This Week in Tech 867 Episode Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. 
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiT this week in tech, we have an all in studio panel today. I think you'll be able to tell the difference. Owen, JJ stone, ODoctah sitting to my left on my right. I've got Jason Snell from six colors.com and Ian Thompson of the register.com. It's gonna be a big show. We're gonna talk about, of course, the new studio. Jason has a review. I have some benchmarks who should buy it, who should not buy it coming up also, we'll take a look at the display, a little bit less of a satisfying product, a Facebook deep fake of president Zelensky would you be fooled and how Amazon made it harder to cancel am Amazon prime. It's all coming up next on TWiTtter Podcasts. You

TWiT Intro (00:00:47):
Love from people you trust. This

Leo Laporte (00:00:52):
Is TWiT.

TWiT Intro (00:01:00):
This

Leo Laporte (00:01:00):
Is to with this week in tech episode, 867 recorded Sunday, March 20th, 2022. That's not a TikTok. It's a podcast this week in tech is brought to you by zip recruiter. According to research, 90% of employers plan to enhance their employee experiences year. And if you need to add more employees, well they're ZipRecruiter. Ziprecruiter's technology finds qualified candidates for your job, and you can invite your top choices to apply. Try ZipRecruiter for free today at ziprecruiter.com/TWiT and by new Relic, that next 9:00 PM call is just waiting to happen. Get new Relic before where it does, and you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and 100 gigabytes of data free per month. Forever. No credit card required. Sign up a new relic.com/TWiT and by Coinbase cryptocurrency might feel like a secret club, but Coinbase believes everyone should be able to get in the door. But whether you've been trading for years or are just getting started, Coinbase can help. For a limited time, new users can get $10 in free Bitcoin. When you sign up today at coinbase.com/TWiT and by express VPN going online without express VPN is like changing while leaving your window a wide open, secure your online activity by visiting express vpn.com/TWiT today and get an extra three months free on a one year package.

Leo Laporte (00:02:35):
It's time for TWiT this in tech. Sure. We cover the latest tech news happy spring everybody. First day of spring, we thought, Hey, C's all over. Let's just bring as many people in the studio as possible. Actually, you started at Owen, JJ stone O doctor, because you came to town. I am to blame

TWiT Intro (00:02:53):
And I

Leo Laporte (00:02:53):
Appreciate the blame being put upon me. When the doctor comes to town, it's a party. Look at this.

Owen JJ Stone (00:02:59):
There's like 9,000 people on the other side of these cameras. They'll never know

Leo Laporte (00:03:01):
What do you call that thing on your

Owen JJ Stone (00:03:03):
Head? So do you know, so I'm wearing a Jersey that is not my own. And what happens is people know that I'm a Philly guy. That's

Leo Laporte (00:03:09):
An NFL Jersey, Howie long

Owen JJ Stone (00:03:10):
Howie long represent Oakland right now. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:03:12):
Throw. I like it Raiders.

Owen JJ Stone (00:03:14):
So this is the fanatic, the Philly fanatic. What is it? Beak nose. Not gritty. No. Yeah, not crazy. Just the fanatics, but this, this represents my Philly hood. So they know that I'm, I'm out here representing both sides. So that's you

Leo Laporte (00:03:25):
Call that a do or just a do band?

Owen JJ Stone (00:03:28):
I think they call it a fanatic band cause of the eyes, like when, when I bought it, pull it, don't poke

Leo Laporte (00:03:35):
Down over your eyes just for a minute, just so we could see what it would. Yeah's perfect. You could be a Mexican

Owen JJ Stone (00:03:40):
Wrestling disturbing if I could put my mask on and just Rob someone right now, like, is there awesome. Is your is your studio in the studio? Yeah, cause I will burglarize

Leo Laporte (00:03:48):
Take my studio

Owen JJ Stone (00:03:49):
And that's how I'll get that. That's a

Leo Laporte (00:03:51):
Good look. Good to, oh, well also with us sitting to this is so awesome. I'm so in love with us sitting in the studio also E and Thompson for the register.com we brought in on all our favorites today. Cuz fun. Let's have fun. Right? Good to see you Ian.

Owen JJ Stone (00:04:07):
Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:04:07):
It was a pleasure watch. Oh, I could touch him. He's

Owen JJ Stone (00:04:09):
A person.

Leo Laporte (00:04:10):
He's a person. He's not an avatar. He's not imaginary loved having you. It's great to see you. No good to you. And from six colors.com and guy's probably pretty busy right now, Jason Snell.

Jason Snell (00:04:20):
I barely fit at this table. There's so many people at it. It's huge. I know. I know. You know, I once hosted an episode of either TWiTtter or Mac break weekly where I was the only human being in here and it was all boxes and

Leo Laporte (00:04:29):
Welcome to my life for the last's terrible years. It's

Jason Snell (00:04:31):
Terrible. It's very dis harder to not have humans around you

Leo Laporte (00:04:34):
Much harder. People don't understand. I mean, because the sound quality is good. And if you're only listening and even with the avatars, you call almost feel like somebody's there as you're watching at home. But what you're missing is there's no interpersonal communication. There's no body language. There's

Iain Thomson (00:04:48):
No. Yeah. You can't just sort of toss ideas backwards and forwards. I found this in the office environment as well. One of you know, I think one of the things the pandemic has really shown up is the real failings of video I am. Yeah. As a way of, you know, keeping team ness

Leo Laporte (00:05:02):
Together, if there's any reason people might want to come back to work. It's that? Yeah. Right. No more of this. No more zooming. Who's zooming

Owen JJ Stone (00:05:08):
Whom at the same time as men who are older, imagine if this would've happened in 1980, what would you have done? Well, who are you gonna call? Huh? So, I mean, as far as I'm concerned,

Leo Laporte (00:05:19):
You'd be sitting on the phone. Yes. The, the,

Owen JJ Stone (00:05:21):
So as bad as it was not great, at least we have the technology now to deal with things. Yes. It is great to see you, but technically we've never met before in person, but I know you as Champion, like, and just from, so it's, it's such a weird thing because like yes, back into the world, enjoy the world. But thank goodness we had what we had even in the, to be able to use those tools. So, you know, yin and yang on that, but yeah. Great to be back in person. So, and still drinks from the fridge. If someone at TWiT, if you're missing two of the lemonade, blueberry things, it was Leo that's

Leo Laporte (00:05:55):
For you. Me. No in didn't in, if you want alcoholic beverages, adult beverages, you're more than welcome. We could do that. I have some nice cognac. I have some Reito miss cow. You

Owen JJ Stone (00:06:04):
Do have good things.

Leo Laporte (00:06:05):
I have some, we have boo. In fact, I hate to say it. Our entire marketing team is in house. Michael O'Donnell at photos on the TWiTtter. He's refreshing. He's a pro photo. We, when we can have people in the studio, we get him. So we have real pictures for the website. Anthony Nielsen is here, wielding the steady cam for, I don't know what some sort of back of the scene he's,

Owen JJ Stone (00:06:28):
He's, he's doing, he's

Leo Laporte (00:06:29):
Doing good work over there. He's good. But he's also of a great mixologist. So if you have an urge for something,

Owen JJ Stone (00:06:37):
Find me the most expensive thing and make it to go back. I'll take a and stick in my backpack.

Leo Laporte (00:06:44):
And Ashley's also here in our marketing department. So obviously this is a red letter day for something. I don't know what,

Owen JJ Stone (00:06:49):
But we're back in person, baby. Yeah. You know, gonna put a little effort over here, you know what I mean? Getting it while getting his good until shut his back down again. You

Leo Laporte (00:06:57):
That's that's I kind of feel like, you know, this could be just another brief inter re between

Jason Snell (00:07:03):
Let's do while we can at the very least,

Leo Laporte (00:07:05):
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, we're so glad I don't have to tell you to turn original audio on or anything. This is great. This is great. Max studio came on Friday for some of us. You got your max.

Jason Snell (00:07:18):
Yeah. I, I got a review unit, so I've been, oh, had it a week before. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:07:22):
So actually good. This is good. Cuz I noticed that the embargo's were lifted Thursday the day before they arrived for real people, six Sam. So all the YouTubers, I was amazed how many YouTubers got Mac studios from apple? Like dozens people I never heard of.

Jason Snell (00:07:36):
They're kind of a target audience though. Apple apple really tries to get people's hands on them who are going to be able to appreciate them. And the studio has enough power. I think they figure that people who work in video every day are people who are going to be able to put it through its paces. And that's the of time at pro or whatever

Leo Laporte (00:07:53):
The unkind interpretation would be. Give it to people who have no journalistic ethics who will say, Hey, what apple

Owen JJ Stone (00:07:59):
Sent me. It was

Leo Laporte (00:08:00):
Great that there was a fair share of that too.

Jason Snell (00:08:03):
Yeah, sure. I mean, I think both of those things are true, but I, I think sending it to somebody who works in video, who's gonna be like, oh my God, look at this export is gonna be a good story for apple to tell about that. And, and you know, the usual suspects like me got them to although I didn't get the ultra, they only sent me the max. And if I've learned, so

Leo Laporte (00:08:20):
Gruber got the ultra, I just wanna say,

Jason Snell (00:08:22):
I know you

Leo Laporte (00:08:22):
Should feel bad.

Jason Snell (00:08:23):
I do feel bad

Leo Laporte (00:08:24):
That you're now, you know where you're in the Peck order.

Jason Snell (00:08:26):
You know, they never, they, they, they think of me as a writer and they're like, well, you don't need all that all that power. And I'm like, guys, have you seen how much processor, isotope, audio plugins use? I used it all the time. It's brutal. And that's why I bought a, a, an iMac pro with I was using for a lot of time. But, but I, I did buy one of these. And the funny thing about this apple Silicon world we're in now is what I've learned so far is if it's got the same chip in it, it's the same.

Leo Laporte (00:08:50):
It's the same, same talk speed. Yeah. For sync. And if you look at benchmarks now Tom's hardware has done them. Ours Technica, Andrew Cunningham did a whole bunch of good benchmarks. If you look at the single core performance, it's identical across the board

Jason Snell (00:09:04):
And, and, and the multi-core between yeah. The, the same core, right? The M ones are all one core. And then if you look at multi-core, we finally have another Mac to hair, to the MacBook pro. So if you get a same configuration, like a 16 inch MacBook pro with the M one max, and you compare it to the max studio, it's the same

Leo Laporte (00:09:23):
Computer. So max equals max.

Jason Snell (00:09:24):
Yeah. If it's an M one max, it's the same.

Leo Laporte (00:09:26):
And even though the power can be different because now you're plugging it in. I'll tell you, one thing was very impressive with the max studio. The cooling subsystem in that is great. The fan, I'm sorry, what do they call? 'em The turbo snots. What do they there's they've got a name. The thrusters

Jason Snell (00:09:41):
Got a brand. The

Leo Laporte (00:09:41):
Thrusters come on right away. Yeah. And stay on and don't go up or down. They, it doesn't get. So I ran Alex Lindsay's world, famous Mac Buster, the photogrammetry program. It's actually a Russian company. I had to turn off my, my blocking on my ubiquity so I could download this. It, it is a program that takes a bunch of photos and then mushes 'em together and builds a 3d model out of it. Mega shape it's called. And the nice thing is runs on windows, Mac, and Linux. So I can do some benchmarking crossing. This is a, a shot as it was just wrapping up. Look at the cores. It's on my desktop. I know it may be confusing. It looks like I've got a Mac on the right. Those, all that green that's 100%, every single core efficiency course performance course and still, and it was did that for 20 hours at no point, did the fan get louder or did the machine feel hot? Or even the air coming out of the back, it might have gone up a degree or two, the cooling subsystem on that. And, and this was the max, the ultra, rather. So as the copper is incredible. Incredible.

Owen JJ Stone (00:10:51):
So that's what I'm excited for, right? Cuz this is the max pro and this is now a Frisbee disc to me. I bought the M one. No,

Leo Laporte (00:11:01):
No, but that's, that's Jason's point

Owen JJ Stone (00:11:02):
I bought, I bought it. Shouldn't be a Frisbee. And so here's why it is one. I got the Mac mini M one and I was like, all right, this is cool. It kind of does what I want. Cause I'm shooting stuff in eight K. So I'm throwing hard stuff at it. And, and it worked like, oh cool. And 4, 2, 2, it worked when I got this, I said, oh, the game has changed this thing. Yeah. Not

Leo Laporte (00:11:21):
As much as you would hope

Owen JJ Stone (00:11:22):
This thing though is eating through it. And it's making everything that I wanna do easier. So I thought to myself, one, this is a brick and I know the 16 is, is better than the 14. That's why I got it. But I got my ultra sitting home waiting for me. So when I get home next week, I'm gonna, I'm selling thing cuz I don't need it.

Jason Snell (00:11:39):
Cause ultra is, it's literally TWiTce yes. Of what the max is. So if you, if you buy the, the base model, you know, and all of those in there of the studio you're getting especially since the 16 inch MacBook pro has a little bit better cooling system in it. And that's, it's identical. You know, there might be a little throttling occasionally on the 14, but on the 16, the M one max chip, it's the same performance. It's just, it's literally the same computer in a different box. Yes. But when you get the ultra, then you're getting double that double, that performance.

Owen JJ Stone (00:12:08):
And I'm, I'm excited for that. Like I, I have trashed apple for three or four years cuz I have a thread rip. I got 128 gigs of Ram. Like I'm just like, dude, what are you talking about? I got 30, 70, like I'm destroying everything I wanna do for the most part. This is faster than that now in a laptop form. And I gotta say apple got me back on that. Now all they're doing is taking my money. My child's education is in danger. She choked me out. When she, you saw me ordering it, she's like, what are you doing? I said, I need it. She's like, you don't need it. But I do. So I might, I might have to replace my kid with the ultra cuz I'm, I'm so excited to get home

Leo Laporte (00:12:42):
That em on the max tech channel actually took his apart. Yeah. And the first thing I felt bad for vet here, he is comparing by the way, an AMD rising to the ultra. Let me pause that briefly. The ultra is, this is where the thermal paste was over that apple. So that's the actual outline of the CPU. The rest is system on a chip. So that's where the Ram is. And the, and the AI processor and the video playback and all that stuff. This is the rise in CPU. And you could see it's a little bigger. The dye itself is huge. And I was very impressed at how well put together it was. I felt bad for EA because he had to put it back together again, it was, it didn't look like that was gonna be much fun. This

Jason Snell (00:13:29):
Was not a system design. That's the Mac pro is for right. A system design that for you to break it open. This is auto system for regular people break

Leo Laporte (00:13:36):
Up and yeah, unlike the old Mac mini, you don't need Adger a pink chipper or anything. I mean, there, there are, if you take the rubber ring off on the bottom, there's screws, four screws, take those off more screws, more screws. He did discover a couple of interesting things. Not, I was not as surprised as he was. There's two of these memory sockets for storage. Now apple said these are not upgradeable. And these are, these are the same SSD chips as on the other side where there's an SSD. So it's clear, this is for various builds.

Jason Snell (00:14:03):
It's the build to order configuration. Cause they don't want to build different versions with

Leo Laporte (00:14:07):
Why would they have different motherboards?

Jason Snell (00:14:08):
And the question is, so could I add later problem is that the storage controller is on the system on a chip. So, and, and they do a security thing where it's paired to the system on the chip. So I think the truth is you might be able down the road,

Leo Laporte (00:14:23):
But not yourself to

Jason Snell (00:14:24):
Go into an apple store or an authorized repair center and get new storage put in and repaired.

Leo Laporte (00:14:30):
But apple has to make this storage, first of all, cause as an non-standard proprietary shape. Yeah. And you'd have to do that stuff. So I could see maybe apple offering it is an upgrade, but it's, but this is not, this does not mean you have an upgradeable system system. This

Jason Snell (00:14:43):
Is a trend for them too. That first off, like I think if you pay attention to what I fix, it has been noticing lately. Apple stuff seems to be more repairable in general lately they seems totally repairable. They seem to have heard the pain of everybody trying to fix things. And it's, it costs apple too when they do AppleCare, right. They have to take these things apart that are not meant to be taken apart. So that's, that's part of it. I don't know. It, it, the other thing is if you look at the display, which we haven't mentioned, the studio display,

Leo Laporte (00:15:08):
We're gonna get there,

Jason Snell (00:15:10):
There that all has a non replaceable part, which is it's got three different stand options. Same story. My understanding is that authorized repair centers or apple repair will be able to switch. Those stands out for a fee. So it's not that there.

Owen JJ Stone (00:15:25):
So

Leo Laporte (00:15:26):
You could get the visa amount. Yeah. If you wanted to if you said, oh, I like the pivot for hundred dollars extra, but I wanted thesis.

Owen JJ Stone (00:15:33):
I went through review and I was like

Jason Snell (00:15:34):
400. Yeah. It's there's yeah. There's so much there. But anyway, that is, we should talk about that at some point. But but my point is there are a bunch of things that are like not upgradeable that might actually be upgradeable, but only through apple, the official path. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:15:48):
This is the motherboard, the logic board. It is not very big. It's really a thin little piece of baloney in a giant sandwich. The bottom part is the 370 wat power supply, which is built into the, the thick Mac studio. The top part about half of it is those fans, those thrusters the blowers. I don't, you know, somebody told me don't call 'em fans. They're blowers. I don't know. What's the difference. It's a fan. Yeah. It takes air. Pushes it out the back. Yeah. in an L shape, sucks it up. Pushes it out. It's a it's this is a very, if you look at the engineering on that, very impressive given what this thing does, and it shows you where apple Silicon is really kind of lapping everybody else. This is all a system on a chip that the, as most of what you want to do,

Owen JJ Stone (00:16:33):
It's close to something perfect that I've seen in a really long time. It's really beautiful. And I, again, I'm not a, the whole embargo life of YouTube just turns me off because I know yes, it's for people to get excited about things, but I'm like, I really appreciate balance and things. So when I have to fanboy out and geek out, like I have over these last apple products, it makes me sick a little bit. But it, it really, this is the first time they've had magic in a long time. They don't even use that terminology anymore, but this is magic. This is a gateway and path that other companies cannot follow. It's good for apple. The, the one thing that they have that is against them, but for them is their walled garden. Right. And everyone else has to work together. And now they're gonna have to have a superhero team to try and defeat the evil empire of apple. When the empire is working in a unison form and they are putting out power. This is impressive. Yeah. You

Leo Laporte (00:17:25):
Can bet Intel AMD and video all trying to duplicate this, but they don't control the stack the way they apple controls everything.

Owen JJ Stone (00:17:32):
Unless you're, you know, again, joining forces and coming up and saying, Hey, at least let us combine our powers to make this. You can't compete right now with this. And the only thing that's keeping regular people out is one. They can't afford it. Yep. Two the, the system isn't in place for 'em to switch over. So a lot of people were like, look, there's things that won't run on Mac. I can't switch to Mac. I don't care how much power it is. I'm used to using it.

Leo Laporte (00:17:57):
If you're gamer, you're not even looking at this with jealous. Exactly. Cause it doesn't compete.

Owen JJ Stone (00:18:01):
But it, it is impressive. Annoyingly enough to say repeatedly So impressive.

Leo Laporte (00:18:06):
This is I should come back around into this mega shape. We'll talk more about this with Alex on Tuesday on Mac break weekly. But just to give you some idea, I thought, oh my God, this thing is slow. It took a total of 20 hours close to it, 18 hours to do the entire photogrammetry. And so I said, Alex, 18 hours, that's a long time he had given Justine with the, a Mac pro came out. I don't know what the Mac pro numbers are. I'll find out. But he said, no, no. On my 16 inch I nine MacBook pro, it went for three days then crashed. So, so at least it's finished and it did it in less than 72 hours. Did it about let's see, three and a half to do the alignment of the photos 13 and a half to do the build out to build mesh is a half an hour. It didn't finish building textures before I had to come in here. But I think it had another half hour to go. So I'll say 18 hours, maybe it's fast. That's pretty fast. That's pretty good. Pretty good. I mean you, but here's okay. Now the most important thing, the bottom line, if you're doing photogrammetry. Yeah. You should get an ultra.

Jason Snell (00:19:07):
Sure. I mean, that, that is the question of like what it is an ultra four versus like an M one max. And I think the answer is they are increasingly narrowing the, the slice of the market that needs the hardware, right? Like the max you need, it is so powerful already. Yeah. That I, with those isotope plugins and all that, I'm like, is this probably more than I need, but it's gonna last me for a few years and that's fine. Did you

Leo Laporte (00:19:30):
Notice your processing was faster?

Jason Snell (00:19:31):
Oh God. Yes. This was, and I was coming from, it was only eight Corion, but Nate Corion from a few years ago and it's not even close plus, you know, the story just TWiTce as fast as it was on my old iMac pro. But the ultra then is double that and there's a Mac pro waiting out there, which at leads, the rumor is, will also come in a two ultra configuration with 40 cores. Yeah. I think what's really funny though. I mean, I do think the competition is, is going to get their act together. I think that you're gonna see a lot of people following what apple has done and realizing they need to change their game a little bit and up their game. I think what's funny about this story is what we were talking about a year or two ago that we're not talking about anymore, which was there isn't any doubt that apple was gonna be able to make something like this laptop here, which is an M one MacBook air. There wasn't really any doubt of like take an iPhone chip or really an iPad chip, stick it in a MacBook air. Sure, sure. You could do that. That'll be fine. But what about pro systems? That was the big question. What about pro systems? Surely a phone chip can't scale up. And that's been the funny thing about this week is like, it, it does, they, these are the first generation pro chips from apple.

Leo Laporte (00:20:39):
These are not even I iPhone thirteens. These are

Jason Snell (00:20:42):
Twelves. Yes. These are based on the a 14. So they're the last previous years chip course. So that's the funny thing is that this is their first generation and they are supplying pro power. Who knows how it's gonna go and what pitfalls there might be. Nobody knows what is in that Mac pro are they ever gonna support external GPUs or is it only gonna be apple GPS? There's still a lot of questions about the very high end, but you're, you're talking about the tiniest slice of the market that there are questions about

Leo Laporte (00:21:06):
For most people, the single core M one performance isn't is enough for browsing for email, totally anything you're doing. And that's gonna be exactly the same on a MacBook air as it is gonna be on a, a studio Mac studio at ultra. Right. It's

Jason Snell (00:21:22):
Yeah. If you're just

Owen JJ Stone (00:21:23):
Doing the basic

Leo Laporte (00:21:23):
Work, but yeah.

Jason Snell (00:21:25):
And the M one is like what is it? Six performance cores and two efficiency cores or something like that's and, and, and they power manage. And I think that's the truth. In fact, one of the problems with covering something like a Mac studio is you're already slicing the market real fin because

Leo Laporte (00:21:40):
This is a pro problem.

Jason Snell (00:21:41):
Almost anything that anybody who would use a Mac would want to do outside of the pros can be handled by a 24 inch iMac or an M one Mac mini or an M one air, like the M one as basic as it is. And it doesn't offer a lot of pro features. You know, it's more than capable for the vast majority of people who use computers, but then there's the studio and the, and the Mac, but pro for the higher end.

Leo Laporte (00:22:04):
And you know, there's be people like us. Yeah. Who are maybe not, I mean, look on the Lisa for sure is never gonna use the ultra. I said, look at this, Lisa, you'll never see these cos pegged again in however long she has that thing. She, even though she's doing spreadsheets and stuff, it's never gonna challenge that. Never

Owen JJ Stone (00:22:20):
Wait. You, you gave her an ultra. Yeah. She's she's my wife. No, I, I happy

Leo Laporte (00:22:26):
Wife, happy life. I

Owen JJ Stone (00:22:27):
Love Lisa. I, I, I know. Yeah, but I mean, what,

Jason Snell (00:22:32):
Just, just give her the max and tell her it's the ultra. Well,

Owen JJ Stone (00:22:34):
You know, that is too much powerful. One woman to head. I have an evil, I have an

Leo Laporte (00:22:39):
Evil thought in my head bedsheets that when my max comes, it looks exactly

Owen JJ Stone (00:22:44):
Swap it out.

Leo Laporte (00:22:45):
I might just sneak it in the middle of the night, sink the two, take the ultra back and give her the max. And she probably wouldn't

Owen JJ Stone (00:22:53):
Know I'm I'm, I'm gonna tell you one thing. Don't do it step. You don't do it. I'm I myself, if you don't swap out, I will show up on Sunday when you guys are in studio and I'll well, the swap it out. I

Leo Laporte (00:23:07):
Had also ordered for her, cause I thought it should be, she has a 49 inch curved display. And she was using that with an iMac. We replaced a 2014 iMac. So I got her I thought at, first of all, I'm just gonna get a separate monitor. And then I got her, this studio display thinking. And as soon as I saw boy, the reviews from NEI Patel on the verge from daring fireballs, John Gruber from Joanna stern at the wall street journal and on and on and on this camera is awful. Even like a Sergeant who has a studio display, he said, my family, I use it to make a FaceTime call. And they said, is there is your camera smudged? Can you clean the camera? It was brand new out of the box. Yeah. I canceled the, this display. I don't for 1500 bucks. And you even, Jason helped because you tweeted a picture of your display crashing.

Jason Snell (00:24:00):
Yes. Yes. It it, well, it didn't crash. It, it it restarted after an error. That's a crash. No, no. In apple world, we don't call that a crash. Yeah. It's it's that display is hilarious. It is. It is, it's an iPhone. It is running iOS. It's an iPhone 11 running

Leo Laporte (00:24:16):
IOS 15.4.

Jason Snell (00:24:17):
Yeah. the, the, the screen, like, like my issues with it are the $400 adjustable stand because I think fundamentally display should be adjustable ergonomically. I think it's kind of outrageous.

Leo Laporte (00:24:30):
I ordered that for

Jason Snell (00:24:31):
Us. And that's how I feel about that. 24 inch iMac too, is like, you get this beautiful iMac in a cute color, and then you put a dictionary under it. Not great. You should probably have it be adjustable. The web came is weird because I didn't see the problems other people were seeing with it, which is why I think it is per probably, I think it's a bunch of things going on here. I think that a cropped wide screen, 12 megapixel camera in different lighting can and

Leo Laporte (00:24:56):
It's CRO so conduc center stage.

Jason Snell (00:24:57):
Yeah. Can be weird. But I think there are also some image processing things happening that depending on your lighting conditions, apple

Leo Laporte (00:25:03):
Says, we're gonna update. This are really

Jason Snell (00:25:05):
Better. Cause I did a 90 minute. Actually talking about the embargo a 90 minute live video on YouTube after the embargo dropped with Dan Mo, we did it for six colors and I spent the entire show on the webcam and nobody noticed, and it looks good.

Leo Laporte (00:25:21):
Nobody said, oh, that's

Jason Snell (00:25:22):
Good. So I don't know what's going on there. And I've gotta think that there are software problems with keep in mind will require an iOS update apparently in order to fix them. But there are some software problems that are making it in certain lighting conditions. I don't think it's a hardware problem. It's possible. I just got a good one, but my guess is that something really bad happened in their image processing pipeline and it made it all look bad.

Leo Laporte (00:25:45):
Why didn't they notice that before they shipped it?

Jason Snell (00:25:46):
I, I don't know. I, I wonder if it was a different version that was on the, on the displays that they were shipping. I it's, it is one of the weirdest things that's happened to me in 25 years of writing about technology because I got a heads up from one of my fellow embargo reviewers, that there was a problem with a webcam. And so I got to spend time trying to duplicate it. Didn't have a problem. I couldn't do it. Maybe there much light coming into my office. I, I have a well lit office. I don't know what's

Leo Laporte (00:26:11):
Going on. Even had problem with center stage. He was like, he's posted a picture where he's off

Jason Snell (00:26:15):
Centers off center stage. I, we, I did duplicate that, that that's a problem where center stage just sort of hangs around and you're not in the center. And eventually you're in the

Leo Laporte (00:26:23):
Center, it's in the iPads. It's I think it's in the MacBook where yeah. It's centers you. So it's

Jason Snell (00:26:28):
Hearing clever, it's a, it's an ultra wide camera. And then they use machine learning to detect faces and automatically kind of do zoom and pan the camera to match when it works a portal.

Leo Laporte (00:26:40):
Does this, and does it better? No, the Facebook portal does it. Yes.

Owen JJ Stone (00:26:43):
And, and it does it, it does it very well. So I, as much as I just said, they're magical. How come they just don't? They can't care about webcams because they keep putting these things out, all these that's.

Leo Laporte (00:26:54):
So this laptop has a very thin screen, but you have an inch and a half. Yeah. Plenty of room in the studio display to put a good camera right in there. Here's by the way, the crash message, this, I don't wanna see a crash on my, on my monitor plus it's got a big it's thick and square and it's got a big fan on it. You know, when they said their I 13 Bionics in it, I scratched my head. Mark Goman was on Mac break weekly on Tuesday. He said, these displays were designed two years ago. That's why they are kind of, they don't have HDR. Yep. They're not great displays. They're LG panels probably, but only 600 knits. He says, that's why it's the a 13. That was the generation of iPhone two years ago. And my conjecture and he kind of agreed is they had extra chips. Why not?

Jason Snell (00:27:41):
There is so much going on with apples for products right now that is recycling. You can see it. Like they are one of the ways they make it up in volume. One of the ways it works is they keep using the same stuff. So the camera in this, and, and this is the argument I think about the, the studio display that's interesting is did they get carried away because they like center stage so much. And they're like, well, we'll just the exact same hardware in every single device that has center stage. So it's the same camera

Leo Laporte (00:28:09):
Back and spatial audio, right. It's and hay.

Jason Snell (00:28:12):
Right. Right. All of the, all of the microphone stuff sounds very much like what's in JJs, MacBook pro the speakers. They say they they're better, but they're very much the same engineering. They're reusing so many of the recycled because I mean, the truth is they are only one company. And how do you handle it? If you are going your own and building all your own stuff is you gotta reuse it. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:28:33):
So I canceled it. I had an LG HDR hundred 20 Herz display. No, I guess it's only 60 Hertz. So it, it wasn't that fat, but it's just for Lisa's spreadsheets. She doesn't, you know, 120 Hertz spreadsheets that I'd already bought. I brought a Brio camera, cuz I didn't know apple was gonna do this. I canceled the display. And I said, well just use what we already have. It's fine. The only thing she doesn't have is those nice speakers and they, they sound good, right?

Jason Snell (00:28:56):
No, no, no. That was actually, I, I, all these people complaining about the webcam and I'm like, guys, I had no problem with the webcam. I, the speakers are okay for speakers that are you embedded in a little display, but that's it that that's, they're they're interesting. You don't wanna listen to music on them. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:29:14):
So do they sound as good as the iMac?

Jason Snell (00:29:17):
I didn't think they sounded as good as the iMac pro. Wow. Which is maybe the iMac pro has better speakers than the, the regular iMac seems

Owen JJ Stone (00:29:23):
A really weird thing to

Jason Snell (00:29:24):
Skim on. I, well, I think the, especially if you're selling, I think they're as good as you can get in that space in a, in, in a monitor, but they're not a rep. Then they oversell it and they say, oh, this is all studio quality. And I think that's the problem. However, I will say Mac users have wanted an apple external display for years and this thing is gonna sell it's really well because there's so many people with MacBook pros and MacBook errors who their only real option at Apple's retina resolution has been the LG ultra fine. And this is the same panel, more or less, just a little bit brighter, but that's

Leo Laporte (00:29:57):
What I bought for six, for 550 bucks at LG ultra fine. It's four, a 5k

Owen JJ Stone (00:30:01):
And that's fine. And the only modern that got me excited is the Samsung arc. If you'd like to buy two of those and send,

Leo Laporte (00:30:06):
Those are nice. This is that new one that goes up as well as out. Right.

Owen JJ Stone (00:30:10):
You can get us one. Me

Leo Laporte (00:30:11):
And Lisa, why would you? That is the weirdest. So is the idea that you're playing a game and you're tilt back. So

Owen JJ Stone (00:30:17):
The first thing

Jason Snell (00:30:18):
Live in a cave. Yeah. Your computer is your cave. So

Owen JJ Stone (00:30:20):
The first thing I, I don't understand in general why I I'm probably just gonna get one just so I can see is they show you the display with you have sections, you have your gaming and you can see your webcam and it's AED in front of you. Right. But I'm like, how is my webcam dead pan center shooting? When I'm looking at this monitor, how, how is there, how is that possible? It's not possible, but that's why you spend money and buy things because the market looks good. And I feel like I should have it. They got us. They should definitely get us one. My birthday, Christmas. What's it

Leo Laporte (00:30:46):
Called again?

Owen JJ Stone (00:30:47):
Negotiate the Samsung arc

Leo Laporte (00:30:49):
Arc. Let me just see if I can how much, how much is it? Does have they announced

Owen JJ Stone (00:30:54):
Like 8 million? I don't know how much it is.

Leo Laporte (00:30:57):
It's one of those, if you, if you don't ask you haven't, if you, you have to ask, you have to ask

Jason Snell (00:31:02):
It's too expensive.

Leo Laporte (00:31:03):
Yeah. Oh, all right

Jason Snell (00:31:05):
There.

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:05):
Oh my God. You can see it right there.

Leo Laporte (00:31:07):
Yeah. Yeah. No, I know what it looks like. I'm trying to show the people at home. Yeah. So,

Iain Thomson (00:31:10):
Oh, that looks like a walking case of next strain.

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:13):
You can flip it and you can also, it just becomes a wide screen when you turn it, because guess what? You don't wanna do

Jason Snell (00:31:18):
Four. Wow.

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:20):
You don't turn you four. It comes with a stand though. You can rotate. You can rotate. How

Leo Laporte (00:31:23):
Is it? Well, we don't know.

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:25):
We don't know. It

Leo Laporte (00:31:25):
Might be more than I

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:26):
Hundred dollars. Don't if it's less than 1500, we're still winning.

Jason Snell (00:31:30):
It's not less than 1500,

Leo Laporte (00:31:31):
Less

Jason Snell (00:31:32):
Than

Leo Laporte (00:31:32):
15. Don't that is not a monitor in when you

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:34):
Say like that, that means you won't buy it for me for Christmas, we gotta just negotiate. You know, we low all the prices. We just have 'em order. We show 'em the bill two months later. But that, that that's impressive to me. That's something new and I, I'm excited to check that it's

Leo Laporte (00:31:46):
New. I mean, you could

Owen JJ Stone (00:31:47):
Say that one. It's it's different. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:31:48):
It's new. Alright. You, you reviewed the M one iPad. You also have that the new iPad here, you like it.

Jason Snell (00:31:55):
Yeah. It's, it's talking about recycling. This is another part of that story. In fact, I recycle parts of my reviews of the M one very handy, very and the old iPad air, because the, it really there's nothing new on that product. It is

Leo Laporte (00:32:08):
That kind of my thought is that if you already have an iPad pro this is the iPad pro kind.

Jason Snell (00:32:13):
It it's well, it's the iPad pro without the not true motion without, without pro promotion and without the, the mini E D display on the high end and without Thunderball, which nobody really uses. But it is, it is, you know, last year, two years ago, they did the new iPad air with the flat sides. And it was a lot like the iPad pro this is just that with a couple small tech connector, cuz they're they're they put center stage in it. So that same camera is in

Leo Laporte (00:32:37):
There. We see type C and the phones there's they're the last hold ever in lightning. You think this

Jason Snell (00:32:42):
Year? I don't know. I don't know whether they'll ever do it. We'll see. So they're

Iain Thomson (00:32:47):
Making too much money from the dongle life. Surely. I mean, it's just, you know,

Jason Snell (00:32:50):
They also got, I mean, they really got yelled at when they went away from the last standard connector and I'm not sure whether they want to do it. I, I wonder if there are still people inside apple who are like, no, no, the next port is no port. We'll just do MagSafe for

Leo Laporte (00:33:05):
We've that we've heard that rumor, maybe they Pogo pins on the back and it would be an adapter.

Jason Snell (00:33:10):
It would be nice if lightning went away every time I have to find a lightning plug from my track pad, I think, oh right. Lightning, still on the track pad, still on the mouse and

Owen JJ Stone (00:33:18):
People wouldn't mad now because the whole world is on USBC. Yes. Before people were upset because there were four different versions that you could be using. Now it's USBC en lightning and that's really it on every device. So it's over. So they might as well switch it over. And I agree they're better always be a port on this phone or tick Tuckers will lose their mind. How am I gonna get my pro audio with Bluetooth and sync up my voice? If you don't, don't keep a plug in this bad boy plugs for life.

Jason Snell (00:33:42):
I agree with you. I think that my, my fear is that apple has people inside who are like, no, man, you don't understand. They have courage. We're gonna have, we're gonna have a magnetic smart connector for people who need it and everything else will be wireless. And this is the same story that they've told about all sorts of other things. And, you know, losing the he phone, we all got through that, but losing I'm still losing a wired, wired access to a device is a bad place to go. It's a bad place to go for lots of reasons, including like the high quality audio or if it bricks or, I mean, there's so many reasons to keep some sport on the device and

Owen JJ Stone (00:34:18):
There's power. If I'm out and

Leo Laporte (00:34:19):
They're gonna put PO of pins in the back,

Owen JJ Stone (00:34:21):
I go to my,

Leo Laporte (00:34:22):
For 59 99, you'll be able to buy a, a little canal lightning connector that Pogo pins onto the back. And you're, and you'll be right back up with the rest of

Owen JJ Stone (00:34:31):
Us. Well, by that time, I'll be as old as you. And it won't matter to me anymore.

Leo Laporte (00:34:35):
Nothing matters to me anymore. Exactly. That

Owen JJ Stone (00:34:38):
That's my point. Once, once you read a certain age, you're I

Leo Laporte (00:34:41):
Fluff nothing, nothing matters. I'm I'm basically fainting interest in this whole thing. I couldn't less

Owen JJ Stone (00:34:46):
When, when you get your wife a super computer for a spreadsheet, I could say that you're at the peak essence of whatever.

Leo Laporte (00:34:53):
And how's your wife.

Owen JJ Stone (00:34:54):
Well, I don't have one. I, cause I, cause I couldn't buy an ultra with a straight face. That's why. No,

Leo Laporte (00:35:00):
I think that there are times one just says, and I said it several times now she's probably getting sick of hearing it, honey, you have the best Mac apple as ever made.

Owen JJ Stone (00:35:10):
And you know, you know, it's funny

Leo Laporte (00:35:12):
Is that right? You

Owen JJ Stone (00:35:13):
Know, it's honey. And since she knows that you love her that much. That's why she has the black card and you do not.

Leo Laporte (00:35:17):
Yeah, that's right. Although I could have used her black card funny. It would've been nice. Let's take a little break. It's nice to have everybody in studio. One of the things you lose, people always say on the phone, you know, the shows where we're all on zoom or whatever that we all step all over each other. Yeah. And it's not because you get the, somehow it's going through the area. I'm gonna talk. You don't have that problem.

Owen JJ Stone (00:35:40):
Well,

Leo Laporte (00:35:40):
There's no latency.

Owen JJ Stone (00:35:41):
The not even latency. It's just that when I'm at home, I see main camera, Jason speaking, and I'm, I'm waiting for him to stop. And I don't know that Ian's also waiting. Yeah. Yeah. And then we both Jason finished and we both jump in. Yep. So being able to look each other in the eye, it does make for a much better for, well, yeah,

Jason Snell (00:35:56):
It is amazing. Just having, not done this in a while. How much body language? Just the eyes, the mouth. Like what? Everybody who's leaning in. Who's ready to go. I'm gonna back off. It's incredible. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (00:36:07):
Power people.

Iain Thomson (00:36:10):
Let's

Owen JJ Stone (00:36:10):
Let's pay these bills on

Leo Laporte (00:36:11):
O J stone O is here from IQ, mz.com from the register.com. Of course the great Ian Thompson, not lane. Ian. Let's get that straight. Why, why do you think the lower third said lane? Was it an old one or was it, it was a joke. 

Iain Thomson (00:36:29):
I was being wound up.

Leo Laporte (00:36:30):
You were being wound and Jason now six colors.com is so nice to have all three of you here. So much fun. I'm gonna take you out to dinner after this. How about that? Woohoo.

Jason Snell (00:36:40):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:36:40):
If you tell Lisa that that ultra is not what she needs,

Owen JJ Stone (00:36:47):
I'm gonna tell her so much that she trains it with my, my max and that way. Cause I, I ordered an ultra, but I'm gonna order a max, just like I have two ultras. I'm just gonna swap it out. Lisa loves me

Iain Thomson (00:36:58):
Are as coming plans, go announcing it on. The show is

Leo Laporte (00:37:01):
Possibly probably she's watching. Oh no, she's not. You know why? I know she went to see the Batman, oh

Owen JJ Stone (00:37:08):
Reality.

Leo Laporte (00:37:09):
She's gonna stuck there forever. She's

Jason Snell (00:37:11):
Nobody tell her

Leo Laporte (00:37:13):
She's gonna come out. Talking like this. Our show today brought to you by zipper. Rooter, hiring is back. The world is coming back and you know, what's great employers. 90% of them are, are, are really thinking, how do we make employee experience a top priority this year? You know, make 'em wanna come back, make it worth their while. And the good news is people are, employers are learning. We, we just started doing four day work week. Employees love that. Right? Listening to your employees, making them feel valued, asking que questions, letting them have input. Focusing on the company culture. Some companies, cultures are not so good, especially in the gaming industry. So we're gonna make it better. Right? More learning opportunities. Our staff loves that the they can get will pay for schooling. More flexibility in schedules. More empathy. If you do need to add more employees to your team, you're making a great place for 'em.

Leo Laporte (00:38:09):
Can I tell you where you find 'em zip recruiter, ziprecruiter.com. Right now you could try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com/TWiT. Why zip recruit? We use it for a couple of reasons. One, because you post once at ZipRecruiter, it goes to the widest possible audience, hundreds of job sites, social media, it's everywhere. And of course the wider your net, the more likely you're gonna find somebody who's just right for that job. But then ZipRecruiter does something pretty amazing because people come to ZipRecruiter looking for work. They have more than a million resumes, current resumes on file. They will actually look at the requirements for your job and match them with people who are applying for work. And then they give them to you and say, look, here's 10 people who really have the qualifications. And if you decide to invite them, let me tell you those people are much more likely to apply much more likely to take the job.

Leo Laporte (00:39:01):
There's something about having the job, come to you and say, Hey, we've got a job for you. That's one of the many reasons zip recruiters, the number one rated hiring site in the United States. That's not just me saying that G two ratings said is that well, and one of the great things about ZipRecruiter is you post there and it doesn't take very long before. Great candidates start rolling in they say four outta five ZipRecruiter employers get a great candidate within a day. We get 'em within an hour or two. I'm always amazed. Lisa, we'll say, look, look, all these are great. It's in hire the bright employees with ZipRecruiter and you can try it for free right now. Go to ziprecruiter.com/the ziprecruiter.com/t w I T please use that address so that they know you saw it here. Ziprecruiter.Com/TWiT. Do you find Jason that you're doing that your podcaster saying because they people who listen to shows like ours are smart, they'll just go to ZipRecruiter. Right? So I beg do you have to do that? Do you ever

Jason Snell (00:40:06):
Do that? Begging to type in the complete URL? Yes. Type the whole thing in, I just try to make it sound very commanding. Just go now, go now do this.com/must something. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:40:19):
It's the world as independent podcasters is slowly constricting as Spotify and apple and Amazon and, and iHeart buy up everything, including all the ad metrics and everything. It's gonna get harder and harder, harder. So whether it's Owens, you know, I Q M Z podcasts like,

Owen JJ Stone (00:40:40):
Yeah, I have, I have a different way of receiving funds. I use my shows as leverage. You

Leo Laporte (00:40:45):
Just, you don't

Owen JJ Stone (00:40:46):
Beg no, you command. No, I'm, I'm, I'm a person who markets other people. So I hate marketing for myself. I do too. I, I have, you know what? I have 5,000 people in my, but you're a marketer have 5,000 people on email list. I never sent 'em one email. Yeah. So I finally used them last week and I reached out, I'm like, good, 3000 of 'em said something. I was like, oh, they're so alive. You're out there. So you gotta, you gotta reach out to the people and the people will help you out. You know, you've built a little empire here, you know, we're still,

Leo Laporte (00:41:11):
I think people at this point

Owen JJ Stone (00:41:12):
Of the country

Leo Laporte (00:41:12):
Support the podcasters. They like whether it's Jason or Owen, you know, and do you, do you do a

Iain Thomson (00:41:18):
Podcasting? We don't know we,

Leo Laporte (00:41:20):
Why doesn't the register, do a

Owen JJ Stone (00:41:21):
Podcast

Iain Thomson (00:41:22):
Because to be quite Frank, we've been trying to hire people and, and finding good journalists is, is, is tough to do. And that's really our priority. We've just master.

Owen JJ Stone (00:41:30):
Everyone's a journalist now. I'm sorry. That's I tried to stay with a straight face.

Jason Snell (00:41:36):
You won zoom. I would've missed that eye roll. And it would've been sad.

Owen JJ Stone (00:41:39):
It would've been a problem. Yes.

Iain Thomson (00:41:41):
But yes. It's no, we've just doubled the size of the, of the us office, but yeah, it's, it's on the, it's on the list of things to do. Yeah. But you know, it's like primarily we want, you know, people who are writing,

Leo Laporte (00:41:52):
It's a hard time for content in general.

Iain Thomson (00:41:56):
It's gonna be worse when the cookies thing kick in next year. 

Leo Laporte (00:42:00):
Don't get me stern on the cookies thing. What this cookies banner by itself is becoming the biggest hazard on the internet. They're getting bigger and bigger going to a lot of sites. Now you cannot read any content used to be. You could ignore it. Yeah. You can't even ignore it. Now you have to respond to it and there's options. And, and who does that benefit? It doesn't make it more private.

Owen JJ Stone (00:42:22):
I, I really would like to know who it benefits because it it's, it's a scourge upon the

Leo Laporte (00:42:26):
Internet. It's SCO,

Owen JJ Stone (00:42:27):
Especially not for nothing. Most media and content is consumed on my phone. So even just the, that I got to sometimes pinch in to get to an X. Yeah. If I wanted to X out, I can't even cuz my, you know, I got chunky fingers. I can't even like get to it. I have to accept because the accept is the only thing in the big blue button that you can get in that finite window space. So it's very annoying.

Iain Thomson (00:42:48):
I'm finding that with a lot of, a lot of titles it's getting, it's getting increasingly out of control. And I know you disagreed about this and I don't mind the cookie screen. So, so often cuz you can at least chat and see what kind of stuff they're taking. But it's just gotta have control. I mean this really needs to be rained in

Leo Laporte (00:43:08):
What's gonna happen is people are gonna start running blockers. They're running ad blockers already. They're gonna run. I mean, easy to block that cookie banner, you block origin as a switch to do it and you make this enough of an annoyance pretty soon it gets ignored completely.

Jason Snell (00:43:22):
Yeah. I use a, a plugin called super agent. Yeah. And it is the automatically accept and get it outta my face. Yeah. Kind of thing, which is going against the entire principle of that popup. But it's just an annoyance and I, I don't want to see it ever and, and anybody in California gets to see it now. Oh yeah. Like all the people in Europe to see it. Now everybody in California gets

Leo Laporte (00:43:41):
To see, oh, that's why it's gotten worse.

Jason Snell (00:43:43):
Yeah. That's why California

Leo Laporte (00:43:44):
In California.

Jason Snell (00:43:44):
Cause a Europe like law about cookie consent. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:43:48):
Oh great.

Jason Snell (00:43:48):
We solved it.

Leo Laporte (00:43:51):
Fixed privacy,

Iain Thomson (00:43:52):
Guilty that you know, the EU actually pushed this on and that California's adopted it, but you know, needs must.

Leo Laporte (00:43:58):
We didn't talk. I don't want to go back to the apple conversation, cuz people are gonna think it's an all apple show. It's not. But I should mention this universal control is out now with iOS 15.4. I cannot get it working on one of my iPads. It works on my mini, but not on my M one weird, I don't know why. Tried it in a a hundred different ways. People who use it say it's very cool. It's not like sidecar doesn't it's not a second monitor. It's actually you have duet Or duet. It's not like that because your iPad is still an iPad. Yeah. So you can run iPad apps.

Jason Snell (00:44:29):
That's that's the most and

Leo Laporte (00:44:30):
Control 'em with your mouse of,

Jason Snell (00:44:31):
I never use sidecar because I would always put an app over there that I had an iPad app of. And I'd be like, well, why not run the iPad app? And so

Leo Laporte (00:44:41):
Now, so I'm discord running over there or IRC. Exactly.

Jason Snell (00:44:43):
And it's the version that runs on iOS. But you can just move your mouse over there. Control and control

Leo Laporte (00:44:49):
It. Oh, I've one of the things I often am doing is running YouTube videos while I'm coding or learning something at the same time. And it's nice to have a little screen there that I can watch the video on. So really? Yeah. I mean, it's look, you can still touch it. It's not like, it's not like it's adding a huge amount of functionality, but it, you know, it's, that's

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:08):
How I convince myself that I didn't need apples monitor at all because I said to myself, I've got the 12.9 M one iPad pro. Really

Leo Laporte (00:45:15):
Nice.

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:16):
So that display is phenomenal. I

Leo Laporte (00:45:18):
Do a lot. That's

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:18):
All you need. Like I

Leo Laporte (00:45:19):
Better than the studio display.

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:21):
Yeah. And I double check a lot of work and reference work on it. So I'm like, all right, I can keep my 47 inch monitor and my TV monitor and just use the pro as my official apple display to check everything and take all my color stuff. Right. So that's a,

Leo Laporte (00:45:34):
But you were running a 16 inch me book pro,

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:37):
Which is a Frisbee. It's gone. My, my, my iPad pros and my bag. But this is, this is already sold. This is gone away.

Leo Laporte (00:45:43):
Is that an I nine? Or is that an M one?

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:44):
This is the O max. You're getting rid of

Leo Laporte (00:45:46):
It. Yeah. A

Owen JJ Stone (00:45:47):
Max I've had it for three more days before I could have returned it at the store. So now I'm gonna sell it almost at full price. It's the same difference. Someone's gonna be very happy with this thing. Good. And it's a great machine. It's just that it's not a studio

Leo Laporte (00:46:01):
I was gonna get. I'm glad I didn't. I was gonna get that for my son. Who's a talker. Yeah. And I think I'll just, I already ordered him a Mac studio. Cause I think that'll be a perfect thing for his,

Owen JJ Stone (00:46:10):
But I videos to tell you too, you might as well get him the laptop because he is cooking and making food on the go. He could be out here mixing and moving. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:46:17):
He'll keep the laptop that he's got. He's got an I nine. He keep that. And, but he'll do a lot of the editing. I think he'll be faster for

Owen JJ Stone (00:46:23):
Him. Get, get him M one.

Leo Laporte (00:46:24):
Yeah, I think so. He's got 2 million followers in TikTok now, did you

Owen JJ Stone (00:46:28):
See that really, by the time I come back, it'll be 6 million world.

Leo Laporte (00:46:31):
Yeah. It's pretty amazing. He gonna be

Owen JJ Stone (00:46:34):
His, his

Leo Laporte (00:46:34):
Is gonna be on access Hollywood teaching Mario Lopez, how to make a McRib sandwich. Oh, I think this week or the next

Owen JJ Stone (00:46:41):
And that, that Caribbean pesto is the jam. That's his thing is it's impressive. He

Leo Laporte (00:46:46):
It's good. It's good. I know how I now know how Frank Sinatra felt. I now know how Donald Trump feels when the junior exceeds the senior speaking of nothing, this deep fake, did you see this of Linsky saying surrender is kind of terrifying? It, I don't think it fools anybody. No. This was posted on Facebook course. They pulled it down immediately. I don't speak Ukrainian, but this is a deep fake of the president of Ukraine telling his soldiers to surrender. It's over. Do you? I, I hope it didn't work. I think it's obviously

Iain Thomson (00:47:29):
Yet. I, I think it, people clocked onto it very quickly and also they got the news out fast. But yeah, I mean, if you are, if you don't have access to an open media to, you know, open media and you're living in Russia and you only got state sponsored stuff and they showed that,

Leo Laporte (00:47:46):
It's a nice try. Yeah. It's a, a nice try. And I worry, this is the beginning, right? We're gonna see a lot more of this kind of thing.

Iain Thomson (00:47:53):
Oh, this is, this is definitely going to be a healing

Leo Laporte (00:47:55):
Thing, Owen. And if you look at that, can you tell it's a deep fake,

Owen JJ Stone (00:47:58):
So

Leo Laporte (00:47:59):
I guess his voice sounds a little, let me play the audio.

Owen JJ Stone (00:48:04):
The real problem is whether you recognize it quickly in your mind or in your eyesight, we're at the, the level. Now within two more years, you won't know the difference, right? Yeah. there's so many things where people send me something and I'm like, that's photoshopped. And they're like, no, it's not. And you run it through something. And you could tell, because at this point telling me something's photoshopped or not, unless you put a shark on my head and it looks ridiculous is really hard to know. The skill level is so advanced and gotten to this level where now even the audio. So imagine you don't even need to see that this, even the setup of that makes you question that the legitimacy of it, the, the background and all that kind of stuff instantly makes your mind like, oh, no, but imagine just being on a open broadcast radio and hearing a message, go out over the radio and Barack Obama's voice, right? I don't, and you're in the middle of closet in the dark with no sun, you hear that voice, you know exactly what it is. So to hear a certain message come out and it's very

Leo Laporte (00:48:56):
Easy to do audio defense now,

Owen JJ Stone (00:48:58):
Very credible audio in two years, it's really gonna become,

Leo Laporte (00:49:01):
I'm not actually here, cause I didn't really want to be in studio. So I'm, I'm a clone

Owen JJ Stone (00:49:05):
Avatar,

Leo Laporte (00:49:06):
Leah avatar. Yeah.

Jason Snell (00:49:07):
My, if, if I wanna be optimistic, what I'll say is that I hope that our media literacy means that there is a limited window where this stuff will work. And if we work really hard, we can make that window as small as possible. It's

Leo Laporte (00:49:21):
A bit of a race though,

Jason Snell (00:49:22):
Where people, it is a race and the people who are gonna do bad, deeds are gonna be the ones who can find a way to slide in there before our defenses go up. But I do think people are learning you about things that are fake. And the deep fake is a great example where a couple of years ago everybody would've been like, oh my God. And now they're like, oh yeah, I saw that thing with Tom cruise, deep faked. I, I, and they start to get it. And we start to have to build in another level where everything like, I've been noticing that a lot of organizations like Bellingcat are doing verification of videos in Ukraine of attacks on video or reports or anything like that. And that becomes like an important part of journalism is the validation of what we see did that really happen. And that's great. Like, I know that it's terrible that this is going on and that there are gonna be places where people get misled. But if I have any optimism about it, it's that it looks like we're trying to build up some structures to teach people that they can't just trust it when they see it. But it's so hard cuz it's human nature to just trust that voice or that face that you know so well

Owen JJ Stone (00:50:28):
And to human nature. Is that what you said? That's also the saddest part of what goes on right now in the world. I show someone a picture of a, a video of a cat falling off a tree that's staged. That's not real. It's not

Leo Laporte (00:50:39):
Instantly like, and I bet Leah, so your daughter does that faster than anybody. Right?

Owen JJ Stone (00:50:43):
Any anyone under 24 immediately you send them, I'm thinking, it's like, oh they did that for jokes. They you're already conditioned not to believe in spontaneity in genuine you're raise. And happines sometimes for truth. It does. It does, like you said, we're, we're, we're naturally as humans adjusting to. Okay, well CGI not real fake. Yeah. I

Iain Thomson (00:51:03):
Mean there's also a tech fix here to be had, cuz there's been a lot of interesting work. We using AI systems to spot these kind of things and to build up fingerprints of them and just make it a lot easier to, you know, if you see a video just to have a little button by the side of it saying, we believe this is fake would solve an awful lot of the issues. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:51:24):
Well it doesn't Facebook do there now. Oh.

Iain Thomson (00:51:26):
With some things, but it's a, not like not exactly a hundred percent, but,

Jason Snell (00:51:29):
And then you're automatically applying your AI to it, which they, a lot of that's not being done automatically, but it can be done right. Where you apply some AI to the video and you say this can't be real. The lighting isn't, you know, there are, there are the pixels aren't right. Like analysis that human eyes, can't see.

Leo Laporte (00:51:44):
There's another side effect to this, which is so something that I think the Russians have been putting forward for at least five years, which is don't trust anything. So if it undermines your sense of anything being true, that is also very detrimental. That's destructive as well. If you have no source of truth at all,

Jason Snell (00:52:04):
Although one of the things that's been happening in the run up to this war, but actually is the approach by NATO and especially like the us intelligence committee or community has been

Leo Laporte (00:52:16):
Wasn't that smart of them to, to they inoculate

Jason Snell (00:52:19):
This. Yeah. They, they kept saying, here is what Russia is doing.

Leo Laporte (00:52:21):
Here's what they're gonna do. Right.

Jason Snell (00:52:23):
They are going to invade. Yeah. And Russia, no, we're not gonna invade. And then they invade and they're like, well, here's what they're gonna do. They are of starting to claim that there are, are chemical weapons, depots that's because they're planning chemical attacks. And, and that is a,

Leo Laporte (00:52:35):
Isn't that smart, a

Jason Snell (00:52:36):
New use of intelligence to where they're trying to be basically transparent and say, we're gonna just say everything we think is gonna happen because it makes it harder for the other side to play the game.

Leo Laporte (00:52:46):
But even that was an uphill battle cuz I saw people saying, oh yeah, just like you said, yellow cake it was a problem in Iraq and let's invade, we, we have a historic distrust of our intelligence meeting. Yeah. But the more they do this and are proven right. Which they have been the better. And I thought that was a very interesting strategy to inoculate us against disinformation by saying here's what they're gonna tell you. Imagine

Jason Snell (00:53:08):
Using information to counteract disinformation.

Leo Laporte (00:53:11):
Yeah. Very smart. Okay.

Iain Thomson (00:53:12):
Birthday. I mean Russia pretty much invented the whole concept of disinformation under the communist and they, they do it very, very masters,

Leo Laporte (00:53:20):
Well masters, masters of

Iain Thomson (00:53:21):
It. But yeah, as, as they were saying at the start, they're gonna hold a false flag operation that'll, you know, lead off with the invasion and that sort of thing. And yes, it does draw their Fang

Leo Laporte (00:53:30):
Somewhat. So what's the deal with TSI Gabbard cuz she was the one who's spreading that Russian propaganda. It's kind of interesting. You

Jason Snell (00:53:36):
Know, I don't think, I don't think we can legally suggest that she's a Russian asset, but you know, who

Leo Laporte (00:53:42):
Knows? I mean that was an interesting thing. Speaking of mistakes, you wanna check your email very important. Check your email story telegram. Didn't check its email and now it's banned in Brazil. Whoops says the verge. This is an article for Mitchell Clark pav Valora who's the CEO and founder of telegram. Okay. So I says we, we, we sent a take down request to telegram saying you know if you don't take this down, we're gonna ban you. We're gonna suspend the app in Brazil, by the way, it seems like the Brazilian Supreme court has a thing about doing this. Remember they tried to do with WhatsApp and there was practically a revolution. Well

Owen JJ Stone (00:54:24):
What WhatsApp does the backbone?

Leo Laporte (00:54:26):
Everybody uses it in Brazil. I think they can get away with it with telegram cuz it's not quite so popular. It's not so doof put out a statement saying it seems we had an issue with emails going between our telegram corporate addresses and the Brazilian Supreme court from now on. We're gonna have a dedicated email address for takedowns. The court sent it to an old general purpose, email address and we never saw it. And sorry guys. 

Owen JJ Stone (00:54:56):
That's, that's hilarious. It's weird that that can even be a possible thing.

Jason Snell (00:55:01):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know startups and, and companies that grow out of startups often have art. So disorganized,

Leo Laporte (00:55:08):
I miss emails all the time. I can

Jason Snell (00:55:10):
Understand that. And they have like, they don't,

Leo Laporte (00:55:12):
We have many addresses

Jason Snell (00:55:13):
And they did. They didn't have somebody who's paying attention to Brazil or they had an old email somewhere that's the person was checking that it's not, I

Leo Laporte (00:55:20):
Totally spam folder. Right. Too many links. Yep. Probably was Phish. That's a good answer.

Jason Snell (00:55:26):
Probably Brazil.

Leo Laporte (00:55:28):
Yeah. Too many

Jason Snell (00:55:29):
Brazil who Brazil is this the

Leo Laporte (00:55:31):
Brazil DAV wrote on behalf of the team. I apologize to the Brazilian Supreme court for our negligence. We definitely could have done a better job. You think,

Iain Thomson (00:55:43):
You know, it's just good creep. It's this 1 0 1 stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:55:47):
And also, so to be fair, telegram was dealing with other issues, particularly in Russia. They maybe had a lot of people answering those emails. You know, there might have been some other stuff going on. So I hope that they're able to apparently tens of millions of Brazilians use telegram according to doof. So check your email, I'll check your span

Owen JJ Stone (00:56:09):
That they probably those, all those people most likely signed up when WhatsApp went down you're right ago and everybody you're because that, that literally shut down three quarters of the world. People don't realize, you know, oh my Instagram's messed up. Who cares about your Instagram? Yeah. This is the only telegram talk to my sister about ordering fish for our restaurant. Like businesses run on WhatsApp and certain places in the world. So I'm sure they got a boost. Oh yeah. When it went down, that's why everybody's like going telegram. That

Leo Laporte (00:56:36):
Telegram got a real bumper. Remember when that sounds

Owen JJ Stone (00:56:39):
Like a lot face

Leo Laporte (00:56:40):
Facebook or what WhatsApp changed its policy. It's a yeah. Policies and everybody signed up for telegram. That was

Jason Snell (00:56:47):
Issue because telegram has the most sort of like specific encryption and privacy policy.

Leo Laporte (00:56:52):
But telegram is not a good encryption. I wouldn't really telegram.

Jason Snell (00:56:55):
They have the guy in Brazil now though. Yeah. They, they pro made that promise. Like we're gonna, we're gonna, we got, we got a guy. Well

Leo Laporte (00:57:01):
That's, you know, don't wouldn't you hate to be that guy there, there that, I mean, that's what Russia and China both said you gotta have an office in country. Yeah. So we know who to throw in jail. If you don't comply with our requests, who volunteers for that job, Owen J stone.

Owen JJ Stone (00:57:17):
I would volunteer for that job. You have any MacBook ultras I could buy with the hazard pack.

Leo Laporte (00:57:22):
Sign The deal. Lot of good in Siberia, dude, look,

Owen JJ Stone (00:57:25):
Look, I trust me. It'll be negotiated. Okay. It'll be worth it.

Leo Laporte (00:57:29):
Get me out of the Goog.

Owen JJ Stone (00:57:31):
I'll be deleting everything. I'll be checking every email. I won't sleep with one eye open. I'm checking every email nothing's getting past me for the right price.

Iain Thomson (00:57:38):
Yeah. You see, when it comes to messaging signal all the way in Moi you trust. And then, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:57:43):
I agree, there you go. Hundred percent, although he no longer runs signal. Does that

Iain Thomson (00:57:47):
Matter? True. No, but I mean, he, he's got, he's got a good team there. Yeah, I think so. And they're very much on side. The, the exposure he did of the Saudi Arabian government was just hilarious. When they approached him to build surveillance network and he was like, oh, tell more, told what exactly. Then publish everything. And it was just like, oops, read that you, yeah, somebody's getting fired in

Leo Laporte (00:58:12):
Vimeo. Another email you might wanna not ignore is spinning sending out big bills to content creators. Because apparently they changed their their deal. They want everybody to know that Vimeo know is not an indie YouTube. We are not a place to put your videos. We are for business B2B. And so a number of content creators got thousands of dollar bills. If they want, you know, pay up or get off our platform,

Owen JJ Stone (00:58:41):
They're gonna get off the platform. The, and it's sad because a, I understand the premise of what they're doing and Vimeo is if you wanted to be elegant. And if you wanted to eat an Italian restaurant, instead of McDonald's, YouTube is McDonald's is there's one every corner it's out there. Vimeo is like, I'm a professional. I have a real, I want a clean player. I don't want you clicking into some kid getting hit over the back. They were to whle bat or anything crazy. I just wanna display my work. Do

Leo Laporte (00:59:10):
You have any video 

Owen JJ Stone (00:59:11):
Videos? I do miss client work, so it's private and

Leo Laporte (00:59:14):
That's how they want it to be.

Owen JJ Stone (00:59:15):
Yes. But again, even if I let's say I'm semi-popular and I wanted to have a real, let's say I'm an actor and I'm sending my reel out to places and it happens to get out or something, a sketch that I have, and it happens to get popular. Great. For me, bad for me because, Hey, look, I'm still just this indie guy trying to put something out there and it caught a wave, which is great. But now I get this bill and guess what? It didn't get picked up by a studio guys. Like I don't have this money to do it. So it's a weird balance. But again, I Vimeo has a very clean, beautiful player and it doesn't, I love it. Bring you outside of the house. Yeah. So those bills are just rough for some people that are using the service, you can't can't foot, the bill,

Leo Laporte (00:59:54):
When the verge exposed, this Vimeo realized this was a very good PRRC have actually changed it. You have a two tear terabytes.

Iain Thomson (01:00:01):
It was such a we word state when they just, obviously we, we, we would like to, we support our customers any way possible. Yeah. You got call. Maybe let's not, not overdo this.

Leo Laporte (01:00:13):
Yeah. But that would be a scary email again. Oh, you owe us $3,500 for the next year. If you want to keep your videos out.

Owen JJ Stone (01:00:19):
And again, for a working professional that you know, for a smaller business or something like that, that's a pretty hefty bill for something that you're using that is, could be the backbone of what you're trying to put out and produce a lot of restaurants and stuff. Use it for things like that. So again, the volume versus what you might get on a holiday season is it's just weird, but they backtrack, they fix it up. So we're, we're, we're good. Now

Leo Laporte (01:00:43):
Vimeo is owned by a big Hollywood agency, Barry Barry DI's IAC. So I wouldn't expect them to be like altruistic and all nice. And here story of videos here

Owen JJ Stone (01:00:55):
And to be, and to be fair it's not free to host the quality videos that are being put up on VIM either. Well, you

Leo Laporte (01:01:01):
Key stage though, is you two it's giving it away. What's you know, I mean, YouTube is amazing, right?

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:05):
Yeah. Like I said, McDonald's yeah, they're global. They're on every corner. They've got the infrastructure, the bandwidth, the advertising. That's the other thing too. That's nice about veil. Like I'm not getting spamed by soccer ads and other things like I'm just there to consume for your use quality content.

Leo Laporte (01:01:21):
It's the right place

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:23):
For certain things. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:01:24):
For certain things. But we still post on YouTube for mass appeal. Yes.

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:28):
Yeah. Like I said, I can't say, and

Leo Laporte (01:01:29):
It's free. Yeah. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:30):
Free. It's free. It's for me. And they want like, you can put up like three day movies now. Like I remember when YouTube, you had like two minutes, then it went to 10 minutes. So you lost your mind

Leo Laporte (01:01:39):
Half allowing you to put a half an hour up now. That's right.

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:41):
Is

Leo Laporte (01:01:41):
That good

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:42):
Or bad? That is great. Is

Leo Laporte (01:01:43):
I think who wants to watch a half hour TikTok?

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:46):
Huh? Well, first of all, when it get, when it gets to be a half an hour, it's no longer a TikTok. Its a podcast. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:01:51):
I know.

Owen JJ Stone (01:01:51):
I know once they hit 10 minutes, it wasn't, it wasn't TikTok anymore. Yeah. Because in general, you know, as a Ranier, myself, it's hard to consume anymore than, you know, two minutes at a time with someone blabbing about swipe up, swipe up, swipe up, you get, get 10 minutes in there. You get half an hour in there. Now I could do a half of a power hour. I could have a video gaming session. You know, we could do all kinds of fun stuff in 30 minutes on the TikTok. Have

Leo Laporte (01:02:13):
You looked at the Amazon amp platform? That's their new clubhouse basically. But you, they have a deal with all the record labels. So you can put in music.

Owen JJ Stone (01:02:22):
That's very interesting to

Leo Laporte (01:02:23):
Me. Yeah. And you could DJ it and you could take calls

Owen JJ Stone (01:02:27):
That

Leo Laporte (01:02:27):
That's kind of interest. We did it on Wednesday. I did a pre-show for this week in Google. I got a whole listener. It was so exciting.

Owen JJ Stone (01:02:34):
Well, so that was gonna be my statement to why I, I haven't really tried write it because everything, if you, if I mention anything of Amazon product to someone, they look at me like I'm trying to beat them and Rob them, Hey, have you watched such and such, oh where's it at on Amazon prime now they have Amazon. They have Amazon prime. Everybody has it, but they don't want, they refuse to go to it. To like this show is amazing. Interesting. Okay. No. Yeah. My daughter said, I asked my daughter, she was, we have apple music and we have Spotify and I'm like, we

Leo Laporte (01:03:05):
Don't need all that. I was

Owen JJ Stone (01:03:05):
Like, I was like, can you talk your mom into paying for Spotify? And so I can just have apple. You could have both. And so she says to me, she's like, no, because mom uses Amazon music and we both looked at each other like, Ugh. And I know better. And I still did it. And I'm like, your mom's using that. You know what Amazon means it's free. And it's what she pays

Leo Laporte (01:03:22):
For. It's high risk.

Owen JJ Stone (01:03:23):
She does it. But again, I, in my mind, I'm like Amazon it's Amazon and I forgot. I haven't, it's free to me. I've never turned

Leo Laporte (01:03:29):
It on. I never, as, as a prime member, never

Owen JJ Stone (01:03:31):
Thought of pressing the button. So it's kind of interesting. It's very interesting. The way that

Leo Laporte (01:03:34):
The is Amazon a bad brand name.

Owen JJ Stone (01:03:36):
It not they're Amazon. They're the, the yin and yang of the universe. It's like everyone hates, but they need them. It's like saying Walmart and they're. Yeah. Nobody wanted

Leo Laporte (01:03:44):
Walmart

Owen JJ Stone (01:03:45):
Music and their products. Like I said, like, I watch a lot of their premium content on shows, but it took me a minute to get into it. And now that I'm into it, I pop it on like once a month find something new. Great, cool. It's not Netflix yet. But when you tell another person, even though they have it general people don't want to touch their yeah. Where do I put my photos? Hey, you have a, a prime account. Right? Just move it there. Everyone was so upset about Google saying, they're gonna charge. I said, well, you got prime prime. I'm I'm not giving Amazon my photos. I'm not doing, I'm not doing that money, but you did it for Google. Like you trust Google. Yeah. But you don't. I, I it's freedom. I'm trying to give you the free option. Cause that's what you want. But that's the, my from, I feel from general public about Amazon products besides Amazon. So

Leo Laporte (01:04:26):
Speaking of clubhouse, apparently Putin forgot to shut the door on clubhouse. He's closed down friendly funds use for it. Yeah. Maybe we shouldn't say this out loud, but I don't think Putin's watching TWiT.

Owen JJ Stone (01:04:38):
No,

Leo Laporte (01:04:38):
Don't think so. Probably. Okay. Maybe one of his apparat chicks is keeping an eye on us. Russians have blocked Instagram, TWiTtter, Facebook TikTok was suspend suspended services in Russia because of the fake news law. Telegram says we're not gonna give any user data over. So it's widely used in a, apparently nobody knew about clubhouse. So clubhouse is now a great place for Russians to go to share their dis you know, dislike of the war, which I think is kind of interesting. We've I don't know. I haven't used clubhouse in a long time, but

Owen JJ Stone (01:05:16):
Clubhouse is a, a weird party. Like when I, when I check in, yeah, like it's, I think it's cuz of who I follow it's either NFTs or

Leo Laporte (01:05:25):
It was too much Bitcoin bro, for me. And that's why I stopped doing it,

Owen JJ Stone (01:05:28):
You know? Yeah. Or like the, the groups are very finite. So sometimes I've stumbled into like women's groups and I'm like, am I allowed to be here? Can I list? I won't say anything. I just wanna listen and find out what's going on. So people, if

Leo Laporte (01:05:40):
You made your handle aena you could go

Owen JJ Stone (01:05:42):
In. I could definitely go with that. Yeah. I could definitely get, I just wasn't about to bun you phone just so I could use, you know, just use it

Leo Laporte (01:05:47):
Cause it's just to use clubhouse. Yeah. Well, so this is what's I think interesting about clubhouse. It continues on, even though it's not, you know, the flavor of the month anymore, but it is a great place for a, an affinity group to go. Yeah. And so Russians have discovered, this is a way that they can freely talk about the war. And they, in fact, there are apparently hundreds and hundreds of channels now of antiwar sentiment in clubhouse.

Owen JJ Stone (01:06:11):
It's good. They can find community and have messaging because that's the one thing, again, thankfully for us being an America, we haven't had wars at our shore, but when people don't understand is that even on any side of conflict, there are people inside that conflict that do not agree with what the leaders are doing. So for them to have some kind of outlet and community is great because at the end of the day, when you sit there and say, oh, well we want the Russians to overt throw what, okay. It's hard to do that when they shut down everything on you. So I'm glad that they're finding an outlet, which most things happen in the world. Human beings find a way to find each other. And so that's good.

Leo Laporte (01:06:50):
Apparently, according to wall street journal Westerners are using text messaging to text normal everyday Russians about the war, send them messages about the war, a whole database of 140 million email addresses. And 20 million cell phone addresses was leaked by a group of Polish programmers and Americans and others in the west have been calling and emailing saying,

Owen JJ Stone (01:07:17):
I hope. See now, see I'm I hear that. And all I think is, is I'm sitting here getting robo calls. How do they get one number?

Leo Laporte (01:07:23):
Who is this?

Owen JJ Stone (01:07:24):
What is going on? Wait a, are we the

Leo Laporte (01:07:26):
Patties now? That's hi, your auto warrantys expired. And you know,

Owen JJ Stone (01:07:34):
That would freak me out. I'm like, yeah. What?

Leo Laporte (01:07:39):
Anyway, let's take a little break fun to have real people in studio. Not drunk though. You sure you don't wanna beverage at this

Owen JJ Stone (01:07:49):
Point? Yeah, where's the liquor cabinet

Leo Laporte (01:07:51):
Adult beverage. I have one it's over there. I'm an adult. It's over there you go. Find something. Hey, pay

Owen JJ Stone (01:07:55):
These bills.

Leo Laporte (01:07:56):
Explore while I pay the bills. Our sponsor today, this segment as new Relic love new Relic. And if you're a software engineer, ASIS admin, a dev op, you're gonna love new Relic too. Cuz you know the worst thing in the world, middle of the night phone rings, beeper goes off, text messages, start pouring in. Something's broken the server's down. The database is chugging. Your queries aren't going through and you're going, oh no. And here's the problem for more than half of the companies out there in the world. And this is from a study from new Relic. They don't have network ability implemented. Only half of all organizations have implemented observability for networks and systems. And if you don't have it and something goes wrong, you are in the dark. You don't know, but it won't happen. If you get new Relic, new Relic can tell you instantly what's wrong so you can fix it and go back to bed.

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Owen JJ Stone (01:11:12):
Not only did they make it, it's fully stocked out there. We, we drank some of your moonshine, something we

Leo Laporte (01:11:19):
Oh, did you put something in there?

Owen JJ Stone (01:11:20):
No, no.

Iain Thomson (01:11:20):
We just tried to tried to short it. Just like, wow. That's

Leo Laporte (01:11:24):
Really of what Mecal or you don't even know what it,

Iain Thomson (01:11:27):
The

Owen JJ Stone (01:11:27):
Whiskey moon shine. That's so

Leo Laporte (01:11:29):
Something called whiskey mu

Owen JJ Stone (01:11:31):
Yeah. They had a name

Leo Laporte (01:11:32):
That okay. I don't know. I dunno.

Iain Thomson (01:11:34):
Yeah. Well I'm not draw

Owen JJ Stone (01:11:37):
Obviously the good stuff is locked away somewhere. So I need your keys.

Leo Laporte (01:11:41):
Oh no, I know. I, you know what the problem is? I'm I'm a little busy here. Oh yeah. You gotta show. I I would, I gladly show you it's in the cabinet above up above the where all the vinegar is and the salt and in this right up, up above there. Well,

Owen JJ Stone (01:11:55):
Let's talk about a show and I'll run on

Leo Laporte (01:11:57):
Again. Full of liquor.

Owen JJ Stone (01:11:58):
I'll check. I just look for the fanciest bottle. I might have already taken it. That's why it's a goat cup, but

Leo Laporte (01:12:03):
We'll discuss that later. Let's see. MGM deal done. Amazon gets eight and a half billion dollars worth of nothing. Actually they get James Bond. Yeah,

Jason Snell (01:12:12):
Half James.

Leo Laporte (01:12:14):
They didn't even get all of James Bond.

Jason Snell (01:12:15):
Well it's like Elon productions, the broccoli family owns part of James Bond and they have to, well, no, they, they own part of James Bond period and they have to like, they produce it and they have to approve of it and stuff. So it's not like lockbox

Leo Laporte (01:12:28):
Barrel shows how desperate companies are for S for content and especially for catalog.

Owen JJ Stone (01:12:34):
Well, not only are you desperate, but you're in a situation where there's four quarters on the table. And if you take two of 'em, there's only two left and I better get one and I've gotta get it now. So because the whole sharing and cutting off things. Yeah. It makes people upset. You know, people wanna look at Netflix and watch the office every day for the rest of their lives. And when it comes off six months, they lose their mind. Mm. So, you know, you gotta, it's, it's a finite source.

Iain Thomson (01:13:00):
I think the, the Amazon one also really sort of showed up the, the problem you've got in regulation in this country, in that I'm pretty sure can, would've liked to have blocked this deal if she'd had the ability, but because the Senate is not getting a new democratic FTC member,

Leo Laporte (01:13:17):
You talking about Lena con the chairman of the FTC. Yeah. So she doesn't have enough votes on the, on the,

Iain Thomson (01:13:22):
She doesn't have enough votes because they're refusing to appoint a democratic FTC member. And it's, it's a, a pain because you desperately need more competition in this country. And B that's just a wrath of can headline waiting to happen of that. So, you know,

Leo Laporte (01:13:38):
So finally you get to Raider obsidian, creed three legally blonde three, some of the big titles. They're they're they're

Jason Snell (01:13:46):
Yeah. Don't forget Stargate. One of my favorite.

Leo Laporte (01:13:48):
Stargates a good show. Franchise Stargate.

Jason Snell (01:13:52):
Yeah. That's an Amazon property now. Right. Did you see though, the E approved this deal with the sort of saddest backhand to MGM ever? They said we approved this because MGMs content cannot be considered. Must have,

Leo Laporte (01:14:06):
Oh, shoot on

Jason Snell (01:14:08):
Man. So were they 5 billion?

Leo Laporte (01:14:10):
Ben, her Holz guys hail GI Joe burn.

Jason Snell (01:14:14):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:14:15):
GIJ not so much the Rocky series. That's pretty good stuff. Yeah. Rocky

Jason Snell (01:14:19):
Series, but MGM classic MGM already sold off back in the day Turner era. Yeah. Most of its catalog. So what, what MGM is a holding company as a very weird collection of catalog, log stuff and franchises. It's that's why it's not considered a must have. Yeah, but it was something. And I really keep wondering where the musical chairs game is gonna stop because there's still some stuff out there. I read a piece this week about how now that CBS and Viacom have merged together and become paramount, the next order of businesses for them, if they can find somebody to unload CBS television to, because once they get rid of their broadcast network, they can sell the rest of the company to Comcast or majority

Leo Laporte (01:15:04):
Of

Jason Snell (01:15:04):
Media. Right. So one of the other companies and,

Owen JJ Stone (01:15:06):
And that, and they're doing that because they get annoyed one, the paramount beast that is a new streaming services, like, okay. But Warner brothers owns a lot of the CBS content. So I'm not gonna go sign up for paramount because I can get Sheldon and stuff like that on HBO max. And so it's a tug

Jason Snell (01:15:23):
Is still there.

Owen JJ Stone (01:15:24):
Yep. It's a tug of war of what's going on and who's doing what, and I'll tell you what, Mr. Laport,

Leo Laporte (01:15:29):
What Mr. Vander pump rules

Owen JJ Stone (01:15:31):
I don't and ask you for, we can text.

Leo Laporte (01:15:36):
We got a lot of old shows, got a lot of old shows, shows they don't age, all that. Well, look, if you wanna know about windows Vista, I got a show for you. Don't

Owen JJ Stone (01:15:44):
Don't lie to the people. I'm it's good content.

Leo Laporte (01:15:47):
It's good content, good content. You can broker that. I can

Jason Snell (01:15:49):
Run a streaming service. I'm smart. Not like

Leo Laporte (01:15:53):
There is exactly there is on TWiTtch, a a stream of ancient computer shows. Most of which they're getting from the internet archive, like old computer Chronicles. Oh yeah. They have a show of mine, which I wish I thought where there were no copies left, but apparently they got one and they just run that 24 or seven. I don't know if anybody watches

Owen JJ Stone (01:16:14):
It. Somebody's watching it.

Leo Laporte (01:16:15):
It must be right.

Owen JJ Stone (01:16:16):
Somebody's watching it. Somebody's watching us right now. Somebody's

Leo Laporte (01:16:19):
So what's really happening is broadcast is dying and streaming is coming.

Jason Snell (01:16:24):
Yeah. Or at least broadcast is a very different business from streaming. And it has a bunch of regulations because it's over the air airwaves. Right. And think

Leo Laporte (01:16:31):
It'll CBS will continue. Yeah.

Jason Snell (01:16:33):
Well actually, if you look back to the Fox deal where the Murdoch family sold Fox to Disney, but they split off the Fox broadcast network, the channels

Leo Laporte (01:16:44):
And,

Jason Snell (01:16:45):
And the cable channels. Yeah. That do news. And they took that separately. And one of the reasons is that they move is that Disney owns ABC. And so they couldn't literally could, would not sell the Fox broadcast network to the owner of ABC. So they split it off. I think that's the thought process behind what may be going on at paramount is they need to unload CBS and CBS news. And there's a business to be run there, but it's a real different business. And it's not a gross

Leo Laporte (01:17:10):
Business, not the same as the

Jason Snell (01:17:10):
It's not gonna excite investors. And then they can sell their catalog to the highest bid. And the truth is paramount. I mean, somebody will get star Trek out of it. Somebody will get there's some, there's some good stuff in the catalog, but they can then try to auction it to Netflix or Disney or Warner media out or Comcast or apple or Amazon and get somebody to buy it. Cuz none of those buyers want TV stations. They just don't

Leo Laporte (01:17:36):
Want that. Well, even CNN is going to streaming. They're gonna launch in a week CNN plus. Hmm. Is that is, are, is that them saying the future is this or that's them hedging their bets?

Jason Snell (01:17:49):
It's it's both. 

Leo Laporte (01:17:51):
You talk about this a lot on your show. Yeah.

Jason Snell (01:17:53):
Yeah. I have a podcast called downstream that people can check out. That's all about this stuff. But CNN is a money maker because every person who subscribes to cable gets money puts money. Some of their cable bill goes to CNN. It's just part of how cable TV works. And so that's a lot of money and they don't want to give it up. So they're building a separate streaming service that won't anger, their cable partners. Right. And won't shut off that spigot, which is gonna shut off, but not yet. And they can build this other thing, but with discovery coming

Leo Laporte (01:18:23):
Well, how, how do they think cable operators are? I guess see it is not the same as she

Jason Snell (01:18:28):
Plus I think it's more about the contract, right? I think they have some contraction. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:18:31):
That was a problem. Tech TV. You could not. And this is way back in the day, 20 years ago. But even then the cable contract said, you may not put more than 10 minutes of your content on the internet because we want people watching the cable.

Jason Snell (01:18:43):
So it's, it's too much money. It's a little like, like sports, like baseball, can't it

Leo Laporte (01:18:46):
Up.

Jason Snell (01:18:47):
It's too much money from cable. They can't give it up. So they're trying to build a parallel product with some of the same names so that they can start at least building a foundation in streaming so that when the cable money goes away or becomes untenable, then they have something that they can migrate to. That's what they're doing. It's a hedge.

Owen JJ Stone (01:19:03):
We're at the point right now where I just wish that cable would just say, Hey look, you can't afford Netflix. Hulu Disney, ESPN, CNN, plus you know what you're doing? You're ending up paying for the cable service that you said was $200 and $300 a month. Yeah. Let me do this for you. Let me just knock the bill down to cable TV with your internet for a hundred bucks. Come back to us. The dinosaurs. Now the media you're right. And let's write this ship because as everything we say is network media is dying my God again, just to run off the list, paramount Disney. Now, if every who can afford besides us in this bubble to pay for, and then they get mad, cause people are sharing well.

Leo Laporte (01:19:48):
That's why I share gas

Owen JJ Stone (01:19:50):
Right now. If I could

Leo Laporte (01:19:52):
Gets too high,

Owen JJ Stone (01:19:53):
You gotta figure out

Leo Laporte (01:19:54):
Way oil is a good business. You can't share gas. Hey

Owen JJ Stone (01:19:58):
Carpool, you got my back one. Now we, Netflix

Leo Laporte (01:20:00):
Is gonna start putting up a, a little notice saying I see you sharing that password there.

Owen JJ Stone (01:20:07):
So they, the problem is with that. They don't know any difference. I'm gonna tell you, I use YouTube TV. And as I come out here and I'm traveling, it says, are you leaving your area? Have you moved? That's fine. But guess what? Everyone in the Northeast, that's, there's 62 people on my YouTube account that tip me $25 a month. They don't know my name. I can say whatever I want. Where's the camera? Youtube in the Northeast. I have 62 people using my YouTube TV account. I got, 'em all sending me $20 a

Leo Laporte (01:20:32):
Month. They send you money.

Owen JJ Stone (01:20:34):
It's $20. Better than 65. Isn't it? Yeah. And

Leo Laporte (01:20:38):
It's,

Owen JJ Stone (01:20:39):
I mean, I'm just, I'm doing right. On's things out there in America. But I get the notice when I leave the region otherwise in Atlanta now, but no one else gets the thing that says, oh, there's 22 people on your account right now. So again, go ahead they're and do what you wanna do. They're working on

Jason Snell (01:20:55):
That. Us that notice is up there because of a cable TV contract. It's the same thing, right? They're like, they're like, you must not serve

Leo Laporte (01:21:03):
Now. The locals,

Owen JJ Stone (01:21:04):
You can't watch the Lakers game, even though you're in LA don't, you're not

Leo Laporte (01:21:08):
Checking password sharing. They're checking to make sure you're not watching Philly games.

Owen JJ Stone (01:21:12):
I

Jason Snell (01:21:12):
Exactly Kubo TV. And it's got an interesting thing where you can take your tablet or your laptop anywhere. But if it's a a box, a set top box your account can only be in one region and they will. That's the one where they'll be like only one region at a time for an apple TV. And I always thought that was really hilarious, cuz it's like, anybody can use it on an iPad. Like nobody

Owen JJ Stone (01:21:33):
Cares. Exactly. It's

Jason Snell (01:21:34):
Only if you hook it up to a TV that they even check. But, but you're right. I mean, this Netflix thing is happening in, I think it's starting in south America now, but yeah, they're threatening this, you know, are you in the household? But see,

Leo Laporte (01:21:47):
I mean, I share my looks with my kids.

Jason Snell (01:21:49):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:21:49):
Me too. They're in my household. They don't live with me, but that's my family. And they also share my apple account and

Jason Snell (01:21:55):
We travel and sometimes a family travels and some of them travel and some of them don't. So how do they really, how

Owen JJ Stone (01:22:01):
Could they know? And that's what I mean about the pushback of it. Because if you really wanted to enforce this, guess what? You're going to lose money at the end of the day. That's what I mean about people

Leo Laporte (01:22:10):
Cancel,

Owen JJ Stone (01:22:12):
Not only are they gonna cancel, they're gonna find a loophole. They're gonna go somewhere else. Right? Because

Leo Laporte (01:22:15):
This was a back in the cable, TV days, this was a big cat and mouse game where people would split the cable and they would, and, and I remember direct tee. Was it direct TV or was it somebody they were, you would share the box. Oh, maybe it was like one of those cable

Owen JJ Stone (01:22:35):
Guy. It would make a hot box for you. Yeah. With all channels

Leo Laporte (01:22:38):
For you. And then, and, but then what they did is there was this real cat and mouse game. They'd sent this in shards. They'd send a little detection program down a bit at a time. And then it would assemble itself. And suddenly every, anybody lose their cable and, and we, and there would go back and forth. Was it TiVo? I kept trying to remember who it was. Somebody in the chat room chat room. Remember? So Netflix, one of the things Netflix is gonna offer, and this is in Chile, Costa Rica and Peru. This is what you were talking about is, well, if you wanna share your accounts, you can just pay a little more, pay a bit more.

Owen JJ Stone (01:23:10):
I'm paying too much.

Leo Laporte (01:23:11):
What they want you to do is think they know. So you wanna be honest. So you say, okay, fine. I'll give you a little bit more. And you're,

Owen JJ Stone (01:23:19):
But they're not a lot of people with that.

Leo Laporte (01:23:20):
You're saying what they're not gonna say is we have no idea

Owen JJ Stone (01:23:22):
Because there's a base of people, speed limit 65 miles an hour. Do you know how many people only go 70? Because it says 65. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:23:28):
Four miles.

Owen JJ Stone (01:23:30):
They told theirselves I'm good with a little bit of cheating, but I'm not really trying to break them off. Yeah. So sending this message out, it is going to get them a little money, money

Iain Thomson (01:23:36):
Just enough to feel daring. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:23:37):
Yeah. So it is gonna get them a little money and make some shareholders happy. Matter of fact, that's really what this is for. This is for shareholders and make them be proactive. And look, we're doing something we're trying. Yeah. Look over here. Nobody looked behind the curtain. We're doing it because I tell you what in Netflix, you're not gonna stop me. There's

Iain Thomson (01:23:51):
You're not gonna stop. There is an interesting VI business model in there though in that, if you're trying to actually, you know, if someone isn't a Netflix customer and you're trying to explain to them, oh, I saw this show. You should really check it out and then you can pay it like a one off feed, just so they can view one episode. That might be quite lucrative in the long run. But I agree with what you're saying. They're not taking the piss on to someone.

Leo Laporte (01:24:15):
Interesting. See, this is, this is good. This is why I gotta have these people to explain this to me cuz I don't understand it. And you come in, you explain it all to me.

Owen JJ Stone (01:24:24):
I'm I'm I'm I'm down here on a ground level. You're on the 51st floor on Leah. You're looking now.

Leo Laporte (01:24:28):
You're still at that guy. Yeah. Not so

Owen JJ Stone (01:24:30):
Bright, not a bright guy, not

Leo Laporte (01:24:31):
A bright guy selling

Owen JJ Stone (01:24:32):
The, he kind got, he kinda got put out business, selling

Leo Laporte (01:24:34):
The fire sticks over at the he's not outta baseball games.

Owen JJ Stone (01:24:37):
He's not of business. He's back. He got put out business for a little bit because they shut down a Firestick act. But now he's got a subscription base where he pays some company like a hundred bucks and he charges you $10 a month, like a cable company. Yeah. And you get all the channels. Yeah. So he's got like a thousand people paying him 10 bucks a month. I'm just waiting for the FBI to kick down his door. But not right guys back in. It's

Leo Laporte (01:24:57):
Not that different from what you're doing.

Owen JJ Stone (01:24:59):
What are you talking about? You do. Don't talk to me. I'm just here. I'm giving real reward examples. What others are doing and I've done nothing wrong.

Leo Laporte (01:25:07):
Microsoft says, no, we didn't mean to tell, publish this externally. People with windows 11 developer editions were noticing there's there's an ad in my file Explorer.

Iain Thomson (01:25:21):
It's not the first time they've done this

Leo Laporte (01:25:23):
Either. No. I mean, and, and they didn't say we're not gonna do it. They said this wasn't supposed to be. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:25:29):
Wiggle.

Iain Thomson (01:25:30):
Cool. Yeah. Okay. Thanks terribly. Sorry.

Leo Laporte (01:25:32):
This is an example of what you might see. They've I think they've turned it off now, but you're browsing around looking at your PC, your mind documents folder, and you get this and by the way, it looks like an alert, right? It's a triangle with exclamation mark, right? With confidence across documents, email in the web with a advanced writing suggestions for, from Microsoft editor. And they're really trying to upsell you a feature for office.

Iain Thomson (01:25:56):
I dunno what you

Leo Laporte (01:25:56):
May even already have, by the way. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:25:58):
It's called Grammarly.

Leo Laporte (01:26:00):
It's like Grammarly, but

Iain Thomson (01:26:01):
You can spa down by them as well. Cause I mean I'm by

Leo Laporte (01:26:03):
The way, Grammarly Ukrainian company. Yes. Yeah. They are a sponsor and a lot of people are signing up for Grammarly just to kind of send money to your Ukraine. Oh,

Iain Thomson (01:26:13):
That's I mean, that's a good idea. I was gonna say as a professional journalist, it's just kind of like, it's a bit grading when every time I try and find it, some you

Leo Laporte (01:26:20):
Think you're a writer. That's the difference. I am a writer are a lot of people wouldn't

Iain Thomson (01:26:23):
Be doing it for 25 years.

Leo Laporte (01:26:26):
Lisa swears by it because

Jason Snell (01:26:28):
I've been writing

Owen JJ Stone (01:26:28):
For 42 years.

Jason Snell (01:26:30):
I use it. But there are lots of those moments where it's like, oh, you're trying to use style and creativity, red, red underline. I'm like, no, just forget,

Leo Laporte (01:26:37):
You know what? She loves it. Sometimes it'll say, and I'm, we're not doing a Grammarly ad here, but sometimes it'll say that was a little harsh, that email. Oh, interesting. Maybe you'd like to just soften it a little bit. And she appreciates that cuz she's very direct.

Owen JJ Stone (01:26:53):
And she is she is a business woman. She has matter of, she

Leo Laporte (01:26:58):
Doesn't waste words in an email. She says says what she needs and

Owen JJ Stone (01:27:01):
It, and I appreciate that. Yeah. She gets right to the point. So that way, like, you know, sometimes you get an email it's nice to Chuck and J on a phone call, but I'm going through 13 emails

Leo Laporte (01:27:09):
I need to get and, and sweet. Yeah. Yeah. But grammar Le say, well was a little

Owen JJ Stone (01:27:15):
Grammar. Lee helps me out. Cause I, I write as I speak. And as you can tell, I speak very loosely. So it does tighten me up when I'm in work mode.

Leo Laporte (01:27:22):
Anyway, they are, you create company Skyla, which does Luminar. AI is a great photo editor. They're Ukrainian, their credit

Jason Snell (01:27:31):
Mac MACPA

Leo Laporte (01:27:32):
MACPA,

Jason Snell (01:27:32):
Which does they have apps of their own. And they also have that Mac app like a Netflix for apps. Yeah. Which is called Hoho. Now I can't remember it. Yeah. There's there are a lot a, of really surprisingly

Leo Laporte (01:27:45):
Large number. Yeah. A lot of very talented tech companies, Ukrainian programmers out there. So we're keeping them in our, our thoughts. I don't even know what's gonna happen.

Jason Snell (01:27:57):
Set app is the name of

Leo Laporte (01:27:58):
Set app

Jason Snell (01:27:59):
That's right. Of the street material and, and you know, it's, they're all distributed and they've got a lot of people outside of country. And I think that they, a Ukrainians have had seven seven-ish years of awareness that Russia might invade their country. So I think a lot of the Ukrainian business people have done the thing where our servers are on Amazon and that's what Grammarly said. Right. And we've got business offices all over the world and we have tried to get our people who are in the, in Ukraine to be safe, were to get them out and have them work outside of the country. So those businesses are largely, you know, they, they can still operate, but obviously their hearts are back in Ukraine because that's where they're from.

Iain Thomson (01:28:35):
Yeah. I mean, there's also, we were discussing this amongst ourselves last week. There's also the concern. And I think we're seeing this a lot with tech companies that have offices in Russia, there's concerned that the Russian authorities will put pressure on locals to allow them access to corporate networks. Maybe even allow them to put malware onto systems. It's

Leo Laporte (01:28:58):
There's concern about Kaspersky. For instance,

Iain Thomson (01:29:01):
I saw the German report. Yeah. I saw Eugene's response and it was a bit Weasley, to be honest,

Leo Laporte (01:29:08):
You know, it's funny Eugene K perky whose company's named after him is very well liked in the west. He goes to Davos he's you've probably met him. He's

Iain Thomson (01:29:17):
With him. Yes. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:29:19):
Exactly. You've gotten Winker with him what that means, but

Iain Thomson (01:29:21):
He's, he's an interesting

Leo Laporte (01:29:22):
Person

Iain Thomson (01:29:23):
Close, but someone who has a, a W's penis bone on his desk,

Leo Laporte (01:29:27):
It was a cha I feel like a char offensive. Yeah. That was very effective. And he has a lot of defenders in the west, but at the same time, I think there's legitimate concern that

Iain Thomson (01:29:38):
Putin could say to him at any point, give a us access and you have to keep it up. Yeah. then again, the same could happen with under the Patriot act in this country. True. But true. No, I mean, he's, he's genuinely a nice guy. Kabuki has had a lot of really bad press with no real evidence to support it, but at the, and he does say that he's offered to, you know, have an independent third party go through his code. But at the end of the day, that doesn't really,

Leo Laporte (01:30:06):
You dunno where it's stored. And one of the things cuz Persky does like a lot of anti viruses is when it finds something suspicious, maybe not even something in its definitions, but something suspicious. It uploads it to the server. And that in fact was how the NSA

Iain Thomson (01:30:20):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:30:21):
It leaked. Now it was a stupidity on the part of an NSA contractor. Nevertheless

Iain Thomson (01:30:27):
Stupidity is, is one of those central computer failings, which will always happen at, you know, the layer eight problem is always going to be with us.

Leo Laporte (01:30:37):
PCA is the word of the day from John, our board op problem exists between chair and keyboard and keyboard. Yeah. Are you telling me pep cap? Because pep cap. Oh, okay. Spacex lent or sent a bunch of Starlink terminals. Last I heard was about 15,000. Might even be more because the Starlink app is now the number one most downloaded free app in Ukraine, according to sensor tower, 21,000 downloads on iOS and Android, mostly from Ukraine. It has become the way, I guess, to get internet in in a country where the internet, maybe a little Rocky, that $21,000 was a, a downloads was a week ago. Hmm. I haven't seen anything. More recently.

Iain Thomson (01:31:25):
Yeah. When, when he first announced that I was kind of like, I thought it was a, this has publicity.

Leo Laporte (01:31:29):
It was like sending the submarine to the Thai.

Iain Thomson (01:31:32):
Yeah. Or and then insulting the person that actually got them out. But story in front of the time,

Leo Laporte (01:31:37):
It seemed very Elon.

Iain Thomson (01:31:39):
Yeah. It seemed like he was jumping on the back wagon

Leo Laporte (01:31:41):
C pap machines to hospitals instead of ventil later, is that guy he's got a reputation,

Iain Thomson (01:31:46):
I think. Yeah, he does. And it's, it's an earned reputation, but in something like this, I'm impressed. Actually they managed to get the hardware through because without the hardware it's just full of a nonsense, but they have apparently managed to get some decent amounts of hardware through.

Leo Laporte (01:31:59):
I've seen pictures of trucks unloading the terminals. So that's, that's that's impressive. At least tens of thousands.

Iain Thomson (01:32:10):
Hmm. Now if you could get some units into Russia as well, so much of that up

Leo Laporte (01:32:15):
Now, I know you were a formula one fan

Iain Thomson (01:32:17):
Ha. I was, I put six o'clock this morning to watch the race.

Leo Laporte (01:32:20):
Oh, where was the, the first race of the

Iain Thomson (01:32:21):
Season? First race of the season. Bahrain this morning eight, 8:00 AM.

Leo Laporte (01:32:26):
PT. Don't say don't tell me

Iain Thomson (01:32:27):
Anything. I no. Oh yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:32:29):
No. A more competitive formula one this year, because

Iain Thomson (01:32:33):
I've gotta say it was one of the best races I've seen in a long time.

Leo Laporte (01:32:36):
Drivers are more important. They used to be.

Iain Thomson (01:32:38):
Yep. And the aerodynamic changes on the cars mean that you can get much closer racing. 

Leo Laporte (01:32:43):
They don't need the DRS as much. The

Iain Thomson (01:32:46):
DRS is actually really useful. Cuz we saw there was a classic, like four or five laps with the lead changing.

Leo Laporte (01:32:53):
And when you get within second or two of the, well within a

Iain Thomson (01:32:57):
You, then you can open the back flap that will give you an extra 18 kilometers an hour very briefly. But yes,

Leo Laporte (01:33:04):
Which is a clever thing. So Google is sponsoring the McLaren vehicle. I don't know if you noticed

Iain Thomson (01:33:08):
This. I I'd love myself sick over the, after the, after the end of the right. It

Leo Laporte (01:33:11):
It's got Android on it. It's got the, the hub caps apparently are the colors of the Chrome browser.

Iain Thomson (01:33:17):
Yeah. Unfortu, a nice MCLE and R they're a vulnerable team. They're you know, they're very good at what they do. Last couple of seasons. They've been challenging Ferrari for third or fourth place. They've got

Leo Laporte (01:33:30):
Daniel. They've got Lambo.

Iain Thomson (01:33:32):
They have Danny. Rick. They have Lando. Great, great driver drivers. Yeah. But after today I can say that Google might consider, it might be considering, did they know going

Leo Laporte (01:33:42):
For, I don't tell me I'm gonna watch the race tonight.

Iain Thomson (01:33:44):
Okay. I went, I put it this. Okay. Without wanting to give too much away. It was physically painful to watch Danny, Rick trying to get past Williams this morning.

Leo Laporte (01:33:56):
Oh

Owen JJ Stone (01:33:56):
Williams. Can I exactly. Oh, Williams. I jump in and ask your question. When, when did, when the F1 thing start with you watching F1 racing.

Iain Thomson (01:34:03):
When did I start watching F1 1970s. He

Leo Laporte (01:34:06):
A Brit. That

Owen JJ Stone (01:34:07):
Makes more sense. What about you?

Leo Laporte (01:34:08):
You know why Netflix strive to survive?

Owen JJ Stone (01:34:10):
Survive. Right? So can I just tell you that I have, I watched a show. I got excited, you know? No. Okay. So it's like world, it's like crack cocaine. You got hooked on drugs from a friend fru it, I went over, he made me an old fashion and he he's really into it too. He put on an episode of F1, tried to get me survive. What is going on with you people and this F1 stuff. Oh man. Netflix has done it again because I've, if I hear by the F1, one more time from people who know

Leo Laporte (01:34:38):
F1 drivers and teams pretty much hate the drive to survive folks, not

Iain Thomson (01:34:42):
Professor receipt refuses to have anything to do with it.

Leo Laporte (01:34:44):
The best driver in the league for good talk to him for

Iain Thomson (01:34:46):
Good reason because they just make stuff up. I mean, in the last seat,

Owen JJ Stone (01:34:51):
But it's been very good for premier.

Iain Thomson (01:34:53):
Oh no, no. It's brought huge number of people in huge. I, I am very glad about, but I, I, I even binged watched it over last weekend and sort of live tweeted the whole thing. It, it

Leo Laporte (01:35:04):
Makes it exciting. It's like a reality

Iain Thomson (01:35:06):
To you make stuff up. Well, it's reality. You, I mean, it's like manufacturing. It's it's a docudrama. Yeah. You know, and it's Jason, are you

Owen JJ Stone (01:35:13):
On, are you on drugs?

Jason Snell (01:35:15):
No. Okay. No, I'm clean

Owen JJ Stone (01:35:17):
F1 dress

Jason Snell (01:35:17):
And I have not, I'm not, I'm not high on F1 at this moment. Are you a worder I am a word leader.

Owen JJ Stone (01:35:22):
I'm a word. Got you. See,

Leo Laporte (01:35:23):
I'm a

Owen JJ Stone (01:35:24):
Word I see when I see the whole world jumping off a bridge, I sit back and say to myself, not me, not today. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:35:30):
No, I see not the word. Show me the bridge baby. Here I come. Not F one.

Owen JJ Stone (01:35:34):
Just

Jason Snell (01:35:34):
The word I will tell you that every other sports league of any kind is extremely aware of what happened with drive to survive. Yeah. It's huge because it, it has driven so many new fans and so much interest to that sport. Yeah. And so get ready because there's gonna be drive to survive clones for sports, single

Leo Laporte (01:35:58):
Sports they're already, you know, and I bet you was a little inspired by, there's a very good series about the NFL, where they cover one team, hard knocks, hard knocks. Very good.

Owen JJ Stone (01:36:07):
It does that for them because there's, there are people that I know that don't watch football, but watch the hard knocks. Like it's a

Leo Laporte (01:36:13):
Opera

Owen JJ Stone (01:36:14):
And this, they, they're not really into football, but they watch those, like it, their thing to watch. And I'm like, just watch the they're like, no, it's not the same. It's not the back drama. It's not the private conversation. And I watch the F

Leo Laporte (01:36:24):
When you understand what goes into a football team, what goes into planning? The way they study the opponents and all that stuff, it makes it more interesting. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:36:32):
I mean, he made me watch absolute F1. I fully understand why, again, it's crack cocaine. I understand why people are on these drugs. I watch an episode of it is very well shot is very close

Iain Thomson (01:36:41):
And they have amazing access.

Leo Laporte (01:36:44):
And except for, and

Owen JJ Stone (01:36:46):
If you don't know

Leo Laporte (01:36:47):
Anything, they didn't have Mercedes in the first season. They, they wouldn't have talked to 'em and

Owen JJ Stone (01:36:50):
I don't know anything about F1, but just watching one episode. Oh, you learn a lot. You, you learn a lot of whatever their team. I don't know if it's the right thing, but I'm learning a lot of, in one episode, I know. Wow. You get a sense

Leo Laporte (01:37:01):
To know that didn't know who the drivers are. I do.

Iain Thomson (01:37:03):
It gives you, it does. It's very good in terms, in some regards of the thing

Leo Laporte (01:37:08):
Everyone's perfect for this. Cause there's only 20 teams. There's only 40 10 teams, 10 teams, only 20 drivers drive drivers. So it's, it's a very compact, easy thing to follow. There are a lot of races, all of a sudden 23

Iain Thomson (01:37:21):
This season. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:37:22):
But used to be a little more constrained. And so it's, it's doable. The only thing is in the us, you have to get up at six in the morning to watch.

Iain Thomson (01:37:29):
Well, I see, I, I, I generally the races on us time Pacific are in the we small hours in the morning. So I subscribe to streaming. Exactly. And that way I can watch the race and then pause it and go and make a cup of tea.

Leo Laporte (01:37:44):
And that sort thing, I, my YouTube TV is set up to record every race and my, if nobody like Ian tells me what happened,

Iain Thomson (01:37:51):
You seriously do not do not want to miss today's race. All

Leo Laporte (01:37:54):
Right.

Iain Thomson (01:37:54):
Watch it right to the end. See, big

Owen JJ Stone (01:37:57):
Night,

Iain Thomson (01:37:57):
It goes right down

Leo Laporte (01:37:58):
To the, we keep Bobby's story.

Owen JJ Stone (01:37:59):
Yeah. The wires, Rick

Iain Thomson (01:38:01):
Bobby, right down to the wire.

Leo Laporte (01:38:03):
I'm gonna bring it back to tech. Well, of course F1. It couldn't be more technical. This is really, and then

Iain Thomson (01:38:07):
Driving computers.

Leo Laporte (01:38:09):
I mean, it's pretty amazing.

Iain Thomson (01:38:11):
I mean, if you look at, if you actually follow one drive around on, you know, for one lap, you'll see they're reconfiguring their engine, their break balance. That's amazing is the thing. Yeah. You you're basically reprogramming a computer while pulling 5g corners that's

Leo Laporte (01:38:25):
And the physics. And that's, what's interesting about this year's cars. They, they, they are using a lot more of the body to push them down into the ground. The physics of it is fascinating too.

Iain Thomson (01:38:34):
Yeah. They, I mean the house cause problems, cuz they're particularly Mercedes are posing an awful lot and that's quite dangerous.

Leo Laporte (01:38:41):
Whatever it is. I don't want it. Don't Corpus, whatever you do. So when is eSports gonna get a drive to survive? Cuz that's it needs that to be well, that's

Owen JJ Stone (01:38:50):
Why I told aunt when he tried to tell me about watch. I'm like I was driving F one in my, in 2006. Okay. My Xbox had me. I was living in Monaco. I know what's right. And left to take, okay, I know what I'm doing. I don't need F1 show. Give me my Xbox back. And I could be an F1 racer. Cause he said, I really would like to drive one of those cars. I had to let him know he's jockey.

Leo Laporte (01:39:11):
Last time we were in Monaco. I got a hotel on the hairpin turn.

Iain Thomson (01:39:16):
Oh Roka. Yeah. I've driven down that in a normal car. Not worried.

Leo Laporte (01:39:20):
It's amazing. They a nice plaque there. And then we walked the, the most of the circuit, even through the tunnel there. Yeah. It's quite a thing. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:39:29):
I've quite a video game. I've been there. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:39:31):
You've been there. You've raced Monica. I have.

Owen JJ Stone (01:39:33):
Yeah.

Jason Snell (01:39:34):
So I, I gotta, I gotta show for you. Leo. Start here. ESS documentary called ecstasy of order. The Tetris masters. You, you can learn all about the search for the greatest Tetris players. And if you haven't seen it, go on YouTube for the, the Tetris championships matches. It is not only see actually of exciting to watch, but the answers lose.

Iain Thomson (01:39:57):
I had no idea. They were Tetris

Jason Snell (01:39:59):
Champions. Boom, Johnny,

Leo Laporte (01:40:02):
A dog. A 10 year old. Amazing documentary about Tetris. Yeah.

Jason Snell (01:40:06):
This about competitive. Tetris

Owen JJ Stone (01:40:08):
A friend comes and offers you free drugs. And what do you guys do? Click right on it. Load it right off. Let's let's just

Leo Laporte (01:40:12):
Watch the the preview. You can's

Iain Thomson (01:40:14):
Actually very, you can read it

Leo Laporte (01:40:15):
For three bucks.

Tetris Guy (01:40:17):
I believe that Tetris may well be the first virtual sport. Oh, I

Iain Thomson (01:40:22):
Was always wonder why

Jason Snell (01:40:23):
The biggest

Leo Laporte (01:40:24):
Game. So we've been talking for 10 years about the first virtual sport described

Iain Thomson (01:40:28):
As

Tetris Guy 2 (01:40:28):
Perfect. Right. Cause how would you improve it? Not just a game. It's a history. It's not just evolution.

Jason Snell (01:40:34):
See, it's strive to survive. Yeah. For here's

Leo Laporte (01:40:37):
The problem, Danny Ricardo looks like he goes to the bars. He, he knows some girls. He's a human. The people who play these games,

Jason Snell (01:40:46):
Look at this. No, no, no, no. Look at these people. You do, you, you know, you get your Netflix series. You're gonna a lot of the eSports actually. Not Tetris maybe, but a lot of the eSports people, they are kind of becoming rock stars and they have their, their attitude. And like it's, it's

Leo Laporte (01:41:00):
Gonna happen. The teams. Yeah. For league of legends and Dota two and these teams for some reason MOS really see.

Jason Snell (01:41:06):
But I do enjoy watching like 14 year old kids playing Tetris and I hilarious. That's

Leo Laporte (01:41:11):
The other thing you're watching somebody draw. You're watching somebody play football. Yes. There's a motion. There's these guys basically you watch 'em play their's slack jar.

Jason Snell (01:41:18):
Yeah. Yeah, because they're exactly cuz that's how they went. Yeah. That's the hard thing about eSports translating to, to be a drama is so way for VR, eSports, and then you'll see them flailing around stuff. So

Leo Laporte (01:41:29):
They've tried they've when you watch celebrities play on these teams and all sort sorts when

Owen JJ Stone (01:41:32):
You watch e-sports they get hyped. They, they yell at each other. So like as much as the F1 racer can sit in his car and do this and with a helmet on, I can't see his face. I can't see his motion. And

Leo Laporte (01:41:42):
I just

Owen JJ Stone (01:41:42):
Figured out,

Leo Laporte (01:41:43):
Get these guys going 80 miles an hour down a straightaway playing tennis

Jason Snell (01:41:48):
Interest.

Leo Laporte (01:41:48):
Yes. Now you gotta sport.

Owen JJ Stone (01:41:51):
No

Jason Snell (01:41:54):
Drag drag. Tetris the

Owen JJ Stone (01:41:55):
Last, the last thing I'll say is yes, these guys in F1, they remind me of like horse jockies. They get outta these cars and they, what are they? Like five, two, like five or more? It's it's

Iain Thomson (01:42:04):
A small, oh no. I mean say George Russell is, is just under six foot. Oh, okay. Your ideal height for a formula. One driver is about 5, 7, 5, 8. Okay. Yuki is well under that, but everyone loves Yuki. But it is a real problem for the tall drivers. You can be too tall for the sport.

Owen JJ Stone (01:42:20):
Yeah. An aunt was again, he was like, I, I, I would love to just do one lap. I was like, you wouldn't fit in one car and you're an InSHAPE dude. Like you're too big. You're

Iain Thomson (01:42:27):
I've, I've I've driven an F1 simulator sort of one of the factory teams and I just, you have an awesome respect for the people that can do that because they said, yeah. Okay. Well, do you wanna go in on easy mode or do you wanna go in on actual mode? And I said actual actual of course donated the thing three times just on just trying to get it to move. It

Owen JJ Stone (01:42:46):
Was amazing. And you, and you're just squished in there. I mean, I got stuck in the Tesla roaster once and I, I couldn't imagine being in the F1, I got stuck in Jason cow, Tesla when he first got, when he got his first Tesla. I

Leo Laporte (01:42:57):
Remember. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:42:58):
Sometimes.

Leo Laporte (01:43:00):
Okay.

Owen JJ Stone (01:43:00):
But God was a tee top. That's the only way I got

Leo Laporte (01:43:02):
Actually, if you watch if you watch more of the drive to survive, you see almost all these drivers do play video games. They love oh yeah. They, the driving games they play.

Iain Thomson (01:43:09):
Cause if you look at the, I mean, one of the things they have they'll have, they've now got eye level cameras. So

Leo Laporte (01:43:17):
It's very fun to watch.

Owen JJ Stone (01:43:18):
It looks like you're

Iain Thomson (01:43:19):
It's well, I mean, you can pick, you can pick which driver you want and you can have their, their actual view, but it doesn't make you realize most of the stuff is muscle memory. You know, they're not in a position where they can see the corners. They have to know it exists. They walk the track.

Leo Laporte (01:43:33):
They walk at many times really memorize. Yeah.

Iain Thomson (01:43:36):
Just to get into that muscle

Leo Laporte (01:43:38):
Muscle yout, be thinking, what am I gonna do here? You gotta, it's all we gotta be automatic. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a little break. I think you're gonna like this next sponsor on J J stone this week in tech is brought to you by Coinbase. Have you ever heard of them? You know, coin?

Owen JJ Stone (01:43:52):
I do know Coinbase

Leo Laporte (01:43:53):
Much coin such bass if you've been following right,

Owen JJ Stone (01:43:57):
Right there. The top coin, there it is.

Leo Laporte (01:43:58):
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Owen JJ Stone (01:45:00):
Thing I like not only do you learn, but they pay you to learn. So you read certain an article, you answer certain questions and you can get $3, five. Oh, I didn't know that, whatever it is that

Leo Laporte (01:45:09):
That's cool.

Owen JJ Stone (01:45:10):
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Owen JJ Stone (01:45:53):
We're literally paying you to do it.

Leo Laporte (01:45:55):
That's cool. I didn't actually know that you would have it and be into it and know all that. But I just thought maybe cuz you're a hip. Yeah. You're like with the, you know, you're with the

Owen JJ Stone (01:46:03):
Latest stuff. I'm I'm all the stuff. The things, yeah.

Jason Snell (01:46:06):
I can report from the liquor cabinet that it's called Dixie moon shine, Dixie moon shine.

Leo Laporte (01:46:12):
I can report. It's the,

Jason Snell (01:46:15):
Also the Prosecco is there. Best mates. You are love everybody in this podcast. I've I've written the pop. Okay.

Owen JJ Stone (01:46:26):
I will say it was like that. We grabbed a glass and had a shot of it. Then we're like, are we gonna get back?

Jason Snell (01:46:31):
That's good.

Leo Laporte (01:46:32):
That's like smoking in the boys room. You want do that? You can do that in the next commercial. Amazon it's been revealed, had a project IEA to discourage people from canceling their Amazon prime accounts.

Jason Snell (01:46:48):
God, sorry. I

Iain Thomson (01:46:48):
Read that. And I'd I was kinda like, of course they've got something like this in place. I mean, you you'd

Leo Laporte (01:46:55):
Be shocked.

Iain Thomson (01:46:56):
You

Leo Laporte (01:46:56):
Hadn't, it worked. You may have run into this. This is from business insider. They got internal documents. So if you went and this, this is 2017 era. Hmm. But if you went to cancel Amazon prime before you could cancel, this is a dark pattern. You will see everywhere before you could cancel. They started asking you a bunch of questions and offering you a bunch of offers. They launched this in 2017 prime cancellations dropped by 14 per cent. And when you're talking at the numbers, Amazon's talking, that's a lot of money. Yeah. The multi-step cancellation pro process, a version of which remains active according to insider. It, it basically it's not illegal, but there have been multiple complaints filed with the FTC saying you really gotta look into these dark patterns. That's the new thing. Dark patterns, dark

Jason Snell (01:47:53):
Patterns. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:47:54):
But

Leo Laporte (01:47:55):
I think lean con is very aware of dark patterns. I wouldn't be surprised if the FTC is receptive is,

Owen JJ Stone (01:48:00):
Is, is, is this dark pattern new from Comcast cable? What I've been dealing with I'm about to,

Iain Thomson (01:48:04):
For my

Owen JJ Stone (01:48:04):
Life, like try to cancel a credit card or your cable company and you'll start crying and hang up and have to regroup and call back the next weekend. Much less of moving out the state, a family member who is deceased. And you're saying, my father no longer lives. I need to close this account. It is hard.

Leo Laporte (01:48:23):
Oh, let me tell you more

Jason Snell (01:48:24):
About C HBO. It's well, he can't when

Leo Laporte (01:48:25):
I close my Facebook account, literally the first thing they do is they put up a picture of, of your friends and saying, they're really gonna be sad to see you. God. Amen. Yeah. They might as well play that. It's like talk about guilt trip.

Jason Snell (01:48:41):
Yeah. And I'm surprised they don't actually have somebody literally call you and be like, look, I just got the word that you were thinking canceling. Are you really sure? You have to tell me, tell me direct.

Leo Laporte (01:48:51):
Here's some screenshots.

Iain Thomson (01:48:52):
Wasn't there a case I think a couple of years ago about journalists recorded himself trying to cancel Comcast. And it was like, yeah, half an hour.

Leo Laporte (01:49:00):
Who was it?

Owen JJ Stone (01:49:02):
And so I used to use the trick of I'm gonna cancel, give me sale. And they did it. Then they got to the point where like no sale, no, nothing cancel. And as soon as you leave, then they spam you to death with the sale to come back. And I'm like, I tried to negotiate with you terrorist. It didn't work and it didn't work. And now you want me to come back to this abusive relationship.

Iain Thomson (01:49:23):
Now, I dunno if this works, but I was complaining about this to, to a friend and, and, and she was just like, there's a, Shiff there is a way around this. And what you do is say, no, I'm actually moving in with my partner and they already Comcast. Yeah. And they're just kinda like, oh fine. Okay. Then,

Owen JJ Stone (01:49:40):
You know, that sounds like I said, that's a good trick

Iain Thomson (01:49:44):
Making

Jason Snell (01:49:44):
Up. If they ask you who your partner is, you just say Leo,

Owen JJ Stone (01:49:48):
He's got all the services.

Leo Laporte (01:49:50):
Here's the here's the screenshot Hannah's trying to quit. Amazon prime. First thing says, Hannah, don't give up on movie night. You still have seven days left. Then it says, Hannah, save $40 and 88 cents over 12 months by switching to annual payments. And then there's the top number one button. Keep my membership, keep my membership. Be press, continue to cancel Hannah. We're sorry to see you go, please confirm the cancellation of your membership with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five completely confusing buttons. Good luck. Trying to figure out which button to cancel. I'm

Owen JJ Stone (01:50:28):
Amazed that didn't put a picture of a sad kitten up there or something this, this, and people trying to get customer service is the hardest thing to do with Amazon and yeah. Oh yeah. So it, it amazes me again when I was working in the storage during the pandemic, people were like, I can't get to customer service. And I'm like, oh, it's easy. When you know, it's fine. But most people have no idea that it's even possible to reach Amazon, to talk to anyone it's chat or nothing. And even that doesn't alleviate your problems, but you know, they get you in that funnel. And, but you'll, you'll frustra. I bought funnel cut pro for my M one Mac after I did the horrible thing of, I just did the, because I didn't know I was getting back into the Mac life. I was like, let me download the demo.

Leo Laporte (01:51:11):
Just to be clear. You don't really need the ultra. Do you?

Owen JJ Stone (01:51:16):
No, Lisa, you don't, you

Leo Laporte (01:51:18):
Don't really need the ultra. So

Owen JJ Stone (01:51:20):
Frankly,

Leo Laporte (01:51:20):
The max would be plenty. Wouldn't

Owen JJ Stone (01:51:22):
It? The max would be overkill for a spreadsheet. Don't worry.

Leo Laporte (01:51:29):
I gotcha.

Owen JJ Stone (01:51:30):
So I, I got my M one mini and I wanted to check out final cut because everyone said it was optimized for it. I did the trial just cuz I didn't wanna, I didn't know. I was getting back to the Mac life. When I got the trial, I was like, oh this is actually legit. This is really good. Let me buy it. So I purchased it. They charged my card. They never sent me me the activation. Oh man. Now let me tell you. I contacted apple. I was on the phone for 12 hours. I gave up no, not 12 hours. Let me lie. Four hours. The first time I gave up, I waited six months and I tried again, four more hours. They still never sent the email the third time after nine months, right before I got this, I said, I'm, I'm getting a professional machine. I need this. And I was about to pay for it again. Six hours on the phone. They finally got me what I needed so I could get final cut on my laptop. So talking to someone in customer service was insane. I'm like as much as apple, I talked to 20 different people, every call and no one knew how to send me a code.

Jason Snell (01:52:28):
I'm very impressed. Like apple has a phone number. You, I have been trapped where you were trapped.

Leo Laporte (01:52:34):
Call

Jason Snell (01:52:35):
Apple. Yeah. Amazon, you mentioned Amazon, Amazon like good luck trying to find a phone number for Amazon to talk to a person.

Owen JJ Stone (01:52:43):
Good.

Jason Snell (01:52:44):
Absolutely. Where I find it. Yeah. Is you Google? Yes. Call Amazon customer support. And there are webpages elsewhere, right? With the number. Right? Because Amazon does not want you to call cause cuz what? Every customer service call costs money. Cause you have to pay somebody. Yeah. So Amazon really doesn't want to talk to you

Leo Laporte (01:53:02):
From our chat room. Come. I never heard of this site account killer.com and they have how to kill accounts, all kinds of accounts. This is how to delete your Amazon prime account. But they have a how to get rid of all kinds of stuff.

Jason Snell (01:53:20):
And there are recently, there have been some laws that like in some states, at least where if you sign

Leo Laporte (01:53:24):
Up online, you

Jason Snell (01:53:25):
Be able to cancel online.

Owen JJ Stone (01:53:28):
Just which is good. Just the pro tip for all the listeners out in the world, you go to amazon.com on any web browser. Yeah. You click the three dots in the left hand corner, you scroll all the way down to customer service and then you click request a call and then they call you Ooh,

Leo Laporte (01:53:44):
Quick,

Owen JJ Stone (01:53:44):
Fastest way to do it. We live in a mobile world. There's no way to do that on your phone. Right. You have to be on the web browser, right. To get to it to happen. So again, when people are out and something's wrong with MIS deliver, whatever you wanna do, they have no way to get

Leo Laporte (01:53:56):
To anyone. But the real question is why would you ever want to kill your Amazon account? Are you insane? How do you get stuff?

Owen JJ Stone (01:54:05):
Everybody is competing now. I got Walmart delivering to me the same day. No charge. I've got targets out here

Leo Laporte (01:54:12):
From Walmart Marmar though. Really better in any way.

Owen JJ Stone (01:54:15):
Oh it might be better when I'm not paying a subscription. Yeah. For certain things,

Leo Laporte (01:54:19):
Their prime account.

Owen JJ Stone (01:54:20):
Well that people, people are now getting a lot of food delivered from Amazon. So it makes more sense having these stores like a Walmart or a grocery store to be able to provide that. Yeah. And guess what? Or if I'm a person who is disabled in some way and maybe I can't afford I'm on a fixed income and I don't use Amazon like that, but I can now get fruits, vegetables, food delivered to me for free with other options. The competition is great cuz it's making for other things to come out. But then again, we're at the same name, car and stick. How many subscriptions can I afford and survive before I'm back to paying a million dollars, open

Leo Laporte (01:54:54):
Up your Coinbase. Can you buy board apes, ape tokens?

Owen JJ Stone (01:54:59):
You, you could, I wouldn't suggested at the moment

Leo Laporte (01:55:02):
The board apes who some, somebody told me had merged with the the board yacht club had merged with the crypto zombies into a giant crypto NFT Bonanza the board AER of course the board apes yacht club, NFT project. They have announced their own crypto coin. Wow. The price of admission to purchase the cheapest of the 10,000 images on the board. Eight yacht club is $240,000 worth of E

Owen JJ Stone (01:55:37):
Fool. And that is a discount

Leo Laporte (01:55:39):
That our it's the world now knows this is Boge bogus. Right? Bogey Boge

Owen JJ Stone (01:55:46):
I've I've said this many I've said this many times and I'll say it again. How, how much would you pay for the Mona Lisa?

Leo Laporte (01:55:55):
Oh well,

Owen JJ Stone (01:55:56):
Okay. Cause my question to that at, at one point it had no

Leo Laporte (01:55:59):
It's tied to how much I could sell it for isn't it? Yes.

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:02):
It had no real value. Yeah. So anything that you design or divine or feel that is art to you, why would you pay for a McLaren versus a Ferrari, right? Why is one more expensive than the other? Well,

Leo Laporte (01:56:12):
At least you could drive that.

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:14):
What is art? You look at pictures on the wall, your emblem signifies TWiT. When people see it and they know the brand, they know at an apple, every time you look at an apple, you think of an apple icon. What value does

Leo Laporte (01:56:25):
It have? But only value is if you can sell it to somebody, some other sucker for more,

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:28):
Or if you hold onto it and then begin, everyone becomes a sucker again. How much would, if you

Leo Laporte (01:56:32):
Hold onto it, it's still not worth anything you

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:35):
Pay for the Mona lease.

Leo Laporte (01:56:36):
Well, nothing. We're

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:37):
All suckers. We're human beings. You don't want money. I spent on apple. I'm trying to con you out of the auction.

Leo Laporte (01:56:42):
I'll give you a hundred bucks. I'll give you a hundred bucks for the Mona Lisa.

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:44):
Well, there we go.

Leo Laporte (01:56:45):
Will you, will you give it to me?

Owen JJ Stone (01:56:47):
Yeah. I can print a picture up right now. I was gonna say, I think the French government might, I'm sure we got a here somewhere.

Jason Snell (01:56:53):
He's gonna, and I will sell it to you for 50. But what I'm really selling to you is a webpage that says Leo owns the Monona. Lisa that's.

Leo Laporte (01:57:00):
Now you're talking half as much. So for none of the you right?

Jason Snell (01:57:05):
A hundred percent of what? J even

Leo Laporte (01:57:06):
If it were the real Mona Lisa,

Jason Snell (01:57:08):
I'll throw it a print out too.

Owen JJ Stone (01:57:11):
Barring a, a solar flare. We're good to go with NFTs for

Leo Laporte (01:57:15):
People. Goodness. Thank goodness.

Owen JJ Stone (01:57:17):
Beanie babies. Why would people, what is the thing? Lisa, get a baby cabbage patch. You, I still get a

Leo Laporte (01:57:22):
Thing. No NFTs are for suckers. Leo and they're coming to Instagram. Yay.

Jason Snell (01:57:28):
By the way, technically beanie babies were also for suckers cuz the value of the all crash is

Owen JJ Stone (01:57:32):
No. The

Leo Laporte (01:57:33):
Only value of a beanie baby was the cuddle value. You

Owen JJ Stone (01:57:36):
No,

Jason Snell (01:57:36):
Right? At least

Leo Laporte (01:57:37):
You bought a beanie baby to sell it on. That was dumb. So

Owen JJ Stone (01:57:41):
Well, I

Jason Snell (01:57:41):
Mean, so look, every number one issue of a comic book in the nineties, right? No, this is gonna appreciate value. I hope you like reading that comic. Are

Leo Laporte (01:57:48):
You a cluster? Do you collect any anything like no,

Jason Snell (01:57:52):
No. I mean old computers now. Pretty much.

Leo Laporte (01:57:54):
That's mostly cuz nobody'll take 'em off our hands.

Jason Snell (01:57:56):
No, I go on eBay. I actually buy, I have a I have a Mac plus or actually a Mac 28 upgraded to a Mac plus that I got up and running.

Leo Laporte (01:58:03):
We should have sold you. We have the 20th anniversary met. Who got rid of, oh you got rid of it. Yeah. What, what happened to that? John? We, we just gave, it, gave it away. I

Jason Snell (01:58:11):
Oh God, that, those it

Leo Laporte (01:58:13):
Had to, they had the, those

Jason Snell (01:58:15):
Go for, for money. For money on EBA. Lot

Owen JJ Stone (01:58:17):
Money. He didn't take you to the basement. You've never been in the basement, man. Have you ever been in a basement? No.

Leo Laporte (01:58:22):
Okay. After the show, we're all going into the basement.

Jason Snell (01:58:24):
Oh God. Well Le tell my family. I love them. Leo's got,

Owen JJ Stone (01:58:28):
Leo's got Cybertron underneath some, most of his drones and he's crashed, but he has Cybertron under our feet right

Leo Laporte (01:58:35):
Now. There is no basement in this building. I just want you to know right now, you know Trey sent me Trey Ratcliffe sent me an NFT. I don't know what I did with, I think who cares? You know what he, but he's making money. Yeah. He's making he them for million. Yes. I know. It's probably worth some

Owen JJ Stone (01:58:50):
Do, do you know what? You got his

Lisa Laporte (01:58:51):
I've got his other thing in my

Leo Laporte (01:58:52):
Gym. Yeah, but you don't. Yeah. I have a photo of his, but the NFTs, not a photo. It's just ANF.

Owen JJ Stone (01:58:57):
You know, what's gonna happen to you. What you are going to be looked back at this moment. Remember, look at me in your eyes right now for a second. You're gonna remember this moment as the guy who also lost his password to his crypto wallet. These are the moments that will Haun.

Leo Laporte (01:59:10):
You know, what's great about that 10,

Owen JJ Stone (01:59:11):
15 years from now.

Leo Laporte (01:59:12):
If I hadn't lost the password, I would've sold that Bitcoin for a hundred bucks a coin.

Owen JJ Stone (01:59:17):
And

Leo Laporte (01:59:17):
I'd did you hire somebody to crack? I'd say I have 800 bucks. No, my son wants me to send it to some

Jason Snell (01:59:23):
Cause they can crack. A lot of that. Encryption is, is weak and it can be

Leo Laporte (01:59:26):
Cracked it's it's not weak. It's it's the Bitcoin. You

Jason Snell (01:59:29):
Got the good encryption.

Leo Laporte (01:59:29):
I got the, I got the Bitcoin wallet and it's oh, it's the shame. It's strong encryption. See,

Owen JJ Stone (01:59:34):
See, see that feeling you have. That's what he has. He's load it off. That's what you're gonna have about NFTs later about again, it's a scam. I'm not saying not a scam, but I'm saying you could have been in on the scam and

Leo Laporte (01:59:44):
Got, got some money. Yeah, because it's a pyramid scheme. If you get in early. Yeah. This is America. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (01:59:50):
I sell, I sell NFTs. I'll be selling more NFTs. It's a thing to do. Some people like it, you know, sometimes he gives stuff away for free America. It's what we

Jason Snell (01:59:57):
Do. I have a friend who had a their kid made a thing that he posted on TWiTtter. It came like a meme for a long time. And I said, you should get that made as an NFT. He says, yeah, but they're stupid. I said, yes, they are stupid. But if somebody will pay you yeah. For something like that, that has no value. Take the money.

Leo Laporte (02:00:13):
Yeah. But see, I won't even do it cuz I feel like, I mean, we could sell NFTs. Trey said, oh you should sell your bloopers as in FTS. But I'm not. I'd feel guilty doing that. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (02:00:23):
And give 'em away.

Leo Laporte (02:00:25):
Give them them

Owen JJ Stone (02:00:25):
Away. Yeah. Make NFTs and give 'em to your

Leo Laporte (02:00:27):
Well, what's the

Owen JJ Stone (02:00:28):
Point of that? Give 'em to your discord holders. Once again, the same reason you sell bricks when somebody sign their

Leo Laporte (02:00:34):
Name, but now it's different. We build a studio out of that.

Owen JJ Stone (02:00:37):
It's it's different to you, but it's not different. It's symbolism. People who have never come to this building and have actually touch their brick.

Leo Laporte (02:00:44):
They'll own a URL

Owen JJ Stone (02:00:45):
To have their name on here. So if you made NFTs and said, I'm only giving it to my discord members and owners and they can have the value of that to them, it holds value to them. It means something to them. They're part of TWiT and yes, I'm convincing you and Lisa we're going shopping with the black car because we all need except for him because he does not deserve it. Getting on my nose with these things. I Leah, we are gonna do it.

Leo Laporte (02:01:05):
New California bill. It's not a law, but it's proposed. Let parents Sue social media companies for addicting kids. I think this is probably based on the Texas abortion law where like we can't enforce anything. So let people Sue and and that'll do it. This is from Buffy wicks of Oakland. She's co-sponsor of a bill that would obligate social media companies to not addict child users. I don't know how you do that. And, and if, if you, if failing that parents can Sue it's you

Iain Thomson (02:01:39):
Could always put a banner at the top saying your mom and dad really like this site that would do

Leo Laporte (02:01:45):
It, worked for Facebook assembly bill 24 0 8. It's known as the social media platform duty to children act,

Owen JJ Stone (02:01:54):
How do I, how do I acknowledge or evaluate or sustained the fact that my child's addicted, who is going to pay for the suit? And secondly, this reminds me of like the eighties, when they ran over CDs and music, it's AOR video game. It's like, I'm like, wait, what, what are we doing is two live crew. Okay. So your kids listening to it and they're what they're singing songs. They're they're playing sound. What

Leo Laporte (02:02:19):
Are we doing? The presumption is that media, social media companies are attempting to addict people and could do something to prevent it. In fact, there's a safe Harbor provision that would protect responsible social media platforms from being penalized. If they quote took basic steps to avoid addicting children can, that would

Owen JJ Stone (02:02:38):
Be, can I start suing?

Leo Laporte (02:02:39):
That's fun.

Owen JJ Stone (02:02:40):
Can I Sue bad parents? I wish. Can I Sue you for not keeping your kid under control and the CVS he's throwing M and MSMS at the back of my head. Can I Sue

Leo Laporte (02:02:47):
You? Yes, you can. You can Sue people for anything. If you want. This

Owen JJ Stone (02:02:50):
Is America.

Iain Thomson (02:02:51):
Land up the little suit

Owen JJ Stone (02:02:52):
America. This, this, I don't know it does. I pay attention

Leo Laporte (02:02:57):
To your kids. It could pass. It could pass. I mean, you never know any day, any given Sunday, these things could pass. Love

Owen JJ Stone (02:03:04):
Your kids. Pay attention to 'em take the phones away from 'em before they're big enough to beat you up. When you try teach

Leo Laporte (02:03:09):
Your children. Well, let's take a little break. I want to tell everybody how to protect yourself online with the VPN I use the only one I use and recommend express VPN and go going online without express VPN. It's fun. Cuz these ads, every time they have some new metaphor, right? Last time I was going to the bathroom, leaving the door open. Yeah. Now it's like changing your clothes while leaving your window wide open. You might not have anything to hide, but why give strangers a chance to invade your privacy? I do use express VPN. When you go online without express VPN internet service providers could see what you're doing, see what websites you're visiting and it's completely legal for them. In fact, they all do to resell that information to marketing firms and others without your consent. And you don't know data brokers, you, you don't know how that's gonna be used.

Leo Laporte (02:04:03):
So that's one reason to use a good VPN. Another reason of course geographic restrictions that keep you from watching Dr. Who, if you have a Netflix subscription, you know, you can watch Netflix in a variety of countries and they have a completely different set of shows. So if you like anime, go to Japan, big button. You you say, I want to be in Tokyo today. Suddenly you're you're in Tokyo and you can watch Netflix, Japan. That's another good reason. Another good reason is security. If you're in an open access point, now that we're starting to get out and about you better be using a VPN to protect you, but here's the catch. Here's the catch. You gotta trust the VPN because they know what you're doing. That's why you use express VPN. When you push the button and you join the server, the server is spun up in.

Leo Laporte (02:04:49):
They call it the trusted server technology in Ram only sandbox. So it can't write every time the server is rebooted. Everything is erased and the things built from scratch. They do that at least once a week, there is nothing on those servers. We know it because there have been and you can read the news stories. If you Google it, there have been countries where they don't have, you know, warrants. They just burst in, take the server from express VPN. There's nothing on 'em. They can't do do anything with them. You need a good VPN's you need that's somebody that protects your privacy. That's this

Owen JJ Stone (02:05:23):
Is my VPN. So I

Leo Laporte (02:05:24):
Know, you know? Yes it's and here's another tablets

Owen JJ Stone (02:05:27):
It's

Leo Laporte (02:05:27):
Fast. So you don't even, sometimes you use a VPN, you go, oh boy, I can't take this much longer. You can express VPN on your router and the whole family. The whole is protected. I know I have. They'll never say a word cuz they don't even know, but they're safe. That's what's important. Browse anonymously protect yourself from hackers. And of course eliminate geographic restrictions. It couldn't be easier. Express VPNs apps for phones, for laptops. You could put it on your router. You could put it on your smart TV. You put it everywhere. You are express VPN. And why would you take off your clothes with a window wide open? Why would you do that? You wouldn't, you wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it Secure. Your

Owen JJ Stone (02:06:08):
I'm not doing it. You're not doing

Leo Laporte (02:06:09):
Secure your online activity by visiting express vpn.com/TWiT today P R E SS, vpn.com/TWiT Express, vpn.com/TWiT. And you can get an extra three months free with a one year package. Thank you. Express VPN for protecting us online. Before we go much further, we should probably take a look at the week. That was some fun stuff happened this week. A lot of it watch. So you think I should just,

Owen JJ Stone (02:06:39):
I think this there it's the manual. It's tiny. Okay.

Jim (02:06:57):
Previously on TWiTtter, Mac break weekly.

Owen JJ Stone (02:07:00):
So what

Mark Gurman (02:07:01):
Apple's doing is they're basically taunting Intel at this point, Intel held apple back so significantly. And what they've been able to do in just two, three years now is they've been able to rapidly expand the product line, right? They

Leo Laporte (02:07:13):
Now, so now we know how big the M one ultra is. It's as big as the middle finger.

Owen JJ Stone (02:07:17):
It's exactly right. As big as the middle finger, right?

Jim (02:07:21):
Security. Now

Owen JJ Stone (02:07:21):
Russia has decided to start signing their own website certificates. And this is one of those what? Oh boy, possibly go wrong. Western certificate authorities are banned through sanctions to do business

Leo Laporte (02:07:35):
With entities inside Russia. Yeah. It's interesting. What are they gonna do does about this week in Google, Marco Rubio, the Senator from Florida, he fixed the big issues to stay on saving time for one thing in Congress, it's this? Wow. Stop changing the clock. You

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:50):
Know what you could do if you don't wanna change your clocks ever again, y'all just make every clock, a internet connected

Leo Laporte (02:07:56):
Clock. It's not the actual physical act of changing the clock girl. Like

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:01):
I'm just saying, if that's your issue, we can solve that today. Just

Leo Laporte (02:08:05):
Don't want it to be a different time. When I wake queen of IOT has spoken That by the way that bill that was kind of sprung on the Senate and they passed unanimously I don't think it's gonna get through the house cuz it turns out to be very controversial who would've thunk

Jason Snell (02:08:25):
It people. Yeah, they, they don't surprised, but I think it's, I think it's bad. I mean we in California, California, Oregon, and Washington all have to a certain degree, said they want to go to permanent daylight saving. We

Leo Laporte (02:08:36):
Had a referendum.

Jason Snell (02:08:37):
Yeah, because of, because of where we are and would go altogether. We, where we are positioned in the time zone, it actually kind of makes sense for us. But this law is really weird. It basically says everybody has to go to daylight saving all the time states can't choose and you know, we're gonna just do it. And that's weird cuz there are places that probably should not do that. That should choose another times. Why not let the states choose? Cause

Leo Laporte (02:09:02):
It would be insane. Hang on is

Jason Snell (02:09:05):
It's it's already insane. I like, I have family in Indiana. There are two time zones in Indiana. They vary by by county. Yeah. Right? Like it wouldn't be that bad, but like Michigan has a good argument to that. They should never go to daylight saving time only because they're far enough north and they're far enough west in the Eastern time zone. That it's a bad idea. So let them not. But, but this bill nobody has a choice except for Arizona and Hawaii, who can just stay with the way they are

Leo Laporte (02:09:31):
Certain just exempted in the rest.

Jason Snell (02:09:32):
Everybody else is just has to go. That's

Leo Laporte (02:09:34):
What, what about the

Owen JJ Stone (02:09:34):
Conspiracy theory? Me and the electric companies wanna have it dark sooner. So you turn on your lights and they get more money. Minute they're lobbyists that are keeping us down, man. The

Leo Laporte (02:09:45):
Minute lobbyists,

Owen JJ Stone (02:09:46):
Electrical company

Leo Laporte (02:09:46):
Getting up and going to school in the dark at 8:30 AM is the minute that that law goes. You try going to, I mean Scotland. Yeah. The more north you are, the worse it is. Yeah. You will, you will get up and it'll be dark at nine in the morning in the winter. It'll still be dark. It's

Jason Snell (02:10:01):
Black. Yeah. But it will be light in the evening when people are coming home from work. So that that's my it's a trade off morning. People and night people are, are gonna argue about it. It's a trade off in some places. It makes sense. I think in California it does make sense, but it's, it's just weird that this, this past unanimously kind of quickly, like nobody paid attention to this and that the way it's written is so strange where it's like, no, we're just going everybody now.

Leo Laporte (02:10:29):
Well there's still some shenanigans that have to go on including a vote in the house. And the president has decided, I suspect it's not gonna happen.

Jason Snell (02:10:36):
People are freaking out about the technical issue here. Since this is a tech show about like you have to rewrite software in order to change it. But the truth is a lot of the software these days is based on the UTC offsets. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not a big deal. There will be a lot of like early crappy electronics that have it hard coded. But the fact is just a few years ago we changed when the daily saving time ends or

Leo Laporte (02:10:56):
Ends thousand seven.

Jason Snell (02:10:57):
And, and there were a lot of crappy clocks that were made that didn't work anymore.

Owen JJ Stone (02:11:02):
Thes phones, 99 Y2K Jason, we could destroy the actually for some reason we could destroy the

Leo Laporte (02:11:09):
Universe seems to have more trouble with the time changing anybody watch

Owen JJ Stone (02:11:12):
Crash.

Jason Snell (02:11:13):
Oh yeah. All

Leo Laporte (02:11:13):
Sorts of weird things have happened in the past. Absolutely. But normally all this technology exactly. As you say, the software doesn't have times hard coded in it just knows what time zone am I in? Okay. I'll handle it from there. It's

Jason Snell (02:11:26):
Not. And in fact, most we have a setting of like what time zone are you in? You can change it. And if, if you're a device that's on a network time, then you're gonna, you're gonna say, what time is it? And it's gonna know what time zone you're in and it's gonna give you the correct

Leo Laporte (02:11:38):
Time. Exactly. Basically the hardware is in UTC anyway. Regardless. Exactly. Yeah. let's see. So anyway, we'll see what happens. Oh, the web one image coming back from the web, it's still that done completely with its calibration. But look at that picture.

Jason Snell (02:12:00):
So for people who are watching this just to be clear, all those little spots around the star those are galaxies, galaxies, deep, deep galaxies. And this is a very limited exposure just for calibration. This thing is gonna show us stuff to the beginning of the universe. Yeah. That we've never seen before. And even in the calibration image of the one camera, you've got deep field galaxies back behind that star that they're using as their, as their test subjects,

Leo Laporte (02:12:27):
You can kind of tell if you look at the image from NASA closely, they're not little pinpoints. You can see, they look like little spirals.

Jason Snell (02:12:33):
Oh yeah. There's a on TWiTtter. Or I saw an astronomer who was walking through all the little smudgy galaxies and saying like what kind of galaxy this is? And I, we don't have the the Redshift data from this image. So we don't know whether they're like just in the line of sight or whether they're actually like colliding some of them and all of that. And that'll all come later. But this is also a test image. Yeah. That's all it is.

Leo Laporte (02:12:56):
It's false color also because it, these is infrared. You're not right.

Jason Snell (02:12:59):
Because the further back in time you go the further into infrared, you have to go because the Redshift

Owen JJ Stone (02:13:04):
As a, as a not bright person, can I just ask you one question, if I can see that those are galaxies, correct? Those are galaxies. Yeah. How come I can't look at planets and see if there's people walking around on there. We got sound like you see people walking around. I don't care about the eyes. I want you. If you can get that far back up, hit every single planet on the way there. I wanna know who's walking the telescope way

Leo Laporte (02:13:28):
Far away. Let could

Owen JJ Stone (02:13:29):
Look back at us and you could see Jesus. I want it. So I'm asking a

Jason Snell (02:13:32):
Question. I got two things. First is one of the things that's not widely known is a lot of the early space telescopes were spy telescope hardware that were given interesting from the spy agencies to NASA and they just turned 'em around. Yeah. And looked out at the universe. But the other, the other thing, the hub, the Hubble was

Owen JJ Stone (02:13:49):
A telescope

Jason Snell (02:13:50):
Has some spy, telescope heritage. We'll it that way. But web here's the thing about web. You talk about seeing people walk around web is not just gonna look at star as far off in distant galaxies. It's also gonna look at exoplanets. And one of the things they think they might be able to do is even detect atmosphere and get the substances in an atmosphere of a planet, which might tell if there was substances that had to be created by life. So plus they may be able to look at other things in our solar system, other planets here more clearly than Hubble can do. So there's lots of other stuff. They're they're not just looking at faraway.

Owen JJ Stone (02:14:24):
Can, can I tell you something? That's all they ever wanted. That's all they ever need is say, I could care less about all the gala. There you go. I wanna know what's going on. That's great. That's find aliens that

Jason Snell (02:14:36):
Excites me might happen. It could happen. This

Leo Laporte (02:14:38):
Is the first selfie from space. This is the web telescope selfie. Yep. Of itself. There you go.

Iain Thomson (02:14:46):
I saw it being built in Godard and it was, it's just an amazing, what was

Leo Laporte (02:14:49):
All folded up and who, you know, was,

Jason Snell (02:14:52):
It has to fit with the faring of a rocket and then also

Iain Thomson (02:14:54):
Ultimate Noami. 

Leo Laporte (02:14:56):
It's truly amazing.

Owen JJ Stone (02:14:56):
We're living in

Jason Snell (02:14:57):
The future. It's amazing technology. They've been building it for a very long time, every years. So relieved that it finally got out there, but it is gonna, it G I guarantee you, as long as it continues to function like it has so far, I guarantee you fund mental things that we think about our universe will change because of what it finds amazing.

Leo Laporte (02:15:16):
What do you think? Like how old it is, whether it's expanding? Well,

Jason Snell (02:15:19):
The most exciting thing is the stuff we don't know. Like we're gonna see stuff and be like, what? And that astronomers love that because that's the thing that makes them think, oh, now we gotta figure out why we're seeing this. And then they learn things about the universe.

Owen JJ Stone (02:15:31):
Be great. And you could tell me that there's no life. That's cool if you found that out, but using it in those ways that you laid out, those are practical things that I want and interest me,

Jason Snell (02:15:40):
There's real hope of, like, we know there's an exo plan. It was like, okay, but is it a rock? Does it have an atmosphere? And we don't know. And they think they're gonna be able to use web to do spectrographs of the atmosphere of exoplanets and say, wow, this has got an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere like earth, or this is more like a Jupiter. And they hope to be able to do that with this

Owen JJ Stone (02:15:59):
I'm all in on, in that you're pretty sweet. All in. You got me, Hey, you offered me some crack cocaine. And I took it's

Jason Snell (02:16:05):
UN world yet.

Leo Laporte (02:16:06):
The optical telescope element manager at NASA's Godard flight space center said, we said, last fall, we would know that the telescope is worth properly. When we have an image of a star that looks like a star. Now we're seeing that image and I'm happy to say the optical performance of the telescope is absolutely phenomenal. It is working extremely well. The performance is as good, if not better than our most optimistic prediction.

Jason Snell (02:16:30):
Yeah. Yeah. It's summer before we'll get like official science images because they have a bunch of, this is one camera. And so they align the mirror, but now they also have to align. And, and, and it's so precise because these are so delicate. And it's behind their sun shield out in you fairly deep space. It's at the, you know, on range point. Absolutely. But once they fine tune all the instruments starting the summer, the science starts to roll. It's

Iain Thomson (02:16:55):
Just, it's the, the, the simple pro I mean, you think it's, it's tough, you know, upgrading a laptop or something like that. They built this thing, put it in a vibration chamber and shook, it, shook it violent to simulator launch then took it down, rebuilt everything, which, which failed then did the same thing after chilling it for three weeks in with using liquid nitrogen and then did the whole thing again, it's a marvelous

Jason Snell (02:17:18):
And then shot it into space. Yeah. And nobody can, it can't be fixed. It's too far away. So if anything fails, the whole billions of dollars is down the drain and it all worked.

Leo Laporte (02:17:30):
This is a graph from the recording industry association of America. You might need the web telescope to see the very last bar, which is CD sales in the year 20, 20, 21. But you may notice something. It

Jason Snell (02:17:43):
Went up, it went up,

Leo Laporte (02:17:44):
Went up by a lot. I mean, look, CD sales are still a fraction of the CD sales 20 years ago. But for the first time, in a long time, shipments of CDs, rose from 31 million in 2020 to 46 million in 2020 ones, no,

Jason Snell (02:18:01):
Are hipsters gonna be listening to CDs? Like

Leo Laporte (02:18:04):
Exactly.

Owen JJ Stone (02:18:05):
I was gonna tell you, it literally is hipsters CD buyers. It is the same thing. As records records are

Leo Laporte (02:18:10):
Vinyl sales have been steadily increasing for a decade and a half. Yeah.

Owen JJ Stone (02:18:14):
Yeah. And, but they're, they're taking up too much space. They, they realize they can just stack up C listen to this and have the same

Jason Snell (02:18:19):
CD boxes.

Leo Laporte (02:18:20):
46 million CDs were sold last year. 39 million vinyl records were sold last year. Almost as many.

Iain Thomson (02:18:28):
Some of that is cause I've got a, a family member who works to work to a road. He's he's

Leo Laporte (02:18:34):
Really,

Iain Thomson (02:18:35):
But he was saying that a lot of the vinyl stuff that they're selling now is people buying albums to put on, you know, to get framed up and put on the wall. Rather

Leo Laporte (02:18:46):
Actually you're not listening to 'em. Yeah. It's,

Jason Snell (02:18:48):
There's some truth, but any, like I'm on some mailing list for some, my favorite musical artist and they all do a vinyl release and it's limited editions. And it goes for the fan club and it cost of fortune. And like, you can't like you, you're a touring musician, you got a mailing list. You do your tour, you sell vinyl. These are all, you gotta do it all. And, and apparently the vinyl's really cool now, like, like 21st century vinyl could be like weird color and weird patterns and stuff that are like,

Leo Laporte (02:19:14):
Do you buy I'm Fri McGee vinyl records. Yeah, you do. Yeah. And I bet they're all like Spacey, you know? Yeah.

Jason Snell (02:19:20):
And they're collectable because they don't mass produce them. So people have to get them. They're like NFTs that can

Owen JJ Stone (02:19:25):
Play music, hold it's

Leo Laporte (02:19:26):
An ANP. You can hold it and play. And,

Owen JJ Stone (02:19:28):
And so I, and so cuz it interests me just to think who was the top seller? So Adele Taylor, swift Taylor swift again Taylor swift again. Yeah. Billy Eilish top selling people

Leo Laporte (02:19:38):
With strong fan bases. Yes.

Owen JJ Stone (02:19:40):
Yes. They want to, you know what they

Leo Laporte (02:19:42):
Want to, when you're

Owen JJ Stone (02:19:42):
At a concert again, Mr. You don't believe INTS music is gonna NT. Cause you can't hold it anymore. It's digital, but it's there. But guess what? When I go to the concert and I see Billy O and I wanted to sign something, I can't have her sign, my phone that stream

Leo Laporte (02:19:56):
Her

Owen JJ Stone (02:19:56):
Music. Let me hold.

Leo Laporte (02:19:58):
Used to sign people, sign it. I used to sign autographs a couple of year and nobody asked for autographs anymore. They just want selfie. That's all anybody wants, nobody wants an autograph

Owen JJ Stone (02:20:07):
Cuz I could hold it. And it's it's selfie.

Iain Thomson (02:20:08):
I dunno. Selfie last bloody bra concert I went to, did you get

Owen JJ Stone (02:20:11):
An

Iain Thomson (02:20:11):
Autograph? Yeah, I got my CD autograph. You said you cannot sign a digital copy. That that's true. That's true. So yeah's I got my t-shirt signed and I got my CD signed and I was a very happy camper. Just

Owen JJ Stone (02:20:23):
Wait, just waiting on you, Leo. Just waiting on you. Leo still wait,

Leo Laporte (02:20:26):
Waiting along time, but you know, what's not gonna wait our dinner reservation. Let's get the hell outta here.

John (02:20:31):
Well, let's look at some latest Elph Fri McGee album. First,

Leo Laporte (02:20:33):
First, here's the umph free McGee

John (02:20:35):
Album asking for a friend two Lux edition. How

Leo Laporte (02:20:38):
Much is that? 50

John (02:20:39):
Bucks. A hundred bucks. If you want all three of those times pictures come with it. How pretty it is. It's

Jason Snell (02:20:47):
In a world where all stuff is digital downloads. Not only does it make sense for the artist, it totally makes sense. If you want like a, a thing to show your love of the artist, you get this

Leo Laporte (02:20:55):
Object. It's like a t-shirt. Yeah.

Jason Snell (02:20:56):
Yeah. And, and that's that's great.

Leo Laporte (02:20:58):
John, do you have a turntable? I do not. No, he doesn't have a turn table. He has all the vinyl,

Jason Snell (02:21:03):
You know? There's that, that song.

Leo Laporte (02:21:05):
No, wait, have

Jason Snell (02:21:05):
You heard that song? It's like, I've got a record player that was made in 2015 and I'm like, that's so weird. Like, like 21st. I hope it's like, is it like a USB record player? What is it? I don't even know, but, but that's hipsters love it. It's warmer. It sounds warmer.

Leo Laporte (02:21:23):
Jason Snell, six

Jason Snell (02:21:24):
Colors.Com.Com.

Leo Laporte (02:21:26):
We love

Jason Snell (02:21:27):
That's spent a lot of money for that domain. Did you? I did. No, really? I did. It was like four or five grand when I was starting the site and I was like, oh, I gotta get it. I gotta get it. If

Leo Laporte (02:21:35):
You are an apple fan, Jason and Dan are the Kings of this and boy, lots of great articles. We'll help you out. Lots of information. It really is a great site. You've done a great job. And of course, how many podcasts do you do

Jason Snell (02:21:48):
Now? A lot. A lot, but upgrade on real relay. FM is the big one downstream. If you're interested in my thoughts about the streaming world, right? Absolutely comparable. Yeah, absolutely

Leo Laporte (02:21:59):
Very busy man. But I'm so glad to see you. It's great.

Jason Snell (02:22:02):
It's great to have great to see you anytime. Really. It's an easy drive for me, but I'm usually it's you and me and, and a bunch of people

Leo Laporte (02:22:08):
Avatars. Yeah, yeah. Not today. We had Ian Thompson from the register dot

Iain Thomson (02:22:13):
Tom. I indeed to see you. Good to see you as well. It's been

Leo Laporte (02:22:16):
A while. It used to be more fun to come here because we had an English food store, but that's gone.

Iain Thomson (02:22:21):
Yeah. That has got, that has gone. In fact, a lot of the English food stores have gone

Leo Laporte (02:22:24):
To the wall. People realize it's crap. I think I would beg to differ with that. I know you've never got on with Marmite, but I really think you should give it a shot. Nobody wants it. No, it's suited the gods. I'll have a scotch egg tonight. That's what we'll ah, yes. Yeah. Thank you for being here. Really appreciate it. Who was a pleasure and O and JJ stone came the way out from his undisclosed location somewhere back east. It is so nice to have you didn't bring Leah this

Owen JJ Stone (02:22:50):
Time. I did not. She's very upset with me and she misses you guys. So next time, I guess I have to bring her. We had a good time with her last time. I will say it's my fault that this Absolut episode happened and I'm glad it is my fault. If you're out there in the world, just know two things. One, the chat room here is like the best chat room in America. And the discord is talk about NFTs. You can hold the gifts that are going on. Currently live during shows. They know how to have fun. It is rocking.

Leo Laporte (02:23:12):
I sold a post. There we go.

Owen JJ Stone (02:23:15):
Post sold NFT that you can hold during the show live is really a great community. And if you're in that community and if you wanna be in that community, also make sure you reach out to Lisa and to Leah and to anyone that will listen and tell this man to start selling or giving away NFTs to clubhouse holders. I want it to happen. I wanted to be a thing. I wanna be a champion and a king in the future. And 10 years down the line, you could look back and thank me for the $4 that you made from that NFT that you got for free for being a club member. I appreciate you. I love you. It's been a great time. Text me, send me a message. I don't spam you. And I'm back to doing shows too. If you like podcast with a crazy person that Ranse about things. And I do a show with my kid too. I love you. And another TWiT, this is in the candy.

Leo Laporte (02:23:55):
Yeah.