Windows Weekly 414 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It´s time for Windows Weekly. The new Windows 10 is here, the new Windows 10 is here, no not the final release but we do have an update to the beta. Paul and Mary Jo will talk about that, why you will want to install it on desktop and whatever you do, do not install it on Windows Phone. It´s all coming up next on Windows Weekly.

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This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley, Episode 414 recorded Wednesday, May 20th. 2015.

A Little Stabby

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Leo Laporte: It´s time for Windows Weekly, with our brand new music, thank you Carl Franklin of .netrocks

Paul Thurrott: Hey!

Leo: Hey! I like all the hey.

Paul: Yeah I do too.

Leo: Hey! I think they actually hired Angust to do that Hey.

Paul: Right.

Leo: Mr. Paul Thurrott.

Paul: I thought he would say Oy!

Leo: Oy! Oy! Oy! Mr. Paul Thurrott,, There he is with the Thurrott tea cup, he´s famous for his tea cup. What does that tea cup have in it? Coffee, good coffee. What kind of coffee, I never asked you what kind of coffee? Dunkin Donuts? What´s in there?

Paul: No, we used to get this coffee from Italy called Guglielmo but now the place we got it locally doesn´t stock it so we´ve been getting illy coffee lately.

Leo: illy, my favorite. Lisa doesn´t believe me when I say illy´s the best. We drink a coffee here that´s locally brewed and bottled, no locally roasted by the Petaluma Coffee company called Godfather´s roar and it´s over roasted, it´s really dark and man it makes a fine cup of coffee, I´m drinking it right now. Also here from All about Mary Jo Foley. Hi Mary Jo.

Mary Jo Foley: Hi, Leo.

Leo: For some reason I feel you´re drinking a cup of green tea right now.

Mary Jo: I am a tea drinker more than the coffee.

Paul: Kale tea?

Leo: Yeah.

Mary Jo: No Kale today.

Leo: No kale.

Paul: Kale in liquid form.

Mary Jo: One day I drank a kale smoothie on the show.

Leo: I do remember.

Paul: I still get like a little shutter up my back when I think about that.

Leo: You know it´s so funny because I now have a kale smoothie when we pick up Lisa´s son at school and take him to his tutors we have half an hour to kill and there´s a Jamba Juice right in between and we often stop for a little smoothie and I always get some kale put in it in honor of you Mary Jo Foley.

Paul: Nice.

Mary Jo: Good, good work.

Leo: Turns it to kind of a greenish brown but other than that.

Mary Jo: Yeah it´s not the best color but it´s good for you.

Leo: It´s good for you.

Paul: Kind of rockin’ an Irish forehead today.

Leo: You are, what, have you been out in the sun?

Mary Jo: You are, you look really, sun, like you went out.

Paul: Yeah I just walked around for a while like a homeless person, but I don´t know why.

Leo: You look great.

Paul: Why I´m red.

Leo: You look good Paul. A little sun goes a long way with Paul Thurrott.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: Paul did you, you threatened on the Twitter, to install.

Paul: I was joking, I´m not stupid.

Leo: I hope you were, to install the new build of Windows. I am, to install the new build of Windows 10 on your Skype machine while we were doing the show, you didn´t do that.

Paul: I did install it on other machines.

Leo: Oh good. And? Anything?

Paul: And I will install it on this machine, it looks good.

Leo: Preview Build 10122. Do I have to be in the inner ring? Do I have to be in the super fast track?

Paul: Yeah, fast ring build.

Leo: Fast ring build.

Mary Jo: It just came out an hour ago.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: You guys.

Paul: Looks good though

Leo: Is it a big difference?

Paul: No, it´s a lot of unfinished type stuff I would say, but the msn apps have all been updated which we had seen in late builds but they are really nice looking as which they always were but they have a new layout and they´re really nice.

Leo: You know what I have to do, I should really get it on this machine so I can show everybody, I will for next week, I´ll have it.

Paul: It literally just came out, I mean you might not seem to have it anyway.

Leo: Are you punking me when you write the line The march toward late July launch continues, that´s just a joke right?

Paul: I´ll let the antagonists answer that charge.

Leo: Miss Antagonist, what the hell? You´d said last week that was some OEM making a mistake, now we´re back?

Mary Jo: No, it was an OEM who, the only mistake they made was saying it, that´s, I think it is going to be late July from everything I continue to hear.

Leo: Wow, wow.

Mary Jo: Yeah, so this is yet another milestone along the road. They haven´t yet said this is feature complete but it looks like they´re getting there pretty much.

Paul: No, but you know, the language they used was less new features going forward, multiple times mentioned you know as we were gearing up for the end of this thing, I think all signs are pointing to this coming to a conclusion.

Leo: Jiminy Christmas!

Mary Jo: Yeah, although not really a conclusion like we´ve said before, they´re going to continue the insider ring right and everybody´s still going to get Build.

Paul: Oh have they back tracked again Mary Jo?

Mary Jo: No, they´re going to keep going. They´re going to keep having things go forward with the insider program and also as when you buy a pc later this year if it has Windows 10 you´ll have updates that came out since the time they declared it RTM. What is new in this one? Like this build that came out today it´s more, I saw them say there was some new stuff with the start menu and continuum.

Paul: Yeah some refinements there, most of them are just minor visual things I would say. They removed the toggle for start screen and start menu because they feel like most people are going to choose one or the other based on the device or use tablet mode to have it happen automatically.

Leo: Well tablet will do it, that will be a start screen.

Paul: Yeah, when in tablet mode.

Leo: Do you think most people will just live in start menu until they go tablet?

Paul: Yeah I think if you´re on a desktop you can do your live in start menu period, you never want to switch so why have a button that´s out there taking up space still all the time.

Leo: That makes sense.

Paul: You can still manually change it if you want to you just can´t do it right from the start menu.

Leo: You have to go into settings.

Paul: Yeah, exactly. The other new, there´s a bunch of stuff added to Edge, which is still called project Spartan in this build but the new tab page that they showed off in Build is there, private browsing is there, you know a bunch of other small things like that. I´m trying to see what else, it seems like some of the colorizations are a little different and transparency it´s kind of nicer.

Leo: How about those big ugly icons?

Paul: They´re big and ugly Leo. They´re bigger and uglier.

Leo: They´re bigger and uglier well that´s improvement!

Paul: They didn´t talk about this in the post but like I said those MSN apps have all been updated, you know news, money, sports, etc. Those are all really nice looking now really, really nice. They talked about a change in the default apps functionality which I have to say only half understood but I guess in Windows 8.1 only WIN32 apps can actually trigger an OS prompt that says do you want to change the default app and now any app can and they have a new UI for that, I haven´t seen that yet but that´s part of it but it looks, it looks nice.

Leo: Are you writing a book on this Paul?

Paul: Yeah, the question is whether I´m writing one book or two books?

Leo: Ah. What does that mean?

Paul: Well because there´s phone and then there´s computer.

Leo: Oh I see.

Paul: And I think they need to be different books.

Mary Jo: One Windows, One book.

Paul: One Windows, one book?

Leo: No, no, no, 2 Windows, 2 books.

Paul: I don´t know.

Leo: 2 Windows, more money.

Mary Jo: Yeah, maybe.

Leo: Mo Windows, mo money.

Paul: Yeah well it seems like I could reprogram, yeah because clearly I´m becoming rich as it is.

Leo: It´s big bucks.

Paul: Yeah.

Mary Jo: I mean you could make a case for doing 2 since they have 2 different launch dates right?

Paul: Yeah and I´m actually, I´m trying to think of a way, the problem is it´d be nice to be able to reuse all of the text that was the same between the books because a lot of the things would be describing the same things. But then that becomes an update nightmare right?

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: So, every time something in project Spartan changes I have to go to the exact place in both versions and, I got to think about that, I´m trying to figure that one out but.

Leo: Trying to think but nothing happens.

Mary Jo: Because Windows for pc we know launches this summer but Windows for phones after that.

Leo: But a couple of weeks after that not.

Mary Jo: No, we don´t know when.

Paul: I bet it´s more than a couple of months.

Mary Jo: I bet it´s like fall, don´t you?

Paul: Yeah, I think October launch and actual availability devices like November.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: You know based on history.

Mary Jo: I was going to say based on the latest preview for that which came out last week right after we did Windows Weekly they delivered Windows 10 mobile 10080 and I saw you and others saying it´s pretty buggy, that phone build.

Paul: The phone build is a steaming pile of, what´s the word?

Leo: Oh!

Paul: The phone build is really bad and actually the desktop pc build looks great, I just installed it but it does look great, the phone build was notably bad from the second it was installed and I actually I´ll give this warning out, it´s too late I think for almost everybody who´s going to hear it now but if you think back to february when they first announced the beta for phones, there was a windows insiders app that they had put out for phone and I installed it on my main phone which is the Lumia 930 thinking the desktop build looks pretty good you know, clearly the phone build will look great and then you may recall that that first build that they issued only worked on 6 or 7 phones, it was all low end stuff and it was really disappointing so I kind of just forgot about it. And then when the big build came out they finally supported a bunch of phones, one of the few phones that didn´t support was the Lumia 930 and so this whole time the insiders app´s actually been on my phone that I´ve been carding around all day long everyday but never doing anything because I just had one of those phones that never was going to get the build so I kind of forgot it was there, I was testing it on other machines or phones and the phone builds universally have been pretty bad and when this last build came out like I said I´d forgotten about it so one day I looked at my phone and it said hey you have a new update to install and it was Windows 10 and I said oh God no, and there´s like no way to back out of it, once this thing has downloaded and started the install process you can put it off and then it´s going to say hey on this day this thing´s installing you know and I woke up I think yesterday and this thing had installed Windows 10 and now my phone doesn´t work so I´ve had to switch to my 1520 temporarily until I, I´m going to have to wipe it out, it literally doesn´t work, it´s just unworkable.

Mary Jo: I saw a bunch of people saying this happened to them on Twitter now what do I do? Like, I didn´t want that build and now it´s just automatically going to come to my phone every time there´s a new build.

Paul: Right, a lot of people saying there must be some way to short circuit this right? Maybe uninstall the app or you know, nope, it´s barreling down the tracks so you´re going to have to, I´m going to have to and you will have to if this has happened to you, use the Lumia Software Recovery Tool to go back to whatever the last supported version is probably 8.1.

Leo: This scares me.

Paul: Yep. I would say good luck with it but, well for example so, I´m actually going to look, one of the things that´s on this phone is every single photo I´ve taken in 2015. Now granted I have downloaded a bunch of them to my pc or OneDrive or whatever, but you know I kind of want to make sure I don´t lose any of these things and that´s 8 gigabytes of photos. So that´s one thing I hadn´t so even though it´s like the screen won´t come up, in fact I can, it´s so funny I picked it up it´s warm right. If you can see it, it would be funny because this, it will actually work, so it looks fine, it looks normal and then you do the lock screen thing, let me type in the code, it tells me it´s wrong because I can never do it right the first time, and this is the start screen, it looks like this. It just says loading.

Leo: Loading.

Paul: And this will never correct itself, the entire time I´ve had Windows 10 on this phone I´ve seen the start screen one time and I was able to launch and app and that was it, I´ve never seen it come back so it will sit here like this, this will never, it will never fix.

Leo: Somebody´s saying in the chatroom a hard reboot will fix it, have you tried?

Paul: A hard reboot?

Leo: Like reset you know.

Paul: That wipes out everything on the phone.

Leo: Oh that´s right you said you had pictures.

Paul: I could wipe it out and go back to a build that I know is terrible I guess or I could just go back to 8.1

Leo: Is there a way to reset it without erasing stuff?

Paul: No.

Leo: No, okay, because that´s what they´re saying, they´re saying reset it. But you don´t want to do that because as you mentioned.

Paul: I´ve done everything I can do.

Leo: And I think the tool would also erase it right?

Paul: Yeah, because what it´s doing is loading the retail image and it´s blowing away whatever is on the phone and blasting the stock image back on to it.

Leo: So there´s a little word of caution.

Paul: Yeah again it´s delivered a little too late for most people sadly this thing came out about 6 days ago.

Leo: Not for me because I haven´t, I didn´t update my 1520 yet so.

Paul: By the way, I´ve never done this before but I had this previous on my 1520, I had it on an 830 I think a 635 whatever it was on I can´t see them here anymore but whatever 3 phones it was on, I removed it from all of them. This build is terrible.

Leo: Yikes. But conversely the desktop Windows 10 is great.

Paul: It looks great, I mean again I just, I can´t, I need to use it.

Leo: Is it time to put it on my Dell?

Paul: We´ll talk next week, let´s talk next week.

Leo: Okay.

Paul: If this thing heads out to slow ring yeah, maybe.

Leo: End of July isn´t that far off folks.

Mary Jo: No.

Leo: And that´s the release, wouldn´t you be better off unless you´re, gosh I don´t know at this point if you haven´t installed the beta, why wouldn´t you wait 2 months? Right?

Mary Jo: I´m waiting. I am going to wait.

Leo: And we don´t know or do we know what the experience will be like for those running the beta when the full version comes out?

Mary Jo: Someone said the goal is inplace upgrade.

Leo: Yeah but in the past it´s not been a good experience.

Paul: They have said that they intend to support that.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Leo: Okay, okay.

Paul: And once again I ask, what could go wrong? If you´re technical enough to have been installing this thing all along and you´ve actually updated build or whatever you know, you´re going to want to clean this instal.

Leo: You want a fresh instal whether you need to or not. But that´s kind of my point is if you haven´t done it yet you´re obviously not a fast ring type of guy or gal, you´re a slow ring and so wait 2 more months that´s all. Right?

Mary Jo: Right.

Paul: Mary Jo are you a fast ring kind of guy?

Mary Jo: I am not.

Leo: She´s a slow ringer, I could tell, a dead ringer you might say.

Mary Jo: A dead ringer yeah, I just don´t see specially at this point, it´s fit and finish now if you´re really, really in rush to see it before July okay or if of course you know if you´re a developer you´ve already been installing it.

Leo: Or IT person.

Mary Jo: Right.

Leo: Do you think businesses are actively, well that sums up the word, do you think businesses are actively considering going from 7 to 10?

Mary Jo: Some are, yeah some are definitely. And those people are already starting to kick the tires in very controlled ways, controlled settings, just seeing what they you know how much of a learning curve there´s going to be and what they think of the experience now and whether they actually want to plan for the upgrade.

Leo: Right.

Mary Jo: So yeah, I think people are doing that.

Leo: So they might, it might quite reasonably be somebody who´s saying well now it´s coming down the pipe at me I better look at it.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Leo: But they´re not going to put it on a production machine because they have all those old computers hanging around.

Mary Jo: Not now specially.

Leo: When they fired the CEO they got his old computer so put it on that one.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Leo: Okay.

Mary Jo: It´s getting there though, and you know it´s, one other thing about today´s build I saw in the blog post that´s probably worth noting is if you have a machine using an AMD processor you should be a bit wary about this build because they warned that, was it AMD?

Paul: I think it was an AMD graphics.

Mary Jo: Graphics.

Leo: Oh it´s the graphics because a lot of people have that. A lot of people have an Intel CPU but could have an AMD GPU.

Mary Jo: You´re right, it´s AMD GPU, if you have that they warned Spartan could be crashy on this build.

Leo: Well I better not put it on my Mac Pro.

Paul: Crashy, it´s like, it´s feeling a little stabby.

Mary Jo: Exactly.

Leo: I feel a little dead. Okay, that´s actually good to know because I was going to put it on my Mac Pro but now I won´t. It has 2 dual radians in there.

Paul: It´ll crash twice as hard Leo.

Leo: I am putting it on here so we can open it up but I noticed the ISO, I´m downloading this from April so I´ll have to download, install.

Paul: Yeah and then update, right, right. So I told someone the wrong information on Twitter that the ISOs don´t come out until the slow ring.

Leo: But if you turn, if you download the ISO and you´re in the fast ring it should give you an update pretty quick right?

Paul: Yes, immediately, yep.

Leo: So that´s the way I´ll do it.

Mary Jo: We just never know which ones they´re going to push to the slow ring, they don´t push every build that´s in the fast ring to the slow.

Paul: Right.

Leo: What about application compatibility? Somebody in the chatroom is saying his Lightroom is not, the new Lightroom creative cloud is not loading, not opening. Then somebody else is saying I ran it with no issue, oh well.

Paul: Well Leo I haven´t checked every single application on the build I just installed 2 minutes ago.

Leo: Every single application.

Mary Jo: You haven´t? Not yet?

Leo: How can you expect to be the guy who writes the book?

Paul: I mean I will.

Leo: I know you will.

Paul: I mean honestly I was running a leaked build before this one, it was, I don´t remember the exact build number, so this one´s 122, I think it might´ve been 112 or 114 or somewhere in there and I put some, I had full blown PhotoShop on there, I had, I have, still have I upgraded it, Visual Studio 2015 release candidate, I had some pretty heavy duty stuff on there.

Leo: So I just download the ISO and it´s 10074 it´s the old one.

Paul: Right.

Leo: So I ´ll let you know, before the show is over I will have Windows 10122 or whatever it is running.

Paul: I believe you.

Leo: Oh I have to put the product key in here, it´s weird that there´s still a product key, are they going to have product key, I guess they will still have to, they´re not giving up product keys, even though they´re giving away the operating system.

Paul: Yeah, you know what, we don´t know.

Leo: Another question that no one knows.

Paul: I think it´s fair to say there will be product keys.

Leo: Yeah because not everything is free.


Mary Jo: Right.

Paul: And you know, free or not, let´s say your computer gets Windows 10 for free because it qualifies, there should be a product key tied to that hardware configuration, it makes sense to have that one to one relationship right? And hopefully that´s how it happens because you could go back later and get the ISO do a clean install, you can blow it away 2 years from now do a clean install that should just work. So that´s my expectation but again, you know, a lot of speculation but we don´t know.

Leo: Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

Paul: Yeah in the heart of the fast ring builds.

Leo: Alright well this is exciting, not such good news for Windows Phone 10, put off build 180, I´m sorry 10080 in the words of Paul Thurrott it´s a freakin mess, it´s a freak show there.

Paul: It is a freakin mess, you know the build like you said is 10080 but, I can´t find it here, if you install it and you go to settings about, you get the version number, and of course the version number is something completely different, because Microsoft, because that´s the way they do things. So the version number is 10.0.12562.84

Leo: Got it!

Paul: You know, why, cause you know, Microsoft.

Leo: Now Paul, I´m just going to make a mention of this, Paul does his own graphics on his website, that has been true and no less true on, I recognize that´s the Park Güell in Barcelona.

Paul: Yes it is, because they launched that phone at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona.

Leo: Ah, so that´s a little spaniard boy using his Lumia.

Paul: Yes it is, using a 640 I believe, 640 excel.

Leo: That´s a real person or is he a model?

Paul: I assume it´s a model, yeah.

Leo: Oh, it´s not your picture?

Paul: It´s a stock photo.

Leo: It´s a stock photo, but I like the Park Güell I think that´s a nice touch.

Mary Jo: Yeah, it´s a great park.

Paul: All of the 640, 640 excel stock photos have Barcelona pictures.

Leo: Oh I didn´t know that, that´s neat.

Mary Jo: Oh really?

Paul: Yep.

Leo: And Paul has on his website screenshots and stuff, stuff and nonsense.

Paul: It´s full hamburger Leo.

Leo: Full hamburger menu look at that!

Mary Jo: We haven´t talked about the Office apps, Office apps for the Windows Phone build, so that´s one thing that was new in that build that Paul doesn´t love. If you go to the beta store in that phone build you can get for the first time the new Office apps, the Office Universal apps for Windows phone, the touch first ones. And that´s, we´ve been waiting for the preview of that since I think the end of April right?

Paul: At least since I think build was when they announced it right?

Mary Jo: Yeah or just around that time yeah.

Paul: Because it was delayed we originally thought that was going to happen during Ignite I think originally and then maybe the week after Ignite and then, I think the delay was probably the build.

Leo: Alright, okay.

Paul: The only way you can get that thing, by the way, in this build is the new Xbox app which is going to replace smart glass app and it closely follows the pc versions.

Leo: Okay, well here we go, I´m installing it now, there you go, it´ll be fun.

Mary Jo: See how it goes.

Leo: See how it goes, um, let´s take a break and then I would kind of like to go in to details on how, on the upgrades and so forth because you have more information on that, thanks to an Australian blogger.

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Leo: Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley are here, we´re talking about Windows and of course as we get closer to the day and I´m just fascinated to hear, because I got the impression that it wasn´t going to be in July from last time we talked but now we feel fairly confident.

Mary Jo: I think we feel confident Microsoft is saying it´s just a partner who said it, like it´s a rumor but I haven´t heard anybody I know, sources or otherwise, say it´s not end of July.

Leo: Alright, okay.

Mary Jo: Let´s see.

Leo: All Microsoft will commit to is summer.

Mary Jo: Yeah I think they say late summer.

Leo: End of July is not late summer, that´s smack dab in the middle.

Mary Jo: True.

Leo: In fact it´s early summer, summer doesn´t begin until June 20th.

Mary Jo: Yeah, I think that´s for them worst case scenario.

Leo: Yeah I think they´re smart, under promise, over deliver isn´t that the best way to go?

Mary Jo: Yeah, that´s what they´ve done for years.

Leo: Good.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Leo: That´s good to know. Let´s talk about what it´s going to look like if you´re doing the upgrade. Windows 10 upgrade paths.

Mary Jo: We´re finally getting a little more.

Leo: This is from an Australian partner blog so presumably they got some information.

Mary Jo: Yeah so Richard Hay found this who works at Paul´s old site.

Leo: Oh. I got confused because I looked at the website and I thought wait a minute.

Mary Jo: You´re like, who´s site is this?

Leo: Wait a minute why are we pointing to this piece of junk.

Paul: I´m just happy that they´re still promoting Windows 8 secrets over there.

Leo: Good! You see, they know, they know. Right there.

Mary Jo: So an Australian partner blog, which is a Microsoft blog posted a list of which versions can upgrade to which versions, and that´s something Microsoft didn´t tell us when they announced the different versions. We asked but they wouldn´t say. So the partner blog said, it´s pretty predictable what they said, they said if your running Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 home basic or home premium you´re going to go to Windows 10 home, so now at least we know that´s the official answer.

Leo: And yeah we even speculated that´s is why they did the SKUs, I mean why have Home and Pro on a free version because you´re upgrading from Home or Pro.

Mary Jo: Right, right and so Windows 8, 8.1 Pro go to Windows 10 Pro. Also the Windows 7 professional and ultimate also to Windows 10 Pro.

Leo: Okay, let´s get that, Ultimate goes to pro okay.

Mary Jo: Ultimate goes to Pro, 8 and 8.1 Pro go to Pro and Windows 7 Pro to Pro.

Leo: But Windows 7 Home, If I had Windows with Bing where would I go?

Mary Jo: Yeah, a lot of people are asking about that and I think you´re just going to go with whatever version you have right?

Paul:They haven´t said anything about there being a Bing version,if there isn´t I would say it´s going to go Home. I mean Bing is core versions.

Leo: The Bing version was the free version on low end machines right?

Paul: Yeah, but it´s really not functionally different from the core version.

Leo: Yeah, it´s just they put the name Bing in there.

Mary Jo: Yep, Bing is there, just it´s an OEM SKU that Windows 8 with Bing.

Leo: So if I have an OEM, I mean almost everyone has an OEM version of Windows, very few really buy and install Windows on a standard machine so, it´s really not even an issue, you just get what you get.

Paul: And you´ll like it!

Leo: And you´ll like it, will there be an opportunity or even a reason to go from Home to Pro?

Paul: Sure, it would be the same as the reason and way as you use it today.

Leo: You could buy up.

Paul: I mean I don´t know that this is in, I´ll look but.

Leo: That´s not free though.

Paul: No it´s not free but you know in Windows 8.1 today you can do an inplace update and actually when you so, it´s funny because the option for this appears in the start menu but it does not run, it can´t find the app so.

Leo: Oh you´re looking at the new version?

Paul: Yeah, I mean it makes sense that it would be the same and I suspect that it will be.

Leo: Yeah, okay.

Paul: Yeah if you have Windows 8.1 today there´s something in there called, actually I don´t see it, or maybe because I have the, I already have the highest end version, um, but if you have a lower end version of Windows 8.1 you can, I´m sorry I´m going to bring it back up on this one, no it´s not coming up there either. Well I´m just going to walk away from this conversation and say it´s probably going to be a way.

Leo: Do you think it´ll be in the store or it´ll be a menu item? You said it´s a menu item now?

Paul: It´s a stand alone app, I assume it will be somewhere, I don´t see it now, I don´t know what I´m looking at anymore.

Leo: Who does?

Paul: It really did disappear, I got it, I´m sorry. Get more features with the new edition of Windows, is the name of it.

Leo: Okay,

Paul: Let´s see why this is not here, get more features.

Leo: Ed Bott´s writing Windows 10 upgrades won´t be free for everyone and then, oh this is the business stuff.

Mary Jo: This is about licensing.

Leo: Yeah.

Mary Jo: This is actually consumer stuff he´s writing about but it´s more, it´s reminding people about things like when you license a version of Windows the license is attached to the device not the person, and he has some cases about what if you´re running in a VM? What is you´re a system builder? What´s it going to look like?

Leo: Okay.

Mary Jo: We´re all just trying to piece this stuff together because so far we´ve heard almost no specifics from Microsoft on this, they´ve given us the version names and that´s about it.

Paul: Remember they promised to talk about this but it hasn´t really been happening.

Mary Jo: They will.

Leo: Well we got time.

Paul: There was a talk in WinHek in March right in China that was about this topic, but it was aimed at hardware makers so there was some info we could clean and there was some stuff later on that we got from phone that came from that but it´s not the full story and it´s certainly not what consumers need to hear because there´s just a lot of missing information there.

Mary Jo: Yep.

Leo: Yeah because so far since I bought a retail 8.1 for my, I use it in virtualization on my Mac at home.

Paul: Right.

Leo: That would be upgradable obviously.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: And I can get an ISO I mean I had a cd, a dvd, I mean what happens?

Paul: Well I mean I don´t know, what you can get we don´t know, see that´s the thing, we don´t know what they´re going to supply.

Leo: Come to think of it I have a Windows 7 dvd, a Windows 7 Ultimate dvd somewhere so.

Paul: Well the upgrade doesn´t apply to the dvd, it goes with the machine on which you install it right? That´s how product keys are assigned.

Leo: Well for instance this is Windows 7, that´s long past, I installed it on an old machine I no longer have, so now what? Reinstall it?

Paul: Yeah, I mean you could.

Leo: The serial number will be no good right?

Paul: Right, We don´t know how they´re going to make, that´s the thing we just don´t know, we can sit here and kind of speculate.

Leo: Okay so the answer is I don´t know.

Paul: Like you said earlier, most people get Windows with a new computer so those are pretty straight forward.

Leo: It´s those of us who didn´t.

Paul: If you bought like an old version of Windows which is software you can buy on Amazon or whatever that license is not transferable so you could not take that and install it on one computer and then later say hey I want to install on this other computer, you couldn´t do it. The retail version of Windows you´re talking about actually you could do it, you´d have to probably do a phone activation but they would allow it because it´s a retail version of Windows.

Leo: Yeah I have you know the physical thing.

Paul: This is why there are books Leo, this stuff is complicated. It´s hard to talk about off the top of your head because, it is doubly hard here because we don´t actually know how they´re going to deliver this stuff to people and transfer this license to you, not really you but to the machine.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: We just don´t know yet and then this is the well spring of our confusion.

Leo: The issue of course would come up if you had Windows 7 or 8 installed in one machine and tried to use that license on a different machine, but they would know because there´s still activation and all that right?

Paul: They would know because they see all.

Leo: They see all, so somebody´s saying the retail version can be transferred to another machine you just can´t have it on more than one machine at a time, that makes sense. That´s good actually.

Mary Jo: Yep.

Leo: Because I don´t know what happened to that old machine I mean, it´s been retired.

Paul: With that said, the chances are good that the machine you´re transferring from and the machine you´re transferring to, both already qualify for the Windows 10 free upgrade.

Leo: Right. That´s a good point.

Paul: We´re kind of splitting hairs here a little bit over something that may not matter.

Leo: Right.

Paul: But we don´t know. I don´t want to promise anyone anything right? I am nervous of the future conversation that begins but you said.

Leo: Yeah.

Paul: It´s important to qualify everything we´re talking about because there are many important details that we just don´t have.

Leo: No guarantees.

Mary Jo: Right. And then you know because people continue to ask about this a lot of people are asking still about Windows RT and can you upgrade to some version of Windows 10 from that? The answer is no, they´ve said no and you´re going to get some sort of an upgrade but it´s going to be a subset of Windows 10 features and we don´t know which ones and we don´t know when. So just repeating that for people who haven´t heard that yet.

Leo: Yeah, some RT update but not on Windows 10, RT is dead, gone.

Paul: Can I make a prediction now because I know how people think and how they behave on Twitter, this is what´s going to happen, they´re going to release this RT update and they may be stupid enough to call it something like Windows RT 8.2 or something let´s just pretend that´s what it´s called, and you have to imagine they have some subset of Windows 8 features I´m sorry Windows 10 features like Mary Jo said, and that that subset may include things like the new start menu that can be a start screen or a start menu, it´s probably not going to have Edge because it would´t make sense to put the work into that but you know maybe it has a new file explorer that kind of stuff. When they release this thing we´re going to hear complaints from people who have normal Windows computers who are going to say how come I can´t get that update? That´s all I want. I don´t want Windows 10, I want that thing. I just want to predict that that´s going to happen.

Leo: Yeah. Okay. Yep we know that.

Paul: I know it´s obvious.

Leo: In a world where Twitter exists, virtually all, if it´s possible it will happen.

Paul: Right, you really have to, you have to think through what will the people complain about for this? And it´s, every time it´s something.

Leo: All possible universes exist on Twitter.

Mary Jo: Yes they do.

Leo: Stephen Hawking would be proud.

Paul: Sure.

Leo: Alright. So Windows as a service, oh boy, I´m going to be sorry I started this.

Mary Jo: You are, but I´m going to try and make this simple.

Leo: Okay.

Paul: Should I get some popcorn or something because this isn´t going to be simple.

Mary Jo: Yeah, maybe. So in addition to having these versions of Windows 10, there are also things called branches right? And the branches tell you kind of how you´re going to be able to patch and update your version of Windows. Is it already bad?

Leo: No, it´s just the first sentence alone, okay go on.

Paul: There is a monster that lives in a cave. And this monster sometimes it gets angry.

Mary Jo: If I just had a pen and a giant Surface hub I could diagram this for you guys.

Leo: You could illustrate this, okay.

Mary Jo: Okay but envision like a table or a chart, on the left you got your Windows versions: Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Enterprise, Windows 10 for Education. Then you have these things called branches, that say when and how you´re going to get patches, new features, security updates, there´s a thing called the current branch, current branch for business and long term servicing branch, so there´s 3 of those and 4 of those. Envision a giant chart, like a matrix, I´m making it worse I know.

Paul: Exactly like a matrix.

Mary Jo: I´ll just tell you the things you need to know, if you are business and you want to be on a branch that lets you never take any new features for Windows 10 like never you want the long term servicing branch. We think the only version of Windows that´s going to be allowed to get a long term servicing branch is Windows 10 for Enterprise, so that´s only for businesses, everybody else no matter what SKU you´re running, you´re going to have to take these updates, that Microsoft rolls out, features, hot fixes and security updates. You´re going to have to take them all at some point. If you´re on the current branch you have to take them right away, you can´t delay. So that´s people who are like Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Home, when Microsoft rolls this out you´re going to take these and you´re going to like them.

Paul: Individuals.

Leo: You´re going to like them!

Mary Jo: And if you don´t like them, too bad.

Paul: It´s hard not to hear that end of that sentence when you say you will take it.

Mary Jo: You will, you will.

Paul: And you will like it.

Mary Jo: Exactly. But if you are, anybody who can get what´s called current branch for businesses, that´s some Windows 10 Pro, all Windows 10 Enterprise, all Windows 10 for Education, if you have the rights to that branch you´re going to have the option to delay taking the new features for a sub period of time. We don´t know what the sub period is, it might be a month, it´s not going to be a long window. Microsoft´s goal is to get everybody on the same version of Windows 10 instead of having some people hold back security updates, some people not take certain new features because that way you don´t know like you have to patch all these different scenarios where everybody´s not at the same point. There goal is let´s get everybody to the extent possible on the same version with all the same updates, all the same security fixes and all the same features. I know it sounds really complicated I´m actually trying to make it simple but just know that if you´re a business customer and you want never to take a new feature you´re going to have to be on Windows 10 Enterprise, you can not be on any other version.

Leo: Interesting.

Paul: I just want to clarify, not clarify but make sure I understood what you just said, the only way to forever put off updates?

Mary Jo: Yep, or at least for 10 years probably right?

Leo: Okay so the Enterprise version of Windows 10.

Mary Jo: Yep.

Paul : And then, I guess that would be applied by some kind of corporate policy.

Mary Jo: Yep.

Paul: Okay.

Mary Jo: And that version of Windows 10 for Enterprise is not free, that is one that you can´t get for free. So in other words you´re going to have to pay for that if you want that right to delay that forever.

Paul: Oh you´ll pay.

Mary Jo: You will.

Paul: You´ll take it, you´ll like it and oh will you pay.

Leo: And just to reiterate, you said this and you´ve said it before but just for everybody else will be getting automatic forced updates.

Mary Jo: Yes.

Paul: But there´s an interim too though.

Mary Jo: There is.

Paul: In other words, what did you call, what´s the name?

Mary Jo: Current branch for business is the interim.

Paul: Okay, is the interim piece and that allows managed businesses of any size to delay updates for some amount of time.

Mary Jo: Some period of time.

Paul: Actually have they specified that period?

Mary Jo: No, they have not. I´ve heard some people say it might be as short as one month but I have not seen anything that says how long that is and then the other question is, no sorry, and the way they´re going to enforce that is, this is kind of diabolical on their part, you can see them rubbing their hands together.

Leo: Mua, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Mary Jo: Yeah, so how do you make sure a business is going to do it? You say to them we´ll let you delay your new features and updates for a month say but if you don´t apply them at some point we´re going to not give you anymore security fixes for that version.

Leo: Ah.

Paul: Yikes.

Mary Jo: Yep, that´s what they´re going to do here, that´s the way they enforce that policy. You need the security fixes so you better update.

Leo: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Paul: So I guess what they´re trying to do is and then run around someone who might be using a third party system management solution of some kind where.

Mary Jo: To hold thing´s back, yeah.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Alright.

Paul: And what is the Windows update for business, the lowest end SKU that can get that, is it just Pro?

Mary Jo: Pro, yep.

Paul: Yeah, okay. It makes sense.

Leo: No, in fact what´s a shame is people here get a little nervous, but this shouldn´t make you nervous because if you´re an IT professional in an Enterprise situation you know this stuff right? This is all, this is why you´re an IT professional.

Paul: Technically though, I mean any business today could I believe hold back any update they wanted to.

Leo: Today? Well yes but that´s the point it´s going to be different under 10.

Paul: That´s different, yeah.

Mary Jo: They´ve started to try to ween people away from that hold it back forever with Windows 8.1 and with Windows server 2012 R2 they´ve started putting some things in place that make that less likely that you´re going to hold back forever but they´re trying to teach IT pros new behavior basically like so many IT pros the way they´ve always done this is we´re going to hold this until we decide we´re ready or somethings we´re never going to patch or somethings we´re never going to give any new features and so they´re trying kind of to ween people away.

Paul: It´s sort of how the carriers treat Windows phone.

Mary Jo: Yeah, pretty much except not in a good way at all.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Alright, yeah.

Paul: I find this to be very confusing.

Mary Jo: It´s kind of diabolical though isn´t it?

Paul: Well I.

Mary Jo: I mean I understand why they are doing it, there are actually good reasons they are doing this which is, and they made this case by the way at Ignite, they said because everybody´s holding back different patches and some people are applying optional updates, some aren´t. When we patch something it´s going to break some things because everybody´s not on the same version we can´t test for every company.

Paul: Wow so now, so they´re kind of blaming everyone else for the problems updating.

Mary Jo: And they admit they´ve been, no just I think just like other Microsoft products in the past they allowed people and enabled people to do things a certain way they´re saying we need to teach you the new way to do this and we´re a part of this too. They have to learn that way too right? For themselves.

Paul: I think the crust of this is going to be what time period of business on let´s say Windows update for business or WSUS or whatever is going to be able to push back an update.

Leo: WSUS?

Mary Jo: Windows server update services.

Paul: Kind of like an onPrem, it´s basically an onPrem filter between Windows update and their users and it lets them.

Leo: We´ve talked about this before but I wanted to make sure people understand.

Mary Jo: Yep.

Leo: That´s my job here, I´m the acronym detective.

Mary Jo: WSUS.

Leo: So, okay so I now I have installed my ISO, I´m running Windows 10 but that´s the old version and how will I get the new one?

Paul: Click advanced options.

Leo: Okay, where would that be? Oh here, no?

Paul: Right in the middle.

Leo: In the middle, oh I see.

Paul: And right down at the bottom where it says choose how preview builds, choose fast.

Leo: I want to get to fast, I was on slow ring.

Paul: Now go back, there´s a back button.

Leo: That should be a Creedence Clearwater Revival song, come on and get the slow ring.

Paul: So once this important malicious offer removes.

Leo: Yeah this is just updates because it´s a new install,

Paul: So once you do this update you should see or whatever the build is.

Leo: I really actually have to say I like Windows 10 so much better than any, I feel really good.

Paul: I like it but there was a picture circulating on Twitter today and I don´t normally, I´m not into these kind of user creative mock up things, but the big complaint I have about Windows 10 on the desktop from sort of user experience update you can see it in your screen there, that settings window is very dull. And there´s no contrast like I don´t understand why that top bar isn´t the same color as your accent color with the color you see on the top.

Leo: Yeah you´re right it´s gray.

Mary Jo: Don´t you think that will change.

Paul: It´s just that, like bring up the, not in this build it doesn´t change, if you bring up the file explorer window for example. The yellow folder at the bottom when that window opens, it is.

Leo: It´s gray too, yeah.

Paul: I mean the icons are bright.

Leo: They might change that though, you´re right.

Mary Jo: I think they will.

Leo: Yeah, you know what would be great, let´s make it translucent, you could kind of make it, I don´t know, we´ll call it arrow.

Paul: I like it kind of a glass effect.

Leo: Glassy effect.

Mary Jo: Have we heard of that? Yeah.

Paul: They could use the GPO to render it and it might actually save battery life.

Leo: The icons are indeed colorful.

Paul: They might be a little too colorful I mean compared to the rest of it.

Leo: Yeah well maybe that´s the idea this way you can´t mis them, and I like this pinning feature I think that´s kind of cool, of course it doesn´t do anything .

Paul: Well no, that indicates it is pinned.

Leo: It is pinned, I see, okay. Yeah, I´m very happy as we I for one.

Paul: I think the desktop stuff is pretty much there, there are questions still about usability and tablets, and of course the phone thing is the laughing stock.

Leo: Yeah but our advice is don´t mess with your phone yet, just wait.

Paul: Yeah, I always use the Jerry Pornelle thing remember his line was I make these mistakes so you don´t have to, I just make these mistakes, I´m an idiot and you should follow my lead and not make those mistakes.

Leo: Paul, I´m going to give you an award, it´s a Cortana lunchbox.

Paul: I have one of those already thank you.

Mary Jo: Oh man those are pretty.

Paul: Did you get a Lumia 635 inside?

Leo: Yeah, there was a phone in it, yeah, it says hi, I´m Cortana.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: Isn´t that cute?

Paul: I bring that when I go to work, it´s my lunch build.

Leo: Yeah, you go across the yard and carry you´re little lunchbox.Hi ho, hi ho, it´s Windows 10 I go.

Paul: yeah.

Leo: Now it´s been downloading fbl impressive.

Paul: That´s it, fbl impressive, what did I say? Awesome or something.

Leo: Awesome, impressive?

Paul: Whatever.

Leo: Whatever, it´s going to go nicely with my Cortana lunchbox that´s all I know.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Yeah I think what I´ll do is I´ll keep Windows 10 off my Lumia 1520 and put it on that, what was it a 630 or whatever they sent.

Paul: I had it on the 1520 and it was just awful.

Leo: I can´t sacrifice my 1520 to that, I´m sorry.

Mary Jo: Don´t, don´t do it.

Leo: Don´t do it. Moving along, you know, so free for a year.

Mary Jo: Yeah, we got to talk about this.

Leo: A lot of people, yeah well Microsoft didn´t really explain what it meant. I chose to interpret that as hurry up, download Windows 10, we want everybody to be upgraded as quickly as possible and then after a year we´re going to say okay it´s still free forever. No.

Mary Jo: Maybe.

Paul: I suppose that could happen too but you know what, remember when Windows 8 launched, it was $30, $40 dollars for an upgrade for a limited time and everyone thought they´re going to keep it that way they have to and they didn´t.

Leo: Yeah, that was a shocker.

Paul: Yeah, it was too bad.

Mary Jo: Yeah, so when Microsoft didn´t announce that free for a year deal back in January, they said, if you´re on Windows 8.1, Windows 7, service pack 1 or Windows phone 8.1 you can upgrade to Windows 10 for free for the first year that the operating system is available. So my assumption was what yours was Leo, it´s like and after that you probably will pay right?

Leo: Yeah.

Paul: So by the way that was not my assumption.

Mary Jo: It wasn´t? That was mine.

Paul: No, oh, I´m sorry, I´m sorry, let´s say that you have received the free update so now it´s a year later, you´re not paying for it then.

Mary Jo: No, you´re not.

Paul: Right, okay sorry.

Mary Jo: So that´s the part everybody got confused about this.

Paul: Yeah a lot of people got confused. It´s hard to word this clearly.

Mary Jo: It really is. So if you are somebody who takes that one year free deal and you get Windows 10 sometime between July 2015 and July 2016, let´s say if it launches in July, after that if you have it for free you´re going to keep getting updates for free.

Leo: Yes.

Mary Jo: You´re not suddenly going to start paying for updates next July.

Leo: Great.

Mary Jo: That´s not what this means.

Leo: Good.

Mary Jo: It means if you decided not to take the free.

Paul: It doesn´t move into limited usability mode or something.

Mary Jo: No, it´s not that.

Leo: You got it, you´re a full-fledged member of the Windows community.

Mary Jo: You´re in, you´re in the club.

Paul: And you´re in for the lifetime the support lifetime of?

Mary Jo: You are, the device.

Leo: That machine.

Paul: Something, I mean they say the hardware but.

Mary Jo: Right, but if you didn´t take the deal, say you decide you know what, I´m not ready to do this yet, I don´t want that first year deal and then say next September, September 2016 you go you know what, now I want to go to Windows 10, unless Microsoft extends their free one year deal, you´re going to have to pay something to get it.

Paul: Who was confused about that?

Mary Jo: Everybody! I´ve gotten so many questions and queries because a lot of people thought that this meant after the first year you were going to start paying for upgrades, that´s not what it means.

Paul: Well yeah, that I understand but you know someone who decided all along not to upgrade and now it´s 15 months later and you know what I think I do want to upgrade to Windows 10, did people really think that.

Mary Jo: I guess they thought it was going to be like yeah they did it this year but they´re going to extend it indefinitely. They may, we don´t know right?

Paul: Well we can´t see the future sure but.

Leo: So why give it away for a year and then start charging for it?

Mary Jo: They´re not going to do that.

Leo: They just won´t.

Paul: Why only for one year you mean?

Leo: Yeah, why would you do that?

Mary Jo: To rush everybody to upgrade for free.

Leo: And that´s why they´re saying that, but imagine the upset the day after when all of a sudden it´s $159 dollars.

Paul: But who, who are those people that 366 days later or whatever are suddenly now I really want to do it? What do mean they canceled the deal? I mean what is this audience, I don´t understand.

Leo: Well people aren´t paying attention, you see we pay attention you and I.

Paul: People who don´t pay attention deserve to be punished.

Leo: There lies the problem, it´s that mindset I think.

Mary Jo: So I´ll make another case of people who might delay, business users who want Pro, right? Say you´re a business user.

Leo: Because they don´t want to be and don´t want forced updates.

Mary Jo: Okay, say you´re on Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1 Pro right now, you´re a business customer, and Microsoft comes out with Windows 10 and you´re like, you know what I´m going to let people kick the tire first for a bit and see how this goes, I´m not ready to upgrade, or your company says you can´t upgrade for 2 years.

Paul: Yeah, by the way that will be a lot companies.

Leo: That´s very common, that´s probably the default position.

Mary Jo: That will be.

Paul: But if the plan is, so first of all this is a non Enterprise right, so this is a smaller business.

Mary Jo: Right, small business.

Leo: My business.

Paul: Your business and you know maybe that´s your attitude I don´t want to do this right away, let´s, but you know, 6 months right? Well you´re not going to wait a year because it´s not free after a year.

Mary Jo: Unless they extend the deal.

Leo: Which I think they will but they ain´t going to say anything until then right?

Paul: If your plan is to assume they´re going to change their policy, I mean this is just flawed you know, maybe they will but I don´t count on it.

Mary Jo: Microsoft´s idea is let´s get as many people to upgrade to Windows 10 as soon as we can right? That´s the game plan. The way to do that, make it free for a year.

Leo: I´m a gambling man, I´m going to wait. Actually I don´t know what we´re going to do you know it´s not really up to me, our IT guy Russell, I don´t know what his position will be on this. Frankly I would want to upgrade to 10 if I were out there, if I were one of the little people.

Paul: Yeah but that´s what the IT, The IT is the man to the little people, their job is to say no.

Leo: Yeah that´s his job, yeah.

Mary Jo: Here´s another group of people that might delay, Rich Woods is saying on Twitter, you know the people who want the place, holder replacement on OneDrive? And who´s going to stay with Windows 8, yep there´s that group of people, that group exists, those people will also not be in.

Leo: Put feature X here, you know I love the charms bar, there´s got to be, any given feature that they don´t want to give up. Our editors won´t because those machines, we have to make sure that premiere works as expected.

Paul: Right, right. So there has to be some kind of testing to make sure it´s okay, but if you´re relying on whatever, okay I get it, I get waiting, you know wait 10m or 11 months, just don´t, you know.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Leo: And they´re using Windows 8.1 by the way, they´re not using Windows 7.

Paul: By the way the question here, what if, we should know the price so in other words there´s all kinds of things that could happen, but let´s just say within the first month of RTM/GA we´re going to know what the upgrade cost is, what if it´s $40 bucks?

Leo: Oh then it´s no big deal.

Paul: Who cares? Then who cares, just wait.

Leo: If it´s under a hundred bucks.

Paul: If it´s $200 dollars then we know we have a problem.

Leo: Right, exactly.

Paul: The other thing is since we´re speculating, what the hell it´s fun, you know Microsoft might at that expiration of the one year say okay so now it´s not free the year has expired but now we have a special deal.

Leo: Right.

Paul: Upgrades are going to be half price for the next year or something. Maybe they will go up in price over time, the longer you wait the more you pay I don´t know, all kinds of things that could happen.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: Honestly, that OneDrive thing you just said was probably the best excuse I’ve heard so far.

Mary Jo: Yea, even the tri-caster says the same.

Leo: He tweeted.

Mary Jo: Waving hand, I’m one of those people that’s going to wait.

Leo: Tri-caster never gets upgraded, it was running Windows XP until recently.

Mary Jo: Yea, so.

Leo: There you go.

Mary Jo: There are people who need to wait, or want to wait, or are being forced to wait.

Leo: And for those people, we salute you.

Mary Jo: You’re not hasty decision makers.

Leo: Right. And the piracy thing, I think we now know.

Paul: After we’ve always known, but.

Leo: We’ve always known, there’s no amnesty program, this is not…

Paul: Nope, nothing has changed.

Leo: Come in from your

Paul: The only thing they said in that post though, I will say, there was one bit. Because I kind of printed the whole thing out, you know, not on paper, but, and then kind of commented on each section. And each time, it was like, yep, we already knew that, yep, I already knew that, yep, I already knew that. And then there was this line. It said, “In partnership with some of our valued OEM partners,” by which they mean PC makers, “we’re planning very attractive Windows 10 Upgrade offers for the customers running one of their older devices in a non-genuine state. Stay tuned to learn more from our partners on the specifics of their offers.” So, that’s sounds like the Lenovos, the HPs, the Dells of the world are going to reach out to customers of theirs who are running their hardware but have a non-genuine version of Windows on there, and they’re going to offer some kind of a special deal to get Windows 10 genuine version. Which sounds like something’s new. Something new. The thing is, they actually already offer this, by the way. Microsoft sells something to their partners called the Get Genuine Kit. And I would assume that this thing that their talking about is in fact just a Windows 10 version of that. So it may just be a new version of something that already exists. But that’s potentially new information.

Leo: I like that. Potentially new information.

Paul: Listen, I would love to have an answer to every question.

Leo: But that’s the show, that’s the job.

Paul: But I think I am literally being as precise as I can be.

Leo: Yea, no, you are. That’s all we ask. We do not ask more precision than you are capable of.

Paul: The fact that precise as I can be is humorous, is because you know, we come from Microsoft. But I don’t know what else to say, I mean it’s just, you know.

Leo: Now this was the one I thought was very interesting, and I really wanted to get your take on it. We talked about it on TWIT on Sunday, which is Microsoft basically saying, I think it was a blog post, “We are going to make sure all Windows Phones are up to date. And that’s our job. We’re going to update those.”

Paul: I’m not really sure they say that.

Leo: They implied it, I guess, but.

Paul: Here’s the thing, something magic hasn’t happened where the carriers get cut out of the picture.

Leo: Well, yea, it’s not like Microsoft has a lot of leverage against the carriers.

Paul: That’s what I mean. So, I mean, you know, we all want to believe this is true, and we wanted to believe it when the Windows Phone 7 came out.

Leo: But that’s how it is on the iPhone. But Steve Jobs negotiated stiff terms when the iPhone came out, and those terms have been preserved.

Paul: And by the way, being rejected by other carriers, finally Cingular said yes to everything that he demanded, the iPhone took off eventually, and now he sets, or Apple, sets the terms. There’s no going back, you know. Apple’s the only company that gets that deal.

Leo: But, why would, ok, so, certainly on Android, the carriers, there’s carrier specific stuff on every Android phone. There’s manufacture specific stuff on every Android phone, so when Android is updated, the first the manufacturers, and then the carriers have to do soak tests and updates, and blah, blah, blah, and often they don’t even bother updating. That’s one of the reasons…

Paul: I had a Samsung Galaxy S5 that was brand new about a year ago. It’s not on Android 5.anything. ‘

Leo: No.

Paul: In fact, it’s the only version of this phone that is not. If you have this on Verizon or T-Mobile or whatever, you got that update. I did not get it, I’m on AT&T.

Leo: If you have a Note 4, you’re hoping you didn’t get the update because it broke them, but that’s another matter.

Paul: Ok, but you know, great. So, that’s just the way this goes. And so…

Leo: But the Lumias, well maybe they mean Lumia.

Paul: Doesn’t matter if it’s a Lumia. Unless Microsoft sells it to you directly, sans contract, unlocked, they can’t bypass the carriers to deliver these kinds of updates.

Leo: Why? Can’t they just push the data down, I mean, why do the carriers have to get involved? I see if it went over carriers’ networks.

Paul: Because the carrier is the one that has the agreement with Microsoft to sell that device, and part of that agreement is they get to call the shots. Because they don’t want certain things on the network. It doesn’t matter if this doesn’t make any sense, by the way. I want to be really clear. It doesn’t matter if what the carriers want…

Leo: There’s no technical, there’s no technical reason for it.

Paul: There’s absolutely no technical reason, because a lot of people will say, “Well, I mean why not just let it go over Wi-Fi?” To which I would say, “Absolutely, why not?” Because carriers, that’s why not. You know, we’ll see. I don’t understand in this day and age, I’ve said this a million times I think, every single day, on any phone, I don’t care what kind of phone you have, Windows Phone, Android, iOS, you’re updating tens of hundreds of megabytes, possibly more, app updates, every single day. You can do that over your cellular network, you can do that over Wi-Fi. For some reason, no one has a problem with this. These apps could do, their sandboxed, I get it, but as far as them consuming data and doing stuff over cellular, they have those permissions, they can abuse the network in various ways. No one has ever tried to stop this from happening. But Microsoft wants to ship a security update for Windows Phone, or a functional update to a cross component, and suddenly that’s a problem. And I don’t understand it. I completely agree and understand why people are disgruntled over this, and I, what can I tell you? All I know is these companies supposedly test these updates, Microsoft has provided them with a lot of data, I think the plan going forward is to provide them with Windows Insider users, who are using that app to update early, and say, “Look, it went to x number of users, no one’s had any problems on all of the devices that are on your network, please release the update.” And I’m telling you, they have never done anything that they’ve said they were going to do, and they’ve never done the right thing. So I don’t understand why we thing they’re going to change now. I feel like a broken record, this is me from 2010. I’ve had this argument with Microsoft.

Leo: And they’ve never, and it’s never happened before. You were right, you’ve been right all along.

Paul: It’s never…

Mary Jo: It’s a goal, right. I think that’s the thing. Microsoft…

Paul: Inner peace is a goal, sure.

Leo: Making that announcement, and I mean, am I wrong, did I misread it? It felt like they made that announcement, no?

Paul: In January they said, it would have been Terry Myerson who said something to this effect on stage, because we asked them about it, remember, when we were heading over to do Windows Weekly?

Mary Jo: Right.

Paul: And they said to us that they have a plan, and that they will reveal more information later. I think the insinuation was at Build.

Mary Jo: And then at Ignite, actually, when they announced Windows Update for Business, in that blog post they said, “Microsoft’s new continuous update policy will apply to all devices including phones.”

Leo: Yes, that’s the one I’m talking about.

Mary Jo: But, they never said how, like how is it going to work?

Paul: If you have bought a phone from, let’s just use AT&T, the punching bag of the moment, if your company is using AT&T, and you’ve deployed Lumia’s whatever’s they are to your workforce for some reason, that company doesn’t exist, but let’s just pretend, what a perfect world that would be, Microsoft is delivering updates through Windows Update, through Windows Update for Business, it doesn’t matter, for phone. I still think the carrier isn’t going to be into that chain, Microsoft will have come through on their end of their agreement, Windows Insiders will get it because they have that app on their phone. And I don’t think they’ll be able to ship it to the phones of the general populous, I really don’t, unless the, I think the carrier’s still the final lock on the last door.

Mary Jo: The way they can say they’re doing this is to do it through Insider, right, Windows Insider Program. They can push it to people in the Insider Program and say, “See, we’re not being hamstrung by the carriers, we’re giving it right to you.” But that’s, as far as I understand, that’s a preview release at that point, that’s not a final, right?

Paul: Aren’t there also questions about whether that breaks the warranty on your phone?

Mary Jo: Yea. There are questions about that. At WinHec China, Microsoft talked about this thing called Project Milky Way that the goal, it was slight to OEMs, and it said, “Our goal is to delight users by keeping their mobile devices updated to the latest release within four to six weeks of when we release a feature.” So they had a whole plan on how to do this. But, even that plan seems to imply that somehow carriers are going to be part of that.

Paul: By the way, it doesn’t just imply it, there’s a slide that shows it. There’s a green box.

Mary Jo: The one that says “validate OTA updates on retail phones.”

Paul: Right, those green boxes, the green means not Microsoft partners. And partners aren’t just hardware makers, partners are also the carriers. Validate over the air updates on retail phones. In other words, it’s not getting pushed to the production server until that step happens, and that’s where the wireless carrier gets in the way. I don’t think anything’s changed, I really don’t. I really don’t think anything’s changed.

Mary Jo: I think they, just like before, they would love to have this happen. They would love to be able to go around the carriers because the carriers have just been holding all of us hostage with these updates. And they know it, and we know it. And the goal is to get everybody on the same, most up-to-date release. But, as long as the carriers, in that diagram?

Paul: The carrier business model does not coincide with what is best for us as users and what is best for Microsoft as the maker of the platform.

Leo: You said a mouthful there.

Paul: Right? I mean, what they want is for you to be unhappy that your phone is not being updated so you get a new phone. If you go to them, they’ll say, “Here’s an idea.” Let’s use AT&T again. “We have this program called Next. And using Next you can tack a little bit of extra money on to your plan every month, and you can get a new phone every year,” or whatever the timeframe is, there’s probably a few choices. “So, don’t worry about getting updates on your Lumia, because, after one year, you can move along to a Lumia something else, you can move onto an iPhone,” which, by the way, gets updates all the time, “or an Android device.” You can take your chances there, as well. And, they’re making money when they do that. That’s their interests being pushed forward, and our interests being pushed aside. I just don’t see any reason why it doesn’t happen that way.

Mary Jo: Yea, you know, and then to kind of close loop on this, WinBeta went back to Microsoft when these reports through Ed Bott and other people came out saying, you know, Microsoft is going to cut the delay out, they said, Microsoft said to WinBeta, “We will continue to work closely with mobile operators on testing to meet and exceed quality bars.” So they’re saying they’re still in the picture.

Paul: They have to be.

Mary Jo: If they are, I don’t see what Microsoft can do to stop the delay.

Paul: So, here’s one thing they can do. They can sell phones directly through the Microsoft store unlocked. You know, this hasn’t been a gangbuster deal for Google, you know they do that with the Nexus line of phones or whatever, but this is, they could at least say, you know, and by the way, they already, they sort of do this with PCs, signature PCs and service. It’s sort of the PC analog to this, right? Here are they phones, you got them from us, there’s no crap-ware on them, it doesn’t matter, Windows Phone, you can get rid of crap-ware, but you’re not locked to a carrier. And if they’re smart, they’ll make these things with multiple, you know, radios so they work everywhere, on phone, not multiple phones. The Windows Phone Business model right now is such that, at least with Lumia, they basically sell the same phone to different carriers, and it’s like these little, mini exclusives, they change the model number a little bit, they sometimes use dual SIMs, sometimes it’s LT, sometimes it’s LT with dual SIMs, sometimes it’s a different size screen, it’s really the same stuff. They change the version number a little bit, they give everyone, you know, a special version of the same thing. And it creates a bunch of different, like slightly different, stupid phones all over the place. They could just have a smaller set of phones, unlocked, no contract, multiple carriers for it, bring your own SIM. You know?

Mary Jo: Can the carriers still stop updates, that way, though?

Paul: No, they can’t.

Mary Jo: So right now, if you have an unlocked phone, and you’re on, say, AT&T, when Microsoft pushes out an update, don’t you have to wait until your carrier pushes it to you? Unless you’re on the developer program?

Paul: So we don’t actually technically have these types of phones today. So if I go to Expansys, right, and I buy, and what I’m buying is a phone that was unlocked from, actually I don’t know how they get it unlocked, we don’t really, technically have the thing I’m asking for, but that phone’s from somewhere, right? And so I get that, you get the update from based on whatever, wherever it’s from. So, the 930 here that I just bought, that was a Thailand based phone, it’s not associated with a particular carrier in Thailand, but it is a Thailand based phone. When Thailand got the Lumia Denim update, I got it.

Leo: Same thing for me, my 1520 is from Singapore I think.

Paul: Yea, so I think I remember this.

Leo: Or Latin America. No, it’s Latin American, and now I don’t know where the hell it’s from.

Paul: But when you first got it, that update wasn’t available.

Leo: No, right.

Paul: Then at some point, they shipped it to Latin America, whatever schedule. So, I think…

Leo: And this doesn’t mean, this doesn’t include like bug fixes and errors and stuff? They’re going to fix those.

Paul: It should include everything. I mean, you know, supposedly, you know, they’re aren’t really, they’re certainly no big public instances of this. But if Microsoft were to discover a zero day attack that was affected on Windows Phone. Presumably, they could go to the carriers and say, “Look, this is some kind of exception, you need to let us push this update out. We know you need to test it, but, this is important. It’s not about delivering a new calendar or something stupid.” It’s, presumably that’s part of their agreement. I seem to remember there being some language to that effect. But I don’t actually think that’s ever happened, right? I, what they really need is, is the ability to just bypass these companies altogether. And I think selling them directly, they have everything in place, they already do it with Surfaces. They aren’t the same thing, obviously, there’s no wireless carrier in the way, but, you know, you make the phones, you have a store, hmm. Just do that. I guess the problem would be if they ever did that, it’s possible that some group of wireless carriers might then come to them and say, “Well, congratulations on your new phone venture. We’re not going to be selling anymore of your phones.” Directly to consumers.

Leo: Oh, there’s plenty of ways they can screw with them.

Mary Jo: Yea, they can.

Paul: Oh, yea, yea, they’re good at that. That’s the one thing they are really good at.

Leo: And it’s probably, it’s even a contractual violation, I mean, you know, you can’t just, you just can’t abrogate a contract, you have to honor it.

Paul: In the old days Microsoft would have done that in a heartbeat, you know?

Leo: (laughing) we’re Microsoft! Who are you?

Paul: Let’s pretend we don’t miss that a little bit.

Leo: Right, what kind of company is that?

Paul: Here’s what I think of your contract! You can shower in my contract! I don’t know.

Mary Jo: Yea.

Leo: Well, at least I can get Candy Crush Saga, thank God.

Mary Jo: Woohoo!

Paul: You know what the big unanswered question about Candy Crush Saga is?

Leo: What is the big unanswered question? Is there one? What is it?

Paul: Is this only for Windows 10 on PCs or is it also for Windows Phones?

Leo: This is the, this is the one they showed where it was the port from iOS, right?

Mary Jo: Yep.

Leo: And how easy it was to do that. But don’t those ports update?

Paul: But that’s on phone, though. This is actually, I don’t think this app is available yet on Windows 10 for PCs, is it?

Leo: Oh, I see.

Mary Jo: This says Candy Crush has been written for Windows Phone, right? And then it says, it says, “Microsoft will bundle Candy Crush Saga with Windows 10.” It doesn’t say…

Leo: It’s bundled?

Mary Jo: It’s bundled.

Leo: I’m so excited! Instead of Minesweeper…

Mary Jo: Some people will be. They’re not the people who want Microsoft to bundle Hadoop, I can tell you that. Not those people.

Leo: You search for Candy Crush Saga on the Window’s 10 Store, you get a lot of crapola stuff, which is like, Strategy Guide, Ultimate Cheats, Tricks.

Paul: I don’t think it’s out yet, I think that’s the point. It’s not actually out yet. So in other words, at some point right after the release of Windows 10, you’re going to, I mean I can only imagine, I don’t know how they’re going to deliver it. Either in a Windows Update which would be infuriating, or they will just be like an auto-update to the store or something, I have no idea.

Mary Jo: Maybe it could be with the RTM.

Paul: The good news is, it’s a universal app, you can get rid of it.

Mary Jo: It could be on the RTM, why not?

Leo: It’s just a sign of the times.

Paul: If you read the actual announcement, I don’t believe that it is in Windows. It, they describe how you get Windows 10, and then it appears on your computer, I think it’s something downloaded.

Leo: It’s a sign of the times, instead of Spider Solitaire and Minesweeper, we’ll get Candy Crush Saga and, I don’t know, Angry Birds. You got to figure, you know, Candy Crush Saga’s free. So it’s not like it’s such a great deal, you can get it in three seconds.

Paul: I, yes.

Leo: I would bet it’s a profit deal.

Mary Jo: Me too.

Leo: That the guys at Candy Crush said, “How much would it cost to make sure that every version of Windows ships with this?”

Paul: Let me give you my imagined story of how this happened, and you will agree immediately that this is almost certainly what happened. Microsoft went to them and said, “Hey, we’re developing this software that will let you port iOS apps and games to Windows Phone, we’d like to try it on Candy Crush Saga.” And they said, “That’s hilarious. Why would we do that, nobody uses Windows Phone.” And they were like, “Well, maybe there’s some other way we can come to an agreement.” And the agreement was, “I have an idea, how about you make this part, you just give it away to everyone who has Windows 10?” They probably said something to those guys like, “Our goal is to have Windows 10 go out to a billion people.” And they were like, “Really? Well, now we can talk. How about we give it away to those billion people?” I’m pretty sure that’s what happened. This game is three years, is over three years old now.

Leo: According to Edward Snowden, there’s maybe another reason for putting Candy Crush Saga on Windows 10. According to Snowden, the NSA uses Candy Crush and Angry Birds to leak your location information to the National Security Agency. How about that?

Paul: That’s awesome. Well, they know where I am now, I’m recording a podcast, you can see my house back there.

Leo: Alright, alright, alright. Enough of that. By the way, we may actually have that moment where the machine I’m working on reboots the Windows 10 Update. What is the fbl stand for, fbl_impressive.

Paul: It’s like flight build lab, underscore impressive is the, the flight of builds, I guess that where on.

Leo: It’s not the Facebook Library or something?

Paul: No.

Leo: No, that would be wrong. 64% Gosh, there’s so much more. Let’s not slow down, Leo, let’s keep moving. Windows 10 on Raspberry Pi 2, that’s…

Paul: Oh, this one will be quick.

Leo: How is that?

Paul: Because there’s not much to say.

Leo: Ok.

Paul: You basically, you download an image of Windows IOT core, you put it onto an SD card in a very particular fashion, plug it into your Raspberry Pi device, boot the thing off of it and it boots to a, something called Default App, which is just has a screen that shows you the name of the machine and an IP address. It kind of just lets you know it’s up and running. There’s no desktop.

Leo: So there’s no GUI? There’s no GUI, right?

Paul: Yea, so the point of this is that what you will do on another machine on your network is get Visual Studio 2015 going, you’ll create a universal app, and you’ll run it to that hardware. And as you, you know, build the project and it will run, and you’ll see it on that screen. And then you can do whatever it is you have to do. The goal here is not to create a full, running Windows environment, these things are going to be typical, typically going to be, you know, single use type of things. Microsoft has all these examples of things like, you know, Weather Stations, little kind of goofy sensor type things, and I think there’s going to be a lot of that. But I actually think, it’s going to be possible for people to do, you know, to make like a Roku type device with one of these ports, where you create the interface that runs a couple of different apps or something.

Leo: Yea, well, you can already do it with other operating systems, so it’s just…

Paul: There’s going to be all kinds of that kind of stuff, so.

Leo: When do we get Windows Media Center for Raspberry Pi 2? Just joking, I’m just teasing.

Mary Jo: Don’t get their hopes up.

Leo: I’m a teaser.

Paul: That wound is still a little sore.

Leo: Oh, and there’s still rumors flying, you know, that there is going to be a Windows Media Center for Xbox One, kind of an all crazy stuff.

Paul: I think that’s just called Xbox One.

Leo: That is a media center. Touch First Office apps for Android Phones. They’re out.

Mary Jo: They’re out. Preview.

Leo: What do you think?

Mary Jo: Paul? I haven’t tried them.

Paul: Oh, is that mine? So, when you think about all the places that Microsoft has gone with Office on the mobile devices, right, iPad I think was first, iPhone, Android tablets, preview and then non-preview. Obviously Windows and Windows Phone are in there, in the Windows 10 timeframe, and we have preview versions of those. And the last one, the missing piece was Android handsets, phones. And so, until yesterday, I think it was, basically what you had was an Office Mobile App, which worked like Office App on Windows Phone, where it’s just an Office, one app, and you could access Word, Excel and PowerPoint from within that app. As of now, we have preview versions of the stand-alone Office Apps. And so, PowerPoint, Word and Excel in stand-alone form, just like we do on every other platform. So, if you’re familiar with it on iPhone or on Windows 10 Mobile for phones, basically the same set of apps, same set of capabilities, plus or minus whatever things are specific to the platforms. So, not a lot to say there, just that they’re out now in preview.

Leo: Do I have to sign up or do something special to get it, or is it just in the store?

Paul: You actually have to go to the Google+ page for Office, which you had to do for the tablet version as well. And then they’ll give you…

Leo: You join a community, this is actually fairly common, I think this might even be…

Paul: Like on Google, you mean?

Leo: You go to Google+ I just did this for Hyperlapse for, Microsoft Hyperlapse.

Mary Jo: They’re going to do what they are going to do.

Paul: No, good for them. And I don’t mean that in a jerky way, it’s …

Leo: You’re a jerk. Come on.

Paul: Leo, I know.

Leo: Hyperlapse. Hyperlapse is awesome on Android, I just want to say.

Paul: Hyperlapse, the Microsoft thing?

Leo: Microsoft Hyperlapse, they’re, you know, whatever. It’s not…

Paul: It should have been a pick. We never did that as a pick, did we?

Mary Jo: No we didn’t.

Leo: We can pick it now, because it’s now available on Android.

Paul: Yea. That’s a good one.

Leo: I’d pick it. I’ll show you.

Paul: I pick it regularly.

Leo: I pick it all the time, I’ll show you, I’ll demonstrate it. Because Jason Howell did a really good one for All About Android last night. I liked it.

Paul: I should have done a Hyperlapse of my entire drive across the country. It would have been, like, thirty minutes long, but it would have been really condensed down from four days.

Leo: Yea, see the USA, the Hyperlapse-y way! Da-da-da-da-da.

Paul: Yep. I wish the drive through Kansas was that quick.

Leo: I am intrigued by the notion that Microsoft is reinventing e-mail for iOS. I find that intriguing. Do you want to talk about that a little?

Mary Jo: Yea. So, Microsoft is seemingly, I’m saying seemingly because this information comes from a leaked page that our friend Walking Cat on Twitter found. It’s a new lightweight e-mail application called Flow that is not meant, supposedly, to be a replacement for Outlook. It’s meant to be a complement for it. So it’s almost like a chat app from the description that you can, you can use, it’s still e-mail, but you can go without subject lines or salutations or signatures, you can just have this conversation with one other person and it will be part of your Outlook e-mail. You’ll be able to search that particular conversation separately, Exchange will be on the back end. But it’s meant to be kind of not Outlook. Like something lighter than Outlook, an alternative for people who might, you know, gravitate to other messaging platforms or other chat or social networking.

Leo: This is not a new idea, it’s not a new idea on iOS, in fact.

Mary Jo: It’s not new.

Leo: Doesn’t Microsoft have another product called Flow, or am I wrong? No? Ok. I thought they did.

Mary Jo: They have another product, this is what I likened it to. They have something called Skype Qik, which is a video chat app that’s meant to be a lightweight chat app, similar to what you do with SMS or IM but for video. And I think Flow is like Skype Qik except it’s for e-mail. That’s kind of how I’m explaining it when I try to explain it.

Leo: Now it’s not out yet, right, I shouldn’t go looking for it?

Mary Jo: It’s not out yet, but the leaked page says it’s going to be out for iPhone.

Leo: Well, that’s what everybody uses, isn’t it? I mean…

Mary Jo: Not everybody. Everybody who’s anybody. Except us who are in the three percent.

Leo: That’s what everybody else is using.

Paul: Screw you, Laporte!

Mary Jo: We don’t know when or if it’s coming also to Windows Phone or Android. Microsoft’s not talking about it yet. But my guess would be it would come to all of the platforms.

Paul: Just like Sway did.

Leo: Yea. All the platforms.

Mary Jo: Someday, someday.

Leo: Someday my Sway will come. I’ll look forward to this. And Paul has a little piece on Microsoft’s secret plan.

Paul: Well, in other words, no, ok. It’s, it makes sense that they would take their traditional products and move them to mobile devices, right? And some people consider that kind of shocking, right, when they put Office on iPad. A lot of people were like “What are you doing, what are you doing?” I think that makes sense, but you know, that’s not enough. If all Microsoft was going to do was ship a bunch of their old stuff on new platforms, that’s not necessarily enough. And so with things like Office Mix and Office Sway, Skype Qik, like Mary Jo said, or this new Flow add-on for Outlook, this is giving us clues to the new Microsoft, you know, that’s not just about old ways of doing things, what about these new ways of doing things? Like what are the new productivity things that we could, you know, problems that we could solve? And I think that’s what they’re doing. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. I think this is a, kind of a small indication of a wider trend.

Mary Jo: And they’re all short, short product names that can be used.

Paul: That’s what I was just trying to find, so Mary Jo, shared earlier today.

Leo: Sway, Flow.

Paul: We shared a bunch of names that would be potential Microsoft product names. The ones that Mary Jo came up with were Fold, Stir, Broil and Bake.

Mary Jo: You can tell I can cook.

Paul: Leo came up with Thud, Dud, Wah.

Leo: Plop. Microsoft Plop. Microsoft Thud.

Paul: I’m running Microsoft Thud on my iPhone.

Leo: I like it, it’s snappy. It’s snappy, it’s quick.

Paul: It’s like a, it’s like getting hit in the face with a brick.

Leo: It’s a, well, I mean, it’s kind of, I think this is actually, this is the future.

Paul: This is the future.

Leo: This is the future. Short, four letter words.

Paul: We’re going to talk about two things on this podcast in the future. One, there are going to be crazy cloud services that use Hadoop, and the second one is making stupid little mobile apps with four letter names. I’m using Weak. Oh, God, the life.

Leo: Wow! Well, I don’t know what’s next because unfortunately I’m installing Windows. And apparently it’s only 1% done.

Paul: We have a lot left, what’s going on here?

Leo: I know, this is the longest, would you whip through them? I’m just going to sit back and watch the percentages go up while you…

Paul: Well, most of this stuff isn’t all that important. I mean, there’s a universal app version of Dropbox, right, that shipped on Windows Phone and Windows. Firmware updates for Surface Pro 2 and 3, that actually for some reason were released on Windows 10 a week ago, which is kind of hilarious.

Mary Jo: Are those the same? Updates, I was curious.

Paul: I believe so, because the, the video driver was one of them, yea. Surface 3 got their Windows 10 drivers, so it, when I first got the device, and I put the BETA on, there were two devices missing in device manager. Now those are accounted for. Want to take the rest of these?

Mary Jo: Lumia 640 now in the US. Woohoo!

Paul: There you go.

Mary Jo: Not the usual low-end crap, is Paul’s note.

Leo: Oh, you like the 640?

Paul: Actually the 640 is a pretty decent phone. It’s a mid-level phone, it’s cheap, it’s $120 bucks off contract, and it’s locked on Cricket, but it’s coming to T-Mobile soon as well. It’s not bad. It’s not like, they have a lot of low end phones. This one’s a step up, it’s pretty decent.

Mary Jo: This next one on our list, I didn’t even know about. So that’s yours, Paul. The encryption.

Paul: So, Obama was, President Obama was having a meeting I guess, yesterday, to start the discussion about what the United States was going to do, if anything, about policy regarding encryption in US based computer products, right. This all started because Apple last year decided to ship encryption by default. Which a lot of law enforcement people complained about. Are you’re getting bombarded by birds or something?

Mary Jo: No, I was just like…

Leo: Is there a guy on the ledge out there, what’s going on?

Mary Jo: There’s always weird sounds in my building that I’m curious about.

Paul: So there’s some guy, is going to swing through your window, you know?

Mary Jo: I know.

Leo: Aoooahooo!

Mary Jo: There’s so many weird sounds.

Paul: So anyway, the point of this is simply that major tech companies, clearly Microsoft, Apple and Google have all asked the president to not do something stupid like restrict the use of encryption, require some kind of a back door so that law enforcement can get into the devices and so forth. We’ll see what happens there. And I just, I wrote this up because I really care about music services, and I spend a lot of, in fact I have a software pick related to this, but, you know, I see these deals, and I see, Spotify again had another announcement today like Leo said, about advancing into video.

Leo: Yea, it’s a big announcement, because we’re in it.

Paul: And I have to think, you know, if Microsoft isn’t serious about Xbox Music to the point where they have apps on Android and iOS but they kind of stink, and they don’t, you never see stuff like this, and there are these stories where people will do like a roundup of internet streaming services, and Xbox Music is never part of it, right? And now, Starbucks has got it in to, what is still sort of an Apple partner, but will be a former Apple partner soon, and they’re in Starbucks. And so they’re going to be doing the music in Starbucks, they’re going to be giving away free premium accounts to all Starbucks’ employees. It’s kind of a major deal. I mean, it’s a distribution point with like 7,000 retail locations in the United States alone, and then they go into Canada and the UK as well. And so, this is a service that is, I think is 60 million users?

Leo: Yes.

Paul: And they’re just making moves

Leo: And by the way, it’s not just Spotify, because Apple’s about to come out with their service in about a month.

Paul: Yes.

Leo: This is, you know, Jay-Z’s title, nobody mentions Xbox Music anymore.

Paul: No, never.

Leo: You got Amazon and Google and they’re all …

Paul: In fact, I’m no longer even infuriated by that. Nobody even knows it exists. Well, Mary Jo does, Mary Jo and I are two of the only people that have Xbox Music.

Mary Jo: We’re the two users.

Paul: You’ve got to either go in or go home, like you’re doing it or you’re not. And, you know, they’re never mentioned anywhere. Even Microsoft doesn’t really mention it. They came up with the new Work and Play package and Xbox was passive, isn’t even part of it. They don’t offer family subscriptions, you know, they don’t even have something as simple as dynamic play lists in Xbox Music. Kind of a fairly basic feature, which, by the way, Zune Music had ten years ago, well, 9 years ago. I don’t know. It’s a little frustrating.

Leo: You know, it may be that Satya Nadella just really has a tin ear. It may be that they’re going to focus on their core businesses, this is a different genre, you know?

Paul: Sure. But the problem is there are people using it. And I rather have some clarity on this, and if this is not a priority, if this is not something they’re going to…

Leo: Then tell us.

Paul: They do improve it. The funny thing is, I like the app, I like it on Windows Phone 8 or 8.1 or whatever. I like it. I use it every day. I just, it just feels like it’s kind of in some weird limbo, though.

Leo: Sigh.

Paul: Alright, so you can’t still see the notes? Is that correct?

Leo: I’m almost, I’m seconds away.

Mary Jo: Ready for the back of the book.

Leo: I’m ready for the back of the book. Alright, let’s take a break, and as soon as the book gets back we will have Windows 10. Can I talk about Braintree? And I’m not talking about Braintree, Mass., up the road a bit from Dedham. But I bet you that’s where they started. I’m just thinking, that’s probably why they call themselves Braintree. It’s actually, though, you could say it’s because it’s really smart and it’s like a money tree where you just shake it and money comes out for you. If you’re a mobile developer, Braintree. You’re going to love it. The payment solution. It’s used by the biggest and best in the business. Uber and Lift. Right there, that tells you something. Airbnb and Hotel Tonight. Living Social. GitHub actually started with Braintree and Braintree scaled right up with them. From your first dollar to your billionth, Braintree has made payment experiences seamless and magical for so many and now you can do the same. With excellent customer service, simple integration, Braintree gets you ready to receive payments quickly. And Braintree’s continuous support, fast payouts means you’re going to be prepared as your company grows from your first dollar to your billionth dollar, they’re just awesome. By the way, there’s a big, I can’t remember what the number is, I think it’s 70% of mobile carts are abandoned at checkout. So, somebody goes to all the trouble to go through your app, pick out stuff, put it in the cart, goes to the cart and then 70%, 7 out of 10 customers walk away because it’s too hard, too complicated. Or they don’t want to enter a credit card number or whatever, and that’s why your mobile payment solution is so important. And Braintree is really addressing that issue of mobile cart abandonment. They have the best checkout experience anywhere. They take payments from Apple Pay, from PayPal, Bitcoin, Venmo, or course credit cards. They make it seamless and magical for you and your customers. So I want you to try it. It’s a full stack payment solution. All payment types across the board, superior fraud protection, customer service, fast payouts, and if this weren’t enough, I’m going to get you your first $50,000 in payment fee free. $50,000 in transactions fee free. You were right, Paul. This is, go down the road from Paul, turn left on Route 128 and there it is.

Paul: That’s fairly accurate.

Leo: Everything’s turn left on Route 128. Or unless you go by 95. But I like the Mass. turnpike myself.

Paul: Well, actually, for that stretch of road they’re the same.

Leo: Yea. It’s got the little pilgrim’s hat with the arrow through it. I always thought that that was really kind of a counter-productive logo.

Paul: Oh, that’s the Mass. Turnpike.

Leo: That’s the Mass. Turnpike. I don’t, it seems like that’s something, what? Do you really want to emphasize that point?

Paul: It’s sending mixed messages.

Leo: It’s a little mixed, it’s a little mixed.

Paul: My favorite part about Windows, I’m sorry, not Windows, about Route 128 is that when you go south on 128, which is south of 95, and then 95 veers off and you’re still on 128 going south, but now you’re also on 93 going north? Welcome to Massachusetts.

Leo: That’s it, right in a nutshell.

Paul: It’s like, makes no sense at all.

Leo: Have you ever tried to drive in Boston, my God, insane.

Paul: Yep.

Mary Jo: It is.

Leo: Insane.

Paul: Well, at least there’s great signs everywhere, so you’re fine.

Leo: (laughing) I have such memories of being lost in Boston.

Paul: I told you about the state trooper, right, with the directions? I told you this story?

Leo: No, well, tell it again.

Paul: He said, “What do I look like, Rand F-ing McNally?”

Leo: Rand F-ing McNally.

Paul: When I asked him for directions.

Leo: Officer, how do I get to, Faneuil, Faneuil, how do you pronounce that, Faneuil Hall?

Paul: Fan-oil.

Mary Jo: Fan-oil Hall.

Leo: Fan-oil Hall. What do I look like, f-ing, Rand McNally?

Paul: State Trooper, your tax dollars at work.

Leo: Find it yourself. What he’s really saying is “I got no idea.”

Paul: Yea, he has no idea.

Leo: I got no idea.

Paul: Actually his eventual advice was to drive into the tunnel with all the signs in front of it that said, “Don’t drive into the tunnel.” I’m serious.

Leo: See that big thing over there? Just go.

Paul: Don’t worry about the signs, just go.

Leo: What could possibly go wrong? Tip of the week from Paul Thurrott.

Paul: Crazy.

Leo: Crazy.

Paul: So, I mentioned that I’m probably going to be splitting the Windows 10 book into like a mobile book and a non-mobile book, right? And so, one of the little side things about this is that I’ve never completed the Windows Phone 8.1 book. I’ve just got, there’s just too much to do, I think, especially with moving to the new site this year. So, I think I’m going to skip over that, and what I’m going to do instead is detail a bunch of stuff that’s new between 8.1 and 8, right? If you update from Windows Phone from 8 to 8.1. And so this week I started doing some of that stuff. This is stuff that was in the book, or it was going to be in the book. And so, the first three right now, and it’s basically kind of really neat Windows 8, Windows Phone 8.1 features that are differentiated from previous versions. Wi-Fi Sense, Storage Sense and Data Sense. And I’ll do one on Battery Sense next, but Data Sense is, or I should say, these Sense apps are mostly settings apps, although confusingly one of them isn’t, and they allow you to do such things as you know, monitor your data usage, limit your data usage over cellular, you know, jump over to Wi-Fi networks automatically, the Wi-Fi Sense features a cool feature where there are over a million public hot spots that require some kind of authentication, you know, you go to a web page, you put in a name, a phone number, maybe an e-mail address, and then it will let you onto the network. It will actually auto log you onto those networks using bogus data, which is kind of hilarious. And then the, Storage Sense, which lets you manage the data on the device, which is particularly important if you have, well are running out of space so you can figure out what it is. Or, if you have an SD card and you want to do things like, well, I was using the internal storage for apps and for data, for music and you know, other things, I want to move that stuff over from the card, this app gives you the capability to do that. And so, just basically, these are the first three, there’s going to be a bunch more of these, and I’ll be doing these over the next few weeks. So, if you’re using Windows Phone, just stay tuned to this site, and there will be more. And then the software pick actually, I like your idea of Hyperlapse. I should have had that, so I’ll just add that as one. Hyperlapse is available, I think it’s actually on all, is it on all three, iOS, Android and Windows Phone now, is that correct?

Leo: Yea, I think so, I think so. I think Android was the last. So you’ll have to do that thing.

Paul: You have to do that Google+ community thing, yep, yep. I did a short one of going through the car wash, it’s on You Tube. It’s one of the most popular videos on You Tube, it’s a really fast trip through a car wash. It’s a cool app, I like it. I don’t have an extreme skiing video I can use, so I’ve got my car wash. But the other pick I had is MixRadio, and you remember, you might remember MixRadio, it started as Nokia MixRadio and it was a streaming music service that was only available on Lumia handsets. And then Microsoft bought Nokia, and MixRadio came over with that. And at the time I was thinking, Microsoft should use this as part of Xbox Music. It has functionality that Xbox Music lacks, and then they sold it off. And so Line bought MixRadio, and no huge surprise, but this week Line released versions of MixRadio for both iOS and Android.

Leo: Line is a messaging app, very popular in Asia.

Paul: So the good news is, they have pledged and promised not to ignore Windows Phone, that as they update the application, they’re going to update it on Windows Phone as well. It’s a free service, it even had offline capabilities for free. It has handcrafted music mixes like radio station, long before Beats was ever a thing they were doing the same thing, on other words, human beings, music experts actually creating these mixes. It’s a great little app. I mean, in the sense that you don’t just have to have one music app on your phone. I mean I think this is one regardless of what phone you have, you should give it a shot, you should check it out. It’s a great little app.

Leo: It must be frustrating, though. It must be frustrating, though.

Paul: What’s that?

Leo: Well, that it was Microsoft and now it’s not.

Paul: I wish they had kept it. I really like MixRadio, and I liked, as it was Nokia first, well, let’s say, when it was Nokia, I watched it, you know, be updated and improved over time. And I really liked where it was heading, and I still do. But it’s of slightly of less interest to kind of Microsoft watchers because it’s not Microsoft anymore. But it’s a great app. And you should definitely check it out.

Leo: Is it, you do have to subscribe, right, I mean, is it?

Paul: You can, but you don’t have to.

Leo: Oh. Ok, cool. That is your pick.

Paul: If you do, it’s cheap. I think, I don’t subscribe but I want to say it’s like, I think it’s like $3.99/month or something.

Leo: Oh, that’s a good deal.

Paul: Yea, it’s not expensive.

Leo: MixRadio. Our Enterprise pick of the week comes to us from Mary Jo Foley.

Mary Jo: My pick of the week is something called a convenience roll-up. And convenience roll-ups are packages of hot fixes that Microsoft makes available every once in a while where they take like seventy hot fixes that they issued over a number of months, they roll them all up, you can install them as a single package, and only have to re-boot once, I believe. So, Microsoft issued a few of these over the past couple of years. There was one back in 2013 that we heard about called Slow Boot, Slow Log-in Hot Fix Roll Up, that was 90 hot fixes for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008.

Leo: These are what they used to call service packs, right?

Mary Jo: They used to call, they are very similar to service packs, yes.

Pail: It’s a convenience.

Mary Jo: It’s a convenience to you and me to get these. Right. So now, here’s the big news. There’s going to be another one of these for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 coming sometime around the release of Windows 10. I don’t know how many hot fixes that thing’s going to roll up, but supposedly quite a few. And Microsoft is billing it as, if you’re on Windows 7 Service Pack 1, Windows Server 2008 R2, you’re going to want to apply this convenience update when it comes out to help you get ready for Windows 10. But even if you’re really not getting ready for Windows 10 it will be a much more convenient way for you to get all those hot fixes and apply them at once. So the idea is to watch out for this upcoming convenience update sometime in the next couple months.

Leo: Alright. Cool. Got a code name for us?

Mary Jo: I do. Another one, I’m not quite sure how to pronounce it. It’s Ticino, maybe? T-I-C-I-N-O.

Leo: If it’s Italian, it would be Ticino.

Mary Jo: It’s Swiss.

Leo: Oh, I don’t know.

Mary Jo: Yea, Switzerland. So Ticino is a Swiss canton which means a federal state, I guess. And that is the code name for what became Visual Studio Code. Visual Studio Code is the light weight editor that Microsoft rolled out recently for Mac, Linux and Windows. And the reason it’s code named Ticino, this is kind of interesting, is the team that supposedly engineered code is based in the Microsoft Zurich office.

Leo: Well, they probably know how to pronounce it.

Mary Jo: They might know how to pronounce it. And I have to say thanks to Jublo Solutions, one of my Twitter buddies, for that tip.

Leo: Good. Good, good, good. And finally, a beer. Give me beer.

Mary Jo: A beer. This is a beer Paul Thurrott has to find because he would love this beer. It’s from Bells Brewing in Michigan. It’s called the Wild One. It’s wild ale slash sour beer. And if you know what Flemish red beers are, very similar to that.

Leo: Like Shamai Red, is it like that?

Mary Jo: Kind of like that, yep. So, it’s, this is a sour brown ale that they age in oak red wine barrels to make it sour. And the good part is, if you’re somebody who’s kind of on the fence about drinking sour beers, this is a very nice transitional way to get into the sours.

Leo: I actually love sours, and I think you got us into it.

Mary Jo: I love sours, now. I used to hate them. The first time I had one, I was like, ew, vinegar. Now I love them. This one’s really, really good. It’s easy to drink, not too sour, it’s got a really nice, mellow flavor. And if you’re a wine drinker, kind of looking for a beer to bridge you over to, a beer to bridge you over, this would be a good one.

Leo: There you go. It’s kind of a wine-y beer.

Mary Jo: It is. Wine-y beer. A good way of putting it. Yea.

Leo: Well, I don’t mean to whine, but we’ve come to the end of the line. I am, I was really hopeful. I actually did install it, and it’s done, but now I’ve got to paste my Microsoft password in there. And it’s long, and I can’t do it while we do the show. So.

Paul: By the way, I installed the leaks build that came before this on my ThinkPad. I got Windows Hello support through the finger thing, which is pretty sweet.

Leo: That’s the new sign on system, the bionic sign on.

Paul: Yea, it like natively supported it.

Leo: Neato, neato. Paul, Mary Jo, thank you so much. Paul Thurrott’s at T-H-U-R-R-O-T-T.COM. Mary Jo’s at and together they form the dynamic duo behind Windows Weekly every Wednesday, 11:00 AM Pacific, 2:00 Eastern time, 1800 UTC, or get it on demand after the fact. Audio and video available everywhere, including the new Spotify, happy to say that. Please watch every week; subscribe if you will. I think you’ll…

Paul: When does the Spotify happen, Leo?

Leo: As soon as you get the update to the software, no I take that back, because I did get the update to the software on iOS and I don’t see it yet, but it’s got the new stuff, so I think it’s just going to be a matter of pushing it. We’ve been uploading, you know, the data, the audio and video to them for a while. You know, a month or so. So, just for internal testing. So, should be soon.

Paul: Cool.

Leo: Yea, yea, I’m excited about that, that’s 60 million more people that can hear you and your thoughts.

Paul: As insane as they may be.

Leo: A]s insane as they may be. So that’s good, so yea, if you have the new Spotify, keep your eye peeled for TWIT podcasts on there as well. And of course Microsoft has the, I think they call it the Xbox Music Store. There’s also a podcast app on your Windows Phone, we’ll be there. Everywhere, frankly, that you can get your shows, that’s where we are. Do subscribe so you get every week. Thank you both for being here, we’ll see you next time on Windows Weekly!

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