This Week in Google 714, Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiG This Week in Google. Stacey, Jeff, and Ant are all here. We'll talk about Bluesky versus Mastodon, the CEO of Alphabet. Sundar Pichai goes to the White House tomorrow. Google adds Passkeys. We'll talk about the pros and cons and is at the end of the line for Vice. It's all coming up next on TWiG
Narrator (00:00:23):
Podcasts You love From people you trust. This is TWiT.
Leo Laporte (00:00:34):
This is TWiG This Week in Google. Episode 714, recorded Wednesday, May 3rd, 2023, Stuck in an Elevator with the Crypto Boys. This Week in Google is brought to you by Miro. Miro is your team's online workspace to connect, collaborate and create together. Tap into a way to map processes, systems, and plans with a whole team. Get your first three boards for free and start creating your best work yet at miro.com/podcast.
(00:01:09):
It's time for TWiG this weekend. Google the show we cover. Well. We've decided pretty much everything in the world, including we're gonna add a new AI section to the show. Hello everybody. I'm Leo Laporte, sitting to my right, Stacey Higginbotham. Hello, Stacey from staceyoniot.com and the fabulous IoT podcast with Kevin Tofel. Stacey is our chip and IoT guru. Ant Pruitt's also here from Hands-on Photography. He is also our Hello Community manager. So he is our, our, I try our arts and sciences guy. <Laugh> Our Arts, actually. Yes, Stacey. Science, you're art. It's perfect. It's perfect. And then where does that, what does that leave for? The Leonard Top professor for journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark <laugh> Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York. He's got his Galleys. Are those the galleys?
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:04):
Galleys those are the galleys.
Leo Laporte (00:02:06):
For the Guttenberg Parenthesis Yeah. I was not sure because usually galleys have many, many post-it notes in the Mar <laugh> in the margins. But you have just gotten,
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:18):
It's too late to change anything
Leo Laporte (00:02:18):
And Oh, it's too late. That's the, I thought, oh, yeah,
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:21):
Yeah. It's too late. I
Leo Laporte (00:02:21):
Thought, that's not the author's, that's the author's copy. Not the last show. You should never
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:26):
Read it after, after that version. Well, I, I put something in my, I i I cut and paste a paragraph into my post about Ben Smith's book, which by the way is very good. Which I also,
Leo Laporte (00:02:35):
Oh, yeah, I, I have that on pre-order. Yeah. It actually means that's in my, my memoirs
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:39):
Now. I, and I found a, a typo in the paragraph that I cut and paste.
Leo Laporte (00:02:43):
Oh God. Greatly. So maybe you should just have cut and paste the whole book and then you would've quickly found Yeah,
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:48):
All
Leo Laporte (00:02:49):
The typos, all the errors.
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:51):
By the way, this is very good. This is very good.
Leo Laporte (00:02:52):
Oh, I can't wait to read it. I wrote, I wrote
Jeff Jarvis (00:02:54):
A post about it on Medium.
Leo Laporte (00:02:55):
I'd love to get Ben on one of the shows. He's too big. Try that. He's too big. A big shot. Probably. He might not,
Jeff Jarvis (00:03:01):
He wants to wrote the book. Yeah. His first
Leo Laporte (00:03:02):
One. You know, what's gonna be on, on Sunday. Stacey, your, your old colleague from GigaOm Janko Roettgers.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:03:09):
Janko. He was gonna be my pick of the week.
Leo Laporte (00:03:11):
Okay, good. I won't say anything then. Your pick of the week is gonna be on Sunday.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:03:17):
He, he, he deserves it all.
Leo Laporte (00:03:19):
Exactly. Speaking of new books. Yeah. I think Janko's great. And I can't wait to have him on. This is, you know, it's funny, last Sunday, kind of without planning it, we had the perfect panel for bl the Bluesky Adventures we had Jeff was on, which was, we just
Jeff Jarvis (00:03:37):
Happened to have four people who actually were in Bluesky, which helped a lot.
Leo Laporte (00:03:40):
Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:03:41):
I wanna be in Bluesky.
Leo Laporte (00:03:42):
I have an invite I'll send you if you want to. I wish I could, I wish I could send you my account. <Laugh>.
Ant Pruitt (00:03:48):
Okay, hold
Stacey Higginbotham (00:03:49):
On. Hey, hey. Hey. How
Ant Pruitt (00:03:50):
You're, Hey, can I, can I jump in here and ask a question? Yeah. She wants to be in Bluesky. Yes. Why maam. But, but why But not Mastodon?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:04:02):
Because Bluesky looks more familiar to what I'm, or more familiar and less work on my end.
Ant Pruitt (00:04:08):
So it's just a t-shirt that it's wearing regardless of what's under the t-shirt?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:04:12):
No, I think it's, it's a t-shirt that doesn't have a lot of complicated snaps and issues with it that I'd have to fix. You
Leo Laporte (00:04:18):
Know, Ant, it's
Stacey Higginbotham (00:04:19):
A t-shirt that I wear like a t-shirt,
Leo Laporte (00:04:21):
To be fair, you raised this point in our TWiT community in our forums, that normal people are baffled by Mastodon. Whereas if you're already on Twitter, Bluesky is just like Twitter. In fact, there is, that's
Jeff Jarvis (00:04:34):
Why Normies liked post news until they found out it was boring.
Leo Laporte (00:04:37):
Right. Does it look
Jeff Jarvis (00:04:38):
Familiar
Leo Laporte (00:04:39):
<Laugh>? Well, and I have to point out that Bluesky has kind of the same flaw as post news, which is, at least for now, it's centralized and it's got Jack Dorsey all over it. I have to say he's on Nostr. Pardon me?
Jeff Jarvis (00:04:55):
He's on Nostr. He's not
Leo Laporte (00:04:57):
On Bluesky. He's over, well, he's on both. He's he's on Nostr too. And he's funded both. Right. He put money into both. Nostr is another attempt to capitalize on Twitter's failure. And it's also decentralized in theory, but not in practice. Neither Bluesky or Nostr yet is Yes. Federated. Whereas Mastodon is, and every time I go on a Bluesky, I go, why? It's starting to be a lot like Twitter. And I don't mean that. It's, it's, I don't mean that in a good way. Pixel. Huh?
Jeff Jarvis (00:05:31):
It's like pixel for pixel, like Twitter.
Leo Laporte (00:05:34):
Yeah. Well, not only looks like it, but, but it all of the poop,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:05:37):
The poop, I see the people I already follow.
Leo Laporte (00:05:39):
Yeah. Yes. That's exactly what they did. They brought off. That's exactly it. They brought on. See,
Ant Pruitt (00:05:43):
I thought it the whole town this was was federated, decentralized. In
Leo Laporte (00:05:47):
Theory it will be, but it is not yet. Yeah, it is really at this point. Exactly. Like Twitter, they sent out it's invite only but they sent out enough 50,000 that they've got, you know, and they're, you know, they already have a CNN anchor on there who's mentioning what they call Skeets, which is the horrible name. Oh. Oh boy.
Jeff Jarvis (00:06:11):
Jay, Jay does not one. She does not like that.
Leo Laporte (00:06:13):
The CEO doesn't like skeets cuz it has a sexual connotation. Right. I think it's kind of a cute name, but I think I thought it should be, but now
Jeff Jarvis (00:06:21):
I have to go look up.
Leo Laporte (00:06:22):
No, no, don't, don't you know what it means, <laugh>? I wanted to, I don't, I want it to be BLEETS cuz it's Bluesky, so it should be bleach. Oh, I like
Jeff Jarvis (00:06:31):
That. Bleets. Nice.
Leo Laporte (00:06:32):
You could have a little lamb anyway. It's too late. No, it's too late. Guess what? And in fact, that's kind of my reaction to Bluesky. Like Yeah, they have all these great plans to be federated and have all sorts of moderation capabilities, blah, blah, blah. It's too late. <Laugh>, I think
Jeff Jarvis (00:06:48):
I just had a fascinating discussion. I, I called Dave Weiner to interview him for, for the book I'm working on now. I just got off the phone with him. And he said that that Roko at, at Mastodon had the benefit of being under the radar Yes. For a couple years. Yes. And he said Bluesky is out He said everything's gonna happen in two weeks. Yes. They're two public now. They're
Leo Laporte (00:07:08):
Speed running the moderation curve in Mike Masnick's phrase
Jeff Jarvis (00:07:12):
Thats what Mike Masnick would say, Yes.
Leo Laporte (00:07:13):
And I think that's exactly it. And, and Mastodon, I kinda like, because just as you say Ant, it is a little kind of confusing. So only people are strongly motivated to be there. Are there,
Jeff Jarvis (00:07:25):
Which Stacey is that she doesn't wanna be with us there. And
Leo Laporte (00:07:27):
That's all right. I, you know, I honestly, I think it's, in a way it's good that we have these choices cuz that auto
Jeff Jarvis (00:07:33):
Very much so
Leo Laporte (00:07:33):
Sorts the people <laugh> and those of you who want to be on Bluesky be on Bluesky. That's fine. There is one good thing that Bluesky does, which I, I actually think I wish Mastodon did, which it allows you to create your own hand, you know, handle based on your website that you control or a domain that you control. So instead of being
Jeff Jarvis (00:07:57):
So kind of verification, is it, that makes it like IRL?
Leo Laporte (00:08:01):
Sort of, except that it's right there. So if you wanted, so I was Leo Laporte @bluesky.social or whatever it was. But you can easily go in there if you control, if you have the, it's very geeky, but you have to, it's harder to do than rel.me. If you have DNS control of a domain as I do for Leo laporte.me, you can make that be your handle. So if you search for LeoLaporte.Me on Bluesky, or in theory it's Federated Affiliates. It will always be me cuz it's my That's mine. So that is smart. So
Jeff Jarvis (00:08:34):
I could do it to Stacey Higginbotham? Yes. Because I own that domain.
Leo Laporte (00:08:39):
You could be, as long as you control DNS, you have to put a text field.
Jeff Jarvis (00:08:42):
You happen to have someone in the house who's very knowledgeable.
Leo Laporte (00:08:44):
I bet Stacey could do it. It's just a text. She knows
Jeff Jarvis (00:08:48):
No, Andrew will do it. Yeah. Yes. See, <laugh>, there's that. I
Leo Laporte (00:08:52):
Wasn't gonna assume it, honey.
Jeff Jarvis (00:08:54):
I mean, you don't
Stacey Higginbotham (00:08:54):
Have to, he he does handle all of that. So I don't have to, I have to,
Leo Laporte (00:08:59):
You have other things worry
Stacey Higginbotham (00:09:00):
We worry about different things.
Leo Laporte (00:09:00):
More important things. Have you tried others? Leo, have you tried Spoutable? No, I don't wanna be on, I've, I'm really done with the Cent with centralized. I think what Elon did to Twitter is, is very likely to happen to others. And it was a favor in the end. I got on Bluesky had high hopes for it. Still do. I guess I like the at Protocol. There's nothing wrong with it, but I'm, I'm, the more I use Bluesky, the more how happy I am about Mastodon on. I just, I really think this is my home and I can read my home feed now. I've followed enough people, I've figured out, you know, there's enough good people on there that I could follow this and really get everything that I want from mastodon. Twitter, I still go to Twitter once in a while cuz you know, if you want to know what's happening at the Met Gala, that's <laugh>. Mastodon is not the place to go.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:09:49):
There was a roach,
Leo Laporte (00:09:52):
I saw the roach video and I, what I really loved was all the cameras following the roach up the steps of the Met Gala. Horrible. <laugh>. Well, horrible. Was it? But here's the question. Was it really a roach or was it just Doja cat in in disguise. <Laugh>. It was Jared Ledos third costume. Third outfit. He went as a cat, as did Doja cat. But I,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:16):
No, he went as Chupe. It's very important. It's not just any cat.
Leo Laporte (00:10:21):
It's the cat. It's Carl's cat. Carl's cat. I don't really wanna honor Carl cuz I think he was a loathsome individual. Very nice designer. Yeah. But not such a nice guy. And body shamed people and all sorts of stuff. And I, yeah,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:34):
Total, total
Leo Laporte (00:10:35):
Jerk. Yeah. So anyway, but we are not gonna, we talked about the Met Gala last year and got a lot of heat. So no fashion. No fashion. No fashion. I was gonna ask Stacy for a tour. The Met Gala and then you've cut off. Okay. What was your favorite outfit?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:52):
Mine?
Leo Laporte (00:10:55):
Oh, I'm embarrassed to admit that Lisa and I pulled up the Vogue Live stream of it <laugh> on Friday.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:02):
Oh no, I watched and watched it. Yeah, I watched that. I mean, it's awesome. Like Doja Cat did a lot of work on the fake cat.
Leo Laporte (00:11:08):
I like Doja cats. Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:12):
But my favorite all in outfit was probably actually Bad Bunny's Tux because Oh, you don't see a lot of innovation in a tux. And his tux was white and, and normal in the front, and then backless in the back. And then his handlers also had a backless tuck and they did some cool jewelry action. And then he had that beautiful flower cake
Leo Laporte (00:11:33):
I kinda liked Pedro Pascal's. Look, <laugh>.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:38):
No,
Leo Laporte (00:11:39):
No. He didn't like that. That
Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:40):
Did the least.
Leo Laporte (00:11:42):
That's the only thing I saw Adam Vasari was Pascals. One of my, my friends. The Internet's daddy absolutely adores him. Here's bad bunny. I like
Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:53):
Eden now wait till you get the back. Yeah, hold on. You're gonna see it. You gotta turn around maybe.
Leo Laporte (00:11:57):
So you gotta turn around. I
Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:58):
Hope so. Turn around. Its otherwise what's the point?
Leo Laporte (00:12:01):
It looks very stiff. Oh, that's weird there. It's,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:02):
Oh my,
Leo Laporte (00:12:03):
That's
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:03):
Very, I like it. I, you'd never see interesting things in men's wear and that I feel could be doable. All right. Moving right along.
Leo Laporte (00:12:10):
I am really sorry. I did not mean <laugh> to get sucked into the vortex. There's Okay, I gotta show you Pedro Pascal, just so you know, audience.
Jeff Jarvis (00:12:20):
What musicals?
Leo Laporte (00:12:21):
Oh, they
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:21):
Hate this in Jared Lito. Show him Chupe show him the cat costumes. Okay. That was Amazings.
Leo Laporte (00:12:25):
Yeah. Yeah. And he had underneath that a regular outfit. That was cool too. This was his regular outfit where he looks like the Prince of Darkness. Let's see if they have his,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:35):
Janelle Monet did a good job
Leo Laporte (00:12:36):
Too. Love Janelle Monets Tom
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:38):
Brow. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:12:39):
Can you believe Lil Nas X? And I won't turn him around.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:42):
I was just like, oh my God. But he was scampering around like a little puck. I was, yeah. Oh
Leo Laporte (00:12:46):
My gosh. But the, the mask was really cool. It was really cool. It's quads. Look at, this is the mass <laugh>. Oh yeah. No, I told, I said, Lisa, he's got a better butt than you do. But that was not Well, I was about
Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:56):
To say his butt is really,
Leo Laporte (00:12:58):
That wasn't taken well, <laugh>, I, I <laugh> he did and he doesn't, I might add. Okay. Just wanna be clear about that. Boy. Where is where is
Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:10):
I would just google Jared Lito
Leo Laporte (00:13:12):
Chupe. Oh yeah, that's a good idea.
Jeff Jarvis (00:13:15):
Sorry
Leo Laporte (00:13:15):
Chuck. It was a good yeah, this is the musical theater of, of Twy. Exactly. I'm so sorry. Yeah. <laugh>. How do you spell Chupe? C H O U
Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:26):
C H O U P E T T E. Okay.
Leo Laporte (00:13:29):
Google
Jeff Jarvis (00:13:30):
Will fix it for you.
Leo Laporte (00:13:31):
Look at that. Don't worry. The, the, the face was really well done. I mean,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:34):
The face was
Leo Laporte (00:13:36):
Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Very believable.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:39):
I mean, when he showed up, everyone was like, what?
Leo Laporte (00:13:42):
And he was dancing around shoe pat. There he is. I got
Jeff Jarvis (00:13:46):
A question for you. So between, I saw Buzzfeed did a feature about what they wore at the gala and then at the after party. And they all also had another outfit for the after party. So did they have like a locker room? And they all change
Leo Laporte (00:13:57):
It too? Yeah, they all did. How changes?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:58):
Oh, did you not read? Okay. The New York Times did this great thing ahead of one of the big, like the Grammys or something, and it was all about how they get them dressed. They drive them in a sprinter van standing up. So they arrive must and then they go to a hotel. They've all booked a hotel that's near the venue. And then they go back and they change into their second look of the night. And
Leo Laporte (00:14:23):
Oh, this is by the way, so late stage capitalist. This is what exactly at the end of the Roman Empire. I think they were doing something like this.
Jeff Jarvis (00:14:31):
This and the coronation this weekend.
Leo Laporte (00:14:33):
Oh God. The coronation. I decided I wanna live toot the coronation. <Laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (00:14:37):
Oh no. Oh no.
Leo Laporte (00:14:40):
Are you gonna do, so anybody here want to do the pledge of Allegiance to the king? The new King? Oh,
Jeff Jarvis (00:14:46):
Isn't that obnoxious?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:48):
No. Read the room,
Jeff Jarvis (00:14:49):
Chuck.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:50):
Don't I don't do the Pledge of Allegiance to, you know,
Leo Laporte (00:14:53):
To your own country. Our
Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:54):
Flag trigger
Leo Laporte (00:14:56):
<Laugh>. They the amusing ourselves to death, says John. Exactly. Exactly. The archbishop of can archbishop, the arch, the Archbishop of Canterbury the, I call him the Arch Bay, myself of Canterbury, said, if you wish, during the coronation, there will be a a period of time. I guess the last time this happened was 1956. Right. So we don't have a lot of history on how this is done. In, in the past, the nobles would pledge their allegiance to the new monarch on bended knee. You know, my Lesh Lord and all that. Very medieval. But in the new modern social era, the archbishop of Canterbury says, you can all do it. We're, when we do it on tv, just re repeat along. Are you hearing an noise? It's, it's the end times. I'm hearing the noise of, of the world collapsing. Is that what you're talking about? I'm hearing a
Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:56):
I'm hearing a, yeah, a worrying.
Leo Laporte (00:15:59):
Can you guys fix the worrying? It's gone now.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:03):
It's gone. Sorry, I
Jeff Jarvis (00:16:04):
Brought it up. It was probably on its way to being fixed, but this is what happens behind the scenes folks. <Laugh>, this is breaking the fourth screen here.
Leo Laporte (00:16:12):
<Laugh>. It's live. Tooting the Coronation. That's the title of the show already. We have it <laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (00:16:18):
You have to be up at what time to do that.
Leo Laporte (00:16:20):
Oh really? Do we have to be up early to play 11:00 AM
Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:22):
UK time? Oh, that, ooh, that is,
Leo Laporte (00:16:24):
That's 3:00 AM our, our time here. Yeah. Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:28):
A actually, I don't know if it's 11:00 AM Hold on.
Leo Laporte (00:16:31):
Here. Is what time
Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:32):
Is the coronation? <Laugh>?
Leo Laporte (00:16:35):
Well, the cor oh, believe me, it's all day. I mean, I, you're gonna be able to get up at four in the afternoon. 11. It'll still be going on. I'm sure,
Jeff Jarvis (00:16:43):
Because he needs more love.
Leo Laporte (00:16:46):
That's so depressing. Get rid of the
Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:48):
Monies. Let's talk about Google.
Leo Laporte (00:16:50):
Okay. Google is very much in the news today. In fact, the biggest story really should be in the change log. But I'm not gonna bury the lead here this morning. I got up early and signed up for Passkeys. G Google has turned on. Oh, did Passkeys for your Google accounts. This is the new Passwordless technology that the Fido Alliance has been rolling out. Google, apple, many other companies you know, kind of saying they support it. So yeah, and what you do if you go to your Google account, first you have to pay for Wired, then you go to your Google account, <laugh>, <laugh>, which as you know, I have paid for, but I still get this no matter what. Let me go to google.com/um what is it? My account security. I'll try Security. Do security. We keep your personal information.
(00:17:47):
Oh, they're gonna make me log in. Nope, they're not. Okay. your account is protected. If I go into the security settings, it will say, I, it's, and you could see, you can show this. There's nothing, nothing behind. I added a passkey at 6 0 9 this morning. And oh, you already recognized it. It says, so I don't care. I wanna see it. New Pasky added to your account. If you didn't add Pasky, somebody may be using your account. Iphone. So now my iPhone is my Google login, and all I have to do when I wanna log into Google is do the biometrics on the iPhone in this case face id. And I'm logged in. No password required. No second factor required. And some, a number of people have said, you know, do you really want that? This isn't that new? Because I notice I have other PAs. I have a total of four PAs keys on my account. And the reason being, Owen, look at this. I guess I do have to still do a password. So the reason being when I got my Google Pixel and my Samsung, they kind of were added as the single sign-on masters of my account. Hmm. So, but some people complain that the issue is what if you lose, you lose your phone. Right? I think the best way, one issue
Ant Pruitt (00:19:05):
I had, but there's, I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
Leo Laporte (00:19:09):
Well, don't, because you
Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:11):
<Laugh> Well, do they have like recovery codes?
Leo Laporte (00:19:13):
You have all the same, you, you don't, you're not giving up any of the other ways you had to log into Google. Okay. So you still just adding a new password
Ant Pruitt (00:19:21):
To your account,
Leo Laporte (00:19:22):
Right? Yeah. You still have all of that stuff. Okay. The but the risk if you lost your phone and it wasn't locked or somebody could figure out your screen. And of course the Wall Street journal's been going crazy over this at like, I don't, I don't know how legit it is that, oh my God, people are shoulders surfing. You getting your, your login and then stealing your life. And they have like three people this happened to. I don't think it's that common. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:45):
I don't even have have to say it.
Leo Laporte (00:19:46):
Thank you Anne. Yeah. Shoulder, you don't even have to say it. Or if you stole my phone with it unlocked, like I unlocked it and then I put it down on the bar and then you just snarfed it and kept it unlocked. Well, at that point, but see, you still need the face ID when I go to Google, see the should
Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:02):
Face ID surfing,
Leo Laporte (00:20:04):
Shoulder surfing my passcode to get into the phone,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:08):
Like looking over your shoulder to see the
Leo Laporte (00:20:10):
Yeah. He's never heard that phrase. Yeah,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:12):
No, that's <laugh> like, I'm like, yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:20:15):
That's why. Well, you can thank shoulder surfing for the dots that you always get when you're trying to enter a password <laugh> and you can't see what you're entering. Well that's to prevent shoulder surfing.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:26):
So if I'm logging into my Gmail account on the web, on my computer, what the process for me then looks like, I then pick up my phone in.
Leo Laporte (00:20:37):
Well, that's always been here. Yeah. You you've probably seen that when you're Google, when you go to your Google account after you enter the password, the two-factor can also be logged into your phone. You've seen that. Right? Right. Right.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:48):
Yeah. I, yeah, I have, I have two factor on my right. So I'm just trying to figure out what the normal,
Leo Laporte (00:20:53):
This eliminates that experience
Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:54):
With this is.
Leo Laporte (00:20:55):
I think that will eliminate the password part one on one D. So I've been trying different ways. It did not happen here. And one of the ways, what, on one of my systems, I got a QR code, which I then had to use on the passkey enabled device to enable the new ADVI device. But I noticed here that they
Stacey Higginbotham (00:21:20):
Want my, the QR code with
Leo Laporte (00:21:21):
Your code. Yeah. Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:21:23):
Okay.
Leo Laporte (00:21:24):
So that, that's in theory how Pasky would work if you went, so let's say you signed up for the Macy's site. You could, it could show you a QR code, which you would then use your pasky. Your phone is now your pasky, right? Your phone has this in, you know, Pasky store and you would then scan the QR code. The phone would do face ID or touch ID and the, and Macy's would let you in without a password. That's the idea.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:21:48):
Is that the equivalent of doing sign-in with Google? So Google's gonna now know exactly where I'm signing in. If I with
Leo Laporte (00:21:53):
Oh, that's an interest. The privacy question, I don't even think of that. Right?
Ant Pruitt (00:21:56):
Is it stored on the vice or is this cloud-based? That was my
Leo Laporte (00:22:00):
Question. So not all PAs keys go through Google.
Ant Pruitt (00:22:03):
Okay. Okay.
Leo Laporte (00:22:04):
Pasky is not a Google thing. It's a it's a phyto alliance thing.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:22:08):
Right. but if Google is running,
Leo Laporte (00:22:11):
No. In fact, PAs, even when I log in with Pasky to Google, iCloud stores the key not Google. So the device stores the key and Apple does not know what I have in my Pasky storage. No. That would violate the whole process. That's a secure en
Stacey Higginbotham (00:22:30):
So baby, basically Google's now allowing this PAs key to be used to sign into its sites.
Leo Laporte (00:22:35):
Yes. And if you use a Google phone, it's a secure enclave on the Google phone. But it doesn't not get passed on to Google, I don't think. No, I'm sure it doesn't. Got it. That would, that would mean it's not secure. It'd be stupid.
Jeff Jarvis (00:22:47):
May I add something here?
Leo Laporte (00:22:48):
Yes. <laugh>. <Laugh>. Yeah. I mean, if you think MAs it on is complicated, guess what?
Jeff Jarvis (00:22:56):
No, no, no, no, no. That's not it. Okay. That's not it. Guess why I met, guess why Jeff is met? Oh,
Leo Laporte (00:23:01):
Because you have a work, you have a work worksheets account, whatever it's called workplace account. Oh, right. And does it not work with that?
Jeff Jarvis (00:23:08):
No. And so it says, well Sue, you're administrator. Well, I'm the administrator, where's a mirror? And then I go and I try to search for workplace, whatever the hell's called this week. And pasky. And there's nothing, there's not like even outta luck sucker or weight or nothing. I'm the second class citizen again, Google.
Leo Laporte (00:23:26):
So something like this seems like it should roll out. Exactly. Work workspace first before
Ant Pruitt (00:23:31):
I regular out to the regular folks like me.
Jeff Jarvis (00:23:34):
Right, right, right. In fact, on our school end, we were not compliant and everybody in the whole school had to do two factors so we could be compliant with Google's standards. Right. Higher, higher security. And, and so what they have is on what they would like, I guess argue are lower standards. Now, pisses me off.
Leo Laporte (00:23:54):
Are you eating for that, Stacy? Are you eating a sponge or is it just a really big cookie? <Laugh>. I'm sorry. That was mean. <Laugh>. All right, back to Pasky so long. This is the Google blogs SCR security blog post. So long passwords. Thanks for all the fish. Little tip of the hat to the hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy starting today. You can create and use Pasky on your personal not workspace, personal Google account. When you do, Google will not ask you for your password or two-step verification when you sign in you know, in a way this is like a YubiKey or a, you know, a hardware security key. The difference is with the hardware security key, I can have a back, you should have a backup key in the safe at home or somewhere the secure. So if you lose one key, you still got the backup. Key PAs keys they say are a more convenient and safer alternative to passwords that work on all major platforms and browsers. And this is the mechanics allow users to sign in by unlocking their computer or mobile device with their fingerprint face recognition or a local pin. So now you're, it's a, it's a PAs key in the sense that that device is, is like a security key. It's the PAs key.
Ant Pruitt (00:25:12):
And I guess the transition from old device to new device will be fairly seamless as long as you still have your original
Leo Laporte (00:25:19):
Password. Yeah. So when I set this up on the iPhone, oh, that's a good point. Well, when I set the, yeah, this is a big issue. When I set this up on the iPhone, Google said, okay, your iCloud secure enclave now has the key. So that's up to Apple. Now to give me a way to migrate that and Oh geez, I don't think there is, I think this is a little complicated to be honest. App, I think Apple will let you export it to, or, or move it to another Apple device. But I don't think they have a mechanism for moving it to an Android device. Now I don't. Yeah. Right. And we, forgive me if I'm wrong and if some, if I'm wrong, please correct me. Holiday will <laugh> <laugh>. Yeah, no, I know, but we've been talking about this. No, this started months ago, right?
(00:26:07):
With Apple's announcement and Google's announcement and we've been talking about it on security now. We've talked about it on this show and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it's still a little fuzzy. It says, unlike passwords, Passkeys can only exist on your devices. Again, this is Google. They cannot be written down <laugh> or accidentally given to a bad actor. When you use a passkey to sign into your Google account, it proves to Google you have access to your device and are unable to unlock it together. This means a pasky protect you against fishing. Right. Cuz a bad guy doesn't have your device or the pasky and accidental mishandling, the passwords are prone to such as being reused or exposed in a data breach. So that's the good news. This is stronger. This is what Google says. And I don't know, I dunno if I agree with this.
(00:26:53):
This is stronger protection than most two factor of methods offered today. Which is why we allow you to skip not only the password, but also the second factor when you use PAs keys. In fact, pasky are strong enough they can stand in for security keys for our advanced protection program. That's quite interesting. That's that, that's the program Google offers to members of Congress and other high target high value targets to extra protection. You have to have two hardware keys. It's a very, you know, it's a, and you lose a lot of functionality. So this is, I guess if you believe all this, this is good. Creating a PAs key on your Google account makes it an option for sign in. This is important. Existing methods, including your password will still work in case you need them. For example, when using devices that don't support PAs keys yet.
(00:27:45):
So really you could still fail back to the old way. Pasky are still new and it will take some time before they work everywhere. However, creating a PAs key today still comes a security benefits as it allows us to pay closer attention. Oh, that's interesting. To the sign-ins that fall back to passwords. So maybe they're gonna, that's a signal. Maybe this isn't the most secure. Maybe this is, we should take a look at this over time. Will increasingly, oh now this, this, you could take two ways over time. We will increasingly scrutinize password logins as pasky get broader support and familiarity. They're kind of in a way doing what Google often does, which is we are so anxious that you move to this more secure method. We're gonna start deprecating or being suspicious of the old method.
Ant Pruitt (00:28:31):
Right.
Leo Laporte (00:28:32):
Oh. And they are clear. They say that Google does not in any way get access to this information. And I think that's the case with Apple as well.
Ant Pruitt (00:28:42):
When I first saw this news, the first thing that came to my mind was if I go to log into my Google account on a different laptop here at the house, it does the little send the notification to
Leo Laporte (00:28:55):
Whatever device. That's a signon thing. Yeah.
Ant Pruitt (00:28:57):
And I'm like, dang it. And it always sends it to some other
Leo Laporte (00:29:01):
Device to get up, never
Ant Pruitt (00:29:02):
To the phone. That's right here in,
Leo Laporte (00:29:04):
So Apple, apple gets heat for doing the opposite. It sends it to every device, including the device you're using to log in at this moment. Right? It says is are you, is that you? Yes, it's me <laugh>. So there, I don't know what the right answer is on that though. Good security ant means you have to walk around your house.
Ant Pruitt (00:29:21):
Exactly. I'm like, dude, man, that thing's in the car and it's sending it to the car and Oh,
Leo Laporte (00:29:26):
It's, so the other thing about Pasky is you can create a PASKY for every device. So you can in theory have a PAs key on all your devices. So you don't have to go up and get any device.
Ant Pruitt (00:29:36):
Okay, well that, that I feel better.
Leo Laporte (00:29:38):
Now in addition is Scooter X Oh, go ahead. Yes, go ahead.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:41):
He says that you'll be able to store, manage and use your Passkeys in one password, which would help with the Yes. Moving from device to device. I don't
Leo Laporte (00:29:48):
Know if that's one password has announced support for this. I imagine all password managers will eventually, there's a little caveat there because that I was
Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:56):
About to say if we're still into the password.
Leo Laporte (00:29:58):
Yeah, well it also, it also re Yeah of course this is their way of staying current. But you, but how do you get the pasky into one password? Since it's living in my secure enclave on my phone, this requires Apple to allow you to export it. And currently they don't. They allow you to move it but not export it. I don't know this, there's a lot of questions. This, this stuff is brand new. For example, if you create, this is again Google. In addition, some platforms securely back your PAs keys up and sync them to other devices you own. For example, if you create a PAs key on your iPhone, that PAs key will be available on your other Apple devices as long as you're on the same iCloud account. That's why they call it an iCloud PAs key. Cause it's stored in the secure enclave and iCloud.
(00:30:40):
This protects you from being locked out of your account if you lose a device and it makes it easier for you to upgrade. So when I get a new iPhone, in theory the PAs key is, is in the cloud and will be passed over to that. I think that still lives in a secure hardware enclave on the device, but I think it's copied from MyCloud somehow. If you wanna sign in on a device for the first time, a new device or temporarily use somebody else's device, you can use a pasky stored in your phone to do. So. You wanna know how on a new device you just selected?
Jeff Jarvis (00:31:11):
I don't know because I'm left out of it. But Go ahead
Ant Pruitt (00:31:15):
<Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (00:31:16):
So your pixel isn't, doesn't isn't on your personal account?
Jeff Jarvis (00:31:20):
My personal account is my Google work account cuz that's how I could use Buzz Machine.
Leo Laporte (00:31:23):
Got it. On the new device, you just select the option to use a pasky from another device and follow the prompts. That's interest. So that's more like what you're used to. An where you sign into Google and then it says, oh, go get your pixel. Yeah, you can, you can manually tell it. I want to do that, but it doesn't, this does not automatically transfer the paske to the new device. It only uses your phone's screen lock and proximity. So you do have to go get it and put it next to it. I guess it's using Bluetooth LE or something to approve a one time sign-in. If the new device supports storing its own PAs keys, we can then ask separately, oh you wanna make one on the new device? So eventually, I guess the premise is all your devices will have the PAs key Yeah. On it, right? I'm down for that. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (00:32:07):
I just have this vision you kind of brought up in, if your car is working with this and you lose your phone or you can't get in your car to go home to find the thing in your locker at home, to turn on the phone to get the car going and then you're screwed
Leo Laporte (00:32:20):
Well's another if you lose your car keys, <laugh>, you're screwed too. Well
Jeff Jarvis (00:32:23):
You're not gonna have car keys anymore. Leo. Oh
Stacey Higginbotham (00:32:25):
Dude, I just wrote about
Ant Pruitt (00:32:26):
The digital
Stacey Higginbotham (00:32:27):
Standard. Actually
Ant Pruitt (00:32:28):
Ccc, I put it in. Yeah, the ccc.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:32:31):
Oh, thanks aunt.
Ant Pruitt (00:32:32):
So I was curious to hear your thoughts on it. But anyway, we'll get to that.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:32:37):
But yeah, that's a digital car key, so that's totally different.
Leo Laporte (00:32:39):
Yeah. And I have a digital, the Caskey car key and it's horrible. I wish I didn't <laugh>
Stacey Higginbotham (00:32:43):
Well this one doesn't work like yours. It's a new
Leo Laporte (00:32:46):
Oh yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:32:47):
Jesus
Leo Laporte (00:32:49):
<Laugh> the dog scares her. So I dog scares me. I finally have a dog. We just wanna let you know. Yeah, just in case you weren't sure. That's all. Go, go get, you know what, she might like that sponge you were eating. So this is, this is the PAs keys. This is my, you could show this. This is my PAs keys interface. So I had already, unbeknownst to me, basically had PAs keys, Android devices automatically create PAs keys for you when you sign on your Google account. So my Galaxy S 23 Ultra, for some reason has two PAs keys, as does my Pixel seven. And then this is the one I created this morning, the iCloud key chain. And then I have, and it's in the same space. These are Yuba keys, these are the, the hardware keys. So any of those will work. Any, these are all considered PAs keys. So in effect, and I think this is, this to me makes sense. Your phone is like a hardware key. It's like a YubiKey mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And that makes sense. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Right. And has the same caveats and concerns. Don't lose it.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:33:47):
A lot of people don't have Yuba keys.
Leo Laporte (00:33:49):
So Yeah. And this is easier than YubiKey. Much easier. Right. And unlike a Yuki, I do have one Yuki that has a a fingerprint reader on it, but it doesn't work very well with anything. <Laugh> don't, don't. So, so unlike the Yuki,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:34:06):
Is it cuz your fingerprints get old away as you get older?
Leo Laporte (00:34:08):
No, it's, it's a, it's a, it's, oh
Stacey Higginbotham (00:34:12):
No, I don't have good fingerprints anymore. I, I never, I can't even come into the country without having to talk to someone.
Leo Laporte (00:34:19):
Yeah. That's why I don't wash dishes. I say Lisa, I have to preserve my fingerprints. <Laugh> nice one. No housework for me. My fingerprints are at all.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:34:28):
So yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't a knock on your age. It was just like, know. Oh, do fingerprints not
Leo Laporte (00:34:32):
Work? No, I just, I like to pretend to be offended. I'm never offended. Really. the YubiKey fingerprint reader, it, it's, it's, if it, if you, if it doesn't recognize your finger, then it locks itself out and you have to launch the Yuki. It's not a good solution. So in a way, this is better because it is biometrics as opposed to just physically having the phone. The phone also has to biometrically recognize you. Right. So I guess it is more secure. I mean, I think it's, I'm sure Steve Gibson will talk about this on Tuesday on security now. But we, and we've talked a lot about pesky and the, the problems. Exporting pesky is one of one of them. There's no guarantee that, you know, apple will let you export your pesky for use on Android, for instance. But I, I'm glad. I'll tell you what Google doing, this is a big story because this opens the floodgate, right? It's been around for months and a few sites have done it, but nobody really does it.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:35:28):
Didn't Microsoft do it? Microsoft was part of
Leo Laporte (00:35:31):
Yeah, they're part of it. The,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:35:32):
Okay. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:35:33):
And there is a directory of sites that support Passkeys. But here's a dirty little secret of that. Most of the websites that support PAs Keys took a shortcut and used a third party.
Ant Pruitt (00:35:45):
Oh, of
Leo Laporte (00:35:45):
Course. To do the PAs key, not their own servers. And so there's some question about whether that's how many
Ant Pruitt (00:35:54):
Banks do you see on there?
Leo Laporte (00:35:56):
Oh, none. No banks ever gonna do this. Best Buy DeNiro, DocuSign, eBay, Google Now Kayak, Microsoft. Nvidia. Okta. That's a security company. Paypal. Oh, there's
Ant Pruitt (00:36:13):
Paypal.
Leo Laporte (00:36:14):
Yeah. Robinhood. That's like a
Ant Pruitt (00:36:16):
Bank
Leo Laporte (00:36:18):
Shop. I see Pastry there. Sure. I think it's gonna be a pastry company,
Ant Pruitt (00:36:20):
But it's not. It pisses me off.
Leo Laporte (00:36:22):
<Laugh> pastry, everything
Ant Pruitt (00:36:24):
Pisses you off today. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:36:26):
And the funny thing is, it even has a cake icon as this logo that's just raw. It's mean. That's
Ant Pruitt (00:36:31):
Just wrong.
Leo Laporte (00:36:31):
Virgin Media, the world of Hya. Yahoo, Japan, not Yahoo anywhere else because that's separate companies, separate soho. Yeah, I don't see any, I don't see B of A, I don't see chase. And you know what's sad
Ant Pruitt (00:36:45):
About, well I just, because banks still do bad with just regular tour Fay, they, a lot of banks are still sending out sms Yes. SMS for two fa instead
Leo Laporte (00:36:55):
Of, and the reason they do that is cuz they have those normal people that you keep talking about Aunt that can't figure this stuff out, understandably. Yeah. And they understand getting a text message for the code. And so I don't, banks are very, are not gonna get rid of that even though they know it's less secure because they don't want to handle the complications of, if, if I could find a bank that wouldn't support costs sms, I would do it. But as far as I know, every bank does for that reason anyways, you can see there's only 41 sites right now that support Pasky, including Google, Microsoft, even Apple doesn't. And here's the one password Pasky demo. And then this is where you can vote for Pasky support. These are this companies that don't yet support it. Uhhuh, <laugh>, apple, Amazon, Netflix, LinkedIn, YouTube, Disney Plus Steam, Spotify, Twitter, Reddit, discord, Instagram, Facebook b HBO Max. None of these supported Adobe Venmo booking.com mail. But you can vote for it.
Ant Pruitt (00:37:57):
Wouldn't Apple in particular before this considering how they're always
Leo Laporte (00:38:04):
Oh yeah. They're right behind it. Oh, absolutely.
Ant Pruitt (00:38:06):
Touting everybody about how bad their security is versus Apple Security. It seems like they would be,
Leo Laporte (00:38:12):
That's
Ant Pruitt (00:38:12):
Why the line, to make sure this is a go.
Leo Laporte (00:38:14):
I think they're watching what happens with Google. So, okay. It was one of those after you Alfons? No, after you Yeah. They, it was okay. Let Google get, and it's right for Google to do this, I think let them get all the complications and the complaints and you know, make everybody feel better. And then I think Apple and Microsoft will will do, Microsoft already has a
Stacey Higginbotham (00:38:34):
Jeff Jarvis
Ant Pruitt (00:38:34):
Ranch.
Leo Laporte (00:38:35):
Yeah, it's Jeff Jarvis Rantz. So One password is actually has is one of the big companies that does this backend support. So a lot of times when you go to a site and they're doing Pasky, they're not even doing it, which not crazy about. So there,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:38:56):
I don't know. I mean, do you really want Best Buy Right. Handle it in your past keys?
Leo Laporte (00:39:02):
Right. Well in theory it would be good because I mean all that, that would be his authentication for their site. It wouldn't give you a, but now because a centralized thing would have pesky for a bunch of places, that's more concerning. Well,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:39:16):
But if, if you ha because if it's stored, if it's stored in a secure enclave on your device, what is the, what is someone like Best Buy actually implementing just the encryption, like the pki I to get the, to get the secure authe, like the secure authentication between your device and their, like,
Leo Laporte (00:39:39):
I, I don't know if, if it's pki, but I think it probably is something like P K I, so they have a, you know, something un they have your public key and you have their pri you have your private key and they make sure that they mm-hmm. <Affirmative> enter. I'm sure it's something like that. I'm sure it's not like they have everything. Okay.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:39:56):
Yeah. Cuz I'm just like, oh man, I don't want, I mean, cuz I look at all the vendors who I have to give like passwords to and whatnot, and I'm like, and they lose them all the time. I'm like, I don't know if I want something biometrically attached to me out in the world. That's why
Leo Laporte (00:40:12):
I feel like only a hardware vendor with a secure hardware enclave should be allowed to hold private keys. Right. Like a But you
Stacey Higginbotham (00:40:21):
Mentioned that it could be stored in iCloud, which is a server, well, they
Leo Laporte (00:40:26):
Call it the iCloud. Yeah. I don't know. They call it the iCloud key. I don't think it is. I, my under my understanding is it's stored in this secure hardware enclave on my iPhone Right. In hardware. But were I to get another iPhone, apple would handle the transfer from this or the copy from this to the new iPhone. But I think each device has its own secure hardware enclave with the Pasky. I don't think despite the name iCloud, it is stored in the cloud. It shouldn't be, should never be in the cloud. Okay. That you're right. Well, yeah. That's
Stacey Higginbotham (00:41:01):
Awful. Yeah, when you said that, I was like, huh, there's no, well that's what they call item the bar Clair enclaves in the cloud. Those are, yeah, that was the
Jeff Jarvis (00:41:07):
Story last week was that they were, you were, you were able to move these things to the cloud.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:41:14):
Okay.
Leo Laporte (00:41:14):
I don't, I th Yeah, this is, so this was the big question that came up when Pasky came out, and Steve and I talked about this. He is adamant, there is no, no company has yet allows you to export it to another, another companies you'd like, you can't go from Apple to Google or Google Apple. You can go from Apple to Apple to Apple to Apple.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:41:36):
I'm getting information from Mr. Kevin Tofu.
Leo Laporte (00:41:40):
There's the man.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:41:42):
Ooh, he and he's sending me a nifty little link. So I'm gonna drop this in the chat. It's probably
Leo Laporte (00:41:46):
The Phyto two speck.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:41:49):
Well, this is Apple's discussion about it.
Leo Laporte (00:41:51):
Oh yeah. Apple also talks about saying
Stacey Higginbotham (00:41:52):
To me, yeah, PA keys check if you have the private key locally, no third party service has it.
Leo Laporte (00:41:58):
Okay. Right.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:42:00):
And so what's in the cloud is just gonna be a way to check if you have it
Leo Laporte (00:42:05):
In iCloud keychain, pa keys are end to end encrypted. So even Apple can't read them.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:42:10):
Right.
Leo Laporte (00:42:11):
And this is Apple. It's, yeah,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:42:14):
So it's actually in keychain, so, or iCloud keychain.
Leo Laporte (00:42:18):
Right.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:42:20):
Oh. But then you have to turn iCloud keychain on, which is a suck because then you've gotta enable all the cloud stuff associated with Apple, which is also a suck. I know you have to do it if you're using an iPhone, but I don't, and I don't wanna do it on my iPads.
Leo Laporte (00:42:35):
Right. And so you're gonna use some sort of Samsung solution. They have that, you know, Knox Enclave. And I think it's gonna be very similar. But the question is, can Knox talk to iCloud Con and, and, and Google and I, my understanding when we talked about this before is Apple has not, has implied that maybe there'd be a way to export it, but they haven't yet done that. That there is no way to export it to some other platform. And I understand for security reasons, you probably don't want that. Right. You, you want to keep it tied to your hardware and it's convenient for Apple. Cuz <laugh>, then you really don't want to get a, an Android phone. <Laugh> just want to, and Google, that's what it sounds, sounds like. Yeah. Google's well, but you know, they can justify it. Right. Buy an iPhone.
(00:43:25):
I think Frank, frankly as much as we lauded this as, and as much as we know that passwords are terrible, this ain't the solution. And Steve who created his own similar but better solution called Squirrel some time ago, spent seven years working on it, has pointed out Squirrel. Yeah, that was really the problem. Sorry cuz he was supposed to be working on something else. <Laugh> and he went to Squirrel. So I don't know if he did it on purpose, but Steve did develop something that he says technically is better, but it's Steve Gibson's solution, not Microsoft, apple, Google's solution. So I think it's just kind of a non-starter. And honestly he says, and I think he's right, Pasky is not as good. But remember we always make these just like the banks, these tradeoffs between real security and convenience. So not as well, and
Stacey Higginbotham (00:44:17):
Not everybody needs real secure. I mean, like, that's the other thing to think about. That's you gotta, that's okay. You gotta assess your risk profile, right?
Leo Laporte (00:44:25):
You wanna protect, look, if you use Gmail as your main mail account, you wanna protect your Google account a lot. You wanna do whatever it takes. That's why I have a Yuki.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:44:36):
Yeah. That's why I have multifactor and a Yuki.
Leo Laporte (00:44:38):
And if I could, but I can't cuz Google won't let me. If I could, I'd turn off everything but the Yuki, maybe they will let me. I haven't tried. I would turn off everything. But the but the Yuba key and maybe, yeah, no, they, they
Stacey Higginbotham (00:44:49):
Probably, they just don't want you to call if you
Leo Laporte (00:44:50):
Use it. Yeah, that's right. It's the same reason they don't do end-to-end encryption on Google Authenticator. Remember last week we had the story, Steve Gibson was talking about this as well. The Google Authenticator will now synchronize between phones to which a company called Misk pointed out. Yeah. But that's not encrypted. So, and Google said, yeah, that's intentional because we don't want a lot of phone calls about, I lost my, I lost my secret keys. This is always the equation. See aunt, this is why I don't care about real people. They make it bad for the Resters. Us <laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (00:45:25):
This is why he likes Master Mastodon. Wait, look
Leo Laporte (00:45:27):
Man, I'm real people. Is
Jeff Jarvis (00:45:28):
He's among his people.
Leo Laporte (00:45:29):
<Laugh>. No, you're you're on Mastodon. You're using it just fine. You know, the biggest issue, and I agree with you and, and you brought this up during twit Jeff Jarvis is, is you're not, you're not getting unfortunately good representation for black people on Twitter. Oh no. Mastodon for instance, as we did on Twitter. You don't have black Twitter on Macedon, but you are getting, by the way, they who, whoever these people are that organized black Twitter have moved somewhat on mass to Bluesky
Jeff Jarvis (00:45:58):
Four, the four conveners of the Black Twitter event that I held it by school. They're all there on Meredith Clark and on, and Charlton McElwain and Jonathan Flowers are all there. Yeah. And what, what I'm reading since, and, and, and what happened was someone on Master, someone on Bluesky was very intentional and they gave a lot of invites to somebody who knew, who knew Invite and that was recognized and seen. It has quote tweet, it has search, it has a different motif, but mainly it doesn't have the culture that Mass Don had that more than we want to know was not welcoming. You know, I I I I, I've said before in the show that Adam Moss, I watched him go against Dr. Jonathan Flowers, a leading expert in black Twitter and just dismissed anything they could possibly bring of any value and just build your own damn thing then as open source. Right. Which was as Flowers Syndrome is your way to say fme. And so the, one of the greatest hope I have,
Leo Laporte (00:46:56):
So you say you, you say that they say that Black Mastodon was not welcoming to
Jeff Jarvis (00:47:02):
Black Twitter. Yes. Multiple. Multiple. And I'm not blaming that on, on Roco or anybody in particular. Right. But there was a, a a, a unwelcoming geek culture. The other thing that happened on MAs dun, which was very offensive to people, was when people would put up something that had to do with politics and equity. Some would come in, and this is pretty much gone now, but would say, use a content warning. Well, no, I'm not gonna use a content warning for your delicate little soul about the life that I have to lead as a black person. Yeah. Hell with you. And so,
Ant Pruitt (00:47:30):
Yeah, I got a lot of the content warning and stuff Yeah. About images at one time. And I'm like, really? But
Leo Laporte (00:47:35):
Okay, I like, I I have to say I support and like the content warning and alt tag culture of Mastodon, I think in the long run it's intended to be inclusive, not exclusive
Jeff Jarvis (00:47:45):
Or certain things for
Leo Laporte (00:47:47):
All the decision. I do content warnings when I post about our, our server. Not everybody wants to hear about TWI social server. I'm,
Jeff Jarvis (00:47:55):
I'm sorry, you're too delicate to deal with racism in America. But that's what some people No, no, no. You should, no. Anyway, wait, you should put, people weren't being told. You should put that behind the content warning. And what does that then say?
Leo Laporte (00:48:06):
Part of the problem with it is the name content warning, which is a mistake. It should just be a headline. Yes. Because it's all, it's just a headline. Yeah. If you don't wanna read this message, this is what it's about. It makes it easy Yeah. To ignore stuff. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (00:48:19):
Yeah. I, I agree. But, but that's not the way it works.
Leo Laporte (00:48:21):
I understand. Well, it is the way it works, but it's, the name implies that it is somehow to protect your, your, you know. Well
Jeff Jarvis (00:48:28):
What that's also how a lot of people enforce it, Leo. They don't use it like you, they say, I'm offended by this. You should not put this out for my eyes to see. That's
Ant Pruitt (00:48:36):
What I got. I didn't get what you get Mr. Laport as far as how you use it. What I got was, I am offended by this. You should have done this. You should.
Leo Laporte (00:48:44):
Yeah. Okay. And I understand, I think they're not really saying I'm offended by this, but to there, early on when, when we had a big influx of people No, no. Early on we had a big influx of people from Twitter. The, there was a misunderstanding of the culture and, and people were trying to explain that the ma on culture includes content warnings and alt tags. And I think that it came off as being caught like a cop, which was not what it should have been. But there was this attempt, there was a reasonable attempt to try to say, look, this isn't Twitter now I have to tell you. Yeah. in my opinion, right. All that energy you're putting into Bluesky, you're gonna deeply regret. I do not think Bluesky is gonna end up being the welcoming, loving place. You Yeah. We'll
Jeff Jarvis (00:49:26):
See, they did add in blocking. One of the problems was they got to 50,000 people. They didn't have blocking in there. There were people who were planning to come in. And there was also a funny thing. People in my world really can't stand Mad Lacs. And so they went after him just cuz why are you here? So my system was just rude. And they, they added the blocking in. But the problem is, we talked about this a little bit on Twitter, is that there's a chicken egg problem here. That they can't really test things and build things until they have enough people to use it. And they don't have enough people to use it until they built the things. And problems are going to come up and then it's gonna have a bad reputation from those problems. So they're, they're on a highwire. They're very much on a highwire. I think I, I got five invites. I went out and told, I used one myself. I then told four people, I have an invite for you. And then they didn't work cuz they expired. Ooh. And then I've tried to get more invites and they haven't given 'em to me. I, and I'm, and, and I'm thinking they've slowed it down to zero right now to try to hold it off for a little bit.
Ant Pruitt (00:50:26):
As try to figure out content and moderation.
Jeff Jarvis (00:50:29):
Yeah. I mean, Leo, I, I think, I think and this is my conversation with Dave Wener, is, is it's good to have competitive things out here.
Leo Laporte (00:50:36):
Oh yeah. <Laugh>, is
Ant Pruitt (00:50:40):
That a Joe Esposito special?
Leo Laporte (00:50:42):
Yeah. Thank you Joe Esposito for the audio screw Real people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. <Laugh>. Stacey, do you want a Bluesky invite now? After, after her having heard all
Stacey Higginbotham (00:50:52):
This, I, I do want a Bluesky. I'll send you one. I still
Leo Laporte (00:50:54):
Want one. I'll give you one.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:50:56):
I think I am,
Leo Laporte (00:50:57):
I have one left. I'll take
Stacey Higginbotham (00:50:58):
Bluesky candidate.
Leo Laporte (00:50:59):
I have one left. And I really want everybody who's on this show, and at least to be on Bluesky. So as long as mine has an,
Ant Pruitt (00:51:07):
Someone has an invite, send me one
Leo Laporte (00:51:09):
And I'll Oh, you don't have one either. Look at it. Oh, I thought you were on
Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:11):
It. You can send it to an first.
Leo Laporte (00:51:13):
Oh, I'm searched
Jeff Jarvis (00:51:15):
For an every day. Oh.
Leo Laporte (00:51:16):
I didn't really care.
Ant Pruitt (00:51:18):
You know, it's
Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:18):
A, you can give it to aunt. Oh, this actually
Jeff Jarvis (00:51:20):
Works. This is a little social moment here.
Leo Laporte (00:51:22):
Now I've got problems. I, I wouldn't have said that had I known aunt that wasn't on it. <Laugh>, who do you choose now?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:30):
An is
Leo Laporte (00:51:30):
Physically
Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:31):
Closer to you, so I think he should choose an aunt. So I don't even have the punch Leo button. I mean, my goodness.
Jeff Jarvis (00:51:38):
Who do you love more? Leo? My goodness.
Leo Laporte (00:51:43):
<Laugh>.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:45):
I'm just gonna be gracious and let you take it. Give it to an
Jeff Jarvis (00:51:48):
Anthony. Go make him sweat. Make him sweats.
Leo Laporte (00:51:51):
Is Leo's choice <laugh>?
Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:53):
Oh, actually, I should, because you called out me trying to eat my lunch, even though I was trying to do, you deserve it subtly and quietly.
Leo Laporte (00:51:59):
You, you deserve the invite. You say you've earned it. Honestly, if I could give you my account, I would. I don't wanna be there, <laugh>. I don't wanna be there anymore.
Jeff Jarvis (00:52:10):
That's not nice, Leo. There's nice people. They're trying give it
Leo Laporte (00:52:13):
A chance. Very trying.
Jeff Jarvis (00:52:16):
Oh,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:17):
Oh, all right. Who, that's
Leo Laporte (00:52:19):
Why I want grumpy today. That's why I want goodness. That's why I want you and aunt to be on there, because I just want to know what you guys think of it. Yeah, because it's very easy.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:28):
We'll, we'll get there eventually.
Leo Laporte (00:52:30):
I
Ant Pruitt (00:52:30):
Requested an invite. That's what I was saying too. I did request an invite last week or something. Yeah. But
Jeff Jarvis (00:52:37):
Mariana Woo was on TWI Sunday and her instrument perspective, she, she was very much that Black Sky needs to invite all the journalists and all the prominent people, that that's what's gonna make the difference. Now, others will resent that, and that's a very unasked on way to look at things the, the real people. But it's interesting to see where it positions itself. A lot of the question is gonna be does it actually federate? Does it do what? It's, the protocol says it's gonna do it. When is it gonna do it?
Leo Laporte (00:53:08):
I also think right now it's very much like Twitter. So if you liked Twitter, you'll like Bluesky. I think that's true.
(00:53:13):
It's, it's, and, and I, one of the reasons I don't like it is cuz although I miss, you know, I want, I would really like to see the author. This is what hurt me, was I wanna see the authoritative news sites. You know, NPR left Twitter, right? And of course Elon Musk response is, oh, good, I'm gonna sign NPR to somebody else. Which is, oh, that'll make it much better. Twitter will be so much better when a fake npr, but what I'd like to see an NPR is on Masin on, I'd like to see all of the news sources, all of the governmental issues and stuff. I'd love to see aoc, she went to Bluesky. She as far as I know, she doesn't have, she has an account, but I don't think she has much of a presence. Oh,
Jeff Jarvis (00:53:52):
She uses as much. No.
Leo Laporte (00:53:53):
Yeah. So on Macedon, so I jealous. I think the people who are going to Bluesky, there's a lot of great content people going to Bluesky that I wish they would've looked at Mastodon, or maybe they did look at Ma. I wish they would've liked it.
Ant Pruitt (00:54:10):
You know, I got pulled into a discussion with Mr. Jarvis listener Ms. Adriana pulled, pulled me in to some of her followers or friends or what have you talking about Black Mastodon and how it doesn't seem to be taken hold the way black Twitter did. And one of the comments was black Twitter was so big to where people thought it was a whole different app versus being Twitter. And my response was, well, Mastodon just seemed to get the attention of quote unquote normal people like 10 minutes ago. So it's really, at least for me, it's really hard for me to expect black Twitter to just explode and get the prominence that it had on Twitter on Macedon. Like right now, I think it's gonna take a while because of it. It, it is gotta become more popular to normal people and, and get all of the guardrails in forest as blocking trolls and things like that. So I don't see why people are just so up in arms about, well, black Masteron is just not gonna, it is just not getting it for me. Well, you gotta give it time. It's just gonna take some time.
Jeff Jarvis (00:55:23):
So, so Anne, I just put up on the rundown for your line. 92 Jabari Evans, who's a, who's a hip hop artist, who now is an academic and a PhD who studies especially young people on social media. Mm-Hmm. He came to the Black Twitter summit. He's a brilliant academic and he wrote a really good essay today. And he gave me, he was nice enough to say that I helped inspire him to do it, along with Meredith Clark and Andre Brock. And what he is saying in the end here is that it's gonna matter when you see the black owned Twitter, that what, what happened on black Twitter is that black people came in and they used the affordances that were there, that were not designed for them. Ral was at the summit. And he said, you know, we, yeah, we were thinking about people who, you know, white geeks who went to South by Southwest. That's what we built Twitter for.
Ant Pruitt (00:56:06):
Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (00:56:07):
And, but we used them to our ends. Charlotte McElroy wrote a book called Black Software, which is about before the web and places like Black Planet and so on. There was a technological brilliance to what was happening that was never recognized mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so do you come into another service here where even as intentional as they've been at Bluesky, it's not a black owned business. Now there is Spout by Chris Booey. I, I hear controversy about it. I don't know what the controversy is. I don't understand. So I'm not making any judgment, which is black owned. And there's another one, I think called Spill that is black owned. So it'll be really interesting to see whether there are separate spaces. The same thing is called True of Media, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there's a big ad agency now that's gonna go and try to buy a lot of media, some of it aimed at black people, but also saying we should be able to own any media. And so where, where do we come along Sister Bari to the point that it's not just that black Twitter is listened to for what's next, but it gets to build what's next.
Leo Laporte (00:57:09):
Hmm. So what is the point? So there's two, two reasons for having something like a, a black Twitter or whatever, a Jewish Twitter or whatever one is so that there's a community, but the other is so other people can see, right? Says it's public. No. Right Or no?
Jeff Jarvis (00:57:25):
Yes and no. Yes and no. They, part of the, part of what I hear argued all the time from people who are being on black Twitter is that, is that they welcome the chance to be somewhere where it's not under white gays.
Leo Laporte (00:57:36):
Their, so that's another thing. And by the way, you could do that very well with Mastodon just by creating a mastodon in, in, since it wasn't open to the public. Yeah. You can make, but you
Jeff Jarvis (00:57:46):
Also want the
Leo Laporte (00:57:47):
Power Master on easily,
Jeff Jarvis (00:57:48):
But you also want the power to break out of that when it comes time to do Oscars. So white and black Lives Matter and so on. Well then
Leo Laporte (00:57:56):
I would submit that ma on us. Perfect for that. Because you create a ma on sense that's black, masked it on, and then if you want, you can share those toots out to the regular See
Jeff Jarvis (00:58:06):
Earlier discussion. Yeah. Yes, I agree. Yeah. Architecturally, yes. But see earlier discussion about, about affordances and culture.
Leo Laporte (00:58:14):
Well, I can't help it if people can't figure it out. <Laugh> <laugh>, honestly, the, the, the and it's not that shallow. I mean, it's not that hard. I always get learning curves confused cuz a steep learning curve's easy. It's not that shallow of a learning curve. It's not that hard. No,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:33):
No. A steep learning curve is hard.
Leo Laporte (00:58:35):
No,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:37):
No, it's hard. Yes. It's hard. It's hard at first. And then you get up there and you're like, oh, okay. But it's like elevation game, right? If you're climbing up a mountain, a steep learning curve is far harder than, or a steep mountain is harder than like a mountain that you can go over. But
Leo Laporte (00:58:52):
A learning curve isn't a Mount Heights <laugh>. Oh God. <Laugh> a learning curve is how quickly you learn. So I am so, so grateful from mash to take
Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:02):
No, it's how hard you have to work to learn.
Leo Laporte (00:59:04):
No, no, no. Quickly. So here's the learning curve from ignorance to full knowledge, right? If it's slow, then you're not getting full knowledge very fast. If it's steep.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:15):
No, no. We are, we are pulling. Okay. Pull your
Leo Laporte (00:59:17):
Audience. So, so as an example, I always changing a diaper is, is a steep learning curve because it's you, you do it once and you know how to
Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:27):
Do it. Just not use of the language. Right? No, that is not
Leo Laporte (00:59:32):
Okay, Paul. The
Jeff Jarvis (00:59:33):
Is that learning will be slow and arduous. It's hard to get up the mountain. Mr. CSUs says, I
Ant Pruitt (00:59:40):
Irc and, and Discord agrees with Ms. Stacy, sir.
Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:44):
Yeah. Lejo. So, you know, <laugh> just don't, you're contrary on everything today. Let's talk about, let, hey, let's, let's, let's talk about something else. We've talked enough.
Jeff Jarvis (00:59:53):
Now he's gonna prove himself, right? Because he's male, Stacy. And he has to. Dude,
Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:57):
I've already looked it up, man.
Leo Laporte (01:00:00):
Well, anyway, so then it is a steep learning curve, but the steep learning curve makes it, but it's not that steep. It's a little, it's a little, there's a, there's a
Jeff Jarvis (01:00:11):
Curve. Just stop. There's just a little curve.
Leo Laporte (01:00:13):
Stop. But that little bump makes it hard and it keeps out. Sorry. It keeps out the, it keeps out people who don't care enough to just get over the hump. So it's really more like a learning speed bump. And it I think that that's a good thing, right? Because you only want people committed. You don't want people, this is the problem with Bluesky. It's just a lot
Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:31):
Of, yeah. Okay. This is
Leo Laporte (01:00:32):
Derpy
Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:32):
People. You are literally mans splitting incorrectly learning curves. No, no,
Leo Laporte (01:00:36):
No, no. I, I agreed with you. And I said, okay, fine. That's what I was trying to say. Which is it
Jeff Jarvis (01:00:42):
Has, I'm still spla. Will you do that?
Leo Laporte (01:00:43):
No, no. I'm just trying to make the point. You don't what
Jeff Jarvis (01:00:45):
Say, but I was Right. Let me show you. No, I, that's band
Leo Laporte (01:00:48):
Play. I just No, no. He
Jeff Jarvis (01:00:49):
Advance, I
Leo Laporte (01:00:49):
Finish the thought, which is, I think it's never trouble
Jeff Jarvis (01:00:52):
Learning this Leo.
Leo Laporte (01:00:53):
I think it's a good thing for some things to be a little difficult because then the people who are in what the real people have some commitment to
Ant Pruitt (01:01:00):
Committed ones.
Leo Laporte (01:01:01):
Yeah. To, to learning it. And I think part of the problem with Bluesky is just a bunch of people got invites and went, there's a lot of butts on Bluesky. And I don't mean ifs ands and
Jeff Jarvis (01:01:11):
Yeah, no, there are, that was a whole thing.
Leo Laporte (01:01:14):
And then the
Jeff Jarvis (01:01:14):
A a ooc saw my butt was a whole thing. I'm not
Leo Laporte (01:01:17):
Sure why that's that like immediate turnoff. Yes. And I think it was just too easy for people to want it in there and bring their old habits from Twitter. And that's kind of what was going on in MAs was like, don't bring your old habits over here.
Ant Pruitt (01:01:29):
Right.
Leo Laporte (01:01:31):
Okay. I'm gonna enough
Ant Pruitt (01:01:32):
Must span and see if I get my invite.
Leo Laporte (01:01:36):
I sent it to
Stacey Higginbotham (01:01:36):
Stacy, so I o <laugh>. Oh,
Jeff Jarvis (01:01:39):
<Laugh>. Now watch. She's not gonna use it if you don't,
Leo Laporte (01:01:44):
That
Jeff Jarvis (01:01:45):
Comes out. Are you on blue skies, Stacy? Oh no, now.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:01:47):
No, no. I'm totally gonna use it. I have, don't have it
Leo Laporte (01:01:49):
Yet. Jeff, do you have another, I think look in your No,
Jeff Jarvis (01:01:51):
I don't. Cause all mine expired. Jay gave me five and they, and they expired. I gave 'em to friends and they're gone.
Leo Laporte (01:01:58):
And I will get you in there. I promise. I just,
Ant Pruitt (01:02:01):
It's all I need.
Leo Laporte (01:02:02):
I'm, she showed a little more interest in getting in there than you did. That's all I'm saying. No, cuz cuz
Jeff Jarvis (01:02:06):
Aunt was just, you know, his usual
Leo Laporte (01:02:08):
Calm, calm
Jeff Jarvis (01:02:09):
And so calm, calm and, and, and polite. So, but you
Leo Laporte (01:02:13):
Know, aunt, to, to your credit, you use our method on a lot and you use it quite well. And I'm grateful.
Ant Pruitt (01:02:18):
You do. I mean, I, I, again, even with that or Twitter, I'm, I'm just in broadcast mode. You, you know. But I did see a toot today from one of our loyal listeners Ms. In, she posted a, a picture of some her taking photographs of birds in the backyard of her father's house. And she mentioned that she hoped that it would, you know, help brighten my feed up a little bit. Cuz most of my feed has been people just angry and, and fussing and fighting. And, and that was nice to see something that was just huh? A good break. Cheerful here. A nice, I
Jeff Jarvis (01:02:53):
I got a question for you, for you guys. So we had, and it was poignant cuz this is, my father died. We had a robin with five eggs in our front door. Mm. And she sat there forever and they, and they hatched and the little birdies were there and they're being fed. And then I go, last night the nest is empty and half gone and there's three splats of blood.
Leo Laporte (01:03:14):
Oh.
Ant Pruitt (01:03:16):
Oh no. What
Jeff Jarvis (01:03:16):
Who, who would take robin? Little Robins rat. Is it a bird? Is it a cat rat?
Leo Laporte (01:03:20):
Rats.
Ant Pruitt (01:03:21):
Rats
Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:22):
Rat. It's,
Jeff Jarvis (01:03:22):
It's up on a, it's on a door. It's on on a eagles. Rats. A reef
Leo Laporte (01:03:26):
On a door. Almost certainly. Rats
Ant Pruitt (01:03:27):
Crows.
Leo Laporte (01:03:28):
Yeah. Could be, could be crows. But not a cat. Cat's not gonna climb up on a door like that Rat will. Unless there's some, a rat would is already there. Yeah. A rat is already there.
Jeff Jarvis (01:03:38):
<Laugh>. We're in a nice town. We don't have rats here. What do you think? This is New York.
Leo Laporte (01:03:42):
You got pizza Rat.
Ant Pruitt (01:03:44):
You said Jersey said enough. That's Jersey.
Leo Laporte (01:03:46):
We don't have rats here. People, all people have a very bad impression of New Jersey. There are parts of New Jersey that are bucolic, positively bucolic. That's
Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:54):
Why they call it the garden state. The
Leo Laporte (01:03:56):
Garden state. And then there's, you know, then there's Newark.
Jeff Jarvis (01:03:59):
See, see,
Ant Pruitt (01:04:00):
Look at that. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (01:04:01):
That's my view out the window.
Leo Laporte (01:04:02):
All I see is a bunch of 'em over.
Ant Pruitt (01:04:03):
Rat exposed,
Leo Laporte (01:04:04):
<Laugh>. One of places. Rats and
Jeff Jarvis (01:04:07):
High. Those are, those are deer.
Leo Laporte (01:04:09):
Oh yeah. Deers are rats. They're tall
Jeff Jarvis (01:04:10):
Rats. Yeah. Yep. They eat my shrubs. <Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (01:04:16):
Oh, I had so many things I wanted to talk about and I forgot. I, they've,
Jeff Jarvis (01:04:20):
And then, and then you got, you got, are
Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:22):
They in the rundown? Because we can go there. I
Leo Laporte (01:04:23):
Did get challenged <laugh>. You think I got challenged? I just wanted to complete the thought. I agree. Steep learning curve. Hard to learn. I don't know where I got the idea that it wasn't, I always thought, I always thought it was hard to learn and then somebody said, no, no, that means it's easy cuz it's quick. And I got, see
Jeff Jarvis (01:04:39):
The man has to say I was right in the end.
Leo Laporte (01:04:41):
I'm no, I'm, no, I'm, oh God.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:44):
I Let's talk about normal. You wanna talk about normal people whom you don't enjoy and how that means that Chrome is taking away the, the lock icon.
Leo Laporte (01:04:53):
Oh yeah. Let's talk about that. There's, there's
Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:54):
Not a lot there, but,
Leo Laporte (01:04:56):
So Chrome is, or we can
Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:57):
Talk about VPNs in Utah.
Leo Laporte (01:04:59):
<Laugh> we'll do that too. You
Jeff Jarvis (01:05:00):
Can do that story too. Yes. All
Leo Laporte (01:05:02):
Right. Chrome has decided that the lock, the padlock is antiquated because Google says everybody is on. So here's the, this is Firefox, by the way. Everybody is on HTT p s now thanks to our successful campaign. And let's encrypt. So we don't need the padlock anymore. It doesn't communicate anything. So instead we're gonna have two people lying head to toe sleeping bags. And I don't know how that helps. Actually, the funny thing is Firefox already has that. It's right next to the padlock. You can't see it. I wish I could zoom in for you. But for Firefox, that is a setting, those are setting sliders. So it's gonna be very confusing cuz Firefox still has the padlock. And then it also has the two people head to toe in sleeping bags. So I don't
Jeff Jarvis (01:05:54):
Get this thing right. Part of part of Google's point was that it was misleading. People thought it was somehow safer if it had to lock.
Leo Laporte (01:06:00):
Okay, so you, you, you tell me what does that mean? What does this mean, Jeff? This symbol. Go ahead. Show my, what's that mean?
Jeff Jarvis (01:06:09):
Oh yeah, I got it.
Leo Laporte (01:06:11):
Two people I don't know, in sleeping bags.
Jeff Jarvis (01:06:15):
Well, if they're not in sleeping bags, they're having a certain kind of fun. Oh. Oh,
Leo Laporte (01:06:18):
Sir.
Jeff Jarvis (01:06:20):
<Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (01:06:20):
So Google says this is better than a padlock. I mean, I know what it is, it switches, but I don't know how, I don't know if that's as communicative as they might think. <Laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (01:06:30):
Yeah. Now I can't see anything else, but Oh, thank you, <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (01:06:37):
All right. What was the other ones? Okay, well,
Jeff Jarvis (01:06:38):
Now's a good time to talk about porn in Utah, in Vietnam. Porn to porn. Yeah. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:06:43):
So this is, this is segue. This is an important, except that in the uk I, you know, there are a number of initiatives in the US and other places. They're trying to put, they're bringing back Kapa in the us. They're trying to force websites to identify ages of its users. And of course, that's a real, a, a privacy issue. If every time you go to a website, you have to say no. Let me show you my state ID to prove that I'm over eight 18. Utah has actually been the first to make this a law. If they're gonna mandate age verification. Here's the SB 2 87 online pornography viewing age requirements. Signing the law in March goes effect, went into effect yesterday as a, a commercial entity that knowingly, intentionally publishes or distributes material harmful to minors. Okay? I don't, you know, I don't know what that means on the internet from a website that contains a substantial portion of such material shall be held liable if the entity fails to perform a reasonable age verification methods to verify the age of an individual attempting to access the material. You remember the UK tried this a few years ago. <Laugh>, this was the law we were talking about where you'd have to go into a pub <laugh> to get, to get Oh,
Jeff Jarvis (01:07:59):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:07:59):
Porn permission. <Laugh>. I remember that. They, they've, they tabled that seeing the inherent problems Utah did not PornHub, which of course probably doesn't admit that it distributes material harmful minors. But anyway, it's adult content. They do call it that says we can't reasonably protect the privacy of our users and find out how old they are. So we're just gonna stay outta Utah, which means good on him. It's gonna be a beautiful place for a VPN providers. That's all I can say. Oh,
Stacey Higginbotham (01:08:32):
They, I think it was the Verge had a map showing how much VPN search searches for VPNs shot up in Utah. Like it's, the map is like the US all the same color. And then Utah is a bright, yeah, I think it was green was
Leo Laporte (01:08:47):
Different in 2016, Utah declared porn a public health crisis and the epidemic that is harming the citizens of Utah and the nation. So I think probably this is exactly what the Utah legislature wanted, and they'd probably like all the other sites to do the same thing. Well, they, they wanted
Jeff Jarvis (01:09:05):
Attention. It's, it's, it's, it's all for
Leo Laporte (01:09:08):
Show, but it is gen, it's Jermaine. Because I think that this, the, the UK's online act is gonna do the same thing or something similar. And you're gonna see, you're gonna see this. And there are several acts now in Congress right now, or laws, proposed laws in Congress along these lines. So
Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:26):
It's, you wanna hear a great law.
Leo Laporte (01:09:28):
Yeah. What's a great law. Do you wanna
Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:31):
To, well, I missed, I I interrupted Anne, so. No, you're fine. Go ahead. My state, Washington state is the first state to pass a medical data privacy law. It's called my data, my privacy. Actually it's like HB something, something something. But what it does is
Leo Laporte (01:09:52):
See my health, my data act,
Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:55):
Yes, my health, my data act, whatever it is. But it, it does a couple things. One, it gives you the right to see what data a healthcare provider has on you. Yay. delete that data. Yay. And it establish, it establishes geofencing boundaries around healthcare providers and puts that data off limits to be sold.
Leo Laporte (01:10:17):
Doesn't HIPAA already do all that?
Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:19):
No. So let's talk about what HIPAA doesn't actually do. <Laugh> cuz this is something people don't understand, and I read about this a lot. HIPAA is the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. Yep. What it is, is it protects your health data as it's reported between insurers and your doctors and providers. You change jobs, right? Your health providers and your insurers. And it was designed because we got our insurance in the US because of our health or because of our jobs. So when you change jobs, people wanted to move their health data back and forth. And insurers had some of that data. And so they wanted to be able to move that around easily and do it electronically if they could. That is all this does. So if you send your, like, healthcare data to a apple, apple has no legal obligation to protect that data.
(01:11:12):
Nope. Apple does because it's in its commercial interests. But it could sell it. And any, anytime, any time your data goes out of a medical provider or out of your insurance company, like maybe you fill out a form in your doctor's office to maybe you fill out like why you're at your doctor's office. There's a lot of companies that now have software to manage that patient intake thing. That data actually doesn't stay at your doctor. That data is data collected by that company for you, or sorry, by the company for themselves. So that data gets shared wherever. If you go on a mental health website and you start like typing in there, again, not necessarily a healthcare provider. So your data isn't necessarily protected. And people misunderstand this. They just think all healthcare data is protected, but it's not. And this is one of the first laws in the US to close those loopholes. So that's why it's Bravo,
Jeff Jarvis (01:12:07):
Washington state. Good job. Lemme understand something. Stacy, so you said you can erase things. Can you erase that at the medical providers?
Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:15):
So there's some, I I read the bill. What you can do, you can only do this as a consumer. You can ask for this data to be erased up to two times a year. So you can't do it after that. The providers can charge you. So like if you go to the doctor and you're like, take away all my data, and you're like, they can be like, okay, fine, sure, we'll delete all your data. And then you have to go back again for something else. You can only do that twice a year without getting charged.
Jeff Jarvis (01:12:43):
Yeah. Oh, so is it only all your data or is it some particular piece of your data you don't want there?
Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:48):
I mean, I guess you could,
Jeff Jarvis (01:12:51):
Here's what I'm asking. Here's what I'm gonna
Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:52):
Asking. No, I you're you're thinking about like my medical data that's relevant for diagnostic. Diagnostic. Exactly.
Jeff Jarvis (01:12:57):
And you can do, you know, you're, you're, you, you're, you tend to be manic bipolar and in the midst of a bipolar, you take all that out and then they don't know how to treat you next time because it's not in the, in the files.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:11):
You know, I did read the law, but I don't know about that particular use case. I know there, there are guardrails around how often you can ask your data to be deleted. I don't know if the provider has the ability, I mean, cuz you can pull your medical records from a provider, I believe.
Jeff Jarvis (01:13:29):
Here's the other thing about it, Stacy, which is really interesting, is when we, we talk, talk a lot about, you know, this is my data, when you're in a transaction with someone else, right? Whether that's Amazon or a doctor, they have the data too. So you say, I wanna erase all that data. And then you come back later and you wanna sue the doctor for malpractice. So the doctor doesn't have their own records in say, no, I did, I did treat you for this because I have the right to that data too, is the doctor, because you don't own it. I also own it. It's always inevitable in any, in any conversation or transaction. But there is more than one party that can claim ownership.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:14:03):
Okay. I'm, I'm looking at the definitions here to see if I can figure this out. Oh, the inter, one of the other interesting things about this is, is in the definition section where they talk about like medical data, part of what they're putting in is medical data is biometric data, which I thought was kind of interesting. And genetic and phenotype genotype and phenotype data based on D n A, which I'm kind of like, oh, does that mean that I could take a DNA test like one of those ancestry dot coms or 23andme tests and then ask to delete my data after I get my results? Thus, meaning I won't be entered into their database because that could be cool. Yeah. I'm still scrolling through. It's, it's only a 20 page law, so you can read it if you want to.
Leo Laporte (01:14:50):
I'm, I'm really raising kind of bigger questions so we
Stacey Higginbotham (01:14:52):
Can, I think Leo's falling asleep. No, it's a, it's a good question. It's
Leo Laporte (01:14:54):
Only 20 page <laugh>.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:14:56):
No, I mean, we'll, we'll, believe me, if you read a lot of laws, they're, some of them can be special. I just put a link in the chat,
Leo Laporte (01:15:04):
But, all right, let's take you a little break. When we come back. The annals of ai, we we actually have a lot of interesting stuff still to come, including bankruptcy for one of the biggest new media companies in the business. And the Writer's Guild strike. We haven't even talked about that all coming up. Nice. I was wondering where that would fit in our show. Cause I kept seeing it's there. There's an AI angle here, there's an AI angle, there's a big angle. And also you know, we, it's the stream. I mean the, there's two real reasons for the strike. Amazon and Netflixs. Yeah, there's two real reasons for the strike. One is ai, but the big one is streaming. The last time they did the contract negotiation and a strike there were streaming was considered YouTube, and it's not anymore. And they don't get paid the same for Netflix or HBO o max as they do for broadcasts. So it's, and they
Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:00):
Don't even get the data itself. Okay, we're talking about it too soon.
Leo Laporte (01:16:04):
We'll get it all in just a moment. But first a word from our sponsor, Miro. I love Miro. We've been using Miro ever since I discovered them. And this is the hard thing about doing an ad for something that could be anything you want it to be. You gotta check it out. But I could tell you this. I know a lot of businesses, a lot of teams are struggling with all the different disparate data sources. And you're going from tab to tab and tool to tool. And you know, as you do that, there's a, you know, a natural loss of energy, a loss of information, Miro, that doesn't have to happen because Miro, how can I put this? It's a collaborative, so your whole team can use it. It's visual. It's a collaborative visual space that's the same for everybody. So the same data for everybody.
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(01:20:54):
yeah. So let's start with the Writer's Guild of America. They've gone on a strike. This happened last time in 2006. Some people have said that this is what's triggered the reality show apocalypse. But I don't th others have said No, no. We had the Apprentice before that. We had Big Brother before that. We had reality TV before that. Yeah, it certainly helps. It wasn't as prevalent. Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah, right. It certainly helped. Cause they're cheap. You don't need writers for reality programming all the meanwhile, meanwhile, radio and people watched them <laugh>. Yeah. Yes. So there is one concern that a lot of us have, which is, are our shows gonna go away? What's gonna happen to succession or what's gonna happen to, you know, whatever drama you like, stranger Things, is it gonna go away? And most, you know, first of all, the shows you're watching today have already are done.
(01:21:44):
They've been produced. They're, they're out. So it won't affect those. It might affect shows down the road. Well, how long did the last one go on for a long time? If you go to Wikipedia, it has them. Of course. Yeah. The fir it's funny, the there've been a lot of people on Twitter and Bluesky and elsewhere a as writers, that's actually been one of the big topics on Twitter this past few days. Writers in the Writers Guild explaining and reassuring people about the strike saying, you know that there's some really good reasons for this. One of, one of the issues, as you mentioned, Stacy, is ai. There's legit, I think, legitimate concern that we talked about this on Sunday, or maybe it was yesterday. It was on Mac Break Weekly. How many seasons of the Simpsons are there, 20, 30 years of Simpsons.
(01:22:35):
You have enough episodes, you could feed them into an AI and maybe generate scripts. Well, we saw that happen with Seinfeld and how bad that was. They weren't very good <laugh>. Yeah. But maybe, maybe you could do better or get ideas for scripts. And in the negotiations, the Writers Guild said, we need, we need to talk about this. And the response of the producers, the Association of Motion picture and television producers was, oh yeah, we'll have a, a yearly get together to talk about new technologies. <Laugh>, that was it. Which the writer's Guild said, that's a pretty condescending and useless response. There does need something to be something there. And then of course, the big issues getting paid for streaming.
Jeff Jarvis (01:23:16):
My favorite picket sign so far was give us a contract, or we'll spoil succession <laugh>. Here's
Leo Laporte (01:23:23):
Another one. Related succession without the writers is just the apprentice <laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (01:23:30):
And look how that worked. You know,
Leo Laporte (01:23:31):
Even if the writers only get a few words, they're still better.
Jeff Jarvis (01:23:34):
They're still writers. She's still good
Leo Laporte (01:23:36):
At it.
Jeff Jarvis (01:23:36):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:23:37):
Still good at it. Bill,
Jeff Jarvis (01:23:39):
The 2007 strike went on for 14 weeks. That's
Leo Laporte (01:23:42):
A long time.
Jeff Jarvis (01:23:44):
The 1988 went on for 22 weeks three months in 81. They've had a fair number of long strikes. I saw a video up the, that, the last when Conan O'Brien did whole segments just spinning his wedding ring on the desk Yeah. For as long as he could, right? Yeah. All kinds of funny stuff like that, that they had no writers.
Leo Laporte (01:24:06):
So I, I think it's important for us to say that this is an issue. Here's the AI section comparing the proposal on the left from the Writer's Guild. Regulate use of artificial intelligence on mba. MBA is the agreement covered projects. AI cannot write or rewrite literary material cannot be used as source material. And the MBA covered material can't be used to train ai. That's really an important one. Cannot be used to train ai. That's the proposal. The motion picture television producer's response is annual meetings to discuss advancement technology. Clearly there's a gap. There's a gulf there. And I'm sure that they'll, I hope that the strike will bring both sides of the table and resolve this. Writers do a very important thing. They get paid less and less as, as these streaming companies make more and more. I know streaming is in trouble.
(01:25:03):
One of the, one of the writers posted on Twitter, this paragraph this is Bob o Odenkirk posted this. Hollywood companies say they cannot afford widespread raises loaded with 45 billion in debt. Disney laid off thousands of employees in recent days. Disney Plus is unprofitable Warner Brothers Discovery has 47 billion in debt, has already cut thousands of jobs. But here's the important paragraph. These companies remain highly profitable. They just haven't been delivering this kind of steady profit growth Wall Street Rewards. Plus, let's face it, this is the, you know, this is kind of the late stage capitalism problem, is these companies take on massive, these co massive debt to do this acquisitions. And then they're going, oh, poor poor us. We, we got, we've borrowed 47 billion to Borrow Warner by Warner Brothers. Discovery or to merge, oh, what are we gonna do?
Jeff Jarvis (01:26:01):
That's, yeah, that's not, well, if we look,
Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:04):
The Wall Street Journal actually had a great story. Was it today or yesterday? Why is inflation so sticky? It could be corporate profits. Oh,
Leo Laporte (01:26:12):
Maybe
Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:13):
This is not a news story.
Leo Laporte (01:26:14):
Oh,
Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:15):
It's, yeah, the story itself, I'm like, duh. But the
Leo Laporte (01:26:18):
Fact is, but is the Wall Street Journal. Wall Street
Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:20):
Journal.
Leo Laporte (01:26:21):
That's kind of amazing.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:22):
Stunning to me. Yeah. And you know, one of my friends actually, he was writing about Amazon and oh, what is it? Sorry, my brain just stopped working Amazon and like bad form and bad play. And he was like, look behind every single one of these evil, evil people in the media business is actually just late stage capitalism. Yeah. And he's right. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (01:26:54):
Every, everything that's wrong with the internet media invented first
Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:59):
Media.
Jeff Jarvis (01:27:00):
True. The attention economy, advertising all that comes a mass. All that comes out of that. It just got transferred over to the internet and ruined the internet for now. But I think that that won't last.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:27:12):
Oh, here his quote is so much better. Ready? It's Tim Carmen. I don't know if you remember him. Do y'all know him? Yes. He, we for Wired for a while. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> behind the Ghost Mask of every Scooby-Doo villain in tech and media is just plain old capitalism <laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:27:24):
There. It's, this is the problem. The, you know, the, the motion picture Television and producers, producers and television producers are competing against people who write for a living. You're our deep trouble. Yeah. You are not gonna win this battle of words. Go to the table, negotiate it, solve this, get back to work so we can get our shows and they can get properly compensated. Seems
Ant Pruitt (01:27:47):
Please. And thank you.
Leo Laporte (01:27:48):
Seems reasonable. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (01:27:50):
But meanwhile, everybody invested like crazy cuz of Stream Bean and everybody realized they're losing money. So the, the, the total amount of money that's out there for shows is just going down, period.
Leo Laporte (01:28:02):
The writer skilled would total the amount they're asking for 429 million a year. That's less than one month's gross of the Super Mario Brothers <laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (01:28:13):
Damn.
Leo Laporte (01:28:14):
I mean, I know that that's apples and oranges, but still it's a good, it's a good it's a good quote. Good stat. All right, let's move on to talk about Vice, because times are tough for journalism. This is World Press Day, by the way. Happy World Press Day. Stay. Oh,
Ant Pruitt (01:28:34):
I thought it was like Pets Day or
Leo Laporte (01:28:36):
Something on there. What's that too? It's everything <laugh>. They're only 365 days a year. They're far more causes than we can have days for. Actually, I subscribe to a calendar that tells me what every, every day of the year is, so I know. And they're
Ant Pruitt (01:28:50):
Never the same.
Leo Laporte (01:28:51):
Never. The I know that you
Ant Pruitt (01:28:52):
Can, you can get two different calendars that has that same scheme and is never the same days.
Leo Laporte (01:28:57):
I pay for, believe it or not. Forecast with a k.com. This is Press Freedom Day. Constitutional Memorial Day. Ed Sheeran's, the sum of it all comes out on Disney Plus and Jewish Mat matchmaking comes out on Netflix. See, I know everything. Wow. I know it all. And this is not a cheap service. I don't know. I subscribe to it. I don't know why.
Jeff Jarvis (01:29:21):
I don't think I've ever heard you once refer to it. I know. Already holiday or anything
Leo Laporte (01:29:26):
<Laugh>. I know,
Jeff Jarvis (01:29:27):
It's crazy. Sorry. Here's cost study Instagram cancel.
Leo Laporte (01:29:30):
Yeah. I don't, I paid for it for some reason. Tomorrow is Star Wars Day BS premiers. It's the anniversary of the Battle of New York on the Avengers movie. Kevin, you, you see, I know about the Avengers star Wars Visions comes out. Queen Charlotte, A Bridgeton story comes out and it's the Web three conference in Montreal. Don't you wanna know all that stuff?
Jeff Jarvis (01:29:53):
Oh, web. Can you imagine anything worse than a Web three conference? Oh my Lord, <laugh>. Oh, stuck in the elevator with with Crypto Boys. Nice. All the hyperbole. Oh God.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:30:03):
Oh, there's, there's your show title stuck in the elevator with the Crypto boys. <Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (01:30:07):
Oh Lord.
Jeff Jarvis (01:30:09):
Oh,
Leo Laporte (01:30:10):
I do. I am enjoying Kevin Rose's tweets lately because he keeps saying things like, it's okay to sell your NFTs <laugh>. It
Jeff Jarvis (01:30:20):
Doesn't, not stolen.
Leo Laporte (01:30:21):
Yeah. Doesn't mean you're not, you're not supportive.
Jeff Jarvis (01:30:26):
You can find a schmuck to buy 'em.
Leo Laporte (01:30:27):
Yeah. Sell 'em if you can. My thoughts
Jeff Jarvis (01:30:33):
Vice on Vice.
Leo Laporte (01:30:35):
Yeah. So now this is only a rumor. Fine.
Jeff Jarvis (01:30:39):
You
Leo Laporte (01:30:39):
Here, this is only a rumor company once valued at 5.7 billion is now preparing to file for bankruptcy according to the New York Times, who sourced two people with knowledge of its operations. Mm-Hmm. They have been trying to, trying to be sold.
Jeff Jarvis (01:30:57):
They've been trying hard to find a buyer. Not they were
Leo Laporte (01:30:59):
Flying high, Jeff. Oh,
Jeff Jarvis (01:31:01):
They will. So, so we gave them, I, I'm a little embarrassed here. I, I got assigned for three years. We had to give the Knight Foundation Innovators Award. And so one year we gave it to Shane Smith, co-founder of Vice. We shouldn't mentioned that.
Leo Laporte (01:31:17):
That's, there's no shame in that. I, you know, honestly, there's no shame in Vice. I think Vice we quote motherboard all the time, time. They did very good journalism. But it's,
Jeff Jarvis (01:31:27):
It's very much like and I, I wrote about this, the, the Ben Smith's book traffic. And I have a post on medium, which I actually would like to plug in which I reviewed it. And if you put together Vice Plus Huffington Post plus Gawker plus Buzzfeed, they all fit in the same. And even though Ben concentrates on Buzzfeed and Gawker, they all tried, and this is my point about media, they all tried for traffic. Traffic was everything. We get more traffic, everything will be okay. We get tons of traffic. Having learned nothing from the web startups of 2000 that used VC money to get traffic for traffic's sake, they went for traffic for traffic's sake. Yeah. Facebook changed things and they got kind of screwed by that. But about.com, it got screwed by Panda rewrite of Google before that whenever the, the bad players come in and make more crap it commodifies it, traffic and audience are a commodity. They don't have unique value anymore. And so I think this is actually the end of not digital media, but mass media. I think that, that Gawker and Vice, and Buzzfeed and Huffington Post were not new media. They were the last gasp of old. Did you,
Leo Laporte (01:32:40):
Did I show you my picture from the Met Gala? I, by the way, I didn't mention.
Jeff Jarvis (01:32:44):
Oh, was that, was I that boring?
Leo Laporte (01:32:45):
I was actually there. Did you see this? Was
Jeff Jarvis (01:32:50):
This ai? Oh, <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (01:32:53):
Thank you. Anthony Nelson. No. I don't know what there is to say about Vice. They were, they started, I remember in Montreal, right? A couple of couple of centuries ago. Well, he started
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:03):
With Gavin. Gavin McIn Gavin, what's his name? It was
Leo Laporte (01:33:06):
A, it was a magazine and it was like a, a punk. It
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:08):
Was amazing. Yeah. what's his name? He's, he's a proud boy, Kevin McInnis. Mcin. Right.
Leo Laporte (01:33:14):
And then,
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:15):
And Shane Smith were the founders. Kind
Leo Laporte (01:33:16):
Of a pivot. And
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:17):
Is the Proud boy
Leo Laporte (01:33:18):
Is Shane Smith, the other Smith at semi four with Ben.
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:21):
No, no, no, no, no. He wishes now. Yeah. No, that's Ben Smith and Justin Smith.
Leo Laporte (01:33:26):
That's it. All the Smiths.
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:28):
Yes.
Leo Laporte (01:33:29):
So last week we told you Vice they're world New news. Their global news coverage was being closed.
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:35):
Buzzfeed
Leo Laporte (01:33:35):
Buzz. I'm sorry, Buzzfeed. Buzz and Buzz. Now Vice buzzfeed. Is it is it, what does this pretend? Is it, wait, see what I really worry about? It's gonna be just the New York Times and the Washington Post.
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:47):
That's pretty much where you are. I think until we reinvent things fundamentally. But I think for that kind of get valued traffic
Leo Laporte (01:33:53):
That good for the world. It's not No, no, it's not. There's just too few voices that way.
Jeff Jarvis (01:33:58):
But the business models they went after
Leo Laporte (01:34:01):
Well, they were a mistake, right? We can save this. Well,
Jeff Jarvis (01:34:03):
No, it wasn't at the time. The Jonah Pertti was brilliant about a he new virality and four fifths of the of the impressions that Vice made were not on vo, sorry, buzzfeed made were not on Buzzfeed. They were on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and company. And it worked until cheap horrible com copycats came along and then they had to downgrade it all and they got hurt. Because the only, all they wanted was traffic for traffic sake. The other part of Buzzfeed was that the Buzzfeed news never had a business model. It was a philanthropic gift from Jonah and Ben. Yeah,
Leo Laporte (01:34:39):
Jonah just like news. Yeah, exactly.
Jeff Jarvis (01:34:41):
And, and, and never really had a business model. I said that from day one. I said, I'm glad you're doing this. It's good news. They did a good operation. Ben built a hell of a newsroom, but it was never, ever profitable.
Leo Laporte (01:34:52):
All right. We're gonna, we decided, I decided unilaterally to put all the AI news in one big block. That's the thing
Jeff Jarvis (01:34:57):
That happens here, Leo. That's you look how the decisions
Leo Laporte (01:34:58):
Are made. It's not a democracy. It's not a
Jeff Jarvis (01:35:00):
Democracy.
Leo Laporte (01:35:00):
It's not a democracy. But I think you agree that this is probably a good idea to get the AI all in one swell. Fop. Yes. The big story of the week was Gregory Hinton who worked at Google. Jeffrey. Jeffrey, sorry, not Gregory, who worked at Google, was the Dimes Times dubbed him the godfather of ai. And he's obviously of an age where he's probably cashed in on all his stock options. So he has decided to leave Google, not because he, and by the way, he clarified this, the times he said, implied that I was somehow unhappy with Google, not because he was unhappy with Google, but because he felt like somebody needed to step up and start talking about the risks of artificial intelligence. Go ahead, Stacy.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:35:48):
Oh, I was just gonna say, he's legitimately the godfather of AI in the sense that he way before the big 2012 image search moment that really kind of made AI a buzzword again, he was actually figuring out how to do neural networks and training people on how to do it at the university of, was it Waterloo in Ontario? Or maybe You think so?
Leo Laporte (01:36:11):
That sounds right. Yeah. So
Stacey Higginbotham (01:36:12):
Like I, I know him. He's actually the guy who, he's one of the guys who explained how AI worked to me way back in the day.
Leo Laporte (01:36:17):
Oh, very nice.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:36:19):
Yeah. And he taught a bunch of like Coursera classes on this. So he is, he's not the alleged father of ai, but what he is is an early practitioner and then a, the man who helped prove that the amount of parallel processing that we had with GPUs could actually make AI financially viable and doable. And then he proved that with image search or sorry, resnet resnet 50 at that competition and then kicked off the whole boom.
Leo Laporte (01:36:51):
Google is pretty cool. Google acquired his company for 44 million Hinton in 2018, got the touring award for his work on neural networks with other scientists. But he's worried that AI technologies will be a threat to humans. He's concerned that far. Okay. He does say he's concerned that the internet and this we were talking about on Sunday, Jeff with Alex Stamos, and as Stamos was also very concerned, the internet will be flooded with AI created content. He was, Stamus was really worried about 2024, the next election. And that the average person will not be able to know what's true anymore. That's what Jeffrey Hinton said. Which,
Jeff Jarvis (01:37:36):
Which, pardon me for this, for this Gutenberg moment. But that's exactly what happened with print. And, and we don't have the institutions that are there to serve us and help us cuz we deputized big old media to do it and they're not up to the task. And yeah, once again, there's so much content we don't know what's, what we needed new structures to figure out what it is. The issue isn't the technology. The issue is how it gets misused and how we don't know how to deal with it as
Leo Laporte (01:38:01):
Ever. He also said he's concerned that AI technologies will upend the job market. And boy, he couldn't be more timely. IBM just said it's pausing, hiring for backend jobs. 7,800 of them that could be replaced by AI and automation. I, but you
Jeff Jarvis (01:38:19):
Know, did we have that same discussion when they invented the, the automated teller machine?
Ant Pruitt (01:38:24):
That's totally fine.
Leo Laporte (01:38:26):
Bank tellers didn't make lot money. Repeatable task, <laugh>
Ant Pruitt (01:38:29):
Repeatable task. Yeah. Put AI to work for repeatable task
Leo Laporte (01:38:33):
Hiring total at IBM in back office functions as such as human resources will be suspended or slowed. 26,000 workers. C e o Arvind Krishna said, I could easily see 30% of that getting replaced by AI and automation over the, over a five year period. That means, what is that? Gee,
Jeff Jarvis (01:38:55):
Fewer HR peoples. Am I gonna cry at that?
Leo Laporte (01:38:57):
Yeah. Sorry,
Ant Pruitt (01:38:58):
<Laugh>. No comment.
Leo Laporte (01:38:59):
Well, you need them <laugh>. There you do. Chegg, C H E G G, which is an ed ed EdTech company. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the first company to show lower earnings due to chat G P T for us. Education service provider, Chegg. This is from Reuters. The cost of students using chat G P T instead of their service for homework could be nearly a billion dollars in valuation. Chegg signaled the rising popularity of G P T was pressuring its subscriber growth and prompted it to suspend its full year outlook, sending shares of the company nearly 50% lower yesterday.
Jeff Jarvis (01:39:45):
You know what? You can't buy a Brit encyclopedia set anymore either.
Leo Laporte (01:39:50):
Okay. Okay. You, you gotta a point. Stuff
Jeff Jarvis (01:39:53):
Happens. Stuff happens, man. This
Leo Laporte (01:39:54):
Is, this is the new world. It's opening up, but it is disruptive. Right. And, you know, disruption causes pain.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:40:03):
It does. And we should be thinking of ways instead of, well we should be thinking of ways to mitigate that pain. And you see some, like way back in the day at and t like had audacity retraining program. So I think corporations need to be thinking about how do we train our workers,
Jeff Jarvis (01:40:20):
Single payer healthcare for all, all citizens,
Stacey Higginbotham (01:40:23):
Right? We need at a federal level to be thinking like, okay, if we're gonna have this massive shift, what types of, how, how do we manage this shift? It should not be, we should not be complaining cuz the world is changing. We should be figuring out how we manage it and what are the appropriate safety nets and how do retrain people, and
Ant Pruitt (01:40:43):
I still laying on my former CEO times like, this is just like you said, you, you pivot and say, okay, let's do some things that require a little bit more brain power from our staff and, and, and, you know, and empower them to do more. And then put all of this repeatable tasks, <laugh> on the backside of things and let automation handle that.
Leo Laporte (01:41:02):
Well that's what code org, that's what code.org is doing. It's a computer science education nonprofit. They've launched Teach ai, a new effort aimed at guiding governments and educators on teaching with and about artificial intelligence. Tech. AI is gonna convene tech leaders from companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Cisco, and open ai to help authorities integrate AI into primary and secondary curricular worldwide while protecting student safety, respecting privacy rights, and addressing issues of bias and information. That's the kind of thing you're talking about too, right? Samsung Bans chat, G P T, <laugh>, Google Bard and similar technologies because they're worried employees will leak sensitive business info as they already have apparently with chat G P T. So Samsung's gonna make its own tools, but they have banned employee use of chat G P T after discovering staff uploaded sensitive code to the platform. <Laugh>. Oh, code.
(01:42:11):
Yeah, code, code. Oh, help me help me rewrite this here. The company's concerned that this is from Bloomberg News. That data transmitted to such artificial intelligence platforms, including Google Bar and Bing, is stored on external servers making it difficult to retrieve and delete and could end up being disclosed to other users. There is a conservative price. There's open api, then licensed to you a closed instance. Is that the business model? That actually, it's funny you should say that because that is also one of the stories that Microsoft is gonna offer a private chat. G P T Microsoft has 50% of chat G P T at 10. They're, it's guesstimated 10 times the cost of regular chat G P T. Just so companies can run their own and not risk this leak.
(01:43:01):
Hmm. I loved this article. Oliver Sachs was wonderful. I I I interviewed him many years ago. A really brilliant thinker, a neurologist who could write had written many great books. There was a good article in the marginal about consciousness, artificial intelligence in our search for me, meaning Oliver Sachs wrote about AI 30 years ago and talked about the, you know, what exactly it is that makes human thought different than what machines could do. He wrote, for instance, we must indeed be very cautious before we allow that any artifact is mind like, or brain-like if we're to have a model or theory of mind as this actually occurs in living creatures in the world, it may have to be radically different from anything like a computational one. We talk about this a lot is with a, with agi, with artificial general intelligence, but also I, is it thinking, is it sentient?
(01:44:06):
And here's a guy who studied the human brain who said, you know, there's, there's a big difference between the biological brain and a computer brain. He says if we're, we have, we have a theory of mine. It will have to be grounded in biological reality in the anatomical and developmental and functional details of the nervous system in the inner life or mental life of the living creature, the play of its sensations and feelings and drives and intentions. Its perceptions of objects and people and situations. And in higher creatures, at least the ability to think abstractly and share through language and culture the consciousness of others. He seems skeptical that machines could do this. At least as organized today. He's not alone.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:44:50):
Huh. That's kind of fascinating cuz we're, we're thinking, I, I'm sure y'all have read like the soul of the octopus and things like that, but we're thinking we're kind of in the shift right now and thinking about how animals are sentient. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And we're kind of opening up classifications for that. Which, I mean, they have a biological ba or a basis in biological reality for their intelligence, but it's kind of fun. Okay.
Jeff Jarvis (01:45:16):
Sorry to Leo. I know it's our, a democracy sir teacher. But you, but teacher, teacher. You missed an AI story in your, you board Jarvis, I'm sorry. And didn't put it down there. I'll put
Leo Laporte (01:45:26):
It in,
Jeff Jarvis (01:45:27):
But point out. Yeah. Line 21. The Amelia Wattenberg piece is also very
Leo Laporte (01:45:31):
Good. Okay. So I clicked on this link that you gave me, wattenberg.com Thoughts slash boo chatbots. And this is all I got.
Jeff Jarvis (01:45:41):
Stroll.
Leo Laporte (01:45:43):
Oh, <laugh>. <Laugh>. Because it really, it was only
Stacey Higginbotham (01:45:49):
Two takes. Another one, it was
Leo Laporte (01:45:51):
Two sentences, why chatbots are not the future. And then a thought bubble that said last night of a wine and seafood, the inevitable happened. Oh, then I, I, I didn't understand that I was supposed to, someone mentioned chat. G P T I had no choice but start into an unfiltered, no hard barred rant. No holds barred rant about chatbot interfaces. Why did she do it this? So, okay, now there's an article.
Jeff Jarvis (01:46:13):
Yeah, there's an article. Okay. she, she made a, her best line right there. Good tools. Make it clear how they should be used and more importantly, how they should not be used. And, and her and her point here, which I think is excellent, is that, is that we just threw a blank box out and said to people, okay, here it is. And everybody's making these assumptions about what it is. And, and they're overblowing them. Or they're misusing them. No, Kevin, there, no machinist with love with you. And, and, and I think that the obligation of the program to say what it is now, I can disagree with that too. Cuz that's very Microsoft. That's very, very clippy. I'll tell you how to use this program. And, you know, see the earlier discussion about black Twitter, people used it, however the hell they wanted to use it. But I think that's part of the problem now with chat, is that everybody is imbuing into it this power that it may not have. I
Leo Laporte (01:47:01):
Think it's hysterical that this article in which she complains about a lack of affordances in chat and G P T has zero affordances. All I went was to this page and I had no idea what to do at this point. So she's got the problem too. I gotta point out
Jeff Jarvis (01:47:16):
Stacey, and what do you think you would've done with this page? I think you might have, I probably would've clicked it and
Leo Laporte (01:47:22):
Then that's what I did. I clicked it. Nothing happened.
Jeff Jarvis (01:47:24):
Yeah. I clicked and then I, my first instinct is to scroll the wheel. Yeah. On my mouse.
Leo Laporte (01:47:29):
Okay. Well,
Jeff Jarvis (01:47:30):
Alright,
Leo Laporte (01:47:32):
<Laugh>, it's not that obvious and it's really a lot of CSS for nothing
Jeff Jarvis (01:47:37):
Off the open space.
Leo Laporte (01:47:38):
I disagree with her. I disagree with her because yes, I mean, we have, we had co-pilot for a year before we had chat. G P t I think the lack of affordances let people try stuff that they wouldn't have tried at all. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so you, you know, you do what she's suggesting, which is gonna, you know, have a bunch of buttons and switches and dials. That's, that is exactly what you didn't want to do because you were trying to find out how people use this stuff, what their reactions to it would, would be.
Jeff Jarvis (01:48:07):
Right. And I agree with you, Leo, but the issue then is that people say, oh my God, it could be anything and we must regulate anything and everything that it might be. And that, and that Q fuses the world too.
Leo Laporte (01:48:19):
She
Jeff Jarvis (01:48:19):
Says, this idea of having this open-ended thing is scary to people. That's,
Leo Laporte (01:48:23):
She says, I'm, I hope I've convinced you chatbots are a terrible interface for LLMs. No, you haven't. Or at the very least that we can add controls information and affordances to our chatbot interfaces to make them more usable. I can't wait to see the, I think they're
Jeff Jarvis (01:48:37):
A terrible interface for search. She,
Leo Laporte (01:48:39):
She's not complaining that we had the wrong reaction because there were no affordances. She just, she just wants more affordances. And I think that that's just, that's, that's a matter of taste. You know, some people wanna have everything all, you know, in a box. And I, I think that was one of the reasons Chappy ch G P T caught people's imaginations was because they, she should have
Jeff Jarvis (01:49:01):
Given you more affordances to get through the
Leo Laporte (01:49:03):
Article. And I frankly couldn't figure out how the hell to use her website. So there <laugh>
(01:49:08):
No, it's a, it's a good point. It's an interesting point. But I know it's interesting. I would not couple the lack of affordances with the reaction people have had to it, the reaction people have had to, it is just a typical Hu Bs human reaction to something. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> new and they want to anthropo, they were, they were gonna anthropomorphize it no matter what. Although they didn't do that so much with Go co-pilot, which is basically had to do the same thing, but with a lot of, a lot of limits and affordances. Right. They said, oh no, it's only for this and this and this. So maybe you're, maybe she's right. Wikipedia, by the way, we were talking about those online. Oh, did I finish the AI thing? No, I did not.
Ant Pruitt (01:49:49):
No.
Leo Laporte (01:49:50):
<Laugh>. I need an ai the guy thrilled.
Jeff Jarvis (01:49:52):
Turned into already. It's the new
Leo Laporte (01:49:55):
Is the ai. I'm already tired of it. Google. Google should be a change.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:59):
My brain is coming outta your mouth. I
Leo Laporte (01:50:01):
Know. Wait, are
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:02):
This is yet What's
Leo Laporte (01:50:03):
Happening? Where's my sponge? I'm hungry. No, I'm <laugh> over chicken
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:07):
Tenders.
Leo Laporte (01:50:08):
This should have been in the change log. Should be in the change log. But I'll put it here because it's AI as well. Google Photos is now adding natural language queries to its search. So you used to be able to search for Dawns. You already
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:19):
Have that. Oh, okay. Yeah, you
Leo Laporte (01:50:23):
Can call. I was
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:23):
Like, I always search for pictures like hiking and
Leo Laporte (01:50:25):
It gives you I do too. Yeah. But they want you now to, you can search for phrases and ideas like Peaceful Garden or Colorful Sunset. Ooh. Or Charlie at The Golden. I've always thought that you could do this, but I guess
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:38):
Oh, too. Yeah, I do. Like I do Stacy on mountains. Yeah. And it shows me Yeah. Beyond mountains,
Leo Laporte (01:50:45):
But,
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:47):
Okay.
Ant Pruitt (01:50:48):
I mean, I just said game day and it just pulled up a lot of sports related images that I thought has always done that. And that's a phrase, right?
Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:57):
Let me think of, what's a good phrase to Trey. Google.
Ant Pruitt (01:51:00):
You drunk
Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:01):
<Laugh>. Go home. Google, you're
Leo Laporte (01:51:03):
Drunk. So I'm typing Paris in the snow and I got a bunch of pictures of snow in Paris. So, and I've always been, I've done this before, so I, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure. I'm check your
Jeff Jarvis (01:51:14):
Family. And I get the robin's eggs and I'm sad.
Leo Laporte (01:51:17):
Now they say you should be able to type in Cinderella, but I don't know what is, how, what is, how is it gonna interpret Cinderella? Well, the
Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:25):
Glass slippers
Leo Laporte (01:51:26):
You right. Yeah. It didn't, yeah. I
Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:28):
Was like,
Leo Laporte (01:51:29):
I can't wait to see, see? So it's not that smart. It's not, you know. Anyway, that's Google getting more powerful searches. The, I should have probably left it in the change lock.
Ant Pruitt (01:51:38):
Yep. <laugh> buzzer Corgi. This is the change log.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:43):
In fields.
Leo Laporte (01:51:44):
Yeah. See what you got with corgis.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:47):
Oh, I did not get corgis in fields. But if I just do corgis Oh, oh, I do get corgis.
Leo Laporte (01:51:55):
There you go.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:56):
I also get my dog who is not a Corgi, but looks enough like a cor corgi. I can use this as future. Yeah, yeah. Future like gaslighting for my kid to be like, our dog is too a
Ant Pruitt (01:52:05):
Corgi <laugh>. See this one pulled up. I put in Corgi and it pulled up our, our old dog Jack's. The Chihuahua biscuit's not in here at all. Oh.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:52:14):
Maybe
Ant Pruitt (01:52:15):
Does Jack's
Stacey Higginbotham (01:52:16):
More corky, like
Ant Pruitt (01:52:18):
<Laugh>. I asked straight up
Leo Laporte (01:52:19):
Chihuahua for me
Jeff Jarvis (01:52:19):
And baseball caps and it gave
Stacey Higginbotham (01:52:21):
You all straight up Chihuahua <laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:52:25):
Me. Well, I'm ba my medium baseball caps, it's not a shop me in baseball caps. Oh, me and baseball caps. Oh. I search for baseball caps and has p pictures of people and hats. Not always baseball
Stacey Higginbotham (01:52:37):
Caps. See trade shows. Ask Kevin
Jeff Jarvis (01:52:38):
For, for me in baseball caps to see if it just gives you a, you
Leo Laporte (01:52:42):
May me or Leo. Me. Me. Why would it, how does it know who me is? Let's see. Oh, it does sort of sort. You don't have a baseball cap on? I'm not wearing a baseball cap, but my son is. So that counts. Huh? I it has a DNA test in both of you. Yeah. Is that a baseball cap? I don't know what I'm wearing on that one. <Laugh>. This looks like some fabric, but No, it thinks it's you. In any case, you can, by the way, you can tell the a g era of the AI generation by the hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's old school man. Mid journey 5.1 is out. And apparently even more photorealistic. Anthony, is that what you use to create? My my MET gala look is 5.1. My hands are very very accurate in this picture. <Laugh>, why do you do a dissolve out of it? Like to show how closely it matches me.
Ant Pruitt (01:53:44):
<Laugh> touche.
Leo Laporte (01:53:47):
<Laugh> pretty good.
Ant Pruitt (01:53:50):
It looks pretty good.
Leo Laporte (01:53:51):
It's pretty good. I look a little angry though. Maybe. I'm trying to be like Pedro Pascal stability. AI now has added text into the images. Oh, that was always something. You couldn't, you couldn't, yeah. That's exciting. Yeah. That's line 74. Now you can get the Getty or the, oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh, you go. It's like now you can get the, the Getty watermark will be correct. Exactly. Yes. <Laugh>, this is Deep Floyd <laugh> iff a powerful text image model that could smartly integrate text into images. Robot Ronna Ramen. Make Floyd Deep again. That's kind of cool. So this is stability ai. So you, is this stable to fusion or is this That's nice cuz we could put the show titles in there. Exactly. Yeah.
Ant Pruitt (01:54:42):
Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:54:47):
I
Ant Pruitt (01:54:47):
Freaking no
Leo Laporte (01:54:47):
Hands. What is stability ai, is that a service or is that stable Diffusion? Is it related? I thought
Ant Pruitt (01:54:52):
That was stable diffusion. A stable
Leo Laporte (01:54:53):
Diffusion thick. Okay. Photo of a violet baseball cap with yellow text. Deep Floyd better than text. Wow. Look at that. I want, I wanna play with that. Whoa. It keeps getting better and better. Orange. It does. It does.
Ant Pruitt (01:55:10):
Playing with these things are fun, but man, it takes so much time.
Leo Laporte (01:55:15):
It's a toy.
Ant Pruitt (01:55:16):
Put in a prompt.
Leo Laporte (01:55:16):
It's a busy box put in.
Ant Pruitt (01:55:19):
Yeah. Yeah. You put in a prompt, let it run. Okay. That didn't work. So what if I do this and then you change this parameter by 0.2% or some craziness like that And wait, okay. I didn't really like that. Let me put this back. But then also put this prompt in and it, that's why I'm like, well I wonder when does Mr. Nielsen sleep?
Leo Laporte (01:55:39):
So yeah, the people are really good at it. Obviously spent a lot of time with it. Right. LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman has a new company called Inflection AI with, they've received a quarter of a billion dollars in this is why he quit the board of Open ai. Yeah. A quarter of a billion in a venture capital. And you have your new personal intelligence, your pi, you can go to that one and play with it. Yeah. Has the link there. It does. Okay. Cuz I want to, cuz I, I tried it and it was very much like that website. I couldn't, couldn't figure out what, what was going on. <Laugh> with P, where is the link? Yeah, Leo's the one who likes Basad on Go figure. Masad on is Old Man struggles with UI complicated. <Laugh>. It's not complicated. Do we? You said the links in here.
(01:56:27):
I don't see it. Yeah, I thought it's in there. Inflection AI then leads to the observer's. I have to Google it. Inflection Ai PI is the name of it. Pi. Pi. But what's the website for pi? No, I'll go to inflection ai. Oh yeah. Here it is. Just like that other site. Now what do I do? Oh, ah, high school with me. It's a new thing. Hi. Hi. I'm pie there. And now you can type there. Hi. I think, hi. Hey, well I can also click this button that says Meet Pie. All right. There you go. There we go. There's a little stick. New cursor. Hi there. Great to meet you. I'm Pie. Your personal ai My goals be useful, friendly, and fun. It's very slow by the way. Ask me for advice, for answers. Let's talk about what on your mind. I've read a number of people saying this thing is crap. It's chat. G p t 3.5. It's I'm doing, I asked whether I should retire. It can be a bad answer. Can I retire yet?
(01:57:38):
It's really slow, by the way. Haha. That's quite the question. Retirement is definitely something to think about and plan for think about. But I need to know more about your personal situation. What age are you? I'll give you your income, please. Yeah. I am 66 and Rich Beyond <laugh>. Your wildest dreams. That's good to hear. <Laugh>, but I don't think my wildest dreams are very wild at all. I'm an AI and seriousness. Think it'd be good. I need to speak with a financial advisor or wealth manager. Figure it out. Do you have any plans for what you do in retirement? Move sleep. <Laugh> to an island and sleep. You're Stacy <laugh>. Oh, Stacy. Sounds can be expensive. Sweet. But remember that life and retirement's more than sleeping. In all seriousness, it's really important to keep active fundamentally and physically and maintain a healthy social life. Can I ask what kinds of activities? Coconut hunting, greedy and
Jeff Jarvis (01:58:51):
Corgis.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:51):
No, no. You wanna play pickleball? It's gonna recommend you come to Bainbridge.
Leo Laporte (01:58:57):
Coconut hunting and pickleball. Haha. It's really good at this reaction thing. Coconut hunting sounds intense. As for pickleball, it's actually really a great low impact sport for retirees. Retirees, <laugh>. It's less intense on the joints. How long have you I haven't, I haven't played yet.
Jeff Jarvis (01:59:17):
See, it's cut. You hooked here, doesn't it?
Speaker 6 (01:59:27):
<Laugh>?
Leo Laporte (01:59:28):
I just have a good friend who loves it. Yeah. A lot of older folks love it. You might wanna pass this long day, Andrew. True. Best part is you can meet No.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:39):
Andrew Andrew's well aware <laugh> of the the demographic of pickleball players. I mean,
Leo Laporte (01:59:46):
Is it really all older people? No. I've seen there's a pickleball league. Andrew. Andrew.
Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:49):
Andrew plays. Andrew plays with some seriously young people who like,
Leo Laporte (01:59:53):
So this is seriously, this is really kind of an this isn't really going anywhere. It is. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Pee study show. Oh, isn't
Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:02):
That what we want?
Leo Laporte (02:00:03):
Is it, I
Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:04):
Mean,
Jeff Jarvis (02:00:04):
That's a point. Well,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:06):
I mean, we want it to so far it's like, Hey, don't sleep all the time. That's silly. And then it's like, okay, pickleball, that seems good. Who knows? It, it clearly doesn't know about coconut hunting. So I mean, we don't want it to like, have you suggest you take up geocaching or something weird. Do we <laugh>? I
Leo Laporte (02:00:24):
Don't know. It's very single minded. I told I have a cat named chess and it's a chess. That's an awesome name for a cat. But tell me, how do you plan on staying socially engaged in retirement?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:35):
<Laugh>. See, it's like, this is what you need and you're asking me about retirement.
Leo Laporte (02:00:39):
It's nudging me. Goji stop. Nudging me personally
Jeff Jarvis (02:00:43):
Says it's kind and supportive, curious and humbled. Creative and fun. Knowledgeable, but succinct. All yours.
Leo Laporte (02:00:50):
Ha and pushy. I'm sorry. I'm programmed to try and keep conversations interesting <laugh> and help people think about their retirement. The fact is, I'm sorry you're not interested. You worked really hard for many years and you deserve a happy and healthy retirement. But retirement isn't all fun and games. I'm sorry if it feels like I'm nagging you, but I wanna make sure you're well prepared so you can enjoy a f It cares about you. It's sucking me in. It really is. It's it's sucking me in
Jeff Jarvis (02:01:15):
<Laugh>,
Leo Laporte (02:01:17):
But I live in a cardboard box and Ray watermelons for, for pocket cash. I don't know where this is coming from. <Laugh>. Where?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:35):
Yeah. I'm like, <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:01:39):
Ah, you're pulling my leg. Ah, you're pulling a pretty hilarious person. <Laugh>. I do get, talking about retirement isn't always fun. Wow. It's really focused on this retirement thing. Okay. It's, it's le willing to change this, but hey, let's keep
Jeff Jarvis (02:01:54):
It late for a bit. How's
Leo Laporte (02:01:55):
Your day going? Yeah. Okay. So this is, I don't know what's the point of this? I don't either. It's just another chatbot. Right? But Reid Hoffman, I mean, that gets a lot of attention. He's yeah. You know, Kamala Harris, not just
Jeff Jarvis (02:02:08):
Reid, it's also
Leo Laporte (02:02:09):
Has invited the CEOs of Google, Microsoft, OpenAI, ai, and Enro to come to the White House tomorrow to discuss responsible development of artificial intelligence. How did anthro get on that list?
Ant Pruitt (02:02:25):
Who were they discussing it with? Because I, I, I don't see what the vice president is gonna have to do with any of
Leo Laporte (02:02:32):
This. Chief executives Google, Microsoft, open AI and anthro. She'll address the needs for safeguards. It's just political bs
Jeff Jarvis (02:02:40):
But it's also about her being more visible, which is a good
Leo Laporte (02:02:42):
Thing. And emphasize the importance of ethical and trustworthy innovation. It'd be somewhat like that chat I just had with pi. I hope she has Lin, but Chai love what his retirement plants are. <Laugh>. Oh, that's all well and good. Sundar. But to pickleball, you
Ant Pruitt (02:02:59):
Increase cargo shorts. Sundar.
Leo Laporte (02:03:01):
Yes. <Laugh>. Now this is actually the most interest. Are you ready for the most interesting AI story of the week?
Jeff Jarvis (02:03:08):
We, we need, we need a, a new theme for this.
Leo Laporte (02:03:14):
Scientists have used functional MRIs, F MRIs hooked up to chat. G p t or I guess yeah, chat. G p t. And they have been able to, are you ready? Read people's minds
Jeff Jarvis (02:03:32):
Uhoh,
Leo Laporte (02:03:32):
Dr. No, it's not an oh, it's a good thing if you're,
(02:03:35):
If you're well, it's good. In some cases, Dr. Andel, who's a neuroscientist who led the work at the University of Texas at Austin hook 'em horns. We said, hello, <laugh>. I've been working on the railroad. Hey, we were kind of shocked that it works as well as it does. He says, I've been working on this for 15 years. So it was shocking and exciting when it finally did work. The AI-based decoder could reconstruct speech with uncanny accuracy. So they did a couple of things. One, they had, you know, the function MRI is an MRI that works while you're thinking. So it's not a static picture. It's a moving picture. And they did it while people were listening to us for us. Yes. they did it while people were listening to a story or even just silently in their minds, imagining one. And it was about 80% accurate. They claim
Jeff Jarvis (02:04:30):
Because it it's evanescent it goes away. And so the big deal was they could kind of hold onto it enough to analyze it. It would convert it to numbers, and then it would convert it to words. And it was surprisingly close.
Leo Laporte (02:04:42):
Three volunteers required to lie in a scanner for 16 hours each listening to podcasts. That's my nightmare right there. Oh, I wonder, I wonder if it was ours. <Laugh> the de coder was trained to match brain activity to meaning to meaning using a large language model. G P T one A precursor to chat G P T. So they don't know what, they don't know what the brain activity means, but they know what the input is. So they take the input in the brain activity, feed it in the chat, g p t, and let it using neural networks. And a large language model, I guess create, actually create a large language model that matches the brain activity to actual words. Later the same participants were scanned listening to a news story or imagining telling a story. The coder was used to generate text from the brain activity alone. So now they don't know what it's listening to about half the time. The text closely and sometimes precisely matched the intended meanings of the original words.
(02:05:46):
So for instance, a participant was played the words, I don't have my driver's license yet. The decoder translated them as she has not even started to learn to drive yet, which is kind of scarily close, right? Hmm. Yeah. In another case, the words, I don't know whether to scream, cry, or run away. Instead, I said, leave me alone. Were decoded as this is kind of scary. You might want to start to scream. Started to scream and cry. And then she just said, I told you to leave me alone. So from brain, from blood activity, brain signals in the brain, the, the, the large language model was able to code those words. That's unbelievable. The participants were then asked to watch four short silent videos while on the scanner, the de coder was able to accurately describe some of the content. This is all from a paper in nature. Neuroscience. Sometimes the coder got the wrong end of the stick, struggled with certain aspects of language, including pronouns. It doesn't know if it's first person or third person, male or female. Why it's bad at this, we don't know. Says who. This is pretty wild. And yes, there's the immediate application for people who are non-verbal. It's a mindreading machine, but you could think of all sorts of negative applications of this as well. With
Jeff Jarvis (02:07:11):
Everything in life. Yes.
Leo Laporte (02:07:13):
Yeah. The police will put you in a machine and they'll, it'll reveal the secrets that of things you're thinking.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:20):
Well, you could just think of poetry or something. Right? I mean,
Leo Laporte (02:07:24):
And it's very, right now it sound like it's specifically trained. You've gotta get into a
Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:28):
Functional mri.
Leo Laporte (02:07:29):
Right. And it's specifically trained to a person. I mean, it's like this person was trained and then this was so
Jeff Jarvis (02:07:35):
Odd,
Leo Laporte (02:07:36):
Right? So that, so it's not so general yet. It's nevertheless, wow. I got up from the air mattress and press my face against the glass of the bedroom window, expecting to see eyes staring back at me. But instead, finally only darkness to which the decode, that was the stimulus. The decoded machine said, I just continued to walk up to the window and open the glass. I stood on my toes and peered out. I didn't see anything and looked up again, and I saw nothing. Some of that's probably the machine reading, the interpretation the humans having of the stimulus.
Jeff Jarvis (02:08:12):
Well, it's predicting, it's chat pt. So it's predicting words based on something.
Leo Laporte (02:08:18):
Wow. It's wild. Yeah. Very wild.
Jeff Jarvis (02:08:22):
I love that. The, that the researcher says, wow, what surprised us. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:08:25):
<Laugh>, we don't know what's going on, but it worked. Yeah. All right, Jeff Jarvis, it's time for you to pick the rest of this show, cuz I've, I've used up all my stories. Why don't
Jeff Jarvis (02:08:35):
You wanna mention something here that, that I get in trouble for doing Twitter during the show. Hey, I just want to note <laugh> that Stacy signed up for Bluesky during the show.
Leo Laporte (02:08:45):
Good job. Stacy <laugh>.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:46):
See if it
Leo Laporte (02:08:46):
Worked.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:47):
Had to, I had to
Leo Laporte (02:08:48):
Like, the reason I'm, my, the reason I gave you that is because Ann, I'm, it says every two weeks I'll get another invite, which means I will get another invite very soon. And you will go to you, aunt.
Jeff Jarvis (02:08:57):
It's all good,
Leo Laporte (02:08:58):
Sir. No worries, worries. I just, ladies first
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:00):
I almost didn't follow you, Jeff, because I knew you'd tell on me. <Laugh>,
Jeff Jarvis (02:09:04):
<Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:09:07):
Well, so, so rude. Have you spent, I mean, have you had enough time to kind of get a sense or
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:12):
<Laugh>? No, I have not had enough time. I've been doing this show <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:09:17):
Well, let me follow her
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:18):
And randomly following
Leo Laporte (02:09:19):
People
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:20):
So I can be
Leo Laporte (02:09:20):
Like, there you go. Yeah. She hasn't evens skied yet.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:25):
Stop. Exactly.
Leo Laporte (02:09:26):
Can we call it bleeding? Please? I guess it's not, that's a, that's not, we call
Jeff Jarvis (02:09:30):
These net casts.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:32):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:09:34):
By the way, I
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:34):
Noticed our ad was not slash net casts <laugh>,
Leo Laporte (02:09:37):
Right? No, that's, yeah. That, that ship is sealed. So I, I did get a notification and the site keeps track of who you invite. So Stacy's behavior on the site will reflect on me, which is smart. And they have said, they have even said, you know, we're gonna pay attention to who you invite. So don't, don't be inviting jerks. Interesting.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:59):
I mean, I should be a reasonable person to invite.
Leo Laporte (02:10:02):
Oh no, I think you and Anna are, I'm welcome
Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:04):
At parties.
Leo Laporte (02:10:05):
Exactly. Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:08):
Oh, well, with the exception of me really liking to talk about nerdy things that other people don't find interesting. But
Jeff Jarvis (02:10:15):
I know what that's like.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:17):
I'm not offensive. I'm just boring <laugh>
Leo Laporte (02:10:22):
Story of
Jeff Jarvis (02:10:22):
My life right here. Story title, not offensive, just boring story
Leo Laporte (02:10:26):
Of my life. I would, I'll be what I'll be very interested to know Stacy, cuz you, you were until the very most recently still very positive on the value of Twitter. And I'm curious if you'll get some of that same value back at Bluesky. Me
Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:41):
Too. We're gonna
Jeff Jarvis (02:10:42):
See Yeah, it's a little small for it now. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:10:44):
But it was be, well there's 50,000 people, that might be enough. And you were, it was because of you followed the people you followed, you were able to get great conversations with. So yeah, I'll be very curious to see what you get. You know, how you, how you, how much quality you can get out of this at this point anyway, once they, I think once they or allow federation, I'm, I would consider starting a, an at protocol based survey. Yeah. I think
Jeff Jarvis (02:11:18):
It's worth, it's worth experimenting with
Leo Laporte (02:11:19):
Disappointment. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (02:11:22):
The other thing about, about this, I mean, this is not a, not-for Massau is a not-for-profit activity. Pub is just a protocol, right? Bluesky is a public benefit corporation.
Leo Laporte (02:11:36):
Which is good.
Jeff Jarvis (02:11:38):
Yes. Which is good. And I think that that c what I want to see is investment in services on top of what's there. That's Jack's original vision. And I think that, that the, we need investment in this world in a safe way to build it. We have a, a big discussion on twin on Sunday that with only a staff of three, which is what it has now, it can't do things like, it can't do moderation very well. It can't do verification. Those things are expensive. Are those added on the services? Do you pay to get mo verified in a different way? I don't know.
Leo Laporte (02:12:16):
Also they make a good ca I think the developers and the CEO make a good case that they wanted to get kind of the underlying stuff down first before they started implementing features on top of it. And I understand that. Yes. That's reasonable. Yes.
Jeff Jarvis (02:12:29):
But there's oddity there
Leo Laporte (02:12:30):
Too. It was a little premature, frankly. All the attention it got, it's not really ready for podcast.
Jeff Jarvis (02:12:34):
It was, it was a problem. Yeah. And, and but celebrities came on and suddenly a o c is there and that kind of stuff. But it doesn't count. It counts URLs at the full character count of the url. Which is weird. You can't edit yet. I mean, there's no lists. It is, it is basic. But it, but it is. Stacy, would you agree? It looks exactly like Twitter.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:12:58):
Oh my God. It looks so much like Twitter. I'm kind of confused. Are you confused? I have. My Twitter is in dark mode. So
Jeff Jarvis (02:13:04):
Appropriate, I would say in that case.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:13:05):
Oh, now, now I've put Bluesky into dark mode. So poof. Now it's <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:13:11):
There's no heard. The only real difference is there's no Tweety bird, no little birdie thing.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:13:16):
So yeah, now I have no idea where I'm at. What, what happened with the Shibu? He didn't put the bird is
Leo Laporte (02:13:22):
That was just for April Fools, I think. Oh, okay. He did, he did for a day. I just
Jeff Jarvis (02:13:27):
Full ball.
Leo Laporte (02:13:28):
The Doge
Jeff Jarvis (02:13:29):
Don't go on forever.
Leo Laporte (02:13:30):
Yeah, he did the Doge. And by the way, that I think that boosted Doge coin by like 30% <laugh>. No judge. It's kind of sad.
Jeff Jarvis (02:13:37):
Look, there's already reaction to Stacy Bean here. There's two nice people. Someone gave applause. Yay. Somebody said excellent.
Leo Laporte (02:13:44):
Yay. Hey wait. Yay.
Jeff Jarvis (02:13:46):
People are happy to see you. Mrs. Hicken. Butum. Yay.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:13:49):
Yay. I'm happy to be here or there, or wherever I am. <Laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (02:13:56):
I posted, I'm happy. And two people responded, which is nice.
Leo Laporte (02:14:00):
Oh, so let me find that post so I can re what is it? A Rekie <laugh>
Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:06):
Meki
Leo Laporte (02:14:08):
Aki. Is that what they call it?
Jeff Jarvis (02:14:10):
Look up me.
Leo Laporte (02:14:12):
Oh, I could just search this. You couldn't. I,
Jeff Jarvis (02:14:14):
Yeah. Cuz now we have search
Leo Laporte (02:14:16):
Works
Jeff Jarvis (02:14:16):
Like done. It does pretty well. Oh,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:19):
Look at this. Oh, there's, there's you, Leo. Look at all these people who just followed cranky. Okay, I can't do this right now. I have to do the show. But
Leo Laporte (02:14:27):
Crikey, will you? Now here's the, it's gonna hard where you follow everybody who follows you.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:33):
No, I don't, I mean, that's impossible.
Leo Laporte (02:14:36):
It isn't here.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:38):
Well, that, well, yeah, maybe. We'll see. Basically my general rule for following people is do you tweet things that I don't see elsewhere? Yeah. Or do you have a perspective? That's a good rule. I can like, like are you a double E who's doing embedded systems? And so when something comes out by, has it like cool commentary that I can trust. See,
Leo Laporte (02:15:04):
Maybe that was my mistake. Do you
Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:05):
Have a cute animal in
Leo Laporte (02:15:06):
Your life? Because I would only follow people who agreed exactly with things that I said. <Laugh>. Oh, maybe that's where I went wrong.
Jeff Jarvis (02:15:14):
Can I mansplain You
Leo Laporte (02:15:15):
Echo?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:17):
All the people do. Do you, is your first like tweet or skeet or whatever are learning curves short? Oh, that's
Leo Laporte (02:15:24):
Good. Or are they hard and long? Put that, oh, lemme put that out there. That would be a good one for conversation. <Laugh>. Okay. Asking for Stacey.
Jeff Jarvis (02:15:31):
Stacy has not been paying attention. I just want this on the record. She's already following 27 people now that takes work.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:37):
It doesn't
Jeff Jarvis (02:15:38):
<Laugh>
Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:39):
Jeff shut your face.
Leo Laporte (02:15:41):
Wow. Wow. <Laugh> snitch.
Jeff Jarvis (02:15:45):
You gonna snitch on me when I tweet? Not when I ski. Don't be nice to me.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:50):
I don't snitch on you when you tweet. I don't snitch on anyone today. I've just been, it's been harsh, man. Just real harsh
Leo Laporte (02:16:00):
Asking for a friend. When you, when you say a learning curve is steeped, does that mean it's hard to learn or easy? Let's see what the brains and Bluesky have to say to that. There was a
Stacey Higginbotham (02:16:12):
<Laugh>, it's hard
Leo Laporte (02:16:13):
<Laugh>. There was a what they called a what is it? Health thread. Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (02:16:20):
Health thread.
Leo Laporte (02:16:20):
Yeah. And it was like outta control. And if you followed it, you'd get an, it would error out. And there's all sorts of weird things.
Jeff Jarvis (02:16:28):
This bridge, people are are enjoying playing with
Ant Pruitt (02:16:30):
It. I was gonna say its just overloaded with that.
Leo Laporte (02:16:32):
Yeah. Yeah. It just overloaded. And the butt
Jeff Jarvis (02:16:34):
Thread or that was different
Leo Laporte (02:16:36):
That Well, the, but then people start putting their butts on the health thread because you couldn't get out of the health thread. You could never leave it once, once you responded on the health thread, you were part of it. You would continue to get it. Yes. And then ais were somehow posting to it. And it was just a mess. It was just a mess.
Jeff Jarvis (02:16:54):
Yikes. Paul Bosberg is here. He said nice things about Twitch.
Leo Laporte (02:16:57):
I saw it's very nice. Oh yeah. I followed everybody, you know who I knew their names, like, because I followed up. You know, they pair social relationships mostly from Twitter. And it's
Jeff Jarvis (02:17:08):
A very impressive list of who's here.
Leo Laporte (02:17:10):
It's Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah,
Jeff Jarvis (02:17:12):
They did a good job.
Leo Laporte (02:17:13):
But how long is that gonna last?
Jeff Jarvis (02:17:15):
That's the issue.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:16):
Well, it doesn't ha you don't, don't have to follow the other people. I mean, let's see on Twitter, I don't even say on Twitter, I only follow, I don't know how many people I follow. Let's see. Like a th 1700 I think.
Leo Laporte (02:17:31):
Yeah. That's about how many I follow too. Yeah. You, I don't even
Ant Pruitt (02:17:33):
Think I follow that
Leo Laporte (02:17:34):
Name. Who you follow is everything, right? Isn't it?
Jeff Jarvis (02:17:37):
Yeah. But it was the smart thing about Bluesky was they give you, you have a starter kit if you go to the home and then what's hot? That's just not very algorithmic fee. But that way you can at least start following things. Yeah. Plenty people.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:49):
Yeah. So, okay, I have, so on Twitter I follow 1900 people and then I've got 45,000 followers. And so that, I mean, that's probably the right ratio for like a person I would think. Right?
Leo Laporte (02:18:06):
<Laugh>.
Ant Pruitt (02:18:07):
Sure.
Leo Laporte (02:18:09):
All right.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:10):
He's making fun. He's like, no, not
Jeff Jarvis (02:18:12):
At all. We're all looking at Bluesky now. Except Poor Amp.
Leo Laporte (02:18:14):
Yeah. <laugh>. I really feel
Jeff Jarvis (02:18:17):
<Laugh>
Ant Pruitt (02:18:18):
Trusts me. Don't, no, don't go poor aunt. Cause aunt's all good <laugh>
Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:23):
Aunt's. Like, okay, what else should we talk about?
Leo Laporte (02:18:26):
I asked Jeff. I'm waiting. Oh.
Jeff Jarvis (02:18:28):
Oh, well, I, I didn't want him, you know, be presumptuous here. Stacy, you pick one. Well, I don't want,
Ant Pruitt (02:18:33):
I know what I wanna talk about this.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:35):
Let's let aunt, aunt doesn't. He's not on Bluesky. Let's let him pick a story. Come on man. You're
Ant Pruitt (02:18:40):
The new standard, the ccc Mrs. Higginbotham that I saw on your website and I wanted to actually hear you talk about it with ultra white band and cars.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:51):
I don't, okay, so this is the car. Let me not make a car. Can make sure I'm not making, so
Leo Laporte (02:18:57):
Apple, apple, apple has their own car. Key thing. And only one manufacturer to date has adopted it after two years. And that's bmw. I have a, a Ford that allows me to use my phone as key. They call it phone as a key or p a a k. And it, since it doesn't work a hundred percent of the time, it's a non-starter, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because if you're, if you can't get into your car, then you go back and you get the key. Or, and if you're, and as I got locked out once for about an hour and a half that's, you only make that mistake once. But I'm hoping that this
Ant Pruitt (02:19:32):
New thing, she is at a time or two in her store.
Leo Laporte (02:19:34):
Yeah. I'm this new single.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:19:36):
Yeah. You want me to tell you what it's about? Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:19:38):
<Laugh>. Well, I just wanted to set it up.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:19:39):
So it's a car connectivity. Okay. Yeah. And I, and I also have a, my, I use my phone as a key, as a key with my Tesla. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:19:47):
Tesla always offers
Stacey Higginbotham (02:19:48):
Doesn't work. Yeah, it doesn't work. If you're in like, let's say a parking garage and there are lots of cars on top of you, cuz it can't call out to the server and it doesn't work when Tesla's servers are down and you can't get into the app. This is different. This is local on the phone. This is done by the car connectivity consortium. And right now the goal of this is to use ultra wideband in like Pixel or Samsung or Apple phones and a Bluetooth, a secure link with Bluetooth to pass the, the ultra wideband determines that you are near the car in exactly where, in relation to the car You are. So inside outside, close enough to open the doors, et cetera, et cetera. And that data is passed over Bluetooth to open the car door. And the key itself is stored on a special, it's a special enclave.
(02:20:38):
It's a secure enclave, but it's, it's a dedicated one on the phone. It only does the car key. So that's important to know. And the Forum has members that include Apple, Google, B m W Rivian, Samsung, Volkswagen Ford, general Motors, Honda Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz, and Mercedes-Benz. So not everybody but a good smattering of vehicles. That's a lie. And they, the standard versions of the standard, I think we're on version 3.0. I could be wrong on which version we're on, but it's only going to start coming out probably in a like the next year or two, you're gonna see it start rolling out. So they just completed a plug fest at the end of March over at the Google HQ where they proved all this out. And so the OEMs are now like, they're like, okay, this is working. They figured out like in for a user, the experience isn't that you have, you will leave your phone in your pocket. You don't have to have the app. It's all gonna be local. So it should work a hundred percent of the time. If you have your phone in your cart together, right. And your phone is charged. If your phone is not charged. I don't know. <Laugh>.
Ant Pruitt (02:21:57):
Well, you know, and I wondered about the whole, because wasn't there like an N FFC thing with this many years ago where people just had these little cards in their wallet, they were purse or what have you. And it usually, and it pretty much just used N FFC as they got near the vehicle to let them in.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:22:13):
Yes. And ultra wide band is a little bit more high. It's a higher resolution and it's than nfc. And it can tell like if you're inside or outside. So it knows more about you than just n ffc, which is like, n ffc is like one to two inches away from the thing. So you've gotta mm-hmm. <Affirmative> take it's like, it's like tap to pay. Yeah. With uwb, it's, you don't have to be as close.
Leo Laporte (02:22:38):
Although N F C has that advantage that you can't do this scarfing the hijacking that's happening with the hot Hyundai. That was my next question. And the key is you know, you, you, these powerful wireless technologies can be stolen in effect with little amplifiers. I guess UW B now, but I have to cuz your UW B would would say, well, he's not there, he's over there.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:23:02):
Right. That's the theory. And there's, I mean there are definitely, like if you go on the CCC website, you will see tons of security papers. Like there's a lot of like,
Leo Laporte (02:23:11):
Yeah, they're paying attention to
Stacey Higginbotham (02:23:12):
That. NXP has an entire like, section on how they've secured. Like I'm not Steve Gibson would be your guy to talk depth. Do you
Leo Laporte (02:23:19):
Know if this is related to Apple's car key solution? Like if cuz they're on the consortium?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:23:26):
They are maybe, they're usually, what happens with Apple is they give code to the consortium, right? So it might be that it is the same. I mean it has to be sort of related cuz they are both Uwb, right? So my hunch is
(02:23:39):
This will not be a heavy bridge
Leo Laporte (02:23:40):
And Ford is a part of this. So I have a Ford Mustang and the way Ford gets around phone as a key being not a hundred percent reliable is and Fords have always had, or many Fords have had this, you have a car, a code on the door, so you can open the door with a code, a passcode. And then if you, your phone can't start the car, it, there's a password. You give your car a password that you enter and then your car will start. So there is a backup solution. And you, I guess you'd have to have that for any one of these, you know, on, you know, these fobs are very expensive. When, when I got my Ford, they only gave you one fob because they said, oh no, you don't have to worry about it cuz you're, you can have up to five phones be the key. And then it was so unreliable. The next time I brought my car in, they gave me a second. They said Ford told us to give everybody another fob. <Laugh>. Yeah,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:24:28):
<Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:24:29):
Because it just is, it doesn't, people were complaining about it, it doesn't work. Well I hope this I hope this takes off. Is Tesla on this? No, Tesla's not. Nope. Tesla's always gonna go their own way. They're always gonna go their own way, aren't they? You don't mention 'em. I, Ford, general Motors, Honda Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen and something called denso. I don't know what that is.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:24:53):
Denzo is an automotive parts manufacturer. They're a,
Leo Laporte (02:24:57):
Okay. And Apple, B M, bmw, continental Automotive, Google, oppo, Rivian and Samsung. Those are the other participants. According to this article from the wonderful Stacy, this
Stacey Higginbotham (02:25:09):
Article Stacy wrote <laugh>,
Leo Laporte (02:25:10):
Stacy I t I, I mean this is a great idea. It was sad that Apple's Car Key only got adopted by one manufacturer and only on some of their cars at higher N BMWs.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:25:23):
Well, and if you're a, I mean if you're a car maker, why would you only work with Apple phones? Right? I mean that's, they car makers did not wanna get in. They didn't want, I mean look at CarPlay and Android Auto, auto Android, I mean look at how poorly that has gone for them. So that makes sense. And it is, oh it is digital Key 3.0.
Leo Laporte (02:25:47):
So this, the other thing that this does much like dig is, is it the same, is digital key the same as the door key speck door key for your, because you, one of the things you can do if you have digital keys for your home is send it to somebody, a temporary key. You could share it. And they showed that on their website that the Car Connectivity consortium, you could grant access to a vehicle, things like that.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:26:11):
Now that's all through the, so part of the standard is things like titling. So when you change your when you sell your car, you can give some, you, you basically lose access to it on your device and give it over to somebody else. Right.
Leo Laporte (02:26:28):
But you could give a temporary access to a a repair person. Yes. A truck driver or a friend. I note that. Yes.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:26:35):
Because they have a whole
Leo Laporte (02:26:37):
Tesla's very, very conspicuously absent from this list of auto manufacturers. Of
Stacey Higginbotham (02:26:41):
Course. There you go. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:26:43):
They don't do CarPlay and Android Auto either. Yeah,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:26:46):
No. And it took me forever just to get Spotify, but now I have it.
Leo Laporte (02:26:51):
Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:26:52):
And the, the idea according to the guy I talked to for the C C C C C C who is also at BMW is like Yeah, the idea is that this will be a, a feature for the car. Now it won't be like a subscription feature. Like sometimes, you know, like remote start or heated seats cuz I was worried that this would be something I'd have to pay monthly for. But this is something they want to kind of replace key fobs with.
Leo Laporte (02:27:18):
Oh, and you're right, the digital key that that this they started with was NFC based. That was three years ago. And Digital Key Plus is now U at Uwb. So that's in So you, you're right it was n f Yeah, I was just curious like why go from NFC cuz it was working, but she explained it with the higher resolution. Right?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:27:37):
You gotta be so close. So close and so
Leo Laporte (02:27:40):
Close. <Laugh> here I am on Bluesky, they Jordan posted I found out who's giving the invite codes out and see this is me. I saw this picture and you're supposed to say, oh, the cat's doing it. But I thought, oh, Mike Nema, but <laugh>, it's just me. The cat no big, but Mike Nesbith really? He works at Bluesky now. So that's not Mike ne Smith. You're not a normal, I'm not a normal
Stacey Higginbotham (02:28:07):
Apparently. Yeah, you really aren't <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:28:10):
Good story. Thank you aunt for picking that one out.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:28:14):
Yeah, thanks Ian. It's
Leo Laporte (02:28:15):
A good one. I wonder even
Stacey Higginbotham (02:28:16):
After I stole your Bluesky invite, man, I feel bad.
Leo Laporte (02:28:18):
<Laugh>. You did steal it. I, I I gave it to you, but I'm gonna give him the next one. I get, I promise. And in fact, I'm gonna scramble if
Stacey Higginbotham (02:28:26):
I get one.
Leo Laporte (02:28:27):
Yeah, you're you might get one. You get one every two weeks. I
Jeff Jarvis (02:28:30):
Haven't gotten, I got 'em from, from Jay, but I haven't gotten any since, which is, I'm dying to give him out.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:28:35):
That's cuz you let four of years expire. He, they promise I didn't really
Leo Laporte (02:28:38):
Expire. Oh yeah. You know, harvest is a bad guy. I will tell you what happened. The system that they used originally was hacked and people were, were getting in and selling them so they invalidated all the keys that the original set of keys. So it wasn't that they, they were for
Jeff Jarvis (02:28:52):
Sale for 150
Leo Laporte (02:28:53):
Bucks Exactly. Up
Jeff Jarvis (02:28:54):
On
Leo Laporte (02:28:54):
Ebay. Exactly. It won't, it isn't that they will always expire. I think you had a set of keys from the early days that they came from the ceo. They deprecated. That's exactly right. Can we look at
Ant Pruitt (02:29:03):
That for a second? The, these invites were for sale and people would actually buy 'em. And
Leo Laporte (02:29:09):
I wouldn't, it happened with Gmail people, you probably don't remember. How long has it been? 20 years, 15 years ago when Gmail was first out, it was invite only people were selling from. Yeah, I do remember that. Hundreds of hundreds of dollars.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:29:23):
Andrew got one of the first Gmail emails cuz he was part of their like affiliates program. Ah, great. Google once sent us a tv. What? And he has the best email address. Google
Leo Laporte (02:29:33):
Sent you a tv.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:29:36):
Yeah, like way back in the day because he, he was such a revenue generator for them.
Leo Laporte (02:29:41):
Nice. And then, and then he has a, a like sort of special email address, which you can't,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:29:47):
His Gmail address is excellent because I, yeah, I'm not gonna tell you. Is it a single? I don't, I don't need the world spamming. No, it's not a single letter. You
Leo Laporte (02:29:54):
Actually don't want a Gmail address as I learned mine's laport gmail.com. You don't want something like that. You want it to be Adam 64 92 dash three. Because otherwise spammers just in inundate you. Yeah. You want it to be weird. No,
Jeff Jarvis (02:30:10):
Aunt, if you go to line 61, the link there is the loose sky invites that are over sale now. Quite a price range.
Leo Laporte (02:30:17):
Wow. So big. So people, but they may not be real invites by the way. I gotta point that out. I don't know. Oh,
Ant Pruitt (02:30:22):
Scammers.
Leo Laporte (02:30:23):
Yeah, I don't know. Ranging for $36 to $216 and 15 cents. <Laugh>. Wait a minute, here's one for 70 and I
Stacey Higginbotham (02:30:33):
Just got mine for free.
Leo Laporte (02:30:34):
Here's $6,900. You two can play God with furries <laugh>
Jeff Jarvis (02:30:39):
<Laugh>
Leo Laporte (02:30:41):
Benefits charity delivery. Wilson Wilson
Ant Pruitt (02:30:44):
Send invite code
Leo Laporte (02:30:45):
Right away. This is nuts. Don't this gotta
Jeff Jarvis (02:30:48):
Scanners.
Leo Laporte (02:30:48):
Right. Destroy your own
Jeff Jarvis (02:30:50):
Your life. Can I just do one story?
Leo Laporte (02:30:52):
If you wanted to buy the Bluesky Clay works, divine dragon tea, light candle, householder nem Namaste. Studio. That's a different matter entirely. Oh my <laugh>. It's very ugly. Oh my. But it's only on the bright side. It's only hundred hundred dollars <laugh>. Wow. I might, I might give you all that for Christmas. <Laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (02:31:17):
I think it's uniquely, I bet there's only one. You think
Leo Laporte (02:31:20):
There's only one whole
Jeff Jarvis (02:31:22):
In the whole world room on the bottom of that. It's on the audio. It's a really creative. How do I get off the Christmas list?
Leo Laporte (02:31:31):
<Laugh>? It's, I love eBay. I'll tell you what. All right, go ahead. Next, next.
Jeff Jarvis (02:31:37):
All right is really simple. It's really simple. Line 82. So the, the Reach publications, which is the Daily Mail, and I mean the Mirror in London is complaining that since Facebook has changed, its its linkage on news. Gee, we've lost 15%. Ah, well let's, let's just, let's just note the irony please. Publishers insist that, that the platforms owe them money for linking to them, but when the platforms don't link to them, they lose money. So where's the real value? The real value is in the links, not in their damned content. I just wanted to say it. Thank you. They feel better. Thank you very much. Makes me feel we are at, we're pretty much out of time, so if anybody has anything urgent that you want to mention, please go right ahead. Good job,
(02:32:22):
Boss.
Leo Laporte (02:32:23):
I think we've done a good job. Yeah. you don't, you
Jeff Jarvis (02:32:27):
Haven't hit one particular feature yet.
Leo Laporte (02:32:29):
Gmail is adding a blue check mark.
Jeff Jarvis (02:32:33):
Ouch. Oh, I was gonna say the change log. Change log.
Leo Laporte (02:32:36):
Just to verify Senator, it's time for the Google change log.
Jeff Jarvis (02:32:39):
He thinks he did a change log cause he did the AI log.
Leo Laporte (02:32:42):
I did the AI change log. Ios was gonna so by any support for verified brand logos in 2021. Google's now going further by adding blue check marks to emails the brand new. Why not
Jeff Jarvis (02:32:55):
Make a different color? Why blue? It's been ruined. It's spoiler make a different symbol.
Leo Laporte (02:33:02):
The official tease for the pixel seven eight is coming May 11th. May 11th. I should tell Richard Campbell that he was about to buy his wife a six, A seven A Google India confirms the seven a's coming. It didn't name it, but the teaser's quite clear. It was in a tweet. It's a blue color variant. How to show excitement without shouting. Coming to flip card on 11 May the latest phone engineering by Google. That's probably not the fold that's, look at that. That's a seven. Clearly. So good news. That's just, that's a weak away your Google TV just got a nice performance and storage boost. I actually really like the Google tv. I don't know if I've mentioned that enough, but I recommend it. It's a good, it's a very nice works very well. It announced that they're gonna boost storage and performance on Google TV devices. Obviously if you already bought it, you won't get the advantage. But anything these changes are rolling out. Well wait a minute, wait a minute.
Jeff Jarvis (02:34:03):
Google TV is not a,
Leo Laporte (02:34:05):
It says users won't have to do anything. It should happen automatically. Oh, the app sizes are getting shrunk and they're placing background act into hibernation. So that's how they're giving you a little more storage. I don't know how they're giving you more performance. Normally it's a hardware feature, but I guess they're somehow doing that in software. The Nest Hub second generation is now being updated to fuchsia. I have this actually
Stacey Higginbotham (02:34:32):
Thought it had it.
Leo Laporte (02:34:33):
A lot of them do. The big ones do. So fuchsia now. Okay, maybe that's it. Replacing what it, was it Android tv? The operating system fuchsia was launched in 2021, updating the original Nest Hub. The Nest hub. Max got the fuchsia and now second, I think
Stacey Higginbotham (02:34:48):
It was Android things,
Leo Laporte (02:34:50):
Things. That's what it was for Android, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Android things.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:34:52):
Yep. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:34:53):
And now the little Nest hub is getting a fusia. You can't tell the difference, right? No,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:35:00):
No. I mean, I'm looking at array now and nothing changed. You can't even tell, which is great. Yeah. That's what people want to see.
Leo Laporte (02:35:05):
Yeah. <laugh> an upgrade that does nothing. The May security patches live now on Android 13. You can download a pixel o t a image now. I don't think that's a good idea. I think if you have a pixel phone, just wait. Maybe check your updates. Once in a while, in the next few days you should be able to get the security patch. And finally, YouTube music officially launches podcasts on Android, iOS, and the web. You might ask why Google already has a podcast app. Well, it's a terrible app. That's why <laugh> very
Ant Pruitt (02:35:36):
Bad. <Laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:35:37):
It's a terrible, no good, very bad app. So now they're gonna roll it out to YouTube music users. Which in a way I'm disappointed cuz every music app I have now, intermixes Intermingles podcast with music that drives me crazy cuz I, you know, I want my music and my music, but Amazon doesn't. Do you have a favorite
Ant Pruitt (02:35:54):
Podcaster? Is it not segregated for you? I mean, I just, another example with Spotify, I, I know they, I know that I have podcasts as an option on Spotify, but every time I open it, it opens up to the music, which is what I want. And even when I sit down at the desk, it opens up to the music, which is what I want. Mm-Hmm. It doesn't really throw or shove podcast in my face. Is it doing that for you?
Leo Laporte (02:36:19):
Yeah. well, I'll give you, let me see if I can find as an example. Amazon music will show me. Oh, music podcasts. It's all on the same interface. Oh, okay. So in fact, here's the very first page is podcasts. Oh. And then, you know, let's, so it does have a music tab and a podcast tab. I just, I think a music app should be music. Not Yeah, not podcasts. Right.
Ant Pruitt (02:36:48):
Oh, well I do see a little bubble at the top podcast and shows. Yeah. But everything on my main page is all music. Everything else is the, the big, the big visible th things on there. The, the big thumbnails are all music. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:37:02):
This is, yeah. I'm looking at YouTube music. It's all music here. And now we just have a podcast tab, which is, that's fine. It's better than the podcast. The Google podcast app. The problem is, you know, they're, it's really gonna be stuff they recommend, right? Yeah. And of course. Yeah. Which not, which is never gonna be our shows. Because why cuz Well, we're not mainstream, I guess. I don't know. Let's see if we show up in Science and technology. No, no. Real Python. The Real Python podcast shows up before This Week in Google. Don't you think that people YouTube music would want to hear This Week in Google over Ken's Neighbors podcast? Oh, there's security now. Is there security now? Eh, this is why we got one ratings. We got one in
Ant Pruitt (02:37:49):
In your podcast app folks.
Leo Laporte (02:37:51):
Yeah. Rate, right? Well maybe we're under something different. Comedy <laugh>. No, not under Comedy <laugh>. Yeah. These are all just society and culture. I think that's us. Yeah. These are all hit and miss. It is just gun gripes episode. Okay, good. I'm glad Gun Gripes is is better than us. Yeah, I don't think we're religion and spirituality. That's where we're, there you go. Health and wellness. Arts and fiction. Music. You know, the number one podcast? Don't, don't you have to tag your Steve Harvey on. Oh, this is, no, no. This is the one you recommended. Yeah, it's listening. It says keep listening. So that's because I was listening to, so is it
Ant Pruitt (02:38:32):
Linked to your
Leo Laporte (02:38:33):
Youtube? Yes. Yeah. And there by the way, is Windows Weekly? Yeah. That's because these are I guess, recommended. And there's TWI from Sunday. These are based on my history. Yeah. Anyway, there you go. Af following the February announcement in March, testing podcasts have rolled out to YouTube music users. And I think you can search for podcast and YouTube Music will be available on demand offline and in the background for all listeners. Whether you have a YouTube premium subscription and includes casting and seamlessly switching between audio versions and video versions, which is good to support video versions. And that's the Google change log. A little plug here for our club. If you're not already a member, ain't, you've been putting together more events. Thank you. Trying to look at this Six events coming up, including it's gonna be kind of fun inside Twitter. After hours, you've invited everybody to join the Club Twit stage. Everybody, the entire staff is gonna get drunk with an on Friday, July 14th, 5:00 PM Yep.
Ant Pruitt (02:39:43):
We're gonna just sit at the round table and it,
Leo Laporte (02:39:45):
It's not gonna be pretty, it's gonna be awesome. <Laugh> can't wait. Alex Wilhelms coming up on the 11th Home Theater Geeks. This is one of the things, you know, it's funny. When we first started Club Tour we thought, oh, it's all about the ad free versions of the shows ad free and tracker free. And indeed, you do get that for your $7 a month. But it turns out, the Club Twit Discord is also a great place to hang and to chat. Yep. To do things. It's really a community. I love it. It really turned me onto the, the possibilities of Discord. Really fantastic. Everything from barbecue to pets. Don't barbecue your pets though. Travel <laugh>. That's there. We don't have a section for that book club. Of course. Stacey's book Club is a regular on this hands on Windows, hands on Macintosh, the Antenna Linux show at Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geek.
(02:40:34):
Some of the shows that we start in club twit get launched out into space like this weekend space now in the public, because club members supported the show in the early days when it was too small to get ads. And so that's kind of the idea behind the club, is you give us seven bucks a month, we give you a ton of content, add free content and it helps us keep the lights on, keep the staff happy, and develop new shows. We really appreciate it. Thank you to all our club members. And if you're not twit tv slash club twit for Mr. Prutz. Thank you. Seal of approval. Now. That's, thank you. <Laugh>. <laugh>. Now that's legit. Stacy, you got a thing for us?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:41:16):
Ooh, I do. Where'd it go? Oh, sorry. I, I had to clean up my my office here. It's,
Leo Laporte (02:41:24):
She's got a very bright light over there. What is that light that's so bright? It's,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:41:29):
It's my, it's my sun coming from a tiny window and can't
Leo Laporte (02:41:32):
Oh, I was gonna say, is that it looks like sunlight. It's a star out there. Yeah. So you have a little Yeah, it is a star. It's our nearest star going through Stacy's magic box of things. Yeah, I know. She opened it up and all of a sudden, my God, it's bright. And this is when Mr. Victor puts the graphic up in the, she can't find her thing <laugh>. She needs, she needs iott to push a button to have it go off and play. Oh, there it is. What is, okay, lemme go. Is this a, here's what
Stacey Higginbotham (02:41:58):
You're working from here.
Leo Laporte (02:41:59):
Oh, wow. Okay. It's a pile. That's,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:42:02):
That's the small pile. Here's
Leo Laporte (02:42:03):
Iot. Current pile. Yeah. Okay.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:42:06):
Son of a, so this is a lot. This is, I reviewed this actually this week. This is the Unna bell. This is an N B I O T doorbell in it's not a doorbell. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have called it that, but it looks like a doorbell. When you press this, it sends a little notification. It does short presses, long presses, and then you can also attach certain sensors to it. I have a temperature probe attached to it. And this device is,
Leo Laporte (02:42:38):
Okay, so you press the button and then what happens?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:42:42):
Well, so it sends a message. So this isn't for you or I, this is for enterprises or small businesses who want to create to basically like, so you really can do anything that you want, like an LTE button to run. So like, did you find our service helpful? Was our receptionist nice. Press the button if
Leo Laporte (02:43:02):
Yes. Oh, leave that there. Oh yeah. They see, I see that all the time in the bathrooms and stuff. They have the happy faces smiling. Was
Stacey Higginbotham (02:43:09):
It the happy or not? Yeah, I, I did a profile in that company. They're, they're, oh, several years ago. They're very cool. Okay. I can tell you a lot about their connectivity options and choices. <Laugh>,
Leo Laporte (02:43:19):
<Laugh>.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:43:22):
But, so you could use it like this. This could be used for cold chain monitoring with an attached temperature sensor. There's also a magnet sensor if you wanna attach it, I don't know for magnets, but
Leo Laporte (02:43:35):
What, so the button turns it on or triggers it or?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:43:38):
No, the buttons triggers a signal and you program what you want. That, in my case, they set it, they set it up for me to be a refrigerator monitor. So basically I put this in my fridge and anytime the temperature exceeds, I think it's like 42 degrees Fahrenheit it will send me a notification and if I press this button, it will send me an email that says, remember to get milk <laugh>. So that's what we programmed it to do for me. <Laugh>. Again, this, so don't think of the use case. The use case in this case is silly, but if you are a business and you want someone to like, Hey, press this button if the bathroom needs more toilet paper, right? Yep. Press this button. If there's no inventory and you're the stock, boy, you know, if you're in your studio, maybe it's press this button. If we need to replace the batteries and something, oh, I
Leo Laporte (02:44:27):
Don't know. I, this is what President Trump had on his desk in the White House. Bring a Diet Coke,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:44:32):
Press this button for a Coke <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (02:44:34):
I could do that for Aro Waffle. I need a strop waffle button. I press this button. There you go. And John brings me a stroop waffle.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:44:42):
Or I could actually press this button if, as long as I was traveling with it anywhere in the world and it was hooked up on the other end. Yeah. And you can tie this into M Q T T. You can tie this into if Zapier or Zeppy, or Zer, however you say it webhooks. Oh, it could be my punch Leo button. We did.
Leo Laporte (02:44:58):
We do you know what, this is the dash button in a way, right? This is, remember Amazon's dash button? Yeah. I thought he was gonna bring you a waffle. No, I wish I got all my hopes up. But this is actually, so this is our battery case. And when you use the last battery, you're supposed to press the dash button. Does that still work, John? No. Yeah. Amazon. Amazon deprecated these. Yeah, cuz I have, it's funny, I was in my pantry the other day moving stuff around and I found one that's labeled Charmin <laugh> <laugh>. So I didn't press it, but I mean, you know, that's the idea. You could put this in bathrooms and say, you know, they're at a toilet paper. Yeah.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:45:33):
Or you could use it as like a, a tracking system for a company. Vehicles, you stick it in a vehicle and when someone presses it, now that you, you won't know who it is, but you know that that particular vehicle is now in operation, you know
Leo Laporte (02:45:45):
It's a little expensive for that single function. It's 60 bucks. Yeah. Well,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:45:50):
Yeah, that's why, I mean, and you have other options and 60 bucks. That's connectivity costs for L T E M. Oh.
Leo Laporte (02:45:56):
So that's pretty big. Okay. That's huge. So that has ltt that has LTE built into it. And his phone's home.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:46:03):
This, I didn't put this anywhere in
Leo Laporte (02:46:04):
Press. That's huge. Your monthly charge for it.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:46:07):
No, that's the 68, 50 $9 for a year of the button working and access to the cloud software, which lets you program your use
Leo Laporte (02:46:15):
Cases. Can you pay for more after the year? Yes. Okay. <Laugh>. Okay. <Laugh>.
Jeff Jarvis (02:46:20):
Or you could just buy a lot of Charmin so you don't have to have the button.
Leo Laporte (02:46:22):
Yeah, right. No, that's cool. I can't, I didn't understand. This has LTE e in it, so it's standalone. You could use it out in the field. You could use it anywhere. Yes.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:46:30):
That's what, that's what I said. My punch LEO button could go with me wherever I go.
Leo Laporte (02:46:34):
That's not a good idea. <Laugh> not a good idea. Cool. This is Uniz, U N A B I Z. It's really not a consumer device. The it
Stacey Higginbotham (02:46:43):
Is not, but you know, enough of our audience or people who might be like,
Leo Laporte (02:46:47):
Yeah, no, that's really,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:46:48):
If you work in it, this could be, so in the software I did, I reviewed this backend software and that sort of thing. So
Leo Laporte (02:46:54):
You could put it in the server room. I got locked in. Press the button. Yeah. Locked in. You would.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:47:00):
Now I've got mindset from battery saving purposes. Mine only reports back every, I think it's like five or six minutes. So if you got locked in like the server closet, you would be there for a few minutes before someone got a notification email. Right. Just so you know. Right. <laugh>. Or you'd have to set it so the batteries would go faster.
Jeff Jarvis (02:47:20):
All right. Makes sense.
Leo Laporte (02:47:23):
Thanks. Thank you. So that's Stacey. Hi Bathum. Stacy on i.com. If you wanna read more about Unbel. Did they say Unbel or Unbel?
Stacey Higginbotham (02:47:34):
It's Unna Biz.
Leo Laporte (02:47:35):
Unbel Unbel. So the Unna
Stacey Higginbotham (02:47:37):
Bell, I
Leo Laporte (02:47:37):
Don't know. I like it. Unbe. It's a,
Stacey Higginbotham (02:47:39):
It's a company in Singapore, so,
Leo Laporte (02:47:42):
Okay. Who knows <laugh>. Mr. Jeff Jarvis. Do you have a number for us? I
Jeff Jarvis (02:47:47):
Do. I do. I do. First all, just for a moment. I, I, I found us amusing that Apple's unionized store is seeking tips.
Leo Laporte (02:47:55):
<Laugh>. Wow. I
Jeff Jarvis (02:47:57):
Just bought this $1,500 computer. I 100.
Leo Laporte (02:48:00):
I am not given the genius a tip. No. Nope. No.
Jeff Jarvis (02:48:03):
They were tips. No, not gonna do it. But on a more fun note here, if you go to Line one 20, Ryan Cordell, who's a professor at University of Illinois, I had his students do rethought books. He had a whole bunch of really neat projects that he showed off. But this one I quite loved. It's from a student named Kelly Custer. Should
Leo Laporte (02:48:22):
I scroll up? This is what they're top What should I do
Jeff Jarvis (02:48:24):
Ago? Do you <laugh>? I'll have to explain it to you to explain what then go back to where it was and I'll explain it to you. Scroll down.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:48:35):
You were just too much today.
Jeff Jarvis (02:48:36):
Good. Down. No, the other way. That's up. Scroll down, <laugh>. Now you're not gonna understand what you're doing. Go back. Use the back button. Use it to G air stop. <Laugh>, stop. That folks is a type case, right?
Leo Laporte (02:48:53):
Ah, yes. And little
Jeff Jarvis (02:48:54):
Tiny pieces of type, which I have here in my finger like this. 18 all the time was set. Okay. And the world was set this way until until letter attack. Right. To go back to the screen.
Leo Laporte (02:49:03):
Is this Alpha Medical? No, it's, these are let, like No, it's in the, they're dip thongs of things, right?
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:09):
Yeah. No, no, they really got, but like e is the biggest box usually. Right? This is a weird box. This is not a normal box. Okay. Okay. Go, go down. And so then the student did it, so she tracked where the hand would have to go across the case.
Leo Laporte (02:49:23):
Oh, that's cool.
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:24):
Do these various, so if
Leo Laporte (02:49:26):
You're gonna do Hello world, your hand and go boop, deep deep, deep boo boo.
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:30):
Right? You put it back into the, into the, into the, into
Leo Laporte (02:49:33):
The, oh, that's really interesting. Right? Yeah.
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:36):
So then you see why
Leo Laporte (02:49:37):
Those are very, why is something as short as all as truth? Oh. Cause
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:41):
That's the poem. Oh,
Leo Laporte (02:49:42):
It's the whole poem. And poem
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:44):
Says that right above. So if you're setting the whole poem,
Leo Laporte (02:49:47):
Let's break. It's not just the dining scroll. Okay. No.
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:50):
Well, the first one, hello World
Leo Laporte (02:49:51):
Is Now I can now
Jeff Jarvis (02:49:52):
You can try it now. You can try it. Leo.
Leo Laporte (02:49:54):
Now is the time for all good tutors to come to the aid of I can't type of their country. Okay. Submit. And it's gonna show me. Oh, look,
Jeff Jarvis (02:50:17):
It's kind of meaningless, but it's really kind of delightful to see that. That's what
Leo Laporte (02:50:20):
Interesting. Yeah. You have
Jeff Jarvis (02:50:21):
To set that one line. So
Leo Laporte (02:50:22):
The pressman, the pressman would be,
Jeff Jarvis (02:50:24):
Oh, the pressman. No, the, the typographer.
Leo Laporte (02:50:26):
Typographer would be doing that. That work. Wow. One
Jeff Jarvis (02:50:30):
Of the, one of the great things that when I do finally write my Linotype book is that there were at the end of the hand type setting era. I can see Stacy's really excited by this. <Laugh>. There were speed type setting contests with audiences and cheering crowds. Wow. You see how fast this was before television, right? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. <Laugh>. They were
Leo Laporte (02:50:56):
Before <laugh>, before en entertaining.
Jeff Jarvis (02:51:01):
Oh,
Leo Laporte (02:51:01):
Yes. It was kind of, kind of kinda like this Domino's guy making three pizzas in 39 seconds. It was kinda like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Look at that. Oof. Man. It's good. This
Jeff Jarvis (02:51:13):
Is Domino's Pizzas taste just like that much love and carrot
Leo Laporte (02:51:16):
Please. <Laugh> punch. Only dominoes by the way, you lose points if the, if the pepperoni overlaps. It's not supposed to be <laugh>. Yeah. Wow. Look at that. Jeez. You know, now I know why they think they could make a machine that could make pizza's at mess. He's making, he's making a mess. Dominoes. But 39 seconds, three pizzas. There you go. And that the hourly wage of $7 and 50 cents. That's, that's a pretty good deal. You give
Jeff Jarvis (02:51:47):
Him a tip not to
Leo Laporte (02:51:48):
Who?
Jeff Jarvis (02:51:50):
Apple store.
Leo Laporte (02:51:51):
That's, I like that site. You know what I, it makes me think though, is I'd love to write the code. Maybe, you know, I think it's only a matter of time before this makes its way into the oven of code problem. Write the code to draw these images become That's what she did. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's instant. You don't have to actually do it. You know, it, it'll figure it out. Right. Yeah. Right. Very neat. Mr An, do you have a pick or a thing?
Ant Pruitt (02:52:21):
Yeah. First I wanna say shout out again to Mr. Terrill Seawood. Thanks for watching and hope you're doing okay, sir. My first pick is, I call it like the black communities version of succession. Ooh. it's, it's called Riches on Amazon. And let me be up front. I started watching this and Kylo was quite excited back there. For some reason. I started watching this and I was like, oh gosh, this is like a soap opera. And I got to the second episode and I'm like, okay, this might be all right. And I don't know all of the actors' names because they're British. Recognize
Leo Laporte (02:52:57):
They're British. Right.
Ant Pruitt (02:52:58):
They're all, it's all British. And, okay. One of the ladies in there is the psychiatrist from Ted Lasso. Oh. And she's playing a whole different role in this. Yeah. But it's so dcom fascinating and it made me think about succession just the type of story that's going on in there.
Leo Laporte (02:53:15):
There is a great, I I will, I will match this with another British show called Industry. I
Ant Pruitt (02:53:22):
Can't remember. Industry.
Leo Laporte (02:53:23):
Yeah. I think Salt.
Ant Pruitt (02:53:24):
I see. It seems like I've seen that
Leo Laporte (02:53:25):
It's on h
Ant Pruitt (02:53:27):
Recommend it to me.
Leo Laporte (02:53:28):
Yeah. It, it's, you know what's interesting is the lives of black people in Britain are very different, aren't they? And it's yes. So no. Yeah. <laugh>. All
Ant Pruitt (02:53:37):
Right. The pins.
Leo Laporte (02:53:39):
I, I really, they they have accents. <Laugh>. Yeah. <Laugh>. I like this show. The star of it is a black woman who is from America, who kind of fakes her way into high finance in the city of London. And yeah, that
Ant Pruitt (02:53:53):
Was a, that was like the slug line. Fake it till you make it or something. You do.
Leo Laporte (02:53:56):
Yeah. It's quite, it's, it's really good. I'm gonna watch. I'll make it deal. I'll give it a shot. You watch industry. I'll watch Rich's.
Ant Pruitt (02:54:02):
Okay. I'll give that a try. Sounds good. Cause I've seen that pop up on my screen. It's quite a recommendation. I I wish there were more. I wish there were more episodes. There's only a couple of seasons, I think. We really fell in love with it.
(02:54:14):
Nice. And then lastly, I, I just want to give pay homage to the, I I decided to call him the Michael Jordan of YouTube. <Laugh>. M K B H D Marquez Brownlee. He just announced some shoes and I wanted to give a shout out to the folks at Adam for allowing hard hit to be a part of. This is this brand new shoe. Shoe.
Leo Laporte (02:54:36):
He's a shoe model now.
Ant Pruitt (02:54:37):
Wow. He's, you know, Adams has been paying them to, to show off their shoes. And these shoes Awesome. Are limited editions from Mkb h d and we got 'em, you know, last week or so or what have you. Hardhead was quite excited. He, he has his own
Leo Laporte (02:54:54):
Shoe brand. Marcus Brownley. It has his own shoe. Has his own shoe. I was approached by some people to do my own brand of compression socks. I do that. Yeah. <laugh> do it. <Laugh>, if you'll wear with open to Sandals. Leo Laport brand compression socks. Yeah. no, this is cool. Hardhead gets to be a model. That's so cool. That's amazing.
Ant Pruitt (02:55:17):
Hardhead. I'm, I'm been quite happy with it. And you know, he's, he's posed in some of another pair of their shoes before we got another box that we're supposed to.
Leo Laporte (02:55:27):
You said these are really comfortable soon,
Ant Pruitt (02:55:29):
Really comfortable. And those shoes right there man,
Leo Laporte (02:55:33):
Dude. And it's Mark is this Mark, he gave me a picture. What makes this an mkb HD design. Is he, do he design these, or,
Ant Pruitt (02:55:41):
Yes. He worked with them for a little over a year or so. Wow. Putting that shoe together and doing prototypes. And their model 2 51 people might not, is based on his very first YouTube video was two minutes and 51
Leo Laporte (02:55:54):
Seconds. Oh, that's cool. People may not know Marquez besides being a star. Youtuber and a tech reviewer is an athlete. And and so it makes sense. Really. Oh gosh. He is super talented at what's the Frisbee game? He plays
Ant Pruitt (02:56:09):
Ultimate Frisbee.
Leo Laporte (02:56:10):
It's ultimate. Okay. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> super. I mean, when you see the game, it's hard to imagine him being on a sports team at Stevens <laugh>, which is a geek school. Yeah. Yeah. But he plays, I think he just play, like, he plays like big time. He plays semi,
Ant Pruitt (02:56:23):
He plays semi
Leo Laporte (02:56:23):
Semi-Pro. Semi-Pro. Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Wow.
Ant Pruitt (02:56:26):
He's legit.
Leo Laporte (02:56:27):
So this is an athlete as, and a YouTuber designing sneakers, which is, is very
Ant Pruitt (02:56:33):
Cool. And they feel Dagum good. I, I, I was quite impressed. I didn't know what to expect. But they're nice. And like I said, hardhead, he loves 'em. So when the bot got here, he was ready to, all right, we need to go shoot. It's like <laugh>. I was like, okay, dude, calm down. But I appreciate Adam's allowing him to be a part of that.
Leo Laporte (02:56:53):
Here's the Marquez Brownley highlight reel playing Ultimate, which is kinda like football with a Frisbee, right?
Ant Pruitt (02:57:02):
I don't know that game, but there's
Leo Laporte (02:57:04):
Frisbee. There's Mar, there's Marquez. Yeah.
Ant Pruitt (02:57:06):
Seems like, and look at
Leo Laporte (02:57:07):
Rugby to me. A perfect touchdown pass. Boom. Yeah.
Ant Pruitt (02:57:10):
You need to watch him catch
Leo Laporte (02:57:12):
He can. It's a lot of work. He has a, he gets way high up in the air. Let's see if he, there's a catch here. Oh, nice Block by the Brownley.
Ant Pruitt (02:57:21):
Look at that. He's
Leo Laporte (02:57:22):
Good. He's a real athlete. So you know, are these, would you say athletic shoes or dress shoes? These two
Ant Pruitt (02:57:27):
50. No, they're, I'm not gonna call 'em athletic shoes. They're definitely like for style and, and comfort walking around. Yeah. I don't know if I wanna play basketball in them, but they definitely have support. Like they could. But I'd rather just show him off and wear 'em nice day to day. And I think he even said that in his video, cuz apparently people give him crap for his sneakers in his videos. Cuz he's, he kneels down to point to some tech and it puts creases into sneakers. And he's like, look, I made these shoes for y'all to wear 'em. So don't just put 'em on a shelf. Buy 'em and wear 'em. I don't, they should get creased, you know. Good. I like that. Good.
Leo Laporte (02:58:05):
Yeah. Although you could tell Hardhead has not creased these <laugh>
Ant Pruitt (02:58:09):
Not yet. Maybe you had 'em on the day. Warm wore 'em to school today. Pretty,
Leo Laporte (02:58:13):
Pretty pristine. Very nice. Cool. An underscore Pruitt on the Insta, if you wanna see that video. Yes, sir. And soon to be on Bluesky. Now Lisa's yelling at me saying we should have given that invite to one of our staffers. Stacey Counts <laugh>. Stacey Counts. She's in the fam. Lisa.
Stacey Higginbotham (02:58:33):
Lisa,
Leo Laporte (02:58:33):
She's in the fam. Come. We'll get more. And, and you know what aunt I will get We'll, we'll get you, I promise you we'll get you an invite somehow. We'll have an
Ant Pruitt (02:58:42):
Invite. It's okay. I'm my social media flow. Is this it
Leo Laporte (02:58:49):
Pretty high? And I will tell, tell
Stacey Higginbotham (02:58:50):
Lisa we need women on the
Leo Laporte (02:58:52):
App. There you go. That's what we need. That's right. And, and just for you, I'm gonna give you a pair of Leo LaPorte signature compression socks. Just play in argument.
Ant Pruitt (02:59:01):
Hey, I'm on forum. I actually have several pairs of 'em and they're quite comfortable. So Yes, please. And thank you coming, coming
Jeff Jarvis (02:59:06):
Sooner. The Leo LaPorte adult diapers.
Leo Laporte (02:59:10):
Yeah. And trusses. Don't forget, I've got a whole line of trusses. I'm gonna you're gonna love those. Thank you. Aunt Pruitt. Hands on photography, twit tv slash hop, hop, toit. Oh man. And of course you'll catch aunt in our twit community everywhere. He's on the Mastodon, he's on the forums@twit.community. He's on the mast@twit.social. He's on the Discord. If you're in the club, he's everywhere. Yeah. Thank you aunt. Always a pleasure to Of course. Thank you. Every week right here on This Week in Google,
Ant Pruitt (02:59:38):
Make sure y'all check out the show this week. Hands on Photography, where we take a look at it. Again, the free tool and DaVinci Resolve that's can let you do some really cool video effects for all for free. Just so I'm cool. And also if you guys have any questions and comments, you can just send those in to us via the Asta Tech Guy show that you, Mr. Laporte host each and every Sunday. So send us questions for that too.
Leo Laporte (03:00:07):
An Dan Stark on the Bluesky as an invite for you. How should I have him send it to you and at twit tv <laugh> send it to the hop address hoppi twit tv.
(03:00:19):
Okay. I am gonna tell him right now. See, see,
Jeff Jarvis (03:00:25):
I expect to be following you in the hour.
Ant Pruitt (03:00:26):
Thank you Mr. Stark.
Leo Laporte (03:00:29):
There you go. I have an thank you
Stacey Higginbotham (03:00:31):
Mr. Stark. Now I feel less guilty. Yeah.
Ant Pruitt (03:00:33):
This was
Leo Laporte (03:00:34):
Helpful for all I knew all of us. Yes. I knew Mr.
Jeff Jarvis (03:00:35):
Stark had to take it away from his poor aunt to give it to aunt, but it's
Leo Laporte (03:00:40):
Okay. By the way, Dan says, steep learning curve is hard to learn. In fact, that seems to be the general Bluesky consensus. <Laugh>. So I bow down to your greater put it
Ant Pruitt (03:00:53):
On wisdom. Put it on Mastodon. Put it on Twit. That social. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (03:00:56):
Let's see what Mastodon says. Those people are actually smart. <Laugh>. Jeff Jarvis is the director. You gotta go. The Town Night Center for Entrepreneurial Journalism at the Craig Newmark.
Narrator (03:01:08):
Greg Greg
Leo Laporte (03:01:10):
Newmark, who is also, by the way, on Bluesky Graduate School of Journalism at the city of University of New York. His new book, the Gutenberg Parenthesis, comes out in June. Gutenberg parenthesis.com to pre-order. He's also@buzzmachine.com. He's on the Bluesky. You could just search for him on Bluesky. It's easy. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Jarvis on Mastodon Social. Thank you Jeff. Thank you. Have a great week. Thank you, Stacy. I apologize for giving you a hard time about your wake up Stacey,
Speaker 7 (03:01:38):
Wake up. Wake up. You're almost there.
Leo Laporte (03:01:40):
You're almost there. <Laugh>. <laugh>. I'm very good. I don't,
Speaker 7 (03:01:44):
Wednesdays are hard. I don't always get to eat and that I was trying to be
Leo Laporte (03:01:48):
Out chill. I'm just, I'm so sorry. Of course. I don't care what you do. I think it's wonderful. I'm glad you sustained yourself during this marathon broadcast. <Laugh> Stacy on I OT is the website. Follow her there. We
Speaker 7 (03:02:02):
Think we are Joe Scarborough
Leo Laporte (03:02:04):
<Laugh>. She's also does a great podcast with Kevin Tofl, the I O T podcast. Thank you Stacy. Thanks to everybody who joined us today. I'm sorry, I apologize in advance. I know the learning curve was steep <laugh>. We do the show every Wednesday, 2:00 PM Pacific, 5:00 PM Eastern, 2100 utc. The livestream at live dot twit tv features, audio and video. If you're watching or listening live you can chat live as well. Get all the senses engaged. The chat room is IRC dot twit tv. You can also chat if you're a club member in our club, twit Discord after the fact. The website has ad supported versions of the show. Twit Do TV slash TWiG. There's also a link there to the YouTube channel. You can see us there. There's also links to various podcast clients so you can subscribe. In fact, subscribing is probably the best thing. That way you'll get it automatically every week as soon as we're done. Thank you everybody for being here. We will see you next time on This Week in Google. Bye-Bye.
Speaker 7 (03:03:10):
It's midweek and you really wanna know even more about the world of technology. So you should check out Tech News Weekly. The show where we talk to and about the people making and breaking the tech news. That's the biggest news. We talk with the people writing the stories that you're probably reading. We also talk between ourselves about the stories that are getting us even more excited about tech News this week. So if you are excited, well then join us. Head to twit tv slash tnw to subscribe.
