Windows Weekly 855 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Ott and Richard Campbell are here. Well, actually they're in Seattle for the Ignite Conference. Microsoft made a ton of AI announcements. It's co-piloting all the things they'll tell you about con. Also this week, Richard will have something to say about that new releases of Windows 11, Xbox Series X. We'll get Paul's review of Modern Warfare three. I don't know how he feels about it. We'll find out that and a whole lot more coming up. Let's go to Seattle with Windows Weekly. Next podcasts you love from

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Leo Laporte (00:00:45):
Windows Weekly with Paul Thora and Richard Campbell. Episode 855 recorded Wednesday, November 15th, 2023 live from Ignite. This episode of Windows Weekly is brought to you by THT Canary. Detect attackers long before they dig in. Get alerted when your system's breached. Just three minutes of setup, no ongoing overhead and near least zero false positives for 10% off and a 60 day money back guarantee. Go to Canary tools slash twit and it entered the code twit in the How did you hear about this box and by Melissa, the global leader in contact data quality. Bad data is bad business, so make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Get started today with over 1000 records. Clean for free. It's time for Windows Weekly, the show we cover the latest news from Microsoft and I think I can tell from our hosts Richard Campbell and Paul Ott that they are at Microsoft Ignite in Seattle.

Hello, gentlemen. Hello. Hello. You are in a terrarium somewhere deep within the Redmond Empire. Yeah, we're in a people aquarium for sure. Are people staring at you? Not at the moment, not yet. We're in the far corner of the top floor of this building. We got to stay on that mic, so we'll be a while before, but there is ACIO summit right across from us, so I expect CIOs to be staring at a suit. How exciting that is so exciting. Well, I don't, can't do separate because you're all in the same room. So one camera. We're all sharing one camera and I can't even separate your microphone, so you just, I've got a local two track recording if you want it. I think we're good. It sounds all right. Yeah, great. These seven BSS are pretty good. They're nice mics. Oh, I love 'em. I noticed that Microsoft announced they're going to co-pilot call it copilot everywhere.

Is that one of the things they announced at Ignite now? How many shots did we take when Jared was saying copilot over and over and over again, if we had taken shots every time they said copilot, we would both be dead. There was a lot of copilot, but you know what? It's okay because for once Microsoft has a good brand, they're really running with it. Maybe a little too much, but Well, I think that stopping using the word binging, which by the way, I've been since February, I've been like, Nope, you don't go to market with the name binging. You can't do it. No, no. Bing ai. No, Bing. It's copilot. Let's face it, the binging name tainted. It's not good.

It's not a Zoom exactly, but kind of right. Kind of nice. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean that doesn't mean any feature differences, right? It's just right. Yeah, but it's a bit of clarification. Remember back in September, they semi clarified it and then I think now they finally come full circle, which is just the base layers called copilot. It's in everything, all the copilots, that feature that was called Binging Chat is now called copilot for binging or just copilot actually. And that's just the name. It's the foundational layer for all the copilots. And then as you go out to copilot for Microsoft 365 or copilot in Windows 11 or whatever it might be, there will be additional capabilities built on top that are context specific to that product. There's still too many, but they're trying hundreds. At least they're aware of it. Literally hundreds. There's literally hundreds.

He kept saying, we're putting these together, won't be a problem. The work and home switch made me sad because it's just like accounts, right? You go to log into a Microsoft property, it's like this is a home account or is Big Brother watching or is my corporation watching? It's a matter of oversight. Which surveillance system would you like? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Surveillance is a service. That's it. Anyway, and too many studios. That was the other one. That was the other one. Yeah, studio, a lot of studios, a lot of new language, by the way. So Leo, are you familiar with the term small language model is something Yeah. Oh yeah. Because I usually work with Tubby language models, which is the other end of the language model weight spectrum. So as these things, as Microsoft's AI services go live, they're coming around to this notion that this is going to cost us a lot of money, and so we need to work on hybrid, but also just local AI and that small language models will make sense locally, but also workload specific cloud things.

Depending on what the needs are, you can get away with something smaller. It's more efficient, beneficial all around. So that's another term that I don't know that Microsoft was so big on before this show and what was the other one? Grounded. Grounded search. Grounded web. So ai, yeah. This notion that AI models are grounded in, so like a public AI service, what used to be binging chat, which is now just copilot is grounded in the web, is the terminology. And then of course the Microsoft graph stuff, I should say copilot for Microsoft 365 I guess is technically grounded in Microsoft Graph. It's the internal corporate data is how, that's how I understand it. We're still, it's kind of a fog of war thing still, but I am feeling like it's language designed to soothe. Yes, everyone's got, so let's see words that make people call.

We have a gentle copilot sab. We can put right on you. Be all right. We have not as sooth, as soothing as Bob, but call me your AI overlords are here and they're going to be kind. They're going to be benign. Yeah. I think a lot of the keynote was kind of around addressing the concerns about AI both for people and for companies, and this is going to be a debate we have for years. This is not going away. Well, if there's anything you got from this, it's like Satch is all in. You think just so all in. Well, I mean they're smart. They have a lead here, right? They're relationship company AI gave them and arguably for the first time in a long time, they also have that kind of unique combination of capabilities and infrastructure and surprising for the Microsoft of what I will now call the previous era, the kind of cloud era of Microsoft, a real desire to take a leadership position, be out there.

This is not the consent decree. Microsoft, the supercomputer statement was interesting. I did an interview with Russinovich a few months back and he talked about when they built GPT three and at the time they had to harness a whole bunch of Azure to do the build. It was the fifth largest supercomputer in the world at that time, of course. Didn't immediately repurposed the gear and it hit me that the fact that they have all of these computing centers means they could make a supercomputer on demand on the fly basically, other than they have customers that are trying to use those. That's why Xbox X Cloud went down it. It must be it building the super. We were busy making a supercomputer, so Satcha talked about making the third largest supercomputer. It makes me wonder if that wasn't the build for GT four because they've been pretty secretive on the data about GT four.

And of course, because all the supercomputers in those, that class number one and number two, they're both American one's in Illinois. They're the ones in Kentucky and they're purpose-built machines. It occurs to me that Microsoft, once they get to a certain state with their cloud, could every time there's a new top supercomputer machine, just run the workload on Azure and beat it and then okay, now we're number one again, and then they build a bigger one and then they do it again. Yep. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. It'd be fascinating. It's a different way of thinking about super computing that you basically have a dynamically repurposeable machine. Yeah, it's a supercomputer for the cloud error basically. Yeah, totally different. Yeah. What else? What else? Oh yeah, so there's a bunch of, I mean obviously, well maybe not, obviously I tend to focus on the client stuff, but there'll be a few, we'll throw some Azure stuff in here.

There was some interesting stuff there. So the copilot rebranding 2.0 I think was the rebranding. Clarification I think was important and well explained. Jared Pataro does a great job of just speaking in general, but he did a good job of explaining it. I thought copilot from Microsoft 365 launched earlier this month and I should say launched with air quotes for enterprises, companies that had 300 seats or more. They didn't really talk about the expansion of that, although that will have to happen eventually. They did talk about this notion of it receiving the plugin support, which we always knew was coming. So that's going to get much more interesting with access to third party data sources, not just the Microsoft grounds. I'm wondering if they just need to run some instrumentation on 300 seat or so and say, are they getting good results? Yeah, this is doesn't, yeah, when they first rolled out Azure, it was sort of, let's just see what happens.

We're going to send you fake bills. You can see what that looks like. You can give us feedback and we'll see. I think we're in that phase with this stuff. Yeah, they definitely want to, I mean, you saw the list of companies that are co-pilot powered. I know it must've been their, that pioneer group, the ones a few months ago. That's right. They didn't explain, they never said any names, but now we know who they're, they did. So you got to bet that they said, Hey, we'll let you in on the early trial, but you got to give us your logo to use at a keynote, which obviously they did, but those are all huge seat counts and that to me, it's like you think about how much data you need to really have the LLM do something useful for you. Yeah, that's a good point.

So I'm wondering if their instrumenting is not out of that. Just watching, how do these models behave when you look at corporate data, what's it going to be like when this account, when you talk about small business, it's four people. What kind of data, what kind of results are you getting is going to be useful? I think the small business stuff is going to skew toward the same thing they're doing with individuals, which is you basically have this one drive or SharePoint shared data store. You have email contacts, you have calendars, events, you have had meetings and so forth.

We'll, see, I don't know. I I've not been able to test that stuff, so I am curious. Yeah, I just got notified as the regional director. I'm going to get it and I'm a small enterprise. Yeah, we'll at least have some view into all of that. Yeah. You want to talk about the loop part? You watched that loop part? I did. That was out except I was so disappointed. You have to have a commercial account or use it on mobile. It's not available for, so Loop is generally available for commercial. So this is the Microsoft 365 commercial customers. If you are an individual in loop with my Microsoft account as well, I guess it's technically still in preview, but you should be able to access it on the web and on mobile. But I could be wrong about that. I'm using it on, I am using it on mobile for sure.

Sure. Loop is what we've kind of known it to be for the past, I don't know, several months year, which is a Microsoft's version of kind of a notion from a UI I perspective. It's a new style of working and collaborating new to Microsoft, I should say. Right? So obviously they have these legacy tools that are very popular. We're at Excel, PowerPoint, et cetera. So this is kind of that new note taking app style app with modular components and draws in different data sources if that's what you want in a company. I'm actually surprised they didn't go with the consumer version first. It would've been easier, but yeah, I like it. My experience has been that it's unreliable and buggy really. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I haven't had any problems with it. I just don't like the threatening messages. You keep sending about you're using a trial.

Yeah, exactly. And then of course they try and soften it with everything will be fine, but you're using a trial. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm not using a trial. I have an E five. Come on. So I have the simplest, well think about the notes we do for Windows Weekly. This is a notion, it's just text, it's simple. But I have an even simpler thing I've been testing it with, I just have my gym machine list and what the weights are I use on each thing and it's a little disarming to be at the gym and you hold up your phone and it won't load. It says something's wrong and it's like, I just want to see a number. It's literally just a text file. This has got to be authentication, which does seem to be Microsoft's a bug bear, even though they are working on it.

Then. So I could switch it over to my commercial account, maybe see if that's any better, but if you are in commercial, it's ga. So it's out there now. I dunno. I think we'll see. I see if it's different. I like it. I too, I've now moved all the whiskey notes there. Okay, we'll get on Loop someday. One day you'll come in and we'll, as good as, I mean we're using Notion now and I really like Notion. Obviously Loop is a direct clone of Notion or is it pretty clone? It is from a UI perspective. I think that the architecture they built behind it is actually unique to Loop and it's very powerful, but there's also a case to be made that kind of power isn't necessary for the type of thing we're doing. And maybe something simpler, more lightweight might be better. I mean, well, we'll test it.

Well, and then one would argue it's stepping on OneNote, but that's only when you're using that aspect. It's the loop components where things get really interesting. That's right. The idea that I can make an Excel loop component and I can email it to someone, but it's really emailing the loop components. So it appears like Excel. We talked about this probably a year ago. In fact, it might've been exactly a year ago. This notion that Loop essentially from an architectural perspective is the Olay stuff from the late nineties, but applied not to just documents a new computer, but to your organization or the internet or whatever it might be. So it's like internet Olay, I don't know how else to say it. And that was the whole idea is hey, here's this older salesperson got, we can't get him into teams. He just doesn't do it.

He doesn't look there. He looks in his email. So I email him the current price list in a spreadsheet that automatically updates every time he opens it. That's right. Because it's a loop component. Because it's a loop component. This is what Olay was, right? The idea that you could open an Excel spreadsheet inside of a Word document when you clicked inside of it, the toolbar would change to be Excel toolbar, but the data was live so that if the underlying file change somewhere at some point you would see that in the Word app as well. And so we're applying that same idea. Your example is great because in organizations now you have a mix of younger people who are really comfortable with teams and older people who are not leaving Outlook until they're dead. And this allows everyone to participate in the same collaboration. You don't want to have to leave them out and you're emailing them copies of things, get rid of that plague.

That linked thing sounds like we'll handle it in the back. You don't have to worry about it. He thinks he's sending you a copy of the document. He's not he's, he's actually setting a reference to the SharePoint location. So you sold that one Master Truth or whatever you want to call it one. And I think it's really brilliant. Well, how is it different? The notion? It's that stuff. It's that stuff. And that's why it's taken so long. We've been talking about Loop for at least two years. It might even be three. Hard to remember. Well, and I think you have the problem of what is this? Are we replacing OneNote? Are we notion? Yeah, we're back to what happens and then we're solving all these other problems too and integrating through teams. You also use Loop through teams. Yeah, and that's interesting too because concurrent with this, I guess we have a new teams that came out a couple of months, well actually it's GA now.

I've been using it for a while, most people, but it actually that's also today new version of Outlook, which controversial in the commercial space. It doesn't have all the features yet, but both these things, I think were all designed to be used together. This is the point. That's good. You want to talk about clip channel teams hitting over 300 million or three. Paul always wants to talk about Clip Jam. I do want to talk about Clip. Great. Have I mentioned Clip Jam? It's really, it's a clip jam kid. I really am. I've never turned on an app so fast. It was so great from day one. But before we get to that, so like I said, the new teams at ga, they announced a new number for teams usage, which honestly, I've kind of parsed their language as they said it in real time. It is still growing.

One of them said not as fast as before. So I think it was 300 million back in probably May. I'm assuming that was tied to build and that was the last milestone and now it's 320 million monthly active users. There is a teams feature called Mesh. We're trying to pretend doesn't exist, but it's coming in January. This is that mixed reality. It looks a lot like Windows mixed reality where you have these virtual rooms and the guys float around without legs and stuff. Is that Horizon world from Facebook? Yeah, it's very, very much like that. So that's arriving in January. You have to assume they wanted to have that shipped now, but whatever. And you can mix and match real people with the avatar people and have virtual environments and it's supposed to be a little bit more natural. I think it makes it a lot more unnatural, but that's okay.

Now you like the new teams? I do. Have you gotten the dialogue pop up that said, do you like the new teams? Do you want to go back? Oh my God, actually the only thing, so I had major problems with Microsoft teams before the new version, and it kept resetting my audio and video settings and it would just, for some reason couldn't do all that stuff. It would pop up boxes in the middle of meetings and say, Hey, did you know you could use Excel? And it's like, guys, I'm in the meeting, why would you do this now? So the new teams comes out, all those problems are solved or they seem to be much better, but the thing they pop up all the time is like, Hey, we see you're using the new teams. Are you sure you want to use the new teams?

Would you like to go back to the old teams? No, I'm using the new teams. Leave me alone. I'm temping. You go back, it's so weird. Do you think it's research? Let's make sure people want this. I'm sure it was well intentioned because new things are bad for some people and they were afraid that, I dunno, people could get back, but if you never clicked on it, you don't know if you actually get back or if it'll ask you more questions. Well, the thing is too bad you're never getting, both apps are on your pc. It'd be funny if it laughed at you and said, no, no, sorry buddy. That's not happening. The window's closed that one. Let me load Slack for you. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, no, the new teams just a huge improvement. I spent the past two, three years complaining about teams and now the new ones actually, it's great.

So that to me is a big step forward. It's weird. It's just becoming an app that you use and it's not a big deal. It's what it should have been from day one, right? So that's good. Takes a while. Lighter weight, faster performance, et cetera, et cetera. So that's good. We should talk about the Windows 11 stuff. Yeah, I think one of the things, I wrote an editorial about this, well, I published it this morning. I wrote it over the past couple of days, but I was sort of reflecting on two major themes here. One is these eras of Microsoft, not errors, but eras of Microsoft, right? The Microsoft, the scrappy startup, the Microsoft that dominated the world with Windows and Office. The Microsoft that lost the script after the antitrust stuff, the Microsoft of the cloud computing era and the Microsoft of the cloud computing era is the most successful version of Microsoft by far from a sort of financial perspective or market cap, however you want to measure that.

It is by far also the least interesting Microsoft to me because it left Windows behind, right? It's cloud company. Yeah. The push from Satch and Nadel at the time was you need to make your business make sense, but it also has to make sense within this new Microsoft. And there are some businesses in Microsoft that lent themselves very naturally to this model of the server business transitioning into Azure and Entra and all those new purviews and all that stuff. And then office transitioning to Microsoft 365 though at Xbox even although it hasn't happened, there's this kind of obvious future for those businesses. The future of Windows is not Windows 365, although that will be a thing is a thing. But as far as the volume usage of Windows, it's still very much a client locally installed desktop operating system and it kind of got left in the dust and there was so much despair over those not quite 10 years, but let's call it 10 years, I guess it was about 10 years.

So the nice thing is now we've entered this new era era with Microsoft, I'll call it the AI era. And AI is the wave that lifts all boats. Windows gets to come along for the ride. And these are goofy little examples. And I don't mean to suggest that this is where AI stops when it comes to Windows, but if you think back just a few years ago, I would say 20 16, 20 17, we were in this hell of Microsoft would ship two updates, major updates to Windows every year. They were talking about creative, creative updates. Remember, everyone's a creator, which by the way is actually Semit. True. Yeah, reasonable. But the features they put in Windows were ridiculous. Paint three D and three D view with all this silly things that were very kind of esoteric and niche usage and not broadly applicable to most of the audience.

And of course they quietly stopped working on that stuff eventually and actually took it out of Windows. But you look at the little things just because AI has happened so fast, you got to remember internally, this started a year ago right now with the email from Sach and Adell, the public face of it started in February, which is what, nine months ago. There was a couple of major milestones in March with Microsoft 365 in May with all the announcements from Build in September with all of the call 'em non announcements or at least rebranding, so, so forth. And now here we're at Ignite. That's a really short period of time for a company like Microsoft to not just announce everything they've announced, but to ship everything they've shipped has made as many things as they've made. Yes. So in the Windows space, these are minor things, but they're actually so much better than the junk we got in those creator updates, things, background removal and paint, which sounds like a silly thing to even talk about, but I use Photoshop and I got to tell you, it works better than Photoshop, but it's instantaneous.

It's fantastic. And that is for someone who I don't spend a lot of time in this stuff. I do have some art background or whatever. So a little bit, I can sort of figure this stuff out a little bit, but for someone, most people don't. And for something like that to work so well, it's just amazing. Photos has some stuff going on. There's text recognition functionality in the snipping tool. I mean, like I said, these are small things, but they actually benefit a far larger audience than you think about the cumulative time saving and all of that. Yeah, because only a few things here and there, but everybody touches it, right? And it's going to get better from here. So it's fascinating to me that Microsoft has already integrated copilot into Windows. And yes, it's early and it doesn't do much on the windows at Windows, but it might be what saves Windows.

We all still need an operating system, but which operating system was rapidly becoming irrelevant and now you have Windows need saving. Well, yeah. Well, in the sense that, so look, when I call this copilot weekly, I mean, is this something I should be aware of? Well, that's not, I mean, windows, according to Microsoft, 1.4 billion users, a billion of them are on 10. What a slop. Yeah, yeah, Tara. Well, but they're in different ways of measuring success. You got to remember, a lot of the usage of Windows is just inertia. It's just people who have been, I should say, companies that have been on this platform and they rely on the whole Microsoft stack. And so of course they stick with that and they have a choice of hardware, so they can buy hardware in bulk from PC makers like hp. And we have a massive investment in the ecosystem that manages it.

It's not a trivial thing to switch. So again, I don't mean to suggest if it wasn't for an airshow Windows, it would be useless. It's not like that. But the thing that Windows doesn't have, and I've been talking about this for years, is this notion of engagement from users, from actual individuals Today, all of our engagement as people as on little mobile phones and mostly phones and because that's where all the fun stuff is, and PCs are where you go for work and that's not fun. So engagement is low. We get in, we do our work, and we get out. I think this is the, I'm sorry, I happily game on my four K screen. Yes. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that's not absolute, but you are also the age you are. So we kind of fall into that bucket and part of the PC master race.

It's true. Exactly. So this is why I think AI is so cool for Microsoft and for people who care about Windows or use Windows or whatever, it's going to hopefully take us out of the terribleness of what happened, I'll call it 10 years again, of either Microsoft broadly sort of ignoring Windows or worse just acting malicious through Windows. Well, part of this is that Microsoft had been a window center company for 30 years and then it wasn't. And so Windows is just trying to figure out what am I about? And also, they used to be the focus of everything, and now they're not. I think there was also a very real and Wall Street driven desire to prove to the world that Windows wasn't that important anymore. That was new stuff that was important. And the fact, well, it was useful from a shareholder perspective to show that the company had pivoted.

That's right. Become a new cloud company. At the same time, people still need operating systems. I know. So look, all I'm saying is we will see what really happens, but over a period of time, not just in the past few months, but I've already seen improvements to Windows that I think are meaningful and are much more meaningful than the stuff that they tried to do, whatever that, so I mean, the adjacent thought here would be how is M 365 copilot on a map, right? Because if these machine learning models are what's going to make Windows distinctive, I mean the office team cares about as many platforms as they can get their hands on. They're not about Windows. Well, so actually this is part of the problem of the complexity of Microsoft 365. So there are native apps that run on Windows, there are native apps that run on the Mac.

They're different on different schedules, different teams, et cetera. There's the web version, which I think should be the focus frankly, of those apps. Those things should be made into PWAs, offline support, et cetera, et cetera. So googly, well, it is 2023. I'm just saying maybe it's time. And then they're the mobile apps. These are all different teams, different groups, different whatever. But Microsoft 365 has this overall desire to do the AI thing, and they're going to do it across us. But we've been following Microsoft 365 since it was a thing. And the one thing I can tell you is that it's very complex trying to keep up with what they're doing with this product because it's so big and it hits on so many different places. So just talk about an app like Word. Literally there are four, lemme think five major native app versions of Word in the World, five. So if they introduce a feature, whatever it is, it's like one of the big ones was that auto transcription of audio recordings, which is a fantastic feature in Word on the web, not in Windows, not on the Mac, not on mobile.

The matrix of where features get applied is very complicated. That might be a cool graph to build out just to show that there's no complete version of any product, right? So depending on who you are, you probably have access to a native desktop version of some kind. You obviously have access to the web version and you have access to one of the mobile versions depending on which phone you use. So which one has which features? And it's complicated, and I think it's going to get more complicated with copilot for Microsoft 365, because a lot of that stuff is very app specific, and then some of it is more broad. It works across the apps, and the primary interface has to be the web. I really do.

I know. Yeah. I'm really looking. I mean, so I have some strong opinions all of a sudden on am. Okay, that's where all of a sudden, all of a sudden, well, I've come around a little bit. I think it's a mistake to do something general and something general does have to be on the web. I think the real strength, I'm starting to think, and this is because I started playing with these new GPTs that OpenAI did is creating expert systems. So I created AGPT that knows everything. There's to know about liss. I gave it every book I have on Lisp, every website, and I can query it about Lisp. That's probably small enough. I'm actually downloading some Tubby models right now. It's a finite data set. It's a finite data set. It's probably small enough to run locally, which is cheaper, faster, et cetera, et cetera.

So if you wanted to know everything there is to know about your car, you get the manuals, put 'em in an expert system and query it locally. Those to me seem like a, you don't have some hallucinations. In fact, you actually tell the gtt, right? They're going to be more reliable. You say specifically the GPT do not give me any answer. That doesn't come directly from the material I've given you. Don't make stuff up. So I think that there is in some sense something that you have locally that's an expert system that might be more useful to me. I agree. I can't remember if we talked about this before we started recording or since, but this notion of small language models, which are useful obviously on local devices, but also in the cloud for finite data sets, more efficient, more cost effective, et cetera, better performance.

Still have to do some training. I mean, these gpt start with open ai, and I think that's telling you how to put a sentence together. There's some stuff that you need to do. So I'm downloading, I'm trying this. There's an open source project to run these locally, and you do have to download an LLM. Usually it's Lambda or something like that, that I think if you extrapolate out what you just said. So you're talking about a very finite topic, lisp. Yeah. It's an expert system in the old school, ai, that's what we call them in the 1970s. So that's the spectrum. The other one is just the entire internet, and it's just what it is. It's a mess. And oddly enough, it's weird because it's the internet, but in between is, and probably right in the middle of those two is this copilot from Microsoft 365 because you are working with a finite set of data.

It's a lot of data. It could be in an enterprise, but it's all internal data of different types. IT stuff comes out of databases, SharePoint slash OneDrive, your calendar outlook system and all that kind of stuff. Email meetings, meeting transcriptions and notes and who said what and who did what and who said what we're going to do. And you can work with data set. It's going to be cloud-based, right? This is not a hybrid system per se, but it's for a cloud-based data set. It's manageable, I think. And I think that's obviously when Microsoft puts out copilot for Microsoft 365 specifically to enterprises that can have 300 or more seats, they're worried about something. They're very specifically limiting it. Yes. And so they're going to learn and we are going to learn how that works. But I think it's compelling. I mean, I think it's very interesting.

I mean even the individual level, and this would be more hybrid, I would imagine, because we all have, well, our people in this world would have data in OneDrive as an individual. That could be photos as well as just documents for work or whatever. They're going to have their email hopefully going through or whatever, and Outlook. And so there's that. You are as an individual, your own form of data set aggregation across multiple sources. And to me, it's even easier, if that's the right word, to kind of encapsulate all that for an individual than it is for a business of any size. So I think this stuff is all going to happen. Microsoft's big. I mean, really, I think the thing that drove the cloud explosion that we don't really talk about a lot is the hybrid stuff, right? Because you had, well, that was just a discovery.

It's like, listen, not everything belongs. There's no one solution for anything. And you're coming from here and going to there. We're not going a hundred percent. Yeah, we never do. So that helped Microsoft a lot because when you're a cloud first company, like a Google or an Amazon, they don't have that to offer those companies. And that's part of that at nursery thing I was talking about. They stick. And now you see Arc works perfectly well on your on-prem servers too. So this same instrumentation suite that's taking care of your cloud VMs, even in AWS, but then also on-prem. So they're really flattening. That doesn't matter where you run your stuff, we can help you. Yeah. You want to talk about Clip Jam? I do. You do? Yeah, I do. So unfortunately, there's not much to talk about from a features perspective. Well, there's a little bit.

Microsoft had, again, probably back at Build in May announced that Clip Champ would be coming to Microsoft 365 commercial customers. It is available today along with Microsoft Designer, which is their sort of, what's the low end Adobe, the free Adobe product, like a Canva or a, what do you call it, Adobe Express kind of a solution. But again, they integrated into the whole Microsoft ecosystem. It's pretty good. It's fine. But the reason this is exciting is because all these Microsoft 365 commercial users have associated OneDrive slash SharePoint storage as an individual. Anyone can use Clip Chimp. I should talk about that a little bit more. It's free and it's great. But one of the things you don't get for free is cloud storage. And they don't even integrate with OneDrive, which you think they would. So they want you to buy that subscription for now.

I hope that changes, but if you think about it, whatever assets you might have to put into a video should be stored in the cloud. It should be available on any computer. It's a web app. I should be able to go to NE PC and open up the project and have it just work. But because you have to pay for that basically now it's hard to Im, I found even if I have the exact same files in the same locations in the file system, it just doesn't work. This something. It just doesn't. You have to reapply each asset. But in a business situation in the enterprise, you will be using their storage for that stuff. Of course you will. There'll be collections of assets for you to use with corporate logos and whatever, and that will always be available. So now they integrate on the backend with that stuff.

And that's super smart. Again, I really need this to come to individuals. We all have OneDrive if we're using Clip Tramp, but in the commercial space now that does work. So that's great. Awesome. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you got the clip champion. I really felt the urge, the need. Let's take a little pause that refreshes and we'll return Windows Weekly coming to you from Microsoft Ignite in Seattle proper or Redmond, Seattle proper. Seattle proper convention center. Nice. Paul Throt, Richard Campbell and Moore, in a moment show today, brought to you by HID global, reduced risk operating costs and complexity by outsourcing public key infrastructure operations to HID Global's Cloud-based PKI as a service model. It provides automated management of the complete certificate lifecycle and encryption. HID Global's, your one-stop shop for simplifying private and public PKI management with one predictable price on one, easy to use platform, and HID Global's.

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It's damp. Yeah, it's a damp. It was 75 degrees every day in Mexico. And here it's 35. You're spoiled. But Richard, this is like Madeira Park, right? You probably could walk here. Yeah. Yeah. Mad park's pretty much the same. You should do a little camera pan. Oh yeah. Let's see it Play with the GIZ bubble. You have the means you have APTZ. Oh, look. Yep. Yep. I think that's about AS And then jittery. Yeah, that's sort of the limits of how far it can go. So that's our door out. I'm surprised they're the other booth. There's no fans with their nose pressed to the glass or anything. No one knows we're here. Yeah, no, it's all very secret. It's hard to explain. But this is a new convention center that's built basically the next block from the old one is a connect bridge, but we're not using the old place.

It's five stories tall, I think including a basement or whatever. We are in the furthest the EST floor in the furthest quarter of it they put, which I mean, we're making a podcast space is a good thing to do. The food is between Oh, that's good. That's all the podcasters really care about. Where's the food? Had I known? I mean, we didn't know. We thought you might even be doing this from a hotel. Had I known we would've made a big banner that says with arrows saying right here, Paul and Richard come here. Right here. Well, it worked out. Hey, there's one last Ignite thing. That was the top of the conversation, actually. That's right. That's right. And that was the building their own hardware, the Cobols Maya, and then the May Rack, which I Rick cluster dropped in on us, said, by the way, they had to spill the special stage for that.

So they had a double wide 42 or 50 U rack unit that they call Maya. And on one side is all pur compute units, gpu, and then on the other half is all cooling. And so they're using copper plate liquid cooling. That's just gigantic. It looks like the radiator from an F two 50 or three 50 truck, or maybe like a hot tub. It might be, when you think about a heat, what do you call those? Like a thing on ACPU, like a heat dispensing plate. It was like that, but it was the size of a Volkswagen, and apparently it would've gone straight through the normal stage. They used to put it down on, if you watch the keynote, the guy has to walk over like 20 feet to get to it. It's because it couldn't go on the stage in four location. But it speaks to, and it only makes sense, why are they buying commercial hardware?

I'm sure they're buying it at a discount, but you now are starting to see specific optimizations. And Satya was big on GPU workloads. Well, we saw Google do this. We saw how Facebook do this. Facebook actually has an open standard for servers, and I think a lot of people are using way to go. Yeah. So when now Microsoft has its first ever cloud-based Azure data center, CPU in the form. I think that one's Maya, right? Cobalt. Cobalt, which is an arm chip set, right? Very interesting. 64 bit, 128 chorus. That chip is the size of a dinner plate. It's unbelievably big. It just whole, it's good. If you can palm a basketball, you might be able to hold it in one hand. Wow. How many transistors? So this is a comparison I have now my new MacBook Pro with the N three max has 9 billion transistors.

How many in this? I know we got, if it's this big, that's a good question. And it's got an F one 50 heat sink. I mean that's, it's five nanometer. It's five nanometer. Wow. Wow. So who makes this chip? Not Microsoft, obviously they did not really say it may be produced from TSMC, but the dichotomy was hilarious that at the same time they're talking about building your own chip. The very next conversation is with the CEO EO of Nvidia. I know. Yeah. So, right. We'll try to tone down the language here, but it was, yeah, so they introduced their AI accelerated chip. I don't know why they'd call it an NP, but whatever, which is I guess was Maya and then the CPO. And then they brought out, they did ad billion transistors, 5 billion transitions, 105 billion. The largest chips in the five nanometer process on the cobalt.

GP is CPU. Yeah. So in the sense that Apple is always trying to replace their partners with in-house products and services, Microsoft appears to be trying to do that as well, right? So I don't remember. I think it was the CPU. It was the CP, the GPU, but or the accelerator 40% more efficient than whatever. It must've been the CPU because they were basing it on the arm whatever arm chips that they had been using previously, which is huge because this is the goal to reduce the cost, prove the efficiency, and they're on that path. But then they brought up the CEO of Nvidia for an extended period of time, by the way, and you just got the feeling like they're going to replace unless NVIDIA shows up with a miracle. Well, and that's the real question is what's NVIDIA's next trick, right? Yeah. We were talking earlier, Nvidia tripped their way into their current, they're one of the biggest chipmaker in the world right now, I guess, by market cap.

But they're so successful because they were making GPUs for gaming PCs, which is a small business, relatively speaking, then crypto. But then this stuff happened. And for some, I mean, just lucky roll of the dice, these workloads work really well on their current generation hardware. If they don't keep that going. Nvidia, I think we've talked about this a little bit before. I mean, they won't disappear. But imagine what Google would look like if they didn't have search slash advertising. That's what Nvidia is going to look like. If Microsoft and the rest of the world can figure out how to make more efficient cost-effective C or AI accelerators, I guess we'll call 'em. Yeah. And the other side of this of course, is they have hundreds of data centers, racks and racks and racking machines. You're not going to replace that quickly. So I mean, we're still showing the CPU in your hand because that's how few there are.

They're one data center is going to start going cobalt. They're going to start evaluating the workloads and look at the lifespan. Can I run it full bore for five years? Does it work the way it's supposed to? That's good point. And maybe there are certain workloads that do work better with that, or with Nvidia, with a MD or whatever it might be. By the time you're really confident that it can take on a major chunk of the workload, you want to start replacing things. Nvidia should have something different. I hope so. Yeah, without doubt. Do you want to talk about greenwashing?

I have nothing to point to, but every conversation about, and this is zero carbon and this just recovered energy and so forth, I just feel like I always want to read the fine. Every time I do. I'm disappointed. Yeah. I mean, they turn this thing on and the city's lights dimm. It's not like there's some magical reverse switch where they're pumping electricity back onto the grid. No, this stuff, it's expensive and it uses a lot of energy that our world runs on compute. So hopefully they're building out low emission energy for it. These data centers are getting big. You're going to start wanting your own power plants. And for better or worse, I do a whole set of shows on this over on Donna Rocks with the geek. It's like small modular nuclear, little 60 megawatts, A pair of those that go a long way to run a data center.

Yeah, there's some issues there. Yeah. You talk about what business are you in? Do you run your own power plant? I don't know the answer to that. It's really something I got to do a shift to dotnet comp yesterday. Yes, I watched. You saw me. I liked it. I was doing the mc gig, which is a pretty fun gig. Yeah, I got to introduce all of the guys. That's neat. Yeah, it was a good do net ComNet eight is an important version of Do Net. Yeah. So why, I mean, what's the big deal? There's a bunch of stuff that came together on that. It is lts. Yeah. It is a long-term support one, but that's becoming less meaningful. Some companies are big on the, okay, it's a three-year version, two version. Quick diversion here. Obviously the old net, the T net, we know from back in the day the standard 4.4 0.8. Yeah, the T net framework or whatever. So this is a thing that still ships on Windows. It depends on it it, right. It's tied to the Windows support lifecycle. It's tied to Windows. Right. Also, it's a 10 year because of when it was invented or implemented.

Yeah. So when 4.8 actually is a fairly recent release. So it's going to be in Windows forever. But then there's this other, remember the VB runtime is still in Windows. Yes. And it really hasn't had anything happen to it since 99. Yep. It is forever. Yes, sure is. So the new T net, maybe not obviously, but it is cross-platform and open source and annual release case. And what was it between the three point x and five version? It became net. Well, when they went to five, they said it's net. This is the new T net. So this is something that's revved annually. It's on a predictable life, very predictable development. November 13th, the life cycle is 18 months or three years, depending on every, it's really two versions or five versions. There you go. So how do you explain it? What's your elevator pitch for DyNet?

What is this? Well, I mean why this LTS? Like that whole effect is really the point is to stay up. It is to use the new versions. And one of the big things, it's always been performance improvements. That you can take your existing T net seven app it and recompile it with T net eight. And only does it just work. It's faster. And if nothing else changed, that's still a huge benefit. And then the question is, are you using the new features like new language constructs in C 12, A bunch of the new capabilities in, it's also also cool things you can compile to native code if you want to. And you don't need to have the support libraries or anything. No. Once upon a time, we did the whole DLL approach to save memory. Remember, we needed to save memory and disc space if we don't need to do those things.

Now it's more about reliability. Pilot is a complete with everything is a standalone. E. E, yep. Yeah. And it'll run and you just don't care about versions of anything at that place, right? Yeah. So T net in general, but Neth specifically encompasses so many different software platforms. I guess we'll call 'em, Maui, all the different feature stacks. Blazer, the new version of Blazer. And so one of the things that made eight important was this kind of the third version of Maui, and it's kind of the third version of Blazer at the same time. And Microsoft has a knack for the third versions. And it's real. I mean, this is real. This is not a one-off. We still talk about it. This actually still happens. It still happens. And it makes sense. You get the first bits out there and what you didn't get done shows up in the second version.

And then you've gotten enough feedback, enough utilization that the third one is the one where you really have customers feedback into. There's also a neat thing. Part of the show I watched with you were MCing was with David and Matt talking about mo. And this notion that because of the new way that software is developed, you don't really go in with some goals for this version, but you can actually accomplish more. It's created in the open. They're taking PRRM, push request, pull requests from users on the outside of Microsoft, and a bunch of 'em get integrated into the product. And so when version eight actually comes out, they actually delivered more than they promised because of the community itself, which is really neat. Which, fascinating. That's the place that we're at now. I mean, it was a good time was had by all. It's frustrating that they're the same week.

So to be clear, so we have Microsoft Ignite here in Seattle. Yes. And then T Net Comp has been a virtual event, I guess always been a virtual event. And how many years has that been going since core? So 7 20 17, 20 16. Yep. But it's always been a virtual event out of the studios, what used to be called the Channel lines Studio. I, before the M Ms. NBC was, it was called Derel Studios. Okay. I still have a picture of, I don't know what to call it. It's not an office, but it looked like the control area of the Death Star and Star Wars, and it looked like this is where a big brother controls the world from. The joke is in Star Wars, that control panel that would laser, that is an audio control panel. Oh no, really? I didn't know that. Oh, that's his circle.

Of course. Yeah. They repurposed. Of course. They didn't make anything. It just took an actual one. It went That looks right. Square blinky lights. Let's go. That's very funny. Yeah. That was back when M-S-N-B-C was the ongoing concern. This is this space back. And they still had the double lock set because it was a sort of business with a business kind of thing. And it's still there. It's a nuisance to go to those studio. Is it in New Jersey? Where is it? No, it's in the campus in red. It's building 25 in red. Oh, okay. Side 20. I have a lot of memories from that building. Anyway, so yeah. So you went over and MCed part of that show? Yeah, I got a four hour shift and they do, what was it, three days? It's live, mostly live. The first day is sort of your traditional single track keynotes, presentations for the product teams, that sort of thing.

And then there's an online party at the end of the day, and then the second day they go to a 24 hour around the world. So there are presenters literally all around the world to get involved so that it becomes this huge community event over the last two days. And Ignite, if you don't get to watch any of that live, it's no problem. It's all going to be there. Everything's recorded up on YouTube or whatever. But there are folks who stay up all night to watch this stuff, to just see their friends too. All of these MVPs and things everybody submits. To be a part of T Net con and to show off what you've done with the product, it has kind of a home spun quality too. Absolutely. That I really like. It is the pole are opposite in some ways of this big orchestrated events with our hanging light things.

Exactly. It is much more homegrown. Yeah, I like that. It was, you mean? Yeah. That's the way to go. I love that. Yeah. Just kind of folksy down home, sitting around the Cracker Barrel, chewing the fat. Not a big city developer, but if I was, it's nice fun. It sounds like more fun, frankly. Yeah, it is. It really is. It's more personable. Sure. So yeah, Scott Hanselman was on there. David do love Scott. Love him and Scott Hunter and Paul Yuck wrapped up. Yeah, I saw the perform and there Scott Hunter came down from his cloud of prominence. Well, the other big piece was David Fowler, who's now a distinguished engineer, and I always refer to him now as distinguished engineer, David Fowler. Nice. Who was leading the Aspire project. So that was one of the, so we should talk about that. Aspire. Aspire, not inspire. Not inspire. Aspire.

Aspire. And actually if you think about, it's a pretty darn good name in the sense of it's making real cloud software like this is about a tool suite and a working environment for software that's going to be natively cloud. So meaning it's going to be elastic and scale, it's it's agnostic. It should be able to run anywhere platform agnostic. And so really David's been leading the initiative to put all the pieces together. All of this was out there, you could do it. It was just hard. And so now to say, Hey, let's a little piece, well, you want to use a tool and have just wind up all the pieces you need and plug in the old line is I want to follow the pit of success. And so the making mistakes is harder in the tool. It tends to lead you to the right things to do for providing that scalability, manageability, instrumentation and diagnostics.

I meant to look this up and I just ran out of time. We've been kind of busy today, but sometime this past summer Microsoft kind of came out with sort of a formal proposal for this thing. And the idea was that we're going to kind of formalize what a web app means, like a cloud, I should say a cloud app, excuse me. And at the basis there'll be some number of cloud services or cloud infrastructure. It's agnostic. You could plug in, you could be on S three or AWS or whatever. You could have whatever data sources you want, but there's going to be this kind of a standard and aspire, as I understand, it's almost like the T net eight implementation of the CNCF, the cloud native standards for how you want to build it. And it was kind of a surprise too, right? They didn't telegraph this.

Yeah, they held onto it pretty well and it seems to be well received, but it's an aspirational goal to software that runs well in the cloud. That's the name. That's the way I think of it. Yeah, I think so too. And I'm delighted to see a new project like that. And it's exactly that problem. It's like, hey, just give me a starting point so that when I start building my app, the way I know how to build it, I'm not crippling myself for doing more in the cloud. The part of T net that I care about the most now I guess is T Net Maui. And part of it involves that seven stages of grief over the death of the native Windows app that this isn't a thing anymore, but it exists. Wind forms is still there. It is. Does that exists? Is it in a coma somewhere?

I mean I know technically it's active and hundreds of thousands of apps still using it and still be fine. If you're looking for a modern framework, a modern environment, whatever it might be to build a native Windows app, Maui is sort of it. It's kind of interesting because it's when UI three on Windows, but it's also cross platform. And the stages of grief thing is based on the fact that back in the day there would be these formal standards for title bars and window buttons and how controls were MDI standard. Yeah, and it's a little looser today, but there's also this notion of what I'll call, for lack of a better term, modern app and modern app design templates or whatever, design designs, whatever. And again, a little looser, but these are the apps. If you open up, say Notepad is an interesting example because it's a modern UI on top of old code, but if you go into settings, the settings is not a dialogue, it's part of the app.

You do your thing, you get out, it's just a design pattern, it's just a different style. And Maui supports all that stuff. So because it's platform like Flutter might be or web app can be, you're not going to write a Windows app really, right? You're writing an app that runs on iOS and Android and Android and Mac through Catalyst and Windows. And what they've been doing over the past three versions is putting more and more desktop specific functionality in there, which actually, because they started with Zain Forms because they had iOS and Android sort of nailed, although there was plenty to fix in Zain form still for sure. But it's a simpler project. It's getting better, but landing it on desktop, well, same problem with Flutter has. Yeah. Oh yeah, exactly. But the thing that's interesting is it really benefits the whole world because you have an iOS, we'll call it, it could run on the iPad and you want it to look different.

You want it to fill the screen and look, different people could have a touch pad and a keyboard. You want have keyboard shortcuts. You want to have most pointer interaction. And so you could build this app that scales between these different devices and different screen sizes and all that stuff. And it's gotten better. And so it's never going to be that thing I sort of always wanted from the beginning, which was just Windows. That doesn't make sense. And also just Windows sort of classic Windows. These are more, like I said, more modern design patterns. I'm not even sure what they're call, I'm sorry. And a lot of old school people like us, we sort see this thing and we're like, oh, come on, really? But it's like actually this is the world and it's the one I always keep my eye on. It's very interested in.

And I like watching it mature and it's like I said, it's a great time. Everybody's very excited. The new version has done well and it'll be quick to good to see the adoption, but this is not a Deb show. No, it's not. There must be some overlap. I mean they wouldn't put it right next to Ignite. What do you think the overlap is between the T Net conf and the Ignite? So honestly, it should have been at a different time or integrated into Ignite, and Richard probably knows more about the politics side of that, but I'm not sure how much we can say, but I mean a lot happened all at once. It's hard to find a location for Ignite and t net com isn't flexible because they shipped to a date. So they really weren't, didn't have much overlap. There is some dev content here at the show.

Not a lot, but some. It's mostly, yeah, we didn't cloud, right? Yeah, we didn't talk about a lot. Is there some low-code stuff going on in the Microsoft 365 space with regards to making your own co-pilots and integrating data sources kind of pulling 'em in and you're basically doing a power app, kind of a instruction of what is basically a copilot? Well, we talked about Windows ai actually did we might've skipped over this, the Windows. Did we talk about the Windows dev stuff? I don't think we did. I think we did not. So let's just do that really quickly because this we're kind the dev part of it. So Microsoft announced something called Windows AI Studio, which is built on, we can get this right Azure AI studio. We need more studios. We need more studios. Yeah, copilot was the number one term we used today, but Studio I think was number two.

It's up there. This is not a new product, it's not a new app. It's what Microsoft would probably call it experience that runs inside a visual studio code like so much does these days and it is a way for, so Azure AI Studio is a way to work with AI models in the cloud. Windows AI studio today is a way to work with AI models locally on device, but the long-term vision for it, which they've been very explicit about, is to combine these two things and do hybrid when necessary. So in other words, you can create an AI-based app with this thing. By the way, they probably in Maui, that would be one way if you were going to run it locally on devices and in the future you'll be able to integrate with cloud hosted AI use what makes sense based on what it is you're doing.

So kind of a hybrid model. Yeah, it's early days with that, right? There was an update to Dev home. Dev home is something that shipped technically in Windows 11, version 23 H two. It's in preview, right? So I think the first version there is probably 0.6. They're up to 0.7 now. And that adds, I actually forget what that adds so much information here. A little bit of overload. It's a minor update to would've mic, actually, I apologize, I can't remember. But they also added some functionality to WSL for, sorry, the Windows subsystem from Linux for enterprises because one of the issues there is that this thing kind of sits there unencumbered by all of your organizational policies and whatnot. And so now they can secure that at an organizational level and manage it with into, so now they have basically answered the enterprise concern with this product by making it fully manageable and controllable with policy. So this is now something WSL is a way for developers mostly to do both Linux and Windows-based development on the same box.

So there's some interesting stuff there. And by the way, that also speaks to the importance of Windows, again, because they want Windows to be the best place for developers. And it's a little goofy, honestly. They bake developer features into 23 H two, whether you want 'em or not. So my wife, my mother will all get dev home on their computers and that's interesting. Everybody's a coder. The hour of code's coming up, she could sit down, do an hour. Actually Leo, I don't know, maybe you're not paying attention, but AI is killing coding, so I don't know. Why would you need nuts? Oh my god. Remember all those guys in Appalachia that were going to get out of coal and learn how to code? Yeah, too late. Blew it.

I don't know if that's good, but there might be some truth to that. Look, there's so many stock phrases we have now about ai and one of them is that there should be a human sitting between whatever ai. I agree. And there's no place that's more true. AI is your pal. It's not the leader, it's the follower, your copilot, and sometimes, oh, what a good name. Sometimes the copilot wants you to crash the plane. You got to be careful. Can't always trust the copilot. Not always. That's not there sometimes. Yeah. Alright. I think it's going to be more true of, so I got a big update 23 H two, like last night. Okay, hold on. Hold that thought. We're going to talk about winders. The other thing Microsoft does, you might've heard of it. Yep, yep. Still there. You mentioned this earlier, Richard, but it's really true, was the Windows era for a while I think.

Wasn't it the office era, they made more money in office than they did in Windows. I kind combine those together. Windows. Yeah, it's all the same Windows and Office was the foundation of that in there. Now it's Azure. They expanded from small work groups. Azure for sure is the engine. I think it still is, but I would say that yes. But to me, the era has shifted from cloud, although obviously a huge component of it to ai, right? Yeah. I think we're witnessing right now. Well, that's what I was thinking. I was wondering a very specific CI think so. That's how I would the next big thing or maybe, but it is since it's so tied to Azure. But that's why I'm thinking these expert systems running locally maybe. Yeah, but you know what? Very interesting. So I wrote about, I actually just wrote about this.

It's very interesting. You look very high level. You can make the case, not kind of, I have made the case that every era at Microsoft is kind of based on the foundation of what came before sense. Windows dominance of the nineties was the MS dominance of the Amy, the office built on top of that of course. And then the cloud is based on that transition that this business case study we'll be talking about for ages, they made that transition to the cloud and RO to more success than ever. So everything is kind of based on the past. So this is no different. AI relies on and couldn't happen without what had happened before with cloud. Yeah, I like it. Alright, well we're going to go back to the old timer windows in just a second. Yeah, we sure. But first a word from our sponsor is Windows Weekly continues.

I always like to talk about our Thinked Canary. It's a little honeypot that's easy to configure. You could do in three minutes of setup. It can look like anything from a Windows server with all the services on to some select services on a Linux server to a network attached storage, even to a SCADA device. It could be a bunch of different kinds of things. Now the point of it is it's a perfect impersonation. That's why it's a honeypot. We have a fake sonology NAS right here in my Thinked canary and it's got the MAC address, it's got the DSM login. It looks exactly like the real deal. The difference is the minute a bad guy attacks, it just even tries to log into it thinking it's real. I'm going to get an alert. And that's what's cool about the THX Canary, just the alerts that matter.

If you listen to Security Now or any of our shows, the breaches are a real problem. Target Belgium com, the NSA all compromised in months or four months rather, sometimes even years. I think the Marriott one, they were there for three years before anybody found out. These companies spent millions of dollars in security products and services, but when it mattered, they had no idea there were bad guys in the network. Canary makes not only a hardware device, there's a VM version, there's a cloud version, and they also do canary tokens. Any device can, in fact, we've created a bunch of canary tokens with our fixed canary. These are little trip wires, unlimited number you can drop in hundreds of places around your network. There's no wrong way to deploy a canary. By the way. The canary personalities are designed so that a default configuration will it catch attackers, but you can also customize.

It's actually kind of fun and easy thanks to the company. Behind Canary has been in the security game for two decades. They've trained countless companies, militaries and governments, how to break into networks, and they use that experience kind of in reverse to build the canary. It keeps attackers out. Very cool. These canary tokens can look like PDFs or Word files. You can sprinkle 'em around. We've got an XLS file, a spreadsheet file that says payroll information. An attacker cannot resist trying to open that, but the minute they do, we will know. Simplicity is a priority with these canaries. They do all the work necessary in the background to make them look convincing. And it's so easy. It's as easy as plugging in a kitchen appliance. You can get 'em in a variety of ways to even have EC two incidences or GCP machines. Canaries are designed to be deployed on internal networks where false positives are typically removed by whitelisting trusted systems that perform those scans.

So you don't see, oh yeah, Johnny's doing an Nmap scan as he does every three months. No, no. You don't see that because you whitelist that. You just see the alerts that matter once deployed. Our canary just sits there quietly. But if it ever puts out a peep, I know it's the real deal. Updates to the management console, individual canaries are automatically pushed those out over the air. They're also, of course, completely warrantied for the life of your canary so you can get them replaced or updated. Canaries are deployed and loved on all seven continents. In fact, you can see that if you go to their website,, CAY tool slash love, all the love, all the loving tweets, all the emails from customers. And if you go to Canary tools slash twit, you can get your Canaries. Now, the number of canaries you're going to want depends on the size of your network.

A big bank might have hundreds, a casino operation, thousands. We only have a handful for that handful. Let's just give you as an example, five canaries, 7,500 bucks a year. You get your own hosted console, you get upgrades, you get support, you get maintenance. You can even get the price lowered if you use the offer code twit. And how'd you hear about us box? That's 10% off and not just for that first year of canaries. That's forever. As long as you're using them. Here's the best part. If you're at all concerned or in doubting, you can get these canaries for two months and get a money back guarantee. You have a two month money back guarantee, full refund every penny back. So 60 days to try before you're committed. And I have to tell you, in the many, many years we've been doing ads for this, no one has ever asked for that refund.

That's what they tell us. No, because people, when they get the canary, they realize this is important. I need this. It's got to be part of your layered security strategy. The thanks Canary 10% off when you use offer code TWIT in the how did you hear about us Box, the website. Canary Tools slash twit. You owe it to yourself to get this thing Canary Do tools slash twit. And we thank thanks. We love these guys and his team are fantastic for supporting our shows for so long. Now let's go back to Seattle. What do you say? And Paul and Rich Paul Thaat, Richard Campbell are in Seattle for Microsoft Ignite. Bit more of a journey for Paul than it was for Richard. I just drove down, but now I'm off Coast Ferry too. I somehow managed to turn a 2,500 mile trip into a 14 hour slog.

Oh God. That's flying. Well, so where I live now, there's a lot of advantages to it, but one of the problems is it takes us 90 minutes to get to a real airport like Newark. That's not good. Philadelphia, Newark. Yeah. Right. For this, you flew out of Mackenzie Airport. I saw the pictures. I flew out the Allentown AB Allentown, Bethlehem Emmaus is what? That's, sorry. ABE. It's ABE. It's the Lehigh Valley International Airport. There's one flight in Canada and it's smaller than my driveway, but it's a fun little airport. And I said, if I'm going to do this, I'm flying out at Abe. I could get there in 20 minutes. Right. Beautiful. Right. And parking's cheap, I'm sure. Oh, didn't my wife. It's close. But that meant I had to fly to Chicago, which meant I had a five hour layover and I really like airport lodges.

It was fine, but it was a long day. I learned that lesson. In fact, in my last flight I flew, instead of flying to Boston and renting a car and driving to Providence, I flew to Baltimore and then to Providence. And that was a big mistake. Yeah, I like TF three. I've flew into tf. Well, it's like TPE. It's a cute little regional. It's a lot bigger than ABE. Oh yeah. But it's not a big airport. No. And the layover in Baltimore was just like yours, Paul. It was hours. It's only takes an hour to get to Providence from Boston. You can get in a lounge. It's okay. Yeah, you were just going to plow with meal anyway because the food and lounges is so good. Actually it is good compared to the Well, you got good lounges. Yeah, yeah. Fun. Alright. Richard really wants to talk about Windows, so I guess we better humor him.

Yeah, I just remembered this. I just saw this update coming. I'm like, I'm on the road. Am I accepting this? Alright, I'm accepting this. How did it actually was pretty quick, right? It was pretty quick. Yeah. So I don't want to beat this to death. I've ranted and ranted about this 23 H two, not 23 H two thing over multiple shows because by my count, I think this is the fourth time they released 23 H two, there was the initial preview release of what they were calling at the time of the fall update that came in late September. And the patch Tuesday happened in October and they released a second preview version of the same exact thing. Except this time all the features were turned on. They released 23 H two. But by the way, still a preview. Didn't advertise that on October 31st. And now Patch Tuesday has come around again.

Guess what? They finally released it. So what's interesting to me is when I was talking about I got to update the book, I want to have something out the today, this is available. I was timing it for exactly right now. This was my target date. And so when they announced the October 31 thing, I was like, what are you doing with me? That's a two, almost two weeks, it least two weeks. And honestly it worked out okay. But that release, as I said, whatever that week was probably early November. November, the November 2nd show, probably. So two weeks ago, I guess, whatever it was actually a preview release it. This is so the language is so screwed up. So actually yesterday, which was Patch Tuesday, November was in fact the official non preview general available, but it seemed like a patch. Yes. Because that already put on 23 H two. So because the features, you've already gotten 'em all right. Alright. They weren't always enabled, depending on which updates you've installed. So this is that enablement package. This is a, it just flips the switch. So it's a really quick update. Yeah. Why did they do this?

Were they having problems? Yeah, I don't want to pretend. I just wonder if they were just having problems with features. So they were keep some of 'em off, getting more of 'em out. There's the other behavior. It was a telemetry thing. Yeah. It's not worth me even trying to use my brain to figure out exactly what happened. But the initial release was CFRs, that first preview release in late September. So random, the October one was supposed, it was a preview release, so you still had to go get it, but if you did, supposedly you got everything right. Same thing with the October 31st release. It was a preview release, but it would enable everything right away. And now it's a non preview release and it will enable everything right away. So if you are using Windows 11, my apologies, but you, it's fine as we speak, or maybe by next week everyone should have, right?

I think this is the release. It's like, it's crazy how long it took. There we're awesome. Okay, there you go. 150 new features. We've been beating it to death for two months. Slowly, slowly, slowly. Yeah. Alright, so that's out. I also ranted and rant and ranted about OneDrive over the past two months because I had so many problems. I am still working on my photo digital decluttering projects and that was the folder. I thought you were finished. Yeah, that's cute. I thought so too. I was so naive finding more, remember when I was young two months ago? So OneDrive continues to, not OneDrive, I'm sorry. File Explorer continues to have huge performance problems and reliability problems, especially when you're working with several hundred or several thousand files like I am locally, locally on disc, by the way, not across the network, it's just sitting around the disc.

It's still, it's a horrific problem. But tied to this, of course, is the OneDrive stuff. So one thing people are, like I talked about last week, I think are waking up to is, oh my God, OneDrive's really being aggressive now about making you use it and it's tied to this copilot thing. They want to have that data back in. They want to make sure everyone's doing this right. One of the little bits of bad behavior that I mentioned in the book, and I popularized a dead podcast I mentioned on Windows Weekly two, three weeks ago, was all the crazy stuff it does when you try to leave OneDrive, it really wants you back. It's like when you try to switch from Edge, it's like, oh, come on, come on, come on. You know? You love us. Love us. Yeah, exactly. So they were doing that with OneDrive and they would literally, they wouldn't let you close it.

I mean, you could probably force quit it, but unless you filled a little survey that explained why you were what. Yes. So that one apparently is what put people over the edge enough that Microsoft actually rolled that one back there. They've taken yeah, to put, but I'm telling you of the problems of OneDrive in 23 H two. I would put that pretty far down on the list. There's some really bad behaviors still occurring there, but they did. This is Microsoft responding to feedback. So they did do that. That's interesting. Yeah. All right. Geez. So Patch Tuesday again was yesterday, right? Today it was the 20th anniversary this month of past Tuesday. So John Cable is a guy from Microsoft who has the unfortunate role or job of explaining updates because, and I say it that way because honestly they're not explainable, right? It's a world of insanity.

But he has to come as the voice of reason and explain why it's all makes sense. And this is what we're doing. And his blog posts are always very interesting. I always pay a lot attention to them. So I was interested to see that he wrote a blog post about the 20th anniversary of Patch Tuesday. I thought to myself, here we go. And I have never read anything so horrible in my life. How is it horrible? So think about some of the milestones you could talk about with Patch Tuesday, for example, the day it actually started, the actual date, not in the blog post or specific releases of things that occurred on specific dates. For example, in this blog post, we learned that Windows Server updates services, WSS and the Microsoft Baseline Security analyzer both appeared sometime between 2008 and 2012. I don't know for sure.

It was in there, windows 10, for example, that arrived between 2013 and 2017. That's true. It's true. Yes. It was a specific date in July in 2015, but you went from Microsoft, you couldn't get the exact date. So it isn't 20 years, is it? Know it 18 years. Probably. 18, exactly. It's 20 years-ish. I mean, I don't know why. The thing that bugs me about this, other than the obvious, and I know this is a semi OCD thing or whatever, but the job here is to be precise. And I don't mean in the telling of the history. I just mean you're doing Windows updates. You should know exactly what's happening, people's operating systems. So now you're describing a history where it literally is specific dates and there is not. You can read the post yourself. There's not a specific date and obvious specific dates. It's nowhere. It's so weird. I just found that to be, did they miss an edit pass? I don't know. Yeah, vaguely. Vaguely disrespectful. I don't, oh, some turn wrote it probably. Yeah, that could be. But still again, when you said intern, did you mean chat? GPT? Maybe Chat. GBT. Did you? Hello, Dave, did you know it's sort of the 20th anniversary? It is sort of the 20th anniversary. How should we talk about that?

Vaguely. You know what specific, we don't have specific dates we don't have. That's the problem with ai. It's not very good at specifics. Can't do math, just don't have specific dates. Anyway, okay, so it's 20 years of past Tuesday. It's been a wild ride. Congratulations. And by the way, if I'm not mistaken, patch Tuesday came out of the Trustworthy Computing initiative. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. And just that we're Patch as quickly, we will get it out to you as fast as possible and didn't really facilitate it by the internet. Yes, this is all the transformation. We used to wait for service packs and yeah, it came on ADVD update and all that kind of stuff. Yep. Yeah. So Patch Tuesday, right? So I guess next I'm going to expect unexpected new features as soon as Next Patch Tuesday, right? This is based on last year's. Yeah. So what's next? Is it going to be 24 H one now? 24 please. No, it is November moment five. They'll call it moment six. Just to screw with this.

No moment nine, the lost among the many announcements. The new Outlook is in Windows now. It's part of 23 H two. It's some point next year. It's actually just going to replace mail-in calendar in the oss. They're not going to install it. I think it's for that. I don't know why I had so many apps. Yeah, I mean, so they used to want to charge for Outlook. I mean, mail-in calendar and people, which kind of exist kind of doesn't. And Windows does 11 date back to Windows eight, right? This was the Windows Live team literally at the time developing their HTML based apps that would run in Windows. They've always been really out of, they've always been feature light. They work okay for what? But I think the new OneDrive in that space is actually, sorry, the new outlook in that space is actually quite good.

In the commercial space. We have a slightly different problem. So they are sometime, I bet it won't happen next year, but sometime will be, allegedly this is going to hit a wall, just like replacing Windows 10 is going to hit a wall. Try to replace the classic Outlook desktop app with the new Outlook. I know. Yeah. I mean, I do it. If I was, it was good. I'm frustrated. I'm in a really classic Outlook user have been for a long time. And every time I go over there, it does work. You know what? I can't do everything. Work on my email. Yeah, exactly. And I wonder how much of just being an old guy with an known workflow, and it's like I'm stuck in my workflow. There's a lot of Outlook, add-ons that people rely on that just don't work in this new version as a new model.

Then again, those add-ons cause problems and Outlook too. Yep. No, I appreciate them wanting to modernize it. I think it will eventually get to where teams got to with the new teams. But if you're waiting for that to happen or worried about how this is going to happen, Microsoft has published a roadmap for how they intend and when they intend to add features. And some of it is very interesting. There's little features like auto capitalization, seriously, but copilot integration, dictation, EML, file support pop three, account support, PST. How do you release a product called Outlook that doesn't support psst, but it's on the roadmap. It's on the roadmap. So this roadmap just a real, by the way, this doesn't work. This is a sideways way of admitting what it doesn't work. Exactly. And I think we talked about this, but copilot was rushed into Windows, the new teams. Well actually that one happened to be right in the right place. So that one kind of came along. And the new outlook too kind of forced in there because again, these things are all tied together in the backend and are part of this AI push that Microsoft is making. So there are a lot of versions unfortunately at Microsoft these days of products that were put out. It's available and the real version's coming out in three months or six months because, because updates on the internet. Yep. Yeah. It's a new way.

What else? Microsoft store. I actually, I've written a book about Windows. I don't know if I've ever talked about this. This feature was already in, so I'm kind of confused to hear. It's new. But the Microsoft store now lets you decide where to install games. I assume what that means is the literal place you install, not the drive. So there's probably a little more granular, because previously in Windows and Windows 11 N antenna, I should say, you could, if you had two discs or two partitions, you could say, I wanted them the D drive, not the C drive. You could already do that. So this must be a way to get it out of that hidden folder structure if you want to be a place that you know and understand. Because actually, if you do run games out of the store, Xbox games, whatever, and you run one of those tools that look at your wind, air stat or whatever, and you'll have this giant orange box over there and you're like, what the hell is that?

It's like, oh, I installed Halo. And it's like you can't see it in the file system unless you know where to look because it's all hidden. But it's like the biggest thing, it's bigger than Windows. It's bigger. So I'm sure it's tied to that kind of thing. So that's fine. And then because we can't have too many co-pilots, we need to keep a name list. How many different co-pilots get surfaced. We should have whiskey right here, and every time we say copilot, we should be taking a shot and then we dispute. That's what I've doing the all time. Yeah, it just be a state. It would just be us asleep Ling on his shoulder or something. So Microsoft announced this, we probably at the old again, but now was generally available time for the holidays copilot in Microsoft shopping. This sounds silly, but honestly it works pretty well. I was testing it. You can run it in any browser, but if you run it in edge, you also take advantage. It's kind of a double whammy thing because edge, edge shopping features built does price matching and looks for the best deal, et cetera, et cetera. So you could kind of combine the two if you wanted to an edge.

But what you basically do is you type in a prompt, you say something like, I'm looking for cheapest iPad I can get, or whatever. And it's a conversation like any other kind of chat based AI service. And it will ask you follow-up questions. It will provide you with some results and then kind of prompt you for further questions. You can just keep talking to it. Say, okay, I'm interested in this particular model, or whatever it might be. So I actually did use it to shop for an iPad. I don't need an iPad. I just wanted to see how it worked. I pretty good. I was surprised. Not horrible. And it's also enabled that thing they were talking about probably also back in build, sorry, in binging slash edge, which is AI review summaries, right? And so in other words, you search for a product, you might want to buy it for someone for the holidays, whatever, and you now it will summarize the reviews like you see on Google Maps, right?

If you look at a restaurant or whatever, it kind of gives you these little summaries. What are people saying about this product? Right? I always worry about the quality of that data, but okay. Yeah. I mean when you, right, but useful. Yes. So there you go. That's cool. Another copilot, not bad. Not bad. Have we not talked about AI enough? We haven't. So we get more Woohoo. Well, we have also, this next story is not technically ai, but the next three after it will, everything is technically ai. Yeah, that's a good point. So what is it? Friday I think is the date by which any big tech company that has designated a gatekeeper under the, what's it called, the Digital Market Authority, is that the right term? DMA, this is the eu. One of the EU new laws has until Friday, November, or maybe it's tomorrow 16th.

I thought it was the 16th, but whatever the date is soon to appeal their decision on that. Some have, I think meta this morning might've come up with something like that. I kind of They're going to appeal it. Well, yeah, they don't want to be, because once you are designated into this category, you have to adhere to these very stringent laws. For example, if iMessage was considered a gatekeeper product, they would have to make it interoperable with Android messaging or sms. So normally it is just not very good. Yeah. So there's some big stakes here, but interestingly, Microsoft and also Google have decided not to challenge the existing designations that they have. I don't know. They could. Where are you going to go? I think honestly, the reason you would do this, if you know you are in fact meeting the requirement to be a gatekeeper, would be to push back the time when you would have to actually adhere.

Right? I think that would be, and maybe unravel it a different way. Yeah. Google has a lot more services that fall into this designation is you might expect between search and everything else. They do. Microsoft only has a few, although I guess there are some hanging in the balance, including binging might make the list. I don't all 6% of binging. I know. Okay. Yeah. E'S taken a hard line stance of this. But anyway, they came out and publicly said, yeah, we're not, I mean, the other side of the gatekeeper story is also just sort of that sort cementing dominance in the position too, right? When you create regulations like this, you create incumbents. Your cameras, whoa, haywire. Wait a minute, the camera just did that. Yeah. Tired. Tired. I don't want to look at you guys anymore. Guys are not that good looking. Wow.

So anyway, I thought that was kind of interesting. And then let's run through these quick, actually, these are all Google. So Google, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Ignite, but it's a bunch of AI stuff. This week, generative AI search is now coming to over 120 countries, which is kind of interesting. This is that, actually, I forget what it's called. They have a separate generative AI search experience. The goal here, I assume is to roll it into general Google search. At some point they've announced that they're going to identify any AI based video content that comes onto YouTube. So you get a little disclaimer, kind of like you see when there's a product associated with a video. Do they have to put a little call out there? Yeah, a little thing. This is a sponsored video. So this will be a AI sponsored video.

I guess this video with Biden's executive order, is it? Oh, it might, yeah. AI generated stuff. That could be, yeah, pretty quick if that's true. Yeah, of course. The EU is already headed down that path, and they've had this forever. They just never wanted to put it out there. And then this one, I've been waiting for this. This is actually really cool. So because I've been doing all this digital decluttering stuff, I have to say, one of the things that becomes really obvious when you really look at it is there's two worlds, well, maybe three worlds of photos for a person. They're the old photos from the eighties or whatever that were just paper-based, or the negatives, you scan 'em in, they're in books. They're just the way they are. There was a digital camera age from the, probably mid to late nineties through the starting with the Ellp.

Yeah, I had a bunch of them myself, a bunch of Cannons, Kodak, an early Kodak. There was the Apple. Apple back in the day. I remember I had one of the first ones, quick take camera, I think it was called. And then there's the smartphone now. And so what happens is you make that transition is you went from a roll of film, which is a very finite amount of data or pitches you could have to a memory card, which was also finite, bigger, but finite to a phone where you're saving it to the cloud. And it's like, who cares? You can. So you take a million back in the day, if I took a picture of you guys last night, at some event, I'd be click once and I'd be very careful with it and take, now this, I've watched you do it. I think that might be 20.

Yeah, exactly. Right. So Google Photos is coming out with a new feature. I actually a couple features to help with this, and I think it's really smart. It's supposed to be out now. I don't have it yet, but it's creating photo stacks of these events. So it takes the time and place, and if you take 20 photos of a group of people, it will prop up the one that thinks is the best take. And you can go in and you can change that and change what's in there. And this might be, this sounds pretty good. This is smart. Yeah. They're also doing auto aggregation and kind of hiding of receipts and other pictures that you take pictures of things or papers or documents and screenshots. These are things that you want in your collection, but you don't want 'em in your photo stream. Yeah. Yeah.

I always photograph my rental car before and after every time where you parked what you did, and you want to keep it for some period of time. That's right. And actually, that's part of it. You can decide to have these things auto archived after 30 days, which is smart. So this is, I think is a great example of, it seems also also very obvious, but I'm glad it's happening. At least it's happening now. This is what AI is bringing us, right? Because it can do such good image recognition. Yeah. It's a small thing. I showed Richard earlier this folder I have of scans where for some reason about 50% of them are not auto rotated. When I switched over to Google photos on my Gmail account, I spent three days getting constant notifications. Hey, some of your pictures are sideways. Hey, and you go in and it will so fix em.

Well, but it does. But sometimes one will be wrong. And you're like, Nope, not that one. And so I literally spent three days, I would do one, I would put the phone down and go, boop, boop. Oh, you have some more work. I spent three days on that. So the ones up in the cloud are actually rotated properly or most of anyway. But you have these photos, it's like, I don't understand why there a button in file expiring to rotate, just make it right. It's a good AI capability. It's like, what's the right orientation for this photo? And it's a time saver. I could control click and right click rotate or whatever I could, but my time is not completely invaluable. Mean. So now you're mad that a machine model hasn't been made yet. Right? See, that's how entitled we get that quickly. This is the whole chair in the sky story. Yes, yes. I thought you're talking about the Lord God. You're flying through the sky for the thunder God. And you're worried that it's taking a second for a message to get between you and the satellite. It's like, give it a second. It's going to space. Yeah, exactly. Yep. That's me. Alright. Alright.

Xbox. Yep. You were just waiting for me to say that, huh? I like, Hey Paul, what's going on in the world of Xbox? Oh, I'm glad you asked lots. So Microsoft announced their Black Friday stuff and among the deals is $50 off select, I would say most Xbox Series X and S console. So if you were looking to get into this ecosystem and haven't done it yet coming up, I don't remember the exact date, but tie did I Friday? Friday actually, right? Because Black Friday is before Thanksgiving, way before I thought. No, it always was, but it was usually the night. It was the Friday after Thanksgiving. It used to be. Yeah. But now we have Black Friday is a season. Black Friday started in September. Yeah. It's not a date. They shouldn't call it Black Friday. But anyway, so that's good. One of the most interesting things, and by the way, based on our reviews, the only interesting thing about Call of Duty Modern Warfare three is that the multiplayer is exclusively remade versions, classic multiplayer maps from the original Modern Warfare two, which is goofy and on some level, but regarded by many Call of Duty fans to be kind of the apex of the multiplayer experience.

And I love this idea. I will say, by the way, I went into the game, so for the first time since March 2nd, I think it was, I actually the other day went into the game. I entered a game, I ran around, I got killed three times and I left. And I haven't looked at it since. The reviews have been god awful for it. I've been waiting to hear what you thought. So I don't know what to say about this. It was going to be ADLC, which I think was the right approach, something to do with the timing of the Microsoft acquisition. They thought, you know what, let's go out with a bang if we can and try to turn this into a game. I don't care about single player at all. And so it doesn't affect the multiplayer, the reviews are for the single player campaign, right?

Yeah, I think so. It just seems like it was thrown together. I mean, they were always going to do this campaign bit. It was going to be an add-on to the Modern Warfare campaign. So multiplayer is still just as good. And you've got these classic maps and that sounds pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds pretty good. I can't say that I played it 14 year olds a teabag, but those maps are fantastic. And I actually looked at two, but I only played for three seconds in one. But they are beautiful and they're immediately recognizable. The memories of these places are, like I've said in the past, was real, those memories of any place. So it's kind of cool. Anyway, call of Duty is not the only one doing it. Halo Infinite just released a retro playlist of multi-player maps all based on classic Halo three maps from 2007 I think it was.

That's fun. Wow. That's really cool. And it is a combination. Some of them are straight up remakes. The dynamic's a little weird because Halo Infinite doesn't really play like Halo three, even though you look at it and you think, my God, they kind of nailed this thing. It looks like a classic Halo game. The feel is actually quite different. So some of the maps are what they say and is actually, there's a stupid Mountain Dew tie I refuse to discuss, but they redid a map from Halo two as well that has a Mountain Dew themed name that again, I'm not going to go into, but it's free. So if you own the game or if you get it through Game Pass, you can play this playlist and reli the past a little bit. It's kind of fun. There's a bunch more. It's the middle of the month, so we've got more Game Pass games.

We have, I would say, let's see, one, two after this, but probably at least two more of these drops to go before we get anything from Activision Blizzard. This one is super Light. It's Three Games is a doing Game Roller. I don't know any of these games. Basically, this is what I have to say all the time. I don't recognize any of these games. They're pretty far down the catalog these days. And this is one of the problems that Active Vision Blazer is going to solve, right? This is going to, it's going to add a few, it'll going be a year. Well, it's going to be a good year, I think every month. Yeah, catalog games, older games. It's going to be, yeah, all the old hardballs and made a lot of games. All the old call of duties. Right. And then I think the rest of this might be, these are non-Microsoft gaming things.

So there's an OLED version of the steam deck coming. I think Valve announced that there wouldn't be new hardware other than this new screen for at least a year or two, I think, if I'm not mistaken. But 5 49, the reviews on this are overwhelmingly positive. Actually, this seems to be the thing people were looking for. How much? 5 49. That's not bad. Yeah, it's not bad. 12 hours of battery life, depending on the game, et cetera. Yeah, probably two hours away I play. But yeah, I mean, so that's fine. PSS five, slim as they're calling, it's not very slim. It's not very small. It's kind weird looking. I always thought these things were weird. The PSS five to me looks like a Starship or Star Trek Klingon ship or something like it's a weird shape. It goes well in rooms, like living rooms and things. I don't know what they're doing, but it's slightly smaller.

It's cost reduced. It's available now in the us. So if you want that. And then Sony released earnings, actually, they did great, but they fell short of announcing that we're not actually going to hit the sales target. They didn't actually say that part. They addressed it. And what they said was, we don't have any changes to this, but for them to meet the target, which is 25 million units in their fiscal year, which goes from March to March, they would have to sell, let's say they sold 4.9 million units in this quarter. They only sold 8.2 million so far in the year. So in less than in half a year Christmas though. I know. But it would have to be the best Christmas the PlayStation's ever had by a factor of three almost for them. There's no way they're going to do okay. Yeah, they're not going to make the number.

They said, we recognize that selling is, they're hitting the goal is a challenging goal. It was your question. You even have that many units. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. I don't know if they do. They have a lot of excess units. They're going to run into some issues when they don't hit this right, because that's a bad look. I mean, when they announced it, it seemed plausible. It seemed like something they might be able to do. Predicting the future coming out of the pandemic seemed done wise. Yeah. Well, they did a better job than Microsoft of managing inventory control and all that kind of stuff, but they're a little more integrated in their manufacturing. And then Amazon, I saw this and I thought, my God, is Luna gone? But no, Amazon announced or actually acknowledged. They laid off about 180 employees in this game division, and they're going to refocus prime gaming as it's called, just to be a better offering, I guess. So I saw this and I thought, here we go. It's like, now is Luna going to die? But there was no news along that. So the eu, I'm sorry, England says the cloud gaming's the hottest thing out there. Yeah, I don't understand.

All right. At least they waited until Activision biz went through to an because the problem. But there's a very confusing, this is true of Amazon in general, but there's a confusing array of services that you get as a prime member. And then there are these upgrades. And so you could do, there's a free version of Amazon music you get, but there's also upgrades you pay. So if you're a Prime member, you pay less than you would otherwise for the upgrade. And this is true in the gaming space as well. So there's a prime gaming thing that you should look at. If you're a Prime member, it's PC base, but there's also Luna, and then there's Luna. You can attach other subscriptions or whatever to that. So there's actually tiers of this. So it's a weird, it's kind hard to understand when you see a headline about Amazon gaming, you have to go look at it and say, what part of it are they talking about? And basically it's the part that gives you free games every month as a prime member. So they're going to kind retool that. There's been no word about Luna, so Luna's still going and guys, you're using it. I think it's really great. I thought it was really great when I used it for two minutes, but yeah. All right.

There you have it in a nutshell. Yes. So let's take a break. And then the back of the book is coming up, tips apps, and Yes, even though they are in Seattle, and I saw you had a nice meal, it looked like with Donna Saka and Scott Hanselman, some nice people maybe enjoyed some brown liquor there and you'd like to share it with us. I'm just thinking, oh, this is a story layout. There's a story all that coming up in just a bit. But first, a word from our sponsor, our episode today, brought to you by Melissa, the data quality experts. For over 38 years, Melissa has helped companies harness the value of their customer data to drive insight, to maintain data quality, and to support global intelligence. Look, all data goes bad. Expires in fact, more than you think, up to 25% a year.

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But everybody gets the benefit of it because you've got to have to have a superior level of security to get FedRAMP authorization. They're also G-D-P-R-C-C-P-A compliant. They meet SOC two hipaa high trusts standards. I mean, look, they do everything right. This is their thing. They love this. They're passionate about it, and you can sure benefit from it. Make sure your customer contact date is up to date. Get started today with 1000 records clean for free. Melissa, M-E-L-I-S-S Thank you, Melissa. We appreciate your support. Now let's get back to Seattle. Alright, time for the back of the book. Let's kick it off with a tip of the week from Paul. Yeah. Since we've started this podcast, we have become surrounded by people. Well, it's lunch. Yeah. Oh, eventually the They're not looking for you. They're looking for roast beef sandwich. Oh, no, no. They're looking at us.

They're back. Well, and they're eating. We have chairs that they do air sitting on the floor. Yeah. Anyway, it's just weird how crowded it got. Yeah. So I mentioned the Xbox Black Friday sale. Google is also having one. The air starts on Friday. I don't know how long it goes, they didn't say, but if you were in the market for Pixel or other Google hardware and haven't bought yet, look at this because me, I have a six and the eight by all accounts is fantastic. Amazing. I don't know that I want the pro. I think the pros good. Oh really? You can take your temperature with it. Yeah, that seems like a useful feature. How hot is my coffee? It's the same temperature as coffee. Also, don't get it too close because you'll fry the camera lens there. Yeah. But yeah, so the prices there look great across the board.

It's Pixel Bud and Aeries and Pro are on sale or will be on sale. Tablet fold is 400 bucks off. Wow. Wow. Prices are actually fantastic. So I definitely, look, I don't have to do this week in Google now because you've pretty much done all the Google stories. Yeah. Actually suddenly it's this weekend in Windows Google. Yeah. So I did this on purpose. I'm trying to ruin your other podcasts. Yeah, thank you. No, please do be my guest. Although if I can't ruin 'em, I don't know who can, but Okay, go ahead. Alright, well I assume you guys will be talking about what's going on with Fitbit. It was that alarming bit of news last week where Fitbit was, I wear a Fitbit. Yeah. And yeah, they dropped a bunch of countries including Mexico. Mexico, which is, I think I told you the story because my wife, on one trip we tried to find some accessory, a charging accessory.

They were not available in that country anywhere. And we've looked a lot of, and since then we can use Amazon and Mexico. That works fine. And she broke her, I guess a versa. I think she had a Versa too. And the screen literally popped off. It was crazy. And she wanted to buy a new one and it was not offered in Mexico. So through Amazon we were able to get it from the United States. It took two days instead of one to arrive. So Mexico, third world country. But anyway, it was not Mexico. And of course now they kind of went official with it. So I guess they're scaling back and one argument is they're getting ready to kill that. That's the worry I have, and we talked about this privately, but I think there is not only a market for the tracker. You have a charge tracker, the Pixel watch, which only gets 20 hours of battery life or whatever, and it's big.

What I like about the charge is it's small, but I also think there's room in the middle for a simpler smartwatch that has great battery life, like six days, like the Versa and the, what is the other one called? The Sense get. But they haven't been updated in a year and I bet they will not be. Well, they just made a charge six. Yes. That was the only, the other argument is that they are trying to streamline and their service centers are, they're going to keep the Google ones. And so because what they did was they cut the country, is that the Google watch wasn't sold it. That's right. They lined it up with what Google already has. So I'm thinking they're cutting a bunch of the Fitbit expenses I think so to actually keep it alive. And so they lined up the countries the same as the watch.

I'm just curious what the Fitbit lineup looks like on the other side. Because like I said, there's definitely a market for this and I wouldn't be surprised at all from a political power perspective that the Google Watch guys will lynch anything, watch line, and they go make stuff. Except that on their way to doing that, they thing will run out power and they'll forget what they were doing because their watch doesn't last even for a single day. No, you need to have a couple of chargers around you that the wife switched to. She likes it. But I like the charger last for days. That's the one I use normally, the six, the five rather. And that's great. I think the six is on sale right now for a good price too. Oh, that could be. Yeah. Okay. So that's happening. And then the app pick, I'm going to go with Microsoft Loop. I think this is the time to start experimenting with it and trying it. I'm going to see if using it with my commercial account makes a difference. I just think that that Windows blurs that line so hard. You don't even know what you're using if you're using it as a home product or that's No, that's true. Yeah. I mean, when I heard that it was hitting gi, I installed it on my new phone, which I hadn't done before. And I sign up with my Microsoft account to see how that would go. No problem.

Appears like it would for a commercial account where it looks like they advertise how features work and everything. And that was not the experience before. So the app's been updated, so we'll see. Yeah, they wouldn't release it early. I mean it's Microsoft. Come on. Crazy time. Alright, I guess it's my turn. Yeah. On run as this week, I have one of my regulars, Richard Hicks, who I usually count on for V VP N services, like access services, all the different, Microsoft's made so many different flavors of it, and he's written all the books on it to the point where Microsoft calls him to explain their product to him. Love it. But I had been chatting with him elsewhere and we talked about intra, which is just frustrating name, what is this? And most people are thinking it's just Azure Active directory, which is in there. But Richard had a really good take on a, there's an awful lot of work going on to sort of size authentication across the board, AED being a part of it, but also application authentication, like all of these other pieces.

And we ended up in a long conversation about conditional access. Yes. Oh my God. That's a term from Yes, it is such a 20 years ago. Well, so most companies that I've dealt with that are in this space have conditional access set up for M 365. When you turn on MFA, which you probably did, it's an IT person because you don't get cyber assures without it. You're setting up some conditional access rules and you can advance them. You can say only these countries or put additional requirements on if they're out of location or what's the response to hardware change, all of these sorts of rules around it, which is cool. It's just that, that's just around 365. What happens when you want to work on an app or you're using CISs admins accounts, remote, so forth. And one of the points he made is that conditional access is now everywhere.

What ENT intro is really about is taking these kinds of standards and applying them to every authentication scenario. So if you've set it up well in one place, you've set it up well in every place. So it's not just a stupid name. No, it's also, well, it's actually, I feel like this is right side. We've had a long period in the cloud where they're just hurling stuff at the wall to see what would stick. And now what we're starting to see is that they've picked up the stuff that stuck and are spreading it around like a child screwing, Hey, conditional access is really powerful where it doesn't get in your way when you're doing your usual thing. When you're on your usual machine in your usual location with your usual login for your usual work, it's almost invisible. You're in, it's fine. You travel, it asks you a bunch of new questions, it asks you to re-authenticate, those kinds of things. And so it's all about resisting the potential exploiters and the fact that you could spend the time or hire a pro to set up a set of conditional access rules for your company, and then you just apply that policy to your hybrid apps running on-prem would follow those same rules. You just would get all of that. And that's where we went on that show. It became, to me really compelling. It's like, oh, it's really worth spending time with conditional access now, because it's not just about one thing. It's about authentication across the board.

I look forward to hearing it. Yeah. Richard Hicks, ed, I just finished the second here. Jeff Fritz episode. Oh yes. On DR and Nice. That was our episode. Run as Now you said you had a story. Oh boy. Therein lies tale. Oh boy. Alright, well, I actually had, this story comes in several parts. I just want to point out, by the way, you're running right now, Microsoft, Luke. Yep. This is me using Luke normal for my work. I moved all of the whiskey stuff to Luke. Well, should we move away from Notion to yet? Let's, we'll get there. We'll get, so we've talked about Baker's Mark before, and it's been one of my favorite whiskeys for a long time. Mostly because when I was one of the tours I did, I think it was back in 2013 where I just came out of it liking the product even more.

Now, mark is not one of the legendary whiskeys. It hasn't been around for forever. It's basically everywhere. And it's just a high quality thing. It's a nice quality bar whiskey, right at a reasonable price. T Williams, bill Samuels Sr. Started it in 1958. Well, he, little earlier night, he bought the Berks Distillery in Loreto, Kentucky. Took a few years to get up and running. And from day one he did this hand dipped red wax. That's the thing that's cool about it, right? The red wax top sure is the wax top. And so they only started in 1958. It was an older distillery that they refurbished and so forth, and it went through the normal owner. The seventies was a tough time for whiskey. And so they were sold to her and Walker and Sons in 81. And then that gets rolled up into Allied Dominic.

That becomes printed Ricard. And then there's some conflict. So they, they're going to spin off the brand Baker's Mark. They sell it to Fortune Brands, which then got broken up into some antitrust stuff in 2011. And so finally they make a new company called Beam Incorporated after Jim Beam. So it's owned by the same group that owned Jim Beam now owns Baker's Mark, which is these iterations. And that was right around the time that the third generation that Rob Samuels took over. So it was his grandfather that started it, then his father had run it through those difficult times. And then as it got turned in front of beam ink, it was very Kentucky centric, Rob was running it. And then in 2014 they merged with Suntory to become Beam Suntory, which is the current structure that it's in right now. Which sounds like it would be bad.

And there's an interesting conversation there about the effects of having a larger company because for a long time, mark made exactly one product mark in 2010. They made Makers 46 and Makers 46 is Mark, except that they finish it with French staves. So you can't call it bourbon if you put it in anything other American O. Right, right. So what they figured out is you take a few French staves and you hang them on a food safe to hide the barrel, get this a little different flavor. This is meeting the letter of letter. And again, I did the tour back in 2013. They have two lines, so two sets of stills. They use a high column still for the initial distillation and a pastel for finishing. I've tasted the raw product in both scenarios. I've tasted the wart, they have a wooden rick house that has a rotator on it.

So the barrels sit in racks and the bottom regular intervals, every year or so, they take the bottom barrels and move up to the top. They sort of, even the aging and the big thing they talked about is that whiskey and aged in that part of the world in the wooden building that it's ready when it's ready, but it's ready somewhere between five and six years. And one of the things they would demonstrate for us is they give us a taste of an over oat or an overaged version. I love this term. Is this possible? Well, part of this I think is people's tastes have changed, but this was very much their position. And remember I did this in 2013 just before the Beam Centura merger. And so okay, I really like what you guys are doing. Yes. They still ham dip all the bottles.

You could hand dip your own bottle if you like. They'll do a custom label for you. I have a bottle. It says for Richard Campbell is a Handin bottle. It's awesome. That's great. And this year we suddenly hear about this seller aged version. But let's back up. So last time we saw each other in person was the cruise. And now here we're hanging out, we're back in Seattle, we're back at a conference. It's kind of the old times. And so right away we're like, should go to Daniels. Yeah, you're right. We should go to Daniels. You're not an effective block or bad behavior. Let's be clear, I'm a facilitator, enabler, talked a little bit about, he's like, let's do something more responsible than that. No, if we, did I say about go to Daniels, we didn't even have to go outside, but we started in the bar.

Oh, you were right on it out front. The Rick House bar is right out front of, and it is literally the shared bar with the Daniel's bar. Now look, I'm a professional alcoholic, so I do study what's on the shelf. It tells me about the bar pretty quickly. So I noticed they put scotch on one tier. They put burn on another tier, and there's scotch questions. Okay, there's a few. There were no Mars up there. There was the glamor. I'm like, that's okay that the whiskey collection, the berry collection was exceptional and these's things I look for. So it's like they clearly had the food and beverage manager clearly has a relationship with the re distiller because there was lantis and eagle, rare and bull, all bullet rye and B. And then they had a bunch of rices and they had the mixer special rye.

Those are difficult whiskeys to get. So I'm like, okay, this whiskey election is serious and we're going to go have dinner. And I figured we're going to finish with whiskey two Manhattans first and then a couple of Manhattans crisis with a credit card. They lost his credit card, they dropped it down behind, they closed it. You could see it. It was just 20 feet down in a pit, couldn't get to it. And so then we go in for dinner and right away to the guy who's sitting us, I'll be getting into your whiskey collection later. And he's like, oh, I'm here to help. No problem. And then we sit down and I'd look at the wine list and the wine list is thin. And right away I'm thinking, oh, we're having steaks. It was thin in certain areas. Yeah, we're having steaks. And so you want a big fat wine.

And I was like, okay, well let's go Italian. Let's get an amone. There's no amarones on the menu. There were no multiple there, but there were three baross. I know. Very strange. And so now the sommelier company. And so I'm harassing him about the, it looked like kind of a mob boss didn't had that mob boss vibe, but he's got a shtick. And he was working the shtick, but we were being checked out. And that's when now he steered us over to a carbon era from in Chile. And part of me is like I've told him what wine I wanted and he's now finding me a comparative price wine that he wants me to try had experience. My wife and I tried Chinon Block for the first time based on the recommendation, the guy we know from a restaurant in Washington DC and now we actually seek out this wine.

And generally speaking, if the sommelier has got some gauge on you and he suggests the one, you should try it. Yeah. He's not going to steer you wrong. And if he did, it's his fault. Have you feel like a whale in Las Vegas? They see you coming through the door and you're like, all right, let's get someone on these guys. Well, I mean there's certain bars I go to enough that I'm in Vegas, those guys know me and they know that I want the back shelf stuff. And so the real question is, I asked him, is there back shelf wine? What are you telling me? And he goes, there's back shelf whiskey. And so then I started naming a few and we went to Pappy, of course. He goes, yes, I have 12, 13, and 50. And I'm like, okay. And I knew it was going to be pricey.

I think he wanted 150 a shot for the 15. So we save money technically. Yeah. Well, and This's, the thing is, I know that bottle, that bottle's $50. Right? But you can't get one. Anyway, now we go into the weirder whiskeys and he pulled the Will it purple top, which we'll talk about next week. And this Mark seller aged right now, this is a 12. This is a blend of 11 and 12 year old make's Mark. But wait, I did a tour 10 years ago where they told me, oh no, after six years it's over bridge. So what's going on? What's happened is that they aren't using the Rick house. They're still doing four or five years in the Rick House. And then they're moving the barrels into literally a limestone cellar. And so now it sits in a limestone cellar for this extended period.

And it's interesting that they're using elevens and twelves. So the rickhouse is warm, it's wood. And this place is obviously cold, but it is steady. Right. It's probably 68 degrees Fahrenheit in there, steady the whole time. And so it's more tolerant to the time on wood. You're not getting as much breathing, you're not getting as much loss. I would just say that what happened there was pretty close to perfection. It's a very, very nice whiskey. And it's cask strength. I didn't notice it's bottle of cast strength, which seems to be around 57%. Yeah, it was a bit expensive. It was a little pricey because you can't find it. But Richard was paying, so why not? Not exactly. We split. It was only released in the market earlier this year, and it initially was priced at 150 a bottle. And I found a couple of liquor stores with the listing still, but they have none.

I can only find a bottle if you said, go get a bottle right now. There are specialty whiskey shops that have it say they have it for sale. 600 bucks. 600. Yeah, that was right. I can't believe I remember anything from that night, but yeah, that's what I thought it was 600 bucks. So that is the story of Baker's Mark as Cellar aged. It's good. It's possible. I fell asleep with Richard's room later that night. But the point is, I hadn't seen them in a while. Yeah, there was a few cocktails in a bottle of wine, but there was some great pictures too. A view from Charlotte Restaurant later that I really enjoyed. There's Donna Skar and Scott Hanselman looked like you guys had fun. So you're having a good time. Yeah, Donna was always, I notably did not drink a lot that night. Actually, that was the next night. That was the next night. That's what I figured. I always mature on day two.

And this is day three. Everything's good. Everything's good. What fun Maker's Mark? Seller aged 2023. Yeah. Still no age declaration on it. But this says on the site though, 11 and 12. Right? So yeah, if this was list price, you'd be stupid not to buy it. Well buy it. If you find 150 bottle, grab it. It's actually be suspicious. Really? It's that good. It really was good. It's an excellent, excellent bourbon thing. As good as Annie. Do you think BevMo would have it if I run over? Nope. I checked. Yeah, you can go online and find a special shop. They'll sell to you for 600 bucks. Wow. But 600 bucks is too much. It's ridiculous. And I've seen on TikTok, I think they actually dip it in wax. They take the bottle and they dip it in wax all those, every one of those bottles is handy.

So it's all unique, which is kind of cool. I really like that. It's also, there's a big story about Beam Santore pushed them to make this. Oh really? They didn't want to, huh? Yeah, they never wanted to make it. So actually, this is an example of the big company having a positive impact on this little local job. Oh geez. What did I do? I chopped you guys an app. I'm doing something strange. Let's go back, push the wrong button, Richard Cough. Richard's dying. And all of a sudden, boom, you're in a split. Well, I'm just trying to get Paul on the left and Richard on the right, but it just won't work. So we just have to, there's a few OCD people in our audience who are just dying right about now. We should have been sitting in the other seats. I think we upset everybody.

We upset everybody. I think that's part of the appeal of the travel. Things are know what's going to happen. Alright, I managed to get through my bit before I trash my voice. I've been there. I'm going to let you go. Richard Campbell run as and is do Netconf done over two to 24 hour run right now? It'll go for the next two days. Okay. So can people see that online? Yeah. Yeah. It's on YouTube at do net com. Okay. Yeah. And the stuff they've already done, like the keynote and whatever, it's all there. Archives. Nice. So you can watch any of it. And of course, ignite. Is it wrapping today or tomorrow? Tomorrow, well actually Friday. Friday. Well Friday, half day on Friday. Okay. Same thing, although they're not actually recording every single session. No. Curious. A mix. Yeah. Mostly. I wonder if they're dark gear.

It's a lot of breakout room. Very nice. Paul Throt, his book lean And are you going back to Macey? You're going to go to the beautiful ABE airport? Yes, I am. And we're moving next week, this coming weekend. So next show. I'll be in a new place. You're moving again. Awesome. Is this a final? A final? There's no such thing as final. My final move will be to the ground, so we'll see. Okay. Yep. All right. Well, there you go. And on Friday I got to do Patch and Switch, and then I'm going right here. And then I'm going to drive back up Joey and Rick, Joey, Rick. Those are two of the guys in those photos. Great guys. And they do their own show, and I crash it every so often. So we do one together. Well, we'll look forward to that.

Oh, look, we did. We got you fixed. Oh, let's just start over. So Microsoft announced, but you have to remember Paul to look left, not right. Yes. Right. I know, because it's very confusing for you. I can't do that. And Richard, if you look right, not left, because that's actually how they're really arranged. I can't handle, I can't do it. I almost had you guys squished together a little bit more, but I don't think you like each other that much. So thank you. Had a no touching policy. But yeah, it's fine. We will be back next week. I will not. No, I will. I'll be back next week. I'm going to take the week after, but I will be back next week and we will be back for you with Windows Weekly. Some of you have noted we don't stream live off the website anymore.

It's on YouTube live when we are actually doing a show. So it won't be live until the show begins. The best thing to do is subscribe to our twit channel and you'll get a notification when we go live. And that means, and you can then watch the show, which usually is on a Wednesday around 11:00 AM Pacific, 2:00 PM Eastern, 1900 UTC. And if you are watching Live by all means either join us in the Discord, we stream it live there too. In one of the stages. I think it's a little better quality on YouTube, but you get to choose, or of course in our IRC after the fact, best way to watch on Demand. Either go to the website, twit tv slash ww or the YouTube channel. I mean, those on-demand shows are all on YouTube. So for instance, today we had some technical difficulties.

We missed the beginning of the show for the live stream, but you can go watch the whole thing on YouTube or Best thing, subscribe, and then you don't even have to think about it. Now they're telling me that some podcast apps stop downloading if you don't listen to an episode. So you might go back and go, where's all the episodes? So do it. But podcasts is not, if you explicitly tell podcasts, download 'em all, it will, and then you'll have 'em. So even if you miss an episode, you can go back and catch it. But whatever you use, we want you to subscribe. If you will, thank you for joining us and we will see you next time on Windows Weekly. Thanks guys. Thank you. Have some more Makers. Mark. I'm supposed to look at it. Thank you, Leo. Thank you. Where am I? I'm over here. I dunno where I can hear his voice. Thanks guys.

Rod Pyle (02:13:11):
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle, editor in Chief VAT Astor magazine. And each week I joined with my co-host to bring you this week in space, the latest and greatest news from the Final Frontier. We talk to NASA chiefs, space scientists, engineers, educators, and artists. And sometimes we just shoot the breeze over what's hot and what's not in space. Books and tv. And we do it all for you, our fellow true believers. So whether you're an armchair adventurer or waiting for your turn to grab a slot in Elon's Mars Rocket, join us on this week in space and be part of the greatest adventure of all time.

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