Windows Weekly 404 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Thurrott is here, he´s in Fort Collins, Mary Jo Foley is in Vietnam, so we´ve got Daniel Rubino from Windows Central. and a great show for you, we´re going to give the reaction, a reasonable reaction to the Apple announcement, including why the Microsoft band is really your better choice. It´s all up next, on Windows weekly.

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This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley, Episode 404, recorded March 11 2015

Sleepless in Fort Collins

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Leo: It's time for Windows Weekly, the show where we cover the latest news from Microsoft. Mary Jo Foley is still on assignment, so Daniel Rubino´s here, Paul Thurrott is here, we got a show, thank you guys for showing up. Paul´s in Fort Collins, Colorado.

Paul Thurrott: It´s such a weird angle.

Leo: His Surface Pro 3 is on a stack of towels so as the show progresses, Paul´s head will slowly sink off the screen. Nice to see you Paul. Paul´s a little bit of, got a little bit of a cold. That´s the way you want to look, that´s good yeah. Nice hair by the way, it´s coming in well.

Paul: I know, I got to get a cut, it´s getting too long.

Leo: Look at that, I´m so jealous. I´m so jealous you actually have hair.

Paul: It´s like the mat pelt of a mink.

Leo: He´s got hair like a mink!

Paul: Like a weasel.

Leo: And then there´s Daniel Rubino who has lovely nice Italian hair.

Daniel Rubino: Yes, it´s still here, it´s the only thing I´m psyched about getting older.

Paul: Yeah, you´re not going bald.

Daniel: Nope, I actually crossed that boundary, it´s going to be here for life I think, so yeah.

Leo: That´s a good head of hair he´s got there. Daniel of course is at Windows, actually I got the wrong thing, it says WPCentral here, we have to fix that. They´ve rebranded to because it´s just not about phones, it´s about life.

Daniel: It really is, Windows everywhere.

Leo: Is there a short URL or do we just have to type the whole thing out?

Daniel: Well actually if you type WPCentral it redirects you to Windows Central.

Leo: Let´s use There you go, Fixed it for you on the fly. Thank you for filling in, Mary Jo is in, we said Vietnam, right?

Paul: Yeah, so she started in Hong Kong and then she, well just for a couple of days, and then she went to Vietnam but she sent some photos that you can display on screen if you´d like to.

Leo: She has swayed, she said she´d sway. So, do I just scroll, is there a ?

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leo: This is beautiful, this is in Cambodia. Ho Chi Minh City, this is nice! Look at the way this is assembling, kind of motion graphics.

Paul: So you can click on a photo to show it full screen if you wanted to do that.

Leo: Can I arrow through them maybe? Uh no. Is that her? On the motorcycle there?

Paul: I think so.

Leo: There´s a lot of flip flops. Wow, here´s a fish, nice looking fish with some.

Daniel: Where´s the tartar sauce?

Leo: There´s mint. Minty fish. Ooh, don´t know what that is.

Paul: That is actually a fish by the way. It looks like it´s got gross stuff on it but I think that´s just probably

Leo: Probably garlic. The neat thing about Vietnam is that it´s of course Asian but it´s highly influenced by the French. It was a French colony for a long time, so it´s really kind of amazing food.

Paul: And who knew you could eat a coelacanth?

Leo: Looks like it, doesn´t it?

Paul: It looks like a giant dinosaur fish.

Leo: Here´s a US Army helicopter, a duplicate of the one that flew the embassy staff out of Hanoi after we ended the war. There´s a war, looks like it says war remnants, but I don´t, I can´t, it does, it says War Remnants Museum, I guess these are left behind from Americans. There´s Hue, we took the overnight train to Hue, this is beautiful. So this is, is this public? Can I give people the link?

Paul: Yeah, I think so, I would say so.

Leo:, I guess search for Mary Jo Foley on

Daniel: I haven´t even tried it yet.

Leo: Well that´s the thing, she wanted to try it, I think we´re all in it now right, it´s no longer a private beta I think anybody who is an Office subscriber can try sway. Wow this is great Mary Jo.

Paul: I think my favorite picture that she took is the last one and I think it´s from Hanoi, and it´s just kind of a city shot, I´m sorry the second last one. The one in the middle there.

Leo: Do you think she took these? This one, I love this, you know what, I caught it too. Do you think she took these with her Icon?

Paul: Yeah, she did. I´m pretty sure she did.

Leo: That´s pretty nice, wonder if it has an info, no there´s no, you can share it though, it´ll give you a link to sway. Anybody with this URL will be able to view it. That´s neat. Gorgeous, that is really gorgeous.

Paul: I went to Colorado.

Leo: Do you have a sway to your trip to the brewery?

Paul: No, I will though.

Leo: There you go. Sway it. This is nice. I love how it´s put together, not only are pictures great but I love the, they fly in, and the way that all works. is a new Office tool, we´ve talked about it before on the show, I´m not sure exactly how to characterize it, is it a presentation tool?

Paul: Yeah, it is. It´s a standard tool, like a plug in for Powerpoint, those documents are sways I guess, they exist only in the cloud, there´s no offline version. It´s kind of a, like a multimedia project.

Leo: It´s a photo album but you can do more, like Powerpoint stuff with it.

Daniel: Yeah, it feels like an outgrow with Powerpoint, with some more consumer friendly applications and just for general stuff. Because you can tell though, all those animations, they are very powerpointish.

Leo: yeah, they are, aren´t they? Oh Paul, you´re breaking up really bad here. Should we try calling him back? Alex is here. I don´t think it´s going to improve it, I think it´s the bandwidth in your hotel.

Paul: By the way I asked for a wire and I didn´t bring one stupidly and I had to go WiFi.

Leo: That´s alright. I think the problem is not particularly WiFi, it´s bandwidth issue. We´ll just hope.

Daniel: Tell everybody to get off, for the next hour.

Paul: I paid for the more expensive, I can´t understand why it´s not perfect.

Leo: The funny thing is your image is gorgeous, you´ve never looked so good.

Paul: From a clarity perspective, yeah.

Leo: Anyway, when will Mary Jo be back? Next week? The week after? What do we know about that? Just miss the next one, alright. So, we´ll get her back in a couple of weeks but having Daniel Rubino here is always a thrill, he´s filled in for Paul, now he´s filling in for Mary Jo, we love having you on. Um, Microsoft has revealed how the Xbox will get Windows 10. I am really excited about this because I don´t know.

Paul: Actually let´s

Leo: You don´t want to do that?

Paul: Well I was going to say maybe Daniel should speak this because I´ll go off and then the same rant that no one will hear because of my internet connection but, there´s been a lot of stuff about the preview release and they kind of posted a blog post that frankly didn´t explain anything but maybe, maybe you could handle that from a more even kill than I would.

Daniel: Alright. So yeah, I mean, the big issue is that since the January update there´s been talk of faster refreshes to this preview, and that really has to do with the fast ring slow ring thing going on so when you sign up for the preview you can do fast or slow. The idea is fast would go faster obviousy but

Leo: Do you mean more updates? More often?

Daniel: Yeah exactly, that you would, and so people are really sort of, it´s sort of like Chrome right, the Chrome browser, like they have the canary build and they have the beta, and they have the public. They have those different levels right? Canary is the nightly build, and it just comes out, Canary and Chrome are so like dangerous, it doesn´t actually install, it doesn´t overwrite your existing Chrome installation. So I think what people are sort of arguing for is like, give us more, you know, I don´t say dangerous builds, but, more frequent builds. And so this has to do with Microsoft reevaluating what they call the risk speed ratio. And so, they went to a blog to sort of explain you know, their process, which I actually thought was kind of neat from an engineering perspective, as consumers we tend to be like, just push it out, like how hard is it, but when you see how many images they compile every day for Windows 10 and how they´re sending those out testing them internally and all the different hardware they test on it, it actually is a difficult process. But it does look like there´s going to be movement on this in the next couple of weeks where we´re going to be able to start getting more frequent builds. In fact last night there was, that they accidentally, so there´s an app on Windows 10 called Insider Hub that´s actually really cool that you launch it and it´s like a way for Microsoft to talk to you directly about the preview you´re using. So a message had got out saying you know, things are about to speed up, we´re going to start doing daily builds of Windows 10 and if you don´t want that choose the slow ring method. But it turns out that was posted in error, it was supposed to be internal but it went external. And so what that means exactly, we don´t know but it´s obvious that they´re, Abe has spoken to this all on twitter a little bit that they´re definitely looking into speeding up the rate of updates that people will get and the frequency of them including new features and all that kind of stuff. Because it´s been kind of like what? 6 weeks now since the last update and so people are just getting kind of antsy. And this also ties into Windows Phone, which only has had that one release for Windows 10 so far and hasn´t had any more, so.

Leo: And by the way, and we mentioned this in a previous show, but it´s worth repeating, you should follow Gabe Aul if you are not, on twitter, because he´s the, it says general manager OSG data and fundamentals team, but for some reason he´s become a real conduit for information from the Windows team.

Paul: Gabe´s a great guy, it´s unfortunate because, I mean right now they´re just kind of disappointing enthusiasts, and I mean I love the guy.

Leo: Why is it disappointing? Why are you upset? Give me the rant, understanding that you only do about 4 words before you break up.

Paul: Alright.

Leo: So do a 4 word rant.

Paul: Okay, they said there would be more and faster and there has been less and slower. And it´s just getting silly and I mean the notion that some build has been held up because of like a bug, you know we used to get builds every single week back in the day. You know, whatever, we know you´re testing, if you´re on the fast thing whatever, I, there are people that really want to participate in the development of this product and their voice isn´t being herd because they never give us anything to test.

Leo: You share that disappointment Mr. Rubino?

Daniel: To a certain extent sure. You know it does make sense, the idea here is like, well for instance, Windows 10 on Phone version, it´s that one version honestly after about the first half hour I as kind of like okay, I´m kind of done with it, it´s not stable enough to use on like a regular phone, you know, so I´m not carrying it around with me and there´s really no new features. You can give feedback on things they have done but people are definitely looking for, you know if it comes every, even once a week, twice, every 2 weeks, something like that, at least you´re presumably getting new features, new improvements, polish the UI, then we can give feedback to that, and that sort of, we´re looking for that punctuation but when it goes 6 weeks at a time, and you get that same build, even Windows 10, I have an old XPS 13 and I put it on there and it´s like, it´s good but I wouldn´t use it as my daily device because the fan kicks on all the time, and there are a lot of these kind of issues. But, um, I guess they have to worry about whether they´re going to damage people´s devices and blue screens of death and all that kind of stuff. So I don´t think it´s an easy task that they´re dealing with but they do, they should probably speed things up.

Leo: You think that some of this comes from the fact that more people signed up for it than they thought and now they´re worried oh it´s normal people too that are using this. I mean they´re more sensitive to issues that might be.

Paul: I mean you really have to opt into this faster.

Leo: It´s not automatic, you have to actually say I want to be on the fast track.

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, I think also what Paul was saying before you know this is the real enthusiast crowd that´s doing this stuff. Those are always going to the most focal people that want to download and install this and have all the opinions on every little thing. And so those people are the ones who are going to get bored the quickest too and want the latest stuff, even with all the leaks that come out about the new build, you know, they still want that information even though they tend to be running a leak of an operating system. In one way it´s like, it´s a problem that can never be solved, you´re never going to really satisfy enthusiast users if you do it once a week they´re going to start arguing for once a day then twice a day, there´s this slippery slope of updates, but this is definitely, 6 weeks is definitely a long span.

Paul: I don´t think the phone is as critical, but then again, you know, phone is obviously not doing well in the marketplace, Microsoft hasn´t shipped a new flagship in a long, long time. You know one of the bones you could throw these enthusiasts would be, actually there´s several you could do but, you know one would be putting this thing out on the devices that people actually have you know, letting them test it on the 1520 or an Icon or whatever. It´s the little thing you know, it´s the lack of communication building up to that when they could´ve said by the way we are going to ship this but just so you know, it´s only going to work on a couple of low end phones, don´t get all upset when it comes out and it doesn´t run on your phone. I mean, that would´ve helped tremendously, and um, it´s not how much the actual speed is, it´s just the, either lack of communication or the inaccurate communication, it gets frustrating overtime.

Daniel: But it´s getting better.

Paul: Well, is it? It can really get better.

Leo: Paul we´re going to turn off your video return just for a, just so you don´t freak out when we do that. See if that helps, Ah, can´t see you. And if that doesn´t work we´ll turn off your video to us and we´ll just listen to your audio but this might help, that takes some of the bandwidth off.

Paul: So if I pick my nose, you won´t see right?

Leo: No, we still see you! Please, please. Put your pants back on. Okay, so I was noticing in the rundown though that they´ve kind of talked about what Xbox Windows 10 might look like. I am intrigued by that.

Daniel: Well there´s still way more questions about that then there were answers. I would say in fact a lot of the talk I was given at GDC was more, um, almost philosophical about what Windows 10 is going to be on Xbox. They didn´t actually show it, there was no, like, we still don´t know what it´s actually going to look like, if it´s going to be like, desktop OS on my Xbox which I kind of doubt. You know, these questions about how it´s going to update and can you run apps that are on your desktop on there, like a lot of this stuff still needs to be teased and figured out, and between Build and E3, obviously they have their road map you know plan, even copy text I heard they´re going to be out there, they have a road map of when they´re going to be releasing this stuff. Paul if you want to talk about some of the Xbox stuff because I know you´re a pretty big.

Paul: I just, to speculate on the questions you just raised, I would imagine that Xbox One with Windows 10 looks like Xbox One, just like Windows Phone with Windows 10 kind of looks like Windows Phone. I don´t think it´s going to be a duplicate of what we see on the desktop. But I think the things that it will enable, you know, DirectX 12 gaming, cross platform play, game streaming and the possibility, well not the possibility, but the ability to run universal apps that will work on Windows and the phone and the Xbox is very exciting. It doesn´t mean that every single app will just kind of happen, but I think we´re going to see, you know, more apps on the platform because of this.

Leo: Well I can tell you right now, I mean, we were debating whether we should do a Windows Phone app if we do an app, we´re thinking of doing official apps for Twit. We´re going to do iOS for sure, we´re going to do Android for sure, and we´re debating should we do a Windows Phone app? But the prospect of a universal app makes it much, much more appealing. And wasn´t just for the desktop, it´s for Xbox, that´s really, that would, by itself, justify doing this. So, it´s of great interest to us, it would be so nice if there were kind of seamless integration on the Xbox. If I have to go into a Window 10 mode, that´s not going to be great.

Daniel: Yeah, it´s going to be very much like what Paul said, would be a universal app, you download it, you can pin it to your start screen and then launch it. It´ll just be like running a full screen modern app.

Leo: Oh good. So that´s what we´re thinking, I think we talked about this last week, we get a Xaml programmer, we do a modern app and then that would run cross platform, which would be great.

Paul: Yeah, you know, the big, well there´s a bunch of steps that have to come but obviously we keep talking about Build because that´s the developers show but I think a big chunk of answers will come there. And of course E3 might be a logical place for Microsoft to show off, you know Xbox type stuff, on Xbox. But I think another big part of this push is Xbox on Windows right? Which is something they´ve had for a while but in real half-assed form and I distinctly remember the 2 big pushes that Microsoft made with Xbox on Windows, one was with Windows Vista because they knew that was going to bomb, they released Halo 2 on Windows Vista, and the other one was Gears of War, the first Gears of War game which actually had an additional level or whatever on Windows for whatever reason. You know aside from that, it´s been pretty tepid on the Windows side, and so honestly, I mean Xbox on Windows in some ways will be better than it is on the console maybe as a payback because PCs are more complex, you know you won´t have to pay for an Xbox live gold subscription to do a lot of the multiplayer stuff or whatever. But I think that the cross platform stuff is interesting, there don´t appear to be any rules with that, I mean it´s up to the game maker. Someone like Activision probably is not going to enable cross platform playing Call of Duty because it doesn´t make sense, but if you make a more casual game where it doesn´t matter or you can make a game where you require the Windows player to be using a game controller let´s say, instead of a keyboard or the mouse, I think this might open it up in interesting new ways.

Daniel: And you´re leaving a lot to the developer, so if a developer writes a game and they want it to run on Phone and PC they can basically choose to do that, so, just because you create the game doesn´t mean that it´s automatically going to go to those types of devices, it´s still up to the developer to go you know I don´t want my game on a Phone, I don´t want that small screen.

Paul: Yeah and it´s not forced on them either, which I think that´s a big thing. You know you don´t have to, you know this is how we´re going to get Windows Phone out there, we´re going to force developers to write Windows phone apps. It´s not like that.

Daniel: And they open up Xbox live right? They have that SDK now, and that´s how she sort of a thing that, this is a problem that´s been out for a long time now. All we´ve ever done on Windows Central is talk about the problems with Xbox live and developers, publishers getting their apps certified through the system, it´s just not worth it for them. An so you´ve seen games that were Xbox live on Windows phone that dropped the certification because they´re like, you know what, we just want to update our game and we can´t even update it.

Paul: It´s just so terrible.

Daniel: Yeah, and that´s why we saw such a slow buildup of Xbox live games on Windows Phone, it was just, the process was a nightmare and developers had nothing but terrible things to say about it. Now they´re opening it up as an SDK, I mean, it´s like anybody can jump in on this, you can just create your game.

Leo: Exactly. I mean, that´s us! I do not want to go through the certification process, we talked to Rob Greenlee when he was still at Microsoft in the broadcast division he said, that´s going to be about a $100,000 dollars by the end of the day. Here´s one of our certified developers, you could do it on your own, good luck. Now, you know, I´m thrilled. I´m really thrilled.

Daniel: Yeah the id Xbox program for independent developers and if they can get Xbox live achievements, I mean that´s just going to be like, people love achievements right? so, it´s just like, I don´t actually think they´ll get achievements but the people who do.

Leo: You´ve listened to a hundred Windows Weekly episodes, you´re a Windows weekly champion, I love that idea!

Paul: I firmly believe there needs to be achievements in Windows, that would be so awesome.

Daniel: Yeah, well, I mean, you know, we´ll talk about later with beers, untapped. Untappd has achievements. yeah, I don´t know, I find it like, it´s hilarious when you get that achievement, although it reminds you maybe you´re drinking too much, it´s fun.

Paul: I was with Mary Jo in New York a couple of weeks ago and I got an achievement from untapped. She was actually kind of incensed by this. I said, you have every achievement you can get you know, you got to leave some for the little guys.

Leo: I´m a much bigger drunk than you are Paul. Alright let´s take a break, Daniel Rubino´s here filling in for Mary Jo who is having a great time in Vietnam, you can tell by her Sway, if you go to you can see those from Vietnam and Cambodia and thank you for being here Daniel from Windows Phone central , Paul Thurrott is in Fort Collins, he´s just checking the atomic clock to make sure it´s on time. I get a sore throat just looking at you Paul, I got to tell you. Don´t you? It´s like, you´re like the Contact commercial. Does it hurt to have a temperature Paul?

Paul: I´m the monkey from Contact or from whatever.

Leo: Contagion or uh, not Contagion, the Andromeda strain, or the 12 monkeys, I don´t know, there´s a lot of monkeys, lot of dangerous monkeys out there.

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Back we go, to sneeze fest at Fort Collins, Paul Thurrott, he is.

Paul: Yeah, we buried the lead, Leo. There´s a new Chromebook pixel out today.

Leo: We spent an hour talking about it on Twig earlier today, I ordered one.

Paul: That´s an expensive browser.

Leo_ $999 dollars

Paul: Not as expensive as lots.

Leo: Yeah, and it´s got i5, they do offer an i7, why you´d want an i7 with Chrome OS? I don´t know but, they, Google said at one point that 85% were owned by employees. So really I think the reason they put this powerful stuff in, you know 8 gigs of ram because they´re running Linux on it really. For executives. They sell well at schools, Microsoft loves that kind of sell through in schools.

Daniel: That´s why Google made that one right. It was richer because the executives wanted a nice Chromebook to carry around.

Leo: Yeah, instead of a cheap, plasticky one, I agree. Uh, there´s a new Macbook too you know, by the way.

Daniel: I heard something about that.

Leo: And a new watch, we´ll talk about that. It´s got to grape Windows guys a little bit that Apple gets all that attention for like, they own the news cycle for a week, right?

Paul: It´s not just that they own the news cycle, it´s like the fawning the get, you know. It´s like, HBO shows the Game of Thrones, (Roar), like it has a band (roar), Well yeah, it´s a watch.

Daniel: We talked a little bit about this on Twitter, Paul, with just how some people in the media just, uh, I´m going to say sugarcoat things, but there´s like, there´s a lot of compromises coming with the new Macbook, and I´m actually not like, even hating on that stuff like I get what Apple´s doing.

Paul: No, but the people accepting of it. It´s like you don´t understand you´re setting the agenda for the future. It´s like, no you don´t understand, I live in today.

Leo: Let´s talk about that, because that´s probably the most controversial thing, there´s only one connector on here, it does multiple duty, not just triple duty, it´s a power connector, it’s a USB data connector, it´s a charger, in and out, it´s a video, it´s a, I don´t know what else, everything.

Paul: It actually is none of those things by itself, the only thing it can do by itself is power the machine, you know you need a cable or something to connect, or an adaptor.

Leo: Well they make USBs, this is a , well for one thing, and I would think you guys would applaud this, this is the first time that I, in living memory, that Apple has used a standard for its power adaptor, that´s never happened before. And it doesn´t happen in the pc world either, I would love to see, look what we´ve gained, look what we´ve gained in phones by having micro USB everywhere right?

Paul: But Apple didn´t do that right? So, there are Windows PCs today that use USB for power by the way.

Leo: Are there?

Paul: Yeah, mostly tablets.

Daniel: Sure, Lenovo´s.

Paul: They were first to USB-c.

Leo: So this USB type c, we´re going to see on, I mean we already seeing them on Windows machines, we´re going to see this everywhere? Is this the new thing?

Paul: I think so, actually I would be surprised if they didn´t put this on their phones, they should replace the lightning adaptor.

Leo: I agree.

Paul: Why not just have one cable that does everything?

Daniel: It´s good for the industry, I mean I´m really psyched about having a standard for all the stuff, the problem of course with this device is that it´s the only, there´s one plug and that´s it. Even on, like, Samsung has their new, what´s it called? The ATIV book 9, which I almost ordered and I´m going to get one real soon. It´s basically the same device as the Macbook, it has the same core processor in it, it´s got a 12. 2 inch screen, it´s actually higher resolution but non touch as well. But they ended up putting in 2 USB 3.0 ports on it and a I think micro or mini HDMI out, on top of the Kensington and stuff, so that´s still all on there.

Paul: That´s actually what bothers me about the Apple, you can fit those things on there.

Leo: Well okay, but let me just pose the opposite point of view, I just think about, maybe you could tell me, I mean certainly there are plenty of people who need all those connectors, but generally when I´m using my laptop, I don´t connect it to anything, it´s a stand-alone device.

Paul: You know what? This is like, um, this is like the argument for Windows 8 versus Windows RT, you know you´re saying, I want the reliability of Windows RT, I don´t want to run desktop applications, I don´t need this, blah, blah, blah, except when you do. You know for that one moment when someone hands you a USD stick it says just copy the file over, and you´re duh, like, there´s an easy fix for the solution which is don´t be so hard lined about everything. One of the old and one of the new. You don´t have to go kicking and screaming into the future.

Leo: This is Apple, remember when they took the floppy out of the iMac? And everybody said well how are you going to compute without a floppy drive? This is Apple, that´s how they do things, they cut, they go boom you´re dead, you´re dead to me.

Paul: The flip side of that is the number one selling peripheral for the iMac was a USB floppy drive.

Leo: Initially, I agree.

Paul: I guess what I´m saying is, the excuse that it´s Apple is not like a reason, you now, Jobs is gone, can we be a little more reasonable as we go to the future?

Leo: They still make their other laptops, if you want connectors you can get an air, you can get a Macbook pro, it´s not they´ve killed, it´s not that they´ve said as they did with the iMac we´re not going to make machines with floppies anymore, there´s plenty of choice, but there are people, I think there are people who, I look at my Acer S7, I chose it because it was so thin and light. And I don´t think I´ve ever connected anything on to it, except a power cord.

Paul: I guess what I´m saying is.

Leo: It´s just one slice of the market.

Paul: Yeah, that doesn´t have to be the level of compromise that this thing has. I think the other shocking thing to me is, I think everyone expected when Apple came out with a Core M machine that this thing was going to get like 25 hours of battery life.

Leo: It´s only nine, I know, that´s a little.

Paul: Right, and Daniel knows this because he´s tested. It´s kind of surprising on the Windows side how Core M machines actually typically don´t have amazing battery life compared to a core I , whatever. So you sacrifice performance, obviously there´s no fan noise which I think is important to some people, but you don´t gain any, I mean, when you talk about portability, I mean the smallness of it is fine, the thinness is nice, you know the weight obviously great, battery life, uh, you know.

Leo: Apple does sell a $79 dollar dongle, which everybody will buy, that adds power, another type c connector, a standard USB 3 connector and an HDMI adaptor.

Paul: Yeah, and what that thing is, that they started selling for the

Leo: Of course they should´ve put, right, or the flop, as you said, the USB floppy, that´s going to be the.

Paul: Except that they´re selling it this time.

Daniel: But people pointed out that it´s not that different when you buy a Surface, you have to buy the keyboard, you know, and that´s an extra cost too. You know it is kind of funny how basically companies pull out features and then sell them back, like a separate product.

Paul: You´re putting me in the weird position of defending Surface. Surface, the Surface keyboards are different colors so you can choose at the time of purchase to buy some color, but you can also choose at any time to replace it or augment with it with different colors if you have some kind of mood thing going on. I mean, no, I´m just saying, personally, that doesn´t, I don´t care, you know, myself. But I do think that that kind of aspect of that stuff, is interesting to people. So, I would say to anyone who´s looking at a Surface, you got to tackle a $130 bucks on whatever price you see.

Leo: The price is not really the price, yeah. The advantage you get is that they´re interchangeable now.

Paul: Yeah, I mean, that´s nice.

Leo: What about this M processor, this is a Broadwell, it´s a Broadwell Y. Are there PCs with Broadwell Y out there?

Daniel: Yoga 3 pro

Leo: So what kind of battery life is a Yoga 3 pro?

Daniel: So this is controversial, when they first announced it, they were claiming I think 10, 11 hours, something ridiculous. And then I got one, a lot of people got one and if it pushed 6 hours I would have been happy with it, and then now.

Paul: I´m sorry to interrupt you Daniel, that was the worst thing that happened to Lenovo this year by far.

Leo: No, it was not. Okay, even I know that´s not true. So, well that´s the same thing that happened to Dell XPs 13 isn´t it Daniel? They claimed 15 hours.

Daniel: Well, that´s a little bit more controversial, if you look at Nantech they reviewed it and they did the 2 versions, the core I 5.1 with touch screen and one with the Quad HD touch and they actually got 15 hours out of the non-touch version, and their batter life, they compared it to, at least their tests are very consistent and then they compared it to the Macs and other PCs out there, and they said no, it actually does perform that well. I just think it´s, um, real world stuff is going to be a little bit different of course you know how actually people use it. I can easily, in real world, push my computer, get 10 hours out of the non-touch version.

Leo: But you have the non-touch version right?

Daniel: Well I have both.

Paul: By the way, what you just said is very interesting because that´s sort of what I was hinting at with the Mac. You have that choice, In other words, you can say I don´t want touch because the battery life is more important to me, you know. I think that kind of choice is important you know just like throughout this thing.

Leo: No, we don´t have any choice. There´s no touch choice in the Mac world.

Paul: It doesn´t have to be touch, there are other choices.

Daniel: Resolution, yeah, you know.

Leo: That´s 576 I think, dots per inch, but it´s a 12 inch.

Paul: Whatever it is, so, people, I don´t, this drives me crazy, but I have a Macbook air 13 inch, the most recent version, granted it´s 1440 by 900 I think is the resolution. A lot of people would say it´s unacceptably low res, but I got to be honest, the productivity tests that I do on that thing, it´s fine. And this is what I mean by choice, they should offer a 1440 x 900 version of that machine, and that would be the one I would choose because that thing would get significantly better battery life, yeah.

Daniel: I don´t think that the Yoga 3, that has a ridiculously high resolution display, and it´s gorgeous but you know that´s also going to kill the battery and so. But I agree, I think Dell what they did with the XPS line, the 13, you know I complimented them big on it, that choice between an I3, I5, I7, different ram configurations, different memory.

Leo: Yeah, but Apple´s never done anything like that, that´s not Apple. Ever since the days of Gil Amelio ended Apple doesn´t do choice.

Daniel: Or except for one though, the watch.

Leo: The watch you have 20 models.

Paul: it´s worse than that, I´m sorry to say this but I just figured it out the other day, I guess yesterday. Every version of the Apple watch, and by version I mean there are 3 product lines but then there are multiple models.

Leo: 2 sizes within each and then many, many, many, bands and so forth.

Paul: Here´s the thing, it´s worse than you think, those bands come in different versions for the different size watches, the bands are not interchangeable. Oh my God! How are they going to do that?

Leo: Well, the watch business is a different business let´s face it.

Paul: This is a crazy product line, remember when Steve Jobs used to get up on stage and show 4 items, we sell this, we sell this and we sell these 2 things. Now it´s like, you know it´s like a graphic of the universe, reach little stars across.

Leo: Worse than that if you´re a developer it turns out the resolution screen is different on the 38 millimeter and the 42 millimeter. Slightly, but enough that you have to do different versions.

Daniel: Also going back to the Core M, it was interesting when I was talking to Dell about when they announced about that device and what they were anticipating with Apple, and what they were saying, they were predicting that their new laptop was going to be a Core M, they said it was going to be about 2 pounds, they had it pretty figured out what they were going to do. But Dell purposely chose the Core I5 route and I7 and doing that whole thing with the high res screens because they said they wanted that extra power and they thought that they could put this new display, where battery savings comes a lot from the new Dell, that´s actually in the display it´s a new technology. And you now, um, for Dell.

Paul: Where it refreshes only parts of the screen.

Daniel: Yeah, I think, something like that. Something with Sharp. It´s Sharps technology, so you know, for Dell they could´ve made this a Core M device, super thin, 2 pounds as well, and that´s sort of what Samsung is doing with this Ativ 9 book, it´s a Core M, same thing it weighs 2.1 pounds, it´s exactly like the new Mac, it just has more ports.

Paul: And 13 inch screen too.

Daniel: Yeah, and so, know Dell purposely decided, because running a Core I5 which is the Core M, it is a big difference, it´s a big difference comparatively. Now it´s another question if you just use that device by itself I think it´s actually probably fine, you know with productivity you know, and word and stuff like that, email and stuff it´s probably fine. But you´re not going to, you know, Chrome browser with YouTube gets a little, a little shaky.

Paul: Windows set up brings this thing to its knees, I mean, the worst experience you have with it is the time you take it out of the box, you know, there is something weird about it, I mean once it´s up and running, it´s good.

Leo: So this is good to know for those of us who are interested in this Macbook, it´s not a very fast chip it sounds like.

Daniel: No, no. I mean it´s a work in progress but it´s an interesting category, I´m curious to see how they´ll position it and how people react to it, but so far I´m just more disappointed, I could take slower performance, I´m fine with that but give me like ridiculous battery life, give me like, if it had 15 hours battery life, okay, that´ll make sense to me.

Leo: It´s got to be a tradeoff.

Paul: Honestly when this thing was, when they first mentioned it, it said Macbook and I thought from here it could go 1 of 2 ways. They´re literally resurrecting the Macbook brand, which used to be their low end laptop, or at some point they´re going to you know, fly in like a new word, you know, Nano or Neon, okay. But once it became clear that this thing was a Macbook, not a Macbook air, not a Macbook pro, I thought well the pricing is going to have to be lower than the Macbook Air.

Leo: No, no, no.

Paul: Well that´s what´s make this thing weird.

Daniel: Core M’s aren´t cheap.

Paul: What they should´ve done is gone Retina on the Airs and made this thing low res. And they should´ve made it you know, $899 and they could´ve bumped up the price. I mean, that would´ve been, I mean it would´ve been, it will probably do fine anyway, Apple people love this stuff.

Leo: You know there´s an Asus that´s almost identical, this is the Zenbook UX305, it´s maybe 1 millimeter thicker, it´s about half a pound heavier, of course it has connectors, probably no fans, retina display, I don´t know if it´s an M, let me see. Um, it´s USB 3, oh but not 3 type C maybe not type C, and it´s a lot cheaper of course, it´s a Centrino? Is that the same as the M? No.

Daniel: That´s the fine thing about the Core Ms. The Core Ms by chip aren´t necessarily cheaper than the Core I series, not now. And so what you´re really getting with the Core Ms is it´s a smaller board and that´s why you´re getting this ridiculously thin laptops and that´s sort of the angle all, that´s what the Yoga 3 pro is, it´s just ridiculously thin. The Samsung Ativ 9 is actually I think it´s 11 millimeters thin versus 13 of this new Macbook, so it´s actually even thinner. It´s been around for a while now, it´s not just Apple doing it.

Paul: Really because I was reading the press and I´m pretty sure.

Leo: It feels like the first time anybody´s ever done this.

Paul: Yep, the first, first, first.

Leo: Haptic trackpads are not new either are they? The little buzzy.

Paul: The feedback thing. Yeah, I don´t know. The funny thing about that loss of it, when you read the hands on with people, there were, a lot of people were hesitant, oh it´s different, it´s kind of weird, it´ll take some time to get used to, same thing with the keyboard.

Paul: One of the little stats Apple didn´t throw up on the screen and I don´t believe is in their little specs pages, what´s the throw on the keys? You know, I´m guessing it´s not as good as the.

Leo: It´s pretty short I would guess.

Paul: So I don´t think anyone has ever walked up to a Macbook air or pro keyboard and wiggled the key and thought, man, if I could fix anything on this keyboard, you know, I´d make it less throw and the wiggle, it´s like a non-existing problem.

Daniel: And it´s fine, you know, I get this right, we´re talking about the Acer S7 that too had very little key travel on it.

Leo: The first generation keyboard was terrible, frankly, very hard to type on.

Daniel: I got used to it, I had no issues with that.

Leo: They fixed it in the Haswell version.

Daniel: I get used to the argument that, like, you get used to it. It´s not that bad you know, that kind of thing. I just wish that the reviewers were as kind to, like they say on surface pro 3 too, oh the keyboards terrible, a lot of it is just getting used to it and once you do it´s actually pretty good. But Apple, you know, people are just like, no, it´s weird, but you´ll get used to it after a while you know.

Paul: What´s the phrase they have? For when, you know, you´re testing something scientifically, out in the wild, just by testing something you´ve changed it. Yeah, so there´s a part of that that goes into reviewing devices which is this. If you review 12, 15, 20 devices a year, you´re not using any devices, you´re just testing devices, so one of the things that it´s important to keep in mind is that most people buys a device and use it for years, and so, it might be a little weird to use the keyboard for 15 minutes but they use that keyboard or that trackpad or that device whatever it is, for years. So to them it´s just, you know, it becomes the way it is, you get used to it. And that´s something a lot of reviewers never experience because they´re moving along to the next thing all the time.

Leo: Right. Ah, pec Tuesday was yesterday, um, a couple of critical bugs in Explorer.

Paul: I just wanted to mention this because the freak vulnerability was fixed, as was stocks net, by the way, you might´ve though that was fixed. Microsoft contends that this is in fact a different bug but security researchers all around the world all agree it´s the same one. And there were some Windows 10 stuff and then of course they issued some firmware updates for Surface which they haven´t done in a few months, just one each on Surface RT the first one and then Surface pro 3. And then they answered that most burning question we all had which was, they just introduced the Surface Hub hardware, but that have a Surface Hub app, how are they going to handle this? They rename the Surface Hub app to Surface, so, all that stuff happened.

Leo: All that happened.

Daniel: Although and also with the firmware update with the Surface, it had something to do with the pen functionality, but I think they´re laying the groundwork, I think what´s going to happen is that Surface app now in the store will get an update and it´s going to enable some feature with the pen that isn´t there, that´s typically how these things go, we don´t know what those are, it´ll be kind of curious.

Paul: Yeah like the app could be updated with some new functionality for the pen now or whatever.

Daniel: Could you imagine what a Surface pro 4 might look like?

Paul: A lot like a Surface pro 3.

Leo: That would be pretty soon, wouldn´t it? Like maybe with Windows 10 in the fall?

Daniel: You would think that would be perfect timing. I couldn´t imagine them not doing something like that because they´re going to do Windows 10, they want a big device to launch with it and you know you got to give the Surface team some credit here, well I give them a lot of credit, with each generation and specially with version 3, they´ve really started hitting their strive now with what people want, what works. So I´m really curious to see what comes with 4 because I think whatever drawbacks 3 had, they´re pretty addicted in fixing those things.

Paul: Out of USB port, modern processor platform that would be very obvious changes, right?

Leo: But form factor mostly the same right?

Paul: I would think so.

Leo: It´s got a great screen, nothing to change there, They´re not going to make it bigger or smaller. It could be thinner, Why don´t you replace the USB with type C connectors and make it thinner? Or add it, right. I want to see type C everywhere.

Paul: How about replacing the power with USB-C?

Leo: Now there is, I don´t know what the limit is, but there is a limit to how much you can power with a type C connector.

Paul: So maybe I couldn´t do like an I5.

Leo: You may not be able to do a big juicy you know, 25 watt.

Paul: What about a Core M based Surface that´s like a non pro Surface.

Leo: Aaaahhh.

Paul: A Surface M as it were.

Leo: That´s interesting, I would buy that.

Daniel: Surface lite

Leo: Yeah.

Paul: But only if it gets like 20 hours of power life. I don´t know how they´re going to fix that.

Leo: Let me just see, I´m looking to see what the power rating is for USB-c. Is it 3 amps? So we go up to 15 watts. It´s hard, I´m reading specs. It´s hard to figure this out, but, I´ll keep looking. While I´m looking let´s talk about the biggest news to hit Apple all week.

Paul: Huh?

Leo: Office 2016, as a preview, a beta preview right now. You don´t even have to pay for it right? You don´t even have to be a subscriber right?

Paul: Yeah, I get free Office for a little while, I´m really only using word and so that´s all I can speak to. I don´t know if Daniel, if you have a Mac or whatever to test this on. The testing I´ve done, first you look at what commands are there, whether it matches the Windows version.

Leo: It looks a lot like the Windows version I would say.

Paul: Which I think is smart you know. I noticed some default style differences between the 2, you know the default document, which I think is actually a huge problem, which I hope they fix but, honestly I´ve always thought that Office for Mac was terrible and very confusing user interface, mix, mismatch of ideas all over the place, you know, stack toolbars, ribbons and Mac UIs and stuff. I think this new, at least Word especially, I think it looks clean, it´s nice.

Leo: It´s reconciling with 2 versions, I think, yeah. I don´t know enough about Office to be able to say whether it´s a preview of something that might be coming in Office for Windows, it looks pretty much like Office for Windows.

Paul: Honestly I, maybe I´m missing something, but I haven´t seen any major new functionality that´s not in at least Word 2013.

Daniel: Well I´m running Office 2016 preview whatever that is, and it looks very much like the current Office, you get the dark background now, which is awesome.

Leo: Specs on USB type C by the way, 2 channels, I didn´t realize this, 2 channels of 10 gigabit USB data, so, it´s pretty darn fast and it does support up to 100 watts, 100 watts of power, so that´s enough for any laptop. So you could do a Pro, I don´t know what the pro is but it can´t be more than a hundred, 100 watts.

Paul: Right.

Leo: I´m surprised to read that frankly. That´s pretty powerful.

Paul: They´ve thought of everything.

Leo: They´ve thought of everything, Um, don´t know what to say about Office 2016 except you can go get it right now if you´re a Macintosh user and there you have it.

Paul: It was a big deal last week, this week, eeh.

Leo: Yeah, whatever. Did you get some audible books for your trip?

Paul: i did.

Leo: Good, because guess what? There´s an audible add, right now. Audible is the place for your audio books, more than 150,000 titles. I´ll tell you the book I can´t wait to get, you have read and we both have read a number of Erik Larson like the devil.

Paul: Oh, that´s my pick!

Leo: Is it? Oh, good! I´m excited about this, he has a new one on the Lusitania.

Paul: Yeah Dead Wake, which sounds like the name of a B level horror movie, and maybe for all I know, and yeah, it´s, you know what, the thing that bugged me about this book is they didn´t put the preview of the audio up early, so I would´ve preordered it but I couldn´t.

Leo: It´s Scott Brick who is really a great narrator.

Paul: Kind of a classic audible narrator, it´s good. Yeah, I listened to it on the plane, between passing out.

Leo: Did you? This is Scott Brick. Erik Larson who wrote the story of the Devil in the White City, is that what it´s called? He´s good. I love his stuff.

Paul: And the World War 2

Leo: Yeah you recommended that one, I haven´t read that yet. The Garden of Beasts, it´s called. So what he specializes in is going back and shining a light on little known, you know the truth of historical matter. Everyone knows the German sank Lusitania in 1915, it got the United States into World War I but there´s a lot more to this than we´ve read about in the history books.

Paul: And there´s a lot of stuff that people think they know about it that´s not true.

Leo: Well I found the Churchill stuff fascinating and I haven´t read the book yet. I´ve just read reviews of it, but I cannot wait to read this.

Paul: Yep, it´s good.

Leo: They had broken the German code, much like the enigma in World War 2, they had broken the German code and knew that the U boat, yeah, they knew that the U boat was headed.

Paul: It was not sophisticated.

Leo: Well anyway, the point is that Audible has great stuff and if you are flying or if you are driving, or if you´re doing your workout in the morning, on the treadmill I love audible, this is a great way to pass the time, to pump some information into your head or entertainment. Fiction, non-fiction, all the big new ones come out on Audible so you´ll never miss your favorite author.

Paul: Oh!

Leo: What? He´s browsing through Audible, this happens every time, if you´re an Audible subscriber that is the sound, you recognize that sound, oh! I want to listen to that one.

Paul: I´ll put that down.

Leo: What did you find? Something good?

Paul: I´m going to hold on to that one.

Leo: Yeah, save it. He´s holding out on us. Um, I am very excited about Audible and I´m really thrilled they´ve been with us almost since the beginning, if you´re not an Audible subscriber you ought to be, we´ve got of course a deal for you. If you visit, ooh David McCullough´s got a new one on the Wright Brothers, is that new? Maybe not. I love David McCullough, oh yes it´s not out yet, it´s the preorder. His John Addams was fantastic! Fantastic! I love history on Audible but I love sci-fi too. Get your first book free, go to You'll be signing up for the Gold Plan, a book per month. Your first month is free though, and you'll also get The Daily Digest, New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal. I think a lot of audible subscribers forget about that. Command Line Kung Fu, oh that can't be good in audio... Bash scripting tricks. What? What? People sometimes say, why aren't there more computer books on Audible?

Paul: That's why.

Leo: I have to hear this.

Command Line Kung Fu: Repeat the last command that started with the given string. This is another example of an event designator. To recall the most recent command that begins with a particular string-

Leo: They have Java Script programming, Python programming for beginners. What? This is new, they did not used to do this. And they do have the gray courses, which is great.

Paul: Leo, you know what this means...?

Leo: What?

Paul: They'll have Super Bible in Audible.

Leo: I want to hear it.

Paul: You really don't.

Daniel: Kudos to the narrators, for working their way through.

Leo: I'm surprised they haven't approached me. They have approached me for technical books that they want well-read but I haven't had any programming books yet. Actually if you want to learn as you're driving down the road and you can't read, you can listen to Audible. Get your first month free, first 30 days are free, cancel any day during that time you keep the book but-

Paul: Do they actually read the source codes?

Leo: Well they have to., you're going to love it. I actually saw an interesting story and we talked about it on TWiG, that Google is going to work with Microsoft on TypeScript for angular 2.

Paul: You know what else they're going to use, Leo? Most pointer events, suck it Google. It's become accepted as a standard or whatever.

Leo: I love it. Somebody comes up with something that's good we should all use it. I don't know what you're going to come up with on that tissue but I don't want to-

Paul: Let's see how high resolution the screen is.

Leo: All yours. Windows phone, any news? I think everybody has Denim now, right?

Daniel: AT&T.

Leo: AT&T has Denim.

Daniel: No.

Leo: No? I got it on my 1520.

Daniel: Right that's the only one.

Leo: Aw man.

Daniel: Even E30 doesn't have...

Paul: I know, it's unbelievable. AT&T is hell bent on proving that they can beat Verizon at everything. And as it turns out, they can.

Daniel: They used to be really good with this stuff but now Verizon actually has Denim on all of their devices. I was going to say on Samsung but they have 8.1.1/

Paul: Does the 820 have it or-

Daniel: 822.

Leo: You know what is updated on the Windows phone? The Audible app, we were complaining about that last week. I'm so excited. Is it beta still or is it updated?

Daniel: It's still beta although it was updated again today. And usually betas in this case, they were up front with beta testing and they said, we actually have a new version that works, it's going to be awesome. And then someone found a link to the app. Usually these are private betas but this one is open. Anyone can just download and use it. I don't know if that's going to change once this gets out but you can just go get it now. Paul you probably use it more than I do.

Paul: I love it. Here's what I love about it, when I press play, audio plays. It's nice and is a nice looking app.

Leo: You have an article on it but can probably go to windows central and find out more. Is there a way to search for it so you don't find the old Audible app?

Paul: Yeah, you've got to go to the link. If you search for Audible Beta in the store you can't find it.

Leo: So of course, if you set this up from your Windows phone you can do that from your web as I'm going to do right now.

Paul: By the way, you go to the web, you find an app for Windows phone, you've logged in to your account and selected the one you want to install you click install and it works for a little while and then they say, we're sorry something happened. That's okay we'll send you an email and you can install from there. Has anyone ever successfully solved an app problem like this for Windows phone?

Leo: Really? It doesn't work?

Paul: It's never worked for me, ever.

Daniel: I've had it work, but it's been a while. I don't use that method anymore because I have the limit, like 4 or 5 phones always installed and so you have to go and select the phone. I should try it again, it's been kind of hit and miss.

Leo: I think it works.

Paul: I haven't gotten it to work.

Leo: It must have worked. If I had my 1520 here I would show you. Contacting your phone...

Paul: Here's where it fails, Leo.

Leo: Oh, it says Congratulations.

Paul: Really? I wonder if it's the number of phones thing.

Leo: It must be because I have one and only one Windows phone. I don't have the 1520 to confirm but I'll tell you when I get home tonight.

Daniel: Some companies are still making apps for Windows phones so it's not all-

Leo: Yeah, this bugs me. Major league baseball decided not to do At Bat this year.

Daniel: Yeah, this came from a customer service interaction that came from a customer who was asking- So we used to get the Major league baseball app At Bat but it used to always come late to Windows phone but at least we got it. And now this year they're not going to do it. Maybe the rep was wrong on this but I saw the email and they were pretty specific that they weren't going to do it this year.

Leo: Now you can use the web right, for some of this...

Daniel: Right.

Leo: That's a bummer. That's really a bummer, I pay for that every year to hear the audio and all of that stuff.

Daniel: It's a general thing with all of the sports apps for Windows phone, all the major ones, it seems to be sort of an ongoing problem so...

Leo: First Banks, now Baseball. What's next Apple pie and Chevrolet?

Paul: No apple pie for you.

Leo: No apple pie for the Windows phone crowd.

Daniel: The funny thing is though, I do hear about quite a few companies having apps commissioned out for Windows phone that will be coming out in the next couple of months.

Leo: As I said, in the universal changes- We haven't decided against it, but it's a tough debate. It's expensive to make an app, it's a small market, I said we have to do it because of Windows Weekly but the debate went away with Universal. Because now I'm hoping to be able to write one Metro app that will work everywhere.

Daniel: And that's going to be the real story for us over the next year and a half, to see does that message resonate. My issue, is companies like Bank of America, who literally today killed their app. If you had it on the phone it stopped working. So you're the company that's not waiting for Windows 10, they're not saying oh yeah- Because otherwise, they would have left their stuff working for a couple of more months. They basically pulled their support-

Leo: That's bizarre. But I guess, for security reasons they can if they're not going to update it. Chase is going to continue to use theirs right?

Daniel: Yeah, Chase is not supporting the app anymore but if you have it you can still use it. They're not changing that, but there is that issue with security and legality and maintaining that stuff but I guess what wows me with this Bank of America thing is like, it's gone. Packed up and went home. In order to get to Windows 10 that whole process will have to start back over. They have to hire developers, Microsoft will probably have to get involved to try to persuade them, pay some bills, and then the certification. But that's a potential long wait until that comes again. But I don't know if you've written about this but the web app stuff that's coming in Windows 10- So there are web apps coming in Windows 10, which on the face of it sucks. But these web apps are going to have a deeper interaction with the operating system to where you can actually tie into the notifications. You can use the camera if you want to and you can actually access the hardware so it's not just a shell wrapped around the app that's hiding the webpage, these are sort of web app plus I would say. And I think that's going to be one area where you see a sort of compromise where Bank of America may go, you know what we aren't going to do a full native app or a universal thing but we'll do this web app stuff you know...

Leo: It's better than nothing.

Daniel: Exactly.

Leo: Somebody in the chat room says, maybe Chase is thinking we'll do a universal app we're just not ready to announce it so let's not kill the back end yet.

Paul: You people are so positive it's hilarious.

Daniel: Every time an app gets pulled, we always get the conspiracy people who are just like maybe they pulled it because they're going to release a new version.

Leo: It's not dead yet!

Daniel: Yeah it's like there's no reason for a company to pull an old app only to release a new version. They could just update the-

Paul: I know, I love the positivity, I do. I just don't have it in me.

Daniel: When companies pulled the third party, like when they go after the third parties, they're like, yeah they pulled those because their app is coming. And I'm like I would love to believe that but sometimes companies are just forcing their way-

Leo: Yeah, but according to Paul Thurrott we're huge in Italy.

Daniel: Well Italy has actually gone down quite a bit.

Paul: We're still pretty big.

Leo: 17% market share in Italy.

Paul: We're pretty close to iPhone. That's almost iPhone.

Leo: Yeah but Android is 67%.

Paul: No I get it but it's almost iPhone.

Leo: IPhone, it's actually besting iPhone in 2014.

Paul: I pledged on Twitter, after the kids move out of the house my wife and I plan to move around more, kind of like what Mike Elgan did for a while.

Leo: Oh good, when is that going to be?

Paul: Forever from now. So I'm sure communications will be better by the time my daughter gets out of school. Anyway, I'm just going to live in whatever country and Europe has the biggest Windows phone market share and I'll just move quarterly to accommodate whatever changes there.

Leo: Well I think some time in Italy is indicated. It would only be followed by Russia, but okay.

Paul: Someone said, I hope you're interested in living in India.

Daniel: No one knows the penetration, I think, in India. We just know it's high because India is just too chaotic to measure actual sales on market penetration. But yeah, Italy does pretty well, France does pretty well.

Leo: How much of that is the Nokia brand though?

Paul: It's 95% I would imagine.

Daniel: Yeah, but like if you look at ad duplex numbers like the Lumia 535 is a good example of a non-Nokia phone and it's a Microsoft brand phone.

Paul: That's right I wasn't including Lumia. Yeah, I didn't think of Lumia.

Leo: Well I was saying Nokia because of their brand recognition in these countries.

Daniel: Right, and that's what the theory was that in those countries when Microsoft stamped their name on it this stuff was going to tank and if you look at the Lumia 535 it's been quickly racing up the charts, it's going to challenge the 520 and it's a good device so there's no reason why it wouldn't. But it doesn't seem to have much to do with the naming stuff anymore so I think that was hogwash but-

Leo: Well that's a relief. Now, I've seen some people raving online saying, forget the Apple watch, the best band out there is the Microsoft brand watch and it's going to beat the Apple watch.

Daniel: If you could just buy one.

Leo: If you could only get one.

Paul: Well Leo, they're sold out what can I say? They must be doing well.

Leo: So what makes it better?

Daniel: Well it's cheaper.

Leo: So is an Onion, it doesn't mean it's going to be better on my wrist.

Daniel: I actually don't have a problem with paying for good technology. I think the weird thing with paying a lot of money for the Apple watch is it's going to be updated next year and yours won't be. So it's sort of a weird thing to commit $200 to in my opinion but that's a decision people have to make.

Leo: Jason Ward is writing this on Windows Central. Why does Jason think the Microsoft band will beat Apple's watch?

Daniel: So his main thesis there, which I agree with, is that the band- And I've been saying this for a while. -Is more of a demonstration device, right? And this is sort of where I think the issues with Microsoft and how to position this, the debate comes up what's in the company. But the band itself started out as an Xbox project and it branched out but it's really about the Microsoft Health back end that's the real story here. And basically, Microsoft is making all of their stuff sort of open to other companies. So Health itself has a sort of platform in Cloud computing and it's all going to be available for other companies to sign up for. In fact, I think there is already one Wearable that is going to be using it. The sensor technology in the band is also open up to licensing so you can do all of that, the same technology behind there to put in your own Wearable. The way Microsoft is positioning the band right now is they're taking in a lot of feedback and seeing how they use it and I think to some people who follow this stuff, it seems very obvious. It's like just go sell millions of these things but this market is still very untested. It's just like the smartphone market was pre-2007. Where, companies aren't 100% sure what people want, what they'll put up with, what they'll pay for it, and what they actually use and desire. That's why you're seeing sort of a schizophrenic approach to these things where some companies are doing full-on watches, some companies are doing full-on watches that you have to turn on. Some are doing Wearables and it's kind of all over the place right now and Microsoft is definitely feeling that out before they decide to commit advertising money to this and millions of dollars.

Leo: Or even making more.

Daniel: Yeah, well we did do an article that Best Buy is going to start stocking these this month. So that's going to be the first retail presence that you're going to see a big push for and I think they're holding back some of their own stock to build up for that. But long-term-- And I think that's what this is really about is long-term. --Microsoft I think is actually in a better position because their stuff is going to be able to be licensed and open where other companies are going to be able to use it, whereas the Apple watch- And this is fine. -Apple is purposely making it a closed system that only works with the iPhone and by its natural design it's just going to have a limited market. And you jack up the price to limit it more. And I'm sure Apple is aware and made that conscious decision to do it and people who ride off the bands are looking six weeks ahead, going what's the band doing right now? But Microsoft's play on this is much, much longer. And so they're positioning themselves, I think, for a more strategic move on this market, which is still like I said, undefined. So I'm real curious on how the watch is going to be received.

Paul: It's almost like they're going to compete by not competing. These platforms, the watch platform itself but also the back end Microsoft Health service, they're all open and it's system so like Daniel just said, other people can make devices with Microsoft technology and other people can make devices with no Microsoft technology but work with the Microsoft Health service. They've made this whole thing open and they want everything to interchange and they want everything to work.

Leo: It's so funny how times have changed. It used to be Apple had to work with other people because they didn't have any market share and now it's Microsoft that has to be cross-platform. Not because they don't have market share, it's just because-

Paul: It's a new world.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, you can also make the argument that Apple is going to sell the watch by sheer force.

Leo: Absolutely. They're brute forcing the watch.

Daniel: I mean just that night I saw commercials all over TV for it and I was like, geeze that started fast. But they're already building that up and that's why I think, despite all of the criticisms out there about the watch, I still think it's going to do pretty well. The issue was, it's just like tablets where with the iPad everybody thought people would get the next iPad. But the thing with watches, I don't think people are going to want to update their watches every year or two. Most people buy a watch and keep it for quite a few years. So far with tablets, that cell phone shift has not happened. People get a tablet and they stick with it for longer than some companies would appreciate. So I'm curious with watches, if you get the $300 watch or $350 maybe, what about the people committing to the $500 or $1,000 versions.

Paul: Well those guys might end up just buying new bands. Maybe that's the upper end.

Leo: Speaking of which, somebody in the chatroom is saying his Microsoft band is starting to wear out already. I mean, you wear it all the time right Paul? Is it doing well?

Paul: Yeah, I mean it's beaten up I don't know if you can see it but-

Leo: It's pretty durable though...

Paul: It's scraped, I don't make any attempt to protect it, I don't wear it in the shower but I don't care about it getting wet.

Leo: How much is it?

Daniel: $199.

Leo: So if you had to replace it yearly, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Paul: If I had to replace it I'd be screwed, I can't buy one.

Daniel: Well if you buy it at the Microsoft store you can get the insurance which is $19. My band itself is fine, like the actual band but the face of it, I don't have a screen protector on it, it's pretty dinged up and scratched. But it's one of those things where it's not a piece of jewelry and I honestly don't even notice it unless I hold it up and have the light reflect off of it since it's black.

Paul: Yeah, we're not Apple users, Leo. We don't sit there and stare doe-eyed into our devices.

Daniel: But I think that when they do version 2 they definitely should put Gorilla Glass on the screen, I think it was a cost-cutting thing that they did. But this is one reason why I think they're not mass selling, they're seeing how people respond to their form factor. People complained that the form factor wasn't watch-like and you had to do this weird twisting of your wrist and all this kind of thing, which I actually enjoy I love wearing it on the inside. Have you tried this yet Paul? The one cool thing about having this elongated form factor is it's got a keyboard on it and the keyboard works, like it's actually kind of-

Leo: What?

Daniel: Yeah, they came out with an update about two weeks ago so when a text message comes in, you have multiple ways of replying so you can just reply with a canned phrase and just choose phrases on the screen, they have Cortana which you can tap and dictate your message through it, but there's also a physical keyboard now and you can actually type in a message. We have a video on Windows Central about how it works. And it's one of those things where cognitively, you're going there's no way I can type on this little screen, and they figured it out, and it really works. I tell you, it's really cool to not have to pull your phone out of your pocket and just send a text message back by typing on the screen it feels no different.

Leo: Can you dictate with Cortana?

Daniel: Yeah.

Leo: So you can also do that?

Daniel: It actually works very well.

Paul: But you have to have Windows phone for that.

Daniel: Right, yeah.

Leo: Paul Thurrott, Daniel Rubino, we're talking Windows on Windows Weekly. Daniel Rubino from Windows Central, Paul Thurrott from and Colorado.

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: He has a massive cold, poor guy.

Paul: I could tell my daughter was going to get me sick, I told her- I will not forget this. -She nervously giggled and was like okay?

Leo: Questions from the chat room anybody have questions for Paul or Daniel. if you're watching live. If you're listening to this as a podcast on-demand, don't go to the chat room and ask a question, nobody's there.

Leo: Phil Harris is leaving the Xbox division out of frustration, is that a fair characterization?

Daniel: That's the report, yeah.

Paul: Frustration over what though?

Daniel: It's internal stuff about him not getting a promotion or moving up in the company.

Leo: So that's not a knock on the Xbox?

Daniel: No. It's just one of those divisions in companies that have changed and so some people's jobs have changed and they aren't moving in the direction that they prefer. And that's a legit complaint. It's just not like somebody's abandoning ship because the platform is sinking kind of thing.

Paul: It's not sinking, two things that I find interesting about the Xbox, one I believe Daniel will appreciate because he was there at the January event. When Phil Spencer came out I thought it was a little awkward, this guy from Xbox talking about Windows. I thought he felt a little awkward. By comparison at GDC I thought he felt very natural so something good has happened there. You know, I'm not saying he's bought into it more, more comfortable with it or whatever, I don't know. The other interesting aspect of it is, remember they were embarrassed by Windows 8 when the Xbox One was first coming out and Xbox One is based on Windows 8 but they never talk about it because they're embarrassed. But there has been a real subtle shift in language. In fact if you go back and watch the video of Phil Spencer from GDC, he occasionally says Xbox One but what he really says all the time is Xbox- This is sort of like the band thing where the way they compete is to not compete. Obviously you would prefer to beat PS4 but if you can't beat PS4, well we sell Xbox's. There's a low-end model, and there's a high-end model. If you don't want to buy an Xbox you can have Xbox on Windows tablets, PCs, and phones. And it's kind of a more consumer centric message in a way. Where it's just Xbox, you don't have to worry about so maybe technically this one comes in 2nd place, fine. We're still going to sell 10's of millions of these things and the important thing is Xbox and I like that change of focus, I think it's smart.

Leo: Here's a surprise to me, this comes from Dan3 in the chatroom, he says, My Windows update on 8.1 is letting me download the Windows 10 preview. I didn't know it would show up in the update. He wants to know if it's safe to do or ready to go as a build? And will the OEM require a system update?

Paul: The reason he's seeing that now is because he signed up for the developer preview, the Windows 10 preview using the Microsoft account he has signed on to his PC.

Daniel: As far as the updates another big question is do you need to like reformat the computer when the official Windows 10 comes out, what happens to the license? I mean, we don't 100% know but from past experience with the 8.0 update and the 8.1- I mean the preview stuff isn't new for Microsoft. It's new in the fact that they've opened it up more and it's more frequent. This is really cool with the more modern Windows PCs, like if you bought one with Windows 8 on it. The licensing key is actually put on the chip on the mother board so you don't need to enter it in anymore. The computer I'm using right now, the Dell XPS 27 came with 8.0 and I flashed it with the 8.1 update because it came out and leaked so I put it on there and there was that question, will I get upgrades on there and that kind of stuff- I didn't have a Windows Key and I had no documentation but I didn't need to because it's on the chip set and works magically. There should be no problems with the upgrade, I mean the upgrade is free for Windows 7 users.

Leo: You guys, yesterday was Microsoft Bob's 20th birthday says 3137, you guys come on get with it. And Battlecam wants to know whatever happened to the Cloud rendering on the Xbox One? Didn't they promise there would be Cloud rendering?

Daniel: Titan Fall is a good example of Cloud Processing they use it for that, but what was that game, it was an Xbox Live game for Windows phone and Windows PC and it was the space battles. And you would do these massive space wars and verse other people. You would move your armada and the battle itself was rendered in the Cloud and then it would download a video to your device and that video was your real ships and your battle, but it was rendered in like the 3-D cinematic stuff.

Leo: That's neat. And you had to do that because it was so complex. Weren't there thousands of people at once playing that?

Daniel: Yeah and so your battle would get queued and then it would come back down within a couple of minutes and then you could watch the battle and see who won. It was like a two minute video.

Leo: Was it Galactic Rain?

Daniel: Galactic Rain, there you go. That's what it was. And it was a real fun game with a lot of potential. It was an experiment kind of thing for them and they pulled the plug on it which sucks because a bunch of us were really into it and it was one of the few games where I was like here's a great usage of Cloud Computing being actually really useful. And I keep waiting to see how that- They should just bring that game back...

Leo: Yeah. I want to play it.

Daniel: The cinematics on it where really awesome.

Leo: Somebody in the chat room says Forsit does server side rendering, I don't know how they'd do that. Anyway, what else? Don Matric is on the Microsoft dart board. I don't know what that means.

Paul: It's a joke.

Leo: Yeah, I haven't heard of him in years.

Paul: I think he's on a submarine.

Leo: Okay, he's the guy that said you can't use Xbox One on a submarine. The Microsoft contest for insiders, to win a trip to Redmond, the insiders are disappointed about the lack of builds. Nooo...

Daniel: No, they did the contest too to Mobile World Contest, this is just them being-

Leo: Just promotion.

Daniel: Yeah.

Leo: TechnoSquid wanted to show Paul this...

Paul: I can't see it.

Leo: Okay I'll read it to you it's a Family Circus and it says, "Daddy, are you feelin' under the weather or over the weather?" Can you make Paul more sick, folks? Let's not make him more sick. Alright, I think it's time to take a break. Let Paul blow his nose and we will come back. I have an urge for a snack, I wish I could push one down the pipe to you. My Nature Box snacks, they're so good, so delicious, so yummy. I want to maybe send some fancy dried figs out to you that'd be good. Some sweet blueberry almonds, Flax Fortune Coins. Mini cookies with flax seed. Yummy yum yum, Nature Box Snacks come delivered to your door every month, but I'm going to get you some free snacks so you can get an idea of what it's like to try these wholesome delicious treats. You like spicy, savory, sweet? I think this is of the spicy variety, the Jalapeno Cashews, whoah. One thing you'll notice- A couple of things, first of all the bags are resealable, which is great. They're all nutritionist approved and that's because there's no trans-fats, no high fructose corn syrup, no artificial colors or flavors it's wholesome and simple stuff that is just delicious for your kids or yourself. When it gets to be about this time in the afternoon, if you're tempted to head to the snack machine, stop. Grab a Jalapeno White Cheddar Popcorn or Cashew Power Clusters or a Whole Wheat Raspberry Figgy Bar, have a little bit of Cherry Vanilla Granola. I'm taking that home, that's breakfast tomorrow. I love Nature Box and you will too, get your free sample just $2.00 shipping and handling on it, sent to you directly so you can get a sense of what's out there. Life is hectic and it's hard to make the best snacking decisions so the next time you're looking for quick pick me up's, Nature Box. to get that free snack box. Somebody once said, the secret to success for these box things, and there's quite a few of them, is it's like getting a gift come to your door. Every time you get your Nature Box, it's like thank you. Thank you Nature Box in the Cloud. You've made me a happy man. Start your free trial today, Poor Paul, you just look terrible.

Paul: Sorry.

Daniel: He's smiling at least.

Leo: He's smiling but you can tell- I've been there, I know what he feels like. Tip of the Week Paul Thurrott let's get an Xbox One Tip here.

Paul: I'm going to burn through these really quickly. It seems like every week or two Microsoft has a sale on Xbox One and this week's I guess is the entry-level version of the console, the connectless version with Masterchief collection. 4 Masterchief games.

Leo: Nice.

Paul: Yeah, so for the price of just the console you get all of the Halo games so if you're a Halo guy, haven't bought an Xbox One, kind of a no-brainer. I wish they'd do a Call of Duty thing like Masterchief Collection but-

Leo: That's a great idea, all of the games. It'd be so awesome.

Paul: I don't know where you can get this other than the Microsoft store but my understanding is you can get this at various retailers for this price of $350, you can probably get it locally but it's worldwide too. Availability difference depending on where you are. And I have a second Tip of the Week and I guess I would have picked the Audible app as my software pick but I wrote an article this week about two factor authentication and multi factor authentication, which in Microsoft's world is two step authentication and the importance of protecting your online accounts with this technology even though it's a little bit of a pain in the butt. The important thing to do is to enable this on every account that supports it, Microsoft accounts do, Hotmail, Outlook, etc,. Google does, Dropbox does, Twitter does all kinds of different companies do with online accounts. And typically, you'll use an app on a smart phone. This is an odd one, for whatever reason, the Microsoft authentication is actually called the Microsoft account app on Android it's way better than any app on any other platform. The reason is most of the apps work by sitting there and generating codes. The Microsoft account app only on Android works a different way so that when you go to authenticate online with your user name and password it asks you for your code and you actually get a notification from the app and then you say accept or deny and when you accept it the code is entered in automatically, you don't have to type it.

Leo: I love that. I wish they had that on Windows phone.

Paul: I know, it's a really great app. But regardless, you can use Microsoft authenticator on Windows phone, you could use Google authenticator on iOS but if you’re on Android, get the Microsoft account app.

Leo: That's important to know, is that Microsoft does have an official authenticator app for Windows phone and there are a lot of third-party unofficial ones.

Paul: Make sure you get the Microsoft one.

Leo: This is an open standard the way they're doing this authentication. Basically the way it works is you're given a secret number and you put that number into the application and it creates a hash of the current time and every thirty seconds recreates that. And Microsoft knows what your secret number is and can actually duplicate that hash so it's like sending a secret number but that's a standard and I just feel like I want to go to the big guys that I trust instead of the third-party apps.

Paul: I could be wrong about this last point but I think this is true, with most authenticator apps if I go to put my Microsoft account on the iPhone using Google authenticator app-

Leo: Here's what I do, I take a picture of the QR code and because I install on new phones all of the time so I keep all of my QR codes and when I get a new phone I take a picture of them and since it's the same secret number it doesn't validate any of the other ones.

Paul: Here's what's weird about the Microsoft account app, you can install that in addition to another authenticator app and it works fine.

Leo: Right, I just did it. I love that, as long as you use the same secret number you can use multiple authenticators.

Paul: The other thing is, when you're setting up your account make sure that you have different ways for Microsoft to contact you. If for some reason you're somewhere and you need to generate a code but you don't have your phone, they can text or call you. They will actually call you and read it over the phone.

Leo: Somebody in the chat room is saying if you use the Microsoft account app it will invalidate the Google authenticator on the same phone? Maybe, as a word of warning.

Paul: Well why have two on the same phone?

Leo: Right, it's one or the other.

Paul: It's handy having it on two different phones.

Leo: So I'm doing set up now. I'm logging into my Microsoft account and I have last pass so it will just fill that in. Use with caution I guess I would say. I used to use Duo Security, and it's not a six digit number it just authenticates.

Paul: What's amazing about it is when this happens and it's accepted on the mobile app on your phone, that authentication on whatever other devices just goes away it just works. It's really cool.

Leo: I'm going to try it. Let's get Daniel Rubino and his Pick of the Week.

Daniel: Pimp My Band. This is a third-party app one of the few that are hitting the stores now. There are a couple but it modifies a Microsoft Band, which is what people love with technology. This app is a multi-faceted app, it was $.99 but I believe it's free right now and its main feature is it lets you change the Me Tile image on the band to whatever you want so you can do solid colors or import any photo you want like your family or your dog and it looks really good. One thing you can say about the Microsoft Band is the display on it is actually really solid. So you can change that but a new update came out and it lets you change the language on the band to Spanish, French, Italian, and I think maybe German. So although in those countries people can't buy the bands they are still paying more money to buy online so for those people they don't have to settle for an English language Band and they can change it directly using this tool. This tool also lets you do a couple of other little things and I just think it's a great example of the ingenuity that's coming out with the band and what people are doing with it.

Leo: So Paul, after I set this up I got a text message from Microsoft to this phone validating it with a link and now it's just going to sit there, right? And if a new request comes in- But it doesn't give me, like it's not going to work with Google or other two factor authenticators it's just for the Outlook account.

Paul: Yeah, the other authenticator apps support multiple accounts and multiple accounts at the same time too.

Leo: But this is great, it's not a problem. So what do I do? I would get a request that would show up somewhere on this phone when I log in to my Microsoft account.

Paul: You could be on that phone but you could be anywhere on the computer or tablet or whatever. You know, you go to on a different computer, type in the user name and password and when the thing for the code comes up you're going to get a notification on that phone that you just installed the app on and the notification is going to say accept or deny. It's really cool how it works.

Leo: Now if I don't have my phone with me, I'm screwed.

Paul: No, you always have a chance to use a different-

Daniel: Yeah, they could email you.

Leo: Good. Pimp My Band is free by the way, there's a nice diamond on the icon so you know you'll have the right one.

Daniel: They also have some similar apps out there that if you lose your band you can send a signal from your phone to vibrate it and wake it up. Which, hopefully- And there's another one to clear your notifications.

Leo: I love it. Your pick number two.

Paul: Huetro, so I'm a big Phillips Hue bulbs person. The smart bulbs for you house and unfortunately like most Windows phone things, we don't have an official app from Phillips so it's up to the third-parties. And Phillips is a pretty good company with opening up their API's to third-party developers. They're not crazy about it so this developer here has made this app that is completely free and it does everything. You can set your schemes, you can control individual lights, it has geo fencing so it knows when you come home and leave. It's really good, so if you were thinking about getting into Phillips Hue or you already have it, you can use this app to control everything. And of course with Windows phone, you can pin individual scenes to your start screens for quick access so I can just tap a tile and it will automatically launch that scene so I don't have to go into the app and do all of that. So really great work by a single developer and it goes to show the power that people can do on these devices.

Leo: This is another reason why I find frustration with Windows phone is Hue, Sonos, all the things I control with all of my other phones, I don't have apps for. Now, the third party apps and this one looks pretty good.

Daniel: And two things in there, there's a good app called Phonos which Sonos actually endorses and it's like the alternative. The other thing on there is there is a Sonos app actually being worked on right now so it's in development. It's probably in the later stages so it should be out soon.

Leo: It's funny, it's the little things like that- Same reason I can't just use a Chromebook. There's no- I can't control my Hue lights and my Sonos- Those little things may be little but they can make a difference in what I want to use. Finally since Mary Jo is not here and Paul is shrinking, let me get a beer pick from Daniel Rubino.

Daniel: Yeah, I'm not nearly as wordly as Mary Jo when it comes to beers however, I do occasionally indulge in the libations and a Blithering Idiot is one I had recently that I really enjoy. It's made by Weyerbacher Brewing Company it's an English Barley one and Paul and I have discussed this before how we both hate hops and this is a very anti-hop beer and it's a very strong beer with 11% alcohol. And I tend to drink the beers that are all 10% or higher alcohol. So I'm a really big fan of Barley Wines and the Quads so if you don't like hops or you like something that is very malty this is a very good choice I think. Matter of fact I might go buy one for tonight because why not?

Leo: Paul recommended a Barley Wine last night.

Paul: I did, yeah.

Leo: Paul I hope you feel better and I hope you have a good time in Ft. Collins, is there snow on the ground.

Paul: No not really. Little patches here and there.

Leo: So you came there for the spring weather.

Paul: Yeah, it's 70 degrees.

Leo: 70 in Ft. Collins, what?

Paul: Yeah.

Leo: Nice. Jealous now, have a great time and I hope you feel better soon. We'll be back to our regular time next week, 11am Pacific, 2pm Eastern time, 1800 UTC on Wednesdays that's Windows Weekly for episodes more information or show notes. But if you want you can also subscribe wherever it is you get your podcasts and there's a really nice TWiT app on Windows phone. So thank you, third-party developers for making it possible. Paul feel better, Daniel it's great to have you. Daniel is at Paul is at

Paul: Yeah Daniel thanks for joining this week.

Daniel: Always a pleasure guys.

Leo: And I should mention that Windows Central is a part of the mobile nations group. So we love Rene Ritchie, Serenity Caldwell, all of the mobile nations folks. And the Android folks, what is it again?

Daniel: Android Central.

Leo: But you're not in Canada?

Daniel: No I'm in Boston.

Leo: Thank you all for watching, we'll see you next time on Windows Weekly!

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