This Week in Space 109 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Rod Pyle (Host)
On this episode of this Week in Space. We're talking music and space and why it matters, with Chris Carberry. Stay with us Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is Twit. This is this Week in Space, episode number 109, recorded on May 3rd 2024. Music of the spheres 109, recorded on May 3rd 2024. Music of the Spheres. Hello and welcome to this Week in Space, the Music for Space edition. I'm Rod Pyle, editor-in-chief Badass Magazine, and I'm here, as always, with Tarek Malik. The implausible.

00:41 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Editor-in-chief of Spacecom. How are you, sir? Implausible is right. I'm doing all right, Rod. I'm glad I made it today Running out of adjectives.

00:44 - Rod Pyle (Host)
We'm glad I made it today. I'm running out of adjectives. We're glad you made it too. It's always nice for you to make it and, more importantly, we're joined by the Bernard Herrmann of Space Music and CEO of Explore Mars, among other things.

00:57 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Now, that sounds implausible.

00:59 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Chris Carberry. How are you, chris? Pretty good and you oh well, I realized as I was writing it that using Bernard Herrmann is kind of a boomer reference to space music that a lot of people aren't going to get. But you know, if you grew up hearing him, you kind of have to mention the guy, because nobody talks about him anymore. And he was a fascinating, albeit rather dark composer.

01:27 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Not all dark, but of course he did a lot of dark music, a lot of upbeat music. Of course, for those folks who don't know listening, in addition to the day the earth stood still, you know one of the great space films, early space related films of the 1950s. He did a good number of the alfreditchcock films like Vertigo and North by Northwest and Psycho.

01:48 - Rod Pyle (Host)
And although Psycho is, for many people, the most memorable, I have to say, in operatic terms, vertigo I find to be just stunning. But that's for later. Before we start, I have to remind people to do us a solid and make sure to like, subscribe and do other podcast things to keep us on on the air such as it is, and, most important of all, it's time for a space joke. This one loyalist nerd, dale Dietrich. Are you, gentlemen, ready? I'm ready. Yes, of course. Hey, tarek. Yes, Right. What do aliens like to eat? Yes, right. What do aliens like to eat?

02:28 - Tariq Malik (Host)
I don't know what do they like to eat?

02:30 - Rod Pyle (Host)
unidentified frying objects me too, me too, aliens. Oh, chris is having a small coronary. I do have to say, however, I would probably eat kitty litter if it was fried. So you know, I take his point. Well, I didn't say if it was fresh or not, um, but more importantly, save us from yourselves and send us your best work or most of different space joke. Thank you for that, dale, that was. That was a fun one at twist at TV. All right, so let's get to a couple of headlines and then we can get on to why Chris is here. China does it again, says Space News. China launches Changi 6 to the moon, and this, I believe, is going to the far side.

03:06 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Yes, yes, they're going back to the far side. So Chang'e 6 lifted off today as we're recording this, and it's got a pretty ambitious mission ahead of it. And this story, like you mentioned, is from Space News, but Spacecom covered it too, if you want to see that version. But Andrew Jones over at Space News had a lot of really great details, because you know, it can be pretty difficult to get some details from China's space program just in general.

Yes, indeed, but this one is really interesting because, instead of just going back to the lunar far side, they're going to go back with this new lander. It has a camera, it has panoramic imaging systems, ground-penetrating radar to do all of the things you would want a lander to do on the moon. But it's also going to collect samples lunar dust and rocks and retrieve the first-ever samples back from the far side to Earth. So, not content to be the first country ever to land successfully on the far side of the moon, they're going to bring the first samples back too.

And in a really kind of interesting twist, china is not the only passenger on this mission. They're actually working with a lot of international partners, from France, from Sweden, from Italy. They're carrying a Pakistani CubeSat on this mission, which is a bit of an opening, I think, for their international cooperation, as I think you and I have talked in the past, rod, about transplants for the International Lunar Research Station, right. So they're really setting the groundwork and they've got even more ambitious missions planned with the follow-up seven and eight missions in the series.

04:48 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So basically everybody's coming to play except the United States. All right, pretty much.

04:53 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Space dot com says Boeing is on track before we started recording, nasa and Boeing completed their final flight readiness review for the Boeing CFT crew flight test mission, which lifts off at like 10.34 pm at night on Monday, or Eastern time on Monday, may 6th. They said everything is great. They've got a few final things to close out, both on the space station to get stuff ready for this new mission and on the ground. But they're really confident, so confident that they're just looking at the weather right now and there is a 95% chance of good weather on on a Monday night for the mission. They do have some backup days. They can launch on anytime between the seventh, eighth and, I believe, ninth and 10th too. So those are all kind of backup days for this mission. It gets a little bit earlier each night, but this seems like the home stretch, rod, and the reason I put it on here is because you know, by the time we meet again, boeing may be in space with their first astronauts on this spacecraft.

05:55 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Armin. They did just announce they're not going to be doing commercial missions for the knowable future, right.

06:00 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Well, I mean, they have said like they've hedged a lot uh back and forth about that. It wouldn't surprise me if they said it, just you know, as I was preparing for the podcast and they. I missed that today, uh, but they have been on the record saying that they want to get through the NASA uh contracts first. Uh, they've got these six missions and they haven't really been thinking too much about that. But they don't have a destination yet either. The one that they planned I think that we mentioned before was the Bigelow Space Station and Bigelow Aerospace. They're gone now. They've been shuttered for a long time. So without an anchor place to go, then you're not an anchor tenant for anything.

06:36 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So they'll have to compete along with the rest of the folks, unless they could just go into orbit, okay, finally, yeah, for tourist flights From NASA, jpl. We have the James Webb Space Telescope announcing that they've been able to image exoplanet weather or create exoplanet weather maps. I don't know if you'd call it imaging, but to be able to map weather on a planet 280 light years away is definitely 2001 Space Odyssey kind of stuff.

07:08 - Tariq Malik (Host)
You picked this one. Huh, this one really caught your eye.

07:11 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, I just thought it was remarkable, you know.

07:14 - Tariq Malik (Host)
It is, it is, it's actually NASA is touting it as like an example of how far exoplanet research has really come. They're able to do this with. They call it the MIRI instrument. Come that, they're able to do this with, they call it the the mary instrument. This is infrared camera type on uh the jet propulsion, or, pardon me, on the james webb uh space telescope and, and you're right. So this planet, it's called wasp 43b and it orbits a star that's a lot smaller than our sun, um, but it's uh, 280 light years away, like you mentioned, and it's a really strange planet because it's the size of Jupiter, this planet, but it orbits the star like about 125th the distance between Mercury and our sun, which is crazy. That's like one. I think they said it's 1.3 million miles, so it's like kind of paltry. We're like 92 million miles away, 93, yeah, 93 million miles, so it's like kind of paltry.

08:06 - Rod Pyle (Host)
We're like 92 million miles away, 93.

08:06 - Tariq Malik (Host)
93 million miles, yeah, from the sun.

08:09 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So you're basically dragging your ankle in the sun.

08:13 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Yeah, I mean, it's a tidally locked planet too, so one side always faces its star, the other side is in permanent darkness.

You would think that that would be frigid right, because it's permanent night.

Permanent darkness you would think that that would be frigid right, because it's permanent night. But no, there's these winds, apparently that James Webb has been able to pick up, that blow around the equator at like 5,000 miles an hour, that take that warm air all the way around. I don't know, it's crazy that they can detect all of that with this instrument, but they did, they were able to figure all this out and that it's mixing up the atmospheric gases all around the planet. And it just gives them a bit more hope for what else they can do with James Webb, with maybe some more tantalizing locales, if you will, of exoplanets out there, ones that might be in the habitable zone or where they could have liquid water, because on earth, wherever we have liquid water, we have life. That's why NASA keeps looking for water on Mars and elsewhere. And, and you know, but they have been able to use James Webb, as well as some other telescopes, to detect what they think are thick, high clouds all over the day side of this planet.

09:15 - Rod Pyle (Host)
It's pretty crazy stuff, well now that you mentioned it, I think it occurs to me that my first college experience was probably tidally locked and not on the bright side, but that's another conversation. Before we go to the important part of this episode, which is Chris Carberry, I do need to clean up after last week where we talked about the pre-launch Russian tradition. So we got a couple of guesses. Brandon Evans wrote in and said, understandably, he would guess a swig of vodka and unfortunately, although that's probably part of it, that's not we're talking about. Mark thomas said guest number one must involve drinking vodka or stripping down to their birthday suit in the elevator on the way up to the capsule and get it completely redressed before they arrive at the top. It's an extremely slow elevator, or both.

And the answer is no, actually it is a good guess though relieving oneself on the launch gantry before uh going up to the spacecraft.

10:14 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
And oh, chris there's more to it than that oh, chris knows there's more than just relieving yourself well, the reason I bring it up

10:25 - Rod Pyle (Host)
is that valentina Tereshkova had to figure out how to do that after Yuri Gagarin started the tradition, which is potentially messy, but go ahead.

10:35 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
No, this is part of a whole bunch of superstitions they do following the path of Yuri Gagarin. Yeah, that's the most famous part and it's in my Alcohol and Space book, of course, in that way. Well, they're also watch always watch the same spaghetti Western in the bus that Yuri Gagarin watched before them. They also sign this hotel door. I believe they also sip some champagne. So the whole ritual. They go through the superstition following the path of Yuri Gagarin up to his first flight. It's really fascinating watching how much superstition is part of the Russian space program.

11:14 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, there you go. Always good to know, and I'll remember that next time I'm ready to fly. All right.

11:20 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
And that's also the place where people have traditionally put the contraband in their spacesuits before they flew into orbit, because they had to undo the spacesuit that had been pressurized before. They'd undo it there to relieve themselves. But then bottles of cognac would go in, other contraband would go in, and that's how they were smuggled up.

11:44 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Other contrabandband. You say quite a few different types of contraband that looks like he's going to close it on that, okay well, I already mentioned alcohol, but it's yeah.

11:59 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
For instance, richard gary had brought magnets up. Well, when he up and did his suit to pee on the back tire when he went up and he put magnets in. Other people have brought various types of food that are not permitted in space. You know, crummy stuff meaning they are actually crummy, meaning they taste good but they have crumbs and other things.

12:20 - Rod Pyle (Host)
John Young's corned beef sandwich. Okay, we will be back to discuss all this, and more particularly music, after the short break, so go nowhere. This episode of this Week in Space is brought to you by Wix Studio, and I'm happy to be talking about Wix Studio because I've been using it for over a decade for my own website and I find it easy to use and just as smooth as glass. Everything works just like you'd expect. So today, instead of reading you another boring ad script, wix Studio just sent me this wild looking website they put together to scroll through and tell you about. Now I'm already excited because it's a space themed site. Clearly, they made this just for us.

Let's see what this scrolly telling is all about. There's an astronaut falling through the clouds. Now two planets are crashing into each other Bam. That's dramatic. And this text is popping up as I scroll and it's telling me about the search for other species off earth. And now we're talking. We've got a spaceship. This is pretty amazing. I feel like I'm in space, which is a place I like being. It's wild how you could do all this without code, and it's easy. Now it's your turn to lift off, build your next web project on Wix Studio, the platform for agencies and enterprises. Go to wixcom slash studio or click on the link on the show page to find out more. So, chris, before we jump into the new book, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to the vaunted position you are today. Vaunted and well-compensated position you are today, well I have to say I'm compensated with a well part.

14:03 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
I don't know about that, but yes, I'm CEO of Explore Mars. Many folks may know we are the nonprofit that runs the Humans to Mars Summit, which is actually taking place at the George Washington University next week. It's the largest annual conference focused at human or robotic missions to Mars, and so I kind of got through into space community a little bit differently than many, although there's a lot of wonderful variety within the space community these days. My background is actually policy and history and back in the day myself, back in the late 90s, started getting interested in space again and realized my skills as a policy person would be helpful to the space community and eventually started helping out groups like the National Space Society with their policy, then became the political director of the Mars Society, eventually the executive director of the Mars Society, and then we created Explore Mars back in 2010 and run a lot of different programs and projects since then lots of STEM education programs and you know, as I said, we have our big program of the year next week.

15:12 - Rod Pyle (Host)
And did Explore Mars ever reprise the? I don't know if you called it a conference or a conclave or what the red thing you did out in Los Angeles.

15:23 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Yeah, you know it's funny. You should ask that. Yeah, I love that event, except it was supposed to be a fundraiser and it was a great event, but of course it was the only event we did of the year. We didn't make any money yet. Okay.

15:35 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, that's Los Angeles for you.

15:37 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Yeah, so we are now. You know we are considering a new event in Los Angeles in the fall, but we're going to do it more like probably an awards dinner, fundraising dinner and some other programming that doesn't have such a big financial hurdle to get over. If you remember, with Red it was at, you know, a weekend at a luxurious hotel and all that, and so we had to go on their schedule, not ours. This way we can also find the celebrity guest and go with their schedule rather than the hotel schedule, you know, because a nice restaurant is easy to find in LA. So we're going to do it that way. So you'll hear more on that later. But we hadn't forgotten about the concept. I enjoyed them. We had to find a new model.

16:22 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, make sure you talk to our friend aggie coburn before you do it. She's uh got la wired.

16:28 - Tariq Malik (Host)
I believe you have a question well, I, I'm, I have questions of the day right for why we we've got chris here visiting us today, because you have, um, uh, you have books out. Obviously you mentioned alcohol in space. Of course, the, the, the, the, the, the new book, the music of space, cosmos and film and television. I'm very curious how you get there, chris, from you know, from Mars, exploration, from space. Where did this interest in kind of the, the in the intersection of space and you know, and, and I guess the music that we use to convey that originate? Where did that come from?

17:10 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Well, I've always been a great fan of film scores, also that you know the idea of introducing that cultural element, people, when you know NASA makes things awfully sterile and that's fine. But as more and more companies are going into space, as more privatizations going on if we build space hotels or bases on the moon, human culture is going to go along with them. And so I like looking at these aspects but with, for instance, the music of space, which is actually two parts. Most of it is looking at the history of film and television, how music has changed in our perception of music. You know, space music has changed in that time frame.

Last chapter is about music in real space and so I spoke to a number of astronauts and other folks who you know how music has already played a role in space. But one of the biggest reasons for this is because I enjoy film and television scores so much. It also provided a way for me to follow one of my other interests and kind of connect them with my space profession and say, all right, how can I connect this? I'd like to write a book about kind of film scores and talk to my favorite film composers. How can I do that? And so trying to connect these two things. So I always try to connect a number of my interest with my day job so I can, you know, cover a lot of, you know cover a lot of my interests all at once.

18:33 - Tariq Malik (Host)
And where did it start, though, from your research? When was the? When was that first meeting of music and a depiction of space, either in film or another media?

well, I think when the first well depends on you mean the first that I kind of conceived it, or the first in reality, like in hollywood history I guess let's go with hollywood history because obviously uh, uh, uh, you know orchestrations and music has been around for you know long time, I think of holston, the planets, you know when I you know that sort of thing. But that connection to Hollywood I think a lot of people have.

19:10 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Hollywood kind of came second. I think it really started, as near as I could tell, in France and Germany, didn't it?

19:16 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Actually very good, because actually not Hollywood, but film motion pictures. It's interesting Film scores actually started well before the age of sound, before talkies. A lot of you know a good number of the better funded films, silent films, would often hire composers to write dedicated film scores to accompany the films, Assuming in the big film houses, those film palaces, you'd have orchestras playing along with them. Usually that wasn't the case, but this would often happen, and so one of the most famous examples of this was well, it wasn't technically a space film, but it was a famous science fiction film that inspired many space films, and that's Metropoulos, and he hired a famous composer named Gottfried Huberts to write a score for this and for the unveiling, the premiere of it in Berlin in 1937, it had a 66-piece orchestra and it was heavily based on this kind of Wagnerian feel, with leitmotifs and, you know, trying to depict each character with different themes, including using, like the French national anthem to represent the oppressed workers rising up, you know, in this dystopian universe they created, so that you know. Another example was also probably the first space documentary was also done in Germany in the 1920s.

I said 37. I met 27 with Metropolis. I apologize, that was a year earlier. I can't remember the name in German, but it was called Our Heavenly Bodies and it basically showed basically humans, human knowledge of space and physics at the time, you know, with wonderful animation. It was great special effects for the time.

And they hired another composer, an opera composer named Ignaz Boghalter, who had actually founded the precursor of the New York Philharmonic when he came over to the United States for a few years but then moved back to Germany to take over as a film composer, and so these started early on, although most of these scores have been lost In the case of Metropolis it only rematerialized in the last few decades Most people had never heard of the score and almost nobody in the United States had ever seen or heard the score accompanying the film, even at the day in the day that it was out.

So this was, these were the first moments. But then of course it really took off during the sound era, you know, when Hollywood started really doing film music and and the really sound of space only really in the 1950s, you know, and that started off with more of an electronic sound and it started actually with a great score by a composer that rod mentioned earlier, bernard herman, but unfortunately his score inspired some of the worst you know for b movies ever made. You know, with that theremin sound where you had all these rock movies with that theremin.

22:31 - Rod Pyle (Host)
There's good performances on theremin, and then there's just people that wave their hands around, which I wanted to mention lest we forget. I believe it was 1912 when, um, george Melies did uh, from the earth to the moon, which was back in the era. If you were doing a score for a silent film, it could be orchestrated, but you really had to make sure it could also be played on a honky tonk piano in smaller theaters, right? Because you got nothing but graphic cards coming up for the dialogue and you got to have the, the guy, playing piano in the theater, which is something my grandmother did years ago. And then we don't want to forget Frau in Mond, which I think was 1929. Was it?

things to come no it's woman in the moon, and that was another. That was a very late silent film, but I checked on it and it was another one of these piano scored. You know, in this case there's some orchestration, but it was. You know, I'd call it funky now, not for the time, I mean for the time sorry, this is getting off music a bit. I mean, basically, they're, you know, bad guys going to the moon to get gold right, but the special effects were incredible. They had people floating in zero G, they had acceleration couches, they had, you know, wires and the whole thing on the moon, and it was very well done for its time, but the music was suffering. So, chris, take us to what you feel is the first truly profound space score.

24:11 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Well, there are more than one answer to that. There is a definitive answer pivoting moment for film scores, particularly space. But there's a couple of major precursors to it. Obviously, everybody looks to 2001, the Space Odyssey, with the actual use of classical music for that very effectively. And of course you look at television in the 1960s with Star Trek, the iconic theme there, and a number of other things and Lost in Space.

24:44 - Rod Pyle (Host)
John Williams Lost in.

24:46 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Space, john Williams. They actually wrote two theme songs for that, the more famous one, the second one, were very effective. And so I'll say a little bit about 2001,. And it's interesting because there actually was a film score, you know, an actual dedicated film score written for 2001, a Space Odyssey. But Stanley Kubrick tossed it out, not Oliver North, not that up north, alex North, alex North All of a sudden I'm dating myself again by selling Oliver North. Yeah right, iran-contra hearings.

Okay, alex North was asked to write the score, although Kubrick didn't actually want somebody to do it, but the studio thought they'd look cheap if they didn't hire somebody to write a score. And so, according to Alex North, he thought that, you know, he thought his score was going to be played in the film until the premiere, until he was sitting in the audience at the premiere in April of 1968. And, according to North, kubrick said, you know, countered that, saying that he knew. But this was obviously an area of tension between the two. But regardless, obviously we all know, you know all the famous usage of both the Strauss's not related, you know and Ligeti and a number of others within this film score, and he was very effective, but also effective of the long silences as well, within 2001. Of the long silences as well, within 2001.

We always think of the music, but you know how eerie it is when there's no music at all. It can really be jarring. And it's an interesting thing because often when you're watching film, even though you don't have background music in your real life, it sometimes just feels doesn't sound right literally when you don't have background music in your real life. It sometimes just feels doesn't sound right literally when you don't have background music, or it can create a very eerie feeling. And I think Stanley Kubrick did a very, you know, brilliant job at finding that balance.

But it also was something that inspired may have inspired, I mean, it did, but he didn't do it. George Lucas have inspired, I mean I did, but he didn't do it. Uh, george Lucas, when George Lucas was thinking about uh was pondering the score for star Wars he had originally thought about, you know, following the example of Stanley Kubrick, and he wanted to use classical music as well as um, classic Hollywood scores from, uh, you know, like you know, from the golden age of like, from Max Steiner and others from the early days of Hollywood. Seahawks in space.

Yeah, pretty much and so. But Steven Spielberg actually convinced them to do otherwise, said you've got to meet this composer that I've worked with with Jaws, his name is John Williams, you'll love him. And so they met, and you know that's how it happened. Otherwise, star Wars may have actually been following the same example of 2001, a Space Odyssey. But that gets me to the real definitive moment in film music and space music.

28:01 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Hold on to that for a second, because we got to run to a break, so we'll come right back for that definitive moment. No, not your fault, it's my fault. Um standby, we will return in a moment.

28:11 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Take it away, chris at any rate, in 1977, may 1977, the moment star wars hit theaters, in addition to being a major milestone in motion picture history, it was a significant milestone in film scoring, not just for space films, as Hollywood had been. Basically orchestral scores had gone out of favor for a while. There were a number of good scores, but films like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid the Graduate. Like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid the Graduate, others were not using classical scores, they were using folk music, other sorts of you know, other types of music, and so a lot of studios were less comfortable with big orchestral scores. And then comes this score that just massive, massive compared to anything that people done for a while with massive orchestra you know London Symphony Orchestra and just made such an amazing impact. It just, you know, can't imagine how many composers that are composing today were inspired by that moment when they realized what a film score could do. And it not only pretty much motivated a lot of film scores after that, of course.

After that everybody wanted something that sounded like Star Wars in their space films, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. It also really revitalized orchestral music in a public interest in orchestral music, film music, particularly Star Wars, started even playing by major orchestras and more people started going to the orchestra because of that. So it was a perfect pops sort of music way to introduce people to orchestral music, you know, in an approachable way so, and you know the impact of that's still going on. Of course John Williams is still writing music you know we've taken. We have a lot of great composers now that are exploring new territory. But that moment you can't think of any other moment in film scoring history that has as big an impact, particularly for space films.

30:12 - Rod Pyle (Host)
I have one moment perhaps that could have had that big an impact. It's a bit of trivia, but back in the 90s I was married to the Los Angeles Philharmonic. But back in the 90s I was married to the Los Angeles Philharmonic and I met Jerry Goldsmith about the same time I was working on D Space Nine. So I told him I was a huge fan of his music and loved what he had done for Planet of the Apes and, of course, the Star Trek overture and all that. And then he told me how frustrated he had been when he was writing. So he wrote. Know, he wrote the second great Star Trek theme. Right, the big one, the big grassy one. It was originally executed as a jazz piece. Did you ever hear the jazz version?

Oh, tell me, you have an example of that I don't have it, We'll bring it another time, but it was. It was horrible beyond description and I thought how could such a brilliant guy write something so deplorable? Sorry in your memory, Jerry, I don't mean to besmirch you, but it just made my skin crawl off my body.

31:16 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
I didn't hear it, but I heard the stories and you know Robert Wise, who directed the um original star trek, who also did also the day the earth stood still right now, and who the other guy was may have been bob justman, uh, but wise, looked at him and said uh-uh, yes, I know I think you need to go back and do this.

He went back, brought back the original and said so, why didn't you write this one before the original? And said so, why didn't you write this one before? But that you can't underestimate the value of the music and Jerry Goldsmith did a brilliant score for the first Star Trek film, the motion picture, and frankly it saved the film because the film had a lot of problems and they all hadn't finished the effects, the sound effects and a lot of other things. So they pretty much relied on Jerry Goldsmith to let the music fill in the places where they didn't have time to finish the film.

So really, where not very much was happening, yeah, yeah, without that music that film probably would have been a disaster.

32:19 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So you think you know the half hour or so that we watched mr zulu's face going like this as they were traveling down the the viger tunnel. You think that he did some scoring without?

32:29 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
any music. I'm just doing that yeah yeah, exactly it's like watching the barrels and shark in without music. So just all right, there's a couple of yellow ballot barrels going to the water god, are we nerding out here or what?

32:42 - Tariq Malik (Host)
okay, tarik, you better intervene I'm just gonna say that, that it took us like like zero seconds to get to star wars and star trek, and then this is like get parked there. So when it came to music about space and and science fiction in space, well, we just did star wars for you because you're such a fanatic and it's appropriate because it's Star Wars Day weekend.

Right Today is Star Wars Day Eve, as we're recording this Product placement. Yeah, I'm just saying I wanted to ask, because when I think about space, chris, and how it's depicted on screen, you know space is silent. You're talking about Stanley Kubrick splitting up all of that iconic music with these long periods of science. We saw it in a few other films, or recently, too, that that I can think of. But I'm curious what you know, what the original concept you feel in your research that these composers are trying to get across about space, right, about what it feels like, because space, you know, there's no sound in space, um, but, uh, but is it? Is it adventure? Is it the mystery? Is it just that ethereal, unknown? Uh, that that these, these, these. You know early science fiction, before we had people going into space and living in space. You know, 24 hours a day. You know science fiction before we had people going into space and living in space. You know 24 hours a day.

34:04 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
You know, around the clock, uh, what they were trying to, to figure out, to, to convey what that that would be like for the, the, the audience, the viewer well, there are two, really two schools of this, particularly early on it, you know, if the composers were trying to simulate the strangeness of the environment, you know, create it kind of like the electronic music that became synonymous with the 1950s. If they're trying to portray the environment, the weirdness of what's being depicted on screen, or if they're trying to depict the characters, you know kind of not think about necessarily that this is in space, but they are trying to drive this through the characters, through the emotions and everything else. So that's kind of two approaches people have done, and generally the second of those has become more popular. But we've seen more, I think, frankly, some more effective ways of doing that recently, with some of the film scores that Hans Zimmer has done and others lately that have managed to kind of depict some of the sounds of space a little more effectively or just kind of conveying it a little bit differently, and so but and that's the way, that's what I mean, but the original one I mean, or sorry, conveying the emotions of the characters and everything I prefer. But if you can find clever ways to do both at the same time, whereas you're not picking your choosing, you have those dramatic musical, emotional moments. But you can also use the orchestra or this or you know, also use the orchestra or this, or you know growing number of types of instruments you know to create new sounds. That's great. I mean, rod mentioned plan of the apes and that was a very effective usage, creating kind of that alien sound. And he even used like pots and pans from his kitchen to create some of the sounds and or use instruments in ways that evolved from humans and humans didn't have, for the most part, the ability to speak. And then only at the end do they do the. You know the reveal. Oh, we've been on Earth the whole time.

Spoilers, I'm sorry, Sorry for you, for those of you who haven't seen the movie, but the same thing and that technique has been used in other films as well, Like, for instance, see yeah, George, not George Lucas, John Williams did this in Close Encounters. Whereas you know the film other than occasionally hearing dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, Whereas you know the film other than occasionally hearing dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, you know on the phone and other places. But most of it is dissonant music and it makes you feel as though these aliens that are visiting us are sinister. Non-dissonant music, non-avant-garde music, and turns into a major key, sort of beautiful sort of emotional music and you even hear when you Wish Upon a Star within that music. At the end, when Richard Dreyfuss is being led up into the spaceship, music is. You know, a lot of composers have used uh methods you know, as a misdirect and try to lure people into a sense of something that it has actually isn't.

37:52 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Yeah, yeah, that music sold me on richard drivis abandoning his working family, wife and three kids for aliens in space well after watching that movie, wouldn't you okay?

38:03 - Rod Pyle (Host)
so I want to come back to that conversation and we will do so right after this quick break. Chris, you mentioned close encounters and that reminds me that there is a school of thought. Uh, that music and I guess we kind of put this into practice to an extent with the voyager record that music may be this universal language that if we can't talk in verbal tones, maybe we're talking in math. But if you want to talk to another advanced alien technological species, especially if you're trying to convey a sense of emotion, possibly assuming they have ears or some kind of hearing organism that they would respond to music.

38:46 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
You know, obviously a lot of people have talked about this. It has been a theme in multiple movies and close encounters, but it's been used in you know not number of television shows as well. We have no idea, obviously, when they were doing close encounters. You know Steven Spielberg went through multiple ideas. He didn't want to do old, cliche things like they were. You know, steven spielberg went through multiple ideas. He didn't want to do old, cliche things like they were. You know psychic and or other things.

They originally thought math would be the music. You know the universal language, but it's not as exciting to have math as the universal language of, you know, the universe. It's not as interesting as music cinematically. So they ended up with music and of course music is based on math. So, you're right, it could actually, you know it works. But they also spent like just for those five notes. I believe John Williams came up with about 500 different variations they listened to to find the one that worked correctly. So yeah, I don't know the answer to that, obviously, but you know it is funny.

I did read one review of the book that complained. You know I should have talked more about that. Well, I did in relation to films. But we have no idea. You know how aliens think, if they exist, if they, you know, have any, if there's any relationship to the way they can perceive the universe and we can perceive the universe. I hope so. I hope we actually have music in common. That would be a wonderful thing to bring us together and kind of like. You know, as I mentioned in the final book, the final chapter of my book, music in Real Space, how music has played a role in uniting international crews, you know, on the space station, who are not necessarily getting along with each other on the ground, at least their countries. We won't name names, but music seems to always be in the background, it seems to hold these crews together. It really helps in bonding.

40:41 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So that's different than an alien civilization, but you know, we've seen it between countries in space already well and, as you point out, or your forward writer pointed out in your book uh, I love this statement people may forget what you have done, but they will never forget how you made them feel. And I think that applies, you know, both to the movies and television shows you talked about, but also possibly in the space station, because musicals are very emotionally bonding experience that you you can't necessarily get somewhere else easily, and I believe tarik has a question that relates to that well, yeah, it's funny that you mentioned that, because I think it really segues quite directly into what we see today, because you know, as you mentioned, chris, earlier, that there was this whole period of of of music being associated with space when we didn't have people flying in space.

41:31 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Now we have people like not just flying in space but living in space all year round, um and uh, and and quite rightly it that music has a place in their lives as a diversion right, as a way to escape, and one of the examples that came to Rod and I's mind is some of the I don't know if it's like a meme or they're viral moments of music in space, but when Chris Hadfield played his version of David Bowie's Space Oddity, one that has a more upbeat tone than being lost in space adrift, I should say you know, that was like a moment where it really drove home the feeling of space. He made a big music video on the space station. Are we going to play it? Are we going to be able to on line 49 there, or are we going to stay away from that? It's quite nice, a line 49 there or are we going to stay away from that? Uh, it's quite nice, uh, uh, the way that he had and he got permission from the uh, the bowie folks to be able to put it out.

42:31 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Here it is, and he's a good singer yeah, and he recorded this all in space ground control to Major Tom.

42:48 - Chris Hadfield (Playback) (Other)
Lock your Soyuz hatch and put your helmet on. Ground control to Major Tom. Eight, seven, six Commencing countdown engines on, so yeah.

43:17 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So, as John just pointed out, there probably wasn't a piano in the space station. No, they have a keyboard. They have a keyboard. Yeah, they have they have a keyboard. They have a keyboard. Yeah, they have a little electronic keyboard.

43:24 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
They have a keyboard. They have two guitars up there. There are a number of instruments. I actually interviewed Chris Hadfield for the book also Did you? Yeah, and it's just interesting. That was a brilliant video but it took a lot to get it done because, of course, the physics of space makes it difficult to play a guitar. As you know, every for every action, there's an equal opposite reaction. When you're strumming a guitar you have, you have to deal with, continue with the physics and and it also impacts your voice.

43:55 - Rod Pyle (Host)
You mentioned that because, like the physics you say, was he beginning to twist as he strummed? Is that what you mean?

44:01 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
That you have to either put yourself down, you know, strap your feet down when you're playing, you can start moving all over the place. Katie Coleman also had similar variations she had to deal with when she was playing her flute in space. But even his voice he mentioned, because you know, most astronauts you know report. They have kind of fluid shift and they feel like they're having a cold. He loses his lower register but he has a lighter, higher voice and he mentioned that worked in his favor for this video and so all these things he had to contend with. But it's also kind of meant. It's interesting how music, as more and more people go into space, play music. How will that impact music? Will we actually be able to? Will there be music that can only play in space?

Because, as people are trying to adapt to the different physical environment, be it different gravity, different atmospheric pressure, which, of course, atmospheric pressure plays a major role. You know, in sound, you know in your voice, there are lots of different variables. It'll be interesting over time and so, but that was. It was a very interesting listening to how the whole process he went through, including, as you mentioned, getting permission from David Bowie for changing the words so the astronaut didn't die, yeah, and just the whole process of recording the sound and recording the video, and and then how success it had hundreds of millions of views.

45:25 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Yeah, that's a song that he he recorded in space and cannot sing the same way again because of the conditions that you're mentioning just there. You know, or when he's playing the piano, he would have to strap himself down so that when he presses the keys he doesn't push himself up, right?

45:47 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Wow, wow.

45:48 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Or make the keyboard a projectile unintentionally, so music okay yeah, can you talk a little bit about, um, your sense of what role music, composition and performance and participatory performance like group singing, might play in the future in, you know, a lunar base or an orbital, orbital habitat or, let's say, a mars research station? I mean, if you're stuck down the antarctic for over winter, uh, from the time of the european explorers they'd drag out the guitar, the zither, whatever they had, and sing and perform stuff, and it seems to be a very bonding experience for people in a way that a lot of other activities aren't.

46:31 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Of course, and this, this is part of human culture. This is about human, just part of our mental health as well. It is as, as you mentioned, it's been a key part in exploration. You know, when people have been in extreme environments, that and you know some other things. Probably alcohol was there as well, but music has really played a role in that.

As you mentioned, to bond people, just make sure that, just even individually listening to music, and it also helps them connect to their home to Earth, to their particular place on Earth, et cetera. So it is one of these things, these parts of human culture, that are just essential as we're sending people to live and work in other places and just start continuing human culture, the good parts of human culture, and once again it'll be interesting to see how this evolves. The good parts of human culture, and once again it'll be interesting to see how this evolves. You know, when we do have people living for long periods of time or permanently, you know, on the moon or further away, on Mars or elsewhere beyond, you know it'll be interesting to see how these things evolve. You know, as I mentioned earlier, we might be able to have music that you can only do on the surface of Mars because of the various environments.

Different instruments might be created based on the different environmental factors, gravity or other factors. So you actually the design to accommodate you for the differences in gravity or other factors that might be in place, differences in gravity or other factors that might be in play. So, regardless, I think it's one of these crucial factors that people often don't appreciate space exploration. Katie Coleman mentioned to me that when she was they were considering sending a another second guitar up to ISS. One of the engineers at JSC said why could they, how could they possibly need a second guitar up on ISS? And she said so they can play together.

48:25 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, engineers think a little differently than performers sometimes.

48:28 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Yeah, I just had a quick question related to that. I'm curious what a guitar would sound like on Mars. Is that something that you found out Just because there is an atmosphere?

48:38 - Rod Pyle (Host)
it's just super, super super thin, oh, you mean if you played it outside? Yeah, if you played it outside.

48:42 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Yeah, if you played it out well, you obviously your astronauts wearing a space suit.

48:45 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Let's say they have a really dexterous glove or something or if you're on titan video actually banjo would be better because you could put picks on your, on your pressurized fingers, yeah or if you were on titan right, which has a really thick atmosphere.

48:58 - Tariq Malik (Host)
I mean, I'm just curious how that would change. What?

49:01 - Chris Hadfield (Playback) (Other)
what christmas singing or what's such a nerd, I don't know.

49:05 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Go ahead I don't know. I don't know either, and so maybe somebody who's listening to this can write into you guys and mention. But I don't know. Obviously I talked about the prospect of playing on mars, but within an atmosphere you know that we can breathe in. But out out, you know outside the um, you know the habitat, yeah, who knows, we know sound will does sound differently in that that you know one percent atmospheric pressure.

49:30 - Tariq Malik (Host)
So it would be interesting but we're gonna find out it's.

49:33 - Rod Pyle (Host)
I was gonna say I think we're gonna we're gonna have to put together a national science foundation proposal or a niac proposal and get this funded, okay, uh, we will be back after the short break and I have a burning question about alcohol. How does it hurt? We'll be right back. So, before you get away from us, chris, uh, I wanted you to talk a little bit about your alcohol and space book, because that was something I think for a lot of us in in the space book field it was. It was a little out of left field, you know it's like well, that's a cool idea. Why didn't I think of that? But you thought of it and you wrote a whole book about it.

50:11 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
I did and this kind of came out of a lot of different, more kind of less serious sort of conversations after space conferences. You know, as you're at the bar wondering whenever you can grow wine on, make wine on Mars, would it taste like the soil? Or can you make beer in space? And I thought originally it would be a great. You know short article, you know semi-serious, with real facts, but lighthearted.

But the more I looked at it, the more alcohol companies I encountered that had actually sent space experiments, I realized there was enough here for a book With all these different companies, the interesting history of drinking in space. But when you also add in things like how it's been used in science fiction, you know history of it in human culture and providing the context but also how it impacts everything else, what do you need for alcohol in space? Well, first and foremost you need agriculture and, talking about all these things that interact, you have to perfect agriculture in one way or another to be able to do this. So that's kind of what motivated it and it's gotten an interesting amount of play and it's been turned into a documentary film which actually premiered at the Space Symposium just a month ago and it'll be appearing. This film will be appearing on streaming services starting this summer and we'll have a number, quite a few other screenings coming up.

51:31 - Rod Pyle (Host)
So alcohol has different meanings in different cultures, and it seems to have a very profound meaning in Russian culture. So back in the Soviet days there was some alcohol flown, either legitimately or non-legitimately. What do you know about that?

51:51 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
There's been a lot of alcohol flown and you know it still is, and you know people always say the vodka, as you mentioned earlier. Actually, the drink of choice in space is cognac, cognac and Tang Mimosa, yeah.

I've gotten like two or three different reasons for this. You know, some people have said that it's because vodka is an everyday drink. Cognac is a drink for a special occasion. Every day you're in space is a special occasion.

Others have said that Yuri Gagarin may have had some cognac in space, and that would absolutely be a legitimate reason because, as I mentioned, they follow his example religiously and they're very superstitious. So if Yuri Gagarin actually had any cognac in space and I found no evidence that he did, but if he did, that would be an absolutely compelling reason why they would do it, and so, regardless, it's gone up there since there's been plenty of alcohol on the International Space Station. It has come through the Russians, but they will often have, including the Americans have these little receptions when there's a new crew and have little shots of cognac, and it's another form of bonding. It's a wonderful way of bonding the crew. I never found any evidence of anybody getting inebriated. There wasn't enough of it up there, but it has served, I think, a valuable role for bonding the crew and letting them relax after a day, Like, for instance, after the fire on Mir. As you can imagine, they needed a drink and a number of the crew members did have a drink after that.

53:26 - Rod Pyle (Host)
I don't blame them so in the future space settlement, future assuming that we have one. We hope we will when we have these larger settlements. You know, I think anybody who really puts some thought and research into it realizes you're unlikely to be able to have a total prohibition on alcohol because, like the navy sailors in world war ii who were drinking torpedo fuel, alcohol finds a way, you know. But, um, what about the interaction between the sweat that a person puts off and they've been drinking and what goes into their urine and life support systems, recycling and all that? Is this a big concern?

54:09 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Well, this is one of the reasons. It's even the fumes that NASA often objects to. You know, when they're saying we don't allow alcohol in space because the fumes, how it impacts the ecosystem how much that is actually true, I'm sure it does. So it does add a challenge to that, but based on the fact I mean, once again, they haven't. It's not as though they're drinking every day up in space, but they have consumed enough where it hasn't created major problems as far as we know. So, frankly, this is one of those things where I think there could be more study, and this is one of the big, not just how it impacts the systems and space, but impacts human physiology, because, as a result of the fact that every space agency, including Russia, have officially prohibited alcohol in space, even though some of them are more serious about it than others, there have been no official studies on how humans metabolize alcohol in space. Because if you did an official study, you'd have to acknowledge people were drinking in space and they can't acknowledge that.

55:12 - Tariq Malik (Host)
And so require or require them to drink in space so that you could run the study Right, right, well well, we have an opportunity now.

55:20 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Commercial players don't necessarily have to abide by this. They've been a little cautious, you know, early on so they didn't kind of really screw up their plans by having some unfortunate incident while everybody was drunk in space. But even like the Inspiration 4 crew were considering having a drink up in the space, but since it was in support of St Jude's Research Hospital, it didn't seem like the right thing to do, but you know, but it's going to happen.

So I think we need to take this opportunity to study it, because whether you agree, or you're supportive or not supportive of people drinking in space, it's kind of irrelevant because they have done it and they're going to continue to do it, and so we probably should understand how this actually impacts human bodies. You know, before it goes too far from anecdotal tales, it doesn't appear. It does much differently than it does here on earth.

56:12 - Tariq Malik (Host)
It doesn't kill you, but beyond that we don't know, and there's already been some I don't want to call it toe-dipping because it's been substantial. I mean we have here on line 66, you know just an example of how Budweiser, for example, works with the ISS National Lab to send like little miniature encapsulated malting stations to just to see if they could even make the ingredients that they would need to make beer. And when we watch sci-fi and I hate to be that guy Rod to bring it up- but, Isn't there some video game affiliation.

56:51 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Here you can go to Well.

56:52 - Tariq Malik (Host)
I was going to say well, for all mankind. For example, they're on Mars and they have like a speakeasy in the deep tunnels where they've siphoned off all mankind. For example, they're on mars and they, they have like a speakeasy in the right deep tunnels where they they've siphoned off parts and they've built their own. Still, like you were saying, chris, you know, if you don't uh understand it, people are going to figure it out anyway, especially if we have our big, wonderful future of, you know, cities on mars and whatnot. Uh, people will figure it out on their own if they don't have a structure for it.

57:19 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Of course. I mean, like there are bars in Antarctica. You know, these are things. This is part of human culture. It's been part of human culture from, you know, before written records. And so people thinking, oh, they're not going to drink in space even though that ship's already sailed or that spaceship has already sailed. It's not going to drink in space even though that ship's already space sailed or that spaceship has already sailed. It's not going to stop it's. You know, things do change over time, but this is likely going to continue and people will find a way, like as you mentioned, you know, in science fiction and in reality. I mean, for instance, good example, uh, the original, uh, biosphere 2 crew actually created banana wine. You know, when they were on their mission. Apparently it tasted like crap, but they enjoyed it nonetheless because they needed a drink.

58:08 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, they probably needed a drink because they had split into factions and were fighting for half that time. You know, tarek, I think that there's a research opportunity here. We could buy a nice clean trash dumpster and you and I could get a grant to seal it up with duct tape and sit in there and drink for a couple of days, and then they could test the outgassing afterwards, which would be of questionable quality and probably have fermented itself.

58:33 - Tariq Malik (Host)
It sounds like fun, doesn't it? I don't know if I want to join you in your space, dumpster Rod.

58:37 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Are you telling me as a kid you never crawled into a cardboard box to play Rocketman?

58:43 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Of course I did. Of course I did.

58:45 - Rod Pyle (Host)
This just means we do it together, pal, I thought you were my partner here.

58:49 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Okay, clearly this isn't going anywhere. Does that sound like a good title for a children's book? Rod's Space Dumpster.

59:01 - Rod Pyle (Host)
You know, okay, i'm'm gonna stop myself right there. Chris, you have anything more that we missed about either music or alcohol in space of course we can't do it say everything pick something we forgot to ask oh wow, put me on the spot uh I mean, you know, every author has a chapter that that really resonated with him was like oh, I wish they'd ask about that, it's 0.08 all right, all right.

59:25 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
I've got a couple more recent going back to music film scores, um. First off, am I allowed to swear on your um show?

59:37 - Rod Pyle (Host)
I guess, so we can always beep it if we have to.

59:41 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
One of my favorite stories. When Harry Gregson Williams, composer of the Martian, was given the script by Ridley Scott, he handed him the script and had a little post-it note on it saying read it, love it and don't f*** it up. He did read it and loved it. I don't it up so, and he did read it, loved it. I don't think he fucked it up.

And it's kind of interesting because, you know, gregson Williams had an interesting way of writing the music that was different than others that I've seen and it kind of almost I don't know if I'd call it scientific, but it's kind of a visual way of writing music which I hadn't seen with most composers.

He started in the middle of the film and then worked back, you know, side to side with his music. I don't mean literally writing music backwards, but he started in the middle and then wrote everything else. But he also liked the contours of music, meaning that you know he associates certain contours with certain emotions and you know, and so would look at his music, you know how the contours of the notes going up and down literally write the music or adjust the music based on those contours which you know so literally, how it looks on the page in addition to how it sounds as well, which is kind of an interesting way of composing music. There's always, if you're a composer and I have done some composing you always have to look at that, because you can see some bad form by looking at it visually, but usually don't look at it quite in that manner, at how it really looks on the written page.

01:01:18 - Rod Pyle (Host)
All right. Well, this has been fascinating and I want to thank you for joining us today. Chris, We'll have you back, and I want to thank our listeners for joining us for episode 109 of this Week in Space the music of space. I need an Echoplex for that. Don't forget to check out spacecom the website's the name. Don't forget to check out Explore Mars the website's the name. Don't forget to check out explore Mars. What's the website for? Explore Mars?

01:01:41 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Explore marsorg.

01:01:42 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Explore marsorg Probably should have guessed that the national space society at NSSorg. Uh, these are all good places to to to learn more about what we do. Uh, chris, other than that that website where should we seek you out to keep track of what you're up to?

01:02:01 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Well, as I mentioned earlier, of course, you can buy both the music of space and alcohol in space on any online vendor and stay tuned for the release of the alcohol in space film. I think everybody will enjoy it. I think they'll be surprised Story of a lot of very passionate people in the alcohol industry trying to get engaged in the space industry, so you should be seeing that sometime. Hopefully by midsummer We'll be up on at least two of the streaming services and I'll be announcing not we well, myself and Sam Burbank, the filmmaker, will be announcing a number of screenings around the country and a couple internationally as well.

01:02:45 - Rod Pyle (Host)
Well, and there's always profit to be made in sin. So I think we should keep our minds open towards the future of alcohol off the world, because it ain't going anywhere. And of course, you can find me at pilebookscom or at astromagazinecom, where I tend to hang out. Oh and of course, how could I forget? Don't forget to look at Tarek's Fortnite channel, because he seems to think this is very important. No, what Don't you?

01:03:13 - Tariq Malik (Host)
What? No wait, are you going to ask me where people can find me? Were we skipping over that today? Oh, I'm sorry, Did I?

01:03:20 - Rod Pyle (Host)
forget, go ahead. No, it was my segue Go for it.

01:03:23 - Tariq Malik (Host)
Oh no, no. Well, if people are interested, they can find me at spacecom, where, of course, this weekend and early next week we're all getting ready for the Starliner launch. That'll be very exciting, but before that of camping with my daughter, because that's what we're going to do this weekend, even if it's going to rain, and, as Rod mentioned, you can always find me on YouTube at SpaceTronPlays, where we're very excited about the Star Wars update. Lots of really fun things to try out there.

01:03:49 - Rod Pyle (Host)
You'll be camping this weekend.

01:03:52 - Tariq Malik (Host)
That's right. That's right, and if you are in the DC area, please, please do go check out the Humans to Mars conference on May 7th and 8th, and on May 8th I'll be there moderating a panel all about how AI can enable Mars. It's going to be really exciting from the people I'm talking to this week.

01:04:13 - Rod Pyle (Host)
I'm sorry you're done. I dozed off there for a second. Ok, wow, before I I forget three weeks until the international space development conference here in los angeles, california, at the sheraton gateway gateway hotel. Uh, please feel free to drop by. We'd love to see you, and I have like three talks a day so I'm easy to find and I'm already tired new episodes of this podcast published every friday on your favorite podcatcher. So be sure to subscribe, tell your friends, give us reviews, tell the world we're here, we love you, we're fun.

Five stars, thumbs up, five glasses of beer, whatever makes sense. And don't forget, you can get all the great programming with video streams on the twit network ad free, on club twit, as well as some other extras that are only found there for just seven dollars a month. What a bargain. You won't get anything else that much fun for seven dollars a month, I can assure you from experience, being an old guy. You've heard leo talk about the tough times facing podcasters, and this is your chance to step up, be counted, be part of the club. You can also follow the twitTech Podcast Network at Twit on Twitter and on Facebook and Twit TV on Instagram. Chris, thank you very much for giving us your time today and sitting through our headlines and my awful jokes. We really appreciate it. Do you have a space joke for us before we close shop?

01:05:36 - Chris Carberry (Guest)
Before you're talking to me. Yeah, sorry, I don't have any space jokes. I probably would if I'd known in advance. But sorry, I'm not gonna have an impromptu one.

01:05:47 - Rod Pyle (Host)
That's how we roll here. Lack of planning is our middle name. All right, thank you very much everyone. It's been a real pleasure and we will see you next time

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