This Week in Tech 511 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It's time for TWiT: This Week in Tech! We've got a lot to talk about. Owen JJ Stone, Ohdoctah is here, along with Jason Hiner from Tech Republic, Jason Snell from Six Colors, and all the Tech news. Stay tuned, TWiT is next!

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Leo: This is TWiT, This Week in Tech, episode 511, recorded May 24, 2015.

Reverse Hockey Puck

This Week in Tech is brought to you by Harry's: for guys who want a great shave experience for a fraction of what you're paying now, go to and get $5 off your first purchase by entering the code TWIT5 when you check out. And by Start using your time more effectively with Use to buy and print real US postage the instant you need it, right from your desk. To get our special offer, go to now. Click on the microphone and enter TWIT. That's, use the offer code TWIT. And by FreshBooks: The simple cloud accounting and invoicing solution that helps millions of entrepreneurs and small business owners save time billing and get paid faster. Join over 5 million users running their business with ease. Try it for free at And by Sign up for the platinum plan and get two free books. Go to, and don't forget to follow Audible on Twitter, user ID audible_com. It's time for TWiT: This Week in Tech, the show where we get to do all the Tech News. It's our Memorial Day Weekend show, so I want to thank all the people who are here because they gave up their lives to be here. Jason Snell, we have you from

Jason S: Happy to be back.

Leo: Are you having a barbecue or anything going on?

Jason S: Not this weekend.

Leo: We're glad you're here. Owen JJ Stone is here. We're glad he gave up a pool party full of beautiful women.

Owen JJ Stone: I am here under protest and duress, and if you're seeing this transmission, call 9-1-1. I need assistance.

Leo: You can blame Christina Warren, because she was booked and she bailed last minute. She's probably at that pool party right now.

Owen: Right? Living the dream. Living my dream.

Leo: I'm very grateful, Owen. Thank you so much for being here. Careful. Are you wearing pants? It almost--

Owen: Almost. It was a gut check. Just made it.

Leo: I just learned his last appearance it got darker and darker, and people were saying, "turn on a light!" He told us he couldn't get up because he wasn't wearing pants.

Owen: I'm currently not wearing pants. Let it be known that any time I'm on TWiT, I'm not wearing pants.

Leo: Oh lord. OK. TMI.

Owen: People died for our freedoms. I have the freedom to not wear pants in my own home.

Leo: Very appropriate. Go commando on Memorial Day. Jason Hiner is also here. It's great to have you from CBS Interactive with Tech Republic in beautiful Louisville.

Jason H: Louisville, Kentucky. Yes.

Leo: Did you go to the Derby?

Jason H: I did not go to the Derby. You have to be a millionaire. I'm not that much of a High Roller. I know I tell this story all the time. We used to have a box at the derby, during the dot com era.

Leo: Ziff Davis did, yeah.

Jason H: Tech Republic did, before we got bought by C Net. We had a box on millionaire's row. One of the best boxes on millionaire's row. We were dot com, phenom at that point.

Leo: You still can get a good slice of Derby pie in town.

Jason H: I can still get a piece of Derby Pie on my home street. Yes.

Leo: It's nice to have you all. A salute to all our men and women in the armed forces who risk their lives for us every day, especially to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice on this Memorial Day Weekend. We are very grateful to you all. I wore my American flag tie. Twice a year I get to break this out. Rosh Shoshona... no. On Fourth of July and Memorial Day. As long as we're talking on solemn notes, a very surprising and sad story. You may remember A Beautiful Mind. Do you remember that? It's the story of mathematician John Nash, who was schizophrenic. He was also a brilliant mathematician. He and his wife were killed in a crash on the Jersey turnpike yesterday. They were in a cab coming home from Norway. He had just given a talk in Norway. They weren't wearing seatbelts, and they were thrown from the cab when it got in a wreck. Both passed away. Nash was 86. His wife was 82. Nash was very famous for many things, but particularly won the Nobel Prize for his Game Theory work. In fact, there was a good article... let me see if I can find it... talking about what he came up with. The idea that even in complex games, equilibrium would often be reached. For example, they give the detente that was reached between the Soviet Union and the United States, because both had Nuclear Weapons and mutually assured destruction kept both from using them. Equilibrium was reached and war never did break out between the US and the Soviet Union, despite decades of tension. The other example that they give, "If I come home early and my wife gets home late, then I have to sit around waiting for her. If she gets home early and I'm late, she has to sit around waiting for me, so the equilibrium is that we both get home early, and we have time with each other." Anyway, John Nash. It's very sad.

Owen: You need to wear your seat belt. The thing that was creepy about that, a mile from my house, and then another one on the highway, all around the same time. Three car accidents. All cars had someone ejected from the seat. The other two car crashes, the passenger was ejected and both of them died. You're in a cab; I guess you don't wear your seat belt.

Leo: I always buckle my seatbelt. I don't know why you assume that a cab is somehow going to be magically safer than driving your own car.

Owen: Especially if you're on a high way! If you're in the city and you're scooting about, it's not going to be that great, but if you're out in the highway doing 85 miles... just put a seatbelt on.

Leo: We should all watch "A Beautiful Mind" this week, which is a great movie. Russell Crow playing... it fell prey, as many movies about mathematicians do, to this notion that mathematicians are somehow magically... same thing happened in The Social Network. They're writing formulas on windows. Nash did the same thing. He wrote the formulas on windows. It comes to them as a great flash of revelation. Many mathematicians find that a little insulting. "No. I did some work. I figured that out." Anyway, I hate to begin on a sad note. Google IO coming up. We have a bunch of nice people in the studio visiting from GDG? The Google's Developer Groups. This is a group all over the world. This is a group from Spain. Nice to have you, welcome. They'll be going to Google IO on Thursday. We're down at the campus mountain. I was talking to Andrew, I said do you know anything that's happening at Google IO? He hid his face. I'm going to watch you carefully, Andrew, when we start speculating. Just tuck your ear if it's on track. If it's wrong, frown.

Jason H: Can we get a camera on him?

Leo: I know! This is rare that we actually get somebody in here. Could you get me my cardboard? I meant to get it when I was over there. It's on my desk. Last year... one of the reasons people love going to Google IO is that Google is pretty generous with Gear. Last year you got cardboard. It was a little disappointing. It was a flat piece of cardboard under the chair. Gina Trapani made this for me, because she was there last year. She folded it in the car on the way up. It turns out that this is one of the coolest things ever. This is Google cardboard. It's Google's virtual reality thing. You can go out and buy an Oculus Rift for a lot of money, or a Gear VR for a few hundred dollars. The Gear VR does the same thing that this does for nothing.

Jason H: It does a little more.

Leo: Does it?

Jason H: It does, actually. It's got extra sensors in it that help...

Leo: You can turn your head. You're right. Wait a minute; doesn't the phone do all that?

Jason H: The phone does most of the work. The Gear VR does some things that enhance the experience as it were. It's adding more power to the sensors. You know what's cool? They've also released this thing. They released this publically. You can make your own.

Leo: It's open-source design. Other people have made these. The company that makes those great wooden cases for iPads. Bamboo. You can buy nicer ones than cardboard. You can also print your own.

Jason H: The Savannah College of Art and Design does this cool thing. They send to all of their students that they're courting--they branded them Savannah College of Art and Design SCAD, they send these Google cardboard versions. You can download their app to your iPhone or Android and its got views of their campus, it's the coolest pitch for a school that I've ever seen. If I was deciding between multiple schools and I was a little bit forward looking and progressive, I would see this and be blown away.

Leo: This is inspired. You get in, and they say here's a virtual tour of the campus where you're going to go. You can put your phone in here. That's a great idea.

Jason H: Erin Carson from Tech Republic has been writing a lot on virtual reality, on the business applications of virtual reality beyond gaming for most of this year. She also did a great feature on can virtual reality mend its broken promise? It's been promised for 30 years that it's going to happen. Will it finally happen? We did a great long form piece on this--she did a great long form piece on this.

Leo: This is a good use for it. A virtual tour of your future home.

Jason H: Yep. Again, if I got this and I was a student and I was trying to decide between schools, this would be big.

Leo: Pretty low cost. There's one problem. Doesn't the student have to have an Android phone?

Jason H: Or iOS. It works on IOS too. IOS for Android, you download the app, and you plop your phone in the thing and you go to town.

Leo: That's a great marketing idea.

Jason Howell: Google actually did this themselves when they opened up their London store. They have an app that you can download for cardboard so you can do a virtual tour.

Leo: I'm still not completely behind VR, but there are some things where that's really cool. The nice thing about cardboard is it's not immersive. It's closer to a view master than immersive. Immersive is not a good idea, necessarily. I'm worried about putting a helmet on and losing touch with my surroundings. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I'm worried someone is going to sneak up behind me.

Owen: Three weeks ago, didn't I just yell at you? You were telling me how much you loved virtual reality and digital space-time?

Leo: That was somebody else.

Owen: At least you headed my warnings.

Leo: Palmer Lucky, who was the guy who founded Oculus Rift and then sold to Facebook for several billion... how many billions? 3. Something. He's being sued by his previous employer: the appropriately named Total Recall Technology. That is a good name for a VR company. They're in Hawaii. They say they hired Lucky to build a prototype in 2011, he worked for them for a year. He got feedback and information to improve the design and display. Left, and then launched a KickStarter campaign for his own display called the Oculus Rift. By the way, Oculus is a defendant as well.

Jason H: The Silicon Valley event was last week. It was interesting. Lucky is pretty prickly. He was on the panel. They were talking about these multiple uses. Kind of like the ones we were talking about. SCAD, other things. Medical, surgeons are using it so that you can learn how to do some of these things before you're messing with cadavers and stuff. All these things that are popping up all over the place right now. He was not bullish on that at all. For him it's all about gaming.

Leo: I think he's kind of right.

Jason H: It's people trying to justify where it's going.

Leo: He says it is gaming.

Jason H: He says it's just gaming. All these other things are wishful thinking.

Leo: I'm not sure I agree with that. I think gaming is the obvious and best use of virtual reality. The purpose of virtual reality is immersion, right?

Jason S: It's to block out the rest of the world.

Leo: Right. So for a game--

Jason S: For the AR stuff, what Microsoft is doing with Hololens is about annotating the actual world. That's a very different and interesting thing. VR is all about blocking out the world.

Leo: The SCAD thing is VR, right? I like the idea that you could tour somewhere and look around and be part of it. Oculus has an announcement in a couple of weeks. June 11, Step Into the Rift. I don't know if that's a good tagline. It sounds like I'm going to fall. Is this going to be the announcement of the commercial availability of something?

Jason H: The weird thing is that they're hyping this. They were hyping it last week too. It's not clear what they're doing. What more is there to say?

Leo: Ship it.

Jason H: Ship it. Right. They've already said most of the details for that, unless there's something else they're going to do, or the biggest thing that's missing is content. There has to be content you want to do, unless my thought is unless they're making some announcements in terms of content.

Leo: They've got to say the next "Call of Duty" is going to have an Oculus Rift version.

Owen: It's got to be something like that, because otherwise, what's the hype?

Leo: Why would I buy it? It's going to be expensive too, right? It can't be cheap.

Jason H: The SDK, the one that they've got out right now is $400 for the hardware that they're going to release to consumers or something similar to it. It's going to be in the 3-500 dollar range. It's not going to work with any of the gaming systems, it's not going to work with Xbox, and it’s not going to work with Sony PlayStation. It's only going to be for high-end PCs. They just threw off Mac. It worked really crappy on Mac as it were. It's really only for PC gamers.

Leo: They're saying no Linux, no Mac; you have to have a pretty high-end PC to power the Oculus Rift. That might be why Palmer Lucky is saying it's gaming. At this point, it is gaming. You're going to be buying it as a peripheral for a gaming PC.

Jason H: If you don't have a high-end gaming PC and you buy this thing, you're probably going to be disappointed. We got one and we tested it on seven different machines and couldn't get it to work until we started on a really high-end desktop PC. We tweaked it and tuned it and looked through forums to get it to work and to get it up to 75 frames per second, which is what you need to not puke every time you look at the thing. They've got a long way to go in six months before they release to the public. Right now, trying to use this thing is an exercise in frustration.

Leo: I've got a prediction, Owen JJ Stone. It's not going to be the Oculus Rift; it's going to be the Oculus Beats. It's going to be the tie-in with Beats headphones. It's going to have built-in Beats sound. What do you think? The sound is exquisite coming back from Owen JJ Stone.

Owen: There it is. I got you. Basically, do these people not talk to gamers? People that game... the reason that they own PCs is they want speed and access, so I'm going to put something on my face that's going to be janky and slow. Stop making it. Give up.

Leo: They got 2 billion dollars!

Owen: I don't care. People give people money all the time for stupid reasons. You made something only work for high-end PCs. The people who build and play their own games love the touch and feel of the mouse and the speed of the game. I'm not going to put something on my eyes to make me slow down. I don't think it's going to work. If that's the market you're marketing to, they've already spent all their money on their computer. They ain't got no money for an Oculus Rift.

Leo: That's not true. I see people who buy seats for driving games that move you around and they've got pedals and a steering wheel, so you're really driving on the Indie 500.

Owen: They spent all their money, Uncle Leo.

Leo: That was as real as they can get.

Jason S: I imagine they'll sell a lot of graphics cards. Possibly even systems that are saying they'll work with Oculus Rift. I imagine they'll do that. But that's going to be the first wave, right? It's people who are super high-end, they're willing to spend this money for fun. It's a long way to go from there to the mainstream. First off, it's only on PCs, not consoles, and you're going to have the heist backs. Maybe if it goes well, it trickles down, but they've got to have software announcements.

Leo: If Palmer Lucky is right, it's just for gaming, why Facebook? Facebook must have seen more than gaming in this thing? I think Farmville in a 3D world would be spectacular.

Jason S: If they feel this is foundational technology, this is the leader in something that's going to be big, is it that different than Google investing a lot of money in self-driving cars? Is that going to fit with what Google is doing with Surge? Maybe. Maybe not. If they feel like in 20 years, self-driving cars is going to be a thing, why wouldn't they own that? They've got the money to spend. I feel like that's what Facebook did. They've got the money to spend, and they feel like VR is going to be something probably, so why not buy the leader? See if you can use your money to push them.

Leo: You're right in one respect though. If you're a gamer, what do you want? You want two things. You want high resolution and a high frame rate. It's very likely that the Rift, the Consumer version may be as much as 2560 by 1440. That's hard to do with two screens.

Jason S: You're not just buying frame-rate and resolution, right? You're buying immersion. I think that's the argument for the Oculus is that it's giving you a different kind of immersion. You're not looking at a screen any more and it's working with your vision. I'm not sure I'd buy that. That would be the argument is this is all about high-resolution, higher frame rates. Something like Oculus are all trying to get you to a more immersive gaming experience.

Leo: The current versions are lower resolution, but I'm now seeing among gaming magazines is they think the consumer version will be that quad resolution. That would be impressive, if you can get the latency way down, frame rate up, at that resolution...

Owen: In a perfect world, it would probably be awesome. I would like to see it in a perfect world. Maybe I'm wrong. Even when you say something about Smart Cars, they don't want to drive. That sounds like something that's useful. I really would like to know what they think this is going to do. They must think this is going to change gaming. Someone sold them on, "This is the way we change the game" and after gaming, we're going to attack other things. Someone's been sold on we're changing the game.

Leo: What about the meta-verse? 3D social world that we can all go in. That's what I thought Facebook would want to do, is simulate a VR world.

Jason S: Do you think Mark Zuckerberg read Snow Crash and was like, "This is it!"

Leo: You're thinking of Second Life.

Owen: I know a lot of people who lost their families over Second Life, man. That was the original Catfish, boy.

Leo: I have a friend who is a Second Life photographer.

Owen: I know what you're saying. I have a buddy who makes clothes for Second Life.

Leo: He goes, so you have an Avatar in Second Life and you get it all dolled up, right? Then, apparently you can pose. He somehow gets screen-grabs of people in their second life attire posing, then he posts them on Facebook. It's very creepy.

Owen: America.

Jason H: America.

Leo: You can buy nude suits. You can costume your Avatar in any way. They sell nakedness, which is very strange. Your Avatar is clothed by default, but if you wish you can buy new clothings that look like you're naked.

Jason H: There are some interesting VR social things. There's this thing called "Converge." In the long-form article we did on VR, Converge is this virtual world. It's like Lord of the Rings. It's Lothlorian, and you show up in there. The cool thing is there's other people there hanging out, and you pick your character. It's a virtual meet-up space. You go in there and have a meet up. There's also a theatre, so you can go and someone can actually give a presentation in that theatre, and it will go up on the screen in this middle of the woods. They'll also watch YouTube videos together; they'll have screenings of movies in there. You can hang out. It's like a Mystery Science Theatre thing. It's interesting. There is something to it. I think this is why Facebook is into it. They talked about this at F8 a little bit. Facebook started out as Text updates, now it's photos. They see video and then they see VR. They see the evolution of status updates and those kind of things. I don't know if I buy that. Right now, Facebook is a drive-by thing. You can scan real quick and catch up on things with a lot of people.

Leo: They want you to stay there forever. They want you to live there. That would be one way to do that.

Owen: Now you're making me backtrack a little bit. I do think about all my friends who play Grand Theft Auto. I have the game, I played it for weeks and then I stopped because people were addicted to it. They have Hangouts. I guess there's something to getting immersed in that situation. Perfect World Tech. I need better stuff. Maybe that's what the announcement is going to be. They finally fixed the problem.

Leo: Somebody in our chatroom says, "You want an immersive Call of Duty? Enlist." Good point. Very realistic. Another tip from our chatroom, this is a game designed to work with Oculus Rift. It's specifically for it. If they make an announcement on the 11, this will be one of the things they show. This is pre-alpha gameplay footage captured with a VR headset. You can see on the web page that the fighter is wearing a VR headset. This looks a lot like those classic Star Raiders games. You're sitting in a cockpit.

Jason S: Eve Online.

Leo: This is their VR version of Valkyrie, they call it.

Owen: You know what would be a fun game? If I could just put that headset on, and have the screen that Tony Stark looks out, but I actually see my TV and do stuff, but stuff pops up on my screen, all right.

Leo: I want to be Iron Man.

Owen: Get me an Iron Man game, and I'm in.

Leo: This would be a better way to play. I feel like it would make me queasy. I get queasy on the early-edition Oculus Rift. I had the KickStarter version and I've tried the second version. I've been told that the new version is a higher resolution.

Jason H: The higher the quality the less likely you are to get queasy. The folks from HTC that are doing the new... they say on that one that nobody will get sick from it. They say the quality is so high. It's 75 FPS, and zero people will get sick from it. I think they're inviting ridicule, but that's how confident they are in the quality of what it's going to be.

Leo: I could see getting sucked into a game like this.

Jason S: That's the stuff that's going to be most exciting is the immersive stuff. World of Warcraft is a good example of that.

Leo: You can look around.

Jason S: You're not walking, you're flying a spaceship, so you don't deal with that other issue, which is you need to use controls to move. You can just look around; you're strapped into a chair, so it's a perfect analog for what you're actually doing.

Leo: Constrained environments make sense.

Jason H: I can go take down the death star, I would probably be in.

Leo: This looks pretty cool.

Jason S: We're changing our tune right here.

Jason H: Pretty compelling.

Owen: I already ordered mine. They give me a grand Chorizimo or something; I'm in there. I can live vicariously through my Rift. Enter the Rift.

Leo: When you said Gamers have spent all their money, what I was thinking, there's people playing Flight sims with surround bits.

Owen: Those people are broke now. That's my point.

Leo: They're broke, their wives left them long ago, but they don't know because the Macaroni and Cheese just sits there on the shelf. We're going to take a break. When we come back, I want to know what Google has got planned. We got this starting with the Cardboard, but what will they be talking about at Google IO on Thursday. Our coverage by the way will be live from Google IO. Jeff Jarvis will be there, and you're going Jason Howell, so Wednesday when we do This Week in Google, we'll do a preview, but then Thursday we're going to do live coverage. The Key Note begins 9:30 Pacific, 12:30 Eastern time. I will be doing TNT on Wednesday morning, and we will Segway right from that coverage to Gina Trapani, Ron Richards, Erin Newcomb, you I hope, and we'll do what we always do, which is watch the Keynote together and then comment on it. If you want to watch the raw keynote, you can do that instead. That's 9:30 Thursday, 10:30 Eastern. I will shave clean for that show, because I will shave with Harry's as I do every morning. If you are a shaver, you need to know about Harry's. Nobody likes to shave. Does anybody look forward to shaving in the morning? Harry's is going to make it as close as you can get to something that you want to do, because Harry's is fun, believe it or not. Start your day with a Harry's kit. You can get these very affordably. This is the Truman kit, which features four different colors, three blades. These are really good blades. I'll explain what makes these blades so special in a second. You also get either the foaming shave gel, which I really like to use something like Gillette Edge, which is similar, but this is better-- or you can get the Shave cream, which is what I use. That comes in a tube, and that gives you a nice shave. You also get a little protector for your shaving kit so when you travel around it lets the blade dry but you don't cut yourself. Normally 15 dollars, I'm going to get you 5 dollars off on your first order. When you go to, and use the offer code TWIT5 at checkout. Harry's is more than just the kit, though. Once you buy the kit, you're going to want to get the Harry's blades; you're going to want to buy the subscription. I used to get them over other month, now I get them every month, because I love having a fresh blade. It's part of the secret to Harry’s: because Harry's blades are half the price of drugstore blades and twice as good, you don't mind changing the blade more often. You get a better shave, a cleaner shave. While you're at the Harry's site, I know Father's day is coming next month; you might want to take a look for Dad. Get the Wynston set in Grave. That's a little bit more. $25. They have a special father's day set that would be great for $40 that includes your choice of the gel or the shave cream, the personalized razor and stand, plus all the blades. This is a nice gift for Father's day.

Owen: Is it bad if I get myself that for Father's Day?

Leo: No. Your daughter is too young to know what to get you.

Owen: I'm going to give it a whirl on the noggin and see how smooth I can get it.

Leo: For somebody who shaves their head, this is a really good idea. I've never shaved my head. I shaved it once, that was it. This would be a really good.... many of our viewers do this., don't forget the offer code TWIT5 at checkout to save $5 off your first purchase. I just got the stand, it's cool. The reason I like it is because Lisa keeps stealing my razor. Now I've got the stand that says, "keep your mitts off my Harry’s." They own their factories. That's why their blades are sharper, better, high performance blades. The very best at Are you going to Google IO? No? You're just going to watch from afar.

Jason H: I will watch the stream.

Leo: What are we expecting? There's a leak from Android police. We've heard this leak, but I think I'm starting to believe this. Google is going to do a new photos app that will basically take all the features Google Plus's photos out. The auto awesome, and make it stand-alone. If you're a Google plus fan, it might worry you a little bit, because that's one of the best features of Google Plus. In the App that they're going to put out, they call it the current app, because that's the one they're saying could change. Users can create movies, animations, collages, but the stories feature from Google Plus isn't there, nor is the Albums feature. It sounds like you can share back to Google Plus.

Jason H: If it doesn't let you share back to Google Plus, then that's the big news. I think it will.

Leo: This looks like the phone app. I don't see a tablet view on this one. The assistant will make it easy... Google already purchased Snapseed. The new version of Snap seed is easily the best app on IOS and Android right now. I love... do you use Snapseed?

Jason Howell: Google integrated a bunch of Snapseed features into your main camera app. If you go and edit an image, you'll see a lot of the same features from the old version of Snapseed, so maybe they'll do some sort of combining of the new stuff.

Leo: There's no reason that they're going to assume that they're going to take stuff out of Google Plus.

Jason Howell: They've been doing that. I don't think that means Google Plus goes away though. They've just unveiled a new feature not too long ago. They're obviously paying attention to it. Now they're just saying that photos can come in handy all over the place. The Bloomberg leak said posting images to Facebook and Twitter would also be a part of this new photo service. In Android you can kind of do that anyways. Maybe it's going to be a little bit more imbedded. These tools are good for other services as well.

Jason H: I think we're missing a good photo place to do photos to do now. Flickr has kind of died; Yahoo has done a few things with it. It's not, it's lagged for so long. 500 pixels is interesting, but it's more for professional photographers. There's not a good place for everybody who just wants to put their photos online in groups other than Facebook. Facebook is basically a photo-sharing site, but they don't have great photo tools or even basic photo tools for the average person. I want to put my photos up and I want to do a few albums, and I want a place to put my favorite stuff.

Owen: Instagram does that.

Jason: Yeah, but Instagram is only mobile too. It's not some place you can--I know most people are doing their photos mobile now.

Owen: If somebody is professional, they're not worried about Facebook anyway. They're going to use what they're going to use. Average people... I know a few people who only use Snapseed, Instagram, and Facebook for their pictures. This one girl doesn't even have a computer, but she sells pictures in her gallery locally, and she's taking pictures on her Samsung. How are you doing this with no camera? I can't afford a camera yet. That's off your phone? She's like, "Yeah. I use Snapseed, and I post it on Facebook." People buy her pictures. She does all that without a computer. I'm sitting here with a Mark 35D. I need to shut down Photoshop.

Leo: It turns out you need talent. I thought if I bought more gear, I would be a better photographer. It's very disappointing.

Jason H: Snapseed is amazing. Don't underestimate what you can do with Snapseed. It is the equivalent of Photoshop for mobile. It's the most powerful editing tool there is. There are things you can do to add to what it does. Snapseed is super powerful...

Leo: And it's free!

Jason H: It's free! Google bought it and made it free. It's on IOS and Android, it's equally strong on both platforms. You can do amazing things with that. I know a number of people who asked me about photos, how do you get the colors to pop like that? It's actually a little bit with Snapseed.

Leo: Snapseed makes it easy to turn up or down effects. You have a lot of control. This is a picture I just imported. You can then choose your filters. There's tools which allow you to do things like crop or rotate, spot repair, Vignette, and then there's filters. Here's the HDR. This let's you turn up or down HDR as you choose and get it just right. Some of the things you can choose. This is actually a great interface for a touch. Let's say I want to change saturation. I can turn that up or down. I really feel like they nailed it with this. These changes are all since Google bought them. This is not the stuff that Nick did. Do you think this is an opportunity because Apple has so badly fumbled iPhotos? The iPhotos to photos transition is a flop.

Jason H: I like photos. The problem is that photo storage is super expensive compared to all the other things out there. I feel like Apple has got their photo stuff together more than it ever has, but there's way more competition than there's every been before.

Leo: I feel like the transition was forced upon you if you went to the newest Maverick.

Jason H: In the latest version of Yosemite, what they did was they put photos in the dock. iPhoto is still there. They just felt like they were being pushed into it.

Leo: You don't feel like it's going to stay there for long.

Jason H: A lot of people, to be fair, are looking around for other options, rather than jumping into photos. Competition is really interesting. I hear from a lot of people who use the Dropbox app to update their phone.

Owen: I use Light room.

Leo: Mobile is radically becoming... pros like Erin are going to use Light Room and Desktop app, but most normal people, photos are taken on the phone, they want to modify them on the phone and share them from the phone.

Jason S: If you have a big camera, there are uploads for Mac and Windows that you attach the card and it uploads them to these services too.

Leo: I'm going to admit something. I have a fancy camera, and a fancy lens. My favorite picture I ever took in my life, I copied over to my phone, and used Snapseed to make it black and white. I thought, this is just quick and dirty, and I'll go back and use Lightroom to do it right, I never went back. It's my favorite image ever. It was done in Snapseed.

Owen: What's wrong with that? Uncle Leo, first of all. The best tech isn't always the best tech. The best tech is what works for you. There's people in third world countries with only a cell phone, and they get buy living the dream. I told you this girl is running laps around me. I have a backup 70 D. I'm stupid, I have to buy two of everything. I have a camera, I don't even use it. I said, "Here. I'll give it to you so you can learn." She said, "I don't even know what to do with that. There's no point." She won't. She wouldn't even take one for free. She said, "I'm just going to keep using my phone. " God bless you.

Leo: I'll show you the picture. This is my favorite picture ever of Lisa and her son. It was a color image, but the black and white, the smoothing I did, was all done in the phone. The picture was taken with an $8000 lens, but the phone.

Jason S: I set it up so when I was taking pictures with my SLR it would send them to my phone. My phone would do the syncing.

Leo: This is why I'm using my Android phone instead of an iPhone. I can use Sony to tap it. The AC 7, which I use. The NFC pairs it and copies all the photos to the phone. I use Snapseed to modify it, and then upload it to Flickr or Google Plus. I never went back. The fact is, a lot of times people are frustrated because they take so many pictures and they have to go to the computer and fix it. This was shot raw. Everything was done on the phone.

Owen: I'm horrible. I'm doing MacGyver moves. I take the SD card out and then send it to my phone. I'm a horrible person.

Leo: We'll watch to see what Google does. There's links haring built into the new apps which makes it very easy to share it with Google Plus and other social media. You obviously control privacy, which is very smart. Remove Geo location, stuff like that. I have a feeling that this will be... this is merely to get Google Plus Photo on the phone.

Owen: It's not an option.

Jason S: I don't think it means anything bad for Google Plus. It could be the glue that holds things together. I think having photos available some other place is good.

Leo: According to the information, Google is developing a new operating system for the Internet of Things called Brillo. That's not a great name. Maybe that's just a code name. It will be able to run on low powered devices with as few as 64/32 megabytes of ram. I remember when 8 megabytes was a lot on a PC. I guess 64/32 is minimum on modern stuff. Watch for that as well. You've got to figure this is Android based.

Jason Howell: That's my guess for this next IO. We're going to see a lot more around. A couple years ago it was Android at home. We never saw much. They have all these pieces falling into place, and now it's a matter of Google doing what it needs to integrate it. One assumption is that they're going to do a lower powered version of Android.

Leo: It appears to be separate from the upcoming release of Android M version. I don't know if it's related to Android. You've got to figure it's based on Android. They acquired Nest. They dropped Cam as well.

Jason S: Drop Cam was integrated into Nest. I wonder if they set a parallel track for stuff happening inside Nest.

Leo: Somebody called me on the radio show today and said, "I've been thinking these new Internet connected things like my Locks..." they both make locks. I don't know if they're Internet connected. "Do you think there's a security problem?" I said, "Yeah." The Internet of things is already a horrible mess in security. We did a piece, if you haven't heard it yet, listen to "Security Now" from this week. Steve was talking about these key list entry systems that you use on your cars. Nick Bilton was the first to bring our attention to this in a New York Times article. He said he was standing outside his door when he noticed kids one by one opening every car door down the street, getting in, ransacking, and leaving. These were all locked cars, including his own Prius. Everything now has keyless entry. When I walk up to my car, I touch the handle and the doors unlock. I get in, and I press a button. There's no ignition key. Steve explained how it works. Apparently, they are all vulnerable. There's a $17 amplifier you can buy on eBay. I might have mis-remembered this. I think you stand next to the car with this Amplifier. Then your accomplice gets in the door. The only security on Key FOBS is proximity. You have to be next to the car to get in. If you can amplify it with a 70-dollar amplifier, then anybody could just open the door. Let’s say you go to a fancy restaurant. Somebody notices that's a nice Aston Martin you have there. He watches, he follows him, sees where the car is, puts the Key FOB in that box. His accomplice stands next to the Box, and you get in the car and drive off. Most people are opening it and ransacking it, but the reason... if you drive off you can't stop it, right? As soon as you stop it, you can't start it again. So you drive it to the shop.

Owen: Locks are made for honest people.

Jason S: This is an old problem with new technology. You used to have a little metal thing you can stick down in the window and you can pop it open. Talk about bad security. Front door locks? There are tools that will unlock them. You can have a key that says Do Not Copy, guess what? They'll copy it. There was that app where you can actually take a picture of a key with a camera and make a key out of the picture.

Owen: I tell you what. I would rather someone break into my home car whatever digitally than bust my lock up so I have to pay $200 to get the lock fixed. Open the door, come in and meet my pit bulls, walk back out, go on about your way.

Leo: That made me think. I bet a Model T didn't have an ignition lock. You could have stolen somebody's model T. We did a little research, and there was an article on meta-filter form Popular Science. Turns out that ignition locks on cars didn't appear until 1949. Who was keeping people from stealing your horse? Nobody. It's only been since 1949 that you had the notion that you could lock a car. They didn't even have locks till 1949. Honesty began in 1949. Locks are just a societal indicator to please don't go in here.

Jason S: You're just trying to make it harder on people so they don't bother. That's what it is.

Leo: This is hard. If you have to go to eBay, you have to go next to the thing, it's too hard.

Jason H: Maybe it's location and a fingerprint scanner, maybe it's location and some cars have the pin on it.

Leo: It could be solved.

Owen: No matter how you solve it, somebody is going to break into it.

Leo: You could always smash the window.

Jason H: They can smash the window if they want. I think what Jason Snell was saying, you make it hard for somebody...

Jason S: I'll go to the next one.

Leo: It always cracks me up when I go to NYC and people have signs up saying there's no radio inside.

Jason H: See here.

Leo: Steal it from the next guy.

Owen: Only time somebody broke into my car, they stole my radar detector. Really? You broke in for a radar detector? Why would you do that to me? I'm about to get a new one. I was talking to the guys and they asked what happened to my old one. I told them somebody stole it. He's trying to talk me into getting one that's built into the frame so nobody will see it. That's quadruple the price, so I'm like, no. If somebody breaks into my car again, I will freak out. You can't steal a radio! Who steals radios anymore? But then some people steal airbags...

Leo: Stealing airbags? Yeah.

Owen: What? Wow. I did not know that airbags are good money. Apparently they are.

Leo: Android M, we will know more about that. Better fingerprint, this is ours. They call it their Google tracker 2014. What is M? It's going to be some desert. Meringue? Marshmallow? Marzipan? It won't be marzipan. I like marzipan. I'm the only one. Better finger print that's built into the operating system. Android Pay, Google hangouts gets smarter Google calendar. Makes your agenda for you. No thanks.

Jason Howell: This is all a lot of educated guessing coming from Ron Amadio.

Leo: You know Ron.

Jason Howell: He's probably going to be on This Week in Google.

Leo: He's making crap up here.

Jason Howell: He's reading the tealeaves. He's good at analyzing these things.

Leo: Has Chromecast lived up to its promise? How long has it been out? One year? Two years? I would have thought by now there would be a broader eco system, right?

Jason Howell: I feel like it's proven itself. I love it. I use it all the time. I'm a Google fanatic, so...

Leo: Me too. Go ahead, Jason.

Jason H: The best thing about Chromecast is where you can put it on a screen, especially in the office, and you can leave it on. You can pull news headlines and photos and all kinds of stuff. It's got the best sleep state of any device out there. It has that thing even if you're not connected; it has the little pin there where you can say this is what we do to cast something up to this device. I think it's a great shared screen, cord-cutting device that's out there. I love Apple TV too. Of all Apple products, I'm maybe the only person on earth, but I'm happiest with Apple TV. Anymore now, you could put those two devices on a TV and have an amazing experience with a lot of content and capabilities transferring things from mobile devices to your screen and all that. I think both of them are under-appreciated.

Owen: You're not alone, Jason.

Leo: You like it, Owen JJ Stone?

Owen: I have Apple TVs in every room. They got me.

Leo: They own you.

Jason H: It's solid.

Leo: That's because all your Dora the Explorer videos are on there.

Owen: You know why I like it? My daughter can use it and she doesn't have to ask me anything. It just works. It's easy. When she's on her iPad and she wants to beam something, vice versa, it just works. I like it.

Leo: We're going to add Chromecast to our web-based player. We got a new website, which will be rolling in about two weeks or something like that. It's ready. It's done. It's cooked. We're just doing a few behind the scenes wiring. We're going to use a new player. We're going to use JW player, which we've used before. That's the best player to use. We're paying for the next tier up that gives you Chrome cast support. If you're watching on the web, there should be another button you can watch on your big screen TV. Unfortunately, Jeff Needles did all the coding and he's gone. I don't know if we're going to be able to figure out how this works. I believe somebody will figure out. Do you know how to use JW player? Anybody?

Owen: What happened? I thought there was another Jay on the show.

Leo: Needles went to work for Meerkat because he became the number 5 Meerkat guy. It's him and Madonna. Naturally, they hired him.

Jason Howell: They tried to hire Madonna. That didn't go very far.

Leo: She wasn't interested in doing business for them. Google maps will be rolling out, and this is a fact, Google maps rolls out traffic alerts.

Jason Howell: I got this the other day. They've been integrating Ways into the map experience for a while. This is just a little bit more refinement in the Maps app. I love it.

Leo: You used to get warned. It'll take you extra time. Now, as you drive, it will say, "Re-route."

Jason Howell: I've had that pop upon me already. The way it happened before, it was a little bit easier for me to ignore or not see, or not hear. Now they've integrated a little bit better.

Leo: at least for a year, they put colors on the streets. Very useful.

Owen: It's a horrible product. Worst thing in the world. I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Leo: You hate Google maps?

Owen: I'm jealous of it. I wish I had an Android phone all the time. It's amazing. It works in my car now too. You can put that on my car screen instead of using the Hyundai nav, you can use that.

Leo: You're Hyundai has Android Play/car/whatever it's called?

Owen: Yeah. They promised me Apple connectivity, but that never happened. Android jumped in there and now they're promoting all Android stuff.

Leo: I have built in Nav. That all has to happen on the car, and the car doesn't have much of a processor. It makes more sense to use the Network.

Owen: Every time I take my car in for service we have to upgrade on maps. There has been times when the car doesn't know exactly. I don't want to listen to directions on the phone. I just want it to work on the screens I have.

Leo: You can call and get directions?

Owen: They've got On Star. I call them when the map doesn't come up. They tell me to make a right. Get off the phone, Lucy, I'm going to put the phone on my dashboard and keep it moving.

Leo: That has to be a job that's not long for this world.

Owen: It is. People are babies. They want someone to tell them what to do. Where's the best restaurant. I can't ask Siri. I want to ask you, a person.

Jason S: Then the person asks Siri. That's how that goes. Google maps on iPhone is pretty great. I have a problem with their coloring thing. If you're red/green color blind like some of us are, it's hard to tell if the traffic is good or bad. Apple does that part right where it's a dotted red line. It's much easier to see.

Leo: You're thinking accessibility. Is that better now?

Jason S: It depends. I've been mislead by Apple maps and Google maps. I've also had good experiences with both of them. I think in the San Francisco area here Apple maps is great. I her horror stories about other places. I think Apple has done a good job where its employees are.

Leo: In your backyard.

Jason S: That's where I live, so it's OK for me.

Leo: That does worry my a little bit with auto vehicles, if they're following Google maps and you drive off a bridge....

Owen: Why do you have to get all crazy? It's not going to bust a...

Leo: Did you red the story about the couple who drove off... they drove onto a long dis-used overpass because their GPS told them to. They drove through 20 signs that said stop.

Owen: If your GPS told you to jump off a bridge, would you? Apparently. Tone it down. That's rhetoric.

Leo: What's going to happen? What's the autonomous vehicle going to do?

Owen: It's going to stop because there's sensors on your car that tells you there's nothing there.

Leo: If I take one foot off my Segway it starts going around in circles because it doesn't know what to do.

Owen: My car right now has the lane departure, it has cruise control where it slows down and speeds up and it works adequate. It freaked me out for the first two weeks, but by that time, tech will be taken care of. You're not going to drive off a bridge, and if you do, your family will sue and you'll get paid a lot of money.

Leo: As long as there's something.

Jason H: There will be over-ride systems. The vehicle will have its own sensors.

Leo: I do confuse fictional TV shows with real life. I saw an actual news story about a couple who... who knows? We're going to take a break and come back with more. Jason Hiner is here. I've got to find out what the next chapter is in your book.

Jason H: We'll have to talk about it.

Leo: When we get back, we'll do that. Jason Hiner, find him on CBS interactive. Jason Snell is here. He's from Anything big going on in your world?

Jason S: Did that documentary thing.

Leo: Did you watch the last show?

Jason S: I did.

Leo: Did it live up to your expectations?

Jason S: It was good. It was not teary or anything like that. They did an amazing montage over Foo Fighters playing Everlong. They did this insane montage that their producers were putting together for like 6 months.

Leo: It was a lot of images. It went too fast. I couldn't see it.

Jason S: The next day a guy on Facebook posted an annotation with screenshots of every single thing and what all of them were shots of. That was pretty amazing. 

Leo: They knew somebody would do that.

Jason S: Yea, pretty cool. Thanks internet.

Leo: Listen to the Incomparable then, the farewell.

Jason S: Yeah, it was called Monkeycam and it was my farewell to Letterman.

Leo: #thankyoudave. Not named Jason, Owen J.J. Stone. He could be at a pool party right now with some beautiful women.

Owen: Picture me in a prism in Superman's world. I am under duress. I need an escape.

Leo: He does not want to be here.

Jason S: Guilty!

Owen: Somebody break this glass and send me off to another land. Please.

Leo: You have got another hour Owen.

Jason S: Kneel before J.J.

Owen: Somebody help me. Help me.

Jason H: Did you at least give the girls the link to the live show so that they can watch and marvel at you?

Leo: You are a superstar.

Owen: Here is the thing about nerddom, okay? I'm trying to seem cool, and again trying to explain that I am sitting on here with a very contrasting panel does not help me.

Leo: All you have got to say is that I'm going to go be on this TV thing and I will be back.

Owen: Look, they are getting drunk now. This is prep work for me. I had to sit here and be cute for 2 hours, but now I'm just going to be drunk. By the time I go back up everybody will see what happens.

Leo: That's odd. We will be back with more. Our show is brought to you...he's Why, why, why would you ever go to the Post Office when is in this world? It makes mailing and shipping easier, but it's more than just that. We often talk about going to print your own postage at your desk with either your computer or your printer, but it's more than just using your own computer and printer to buy and print US postage. There is the digital scale so you always have exactly the right postage. It helps you decide what the best class of mail is. It does all sorts of things. You even get discounts on packing insurance that you can't get at the Post Office. You can import addresses from all of your address books, use cost codes to track postage spending by customer, and get automatic address verification. You could not get better than this. It automatically prints out Certified Mail return receipts, international custom's forms, it will send an email to the Certified Mail recipient saying that your package is on the way, and the list just goes on and on. I want you to try it right now. If you visit, click that link in the upper right hand corner, the little microphone up there, and use TWIT as the offer code. We have a $110 bonus offer for you that includes the digital scale and up to $55 in free postage., if you don't see my face then turn back and do it again. Use the offer code TWIT. If you see Adam Corolla don't do it. Turn back and use TWIT as the offer code. If you see Chris Hardwick then turn back. Don't do it. Turn back. That's not the right offer code.

I'm nervous. I'm going to do The Nerdest next month. I'm going down to record the, he has big name celebrities on, I don't know what I'm going to do. Would you write some jokes for me?

Jason H: You are a big name celebrity.

Leo: Owen, you have got to write me some jokes.

Owen: Uncle Leo, I'm pretty sure once you get to talking for 15 minutes in an uncontrolled environment hilarity will ensue. I have faith in you.

Leo: You have got to give me some DWB jokes.

Owen: I will help you out.

Leo: That will go over well. 

Owen: People can't take jokes.

Leo: Jason, tell us about the next chapter. Who was the last person you did? It was Tom Merritt, right?

Jason H: Yeah, and then the one that we just released after Tom, chapter 5, was Veronica Belmont.

Leo: Ahhh.

Jason H: Yeah, excellent. So Veronica, who is so humble, you know, and so self-effacing, and who has done so many amazing things, has pretty much been primarily independent since she was in her mid-20's. Now she is kind of fully independent doing lots of different gigs and is in demand. She currently, as we talked about in the chapter, has about 5 different TV projects that she is kind of pitching or in talks about. 

Leo: She is doing a new show at Engadget, right?

Jason H: She is doing a new show at Engadget.

Leo: Ask Veronica, right?

Jason H: Yeah, Ask Veronica. That doesn't include the Engadget show. She writes, she can host, she's hilarious, and she's such a talent. One of the things that the book is really about is that the future of work is really a lot more entrepreneurial and people have to make work as much as find work and people offering you work. It's kind of a combination of all of those things. She's a perfect example of it. She's a perfect example of what we are talking about in the book and what we are hoping people get out of the book, which is ultimately figuring out ways to deal with the future when they may not have just the one full time job for a long time or they may have multiple gigs where they may have to kind of hustle and put a career together based on all kinds of different gigs, and different opportunities, and making opportunities as well as finding them. So, you know, Veronica is such an amazing person, and such a cool person, so she is great to talk to, and she's a great story teller in her own right. She kind of made it easy with this chapter. I hope everybody will read it. It will be available for free for a couple more weeks. We release each chapter as we done with them. We release them for free on the internet for a few weeks until the next chapter comes out. The book is available for preorder, the whole thing will be released in the second half of the year.

Leo: There is a picture from the Buzz Out Loud reunion with Molly, and Tom, and Veronica, and the tall guy Jason Howell.

Jason Howell: Yay, I made it. I made it in the book.

Leo: This is really cool. They are writing the book. The book will be a book that you can buy, but you can get, only one chapter at a time, the current chapter, at This is the 5th chapter, Veronica Belmont.

Jason H: You can give your input, your insights, and your feedback on what you think is influential or important about these folks, too, and the best comments, the best insights, we are going to publish at the end of each chapter in the final version of the book.

Leo: There she is with Ryan, her husband. We love Ryan Block, of course. I remember Ryan telling me, he said "I am in way over my head with Veronica because she is way over my pay grade, and I'm going to do everything that I can to keep her happy." They are an adorable couple and I am just really happy for both of them. Good, I will read this. I have already learned something. I didn't know that Veronica's mom was the marketing director at Calico, the toy company. That's cold.

Jason H: Yes. Her mom is awesome, too.

Leo: Yeah, it looks like you interviewed her. So that's great.

Jason H: We did. We did, yeah.


Jason H: And the next chapter, chapter 6 is really interesting, too.

Leo: Is it anybody that we know? It's all been somebody that we know.

Jason H: It has. We both work with the same kind of people, right, influential tech media kind of people.

Leo: It just shows that you have excellent taste.

Jason H: Thank you, thank you. And vice versa.

Leo: Thank you.

Jason H: All but a few are people going to be people you know. I would say all but 2 or 3 are people that the TWiT army will be very familiar with. The next one I would say the TWiT army would be familiar with, but maybe more tangentially. The next one will be very unique and special, too. They are like your kids now. I love all of them so much. So yeah.

Leo: Thanks a lot United States Senate. Well done. You remember that we mentioned that the House of Representatives had passed by a strong margin a bill scrapping the NSA's bulk collection of phone data? But of course, the way that it works as I remember from I'm just a bill on Capitol Hill, I believe that after the House passed it then the Senate must pass its version; and something to do with closure and super majorities they didn't. And then they went home for the Memorial Day Holiday. A little credit to Rand Paul, who filibustered to prevent the renewal of the Patriot Act. All of this kind of goes back to the Patriot Act, Section 215 of the Patriot Act allows for the mass...

Owen: Do we have a video of that?

Leo: Of what? Rand Paul?

Owen: When you look at that, it's just the most childish thing in the country. People don't understand, these politicians get tons of money from lobbyists. They don't care about you as an individual. All they care about is money and power, and it is just silly. Rand Paul is sitting there and he's like I object. The guys says January 5th I object, January 4th I object, January 3rd I object, January 2nd...

Leo: Don't hate the player, hate the game my friend.

Owen: Then the senator from New Mexico was like, well can I object this time so that it's not just Rand Paul is the only person saying I object? It's like they are playing a game, and it's with people's lives and information. They do it with everything. It's so insane, and it makes me upset, and I'm going to shut up now because I'm angry about it. Continues…

Leo: I may have misunderstood this, but I thought that the point is to keep the Patriot Act from being renewed. It expires June 1, right? So he wanted to put the vote off until the recess.

Owen: Yeah, he wanted to extend it.

Leo: To extend, right, because it has to be extended by vote. So good news, bad news, they did say, well forget that mass collection stuff, Section 215, but we still have some hope because they are going to come back and in just a few hours Mitch McConnell says that we are going to have like 3 hours on May 31st to extend the Patriot Act. He says, he is the leader of the Senate, that we should extend it to protect our security. I think a lot of us believe that the Patriot Act does nothing to protect our security but does a lot to infringe on our privacy.

Jason H: They recently admitted that. They recently admitted that. This week they admitted that no, I'm trying to pull it up here...

Leo: There has been no successful prosecution of a terrorist, no successful thwarting of a terrorist plot, but they are getting everything that they ever wanted about all of us. Just in case. The whole point of the mass collection of phone data is that they have got it, and now if down the road they want to investigate you, they've got it.

Jason H: Yeah, I mean it's just gotten so out of hand. So out of hand! So it's one of those things that it's time, right? It's time to peel it back.

Leo: I feel like in the United States there is at this point a sense that maybe the Patriot Act went too far. Nobody wants to be the person who didn't pass a bill and then there is a terrorist attack the next day, but I don't think that is the risk. I do feel like people feel like the NSA has gone way too far. 

Jason S: I think that the understanding these days is that a lot of provisions of the Patriot Act, the people who voted for the Patriot Act right after 911 weren't entirely aware of what was in there.

Leo: We were scared.

Jason S: Again, that is their job, but it happened so fast that I think that they complained that they didn't get a chance to really investigate everything that was in there. Of course in the years since then we have understood that the way that some of those provisions were written have been taken very broadly to do some things that at the time would we have signed up for that or not? Maybe if we were scared in the aftermath of the attack, but time has passed now. We've had 15 years, or 14 years to think about this, and it's interesting that some people are saying look, we just can't do a blanket revision of this. We need to talk about this stuff.

Leo: The ACLU said "The Senate is in gridlock but the tides are shifting. For the first time a majority of Senators took a stand..." It was 57 and they needed 60 votes. "Took a stand against simply rubber stamping the provisions of the Patriot Act that had been used to spy on Americans." It's not over. May 31st they come back.

Jason S: So much is intractable in our government right now because the parties just don't want to work together. What's fascinating about this is that it's not breaking down party lines. This is a fascinating world view thing where you have got people like Rand Paul saying that this is ridiculous and people like Diane Feinstein saying, no, no, we need all of these provisions in there. You've got things that are not attached to party lines.

Leo: She's a Democrat, he's a Republican.

Jason S: Exactly.

Leo: But he's a Libertarian Republican. He feels, quite rightly, that the government doesn't have the right to all of this. It's a mystery.

Jason S: I'm encouraged that they are debating it, honestly, because I had sort of given up hope on it.

Leo: We know, of course, that the 6th District Court had overturned the legality of Section 215 and the mass collection of phone records. That will be appealed. There are a lot of fronts where this is starting to...

Owen: This is why I live a ninja lifestyle. This is why my driver's license and stuff, I could show you my driver's license right now, it's got my address on it and all of that stuff.

Leo: If I were in the NSA could I look you up and figure out everything that you have been up to?

Owen: Could you find me? You would have to work to find me. My cell phone is not even in my name.

Leo: You don't think that the NSA could do it?

Owen: It's the NSA. I guess they could. They know everything.

Leo: Who are you afraid of? Is it Google or the NSA?

Owen: I'm just afraid that maybe I will mess up and maybe make a mistake someday and somebody will miss-choose me as another person.

Leo: You are afraid of a loan shark?

Owen: Look, people are arrested for the wrong things anymore, people are going to jail for no reason, bad stuff happens to people. I have been pulled over, on average, every 15 days since January 1st, and I don't know what is going on. I just have bad luck.

Leo: Well, you are DWP my friend.

Jason H: You've been pulled over 8 times in 2015?

Owen: 7 times. It's an average of every 15 days right now. Average.

Leo: It's because you are black. It's because you are an African American driving a Cadillac?

Owen: I've gotten 1 ticket out of those 7 times. Every other time I get let go with a warning. So basically they just wanted to stop me, run my stuff, and make sure that I wasn't a criminal. They ask questions that are so obvious. What is in the back? Cameras. What do you do? I'm a photographer. Do you have a weapon in your front seat? It's a plastic bow and arrow. It's pink and it belongs to my daughter. Where are you coming from? Where are you going? People say dumb stuff like just be rude. What am I going to say? Oh, I'm leaving from a drug deal on my way to another drug deal.

Leo: Don't say that.

Owen: It's really funny.

Leo: Is it possible that you are just a bad driver, Owen?

Owen: I'm an excellent driver, because if I was a bad driver I would be getting tickets every time. So if I'm getting warnings, and they are not even giving me written warnings.

Leo: What is the warning? Stop driving while African American? Is that the warning?

Owen: Okay, so one cop pulled me over, and this is actually the one cop that I will tell you is a cool cop. He pulled me over and I said what did you pull me over for? He said I pulled you over for tint. I had just bought my new iPhone, and he was like, oh is that the new iPhone? I was like yeah. He was like, what do you think about it? We talked about my iPhone for 5 minutes, walked back, ran my stuff, and came back with a written warning that said warning for tint, get your tint taken off of the window. Now all of these other cops that pulled me over, one cop said, I pulled you over for tint, and I didn't even have tint.

Leo: Tint is the classic one. In fact, our Director of Engineering, who has been driving around with tinted windows for several years, got pulled over and got a fix it ticket.

Owen: So I will just tell you a short story. I'm not talking about cops all of the time, but the last time I got pulled over, the cop pulled me over and I had been watching him follow me for 3 miles. He pulled me over, and he said, do you know why I pulled you over? I never answer that question. I said no sir, please tell me. He said, well you didn't use your blinker. I'm like you have been following me for the last 3.5 miles. I saw you. I definitely used my blinker. He looks at me and he says, oh, your blinker must be out. I was like, sir, if you give me a ticket for this blinker being out, I'm getting out, I'm videotaping that my blinker is working on my 2015 vehicle, and taping you, and I'm not paying this ticket. He said give me your information. He goes back, comes back, and is like I'm giving you a warning, not a written warning, just a verbal warning, and said make sure you get that blinker fixed. I'm like really dude, really? I've just got bad luck or something. I don't know what it is.

Jason H: The blinker was working. It still was working?

Owen: Yes, it's a brand new car. It works.

Leo: The just suspect you, and they have to have some rationale for pulling you over, and they are hoping that if they run your plates that they will find you’re...

Owen: So I'm thinking, do I have like a warrant out?

Leo: Is it the Hyundai? Is it beat up? Does it look like a cheesy Hyundai?

Owen: It's a brand new Hyundai? It's a 2015. My Hyundai is sexy. When I roll up on the streets...

Leo: Well that's the problem.

Owen: It is a problem. It looks like a Lexus or something, right? It's like I've got money. So anyway. The NSA can't find me. I'm off the grid. I told you.

Leo: Where do we stand now on the Net Neutrality rules? Have they even happened? What is the latest on that? FCC has told ISP's, I think that this is good, that if they have any doubts about how they should protect broadband consumer privacy under the new Net Neutrality regulations you might want to ask us, the FCC. They said they would be looking for good faith efforts to comply with privacy protections, thank you, but if you asked our input that would show good faith. The Title 2 Common Carrier regulations take effect June 12th unless there is a court stay. It's been so quiet. I don't know if there is anything going on. So June 12th, for all of the people who think, like John C. Dvorak, that at that point the whole thing is going to go to hell in a hand basket and we are going to have to get a license to podcast we will see. June 12th it should happen. So far I like hearing the FCC saying, hey ISP's, you might want to think about protecting your user's privacy. Nobody had asked them that before. Let's see, I'm rapidly running out of things. Let me do another commercial. If you guys see anything, look down the list of things. Did you see that we are now on Spotify? That's a good thing.

Jason S: You kind of preannounced that on MacBreak Weekly this week.

Leo: I did?

Jason S: A little bit. 

Leo: I was under NDA. What did I say?

Jason S: You said can I talk about it? Can I talk about it? Well, anyway, we are on Spotify and Deezer.

Leo: Oh, okay.

Jason S: Nobody noticed. Then I saw the Spotify announcement and I said, Leo!

Leo: When was that? Jeez, whoops. Anyway, this is very good news. Spotify has released a new IOS version, it will soon be on Android, that allows video clips, podcasts, they have a lot of nice new features like if you are a runner, which I'm not, obviously. It will find music that matches your cadence, your pace. It's kind of interesting that they are going to do video. They've never done video. It's always been a music service. They are going to go well beyond that, and they have a number of podcasts, including our own. All of our shows are on there, audio and video so you can watch on Spotify.

Jason H: You hear the footsteps of Apple coming, you know?

Leo: Well they want to get this out before Beats. I have to say, at this point, and I'm sure Apple will announce this next month at WWDC; Beats just has no shot. Look at Title, which launched with Jay Z and had every major modern star in attendance.

Owen: No, don't say that. Just cut that, though. So what was wrong with Title, one, it was not aesthetically pleasing, it didn't feel good, it didn't look good. Apple doesn't have that issue and or problem with anything that they do. Everything is always sleek and sexy.

Leo: You think that they have a shot?

Owen: I think that they have a nice user base. I think that they have a nice catalog if they want to send out an email blast and get some people to look at their product. I'm just saying that a lot of people will give a shot as opposed to...

Leo: Don't you think that most people have chosen, though? Like, I chose, actually I was on Spotify and moved to Google All Access, but I'm going back to Spotify now. What do you listen do? Don't you listen to Beats? Do you listen to Beats Music?

Owen: I did when I had a Samsung phone. Not anymore.

Leo: Now what do you listen to?

Owen: I download all of my music because I don't have time for all of that stuff.

Leo: You are not a streaming guy. How about you, Jason?

Jason S: I'm an old man, so I've got a lot of things on my own. But I also have Beats, yeah.

Leo: Beats?

Jason S: Uh huh.

Leo: Beats has some interesting stuff. I'm not saying Beats is bad, but it did not get much traction.

Owen: Because it was Beats, and Beats was a headphone company trying to do something different. They were also stepping into a new market. Apple has a music and a selling point market. It's different. When they push it out to people, people are going to at least give it a chance and try it, as opposed to Beats being put on my phone.

Leo: Well I will try it. I will try it. They will have a 30 day free trial, right?

Owen: Yeah, so.

Leo: It was funny, when I went back to Spotify all of my playlists are still there. I had a bunch of great playlists on there and stuff. I was really pleased. That stuff you cannot move over.

Owen: No.

Leo: I think that most people see the library as commoditized. Everybody has roughly the same music, right? There are some exclusives that Title, has, of course.

Owen: Not if you want to listen to Taylor Swift.

Leo: You are right.

Owen: I'm just saying that there may be more moves like that in the future. People feel more comfortable about selling their product through Apple because they are used to that than they are with other companies. We will see what happens. I'm just saying don't discount Apple doing anything because if Apple has shown us anything they can sell anything that they put their mind to.

Leo: But think about that watch? Has that watch been a success?

Owen: At the party that I was at today I saw regular people that aren't tech people, and four people had the watch

Leo: Wearing an Apple Watch?

Owen: Yeah, I was shocked. And he bought the expensive one. I was like, what are you doing? You know what the reason for people buying the $600 version versus the Sport? The glass is denser.

Leo: Yeah, Sapphire, they want Sapphire, yeah.

Owen: That was everybody's reasoning. Yeah. They all have rubber bands.

Leo: How many Apple Watch, we have a pretty good studio audience here, how many Apple Watches.

Owen: Ask the Google developers. That's a great test.

Leo: Alright, I guess that wasn't fair. You are wearing an Apple Watch. Owen is wearing an Apple Watch. Jason, you are wearing an Apple Watch, alright. Jason1

Jason S: He's 2 fisted, there you go.

Owen: He's doing the Leo!

Leo: He's doing the Leo.

Owen: He's doing the Leo. Don't go out of your house like that Jason.

Jason H: I go out of the house all the time like that. I look like a freaking dork because of doing content for people. I know that our audiences want us to talk about this stuff without actually talking out of our tail.

Leo: That's why I use both.

Jason H: Since the Apple Watch has been released I have been wearing both the Moto X and the Apple Watch.

Owen: If I saw you on the street I would beat you up and take your lunch money. Just so you know.

Jason H: You would be fully justified.

Owen: I'm taking your lunch money.

Jason H: I am disappointed that someone hasn't so far.

Leo: There is a company called Slice. I use the Slice app. The Slice app is great, it goes through your email, it lets you know when your orders are coming and stuff like that. It notifies you. They also are gleaning information with they are then, to track consumer spending. Of course Apple sends you an email, so if you are a Slice user you will a Slice notification that says your watch is on its way or whatever. They say, that according to the data that they have, this is the graph, that the Apple Watch sales were huge day 1. The initial inventory sold off and the order immediately fell and have been flat ever since. That is exactly the curve if you are a company that you don't want to see.

Jason S: I think that is exactly what is expected. There was huge pent up demand, and then there was an available sale on day 1 that was pretty good, then then the big problem is that those day 2 sales, that's the thing where you are placing an order for a product that you won't get for 6-8 weeks.

Leo: That kills sales because nobody wants to buy something that they can't get.

Jason H: If you get rid of that first graph, which is so massive and so huge, right, the rest of that graph probably looks pretty normal and is probably outselling every other smart watch.

Leo: 30,000 watches a day in the US. That is actually pretty good. I guess I would be happy with that.

Jason H: That's pretty good. You know that I've been a critic of Apple Watch and what the sales are going to be every time I come on the show. I've actually been seeing real people wearing these in Louisville, Kentucky. I saw the checkout, the cashier at checkout last night, she was wearing one. I asked her if she liked it, and she loved it. I saw 2 people, the week after it came out I saw 2 people at a gardener's fair here in Louisville wearing it. I asked both of them. The first one said absolutely. He was a college kid, a senior in college, he absolutely loved it, and he also had the iPhone 6+. He said between the 2 of them he does so much of his computing that way now.

Leo: Who needs a computer?

Jason H: I saw another guy who said that he loved it, but it needs more apps. Like I said, in my office, 6 people now, we are up to 6 people. I'm amazed how many people are buying it.

Leo: I'm just wondering how many real people bought smart watches of any kind.

Owen: That's what I was about to say. If you think about the way that the reverse hockey puck looks, you also have to think, again, about how Apple has a way of selling things.

Leo: Wait a minute, a reverse hockey puck looks exactly the same. It's a reverse hockey stick you meant, right?

Owen: Stick. I'm drinking. I'm talking. You know what I am saying. Don't clarify me. Listen to what I am telling you. The bottom line is that Apple sells things. Even though that chart looks the way that it looks, reverse, forward, or backwards, they still sold more watches from Apple than the other smart watches have sold in a year, or 6 month period, or whatever. You see more people wearing Apple Watches than you see with Gear 1, Gear 2, whatever. In that essence it's a success because regular people are buying it because Apple said so.

Leo: It took Apple 2 years to sell 2 million iPods. They are selling almost 1 million watches a month in the US.

Jason S: That 30,000 a day is like 10.5 million a year. 

Leo: Yeah, that ain't bad.

Jason S: That's crazy.

Leo: In fact, it's selling faster than the first iPhone and selling faster than the first iPod. I guess that it's not selling as fast as the first day, but who could?

Owen: The thing about that, how many Apple Watches have you seen versus any Gear 2 watches?

Leo: I haven't seen many of either really. 

Jason H: Zero.

Owen: You don't go outside. You live in that town, you have a town made of robot people. You live in Penta Luma. Penta Luma is like 42 Leos and that it is in Penta Luma. You have got to get outside of that town and meet some people. You will see them. They are out there.

Leo: I will ride my Segway to the city limits, but I won't go beyond.

Owen: That's pretty much how you are living.

Leo: You know what, we had a great week. We will get back to this topic. I want to show you, if you watched any of the shows this week you saw a lot of good stuff. We have got a little Letterman style kind of cut down.

Jason S: Nice.

Leo: Of all the stuff that happened this week.

(Video Plays): Previously, on TWiT. Oh, catbot. IOS Today. This is our new set. It is beautiful. My brain is connected to your brain. This is the show All About IOS. Apple Watch, iPhones, oh iPad. IPad, Apple TV. The New Screen Savers. Sometimes you want to make devices that save mankind and sometimes you just want to make a big stabbing robot. I, for one, welcome our robot overlords. Security Now. They are known as passive keyless entry and start. I have keyless entry on my car. All I have to do is touch the handle and it goes click and opens. Yes. Anyone who wants to can take your car and drive away with it. No! I will explain how. TWiT, now where did I put my keys? How about my Segways? They can't drive away with those can they? That, you will be able to chase them on the Segways. That's 12 miles an hour!

Leo: It would be like that low speed chase on that Seinfeld. We've got a big week coming up. Mr. Mike Elgan has details.

Mike Elgan: Coming up this week, re/code's Code Conference begins Tuesday in Southern California, Pebble's new Pebble Time smartwatch ships Wednesday, and Google's annual Google I/O Developer's Conference starts Thursday in San Francisco. We will cover the keynote live at starting just before 9:30 am. Of course Leo will host Tech News Today at 8:30 am on Thursday. Back to you Leo.

Leo: What? 8:30 in the morning? Oh dear. Oh dear. Our show today is brought to you by FreshBooks, the super simple Cloud accounting solution that makes it easy for you if you own a small business or you are a freelancer to get paid fast. If you charge for your time in hours you are going to love it. You can actually use your iPhone or Android app to keep track of time and hours. It makes it so easy to invoice, and very importantly makes it so easy for your clients to pay you. In fact, on average, FreshBooks users get paid 5 days faster. If you are using Word or Excel to make your invoices, as I was when I first discovered FreshBooks, you have got to try it. Professional looking invoices with a Pay Me button right on there. It also makes it easy if they don't pay you because automatic reminders are sent out. Most FreshBooks users save about 16 hours a month on administrative tasks like making invoices. Wouldn't that be awesome? That's like 2 extra days a month. On average they double their revenue, too, in the first 2 years. If you ever need help the FreshBooks rock stars are there ready to amaze you with their helpfulness. I think that you will like it. I used it for years and it really, really was a great solution. It's good for receipts, too. I had to bill meals, and travel, and hotels; all of that you take a picture with your smartphone and enter the receipt right into the invoice. It couldn't be easier. Come tax time you will be very happy. Make it easy this year for taxes with FreshBooks. Start it right now for 30 days free with no obligation at Don't forget when they ask you how did you hear about us, make sure that you mention TWiT., 30 days free right now. We thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech.

Barack Obama is on Twitter, POTUS, @POTUS. I always thought that he was because there is an @barackobama. Apparently that wasn't his thing. What is the deal there?

Jason H: The tweet was funny. It was like they finally let me have an account.

Leo: It took 8 years or whatever. Now he is fairly active on this. I think that he would tweet on the White House account with /bo, his initials, then you would know that he did it. Look at all of this. The funniest thing is that Bill Clinton, when he sees the POTUS account he says "Welcome to Twitter POTUS, one question, does that username stay with the office? #askingforafriend" You guys have mastered social media, I have got to say. The President responds, "Good question Bill Clinton. The handle comes with the house. Know anybody interested in FLOTUS?" It's the First Lady's account. Of course, Clinton would be, if Hilary Clinton gets elected President, I've heard she is running. If you use Twitter you can't help but see that she is running. She apparently has bought every Twitter ad forever. Is that just me or do you see that? Whenever you got to Twitter, well now it's TMobile, and Taylor Swift, and me.

Owen: She must be in your demo group.

Leo: You don't see that?

Jason H: The have got brilliant 20 year old interns running this this account.

Leo: Yeah, because they know, #askingforafriend, that's like you know what you are doing on the Twitter. It's sad to say that that immediately he goes on Twitter and terrible, horrible, racist crap is tweeted to his account.

Owen: You know what? The racist stuff, people are going to do it, I almost get it, you know. I would rather you would be in the streets preaching that you were racist than in the weeds hiding. I would rather know where they were coming from. The thing that is crazy is people that just automatically sent this man death threats. Do you not know that the Secret Service is going to come to your house? This one guy who called the news and reported that they showed up to his house, and of course he said something about killing the President, and he's a gun owner, and all of this kind of stuff. I'm like dummy, just because you make a fake id, they are going to find you. Talk about the NSA, I guess they would find me because they found some of these guys with fake names, and dummy emails, and stuff, and they showed up at everybody's door.

Leo: Of course they found them.

Owen: They found them quick. I was like how stupid are you?

Leo: That is pretty stupid. The President's people said, look, we knew that this would happen, of course it would, but we think that the opportunity to interact directly with voters is so valuable that we are willing to put up with a little bit of trolling. Everybody gets trolled on Twitter. 

Owen: I don't know its values for him anymore. He is done.

Leo: That's a good point, but as he said, this is just the President's account, whoever the President is.

Owen: I'm just saying, if I was him, I wouldn't be building up with all of my awesome Tweets the street cred of the next person who is going to be coming in for free and earn my 4.4 million followers.

Leo: He's got 2.38 right now. He's got fewer than Taylor Swift by a landslide. He's got to figure out what he's going to do after he gets out of office. He needs a job and stuff, right?

Owen: That's why he has his own name. You don't go out and pimp yourself on posts that you don't get to keep at POTUS. That's not branding, that's not marketing, and someone should have told Barack. But apparently he didn't call me like he should have, so he's making mistakes and wasting them golden tweets on POTUS and then somebody else gets to come in there and take it from him free.

Leo: That's a very good point.

Owen: No way Jose. That's not happening.

Leo: That's a very good point. Remember, for a while, Twitter said that Justin Bieber had his own server. Do you think that the President has his own server, the POTUS server?

Jason S: It seems a little weird to me that Twitter, I mean it's a generic, like White House, POTUS being totally generic...

Leo: There is an actual @barackobama.

Jason S: If you are a successful Presidential candidate, right, presumably you have your own successful Presidential Twitter account. The one thing that I can figure is that there are some rules about what the campaign can do as opposed to what you can do when you are in office. So the idea is maybe Barack Obama, @barakobama comes from his campaign, and the next President would have to similarly keep them separate. Now you've got White House, and POTUS, plus you have whatever the next President is, their personal address.

Leo: Well Hilary has got one. Whoever it is.

Jason S: It's confusing.

Owen: And the next person that steps in to be President, honestly they are not going to want to touch Twitter or any other kind of social media because they are going to be busy. Take one false step and you will be slammed. He could come on there all day and shoot 3's and miss, it doesn't matter. He's on his way out. But a new person coming in isn't going to hop on POTUS, and start making jabs at everybody, and trying to be funny. Like fool, you better run my country. You ain't got time to be tweeting. Anyway.

Leo: That's kind of my feeling. By the way, they show a picture of him using an iPhone, but he doesn't have an iPhone. So he obviously borrowed somebody's iPhone because he has to use a BlackBerry.

Jason H: Who knows how much Barack is actually involved with this launching. The only thing that I thought was sort of cool about it was that it reminded me of, remember that movie The American President, where Michael Douglas plays the President and he is taking hits all day from this guy who is running against him, you know?

Leo: Aaron Sorkin wrote the screenplay, so you know they are going to slam Twitter or whatever. What happened?

Jason H: Well then he gets to his speech in the end and he sort of lays into this guy and sort of reads him the riot act, and it's all great, but the last line of it, because this guy in his campaign speech where he is dogging the President keeps saying my name is, I can't remember his name, and I'm running for President. Finally in the speech where he is unleashing all of these zingers on this clown he says, my name is Andrew Shepherd, and I am the President. So that's kind of what POTUS reminds me of. Lots of people can tweet, and lots of people are going to say stuff, and politicians say dumb stuff all the time on their own accounts, and it sort of reminds me of here is Twitter account from the President.

Leo: How important is Twitter to Presidential politics, to elections? This has been going on for a while. Clinton appears on Arsenio Hall playing the saxophone when he was running for President. You see MTV, you see Presidential candidates showing up on MTV. It's part of whooing the electorate. Is Twitter, is it kind of the you have got to be there and you have got to be interacting with what do you call it, the viewers? What do you call when you tweet, your followers?

Owen: The media and people of our ilk would say, oh, why aren't you on Twitter? You should be on Twitter. But, if you actually look at the way the country votes, younger people, no matter how much MTV, no matter how much shucking and jiving you do on Arsenio Hall; they do not come out to vote. Most of the people that vote in this country are over a certain age group, and they are probably not on Twitter. To my point of building up 2.3 million followers, and a lot of people, what if a Republican gets in? Is it going to drop off of a cliff? People really don't hear what you are saying unless they are supporting you. So, you know, the people that vote are not younger people right now. They are not coming out in droves right now.

Leo: My point is that one of the reasons that candidates go on MTV is because they are hoping to bring out, there are voters that you capitalize on because they don't vote. If you can get them to the polls and voting for you that can make a big difference, right? But is Twitter where young people go? I don't think so. Who uses Twitter?

Jason H: More so than Facebook. It has a younger demo than Facebook does. I think Owen is right. It is a lot of young people. The only thing that I say they sort of keep in mind is that group that is on Twitter is probably that one that is swinging. It's the people that are not necessarily entrenched in one side or the other. It's definitely political gamesmanship on Twitter, but with that younger demographic there are people who are probably less solidified in their politician beliefs and, you know, sort of swing one way or the other. That's probably the biggest benefit. To reach some of those swing voters who are there. In every election those are the people that you have to convince. You have to rally your base and get them to show up, and then you have to get enough of those swing voters in the middle to come over to your side. Those are the 2 ways that you win elections in Presidential elections in the United States.

Owen: Maybe you get 10% extra people from Twitter. I know when Bill Clinton was on Arsenio Hall I know he stole my heart. From then on I loved the dude. He messed up a lot, but I just thought he was the coolest dude until Barack came through. Now Barack is the coolest President that we have ever had. I do know that that that television prescience that Bill Clinton did, I was like, that's Bill Clinton blowing up the saxophone! You just thought he was a cool dude. There are things where you can swing someone or inspire someone to vote if you do something the right way. So I understand. Put your nets, not all of your eggs in one basket per say, you have got spread the eggs out and get new people. But, in general...

Jason S: By the way, @barackobama is run by his 501c. I think that is a follow on from being run by the campaign. I really do wonder if the POTUS account is there because some lawyer said we should just have an Office of the President one because every President is going to have to keep it separate from their campaign account. 

Leo: The question that I find interesting is does the President have to be on Twitter? I feel like the President should not be on Twitter.

Jason S: I think that it is a communication mechanism. Is it really the President? When Clinton sent his email that was the first President to send an email. They had to tell him how to do it.

Leo: Even Taylor Swift I'm sure is not Taylor Swift on Twitter.

Jason S: Yeah, they have people.

Leo: They have people, yeah.

Jason S: They have writers.

Jason H: Talented clearly.

Jason S: Letterman's writers can go there.

Owen: Taylor Swift does her own stuff. Don't use her as an example. Taylor Swift does...

Leo: Does she really?

Owen: Check her Instagram, check her stuff. She be doing personal pictures and stuff of her own.

Leo: Well, yeah, but somebody is taking those personal pictures.

Owen: No, anyway, not Taylor Swift. Use somebody else. 

Leo: No, I'm very impressed, because she is using social media as well as anybody, right? She gives gifts to her fans. I know that.

Owen: Taye Diggs followed me from the last time that I was on TWiT. Shout out to Taye Diggs. I was like, oh, look at Taye Diggs. He's an actor. He's a cool guy. Now he's following me because I guess he watches your show. So I was like, why are you following me?

Leo: That's awesome.

Jason H: He follows me too. That's so funny.

Leo: He follows you too?

Jason H: He does.

Owen: See, you've got reach, Uncle Leo. You've got reach.

Leo: Does he want to be on the show?

Owen: I will ask him.

Leo: Would you? I doubt he follows me.

Owen: I doubt it.

Jason H: He might. He follows a lot.

Leo: Is it the real Taye Diggs, or just the Taye Diggs social media group?

Jason H: No, it's his account. It's his verified account.

Owen: It's his account. Certified.

Leo: Yeah, I will be honest. I think that if you are the President than you have other things to do than just the tweeting.

Owen: That was my point earlier. I don't really care. You have got stuff to do dude. What you tweet out, again, people are going to say, oh, are there aliens coming? Let me go check with the President. They are going to go to whatever news outlet website. They follow somebody on Twitter and believe anything that they say versus listening to the President. That's just how the world works anymore.

Leo: By the way, Taye is going to be Hedwig on Broadway. Taye, you are the right guy for that. That's going to be awesome. Great show. Apple wants local TV in its web TV service. That means don't expect web TV from Apple for some time. That is crazy talk, but if it didn't come from Peter Kafka on Re/code I would not credit it, but boy these guys, Peter and Dawn Chmielewski, definitely know what they are talking about. Industry executives familiar with Apple plans say that they are going to individual cities, to individual broadcasters, local broadcasters, and they want for you if you have an Apple TV, for you to be able to get your local station in your area.

Jason S: It’s easier than it used to be because one, so many more of the affiliates are owned by the networks now. The regulations about how many stations a network can own have been watered down to the point where you can make a deal with ABC and pick up a huge number of ABC stations. Two, there is some infrastructure that has happened in the last few years. Direct TV spent the last 5 or 10 years building out their local station broadcasts where most, if not all, most markets if you get DIRECTV you can get local channels. That requires DIRECTV to make a deal.

Leo: Well, cable companies do it now. There is the must carry rules.

Jason S: Right, but the cable is local, right? With Apple they are trying to make it everywhere. It's an interesting idea. The idea is that if you want to be a cord cutter but still want to get TV service over the internet you don't want to slam the door on your local CBS station.

Leo: This is exactly what keeps people from cord cutting is the access to the live locals. Things like the Academy Awards and the Super Bowl on the live locals.

Jason S: Not everybody can put up a little antenna because there are a lot of suburbs...

Leo: You can't here.

Jason S: I'm blocked by a mountain.

Leo: I would love to get the San Francisco stations, but we can't get them. We get Roner Park. Nice little station in Roner Park.

Jason S: Channel 50.

Leo: Yeah, that's it.

Jason S: KFTY.

Leo: You know that you are in bad shape when you are reaching channel 50 and channel 77. Well, that's interesting. Maybe it won't be a delay because they can go to the ONO's.

Jason S: I feel like all of the rumors of Apple TV coming out with a new version in June seems to me like Apple has finally just decided they are going to do this all in public. They are going to get the new hardware out there. They are going to negotiate when people know it. Chasing the element of surprise has delayed their Apple TV release, potentially by a couple of years. They don't need to do it. This is also a sign of Tim Cook's Apple being a little bit more open about this stuff, and not feeling that they need to drop this whole big mind blowing thing all at once with everybody on board, but instead just go back and do it piecemeal if they have to. Just to get it done.

Leo: That's something that they will talk about next month at WWBC.

Jason S: At the developer conference. I would assume so.

Leo: They did not hold on to the announcement of their new iMacs, less expensive iMacs and new MacBook Pros with Force Touch. They just put out a press release this week and said, hey, we got new iMacs.

Jason S: The other speedbump is that they tend to do that. They just put out a press release.

Leo: Although, I've got to say, I love that new 5k Retina iMac. If you can get it for $1,999 that's pretty good. That's $300 less.

Jason S: I think that they dropped the higher end model's price by $200 or $300, too. I have one of those, and it's great.

Leo: It's gorgeous.

Jason S: I'm not sure I would advocate the $1,999 model because it's a spinning hard drive. It doesn't even have a Fusion drive with the SSD.

Leo: Get the $2,300.

Jason S: I feel like if you have to pop a few hundred dollars more to get some SSD in there to make the storage faster, do it.

Leo: Do it.

Jason S: That is a great system. It is about as fast as the base MacBook Pro, I believe. 

Leo: I know, that makes me cry.

Jason S: And it's got that 5k display.

Leo: It makes me cry every day. It's the way to go. I'm sad about my MacPro. They also announced that the Force Touch trackpad will make its way to the 15 inch, it's been on the 13 inch, MacBook Pro. 

Jason S: Since the same day as they announced the MacBook. Now it's on the 15 as well.

Leo: You are using an 11. Lisa just got the new MacBook. She says she's taking a little time to get used to the new keyboard, which has very little travel but it is thin. My Acer S7, which is also very thin and had very little key travel.

Jason H: That keyboard is amazing, though.

Leo: Do you like it?

Jason H: I've been talking up Apple today, which is weird for me.

Jason S: That is weird.

Jason H: Yeah, Jason Snell knows. But I love the keyboard on that 12 inch MacBook.

Leo: You do?

Jason H: Yeah, I did my review. I released my review with professionals in mind using this thing and my review was basically that it was for highly mobile business travelers and kind of web workers. It is kind of the state of the art, and that keyboard I literally am faster and more accurate with that keyboard. Just that time of travel, that little bit less key travel, every one counts. I feel like I, and I have measured it a little bit, and I am faster. Because the keys are wider and less space between keys I am a little more accurate on that keyboard. I don't like Force Touch. I deactivated it because it annoyed the heck out of me.

Leo: Can you use it without it? It doesn't have a click.

Jason H: Force Touch is essentially just like a long press, right?

Leo: You still get the click, you just don't use the long press?

Jason H: I just don't use that long press thing, because it messed up when I tried to click and drag. I tried to click and drag files into folders and the stupid Force Touch thing would come up. I hated that but I love the keyboard. As far as the ports thing, it's kind of weird too with only one port. It does have great battery life, so it's kind of weird unplugging your charger to plug something into USB drive.

Leo: I bought the silly $79 dongle.

Jason H: Yeah, the dongle.

Leo: That is a ridiculous price for that, but it goes into this Type-C port and then gives you a regular USB port, a full sized HDMI, and another Type-C so you can charge or charge a phone. It goes in both directions, which is kind of interesting.

Jason H: It's cool, because now you are going to be able to go and charge this off like one of the battery packs like you use to charge your phone. So I think that is one of the coolest things about it. I also felt like this machine, I love the 11 inch MacBook Air, so...

Leo: That's what Jason is using right now.

Jason H: Yeah, so I am sort of the ideal candidate for this machine. It is impressive that they got the Retina display in there at 12 inches because it's basically the same size as the 11 inch. It's just a little bit wider, and just a little bit narrower, and obviously thinner, but it's very similar form factor. The fact that they got the display in there and it doesn't hit batter life, I still get 9 or 10 hours. I get through a coast to coast flight with that thing easily with no problem. 

Leo: You saw Marco Armet, who just said this is the worst thing ever. He called it mistake one. Marco, we should explain, is very well known in the Mac community, one of the premier Mac programmers. He was one of the first hires at Tumblr. He did Instapaper. He was doing Overcast, a podcast client. He says he hates the keyboard, he says it's too slow, he hates everything.

Jason S: He thinks that the Retina display is fuzzy. I don't agree with him on any of those points, except that I also don't like the keyboard. For me it just doesn't work. I don't like that reduced travel.

Leo: If you compare them to the 15 inch, they are bigger.

Jason S: The keycaps are bigger. It's a full sized keyboard.

Leo: They should be easier to hit.

Jason S: They are easier to hit. They are more stable. They make a loud noise when you press them, which a lot of people like.

Jason H: They are loud.

Leo: They are loud, yeah.

Jason S: There also is a lot less travel. When I talked to Apple about this when I was writing my review, they said look, we know that less travel is a compromise. They admitted it, which believe me, they usually don't do that. They don't usually admit compromise. They said that in exchange for that we tried to do a lot of other things, like the new mechanism that we use in the bigger key caps and all of these other things to try and offset the reduced travel. You know, it does a little bit, but in the end for me, losing that travel I don't like the feel of it. That's a personal choice. Everybody who talks to me about getting one of these, I say go to the Apple store and give it a try and see if you might like it or not.

Leo: See if you get used to it.

Jason S: For some people it is fine and other people will hate it.

Leo: I actually kicked in on this Kickstarter Hub+ thing. They got funded. See, this is what is interesting, because Apple, for the first time in living memory, have chosen a standard. That means that you don't have to go get a MagSafe. You can just to Monoprice and just get the cheapest dongles made because Type-C is standard. This company Hub+ is going to make something that plugs into the Type-C and gives you another Type-C, something that looks like a mini display port, another full sized USB, a SD card reader, this thing is crazy. It's colored to match. They say that it will be out in June. I find that hard to believe, but maybe they have already made it. The Kickstarter project itself still has 3 weeks to go. They have raised, their goal was $35,000, and they have raised over $111,000. 2 USB C ports, an SD card reader, mini display port, 3 USB 3 charging ports, and it's got a battery in it. So you can use it to charge your phone. That's crazy.

Jason H: Yeah, that's pretty clever.

Leo: I immediately ordered one because I'm a complete sucker. Anything that I read on Kickstarter I believe.

Jason H: One thing on Apple TV, if we could go back to that for just a second. 

Leo: Go back to Apple TV. Go anywhere you want to go.

Jason H: Cool. I've heard the same thing, that it's not likely to be released, that it's probably going to be delayed until the fall. They will talk about it, certainly, in one way or another, I would think, at WWDC. I have been hearing that it is probably going to be delayed until fall. The interesting thing, one of the reasons that probably matters, is because of HomeKit. It's another thing that they are going to be talking about.

Leo: That was going to be the hub, wasn't it? Or at least we thought that it might be the hub.

Jason H: So, in one way or another there is going to be important ways that HomeKit integrates with it. Not exactly sure what the details will be, of course, but it could be that it's part of the security package, it could be that it's the hub so that you don't need another hub. With all of these security things you need some kind of hub with Wink, or with SmartThings, or Belkin Wemo, or others. It's the wild west with home automation, and smart home, and connected home stuff right now. Apple is making a big play with that with HomeKit. Google, we are likely going to hear what their play is. I think in the end...

Leo: Microsoft too, don't forget.

Jason H: And Microsoft, too. Microsoft has a leg up in the sense because of Xbox. There are already a lot of Xboxes in the home. Maybe they could turn the Xbox somehow into a hub. But, I think that it's more likely that Apple and Google become big players in this because mobile is going to be huge in using mobile to interact with the smart home. So it's going to be really interesting to watch. People should keep in mind with the Apple TV thing, that HomeKit, that they are riding shotgun on whatever happens with Apple TV. That local TV thing is important, but it also has an important function for whatever their HomeKit plans are as well.

Leo: Let's take a break. Jason Hiner is here from CBS Interactive and the TechRepublic. Owen J.J. Stone from parts unknown.

Owen: Duress places unknown.

Leo: Soon. Call those ladies at the pool. You will soon be there.

Owen: I already sent a text message. I already prepped that strike.

Leo: We are almost done. We are wrapping them up. And, of course, always wonderful to have our neighbor now, Jason Snell from Our show today is brought to you by something that you love, Jason, We love those audiobooks.

Jason S: I have got a book for you.

Leo: You've got a book for me? Alright, listen, because here is the thing. We are going to give you 2 free books, so listen because this may be one of them that you want to listen to at Audible. I, right now, am listening to the Otherland series, a former Apple engineer who became a science fiction author, is it Tad Williams? Is that right? It's really good. John Solina said that I had to get these books. It's a trilogy that just came out on Audible. It's about a future, 4 books, where VR is everywhere. The world has gotten used to the notion of being able to go into a VR world, and if you have enough money you can even experience things like eating food. But, you know, it's commonplace, it's normal, but is it safe? Things start happening. The City of Golden Shadow, that's where I am right now, the Otherland book 1. I love science fiction. I love science fiction that is about a world that I dream of being in, like a world where VR is ubiquitous. I love thinking about what would that mean? How would that be? I will never live in that world, but at least I can live there vicariously. The best thing about Audible is that you can listen to these books and they are like movies in your mind. They come alive. You are there. I listen when I drive, I listen when I do the dishes, on the treadmill working out, I love Audible. It's actually good for you because it makes you work out more. It makes you clean the house more. It reduces your stress if you have a bad commute. We are going to get you 2 books when you go to 2 books, your first month is free, your first 2 books are free, and you can cancel at any time in those first 30 days. You don't pay a penny but those books are for you to keep forever. Aren't they making Ready Player One into a movie? I think that I heard that. That would be a good one. Ernest Cline's classic read by Will Wheaton before the movie comes out. I don't know, everybody has a different opinion about this, I'm of the strong opinion always read the book before you go see the movie. The movie is going to spoil it.

Jason S: There is also an unknown director working on that. Steven Spielberg.

Leo: I've heard of him! Wow.

Jason S: He's an up and comer.

Leo: He's not producing, he's directing it?

Jason S: He's actually directing it.

Leo: Wow. That will be cool. What are you reading?

Jason S: The Goblin Emperor. I just finished it.

Leo: I like the name.

Jason S: It's so great. It's obviously a fantasy novel, but the plot is basically the main character unknown 4th son of the current emperor of the elf empire or whatever. There is a zeppelin accident, or was it on purpose, and he is suddenly thrust into being the emperor of this entire thing. Nobody likes him, and there might be assassination attempts, and there might be conspiracies, and it's all about...

Leo: You read the weirdest stuff.

Jason S: It's nominated for the Nebula Award for the best Sci-Fi and nominated for the Hugo Award for best Sci-Fi novel.

Leo: Is it fantasy? It's fantasy really?

Jason S: It's fantasy, but there's very little magic, there is not a lot of like sword fighting or things like that. It's about this character learning to be in charge and navigating his way when he is completely ill prepared to becoming the leader. I read it because it was nominated and I'm trying to read all of the nominees. You know what? It's great. I really like it. It's got lots of weirdly spelled words that were invented by the writer. Perfect for Audible because it's somebody else's problem to figure out how to pronounce all of those words. You don't have to read them.

Leo: Alright, I'm adding it to my wish list.

Jason S: It's good. It's really surprising.

Jason H: I've got a couple.

Leo: Okay.

Owen: He just tricked you.

Leo: Jason Hiner. The good thing about this Goblin Emperor, it's not a trilogy.

Jason S: The author says its stand alone. She doesn't even plan a sequel.

Leo: Thank you.

Jason S: Which makes me sad, because I like it a lot. Not a series. Not one of 10.

Leo: It's such a commitment. Otherland, 4 books, it's a commitment. What do you got Jason?

Jason H: I've got 2, David McCullough has a new book, The Wright Brothers.

Leo: Oh, I know. I can't wait to hear that.

Jason H: Love David McCullough, but I thought, you know, this story has been out there. What could he do with that story? I started reading it and I'm just completely hooked. Completely hooked. It's so good, and he reads it, too, and he has such a great voice.

Leo: He is the best. He often doesn't do his unabridged versions because I guess he is busy, but boy, if you can listen to David McCullough read a book.

(Audio Plays): They sit side by side on the front porch steps of the Wright home on a small side street...

Leo: You have heard his voice on many documentaries. He's a great historian, but he is also one of the best narrators around. Okay, good choice.

Jason H: It is a great book. It is about innovation, too. It's about that turn of the century where, and this is funny because it has such important implications as we thing about the ways that we think about the future and some of these technologies. You go back and you see the assumptions that they had then, which was like, okay, these guys are flying, that means that this is the way that everyone is going to travel, right? It was kind of like the flying car thing. Everybody was going to have a plane and they were going to fly everywhere. They are going to fly to the grocery store, they are going to fly, you know?

Leo: It's the future.

Jason H: And that is the future. The funny thing is that the car was just happening, right? It was like, we had the horse, and now we have got the car, and now we've got the plane. They were making these huge leaps in this very short span of time. So not unlike the way that we have with certain communication technologies right now. So I found that really interesting, just looking at the assumptions that we are making about things, and the ways that we always make assumptions about what does this mean for the future. That one is super cool. Also, the Elon Musk book by Ashley Vance that just came out too.

Leo: Yeah, Ashley is going to be on Triangulation I think next week.

Jason H: Oh, that's great. That's awesome.

Leo: He has done a great job with that book. Some amazing stuff. I can't wait.

Jason H: Yeah.

Leo: Okay, good.

Jason H: Excellent. Both of those are fantastic. Between that and trying to use my Apple Watch to make sure that I get all of my activity in I've been going on all kinds of walks so that I can listen to audiobooks and make sure that I reach my activity meter for the day.

Leo: I love Audible. You can see that everyone loves Audible. Jurassic Park, I can't wait to go see the new movie, and they have re-released, this is actually a new Audible recording of Jurassic Park. I guess there never was an audiobook of Jurassic Park.

Jason H: Oh, it's read by Scott Brick. He is the best.

Leo: He is one of the best, yep. So there is another one. You only get 2. Only., get your first 2 books free. You will thank us for it later, honest, trust me. Owen, the women await. A pool party without Owen J.J., tell me the truth, do you do the cannonball?

Owen: I'm over here.

Leo: Do you do the cannonball? Do you get everybody wet?

Owen: Hold on Uncle Leo, I think that the rescue team is coming. They have a strange light stick.

Leo: He is almost out of his glass prison.

Owen: Help, I'm right here.

Leo: Zod, he's down there.

Owen: Somebody save me.

Leo: Are you going to do a cannonball when you get there just to let them know that you are there?

Owen: No, the pool is heated and I want to keep the water in the pool, so when I get to doing cannonballs then a tidal wave is afoot. It's not safe. It's not a safe situation.

Leo: Grab your children, here comes J.J.!

Owen: Everybody out of the pool. No cannonballs for me. I don't get thrown into the pool, either, I'm too big. I do all of the throwing.

Leo: Yeah, no, you are in charge. Large and in charge. It's @o-h-d-o-c-t-a-h on the Twitter, ohdoctah. He doesn't even know where it comes from.

Owen: I do know where it comes from.

Leo: Do you? Where does it come from?

Owen: You told me specifically where it came from.

Leo: Yes, you didn't know what I told you, though. 

Owen: And I confronted my friend about it and he finally admitted that that was where it came from.

Leo: A friend called you that?

Owen: When I was in the 8th grade my buddy who is a big baseball freak called me that because I'm like oh doctor, I help everybody, I'm smart, I know everything. He's like, oh, like a doctor you fix everything. He's like ohdoctah. I'm like that's cool. I've been calling myself ohdoctah since the 8th grade, and I have been crediting Brian Derico for it, and then you came and ruined his dream because when I told him he was like how did you know that? I'm like, somebody told me about this baseball announcer...

Leo: Some old guy who used to listen to old baseball games...

Owen: And then I pulled up the audio and he was like ohdoctah. I'm like that's me!

Jason S: Jerry Coleman. Are you thinking Jerry Coleman?

Leo: Oh, no, I'm trying to think.

Jason S: The hall of fame broadcaster for the San Diego Padres, that was his catch phrase, was oh doctor. Oh doctor!

Leo: No, it went back further than that.

Jason S: Okay.

Leo: He used to be on Morning Edition on NPR. They call him in Florida and they would talk.

Owen: You used to know his name. How did you forget his name? 

Leo: Because I'm old. I'm getting as old as he is now, and I don't remember nothing no more.

Owen: You told me like 4 years ago, so I don't remember.

Leo: Ohdoctah!

Owen: That's what it is. That's it.

Leo: Ohdoctah. I'm going to find it. I've got to remember his name. Ohdoctah. Red Barber, that's who it is. The old redhead, the original ohdoctah guy.

Jason S: That's right, it said it was picked up the other broadcasters, most notably Jerry Coleman. So it started with Red Barber who was Vin Skully's first broadcast partner.

Leo: This was the guy. He was with the Reds, the Dodgers, and the Yankees until '66. It was ohdoctah.

Owen: I never knew until you told me that it was a play on baseball.

Leo: I am so glad that I was the guy that told you that.

Owen: My friend Brian is not glad about it. He's like who told you that? 

Leo: He's been taking credit for it all this time.

Owen: He's been taking credit for it for 20+ years. He was like nobody our age knows that. Who told you that? I was like, yeah, you got caught. That's what it was.

Leo: Have you ever heard of a guy named Red Foxx?

Owen: Yes.

Leo: Oh, never mind. I was going to try old stuff on you. Do you remember when Chrysler first introduced car door locks? Do you remember that? 1949, great year.

Jason H: 1949?

Leo: Ignition locks. There were door locks before. The first ignition locks. Huh?

Owen: I was just talking to someone about being in a car with an 8 track and the bench seating, and they were like you aren't old enough for that. I'm like, yeah, my grandpa's car did. They were like, it had an 8 track in it? I'm like yeah.

Leo: Oh, I've got one for you. You know Motorola? You know where the name Motorola comes from? They made, their first product was a record player that would go in your car. It was a Victrola for your motoring, a Motorola. What a bad idea.

Jason S: The worst idea ever.

Leo: A record player?

Owen: I am Googling that right now because I don't believe you.

Jason S: A car record player.

Leo: No, Jason is backing me up on this one.

Jason S: Don't take that corner too tight or you will skip the record.

Owen: Wow!

Leo: Did you find it? You can buy them now.

Owen: It was like under the dash, too. It had its own glove compartment. That's hysterical.

Leo: Isn't that wild?

Owen: That's crazy. Wow.

Leo: Are you wearing a bathing suit right now?

Owen: Yeah, I've got my trunks on.

Leo: Let's see.

Owen: No! I told you that I don't wear pants.

Leo: You are wearing something. 

Owen: I am wearing something. It's a family show Uncle Leo. Can we say goodbye to everyone else so I can get out of here?

Leo: Here you go. Owen, I want you to pull up a Lincoln with suicide doors and a Motorola record player in the dash.

Owen: Oh, Mohammed Ali had one!

Leo: Yeah! Yeah!

Owen: That's crazy. That's like the original Discman. It's like a CD changer. You have got a record crate in the back.

Leo: Look at the push button transmission. What do they call that pushbutton transmission? Jason Hiner, he is from TechRepublic there in Louisville. I know, one of those Jason’s. We are confused. Is it Jason Snell or Jason Hiner?

Jason Howell: There is a little Jason confusion. I apologize.

Leo: Jason is with TechRepublic and CBS Interactive, @jasonhiner on the Twitter. Don't forget the book, what is it, geeks?

Jason H:


Jason H: And @followthegeeks on Twitter. On TechRepublic this week, my review on my Android Wear vs Apple Watch comes out. I went a month with both. I know that I talked a lot about Apple Watch, but there is a lot that I like with Android Wear as well. So I've got my in depth article, as well as a video, and some screenshots and some photos.

Leo: Which one? Give us a preview. Did you pick one?

Jason H: Well, so I started out, Android Wear has a much easier on ramp, I will be honest. Especially if you are already on the Android ecosystem. Much, much easier. Much simpler. But it does a lot less, right? It's so weird, too, also in that way, whereas the Apple Watch is much more capable, much more customizable, much more, this is usually the argument that we make opposite for both platforms. At the same time, the Android Wear, I had some performance issues with Android Wear, where I did have a bit more smoothness, a little better reliability with the Apple Watch. There are things that I like about both platforms, so I talk about those two things. In terms of which one, whether I'm going to wear one long term, and which one, I will sort of save that for when the review comes out. Also because I'm still finishing it.

Owen: Take out your lunch money, sir. I expect a PayPal lunch money payment. From PayPal. Punishment. Penitence must be served.

Jason H: Agreed, agreed.

Owen: Thank you.

Leo: Jason Snell, he is going to pull out his Lincoln that is out front.

Jason S: With the record already spinning.

Leo: Yeah, you know, I will tell you the one that I want, which is the one that Neil Young makes, which is called the LincVolt. It's an electric Lincoln. He hasn't yet got these coming out.

Jason S: Does that guy make anything practical?

Leo: No. Look at this. It is Repowering the American Dream. The world's first full sized luxury series hybrid electric car powered by Biomass. He's got one. I want one.

Jason S: There is a lot of Biomass in Neil Young's products. I will say that.

Leo: You don't like Mr. Neil Young?

Jason S: I like him just fine. I just think that the Pono is a fake out, and doesn't help anybody, and doesn't sound any better. This seems ridiculous too, but hey, he's a legend. He can do whatever he wants with his money.

Leo: I'm going to the LincVolt store right now. Oh, page not found.

Owen: Didn't we discuss you and making back decisions? You are going to have to start texting me on all executive decisions. Or run them by Lisa. You need help.

Leo: This is very aspirational because you go to the LincVolt store, and they have items in your cart. Zero dollars. Sorry, page not found. It's like they are ready, ready to sell them. If they only had some.

Jason S: You need a higher fidelity screen to see that page.

Leo: Jason Snell, he is at, and, of course, the Incomparable, and many other places. And often found here now, which I really am liking.

Jason S: Yeah, it's great. I'm down the road. I'm happy to come up.

Leo: I really am grateful. I really appreciate it. Nice to see you.

Jason S: Thanks for having me. 

Leo: We wish a good Memorial Day. I don't want to say happy. It's a solemn day. I know many of you will be barbequing tomorrow, going to pool parties with Owen J.J. Stone, but it is also a day that we want to remember those who have given their all to this country, and maybe take a little time out to hug a soldier, and thank them for their service.

Owen: In which case that is celebratory. Be happy when you see a soldier. Be thankful, be grateful, and think about the hardships that they have to deal with coming home. You know everybody tells you how patriotic it is to sign up, but sometimes you have to think about helping these guys out coming home. The ones that are alive also.

Leo: I agree.

Jason H: Here! Here!

Leo: Thank you all for being here. We do TWiT every Sunday afternoon, that's 3pm Pacific, 6pm Eastern Time, 2200 UTC. Like it if you are here, love it if you are in studio, email Thank you all for coming. It makes it so much fun for us to do a show with a live studio audience. We do the same thing for The Screen Savers on Saturday afternoons. So now make TWiT part of your weekend. Just come stay for the whole weekend and enjoy all of the great programming. If you can't be here, though, whether in person, or in our chatroom, or on the stream, do get the on demand audio or video at That's our website, soon to be brand new and better I hope. Quarter of a million dollars better? We will see. But also on, you know, on iTunes, or your podcast app, Overcast if you use Marco's app. Just subscribe to TWiT. Spotify too. You can watch the show from now on every week on your Spotify app on IOS. Thanks for being here. We will see you next time! Another TWiT is in the can. Take care.

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