Windows Weekly 408 (Transcript)
Leo Laporte: It´s time for Windows Weekly, Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley are here and a very special guest is coming up Gabe Aul from the Windows Insider program, we´ll talk about what´s coming up in fact a big release just a few days off Gabe has the details. We´ll also take a look at all the Microsoft news, it´s time, Windows weekly is next.
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This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley, Episode 408 recorded Wednesday April 8th 2015.
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Leo : It´s time for Windows weekly, the show where we cover Windows weekly and all the stuff that Microsoft´s up to, which these days is a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot. Thankfully we have Mary Jo Foley here, that´s her beat. All about Microsoft.com is her site and she knows more and tells all which is nice. Paul Thurrott on the other hand is a cagey bastard you never know what he knows. Did you ever reveal Paul Thurrott from Thurrott.com and I have the lovely Thurrott cup, in fact let´s do the ritual decanting of my coffee.
Paul Thurrott: Leo did you see the beer steins that we´re going to have at ignite.
Leo: No, you´re going to have a Thurrott stein?
Paul: That´s awesome.
Leo: Wow, just in time for Passover. Here is the Twit cup, I´m going to pour the ritual decanting. It´s going to be everywhere oh God! Just fits.
Paul: You got your Twit on my Thurrott.
Leo: We have a little, tiny spill, nothing to worry about, it´s just on the ad copy so if I screw up you´ll know why. Here comes John, John hates it when I do stuff like that. He´s our studio manager, he says no moisture. Not with microfiber that can be washed. So Paul when you were with us last week you said you knew something but you couldn´t say it till Thursday.
Paul: Well no, okay, so this has been mischaracterized.
Leo: Tell me do.
Paul: No, I went digging in my cellar and came up with a box of old gadgets and I decided to use one of them for my throw back Thursday post on Thursday, and that gadget is this, it was my original Windows Phone from 2010.
Leo: Holy Moly! I have somewhere my Samsung Focus S but that´s a Windows 6 phone right?
Paul: You know what I also have here, I wish that I could find it, it doesn´t work anymore unfortunately, is the first iPhone.
Leo: Look at that!.
Paul: It also has a kind of curiously thick you know.
Leo: Isn´t that amazing. I keep those too.
Paul: It doesn´t bend that´s true by the way. This thing´s rock solid. You could actually drive a nail with this thing.
Leo: Made out of steel right?
Leo: I have the Apple Phone, I have several generations, I wonder if I have them all somewhere, I might. Speaking of Apple, Gabe Aul is coming.
Leo: A little later on in the show, Gabe Aul, the guy who knows all literally and tweets much on the Twitter, is going to join us. The guy we´ve been kind of flogging for the last month or so.
Paul: Yeah, he´s come for our one and up or whatever.
Leo: He said stop flogging me. So that´s coming up in a little bit, before we do that though, you also, see I thought Paul that you had a new Windows phone or something like that, that´s what we all thought.
Mary Jo Foley: I thought he did too, I was like, what do have tell me.
Paul I do have a new, I have 2 new Windows phones. I have new laptops that I also can´t show you.
Leo: See, see. He does have stuff, but I do want to ask about the Surface 3. Did you both get a Surface 3?
Mary Jo: Yes we did.
Leo: What do you think?
Paul: I think Mary Jo´s impression is the most important.
Mary Jo: Everyone wants to know does it run Notepad? Well yes. Rest assured.
Paul: By the way just to give you an idea of the differences in some of our readers anyway, everyone wants to know from me whether it runs visual studio, whether it runs full blown Photoshop or the Adobe creative cloud, it´s like complete, in both of these questions, in both of these kinds of questions are on the exact wrong ends of where this device is right?
Leo: Somewhere in the middle right? It´s a little better than a Notepad runner.
Paul: It´s a little bit better, even RT was good for that.
Mary Jo: You know what, it´s snappier than I thought it was going to be, in very limited testing so far, because you know it has an Atom processor so we were kind of like, you know, how good is it going to be in terms of surfing and opening apps and all and it´s much better than I thought.
Leo: Is it a Core M?
Paul: No, it´s an Atom X7 which is the cherry trail brand new, never appeared in the device before.
Leo: Cherry trail.
Mary Jo: Yes.
Leo: So it´s snappy, it´s probably too early to know about battery life yeah?
Paul: Yeah not yet but.
Mary Jo: You know what I can say is with my Surface RT whenever I would put it in connected standby, hibernate and I´d come back a day or 2 later the battery would be dead, even if I hadn´t touched it. And so far on this, I´ve charged it once and it still has quite a bit of battery left and I´ve used it inn and off. At least this seems to be working better, the connected standby, part of this.
Leo: DoctorMom says with Cherry Trail it should be great for Candy crush saga.
Paul: Well I can tell you what it´s not going to be great for is 3d gaming like for actual video games, it´s not going to be good for that. I did the 3d mark, you know the modern version, the graphics tests, and it doesn´t actually do much better than the Surface 2. But when you do a more kind of mainstream like PCMark 8, like the whole conventional score was 1432 versus, where is it, um, sorry, 1947, for my Surface Pro 3. So that´s actually not horrible, and it sort of falls within the range of the performance that Microsoft was talking about, I think they said something like 73 percent of the performance kind of thing of the free version of the Surface Pro 3, so I think for desktop tasks, web browsing, photo editing, you know that kind of stuff, I mean I think it´s going to be pretty good across the board for normal use, in other words, these people are not going to be heavy taskers, they´re not going to have iTunes, Chrome, PhotoShop, Visual Studio, all running at the same time, but a normal mix of desktop apps I think it looks like it´s going to be pretty good.
Leo: Paul do you have an end cap in your office for your books? What is it behind you over your left shoulder?
Paul: Oh over there?
Leo: It looks like one of those displays in a bookstore.
Paul: No, those are posters.
Leo: Oh it´s a poster.
Paul: I used to have a, it´s funny you just said that because I just posted a picture on Facebook of my son from years ago and in my office at the time I had a huge bookshelf over here that had all of my books in it, you know, in my office because I need to refer to my own books from time to time.
Leo: And by the way Happy Birthday Mark is 17.
Mary Jo: I know.
Leo: Unbelievable, and I loved the montage you put up of him as a little kid and wow.
Paul: Just kind of made up randomly.
Leo: Man, I´ve been there Paul. Turn around and they´re 4, turn around and they´re 29.
Paul: We took him out for dinner last night and I went and found the waitress and I was like listen we got to do some kind of birthday thing for my son and she was what kind of cake does he like? and I said I don´t care about the cake you just need to embarrass him as much as possible.
Leo: Do you have a hat? Can you sing strange songs?
Paul: As many employees as you can bring. Yeah it was awesome.
Leo: Did they turn bright red?
Paul: Yeah, it was great.
Leo: That´s nice.
Paul: I can´t wait till he goes to a prom, I´m going to start whipping out his little kid pictures.
Leo: Henry always said, keep humiliating me, Dad, just remember I´m choosing your nursing home.
Paul: That´s a good point actually.
Leo: Just saying, Henry knew, even at that age who was in charge. Um, so you´re not really saying anything about battery life and that´s what people really want to know.
Paul: We just got it, we need to use it.
Leo: When did you get it, yesterday?
Mary Jo: Monday yeah.
Leo: Well it´s been 3 days.
Paul: Well the first day that I got it I never, I mean I plugged it in to see how it worked and I let it go and I used it, I had it on all night, and I specifically, even the times I wasn´t really using it, if I was watching TV or something, I would kind of tap it occasionally and keep the screen on and just kind of see how it went. I don´t remember exactly but it was like 46% of battery life was still left at the end of the day which I thought was fantastic, I mean it arrived at 8:55 am you know and I didn´t sit here and on it all day long, I wrote on my normal computer and all that but I consider that a good sign you know for real world battery life.
Leo: Did you get the type cover and everything with it? Did they send all the yeah?
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: What did you think?
Mary Jo: We got the type cover, we got the pen.
Leo: Oh, they sent a pen too.
Mary Jo: We got docking station.
Leo: Oh wow, alright.
Paul: And I think, this is, you know, this is really where it differentiates from the iPad right? The iPad obviously has an amazing ecosystem of games and apps and all that stuff but what the Microsoft tablet has Surface 3 is the ability to get a pen with real pressure sensitivity, draw, write, paint or whatever, it has a keyboard that´s integral to the design, you can choose your own color, it´s a Windows PC and you can run desktop applications, it´s kind of amazing. You can even plug it into a dock and use it with an external display, mouse, keyboard, etc and use it like a desktop computer. I´m not going to do that, neither one of us would ever use that as our PC like that and record Podcasts and things like this that would make sense it´s a low end processor, but for people with normal needs it is kind of amazing that range of functionality that´s possible if you want to do it with that device, I think it´s kind of a nice niche for it I think.
Mary Jo: Yeah the niche is supposedly college students, that´s a really big play they´re making with the device. Mobile professionals who need to have processing power but maybe don´t need like the full power of a true desktop all the time. So yeah, they´re targeting it very specifically to those groups, I think they want to get it out now for back to school because they are actually are in time for back to school.
Paul: Never get it back to school.
Mary Jo: And graduation gifts and father´s day, mother´s day, all those things, so they´re going to be on the market on time for that which is, you know it sounds kind of trivial but it´s actually a big deal.
Paul: No, it´s important. My big question about this thing with that, with regards to that market is, you know you look out at a college career or whatever, 4 years hopefully, will this device be good enough to last for college? And I don´t know, I´m honestly not sure, I mean on the other hand it´s only about $800 dollars or less, all fully loaded with all the stuff we just described, whereas you might spend more than a thousand on a Macbook air or some full blown Windows laptop that would take you the entire 4 years maybe it doesn´t matter but, I do wonder about that you know when you go toward the lower end processor, not expandable ram that kind of thing, what´s the long term play here? Does it last and I´m not really sure there.
Leo: You know it´s given that they don´t do RT and frankly the price point on the Surface Pro 3 is high, they needed something in that price range.
Paul: It´s a premium device yeah. Actually by the way, that´s the other cool thing about this, you get a lot of premium build quality out of this device, you know the body is the same material, it´s nice, it´s high quality, you know the type card is nice, high quality, it´s got the same ports basically, it has video out and expandability micro sd, etc., kickstand is 3 positions but it´s you know 3 positions is probably actually what people need, it´s fine.
Mary Jo: The charger is so much better though. A new charger that comes with this.
Leo: It´s USB now right? USB micro USB instead of the pogo plug thing. Why is it better?
Mary Jo: The one that they ship with the unit, is just, is so much more sturdy, you know when it´s connected, it´s smaller, less bulky. You know with the older ones it sometimes would not really connect and you thought you were charging and you were´t.
Paul: That was the worst. You could literally, it would attach to the outside of the device with the magnet but it wasn´t making the power connection, so you´d go to bed thinking you´re all set for the next flight you were on or whatever. It was really, really lousy.
Mary Jo: But this one when it´s connected, I mean I feel like if I tripped over the cord I´d probably fall down and like the device would come crashing, it´s like really secure.
Paul: Yeah it is surprisingly solid, that´s true. The other thing by the way is that it works with every cable you already own unless you´re an Apple guy. Everyone has hundreds of these cables, you know Kindles come with them, all Android devices come with them.
Leo: I have to say and we talked about this last week, I do think the type C connector is better because it´s reversible and it doesn´t feel like it´s going to, I always feel like on my devices that after a hundred plug ins I´m going to, you know, some of them wrong, I´m going to ruin the connector on the device. Nevertheless I really like that idea, because you can go to a friend’s house and they´ll have a micro USB cable you know, it´s, a hotel, anywhere.
Paul: If I were to go on a business trip, or show up at build, oh I forgot my charger, guess what I´m surrounded by people who have these chargers, it is kind of neat like that.
Leo: I think type C is probably going to be universal in 3 years and that´s going to be one, that´s going to, that can go up to 100 watts so that can power anything and that´s going to be really awesome! Awesome sausome.
Paul: Yep, I agree.
Leo: Next one, we´ll have that.
Paul: And by the way, not just on thin, light devices, I mean I want the next big 15 inch laptop to have that, I want this to be the connector.
Leo: And I´m sure there´s resistance from OEMs because they make money on these proprietary connectors but it´s such a nightmare, anybody who´s carried Windows laptops remember like that time, probably has that, remember you would buy like from Belkin or somebody the power to go thing and would have 800 little dockles you put on the.
Paul: One for each, yeah.
Leo: For each type of device, I have a bunch of those.
Paul: By the way, even within the Apple world, I mean, if you go back, just go back to the time when Macbook debut, there have 3 or 4 different connectors types probably, I´m not really sure but, these are, a standard on this is such a great idea.
Leo: And micro USB doesn´t, you cannot do too much I think 10 or 11 watts is the max on that.
Paul: I think they said this one´s 13
Leo: That´s a, boy you´re pushing the edge there.
Paul: Could be wrong.
Leo: No, it could be. Well you know actually I may be wrong because when I look at the fast chargers that some Android phones use, those go like 20 watts or more.
Paul: Oh, that´s interesting.
Leo: Those are, I can´t remember what it was but it was a lot, it was like 9 volts by 2 amps or something.
Paul: You could start a car with it, you know, kind of tap the two ends together and sparks.
Leo: So good, so this sounds like it´s going to be a product to look at, there are no Windows 8 keys on the type keyboard?
Paul: Sorry what? There are no what?
Mary Jo: Windows 8 keys. You know the specific ones.
Paul: Oh I´m sorry.
Leo: You forgot Windows 8 really quickly Paul!
Paul: You say Windows 8 key and I think product key and I´m like what are you talking about? So the Surface pro 3 version of the type cover has Windows 8 specific keys on the top row, for the charms right? This one does not and it´s kind of interesting because they bring back a couple of keys that are kind of standard in the Windows world print screen and insert, and then they bring back 2 keys or they add 2 keys related to brightness, screen brightness. So that top row of keys is still very useful but now it´s not kind of the goofy, silly stuff we had before. Speaking of which, by the way, pet peeve of mine on most laptops the top row of keys is often switched between the old fashioned function key f1,f2, etc, and these new media keys, Windows keys etc, like that kind of thing. But if you want to do something like alt f4 on most keyboards, like on a mobile device, you do the keyboard combination and what you´ll see is whatever the special key is, it won´t actually close the window, it will do whatever the special key is. So on a Surface 3 for example f4 is screen brightness so instead of closing the window you´ll raise the brightness of the screen, which is dumb and what I don´t understand is why laptop makers don´t, when you hit the alt, make those keys work as function keys because that´s what you´re doing. And Surface is only one of many that doesn´t get that right, I kind of wish that everyone would do that.
Leo: Anything else to say, I mean Gabe Aul is going to join us in a moment so.
Mary Jo: Yeah, Gabe´s standing by.
Leo: I don´t want to keep him waiting, let´s wrap up, is there anything else?
Paul: Okay, I think, well we got to talk about, let´s just come back, I want to talk about these last couple of things with a little length, they´re worth that covering so.
Leo: Alright, as Mary Jo turns pink and Paul turns blue, we will welcome, I don´t know how I´m going to get Gabe into the mix here, I think, oh look, it´s magic!
Paul: It´s just like snapping Windows in Windows.
Gabe Aul: I feel like I should like put my arms around both of you.
Leo: We just spread Paul and Mary Jo apart and there in the middle is Gabe Aul. Gabe it´s a thrill to talk to you, I know, I´m sure Paul and Mary Jo have met you many times but it´s the first to me and we´ve been using your twitter feed as the canonical source of information out of Microsoft so thank you.
Gabe: Well thanks for having me.
Paul: Gabe can you answer the burning question of the day?
Gabe: The burning question of the day? Does he look like princess Leia?
Leo: No, I don´t care what shoes he´s wearing. Well are you wearing red shoes right now?
Gabe: Am I wearing red shoes? No, no, gray shoes.
Leo: Gabe I´m seeing on the lower third is the, in charge of the Windows 10 insiders program which is awesome. That´s the program that we are getting our Windows 10 technical preview on our phones and our computers from so. That´s remarkable that program.
Gabe: We were really excited about it, it´s been fantastic for us, it´s just been a huge pleasure for us to be able to engage with all the customers who were really excited about using Windows 10 and getting the feedback back that helps us shape the product, it´s really been tremendous.
Leo: Do you know how many people are actually using the technical preview right now?
Gabe : There´s over 3 million Windows insiders that are registered, we have easily 500,000 systems that we see on a daily basis, like there are people that are really using these as they´re day to day machines. I tweeted a month or so ago about the usage of Windows 10 by Windows insiders and that trend continues we see people that are actually using it more heavily than even people using Windows 7, Windows 8, so this is really a super engaged community and the help that they´ve provided in terms of sending us problem reports and suggestions, sending us crash reports when something goes wrong on the system, it´s really helping us make a just a much better product and we just couldn´t be more pleased with how the program is going.
Leo: It´s a phenomenal number I have to say. It´s amazing.
Paul: It´s time to start grilling this guy.
Leo: I have a couple of more questions, you have telemetry in the technical preview so people even if they´re not feeding you feedback reports you´re getting information about how people use it and so forth.
Gabe: Yeah we get data on problems that are encountered, we have a whole set of quality telemetry that spans you know the big, obvious things like crashes and hangs, blue screens. But it also includes things like compatibility errors, it includes responsiveness problems, we have telemetry that attracts launches, experiences in the shell to see how long things are taking, and then we can pivot that across device classes and understand you know how something works on a high end system or on an entry level system and then on our side we can tune for that, we can change memory management, prefetching logic to optimize for the most common cases, we actually optimized the product using basic block optimization for just how, like parts of binary get loaded, what load order happens. So all that, that responsiveness for example helps us do that and being able to get that from people who are really using it as they´re day to day product will just again help us deliver a better final result.
Leo: But I have to say to the guy in the chatroom can I give you feedback without actually installing it? That´s probably less valuable.
Gabe: We do actually, we have a user voice, you know the ability to give us suggestions, things that you´d like to see in the product in the future. You know the most actual things for us though are things that are people really using every day and I was listening Paul talk about things like the function key and things like that. Those things where there´s friction in your day to day experience, things that you want us to do that will help the day to day usage of the product and really optimize your experience and that comes from really using the product. One of the things my team is focused entirely on performance and one of the things I always talk with that team is which a billion and a half customers, if we can save 1 second of time on an operation the amount of time, you know put back in the world, productivity put back into the world is profound, it´s like 32 years of productivity on that single second of improvement and so, we look for every single opportunity that we can get to shave time, to optimize in that way, and you know, we´ll sit in conference rooms and we´ll argue about a hundred and fifty milliseconds on some operation, how can we get that hundred and fifty millisecond back. So you know, there are some people that are hyper focused on this stuff here and it´s great to work with them.
Leo: It´s more than a tenth of a second you know, that counts man!
Gabe: It does, add it up across the number of systems, number of operations you do per day, those little things they matter.
Leo: Okay now I´ll let you guys talk.
Mary Jo: Let´s just get the elephant in the room out of the way.
Gabe: Are you calling me fat?
Mary Jo: Everybody wants to know.
Leo: I´m the elephant, I´m leaving now goodbye.
Mary Jo: I´m going to ask you about Hadoop, but when, where is the next Windows 10 mobile preview? Soon? I mean today, any hints for us about this thing?
Gabe: Sure, how about this as a hint, yes, I´ll give you a straight answer, I will actually do something that I said I wouldn´t do which is give you a date for when the next build is happening, and I´ll tell you a story about why we´re doing it this way. We will have a new build, it will be available 10:00 am on Friday. And the reason I can give you that concrete prediction is that because this new build is actually has significant number of new phones that were unlocking for the first time, we actually have to do a ton of staging work to get the build staged and ready, the set of phones that we are making this work on for this build it actually translates to about 5100 images that have to be staged for every mobile operator, for language and so that takes time, even at a minute per build for staging we have start that long in advance. So we actually, we pushed the button basically yesterday and it will be, oh actually it was late last night, and the staging began and so Friday at 10 am staging will be complete and all those phones that were listed will be available, with one exception, the Icon is not going to make it for the build for the same reason.
Mary Jo: What!
Gabe: I´m sorry.
Leo: Oh Mary Jo!
Paul: Mary Jo just walks away.
Mary Jo: What about the 930?
Gabe: The 930 also, the core issue there is that.
Gabe: No, the issue is that the 930 and the Icon they actually require us to add a new scale factor for those screen sizes and we looked at a couple of different ways we could sort of work around it but it wound up in the cases where the UI would be just too small to use on that phone so we do have work booked to add the new scale factor to those devices but for this next build they won´t be supported, the rest of the phones on the list will be.
Paul: I was going to say Windows 10 mobile for phones in particular but I guess also for tablets, hasn´t been updated yet and so I guess there´s a, you know there´s less known about it we´re not really clear on where it is, I mean do you anticipate this thing happening at the same time as Windows 10 for desktops or is it, I don´t mean to put it this way exactly but is it behind Windows 10 for PCs or are they in different places in the development cycle?
Gabe: Well both of them are still pretty much in the meat of the development cycle, we feel very good about how the builds are progressing and about how the product is coming together. You´ll see a bunch of new stuff with this build, there´s a ton of new things in there, and so that will be very evident right away from using it. We´ll have a blog that we´ll post that has you know sort of a rundown of the new features, things that we´ve changed based on feedback as well as known issues, so just like we´ve done with other builds. But the product we feel is coming together really well, we´re using it every day, I´ve got , on my desk here, I´ve got a handful of devices that I got, that I´ve been testing with and been using as my go to phones every single day. So we´re very confident with our ability to bring the product together and converge and you know, and deliver the product this year.
Mary Jo: What about, with Windows 10 Mobile we know it´s not just going to run on phones, it´s also going to run on small tablets that are arm and intel based,we have heard, when are people going to start getting to try that?
Gabe: Actually I think that´s going to come down to the availability of the devices, the devices that will support our under 7 inch devices and right now we don´t have any devices that we´ve got lit up for people to try quite yet. As new hardware comes online and we have some target devices that we can support then we´ll announce information about that for insiders to try.
Paul: So is it fair to say that´s new hardware only then essentially, in other words there are 7 inch Windows tablets out in the world but they´re going to get the PC version or the desktop version.
Gabe: Yeah well everything, any device that we support we have to specifically target, we don´t have devices right now that we have specifically targeted for preview builds so, that´s basically the best information I can give you at this point.
Mary Jo: I´m curious what, right now you guys consider to be the biggest unresolved bug or issue that´s still in the Windows 10 desktop preview? Like is there one thing that you think like uh, this is the one big thing that we´re really trying to get through or something that you would say is like the toughest issue, I don´t know if you can even qualify something like that.
Gabe: Yeah, there´s really nothing that I can qualify as the toughest or the biggest. A product this large and complex it´s really about bringing all of the elements together and mostly that´s an exercise in refinement and chasing down specific issues. You know I know based on my twitter feed that many people would say this is the top issue because it´s the one that´s affecting them the most deeply and that´s valid, we see that as well, we think that the individual issues that are impacting people in a severe way, those are the most important issues for us and it just happens that there´s not one, there´s many and we, our job every day is to chase them down and solve this problems.
Paul: So in keeping with the tag team nature of what´s happening here we´ll ask you a question. Sorry, I have to ask you this because it comes up every day for me on Twitter and I assume maybe it does for you as well and it´s about Media Center and if you happen, if you know what the plan is for Windows 10 and Media Center will it be included? Will be something you can install later?
Gabe: I don´t have any information about that to share today sorry.
Paul: That´s okay, I have to ask, sorry.
Mary Jo: And I have to ask you something that I heard about this week thanks to Brad Sams over at Neowin, code mane Redstone? Like what is this thing? Come on! Is this Windows 11? What is this?
Paul: We´re kind of over Windows 10 game?
Gabe: Yeah, you´re done?
Paul: It´s kind of boring.
Gabe: That would save me so much work, I could actually get a vacation that would be awesome. Um, we´re not quite done, we still think we have some work to do and so we´re focused on that. We don´t have any information to share about what´s after that at this point.
Paul: So what´s after that?
Mary Jo: We have to ask.
Gabe: I know.
Paul: I guess the other one, just because it was mentioned in January at the Windows 10 event that you had but it´s not really clear, could you say anything about what Windows RT users can expect? You said something you guys were working on as part of Windows 10 or what is that going to look like?
Gabe: We have announced that there will be an update for Windows RT, we haven´t announced the details about what that looks like quite yet, we´ll share more information about that as we have more details to share.
Mary Jo: I have a lot of people asking me about the UI of the operating system and I know in the old days the way Microsoft would do it is the UI is kind of the last thing to come together but should we expect a lot more changes from the UI inside of the house before this thing is ready in the summer?
Gabe: Well when we talk about the UI that´s a very large canvas that we talk about. It´s everything from how interactions work and how key operations work, things like the virtual desktop, a whole new way of working with Windows. And so that´s part of UI but also like iconography, color schemes and you know the particular fonts that are used, that´s also part of UI. And so I can´t say hey the UI is done or not done at any given point in time because we are, we do throughout the release work on every aspect of it. It is true that the big pieces, the big interaction pieces are things that we will want to have done early, and sort of have, we´ve shared a ton of this stuff with people early on and gotten a ton of feedback on it and made refinements that we do also expect that that sort of file polished the small interactions, the icons, the color, things like that. Those will keep evolving as we go because there are things that can change without changing the sort of substantial nature of the operating system. So I would say that you´ll continue to see new stuff from us throughout the insider program all the way up until RTM and there will be some new features as well as changes in the look and feel of the system.
Paul: I think we missed one that I had intended to ask about I don´t know if you call it tablet motor continue or whatever but we think about sort of the edge swipes on the tablet or a touch screen device and how they changed from Windows 8 to Windows 10, one of the things that surprised me was the feedback I was getting when I would write about Windows 10 and you know Microsoft got everything right and this is great, they were like well obviously you´re not using it on a tablet, you know there´s this group of people that really likes how Windows 8 worked, you know when you would swipe from the side you get, it´s charms or whatever and now obviously that stuff is different. I mean I will admit having used it there´s some functions like getting devices to do screen sharing or getting the settings that stuff was very easy with the charm type system. Is there more coming with regards to how that stuff works in Windows 10 or how do you address that kind of complaint or feedback I guess.
Gabe: Yeah well this is an interesting thing because this is something that´s kind of new and part of doing this out in the open like we are, we´re sharing things in a very incomplete state, the first build that had continuum in it, it was very, very early so there was a ton a stuff that we knew we were going to go do and changes that we´re going to make that hadn´t quite made hit in yet. So the feedback we heard, it was incredibly validating in some ways around the direction that we´re going, it was valuable for us in the sense that we got a sense from people how important the tablet mode transitions are for them and how windowing in a convertible situation or 2 and 1 situation should change and we´ve made some tweaks based on that and we´ve got other stuff that will continue to come but the thing that I think we will all have to learn together as we go through these things, you know the timing, we don´t want to be in world where we don´t show it until we think we´re all done and everybody will be happy with it because then we lose the opportunity to get some of that early feedback that we could actually use to help shape the final product. And the thing that we just ask in return is that you take what you´re seeing as an early release and in spite of that give the feedback about the broad strokes and the things that don´t quite work and that we want to see changed and then we will take that feedback to heart and use that in the development of the final result. You certainly haven´t seen the final result yet, we are very committed to making sure that Windows 10 is great on all kinds of devices from the small, from phones to 7 inch you know tablets all the up to the great big screens like the one I have behind me here which is running Windows 10 as well.
Leo: Is that a perceptive pixel?
Gabe: That´s the first generation preceptive pixel yeah and it´s my, I´ve got my physical white board and my virtual white board.
Leo: Do you use it as a white board? That´s cool.
Gabe: Yeah, yeah, I know, it´s fantastic. I love that I can write on it in one note and then I´ll draw a diagram or something in one note and then I´ll sit down at my PC and it´ll be there and I´ll copy and paste it into a mail and say hey this is what I was thing about. Yeah, it´s really, it´s a very transformative technology we´re really excited about the next generation in the Surface hub and what that´s going to allow business to do and it´s a very. very exciting product, I am one big fan.
Mary Jo: I have an Xbox question.
Leo: No, you don´t. You lie.
Paul: Oh come on! All these years and now you ask him an Xbox question?
Mary Jo: I´ve been saving it up for today. One Xbox question.
Leo: I love it, go ahead.
Gabe: I´ll do my best.
Mary Jo: Well we know that with the one Windows idea that Microsoft is making it so that the common core runs across all these different platforms, Xbox, Surface hub, everything. But how do you put, or what´s the thinking about how to get Windows 10 into Xbox? Like is it something you know RTM Windows 10 and then kind of hand that to the Xbox team or have things changed how you guys do this now?
Gabe: No, no, the Xbox team works with us on the core platform they check the changes into the core platform just as any other feature team that´s working in OSG, so we have, the way that we structure the code, the one core code, it is common across the platforms and all these different teams are making sure it works for them. In terms of how this translates to an actual product release and how it gets delivered, I´ll leave it to the Xbox team to talk about, but from an engineering perspective we work very, very close together, they´re part of the same, same operating system family.
Leo: That´s really exciting actually, as an Xbox One owner.
Paul: Are you getting the shepard´s crook?
Gabe: I am actually, I´ve got to run to.
Paul: We´re just talking here, what!
Mary Jo: Okay one really last one, one quick fast one.
Gabe: I have to do the final sign off and make sure that everything is set for friday.
Leo: This is exciting man.
Gabe: I do need to go and press the
Leo: One quick one for Mary Jo, quick Mary Jo, quick.
Mary Jo: I just wanted to say, what little hint, what should we look forward to at build? Give us a hint, we love hints and puzzles, numbers.
Gabe: The puzzle totally backfired on me, Paul, I think is my biggest attractor with the puzzle. Sorry no hints to offer about Build, we´re very excited it´s going to be great event. I´m trying to get a ticket to see if I can actually go, but it´s going to be a lot of fun, and there should be a lot of exciting announcements there but again, once again I´ll leave that for the day to share with you.
Leo: Gabe Aul, Windows 10 insiders program chief, thank you so much for spending some time with us and come back anytime.
Gabe: Okay, thanks for having me.
Leo: I think it´s really great for the audience to hear from you directly, and of course follow Gabe on Twitter @GabeAul
Paul: Better call Aul.
Leo: Better call Aul, thanks Gabe, see you.
Gabe: Bye, bye.
Leo: Oh man is that awesome! Nice awesome sauce there.
Paul: Yeah, he´s a great guy. You know something, often times on twitter of course I´m complaining or criticizing Windows or Microsoft whatever you know, I think the one that people don´t get is like I´m not criticizing Gabe or Joe B or some other guy, Gabe is, I don´t know how he does what he does because I deal with whatever it is I deal with twitter every day and I come crying to Mary Jo every day and I don´t know, I can only imagine for him it must be a million times worse you know.
Paul: Well seriously sometimes I felt like giving Mary Jo my twitter credentials and saying listen you need to turn this off when I get stupid.
Mary Jo : I do tell you stuff usually once a day or more.
Paul: Just get me off Twitter, yeah, once a day. I don´t know how he does it.
Leo: Let´s take a little break and then we can continue on, if you want to continue with your Surface 3 review and there´s lots more to talk about of course.
Paul: Yeah a couple more things on Surface.
Leo: Windows Weekly. Paul Thurrott, Mary Jo Foley and now you know why this is the number one show in the world about Windows.
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Leo: Paul Thurrott, Mary Jo Foley, Windows weekly on the air. If you just tuned in, rewind.
Leo: Great interview, great subject matter.
Paul: The rest of the show is going to stink.
Leo: No, not all, and to be honest I mean Gabe is, as a company spokesman not going to really, but yeah I think, did we know that Friday was the next version of the technical preview?
Mary Jo: We did not know.
Leo: So you got a little scoop there.
Mary Jo: Yep.
Leo: I hope we can get him back, we weren´t too mean right?
Mary Jo: No, we were nice.
Leo: We were nice.
Mary Jo: We didn´t make him show us his shoes or anything so I think it was okay.
Paul: I could´ve sworn he had red shoes.
Mary Jo: I think you´re remembering red dog, remember when the whole team wore red shoes? I bet you´re remembering that.
Paul: I´m thinking more recently than that but I don´t know.
Leo: Wait a minute, if Paul´s going to do that I have to do it.
Paul: I just see red.
Leo: Mary Jo where´s yours?
Mary Jo: I know, why don´t I have one?
Leo: Paul you didn´t send.
Mary Jo: No.
Paul: You should get a, maybe you´ll get a beer stein when we go to.
Mary Jo: That would be better, more appropriate.
Leo: I want to see Mary Jo slugging the brew during this show.
Mary Jo: In a big Thurrott stein.
Leo: Yeah he told me this was hesesional.
Paul: Are you a lefty?
Leo: I´m a lefty.
Paul: Mary Jo:
Mary Jo: I am not a lefty.
Leo: But that´s perfect, I got 2 righties and 1 lefty. That way it´ll go, anyway. That only is meaningful to somebody watching video, the rest of you are going, actually, actually I got some good news, and it´ll be good on this show. we´ve been investigating the idea of releasing the audio podcast in stereo.
Mary Jo: Oh yeah right.
Paul: What is it in now?
Leo: It´s something called Mono.
Paul: Oh, I see.
Leo: Well for, I mean look, we´re 10 years old now, we´ve been doing this show for 8 years.
Paul: Why don´t you jump, like go right through to, what´s the next step up from that? Like some kind of surround.
Leo: Dolby surround at most where Paul can do it from above us.
Paul: It´s not going to be anything like I can fly, I can fly around it in a circle, like it´s going around your head.
Leo: We actually have done, there´s a dolby headphone many years ago we did a show exactly like that where there was this, the sound stage was like a sphere around you but we won´t do that.
Paul: I find that disconcerting because you´re walking down the street and you´d be, you know, kind of dodging because you think like voices would come in you know what I mean.
Leo: I just think for a show like this to have me maybe in the middle and Mary Jo on the left and you on the right, slightly not extreme. We tried this once, not extreme but just a little bit. And if you´re in the car listening I just think it gives it a richness and so we´re investigating it. And the reason we did it first in mono is to keep the file size, we´ll still make it small, we´re not going to, stereo will not increase the file size too much. But I feel that people have more bandwidth.
Paul: Honestly file sizes on these things I don´t think would matter.
Leo: Well that´s kind of my point, for audio it doesn´t, and video has always been in stereo because it´s video and you´re already downloading at 800 k file or whatever it is.
Paul: I don´t really listen to our podcasts, I don´t really find it very entertaining or useful but.
Leo: Well there you go, put that in the promo!
Mary Jo: There´s an endorsement!
Leo: Windows Weekly, I don´t find it very entertaining or useful!
Paul: Who said that? One of the co-hosts. It sounds like quite a show! No, I mean, why would I listen to the show?
Leo: No, no because you were there, you don´t have to listen, you were there. So I think we´re going to do, I think we´ll do that soon I´ll let you know, for all of our shows, we´re just thinking times have changed.
Paul: I think you got to do that.
Leo: Well you don´t have to but I do feel like it´s now okay.
Paul: There are going to be people who love it and people who don´t.
Leo: There are people I know in bandwidth constrained environments, much like this blazer, I´m in a blazer constrained environment.
Paul: Yeah I have a few of those myself.
Leo: All the buttons are gone because they all popped off.
Paul: Last time I wore it, it was like a wake in 1985 and I´m confused why it doesn´t fit.
Leo: I´m sorry, let´s move on, actually let´s not move on, did you want to say some more about the
Paul: I just want to touch on a couple of these things, um, maybe Mary Jo should tell the loop story because I was emotionally overly involved in bizarre drama.
Mary Jo: You were, you got a little over the top on this one.
Leo: Paul? Really? Upset?
Mary Jo: You know I think it´s only with the Surface pro 3, there´s this pen loop that they attach to the device so if you have the Surface pen you can save it in the loop and you´ll be less likely to lose it.
Paul: Let me show you.
Mary Jo: Yes show us the pen loop.
Paul: It attaches to the keyboard normally, it comes with the keyboard.
Leo: Actually it looks pretty good. It´s nice. Okay you know what, when you said loop I don´t know why I thought it was a little nuce hanging off of the thing, but that actually looks pretty good. That looks pretty good, that would work for me.
Paul: It´s fine, it does the job.
Mary Jo: Well on the Surface 3s we got there´s no pen loop.
Leo: Oh my god!
Mary Jo: And so some people, we won´t name names, Rafael Rivera on Twitter started freaking out about the lack of a pen loop. So Paul had to do some investigative research to find out why there was no pen loop and what the solution would be. And he discovered that the pen loop will be included with the pen, so if you pay the $50 dollars to buy the pen you´ll get a pen loop but it won´t be with the keyboard.
Paul: By the way, sorry to interrupt, I just want to say real quick, stories over right?
Mary Jo: No, the stories not over.
Paul: That´s the answer, we´re done here, we´re clearly done here. This has been explained, there´s nothing more to say about the topic is that correct?
Mary Jo: Yes.
Paul: No, the answer is no, there´s a lot more to say.
Mary Jo: Except, this went on for hours, this went on like all day on twitter on Monday because people kept chiming in what color pen loop would be included with the pen? Will the pen loop color coordinate with the pen cover? I mean will the pen color coordinate with the keyboard? Or will you just get a random pen loop? And how do you assure you´re even going to get a pen loop? You´re not really sure, maybe you´re going to get one.
Paul: By the way the Microsoft Store online says nothing about a pen loop being in the box Mr. Thurrott I think you´re making up this fact. What about existing pens that are already in the store? They are already selling the gray one that goes with Surface pro 3, are they magically going to add a pen loop to that box? How does that work? So I had to go back to Microsoft.
Mary Jo: Multiple times.
Paul: And say look I, I know this is going to sound really dumb.
Leo: Petty? Small?
Paul: But, you know, then I started getting emails from guys from Microsoft all day yesterday like hay Paul, I hear you´re the guy to go to with Surface pen loop problems, I have a question. You know, just like, it was unbelievable.
Mary Jo: Yeah, it just got a little out of hand so if you´re one of those people who cares about the pen loop, we have got you covered and Paul has also volunteered to write a field guide about the pen loop.
Leo: Microsoft Surface pen loop, the field guide.
Paul: Chapter 3: How to attach it properly. Leo I´m not kidding I spent all day on this yesterday. This was my entire day.
Leo: I´m laughing because it´s funny but I also want to defend you because this is consumer stuff, this is what people want to know.
Mary Jo: It´s a $4 dollar pen loop, it costs $4 dollars!
Paul: Oh by the way, here´s the thing, here´s the joke, you can buy this in any color you want for less than $5 dollars.
Leo: How does it attach though?
Paul: Seriously if you really care, if you really want to make sure you don´t miss out on this, buy one now, just buy one now.
Leo: So Microsoft sells it, how does it attach? Does it have stick´em on it? What kind of stick´em?
Mary Jo: You´re one of these people aren´t you?
Paul: Is the new pen loop going to have a different adhesive? How do I know it´s going to stick as well? Will the new pen loop work with the Surface Pro 3?
Leo: What if I want to remove it? Will it leave a residual adhesive behind? But on the other hand, I want it better than a post it note, I don´t want it falling off at the worst time possible. I stick my surface in a briefcase, will the pen loop survive?
Paul: Actually you were previous to this conversation so, you understand like how increasingly insane this makes me.
Leo: Alex has invented the new pen loop. You just clip it right on the thing.
Mary Jo: The clip thing is a good suggestion.
Paul: Actually the Surface pen comes with a clip.
Mary Jo: It does.
Leo: Look at that.
Paul: Leo actually if you would move that clip and put it on your jacket pocket, your shirt pocket, you´ll notice it also works there.
Leo: It´s a dual purpose clip.
Leo: It´s amazing. What will they think of next? Thank you Alex. You see, engineering mind. Can I just say, I´m tapping my forehead but there´s a small difference between the forehead tap and the woohoo.
Paul: Right, right. One is the one you direct at yourself and the other is the one you direct at other people.
Mary Jo: I spent my whole day on IM yesterday going to Paul step away from the keyboard, go take a walk.
Leo: This is what you´re talking about, is it?
Paul: I seriously, at least 5 different times, thought I had answered every possible question there was about the loop, and then someone would raise another question.
Leo: People care, obviously people care. I think that´s a reasonable thing because honestly the real issue for me with the stylus is losing it.
Leo: And I want it to be, I liked on the original tablets, I guess the Surface never had it.
Paul: Yeah they would go inside, you would pop them in. By the way, there are actually problems with those designs on more than, because I´ve had every tablet PC ever made basically, on more than one device you could jam the thing in the wrong way and then not be able to get it out, that kind of thing. And I get it, I get why that´s useful, I would just say Surface devices are too thin to support that, you can´t put it inside.
Leo: Yeah it has to be thicker, it has to be the thickness of the pen plus you know whatever. So that makes perfect sense. I think, now actually that I saw, I´ve never seen the loop, now that I see the loop.
Paul: I´m still having recovery from this, I´ve got nothing done today. Honestly it´s mostly Surface pen loop related.
Leo: Well but when you see how much it costs.
Mary Jo: yeah it´s $50 bucks for the pen, you don´t want to be losing it.
Leo: By the way, actually scroll down a little bit, there are only 2 colors there.
Mary Jo: Uh oh.
Paul: When I looked at this yesterday.
Leo: Oh God why did I show this to Paul?
Paul: When I looked, wait, is this a different one? Because when I looked, no, this is a different one Leo that´s why.
Leo: Should I ask this lady?
Paul: No please, no, dear God!
Leo: She wants to chat with me, she looks nice.
Paul: I was going to say this is not her Leo, get out of the chat. It´s probably a man, but of course it is literally a man.
Mary Jo: I think it´s Rafael, I do.
Paul: That´s the 3rd party loop, I didn´t even know those existed, that´s hilarious. Now I have to update the book. So if you search Microsoft, go to the top there, surface pen loop. That´s hilarious that there´s a 3rd party.
Leo: There´s a 3rd party loop?
Mary Jo: There´s a whole 3rd part ecosystem of loops, no doubt.
Paul: Yes, there is.
Leo: This one looks like, oh I see.
Paul: There you go, i didn´t even know that other one was there.
Leo: There´s 2.
Paul: So click on the first one, that´s the Microsoft one.
Leo: Which? This one? Yeah. Does it come? Oh now look at all the colors.
Paul: There you go.
Leo: Purple, there´s red, there´s bright red.
Paul: Some of them are only available for preorder because they´re the new colors.
Leo: Baby poop brown, there´s all colors, okay. You know what? Let´s get 5 right now. Put one on everything.
Paul: I was going to order 20 of each of each of these and mail then to Rafael as a joke.
Leo: Wait a minute, the red is on back order.
Paul: I should say 20 all together, I guess.
Leo: How come the bright red is on back order? That´s so funny! This must be a color of one of the new.
Paul: Yeah that´s one of the new keyboard colors yeah and I guess pen too right? I think it´s pen color.
Leo: Okay I think we pretty much covered this.
Mary Jo: Exhausted it yes, I think we have.
Leo: Loop topic. But we have not yet talked about everything there is to talk about here. The docking station, there´s more, the docking station? This has to be a new one because it has to have the USB connector right?
Paul: Yes that´s right so if you think about the way the old, well not the old but the current Surface Pro 3 docking station works it connects through, there´s actually a docking station connector on it that is the power port and so it´s a pass through that has a more powerful bus than is what we have available on Surface 3. Surface 3 docking station is all over USB, so it´s a lot like using a USB hub except for video, I should say there´s a mini display port pass through for that. So it´s not as powerful but like the device that it´s using it´s not as powerful. It looks very similar, the wings and the arms that are on the side kind of go up higher on the device, they cover all the ports, you can´t use the ports on the device plus the ports on the docking station which is something you could do with Surface Pro 3. And as a result of the docking station the volume buttons on the Surface 3 are on a different position, they´re on the top of the device because they would be covered by dock.
Leo: And finally, Costco.
Paul: Yeah, I wrote an article about where you could preorder Surface 3 and its peripherals, and as I kind of went through it, it was kind of interesting because not everything is available everywhere, some places have some things, some places have others. And I just kind of mentioned this at the beginning but there´s a Surface, there´s actually 2 Surface 3 bundles at Costco so you have to be a member to get this but for $699 you can get the higher end version of the tablet, the black type cover and a Surface pen which is a great deal. And for $599 you can get the 2 gig, lower end version of the Surface with the black type cover and the Surface pen. So basically that´s an $80 dollar savings over if you buy them individually. Plus if you´re a Costco member they´ll take back anything so no matter what, this thing has some warranty but you could go back to Costco you know, 25 years in the future and they´ll probably take it back. They have a really liberal warranty and return policy.
Leo: So it sounds like the best deal. It´s interesting because Apple totally controls the chain, you just can´t get a deal on any Apple product.
Leo: Microsoft doesn't choose to do that which is-
Paul: Well, I would, it's interesting because, maybe there are other deals on bundles like this. I didn't see any. But most of the other things that are in this article are just the individual pieces, and they're basically the same price everywhere I think.
Mary Jo: Well, except in Europe, right? The Surface-
Paul: Well right, right. I mean in the United States. You know, they're all the same.
Mary Jo: -yeah but, a lot of people have been tweeting to us about how expensive the Surface 3 is in Europe and yes it's partially valued at a tax, obviously, but when you compare the differential between the Surface Pro 3 price and the Surface 3 price in the UK, there's very little difference. So, um, I think they're gonna have to make some tweaks to that somehow, if they really want this to become like the entry level device that's more affordable.
Leo: Exchange rates are, there's VAT-
Mary Jo: I know!
Leo: but there's also Tariffs-
Mary Jo: Exchange Rates.
Leo: and then there's Exchange Rates-
Mary Jo: Yep. I know!
Leo: -and they're really volatile, and it's very difficult.
Mary Jo: Yeah, Yep.
Leo: You know the Euro is going down-
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: -so it shouldn't be expensive in Europe. I don't know what the British Pound is doing.
Paul: Right, I wonder if that's part of it. Just the exchange rate.
Leo: Oh it is, absolutely.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: So if you go and buy a paperback book in Canada, same paperback book in Canada will cost twice as much as it does in the States, and it's only because they're printing it on the back of the book and they don't know what the Exchange rate is going to do so they just kind of....
Mary Jo: Yeah
Paul: We do some shopping in Europe every year, and for many of those years the people who would come here from Europe would bring an extra suitcase because they would go shopping here because everything was so cheap you know, compared because of the Exchange rate.
Leo: They're going to start doing that again I think.
Paul: Well, now it's the reverse though because now, my wife made the comment to me the other day “You know when we go to Europe this summer, it's almost one to one and things are going to be a lot less expensive” and I said yes, if only we hadn't spent $1600 on each ticket to get there, you know, this trip would just pay for itself. I mean like the price for just flying to Europe has gone up almost exponentially over those years, but it's weird how the Exchange rate has changed.
Mary Jo: Yep, yep.
Leo: Yeah we're going to be in Europe in July.
Paul: Really, what part?
Leo: We're starting in Amsterdam, and then we're going on a river cruise down the Rhine, the Main, to the Danube. So we're going to end up in Ist, not Istanbul, um Budapest.
Paul: Oh, I always wanted to do that, that is awesome! I've always wanted, I'm dying! Please post pictures of that.
Leo: So Germany, Althea. Oh I will, I will. I'm going to Meerkat the whole trip.
Paul: Thanks! Ha, nice. Just put your camera or your phone on a stick.
Leo: Phone on a stick, just turn it on and two weeks later I'll turn it off.
Paul: Nice, then you'll speed it up and you'll have like a thirty second version of it.
Leo: Ha ha, hey that's actually, you know that's kind of an interesting idea!
Paul: A time lapse.
Leo: I could do a hyper-lapse of the whole trip.
Paul: It's like the river going down....
Leo: Pbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrr It would be kinda fun!
Paul: Just do part of it I mean it would be..
Leo: No I will do that. You know this is, it's unfortunate, because there's all these things to do with social media and your phone...
Paul: It's like you can't even enjoy it while you're there because you're like “Hold on I gotta make a panorama and (unintelligible)”.
Leo: Yeah! Exactly! I might just leave everything behind.
Paul: The rest of the family is already gone and they're eating dinner.
Leo: Yeah! Oh that's the real problem. They go “Again! Again with the camera phone”. Um, alright, there you go. Surface 3. Everything you've ever wanted to know and maybe a little more about the loop.
Paul: Just maybe a little bit more about a really stupid part of it.
Leo: You mentioned Redstone Mary Jo, do you want to talk a little bit about that, because he of course is not going to talk about it. Is it Windows 11?
Mary Jo: No, so Redstone is the code, this is all from sources, Microsoft's not commenting on this. Neil Win, Brad Sims over there, he broke a story this week saying Redstone was the code name of the next version of Windows in 2016. So, that seems really odd because Microsoft has said Windows 10 is the next version and we're just going to keep updating that. So, it was curious, what is Redstone? Well it turns out, sources say, that Redstone is Windows in 2016, but it's still Windows 10. Redstone is just a bigger update to Windows 10, than these incremental monthly updates that we're getting. So what we know-
Leo: A Service Pack 1.
Mary Jo: It's kind of like a Service Pack, yeah. Um. So what we know this week from sources that we didn't know last week about the schedule is, Microsoft's still on this two bigger, kind of bigger blobs of features per year. Right. So there's going to be Windows 10 RTMing this summer, then there's gonna be a regular monthly updates to it after it RTMs, then this fall sometime there's going to be a bigger update. So that also is still Windows 10 and part of the threshold wave. Next year there's going to be, in the summer, a very much more major update to Windows 10 and we think that is what Redstone is. And then there will be a fall, also more major update. So summer, fall, summer, fall seems to be the schedule. But I believe, I believe Windows Redstone is gonna still be Windows 10. I don't think they're going to jump to 11 or 12. I think it's just another kind of bigger set of features. And what's in that, I don't know. No information. That's all we know.
Leo: I wonder why Redstone. That's an interesting code name.
Paul: Oh, Mary Jo (unintelligible)
Mary Jo: Well, we'll talk about that in the code name, we'll talk about that when we talk code names today. Why they picked that code name, and it's very interesting.
Leo: Ahhhh, okay good! You know what I like.
Paul: You gotta, I can't wait for this. This is very interesting we'll do it in a little bit.
Leo: Okay, alright.
Paul: There's a little bit of trivia around this.
Leo: Good, good. Um, let’s see. Fire TV Stick. Is this you playing with this Paul? Must be, Mary Jo doesn't actually have a TV.
Paul: Yeah you know um-
Mary Jo: No, I do not.
Leo: It wouldn't be much fun for Mary Jo to play with it.
Paul: Well, you know I review and use a lot of different devices like living room set top box type devices and obviously these streaming media sticks have kinda been a big deal over the past year or so. Um, both of the new, or I should say, via a software update the newer generation Rokus, Roku 2 and Roku 3, and more recently the Fire TV and Fire TV stick have advertised mirror-cast compatibility which lets you do screen sharing from a compatible device which should be Windows, Windows Phone, and Android. Neither of these devices actually work properly with Windows and sometime in the past week Amazon delivered an update to Fire TV and Fire TV Stick that supposedly fixes this. And what I've found is it's very spotty. I got it to work on a Windows Phone with no audio and I was never able to get it to work on the, I only tried two different laptops but two different Windows, PC devices. So I think there's some work to be done here. The basic advice here is that, if you're looking for some way to cast content from your Windows device, whether it's a phone or tablet or whatever, to your HD TV, I think the best solution right now is still that Microsoft Wireless Display adapter. I think it's about $69, it's the stick type one that plugs into an HTMI port. Super reliable, super fast, just kinda works every time. I think it's the one mirror-cast device that I've ever used that actually works. So, I know a lot of people have these other devices and it would be nice to have one thing that did everything but I've never found one Roku, Fire Stick, whatever that works well.
Leo: Actually glad to hear this because, well not glad to hear this information, because people often ask me how to do this.
Paul: Yeah. Well honestly Roku updated their devices and I'll just mention that really quickly. One of the big innovations in Fire TV, Fire TV Stick is it has voice control, actually it's just Fire TV comes with it built in. You get a remote that has a microphone in it that can do voice control. So it works like the Kinect does with Xbox One for like $100 rather than for $500. Roku updated it's devices and if you buy Roku 3 you get a remote that has a microphone that can do the same thing and that's kind of a neat deal. Roku devices are great and I would say probably the best device over all for a living room, unless obviously you're in a Apple ecosystem but, that screen sharing thing just doesn't work, if you have a Windows device. Maybe someday it will, but today, no. It's too bad.
Leo: Um, this is um uh-
Leo: Conf, no, not at all. I understand it completely.
Paul: Okay. Well no, the next one is confusing I can tell you that.
Leo: Oh, yeah. Office Lens.
Paul: Oh, I'm in the wrong place, I'm sorry.
Leo: Oh, I know which one you're gonna talking about.
Paul: I'm looking at an Xbox terminal.
Leo: Yeah, yeah and everybody's saying “Oh did you see?” and yes we did, of course, these guys see everything, they see all. We'll talk about the OTA update in a second but, uh no, Office Lens once again Iowa and Anchorage-
Mary Jo: Oh weren't those phone users burned? They were burned!
Leo: Yeah, Buuuurrrrnnnneeeddd.
Paul: Because they don't like to see other people getting what they have.
Mary Jo: Oh okay. But they already have it. It's not like at least, at least this time Microsoft came out with something first on Windows phone.
Leo: Okay, it's true, it's true.
Mary Jo: Look on the bright side.
Leo: What is Office Lens for those who don't know?
Mary Jo: It's kinda like a scanning program almost. You take a picture with the camera phone, and you can take a picture of white boards or notes or receipts or business cards, and it cleans it up, it kind of centers it, and it takes the crinkles out and makes it look really nice and it saves it either to your One Drive or you can actually save it to your One Drive and then can convert it to a Word document, I believe as well, or One Note also. And so this is something we've had for a while on Windows Phone I don't know how long, like number of months at least. Right?
Paul: Almost a year but...
Mary Jo: Yeah, I've used it a lot because, I've mentioned it before, beer menus, beer menus, takes really good pictures.
Leo: It shows up as an add-on for the camera right? It's a lens for the camera. On Nokia anyway.
Mary Jo: I think it's just an app, isn't it?
Leo: On the Nokia key...
Paul: Actually, I think it does show up as a, I don't believe it's a camera lens.
Mary Jo: Yeah, I think it's an app. Yeah, you can just take pictures of these images. Handy for white boards if you're in school or if you're sneaking around the campus office and trying to take pictures of things. Gabe Aul diagrams from his white board.
Paul: Right, right.
Leo: Oh the irony, using Office Lens against them! (evil laugh)
Mary Jo: Exactly. Yeah so now Microsoft is bringing this application to iPhone and Android phones.
Leo: So why does it say leaving Windows phone users burned here?
Paul: Because we are a prickly bunch of-
Mary Jo: Yes.
Leo: Of what's, of somethings
Paul: people who don't like to see other people get what we have.
Mary Jo: Exactly, yeah. Everyone's like “Oh this is one of Microsoft's crown jewels and one of the things you get as a benefit of being a Windows phone user and now it's going to these other platforms too.”
Leo: Oh big deal.
Mary Jo: So people say “Why should I use Windows Phone again?” Like what do I get that they don't get? Nothing!
Leo: Well, you shouldn't.
Paul: Well, you get the calming effect on your soul.
Mary Jo: There you go!
Leo: You get Cortana!
Mary Jo: Yeah, but Cortana's gonna come to these other platforms too I think.
Leo: Oh, that's true. But it won't be a appear.
Mary Jo: It won't be as deeply integrated.
Leo: No, it's the same thing with like the Siri and Google Voice on the iPhone. Siri is operating system wide, Google Voice is just in the app, it'll be the same thing I'm sure.
Paul: Siri is like a Tick. It's-
Leo: Yeah, it's in everything you..
Paul: -burrowing into the fur of IOX.
Mary Jo: Yeah, so if you're an iPhone user you can go get this app now, it's there in the store now, it's free, and if you're an Android phone user you can get the preview of the app from the Play Store, also free. So yeah, I know a lot of people have heard us talk about it on Windows Weekly who don't use Windows phone and Windows they say “Ah, that sounds cool”. It is cool, you should go try it out, it's free, why not?
Paul: Yeah, I love this thing. I use this fairly regularly.
Leo: It is cool and you should do it!
Mary Jo: Do it!
Leo: Do it! Let's see, what else. You know I think this is fine I don't, the best ex, Satya Nadella said it, “The best experience will always be on Windows but we want to be wherever our customers are.”
Paul: You know, we didn't put the F Windows story into our show notes. Right, I assume you guys covered this.
Leo: Yeah we did, go ahead, tell us about it.
Paul: Um because, well, because this falls into that category.
Leo: This is, so Microsoft's 40th anniversary was Friday of the April 5th forty years ago, 1975, Paul Allen and Bill Gates created Microsoft in Albuquerque. And the story in the Economist about this, which I thought was great-
Mary Jo: It was, it was good.
Leo: -began with the F word like in the first sentence.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: Apparently someone went to Bill and suggested something, and Bill Gates said “What do you wanna do, F Windows?”
Paul: Right, and that was the strategy.
Leo: And it's the F Windows strategy. What did they call it, the Windows tax? Strategy tax is the word they used, the phrase they used.
Mary Jo: Yeah, strategy tax.
Paul: Yeah. We call it mobile first, cloud first, is what we call it.
Leo: But for years that, we knew that, and that was one of the reasons so many great ideas from Microsoft got killed before they were born because they would impact the core businesses.
Paul: You don't have to be a Microsoft historian to know some of the basic facts about Microsoft, that this company was started to provide a version of the basic programming language for the Altair that they then ported basic to other computer systems like Comet, Atari, well maybe not Atari, Apple and the Amiga that they went on to productivity software that they got into operating systems only because digital research screwed up and they really didn't want to be part of the IBM PC OS. You know-
Leo: Yeah, right. It's actually a great article, it's really fun to read.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Paul: -the point is in some ways what they're doing now is a lot like what they used to do that, Windows by being so phenomenally successful and sidelining the entire PC industry for twenty years, kind of, maybe in the long run will be seen as an anomaly for Microsoft that we had this kinda uni, kinda like a mono culture going on with Windows that was in fact temporary. That by attaching their productivity wares and services to whatever platforms that people used wherever they might be could be in fact a very successful venture for Microsoft that could be bigger than anything they ever did. We grew up in the Windows world, where Windows is our thing, all of us, at least Mary Jo and I certainly, and we sorta see life through that kind of Windows lens. But really it's more of a broader Microsoft lens that-
Leo: If Microsoft's lucky, that's what's gonna happen!
Mary Jo: Right.
Leo: That's what it needs to do.
Paul: Unlucky or you know doesn't-
Leo: Doesn't execute. But that is what you want to have happen because the other option is much more common, which is the business model from the 90s which was..
Paul: Well of course. Remember the original service device when it came out had the Windows logo on them, and the second generation had the Surface logo on it, and the current generation surface device has the Microsoft logo on it. And that's part of it. We're moving into this new thing, or maybe it's going back to an old thing I guess. Honestly, I mean ultimately the lack of Windows centricity is probably a healthy and good thing for everyone, but when you're very used to things being a certain way its-
Leo: It's difficult.
Paul: -it's hard to change.
Leo: Hey um-
Mary Jo: Well, I-
Leo: Go ahead.
Mary Jo: Oh I was just gonna say, when I wrote a little, I wrote a little thing about the 40th anniversary too but, just to show you how different Microsoft has become if forty years, I talked about how this week, I mean, well now last week, Mark Russinovich, who is the Chief Technology officer for Azure was at a conference in San Francisco and he said in response to a question “We definitely have within the realm of possibility the idea of open sourcing Windows.” He actually said “We would consider open sourcing Windows.” It's the antithesis of the old Microsoft right. I don't know if they ever will or can open source Windows, but just even saying that is so different from Microsoft that the economist is describing there, it's just totally a different company now.
Leo: Yeah. Well to that point on I Pad Today this week they're talking about ways of making scrapbooks and I pointed out that Microsoft Sway works great in the browser, in Safari browser. I was so impressed of your Sways from Vietnam, Mary Jo, I actually showed some of them. Um, I though, you know even though this is a web app in effect, I wonder if they're going to do Sway for iOS though.
Mary Jo: They have already. It's the first app that they built outside the browser. You can get it from the App Store now, there's Sway. A preview version.
Leo: It wasn't there last week. That's awesome!
Mary Jo: Oh really, huh?! I'm pretty sure it's in there!
Paul: Sorry to interrupt real quick, I just wanted to correct something I said earlier. Office lens is in fact a lens.
Mary Jo: Yes.
Leo: That's what I thought! I mean I remember seeing it in-
Mary Jo: Yep.
Leo: -on my (unintelligible)
Paul: I apologize and the reason I said it wasn't is when they updated the app I went and looked in the lenses I saw three icons, none of which were for lens, and I went on and it says it's not a lens, but one of those icons is for lenses and then you go in there and it's in there so I apologize for my mistake, it is in fact a lens.
Leo: No, no, it's fine.
Mary Jo: Yeah, Sway, there it is, it's in the store.
Leo: It is! Because I had searched for it, let me see. Oh maybe it's way down somewhere.
Mary Jo: Yeah it's, its a preview. Is it a preview? No, I don't think it is a preview.
Leo: Look at all the Microsoft corporation things, there's so many apps!
Mary Jo: I know, version 1.3 the Sway app for iOS. There it is.
Leo: Oh, we'll have to take back that entire-
Mary Jo: Try it out.
Leo: -episode. Actually it worked fine in Safari but it would be-
Paul: Is it available for iPad or is it just iPhone?
Leo: Oh, maybe just iPhone.
Mary Jo: I think it's just for the phone-
Leo: Oh, that's why.
Mary Jo: -at this point.
Paul: I think it's only..
Leo: That's why, that's why.
Mary Jo: Yep. But they're going to be expanding the app availability to iPad and Android and Windows and Windows phone.
Paul: It's been a while though hasn't it? I think the iPhone app debuted in October.
Mary Jo: It did, yep.
Paul: Right back in-
Mary Jo: Yeah it was last Fall.
Paul: It's still the only version other than, than the web version.
Leo: I still want to see it so I don't know what's going on. It must be-
Mary Jo: You'll find it.
Leo: -it must be something wrong with me.
Mary Jo: I just searched Sway app store iOS.
Paul: I usually do like app name site colon iTunes.Apple.com.
Leo: I went in my iPad and I looked for everything Microsoft makes.
Paul: Yeah see you can't do that Leo, um.
Leo: My mistake!
Paul: It's like when you're trying to search for a Microsoft app in the Windows store and you search and it doesn't come up, that's always-
Leo: That's not-
Paul: It's hilarious.
Leo: -yeah but I mean, you think Apple, having done this longer than anybody including Microsoft would have their search working.
Paul: Nah, I've run into this one before as well.
Leo: Pfffft. You can now, and this is good news because Lisa and I are both going on this trip I think, I dearly hope. And so it would be nice if we could co-author one Sway, two people. That's the new feature, that's nice.
Mary Jo: Yep.
Leo: How many co-authors, as many as you want? Or...
Paul: It's definitely more than two, I don't know if there's a limit.
Leo: Nice, so it can become a collaborative thing. You know for a wedding you could give people the Sway location and everybody uploads their pictures, I mean what a great idea!
Mary Jo: Also good for students doing projects.
Leo: So you give access by adding, you click the person and you give them, and you add new author.
Mary Jo: Yeah, if people out there haven't tried Sway, I can tell you, I have found it easier to use than One Note. Because everyone knows I have trouble with One Note and I keep kiddingly saying to people “It's so easy even a Journalist can do it.” It is, like you just drag and drop stuff, it's like really, really, really easy. I know nothing about Photo Shop, I never use it.
Leo: You're looks great!
Mary Jo: Yeah, it looks good. It looks good, not a lot of work.
Paul: That's the point of it that you don't have to know how to design something if you go into Power Point you have to know how Power Point works, you have to be good at that. And Sway is designed for people who don't, you know you have a story to tell but you don't want to necessarily become a designer.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: Could it be called Swing?
Mary Jo: Nope. Sway. I found it, I'll send you the link.
Paul: So are you searching the web or the store?
Leo: I'm actually on my iPad looking for it.
Mary Jo: Do the web instead.
Paul: Yeah if you do the store from the iPad can you look for iPhone apps?
Mary Jo: I would just say use Bing or Google.
Leo: No, no that won't help because you're on an iPad.
Mary Jo: Really?
Leo: Yeah, you have to...
Paul: No, it will help because if you bring up the iTunes page-
Mary Jo: You'll find it at least.
Leo: It'll give you a link, yeah.
Paul: It'll load the store.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: See here I am, and by the way this is an impressive list, looking at, these are apps from Microsoft. These are iPad apps and it goes on and on and on and include such fabulous things as Ms. Splosion Man.
Paul: By the way, it's called Office Sway. So you need to search for that.
Leo: Office Sway!
Mary Jo: Ah.
Paul: Because there's a game called Sway.
Leo: Yeah. Of course. Kinectimals Lite, One Drive for Business, Wordament, there's a lot of games!
Paul: Well, look for the green icon, green eyes icon. There it is.
Leo: You see it?
Paul: You got it, yep. Oh no, that's B. Sorry, I thought that was an S.
Leo: BI, Business Intelligence.
Paul: It looks just like that.
Leo: So, I'm going to say, look for Office Sway.
Paul: I mean honestly on an iPad you might just want to use the web version so you can take advantage of the screen.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: It works great in Safari iPhone only. There it is, you're right. It's called Office Sway by Microsoft Corporation and for some reason it's not showing up in the Microsoft bunch of apps so-
Paul: That's really strange.
Leo: -there are even more. You know it's not Microsoft's fault it's Apples obviously, their store is crazy. this is crazy. So Office Sway is the search term.
Paul: Yeah I mean on the web it shows up as Microsoft's apps. It's funny.
Leo: Yeah. And you're right I think Safari probably would be better giving that you're limited to and iPhone version.
Leo: It's good, I like it!
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: (Sighs) Okay, let me put that away. Do you want to talk Xbox now or should we, are there other..
Mary Jo: Wait, can we talk about..
Leo: Containers, cont.
Mary Jo: Containers!
Leo: So somebody calls the radio show on Saturday or Sunday and says “I read this article in the Wall Street Journal about containers. I have no idea, do I need to know what containers are?” And I talked about Docker, it's kinda like a virtual machine, right Mary Jo basically?
Mary Jo: Yeah, kind of.
Mary Jo: Yeah it is like a container. You can put your apps and your services in it and it kind of isolates you from the operating system so when there are changes you kind of have your applications separate from the OS, right. And it's something the developers like because it makes it easier to update and change things without breaking something because you update something and it breaks the other app or service or operating system that you have running. So it's becoming, it's becoming the big thing now.
Leo: Is this preferable to a virtual machine?
Mary Jo: You know I just had this conversation with Microsoft today, in fact, because they announced they're going to have two kinds of containers in the next version of Windows server. We already knew they were, well three actually, they were gonna have the ability to run Linux apps, you know Linux on, in a container. Right. Then they're going to have Windows Server containers. But they're also going to have Hyper V containers. And Hyper V is their virtualisation technology. I always thought of Docker containers as the opposite, or the antithesis, of a container, but no Microsoft says if you need something to be truly isolated, if you're in a multi-tenant environment for example, or you're running third party software you don't trust, you know, it's not an app you built, but something you're running from someone else, you can wrap it in Hyper V and run a virtualised container. So that's also going to be in Windows server 2016. So it is kind of like an alternative to virtualisation technology but it can be used in combination with virtualisation as well. Does that make any sense?
Mary Jo: Doing my best.
Leo: What I told the guys, don't worry about it.
Mary Jo: Don't, ha, just don't worry about it.
Leo: It's a hot topic right now, in fact we interviewed the Docker guys on Floss Weekly last week, and I said when the Wall Street Journal writes about something like that they're not writing about technology, they're writing about investment opportunities. And so what they're really saying is look for companies in the container business. But really Docker kind of owns it really right now.
Mary Jo: Yeah, well Dockers like the deployment engine that everybody talks about when they talk about containers.
Leo: Oh it's not the actual technology?
Mary Jo: The, no the containers themselves are what Docker manages, if that makes sense.
Leo: Yeah, yeah.
Mary Jo: Yeah. If you go to Dockers website if you really wanna see what is a container. If you go on Docker.com and “What is Docker” they have some nice block diagrams where they show you, here's how a virtual machine works and it's on top of a Hypervisor host OS Server, and then when you have Docker containers and Docker engine it shows you a different picture where your, you don't need to have that virtualisation layer necessarily.
Paul: I cannot tell you how much this topic excites me.
Mary Jo: I can tell, it's like Xbox right?
Leo: Well, you know why people are interested in this...
Paul: No, don't. Go on.
Leo: Because, well for a couple of reasons, if you're a developer everybody's kinda familiar with this notion by, because you would spin up a instance on EC2 on Amazon's elastic cloud or on Azure, um, and then if you're, and this is what's interesting in the news is, you're going to be able to run Server out of it right, and you can make a Nano Server.
Mary Jo: Oh yes, the Nano Server is the other thing they announced today which, it's funny, we had this as our code name of the week last week, Tuva, t-u-v-a.
Leo: Oh yeah!
Mary Jo: So that was Nano Server and Microsoft hadn't publicly confirmed it, but today they did, and they said there is going to be a Nano Server mode for Windows Server 2016. And what it is, its a really stripped down version of Server. They say it's going to be 1/20th of the size of the Windows Server core right now. So it's only going to be those essential components that you really need, and they're saying if you're somebody who's thinking about running containers, this would be one of the best ways to run it, run it on top of this Nano Server. We're gonna hear a lot more about these two things at Build and also at Ignite so this is just the tip of the iceberg on this. Paul's gonna hear tons more about this in future episodes.
Paul: (Snores) Oh G-. Sorry, what? We're still talking about this? What happened?
Leo: It's Sandbox too, which is kind of valuable.
Mary Jo: Yep. Yep.
Leo: Soon you'll be running containers on your-
Paul: I told Jeffery today that Power Shell was far more important than Nano Servers and he said “What, are you Mark Russinovich?”
Leo: Although Mark runs Azure so I imagine he's all over containers.
Leo: Um, so that's interesting because on the Docker site it says “Docker replaces Hypervisor.”
Mary Jo: I know, yep. And Microsoft is saying there are some cases where you can use Hyper V and containers together.
Mary Jo: Yep. Stay tuned, more to come. They're going to show off containers at Build they said, they're going to have some demos of Windows Server Next running it and if you're wondering, if you're one of those people wondering when are you going to get the next preview of Windows Server it's not just Mobile people care about but Server, you're going to get it in May, that's all we know right now but sometime in May we'll see the second preview of Windows Server 2016.
Paul: And the other thing to keep in mind too is that the current build expires next week and-
Mary Jo: But they're going to extend it, so.
Paul: -and they're going to extend it, probably this Windows update or whatever.
Mary Jo: Yeah, yep. So don't worry, nobody panic.
Paul: I actually thought that was going to be the news today when I saw Windows Server had something and then it was kinda, it was even less interesting.
Mary Jo: No!
Leo: This is good. So, Paul has no interest in this, you have no interest in Xbox. This is good. We have our lines of demarcation.
Mary Jo: Tradeoffs.
Paul: We have our areas.
Leo: Speaking of Xbox, the April 2015 update is out. Everybody should have it, right, by now.
Paul: Yeah, everyone should be able to get it now. And not everything they talked about was actually in there but the big one to me, this is a 3-4 big updates, but the big one's just, it's the achievement thing you know, when you get the achievement it pops up that achievement unlocked and it gives you the name of the achievement and it gives you how many gamer points you got, gamer score points, and that's it. And you can press and hold on the Xbox button to see the achievement and learn more but often times this thing comes up in the middle of a game and you want to keep going, and so now what they do is they animate the achievement notification so it shows you the description as well. Which is, you know, it's a little thing but it's really helpful so it's kind of a cool one.
Leo: I also found this really interesting, they're turning on the over the air antenna.
Paul: This is the one I was confused on earlier, this is the confusing one because in Europe and in Australia last October, I think, they started selling their own digital TV tuner like the USB based TV tuner which is a really elegant Xbox style looking device. And so starting now people in the United States and Canada can access over the air TV on their Xbox One but not using a Microsoft device. Which of course they have a different TV standard there. I just don't understand why they didn't make one for the North American model.
Leo: How does it work in the US and Canada? You have another..
Paul: You buy a special hodgepodge, piece of crap, USB device. It seriously looks like it's ten years old. It has a coax on one end which you have to hook to an HD TV antenna which, you know, of course. And I was telling Mary Jo I recently actually just bought one of these antennas it's attached to my-
Leo: Oh, a Win TV, yeah!
Paul: Yeah. And then you attach the other one to the USB port on your Xbox One.
Leo: You know the best thing to do, I have a TiVo that goes into my Xbox-
Paul: You're missing the point, you're missing the point Leo. It doesn't just give you crappy quality TV over the air, it also doesn't record it. So this is literally just live TV only.
Leo: Oh, this is dumb. This is dumb.
Paul: Uh, after writing this up what I was told was that a more elegant solution is coming and presumably they're going to add recording at some point. I cannot believe you can't DVR on that.
Leo: Yeah because right now I have to buy a second device, a TiVo to do all of that.
Paul: Yeah but, ideally.. I know-
Leo: But I've got a 3TB drive on my Xbox, it'd be great if I could just make that into a DVR.
Paul: -it makes no sense. Yeah. So, better than nothing but only barely and uh, well it's a first step. Well, they introduce this thing for you know Europe and Australia last year and I was like why would you start there but, or what do you know, why would you just be there would be the better way to say it, but we're getting there, so it's a step. If you want live TV, obviously non premium channels um, it might work.
Leo: Well that's the other thing, you need something with cable card capability, which this does not have, and since, so you won't be able to use it with your cable, it's really for an antenna.
Paul: It's literally, its for free, well you know, over the air depending on the antenna, depending on your position and all that stuff it can be very high quality there can be-
Leo: Oh sure!
Paul: -tens of channels, you know it's not terrible. Well, you know, I mean it's not going to be ESPN and-
Leo: No, and your cable company encrypts-
Paul: -HBO, it's going to be locally (unintelligible).
Leo: everything from 0-5000 so for that you can't use this. In fact that's why I use a TiVo, I put a cable card in the back of it, that's my set top box with Comcast. And now I have the DVR. And the TiVo passes for an Xbox.
Paul: I was so excited when I saw this headline, I thought this was the big one.
Leo: Yeah, no.
Paul: And then the more you get into it, it's so convoluted and weird, third party hardware. Like what, what is this thing? It's literally live, you could pause live TV, they give you that.
Leo: Oh you can? So there's some buffering going on.
Paul: You can pause, there's some buffering yeah.
Paul: You can snap it, you can watch TV in a little window while you play a game if you wanted to do that.
Leo: There's Channel Master if you want to do that DVR thing with a antenna over the air and that would work also.
Paul: I literally just bought like an antenna, and I have a hodgepodge card on my PC, and I've been using it with Windows Media Center just to kinda reacquaint myself with this thing, I haven't used it in a while. And the antenna I'm using is an inside antenna but it's big and it kinda slaps onto the window like a big lamp read kinda thing.
Leo: Nice, good. Yeah. Betcha Stephanie loves that.
Paul: Well, it's in my office anyways.
Leo: Yeah, it's going to stay in your office too.
Paul: Yeah, the cat is desperate to pull this thing off the window but...
Leo: It's going to stay there.
Paul: Yep, it's glued, it's on there.
Leo: Not on my windows you don't.
Paul: Actually I think it will come off, but it will take the paint off the glass with it.
Leo: Kinect, oh you know we were talking about what's going on with Kinect for Windows. They hadn't updated it. Well, didn't need to I guess.
Paul: Mary Jo wrote about this didn't she? Didn't you?
Mary Jo: Yep I did.
Leo: What's the story?
Mary Jo: Yeah so um, you know there were two Kinects. There was the Kinect for, well actually three. Kinect for Xbox 360, Kinect for Xbox One, and then there's the Kinect Sensor for Windows.
Mary Jo: Microsoft announced last year that they had created an adapter kit so that if you were using Kinect with Windows you could actually use the Xbox One Kinect and not have to use the Xbox Kinect. But now they've decided they're discontinuing making the Kinect for Windows, so they're saying if you're somebody who wants to build an app for Kinect for Windows, in the future, you should just use the adapter kit and build it so it works with the Xbox One Kinect. So you know, we've been kind of wondering how much Microsoft was going to go forward with this whole Kinect on Windows and Kinect even for Xbox and now that they've decoupled selling the Kinect from the Xbox and it turns out they're going to continue to support you. They're still going to have resources going into this but it feels a bit de-emphasized, I have to say. They're still actively recruiting developers and they still want people to build Kinect for Windows app but now they're consolidating it so they're not making two Kinects, they're just making one.
Mary Jo: One Kinect for all.
Leo: And it's a powerful device, I mean the one on Xbox One is really kind of amazing.
Mary Jo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah it is.
Leo: Alright, I want to get the calendar down here because you're going to be at Ignite, you're going to be at Build, you're going to be all over the place.
Paul: Leo, it's worse than you think.
Leo: We talked a little bit about it last week, but I want everybody to understand what's coming up. So, Build is first right?
Mary Jo: Build is first.
Leo: What is that date?
Mary Jo: So, it's April 30th, Thursday.
Mary Jo: Thursday night at Build we're having a meet up at a place called The Irish Bank, which is a bar.
Leo: It's a good name.
Paul: It's not a bank.
Leo: It's a good name.
Mary Jo: Not a bank, it's a bar.
Leo: It's a bar, of course.
Mary Jo: 5:30-8:30 no RSVP needed just show up if you want to come and you don't have to be an attendee of Ignite if you just happen to be in San Francisco and you want to meet up with me, Paul, a bunch of other Microsoft bloggers who are coming to the show, who say they are going to come to the meet up. Chris Woodruff, who is the guy organized this for us. All of us will be there and we're just going to drink beer and eat snacks and talk. That's all.
Leo: Nice, nice!
Mary Jo: That's it.
Paul: That's about as geek as it sounds.
Leo: Then the next week you're going to come up to Petaluma and we're going to do Windows Weekly-
Mary Jo: Yes.
Paul: Maybe actually...
Leo: On Friday that week.
Paul: Yeah, you should explain, Leo, do you have to RSVP this time? Is that how this works?
Paul: Is it fair to say there will be a mountain of shrimp on ice or is it a...
Leo: yeah, and a chocolate fountain. Yeah.
Paul: There it is. A train that rides around the whole place and delivers food.
Leo: You can ride on the train, it's full size! It's the easiest way to get from Studio A to Studio Z.
Paul: It is a big facility.
Leo: It's a giant facility, giant. 2 PM Pacific, that's 5 PM Eastern time.
Paul: It's May 1st.
Leo: 1st day of May, May Day, oh I like that!
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Leo: We're gonna get a little May Pole and I'm gonna make sure you guys wear little laurel wreaths-
Mary Jo: Skirts.
Leo: -skirts and dance in your durndls.
Paul: And we'll all be wearing pastel colors.
Leo: Yep, it'll be lovely. Uh 2100UTC.
Paul: We still have snow out here by the way-
Leo: What?! What?! No!
Paul: -just to give you an idea how desperate I am for Spring. It's not everywhere, we see ground. But there is snow still left, yes.
Leo: You know, you should come up the weekend before because it's Butter and Eggs day in Petaluma.
Paul: I will (unintelligible)
Leo: You could come to the Butter and Eggs day parade.
Mary Jo: What is the Butter and Eggs day?
Leo: What, you don't know?!
Mary Jo: I've never heard of it.
Paul: It's world famous.
Leo: It's our day. It's a day we in Petaluma take to celebrate the renown of Petaluma butter and Petaluma eggs.
Paul: Do you cotton to outsiders at such an event, or is this only for..
Leo: Oh yeah, it's a fun parade, it's a small town parade so what we do is everybody's in the parade, but the requirement is when you get passed the reviewing stand you go sit down and watch the other people. That way everybody gets to be in it, but also there's an audience.
Paul: So the-
Mary Jo: Oh nice.
Paul: parade in effect kinda leap frogs forward, you know, like the crowd kinda..
Leo: Yes, it's like a centipede.
Paul: No it's fun, there's tractors, there's chickens, there's chicken riding tractors. It's uh, nah it is actually really fun here if it's a nice day. If it rains it's very sad. But you know the Lions Club has their pancake feed in the morning, all you can eat!
Paul: Oh my..
Mary Jo: That's fun.
Leo: And there's a contest, the Cutest Little Chicken Town contest, where parents humiliate their children by dressing them as chickens, and then parade them for cash prizes. So that's good. There's the, are they going to do the cow patty toss again this year? Because there was an accident last year.
Paul: That's the big, on Dedhum day, the big event is that we put a cow in the field and it gets grid-ed off, and you buy a grid, and if the cow poops in the grid you win the contest.
Leo: Yeah, many small New England towns do that.
Paul: We don't have a lot going on in Danhum.
Mary Jo: We don't do this in New York for some reason. I'm not really sure why.
Leo: That's where the term “Cake Walk” comes from. You know that right?
Mary Jo: No.
Leo: Yeah, it's a cake walk. Look it up!
Mary Jo: Okay.
Leo: And of course I, as always, dress in a suit made of butter.
Paul: Of actual butter?
Leo: Actual butter.
Paul: Yeah, you better hope there's not a heat wave.
Leo: Well, you don't want rain either, it's a difficult, there's a fine line.
Paul: If you can like slip and slide your way down the street.
Leo: You want the Goldilocks weather.
Leo: So that's May Day we're gonna be here in studio, and please do come we'd love to have you. Tickets at Twit.tv. And then Ignite is what, the following week?
Mary Jo: The following week, in Chicago.
Leo: Okay, well that's on your way home at least.
Mary Jo: Yeah. So, the first event, I can't still disclose full details on this, but if you're at Ignite on Sunday, the day before it starts, there's going to be a beer lovers event that you're not going to want to miss. And I'll talk about it more next week on Windows Weekly, but I can't disclose everything on that yet.
Leo: It's too bad Chicago doesn't have any good beer.
Mary Jo: I know, too bad right? Yeah, darn.
Leo: Oh rats.
Mary Jo: Oh rats. No, they have a lot of good beer, And it should be very fun. And then Paul and I are going to have a meet up for Windows Weekly listeners who happen to be in town and want to come and meet up on Monday night. We haven't got the venue yet but we'll let you know that next week also. It'll be another no RSVP, just show up, kind of deal.
Mary Jo: And then Paul has another event.
Paul: Yeah I didn't put it in note. So on Tuesday my workplaces, Petri.com-Thurrott.com Happy Hour event on Tuesday May 5th from 5:30-7:30 local time. It's going to be at Crawls South Loop in Chicago. I think you have to, if you register and you're among the first 300 people who register you get that Thurrott-Petri beer stein, which is awesome. And then we're gonna be, it's like a special edition for Ignite, and then finally after Ignite we're gonna start selling coffee mugs and steins.
Leo: Ah neat! I love the coffee mug, I really do.
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Paul: Wait til you see this stein, it's awesome.
Leo: Does it have that logo, the T on it?
Paul: Yeah, but it's like, it's actually phenomenal.
Mary Jo: Save me one!
Paul: Yeah, yeah.
Leo: And before we take our break, the last item on your list, Build Tour. So they're going to take Build around the world?
Paul: Yeah, so obviously not everyone can get out to San Francisco for the week long Build event that's happening, so they're going to have day long events in many cities around the world. North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, New Zeland. And I think they start right after Build and they go all the way through the end of the summer. So if you go to, where do you find out about this?
Mary Jo: And they're free. You should know they're free, and Microsoft's going to have representatives from different teams at them, so it's not like you're just sitting looking at web casts, there's gonna be live people there to ask real questions.
Paul: Yeah, I don't have a simple website for you to go to.
Mary Jo: No.
Paul: Actually got to Build15.com, that should do it. And yeah, find out if this is, there's not one in Boston which is a little disappointing I have to say.
Mary Jo: Oh, there isn't?
Leo: There's got to be one though somewhere like New York or somewhere.
Paul: Well, New York City probably.
Mary Jo: There is. New York. Yeah there is, New York City.
Paul: Chicago, Toronto, Atlanta, Austin, Las Angeles.
Mary Jo: London, and also many cities outside the US too.
Paul: Yeah, many outside the United States, that's right. Brazil's one of them, Brazil.
Leo: I think this is a time for developers to get excited about Windows.
Mary Jo: Yep.
Leo: I mean this really is an opportunity. (Singing) Brush up your Zamel, start it today! Alright, the back of the book coming up. Paul and Mary Jo have picks, beer, great stuff. I have food!
Blue Apron! I have to say cooking is one of the greatest satisfactions ever. And I know a lot of you go, I can't boil water, but making a meal for somebody you love, and they eat it. It just warms your heart. But who has time? We're working, you wouldn't want to go shopping and plan the meal, all of that. Blue Apron is so cool. You get a box, in the box it's refrigerated, nothing's frozen by the way it's all fresh, is everything you need to make an incredible meal. It's easy too because not only do you get the ingredients, fresh ingredients, perfectly per-portioned, you also get step by step recipe instructions including beautiful images. It's all on glossy coated stock suitable for saving. And what's neat is you make this meal, and they're amazing meals. You don't have to take a trip to the grocery store, there's no waste for unused ingredients, It's less than $10 a meal, about 500-700 calories each so they're very healthy. But then you know how to make it! I tell you, it's a great way to start. They change the meal plan all the time, you'll never get the same meal twice in a row. They have a family plan for larger groups with kid-friendly meals. Let's look at some of the things. Uh, Beef, I don't even know what this is. Beef Dukbokki. It looks like Bulgoki with the Quick Kimchi and Sugar Snap Peas, it looks really good. Matzoh-Crusted Chicken with Orange, Fennel, and Golden Beet Salad. Lentil-Crusted Salmon with Spinach-Yogurt Dal and Apricot Chutney. You wanna impress your honey? You gotta big date night coming up? Light a couple of candles and fire up the Blue Apron. Baby Fennel Grapefruit and Almond salad with Olives. Radishes and Wild Rice, and Spiced Turkey Meatball Pitas with Sugar Snap Peas and Bib Lettuce salad. Incredible meals! What's nice is they'll work with you, you're not going to have a box on your door step when you get home from vacation. They don't deliver unless you're ready for it. Shipping is free. And I'm gonna get you your first two meals free right now at BlueApron.com/twit. BlueApron.com/twit. You choose a delivery day that fits your schedule, ingredients arrive in a refrigerated box so the food is fresh even if you're not home. I think we've got two Blue Apron boxes right now in the lobby. We get two so we can share them out with the staff. It's really fun, they like Blue Apron day here. BlueApron.com/twit. Try it today. Two meals, your first two meals free.
Leo: Let's kick things off with Paul Thurrott. The back of the book, and your tip of the week.
Paul: So you may remember that last November, I think, Microsoft temporarily offered something called the “Work and Play” bundle. $149 Office, it gave you a year of Office 365 Home, Xbox Live Gold, Xbox Music Pass, and then Skype Wifi plus Skype Unlimited World so if you add all that stuff up that's like $425 worth of stuff for $150. The only problem was you could only get it at physical Microsoft stores like a card. It was basically probably a little card bought container that had four cards in it or whatever, with four card keys. They're bringing it back again, again it's temporarily, only in the United States unfortunately, so if you live outside the US you can't get it. Also, only available from the Microsoft Store but this time it's only available online. So if you go to Microsoft.com/workandplay, all one word, you'll see a product page for it, it'll give you all the details about the stuff you get. If you use any two of these things I'd say it's basically kind of a no brain-er. I mean, Office 365 Home plus Xbox Live Gold, that's $160 bucks right there. You save money just by buying the Work and Play bundle and you can have the other stuff for free. I use three of the four of these things and so this is a tremendous value. You can stack it, you're just getting product keys so if you're already paying for Office 365 Home, you get this, you can add this to your account it will extend your subscription out for another year.
Leo: Are they going to do this like every year, do you think?
Paul: I don't know, I think they're, the way it was described to me is they're kind of test marketing it. They're trying different things, let's see how this works, let's see how this works. I don't understand why this isn't just a thing. Like, I really feel like they should have these key cards hanging in the store, they should have them online and you should be able to get them anywhere. They're such a tremendous savings and I think it would also get people to use things where they might not. You know people might look at Xbox Music Pass and say “Yeah, I don't really thing I want that.” But when you basically are getting it for free you might throw it on your devices, you might look at it, and you might start actually using it.
Leo: And these are mostly subscription things. So they're gonna get, next year they're gonna get your money. It's actually a smart way to do it.
Paul: Yeah, it's a, this is a huge value. So again, you know, it's US only I apologize if you're outside the US.
Leo: Well, we are the best country.
Paul: I can't control where you live, I mean, sorry.
Leo: Come On! We are #1!
Paul: The software pick was based on, a reader wrote in and was asking me, I know on the Apple side of the fence you could use Key Note, the app. And then you could control it using your phone, using Key Note as well. There used to be a Key Note remote but now it's just built into the Key Note app. So you're doing a presentation on your Mac Book or whatever, you're walking around the room maybe, and you can control it with your app. And the advantage of that is if you look down at the screen of the phone it will show you the next slide, it will show you your notes. You don't have to be standing right on top of your computer. Is there anything like that on the Windows side? And the answer is yes. And as it turns out it's a nice coincidental thing because we were just talking about how Windows Phone users were so burned because all these apps that Microsoft makes are turning up on other platforms or sometimes they make apps first on other platforms. This app is an example, one that as of today, this will change now that I'm highlighting it, but is available only on Windows Phone, and is called Office Remote. And it allows you to do what I just described. You're giving a Power Point presentation on your laptop or whatever, and this allows you to control it from your smart phone. And it does exactly what it sounds like, it's a way to control Power Point in this case. Free app. So if you use Power Point, it's something to look at. Out for, and is something to have you can't get on iOS or Android, until probably tomorrow. I'm sure it's coming, but.
Leo: Ha ha.
Leo: Our enterprise pick of the week with Mary Jo Foley!
Mary Jo: The enterprise pick is called Revolution Analytics. And Revolution Analytics is a company that Microsoft announced they were buying in January. So what they do, Revolution Analytics is they make a distribution of the programming language that's called “R”, the letter R. And R is very key in statistical computing and predictive analysis, machine learning. It's really very important language used by many statisticians and data scientists. So when Microsoft bought Revolution Analytics we weren't really sure what they were going to do with it other than take their distribution of their R and do something with it. This week, because they closed on that-
Leo: Is R the pirate language?
Mary Jo: Arrr.
Leo: Arrr, what are you programming, arrrr.
Mary Jo: No, it is not.
Paul: Nice, but seriously what are you programming?
Leo: Arrr me matey.
Mary Jo: Or if you're from Boston, ahh.
Mary Jo: The Ahh program.
Leo: Ahh program, program an Ahh?
Mary Jo: Yeah.
Paul: Uh, I would not want to be in that room.
Mary Jo: Sorry. Anyway, back to Revolution-
Mary Jo: -Analytics.
Leo: Is the R, the R in Revolution,is that, I mean they're related I would guess.
Mary Jo: I would assume that's why, yep. Yep. They call, their slogan is Revolution R for the Enterprise. So Microsoft's taking the R technology and they're going to build it into a future version of Sequel Server as well as a future version of HD Insight, which everyone knows is dupe, and also Azure Machine Learning. So if you're using any of those products from Microsoft, either on premises in a hybrid configuration or in the cloud, at some point you're going to be able to get directly to R, that distribution of R, because it will be built in. They also though said they're going to keep going with the Open Source things that Revolution was doing before Microsoft bought them. So they're going to continue to support those Open Source projects that Revolution was engaged in and keep their distribution working across Linux, Teradata and Hadoop. So, Microsoft's gonna use this stuff internally but also allow the pieces that were not directly connected to Windows to thrive and grow. There you have it. Arrr.
Mary Jo: Arr.
Leo: Arr is a different implementation of the S language.
Mary Jo: That's helpful isn't it?
Leo: I'm not kidding. S for stats, and then they thought well we'll be one better, we'll do Arr. Speaking of Arrr, Red Stone, I'm gonna guess, the code name Red Stone for the big update next year for Windows 10, I think comes from the Red Stone rocket. Right, wasn't that the rocket system used in Mercury I think? One of the early space...
Paul: Before Mary Jo tells you what it really stands for, we were kinda looking at this together over Skype or whatever and I said, you know it's funny the first result in Google search is what it really is, but if you look at the second result it's Redstone Liquors. Liquors as we would say here in Boston.
Leo: Let's go to Redstone Liquors. I love Redstone Liquors.
Paul: I kinda like to think that's the real reason it's named that.
Leo: I'm Googling it right now and I don't get Redstone Liquors, I think that's a specialized search result-
Paul: Special for Boston.
Leo: -just for Paul Thurrott there.
Mary Jo: I think it is too.
Paul: Redstone Liquors!
Leo: Redstone Liquors. There's Sumner Redstone. He's the chairman of Viacom, or former chairman of Viacom.
Mary Jo: Nope, not that either.
Leo: Not that either. What does the code name Redstone refer to?
Mary Jo: Redstone is something from Mine Craft. Remember Microsoft bought MoJang, the maker of Minecraft?
Leo: Ohh, get ready!
Mary Jo: I know, so just like we were getting our code names from Halo recently, now I guess we're gonna start getting them from Minecraft.
Leo: Oh, so now to the Minecraft Wiki we go.
Mary Jo: Yes, and so the Minecraft Wiki is cool because when you use your cursor with your mouse it turns into a torch or a sword.
Leo: Oh, a sword, yeah!
Mary Jo: Yeah, because Redstone is an element in Minecraft that's used to make Redstone torches, Redstone repeaters, and many other useful things. Although, as I was corrected when I wrote that, by someone that plays Minecraft they said that it's used to create technology not things, not objects.
Leo: Yeah, I'm very sorry, you're mistaken we use it for technology not for....
Mary Jo: I was like, wow, I'm going to have to learn a whole new other set of code names now because now they're going to start using Minecraft code names.
Mary Jo: We need OMG chat on here to start helping us with some code names.
Leo: If you would have asked Michael, my stepson, he would have said “Oh, well of course it's Redstone”. He knows exactly what that is. He would know exactly what that is. As all twelve year olds in the entire United States would.
Paul: Uh, neeerd.
Mary Jo: And the interesting thing about Redstone I'll also point out is if you really dig and go deep into this code name, it's a foundational technology like it's a building block to build other things so if you think about Redstone as a code name it means it's a foundational technology in Windows to build other things, like maybe build hollow lens stuff, like extend Windows to other platforms.
Leo: Ah, but do they do that with code names, do they think that far ahead?
Mary Jo: They think like that.
Leo: They do.
Mary Jo: Yeah, they do. They think through like a significance.
Leo: So it could be a clue to what you might be doing with it.
Mary Jo: Sometimes they just pick a city name or a color or bittersweet shimmer whatever right. But sometimes they do try to make it stand for something.
Leo: I think that the fact that it's a building block for technology in Minecraft probably is something that they were very aware of.
Mary Jo: I do too.
Mary Jo: Yep.
Leo: And finally, we need beer after that. So let's get something hot.
Mary Jo: Yeah. Another thing that begins with R in a way, Rogues Sriracha Stout is the beer pick of the week.
Leo: Hoo-hoo! I love the Rogue labels you know, you spot them online right away so I'm always drawn-
Paul: Sriracha, is that the pepper?
Mary Jo: Yes.
Leo: That's the Hot Red Rooster sauce.
Mary Jo: Yep, you know that hot sauce, Sriracha?
Mary Jo: They take some of that and they put it in the beer and-
Leo: Oh no!
Mary Jo: -I've had other hot beers with hot chili peppers and ghost peppers and all before but this one actually works, I think. If you like Sriracha, you're probably going to like this beer. You drink it and it gives you that little burn in the back of your throat, just a little. Paul's face is just all “No” right now. In every way.
Paul: I am, I mean, I don't know how to say this...
Leo: You're supposed to use beer to cool the heat not....
Paul: I really like and respect Mary Jo and I know that she's a huge beer efficinato and I love that about her, but I just, I don't know what to say.
Mary Jo: Your face was just like “Oh no”, but I was a doubter and I tried it-
Paul: Yeah its just uh, I can feel the burn.
Mary Jo: It definitely gives you the little burn, it doesn't give you the garlicky bit that you usually get with Sriracha but you get the burn, the chili burn kinda thing. And you know what, I asked the guy from Rogue who I met who was pouring it who said it would be really great with a steak-
Leo: Yeah, it would!
Mary Jo: -and I'm like yeah, you know, it probably would!
Leo: It would.
Mary Jo: Uh, I think it would also work with Tofu because it would be like the bland and the spicy kind of thing. No? Okay. That's my pick. Since I don't eat steak.
Leo: There's the selling point. You know this stuff would be a great beer to go with the Tofu.
Paul: Well, arguably anything that has taste would go good with Tofu. You know.
Leo: The more taste the betta. I can't believe you said that Mary Jo!
Mary Jo: I was actually trying to thing what it would pair with, it would pair great with chocolate cake.
Leo: Anything, yeah, anything like that would be good.
Mary Jo: But Tofu, yeah, I think it would if you added kind of a more of a bland tofu dish instead of a spicy I think it would work! Sorry!
Leo: Did you ever put Sriracha on your tofu?
Mary Jo: Yes!
Mary Jo: Yeah!
Leo: So basically you've got to have a cube of Sriracha-
Paul: Yeah, yeah right.
Leo: -Sriracha sub-straight.
Mary Jo: If you like stouts and you like Sriracha give it a whirl.
Mary Jo: It's not for everybody but it's kind of interesting.
Paul: It's quite a qualification there, but, okay..
Leo: I am stout, I don't know if that qualifies me. So that's it for Windows Weekly for this week. A great show with Gabe Aul, go back and rewind if you didn't hear the whole show because it's a good one. You can find Mary Jo at AllaboutMicrosoft.com, Paul's at the new Thurrott.com. T-h-u-r-r-o-t-t. They're both going to be in studio on May Day. Email firstname.lastname@example.org if you want to come here and watch them in Petaluma. They'll also be doing meet ups at both Build and Ignite, so there's lots of places you can say hi to our lovable twosome. The kings of Windows Journalism right here, right now. Aren't they great?! Let's hear it for them! Ahhhhh! Um..
Mary Jo: Srirachhhh
Leo: Srirachhh! Ahhh!
Paul: I can still feel the burning in my throat.
Leo: We do this show every Wednesday at 11 AM Pacific Daylight time, 2 PM Eastern time. 1800UTC. If you want to watch live, just tune in live.twit.tv. After the fact on demand audio and video at twit.tv/ww or youtube.com/ I think it's Windows Weekly. All of our shows have their own YouTube channel now so it makes it easy, you can subscribe to an individual show. You should also subscribe in your Podcast app on your smart phone or your mobile or on I-tunes or in Xbox Music, wherever you get your pod casts because it is THE best show on the planet. That's what the chat room says. Thanks for joining us. Hey, we'll see you next week on Windows Weekly! Goodbye.