just do it all, just do everything.

01:18:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Dash, dash, all, yeah, I mean. Well, first you can say, just type in WinGet upgrade and see what's there Right, and then you have 512 gigs of storage.

01:18:41 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You're not going to run out.

01:18:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No, it's not a storage issue. It's just you probably don't have that many things in there. It's probably like dev home. It'll just be a couple of things.

01:18:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, let me. I don't see, I didn't mean to grind us to a halt again, I was just kidding.

01:18:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, I guess this is called.

01:18:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is called. This is great. This is called Desktop.

01:19:00
Co5 from Vectron is apparently the name of this device is apparently the name of this device. Uh, I don't know if I can get a. Uh, I don't know if I can get a history. Oh, maybe I can. Let's see what's happening. Yeah, oh yeah, look at all this. Look at that. 3.63 gigs web transfer, 585 megabytes windows update. There's microsoft live worldwide web teams. Oh, thank you, I'm glad I have Teams now Somehow Bing is in the mix. Bing got in there somehow. Five megabytes Bing, another Bing user. Yeah, for the books. Look at that. It got pretty busy, but it's calmed down now. Yeah, that's good Last hour, it's definitely calmed down.

01:19:45 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So I think we're all right.

01:19:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Let's go. Are you bored Am I?

01:19:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
boring you. I just want to move on.

01:19:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I think just, you know, we've had enough.

01:19:56 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Let's move on, shall we? I'm really excited at my future. When I get home, I'm really excited.

01:20:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is going to be fun, isn't it? Yep, here's some good news, in fact. Uh, so good that steve gibson says he's probably going to devote the entire. Oh no, I'm sorry, I moved ahead too fast. We'll talk about that in a moment.

01:20:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Let's first talk about the thing that really matters microsoft 365 yeah, this is uh tangential, but I feel like maybe one of you knows that this is a thing now, but it seems like on both the consumer and commercial sides, there's been a lot of data egress activity on all of the major services where you can import and export data into competing services.

01:20:36
So, for example, there was Apple announced one day hey, you can export your iCloud photos to Gmail or to a Google photos or vice versa, right, which is like this capability, you sort of figure this company would not offer unless they had to, you know. So the latest commercial version of this is something I could have used about a year ago. Google Workspace is now adding OneDrive data migration capabilities, so that I should say OneDrive for business they just call it OneDrive, just like Microsoft does, but it's for commercial accounts where you, as an IT admin, can sign into your IT admin account over at Microsoft and pull the data over for when you're migrating accounts from Microsoft to Google, right? So it's kind of. I'm just throwing it out there, because I feel like there's a lot of this now and I need this to happen in music playlistslists. That's my, that's where I want to be.

01:21:31 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You know, this is interesting, but I would like that going you just need the eu to get involved and you'll be fine, yeah well, that's what I mean.

01:21:36 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Maybe they did, maybe that's what this is right, I mean for the, for this case, so kind of interesting, um, and then there was a leak of what what is a lunar lake based surface laptop 7, right? Which doesn't exist. And the question is, is it going to exist? In other words, will they rev this in the future or is this a prototype? And they decided to go qualcomm. So, according to zach boden of windows central, who we trust explicitly, this is actually coming and it will be. We don't know that it will be called surface laptop 7, but remember they did the meteor like version, I think, in March, mm-hmm on Intel, right, and then they did surface laptop 7 in June on Qualcomm. It kind of makes sense they might call it surface laptop 7, right, but yep, no, that way back in the day they had Intel and AMD variants of Surface Laptop for at least a gen or two. So, yeah, good. And, by the way, this is not good data yet, but I now have Lunar Lake and AMD Zen 5 laptops.

01:22:41
I have one of each, so it's not a big data pool and it's me, but I do the same things on all the computers. I will say the AMD is five stars, like it's going, but I do the same things on all the computers. I will say the amd is five stars, like it's going great, and, uh, battery life is about nine hours, I believe at this point. Um, literally like not so much, uh, that one, four and a half hours of battery life so far, um, which is not what that's supposed to be. So I maybe I don't know maybe something, something I don't know, so that one's early, that one is. I'm going to be with that one longer, so we'll see what happens there. But the AMD one, which is a HP something, something I don't know, I can't remember the names of these things anymore Omnibook, probably. That one's going great though, and that review I should have soon. So, anyway, that's where I'm at with that stuff.

01:23:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Paul, if I ask you a question, will you promise not to get mad at me? No, I can't promise that, but go on. What the hell is going on here? Yeah, so OneDrive personal processing 221,000 changes.

01:23:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yep, so this is one of the many hells that OneDrive.

01:23:45 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, I wonder why it's sluggish so well.

01:23:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So these are, um, what do you call police holders? Right? So the little x there, click that. That's just a little notification, doesn't mean anything. Right? So the where it says processing whatever number of files, and the files are scrolling by as you can see a quarter of a million changes has to get through this. So in your one drive for this account you have. Those are the right. So it's not downloading them to your computer, but it's downloading the placeholders. There may be a more recent name for those things, but it's downloading the placeholders.

01:24:14
So you can see them like search results will show them. You can double click, they'll download them.

01:24:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That makes sense. So that way I can see that it exists in OneDrive.

01:24:23 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, but man, it's weird how they show you this, so it's weird how they show you this. So it's too early. There's not that much stuff in my OneDrive. That's what cracks me.

01:24:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh Well, you won't see all of it now, right, it's the Miley-O photos, that's what it is.

01:24:35 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So if you go back to this is probably too early and it's also too soon, since we just did this to people already. But if you click on OneDrive again and go to that little gear thing, yeah, and then like help in settings I think it's called the settings and help you out, whatever that is, and then go to the left top left, I think sync and backup, or backup and sync, whatever it's called Click, manage, backup yeah, now you're going to want to check this one again. You did not get asked if you wanted to backup during setup, so they're all off. That's good, I'm gonna. Okay, I'm gonna do one more thing here. I'm so sorry, wait for that's gonna take a long time, it's yeah, scanning, it's not getting ready right click, uh, the start button again, sorry, and go to system.

01:25:20
And is it windows 11 pro or home it?

01:25:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
is. I think it's home. It's a 64-bit operating system, I know but expand.

01:25:32 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
this I like maximize this window for sure.

01:25:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Where does it say?

01:25:36 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, there it is, home, it's home, yeah, so you don't get it. So home, it will back, it will sync these to your computer. So you don't want that. So, oh, I don't get a choice in home, no, not. With home you don't. And with pro, you literally roll the dice and sometimes you get a choice and sometimes you don't. So, unless you close, did you close the managed backup window?

01:25:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's still there somewhere hiding. This is it, isn't it? Well, click managed backup. Sorry, oh, onedrive settings Top right of the window.

01:26:06 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Managed backup. Oh yeah, top right of the window.

01:26:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so whenever this wakes up, you're going to want to turn off those these are going to turn on.

01:26:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's going to download them to the computer? No, and then it will just leave it there. Leave it.

01:26:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You gotta just leave it. I have to let it go and then, as soon as it's done, scanning turn well, hopefully, before it's done scanning, you'll get this option.

01:26:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Okay, it's unclear when it comes.

01:26:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So wait a minute. Windows Home automatically turns on OneDrive backup Yep, and you can only manually turn it off Yep. What if you? Don't have a OneDrive. I mean you have a OneDrive account right, yep, well you do.

01:26:46 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You sign in with a Microsoft account, in with. Everybody has a one drive account, but do you not what if I only have five gigabytes? It's not gonna be able to download all of it. Well, actually that's not true, so let's say you actually filled a terabyte of storage and you only have a 256 because I have, unfortunately I have the office 265 I've not. I've actually not tested this scenario. I'm assuming you're going to get an error message at some point. But uh, that would be. It's going to be your fault.

01:27:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You're prompt to just turn that feature off okay, when I see the error saying you don't have enough space for me to restore all of this. Yeah, how much from one drive?

01:27:23 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
space. Does that thing take up? Uh, do we know? I don't know the one drive the one drive app will tell you how much storage you're using, I believe you're using 680 gigs of your terabyte all right, so this will be entertaining.

01:27:35 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Maybe let it go see what happens I'm waiting for the flames to shoot out of it. This is exciting, oh my god.

01:27:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Anyway, um 685 gigs terrified, but what about? I don't even know what's there.

01:27:49 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I don't, I don't I never use I remember when you clicked on the set up a new pc and it's like no, no, it's going to be your old pc.

01:27:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
God damn, all right, yeah, I said I did not want this I said that I said I don't want this to be.

01:28:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I want to set up yep, you don't get a choice with windows 11 home, so no, this is opt-out developer kit comes with home well they. So they've changed the way these things are split up. But I agree with you developers would want things like bit larker, control, etc. So, yes, yeah, I presumably you could upgrade the license yeah, you can, you absolutely can.

01:28:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But don't do it through the microsoft store up, it's too expensive oh, now it's saying, good, this is good, we're having trouble connecting to your one drive.

01:28:36 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, because it's doing the download, but just let it just leave it and wait till that thing's done. Do you want to make sure you get on top of this?

01:28:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
before it gets on top of you. Yeah, yeah, so to speak well, you've, okay.

01:28:50 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This raises an interesting point, because I really haven't tested what happens when you have too much storage to fit on the disc, so that's something I should probably look at.

01:28:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'll let it go, shall I?

01:28:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
and yeah, go ahead, send you some screenshots and then, uh, explosions don't normally recommend that people you know defrag an ssd, but that might, this might be a case where you might want to, after you, get rid of that crap All right, I'm just going to let that window stay there and let it run, and then we'll see what happens.

01:29:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Let's talk about. Pascis. Yeah, you know, this is what I was saying. Steve said this is so important that he's going to do a whole show on it next week. Good, this is a big it's not what we all want.

01:29:27 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
If we go back in time of year, passkeys everyone was starting to do passkeys right Google, microsoft and 23H2, minor Amazon was the big one. Amazon got it right. They did a great job with it. Their implementation of passkeys is fantastic. But what started to happen was all the third-party password managers were looking at making these things portable.

01:29:50
Because the passkey spec is these things are per device. So if you have an online account and you have two computers, a laptop and a tablet, you have to individually create a passkey on each of those devices to use the pass. You know it's a different passkey for each device. The path, you know it's a different pass key for each device. So the dash lanes uh, proton, uh pass, uh, one password, bit warden all have their own implementations now of this type of thing. So there's two types of portability. One is within the ecosystem. So I use proton pass on my computer, I use it on my phone, I use it on my tablet. So if I create a passkey on my computer and save it to Get our John's like proton fast, like I'm like bitwarden no, that's not it that thing will be available to me on my phone and on my tablet, right, that's. That's nice. But, as put this data egress thing I just talked about Part of. So the Fido alliances control the spec. So obviously these companies work with theO Alliance and they're trying to, you know, let's make this thing a specification. So there are two standards they're working on. One is that thing I just described, both related to portability, but the other one is that data egress thing. You have either as a business or just as a human being say like hey, I want to switch to one password from whatever I'm using now, from Chrome or whatever, but I want my passkeys to come too. They're working on a standard for that as well, so you can import and export passkeys.

01:31:13
Passkeys are a lot like recall. Right, they started, no, I mean it, they started. It was on device, it was only that device. There was no connectivity to the cloud, it was specific to that device. But, like with recall, as I keep saying, the future of this thing is obviously it has to sync to the cloud. It's going to go everywhere.

01:31:32
So, with PASCIs, third-party PASCI managers are already doing this. Google just had an announcement we might have talked about, we might not have actually last week, but Google is bringing this capability to Chrome, so you'll have across Android, chrome OS and Chrome web browsers, wherever you are, the ability to use a PASCII that you might have created on another device. It's an obvious need. I think it was last week we were talking. We talked about PASCII for some reason last week I can't remember why, but I kind of raised this notion of we should really think of this as passwordless and not kind of worry about what it is Right.

01:32:12
Leo was asking earlier with the Microsoftrosoft authenticator app what is this thing? Is this a passkey or is this a whatever? And it's like well, this is it's a. It's a passwordless authentication option, in this case 2fa. But whatever password lists are passwordless. Passkeys are arguably the most convenient form of passwordless because you don't need another device. You're're authenticating using the secure hardware that you might have a facial recognition system, a fingerprint recognition or a PIN A PIN you know you have to have that fallback and it's all happening on that device. You don't have to engage with something like a security key or a phone with a 2FA app. So I think this is what passkeys I I think to most people are complicated and security is hard and all that kind of stuff. I think this is what's going to put pass keys over the top for just human beings. It's great for everyone, including technically. It's just easy. It's more convenient. But I think this is the type of thing we could sell on people.

01:33:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I know people say the name was very intentional because passwordless scares folks. But I need a password. Yes, right when passkeys sits in between the two.

01:33:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, Yep, and I think the spread of passkeys will result in more online accounts giving you the option and maybe one day mandating that you do not have a password Right. You can do that optionally with your Microsoft account. Today, I feel like I'm not a technical expert when it comes to security, but I feel like I'm at least semi-technical in general, and I haven't done that. It feels wrong to me, but someday I think that's going to be the way things are, so this is a nice step in that direction.

01:33:51 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I've had enough problems with enough different security options like FIDO keys and Authenticator and things that I have a tough time giving back away any of the fallbacks.

01:34:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But when PassKeys works, it's so sweet.

01:34:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, it's the best. And the problem one of the many problems with this type of thing is that there are so many different ways to authenticate yourself and different accounts support different ranges of those things, and you go from account to account, like I do. You know, I'm always setting up new computers and doing this stuff and then I have to remember OK, so did I sign into this one with my Google account? And then, do I have a 2FA for this or do I do it? You know it's. I think at some point we're going to just standardize on. You'll always have to have fallbacks, I mean, of course, but I think this will become the default best, whatever implementation of this type of authentication, and something that normal people can, I agree at least that's the hope.

01:34:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I mean, I've got a lot of portability that's a critical.

01:34:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Portability is 100 critical. Yep, yeah, um yeah, because like you want to go through this awful process and you're like, all right now I'm just gonna go do this again on my phone. Fantastic, it's the worst. So having that stuff sync is is the best.

01:35:01 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, and more and more saliently. It's like you do not want it to work at one place and not in another place.

01:35:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Exactly, and it's more than syncing, because my pass keys on Apple sync, it's being able to move it to a Google phone instead, which they do not allow today. But Apple, by the way, is part of this announcement, and they will be doing that in their new passwords app, so you will be able to do that.

01:35:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, Okay, One year ago, Amazon announced their PassKey implementation and I immediately scurried over their website to set it up, and I still use it all the time Again, because I sign into different computers and also because I use Kindle and Audible, which are Amazon services. Sometime in the past year, they added the PassKey support to Audible. Like I said and I said this at the time one of the very best PassKey implementations. I haven't looked at how GitHub does it in a while because I love the GitHub.

01:35:52
GitHub was the best one ever. Yeah, I think Amazon and GitHub are right there.

01:35:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think they're both I haven't tried.

01:35:57 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, they're great, but they've signed up 175 million customers to use Passkeys. That's how you get something to happen. And Amazon does it right. It's cute when, like a little bank no one's heard of does it or you know, whatever the service is, but when it's amazon, yeah, that's, that's the general public. A lot of gravity.

01:36:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yep, it's good stuff, so that's neat one more uh little note, one more little snapdragon piece of no, this will be the last one I think you're going to appreciate this, paul. No, no if I scroll down in the sync and backup onedrive settings, yeah, there is something new files on demand, well on, but it says it's going to download cloud files, this pc the first time you open them. Change offline access to all your file selection optional below Free up disk space. Save space by setting all your files to online only. Okay.

01:36:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So that's fine. So these are overlapping features, right? So the issue with OneDrive is that you have Folder backup is three specific folders right, desktop documents and pictures but your OneDrive is bigger than that. There's other folders and then there's folders you might specific folders right Desktop documents and pictures but your OneDrive is bigger than that. There's other folders and then there's folders you might have made right. So if you implement your own little file system, like I do actually in OneDrive, I can go into and I do go into individual folders I've created and mark them as being available all the time offline, that's, files on demand. So technically, obviously, the technology behind this is the same use in folder backup. The question I guess you're asking, or maybe the point you're making, is if I do this, will it turn? Does this turn off folder backup? I wouldn't count on that, so I would look at that.

01:37:42
It feels like it implies that, but you're right, well, yeah, microsoft never uses dark patterns, so I'm not sure what you're implying, but you're right.

01:37:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, yeah, microsoft never uses dark patterns, so I'm not sure what you're implying and then, as soon as I click it, it opens. For some reason, it opens my OneDrive.

01:37:56 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so look at Don't move, don't move, don't move. So where are you in the file?

01:37:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
system right now. Actually, it's OneDrive, leo, personal, so that's the root of your.

01:38:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So you see the little cloud icon there next to one drive. Yeah, what does it say? Processing? Right, still working. So you gotta, you gotta, let that happen. I still have to do it yeah, see what happens. Cause it could still enable process a folder backup, so 40,000 folder backup is also part of the Windows backup process, which is the thing you see what if I rip OneDrive right out of this system?

01:38:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean, you could, wouldn't that be the best thing to do?

01:38:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
at this point I'm not going to say that, leo, I have a book to sell, but the point is, I feel like that's what I want to do every time I install a Windows machine is to rip OneDrive right out of it Is there an easy way to do that? Nope Well, no, you can uninstall. It's an easy Google.

01:38:53 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, you can uninstall it, it's not like Edge, where you're sort of uninstalling it.

01:39:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It sounds to me, Leo, like what you really want is a local account, and then you don't have to deal with OneDrive.

01:39:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, if I had a local account and then you just get rid of, you don't have to deal with one drive. Yeah, if I had a local, you can sign into your account to access apps like the microsoft store you could have. So if you don't, if I hadn't said is it too late, I've set up a, you'd have to set up a new user account.

01:39:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
But the thing is, um, this is different. In 24h2, before this version of windows, it was important to sign in once with a Microsoft account, because it auto encrypted your hard drive storage. I believe now, in 24 H2, it just does that anyway, regardless of your having a Microsoft account, although you have to deal with the. You know. So what do you call it?

01:39:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The John Warner who is actually watching on Tik TOK. Hey, john says just uh, it's easy, just turn off OneDrive.

01:39:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Just turn off OneDrive.

01:39:53 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Everything will be fine. It'll be fine. How do I do that? It'll be fine. Turn off OneDrive. If only we're going to need some artillery. Turn off.

01:40:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
OneDrive. Can I turn off Windows?

01:40:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, you could, there you go, you you know if you don't connect to the internet, one drive can't bother you. There is a version of abuja now that runs on this platform, by the way, but that's a really good reason to sign on with a local account so the well you could unlink this pc right.

01:40:25
One drive is still sitting there but it's not doing anything. You're not signed into it, but you did sign in with a microsoft account, you know is. Is it going to pass through at some point in the future? I don't say I don't use windows like this, I'm not, actually not sure. But uh, my experience is when you sign out of one drive you actually have to explicitly sign in again to use it, but it's kind of limited okay, well, uh, I'll just let this run 360, that's yes, this is the horribleness.

01:40:51
So when I set up windows pcs now this is happened in the last year or so I, once I get everything the way I want it, put it aside, work on something else because that thing's going to churn for overnight and then I look at yeah, you don't have to wait that long, hopefully, but it's going to be hours. And then 685 yes, kind of see where you're at, where you're at with.

01:41:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Uh, that was my mistake at some point must have used one drive. I guess.

01:41:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, yeah, look, the, the mentality is easy is right. You, I have this storage. I might as well put this stuff in another place. Why not, right? But then you signed into window and into windows, and that's why not, right?

01:41:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I want to apologize for the wallpaper I chose. It looks like Pringles.

01:41:33 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I don't yeah, that's not those are the type of Pringles you get here in Mexico. They're spicy and hot, spicy, hot. Made of styrofoam Pringles. That's right, they're of the cardboard the box came in 368 369 000 changes.

01:41:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's going up, not down. That's why what now it's.

01:41:54 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's counting them all for you. It's having a great time. I don't you know. That was the test picture you're supposed to play with and paint. How did it become your wallpaper? I chose it.

01:42:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There's a big mistake. It it does. I made it dark, which I like.

01:42:09 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's now in dark mode, but I love that everyone in the chat is showing you how to uninstall this thing um I uninstall summer access.

01:42:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I uninstall windows one drive every time I set up new windows. It never comes back for me on a local account that's the point.

01:42:24 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh, did that? Why even bother uninstalling it? It doesn't do anything on a local right. That's the problem. I wouldn't even take the time. Who cares? I guess you don't like the icon. The icon is offensive. It's in File Explorer, I guess.

01:42:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So that's a really good argument for doing a local account. You still have to jump through, oh.

01:42:39 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I really want to be super clear about this For the technical people listening to this. Yes, we could have this conversation for normal people like my wife, your wife's uh, I would never recommend constantly broken. Yeah, never recommend that.

01:43:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I know I know just makes me so past keys are real uh and it's a time for a break.

01:43:03
Okay, let's take a little break and we come back with lots more of fun stuff like this. But first I want to tell you about actually it's kind of timely we're at 1Password, this episode of Windows Weekly brought to you by 1Password. Of course 1Password supports Passkeys. But I'm not talking about the consumer password manager 1Password, I'm talking about their enterprise. It's a new thing they call extended access management. This is a great addition to passwords.

01:43:30
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01:43:58
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01:44:51
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01:45:41
I say yes okay, uh, xbox time, kids, the moment you've all been waiting for. Oh, it's happy time.

01:45:48 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It's happy time, happy time.

01:45:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's actually a pretty big week too. Yeah, yeah, nice. Google recently lost a little address, case Little one. Sorry, it was in the news.

01:46:00 - Richard Campbell (Host)
You might have seen it it's fun to be a pernicious monopoly.

01:46:04 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Now, I think the appeal process is going to delay any of this from happening, but Microsoft well, it's trying for me to say Microsoft announced, microsoft did not announce. Xbox president Sarah Bond wrote on threads. What do we call that? By the way, it's not a tweet, it's a thread. Wrote a thread. Is that what we're saying?

01:46:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Posted a thread. Ripped a thread Loose guy's skeets Tweeted. I don't know what a threads are.

01:46:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I don't either.

01:46:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So anyway, what's a?

01:46:28 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
thread. She posted a thread, started a thread. I don't know. Pulled a thread. Pulled a thread. There you go, that's good. Anyway, what she wrote was the courts ruling to open up Google's mobile app.

01:46:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a stitch. How about if it's a stitch?

01:46:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Okay, it could be a stitch, yeah, okay, okay, sorry, that's okay. We'll allow more choice and flexibility. Our mission is to allow more players to play on more devices, so we are thrilled to share that, starting in November 2025 probably, players will be able to play and purchase Xbox games directly from the Xbox app on Android. So a couple things here. Microsoft recently Announced that they were going To consolidate on iOS the previously separate apps for the Xbox app itself and then the Xbox I think it was just called Xbox Game Pass. Yeah, xbox Game Pass app or whatever the other app was called. Who cares? On Android, that's already the case. This is already the consolidated app. We see the same app on Windows, right?

01:47:30
It's not clear to me what this means. So Xbox doesn't have Android games. So how are we going to play Xbox games on Android? Now? Purchasing games on Xbox is not hard to imagine right Today. Through the Xbox app, you have the capability to remotely install a gamer app you already purchased on Xbox to a console, right? So if you have multiple consoles, you'll get a list, you choose which one and that thing will start installing, assuming it's in a power management state where it allows that. But the sentence is so deliberately and delightfully vague. Others other people, not me, but others asked them for clarification and they said this is all we have to say, nice, all we have to do is guess, and I don't know. I don't know what this means.

01:48:16 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Remember when the Blizzard acquisition was all about mobile.

01:48:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so that's one of the possibilities. Right, that King and well, call of Duty. By the way, they have two extremely popular mobile games that run on Android. Maybe those will be among the games that are available to play on Android because they I guess technically, microsoft now owns companies that have mobile games on Android. They are well, but you don't see it today, like you don't see those games as part of Xbox, really, but I guess they are Right. So I guess that's probably what she means. And, yeah, like an alternative to the Google play store, you just use the. Maybe I don't know.

01:48:59 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, I mean we're, you know, we've had so much blizzard content since the acquisition.

01:49:08 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I figured this was a blizzard has a great um, uh. What do you call it? Diablo mobile game, by the way that's.

01:49:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, yeah, I play that diablo. It's actually great. Yeah, I really like it.

01:49:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, so that could. Yeah, maybe that's it. And I suppose, from microsoft's perspective, the point of doing that is that any in-game purchases will now go through them. Not through google, now google will, we haven't figured this out yet, but under under the court order, google will have to still has to get something right for doing this, but it's hopefully going to be less than 30 percent or whatever. So we'll see. Anyway, interesting. So November, she says Hilarious, right? I mean what? Maybe, I don't know.

01:49:46
So I didn't cover this too extensively at the time. I was actually kind of outraged by this. But basically a group of buddies decided to start a lawsuit against Microsoft. Playstation fans essentially worried that Microsoft buying Activision Blizzard was going to trigger the games that they love being worse on the platform they prefer or just not being made available, right, something Microsoft repeatedly said they would never do. It doesn't make sense to own call of duty unless it's on playstation. That's the, you know, the big platform. Then they actually struck deals with I don't know 127 companies to ensure that this. These games were everywhere. They're going to be on nintendo at some point, right, so they're going to be on Nintendo at some point, right, so they're going to be everywhere If Nintendo allows it.

01:50:30 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I can't imagine, right, okay, yeah.

01:50:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I mean, call of Duty 3 was on whatever the Wii, I guess at the time a long time ago, we'll see they tried in I think it was early 2023, to block the acquisition. That was blocked by the courts and the judge I don't have their name here, but the judge said the day after the acquisition these people, these fans, can play these games exactly the same way they played them with their friends before the merger. There is no Microsoft has a legally binding agreement to not do this thing you're so worried about. So the thing that's odd about this, though, that the case actually kind of sit there, sat there, continuing. It's. It's a multi-state case, because some of these guys live in a different state than the guys. I guess maybe they got some other people involved, but it's literally a set of individuals. It's not. It's not a class-action suit. It's it right, it's. It's a bizarre there, and in the court, prison or the legal filings, they're referred to as a group of recreational video game players. So they've said amazingly, microsoft settled with these people.

01:51:38 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I'm betting for one year of ultimate.

01:51:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, we have no idea what the terms are. We probably will never. Well, it's possible We'll never find. I shouldn't say probably, I don't actually know that. Um, the court documents are sealed right now. No one is saying what's happening or whatever, but the terms, I'm sorry. The lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice, meaning these people cannot sue again, right and whatever. So that's I know that was hanging over everyone's head, so that's Thank God. I know was hanging over everyone's head, so that's Thank God, I know.

01:52:09 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I was having the vapors.

01:52:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I have always relied upon the kindness of strangers.

01:52:18 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This isn't new news, but we are finally getting some Activision Blizzard games on Game Pass this month, but we already knew this right.

01:52:26 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So it's.

01:52:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
October the new Call of Duty is coming out. We're going to get Call of Duty Black Ops 6 on cloud, meaning cloud streaming, right. Cloud, xbox cloud gaming, xbox cloud gaming Is that the term? Yeah, I think that's the term Console, obviously, and PC on October 25th, that same day. We're also going to get Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 to cloud. That's already on Game Pass today. We're also going to get call of duty modern warfare 3 to cloud. That's already on game game pass today. Um, so you're going to be able to stream that one through the cloud. I, I am 100 positive. No one will ever successfully play these games on the cloud, but okay, um, and then also warzone, uh, coming to the cloud. That also is available um, across platforms today, and a bunch of other stuff. Actually it's been kind of a light few months, but you know, mech warrior 5 is in there. Um, dead island 2, starcraft remastered that's actually kind of cool. And then starcraft 2 campaign collections. So a lot of good stuff. Uh, in the second half, starcraft is still a.

01:53:21
Thing yeah yeah so I asked the koreans.

01:53:26 - Richard Campbell (Host)
They that's it, I think. Ask the Koreans.

01:53:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think these used to be huge but it's still huge over the next few years.

01:53:32 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
With all the upscaling, I think it's big. Alright, so that's happening. What else we got? Microsoft announced kind of disappointing console refreshes. Why disappointing? Well, yeah, so we're four years into the Xbox Xbox x era s era as such as it is. Um, this is, we typically, by this point, would have seen refreshes. The thing is, with the previous generation of consoles, each of these refreshes brought advances of some kind, culminating with the xbox X, which, yeah, more storage space, 4k, et cetera, et cetera, yeah. So when they announced these, it was like well, we got some new colors. You can get the X in white. That was only in black before. You can get the X in a special edition black. You could get OX, also white and disc-less. I want to be careful with that one. You know okay. You know okay, and it was like you know, we were kind of Sony is introducing a pro right With all this upscaling capabilities.

01:54:32 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yes, but that's the type of like you would expect there to be an Xbox Series the kind of thing that won't fit your stereo cabinet.

01:54:39 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, but a more advanced Xbox Series, whatever, whatever they call it, and then maybe some cost-reduced versions of the current consoles, and that's not what they're doing right. And plus, we had gotten the leaks of these ideas for console refreshes. That looked amazing, right the cylindrical X version, I think it was and so disappointing on those levels. But some people have already opened these things up and actually they've moved from a I don't remember what was it 10, 7 nanometer, whatever it was, but down to a 6 nanometer new version of the chip which is more power efficient and generates less heat. They've redesigned the motherboard, the cooling system. This is the type of thing you would actually expect of a console refresh, and it was nothing what refresh usually means yeah, and they never really discussed that before.

01:55:30
So these things are more efficient. Someone it was a tech YouTuber, I guess said that they observed that this console consumes 10 watts less power than the original version that it's replacing, and 16 less watts while games are running right. So that's actually good stuff, I mean, given all these kind of….

01:55:48 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Is it a 10% difference, like it's still? Why, not.

01:55:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Why wouldn't you just promote that? We love, uh, sustainability and you know, yeah, we love the. You know we love the ecology. We're not killing trees. Yeah, we're burning them for, you know, for warmth, nice, um, so, yeah. So, anyway, these things are available now. So, uh, various price points, various configurations, etc. So I like, I've always liked the white uh xbox series s, so, you know, the white x would be kind of cool actually, but I'm not buying one. Uh, just just to be clear. Um, this one's just a rumor, but I think this is pretty much certain. It's not a big deal, but they're the current xbox uh headset. The most recent one is wired. Um, they're going to come's. Not a big deal, but there is the current Xbox headset. The most recent one is wired. They're going to come out with a wireless version soon, which is exactly the same headset, basically, but with a wireless, probably BLE, in it. Yeah, yeah, no big deal, but but good, right.

01:56:44 - Richard Campbell (Host)
So it's been three years probably since they've run.

01:56:48 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This type of thing just kind of has to happen and you know okay. So it's happening, like the control. Every once in a while you get a controller update or whatever. Yep, um, microsoft, I will see you. Microsoft has had a lot of layoffs this year. They've had some studio closures. It's been a lot of bad news, have haven't been a lot of gaming industry yep, a lot of yep, but we're also. This week is the one-year anniversary, by the way, of the Microsoft acquisition of Activision. Not a lot to show for it.

01:57:13
Price hikes over at Game Pass, they got rid of the most popular tier, et cetera, et cetera. But I will say, if we could look past that, yeah.

01:57:22 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Now can we talk about just not hearing from Bobby Kotick for a year? Yeah, I have a story to tell you about.

01:57:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Where did he end up?

01:57:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I have a Bobby Kotick story. I will share it privately later, by the way. But one thing that has been very interesting this year is there have been a lot of game announcements, like events, where they just announce a bunch of games. I feel like this year there's been more of that than usual. They're doing another one tomorrow. So there's an Xbox partner preview broadcast tomorrow, thursday, for this recording, october 17th. You know it's going to be on YouTube, twitch, et cetera. It's going to be everywhere LinkedIn, because that's where all the Xbox fans are and this is an opportunity for third parties to talk about the games that are coming out on Xbox over the next.

01:58:10
Whatever holidays, obviously, but I bet some of them will be post-holiday as well. So that's good. You know, whatever Steam the most popular online store and PC is, I think I believe they were forced through some legal process to do this. I believe they were forced through some legal process to do this, but they actually and I just saw this because I just installed Steam on a PC now tell you that when you buy products, digital products from Steam I don't know what else you would buy from Steam you're buying a license, you're not buying the. You don't own the game. What.

01:58:42 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Because that's the license agreement. It was always true, but just you know, now it comes up.

01:58:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's important for our oppressors to remind us occasionally how horrible our lives are and that we are worth nothing it's true, though, for, like, if you buy music, uh, on all, software, everything it's you know it's everything right. We always been a license. Yep, this is always any digital content that you buy. You're buying a license and you know sometimes these things run out. We've seen examples of uh content licenses running out and games disappear. You know we're talking about xbox but games disappear, movies disappear, you could lose. Yep, we've seen that happen with apple. Actually we actually books could disappear from kindle, yeah yeah yeah, so it happens.

01:59:25
I mean, to be fair, it's easy to get outraged at this. Um, it doesn't actually happen that much, at least not yet, but of course that's the attitude they want you to have, because you know they're out to get you obviously and it could no, but it could happen, right. I mean, that's the point is, it could happen and it's good that they.

01:59:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think it's good to communicate this.

01:59:45 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I do too yeah right, be transparent and fair and honest, and you know whatever, yeah, so it's good to communicate this. I do too. Yeah right, be transparent and fair, and honest and whatever.

01:59:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's good, and presumably there are people who didn't know that that's right.

01:59:54 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That's right. Just today, someone on my blog or maybe it was yesterday, but someone just recently posted something on my site and said so I don't have an NPU in my computer. Does that mean I'm not going to get 24H2? Now, I'm not going to get 24 H two? Now, I'm not saying this to make fun of this person at all. This stuff is confusing. This is the world we live in. Everything's confusing, you know. So it's just Paul, that was me.

02:00:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I just want you to know what happened.

02:00:22 - Richard Campbell (Host)
I think it's true. He was the one who said oh, you were.

02:00:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
The guy was leo l I don't know, I don't, I didn't recognize the username. But, yeah, some guy named leo. He was like how do I get my microsoft authenticator app on my new phone?

02:00:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
leo, this is really the main reason we do this show is that I can pester paul with windows questions during support yeah, this is actually a good example of brother I am deleting everything from my OneDrive Because there's nothing on there I wanted.

02:00:51 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, okay, I would do that. Well, see, so I would turn that's hard to do by the way Well you could, if it's all in one folder, just go to the website and do it from there. The folder's too big and then you empty the recycle bin. That's what I'm doing. But that yeah, but, um, I would pause one drive on your computer, so stop it from trying to sync, because it's going to run into all kinds of problems right, right.

02:01:12
You can already see some of them how do I pause it uh by the way, it's up to half a million changes so gear icon and you'll see a pause at the bottom. Pause syncing, pause syncing forever it doesn't matter what you choose, because the next thing you should do on it and then quit OneDrive, go through that again and quit it. Okay, quit it, and then, after you successfully Deleted it from the web and removed it from the OneDrive recycle bin.

02:01:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's funny. It's not like you won't let me quit.

02:01:43 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You got it. Hold on, click it again. You had a yellow. They're not currently syncing. Yeah, we know that. All right, now I can quit.

02:01:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, are you sure? Yeah, yeah, you're sure, okay. So now I'm deleting them on the website, but go up a level.

02:02:01 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It wouldn't. I tried to, but it wouldn't. Would you see it?

02:02:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
said it won't. It won't let me delete, so let me try again. But I think it's because it's 548 gigabytes. Oh, that's amazing that it won't let me delete at all so well it looks like this.

02:02:14 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You might have deleted enough previously. That's going to let you do it this time, but whenever this works, whenever this thing is empty, there's a recycle bin uh, on the left, empty that. Yeah, you want to empty that as well? Yeah, then reboot your computer, oh my. God and you know polarity ensues, so it'll be good.

02:02:32
That's a lot of stats. You're still going to be syncing files because it's going to have to sync them in the you know like. It's still going to have to look for the things it did and get rid of you know whatever, but it will figure. It's all right. It's computer science. It's awesome. Yeah, okay let's take.

02:02:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm just glad this wasn't a kindle unboxing today. That's all I'm saying. Yes, no, it's so you got the color one. See, I have a colored kobo, but but I'd be curious because it's a very washed. All these e-ink screen color is washed out, pretty needed. Yeah, it's still better I show it on the ads and stuff. It looks so vibrant but it's not supposedly.

02:03:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Well, yeah, it's going to be. It has to be the same that Kobo is using, but the same basic technology.

02:03:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I bet it's the same panel.

02:03:12 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
They talk about it like it isn't, but I think it is. Most of the content I read on Kindle obviously is just text. Who cares? But you get the color book covers, you get color highlighting. But I do read a lot of graphic novels. Honestly, I'm kind of and also graphic novels on there.

02:03:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's okay, it's better Like a travel guide or something.

02:03:30 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
There are lots of books that have color images.

02:03:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'll be curious what you think.

02:03:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I can't wait. I'm really curious about this myself.

02:03:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And you weren't interested in the bigger the note.

02:03:40 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No, I totally am, but I want the color. So that thing in color that would be of interest to me, yeah, that would be interesting.

02:03:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, so they updated that and I have the first version of that. I really like that.

02:03:49 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
And it's big. 90% of what I do on an iPad is just reading, so I would love to do that on a Kindle and get, whatever it is, five weeks of battery life. Obviously, that'd be amazing.

02:04:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah Well, ask your friend Panos Panay what to do.

02:04:07 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
If my life goes accordingly, I'll never have to do that. Um, we'll see. I don't want to say never, say never. You know he's possible, I'm sure, I'm sure he's uh, our show today.

02:04:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We got a brand new sponsor. Actually, this is a really good sponsor for all you microsoft enterprise users. If you are in in it and microsoft, uh, you know the way microsoft sells support is it's part of the whole package, right, and it it's kind of unlimited, right. But that may be that you're spending more money than you need to. This episode of windows weekly is brought to you by us cloud. Have you heard of them? They're the number one microsoft unified support replacement the us cloud. They're the global leader in third-party microsoft enterprise support. 50 out of the fortune 500 use us cloud. Why? Because switching to us cloud can save your business 30 to 50 percent on a true, comparable replacement for microsoft unified, for Microsoft Unified Support.

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02:08:34 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Let's start off with paul thrott and a tip of the week yeah, I had an actual tip earlier in the show about re-downloading that windows 11 24 h2 iso.

02:08:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Now I have a fake tip which is, by the way, if I did that on this snapdragon, would that work?

02:08:52 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
nope, because you can't download an arm. Uh, iso, you don't have an arm, yet they're going to offer that in the coming weeks.

02:08:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
If you look at that page, there's a note so, once that, and maybe that is, I should just start over well, you can just reset the pc.

02:09:05 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Oh yeah that's right.

02:09:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know that would do and then do a local account. Yeah, yeah, okay, but you have a get rich scheme.

02:09:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm excited for you.

02:09:13 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
My wife and I have discovered a way to make an additional tens of dollars. No, we've got a couple. Well, every once in a while, people bug me about this. So we're going to start a swag store of sorts. Oh good, this, so we're gonna. We've started. Well, we're going to start a swag store of sorts. Oh good, right now, I just have a couple of sample items. What I'm really looking for is not for anyone to buy any of this crap, but rather for people to that's a real way to sell it.

02:09:36
Paul, congratulations, no, no. Eventually I want this to be nice, but for now I just want people to look at the underlying store and see what's available and then tell me what I, because, honestly, it's a really tedious process to get the stuff online, oh for example.

02:09:49
There's this too, if you want to talk to somebody at our end, cause yeah, so for, just as an example, there's a t-shirt that has, I don't know, let's say, 12 available colors. I have to do this thing 12 times. Every time you position the logo exactly to the size, and you know it is horrible. So it is a lot of work on my part. This will be a thankless task. We're never going to make any money from this, but I think it's kind of a fun thing and it makes the fans happy.

02:10:13
So yeah, and just for myself, I could have a little t logo on my phone or whatever.

02:10:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So yeah, so we've never done. I have a, not really cup.

02:10:21 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
No well, we, that was the yeah back when we started throughoutcom, which, by the way, january will be 10 years.

02:10:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Um congratulations, what I can't believe it really. Wow, yep, you were at win supersite when we first started doing this. Yeah, yeah, I was at penton.

02:10:37
And well, it's a supersite since and penton actually, since 99, so 98, sorry, wow, uh, so for 15 so you'd have your Therat logo and you could have it, and what you're wanting people to do is tell you what kinds of things you want, I might have funny statements I may or may not have made on the back of things in some cases. Oh, that would be good. Yeah, we'll see. Oh, we have a collection of those, Paul.

02:11:02 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, no-transcript.

02:11:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Keith says make a screwdriver with the Thurot logo on it.

02:11:16 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah. Or a little toolkit would be great. The little I used to get a screwdriver with the Windows resource kit back in the day Remember.

02:11:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff like that.

02:11:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
That's cool stuff. Threat does what Microsoft don't, anyway. Whatever, I want to be clear this is whimsical, it's not meant to be serious. And then this past week the browser company announced that Arc browser is now available natively and stable on Arc. So they have a native Windows.

02:11:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I'm going to go out and get it right now. You should get it right now because I like I use arc on mac and I really like it yeah, they're.

02:11:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know they're still not quite yeah there's no place, but they are going to be so.

02:12:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, I have, I have hopes here I am a fan.

02:12:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I am too. I'm a little worried because they are chromium based and with Google abandoning Manifest V2 and forcing us all to use V3 and breaking uBlock Origin.

02:12:15 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
So we'll see. Yeah, so those guys, it's going to be a bigger problem than those smaller guys.

02:12:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They say they're going to have to do their like. Brave does build in their own ad blocking.

02:12:26 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I would look at what, what's their? Look up AdGuard and their blog and see what they wrote about this. Because the guys behind what's the big one, the big ad blocker, Ublock Origin, Ublock Origin. Those guys have been kind of bitching them on.

02:12:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's a guy, it's Raymond Raymond.

02:12:42 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Gorhill, compare what he says to what AdGuard says, because AdGuard's like we did it, it's fine, you know, like it's that's because AdGuard doesn't do as much in my opinion.

02:12:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, that's the reason AdGuard's the ones that have the acceptable ads policy. Okay.

02:12:58 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I don't use AdGuard, so I'll let that qualifier. But look, there are. I don't know.

02:13:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There is a UBlock Lite that does work with v4 or v3. And he's telling people to use that. But there are features in uBlock that I use. I use Privacy Badger.

02:13:15 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I use AdBlock Plus.

02:13:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay.

02:13:19 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
You can stack these things just like coupons. It's good, okay.

02:13:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
To some degree.

02:13:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I'm sure at some point they just start fighting each other.

02:13:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know. If uBlock Origin doesn't work on a browser, I'm not going to use it, and I think that's what's going to happen with all Chromium browsers, to be honest, and that's why. Firefox.

02:13:37 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This is random, but I will say I wish Apple had never taken Safari off Windows. There is a world in which a minimalist, safe and private browser is necessary and I would say today, brave plays that role on windows, but we'll see what happens, you know actually I use next dns, uh, and and probably don't really need to come to think of it, uh yeah, but don't you? Don't you look kind of like screwing with these guys a little bit? I do, you know, I know I mean it. No, I do, we're so abused.

02:14:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We're an ad-supported network. I should not be doing this. No, I know, but I think that what we do is responsible ads for products we know and so forth. That's why I'm selling crap on my website.

02:14:20 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's responsible, so it's. There's probably some sexy anywhere I could be selling. I will you know. We'll see where it takes us. Is the point Throat logo underwear. Yeah, I can see your throat is showing. Is that a throat in your pocket? Are you happy? I'm sorry.

02:14:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I will get the arc browser as soon as I'm deleting it. It finished deleting everything from one drive. I'll let you know Richard Campbell on his radio radio what's going on.

02:14:51 - Richard Campbell (Host)
This week's show happens to be with paulie paulie anishevitz, who's out of warsaw, so I'm going to see here this weekend actually nice and uh. This is a brilliant woman who have known for many, many years. Never let her anywhere near your computer. She's one of the best uh security vulnerability testers ever, and so we ended up in a conversation about getting ready for a professional pen pen test and just like. There's so much low-hanging fruit that if you just put a little time in and use some of the open source tools that are available, you're going to pick those things off and make your system more secure, and then you're ready for the pros to come in and really take you to another level it's a great title, pen, test yourself pen.

02:15:34
Test yourself right. Just get in there and just pick up those obvious ones that they're. They're scripts that are designed to look for simple exploits and you should run them against your network and show that you have those vulnerabilities, both internally and externally, so you know what's open on the outside. And also once, once someone's clicked on the wrong thing, like are they able to do a lateral? Have you locked down ad properly? Are you limiting access that way? And these are all. There's good tooling for all of that. So it's a good, smart conversation. Just to like you have some power here. And these days, when we have somewhat limited budgets but we still have some time, uh, this is a time thing. This free tooling, you can do it yourself pen, test yourself and test yourself.

02:16:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
run as radiocom. And now the moment you've all been waiting for, for those of you who are new to the show, because, because we have 775 people watching all over the Internet on TikTok now. Perhaps you don't know, but one of the great features of this show is this guy right here Does whiskey, a whiskey pick every week.

02:16:46 - Richard Campbell (Host)
What is your pick this week? This week is Jameson's Irish whiskey. Well, everybody knows Jameson Whiskey pick every week. What is your pick this week? This week is Jameson's Irish whiskey. Well, everybody knows Jameson Yep, the number one selling Irish whiskey, number three of all whiskeys and a whiskey that has been made for 244 years.

02:17:00 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
It's good, I'm sorry to interrupt. You've got to tell us what one and two are.

02:17:03 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Maker's Mark and yeah, jack, of course, of course, yeah, okay. And uh, yeah, jack, of course, of course, yeah, okay, yeah, uh. So we've already done the irish whiskey story. I've talked about irish before. Like they, arguably this is the, the first and the the. It was the irish monks that were the first to bring distilling equipment in the mediterranean from the mediterranean back as far as the 12th century.

02:17:26
We have documentation of whiskey being made in Ireland going back to 1608, which was the old Bushmills distillery. It had the very first license pretty much anywhere. And then, you know, things progressed until you get to the 17. In 1779 is sort of a pivotal moment where they're starting to put regulation around making the product, and at that time the records show 1200 distilleries in ireland wow. But as the rules come on, that gets a little more difficult.

02:17:56
And that's when the story picks up for jameson, because john jameson starts making whiskey on bow street in dublin. He was born in 1740 in alha, scotland, so yeah, he's actually a Scot, but yeah, 1780 to 244 years ago. And he got in just in time because as the whiskey started taking off, new taxes came into play. So there was a tax on malt barley, which I talked about in the history part because they only taxed malted barley. They. Well, what if we use unmalted barley and other grains? And so one of the things that makes irish whiskey distinct is that it is a mixture of grains, including both malted and unmalted barley. By 1804, john jameson, the second, has taken over, and one of the parts in researching this was seeing pictures of the man's notes from 200 plus years ago. Wow, yeah, so they've got the. They've got his original mash bills written out in this terrible gaelic scrawl it's impossible to read uh by 1821. They're only down, they're down to 28 distilleries. So everything had sort of cut back and was narrowed down.

02:19:07
And I should mention also this is when the uh aneas coffee comes up with the continuous coffee still, or the column still as we. We generally know it now, and at the time the irish were strictly against it. They were using pot stills, but it's the scots that initially adopted to make uh high spirits, to make the 90 plus, and a bunch of things happened when the coffee still got introduced. One was that a lot of distilleries wanted to get rid of their pot stills to use the column stills because they were so much faster in their continuous operating, and so a lot of new distilleries were open on the back of these pot stills, essentially being all but free. That's where Dalmore came from, for example. They were buying former gin stills because those guys were switching over to the column stills. And this is where that schism between whiskey with the E and whiskey without the E came from, because that's how the Irish distinguished what they felt was their superior whiskey from the Scottish whiskey. They used the E, which the Scots weren't doing.

02:20:06
John Jameson III takes over in 1851. And at this point he is a college educated man. He's also a justice of peace and a high sheriff. He's part of the serious society of Ireland. So there's already been 80 years of Jameson in Ireland.

02:20:26
And the distillery on Bow Street is six acres. They called it a city within a city. It employed a huge number of people. It was completely vertically integrated. They acquired their own barley, they did their own maltings, did all of their own production. And so by 1875, we now on to the fourth John Jameson, so literally the same name, four in a row. He was known as jack, also called educated, justice of the peace, high sheriff, but he had no kids, married twice but never had any children. So within a few years, by 1891 they incorporated the company so finally became a limited entity and in 1905 king edward the seventh granted them a royal warrant, which is funny because the next couple of years was the War of Independence against the English which rapidly ended all of that. It's also World War I. So shortages of everything meant that the distillery actually shut down for a couple of years, for a couple of years.

02:21:34
In 1905, the grandson of the previous Jameson III took over. His name was Andrew Jameson and he also became a senator in the very first Senate of the Republic after independence. Prohibition, of course devastating to Jameson, and they largely shut down. That's when the Scots were doing a lot of the exporting and pretty much took control of the American market and kept it. George Lionel Jameson takes charge in 1941. He's the great grandson of Jan Jameson. The very first and the last direct relative of the company, a guy named Alexander Crichton took charge in 1961. So that's six in a row direct family lineage and that's six in a row direct family lineage and that's pretty much in a lot of ways.

02:22:11
When Jameson was fundamentally transformed because, coming out of World War II and the Prohibition, the Irish whiskey industry struggled mightily and so by 1966, there was only two distilleries left, just Bushmills and Jameson, and they formed up with Cork Distillers to create a group called the Irish Distillers Group and they realized that they couldn't afford to run all the different distilleries, that it made sense to build one distillery that was versatile, it was modern this is in the 1960s with multiple stills that could run multiple mash bills and switch between making different productions very quickly. And so the Bushmills distillery up in Belfast shut down, the old Jameson distillery on Bow Street shuts down and they have the one distilling system with three 75,000 liter pot stills and they're able to switch quickly between the recipes to make whatever they want. And this is also when they buy up a lot of the brands and bring them all under this umbrella of the Irish Distillers Group. So they kind of save things like Greenspot and Red Breast all companies that were essentially defunct and Red Breast all companies that were essentially defunct and the Bowmore Distillery that massive facility in 1972, they sell to the Irish government. They pretty much just give it away. It's an obligation they can't afford. They can't afford the taxes. They've now moved to the new Middleton Distillery which is down in Cork, so they don't need it, which is sad. It's an old facility, been around for almost 200 years at that point, but it didn't make sense to continue. But things turned around by the 1980s. Irish whiskey is getting more popular. New distilleries are opening, like the Cooley Distillery, and in 1988, pernod Ricard buys Irish distilleries. So this is one of the big. Conglomerates, like Diageo out of France, make a lot of their own products and so by acquiring Irish distilleries they acquire Jameson as well, and that's when largely the Jameson family exits the company entirely. The government never did anything with the Bow Street facility. In fact it was a huge fire in 1990 that ravaged a bunch of the buildings, but not much was done by it. But with Renaud-Pinard's money they actually buy back a part of the facility in 1995, and they turn it into a visitor center, which opened in 97. And so by 2013, we are up to the new middle distillery is the biggest, still making Jameson all of the spots Telemore, dew, red Breast and a bunch of others. Bushmills reopened their original distillery back in Belfast and continued with that, and a few others existed.

02:24:54
The standardization for Irish whiskey came in 2016, which is that it has to be made in Ireland, both Republican and North being considered Ireland A mash of malted cereals and whole grains. So it doesn't have to only be maltedals and whole grains, so it doesn't have to only be malted. You can use the ends, natural enzymes. So that's the amylase that's in barley, which you can also use, what's called diastase, which is other sacrifications ways to do malting, fermented by yeast, distilled up to as high as 94.8, which is crazy high. That's vodka numbers. Most other whiskeys are not allowed to be distilled that high. You can add water and you can add caramel color. Those are all considered legal. You got to do at least three years in barrels. The barrels can't be bigger than 700 liters and finished at 40%, which is nothing unusual.

02:25:42
They identify three varieties of Irish whiskey. So the single pot, still the single malt, the single grain, and then there's also blended, and that's actually where we come to what Jameson actually is, which is a blended Irish whiskey. So they make some in column stills and part of it in column stills and part of it in pot stills. The half that is in pot stills is all malted barley, so very much like a traditional Scottish whiskey. But then the other half is done in a column still and it's 40% malted barley and 60% unmalted barley, which is unusual for other whiskey makers but not unusual for the Irish. Because of those malting laws back in the day, they got into using unmalted barley and it's part of their normal practice. Is that? It's part of what makes Irish whiskey Irish. They then age.

02:26:32
Jameson is aged in bourbon casks, specifically wild turkey bourbon casks, and then they also do a finishing in sherry casks and they buy from Byass Croft and Harvey's. So for the most part the new make goes they put it in different barrels and they sort of sample it along the way. The minimum they typically leave it as four, but it'll go up as much as seven before they pull together an addition. That being said, I read a great study about the various forms of Jameson. Irish whiskey has been made over the past 244 years and the current version is what they call a lot lighter.

02:27:09
It's a very easy drinking Irish whiskey and because they think that's the style that you know, if you went back to the 1960s, the Jameson of that time was a much rougher product. So this is very refined, straightforward and we drank a ton of it in Ibiza because that's about all they had and it's like, given the choice, drink the Jameson, and so we happily sipped away. It's 40%, which is just a classic spirit number. Nothing exciting because it is chill, filtered and colored, and it's $20 a bottle. Keep this on your shelf. This is a reliable whiskey. I really like Jameson. It drinks neat, it drinks with ice, it drinks in cocktails. It's incredibly versatile. It is unpretentious and it is good. And it's not peaty, not a bit of peat. The Irish are strictly against peat. That's not a thing. That's a Scottish thing.

02:28:04
They don't do that, yep.

02:28:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
My brother-in-law is an Irish whiskey fan.

02:28:11 - Richard Campbell (Host)
It kind of turned me on to it and I didn't say this, but all Irish whiskey is triple distilled. So they only you know they go through multiple passes with the pot stills. More than the Scots are like a double distillation, the Irish are like a triple distillation on their pot stills.

02:28:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Does that make it smoother? What does it do?

02:28:28 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, depending on who you ask, it's either smoother or stripped of any substantial care.

02:28:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Nice or both. Yeah, yeah. It's it's an unassuming.

02:28:41 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, it's not a Scotch, unless you have internal bleeding or peanut butter. Yeah, yeah.

02:28:51 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Vaguely traumatized. You had the wrong drink, right? Yeah, like you know, I sat around with a group of really fun people at an amazing uh weekend for our friends and we drank a lot of jameson and told stories and had a lovely time and I thought I would share that story with you, that's wonderful, uh, richard campbell, for those of us, you who are new to the show, has we've put together whiskey verse, as we call it yeah to the whiskey verse.

02:29:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We've put together an entire uh playlist of his scotch, because there's quite a few now, his scotch stories 200, I think. Really, wow, yeah, so kevin, or how many have you done? Or over 100 now on your playlist, how many, how many? We call it windows whiskey and uh, windows whiskey has a uh has quite a few. Yeah, they're up to 45. 45. Thank you so much, kevin King, our producer and editor. He has put together quite a few of these. So the whole beginning of it is how whiskey is made.

02:29:59 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Specifically Scottish whiskey.

02:30:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it's an introduction to the process of whiskey making. And then he's got quite a few picks in there, including our favorite, abalura and the great story of how that went down that day yeah, there's some really good, really good stuff in here. Uh, if you, uh, if I are a fan of brown liquors, this is a great and we're almost up to date.

02:30:23 - Richard Campbell (Host)
That's really good okay, it's about half about half.

02:30:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah, really great playlist windows whiskey. The next one is glenn geary. Ah, nice, glenn geary. Glenn ross, so that will be, uh, that will be something to look forward to. Uh, on our youtube channel. Of course, you can watch this show on our youtube channel as well.

02:30:45
Paul thurad and richard campbell gather together together every Wednesday, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 1800 UTC, to do this show, which means you can watch us live on those eight different channels, from YouTube and Twitch to brand new. We're on TikTok, xcom, linkedin, facebook and more Watch live. But if you do watch live, do me a favor, download a copy too, because that's the only thing we monetize is the downloads. So you can go to twittv slash www. Download it there. Paul puts a copy of it at his website. That works too. Therotcom there is a YouTube channel which doesn't really count as a download, but it's very handy. It's the video version of the show for sharing. So if you just wanted to you know, if you had a brother-in-law named Joe who really liked Jameson, you might want to share that little clip. The YouTube channel makes it very easy to do that. It's Joe's birthday tomorrow, so I think I'm going to have to go get some Red Breast or something Brilliant. I've got to get to work. What do you? What's your? What's your favorite irish whiskey?

02:31:49 - Richard Campbell (Host)
yeah, you know, the one in front of me most of the time, yeah the red breast was good. We got him that red breast. Go get him a green spot or a yellow spot if you really like a spot. Yeah, if you can find the yellow spot, it's a bit yellow spot okay pretty special stuff. Yeah, there is actually a blue spot, but I've never seen it. It outside of Ireland and it's quite pricey.

02:32:08 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, we just saw a yellow spot in a bar in Pennsylvania, but that's unusual too, okay.

02:32:14 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, if you find it, you'll really like it. There's nothing wrong with the green spot. The green spot is the basic and certainly not bad by any respect, but that's like a $40 bottle and the yellow is more like $100.

02:32:25 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
This is just nice because it's everywhere, like you're always going to be able to find it. It's kind of like Jack Daniels, like it will be there. So if you like this kind of thing, it's you know it's a good choice.

02:32:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I'm sure Joe knows all about it, yeah.

02:32:36 - Richard Campbell (Host)
BevMo's got Yellow Spot for 150.

02:32:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'll go get them there's a.

02:32:42
BevMo down the road. I'll get barbecue tomorrow. Um, you could. The best way to get the show really is to subscribe. But you know it's a podcast, so you can go to any podcast client search for windows weekly. If you go to twittv slash ww, there's some links there to some of the more popular ones, like pocket casts. If you subscribe you'll get it automatically. Then you don't even have to think about it. You just know I have a windows weekly this weekend. Every week paul thurott is at thurottcom thu double r o double. Good, uh, that's become a premium member. There's great content there. Some of that premium content gets into the books like windows everywhere, his most recent book, which is kind of a story, the story of windows through its development frameworks. I don't know, it seems so simplistic to say it that way, but I you know it's a tough sell, but I think it's actually.

02:33:31 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I think I think people would like it. Even if they weren't, it's great it's not.

02:33:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh it's great, yeah, it's wonderful, I mean I.

02:33:37 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
I think it is a lot of history, which is you know paul's been there the whole way.

02:33:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So you know, this is a, this is a guy who, uh, can tell a story. Uh, he also has the Field Guide to Windows 11, which, if I would just gosh darn, read it, I wouldn't have to keep asking him all these questions, that one's being updated almost daily right now. And there's Snapdragon stuff in there, right.

02:33:59 - Paul Thurrott (Host)
Yeah, starting to. Yeah, I'm starting to incorporate that.

02:34:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I'm co-pilot, okay, I guess I better get that Field Guide to Windows 10 is inside as well. All better, get that field guide to windows 10 is inside as well. Uh, all of that leanpubcom, richard campbell's podcasts run as radio, and dot net rocks are both available at run as radiocom, including that new one on pen. Test yourself, test yourself. Uh, we thank you so much, paul and richard. Paul is in mexico city. You'll be still there tomorrow, next week, right? I'm sure Richard is in Porto. I thought you might do a port today.

02:34:34 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Yeah, you know, I've got a couple floating around, but I might do them next week too, Okay Because?

02:34:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'll be in Warsaw. Oh boy, and is it the Vin there? What is it that?

02:34:45 - Richard Campbell (Host)
you drink in Warsaw. Usually I'm able to get Romanian and Moldovan to Vin. That's about as far west as it gets. So I do have a couple of specialty shops I visit in Warsaw to stock up a bit, a little convince. Stock up on the Devin? Yes, but you know it's a vodka town and they got a vodka for every occasion. You know they have a lot of potatoes.

02:35:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So it's natural that vodka would result.

02:35:07 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Well, it's like got a stomach upset. I got a vodka for that. You name it. They got a vodka for that. Oh yeah, that's hysterical.

02:35:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, that's hysterical, all right. Well, we'll see what we do next week, but it'll be sure to be alcoholic, let's put it that way.

02:35:21 - Richard Campbell (Host)
Thank you, Paul.

02:35:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, it's not like I would do this sober thank you paul, thank you richard, thanks to our club members especially, who make this show possible. The club is so important to us. I don't know if you've heard, podcasts are having a little trouble. These days. It isn't as easy to make a living as a podcast and especially difficult for us as a podcast network. We have many shows, um, but we want to keep doing it because I think, especially now with the advent of ai, this, the fall of intel, there's a whole bunch of stuff, uh, that's worthy of coverage. We have a job to do and while we have advertisers and we are very grateful to them, uh, it also takes, uh, our listeners to keep this show on the road. So all you have to do is go to twittv, slash club twit. It's as little as $7 a month, although if you want to pay more you can. There are lots of benefits ad-free versions of all the shows, special programming we put together.

02:36:17
Tomorrow I'm going to do a coffee, another coffee episode in our kind of continuing series with the coffee geek, mark Prince. He's going to bring along a connoisseur of coffee beans. We'll start at the beginning and talk about the beans, which are a very important way, a very important part of coffee. I think they're the whole part actually. No, there's water, there's the machine. There's a lot of technical skills involved, but you got to have good beans, and we will talk about that tomorrow. That's a special event for club members. Stacy's Book Club is a week from tomorrow.

02:36:52
With the Creative Corner, with Micah, I'm going to start doing, I think, a call-in radio show, overnight show. I just want to play around with it. It was kind of always my goal in life to be a late-night, non-stop truck-driving show guy, and well, I have my own internet studio. I guess I could do that. So all of that's in the club, though, and that's the key. And so your $7,. Oh, you also get access to the Discord, where there's a great community of people talking all the time, not just during the shows, but the real reason that you spend $7 a month is to keep the shows like this continuing. We're doing everything we can to tighten our belt and keep our costs low, but we still need your help.

02:37:31
So twittv slash club twit. If you haven't yet joined the club, I invite you to do so, and you see this. You can scan the QR code in the upper left or go to twittv slash club twit. One more thing we've just added a referral program. So if you're already a Club Twit member, I'm looking at you. If you're a Club Twit member, you can refer another member, a new member, and get a free month when they join. So if you are not yet a Club member, join at twittv slash Club Twit. Or if you are a Club member, refer people to it and there's a whole referral page at twittv slash club twit and get a free month. It's that important to us. We really, really appreciate it. Have a wonderful week everybody, all you, winners and dozers, and we'll see you next time on windows. Weekly bye, bye-bye.