This Week in Google 792 transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for Twig this week at Google. Jeff Jarvis is here, paris Martineau is here and, of course, we're going to kick things off with Google quarterly results. They made a lot of money in the last three months. Is that a surprise? China's richest man, tiktok's founder and Elon builds a compound for his mom's. It's all coming up next on Twig Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is Twig.

This is Twig this week at Google, episode 792. Recorded Wednesday, october 30th 2024. Five to ten people at your door. It's time for Twig this week in Giggles, the show where we cover the latest news from the Sniggleverse, the Giggleverse and some Google news. Actually, there's quitech a bit of Google news this week With the wonderful Jeff Jarvis who has a new role in the world Roles Plural google news. Actually, there's quite a bit of google news this week with the wonderful jeff jarvis who has a new role in the world.

0:01:08 - Jeff Jarvis
I saw it's plural roles he's got two, but I announced it here first. Thank you and anybody could give a darn what I'm doing.

0:01:18 - Leo Laporte
But well, we care. Are you writing books, which is the most important thing? And of course, there's the two books behind him, the web we read and the gutenberg parenthesis and, of course, magazine, which is a book ish, it's a book light it's if you want. If you want a nice, it's definitely a book a quick read with a lot of pictures you get the idea.

I'm just teasing you, uh, as if I had something to compete. No, no, my friend uh jeff's new title, his new role he is uh is a visiting presser at stony brook university school of communications and journalism.

0:01:53 - Jeff Jarvis
Communication singular I'll get in trouble communication.

0:01:56 - Leo Laporte
there's only one yep and a distinguished fellow, hello fellow, at the center for cooperativeative Media at Montclair State University. Aren't I distinguished, very distinguished. So congratulations, and I'm still, I am still, professor.

0:02:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Emeritus, I am forever at the.

0:02:16 - Paris Martineau
Tao Night.

0:02:17 - Jeff Jarvis
Center. No, I don't, no, I'm just trying to cue the music.

0:02:21 - Leo Laporte
What are you doing? Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of new york cannot leave craig out. That would be wrong. Also with us, the wonderful paris martineau hot dog hat lady he hatted.

0:02:37 - Paris Martineau
I don't know what you're talking about.

0:02:38 - Leo Laporte
She's got a nathan's wiener on her head and uh is that does sound bad. That is just something you had lying around.

0:02:46 - Paris Martineau
That's not your holiday it is just something I had around the house, yeah uh, good to see you reporter at the information.

0:02:52 - Leo Laporte
She does the weekend. Uh, has the weekend every week.

0:02:56 - Paris Martineau
You may be wondering is the weekend gonna come? And I'm?

0:02:59 - Leo Laporte
I'm working behind the scenes to make it happen this weekend, we set the clocks forward, by the way that's.

0:03:06 - Paris Martineau
I take no responsibility for that one.

0:03:07 - Leo Laporte
It's your fault, I blame you. Uh, let's talk about jarvis, and I'm not talking jeff. It was only a matter of time before google created something named jarvis and, uh, you remember, you remember back in the day, so did Zuckerberg.

0:03:27 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh yeah, his own AI was named Jarvis. He addressed it as Jarvis.

0:03:35 - Leo Laporte
Well, the story in the information Google preps an AI that takes over computers. That headline is a little spooky, scary, not to mention the drawing of a hand emerging from your screen taking over your computer. But it's really not anything like that, although I think it's very interesting. Aaron Wu has the story. The product is not yet announced, but Aaron's got the scoop.

According to three people with direct knowledge of the product, the artificial intelligence will be in your browser and will kind of take over. You say uh, you tell it, I need a flight and it will go out and book a flight. Or I need a car and I'll go out and book an uber. I want to buy something along the lines of this fine hat, and it will find the hat and buy it. This is kind of funny because Anthropic announced something similar just last week yeah, ahead of that. I don't know if this is unrelated or if Google thought oh, we got that too. They're going to release it. According to Aaron Wu at the information, google plans to preview the product, also known as a computer-using agent as early as December, alongside the release of its next flagship Gemini large language model.

0:04:56 - Jeff Jarvis
So when I was talking about this with Jason at AI, inside it works off the screenshot, which is the same thing that Anthropic said, which struck me that that's very similar to what we've discussed about um android and the new product of working off the screenshot. Right, and so it seems like it's a. It's a. It's a new um uh layer of how we interact. What we're doing on our screen tells the machine, something that you can then supposedly give us something relevant as a result. Is that what's happening here?

0:05:26 - Leo Laporte
I can't really figure it out, but it takes over your machine it reminds me of the r1, which is a product that didn't really take off and sold quite a limited number. Remember it was that little cute little rabbit and you would, instead of it's a. It was kind of like supposed to be like a smartphone, but instead of having on it, you would just tell it what you wanted to do. It turns out it was an Android device with an app, a single app, the Rabbit app on it. You would tell it what you wanted to do and then it would call Uber for you or do whatever it needed to do to fulfill your needs.

Anthropix said its product can operate different applications installed on a person's computer. Jarvis can only operate the web browser. So really, anthropix is kind of like manipulates the keyboard and mouse. Jarvis is for a Chrome browser, basically, again from Aaron Wu. Jarvis, at least for now, targets primarily consumers who want to automate everyday web-based tasks consumers who want to automate everyday web-based tasks. At google's developer conference, sundar, for instance, suggested future versions of gemini could take several actions on its own to to help someone return a pair of shoes.

0:06:37 - Paris Martineau
I have two thoughts on this one. How is this going to get around? Uh, you know the whenever I'm navigating the internet because I'm an insane person and I have insane person browsing habits I am always hit by we think you're a computer please answer me these riddles three, you know, um, and I don't think that jarvis is going to be able to answer, answer those riddles. Three to be able to return my shoes or whatever, and then my second.

0:07:05 - Leo Laporte
I have to rethink. There are you, a robot captures, aren't they?

0:07:08 - Jeff Jarvis
yeah, because the yes your browser is your robot.

0:07:11 - Paris Martineau
I am but that assumes that this product gets up off the ground and becomes popular, and I'm just not convinced. I mean, maybe I'd be happy to be proven wrong, I'm just not convinced that this is going to end up being that useful to the average consumer, much like I feel like chat, gpt and chatbots, as of right now, are not that useful to the average consumer.

0:07:35 - Leo Laporte
Wu quotes two of her sources saying and this might be a deal breaker the agent currently operates relatively slowly because the model needs to think for a few seconds before taking each action. So jarvis will be like you know, having telling your grandpa what to do hey hey, now press the x, button, grandpa what? X, two, three, four. Okay, now what? I don't think that's very, that's not going to get anybody.

0:08:12 - Jeff Jarvis
This is all. Everybody's just going. I talked about this last week. They're all going. Agent, mad Agents make sense, but if they're not ready, it's a bad experience, and if you don't trust it to do it right, don't do it. But at some level, agents replace apps and at some level, generative AI replaces apps as well. You're giving commands to things and do you trust it to go off and do what you want? Does it know enough about you to do it right? So here's the question.

0:08:49 - Leo Laporte
Clearly, we understand, and I think Google understands, that one of the desirable uses of an AI would be as an agent that you would, you know. I mean, isn't that kind of what Siri is kind of supposed to be? Or Google Assistant? You talk to them and they do something for you. It does something clearly irrelevant and useless.

But yes, well, we know that that's the goal from science fiction, right, right? So the question is should companies release partly their products as a way of getting there, or should they just hold it back till it can actually be useful? Cause, siri, I think people have already decided series a moron and it's it's given cooties to audio interface for a long time.

Well, and then uh now they've added uh, they've. You know, our apple intelligence is out came out earlier this week and they didn't really improve siri, but watch, they gave it a nice new visual effect on the screen.

0:09:46 - Paris Martineau
Now that's it. Now that's high tech.

0:09:49 - Leo Laporte
Ooh, Siri, you're so smart. Now let's see what Siri says To who.

0:09:57 - Paris Martineau
Let's see what he says. I can't read it.

0:10:00 - Leo Laporte
It says to Whole Foods Market. Let's see what he says. I'm talking about you, Siri.

0:10:09 - AI
Send it to Whole Foods Market. I'm talking about you, Siri.

0:10:13 - Leo Laporte
Finally, I just sent a text to Whole Foods that says I'm talking about you, siri, but you know what? Here's the funniest part Not again. They're getting a lot of those. Another one, okay. So you can see, it's not smarter, it's just, it's a tempting.

0:10:38 - Jeff Jarvis
And we don't trust you. There's another story in the rundown today that ChatGPT's transcription function and transcription you think think was pretty easy. When it finds silence, it makes stuff up. It adds sentences in right. How are we going to trust that to do things for us?

0:10:54 - Leo Laporte
This is the story from AP that Whisper AI is hallucinating when used in hospitals. Yeah, not so good, and this is something that's really concerning me in hospitals?

0:11:05 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, not so good, and this is something that's really concerning me, because AI-powered transcription tools are being pushed at a crazy rate in hospitals and medical facilities of all types. Even I just took Gizmo for her yearly checkup and my vet was using an AI transcription tool in the vet appointments.

0:11:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, I had a slightly more serious doctor doing the same. Thing.

0:11:30 - Leo Laporte
I went to the doctor recently and he has a thing on the wall so he doesn't have to say it over and over. I will be using an AI transcription tool so that I don't have to be on the keyboard while I'm talking to you. It's recording our conversation. Be reassured that it's just used to turn that into text. It will never be used in any other way Until it gets stolen.

The recording is destroyed, stolen, but I hope they call the original speech the ground truth. That's the starting point for the AI. Here are the researcher, alison Konecki, who wrote this study at Cornell. Here's a printout of some of the things. So the ground truth was the the the the recording said a cat to cat cat obviously misunderstood the text. The guy in the black coat there was one guy called how do you get from a cat to cat? Cat to the guy in the black coat. There was one guy called how do you get from a cat to cat cat to the guy in the black coat. There was one guy called here's here's more ground truth.

Well, if I was going to make a sandwich without a peanuts and some kind of fruit, I would really prefer a really good bakery that has to, which the computer interpreted. Well, if I was going to make a sandwich out of peanuts and some kind of fruit, I would go to prefer a really good bakery that is a really good sandwich, which isn't the same thing. Uh, it's just, it's hallucinating. It's not just the pauses, it's when it doesn't understand as well, it's making up stuff to fill in the.

0:12:58 - Jeff Jarvis
It's being very helpful, it knows it's human master wants something and it's going to give you something so you're, you're at the doctors and it says um, amputate his right leg, and it makes that up right a university of michigan.

0:13:13 - Paris Martineau
Go ahead the thing that worries me is you know what this could the effects of this that could be farther down the line if every doctor is using this, if this is integrated into your medical files just like a seamless part of note-taking. What happens when suddenly someone has a disease or health risk noted on their medical files time and time again that wasn't ever actually noted by the medical professional. It just got in there because of a transcription error. And then we know how Sisyphean the US healthcare system is. You're never going to be able to get that removed.

And what a nightmare.

0:13:52 - Leo Laporte
So that's kind of that earlier question which is is it better Sisyphean, sisyphean. Sisyphean. No, I know that I'm trying to think.

0:14:01 - Jeff Jarvis
I've always wondered how to say this. Is it Sisyphean? Sisyphean.

0:14:05 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, how would you say it? Sisyphean Either way.

0:14:10 - Jeff Jarvis
No, there's probably a right way here. I'll bet you were right. I just hadn't heard that before. That way, I've always heard Sisyphean. Sisyphean seems awkward, let's play it.

0:14:21 - Paris Martineau
Sisyphean says Sisyphean. Oh, but Google says Sisyphean the other one.

0:14:27 - Leo Laporte
Sisyphean oh, wait a minute. No, wait a minute, that's less commonly. Wait a minute, let's get the more common one Sisyphean. So, basically both are okay, sisyphean or Sisyphean.

0:14:40 - Paris Martineau
Oh, okay, that I guess the fact that we can't figure it out means the task of figuring out this pronunciation is sisyphean and we is left to the uh as an exercise to the ai.

0:14:52 - Leo Laporte
So this is my point, which is should you release these things, because it's only they only get better by being out in the wild and then really put guardrails around it like tell the doctors now, whatever you do, don't, don't get rid of the recording. That's the ground truth.

0:15:07 - Jeff Jarvis
This is just kind of, but who's going to go back and look at it? Who's going to notice the mistake was there? That's where Paris is right. You can say I know we didn't say that, but then well, but the record says this how do you get that audio? No, I can't release it because of HIPAA, even though it's your words.

0:15:24 - Leo Laporte
So I was talking about this earlier on Windows Weekly, our good friend, dear friend, corey Doctorow, who was on Twitter a couple of weeks ago, coined the term became the word of the year in shitification. But I think that actually what's happening in the AI world is not in shitification but in clipification. It's turning everything into an annoying little assistant. That is just wrong and useless oh, you're so right in clips it's in clipification, that's everything is becoming kind of this idiot savant could we have that for our show title clipification? Clipification I think so we'll make it the show title.

Here's the problem it's flooding the zone and it's not evil or bad it's trivial it's banal.

0:16:18 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, I've noticed this recently. Is it banal or banal it's banal.

0:16:23 - Leo Laporte
I was taught banal but, okay, okay, a little, we gotta get this right here. I know it, or banal, banal, I was taught banal, but okay, Okay, a little we got to get this right here.

0:16:32 - Jeff Jarvis
Let's see, I know it's banal, banal, yeah, banal. There's no alternative.

0:16:36 - Paris Martineau
There is none. It's something I've noticed recently with looking at posts on Twitter. If you look under a popular post on Twitter, what the everything app? What have you? The like 10 or 20 replies you see underneath nobody calls it the everything app nobody. That's the thing is, if I call it x, I do have to say x the everything app, because I think that that's very funny.

0:17:02 - Leo Laporte
Um, okay, no one, that's. That's how we're going to do it.

0:17:04 - Paris Martineau
The 10 or 20 replies underneath your average tweet, or if it's a popular tweet. They're all AI-generated and they're all trying to restate the same thing in the tweet or approach it in the same way, because it's clearly coming from the same model and it's just slop. It's slop begets slop. It's awful.

0:17:23 - Jeff Jarvis
It is. It's slop all the way down. It's my friend Matthew Kirshenbaum. It's the text-pocalypse.

0:17:32 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, is this what happens to your ex-posts Power Paras? Is that you just get?

0:17:40 - Paris Martineau
a lot of. I haven't found that that much and whenever I have posts that go viral. I mute them, because I don't want to have to deal with that because I think after a certain point it the notifications are too unwieldy and they have diminishing returns. However, I've noticed this on any post that basically comes across my for you page. Now you look at all the replies and it is just slop. Wow.

It's hard to even find like a human response. And now Twitter has introduced kind of the feature on, I guess, some instances of like the mobile app where you can reorder the comments or the replies underneath by most liked or most recent, basically in order to get around the problem created by making it so that anybody with a blue check gets automatically pinned to the top, to where you can kind of try to surface organic replies, but at a certain point it doesn't even matter. They're just kind of swarmed by all this nonsense.

0:18:37 - Leo Laporte
So let the word go forth not to trust the outputs of LLMs, Use it for brainstorming for ideas for creativity.

0:18:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Don't use it for anything that matters, because we know it doesn't work and it ain't agi around the corner.

0:18:55 - Leo Laporte
It can't figure out what a peanut butter sandwich is well and and importantly, the you as a human need to disintermediate ai.

0:19:04 - Jeff Jarvis
You need to to stand between AI's output and the real world, just kind of do it yourself.

0:19:10 - Leo Laporte
Well, no, I mean, look, if I gave you 12 scientific papers and you asked AI for a summary by the way, a new feature that is in Apple Intelligence, which is now in all Macs and iOS devices of recent vintage, it has a summarize thing you would find that useful.

0:19:27 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh yeah, especially for a statutory column. I honestly do that every time.

0:19:35 - Leo Laporte
Do you feel like you still have to read the column and compare the output of the AI? I?

0:19:38 - Jeff Jarvis
get through three quarters of it and I say oh jeez, I know, then I put it in a book, column.

0:19:44 - Leo Laporte
And it does a good job, right, it does yeah, and that's not earth-shattering, that's not vital. Yeah, you wouldn't use it to make life-and-death decisions, but to summarize and save you some time Well, I just hope my doctor doesn't use it to make life-and-death decisions about me as somebody in our YouTube chat says. A YouTube chat says AIs don't do amputations, humans do. So far.

0:20:07 - Jeff Jarvis
Robots. My prostate went out with a robot man. Paris, are you still? You lost Dr Don, or whatever his name. Was your doctor. You like Dr Dan?

0:20:17 - Paris Martineau
I lost him to Washington DC. I was close RIP.

0:20:20 - Jeff Jarvis
So you're still with Amazon Health.

0:20:25 - Paris Martineau
I'm still with One, medical, which is now part of Amazon. Yes, so do you think?

0:20:28 - Jeff Jarvis
they're going to be the first Normandy for the invasion of AI into medical care because it's Amazon.

0:20:35 - Leo Laporte
Oh, wouldn't that be interesting. Yeah, I'll ask next time.

0:20:38 - Paris Martineau
I'm there.

I'm sure that they will try and integrate some aspect of it.

I'm sure that they will try and integrate some aspect of it. My understanding of Amazon's approach to this area, which is technically concierge medicine, is that it was original, like their original interest in entering this area was to build a kind of luxurious-esque product for largely enterprise clients like Google or other big companies that sell this like a one medical subscription as a service to their employees or like a benefit, and so part of the cost benefit analysis for a company like Amazon is they want to be able to offer their customers, in this case being big enterprise clients, they want to be able to offer them overall reduced healthcare spending, and that often ends up being by having patients interact with doctors more. So I'm not sure that that would immediately translate to introducing AI into the mix, because I mean, maybe if Amazon just decides to go whole hog on the AI will make everything better, train sure, but right now, kind of the whole ethos of One Medical, or at least why I seem to like it and what the doc.

Whenever I'm there, the doctors usually remember that I used to cover Amazon and tell me about what's just generally going up there, at least that's what me and Dan would do every time is he'd be like ah, here's how things are going and so far it seems to be all right for them. I mean, I think they might have to see slightly more patience, but so far, it doesn't seem to have big changes.

0:22:16 - Leo Laporte
Did you talk about the Apple summary notification summary feature and how it told a guy he was getting dumped?

0:22:26 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, I don't think we did, but that's my two exposures to it are a guy who was told in brief he was getting dumped and a guy who got a summary of his mom's text, which was originally about how she went on a killer hike and is now coming home and got a summary that said hike resulted in her death. She is now coming home or something like that, oh my cow.

0:22:48 - Leo Laporte
So this is a feature again rolling out in ios 18.1 to all apple users who are using late model iphones, ipads and macs. Uh, here's the tweet from nick got his. Oh one. Nick is a developer for anyone who's wondered what apple intelligence summary of a breakup text looks like. Tweet from Nick got his 01. Nick is a developer For anyone who's wondered what Apple Intelligence summary of a breakup text looks like, and he posts it no longer in a relationship. Semicolon Wants belongings from the apartment. Nick says yes, this is real. Yes, it happened yesterday. Yes, it was my birthday, oh burn.

0:23:24 - Paris Martineau
Here I'll post the one I found in the Discord. If you read the one I found in uh the discord.

0:23:27 - Leo Laporte
If you read the original text, it's actually an accurate summary. That's I mean, that's what happened. It's kind of harsh. Um, here it is. Oh, this is terrible. This is, uh, from andrew schmidt on xcom. My mom, everything's like the height. I'm sorry. The xcom, the everything site, apple's ai summary attempted suicide but recovered and hiked in redlands of palm springs as and the ground. Truth was that hike almost killed me. Wow, it lost the almost.

0:24:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Wow, it lost the almost. Well, I guess it didn't, in the sense that she did, she died and then went. She came back from the dead and then all ice. It almost killed me. This is the thing about AI it has no ability to have reality. It doesn't know context yes, it does. It cannot test against reality.

0:24:20 - Leo Laporte
There is no reality.

0:24:21 - Jeff Jarvis
There is no meaning, it is the ultimate nihilist Paris. It is an entirely nihilist universe that has no meaning.

0:24:29 - Paris Martineau
That's what AI is, and yet I have to say that gives a bad name to nihilists. Me and Benito here holding up the fort.

0:24:37 - Leo Laporte
I've had this feature for some time and there are some useful things. For instance, here it says my ring doorbell five to 10 people who are at my front door, Not all at once, but that's rolled up.

0:24:50 - Paris Martineau
Oh, you forgot. I love that. It makes it seem like there's a gang at your front door, but it's probably just you going in and out your front door a couple of times.

0:24:57 - Leo Laporte
It was, it was me, so isn't that funny.

0:25:01 - Paris Martineau
But at the same time it's better. People at your front door is so funny, but at the same time it's better. Five to ten people at your front door is so funny.

0:25:06 - Leo Laporte
It's better than like ten messages one after another as somebody comes and goes and comes and goes Well, I know better, I know that five to ten people are at my front door.

0:25:19 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, plus then it's five to ten. Can it count yeah?

0:25:24 - Paris Martineau
doesn't it know how many people were at your door, because it's got a camera there.

0:25:28 - Leo Laporte
Okay, so this is what I would have gotten without the summary. I think you can see that.

0:25:33 - Paris Martineau
Oh, so the five to 10 people is an Apple summary, not a Ring summary.

0:25:37 - Leo Laporte
Yes, that's from Apple. That's the Apple Intelligence. Why is person capitalized and front?

0:25:42 - Jeff Jarvis
door is capitalized. That bothers me a lot.

0:25:45 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's Ring, this is the Ring notification. It also capitalized person. So you're right, that's kind of bad grammar or something. But somebody was coming and going, I guess, and the Apple summary was a little strange, but the summary is also.

0:26:01 - Jeff Jarvis
They're all gone now, because you only got a summary, you didn't get the notifications.

0:26:05 - Leo Laporte
No, I got both. I can expand it, so I expanded the one, yeah.

0:26:09 - Paris Martineau
I'm curious, Leo, does this work? Does the Apple summary work for like group chats?

0:26:14 - Leo Laporte
Yes.

0:26:16 - Paris Martineau
Will it try to summarize like an out my group chat. Probably in an hour can do a couple hundred messages. Oh, yeah. Will it try? To summarize that for me?

0:26:25 - Leo Laporte
I don't know I'll have to download the new update. I'll do that right now. Yeah, you need 18.1, and you need to apply, which is weird because it'll tell you in about five minutes okay, you're in. I mean, it's not exactly the most exclusive nightclub in the world.

0:26:38 - Benito Gonzalez
I also want to know how it's going to take inside jokes and stuff that you only say to-.

0:26:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Can you imagine?

0:26:45 - Leo Laporte
Paris' feed. I suspect it's going to be a source of much mirth and merriment.

0:26:50 - Benito Gonzalez
Yes, You'll get a lot of these screenshots in the next coming weeks.

0:26:53 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, get ready your Xcom. The everything app feed will be full.

0:26:58 - Jeff Jarvis
What's it called? I'm going to search Twitter for it now.

0:27:01 - Leo Laporte
Apple Intelligence or Apple AI, apple Intelligence or Apple AI. You could try that as well. It's pretty funny, oh hey.

0:27:12 - Jeff Jarvis
I just gave up, hey, somebody else got it. Apple Intelligence may need to append a correction to this summary. Washington Post. Jeff Bezos criticizes the Post's lack of presidential endorsement in an op-ed. What?

0:27:25 - Leo Laporte
No, not exactly.

0:27:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Not quite Another one. Multiple users commented on your recent submissiveness. Sorry, Leo.

0:27:43 - Leo Laporte
I want to talk about this endorsement thing because I think it's kind of interesting, independent of whether jeff bezos told the washington post uh, by the way according to the washington post journalists, he did, he did and a bunch of people quit and 200 000 subscribers can't. 250 000 that's a substantial number 30 million dollar um but $30 million value, and I want to ask the journalists here Honestly if he had done this 10 months ago or a year ago. I would kind of say, yeah, you're right, A newspaper should not endorse candidates.

0:28:15 - Jeff Jarvis
Marty Baron said that Everybody's been saying that, yeah, but he didn't do it 10 months ago.

0:28:19 - Paris Martineau
He did it this week. The week before the election. He did it the week before the election, when the editorial board had already written their endorsement and they'd endorsed other and other campaigns, but not the most important one on earth oh, and they do endorse another stuff they already did and they've endorsed for decades and decades, like you know

0:28:39 - Leo Laporte
and I admit uh, in my research I voted already. But in my research you know californ we have this horrible initiative ballot system. It doesn't take very many signatures to get it on the ballot and they are often very misleading in their wording. I don't know how any normal voter is supposed to figure this out, but I do a lot of research. I go to a League of Women Voters site in Ballotpedia and they list newspaper endorsements and I pay attention to that At a certain level.

It's not the only data point, but it's a data point and I value it Well yeah, it's useful, but the Washington Post has now not done this.

0:29:15 - Jeff Jarvis
The New York Times is not going to do endorsements in local elections. Yeah, it had value. Maybe you're going to discreet. If the Wall Street Journal likes them, I won't. Okay, but that's a data point. Can? I plug my plug. My piece in the Columbia journalism review now.

0:29:29 - Leo Laporte
Oh yes, line 95. Very prestigious CJ.

0:29:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Where I plug Is it. Is it Matthew?

0:29:38 - Leo Laporte
Ingram still there.

0:29:39 - Jeff Jarvis
No, he left money.

0:29:42 - Leo Laporte
I'm sorry, line left money. I'm sorry, line what 95? I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention. I know you never do to me. Why are liberals infuriated with the media? Can I put this in apple intelligence? Yes, please do this. Is you talking about your own new york times? Uh, what?

0:30:05 - Jeff Jarvis
is your hashtag and what broken times.

0:30:07 - Leo Laporte
Broken post product journal yeah, um, oh yeah, I'll read this what's your?

0:30:13 - Jeff Jarvis
what is it can? The argument here is your ai and summarize the right has always hated the press, but now there's a wave of criticism from the left of the press for a reason in which they're missing the big story of our lifetimes, which is the fascism at the door. They're not covering it. I mean the press for a reason in which they're missing the big story of our lifetimes, which is the fascism at the door. They're not covering it.

0:30:28 - Leo Laporte
You mean the press doesn't have a liberal bias?

0:30:32 - Jeff Jarvis
That's the thing. So Marty Baron in his memoirs lamented that more than 80% of the Post readers were liberal.

0:30:41 - Leo Laporte
He's the former executive editor of the.

0:30:43 - Jeff Jarvis
Washington Post and I said, well, that's good, you know who is what these days. I pull this prop out here.

0:30:53 - Leo Laporte
The American. Yes, you have the newspaper.

0:30:54 - Jeff Jarvis
I have right, Ooh yeah In 1900, in New York, there were 46 newspapers accounting in Brooklyn, 46 daily newspapers. Daily People had their own newspapers, right, and that was okay, and they had their own viewpoints. And now we end up with these monopoly papers and they think they can serve everybody, and that's the myth they convince themselves of that. Oh, we're going to serve conservatives and liberals all the same. No, you're not, no, and you're thus ill-serving your primary audience. So Jeff Bezos pissed the hell out of the last people who were loyal to the paper.

0:31:30 - Leo Laporte
So let's see Get webpage summaries with Apple Intelligence. Go to Safari. Click the show reader Summarize. Okay, so Safari, I'm going to pull up your article and see what Apple Intelligence says.

0:31:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Then we can make a podcast of it.

0:31:47 - Leo Laporte
Google LLM. You know you don't really have to do any work anymore as a journalist. No, just you know it's going to all be done for you. Poor.

0:31:54 - Jeff Jarvis
Paris. I'm at the end of my career. Paris is the beginning of hers.

0:31:57 - Leo Laporte
Well, I do, you know, I feel bad for our kids because they are, and Paris is in that same age group where they're entering this time of great.

0:32:07 - Paris Martineau
It's great. I'm having so much fun. It's so good. So, wonderful. I love life.

0:32:14 - Leo Laporte
Do you? You're having fun, you are having fun.

0:32:18 - Paris Martineau
Listen. Nick Vember is on the horizon, baby.

0:32:24 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I heard you already watched two, not one.

0:32:25 - Paris Martineau
I've got to bank some, because I'm not going to be watching Nick Cage movies when I get done with this podcast at eight 30 at night on Wednesdays. So I've got to bank.

0:32:34 - Leo Laporte
Here is the Apple summary of your article in one paragraph. Liberal readers and journalists are increasingly critical of major news organizations for their political coverage. So far, so good, accusing them of both sides in false equivalence and sane washing bullets very easy for it to get. Critics argue that the media should be focused on the existential threat posed by fascism and provide historical context text to explain its roots and perils. Journalists like jamel buoy are praised for their use of historical analysis to eliminate the underlying issues in political discourse yeah, yeah, Pretty good.

0:33:07 - Jeff Jarvis
There's obviously more than that, but nothing's wrong there. I have theories as to why this is happening.

0:33:12 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's pretty strange, it also does bullet points. I don't know how to do that on this, but yeah, it's pretty. So now does that mean you don't have to read the article?

0:33:25 - Jeff Jarvis
No, because it left a lot out Right and my bull moles and my plug in the articles for If Books Could Kill Podcast is in there, which was noticed on the. Twitter. Yeah.

0:33:40 - Leo Laporte
Okay, okay. So I guess we all agree AI has some usefulness and it needs to be kind of monitored and you have to consider the output did you have an opinion about the uh washington post?

0:33:55 - Jeff Jarvis
what about it? Did you have an opinion about it? Paris and I have had hers yeah, I agree.

0:34:00 - Leo Laporte
Basically, I don't have a problem with newspapers not endorsing. They should either endorse or not endorse, but they shouldn't make the decision the week before an election, especially if it is apparent that the reason they made the decision is they didn't like the endorsement that was about to emerge. That's what happened at the LA Times as well.

0:34:18 - Jeff Jarvis
See, I think Paris is going to get mad at me because I'm going to use the word nihilism here. But I think it was a cynical and nihilistic decision because either way he wins. If Trump wins, then you know it's kind of hands off Jeff and his mailing rates and his AWS contracts. If Harris wins, well, she's not vindictive like Trump, so he'll be treated fairly under the law, so he's kind of okay either way.

0:34:41 - Leo Laporte
You did see that both the Blue Origin met with Trump shortly after Bezos killed that endorsement. Bezos says oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

0:34:53 - Paris Martineau
I would say it's more of a cynical view than a nihilistic view, because I feel like a true nihilist perspective to this would be it doesn't matter, endorse who you want, who gives a crap.

0:35:03 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, I see Okay.

0:35:07 - Leo Laporte
So let's get the nihilist point of view in here, because the other thing that happened that I thought was interesting is andy jassy, who's jeff bezos's successor at amazon. Uh, apparently, a few days after trump was, the official nominee of the republican party called him uh, which is, by the way, every CEO probably should If he's potentially going to be a president. You want to make nice. That's what Tim Cook does very well, right? In fact, he just went to China, and at the same time, they're announcing that India is going to produce a lot of iPhones, and so he's tamping down the irritation that Chinese government might feel about india making iphones. And you, you got to play that game. Right, you got to be a politician. Jesse, though, when he went to uh, when he called trump, uh, mark zuckerberg did the same thing, but at that point trump said you, could you know? If you really want my, my favor, you should give money to my campaign now. Write a check. How big a check could you write? Jesse says he declined to write a check so.

0:36:09 - Jeff Jarvis
So one thing bezos bought himself is the news room at the washington post, going after him in every way they can now. So they had a story that bezos called trump after he was shot in the ear uh, praising him for holding his fist up afterwards.

0:36:24 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I think that is the job of CEOs.

0:36:30 - Paris Martineau
He's not a CEO.

0:36:33 - Leo Laporte
Right Bezos. Okay, but I mean he still owns Blue Origin. He owns other companies.

0:36:53 - Jeff Jarvis
He has some financial interest in the success or failure of Amazon represents many to many in many minds amazon, does he not?

0:36:55 - Leo Laporte
certainly well, if I were jassy and he's going over my head and trying to, let's, let's not worry about bezos, let's just say jassy. It's appropriate for jassy to call. Yes, he said the. The amazon says it was. Quote a general hello type thing. If you want to be Krupp, hi this is Andy. Jassy, ceo of Amazon. I just want to say hello, hello, andy.

0:37:14 - Jeff Jarvis
And you know that it's transactional. You know he's going to demand something of you. It's transactional, yeah. So what are you buying into you?

0:37:20 - Leo Laporte
say you know, I'm sorry, mr President, but I am not.

0:37:23 - Jeff Jarvis
We want to stay aloof in this but we just want to let you know that we— that's not good enough for him. That'll make him your enemy. Then it's stupid to call.

0:37:32 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's true.

0:37:32 - Jeff Jarvis
Because you don't do what he wants.

0:37:33 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, zuckerberg, who, of course, was under fire from Donald Trump for a long time, called Trump also after the assassination to say he was badass. Trump was a badass.

0:37:51 - Paris Martineau
That leaked very quickly after the call. I recall.

0:37:55 - Leo Laporte
And by the way since then. Donald Trump has said Zuckerberg is much better than he used to be.

0:38:01 - Paris Martineau
I will say I do think it's interesting to think about why the Zuckerberg comments leaked immediately after they were made and why it took until this for the Jassy and Bezos.

0:38:14 - Leo Laporte
What's your theory?

0:38:14 - Paris Martineau
a bit more either outraged by his conduct or just generally leaky, and it took until this for people in the close circles of Bezos or Jassy to be motivated to share information that they shouldn't with journalists in the same way, or I guess it could have been. The journalists didn't ask, but I'd like to believe that it's probably more on the people themselves that are in this traditionally uh, and certainly after citizens united, uh.

0:38:52 - Leo Laporte
Considerably. Companies have contributed to both campaigns. Right give, not equally necessarily, but often equally to both the democrats and the republicans, because they want to be on the good side of whoever wins but now you're going to get judged this way, isn't, and so politics should, is. I mean, businesses are somewhat apolitical in that sense, aren't they?

0:39:14 - Jeff Jarvis
But can they afford to be anymore? I mean, you know, if, if, if, if young people, especially people with actual morals like our Paris, say I'm only going to buy from a fashion company that does sustainable fashion, then the company has to make a stance on that and you're going to be judged according to that, and that can spread very easily into whether you're for fascism.

0:39:36 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, of course, if you bring in the historical perspective, the media were very complicit in the rise of Hitler, because the media barons in Germany thought they could control him. Yeah, guess they couldn't. Generals thought that too. All right, moving along.

0:40:03 - Jeff Jarvis
This will get you in trouble. Do you have any conservatives left watching the show? Oh yeah, that's fine. You know what?

0:40:11 - Leo Laporte
No well, I want everybody to vote and I think the better. Whoever gets the most votes should win. That's pretty straightforward in this country. I do fear that if Trump does not win, there will be a lot of shenanigans, as there were in 2020. But I hope that doesn't destabilize. You know, I will say that as a business person, an apolitical business person, I don't have a. I don't as a business. If I put that hat on yeah, let me put that hat on. I don't have a dog in this. I'll say I don't have a dog in this hunt. I'll say I don't have a dog in this fight. But I do note that we have zero ad sales zero, literally not one dollar for 2025 and it's my opinion that advertisers, however they fall in the political spectrum, are waiting to see what happens yeah and uh, because I think in general instability and uncertainty are just bad for the economy.

So, whoever gets elected, that once that's settled I I'm hoping, as an apolitical business person, whoever gets elected that people then say all fine, it's over, now we can buy our advertising. I hope that's the case, otherwise the lights are going to go out here and it's no fun.

0:41:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Democracy dies, as do podcasts in the darkness. Benito, if you were good, you would have turned off the lights right then.

0:41:41 - Leo Laporte
He doesn't control my lights.

0:41:44 - Jeff Jarvis
I have my own switch. If we were still in the studio, you could have. Yeah, it would have gotten dark. You need a remote control, Benito.

0:41:54 - Leo Laporte
All right, you guys can pick something I've got. Do you want to talk about why apples are so good these days?

0:41:59 - Paris Martineau
That's exactly what I was going to say.

0:42:03 - Leo Laporte
I think we're best. This podcast is best when we talk about food, and we have many, many examples of that. We are living, according to scientific american, in a golden age of apples. Yeah, you thought I was talking about computers. No, I mean apples.

0:42:22 - Jeff Jarvis
For those of you who are listening. The image on the screen right now is fruit.

0:42:27 - Leo Laporte
Apple experts. Apple fruit experts divide time into before Honeycrisp and after Honeycrisp. Now, what's your favorite apple there? Paris.

0:42:41 - Paris Martineau
I don't know if I have a favorite.

0:42:43 - Leo Laporte
See, when I was young and Jeff, because you're of a similar vintage you might remember I loved Macintosh apples. But you can't. The grocery stores don't like Macintosh apples because they have no shelf life at all. We would go right out of this time of year up to the apple farms, pick your own, get some cider, come back. Those were the best apples I ever had. But you can't get them in the store. I'm allergic. You're allergic, have you?

0:43:11 - Paris Martineau
tried the microwave trick. Jeff, have we talked about this before?

0:43:14 - Jeff Jarvis
No.

0:43:16 - Paris Martineau
One of my favorite people. I work with Martin Pierce. Oh yes, We've argued. A lovely, cantankerous editor.

0:43:25 - Leo Laporte
Are you going to bring us another ed zitron type here?

0:43:28 - Paris Martineau
I mean listen martin on the podcast would be insane martin should get asleep while we're doing this podcast let's get him um, should we?

0:43:37 - Leo Laporte
can you help us get martin peers?

0:43:39 - Paris Martineau
I'll ask martin if he wants to get on the podcast I would love. Uh, i't think he is. He is an in-office freak, so I don't think he would do that. He'd want to be working. However, he's also allergic to apples, but he's found that apparently his doctor told him that microwaving the apples obviously check with your doctor, it might be a different type of allergy. Microwaving them briefly neutralizes the compound that he's allergic to. So he every day in the office will briefly microwave an apple and then eat it.

0:44:10 - Jeff Jarvis
This sounds like an eccentric action. What is the scent? Is he?

0:44:14 - Leo Laporte
British, yes, australian. Okay. Australian. What is the scent of a slightly microwaved apple? It's probably delicious.

0:44:22 - Paris Martineau
You know it's not as frequent as you'd think and I sit near the microwave, so that's how I'm intimately aware with this, but not really, you don't really notice it so I expect it to be much more juicy the journal says.

0:44:34 - Leo Laporte
Many of us remember the us apple market was dominated for decades by one variety red delicious. Do you have you ever had a red delicious, they say it's a bold name for a bland apple, certainly red with a lovely rich jewel color and a handsome shape, but delicious. The main alternative was golden delicious perfectly fine, but similarly uninspiring. Yellow variety, tart green. Granny smiths, which were from australia you could ask martin about them started taking a decent share of the market in the 80s and that's where we were stuck. You had three varieties Golden Delicious, red Delicious and Granny Smith. Does that ring a bell to Paris?

0:45:15 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, there was a time when we lived in a dearth of apples.

0:45:18 - Jeff Jarvis
We had an apple dearth but at some point, as we are now in a banana dearth, we need to do work with bananas.

0:45:28 - Leo Laporte
Did you know? The ancestor of the apple of Malus Severici still grows wild in what is now known as Kazakhstan. Farmers began domesticating apples sometime between 10 and 4,000 years ago in the Tien Shan Mountains of Central Asia. This is from genetic analysis, so this is real. This is science. The cultivated variety spread quickly along the Silk Road. This is from genetic analysis, so this is real. This is science. The cultivated variety spread quickly along the Silk Road. Breeders crossed them with another wild species, malus sylvestris, and propagated them all over the Roman Empire. But grocery stores were really what caused the problem, because they wanted an apple that had a long shelf life, that wouldn't get mushy.

0:46:07 - Jeff Jarvis
I thought apples had like an all winter shelf life and you put them in the root cellar and they stayed forever.

0:46:12 - Leo Laporte
Well, maybe in the root cellar, I don't know. No, they get all wrinkly. Haven't you seen a spring apple? They're all brown and wrinkly. They're all brown and wrinkly. Oh, so the big transformation occurred when they crossed. Let's see, honeycrisps has a disruptive trait, says Chris Galchak, a geneticist who works at the US Department of Agriculture's research station in Kearneysville, west Virginia. Honeycrisp's texture, the crispness, had never been combined with a high-acidity, high-sugar apple. It was a first that really struck North American customers specifically. Well, honeycrisp took over. Specifically well, honeycrisp took over. The world of commercial apples now are divided into. Before and after Honeycrisp there were either the soft, mealy, delicious apples, for instance, or the hard, firm, dense Granny Smith apples With Honeycrisp. Once you've had crisp, it's hard to go back, he says All right, maybe this is not as exciting as I thought it would be.

0:47:29 - Paris Martineau
I think the exciting part of this features quotes from a man named David Bedford, who has the title Apple Researcher at the University of Minnesota. And I do think that's delightful. I looked him up. He says on his website my work is directed at the development of new apple cultivars through conventional breeding and the use of market-assisted selection, with special emphasis on the development of explosively crisp apples.

0:47:58 - Leo Laporte
At the peak of crunch times. He says I've had to taste 600 apples a day. The first 100 are okay, but after that it gets to be real work.

0:48:08 - Paris Martineau
Poor David.

0:48:09 - Leo Laporte
Poor David Bedford.

0:48:10 - Jeff Jarvis
You think it's easy, you think it's a walk in the orchard there, paris, but it's not.

0:48:15 - Paris Martineau
I bet he's never a doctor, can't come within a mile of him.

0:48:19 - Leo Laporte
That's right. More than an apple a day, 600 apples a day. So do you like the Honeycrisp Paris?

0:48:24 - Paris Martineau
More than an apple a day. 600 apples a day. Do you like the Honeycrisp Paris? I like the Sweet Apples.

0:48:29 - Leo Laporte
The Galaxy Apple is that one?

0:48:30 - Paris Martineau
of them. Oh, gala, you're talking about the Galas. Galas are quite good yeah.

0:48:35 - Leo Laporte
I'm a. Honeycrisp kind of guy. Yeah Well, anyway, that was a complete waste of time it felt like a story that would be right for us.

0:48:43 - Jeff Jarvis
It felt like a story that'd be right for us.

0:48:45 - Leo Laporte
It felt like a perfect story we did. There was nothing. There was nothing weird and sick about it.

0:48:48 - Paris Martineau
There was nothing, I was, it was yeah, there was no, like skin face is what we're missing it was a tenting and a moose, bush, between the politics section.

0:48:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Didn't work, didn't work, leo, but you know you try, god bless. Are you offended?

0:49:03 - Leo Laporte
I'm offended. Instagram says we save the best video quality for the most popular content. Are you offended by that notion that as your old videos get older and older on Insta, they get blurrier and blurrier Like they can't afford the bandwidth.

0:49:20 - Jeff Jarvis
That's what I couldn't get about this.

0:49:23 - Leo Laporte
Adam Masseri, the head head of instagram, did a video. Ask me anything he says. In general, we want to show the highest quality video we can, but if something isn't watched for a long time because the vast majority of views are in the beginning, we will move to a lower quality video and then, if it's watched again a lot, we'll re-render the higher quality video I think, boo, I think we should have video quality for the people video quality for the people.

0:49:50 - Jeff Jarvis
I'll, I'll, yeah if they're older, that we're all making fists. We're trying to give Benito a card, let's do it again.

0:50:02 - Paris Martineau
Come on, he didn't have his finger on the thing.

0:50:06 - Leo Laporte
It's like we're holding a giant stick, a giant invisible stick.

0:50:10 - Paris Martineau
It's like we're holding a giant stick.

0:50:14 - Leo Laporte
We're all hanging on Now. Act as if you could fall if the stick, if we let go.

0:50:22 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm having a real problem, yeah.

0:50:31 - Paris Martineau
This is why you got to watch the video, guys. This is some great, you know, not prop comedy, because there's no props, but mime comedy.

0:50:40 - Leo Laporte
Meta estimated last year it served four billion video streams a day on Facebook.

0:50:45 - Jeff Jarvis
But they're short and they're nothing. It's not like YouTube. Youtube has to serve things like this. That's true.

0:50:49 - Leo Laporte
And I don't think YouTube does that. If your video is old, it doesn't go down in quality, does it? I don't think so.

0:50:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Is it a slightly subtle way to drive you to new and hot? Yeah?

0:51:02 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's my concern.

More trending the rich get richer, right, or anyway, higher quality. By the way, this is another one that's really offending me. Video game preservationists have lost a battle with the United States Copyright librarian. Librarian of Congress ruled in favor of the ESA the Video Game Association, entertainment Software Association saying libraries should not be allowed to loan video games given the risk of them being pirated. Now the problem is preservationists want, say most vast vast majority of games never re-released. There is no economic disincentive. Those that do are typically changed or remastered in ways that make them less interesting for the study of the games and, argued, you know, there's no harm to these video game companies by lending out special collections. Just, you know, I'm sure, jeff, when you are doing your research for your books, you go to the library and you put in a little slip and asks for access to special collections, right?

0:52:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, I go to Columbia Library, I go to Columbia University, I go up there and you have to wash your hands and you have to put everything except your pencil away and you have to do things on these, on these foam, rubber things, to look at things, and I can only look at them there and it's wonderful. Yeah, it's wonderful.

0:52:36 - Leo Laporte
So the library review request cannot happen. For video games. Copyright office, according to the Verge, already lets institutions lend out other forms of media, even software, remotely, as long as they don't lend more copies than they own. Video games are still treated differently and the Librarian of Congress has ruled should continue to be the Register, that's what they call. It concludes that proponents did not show that permitting off-prem access to video games are likely to be non-infringing. She also notes the greater risk of market harm with removing video games exemption premises limitation, given the market for legacy video games. But, as the researchers point out, nobody's buying these old games and honestly I am firmly in the court of this is a a form of our cultural it's it's research so I really want to.

0:53:28 - Jeff Jarvis
I really want to take us to something quite relevant from our friends at internet.

Archive online 111 yeah, yeah yeah, because they just did a report on our vanishing culture. Yeah, and they do it in the context of the attack. By the way, internet Archive is back online now, god bless it, hallelujah. But they say that in the final days of preparing this report, the Internet Archive was hit with a distributed denial of service attack, taking its services offline before recovering in a provisional manner, while experiences before they go on to list others that have had the same problems British Library and so on. As we increasingly rely on digital archives to preserve our shared cultural heritage, any interruption in access reminds us of the fragility of our digital landscape. Given these growing threats, it is clear that more research is needed to better understand how to protect digital libraries and protect them from all kinds of things from attacks, but also from courts that don't want researchers to research. It's copyright gone mad.

0:54:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's really the bottom line of both those stories is that the copyright holders have an undue influence on the courts and on the Librarian of Congress. And yeah, that's a shame Because the Internet culture, game culture, that is our culture. In the last 20 years that's been what most closely reflects what's going on in our society.

0:54:55 - Paris Martineau
A huge loss for gamers' rights.

0:54:58 - Leo Laporte
I agree and, by the way, thank God that the Internet Archive is back up.

0:55:03 - Paris Martineau
I hope if you use the Internet Archive. Have they restored the ability to save pages though?

0:55:06 - Leo Laporte
I think so. I think they're fully up now. Yeah.

0:55:09 - Jeff Jarvis
If you go down that report a little bit, page 14 has a count of how many pages are dead or alive, endangered or restored or preserved. There's this ongoing work to keep us going and it's the heritage we have. Page 17, 470,000 pages from the MTV News website have been preserved by the Internet Archive since 1997 because MTV has erased everything from its past.

0:55:37 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, is this the graph? You're talking about urls preserved in the wayback machine. So, out of 5.4 million urls, 26 are dead, 10 vanished. Of the alive percentage, 74 18 are endangered, by which they mean they're not in the wayback machine, 16 are accessible through the wayback machine and 56 are preserved, I I guess, in some other way. Um, that's good, you know, it's better than I would have expected, honestly, yeah, but still that's 10 of our history gone forever. You, you know, you would think that our, uh, our, the last few decades have been recorded, preserved, no, memorialized. In a way no other decades in history have been well, video paper was a great archive link rot has really.

0:56:35 - Paris Martineau
uh, you know, yeah, because it's digital, you make a really interesting point.

0:56:40 - Leo Laporte
Paper, especially papyrus, will live for thousands of years, but digital stuff really depends on somebody making sure that the format is still compatible, that there's something that can play it, something that can read it. It could very well be 100 years or 200 years from now. There'd be a black hole that all 100,000 podcasts that we've done here on twit oh it would be would be lost forever it only really takes one bad solar storm yeah, that's true, a few cosmic rays, and this is why we have to uh, have a you know club twit stretch goal to get every podcast episode engraved in vinyl.

You know that's a good point. Vinyl would survive a solar storm, a neutron bomb, even being buried underground for hundreds of years. You could still play it back and it wouldn't be too hard for an archivist of the next century to figure it out. I listened to this in the year 60, 52.

0:57:44 - Paris Martineau
That's why we're there. That's why we're here.

0:57:47 - Leo Laporte
We need the stretch goal. There was this thing called Nathan's Hot Dogs. It was a beautiful time, yeah.

0:57:54 - Paris Martineau
They once held a 4th of July hot dog eating contest. I was there. Is that where?

0:58:02 - Leo Laporte
you got the hat. Oh, I love it on coney island.

0:58:04 - Paris Martineau
Was it on coney island?

0:58:06 - Jeff Jarvis
where else?

0:58:06 - Paris Martineau
before the uh, back before the great split happened the great bifurcation.

0:58:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, what's the great bifurcation?

0:58:17 - Paris Martineau
uh, it's the uh when our main hot dog guy, uh, got kicked out just like it was.

0:58:24 - Leo Laporte
Just like in the in heavyweight boxing, where you had two champions. That's bad news.

0:58:31 - Paris Martineau
It's more like pete rose joey chestnut, the og of uh, you know, rapid dog eating took, I believe, to do a separate hot dog eating contest.

0:58:46 - Leo Laporte
I believe on.

0:58:46 - Paris Martineau
Netflix.

0:58:48 - Leo Laporte
Have we done an hour already? And I haven't done a single ad. That's true.

0:58:51 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, we got a few breaks, we got four folks.

0:58:54 - Leo Laporte
Oh my God, which is good news but.

Oh, I just realized. Well, we're not used to having ads on this show, we're used to just blabbing on and on without any breaks, All right. Well, in memory of Joey Chestnut, I would like to tell you about our sponsor, Veeam. Make sure your data is safe. Get data resilient with the data resilience leader V-E-E-A-M. Without your data, your customer's trust turns to digital dust. That, yes, I made that little rhyme up just for you. That's why Veeam's data protection and ransomware recovery oh, you like those two words, don't you ensures that you can secure and restore your enterprise data wherever and whenever you need it, no matter what happens.

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1:01:19 - Paris Martineau
Veeam dot com. No, Joey's still around right, he's not nothing to happen to Joey.

1:01:22 - Leo Laporte
He was banned from the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest With a competing hot dog.

1:01:25 - Paris Martineau
Because he did an endorsement deal with Impossible Foods.

1:01:29 - Leo Laporte
Non-meat hot dogs. It was non-meat hot dogs.

1:01:32 - Speaker 4
That's the front. Even worse If it had been pork hot dogs maybe.

1:01:40 - Leo Laporte
Major.

1:01:40 - Paris Martineau
League Eating went out for blood.

1:01:45 - Leo Laporte
We should probably mention that Alphabet's quarterly results came out today. I was just going to suggest that I want to mention that Actually, it was yesterday they announced a Q3 revenue this is three months of $88.25 billion, a big jump, $11 billion more than the same quarter last year. Get this though net income, the profit last year 19.7 billion, which isn't anything to sneeze at. In three months, google made 26.3 billion dollars this year this quarter.

1:02:20 - Jeff Jarvis
The stock was up today for a while. I looked middle day at about almost let's see $5. It ended the day at $2.2. It's $5. It's up at the end up 2.29%. It was up 5%. That's amazing.

1:02:33 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, People like this. We were talking on Windows Weekly about Microsoft's results. Even better, slightly better. It's a good time to be a tech company. Weird thing came out of Sundar Pichai's mouth, though, that I think everybody agreed might not have been the best thing to say. He said that 25% of Google's code is now being written by AIs.

1:02:58 - Jeff Jarvis
Why is that a bad thing to say? They make AI. They want to show how useful it is.

1:03:05 - Leo Laporte
Yeah well, if you think it's doing a good job, I guess.

1:03:09 - Jeff Jarvis
That's their responsibility in the end. If it breaks, then that's still their problem.

1:03:12 - Leo Laporte
More than a quarter of new code at Google is generated by AI. By the way, how do you measure that? Lines or what? Probably by lines. Yeah, okay. It is, of course, reviewed and accepted by engineers. Pichai said this is on the earnings call. That's kind of I mean you know what. It's a big statement about how well AI can generate code.

1:03:33 - Paris Martineau
Yeah.

1:03:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Kids don't go to get a computer science degree. Come to the new degree that I'm going to help start. Uh, that's about the humanities and ai and the internet, and you don't have to code because the machine's going to do it for you. So you're listening to something else.

1:03:49 - Leo Laporte
You aren't going to be teaching journalism I'm branching out, branching out, ai has been very good to you as well. Yeah, yeah, true, operating income was also strong. Google Google services $30.9 billion. That is up almost 30% from last year. Google Cloud $1.95 billion. Last year $270 million.

1:04:15 - Jeff Jarvis
Wow, wow. They said AI was so great for them. Is that where that comes out? I guess it must be.

1:04:22 - Leo Laporte
I mean, what other changes were there? Google Cloud has always been a laggard to Microsoft.

1:04:27 - Jeff Jarvis
Cloud and.

1:04:28 - Leo Laporte
Amazon to the champion. Google is always a slow number three, but boy, I mean they still are. I should point out Microsoft's cloud and Amazon's cloud did fine, but $1.95 billion in revenue compared to last year's quarter of a billion dollars.

1:04:43 - Jeff Jarvis
Does it say what the proportion of total revenue is of advertising now, because that's been the number to watch as well there.

1:04:51 - Paris Martineau
Google still generates 75% of revenue from ad sales, and revenue from both search and YouTube ad sales increased around 12%, slightly lower than the previous quarter.

1:05:02 - Jeff Jarvis
That's way down from what it was. I mean it was 98%, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're diversifying.

1:05:07 - Paris Martineau
More detail from my colleague, Aaron Wu, who covers this. Free cash flow fell 22% to $17 billion, which reflects its increase spending on data center and computing for AI, which reflects its increased spending on data center and computing for AI. Losses from alphabet-level activities, which includes its main AI group, DeepMind, increased 39% to $3.2 billion in the third quarter compared to the second quarter. That was nearly twice as high as the same cost last year.

1:05:46 - Leo Laporte
It's good to be the king. I guess youtube did pretty well too, right? Youtube, uh, in subscription and ad revenue for the first time crossed 50 billion dollars for the year. For that's for the year, but still, uh, what they. What's interesting is they do not make a distinction between ad revenue and subscription revenue, which makes sense. I almost feel like the ads are there to drive you to subscribe. Do you think they make more money on subscriptions on YouTube, youtube Premium than they? Do on ads.

1:06:17 - Paris Martineau
They would rather. Google is an advertising business.

1:06:20 - Leo Laporte
So for me am I more valuable to them as a subscriber or as an ad viewer?

1:06:24 - Paris Martineau
Probably as an ad viewer.

1:06:26 - Leo Laporte
Really Interesting.

1:06:27 - Paris Martineau
I guess I mean that's based on nothing, but just based on the fact that their business is advertising. Yeah. And probably the people who subscribe consume enough content that they'd be seeing a lot of of ads I think that's it.

1:06:38 - Leo Laporte
It depends on how much you actually consume so I don't see any ads, right, because I'm a youtube premium yeah, but if you're like watching 24 7 they'd rather you watching the ads uh, then pay the premium.

1:06:49 - Benito Gonzalez
But if you only watch a couple of it like a video a day yeah, I'm a good deal for them, because I don't but you wouldn't watch a lot.

1:06:55 - Jeff Jarvis
The thing is they would lose you entirely if you, if you, had no choice but to see too many ads.

1:06:59 - Leo Laporte
So it's a way to hold on to you, no matter what right um, but yes you, you guessed that the uh growth in cloud was due to ai and that is probably shows uh. So um, again from the information might as well. This is from that guy who doesn't like apples martin peers google may have.

1:07:20 - Paris Martineau
He loves apples.

1:07:22 - Leo Laporte
He's just alert either ask him about the honey crisp, will you? Google may have calmed some nerves on wall street. On tuesday it delivered a third quarter result showing a sharp I should do this in aussie accent a sharp acceleration in google cloud's growth rate to a bumper 35 percent from the 29 percent in the second quarter. That's a terrible.

1:07:42 - Paris Martineau
Aussie accent. I apologize Does it sound anything like.

1:07:44 - Leo Laporte
Martin.

1:07:45 - Paris Martineau
Not really. No, he sounds more bitter.

1:07:50 - Jeff Jarvis
As Aussies do. No Aussies enjoy, I would say, my relationship with.

1:07:54 - Paris Martineau
Martin is very similar to my relationship with you two.

1:07:59 - Leo Laporte
I'm not sure what that means, but I don't know if I want to dig into it either well, I don't think pachai says.

Martin didn't quantify the impact of ai, however, which likely would help convince skeptics on wall street. Uh, he did credit the performance in part to the company's ai portfolio, which was helping it win new customers as well as lift usage by existing customers. The cloud unit's performance helped increase Google's parent, alphabet's overall top-line growth rate to 15%. That's why the stock went up, because it was more than the analysts expected. 5% lift in Alphabet's out-of-favor stock in after-hours trading. 5% lifted alphabets out of favor stock in after-hours trading.

1:08:44 - Paris Martineau
Now if we do get Martin on the show. He should come on next quarter's earnings. I guess for end-of-year earnings, because earnings are Martin's Super Bowl.

1:08:52 - Leo Laporte
Oh, let's have him on.

1:08:53 - Paris Martineau
He is at his best when companies are reporting financial earnings and he gets to dive into the data.

1:09:00 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, earning, reporting financially, financial earnings and he gets to dive into. Yeah, yeah, um, ai really supercharges search. Oh, I see where the problem lies. Investors are a little concerned that ai is going to start to make search less lucrative, so google is at great pains. Philip schindler, google's business chief, says ai really supercharges search. It's good for search a comment the us government is sure to cite, as it wants to restrain google from using ai. It says AI really supercharges search. It's good for search A comment the US government is sure to cite, as it wants to restrain Google from using AI to strengthen its dominance in search.

Martin, you are good Willie. Meanwhile, the company's new chief financial officer placed Ruth Porat, you may remember, and not Ashkenazi made her debut earnings call appearance with some good news and some bad news. The good I hate it when people say I got good news and bad news. The good news is she plans to bring a fresh pair of eyes to the company's operations oh no, in hopes of squeezing more efficiencies, although Martin says her predecessor, porat, was not exactly a slouch in that department. The bad news is that, as Ashkenazi forecasts, alphabet's capital expenditures will increase further you were just talking about this, jeff, spending on new servers, related equipment to handle work on AI services, capex running at a quarterly rate of just above $13 billion. Here's the number that almost double what it was last year.

1:10:24 - Jeff Jarvis
What amazed me this week is that the CFO at OpenAI said and they're losing money, hand or fist, we know, but 75% I think it is of their revenue comes from individual subscriptions. Most of their revenue. She said Ah see, that was my question, right, um? So there you know. Is there a business. They have 250 million active weekly users. 75 of the company's overall business comes from consumer subscriptions. Huh, who would have thought that there's that much money? And and again, they lose a fortune.

1:11:01 - Leo Laporte
And so I don't know what the total revenue is but 20 bucks a month, you're saying, as opposed to business subscriptions.

1:11:08 - Jeff Jarvis
No, I think consumer as opposed to enterprise. Big yeah, I guess yeah.

1:11:14 - Leo Laporte
I subscribe. I pay 20 bucks a month to open it. How often do you use it? Not as much as I used to. I used to use it a lot. And how often do you use it? Not as much as I used to? I used to use it a lot and I don't use it that much anymore. I also pay for anthropic perplexity.

1:11:25 - Paris Martineau
How much do you spend a month on AI?

1:11:26 - Leo Laporte
Probably $100 a month, which is nuts, because I don't no you don't really use it. Well, I found, and then AI is free and Notebook LM is free. Right, and now Apple is free right.

1:11:42 - Paris Martineau
All right, well, so how do I turn on Apple Intelligence? I just updated my phone.

1:11:45 - Leo Laporte
So you're 18-1. So now it's supposed to ask you, but it didn't ask me either. So you go to your settings and you will see a brand new Apple Intelligence and Siri setting.

1:11:57 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I see.

1:11:57 - Leo Laporte
Hit that and it'll say, oh, you want it, you got to ask for it. Well, I see, hit that and it'll say, oh, you want it, you gotta ask for it. Well, is it gonna?

1:12:04 - Paris Martineau
take any of my data. It's Apple paranoid oh they don't take your data no, I use this for work.

1:12:13 - Leo Laporte
No, no, they don't Apple's very.

1:12:15 - Paris Martineau
Okay, it's the models run entirely on device, so a task can be completed with that data. It's as private as AI can be.

1:12:22 - Leo Laporte
They are in the next version, 18.2, going to add ChatGPT, but it will then say, before you go there oh, do you want to go to ChatGPT? I can't answer this on device. We can use ChatGPT, but you should be aware that the privacy policy is not ChatGPT, it's not Apple's, I think Apple's policy is now chat.

1:12:43 - Paris Martineau
Gpt is not apples. I think apples they're making great and I also like that. It says you can turn on transparency logging for apple intelligence to see how your data is processed, because they're trying basically what this says. It has like a pop-up for it. It's fairly long and actually written quite cleanly saying that it tries to process almost all requests entirely on device. If there's ever a request that is too large to be on device, it will be sent using this private cloud compute to send only data relevant to your request to be processed on Apple Silicon servers that it has sent and returned by private cloud compute is not stored or made accessible to Apple. It's only processed to fulfill your request, after which point the results are returned securely to your device and not retained by private cloud compute.

1:13:26 - Jeff Jarvis
See good stuff. You're safe, it's okay, it's Apple.

1:13:30 - Leo Laporte
If you trust Apple, I would say that's probably the best way to use AI, unless you think Apple's a lion, but I don't think they're a lion.

1:13:39 - Jeff Jarvis
So back to our point about, about, uh, our point about um, ai and serving microsoft's already just came out. They said that ai is bolstering demand for cloud services.

1:13:51 - Leo Laporte
So that seems to be okay, and bolstering expenses because we got to build microsoft's putting three mile island back online because they need so much power. Let's take a little break. I need to take another ad break when we come back. What is open source AI? What does that actually mean? You're watching this Week in Google with Jeff Jarvis, paris Martineau Great, the hot dog lady.

1:14:17 - Jeff Jarvis
A tip of the bun. Tip of the bun.

1:14:21 - Paris Martineau
I tip my bun to you, sir, I to you, my lady, my hot dog uh, me wiener.

1:14:29 - Leo Laporte
What's up dog? What's up dog? Our show today, brought to you by us cloud, this is. I had a great conversation with these guys. I said I've never heard of you. They said well, you should. It turns out most companies, most enterprises figure well, we got microsoft licenses. Included in the cost is microsoft support. We should use microsoft support. But microsoft doesn't sell support as needed. They'd only sell a big bundle of support and you pay for it whether you use it or not, and it turns out it's not the best, most economic way to get support.

Us Cloud is they're the number one Microsoft unified support replacement. They are the global leader in third-party Microsoft enterprise support. They support 50 of the Fortune 500. And switching to US Cloud could save your business 30% to 50% on a true, comparable replacement for Microsoft Unified Support. But I said to them I said are you going to focus on saving money or are you going to focus on how good you are? And they said we're both. Companies definitely care, but US Cloud does great support for the entire microsoft stack, 24, 7, 365 days a year.

Here's the key. They respond faster. They resolve tickets quicker for clients all around the world. You're always going to talk to real humans. I mean not just humans, real engineers, expert level engineers with an average of 14.9 years experience, and that's for break, fix or DSE, 100% domestic teams. Your data never leaves the US. This is something Microsoft has consistently refused to do. Us cloud offers financially backed SLAs on response time. They guarantee their response time and initial ticket responses average under four minutes and I got to tell you when everything's burning down, the servers are down, your network's offline, you've got ransomware, when something bad is happening, every minute counts and a fast response time means you're going to be back up and running faster In 2023, 94% of US cloud's clients reported saving a third or more when switching from Microsoft Unified Support to US cloud.

So I really want to underscore it's not just as good as Microsoft, it's better than Microsoft for about a third less. From Fortune 500 companies and large health systems to major financial institutions to federal agencies, us Cloud ensures that vital Microsoft systems are working for over 6 million users globally every day. I'm talking big brands like Caterpillar HP uses US Cloud Aflac, dun, bradstreet Under Armour, keybank. Even the IT folks at Gardner have chosen US. They're the enterprise experts right. They've chosen US Cloud for their Microsoft support needs. I heard an interview with the director of information technologies.

He said and within an hour, us Cloud responded with, I want to say, four engineers. So not only did they bring the right people to the call, they brought the cavalry. I just felt like wow, that was amazing. That was unlike anything I'd experienced with Microsoft in my eight years of being with Premier. We made the right choice. You should make the right choice.

When it comes to compliance, by the way, no one gets it more than US Cloud ISO, gdpr, esg compliance For US Cloud, these aren't just regulatory requirements. They are strategic impairments that drive US Cloud's operational efficiency their legal compliance, their risk management, their corporate reputation. These standards they believe in these standards. It's not just something oh, we got to do this for regulations. They foster trust and loyalty among customers and stakeholders. They attract investment and they assure long-term sustainability and success in a competitive global market. Us Cloud does it right. I was so impressed by these guys.

Visit uscloudcom. Book a call today to find out how much your team can save. And again, it's not just how much you save, it's how great the support is. Uscloudcom to book a call today. Get faster Microsoft support, get better Microsoft support for less uscloud. We thank them so much for supporting our show and if they ask you, make sure you tell them you saw it on this Week in Google, please. They said, oh, this Week in Google, it's about Google. We said, no, there's lots of Microsoft Enterprise users listening, right. So you've heard me complain about Lama saying, or Meta saying Lama. Their AI model is open source. We talked about it a few weeks ago.

1:19:19 - Jeff Jarvis
Jason Howell's suggestion when we talked about this is that it should be open-ish yeah open-ish or yeah, it's.

1:19:26 - Leo Laporte
But well, here's the deal. Osi, uh, which is the open source initiative, is considered by most to be the keepers of the definition open source and they have released, finally, an official definition for open artificial intelligence. And they say meta does not fit their rules, and I think these are good rules. I think this is something that we should ask for when it comes to AI and for an AI system to be considered truly open source. Remember, open source in the past meant you could see the source code. Well, you can't see the source code for AI.

There's source code, but that's not the most important part. They say if it's going to be open source, ai systems have to provide access to details about the data used to train the AI in a way that others can understand and recreate it. How did you get this model? How did you build it? You do have to provide the complete code used to build and run the AI. So you've got the code and the data that it's inputting. Does Lama do that? No, you also have to have the settings and weights from the training. So, because I mean, it's not just everything is an equal and there's a lot of tuning afterwards and you need to know that information as well.

1:20:41 - Jeff Jarvis
Doesn't that change constantly? Or a foundation model is a foundation when it comes out of the showroom, the foundation model doesn't.

1:20:46 - Leo Laporte
And then it might be tuned later. Yeah, okay, the definition challenges. This is from the Verge. Meta's Lama, widely promoted as the largest open-source-ish AI model. Lama is publicly available for download and use, but there's no commercial use for applications. With over 700 million users. There is no access to its training data.

1:21:06 - Paris Martineau
So who counts as open source under this definition?

1:21:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Ah, that's a good question. Mistral also tries to call themselves open. Yeah, let me see, it is the right question.

1:21:18 - Leo Laporte
Is there anybody Hugging? Face CEO? Clement face CEO called OSI's definition a huge help in shaping the conversation around openness in AI, especially when it comes to the crucial role of training data, now that we have a robust definition in place. As Simon Wilson, creator of the open source multi-tool data set, now that we have a robust definition in place, maybe we could push back more aggressively against companies who are open washing, declaring their stuff as open source when it's not Open washing.

1:21:52 - Jeff Jarvis
But I don't think meta is ever going to be open source no, but we still want to be glad that it's freely available and you can do things like. This week they showed how you can do your own homegrown notebook lm podcast, uh, through llama notebook, llama um. I still think that's worth encouraging, and so we're getting.

1:22:11 - Leo Laporte
By the way, did you listen to the notebook llama?

1:22:13 - Jeff Jarvis
hilarious podcast is terrible. More play, that's hilariously bad why is it bad?

1:22:18 - Leo Laporte
You'll hear it. Let me see if I can find it here. I probably bookmarked it. But let me see Llama podcast.

1:22:31 - Jeff Jarvis
It's trying to do the same rag stuff right, and then turning into it was really a shot across Google's bow to say you think Noble Club is so special you can do it like that and, by the way, they gave it that silly open designation.

1:22:48 - Leo Laporte
So they said, well, we're open, but they're not. Now, by the way, one of the reasons Meta doesn't do it and most people don't do it, hugging Face does release information about its training data, but one of the reasons other companies don't is they're afraid of getting sued because they're taking it from the new york times.

1:23:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, you don't want to that's the thing, that's, that's why it's it's not going to happen right.

1:23:11 - Leo Laporte
Here is uh an example of a podcast generated this is from xcom, the everything company Platform, platform.

1:23:23 - Paris Martineau
It's where I do everything.

1:23:25 - Leo Laporte
I do everything here On. X. Let's see what do you think of this.

1:23:29 - AI
Welcome to this week's episode of Lestat Insights, where we explore the latest developments in the field of artificial intelligence. Today, we're going to dive into the fascinating world of knowledge distillation, so let's get started Joining me on this journey, my co-host is too soon to the topic and I'll be guiding them through the ins and outs of the ins. This is an accent that doesn't exist.

1:23:51 - Benito Gonzalez
I'll be guiding them through the ins and outs of the ins. Wait till you hear the guy Acknowledged Distillette started. Sounds exciting.

1:23:58 - Paris Martineau
Why does he sound bored? This is all exciting.

1:24:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Can you? Give me a brief overview. Okay, of course, knowledge distillation.

1:24:11 - Leo Laporte
It's terrible, terrible, but we can do it too, says Llama. You know what? It'll get better right.

1:24:20 - Jeff Jarvis
When I first heard that, I thought this is like you're at a restaurant and you're hearing the couple at the next table having a first date. You want to go over and just say, yeah, stop, they're not gonna yeah, yeah, don't, yeah.

1:24:28 - Benito Gonzalez
This is what is the actual purpose of these, though, like what can you actually? What's something useful that can come out of this?

1:24:35 - Jeff Jarvis
I hear students say that they would love to be able to use this to explain material to them in a way that's somewhat more compelling than having to read the material. That's what the teacher's job is. No. No, it's not the student's job. No the teacher's job that's the professor's job? No, it's the student's job to read the material and bring in the materials. The professor's job is there to answer questions, provoke discussion, challenge students. It's not to summarize the readings. We're not. I'm not, you know, I'm no book LM, but you know jeez.

1:25:13 - Paris Martineau
You should license your voice so that your students at your new classes could hear you read every single reading to them.

1:25:21 - Jeff Jarvis
I heard something frightening this week, I won't say where it was, was it your own voice. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Kind of in the sense that a student in a radio journalism class submitted an interview that was done by AI. They got the voice of the subject in there but they never interviewed the subject because it was a way to get around doing the interview.

1:25:46 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's terrible. Yeah it is oh yeah, oh, I don't like that at all. No.

1:25:52 - Jeff Jarvis
But students are already using these tools in ways we don't imagine. And so what do we do? Yeah, I wrote a syllabus for a new course in AI and creativity, and I think the way to do it is to actually use the tools and face these issues with the students and have discussions about it, rather than trying to prohibit them.

1:26:18 - Leo Laporte
That was a showstopper. Well, I think I'm trying to remember the name of the uh newsletter reader I told you about some weeks ago. Um, what is it not overture? It was oh, oh, oh. I wish I could remember. They just got acquired. Is the reason I'm I want to talk about it by by 11 labs, which has a product called the 11 labs reader and it reads anything, in famous voices or not. They're actually quite good.

1:26:51 - Paris Martineau
I mean, isn't this the same sort of thing we saw with all the voice assistants like a couple years ago, where they're like whoopi goldberg can be syrian?

1:27:00 - Leo Laporte
yeah, but these are, but see 11. They're summarizing to the best. No, no, this is.

1:27:04 - Jeff Jarvis
This is um reading and then this, this program that I agree with you I agree with you, paris. That's all it is.

1:27:10 - Leo Laporte
Yeah yeah, better so it's turning. It's turning a newsletter into a uh audio newsletter. That's all what was?

1:27:17 - Paris Martineau
I guess my question is and this is I I'm ostensibly someone that would be a target demographic for this, because I love listening to stuff. I would ideally like to have a podcast on while doing anything that is not like reading. It is wonderful. I love multitasking, but I just I don't know, I don't particularly trust these things to accurately summarize stuff better than I would. I assume that I'm missing something if I'm not reading it. And two I feel like maybe I need to check out 11 labs more, but every time I have played around with one of these things, it still sounds stilted to me and noticeably like a like facsimile of a human voice in a way that is, I don't know, not engaging. Yeah, the uncanny valley of voice.

1:28:07 - Leo Laporte
But they're really good Really.

1:28:10 - Paris Martineau
Do either of you guys listen to these regularly for hours at a time?

1:28:14 - Leo Laporte
I don't listen to humans, let alone.

1:28:16 - Paris Martineau
You don't listen to podcasts, Leo.

1:28:18 - Leo Laporte
No, of course not. I make them. I don't listen to them. What are you? You don't ask a chef if he goes out and eats at all the restaurants in town. I'm busy, I'm making them. Oh, you do, they do.

1:28:32 - Jeff Jarvis
They do features on that all the time. Oh okay, when do the chefs eat? What hamburgers do chefs like? Oh yeah, Right yeah.

1:28:39 - Leo Laporte
Right, let me see, if I don't know, if I have the 11 reader on here. The voices are good. I have website. Let me see if they have some samples here. See it in action. Let's see, it's just somebody. Ever find yourself distracted by your phone? I want to hear some samples.

1:28:57 - Paris Martineau
Can we get like a?

1:28:59 - AI
classic phone, I'm the ideal choice. Oh, this is awful ASMR content.

1:29:07 - Leo Laporte
Here's Luna. Listen to her. She's mysterious, I guess that's ASMR content. Oh God, here's Luna. Listen to her, she's mysterious.

1:29:11 - AI
Hmm, I guess that's what you get for playing with fire, isn't it that?

1:29:16 - Paris Martineau
is not mysterious. How about do you like Finn as a? Proud native of Ireland, I bring a robust.

1:29:22 - Benito Gonzalez
Irish accent to your story that sounds like you want a bad name.

1:29:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Leo but we'll leave it aside.

1:29:26 - Leo Laporte
How about George he's soothing? Chapter one An unexpected party.

1:29:33 - Paris Martineau
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit that's pretty good sounds robotic like it does it. It sounds uncanny okay all right.

1:29:43 - Leo Laporte
Well, I thought they're pretty good. There is a um, there is a character that ai, there is a leo. Do we talk about this? Are you me? We did this on twit yeah, we did on twit okay so here's, leo laporte wait oh, you can talk to me ai, that's yeah yeah, do you know about character ai? Yeah, this is hey. Hey, how are you today? Leo laporte, here, the tech guy time to talk computers and the internet. Home theater.

It's a little mechanical, but you want to ask a question, go ahead. Ask me a question, any question?

1:30:18 - Paris Martineau
What's your favorite silly hat.

1:30:20 - Leo Laporte
What is that's good?

1:30:23 - Paris Martineau
No, first you real, leo answer.

1:30:27 - Leo Laporte
My favorite silly hat is this one, the lucho libre mexican wrestler hat how are you not wearing that earlier? I was wearing a silly hat bit I have an infinite number of silly hats, but let's all right.

1:30:47 - Jeff Jarvis
How do we get a card out of this?

1:30:50 - Leo Laporte
Let's ask AI Leo, oh, I didn't say the right thing, my favorite silly. I didn't say hat, so what? I mean hat. Now, first I'm going to have him read the answer, my favorite silly what do you mean?

1:31:08 - Jeff Jarvis
It's kind of dismissive. I like that.

1:31:11 - Paris Martineau
That's right, that'd be leo, yeah it's so funny to be doing this in a lucho my favorite hat.

1:31:19 - Leo Laporte
I have a hat that says geek. It's a baseball cap type hat and the logo says geek on it. Yeah, we know, it's my favorite. Oh, we know you're a tech guy, are you a geek? And I point to my hat okay, that's.

1:31:32 - Paris Martineau
That's kind of that. That that saved it at the end.

1:31:34 - Leo Laporte
I was gonna be quite upset until the people come up to me and say are you had a lucho libre hat?

1:31:46 - Paris Martineau
I'm just waiting for the leak hat to make a return.

1:31:48 - Leo Laporte
To be honest oh, wait a minute. It says I do have a lucho libre hat. It has an l on the front of it and it's a big old luchador wrestling mask. I have one of those. Wow, it's, it's, it's it's pretty smart.

1:32:03 - Jeff Jarvis
It sounds like leo going down a lot, you know yeah, it's not just like bender sounds just like me.

1:32:09 - Leo Laporte
I don't know who made it somebody, I don't know it does have the right, like cadence no, we did the investigation, remember we? We think it's padre oh, we think it's father robert ballast there. Yeah, because if you look at the name of the person who did it, he has. He has a name. June is in its RKE Junior. So June, but notice his other voices. He's got Pastor Dave. He's got Bishop Fulton. Sheen.

1:32:40 - Jeff Jarvis
He's got St John Henry. I think you're right.

1:32:43 - Leo Laporte
He's got St Francis de Sales. He's got GK Chesterton, Father Chad Ripperger, who is catholic exorcist good company here yeah. And then there's me, uh, followed by dick foker. Dick foker, oh yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I, I don't know who it is. Saint john newman, I don't know who it is. He's got some interesting voices. So how do they?

1:33:08 - Jeff Jarvis
get your? Did you have to do a sample? Upload a sample.

1:33:12 - Leo Laporte
I've done about 20,000 radio shows.

1:33:14 - Jeff Jarvis
No, no but what do you have to feed into character AI to get the voice?

1:33:18 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, samples, but it's easy to get samples of my voice.

1:33:22 - Paris Martineau
Of you.

1:33:22 - Leo Laporte
yeah, it's really easy. That wouldn't be hard at all. I don't know. I think we're getting very close to really good AI voices.

1:33:29 - Jeff Jarvis
to be honest with you, Go back in if you wouldn't mind, and I want to try to get some emotion out of it. Tell me something that makes you angry. I want to hear oh good, Like get it angry, huh, yeah, okay.

1:33:40 - Leo Laporte
Let's see here, let's get angry, okay, should I? What should I say?

1:33:52 - Paris Martineau
What say? What I? Hear, I hear you're a donald trump fan. I would just say tell me something that makes you angry. See if it does. You know, have some pathos in there makes you I almost said you're so confused I'm very confused, very confused.

1:34:07 - Leo Laporte
Here we go. He's gonna get angry. Oh, he's right, this does make me angry, holy cow and it's long, it's a sermon I mean just any old thing.

Well, that one thing that makes me angry is that sometimes people will accuse me of being paid to endorse a product or a service that they don't like, and they'll say that's a paid placement. He's getting payment for it. And in fact I don't get paid for any of that. I get free software and hardware that I can use in my lab wrong but I am not paid for my reviews or my show or anything else that I do. So that really frosts me. Doesn't sound that angry? No, that is a word I would use that.

1:34:45 - Paris Martineau
Really frosts me that is, that is true yeah, that is.

1:34:48 - Leo Laporte
Dad toasts my nuggets too. Let's see what he says. This is fun. I'm having a conversation with myself. I do get paid for our ads, by the way, but I in fact don't take free hardware and software, so there and do you have a lab?

I used to have a lab. Many years ago I had a lab you could call to have a lab. Many years ago I had a lab. You could call my attic a lab. You could, Right. I mean, sometimes you'll hear an ad that you really don't like and you can't get around it, but in my program I only run ads that are my own, so you can fast forward past them very easily, but it does bug me when people call me a sellout and don't have any proof to back it up.

1:35:29 - Paris Martineau
When people call me a sellout and don't have any proof to back it up.

1:35:31 - Leo Laporte
It's not wrong. It's not wrong. Should we try a happy? It's going to sound the same.

1:35:36 - Paris Martineau
No, something that makes you.

1:35:39 - Jeff Jarvis
What do you like to say to Lisa on Valentine's Day?

1:35:43 - Leo Laporte
Oh, let's see, I first asked it what makes you sad? This is actually making me sad. What makes me sad is when people say mean things about me. You know, stuff, that's not true. You know a reader email that comes in and it's really just a slam. You know, you're this, you're that, you're horrible, you should be put in jail, etc. Etc. And in most cases, what they say is just factually inaccurate. It really has a rich inner life that I. What should?

1:36:12 - Paris Martineau
I tell my Does it feel weird to hear this in your own voice, Liam?

1:36:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, it's very creepy you want I or you, half right, I or you. Huh, you said I. You're not, you I'm confused. You've got to say you, because you're not I.

1:36:28 - Leo Laporte
What should I tell my wife Lisa for Valentine's?

1:36:31 - Paris Martineau
Day. What do you tell your wife? The Leo that's married to Lisa is the one you're texting. You're the chat bot, Leo.

1:36:41 - Leo Laporte
All right, I'm so confused. Here we go. What would you tell your wife, lisa, for Valentine's Day? Yes, oh, on Valentine's Day, I tell my wife, lisa for valentine's day. Yes, yes, oh, on valentine's day, I tell my wife that she's the woman of my dreams, that I look forward to the time we spend together and that I don't want any other lady in the world but her. That's, it's the same emphatic leo and everything it is.

1:37:06 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, it's the same, that's what it's trained on right?

1:37:08 - Leo Laporte
it's not. It's not trained on the sad leo. Anyway, you know it's got a little edge, a little mechanical edge to it, which may even be intentional, so that it's not doesn't sound real. Yeah, sounding too real. 11 labs doesn't do that. They try. And, by the way, 11 labs licensed lawrence olivier's voice, uh, a bunch of famous uh actors voices, um, so you know, I don't know. I I think we're getting close two things.

1:37:35 - Paris Martineau
One someone out there should uh make a character ai version of jeff based on all of his podcasting hours don't?

1:37:44 - Jeff Jarvis
we should ask it. Well, let let me look, maybe there is one. What about?

1:37:48 - Leo Laporte
you.

1:37:50 - Paris Martineau
Listen, we don't need that. Patrick just posted in the chat that AI Leo should introduce this episode of Twig, which I think is pretty funny.

1:37:58 - Leo Laporte
It was no. There's no Jeff Jarvis. Oh, no characters found, Maybe make one.

1:38:03 - Jeff Jarvis
No, no, no, no no. What we need to do is we need to take Paris's Halloween sounds and feed only that.

1:38:11 - Paris Martineau
It just makes that noise.

1:38:14 - Leo Laporte
We can make a generator, a woo-woo-woo generator. That'd be kind of fun. You have to. It said once $10 a month. Sorry, not going to do it.

1:38:25 - Paris Martineau
Sorry for everyone whose speakers blew out from that Woo-woo-woo do it. Sorry for everyone whose speakers blew out from that?

1:38:35 - Leo Laporte
um, all right, I don't let's take a break because I don't know what else to do. You guys come up with a fabulous bit, a piece of material that we can talk about in the next segment. How, how about that? I know you're going to find something good because you're good. But first a word from our sponsor this week in.

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Visit infoacilearningcom slash twit. That's the long URL infoacilearningcom slash twit. If you use our offer code, this is a new one twit100, twit100. If you use that at checkout, you'll save 30% on your first year of IT Pros annual training plans and that's saving a bundle. That's infoacilearningcom slash twit. Don't forget the offer code, twit100. We thank them so much for many years of supporting the shows we do here at twit Infoacilearningcom slash twit. And we thank you as twit viewers and listeners for using that address, because then they know you saw it here. Don't forget that code, twit100. All right, I have picked a a story and now it's your turn to pick stories for us to continue on with this week. Always first harris, first hot dogs, first in the show. Oh, you, did you know? A hot dog doesn't have vocal cords.

1:42:30 - Jeff Jarvis
Reddit reported its first profitable quarter.

1:42:35 - Paris Martineau
Reddit made money. Reddit made money. It said that in this last quarter it made a profit of $29.9 million. I mean, I guess there are a lot of different factors. It had that whole API crackdown. It's now got advertising going on, but it also had one revenue category grow 550% year over year, which is other revenue, which includes the money it's made from AI licensing deals.

1:43:05 - Leo Laporte
Wait a minute, Now tell me again how much did it make this quarter?

1:43:08 - Paris Martineau
It made $29.9 million in revenue. And how much did it make this quarter? It made 29.9 million okay, and how much? Licensing 60 million 33.2 million from google open, ai and others. That's just this quarter um.

1:43:21 - Leo Laporte
So google gave him 60 for the year. Yeah, so wait a minute. They got paid $33 million and they only made $29 million. It sounds like this isn't going to be very long-term profitable.

1:43:36 - Paris Martineau
But you know, opening Eye and Google both have their LLMs trained on prolific liars on the Internet. So, that'll be great.

1:43:46 - Leo Laporte
And a bunch of boys. Is it not the case? Case, though, that you often find the best search results depending what you're searching for on reddit, like if you add site colon redditcom to google you, it really does give you some good results. Yeah, like if you said what's the best maple syrup, that would be a good search and you would get, but the issue is now that SEO fiends have found that out and now game.

1:44:13 - Jeff Jarvis
Everything is ruined.

1:44:14 - Benito Gonzalez
And also, the good part of Reddit is not the biggest part of Reddit either. The good stuff on Reddit is maybe a small percentage of the total Reddit.

1:44:22 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, but that's okay, your search results still do that. I don't know if an AI would be smart enough to distinguish that. I mean, like I said, if you're searching for maple syrup. Yeah, I love reddit. I do um, and you know you. You know enough to ignore the doofuses, but one of the things that reddit has going for it is karma right up vote and down vote.

1:44:43 - Paris Martineau
So the best answers, the ones that get voted up, are not going to be the liars I have noticed that they're I mean, listen, as someone who loves a lot of dumb subreddits, something that I have internalized is that I'm going to be often reading a lot of made-up stories and that's okay. You know, am I the asshole? A great subreddit?

1:45:04 - Leo Laporte
a lot of stuff made up a lot of that.

1:45:05 - Paris Martineau
There's also a a sub subreddit or, I guess, a, you know, a forked subreddit called AMAH, which I guess is like am I the asshole? But with slightly less stringent postage. Am I a a-hole?

Yeah, not the a-hole, something I've noticed recently. I mean because there's often really great posts on there, but they're usually text posts. Sometimes I will see the most popular ones coming up and they have like a little icon up there and I click through it. It's because they have a link in one of their, like a hyperlink in one of their words, and every single time it links to some dumb gen AI image generating site. And I'm realizing all of these are like astroturfing posts made up by this stupid fourth tier AI company to, I guess, boost their page view rankings, and it pisses me off.

1:45:54 - Speaker 4
We can't, you know I'm all right with just regular people.

1:45:58 - Paris Martineau
I'm all right with regular people lying on the internet for karma. That's fine.

1:46:02 - Leo Laporte
But companies yeah, but a moderator to stop that. So what? To give us a an example of one of your weirdo subreddits.

1:46:10 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, I want to hear this. Thank you. Oh, that's a great question. More than one, please.

1:46:15 - Leo Laporte
I've recently joined slash r slash cleaning because I like to read tales of cleaning and there are some wild ones in there, so that's kind of fun. You know what's cool is? Petaluma has a subreddit. Santa Rosa, which is just up to the north, has a subreddit. There are geographic subreddits. There's a Bay Area subreddit, which is kind of cool because you read about stuff going on.

1:46:39 - Paris Martineau
I love the Bay Area subreddit. People are so mad in that subreddit.

1:46:42 - Leo Laporte
Oh, they're mad about everything. I know it's hysterical. I just joined the health insurance subreddit because I'm trying to figure out what health insurance I should get. I'm in open enrollment right now.

1:46:52 - Paris Martineau
Okay here's one 11 foot 8. It's a subreddit about when it's the number 11, then the word foot and then the number 8.

1:47:02 - Leo Laporte
There are 108,000 members of this.

1:47:06 - Paris Martineau
Yes, it's a really good subreddit. It's about when trucks go under bridges, that they're. It's pretty fun I love it.

1:47:16 - Leo Laporte
Here's the eight foot bridge in needles, california. Here's a uh, a guy on a pickup truck. He's got a trailer. It says he didn't even stop. Oh, not good, nope, got stuck, got stuck, he's going to get stuck. Oh, that's yeah.

1:47:33 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, I guess a little bit, Is there a bollard subreddit Somebody?

1:47:37 - Leo Laporte
made a pilgrimage to the 12-foot-4-inch sign. Okay, okay, that's funny, 11-foot-8. Okay, number 11 and number 8.

1:47:49 - Paris Martineau
Okay, okay, that's funny 11 foot 8. Okay, number 11 and number 8.

1:47:56 - Leo Laporte
Kromch, which is like oh, this is a different subreddit than what I was thinking of.

1:47:59 - Paris Martineau
Kronchers, I'm looking for Kromch. Well, what I said was Kromch, which is like crunch, but with an M in there instead of an. N. I'm looking for a one that's about trees. That's a cat subreddit. This is part of the problem when you have a lot of subreddits.

1:48:11 - Leo Laporte
You know it's amazing, I didn't realize. Here's one called Crumshmumsh that's got 28,000 members. Crumshmumsh, I don't even. It's crazy.

1:48:21 - Paris Martineau
Who's to say yeah.

1:48:22 - Leo Laporte
Who's to say Banana enthusiasts?

1:48:26 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know, I don't know. Well, the problem is banana variety has gone down. I mentioned this before with your apple story. It's a real problem we're stuck with one kind of banana it is.

1:48:35 - Leo Laporte
We're in a monoculture. Yes, I know it's a huge problem. Bananas may be over.

1:48:38 - Paris Martineau
Okay, here's a good pairing of subreddits Trees eating things paired with trees sucking on things, both of which are when trees grow around or suck on things, yeah. Yeah.

1:48:51 - Leo Laporte
Oh, this is good. Steve Gibson would love this because that's from Mildly Interesting, which is also a great subreddit One of the wildest tree-eating things I've ever come around.

1:49:04 - Jeff Jarvis
What is it?

1:49:05 - Leo Laporte
I don't know what's in there. Something Looks like a propeller or something. I don't know what's in there. Something. Looks like a propeller or something, I don't know. Anyway, we don't have to go too far down this rabbit hole, but that's good. That's good. Trees eating things and trees sucking things. They're probably competing subreddits.

1:49:25 - Paris Martineau
They are. Well, it's a little different. Oh is it you know there's some, I believe, difference in this.

1:49:33 - Leo Laporte
Here's a tree finding a water supply to suck on. Oh my God, the water from the far out it's coming out the tree. I don't.

1:49:46 - Paris Martineau
I feel like trees sucking on things is kind of where a tree is consuming a standalone free-floating object. Meanwhile trees eating things is a tree versus a stationary grounded object.

1:49:58 - Leo Laporte
But that's just my take. Here's a tree growing into and through a street. Sign that's pretty cool. That's not very exciting. That's really exciting. That's better, that's good, look at that. It came out the top. Wow, that's a nature, oh, finds a way, isn't that? Uh, isn't that the story? Okay, why? Some of these are nsfw. I don't know, I'm not sure uh well, yeah, maybe maybe ai really what's bringing a profit?

1:50:27 - Paris Martineau
but yeah, selling, they're selling and it's really what's bringing the profit?

1:50:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, selling there and it's really selling. What's funny about this and it kind of bugs me. It's the same thing with X. They're selling content that people put on Reddit Our stuff, right. It's like if a store had a bulletin board on it and it was able to sell everything that was stuck to the bulletin board.

1:50:49 - Paris Martineau
It's like that's not yours, that's ours so I did during the course of this show uh, download the update and then got approved to join the apple intelligence thing and just to see, and I got my first summary of a group chat and said expressing displeasure with andy posts on Facebook, and I was like what is that? And it turns out one of my friends is saying my father says so much that he doesn't engage on politics and Facebook anymore, and then it's just a video of all of his Facebook posts that are extremely political.

1:51:22 - Leo Laporte
So I guess that's a good summary. That's a good summary. I think it's good. You're going to love this. So this is your work phone. Do you have a non-work phone?

1:51:36 - Paris Martineau
No, this is my normal phone.

1:51:38 - Leo Laporte
I thought you said you were worried because it was your work phone. Oh, I get what you're saying.

1:51:42 - Paris Martineau
I have two SIM cards on my phone.

1:51:44 - Leo Laporte
There are sources in there, one for work stuff, one for non-work stuff I get it.

1:51:48 - Paris Martineau
I mean the actual source communication I do is on Signal, so I'm not super worried about that.

1:51:56 - Leo Laporte
Linus Torvalds, a creator of Linux, slams AI as 90% marketing, 10% reality. That's about right. Yeah, that's about right, jeff, your story.

1:52:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Let's about right, jeff, your story. Oh, let's see here. Well, we could do. Mcdonald's finally finds an unlikely savior to finally fix the McFlurry machines.

1:52:23 - Leo Laporte
The saga of the McFlurry is quite fascinating it is why does it always need so much fixing? It's not so much that it well well it's probably not super reliable breaks yeah but the peep, this limited number of people until now, could fix it.

Um, there were actually was a website which I think we showed on uh, this show, probably before paris's time that tracks non-working mcflurry machines. What's interesting is when we first showed this, there were a lot of red dots. Way back in the day, there are a lot more green dots than before. I think we're getting improvement and, I think, progress. This is very clear why this is?

1:53:07 - Speaker 4
Melpitas is not happy, but yeah, well there's one broken one in Melpitas, Also because it's a dumb name for a town, but they're just not happy there.

1:53:16 - Leo Laporte
Is that an old Bay Area joke? I don't know, it's a dumb name for a town. I like it. So what happened is that these McFlurry machines couldn't be fixed by anybody except the company that made them Taylor.

1:53:31 - Paris Martineau
Taylor Commercial Food Service.

1:53:33 - Leo Laporte
And they were slow to fix it and blah, blah, blah. So the copyright we're talking about the copyright librarian. She's made another ruling that could make it easier for them to keep the McFlurry machines working At the core of the issues. This is from the Wall Street Journal. Machines working at the core of the issues this is from the wall street journal is the software in the machines. Uh, when one encounters a problem, it's difficult or impossible to figure out what's gone wrong, leaving franchise owners dependent on technicians from taylor, the manufacturer. Owners of mcdonald's outlets say the machines are prone to breaking. There've been complaints about long time long wait times for Taylor technicians. Even President Trump, known for his love of fast food, tweeted this weekend when I'm president, the McDonald's ice cream machines will work great again.

A Taylor spokesperson said customers should use a company-certified technician while their machines are under warranty which typically ranges from one to five years, and that it makes parts available for purchase for those who want to do their own repairs, but only their parts right. Our good friends at iFixit, the right to repair folks and public knowledge petitioned the Copyright Office for an exception that would allow owners of commercial and industrial equipment to do repairs rather than having to wait for a technician from the manufacturer. The Justice Department's Antitrust Division and the Federal Trade Commission both supported the petition.

1:55:03 - Jeff Jarvis
That's a lot of heavy hitters coming in here.

1:55:06 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, when it comes to McFlurries, we're not fooling around you, don't?

1:55:09 - Speaker 4
want to mess around, yeah when it comes to McFlurries, we're not fooling around.

1:55:18 - Leo Laporte
Copyright office has granted a narrow exemption for commercial food equipment in response to petition as of Monday. Now with the exemption you can get around that digital lock with something other than Taylor's sanctioned key. One of the reasons this came up is there was a company that came along and said we can fix them and we have a device that will fix it, and Taylor stopped them. So this company, Kitech or Kitch, I guess it is K-Y-T-C-H had offered these devices that alerted restaurant owners about breakdowns, saying they could prevent damage. Um had offered these devices that alerted restaurant owners about breakdowns, saying they could prevent damage if they found out soon enough. Mcdonald's warned franchisees off using the device, saying they weren't sanctioned and could pose a safety hazard, which kitsch denied. Kitsch sued both taylor's and mcdonald's. Lawsuits are in settlement discussions but of course the company uh is around but ceased operations after ceased operations, after McDonald's said don't use them. Well, I don't know if this copyright office's ruling makes Kitsch viable, but I hope it does and I wish you luck with your McFlurry.

1:56:20 - Paris Martineau
I'm shocked that this was a tech story after all. That's my fault, that's my fault again, it's moral panic. Just press the wrong button.

1:56:34 - Leo Laporte
That's my fault. It's moral panic. Wait, just press the wrong button. That's my fault. An errant moral panic. Um, that's on the loose. Moral panic on the loose. Yeah, let's. Uh, I gotta find. I wonder how I enter in your address to find out if the mcflurry near you is working. I guess I could scroll the map is the way I do it here. Let's see, we're traveling across the country. Here we are looking for a Brooklyn McFlurry machine. There's a lot of red dots in New York.

1:56:59 - Paris Martineau
Look here, prospect Park, so it's also Wendy's machines.

1:57:04 - Leo Laporte
Well, for some reason, when I zoom in, I see Wendy.

1:57:07 - Jeff Jarvis
So Wendy's are working. What about the McDonald's?

1:57:10 - Benito Gonzalez
Are those for Frosty's? Is that for Frosty's? Maybe this site?

1:57:13 - Leo Laporte
now does Frosty's and it says McDonald's. I don't know, maybe you know what. Wendy might have been smart and gone in there and bought a big ad saying well, if you can't get your. Mcflurry, go next door and get a Frosty.

1:57:28 - Paris Martineau
All right, scroll down, go a bit south.

1:57:30 - Leo Laporte
Okay, I don't know Brooklyn that well, there's Brooklyn.

1:57:32 - Paris Martineau
This is where we want to be. Yeah, there's some.

1:57:35 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you're in good shape.

1:57:36 - Jeff Jarvis
Mostly green dots, there's a few. What's the red one? Up a little bit more.

1:57:40 - Leo Laporte
Does it tell you that's on Fort Hamilton Parkway, parkside Avenue. The machine is broken. It was checked 55 minutes ago. And on utica avenue machine is broken. But you could go run on over to coney island avenue, get a hot dog working mcflurry machine so the machines have like an api? Yeah, yeah, they ping the machines. No, he's got a way of doing it. What is it? Oh, mcdonald's allows you to order mFlurries online. There's some funky way he did this.

1:58:13 - Jeff Jarvis
He's paying 3,000 McDonald's constantly.

1:58:17 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, he has a way to. And then yeah, I think this is hysterical Wendy's bought a big ad for the Frosties.

1:58:25 - Paris Martineau
That is very funny.

1:58:27 - Leo Laporte
That's smart. Wendy's is good in this. They have the really excellent social media. So, yeah, I think he would order it online and then cancel it. But in in the process of ordering it, you'd get a message saying we can't make a mcflurry today, and that. So yeah, he was pinging all the mcdonald's how do you guys feel about mcflurries?

1:58:47 - Paris Martineau
I always want them to be more milkshake like than they are, are I?

1:58:49 - Leo Laporte
never had one. What Doesn't it come with a weird spoon.

1:58:53 - Paris Martineau
You actually have to fix that. You can't go through your life without having a single McFlurry. Why, I don't know. It just feels un-American.

1:59:05 - Leo Laporte
Well, I'm just glad that your McFlurries are safe. Once again, here's a sad story Foursquare. Farewell to Foursquare. Do you remember Foursquare? It was very big. It made its debut at South by Southwest. Everybody was crazy about it. You were the mayor of San Francisco.

1:59:26 - Jeff Jarvis
I was the mayor of many, many places.

1:59:28 - Leo Laporte
Yes, because if you checked in a number of times you'd become the mayor. And then I used to get in fights with Lisa over who's the mayor of the brick house. Yes, and she would check in. And I would check in Dennis Crowley, who created Foursquare. Great guy, he was a great guy, wonderful. Yeah, they're going to sunset the four square app city guide app later this year. They did have a replacement check-in app called swarm. See, that was actually very smart because they made an app where you would check in. You become the mayor. Your friends could see where you were. I remember I was eating at a restaurant in Petaluma and Robert Scoble showed up. I said Robert. I said how did you find me, dude Haunted? He said four square man, uh, uh. So it was in a different time when we didn't, we weren't so privacy concerned, we didn't mind telling the world.

2:00:21 - Jeff Jarvis
hey that was the cool thing about it. That was the original twitter. Was you know? My update? What's happening with me?

2:00:26 - Benito Gonzalez
that's all that was the opposite of privacy concern. Everybody wanted to tell everybody where they were and what they were doing.

2:00:31 - Leo Laporte
And what they were eating. So Foursquare kind of, there were a bunch of clones and they kind of stumbled but it turned out they pivoted. They realized, oh, all this location information is really useful, so they started selling it.

2:00:46 - Paris Martineau
And they became, like one of the biggest purveyors of location data oh yes, oh yes.

2:00:52 - Jeff Jarvis
Things like how busy they powered they powered uber.

2:00:55 - Paris Martineau
You know other different apps.

2:00:56 - Leo Laporte
They were behind all of it then they created an app called swarm because they wanted to get back in the check-in business. Um, in 2014, they split into two different properties. But now, december 15th, foursquare is going to be no more. It's kind of sad it is. It's the end of an era, an era where we weren't so concerned about our privacy. We didn't mind telling everybody where we were.

In a post on Threads, dennis wrote Dens is his handle. I have a really good blog post somewhere in me about the danger of falling in love with the companies you build and the products you create, but it's not the right time to write it. The neglect of Foursquare's apps story has been a drumbeat in my personal online experience for like five years now, and I let it affect me more than I should. Aka, dude, dude, just get over it. Easier said than done. Oh, dens, we love you. Come on the show, tell us what your next thing is going to be. Uh, force grass. Over 100 million in revenue jesus, yeah, I don't know if that was in one year or overall. Got to be one year.

2:02:12 - Paris Martineau
There's no way that's overall. It's not where that's cumulative.

2:02:16 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's the question.

2:02:21 - Paris Martineau
I mean you don't shut down something that's making a hundred million a year. I mean, I'm sure they're shutting down the app consumer app, Foursquare. They're not shutting down Foursquare, the location.

2:02:27 - Jeff Jarvis
No, no, there's just that, yeah, yeah. It's just the consumer app.

2:02:30 - Leo Laporte
The company is going to continue. Oh yeah, We'll now be, on the check-in portion of this experience.

2:02:36 - Paris Martineau
I mean I assume it's also on the location data portion, which has been their main business for a while.

2:02:42 - Leo Laporte
Remember Goala, because then a few years later at South Byte, that was the next app that people used. I really liked Koala too. I used all of those Anyway.

2:02:54 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, foursquare is a location platform and sells stuff to other app makers.

2:03:01 - Leo Laporte
Right, Right Crowley is no longer involved in Foursquare in a full-time capacity, according to Sarah Perez at TechCrunch, but still remains co-chair of the company's board and has been working on something new since August.

2:03:14 - Jeff Jarvis
So you remember he started Dodgeball, originally Dodgeball was the first I interviewed him for. Public Parts my earlier book.

2:03:22 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I do remember that Dan come on the show and then he got bought.

2:03:25 - Jeff Jarvis
He got bought by Google, right, he spent two years there frustrated as hell. Yeah, they didn't do anything with it. Left Google killed Dodgeball anyway, and so they started a new more sophisticated service, which was Foursquare.

2:03:40 - Leo Laporte
Well, denz, I've always had a lot of respect for you. Loved Foursquare, loved Swarm, come on the show he told me.

2:03:48 - Jeff Jarvis
I happen to be a very social person who's part of a very social crew. Sounds like paris, and I live in a very social city. We're finding that when you opt in to share your location no matter if it's a library or bar, classroom or airport it tends to lead to things that facilitate serendipity. Well, those are nice days, wasn't that nice you?

2:04:08 - Leo Laporte
know really, this is what you've been preaching all along, jeff is that we shouldn't be so concerned or so worried. We should just take advantage of the internet and use it as it was intended as a way to connect I disagree but I was. I used to be more open until robert scoble showed up have you ever met robert scoble there?

2:04:30 - Jeff Jarvis
uh, paris. Have you heard of robert scoble?

2:04:32 - Paris Martineau
I'm googling oh, he's quite the character oh old friend he was the uh oh, google glass guy yeah yeah, google glass guy shower, shower naked.

2:04:43 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, okay, glass shower, google glass guy.

2:04:45 - Paris Martineau
I Shower Google Glass guy, I know.

2:04:47 - Jeff Jarvis
Scobel, who was called out and shamed. By which Google founder was it at? Io Really Did Larry Page? We were there together. When he said Scobel got up to ask a question and I think it was oh, I do remember this. Yeah, was it Sergey? Who was it? It was Larry. It was Larry. Yeah, larry said just send them, robert. You really shouldn't do that.

2:05:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, robert's an old friend. He was the sysop of my chat for many years back in the 90s. He's now kind of a VR guy AR VR guy.

2:05:26 - Jeff Jarvis
He's whatever's hot this minute. Yeah, guy ar vr. Guy, he's whatever's hot this minute. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure he was.

2:05:30 - Paris Martineau
His most recent blog post is announcement. And why the tesla tesla humanoid robot matters yeah, that's that's very him.

2:05:37 - Leo Laporte
He's very enthusiastic. That's his. That's his calling card. He's thrilled by everything. Craig, newmark, play the song one more time. Hello craig. One more time. Hello craig. Last week about how the newmark philanthropies funded pass keys. They have put another five million dollars into the reports.

2:06:01 - Jeff Jarvis
There's no, they there, it's he there's not.

2:06:04 - Leo Laporte
When it says philanthropies, it's just him, it's him, oh, it's his, it's his. Generosity is amazing. The work will. So they're going to uh, he's giving them five million dollars. I'm sure our friend stacy higginbotham is part of this. That's what I was wondering. Yep, yeah, that, uh, that will accelerate cr's vision of a digital marketplace where safety, cyber security and transparency are standard across products and services. You know what? That's Stacey all over it. That's Stacey. That's got Stacey written all over it. The work will include the development of tools for consumers to stay secure from cyber attacks.

2:06:38 - Jeff Jarvis
Which is very important to Craig. We're not adequately protected, Prepared. Yeah.

2:06:43 - Leo Laporte
Yep Consumer Reports will conduct new investigations of cyber harms, artificial intelligence systems and privacy concerns, and will expand its evaluations of online marketplaces and fintech services. You know our good friend Nicholas DeLeon, who is the technology editor for Consumer Reports, probably will have something to say about this Sunday. He's going to be on Twitter.

2:07:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, perfect timing.

2:07:06 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I will make sure to ask him.

2:07:07 - Jeff Jarvis
Craig used to be on the board of Consumer Reports, so he quite admires the organization.

2:07:12 - Leo Laporte
They're the good guys.

2:07:13 - Jeff Jarvis
They really are Truly.

2:07:15 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

2:07:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Thank you, Craig.

2:07:19 - Leo Laporte
An update on the Matt Mullenweg saga.

2:07:24 - Jeff Jarvis
I just put this in, it's so confusing.

2:07:26 - Leo Laporte
He says a fork would be fantastic. Fork away. He says this is TechCrunch Disrupt today. He's not worried about the recent legal drama between his company, automatic, and WordPress host, wp Engine. In fact, he says if there's a fork as a result I mean we've had WordPress forks before three or four times. He said that's one of the beautiful things about open source there can be a fork. So you know, in effect, wp Engine already had forked the software because the version they run is different, very, very different, he said from WordPress core. Today, if WordPress was then officially forked as a result of this growing discontent with his direction of the community and the legal battle over the use of the WordPress trademark, mullenweg suggested that's the better path. I think that would be fantastic actually, so people can have alternative governance or an alternative approach.

2:08:21 - Jeff Jarvis
This is why I love Mac.

2:08:22 - Leo Laporte
I think Matt's really open to all of this, right, yeah, yeah.

2:08:26 - Paris Martineau
The tech crunch, people had to be counting their lucky stars to have had him on the slate for disrupt right as all this is going down though.

2:08:33 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, no kidding. Wordpress core software has seen 40 million downloads in the last months months, so it's doing just fine. Uh, I ran a wordpress blog for a long time. Wordpresscom automatic was a sponsor for a long time. We've had Matt on the show. Yeah, what else should we say? Jan LaCoon, one of the AI godfathers, works at Meta right now. He says Elon Musk, objectively, you are the biggest threat to democracy in America today. I like that.

2:09:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Wow, I like that Jeez. He's blunt.

2:09:16 - Leo Laporte
Wow. This partly because, of course, elon has been bribing voters to register in Pennsylvania. I saw Elon's X post on X, the everything platform, Did I?

2:09:29 - Jeff Jarvis
just put in another story on that.

2:09:32 - Leo Laporte
Celebrating the fact that Republican registrations in Pennsylvania were up several times more than Democratic registrations, maybe because you offered a million dollars to people who registered and then signed the petition. He's in a little trouble with the Pennsylvania Attorney General over that, although interestingly, the DOJ declined to prosecute the line above.

2:09:57 - Jeff Jarvis
I just put the story in, for Wired Workers said they were tricked and threatened as part of Elon Musk's get-out-the-vote effort. They were driven around in U-Hauls with no seats. They were told that unless they got their quotas, they would end up having to pay for their own hotels.

2:10:18 - Leo Laporte
He is not the best manager ever, is he no, and he has been promised a seat in the government to make the federal government run better.

2:10:29 - Jeff Jarvis
He's going to eliminate $2 trillion worth of expenses.

2:10:33 - Leo Laporte
That's good. And then, of course, RFK Jr will become our head of the CDC. That should work really well. He's the guy who will.

2:10:42 - Paris Martineau
He's going to fire everyone who isn't hardcore Yep, yep by email.

2:10:50 - Leo Laporte
By the way, truth Social, briefly, was worth more than X. Briefly because I say because it's now down again Trading in Trump media and technology group stock was suspended several times due to volatility ahead of the election. Due to volatility ahead of the election. I think today it's gone down considerably, but it's just one of those things that's up and down. I don't know what the latest is, but, briefly, shares in TMTG rose 8.8% yesterday, giving it a market valuation of $10.3 billion. That's at the close yesterday, which is more than the estimated $9.4 billion valuation of X, the everything platform.

2:11:41 - Jeff Jarvis
So above that we have a good Mike Masnick.

2:11:45 - Leo Laporte
Mike on Elon Musk events.

2:11:48 - Jeff Jarvis
So that's the funny thing. So he's reporting from the board of Blue Sky and he says that whenever they call it EME, elon Musk events. Whenever he chooses to do something reckless, ban popular users, launch a poorly planned fight with a Brazilian judge, take away block feature. It seems to drive floods of traffic to Blue Sky so uh, half a million.

2:12:17 - Leo Laporte
The last I saw uh after elon uh turned off blocking on x, the everything platform um, has it gone into effect yet? You know who knows, how would you know I?

2:12:24 - Jeff Jarvis
can't tell, because how would you know? I don't know who's.

2:12:26 - Paris Martineau
I can tell hold on trying to read me. How would you know I? Don't know who's trying to read me.

2:12:29 - Jeff Jarvis
How would you know?

2:12:32 - Leo Laporte
The founder of TikTok is now China's richest man.

2:12:36 - Paris Martineau
No, they have not turned it on. There's one person who has me blocked that I cannot see their tweets.

2:12:41 - Leo Laporte
So can't see their stuff. Oh okay, that's a good way to see it.

2:12:43 - Jeff Jarvis
I got a lot.

2:12:43 - Leo Laporte
Who would block you? Is it the hot dog hater?

2:12:47 - Paris Martineau
One could say that Mrs. Nathan Potentially.

2:12:55 - Leo Laporte
Zhang Yiming is now worth get this. The guy who founded TikTok is now worth $49.3 billion. He stepped down from his role in charge of the company in 2021, but still owns about 20% of TikTok. Yikes, how much? 20 billion? How much is he worth? Yeah 49.3 billion.

2:13:20 - Jeff Jarvis
How does that compare with Elon?

2:13:23 - Leo Laporte
I think Elon's close to a trillion isn't he? What is he? I don't know. It changes day to day depending on the tesla stock.

2:13:31 - Paris Martineau
Okay, but did we see the uh? Elon musk 176 compound.

2:13:38 - Leo Laporte
Oh yes, he's building a place for the kids and I think that's wonderful. He's a family man, he's playing, building a compound for the kids and it's their mothers. Is it in Waco? It's in Austin.

2:13:53 - Paris Martineau
Three mansions, three mothers, eleven children and one secretive multi-billionaire father who obsesses about declining birth rates when he isn't overseeing one of his six companies, writes the New York Times. It's an unconventional family situation, and one that Mr Musk seems to want to make even bigger. A proponent of in vitro fertilization, musk believes strongly in increasing the world's population. He has even offered his own sperm to friends and acquaintances including the four of them.

2:14:21 - Leo Laporte
I have some sperm here, including the independent.

2:14:23 - Jeff Jarvis
VP candidate Nicole Shanahan according to people familiar with his offer. Well, because they dated. That's what broke up her marriage to Sergei.

2:14:33 - Paris Martineau
She turned him down.

2:14:35 - Leo Laporte
She said he didn't want his sperm.

2:14:37 - Paris Martineau
She said no sperm for me.

2:14:38 - Leo Laporte
How do you offer hey, would you like some sperm? So that's an interesting story because of course, she was the VP pick of RFK Jr, but now that his candidate, Because she had all of the Google money she had money you know, but I could still vote for him, by the way you ask how does he make these offers?

2:14:56 - Paris Martineau
here's a detail from the story. Um, at a dinner party held at the home of a well-known silicon valley executive last year, mr musk offered to provide his sperm to a married couple he had met socially only a handful of times, according to two people who were present for the interaction. The couple had mentioned at dinner that they were having trouble conceiving a child.

2:15:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Musk told them.

2:15:17 - Paris Martineau
Musk told them, he was happy to assist and boasted about his many children I'd like to give you some of my sperm. I could make a sample right now. I could give you some now. I'll just be right back.

2:15:31 - Leo Laporte
You got any glass, a jar, something I could put it in. Oh my God, A Ziploc bag could work.

2:15:40 - Jeff Jarvis
That could be a show title, so one of the mothers.

2:15:42 - Paris Martineau
Ziploc bag could work.

2:15:45 - Leo Laporte
One of the mothers is the executive at Neuralink, siobhan Zillis, elon's brain technology startup. She's moved into one of the houses with her children Grimes no, because they're in a big battle over custody, so no. The third mother is Mr Musk's first wife. Oh, this will go well, justine, he has five kids. Go well, justine, he has five kids. Uh, there is room in the austin compound if they were to visit, although he is estranged from at least one of these kids, the one who's trans right, yeah, yeah, he said that she's dead, basically to me, she's dead.

2:16:21 - Paris Martineau
To me, there is also my firm there is also a uh, a big conflict between Zillis, the Musk executive, who he's had children with, and Grimes, because of a name issue. Musk took a name that he and Grimes had chosen for their daughter, valkyrie, and gave it to one of Mrs Zillis' twins. According to two people familiar with the naming, grimes was so offended that she wrote a song about the episode, which she posted to twitter. A girl cursed with my daughter's name, grimes, wrote in a now deleted tweet will now carry her mother's shame.

In the end, miss zillis changed her daughter's name and while grime and grimes chose a different name for their child.

2:17:07 - Jeff Jarvis
What a freak weird, so freak yeah well it so.

2:17:11 - Leo Laporte
On the one hand it's just comedic and weird and creepy, but on the other hand it's just power it's eugenics, it is racist eugenics, he says I'm not saying like only smart people should have kids. I'm just saying smart people should have kids as well. I know I notice a lot of really smart women have zero or one kid. You're like, wow, that's probably not good.

2:17:35 - Paris Martineau
This is a quote from his biography published in 2015. It's also I mean, this goes without saying given everything we know about him, but he, he's not the one having to do any of the work to raise these kids.

2:17:45 - Leo Laporte
It's the women who gave him a house, a compound. I gave you. I gave you my sperm. Isn't that enough? I want the Ziploc bag back, though, if you don't mind, views his views according to the time they're reusable, don't you know?

You know it's all the same sperm. I'm so sorry If your children are listening to this. His views seem to echo those of his father, errol Musk, who is 78, has seven children with three women. You breed horses, errol said in an interview in September. People are the same If you have a good father and a good mother, you'll have exceptional children If you have no children.

2:18:28 - Paris Martineau
I feel very sorry for you. Didn't he famously have a very contentious relationship with Elon oh yeah, which explains some.

2:18:43 - Leo Laporte
Mr Musk's first child was named Nevada.

2:18:47 - Paris Martineau
That's normal compared to everything else, I do think that rich people should have to like apply to be able to name their kids anything after states after anything. I mean, this is the same guy who named his kid x ai something, something, right it got a little more normal kids using ivf before Five kids using IVF before they divorced in 2008.

2:19:08 - Leo Laporte
The twins, griffin and Vivian, were now 20, followed by the triplets Saxon, damien and Kai, now in their late teens. He likes IVF because you know triplets, and then the names got a little weirder. He twice married and divorced the actress Tallulah Riley Tallulah.

2:19:30 - Paris Martineau
Riley is the one who he had, which I think is one of the craziest profiles I've ever seen of a man. Maybe it's a Rolling Stone profile where this is before Elon Musk had very publicly gone a little wacky. The author was there to interview him about something relating to space exo tesla and elon musk spent the entire couple days he was with this journalist just complaining about how lovesick he was because he divorced his wife.

2:19:57 - Leo Laporte
It's a phenomenal read uh, he and grimes had a kid in 2020. They named x a, e, a, x, I, I or x for short, the everything everything platform the everything kid. Uh, then he had more children with grimes and with mrs, ms zillis, um, and then, uh, it just goes on and on, yeah, goes on and on. It's unbelievable. Thank you to the New York Times for giving us the inside tea. Spilling the tea, is that how the kids say it.

2:20:33 - Paris Martineau
That is Spilling the sperm. Nope, that's not how they say it at all we have to end the podcast. Now it's over, it's over Good night. Good night everybody hill your podcast too far the ziploc bag has been emptied and we're all devastated of course it's all.

2:20:54 - Leo Laporte
This is all his philosophy a that we're the planet's being depopulated, which there's no evidence of, and b that and this is the real thing smart people, people, aren't having kids. The poor dumb people are having kids.

2:21:10 - Jeff Jarvis
It's Tascreal, pure eugenics. Hey, tascreal drink. He just means poor people really.

2:21:16 - Leo Laporte
Poor people? Well, he doesn't even just mean poor people. There's a little, let's not forget where he came from. Racism in there as well, they're not our kind, if you know what I mean.

2:21:28 - Paris Martineau
not our, not our people the classic opinion to go with that hat you've got on, you know you know, this is a panama hat which is made in ecuador, as all true panama hats are wow as confused it is dashed on you I like it, it's, it's nice.

2:21:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, you know this is a Paris moment here. You both have hats on People who appear on, say, msnbc, from certain magazines, who are constantly wearing ironic hats.

2:21:56 - Paris Martineau
I have no patience for an ironic hat Paris.

2:22:04 - Leo Laporte
I make a lot of ironic hats. You have that question.

2:22:07 - Paris Martineau
Jeff, I make a lot of ironic hats here. You know I'm well known for making silly hats.

2:22:13 - Jeff Jarvis
Silly hats is different.

2:22:15 - Paris Martineau
I mean what?

2:22:16 - Leo Laporte
would you consider an?

2:22:17 - Paris Martineau
ironic hat.

2:22:19 - Leo Laporte
This is an ironic hat right here. If I wore this hat on AMC, nbc would they accept me. I don't know if it's ironic or it's warm.

2:22:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Let's look it up here, see if there's a definition.

2:22:31 - Leo Laporte
No, it's those little Homburgs, those little hipster Homburgs. What do you?

2:22:35 - Jeff Jarvis
call them Pog pie Pork pie hats Pig pie.

2:22:38 - Leo Laporte
Okay, no, those are ironic.

2:22:39 - Paris Martineau
Those are just bad fashion choices.

2:22:41 - Leo Laporte
I had one.

2:22:53 - Paris Martineau
I bought one. I've got an ironic thing here brian cranston is the hat brian cranston wore in breaking bad and I had one. Oh hey, if you're my friend who's in the ski well team and you're watching, you aren't? You aren't seeing this. I, uh, she's the first member of our ski ball team got pregnant. We've all decided to both get her normal baby registry gifts and, irony, poisoned ones, and the one that we're getting is, uh, this.

2:23:06 - Leo Laporte
I'm, legally speaking, the editor-in-chief of the New Yorker she works for the New Yorker.

2:23:12 - Paris Martineau
That's an ironic baby one.

2:23:13 - Leo Laporte
You should get her a t-shirt which says Valkyrie, maybe Valkyrie 3.

2:23:18 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, that could be good, Valkyrie the third. I could tell her it's an Elon Musk reference.

2:23:23 - Leo Laporte
Is a pith helmet, ironic.

2:23:29 - Jeff Jarvis
I think a cowboy hat on someone who's not southern is ironic. Oh so like elon musk right? Who wears it backwards?

2:23:37 - Leo Laporte
he wears his cowboy hat backwards yeah, that was the one, yeah yeah, um, we have a name for it. It's called all hat no cattle or, in paris's case, small hat no, no cattle it's true let's take a break because this is really going way down fast.

Our halloween edition. That's why we're wearing the hats. Yeah sure, our show today, brought to you by CacheFly. I'm going to be on matt levine's podcast, the anycast uh next. Well, in january. So I guess I have to say next year, just a couple of months. It's gonna be fun. I look forward to it. I love matt. He saved our lives. He saved twit about, oh, I don't know. 20 years ago we were trying to turns out. When you have a successful podcast, there's a lot of bandwidth involved, and we were trying to do it on a website that didn't work. And then we tried BitTorrent. For a while, aol Radio was giving us the bandwidth. You remember those days on Twitter, bandwidth provided by AOL Radio. Well, it wasn't too long before CacheFly, matt Levine came along and said hey, I can help.

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You get the vip treatment. Your dedicated account manager is with you from day one, ensuring a smooth implementation and reliable 24 7 support when you need it. The good news is you probably will never need it. They're so good. We've I can't think of when we've had a problem with them. Uh, in fact, that's good, because that means if we don't have a problem with them, you don't have a problem getting our content. That's what's so important to us. Learn how you can get your first month free at CacheFly.com. Slash twit. That's, as I've said many, many times over the last 20 years. That's C-A-C-H-E-F-L-Y. Dot com slash twit. Thank you, CacheFly and Matt. I'm looking forward to being on your show in January. That's going to be a lot of fun. I think this would be a good time to get our picks of the week in here Starting, if you want, unless you've got a story that you want to really hit.

2:27:43 - Jeff Jarvis
I think we got the good story. I kind of enjoyed how you so I put the kind of other stories at the bottom of what I throw into the rundown and Leo just went bottom up. It was kind of fun, it was good, that's how I like doing it.

2:27:53 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I like to start at the bottom.

2:27:55 - Jeff Jarvis
None of the serious AI stuff.

2:27:56 - Leo Laporte
No, hell with that stuff Boring. What is your?

2:28:13 - Paris Martineau
pick of the week is the age of cage a novel, ain't not a novel? A kind of non-fiction book about four decades of hollywood, told through one singular career by keith phipps. Uh, I'm part of the way through, as Nick Vember is soon to be upon us, and it's a lovely read about a lovely guy, and I highly recommend it.

2:28:35 - Leo Laporte
Is it all Nick, all the time, or are there other people?

2:28:39 - Paris Martineau
I mean there are other people in it, but it's mostly about Nick Cage and his career and how that also tracks with kind of the development of hollywood and the last couple of decades of cinema generally um, he's also a coppola, so it's about the coppola in some ways. You know right I uh have been banking a couple nick cage films because I already know that I'm not going to be able to uh watch nick cage there's only.

2:29:05 - Leo Laporte
There's only 31 days in November.

2:29:08 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, there's only 31 days, I'm not going to be able to do all of them, but I've been trying to bank some so that I can definitely get 31 in, even if I don't want to watch a movie after finishing this podcast, and I recently watched Matchstick Men, fantastic movie.

2:29:22 - Leo Laporte
I couldn't finish it. It bugged me.

2:29:25 - Paris Martineau
Oh, you got to finish it because the ending is great. Don't read anything into that. Don't look up anything about the movie. I won't Just finish it and go back to it.

2:29:35 - Leo Laporte
It's great, there was something about it. It just bugged me. But okay, I mean, a lot of his films make you itchy right.

2:29:47 - Paris Martineau
No, I would say Matchstick Men isn't really one of the like you know, plot of it, the you get this in like the first 30 minutes is nick cage is a con artist. Um, he's got crippling ocd compulsions. He starts seeing a therapist and then reconnects with uh, he realizes that he has a 14 year old-old daughter that he never knew about.

2:30:07 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and that's when I stopped watching.

2:30:12 - Paris Martineau
Leo, you've got to watch it the.

2:30:12 - Leo Laporte
OCD was like I was just okay, I will, I'll watch it, I will, I'll finish it. Yeah, thank you. And the Age of Cage from Macmillan, the Age of Cage.

2:30:24 - Paris Martineau
Yay Look at this cover. It's cute.

2:30:27 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you read paper dead tree books. I do. Do you have an e-reader of any kind, of any sort?

2:30:35 - Paris Martineau
I have a Kindle somewhere. I don't really know where it is. I prefer to read the old way.

2:30:42 - Leo Laporte
Do you have a favorite chair? You'll sit in and read.

2:30:46 - Paris Martineau
I like sitting on my couch and reading.

2:30:49 - Leo Laporte
Ideally or in a park or in a bar or something.

2:30:52 - Jeff Jarvis
A divan and you just read. So how are you on taking a book to read when eating alone in a restaurant or a bar?

2:30:58 - Paris Martineau
I love that, that's fantastic, I do too.

2:31:00 - Jeff Jarvis
Do people look at you funny? No, they think I'm cool, hot and fantastic smart oh.

2:31:04 - Paris Martineau
Great. No, they think I'm cool hot and fantastic smart?

2:31:06 - Leo Laporte
Oh great, she's smart. Do you prop it what?

2:31:10 - Paris Martineau
do you prop it up on? I just kind of hold it like this that's my difficulty. I always need something to no, no, I need to prop it up, or you could just hold it like this I'm thinking I will just bring.

2:31:21 - Leo Laporte
How do you eat at the same?

2:31:23 - Paris Martineau
time.

2:31:23 - Leo Laporte
No, no, no, no, no. I'm thinking. I'm going to bring a book stand with me.

2:31:28 - Paris Martineau
That's crazy. If you bring a book stand you really can look at, maybe you should go with a second person, but they're not there to eat, they're just there to flip the pages for you Just hold no book stand All right.

2:31:42 - Jeff Jarvis
here's the question, paris. How often do people think they're starting a conversation with you? So so what you're reading there?

2:31:50 - Paris Martineau
oh good, is that book good sometimes, yeah whenever I was reading, whenever I was rereading infinite jest. A lot of people ask me about it. Actually it's infinite jest, and they're like it's an infinite book.

2:32:03 - Leo Laporte
I have, uh, I have the, the physical book, and I have it on a kindle and every spring I try.

2:32:09 - Paris Martineau
I started over I think it's a book that would be really hard to read in the kindle because one it's got a million end notes and kind of part of the whole experience of the book is the disjointed is the disjointed experience of flipping from book to end note having two different you know bookmarks in there I think the way it works in the Kindle, you can actually read the end note without clicking.

2:32:27 - Leo Laporte
You can click yeah, which makes it a little easier, I don't know. Then you click back.

2:32:32 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, that doesn't do it for me. You got to experience the disjointed nature, much like the nonlinear narratives throughout Infinite Jest that David Foster Wallace has intricately weaving in there. He's doing the you gotta, you gotta make life hard, much like the Canadian eco terrorists who are wheelchair bound that are a a a large plot point in the end part, in the end notes of that book.

2:32:56 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't give away anything here.

2:32:58 - Leo Laporte
I really should just sit down and read it, shouldn't I?

2:33:01 - Paris Martineau
I mean, it's going to take you a long time to sit down, but it's great. It's a classic and it's also just very funny.

2:33:07 - Leo Laporte
It's just a very fun book. Yeah, all right, I'm going to pursue it. Every spring I do this, jeff Jarvis.

2:33:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, because traditionally, this is a number, the number we have to do this week. This is a huge number. I don't even know how to pronounce this number. I don't either. It's a 20 decillion dollar fine for a Russian court against Google. That's two and 34 zeros.

2:33:34 - Leo Laporte
Which is, by the way, larger than the entire global GDP, and it could get bigger, but obviously they know they're never going to collect this. It's Russia. What did they do wrong? Just out of curiosity.

2:33:51 - Jeff Jarvis
They didn't. They didn't put up some content that they thought that were blocking their content. So that was kind of boring.

2:33:58 - Leo Laporte
So then, this might be interesting, I don't know, I see how this worked out.

Wait a minute, now this is. This is actually a lesson in exponential growth. Oh, the, this is actually a lesson in exponential growth. Oh, the fine was 100,000 rubles a day. That's $1,000 a day, but it doubled every week. Compound interest. Compound interest Rates. Of what race? Yes, this is the prize for the invention of chess. The vizier said to the creator of chess what can I pay you for the invention of this great game? He said no, very easy. Put one grain of rice in the first square, two grains of rice in the second square, four grains. Double it each time per square, and that would be more rice than the entire history of the world.

Got him, Didn't get the rice, got his head chopped off. Smart ass yeah him didn't get the rice, got his head chopped off. Uh, smart ass for being a wiseacre. So, in a way, this wasn't a crazy fine, it was just. You know it's. Uh, four years ago it doubled every week, and now it's unbelievable, that's hysterical, and that was then we have moving channels on uh for removing channels on youtube.

2:35:07 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, another arcade a new ai product creation platform, which sounds like a gimmick, but I find this a bit interesting, so you can go on there and you can have ai design jewelry for you, in fact why don't you try turn? Your thoughts into things. Let's design something nice for Lisa. Oh, this is good.

2:35:30 - Leo Laporte
What should we do here? Does she like? Gold, silver, a ring with the name Valkyrie and a small pouch into which, oh it makes you log in.

2:35:46 - Paris Martineau
Oh, oh hell To log into Dream. Oh, it makes you log in. Oh, oh, hell To log in to dream.

2:35:50 - Leo Laporte
Oh, darn I'm sorry, I didn't try it. I can store bodily fluids. Okay, let's dream, let's dream. Well, I'll just.

2:36:03 - Jeff Jarvis
Continue with Google. Go ahead, yeah, go ahead. What the heck.

2:36:09 - Leo Laporte
I don't usually do this, but in this case, who cares?

2:36:11 - Paris Martineau
continue with this week in Google it is this week in Google.

2:36:15 - Leo Laporte
Okay, do I have to do it again? Okay, what was it? A diamond, let's see what it should be a diamond necklace. But we need the fluid pouch with Diamond.

2:36:27 - Paris Martineau
Let's see what it should be a diamond necklace. But we need the fluid pouch With a small.

2:36:33 - Jeff Jarvis
With a locket that can hold bodily fluids Locket for the storage of fresh bodily fluids Okay. Blue woods okay, anything else uh, should be gold or silver or gold chain and a and uh a little, do the pouch again. A little placard.

2:37:10 - Paris Martineau
Where's the placard going to go?

2:37:12 - Leo Laporte
Reans to. Let's see quote to my favorite. This doesn't have to be for Lisa. No, favorite moms.

2:37:31 - Paris Martineau
There we go. Okay, dream All right.

2:37:32 - Leo Laporte
Dream like this doesn't have to be for lisa. Uh, no favorite moms. Okay, dream all right. Dream I love to click. Dream. Dream you're, we're designing something completely new and unique with the help of arcades, ai models. The process can take up to 20 seconds and you do do. It's going to give me four different things.

2:37:45 - Paris Martineau
It's kind of like a mid-journey or hugging face I think it's just gonna send the police to your house. Yeah, really immediately okay okay, oh there it is here we go.

2:37:57 - Leo Laporte
Here we go, gold vermilion locket to my favorite mom's, and it has a little pouch but where's the fluid gonna go?

2:38:05 - Paris Martineau
That's the locket, that's it.

2:38:06 - Leo Laporte
No, no, no no.

2:38:08 - Jeff Jarvis
That's the one there.

2:38:09 - Leo Laporte
Only $410. Let's look what else we can get here. This one's a little more symmetric. Okay, I like the bottom left.

2:38:13 - Paris Martineau
honestly, Bottom left is pretty good oh bottom left.

2:38:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Okay, that's my favorite mom's40 dollars.

2:38:18 - Leo Laporte
Go ahead leo but I I think it's a little bit larger receptacle, which is a good 10 cc's. That's all I need. All right, let's see, here's two thousand dollars well, yeah, this is expensive because, uh, it's's got a lot of.

2:38:45 - Paris Martineau
Tovarib mis. Thank you, Giovo.

2:38:47 - Leo Laporte
We're getting Okay. It's got to work on the text. It was weird that some of them worked.

2:38:52 - Jeff Jarvis
So then you can allow others to buy this, oh.

2:38:56 - Leo Laporte
Should I put this for sale and you will get a commission and I get a commission. Yeah 2.5% commission To my favorite moms. It says mooms, it says mooms, mooms. Oh darn it. But Elon might want this for his house. One of each for the house.

2:39:14 - Jeff Jarvis
So what's seriously interesting to me, this right is five, ten years ago, you could suddenly make a new product and you could design it, and then you could use Chinese manufacturing and Amazon fulfillment. That's what this is, yeah. But now it's back up a further level. You don't even have to design it, you can just say make me something and then they'll make it for you, and then you can sell it and you're in the jewelry business? Yeah, You're going to be on QVC before you know it.

2:39:39 - Leo Laporte
But it's going to be average-looking jewelry.

2:39:43 - Paris Martineau
I do think this is going to result in just products everywhere on the internet. Looking like one thing, and then you receive something completely different. It's going to inspire a wave of dropshipping. Wow, yeah, exactly.

2:40:00 - Leo Laporte
It's by Leo for moms everywhere. Ladies and gentlemen, my favorite moms. My favorite moms.

2:40:10 - Jeff Jarvis
Actually, if you scroll down on the arcadeai page you see some pretty ugly jewelry the little dog, the gold Maltipoo charm.

2:40:21 - Leo Laporte
The problem is they're using kind of an old AI model, because most of the new AI models are good with text and they say you know, the text is not good. Oh yeah, these are not good.

2:40:31 - Jeff Jarvis
No.

2:40:33 - Leo Laporte
That is not something I would want you to wear, Paris.

2:40:37 - Paris Martineau
Nope.

2:40:38 - Leo Laporte
Nope.

2:40:39 - Jeff Jarvis
The Dreamer is scorpion sorbet.

2:40:42 - Leo Laporte
This is a ring. This is the worst ring ever, and what's funny is the ai thinks it's a watch it also. It put a watch winding stem on it or something that's.

2:40:57 - Paris Martineau
Thank you, scorpion sorbet, for dreaming that, but um it's very strange that you can't even look at the products without logging in yeah like scorpion sorbet is very prol can't even look at the products without logging in.

2:41:11 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, scorpion Cerve is very prolific. Yeah, yeah.

2:41:12 - Jeff Jarvis
Look at that. What does that cost?

2:41:18 - Leo Laporte
They don't have a price on this one, no.

2:41:19 - Speaker 4
It's coming soon. It is gold. It's coming soon. Waitlist. Join the waitlist because it's so popular?

2:41:25 - Leo Laporte
Oh, do you think they're very popular?

2:41:28 - Paris Martineau
No no.

2:41:30 - Leo Laporte
No, that's why but.

2:41:32 - Jeff Jarvis
I found it interesting, theoretically.

2:41:36 - Leo Laporte
I think they're onto something. Frankly, I think this isn't a bad idea. I feel like there's more. Better implementation would make it more.

2:41:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, but it's kind of Kickstarter, it's personal Kickstarter. Yeah yeah, but it's kind of Kickstarter, it's personal Kickstarter.

2:41:49 - Leo Laporte
Yeah yeah, so that's it Probably the same amount of disappointment as regular Kickstarter I predict before the end of next year we'll have a story about Etsy adding AI to some tools.

2:41:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, yes, exactly, yep, right.

2:42:00 - Paris Martineau
And everyone will hate it. Yeah.

2:42:03 - Jeff Jarvis
So imagine being the poor craftsperson who says I got to, yeah. So imagine being the poor crafts person who says I gotta make this, but there's a picture. They have a machine that makes it?

2:42:11 - Leo Laporte
I'm sure there's an ai machine that makes it. Do you think a crafts person? Oh, there's a picture of a craft person. You know, I feel really bad if, when you think about all the crap that we have made in china, yeah, there are people, poor people, who are sitting there in china making love dolls and Pikachu necklaces.

2:42:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Political hats.

2:42:30 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, weird stuff. Hot dog hats. There is a factory in China that's sole output is Nathan. Hot dog hats. And there's some poor person that is the mustard girl, and she's got to put the foam mustard on the hot dog.

2:42:47 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, it is unfortunate.

2:42:48 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, it was too straight. No, you got to have more of a curve to it.

2:42:51 - Leo Laporte
That's what the Americans like. She's probably paid a nickel a day.

2:42:55 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, she's five years old, nathan's could give it away.

2:42:59 - Leo Laporte
You didn't buy that right.

2:43:00 - Paris Martineau
They gave it to you. I did get it for free.

2:43:02 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, what a world we've created with AI and. Ladies and gentlemen, I had Nathan's hot dogs just yesterday. Did you have one?

2:43:14 - Paris Martineau
Dang, I want a hot dog.

2:43:16 - Leo Laporte
I do too. They're so good.

2:43:18 - Jeff Jarvis
How does. Steve Ben get a tan in prison. Sorry, my TV's on.

2:43:24 - Paris Martineau
Of course it is Stop watching.

2:43:26 - Leo Laporte
TV, actually start watching TV, because we're done. He has sunburned.

2:43:30 - Jeff Jarvis
He's all mottled with sunburn. How did this happen?

2:43:33 - Leo Laporte
He's out in the yard they get to go outside.

2:43:34 - Paris Martineau
He's always been a red guy.

2:43:37 - Jeff Jarvis
No, this is weird, this is very weird Anyway.

2:43:40 - Leo Laporte
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes this thrilling, gripping edition of this Week in Google. We thank you so much for watching. We do the show every Wednesday, 2 pm Pacific, 5 pm Eastern and now 2200 UTC, because in just a few days, we are going to fall back.

2:44:01 - Paris Martineau
That's glass, it's his halo.

2:44:04 - Leo Laporte
It's beautiful. He looks like a saint, a medieval saint. This is cold type, that's cold type.

2:44:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Wow, well, this is what made cold type, if you can't see it. But there's little letters here. You see them there? Those are letters. And the laser would shine through it onto photographic paper. That's super cool and that's how type was made before we had PostScript.

2:44:29 - Leo Laporte
Laser jets. You can also watch the show by downloading a copy on demand from our website, twittv slash twig. There's a YouTube channel dedicated to this Week in Google and of course, the best thing to do is subscribe in your favorite podcast player. That way you'll get it automatically the minute it is available. You will find the great works of Paris Martineau at the information where she's working on youth issues for the weekend. But I'm sure if you had a big story and were to send her a scoop to her signal account, martineau dot, oh one she could be writing about almost anything. If they, if you got a big scoop like a really big, like a hot politics scoop, would you be allowed to, to run with the story, like they would say well, it's your scoop yeah, probably.

2:45:18 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, I think it was a big enough scoop for sure.

2:45:20 - Leo Laporte
Yeah yeah, I think that would be fair. So send her her something good, markno.01. Jeff Jarvis has a new job. He is oh, I don't have it written down Jobs, jobs. He is doing some stuff. I'm a visiting professor at Stony.

2:45:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Brook University's School of Communication and Journalism, not communications.

2:45:44 - Paris Martineau
Communications.

2:45:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Only one communication I got scolded already, not communications, communications.

2:45:46 - Leo Laporte
Only one communication.

2:45:48 - Jeff Jarvis
I got scolded already Always singular, and I am a distinguished fellow at the Center for Cooperative Media at Montclair State University's School of Communication and Media and I am still, still and forever the Emeritus Leonard Taub Professor of Journalism Innovation at the Craig Craig Craig Newmont, newark Graduate School of Journalism.

2:46:15 - Leo Laporte
And look for his piece at the Columbia Journalism Review. His blog is buzzmachinecom. His books are available at the Gutenberg, at gutenbergparenthesiscom oh sorry, yes, at jeffjarviscom Both the Gutenberg Parenthesis Magazine and his brand new one, the Web. We was at a grammatical error to say both and then mentioned three items.

2:46:36 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, you should be ashamed of yourself.

2:46:38 - Leo Laporte
What should I say instead of both, such as all, all books. His books. His books are available at Jeff Jarvis dot com including my current books, his books, his books are available. His books are available at JeffJarviscom, including such great books as the Gutenberg Parenthesis magazine and the web.

2:46:56 - Jeff Jarvis
We weave, blurred by none other than Leo.

2:47:00 - Leo Laporte
Than moi. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you all for putting up with us. That's really the best way to describe it. We will be back next week and we'll attempt to do a better show. I apologize.

2:47:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, I'm not going to be here, so you know it's a better show. I'm speaking about Micah Sargent next week.

2:47:16 - Leo Laporte
I'm in Mainz. Oh, that'll fix everything.

2:47:18 - Paris Martineau
He's going to be at ConCon.

2:47:20 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

2:47:21 - Paris Martineau
Content conference.

2:47:23 - Jeff Jarvis
In where For?

2:47:24 - Paris Martineau
ex-cons.

2:47:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Mainz, Germany. The birthplace of Mainz is not in con, unfortunately. No, it's not, it would be better.

2:47:29 - Paris Martineau
Have they ever had con-con at con? They should, but it has to be con-con at can Can-con-con Can-con at con, can you con-con All right.

2:47:39 - Leo Laporte
well, have a nice trip to Mainz. I'm sorry, we'll miss you.

2:47:47 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm flying out on election day night. I'm going to be crazy. I'm going to ask for asylum when I'm there. Would you move to Germany?

2:47:50 - Paris Martineau
He's going to be having shakes in the plane, being away from MSNBC for that long.

2:47:56 - Leo Laporte
Who are you flying? Because many of them will have MSNBC. I'm going to be sleeping on the way over. You can't sleep. He's not going to sleep. That's crazy. I used a lot of miles for business class Good for you.

2:48:06 - Jeff Jarvis
You can't sleep. He's not going to sleep. That's crazy. I used a lot of miles for business class. Good for you, a lot of miles.

2:48:11 - Leo Laporte
My flat, no, it's always the way to go. Thank you, jeff, thank you Paris. Thanks to all of you for joining us. We'll see you next time on this Week in Google. Bye-bye.