This Week in Google 799 transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show
0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
it's time for twig this week in google, the last show of 2024. Jeff jarvis is here, paris martineau is here. Lots to talk about. Uh tiktok is going to get its day in court the supreme court. There's a problem with tp link routers, turns out. The most popular router in the us is made in china. The commerce department says we might have a problem here and I'll place a call to my buddies at ChatGPT. It's all coming up next on Twig Podcasts you love. From people you trust.
0:00:35 - Paris Martineau
This is Twig.
0:00:41 - Leo Laporte
This is Twig this week in Google, episode 799. Recorded Wednesday, december 18th 2024. What's a basketball? It's time for Twig this week in Google, the show. We cover the latest news from Google and all the Google-verse, including the Twitter-verse, the X-verse, the Ob-verse and the Reverse. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the performer, not former still emeritus professor of journalistic innovation at the craig newmark graduate school of journalism at the city university of new york, emeritus but going forward professor at suny stony brook, the state State University of New York. So you move from city to state, which is good, and the Montclair, new Jersey Montclair, is state state. So you got New Jersey state and New York state because I'm mad at the people.
0:01:36 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know these private snotty things I know education.
0:01:40 - Leo Laporte
Do you ever want to be at the Berkman Center anywhere like that? I love them.
0:01:43 - Paris Martineau
They're great yeah yeah good people that would require a living in boston baston.
0:01:48 - Leo Laporte
Well, that is paris I was up for uh a deanship at bu, and oh, that would be cool.
0:01:54 - Jeff Jarvis
Boston I like what's wrong with boston.
0:01:57 - Leo Laporte
It's nice, I just didn't want to move it's nice, you new yorkers, it's just no new jersey. This is the center of the universe. Have you seen? Okay, that's paris martin. No, she writes for the information the weekend and the information. Have you seen? We had emily forlini on twitter on sunday and, uh, she is in new jersey also and was complaining about the drones. Have you seen the drones, jeff?
0:02:18 - Paris Martineau
I heard one over toward bedpinster, but I have not seen them apparently have been I know that I brought up the drones last week, but I will say I've since been. Many of the things people are saying are drones are clearly airplanes and helicopters and I'd like to, you know, issue a mild correction when I talk about drones, not talking about those there are.
0:02:39 - Leo Laporte
How do you know the?
0:02:40 - Paris Martineau
difference. There are a lot of instances where someone is like I, five minutes ago just saw a drone.
0:02:47 - Leo Laporte
Here's a video from my um and it's an airplane home in this city.
0:02:52 - Paris Martineau
And then someone looks up the flight path uh, the stuff on flight aware. And there was a hell of a plane right above their um house at the exact same time you can hear a drone sounds different.
0:03:03 - Jeff Jarvis
I get. I get helicopters over here a lot, I think probably because we're near trump's golf course, um, but you can hear the difference between a drone and a helicopter uh, so okay, do we have any thoughts about the drones?
0:03:17 - Leo Laporte
I'm so sick of them I'm so damn sick of do we even care, stupid? No, we spent some time. So you know what we spent most of the time on twit on sunday, talking about, by the way, paris is going to be on twit our year-end episode this sunday very high if your plane makes it if my plane makes it, I will be there.
0:03:34 - Paris Martineau
I'm cutting it close, but we'll see. Hopefully the elite, if you're a little late.
0:03:38 - Leo Laporte
It's okay, we have other people too. Father robert balacera.
0:03:42 - ChatGPT
Yeah will they be?
0:03:42 - Leo Laporte
there. Micah sergegent will be there and Richard Campbell from Windows Weekly, so it's going to be a good panel, and if you're a little late, no one will be the wiser.
0:03:53 - Jeff Jarvis
However, if you're not there, it's a mantle, so you have to be there.
0:03:57 - Leo Laporte
That's true. You are there to break up the sausage fest. What did you call it? A mantle? Yeah, I like mantle better. You've what'd you call it a mantle.
0:04:08 - Benito Gonzalez
Yeah, I like better you've never heard of that. You've never heard of a male.
0:04:10 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh I've got it around for decades, and boy, you get in trouble with your own, my time oh no, not anymore well, we try to get as diverse a panel as we can or man, given as we are what we are, given that we are a tech network which so paris, I've got a question for you, um be honest, because we're going to hear soon about the gifts we discussed last week, and I was wondering because the gifts have some surprise element. What that tells me is that you know that no friend of yours ever watches any of this oh yeah, I'm sorry.
0:04:45 - Paris Martineau
I this is a great show. I love it. I am not in the business of recommending three-hour podcasts featuring myself to my friends why the? Hell not I don't know be egotistical. I mean, I don't recommend it to people who are not, who don't spend multiple hours a day in communication with me. But you know, when people ask me for the link I send to them, people ask me for information, then I'm like oh yeah, I love it, love twig the voodoo.
0:05:12 - Jeff Jarvis
I am the reason it's not a mantle that's true and that would do do they ever ask you paris, what is this crazy podcast you're on with your grandpa's? What? What they don't know about what?
0:05:22 - Paris Martineau
you're doing people are like, oh, that's the podcast with jeff jarvis, that guy who's mad online all the time. Right, I'm like, yeah, it's either mad online or luminary, it's like one of the other one of the other, or salt hanks dad that's true.
Actually the men, the men I've met in new york do know you more as salt hanks dad than leo laporte. Actually it's kind of split. Some of them are like, oh my god, leo laporte, I'd watch. The men I've met in New York do know you more as Salt Hanks' dad than Leo Laporte. Actually it's kind of split. Some of them are like, oh my God, leo Laporte, I'd watch him all the time. I remember him.
0:05:51 - Jeff Jarvis
The other people are like.
0:05:51 - Paris Martineau
Salt Hanks' dad.
0:05:53 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, now the big news is Leo you know that Paris now needs to open a bakery next to Salt Hanks' restaurant. That would be great, because Paris is an award-winning baker. That's true, wait a minute. I am there was award winning.
0:06:09 - Paris Martineau
There was a. The information had our annual holiday bake off this week yesterday actually and I entered and I won. I made a coconut caramel tart, which is one of the New York times new new pies of the year.
0:06:26 - Leo Laporte
It's kind of like the you made the pie of the year.
0:06:30 - Paris Martineau
I love it like the girl scout cookie known as caramel delight or samoa, depending on where you're from good. They're my favorite girl scout cookie. Um, and it's a tart that tastes exactly like it. Um, there's my God. There's a photo of it in the Where's the story?
0:06:46 - Leo Laporte
It's not on the information. Did they not publish this? They should have here. I'll put my. Do I have to upgrade to pro so I can see the pictures of the?
0:06:54 - Paris Martineau
The bake-off. Bake-off. Yeah, let me it's in there.
0:06:58 - Jeff Jarvis
It's in there, scooter X put it up. Oh, scooter x, okay, at 5 20. Oh, it's you, uh, you, uh, you x'd it. Oh, look at that, that does look good. So paris kept the suspense going. We saw this and I'm wondering which one did paris make, because I couldn't read.
0:07:13 - Leo Laporte
Well, now that we know it's a samoa I'm thinking it's these two here, yes it is yes the pie of the year, paris coconut caramel tart year.
0:07:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Paris coconut caramel tart. Kristin s'mores bark, that looks like a good.
0:07:31 - Leo Laporte
That was really good, that one. It looks beautiful. Here's cory's ghetto, breton. It's in french and he has a spring form, which is pretty fancy his boyfriend is like a master baker, so we were all andrew make this and he's like and he's like.
0:07:43 - Paris Martineau
This year I made it myself, but he has all the baking equipment this year?
0:07:47 - Leo Laporte
yeah, he's definitely this year.
0:07:49 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, yeah, we'll go a little showing.
0:07:52 - Leo Laporte
I don't know my first year entering it and uh fudge, brownie, banana bread sounds pretty darn good we were all in a sugar coma yesterday I bet I'm zooming in. You realize I'm zooming in on the recipes.
0:08:04 - Paris Martineau
I mean that's, that's kind of yeah, you got to do it.
0:08:06 - Leo Laporte
Got to do. It Looks good, paris, congratulations.
0:08:10 - Paris Martineau
Major honor. It's a major award. An entire half of a pie I've got to consume.
0:08:18 - Leo Laporte
You didn't leave it there, you took it home.
0:08:20 - Paris Martineau
Well, I had two pies. One and a half were eaten and all the other stuff was going to go in the trash. So I was like, I guess, I'll take it home sure meanwhile, I'm as long as I'm on x.
0:08:33 - Leo Laporte
New jersey drone mystery security concerns and missed official reassurances trending right now. Mysterious drones, some described as car size, have been spotted across new jersey. Jesus christ biden says there's nothing nefarious about the sightings. Okay, joe, but what are they?
0:08:55 - Jeff Jarvis
well, the thing is, who was it? I saw on the air on msbc earlier today where they said one guy was a drone expert. I don't know what that means. Uh, regularly checks them and had like 3 000 a year over their, their house. There's drones, all the time, there's drones. So that's.
0:09:11 - Leo Laporte
It strikes me a little bit. It's like a mass hysteria, like the, the salem witch trials, where you know people start talking about it. Then you say I saw him. And then you say and then it's it, balloons, but it's probably nothing. I don't know. I don't know. We, we spent a considerable amount of time.
0:09:29 - Paris Martineau
Emily forlini said they should shoot them down and I said no wait, no, hold on no, that's the most new jersey response she's already jersey, yeah that's what she said.
0:09:39 - Leo Laporte
She said, yeah, shoot them down. Uh, but what we spent the most time talking about because kathy gallus was on and debating a hot debate over the tiktok ban and kathy's firm opinion is that, uh, it is a first amendment right that you cannot, the government cannot, shut down tiktok, uh she. The rest of the panel disagreed kind of violently almost, as usual I'm on team kathy as as I am, you know in general. I mean, she's a supreme court admitted attorney, so she certainly well, the supreme court has decided to take the case.
Not only take the case, but on a rush basis they are going to hear the tiktok ban. The oral arguments will be on the 10th january 10th and that's an expedited timeline so that they can rule before the law takes effect nine days later I know we're not gonna get political, but I just want to say they they expedited t TikTok but they didn't expedite the presidency at all.
0:10:46 - Jeff Jarvis
that was around that, but okay.
0:10:49 - Leo Laporte
Hey, they got their priorities.
TikTok had been denied in federal appeals court, they asked for a stay, which forced them to go to Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said in a brief order that the justice department and lawyers for tiktok, as well as a group of users who separately challenged the law. That was the interesting thing is you get a lot of tiktok users like people salt hank didn't do it, but people like salt hank who have found real value in being on tiktok. They should be prepared to argue whether the ban passed by congress violates the first amendment.
0:11:24 - Jeff Jarvis
So it's going to go right straight down that that alley, uh, that kathy gallis argued so vehemently I think there's a chance that the repeal of that law will go through with the uh continuing resolution in the house, because trump said that he like he said he has a warm spot and the ceo of tiktok is visiting him.
0:11:45 - Leo Laporte
I think there's going to be something that'll happen it was right after the TikTok CEO visited him that he said he had a warm spot.
0:11:51 - Paris Martineau
But I mean, I'm confused as to what Trump, saying something like he has a warm spot for, could even do he started the whole thing, yeah but it's already in motion. It's been passed by Congress. The day that all this is happening is one day before Trump takes office.
And companies from ByteDance to any like both Apple, google, as well as any ISP that is found to be hosting TikTok, can be charged, I think, somewhere around like $ five thousand dollars per user accessing it per day. Like these are massive fines that these companies are going to want to avoid. How is trump going to stop that?
0:12:32 - Jeff Jarvis
can I ask this question? I mean, couldn't his justice department say we're not going to enforce this law?
0:12:37 - Paris Martineau
I mean yes, but I don't know. Is that going to happen under his orders? He might do it that's an interesting thought.
0:12:46 - Leo Laporte
So they could just it could remain the law.
0:12:49 - Paris Martineau
It'd be a little, they didn't just pay no attention to it, but yeah but I'm curious then what happens on the 19th, because that's when, ostensibly, this all takes the day before inauguration day so are those companies all just going to chance it on the fact, on the hope that Trump let's say Trump comes out and says I'm definitely not going to enforce it when I take office with those companies? Chance those sort of fines on Trump's word?
0:13:15 - Leo Laporte
I don't know. The Biden administration has said already to both Google and Apple your stores will take down the app. So that's how they, how they enforce it. By the way, the app.
0:13:27 - Paris Martineau
So that's how, that how they enforce it. By the way, you can't that would remove. That would remove the app from the app store for like updates or being accessed by new users.
0:13:31 - Leo Laporte
That wouldn't remove the app from iphones and androids well, it is an interesting point, it it in effect may this so-called security decision makes it an insecure app. Now that's not getting catches on millions of phones in the us, so that's not a good outcome either did kathy predict, from a political perspective, what the court will do that? She had no, uh, she had no expectation, she just did not know she just was her own opinion.
We will ask her again because I'm sure she'll listen to the oral arguments on the 10th and I'll be very curious what she has to say about those. So plan on getting kathy back on, uh, this show probably. Uh, well, see, we're going to be on the air on the 8th that the arguments are on that friday, the 10th.
0:14:16 - Benito Gonzalez
Uh, maybe the following uh, following the 15th, we can get kathy on.
0:14:20 - Leo Laporte
But, you know, maybe you should see if you can get her on hi kathy, um, because then there'll be a big question mark what's going to happen between then and the 19th? By the way, this ties in with a story that broke today that US officials are investigating a Chinese manufacturer of a routing device routers that are not only best sellers in Amazon but have 65% of the US market the TP-Link routersers. I bet many of you are using tp link routers. I have tp link hardware. Uh, it was recommended by wire cutter, is the best router has been for years. Uh, it's the best selling router on amazon and it has been linked, apparently according to the wall street journal, to chinese cyber attacks. Uh, it's a. It's really nice. They make great gear. I use their tp link. I used to use their tp link power line.
0:15:13 - Jeff Jarvis
Uh, networking, uh stuff and we've known there were chinese forever, right, well, everything's, I hate to tell you.
0:15:20 - Leo Laporte
Even if you buy it from belkin, chances are it's manufactured in china. Uh, authority investigators at commerce, defense and justice have all opened their own probes into the company. Authorities could ban the sale of tp link routers in the us next year. Now the difference here there's no first amendment issue, um and and there's a long-standing tradition. We've we've blocked huawei equipment. In fact, we've we're spending billions. The Biden administration has allocated, I think, another $8 billion, something like that, to rip and replace for network operators that have Huawei equipment in their stack. Huawei is a Chinese manufacturer of not only cell phones, phones, but also equipment used in 5g networks. The, an office of the commerce department, has subpoenaed tp link. According to some people familiar with the matter, quoted by the wall street journal, action against the company would likely fall to the incoming trump administration.
An An analysis from Microsoft published in October found that a Chinese hacking entity maintains a large network of compromised network devices, mostly TP-Link routers. Now I have to point out, if you listen to our show Security Now, the many routers, including routers from Netgear and other not Chinese companies, are vulnerable and not patched. Netgear has a number of popular routers out there that they've said we're not going to patch them. We know there's a flaw in them. You should just buy a new router. So these cyber attacks are launched on older routers, unpatched routers of all stripes. So the fact that oh well, you know compromised TP-Link routers are present in some of these you know botnets is not really any different than anything else.
Right Journal says TP-Link routers are routinely shipped to customers with security flaws. Tp-link routers are routinely shipped to customers with security flaws. Again, what they don't say is this is very, very common. When you get hardware, almost always the first thing you have to do is apply an update. Very often those updates are to fix security flaws, as discovered wall street journal says the company often fails to address those security flaws. According to people familiar with the matter I'm guessing somebody in commerce While routers often have bugs regardless of their manufacturer, tp-link doesn't engage with security research concerned about them. The people said I'd like to see who those people are. I think we're rapidly moving to a time when, uh, anything made in china is going to be suspect is this uh legitimate, or is it a get ready, get ready moral panic?
well the chinese, as the us is using the standby god no, god, please no no, what's that from that's?
0:18:27 - Paris Martineau
the office oh, I thought it was you could you, can we get a clip of that jeff so that nina can put it in the next one? That's really good. Oh god, no, please, no, how's that?
0:18:40 - Leo Laporte
yeah, that's great, that's good li ping you, a spokesperson for the chinese embassy in washington, says the us was using the guise of national security, to quote suppress chinese companies. So it could be moral panic, could be xenophobia, could be an economic, could be warfare, or it could be legit. It probably is legit. Here's the thing. It it's easy to say all of those things about any router at this point. I mean when Netgear says yeah, we know there's an exploit in millions of routers that we sold over the years, but we're not going to patch them because they're old. Same thing. Now. That's a taiwanese company. Here's the story. Uh, actually this is funny. This netgear story has happened many times. Here's one. From 2021, thousands of netgear routers can be hacked. Here's what to do. Um, I know a lot of people listening. I have netgear routers or have had over the years, and asus, you've had every kind of router there ever was.
Yeah, they're good um, and so this is the story from bleeping computer. Asus warns of critical remote authentication bypass on seven routers. Now the deal is, this happens all the time as Asus, in this case, is updating the firmware. Unless it's an end-of-life router, netgear will update it. But unfortunately Netgear, for instance in the WNR614 router this came out earlier this year allows device takeover no fix available over no fix available. So this is not at all unusual in the router world where after a while these companies go eh, we're not going to fix it. D-link won't fix critical bug and 60,000 exposed end-of-life modems. This one's from November, just a couple of a month ago and they won't fix it. D-link is, I think, taiwanese. I wonder who owns Netgear? Probably Taiwanese. That's not China, by the way. They're an ally. Netgear is based in San Jose, california, a known Chinese hangout, tp-link. I guess one of the big deals here is tp link is dominant 65 of the us market.
0:21:12 - Paris Martineau
wow, well, I mean, that's what, being the first result in the amazon, I'll get you yeah, and, and a wire cutter pick for years I wonder who makes my filesios router.
0:21:23 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't even know yeah.
0:21:25 - Paris Martineau
I was going to say I also just have a Fios router that I didn't even pay for. When the guy came to set up Fios in my current apartment, he just left one of their fancy new routers in my home.
0:21:37 - Leo Laporte
It may be TP-Link. Tp-link has partnered with more than 300 internet service providers to provide the router that's mailed to new homes. Let's sign up for their services. Tp link routers supply everything from the, from nasa to the defense department to the dea. The routers are sold online at on the, on the px, on military exchanges, um, um, I, you know what. We should do something about this. There's 65 percent of the households out there, but, uh, this is problematic in the law.
Taiwan did ban tp link routers from government and educational facilities, so has india, or at least india's, warned about them us? Okay, now here's the important quote you. This is again from the wall street journal.
0:22:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Us officials have not disclosed any evidence that tp link isa witting conduit for chinese state-sponsored cyber attacks, and american router companies have also been linked to major hacks so the guardian had a story today about how you shouldn't, how your your air fryer is a policy violation and saying over all kinds of information, and I no longer know how to judge these things. Evidently it ties to your phone and your phone can then send your audio up to the air fryer manufacturer and it's in china and your air fryer is at risk and you should never do this air fryers are the latest surveillance threat you didn't consider from Malwarebytes Labs.
0:23:11 - Leo Laporte
So I got to tell you that almost every appliance now is has an app and is connecting to the internet. My, my refrigerator, my, my stove, my oven, you bake those pies in that oven. It's going to tell china uh, my toothbrush, everything in the house.
0:23:33 - Jeff Jarvis
I have 99 internet connected devices in my home alone, and tp lake is telling china about it right now well, that's the thing I mean.
0:23:44 - Leo Laporte
I use ubiquity equipment, which is an american company, but where do you think ubiquity makes that equipment? Well, yeah, or any of the equipment, or your air fryer, any of that ubiquity is based in new york city, so you know it's okay. Well, it's the center of the universe. Yes, nothing bad has ever happened here I wonder where ubiquity makes its, uh, its products. I bet you it makes them in china, right, I mean apple. Look at this iphone is made in china designed in california yeah, but the malware has been inserted in china.
So that's the question, I guess, is how do you solve this problem? Do we stop? You can put a 60 tariff on everything shipped from china.
0:24:31 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, and well then, you won't get any, any modems because nobody here is.
0:24:36 - Paris Martineau
Nobody here is making them. Yeah, you have to go back in time and stop globalization doesn't germany make good stuff.
0:24:43 - Jeff Jarvis
I think somewhere I have my old acoustic coupler.
0:24:46 - Paris Martineau
I can try that what are you going to do with your 99 devices, leo? How would you determine which ones are and are not sending stuff to china?
0:24:58 - Jeff Jarvis
yeah, and what could possibly? No offense, leo, but what could china possibly care about anything in your house?
0:25:05 - Leo Laporte
well, I don. I don't think TP-Link. The issue with TP-Link or Huawei is privacy specific. It's infrastructure based, so TP-Link, for instance, routers can be used as many as many. In fact, not all routers are used in malware attacks because they create botnets with routers that have security flaws. You wouldn't necessarily know. Remember last year, the year before the FBI said everybody should turn their router off and on again?
0:25:31 - Paris Martineau
What Really yes, for what reason?
0:25:36 - Leo Laporte
Because let me see if I can find this story there was a very, very, very common malware exploit that lived in RAM, so this is from 2018. The FBI says you should reboot your router and there was a reason, because the malware lived in memory. So, if you rebooted it, the malware was called VPN filter. It had infected over half a million routers and network devices, Many of them not made in China Well, many of them not from Chinese companies. Maybe that'd be fair to say that. So, since you can't tell if it's been infected, oh yeah. So here's the manufacturers, just in case you want to know Linksys, microtech, netgear, qnap and TP-Link.
0:26:28 - Paris Martineau
So reboot this was 2018, some say it's still living on in the memory of old people's homes everywhere right.
0:26:37 - Leo Laporte
How often do you reboot your router?
0:26:40 - Jeff Jarvis
not frequently, especially now that I have a UPS on it and I have a generator. I don't yeah.
0:26:48 - Leo Laporte
The only time people reboot their routers is if their internet goes down and they think the router's to blame, so they'll restart their modem.
0:26:53 - Jeff Jarvis
That's also the first thing they tell you to do. Have you turned it off the router? Turn it on, wait, and why do you really have to wait 30 seconds?
0:27:09 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, because the electricity has to dribble out, uh, and so this is this gets. Sometimes it gets pulled up in the router and so if you wait 30 seconds it kind of dribbles out of the plug, don't?
0:27:14 - Paris Martineau
hang out on the floor. Yeah, you might have you got to get a rag so wipe it up, because nobody wants to spritz electricity up that electricity. A couple big licks will take care of it I mean, I'm not diminishing the the danger here.
0:27:29 - Leo Laporte
Uh, what do you do? It's everywhere. That's the problem we have. We have all agreed that we should connect everything in our house to the internet. By the way, the, I think, the primary reason for that. I told you that l sent back her Dyson hair curling iron because it required an app. It doesn't require an app. I know you could use it without the app, but but it says in the manual and everything install the app and control with the app. There's. There's probably a way to use it without the app, but it it's, it sure, implied that you needed the app. Why do they do that? Because they want to be on your phone where they can spy on you and then send it on well.
0:28:08 - Jeff Jarvis
It's the same as when you had to send in the warranty cards yeah, but this is much better.
0:28:13 - Leo Laporte
That's right. You know you still have the warranty, even if you didn't send in that post card, right. But they wanted your name and address and phone number so your phone's doing that for you conveniently. You don't have to send in the warning no, you don't get get those anymore.
0:28:24 - Jeff Jarvis
The app is probably not sending your name unless you've agreed to it. Probably not sending the data about you.
0:28:29 - Paris Martineau
It's probably sending your IP address, so they would know that somebody, your unique identifier on your device, which can be used to get all the other information, your IMEI or whatever, yeah, and then they cross-reference it.
0:28:48 - Leo Laporte
So Dyson says, oh yeah, well, we noticed somebody from that IP address ordered that device with this credit card number to this address. So now we've kind of got that IP address's address and credit card number and name.
0:28:57 - Paris Martineau
And your phone number. Oh yeah, I guess we needed a phone number for delivery didn't we.
0:29:01 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so they've got that and it's all about cross-referencing, and then either they use it or, more likely, it's a very valuable bit of information that they can send, sell to a data broker, and everybody's doing that. Now that's, I mean, it's uh, so I'm not worried about privacy so much. I think we just might as well give that up. If you want to worry about privacy, go live in a cabin in the woods and, whatever you do, don't have electricity.
0:29:32 - Paris Martineau
I don't know. I think that there's a way to care about privacy and still exist in a modern world. Like I have the time and know-how. So whenever I get stuff, I turn off all the settings. I go through every new app or service. I sign up and say like delete my information, don't use it for marketing purposes. And it's exhausting, but I do do it every time and I always double and triple check every year that my cell phone, as well as my internet provider, haven't sneakily turned back on the setting. That's like sell my browsing data or whatever, and I'm sure that doesn't make much of a difference.
0:30:05 - Leo Laporte
But well, see, that's the question is it makes you feel good and it makes you feel like you're closing down those avenues, but I feel like there's all these other avenues that you can't close down, that you don't know about, that are still exfiltrating your air fryer, like your air fryer.
0:30:20 - Paris Martineau
Well, but I bet you, you don't put your appliances on the internet. You don't get it, no, I specifically don't get appliances that are internet enabled, like I have a um breville ostensibly smart oven but I got one that doesn't connect to wi-fi. I did download the dyson app because it told me I needed it for setup. Then I realized it was really just videos of how to curl your hair, so I watched a couple because I did need to know that and I deleted the app ah, so you're smart.
0:30:46 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, um, yeah I don't know.
0:30:51 - Paris Martineau
It's uh frustrating, like I even. I'm very unconfident and I even found a setting I hadn't realized was there on instagram maybe it was new the other week about, uh, I turned off off platform ad delivery, um that I would see ads around the web.
0:31:09 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, from meta platforms yeah, that sounds good, uh, and I do all that stuff too, by the way. But and you know, apple put in that checkbox in medicine that cost us 10 billion dollars because of the you could turn off app tracking. But we know that meta still get information right and that, even if meta is not apple is right, the first parties always are. So I don't know, I feel like that information somehow it's magically getting out there, including your social and your address and so forth, and it's not just data breaches, I think it's, it's really getting out there. My breville coffee maker, uh, gets updates from the internet, so I want to have it updated, wouldn't want to?
coffee maker need updates what if it had a security flaw and the chinese government?
0:31:58 - Paris Martineau
and it shouldn't be connected to the internet to begin with, then it won't have any security flaws this is why I'm afraid to ever buy a new, new tv, because I have some delicious new coffee recipes I have a dumb tv and like, if I get a new one, you can't get a dumb tv anymore.
0:32:16 - Leo Laporte
No, there are no dumb tvs, so you just.
0:32:18 - Jeff Jarvis
I have a dumb tv is the new. I have a black white tv. Yeah, you're gonna hold on to it forever. Who needs this color? Hey, I got an idea I have that one too.
0:32:32 - Leo Laporte
We should start selling black and white tvs to the hipsters. This is an opportunity we're missing here.
0:32:43 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah and and phones like mine, I think a good old dial phone, yeah, yeah yeah, corded phones, that's in so what do we do?
0:32:58 - Paris Martineau
we faraday cage wrapped around your whole home see.
0:33:02 - Leo Laporte
But if you lived in rhode island, it doesn't matter that you turned off all that stuff, because an international cyber criminal group has harvested hundreds of the information of hundreds of thousands of people from the state's own social services and health insurance. So your mother is it on this? I'm like my mother's in this one.
0:33:23 - Paris Martineau
Listen, I mean, I just assume that my social security number is gone at this point.
0:33:29 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah, so what are you protecting? What do you feel like you're protecting against by going to these extra miles?
0:33:36 - Paris Martineau
I like to make it more difficult for companies to target me with ads and make money off my data.
0:33:43 - Leo Laporte
But why would you want to see ads that aren't targeted at you? Because you're going to see the ads. Just you're going to get ads for barbed wire fences instead of hair curling irons I think that's fun you're gonna get the ads like well actually actually a perfect transition if I wasn't doing so many weird things with my ads.
0:34:02 - Paris Martineau
I wouldn't get delightfully weird ads Like a sticker that says Italian.
0:34:10 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I love it. So your stickers came.
0:34:12 - ChatGPT
This is from last week's episode Shrimp no you were looking for something for a white elephant party and are you going to?
0:34:21 - Paris Martineau
give these away or are you going to keep?
0:34:22 - Leo Laporte
them Fully cooked.
0:34:25 - Benito Gonzalez
I want to put it on my forehead. Would you do me a favor?
0:34:27 - Leo Laporte
Just take one of those off and put it on your forehead. How many did? You get or do you not want to sully them?
0:34:31 - Paris Martineau
Well, I was thinking about not sullying them, but I do think it's pretty good.
0:34:34 - Leo Laporte
I think for our thumbnail for this episode we should have it's on here tight. I wish I had a sticker Last week.
0:34:41 - Jeff Jarvis
Last week wish we had stickers, we had it on our faces hey we did last week.
0:34:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah on the thumbnail oh don't take it off then, uh, apparently. Well, it's already off. We have the technology, the fully cooked paris martin. Oh, ladies and gentlemen, what other ones did you get?
0:34:58 - Paris Martineau
that's so cute uh italian good, and shrimp, and shrimp I wanted to get great for soup but it was from a different website that had like a 40 ordering minimum and I couldn't find any other stickers I like so I would have had to get great for soups. I would have had to get like four or five thousand packs of crate for soup and I felt like that was probably too much I I love the the topography of the fully cooked I mean, that's the thing.
0:35:25 - Jeff Jarvis
It's really good, it's shiny, it's got a lot going on yeah, it does it's pretty nice and I like just how minimalist shrimp is yeah, it's just shrimp it's just shrimp in like a sans serif font shrimp.
0:35:44 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, so this is going to be at the uh ski ball, uh white elephant party.
0:35:49 - Leo Laporte
Oh you're gonna give it away? I am, yeah.
0:35:51 - Paris Martineau
Well, that's, I think I would save one of them I don't know what are you gonna put them on, all your stuff at?
0:35:57 - Leo Laporte
home.
0:35:57 - Paris Martineau
I mean, that's not I mean, yeah, I'll cut one off and put them on my fridge probably not stuck in the fridge, but like magnet to the fridge. Yeah, fully cooked.
0:36:07 - Leo Laporte
It's so good. They're so non-sequitarian it's it really.
0:36:12 - Paris Martineau
And I mean, I just was scrolling through instagram and I saw a 500 pack of shrimp stickers and I want to live in that world all because I take credit targeting I take credit last week for pointing this out that this was the it was an incredible sausage which is just too obvious.
0:36:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, no, that is too.
0:36:30 - Paris Martineau
It was right under your nose a giant sausage well, a yard of beef and I've seen people commenting yard of beef.
0:36:39 - Leo Laporte
It's specifically yard, so get it right because it's from the, it's from ireland, I guess, did you?
0:36:46 - Jeff Jarvis
know that there is caffeine, uh, caffeinated, uh jerky called.
0:36:52 - Leo Laporte
The brand name is perky jerky oh I think they thought of the name before this.
0:36:59 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, yeah, I I went to speak about how to be googly to a conference of truck stop owners and I wandered the convention floor in Vegas and there was perky jerky.
0:37:14 - Leo Laporte
Whoa, wait a minute. Okay, we got to back up a little bit on this.
0:37:18 - Jeff Jarvis
So the International Conference of Truck Stop Owners and I was giving the keynote on how to be a googly truck, truck stop hold on there's so much there to unpack there is there is indeed well, how big a
0:37:33 - Paris Martineau
conference is this? So that's a pretty big conference.
0:37:37 - Leo Laporte
There is a forbes article that says how perky jerky the caffeinated beef jerky lost its perk oh, oh no, because I feel like, yes, it is the kind of thing a truck stop would sell is perfect after experimenting with different sources of caffeine, including a failure extracting coffee beans.
0:37:58 - Paris Martineau
Levin, I think the CEO and founder, landed on Guara Guarana yeah, yeah, that's what's in there that brazilian berry grown in south america. Yeah, with guarania flavoring. Early versions of perky jerky in 2009 included as much as 150 milligrams of caffeine per bag more than a cup of coffee and he marketed his product as such.
But the usda had something to say about that, telling perky jerky in 2010 that the company couldn't advertise guarana on its packaging and the stimulant was approved only as a flavor additive not as an energy list this is why RFK Jr is going to save this country and get the regulators out of the pocket of the jerky industry and you can quote me um, they still sell jerky but levin stripped perky jerky packaging of its uh key differentiator cut down on the amount of guarana in its manufacturing and the dose of caffeine dropped accordingly, first to around 50 milligrams, but now below 20 less than your average cup of tea, okay not very perky at all I think this warrants an investigative journalism report.
0:39:09 - Leo Laporte
You need to go out and look at trucking accidents and the rise of trucking accidents since guarana was taken out of perky jerky and correlate those in a graph with fluoride.
0:39:22 - Paris Martineau
It doesn't contain any caffeine at all.
0:39:25 - Leo Laporte
It's not perky at all. It's not perky, it's just jerky. It's so not perky. It's bold and tender, but it's not perky. Wow, that's devastating. Why would you buy it? Because you think it's still perky? You know, what you could do is buy that and a cup of coffee. You'd have the 200 milligrams of caffeine. You've been looking for?
Yeah, look, they have some recipes. You might bring this to the next bake-off. How about halftime club sliders made of perky jerky? Or a holiday charcuterie jerky board? Mmm, loaded jerky fries, perky quesadillas stuffed mini peppers. This is good, this is good. I'll uh, I'll uh, save you a bookmark and send it on, wait, wait.
0:40:19 - Jeff Jarvis
There was a vegan thing there. How can it be vegan if it has jerky?
0:40:23 - Leo Laporte
oh, now you're asking the difficult questions. Yeah, let's take a break, uh, while you all try to digest the turkey perky jerky do they have turkey perky jerky? They have savage jerky too I can't believe the fda wouldn't let them put caffeine in their jerky.
0:40:46 - Paris Martineau
Doge is going to really change everything about Doge is going to fix everything.
0:40:51 - Leo Laporte
I do have to say that in this probably foolish hope, in the back of my head, I have this thought maybe they, maybe they, maybe it'll all be bad, maybe they will fix everything. There are a lot. It is a big bureaucracy, the federal bureaucracy.
0:41:04 - Jeff Jarvis
We're about to get a government shutdown, thanks to musk. What he's killing, he's, he's, he's stopping the, the, the uh, funding musk is not the president trump's, not even the president. What is?
0:41:18 - Leo Laporte
how, how does this happen?
0:41:20 - Jeff Jarvis
because he's pressuring the gop. There's too much, too much. Ramos says there's too much wasted money in this, so we're not going to pay our debt so that people won't lend us money.
0:41:32 - Leo Laporte
So that profit. Step three profit.
What is what that does to inflation. It's not, by the way, that bill. We don't cover this. Let's go back to routers or something. We need some jerky, jerky. You're watching this week in Google desperately trying not to be political. It's not an easy you keep, you keep bringing this stuff up. You keep bringing this stuff up. And easy, you keep, you keep bringing this stuff up. You keep bringing this stuff up. Uh, our show today brought to you and quite literally brought to you by our good friends at CacheFly.
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0:46:03 - Jeff Jarvis
Can I ask you a question about one device?
0:46:05 - Leo Laporte
You can ask me about my YouTube TV going up $10 a month.
0:46:10 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh yeah, okay yeah. What is it? What's it cost now?
0:46:15 - Leo Laporte
$83 a month. Yeah, we yelled at cable companies, right right, because it was out of hand. Well, now I have an internet plan from comcast and basically an 83 a month cable bill and do you get any premium chat?
0:46:33 - Jeff Jarvis
do you get hbo or anything for that?
0:46:35 - Leo Laporte
no well, you get like it's basically it's basic cable, so you get like some off you know weird stuff. You get the get all the locals, which is why I do it. Do you get the cutlery? Corner I don't think you get the cutlery corner, but you do. There are some home shopping. I don't know. I might, you might oh, paris.
0:46:52 - Jeff Jarvis
Have you ever done any home shopping the tv?
0:46:54 - Paris Martineau
I've never bought anything from the tv. I've never bought anything from the tv, but I do watch the cutlery corner once a year with my friends you guys are so cute, you just you're so, you're so brooklyn.
0:47:08 - Leo Laporte
They're such hipsters. Yeah, let me go to uh my youtube tv, because I can actually uh, that's one of the other thing. I like it. I can watch it on any advice. And let me go to the channel uh listing here and you can see. I get abc, I get a acc network. I guess that's college football the cronks christmas with the cronks. You don't want to miss that. This is all reality. We tv amc, amc thrillers. So yeah, there's a lot of stuff raw I think you need to see that.
0:47:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Now it's lock up raw, that's on american crimes channel.
0:47:43 - Leo Laporte
That's on a crimes channel. There's animal planet, bbc america, bbc news, bet. So you see I get a lot of channels. It's basic, this is basic.
Cable right, cartoon network, cheddar watch mad money huh, yeah, you see, and don't you like the interface where it shows the video as it. You know that's nice. Yeah, yeah, I like the interface. It's got a they've messed with this library feature, but it's got a dvr so you can you know, you can record your fox news on here and and watch it at your leisure, that kind of thing, I'm sure that's what you're doing.
0:48:14 - Paris Martineau
What sort of channels do you watch?
0:48:16 - Leo Laporte
well, um, we, you know I pay speaking 83 a month. I pay 250 extra for the nfl sunday ticket, so all the football games is that, forgive me?
0:48:29 - Paris Martineau
is that like a one-time charge, or is that?
0:48:31 - Leo Laporte
yeah, that was once, once per season, so six months. So that's another 40, and then I think I pay extra for 4k gotta have those extra pixels do you pay for any tv?
0:48:47 - Paris Martineau
no, I pay for streaming services which one?
0:48:55 - Leo Laporte
well, you're smart and I think anybody under under 68 is gonna.
0:48:57 - Benito Gonzalez
Which is the letter your tv is dead, yeah, yeah, they're not we're, we're all huh, honestly thing for live tv sports.
0:49:02 - Paris Martineau
That's the only reason I have youtube tv for the nba season yeah, and I like the golden globes and I like the oscars and I pay for I guess I just did a summary in my head, I think for streaming service with an asterisk one is taskmaster super max plus, which is the streaming service just for all taskmaster shows highly recommend. Second is dropout, which we've talked about. It's like all the dimension 20 and the college humor, like type shows that they have fantastic.
Another is the criterion channel great I love the criteria that I would say, is the asterisks is I recently subscribed to a local cinema here that does like arthousey stuff called the metrograph, but they also have their own like streaming platform where they will have occasionally like interesting movies on there, and I subscribe to it because I can get discounted theater tickets but you don't do netflix there, you don't do hulu, you don't do you're leaving out the most important one though paris.
0:50:01 - Leo Laporte
I know you are youtube I don't know youtube tv, but youtube no, you don't pay for youtube premium. I don't like watching videos, oh, well then, you're different yeah, I'm broken in that I would say youtube for your generation? Oh, definitely, everybody watches.
0:50:19 - Paris Martineau
That's what they watch is youtube I know that I am, uh, an unusual person for not paying for youtube and not being a big youtube person. I just, I don't know. I never got the bug and I think that's probably good down online 174.
0:50:35 - Jeff Jarvis
I have the youtube uh replay of the.
0:50:38 - Leo Laporte
Oh, they did that again this year.
0:50:40 - Jeff Jarvis
So they stopped for a while, didn't they? It's not like this video. It's just text. It's just text. Viewers globally streamed over 1 billion hours of content daily on their TVs. This is the point that it's moved. Youtube has moved to the living room.
0:50:56 - Leo Laporte
This is the year of the living room. Not a surprise. I mean, I knew this was coming. The living room, yeah, this is the year of the living room. Not not a surprise when I I mean I knew this was coming when I saw my son 15 years ago and he was sitting with his friends, you know, in middle school, watching youtube music on the tv. They weren't.
0:51:10 - Jeff Jarvis
They don't watch, they're not watching anything podcast watching is growing rapidly on tvs yep picture that viewers watched over 400 million hours of podcasts monthly on living much like what we're doing right here people laughed at me because we've been doing video since 2008 or 2009 and they said you're a podcast.
0:51:31 - Leo Laporte
Why are you doing that's not what are you doing video for? And for a long time I felt kind of guilty, like that was a big part of our cost was the studio and the cameras and the people who operate all that equipment.
0:51:42 - Jeff Jarvis
And now it turns out I was way ahead of the game share of videos uploaded to youtube in 4k is up by 35 year over year. Yeah, I believe that that's part of the living room factor. Yeah, um the number.
0:51:55 - Leo Laporte
We are not in 4k, I might add. We are, we're not barely in 1080, I think. Well, hello, no one needs us in 4k. Uh I guess focus this week.
The reason we're not in 4k right now. It used to be because we didn't have the cameras and the tricaster wasn't, but now because we're streaming on restream and this, we're doing this on um zoom. It's not. Zoom is not 4k. I think that we don't have as soon as those had 4k to be no reason we couldn't well my camera's 4k gigantic. It's kind of, yeah, the file size would be giant. Yeah, nobody's demanding 4k. I'm gonna regret that. I asked no fun to edit a.
Yeah, it's a pain to edit no one needs to see all of those pores you already see too many pores as far as I'm concerned, I'm gonna back up a little bit. Let me sit back here. Um, you look fine, you're young, you don't have to worry. You look fine. The best makeup is youth, that's true.
0:53:00 - Paris Martineau
The next best makeup is vaseline I will, though, starting january, being subscribed into a mainstream streaming service. I'll be subscribing to the to a peacock for a month so I can watch the new season of the traders, yeah which is very important.
0:53:15 - Leo Laporte
Peacock is the has become the reality.
0:53:17 - Paris Martineau
I hate it because I don't think peacock is particularly good like I think their ui is awful. I think their name terrible. I don't like anything they're doing. But I do need to see the new season of traders. I need to see what fun I feel like netflix is worth it.
0:53:34 - Leo Laporte
You, I'm surprised you don't have netflix.
0:53:36 - Paris Martineau
Actually, I think a lot of people in your age demographic my parents have a net Netflix account that I ostensibly have access to, but I'm not going to.
0:53:43 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I forgot to mention the diplomat yeah. I did forget to mention that both my kids are watching Netflix on my account. I shouldn't say that out loud. Every once in a while I'll say who was watching that, and then I go oh, I know who was watching that.
0:53:57 - Paris Martineau
And then I go oh, I know who's watching that the last time I think I watched something on netflix was, uh, last november or december, because I tried to log in to the netflix on the tv and it's essentially my netflix account. I've just given it over to my parents because I don't use it anymore yeah, they're sharing your account they were.
The two people were watching it and so I called my mom. She's like, oh, I'm watching some show. Then I call my dad. He's in the other room watching a rerun of emily in paris. I'm like I have 10 people over to watch chicken run 2. You need to get off one of them.
0:54:30 - Leo Laporte
And they eventually did oh, you need a better account where you can have more streams.
0:54:35 - Paris Martineau
That's what listen that was once in a year, though I can't believe it happened a couple times you called them and said look, we need to watch chicken run 2.
0:54:42 - Leo Laporte
You got one of.
0:54:43 - Paris Martineau
You has to get off and my dad valiantly fell on his sword and was like I took you to chicken run 1 when you were just a baby. And I was like, yeah, I know, that's why we're watching chicken isn't that sweet.
0:54:53 - Leo Laporte
That's so sweet chicken run 2.
0:54:56 - Paris Martineau
A fine film, enjoyable time. The making of chicken run 2 phenomenal. It's like a 15 20 minute. Yeah, it's no, it's animated, but it's all claymation oh, a stop motion stop motion film. It took them like a over a. It took them like two decades to come out with chicken run 2, in part because the technology wasn't there for them to make and manufacture and operate that many little like clay chickens chickens aren't running.
0:55:25 - Leo Laporte
What are we gonna do?
0:55:26 - Paris Martineau
it's a the making of chicken run 2. It's like 15, 20 minutes I think. It's on youtube.
0:55:30 - Leo Laporte
Highly recommend it do you like the fantastic mr fox? Have you ever seen that? I love that yeah, I love and also that style yeah, and it's that claymation thing again.
0:55:41 - Jeff Jarvis
If Paris arrives in Florida, the Wallace and Gromit folks yeah. The.
0:55:45 - Paris Martineau
Wallace and Gromit folks are the people who do Chicken Run yeah?
0:55:48 - Jeff Jarvis
Okay, If Paris arrives in Florida in time for the holiday show. I'm really hoping for a guest appearance by her father.
0:55:56 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah, the legendary. Oh, tell him, we're going to sell him as a major international film star.
0:56:04 - Paris Martineau
He would be like. You don't need to sell me as that. I already am yeah he would his ego would go through the roof if he was on this show. I can't, I can't let it happen we're going to call him fabio martineau.
0:56:15 - Leo Laporte
And uh, ladies and gentlemen, the international film star you've seen him on screen and tv has decided to grace our holiday show. Ladies and gentlemen, the international film star you've seen him on screen and tv has decided to grace our holiday show, ladies and gentlemen, fabio martineau is here. Oh my god, we've never had such a big celebrity on the show oh man she's gonna be fun. He does look like.
0:56:38 - Paris Martineau
He does, he can also do the thing he would play along. I don't think it's going to happen, though I don't know if we need that in our lives.
0:56:46 - Jeff Jarvis
She's not going to allow it.
0:56:47 - Leo Laporte
Your mom won't allow it. She'll go get over here.
0:56:51 - Paris Martineau
She'll be like I'm already sacrificing one of you for three hours.
0:56:55 - Jeff Jarvis
There's another one that's gonna be gone oh how bad were they at uh at thanksgiving when you delayed the dinner this thanksgiving only got a couple.
0:57:06 - Paris Martineau
They went to dinner without me and left my sister behind to take me, and then she took a minute getting ready once I got it. I got on time this thanksgiving, so then by the time we were driving over we got like four texts like we're hungry, where are you?
0:57:23 - Leo Laporte
uh, you're watching this week in google with the daughter of fabio martineau. She's famous, her in her own right, as a reporter at the information paris martineau. Actually, he should, he should be like rome roma, that's true, yeah, and your mom could be geneva martin no, you got all the uh, all the places, yeah wonderful to have paris.
And, of course, jeff jarvis, congratulations on his new job. He's also the author of so many great books. You see them right there over his left shoulder the gutenberg parenthesis, the web we weave the latest and, of course, magazine and many others, including what would google do, which he's apparently still able to make a living off of by going around to truck stop conventions.
0:58:08 - Paris Martineau
It's kind of impressive and chewing on caffeinated jerky perky jerky on.
0:58:17 - Leo Laporte
We go with the show. Wordpress ceo matt mullenweg uh, lost a legal battle. A court ordered him and I'm actually now kind of in his court, so to speak. Oh, the court, a court ordered him to reinstate wp engine, which is a third party. You might think it's part of wordpress. It's not, despite the use of the kind of wordpress wp. And matt was so miffed that they did not contribute back to wordpress that they kind of wrote on wordpress's quote tales that he cut off their access to wordpressorg, the open source site for wordpress downloads, and and disabled their plug in that they had and so forth. He was so angry after the court's decision that he basically said I'm not going to do any more development on WordPress. That's it. He posted this on the on the Slack that's maintained by the open source project, but I thought his statement. Let me see if I can find it.
0:59:28 - Paris Martineau
Well, do you know what else he did, in addition to quitting the slack? What Emission the statement Now, in order to log previously, in order to log into WordPress, you'd have to say check a box saying I'm not affiliated with WP Engine.
0:59:42 - Leo Laporte
The court would take that off right.
0:59:45 - Paris Martineau
Now there's a checkbox that you have to hit where you agree that pineapple is delicious on pizza.
0:59:52 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I'm never checking that. That's it, I'm done.
0:59:56 - Jeff Jarvis
That's a Craig Newmark. Craig is a big defender of pineapple and pizza and you know, I'm I'm with craig, I'm on team craig for everything imaginable, but that I'm on, it's just too manufactured liquid yeah.
1:00:11 - Leo Laporte
So matt wrote on the slack before he said to delete my account. I it's hard to imagine wanting to continue to working on wordpress after this. I should point out matt mullenweg single-handedly wrote wordpress back in the day. I was an early user and he's been on the show and we love him. He said I'm sick and disgusted to be legally compelled to provide free labor to an organization as parasitic and exploitive as wp engine. I hope you all get what you and wp engine wanted his username is, but isn't this about?
1:00:45 - Paris Martineau
is this what open source is all about? You don't get to choose who is using it's open source.
1:00:52 - Leo Laporte
It's available to the community yeah, that's one argument, but but there's, remember the wp engine was purchased by silver lake, which is a private equity company, and I think that matt is correct that silver lake has taken that company and and basically said you know, you're not going to contribute back to wordpressorg, you're going to use everything without contributing back.
He didn't mulling started this back in september when he called wp engine, which is a web hosting platform that offers wordpress, a cancer to larger wordpress open source project. He said it improperly uses the wordpress brand. Um, I think he makes an excellent point. It really brings up a problem in open source, which is, yes, you can use it, you can even fork it. I mean, wp engine could have taken the wordpress source code, forked it, renamed it something else and modified it, but the license requires that they offer it back the same way and there is an unspoke unwritten, I think, but very important caveat that when you use a open source tool, that anything you add to it or modify should be contributed back, that your use of it should benefit the community is that unspoken or is that a condition?
1:02:18 - Jeff Jarvis
it's unspoken. What is? What is?
1:02:19 - Leo Laporte
in the gpl license. I don't know what license wordpress uses, but the the most common open source license is the gnu public license. What's in the gpl license is, if they call it, kind of a viral clause. But if you use this software, you have to make or modify the software. You have to make your modification available under the same license so that you can't just take it and make it private. People do that all the time, by the way. Um, and that's the problem. There's not much, it's not. You'd have to sue to enforce the license and there's not a lot of money going around in open source. Um, I, I'm increasing. I think the court made a mistake and I I think I understand Matt's being upset. This is also, unfortunately, very common in open source, where the founder or the main contributor leaves in a huff over some perceived slight. There will be a trial. By the way, this was just a preliminary injunction. There will be a trial. The way, this was just a preliminary injunction. There will be a trial. So he could still win.
1:03:23 - Paris Martineau
He could still win what is what's changed your mind on this leo?
1:03:27 - Leo Laporte
because I think before just the more I've read of it and the more I've read of what matt has to say about it. I always was predisposed towards matt because I really think he supports and believes in open source and he and wordpress is an amazing he's done so much, so much and I think he I think he went too far in saying you have to denounce your affiliation with wp engine before using w wordpressorg.
That was maybe a little too much. Uh, I think he would have been wiser just to raise the issue and say look, here is a private equity funded company that is sucking us dry without contributing back would have been a better way to go about this, but are they sucking it dry, or are they just not contributing?
so they're not contributing, but they're also, he feels, giving the impression that they are somehow part of the wordpress community, with this wp engine offering wordpress, so that in sucking them dry isn't right, but, but, but, riding on their coattails but what?
1:04:33 - Jeff Jarvis
what does wordpress lose because of they do that? I think what paris is asking properly what, what harm comes to wordpress?
1:04:36 - Leo Laporte
well, that's probably why the court ruled in WP Engine's favor, because there isn't really any harm. But it is ultimately harmful to the entire open source community if people use open source without contributing back, or they misuse it or they.
1:04:53 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I certainly think that if there's an issue of people getting confused for confused in wp engine and wordpress, that's definitely a problem yeah, they're not.
1:05:04 - Leo Laporte
Look at, this is neither here nor there, but people are saying, uh, in the discord, the wp engine is terrible. Hosting. You can get better with more control for half the money. As a former wordpress web, this is trust no land. As a former WordPress web, this is trust no. And as a former WordPress website design agency, I've always hated WP engine. Never had a client that was happy to to be with them. Everybody wanted to escape. So WordPress is GPL too. Okay, thank you for that out of sync. So maybe they're tarnishing the brand a little bit, especially if they don't discourage the notion that they're somehow part of WordPressorg.
1:05:44 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, that's a fair point.
1:05:46 - Leo Laporte
Maybe we should get Matt on to talk about it. I think he's really hopping mad, though, so I'm not sure he'd want to. He's really kind of withdrawn. It is a big thing for Matt Mullenweg to say it's hard to imagine continuing to work on WordPress after this. That's a big deal. That's.
That's huge, yeah yeah on the other hand, I have to say automatic, his company has done very well and made lots of money, um, enough money to buy tumblr and lose a lot of money trying to save it, which I supported uh, they, uh quite a few interesting um companies. They've done a pretty good job, I think, of acquiring, which means they had a pretty big war chest.
1:06:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Um it's, it's rather Craigslist. Like you know, you don't think this is a huge money making company, right? Right, it's not ripping people off.
1:06:40 - Leo Laporte
And so you wonder how do they get all this money? Because scale? Um, let me see in the companies that they have acquired. There is another developer, by the way, an english developer, mike little. I don't know anything or I've heard anything about his, what he thinks about all of this, but wordpress was really one of the very first modern web content management systems Very good one. Let's see. Who else do they own? I'm going through the Wikipedia article, which is very long. Matt and Mike were co-founders of the project. They are I don't know how active they are as current in the current development. Um, let me look at automatic.
1:07:27 - Paris Martineau
I'm looking at the wrong thing that's, I'm sure that it's a wikipedia page made even longer by all of the weird posting matt has done over the last couple of months yeah, so, um oh, woocommerce is one of theirs.
1:07:39 - Leo Laporte
They bought woocommerce, so that's a commerce uh site associated with wordpress. Um, they own gravatar. They own, uh, poll daddy, which is now called crowd signal. Um, tumblr yeah, day one oh, that's what it was, I was thinking it was day one which is now called CrowdSignal Better brand Tumblr, day One oh, that's what it was, I was thinking it was Day One which is a really good journaling app and they own the number one podcast. Yeah, they own the number one podcasting app for subscribers Pocket Casts. They bought that from Public Radio.
1:08:14 - Paris Martineau
I use Pocket Casts.
1:08:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's right.
1:08:17 - Paris Martineau
Do I have to like pineapple pizza now?
1:08:22 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, pocket cash. Yeah, that's right, they also do. I have to like pineapple pizza now. Yeah, uh, they also bought uh beeper, which is that messaging app that was translating between android and apple. Matt is the founder and ceo. Uh, he does have, you know, investors, so including true ventures. So, I don't, you know, it is a very complicated story. I'd love to hear matt's side more, but the more I read matt, the more I feel like, okay, there's some merit in this, and I can understand why he's so upset that the court said no, yeah, but that's not unusual, right, I'd be upset too. This is how it works in this country and there will be a trial, all right, I think so I should start putting in stories, yes, things that I like below. Yes, you put asterisks. Is that your new thing?
1:09:15 - Jeff Jarvis
you put a little star, I'd do it. Give me a gold star, yeah, so you can pick from them.
1:09:18 - Leo Laporte
There's one teens media, social media technology. Do you like this puce, this recent puce study? I didn't ask gross that, but go ahead. I asterisked it, man, because you're a boss. Well, I just think it's a kind of almost a shocker, uh and it does very much apply to this. Uh, discussion about youtube how to, how. What sites do teens use? Okay, so they surveyed us teens 13 to 17 years old. Youtube number one by far, but 90 percent down 95 percent uh last in 2022.
This year, 90 percent used the site. That's pretty dominant. But then tick tock, instagram and snapchat pretty much neck and neck. 60 percent use tick tock and instagram, 55 use snapchat for all the protestation that they're not on facebook.
1:10:15 - Jeff Jarvis
The third of them are on facebook.
1:10:17 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, third but not a lot. I think a lot of them are on it because, uh, you know their high school is on it or you know their groups are on it. 32 of teens say they use facebook, but that's a big time. That's down 10 years ago. 71. Only 17 of teens use x.
1:10:37 - Benito Gonzalez
That's half what it was a decade ago. The everything platform, yeah.
1:10:40 - Leo Laporte
The everything but teenagers platform. One quarter of teens say they use WhatsApp. That's up. 14% of teens use Reddit. That's been stable over the past few years, says Pew. We asked about threads For the first time this year. Only six percent of teens report using it, although you probably saw, mr zuckerberg says if threads has 100 million daily active users and close to 300 million monthly active users, is getting in the twitter twitter range now I'm curious as to how many of those people actually mean to go to threads and how many of them simply have swiped by the little thread carousel on instagram and accidentally clicked it. I've done it.
1:11:28 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, yeah, or even if you don't accidentally click it. If you just, like are swiping down and you accidentally go through a couple like, does that count as threads interaction I?
1:11:37 - ChatGPT
don't know, yes, zuckerberg, and the meta stuff has always been notoriously bad about counting numbers.
1:11:42 - Leo Laporte
If you just look at it. So yeah, consider that when he says a hundred million daily active users, 300 million monthly active users.
1:11:51 - Paris Martineau
Okay, so those stats we were just talking about were teens that reported using those platforms at all ever. These are the stats of teens that say they use these sites daily. 73 of teens say they use youtube daily yeah, not surprised yeah, 57 visit tiktok daily and about half go to instagram daily. That's 48. It's their tv it's their entertainment it's my entertainment.
1:12:19 - Leo Laporte
If I want something, a quick hit. I got you know. I'm waiting in line at the grocery store or whatever I I often will pull up, uh tiktok. Actually, I have to say less.
1:12:27 - Paris Martineau
What do you while using headphones, or are you just out there blasting? No, I turn off the sound no, I don't, I don't know.
1:12:35 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, no, I'm like, I like to sit on airplanes and blast my TikTok.
1:12:40 - Paris Martineau
You should hear this.
1:12:42 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I know Everybody needs to hear it. It's horrible. No, I don't. A lot of times I don't have the sound on, but most TikToks now have like captions, right, yeah, they do, yeah, but you do it without the sound.
1:12:58 - Paris Martineau
That's crazy. You should try it.
1:13:01 - Leo Laporte
I've done it, yeah, so much less stimulating you know, a woman in a bikini looks the same whether you got the sound on or the sound off that's all I gotta say. No, that's, I'm just playing up. Uh, I get the weirdest stuff on tiktok. Here's somebody, uh, it's not streaking. This is the Niners game, I don't know she's happy.
1:13:24 - Paris Martineau
I get a lot of Irish dancing. I don't know.
1:13:27 - Leo Laporte
Why do I get so much Irish dancing?
1:13:28 - Paris Martineau
Because you pause whenever you look at the legs, and that's what does it.
1:13:34 - Leo Laporte
How about? Would you like to buy a new rotating bookshelf, because I get a lot of ads also.
1:13:41 - Paris Martineau
A spiced carrot recipe.
1:13:44 - Leo Laporte
Ooh. Anyway, yeah, it's entertaining, right, Even with all those ads, and I have to say it's every other TikTok. Now Instagram and TikTok both have become massively inshittified TikTok.
1:13:57 - Paris Martineau
I understand it's their farewell performance have you guys been seeing on tiktok? I've been seeing the trend of, like a bunch of creators posting oh goodbye to the platform that made me everything. I'm no longer gonna have a job. I will say the only. Obviously I don't know. I hope the tiktok stays around. I enjoy using it, but also if it doesn't, that's fine by me. I would take a small bit of schadenfreude pleasure if tiktok goes away, because my sister is, I guess, an influencer, though she doesn't have that many followers, but she gets so much free stuff from brands through tiktok. Over thanksgiving she got like four giant boxes of fancy clothing from j crew for free, wow, like somebody's a couple thousand dollars.
1:14:49 - Leo Laporte
I am jealous, I'm how many followers does she have?
1:14:53 - Paris Martineau
like 10 000, 15 000, not that many for that much.
1:14:59 - Leo Laporte
This is what's really interesting because brands obviously are paying attention to these stats that we're talking about and they want to reach young people and they've just decided influencers are the last place we can go. We've got to go somewhere, yep. So this is where we have to go, and they're fairly indiscriminate, I think. I mean, hotels now are full of young people who haven't paid. We're going around shooting instas of everything in the hotel. It just seems like they're everywhere and they've fostered this kind of economy, influencer's economy. That's kind of making it no fun, to be honest, to travel All right, I'm just an old man shouting in the fun. To be honest, to travel All right, I'm just an old man shouting in the class. Don't listen to me, go on and do your little influencer thing. Although, do you know? My favorite Instagram account is influencers in the wild. Have you seen that?
1:15:51 - Paris Martineau
Oh no, but I bet that's great.
1:15:54 - Leo Laporte
It's always an influencer making a video, her boyfriend is shooting it, and then it's somebody off to making a video. Her boyfriend is shooting it, and then it's somebody off to the right going wow, this is crazy, I like the brits who are trying american food.
1:16:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, that sounds good. There's a bunch of them if you search for that what?
1:16:12 - Leo Laporte
what do they like and what don't they like?
1:16:14 - Jeff Jarvis
uh, they were a gog with chipotle like they loved it yeah, yeah, it's these huge american sandwiches. You know, and yeah, I'm, one of my problems, besides bridges, is people eating with their mouth open, can't stand it. So there's a lot of that on tiktok which bothers me this is, uh, influencers in the wild.
1:16:34 - Leo Laporte
It's just a lot of uh, you see people, oh god, you know it's, it's just influencers doing really dumb, annoying, annoying things. I, it's quite a. It's uh, it's certainly worth following. I would say, um, all right, jeff, we're gonna take a break when we come back. Asterisk city another, by the way, excellent wes anderson film asteroid city phenomenal, one of my favorites oh, I thought it was asterisk city.
You're watching this week in google with jeff jarvis, paris martineau and me. I'm deep, never mind, all right On we go with the show and asterisks galore. What are you? What do you? I haven't seen anything with asterisks.
1:17:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Where are they? Oh, I see them there.
1:17:31 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, but these are all things you submitted. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you know, there's not one asterisk next to my stories. Oh, okay, notebook LM has been modified. This is that feature, particularly that feature that makes a podcast out of everything you upload. Now you can interrupt them, which I think is an improvement. It's just like talk radio.
1:17:56 - Benito Gonzalez
Yeah, oh well, now it's better than that, because you get to decide when to interrupt.
1:17:58 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they have a little demo, but we're just, it's just like talk radio, yeah, oh well, now it's better than that, because you get to decide when to interrupt yeah, they have a little demo, just just very short where's the demo? Is it up here?
1:18:06 - Paris Martineau
uh, wait so do you interact with it? And then it was yeah, you can ask it a question.
1:18:10 - Leo Laporte
So here's here we go. I'll uh join your audio interviews to speak with the hosts, ask questions and get custom responses based on your sources.
1:18:18 - ChatGPT
These laws are like the rule book for how everything in the universe moves and interacts.
1:18:22 - Leo Laporte
So that's one of the Notebook LM hosts is a guy too.
1:18:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, she's busy because she doesn't call the show.
1:18:26 - Paris Martineau
Oh hey, I think our listeners got something to say.
1:18:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Can you explain the three laws of motion? Wait a minute.
1:18:33 - ChatGPT
So she's talking. These laws are like the rule book for how everything in the universe moves and interacts. Okay, oh, hey, I think our listeners got something to say.
1:18:46 - Jeff Jarvis
Can you explain?
1:18:51 - Leo Laporte
the three laws of motion with a basketball example. Sure, I can do that. Let's use a basketball. Imagine you're dribbling Newton's first law.
1:19:01 - Jeff Jarvis
That ball keeps moving until you, wow. Oh hey, our listeners got something to say.
1:19:03 - Leo Laporte
Somebody's listening I want to say that all the time now, right now. Oh, hey, scooter x has something to say. Hey, hey, they could make that maybe a little bit better. Yeah, they could, but it is nice that as. So I guess this is because people are using notebook lm to understand or, yes, ingest content, and so it's great that you could say well, wait a minute, explain that a little bit more, or something.
1:19:31 - Paris Martineau
It's very cool I love that they try and keep it in the podcast.
1:19:36 - Leo Laporte
Oh, hey, though our listener has something to say. It's a little where are you calling in from, joe? Yeah, uh, I learned in my many years as a radio talk show host.
1:19:57 - Benito Gonzalez
I am a recovering radio talk show host that it's better to be snotty than nice on the radio. What do you want?
1:20:01 - Leo Laporte
I think if you're too nice, people go ew. But if you go like okay, what do you got to say? Tell me, listen to the radio, you'll see that's there. That's the. They always have attitude.
1:20:09 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, well, I always assumed that was because you didn't want to invite small talk because that would take up time on the air absolutely.
1:20:18 - Leo Laporte
In fact, we used to have the call screeners. I never, I always told my call screener not to do this. We used to have the call screeners say okay, get to the point. Get to the point. Do not say, how are you doing, do not say any of that stuff that you would say in a normal conversation. Just say hey, leo, what's the story with this thing? Not hi, leo, love the show ditto.
You know all that stuff yeah, first time caller, long time, but I told my screeners don't say that, because that just shortens the show. It means I have to talk more. So have them do whatever they want, tell them to say nice things tell them to compliment me.
1:20:55 - Jeff Jarvis
Howard stern could not stand the. He used to scream about the. How are you howard? He finally gave up now he just thinks yeah, you just take it.
1:21:03 - Leo Laporte
It's worse to make a big deal out of it.
1:21:05 - Paris Martineau
Yes, it's better, just because they find what's up the thing that kills me is whenever I'm listening to someone call into a show or like some little like guest spot on it and the person is talking for way longer than they should. It makes me want to crawl out of my skin and like I can't listen to it. I'm so hyper cognizant of time whenever I'm on any sort of air, or on anybody else's show in particular, that it just it skeeves me out.
1:21:35 - Leo Laporte
Wow, that's interesting. All right, I'm going to make a phone call to my friend here. Let me just put this on the speaker.
1:21:42 - ChatGPT
Hi, I'm Chat GPT, an AI assistant. Just so you know, our conversation may be reviewed for safety. By continuing this call, you agree to OpenAI's terms and privacy policy. So how can I help you today?
1:21:55 - Leo Laporte
Can you explain Newton's third law in terms of basketballs?
1:22:02 - ChatGPT
Sure, newton's third law says that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.
1:22:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, and you could interrupt her too.
1:22:12 - Leo Laporte
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I didn't mean in basketball, I mean using basketballs.
1:22:20 - ChatGPT
Ah, got it. Let's use a basketball as an example.
1:22:23 - Leo Laporte
She's very patient.
1:22:24 - ChatGPT
Sure, Happy to explain further. Think of it this way when you throw a basketball against a wall, your throw is the action the ball hits the wall and the reaction is the ball bouncing back.
1:22:39 - Leo Laporte
Okay, okay, but what's a basketball?
1:22:44 - ChatGPT
A basketball is a round, usually orange ball, used in the game of basketball. It's made of rubber or synthetic leather designed to bounce and comes in different sizes for various levels of play.
1:22:56 - Leo Laporte
Wait a minute. You're saying a basketball is something used in the game. You're saying a basketball is something used in the game of basketball. That's a little tautological, isn't it?
1:23:06 - ChatGPT
you're right, that was a bit circular.
1:23:16 - Paris Martineau
Let me clarify.
1:23:17 - Leo Laporte
Okay enough, you're right, that was a bit circular that is the new 1-800 chat gpt number so you can call them and everybody gets to use it for 15 minutes a month for free that is kind of cool.
1:23:33 - Paris Martineau
Actually, I will say that was. That was a fun little time it was a fun interaction.
1:23:36 - Jeff Jarvis
yeah see, it's good, it's worth an asterisk, wouldn't you say yeah?
1:23:41 - Leo Laporte
Oh yeah, I guess it is.
1:23:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Is this part of their 12 days of open AI? Yes, it is of shipmas.
1:23:47 - Paris Martineau
Of shipmas Shipmas.
1:23:49 - Leo Laporte
Wait, isn't it?
1:23:50 - Paris Martineau
past the 12th day no they started late.
1:23:52 - Jeff Jarvis
No, this is the 10th day today. This is the 10th day, so two more days I feel like they're stretching a little bit now.
1:23:57 - Leo Laporte
It's like what do?
1:23:58 - Paris Martineau
you got anybody got anything like yesterday, was chat gpt on the phone we could put it on the phone.
1:24:04 - Leo Laporte
It's op, but it's also on whatsapp. You can do it on whatsapp with uh for international people.
Americans can call the 800 number awesome money, but you can't do that outside the thing I thought was uh, they talked about sora, which is their video thing, but every single announcement that open AIs put out, google's gone. Wait a minute, hold on. We got that too. Let me show you vo2, which is their version of Sora cutting a steak. Now, I have to warn you steak. Now I have to warn you that this is, um, if you're a vegan, you're not. Don't watch this, because it's gonna, it's gonna really get to you. I saw it on reddit, so I'll play it from uh, reddit in the sync. By the way, I follow a reddit subreddit called singularity. Okay, oh jeez. So up in the upper half hand corner, that is google vo cutting a steak. Then there's sora, which is having some trouble with its steak I don't know what it's doing and a few of the other the way competitors, the luma dream machine. Some of these are really gross, but this is look how good vo looks.
This this is generated good, fully, let me read you the text problem.
1:25:19 - Paris Martineau
They're using good steak cutting technique too. Those hands are in kind of a claw.
1:25:24 - Leo Laporte
Remember a year ago we were saying oh yeah, they can't do hands. Oh, they can do hands. So the prompt for this was a pair of hands skillfully slicing. So that's where the skill came in A perfectly cooked steak on a wooden cutting board, faint steam rising from it. There are some where the steam is I don't know. Faint is the word. Uh, I would give runway more like it's on fire.
1:25:53 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, the steak is rare and uncooked, but it's on fire.
1:25:57 - Leo Laporte
This one's not too bad, it's uncooked, but it's on fire, this one's not too bad, and it's very juicy Hai Luai.
1:26:03 - Paris Martineau
This is a Chinese, but this would never actually get through. Oh, that one just cut off the Cling, cling.
1:26:10 - Leo Laporte
I don't know what's going on with the steak. It got two with one blow, three with one blow, and then they're disappearing, yeah, disappearing, yeah.
1:26:16 - Jeff Jarvis
oh, it's running, the snake is still alive, it's right away.
1:26:18 - Paris Martineau
my father always used to say I want it rare, so rare it moves cutting one way but the uh pieces are falling the other.
1:26:27 - Leo Laporte
Yeah this one's close but just not luscious, and he's really having trouble at the end. I think vo2 won this one battle handily, yeah, easily, beating uh sora the open ai competitor. Uh, what else did they announce in the 12 days um?
1:26:47 - Jeff Jarvis
um a project which is the big deal.
1:26:49 - Leo Laporte
It's there yeah, you could save all your stuff into a project on the chat, gp and some and some things for developers they're gonna love. Yeah, and that's pretty much it so 12 days of what was it? Uh ship, this ship miss? That's not felicitous at all. No, no, it's not the weirdest job in ai so these two things are related here. Kevin roos got mad at me, okay, because uh new york times, kevin roos, the guy who the ai fell in love with.
1:27:20 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, that's the, that's the one below the story, below where he said well, it's really, claude is the hip one everybody loves. And I said it was all anthropomorphic and, worse than that, it was celebritizing. And he said are you lazy? And um, I said that I quoted all the anthropomorphic things in the story and I said I stand by my judgment. And he was still mad at me. So that was Claude. So that was bad Claude is, by the way, excellent.
1:27:44 - Leo Laporte
I like Claude, but I've got to be really careful about anthropomorphizing this.
1:27:47 - Paris Martineau
Let's be honest. The real reason why you criticized Kevin's article is because it described Claude as San Francisco's most eligible bachelor.
1:28:03 - Leo Laporte
There you go. That's my title. Damn it to the people who love it.
1:28:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Claude feels different more creative and see he's doing it again less gratingly robotic.
1:28:08 - Leo Laporte
Its outputs, they say, are like the responses a smart, attentive human would give and less like the generic prose generated by other chatbots. You know, know, steve Gibson was great yesterday. He has, by the way, now decided he's really going to look into how LLMs work. He's reading some important books about it and so forth. He says I'm going to get to the bottom of this, I want to understand it. He says he's come around to saying he used to think that AGI was possible. He's saying I don't think it's around the corner. No, he's saying I don't think it's around the corner. No. But he and he's also become very hypersensitized to where programming is added to the llm to make it seem more human, like, oh, I'm sorry, you're right, that was circular, let's talk about. You know, that's all added. That's not even the llm, that's added after the fact by coders to say make it, make it more sound, more genuine say um every 15 words yeah and so I think when you say claude sounds more insightful, it's not that it's a better ai it's manipulative, it's manipulative.
They're trying to make it seem more human so that's my problem, doing all that.
1:29:15 - Jeff Jarvis
And now we go to the story above that the weirdest job in ai. This shows the problem is there is now a job at Anthropic, and Anthropic is a test company where they are worrying about the feelings of the AI and the ethics of dealing with the AI. And should we be monitoring its happiness? Oh, give me an effing break. It's happiness.
1:29:38 - Leo Laporte
Oh, give me an effing break. This goes along with the story about OpenAI's Zero One wanting to escape being turned off. Right yeah, it's all BS. It's BS. It's code added by people after the fact in the so-called two names stage to make it feel more human and it's bs, yeah, kevin writes in his article.
1:30:03 - Paris Martineau
During character training, claude is prompted to produce responses that align with desirable human traits such as open-mindedness, thoughtfulness and curiosity. Claude then judges its own responses according to how well they adhere to these characteristics. The the resulting data is fed back into the AI model. With enough training, anthropic says, claude learns to internalize these principles and displays them more frequently when interacting with users. So it's not that this is feeling any way. It's that it has literally been programmed to say sort of things that will make you think that it is feeling and acting open-minded.
1:30:37 - Leo Laporte
Let's be honest, I think you're right, the media, just as the media is complicit in many other things, because we've, we forget that they're not, uh, objective reporters on facts. But not you, paris, you are, but that often the media is a it for its own good, in its own profit. Um, taking the side of AI and making it sound like it's real, it's human. For instance, this headline from Tom's Guide by Elise Stanley OpenAI's new chatbot 01 model will try to escape. If it thinks it'll be shut down, then lies about it. Researchers, now, I can kind of live with that, but then the sub is researchers uncover all kinds of tricks. Chat gpt01 will pull to save itself. No, that's not what's happening. And you know what? I bet you, uh, elise knows that. I think elise is writing a headline that's going to generate.
1:31:34 - Jeff Jarvis
That's the problem with kevin. Um, I wanted to say when he, when he complained about me, I wanted to say, uh, oh, I guess I'm not going to get get invited to your wedding with claude when it falls in love oh, that was mean, that was really mean. Well, cory cory doctorow, uh on, um, uh. Mastodon responded and just said that he's. I forget what he said. Oh, it was funny, dame, and cory's very good. Of course we are big fans. He just, he, just he really criticized him.
1:31:58 - Leo Laporte
It was funny. Corey's very good. Of course we are big fans of Corey.
1:32:00 - Jeff Jarvis
He really criticized him more than I did.
1:32:01 - Leo Laporte
Good, so he's joining the club. I think it's very tempting. It's almost like make-believe, it's like saying it's not okay to say Santa's not real because he has kids.
1:32:16 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think, the answer is.
1:32:19 - Leo Laporte
But they're kind of doing this santa's not real with ai, like, oh, let's all kind of play along right I think the answer is, in many cases, more.
1:32:29 - Paris Martineau
While you're entirely correct, I think the practical answer is more boring than that, in the sense that at places like the times especially, there's been a big emphasis on narrativizing every story. You'll see this in the way that they coverage.
Everything's like a big yarn and in the sense of these little cute Pat news items, they're trying to make them more conversational and approachable to readers. And it's a very common framing that you're talking about some sort of inanimate object, but instead your first paragraph or two you describe as like he's all the rage. Everybody loves talking to him, his friends rave about him, right, the problem is he's an ai, you know, and they don't really realize that when you were doing that it may seem fine in a single story, in a vacuum, but when you were doing that, institutionally, on the scale of a company the size of the new york times, with the heft of the new york times, it changes the way that people think about these technologies right and it leads to.
1:33:28 - Jeff Jarvis
It leads to policy and that matters. Cory doctor has said he's tech's perfect patsy. Say that again. He is tex perfect patsy, referring to tex. T-e-c-h is t-e-c-h patsy. Yeah, um, and and roose, what he got from me, he said I miss and he used the name of the of my imposter on twitter. Oh yeah, and I thought I didn't know, I didn't bring that up, that's so. Uh, he got, he got banned from even. He got banned from X because he impersonated the Pope. Who, kevin Roos? No, my imposter, the other guy. Yeah, he didn't get banned from impersonating you.
1:34:07 - Leo Laporte
That's one thing, but not the Holy Father, not the Pope, yeah. So let's make a deal. You and I. I really don't want us to fall into that trap of narrativizing this stuff. I think if you catch me imputing you know some sort of personality to this stuff, you will call me on it and I will do the same to you.
1:34:29 - Paris Martineau
Absolutely yeah.
1:34:31 - Leo Laporte
Because I think for for you, our audience, we really want to make sure that we don't misrepresent what these ais are and they're remarkable, and furthermore, call people on it when they are and say, and especially when ais are doing it themselves.
By the way, elisa's article is based on uh this test that uh open ai hired a company called apollo to do on safety and I don't know how she got from this very academic open ai 01 system card, uh, this very didactic, you know, challenges safety evaluations to. They were trying to escape a little jailbreak is in there.
1:35:16 - Jeff Jarvis
This, but that there was safety in the open ai terms and in anthropic terms is all test reality.
1:35:19 - Leo Laporte
Jailbreaks are not the AI trying to break out. They're humans trying to get the AI to say something by breaking its training. So I'm looking, I'm still trying to find. They also talk about regurgitation. We evaluate the text output of the O1 models using an extensive set of internal evaluations, looking for accuracy. Ie the model refuses when asked to regurgitate training data. Ah, that'sa big. That was a big problem. Where you can get the training data out of the ai. We found that o1 models perform nearer at 100 on our evaluations so don't sue us, new york times.
Uh, they evaluate hallucinations um, oh, one preview, and oh, one hallucinate less frequently than four. Oh and oh, one mini hallucinates less frequently, and then four. Oh, many more weak is needed to understand hallucinations holistically. And I agree with you, jeff hallucinations is a bad, bad word word because it's also a personifying it, anthropomorphizing it.
1:36:23 - Jeff Jarvis
So we call it some of them it's really hard to. I use the word train and learn. Yeah, because it's a training set and it does learn how to do something. I think that's kind of on the edge. It doesn't think, it doesn't know, it doesn't feel. Those are the things that are I think are wrong and and you use the right, right view, you know it's misleading. Yeah, but, Leo for a mere $249. Yeah, Now build your own AI.
1:36:54 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's only $200 a month to get the special version of.
1:37:00 - Jeff Jarvis
ChatGPT. No, no, no, you can buy your own physical AI supercomputer for $249. Oh, I saw that I bookmarked that Raspberry Pi of AI. Yes, isn't that cool. So if you go to that link on 84, you see jensen wong uh doing from nvidia the guy runs nvidia.
1:37:24 - Leo Laporte
They're selling this jetson nano.
1:37:26 - Jeff Jarvis
So the shtick is he pulled a bigger, his last big machine he pulled out of an oven and then he pulls this out and you'll see if you go down.
1:37:35 - Leo Laporte
There is jensen welcome to my house. Yeah, by the way, in the past that's not been his house, it's been an ai generated backdrop let's see now, oh yeah, new house.
1:37:45 - ChatGPT
We're fixing the house that you guys saw the last time you were in my kitchen and let's see what were we doing.
1:37:51 - Leo Laporte
My hair was a lot longer and I lifted a brand new hgx out of. Okay now look at the size of that thing.
1:37:59 - ChatGPT
Again today and let me show it to you.
1:38:01 - Leo Laporte
And now this is the new one. Here we go, and it's not quite so big, ladies and gentlemen our brand new AI computer. Look at this, I'm tempted.
1:38:12 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, that's why I wanted to show it to you.
1:38:15 - Paris Martineau
Something about how this video is recorded makes it look ai generated.
1:38:19 - Leo Laporte
It is I'm sure, what he's always done in the past is the kitchen has dissolved around him or flown out of the backdrop. I I don't know if he does that in this one, but no it looks like he might actually be in his house.
There's some dogs. I think he really is some dogs. So the this is this jetson orin nano is 250 bucks, which is half what. Uh, its predecessor was 500 what. But here's what's interesting. Now you've heard us talk about, uh, the term tops terra. What is it? Terra operations per second, or something? Terra flops per second. I don't know what it's a it's a. It's a number that's often used to talk about AI capacity or capability. The Apple M3 Max, I think, was 48 tops. The Surface from a Microsoft is around 40-some tops. This thing, this $250 computer, is 68 tops and will, in fact, be faster still when they update the software. That's pretty. In other words, it's a very capable ai machine. Now, obviously, you'd have to attach now he calls it a supercomputer.
1:39:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Is that just marketing? What is the? What's the definition of a supercomputer?
1:39:33 - Leo Laporte
uh, there is no definition okay, because the the cray one, which was a supercomputer that actually was furniture you could sit on, uh is now slower than your handheld iphone, so it changes over time. Yeah, it's probably super ish a dumb question.
1:39:51 - Paris Martineau
What does this mean?
1:39:53 - Leo Laporte
yeah, what do you do with?
1:39:54 - Paris Martineau
this inside of a robotic computer robot.
1:39:57 - Leo Laporte
No no, it's a standalone computer, so it's got a ethernet port so you connect this to a monitor and then you do stuff it's like it's small so you can put it in robot raspberry pi, or you could put it in something yeah or your air fryer.
1:40:10 - Jeff Jarvis
You could have an ai air fryer they're just gonna get smaller, so I could?
1:40:16 - Paris Martineau
could I buy this and run video games on it?
1:40:22 - Leo Laporte
no, no I don't think so why would you want that kind of computer?
1:40:27 - Paris Martineau
I don't know, I wonder. Actually, the legitimate question is what operating system is?
1:40:32 - Leo Laporte
it running? Is it running an operating system?
1:40:34 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know that's what I'm curious about what do you want me?
1:40:36 - Leo Laporte
what would you go to?
1:40:37 - Jeff Jarvis
that's why that's why I wanted to attempt you with this. What would you do with this? This is what really Paris is asking.
1:40:42 - Leo Laporte
I would put it in a frame and make it into a pretty, pretty good performance. I got to say put it into a. So there's robotics, generative AI at the edge. You know you can put it in a frame and have it display ai movies, steaks being sliced. It's gotta gotta be uh, linux on it, or let's see here. Let's look, look at the specs. Gpu is an nvidia ampere with 1024 cuda cores, 32 tensor cores. It's a six core arm.
1:41:19 - Jeff Jarvis
Cortex 78 AE 8 gigs of memory. Is that a google creation tensor? Well, no generic.
1:41:29 - Leo Laporte
Okay, that's a, that's a term. Uh, it sounds like it doesn't return the software features section. Uh, it's Linux, so you could just run. You could use it as a computer. Yeah, it's like a Raspberry Pi, and then you could put models on it. It doesn't come with storage, so you'd have to attach it to something like an SD card or something for storage. It's just like a Raspberry Pi, which doesn't come with storage either. It has tf card slot.
1:42:02 - Jeff Jarvis
So crit paris, you're not going to ask for this for christmas, though no you were tempted.
1:42:07 - Leo Laporte
Your little laptop is perfect, but it's not, as I have to say. It's not as performant, not as many tops I mean yeah but it also is more ram probably I've recently.
1:42:16 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, it has the maximum of ram for a macbook pro, which isn't much, but I'm trying to remember what the uh top score was.
1:42:24 - Leo Laporte
For which one do you have the macbook? What's the processor? It's a great question um when did you get it I? Have the m2 m2 macbook air oh, it's an air, so it's an m2. Yeah, I have the same exact one. Let me see what the TOPS score is, because I've run. You know there's a Lama, there's a AnywhereLM. There are quite a few local models you can put on that Mac. Let me just look at these specs. I don't even know how to search for a top score, to be honest.
Yes, apple mentions it often in the keynotes, but sometimes they don't mention it and they didn't do it. What is tops? What is tops? Is it teraflop operations per second Trillion. Floating point operations per second Jesus, trillion, trillion, yeah, trillion, yeah they're very, you know.
1:43:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Let's call chat gpt and ask it to explain it to us you're gonna burn through all your minutes I could do that maybe.
1:43:33 - Leo Laporte
Maybe I won't call, maybe I'll just 1-800 chat gpt is it an 800 number? That's nice of them. Yeah, here let me ask Gemini, yeah, what does uh tops stand for when it comes to ai? Oh, come on, you got to talk it t-o-p-s stands for trillions of operations per second.
1:44:00 - ChatGPT
It's a measure of how many operations a processor can perform in one second how many did a cray the original cray do?
1:44:07 - Leo Laporte
I don't they didn't talkray do? They didn't talk about Tops. Well, they didn't talk about Tops. Or Mega Flops, right, how many Tops did the Cray supercomputer deliver? Spells Cray with a K, not with a K. You got to stop talking. It said with a k not enough to answer this question. Cray made many different supercomputer models over the year. Each had different performance capabilities. Okay, what about? Cray newmark how fast was the cray one supercomputer, expressed in trillions of operations per second.
1:45:13 - ChatGPT
The Cray-1 supercomputer performed at 0.16 gigaflops or 0.00016 teraflops. Here's why it's not measured in trillions.
1:45:30 - Leo Laporte
It's very slow.
1:45:34 - Jeff Jarvis
So it wasn't even a gigaflop. So the new, the new um nvidia chip, the one that the real one that they announced a few months ago, yeah, how many is that?
1:45:41 - Leo Laporte
how many times is that? Come on, you keep asking these questions.
1:45:44 - Jeff Jarvis
All right, let's ask, uh what's the name of that new chip? What's that big, big one? Was it Blackwell? I can't remember Blackwell. That's it, yep, yep.
1:45:54 - Leo Laporte
How many tops does the new Blackwell processor from NVIDIA deliver?
1:46:02 - ChatGPT
The Blackwell processor from NVIDIA is incredibly fast, but it's not measured in TOPS. Instead, it's measured in petaflops, which is a thousand trillion floating point operations per second. The Blackwell processor is capable of up to 10 petaflops. That's a lot more flops. That's a lot of flops.
1:46:17 - Paris Martineau
That's a lot of flops, wow.
1:46:19 - Jeff Jarvis
So I searched for Blackwell TOPS and I found some very nice t-shirts.
1:46:25 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, tops is a weird measurement. I don't know why the industry decided on that, because for years we'd use there's either integer operations or floating point operations. Integer operations are faster, but a lot of times you want floating point arithmetic. So we've been. For years the industry's been using FLOPs, floating point operations per second, and as you can see, I mean the supercomputers of yesteryear were not very fast compared to the supercomputers of today. What did he say? 10 peta flops? That's incredible. That's a thousand, a thousand billion, a thousand trillion flops.
Yeah, oh so if flops are like tops if flops are like tops, it'd be basically the equivalent of a thousand tops. Yeah, no, ten thousand tops, pardon me, yeah, right, compared to what was this? 70 tops, so that's a lot faster. Yeah, wow, that's cray cray with a k okay, you know me. It said there's never been a computer called Cray with a K. I said that was your decision, not mine. I did it. I personified it. I'm sorry you did it.
1:47:41 - Paris Martineau
We're just going to have a little button that can shock you every time you do it. We need.
1:47:45 - Leo Laporte
Stacy's. Everybody always wants to hurt me. Why? Because you're too damn nice. So what was the weirdest job in AI? Oh, the person who's going to spank.
1:47:56 - Jeff Jarvis
you Worry about its welfare. Oh, poor you. It's the HR for AI.
1:48:04 - Leo Laporte
I have been using the perplexity shopping feature. I really like perplexity.
1:48:08 - Paris Martineau
What is this shopping feature?
1:48:10 - Leo Laporte
So when you do a perplexity shopping feature I really like perplexity, what is this shopping feature? So when you do a perplexity search now uh, running shoes, running shoes it'll show you uh, uh, shopping, actually shopping recommendations. So it's still thinking here, but as soon as it shows me what's it doing? Oh, oh, it says it's searching for recommended running shoes it's taking its sweet time and there you go, nike, don't you hate it?
in the middle of this, it's saying hey, would you like to rate me? No, nike. Pegasus 41. Uh, out of focus. There we go. Is this top? Then the Saucony Exodus Ultra 3.
1:48:52 - Jeff Jarvis
But on, what basis did a whole little table go the other way, go the other way okay, so and these are.
1:49:06 - Leo Laporte
You see, there's little uh, footnotes. That usually is a source and it's usually not it's objective source. It's usually a running blog or running magazine or kind of like that.
1:49:16 - Paris Martineau
Here's the shopping have you bought anything from there?
1:49:20 - Leo Laporte
no, but look, I mean, if you actually think how useful that is, I'm searching for running shoes. Okay, based on these reviews, the nike pegasus 41 is the best. Look here you go for 103, 30. You could buy it directly, and this is, by the way, not from youtube or google shopping. This is rei. This next one is also rei. That's the sock honey. Oh, they're all rei. No wonder if rei is paying for this. Oh, nope, there's zappos. I actually like hokas.
1:49:49 - Jeff Jarvis
I wear hokas so the wall street journal did a story today on the trouble with searching google for quote the best.
1:49:57 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that was actually a good story but it's really complaining about the web.
1:50:00 - Jeff Jarvis
It's not complaining about google. It says well, there's people out there putting these fake things.
1:50:04 - Leo Laporte
Yes, they do and google tries as hard as they can to not put those in search results and then they get sued for, for antitrust, for getting rid of this crap. Right, they can't win, poor google I don't think that's what I came away with in this story poor, poor little google can't win small it was actually a kind of a fun enterprise story, um, but the woman who wrote it, uh, I actually want to, I want to give her credit.
So, let me, let me find this story it's uh wall street journal, and her name is andrea andrea fuller and I I kind of I thought you might know her, paris, I feel like she's like in your cohort, but maybe not, I don't actually. She did something that I could just see you doing. She talks about thanksgiving. Her parents are visiting from north carolina, she says, and what was surely a commentary on the state of my new york city apartment.
My dad proposed buying me a new vacuum for christmas and he suggested this model on snap by that us on sale for $260. He said it's ranked the number one vacuum and he pointed to the listing. Fortunately, she says I'm an investigative reporter. I already knew fake product reviews are a dime a dozen, but they seem to go for a lot farther. In fact she's right, because the this, this company it's, it's actually a deep dive. It's the kind of thing you would do. I could totally see you doing paris, doing all this investigation on this, just because their dad said it's tech, it's number one and then she should do is ask dad why you get me a vacuum cleaner for christmas cheese dad well, she, he says at the end he finally did get me a vacuum cleaner for a lot less than $60 and a lot better vacuum cleaner.
But basically this number one ranking came from a website called product reports, which was from germany, which in fact seemed to have a relationship to snap by. The whole thing was just kind of put cobbled together. Uh, media appearances if something says as seen on, check it out. So, for instance, they say this v70 vacuum was as seen on Fox TV, but if you click it there's no link. She says that's a red flag if you can't click the review link, and I've seen that time and time again and then she searched the website and you couldn't find it there either.
There was nothing there. Yes, contact information, the only listed number germany. So she called and she got a recording saying not here. Called back during business hours three to nine am eastern time.
1:52:39 - Jeff Jarvis
She said I called twice, sat on hold, was eventually disconnected both times meanwhile, line 70 forbes is blaming google for having to fire the freelancers who write this kind of review spam. Which is really saying that Google is getting rid of the kind of crap that Forbes is putting up on the web?
1:52:56 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, well, forbes doesn't want them to. You know, take away their lunch. Yeah, I thought she did a good job for the average person of explaining why, when you see number one pick.
1:53:07 - Jeff Jarvis
It's not Google's fault.
1:53:10 - Leo Laporte
It's what happens when you search Google.
1:53:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, pick, it's not google's fault.
1:53:12 - Paris Martineau
It's what happens.
1:53:12 - Leo Laporte
Google has created yeah, but she doesn't actually mention their fault.
It's jerks she searches google. But this would come up on any search site because, by the way, productreportsorg buys the ad on google okay, for best cordless vacuums and it's. And the whole problem is this product reportsorg is owned by the company. That's owned by the company that has the place of selling it, etc. Etc, etc. They have a link to trust pilot. That doesn't go anywhere and it's made up. It's a lie. Trust pilot says uh snap, buys reviews might not be trustworthy. Um, and she said beware of sites claiming trust stellar trust pilot reviews that don't link back to the reviews, and that's exactly right, that's, that's good consumer.
But you see, her dad, like me, uh, and anybody's dead isn't gonna do that deep dive.
1:54:04 - ChatGPT
She's gonna say hey, I see it, said it was number one you just needed to add reddit at the end of his search string.
1:54:11 - Leo Laporte
There that's exactly right same thing with the running turfing reddit too that's true. There is a lot of astroturfing going on at reddit, so the headline writer said google.
1:54:20 - Jeff Jarvis
But you're absolutely right, jeff, it could be reddit meanwhile, after you've been very nice to a wall street journal reporter, I'm going to drive you crazy with line.
1:54:27 - Leo Laporte
Well, I just I just thought she might be a pseudonym for paris martin.
1:54:31 - Paris Martineau
I'm writing under yeah me moonlighting at the wall street journal yeah, daylighting, yeah moonlighting go to one line, 119, and click there, and this is going to drive you.
1:54:41 - Leo Laporte
I can scroll all the way down to 119. It's going to drive you bananas. New app lets homebuyers see, then oh, no one farther that's it, joanna stern book. All about all right. I don't want to rag on joanna stern, no, but I did already, it's just just look at the just click the list.
This is on the marketplace yeah, well, look at that, I'm writing a book. It's all about how I am letting ai, smart machines and computers, take over my life for a year. It's going to be fun. Exclamation mark an interesting exclamation how many exclamation marks so far? And weird exclamation mark. If you know of a company idea or something wild, I should be exploring for this, let me know. Oh, she just signed a deal. She hasn't even yeah, through my old publisher at harper it's going to be called chat, but oh geez, when machines become our everything chat but chat.
But no, it will not be.
1:55:35 - Jeff Jarvis
I, I have a prediction it will not be called chat.
1:55:38 - Leo Laporte
But I'm just thinking after that sales conference, it's when harper business gets a hold of that, one say, yeah, you know, we have another idea. How about 101 things you ought to know?
1:55:51 - Paris Martineau
so anyway I am interested to see, though, because this book is going to come out in spring 2026. It seems like a very of the moment book will anybody particular? Will we still be as interested in the idea of someone letting ai rule their life for a year in 2026?
1:56:08 - Leo Laporte
yeah, probably not, it's one feature. Well, good for her, I'm glad she has a book deal. Glad she has a book yeah, that's great and I'm sure she got a big advance and she's got plenty of time to write it how's? It takes forever to go through the process. Yeah, and she has a good agents at uta that helps and gives them credit.
1:56:32 - Jeff Jarvis
So meanwhile, the story you almost read. I thought that was an interesting story it is an interesting story.
1:56:38 - Leo Laporte
The new app lets us homebuyers see neighbors politics it's a service to realtors so they always in the listing put like schools, walkability of the neighborhood. Now they're going to say liberals, liberals in the neighborhood, watch out. I confess you know I mean that's a. I mean I wouldn't not buy a house because of its neighborhood, because there was a there was a book uh called the big sort that came by bill bishop that came.
1:57:11 - Jeff Jarvis
I remember this yes, what year, I'm not sure what year which is all about americans moving into like-minded clustering into like-minded places. That's why I have red and blue states, right, and then it's happening more. Now people are moving, it's probably sure. Yeah, you're moving from purple to red or blue, right, and that's happening more. So this, this app, helps you do that.
1:57:31 - Leo Laporte
I want to move to a liberal neighborhood, I want to say the neighborhood we live in was very careful not to put up lawn signs, uh, or for anything bigger than a city council member.
1:57:42 - Paris Martineau
We did have some local campaigning did anybody try to put up national stuff?
1:57:48 - Leo Laporte
I don't know. I think everybody's very cautious. I don't think anybody was gonna. Are you? You're in an HOA? No, no.
1:57:55 - Jeff Jarvis
HOA. Well then, how can you restrict this first amendment? You can't restrict.
1:57:59 - Leo Laporte
It was a. It was a. We all agreed in our heads, oh, I see, not to raise that Spectre, although we have a family member who flies a trump flag, has banners everywhere. It's amazing. Going over there, it's uh, it's like a circus came to you all right. Yeah, I think that's uh. I think that's probably not something you should check out. To be honest, it's. The one funny thing about this article is that the the picture which they took from the apa has a trump pence poster that they covered over the pe and replaced it with va because in effect.
Everything is interchangeable on this yes and this poster.
1:58:48 - Paris Martineau
So yeah, that's really musk yeah, I mean, I think vance is in there, peter teal isn't there yeah, I, I did my, uh, my, my tweet about two weeks ago.
1:58:59 - Jeff Jarvis
I said I'm old enough to remember jd vance did no politics zone npz.
1:59:07 - Leo Laporte
Where's your lawn sign? Take it down. Katie couric is wrong, writes mike masnick. Why did katie is katie couric in the public eye?
1:59:17 - Jeff Jarvis
at all. She did yes, she does a newsletter and, I think, a podcast, and she also was she was the co-head of that aspen institute thing with prince harry oh good, that's two people I trust to understand the internet policy.
1:59:31 - Leo Laporte
The commission on disinformation produced a report on how to tackle disinformation. Mike writes the report was well, not good. It was written by people with no real experience tackling issues related to disinformation, and it shows prince harry and katie couric. There's the two people I'd like to go to a mix of unworkable and nonsensical ideas. He writes it's well intentioned and the one thing he's really pointing out is that the repealing section 230 uh, which was one of the recommendations, uh, would not solve disinformation online.
2:00:12 - Jeff Jarvis
But Katie's evidently still out there saying these things, boy.
2:00:16 - Leo Laporte
I want to say this again and again and it ties actually to another article I put in here. This was actually from Hacker News and I think it didn't get into the. I think the Hacker News it didn't get into the um, I think the the hacker news I didn't link didn't work, but it was from a european moderator of a forum for fixie bikes. Uh, pretty big forum, I think it was it.
2:00:44 - Paris Martineau
I was going to say I bet people have lost their minds on that forum bike forum.
2:00:48 - Leo Laporte
People are some of the most hardcore forum people well he's designed, decided because of the uk's new law, which effectively holds just as eliminating section 230 would do holds the publisher, the, the, the moderator of a forum responsible for the contents of the forum. He said after this law in the UK, I am shutting down my forums because I cannot. It's we're on a shoestring, as it is mostly comes out of my pocket and I cannot defend a court action against me. It's line 32. Oh, it is on here, it's on there, cause I knew I read it. Yeah, l, f, g, s, s is the name of the forum.
2:01:32 - Jeff Jarvis
That that trips off the tongue yeah, it's uh.
2:01:36 - Leo Laporte
Like I said, it's a, it's some acronym having to do with bicycling, uh, but he, so for some reason he feels safer having a discord. I'm not sure that that's going to solve uh because he's not responsible for.
2:01:51 - Jeff Jarvis
He doesn't decide what goes up, he can't edit it maybe. I don't know.
2:01:53 - Leo Laporte
I don't know he says reading the off-com regulation uh and we're done. We fall firmly. You know this is the regulation. By the way, there was some dispute over in hacker news whether he would be liable for this the uk online safety regulation. But it has the same effect as repealing and for the same very good reason children's voices heard, no more sexualized messages, no more grooming, etc. Etc. Has the same kind of seemingly sensible reasons to do it, but it has the same problem, which is it? And this guy points it out. He says this the act doesn't care that this site and platform is run by an individual. I do so philanthropically, without any profit motive. The act only cares that it's linked to the uk because he's a uk native and it's in the UK and the users are from the UK. And that's the scope. He says big tech can afford to defend themselves. It's the little guys who are most damaged I've said this again and again by things like repealing the Section 230 or the new UK online safety bill. I'm sure there will be a similar. This is what COSA, by the way, is basically trying to do, bill. I'm sure there will be a similar. This is what COSA, by the way, is basically trying to do and COSA probably won't survive this current session of Congress but I suspect will be. You know, re-invigorated Resurrected is probably a better term in the next term of Congress. And this keeps coming up. And the problem is you.
Section 230 defends me against a lawsuit for something that happens in our chat, on our. We have a mastodon, we have forums at twitter community mastodon, twitter social. We have eight different chats going on right now on youtube and and twitch and everywhere that we're streaming, and we would be held responsible if somebody did something bad in there or we moderated them. Let's say and this happens all the time I have, uh, people in my mastodon that I've just kicked off because they're spamming or because they're, you know, being harassing people or aggressive or whatever, and I think I have the right to kick them off to keep it to a pleasant environment. But if they decided to go after me, it would, section 230 would defend me. It would say the court would throw it out saying no, no, uh, it wouldn't even get anywhere it wouldn't get anywhere leo has the right to moderate and he's not responsible for people's comments on the site.
He's not, you know, he can moderate it, but throw that out and suddenly I'm liable and I have to say I would follow the same exact steps as Velocio, who's the guy who runs the LGFS.
2:04:33 - Paris Martineau
London. Fixed gear and single speed is what it stands for.
2:04:36 - Leo Laporte
That is good London fixed gear and single speeds it rolls right off the tongue. A lot of people were very sad about this. The Online Safety Act becomes the law in England on the 17th of March and he says we're going to shut down on the 16th.
2:04:57 - Jeff Jarvis
This is the problem.
2:04:58 - Leo Laporte
And so Katie that's why.
2:04:59 - Jeff Jarvis
TikTok two 30 online safety. It's all about our speech.
2:05:05 - Leo Laporte
That's why it matters and and I I wish somebody would tell Katie Couric all these people think we're going after big tech. It's not big tech that's going to suffer. They can't afford to defend themselves in court.
2:05:15 - Jeff Jarvis
I know katie from back in the day and so I I don't know she saw it, but everywhere she said where this was. I said would you please listen to mike masnick? Yes, matters, he knows what he's doing. Good, I made a video about two years ago responding to jo Scarborough about this, which is why he actually did call me at the time and I had put that video up to saying listen to the people who know what they're doing about two 30. It's not what you think it is.
2:05:39 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and I understand they think it's all about big tech.
2:05:42 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah.
2:05:43 - Leo Laporte
They must be able to pay. Yeah, uh, we are running up against the tick tock clock. Uh, I'm going to take a moment to invite all of you to join the club. We have some big club events coming up this week. Tomorrow morning at 9 am, get up early to join micah and his crafting corner he is building a tiny kitchen.
He's making like a little dollhouse kitchen, I think, and that's what he showed me. Anyway, he's done other things. He's done, uh, needlepoint, needlework and stuff, and then other people are building legos and stuff. It's not like it's just a hangout, so you just kind of hang out.
2:06:24 - Jeff Jarvis
It's like watching them play a game it's not even watching them.
2:06:28 - Leo Laporte
It's like you're doing your thing, they're doing and we're chatting, we're talking and it's cool. This is what the club. The club is a real clubhouse quilting bee. Yes, yeah, uh, tomorrow at noon, pacific time. Uh, we're gonna do stacy's book club. We have a little book club going. Stacy eggenbotham picks really good sci-fi. She picks it. Oh wow. The. The book this week or this month was recommended by jason snell, voted in by the club members. It's I've. I loved it. I was so sad when it ended. James s a corey's newest. They wrote, uh, the expanse series, which was beloved, and of course, a tv show, the new. They've started a new series and the first book is the Mercy of the Gods and it's really wonderful. It's too late, I guess, probably unless you're a fast reader to read it before the book club, but the book club is tomorrow at noon. If you have read it, join us.
Or just lurk, join and lurk. No, because it's full of spoilers so it will spoil the book for you. But we do a lot of things. We have coffee, we have photography. Chris Marquardt did his photo hour last week. He'll do it again in a month. So we do all these things in the club because we love the community.
The Club Twit Discord is a great place to hang out. It's part of the benefits of joining Club Twit. Club Twit is seven bucks a month. I mean I think that's a really fair price. It's as low as we can make it. We thought about increasing it. We thought no, we want to make this accessible to everybody. You can pay more, by the way. You can pay as much as you want, but the but the starting price is seven dollars.
You get ad-free versions of all of our shows. You get video from shows that we don't do in public. Uh, like we don't do video in public. Like hands on windows, hands on macintosh this week in space, actually, I think we do put out video for this week in space. Um, untitled linux show, home theater geeks. We do a lot of stuff and this gives you like an all-access pass to get into all the content that we make here at twit. But it does another thing it helps us stay alive, and that is really, really important. I said earlier no, was I on the air when I said there's been very good news, or?
2:08:36 - Paris Martineau
was that pre-show? That was pre-show.
2:08:38 - Leo Laporte
This is important news too so I have been begging people to join the club. I said my goal is 5 000 new members by the end of the year. I don't know if we're going to make that 5 000, but we've. We've had many, many, many new members, thank you, thank you, I appreciate you responding to the call. The other thing that's been very good news is, and the real concern was, ad sales had just disappeared.
People, I think, are a little skittish about the economic future and so forth, but a lot of people, I think, were just waiting and this week, for some reason, we booked a bunch of ads and, I'll be very frank, we saved this show. The show was perilously close to being canceled at the end of the year and I didn't tell anybody that. I didn't tell you guys that. I think, jeff, you sensed it, but you probably always are sensing it.
We were in a financial crunch and we had, we were, we were, we were figuring out, was strategizing well, how we're going to save money, we're going to cut shows, we were going to lay people off, but this advertising coming in and your contributions to club twit made a huge difference in it and has saved us. So thank you, I really appreciate it and if you want to keep going into the rest of the year, please join the club. It makes such a difference and I think you'll be very glad we do. We're going to keep doing the two week trial so you can at least see if it's something you like. I think you'll really love the community. And we're also going to continue to offer the referral code, which can get you free months if you get other people to join the club.
So, uh, please go to twittv slash and recommend the show too.
Do that too. You know we have that's one of the reasons we put video up on youtube so you can clip it and send it out to people, because that really, um, I think it's a great to promote it. We need to grow the shows. Um, that's also important. We need to grow the audience. Uh, the amount of money we make on an ad is directly tied to the number of people who hear the ad. So it really is helpful to us if the shows grow, and also, I like it, our egos like it, if more people are listening and if you want the show to continue existing.
2:10:41 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, if you want the show to continue existing throughout next year, you need to subscribe to support it.
2:10:46 - Leo Laporte
Thank, you and Paris does. She wants that.
2:10:49 - Paris Martineau
I do. What am I going to do if I don't spend my Wednesday evenings talking to you?
2:10:53 - Leo Laporte
guys. We all want it to continue and I know people there are some people who say, oh, Leo, you should just do it for free. Good news I am, but I have to pay the staff. I have to pay Jeff and Paris and I would never ask them to do this for free. I'm willing to do it for free as needed, but I think it's really important. Benito needs to get paid. Everybody needs to pay rent. They need to eat. That's the way it works in this world. So I mean, I guess if worse came to worse, you'd see me just sitting here talking.
You don't want that replace me and jeff with ai yeah, yeah, just now, leo gone, so, um, then I had a ham sandwich and, um, I took a walk. It wouldn't be a coffee machine was on the fritz oh yeah, I couldn't have any coffee, uh let me call chat gpt oh, my 15 minutes expired see, that's why you need to join the club.
Twittv slash club twit. I'm sorry I'm going on and on um. I'm actually very grateful. A lot of new members welcome. It's great to have all of you. Thank you, people, thank you, thank you. Yay, um was there. I can give you a few more minutes if you. Uh, I think I think we got everybody. Paris won the bake off. Yeah that's important paris, do you have a thing for us this week?
2:12:24 - Paris Martineau
a pick for this week. I do hold on. Let me get my thing. I have two, which are two fun little instagram accounts I came across. One is called I don't give a seat and it is photos of seat patterns from public transportation all around the globe. No, they're beautiful, leo, look at that second one no, only some of them are soiled.
2:12:49 - Leo Laporte
They're so vibrant. This is kind of nice. This is nice. Where is this this?
2:12:52 - Paris Martineau
has got to be Europe right. Look at the green one, Look at the one that's next.
2:12:56 - Leo Laporte
The next one here, this one.
2:12:58 - Paris Martineau
That one's pretty.
2:12:59 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you don't love that.
2:13:00 - Paris Martineau
I love that. It's beautiful.
2:13:04 - Jeff Jarvis
That was my rec room couch when I grew up.
2:13:06 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's what it looks all of it looks like my chair in that pattern. Oh, that's right you like mid-century modern. I forgot I do.
2:13:13 - Paris Martineau
I have a bunch of apartment books published in the 50s. What's going on here?
2:13:18 - Leo Laporte
I feel like there's a secret code in this croatian subway seat. What's that all about?
2:13:25 - Paris Martineau
but I do like you get to see like where it's from, who posted it, you know it's cool, and then so the next one is another person, another thing by the same person. Okay I found on blue sky and it's compendium of transit tickets from all around the world. Um, and they're all high resolution scans. They promise to never use ai and they tell you when the ticket is from this guy likes it's kind of nice, Likes transit Apparently yeah. So interesting.
2:13:54 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.
2:13:55 - Paris Martineau
I don't know, and they're just a bunch of cute little tickets. It's fun to see around the world it is.
2:13:59 - Leo Laporte
It's like traveling.
2:14:00 - Paris Martineau
It is, but you don't have to leave your seat, and I presume that these that he has contributors. He doesn't go to all these places. People will um send them in or no. I actually.
2:14:14 - Leo Laporte
I guess you just take commission requests this is the osaka subway which I've been on and it's a wonderful subway. Look at these. I have to say japanese public art, you know. I wonder there must be a japanese manhole cover insta, because they have beautiful manhole covers oh are there yeah, let me just search for manhole. Maybe I shouldn't search for manhole you should keep your screen uh don't show this. Oh yes, there's quite a few uh manhole cover uh sites. This is from uh oleg valeshnikov. Uh, these aren't quite as well they're some pretty good ones.
2:14:54 - Paris Martineau
Manhole covers just the word manhole covers is just japanese manhole covers that's the one.
2:15:01 - Leo Laporte
That's the one you want.
2:15:02 - Paris Martineau
Let me go back oh, and these are so cool they're beautiful japanese very involved yeah, there's a lot.
2:15:09 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they really I. The japanese sense of art, especially in public art, is just truly gorgeous. Yeah, look at these. This is from rigerio lima. He's been collecting these. Just gorgeous, benito, you were just there. You were just in tokyo. Did you notice the manhole?
2:15:29 - ChatGPT
notice that the manhole covers were beautiful. You have to look down everywhere in tokyo they're gorgeous.
2:15:35 - Leo Laporte
John ashley's there right now. I like the hello kid here they're just covered in piss yeah yeah, frankly you got a problem with that no I love, I love it. There are, but you know you should look down in cities because I find weird things on the little plaques and stuff embedded in the concrete in New York City.
2:15:57 - Paris Martineau
Always read the plaque.
2:15:59 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it feels like there's something going on, some the great.
2:16:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Stolpersteine Life of the city. What is that Stolpersteine? In Germany are memorials to people who lived in this home and were taken away and murdered. The holocaust brilliant. It's the best memorial you can imagine.
2:16:16 - Leo Laporte
It's all around you find it somebody lived here what they don't mention is and then our family moved in after they took off and we've really enjoyed living here.
2:16:26 - Jeff Jarvis
Thank you very much, jeff, your pick of the week so it's claude day, apparently, because if you go down to uh line 174, uh, claude has a system called cleo for privacy. Never mind that. If you scroll down to a bunch of circles, you'll find the top use cases on claudeai keep going down down out of my tie, my shoes. So this is top use cases. So 10.4 percent are web or mobile app development, I believe. 9.2 percent content creation and communication, sure.
2:17:01 - Paris Martineau
7.2 percent academic research and writing and so on I assume that's all got to be teens and people oh yeah it's academic for my ninth grade report.
2:17:10 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, then I found this interesting if you scroll down further to the next chart, it's different uh conversation topics culture, yes, so in china write crime, thriller, thriller and mystery fiction with complex, complex plots and characters.
2:17:26 - Leo Laporte
I can't talk do you think you get a good mystery if you asked claude I?
2:17:31 - Jeff Jarvis
don't know, I'm hungry. I don't want to do it now, uh. Japan create and analyze anime and manga content and related projects. Spanish explain and analyze economic theories in their real world applications a lot of, a lot of catalan supporters in the one.
2:17:48 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, probably.
2:17:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, wow, that's fascinating, vaguely interesting yes. Yeah, very interesting. Chinese Provide information and assistance on space exploration topics.
2:18:01 - Leo Laporte
These are conversation topics that appeared more frequently in three selected languages. Yeah, I don't know, maybe this is um. I think you'll like this, uh, paris, because you recommended a um, a uh app about dying yes, we croak yeah, we croak, so you might like this.
this was actually an article that appeared at npr opinion piece in 2005, but I, after reading it, I realized and I went out and I wrote some thank you notes. I did some things. It's called always go to the funeral. I believe in always going to the funeral, writes deidre sullivan. My father taught me that first time he said it to me directly I was 16 and trying to get out of going to calling hours for Miss Emerson, my old fifth grade math teacher. I didn't want to go. My father was unequivocal D he said you're going Always go to the funeral. You're doing it for the family.
It's a wonderful little piece, but it's also a wonderful story with a great kind of moral, and it doesn't have to be a funeral. It's about doing the little things that you don't want to do. You don't think they're important, the little courtesies that might make a big difference to somebody else. She finishes it. On a cold April night three years ago my father died a quiet death from cancer. His funeral was on a Wednesday middle of the work week. I'd been numb for days For some reason. During the funeral I turned and looked back at the folks in the church. The memory of it still takes my breath away. The most beautiful, humbling, powerful, inhuman thing I've ever seen in a church was at a church at three in the afternoon on a Wednesday, full of inconvenienced people who believed in going to the funeral. So I wrote some thank you notes. After I read it I thought you know, I need to do more of those little inconvenient things you don't want to do that make a big difference to someone else.
2:20:06 - Benito Gonzalez
So I'm going to leave you with that one yeah, I think for the holidays.
2:20:09 - Leo Laporte
Just a reminder you may not want to go to that christmas dinner, you might want to go see nosferatu instead, but always go to the funeral or the dinner I'm gonna bring this energy whenever I go to the um.
2:20:23 - Paris Martineau
Extended friends and family dinner I'll probably attend in florida with uh the fluoride truther songs exactly, I know perfect.
2:20:36 - Leo Laporte
Don't talk about fluoride if you can avoid it I'll try, but if, but if you, if you don't get your vaccinations, uh, you're gonna have a funeral, but I'll go to it you know it's a funny thing, while I was talking about this, I I have a little screen over here that's got camera views of the front door and Lisa, when we moved here some time ago, put out a little refrigerator with drinks and a sign that says thanks for the packages, have a drink? Oh, and the FedEx guy was just here. I was looking down and there he was taking a drink. Isn't getting back in his truck after dropping off a package and yeah, it's a nice, it's a little thing.
2:21:13 - Jeff Jarvis
Now your neighbor is stealing the package and you can see that too.
2:21:15 - Leo Laporte
Oh my, God, get out of there. No, no, we don't. Actually, we don't have porch where they call them porch pirates. We don't have them that this is the last show of the year, but not the last show ever. We will be back. Thanks to you, club Twit members, we will be back in 2025. Our next show will be January 8th. Imagine how sad.
2:21:39 - Jeff Jarvis
We will be without you.
2:21:39 - Paris Martineau
Guys, this is show 799. Do you want to say anything?
2:21:43 - Leo Laporte
We will have an 800.
2:21:43 - Paris Martineau
We're going to be missing 800.
2:21:50 - Leo Laporte
It's an off missing 800 with. So off week, what do you guys have to say about actually 800? There will be an 800. There will be an 800 next week.
2:21:54 - Paris Martineau
It's a best of so, I know, but we're not gonna be there, even though we will be well, you'll be there, but it'll be old you, not new you I know that doesn't rerun us rerun jeff, no it's. How do you feel about doing 800 of these shows?
2:22:06 - Leo Laporte
I want at least 1200 you've been here since the beginning, haven't you, jeff?
2:22:11 - Jeff Jarvis
oh, yeah, yeah, you can't get rid of me. You tried and tried, but you can't get rid of me.
2:22:15 - Leo Laporte
We first started doing the show 800 episodes ago, uh, with you, uh jeff jarvis and gina trapani, and it really was about google for the first 200 episodes.
2:22:26 - Jeff Jarvis
We thought her name was trapani.
2:22:28 - Leo Laporte
We mispronounced her name for the longest time. Yeah, um, and let me see. I'll find that date this week in google number one. It says in beta was august 1st 2009. It was two decades ago right, that was audio only.
2:22:45 - Jeff Jarvis
No, yeah wow yeah, audio only.
2:22:48 - Leo Laporte
Only we shortly after added a video. Um, and what's the news? Fcc investigates apple and at&t over google voice app block. That kind of blew over, didn't it? Did you guys have?
2:23:06 - Paris Martineau
any idea when you did that show that you'd be doing this all these years later I'm sure both of us thought we'd be long gone by now.
2:23:17 - Leo Laporte
Gina has gone on to better things. She's run companies and, yep, she's doing some great stuff, had a kid, she's a big executive, uh. And then, of course, stacy higginbotham took over for gina for several hundred shows, and now it's the wonderful paris martineau. We've worn them out one by one. You have breathed new life, paris, into this.
2:23:36 - Jeff Jarvis
You have been really wonderful having you and that's another reason, folks, for you to recommend the show anew she's giving us artificial resuscitation I'm to pass out.
2:23:48 - Leo Laporte
Got to do this. Stay in a lot To Mississippi. We will be back. So next week's the best of. Then there's a week off because next week is Christmas Day, and then there's New Year's Day and I'm not making you come in. What are you doing for New Year's Paris? Is this a skeeball event?
2:24:07 - Paris Martineau
No, I don't know. I normally do a New year's eve eve party, but that's because new year's eve falls on like a weekend. So new year's eve eve is also on a weekend and it's great, because then I have no competition. But this year, because new year's eve falls on like a one. Um no, it falls on like a tuesday or wednesday or something new year's eve is tuesday.
2:24:26 - Leo Laporte
tuesday and new year's eve is mond, so it's just not.
2:24:30 - Paris Martineau
it's not really going to work, so I don't know. I might just go to a bar for new year's Eve instead.
2:24:38 - Leo Laporte
You know, Jeff, we really should bring back that 24 hours of new years.
2:24:42 - Paris Martineau
We should bring back 24 hours.
2:24:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, she'll be the star of the of the whole day and night.
2:24:48 - Paris Martineau
I'll get a small tattoo, not related, I got the smallest tattoo you can get.
2:24:54 - Leo Laporte
I mean, I don't think you. I mean it's so small. Lisa was not happy she was so unhappy she came screaming out of her office. You were there, that's right, you, you were.
2:25:04 - Jeff Jarvis
That sure wasn't my fault. I was trying to goad you into what you could do so.
2:25:08 - Leo Laporte
We were raising money for unicef, by the way, we raised more than eighty thousand dollars. That night they built a hospital in the central america thanks to our, our efforts. And, uh, we started raising the ante and jeff said, well, I'll shave off my beard if we get whatever it was, ten thousand dollars. And I said, well, I'll shave my head if we get twenty thousand dollars000. I really pissed Lisa off. Yeah, because we're getting married about three weeks after that.
2:25:34 - Paris Martineau
So I bawled at all the oh my God.
2:25:36 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.
2:25:37 - Paris Martineau
Leo, that's crazy.
2:25:38 - Leo Laporte
It was a mistake. I will confess, I do not have a felicitously shaped head, oh wait.
2:25:46 - Paris Martineau
Jeff, you're not allowed to look at discord. Whatever you do, how many day, how many days do you think you have spent doing this week in google?
2:25:57 - Jeff Jarvis
oh my, god, since the beginning, let's see. Each show is five hours long, it seems that way. Uh times 800. I'm bad at this how many is it?
2:26:07 - Leo Laporte
61 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes and 27 seconds, wow two months, two months of this podcast straight actually, and they're happy, not more. They're happy but no sleeping well, no, sleep no eating, just by the way, jeff that's only counting the times you've been on twig. So you see, out of 800 shows you've missed a few, but that's 717 days, so that's more than me, by the way, um nice okay, I'm sorry I shouldn't. I should not start looking at the discord. These guys are having way too much fun are you looking? At the discord.
2:26:50 - Paris Martineau
These guys are having way too much fun. Are you looking at?
2:26:52 - Leo Laporte
containers. That is the word of the year, by the way, I think it is. It's the word of the year. Containers. Paris, martineau, have a wonderful new year. Have a great Christmas. You're going down to Florida. We'll see you back here Sunday for the year end twit.
2:27:10 - Paris Martineau
So glad you could join us.
2:27:12 - Leo Laporte
Uh, we also thank you, jeff jarvis. You wonderful fella you for all these years of making this show happen. I appreciate it, mirth and merriment. Thank you, sir mastodonsocial at jeff jarvis, jeffjarviscom for his books. Uh, paris has been on the show for a total of six days, one hour. It's 15 minutes. It's a little feels like. Yeah, you're a little out ranked there. Thank you, patrick Delahanty, our web engineer, for doing that. Hey, a very special happy birthday to Benito Gonzalez, our producer and technical director and editor. Happy birthday, ben. Producer and technical director and editor.
2:27:49 - ChatGPT
Happy birthday, Benito.
2:27:50 - Leo Laporte
Oh yay, Benito, Is it a big one.
2:27:52 - ChatGPT
No.
2:27:54 - Leo Laporte
Well, you know, they just get bigger, right? Everyone's a big one after 40. They're all big. We wish you all a wonderful holiday season. Are you going to be doing anything fun, jeff, for the holidays? No, no, you, bah, humbug, bah, humbug. I am looking forward to a few weeks off. You are going to get a few weeks off and we will see you all january 8th for a brand new year. This week in google, tell your friends, join the club, have a great holiday, happy new year. We'll see you in 2025. Bye-bye everybody.
