This Week in Google 740, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's time for twig this week in google. Paris martin, oh, is here, yay. Jeff jarvis is here and prude has a week off, oh, but he'll be back next week. Lots to talk about. I had a dream a way to make the world safe from ai. We'll talk about that. Sir gebrin has a dream to bring back zeppelins, and google has an idea that maybe the dot I and g domain will be hot. All that and a lot more coming up next on twig podcasts you love from people you trust this is twig.

00:41
This is twig this week in google, episode 740, recorded wednesday, november 1st 2023. Michael angelo's nun chucks this week in google is brought to you by mirro, the online workspace for innovation, where your team can dream, design and build the future together from any location. Tap into a way to map processes, visualize content, run retrospectives and keep all your documents and data in one place. Get your first three boards for free at mirrocom slash podcast and by collide. Collide is a device trust solution for companies with octa and they ensure if a device isn't secure and trusted, it can't log into your cloud apps. Visit collidecom slash twig to book an on-demand demo today. It's time for twig this week in google to show we covered everything but google. Paris martin knows here. Hello paris what's up?

01:42
what's up from the information dot com. There's your signal number, if you've got a hot tip for uh, and there's your rubber plant. Or is that a what it? What kind of place? Is that a pothos?

01:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
it's a monstera a monstera larger than me. It is taking over my home.

01:59
It's taking over my life you didn't think, when you bought the plant that's named monster, that it might well, I didn't think about it, because for many years I lived in apartments with poor light and it stayed about the size of like two to three cats, and I moved to this apartment, put it in my bathroom, which gets great light and humidity, and it is more than six feet tall. I have five baby versions of this plant all over my apartment oh, it's off.

02:27
Oh, that's cool I mean it's puts off because I'm cutting it, because it's getting too large that's actually exciting.

02:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
At some point you might be engulfed by a monster.

02:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean at some point you might say, oh, paris martin, oh, and it'll just be a plant here she could be really fun for you listeners I believe that that was, uh, a men in black comic episode at one point.

02:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Um, anyway, hi paris, good to see you hi leo jeff jarvis is also here. You may know him. What did you say? Did you say the f word when I said your name? Oh no, I said speaking of men in black. Oh okay, all I heard was that we never curse on this, never be never be.

03:10 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Taught us not to. It was a last week for sure never.

03:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He's the lending town professor for journalistic innovation at the great newmark graduate school of journalism at the city university I have to be very careful of my pipes, leo what's the matter? I'm I'm two thirds of the way through doing my book I saw the picture of you, uh and the screen and your producer getting down. How, how many hours in this, in this, in the little little cell, have you?

03:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
spent. They scheduled it for four full days, 10 to five. I've done two so far. We're two thirds of the way through the books. So if we really do a good job and if I don't f up again and again, and again and again, as is my want, tomorrow we might be able to do it and end up three days when I did a very short piece, uh for audible, my biggest problem was rushing, speaking too quickly oh, lord knows me too yeah oh yeah, that, and I just you know the guy's job.

04:07
He's one toni's wonderful. Of course he has to watch every single word. I saw. No, you left out the the right, oh bad you have to get it exact.

04:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You wrote it. You can't get it. You can't. You have to get it exactly right once.

04:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think it's his, it's his honor kind of. So yeah, I exact how interesting yeah, if I may plug, I'm plugging also. Tomorrow is pub day exciting, or magazine object lessons magazines a little book. It's a little wee book and I tell the story of the launch of entertainment weekly in here. I tell stories of kandey nast, where both paris and I have worked. Uh, I talk about the life and roles of the magazine.

04:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a fun little book, this is a big opportunity, uh, for you, paris, because jeff can hardly speak in ant pru. It's not here.

04:50 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So, yeah, it's your show it's my, it's my time to take over the show, jeff do I have permission to show this picture?

04:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
it's from facebook and I feel I, I, I, what? Is this? Yeah, sure, sure I feel like I always show an instagram picture. Oh, yeah, but I but I, I don't know about that was also on instagram oh, I think okay no, I don't know.

05:10 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, I put it on a side, put it all kind of everywhere, yeah I looked at instagram and I did not see it, so I I ran facebook it's fun, it's all I think it was on a story perhaps oh, it was a story that I've seen it.

05:20 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Somehow I don't have you on facebook oh, we have to fix that.

05:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Are you on?

05:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
facebook? I don't have any. No, I use facebook for marketplace and joining weird groups.

05:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
As it relates to my reporting, yeah, basically that's why I'm on back on facebook is to see what's going on with disinformation during this war and the election to come are you seeing much disinformation? No, but for some reason I facebook has gotten so much worse. For some reason. I mentioned this before. I almost hesitate to say this, but without me giving them any input. I'm seeing a lot of scantily clad women on my facebook page.

06:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Um that is definitely just a demographic choice by facebook yeah, they're.

06:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They're pushing these towards me. These aren't people I know, um I, but for some reason they're pushing these, uh, girlie pictures my way and I don't, I don't, I don't want to beautiful women in the usa.

06:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I never. Yeah, now I know that I can, I know that I can um snooze beautiful women for 30 days, no hide it all beautiful, hide it.

06:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Hide all beautiful women don't want to see wow, don't pick that but. But I ask you, mark zuckerberg, why did you decide to and I mean, I'm not kidding such as that account? There are hundreds of them all over my facebook.

06:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But you know what happened to me, leo. I accidentally got switched. Go ahead, barris I was saying.

06:45 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's so funny that it says you will not see any photos from all beautiful women in the usa and your feet anymore these are all recommended posts of of women in their underwear and I did not ask for this is the well I have a.

06:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I have an old fan page, kind of when I did the first book and I got switched and I haven't used it years and, years and years. I got switched with somehow on the phone and it was all junk and none of my people and nothing at all, and when I switched back to me it was okay again. All I can say is really hard to switch. I'm not, I'm on my personal page.

07:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's got the pictures of me and my wife. It says I'm married, maybe because of my age, I don't know why it's definitely your demographic and that you're a man on facebook this is just what they show.

07:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You're a man on your age and well, it works for a lot of them.

07:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So it's a thirst trap and I'm not happy about it.

07:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't like it anyway I'll open up my facebook feed and scroll and what do you get?

07:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
do you get men in their underwear? What do you get?

07:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
no, I get like I've gotten in john tickets to a john oliver show.

07:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
See that I would like the atlantic yeah, that's good, a bunch of posts oh, you're classy, unlike you, lio furniture see, they understand you, they understand you paris, and they think they understand me. Maybe they do. Maybe that's really what I want carnegie hall. That's more a hybrid, wow facebook, it's because you live in brooklyn it's true I think, I'm getting root 80 rant.

08:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Commute with johnny's french fries and hot dogs so that you appropriate that you're getting junk food.

08:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm. I'm getting women in bikinis barrel couch.

08:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm getting a crate and barrel couch that's all white, which I think is really aspirational. It's really ambitious of facebook to recommend here's the weird thing.

08:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I have two crate and barrel couches in my house. They're not white, they're leather, they're brown, but still I'm the one who I should be getting that facebook. You don't know me like you think you know me um did you say you had a dream?

08:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
lio, I okay, so the big story.

08:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it's gonna yes thank you for reminding me the big story, uh, this week is the this on monday, the president issued an executive order that basically says you know we ought to be safe when it comes to ai. So I mean, I can't really disagree, and he has some proposals for what that means. Interestingly, at the same time as he did that, this is the executive order of the safe, secure and trustworthy development and use of artificial intelligence, or eos, to dufe ai, um, it doesn't. Uh. Policy and principles the policy of my administration to advance and govern the development and use of ai in accordance with eight guiding principles and priorities.

09:52
Artificial intelligence must be safe and secure. Okay, okay, so should uh? No, no, should stare trends promoting responsible innovation, competition and collaboration will allow the united states to lead an ai and unlock the technology's potential to solve some of society's most difficult challenges. The responsible development and use of ai requires a commitment to supporting american workers. This is just bs. They're just taking normal governmental uh boilerplate and adding the word ai to it. Artificial intelligent policies must be consistent with my administration's dedication to advancing equity and civil rights. Okay, there's some. There's something to be said there, because we know ai can be a little bias. But what exactly?

10:35 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
how do you do that? I'm not really what. It would spit back all of our biases and all of our prejudice in society back to you um the checks that first there is stuff.

10:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean I'm not reading the full, I'm just reading the bullets it is a very long paragraph yeah, my administration cannot and will not tolerate the use of ai to disadvantage those who were already too often tonight. Equal opportunity and and justice, from housing to health care. We've seen what happens with ai. Use deepens discrimination and bias. Um, the good. The thing I will say, and it goes on and on and on. The thing I'll say about this is it focuses on the proximate dangers of ai, not not the bs extinction. On the other hand, there's also the e? U is right now going through this.

11:24
Actually, ben thompson has a great piece, uh, in stratigraphy. Um, he calls it attenuating innovation. That's he. That's what he says ai stands for and it actually. It's a little trip down memory lane because he starts with bill gates blaming the department of justice on why we didn't, they didn't dominate and phone it completely wrong, uh, and then talking about how steve jobs really got it right by saying we don't know what a new technology will do. You just have to put it out and the people will tell you. In any event, uh, ben talks about what's going on in the e?

11:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
u right now we're, by the way, well e u or uk, because the uk has the median.

12:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There's a uk, yeah, the bletchley park thing, but it's got, it's got. Your europeans are there as well, as it's not just the uk, in fact, we're there, but yeah, yeah, the vice presidents there, yeah, um, so this bletchley park thing is more focusing on, you know, the risks of extinction.

12:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Uh, we're musk. Just just I got it. Musk is there. He meets with the prime minister. Musk was on um rishi sunak broken. Yeah, uh, saying that. Uh, what he fears is that environmentalists will use ai to exterminate humanity to protect the earth. This is here.

12:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You're inviting this guy to tea, why he's well, and then rishi sunak came out with a statement which basically is the plot of the video game horizon really yeah I mean kind of yeah, that's where the end game gets it to spoilers for horizon, but I guess I think elon musk had a dream.

13:03
Actually, I guess he had a dream and it uh is a licensed media property so my, anyway, the, the, the, the, the bletchley park declaration is more about existential harms. The eio from the president in the us is more about proximate harms. I finally figured out last night in a dream. The problem is not ai, the problem is people. Yes, and and and really, uh, you know, every major technological innovation has been co-opted by humans for a weapons system. Uh, or sometimes the other way around. We got computers because the defense department baked computer computers so they could aim bombs more accurately in world war two.

13:51
But it, the main motivation of humanity, is how can we kill each other better, and uh. So if there's a risk of extinction from ai, it's not from ai, it's that it will be a weapon system. When, when you know, you think about the atomic bomb, uh, physicists came up with, uh, some really important discoveries in quantum mechanics and relativity that led us to believe that you could convert matter to massive amounts of energy. Einstein's equation e equals mc squared the, that the amount of energy you could get out of a gram of matter was equal to that gram times the speed of light, squared a huge number. And. And somebody then said you know, and make a great bomb, and we had the manhattan project, and I think that's the real risk from ai is that in fact it's probably already happening, and not just in the us, but I'm sure in china they're looking at ways to use ai to control the populace. They're looking at ways to use ai to fight wars, and that's the existential threat, not to.

15:01 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They've used. They've used fire for that, they've used every technological rest for that, except for the zippered everything every, except for the zipper, every technological innovation has been used just you wait, just wait, the zippers days are coming to kill more people

15:16 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
is never going to 2001 space.

15:19 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
My zipper is ai control, oh no yeah, you know what?

15:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
add an ai to that zipper, and then you've got a mass extinction there you go a 2001 space odyssey. That's basically what that's about, right well, now, now benito guzallis, who is our esteemed producer and the technical director. Uh, what is the plot of 2001?

15:38 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
in the beginning? Who could tell? The monkeys are going to throw? They're going around with their bones, the first tool they used to as a weapon, and that's a weapon.

15:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They figure out you can use a bone to kill other monkeys, right um, and that was thanks to the turns it into the the star wars, whatever the star wars thing, yeah

15:55 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
you know, I've never had benito, I've never had that movie explained to me. As the six leaves you just thank you very much, no problem?

16:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
well, there was a, there was a monolith placed on the earth, and then there was another monolith, that on jupiter. And once we get to a certain technological level, we'll discover the monolith in jupiter.

16:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And then, and then the movie becomes completely it's all over yeah, but then the zippers come in, and who's to say where we go from there?

16:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
but am I not wrong? That the real threat of ai is it's just another technology like atomic few, like like fission, but yeah but but where do we go from there?

16:32 - Paris Martineau (Host)
what I mean? What? I think you end up in the same sort of issue that you were in when we came to the atomic bomb or any of these other weapons, which is it's a race to the finish line. If you're not using it for war, another country or power or entity will not. That that means using it for war is a necessarily good thing, but we're probably going to be in an arms race.

16:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know what that would look like in the case of ai, because I don't think it's as easily translatable to active harm as, you know, a bomb or, dare I say, a zipper what a number of people have said, including yanlacoon from facebook, ben thompson in the stratet, a stratetary article is that sam altman and other movers and shakers in big ai are really just saying this as a former and I've said this for a while as a form of regulatory capture please stop all development of ai so that we can, we can win, uh, and so we. I think I read I've rejected that, we've rejected that before. That's, that's not the threat of ai and we shouldn't stop ai development. But I don't think these bleschley park declarations or the executive order from the president really are quite on the nose. I think what we really need is a geneva convention, almost. Well, no, we need to agree on among among the major powers not to use ai militarily.

17:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Okay, okay how would we be using ai militarily? Yeah, oh, that's what well, okay.

17:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So here's to me. This is the scenario that I dreamt of last night. Have you seen robo cop? So the first, the first step, is minority report style use of real works all around the clock so the first I did watch minority report the other night and clocks in yeah the brain is always working. Um, so the first use will be from law enforcement, trying to predict crime, pre-crime? Uh, try, and we're already doing that. Uh, there's an ai tool that finds gunshots, except it's horrifically wrong, right?

18:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
uh, that many, many and also the facial recognition tool facial recognition used to find people who have committed crimes, which is also often horrifically wrong.

18:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So that's, that's the initial use and and only slightly harmful but it's. But you see the already, the in the inclination is well, how can we use this tool? First to control people? I could see china's already, I'm sure, looking at ways to use social credit and other things with ai to control their population. And then it's just a short step from there to autonomous fighting machines leo, can I, can I try to calm you down for a second?

19:21 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
yes, all that can be true, could, could, could, things could be done with these tools. But the danger of your way of thinking there it will control the tool.

19:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That everything is okay, well, no, no, I didn't say control it, totally didn't listen well, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I.

19:37 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We have to be careful not to cut off. At the same time, I agree the good uses that come and let's remember back, and I just I'm in my next book out next to your basic books. Title changed I don't know what it is now. Um goes through this and and the the panic about radio was exactly similar professor professor, it's gotta be used by bad people in bad ways. No, in fact it was.

20:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It was used by gerbils, but it was also used by f dr so I'm not proposing that we stop the technology, and that's exactly what's wrong with these. Bletchley park and the eo, right, right, uh. Is that they're saying, well, let's halt everything and figure out some rules and stuff. I don't even think there should be regulation. That's what ben thompson's saying, that ai doesn't stand for artificial intelligence, it stands for uh. What did he say? Um, oh, I forgot already was the headline of it attenuating innovation.

20:30
That's why I'm saying we need more, something more like a geneva accord. We need an agreement like chemical, like a chemical warfare thing yeah we need to agree that you don't use those companies. Biological warfare yes, that we will, and we maybe need to say and it will not be used for law enforcement or coercive but what is?

20:49 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
it? Isn't ai in that, in that context? So that's a great question, right? What do you not use laptops? Do you not use google search, do you?

20:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
not using, uh, an algorithm on the right, your facebook?

21:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
we've talked a lot about ai versus algorithms.

21:04
Um, maybe we shouldn't be using computers for war either, but my well, the risk of extent of that bomb is out of the out of the sile the existential risk is that you lose, to lose control of the ai right, that's what everybody's talking about, and you, and it's not an issue to lose control of chat gpt it happens every time I use it.

21:25
It's an issue to lose control of a arms system uh, it's an issue to lose control of an enforcement system of robo cup. So I think we make rules about not ai, but how humans can use ai, or or what kind of agency you give ai. We need a geneva accord between governments. Now, that's not going to stop, just as, as you know, unfortunately terrorists can have access to atomic bombs. Now it's not going to stop, uh, humans from doing what we do so well, which is misuse the technology. But at least, if government's going to get involved, at least governments should step forward and say we commit to not using these tools in weapons systems, uh, in coercive policing systems and that kind of thing in face recognition I think.

22:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think that the issue with ai is that it is not as simple as any of these tools that we have uh come before. Ai is more like an accelerant for a vast array of things, but what an accelerant think about I mean, what an accelerant?

22:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
an accelerant think about atomic fission we had bombs before then and all they were thinking as well, it'll be a bigger bomb oh no, it's an even bigger bomb, and that's the thing is.

22:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Ai will do that to both. You know policing, yes, terrible facial recognition stuff, as well as, uh, you know, leo's silly pins a bunch of probably good things that I'm not thinking of right now because I'm in demerit mode.

22:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Fission is also nuclear power plant is going to.

23:03 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You know, fission's not all bad, that's what? Yeah, I know, but I mean that's what makes the solution difficult here.

23:10
Well, but I'm just saying what would a geneva convention on ai look like here? Because you, in order to regulate something that has crossed all industries in this way, is going to be really difficult. I don't think that it's impossible, but it's going to be incredibly difficult and it's going to be the sort of conversation that I don't think we as a nation, much less like us as a global community, have had before, a conversation that is that nuanced and predictive, because right now, this is all in a very early stage as well.

23:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, and that's also uh, ben thompson's point is that it's it would be restrictive on innovation. But instead of using radio, let's use atomic fission as as an example, because that's really a much more dramatic tool. Um, if, before we invented, the atom bomb would, would it have been prudent for us to think about whether we should?

24:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
certainly, but also I think it would have been prudent, but it also wouldn't have mattered, because the reason why we ended up in an arms race over the atomic bomb is because the nazis were on the other side of it well, that's why openheimer did it right he was jewish yeah and he knew that the nazis he was told the nazis are working on it, they're probably closer.

24:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He knew the scientists and he knew, yeah, they, they could beat us and that would be the end of the world if the atom, if the nazis got atomic bombs. So we have to develop them. Do you think we're in that situation? We better develop a I weaponry before the other guy does I think now is a good time for us to say let's not.

24:51
Now would be a perfect time because you're right, the minute we're in a war it's too late, we're gonna define, define what's forbidden. So write the statute, write the, write the statement so I have to think more about it, but I think in general the idea is not to give ai's agency in the physical world uh, or to very much restrict the kind of agency. Look, they're not a threat to us you want.

25:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You want human responsibility yes, because the problem isn't the technology ever.

25:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's what humans do with it and we want the technology to do to do the good stuff. So what we could probably do is think about well, what, what limits on the use of ai would we like to?

25:35 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
or at least say for weapons systems at least how about? Robots. I think that's even even closer to ai than vision vision. So big use in the controversy we're already in, as the robots make cleaning even killing even cleaner easier we're gonna love it.

25:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Soldiers aren't at risk. You get a boston dynamics dog, you give it ai. It can tell the difference between, let's say, hey, we figured out how to tell. Teach spot how to tell the difference between a hamas agent and a palestinian civilian. Have at it. Do we want to allow that? Isn't that same a little risky? Yes, yes, yeah, I don't think, but I mean I think Do you think the Israeli government, if given that opportunity, would try to pursue that? Yes, oh absolutely Do you think they might already be trying to pursue that.

26:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I agree with you wholeheartedly. There certainly should be people out there saying, yeah, let's have a human in this and not just have an autonomous entity, a machine of some sort, making these decisions. But I also think we are probably a ways away from that, a ways away from these sort of intelligence that people fear, Because all you have to do is add face recognition to a spot the atomic.

26:56
Okay, I will say yeah, to play devil's advocate a little bit. What is scarier Can build something that they are calling autonomously intelligent, or someone right now is cobbling together a series of systems to make decisions in a way that they want and hiding behind the responsibility of it being autonomously intelligent. But it's really just-.

27:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, precisely Plus, we have, as stochastic parents pointed out, we have kind of an inherent trust of these systems. Oh, they are going to be objective and non-biased, in a way, a human never could be, and so we should trust them. If we put this robot out there that's figuring out who the bad guys are and who the good guys are, I think now is a good time to go to governments and say let's all agree not to do this.

27:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But here's the thing, leo. It's just like privacy legislation, it's just like internet safety legislation. It's all this stuff it's government saying to companies and individuals it's trying to control them, not themselves. There's no discussion here of controlling government, and government is a bigger threat to privacy.

28:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's why I'm saying it's Geneva Accords. Those are between governments. I don't see it happening. Well, if it doesn't happen, we're in deep trouble.

28:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah. I don't see it happening, but I'm also a pessimist. I think it would be great if something like that happened and it was I'm just saying let's-. We had our best experts in the world working on this, certainly.

28:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It would be awesome. That's what it seems unlikely. I'm saying let's redirect all this attention on, oh, safe AI. What does that mean? Regulatory capture, blah, blah, blah. No, no, the people are the problem. We need to go to government to government, get the governments together, have a big summit.

28:39 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You're not just saying the people are the problem. You're saying in this case, it's the governments are the potential Well obviously it is people, because just nuclear weapons, you're going to have a suitcase bomb. It's not civilians, it's not corporations.

28:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Ultimately it may be, but right now the most proximate danger is from government. So let's do that Now. We couldn't do it with cyber terrorism. But I mean, look, I'm not saying this is going to happen, I'm just saying I would prefer to advocate for this, and I did have this epiphany last night that there is an existential threat from AI. But it's not the AI, it's how humans use it. I don't think it's hard to think of a way that humans could use this, weaponize this, in such a way that it would be a real problem.

29:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Right, absolutely. I think, especially given what you just said, that people put a lot of faith in these technologies, whether or not we actually do the things that they're supposed to do.

29:36 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, there's a cheery opening to the show.

29:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I'm saying no, no, no, no. You're the one who said we're doing. I'm the one who said let's get together, guys and figure it out. Let's go to the Chinese and the Russians and the Indians and the Koreans and let's say you know, this is perhaps a risk. We should all be worried about the reason we don't. We can agree not to use chemical weapons and, yeah, admittedly there are governments using chemical weapons, but Shar uses chemical weapons against the.

30:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think what you're talking about is not let's let's cast it a different way here slightly that no autonomous weapons systems, that even a drone is controlled by a human, who would, ultimately, is responsible, a robot? I think you're looking for autonomous, no.

30:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What was that? This is a US Phalanx CIWS aiming at a passenger airplane. This is an autonomous gun aiming at a passenger airplane. Just yeah, and the sailor who's not in control of this is not to just thinking it's funny Love that he sound.

30:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It sounds like when your cat jumps on the wrong table. Yeah, oh no.

30:47 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Cavalier approach. No, those robots with guns we, we can't with.

30:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
governments have gotten together and agreed let's not use chemical weapons after World War one.

30:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So you don't want, I think what you want to do is a hazard Everybody and you don't want to open the doors box, so I don't want autonomous systems. Ai. Ai becomes a. Then you have to define the AI, whether it's a robot or a drone or a computer program doing something.

31:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here's the issue Every decision by human being that doesn't have agency in the world is harmless the minute it's given agency, if the minute it can do something in the world, whether it's unplugged, unplugged the socket or or bomb a civilian population it's at.

31:29
it's a risk because we don't, because we think AIs are reliable and trustworthy and they're not any more reliable and trustworthy on these things than humans are but we're going to give them power to make these decisions. We need to have a bright red line that governments all agree to that. Yeah, we, we got to watch out. We're going to have to watch out for the agency because as soon as they get, act upon the world there's a risk.

31:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, they're they're going to do. They do this today. They do scenario planning. Right, they are going to write scenarios. The computers have done it for years, but it has to be a human being who makes the decision in the end. The same problem of facial recognition. The sin isn't. I have a sin on the show for ages. It's not in the facial recognition. It's if, if you believe it and act on it in an unjust way.

32:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And we, by the way, we're capable of this. We did that with atomic weapons. For a while, there was the thinking that the best way to have mutually assured destruction was to have automatic remember, dr Strangelove? Automatic systems, so that there you wouldn't have to, that the Russians would have absolute assurance that if you attacked us, our automated systems are going to bomb the hell out of you, and that that would protect us and we. We, I think we learned pretty quickly no, there needs to be a human, there need to be two humans with keys on opposite ends of the room, because you can't trust these systems Right, and that's because we are now in this bubble where we think AI, that's the solution. Ai could do this reliably, you know, without any mistakes.

32:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Some think that saying people do not.

33:02 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I do think it is worth trying to have the conversation early, at least in this case.

33:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean, it's now or never, it can't hurt. Because, just as with Oppenheimer, once there's a threat that let's say, the Chinese are about to do this, then every responsible scientist in the United States will say well, we got to do it. You know, we don't want to fight a child, an autonomous. You know we don't want the clone wars, we don't want to fight an autonomous Chinese army. So we, you know, I, I, I, I never worry about a Chinese invasion of the United States. Right, no country would be stupid enough to physically invade the U? S. It's too geographically spread out and we have way too many guns, so no country would do that, right. Except, you know, hey, if you were going to do it, if you were going to do it, maybe if you did it with robots.

33:54 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, still, you have to have a hell of a lot of them, and you have to stop making iPhones for a lot of years, I think.

34:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think the Chinese already are thinking about using these kinds of systems for population control, coercion, and I think that they could easily I'm sure that our government and other governments are too.

34:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm sure that most large powers are yeah.

34:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know. Okay, so. So here's a New York time.

34:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That also assumes our third person effect is that when you go back to them and do it again go back to print, go back to radio the presumption is oh my God, people are sheeple and we can control them easily. And I think we have to give people as a species a little more credit than that. Now, some people you can say well, how do we get the extremists in this country Cause, that's, that's, that's playing to something deeper and darker in there. It's not about a message that controls them.

34:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here's a. Here's a story. Thanks to our discord from the New York times, ai comes to the U S Air Force. The Air Force gave the New York times a behind the scenes. Look at its effort to build a new generation of autonomous combat planes that rely on artificial intelligence. No pilot in the air or on the ground.

35:06 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I see the no on the ground issue is not cut.

35:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wow, so that is the base near where I grew up. That's wild.

35:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So I'm just thinking, instead of you know, everybody getting together and saying you know, we really ought to slow down, uh, open AI, uh or we, but you know, uh or uh, we need a AI that likes humans, we should maybe be thinking a little bit more about the militarization of AI, uh, and and maybe make some rules about uh. That, to me, is the real threat.

35:41 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, those rules will have to come up, emergent from civil society. They're not going to come from government. Government's not going to say, oh, let's control ourselves. Even though there is a bill already in Congress to not allow AI to launch a nuclear weapon, fine, thank you very much, um, but it's got to come from civil society. It's got to come. And is it UN? Is it the world economic?

36:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
forum. This is where Margaret Mitchell and Timnit Gebru are right with stochastic pirates, because there is this, you know, sense that. Well, somehow, because the computer's doing it, it's going to be more reliable, more robust, uh, more fair, more just. No, no, right, they're completely right, all right, that was my dream. I have a dream. Some of us have nice dreams.

36:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wow, I think a little, uh, a little darker than I've been arguing. Everyone was talking about. I have a dream.

36:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yes, I've been arguing for months now that, oh, existential Schmeck's existential Uh. But what I forgot is humans. And you know, you know what prompted all this? Uh, two things. One, of course, what's going on in Gaza right now? Uh, and, and you know, between the 2000 Hamas terrorists who murdered innocent children and party goers, and then the? Uh move, the, the, the knee, jerk military response from Israel to go into Gaza and do the same, it really became clear to me that, as humans, we're a murderous, bloodthirsty species. And then I was watching band of brothers, which was about World War II, and and uh, how they marched into the camps and how appalled they were by it. And then I started watching a documentary uh that was made by Alfred Hitchcock and others, film shot at the end of the war, uh, directly in these camps, and it reminded me how awful we are as a species and how readily you got to watch some different things.

37:35
No, we are no. Look, there's plenty of wonderful things. There's also Michelangelo. There's wonderful things, but humans, uh, michelangelo did weapon systems too. We're a bloodthirsty lot and, um, I feel like every technology that we come up with, the very first thing is well, can I kill somebody with this? And I think that's what's going to happen with AI and that's what really worries me.

37:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
His signature weapons were a single and dual noon chaka. What were you talking about, bruce Lee? Well, that's, that's. That's sorry, that's Michelangelo.

38:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You're talking about the teenage mutant.

38:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That is the teenage mutant. Yeah, that is the turtle, I know.

38:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Michelangelo, michelangelo, I wasn't talking about him Um shoot.

38:21 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
This is the problem I was searching Michelangelo.

38:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I can't look up.

38:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Michelangelo is nun shucks Michelangelo, michelangelo.

38:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He's not here.

38:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Uh, can somebody get on mid journey and get us a, uh, a thumbnail with Michelangelo, as nun shucks in it. Because, I think we have a show title. Uh, all right, let's take a break. Look, that's depressing, it's really depressing, but I'm, I just feel like, um, I, I. What I realized is that there's a really good direction to regulate AI, and that's it, uh, and that's something we really need to, but you're regulating government.

38:54 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You are not regulated AI, and I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. But A if you regulate AI, you're regulated human beings in the end, and this case, the human beings you're regulating are military and government, and so it's not regulating AI at all.

39:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Whether it's right. It's regulating the use of AI, just in the same way as if you said we will not use nuclear fission to make bombs. Uh, that would be. Would have been a nice thing. Too late, missed the boat on that one. But let's not give the bombs to the AI, okay, that's all. That's all I'm saying, seems. Seems obvious.

39:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think it's a good idea. I, but I don't know, maybe I'm just too cynical. I am also. I feel like it is unlikely that it would come to pass in terms of government regulating itself. And two, if that somehow did happen, I think it would be even more unlikely that it would be effective. And three, if it was somehow effective, I think it would be even more unlikely that some government wouldn't just say not for us and do it anyway. All right.

40:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The only, the only thing that gives me hope is that we have Geneva conventions, we have a United Nations. They are imperfect, they're 100% and, yes, weapons of mass destruction and chemical weapons are still used to this day, but, but there's but that we've done something to slow them down a little bit, and I feel like at least something like that, a convention, and maybe that you know, look, I'm a cynical is the next guy. I agree with you, it seems unlikely, but you know, I I think AI at this point. And now here's the next question. Well, I was going to take a break, but I have one more question Is AI progressing at a rate sufficient to be a threat in the next 10 to 20 years?

40:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
If you turn today, you can ask AI how to make a bio weapon or how to make a new bomb or how to make a whatever, and it could welcome up with an answer that may be practical.

41:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know.

41:02 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Could you use it to that way?

41:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, only a human could. Yeah, but let's yeah. By the way, leonardo da Vinci did invent.

41:10 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Da Vinci, we're going to do it. I looked for the wrong.

41:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What? What did you type, oh?

41:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I typed Michelangelo, I sure typed Da Vinci, and so what I got was the weapons. I got the mutant digital.

41:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I love it here from Mad Hatter and our IRC catastrophic AI harms. Amongst warnings and declaration, this is the Blechle, blechle declaration 28 nations, the first day of their trying to blame technology.

41:38 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Technology is the least of it. It's bad actors, it's humans, it's humans. That's the whole point of my next book.

41:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Maybe we should just regulate humans out of the whole picture Could be good.

41:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It does kind of make sense that the humans would say oh no, it's not us, it's the AI. Anthropic is there.

41:56
Deep mind is there. Ibm, meta, microsoft and video open, ai intent they're all there. Elon is there. China is there. Kamala Harris is there they're all there. This is where you could have those accords. Unfortunately, you know, they're not with that bunch. No, elon Musk, I mean at the summit, said, quote for the first time, we have a situation where there's something that's going to be far smarter than the smartest human. It's not clear to me we can actually control such a thing. He thinks he's the smartest human.

42:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
which is that equation, by the way?

42:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But this is exactly the wrong thinking. This is the thinking that we can't control it, it's its own thing, and it's it's. Maybe this is our last chance as humans to say oh yeah, wait a minute, we're the ones we're in charge, but you've got 60 minutes has to have on someone other than Jeffrey Hinton.

42:54 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They have to have on Timnit Gebru.

42:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I'm hoping that maybe Hinton what I was thinking is, maybe Hinton had already gone through this thought process of mine. Benito, you wanted to say something.

43:03 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
My question is how effective do you think like an international accord would be? I mean, we have like the Paris Accords and stuff like that, but that hasn't done anything for the environment.

43:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know no, but you're right. I mean, look, it's the only tool we got. We also had salt talks. Remember the strategic arms limitation talks under Reagan? That actually did kind of make the world a safer place. We have the Geneva Accords that prevent the use of biological chemical weapons torture, they're not perfect.

43:32 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's norm setting, it's norm setting. It tries to set a line. It's the international purposes of accountability, exactly the international community is saying no physical way it's going to stop it. But you can point to it and say are you doing that really? We said we shouldn't, it's all we got. Yeah.

43:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean, what else are you going to do? It's all we got until the aliens come and spank us. That might be our last, best hope. Maybe just you know.

43:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I mean you're going to laugh at this, but it's actually the kind of thing that the World Economic Forum raises. What Really? Yeah, it is because they bring the government of people together and they sit them down and they, and because they want to be in the mountains, they want to eat the nice hors d'oeuvres and the nice cheese, they'll sit through these kinds of discussions. Oh, not the alien part, the other part, the other public discourse, oh yeah.

44:22 - Paris Martineau (Host)
When has the World Economic Forum really produced anything valuable to society?

44:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm not arguing at all Paris, I agree, but what Leo's saying, I think, is that we need this in public discourse. I think so.

44:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And we need to really say this is where the danger lies.

44:37 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think that it would be notable and helpful if we had a large government body throughout the world pushing these sort of reforms or at least bringing this to people's attention on a regular cadence. That can't be understated.

44:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And the only thing I really wanted to say is I had the epiphany. It's not the AI, it's the people, the humans, and we need to stop blaming AI and start saying it's not the AI, it's what we do with it and humans stop it.

45:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's the same for the internet, which is what I argue in the next book.

45:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It is the same for the internet. It is.

45:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We have to stop thinking that the internet is. We have to start seeing it for what it is, which is a network of humans, period. It's not a technology. This is true of so many technologies. It'd be like still covering. Why do journalists cover the internet as technology? It should be covering it as politics and culture. Taylor Lorenz is one of the few who really does that in the popular press, and Paris has people.

45:37
Paris convinced her organization to do feature stories, to start to look at this as a question of human interest rather than technological interest. That's what we need to be doing. That's the context to which we need to understand all this technology. And the same thing happened with radio and TV and so on. It was seen first. The first moral panics about TV were what's the screen doing to your eyes and your brain? It was about the technology, not about the content. But at some point the technology receded to the background and we realized that it's what we were making with it that mattered, and that's what this discussion needs to be, and forgive me if I itself are grandizing, but I do think.

46:17
There's the siren coming to get you, Leo.

46:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I do think that we in the tech media, right now at least, we're talking to people, especially young people, who will be developing these technologies in years to come. So I think it's somewhat incumbent on us to say hey, don't forget, it's not the technology, it's not the issues, the people, and it's how the people use it. Don't forget that.

46:39
This is also, if I may give you one more point, and you need to be responsible when you get to the point where you're starting to implement this stuff, and you're Robert Oppenheimer, you need to remember that part.

46:49 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So this comes down to humanities, and what I wanted to do at the school I'm leaving and what I hope to do at another school, is to start a degree in internet studies, which is about just that to bring in the humanities, anthropology, history, ethics, design into this discussion more than technology, that's fascinating yeah.

47:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I mean, you know, look, it's hard. It's easy to be hopeless, but despair is the biggest enemy.

47:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So let's let's do what we can. You gotta get a dream. I went back to sleep. I didn't get worried about the world. Actually, it was just was.

47:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Did you write it?

47:28 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
down, or you remembered it, I remembered it. Wow, that's impressive yeah.

47:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And meanwhile, Yuval Norrell Harari, who I like I like his books, I read his books says AI is an alien threat that could wipe us out, but instead of coming from outer space, it's coming from California. You see, this crap, all this crap, it's coming from California. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take a break so fun to have Paris Martino from the information here.

47:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
There's something going on A little less depressed than when we started the beginning of this conference.

48:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think the monstera is reflecting upon you in a good fashion. Wow, thank you.

48:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
We're just trying to keep it at bay. We're going to not upset it.

48:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And that's really important to me. Jeff.

48:14 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Jarvis from the alien right there in her apartment. It's going to come to her computer from inside the world the house that's it.

48:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's the original artificial intelligence. Is this big plant?

48:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yes, I'm sure they brought to you by, by the way, and has the week off. He'll be back next week. Our show today brought to you by HID global. Reduced risks, operating costs and complexity. How? By outsourcing public key infrastructure operations to HID globals.

48:46
Cloud based PKI as a service model. It provides automated management of the complete certificate life cycle and encryption. It's your one stop shop for simplifying private and public key PKI management with one predictable price on one easy to use platform. Your simple subscription plan has no additional charges for additional certificates under your current plan. It's geographically dispersed. It's scalable architecture across multiple regions. Hid global goes wherever AWS is easier procurement pains.

49:19
With HID global, you get up and running in two weeks. You get that's much quicker than the competitors. You get their assistance with deployment. It always includes their incomparable white glove service, their expertise, their knowledge. This is what they do. This is their thing. Plus, you'll receive ownership of private keys for Google and Mac systems. Hid connector model of PKI uses open source certificate utilities so your organization can use multiple operating systems, which is great for BYOD. All you got to do is visit HIDlinktwig, see how it works, see what it can do for you, hidlinktwig. We thank them so much for their support of this week in Google. You support us too when you go to that address HIDlinktwig. Let's see, let's go. Google has come up with an interesting idea. I can't decide whether to do the earbuds or the blimp. This is good technology. This is sweet technology.

50:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think we should all go back to blimps generally.

50:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I agree, and so does Sergey Brin. He got FAA approval for his initial flights of his airship, the Pathfinder 1. This is actually a 40% scale down model of the actual Pathfinder. To reassure you, it is a helium filled blimp, not hydrogen. The Pathfinder 1 is 124 meters long. If you live in our area, if you live in Silicon Valley, you'll be able to see it. Just drive around in Mountain View because he's using one of the old airship hangars in Moffat Field. You know those giant hangars. If you ever drive down 101, you see them and he's rented it and that's where they have constructed the Pathfinder 1. The FAA says you can fly it within the boundaries of Moffat Field and neighboring Palo Alto's airport spaces at a height of up to 1500 feet, which means basically they can go out.

51:35
Well, yeah, I mean they don't want to get in the way of traffic, air traffic, but it can go out to San Francisco Bay. It just won't because there's an airport there, right there in San Jose. What does one?

51:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
use a blimp for then, just to hang out.

51:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm glad you asked.

51:50 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Cargo. There have been a lot of businesses. There was one big one that started in Germany. Cargo lift that was trying to imagine the blimp is able to move very large cargo pieces. Yes, at a very low cost.

52:03 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What is that what Sergei Brin is using it for? Yes, cargo the gondolas.

52:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
For the airship that they're using can accommodate 14 people. So it's not exactly a passenger vessel, but, as I said, it's smaller than the original. I mean the one there, the Pathfinder three, which is 180 meters long. But eventually, here's what the story in the IEEE Spectrum magazine says. Ultimately, lta that's the name of the company intends its aircraft to be used for humanitarian missions, deploying cargo and personnel to areas that are inaccessible by road. Brin funds a separate nonprofit called Global Support and Development that's already carried out such missions by C and the Caribbean, latin America, south Pacific, unformed GSD after using his own yacht to ferry medical personnel to the scene of a cyclone in South Pacific Get on the yacht, boys, we're going to the cyclone. The nonprofit has since used other vessels in partnership with the yacht aid global Yachts to the rescue to respond to hurricanes and other disasters. Hey, if you've got a yacht, you might as well use it. Gsd also recently launched that's how we got the Brits out of Europe Yachts, oh yeah, they weren't exactly yachts.

53:17
They were more like little fishing vessels, but GSD also launched a purpose built vessel capable of transporting dozens of medical staff in full size shipping containers. The MV motor vessel Dawn carries his own watercraft and vehicles. This is what happens when you have an infinite amount of money.

53:35 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Money.

53:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You read a lot of sci-fi, you got some free time, but in a way you know where else is this crazy innovation going to come from.

53:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
The crazy innovation of blimps blimps.

53:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think this is a great idea.

53:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
People hadn't been thinking of those clearly before Sergey Brin. Well, okay, money's going to a great use. I know humanity.

53:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I know, you know and, of course, immediately on Reddit, everybody's talking about the Hindenburg. Hi, this isn't the Hindenburg.

54:03 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Defensive blimps yes, I am.

54:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I am on the side of blimps for good BFG.

54:12 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I wrote on the good of your blimp, did you? It's quite noisy out here. Yes, it is. My great uncle worked on the good of your blimp.

54:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, that's fun, I've always wanted to go. What does one do on the good of your blimp?

54:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He was a mechanic.

54:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He just fly around. It's more like a big billboard it's advertising.

54:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's a billboard now, and it's also a sports camera.

54:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh yeah, I mean in its role as an advertisement for good here. Yes, I'm not going to say that. This is a lot bigger than that. This is an airship. There is sci-fi, was it Neil Gaiman? No, it was Neil Stevenson In his book Terminal Shock. Had the millionaires rode around on blimps? Yes, it was slower, but it was much more luxurious. That's how they, and it was, by the way, eco-friendly.

55:07 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Yeah, I was going to say that's also Kim Stanley Robinson who wrote Ministry of the Future.

55:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, Ministry of the Future. Have you read that? I have. Yes, I'm hesitant because it's about how we will deal with climate change and I felt like it might be a little depressing. It's kind of dark. Yeah, the beginning of this Okay, the beginning, but eventually blimps. Yeah, it's basically the solution for you, so it will also yeah.

55:32 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, what's interesting is it'll have, it'll be able to do VTOL Vertical blimp has a very slow up and down. This can go up straight, up and down. Which? Is a big deal 120 kilometers per hour max speed. Yeah, it's not a jet.

55:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But that's not slow. It's faster than you could drive. Take you two days to get across the country.

55:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It'd be nice two days, but it'd be nice two days.

56:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'd take the train if I could. Termination shock yeah, that's the name of the book. Wouldn't it be nice to take the train?

56:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It would be lovely to just do a cross country. I mean, you can kind of piece parts of it together.

56:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
but Amtrak and when I was a kid, in 1971, when we moved to California, we flew to Chicago but then took the train from Chicago to Oakland and it was wonderful. How long does that?

56:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
take I sleep.

56:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It was about two and a half days, three days Stops a lot. We had a dog, our dog, with us, so we would stop in Wyoming and you'd get out and you'd walk the dog, you'd get to look around and get back on the train. It was really. It was a wonderful trip. I'll never forget it.

56:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
My mother was frightened of flying. So when we went to Disneyland the first time we took the train out Nice and on the way back she said screw it, we're flying, it is lengthy yeah.

56:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, for the longest time I had the dream of taking the Trans-Siberian Railway all the way across, but obviously that's not going to happen anymore, or at least not in the foreseeable future. But it seems so fantastic.

57:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know there is a similar ride across Canada that I have been dying to do. That's supposed to be wonderful. I wanted to do that too. Yeah, Leo on fire.

57:16 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Leo, I've got it. Should we do our shows from it? Yes, instead of this cruise crap. Yeah, I'll come on a train, the twit train. Cute cute. This is. Leo is going to have a little, a little conductor's hat on. I like this.

57:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You can attach the microphones to your train car yeah.

57:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And then Canadian train vacations. You can ride via, via and look at this, it's beautiful. We could do the show right there. Oh, that's true. Yeah, leo, I'm telling you, and in the background you're chuk chuk, chuk, chuk, chuk, chuk, chuk chuk.

57:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I took a train across Norway this last year.

58:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It was phenomenal. I've done that. I've done that through Bergen right To Oslo. Yeah.

58:05 - Paris Martineau (Host)
To Oslo, to Bergen. It was the most beautiful train ride I've ever been on. I love the tick. It's a day I don't know like half a day.

58:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, it wasn't that long, it was like eight hours. But you go through the land of Hoth. Did you know that? Did you know that, hoth? So after you leave Bergen, you're going through. We were there in the winter. It's very snowy and that's where they shot, which episode I can't remember Empire. Empire strikes back. The land of Hoth is a snowy land and they shot that there. So you go through it. Pretty exciting. I didn't see any ACAC at that.

58:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I really want to go back in the winter.

58:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's beautiful. My wife was less than happy with it.

58:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Pretty cold.

59:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We were going from Christensen, which is all on the west coast, back to Oslo so we could come home. We were there for a photographic kind of event and we were invited to speak and so forth. And we went thanks to Michael Olin, my good friend with Catherine Hall, the photographer, and we were on the east coast. So we took the Hurtigrutin from Christensen to Bergen. The Hurtigrutin is not exactly a cruise ship. It goes in all the fjords. It's a boat. It is a boat and it goes and it's overnight. You have a little cabin. So we took the Hurtigrutin, which I'd always wanted to go on.

59:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Did you see the northern?

59:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
lights Did not. It was not that time of year, but unfortunately Lisa was got very sick. Didn't enjoy it, and then see you, wouldn't do that on a train. Well, but then we got off the Hurtigrutin in Bergen and got on the train to Oslo. And it's another eight hours and she was just miserable. It took us two days to get from Christensen to Oslo and she said we could have flown, we'd been there for two days, we could have gone to some parties, but no, you had to go on the Hurtigrutin and the railroad.

01:00:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I want to hear but the Canadian railroad, she's open to that.

01:00:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
She's open to that yeah.

01:00:35 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm telling you the first has any other podcast been done from the rails?

01:00:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm all in. We're going to have to get a lot more members in Club Twit. Oh yeah, like right now.

01:00:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'll pay my way, Guys subscribe to Club Twit so that we can podcast. Yeah.

01:00:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All of this seven bucks your seven bucks month would allow us to do this show on a train.

01:01:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Canadian.

01:01:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Hurtigrutin Just twittv slash club.

01:01:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wait, what was the who's?

01:01:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
the guy who does in a world in a world where two podcasters are on a train.

01:01:16 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That announcer. He owns a train car and would do all of his recording from the train car Are you kidding me. They attached different trains.

01:01:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, you're kidding.

01:01:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, this is correct, I mean.

01:01:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I believe he's passed away Chatroom.

01:01:29 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Who was?

01:01:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
that.

01:01:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, he passed away Don.

01:01:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
LaFontaine yeah, he passed away some some time ago. In a word, how did you come up with that? Huh, because I'm a professional announcer. No, you're going to Google. How did you do it? I just you do his name. Yeah, no, I did. I actually keep track of these guys because I always wanted to be them and I was practicing in a world. I didn't know about the train car. Let's see here.

01:01:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I don't have a good source from this. Actually, what I was talking about last week, dropouttv, the streaming network they have, one of their shows is a kind of like this drinking game. It's kind of like never have I ever. It's called dirty laundry, but in one of the episodes one of the guests was talking about how they used to have to solicit donations for some fancy theater. One of their first jobs is to call Don LaFontaine and ended up talking to him for hours and he explained that he was calling from his train car where he lived and worked. Often it would hook it onto different trains and kind of travel around the world, or America.

01:02:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think you need to write a little bit for Wikipedia because it's not in the Wikipedia.

01:02:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Listen, I'm going to go back and I will. I'll go through one of these ad breaks.

01:02:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Don LaFontaine train car Meet the. Of course, let's see here.

01:02:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I mean that's a wonderful story and honestly I have to up my ante because I was thinking maybe I'd get an airstream and do that, but now I want to train. Oh yeah, Bill Gates.

01:03:05 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, good, on to whatever.

01:03:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Very famously. You know, bill Gates I don't know if he's still done this for years he would have an event where he would bring, you know, not just Warren Buffett to play bridge, but very smart intellectuals and so forth, and they would all go somewhere. Esther Dyson was one of them. They would all go somewhere. Each of them was responsible for giving an evening presentation and they would, you know, it would be an event and they would go somewhere. And one year it was a train across the country. Bill Gates got a series of private train cars and these people all rode this train and did their little lectures at night on the train and apparently Warren and Bill just spent all time playing bridge and one of the cars they just never stopped. But that's another story for another day. All right.

01:03:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, that's a dream. It's a new dream Tonight dream about the train going across Canada through the Rockies, and we're talking about world destruction.

01:04:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What fun.

01:04:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
And Don.

01:04:09 - Leo Laporte (Host)
LaFontaine is on there.

01:04:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, he hits the moral panic button. Yeah, it's a fun time. Yeah. I got a bad feeling about this.

01:04:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
In a world where laughter was king, no in a world Jack.

01:04:32 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
One man, no One life is no longer your own. What does that mean?

01:04:37 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
When everything you know is wrong. That's wrong In an outpost, no, on the edge of space.

01:04:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No space. And here is the advertisement for our club Twit All aboard ride. The Twit train rails with Leo and Paris and I guess Ant will have to go Ant can be there. We have to ask Ant yeah.

01:04:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Ant's opted in.

01:04:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, he doesn't have a choice, yeah.

01:05:02 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He's not going to sit windows weekly or anybody else, because it's our idea.

01:05:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
We have a pride interest in this and also the other shows Google. You know you can make a cute little icon for it and the O's and Google could be the train car wheels.

01:05:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh yeah, you can't do that with any of the other shows, that's right. That's right. Actually, funny thing. You should mention that, because in the early days of Google I'm thinking it was, I don't know, 2008, 2005, was a long time ago I went to an event. Sergey and Larry were there and the PR people handle us all Brio trains. That spelled G-O-O-G-L-E. Oh yeah, yeah, you have that, don't you? Still, I thought I did. I was looking for it the other day Somewhere. I might have let the kids play with it and they probably ate it. Google has figured out a way to turn noise-canceling earbuds into heart rate monitors. It's called audioplethosmography. Say that three times fast. Oh, fuck, apg. Because of the blood vessels in your ear, it turns out whatever's in your ear does a lot about you and the hardware that's in there for automatic noise cancellation is or active noise cancellation is a microphone right and some computational capability. It can actually use the same technology to measure your heart rate.

01:06:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah because when you put your head down on the pillow, you hear your heartbeat.

01:06:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Makes sense.

01:06:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, compared to existing heart rate sensors, it's not impacted by skin tones. Ear canal size and suboptimal seal conditions Do not impact accuracy, so Google says this is a better way to measure heart rate. There was a good article in Bloomberg this week actually about Apple focusing on health and really when the Apple Watch first came out, even before, steve Jobs hoped that this would be a health device doing things like blood sugar. But because they were worried about FDA regulation and they couldn't quite get it working, they made this be more about oh, it's your phone's notifications and stuff like that. But over time it's become more of a health device and apparently Apple's getting closer and closer to having it be blood pressure. Maybe next year will be blood pressure.

01:07:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What do you use your Apple Watch for? Mostly.

01:07:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, a lot of stuff. I have a lot of buttons on it. I can unlock my car with that one. I can record Jeopardy with this one, I can text my wife with this button, with this button. Wow everything you need. It's all on here. I can see when my next flight is and whether it's delayed. Oh how do you do any of that All the time. I use this like crazy. It also tracks every I press this button. It'll track my rowing workout. See, it's already doing it, even though I'm not even rowing.

01:07:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wow, you're getting. You know, you're getting fitter by the second.

01:07:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
By the second. I don't even have to row, I just press this button. Um, what else I mean? It's uh, there's nothing that can't do. I actually love my watch. I think there's somebody using the health features. Yeah, the rowing things the health feature keeps track of.

01:08:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean that's like yeah, like the, uh, you know heartbeat or whatever. Yeah, the actual pebble or something.

01:08:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's like you know, uh it, you know it. Yeah, it's like a pedometer. It's a fancy pedometer. No I love my Apple Watch.

01:08:27 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But you know what's funny there? Before you have a, a, uh, a epileptic seizure, there are. There are pre signals that come over someone. My mother was a brittle diabetic since I was born and her her skin would get clammy and we knew she was there.

01:08:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is the reaction, and you know you use a, you use a Cardia. There's this, there's this. You use a Cardia, Absolutely, yeah, For a Fib. Um, it's interesting, though. This I'm going to watch, I'm going to there it is. There's the Cardia. It's now a credit card size device. It'll it does this is.

01:08:56 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I have a Fib. It does an AKG.

01:08:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So this checks my car EKG. It's a, it's a it's a doctor.

01:09:00 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Accepted EKG to my phone. Two months, two leads, ooh.

01:09:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Interesting. Ooh, we learned in the Google trial this Google trial has been a treasure trove of information that uh Apple could have and thought about making all the Apple Watch and all of its apps available on the Android, but decided it would be bad for business, so they didn't. Uh, let me see if I can find that story. I didn't. I don't think I should. I mean they were right. They were right.

01:09:31 - Paris Martineau (Host)
The same thing with why they are keeping green text. It's annoying and I hate it, but they're right.

01:09:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yep, Um yeah, I thought I had to bookmark this. Let's see here somewhere. I don't see it.

01:09:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think you did. It was the top of the run. It's in here, isn't it? Yeah, where is it? I'm looking. I'm looking, the first one, uh yeah, apple Watch faces potential import.

01:09:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's the first one. Google oh, this is the one of Google asking Apple to preload its search app on iOS. Oh Google but Apple said no. But according to the Verge, tim Cook thought about it at least once. How? No idea how they knew that. Maybe they saw an email, I don't know. Uh, senator Pichai was testifying in this Google versus the Department of Justice case, and so there was a lot of good juicy stuff in his testimony.

01:10:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Do you have any sense of how the trial is going?

01:10:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I do not Um this. You know, even if it goes well for Google, these these are always problematic because of so much stuff being revealed and discovery we saw this with Apple and Epic that it's embarrassing for everybody involved. In this case, it's the Department of Justice, so it's not embarrassing for them, but um I I. That's a good question. Is this? I can't remember. Is this a judge only, or is there a jury as well? I can't remember. I can't remember.

01:11:02
So, many trials. I'm so confused. For some reason I think this is a judge only, but I may be wrong.

01:11:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think it is a judge only as well.

01:11:09 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, um, I think they've made a good case. I agree with it somewhat. I don't think there's anything wrong with Google giving Apple, as we've now learned, $18 billion a couple of years ago, and something maybe even more every year since, to be the default search engine. That's a lot of money. But you know, don't doesn't Captain Crunch give grocery stores money to be an end? Exactly. An end cap on the grocery store. I mean I I don't know what would be illegal about that.

01:11:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Okay, I've got an answer. It's a bench trial. It is a bench trial. There's no jury, and you've got a presiding judge that's going to give the final ruling. Along with Pichai, though, google is planning to call at least 10 other witnesses. Yes. And it's supposed to last till the end of November. So we got some, some more updates to give you.

01:12:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There is. You know, the government bears the burden of proof to show Google harmed competition. I'm reading from NPRorg it's case centers on claims that Google illegally orchestrated its business dealings to ensure that it's the first engine people see when they turn on their phones or computers, like paying Apple 18 billion. To me that doesn't. That seems like normal business practice. It's not like you. It's not like you're using your monopoly power to keep others out of the business, or are you? Maybe you are.

01:12:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, an Apple screwed if, if it goes.

01:12:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a lot of money. It's a big percentage of Apple services revenue. Yeah, yeah, a pure profit.

01:12:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Also from just a like this would have profound effects for every other you know company out there that does this. This is a fairly standard practice. I mean, do you think that this would if it came down against Google? Do you think this would have the sort of impact that it would impact things like what we're talking about? Captain Crunch paying to have a higher placement on a grocery shelf.

01:13:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The difference is pretty similar. Yeah, I think the difference is, and the reason it's an antitrust thing is that Google is dominant in the market, right, and did they? Did they create that dominance this way and are they maintaining it this way? I don't know.

01:13:19 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I mean Devil's advocate. I guess the. I guess the the response would be they. They created such an unsurmountable barrier to entry, exactly For any competitor to go to Apple and, in fact, duckduckgoes testifying Microsoft.

01:13:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Satya Nadella was there testifying on behalf of Bing. Nadella said during his testimony everybody talks about the open web, but there's really the Google web. The distribution advantage Google has today doesn't go away. Neva, remember my favorite little search engine that could that I finally had to go out of the business because they couldn't compete against Google. They testified that Google's exclusive deals effectively quashed their potential game market share. And you know, I think there's some point to that.

01:14:02 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well it was, but yeah, Apple's going to drop Google for Neva. No, sorry, I know you loved it, but no, not going to happen.

01:14:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, but maybe if Apple made it. For instance, there's never been a way that I could make Neva the search engine on my iPhone. I had to use a special Neva app to do that.

01:14:26
If Apple could you make other except $18 billion from Google and and at least had a switch in there that would let me choose any other search engine. I think it's fine for them to be the default, but I think that it shouldn't be hard to switch. By the way, that's one of the points of contention. Google says it's easy to switch, you could change the default, and the Department of Justice says not so easy, it's 15 clicks, that kind of thing. I don't know. I don't know where I come down on this. I think I don't know. The other thing NPR says and I agree it's unclear how, if Judge Metta rules in favor of the Justice Department, how he would sanction Google. I mean, how big of a fine can you give them? That would make would hurt them. Do you restructure the company?

01:15:17 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Would they try and yeah, do some sort of restructuring?

01:15:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah it's well, I don't know if that's justified. This is not. I mean, I don't know, and I guess part of what Pichai and Google have been saying is that they've improved the web, and I think that is still essentially true. They made the web accessible. People could be found, things could happen as a result. The connections were possible.

01:15:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There is also and I put this in the show notes as well, let me see if I can find it there was testimony. Google's code yellow in 2019, this is from Bloomberg blurred the line between search and ads. There was a kind of a dispute between the person in charge of search, ben Gomez, who was called by the company its defense to show that there was a Chinese wall between ad sales and search. You know the real. To me, this is the real, fundamental issue Does Google do things to benefit its ad sales in search results? That would be bad right, they should be separated, and Google thinks so too. In fact, as I mentioned before, larry Page, in his original page rank article, said we should never sell ads because that would totally corrupt the results. So Gomez was brought in to testify. But they also brought up an email that Gomez wrote to other executives that his search team was quote getting too close to the money, he wrote. I think it's good for us to aspire to query growth and to aspire to more users, but I think we're getting too involved with ads for the good of the product and the company. He's worried that this division, this line between ad sales and search, is getting weaker and, by the way, I should point out, you know his battle was with Prabhakar Raghavan, who was head of advertising. You know Raghavan said you got to do more to help us. You know ad sales numbers are going down. You got to do more to help us. And Gomez is saying no, well, no, or maybe it might be Gomes, it's probably Gomes. Gomes is saying no. You know, we have to preserve our integrity. The the the final blow in all of this is is Gomez left in 2020 and Raghavan now runs both search and advertising. Oof, oof. Now maybe there's still a good Chinese wall between the two, but you know the same guy's running both and the guy who, in 2019, was saying you got to help us. Uh, raghavan wrote to Gomes asking for a meeting saying the core query softness continues without mitigation. At this rate, the full year plan is a bad miss. The revenue plan will need drastic steps on the query side. You got to help us make more money.

01:18:25
Gomes drafted a response to Raghavan that he shared with other executives acknowledging quote feeling annoyed, both personally and on behalf of the team. He's trying to protect the integrity of search against the ad department. Most headcount he wrote, non-assistant for search has gone into projects that are growth oriented. To the point. I worry we are really not investing in research or speculation adequately. We could increase queries quite easily in the short term in user negative ways, and he gave some examples. You know, if we turned off spell correction, for instance, turn off ranking improvement, there's ways we could make more money, but he didn't want to do that.

01:19:10
Gomes said in his testimony Tuesday he believed this was yesterday that Raghavan was implying Gomes team, the search team, hadn't done enough for the search team. Gomes team, the search team hadn't done enough. But he said Gomes said they would never have taken steps that would negatively impact users, like turning off spell correction. He said he never sent the email, he just he was writing it to get it off his chest. But he did show it to other executives. Gomes and Raghavan met and agreed to stop using queries as a metric, instead creating a new metric that measures groups of queries. But I mean, the judge has got to be left with the impression that you just were Paris and you tell me Raghavan now runs search and ads.

01:19:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's also fascinating. I mean, obviously, in these sort of cases, everything is part of discovery, but it's fascinating to see cases like this, that an email draft is even even that big role yeah.

01:20:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think had he not shown it to other executives to verify that he had written it, it might not have made it into the discovery, but it was too many people had seen it. This is the rule in companies, right? I don't know if it's the rule in your company Erase, erase, erase. No no, don't even put it in writing in the first place. Right, right, right right.

01:20:24 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Can we Donald Trump rule?

01:20:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, can we talk out in the parking lot yeah.

01:20:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean whenever I'm talking to employees at tech companies, I say don't use anything relating to any of your work devices whatsoever.

01:20:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, use that single number at the bottom of the page.

01:20:40 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Okay, use a signal number, but don't use signal on your work, given Google phone. That's an issue. That's a thing that a lot of my colleagues have had to deal with before. And, yeah, shocking.

01:20:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
All right, I want to take a break but we come back more from that trial, including and you never get to see this the most lucrative queries, the most lucrative search queries, but it's as of just one week September 22, 2018, but this was in discovery, so it's the only one we've ever seen. They've never made it public before. In fact, judge Meadow was you know, this was one of the things that Google said please, your honor, can we keep this a secret? And Judge Meadow was going, I don't know finally said you know what this should be public information? And so now we have it. The Verge published it. I will talk about it when we come back. Paris Martin no, jeff Jarvis, you're watching this week in Google, we got Google stuff.

01:21:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
How did that happen? I was saying we got a lot of Google stuff here.

01:21:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I'm so sorry, maybe this is a show about Google. You want to talk about my dream some more.

01:21:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah.

01:21:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Our show today, brought to you by Miro. Now, this is a good solution. In fact, there is a Google tie-in because, as you remember, google killed that jam board, that white board that you would roll around from office to office. They've $5,000 companies paid for it. It's going to be sunsetted, but what did Google tell people? Just use Miro instead. They literally said that, and you know what? It's a lot less than $5,500.

01:22:06
It's the online workspace for innovation. It doesn't have to be in your office. It's somewhere everybody on the team can see it, no matter what time zone they're in, no matter what location. But what is an online workspace for innovation when it's at home? Exactly how can it help you? Well, let me explain.

01:22:23
Miro is one incredible, visual, very important place that brings all your innovative work together, no matter where you're located, and it's packed. You can use it for a lot of things, but it's packed with the right things, for example, to be your dream product's home base, just for that alone. We're talking six whole capability bundles, from product development workflows to content visualization, all powered by Miro AI. Now, this is a good use of AI, especially for brainstorming. Coming up with thoughts and ideas prompts. You're generating new ideas, you're summarizing oh, it's a great thing for that to happen. Oh, it's a great thing for that to take existing information and summarize it pretty much instantly. That AI is amazing.

01:23:08
Miro can work for any team, but product development teams really get the full experience. It offers teams the richest feature set of any visual workspace, with specific tools to help with strategy or process mapping, facilitation tools to run effective design or agile sprints, and on and on. You get the picture. Miro connects super seamlessly the platforms you're already using. We use Jira it works with Jira Confluence. We use Google. We use Google Docs. We use Zapier it works with Asana.

01:23:34
You get central and on and on. I mean there's literally dozens of integrations. You can centralize your work in a way that makes sense for your team. They don't need to leave Miro to update projects or statuses in any of these tools. You do it all through Miro. It means you have a single source of truth that's there day or night, any time of the day, any time of the night. So it's really a great way for your team to stay in the right place, your team to stay in touch, to stay on top of it. In fact, you can even have your team deliver comments asynchronously with a new feature called TalkTrack. It's a board video recording feature, pre-recording your thoughts. Leaving it on the board instead of scheduling yet another meeting, is a great way to work together, to collaborate. It is a massive time saver. I mean, just eliminate those meetings alone is huge.

01:24:24
Miro users reported saving up to 80 hours a year that's two weeks a year per user by streamlining conversations, cutting down on meetings and really what's most useful, seeing the single source of truth, the most up to date information all in one place. You don't have to go from tool to tool. You know you're seeing it all right there. I'm not surprised Google suggested people turn to Miro to replace their jam boards. It's better. Go on, try it out for yourself. It's your first three boards for free to start working better.

01:24:54
Mirocom slash podcast. And there's no little wobbly wheel on the bottom that goes bububububub as you're rolling your board around. Everybody can see it. Miro, I'm joking. Miromirocom slash podcast. Thank you, miro, for supporting this week in Google. They got a great product. We use it ourselves. So this week the Verge writes during the US versus Google antitrust trial, we got a rare glimpse at a closely guarded secret which search terms make the most money. Now, admittedly, this is five years ago. This is from 2018. The list is ordered by revenue and nothing else. The Verge says still, we've never seen anything quite like this before. The top 20 queries Again. Remember five years ago? Number one moneymaker iPhone eight. Number two iPhone eight plus. Okay, so when people search for iPhone eight, they will see ads for cases, maybe for iPhones, maybe for different sellers. Then those ads make Google money, in fact, the most money that week. Auto insurance was next followed by car insurance. So that makes sense. When people search for insurance, they're searching to find a company.

01:26:12 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So those ads, I still watch old fashioned TV and the number of insurance ads. Big money. Why on MSNBC?

01:26:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh. God it just never ends.

01:26:20 - Paris Martineau (Host)
But don't try to get, I do think it's interesting that it iPhone eight and iPhone eight plus are at the top, because that indicates to me that it's just people searching for the iPhone because they want to buy it, because it just came out that week, and they're just clicking the first search result and so Apple's having to pay for that.

01:26:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, what is that I?

01:26:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
mean this list. This week, when this list came out, is it's the weekly.

01:26:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Iphone came out. It's really yes, September 22nd yeah.

01:26:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
People who are searching for an iPhone eight or iPhone eight plus want to buy that. It's dumb that Apple has to buy an ad to get people to click on their website so that they can buy the product they're searching for. But that's how.

01:27:01 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let me ask you and Lisa a question. Leo, because I mean?

01:27:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
you mean Paris or my?

01:27:06 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
wife. No, no, no, your wife.

01:27:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, when I Lisa's here, but okay, well, okay, I'll channel her. Channel her, channel her, yes.

01:27:16 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Carnact, the magnificent Something in Paris, has no idea what that means. When I search for Twitter on Google, we buy ads. Yeah, why do you buy it on your Twitter? Because you are the first organic response.

01:27:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's an interesting question.

01:27:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't get any ads when I search for Twitter on Google, but maybe it's because I don't. I get a sponsored ad.

01:27:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I just searched Twitter.

01:27:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I just get Twitter a silly or foolish person and then get that to you. Great.

01:27:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Very good.

01:27:50 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That seems right.

01:27:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's what.

01:27:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I get the ad.

01:27:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, we must be trying to get you. We do buy Google ads.

01:27:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I was just saying you must be in the demographic.

01:27:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't know what our budget is. I don't. I try not to, I try not to ask, but we do have a marketing budget and I don't get involved because if for me I would say we don't need to advertise, for me I would have no marketing department at all. I would say there is only one thing we should spend money on, which is making the best content we can, and then people will just find us. But that's why I didn't do so. Well, until Lisa came along. I guess we do have a marketing department. I, yeah, it's. I just I'm not a big marketing. I have a question for you guys.

01:28:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, are you ever swayed by, let's just say, google search ads? Do you guys want pay attention to Google search ads? Do you notice when they are there? Do you notice that they are different from Google search results, and do you click on them?

01:28:53 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Jeff Depends on whether I like the company or not. If I really like the company, I won't cost the money.

01:28:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I do the same thing. I'll go down to the organic result Instead of clicking the ad because it's gonna cost him.

01:29:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I don't like the company. If it's Verizon, I'm clicking on the ad again and again.

01:29:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, this is also I feel about display ads to is I one. I don't think about them at all and I don't click on them because I don't want. This is how I think about Instagram ads. If I see something I like on an Instagram ad, do not click on it. I will search on a different browser or I'm worse than that.

01:29:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I will actively close my eyes, I Skip it. I do that on Twitter too. So as I'm scrolling through Twitter, up in the upper right hand corner where there's an ad, it'll say add. And as soon as I see that I I don't look at it, I quickly scroll past it like says ad there, I don't look at that, I go next one, I Actively, and that's I should say that we're at the bikinis. Leo, it would help. I do. I close my eyes.

01:29:55
Well, maybe I was reading the copy for each one of those ads on Twitter to your ears, you'd be into it there's one ad that Constantly comes up on Twitter Twitter has really become the place for AI and crypto bros is one ad that says I don't know anything. There's one ad I see it every all the time. It says I don't know, I'm an idiot when it comes to AI, but my boss thinks I'm brilliant. Click I Like because I read click I Skip that one anyway. Auto insurance Okay, number one, two, three, four, five, cheap flights. That makes sense. And this is, by the way. I think this, this piece of Evidence, really is for Google to say we put ads next to E-commerce searches, that when somebody's searching for something, it makes us the most money. When we put an ad next to that, car insurance quotes, direct TV this is the rest of my online colleges AT&T, hulu, iphone. So it's iPhone 8, iphone plus and then a lower down iPhone.

01:31:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So when people type an iPhone, paris to your, to your theory, are they just lazy and type it in, or do they want reviews? They don't want to go to Apple or they want you.

01:31:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
But I I would have thought that it would have been reviews or something more. I don't know that the query was more interesting than that, but based on the fact that these are the highest revenue generating search terms, I assume they're clicking on iPhone, which the first thing that's coming up on the weekend iPhone launch is has to be Apple right.

01:31:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I'll tell you my theory For most browsers. Now that you don't go to Googlecom and do a search, you type it right up here in the address bar. Right, you just type iPhone.

01:31:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, let's also talk it's. You don't do it there, you do it on mobile or on mobile, same thing.

01:31:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But let me just let me just finish my theory. That's not because you want to do a search. It's good you want to go, you know when. I I'll never forget going into Yahoo and the number one they have. They remember this. They used to have a list on the lobby of the top searches. The number one search was Google People. You got to remember how people work and watch people watch. You know, we're technology focused, we care about this more. Watch out people. They type the thing they want. They type. They don't type yahoocom, they type yahoo. They don't type Googlecom. They type Google. They don't type Applecom. They type iPhone Because they know and they do it in the address bar because they don't know what the address is. They know that the first result I just did it for iPhone is gonna be the Apple site and they click that and I Think that's how now no, but I think that's how people use the browser.

01:32:49
So I think that the top searches are People who just don't. We don't, nobody types in a URL, you don't. Even you don't type. Calm Well.

01:33:01 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I don't know as colon slash slash. I put in and, and it fills up New York Times. I put in th, and it fills up the Guardian.

01:33:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
W Washington Post same thing for me.

01:33:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I type and then I get Neva comm Is wild to me that this many people are searching cheap flights. That is a it's a baffling thing to search to me. I mean not that I don't like cheap flights, but I've never thought of just typing in the words Cheap flights.

01:33:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Have you ever?

01:33:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Search engine.

01:33:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Have you ever typed Thai restaurants near you? Is that one of the top ones?

01:33:38 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Do you ever do that? You're doing a different story, sorry. Do you ever do?

01:33:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
that Paris where you type I do that all time I'm at a place I don't, I type breakfast near me.

01:33:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah right, I guess I'd put that in Google Maps, but yeah oh, you're doing your browser.

01:33:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I would type, I'll just put food or you don't even type it in.

01:33:56 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You go, or or parents. I go to Google Maps Breakfast near me and I say near me, right yeah yeah, near me button.

01:34:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Look, I hop Denny's jack in the box. I didn't even go to a browser, that was a really classy place.

01:34:10 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They're all literally just around the corner. What was I telling you to go visit? Maybe not?

01:34:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
so there are places there are dentists, there are notaries, there are plumbers, there are restaurants who have named their business Near me. This is Thai food near me, which I'm gonna bet is probably in Brooklyn, but I don't know. Teddy Jiripawa, no, no, no. One of four owners thought back to his own experience using Google to find restaurants. Everywhere I go. He says I'm cramming Thai food. I have to search Thai food near me all the time, so he named his New York based restaurant Thai food near me. It is brilliant, but it probably doesn't work.

01:34:59
Danny Sullivan, who's the search engine liaison now at Google, formerly of search engine land and Until he started working for the dark side of regular on our show, says there are many businesses like this. It probably doesn't help. There is. This is from a great article in the verge, by the way, good enterprise reporting from Miyasato said you know, I Wonder if there are other places like this. She, she says among the businesses, I was able to find a chain of half a dozen affordable dentists near me in Texas, antiques near me just outside of the city, seven plumbers near me, businesses, a phone repair near me in Cape Cod, a psychic near me in Chicago and more than 20 notary near me across the US.

01:35:47
She talked to a guy named Felix Silver her named his barbershop in Coral Springs, florida barbershop near me. But Danny says yeah, you know, I got to be honest with you. We it's the name is not the most important part in the near me search. He says, actually, you know, we consider where you are, among other things and reviews. So Amiya asked Danny, does it actually bump your restaurant up among its nearby competitors? I doubt it, says Danny. No, I doubt it. Owners doing this might find success. But Google pulls in other data to serve results to users, like locations, reviews or ratings, quote hodgepodge of different things we have that are out there.

01:36:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So I mean, it reminds me of the tech, like I, a couple of years ago, was looking for an exterminator. I think I piped in exterminators near me. Yes.

01:36:48
Google maps. There were quite a few in my neighborhood, so I brought the little mystery bug I had in a bag over to one of them. Oh, it's a, you know it's a monster. I see if you know like it. And then I was like, okay, well, this one doesn't exist. I was gonna go to the next one. Oh, it's a. You know live. Wait a minute. None of them actually existed in real they were made up.

01:37:10
Were. No, they were real exterminators in the New York metro area that had Decided to squat on certain Locations in Google Maps.

01:37:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
How does that help the?

01:37:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
order to know, so that people like me would look that up.

01:37:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They didn't expect you to go there.

01:37:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They thought you'd call me to bring a bug to their location.

01:37:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They didn't want me to.

01:37:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Some folks about it and yeah, it's the same thing, it's a like growth hacking technique so here's, here's a weird.

01:37:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So I looked up at our, our big mall nearby, so it's chains and the Mexican restaurant there is Uncle Julio's. So I typed in Uncle Julio's, bridge water. What came up? The first three listings. The first one is headlined Mexican food near me, bridge water, and Jay, it's there. There you are L. The next one is menu, limited, bridge one. The next one is tacos and margaritas near me, in bridge water, and it's there. You are all going directly. Wait me there, you're on that taco near me Near you are all.

01:38:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, no, no.

01:38:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm saying the headline says tacos margaritas near me in bridge water in Jersey, but the the listing is to their URL.

01:38:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, yes because, yeah, cuz Google. That's not them, that's. That's Google saying well, he's here's where you are and here's, it's actually smart enough not to be fooled, in other words, by the restaurant's name, unlike Paris Martino who brought a bug to a taco shop.

01:38:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, it didn't turn out to be bed bugs, though, so that's a relief.

01:38:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What was it I? Don't remember it was a mystery Plant was like, isn't that?

01:38:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
scary though, don't you? It was terrifying.

01:38:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I had just moved into, so it was the apartment me, a mattress, a bug Nightmare, lisa doesn't want to go to Paris speaking of Paris anymore cuz of the stories that there's bed bugs. You know where those stories came from. I haven't told her this yet. I haven't told her this yet.

01:39:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Russian disinformation. Yeah, what really? Yeah, wow, I got fooled.

01:39:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Me too, and so did Lisa. What's behind this is from yellow pages, calm. What's behind Paris's bud, big bug, panic and not Paris Martino, paris, france. The outbreak ahead of the Olympics likely do this is, this is their. If this is a story where they fell, for it, let me find the yeah, I.

01:39:45 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Got got.

01:39:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You got God. I think we all got God.

01:39:51 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, I saw stories about Parisians going nuts for no reason. I saw that in the middle. Yeah, first was the oh my god, it's better bugs all over Paris. The next one was well, no, there isn't. And French people are nutty. And now here's the. Well, there's why they're nutty.

01:40:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is from the independent bed bug. Panic could have been spread by Russia. French intelligent Well, maybe consider the sources. French intelligence, I don't know.

01:40:15 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I don't know, maybe you can say that as a guy with a French name. Yeah, I'm too.

01:40:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You know we have two out of three of the hosts on this show are French Jeff true, we're coming for you, yeah there was a.

01:40:28 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
There was a Border guard in Canada who said that your name are like everything else. It was in Quebec. They've the English ruin your name. It should be Jervais ooh, but actually my name should be Riley. Oh, if my great-grandfather had made my great-grandmother an honest woman, as they said in the day, my name would be Riley.

01:40:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So the stories of blood-sucking critters Were fake news stories for the most part, that were then shared across social media. Kind of brilliant by Russian military, let's get the French.

01:41:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, perfect right.

01:41:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah fantastic.

01:41:10
Part of the reason. Is this not what you would expect? The most commonly used anti-bed bug agent in furniture and wood materials is made in Russia. No, and that do no. And that due to sanctions imposed on the substance because of the invasion of Ukraine, spraying had stopped. So that that led to story. Sanctions against Russia have led to epidemics of bed bugs in Paris, but and and it was claimed that this came from a Newspaper called la montaña la montaña said no, we never published such an article, those were forged. So these are forged articles which were Apparently spread by Russian social media groups. Maybe they, maybe they want to increase sales of you never, you'll never show that those sanctions you're getting punished.

01:42:04 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Speaking of getting got, I did you guys see going around Twitter this week the courtroom sketch of I can only describe it as hot Sam Bankman freed, kind of a An.

01:42:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Impossibility, an impossibility.

01:42:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I've posted a screenshot of one of the tweets in the chat. In the discord live chat there were a lot of different memes going around with the court sketch on the right. What some might describe as Chad SPF, and it really took off as far as a meme format.

01:42:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is a great post from Sophie, who is netcap girl on Twitter. The actual picture of Sam bankman freed net income and the and the and the courtroom. This is the actual sketch from the courtroom no.

01:42:51 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I got got. It's not AI or something that's hysterical. It's taken off everywhere.

01:42:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's very funny because she says net income, the real picture, adjusted to be the hot picture. I wish that were true. No, I saw. I remember seeing the courtroom sketches. They are not flattering to anyone actually.

01:43:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They make everyone look terrible awful. Yeah, real bad.

01:43:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That is not, by the way, that trial is not going well for him, or Michael Lewis, I Feel yeah. Michael, of course, wrote going infinite the book about Sam bankman freed, which essentially became an apology Apology for you know, saying, oh, he was just misunderstood. Well, I don't know if he was misunderstood, his own testimony in the trial that's not did not encourage. So I think he's, I think he's gonna I don't know, but I think he's gonna get the book thrown against him. Here is the. This is this is the actual, really hot oh. Good luck and fellow cave painting.

01:44:02 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I love that it says Bitcoin coming out of there, you know it's a story.

01:44:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It looks like that painting. Remember when the French woman decided to fix the damaged fresco?

01:44:14 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it looks like the messed up painting of Jesus Christ exactly, but that's really funny that Michael Lewis, the author of that rather flattering Sam Bakeman Friedbook, is sitting in the SPF friends and family box at the courtroom. He's not sitting with the journalists in the press box.

01:44:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here's another fake right. Here's the fake sketch of SPF and the actual courtroom sketch of his girlfriend who testified against him, which was? I remember seeing this and thinking that poor woman that is so unflattering. These sketches are hideous. It's an accurate picture actually. Oh, come on, she was not Okay. Yeah, she doesn't look bad. Bad day, yeah, yeah.

01:45:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think that is an artist interpretation of her mood, probably in the courtroom.

01:45:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is from Slate, a little sketch sketched out the courtroom. Sketches from SPF's crypto scandal aren't just dolly level weird, they're the best part of the trial. This is Jane Rosenberg of Reuters, who's doing these sketches. You know, in her defense you got to be quick. You know what I love the sketches on the screen, wow.

01:45:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I love that.

01:45:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I want this to hang on the wall, to be honest.

01:45:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
When I covered the chat GPT lawyer hearing, there was a sketch artist there. I never saw it get out in the news but it's great she has a. You know the jury boxes empty so she gets the best seat in the jury box and gets there and perfectly privileged about how to do it. It's kind of fun to watch, yeah.

01:46:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
How long do you think she has to do this? This is pretty quick, right. Yeah. Yeah, maybe we can get Jane on the show. The art Do you want your own? You should get your own sketch.

01:46:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, that one Would you be all right with the results, if they're that horrifying.

01:46:22 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
We want the guilty Leo look, yes, I bet you're shamed and guilty.

01:46:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I bet we could get mid-journey to do one of those.

01:46:31 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh well, I think right now you're going to speak in the chat.

01:46:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I might even get a sticker, yeah.

01:46:38 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It might well be happening.

01:46:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We never got through all 22 of the, but I think you got the idea. Insurance is in there a lot. Yeah, yeah.

01:46:47 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I was surprised, frankly, at how boring most of those searches were, or all of those searches were.

01:46:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think they're there to confirm Google's point of view, which is look we don't mess up our search results for advertising. Only a small fraction of our search results have ads on them, and they're almost always this style e-commerce search. That's where we make our money. Oh, look at this, we do in fact have thank you, burke, the courtroom sketch of Leo On acid.

01:47:18 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Somebody said this the magic mushrooms view.

01:47:22 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's Leo dreaming, yeah.

01:47:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, that's your dream.

01:47:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I had a dream Oofa, yeah, where do? We keep this now Far away from you. Far, far away, thank you, In a closet somewhere. Yeah, why just leave? It there Sure. Last week it was Jeff's beautiful picture. Now this week it's great A multimedia experience. Kerm sketch. Oh, did you see that we work going chapter 11 tomorrow.

01:47:51 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, yeah, wow, what a ride, what a ride. The stock is down.

01:47:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, shockingly I saw Bloomberg headline that says we work filed for bankruptcy Stock slumps and I was like, ooh yeah, who would?

01:48:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
have guessed. Wow, well, when they you know what? That is a surprise, because didn't it go up when they announced hey, we're not doing that. Well, it went up. I remember that.

01:48:15 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You think it would be bought or something you know what I mean.

01:48:19 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think it's because retail traders are a bit wild, it was a stunk.

01:48:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
X launches two new subscriptions. We now have three, actually four tiers of subscriptions to Elon Musk's S Premium Plus. Premium plus you get premium, which is the blue check, for $8. Premium plus, which is $16. And then there's $3 basic subscription. Who would get a $3 basic subscription, any of them? And then there's the $1 not a bought subscription, which he's testing out.

01:48:58 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let me ask you both a question. When you see someone's verified on Twitter, what do you think of them?

01:49:05 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Less.

01:49:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yes, I think you're a sucker. I think you paid Elon eight bucks for that check, and why?

01:49:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So being able to write longer, well, there's benefits, I guess.

01:49:16 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I see colleagues or like peers in the media use it so that they can DM people. But I'm not sure that being able to cold DM people is that useful.

01:49:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I got the calling feature. By the way, I'm waiting for somebody to call me. I got it.

01:49:32 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Where do you see it?

01:49:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It just popped up. A couple of days ago I went to Twitter and there's a pop up saying would you like to turn that on, harris? Do you have it?

01:49:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean I also got the pop up. I didn't read it though.

01:49:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, that was the pop up, so you're getting offered.

01:49:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't need anyone calling me through Twitter.

01:49:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, what I have seen people complain about is that because blue checks and now this whatever this new premium subscription is is gets promoted and replies their replies are just jammed with these horrible blue check people and that's a potential side effect. That's not so good, right, it's a mess. The premium plus builds on the perks that come with X's standard premium plan, formerly Twitter blue, which includes a blue check mark. You should get a different color, but okay. The ability to edit tweets, longer posts, longer video uploads, encrypted direct messages and the quote largest reply boost plus no ads. I wonder, I really wonder, how much money he makes on this. Elon himself has effectively admitted that the value of Twitter has gone down by 50% since he bought it. He bought it More than that, from 44 to 16. 16 billion, and he did that in a stock offering. That's still high, yeah. So here's yeah.

01:50:58 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean, I can't remember what the last tally was of people who subscribed to Twitter blue, but it was low. It was something that was like negligible in terms of the company's overall revenue, which is unfortunate.

01:51:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
How long before the banks come a calling? The, which I think put almost half a billion dollars into Twitter, has has written that amount down to considerably less. Is he paying the payment?

01:51:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think he's paying it. He has to.

01:51:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
If not he's got, he could get foreclosed on Good.

01:51:34 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Let me check what Fidelity is current is for Twitter. I've got a little service that'll do this.

01:51:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, a real reporter here.

01:51:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's very handy to have. It's so nice. Let me know have you done all your research on matter and are you now really up on the matter standard?

01:51:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I thought about it and then I was like I could spend my time doing anything else. Okay.

01:51:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Stacey, by the way, is going to be back tomorrow. Stacey's book club, even though Stacey Higginbotham, our former co-host, has given up podcasting her own podcast as well as this one. She did say you know what I want to keep doing the book club so, and she's doing John Scalzi's Kaiju Preservation Society tomorrow, 9am Pacific. So if you do miss Stacey or you want to know more about matter there, you go 9am tomorrow in the club. Now, if you're not a club member, this is a great opportunity for you to give us $7. It really makes a difference to our bottom line. It's really tough right now in the podcast business. Gimlet is gone. Wnyc has given up on podcasting. I wonder. You know? Joe Rogan's contract will be up soon. They gave him we don't know, we think at least $100 million to be exclusive to Spotify and I'd be interested to see if they continue to give him that kind of money. I'm sure he wants more. All I know is advertising is disappearing, but that's good because it means we can be supported by you, our listeners. We would love that. If you are not yet a member of Club Twits $7 a month you get access to all the special programming we put on Club Twits, not just Stacey's book club, but the untitled Linux show, hands on Macintosh, hands on Windows.

01:53:16
Home Theater Geeks, we did a great escape box event last Thursday. It was so much fun. We've got a fireside chat with Renee Ritchie from YouTube. Former host on MacBreak Weekly, he's now YouTube's creator liaison. He'll be joining us in two weeks, november 16th Jeff and I will be joined by Doc Searles and Steve Gibson for our annual holiday show. You'll be able to see that on the holiday, but you get to watch the taping December 7th, which should be a lot of fun. Go to twittv slash club twit. Join the club. Join the discord. It's a lot of fun in there. We would love to have your support. Thank you in advance. Twittv slash club twit.

01:53:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
At Club Member. He's got to see you guys, not escape a room.

01:54:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Hey, we got out. You made a valiant effort. We got out after an hour and 43.

01:54:05 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Eventually Did you watch that? I watched part of it. Yeah, it was a little long.

01:54:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It went on a little long. Yeah, oh sorry, the book club is next Thursday, did I say? I did say tomorrow it's not tomorrow, it's next Thursday.

01:54:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Tomorrow you can watch AI inside. Unfortunately, I won't be there because I'm recording the book, but always watch.

01:54:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, jason, all his members watch Jason. This is something we can do because of the club members. They give us a chance to expand and create new shows, and so that's appreciated. Yeah, it was fun. It was a box with lots of padlocks on it and stuff from a company that does escape rooms and so this they bring to companies. It was hard, but I think we did. I think we did all right. I think it was fun.

01:54:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It was certainly fun for us. Did any of you guys break Breakdown emotionally?

01:54:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I cried yeah.

01:54:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Nice.

01:54:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
When the hour went by because that's what they, that was the nominal time to escape I really felt like it's over, I give up. Fortunately, none of the other people would give up and I said, all right, all right, we'll keep going. There was some really clever, really clever puzzles in there.

01:55:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I really had a good time. It's a service. They bring you the box.

01:55:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah. So I think, escape rooms, which are now really all over the place, are often used by companies as a team building exercise. I would hate that. It's fun. I think we found out about this one because our continuity department went there for a team building exercise. They had a great time, and so we thought, oh, it might be fun to do one. Well, you have nice people.

01:55:42 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, you have to be a proud team.

01:55:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, you've got to like the team in the first place.

01:55:45 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Yeah, it really depends on the team you're playing with. I used to, when I used to work for, like, video game companies and things like that, we would run through those stuff, those things Like when I worked for GameSpot we went to an hour one and 30 minutes.

01:55:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah. Yeah, we're not so good, but I think if you do that was only the second one I've ever done If you do them a lot, you get better at them, because you kind of understand. It's like the New York Times crossword puzzle it's hard at first, but after you do it for a while it gets easier, right?

01:56:13 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Yeah, there's a little bit of a language to it there's a language to it.

01:56:16 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, there definitely is a language to it. So you've done it too, paris, I've done. I'm trying to find the. I've got a log back into my Google search. I did an escape room about a year or two ago, a really cool high tech one. It's this company that has. At the time it had two. One was you were inside basically a full subway car Like, but it was just on a floor in the middle of midtown and so you had to pull all these stuff, go into different rooms.

01:56:43
The one we ended up doing because my friends had done the subway one before, but I looked at it was essentially you were like almost on a spaceship. It was like a futuristic world and they were all these different panels and things. There was at one point, if you got to a certain point, a laser like a robot with a laser beam came out and you had to hide from the robot before you could get into the next room. It was awesome. Wow. Highly recommend a high tech escape room.

01:57:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, you do fun. You go to mazes and escape rooms and you do fun things.

01:57:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I love, love a little puzzle on interactive.

01:57:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, me too. I like puzzles. Micah Sargent just turned me on to the New York times connections. We all do the wordle and I've done the crossword puzzles for a while. Have you tried the connections yet?

01:57:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, but someone on the subway the other week recommended I do connections, so maybe it's my time.

01:57:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's fun. Well, this is the second time Somebody on the subway, you know, I was.

01:57:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
My mother was in town a couple of weeks ago and I was showing her wordle. She got really into it and I was telling her about the history behind wordle and James Wardell, the guy you know. But someone next sitting next to her on the subway was like oh, yeah, and kind of talking to us about it, and he was like, oh, you should try connections.

01:57:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here I'll show you. This is. This is today's connections, which I have not yet started. So they give you 16 words in this case, well, like um house hem, err darn, follow seam share. Err scrubs, err ratchet, now obviously um err and maybe erm might all go together. You have to figure out. There's four groups where they go together. You only get four tries.

01:58:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Would erm be different.

01:58:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Maybe, I don't know, maybe darn instead of erm, I don't know.

01:58:29 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Here, let's, let's guess, and see, I think it's like, it's like a.

01:58:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Nope, I'm one away.

01:58:34 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Maybe it's like instead of oh, like the.

01:58:36 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
No like goes with, subscribe, share and follow.

01:58:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh yeah, See, there you go. So subscribe, share, follow, there you go. That's, I'm going to play with Benito from now on. So he says, yeah, social media actions. So now we narrowed it down. There's four of them, One. Each one is harder than the next. Um house, darn seam scrubs. Well, maybe seam and hem are sewing things and darn and so and so. And yes, Sewing terms, right.

01:59:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
This is great content, guys.

01:59:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Boom, use a needle and thread. Okay, so this hard. Anyway, yeah, we won't keep going.

01:59:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
But oh, okay, now you got it finished?

01:59:20 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, we do. We do have to finish.

01:59:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay. Well, the good news is, if we get the third one, the fourth one solves itself.

01:59:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So ratchet and scrubs as a nurse nurse ratchet house and erm.

01:59:32 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Well, and house like, like, like doctor house or whatever doctor house, nurse ratchet scrubs and ER house. Oh, and so then it's a TV show, is there?

01:59:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
a TV show besides. So these are all TV shows. House scrubs ER.

01:59:50 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I think ratchet is the show is ratchet.

01:59:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh yeah, ratchet was a show as a bouton. It's ratchet.

01:59:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah.

01:59:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Bingo, bingo, bongo, shows set in hospitals. And then, well, erm, uh, and on which I thought was going to be the easiest, and we've solved it.

02:00:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What did you do wrong in the first one? What did you? You put darn in there.

02:00:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
We include no, we included err ER yeah.

02:00:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh ER.

02:00:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I hate puzzles. They do that on purpose.

02:00:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You want to be dragged in. See, they do it on purpose.

02:00:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You're a puzzle, hater. Yeah, You're well you're, I like the crossword yeah, the crosswords.

02:00:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Were you paid to get that? No, I do pay to get this. I pay the New York Times.

02:00:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I just pay the New York Times all in.

02:00:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I guess you're right. I get that as part of that. Yes, you're right. Yeah, but the problem is Lisa always does the wordle, so I have to do the wordle in an incognito window. Wow. Because, once it's solved, it remembers that it's solved right, so you have to I always who's better at wordle? You release.

02:00:45 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Really good.

02:00:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
She's. What's your opening word. I like tears because it ends with an S and it's got those.

02:00:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I like tears.

02:00:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I like tears, very funny. What's your open?

02:00:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I use, I rate.

02:00:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I rate is good.

02:01:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's got a lot of vowels in it and then R and T as a perfect example of what we were talking about earlier.

02:01:06 - Leo Laporte (Host)
When I want to go to wordle, what do I do? I go to this menu bar and I type wordle Right, don't you?

02:01:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Because then oh wait, and do you just search wordle? You don't scroll down to the URL. No.

02:01:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I just type wordle in here, I think Jeff and I are on the same thing.

02:01:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
We scroll down to the URL in the.

02:01:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, you see it here. No, no no, well, that's too much work, I just type it and then it's the first thing.

02:01:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm not giving any tech company an extra web page view.

02:01:35 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
You remember when Google used to just put the dot com on there for you?

02:01:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, well, they do on some things they still do. They'll put the dot com on. How about a quick change log before we wrap things up for the week? The Google change log.

02:01:55
I do not like ads on YouTube. You can get very intrusive, so I pay for YouTube premium. But there are a lot of other people who say, ah, no, just use an ad blocker. Well, google's wise to you. They are now fully blocking ad blockers around the world. In a statement shared with the Verge, youtube says it has launched a global effort to urge viewers. Urge them, with ad blockers enabled, to allow ads on YouTube. Or try YouTube premium for an ad free experience. Paris, I think you're a cheapskate. I think you do not pay for YouTube premium. I'm thinking.

02:02:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I don't watch YouTube. Oh, I don't consume visual content, I don't.

02:02:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't consume video content, I don't do you curl up on a couch with gizmo, the cat and your monstera and you read a book made out of paper. I know you do that.

02:02:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, totally, that's definitely what I do. I don't play video games I do.

02:02:54 - Leo Laporte (Host)
ballers skate till four in the morning.

02:02:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Infinitely on my phone. I do everyday things like using a book. No, I do read.

02:03:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
You're proud of prejudice. Over and over, yeah, I see Over and over the New Yorker there. Yeah, is there.

02:03:08 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I read, I have Um, I have. Yeah, not the New Yorker, but I have New York Magazine. I have Bloomberg Business Week. I have Wired Magazine. That's all for work. I mean it's a pleasure to I enjoy. I love a good magazine.

02:03:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Jeff, do you pay for YouTube premium? I think we've talked about that. Right, I do. Yeah, I have to. What?

02:03:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
are you guys? What are you guys watching on? Oh, I know what are you watching on YouTube.

02:03:36 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I don't watch much actually.

02:03:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I watch YouTube all the time you want to see.

02:03:41 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I get YouTube premium because one time I got in a song, got interrupted in the middle with an ad. I was like what? You can't do this in music. You can't do this music. It's terrible.

02:03:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So here's my I'm not doing a song on YouTube.

02:03:52 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I don't own it, what? And I don't use Spotify.

02:03:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Are you kidding? All the youngs do that. I'm. You're old for your age, that's how you get music.

02:04:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm weird because I don't use. You are weird, I know this.

02:04:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, all the all the kids. That's, their music is YouTube. Let's see what I am. What. What YouTube the most?

02:04:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
butterfly, butterfly. Imaginable is the first thing.

02:04:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, but this is okay, because Jeff will appreciate this. This is, this is saduku.

02:04:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So, oh God he hates puzzles no no he hates me because I like puzzles.

02:04:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So I watch a lot of saduku 90 day fiance season 10, episode five. I don't know why Google's recommending that? Oh, I know why, Cause I I asked. I subscribed to access Hollywood because my son's on that once in a while. There's Steve Gibson and but I guess these are twit shorts. I didn't even know we did that. Look at that. Oh, we make twit shorts. Look at that. Here's the last Beatles song.

02:04:52 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Just FYI. When you scroll over and the video starts playing, that counts as a view now.

02:04:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh yeah, see, that's why views on YouTube are meaningless.

02:04:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So, by the way, the now and then story is a really neat technology story.

02:05:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is the last Beatles song ever To take one Silent turnover. Oh, I'm going to get in so much trouble you can't play.

02:05:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, we publish it. Yeah, we can't do that.

02:05:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What's the story?

02:05:14 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Jeff, the story is that there was a, I think a Lenin track.

02:05:20 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Guys, we started out trying to do the change log at the beginning of this. I'm sorry. Continue.

02:05:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Are you just now realizing that we have no intentions how this works?

02:05:28 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Yeah sorry, continue.

02:05:32 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So it's an AI story, you see, because there's not a good recording of it Right, and now AI can separate out the instrumental track from the voice track and they have other stuff together. Well, as in fact they were working on the song and now they can come out with this. This must actually we're working on.

02:05:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is the last song ever and this must be the Peter Jackson technology, because you remember Peter Jackson? You know I got it.

02:05:58
Peter Jackson did a great documentary, which I recommend to anybody who wants to spend 18 hours watching the Beatles sit around talking. But in order to do it the documentary that we're making they weren't interested in what the kids were saying. They were interested in the music, so they weren't. They weren't micking the Beatles, so Peter Jackson, the film director, did the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings had to go in and develop AI technologies that could actually improve the voice and actually it's amazing to hear them talking. I'm being silly and I think, I bet you, it's the same technology that they're using to recover this.

02:06:33 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So Yoko had a recording of a demo and it was a bootleg it circulated for years.

02:06:38 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah. It was finished in the studio last year by Sir Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr. George Harrison re-recorded the rhythm guitar parts in 1995. Producer Giles Martin who is what's his name? Martin's son, the original. What's his name? Something? Martin, anyway, gosh, that's a memory hole. Those who've heard the finished tracks say it's a poignant and moving reflection on the band's friendship. Sir Paul says he cries George, george Martin, thank you. Hearing Rob Sheffield of Rolling Stone magazine, hearing John and Paul sing the first chorus together as they lock into the line now and then I miss you, is intensely powerful, to say the least. Well, I'm going to have to listen to that.

02:07:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, see, it was a good story there. Paris has nothing to do with Google.

02:07:29 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I wasn't saying it wasn't going to be a good story. I just realized in that moment that we were in a segment that we did not spend a single second on.

02:07:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You understand now how this show happens.

02:07:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Google's officially trying to make your trapped now in the and you can't escape the room. Paris.

02:07:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
True? No, this timer is going on forever.

02:07:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Google's officially trying to makeing domains a thing. You can now register them as part of an early access program. It's funny because Google got out of the domains business, selling it to Squarespace, but I guess they're still. You know, you have to spend a lot of money to get a new TLD top level domain and Google's trying to recoup that money because, for instance, if you tried to buy THing, it'll cost you $40,000 a year from GoDaddy. What would you do per perusing, perusing and be good, jeffing.

02:08:27 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I've already got Parisnyc, which is pretty good that's excellent.

02:08:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's excellent. That's good. Combines two of my favorite cities into it. What about podcast?

02:08:38 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh podcast, oh God.

02:08:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
How do I get it?

02:08:42 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let's, let's quitting right now.

02:08:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Where would I go to get it GoDaddy?

02:08:47 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh God, yeah, I guess that's who's got it. Google domains search domains.

02:08:52 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They've cleaned up. Godaddy Cast A lot.

02:08:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Really ing. Oh, if I could get this, I'd be rich. It's only $4,000 a year. Wait a minute, and that doesn't guarantee it.

02:09:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And that's just for yeah.

02:09:09 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Vastly improve your odds of gaining this domain. Godaddy submits your preregistration when it opens on December 5th. That costs $4,000. Or for a little more. I get priority preregistration and then wait a minute.

02:09:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Hey, you could get podcastsucks for two grand a year.

02:09:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's pretty cheap. Podcast store podcast Inc Put a G at the end. Oh, podcastzone is a 10 bucks a year.

02:09:39 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's a bargain.

02:09:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Wow, these are cheap Podcastearth $29.99 a year. Maybe I should really be Podcast care. Remember when they somebody spent millions of dollars to get sexcom and then they found out it's really worthless? Nobody you know that's. Generic domain names are worthless.

02:09:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Because they, because they go to Google and they type in sex and they're not going to get sexcom. That's right, that's true.

02:10:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm going to start buying some ads. Google has compli. I don't know what this story means. I think this must be a Jason Howell. It's from search engine journal Google complete switch to mobile first indexing. It's a me. No, I put it in there. Well, you better explain it. Explain yourself.

02:10:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, it's been really going on for quite some time. Basically, google is going to check mobile pages first before they do web pages. Wow, that's kind of a big change. Better have a good mobile page, and I guess they've been doing it, but it's been a long transition. But it's done, that's a work done. The scaffolding is down. The workers have gone home. They've taken their lunch pails with them.

02:10:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Google fiber, which Google is now rebranding G fiber which says they rebranded in stupid ways. It sounds like something you should need to be more regular If you're an old guy. For now, this is early access, but most customers will be upgraded to 20 gigabits per second. Wow, what the hell yeah. No one has an ethernet connection.

02:11:06 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
for that, though, no one has an internet card that can go 20.

02:11:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, of course not. In fact it's a big deal if you have a 10 gigabit ethernet card, 20, forget it. We have 10 gigabit symmetric here and most of our machines can't we'll handle one. So the 20 gigabit service is made possible by new networking gear from Nokia, which means they could push more bandwidth over existing lines. So maybe other ISPs will do that. Maybe our sonic connection will be 20 gigs symmetric at some point. Google's head of product, nick Saperito, says we definitely see a need for 20 gigabit service.

02:11:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's what he sounds like. That's exact. That's what he says.

02:11:52 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He says the service is true, these cable guys are like that, yeah.

02:11:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a very early adopter product, but it will eventually roll out in most, if not all, of our markets. No word on how much it'll cost, though. I mean I think it might cost more, right? Google Bard can now respond in real time.

02:12:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What does that mean? It's already Shall we try it.

02:12:17 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Okay, so normally what happens.

02:12:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I see you didn't just search Bard in Google, you entered a URL.

02:12:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, I didn't. No, I didn't.

02:12:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I typed EARD and I let.

02:12:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Google fill it in, so give me a question.

02:12:34 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Can you respond in real time?

02:12:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Can you respond Now? Normally it takes a chat GPT for maybe three or four seconds, right? To respond faster Okay.

02:12:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's a couple seconds there. Yes, come on.

02:12:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That is slow.

02:12:56 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I should start with saying like um, uh, and then yeah, what is the capital of France?

02:13:10 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It has to think yeah, that's not real time.

02:13:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Sorry buddy. Sorry, buddy, how about?

02:13:16 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
my trick as a teacher Is to say good question to buy myself time.

02:13:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, and then you answer the question you wish. They asked.

02:13:24 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's the best way to do a media?

02:13:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
hit on TV. Good question.

02:13:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I hate it when people say good question. That's so patronizing. But now I realize they don't mean it, they're just stalling.

02:13:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
No, that's why. That's literally why I do it yeah.

02:13:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, no, I've never once said good question, because. I was a good question whether or not it is.

02:13:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's just I gotta have a couple of months to think Another pet peeve and don't ever do this when you interview people, but I bet you don't, because your quality is the the I call it the hyperbole question Like what was your most embarrassing moment on the radio? Oh, I hate the most. Or what's your favorite or what's the best? I hate those. You know what?

02:14:03 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
was your most embarrassing moment.

02:14:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Shut up, it's a bad yeah.

02:14:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
What's the one that? What's the one that comes to mind? Or Hanson, your dreams?

02:14:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't want to talk about it. It's embarrassing. Why would I?

02:14:13 - Paris Martineau (Host)
repeat it You're thrown up on Mike. No, that's surprising, Honestly 40,.

02:14:20 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I've been in broadcasting 47 years and I've never thrown up on microphone. Have you burped yeah, many times? I do that all the time, you can't help that or hiccups, sneezes, coughs, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but those are not embarrassing, it's just human and we can edit that out. But you know I worked in live forever, so I'm still live. You know, I still do it live, really, I guess.

02:14:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Jeff and I were talking before the show. How many hours do you think you have been recorded, or on Mike, in your life?

02:14:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Just on Twitter alone. I get. A statistic is up in my office. Do you have access to that page that Patrick Delahani made Benito? Do you know where that is? You may not have access to that. I don't. Is it a web page? It's in my office the last time I looked. You could John's going to pull it up, but the last time I looked. If you started listening to the podcast we started in 2005 and you continue to listen to all of them, would take you more than three years to listen to everything, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So there are many tens of thousands of hours.

02:15:30 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
He's not on all of those, but many, I mean I don't know back of envelope, been doing probably five hours.

02:15:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Let's say I did three hours a day, five days a week, 15 hours a week for the last 47 years.

02:15:47 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Patrick has it in a in chat and discord.

02:15:51 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It adds up. It's also missing many episodes of the tech guys. So 995 days, eight hours 38 minutes and 54 seconds to be. Wow, patrick is, and you know what. I can do it in real time, unlike Google bar, like bar. Yeah, nfl Sunday ticket price on YouTube TV 50%. Cut Well, the season's half over. What's the big deal, folks?

02:16:21 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I didn't put that one in there, good Lord, oh, good news.

02:16:24 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You only have to pay half as much for a half the season, but it's the better part of the season. It is actually that's the half you want. Google keep is now replacing two Google apps that no one ever used Assistant notes and shopping list. I don't even remember these Assistant.

02:16:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Who's job is it to just go through the, the, the archives of Google, and say well, we still do that.

02:16:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here it is. Did you ever see this? Look, I actually have a shopping list, google shopping list. Broccoli, wow, steel cutouts Leaves.

02:16:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I love all the ones that say food at the bottom.

02:17:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Spirits cream cheese market stakes food, food, food, food.

02:17:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You got to get on that he's not picky.

02:17:10 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
The as long as you call it food, it's going in.

02:17:16 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Really important. You can't forget that I wish.

02:17:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I said a date on it. I wonder when.

02:17:22 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I made this list.

02:17:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Hey, hey, buy food.

02:17:29 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Otherwise I'll forget.

02:17:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You're at home, open up your refrigerator. It's empty. You're like oh man, I forgot to buy food. I got to put it on the list.

02:17:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, crud oh no. Oh man, they left out food, and that is the Google change log. From the information A long article about my pin has humane created the next iPhone in the next Google glass? This is Julia Black, your colleague. We were talking about this November 9th. We're going to find out. Does this now you? I presume you read the article Paris.

02:18:18 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah.

02:18:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Does it make you now think more of me?

02:18:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It makes me more aware of the amount of money you're willing to spend on a little pin. Yeah, on stupid stuff. I thought it was kind of interesting that she writes. The Humane, which is the company behind this pin, was really shocked, actually by a different report by the information that Sam Altman, one of humane's biggest shareholders, was in discussions with OpenAI to maybe make some sort of physical device, be it a phone or a wearable.

02:18:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And they were going to have Johnny. Ive design it.

02:19:02 - Paris Martineau (Host)
And that's part of the reason why they moved the launch date back from the eclipse to November 9th.

02:19:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
And wasn't there, and Sam also invested in another AI recording device. That's kind of competitive. Is this the rewind pin. Yeah, they're rewind. I wanted to buy that also.

02:19:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I want them all. You should just, you know get a line into Sam Altman and be like anything you invest in. Just give me one of those.

02:19:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, well, we'll see which comes out first. How about that?

02:19:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It did give some more detail about kind of what this pin is going to be. I mean, it's about it's a screenless device about the size of a saltine cracker, equipped with a camera, a microphone, a speaker, a variety of sensors and a laser projector. It is going to secure to your clothing magnetically, which we knew, but it's going to have a camera with a 180 degree field of view to kind of take in the world and the company's going to have basically a mobile virtual network that it's operating so that you don't have to have it work with a cell phone service at all. It's supposed to be kind of a hands-free smartphone, or please See don't you want to?

02:20:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Here's a picture of its designer wondering where his beer went. I don't know what he's. He's actually projecting under his hand. Well, they didn't say they don't say do they?

02:20:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's unclear what the monthly data subscription will be, but it's expected to cost as much as $1,000. Before you get to the subscription For the device.

02:20:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
But an iPhone costs $1,200 or more and I can't stick it to my but this is a tiny pen that you, I mean you could have.

02:20:42 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You heard of pockets. You get a little pocket right there.

02:20:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Pockets the clown. I think if I had the proper magnet here, I could.

02:20:52 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's true. They do have magnets.

02:20:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Now I know I would be right there there you go, but this is smaller, it's less obtrusive and it doesn't have a screen. That's what he's doing. He's just looking at his palm because he's projecting like an incoming call on his palm.

02:21:05 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think my favorite thing about my phone is looking at the screen, though I know people poo poo screen time, but I love the screen. The screen brings me joy. The screen brings me pain, but it also brings me joy.

02:21:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, here's Naomi Campbell wearing it in a fashion show in Paris last month. She says my eyes are up here. There's the pen, I think an Apple Watch kind of on her lapel. Humane is currently valued at $850 million.

02:21:39 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So let's do the over and under for the Remember humane story.

02:21:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I have quite a few of those devices.

02:21:51 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Be real is kind of that.

02:21:52 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's kind of the next be real. People still use be real a little bit, it's free.

02:22:00 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Way down, way down.

02:22:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Way, way down. No, not in any way. It's not doing well.

02:22:05 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I'll give it about 10 quibbies.

02:22:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's 10, quibbies 10 quibbies is generous. Yeah, quibby lasted six months.

02:22:15 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, like six months. Was it six months?

02:22:17 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
No, it was like two months was it.

02:22:19 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It launched right as the pandemic started and then it actually decided to fold.

02:22:23 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Actually decided to fold.

02:22:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh yeah, Scarimucci is like a fraction of a quibi.

02:22:30 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Let me ask Bard, how long is a quibi?

02:22:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Okay, if Bard can give me the correct answer to this, I will. I'll rethink some of my questions.

02:22:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
A quibi is a 10 minute episode of video. Well, is that the?

02:22:45 - Paris Martineau (Host)
problem. No, Okay, but here it did give me some information.

02:22:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It launched in.

02:22:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
April and shut down in October, so that is six months. Should I ask chat, gpt Chat? I just typed chat and it opens. It's amazing. Oh, I got to log in. Never mind, it's going to take a while. I should have a shorter password.

02:23:11 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I think I don't know 18 months. I'd say 18 months is me being generous.

02:23:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Really Interesting. Remember the nothing phone that went away quick. It's fine. It's problematic, but they have a lot of. They probably have a lot of runway. I don't know. Let's see. Let's do chat GPT for and I could get an image of how long a quibi is, but I won't do that. How long is a quibi? Maybe they coined the quibi as the term five to 10 minutes in length, according to chat.

02:23:50 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Right, there is the information April to December.

02:23:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
This is somewhat useful. The problem, I find, is it's wordy.

02:24:00 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yes.

02:24:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I think that's a problem. I don't know. I think it's a problem.

02:24:03 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's not as Well, it's because it doesn't know actually what you're asking. It's trying to guess and it's trying to answer at the best it can by throwing as much as it can at you. I mean, I think in both of those cases the real thing we were looking for wasn't the first or second sentence, All right.

02:24:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So you know what it makes me think of. It's like an eighth grader trying to do an essay question.

02:24:24 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yes.

02:24:25 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I think this is what the future wants, and probably many eighth graders are using this to do an essay question so it's kind of a snake eating.

02:24:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
a snake Exactly.

02:24:31 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, yeah, is there anything? We're out of time. I'm going to do the last break, but I'll give you, jeff, and Paris, an opportunity If there's a story in here that we missed. Jeff, you added quite a few stories, but I think we got to a lot of those.

02:24:45 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, you got to a lot of stuff. Oh, I know, I know this one. This is really really minor. It'll drive you crazy. It drives me crazy, at least. So Jason Calacanis goes onto Twitter. He's looking for a CEO to run all in which is currently the pod and the summit, and he's looking for somebody with luxury brand experience Podcasts as luxury brand.

02:25:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He says he doesn't want any media executives. He wants hospitality executives or luxury. He wants Angela Arons he doesn't want. You know, let's move this. Who are the hosts of all in? I have no idea. Oh yeah, I do, it's David Sacks. Chamath.

02:25:33
Chamath. I listened to it once and they were boasting about how much money they had spent. Chamath Palat Pai yeah, chamath Palahapthia who is? These are all VCs. David Sacks and David Freberg cover all things, echo something Economic, I don't know Economic, technical, political, social and poker, but I tuned in once and, by the way, jason used to be a regular on our shows Totally stole your concept.

02:26:11
I didn't go to long time, well, and then I even made it up with him after that. He's your nice guy, but I feel like it's a bunch of rich guys bemoaning, you know, poor people and then I think the last thing I heard was you saying well, if you're going to go to Tokyo, you've absolutely got to go with Mark Zuckerberg. He knows all the places that was like. So I don't know, but I guess they're doing well. They got 42 million views. They got half of it.

02:26:50 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I mean it's incredibly popular podcast in the tech VCs.

02:26:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Maso, is Joe Rogan right? I don't understand Joe. Rogan's success. I really don't Okay yeah. Yeah, it's the bros. Bros listen to a lot of podcasts. I get, I guess.

02:27:06 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Joe Rogan's boss is popular because it's the place where kids can go, because they don't have like that older cousin anymore that tells them weird stories. That's who Joe Rogan is.

02:27:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, my son listens to it. I got in the car with him the other day. He was listening to Joe Rogan. He says don't judge me, no, no.

02:27:22 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You have to stage an intervention Leo. Yeah, he's going to take the red pill.

02:27:25 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, I don't think he's getting red pill. I've trained him well. Big article in the hot pot area of Shapiro's newsletter about podcasting, about Joe's big decision. I mentioned this earlier. It's been three years. Will he renew? Well, you have to be up to him. You think Spotify will turn their back on Joe Rogan? I know they're tightening their belts. But yeah, you know, as, as Ariel points out, he brings the ad fees way up on Spotify. It's a million dollars to buy an ad on his show One million dollars.

02:27:59 - Paris Martineau (Host)
But is that going to Spotify? It's going to Joe Rogan, right. No, well, they're splitting it somehow, but they gave him a lot of money, I mean, I suppose we'll see whether or not the deal has been lucrative, based on the fact that if they renew it or not, didn't. He recently announced that he was going to release the first two hours of his podcast on Twitter.

02:28:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, that's the thing. I imagine there are people coming to him saying, uh, I can, I will. Whatever Spotify's paying you, I will double it because he's he's the number one podcast in the world. He's worth it, I guess. Um, serious, serious goodbye. I'm serious. Premier, uh, twitter, a lot of people come into him, probably offering him a lot of money. Be interested in a watch, we will see.

02:28:44
You want to love Don, I think, if you're Joe and you want, if. It depends what Joe's priorities are, as, as Shapiro points out, he may just want to come in turn on the microphone, talk and leave, but if he wants to build a business, he could absolutely build a billion dollar business on his own. He doesn't need them. That's what Howard did with serious. But the difference is that right now, joe is exclusive to Spotify and Howard's exclusive to serious. You want to build a really big business. Don't be exclusive. That's what I said to one of the right right. I agree you could be so much bigger by just saying anyone who wants to listen can listen. I mean, if you're getting a million dollars a minute for ads on Spotify, which is only 17% of the podcast market, then I imagine you could get more if you were everywhere. Yeah, youtube would. Youtube wants to get a podcast. How much money can Google throw on the table? More than Spotify?

02:29:38 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They don't do Joe Rogan, they'll be the worst. Well, I think that's the only thing that's stopping.

02:29:42 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That is, that Joe's got kind of a reputation right.

02:29:46 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah.

02:29:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I wonder if going to Spotify exclusive impacted his listenership in any major way. I feel like it possibly didn't.

02:29:56 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He had to pull all his YouTube videos down. But I guess the kids like my son, who want to hear Joe, just get the Spotify app. You don't have to pay for it, right? You just have to have an account and they get the Spotify app. Listen, do you listen to Joe Rogan Benito?

02:30:11 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I do not know.

02:30:12 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Why not? Thank goodness, benito's a smart man. Oh, that's why.

02:30:15 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I have a because I already listened to podcasts like four hours a day.

02:30:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Joe's podcasts are the only podcast longer than our own, which is saying something, because we're at the two and a half hour mark.

02:30:30
Let me take a break and then we will get your picks of the week. I have a weird one. I'm very curious what you think about my pick of the week. But first a word from Collide K-O-L-I-D-E, a device trust solution for companies that use Okta. See, okta makes sure that the right person gets in. Collide ensures that if the person's device isn't trusted and secure, they can't log into your cloud apps. If you work in security or IT and your company's using Okta, this is for you. This is a feature you need.

02:31:00
If you've noticed for the past few years, the majority of data breaches, the majority of hacks you read about, they all have one thing in common the employees. Sometimes an employee's device gets hacked, maybe because of unpatched software. That's what happened to LastPass. Sometimes an employee leaves sensitive data in an insecure or unsecured place. You see that happening all the time with the breaches on data and Amazon buckets and things where the secrets are actually posted on GitHub, because it seems like every day a hacker breaks in using credentials they fish from an employee. The problem here, though I don't want to blame your employees, your end users the problem is the solutions you're using to prevent those breaches. They're not enough, but it doesn't have to be that way. Imagine a world where only secure devices can access your cloud apps. In this world, fish credentials are useless to hackers Because you know they just can't get through. You can manage every OS, including Linux, all from a single dashboard. That's one thing Kaleid does so well. Best of all, you get employees to fix their own device security issues, so you don't create more work for the IT team and the employees become part of the security team. They buy into all of the security that you need them to buy into. The good news is you don't have to imagine this world. You just start using Kaleid For companies with OCTA.

02:32:16
Kaleid is at kaleidcom. Take a look at their on-demand demo. You can book it today. See how it works for you. K-o-l-i-d-e Kaleidcom slash Twig. Let's get credit for Twig. Kaleidcom slash Twig. It's the Vice Trust for OCTA. We thank them so much for supporting our show so I see it all over.

02:32:42
What.

02:32:43 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
What is?

02:32:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
OCTA. So OCTA is a authentication tool. You can put it on your phone. I used to see Premier uses it, so I used to use it to log in to Premier, where it could be two-factor, it could be password-less, it could be single sign-on, but the idea is it's an authentication tool. Okay, thank you, I just see it all over. Yeah, and a lot of companies use it.

02:33:07
There are other solutions. Duo is another one that does this. But the reason it's an interesting business for Kaleid because they're riding on top of OCTA. Because OCTA only authenticates the human, kaleid also checks to make sure the human's device is insecure. So if my phone is hacked, octa would let me in, but then that would be letting in whatever is on my phone. So Kaleid goes the extra step. It's actually a very good idea. Thank you, that's interesting. Yeah, dotai, have you heard of it?

02:33:40 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yes, I have.

02:33:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, not dotai, it's the dot, it's a not. Oh, you know what I'm going to have to find the link. It's not what I thought it would. Beai would be the smart link. It's not out yet, but it's an AI tool. That it's by newcomputer, I'm sorry, newcomputer. Dot by newcomputer is they want it to be an AI-based operating system. This is what's interesting to me.

02:34:12
We haven't seen any changes in the way operating systems operate since the very beginning. I mean essentially what Bell Labs came up with with the Unix or, even before that, VMware from on Vaxes. It's all basically the same thing. There's file handling. It opens an application. Is there a way AI could be used to change the way an operating system works and to rethink what a computer is doing for you? So I don't know if this is going to take off. I got on it's only waitlist right now. We'll see. I'll just play with it. But they have on the website newcomputer. They have a description of how it might work for you. So the idea is it's initially. It's not an operating system standalone. It's running as an app on your phone.

02:34:53
They use as an example a young woman named May. She's a first semester college student. Last day before school begins, she's in kitchen at home, Her grandmother hands her a recipe. Take it. That way, home will never feel too far away. Nice, Thank you, grandma. Oops, I'm going to use my grandma's flatbread. She shares it with Dutch, Takes a picture and dot is basically a messaging app. This is my grandma's flatbread. It translates, it creates a recipe and then she has a button you can press it to add it to her data bank. Before leaving for school the next day, May sends daughter class syllabi for the semester. When it's time to buy the textbooks, she says hey, I'm at the bookstore. What textbooks do I need to buy? Dot says here's a shopping list based on the syllabi. You sent me All of these capabilities, by the way, all AI has today in various ways. Right, you could combine them together. May heads to the library to prepare for the first test of the semester. Dot helps quiz May on our class notes. That's interesting.

02:35:59 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's interesting. Here's all my notes.

02:36:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
She says she just texted. I need help studying for my midterm. She's been storing her notes in there right, by the way, dot knows, this is kind of notebook Alemish. I would love to see this as an operating system like going the next step. In fact, that's what the pin could be right.

02:36:18 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
That's the agent blob, the agent blob.

02:36:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think that a lot of the interesting ideas in this wave of AI are circling around this idea. You kind of can use AI to improve your memory, to be the connective tissue between a lot of different, disparate pieces of information you collect in your day-to-day life.

02:36:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Then imagine giving it a voice, that you no longer have to have a screen or a phone. Maybe you have a pin and you can say hey, dot, take a picture of this, this is my grandma's recipe. Dot says to you, I got it. You can then later say, hey, I need that recipe, and maybe Dot prints it out somewhere or projects it somewhere. I love this idea. It's almost her right. It's almost that AI agent. Anyway, I thought this was interesting.

02:37:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I can get behind this, and this is exactly what I thought you meant when you said Dot AI, because funny, it's not Dotai. No, this is exactly what I thought you meant was new Dot computer, because I do not go to clubs normally, that's not my scene. I was at a club in Williamsburg a month ago and met the co-founders of the track Sam and Jason. Yeah. Oh my God, so I've been following along with them launching it.

02:37:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They seem very nice. Jason Yuan, who is?

02:37:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Jason has very cool blonde hair. Yeah, look at him, he's ex-Apple design team.

02:37:47 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He created another OS, mercury OS. He's the co-founder, along with SJ Whitmore, sam Whitmore.

02:37:55 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Sam Whitmore yeah.

02:37:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Sam is not a cat, but you met Sam and you met them both and Jason met them both. Wow.

02:38:03 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They were really nice. They were in New York for the weekend, I think they've raised money right. Yeah, they have. I'm not sure how much, but they have.

02:38:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There are some people using it. Mark Wilson and Fast Company has been using it. He's for two months, so I immediately put it on the waiting list. But I should have said oh, I know Paris Martin, though I clearly missed.

02:38:31 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Okay, I'll try it out and yeah, I'll see. I'll see what you can do.

02:38:35 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Talk to him See if you can get in on it. Yeah.

02:38:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'll see if we can get a little test going on here on tomorrow.

02:38:40 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Whatmore, was a former head of engineering at Ken Show, which is an AI innovation arm of the S&P Global.

02:38:47 - Paris Martineau (Host)
So I mean, these people have credentials and apparently the brief conversation I had with them at a club about AI, they seemed like they had their you know head screwed on right.

02:38:59 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah.

02:39:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They didn't seem like they were lost in the sauce.

02:39:02 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They're currently using Anthropic and chat, gpt and I think even barred. They're using a variety of tools, but they hope at some point, to put it make it an on device thing, and I think we're getting close to that, both with Google and Apple that the power storage piece is.

02:39:20 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Interesting too is that you're out, you're giving it your notes all term and it's, and it's, it's compiling that and remembering that and doing something with it. That's what's interesting.

02:39:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's to me the most interesting use of AI right now is giving it a corpus and then asking questions about the corpus. Which is what? Notebook L M? No book L M. Yeah.

02:39:39
It's to me. That's that's trouble free, because it's not going to. It can't make up stuff, but it can help you. And I remember I told you this the anecdote about sitting with friends and he recorded a conversation and it synopsized it and gave us action items. That was really cool. That's what. That's why this humane pin is intriguing to me, the idea of selectively recording stuff, even just having this show, and then say what are the show notes? I've seen AI generate show notes from our transcripts transcriptions of our shows and they're quite good.

02:40:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So I feel like there's something there, I ordered that other one and then realized it wasn't going to work on my phone. I'm, I'm, I'm crushed by friend Jay Rosen NYU and I had a conversation about the Gutenberg parenthesis at my school and they didn't record it and I was thinking, you know, if I had just recorded my phone, if I had just had it? There was moments where Jay said really smart things and I want to remember them and I can't.

02:40:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
So yeah, just everything should be recorded, every flux there's nowadays, there's no it's not your mission. There's no reason not to keep track of everything. You have plenty of storage. The problem, of course, there were twofold. One is storing it. Okay, we got plenty of storage. The second one was what do I do with it Once I've got it, and if you've got an agent that can go through it and give you actionable items, wow, you imagine what lawyers are places like Google are doing now?

02:40:57 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
No you do not bring that to work.

02:41:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, oh yeah, oh yeah. Every meeting is suddenly recorded in audio video.

02:41:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So that's hysterical. So you are hanging out with the founders. And then you go to the club and with the dot.

02:41:14 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's so funny. You said that. I was like, oh no, I know exactly what you're talking about. I just saw they launched computer.

02:41:21 - Leo Laporte (Host)
That's the website computer. Yep Paris, your pick of the week.

02:41:26 - Paris Martineau (Host)
My pick of the week is this lovely little flip clock. You know, sometimes you want to tell the time it's a clock with flaps and it makes a really fun noise every time the minutes change. And it makes an even more fun noise when the hours change and I can kind of hear it just faintly across my apartment and I'm like oh, that's the hour noise. It's 9pm, it's lovely.

02:41:49 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Is it really old Like do they still make it?

02:41:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, so I included the link to where I got it from this in the show notes. They have a bunch of different ones. I really like the design of it as well. It's based on its Twenco, which is an old or clock making company, and yeah, they have a lot of different fun colors. Yeah, the link is here. I'll put it in the chat too.

02:42:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Very nice, let me. Let me pull it up so I can show you what I've been thinking about is a giant. You know, on railroad stations they'd have those giant flap boards. Yeah, there's some companies that make those. Oh, I think those are so cool. I really want one of those in the house, or maybe on this in the studio.

02:42:40 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I don't know, the studio or the studio, or even so, the guest today.

02:42:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That would be so cool and you could kind of program it. The ones I like on these is the one on the right there the calendar flip wall clock that has not only the time but the day and the date. It's a little pricey, so fun 400. I mean, yeah, oh, it's big, they're large and they actually flip. I mean so all of them. It's like little cards that flip it's cute.

02:43:08 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
It's like how it used to be at the airport, like a little board. That's why I want that big annunciator.

02:43:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, this is crafted by one, by one of the only remaining flip clock manufacturers, first founded in 1968. So there, wow, I want this. This is a retrospect sales. All sorts of retro stuff.

02:43:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, highly recommended. I got one on my desk at the office and people always ask me about it.

02:43:34 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Yeah, have you seen the annual clock? No, a friend of mine named Jennifer Brandell, who spoke to our executive program today, showed her clock. She's a collection of clocks and it's at. This is colossalcom. I think you can find it there. Yeah, I found it, yeah.

02:43:50 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Is this the clock that keeps time for the world?

02:43:52 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, no, not the long now. This is the, this is a season clock, so it must move really slow. Yeah, time is a story we've been telling each other. Whatever?

02:44:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
whatever that, the voice of the, of the, of the, in a world where time is a story we keep telling each other.

02:44:19 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I stop this this clock will move very, very slowly.

02:44:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Very slowly, the colossal clock. Is it Vesta that makes the flap board the Vesta board? I think they approached us to do advertising. Yes, this is it. It's like an, it's like an airport.

02:44:44 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, I love it, oh it's great.

02:44:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I wanted to do ads for them. I don't know Whatever.

02:44:49 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, can I buy one for myself? Yes, you can they sell.

02:44:53 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm sure they're hideously expensive. Let's shop. Let's shop for a Vesta board. Oh, they're only $3,295, or you could rent it for $200 a month.

02:45:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Jesus.

02:45:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Christ Colored ones. I really wanted one of these in the studio. I think that's maybe. That's maybe why they. I tried to get them to say well, I said we'll do the ads. Just, you got to get us one. Just got to get us one, that's all. Well, now you got a free ad. How about that? I love flaps. I love the sound. There's a sound. It's great they have that at Grand Central, or uh yeah.

02:45:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, look up the TWA hotel, which is a hotel that they've redone at JFK airport, which hot tip any New York area listeners, Jeff, for instance, if you want to go to a fun rooftop uh pool on the TWA hotel. They've got one.

02:46:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Da, da, da da.

02:46:07 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Now the, the two lights going back and forth. That's for European that wasn't you.

02:46:11 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, this is European, yeah. Oh, okay, oh what. You know this is. Isn't that weird that they worked so hard to get us digital boards and we still want this? Yeah, so where's the TWA hotel? It's connected to JFK.

02:46:31 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
It's in the old terminal. It is the old terminal.

02:46:35 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They've lovingly recreated it just like there's a twister. They have a. They have a flip clock.

02:46:44 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, I'm staying there the next time. I go to, I'm in New. York.

02:46:47 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, there it is.

02:46:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
There's the flip flip board.

02:46:54 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wow, it's got a really great rooftop. And it's got the.

02:46:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Paris cafe. They named the restaurant for you.

02:47:00 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, that was very kind of me.

02:47:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let's so, jetsons.

02:47:05 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's real. Wow, hipsters are going to love this.

02:47:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Oh, it's been open for a while. They do love it, yeah. By Jean George. Jean George, Paris cafe.

02:47:14 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Look at, that's the old TWA terminal I've flown into that terminal back in the day, holy cow.

02:47:21 - Paris Martineau (Host)
They have a wait. No, if you go back the photo of the plane, the pool yeah, I was. I was sitting up there a month or two ago. If you go back one more, that plane is a cocktail bar. That person is going in and out of the cocktail bar. It's not an actual plane.

02:47:37 - Leo Laporte (Host)
OMG, that's really. Whoever did that must have spent a lot of money. But it was kind of a flyer, so to speak, but they paid off. Yeah, I definitely. So now the problem is you're at the air, you're at JFK, you're out on Long Island, you're not in town.

02:47:53 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Well, if you get the flight. A friend of mine just last week we went to a benefit and he had a six o'clock flight the next morning out of JFK.

02:48:00 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Then it makes sense yeah, here's the, here's that cocktail lounge in the airplane. Look at that.

02:48:07 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Really cool.

02:48:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I'm very happy that SFO now has a hotel hotel.

02:48:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, they got out of.

02:48:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I've stayed there. Yeah, it's great when you know there's.

02:48:16 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Every airport should have a hotel. I think that originally was in Europe, right, there was always a train hotel for the train station. Jeff, a number of the week.

02:48:26 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So you're going to throw out a throw away all those clocks you're buying because they are now absolutely upmoded, because technology has extended the day. So the average day, according to Michael Wolf's activate, is 32 hours long. What?

02:48:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That means more flips.

02:48:48 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Exactly what? Because we multitask. So if you go to that, spread that PowerPoint there, line whatever. Number six explains that we sleep for 6.38 hours a page six a night. We work for 5.2 hours a day, which is not going to make bosses.

02:49:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
We podcast for two hours and 48 minutes a day.

02:49:15 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Exactly so. If you go to the next slide, it's all about multitasking. That's how the day is longer, because we oh, because we're doing these simultaneously. Exactly so 71% of people do something else while listening to music.

02:49:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
How many of you listening to the show are doing something else right now?

02:49:36 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Exactly 59% of you were doing that right now. Wait a minute. 38% are sleeping while they're listening to music. Listen to us.

02:49:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
They fell asleep about an hour ago. It looks like.

02:49:50 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Hey, it's still counts as a multitask while reading.

02:49:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I cannot, that's not I can't do that, but I can definitely. I often listen to audio books when I'm playing a video game because I feel guilty, so I oh my God, I can't do that. That's hard. Well, you playing hard games. I just play slash and burn games Like the yeah, I don't play slash ball there's gate you got to pay attention to you turn off the stupid game cells. No, I like it. They're mixed together nicely, oh man.

02:50:19 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I hate those. What game are you still?

02:50:22 - Leo Laporte (Host)
playing Baldur's Gate three, paris, or what are you playing these?

02:50:25 - Paris Martineau (Host)
times still. I need to. I need to stop. I'm on. I'm deep in my second run. I've spent too many hours.

02:50:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I got a would you recommend that as the best game right now?

02:50:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I think it's the. It's the best game I've ever played in my life.

02:50:39 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Wow, All right, I got to play it.

02:50:41 - Paris Martineau (Host)
An incredible work of writing You're still playing.

02:50:46 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I actually didn't get as into it as most people did. I mean, I loved Baldur's Gate one and two, though yeah, you're still playing Dwarf Fortress. That's what you're doing right now I'm playing cities and skylines too. Oh, that's looks good.

02:50:57 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Oh, that's a.

02:50:59 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
That's like a sim. You're building a city, yeah, yeah.

02:51:03 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I need a new game.

02:51:06 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I try Baldur's Gate.

02:51:07 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm going to. I well, you know what. It runs on a Mac and I just I just bought the new high end, high power GPU Mac, so maybe that's what I'll do.

02:51:18 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'll give you live stream your first hour in Baldur's Gate. Well, I finally got out of it. I finally okay.

02:51:26 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I got out of the alien spaceship, Okay, so I'm now in the ground and I can't figure out how to get out of that area. Like there's no, like I know there's a wait, no, just keep walking around, just keep walking around, leo.

02:51:38
So you know you're in the mother ship. I keep walking around and I keep coming back to the same place. I'm lost. I got my friend, my buddy, uh that I got two people I got. I got the one person who came, and then I got a person I rescued. So I got a little party going already.

02:51:55 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Uh yeah, you just got to keep walking around. I think you're just missing.

02:51:58 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You just got to keep walking around. There is a quite also quite a few other people to find in that area and yeah, you're going to be fine, you don't want to watch me stream it, my one recommendation for act one. Take a lot of rests. You think you can't sleep, but there's like cutscenes that play.

02:52:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's good to rest at camp? Not really good. But rest as a character, Don't stop playing the video game. Never stop.

02:52:22 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Make camp as your video game characters. You can see a fun little cutscene with all of your friends.

02:52:27 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Well, I was playing on windows and I thought I'm going to wait till the Mac versions. I think the Mac version is out and stable and everything Right, so I think maybe that's that's what I'll be doing tomorrow.

02:52:38 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
I'm curious about the before. Wait, wait till you get your M three. I want to, I want to, I want to.

02:52:41 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I want to. I'll bring it in Tuesday. I'm getting the M three max with a 40 GPU processors, all of that stuff, 64 gigs of RAM. So it should be not. But it's only a 14 inch screen, but we'll hook it up to a big screen. How about that, god?

02:52:57 - Paris Martineau (Host)
64 gigs of RAM is my dream, it's better than the AI Chrome tabs yeah, like five.

02:53:05 - Benito Gonzalez (Host)
Yeah, all probably, and that would be beautiful.

02:53:08 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Five tabs at once? Wow, thank you, jeff. So your number is 31 hours a day. That's how many days, how many hours a day?

02:53:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
you do less than that, you're slacking, no wonder we're exhausted all the time. Of course I've been. I've been tweeting while we're on on the show, so I've been, you know, podcasting and doing social media. You're multitasking.

02:53:30 - Paris Martineau (Host)
You got to get your hours in.

02:53:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, I've been watching a movie during the show.

02:53:36 - Paris Martineau (Host)
No, I haven't been doing a second podcast, actually, I don't make sure my answers work for the same time. It's perfect yeah.

02:53:43 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Get them both done. Paris Martin writes for the information. She's a wizard, she's wonderful. We're thrilled to have her as part of the show now. So is the entire audience. We have nothing positive comments everywhere, absolutely.

02:53:59 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I'm actually a sorcerer in Baldur's Gate and DND, but a wizard I'll take.

02:54:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
What did I? What did I? Character? I can't remember what character. I think it was a necromancer or a sorcerer. I like casting spells from a distance, to be honest.

02:54:12 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Casting spells is nice.

02:54:13 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You could say like do a big fireball I don't want to get in a melee situation, I just other people can hack and slash, it's not, for I'm going to throw a quick spell If you want to signal her to six, seven, seven, nine, seven, eight, six, five, five only with the best tips. If you work for a big tech company, give her some time your companies are doing yeah. What are you working on right now? A big story, anything that we want to pay attention to.

02:54:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I am working on a story in the health tech world and actually, if you were a person out there who work has insight into how medical billing works. Oh, what a mess that is. You know it's. It's a real mess. I'm trying to comprehend it with my puny little human brain and it's difficult.

02:55:04 - Leo Laporte (Host)
The rule is never pay the first bill.

02:55:09 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yes, but yet all of these startups exist to try and solve it and they're all having varying degrees of success.

02:55:18 - Leo Laporte (Host)
It's a real mess. Yeah, the informationcom. If you're not a subscriber, you're missing out on the best tech reportage out there. They've got so many good people and in fact, I just subscribed to all your newsletters.

02:55:32 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Oh, good luck.

02:55:34 - Leo Laporte (Host)
No, I'm using this really nice tool called omnivore that is a newsletter for newsletter, so everything goes into the omnivore. See, I literally am subscribing to all your newsletters.

02:55:44 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Wow, that's yeah.

02:55:46 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah.

02:55:46 - Paris Martineau (Host)
We send one out every time we do an article.

02:55:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, and then a big technology Alex Cantrowitz, and some sub stacks, but it all goes into this reader, which is really nice.

02:55:56 - Paris Martineau (Host)
That's so fun. Do you like this?

02:55:58 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah, Omnivore, it's open source, it's free and it does a pretty good. Well, it didn't do that one. It's not rendering that one right. I clicked it but maybe it didn't hear about this. Yeah, there you go. You can see it renders it pretty much like you're reading it. On the information, it does a good job and it has I have a custom email address, plus it does tagging. So all of your colleagues newsletters are here. There's.

02:56:23 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Nick, yeah, it's just he's. Uh, he recently did a briefing, so that makes sense.

02:56:28 - Leo Laporte (Host)
He's good. Yeah, that's why I subscribed to them all. Thank you, paris, appreciate it, thanks guys. Watch out for that Monster.

02:56:38 - Paris Martineau (Host)
It's creeping up behind you, I think it's going to take over one of these days getting ever closer or the cat, one or the other you're doing. She's trying her best.

02:56:48 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Jeff Jarvis. He is let me read it to you Once more the director of the 10 night center for entrepreneurial journalism at the Craig. Newmark school journalism at the city university of New York and Ponderosa kitchen manager.

02:57:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I was indeed. Yes, I did tell you how I made true chef salad right.

02:57:15 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I don't want to know. Gutenberg is his latest book, but tomorrow the magazine book comes out. Where can we get that it?

02:57:23 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
does go to Gutenberg parenthesiscom and you can get a 20% discount on this little book, which is not expensive, right.

02:57:29 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Object lessons magazine. Take a closer look at their aesthetic.

02:57:33 - Paris Martineau (Host)
right there I'm going to buy it right now. Yeah.

02:57:36 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I can't wait to. I love magazines. Jeff people probably know this was the founder of entertainment weekly, worked at people, worked at a condi, worked everywhere and knows about the magazine business TV guide. And this is this. This is the story of the magazine, which is a shame because I thought magazines are great. It's a pretty much a going a going medium, a dawn, dawn medium, although the other day I was at Barnes and Noble in Santa Rosa and they magazine rack goes on for miles.

02:58:08 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
I asked the clerk and the numbers in here that they said they have 2200 titles more at Christmas with more cookie magazines but a lot of them are published once a year or once every quarter or once only period or death tribute things. Yeah, so people must be buying. I get to tell the story of EW's launch, but also it's the history of magazines and what they meant for society, which was a lot of fun.

02:58:33 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I'm sad I still. Uh, you know, I get the New York, I get a lot of magazines, but I don't get the paper versions anymore. I just get the. I don't anymore. I used to buy them by the patterns?

02:58:43 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Do I have the most paper magazines delivered?

02:58:45 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Tell us what magazines you get. What magazines do you get?

02:58:48 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I get wired magazine, I get New York magazine, I get a Bloomberg business week.

02:58:55 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I subscribe to those and the New Yorker and the New York times at all digital. No Wall Street Journal.

02:59:01 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I love a physical magazine, the economist.

02:59:04 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
They used to have to piles up like guilt. They used to have to double bag me at Hudson. Yeah, the newsstand.

02:59:12 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Yeah.

02:59:13 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Look, just the other day I took a picture of it. There is a New York city newsstand which was horribly designed because you can barely see the headlines or anything. There's one right by the New York Times with no newspapers and no magazines None, none, none. That's sad.

02:59:28 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I will say the day after uh Biden won the most recent election. Uh or no, it was the day after the coup happened or the coup attempt. I walked all over Brooklyn for like hours, genuinely three or four hours, trying to find a place that would sell me a paper and newspaper. Could not find it. I went to four different places label newsstand could not get one.

02:59:50 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Did you want, like just the front page to frame or keep as a history?

02:59:53 - Paris Martineau (Host)
Yeah, I was like you know it's like a momentous moment.

02:59:56 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
Let's get one During the revolution, mom. You know I searched.

03:00:01 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I wandered Papers everywhere.

03:00:05 - Paris Martineau (Host)
I went to a place called the newsstand and I was like, do you have the newspaper? And they were like no are you kidding me?

03:00:10 - Leo Laporte (Host)
You can't go on New York city streets and buy a newspaper, newspaper, newspaper anymore.

03:00:17 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
The only place in the train station or the bus station in Manhattan, otherwise you just can't find them. Oh my God, they used to be on every corner. There used to be the honest out of town newsstand. Then there were the fashion newsstands that had all the European magazines that makes me sad.

03:00:32 - Leo Laporte (Host)
I blame the AI Gutenberg parenthesiscom. The new book is out. Magazine 20% off at checkout. If you go there. Gutenberg parenthesiscom. I don't want to end the show because I love hanging out with you guys, but I guess we have to. Paris Martin, oh, jeff Jarvis, thank you, real pleasure hanging out. Aunt will be back next week. I hope you will come back to hang out with us. We do the show on Wednesdays to PM Pacific, 5 PM Eastern. The United States goes to daylight. No goes to standard time Sunday.

03:01:09 - Jeff Jarvis (Host)
So we have. We have a class that I teach every Wednesday for our executive program. Half the students are from Europe. They all came in an hour late. Yeah, Because Europe's gone to some as left summertime age.

03:01:19 - Leo Laporte (Host)
Anyway, we will finally leave summertime on Sunday. That means that while our time, from our point of view, is still 2 PM, it is now 2200 UTC. So start next week 2200 UTC. And I only say that because you can watch us live if you want to. You certainly don't have to. It's a podcast. You can watch it at your leisure at any time. But if you want to watch live, the stream is at twittv slash live watching live. Then chat with us in our discord. I love having the live interaction with our fans. It's so, so much fun. Of course, you have to be a club twit member. Don't forget Twittv slash club twit. After the fact, on demand, add supportive versions of the show available for free at our website. Twittv slash twig. There's also a this week in Google channel on YouTube. Best thing to do is subscribe in your favorite podcast player. That way you'll get it automatically as soon as we're done editing it, taking out all the cuss words in the nudity. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you next time this week in Google.

03:02:21 - Scott Wilkinson (Other)
Hey there, scott Wilkinson here. In case you hadn't heard, home Theater Geeks is back. Each week I bring you the latest audio video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your AV system, product reviews and more. You can enjoy Home Theater Geeks only if you're a member of Club Twit, which costs seven bucks a month, or you can subscribe to Home Theater Geeks by itself for only $2.99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of Home Theater Geek-a-tude.