Windows Weekly 405 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It´s time for Windows Weekly, Paul Thurrott is here, Mary Jo is still in Vietnam, we´ve got some great pictures from her, Dr. Pizza will be filling in, Peter Bright from ARS Technica, and in the middle of the show the brand new Windows 10 preview pushes, we´ll talk about that and a whole lot more, Windows Weekly is next.

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This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley, Episode 405, recorded Wednesday March 18 2015.

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Leo: It´s time for Windows Weekly, Paul Thurrott is here, Mary Jo is here in spirit, she´s still traveling the world, so we have brought in a ringer. Isn´t that a parasitic infection? I believe it is.

Paul Thurrott: It´s attached to our lower intestines.

Leo: We have brought in a ringer, Mr. Peter Bright ladies and gentlemen, you see him at ARS Technica, you´re still at ARS Technica right?

Peter Bright: I´m still at ARS Technica yep.

Leo: Actually I love your stuff at ARS, and he´s also Dr. Pizza on the twitter. And did you go to WinHec China this week?

Peter: I would be there right now, if I was, no. Seems like a big event

Leo: Seems like we´ll have some revelations, before we get to those, did you guys get your Cortana lunchbox?

Paul: I´ve actually had one of those for a while with a phone in it. What´s inside?

Leo: There was a lovely $49 dollar phone in there.

Paul: There you go.

Leo: And it came with pie on Pi day which is I think pretty cool.

Peter: I could´ve had lunch with someone.

Leo: Well they don´t do it in Britain, that´s a different branch.

Peter: I´m in Houston Texas Leo.

Leo: You have to call Q branch. You´re in Houston? Well that´s very confusing, I don´t think that should be allowed. Here is the, You have a British accent, can you change your accent? And then it says hello, I´m Cortana.

Paul: What´s the phone? Did you get that 435?

Leo: No, I don´t know. It´s really bright yellow, it´s the $50 dollar one, whatever that is.

Paul: 635.

Leo: Yeah, I think that´s what it is. But you know what´s nice about this, unlike my 1520, I can put Windows 10 on it.

Paul: That´s right.

Peter: And you can put it in your pocket because it´s not a plate.

Leo: I don´t know I have big phones, I cannot lie, so I don´t mind. This actually though is pretty cute, it´s 8 gigs of storage, it´s 1 gig of ram, it´s got fm radio it´s the dual sim model. But boy amazing for $49 bucks.

Paul: Yeah

Peter: Yeah, Well if you´re spending your own money and not like getting some big subsidiary of the carrier, you can get these really nice phones for like $150 dollars and they do everything that a smartphone is meant to do, it´s amazing. Compared to like a few years ago when you had to pay seven, eight hundred bucks for worse features.

Leo: It´s going to be interesting, to see what happens at the premium end because to justify $800 dollar phone you´re going to have to do something pretty special. The Motorola E, the second generation is $150, is really great. I mean 8 gigs of storage.

Paul: What´s the Apple one that´s $850 bucks no contract, I can´t remember the name.

Leo: Yeah, It´s called the iPhone 4 I believe.

Paul: Great, enjoy.

Peter: The $700 dollar phone is better, but it´s not like 4 times better or 3 times better, that´s , you know.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: If people are going to spend $17,000 dollars on a wristwatch, a thousand bucks on a phone just doesn´t seem much.

Paul: Are you going to?

Leo: No, But I do buy the, but my iPhone 6 plus was loaded with, that was almost a thousand, $950 dollar phone. Because I don´t want the carrier, if I get another 2 years for every phone I bought, I would now owe Verizon for several centuries of time.

Paul: Yeah, It´ll be like paying back a collage loan.

Leo: Yeah, so I pretty much have to buy them unlocked now, but that´s okay.

Paul: That´s something I intend to write about, I´ve been meaning to look this up because I have 3 lines at At&T, every one of them is listed as you´re clear for an upgrade you know, but at AT&T that means different things because they´ll give you one of those next upgrades any time you want. Yeah I got to look this up, one of my goals this year is to remove myself from the kind of teet you know of subsidized phones on AT&T. I really, really got to get on this program.

Leo: I think that the whole subsidy thing has changed, don´t you know, maybe I´m wrong, but haven´t the carriers effectively moved you to merely amortizing the real price across it 2 years.

Paul: It´s an option. You can still go full blown subsidy if you wanted to.

Leo: But notice everybody´s doing the next thing and they really kind of, you can easily fall into that without knowing it.

Paul: Oh yeah, very easily, and that´s what I mean, in other words, when I look at the AT&T app on my phone it says, hey you qualify for an upgrade, no, I don´t.

Leo: You know that phone you bought 3 months ago? Hey you can get a new one, for a price.

Paul: Interesting, yeah. I paid off my iPhone 6 plus recently as part of this initiative. That is not an inexpensive device by the way. I´ve bought, most of the laptops I´ve bought cost less than an iPhone 6 plus.

Leo: It´s pretty amazing.

Paul: It´s astonishing. And now you get into that weird thing where like you´ve got this really expensive thing that´s like as slippery as a bar of soap and you´re afraid to take it anywhere, because now you have paid for it you know. And I´m scared to death I´m going to like Chevy Chase it on the stairs or something.

Peter: You´re going to what?

Leo: Chevy Chase it. I know, that´s right you live in Houston, you don´t know American references. It´s when, it´s on Saturday Night Live, in 1975, Paul´s really kind of dating himself here. Chevy Chase would play, you may remember a president of the United States from your history class, his name is Gerald Ford, and at the beginning of every Saturday Night Live, back in the mid 70´s, Paul? I don´t know if you really remember?

Paul: I do remember this actually, here´s what I remember about it. Gerald Ford was our most athletic president ever, but he´d stumble repeatedly as if he were some stumbling buffoon, you know.

Leo: Right, right. He did fall a few times.

Paul: Yeah, he did slip down the stairs.

Leo: He never was attacked by a rabbit, to his credit.

Paul: He played a weird, blond woman.

Leo: Okay, you know I´m listening to a book about The Beatles, it´s really good, tune in, it´s an Audible book, tune in it´s the first of 3, All These Years, a definitive biography of The Beatles. And the narrator, who is a brit, repeatedly calls Houston, Hooston.

Paul: Oh, that stuff!

Leo: Peter did you know that it was Houston when you moved there?

Peter: Yeah I did.

Leo: Okay, at least he doesn´t call it Houseton.

Peter: Because there is Houseton.

Leo: there is a Houseton.

Peter: There´s like Houseton Street or whatever.

Leo: In New York, Soho is south of Houseton.

Paul: One of the recent technology books keeps referring to iOS as IOS, in the audible version.

Leo: Yeah, when they read it.

Paul: Which is infuriating.

Leo: Don´t they have?

Peter: And yet, OXX

Leo: I hate that too. Don´t they have producers who were supposed to look it up.

Paul: Everyone knows it´s OSIX, I don´t understand.

Leo It´s OSIX compliant.

Paul: Where do these things come from?

Leo: So Mary Jo is not with us but she´s, I mistakenly played candle in the wind at the beginning of the show for her, she is apparently still with us.

Paul: We´re triggering an outpouring of briefs on Twitter.

Leo: I´m so sorry Mary Jo, I hope she´ll take that in the spirit in which it was intended. She is in Ha Long Bay aka paradise. Another Sway from Mary Jo Foley. Oh this looks beautiful, wow, look at that. She´s really become a Sway master.

Paul: I know.

Leo: Look at this stuff, there she is on a boat, she has a boat, cruising around the bay. Am I doing it right? I´m doing it with the arrow keys, is that okay?

Paul: Yeah, I think that´s fine.

Leo: The side trips, so where´s the little thing, the little white bar that gets bigger there? Maybe that´s  just that it´s loading. A loading bar.

Paul: I think that´s just a little graphical element.

Leo: Spelunking in caves, there´s people who live out here, this is Vietnam right? Look at this! I want to go now. Oh my golly! Look at the food, how long was she on this journey?

Paul: The whole trip is 2 and a half weeks or whatever.

Leo: Looks like a little bit of a heart of darkness going on here.

Paul: I know.

Leo: Wonder if she water skied behind the boat. Love the smell of Ha Long Bay in the morning. Wow, good for you Mary Jo. She´s getting on a plane this time next week? And will be back, not next week? So she´s getting on a plane now?

Paul: She´ll be back next week. She´ll be home tomorrow. She could be on the plane right now, based on how long it takes to fly, I don´t know, well she´ll be home tomorrow.

Leo: We got to thank her for these because travel pictures are pretty amazing, and it really is a neat opportunity to see a little bit of her trip.

Paul: I was showing these to my wife, and my wife who is not technical and doesn´t care about technology said, you know, I like this thing so much more than what people do on Facebook which is just dump of photos, with no context whatsoever. Whereas this kind of thing is like a little story and it explains, she can explain what each thing is and it´s nice.

Leo: It´s really cool, and it´s not like Powerpoint, to do a Powerpoint presentation for your friends, I mean you could do many of the same things, it would be kind of weird.

Peter: Your friends would tell you, if you did a Powerpoint.

Peter: Specially if you put them in those slide carrousel form.

Leo: We used to do that, I´m old enough to remember, you know, Kodak carrousel projectors, and when you´d come back from a trip you´d have hundreds of slides, you´d put them in a carrousel, you´d turn off the lights.

Peter: You´d share them with everyone and torture them.

Leo: You would! You´d bore people to the death, yeah. This way they can be tortured in the privacy of their own home.

Paul: Exactly. It´s so much more convenient.

Leo: Well you can wiz through them, you don´t have to. This is great. This is free? Do you have to have an Office 365 subscription? It´s pretty sweet. Very nice, thank you Mary Jo for sharing those with us. So, we buried the lead here. It was all over the tech news this morning and I want to get your take on it. Speaking at WinHec in I believe China, right?

Paul: Yep.

Leo: A Microsoft representative said that Windows 10 will be available this summer?

Paul: Right, which caused me to Google this summer to find out what the exact date range was, yeah and it´s June 21 to September 23, so there´s your window.

Leo: Could be September huh?

Paul: I would lean toward the end of the schedule, yeah.

Peter: The solstice to the equinox that´s how long they have.

Leo: There you go, that´s why we bring in people from Houston on this show.

Paul: I was going to say, I like how that clarifies the dates in your mind.

Leo: Oh! The solstice to the equinox! Now! I wish Microsoft didn´t ask that. Sometime between summer solstice and autumnal equinox we will release Windows 10. If they came up on stage and said that, you know.

Paul: When the cock, you know, crows thrice, before the morning, Windows 10 will be done.

Leo: So this is Terry Myerson who I guess would know right? Isn´t he in charge of the whole thing?

Paul: Yeah, I think we could, yeah.

Leo: He was speaking at WinHec in Shenzhen China, announced that Windows 10 this is the exact quote, will be available this summer in 190 countries and 111 languages. He does preface the sentencing we continue to make great development progress, do you think that´s implying that there may be a, it´s faster than they thought or no?

Paul: Wow. Leo that´s a surprisingly loaded question. The problem with Windows 10 to date, has been that you know, we haven´t seen too many builds externally right? And, um, last week they pledged to fix that and deliver builds more quickly, and so I guess what I would say is that they, if they´d made great progress, we just haven´t seen it yet externally, so, we´ve seen a leak build, a couple of leak builds here and there, and so we´ll see. There´s a bunch of stuff going out with Windows 10 right? It´s Windows 10 for desktops, for tablets, for small tablets and phones, iOS, embedded devices and Xbox 10, hello, and Xbox One. You know there´s a lot of parts to it.

Leo: So that doesn´t mean it would be out for every platform, I presume when they say that.

Peter: But remember this is different, this is not the same Windows as we´ve had before, they´ve already said that like, there´ll be like featured updates after the release. So you know finished isn´t quite as final as it was in the olden days. It´ll work.

Leo: Oh, that´s interesting. Will you want to upgrade to it?

Paul: Well actually, that was an interesting thing. I can´t find the article right now but, one of the things I went through in one of the slide decks from WinHec, and there were about 1197 of them so it took a while to get through them. Microsoft differentiates between upgrading and updating right? In the Windows 10 world, what you do is you upgrade from a previous version of Windows to Windows 10, but once you have Windows 10 what you´re doing is updating which is what Peter was just replying, um, talking about, which is you add features you add bug fixes obviously and things like that but, they´re almost implying that there won´t be any more upgrading after this, we´re just going to keep updating now. That kind of servicing model changes with Windows 10. And so we´ll see how true that it.

Leo: Uh huh.

Peter: Yeah, it depends how loudly enterprises kick and scream. Normally quite loudly I think.

Paul: And wireless carriers too for whatever that´s worth. There´s a lot of screaming to the idea.

Peter: Oh, yeah.

Leo: Well and the other thing that was interesting, of course they still have that free upgrade for Windows 7 and up users for a year. Did I, somebody I read not the direct quote but the interpretation that perhaps it would be available to pirated versions.

Paul: Oh there is a direct quote, Terry Myerson said we are upgrading all qualified PCs including genuine and non-genuine to Windows 10.

Leo: So by qualified he merely means hardware capable.

Peter: And with Windows 7 an up.

Leo: Right. If it´s pirated you could just, oh hey, let me borrow Windows 7 from you and then I´ll upgrade and so.

Paul: No, no, if it´s pirated, if you have a pirated OS and it´s Windows 7, Windows 8, you get Windows 10 for free.

Leo: Yeah, so if you´ve pirated Windows XP you might as well pirate Windows 7 for the free upgrade, that really means for anybody.

Paul: Oh, I see what you´re saying. Those guys really aren´t supported Leo. It doesn´t matter if it´s pirated or not.

Leo: But to say Windows 7 and up implies that we´re going to check to make sure that you have a genuine copy of Windows 7 before we allow you to have a free upgrade and they´re not obviously. So that means anybody who can run it, and that ´s the real criteria.

Peter: The difference is just if you´re on XP you´ll have to more or less blow away your machine to put your pirate Windows 7 on, or if you have Windows 7 it´ll be a nice upgrade.

Leo: Ah, ok. So pirates do pay.

Paul: We knew we´ve get them in the end. Not much of a punishment.

Leo: The pirates will be paying, you will be wiping out your drive and installing Windows 7 you pirate you! Man that´s a punishment!

Paul: I think, honestly I think this notion of giving pirates Windows 10 is awesome, I mean get them on board.

Leo: It´s telling these, he did it in China where it´s massively pirated right?

Paul: Yep, I don´t believe it´s not, ever not pirated in China.

Leo: But the statement applies to anybody. I think that´s great.

Peter: But my assumption is that the OEMs are getting better, because OEMs are still going to be paying Microsoft something, like it may not be as much as it used to be, so it´s really only the upgrade copies they´re getting rid of. If you buy a new PC with Windows 10 on it, the OEM is still paid half.

Leo: And that´s why it´s not as big a deal, a hit to the financial bottom-line as one might think, yet by expanding it to pirated copies I think it might become a bigger part because.

Paul: I don´t see it as a money thing, I see it as more of a legitimate desire to get everyone updated to the latest code, the latest servicing model, the latest services. You know it´s really about moving everyone forward because you have this kind of fragmentation thing that occurs in Windows where different OS versions, it´s not a problem for application compatibility.

Peter: Like even application developers for the longest time making sure that apps would still run on Windows XP, which meant that they had to update the new features that Vista and 7 and 8 added new features and developers didn´t use them because they wanted to run on XP, and that should start going away.

Paul: Yeah, and then this should also help drive universal apps because now we have this broader audience of people that are actually running that system. I think it´s like a net win overall it doesn´t have to be a direct revenue thing.

Leo: Yeah, it´s good I´m not complaining. It´s kind of like when the music industry allowed Apple to do iTunes match which basically sucked up all the pirated music from all times and legitimized it, it was kind of a one-time $25 dollar hit and now all the Napster stuff I downloaded is legitimate.

Paul: Right.

Leo: Did I say that?

Paul: I mean I´m agreeing that your Napster stuff is legitimate.

Leo: Somebody´s, not ours.

Paul: I know you probably purchased that in the process of reporting.

Leo: I´ve bought every one of those songs about a dozen times, the music industry believe me got their fair share.

Paul: I should be allowed free into every star wars movie that´s ever made based on the number of times I´ve bought the original trilogy in various formats.

Leo: They are, you know they are talking about, they do do this, or are about to do this with certain movies, you can buy a premium ticket that allows you to see it forever as many times as you want.

Paul: Yeah, like a lifetime pass.

Leo: Lifetime pass. That is brilliant. It´like $49 bucks instead of $10 bucks.

Paul: Yeah, I should be granted into that.

Leo: You should be able. And I think they should do that for Windows too. You bought it 5 times, go ahead, have it forever.

Paul: Yeah you win, enjoy.

Leo: How many times have you bought the Beatles albums? You know go ahead, help yourself. There´s a bin of them over there just for you. No I admire Microsoft for doing this, I think this is exactly the right thing to do, they kind of telegraph they´re doing this by giving away Windows in the first place, that they wanted to get everybody up to 10 as fast as possible, and that´s good for everybody, it´s good for the ecosystem, it reassures people who were a little bit worried that Windows 8 was not good. I heard from friends and so forth oh don´t get Windows 8, I think this is great. I can see the battle in the boardroom though right? You´re going to be giving up how much money? I mean they had to explain it right? Just give away, especially for pirated copies.

Peter: I think it´s not as much as you may seem because those pirates would probably never pay for it. They´d either stick on their old version of Windows which is crap for the AP ecosystem or they´ll just pirate Windows 10. You know there probably wasn´t much revenue to be had from these guys.

Leo: Yeah, and I think that´s exactly what Apple told the music industry, look you´re getting something, better than nothing.

Paul: Otherwise you’re just not getting.

Leo: You´re never going to get anything. And you have all these benefits, developers will pay attention and say oh goodness, this is going to be, a lot of people are going to be using Windows 10, let´s just do a universal app and call it a day.

Peter: Yeah.

Leo: Well I´m glad we´re all on agreement. Nice job Terry Myerson.

Paul: The other thing that kind of came out today to regards with WinHec and Windows 10 and everything was this kind of upgrade matrix you know, one of the questions when they announced free Windows 10 upgrade was, well how does that work? In other words, I´m running Windows 7, cool, with service pack one, so I  can do an upgrade that gives me Windows 10 that´s neat. And now it´s 6 months later, or 10 months later or whatever and I want to reinstall the OS, like how do I get that thing back? Do I have to reinstall Windows 7 with the restore partition? And then reupgrade? I mean can I just install Windows 10? How does that work?

Peter: I think they´ve given hints, they haven´t answered that.

Paul: That´s what I mean, it´s not 100% but a little more detailed.

Peter: They said that you´ll be able to make some sort of recovery media to reinstall.

Paul: Yeah and this matrix kind of suggests that it´ll be like an ISO. I´m just curious you know, I wonder, I wonder how they´ll do it exactly. Will you plug in your Microsoft account, get a product key that is this pc only, this Microsoft account only, you know, I would imagine something like that.

Peter: yeah, because the things they used to do like putting in 2 product keys, one for the upgrade and one for the old version of it, you can´t do if the old version is pirated.

Paul: You know there are a lot of instances specially in Windows 7, where you can´t get that thing back, it´s just gone.

Leo: Right. Well there are programs that will do it.

Paul: Well, there are really instances where you can´t.

Leo: Really? It´s like gone forever.

Paul: Yeah and I just end up of course doing my clean pc, I realized you can really, you could like wipe out a pc and you´d be on eBay looking for a copy of Windows 7 basically at some point. So this seems like a fresh start for everybody. I think, I like the way, well everyone except for Windows RT but you know Windows pc users seems like a nice fresh start for just about everybody, including pirates.

Leo: Arr, I´m happy about that Paulie. Good news. Is that why you´re growing out the mutton chops? You want to look the part?

Paul: He just decided he wasn´t going to shave until he got another build.

Leo: Hey another build any day now? No. Somebody´s saying that in the chatroom when we started, we haven´t had a build in years, months.

Peter: Yeah.

Leo: So I´m sitting here, I got the new, what is it? You said it was  a 635 or something.

Paul: I think it´s a 635 based on how it looks yeah.

Leo: And of course I got to enter my Microsoft account log in which is great because I enter that and everything else kind of goes… and I foolishly in the past made a long, secure, totally random, and I am so sick of typing this thing in.

Peter: Yeah.

Paul: So just do Two Factor and give yourself a shorter password.

Leo: I did do Two factor, I guess could then the password doesn´t have to be that good. I have the new Two Factor where it just sends me a text message and then I say yes I do authorize that, is that a good idea?

Paul: That´s my favorite way to do it.

Leo: I like that, yeah.

Paul: Yeah because otherwise you have to erase the clock. You got the 2 devices, the thinks like, it´s got the code but you know the things move across, and just because the thing´s moving across you´re suddenly, you´re a little nervous.

Leo: Paul keeps changing the subject so we have to stop and do that, and then I lost my, then I have to start over and that´s about the fourth time.

Paul: 64897, no dammit! You know, and then it resets.

Peter: The Android authenticator app is the best one.

Leo: You know I´ve been using Authy, do they have Authy for? Oh, the Microsoft one, yeah.

Peter: You just get the notification, in the notification area you can just say accept.

Leo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That´s what we were talking about, I love this, yeah, yeah.

Paul: Why this is not on Windows Phone we don´t know.

Leo: Well it´s not going to do this on my Windows? Great.

Peter: I mean the Windows Phone is like still, it´s standard, so I use the app for Google.

Paul: It just generates codes.

Leo: So it doesn´t break that one, I can still use the 6 digit authentication? Oh good.

Paul: Look at the Android version, the Microsoft kind app which is what he was talking about, I think you can only do one account though, like the Microsoft authenticator app you can have multiple Microsoft accounts, you can have Google accounts, you can have drop box, you know whatever, whatever supports it.

Leo: Well I signed up for it immediately and I´ve been using it and I like it. Yep it wants my password again, gosh, darn it.

Paul: Actually you know if you´re setting up a new, if you´re setting up the phone you might want to try an app password.

Leo: Instead? The phone understands it. Well that´s the other thing with Two Factor authentication, and this is true for Google as well that when you´re in a mobile environment not all apps understand Two Factor so you have to go back, Twitter does this too. You have to go back and generate an application secure password, which frankly I think is a less secure solution.

Paul: Sure.

Leo: But, anyway. And then you´ll never know which it´ll do so you enter your password and then it says no, that´s not your password and you go yes it is.

Paul: I think it´s just a way to out apps that are out of date.

Leo: Yeah, because most of them are now coming long and doing it. So what is this Hello Windows? Hello, is that what we´re talking about?

Peter: Hello, is it me you´re looking for?

Leo: Hello. have you ever seen the Lionel Ritchie missing poster for the tree?

Peter: Yes.

Leo: Let me see if I can find it, just so you can see it.

Paul: Is this from the video? It´s like a spoof of the Lionel Ritchie video.

Leo: I think it´s kind of, well, what would you say Peter? Kind os from the.

Peter: It´s a spoof of those flyers you see with the tear off tags.

Leo: Here I´ll show you real quickly because I found a downloadable pdf so I can put this.

Paul: Ha, ha, ha, that´s good.

Leo: And the tags that you can pull off, I can see it in your eyes, I can see it in your smile, you´re all I ever wanted and my arms are open wide. I´m printing this up, I think this should be, this should be on our printer right now. Hello, is it me then I´m just going to put this around the studio.

Paul: Yep, that´s good.

Leo: I´m sorry. I think that was a distraction was that? I think legitimately I´ve derailed the conversation. So, Hello is a Microsoft password, I was trying desperately but none of you would pick up the hint.

Paul: I missed my opportunity to use the headline, Microsoft gives passwords the finger.

Leo: Oh, I like it. Okay Yahoo announced, this isn´t the same thing I hope. Yahoo announced that you don´t have to have a password anymore for yahoo mail, they´ll just text it to you. So you go to your yahoo account, you say, hey I´m Leo Laporte wink, wink, nudge, nudge, would you text me my password? And they´ll text it to me of course text messages are notoriously insecure, so. Pretty much there goes your Yahoo password.

Peter: Even if I´d stolen your phone.

Leo: Well, you can, no, I mean, for instance law enforcement can easily get your text messages, I dont even think they need.

Peter: Law enforcement can also like shoot you and break your kneecaps.

Leo: That´s true so that would be more of a detriment.

Paul: This is further down the list of things they may do to you that are bad.

Leo: Excellent point, I´ll stop worrying about law enforcement but hackers too can easily intercept SMS I think, maybe not, maybe I´m wrong. Yes, no. Some guy in the studio today is nodding vigorously, so I don´t know what to think about that.

Peter: All of these are trying to be better than just like some really crummy passwords that you use.

Leo: Well that´s the idea, monkey123 is worse than. Well what is Microsoft suggesting?

Peter: Well, um, so there´s 2 things. There´s Hello and then there´s a resurrection of the passport.

Leo: Oh no, the one single sign on?

Peter: Yeah it´s not that but it´s the same name.

Leo: Oh, good.

Peter: So Hello you'll be able to, it´s a biometric framework for logging into Windows. It´ll support fingerprints, facial recognition and iris recognition.

Leo: Wow.

Peter: So, if it´s using the facial recognition you´ll just be able to sit down at your Windows PC and it will unlock, connect style sort of instant automatic unlocking.

Leo: And that´s through having a camera that just says.

Peter: So yeah, it needs special webcams, Dell has one, what is it?

Leo: But why does it need a special?

Peter: So the special Intel webcam has an infrared light in it and an infrared camera in it.

Leo: I know why, so they can tell you´re not holding up a picture of somebody.

Peter: Right, yep. Exactly that. So a regular webcam won´t work.

Leo: So the infrared tells, can see if there´s flesh, that there´s a beating heart behind this picture.

Peter: So there aren´t too many of those, I mean there are quite a lot of laptops out there with fingerprint readers and from what I can tell, they should all work. Or most of them should work.

Leo: I can tell you from using the iPhone for a while now, the touch Id is such a boom, actually my Galaxy note 4 does it too, when apps accept that instead, it´s huge. It´s like, oh thank you, I donut have to enter in a password.

Peter: Yep.

Leo: And there are apps now, if you have a Chrome book, Android 5, oh now I forgot my password again, okay just.

Paul: Wow.

Peter: Are you my father?

Leo: Well the problem is they only show dots, I don´t know where I left off.

Paul: Oh Leo.

Leo: 20 characters in and I don´t know where I am.

Paul: Here´s my recommendation, change the password.

Leo: To something really easy.

Peter: Password 123 is good, try that.

Leo: And then, but I have Two Factor so I´m safe.

Paul: That´s the theory.

Leo: Waiting for verification, Oh now it´s waiting for verification because I have turned on that thing and now I get my Android phone, it´s a little weird to verify a Microsoft sign on with an Android phone but, hey.

Paul: We´re all facing this brave new world with some trepidation.

Leo: Oh it didn´t do it, where else would it have sent it?

Paul: So, it sends it wherever your default authenticator app is.

Leo: Of course there is another problem because I probably don´t have.

Paul: There are secondary ways to get the code, does it give you the option to just get a text message?

Leo: Having trouble? Enter a security code. Okay so now I can do the authenticator, good alright. Because I don´t think this text that just came in that says cool, I don´t think that´s from Microsoft.

Paul: You never know.

Leo: It could be. Cool. Cool you did it. Congratulations. Cool. You´re authenticated dude. Welcome. Alright now I, now this phone will start sucking down all my contacts and everything. I do like that. So on a Chrome book if you have Android 5, getting in proximity they use Bluetooth I think Elite, will unlock the Chrome book, there are some 3rd party solutions for Apple using touch Id with an iOS device and a Macintosh, but I think this, it needs to be built into the OS.

Paul: I agree.

Leo: Otherwise I feel like it´s probably, you know, sketch. So is that Hello?

Peter: Yeah, Hello is logging into Windows, Passport is pretty much generalizing in that for everything that isn´t Windows, so you know, it´s like an API for developers to plumb into. So I guess similar to the touch Id on the iPhone, where you know apps can use it to unlock, they´ll suddenly be able to use the face or the iris or the fingerprint.

Leo: How close are affordable iris scanners?

Peter: Um, that´s a good question, the announcement implied that like a webcam can do it as long as it´s one of these fancy webcams

Leo: Wouldn´t that be cool?

Paul: It needs like a special IR component to it.

Paul: So I don´t feel that I have to get close to it or if it´s just like.

Leo: Yeah because that´s a little ungainly to have to go all the way up to your computer.

Paul: Yeah, the demo they have must be a facial recognition.

Leo: Mobile it works great, with mobile it would be great, you just go like that. I´d love that, although, that´s because I´m presuming iris is more accurate than fingerprint, I don´t even know if it is.

Peter I think irises are probably harder to steal because you leave your fingerprints everywhere, you don´t tend to leave eyeball prints everywhere.

Paul: If someone does steal your eyeball you have bigger problems than you know, your password being stolen.

Peter: The downside is I´d rather have someone cut off my finger than gauge my eye out of my skull.

Leo: But again that´s what´s the beauty of this because it does have the infrared scanner, it will not work with a detached eyeball or thumbprint unless.

Paul: I´ll be sure to alert the thief of that fact.

Leo: Well you do, you say don´t cut it off because it won´t work.

Peter: Give me my damn eyeball back.

Leo: Yeah, don´t take it out, just hold my head up to the iris scanner.

Peter: Yeah, I mean smack me around a little but don´t.

Leo: Don´t cut it out.

Paul: Nobody benefits from that. That´s what it´s like to be a Windows user Leo.

Peter: Talk about people stealing your eyeballs, um, the other side is there´s this Fido thing for like logging into websites, Microsoft has joined the Fido group.

Leo: That´s I think a Google initiative initially but I think it´s now widespread.

Peter: And contributed like stuff for Fido 2.0, so I think at some point if you have websites that use Fido log ins, they´ll again be able to leverage the fingerprint.

Leo: Peter?

Paul: He´s coming for your eyes!

Leo: He´s in the room Peter.

Peter: Someone´s here to steal my damn eyeball. Yeah so, in theory those website will be able to use your fingerprint, face or eyeball recognition. Spartan and all these other things I´m sure.

Paul: Yep, and Passport works with all the Microsoft services as you would expect. You kind of get that today, if you go to onedrive.com or Xbox music or whatever, in internet explorer and you´ve logged in with your Microsoft account you just go right in.

Peter: Yeah, it´s magical.

Leo: I´ve used face recognition on Android devices. I think Samsung did that a few years ago. It´s not good, it´s terrible!

Paul: Yeah because the consumer stuff is not very good right now.

Leo: Because you have to be in a similar light, if you´re wearing glasses, oh I don´t know who you are.

Peter: That is actually another one of the things that the IR can do, because it illuminates with its own IR light, it´s actually pretty resilient to changing light conditions and things like that, so it makes it more reliable as well as I think more accurate.

Paul: Sometimes I feel like, especially on Twitter, that people don´t get me, so, I made the joke yesterday that identical twin walks up to brothers computer, signs in as him with this technology and steals his identity, and then you get a lot of people who are really serious writing you back, well identical twins aren´t technically identical Paul, or you know whatever, and it´s like, guys, seriously, I´m just, you know, relax.

Leo: If you really don´t trust your identical twin brother than.

Paul: You know one of them is evil. I mean, this is.

Leo: He´s the bad seed, that one. It´s my remembrance that biome, face scans do things like geometry and distance between pupils and the mouth and, it´s actually, the connect is very accurate in the Xbox One, with one exception, for some reason, when I sit down, it knows it´s me, when Michael my stepson comes in, he sits down it knows it´s him except he looks a lot like his mom apparently because when his mom comes in, it says hello Michael, every time. So, but that´s Connect. Maybe this will be better, I hope.

Paul: Connect, the bastard stepchild of optical recognition.

Leo: But it´s using infrared isn´t it? Is it not? Maybe not.

Peter: Yes, it is.

Leo: Infrared, as opposed to infored.

Paul: Yes.

Leo: Okay good, I´m excited about Hello, and Passport, I´m sorry, did I miss what that is?

Peter: Passport is an API the body desk can use it in the same way.

Leo: It´s just how you would include it, alright let´s take a.

Peter: Oh sorry I was going to say, the problem with so many Windows things is OEMs have to like do their bit and I hope they will.

Leo: Well that´s sensible because if you, if you´re Winbook is selling a $60 dollar tablet, I think the owners should not be included iris recognition on it, right?

Peter: Yeah, but I´m hoping, because one of the pictures they showed shows using Hello to unlock a phone.

Leo: That makes so much sense.

Peter: So I´m hoping the mythical Lumia flagship phone will have fingerprint or iris or something.

Paul: Alright, I´m sorry to interrupt this discussion but it´s 3 o´clock, that means, 3 o´clock here in the East Coast, Microsoft is now releasing a new build of Windows 10.

Leo: You´re kidding!

Peter: Yep.

Paul: I´m not kidding.

Leo: Can you now download it right now?

Paul: You can now download it.

Leo: No, can you now download it right now?

Paul: Well I´m on the podcast, I can´t download it now,

Leo: Thank you!

Paul: Oh I see what you´re asking.

Leo: All of a sudden Skype goes flat line.

Paul: No, I´m not an idiot, well, I´m not going to be this one.

Leo: I have done similar things, you remember, I installed an update in the middle of the show, rebooted the computer.

Paul: Yes, like don´t press the.

Leo: Yeah well, we´ll be back in 20 minutes.

Peter: 10,041 I think.

Leo: So this is great, celebrate good times, hey Cortana.

Paul: Hey Cortana.

Leo: Hey Cortana. So good, a new build, how long has it been? It´s been a while.

Paul: 55 days, not that I´m counting.

Leo: 55 days, 3 hours, 4 minutes.

Paul: It´s been a while.

Peter: Yeah, I´m still showing no update available so.

Leo: Stop everybody, do not, you want to watch the show, then download, it´ll keep. Actually, you know what, can you download it in 1 minute?

Peter: No.

Leo: Because I´m going to do a commercial right now to let you do that. I´ll do 2 minutes. Will that be enough? Do I hear 3?

Paul: No, I don´t think so.

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Leo: Peter Bright is filling in this week for Mary Jo Foley, she´ll be back next week. Paul Thurrott is also here from Thurrott.com, how´s that going? With the new website.

Paul: It´s going great.

Leo: You like it? Is it, you got a better CMS?

Paul: Yeah, I´m on Wordpress, maybe you´ve heard of it.

Leo: Nice! Well the nice thing about Wordpress is you can use things like Livereg, Microsoft doesn´t do Livereg anymore but you can use tools that don´t mean, it just makes it so much better. Do they still do writer, that blogging platform?

Paul: I don´t use it, I´m not sure.

Leo: I used to use it, I loved it.

Paul: Oh, I did too, yeah, I´m sure, and the web stuff´s good now, really better. I work, it´s a smaller team of people and they respond quickly and everything goes great and the site is great and the traffic is good.

Leo: Well and you´ve already filed a story. Did you file while I did that ad?

Paul: No, ha, ha, ha.

Leo: That´s impressive Paul. A thousand word story on the new Windows 10 update and all within the time of an ad. You had people? You pushed publish. Do you have people?

Paul: No, I have no people. I need people. I like people. I´m a people person.

Leo: He´s a people pleaser. Alright, OS compression. We´d heard this, that Windows 10 did some compression and I have to say, remember what was it? Stacker? It brought up some bad memories. We´re not talking that.

Paul: Peter do you understand Winboot? Is this is a topic that you get? Can you explain this briefly because this is sort of an enhancement to Winboot is how I understand.

Peter: Yeah, kind of, so, as we all know, I´m sure, Windows 8.1 update changed the disk requirement I think 16 gigs is now the minimum down from 32 gigs. And the problem on 16 gigs is when you have the operating system and the recovery partition at the same time which means traditionally that you´re storing everything twice, one copy for recovery, one copy for using, you don´t have a whole lot of disk space left on your 16 gig system. So they, all the details, I don´t think they´ve fully explained but it sounds like on this 16 gig Winboot machines you still have your recovery partition with the recovery image, and on the operating system partition, you know the actual one that runs and that you use, it just does a bunch of pointers that point into the recovery partition. So you don´t need to store all the files twice, you just have them on recovery and a bunch of pointers somehow they change Windows so that it, it understands these pointers and treats them like they´re the regular file. So it can save a ton of disk space. And it´s actually quite a neat solution but they´ve decided that they don´t want to use it anymore in Windows 10 because it was complicated, you couldn´t like use the regular Windows installer to create this, you needed special tooling to do it. And so it was a pain for the OEMs, so that´s what Windows 10 is doing so my understanding is that Windows 10 actually uses the same process that Windows Phone pretty much uses, although all printing system file are in the working operating system, you know, partition, there´s no separate recovery partition, and when you do a refresh or a reset it´ll just blow away everything that doesn´t belong to the operating system and put back a default registry and so it just recovers to the same files that were already there.

Leo: Is that the behavior you like? You want?

Paul: There are pluses and minuses.

Peter: Yeah, so recovery should be quicker, instead of having to copy all the files from the image back to the working partition, they´re already there, it just has to delete everything that doesn´t like, and the other one and this is actually quite a big win, it means if you do a reset, you won't need to install all the security patches again, because the big problem with the recovery partitions is that nothing touches them. Every time you patch Windows, the recovery partition is left as is, so, you do your system reset and it recovers to the base operating system and all of a sudden you´re totally insecure because you´re running potentially.

Leo: Oh yeah. It´s a pain in the butt. It took me 4 days because I had to reboot, reboot, wait.

Peter: Like if you have a Windows 7 PC right now and you do a reset on that, you know, you could be going back to 2009.

Paul: Yep, you´re talking hours and hours and hours of painful, painful updates.

Peter: And so, on the new system because it should be using the operating system files that have already been updated and patched, and kept up to date. It should be much quicker, and more secure in fact to do a system reset. The downside is I think, to me it feels a little bit more fragile. 4Chan´s favorite advice has always been delete system 32, if you got any pc problem delete system 32.

Leo: Well then you can´t boot.

Paul: Well but then you also can´t recover because the files you need have been deleted.

Peter: In deleting system 32 these days is a whole lot harder than it used to be. It used to be, like in the Windows XP era I think you could just be like the administrator and you could quite easily delete system 32. Um, you can´t do that now, even as an administrator it won´t let you just delete system 32, but if you´re like a virus and you´ve like infected or whatever nasty stuff viruses can do, yeah you can delete system 32 all day long.

Paul: It´s not just the fiery stuff, what if you have some kind of corruption or it could just be a mistake.

Peter: Exactly, right, it could just be on this corruption or you know.

Leo: I´m also worried though about malware infecting these.

Paul: And then you keep getting the malware infected version.

Leo: You´re restoring not only the updates but malware.

Paul: Sure, so you can create recovery, you know, disks.

Leo: Yeah but we know nobody does that, except people listening to the show.

Peter: Right, they don´t. And, so, you know what I would really like from Microsoft is what Apple does, where, um, I mean Apple has advantages because they own the phone ware the system basically they have a small store that´s like a few hundred megs and it would just grab the operating system from the internet.

Leo: Right, it pulls it from the cloud. Now, what it pulls though is the version that your computer came with. So it isn´t exactly, it´s kind of.

Peter: It´s a little harder for Microsoft to do because they still need drivers, network cards and things like that which you know Apple has easy and Microsoft doesn´t. But with Windows 10, sort of, kind of being free now, you would think that this is actually something that they could do, you know, worst case you have to enter a product key.

Paul: Well what does Windows update do anyways? It examines your system, you know part of the deal of Windows update is that it´ll give you driver updates that are specific to your system, there´s no reason this can´t be built into this. Windows update could be something that runs in a recovery form.

Peter: Let´s say some sort of minimal 1 gig Windows thing USB key that will have enough.

Paul: Yeah, generic, what you need is a generic video driver and generic network driver and get on line, get Windows update going, yeah, exactly. We´ve all done this, you know, install Windows.

Peter: And I would really like to see them do this because it´s such a great solution. You know it´s not perfect, like the recovery partition´s still got nice features like it´s really quick compared to tracking stuff down on the internet which can be a little bit slow, but yeah, I really

Paul: At least as an option it should be there, that´s the point. Nine times out of ten or more you´re not even going to need the thing that you´re describing, it´s just nice to have it if you need it. You know, you´ll run it over night, I mean who cares? It´s better than not having it. The only issue I have with all this stuff is that, um, the benefit of getting Windows on a 16 gig device is not much of a benefit for people, it´s a benefit for pc makers unless they sell really cheap devices, you know. In some ways I sort of think well, why do you sell a 32 Gig device that you´re advertising as a 24 Gig device and you know, just have that beyond the disk and you never see it never can touch it and it´s just there and you never have to worry about it. We´re talking about a very small difference in price here I would think for these components but.

Leo: But when you buy the $69 dollar WinBook and it has a 16 gigs.

Peter: Every penny counts.

Leo: Yeah, and it has 16 gigs.

Peter : Even on like your 32 gig machine this new system should give you more disk space.

Paul: Oh it does, it absolutely does.

Peter: There´s still an upside to it, you don´t have the recovery partition and there´s the second thing which is the compression.

Paul: It´s like saying, hey look if you take your seatbelt off when you´re driving the car, the car is going to go a little faster. You now, okay. Most of the time that´s going to work out great, but I don´t know, I just worry about the recovery stuff, I mean obviously if you read technical websites like the ones we have people will explain you know, how to fix this problem but the people reading this don´t have to worry, they know how to fix these problems, it´s my mother, it´s my sister, it´s the normal people out in the world who are not going to understand corruption or a virus or whatever happens and those are the guys.

Peter: Well for review hardware it´s just so nice to punch that button for system reset.

Leo: Oh yeah, isn´t that great?

Paul: And even on low end device it´s amazing.

Leo: We have, I just want to put this up, we have a missing child.

Paul: So when Mary Jo comes back are you going to put Lionel Ritchie´s face over Mary Jo´s?

Leo: It´s kind of an amber alert here.

Paul: That´s good.

Leo: it strikes me that there are, and you can correct me on this, 3 distinct audiences and each has a different need in this regard. There´s people who listen to this show, the enthusiasts, they know what to do.

Paul: And by the way they´re not buying $69 dollar tablets.

Leo: Oh, they are like crazy, but it´s not an issue because they can figure that out. There is the business, and now enterprise I would presume most businesses have people to do this kind of thing, they´re using images of their own, they probably donut care about, in fact I would guess a lot of businesses blast their recovery partition off immediately, it´s the last thing they want you to do. So really it´s this middle ground and I don´t know how big a business this is for Microsoft, from doing the radio show I sense it´s quite large, of normal people who have no clue, have no idea, they don´t make recovery.

Paul: In other words, the reason we see 4 gig phones and the reason we see 16 gig tablets is because the no name companies that make those things went to Microsoft and said you know, you need to make this as cheap as you can make it.

Peter: You see this barrel? You see the bottom of this barrel? We want to scrape that.

Paul: Yeah, we actually want to pick the barrel up, dig 6 ft further down, and you´ll find another barrel in there, go to the bottom of that, yeah. i mean, that´s just the way they are.

Leo: Everyone in the chatroom is thanking you for, many, many of them are getting build 10,041 now, a lot of them are almost done, somebody is 63%.

Peter: Oh, okay, a good question, someone asking about an iSO, there is no ISO. This is a fast track update and their policy is fast track updates will not have ISO's. Slow track updates will get ISO's.

Paul: So in other words you actually have to have Windows 10.

Peter: You have to do a in place install.

Leo: So I'm going to install Windows 10 on my phone or my desktop, you're going to get the earlier version and run it later.

Peter: Yeah. Other thing is there is no phone update today. But they have this new process of hopefully getting new updates out quicker. It does apply to the phone but the phone is harder to fix if it screws up so they have to be more careful about what they release for that.

Paul: You Microsoft apologist, I'm sick of your crap.

Peter: Well it's really difficult if you've ever tried to put the phone into Safe mode and like type commands into the command prompt it's not great for that.

Leo: Yeah, I bricked my Lumia 1520, it was not fun.

Paul: I think you're the only person on earth-

Leo: I know, I'm the one.

Peter: How did you do that?

Paul: Actually, you want to know the hilarity of this? I think he did it using the Nokia Recovery-

Leo: I did.

Peter: Oh yeah, that's...

Leo: I had a guy in here who worked for Nokia Finland and he said, oh no you can't do that. And I said, well I did. He said no, let me see I can fix it. He couldn't.

Paul: Really, I believe this has never happened before.

Leo: He literally said this cannot happen but I gave you the phone and it works not at all so there, it's a brick. But you know what I found out, that Nokia Depot or whatever, the repair folks, if you send them a phone for like $200 they'll send you a new one. So somebody on Twitter said, Hey can I have your old phone because I broke mine and if you send it to me and the screen and digitizer are working I can get you a new one. And I guess he got a new one, I haven't heard from him. But I'm okay because I have this, whatever this is. Now this has 8 gigs of storage. Is that going to have enough storage to go to Windows 10?

Paul: No, not today.

Peter: Put a micro SD in it.

Leo: This doesn't have room for that.

Paul: No it does.

Leo: What, do I pop the back off?

Paul: Yeah you can pop that whole thing off. The back has the battery, the two SIM cards, and Micro SD.

Leo: Oh my God. That's fantastic. If I brick this, I don't care. It's my lunchbox phone.

Peter: Take the top edge...

Paul: You guys need fingernails to do this. I'll take out my 635 as well and it happens to be right here. Hey, mine is green.

Leo: So did they send everybody different colors so we know when we all go to WinHec that it's mine? Would you put this up into the front because- Look a spudger, that's what I needed. I have fingernails.

Paul: Leo, you have got to two finger it from the top.

Leo: There we go. Is it me you're looking for? I can see it in your eyes. Oh yeah, there's a little- Wait a minute now, no one has this phone so this is a complete waste of our time.

Paul: I disagree, they have sold a lot of these.

Leo: I bet they have. So it goes right in there, cool.

Peter: I've got to say I'm really looking forward to the 640, the 635 is kind of sad in many ways.

Leo: Hey.

Paul: The camera is not great. It doesn't have automatic screen brightness I don't think. It doesn't have a proximity sensor.

Leo: That's okay.

Peter: I really like the 640, better screen better everything.

Paul: So doesn't the XL have a better camera?

Peter: Yeah, it's got a better camera.

Leo: So do you recommend putting an SD card in before I go put Windows 10 on this?

Peter: So my understanding is that you can move almost all of the apps over to the SD card.

Leo: Nice. Really?

Peter: Which frees up a bunch of space and I think, I could be wrong, but I think you can also use the SD card to store updates early so it doesn't need to download the patch onto the 8 gigs.

Leo: I could probably download it on my computer and put it on the SD card.

Peter: The one thing it seems not to do, which is really annoying because they're huge... Is put maps on the SD card.

Leo: Oh.

Paul: Did you Tweet about that recently?

Peter: I did.

Paul: It seems like something that came up recently.

Leo: Yeah, because I would like to download the entire globe just in case.

Paul: Yeah, just in case you get lost and offline.

Leo: Where am I?

Paul: Sometimes you can be a little too compulsive.

Leo: You're in the Tasman sea. Well fortunately I saved that map.

Paul: I have my offline map. Then you're going to be like, oh we're screwed.

Leo: Okay cool so I'll put the Windows 10 on here, although, it's not that different is it? Windows Phone 10?

Paul: Not really no.

Leo: No real rush to do that.

Paul: It's getting different.

Leo: I'll wait. The battery life is supposed to be pretty good on the 635.

Paul: It's a nice little phone.

Leo: I'm going to put an SD card in here, which will cost more than the phone.

Paul: I know. It's true. But unlike the phone, it will be useful a year from now.

Leo: That's true, I can reuse it. It came with Nokia Glam Me on it. I'm guessing the people that used this were-

Paul: Children?

Leo: Yeah. It's the Microsoft kin of Windows phones. Alright, so we explained Win Boot, we explained OS compression, we explained the new restore system. There's no point in talking about Elite Build 10,036. 10,036 is 10,041?

Peter: I think Elite Build 10,036 included Product Spot.

Paul: No it didn't.

Leo: Are you laughing at all the tech blogs that announced with big headlines, Microsoft not going to put out Internet Explorer anymore?

Paul: I made fun of it. Yeah.

Peter: Yeah, that was a fine statement on the state of technology journalism today.

Paul: It's like, Microsoft said something it said two months ago, let's pretend it's news.

Leo: Yeah, I could have sworn you told me this months ago. That they were going to rename Internet Explorer Project Spartan was not going to be the name-

Paul: Here's my problem with this, I'm completely out to lunch. How did I notice this? I don't understand what other people are doing. There's nothing to say there. It's like, hey Windows RT won't be supported by Windows 10 upgrade. Right, well they said that two months ago.

Peter: Yeah, they phrased it differently, so like before it was Windows RT will get select pieces or something like that.

Paul: Yeah, select features.

Peter: Which, I presume to mean- And I hope they do because it's kind of a nice gesture and also sensible. -Put on desktop plus Windows.

Paul: Yeah, that would be nice.

Peter: Yeah, put on desktop plus Windows.

Paul: I don't see them doing that but I agree that would be nice.

Leo: And by the way, to get back to the Spartan thing, even the headline was wrong because in fact, Internet Explorer will in fact continue to come with Windows.

Paul: Of course it will.

Leo: So even that's wrong. I mean the headlines were like, goodbye Internet Explorer.

Paul: Microsoft kills Internet Explorer branding. Yeah.

Leo: Two months ago we knew this, they would have a new name for Spartan and they're still including IE I don't get it.

Peter: Some publications just aren't that bothered about the facts.

Leo: And all headlines are link bait basically. That's really the truth. It's all about, as long as you click it they don't care.

Paul: Fair enough, I would at least appreciate them being clever. And you know, I would also appreciate at least being accurate. You know, you can't just have click bait bull shit, it has to be click bait-

Peter: The headline cannot contain all of the details, that's what the story is for. But at least be like based on reality.

Leo: That's a lot to ask...

Paul: Yeah.

Peter: But that's not how some people roll.

Leo: Hey, it's Buzz Feed's world, we're just living in it.

Paul: You're never going to believe what happens next.

Leo: Well the good news is, if you listen to Windows- And really, frankly, this is what I would use to promote Windows Weekly. You really want to know what's going on just listen to Windows Weekly and then you'll know two months ahead of time what's going to happen.

Leo: Everyone could know this, it's not like a secret. And to reiterate, because two months from now this will be the story: Sparta is not included in 10,041.

Paul: Right, and I'll explain on Twitter why that is. But Microsoft had originally said that it would be in the next public build but as a part of a new way of doing things, they have changed the process and that  apparently has something to do with why Sparta could not be included.

Leo: So have either of you seen Sparta at all or just those screen shots we saw?

Paul: No, not in person.

Peter: No. The engine is there it's just the user interface is-

Paul: Yeah. I see it every day, Leo. It's called Chrome.

Leo: It looks like Chrome doesn't it.

Paul: I'm happy to try it, I don't think it's going to change my life or anything.

Leo: I think this headline came from Vice, but I'm thrilled to see that Bit Torrent will be included in the next version of Windows. I'm joking, but there will a peer-to-peer something.

Paul: Yeah. A lot of people don't know this but in the server versions of Windows- And I think this goes back to 2008. -They had this technology for branch offices so that if someone pulled down a bunch of Windows updates over a slow WAN connection, the other machines on that local network could get it from that computer, rather than having to go back on over the WAN and it would save bandwidth and save the company money. And so, as is so often the case- This happened with Bit Locker, for example. -Those things that start first on the server are kind of making their way down to the client. And of course, as it does, it also picks up some new capabilities so it really does seem to be like a peer-to-peer thing. Because it's not just on your home network, that will work but it appears that it will go over the internet as well.

Peter: I'm 99% sure that this is completely different technology.

Paul: I just mean in other words, it doesn't have to be based on the-

Peter: The idea of if you've got several PCs, you only need to grab the updates over your internet connection once- Yes, that aspect is true, the technology is new and the reason it's sort of Bit Torrent style is that in theory, your PC will be able to update from other random PCs on the internet.

Paul: You're going to see it update so. It's like, I've got the new Hobbit movie also a security update for Internet Explorer.

Leo: Really, they're going to do it like everybody seeds?

Paul: It's optional I think.

Peter: Yeah.

Leo: You can turn that off?

Paul: I think it's a switch.

Leo: Will it be on by default?

Peter: Probably not.

Paul: We don't know but we've only seen the option for it.

Leo: It makes sense that I would download it once and seed it to my office but I don't want to seed it to everyone.

Paul: And by the way, there are people with unlimited bandwidth connections or metered connections who can't just turn that thing off.

Leo: Right. And so Microsoft is running out of bandwidth?

Paul: No, I think this is meant to be a savings sort of thing for people. In other words, when things are coming from a single direction it's often a bottle neck. Patch Tuesday is probably like a freaking disaster and this is just a way to get this stuff working for you the way the internet does. Coming at you from multiple directions.

Leo: Yeah, I'm not complaining, we distributed this show in its earliest days on Bit Torrent but that was a volunteer type thing and we asked people, would you mind seeding?

Peter: I imagine that the trade off- Particularly if you have a really fast internet connection. -It will be quicker to get them.

Leo: Microsoft runs out of bandwidth and you won't believe what happens next.

Paul: Yeah, it's like SETI, except instead of intelligent life on other planets, we're looking for updates.

Leo: Thank you TechnoSquid for that one. The chat room is now becoming my writer's room.

Paul: Watch local news and you'll discover that people on Twitter have now become their reporters.

Leo: Yeah, thanks to Meerkat we have direct video from that fire.

Paul: I don't watch local news but for the first 15 minutes last night, which we did watch for the first time in ages, it was all reports from Twitter, from people's cell phones... It was the most ridiculous excuse for journalism I've ever seen.

Leo: Yeah, you watch Good Morning America now you'll hear last week's memes. It's crazy.

Paul: Yeah, it's really sad. I am really kind of blown away by how low quality that was.

Leo: I think probably they think our viewers are so stupid they don't have the internet so this is all new to them.

Paul: Well I think a lot of people who watch these stupid news shows they're thinking, wow I could participate in this, you know?

Leo: Wow, I could be part of the fun.

Paul: It's not people who know what's happening tell me what's happening, I could be a part of the show. Sure enough, that's a show.

Leo: Well the news vans are wearing out and you don't really need to buy a new one anymore.

Paul: I guess I don't know. Can't send Suzy the intern out on the shore of Massachusetts during a hurricane.

Leo: This box was floating underwater the last ten minutes.

Paul: Yeah, Bob where I'm standing, the wind is apparently 156 mph.

Leo: Alright, moving along. We've got to make some forward progress. Microsoft promises to speed Windows 10 preview releases.

Paul: They explained that today let's just- The promise here is we're going to see at least one new build every month possibly two.

Leo: Don't make promises you can't keep.

Paul: Well they have a plan Leo and they've never let us down before.

Leo: I have a plan.

Paul: As they said on Blackadder, I have a plan and it's as hot as my pants.

Leo: And has anybody looked at the icons yet on the new-

Paul: The icons are horrific and everyone hates them.

Leo: The 10,041 icons? Are they the same?

Paul: Yeah. So this was a big controversy for some reason. I would say that I didn't really care personally but there's no other way to fix this other than to offer multiple sets of icons because whatever they ship isn't going to make people happy. That's just the way things go these days. And instead of trying to figure out some sets of icons to make people happy-

Peter: I think the way to fix it is just to ship it and tell people to shut the hell up.

Paul: You could do that, but they're not Apple. But yeah, this issue...

Peter: Apple is a very successful company, Paul. Wouldn't you want to be like Apple?

Leo: These are the flattest icons we've ever made.

Paul: They're so flat, they're actually technically a little concave.

Leo: These icons are thinner than a Biafran baby. No, that was bad. I'm sorry, too soon. Can't people just change the icons? Don't people sell icon packs or theme packs or whatever?

Paul: People just complain loudly and repeatedly, preferably on Twitter.

Leo: Microsoft doesn't offer theme packs anymore do they? Remember you used to be able to change the appearance?

Paul: Like a plus pack thing.

Leo: They don't do that anymore.

Paul: They need a Windows 10 plus pack.

Leo: Each pixel carefully placed by hand.

Peter: Make it look like Windows XP.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: By Tibetan Monks.

Paul: It's the watercolor theme from Whistler. Which by the way would actually look fantastic today because that was actually kind of flat as well.

Peter: Right and geometric and good looking.

Paul: What comes around goes around.

Leo: I have a very very cunning plan.

Paul: Yes, I love that show. It's like Baldrick, there are monkeys in the Andes that have figured this out.

Leo: There is a Windows 10 build for phones leaked, right?

Paul: Yeah, and what you start to see are Windows 10 for PC elements making their way down to the phone. It's a bunch of stuff we just don't see in the phone build so hopefully, we get a new phone build sometime this month.

Peter: Also making it look a little more- The current public Windows 10 phone build looks very unfinished in places.

Paul: Yeah, I was going to say rough. We'll make you an American one reference at a time.

Leo: We're going to have a new segment, What does the Aul Tweet? Gabe Aul is talking about the icons, "It's a key point of preview. We try something new, you share feedback, we consider it."

Paul: By the way, not to single out the guy who wrote the question he's responding to, but it's very typical. In other words, what you're saying is you're going to change them again. I mean, why even put these out now?

Leo: Why bother? Why not wait?

Paul: So here's my response to this. First of all, Gabe Aul is a superhero, he's on Twitter interacting with normal people- Which he must regret. I'm sure in Microsoft the door slammed shut behind them and they're all giggling on the other side and it's not him personally torturing you. There is also a self-righteous indignation aspect of this, and of course I engage in it as well but I try to direct-

Peter: You come from a position of professionalism.

Paul: I can't live up to that but the ire I have is for the machine, it's not for Gabe Aul but the problem is when you put yourself out there- And you and I experience this everyday Leo. -The ire is directed at you. So today should be a great day for Gabe Aul because they have a new build he's the hero of the internet but he's still going to get this crap like every day. It's never going to stop because you're never going to make everyone happy. And by just responding, you've alerted the world to the fact that you are now it's punching bag.

Leo: Sigh...

Paul: Yeah, it's too bad. I mean Gabe Aul is a jerk obviously. No, he's the best.

Leo: Gabe you jerk! How dare you!

Paul: No, he's excellent. And I feel bad because I criticize the process a lot but it's not directed at him.

Peter: And you know, let's compare to the process under the old administration.

Leo: It's a lot better than it was.

Paul: Remember that meeting in the first Star Wars movie where he raised his hand and the guy started choking to death? That was previously the way it worked. Hey I don't like these icons, auuughghla. Anybody else not like the icons?

Peter: That's if you were even acknowledged at all.

Paul: That would have been the internal reaction.

Leo: Somebody in the chatroom said there's a new plus pack for Windows 10 they're going to call it the Winer Pack and everything you don't like about Windows 10-

Paul: It will just make it look like Windows 7.

Leo: Yeah, that's what they want. Many of us actually would be happy.

Peter: XP is where I'm at.

Leo: What is a sensor core based-

Paul: Who cares, Leo? This doesn't even matter anymore. This is so minor today. This is available on your 635 if I'm not mistaken. There's a motion data settings app and the old versions of the OS, or old versions of the settings app I guess, it would just be on or off and if you put it on, you could use apps like Microsoft Health and Fitness that would let your phone work like a fitness device. It would track your movements and report that data to the app. The new version of it actually supplies a lot more information. You can go right to the app itself and you can see where you've been over time and it gives you graphs of the data and so forth and it provides a lot more information to those apps so it's a more powerful system than they used to have. In fact, I meant to check this since I went to Colorado because I have had this thing on since I went away.

Peter: I didn't notice that you moved.

Paul: That's what I'm wondering. Yeah. Let me look, it'll only take me twenty minutes, don't worry about it.

Leo: While you're looking, let's take a break. When in doubt, take a break.

Paul: Oh, that's awesome.

Leo: You're talking about something else, I'm sure.

Paul: There's a map, it gives you a map and so you can actually see where I traveled. It looks like the Bermuda Triangle.

Leo: Our show today brought to you by Ziprecruiter.com. If you're in the position of having to hire- Maybe you're a single owner and you need some help, or maybe you've got a big business and you're the person responsible. -Ziprecruiter.com is the place to go. Because instead of going to just a single job board hoping that's hitting the right people, you're hitting them all. 50+ job boards with one click of the mouse. And social sites too like Facebook and Twitter. I think this is amazing. And they do more than just post it to 50+ job boards, they also have an interface. All of the applications run into the interface so you don't have to worry about a lot of phone calls or emails to you. You simply sign into Zip Recruiter's interface, screen your candidates, pick the right one, hire the right person instantly. It's so great. With Zip Recruiters premium traffic boost, you're going to get up to three times the number of candidates which is even better. This is the modern way to hire. Quickly screen applicants, rate them, hire the right person fast, there's a lot of nice features I want you to visit ziprecruiter.com/windows, take a look at all of the things Zip Recruiter can do for you and then take advantage of it with a free four day trial and 30% off your first traffic boost. Look at all of the companies that use Zip Recruiter, more than 200,000 businesses including our own. Ziprecruiter.com/windows, try it for free and get 30% off your first traffic boost. That's ziprecruiter.com/windows. What a great solution. Paul Thurrott is here from thurrott.com and Peter Bright from Arstechnica. What do you got there?

Paul: I don't know if you can see that, I drove my dad to the airport today and I took a different route home than I went in but this sort of approximates the way I went in and out of the city. And so if I was walking- And this would have been the most active day of my life. -But I was in a car.

Peter: So still pretty active but...

Paul: Yeah, for me. Leaving the house is actually a major-

Leo: He got out. Google Dashboard does this if you let it. It will track everywhere you've been ever. And it's fun because you can fast forward through the day and show yourself going all over the place. But now you can do it with your Windows phone. What else? Convergence? Let's talk about Office.

Paul: How can I shift gears like this? They had a public preview of Office 2016 sort of like they did with the Mac. Did you ever get that installed, Peter?

Peter: Yeah, I had to blow away my MSI Office 2013 and switch to click to run. And that's-

Paul: I was only able to get back to Office 2013 after having all kinds of problems and knowing that a build would happen eventually I decided to wait for Windows 10, I'm going to blow the whole thing away tonight. But I still never installed it and bought a PC.

Peter: It's kind of... It's Office, you know?

Paul: Right, it's exactly the same.

Peter: Do you use Office, I use Outlook.

Paul: I use Word. What do you write in?

Peter: I write in a thing called Mark Down Pad and use the Mark Down language. It's a bit nicer than html.

Paul: Mark Down Pad?

Peter: Yeah. Markdownpad.com.

Paul: So does it do spell checking or anything like that?

Peter: It does spell checking yeah.

Leo: It's nice, you get a preview pane as well as an entry pane.

Peter: It's nicer than html. If I need to use html for like tables and things I can still just plop down html right in there.

Paul: Do you paste this into a web forum from whatever CMS you're using or do you actually redirect into that?

Peter: We use Word Press. All the plug-ins I've found for Mark Down and Word Press are actually pretty awful. So select the text I want if I just do Control+C that just copies it as is, but if I do Control+Shift+C, that copies the generated html and I can just dump that straight into Word Press. Unlike what Word gives me, it's really clean and simple html.

Paul: That's why I'm wondering, to me it's sort of a process and the important part of that process is that last part. For whatever reason pasting from Word into Word Press works for me but-

Peter: Yeah, I think Word Press has features to handle that html.

Paul: For example, if you use Office online, the web-based version of Word or Open Office or Google Docs or whatever, and do the same thing, what gets pasted in looks different. It seems like you have to have Word, which is why I'm wondering.

Peter: The text it produces is like really basic, so it's like bold and italics and headers that kind of thing. We do tables and stuff but I can just dump an html table in there and get the right CSS and everything.

Leo: Mark Down is actually really cool and it does tables and everything. Maybe not as fully as you would like to... Are you now installing this Mark Down Pad?

Paul: I'm writing in it.

Peter: It's a good app.

Leo: It'd be really great if it had a 'post to Word Press' button. It would be like Live Writer, kind of.

Paul: Yeah, I worry about things like spacing and paragraph spacing. Even going from Word on the PC to Word on the Mac, there are formatting issues. Neil Stevenson used to write everything with Tech and...

Leo: Once you learn it, it becomes a part of you but it's just a pain in the butt to learn it. And the reason people did it in the old days was because you had to. You really had no control over formatting.

Paul: But I kind of like the simplicity of Mark Down.

Leo: No, I love Mark Down. I've used it for years.

Peter: And the side-by-side view is nice. I could probably do something like really fancy and then do like CS sets so that it looks like our site.

Leo: Dr. Pizza, you should have saved this for your pick of the week, I'm just saying.

Peter: I've already done it as a pick of the week.

Leo: There you go. Anything else about Office? Skype for Business Client launches in preview form.

Peter: They're doing the thing- I'm kind of surprised it took this long. -Office 365 will have PSTN connectivity from later this year. And that's part of the Skype integration. That's one thing that made sense when they bought Skype.

Paul: So starting this summer in the US only there will be a preview you can get on Office 365 and this will be the beginning of the end for on-prem telephoning systems I guess.

Peter: That will be nice, but like I don't care.

Paul: It will not matter when it's done, yeah. We don't have time to explain what Office Delve is because it's time of the machine stuff and it's really complicated.

Leo: Let's talk about something very simple then, very personal. Something you hold near and dear to your heart, we're talking the Microsoft Band.

Paul: Yeah, so suddenly they're in the news a lot and this week they're more broadly available and you can get it at Amazon, Best Buy, and Target in the US. Starting next month they will be available to the UK as well, or maybe just Microsoft store.

Peter: Yeah, so it's available for pre-order right now in the UK on the Microsoft store. It will also be available through retailers. If you really hate yourself you'll be able to go to the Dixons group stores. I really recommend that you don't because they're the most horrific stores known to man. Americans don't know how lucky you are with Best Buy.

Leo: It's worse than Best Buy?

Peter: Best Buy is heavenly compared to the Dixons Group stores. They're like where you go when you die and you've been bad.

Paul: Purgatory's waiting room.

Peter: They're the worst stores ever created. But yeah, you'll be able to buy the Microsoft band there.

Paul: While you're slowly slitting your wrists in line.

Peter: Yeah. Don't, go to Amazon on the web.

Leo: It's probably done kind of similarly to the- Who is it who is doing stores? Google is doing stores... Apple used to do stores in Best Buy where they basically pay for the space. Google is doing a store within a store in the Curries in London.

Peter: That's like saying, hey you've got a really nice cesspit, we'd like to-

Paul: There's a mammoth slowly dying in the oil pool over there.

Leo: And did you do the Microsoft band field guide Paul?

Paul: I did.

Leo: Nice. In your spare time in between books?

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Where can we find that?

Paul: Fieldguidebooks.com.

Leo: So this is really going to become your brand here. I really like the name.

Paul: The website is still the old 8.1 website. It's right there at the top though.

Leo: Free, it's in PDF, MOBI, or ePUB. Nice. How long is it?

Paul: It's not that long.

Leo: So this is kind of like the manual should have been.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Neat. So do you use it?

Paul: It's a lot of untapped potential. The big thing I would say about it is it's a data collecting monster, it does so much data collection. There just isn't a lot in the way of proactive stuff. You know the, it's been an hour you need to get up for a minute. You haven't exercised at all today want to go for a walk, it doesn't do that stuff although it has the capability. I think it will get there but it has some awesome exercise stuff like vertical activity things for running and cycling. It's only going to get better and by the standards of these kinds of devices, it's a lot more powerful than devices that cost the same and it's a lot less expensive than devices that kind of approach it's functionality.

Peter: What I will say, it blows me away for a version one Microsoft product. And apparently the sort of development cycle was reasonable but it's a really solid competitively priced, capable device if you care about fitness bands, which I obviously don't.

Paul: And it works with everything by the way, it works with every device.

Peter: Yeah, for version one it's really encouraging.

Leo: Neat. Paul calls this another installment in our ongoing- Ooh, Microsoft. Oh you. Cortana is coming to iOS and Android.

Paul: Purportedly.

Leo: Actually Peter Bright is the one who reported this. I like him, he writes for Arstechnica. It's funny because Google is on Android and iOS and I do think the folks who did Siri are doing a new Siri for iOS. So there's a lot of ways to do this nuances, speech capability. When it's built into the OS that's the one you're going to use because it's just there.

Peter: On Android, the hooks are already there and Cortana on Android could be just as capable. But I bet not on iOS.

Leo: Yeah probably not. For Google now, you actually have to launch the Google app and then you can use it.

Peter: Yeah. I just don't see what the upside is here.

Paul: I think that confused stutter step there is exactly the response everyone has to this kind of thing.

Leo: Well let me propose a thought. People can try it and go this is really a different and better experience.

Paul: So what?

Leo: So maybe they get a Windows phone.

Paul: We understand why Nokia puts air maps on Android, we get it and we know why. Because there are so many of those phones. Everyone on that phone is going to use Google maps, every single one of them. Some people may download it and try it, they may even like it but they're going to use Google. They just are. It's not a reflection on air maps which has its pros and cons. Offline maps, for example, which is a neat feature. Google will eventually really have.

Leo: Google is doing something really interesting, they are putting out an API for third-party apps to integrate into the Now Cards and presumably that will add up. I could have a TWiT app that would actually put up a Google Now Card that says Windows Weekly is about to start.

Paul: In the box is so important, and it's not just in the box on Google. I mean, you use Google maps on your PC or whatever, you sign in with your Google account and your maps are all there and your directions are all there. It just kind of works, and that's how people do things. Cortana is great, and there's no issue I'm pointing at with it, it's just I don't think most people would bother. Why would they?

Peter: And even if they do, they'll be using a free service. I guess you can get Cortana to do a Bing web search and yes that will show you ads and monetized results. But all the good stuff in Cortana like sports scores or telling you it's time to leave for the airport, or your plane is late. All those things are free, there are no ads and that's not monetized in any way. Even if people really get into it and use it a lot, what's the point?

Leo: Alright we're going to take a break and do the back of the book. If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere segment coming up in just a bit but first, a word from Hip Chat our wonderful sponsors. Hip Chat is a great solution for the teams in your life. If you’re a programmer or a development team- We use it in our engineering department, we use it for sales. Initially, it looks a little bit like Instant Messenger, it is kind of a chat app but it's a lot more. It's team chat that's built for business. That means it's video chat, it's document sharing, screen sharing, code sharing. All in a simple, easy to use, fun platform. Email is not the right way to run a team, that's for sure. Meetings, don't get me started. And regular instant messenger isn't designed to integrate into your work flow the way Hip Chat is. Hip Chat keeps your team in sync, it works from any device no matter where you are. And it integrates with 57 services like Git Hub, JIRA, Zen Disk, New Relic so your Hip Chat suddenly becomes a dashboard to everything you need to use. It's fantastic. It's easy to set up, fun to use, makes your team wildly productive, and it's free. Hip Chat Freemium is free forever but we've got the full version of Hip Chat just for you, right now for the next 30 days you don't have to give a credit card or anything. Just try it for free at hipchat.com/windowsweekly. Very important to note that unlike your email solution, unlike any other solution, it's 100% secure. It's locked down and you can even run your own server if you want, total security. This is a good solution and I want you to try it and no credit card needed at hipchat.com/windowsweekly. 30 days free, although, for the first 100 people that respond right now, it will get you 90 days. 3 months free, that is nice. My Hip Chat is running on every computer all the time it's just automatic and every smartphone, every mobile device. It's the way, if my team has a question for me, I can answer them fast, it really works well. Hipchat.com/windowsweekly try it free for 90 days right now. Peter Bright, Paul Thurrott thurrott.com, arstechnica.com Dr. Pizza, @thurrott. Time for the back of the book, people have already started playing with 10,041 the new build of Windows 10. Somebody is saying the Defender icon is on the task bar now.

Paul: Stop the press.

Leo: Old apps are disappearing and new ones are being added.

Paul: I do say.

Leo: The icons are thinner, yet! I say, sir. I say! Where is my fainting couch? Do you have, Paul Thurrott, a pick of any kind? Any kind at all.

Paul: I do. Okay so my tip of the week is, you may recall some time ago I recommended that people put a music drive in their OneDrive and start copying music in it because at the very least, you could sync that music from PC to PC if you wanted to. But then Microsoft was planning to update Xbox Music to support that and that support happened today. So if you're like me and did this months ago, that music is now available for free in Xbox Music. It doesn't require an Xbox Music pass. You can stream it over the web, you can download it to your devices from anywhere.

Leo: Awesome!

Paul: Yeah. So if you haven't done it, Microsoft has added a Music Folder to your One Drive so you can do it that way. This just happened today so that's a neat thing. And then the software pick is Clipper, which is something I have recommended in the past. I think it's a Bookmarklet, if I'm using the right term, on IE but on Chrome it's a full-blown add in and it's a little more powerful on Chrome. But they've thoroughly updated it, a beautiful UI and you can choose per clip where the web clipping goes. But it also has kind of a neat capability to natively support articles, recipes, and products. So if you're looking at an article and you Clip it and you say this is an article, it will just clip the text and the graphics. It won't get the ads and the surrounding bologna. It's just become a lot more powerful. It's a really neat way to Clip stuff from the web, copy and paste it basically, from the web into your One Note Notebooks. So it's just an awesome app and it's just gotten a lot better.

Leo: You're all One Note all the time I think.

Paul: That's me. One Note and Word is how I spend a lot of my day.

Leo: Peter Bright, did you bring along anything to share with the class?

Peter: I was going to do a comedy beer option.

Leo: Okay, there's always room for beer.

Peter: There's always the beer of the week so I have been drinking a lot of tea recently from a company called adagio.com.

Leo: Oh, I love Adagio tea. Yeah.

Peter: Yeah they deliver the tea and they have this earl gray Bergamo I think it's called.

Leo: Oh, see I don't like the Bergamo.

Peter: It's orgasmic.

Leo: What is it about Bergamo I don't understand.

Peter: I don't know, it's great. And a few weeks ago we got a Mr. Coffee Iced Tea Maker.

Leo: That sounds like a contradiction in terms.

Peter: Yeah, it doesn't make coffee strangely. And I make this earl gray iced tea and it's just delicious. That's my recommendation.

Leo: Paul you like the earl gray?

Paul: No, I drink green tea and I also drink, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing this correctly, Rooibos tea?

Leo: Yeah, Rooibos. It's not even tea, it's like tree bark or something.

Peter: Yeah, that is good.

Leo: Mr. Coffee Iced Tea Maker. Wait, how would this even work? You put water in it and it heats it up.

Peter: And then pours it over ice.

Leo: So where does the tea live?

Peter: You see that bit towards the top? You put the tea in that.

Leo: It's got a basket like for the coffee makers. But is that enough time for it to steep?

Peter: Yeah it trickles the water through quite slowly.

Leo: Okay, so it gets it's 4 minutes of 200 degree water steeping. And it really is good?

Peter: Yeah, and it's just very convenient because you just fill it up with water and press a button. And so you want to recommend Adagio tea's earl gray? This is Mary Jo, come back fast.

Paul: Well I do have a beer pick. He's British, it's not his fault.

Leo: I like Irish Breakfast Tea. I like a good, dark-

Peter: Good and strong.

Leo: Yeah, early gray bravo. I see, it looks like it has little pieces of potato chips in there, what is that?

Peter: Orange peels.

Leo: Ah. See that would be alright. Orange peel and what is the blue thing?

Peter: I don't know. The good thing about Adagio is they have steeping instructions. Steep at 212 degrees for 2-3 minutes.

Peter: You can also get small sample portions and try them.

Leo: Yeah, maybe I'll give earl gray another try because all I've had are like the crappy twinings...

Peter: I haven't tried other earl grays.

Leo: Lavender earl gray, that sounds interesting. We're trying to drive Paul off.

Paul: Anyway.

Leo: I feel I should drink more tea and less coffee. You can't do both because coffee will ruin your pallet for tea. You'll say what is this weak boring brown water, do you have anything stronger?

Peter: Like when you go to a restaurant and ask for iced tea they put so much damn ice in it it's just watered down and has no real taste. I like my tea to pack a punch.

Leo: Me too. Another thing is sweet tea.

Peter: That's a default, yeah. It's great if you want diabetes. Like take that pancreas.

Leo: Suck it. But Adagio tea is very highly recommended I think they're great. Paul Thurrott I guess we should do beer now.

Paul: Yeah, I was in Ft. Collins boulder area last week which is the beer capital of the world, sorry Belgium. And there are amazing ranges of breweries down there. I didn't go anyplace new just to my favorites like Avery and New Belgium primarily. And New Belgium has a series of beers called Lips of Faith and they're all sours basically. So we did a Lips of Faith flight which is like 9 different beers, most of which I hadn't had before. There was one that was like a Chili beer which sounds like it'd be terrible but it was awesome. If you're ever in a place where you can get Lips of Faith beer, which is probably out west somewhere, definitely check this stuff out.

Leo: What characterizes the Lips of Faith beer?

Paul: They're sours.

Leo: Okay.

Paul: But they really span a range. There are some that are like half lights, there are some that are like dark and stoutish kinds. This is there chance to do things kind of crazy.

Leo: Well you know how yesterday was St. Patrick's Day in the US and I made a corn beef and cabbage of course so I did it in the slow cooker and I decided to put beer in it instead of water, which makes it quite tasty. But I might have over did it because I got a fancy Belgium triple and it was kind of a waste of a triple. But it was good and then today I had corn beef hash which was good. But I told Lisa, get me a Triple and she bought two so I had some undrunk Golden Drock so come over and we'll have a good triple. Did not turn out mushy, thank you very much. Dr. Mom said you can't do that, oh yes I can. We do Windows Weekly every Wednesday, it's kind of the fun day hump day show at 11am Pacific 2pm Eastern and a word of warning to those of you in countries where you haven't entered summertime or anything, we did and so we're at 1800 UTC so you'll have to do your math.

Paul: Daylight Savings Time is the best isn't it? Because everything was going great so let's screw up the schedule.

Leo: Every year people die because of it, it's terrible. It's like imposing jetlag on an entire nation without the travel.

Paul: Jet lag without the benefit of the photos you took on your vacation.

Leo: Mr. Dr. Pizza, thank you for being here.

Peter: Pleasure as always.

Leo: Is there a Dr. Pizza Iced Tea Maker? That'd be good. @drpizza on Twitter you'll find him on Arstechnica as one of the great writers. If I had to pick one online publication besides thurrott.com that I read and really feel trusting in it, it's Arstechnica, you really have a great team over there. Please say hi to them and if you ever wish to work more with TWiT we'd do that, it's just the quality platform. Thank you Dr. P and Mr. T. Paul Thurrott is at thurrott.com, that's his new home on the net, three t's, two r's, a u, and an o. that's how you spell it. Thank you gentlemen and we'll see ya'll next time on Windows Weekly!