This Week in Tech 567

Leo Laporte: It's time for TWiT, This Week in Tech! What a week! We had E3, we had WWDC, we had the surprise release of the 1+3. We'll talk about it all. Georgia Dow is here, Ohdoctah, Owen JJ Stone, Devindra Hardawar from Engadget. Stay tuned, a great TWiT is next. 

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Leo:This is TWiT, This Week in Tech, episode 567, recorded Sunday, June 19, 2016.

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It's time for TWiT, This Week in Tech, the show where we cover the latest tech news and we've got the greatest tech panelists assembled. It is always fun to have Devindra Hardawar here. He is a senior editor at Engadget. Good to see you, Devindra. 

Devindra Hardawar: Good to see you, Leo. Happy father's day. 

Leo: Thank you. You're not a father, I don't think. 

Devindra: No. Soon, maybe.

Leo: Soon? Anything you want to share with?

Devindra: No exclusive announcements. It's just getting around that time.

Leo: It is. You're that age. You have a young lady in mind?

Devindra: I do. Yeah, I'm married. 

Leo: Good. You have selected a partner. You know what happens next? You know that process.

Devindra: I've heard stories. 

Leo: They tell stories. Also with us, great to have Georgia Dow once again from in Montreal. Wonderful to see you. I hear you spent time with your dad today. 

Georgia Dow: I did. It was wonderful. 

Leo: That's wonderful. And a father himself, Ohdoctah, Owen JJ Stone. 

Owen JJ Stone: AKA, the best Dad in the land. So says my Superman cup that is not focused. See that? It says Dad on it. It says "Happy Father's Day" on it. It's got purple because she likes purple and I don't. Then she signed on the bottom. 

Leo: Who is your daughter? It says right here on the bottom.

Owen: Yeah. This is the last year though. This is the last year I'm accepting these crappy hand made, "I made you a picture frame" with no picture in it, because I figured you'd select your own pictures. Next year, she better come with some good stuff.

Leo: I think making you something is the highest... 

Owen: Let's get this clear. Mother's day we got reservations, parking lots are full, everything is sold out. Father's day I'm sitting on TV with you. This is what happens on Father's Day. You got to work and do stuff. Mother's Day they get feet rubs, they get books with IOU's in it. I get, it's got Superman on it, so I know she loves me, but it's a mug. She gave me some pink Himalaya salt because we were over at another friend's house. 

Leo: That's nice.

Owen: So for like 30 minutes I kept saying "Himalaya playa" so she got... this is the last year I'm accepting gifts like this. I know she's up there and she hears me. She better come. 

Leo: Leah, you need to come up with something. Help her out. What do you want?

Owen: I want what women get! I want reservations. I want to be wined and dined. 

Leo: Dude, you never get what women get. 

Georgia: Unfortunately that's not what happens. Dads get short changed. 

Owen: I want a revolution of Fathers. 

Leo: I got a tie for Father's Day. It's a bow tie. It's a clip on. I got a text and my daughter called me many times. So that was... yeah. I think the girls do make up for the sons often. Abby is in Mexico so we couldn't spend father's day together. She's studying whatever that language is in Mexico. I think she needs to work harder on it, because she said "Happy dia de las papas." Which, if I'm not wrong, means the "day of the potatoes." So it's good she's studying. 

Owen: She's almost there. 

Georgia: She has her vegetables down. 

Leo: It was a big week. We got a lot to talk about. Where do you want to start? Should we start with WWDC? Then we'll go to E3. There's a new phone from OnePlus. There's a victory in the net neutrality case. There's a lot to talk about. Let's start with WWDC. You did not get to go with the rest of the iMore crew, Georgia. 

Georgia: I was the only one that was left behind. I don't mean to feel abandoned or anything, but everyone else was there except for me. I'm a little heartbroken. It's OK. He has no passive aggression towards me, it's just...

Leo: At least they got invitations. I didn't even get an invitation. You and I will sit back and look from afar. It was, this by the way, we should mention this. We spend weeks before any Apple event talking about the rumors, and in this case there's a lot of rumored hardware. There's a rumored new MacBook Pro, there were rumors about what else? I don't remember. There were some other rumors. None of which came true. There were rumors they were going to completely re-write iTunes. Instead, it was all software, it was about what really developer's conference should be about. Updates to iOS, Mac OS. By the way, it's called Mac OS now. Not OS X. Watch OS, and TV OS. Are you pretty excited? First of al, let me see here who uses a Mac. Owen, do you use a Mac?

Owen: Yes sir.

Leo: Devindra?

Devindra: Yeah, I use it for work and I have a Windows PC at home, so I try to keep both going. 

Leo: I use both. I'm using Linux right now. I'll tell you why. A couple of reasons. One obviously, I was getting tired of Microsoft foisting Windows 10 on everybody and everything. I like Windows 10, but I felt like that was really rude. How rude! Then, I was looking at Apple and thinking 'You don't care about desktop. You don't care about OSX anymore. You're all about the iPhone.' I was starting to get a little worried thinking I may need to find a new kind of home. 

Devindra: So you went to the worse home. But OK.

Leo: No. I beg to differ. For one thing, I think open source is the future. Do you not agree?

Devindra: It's funny, Leo. In high school I was watching you on the Screensavers and all the shows experimenting with Linux and it's really funny. I feel like we've been saying open source is the future for a while. It's very important for desktop platforms. I know. We see the value of having something stable with a lot of developer support, so both from Apple and Windows. 

Leo: That was the joke for years. This year is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop. No, this year. The truth is, in the intervening years, Linux has won in many respects. Android is Linux. OS X is based on BSD. It's Darwin, it's open source under the hood, the graphical layer on top is all proprietary Apple stuff. Any time you surf, half the sites if not more are running Linux. But here's what... I do think open source is the only sensible way forward. This comes back to the crypto conversation that people have. How can you trust cryptography if you don't... if it's just some blob? You know that the companies that make that blob are under intense pressure from Governmental agencies to make the blog accessible to them. If you really want to use cryptography, if you really want to be private and secure, you can't trust a company. Not that the companies are untrustworthy, but Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, have no legal standing to say no frankly, or it's very hard for them to say no. If asked in the appropriate way. That's why the Apple Store was interesting because they did say No. But they would have lost. Very important to understand, the San Bernardino phone case, they would have lost in the long run, had the FBI not dropped it because they have no legal standing to say no. They have to agree! They have to go with the law. So if you want privacy and security, you can't trust an individual company and you have to trust open source where you can or others can validate the source. I always say they use open source crypto, and I think in many ways, open source software is going to be the wave of the future, partly because desktop operating systems don't matter as much anymore. The Cloud doesn't care whether you're using Linux or OSX and it doesn't matter what you're using. 

Owen: When you say that, it sounds correct and it is correct, but remember the rest of the world thinks of Open Source as, like you said, all the operating sources are built on top of it. They're all wearing dresses and make up and they're all the pretty picture.

Leo: Lipstick is on the pig. 

Owen: If I said Linux to the average person in America, they would hand me Windex. They wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

Leo: I agree. But nobody needs to know. That's exactly right. 

Owen: As far as the way of the future, it's the way of the now and what we know because we're knowledgable about the information. I'm with you, but just relax. 

Leo: That's what everybody says. When people start talking about Linux, that's the Universal reaction. I'm with you but relax. Chill. 

Owen: You been on this since the 80's, and we understand, but calm down. 

Devindra: It's a great solution for some people, but I'm more concerned with what looks like accessible to normal consumers, so what they can buy in stores. Yeah. It's rough.

Leo: Increasingly, I'm telling people to get Chromebooks. Notice that that's Linux, but Google doesn't say Linux, because they don't want to scare people. It's Chrome, you like Chrome you know Chrome. It's Chrome OS. 

Devindra: Then you're under Google's own platform too and you're getting Google's web and their stuff pushed to you that's not the full-fledged computer that can do all sorts of other things offline apps and stuff like that. 

Leo: I agree. I talk to normal people on the radio all the time and that's my day job. 

Devindra: Is that your only contact with normal people?

Leo: That is my only contact. And I often wish I didn't have to do that, but I do. I'm not going to... I do say to them. I try to educate them. But a lot of times people call me... an 80 year old woman called me today and says I want to scan everything. Obviously that's the wrong answer for something. What I first tried to do was talk her out of scanning everything. She said, "No. I want to scan all my receipts. I want to scan all my documents. I want to scan everything." I said that's kind of old school. Your bank statements are going to come digitally. You don't have to have paper. That was last decade people were scanning everything. 

Owen: But she's out there spending that cash, Uncle Leo.

Leo: That's not my job! My job is not to spend her cash. 

Owen: No. She's spending her cash, meaning she's got a lot of receipts. She's not using her car for everything. She's out here writing checks and using that cash. She's old school, so she needs to scan her receipts. 

Leo: But the bank will send you pictures of your checks, you know. 

Georgia: Didn't you just tell her to take a photo with her phone? 

Leo: I did. That's exactly right. 

Georgia: Take a photo, throw them out. 

Leo: Did you hear me, or do you know that's what I would have said?

Georgia: I'm just assuming. That's the smartest way for someone to be able to get rid of paper, but the IRS comes knocking, they're not going to care about the paper, they still want to have the receipt. So you're going to still be in trouble. If you really want to keep those for seven years, can't the IRS come at you for...

Leo: She could put them in a box. But she wanted some way of storing them digitally. Take a picture with your phone and get Google photos to have it stored...Evernote is great.

Owen: You can search your receipts also.

Leo: I didn't think Evernote, and you're right.

Devindra: It is my favorite expenses tool because expenses are the worst. That's the way you collect them. 

Leo: Do you worry that EverNote is a rocky foundation? 

Devindra: Yeah. For sure. I mean who was it? Phil Libin stepping down.

Leo: He left?

Devindra: Yep. Tons of reports about their trouble. They just haven't made much progress over the last few years. My entire workflow is based around EverNote, so I'd be very sad if they fell apart, but I look at their Mac App and their Windows apps, and nothing has really improved. Their web app is really nice now. But yeah. They haven't brought that forward into their platforms yet. 

Leo: Microsoft sees the writing on the wall. I remember a few weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago, they offered an Evernote to a one note converter. So they know people are looking for alternatives. 

Owen: I was going to say that this conversation shows just how horribly boring and nobody cares about WWDC because we started this conversation about that and normally we get Apple fanboys, and we totally went off to another world with Androids and Linuxes. 

Leo: I started by asking you how many of you use Macs and I confessed to using a Linux desktop today and then of course, you're right. We completely forgot. Back to WWDC.

Georgia: I liked WWDC. I thought Ike had a lot of stuff that I wanted. I got the bells, the whistles, it was all pretty and fun. It's going to work better. It wasn't anything super exciting, it's not like getting a new Mac or getting a new phone unveiled, but besides that this is what I want to use for messages for. I want the trinkets. I'm the one who uses Bitmoji and annoys people with pictures. I want to send everything in confetti. 

Leo: I kind of pointed that out. I don't know why they spent so much time on messages, but that's been a great Apple tradition of picking an app like their cards app and sending...

Devindra: They're a SnapChat competitor, that's why. 

Leo: That's right. They're worried that the kids... but this is not going to change any kid's mind. They're going to still use SnapChat. This is for Moms! (And dads.)

Owen: I love Georgia so much, and normally we are on the same brainwave, but apparently this is wrong. This is the biggest snooze fest. This is the one time I watched one of their presentations and I fully got annoyed with, Oh My God. They're talking to me like I'm a five year old child. They repeat themselves three times. Here. Let me tell you all the features of messaging. No. Here's someone to show you everything I just showed you on the screen. 

Leo: They filled two hours. 

Owen: What are you? Can we get to the next thing? It was horrible. 

Leo: We're going to get you engaged. 

Georgia: We should have been watching this together, because you would have been like, "This is horrible," and I was like "Oh my god! Bubbles! Oh yes, I can't wait for this. I can use handwriting on my watch!" I got almost everything that I was hoping for in bells and whistles, except for having my Watchface always be on, which is ridiculous. 

Leo: I don't think the battery life will allow it. 

Owen: You are not going to handwrite on your watch!

Leo: It's not for us, it's for Chinese people. Seriously. They know that we're not going to A, B, but if you're writing Chinese idiograms, that's much easier. By the way, one character is a word. It's efficient and it's a way to handle that problem. I think that's for the Chinese market. 

Georgia: That's also the people in meetings. Sometimes the fast, quick replies are not the right ones. I need to say "Don't you dare." I need to be able to say that on my watch right now. My husband buys another VR system or something. 

Leo: N, O! Last time we talked, which one, the Oculus was coming?

Georgia: I was getting the HDC Vive. 

Leo: The Vive, and you gave up your office and your studio for the Vive room. How is the Vive room doing?

Georgia: Owen, I'm sorry. I know you're going to be like.. this is going to be another one. It's going to be an interesting TWiT. I'm totally sold. It was well worth it. I have people who have never played video games try this out and blow their minds away. I have my six year old cousin who has never played a video game in their life say, "How much is it? What kind of room do I need to get?" They're shooting things. Using a bow and arrow. I was just playing paintball the other day. Battle Dome is one of the best games ever. It's what I'm doing all night, every night, because I love Paintball. This is great. You're shooting things, painting the area. It's like Halo and Platoon stuck together in a game. It's a blast. It was well worth it. I'm there, sign me up.

Leo: This is the space Pirate game. This is one of the games we play a lot. It's really fun. You're just standing on a deck and you're just shooting at incoming. You have a little shield which you hold behind you. You get it from behind you. It turns out two guns is better than one. It's pretty cool. 

Georgia: It's amazing. It's a great game. It's like Galga in 3D. 

Leo: I actually thought it was kind of like Duck Hunt. It turns out that the game mechanics aren't as important as the environment, which is cool.

Georgia: Even the graphics for Battle Dome is made by one developer. It's so much fun. It's probably one of the most popular games right now. It's just an absolute blast to play when we get Oculus, which I think it's already there. We just have to get it all set up. We were thinking how can we play together so we can play a game of Paintball on the same screen and someone is the painter and someone else is the shooter. It's a lot of fun. 

Owen: You got to buy that warehouse that everyone can afford when they all buy their VRs because everybody has money to move their room and make a whole new room! 

Leo: The Vive, unlike the Rift, you have to take a large space, like a ten by ten space. 

Owen: I understand it's coming. First of all, it's like when you date someone for the first time. You think everything is great, talk to me after six months because I game all the time and things wear out. Second of all,

Georgia: If you game all the time and you haven't tried this yet? What I want is the next time you come on the show is to at least try it. Try Vive. Don't try Oculus. It doesn't have the controllers. 

Leo: The games are better in the Oculus I thought, but you're right. The Vive is a better experience. You know what we're getting for Owen? The PS VR, the Playstation. I have all three. 

Georgia: It's good. It's not as good. The frames per second are kind of doubled up, right?

Owen: I'm not dedicating a computer for a game that has five games on it, first of all. Second of all, weren't we supposed to be talking about WWDC, which is so horrible...

Leo: All right. We're going to take a break and re-group. Everybody stop thinking about fun stuff. Start thinking about WWDC. Wait a minute. You can now call for help on your watch. 

Georgia: That's life changing. That's going to change everyone's lives. 

Leo: If you're in a wheel chair, Apple finally realized how insulting it was to tell you to stand up every hour. I didn't even think about it at the time, but then they mentioned it and it's like, "Wow. I wish I could." Thanks Apple. Pfft. A lot of the most interesting stuff was stuff under the hood for developers. There's a new file system. Siri is now programmable. App developers finally have access to the hooks. There's stuff that actually might make a difference, but we'll also talk about invisible text and three times bigger emojis. But first, a word about sleep. You're the sleep expert, Georgia, I know. Georgia has done videos on better sleep. Better anxiety-videos. One way to sleep better, a better mattress. That's Casper. Casper mattresses. They are made in the US of A and shipped direct to you from the factory, which eliminates a big markup for the mattress store. The mattress store is a broken idea. I know what you're thinking. I'm not going to buy a mattress until I can lie on it, but really, do you want to lie on it in the mattress store in broad daylight with a sales girl looking at you? You got your shoes on, you can't curl up, you can't roll over, you can't drool? You need to have the mattress in your home and Casper lets you do that for a hundred nights. Casper is amazing. They've re-invented the mattress business. Two kinds of technologies to get you exactly what you want in a mattress. Which is support that sinks that gives you the right bounce and sink. It's springy latex foam and supported memory foam. Casper mattress is a 2016 business intelligence group innovation award winner because they've just taken this business that was stuck in the 50's and they've re-invented it. Now, when your Casper mattress comes in a surprisingly compact box, you open it up. By the way, it smells great the minute you open it up. It breathes. Sometimes I think people worry. Memory foam, it's got to smell latex-y. It smells fresh. It's great for the hot weather that's coming our way this summer. It breathes, you will never sleep hot and we know that's another thing. People need to sleep cool. You can buy it online and there's no risk because if at any time in those first hundred nights you don't like it, you call them, they'll come and get it, they donate it to a charity. They don't actually ship it back to the factory, and they refund you every penny. So there's no risk, no fuss, no muss. The price is amazing. It starts at 500 dollars for a twin. 

Georgia: They also have pillows, which are great as well. 

Leo: So comfy!

Owen: I have the pillow, I don't have the bed. I have two of them.

Leo: We are going to give you 50 dollars off the mattress, we are not going to give you fifty dollars off the pillow. But if you want to buy a mattress, get the fifty bucks off, and then buy some pillows. I'm all in on the pillows. They're really comfy. You all have Casper mattresses as pillows. 

Devindra: I have the Casper pillow in another memory foam, or another Casper mattress and a memory foam pillow.

Leo: They're not quite memory foam... I don't know.

Devindra: They're foam.

Georgia: Renee's getting the pillows, I'm going to squeeze the pillows and see, but at CES, Casper let us jump on their mattress to test it out for one of our videos. They're really cool and really comfortable. 

Leo: They're great. They're really nice mattresses, and you can get it right now and get fifty dollars off your mattress purchase, not your pillow purchase, if you go to You have to use the promo code TWiT. Some terms and conditions apply. But the shipping is free and the returns are free in the US and Canada. It is a great mattress and a really good price because you don't have a show. I think they have a show too like in New York and stuff. 

Devindra: I've been to their New York office. It's a room. It's not really a show room, but you can go there and try to..

Georgia: Was it all padded with Casper mattresses? 

Leo: That's what you need for your Vive room. You need Casper mattresses on the walls. 

Georgia: Do you know what we have? I have matts on the floor because some days you have to crawl or you might fall over. But it would be nice to have some Casper mattress on the sides of the walls because my wall is all dented from being a little over exuberant. 

Leo: You need a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu game for Vive. 

Georgia: I tried a boxing game. It was quite good. It's first gen, but it was pretty exciting, and I'm like finally my martial arts training is coming in handy.

Leo: How tall are you, Georgia?

Georgia: I'm really short. I'm halfling size. Five foot three. 

Leo: That's not that short. My Mom is 4'11". She says she's a legal dwarf. That's my Mom.

Georgia: My Mom is also 4'11". 

Leo: My daughter is 5'2", 5'3". I come from little people. I'm just wondering. This thing that's kind of amazing is you're this powerhouse. What's your belt. I know you've won championships. 

Georgia: I'm a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. The last championship I did. I haven't done a tournament since I busted my knee and went in for knee surgery, but I was Canadian champion of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Leo: I think of this little powerhouse that you don't want to mess with because she could kick your... butt. Anyway. WWDC. Let's get back to that. I'm going to do this in an orderly fashion now. The next Mac OS will not be OS X, it will be Mac OS, Sierra. There's a developer edition coming out, the Beta you can get now. Then there's a public beta that is next month for all of this. Developer bits were available day of, and a public Beta if you're adventurous next month and then the fall, like September probably. It is not going to have the new file system you can try it, but they don't recommend you do it because it's very early days. There's a new file system, AP FS, which will be rolling out to all devices, not just Macs, but even the TVs, the watches, everything in the Spring. I was very excited, in fact, we got Aaron Hilligas on the New Screensavers yesterday. He is a developer, and I wanted to know about AP FS, the new File system, because it's very ZFS. A lot of people say... here's the point. Apple's HFS file system is 30 years old. It is antiquated by any standard. It is not a modern file system. ZFS, which is a much more modern file system is used with Solaris. Apple was considering incorporating ZFS. It's owned by Oracle now. Was considering it a few years ago, and that whole thing fell off the face of the earth. I think now we know why. They were developing their own... it has Snapshots. It's one of the chief benefits of ZFS is you can roll back. Anything goes wrong, you can roll back. You lose a file. You can roll back. It's a really effective and robust file system. It's faster, it handles large drives better. It handles SSDs better. It's not the kind of thing... they didn't even mention it onstage. It's not the kind of thing you can get people all excited about. Not like fairy dust messages. In fact, it makes a huge difference. Ohdoctah, are you excited now?

Owen: I'm excited about that and only one other thing that happened. 

Leo: What?

Owen: The Swift for iPad.

Leo: Isn't that exciting?

Owen: It's super exciting for two reasons. You remember last Christmas I got Leah the Little Bits. 

Georgia: Bits Box?

Leo: Little Bits. Bits Box is cool too. Do you do Bits Box with your kid?

Georgia: My kids do Bits Box.

Leo: Little Bits was those magnetic circuits that you put together.

Owen: She loved those things and she made all kinds of cool stuff for her friend, and she's deep into it. She knows she has to be an engineer when she grows up. This summer we were going to be doing coding because she has to learn how to code. I'm like, "Oh man. This is going to make it so I don't have to have her kill me in my sleep," because it'll make it a little bit more fun, because the way I was going to do it was not super easily fun. 

Leo: Do you code, Owen?

Georgia: Owen, that's why you got the cup. Just saying. You have to make it more fun if you want to get better gifts. 

Leo: Owen, next summer, app camp for girls. Mostly West coast though. Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Vancouver, Orange County / 

Owen: They do stuff in New York too.

Leo: This is a really cool project for girls your daughter's age to get them coding, and to show them it's more than just coding, because it's design and art. There's a lot of different disciplines required in software and app development. 

Georgia: They make it fun.

Leo: Yeah. Jean McDonald does a great job with this. 

Owen: I'm just going to give her a base and let somebody else have fun with it. 

Leo: Are you a coder?

Owen: I used to code and then I started paying other people to do it for me. So... now I'm trying to get back into it for her. It's a horrible, terrible thing. When you watch it on WWDC, legit when the people in the crowd were crying and tearing up, I was like I can't even be mad at them. Normally the Apple seal fest, the "or or or" at everything they say annoys me, but when they watched a little video of people learning to code and I can code now. Everybody in that room knows how frustrating it is to code, so to see somebody happy to learn to achieve, it is an emotional moment, because it is a frustrating thing to learn and to do.

Leo: Swift playground's isn't designed for you to write your next big app in. But it is designed to teach you programming. It will be free on the app store with an iOS X. What they've done is interesting. It's not that drag module thing that so many others have done. Going back to Scratch and Alice. You're actually typing code, but it's beautiful puzzles and stuff and I guess you'll learn all of the basics of Swift. 

Owen: That's a great starting point. It opens the door to people who have never thought about doing it. It's free, so if you ever thought about wanting to do it, you can jump into it, which is awesome. I think that's a great thing that they did.

Leo: I'll definitely be playing with it.

Georgia: My kids use Bits Box, which you have to code in to learn how to play basic Java. But I think we're going to take a breather and try out Swift Playground just to see how it goes. It's going to be fun, they have characters they're going to be moving around, so we're going to be testing it out as well.

Leo: The key in all of this is this looks like something that might be in a school curriculum, but really the idea is for a kid to stumble on it and make it their thing, rather than something that they have to do that's part of a curriculum. Much more fun. At least that's how I discovered technology and probably all of you. It wasn't that somebody said you have to learn this, but you stumble on it and it becomes fun and this is your thing. I'm good at this. This is a great opportunity. Put it on the iPad and see if they find it. 

Owen: Again, the Little Bits got Leah interested enough where I sent her to one of my friends who was an engineer who is retired, but he broke out the soldering board and was putting circuits together and she actually cared. So going from clicking things together and having tools and watching smoke puff up, she was totally into it last summer. I'm just going to progressively mind shift her along to the greatest beast of all times. 

Leo: Apple is in an interesting position. Google at Google IO announced that we're doubling down on machine learning. We're going to put machine learning in everything. Your phone, which already knows a lot about you and Google, which already knows a lot about you is going to be able to predict where you're going, what you're doing, and offer you help, and you're going to be able to ask questions of it. Apple has of course resisted this, trying to position itself as a stewart of its user's privacy and security. Which makes it a little harder for them to do all of the cool things that Google and Facebook are doing because they're willing to spy on you. Apple is responded. They did talk about machine learning. They said yes we're going to be doing it, but there are two things Apple is going to do that they say is, again this is marketing. So this is what they say is different. One is a lot of this will be done on the phone. So Apple debuted new features in photos, giving them parody with Google's photos, things like recognizing faces and recognizing subject matter and letting you search your photos for pictures of Paris in the Springtime or whatever. But they said we're going to do that on device, so we're not going to do the code in our cloud, we're not going to load your messages in the Cloud. We're going to do it on device, and the second thing they announced is this differential privacy, which is a really interesting idea coming out of a University research. Wired's article is quite good from Andy Greenburg describing this. Our friend, cryptographer, Matthew Greene, who really is the king of all this wrote a blog post too about differential privacy, and he pointed out that it's one thing to, first of all it's great to see University research applied in this way that many people will be able to benefit from it, but he said differential privacy is very dependent upon implementation. There's really not, until Apple says exactly what it's doing, and shows us the code, we can't say whether they're doing it right or well, or even if it protects your privacy. In theory it could. I'm liking... I want to ask you guys. We'll start with you, Devindra. I'm liking the idea that Apple says we have a way forward Machine learning that still protects your privacy.

Devindra: Yeah, it's a good way for Apple to differentiate itself from Google and Facebook and every company that we're worried that we're giving too much information. It seems like such an Apple solution too. The way that the iPhone was not the first Smartphone but the refined version of the Smartphone. This seems like a smarter way of dealing with computer learning going forward. There's still a lot for me to see. It feels a lot like marketing. I want to know exactly how this is working.

Leo: There was... Craig Federiggi said, "Yeah, it's working. It's going to be amazing and you're going to love it. It's magic." What Matthew Greene says, he even has a graph. Let me see. It's probably not very helpful. Here's the graph. It's all clear. They're knobs you turn and you turn it too much one way and you fuzz the data too much, you're not going to get enough information out of it. You're going to increase privacy without getting information out of it. You turn the knob too much the other way, you're fuzzing the data but not sufficiently and privacy is compromised. The reason this is important is we know that these data dumps turn out to be surprisingly revealing. We've talked a lot about how meta data, the FBI says don't worry, we're using Meta Data. It can actually say a lot about you. Netflix dumped a few years ago a huge database. It had been anonymized in their attempt to get a better recommendation and they had a million dollar Netflix prize and here's the data set. Some enterprising researcher took the anonymized data set and putting information together from other sources was able to identify the movies that individual people were watching and liked. You can anonymize but it doesn't have to be effective so Beth Greene says it just depends how well this is implemented. It could be great, and it could be not so great. It could just be, they could wave their hands and say it's differential privacy. That in of itself doesn't do anything.

Owen: If Apple is going to be doing this on phone, does that mean we're finally going to get rid of the 16 gigabyte no sleep can't do nothing on the phone? We need a little bit more space. Every mom that I know, all they do is cry and complain about how they can't do anything on their phones. I'm like there's a reason that phone was so cheap. But Apple's slick marketing and ripping people off stupidity, if you're going to be doing a phone, the first phone better be a 32 gigabyte phone. 

Leo: At least! 

Owen: At the very least.

Leo: Devindra, didn't they do that with the AFC? The sixteen gig version?

Devindra: I can't say for sure. I mean the sixteen is still the minimum for the six. I haven't seen about the... 

Leo: I was reading rumors about the next iPhone. The iPhone seven.

Devindra: I saw some rumors, and these are just rumors, and nothing legit. There were definitely some documents that showed a sixteen gigabyte version is still being worked on or being developed and I really hope that's not the case. There is no excuse for Apple to do this in 2016. I have seen the arguments why and people have made very logical arguments for why it makes sense for Apple to have a low space iPhone, because maybe not everybody fills up their storage, but yeah. It doesn't make sense. 

Owen: Everybody fills up their storage because you give them a 4K device and it's a 4K video, and if they take one video of a puppy running in their backyard for 30 seconds, you have no more space. 

Leo: I'll argue the other side though. It's nice to have a phone that is more affordable.

Devindra: It's not that much more affordable.

Owen: You can up the price by 20 bucks and stop it. There's no need. The cost is so low. It's pure greed and evil. 

Leo: It is true that Apple overcharges. A hundred bucks for an additional sixteen gigs of memory is ridiculous.

Devindra: There's no more 32 gigabyte. Right? You have to jump from 16 to 64. That shows you the value of 64. It doesn't make sense. If Apple kept the 16 gigabyte and made it a hundred bucks cheaper or something, if it was actually below the premium of a typical iPhone, maybe fine. You can make an excuse for that.

Leo: Nobody in this crowd would buy one, but there are people who don't install additional apps. 

Owen: I'm telling you. I sit at soccer games with women all the time and they look at their phones and say, "I can't take any more pictures of my kids because I got too many pictures. What do I do?" I'm sitting there like, "do you have Amazon Prime? Because if you do, you can unload your... I'm telling people this daily, weekly... 

Georgia: You could just send it to the Cloud. I think that people just don't understand how much space. They don't even understand what takes up most space on their phone or how to check it out. Because of that, they take one video, then they get angry at the phone, it's not really the phone's fault, you shouldn't have bought the 16K. 

Devindra: It is the phone's fault though. Apple is selling a device with very limited memory. Yeah, you can send stuff to the cloud, but let's not pretend that managing your stuff in iCloud is easy. It's insane.

Owen: It's not free.

Devindra: It's not free and you have to pay more for it. It's one of those things. I hate to say this too much these days because it seems like the thing people jump to. It feels like something Steve Jobs's Apple wouldn't do. This is a bad user experience that Apple is selling for its marquis product. 

Leo: I think Steve Jobs's Apple would do this. I think Steve Jobs's Apple did do this. Remember they sell 8 gig iPhones. 

Owen: The megapixels were different, the space was different. Now we're telling people you don't know anything about Storage or anything? They put everything on Facebook. That's where they archive everything to have it saved somewhere. Stop it, Apple. I hate it. Fix it. 

Devindra: Now it seems like margins are more important to Apple than user experience. That is worrying to me. That's a sign of bigger problems coming down the line.

Leo: I have to be very careful. I think I'm overly negative on Apple. Partly because I was jilted. 

Georgia: Is that because they didn't invite you to WWD--

Leo: No, it has nothing to do with that, although people usually assume it has to do with that. I feel like I was an early Apple supporter. I bought a Macintosh in 1984. 

Devindra: You bought the cube?

Leo: I bought the cube. I got home and they announced they had discontinued it. I've owned every Mac. I'm a big Mac fan. I've owned every iPhone, I've owned every iPad. I'm not anti-Mac, but this is why I have to be careful. I kind of agree with you, Devindra. I see the writing on the wall that it's not the Apple that I fell in love with. It is an Apple that is more interested in consumers, in margins, in fashion, and that bothers me because you know what? I'm sorry, Georgia. I see all these styling pictures from Renee and the iMore team, your iMore Instagram is like fashion shots of iPhones and Apple bands and watches. Right? I'm sure that's conscious. 

Georgia: Every single company cares about their margins. There's no company that's happy to not... it's not just Apple that does that.

Devindra: Apple is the only one selling a 16 gigabyte Smartphone. 

Georgia: That is true. Unless it's for your granny that doesn't know how to take photos, or you want your kids to not be able to download anything or take photos with their phone, it doesn't have a great use case. I think that's going to be slowly moved away.

Leo: Do you participate in these iMore grams? 

Georgia: Renee is the real artist to it. I'm styling up the photos and taking pictures...

Leo: There's a lot of photo styling going on right now in the iMore...

Georgia: That is really what people love. They love to see tech candy. It's fun. Take a look at the way we can do it, make a pretty photo, see what people can do. But that's what people care about! 

Leo: A lot of new photos in here, but if you go back pre WWDC, there's a lot of photos like this. 

Georgia: Those are news photos, but we do a lot of pretty photos, but they're some of the most popular photos. We have...

Leo: Of course they're popular. 

Georgia: iPhone products, which is my favorite photo, it got the most set of likes. You could say that it's... we have one that's a pile of stuff. 

Leo: I know that one. Yeah.

Georgia: That gets a ton of likes. But we're just listening to what people want. 

Owen: Can we just say that we're in the valley at the moment with Apple? Apple has done what it does. They come in and they give you an iPhone, boom. Oh yeah! Then they come with the iPad, you're like, "Oh yeah!" They come with some MacBook Pros. "Uh OK." Then we're going to have this R and D period for the next five years until they make the new thing that everyone needs and they've made it better than everyone else. They can't always ascend into the sky, so in those meantimes, guess what you have to do? You have to fluff it up and put a dress and lipstick on that pig. 

Leo: That's why I'm using Linux. Because there's no way you can make this computer look pretty or fancy or stylish. It's just pure function. 

Georgia: Owen, you're so right. That's the only reason that I have the pink Mac. It's gorgeous. It's because it's pretty.

Leo: That's a consumer market. 

Georgia: I have to say the difference in sound quality makes it worth its while. I'm watching videos or having to listen to something.

Leo: You know what, Georgia? You're just rationalizing in your head. You're giving yourself a reason...

Georgia: I don't even use it. I use my MacBook air for everything, and this is like I'm having an affair with my other computer. I feel a little bad, because this is the one I take out to show everyone, but my beautiful MacBook Air is bent up and it's what I use my podcasting for. 

Leo: I confess we're going on vacation. What am I carrying with me? My MacBook. The lightest computer I have. 

Devindra: You have it right. We are in the valley period. There's nothing too exciting, the Apple watch was kind of a thing. Maybe Apple was hoping it would really take off, and it kind of has. It's like they're selling.

Leo: They haven't updated the Mac Pro since 2013. They haven't even put a new chip in it. So it's kind of bad, because it's hand in hand with doing the least upgradable Mac Pro ever. There's nothing you can upgrade in it. They're upgrading it, and I feel I bought a Mac Pro. I feel ripped off. I feel like they abandoned me with that trash can.

Owen: To be fair, my 2012 MacBook pro is still such a beast and champion. It's all maxed out. I'm doing Final Cut Pro, I'm using Adobe, I'm burning this bad boy. Guess what? We still flying high in the sky. I think the same thing. I wanted a MacBook Pro because Apple has conditioned me to want a new computer every few years...

Leo: That's across the board. It's one of the reasons PC sales are dropping. PC sales are dropping because you don't need a new PC because five years ago PC was as fast as ever and then you've got Craig Federiggi or Phil Schiller at the last Apple event saying I feel so sorry for people using five year old Notebooks. I felt insulted by that. The reason those Notebooks are still in use is because they're plenty fast enough and b, Apple is selling fashion. Why? Every year you need to buy a new one because it's now rose gold. Fashion gets updated. Nowadays technology doesn't need to be updated.

Owen: And Macbook Pros don't get fashionized. 

Leo: You got me doing this. I wasn't going to do this.

Devindra: Let's not pretend the MacBook Pro, the unibody design, that is a gorgeous looking... when it came out a lot of people did complain. You're paying a premium for a fancy high end laptop. 

Leo: But every PC company copied it. Intel announced the Ultra books, which is a copy of a MacBook Pro. Everyone else made MacBook Air clones. Apple led the way but the problem is they haven't updated in years. 

Devindra: I won't knock Apple for focusing on Style, especially if you leave the Industry alone, they're going to make ugly boxes. So that's what Apple is good at. But if Apple were to upgrade the Mac Pro, this is the year to do it, because we have new Intel chips coming at the end of the year, they confirmed they're still coming. New card, new video cards. The 200 dollar radion that's going to be VR capable. That's a really exciting and interesting device. Now is a really good time for PC hardware to come back, so hopefully we'll see that stuff integrated in future Mac Pros and iMacs as well. 

Leo: Here's where I'm like the guy who is jilted. Do you think Apple will ever date it later this year? Maybe it will all be OK.

Owen: First of all, you and your jilted-ness. You have a separate warehouse. I'm going to tell them. 

Leo: It's depressing.

Owen: Leo has, I'm not going to insult it by calling it a warehouse. Leo has a digital bunker that is just stacked up of... you know how people got a library of books? He's got laptops. 

Leo: Not any more. We have a 10,000 square foot basement downstairs, empty now. In fact... no we got rid of a lot of stuff. First of all...

Georgia: When did you do that?

Leo: Maybe a week ago. I started and it was like little bits of my life story lying there. Oh my god, that's my phone from 2004. Oh, I remember that phone. That number! In my mind, I'm starting to sing the John Lennon song. There are places I remember. I had a theme song going. It's in the basement and I'm sad and crying because my old technology and now it's gone. 

Owen: Where's my inheritance? 

Leo: I had not one, but two Amigas. 

Owen: I want to know where it is. You told me that you would leave everything to me. 

Leo: Where did it go Burke? What happened to it? Burke had a yard sale. 

Owen: I would have had you sign the stuff. I would have been eBaying the stuff on the Internet. I would have gave ten percent of it to charity, or at least lie like people say they're going to give ten percent to charity and double the money! You would never think about me when you're doing stuff! 

Leo: I'm giving it all to the Trump foundation. That's exactly what I'm doing.

Owen: You're fired. The next bunker is my bunker, jiminy Christmas. 

Leo: Amigas. Ataris. Commador pets. I had...

Owen: Stop talking. What else is on the list?

Devindra: Before we wrap up WWDC, I'm kind of in between where you guys are. It's a very interesting conference, it wasn't a very exciting one, but the whole idea of Apple opening up 3D touch and Apple pay and things like that. Apple is playing better with others, so I think that alone is going to be interesting to see. 

Leo: Siri needed it. Let's face it. Siri was another example of a neglected product that finally Apple... we'll see.

Owen: They're always behind. Cortana... Apple does everything now at the retrospective to everything else. They watch everybody else have a car set on fire, and Apple comes in and says, we put that fire out. Look at our car. I know that...

Georgia: Isn't that the smart way for Apple to do it? It takes a look see where somebody else is making a mistake and goes in and does it better. Apple doesn't do well when it's first on the field. It doesn't do a good job. They weren't the first for phones, they weren't the first for watches, they weren't the first for laptops. When they do it, they do it better. But no, they're not the first out in the field, and I don’t want them first out in the field, because then we'll be sitting here complaining about how Apple should not have made this new trash compactor that doesn't work. 

Owen: Can they not be eight years late in the field? Can they not be four generations late in the field? Oh guess what we can do? We can copy and paste the picture. Shut up. 

Georgia: OK, but what about the SOS? That is a brilliant idea. I can press a button my watch. I don't have to look if I'm being stalked, someone is chasing me, I can just press the button. Three seconds, I'm going to have my location and someone to help me out. That sounds life changing for elderly, for women.

Owen: They have a card thing you can put in your wallet and it does the same thing all over the globe. All it does is call 9-1-1. I'm just saying...

Devindra: Yeah, but it also alerts your contacts. That's a genuinely useful thing. I'm wearing an Apple Watch right now. It seems like something every wearable should have. The idea that something could happen to you anywhere in the world, not just you being injured, and you're somewhere where nobody is around and you need to get help immediately, maybe your phone is not near you. That sort of thing is generally...

Georgia: When you're really nervous and stressed out and someone is following you, you're not going to be able to dial, you're not going to be able to open... I wouldn't be able to stick my finger print onto it. This is easy. It's one button, I don’t have to worry about it. The only thing I worry about is by mistake pressing it. Having suddenly a party somewhere. But even for my kids, I think to myself with my kids walking home, this is a wonderful thing for them to be able to have with them, so I think that's going to be... they're going to make a trend. It's going to be everywhere after this. 

Owen: Just a note for anybody who might want to walk up on Georgia, I doubt that's going to work out for you.

Leo: Georgia actually is a ninja. 

Owen: Yeah. You should be nervous if she walks up on you. Press the button if you see her coming down the street. 

Leo: You will never see Georgia coming, you will just see her passing, with a kick in the head. I was a little disappointed. Apple said we were going to re-invent Apple music. It didn't seem like a huge re-invention. Now Saint Bows was awesome. It was nice to have some pizzaz.

Owen: Color?

Leo: Color for sure. But even more than that, she had zest. 

Georgia: She was great. The pace was so different when she came on. She had all this energy, this great energy. It took her a while to have to warm up the audience. Not an easy audience. Tech people are not the easiest to get grooving, but I have to say that was fabulous and refreshing. 

Leo: She is, according to her Twitter biography head diva of global consumer marketing. She went from 4,000 Twitter followers before that keynote to 15,000 today. So she did something right. She was also fashionable. She wore... that was a designer dress. She was singing to the rapper's delight there. 

Owen: She brought a whole new energy level to it. When she left it was like awww. Back to this. I'm sitting there thinking maybe they should have more fun people do this. Without any hardware, without anything for my internal man gears to be like "wow" it was the worst thing to sit there and watch them repeat themselves over and over again. This is what we're going to do, we're going to sparkly erase some text messages and put blankety balloons up there. Shoot me in my face if I ever... Georgia, if you ever text me with balloons...

Georgia: It's 3 times bigger emoji, it's going to be all of it and it's going to be a full day. 

Owen: Because I'm elderly, I need to see bigger emojis. Bigger... 

Devindra: It's expressing emotion, just louder.

Georgia: She was great. I don't really remember anything that she spoke about. She was amazing. I can't say that Apple music... I was busy listening to her and the songs and getting the Beats.

Owen: Basically, it's simpler to use. It's just simpler. It's still a mess, but it's simpler.

Leo: It also makes a distinction between your songs, downloaded songs, and streaming songs, which will help people from accidental deletions. 

Devindra: How is that not there from the start? The whole Apple Music hiding your library a little, that was the most baffling UI choice I've seen in a long time from Apple. 

Leo: It made me turn off Apple Music. 

Georgia: I didn't open Apple Music for three months after that. It was so frustrating every time I would go in there. It's like, You know what? Forget about it. 

Owen: I love Apple music. I love it.

Leo: Do you?

Owen: I love it.

Georgia: You don't like sparkly text, but you love Apple music?

Owen: You know what? I love driving in my car and Leah says, Dad put on that song, and I hit the button and I'm like Siri play that song, and Siri is playing that song. 

Leo: That's the huge strength is Siri, right? You can ask...

Georgia: Siri works good. I can say, "Siri, play songs from the fifties for my Dad," and it'll actually play songs from the fifties. The greatest hits. That is nice. I'll give you that. 

Owen: I don't have to look at it to get what I want.

Leo: Unfortunately, they mentioned that Siri has an API and you're going to be able to write apps. I don't think music is one of the things that it will work with. It's payments, it's limited. So that means Apple is going to continue to own that one. That's the other thing I got. Messages. Catch up with SnapChat. This is nice, this is great. You know what I'd really like? That it works on Android as well as iPhones because Android people get left out and it's really Apple is all about the lock in. Less about its customers and convenience, more about how can we lock them in? All right. Let's quickly talk about the Apple TV, because that was in fact a stealth Trojan horse into the home for home kit. And now they came out and said we're going to have an Apple Home App. The hub in your house will be your Apple TV.” Although, for those who don’t have an Apple TV, and there are many countries you can’t get one, you could also use your iPad as the Home and that will be the always on, it has to be plugged in and always on, always on the Wi-Fi. But that will be the way you can, when you’re not home, talk to your house. And a lot of people signed up for the HomeKit, including our sponsor Ring just announced today that they’re going to support HomeKit. That could be a big win. Home automation is not a very, it’s a very fragmented, very difficult area right now.

Devindra: I don’t know if anybody wants it. That’s the bigger problem.

Leo: That’s the bigger question (laughing).

Devindra: I’ve been able to buy a light that I can remotely control, you know, from my phone, for what, 5 years now? I don’t care. I think it’s still in the box somewhere.

Leo: There are some things. I mean I like the idea of a camera on my doorbell. There’s some things that are useful. Home security although what we’re learning with home automation and home security is you don’t want it to be wireless because then it’s easy for the bad guy to jam the radios and then completely defeat your security system. Oops. And then there’s this whole security issue in general of the internet of things and these companies not paying any attention at all to protecting your network. I’m sure Apple will though. And I think if Apple becomes the—you know we keep waiting for a company to come along and make this easier. Maybe it will be Apple. 

Owen: So going forward, I’m totally agree with Devindra on this, if you think that it’s going to change everything, again, I already have my lights. Just turned them red. I’ve got a Nest. I’ve got an Iris alarm system from Lowes. And I actually like everything being separate because if you’re going to—

Leo: And none of that is real compelling is it?

Owen: I have all the apps in one block so Apple’s “security” is the only thing that would encourage me. But like I said, I’ve been doing this for so long, am I really going to get out of my ecosystem, my workflow that I’m used to? Hmm. Hmm.

Georgia: Well I think that people will if they can just say like you know, “Apple, I’m leaving the house.” And like everything gets shut down to being able to be more secure. Lights get turned down, the TV gets turned off. The temperature gets to be on out mode and security is turned on. I think that if it ends up being effortless to be able to work a whole bunch of different devices because they’re listening to each other and so that they can work in conjunction one to the other, I think that would make a difference if you know, my home security I get a call saying, “You know what? Your temperature’s gone down to this.” And it’s all in one system? I would trust Apple to be able to do that and to do a good job with it. And I think that’s what would cause people to jump from having many different devices to do one thing to having one home centralized system that would be able to run them all.

Leo: It’s another one of those, well, we’ll just have to wait and see.

Devindra: It seems more like a gradual thing. Like maybe you’ll add a remote here somewhere. You’ll get a security system. But I don’t, yea, I don’t know if Apple’s going to be compelling enough to make people go into its system. I wonder if this is a situation where HomeKit may have to play better with the existing standards too.

Leo: Let’s take a break. Come back with more. Devindra Hardawar from Engadget, Senior Editor there. From, Georgia Dow. OhDoctah from places unknown (laughing). He’s just cool.

Georgia: I can spin. Don’t spin. I can spin. You don’t do the spin.

Leo: Let’s all spin.

Georgia: We’re all going to spin.

Leo: I can spin in my Dr. Evil chair.

Georgia: Where’s the cat? You need Mr. Bigglesworth.

Leo: It’s most evil when I spin, I can spin the whole studio. Did you see that? It’s most—whoa. It’s most evil when I spin all the way around. Watch this. This is good.

Georgia: Oh, look at that. What is up with that.

Leo: I brought you all here to talk about sharks with lasers.

Owen: It’s from the bunker. That’s part of the bunker chair.

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Leo: I think we’ve covered WWDC. We got it all, right? Ready to go to E3? Or wait a minute. I want a palette cleanser. In between the heavy courses here. Let’s have a little palette cleanser, a little something from OnePlus called the OnePlus 3. Devindra, you must have one, right?

Devindra: I don’t have one.

Leo: What?

Devindra: It was Chris Velazco who reviewed it. But it’s a nice looking phone. What did they say, it’s like $400 bucks with all the high-end features?

Leo: I’m pretty excited. I’ve ordered one for myself. It won’t come until next week. Because I need something to put on the pile. You know, we’ve completed. I’ve got to start over.

Devindra: This is how your next—

Leo: Got to start a new one. A new bunk pile. But we had Florence Ion on the New Screen Savers yesterday. She had a OnePlus 3. She’d had it for a couple of weeks. She was reviewing it. Very impressed. All aluminum. Kind of looks like that HTC 10 aluminum body.

Devindra: Everything looks like the HTC 10. 

Leo: I know.

Devindra: Like the iPhone does. Come on.

Leo: It’s thin. It does have that iPhone thinness. I know MKBHT was complaining and I agree with him. I don’t disagree with him that the camera bump is so big, he says “Don’t make it so thin. Make it as big as the camera bump and have more battery.” It is a smaller battery than last year, 3,000 milliamp hours. Although I’ve seen a lot of reviews. Florence agreed that the battery life is decent, right. As good as—

Georgia: How long is the battery life?

Leo: Well, people don’t like to give numbers because everybody’s knowledge may vary. She says it’s as good as the S7 which is pretty good. She says it wasn’t as good for her as the S7 Edge which is what I use. I really want a—I would like to replace the S7 Edge. It’s a more pure Google experience because they use Oxygen which is OnePlus’ version of Android that is pretty close to stock Android. Snappy, 820, one weird spec. They put 6 gigs of RAM in it. And there’s a little dispute over, you know, whether that 6 gigs even is necessary or is used. 

Devindra: Right.

Leo: XDA developers say, “As far as we can tell, because they’re fairly aggressive about killing background apps, you never really get close to using 6 gigs of RAM.” So it’s more like a spec they put in there but nobody’s going to ever need.

Owen: It sounds good though.

Leo: It sounds good, doesn’t it?

Owen: When you’re doing—

Georgia: People always want more.

Owen: What, they got 6 up in there? Ok, ok.

Devindra: It may be useful for Android VR down the line. As we see more mobile VR things take off, like having those higher specs will be a big deal.

Leo: Oh, but this would not be a good choice for VR because it’s a 1080p screen.

Devindra: Oh, right.

Leo: So lower res screen means not so good for VR. It is, they call it an optic AMOLED.

Devindra: It’s AMOLED. Ok.

Leo: It’s not PenTile though so it’s not as good as the Super AMOLED that—Samsung has the best screens. They just, Samsung owns these screens, you know? They’ve locked in the market.

Devindra: And the thing about like true VR too is I’ve talked to the Oculus folks, they – you need an OLED mobile screen to do VR right. So that’s one thing that even the iPhone right now will not—you can have some 360 degree experiences, but you can’t have, even something like the Samsung Gear VR at this point.

Leo: Why do you need OLED?

Devindra: It’s because of the way, I think it’s the response time is just must lower and—

Leo: Latency is everything on these. That’s what makes people—

Devindra: Exactly.

Georgia: It will make you sick. It will make you sick unfortunately. It can be a really poor VR experience if you don’t have it, so.

Leo: Have you noticed that when you use Cardboard on your iPhone, Georgia, that it makes you more queasy than?

Georgia: Yea. Like the latency is something that you want to and it’s also just like you know, if it becomes pixel-ized, you’re not going to feel as comfortable while you’re using it. And I think that that’s the thing is that even when at one point on the Vive, like the floor kind of moved at a different, like when I wasn’t moving, I had something downloading on my computer at the same time, and I was like, “Well I have to sit down.” And so if you have a bad VR experience, you’re never going to go back to it. So it’s better to have a screen that’s going to be able to not give you a latency and also to be able to see things really smoothly.

Leo: So don’t buy this and hope to use it with Google Cardboard or a VR Visor. It does do some interesting things with power. They have something called Dash Charge. It requires a proprietary adapter. You have to use their adaptor. But it apparently, according to specs and in fact to Florence, 60% charge in just half an hour. 

Georgia: That’s amazing.

Leo: Yea, in fact one reviewer, I can’t remember at Engadget, said “This changes how I think about charging my phone. I don’t even charge it overnight. I just charge it at meals, like for breakfast or something because it charges up so fast.” Fast fingerprint reader. I was very impressed with that. It feels very snappy. It’s a very fast phone. Color’s good.

Devindra: Do you need it, Leo, or are you just—

Leo: Oh, I don’t need it. I just buy them because I want to review them. Oh, no, no but that’s my job. No, no, that’s my job. I need to review them. And I could have called OnePlus and said, “Hey, we need to review it.” But I don’t like, I don’t want to be called back.

Owen: He’s the Bernie Sanders of Tech. He’s not going to be persuaded by gifts. He’s going to spend his cold, hard cash.

Leo: No, I want to tell you, I do not have to call. I buy. What is with the jacket? What is that?

Owen: You’re about to be that old too, so.

Leo: (Laughing) You’re right. Soon I’ll be walking around.

Owen: You gave away my inheritance. You are on the hot seat for the rest of the day. 

Leo: That was your inheritance?

Owen: You don’t know the kind of mint I could have made off of, I mean you don’t know the sentimental value in my heart.

Leo: Yea, now I’ve got it. Yea.

Owen: You don’t understand.

Leo: You sound like my son right about now.

Owen: That’s why he sending text messages. Now I know what’s going on over there.

Leo: Yea, yea. 

Owen: Giving away our future.

Leo: By the way, clever slogan for Dash, Less Time in the Socket, More Time in the Pocket.

Georgia: Ooo.

Leo: Sounds vaguely filthy.

Georgia: (Laughing) voracious.

Leo: It sounds like I don’t know.

Owen: And that charge time. I’ve got to check it but my iPhone charges pretty quick. I also do the cheat thing where I put it on airplane mode but my phone charges up like nothing.

Leo: Ok, so you raise an interesting thing. You have to put it in airplane mode. So that is true on all of these quick charges. If the phone is on, it charges much more slowly. This does not work that way because the charger is external. So it in fact charges just as fast whether you’re in airplane mode or not.

Owen: I understand that they say that but again, when a person says, “I get up in the morning and do my 30-minute thing.” Well my 30-minute thing, I’m not answering my phone. I’m taking a shower, brushing my teeth and making some eggs.

Leo: Perfect. That’s when you charge it up.

Owen: And my bacon. And if I charge it up I don’t need it right now. So.

Devindra: This tech isn’t exactly something new. It’s something Qualcomm’s been putting in for a while now.

Leo: Is Dash the same as Quick Charge?

Devindra: I’m not quite sure if it’s the same. I haven’t looked at the specs but I’m surprised that more companies aren’t taking full advantage of that stuff, right? They’re all using these same chips but they might not all be enabling the same features. But you can get something similar from you know, the new Galaxy and stuff and everything and other phones. 

Leo: I buried the lead because the real point of this is $399. 64 gig storage, 6 gigs RAM, 820. 

Devindra: 64 gigs of storage, eh?

Leo: There’s nothing lower, nothing bigger.

Owen: There you go.

Leo: One size fits all. 

Owen: Because that’s what every—stop it. Yea, again. I don’t want to get angry again. That’s great. Great job, guys.

Georgia: Don’t make Owen angry.

Leo: $399 and 64 gigs with Android is plenty. 

Devindra: For sure.

Leo: And $399’s good. No SD card. It does have a fingerprint reader. 

Devindra: Yea it does, doesn’t it?

Leo: It does. No it has a very good fingerprint reader, fast. You know I think the point is that here’s basically a flagship phone at half the cost of what other people charge.

Devindra: This is what OnePlus has been moving towards for years, so it’s kind of cool that they’ve finally gotten there. I wonder how long we will see $600, $700 dollar Android phones coming out because I’ve just noticed. Like after writing about them and reviewing some of them for so long, they’re just, they’re not that interesting anymore either. 

Leo: I know, I know.

Devindra: They’re great and we’re seeing really incremental improvements. But I don’t care about mobile too much unless it’s going to be about VR. There is a lot of things. Like we are way past like the tech people actually need for a really fast and functional smartphone.

Leo: Ok, that was our amuse bouche, our palette cleanser. Just a little OnePlus 3 palette. I feel so much better.

Georgia: Am I the only one that wants just all my phones to be inductive charging now? 

Leo: I do. And you can’t do that with a metal phone.

Georgia: I don’t want to plug in anything. In the middle of the night when I’m bumping around.

Leo: Yea, you can’t do that with a metal phone. No, I’m with you.

Georgia: I want it all inductive.

Leo: That’s why Apple’s doesn’t do it either because it’s metal.

Devindra: Hopefully yea, hopefully we’ll see more of that. I’ve actually been testing out Mophie’s new charging cases that all have wireless charging built in. It’s pretty cool. And they’re actually going to be doing this moving forward in all of their cases. And that’s smart, right, because you can make an argument for having a battery case, but having one that you just plop down. 

Georgia: I love that.

Devindra: And they’ve got these cool magnetic charging cradles and stuff too and even like a stand for your desk or your car. And your phone just clips on like that. It’s a really smart use of wireless charging. And it’s been nice. It’s nice just dropping my phone down.

Georgia: Yea, and not having to fiddle around and worry about putting it in and is it all done right. Just set it and forget it.

Devindra: Yea, the magnet helps out.

Leo: Less time in the socket, more time in the pocket.

Devindra: Not quite true for wireless but yea. It charges slower.

Leo: No time in the socket at all actually. More time in the—

Devindra: More time in the—

Georgia: It’s always in the pocket.

Leo: More time on the pad, less time in your dad. 

Georgia: Oh.

Leo: (laughing).

Owen: I just, I’m so tired of plugging in things. The technology is so hard.

Leo: No, wireless. Wireless.

Georgia: It was censored. Don’t do that, Owen. No, it’s antiquated. We are so beyond that.

Leo: I don’t know nothing about charging no wireless.

Owen: Oh, I’ve got it. Ok.

Georgia: No, too much work. Too much work.

Devindra: I like how you were actively trying not to plug it in because it’s so easy now to just plug it in.

Owen: Oh, but you make it sound so difficult with the pad you just plop it and you flop it.

Devindra: No it’s nice though. If you have your phone at your desk or something. It’s a nice way to like kind of simplify our technology a bit. If it’s in your car, right, if you have one of those magnet charging vents instead of like dangling a cable from the phone to the car charger and everything, you just plop your phone on and there you go.

Owen: But then you’ve got to buy an adapter because I bought a new phone this year.

Georgia: There’s so many tech, so much tech is all dead because I haven’t charged it because I don’t want to find the stupid wire. I hate having wires all over the place. Like my podcast room is like wires—

Owen: The pad is the same thing as a wire. It’s got to be somewhere.

Devindra: No it can hold multiple things technically.

Georgia: I just want to have a big table where I can just set everything on. It’s always going to be charged. It’s ridiculous to have all these wires everywhere. They’re ugly. They look horrible. I have to fiddle around. I have to find the right charging for whichever one. They each have a different type of dongle. I’m so done with it.

Owen: That pad’s going to cost you the price of a small child with all these devices you’re talking about.

Leo: Actually though—

Owen: The whole desk is a pad. I set my laptop down. I put my TV on it. I put my Apple TV on it.

Leo: And by the way, don’t touch anything because you don’t want to move it off the charge spot. It will stop charging. Ah, you touched it.

Devindra: The next step is like truly wireless, like magnetic resonance charging. And I’ve seen a couple companies work with that right now and that could be really—

Leo: My toothbrush does it. What is that?

Devindra: I think I was talking to Ossia. This is a company, they have like this—they were at CES. They have like this big, you know it’s a machine that sits in the corner of your room or something and it’s just like sending out power wirelessly. And if you have their chip or one of their cases or something you just have to be looking at it and your phone will be getting power.

Leo: You just look at it and your phone charges.

Georgia: I don’t know. That seems kind of scary.

Devindra: It’s using line of sight start stuff right now.

Leo: But how far? How far?

Devindra: I’m not sure how far. It was like in a room. So it was just like—

Leo: A few feet.

Devindra: No, maybe it could me like 20 feet or so. I didn’t get to test it fully. But it’s more like in 5 to 10 years like, it’s sort of like we used to think about Wi-Fi, right? The idea of internet, you put your computer down and you’re getting internet from nowhere. That was amazing. And that’s want I want to get to.

Leo: I don’t think that stuff’s going to work. I think you would fry your kidneys if you did that.

Devindra: Everyone said that about Wi-Fi. It’s the same. It’s very similar.

Leo: No, because the difference is, Wi-Fi is just transmitting information. This has to send enough energy to charge a phone through your kidney. That is different. That is different.

Devindra: That’s interesting. To me ultimately that’s more interesting than even the wireless charging pads because then, yea, you just walk in and everything is getting power. Or even like they posed this idea of like you walk into maybe a mall or something and they’re, you know, generating free power.

Leo: You’re charging as you go. Charging as you walk!

Devindra: You pay like $5 bucks and get your phone charged as you walk around the mall. Stuff like that.

Owen: Your kidneys have 25% more power, Leo.

Leo: (Laughing) It’s just a cancer in the making. I don’t think it’s a good idea.

Owen: America is a cancer waiting as well. Imagine you have like, what’s the thing in the heart where it pumps the thing, you’ve got a heart that it needs it?

Devindra: Pacemaker.

Owen: A pacemaker. Just filling up the juice in your pacemaker. You don’t have to go through surgery to get a new battery put in, Uncle Leo. This is amazing. And that’s what I’m waiting for. Forget your little pad.

Leo: I think this, and you know there’s another system that we already think know was snake oil, which is uBeam, right? So this was the same idea only using high sounds, supersonic sound across the room to charge. They’re still a company as far as I know but one of the engineers wrote a post saying, yea, no that doesn’t work.

Owen: Well I’m not a dolphin.

Leo: And the investors were pissed at this guy. No, it doesn’t, we never really, it didn’t really work. But I would trust sound waves more than I would trust whatever the high powered magnetic resonance waves. Let me ask you this. If you get an MRI does the technician stay in the room or does he get behind a lead sheet?

Georgia: Yes.

Leo: Yea. Uh huh.

Devindra: I may have been wrong.

Leo: I’m not wearing lead underpants just because I want to charge my phone across the room. 

Devindra: I don’t think it’s actually magnetic. It may be something else. But whatever they’re doing, it’s kind of interesting. Like to me that’s going to be much more useful to us down the line then even like yea, like the pads.

Leo: Magnetic induction? I don’t know what it is. 

Owen: E3. Get off of my power. 

Devindra: There you go.

Leo: Yea.

Devindra: There you go.

Leo: All right. Oh, we have so much more to talk about. But I do want to take a little bit of a break because we had a great week. This was a very big week. We had E3, Fr. Robert and Bryan were down. Did you have a good time at E3, Bryan?

Bryan Burnett: I had a great time. First day was a blur. Second day I actually got to walk around and check things out a little bit more.

Leo: Yea and we’re going to talk about the big announcements but there were also lots of games. Did you see any games that made you really want to play?

Bryan: Yea, everywhere you turned. But the ones that leap out are the new Zelda but that’s probably not coming out until the next Nintendo’s released. And there was a pirate game that looked pretty cool where it’s like 6 players co-op.

Leo: You know you showed that one on your wrap up and it looked like a lot of steering a ship around.

Bryan: Yea, yea. Pirate stuff. Get scurvy.

Leo: Boring. I don’t want to. Is this a fun game or what? Arrr. Avast ye maties. Missen up the power mast. Put on the magnetic resonant induction. Arr.

Bryan: It is a co-op experience, matey.

Leo: I feel a co-op in my blood. I was very excited about Cuphead. But I wanted to point out that Cuphead was also a big excitement in E3 last year.

Devindra: Yes, yea, yea.

Leo: So like what are they just going to keep showing the same trailer every year until—I mean, anyway. 

Devindra: It’s a smaller studio making that game. It takes a while.

Owen: Do you know why that appeals to you, Uncle Leo? 

Leo: Cuphead? Why?

Owen: I’m asking you. Do you have an answer? Because I’m going to tell you if you’re right or wrong or not.

Leo: I feel like Cuphead appeals to me because it reminds me of my youth.

Owen: Yep, that’s exactly why because you’re an old man and you remember the black and white cartoons where Mickey Mouse would zoom into space.

Leo: (Laughing) surely even you watched these cartoons, right? I mean—

Owen: I’m half your age and I do remember them. My grandparents would put them on and they were delightful.

Leo: Your grandparents would put them on. You’re just hitting below the belt now. You know my kidney’s are already half baked from that magnetic charging system.

Owen: You gave away my inheritance. I told you.

Leo: Doesn’t this look like a fun game?

Owen: It looks great.

Devindra: Yea.

Leo: Yea. 

Georgia: It looks cute. I don’t know. 2D games in comparison to VR games, I don’t know.

Leo: Yea, yea.

Devindra: But something like that makes me—

Georgia: I did.

Leo: You’re really into VR now. You’re like the VR Queen.

Georgia: I can’t go back. You cannot go back. It’s just one of those things. You’re like, eh, ok.

Leo: Now this is a side scroller and I have to say that the Oculus Rift comes with a side scroller. Fox, what is it, Fox Tales?

Devindra: Lucky Tale.

Leo: Lucky Tale. 

Devindra: It’s sort of like a side scroller except you’re like—

Leo: You’re in it. You’re in it. It’s super cool though because it makes it so fun.

Owen: Until I can play like Gods of War or Drake’s Fortune or Tomb Raider in one of those games—

Leo: You want the realistic experience.

Georgia: Vanishing Realms. You are in it. You are—

Leo: Is this on the Vive.

Georgia: It’s on the Vive.

Owen: I can go skeet shooting.

Leo: Do we own Vanishing Realms, Bryan?

Bryan: Not that I know of.

Leo: I’m going to go back there and buy it.

Georgia: You should buy it. It’s one of the best games. Truly, one of the best games. Better than Starseed.

Leo: I’ll confess to you that while I like it and I enjoy it, I don’t find it compelling enough that I-- having a free moment go back and play the Vive. We have it all set up. It’s just back there. 

Devindra: Once you go through some of the initial experiences, have you played—

Leo: Oh, I’ve played this game. This is dopey. 

Georgia: No, you have to go, you have to go further in. Like the 2nd, the 1st part is a little bit slower.

Leo: I got the things and I put them in the bowl and I lit them on fire and then the skeleton.

Georgia: No, go further. Go further in. The 2nd episode is so great.

Leo: Is it? Does it get better?

Owen: You don’t play real games.

Georgia: It’s really, really good.

Leo: I like real games.

Owen: No, you play real games. Georgia does not.

Leo: This is a cheesy, this is kind of a cheesy—and that’s part of the problem with VR right now is that the games are not as vivid and as immersive because—

Owen: I’m just waiting.

Leo: Yea, the technology is not ready for that yet.

Devindra: Have you played Adr1ft, Leo? That’s the one where you’re sort of like in space and you’re—

Leo: On the Rift. That made me hurl like nobody’s business. That’s one game that really will make you hurl because you’re like this. It’s very vivid.

Devindra: Yea.

Leo: But you get space sickness.

Devindra: This is an entirely new medium. Like I can understand your skepticism, Owen, but it’s like it’s new. What is happening here?

Georgia: You have to like take a couple months.

Devindra: We need to figure out how we deal with this new narrative, medium, but we’re seeing cool things. Like there’s this pretty cool you know, I’ve seen—

Leo: Adr1ft is definitely cool because you get the experience of being in zero G.

Devindra: Have you played Brookhaven on the Vive?

Leo: No, no, no, no. There’s Adr1ft.

Georgia: Brookhaven is great. It’s great but you’re in the center. You’re in the center and zombies are coming at you.

Leo: I want to be scared. I want to be scared.

Devindra: Brookhaven, like you’re in an abandoned parking lot, zombies are coming after you, and there’s no, you have a gun and a flashlight but there’s no reticle. Like you have to aim it as if you were aiming a real gun.

Leo: Oh, that’s good.

Devindra: A certain sense of aiming. It’s a really great release, scary. And we’re seeing VR kind of tap into these new experiences that games right now really can’t do.

Leo: The hot new reticle-less game category.

Owen: I fully understand that Lawn Mower Man is cutting my grass right now. He’s here. I get that. I’m fully excited for Resident Evil in VR because again, that has a story. It has a life of its own. I’m excited about—

Devindra: There are a VR games with stories right now. And actually you brought up Resident Evil.

Owen: I know, but not new stories.

Leo: I’m looking for a VR game I can play sitting down.

Owen: I want something real.

Leo: I just want to relax.

Devindra: in the Resident Evil Franchise that’s new. 

Leo: I want to sit down. That’s why I like the PlayStation VR because you’re sitting down you’re going like this.

Devindra: We wrote a hand-on on the Resident Evil PS VR experience and it’s rough because they haven’t figured out the frame rate right so it made one of our writers, Jessica Conditt, it made her incredibly sick. And she’s somebody that’s never had motion sickness.

Leo: And by the way, that sickness, that lasts. You are sick for a while.

Devindra: Yea, she was out, like down for 10 to 20 minutes.

Georgia: There’s a way to get rid of it if you’re really sick from using VR, take a slice of fresh ginger, slice a piece right off and chew it and in about 15 minutes it will go away. It’s better than anything else.

Leo: I had an Airforce pilot tell me, you take a washcloth and you put it in a bowl of ice water. And you fold it up nice and then you put it right on the back of your neck. And it makes—

Georgia: The ginger will work faster even then medication that you can get from prescription. It is that effective.

Leo: I want a game where I’m on the porch and I’m saying, it’s going to bell called Get Off My Lawn.

Georgia: Get Off My Lawn.

Leo: And I’m gonna, “Hey, get off of my lawn.”

Owen: You’re just going to be OhDoctah yelling at other people wearing VR. It will be me on the porch yelling at people wearing yard masks.

Leo: Hey, get off my lawn. 

Devindra: The reason I bring up the PS VR stuff is just I’m kind of worried from some of the things we saw at E3 because we saw Sony, they’re mandating what, 60FPS for those games?

Leo: Yea.

Devindra: Even though we know at this point, we’ve known for a year or so at least from what Oculus and HTC have found but you really need 90FPS. You need a really nice, smooth frame rate and fast refresh rate to kind of make the games look good and not make you sick. The 60FPS stuff on the PS VR could be a problem because it wasn’t just Resident Evil.

Leo: It’s not enough.

Devindra: It was Final Fantasy 7. Or not 7, Final Fantasy 15. They had a weird little VR experience that was also making people sick. Like I’m worried that the PS4 as it is right now doesn’t have enough horsepower to like really give good smooth VR experiences. And that could be a big problem for Sony.

Georgia: That could be a big thing for VR altogether too because it people have enough really poor experiences with VR, they’re not going to want to go back to it. They’re going to say, “Listen, that made me nauseous.” They won’t know about the ginger trick to be able to get rid of it in like 10 minutes. And so they’re going to feel nauseous. And you will feel sick for like a good 4 hours. For some people it’s like 6 to 8 hours you will feel a little bit off.

Leo: Exactly. Exactly. It’s not good.

Georgia: The rest of the time but it’s not good and that’s the problem is that VR’s so new is people are going to be like, “You know what? This is not good. Don’t ever try it.” I had with the HTC Vive, and that’s like running at 90 frames per second, there’s a few games that are just really processer heavy and I can feel, there’s a little bit of latency and so I’m like, “Ok, I’m going to have to wait on that game.” So.

Leo: I talked to—

Owen: Hopefully they will have new hardware that they haven’t announced. Like Microsoft’s announced, they call it their new Xbox Morpheus Project 8 Zelda Nation.

Devindra: Scorpio.

Georgia: Scorpio.

Owen: Yea, you’re right. But basically it’s just a PC with an Xbox sticker on it.

Leo: Hold on, hold on. I do want to talk about that and we’ll talk about more in just a second. We’re going to take a little break here. And I want to show you, because I think Bryan you’re in this, a little bit of what you might have missed if you missed this week on TWiT.


Narrator: Previously on TWiT: TWiT Live Specials.

Father Robert Ballecer: From the latest and greatest software releases, to the slickest, the fastest and most stylish hardware, to an Indie festival that pops up in the middle of the show floor, we brought TWiT TV here to Los Angeles for E3 2016.

Narrator: This Week in Law

Denise Howell: We’re joined by Rebecca Crootof. Rebecca is an expert on all things related to lethal autonomous weapons systems.

Rebecca Crootof: You can imagine a situation where an autonomous weapons system takes some action that would constitute a serious violation of international humanitarian law. But no person acted willfully.

Narrator: The New Screen Savers.

Leo: Flo’s review of the OnePlus 3, ladies and gentlemen. This is going to be the modders choice because of the price.

Florence Ion: I agree.

Leo: Quality of the hardware and the ease of modding. 

Florence: If you’re looking for an affordable flagship and you’re sick of Samsung, I mean give this guy a try. 

Narrator: TWiT. Test drive one today.

Florence: So I’ve been watching phones now as they charge because I’m very curious.

Leo: Boy, that’s thrilling.

Florence: I’ve worked, listen, I’ve worked that into my work day, ok? I’m just going to sit there and watch it charge.

Leo: It’s a little faster than grass growing. 

Leo: That’s Florence Ion. She was great on New Screen Savers if you didn’t see that this week. We’ve got a big week ahead. Who has the week ahead this week? It’s Megan Morrone.

Megan Morrone: Thank you, Leo. Coming up this week there’s nothing quite so high profile as WWDC or E3 but we will look forward to some tech news coming out of RSA Asia, London Technology Week and VidCom in Anaheim, the place to meet and greet all your favorite YouTube stars unless of course your favorite YouTube star is Leo because he will not be there. And get ready to party like it’s 1999 because there’s a big tech IPO on the horizon. All eyes are on cloud communications company Twilio. San Francisco based Twilio claims to be changing communications forever by empowering software people to build the future of our modern communications apps. We will be watching to see what happens on Wall Street. And finally, perhaps the most important news to me is this week we’ll see the release of Unicode 9.0. That means new emoji including but not limited to, the lying face, the man dancing, bacon shrimp and the pregnant woman because what better way than to announce the good news then through an emoji. Actually there are a lot better ways to announce the good news. Please do not use an emoji. You can hear all this good news and more coming up this week on Tech News Today. 

Leo: I love it. Megan Morrone, thank you. Tech News Today Monday through Friday, 4:00 PM Pacific, 7:00 PM Eastern, 2300 UTC. No rifle emoji by the way in Unicode 9. 

Owen: I thought that was an I’m fat emoji but I guess it’s an I’m pregnant emoji so I can’t use that.

Leo: I don’t know. Let’s look at it. Wait a minute, let me just look. Remember that it’s in the Unicode in spec but then everybody’s going to make it look different, right? So yea, I don’t think you can use—well, you might be able to use this.

Owen: I thought that was I just had Thanksgiving dinner emoji.

Leo: I just played Gear VR. Yea, they apparently considered a rifle emoji and that was vetoed by a number of the players. A wilted flower? What would you use a wilted flower for?

Georgia: Sad. I’m sad.

Leo: My God that’s depressing. 

Devindra: That is the only emoji.

Leo: A flower that has died or has wilted to a lack of water, a petal falls.

Georgia: That’s how I felt when I wasn’t invited to WWDC (laughing).

Leo: Oh. Just me. How about this one? You might like this one. The heavy black heart. 

Georgia: Oh, I like that one.

Leo: Classic red heart emoji. Where’s the black part. Oh, Samsung makes a black. Everybody else is just a red heart. Why? I don’t know. What?

Devindra: We have hearts already, yea.

Leo: We already have hearts.

Georgia: I like the black heart though. That has a specific significance. That’s like you know—

Leo: This character is read on all platforms and displayed with emoji presentation not to be confused with the black heart emoji.

Devindra: What?

Leo: What the what? There’s a heavy black—oh, my God, are the crazy?

Georgia: That’s much more useful than the blue heart.

Leo: Now they’ve just got too many choices. This is the CupHead.

Devindra: It’s madness.

Leo: CupHead emoji. How about, this is the one I’m going to use from now on. Huh? Whatev. I don’t know. It’s the shrug.

Devindra: Oh, man.

Owen: I thought that was my brain’s too big for your table.

Devindra: That’s not as great as the shrug ASCII.

Leo: Isn’t the ASCII shrug better? Yea, I like the ASCCI shrug.

Devindra: The ASCII shrug is better.

Leo: Do you know how to type that?

Devindra: No, I just copy and paste.

Leo: Yea, me too. 

Owen: Apparently all you have to do is write in the word and click the button soon because Apple’s made everything easy.

Leo: It’s called emojification. Wow. 

Georgia: I’m going to do that every single tweet to you Owen is going to have that and then I’m going to have the confetti in the background.

Leo: I confess, I was very excited about emojification. 

Georgia: Where you?

Leo: Yea. Because you—but you type something. It’s the dad—by the way, this is all for dads and moms. This has nothing to do with kids. Young people go, “Oh, please. Stop sending me that crap.” But you can type a sentence, and then it will identify any word in the sentence that can be replaced with an emoji and then you one by one can say yes. So if you say, “I feel like a face with a cowboy hat.” There you go. It will just let you choose that. These are all the new emojis. The cowboy emoji. Who’s lobbying for this? The clown face.

Owen: Georgia Dow is lobbying for this.

Georgia: (Laughing). I’d have more like unicorns with like—yea, mine would be even crazier. You don’t want me, you don’t want me having any control over emoji.

Leo: The rifle and the modern pentathlon were the two that were removed. The modern pentathlon, we’re sad to say, will not be an emoji.

Georgia: I don’t even know if that existed.

Leo: Yea, it’s 5 different sports, riding, shooting, fencing, swimming and running. 

Georgia: Want to know someone who actually used that emoji.

Leo: The modern pentathlon. 

Georgia: I need to know.

Leo: I know you’ve all been waiting for Mother Christmas, aka Mrs. Claus. Yep, yep. The wife of—

Owen: Aren’t we supposed to be talking about E3? Can we get back to that?

Leo: Ok, sorry, I’m just having way too much fun looking at these new emoji. Deer, rhinoceros, Bat, Eagle.

Owen: I am anti-emoji.

Georgia: Are you anti-emoji? What?

Leo: No, he likes stickers. Are you into stickers?

Georgia: I’m sending a black hear to Owen. Owen’s going to get the black heart.

Leo: Black heart for Owen. 

Owen: The darkness spreads.

Leo: Come one, Owen, who doesn’t like the shallow pan of food emoji? I kid you not. It’s the paella, also known as paella or shallow pan of food.

Devindra: Yea. There you go.

Leo: Tasty.

Owen: These emojis are just about as useful as what I’m doing right now.

Leo: (Laughing) he’s brushing his bald head. Don’t you feel like—

Owen: That’s how useful these emojis are.

Leo: This is like the lobbying. These are like little, like the Paella Consortium. The Paella Foundation lobbied.

Georgia: You need a lobbyist.

Devindra: This, I mean to a certain degree though, this is sort of the new language for a lot of people or at least like our commuting with text.

Leo: Is it? I guess it would stop verbal.

Devindra: It’s great to see how it’s evolving.

Georgia: Everyone knows a pouty face. They know sadness. They know happiness. They know the black heart of Owen.

Leo: Ooo. That’s what we should call it.

Owen: First of all, first of all, there were many teachers that would tweet picture of kids putting in IDK and stuff in their writing. Now there’s going to be artists just drawing emojis. Like we’re destroying children’s lives.

Leo: No. No. I beg to differ.

Georgia: Language is evolving to a universal language.

Leo: I agree. I agree. And Trey Ratcliff is the one to tell me this a couple of years ago. He said, “We’re going to raise a generation that is about images.” And this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It does change how you think if you’re less verbal. Obviously everyone’s going to be verbal because we have to talk and write. But images are going to be once again a big part of our culture. And in pre-literate societies, if you go and see these beautiful stained glass windows in cathedrals all over Europe, that’s for a pre-literate society. Those are bible stories told in pictures. And he said, “We’re going to kind of come back to that.” And I don’t know if that is bad thing.

Devindra: It might be a good thing. But I’m sure Wittgenstein is like rolling in his grave, but yea.

Leo: Why would Wittgenstein be—did you just throw that in to show off?

Devindra: Yea, yea.

Leo: Philosophy degree. 

Devindra: Philosophy of language.

Georgia: It’s the philosophy of language. I like that.

Devindra: I don’t remember much from my philosophy studies because most of it is just like not, not that super interesting or relevant but the whole idea behind Wittgenstein is he was all about language evolving and kind of conforming to the way people use it. So it’s sort of like the GIF and GIF debate, right? Like the fact that we all basically started calling it GIF, even though the creator wants it to be GIF doesn’t matter. It’s GIF because that’s what we have called it.

Leo: It is GIF. Because that’s right.

Georgia: That’s how we use it, yea.

Devindra: It’s right.

Georgia: It’s right.

Devindra: That’s how we’re using it. And it’s interesting to see how emojis are going in, or kind of evolving on their own and others conforming to how we’re using them right now.

Leo: As you said, Wittgenstein must be rolling in his grave.

Owen: The last two minute and 30 seconds just cost $30,000 dollars towards education. So kudos to you.

Leo: (Laughing) oh, the black heart. The black heart of Owen J.J. Stone, my friends.

Georgia: There we go. There we go.

Owen: First of all, I could make you feel really guilty because if I have black heart—

Georgia: It saves me a thousand words to be able to use you know, a bit emoji to say—

Leo: But it’s also nuanced. It’s more nuanced, right? It’s not just—words are very concrete, relatively concrete.

Georgia: It’s so much more fun. Let’s just be straight. I do it because it’s fun. Like I have to search—now, before emoji had like you could actually type in what kind of feeling you want or I have to search through the emoji for an hour. I’ll search through the emoji for like finding the right one because that brings me joy. And in the end, that’s a great way to deal with my emotions.

Leo: Well you don’t have to do that anymore.

Georgia: Not cold, un-intonated text.

Leo: You get the red heart.

Georgia: See? See Owen?

Owen: Is this not working? Is it not working? I have this remote. I’m trying to change the channel. I want to talk about Microsoft and something useful. Can we please?

Leo: Let me do an ad before.

Georgia: I’ve blocked it with my pink MacBook.

Leo: Oh, Lord.

Owen: Add it up and give me out of these emojis.

Leo: Taking a break. We’ll come back and Owen will get to talk about the Xbox One S.

Owen: Scorpion Morpheus XPS 98,000.

Leo: The Scorpio. Our show today brought to you by Gazelle. You know, one thing you learn from these shows is you know, it’s time to get a new device, a new gadget, a new gizmo and the best place to go to trade in the old gadgets, gizmos is Gazelle. They’ll give you cash for your old iPhone, your old Galaxy phone, your old tablet whether it’s from Microsoft or Google or Samsung or Apple. They even buy broken iPhones, broken iPads and give you cash on the barrelhead. The best part is you can go and get a quote right now that locks them in. It doesn’t lock you in, but it locks them in for 30 days. You have 30 days to decide whether you want to take that quote, shop it around or maybe keep the old device. The best thing is not to throw it in a drawer and just let it gather dust. You wouldn’t do that with a hundred-dollar bill. Why would you do that with your old phone or your old tablet? Go to Get a quote on your old device. Get as many of them as you can together. When it’s time to sell, they’ll send you a box, pre-paid so you don’t have to pay the postage. If you forget to remove the data, they’ll do it for you. And then they’ll send you either a check or PayPal credit if you’re in a hurry or and this is my recommendation, get the Amazon gift card if you buy a lot of stuff on Amazon because they bump that up by 5%, a little thank you from Gazelle. They also sell. Now this is new. So they take the best stuff that people sell to them and then sell it back to you at a great price. Every device that Gazelle sells, and they’re limited just to iPhones, iPads and Samsung Galaxy phones. Each of them fully inspected, backed by a 30-day return policy. No carrier contract but they will of course work on all the major carriers. Go to and buy as well as sell. They do offer financing from Affirm so you can pay in 3, 6 or 12 months. Just check the box that says, “Financing with Affirm” at checkout and it’s really quick. Just boom. You can also get warranties now, 12-month warranties for cell phones and iPads powered by Assurant Solutions. It covers water damage, cracked screens, hardware defects and more. Gazelle. It’s an all in one to buy and to sell. G-A-Z-E-L-L-E, Give new live to used electronics. Trade in for cash or buy certified pre-owned at Owen J.J. Stone is here. OhDoctah, Is it doing it? Is it doing it?

Owen: Man, there is a great podcast interview show with me and Georgia on there where you can learn all the secrets of Georgia Dow, possibly even her legitimate name. I’m not saying—

Leo: Wait a minute, you interviewed Georgia Dow on IQMZ? 

Owen: Oh, yea, and it’s not, you don’t even know. Like she’s using a false name.

Leo: What? That’s not her real name?

Owen: That’s not her real name.

Leo: Her real name’s Carolina isn’t it? Is it Carolina?

Owen: Wait until you find out what her real name is. I’ll tell you what.

Leo: Is it Mississippi?

Owen: Oh, you close. You are at the southern border.

Georgia: Closer than you know.

Leo: Is it Louisiana? 

Devindra: That’s a great name.

Owen: Oh, you are so—

Leo: Oh, I know what it is. Florida.

Owen: You are so close.

Leo: Florida Dow.

Owen: You’ve got to listen to find out because apparently she revealed it to be my accident. I tricked her into giving me something. I didn’t mean to.

Leo: Do you use—is this DocTales? Is that the one?

Owen: Yea, it’s DocTales.

Leo: The Secret Life of Georgia Who? Nice.

Owen: Georgia who, that’s right, you’re going to find out.

Leo: I feel like I’ve got a little something started here. Like I could take responsibility.

Owen: Oh, I’m trying to con Georgia into doing a show with me so we can just replace you when you don’t leave an inheritance because—

Leo: You better not. She’s mine. I’ll fight you.

Owen: Yea, I’m working the back channels. We’re DMing all the time. I’m trying to make it happen.

Leo: Has she sent you any emojis?

Owen: She sends me bitmojis. I am so--

Georgia: Wait, wait. Bitmojis.

Owen: These emojis are messed up. I was so happy. Bitmoji me.

Leo: Bitmojis are messed up.

Georgia: You’ve got it.

Leo: They’re messed up.

Georgia: It is a good thing. You don’t have a bitmoji?

Leo: I do.

Georgia: Ok, that’s all that matters.

Leo: I do. I downloaded the program that do it.

Georgia: Devindra, do you have a bitmoji?

Devindra: I do not.

Leo: No. He doesn’t seem that curious.

Owen: He’s a good man.

Devindra: I prefer GIFs to emojis but I understand the emoji.

Leo: I’m an animated GIF guy.

Georgia: Oh, I like that. That’s cute.

Devindra: I’m a GIF-er.

Leo: That’s me. Doesn’t that look like me except for soulful eyes?

Georgia: That does look like you.

Leo: Yea, I feel like I should say, “Hey, girl.”

Owen: That looks like 28-year-old you.

Leo: Ok, shut up. They don’t have old emojis. They don’t have old bit-emojis.

Owen: I need to update this emoji.

Leo: I want you to know, they don’t have old bit-emojis.

Owen: We’re going to make one. Internet, get on that. Make Uncle Leo old Uncle Leo bitemoji.

Leo: Next on Matlock. So that’s and DocTales which is a great name for a podcast, isn’t it? I see you’ve just started this. This is good.

Owen: Yea. I do a sports show. I do a tech show kind of. I’m trying to talk Georgia into doing because it make it better if she’s on there because everybody loves her.

Leo: By the way, you look great with Donald Trump hair.

Owen: (Laughing).

Leo: That’s not you.

Owen: That’s Kanye West.

Leo: Oh, it’s Kanye. How do you say that? Connie?

Owen: Kanye.

Leo: Kanye.

Owen: Yea, you almost made me mess it up.

Leo: (Laughing).

Georgia: (Laughing).

Owen: I’m going to start calling him Kanye.

Leo: Kanye. 

Owen: Oh, can we, oh, E3, I want to talk about this dadgum Xbox and such.

Leo: Dadgum Xbox coming up. Well I was just going to say Georgia Dow’s also here. Some may know her as Mississippi Dow. She is the, she is the person behind a fabulous site, Anxiety Videos, where it’s not just anxiety, it’s sleep. It’s depression.

Georgia: Sleep, parenting. We’re going to be doing boundaries and consequences, relationship issues.

Leo: Oh, you need to listen to that, Owen. Boundaries and consequences.

Owen: I don’t understand or comprehend or agree or—

Leo: You know what I’m saying? Boundaries and consequences, Owen.

Owen: Nope.

Leo: Nope.

Owen: Nope.

Leo: No one got no time for that, for boundaries and consequences.

Owen: Nope.

Leo: Nope.

Owen: This is America.

Leo: What is it,


Leo: Videos. That’s it, videos. And as long as we’re plugging away, Devindra Hardawar’s at Engadget. What are you working on? What’s your—oh, let’s not forget /Film.

Devindra: And /Film. I do the /Film podcast at

Leo: Love /Film. 

Devindra: Thanks. It’s great.

Leo: What, I’m just going to look and see the most recent—oh, sad. We should mention Anton Yelchin, who plays, who wonderfully played Checkov, young guy. Was only 27, right, years old?

Devindra: So sad. Yea.

Leo: Died yesterday or today. He was killed on Sunday morning in a car crash. His car rolled over him or something. It was not good.

Georgia: It pinned him, yea.

Leo: It pinned him. So he was so good in the new, in the reboot, the Star Trek reboots. It’s very sad. Very sad. But that’s not what, that’s not all that /Film was about. You also have great podcasts about movies and what movie, what summer blockbuster are you most excited about, Devindra? Finding Dory. Oh, we lost him (laughing).

Georgia: I’m excited about Finding Dory.

Leo: Well you’ve got little kids. You’ve got to go see that.

Georgia: No, it’s not about the kids. That’s about me. I can’t wait. The octopus character, he looks adorable, funny, sassy.

Owen: Hold on a second. Where’s my thing at? Leah just went and saw it yesterday.

Leo: Did she? Did she like it?

Owen: Hold on. Hold on.

Georgia: And?

Leo: Oh, you muted yourself so you wouldn’t—

Owen: I did because I shrieked.

Leo: Leah, get down here right now.

Owen: No, we’ve got the system. I say her name. If I don’t say anything else, she shows up in front of me. If I need her to do something when I shout, then I tell her to do it.

Leo: Oh, that’s nice.

Owen: If I don’t say anything then she comes. We have a two-level system.

Leo: So you’ve got it all figured out.

Georgia: Love it.

Owen: Dude, we can watch R-rated movies together. If I touch her knee, she closes her eyes. If I touch her hand, she covers her ears and her eyes. And then I tap her when she can open her eyes again, so we can watch some things together like Deadpool.

Georgia: I love it.

Leo: I just jump up—there she is! It worked! My God, it was like saying, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice and boom.

Georgia: You’ve got to give like candy and phones for a second.

Leo: Yea.

Owen: Leah, now talk into that. Did you like it?

Leah Stone: Yes.

Owen: What did you like about it?

Leah: I liked that she at least found her parents.

Leo: Oh, spoiler.

Georgia: Now who’s your favorite character?

Owen: What didn’t you like about it?

Leah: I didn’t like how everybody was starting to get upset and everybody was annoying and they were just, “No, blah, blah, blah.”

Leo: I hate it when that happens. That’s kind of a SpongeBob thing where they all yell at each other.

Owen: That’s what I wanted to say. She was annoyed at the movie. She’s like, “Everybody in the movie’s so annoying.” I’m like, “Oh, you might be getting a little too old for cartoon movies because.” Like she loves Zootopia and she’s like, “It’s not like Zootopia.” And I’m like “Zootopia’s like a great—“

Leo: Did I see Zootopia?

Owen: Oh, you haven’t seen Zootopia?

Leo: No, because it’s animated and I’m not sure if it’s a kid movie or not.

Owen: Zootopia is an adult full on societal great awesome movie. It hits 10 out of 10. Zootopia is amazing.

Georgia: Really? That good?

Leo: I’ll have to watch it tonight.

Owen: You haven’t seen Zootopia either?

Georgia: No. I thought, I don’t know, I don’t watch kids films because you know what, that doesn’t look like, it looks like one of the same moves that I’ve seen a thousand times already.

Leo: The trailer was bad.

Devindra: I don’t know. There was one trailer that was just like the joke at the DMV. That’s like prolonged.

Leo: That made me not want to see the movie. It’s like oh, God.

Devindra: The movie is great. I just heard the last bit of the conversation, but yea. 

Owen: It’s a great movie. It’s just societal, it’s about sexism, feminism, racism, it’s got all the isms. My favorite part of the movie that’s not in a trailer, I’m going to spoil it for you. You know, she’s trying to get the fox to do something. And the fox is like, “You’re a rabbit. I’m a fox. I’m smarter than you.” Basically like you’re a woman you can’t trick me into doing nothing.

Leo: Ah, interesting.

Owen: So I make all this money. I’m doing what I’m doing. She comes back the next day and she’s like, “Oh, well I couldn’t get you on a crime, but I got you on tax evasion.” He’s like, “What?” She’s like, “Well yesterday you told me about how much money you’ve been making since you were 13 and nobody could ever stop you, and I’m just wondering if you’ve paid taxes since you 13.”

Leo: Oh my God.

Owen: “Since you haven’t, you can either help me or I’m going to turn you into the IRS.” And I’m like, Ohhh. 

Leo: Neve mess with a woman.

Owen: No, you don’t mess with a woman especially when they talk about money. Lord knows.

Leo: So your daughter is—you missed, Devindra, the sweetest little girl. OhDoctah’s daughter did a movie review on Finding Dory.

Owen: She did not like it. That’s why she was struggling to say something nice.

Leo: She’s so adorable. And man is she a beauty. She’s gorgeous. She is really beautiful. So, that’s nice.

Owen: Thank you. Made her myself.

Leo: Proud daddy.

Owen: Oh, yea, definitely.

Leo: Proud, proud daddy.

Owen: Super-duper.

Leo: Xbox One. They announced the S Slim, 40% slimmer. More importantly, it know has built into it a Blu-Ray UHD player which means you can buy it instead of a standalone Blu-Ray UHD player if you have a 4K TV. Not 4K gaming though. That’s for next year. 

Owen: Yea. I’m going to buy that one. I’m waiting.

Devindra: And even that probably won’t be true for gaming.

Leo: It won’t? What are they going to do?

Devindra: Probably not. I mean it’s just judging from the hardware he had today, right, the GTX 1080 which is the most powerful video card on the market, even that can’t, it gets 4K at 30FPS. Some games might be closer to 50. It doesn’t quite get to 60.

Leo: That’s a lot of pixels to push.

Devindra: That’s a lot of pixels and honestly, I’ve said this before. Rendering in 4K is such a waste of computing power. Like I think if the next Xbox rendered at like 1440P or 2K or maybe some sort of lower resolution just like up-res it a little to 4K, nobody would tell the difference and it would still look good. It would still give it room to do a lot of great visual effects work. 

Leo: A guy called the radio show today and said, “What’s the best 4K 40” TV.” I said, 40”? Don’t get a 40” (laughing).

Devindra: You can buy it now, but yea.

Leo: Yea but it it’s that small, you don’t need 4K.

Devindra: You don’t need it.

Leo: Probably for gaming you don’t really need 4K yet.

Devindra: No, definitely not.

Owen: No. But I’m going to get that Xbox finally so now we can play games together, Uncle Leo. Because that, I want that.

Leo: I’m an Xbox One man. And guess what?

Owen: I know you are. I just couldn’t do it.

Leo: I’m going to get a PlayStation 4 because I want to do the PS4 VR. But now I’m starting to think maybe I shouldn’t.

Devindra: Wait on the PlayStation 4.

Leo: Really? Is that a bad idea? I played it. They brought it in for a demo on Triangulation a couple of weeks ago and I played that game where you’re driving down the highway and the Russian mob is trying to shoot you and you shoot them. And it was fun.

Owen: Did you get nauseous?

Leo: No. Not at all. And I sometimes too—there I am. Really looking like Yul Gibbons with my suspenders. That’s just pathetic.

Devindra: I would just wait a little to see what we hear about the slightly upgraded PlayStation 4. I don’t know if that’s going to be next year or holiday season, but yea, just wait.

Leo: And you think it needs that for the higher frame rate?

Devindra: It may and it may be some games may require it. I’m worried about what gaming will mean on the PS4 as it is right now. But just for your sake, in terms of like getting the best value in for consumers, right. You may want to wait before buying a PS4.

Leo: The device.

Georgia: But I don’t know if Leo actually cares about the value. He just wants to try it so he knows that he has—like he has his vault that he has to fill up again.

Leo: I got a Vive and an Oculus Rift and a Gear VR.

Owen: Devindra’s talking about regular consumers. He’s looking out for the masses.

Leo: Yea, and I think that’s good advice.

Georgia: Yea. For everyone else. But for Leo, he’s probably getting it now.

Leo: I’ve got to tell you, there’s 40 million PlayStation 4 owners and the price is right. It’s only a few hundred dollars. It’s the lowest cost VR, you know, option out there.

Owen: That’s going to get the market to boom from. So they better fix it. If there’s issues like that they better fix it because that’s where the market could explode and bring people in. Again, I’m not dedicating a room and I really don’t want to have a PC. I just don’t want to spend all that money on like 5 games. Maybe when there’s 20 games or 30 games or something with more options, maybe. But right now I’m not in a review lifestyle and I just want the PlayStation to work so I can enjoy the Lawnmower Man like the rest of you guys. But maybe not.

Devindra: It will be, I mean it probably won’t be until next year, the console VR will be really interesting. Like what Microsoft is talking about with Project Scorpio. Like it’s weird that they even confirmed that there’s a new, even more powerful Xbox coming next year.

Leo: That seems like a self-defeating thing to do because a lot of people will just wait.

Devindra: There were rumors, there were a ton of rumors. There were some leaks before E3. I think they just had to get it out and say, “Ok, the Xbox One S, this is here now. Next year we’ll have something better.” I also don’t know what that will mean for sales for the Xbox One S or even the Xbox One for this year but it will be interesting to see, yea. You’re going to need that horsepower for great VR. That’s the thing.

Owen: Let me lend this thought process to you. Maybe they’re taking the Apple approach. Because I have a lot of friends that said, “Oh, I’m just going to trade in my Xbox One and get the slimmer Xbox.” So maybe that mind set of hey, you’re putting out a new thing? If they offer VR you just say, ok, I’m going to trade in my Xbox One S and get that.

Leo: Gamers aren’t notorious for patience. 

Devindra: It’s not hard to sell an existing system. I think that’s maybe the best way to do it. But it will still have some impact on sales. People will just wait too.

Leo: Well especially if you already have an Xbox One. There’s not a huge, compelling reason to go to the Xbox One S.

Devindra: I mean the 4K Blu-Ray is kind of nice but whatever Sony ends up putting out will, like the PlayStation will probably have that as well because that’s Sony’s format, so yea, I’d expect them to do that.

Leo: But I do have to say, at $299 which is how much the least expensive Xbox One S is—

Devindra: The 500GB one.

Leo: The 500GB version, that is the least expensive UHD Blu-Ray player out there by far, by like a couple hundred bucks. So.

Owen: And that’s another way to get into the market with other things. They know what they’re doing. That carrot.

Leo: And that’s why I bought the Xbox 360 because I really wanted a HD DVD player. I’m so glad I have that now (laughing).

Devindra: Yea, that’s rough.

Owen: You bet on the wrong horse. That’s why I bet on PlayStation for so long because of the Blu-Ray.

Devindra: 4K Blu-Ray sounds like, who knows what we’ll access—

Leo: I don’t think it’s, it’s not like the HDR, HD DVD versus Blu-Ray. There’s two standards.

Devindra: It’s not like a war. It’s more like we don’t need it.

Leo: If you have a new set, if you have the super HD set.

Devindra: If you have a new set, yea. But even then if you have a new set, you probably have apps built into your TV that can stream in 4K.

Leo: But streaming’s never going to be as good as physical media.

Devindra: Probably not. Like definitely not. At the same time, like that is more than good enough. Like that is going to still be a leap ahead of maybe 1080p for some people which honestly you probably can’t even tell the difference between 1080P and 4K. So like it’s just the idea of 4K media as like a physical thing. I don’t know who that’s for. Especially with 4K being such a hard upgrade.

Owen: What do you mean I can’t tell the difference between 4K?

Georgia: It’s for guys. Guys love to say that they have bigger and better. That’s just the way that it kind of goes.

Leo: Yes, some of us do.

Devindra: It’s a numbers game, yea.

Owen: How are you going to tell me I can’t tell the difference?

Georgia: It’s numbers. People are like this is better than what you have. And so I think that numbers matter. I think that you know, again, we’ll end up, you know, it will end up coming out that people will really need it at some point in time.

Leo: The funny thing is—go ahead, Owen.

Owen: I can’t let you get away with saying that you can’t tell the difference between 1080p and 4K.

Devindra: Most people can’t.

Georgia: Unless you’re doing—yea, I don’t think I really, I don’t think that I really notice. And I don’t think I’d care if I did notice.

Owen: Because you’re a woman. You’re out of this. We just got done, you just got done saying—

Devindra: No, no let’s not do that.

Owen: She did it. I’m not being sexist. She just said that, that men want bigger, better.

Devindra: The thing is in terms of what you can actually see.

Leo: I can tell the difference.

Devindra: You’d have to be really up close to a really big screen to see that difference. And that’s not how you sit back and enjoy a movie. So by the time you’re on the couch and you’re relaxing in your normal position, your eyes aren’t seeing much more.

Leo: The other issue is of course the titles available which aren’t really very—I mean The Martian is available which would be good. The Amazing Spider Man.

Devindra: Sicaro. Chappie.

Leo: Chappie. Expendables 3. Hancock. Why did they bother making Hancock available? Pineapple Express. Well, thank God. I’ve been waiting for that. Salt.

Devindra: Sony has to start spitting them out.

Leo: The Revenant. You don’t want to see that bear in ultra-high def.

Owen: I want to feel the hairs on the bear’s back.

Leo: Oh, man, it was too real as it was. Deadpool I would buy. That came out already.

Devindra: But speaking between the difference between physical 4K Blu-Ray and streaming, like even streaming right now, you have many more options. That’s the other thing too, so. People don’t want to by another $300, $400 dollar box for this platform which you might see like negligible advantage over 4K streaming unless you don’t have a fast enough internet connection to handle it. That’s the only real reason I think.

Owen: Yea. I agree with you. I’m just saying, I can tell the difference. That’s all I’m just saying.

Devindra: I mean we don’t like to think we can tell the difference, but.

Owen: Just because you can’t and maybe it’s because you’re still wearing glasses and I’ve got Lasik but this ultra-vision, I’m seeing through the light.

Devindra: Lasik fades, Owen. Lasik fades away over time.

Owen: Yea I was a four-eyed goat. Yea, I did it. Oh, can I go back and get you a laser shot into my eye.

Leo: Georgia, they’re measuring, aren’t they?

Owen: What are you talking about?

Leo: Nothing. 

Owen: Hush up.

Leo: Nothing.

Owen: 4K.

Leo: Just Georgia and I talking.

Devindra: 4K. It’s a nice number.

Owen: As I’m joking with you, I don’t own a 4K TV because I haven’t bought into the hype yet, so just know that I’m just bluffing.

Georgia: There you go.

Leo: I can’t wait to get a 3D TV. I head that’s the next big thing.

Owen: All my TVs are 3D and I’ve used it one time the first week I bought the new TVs.

Leo: Yea, I’ve got the glasses. They’ve got a this inch thick of dust on the 3D glasses because I’ve never used them.

Owen: Are your glasses powered or not powered?

Leo: They’re all powered. They’re battery powered.

Owen: Ok. I have a LG TV with the non-powered ones that are better than the ones than are on my Samsung with power. And I was just like, ah, and I just gave up.

Leo: And we actually, we’re going to—I just wanted, I should announce now in the new studio, we thought about immersive video but we decided to make everything 3D from now one. So all of our video will be 3D. Look at that.

Owen: Are you being serious?

Georgia: (Laughing) I was going to ask, I was like—

Leo: That really. You guys just like.

Devindra: I can’t tell.

Owen: I would have made fun of you.

Leo: How do you like me now?

Owen: I just wanted to make sure.

Devindra: It’s so immersive.

Leo: I can’t wait. No, we’re not going to do that actually.

Devindra: I would like to see your VR camera though you know at some point.

Leo: No, we’ll do VR. In fact in the design of the studio we’re cognizant of the idea that at some point in the next year or so, everything will be 3—or some of the stuff we do will be 360 so we have to look good all the way around. Ooh, dang. Isaac Hays joining us now.

Owen: I had to put on my 3D glasses.

Leo: Who’s the man?

Georgia: By the way, here. You can see Leo now in 3D. I got him. Wait.

Leo: (Laughing). Wait a minute. Why do you have a cutout of me?

Owen: That’s actually, that’s what I’m going for.

Leo: Where’d that come from?

Owen: What’s going on?

Leo: That’s weird. What the what? Do you do little shows, little puppet shows? You’ve got Megan and Leo.

Georgia: So Megan did a, we did on one of the Tech News, we did like a make your own iPhone screen thing. Go to the dollar store and we made our own iPhone cases. And so I made a whole bunch of cases. My like fuzzy case. I had my little sprinkly case with all the little stones all over it. And then I ended up making my Leo and Megan case. So this was stuck on the back of my case for a while. There we go.

Leo: Did people ask you why do you have that strange couple on the back of your phone?

Georgia: I didn’t actually take it out into the wild so I can’t tell you (laughing).

Leo: Somebody made me this back when 3D was going to be the next big thing. They made me a 3D of me. That is really weird, huh?

Owen: First of all, that is very scary but also—

Devindra: What’s happening there?

Georgia: What’s in your—

Owen: It’s a microphone.

Leo: I think it’s very realistic. I don’t know why I’m eating the microphone. I think there was an error in the printer, the 3D printer had a problem.

Owen: It looks like Dexter. That’s how Dexter would kill you.

Georgia: Were they angry at you, Leo?

Leo: I don’t know why they chose this image of all the images they could make.

Devindra: Take that microphone and shove it.

Leo: Yea. It’s very realistic. That’s my profile except for the microphone in my mouth.

Georgia: That’s great except for the microphone part.

Leo: Yea.

Owen: Georgia, you’ve got to get rid of those voodoo dolls. I don’t know what you’re going to use them for.

Leo: (Laughing) stick a pin in this.

Owen: That’s not safe.

Leo: Anyway, October 13th you’ll get a chance. If you want it, now see I was all set, Devindra, to buy the PlayStation VR but now I’m thinking, no. I guess not.

Devindra: Let’s just wait and see.

Owen: There’s news that they might announce a new hardware. If they announced a new hardware—

Leo: The 4.5 version. Ok, ok.

Georgia: Yea, I agree with Devindra.

Leo: I have the Vive. I shouldn’t probably. I should probably just enjoy that a little more.

Devindra: They’re good.

Georgia: You have to play Battle Dome on the Vive.

Leo: Battle Dome? Now there’s another game. 

Georgia: You have to play Battle Dome. That’s like Halo versus Paintball.

Leo: Battle Dome.

Owen: You can’t trust Georgia because she like everything. She said yes to every single game. She’s onboard. She is drunk off the Kool-Aid. She is fully sauced and can’t be trusted.

Georgia: Not every game is good. No, I won’t say that every single game on it is good.

Leo: How often, how much time do you spend in your Vive?

Georgia: So I have spent more time gaming in the last 3 weeks than I have probably in the last 5 years.

Leo: Wow.

Owen: That means you’re not a gamer and I can’t trust you.

Leo: Oh, this is like—

Georgia: No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. I’m a gamer. I’m actually a gamer. I’m not like one of those false gamers that game. Like I game. I like MMO, game, Halo. I’ve in there. I really game.

Leo: This looks like a laser tag game kind of, not.

Georgia: It is like—it’s like paintball. It really is paintball.

Leo: Yea, that’s what you said.

Georgia: You go around on the floor. So it’s like Splatoon where you have to get the colored floor which you have to like take over to take over territories so that’s what you can travel to. And then you have to shoot the opposing team and then kill their core. It is, it doesn’t look beautiful, but it is a blast to play plus everyone else that you’re playing with, this is not with AI. You’re playing with other Vive players.

Leo: So it’s a MMO?

Georgia: You can talk to them. Not really. Like yea, you’re there with other people but this is more like Halo with like you’re actually battling each other.

Leo: Where are some of the other people are online. They’re not—

Georgia: They are, yea.

Leo: Oh, interesting.

Georgia: They’re all online and you see them.

Leo: I would like that actually.

Owen: But buy PlayStation Uncle Leo so you can play God of War and so we can play In Justice together and be friends.

Leo: Ok. I’m not a gamer. I’m like Georgia Dow. I’m a fake gamer. I like Minecraft. Do you want to play Minecraft?

Owen: Leah could play with you on Minecraft. She’s junked out. She’s cracked out in Minecraft.

Leo: I actually would love to play—I’ve played a little Minecraft VR because they have a Gear VR version of Minecraft.

Owen: Oh, man. If that happened, kids would just be—

Devindra: It’s happening. That is happening.

Leo: It does. You can do it. And you can move around and it’s—

Owen: That’s such a scary thing.

Leo: Yea, Michael, when my 13-year-old, I showed it to him, he was in it for an hour or two. He couldn’t stop.

Owen: You’d lose your children.

Devindra: Expect it to be a launch game for whatever VR Microsoft ties to the Scorpio thing next year.

Leo: You bet.

Devindra: It’s going to be a big deal.

Leo: Yea. Twitter invests in SoundCloud. SoundCloud I thought was almost on its last legs which is a shame because it’s a great service and I really love it. The Berlin company has been losing money like crazy, looking for people to keep it afloat. Twitter invested $70 million dollars as part of a round that should end up in the hundred-million-dollar range. Valuing SoundCloud at $700 million dollars. I hope we save SoundCloud because I think it’s really important. And I think actually it’s a nice match with Twitter to be honest.

Owen: I love SoundCloud.

Leo: Yea. I think a lot of artists have discovered that they can reach an audience on SoundCloud very effectively. In fact I looked at my 21-year-old, he spends a lot of time listening to SoundCloud of all things.

Devindra: I suppose I could see like some better SoundCloud integration in Twitter eventually.

Leo: Exactly.

Devindra: They have been pushing more and more media into tweets so that could be cool. As Twitter figures itself out still but yea.

Owen: I was going to say, Twitter’s got its own work to do on itself.

Leo: Here’s the exciting secret sauce. Twitter’s now going to allow advertisers to target users based on emojis.

Owen: My God.

Georgia: Oh, no.

Devindra: It starts.

Georgia: Oh, no.

Leo: It has begun. You’re not real happy, Owen. But I’m sorry, yea.

Georgia: He’ll be fine. He doesn’t use them He won’t be targeted for anything.

Leo: Advertisers—

Owen: You’re going to get me started because you’re going to tweet at me so you’d better hush our mouth.

Leo: They’re using as an example if you tweet a pizza emoji, now a pizza restaurant can come send you a little gift coupon for a delicious slice of deep dish. They’ll say, “Why look at that on the screen when you can actually be eating it?” Twitter says 110 billion emojis have been tweeted in the last two years. 110 billion.

Georgia: They don’t understand the way emojis are used because the idea of emoji, like I don’t use emojis because if I send a goat with a little gas symbol afterwards, that’s not because I like gaseous goats.

Leo: There’s an emoji for that?

Georgia: Well you put them together.

Leo: Oh, you put them together. You put the together with the goat.

Georgia: Yea.

Leo: Actually any emoji could have—ok, never mind.

Georgia: You could. Yes. But that’s not because I love goat emojis. Like Owen’s black heart, it’s not because I want then suddenly to be investing in—

Leo: Well that’s exactly right.

Georgia: So I think that it’s not the right way to target advertising.

Leo: Context is everything. They’ve got to do emotion analysis of what you’re doing with that emoji. You may hate pizza.

Georgia: I might be saying, yea exactly.

Leo: Well one more way targets can, advertising can misrepresent you and send the wrong message.

Devindra: They’re desperate for everything.

Leo: Just anything. Anything we can do.

Devindra: Throw them a bone.

Georgia: Throw them a bone. Fair enough.

Owen: Is it Dominos or someone you can tweet at them and the deliver you pizza? You can order it from a Tweet?

Leo: I met yesterday the guy that writes the Dominos app was here in the studio.

Devindra: Nice.

Leo: Yea. I think that’s pretty cool. I’m not a fan of Dominos’ pizza, but I didn’t tell him that, but they’ve been very digital first. You can order Dominos on your Amazon Echo, right?

Owen: Yep, they’ve got their little robot delivering pizzas. They’ve got the pizza delivery car.

Leo: I guess if your pizzas taste like crap you’ve got to have something to get people interested in it.

Georgia: Glad they’re not advertising.

Leo: Not now they aren’t. Never again.

Devindra: Pretty much the only choice in much of America.

Leo: What are you eating, there? What kind of pizza is that there?

Owen: This is, because see I’m all about local. This is some homegrown pizza.

Leo: Local’s always the best. You know, chain pizza is off the chain. That’s good.

Owen: There it is.

Georgia: That looks good.

Leo: That does look good. You’re making me hungry.

Georgia: I’m getting hungry after that.

Owen: Went to a pool party yesterday and they over ordered pizzas and they sent everybody home with pizzas.

Leo: God, that’s my dream. I have fantasies like that. Well, they over ordered pizzas. Please have one. Ah.

Owen: Literally they were shoving pizzas at people.

Leo: Better than sex.

Owen: I’m like I’m taking one. You don’t have to worry about it.

Georgia: See I like the oven, like the oven pizza where it’s like actually cooked.

Leo: Papa Murphy’s Take and Bake kind of thing. Yea, no.

Georgia: No, I like it like it’s just real wood fire.

Leo: Oh, you make your own.

Georgia: I don’t. I like to go to places though that they have like a real pizza oven for like, we see wood inside of it and it’s.

Leo: Excuse me, I’ve just been informed off the chain is good not bad. So whatever I was saying I take it back. It’s the opposite. I’m on the chain. Is that what you say? I’m on the chain. Is that what the kids say?

Owen: Lord, help me.

Leo: I’m on the chain. I’m on the chain. Our show today brought to you—(laughing). Our show today brought to you by Braintree, mobile app development. Tough. You’re doing Dominos, you’ve got enough problems getting that pizza and all the pictures and stuff. You don’t want to do, and you shouldn’t be doing the e-commerce built into it. No, no, no. That’s why you can use Braintree. It’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful thing. With Braintree you can accept every kind of payment on any kind of device. One easy integration. You get Apple Pay, Android Pay, PayPal, Bitcoin. Yea, you can Bitcoin if you want. And you get the control panel, lets you check the boxes you want. The thing is, your customers trust it. They’ve seen it before. It’s not like, you’re not leaving the app to do the e-commerce. 70% of mobile shopping carts are abandoned before they click pay. That’s not what you want. Braintree eliminates, eliminates that problem. So it’s easy for you to use. It’s a full stack payment solution. It’s secure. Great fraud protection. Your customers love it. They know it because they’ve used it. They’ve used it if you ever see the buyable pins from Pinterest. That’s Braintree. If you have ever taken an Uber or a Lyft, they use Braintree, both of them. Hotels Tonight, Airbnb, Braintree. GitHub uses Braintree. Simple secure payments. Code you can integrate in quickly. Android, iOS, Java script, .net, Node.js, Java, Pearl, PHP, Python, Ruby. It’s elegant code. You can integrate it with just a few lines. There’s no reason for you to write this from scratch. Go talk to the boss. If you’re the boss, you got it. You got it. And the boss will like this part. Your first $50,000 dollars of payments fee free. Braintree.

Leo: All right, a couple of leftover crusts. Just want to mention. Spam King Sanford Wallace. This guy has been spamming us for decades now. As an example, in 4 days over 3 user sessions from November 2008 – February 2009, he sent 27 million spam messages to more than half a million Facebook users. He’s been doing it since 1995. He’s been sued many times. Lost many judgements. In fact total damages assessed against King approach a billion dollars, but now he’s doing time. He’s going to do two and a half years of time. I think we all agree this is a good thing. This is a good thing. And by the way, not only is he going to have to undergo mental health treatment, 5 years of probation once he’s released, but he cannot own or use a computer without the permission of the court ever again. Wow.

Owen: Wait. I wonder where this court was. Where was this court at?

Leo: San Jose. US District Court.

Owen: Apparently out in California, they’re letting dudes get away with a lot of things with 6 months and present with probation, and this guy got two and a half years?

Leo: Yes. Yes

Owen: And 5 years’ probation? That’s literally disgusting.

Leo: Spam is worse than assault.

Owen: Apparently. That is embarrassing.

Leo: The problem for me isn’t the two-and-a-half years for the spam guy. It’s the 6 months for the other guy.

Owen: No, no, it’s the 6 months. And I try to say that to people when I complain about that because I’m like no, I want more time for him. I don’t want other criminals to get less time.

Leo: No, not less time for Spamford Wallace.

Owen: Yea.

Leo: Yea.

Owen: Five years, the psych eval is the big thing I guess. They think he’s crazy or whatnot. 

Leo: Well golly, he’s been doing it since 1995. I mean what kind of—Georgia, you’re a psychotherapist. What is the DSM3 say for somebody that’s been spamming for 30, 20 years?

Georgia: It would really all depend on why he spams.

Leo: Yea, maybe he likes the attention.

Georgia: Is he angry? Is it tension?

Leo: All right.

Georgia: So you’d have to go through it and you’d have to take a look at what type of spam he sends to people.

Leo: Or maybe he just likes to make money.

Georgia: Maybe he likes to—I don’t know. How is he making money out of this spam? Is it for like, you know, vacations or?

Leo: I’m sure he’s making a lot of money.

Georgia: Yea, so.

Leo: Lonelygirl15, what the hell is her damage? She’s back. This was the web series, remember 10 years ago, that everybody at first kind of fell for this.

Georgia: They thought it was real.

Leo: They thought it was real. They thought, this was in 2006. She was a YouTube user, Lonelygirl15. It was about a 16-year-old girl named Bree who was in her bedroom making faces and then the story got darker. She seemed like she might be in a cult. She was going to be doing a ceremony. Her parents went missing. She and her boyfriend went on the run. And pretty soon people started to figure out, wait a minute. This is an actress. This is fake. Well, I guess everybody knows it fake but it’s coming back. 

Owen: Why would you announce it? Why wouldn’t you just do some new fake thing, trick everybody and make it awesome?

Georgia: Because she wants the attention now that she’s announced it to go find out what is she about. So it’s again another attention grab all over again. Because people will. They’ll be linking down to her Facebook Page and taking a look at what photos she has.

Leo: I just want to point out one thing. Lonelygirl15 uses Linux. Ok, I’m just saying. Just pointing that out. It’s Ubuntu but I’ll forgiver her that.

Owen: And we’ve brought it back full circle.

Leo: Sudo ovaltine She’s sudo SU. She’s I don’t know what’s going on. This is some—am I watching the right video?

Owen: Linuxgirl15.

Leo: What the heck is going on here? Is this it? That’s her.

Georgia: There she is.

Lonelygirl15: can be a very frightening thing. And it’s ok to be afraid. When I was selected I was terrified.

Leo: Oh, it’s back to that cult thing.

Lonelygirl15: And my friends felt something would happen to me. Nothing happened to me.

Leo: It’s not quite the same now that she’s in her 30s.

Georgia: Also it’s not the same now that you know that the first part was all fake.

Owen: That was my point.

Leo: Yea. Should we—I mean on the one hand, it was a really interesting experiment in narrative, in fiction. I think it’s kind of inappropriate to pretend it’s real. But it was an effective, it worked. People were kind of sucked in.

Owen: Why was it inappropriate to pretend it’s real? Haven’t you watch Guardians of the Galaxy? I assumed that that was real.

Leo: Yea, but you know that’s fake.

Georgia: Guardians of the Galaxy, I might be breaking this to some people, but Guardians of the Galaxy actually is fake and everyone knows that.

Owen: Are you sure?

Leo: On the other end the Bachelorette pretends to be real. Is the Bachelorette real?

Owen: See?

Georgia: But for us to try to do people emotionally, it’s kind of like emotional extortion. Like you’re like you get fooled and think that something’s real and to find it’s not, it’s just and then people that do this usually have really complex psyches and needs for something for that attention as to why that they’re doing it. And that’s also probably really sad as well because it doesn’t go away. Because it’s one of those hard personality traits to get out of when you really want to get attention. And you’ll get it through this situation and then after when you lose it then you feel this horrible sadness because you’re not getting the attention that you need and crave for whatever reasons in your own childhood and relationships that you don’t have at on self.

Owen: Is that why women are still watching the Bachelor and the Bachelorette because I can’t understand how that’s still on TV.

Georgia: They’re living vicariously through the characters so they’re getting emotionally involved with the characters that are there. I don’t like the Bachelor but I have to say, sorry about that.

Leo: It’s ok.

Georgia: I have like doorbells and my schnauzer’s going crazy. She’s actually a shih tzu but anyways, so I understand. Like I’m emotionally invested in Game of Thrones. Is that any worse than you know, being emotionally invested in the Bachelor?

Owen: Yes. By the definition of what you just said, Game of Thrones is fake. I know that’s fake. The Bachelor and the Bachelorette tell me that 37 dudes love one woman and one woman can love 37 dudes until she gets down to the last 2 dudes, cries, gets the rose and then—

Leo: All reality TV is carefully curated to make it more emotional, more interesting. It’s definitely a hoax. But it does. I mean Survivor too, it promises, it acts as if no, this really happened. But some of it is even scripted. I mean it’s not—so that’s just as disingenuous I guess. 

Devindra: Some of those stories are told through editing, too, rather than how it actually happened.

Leo: A lot of it is. You don’t have to script it if you control the edit you’ve got everything you need.

Devindra: For sure. Like I don’t watch too many reality shows but Project Greenlight, the last season that was on was kind of incredible. I just like following that along. Even though I know that--

Georgia: What is that about?

Leo: Well you’re into movies, that’s why, right?

Devindra: Yea, it was so good.

Owen: It was good. It had a lot of personal, of personalities.

Devindra: Yea. There was great—

Leo: That’s interesting. I didn’t watch it. It’s about people trying to get greenlighted for their movie, right, or their—

Devindra: I haven’t really watched--yea. It’s basically that. Like an independent film maker gets the ability to make his movie and it kind of follows that journey. This season is a little different than some of the others and I think it says a lot about Hollywood and kind of like how, I don’t know, we’re approaching diversity and how we’re bad at it. And how Hollywood is really terrible about certain things. And yea, features one of the best, young producers out there now too.

Leo: I want to point out, a full moon is coming and with it the summer solstice. This is our last—that’s not it. That’s just a picture of the screen (laughing). You know what? Nice job, Bryan Burnett. That really looks like we’re looking out and that’s what you see. That my friends is Ubuntu.

Devindra: That’s how I look out my window.

Leo: Yea. In 24 hours it will be summer. This is our last show of the spring. I hope you enjoy. Apparently it’s going to be a heat wave in southern California. That’s why I’m headed down there. 108 degrees tomorrow. We’re going to do the Universal Studios (laughing). It’s going to be so much fun. I can’t wait. But I’ll be back in time for the show next week. Don’t you worry. I want to thank you all for being here. OhDoctah, Owen J.J. Stone, Happy Father’s day to you and thank you for sharing your beautiful daughter with us. She’s great.

Owen: Give me my 30 seconds. I usually go last when I tell people stuff.

Leo: That’s why you’re going first today.

Owen: So first of all, Happy Father’s day to me. I’m one of the greatest fathers that ever walked this planet and if you didn’t know it, I’m telling you so you can believe that. 

Leo: I do believe that.

Owen: Take it to the bank and tell your dad. Secondly, if you love anybody and you haven’t told them that, it’s 2016, the year of everybody passing away. Call them on the phone and tell them that you love them. Call your brother. Call your best friend. Call your semi-best friend. Call the neighbor and tell them that you love them because tomorrow is not promised. It’s a dangerous world that we live in.

Leo That’s true.

Owen: Terrorism aside, there’s car accidents, there’s people passing out. I mean too much pizza, I might have a heart attack right now. So tweet me and tell me that you love me and just know that I love you too and share that love throughout the world.

Leo: We would be so sad if this was your last show ever and I had to come on tomorrow and say, “I have some very sad news.” That would be terrible. Owen J.J. Stone was crushed by a pizza last night.

Devindra: By pizza, yea.

Owen: The best thing about my passing, Uncle Leo, is that I am a national treasure. And the day that I go, you will have another day off in your year.

Leo: (Laughing) I will. That’s right. OhDoctah Day.

Owen: So again, reaffirming, call somebody, tell them that you love them and do it. Oh, and you’ve got to find out Georgia’s real name if you listen to DocTales.

Leo: Yes,

Owen: You will find out the secret.

Georgia: Tell people to just forget.

Owen: Nobody forget. 

Leo: Kentucky Dow.

Owen: And then tweet her all the southern belle is so amazing. You will find out.

Leo: Wait a minute. So you implied that Mississippi was really close.

Owen: Oh, man, all the southern states. All of them.

Leo: All the southern states.

Owen: Wait until you see, Uncle Leo.

Leo: Wait a minute. It’s not Alabama Dow.

Owen: Wait ‘till you see.

Leo: Alabama!

Owen: It’s better than all those things. It is so awesome.

Leo: Tennessee Dow? She looks like a Tennessee. She does look like a Tennessee.

Owen: Oh, she should have never told me. I’m like the worst person to tell. She was like, “I’ve never actually admitted this to anyone.” And I’m like, “And you’re telling me?”

Leo: Not just telling you, on a—with a microphone and a podcast.

Owen: I give a false sense of security. I make everybody feel good when they’re hanging out with the sugar bear. Best dad in the world.

Leo: All right I know. It’s Mulva.

Georgia: (Laughing).

Devindra: (Laughing).

Leo: No?

Georgia: Right from the Seinfeld. Right from the Seinfeld episode.

Leo: Delores. Oh no, it’s got to be Virginia. It’s got to be Virginia.

Owen: Wait until you hear. I can’t wait.

Leo: Georgia. 

Owen: I can’t wait.

Leo: Chechnya.

Owen: Now everybody’s going to be listening. My numbers are going to spike through the roof. This is awesome.

Leo: Uzbekistan Dow.

Owen: Oh, it’s great.

Leo: All right. Thank you, OhDoctah. Always a thrill, a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here.

Owen: Thanks for having me.

Leo: Hotlanta Dow is at where she puts all those great videos up. You must check them out. Of course she writes regularly for Even takes some of the styling pictures of stacked up iPhones in rose gold.

Georgia: I do.

Leo: You should do a—you know what you should do is a virtual reality podcast.

Georgia: Well, now we have the VRHeads, so—

Leo: VRHeads?

Georgia: VRHeads is the virtual reality site that we have now.

Leo: Cool. Wow.

Georgia: So they have a podcast and if they need somebody else on it I’ll definitely talk about VR for a while as well just because, yea.

Leo: Awesome. Thank you for joining, thank you for joining us, Texas.

Georgia: (Laughing) ah, Owen.

Leo: Owen.

Owen: It’s so amazing. Like you know how like when somebody just like—ok, you have a lottery ticket and they tell you the number and it’s your number. I had so much joy in my heart when I was just like—

Leo: Georgia Mississippi Dow. 

Georgia: Not my smartest move.

Leo: And by the way, not many people know this, but Devindra’s real name is Sam.

Devindra: Yes. Very simple.

Leo: Devindra Hardawar. Great to have you, Senior Editor at Engadget Magazine. Anything exciting you—anything you want to warn us about coming down the pike that’s exciting, fresh hot new stuff?

Devindra: Coming down the pike? I feel like we just went through a big wave of reviews. WWDC, all of E3, like there’s just so much stuff. So we’re going to have some reviews maybe. Maybe some of the stuff we saw at Computex actually, some of those Asus ZenBook.

Leo: Oh, I like those. I love those.

Devindra: That thing looked cool. I felt that it was super, super light, just really thin. As light as the MacBook so that’s kind of exciting.

Leo: I also should point out that Google said that we would get the Google Play Store, the Android software in June on at least 3 Chromebooks including the Pixel and I’m waiting to see that. I wouldn’t be surprised if sometime this week that—

Devindra: It’s on one of them right now.

Leo: Is it out now?

Devindra: Yea, it’s on one laptop. I think it’s an Acer.

Leo: It’s weird that it’s not on the Pixel. You’d think it would be on there.

Devindra: Yea. So I could imagine they’re going to roll that out soon. But you know, everyone’s just sitting tight and waiting for the impending Apple announcements in the fall. Hopefully we can have a calm summer.

Leo: So we’re going to relax. Thank you all for being here. We had a great studio audience. You guys are fantastic. If you want to be in the studio audience, just email We’ll be glad to put a chair out for you. If you can’t be here in person, you can always watch us streaming live. Everything we do is streamed live at or And this particular show is Saturday afternoons, 3:00 PM Pacific, 6:00 PM Eastern time, 2200—Sundays. Did I say Saturday? I’m sorry. Sunday afternoon, 3:00 PM Pacific, 6:00 PM Eastern time, 2200 UTC. You can also get all the shows on demand. If you’re as confused as I am about when we do these things, no problem. Just go to and you’ll find all our shows. Or subscribe on your favorite podcatcher and you’ll be able to listen each and every week and I hope you will. Thank you for joining us and we’ll see you next time! Another TWiT is in the can. Bye-bye, everybody.



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