This Week in Tech 510 (Transcript)

Leo Laporte: It's time for TWIT: This Week in Tech! We've got a great show for you. Jeff Jarvis joins us, Miriam Joire, and from Bloomberg Business Week: Mark Milian. We're going to talk about the Verizon merger with AOL, AT&T, and Direct TV. What to expect, the Google IO, and WWDC. I'm going to do a little rapping. It's all coming up next, on TWiT.

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Leo: This is TWiT, This Week in Tech, episode 510. Recorded May 17, 2015

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It's time for TWiT: This Week in Tech! The show where we cover the week's tech news with some of the best journalists in the business. Not last week, but this week yes. I'm really glad to welcome Jeff Jarvis, who is normally here Wednesdays for This Week in Google. He's a professor of journalism at the City University of New York. He blogs at He likes long walks on the beach. I'm sorry.

Jeff Jarvis: He's usually pinker than this.

Leo: He's looking good. I like the hair. It's growing out there. That's nice. That's good. It's good to see you on a weekend, Jeff.

Jeff: Great to see you.

Leo: Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.

Jeff: I'm honored and delighted. I was hurt that I haven't been asked on in a long time.

Leo: You've done this show before though.

Jeff: I've done the show before, but it's been quite a while. I thought, what did I do wrong?

Leo: I feel like it's cheating when we ask our other hosts to be on the show. That's too easy.

Jeff: I love it, to be honest.

Leo: Good. Put him down for more often, will you, Jason Howell? I love Jeff. He's the greatest. Plus, you were so cranky on Wednesday.

Jeff: I was. I felt bad. Matthew is the nicest guy in the world. Even for a Canadian, he's really nice. We disagreed, and I went into full Jeff mode, and he was in Matthew nice mode. I lost that one.

Leo: It was fun. We liked it.

Jeff: You had it. Jeff move on. Enough.

Leo: I was just trying to get to a commercial. I was representing the economic interests of the program, that's all. It's good theatre. Also here from Bloomberg Business Week, Mr. Mark Milian. Great to have you back.

Mark Milian: Always a good time here.

Leo: Do you live in the city now?

Mark: I do, yeah. Today was what is called beta breakers. It's supposed to be an annual marathon.

Leo: It's not even ten miles.

Mark: Now it's just a bunch of frat boys get drunk and puke in the city streets.

Leo: It's gotten a little out of hand. There's no athleticism involved.

Mark: There is for the first hour of the competition, and then there's another four hours of drinking publically.

Leo: It makes it hard to get around. Great to have you, though. He covers global technology for Bloomberg. Great to have you in the studio with us. Also, Myriam Joire is here. Love having her here. Formerly of Engadget, You've got a website now! Are you putting stuff there, now?

Myriam Joire: Yeah. Review videos and stuff. Whatever comes to mind.

Leo: Long-time mobile phone editor at Engadget. You have so many cool things.

Myriam: I do a lot of phone reviews.

Leo: She's a regular on Before you Buy. She's also a regular on All About Android. This is the LGG 4. Jeff, this is the next great device.

Myriam: This is the one.

Leo: You like it.

Myriam: Pardon the pun, but it edges out the GS 6.

Leo: I've been using the Galaxy S6, but I have to say it's a little wonky. I have to re-boot it every day. This might be a Lollipop problem. People say there's a memory leak in Android 5.0. The hope is that 5.2 will fix it, but I'm running 5.11. I have to re-boot.

Jeff: I'm not getting that on the Nexus 6.

Leo: You aren't?

Jeff: No.

Myriam: I'm kind of hating my Nexus 6 right now.

Leo: We all need to keep our Nexus 6 right now in case we get an invite from Project Fi.

Myriam: Exactly.

Jeff: I've been thinking about that. I'm not ready to switch over my regular phone number to Project Fi.

Leo: You lose your Google Voice capabilities.

Jeff: I don't use that that much. But what I'll have to do is move my account over to my Nexus Fi and then do Project Fi on my Nexus 6. It'll be very confusing.

Leo: The camera is not good. The screen is only adequate. When you compare the screen to the Q HD screens on the Galaxy S6 and the G4, these screens are spectacular.

Myriam: There's a lot of debate right now as to whether the GS6—let's put it this way. The GS6 and the G4 in terms of camera....

Leo: I think they compare favorably to an iPhone.

Myriam: Absolutely. Better. But, there's a lot of debate whether the GS6 or the G4 are better. I believe the G4 is better. It's not by a little bit, even.

Leo: We don't know when availability will be.

Jeff: What's the price point?

Leo: We don't know.

Myriam: We can expect about 650. 100-200 on contract.

Leo: You don't think it will be a 300-feature phone deluxe?

Myriam: No.

Leo: It's got laser focus. It's faster, right?

Myriam: What I like about the phone in particular, it's pretty bulletproof.

Leo: Look at the detail.

Myriam: It's pretty bulletproof, like the iPhone, it has incredible amounts of low-light performance, and it has a manual mode, which I really love.

Leo: Go back to the camera. Same picture on an iPhone. It's pretty close.

Myriam: The iPhone is really good here too. What I like here is... This is a 3 axis OIS. It's a rotation OIS. This one does... It has a manual mode that gives you raw and an Instagram that gives you shutter speed. The GS6, you can't set shutter speed.

Leo: The iPhone is sagging.

Myriam: If you're into photography, the manual mode on this is killer.

Leo: People when they buy Smartphones this day, the camera... if not the number one feature, is right up there.

Mark: I think after your decision between Android and iPhone—

Leo: Camera is the next thing. I can't wait until they release this.

Jeff: Mine is what version of Android it has.

Leo: People are saying that this Memory Leak issue is a Galaxy S6 feature. Supposedly, Samsung has a fix that they're pushing out ahead of 5.2.

Jeff: Lots of folks in the chat room are saying they don't have a problem with Nexus 7. Neither do I.

Leo: I don't have a problem with Nexus 7. My One PlusOne with Oxygen seemed fine. I find that the Galaxy S6 is slower to respond over time. After a day or two you really want to re-boot. Here's a low-light shot. Wow. Try that with your iPhone. You can set it for a one second... Holy cow! Where do I get one? You got this from where?

Myriam: Again, having shutter speed control.... this is from LG. Shutter speed control is critical if you want to do some—

Leo: Look at the detail! See that? That's that little tiny yellow dot there.

Myriam: Remember. Hand-held 1 second exposure at 200 ISO.

Leo: That's crazy. It looks really good. I'm going to throw away my DSR.

Myriam: As you know, I've been a professional journalist for a long time doing live blogging of big conferences. With the DSLR, with a big lens, I did the live-blog of Microsoft Bild with this, and it was web-quality usable, no problem. All morning long. I've never been able to use a Smartphone to live blog ever. This was worthy of point and shoot. There we are. This is where we're at.

Leo: So frustrating. You can't buy a phone before another one comes out that's better. Do you think this is the one for the year?

Myriam: We're good for a while.

Jeff: What's going to happen at IO?

Leo: It's just two weeks away now.

Myriam: I hate to say this. As much as I've used the Nexus as my main phone since the Nexus One, I've never been satisfied with the imaging experience. I've managed to extract incredible photos off of those phones, because I know what I'm doing. Honestly, Google does not know how to handle imaging on their devices with their default camera or their imaging chain.

Leo: It's about software, isn't it? What Apple does with the iPhone. It's software. Aren't they both using Sony sensors? It's not—

Myriam: They made a conscious effort to pick good hardware. Good pixels, good sensors, good optics.

Leo: But the iPhone is an 8-mega pixel camera. That might not be a bad thing because the pixels are bigger than the high mega-pixel...

Myriam: This is actually a 1.35 micron, the iPhone is 1.5 micron, the old HTCs were two mega pixels.

Leo: The S6 is one Micron.

Myriam: 1.1. Yeah. It's the same as a lot of the high mega pixels.

Leo: I remember talking to Jon Peter Broner on Triangulation. Nokia engineer, great photographer. This was two years ago. He said the future of photography is computation. It isn't about sensors. This is when the 1020 had just come up. This is a 41 mega pixel camera phone.

Myriam: A lot of people have made actual comparisons. Steve Lynchfiedl who is a British camera-photography expert has taken these two phones side by side and has admitted that Microsoft is no longer in the running at this point.

Leo: You've got to feel bad for Microsoft. What are they going to do? They bought these great Lumia phones. We hear that there's going to be a new Lumia coming out towards the end of the year when Windows Phone 10 comes out. They've also said that they're going to make it possible to take your iOS app and your Android app and record it over to Windows phone. My question is if you're an Android developer, are you going to say, "Oh great. I get the giant Windows phone!" Are you going to bother? Even if it takes a day, is it worth it?

Jeff: I'm mad enough to get stuff moved from iOS to Android. I can't get the New York Times app, I can't get articles on Facebook. It's irritating.

Mark: I think the next big battle is going to be over India. That's such a huge market that's just coming online.

Leo: Didn't we say China was the next big battle?

Mark: China is there. China is established.

Leo: Sales are going down. Aren't they?

Mark: Growth is slowing down, because they've reached a peak.

Leo: So it's India now?

Mark: It's India now.

Myriam: Not only that, but Nokia has huge...

Leo: The brand is big in a lot of those countries, but it's not the Lumia brand, it's the Nokia brand.

Myriam: When I talk to the journalists I know, the people who have done the switch, they understand that Microsoft is now Nokia or whatever.

Leo: Windows Phone has done odd markets like Russia where the iPhone wasn't available for a long time. India, Southeast Asia.

Myriam: I think we're missing a big chunk here that's super critical. Low-end Android is a terrible experience. Low-end Windows phone isn't a terrible experience. It's not much different than high-end Windows phone.

Jeff: Myriam, have you tried Android One?

Myriam: I have not tried an N1 device yet. I have tried Moto G and Moto E.

Leo: What's that?

Jeff: That's the cheap version in India and now Turkey. It's designed to be workable in a cheaper phone.

Leo: It's a challenge though. They're selling a lot of Android phones, but they don't run very well.

Myriam: Jeff, I agree with you that there are some, the Moto G and E are good examples of awesome experiences on Android at low-price, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Jeff: I agree. What I'm also curious about though, is the Android One is designed for that. When I was in India, I tried to find an Android One phone and I couldn't. I'd love to buy one just to see what it's like.

Leo: We could stipulate that Windows Phone gives you the best low-end experience.

Mark: I think their low end is a significantly higher bar than Android's low-end. You can put Android onto 17 dollars in components. Microsoft tends to not let OEMs do that.

Leo: What is the cheapest...?

Myriam: There are some that are not available in the US, like the 400 series. You don't want those, trust me. You look at the specs on those and you're like, wow. Trying to time-warp back to ten years ago.

Leo: We take a bit of a hit, because we pretty much focus on high-end Smartphones, the flagship phones, because that's what's interesting.

Mark: That's where the profit is for these companies. Apple loves it. Samsung loves the premium phones.

Leo: Why is India important?

Mark: India is important because it's a massive market of potentially a billion users.

Leo: If you only make ten bucks a phone, you get a lot of users.

Mark: You get a huge foothold in the biggest market. It's why China was important five years ago.

Jeff: You don't make money on phones, in Google's case. You make it on services.

Leo: What's next, after India, out of curiosity?

Mark: A lot of countries in Southeast Asia are starting to come on about the same time. India has been the success story that everyone has been waiting for around the same time as China. Government issues, bureaucratic issues.

Leo: Is their infrastructure an issue? Really these Smartphones require Internet infrastructure.

Mark: They got 3G. Now they're starting to come along across the country. China is already doing LTE across the country. They're rolling it out into rural areas of China. India isn't even close. Infrastructure will be an issue, and mobile video is going to be non-existent in India for some time. It'll be behind the rest of the world. It's still going to be a massive market for companies to sell phones. Microsoft is looking there. Android is doing this Android One initiative, which started in India. Apple makes exceptions where they'll sell old models that they don't sell anywhere else. They'll sell them to India because they know they need a cheaper model to get a foothold there.

Myriam: That's where all the 5Cs ended up.

Mark: They still sell the 4s and the 4 even.

Leo: I talk to people all the time who have iPhone 4s in the United States of America, my friends. Why is Microsoft investing in submarine cables to Asia? What is that you just held up, Jeff?

Jeff: That's the latest iPhone I own. I've been on Android for that long.

Leo: You've got one, that's all that matters.

Jeff: While we're on India, real quick. The Hindustan times, three weeks ago, from our media perspective, the opportunity for India to leapfrog the web world to mobile world, they can really stand apart and new ways to look at media and services. That's huge for us. We're still stuck in a web world.

Leo: I need to understand this better. Maybe Mark can teach us. It's a very different world where power infrastructure doesn't exist. People use phones as their primary computer. A lot of banking is done on the phone. That's your bank.

Mark: Those two issues you brought up, power and banking are particularly interesting in Kenya where charging your phone... they'll walk for half an hour to get to a place with a reliable charging station. There's a service in Kenya called Empaca. One of their telecom companies offers a payment system that works with your phone bill using text messaging to pay people back and forth. They were years ahead of us. We're now starting to come on to Square Cash, whereas Kenya has been using this for years.

Leo: Fascinating. Where does India stand in that continuum?

Mark: I think, like Jeff said, they're bypassing PCs. Many people there have never used a computer before, and their first computers are these Smartphones that they're starting to get.

Jeff: Mark, have you covered Flipcart?

Mark: It's the Amazon of India. Now Amazon is starting to invest a ton of resources into India because they see this massive e-commerce market coming online. It's billions of dollars.

Leo: It's hard enough to understand these new markets and act appropriately. It took years to figure out how to deal with China.

Mark: China and India recognize emergent superpowers that want to self-contain the benefits to an extent. If you're an American company who wants to work in India, you need to find a local subsidiary that you can work with. It's not as easy to break in as it has been for China.

Leo: Let's take a break and come back with more. We've got a lot to talk about. Verizon purchases AOL. AOL got another company to buy dial up service. I guess AT&T and Direct TV also are getting together. Lots to talk about. Say again?

Myriam: Frolicking in the sun.

Leo: Is that what they're doing?

Myriam: Yeah. It's summer.

Leo: We're frolicking in the sun! It's the lusty month of May. Did you ever hear Jonathon Colton on that subject? Its May it's May, outdoor lovemaking begins today.

Mark: Is that the ad?

Leo: No. This is an inter-mezzo. Mark Milian is here from Bloomberg Business Week. Myriam Joire, a great friend from, and Jeff Jarvis: not only from This Week in Google, but he actually has a job teaching journalism to young people.

Jeff: Corrupting them.

Leo: Corrupting them.

Myriam: They need it. Young people today... I tell you.

Leo: I started getting the New York Times, but I can't read it. The print is too small. The Internet has spoiled me. I hit command 0 and command 1 and it's still too small.

Myriam: It doesn't work.

Leo: I'm going to stop getting the print edition. I was all excited because we had such a great experience on our honeymoon of opening the coffee...

Jeff: Leo, that was not the New York Times.

Leo: The honeymoon was just a halo high. But you get home, and Lisa says, "They're printing it smaller!" I said, "I don't think they are." My clothes are shrinking too. Our show today brought to you by Braintree. Talk about mobile payments. Braintree has brought together every possible way to pay, so if you're creating a mobile application with a few lines of code, you can integrate Braintree in, and it's incredible. That's why Uber uses it and Lyft. I like that. If Uber and Lyft uses something, it's got to be good. GitHub started with Braintree payments. They've grown with GitHub. They've scaled from your first dollar to your billionth dollar. Living social uses them. Everybody. How can you pay? Your customers can use Apple Pay, they can use credit cards. They can use Bitcoin. PayPal. I want you to try it out. They've got a sandbox. You can see what your app would look like with Braintree payments included in. It works with all the languages. It's making payments in these apps seamless and magical, and you need it in your app, and you can get it now. In fact, this is such a good deal. You get the first 50,000 in transactions fee-free when you go to You know your users want these payment methods. Support it with a few lines of code. Microsoft has released information about how many different skews they'll be of Windows 10. There's going to be mobile, there's going to be enterprise. There's going to be education and mobile enterprise and three different Internet of Things versions. Do it like Apple does. Release one version and have it work everywhere. Get a Chromebook.

Myriam: I'm disappointed. Actually, a bunch of us came up with this great idea, which is to make a version of... Edge is the new browser, right?

Leo: Yeah.

Myriam: They should make a version of Windows called Windows Edge, which is Chrome OS. It's the same thing. It gives you a well-managed, secure, and updated version of Windows.

Leo: You have the choice, would you rather use that or Chrome?

Myriam: I would use Chrome, but in terms of strategy, this would be a great way in.

Leo: People use Windows to run Windows applications.

Myriam: You'd be surprised. Some people still buy Windows machines thinking they need all the functionality.

Leo: They don't. That's why we tell them to buy Chrome OS.

Jeff: At some point, the over-complication of this, which is the Microsoft way, hurts them. Don't worry about all this stuff. Buy one thing and be done with it.

Leo: We had started saying July for Windows 10. Turns out that was just one vendor and Microsoft has not confirmed that. They still say this summer, which could be any time between now and September 20. At some point... Here's one thing they're doing. They're taking in hand the Windows Phone updates and they're saying, "We're going to do it. From now on, all Windows Phones will be updated at the same time. Can they get that by carriers? That's something that's been killing Android.

Myriam: They can totally bypass the carriers.

Leo: They can?

Myriam: The carriers are going to be kicking and screaming like they always do, especially Verizon and AT&T who want to be in control. We need to test this on our network. blah blah. We all know it's BS. Hey.

Leo: Is it BS? I can understand why Samsung might say...

Myriam: It's complete BS. It's never been tested by AT&T. That's why standards exist.

Leo: If you want to avoid fragmentation, get a Windows phone. Another great reason.

Myriam: That's ironic, I think. That was supposed to be ironic.

Leo: I don't care about Edge that much. I see some stories here. We could talk about Edge. This is the browser that replaces Internet Explorer.

Myriam: You mean Windows Edge.

Leo: I like the idea of Windows Edge.

Myriam: It's cool, right?

Leo: They do a free-version of Windows for OEMs or 9 inch screens called Windows with Bing.

Myriam: Oh Bing. So lost.

Leo: I guess we need to talk about the big merger or acquisition.

Jeff: They're not equals.

Leo: What do you think it was worth in its heyday? 4.4 billion sounds like a lot of money. It's probably not, right?

Jeff: Not at all. Matthew had the numbers on TWiG.

Myriam: It was 200 billion or something.

Leo: That was a merger. The Time Warner/AOL thing was a merger. We don't know exactly....

Mark: AOL buys Time Warner for 162 billion.

Leo: That was Time Warner; they got rid of that, right?

Myriam: Weren't they valued at over 200 billion at one point?

Leo: probably, but that's with Time Warner. 4.4 billion. It's not a Fire sale, the question is....

Jeff: It's a good exit. Tim Armstrong did a good exit here. Excellent.

Leo: Yeah. It's better than being bankrupt. 50 a share. The question everybody is saying is what's going to happen to the AOL content properties. Seems to be some consensus that Verizon wants AOL. This is not what AOL says. I think most of us believe that Verizon is buying it for the mobile ad technology and the content. We talked about this Wednesday on TWiG. The content will probably be sold off, including Engadget, Tech Crunch.

Jeff: The Huffington Post.

Leo: You still think that, Jeff?

Jeff: Yeah. I think so. It may take a while.

Leo: What do you think, Mark?

Mark: I think the whole value of AOL, as a tech company is that they had this whole audience, which was based largely on their editorial.

Leo: What does Verizon want this audience for?

Mark: To sell advertisements to them. The same reason AOL has blogs. Who is going to buy Verizon/AOL ad technology when Google and Yahoo are far and away the leaders.

Leo: We should stop thinking of Verizon as an Internet Service provider or a sell phone company and start thinking of them as a content company.

Mark: It's like Time Warner before they split cable off. Comcast just bought NBC.

Leo: Comcast is a successful example of that, aren't they? Comcast is a content company.

Mark: Arguably starting to turn NBC around.

Leo: They own movies, television; they're the delivery medium. Is this Verizon trying to be Comcast? As if anybody would want to be Comcast.

Jeff: There are plenty who want to be Comcast.

Myriam: I think it's...

Leo: You used to work at Engadget. How is that going to work? I feel like the editorial team at Engadget and Tech Crunch are going to feel a bit of pressure.

Myriam: I know these guys really well. Michael Gormer is editor in chief at Engadget. He will walk before they try to tell him what to write and how to write it. I'm not worried about them caving in in any way. I'm worried about if they have to walk, what Engadget as a brand is going to become. It's possible we'll see Engadget as it is today with an independent editorial voice surrounded by Verizon ads on the entire page. That would be terrible, but it's possible. That would stink, because it wouldn't work very well to read unbiased editorial content surrounded by Verizon ads. I'm not worried about these guys. As Jeff thinks, perhaps they'll get spun off. If they don't get spun off, I think they're going to fight tooth and nail to keep their editorial freedom until they have to walk. I hope they don't.

Leo: A lot of attention played to the idea that Verizon wanted the video operations. Huffington Post, Engadget, Tek Crunch all have video.

Mark: They're all associated with those brands, though.

Leo: Yes. They wouldn't dump the brands. Verizon has a deal within the NFL, but is it really good for the Verizon network to have video? If I were a phone company, I wouldn't want people playing a lot of video on the phones.

Myriam: Are we talking about AOL on? The crappy player that is imbedded in every Engadget video ad? Trust me, that thing is the biggest turd in the Universe. You should not even consider that an asset. We were screaming to get AOL to let us use YouTube. From a workflow perspective, it's such a nightmare.

Jeff: I think YouTube is going to open itself up more. I was with these news guys, a lot of demands for the YouTube player to be opened up. Everybody hates their players. Everybody.

Leo: We're moving to a new player that I think is quite good. A lot of porn sites use it. Well, challenging environment...

Myriam: You know that porn drives the technology...

Leo: We talked about this last week. Dvorak says it's not true. The JW player, which they say is the most popular player in the world. Which they'll use on the new TWiT set. It's nice. One of the things it does if you pay a little extra is Chromecast. You can Chromecast with this.

Jeff: That's nice.

Leo: Yeah. I don't know. What they're saying is they want the YouTube player code?

Jeff: More of an ability to white label a little bit.

Mark: So they can host their own videos on their server.

Leo: Why would you want that?

Jeff: Because it's a better player, and because Google could sell in ads when it could have a higher value ad.

Leo: Google could do it because it would give them more outlets for their ads.

Myriam: As a content-creator, the biggest issue was when we had a trade show and we had to get a video up in a quick amount of time, YouTube is sometimes problematic. It takes a little while to be live. One of the things we were able to work out with AOL on was to get priority. If we post something, we could set a flag and say that this has to go up now. Having that ability through YouTube would be fantastic, even if you had to pay them for it. I think that would be a great thing, and then some kind of revenue share set up. It's good for individuals like me who have their own YouTube channel to make money off the ads from YouTube, but for AOL it was an issue. They said we don't make money off you. YouTube and Google has to figure out a way for bigger companies to make money through YouTube, as well as themselves make money through YouTube at the same time, and for these companies to have special packages to have editors who work there click a button that says this needs to go live now. The moment the bits hit the stream, they need to be live.

Mark: YouTube needs to pull a Facebook instant article thing. Facebook cut those individual deals with their nine-chosen publishers and they let them serve their own ads or they let Facebook do it.

Jeff: Exactly, Mark. The point here, what came out of this conversation is that imbedability is a next phase here. YouTube has been the model for years and years, and it still amazes me that the rest of media hasn't gone that way. Good embeddable experience is where you have some data and control over your advertising, an opportunity for more advertising. We're going to see a lot of that coming up, I think.

Myriam: I think if Google can crack this with YouTube, I honestly think that all these other video serving platforms are gone. There's no need for them anymore.

Leo: Vimeo goes away? Daily Motion goes away?

Myriam: Maybe not Vimeo. It caters to a slightly different... Vimeo you see a lot of short films.

Leo: There's no ads on Vimeo. Certainly an advantage to that. They might go away because there's no money.

Myriam: I think right now there is a missing chunk out there for the Engadgets and the Tek Crunch and the Bloombergs of the world to use YouTube in a really compelling way. YouTube gives you that audience and that search ability. I like to go on YouTube as user and browse around, get suggestions, and do searches that give me relevant content. That's what Google has done so well with everything. Searching.

Leo: Somebody in the chatroom gave me a press release from AOL. The first cross screen programmatic advertising platform. This is what Verizon bought, which is called One by AOL. It puts ads everywhere. Global, cross platform. Maybe that's the value. That's worth 4.4 billion alone. It took them 4 years to build. It's time tested with all the AOL content.

Jeff: The strongest point, I keep coming back to it, is he built Google's US ad structure.

Leo: He knows ads.

Jeff: He knows ads. Yes.

Mark: That came from an acquisition, this technology. In 2013, AOL paid 400 million for it. 400 million is no drop in the bucket for a company like AOL.

Leo: You were in Helsinki. How was that? You were only there for a day.

Jeff: I was there for a day and a half. It was worth going. Something really interesting happening right now. Google, as we talked about on TWiG before, wants to make nice with European publishers, and European publishers are filled with techno-panic. They did a deal with 8 old world old style publishers to do some innovation. It was good that finally there was a bit of effort in some groups. Facebook, frankly, leapfrogged them and Facebook came out with instant articles. 9 publishers instead of 8. We're going to put you in the stream. We have a beautiful tool; we're going to let you keep 100% of the ad revenue you sell, with 70% of the ad revenue that Facebook sells. Hell of a deal. This was called News Geist unconference. About 150 media people in Helsinki. Very good discussions, very serious discussions. It gives me some hope that this ability to leapfrog each other puts media people in a decent position. We can come up with mutually beneficial deals. Everybody is going to say I don't trust Facebook, I don't trust Google. As I always say, come up with the right business terms. You know me, I've talked for a long time about this idea of imbedability, so we had a serious discussion about trying to open up what Facebook did to every publisher and every site. Maybe Google can help. Who knows?

Leo: I imagine there's a lot of talk about that.

Jeff: There's a lot of talk about that. There was a section about what Google could do, which focused more on Google news, which was interesting. People in the rooms without dissent said Buy Twitter. Google should buy Twitter. Others in the room (I was among them) pushed for Google news API. This was the kind of discussion we had there. I think it was extremely healthy that we have this game of leapfrog going on right now. We have major tech platforms that see the importance of media and news and want to play along. There's lots of issues. There's issues of trust. Will Facebook pull the rug out from under us? That's a business term. Issues of whether Facebook will take responsibility for the news and have the courage of a publisher to keep up controversial and difficult news among sensors and tyrants. My biggest issue is whether we will get data to be able to build our own relationships of relevance and value with people. It's just the beginning. In all fairness, the German publishers I made fun of for making life difficult for Google, to a certain extent, that brought Google to the table if not their knees, at it brought Facebook to the table. Now there's some serious discussion going on. It was a heartening event.

Leo: I'm trying to find an example of this new Facebook news format.

Jeff: There is an instant articles Facebook account that they curate. I haven't signed up, because I have Android.

Mark: Individual news articles that they want to host within the Facebook system. On launch day, the New York Times put a single article through. It's not by any means ubiquitous.

Jeff: It is beautiful. It's really a nice little...

Leo: 13 steps to instantly improve your day. I picked something trivial.

Myriam: It's got cats!

Leo: It's got cats. Nothing wrong with that. Swipe right and look at those ladies on their wedding day. You can use the tilt. Wow. Here's the bride. Here's the groom seeing her for the first time. WHAT THE HELL? There's the bride.

Jeff: What that would be useful for is a panorama.

Leo: Here's the bride, and here's the groom seeing her for the sixth time.

Jeff: That is so BuzzFeed.

Leo: Here's the bride. Here's the groom.

Jeff: Are we going to have a groom and groom or bride and bride anywhere?

Leo: He's Asian. That's diversity. Scroll down and watch this majestic beast who is living the way she wants to and doesn't care about your rules. Her name is Marney. There's an animal. I don't know what it is.

Mark: It looks like there's a lot of custom work involved in putting this together.

Leo: How hard is this to do?

Jeff: That's the CMS.

Mark: The more these Internet companies are asking publishers to spend time developing this particular version of this article for our app, the same thing that Snapchat is doing where they're asking a selective group of 8 publishers to create custom channels every day.

Jeff: That's why I'm arguing that we publishers need to get together and come up with standards for imbedability. Otherwise, you're exactly right. You're going to end up reading 20 stories with 20 platforms and 20 CMS. It's going to be... talk about fragmentation. The reaction from media people is predictable. I don't trust Facebook. We can't not deal with this. Facebook is already there, folks. It's already 70% of clicks and traffic to news sites. We're going to have to deal with a new distributed world for media. Vimeo figured it out.

Myriam: Maybe it's Flipboard's job to make that happen.

Jeff: Right. It could be Flipboard, it could be Facebook. It could be a startup. I work with a startup. There's a lot of players that could be doing this.

Leo: If you say Flipboard, it reminds me of Zineo, which was a magazine platform. The reason you go to Facebook is that's where the readers are.

Myriam: In terms of creating a standard, they have the technical know how.

Mark: They convince Facebook and Snap chat and everybody to actually use this stuff.

Myriam: It's great. As Jeff said, it's dangerous because it's Facebook. They're going to screw us.

Jeff: That's my point. We have to get past that. There is an effort in dialog and serious negotiation. The problem is that we're in a position of weakness. We're in a slightly stronger position now because they want to make friends. My answer to everybody who says I don't trust Facebook, fine give me the business terms. If you make people sit down and give you the business terms, a lot of people don't do it because they keep repeating again and again. I don't like them. That doesn't work anymore. You can't say that anymore. We may not come to business terms, we may disagree, but that's the level we should be having this discussion in.

Mark: It sounds like they got there in this first round. They got to some very favorable business terms. These 9 select publishers that they're working with. Sara Frier at Bloomberg Business did an interesting article about these deals. She did the math and found that the average age of these 9 publishers that Facebook is working with is 107, and that includes BuzzFeed.

Leo: BuzzFeed brought the average down a little bit.

Mark: It's interesting, because a lot of these technology companies work with Vox and Gawker and some of these new media companies. Facebook took a different approach where they hand selected these venerable...

Leo: These were companies acquisitioned by Facebook. Not the other way around.

Jeff: Facebook included BuzzFeed.

Mark: The Atlantic, and the New York Times...

Jeff: You're right. Google's deal was only with old publishers in old Europe. Nature stuff from Nat Geo is popular on Facebook. BuzzFeed will do anything. The Guardian and the New York Times, Built, which is the largest newspaper in Europe a tabloid, the fact that Built signed up for this Facebook deal is a big deal.

Leo: More importantly, you played a lot of werewolf. That is a fun game. It's really fun, you should play it.

Jeff: That's been the mood of technology versus media. Mistrust and killing each other.

Leo: The key to Werewolf is being a good liar about who is the werewolf and who is not. Google is going to take itself driving cars into the public starting this summer. You'll be able to see the Google self-driving cars driving around Mountain View. It's not going to be the Lexuses with the Lidar view. It's going to be these funny looking cars that look like the Tonka cars you had when you were a kid.

Jeff: I would kill to take a tour in one. Wouldn't you?

Leo: I'm said. They're putting a temporary accelerator break at the steering wheel, so if you see those driving around, you don't go Oh my god!

Myriam: It's a little more complicated than that. All the testing they've done is at Ames, which is federal land. The rules of California don't apply. The rules of California are saying that to get their autonomous licenses they need an accelerator, break, and steering wheel.

Leo: so they put those in for California.

Myriam: It's not just temporary. It's until they can tweak the laws. I don't know. It's interesting to see how people will take to seeing these on the road.

Leo: This is smart, right? It's all about PR at this point. From a purely rational point of view, humans are terrible drivers.

Myriam: Yes.

Leo: If all the cars in the road were autonomous, there would be fewer accidents, there would be fewer traffic jams. There would be fewer cars, because you wouldn't need to own a car necessarily. Call one when you want one. I remember talking years ago to someone at Google who was doing autonomous vehicles. What this is really about is eliminating car ownership. If you've got a fleet of autonomous vehicles of all kinds and you can just push a button, I now understand why Uber is worth 50 billion dollars, if you can push a button on an app and an autonomous vehicle would show up, it would take you where you want to go. Let's say you want to go camping. It would take you to the high sierra, where an autonomous RV would be waiting for you

Jeff: I wrote about this in What Would Google Do? If you became a get you there company rather than a sell you a car company... you want to go on a date? You come in a Mercedes. You ant to pick up the kid? You come with a minivan. You want to go camping? Get a camper.

Leo: It's crazy. We all own multiple cars, many of which sit in a driveway or a garage and don't get used. From a purely rational point of view, this all makes sense. From an emotional point of view, they've got a lot of explaining to do. They've got PR to do. They've got to convince legislatures, they've got to convince users. Who is going to be the first person to get into a car with new steering wheel?

Jeff: I'll do it.

Leo: OK, Jeff. Would you go over a bridge in one of them?

Jeff: No.

Mark: In the bay area that severely limits your ability to go around.

Myriam: Jeff, tell us why, no?

Jeff: I'm bridge phobic. The Delphi Audi that went across, the story said that they were scared. When it hit the Ben Franklin Bridge, the car was confused by metal.

Myriam: I covered that car at South by Southwest. I was wondering if they were going to make it problem-free.

Leo: There have been accidents, but according to Google, they were all human caused errors.

Jeff: All errors in the world are human errors.

Leo: You're the error, my friends.

Jeff: You're the error. Machines will kill you.

Mark: I don't think most people argue with the logic that machines could perform better than humans in a normal scenario. The fear is that you'll have a Siri moment and your car will drive off the road.

Myriam: I agree with you. I really think they need some manual controls. Airplanes today fly autonomously. The pilots are there to land and take off. Those are the critical phases of flight. I don't see why you can't have manual control at critical—the Semi that was launched at the Hoover Dam, the first autonomous Semi is Road Eagle in Nevada. Its freightliner, that thing is designed to cruise on the highway. It follows the lane, follows the cars in front of it. As soon as it needs to get off the highway or get past something, it gives control back to the driver.

Mark: Elon Musk has talked about this. It should be autopilot, not self-driving or autonomous.

Myriam: I think he's right.

Mark: People need to think about it in that context where planes have it. It's a good thing to rely on when you can't focus 100% on the road at all times, but you still need people to help out if the vehicle is in a lot of traffic.

Myriam: Look for freightliner autonomous truck Nevada.

Leo: I did. All I got was a press release.

Jeff: You raise an interesting point here. It says that the autonomous car has to know whether the cars around it are driven by humans or computers. It it's computers, if they go closer they can communicate, if it's humans they can go stay away. They're idiots.

Mark: I think roadwork is a situation where there's detours. You can't rely wholly on the map. I know they've got those infrared sensors on the top, there's certain situations where you're driving and you don't think about it. It would be quite complicated for a computer to figure out.

Leo: Now, Jeff would you be willing to jump in these and run around the town?

Jeff: In a big truck?

Leo: Anything. Actually, I'd rather be in a big truck. At least if I tangled with somebody I'd win.

Myriam: You've talked me down. I thought this would be cool. This is what Google said: "We didn't put a steering wheel in there. People freak out and make mistakes. It's better to say you're out of luck. Go for the ride, let them take control." Somebody in the chatroom asked me when we started talking about this: Whom would you trust in black ice or 8 inches of snow? I'd trust the auto car. We think we're better drivers than we are.

Myriam: Google's software has been super buggy forever.

Leo: Like the hacker who said I hacked into the entertainment system on the plane and I was able to get it to turn right.

Jeff: I refused to read that before I got on a plane last night.

Leo: that's an interesting story. Apparently the FBI is investigating. His name is Chris Roberts. He's with One World Laps, he's a security researcher. He got on a flight last month on United Airlines...

Myriam: United. ha.

Leo: I don't think it's the airline!

Jeff: I defend United.

Leo: He told the FBI in February that he had hacked the in-flight entertainment system on an airplane, overwrote code on the plane's computer. While flying, he was able to issue a climb command and make the plane briefly change course. You can imagine how the pilots felt.

Jeff: Through one engine, so it was also...

Myriam: I find that hard to believe. I don't think these things are inter-connected on airplanes today.

Leo: I think there would be an air gap on the entertainment system...

Jeff: Entertainment systems are so awful. When I was on the plane today, it kept crashing. The guy sitting next to me was a flight attendant and kept trying to re-boot the system.

Leo: I saw Lennox on Virgin America. They use Lennox on their... it doesn’t make me feel better about the whole thing. He says he obtained physical access to the network through this seat electronic boxer. If you're sitting in the right seat, you'll see the box that is holding the system. These are installed two to a row in the passenger seat of some planes. He removed the cover by wiggling and squeezing a box, attached an Ethernet cable to the box, plugged in his laptop. Nobody saw this.

Mark: Nobody saw this guy with wires hanging off his seat?

Leo: No. I'm just fixing the plane. Don't mind me. He then used a.... If he said I'm here to upload some new movies to the in-flight entertainment system, they'd go OK. Go ahead. He used default IDs and passwords to gain access to the flight entertainment system, and from there was able to get into the rest of it. Reaction from the Security community have been harsh. First of all, they're shocked he attempted to tamper with a plane while flying. I find it really hard to believe, but if that's the case he deserves to go to jail. You cannot promote the idea that security research benefits humanity while defending research that endangered hundreds of innocents. My biggest concern, said Roberts, is the multiple conversations I've had with the FBI. I'm obviously concerned that these were held behind closed doors. Apparently they're no longer held private. Oh gee, his privacy was violated. Anyway. This guy has been investigating security for 6 years, after he got a hold of flight manuals and wiring diagrams for six planes. This is what hackers do. You don't want to do the planes in flight.

Mark: He's got to be on the do not fly list.

Jeff: Oh yeah.

Myriam: That guy is screwed.

Leo: No kidding. How long before the TSA says if you've got cables we have to...

Myriam: We all use them and I always bring one along.

Leo: Is that a cable I see in your bag there? You're going to have to remove that.

Jeff: When I flew in New Delhi, I had my One Plus cable, which is pretty. What is this? USB cord. They said, "Oh. That's cool."

Leo: Oh, okay.

Jeff: Alright.

Leo: He did tweet about it, so I think that his protest that the FBI released the dialog is maybe a little hollow. His tweet, "I find myself in a 737 800, let's see, box EIFIC Satcom, should we start playing with the Ecast messages? Pass oxygen on anyone? :)".

Mark: The thing in his favor on that tweet is that nobody can understand it.

Leo: The thing is that if you understand what he is saying is that's terrifying!

Myriam: I can actually understand what he is saying.

Leo: That's terrifying. Although deploying the oxygen masks is not as bad as turning the plane.

Jeff: But there is a limited amount of oxygen on the plane, so if he uses up the oxygen then yeah.

Myriam: I don't even think that he was talking about turning on the oxygen, just putting up the message on the console in the cockpit.

Leo: Yeah, to see if the pilot comes running out. Hey. Anyway, that is germane to the autonomous car thing because, of course, there will be people who will attempt to hack.

Myriam: I'm not actually worried about that. I'm more concerned about the reliability and stability of these systems without a steering wheel and controls to back up in these extreme situations that Mark described like construction zones. Look, I'm the first one to trust computers, but I also do believe that this is going to take a while to get really sorted out. 

Mark: Google has been making smartphones for a lot longer than they have been making cars, and they still can't make one that doesn't reboot every once in a while. 

Myriam: Exactly.

Leo: Okay, now I'm scared.

Myriam: In phones Apple is the same. It doesn't really matter who you pick here.

Leo: No, you are right. If there is software then there is human error. Software is controlling your car. See, I was all excited about this, now I don't ever want to do it.

Myriam: I think autopilot. Let's get past the autopilot phase. Actually when we are comfortable with the auto pilot...

Leo: I can't have a nice meal, I can't read a book, because I have to keep my hands hovered.

Myriam: No, it will give you a few seconds. The truck will come to a safe stop if there is no human intervention. That's the fail safe.

Mark: What I understand about Tesla's autopilot is that it will do most things for you. You can intervene pretty easily, but I think that it's...

Leo: This is going to have the impact of increasing distracted driving because you are now going to say, oh, I don't have to worry about it so much.

Jeff: You are not driving.

Leo: But you are expected to be there paying attention. I have used the self-parking thing on a Ford car to crash into a car behind me.

Jeff: No, really?

Leo: Yes.

Myriam: You did?

Leo: It was fortunately on the Ford test track. Here is video of it.

Jeff: Oh, that's right. That's right. 

Leo: No, it worked fine. We were doing a thing with Ford. We were on the Ford test track, and he said, we were driving along and we had all of these cars lined up, and he said press the button that says look for a space. So I'm saying okay, and the thing goes beep when it passes a space that I can fit, which it was a big car, and he said, okay, now press button and take your hands off of the wheel. So the wheel goes, there it is, you found it, that was quick, thank you Jason.

Mark: Okay, let's watch this.

Leo: Turn up the audio Jason. So see that space? It's going to look for that space, and then I just follow the instructions and watch. My hands are off the wheel, and the wheel goes, and see that, its parallel parking me. It does a perfect job, with one exception. It didn't mention that once you are parked put on the brake because you are still rolling.

Mark: Oh, well, that's not your error.

Leo: That's my point. You trust the system and then you forget that you still have responsibility for a 3 ton vehicle. There are the engineers in the back in the car that I ran into laughing at me. 

Mark: I think that every auto maker should be required to send their autonomous software to the Leo test.

Leo: Yeah, I want to drive them all. If I can't crash it... I was so embarrassed. I felt like they set me up because they were sitting in the car laughing at me. I feel like they neglected to say, oh Leo, when you park put your foot on the brake and turn off the car. It's still idling, right?

Mark: Why wouldn't they just have it brake automatically?

Leo: That's what I thought. It's done. I'm here.

Myriam: Here is my question. Is it still drunk driving if the car is driving itself?

Leo: Oh, that's another thing, right? If it's driver assist? Drunk programmer, how about that?

Myriam: Drunk programming. Programming high on weed.

Leo: I'm just saying that the human is the weak link here. So this whole idea of well don't worry, it's just going to be driver assist, that's dangerous too.

Jeff: So Mark, as you said as a punchline, Google hasn't made a perfect phone yet, but who is more imperfect, Google or humans? At some point it is a mitigation question.

Mark: Yeah, that's Google's argument for sure. I'm excited about the prospects for autopilot, but it's just that I haven't fully come around to being comfortable with it.

Leo: No, I'm scared. You made me scared. I'm not going to do it now.

Mark: Sorry Leo.

Leo: Our show today, by the way, great panel, I love it. Jeff Jarvis, he is slumming from This Week in Google,, the City University of New York where he teaches journalism.

Jeff: Trying to stay calm. I'm trying to stay in that TWiT mode.

Leo: You didn't get angry.

Jeff: I'm not in that TWiG mode.

Leo: I will have to find something to get you angry. Also here, Myriam Joire, Tank Girl, @tnkgrl.

Myriam: Hello.

Leo: Hello, peace out. And, of course, from Bloomberg Business Week, and their global coverage,, it's Mark Milian. Great to have you all. Our show today is brought to you by By the way, congratulations Lynda. I've known Lynda Wyman since she started Lynda, before then when she was writing books on web design. We used to have her on The Screen Savers. Right about then she started, about 10 or 11 years ago she started, the ultimate online learning platform. She's done such a great job, over 3,000 on demand video courses, beautifully produced, complete with courseware, with transcripts so that you can search the text of the transcript and find exactly that point in the video, and videos about every subject. What is this, Fixing Large Rips, Tears, and Other Damage? Oh, in Photoshop. Okay, now I understand. They have got great courses for photography, for Photoshop, and also developing if you want to be a programmer developing apps in Swift. When new programs come out they work closely with the software companies so that they have day in date the training for the new software. They already have a course called Up and Running With Apple Watch. Exploring Photography, Exposure and Dynamic Range, Building a Mobile App with Angular JS and Iconic. That's state of the art. That's the latest stuff. Code Clinic is great. If you have not done the Code Clinic stuff, there are new installments now. JavaScript CR and Swift. Watch and learn from experts who are also great teachers, people who are working in the field. Stream thousands of video courses on demand on any device. Learn at your own pace. You can watch them from beginning to end if that is what you like, or you can watch bits and pieces. The nice thing about Lynda, when you pay for a subscription you don't pay for the course you pay for the whole site. You can dip in anywhere you want. I love that. I want you to try We have got a special deal for you actually, a 10 day trial. Lynda,, and the number 2, so lynda, and sign up for your free 10 day trial today. We love Lynda, and I know so many people who teach at Lynda. Some of the best people, many people who have been on our network, including, of course, the fabulous Bermon Roy. You have got to see his Photoshop stuff. for a free 10 day run of the place trial. 

So this is going to be, for the next couple of months, interesting. We have Google IO coming up in 2 weeks.

Myriam: I'm still not invited.

Jeff: You are not?

Leo: We only got 2 passes for it.

Myriam: It goes like this. When I was at Engadget of course I was invited. You know I kept a very strong relationship with the PR people there. I still know them very well, Lilian Coe. But, you know, they just say that they don't have invites, and I just don't buy it.

Leo: They told us 2 per publication.

Myriam: 2 per publication is fair enough.

Jeff: I whined separately.

Leo: So we got the 2 for Mike Elgan and Jason Howell. They are going. Jeff is coming out for that, so we are going to have TWiG the day before because it's Thursday and Friday this year for Google IO.

Myriam: I don't know, I might still get invited the last minute. Last year that's what happened. Last year I just got an invite in my inbox randomly a few days before. 

Jeff: Wow.

Leo: Isn't this just a developer conference? Why do you care?

Myriam: I care because it's an opportunity to play with the products and the features first and to be close to the Google crew so that you can ask them questions in person. As a journalist that is very important. Also, it's a networking opportunity. In person at a conference you get to see other journalists and tech pundits, and you know, basically talk about stuff and catch up. 

Mark: We also get a makeshift protest at last year's keynote. That was entertaining. 

Leo: What were they protesting?

Jeff: Oh, that's right.

Leo: Was that the Kevin Rose we hate you Google you are taking over San Francisco?

Mark: No, I think that those people were in front of Mascon Schneider with signs. This was some woman snuck in...

Leo: Oh, and she yelled.

Mark: She yelled, I guess there was like a Google lawyer who was buying up a bunch of real estate in the city and driving people out.

Leo: You are taking over!

Mark: Right, so security grabbed her.

Leo: So that might be fun. Remember a couple of years ago Sergey Brin parachuting in?

Mark: He jumped out of an airplane, yeah.

Myriam: That was fantastic marketing.

Leo: That was the, was that Glass?

Mark: That was Glass, yeah.

Leo: That was the debut of Glass?

Myriam: Oh how that's faded off into nothingness.

Leo: I feel like Google has learned a little bit of a lesson about giving away these expensive items. They drew in a bigger audience than they wanted of people who were looky lous trying to get free stuff, right?

Myriam: Yeah.

Leo: So that's why they won't let you in.

Myriam: Probably. I think that it's odd.

Leo: If you don't get in come here because we are going to cover the keynotes as we always do. I decided, I could have said that I want to go, but no, I'm sending Mike Elgan, our News Director, and Jason Howell, who is the host of All About Android and the producer of this show. Then I and Gina Trapani, who is not going, will anchor. I think that Aaron Newcomb will join us.

Myriam: I would be happy to join you.

Jeff: It's for 2.5 hours.

Leo: Only if you don't get in.

Myriam: Yeah, for sure.

Jeff: 2.5 hours.

Leo: Now, are they doing the 2 day thing again? Or just 1?

Jeff: It's one 2.5 hour keynote.

Mark: Yeah, one keynote.

Jeff: Go to the potty before it starts.

Mark: 2.5 hours is an optimistic view on those keynotes. Larry Page will just show up and talk for 2 hours about nothing.

Myriam: Microsoft Build was like 3 hours of keynotes.

Leo: We debated whether to cover that, and I'm glad that we didn't because the first hour and a half was like what are you talking about?

Myriam: It was boring.

Leo: But Google will make this interesting, right?

Myriam: Yeah, I think so. I'm looking forward to hearing some Chromebook news and some Google Android Wear news. 

Jeff: What do you think that the Chromebook news will be?

Myriam: I want to finally be able to run Android apps in a tab.

Leo: They are very close to that, aren't they?

Myriam: Standard EPKs.

Leo: That's not far off. That would be awesome.

Myriam: It's already kind of there, but it's not really there.

Leo: Yeah, you have to use 3rd party tools. Jeff did that, didn't you Jeff? Didn't you put Skype on your Chromebook?

Jeff: That worked well, didn't it?

Myriam: It didn't? It didn't work well?

Jeff: No, it went crap-o.

Leo: But there is no official way to do that yet, so that's not too hard to do. Isn't Android ARM? Well some Chromebooks are ARM and some are Intel?

Myriam: Yeah, that doesn't matter.

Leo: It doesn't matter because it's all in Java.

Myriam: I think that the Intel ones will just emulate the Dalvic stuff.

Leo: All you need is Java or Art.

Myriam: I can't remember what it is called now. It's called Art. Thank you. I don't know. I think that Google as always been an interesting conference to attend, so I find it, it's kind of an internal rant about being the media it being weird how they are trying to limit who can attend these days.

Leo: Well it's a developer conference. Now I have to say that last year wasn't all that. Did you go last year? It wasn't all that interesting.

Mark: Yeah, no it wasn't.

Myriam: Apple is smart. They do a developer conference and after the keynote they kick all of the journalists out. That's how you do it. If it's a developer conference then it's a developer conference.

Jeff: Alright, so who does the best one? You have F8, you have Apple, and you have Google.

Mark: Apple does the best. They have been doing by far the best.

Leo: They are still the best.

Myriam: I think that Apple's are the best ones, yeah.

Leo: Who has the best donuts? I'm just kidding.

Myriam: Microsoft used to because of Ballmer. He was a donut guy.

Leo: Ballmer was a donut guy. He's happy now. Apparently he's running up and down the court at the Clipper's games like he used to.

Myriam: Hey, not as happy as Forstall, who is now doing plays in Broadway.

Leo: What? 

Myriam: You haven't heard that?

Leo: Scott Forstall is doing Broadway plays? 

Myriam: Scott Forstall is directing Broadway musicals and plays.

Leo: Oh man, the ego of that man. That just shows you. I could do anything!

Myriam: That's right, because I'm Scott Forstall. I invented the friggin iPhone. Have you heard of it?

Leo: The Clipper's lost, so Ballmer ought to take a break for a while. Come back next year.

Mark: We did a cover story on Forstall several years ago, and one of the revelations was that he was a star in his school plays. He was always the star.

Leo: Oh, so maybe he is better at this.

Mark: That's why he was always on stage at these events. He just had that stage presence.

Myriam: That's why he likes hugh morphism so much.

Leo: He was the green velvet guy. 

Myriam: God I'm so glad we are past that.

Leo: I am too.

Myriam: The only place that there is for that is when you have the Urbane, where you have the watch faces that really have to look out on.

Leo: Everybody tells me about that Urbane. I wore it and everybody says that it's ugly

Myriam: It's ostentatious, isn't it?

Leo: I stopped wearing it.

Myriam: I still think that the 360 is the hottest thing. Isn't it?

Leo: The Urbane has the newest Android Wear.

Myriam: Look, this is an E3 watch face.

Leo: It's pretty. 

Myriam: It's good.

Leo: Yeah, it's pretty. I don't know, I think that the Apple Watch is better.

Myriam: The Apple Watch is pretty nice.

Leo: Dvorak says that this is the new Fascist salute. Apple Watch. 

Mark: What's your face? Mickey?

Leo: No, I don't do Mickey, I just have the boring old face. Kind of like your face. It's just a simple face. You know, I don't feel like Apple Watch is either better or worse than Android Wear. They are just kind of the same.

Myriam: As a watch person, having had been into smart watches for a while now...

Leo: You worked at Pebble.

Myriam: I think that to me they all do the same thing, they bring notifications to my wrist and make my life better. That's all that I care about.

Leo: That's all that they really do. Plus the health stuff.

Myriam: The fitness and health I'm starting to use more and more.

Leo: Do you adjust your hearing aid with your Moto 360?

Myriam: Not yet.

Leo: Ah, well, there is an Apple Watch app for it.

Jeff: You will have to worry about that pretty soon.

Myriam: Wait a minute, you could do it on Pebble first.

Leo: You can adjust your hearing aid?

Myriam: Yeah, they have an agreement with Sarkey, the big hearing aid manufacturer.

Leo: I have a friend who wears hearing aids who uses an iPhone app. This is actually quite cool. It geo locates so that you can have a setting say for a restaurant, so when you get to that restaurant it will automatically change the settings, because there is a lot of background noise, you can change the frequencies and so forth. When you are at home it has a different setting. It's smart enough, and then you can do it all on the phone, too, so you can really control it. This is interesting. This is, I guess, the same thing.

Myriam: Is it Starkey?

Leo: It's Resound.

Mark: Do they have hearing aids that pair to your phone that you can switch over and use it as a Bluetooth headset?

Leo: That would be great.

Myriam: Starkey was really cool because you could mix the music stream coming from your phone with the ambient. I tried hearing aids adjusted to flat, right, so it was just like having it in your monitor.

Leo: Yes, you can use this as a Bluetooth music receiver.

Myriam: Yeah, so it's amazing because you can be having a conversation like right now, and be listening to music at the same time.

Leo: Wow, just what I want. People apparently have difficulty going through life without having music all of the time. It drives me nuts. You can't go anywhere without music in the background.

Myriam: All I'm trying to say that now people with hearing aids are now enhanced. They can do more than we can. They can throw their phone across the table and have that microphone pick up the sound and bring it to their hearing aid. That is what really is cool about it. It's bionic hearing.

Jeff: Yeah it is.

Mark: It's like Daredevil, but for hearing.

Leo: That's what I need, a Daredevil app. I can hear a heartbeat.

Jeff: Imagine too, this goes into Google Glass territory, but imagine if you could get directions around your house from your hearing aid if you are blind.

Myriam: Yeah, exactly. It's getting there. We are going to get there.

Leo: Turn left, turn left, coffee table, and coffee table.

Jeff: Cat, cat, cat, cat, cat.

Leo: Cat, turn right, straight ahead.

Myriam: The cat would be everywhere, though, because the cat keeps moving.

Leo: I had a cat. We just got 2 kittens. Oh my gosh.

Myriam: I saw that. And I met the sister. The tiny little fluff ball of grayness.

Leo: Yeah, we now have Heart, Lead, and Venom.

Jeff: How is your dog doing with this Leo?

Myriam: Can we bring the cat out?

Leo: Is the cat here?

Myriam: It was here earlier.

Leo: Here comes Anthony. Anthony fosters these cats. So the cats...

Jeff: How is your dog doing Leo?

Myriam: Can we get the cat, the fluffy ball?

Leo: Ozzie loves the cats.

Jeff: Really?

Leo: Yes.

Myriam: I want the fluff ball. I want to play with the cat.

Leo: They are all black and white so he thinks that they are his. 

Jeff: Well that's cool.

Leo: Anthony Nielson works for Penta Luma Pet Pals. These cats, their mother died, so the kittens had to be bottle fed. How long did you bottle feed? 7 weeks? Every 2 hours? 

Anthony Nielson: I didn't actually bottle feed these.

Leo: Alright, I was misinformed. Isn't she cute?

Mark: This is just internet bait. I have got to get a picture.

Leo: Somebody said, Leo, forget all of the news shows, and just show kitties.

Jeff: Shame on you.

Mark: This Week in Kittens.

Myriam: This Week in Kittens.

Leo: These are the very nicest kitties ever. So Anthony, you just have Anna there all day? Tonya is fostering her right now? So they really are great cats.

Myriam: We really derailed the show. I'm sorry.

Jeff: Leo, you have got to hold the cat for the sake of the internet photo.

Mark: The ratings of this show will be the highest ever.

Jeff: There we go.

Leo: Why did I build a studio? I could just have cats.

Myriam: You could do the Dr. Evil thing now.

Leo: Yes, my friends. Yes Mr. Bigglesworth. There is no app for a cat. Anthony, you want your kitty back? Okay.

Mark: How on earth is it that I have this hanging out in the tricaster as well?

Myriam: Oh my god!

Leo: Mr. Bigglesworth.

Mark: So many Dr. Evil opportunities apparently.

Leo: It's the chair. It's not me.

Myriam: Jason, well played. Alright, where were we? I'm sorry. I totally screwed this up.

Leo: So you are a watch person.

Myriam: Smart watch person.

Leo: You are a smart watch person. 

Myriam: I guess.

Leo: To me it is a pure, it's not a category that is going to be dominant in any way. The day is long off where we will see everybody wearing smart watches. If ever, right?

Jeff: Yeah.

Myriam: I agree. I think that there are some people who are going to still refuse to use the watch. I think that it's just another wearable. Wearables have their place, and will exist, and do more and more stuff. I think until we have natural interfaces that really work flawlessly...

Leo: This is just too small.

Myriam: Yeah, right now it works if I set a timer for say, 2 minutes. That works.

Leo: That's all that works.

Myriam: Right, beyond that meh.

Leo: So at Google IO will we see a new Wear?

Myriam: We will see what we saw in the Urbane. Some enhancements.

Leo: I like that.

Myriam: That was good, right? Like the Lollipop stuff. Jeff probably knows more of what is coming I think. Do you follow this a bit more, no?

Jeff: Yeah, I do, but I really don't have a good idea of what is going to happen this year. It will be the Sundar show again, no doubt.

Leo: Sundar Pichai, who is really on ascendancy on Google right now. He pushed out Vick Ghutra, he pushed out Andy Rubin, and he pushed out Hugo Barra.

Jeff: Do we know that?

Leo: Well, they are gone. He's got their jobs. So I'm thinking. Maybe it was Larry, I don't know.

Myriam: Wasn't there more to the Hugo Barra story? Something about a girlfriend?

Leo: There was a love triangle with Larry, and something.

Mark: Sergey.

Leo: Sergey? Okay, Larry wasn't involved.

Myriam: You know that they are all kinky, right?

Mark: Only as their boss.

Myriam: They have got to be kinky. You know it. Those guys.

Leo: I'm not sure that I really want to go there.

Myriam: Family show.

Leo: Are you saying that if you were an insanely right billionaire playboy that you would do whatever you wanted?

Myriam: Come on. Alright, anyway.

Leo: So was there a red wedding at Google and Sundar Pichai just got rid of everybody and said I am in charge now? Wasn't it that way last year, or was it? He has already kind of done it.

Jeff: Sundar was the start of the show last year. There was no Larry Q&A. That was the year before. 

Leo: That's right. Last year they gave away Cardboard. 

Jeff: Which was exciting.

Leo: I know people who say I am not buying a Pixel until I go to Google IO because I think that they are going to give me the new Pixel. 

Myriam: Probably.

Leo: Really?

Jeff: I don't think that they are going to this time.

Leo: No.

Mark: I don't think so.

Myriam: No, it's too much money.

Jeff: Because for those of us who use Pixel's and love Pixel's it's a wonderful advance, but it's not such an advance that people say oh, look what they have done. It's just a better machine.

Myriam: What they could do is have a really cheap, awesome Chromebooks from one of the manufacturers and just throw that in there.

Jeff: Myriam, I think that you are right, and if I'm going to bet on one it's going to be the Chromebook Flip.

Myriam: Oh yeah, yeah.

Jeff: 180, who's is that?

Myriam: Asus, right? Asus? Acer? A something. Taiwanese.

Jeff: It's the Asus.

Myriam: I was right. The freebie stuff is nice. This is the freebie from Build. 

Leo: Really? They gave everybody an HP Spector?

Myriam: I wouldn't buy that. Are you kidding?

Leo: Yeah, I wouldn't buy that one either.

Myriam: With the flawed keyboard thing.

Leo: What's wrong with the trackpad? It's like the widest, look at the size of that.

Jeff: Gift horse, mouth.

Leo: I didn't get one.

Myriam: Anyway, I'm looking forward in terms of what comes out with Android Wear, and Chrome news, and maybe some Android phone.

Leo: Android M?

Myriam: Maybe? I'm not sure if I'm ready for another watch yet.

Leo: It's time.

Jason: We are going to hear about M in some way. They leaked it out and then pulled it from the schedule.

Myriam: Jason knows.

Jason: It's already been kind of revealed that it's going to at least be talked about.

Jeff: Here is another question. What did they talk about in last year's that we really haven't seen again? Android TV again, we keep on trying with Android TV.

Leo: Yeah, that didn't go anywhere. Android Auto is coming, it just takes a while for the automakers, right?

Jeff: True, true.

Leo: Carplay from Apple and Android Auto, I think boy, that's got to happen. I hear from people who are in such pain trying to get their phone to work with their car.

Jeff: My car has 185,000 miles, and I'm waiting.

Leo: Are you? You are not going to buy a new car until Android Auto comes out?

Myriam: I think that we are going to see more VR.

Leo: Like Cardboard?

Myriam: Because it's a huge thing right now.

Jeff: You know, what I think that we are going to get is the plastic view master.

Leo: View master, it's very possible. Here is what I think. That could be a wild card. It's very possible. Google has acquired, when Microsoft came out with HoloLens, if you look around it was apparent that Google was not too far behind on augmented reality. They had acquired a number of companies that were capable of doing some very interesting things, not in the virtual reality where you are wearing a helmet and you can't see the world, but in augmented reality where you could see through the glasses.

Myriam: Have you tried HoloLens?

Leo: I have not tried it.

Myriam: I did. I got that special thing that very few journalists...

Leo: At Build. People were disappointed by it.

Myriam: I thought that it was great.

Leo: Okay, but you didn't see the first one?

Myriam: No, I didn't see it.

Leo: The people disappointed were the ones who saw the big field of view.

Myriam: The field of view is a little narrow, but honestly the tracking is unreal. The level of capacity that you can set, were you there for that?

Mark: No, but I edited our hands on, and it sounded pretty good. They finally have a wireless prototype now. At the first demo they had Microsoft technicians following people around with the wire.

Myriam: I was pretty impressed. I think that they did a pretty good job. 

Leo: Okay, that is going be my off the wall prediction for Google IO. Watch Google's response.

Myriam: AR. AR from Google. I think that AR is more interesting to me and more tied to the success of the future than VR to be honest.

Leo: Yeah, I agree. We will take a break and come back with more. Our show today is brought to you by Citrix, the folks who do GoToMeeting. That is the way, the way to hold meetings. I've tried them all folks. This is the easiest. In fact, if you have not used GoToMeeting before then visit, click the Try It Free button, and you will be up and running in minutes. The best part is that the people that you invite to meetings will also be up and running very quickly. If they don't have the software it's quick to download, it installs, and it just works. Not only do you share screens so that you can be on the same page, you can show them your presentation, or collaborate together on a document. By the way, they can be on any computer, they can be on a tablet, they can be on a smartphone, you could be presenting from an iPad in your backyard. Then turn on the camera, and HD quality webcam means that you are basically in the same room face to face, you are on the same page. It really is great. I think that it beats a face to face meeting because it's so convenient for everybody. You don’t have to go anywhere, you just turn it on and you are gone. It's easy to set up meetings, you do it right from your email, you click a link, you click a link to join a meeting, there is no more of this entering this beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. If you want to sign up for GoToMeeting you can do it free for 30 days, no obligation, no credit card, just You will have your first meeting running in minutes. In fact, you will be looking for people to meet with. Hey, let's get together. I know teams that keep it running all day long., it's the best. Try it today.

Myriam: Take meetings in your bathrobe.

Leo: I do.

Myriam: It's important.

Leo: You know what I do in that case, though, fortunately I have a detachable camera. I don't use the built in camera. I point it at an action figure so that you can't see that I'm in my bathrobe and I look powerful. Alright, after Google IO is over, we take a breath, and then Apple's WWDC, the worldwide developer's conference. I think Apple, I don't know if Google is going to make any splashes, but I think that Apple is going to make a lot of splashes in June with WWDC, particularly in streaming music. They will probably, that's when they will announce Beats, or whatever they call it.

Jeff: Well I did a double take today.

Mark: Are there any splashes left to make on that? A lot of that has leaked out because the music industry is just...

Leo: That's true, you are dealing with the record labels. These guys are worse than me.

Mark: I feel pretty good that we will get the streaming service, but I think that the more likely surprise will be around what they do on Apple TV. Not doing an actual TV, but doing Apple TV with a potential app store.

Leo: That would be huge. They dropped the price on the most recent Apple TVs down to $59 now. I suspect that they are going to do a new Apple TV, and I love the idea of an app store. It's something that I have wanted from day 1 because then we could be on Apple TV. Right now TWiT can't be on Apple TV because only Apple can approve what is on Apple TV. But if they had an app store like they do with iPhone, like they do with Android...

Myriam: You could have a TWiT app.

Leo: I could have a TWiT app.

Myriam: Do you have a TWiT app?

Leo: Many TWiT apps. There are TWiT apps on Android. We don't do them.

Myriam: Okay.

Leo: There are members of our community who have done such a good job, Craig Hanson does an IOS version. I'm sorry, I got them all confused, Craig Molaney does an IOS version.

Jason: Mark Hanson.

Leo: Mark Hanson does IOS and an Android version. Dimitri Lionland does a Windows Phone version. Craig Molaney also did a Roku version for us. When we launch our new website, which we will do in a few weeks, we will have an API attached to the web. I was mad Jeff Jarvis, Quartz got all of this attention.

Jeff: Yeah, I know.

Leo:, it's Atlantic that does QZ. 

Jeff: It's a great, great, great little company. They are brilliant people.

Mark: Quartz is very good. The daily newsletter is fantastic.

Leo: That is the interesting thing, because they got a lot of attention recently saying that Quartz isn't a website, it's an API. The newsletter is one way that you consume it, the website is another way. 

Jeff: They started without a homepage.

Leo: Right. That is exactly what we are doing.

Mark: Yeah, the old version used to just be a stream of stories. 

Leo: So that is what we are doing. We are redesigning...

Mark: Now they have taken essentially the newsletter and created a live version of it as their homepage.

Leo: This is different, yeah.

Mark: Yeah, this is new within the last 3 or 4 months I think.

Myriam: So it's the Daily Brief that you subscribe to? Is it really good?

Mark: Yeah.

Myriam: Alright, I will get it. Which ones?

Mark: Americas.

Leo: The Liberty Time Zone.

Mark: I get the Americas one.

Myriam: Alright, let's do it.

Leo: We are all signing up now. The same thing that they are doing we are doing, which is an API and all of the apps will now be able to subscribe to an API. Dimitri, who works at Microsoft, I'm really thrilled, is going to do an open source Windows version that will be the new Windows 10 cross platform. So it will work on Windows Phone, it will work on Xbox, it will work on the desktop, it will work on a tablet. That, oddly enough, is going to be the reference version.

Myriam: I got an email from Quartz. I'm excited. 

Leo: Already?

Myriam: Yeah, thanks for signing up. Congratulations, you are all signed up.

Jeff: I signed up like 6 weeks ago. I forgot that I had it, I never put them in my list, so it's been going into spam the whole time. I just put them in my list.

Leo: So now go back to reading Quartz. So they got a lot of attention for being an API. How did we get to this? I forgot.

Jeff: Because you were jealous. You were talking about your redesign.

Myriam: We were talking about the Apple TV.

Leo: There we go.

Myriam: New Apple TV probably. Like hardware. Probably new hardware, right?

Leo: With the Beats, or whatever Apple calls it. That's one thing that we don't know.

Mark: They will probably remain the Beats brand for some sort of iTunes related Apple music.

Jeff: When I saw Apple Music I had visions of Beatles. It still stands to me as the brand. I'm older than a few of you guys, but Apple Music just stuck out to me. Oh my god, Ringo.

Leo: They got in trouble, remember, because they sued Apple Core, the Beatles' music company, and or Apple Core sued them, and they had a consent decree that said hey, we won't get into music if you don't get into computers. Of course immediately they got into music, and they had to go back and renegotiate I guess. 

Jeff: With Michael Jackson or with who?

Leo: EMI probably. It's funny, I just bought, there is a little known Beatles USB collection.

Mark: My dad has that. It's great.

Leo: It's the 2009 remaster and it's a 24 bit. Somebody told me about it. Yeah, it's not Hi-Res because it's 24k sampling, CD sample, but not 60 bit, 24 bit, which I think is all that you need.

Jeff: Interesting.

Leo: But it comes on a USB key inside of a giant metal apple. I put this on Instagram, and people said what's with the apple? So I think Apple computer won that round.

Jeff: That they did.

Leo: Why is it an apple? What's with the twig on the top?

Myriam: People are too young.

Leo: People are too young. I agree with you.

Jeff: How much was that?

Leo: $260. They don't sell it anymore. It was a limited edition.

Myriam: We need to do the show on a front porch with rocking chairs and shotguns.

Leo: That's what I always thought about. When you think Beats don't think Beatles, Jeff. When you think Apple don't think Beatles. They are going to get sued again.

Myriam: But I think, so Apple TV, hardware, apps, streaming, blah, blah. 

Leo: New music news.

Mark: I think that the Apple TV, if they get the deals done, could launch with some type of bundle of television channels.

Myriam: 4k.

Leo: You think 4k? There was some debate whether it would be 4k. I think that it is capable, but there is not 4k content yet. That's what my guess would be. But you would be crazy not to make a 4k. It's the future.

Myriam: What if Apple makes an Apple TV that is also an AirPort?

Leo: Oh, that's interesting. They did that before with the Time Capsule. It's a hard drive and an AirPort. And actually people do use AirPort Express to play music, because it has a music jack on it.

Myriam: That's what I'm saying.

Leo: Now you are talking.

Myriam: I don't see how, they just have the regular AirPort and the regular Apple TV, and they just have to combine them. It becomes the hub for your house that connects directly to your router, I mean your cable modem. Best performance possible.

Leo: It's funny, I think that Apple has shot their wad, which sounds like a sexual thing, but it's not. 

Myriam: This is a family show Leo.

Leo: It's about old fashioned guns, and you had to put a wad...

Myriam: I know.

Leo: ...and your bullet...

Myriam: You had to pack it in there.

Leo: had a cotton wad. Anyway. Jeff, do you remember back in the Revolutionary War when they had the muskets and the thing?

Myriam: How did that work?

Leo: Anyway, I feel like Apple with the Apple Watch is kind of done, right? There is not a whole lot more to say. At WWC I guess they will talk about it.

Myriam: I could see a revision of the MacBook Pro 15 Retina, because we have only gotten the 13 with the new trackpad and the Broadwell, so we need to get Broadwell and the new trackpad on the 15s.

Mark: I'm not even sure that they would mention that on stage.

Myriam: They might just announce it the same day like at the Apple Stores.

Mark: Yeah, they could do that.

Myriam: How about a new iMac.

Leo: No, I don't think so.

Myriam: A 30 inch iMac.

Leo: Oh, I would like that.

Mark: Which is also called the Apple Televsion set.

Myriam: Well played Mark. Wasn't there a rumor of a new LG 5k or 4k panel, or 8k panel?

Leo: 8k.

Mark: That seems unnecessary.

Leo: It does seem unnecessary.

Myriam: The iPhone 4 with Retina display seemed unnecessary.

Mark: How about as unnecessary?

Jeff: How about Apple going more into Internet of Things? How about Apple appliances, Apple security...

Leo: They have Home Kit. What happened to Home Kit?

Jeff: They have Home Kit.

Mark: They are building a car. That's not enough for you?

Jeff: The Apple toaster, the Apple coffeemaker...

Leo: I'm a little burned out on Apple. I think that they announce initiatives and then they kind of lose interest. It takes a lot of energy to move this forward, and Apple doesn't seem to have the ability to do multiple things at once.

Myriam: I feel the same way about Google, who announces stuff all of the time and then it just disappears.

Leo: Yeah, and then Microsoft too. This is something that all big tech companies do.

Myriam: They are always exploring new things.

Mark: Microsoft seems to do less of that nowadays, though. They have started to focus. Google has that reputation.

Jeff: What do you mean? They just announced 10 versions of Windows 10!

Leo: 10 SKUs.

Mark: Yeah, but it's all the same OS. They add 1 new feature and they call it a different version.

Myriam: I can't believe that they call them different things.

Mark: And the first 3 are free. I don't know why they need to differentiate anything.

Myriam: Jeff is right.

Leo: Free should all be the same.

Mark: Yeah, Windows Home, Mobile, and Pro are all free. So like, what are you doing to like, oh, do I really need the Pro one?

Myriam: I want to run Windows Phone on my laptop.

Leo: I think what the consensus was on Windows Weekly with Paul and Mary Jo, what we figured out is that if you currently have Windows 7 or 8 Home you will get Windows 10 Home. If you have Pro you will get Pro.

Jeff: They ought to pay me to use Windows.

Leo: One rumor from 9to5Mac, Mark Gurman, who is very good on this stuff, says that Apple Beats Music will have a Ping like social network.

Mark: Something tells me that they are not going to pitch it that way. 

Leo: They better not say the word Ping. Do people even remember Ping, Apple's ill-fated social network? It just did not work at all.

Myriam: It was terrible. Do people remember what was the thing before Google+?

Mark: Oh, Google Buzz?

Myriam: Buzz.

Leo: Buzz. Isn't part of Jay Z's title, The Social, a thing as well? You can hang with your...

Mark: You can get playlists from celebrities.

Leo: Right, celebrity playlists, stuff like that.

Mark: Yeah, but Beats does that too. They were doing that before.

Leo: So what you are really saying is that it's kind of too late to make a dent in streaming? It's like Spotify is already there.

Mark: No, I think Apple, like with many things, once they put their brand and might behind it, they can have a serious impact. I'm sure Spotify is running scared right now.

Leo: Jay Z put on a concert, a private concert, last night for title subscribers. Of course they had a Prince concert in Baltimore that was exclusive to title as well.

Jeff: Oh?

Leo: So they are trying to make this stuff happen. Apparently, I didn't watch it, but he dissed Spotify and YouTube during his concert.

Mark: Yeah, I watched it. There was a couple of F bombs.

Leo: Yeah, okay, we won't watch it. What a shock. Really?

Myriam: YouTube has the best music tool discovery that I know.

Mark: A lot of people in college today use YouTube as their main jukebox. They don't use Spotify, they don't use iTunes, when they want to hear something they just pull it up on YouTube, play the music video and they don't pay attention to the video part.

Leo: But that's the Google Play, because it includes all access commercial free YouTube music videos.

Mark: This is why Google is finally saying that we aren't going to create a separate music service.

Leo: They've got one. It's called YouTube.

Mark: But yeah, YouTube is starting to be a music service.

Leo: I paid the $10, actually it was only $8 because I got in early, on all access music and I get the YouTube playlists with no ads.

Myriam: I love all access. All access has been awesome for me too.

Leo: I put it up on the TV and let them play.

Myriam: I love it. What I love is like oh, I want to listen to that one song by Madonna. That one that I have on an album that is on a CD in the basement. I can listen to it right there.

Leo: It's right there. Here is the rap from Jay Z. "You bought 9 iPhones, and Steve Jobs is right. Phil Knight is worth billions and you still bought them kicks. Spotify 9 billion, they ain't said bleep."

Myriam: S beep.

Leo: I guess I didn't do that really as well as Jay Z did.

Mark: It was close.

Leo: Was it?

Jeff: Was that really the lyrics?

Leo: That's it. You bought 9 iPhones and Steve Jobs is rich. By the way, that's about right. I did buy 9 iPhones. Phil Knight is worth trillions. Of course he is Nike. You still bought them kicks. Spotify is 9 billion, they ain't say, what rhymes with kicks? Sticks? Licks?

Myriam: They ain't say sticks.

Leo: So he rhymes rich, kicks, and. I don't know, I don't understand rap. You kids today with your music and your long hair, you are just disrespecting this fine nation of ours.

Myriam: Get a job.

Leo: Get a job. Cut your hair and go get a job.

Myriam: Get a job.

Leo: Did I show you my new glasses? It's Warby Parker time.

Myriam: Put them on. Let's do it.

Leo: Alright, I want you to help me chose some glasses.

Myriam: Did you see mine? They are pretty hot.

Leo: I like them. Do you have them in every shade?

Myriam: No, I wish.

Leo: Is it always green? Wouldn't you like to buy glasses that start at $95 and that includes prescription lenses?

Myriam: I would.

Leo: You want progressive? Oh. Do I look like Jack Nicholson?

Myriam: Wow, look at you. You look like the Blues Brothers with this on actually.

Leo: Oh, shut up. Not nearly as sexy.

Myriam: Come on, Blues Brothers is classic.

Leo: It's dark and I'm wearing sunglasses. Warby Parker decided that they were going to reinvent the way that you buy eyeglasses. They are made from the same high quality materials sold in boutique shops, but the prices...see, these are too small for my head. I like the look, though. So what you do is you go online to Warby, w-a-r-b-y Parker, Fast Company just picked them as the number 1 most innovative company of 2015. You pick 5 glasses, 5 frames I guess, from the collection, and you get the Try On, the home Try On Kit. Oh, I like these. I do not look like Roy Orbison. I'm trying on sunglasses. So you can get sunglasses or you can get prescriptions, or both. In fact, my sunglasses are prescription sunglasses because at $95 they are very affordable. They are styled often by the great designers, but also after classic vintage frames. I have to tell you, I don't want to name names, their monopoly keeps prices artificially high. Warby Parker wanted to reinvent this business. Did you see the 60 Minutes piece? Oh, these are for you. These are yours Myriam.

Myriam: Oh, yeah, they are good. 

Leo: Yeah, you try those on. So this is the Home Try On. You go to Choose 5 pairs.

Myriam: Leo, what do you think?

Leo: I like it! Where did Theo go?

Myriam: He's back there somewhere.

Leo: I like it. Those are you.

Myriam: Are these me?

Leo: Let me see. You look sharp. You look sharp in those. I'm going to buy these for you.

Myriam: I can drive home in them.

Leo: By the way, you know you will feel good about this, with every pair you purchase Warby Parker sends a pair to someone in need.

Myriam: Of course.

Leo: They partner with Vision Spring and others, nonprofits, to get glasses to people who need them. So for a stylish new pair of prescription glasses or sunglasses, Get the Home Try On and free 3 day shipping on your final frame purchase. You have got to go to Progressive lenses are now available. This is something new. They are expensive. Well, not if you have paid for them before, $295. They are using a really cool digital free form lens. So you don't get trifocals. It's progressive. When you look down it's reading, when you look up its distance. The digital application means that you will get a larger field of vision. The design is more precise than traditional progressives. I've been using these. They are great. Really great.

Myriam: Mark, do you want to try some?

Leo: I think those would look good on you. Try them on and let's see.

Mark: Let's see.

Myriam: Sorry.

Mark: I have never done the Warby Parker experience before.

Leo: Oh, doesn't he look good?

Myriam: Wow.

Leo: Wow, you look like, you know, you look a little bit like Dobie Gillis.

Mark: I don't know who that is.

Leo: Yeah, I know. Only Jeff and I.

Jeff: Of course he doesn't know who that is.

Myriam: Who is that?

Leo: You don't even know?

Myriam: No.

Leo: God Jeff, we are so old.

Jeff: Before Gilligan's Island there was...

Leo: Maynard G. Krebs.

Jeff: Work!

Leo: Work!

Jeff: Work!

Leo: Nobody knows that.

Jeff: He kind of looks like Tom Cruise in the movie, what do you call it?

Leo: Oh yeah, Top Gun.

Mark: Risky Business.

Jeff: No, no, Risky Business.

Leo: Oh, Risky, the first one? Yeah.

Mark: I will take that.

Jeff: I thought that you would.

Leo: Yeah, that's good. That's real good.

Jeff: I can't believe you know who I was referring to.

Leo: Egyptian geeks, there are hackers in Egypt.

Myriam: Of course there are.

Leo: Why not? This guy at Egyptian Geeks, the biggest Egyptian tech community, he publishes an ESET Authentication Vulnerability that lets you go to ESET and get unlimited free licenses. Apparently there is some cross site scripting, you can inject a little something something, he shows the whole thing, result: every time you send the above request you will receive a free paid license of NOD32 valid for a year. So he tells ESET and ESET sends him an email saying, "Thank you for reporting this vulnerability. I can offer you ESET Smart Security License and / or a formal acknowledgement."

Mark: A license? He just got a license for free.

Leo: I already have thousands. I don't need that. There is vulnerabilities everywhere. Anyway, I'm sure that they have fixed it by now. Don't try this at home. It will get you in trouble. Venom, we have been talking a little bit about Venom. This was a security venerability that affected anybody doing virtual machines, or hypervisor machines. Now, by the way, very important, if you are going to have a vulnerability give it a good name.

Myriam: Right, Venom is good.

Leo: Venom is good.

Mark: Venom is a good one. Heartbleed I think is a little better, but...

Leo: I liked this one. This is bigger than Heartbleed except if you ask Steve Gibson he says come on, this isn't. So this uses a flaw, by the way Venom stands for Virtualized Environment Neglected Operations Manipulation. That's a retro name if I ever heard one.

Myriam: Yep, but it sounds cool.

Leo: It involves widely ignored legacy, get this, virtual floppy disk controller. So the code, and apparently this code, this reference code, is in everybody's VM because why bother to write new floppy disk controllers? It allows the hacker to break out of the Virtual Machine to access other machines, including those owned by other people or companies. It was in an Open Source emulator that dates back to 2004. Virtual Box includes a KVM Zen. VM Ware is not affected. Hyper V is not affected. I don't think that Venom is such a, come on, really? Boy, they write the stories here. Good, oh good. They write the stories here. This flaw might be one of the biggest vulnerabilities found this year, or at least the vulnerability with the best name this year. Steve said relax, don't worry. By the way, I got an email from our sys admin, we have fixed all of our servers, Venom is not an issue. So good news. And now, ladies and gentlemen, I have just been informed that the trailer has been released for the new Steve Jobs movie.

Jeff: Do you want to watch it?

Myriam: Let's watch it.

Leo: Back up. May I set the clip up? 

Myriam: Please.

Jeff: Do it.

Mark: There is a lot of excitement Leo.

Leo: So there has already been one horrific Steve Jobs bio pic with Ashton Kutcher.

Mark: Yes, very bad.

Myriam: Oh god, it was terrible.

Leo: Terrible. It wasn't even, it was historically bizarre, and Steve Woziak was just appalled because it completely misrepresented him. This one, we are a little worried about, it's Sony Pictures Entertainment.

Mark: Sony is doing it, and they got the rights to Walter Isaacson's biography.

Leo: It's based on his biography.

Mark: And written by Aaron Sorkin.

Leo: It's written by Aaron Sorkin.

Mark: You don't like Aaron Sorkin?

Jeff: Watch out.

Mark: Well, they need to make it entertaining.

Leo: But Aaron doesn't like technology. Am I right?

Jeff: He hates technology. He writes haudy speeches on disaster.

Leo: He did write The Social Network, which was historically horrific.

Mark: Which was a great movie though.

Jeff: Newsroom was a big fat lie. Newsroom was awful.

Leo: Newsroom was terrible.

Mark: Newsroom was pretty bad.

Leo: West Wing was one of the greatest shows of all time.

Mark: West Wing had some very good seasons.

Jeff: Also, everybody has one hit.

Myriam: It was good.

Leo: The problem is, of course, that Aaron is repeating himself a lot now. As am I.

Mark: He gets on a soapbox and it becomes troublesome, but I feel like movies keep him in check. He doesn't really do the soapbox thing as much in film.

Leo: Did Fincher direct this? Who is going to direct this movie?

Mark: No, it's...

Leo: They wanted Fincher.

Mark: He didn't want to do it. They also wanted Christian Bale for Steve Jobs.

Leo: He was thinking about it, but then he realized it was a no win.

Mark: Michael Fassbender.

Leo: Michael Fassbender is Steve Jobs.

Jeff: Am I wrong that Steve Jobs was not a loquacious guy? He was a man of few words?

Leo: A man of few words, but ladies and gentlemen...

Jeff: But Sorkin likes to give everybody lots of words.

Leo: In the hands of Aaron Sorkin, get ready, there will be walking, talking, let's go full screen, ladies and gentlemen, we give you the first trailer of the Steve Jobs movie.

(Video Plays)

Leo: Oh, Danny Boyle.

(Video Plays)

Leo: I can't hear. Turn it up.

(Video Plays)

Mark: Hey, can you restart it?

Myriam: Restart.

Leo: Restart it. We want to hear it. Kill the Google ad.

Myriam: Can we do Mystery Science Theater on it?

(Video Plays): At 9:41 the planet is going to shift on its axis and lie forever. The two most significant events of the 20th Century, the allies win the war, and this. You can't write code, you are not an engineer. What do you do? The musicians play the instruments. I play the orchestra. I sat in a garage and invented the future. Because artists sleep and hacks ask for a show of hands. I bet you don't care how much money a person makes, you care what they make, but what you make isn't supposed to be the best part of you. You are the only one who sees the world the same way that I do.

Leo: What is this trailer?

(Video Plays): No one sees the world the same as you.

Jeff: WTF?

Leo: So that was Seth Rogan who said you are not a coder. Seth Rogan, of course, plays Woz. Jeff Daniels? Who is he?

Mark: Jeff Daniels is...

Jeff: What the heck was that?

Myriam: That was terrible.

Leo: That was the worst trailer.

Mark: That's a teaser. That's okay. Michael Fassbender is not a great Steve Jobs look wise. He is an excellent actor.

Leo: I thought Kate Winslet was an excellent Kara Swisher.

Myriam: Yeah.

Leo: Who is she playing?

Myriam: Who is she playing?

Leo: We don't know. She has an accent. Just think Angela Merkle. I don't know. Jeff Daniels is John Scully. That's good casting.

Mark: Ah, Scully, yeah.

Leo: But who is she? That's Kate Winslet.

Mark: I think that she is...

Leo: His assistant?

Myriam: The PR lady.

Leo: Oh, nobody knows?

Mark: Joanna Hoffman, a member of the original Mac team.

Leo: Oh, Joanna Hoffman, of course. Okay.

Mark: And Seth.

Leo: Seth is Woz.

Myriam: That's actually a pretty good choice.

Leo: Yeah, he's got a beard and he's got curly hair. How could you go wrong? This is terrible.

Mark: That's the PepsiCo dude.

Leo: That looks like Mike Elgan.

Mark: I know he does.

Leo: He doesn't look like Jobs. He looks like Mike Elgan. Alright, well, there you go.

Myriam: Well that was underwhelming.

Leo: Wow, I am sorry that we stopped the whole show for that.

Jason: Danny Boyle is a good director too, so I am holding out hope.

Leo: I thought that he did an excellent job with the 2010 Olympics opening ceremony.

Mark: It's true.

Leo: Maybe it's just me. I liked the Hobbit Hill and all of that stuff.

Myriam: I don't remember that.

Mark:  I think that the one thing that Ashton Kutcher had going for him is that he does look a lot like a young Steve Jobs.

Myriam: He does look like Jobs, yeah.

Mark: But that is not the most important thing in a movie.

Leo: No.

Mark: I'm holding out hope for this one.

Leo: It's not over yet.

Jeff: Optimist.

Leo: Yeah, I think this confirms everything that you and I thought about Sorkin.

Jeff: Oh Sorkin is just a disaster. Trust me, it's a disaster.

Leo: This is why it's hard to do a Steve Jobs movie.

Jeff: This is going to be about him ruining the world.

Leo: Of course, because that's what Sorkin thinks.

Jeff: This will be fun though. If it is that, and Sorkin thinks that way about technology, it will be really fun to hear the fanboys. Oh, will they be unhappy. The fanboys are even unhappy with the biography, right?

Leo: Yeah. Everybody, even the people at Apple, said we hated that Walter Issaacson biography. Which I thought was pretty good.

Mark: It was very good.

Leo: What do I know? I read the new one, Becoming Steve Jobs, that is the one that the insiders like.

Mark: Yeah, it's a lot friendlier.

Myriam: You should try to get Gruber to come and lower a gasket here on the show.

Leo: Maybe we should all do a show where we go watch the movie together?

Myriam: Creepstien Theater 3000.

Leo: You couldn't shoot the movie but you could shoot us. Yeah.

Myriam: That would be good.

Leo: Alright, I think that we have killed the energy. Before we go, wow, that was terrible.

Mark: Are there more movie trailers we can watch?

Leo: Yes.

Mark: Let's watch Wild Max, come on. I saw Mad Max yesterday.

Leo: Good?

Mark: Awesome.

Leo: I can't wait to see it.

Myriam: I'm seeing it Thursday.

Mark: That's all that I will say.

Leo: I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see it.

Jeff: Have you seen the Spider Dog?

Leo: Wait a minute. There is a movie called Spider Dog?

Jeff: No, no, it's a video. Chica the Spider Dog. Just for a little light hearted ending here if you want.

Leo: Alright.

Myriam: Okay, let's do it.

Jeff: From Poland. I discovered this this weekend in Helsinki from Poland. Major hit.

Leo: Jeff, this could go sideways in so many ways.

Myriam: This is what is so awesome about it.

Leo: Ladies and gentlemen.

Jeff: I just took over the entertainment system and hit the jet.

Leo: Ladies and gentlemen, we give you, from Poland, Chica the Spider Dog. Here we go.

(Video Plays)

Jason: Is this it?

Jeff: Yeah, that's it.

Jason: Okay, I just wanted to make sure.

Jeff: It is a dog dressed as a spider killing people.

Leo: I'm sorry, this is going to give me nightmares.

Myriam: Oh, I've seen this one.

Leo: For those of you listening at home, there is really not very much going on.

Mark: It's very dark.

Leo: It's dark.

Jason: Can I skip forward?

Leo: Sa Wardega presents. Is it a whole movie?

Myriam: It's really awesome. Watch.

Jeff: It's 3 minutes.

Leo: The guy is coming out the door with his garbage. The spider dog is lurking behind a tree. Oh, they blurred the guy's head out. Ahhhh!

Mark: Is this like a hidden camera thing?

Leo: There is a dog that's dressed like a spider.

Myriam: I've seen this. This is good.

Leo: So this is like, it's a Collie in a spider costume? And the guy jumps. So this is like Candid Camera? They open the door and a dog dressed like a spider comes out?

Jeff: Well the elevator is good.

Leo: Actually I think I might have seen this.

Mark: I've seen this. It's good.

Leo: They are going to the elevator. They are getting in the elevator. But beware.

Jeff: See what they are going to see?

Leo: There is a guy. The spider dog has killed a guy. He's on his back. The dog is going to come out.

Myriam: I like the music. The music is good.

Leo: They are screaming. Oh my god, oh my god. There is a spider that has killed a man. Okay, now there is a guy in a tree wrapped up in spider web.

Jeff:  This is what we get for watching that horrible trailer. This right here.

Leo: This will take the taste of that Jobs movie right out of your mouth.

Jeff: This is what it has come to.

Leo: There is a guy in a tree. He's wrapped up in, what is that, webbing?

Mark: Yeah.

Leo: Oh my god, what is going on. Then cue the spider dog. I don't think that it is nice to make people scared like that.

Jeff: No, it's not, but...

Leo: This is just bizarre.

Myriam: It's entertainment.

Leo: It's bizarre. It's just bizarre.

Jeff: It's a huge hit in Poland.

Leo: Really? That's what everyone is watching in Poland ladies and gentlemen. Did you see, have you seen Ex Machina yet?

Jeff: Not yet, no.

Mark: Not yet.

Leo: It's very slow.

Jeff: John Stewart got in trouble because the pronunciation that they gave him for the ad was Machina. He knows better, but they are paying the bills, so he said Machina. Everybody got mad at him.

Leo: It's actually Ex Machina.

Jeff: Ex Machina, yes.

Leo: But only if you speak Latin.

Myriam: Do you speak Latin, Leo?

Leo: For some reason Lisa keeps calling it Ex MaChina.

Mark: I've heard a lot of people calling it Ex Machina.

Leo: Machina. They never say in the movie the name, so you don't know really how it's supposed to be pronounced. The plot of it is that an Artificial, I don't want spoilers, but a big company kind of like a Google or Microsoft company, the founder is a mysterious guy who lives up in the mountains, very remote. He has a contest amongst all of the employees at his company. One guy wins, the redhead wins. I don't know how else to describe him. Kind of a gangly guy. The redhead wins and gets invited to visit. I don't want to give away anything.

Myriam: Don't.

Leo: There is a moment in the movie where they show some source code. Our good friend John Graham Coming, specialized in catching source code. So he must have been there with a camera and snapped a picture of the source code. He says bluebook code decryption, here it is, he transcribes it. This is on his Tumblr blog called Source Code in TV and Films.

Jeff: That may be the geekiest specialty that I have ever seen.

Leo: Oh, John Graham Comings is awesome. By the way, it's great to read this whole blog because in the beginnings it's like it's nonsense code. But get this, this code does something. You can actually import this code and run it. What would you get after you ran the code with Python 2.7? You would get the following. An ISBN number. ISBN equals, and here is the number. Turns out it is the ISBN for a book called Embodiment and the Inner Life: Cognition and Consciousness in the Space of Possible Minds.

Jeff: An Easter Egg.

Leo: The fact that they put the that in the code on screen is pretty impressive.

Jeff: I have a confession Leo.

Leo: Yes.

Jeff: It will prove that I'm not a real man.

Leo: What? 

Jeff: You know what I really want to see?

Leo: What?

Jeff: Pitch Perfect 2.

Leo: Oh, I love Pitch Perfect. Great movie.

Mark: That lead the box office this weekend.

Leo: Did it really?

Mark: Yeah.

Leo: I'm sure that it's horrible. I'm sure that it's horrific. But I liked the first one.

Jeff: I did too.

Leo: What could be wrong with a Capella competitions? It's fun. Alright. Ex Machina, I wish I could talk about it because there are some substantial errors in the plot.

Jeff: So you are not recommending it?

Leo: It's good. It's fun. It's slow. You didn't like it, John? Yeah. There are some issues. There are some issues. I will just say this one thing at the end, you are watching the movie at the end, I won't say anything, she walks out the door and all I'm thinking is that she forgot her batteries. I'm just saying. What's going to happen? She's going to die. Anyway, that's all I'm going to say.

Jeff: Like your watch.

Leo: Like my watch. I'm just saying, don't forget your charger. Okay? She left her charger behind.

Mark:  Okay, go watch Mad Max instead.

Leo: It's better?

Myriam: Yes.

Mark: Excellent.

Leo: A good remake? You were a fan of the originals?

Mark: I think that it's more of a sequel.

Leo: Not remake, sequel. You are a fan of the originals, though?

Mark: Well I saw the first one with Mel Gibson, but haven't seen the Thunderdome one. I've heard that that is better.

Myriam: They are all great.

Leo: They are all great.

Mark: They are all good?

Jeff: Here is my other confession. Appropriate to tonight. I have never made it through one episode of Mad Men.

Leo: Last episode is tonight so don't watch it.

Jeff: I won't know what the hell has happened.

Leo: I've very excited. I'm very excited. Already some massive revelations. Who is Mad Max? Ask Mark who Mad Max is. You know who Mad Max is.

Mark: The actor?

Leo: Yeah, who plays Mad Max?

Mark: Tom Hardy in the new one.

Leo: Anything important?

Mark: He was really good. He was Bain in the Dark Knight Rises.

Leo: He talks strangely. Other than that he's fine. Hey, thank you everybody. This has been fun. I want to thank Jeff Jarvis for coming in on his Sunday evening.

Jeff: I stayed awake.

Leo: Oh, you don't have to watch Mad Men.

Jeff: No I don't.

Leo: You don't care.

Jeff: No, I will watch Wolf Hall.

Leo: There was a rumor going around. Oh, I love the book Wolf Hall. Love the book.

Jeff: The show is very good.

Leo: I can't wait. That's a PBS thing. It's a period piece. Last Letterman, oh the last 3 David Letterman shows are this week.

Jeff: Very sad.

Leo: Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. There is some question about whether Leno might show up or not.

Jeff: He denied it to Howard Stern. That would be the worst, most awful thing.

Leo: It would be painful because they had a big fight. He didn't go to the last Leno.