Windows Weekly 413 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It´s time for Windows Weekly, Paul and Mary Jo are here and we got a great show for you, Microsoft just before record time announced the SKUs, the units for Windows 10. Which Windows 10 will you be buying? We´ll find out next on Windows weekly.

Netcasts you love from people you trust, this is TWiT! Bandwidth for Windows Weekly is provided by Cachefly at

This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley, Episode 413 recorded May 13, 2015.

A SKU for You

Windows Weekly is brought to you Blue Apron. Blue Apron will send you all the ingredients to cook fresh, delicious meals with simple step by step instructions right to your door. See what’s on the menu this week, and get your first two meals free by going to That’s

And by Prosper. Prosper is a peer-to-peer lending marketplace that connects people who are looking to borrow money to those who have money to lend. Visit and receive a $50 Visa gift card when you get a loan.

And by To download the free audio book of your choice to go

Leo: It´s time for Windows Weekly the show where we cover Windows and I might say mightly, so we should probably rename this to Windows Mightly

Paul Thurrott: Not Windows Meekly?

Leo: Windows Meekly? No, never, I think we have the firebrands of the Windows tech community. Ladies and gentlemen I give you Mary Jo Foley all about

Mary Jo Foley: I feel like a firebrand.

Leo: A firebrand, that is a very antiquated phrase isn´t it?

Mary Jo: It´s an odd choice of a word.

Paul: Your firebrand is in your wheelhouse Mary Jo.

Mary Jo: Oh, the wheelhouse word again.

Paul: Well we´re using antiquated terms.

Leo: And the man with the wheelhouse of course, Paul Thurrott, everything´s in his wheelhouse at You´ve seen the blog now get the mug or the beer stein.

Paul: The beer stein.

Leo: Oh I want it, want, oh look at that. It´s a little small though, shouldn´t I be able to put a liter in there?

Paul: I believe that´s more than a pint.

Mary Jo: Is it?

Leo: Is it more than a pint?

Paul: I think so.

Leo: Oh, okay. It looks small because you´re such a big man.

Paul: Because I´m huge. Looks like one of those little play sets that you give the kids for tea.

Leo: Well I´m just pointing out that your coffee cup looks like 10 times bigger than that.

Mary Jo: It does, it looks huge.

Leo: There´s something going, some sort of.

Paul: I´m drinking Dunkin Donuts coffee so.

Leo: Oh that´s not coffee, what is it about you east coasters, you New Englanders you really love the Dunkin Donuts. People act like it´s the world’s greatest coffee.

Paul: It´s a combination of frugality and availability really.

Leo: Yeah it´s everywhere. We went back to see my mother when my daughter was maybe 12 and we passed a Dunkin Donuts and she insisted on stopping, Dunkin, the legendary Dunkin Donuts, I said honey it ain’t what I said, alright you got to find out someday. Alright let´s talk Windows and this is big, big news, the Windows SKUs are here.

Mary Jo: Yeah, it was nice, Microsoft dropped this news right before we started Windows Weekly. I think they´re thinking of us when they do this.

Leo: How can you have SKUs if something is free?

Mary Jo: Yeah, okay. This is a complex topic.

Paul: It sure is.

Mary Jo: Um, let´s start with what the SKUs are maybe. So you know, a lot of people still thought that there would be one Windows 10 SKU even though Microsoft said repeatedly there would be multiple ones, but I don´t know if people thought there would be 6 or 9.

Leo: What?

Paul: Or 21.

Mary Jo: Yeah. So they announced the SKUs today, there are 6 main ones, and then 3 more that are IOT SKUs.

Leo: Oh embedded then? Well that´s a specialty product.

Paul: Yeah but they still expanded both you know.

Mary Jo: So we´ll leave the embedded ones to the side. Here´s the 6 SKUs: There´s home, mobile which is the new version of phone and the small tablets SKU, but that´s the, that´s what we had heard it was probably going to be called because that´s what they were calling it in the insiders program.

Leo: And they don´t have to worry about Sky suing over for that name because.

Mary Jo: Right, mobile, Windows 10 mobile.

Leo: They´ve had it for a while.

Mary Jo: Yeah, Windows 10 mobile Enterprise brand new.

Leo: And that´s the one that won´t be free right?

Mary Jo: Well we´ll get into free and paid in a minute.

Leo: Okay.

Mary Jo: Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Education. Those are the 6.

Leo: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Home, mobile.

Paul: Actually there´s a better way to organize these I think we should, the mobile ones should be off by themselves.

Leo: Yes because there´s mobile Enterprise.

Mary Jo: Mobile and mobile Enterprise.

Leo: Okay.

Mary Jo: So Home, Pro, Enterprise and Education.

Leo: That´s okay, that´s rational.

Paul: Is it? Because it´s hard to tell from this description because they really don´t explain a lot about what the differences are, but my understanding of education is that it´s basically just Enterprise rebranded for Education, but if you accept the fact that a managed enterprise, I´m sorry, a managed education environment is just the same thing as an enterprise I mean why? I just, I hate to see this kind of proliferation of SKUs like I just think.

Leo: Well in fact it is more as Mary Jo points out in her article, it is 2 more than Windows 8 had. Windows 8 had only 4 SKUs.

Paul: That´s what I mean, exactly. You know in this day and age when Apple has 1 SKU for iOS and 1 SKU for Mac OS 10, you don´t make more SKUs and they keep talking about one Windows.

Mary Jo: So here´s why they made more, it´s so they can charge you, charge you. It´s for pricing.

Leo: You´re right. So the free one will be which?

Mary Jo: So, we, this is even merky, so we believe Windows 10 Home will be one of the free ones but only.

Paul: No, they say it, they say it explicitly which one is free.

Mary Jo: Only for the first year that Windows 10 is out and we don´t know if they will have a price on it after that which I bet they will.

Paul: Oh no, of course they will. Although I would say Windows 10 mobile probably won´t because it´s only available with new hardware.

Leo: You can buy it with the phone.

Paul: And they´ve never charged for an upgrade to Windows phone ever so I´m sure of that one.

Mary Jo: Except Windows 10 mobile Enterprise I bet you will cost.

Paul: Right, I´m talking about the base, but that´s not one of the ones that´s free the first year.

Leo: Right, Enterprise mobile may imply some sort of secure store and IT control you know.

Paul: I thought it just implied price gadgets but okay.

Leo: But it would make sense that you give away Windows mobile but if you want the Enterprise features that are designed you know.

Paul I find this all to be very depressing, when I think about Windows 10 heading out to consumers, individuals of any kind, just Windows 10, no pro, no home.

Mary Jo: And it will be.

Leo: That´s the thing that most bothers me is home versus pro. Everybody understands that there´s an Enterprise SKU, maybe you could understand there´s an Education SKU, but if you´re giving away Windows, what does home versus pro mean?

Mary Jo: Right.

Leo: Are they both free?

Paul: Yes, the first year.

Mary Jo: So here´s what we know about Pro so far we know that some people are going to get Windows 10 Pro for free the first year that Windows 10 is available but we don´t know if it means everybody.

Leo: So maybe if you have Pro 8 or 7 you get

Paul: I think that´s the way, that´s the correct.

Mary Jo: Right, so you can jump to, if you´re a Windows 7 or a Windows 8 Pro user the first year Windows 10 is out we believe you´re going to be able to upgrade to it for free. But there are a lot of things we don´t know, like does that only apply to domain joined PCs? Does that mean if you take that SKU that you agree to take all the updates, features and security fixes from Microsoft because you took the free version and what if you don´t want all of them? What if you want to be on that Windows upgrade for business thing? Does that mean you don´t get it for free?

Paul: Well right, that´s a good point.

Mary Jo: I know.

Paul: Yep okay, I just, I don´t have anything to add to that, you´re right, that is a good question.

Mary Jo: Yeah, question right? So you know from this list we can´t exactly say which of these, I don´t think we can say which of these are free and paid, except we know Windows 10 Enterprise is not free.

Paul: Yeah I don´t think anyone expects Windows 10 Home, Pro, whatever, let´s say Home Pro to be free after a year, that would be fairly surprising. Here´s the thing, I think that the clarity on this is going to come over a series of other announcements for example at some point they´ll talk about retail packaging, at some point they´ll talk about pricing, at some point they´ll talk about whether there will be an inbox upgrade as there is today on Windows 8.1 to go from a lower end SKU to a higher end SKU or to add features think of it I mean there´s just a lot we don´t know.

Mary Jo: Right.

Paul: And this blog post was delightfully vague, I congratulate them on their ability to never clarify anything. I mean you make an announcement like that, like here´s a bunch of products and it just opens a can of worms about new questions.

Mary Jo: Yeah it does. We at least know the names of the SKUs and I´ve seen some headlines these are all of the SKUs I actually don´t think these are all because what about system builder?

Paul: Yeah.

Mary Jo: We don´t know about that.

Paul: And what about the whole upgrade versus full version thing remember how they switch course between Windows 7 and Windows 8 and actually I´m sorry Windows 8 and 8.1 I think.

Leo: System builder is the OEM version?

Mary Jo: Yeah. So if you´re building your own PC is there going to be a SKU for you?

Leo: I wonder that´s interesting, I wonder, yeah.

Paul: Oh there´ll be a SKU for you.

Leo: Oh there´s a SKU for you my friend

Paul: There´s going to be a SKU for everybody.

Leo: A SKU for you.

Paul: There´s going to be a Windows 10 Paul edition.

Leo: Everybody has their own SKU.

Paul: I really hate the SKU thing, I really, really do.

Leo: Why Paul why?

Paul: It´s because the rest of the world has moved on and Microsoft has shown themselves to be pretty savvy to the fact that the world is changing and then they do something like this which is so old school, how much is having something called Windows 10 and we´ll license it according to the device, we don´t have to have names, you could say something like it may not make sense to have certain features on a phone so you just don´t get those it´s still Windows 10 you know, they don´t have to have names and different price lists and you know all the stuff, it´s too bad.

Mary Jo: I think though, when you walk into a Microsoft store or a Best Buy they´re not going to say to you do you want Windows 10 Pro or Mobile, or this or that, they´re just going to say do you want Windows 10 right?

Paul: I don´t know, I mean are they?

Mary Jo: That would be my guess.

Leo: Does this come from the heritage in fact that they never really do care about selling direct to customers it´s really about Bing.

Paul: By the way, what about, so there´s no apparently there´s no Windows 10 with Bing right? You know for example.

Mary Jo: We don´t know right? That one we donut know too because that´s an OEM SKU also like customers don´t buy Windows 10 with Bing right? It´s only something they sell to OEMS isn´t it?

Paul: Right.

Leo: People don´t buy Windows 10 with Bing.

Paul: Yeah, they end up with it.

Leo: It just happens.

Paul: Yeah it happens like a cyclone or a tornado or something. I don´t, I just wish there were more answers, I hate the vagueness of all this, there are people out there acting like Windows 10 Mobile is official, Microsoft finally announced it, yeah we´ve known that for months guys that´s not news. There is some news in here I mean the Education SKU completely new, the Mobile Enterprise SKU completely new.

Mary Jo: Although you know it´s weird Paul when I saw the Education SKU I Googled it or Binged it perhaps, one or the other, and it exists, it does exist, there´s a Windows 8.1 Education SKU which I didn´t realize I guess.

Paul: It already exists. This company is infuriating.

Leo: That´s the point, this exposes stuff that you probably don´t ever really need to see.

Paul: So from the perspective of us you know because we cover Microsoft for example, so you´re saying there´s a Windows 8 Education SKU.

Mary Jo: There is.

Paul: That´s really, it´s really, okay so, great, Windows 8.1 for Education, Now clearly from a functional perspective this thing has to equate to something, Windows 8.1 Pro most likely but not necessarily we don´t know, because I believe they have management tech they would need management technologies and so forth in higher education in particular so that kind of clarity would be nice, here´s a little, a graph perhaps of major features and where they appear in each product and all that kind of stuff, that´s the type of thing I´ll have to create for the book and everything but it would be nice if they provided the basics of it you know.

Mary Jo. Yep.

Paul: I just don´t understand how they can be so vague.

Leo: How could you be so vague? You´re so vague.

Mary Jo: Windows 10 for Education what it says is it´s going to be covered under academic volume licensing, and it says there will be an upgrade path if you´re running Windows 10 Home or Pro to this SKU but we don´t have any details belong that, what´s in it feature wise.

Paul: I took that to be a BYOB solution for Education similar to what we see in Enterprise or in business of all sizes, in other words you bring because you would, a student have a computer and you bring it there and they do a little in place upgrade and now you´re on their system. And by the way you probably noticed this too, Microsoft annoyingly reclined BYOD as something like CYOD they came up with anew.

Leo: Geez, cover your own device?

Paul: I think it´s carry your own device or some boloney.

Leo: Why make up? No! Come on!

Paul: I know, I know.

Mary Jo: But this does open a lot of doors for new questions, somebody´s asking on Twitter who´s listening Byron Servies is saying, what if I byod my Windows Phone to work? Am I going to need the Enterprise mobile SKU? We don´t know.

Leo: No, of course not.

Mary Jo: I bet you will.

Paul: Well okay.

Leo: No, if you want the additional features you´d buy it but you don´t need to do it.

Paul: I mean today Windows Phone has those management features you know, just built in.

Leo: It has all the management stuff, it has secure store. Oh you know what Android does, maybe this is it, it has a separate business and personal kind of storage.

Paul: I think it´s related more to servicing and the ability of Enterprise to schedule certain kinds of updates, certain groups of users on a certain schedule and that kind of thing where you can choose between Windows update for business or WS or system center or in tune, it is that you know that might be related to that.

Mary Jo: I was thinking that maybe you can´t manage it with Intune and Enterprise mobility suite unless you have Enterprise version, and if you´re in a workplace that uses that you would need the Enterprise version then, maybe that´s it.

Paul: This is amazing.

Mary Jo: We don´t know.

Paul: This is amazing.

Mary Jo: So that´s what we know now, is the names of the SKUs, we know a few of the features of the SKUs and that´s about it.

Leo: Okay, that´s good, no, that´s good.

Mary Jo: There will be more.

Paul: It´s our daily dose of confusion Leo.

Leo: Yeah we don´t have a date yet right? I mean it´s end of July is all we have.

Mary Jo: Summer.

Leo: They didn´t even say the end of July, just summer?

Mary Jo: No. They´re saying that was what one OEM partner of theirs said but they would not confirm.

Leo: So that was not true, oh.

Mary Jo: I think it´s true.

Leo: You got to really keep up on this stuff, I have not been apparently.

Paul: They didn´t say it wasn´t true, they said someone said that and you know.

Leo: It fits with what we previously announced.

Mary Jo: Yes, they have been saying summer.

Leo: Which could be September 20th. we don´t know.

Paul: Somebody in my family sent a mass message to my family and now everyone in my family is responding and my phone has been going tic, tic, tic.

Leo: Oh, that´s fun.

Paul: And it´s about absolutely nothing important so it´s hilarious.

Leo: That´s always fun, I´ve had that happen yeah, in fact I do that just to grief my family actually I´ll add everybody.

Paul: It´s like I´m going away for a long weekend, I´m going to be off line, here´s a mass tweet and then I turn off my phone and I leave.

Leo: Exactly. It´s a form of family griefing.

Paul: Have fun everybody. They should be talking about it by the time you get home.

Leo: Oh Lord. Alright.

Mary Jo: So that´s what we know at this point which is not a ton but it´s something.

Leo: 6 SKUs plus 3 thing SKUs.

Paul: Special versions for Xbox, Hololens, Surface.

Mary Jo: Alright we didn´t even put those in there.

Leo: Let´s talk about the IOT versions, so yeah, go ahead.

Mary Jo: So there´s in the blogpost today they talk specifically about 3 IOT or embedded versions. There´s going to be a Windows 10 Enterprise, a Windows 10 Mobile Enterprise versions of embedded so that´s like what Microsoft has now right? They have industry embedded and they have all these different embedded SKUs, some of these have desktops, some don´t but they´re for running all kinds of devices some with screen some without, things like handheld terminals and hardened phones for workplace use, ATMs, point of sale terminals, and then they also have this thing they´re calling Windows IOT core for small, Windows IOT core and that´s for small footprint low cost devices that´s the one I´m pretty sure that is for the Arduino board.

Paul: In fact I spent a great part of today installing, this is my Windows IOT core boot disk, for Raspberry Pi 2.

Leo: That just shows you how tiny it can be.

Paul: Yeah, see? Tiny things, but it goes into that little system board and you know it doesn´t, the device itself doesn´t have any kind of disk so you need something and this is what they use.

Mary Jo: So the blogpost as Paul just pointed out doesn´t mention some other versions of Windows 10 like there´s going to be Windows 10 on Xbox One, there´s going to be Windows 10 inside of the Surface hub, and also inside the Hololens but in those cases, it´s not something a consumer would ever buy this version of the operating system, it´s already in these devices. But yeah, those are other versions of Windows 10 if you really want to get granular about how many versions are.

Leo: Incredible.

Paul: It is, incredible is a great word for this. It is incredible.

Mary Jo: And you know a few people are pointing this out too on Twitter, the reason Microsoft does this, there´s a couple of reasons why they do something this vague.

Paul: It´s not for my blood pressure?

Mary Jo: It´s not.

Leo: They´re targeting Paul.

Mary Jo: It´s not to make my hair grayer.

Leo: Let´s face it.

Mary Jo: It´s because they want to trickle the news out right? Like every couple of weeks.

Leo: They want to stay in the news cycle and look, it worked!

Mary Jo: Every couple of weeks here´s something else, it did right?

Leo: Top of mind Microsoft, top o´mind!

Mary Jo: And I also believe there´s some of these things that maybe they haven´t completely ironed out yet in terms of licensing and the way that things like Windows update for business are going to work and not work, and I´m sure it´s going to go down to the wire when they set the pricing and figure out the licensing terms, that stuff they usually do at the very end.

Leo: Right. Alright.

Mary Jo: Sorry, Paul´s crying.

Leo: It´s just more work for you guys, this is good.

Mary Jo: It is, it gives us stuff to write about.

Paul: By the way one of the non-stories from a couple of days ago that I don´t think we have in the notes was they, somebody tweeted that Windows insiders are going to get Windows 10 for free.

Leo: Really?

Paul: No I mean everyone´s getting it for free but you have to test it on something, the number of people who have a computer or phone, actually phone is not possible so let´s say a computer, that could run Windows something and Windows didn´t come on it is negligible, I mean it´s almost non-existent, I know there´s a couple of them out there but I mean, obviously but what version are they going to get for free right? Is it just going to be based on what version of Windows was on there before? Or do you get a choice? Do you only get the low end version like the home version let’s say if you have a PC? No idea. Not discussed.

Leo: No idea. Alright, let´s take a break, well there´s more.

Paul: Someday I hope to come on the show and have some definitive statement or fact so that I can provide for our audience.

Leo: No, but I contrast this to Apple which doesn´t manage the news cycle as well, when they get news, they get a lot of it but then.

Paul: Yeah and then they´re gone.

Leo: I think Microsoft is saying look we want to stay in front of mind at least.

Paul: By the way I do think that´s part of it and you know why would´t they have announced this say at Ignite or something like Build.

Leo: At Build.

Paul: You know part of it is probably related to what you´re saying, you know keep it in the news.

Leo: Dribble it out.

Paul: There was already a lot of news.

Leo: It´s the Snowden approach to press release.

Paul: The Snowden approach. Everything I learned about marketing I learned from, well actually Mark Penn but after Mark Penn, Edward Snowden.

Leo: Snowden figured it out and actually it wasn´t Snowden so much as Glenn Greenwald and company who realized that you could release it all at once because they had it all at once and then it would be over. I´m thinking like I could think of like a dozen stories, in fact we really need to start to do remember when, and they, and no and nobody´s even thought about it since. Remember for instance Newsweek announced that some guy in L.A. was Satoshi Nakamoto creator of Bitcoin, have you heard anything since?

Mary Jo: No.

Leo: No, apparently the story was completely wrong, stupid.

Paul: Wow.

Leo: Have you heard anything since? Not an apology, not an update, nothing. And I could think of a dozen, it happens to us all the time, I got to start making notes the problem is I´m you know empty brained as everyone else.

Paul : Yeah sure, every time I write any article I have to search Google for what I wrote before about something because I have no idea you know what.

Leo: What did I say last time? Who am I? What am I doing here? So I just feel like, this would be a good thing, maybe I´m going to start a new show like Circle Back we´ll call it.

Paul: You should put it in a calendar and every time you see something in the news put it in on that date and then every year on that date you´ll get a reminder.

Leo: Yes because companies get away with crap because nobody, it´s like oh yeah. What did you say though 6 months ago? Oh, that´s 6 months ago, it´s so last quarter.

Paul: It´s like it didn´t even happen.

Leo: Right. Circle back. We´re going to have a new show, I like it, I know I just.

Paul: Not as good as Time Cop but it´s good.

Leo: Star Gate News.

Our show today brought to you by a company and we were talking before the show and I guess you guys haven´t heard about this but I´m going to get you each your own Blue Apron box.

Paul: I´m going to get you!

Leo: I´m going to get you sucker! No, you´re going to love this., I know you both, actually I knew Mary Jo liked to cook I didn´t know Paul was a cook. So that´s good. I love to cook.

Paul: I´m not a cook, I do cook.

Leo: Well you probably, Steffy makes you cook, but wouldn't it be nice if like when it´s Daddy, I remember when my father cooked, my father cooked once in a while, it would be so disgusting. Home fries and hot dogs, and he would cut up a potato, cut up an onion, he would cut up some hot dogs, he´d put it all in a pan, fry it up and serve it. It was disgusting but that was Dad´s, the extent of Dad´s cooking, he´s gotten much better I might add. Blue Apron will, first of all the name comes from the blue apron´s worn by the apprentice chefs at the world famous Cordon Blue restaurant in Paris, because in effect this is what you´re going to get to be, it´s like working side by side with a great chef. Blue Apron makes cooking delicious meals so easy, so fun, they deliver fresh, ready to cook meals right to your door, on your schedule, you get to choose the meals you want, the menus change all the time in fact you´ll never get the same meal twice. Less than $10 bucks a meal and the ingredients are all fresh, there´s nothing frozen, the box is refrigerated to keep it fresh in transport, but the salmon is fresh, the chicken is fresh. Mary Jo wants vegetarian meals we´ll get her those, and along with and by the way if it´s a bunch of parsley you need, a bunch of parsley comes in the box. So there´s no waste, you don´t have a refrigerator full of ingredients that you don´t know what to do with, and you have just enough to make exactly the right thing. They have a family plan too, with kid friendly ingredients so the whole family can eat well, I think teaching a kid how to cook is probably one of the most important things you can do. You don´t want them eating at fast food restaurants when they leave home, so go to we´re going to tell you actually how you can get your first 2 meals free, They have a 2 person plan and they have a family plan. Your box will come as you schedule it, I just love it. Each meal is balanced, healthy, 500 to 700 calories per serving., shipping is free, cooking in every case is about half an hour and they have videos online if you have further questions but those recipe cards they send you have beautiful printed pictures with all the instructions so even if you´re not a cook yet, you´ll become a cook. I love Blue Apron, let´s see what´s on the menu this week: Tofu and red rice stir fry, there you go for mary Jo, Steamed cod, rice flake crusted hake, flat iron steaks, that´s for you Mr. Paul Thurrott, flat iron steaks with ramps, fingerling potatoes and shaved asparagus salad. Everything comes in the box, so it shows you how to make it, it gives you techniques and the next time, this is what comes in the box, all fresh, and by the way the meat is fabulous, the fish is fabulous, and the next time you´ll know exactly how to do it. No more home fries and hot dogs for you., by the way notice they have comments on each recipe too so you can see how people suggest things, what worked, and so forth. I love this. This is for people who want to cook but don´t have the time to go shopping after work, to get your first 2 meals free. Fresh, delicious, fun, it´s really fun., Paul and Mary Jo I feel terrible that we hadn´t sent you a Blue Apron box yet so we´ll do that so that you can test it out.

Leo: We´re talking Windows Weekly, oh I turned off your sound I´m sorry that was so you could talk amongst yourselves.

Mary Jo: Cough.

Leo: Cough.

Mary Jo: I have been coughing since I got back from Chicago.

Leo: Yeah man, that travel will do it for you, won´t it?

Mary Jo: Oh that was a brutal trip actually that was a long couple of weeks.

Leo: Yeah, you both were saying oh my God but you´re done right?

Mary Jo: Yep we´re done.

Leo: Nothing more?

Mary Jo: Not til July.

Leo: Thank goodness. Okay item 2 on the agenda: What if Windows 10 is the last version of Windows and you know your discussion about the SKUs made me think about this story, how is this going to work if it´s the last version of Windows, the implication being that they would just continue to update this forever.

Mary Jo: You go first.

Paul: How many times have we heard this?

Mary Jo: We both have a lot to say on this.

Paul: This is the last version of Windows.

Leo: Okay there won´t be a Windows 11?

Paul: You know what, who knows what there´s going to be, I just don´t think it matters. There will be more Windows, there will be updates and upgrades and they may rename things because things change I don´t know. But this whole strategy, even Windows is a service right? It´s not really dramatically different to what they were doing before, it is sort of servicing what they´re doing with Xbox One and all that stuff is to one Windows, in other words it´s not a brand new thing, it´s just an evolution of what they were already doing. And it´s nicer a little bit not dramatically, and look if they decide to keep, stick with the name the Windows 10 name, if they just decide, hey look we´re just going to say Windows now going forward whatever, you know something like the Xbox One gets monthly system updates which I think is pretty cool. We know about Patch Tuesday and Surface Firm updates are roughly, if you subscribed to Office 365, the Cloud and client components are upgraded on some schedule depending on which version of Office 365 you have and possibly on your organization. This is nothing new you know when previous versions of Windows service packs would come out, feature packs would come out, they would ship monthly updates or out of band updates, some of them would be functional updates, some of them would be just bug fixes or security fixes. When Windows, they did this with Windows phone for every single version, when Windows 8.1 came out they had Windows 8.1 update 1 and then update 2 which they didn´t call update 2 which I think is kind of the finny bit of this and that is that things change when it comes to branding these things. You know they might have an idea going in about we´re going to call these things a certain thing and we like to name things as things, but those plans change and so today we can say well Microsoft has no plans for Windows 11 next April they might be shipping Windows 11, we don`t know what the future holds, we do know this, there will be more Windows, this is just click bait stupidity.

Mary Jo: The headlines, the headlines got crazy as the week went on.

Paul: Just stupid.

Mary Jo: We should say we´re the starter form so, no, it´s funny so Paul and I had both heard I think a year ago, that Microsoft was thinking about making this "the last version of Windows", we´d both written about this before.

Leo: This doesn´t sound new to me.

Mary Jo: But then at Ignite, Microsoft developer evangelist guy named Jerry Nixon, who´s a great guy, I know him, just through twitter but he´s a really smart, good guy, he just threw that out there in a session and he said you know what, this is going to be the last version of Windows.

Paul: What was the session about by the way?

Mary Jo: It was not even about this, it was about tiles, notifications and actions.

Paul: Right, which I just want to highlight, is exactly where Microsoft would make an announcement of this import.

Mary Jo: Right

Paul: It´s exactly where they would do it.

Mary Jo: And poor Jerry Nixon wouldn´t be the guy doing it either, it´s like if they really wanted to say this is the last version of Windows it would be Terry Myerson saying this or it would be Satya Nadella.

Leo: Is Jerry going to get in trouble for this?

Mary Jo: He´s still there, I saw him tweet yesterday, he´s still employed. But you know he didn´t say anything out of school, to me, he was just saying what is basically the case, this is, at least for now is the last major version of Windows. But people just went wild, the headlines just got insane, did you see some of them?

Paul: You know what? It´s really a marketing thing remember why did they skip Windows 9 and go to Windows 10? Why are they talking about free updates for Windows 10 for one year? Get in quick, get in this thing quick. They really want people to think why win Windows right? They want people to think that this is something completely new and different, it´s big, if you´re on Windows 7 you´re way behind. They really want people to embrace this and even that casual throwing out is a way to kind of say in that case to developers you know this is the big one. That´s really that they´re doing, it´s really just marketing, it´s marketing.

Mary Jo: Yes, it is. But then people who didn't understand that and started writing headlines and other places, yesterday I saw Microsoft halting all work on Windows.

Paul: Oh no that´s the wrong, obviously that´s not true.

Mary Jo: No, I know and then you´re like ah, this thing has spiraled out of control right? It´s just Microsoft making a branding decision at this point, that´s what it is.

Paul: Right.

Mary Jo: The other one that went hand in hand with this I don´t know if Paul saw this one happening too was Microsoft kills Patch Tuesday. That was another headline last week.

Paul: Yes, oh yes, oh God. That´s amazing.

Mary Jo: And the thinking was, and once that started it steamrolled too but it was okay so now Microsoft is doing this Windows service idea so that means no more Patch Tuesdays right? Like that idea is gone and Microsoft confirmed that.

Paul: Literally we just start slipping little updates out every 10 seconds whenever they´re finished.

Mary Jo: Right.

Paul: That´s how it works.

Mary Jo: I didn´t think they were killing Patch Tuesday specially when they announced Windows update for business, that whole idea is give IT control about when they roll out the patched they can continue to use Windows server update services, they can use system center, they can use whatever they want to kind of control that and so I asked just to get a comment and they said if you opt to be on a certain branch as part of Windows update for business you will still get these updates on the second tuesday of the month, which is Patch Tuesday, so no Patch Tuesday is not dead either. Windows is not being halted, Patch Tuesday is not dead.

Leo: I wonder where people get this stuff.

Mary Jo: They don´t understand., they see headlines.

Paul: These kind of things make me want to pull a thumb out.

Mary Jo: They see headlines, they instead of trying to understand they just go, oh I guess Patch Tuesday is dead.

Paul: There´s also kind of a coy bit of boloney, I think a lot of the the people writing this stuff know exactly what´s happening, but they, they´re really shooting for the headline thing and I just can´t stand that kind of thing.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: It´s too bad

Leo: It is too bad.

Mary Jo: Yeah because it gets people panicked and that´s the worst part.

Leo: But when they say this as you have said, there is some truth to the notion that maybe, nothing, nothing is true.

Paul: This is just what they´ve really been doing, in other word Microsoft responded with a statement when asked about this thing that Jerry Nixon said right? And they said, let me find it, you know, that this is just an extension of Windows as a service, this is what we´ve been talking about, Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value to our customers. That is not really any different from what they´ve been doing since day 1.

Leo: And it kind of implies that you should pay a subscription.

Paul: By the way, that´s a, no.

Mary Jo: That´s another wrong one.

Paul: But it´s a common misconception in fact we´ve kind of blown through my coming tip already but another part of that is when Microsoft talks about Windows 10 being free for the first year a lot of people heard that as okay so for 1 year I´m going to get it for free and then after that what? I start paying a subscription fee right, that´s how that´s going to work because it´s going to be like Windows 365. And the answer is no, that´s actually not what they meant, and I think, I don´t want to speak for Mary Jo, but I think when her and I both heard that in that event in Redmond we both took it the right way. That this is a special offer for 1 year and it will be free and that after that if you want to upgrade a computer you haven´t upgraded previously you then have to pay for the upgrade, not that there would be ongoing subscriptions fees for Windows but a lot of people took it that way.

Mary Jo: Right and in fact Microsoft has said multiple times since they announced that, this is not Windows 365, you´re going to get updates for the supported lifetime of the device, which is something we don´t know exactly what that means but it does not mean after the 1 year you start paying a subscription fee, they´ve denied that flat out.

Paul: To be clear though because they can be, there are still questions around this so for example I have a Windows 7 pc that I´ve upgraded for free to Windows 10 and then maybe 2 years go by and what I want to do now is do a clean install of Windows 10, am I going to be able to do that? I mean at that point do I have to pay for it? Did they give me something that will let me do that like an ISO file and if so will it understand that this computer was in fact already upgraded and I don´t need to worry about product keys and stuff like that? We have no idea and this is why people like this have a job of course you know, we´ll spend much of the next year figuring this out and explaining but there are a lot of questions.

Mary Jo: But what we do know in the case that you just described is if they even if they do have to pay for the upgrade, you´re not going to pay for updates right? That part we do know.

Paul: Right, right.

Mary Jo: And that´s what people are confusing, people are saying.

Paul: There´s no option where you pay $30 bucks a year or something.

Mary Jo: No, you know what? Everybody is looking for the loophole and I have to admit I have been too because nobody can believe Microsoft is going to do this for free, they´re like okay but where´s the catch here? There´s a catch somewhere.

Paul: There´s a catch. Well it could be that the issue you raised briefly earlier because there was language remember when they first announced this, that you will allow us to keep your computer up to date, you know part of this agreement it may literally be a pact not with the devil but with Microsoft where you let them update the machine, you know a lot of people like to go on Windows update and say oh I don´t think so you know and turn it off.

Mary Jo: Yeah I´m almost 100% sure, yes on that.

Paul: Yeah at the time that´s what they said, They said that to us that that was the case.

Mary Jo: So yeah, if you get the 1 year free deal, part of the reason they want to give away this deal is so you will have to take every feature update they give you and every security fix and other kind of fix. They´re just going to push that to you and you are not going to be able to say no.

Leo: Oh, okay this is important then, so there is a price but, not that that´s a bad price but there is.

Mary Jo: No.

Leo: If you bought it you would´t have to do that.

Paul: I would argue that for most people this is just an evolution of the way things were already and it´s really in the way things are on a phone, you know if you think about even like an iPhone it doesn´t have to be a Windows phone, some software update comes out you can sort of say no for a little while but eventually you got to upgrade the thing you just can´t let it sit there and apps are updating everyday on every phone platform that happens every single day and a lot of the updates that Microsoft will provide to Windows 10 will come in the form of these app updates right because there are certain things that comes with a certain number of apps and they can update the system in that sense as well, whereas in the past like Windows mail and Windows Vista was part of the core OS, it didn´t really get updated probably ever, if it did very rarely. Whereas the current mail app whatever it´s called Outlook mail now whatever, that can be updated and will be updated regularly.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: One Windows.

Mary Jo: And then if you go Windows update for business that´s when you start having more control right?

Leo: That makes sense because business people want Enterprise IT wants to control the space and they want to vet this stuff, but a home user wants the updates, I tell everybody update when there´s an update.

Paul: I do think that on the mobile side that´s where the Enterprise SKU comes in, I think that´s required for Windows update for business. On the pc side it´s just Windows Pro or higher.

Leo: Right.

Paul: Yo can enroll those computers into the system and control the updates centrally, based on who they are, what group they are in, or whatever your policy may be.

Mary Jo: Yeah the one place I bet they´ll be the loophole or the catch is if you´re somebody who doesn´t want any new features and you have some mission critical devices you need to lock down and you only want them to get security updates I think, I´m not 100% percent sure but I think the only way you can do that is being on the Enterprise SKU.

Paul: Interesting.

Mary Jo: I believe but again they haven´t really said that as plainly as I just did.

Leo: And their interest in this is what? Is to have an ecosystem of a billion users.

Paul: That are all on the same page.

Leo: That are all on the same exact version of Windows.

Paul: It´s not just security updates although it´s super important, it´s also functional level, even if you go to right now and scroll to the bottom of the page you´ll see that there are a lot of Windows versions still supported and a lot of Windows related products that they have to talk about, internet explorers all of which all have multiple versions themselves, and keeping all of this stuff up to date, security updates is a big deal, a foreign internet explorer that affects every version going back to 2003 it´s complicated, there are several versions that run on different platforms, it´s really complicated and that´s one aspect of it, but it´s also that we´re all on the same functional experience you know when somebody calls Microsoft support and says I´m using your mail app and I can´t forward.

Leo: I don´t know what version you´re using, yeah.

Paul: You don´t have to worry about it anymore. It just becomes, we´re all on the same page.

Leo: Everybody´s using Edge, everybody´s got the same version of Edge. I don´t see anything wrong with that. That´s what normal users want.

Paul: So you just said the word normal and you´re right, the people who do have a problem with that aren´t necessarily normal and I don´t mean that in a bad way.

Leo: No they´re Enterprise

Paul: Well no I´m talking about individuals because there are some people who really want to micromanage this kind of experience.

Leo: Well stop it. You don´t get anything for free then.

Paul: Sure, sure.

Mary Jo: Well I think some of those people who want to do that are people who have been burned by bad patches and they want to say I want to look at what they´re patching and I want to compare it again to what I know right?

Paul: By the way, yeah, that´s fair.

Leo: These are the people, this is the same person that balances his own checkbook because he doesn´t trust the banks computer. I understand there are people like that and probably a preponderance of them are in our audience because these are people who care enough.

Paul; Highly technical, they want to defrag the disk themselves, they want to make sure it happens that want to watch it happen.

Leo: I don´t diss them, for the vast majority and obviously Microsoft wants this to be one and a half billion people doing what you should, you know just going along with the program is a good idea for you and Microsoft right?

Paul: Yes.

Mary Jo: In theory it is.

Paul: It´s not just self-serving on Microsofts part it really is, I mean it is partially self-serving but it is also truly better for everyone you know for this kind of system and I think this is the one thing you can see it so dramatically, I was going to say you can see it so dramatically in mobile devices but actually you can see it in PCs too, in PCs as well, like I said you know all those versions about E being the typical example, what a mess, and so they´re trying to get rid of that.

Leo: Yeah, I mean Microsoft has to make websites to tell people upgrade your internet explorer, please we beg of you, and that is the right thing to do.

Paul: Please upgrade.

Leo: It´s an interesting, it´s a public, I think it´s a public health model of computing. An epidemiogical model.

Paul: It´s like those people that don´t want to get their kids inoculated.

Leo: It´s vaccines.

Paul: And then they send them to school and they get everyone else sick because you know they, it´s a form of ignorance in a way, but there is a real public benefit to keeping everyone.

Leo: I won´t say it´s ignorance, I´ll presume good will, intelligence on the part of the people who want to do their own thing, and Microsoft’s going to let them, they´re going to let them do their own thing right? But if you want to take advantage of free, is that the carrot?

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Paul: I think the basis of any, of a law would be something like look you can do what you want on your own but when it starts impacting other people we need to have rules.

Leo: Yes, society, there´s a silent interest in having everybody have patched Windows and not use internet explorer 6.

Paul: Yes as far as PCs go and security updates certainly but functional updates too I think there´s a general benefit to that, that is not just Microsoft benefit.

Leo: There is a cost to supporting legacy code.

Mary Jo: Definitely.

Leo: For everybody. If you´re Google and you´re doing Gmail and you want it to work with Outlook, it´s nice to know everyone´s using the same version of Outlook.

Paul: Well put in another way, if you´re Gmail, you update it once and it updates everyone at the same time you don´t have to think about it. No one´s on Gmail from 2007, this is the problem that Microsoft has with Windows and that´s what they´re trying to solve, they can´t completely solve it but they want to get as close as they can

Leo: There´s a cat in here!

Paul: Oh it´s a cat, thank God.

Leo: It looks like a skunk, is this our cat? Oh my God we just got a cat, a baby girl, girls are good, I like girls.

Paul: This is the man you´ll be disdaining the rest of your life.

Leo: This is the person you will look to only for food.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: That´s the funniest thing, we were just talking about that. Cute, that´s a cute little black kitty with white paws. Lisa does to me by the way, when I´m on the air with the show, that´s when she says oh it´s okay if I buy a new car right? It´s okay if we have a cat?

Paul: It´s only a cat Leo.

Leo: It´s just a cat, actually it´s going to last longer than the car, but we´re hearing the chatroom is giving us lots of reasons why you wouldn´t want to upgrade, spec says my son´s college wanted him not to update his pc with Windows update because it would break their online software, you know there´s people using ActiveX controls, Edge doesn´t have Active X, hospitals of course don´t want to upgrade Windows because they´re using Windows 2000.

Paul: The 2 organizations you´ve mentioned so far are managed enterprises.

Leo: Exactly.

Paul: They would have their own policies.

Leo: Yes.

Paul: In which case you could say everyone moving to Windows 10 makes plenty of sense because then they can get enrolled into these policies and be up to date according to the rules of that organization.

Leo: Right. So, yeah. It´s not just the Unibomber though right? There are people.

Paul: No, it´s not.

Leo: Okay. But you figure he´d be one of them right?

Paul: Many years ago, I won´t name names here per se but I was writing a book about some version of Windows with someone and you know it was one of these back and forths where it was like we´re on the same page about things so this is going to be like this, and this is going to be like this, yeah, and we got to the part about security updates and he said obviously the blanket device for security updates is turn off Windows updates so that nothing ever gets updated and that you manually control, and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, what?

Leo: Whoa!

Paul: No, absolutely not, I thought that was just the most insane thing but that was where that person was coming from, you know there are smart people who really want to micromanage things. I don´t know I think we got to get past that.

Leo: Yeah.

Paul: I get that things go wrong but.

Leo: Well has there been a bad one lately?

Paul: Well as Mary Jo can probably explain better than I, the last year and a half or so has been a bad one for security updates or Patch Tuesday updates that haven´t done well. I don´t think any of them have necessarily caused huge amounts of loss or whatever, but it does seem especially in the times since the layoffs that there´s been, there´s been a quality issue there with updates.

Leo: Well Microsoft´s got to do a carrot and a stick. They got the carrot, I guess they need 2 carrots really. They don´t need a stick.

Paul: What they need is chocolate cake because nobody wants the carrot and right now it is a carrot and people are kind of looking at it like I don´t know if I want to go for that.

Leo: It puts the burden on them to get this stuff right, if you´re going to make people do it.

Mary Jo: Well you know they´re arguing, this is going to sound like guinea pig stuff but, they´re arguing that people who are in the insider rings or helping them iron out some of the kinks in these Windows patches because they´re testing stuff and then Microsoft´s releasing it later to the average customer so if you´re in the fast ring or if they end up doing this ludicrous ring that they have talked about where you get this stuff really fast.

Leo: You guarantee the patches won´t work.

Mary Jo: You´re going to have a lot of bugs and problems right, but I think they´re going to iron that out.

Paul: By the way you should know what you´re getting into. I don´t have a problem with that, I´d rather have fast and buggy than slow.

Leo: Yeah, so that´s in a way a great way to handle this for Microsoft, so what you´re saying is that this insider stuff is going to continue after the release of Windows 10.

Mary Jo: It is, it is.

Paul: By the way if that´s when it becomes basically Beta testing updates, great.

Mary Jo: That´s what it is right? And then they test it if you´re in the slow ring you don´t get these patches right when they´re right out of the gate and they already have been tested by millions of people and their theory is that´s going to improve the quality of the patches.

Leo: And there are people like you and me who are sophisticated users and maybe want to be for altruistic reasons or just because we want to be on the bleeding edge, want to get on the inside rings, the fast rings and that´s great you know what, I would like to do that. I´d love to be, you know, a bug tester.

Paul: Yeah, and you know sometimes you get burned a couple of times, maybe you can go back to a slower ring or whatever.

Leo: So what. But don´t use it on your production machine that´s all.

Paul: Or do and just understand that bad stuff can happen.

Leo: Yeah, I think this is great.

Mary Jo: If you´re like me you don´t want to be that group of people.

Paul: See you in 3 years, let me know how this goes.

Mary Jo: Right.

Leo: You know it´s like, I want to make like a team tech guy or a team Twit of people who are on the bleeding edge who use the new chat software, or use the new website, I think that´s, there´s a, some people reward for that. Because you´re an insider.

Paul: And some people like Mary Jo just demonstrated, no.

Leo: But that´s why the name Windows insider is exactly right, that´s actually smart because that´s who those people are, they want to feel like an insider and Mary Jo, it´s not worth it to you.

Mary Jo: No, I don´t need stuff, I can wait a few weeks, I´m not in that much of a rush.

Paul: I go back and forth on this one because sometimes I really get bored of you know, the production stuff and sometimes it´s like I really just need this to break.

Leo: I love the new stuff, I always want the next, who doesn´t hit update, update, update on their phone every 5 minutes, you know.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Is it new? Is it new?

Paul: You know on an AT&T Android phone it won´t let you do that, it says you can check again in 15 minutes.

Leo: What? That´s annoying. No, no, no.

Paul: Yeah, like seriously?

Leo: Don´t tell us that, just pretend you´re checking. You don´t have to tell us, we just want to do it.

Paul: Yeah. I know.

Leo: You know and for the rest of you, get an iPhone, you know seriously get an iPhone, there´s no point in hitting update.

Paul: By the way get an iPhone and join the Apple Beta program for $99 bucks a year and get regular updates throughout the year.

Leo: I guess you still can do it huh.

Paul: You can do that if you really want to live on the edge.

Leo: Yep. I think this is funny.

Paul: 8.4 right now.

Leo: Yeah, that´s true you can, yeah. You have to pay, and you have to be able to say you´re a developer and all that.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: Let´s talk ablaut Edge, have we done that yet?

Mary Jo: We have not, speaking of edge, living on the edge.

Leo: I´m intrigued. So Active X Is out.

Mary Jo: Yes.

Leo: But we knew that though

Mary Jo: We figured that right?

Leo: That would be crazy to continue that.

Mary Jo: Right. So Microsoft released last week I think a list of what they´re cutting out of the Edge browser, Active X, VBscript, not surprising.

Paul: My 2 favorite technologies of all times. I wrote books about this stuff.

Leo: Well but there are a lot of internets and there are a lot of IT departments who need it and use it.

Mary Jo: Right, right. Silverlight was not listed on this list of things so were like plug ins but I believe those are on that lists well.

Leo: They got to be right? Windows Media Center.

Mary Jo: Although then people, yeah.

Leo: They didn´t even bother to put that on the list.

Mary Jo: I know, no. This is all just stuff cut out of the browser, they said 220,000 lines of code have been cut in their rendering engine.

Leo: Wow, how big is, how many lines of code is Edge?

Mary Jo: That is a good question I do not know.

Leo: Google did that, that´s why they forked webkit to make Blink and what they took out was all the legacy support. And it turned out to be millions of lines of code, it was a huge amount, the code was legacy support.

Mary Jo: Well Microsoft did this too, they forked MSHTML the rendering engine which is Trident and then they created this Edge rendering engine, so that´s also a very distant fork of Trident but still a fork.

Leo: It´s cleaning up, time to clean it up.

Mary Jo: Yep, but then they also published a list of what is coming to Edge that was also interesting. They had things like object RTC, pointer lock, more Cortana scenarios and they mentioned officially extensions, they´ve said this a couple of times that they´re going to support extensions in Edge, not right when it ships originally but it will be coming and they also said they already know they´re going to have extensions for Skype; Reddit and Pinterest so they´re already working with developers in extensions obviously if they can name names. So yeah, they´re doing a lot of work, they´ve got a nice new blog, um, what is the name of this blog? I forget. Do you remember Paul?

Leo: The edge of blog?

Paul: The Edge blog? I actually don´t know.

Mary Jo: They have this new blog Edge dev blog, Microsoft Edge Dev blog and this where they talk about the stuff they´re doing from more of a developer perspective but they´ve been doing a lot of really good posts now that Edge is more public, about what they´re doing under the covers with the browser, pretty interesting if you´re a developer.

Paul: By the way if you search for Edge blog you´re not going to find this blog.

Leo: No you search for Edge Dev blog, that´s what you have to search for.

Paul: There´s a lot of stuff out there that has nothing to do with it.

Leo: So if you care about this, this is a good place because this is where they announce what´s going on.

Mary Jo: Yeah.

Leo : Good they´re going to do ECMA 6, ECMA Script 6 is the latest, the newest Java, this is good. Vorlon.JS

Paul: Yep.

Leo: Great stuff.

Paul: I think they were one of the enemies in the Star Trek TV series.

Leo: Vorlon, wow.

Mary Jo: Yep. Vorlon is this new debugger that they built for Java Script, Microsoft built this and it´s built on top of type script so yeah they´re doing a lot of really, kind of, I guess stuff I would say that people in the developer community maybe never thought they would do, but it´s a new Microsoft,we say that a lot on this show, it´s a new Microsoft. We don´t have anything else on Edge, do you, oh you mentioned, I didn´t understand this post that well but maybe you did, media capture functionality being integrated into, directly into Edge, that was the announcement today I think.

Leo: When they say media capture do they mean like I can go to Youtube and download the video?

Paul: I didn´t really look at this too closely but I thought this was related to the ability of a website to protect digital content from, it´s the first announcement on that blog if you.

Leo: Yeah, let´s read more shall we?

Paul: Yes, let´s read it online.

Leo: Yeah why not do a show where here I´ll just read it out loud and you guys can comment.

Paul: Yeah we´ll sort of figure it out as you go.

Leo: The media capture functionality in Microsoft Edge, it´s based on the W3C Media Capture and Streams Spec, Facebook does it so it gives you, sound like, sounds like maybe the Instant Play video on Facebook get user media method call takes media stream, capture devices and capture media streams such as camera facingMode, video resolution, so this has to do with using a camera, a web cam, um, interesting.

Mary Jo: They´re doing, definitely an understatement.

Leo: Photo capture using webcam, so the ability for instance use your webcam to add a photo to your Facebook, that kind of thing. Capture device settings, it´s not the other way around, saving video from a website. Flash does this, I mean right now if you want to capture you would use Flash, Google does it with web RTC and hangouts, it´ll ask permission, it´ll say allow your camera to accessed by the website and you say yes and the, so this makes sense, this is good. And this is based on the spec which is want you want. W3C Spec.

Mary Jo: That´s the thing more and more you see Microsoft doing thing with standards community, leading the standards it´s just a very different place because in the old world of course IE was known as the enemy of the standards.

Leo: So they, the blog post gives 2 examples which is capturing a photo from a built in camera, capturing audio from a microphone so it´s very much you know, what Flash does right now, something like that recording things.

Mary Jo: Yeah, okay.

Leo: Cool, media capture Microsoft update, I, are you guys using, well I know you´re not Mary Jo, are you using Edge and do you like it?

Paul: On Windows 10? Yea, I’m trying to. You know, switching to something like Edge is a little complex because it’s, you know, I don’t have Windows 10 fulltime on anything, right, so if I use it in Phone or the PC and vice versa, there’ll be some nice synchronicity there at some point. But I think I will use it once Windows 10 becomes a little more stable and usable, but I still use a mix of browsers, so, and I’m using it on Windows 10, yea. I like it. The only thing I don’t like about Edge is the problem I have with Windows apps in general, which is that there’s not a lot of contrast in the UI, and so you do things like select the address bar, which is in kind of a sea of very light gray, and it doesn’t highlight in a very visual way. It’s hard to know that you’ve even done it. And I wish they would add some color, I mean something as simple as just having all the little icons, they’re not even icons, the little gliffs or whatever they have for the browser controls in Edge, just be colored would be nice, you know, just to add some contrast to the UI, it seems to render webpages very well. If you get beyond that, it doesn’t have some stuff I like from IE, including the ability to pin, you know, web sites to the taskbar.

Leo: The annotation is cool.

Paul: Yea, that’s cool.

Leo: I’m sure they’ll have pinning, that’s not a, I can’t imagine they won’t turn that on. So, here’s a question for you. Given that Windows 10 is going to be an upgrade for almost everybody who buys a computer right now, unless you buy it in Enterprise, I have been pointing out, well, see, previously I believed the end of July rumors. So, but I have been telling radio callers, for instance, it might be worth waiting until Windows 10 comes out because a Windows 10 PC might have, for instance, this Hello, this Microsoft Hello Camera. So there might be some hardware, is the camera one of the few things that would make you wait for a Windows 10 specific PC?

Paul: Yea, I would say so.

Mary: There might be new processors, too, right, at that time?

Paul: Especially on the phone side.

Leo: Well that might be, you always wait for that, right, yea.

Paul: I mean I installed Windows 10 on a ThinkPad that has a fingerprint login.

Leo: Yea?

Paul: And that fingerprint login already works in Windows 10 natively, using the Windows 10 UI, you don’t have to load the nouveau apps or anything, it just works. And so, it’s not quite as simple as just walking up and being in front of the computer, but you can open the lid, and swipe your finger and you’re in. It’s really quick

Leo: But it might work better with a newer Windows 10 specific computer using Microsoft Hello for other biometrics. So, I’m just trying to figure out what my advice should be, to people who say, “Should I buy a computer now, knowing I’ll get Windows 10 in a few months, or should I wait?”

Paul: The way I would frame this is, if you were somehow, and Microsoft probably has data about this, but if you were able to poll WIndwos 8.1 users on whatever device, it doesn’t matter, you know, PCs, laptops, ultra books, tablets, you know, hopefully they login, and hopefully they have a Microsoft accout with a password and all that kind of stuff, and that’s how they login. Do they login that way, though, manully typing that password every single time, or do they use a PIN, right? And a PIN is a much easier way to login to a device, I guess it’s a little bit less secure, but it’s much easier than typing a password, especially using…

Leo: Now I use a PIN because I don’t want to, my Microsoft password is too long.

Paul: When you go from a password to a PIN you miss it, you know. Like when I pickup a Macbook, and I have to login to my account there, there’s no PIN, you have to type in a password and hit enter, you know, it’s another level of difficulty. But on the other hand, if you could walk up, if you have an iPhone, you know, you can press your thumb to that thing, and you login that way, and it’s wonderful, it’s even easier than typing a PIN, and you kind of miss that when it’s not available. You especially miss it on the iPhone if you reboot, and the first time you actually have to type the PIN in, that becomes aggravating. So, it’s sort of a convenience, I don’t think it’s a necessity. I think people are still typing long passwords, but when you go from password to PIN to thumbprint swipe, to a camera login, when it just sees your face, and it just happens. I think those are all levels of convenience, not necessarily necessaity. And so I think you’re safe buying a Windows computer today. People who want to live on the edge or want the next best thing, I mean they might want to wait. But you know, it’s like anything else, I mean, with you buying a new car, maybe they switched models and the new one has some neat new features like a backup camera or something, it depends on how important that stuff is to you. I don’t actually think it’s crucial, I just think it’s convenience.

Leo: So it doesn’t, all right, that’s good to know. It’s not going to be, the Microsoft Hello is the only hardware specific feature I can think of.

Mary Jo: Is there stuff that’s going to be, what do they call that new trackpad support that they’ve been promising forever?

Paul: The precision trackpad?

Mary Jo: Precision Trackpad.

Leo: What’s that?

Mary Jo: That makes a trackpad actually work.

Leo: Oh, I like that.

Mary Jo: It makes it work well, I should say.

Paul: Right. They have it on the Surface, but of course when you’re on Surface which is a touch device primarily, I tend to turn off a lot of the swiping capabilities anyway, right, and so that, of course in Windows 10 a lot of the edge swipes are different now, so that stuff’s all changing. I don’t know. I guess I’d argue that’s still a convenience, right?

Mary Jo: Yea, yea.

Paul: I mean we probably will see more precision trackpads in this generation of hardware than we did before. Because I can’t think of one off the top of my head, but people have told me that there are at least a couple of non-Microsoft precision trackpads out there in the world. Already, with Windows 8.1 or whatever.

Leo: Alright, it doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of, you know, super compelling technology that’s…

Paul: Yea, I think the basics were all there, it’s obvously multi touch and you know, the multi-input type stuff, you know, keyboard, mouse, trackpad, nubbin, touch screens and you know, any combination of those things per device depending on the device. I mean the basics are all kind of still there. Or are already there, I should say.

Leo: Alright. Just asking. Useful information for me.

Mary Jo: Yea, people ask us this a lot, too. Should I get a new device now?

Leo: And Microsoft really posed it…

Paul: It’s a tough question.

Leo: But they made this, it’s always a question, I mean, its never…

Paul: I mean, do you need a computer right now? I mean, if you do, this conversation is…

Leo: But Microsoft really forced the question by offering, guaranteeing free upgrades to Windows 7 8 users. So, that might be the one, that’s the obvious reason to wait, “Oh, I’ll wait until Windows 10 comes out, and get a computer with Windows 10 on it.” But that’s gone. So now it’s, what else, is there anything else I should be thinking about and waiting for. I guess the answer is, probably not. If you need a computer now, get it. If you can hold off, and it’s always that same old answer, which you gave, Mary Jo, you will get, there will be faster processors, better screens, all that stuff.

Mary Jo: Yep, there’s never the perfect time to jump in and buy a new PC. Because there’s always something just around the corner that’s better.

Paul: Right. It’s like the Simpson’s episode where he buys the whatever computer and he’s driving down the street and sees the billboard for the new version…

Leo: DOH! That’s always the case. Hey, let’s take a break, Mary Jo, Paul, we’re talking Windows as always, every Wednesday morning, 11:00 AM Pacific, 2:00 PM Eastern time, 1800 UTC. We talk Windows with two of the best Windows journalists in the biz. I mean, if Paul and Mary Jo don’t know about it, nobody does. Our show today brought to you by Now more then a quarter of a million people use Prosper, borrowing three billion dollars. Prosper is a peer to peer lending marketplace. So, it’s the modern, internet version, I guess, of a bank, bringing people who have money to lend together with people who want to borrow money. Frankly, borrowing money is always, you know it’s one of those things you never want to do, right? And going to friends or family, that’s a bad idea. Credit card companies, that’s the worst, the loan rates are just appalling. Bank loans you have to go hat in hand, it’s kind of humiliating. Prosper makes it simple, makes it easy, painless, it’s well regulated, the rates are great, you can borrow up to $35,000 in as few as five days. And use the money for just about anything, pay off high rate credit cards, fix up the house, put it into your business. I love Prosper. It is a great way to, well, if you just want one thing, look at what your interest rate. Go to right now,, with just a few clicks of the mouse, not a huge amount of personal data, and it, by the way, won’t affect your credit score, you can get a quote. How much you can borrow, what the interest rate would be. Now, compare it to what you’re paying on your credit card. And if you’re carrying a balance on your credit card I guarentee you, this is the first thing you should do is borrow some money, and you’ll just take that interest rate down from double digits to single digits in most cases, like that. And it’s huge. The amount of money you’ll save every month is huge. So do, if nothing else, go to and get a quote. As much as $35,000 in as few as five days. Oh, and did I mention, we’ll give you a $50 VISA gift card. Just when you get your loan. Just as a thank you. A $50 VISA gift card with your low interest loan, fixed rates, up to $35,000 in as few as five days., we thank them so much for making Windows Weekly possible with Paul, Mary Jo, the gang. It was so fun when you guys were here after Build. Because I felt like we kind of entered, became partners with all, with the Windows community, the podcast community. Peter Bright, of course he’s been on before, the great guys at .NET Rocks!, Carl and is it Richard? Robert?

Paul: Yep.

Mary Jo: Richard.

Leo: And I always call him Robert for some reason.

Mary Jo: I know (laughing).

Leo: It was just really fun.

Paul: I was able to repeat the whiskey event in Chicago with Richard, it was a long night.

Leo: (laughing) I still, he said, Richard said drink, what was it, the angels something. He said, it was a bourban he brought, he said that’s the one you’re going to like. And I have saved it. Hey, some really good news, and the reason I bring this up, perhaps you heard at the beginning of the show, we have replaced what was a great theme for many years, how many years have we done this show?

Paul: Oh, so this is going to be the one.

Leo: This is the one. 413, 412 episodes, which is something like eight years, almost exactly eight years in fact. We were using Derick’s great music, but it’s, you know, it’s nice to change it. And Carl Franklin is an amazing musician, and he gave us a new theme that is, according to Paul’s specs, kind of a, how did you describe it, Paul?

Paul: It reminds me of that, it’s like a Sammy Haagar song, sort of like Mas Tequila or something. It’s like kind of rock/chant kind of songs. I like it a lot.

Leo: I do too, let me play just a little bit of it so you can, I mean you heard it at the beginning of the show, I guess, but Alex said he sent me a copy, this is from, it’s called “Adreneline,” ladies and gentlemen. I like that. Hey! It’s so good. So Carl Franklin, thank you, .NET Rocks! he gave it to us free of charge, he’s a great musician, but you should buy his stuff. Yea, I love it, organ, and these are real instruments, right? Carl plays the guitar, he plays the keyboards.

Paul: Yea, he’s the real deal.

Leo: He’s a talented guy.

Paul: It’s not a garage band, here.

Leo: I wonder who the “Hey!’s” are? Is that him, do you think?

Mary Jo: Or his brother, maybe. He plays with his brother.

Leo: Oi! I want to hear Oi! Oi!

Paul: That’s the version for the UK.

Leo: I love it. Alright, so the new Windows Weekly theme, thank you Carl, thank you .NET Rocks! everybody should listen. A little more, a little more fun in your Windows Weekly every week. Let’s see. Did we talk about security on Edge at all? Do you want to still address that?

Mary Jo: Well, no.

Leo: No? Let’s talk OneDrive then, because we use OneDrive.

Paul: We don’t care about security, Leo.

Leo: No, the hell with security. I want to be, I want to live. I want to be the James Dean of the internet.

Mary Jo: Yea, let’s talk about OneDrive.

Leo: Alright.

Mary Jo: A hot topic.

Leo: We use it a lot here, and Surface Pro is, well, Surface in general is made for OneDrive. They’re almost like OneDrive machines. Paul says, “That’s an interesting point of view, Leo.”

Paul: You believe that, do you, sir?

Leo: I do, I do.

Mary Jo: At Ignite in Chicago, Microsoft did a session about the future of OneDrive. And in that session they reiterated some of the things they had talked about before, whoops…

Leo: I think Terry Myerson’s on line one, Ms. Foley.

Mary Jo: I know, my phone is ringing. They reiterated some of the things that they had said a little more vaugely than they had before about how they plan to bring together OneDrive Consumer and OneDrive for Business, and sync them up. But they actually had a road map slide up at Ignite where they got a lot more detailed about what’s coming when with this big merger plan. So, some of the things that were on that road map slide, they talked about adding a new mobile PDF capability for Android and iOS versions of OneDrive, they’re adding a save to OneDrive for Business, and also Outlook Web Access feature for OneDrive. So they’re adding all these incremental features to make OneDrive for Busniess, OneDrive Consumer look and feel more alike. But the big thing that everybody’s waiting for is this coming shared OneDrive Consumer / OneDrive for Business sync client. And we’re supposed to see a preview of that sync client in Q3 at some point. That’s going to be for Windows and for Mac, and then in Q4 they actually expect to make that sync client generally available for Windows and Mac. What else? A Windows 10 universal OneDrive app is coming that will support both OneDrive Consumer and OneDrive for Business. So they have a whole bunch of things that they’re going to be doing before the end of this year. They also talked, and Paul can probably talk more about this, about a feature that is about bringing files, bringing your files offline. And I think if I recall, Paul is wondering if this might be what they are doing as a replacement for placeholders, because as you know, they are deprecating that, and a lot of people are upset about that whole taking away of the placeholders stuff. But I asked them that, and they said that has nothing to do with that, that this is not the replacement for placeholders. But still, being able to do this selective sync where you determine which folders you want to take offline and you can specify that, that’s coming as well, as part of this whole roadmap. A lot of good news, a lot of OneDrive good news.

Paul: Here’s my, this is, well, it was a little hard to understand, but, my understanding of how they are going to handle the offline folders part is, you’ll see this in mobile apps, right, and so when you’re on a mobile app, you’ll see the stuff that is only in the could. And for Windows 10 what that means is they’re going to ship a universal app similar to the OneDrive app we’ve had for a long time, you know in Windwos 8, that will handle both OneDrive and OneDrive for Business. And it will show you the folders and things that are offline, whereas when you’re in the shell you can only see the things that are, I’m reversing terms I guess, you’ll see only the terms that you’ve synced to your PC, the files and folders. So, hopefully what the universal app will have is the ability to navigate around what’s only in the cloud, so I guess those are online files, sorry, and right click on something and say sync, right? And then it would appear in the file system. It’s not perfect. But it would, at least give you a place on the PC to do this. Because the way it works now if you have Windows 7 or Windows 8.0 or the Mac or Windows 10, actually, is you can only see your full allotment of folders in OneDrive, and it’s only OneDrive Consumer, when you go into, you know, you kind of right click on the little icon, and you go to OneDrive Storage, actually, that’s not the right thing, you go to, I’m in the wrong OS version so I can’t see what it is, but you can basically choose which folders to sync, and it’s a terrible interface, it’s like a stupid little window where you can kind of expand and contract folder structures, and what they need is something where you can see it in a nice interface, at the very least. And I think that that will do that, I don’t have the schedule in front of me, but I believe that universal app is the forth quarter of this year or something.

Mary Jo: It is, yep.

Leo: Alright, I guess opening mine wouldn’t help, I’m on a Mac.

Paul: Well, it’s the same on the Mac, and so on the Mac, you have the ability, it’s a choose folders interface.

Leo: It’s just crap is what you’re saying.

So if you go to settings or whatever you have choose folders. And Windows 8.1, which is the system that I have here, this is where you have placeholders, which is wonderful, because I can go into my OneDrive folder in file explorer, and I can see everything, regardless of whether it’s online or offline.

Leo: Ah, that’s that way you want it.

Paul: It’s so awesome.

Leo: It will never be that way on the Mac, though. And that makes sense on Windows.

Paul: The system that’s on the Mac is what they’re doing everywhere going forward, so Windows 10 will be like a Mac.

Leo: Oh, ok, ok.

Paul: Which is irritating.

Leo: Yea, really. We don’t want to, isn’t the best experience supposed to be on Windows? Come, on.

Paul: Oh, Leo, that’s so 1998.

Leo: No, I believe Mr. Nadella said that. We’ll be everywhere you want, but the best version will always be on Windows, right?

Paul: So, that could be true, but it won’t be true in this case.

Leo: Not for OneDrive.

Paul: Yea, not here. I mean they’re doing this for a reason, I mean, that’s sync button doesn’t work for some technical reason we don’t understand, but they’re going to add features that are going to be consistent across clients, and it will be true whether you’re on mobile, or desktop PC, whatever, Mac included, and that includes the ability to you know, go in, yea, this is the interface that I’m talking about. And it’s even worse on the Mac because you get this screwy next step style, you know, what do you call these columns, column view.

Leo: I like it, but I know…

Paul: But it makes it hard to see the big picture.

Leo: Now, could I make it my Dropbox folder, would that be weird?

Pail: Oh, Leo, please. The interface would implode if you did that.

Leo: I think I’m going to do it.

Paul: You’ve deleted the internet!

Leo: Open, login, alright, oh my God, I’m dropboxxing my OneDrive! I’m OneDriving my Dropbox! Agh!

Paul: It’s like go to 10 on a Basic program.

Leo: An infinite loop.

Paul: But they’re going to add the ability to do, you know, shared, files of other people have shared with you for example. So, this is like a thing that people have been begging for for a long time.

Leo: I mean I do have, it says 10.1 TB of storage on my OneDrive, so…

Paul: And actually since you put it inside Dropbox you probably doubled it, I’m not sure on the math on this one, but I assume it has some exponential increase.

Leo: Well, wait a minute, but that means my OneDrive will go to Dropbox. Uh oh. Because that one I have to pay for.

Paul: Right.

Leo: What? I’ve ruined my life.

Paul: You’re next Dropbox bill’s like $1,400. They’re like what happened here?

Leo: 10.3G. Out of 10.1 TB.

Paul: The other thing that came up with OneDrive, and I don’t think it was in the context of this talk that Mary Jo was just discussing, but you know, someone, or maybe it was, maybe it was during the Q&A, someone asked about the where’s infinite storage? You know, you’ve been talking about giving everyone infinite storage. And the story I had heard was that, as you add stuff, they’ll increase it. And I’ve seen that in mine, mine’s gone up to 10TB or so.

Leo: 10TB is as much, I mean over the internet, is virtually….

Paul: That is infinite for argument sakes. But what they’ve said, but this is what people want to see. Available storage, and then like an infinity sign. I think that’s what people will be happy when that appears. And so I believe what he said is that will be rolled out, and maybe it was part of the talk, I don’t remember when this came up, but by the end of the year across both Business and Consumer.

Leo: There will be an infinity sign, fear not.

Paul: Yep, that’s all they want. They want to see it; they’re never going to fill it, just because it’s infinite.

Mary Jo: They want to know they have it.

Leo: 10TB

Paul: They just want to know they have it. And what makes people sign up for Office 365 because you told me that I was going to have unlimited storage.

Leo: People are so… that’s the little lie. That’s the literal on that.

Paul: You are a liar.

Leo: You are a liar, my friend.

Mary Jo: I use less than one percent of my current…

Paul: Yea, I’ve used a lot of it, but I’m never going to fill, I’m not going to fill 10TB, not anytime soon.

Leo: No, no, because remember you have to upload it. It’s not…

Paul: Right, I’ll do it on my deathbed and it will be like winning.

Leo: Hey, I finally got to 10TB…. Where’s my infinite storage?

Paul: Knowing me I’ll get to 99% and then my subscription would lapse and they would just delete everything.

Mary Jo: Exactly.

Leo: Office Universal App previews for Windows Phone 10.

Mary Jo: Yea, you guys wondering where these are, what we’ve been talking about?

Leo: Where are they?

Paul: Because they promised them by the end of April, is that why you’re asking?

Leo: Oh, that.

Mary Jo: Yea, that’s why I’m asking. So, these are the Word, Excel, Power Point, OneNote and Outlook also, I think, individual universal apps that you want on your Windows 10 mobile device if you’re running the preview. They were supposed to be out at the end of April, then they were supposed to be out the first week of May, and now we’re into the second week of May and we don’t know where they are still. They’re still not out. I am starting to wonder if they are going to come out with the next build of Windows 10 Mobile for Phones. Which could be tomorrow, possibly, based on a Gabe Aul tweet, maybe it will come with that, maybe it will come right after that version is out. I’ve been asking and we don’t know where they are right now, and we don’t know why they aren’t out. So, that’s all we can tell you at this point, for all the people who keep asking me where these are. They’re coming soon, I keep hearing that.

Paul: They’re going to be awesome.

Leo: They’ll be so great. You know what, we got the demo of it, is the Skype Translator, which is so cool, it lets you do a two way Skype call and it does simultaneous translation. And I see that we are about to get it. Is that right?

Mary Jo: Yep, if you’re on Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 preview, you can now just sign up for this Skype Translator preview, without having to go through an approval process or wait. So that you’ll right away be able to test the four languages they’re testing it with, which are English, Mandarin, Italian and Spanish. Those are the only languages you can test it with if you want to do the real time video and audio Skype translation. You know, that means somebody’s talking to you in Mandarin and it’s translating it to you in English if you’re an English speaker in real time, near real time.

Paul: What do you think would happen if I ran Skype Translator preview and Skype at the same time?

Leo: It would be like putting Dropbox in your OneDrive.

Paul: Yes it would.

Mary Jo: Worlds would collide. So obviously, this is a Windows Store app, people are asking me if you can use the desktop version, there is no desktop version. It’s just a modern/historic version.

Leo: That’s interesting. They’ll be a Windows store version eventually, right?

Mary Jo: There’ll only be the Windows Store I believe.

Leo: I mean a desktop version, no?

Mary Jo: I don’t think that you…

Paul: I bet that this turns into a universal app over time.

Leo: Oh, well that will solve it.

Mary Jo: Because, yea, they said it’s going at some point be available on Android and iOS, too, we just don’t know when that will happen. And the other cool thing is if you want to try doing instant, instant messaging translation in real time, they support fifty languages now on that, so you can just go and try the instant messaging piece of the translation if you don’t want to do the other.

Leo: That’s cool, that’s really cool. Although, Google’s had that text based version for some time, right?

Paul: Yea, I mean, I think the really cool bit here is the speaking part where you can talk, it’s like a Babel Fish kind of thing.

Leo: Flying Roaches says, “I’ve installed it, now I’m going to have the kids call grandma and confuse her.” Bonjourno!

Paul: I don’t think it translates your text into an arbitrary language. Can I randomize how I sound to the other person?

Leo: Do you have to, so does it decide on the language based on what it hears?

Paul: That’s a good question.

Leo: Or do you set it, you must set it. And that’s Windows, Windows only, Windows 8.

Mary: Yea, right now, the preview is in Windows only.

Leo: Nice incentive to run out and get a Windows laptop. You could talk to grandma in four different languages but you can’t do it on a Mac. But you can’t do it on Windows 7, only on Windows 8.

Mary Jo: Or 10.

Leo: Or 10.

Paul: It’s fun.

Leo: Nobody’s using 10.

Mary Jo: I think, how many people? 1.3 million, or 3.1 million.

Leo: Wow, fascinating. That’s a good number.

Mary Jo: It’s pretty big, how many people are crazy enough to run this.

Leo: Well, it’s enough to feel like you’re going to get a good Beta test, right?

Mary Jo: Yea, definitely.

Leo: 3 million people, that’s enough. They did update the Office Apps for the iPad and the iPhone, however.

Mary Jo: Paul? They did?

Paul: Yes they did. Is there anything else I need to say about that?

Leo: Nothing.

Mary Jo: What did they do with them, though? Because they didn’t announce this, you just found this.

Paul: No, they did a little thing, or actually no, did they have a blog? I don’t remember if they had a blog post. So, back at Build, you may remember this was kind of funny, between 90 minutes of Azure coverage in the keynote, and then an hour and plus of Windows, there was like a seven minute little thing about Office, right, remember that? And one of the things they announced was something pretty amazing. It’s too bad it got so squished in between these big things. But it was that they were going to move their add-ons from the desktop version of Office Apps to the Mobile Apps. And so one of the things that’s in this update is the very first one, which is Excel, only for the iPad, now supports Office Add-Ons, and so if there’s an Excel Add-On for the desktop version of Excel for Windows, you can add it to Excel on the iPad now, which is pretty amazing when you think about it. And then there’s a couple of other small things across the apps, they support iCloud Drive, which is Apple’s service, and then Word and Power Point got a couple of minor updates as well that are specific to those apps. But, you know, I think that the big one in some ways is this stealth release of the add-on model for mobile apps for the first time. I think it’s kind of a big deal, it’s really cool.

Leo: I’m kind of a big deal.

Paul: Do I really sound like that?

Leo: No.

Paul: Thank you.

Leo: I have a t-shirt that says that. And now for business, Power BI.

Paul: Guess who’s going to talk about this one.

Mary Jo: I mean, you could if you want to.

Leo: He knows all about it, come one. Paul’s sandbagging. He’s an expert on business intelligence.

Mary Jo: He is, he’s just kidding. He knows this like the back of his hand.

Leo: Absolutely, he just chooses not to.

Mary Jo: Power Point … he does.

Paul: I wear gloves, Mary Jo.

Mary Jo: (laughing) Power BI, Microsoft’s Business Intelligence Service, if you recall back in January they said they’re, they’re basically working on a new version of it with a lot of updated features plus a free tier for people who just want to try it for free and use it for free completely. It’s part of the whole premium business model thing, but. They needed a new version of their Windows App to run against the service and that app is now out. You can go to the Windows Store and download the new Power BI app for Windows. It’s an updated version that lets you do all kinds of cool things with data analysis and graphing. So, if you want to see things like dashboards, or you want to see your data being put automatically into different kinds of charts, you can see all of this through this new app. It obviously a modern app. But it’s not a universal app. It doesn’t run yet on a Windows Phone. So this is not, they’ve also promised a universal version of Power BI. This is not that. This is just an interim version, but still worth getting. It’s free, downloadable from the store, and you can use it against the preview of the Power BI service that came out in January. So it’s worth, it’s worth a look.

Leo: Good. And, ok, so, let’s see, Mary Jo got one.

Paul: Just as an aside, I just want to point out that there used to be a collection of tools for Excel that had the phrase power BI in them, and they’ve removed that name because people are scared by power BI. So, now they just call it tools for Excel.

Leo: Wow.

Mary Jo: Oh really? I never knew that. That’s a nice…

Paul: It just happened. It just happened.

Leo: See, Paul did have something to say.

Mary Jo: See, he did.

Paul: And surprisingly it wasn’t very positive.

Leo: Oh, but he’s so happy about the Xbox update May thing.

Paul: So this one isn’t as huge as some of the more recent monthly updates have been, or let’s see, what does Mary Jo call it? The Xbox May Update thingy.

Leo: That was Mary Jo. Oh, now I understand.

Mary Jo: Sorry. I guess it was a placeholder.

Leo: She doesn’t understand, she just doesn’t understand us, Paul.

Paul: Not everything they talked about for May actually made it into this update. But, the couple that did, because that happens from month to month, you know, sometimes they’ll test features, they don’t quite make it along far enough for the general public, so it gets held back a month. But, voice messages through the messages app, which is kind of cool. Obviously you can message people while the thing is snapped, while you’re playing the game or whatever, but now you can also leave messages if the person isn’t there. And actually I think the big feature there is that it works between the consoles. So if you have a, people on a 360, people on an Xbox One, they can still communicate together. So it’s nice. If you’re using the Smart Class App on a mobile device, like a Windows Phone, iPhone, or whatever, to you know, sort of like a glorified remote control for your Xbox One, you can now extend that to power the console on or off from the app, which is pretty cool, because that wasn’t possible before. So now it becomes more of a complete solution if using it in that vein. And the other two don’t really impact too many people, there’s a party chat feature. If you use Xbox online you know that there are issues with NATraversal, we’ve seen this for multi-player games and for other things, where, depending on the security settings on your router, you might have problems communicating or getting into games, and so they’ve fixed those over the years, but they still have problems with chat. And so they’ve set up a dedicated server system for party chat, and that’s actually rolling out over time. So that’s been in preview for a long time. I think this is a complex, technical issue. But starting this month it will start rolling out to normal, non-preview users. So some people, you won’t really see it, it’s, stuff just works. You know, you don’t really notice it as a feature. And the other one is that power mode thing. You know, the Xbox One by default goes into instant on mode where you can walk up to it while it’s asleep and say, “Xbox on,” and it comes right on. Plus it can download updates in the background while it’s off, which is kind of useful. The problem is it uses power. So some people would prefer to have the system just turn off and turn on normally like any device. And you can set it to do that, but now with this update, new Xbox consoles will offer that as an option during setup. And so, when you’re first setting up the machine, it will say, hey, these are the two power management options, you know, here are the pros and cons, which one do you want? So you just can kind of pick that. It’s not really a huge deal, but.

Leo: No it is for me, because it’s been a pain in the butt.

Paul: Well, you know what, here’s the problem. Both of these things were a pain in the butt.

Leo: There’s not a perfect solution, I get that.

Paul: Right, that’s the problem. A perfect solution would be, well, not perfect, but I think one maybe interim solution, or a solution that would be in the middle of these two things would be for the Xbox to pop on at one o’clock in the morning or whatever, check for updates, and then power down. I think that would actually solve, you know, maybe 90% of this, but.

Leo: Yes, that would be good.

Paul: That would be in the June system update.

Leo: Oh, man.

Paul: Someday. Anyway, that’s the Xbox May update thingy.

Leo: Thank you.

Mary Jo: Good to know.

Leo: Well done. Mary Jo, so glad.

Mary Jo: I’m glad we covered that.

Leo: So glad we covered the next Xbox update thingy. The job is done. Job done. Alright, I think we’re going to take a break because the back of the book is rapidly approaching, like an oncoming train. Somebody in the chatroom’s asking though, maybe I should give you this one, Paul, from CyberGWJ, he just got a new Xbox One, wants to know, “How do you get in the insider program?” The beta, do they call it insider on Xbox? Or beta?

Paul: No, it’s the Xbox One Preview Program. And you can’t sign up for it anymore, I think you have to be invited.

Leo: I don’t think I could sign up for it, I think you just look in your mail.

Paul: I think people are randomly e-mailed, if they’re in, I think.

Leo: Do you think there is, like there’s some basis for how it happens, like oh I see this person buys a lot of games, or is it something like that?

Paul: Now when it first started you could sign up, and they would pick from those people that signed up. And now I think it’s just… I do wish, I do think it should be like the insider program. I think that people who want to be in it should be able to be in it. I guess the issue is, when you think about the Xbox 360, no sorry, the Xbox One Community, these people tend to be enthusiasts, and I bet some vast majority of the people would join. And maybe that’s against the point of it. But yea, it’s too bad, it’s too bad that you couldn’t just sign up for it.

Leo: Right, right. Our show today, thank you for the answer, I’m sure our cyber-dude is happy. Our show today is brought to you by, and we’re really glad.

Paul: Finally.

Leo: Finally. Paul’s a huge, Paul and I both are Audible fanatics. And Paul, every show he puts his Audible pick…

Paul: Yep, and I just pushed it forward to the next week.

Leo: Let me explain what Audible is first, then we’ll get Paul’s pick of the week. It’s a, of course, the place to go for audio books. I don’t even know if there is a close number two, it dominates. And it is so great. When I first started listening to audio books, it was part of this long commute I had to Tech TV in the city, and this was probably 1999. I would get them from a company that would send me a box of cassettes, and it would be like twenty cassettes and you’d only have a month, so you’d like really have to listen. And if one of the cassettes was broken, which happened, well, fairly frequently, you’d have to mail it back and get a replacement. And, of course, you wouldn’t know that it’s broken until you got to that cassette, and then it’s like oh, no, I can’t listen to my book. And I was so pleased when Audible came out. And it came out at a time when people didn’t have MP3 players. They actually had their own audio player. My first audio device was an early MP3 player before the iPod, the Diamond Rio, remember that?

Paul: Yep.

Leo: I used to listen on that, and it was such a, it was so great. Of course, that was in 2000, when I first started listening. The iPod came out shortly after that, I listened on iPods. Now I listen on everything, in fact, I pretty much put the Audible app on every phone, every tablet, everywhere, because I always want to be able to listen. 180,000 titles now available on, all the best sellers, everything new, plus they’ve gone back in time and re-recorded book that where never put, especially a lot of science fiction, were never put on audio. Their celebrating the 25th anniversary of Jurassic Park right now…

Paul: And oh, by the way, this is on my wish list. I’ve been dying to check this out. It’s not coming out until June, right?

Leo: Oh, it’s not out now? I thought it was.

Paul: No, it’s Jurassic Park? No, it’s a new version then.

Leo: Oh, yea, Scott Brick’s reading it, yea.

Paul: Yep.

Leo: Oh, I’m bummed, I didn’t notice that.

Paul: I know, that’s why I’m waiting.

Leo: Well, we both love Crichton. So that’s a good example. They actually re-record stuff all the time, which is nice, because you know, you get to, but one of the things when you are an Audible member is you, your library is always good, right, so you can go back, I listen, I have 500 books in my library.

Paul: My library is great. It’s not just good, it’s great.

Leo: It is. I just love it. Anyway, I think it is out.

Paul: Actually that says it is out.

Leo: Yea, go get it.

Paul: I literally just watched these movies again because I saw this on Audible.

Leo: Well, the new movie’s coming out, maybe that’s what you’re thinking of.”

Paul: So this must, no but, ok. This must have just become available.

Leo: So if you want to join Audible, they’ve got a deal, a Windows Weekly deal, it’s You’re going to sign up for the book a month account, that’s the gold account, but you’ll get it free for the first month. That means your first book is free. You’ll also get the daily digest, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. And the reason we like to do picks, is well, you’re going to get your first book for free, so what should it be? And I know it’s overwhelming with 180,000 titles, so you, when you were travelling all around, I’m sure you brought Audible with you, gosh knows.

Paul: Oh yes. By the way, I think this Jurassic Park is shipped Tuesday.

Leo: Oh, ok. Good.

Paul: Yes, so, I drove across the country recently.

Leo: No, you’re absolutely right. Today.

Paul: Yea, because I remember I looked twice, I wanted desperately to listen to this.

Leo: Yea, awesome.

Paul: So, I will add that to my nominal but just get it. But, anyway. So, yea, so I drove halfway across the country with my dad, but we just kind of talked that whole time. And then when I dropped him off at the airport…

Leo: Thank God he’s out of the car, I can listen…

Paul: Yea, and then I kept to my own thoughts for about 7 minutes, and that was enough of that, then I turned on Audible. So, I think a couple weeks ago I talked about this notion of there are some good books in our industry in Audible, and I actually forgot one, and I re-listened to this, it’s really good. The book “Dogfight: How Apple and Google Went to War.”

Leo: Ah, isn’t it good, I love that book.

Paul: One of the reasons I like it is because it’s modern. It’s about something that has, is still happening, really, and it is just a great story. But I also, I since we’re doing a throwback Thursday about Wolfenstein 3D, listened to Masters of Doom, which is the story of its offer, and also incredible and a great reading by Wil Wheaton, by Wesley.

Leo: Wesley Crusher.

Paul: Wesley Crusher. And I also finished off, I had been listening to this, it’s a long one, “Just After Sunset,” which is a mix, oh sorry, a collection of short stories by Stephen King, some of which are fantastic. All read by different people as well. Which is kind of cool, I like those kind of books. So, that’s as much time as I had in the car.

Leo: That’s so funny that you didn’t listen to a new book, you went back to books you love.

Paul: Well, like I said, I, well I mean I read Jurassic Park obviously, twenty years ago or something…

Leo: No, but that’s cool, I think that’s really cool.

Paul: I wanted Jurassic Park, but I was reminded, I was looking through my library for industry books, and I realized I had forgotten “Dogfight,” and I was like you know, I really want to hear that one again. And I had never listened to “Just After Sunset.”

Leo: Yea, Fred Vogelstein, such a good book. Highly recommend it. But here’s the deal. You got a challenge, you get to pick one. One free right now. please sign up today, you’re going to love it and we thank them for not only supporting Windows Weekly, but frankly making a service that we just love. Just love.

Paul: Yea, and as you were talking, I bought Jurassic Park.

Leo: Yay!

Paul: Well, I had a credit, I used a credit.

Leo: Yea, and I’m waiting for my new credits, I have zero credits right now. The minute I do that’s the one. Scott Brick is a great narrator, here I’ll play a little bit for you, give you, put you in the mood here.

Scott Brick: (excerpt from Jurassic Park) “…Dr. Cruise said, lowering the plastic flap of the oxygen tent around Tina as she slept. Mike Bowman sat beside the bed close to his daughter. Mike thought Dr. Cruise was probably pretty capable; he spoke excellent English. But the result of training at medical centers in London and Baltimore, Dr. Cruise radiated competence…”

Leo: I love it.

Paul: It’s funny because this guy had done the second book of the Jurassic Park story, years ago.

Leo: Yea, Scott’s great. But don’t listen to the second one because it’s a terrible book.

Paul: No, just listen to the first. Well, the second one is actually kind of a terrible book, as I recall.

Leo: Yea, I think I just said that. I think you’re absolutely right. Do not. Alright Paul, your pick, or tip of the week.

Paul: That was my pick, oh I’m sorry, that wasn’t my tip.

Leo: Ten more Audible books.

Paul: We kind of walked through the tip, as just kind of a news story. But, the tip is, you know, understating what you’re going to get for free when you upgrade to Windows 10. In other words if you’re on whatever version of Windows, you know, what are you going to get. And it’s fairly straight forward. I mean, obviously if you are on Windows Phone, you’re getting Windows 10 Mobile. And there are a lot of questions here, but I, you know, again, I have to kind of qualify this because we don’t have the exact answer, but I would imagine if you’re on a home version of Windows, Windows 7 Home Basic, or Home Premium, or Windows 8 whatever core, 8.1 core I guess, you would get Windows 10 Home. I think this is how it’s going to work. If you have a pro version or up, you know, Windows 7 or 8.1 Pro, or Windows 7 Ultimate, I think you’re going to get a, you know, Windows 10 Pro. But I kind of go through the questions and all that, but I have an article up on the site about that. But we talked through much of that, so I don’t think we need to belabor it here again.

Leo: Not at all.

Paul: And then my software pick is, some software I’ve been talking about for a while, and Mary Jo, when she went away a couple of months ago, wrote, used this to provide pictures and information about her trip off of Sway. And so, because I copy everything that Mary Jo does, I have now done this for my road trip. So I have a Sway, as it’s called, it’s just pictures, I don’t really, not a lot of text, but I kind of provided a map for each day of the drive, you know, a photo, I’m sorry, a little photo slide show of that day, I took pictures each day from the car. And so I drove from Las Vegas, Nevada to Dedham in four days.

Leo: How do you advance this, do I press the space bar? Or…

Paul: No, you just scroll down. So each day has sort of like a heading, and then there’s a map, and then that thing under there is a slide show. I couldn’t make those photos bigger, I don’t know, I tried every style but these are the, this is what I could do, so, you know.

Leo: That was fun, did you enjoy going for a road trip with your dad?

Paul: Yea, yea it was a good time. You know, we did a lot of talking, and you know, I get to see him maybe two to three times a year and I’ve actually driven cross country with him before, about five years ago, in fact, there’s a story from that trip that I used in my Windows Phone Book because I had an iPhone at the time, and I knew Windows 10 was coming, or that Windows Phone was coming, rather, and that Windows Phone would support that pocket to picture thing, where you could pull it out and just click the button and get going, you didn’t have to login and everything. And, while we were driving we saw some deer, and he’s like, “Quick, take a picture.” And by the time I fumbled the iPhone out of my pocket, signed in, and then found the camera and everything, I got a picture of the deer’s butt, and that was it, because, you know, there were probably five of them standing there, and by the time I got it out they were all taking off. And I remember thinking, with a Windows Phone I could have captured that.

Leo: That’s true.

Paul: iPhone’s improved since then, obviously, and it’s much quicker, it was just an interesting thing from five years ago. But yea, it was good, it was good, we hit a lot of weather, we hit some beautiful snow up in Colorado, like if you go to the next day, actually, it was really the prettiest one. Going over the Continental Divide there was incredible. And the pictures from this day are just nuts, or some of them are anyway. Because you kind of go up and there’s like fog, and you go into the fog and it’s like a Stephen King story. And then this beautiful, and then it’s full bloom winter up at the top, they had snow the night before. This is really neat.

Leo: This is a very good use. And you took these all with a Windows Phone? Oh my God, chicken fried steak!

Paul: Yep, I also had chicken and dumplings at Cracker Barrel.

Leo: I was going to say, this is almost as good as Cracker Barrel, I think was your

Paul: Yea, yea, yep.

Leo: Oh my God, white gravy. That’ll kill you.

Paul: There’s not anything on that plate that isn’t white, Leo. Look at that thing.

Leo: OMG. You eat that every morning for breakfast, you’re going to live to be about fifty.

Mary Jo: How did you find using this, Paul? Did you find it hard to make a Sway? Did you find hard to make a Sway?

Paul: So I didn’t use many of the features, right, all I did was put pictures into it with a little bit of text, so it was really basic. I found it, you know it’s a new thing, so it was interesting. I mean, there are buttons for, when you put in pictures as a group you can group them as a thing, and then you can make that thing a slide show or kind of a flipping dock kind of thing. You can emphasize some pictures, which do or do not make sense depending on the style of layout that you choose.

Mary Jo: I was like, haha, I think I dumped a glass of water onto my keyboard, I was like yikes!

Paul: So, there’s a lot more going on in Sway then what I’ve used it for. I think, like anything else it takes a little getting used to. Is that why you asked, did you find it to be difficult?

Mary Jo: Well, I think because you are very handy with things like Photo Shop and I am not, I wonder if it was too easy or too basic for you? Like for me, it’s great, because I don’t, I’m not a PowerPoint jockey at all. So for me it’s much easier than that.

Paul: So what I would say is, I had too many pictures to just have picture, picture, picture, picture. It would have been too big of a thing. And so, when I put them into those little slideshows, I think the thing that disappointed me was, you could have a giant photo as a background for some kind of a heading, and you could have a single photo that was pretty big, but once you put them into a slide show, they were this tiny, and there was no way to change that. You could click on it to display those things full screen, and that’s cool, but I think I would have appreciated a little more, I would have made those the width of the other pictures and had them be big, you know, but I didn’t have that choice. And you can, I played with re-mix for a little while, you can do that manually where you can, you know, the story that Sway is, kind of goes side to side, right, instead of up and down, and it’s interesting, but, I just wanted to keep it pretty basic for this one. I think that when I go away in the summer now, we’re going to Ireland in July, and we’re going to France in August. I’ll probably do this again as the way I share the stuff publically. I like it, I just, I don’t, I need to learn more about it.

Leo: There’s always the tradeoff between ease of use and flexibility, and so this is obviously the ease of use side of that. But the question really is, for somebody who’s a pro, is this too simple?

Paul: I don’t think it’s too simple. I think, well first of all, it has improved dramatically, right, since day one. So I’ve only done it, I’ve only used it for one thing, I mean, so it’s, you know, it is what it is, but.

Leo: And it’s all the way back, holy cow. Did you do this, I’m sorry if you said, did you do this on a computer, or did you do this on the phone?

Paul: I did it on a computer. The other option is I could do it on an iPhone, but I didn’t do it until I got home. So, I’m not sure I would have done it, I guess I should try doing that.

Leo: That might be one of the most interesting uses is, it’s all on your phone. You take a picture on your phone.

Paul: Yea, if you’re, when you’re out and about, I was too, I didn’t have time to do anything, I drove all day long, right, so these drives were all, mostly were twelve hours-ish, you know one day…

Leo: You’ve got two hands.

Paul: (laughing) so, right, I’m not always driving, my father did drive part of the way. I didn’t, I sort of thought as I went through this trip that I would do a Sway. I never had the time when we arrived wherever we got at the end of the night or whatever. I never wanted to open a computer.

Leo: That’s the thing, it’s not just time, its like, do I really want to sit down and do this?

Paul: Yea, it’s initiative. Like when I get home I’ll do this. And that’s what I did, but.

Leo: And how long did it take you?

Paul: Maybe an hour.

Leo: Not bad, not bad.

Paul: I mean the stuff’s all on OneDrive, so, as you take the pictures, they’re all syncing to OneDrive, right, so when I go to do this thing, it’s in the cloud. The first source that comes up when you save photo is OneDrive, so that’s the default you see the thumbnails on the side. They’re all there. I didn’t have to do anything, they’re all in order, you know, they’re all in the right order, and all that. It was pretty good. I mean I took screen shots of the map, and I went to, you know, I used Google Maps to navigate on the trip, so I went to Google Maps and made sure it was the way I actually drove, you know, and took a picture of each one of those things.

Leo: Looks nice.

Mary Jo: Yea.

Leo: I like it. It is a little frustrating, or it must be a little frustrating that the only mobile version is on iPhone.

Paul: Leo, I have no comments about that (laughing). I don’t know what you mean.

Leo: What am I talking about?

Paul: I love the iPhone. And I think that Microsoft is right to only support the iPhone.

Leo: It’s just weird. That’s just weird. Especially since that’s a crowded, on the iPhone it’s crowded category, I’m sure on Windows Phone it is too.

Paul: I am surprised, they announced this like October 1st of last year, if I’m not mistaken, and here we are, its 6 or 8 months later, and I’m really surprised we haven’t seen a Windows app, and Android app, you know, I had expected by this point, I didn’t mind them going on iPhone first. I’m surprised we haven’t seen more in the way of apps.

Mary Jo: It did just announce though, Sway is being integrated into Office 365, so if you have an Office 365 business subscription, I think…

Paul: Yea, you can privately host these things.

Mary Jo: Yea, you can do that. Which is cool.

Paul: Actually that is pretty cool. Yea.

Leo: A love for the Microsoft crowd. Mary Jo Foley, Enterprise time! Yay!

Mary Jo: SharePoint, people. You don’t remember, we haven’t talked about SharePoint in forever. SharePoint, SharePints, SharePoint for people who drink, SharePint. Finally we’re getting some news about the next on-premises version of SharePoint, which is called SharePoint Server 2016. And at Ignite, this was a really big theme. There were a lot of sessions about SharePoint, a couple of things I want to highlight, because there were so many sessions, if you haven’t seen them, you should go on Microsoft’s Channel 9, find the Ignite Sessions, do a filter for SharePoint and you can see them all. And they’re free. Anybody, even if you didn’t go to the conference, you can go look at all these sessions and the slides and everything. The couple of things I’ll highlight from these sessions, one is the timeline. Microsoft’s going to make a private preview build of SharePoint 2016 available this summer. At the end of this year there’s going to be a public beta that anybody can get into. And they’re saying they’re going to ship the actual final bits for this in the second quarter of 2016. So now we know the timeline. A thing that was a bit confusing at the show that I saw various tweets about was whether Microsoft’s going to bring Dell and its office graph technology to SharePoint. Like are these things going to be available as part of the next build of SharePoint. The answer is no, because these are technologies that are cloud dependent. But what they are going to do, which is very interesting, is they’re going to build a capability so that if you have some of your data stored in SharePoint, some files or documents or whatever else you have up in your SharePoint Server, you’re going to be able to access the data that’s in there from SharePoint Online. So that means if you’re, instead of having two different sets of data when you search, and you’re trying to connect up the entities, and make sure that you have a consistent picture and delve in how things are connected, you’re going to be able to get data from not just SharePoint 2016, but also SharePoint 2013, and pull that data in so when you look at the picture, it looks kind of like a flip board when you look at it, you’ll be seeing a consistent set of data searching and getting a consistent set of results on data inside your company even if it’s on those servers. So that was a bit confusing, a bit convoluted at the show, but there’s a whole bunch of other content if you want to look at it about new capabilities that are coming, what they’re doing around the old performance point technology and how they’re integrating that into SharePoint. There’s just a whole lot of stuff. They’re not breaking any brand new ground with the new version of SharePoint Server, they’re staying in those same areas where it’s always covered. But they’re definitely kind of tweaking those capabilities and revving them, and they are going to have a new release out next year. If you care, go look at channel 9, there’s just a lot of stuff. I can’t even start to do it justice. But, I have a blog post on my site with a few bits and pieces, if you have other questions, there are many, many people who went to these sessions. I would say they were among the most popular sessions at Ignite, so there’s plenty of people who can help you on Twitter, or I can direct you, too, if you need more help.

Leo: Great.

Mary Jo: It’s a big topic. SharePoint, it’s like one of those giant servers. It’s like six servers in one, there’s just so much information, hard to keep up, really. Oh, and I should mention one other thing. There’s a myth that Microsoft’s not going to do any more version of SharePoint Server after next year, like that SharePoint Server is the end of the road. It is not, sorry, not the end of the road. There’s going to be more SharePoints coming, on premises, in the future. Microsoft says for the foreseeable future. And the reason is, there are some things that people can’t put in the cloud, especially for compliance reasons. And Microsoft knows this. So, don’t believe if you see any of those Clickbait headlines saying, “This is the end of SharePoint.” It is not.

Paul: This seems like a theme.

Mary Jo: It kind of does on this show, doesn’t it? Fighting the Clickbait headlines that are declaring death on different products.

Leo: I’m going to call this show, “I’m Not Dead Yet!”

Paul: Right.

Leo: Codename pick of the week.

Mary Jo: Codename pick of the week is Project Margherita. Did you hear about this at Build, Paul? I did not.

Leo: It’s my favorite kind of pizza.

Mary Jo: I found out about it by watching a session that was on Windows 10 for IOT. And remember, when we were at the Brick House we were talking about all these bridges that Microsoft’s building, universal Window’s platform bridges. There’s Centennial, and there’s Westminster, these are all bridges and ways to get technologies onto the Windows Platform. So there’s another bridge that we didn’t know about. It’s called Project Margherita. And it’s kind of a stretch to call this thing a bridge, but what it is, is a way to bring together Windows Phone with Arduino Boards.

Leo: Whoa! I like that! I like the sound of that, I’m not sure what it means, use the phone to control the Arduino?

Mary Jo: Yea, its cool. Yea, they showed a, they called it Windows Remote Arduinos, so their…

Paul: I saw that on their developer’s site.

Mary Jo: Yea, yea. So the codename for this whole effort of bridging the Arduino technology to Windows Phones is Project Margherita. So I just wanted to throw that out there in case you hear that code name, that’s what that is.

Paul: Can I just take a guess to what the point of this is?

Mary Jo: Yea.

Paul: Because today I spent a bunch of time on the Raspberry Pie version of Windows 10, which doesn’t have an UI per se, you can actually connect it to a screen.

Leo: Is it a command line? Is that it, or?

Paul: Yea, you, well you remote into it, and then you can control if from there. I haven’t explored this very far, but the point is you remote into it. And so I think that’s the point here on Arduino, right, that you can have this essentially headless computer system, and normally you would remote into it with a, you know, a PC, but this capability you could possibly do it with a phone. And I think, that makes a certain amount of sense.

Mary Jo: It does. Yea. Yea, they were talking about how a phone gives you a lot of the components that when you’re building an IOT system, you might want. You know, like the GPS, the camera, the sensors, so by connecting the phone to the board, you’re kind of getting all these things delivered to you in an easier to consume package. This actually, these days, pretty cheap. Like you can get a Lumia for $50 or $60 bucks, right?

Leo: I like that, that’s really a good idea.

Mary Jo: Yep, pretty cool. So if you want to learn more about that, that’s another one of those channel 9 sessions, just look for the Build Sessions, and look for, they’ve got two different ones on Windows for IOT. One of those two.

Paul: Is there a bridge that says Margherita somewhere?

Mary Jo: I don’t know, I wondered that.

Leo: There’s a lake name Margherita, with my name on it.

Paul: It’s the type of bridge that only alcohol could build.

Mary Jo: (laughing) I should have, no it’s spelled like the pizza, right? M-a-r-g-h-e-r-i-t-a. Let’s see, is there a bridge? Yes there is.

Leo: Ah ha!

Mary Jo: Ponte Regina Margherita is one.

Paul: It’s in Italy, then?

Mary Jo: Yep. So I guess, yep, sticking with the bridge theme, there’s a Margherita bridge.

Leo: Margherita – sounds good. I’m moving there now. Let’s do some beer and head for home.

Mary Jo: All right.

Paul: Sounds good to me.

Leo: How many times have I said that?

Mary Jo: So, this week, by the way folks, is American Craft Beer Week.

Leo: Happy Craft Beer Week, Mary Jo!

Mary Jo: Woo hoo! May 11th - 17th.. American Craft Beer Week. So I picked an American Craft Beer, my beer pick of the week, not surprisingly. One of the other beers that I had when I was in Chicago, which is really impossible to get out here on the east coast, but I think it’s available in other places, is from 3 Floyds. 3 Floyds is one of the most famous craft breweries in the United States, if not the world. They’re in Munster, Indiana. Some of their beers are like cult beers; people will go everywhere and collect them and trade for them. Yea, it’s kind of insane. Especially this beer they do called Gumball Head, and there’s another one they call Zombie Dust.

Leo: This is YumYum.

Mary Jo: YumYum is the one I had, though. It’s a really good pale ale from 3 Floyds, just like everything you want in a pale ale. Not too hoppy, nice balance, in fact, I had a number of their beers when I was in Chicago because they’re easy to get there, because it’s close to Munster, Indiana. And all of them were balanced. That’s why, I wish I had found one for Paul, because I know he likes the more balanced, less crazy, insane, hoppy beers. And I would say even their IPA’s that I had were on the balanced side. So if you ever can find anything from 3 Floyds, you should just try it, but especially the YumYum Pale, very nice.

Leo: Sounds very good. You’re making me thirsty. The explosive, juicy hop profile really is turning me on.

Paul: Geez, that doesn’t really sell it.

Mary Jo: You know, when I had it, though, I didn’t think it was overly hoppy. I thought it was a very, it was juicy, yea, juicy, but not like bitter, not bitter.

Paul: Yea, we got to rethink words … there’s a better way.

Leo: Surely you jest. Our show is brought to you each and every Wednesday, 11:00 AM Pacific, 2:00 PM Eastern time, 1800 UTC on We’d love it if you joined us live and in the chatroom, but if you cannot, on demand versions will be made available on request at or wherever you subscribe to the fine programming you find on the internet. Including iTunes, Xbox Music Store, and I think most people now use the podcast app on their mobile device to get their podcasts. Of course, Windows Phone has a nice one. Paul Thurrott is at, that’s the place to find his writings and his coffee cups and his steins.

Paul: My growing collection of logoed merchandise.

Leo: I think merchandise is the future for, t-h-u-r-r-o-t-t, you’ll also find him @thurrott on the Twitter. Mary Jo Foley is easily found at, that’s where she hangs her hat, and on the twitter @maryjo, m-a-r-y-j-o-f-o-l-e-y. Friends, I think you for a great show.

Paul: Thank you, sir.

Leo: And I miss having you here to force feed me alcohol, but we’ll just have to do that another time.

Paul: Spend more time with us, Leo, and you will die a young man.

Leo: My liver thanks you. Thank you, Paul. Thanks, Mary Jo. Thanks to all of you, we’ll see you next time on Windows Weekly! Bye-bye.

All Transcripts posts