This Week in Google 712, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Jason Howell (00:00:00):
Coming up next on This Week in Google, me Jason Howell filling in for Leo Laporte one last time. I promise you he returns next week we've got Jeff Jarvis, Stacey Higginbotham, Ant Pruitt, and a whole host of Google related news at the top of the show. Anyways, we talk about Samsung, possibly at least looking into the idea of bringing Bing chat into its devices. And Google isn't very happy about it. A little panicked about it actually. Also, the Pixel Fold, coming to Google IO almost certainly, we're gonna see the Pixel Fold at Google IO along with a bunch of other hardware. We talk about that. The Substack suffering from a little foot in mouth disease that's coming up. And Drake and the Weekend's smash hit was created with AI and that's why you can't hear it anymore. All that more. Coming up next on This Week in Google

Speaker 2 (00:00:53):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Jason Howell (00:01:04):
This is TWiG This Week in Google. Episode 712 recorded Wednesday, April 19th, 2023 P for Prevaricate. This episode of This Week in Google is brought to you by Cisco Meraki. With employees working in different locations, providing a unified work experience seems as easy as herding cats. How do you reign in so many moving parts? The Meraki Cloud Managed Network. Learn how your organization can make hybrid work, work. Visit And by ACI learning, our military uses some of the most advanced technology in the world, making veterans uniquely qualified for it and cybersecurity positions. To learn more about ACI learning's premium training across audit, IT and cybersecurity readiness visit

It's time for This Week in Google. I'm Jason Howell filling in. One more time. Just one more time for Leo Laporte, who is rounding out his vacation. He's at that point of the vacation where he is like, looking at the calendar, like, oh, really? Do I have to do, I have to stop having this kind of fun. Although I will say at the end of my vacation, all four of us in my family, we were like ready to return. So maybe he's at that point too. Who knows? You can ask him next week when he's back on This Week in Google. But it's great to be back joined, as always by the awesome crew of TWiG starting with you. Stacy Higginbotham, welcome. It's good to see you. Hello. How was your birthday?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:02:43):
We're fun.

Jason Howell (00:02:44):
Yeah, exactly. I know. How was your birthday celebration?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:02:49):
Oh, it was delicious. There was so much food and cake. Very nice. And oh, I'll tell you about 'em. I got, I got the Sonos speakers.

Jason Howell (00:02:58):
Okay. Amazing ones. Little bit of a tease to the future. So you can stay tuned for that. Also, joining us, Ant Pruitt the second person wearing a beanie, it appears on, I'm just following her lead man.

Ant Pruitt (00:03:14):
<Laugh>, whatever Stacey Higginbotham says goes!

Jason Howell (00:03:19):
<Laugh>. I, yeah. Hey, you, you guys make it look good and you're making me wish that I had brought mine to work today. It would, it would be fitting because I've been cold all day, so I probably should have done that. Also, joining us, but not wearing a beanie on his head is Mr. Jeff Jarvis.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:34):
Because I got hair <laugh> Mr. Law.

Jason Howell (00:03:39):
Yeah. You've got some awesome hair. I do have to say

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:42):
It is whenever I, whenever I, I haven't done TV in a long time, but when I did tv, always the makeup people and hair people would say, oh, I love your hair,

Jason Howell (00:03:50):
<Laugh>. We've got, we've got something to work with here. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:54):
Yeah. Waves.

Jason Howell (00:03:57):
Waves. Very nice to see you. See all three of you. And let's see here. You know, once again you know, last week was all about bringing democracy to the show and only using Jeff's links links. This week I opened up the doc and once again, there was just this huge list of things I added to it. So it's supplemented.

Jeff Jarvis (00:04:20):
Yeah, you did. You did. It is. It is. And I just, I just put stuff in for, I'm not saying we should talk about all of 'em by any means, just choices,

Jason Howell (00:04:26):
But, but, but you put in some really great stuff. So we're gonna be talking about it a lot this week. And then Leo will return next week and it will no longer be a democracy

Jeff Jarvis (00:04:33):
All about it. And Yeah, no, he'll,

Jason Howell (00:04:35):
<Laugh>. Should we start talking about this whole Samsung, Bing ChatGPT threat, which we talked a little bit about on All About Android last night. The story is that there was a report, Google got a hold of word that possibly Samsung was looking into the possibility, let's say, of replacing Google search on its Android phones with Bing. And, you know, you can imagine probably a big reason for that is because Bing now has that chat. The, the chat bot functionality

Jeff Jarvis (00:05:13):
Will regret it!

Jason Howell (00:05:15):
But we started talking about this on the show last night and then immediately kind of got pointed to another article from the chat room. This article is from Android Authority that basically says like Samsung couldn't do that, which is a really good point because if you are at least here in the us, you know, Google makes you sign, if you wanna have Google's suite of apps on your Android phone, and that includes Google search, you have to sign the mobile application distribution agreement, which basically says it's all or nothing. Essentially, if you want the Google Play Store, you also have to have Google search. So it's kind of hard to believe that Samsung would sacrifice that in order to do Microsoft Bing search on the device, but it's not entirely impossible.

Ant Pruitt (00:06:02):
Why would it be hard Mr. Howell? Because isn't Samsung the same folks that decided, you know what, we want to de Google our phones about eight, nine years ago and go with, was it Tizen and some other

Jason Howell (00:06:16):
Well, but they're version

Ant Pruitt (00:06:17):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:06:18):
They haven't done it. I mean, their phones aren't running, they're still running Android.

Jason Howell (00:06:24):
Yeah, that's

Ant Pruitt (00:06:25):
True. It's Android, but that's not Google, right? Android is not necessarily Google. Okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:06:30):
That is true.

Jason Howell (00:06:31):
Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about straight up like open source Android, right? You can, you can run open source Android on your device and not re require, not be required to to, you know, make that

Ant Pruitt (00:06:45):
Agreement. What Amazon did with the fire phone, cuz their phone and stuff was not necessarily a Googley phone, it was just open source code. Wait,

Jason Howell (00:06:56):
Wait, wait. Here, here is me. Dramatizing,

Ant Pruitt (00:06:58):
Unboxing a Samsung phone, Bing?

Jason Howell (00:07:03):
<Laugh>. But it's, I can't imagine the customers are gonna be happy Bing with a chat bot. That's magical

Ant Pruitt (00:07:12):

Jason Howell (00:07:12):
No, I I

Stacey Higginbotham (00:07:14):
I feel like Samsung doesn't use like true open source Android, don't

Jason Howell (00:07:18):
They? No Android from Google. They, they, no, they, they, they use Android from Google. That's, that's kind of my point. Okay. And the, the point of the Android authority article is that Samsung of all companies has totally agreed to the MADA, the mobile application distribution agreement, which basically says, you know, if you get a Samsung, you expect the Play Store to be on that device, or at least we do here in the U.S. And I mean, that's just the way it's always been with Samsung. And with most Android phones, most people buying Android phones do have that expectation here in the US especially that there's gonna be the Play store, there's gonna be Google Search, there's gonna be Google Maps, there's gonna be whatever, you know, insert your, you know, any number of Google apps that are installed on almost every Android device in the U.S. Here. And if they decided to go with a different search, they're breaking that agreement. They can't have the full suite of apps. They're no longer allowed to have Google Play Store on there. They're no longer allowed mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to have Google Maps or any, any of them. Basically. It's like all or nothing. That's the difference.

Ant Pruitt (00:08:25):
Yeah, I get that. But I swear I thought they at least toyed with the idea of doing just that several years ago because of, you could side load stuff pretty easily in the Android ecosystem and not necessarily have to go through the Play store if you want to do your own Samsung store or what have you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> developers could still have their apps published there as well. And I'm sure they wouldn't mind having the apps published on Samsung devices because, you know, they're like the number one <laugh> manufacturer of phones in the planet. Right? It's not the iPhone, the Samsung's the number one, right?

Jason Howell (00:09:06):
Yeah. I mean, but it would be, that would be a huge blow if, because when I think of Samsung, I also, you're right, the numbers are huge as far as user base worldwide. Samsung is, I, I believe Samsung's on top. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but I'd say the majority of those users are not users that we would consider power users. <Laugh>. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Side loading, no matter how easy it is, is an extra step. And it's, and it's actually kind of not super easy to understand when it's your first time side loading an app, you know, it makes sense to us. Yeah. But I think to the average person, like when I think of my, my mom having mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I mean, she has an iPhone, but you know, if she was on Android, she'd probably have a Samsung phone. And if I think of her, you know, based on what you're saying, like, oh, but side loading's pretty easy. If she wanted Google Maps, like I could never imagine a million years my mom actually deciding like I'm, you know, I'm gonna side load Google Maps, <laugh> onto it. I just could. She'd be calling me to do that. And that's, you know, that's, that's step too far, I think. Yeah. That's my point.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:17):
Okay, so here's some, some history if y'all want it. Yes. Apparently love history all the way back in 2010, Samsung tried to replace Android by launching its own mobile OS called Bada.

Jason Howell (00:10:30):
Bada. That's right.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:31):
Ing all

Ant Pruitt (00:10:32):
Right. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. That's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:33):
Said about 2012 years ago. Tried again with Tizen, so there's Tyson mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Okay. And then in response, Google bought Motorola.

Ant Pruitt (00:10:43):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:10:43):
Yeah. They were like, I remember that. Yeah, we're gonna buy, we're gonna make our phones, we'll protect it. Yeah. And then in 2014, they sold Motorola cuz they apparently felt like they didn't need it anymore. Yeah. apparently in 2017, the launch of Bixby, which went, is Bixby even still on the phone as on my phone? Okay. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:11:05):
I've just, yeah, Bixby is still around, still kicking.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:11:08):
So that was, that was kind of threatening. But they also have partnerships not just on the mobile phone. The tensor chip set in the Google Pixel phones is made by Samsung's Foundry operations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. They also are, they have a pretty tight partnerships with smart things and Google Home. And so yeah. That's the history there, if that helps.

Jason Howell (00:11:33):
It did internet,

Ant Pruitt (00:11:34):
It did help.

Jason Howell (00:11:35):
It, it certainly shows that, I think along the way Samsung would love, you know, many, many times would love to have autonomy and kind of control the entire thing, which makes sense about Samsung. They're very much, you know, all about their ecosystem. So even within the world, Android, they still have their devices playing nicer with their other devices than they do with any

Ant Pruitt (00:11:58):
Devices. Right. As big as they are, as big as they are, it makes sense for them to consider, you know what, why not just do our own thing, you know, because it's not just mobile phones with, with them it's the televisions, it's the bag on refrigerators that I refused

Jeff Jarvis (00:12:12):
To buy. Yeah. But they've never done a good job with that stuff. Right. People complain about what some adds to the phone. Basically it's like GM getting rid

Ant Pruitt (00:12:20):
Of Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (00:12:21):
Of the, the, the two major operating systems on their car. I, I've never, I'm not buying a GM car without being able to do his Android or Apple.

Ant Pruitt (00:12:28):
Yeah. You know,

Jeff Jarvis (00:12:29):
They're bad at

Ant Pruitt (00:12:29):
It. Two Samsung's credit, cuz I was one of those people for many years that said, you know what, this is the reason I don't have a Samsung phone because there's too much crap wear on top of the Android mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and I just wanna get to the Android. I was one of those folks. But to their credit, this last several iterations here of, of, I guess you can go all the way back to maybe the S 20 or the model right before that, the got a lot cleaner. Oh.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:12:55):
That actually was, so the article I'm referencing is from make use of they actually talk about the reason that happened is because Google was pushing so hard on Samsung to stop doing it.

Ant Pruitt (00:13:06):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:07):
So that was part of their, their frustrations with each other and why Samsung was like, no, no, I'll build my own. Darn it. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (00:13:14):
Hmm. You know, cause Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:17):
No, I was just gonna say, which is so anti-consumer

Ant Pruitt (00:13:20):
Man, you know, queen Pruit she started out as a Samsung user a gazillion years ago. And then when the pixel lines started coming out, she, she got into the Pixel world and, and just like me, just lights clean Android. And I don't remember which Samsung model came out that she wanted to try. It was, it was a note line. So it's somewhere one of the last time there was a note, she tried the note and it drove her nuts because the os was just so cluttered with stuff. And she's, she's like, I used to love the stylists and love navigating through, but this is just, eh, it's too, it's too busy. I believe that's the word she said. It's just too busy. She was used to the vanilla Android and now fast forward to I guess 2021, she got a s whatever it is, this latest Samsung. And she's, she's back on Samsung now. She doesn't have a pixel and she's totally fine. You don't have, you don't hear her fussing about it's being too busy or just too much stuff going on. She's back in that ecosystem that she used to love and it's cleaner now. So I mean, it, it, I gotta give 'em credit for that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I still don't want 'em. But they've

Jason Howell (00:14:29):
Definitely improved that, in my opinion, in my experience. They've definitely improved that in the last handful of years. Cause I was full fully for forever on board with this. This idea that Samsung, you know, they clutter their devices with too many features. They go out of their way to make sure you know about every single little feature. And it gets really annoying. Yeah. At least in the beginning of, of setting up a phone. Lots of clutter.

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:53):

Ant Pruitt (00:14:53):
All of the bubbly sounds and the, the little click everything get tapped on. It sounded like bubbles bursting and

Jeff Jarvis (00:14:59):
<Laugh>. And it's like, gosh, just

Ant Pruitt (00:15:00):
Stop all this cute stuff.

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:02):
It's a

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:02):
Phone. I'm not a 13 year old girl.

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:04):

Jason Howell (00:15:06):
Somebody likes it, but it isn't me. They have improved a lot of that stuff. And I, I give Samsung full credit, I just have a really hard time. Like I have a hard time seeing Samsung turn away from what is arguably the backbone of its success in my opinion. I mean, yeah, Samsung does a lot of things right on their own, but at the core of it is, is Android and is the Google experience of Android. If Samsung, you know, required you to install apps that run on every Android platform, but you've gotta get 'em over here now instead of over here. I just don't think it would be as successful as it is right now. But maybe

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:51):
Could be negotiation. It may just be negotiation. Yeah. Just be saying we could go to Beijing.

Jason Howell (00:15:55):

Jeff Jarvis (00:15:56):
Right. But, you know, I also think the, this prediction will come back to haunt me, but I think that there's gonna be a huge not buyer's remorse, but installer's remorse on chat, g PT in search. I think it's gonna, the media's gonna be so on top of, of every single thing it does wrong, lively people are making mistakes. It's not gonna deliver a good experience. It's gonna be wrong cuz it's not meant to do this at all. And Google, I think the mistake Google is making is not saying we're the cautious ones. We're gonna do it. Right. Oh, Microsoft's rushing in cuz they're so desperate. And I'm, I'm, I'm kind of surprised that Google isn't doing that. And they're saying, okay, okay, we'll run into a

Jason Howell (00:16:38):
Rush. Yeah. They're kind of doing the opposite of that.

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:41):
Yeah, they are. And they're

Jason Howell (00:16:42):
Like, oh, we don't wanna be left behind. This is the first real major threat that we've put that we've faced, you know, in decades.

Jeff Jarvis (00:16:48):
Not, I don't think, I don't think it is. Everybody's screaming. I I just saw a piece of the Washington Post just now. Che will mean the languages will disappear. No, it could actually mean the opposite. There's their, everybody's trying to find their profound experience. You know, Elon Musk will destroy humanity down to, it'll destroy Google's business. I don't, I think it's cool to start off with, but I don't think it's gonna be a game changer for these companies for quite a while. Am I crazy?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:17:18):
You know I saw an article yesterday maybe in Nature and it was, AI search engines are exploding in number, are they any good? And I thought it was gonna be a, an academic study. I was kind of impressed that they pulled it out so quickly. <Laugh>. But it's not, it's an article. It was clicky it was clicky. It was, it was not that kind. That was not that part of nature. And so, but it is a researcher who's evaluating large language models. Oh, it's someone from Hugging Face is

Jason Howell (00:17:50):
Margaret mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, stable Diffusion. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:17:52):
Stable diffusion. So it, the, the gist of it was like, eh, they're not there yet. And they're also, when they're wrong, they're not, they're wrong in ways that it's hard for people to understand or recognize, so they're really a problem. So that was kind of the gist of this article, but I was very disappointed that it wasn't more sciencey. So I couldn't say 30% of them have room for improvement.

Jason Howell (00:18:18):
<Laugh>. I mean, we're at the beginning of, of you know, this at least this modern infusion or attempt to infuse what we think of as search and have reinforced for decades with this kind of more conversational kind of do everything view that we apparently have about chatbots. Just yesterday for all about Android, there were, there were a couple of of, of new phones released, you know, a Shami phone and Aus phone and everything. And so I was kind of prepping it for the doc and getting it ready to, to put in the show. And it came down to the part where when I'm like creating my notes and everything for the show, I had to like start pulling specs and stuff. And in that moment I was just like, shoot me. Like, this is the last thing I wanna do is like, you know, transcribe specs for yet another phone.

I've done it so many times. And then I thought, yeah, wait a minute. Yeah, <laugh>, I could, I could open up Bing chatbot and, and see what it does as far as transcribing the specs cuz I don't want to do it. And I did it Uhhuh and it did it great. I checked the data, the data was accurate and I was like, God, I kind of feel dirty for having done that. But I mean, it did the same thing I was gonna do. You know, I still bring my own context to the show, so it's not like I'm just reading a robot. But but yeah, so I think that was just a, a really interesting experience to me. It's like I am using search in that capacity to do something useful in a way that I haven't before. And yeah. I, if that's the direction that search is headed, like I'm, I'm interested in that. That's, that's compelling to me.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:59):
I think we're gonna have to have better programs for our interns cuz a lot of things. Yeah. Like you would have an intern do. Yes.

Jason Howell (00:20:08):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:09):
That's not a bad thing. I'm just like, oh yeah, cuz like I was talking to my child who has a job dealing with data and doing things like thank you notes and like, just real scut work for like psychotherapy practice and like, they're automating the heck outta what their job is now. And it's, it's great. So I'm like, oh

Jason Howell (00:20:31):
Yeah, that's fine. But I agree with you. We will have to find some more scut work for, so I put in a story on

Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:37):
Higher level scut work. <Laugh>. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:20:39):
Because use the boxes. You gotta have scut work to progress, in my opinion. You gotta do something. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:20:44):
You can't start, like, you can't give like a 18 year old or a 22 year old outta college something that's Yeah. You know, requires 20 years of experience, but

Jason Howell (00:20:52):
Right. They can.

Jeff Jarvis (00:20:53):
What does that look like? So, so I put in a story at line 35, which is related to this, but it says it's democracy. I'll bring it up now. Yeah. I do <laugh>. Where people are using Che Petee to get multiple full-time

Jason Howell (00:21:02):
Jobs. Ah, yes. The Overp employed.

Jeff Jarvis (00:21:05):
Yeah. Yeah. Which is fascinating <laugh> and I bet it's, I bet it's probably overdone as a story and they turned into a trend that's not really a trend, but it's interesting. You can see how the efficiencies for this kind of crap work are tremendous.

Jason Howell (00:21:17):
Well, yes. And so I, I read through that article and I think what really struck me about that is that these overp employed, so these are people who have realized, hey, I can, I can, instead of having one job, I can have 2, 3, 4 jobs because when I said five is going too far. Yeah, five, I don't think I can pull off five, but I can do four. And I mean, they're making upwards of like 500,000 a year because they're working these multiple jobs because AI does like 75% of the normal kind of busy work that they would do. And I guess my mind just kind of went to, okay. Yeah. Now because we're at the beginning of all of this, but that's gotta change. Like, I can't imagine that's the new norm is everybody can work four jobs and get paid, you know, half a million dollars a year because AI bots are gonna help them work more efficiently. Like everything's gonna adjust towards that at some point. So enjoy it while you Can I

Stacey Higginbotham (00:22:13):
Get Yeah. And <laugh> Well, yeah. And that's the way we are. I mean, that's what we're kind of, we're accelerating this role of like, just hyper, is it hyper capitalism, hyper productivity, hyper something where this, this'll be good for like yeah. A year or two. But if you can make 500 k true a million dollars during that year or two, and then if you're already doing this, you're probably gonna spot the next thing. Then you just hop. You're just, you just can't be. That's a really good point anymore.

Jason Howell (00:22:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'm just jealous. Jealous <laugh>. Yeah. I

Stacey Higginbotham (00:22:49):
Mean, I love being complacent. I'm not gonna lie. I'm like,

Ant Pruitt (00:22:52):
God. Yeah, we've gotten to that point. Let, it's just chill. <Laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:22:56):
I'm 45. I deserve to be chill. <Laugh>. Yes. I just used my experience.

Jeff Jarvis (00:23:01):
I deserve to be frozen.

Ant Pruitt (00:23:04):
Well be frozen. You know, we talked on Sunday because I had the honor and pleasure of being on the, the, the, the big big chair. The big

Jason Howell (00:23:14):
Show. Yeah. Big show. Yes, indeed. Thank you

Ant Pruitt (00:23:16):
By the way. It was a lot of fun. Appreciate you having me on. Yeah. And I asked the same question to Dan Patterson and Jason Heiner about, you know, how how good is this going to be for companies, you know in particularly like enterprise. And we discussed that a lot of automation could go into place once the AI is trained up and it's going to help things like terminated someone, you know, someone decides they wanna leave the company cuz they got another job, you know, so we need to terminate them in the system because what happens, and it was some reported stories that people would get terminated, but a couple acc couple things would still have access for them after they're terminated. And it should have been in a checklist, you know, someone could still log into the c r m if you will or something like that. And if you can log into the crm, you probably could log into some other server on the network that you shouldn't be able to log into outside of the company. And AI could go in and take those different scripts that could be run across multiple systems and maybe create one superscript, if you will, a

Jason Howell (00:24:26):
Termination script if

Ant Pruitt (00:24:27):
You'll <laugh>. Right. You know, I, at, at the previous company I worked at, we had a, a script for terms, that's what we called it terms. And it was pretty methodical. And after doing, you do three or four of them in a row. Yeah. Yeah. You can see why someone would rather have this, that process automated. But we couldn't automate it because if you're using active directory, Microsoft's active directory, it could handle a lot of things, but it couldn't necessarily handle the things on say a Red Hat Linux box that needed to go through and have things checked off from permissions and killing accounts and stuff like that. So if we could get scripts to do all of that in one, that would be great. We'll

Jason Howell (00:25:20):
Get AI to do the, to do the rundown <laugh>. Heck, honestly, we get AI to be us.

Ant Pruitt (00:25:26):
We could have, oh, no, no, that's, I

Jason Howell (00:25:29):
Volunteer too, A tribute. Far <laugh>. I mean, honestly, look at an AI to construct the rundown that's, that's fully believable. Like when I think about my tasks on, on creating a rundown and everything, it's mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it's pulling, you know, what are the, what are the, the news items that are getting kind of the most attention or, or the news items that I just find personally fascinating. Right. so there is a little bit of that, but pretty easy to, for an a, for an AI system to understand what news stories are. The big ones or the controversial ones or the, you know, the, the funniest ones, depending on how people online are reacting to them. Compile a list of those go through each article and pull out the most important notes from each article. Like, I could totally see an AI system, maybe I'm building one right now, you know, <laugh> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> an AI system for podcasters and notes in a doc. I mean, that seems incredibly doable by the time we're off. You'll see a link in the chat. <Laugh> <laugh>.

True. Never knows. Sid may, may have just given someone a really great idea. But so, so then getting back to this idea of AI infused in search. We know that Google, of course, has its bard beyond that Google saw this thing, you know, this, this potential scenario with Samsung going in a different direction. And apparently at least a, according to the I think it was the New York Times that was like, you know, an indicator for Google to really jump on. Okay. Yet another reason why we really need to step up our efforts for, for integrating AI into search. When I think of AI on mobile and what we've interacted with over the past five, seven years of what has been our current model of ai, it's been pretty useful at times. Sometimes it's been kinda like really you know, I, I expected better of you <laugh>, but sometimes, you know, AI on, on the mobile device has been pretty magical. What do we think about like the next five years? The next five years based on what we're seeing right now with ai and going forward, if Google is like full court press to bring these features into, into search, that means it's also bringing it into mobile. And what does that mean for our day-to-day as far as that's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:27:49):
Concerned? Well, hold on. I mean, there's been AI on our mobile devices forever. I mean, look at portrait mode. That is, that is algorithm's designed to isolate. I mean, so, so I want us to be a little bit more specific there, just because I mean, right.

Jason Howell (00:28:03):
No, I, I, <laugh> that's a, that's a good point. And I, I do, I did intend for that. We have had AI on our phones and Google has made a really big deal about that for the past. Right. However many years. But I feel like where we're at right now is we're suddenly, or people are dazzled by what AI can do now that it couldn't do before. And it seems, well, we're dazzled like a, like a shift. So what does that mean going forward?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:28:30):
We're dazzled by it because it's something that we think of as being unique to ourselves and human, which is facility with language and Yeah. Summaries. Right? Correct. So, so I I, and it's so visible and it's so neat. We're like, Ooh, the computer looks like us now <laugh>. Whereas the computer isolating pixels for portraiture or suggesting tone, you know, you're like, eh, what is, or,

Jeff Jarvis (00:28:56):
Or, or Stacy Wright oh, the computer looks like us. Right? It's, it's, it's both reactions at once. Right?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:01):
Right. Yeah, that's true. So, you know, and I don't know about search on my phone, like, okay, search is awesome because search is a x is it still 60 billion? It's a multi billion. Like, it is the revenue that, it is the money that underlies all this innovation for Google in particular, Microsoft has other better sources of revenue as well. Right? So when we break this question down, I'm like, search is so important to Google cuz it's their, it's their cash cow. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Will it change the way we do things on our phone? Yes. Will it change things in a way that is more astronomical than what we've already seen? I I'm a little doubtful but it's a huge threat to Google from that perspective. So, I

Jeff Jarvis (00:29:55):
Mean, but, but Stacy,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:58):

Jeff Jarvis (00:29:58):
Is it you know, I think that's what the presumption is. And everybody was saying, oh my God, oh my god. Microsoft's the head of Google, Google's a problem. What's the value we get from? And, and, and Leo loves his search engine that I keep on forgetting the name of that Neva, what is it? Neva. Neva. Yeah. Neva. But the value we get from search is not conversation, right? It's answers to questions, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> we try, you know, everybody tried to use the voice devices and we talked about this last week where the voice devices going away cuz we really don't get information that way. It's not very convenient. Maybe that's partly voice, but it's partly also conversation. I don't know. I, Stacey, I have the same kind of reaction you did at first, but I'm starting to doubt myself there. Whether if, if Bing keeps on giving back wordy wrong answers is Google better off saying, but we are Google. Well, what do you think?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:30:59):
I mean, I don't think it'll give wordy bad answers forever. Yeah. I think, I mean, I think we recognize that that's a problem. I I think this initial like, ugh, it's glitchy is the same sort of, you remember when we had mobile phones in the very beginning and like calls were dropped and people were appalled and people have made fun of it. Like it was an active punchline way early on in the mobile phone era, right? Yeah. And now best effort voice. Yeah. We all just accept it, right? That's, that's just a part of life. It's whatever. So a best effort search that is impressive and offers other features like, you know, bigger answers, maybe more convenience cuz you have to do less, might actually be the same sort of thing as best effort voice at one time. Unthinkable. And now we're like, yeah, right.

You know what you're getting, right? Mm-Hmm. So that's a, that's a, I don't, I just don't know. Yeah. The other question is for something like, like if Samsung, Google pays Apple and Samsung to put search on their phones, right? And those are big deals and those are big deals because Google needs everybody to be funneling search through Google, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, right? Because that's, again, they're cash cow. So what is the impact? If, if Apple's like Google, everybody wants, bang, you're just not the hotness anymore. I'm going over to Microsoft. That's gonna suck for Google. Cuz that is, I don't know how many web searches away from them and that means those people don't see their ads. So I don't know if it's just a quality on the search or if it's a like, fundamental business issue, if that makes sense.

Jeff Jarvis (00:32:40):
Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, you're right. We don't know mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. but I think Google could, this is, this is, you know, we've talked about before, and I said the rundown today too. I think Google could make a big mistake following Microsoft here, and they could differentiate themselves by saying, we're not gonna do it until we get the right answers, we're not gonna do it. This is what we depend upon. I don't know,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:33:02):
I think it would be a mistake to say we're not gonna do it until we get like the right answers. What one

Jason Howell (00:33:08):
Like that is that point? <Laugh>? Yeah. <Laugh>. But what is that, that point? What is that

Stacey Higginbotham (00:33:11):
Point? So I'm like, where do we draw the, is it three nines? Is it

Jason Howell (00:33:14):
Right? You know, right, right.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:33:16):
One, nine and a bunch of eights. I don't know. So that's, I don't know,

Jason Howell (00:33:20):
<Laugh>, but the alternative, I'm sorry,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:33:22):
I'm, I'm a terrible pundit

Jason Howell (00:33:24):
<Laugh>, but the, the opposite side of that coin is, you know, where where do you draw the line to, to wait long enough for it to be quote unquote safe? Or, you know what Google apparently is doing, according to this article that you put in here on from Bloomberg about just launching Bard ethics, you know, AI ethics be damned, you know, they were very, Google was very focused and attentive when it needed to be. Like when it was feet were held to the fire when they let o let go of timid guru. And suddenly this AI ethics thing was called into question. And Google, you know, kind of, okay, we're really focused on this until there was competition. And then all that went out the window according to this article, a lot of people, you know, from the inside saying, you know, Google was very quick to kind of turn on its heels and just say, w you know, this is now priority number one. Put that on the, on the back burner. We gotta launch no matter what, and we gotta get, we gotta get this stuff into all of our products. But launch

Ant Pruitt (00:34:28):
Isn't Google looking at this as a potential revenue string for profit? Right? I

Jeff Jarvis (00:34:35):
Don't know how

Jason Howell (00:34:38):
I mean by way of s by way of search and ads the way that they are already. Right, right. If, if I'm kind of following, you know, where kind of where you were coming from, Stacy,

Ant Pruitt (00:34:48):
I, I saw that story and I thought, well, Google jumped on it because Microsoft jumped on it and Google said, you know what, if Microsoft's jumping on it, it's gotta be something there we already do search pretty dcom good. And we can up the ante, if you will, and make it even better and just keep getting more and more revenue coming in towards our product. Duh. That's, that's just how I saw it. Mm-Hmm. And I know that the staff could, you know, or, or would be upset about it, but at the same time, Google is still a bad gun business and you know, they don't care about people. I hope

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:22):
There's a transcript somewhere of sitting up Cha saying, we're pretty dad gum good. We're a dad

Jason Howell (00:35:26):
Gum business <laugh>. I, I really hope for that. I want that <laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (00:35:31):
We're a business, we're a for profit. And I think a lot of people lose sight of that. All these companies that we enjoy to speaking about each week, they're, they're, they're companies. They're businesses first. And you know, we like the hope that they're doing the right thing and being nice to the staff and employees or what have you. But bottom line is profit at the end of the day. Did anyone watch the 60 Minutes thing on ai? I did not see that this

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:59):
Sunday, but I couldn't bear it. Margaret Mitchell?

Ant Pruitt (00:36:01):
Yeah, it was hard. <Laugh> <laugh>. It was hard. Actually scream, get through it.

Jeff Jarvis (00:36:06):
Margaret Mitchell said she couldn't bear to, or Tim Gabriel, one of one of the authors of the, of Theas Para and said, I can't bear to watch it. I'll read the transcript. I put something into the last minute there. There was a, they were really wrong about, about something where they, they, there was this moment when I did see this clip where Sundar says, there are these unexpected behaviors. And the unexpected behavior was supposedly it taught itself an entire language without being taught the language. And that's just plain wrong, completely wrong. It was trained on the language. Google talked about how it was trained on the language, it's palm and they let it out. They're like this mysterious machine, you know, grabbed a whole bunch of knowledge and we don't even know how it did it. Not the case. <Laugh> get ready, aunt get ready. It was an example of

Ant Pruitt (00:36:57):
Push the button. Moral

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:00):
Panic care. Oh, Stacy missed the moral panic.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:37:04):
No, I was here for it.

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:05):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:37:06):
<Laugh>. I was here for the moral panic. I saw the button. I was like, is that the same fire that Elmo's in front of in the meme

Ant Pruitt (00:37:12):
<Laugh>? Yes, it's, yes. Did

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:16):
El Elbow fire

Ant Pruitt (00:37:17):

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:18):
What was the movie? What was that movie? Not El Elbow's fire.

Ant Pruitt (00:37:22):
I don't know. There

Stacey Higginbotham (00:37:23):
Was St. Elmo's Fire, but

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:25):
Saint El Elbow's fire. It was Saint El Elbow's fire. Right. Okay. That's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:37:27):
Fire. That's,

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:29):
Is that the basis of El elbow in front of the fire? Oh, I don't know.

Ant Pruitt (00:37:33):
That's, that's a good question. I have no idea for, for good. Let's ask

Jeff Jarvis (00:37:36):
Chad. G p t. It'll make, so

Stacey Higginbotham (00:37:38):
You know what I asked? So I asked Bard how cha how would ChatGPT change search? And I also asked it, oh, I asked it. R is ChatGPT A threat to search, but it got, it got through. And Bard doesn't think too highly of it, surprisingly <laugh>, but it does say chat. G P T could change search in a number of ways. For example, it could be used to provide more comprehensive and informative answers to questions. This is like, and I'll just answer your question then, Jason, on your mobile phone, personalized search results better to match the user's interests on your mobile phone. Make it easier to find information on complex or controversial topics. Help users understand the context of information and make it easier to find information in different languages. However, <laugh> it is important to note that Chad g p t is still under development and is not clear yet how it will be used in the future. So there's, there's how it could change search.

Jeff Jarvis (00:38:33):
It's a cation machine.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:38:36):
I don't think it's a pre verification machine that is a really dicey, or like, that's a scandalous kind of comment there. I was

Jeff Jarvis (00:38:44):
$20 word was that you just

Jason Howell (00:38:46):

Jeff Jarvis (00:38:48):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:38:48):
Fancy way of saying lying <laugh>?

Jeff Jarvis (00:38:50):
No, not lying, lying. Skirting skirt. Media train.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:38:56):
As a journalist, I'm like, it's lying. <Laugh>

Jason Howell (00:38:59):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:39:00):
I, I was, I was just gonna, I don't think I talked about this, but I went to a presentation actually it was about tiny ml in factory automation. So I was surprised when ChatGPT came up. But this company was talking about how in a factory to control your equipment, you have something called a programmable logic controller, which is a dedicated computer that only manages information and data and control of that one piece of equipment. And it's not connected to the internet usually. But these PLCs are like highly custom, very fancy. And they all have their own unique programming languages. It's a total bear to deal with them. But this company used, they wanted to apply a tiny machine learning model and tie it to software that was gonna run from the internet basically to normal people software, not PLC software. So to, to write that code that would combine these things. They used chat J p T and they told it what they were trying to do and they, it and the maker of the plc and it wrote code for them. And they actually ended up using about 40% of the code, which saved them like four hours worth of work, which I think is the right way to look at this

Jeff Jarvis (00:40:11):
Now. Yes, yes, yes. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, and people who don't know how to code can now tell a machine what they want to do. I think that's, that's huge power.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:40:19):
Well, no, I wouldn't say that yet because like, I don't know how to code for a plc. You, you still had to have that knowledge. Well, no, but I, I think like, as someone who doesn't know how to code, what I would end up doing is say, Hey, ChatGPT I wanna do this, this and this, and it would do it. But if it didn't work, I don't have any tools to

Jason Howell (00:40:37):
Fix it. There's no way for you to know how last,

Jeff Jarvis (00:40:39):
Last week there was a story we didn't get to about a you know, everybody, all God's children have their, their generative ais. Now there's one that debugs the programming as it writes it. Ah, ooh.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:40:51):
Okay. Well that is fancy.

Jason Howell (00:40:52):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:40:54):
That could get my little like a d ADHD brain into programming right there.

Jeff Jarvis (00:40:58):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:40:59):
Like I already did this. I'm not looking at it again.

Jason Howell (00:41:02):
<Laugh>, that'll be a new career, a new career direction as someone who's not actually a coder, but who's good at, at understanding how to get, you know, AI systems likes t to code things, you know. Yeah. Organized enough to Right. Questions. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Cool. Well let's let's take a quick break and then we got a whole lot more to talk about this week. You had to know AI was gonna come up in this show. I, I feel like every show across the network these days has some sort of ai angle to it. Cuz it's just how, how can it not? Lisa, our AI

Ant Pruitt (00:41:39):
Discussion is a worth listening to, unlike the mass media. Oh, sorry. Yes, I'm

Jason Howell (00:41:45):
Still you are right. <Laugh>, sir. <Laugh> you. There you go. And that's why you love twit. But let's take a break and thank the sponsor of this episode of this week. And Google is brought to you by Cisco Meraki, the experts in cloud-based networking for hybrid work. You could have employees working from home. They could be working, you know, in a cabin in the mountains somewhere, as long as it has good wifi imagining or, you know, a lounge chair on the beach. Again, good, good coverage. This is kind of required in that situation. But a cloud managed network provides the same exceptional work experience no matter where they are. It's very liberating. You may as well welcome hybrid work because it's not going anywhere. It's here to stay. Hybrid work works best in the cloud. It has its perks for both employees and leaders.

Workers can move faster, they can deliver better results with a cloud managed network. And then, you know, the benefit to leaders is automating distributed operations, building more sustainable workspaces and proactively protecting the network. And I d g market pulse research report conducted four Meraki actually highlights top tier opportunities in supporting hybrid work. Hybrid work is a priority for 78% of C-suite executives. 78% leaders wanna drive collaboration forward. They also wanna stay on top of, or in fact boost productivity and security. Hybrid work, as we very well know, has a number of challenges as well. The I D G report raises the red flag about security. It notes that 48% of leaders report cybersecurity threats as a primary obstacle to improving workforce experiences. Always on security monitoring is part of what makes the cloud managed network so awesome. It can use apps from Meraki's vast ecosystem of partners.

These are turnkey solutions built to work seamlessly with the Meraki cloud platform for things like asset tracking, location analytics and more. And you can gather insights on how people use their workspaces. As one example, in a smart space, environmental sensors can actually track activity and occupancy levels to stay on top of cleanliness. You can reserve workspaces and that's based on vacancy and employee profiles. To allow employees to scout out a spot in a snap. Those locations and restricted environments can actually be booked in advance and include time-based door access. And then finally mobile device management that's integrating devices and systems to allow it to manage, update, and troubleshoot company owned devices. Even when the device and employee are in that remote location somewhere. So you can turn any space into a place of productivity and empower your organization with the same exceptional experience no matter where they work. With Meraki and the Cisco suite of technology, learn how your organization can make hybrid work work. All you gotta do is visit and check it out for yourself. And we thank Cisco Meraki for their support of This Week in Google, blah blah. Do we wanna step off the the gasp the AI gas pedal for a moment and talk a little bit about IO because we've got some interesting You're the boss on the, you're the boss. No, no, keep going. Keep on the love our

Ant Pruitt (00:45:17):
AI discussions. Apparently.

Jason Howell (00:45:19):
<Laugh>. No, no. I hope for IO <laugh> don't people hate our I AI discussions <laugh>. I dunno. I was just, I mean, I'm not saying we won't go venture back into the AI waters, but at some point, but aunt was wearing his ironic hat. Stacy <laugh>. That's

Jeff Jarvis (00:45:34):
You see, so was,

Jason Howell (00:45:35):
Yeah. I

Ant Pruitt (00:45:37):
I I I always give out sarcasm throughout to my family here. And no one ever gets it. They always think I'm serious. So I shouldn't be surprised.

Jeff Jarvis (00:45:45):
I would take you seriously too, aunt. Yeah. Cause it's true. Cause it's the most smart thing to do. You're a serious cop.

Jason Howell (00:45:52):
<Laugh>. Well, let's talk at io. Let's talk a little bit about io, which I mean, honestly, let's be real. We're probably gonna hear a heck of a lot about ai in a number of different Oh yeah. Ways. at io the question is will they screw it

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:05):
Up again?

Jason Howell (00:46:06):
Yeah, right. Yeah. The you know, any, any stage demos, how are those gonna go? I mean, could, could

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:14):
Remember to bring the phone and leave it

Jason Howell (00:46:15):
There. <Laugh> <laugh>, but we've been hearing we're, we're kind of getting a good indication or good view into the hardware aspect of io, which for any developers, prob probably the lesser exciting aspect of Google IO as you know, as a developer conference after all. But, you know, we've all been to io I think, I think all of us have been to IO one, one time or another. And when we're at IO and, you know, they're, they're unloading information about their new devices or anything like that. Definitely.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:55):

Jason Howell (00:46:56):
Yeah. A lot of attention. And, and I think what's interesting about this Google IO is that there are the, there are the devices that we know of and then there's the device that we've only heard about but hasn't really been officially announced which is the Pixel Fold. And it actually looks like this is almost certain to happen. CN BBC has its own sources. There have been other leaks leading up to now, but cn, bbc is, you know, basically saying like it's on the Pixel Fold. That's first foldable device is gonna be launched at Google IO. And I mean, it's, it's gonna be announced May 10th pre-order, same day available from my understanding. June 27th. So a month later, a month and a half later. Probably somewhere between 17 and $1,800. So a pricey device. No,

Jeff Jarvis (00:47:51):
I know Anne will be buying that tomorrow.

Jason Howell (00:47:54):

Ant Pruitt (00:47:56):
Man. Stacey.

Jason Howell (00:47:57):

Jeff Jarvis (00:47:58):
Somebody give Stacy some. Calm

Jason Howell (00:47:59):
Down. Calm down. It's okay. It's okay. Were you getting your hopes up or something?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:48:09):
Well, I haven't even spent that much money on shoes and I know I spent an inordinate amount of money on shoes and that that is a

Jason Howell (00:48:18):
Lot. It's a lot of dough.

Ant Pruitt (00:48:20):

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:21):
That's What shoes are you wearing now, Stacy?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:48:23):
Well, right now I'm wearing my yellow bean slippers. <Laugh>. Oh,

Jason Howell (00:48:26):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:48:30):
<Laugh>. But I, I do have

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:32):
Some, that's all we're worth is LL Bean slippers. Thank you very much.

Jason Howell (00:48:36):
<Laugh>, don't dress up

Stacey Higginbotham (00:48:37):
First. I have, I have some fancy sh like I have some Prada loafers that were very

Ant Pruitt (00:48:41):
Expensive, but,

Jason Howell (00:48:42):
Oh, but not, that's, that's expensive, but not Pixel Fold. Expensive

Ant Pruitt (00:48:48):
Hundred dollars. Good grief, man. I've lot of cash. It

Jason Howell (00:48:52):
Is. Does it make it any better to say that that's about the same price as Samsung's Z fold? No, they're like same, same-ish area. What?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:49:02):
No, that's not true. Is that how much the phone that Leo gave me

Jason Howell (00:49:05):
Was No. Did he give you z Oh no, no slip for the Z fold.

Ant Pruitt (00:49:08):
No, no. The

Jason Howell (00:49:09):
Flip. He gave me the flip, the flip. The smaller one. Oh, how

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:12):
Much does the flip cost

Jason Howell (00:49:15):
<Laugh>? I think that's more like 9 99. That's like a Yeah, I think so. Device. Yeah. Which I

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:20):
Also think is a better size and

Jason Howell (00:49:21):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:49:21):
It's still more than my shoes.

Ant Pruitt (00:49:23):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Still, dang. Some expensive phones should not be a thousand dollars. I mean,

Jason Howell (00:49:27):
Folks phones are expensive. Yeah,

Ant Pruitt (00:49:29):
But I mean, it's not be a thousand dollars, 700 tops in my opinion.

Jason Howell (00:49:33):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:49:34):

Jason Howell (00:49:35):
Paying the Samsung tax maybe, I don't know.

Jeff Jarvis (00:49:38):
9 99. Yep.

Ant Pruitt (00:49:40):
Yeah, I mean get yourself a D MacBook Pro for like 1500 bucks and you can make calls over VO on that thing. Oh

Jason Howell (00:49:48):
Our, you were not gonna hold your pocket and go on a cheese vacation. Okay. Yeah. Carry that around. Like this is different things.

Ant Pruitt (00:49:55):
Okay. Matchbook Air

Stacey Higginbotham (00:49:57):
<Laugh>, I was like, you've got the biceps to carry a pro around, but the rest of us, no way.

Jason Howell (00:50:02):
Yeah. This is, this is an on his phone. He's like, oh, hello.

Ant Pruitt (00:50:06):
Do it. Do it. Do it. It's just crazy. These, these devices cost us much and I've ranted about this before. I don't, oh yeah. I've ranted about it on here. But just a $1,700 phone is, is the opening list price and three months later it's gonna be $900, I guarantee it. And then another three months from that is gonna be roughly 500 bucks. Why not just come out the gate with it under a thousand dollars just and stop overcharging us for, for these devices on launch day? It's ridiculous

Stacey Higginbotham (00:50:37):
Because people will pay for it.

Ant Pruitt (00:50:39):
Yeah. Don't care. We need to stop paying for it and, and, and send, well, at

Stacey Higginbotham (00:50:42):
Some point some people will. I mean, there are people who buy gold phones. Oh, both plated phones.

Jason Howell (00:50:47):
Hey you person, stop being excited about that phone. Stop finding value in that price. <Laugh>, some people just will <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (00:50:55):
I mean, and, and don't get me wrong, I enjoyed a Pixel six pro, but this joint is not a thousand dollars piece of equipment. It's not, it it does well and did what it needed to do. Had its little issues that had to have some software updates to fix it. Still not a thousand dollars phone in my eyes.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:11):
What I don't understand is the, is the utility, unless you're a game player, I guess of the, of the vertical fold Stacey's horizontal fold. I get it. Makes it smaller.

Ant Pruitt (00:51:22):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:23):
Right? It's, it's really hand sized. But the but the but the horizontal, I mean the vertical, I'm getting confused. I I'm not gonna <laugh>. 

Ant Pruitt (00:51:31):
The book Fold

Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:31):
Landscape and portrait. There you go.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:33):

Ant Pruitt (00:51:34):
Tablet fold.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:35):
Stacey, if Leo offered you a vertical fold, would you have said yes or would you have said

Stacey Higginbotham (00:51:45):
I mean I would've tried it. Yeah. But I wouldn't carry it around necessarily. I mean, yeah, it

Ant Pruitt (00:51:50):
Was a big film. I like the idea of the, the vertical fold if you will. Is that what you call it, Mr. The

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:57):
Photos? Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (00:51:58):
I like, I like the idea of one that folds like a book that way. Why? But it, it, I thought Clams show was the other way. Clams,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:06):
She's Oh, the clamshells this

Ant Pruitt (00:52:08):
Way. Shell was like the flip, right? Yes.

Jason Howell (00:52:12):
Clamshells, the flip book fold.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:14):
Book fold is the fold. Clamshell is the flip. That's what we're gonna call it. That makes the most sense. <Laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (00:52:22):
We're gonna do the whole show just with <laugh> hand signals now. Great.

Ant Pruitt (00:52:29):
God <laugh>. No, I, I like this layout for he likes the most reason he's not like dual monitors here at my desk. Oh, okay. For multitasking. I, I, I totally would be down for that. I just don't wanna be down for that for over a thousand dollars because the screen is only gonna be this big, you know, 6.2 inches or something like that. It's not worth it.

Jeff Jarvis (00:52:53):
So Dr.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:54):
I like for multitasking.

Ant Pruitt (00:52:57):
Yeah, multitasking is is why I'm,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:52:58):
I'm not Dr. Android. Sorry about that. <Laugh>. Right.

Jeff Jarvis (00:53:00):
No, it's fair. <Laugh>,

Jason Howell (00:53:02):
I mean it's the, the, the fold is really just meant to be, it's a phone most of the time, but it's a tablet when you want it. And that's the one that's the, the benefit I suppose.

Jeff Jarvis (00:53:15):
Okay. Would you want it?

Jason Howell (00:53:17):
I, you know, I'm, I'm kind of same as Stacy. I really want to use it. I want to try it. I've used the Z fold a few different iterations of the Z fold. Cause Leo has, you know, bought, bought them a couple of times and I've gotten them for review and everything and I just find, I always found them very bulky. Like yes, they fold down to a phone size sorta, but definitely not thickness, you know, it's, it's probably like two, you know, twice as thick if not a little bit thicker. And so it really ends up being, you know, cuz I carry my phone in my pocket, it ends up feeling like a huge brick that I'm hauling around with me all the time. And and, and then it's like, do I u actually unfold it and use it in that way enough to justify the cost? Probably.

Jeff Jarvis (00:54:05):
Plus it's not a one, it's not a one hand or it's not an easy,

Jason Howell (00:54:08):
It's not a one hand device. No. Yeah, it's, I mean it is when it's folded, but Ooh, don't drop it. If you got it open, it's really hard to hold onto with one hand. You know,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:54:18):
Can you do one app on one side and another app on the other side and

Jason Howell (00:54:23):
Yeah, you can with the Z fold. Okay. I'm pretty certain they're gonna be, that they're gonna allow you to do that with the Pixel Fold. You know, Android's been getting a lot of updates, the last couple of versions in order to really solidify compatibility for these larger size foldable devices. And that's kind of part of it is the multitasking aspect has been, you know, a part of that. Also having like a little launch bar like a task bar like, like you're used to seeing on a laptop, that sort of stuff.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:54:57):
It's a computer cuz we're doing more computer tasks. I mean, the only time I want multitasking on my phone is when I'm doing something like I'm trying to manage my email and I'm pulling in data from something else and trying to stay. I mean, and then I'm like, why the heck am I trying to do this on my phone? And I'm like, it's cause my computer's so bulky and I don't wanna get it out, or I don't wanna go to my desk. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But,

Ant Pruitt (00:55:18):
You know, my pick of the week would be ideal for a fold. Because of, of being able to look at different menus on one screen and having another viewer on the other screen where you can sort of see how this menu affects the, the, the image or, or the output or program output or what have you. And just like I would sitting at a desk with multiple monitors, it just just makes sense to me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, creative wise,

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:47):
Perga, wouldn't you turn now to really confuse things? Wouldn't you turn it this way?

Jason Howell (00:55:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

Ant Pruitt (00:55:54):
Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:55):
<Laugh> and, and so the controls are on the bottom screen and the, and the, and the actions on the top screen. Right?

Ant Pruitt (00:56:00):
Right. Yeah. That would be cool too.

Jason Howell (00:56:03):
Yeah. You know, and some, like, at least as with the Samsung example, there are certain apps and games that make use of the fact that like, on the inside, you know, you've got a, a seamless display, but it has a little bit of a crease that allows you to delineate that this screen is dedicated to this, you know, UI element or whatever. And this, this screen is dedicated to something else like the, like the camera app, the stock Samsung camera app. If you got the fold and you unfold it halfway or whatever, it's gonna give you kind of like your preview of what the camera shows on one screen and on the other half of the screen's gonna give you all of your controls. And so certain things like that are definitely cost.

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:46):
So, so you pulled up a, a thing this big to take a picture? Yeah, you can do that now. Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:56:52):
I was about to say that. That is a thing people do now, but Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:54):
That's not unusual. Hey,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:56:56):
Anyone remember? I'm just gonna take us like a little jot down memory lane. Wait,

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:00):
Remember it's memory lane day for you. I

Stacey Higginbotham (00:57:01):
Know. I'm just like the historian. So was it 2005, maybe 2004, the Intel ad campaigns about your unwired life, and they were all about adding it was when they were adding wifi to their laptops and really just laptops in general,

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:22):
<Laugh>, unwired

Stacey Higginbotham (00:57:23):
Phones. And suddenly, yeah, it was something like that. It was like, unwire your life or something like that. And we were all like, I mean, and the best they could do was show people with their laptop, like outside Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:35):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:57:35):
Yeah. Working <laugh>. And so I feel like we're in another one of those moments where we're just like, we love, we don't, we don't realize it, but we lo we want our computing to be as powerful as possible and as mobile as possible. And that's kind of what this is encapsulating. And we will make sacrifices to get there. I don't know if we're gonna make all the sacrifices, but the other thing is we are not, we're moving away from a content creation model where we're creating content with like lots of words. Like Jeff, what, like all of us do really, except for aunt who does a lot of things.

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:10):
You calling me wordy?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:12):
Yes. But not, not what was it? What was it? You said something was wordy and wrong. You're not necessarily wordy and wrong. <Laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:22):
B b is gonna be wordy and wrong. I'm not being, yeah. Thank you very much. I am not big <laugh> don't bing me.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:29):
It's my compliment of the day for Jeff <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:32):
It's not bing <laugh>.

Jason Howell (00:58:33):
It's good as it gets.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:36):
But yeah. So I, I feel like this is just like this continuum and, and so if you take it, yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:41):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:58:43):
I don't know where I was going with that, but that was,

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:45):
Well I think Stacy, it goes to last week we, I was asking you about chips and you told me, I was asking you about a boring story, but the the, the, the, the major drop in in laptops and Yes. Pandemic and yes, this and yes that. But I think your point about evermore mobile matters, but mobile, there's gonna be middle grounds like tablets, you know, speaking.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:10):
Yeah. Oh, were we gonna talk about your tablet?

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:13):
<Laugh> <laugh>?

Jason Howell (00:59:14):
No, I think you're probably teasing ahead to the other IO things

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:20):
I'm curious about. Your reactions to this

Jason Howell (00:59:21):
Will be the Pixel tablet, which we already kind of know about, know

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:26):
About. Yeah. Because they showed it

Jason Howell (00:59:27):
Last year. They showed it last year that it would happen this year at some point. Looks like it's gonna happen at this io. I mean it really looks like IO is gonna be a big hardware announcement. If

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:38):

Jason Howell (00:59:39):
I know Chromebooks that I've heard of Pixel, the

Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:42):
Big pixel tablet. Couldn't the Pixel tablet work for you, Jeff?

Jason Howell (00:59:45):
That's what I was gonna ask Ms. Stacy. How big is the tablet? Maybe he

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:48):
Could use it. It's, it's Android not Chrome. Right? Oh,

Jason Howell (00:59:51):
Right. You like CHRO os

Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:53):
It is a Android soft matte look with textured feet. That's me. I have a soft matte look and textured

Jason Howell (00:59:59):

Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:59):
Because I walk around barefoot <laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:03):
But sometimes in very expensive shoes.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:06):
Well, yeah, those, those protect my textured feet. <Laugh> and hide them. <Laugh>

Jason Howell (01:00:11):
You would find, I, I imagine you would find this pretty interesting too, Stacy, is that, so this Pixel tablet is going to have a dock with it that turns it into basically like a nest, a nest hub essentially. Oh. Which we've talked about. Yeah. Oh, I'm, I'm sure you guys have talked about on TWiG. I know we've talked about it on all about Android. Yep. over the course of the last year, you know, as we're leading up to this final release of the Pixel tablet is Oh, could the, is that the ultimate, you know, the, the kind of ultimate play is that yes, it's a tablet, but it's also your home control device and this dock that apparently you take it around think it's, I I don't know if it's, it ships with the dock or if I,

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:55):
I think one story said it would ship with.

Jason Howell (01:00:57):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:58):
It would or wouldn't because I heard that it might not. Okay. Oh, really? Oh, because I was like, cuz it, it talked about a price for the doc being like 130 or $129.

Jason Howell (01:01:07):
Ooh. I saw conflicting reports on this. The, the,

Jeff Jarvis (01:01:10):
But the, the nine to five Google story said four colors, this included doc.

Jason Howell (01:01:15):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:01:18):

Jason Howell (01:01:18):
So that's interesting.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:01:20):
And do we know what, what are they charging for this tablet now? Did they, did we get

Jason Howell (01:01:24):
A, do we have a price on the, on the tablet? That's a question. I don't

Stacey Higginbotham (01:01:30):
Know what I just saw expensive tablet, so I was like, oh, that's the top. Is

Jeff Jarvis (01:01:34):
It a seven inch or an eight inch? Do we know how big is it? Does that matters greatly? Eight inch? I don't like seven. I I want my next is seven to back.

Jason Howell (01:01:42):
Yeah. let's see here. Sorry, I'm, I'm trying to, 11 inches long. Seven inches tall.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:01:52):

Jeff Jarvis (01:01:52):
Is that equivalent to the Nexus seven?

Jason Howell (01:01:55):
Well, so it's a more of a landscape device. 11. No, I don't, I don't believe it is. That's larger than the Nexus seven. The

Jeff Jarvis (01:02:03):
Nexus seven was oh no, yeah. No, the s a seven was 7.8 by 4.7. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:02:09):
Yeah. This is a standard tablet size. Yeah, this is Whoa. Yeah, like a larger Yeah. Regular tablet size kind of like a, like seven was like a mini tablet. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:02:17):
Right. Duh. Yeah. Duh. I just see, I can't do vertical and horizontal without thinking <laugh>. I can't do dimensions very well without thinking, you know, I, they, I'm a pretty, I was a smart kid, I think. But I'd take those standardized tests where the pulley starts here, then it goes around all the, I had no idea. I just came up and said, I don't use pulleys. I'm never going to <laugh>. I can't do this.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:02:39):
You have used pulleys. I guarantee it. It's spatial

Jeff Jarvis (01:02:42):
Relations. I don't do spatial relations. I can't do a You can't sing Stacy. I can't do spatial relations.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:02:48):
I, I can't either. They're harder for me. I got you. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different part of the brain.

Jeff Jarvis (01:02:53):
Wait, it's empathetic. Stacy today. <Laugh>,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:02:56):
It's the hat. It's, yeah. Not cold and bitter. I'm like warm and snugly.

Jeff Jarvis (01:03:02):
<Laugh>, <laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:05):
Okay. So this tablet, I'm really excited about it, but it kind of depends on how much it costs because like mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I could get like the charging dock if that's like 130 bucks. If we're looking at a, like a $500 tablet, that is way too effing much to pay for a kind of smart home display interaction device. Yeah. I know it's also a tablet, but I have an iPad for that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it works just great. Mm-Hmm.

Jeff Jarvis (01:03:29):
<Affirmative> tablet.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:30):
So, so I feel like, I don't know what Google's trying to do here, but like my Lenovo display that they're now gonna stop supporting, that was 250 bucks when I bought it. And that felt like a decent price. I mean, it was kind of expensive, but I was like, yeah, I'll do that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But if you're co like the comps for that sort of thing. Feel like an iPad.

Jeff Jarvis (01:03:52):
What price? Yeah. Do you think a reasonable price?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:03:55):
Probably like, I mean, it depends on the size of the tablet, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,

Jeff Jarvis (01:03:59):
It's a big example, you know?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:00):
Yeah. I mean that's pretty substantial. So I would say maybe 300. But

Jeff Jarvis (01:04:06):
I, I am speculation more expensive is four to five, $300 for a full size tablet. That that's what you're saying. It'd be low.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:14):
Well see. And the other thing is, I don't, I don't need a full size tablet. I need a good display for my smart home. Like I, and if you combine the two, then maybe in like four years after my iPad, my, my latest iPad dies maybe. But then my husband would kill me because all of his games are on the iOS ecosystem. So I don't really need a Google tablet, I guess. Right. I'm

Jeff Jarvis (01:04:37):
Really sure. For iOS, could you imagine carrying the, that the tablet is portable or you already doing your phone? Or is there a benefit to carrying the home control device around?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:47):
Oh, well, I mean we have, again, y'all are going to know I'm out in myself left and right here. But we have a couple iPads floating around. So we have a downstairs and an upstairs one for whoever wants to control things in the home already.

Jeff Jarvis (01:05:03):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:04):
So, but we don't actually use, we just control it via the apps. Like, cuz we also have the Google devices everywhere in the house too. Yeah. So like, I'd have to start from a blank slate, I guess. Mm. And I'm, so in like four years I will, and we'll see where we're at.

Jeff Jarvis (01:05:21):
What's the market? This, I don't hear any, any thought of this coming with a keyboard and being No. At a laptop. This is, this is, this is home oriented. No. What's the market opportunity you think Google sees here?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:33):
Well, I think it's the people who have iPads. Like, okay, in my house I have displays for controlling things and if it's a photo frame when it's not used, that's really fun. Right. And we talk to it, we tell it to play Netflix. If we're sitting at the breakfast bar you know, duo calls, whatever, we actually use ours like that. Not every day necessarily, but enough. And then if it's also a tablet, we are on our, I people on our house are on iPads probably like, probably actually could tell you cuz I have the data from our <laugh> broadband usage, but like four or five hours a day, either watching videos, like somebody's watching, my husband might be on the couch watching a video or my kids downstairs watching or like playing a game on just like to de-stress, you know? So those are the two kind of display worlds that this could fill.

Ant Pruitt (01:06:24):
Uhhuh, <affirmative>.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:06:25):
But we currently have separate devices for it and we have multiple of them. And the value is in multiple of them because there's always one to hand when you want it. Mm-Hmm.

Ant Pruitt (01:06:38):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:06:39):
Right. And at $800, or sorry, 500 for the tablet, 130 for the doc. I don't know if we would have as many as we currently have.

Ant Pruitt (01:06:50):
Yeah. It's, I just wonder what can Google do to get people to buy their tablet that a either have an iPad and looking to replace their iPad or don't have one and was probably going to get an iPad because iPads was just so good from a hardware and user experience. What exactly can they do? And if you're saying make this thing a little less expensive, that's a good draw. But will they compromise the hardware on that first thing that came to my mind when you said $300 for one? I'm like, that screen is gonna look horrible at like HD <laugh> when this shit hit get 1440.

Jason Howell (01:07:27):
What, what kind of Yeah sacrifices do they make in order to get it to $300? I mean, I'm on Google right now searching for the second gen Nest hub just to, you know, understand how much that is. That's a hundred dollars. A hundred dollars for a screen. Yeah, but with a stand that controls your stuff, it's not a tablet.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:07:44):
Yeah, this is the Nest hub. Oh, hold on.

Jason Howell (01:07:46):
Oh, I guess it's smaller too, isn't it? It's a smaller display. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:07:50):
Let me, let me give you,

Jason Howell (01:07:52):
Yeah, it's a smaller screen. That's right. Yeah. I forgot about that. So it's not the same size screen. So there's that benefit I suppose. I mean, if the tablet's $500 let's say, that's my guess. I, I don't know. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know that it's going to be $500, but if I had to guess mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I'd say 4 99 let's say. Right? If it was 4 99 and it came with a stand, that would be one thing because then it's like, okay, well I'm in the market for a tablet. I get this tablet and oh, it can also be this thing that I don't have in my kitchen. So that'll be where that lives. I can control my smart home on it and it's a tablet, which was my original reason to buy it. I don't know why anyone would buy that if their original goal is to get a smart home control thing. Yeah. Cause that seems like a really expensive, smart home control device. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> if you don't already need

Stacey Higginbotham (01:08:39):
Tablet. Yeah. If you're gonna spend

Jason Howell (01:08:40):
That, you know what I mean? Yeah. If

Stacey Higginbotham (01:08:42):
You're gonna spend that, you're gonna have like a savant or a control for some system that already comes with like a either a fancier version of an Android tablet or an iOS tablet that's just plopped under your wall. I just, I don't, I don't know.

Jason Howell (01:08:58):

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:58):
I have no tab, I have no tablet lust.

Jason Howell (01:09:01):

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:02):
I'm, you know, I just, I used to, I love my Nexus seven. I've said that 10 times though. I was also ear early, early on the show. I think you children were too young for this. I notoriously re boxed the iPad when the iPad came out because I said it's not a creation device, it's just a watching device. That's boring. Okay. I was obnoxious. Oh

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:25):
Yeah. Well tablets, tablets are, I mean, they're not word cre. Like, that's one of the things I was thinking about when we were talking about the future of smaller computers and whatever. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:34):
Right, right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:35):
But they, they can be, I mean, my kid does like,

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:38):
Oh, now they are, yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:39):
All kinds of crazy

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:41):
Crap up. Oh yeah, absolutely. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely.

Jason Howell (01:09:43):
Yeah. They've definitely evolved over the years, but at the same time, like, I totally agree with you, Jeff. I don't really have a whole lot of need in my life right now. No. For tablet. Yeah. So I'm sorry. I'm gonna be really curious to see how Google kind tells the story of the Pixel tablet. Yeah. just to, well,

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:04):
How did they tell it? What they, what they introduced it last time? It was just kinda a hardware story. It wasn't a use story.

Jason Howell (01:10:10):
Yeah, they certainly, I mean, they really didn't say a whole lot about it. It was really added as like a and by the way, sometime next year, you know, and they kind of showed a little shot of it and that, that was really about it. They didn't do a whole lot of story. All

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:23):
Right. So let's circle back. Fabulous. Jason. Not, not trying to get us off the io, but just a little, a little tiny peninsula here.

Jason Howell (01:10:30):
Okay. <laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:32):
Is, it's supposed to have the tensor chip.

Jason Howell (01:10:35):
Yeah. The gt the tensor g2.

Jeff Jarvis (01:10:38):
Yes. What does AI add to the tablet experience potentially that we don't remember from our old tablets? Oh, anything. Good question.

Jason Howell (01:10:47):
I, I mean honestly, I'd say that's

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:49):
Same, same sort of stuff. It's been adding forever.

Jason Howell (01:10:50):
Exactly. I think it's the same stuff that you have on your Pixel seven or whatever, you know. I don't think that, I don't, I'm guessing that there is not much in the way of difference between the Pixel tablet and the Pixel seven. Other than one is a larger screen and taps into the work that Google's done for a tablet, you know experience versus on the phone. I think, I think they probably do very similar things. You know, it, the tablet has one camera, so your key photo capabilities are, are less. But I mean, I don't know that AI gives the tablet any more capabilities than what we've already seen be my guess. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:11:29):

Jason Howell (01:11:29):
Right. You

Jeff Jarvis (01:11:29):
Know, I wanna be, I wanna be excited about something to buy <laugh>.

Jason Howell (01:11:34):
What about the Pixel seven A? No, I, I, I realize I'm stretching here, but we know we're gonna see that at Google IO as well. That's their next a series. Bob, you might get mid

Jeff Jarvis (01:11:43):
Range. I think. I'm gonna bet you're gonna get one of those. That's the one that usually does well, right? The Aeries Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:11:49):
They've done pretty well with their A series. You know, they, they've brought a lot of value to the midrange with the Aeries and they take the design of the current flagship, kind of scale it down and make a really great kind of fac, you know, lower cost facsimile of it. And yeah, I think, I think the Aeries has been pretty solid year after year. So almost certainly gonna be you know, hearing about, well, I, I <laugh>, I'm pretty darn certain that you're gonna be hearing about the Pixel seven A at Google IO. I think it releases same day. So that's Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:25):
Yeah. You're

Jason Howell (01:12:26):
Coordinated thing.

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:27):
You're getting them. They're gonna have a few select journalists there offering them, I think. Yes. Maybe.

Jason Howell (01:12:32):
Yeah. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:33):
Don't know. Maybe

Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:34):
Look under your chair. Yay.

Jason Howell (01:12:37):
Used to be that we gave out hardware. Google IO. Well, we're back, you know, something like

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:44):
That. <Laugh>.

Jason Howell (01:12:46):
Google, if you need me to write your scripts for you, just let me know.

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:49):
Google Cardboard. We're bringing it back.

Jason Howell (01:12:53):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:53):
Hey, I got the first Nexus device at a, I was like, Ooh. So fancy. Yeah, it fun.

Jason Howell (01:13:00):
Do wait a minute. So the, when you say the first Nexus device was, did they give out the, the phone, the Nexus one?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:06):
Yeah, it was under your chair.

Jason Howell (01:13:08):
That was an under your

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:09):
Chair chair Nexus two. It wasn't really under your chair. I don't know if it was under

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:13):
Pick it up.

Jason Howell (01:13:14):
I can't, I can't remember. I I never had the N one. I, it was one of all the Nexus. I never had the Nexus one and I never had the Nexus four.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:23):
Let me just make sure it was the Nexus one, cuz I guess maybe it was the Nex, but I think it was their first one.

Jason Howell (01:13:28):
Yeah. The Nexus

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:29):
One, because I was so flummoxed. Yeah, it was,

Jason Howell (01:13:31):
It was a little rollie ball.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:33):
Kevin was supposed to be there and he wasn't. And so I had to go and I was like, I didn't cover mobile devices. I covered semiconductors. And I was like,

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:43):
<Laugh>, gimme a chip.

Jason Howell (01:13:44):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:13:45):
Yeah. I was like, the heck am I do it here, but I, I managed

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:50):
<Laugh> walk. Yeah. Oh, the Nexus man. I remember that. That was the, the ball was, had a funny feeling. Had a neat, funny feeling to it. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:13:57):
It was definitely a different different phone. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:59):
Liked that phone. I liked that phone.

Jason Howell (01:14:01):
That was my, that was with that phone was my earliest experience in getting I was working at CNET at the time and I was behind the scenes. I I, I don't even know if I was doing buzz out loud, like, you know, in, in front of the mic at that point. And I was one weekend I was out to dinner with a group of people, you know, with my wife and some friends, and then a bunch of people I didn't know and someone No, that's right. I was doing an Android show at, at cnet. And someone at the table pulls out a phone and I knew that Google was working on a Google phone and he pulled it out and it hadn't been announced publicly yet. And I looked at it and I started talking to him and he said, yeah, this is, this is Google's new phone.

It's gonna be released soon. And I tweeted out that I had seen it, and then like, he got picked up by the news and I felt like, I felt so like, yeah, <laugh>. I did that. I made that news happen. I leaked it in a leaker <laugh> <laugh>. My only experience where that happened, I, I felt it was so early on in, in my tech before Discord leak. Powerful <laugh>. Yeah, exactly. That's my, that's my Nexus one story. Okay, well that's Google IO. We got that coming up in a couple of weeks. I guess it's like three weeks away. And yeah. I Is anyone else here going? I mean, I'm, I'm gonna be there. Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:23):
Rub it in. Rub it in. Mr. Hum.

Jason Howell (01:15:25):
Right. I just, I just want to know who I'm gonna see there.

Ant Pruitt (01:15:27):
I am backup. If I have to

Jason Howell (01:15:30):
Go back, goes back up.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:15:32):
Will you be the weekend before? I'll be in Sonoma, which is right next door to

Ant Pruitt (01:15:36):
Petaluma. I know where that is. Ooh,

Jason Howell (01:15:38):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:15:39):
But no, I'm not going to io

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:41):
On Fruit One

Stacey Higginbotham (01:15:43):

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:44):

Jason Howell (01:15:45):

Ant Pruitt (01:15:46):
And barbecue. Go get you some barbecue too. Oh, sorry. Really? That's a rant. Not a rant. That's a off the rails comment. Sorry. Carry

Stacey Higginbotham (01:15:55):
On. That's okay.

Jason Howell (01:15:56):
<Laugh> is that we never do that. Is poking fun at at Sonoma Barbecue? It's just not No,

Ant Pruitt (01:16:00):
No, no, no. There's legit barbecue in Calistoga. Oh, it's outside of Sonoma.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:06):
Send me, send me links. I'll take

Ant Pruitt (01:16:08):
It. I shall,

Jason Howell (01:16:10):
I had no idea. I'm on. I'll

Stacey Higginbotham (01:16:12):
Trust you on Barbecue Amp cuz I feel like you you're from the South, you'll know. Good

Jason Howell (01:16:15):
Barbecue. Yes, exactly. I need to know where this place is.

Ant Pruitt (01:16:19):

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:19):
So I thought Kaki was something you made up an and then I saw somebody refer to themselves on Twitter as Ack that I thought

Ant Pruitt (01:16:25):
I Art

Jason Howell (01:16:26):
<Laugh>. I had no idea. <Laugh>. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:30):
Thought it was a, a Leo and, and an aunt joke. Oh, old

Ant Pruitt (01:16:34):
That I know, man. Bless you. All right.

Jason Howell (01:16:35):
It's a a

Ant Pruitt (01:16:36):
Thing. We got, we gotta get you outside a little more. Mr. Jarvis

Jason Howell (01:16:39):

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:40):
No, no. I They don't gonna start sneezing right now. No, I'm staying inside.

Jason Howell (01:16:44):
Yeah. <laugh>. All right, let's take a break and I'm gonna thank the sponsor of this episode. And then how about while I'm doing this cuz there's so much, I mean, we've, we've talked about a couple of Google stories, which is great. It's This Week in Google. There's lots of other stuff in here. So if y'all have any favorites or whatever when I'm done with this ad, like, I'm curious, I'm gonna open up the democracy and see, see what y'all wanna talk about. So have that in mind.

Jeff Jarvis (01:17:13):
We should, we should turn this into like, like one of those game shows where we start, we start betting with each other and, and trading points and convincing aunt to go against Stacey and go for a story. Stacy with blank. Just, just for the, you know, just gamify it more an would never <laugh>.

Jason Howell (01:17:31):
It's cuz I afraid.

Jeff Jarvis (01:17:32):
Unless it's a sports story. Yes.

Jason Howell (01:17:34):
I'm afraid there are some sports stories in here. <Laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:17:37):

Jason Howell (01:17:38):
We can make that happen.

Jeff Jarvis (01:17:39):
Sorry, Jason

Jason Howell (01:17:40):
<Laugh>. No, it's all good. All good. Okay. Hold on to it. We're gonna take a break. And thank ACI learning This Week in Google's brought to you by ACI Learning. We love ACI learning around here. Military members are some of the most tech savvy people on the planet. As service members transition into civilian life, deciding where to start might actually feel very overwhelming. Well, ACI learning proudly supports veterans wanting to choose a tech career to support their goals. Veterans are uniquely qualified for tech positions as the military uses some of the most advanced technology in the world. It also makes it the biggest target for hackers. And many service members are well trained to protect systems from attacks, which makes working in tech perfect for their experience, the experience they already have. And because tech is such a varying field, many opportunities are increasingly popular for veterans, including cybersecurity.

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A c i Learning and TWIT TV would like to thank our veterans and active duty service members for their service to our country. Thank you. Our military uses some of the most advanced technology in the world that makes veterans uniquely qualified for IT and cybersecurity positions. And you can learn more about ACI learning's, premium training options across o audit IT and cybersecurity slash twit. And make sure and use Code TWIT 30. When you go there, you'll get 30% off a standard or premium individual IT pro membership that's go dot aci and use code TWIT 30 for 30% off. And we thank them for their support of This Week in Google. All right. Throwing the dice out and see where it lands. What do, what do you all wanna talk about? Is there a story in here that's that's really catching your imagination that you wanna discuss?

Ant Pruitt (01:21:40):
Why not take a look at the CK story, like to get that was a Jarvis's and Ms. Higginbotham's thoughts on the whole journalistic side of things with Ni Eli Patel? Yes. Chris be

Jason Howell (01:21:54):
Yeah. Chris Best c e o of CK interviewed by NI Eli Patel on his podcast. Ni Eli, I felt framed a pretty fair question mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to Chris as far as what kind of content is allowed. Can't remember if he was talking about CK in general or if it's isolated tock notes. He was,

Jeff Jarvis (01:22:18):
I think it was both. I was just saying, would you, if allows direct racism would, if, if somebody said that, that a person with brown skin shouldn't be here, would you allow that?

Jason Howell (01:22:29):
Right. And Chris just would not answer the question. I mean, he was given so many opportunities to do so. I didn't feel like it was an unfair question to ask. Not at

Ant Pruitt (01:22:40):
All. No, no.

Jason Howell (01:22:42):
Not at all. I I was, it was, it was just kind of confusing. Like, I don't understand why you don't just say no. Like

Jeff Jarvis (01:22:49):
He was doubly fair by saying, I'm giving you an easy question. Yes, totally. Give me the answer, you know, you should give me and he wouldn't do it.

Ant Pruitt (01:22:56):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I watched that, well, not watched it. I listened to it, the full show and yeah, it, it's definitely cringeworthy and I mentioned this on the Sunday show, it, it seemed like this was a c e o trying to be safe and not say the wrong thing because he did not have That's ironic. <Laugh> the publicist in his, in, in his ear, whispering what he can and can't say. So he, he literally just, just got quiet. At least that's what it sounded like to me. When did the show, did this occur at, was it beginning or end? This was in the middle of it, middle of the episode. How, how was it the rest of the show after that? Yeah, it was informative. He, he just gave a lot of insight on the whole beef that CK and Twitter had going <laugh>.

And there was a lot of insight there far as the whole api. There's just a lot of good information about the platform in general. And then in the middle of it was this incident here about content moderation. And again, listening to that, he, he sounded like he wasn't sure how to answer that because what it, what it ended up being is he didn't want to necessarily muddy the line between content moderation and free speech. And on Sunday we discussed this and Dan mentions that a lot of tech companies are trying to wrap themselves around the, the, the, the blanket of, of free speech to protect themselves and keep them out of trouble and not have to worry about content moderation. And that's not necessarily fair, but I get where they're coming from. Cuz the example that I used again Sunday, and I want y'all to think about this as if you were me a black man here in the us Okay.

And here in my neighborhood, I am, this house is the only family of black people in this whole neighborhood. We stand out <laugh>. I mean, there's an even, there was even an instance where a man at a game says, oh, you're the black family in over there in our neighborhood. You know, so, and he didn't mean it maliciously, it's just it was a fact. Yeah. But let's say I'm walking the neighborhood minding my own business and someone across the street or what have you, says something to me out of the way, that person, I could look at him and say, you know what? That person is racist. Or I can look at him and say, that person is a jackass. And a lot of times it's, they're just jackasses out there. They're not always racist. And I think that's the line that the CEO was struggling with right there, because I can't sit here and say he, he's for these racist comments being on their platform. And at the same time as a business, he doesn't necessarily want to cut out free speech and, and get it mixed up with moderation some kind of way thought

Stacey Higginbotham (01:25:53):
As a business. He doesn't have any obligations to free speech. Mm-Hmm. Right. And I would also argue that it is better business to say, yeah, there are certain things we won't allow on the platform. Yeah. And I mean, anybody who, yeah. Anyway.

Ant Pruitt (01:26:13):
No, go ahead <laugh>. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:15):
You can't have, you can't be a platform and have free speech in a world of, I can't, I don't think we're supposed to say the word jerk that you said jerks. Because they're jerks and jerks, their mo is to push and to

Jeff Jarvis (01:26:31):
Right, right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:32):
To try to inflame. And so it's, again, I will, I will, did Nita use the shopping ball? Someone used the shopping ball analogy, but I, I think of, again, the dinner party mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you're, you're inviting people over and if someone doesn't behave in a way that's great, you don't let them stay. Right. Right. Or you ask them to leave.

Ant Pruitt (01:26:55):
Right. Right, right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:26:56):
And if you don't like my dinner party because you're like a big fan of Nazi Germany and love, you know, hating on brown people, then mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, that's okay by me. I'm okay with that.

Jeff Jarvis (01:27:08):
Yeah. <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (01:27:09):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I heard this whole free speech phrase being been thrown out, you know, a lot over the last couple of years, be it because of the stuff that has happened on Twitter, be it what's that other one? Parer. Parler And, and true social. And everybody there fusses, well not everybody, but a lot of people always talk about, this is where I can have free speech, this is where I can have free speech. But then what's the, where's the line you're drawn? Because <laugh>, are you just flat out racist? Or are you just a, a, a jerk, you know?

Jeff Jarvis (01:27:46):
Well, listen, this is the whole cancel culture thing too, right?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:27:49):
It's well free speech has been weaponized.

Jeff Jarvis (01:27:50):
Exactly. Exactly. Yes.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:27:55):
Is it parlor or is it parlay?

Ant Pruitt (01:27:58):
I was talking parlor. It, it's er I don't know if it's necessarily French. Like

Jeff Jarvis (01:28:03):
I can't imagine those folks using the not pronunciation. Well,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:28:06):
It's, it's parlay is to speak, so I Damn still I just <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (01:28:12):
Yeah. But that's in La Fran say, right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:28:14):
You're right. No, you're right. I just, my brain,

Ant Pruitt (01:28:18):
I have a hunch that the, that crew that put that together and not necessarily leaning on the French terminology. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:28:24):
These, this is the crowd that accuses them being, you know, surrendered cheese monkeys. Yeah. Dang.

Ant Pruitt (01:28:29):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:28:30):
Cheese monkeys.

Jeff Jarvis (01:28:32):
Remember that.

Ant Pruitt (01:28:33):

Jeff Jarvis (01:28:35):
I do not. Anyway, I think, I think much credit to Eli, I think it was a good journalistic mm-hmm. <Affirmative> effort he gave him. He, he was, he was blunt, he was direct, he had the right question. Yep. Did let him off the hook. He gave him a chance and he, and he, and, and best showed him himself and his company for what they are. Mm-Hmm.

Jason Howell (01:28:52):
<Affirmative> Well, before, before this was, was there what's the word I'm looking for? Was CK as a not, not quite so pure. I don't know, I don't know how to phrase this. Well, yeah. Was it, was this a first, like tarnish tarnishing? It has, well it has, it

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:12):
Has, it gave a lot of money to and promoted the Barry Weiss of the world, the people who send the letters and say, I have my free speech to say anything I wanna say. Yeah. And not quite Joe Rogan, but it tickles the Joe Rogan toes there. Okay. And, and so,

Ant Pruitt (01:29:28):
So again, you just made a delineation right there. Yes, I

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:30):
Did. Right.

Ant Pruitt (01:29:31):
I did there. And, and I think that's what he boy as the CEO was trying to, to battle with. This is all right. There is that line. Let me make sure I'm just, just right

Jeff Jarvis (01:29:41):
Below fella. You can't, as Eli showed him, you can't mm-hmm.

Jason Howell (01:29:44):
<Affirmative> you can't. Yeah. I don't know because I, I think you end up, I mean, my view on that interview is he does more damage by not making the the Yes. Yeah. The making the stand. Right. On something like, on an example that was so obviously easy to say heck no, too mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like, unless, unless you are a platform that welcomes that sort of thing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and there are platforms that exist that are open's now open to that sort of thing and Yes. Right. And so then if, if, if you actually aren't, then why don't you say that you aren't, it just, it it baffled my mind because I, yeah. I, I guess I, I guess I haven't Yeah. Thought of such

Jeff Jarvis (01:30:25):
In those terms. Worse than Elon Musk. Elon Musk is just as bad if not worse, but it shows you where they are and it again tells us why we don't wanna be in a position where that's controlled. And what I love about the fed averse is that yeah, true socials over there in the, the swamp, but it can be ignored, but can choose to ignore it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which is a different way to go when you have one singular platform and you allow it there, then that's what you're saying your platform stands for.

Ant Pruitt (01:30:53):
And let me be clear, I would've liked to, to hear best say, nah, this is not allowed. That, that, that's, I I, that's, that's where I stand. But what I'm saying is, I, I think I can get where he was coming from in that particular interview at the

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:09):
Time, being very generous. Yeah. <laugh>, he was trying to, I think, I think it was, it was a business decision. I think you're right there. But he was trying to prevaricate

Ant Pruitt (01:31:18):
Prevaricate. There's a 21 there.

Jason Howell (01:31:20):
It is. That's a good use of,

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:22):
It was, it was, he was trying to prevaricate for the sake of the musket Rogan, Barry Weiss. Yeah. Glen Greenwald's of the world. And he was oddly trying not to offend them.

Jason Howell (01:31:37):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:38):
And that's a really weird standard to have.

Ant Pruitt (01:31:41):
Okay. Yeah. It, it's, it's, it's a, it is a battle with moderation and censorship. 

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:50):
So it's not censorship

Ant Pruitt (01:31:52):
To hear them tell, it isn't

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:53):
That, to hear them tell it it is. Right. But it's

Ant Pruitt (01:31:55):
Not, it's a battle between it's choice properly moderating content versus censoring somebody. Cuz none of them want to have an a, a censorship label on any of these platforms,

Jeff Jarvis (01:32:06):
I guess. But as Stacey says, I would be happy to have the garden party that is censored, especially since I live Yeah. Around people I don't like very much. Right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:32:14):
Well, and there's there, I mean, the other thing is the weaponization of the phrase free speech also comes at the expense of objective truth at times. And that's a problem. And so, look, news organizations have a duty to the truth. And yes, we can slant it and we can, we can do, I mean, there is no such thing as, like, there are facts that I could put in my story, but I can certainly make the facts work in a way that has, you read the story with a slightly different slant, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And if you're uncritically reading it, you're just gonna walk away thinking like, how dare they? Or whatever. But I forgot where I was going with this again. <Laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (01:32:55):
I didn't, I what other, I didn't interrupt you and, and, and No, I know. See, I want that to be clear here. <Laugh>, I didn't do it. I'm

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:02):
My, you're super helpful for me cuz I, I'm like, I'm so like, woo, where was I going with this? So the point is, sorry. So the point is, as a major media organization, I don't think it's that hard to say no, I'm not going to create a platform for people whose opinions, not that I find objectionable. I mean, I do find them objectionable, but I find them actively harmful.

Jeff Jarvis (01:33:24):
Harmful, yeah. To

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:25):
Right. A subset of the population. That's a problem for me. I can't, I can't condone actual harm for people and I can report the truth in my, you know, I can report facts, I can find objective truth. But these other companies, these, the other platforms, the problem is when they promote harm and they don't promote the truth. I mean, they're, they're harmful too in when they promote harm and they promote the truth. But

Jeff Jarvis (01:33:57):
It's also the point you made. Lawyers don't see lot of Yeah. That it's manipulation. It's, it's an effort to manipulate a public to get people fired up and show yourself, man,

Ant Pruitt (01:34:08):
Our media. No, never.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:34:10):
I mean, I mean, we wei like, I don't mean to manipulate people and I'll state my bias right up front. I am pro-consumer in all of my dealings, right? So if I see a company that is like, you know, charging too much money for something or saying I can't deliver broadband at this rate because it would be prohibitively expensive for my business, I'm gonna be like no, here's, here's how it could be done. Or I think this is dodgy and I'll say my opinion, but I'm also very upfront about what my opinion is. I don't know. Again, no point. I'm just stop talking.

Jeff Jarvis (01:34:44):
<Laugh> <laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (01:34:46):
You love it when you speak.

Jeff Jarvis (01:34:48):
Yes, indeed.

Jason Howell (01:34:49):
Ha Has anyone here used Blue Sky with any,

Jeff Jarvis (01:34:54):
I can't get in yet.

Jason Howell (01:34:55):
No. Because I know that they've opened up, you've been in by now, they've, they've opened up rights. All the Apple or to some people I guess. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't used it either. Mic.

Jeff Jarvis (01:35:06):
It'd be easier to try it.

Jason Howell (01:35:07):
Micah actually did give me an, an invite into it. The problem is it's only iOS. Right? There's no Android version of it. Lovely. Right now it's like, okay, that's awesome, but I can't do anything with it right now. So it's,

Jeff Jarvis (01:35:25):
Yeah, I'm dying to try it. Because I think, I think Jay Graber, who's the head of it, you know, makes some good points. We're not trying to compete with Activity Pub, but let more flowers bloom and that they're gonna allow some things. And I think that competition is gonna be good, even if, even if it, if it you don't use it. If it'll make people jealous on activity pub and vice versa and both will rise, I think. Hmm. That was a very Stacy comment in a way.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:35:55):
Sorry. Like an <laugh> horizon. Completely not point. Oh God, what am I doing?

Jason Howell (01:36:01):
<Laugh> <laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:03):
Stacey, is that, is that hat a little tight?

Jason Howell (01:36:05):
<Laugh>? no,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:36:07):
I'm just, I apparently four o'clock y'all. That's,

Jason Howell (01:36:11):
That's what I saw. It's waffle clock. Waffle clock <laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:36:13):
It's time for waffles. Waffle, like

Jason Howell (01:36:16):
Sugar slope.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:36:18):

Jason Howell (01:36:20):
What about you, you put in this story here Jeff, well actually you put in this story that also as I read through it, realized you were interviewed for this story about, I admit that. I admitted that. Yeah. <laugh> no, that mastered on kind of checking in on Mastodon at this point. All I can say is like, I'm just not using any real social media with any regularity right now. So I'm probably not the right person to ask. But my Mastodon activity has gone way down, but so has my Twitter activity. Like I'm just not doing a whole lot of any of it. I'm curious to know where you all stand with, with masked on this. The great ma on

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:59):
Stacey, after last week, people were ready to yell at you and say, just use twit, do social, don't use this excuse of I don't know what c to be on. You're right there. Leo was provided a generously, a free and easy good server with people who love you. Just do twit social. Just do it Stacy. Just do it. Do it. Please.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:37:23):
<Laugh>, do it, do it. Stacy, she's

Jason Howell (01:37:26):
Like, she's

Jeff Jarvis (01:37:27):
Like, ish. I'm begging, I'm begging. Yep.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:37:28):

Jeff Jarvis (01:37:29):

Jason Howell (01:37:30):
<Laugh>, maybe.

Jeff Jarvis (01:37:31):
You know what that's like when I asked my wife something, she says, oh, it's fine. Fine. And maybe, yeah. Or not. Good words.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:37:37):
No, you know, Jeff, I got expensive shoes to shop for. I don't know if I can young buy <laugh>. I'm just, I'm working on, I I got my own stuff going on, man.

Jeff Jarvis (01:37:47):

Jason Howell (01:37:49):
Yeah. I, I I still barely use it. Now, but like Mr. Howell, it's, it's,

Ant Pruitt (01:37:55):
It's a general generality far as social that I'm not really using much of anything. And it's just, and if I am doing it, a lot of it's just automation. I keep seeing, I'll pop into our TWI social instance and I'll see stuff from Miss Adriana and I see it really, really late cuz I don't <laugh> I don't come in here. But I appreciate her sharing these, these interesting stories with us that we could potentially put on the show for Twi. Cuz she listens

Jeff Jarvis (01:38:23):
To Twitter. It's the one weakness, I think is that you miss stuff. I mean, I, I'm I'm on Mash Dawn every day. Absolutely. every morning I read, you know, on papers and news sites and I post stuff on both Twitter and Mask Don mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. I like the discussion on Mask. Don. The one thing I said to to Wilford who did the article is that the, I I miss an, I miss a good algorithm to show me what I missed. That's really what I want. That there was stuff overnight that I didn't see and I'm not gonna see. And that's the one thing that I wish for quote tweet would be convenient. Yeah. Better search. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Okay. Agree with those two things and I think they'll come. But I want to choose the algorithm. So what I'm ho what I'm wishing for mm-hmm.

<Affirmative> is for somebody to come along and offer a you know, perfectly by choice algorithm. There's a guy who does a feed, lemme see if I can find it off the bat, but I love that he does this. He goes, just goes through his own feed and says, here's stuff that he missed. And then he shares that in turn and it's good stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I like it a lot. So, so to think what happens is the halflife of a discussion, oh, here it is. David's alter algo ego. The, the address is call Russo. C a c o l a r u doubles o at underscore algo at law builders. He also does a bot that has top links then interest him. Right? So that kind of little service is good. That's only his feet. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, if I could use his for mine, I would love that. But so what happens is the halflife of a discussion is very, very short.

Ant Pruitt (01:40:03):

Jeff Jarvis (01:40:05):
Because of the algorithm and because of the way he works on Twitter, things can last for a day or two, which is good. I think it's bad if you're getting smashed.

Ant Pruitt (01:40:12):
Yeah. That's the thing. It it goes both ways

Jeff Jarvis (01:40:14):
Though, because by the ways Absolutely. But, but more people from different time zones can enter in and can add to a conversation. And I like that. And on, on ma Dawn, it either collects a lot or it disappears pretty quickly. And so that's why I miss things because I don't see people boosting stuff that they happen to see the seats. That to me is the main weakness in Mask Dawn. But I love it. I love where it's going. I had it when, when the whole CK thing came out, I went on and I speculated and I said, what I don't think anyone has done yet, done an activity ver pub version of, of CK Uhhuh <affirmative>. You know, I would love to see that kind of thing. Go

Ant Pruitt (01:40:51):
Ahead. What you're saying is, is is totally different from what I am practicing, if you will. When I go into, I immediately just go to notifications. I'm not even scrolling through reading anything else anymore. I, I cuz it just, I'm not there. And even with Twitter, I log on to Twitter and I just go to notifications cuz I don't even wanna see what's being posted out there anymore. Maybe in a, in a, in a couple weeks that'll change. Maybe in a month that'll change. But right now I just, cuz I know people are so pissed off and angry and, and I just get tired of reading through all of the it, it, it brings me down basically. And, and I don't want her do that. So I'll, if anything, when I pop in here, I just go to the notification column and if, and if the first couple things are actual messages to me, I'll try to acknowledge it. But most of the time it's just someone acknowledging that they saw one of my auto posts go out and then I'm out and I'm done with social media <laugh> for the day.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:42:00):
Yeah. I miss talking to people on Twitter. And having like little conversations with my Twitter friends. But I don't have 'em anymore. So I'm just on their Yeah. I've got auto social things, which by the way Jason, if you want to play around with it, I have IFT Auto generating from my stories tweets, but they have a summarized function that ties into Google Docs. So if you wanna play, create a Google Sheets tie in that trigger. When you put an article into Google Sheets for the rundown, it will actually generate a summary for you.

Ant Pruitt (01:42:38):
Oh wow. Little hacks. But

Stacey Higginbotham (01:42:41):
<Laugh>, that's, that was gonna be my thing of the week and maybe it should have been, but I, I just dropped it now she's trying to

Jason Howell (01:42:48):
Dropped to the end of the show,

Ant Pruitt (01:42:49):
Is what she's trying to do.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:42:50):
No, no. I was playing with it. So, so part of the reason I was having trouble forming Coherent thoughts was cuz I was also trying to make it work with my Google Sheets. But I cannot do eight things at one time cuz I just can't. Well, it is feasible and it would work. Chat

Jason Howell (01:43:04):
G P T Up might be able to help you do eight things at once. You could have like four jobs at once since what we learned earlier, but not

Stacey Higginbotham (01:43:11):
While I'm talking

Jason Howell (01:43:12):
At the same time. Yeah, true, true. I know that, I know

Ant Pruitt (01:43:16):
That one. See that makes me, that's cool that your, your if tool makes me think about Zapier. Cuz I use Zapier and Zapier used to be a sponsor here on the network, I think. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And they have a, it's a free service and I use it for, for part of my automation. But I got a, an email earlier today to where now if you're using Zapier for Twitter, you're gonna have to go to their paid plan of Zapier because changes to the Twitter API is making things a little bit more difficult, if you will.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:43:48):
Oh, you know what in Zapier has open AI chat, g PT three, and Dolly Integrations. Let's see if they have a good summary. One. I also have a Zapier account. 

Ant Pruitt (01:43:59):
That's exactly what, yeah. A lot of my stuff is run through that and Buffer. And I literally just in the mornings, I'll set some some things up and forget it. And so a lot of times the notifications that I do catch in the day, it takes me a minute to figure out what are, what are these people talking about <laugh>? I don't, yeah. I don't know what to post it. Oh yeah. Okay. Now I remember. Yeah. <laugh>.

Jason Howell (01:44:23):
Stacy, you mentioned that you aren't having as many conversations on Twitter as you used to. Is that a change that you have made or just a change like, like in how you're approaching Twitter? Or is that just you've noticed that since I don't know, the, the must

Stacey Higginbotham (01:44:40):
Or something? Yeah, the people I used to interact with are either not there or they're like me. They're just posting automated posts. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, you know, I, I shifted just yesterday. Yeah. I posted something that I historically, you know, would've where I was talking about like my lights going on at six in the morning and blinking for no apparent reason. And to me it was just a funny story, but I u I would like people used to share more of those that you could respond to and talk to them about and people Yeah. You know, talk to

Ant Pruitt (01:45:08):
Me a little. I used to also, and now it just doesn't,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:45:12):
It feels dirty. I don't wanna do it.

Ant Pruitt (01:45:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:45:15):
Yeah. It's like I'm going to the wrong dinner parties and I don't wanna be seen in these dinner parties.

Jason Howell (01:45:19):
Yeah, yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:45:21):
But at the same time, for my job, I do have to like maintain some sort of presence. Right. It's like

Ant Pruitt (01:45:28):
We're broadcast,

Jeff Jarvis (01:45:28):
Ask you this. Let me ask you this, Stacy and aunt and Jason, all of you. So npr went off Twitter because Musk finally pissed them off so much by calling them a government supported media. Right? Right. And they left and people applauded them and PBS went to, and, and CBC is going off too. On the one hand, I certainly agree with that. Don't, don't go to the bad dinner party. On the other hand, there's a lot of people still there. And if all the news organizations left Twitter, doesn't it get a lot worse for public discourse? Is there a responsibility for a news organization like NPR to stay, or a responsibility to go? What do you guys think?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:46:07):
Hmm. This is hard. 

Jeff Jarvis (01:46:09):
Not you as an individual, but a an organization like them. Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:46:13):
I think the, the poking of the stick, I mean to the, what they did to m what Twitter did to NPR in terms of lately <laugh>, I was like, yeah, you know what? NPR should leave. They should be like, yeah, I don't, I don't have to put up with your crap Twitter, you're nothing to me. And you know what? Good for them. So I, I tend to think that I'd probably leave Twitter if I didn't have a contractual obligation as part of my ad things to tweet thanks for them.

Jeff Jarvis (01:46:40):
Ah, ah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:46:41):
So I, you know, I do a, a tweet and we're writing it out of the contracts moving forward, but for the few months I have to be there and I have to do that. So I I will, but, and I clearly delineate them as sponsored messages. Y'all don't

Ant Pruitt (01:46:57):
Worry. Yeah, that's right.

Jeff Jarvis (01:46:58):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:46:59):
And I, you know, and I am truly grateful that these people are sponsoring the show, whatever. But I don't blame n PR and I think it was probably the right thing to do.

Jason Howell (01:47:09):
Yeah. I I would, I would absolutely agree. I think, I mean, w

Jeff Jarvis (01:47:15):

Jason Howell (01:47:16):
Who does NPR owe that, that allegiance to? I don't know. I think, I think as a company and as end, end as individuals, we have to, we have to make choices that line up with our values. When I think of npr, I think <laugh>, I think of, you know, strong values and I'm not surprised that, that they would choose to, to venture away. And I, I support that. I think that's a strong position to, to decide around,

Ant Pruitt (01:47:47):
You know, a again, Mr. Laporte has said quite openly, we need to stop using Twitter. We as in twit, but <laugh> at this point, we shouldn't because it, it, it, it works for us from a corporate standpoint to, to an extent anyway. So it, it doesn't make sense for us to stop using Twitter as twit tv. And now granted, I stop using Twitter. I, I don't think anybody would notice like that, but it, it, again, I'm not the same entity as Twitter. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know. Mm-Hmm.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:48:19):
<Affirmative>, of course, it's kind of like if you're IBM or Volkswagen, how long do you sell stuff to the Nazis. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know, man.

Ant Pruitt (01:48:25):
Yeah, yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (01:48:26):
Yeah. But how long do you

Stacey Higginbotham (01:48:28):
Keep? These people are not actively, I mean, they are, some of them are actually, are actively Nazis, but they're not totally putting 12 million people into camps. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which I mean, is a really low bar. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But yeah, I mean, because this is kind of, those are the things I think about. I'm like, oh, I just not wanna support this at all. Mm-Hmm.

Jeff Jarvis (01:48:48):
<Affirmative>. Well, I, I'm, I'm disgusted by Chris Bestest and, and CK and so I'm likely to say I'm never planning to use CK unless that changes. But, but I'm on Twitter still and Elon Musk's even worse, so.

Ant Pruitt (01:49:01):
Okay. I mean, he's still doing what he wants to do on, on his platform, you know, he's

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:06):
Awful. So if he just, he just verbally suspended a wired journalist for, for tween his own story about, about something involving Twitter, you know, so, free speech, my <inaudible>.

Ant Pruitt (01:49:16):
Wow. Really? Oh yeah, I see that.

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:18):
Yeah. Just happen. Yeah. Be

Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:19):
It. I mean, like, I don't wanna go to there anymore.

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:24):
<Laugh> you can't make me, but it's, but we, Stacy twi dot social's a very nice place. It

Jason Howell (01:49:32):
Is. Okay. It's cozy. Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:33):
But <laugh>, that's cozy. So

Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:36):
Om had to force me onto Twitter. Like, yeah, I joined forever ago, but I joined because Om was like, every single one of you needs to make Twitter accounts and get on it and start tweeting once a day. Like, it was part of my literal job. So I was

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:49):
Like, did you, did you whine before doing it

Jason Howell (01:49:50):
And tweet it once a day? She did.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:53):
I whined, but I got into it and enough people were there that it became fun. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I'm just not social. Yeah. I mean, you don't see me on anything social.

Jason Howell (01:50:03):

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:04):
<Laugh>, antisocial, Stacy.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:06):
I mean, yeah.

Jason Howell (01:50:08):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:08):
We go. I'm fun to talk to at a party if you like to talk about nerdy stuff, but that's about

Jason Howell (01:50:12):
It. <Laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:14):
It's the Bright Party.

Jason Howell (01:50:16):
Let's let's, let's change the mood of this party a little bit. <Laugh>. Let's, let's, let's crank it up a notch. How about this story about AI making a duet with Drake and the Weekend? Did you, did you all check this out? Wish, did

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:30):
You hear it play it still?

Jason Howell (01:50:32):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:32):
I don't think you could play it anymore. I,

Jason Howell (01:50:34):
Yeah. So the examples are down. I, I should have found, you know, of course they're it's

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:40):
On YouTube. Do you

Stacey Higginbotham (01:50:40):
Want me to sing?

Jason Howell (01:50:41):
We can't play it though. Know in the style of Drake we played it, it would probably be taken down. It's, it's so, so current. So what is the story here? Someone went on, on TikTok and actually used AI to create a duo of or a duet, sorry, of Drake and the weekend to artists who did not actually record this song together. That we're not gonna play. Cuz we'll probably get taken down if we do, but I don't know.

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:07):
But, but the, well, there's a question here. There's a, so a, a lawyer on, on on Masteron said, whoa, if they took it down. Cause they didn't wanna peeve Universal Music Group. Okay. I understand. If they took it down cuz they thought it was a copyright issue, it ain't,

Jason Howell (01:51:22):
It isn't a copyright issue. It's

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:24):
Fair use. It's, it's a considerable change. It's, you know, it's, it's

Jason Howell (01:51:30):
Well wait a minute. What? Okay, so, but, but that's, I think the, the question because in order to, in order to represent the weekend and Drake's likeness, you have to train a system on their voice.

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:43):
Well, that's the whole other question, right.

Jason Howell (01:51:45):
That, that's sampling. Right. I don't know what that is, but that's something, I

Stacey Higginbotham (01:51:49):
Mean, no, to train them. I mean, you could just let them listen. You could let them listen to the radio, the radio in Houston, and they would get Drake all day long. Yeah. They would

Jeff Jarvis (01:51:57):
<Laugh>. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:51:59):
But, but are we allowed? She knows that.

Jeff Jarvis (01:52:01):
Well, you're, well, what you're, what you're seeing now is Barry, I, I was at an event, some of our event last week, can Barry Diller is trying to say, we, we have to stop this. We have to stop them from, you know, training on our stuff. And newspapers are saying this and entertainment companies are saying this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well, but Stacy's exactly right. You're in public, you're out there. It's a really dangerous thing for an enlightened society to say you're not allowed to know that. You can't remember that. You can't be inspired by that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I, I I think and, and we already have no, there's a different way to do that. Reddit just announced that they're gonna charge their api mainly because they know that these places are scraping them like crazy. They wanna make some money on it.

Jason Howell (01:52:39):
Right? Right.

Jeff Jarvis (01:52:39):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I think that's too bad for society and for researchers that they're not gonna get to this API cuz it's really valuable. But okay, it's their company. They can do what they want. But courts so far and, and, and the federal government so far has said that the product of AI is not copyrightable. So if it's not copyrightable, how is it a copyright violation in a sense too? It's a really interesting, a copyright is just outmoded as hell and this is poking holes in it in ways that's gonna take years to go through the courts on.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:13):
So let me ask, because there you have a right, you have a right to your likeness. Right. And I'm trying to think of what that's called. That's

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:24):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:24):
Might be called a Right to your Likeness. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:26):
Think it's it's called

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:26):
That Yes. Writes to your own for your name and likeness, right? Yes. Yep. Right. Personality rights by impersonating. So instead of copyright d Drake could say, this clearly sounds like me and is an impersonation.

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:39):
That's a better case. You're right.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:41):
Yep. And that, that's a, that's a legal argument that's been made

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:44):
For, but what about cover bands? Yeah. Yeah. That, that was my gonna be my question too. Okay. Drake is not the only person that

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:52):

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:52):
Sounds Drake. You should hear my Springsteen invitation, you know. Oh gosh.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:53:56):
Oh God. If you play in a cover band publicly, do you license, there is a performance license for the for

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:05):
The song. For the song. You're the, the, the, the, the, the, the, okay. Who owns the, the, the, the lyrics or the music, but not for sounding like Springsteen. And if you made up a song

Stacey Higginbotham (01:54:17):
Of cover bands,

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:19):
If you completely made up a song that would be in the style of Springsteen long before ai, you can do that. Yeah. Now there could be a fraudulent thing here where you're, but, but it wasn't a fraudulent, it said this is ai, this made it up.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:54:32):
So here's a lawyer.

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:35):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:54:35):
Could always talking about tribute acts versus covers. They are trading off the name Brandon Images. So let's look at the case law. Oh, as an example. So case law, there is case law in this 2010 Universal Lawyers for Universal Music in Swedens now legal notices to more than 15 ABA tribute acts, <laugh> and, and to stop trading off the name aba. Many of them were forced to change their names or risk being su sued. So there is

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:03):

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:03):
Precedent to go against tribute bans if someone really wants to. And seems to be based off of

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:12):
Like this, a

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:12):
Likelihood of confusion between the acts. So, so there, the likelihood of co so the legal test, does the original act possess a commercial interest in their identity? If your Drake Yes. Has a tribute act used some of the original ACT's identity without permission? Yes. Has the Tribute Act created some sort of damage? I mean, I don't know.

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:36):
Maybe there's also the fair use, there's fair use, which is Lawrence says is nothing but the right to hire a lawyer. But if things are changed enough, and the thing about this case was it's not a song they ever sang.

Jason Howell (01:55:51):
Right? Yeah. It's not a song that they're the

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:53):
Made up song. It's

Jason Howell (01:55:54):
Yes. That's so interesting. Yeah. But you're not

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:57):
Stealing the music, you're not stealing the lyrics. You're being open about saying, this is AI made this up. These guys haven't sung together in this format. Now it could get, it could get copying, you know, full people, but did he say it? Oh yeah, he said it was ai. He said it was ai.

Jason Howell (01:56:12):
Oh, he did. He disclosed that it was ai. He posted this is AI of Drake and the Weekend, if he had posted this and not mentioned their names, would that absolve in any way, you know what I mean? Like labeling it as and, and like, I think it was even, I think it was even on Spotify. And they ended up removing it from Spotify. But there I could see some real, you know, kind of lines being crossed where, you know, this is a song Drake the Weekend. Meanwhile, neither of them actually had anything to do with it. If there's money being generated off of this, it's certainly not going to them. Maybe in the future it will, because these are things that are getting figured out right

Jeff Jarvis (01:56:55):
Now. That's where this is fascinating.

Jason Howell (01:56:56):
That's where this is headed.

Jeff Jarvis (01:56:58):
I mean, how many people have been inspired by Shakespeare and Shakespeare doesn't get a dive anymore. Right. You know, and it's okay. Obviously that's copyright time. I know, I know, I know. <Laugh> <laugh>. He's been dead for poor Bill. All of Money Haven Century have

Jason Howell (01:57:14):
Millennium. Yeah. I feel so bad for Shakespeare.

Jeff Jarvis (01:57:17):
Yeah. <laugh>. Well, well actually, actually, oh, oh, get me going. I just got a book here. I just got a new book, book The Bald in Library

Jason Howell (01:57:26):
About the, the money owed to Shakespeare by

Jeff Jarvis (01:57:28):
First Folio. And the reason this is interesting is because there were so many pirated bad versions of Shakespeare out there that when he died, two of his friends from stage said, we've gotta put together the authoritative Shakespeare cuz it sucks what's out there. And in, in my book and the Gut parenthesis out in June, available for pre-order now I quote the Bad, I think it's the bad bad Hamlet, I think it is hilarious that got out there. So they came and they said, we're gonna, we're gonna create the definitive Shakespeare because it matters. Shakespeare's name was being used on, on collections of poems he had nothing to do with. And he said, no, don't do that. And this is all before there were laws around this. So Yeah, Stacey, you're right like this, it is real. It matters, but this pushes it in fascinating ways.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:19):
Oh yeah. And I think, I mean, you can find the, the version on YouTube, I think it's really compelling until they hit the falsettos for Drake. Yeah. And the weekend is fine.

Jason Howell (01:58:29):
Yeah. I mean, it doesn't, it's by no means a perfect, you know, sounding song. It totally has that kind of, that kind of dusty AI quality to it. But, but it, but what it reminds me of is, I think it was on this show last week when I mentioned I was away on vacation and I thought about like, in the future, are we gonna ask, you know, an AI to create the movie we watched tonight? And it's kind of the same with music, right? Like, which has been another thing that I've thought about. If I, if I want to, you know, at a certain point with ai, create a new Underworld album. There's, you know, x number of underworld albums that exist to, to learn from. Like, I imagine it might be possible to hear an Well that's

Jeff Jarvis (01:59:14):
Interesting, Jason. Even if you look at the Spotify and it creates a Madonna radio. It's using Madonna's name with music that isn't Madonna's, that's like Madonna. And if you like Madonna, you'll like this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It's kind of the same.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:30):
No, it is not. Because all the Madonna songs that are on there clearly labeled Madonna, she gets money and so does everybody else who's part of that playlist.

Jeff Jarvis (01:59:37):
They could do the whole playlist without Madonna, but still use her name to say this is cheap. Let's say, let's say Madonna refused to be on Spotify, but they created a

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:45):
Playlist. Oh no. They've done that in the past. Yeah, they have with the

Jeff Jarvis (01:59:49):
Who was, but Taylor, Taylor Swift.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:50):
Right. Let's, let's say Taylor didn't wanna be on Spotify. Right?

Jeff Jarvis (01:59:52):
Right. She didn't wanna be on

Jason Howell (01:59:54):
No. Is

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:54):

Jeff Jarvis (01:59:56):
Both? Yeah. Beyonce

Jason Howell (01:59:57):
Won a title. That's right.

Jeff Jarvis (01:59:59):
Exclusive of course, with

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:02):
Jay-Z. Running for that man. <Laugh> <laugh>. All right.

Jason Howell (02:00:06):
I know, I find this stuff in. Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:07):
It's gonna be, it's gonna be fascinating to watch. Yeah, absolutely. Fascinating to watch.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:11):
Absolutely. You know what I found fascinating

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:12):
To watch What what the

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:14):
Video of a robot sorting trash. Was it a ah,

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:17):
You like that one? Wasn't that

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:19):
Cool? The there line 38? I just, I mean there's nothing much really to say here except for I could have watched this all day long. <Laugh> Well, goo

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:26):
Google released a couple things like this. This is one of them where they're, it's not just AI with text and images and music, it's obviously also robotics and,

Jason Howell (02:00:38):
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. This goes,

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:39):
It's a controlled environment. Well scroll and look at the, look at this classroom where they have a bunch of 'em doing at once. Keep going. I think.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:48):
Oh, I see it

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:50):
A little lower. No, not a little lower. A

Jason Howell (02:00:51):
Little bit lower.

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:53):
Little lower. No, no, no. Little there you go. So there's the laboratory where <laugh>, all of the robots are sorting all the trash.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:03):
What would be cool is if they showed like a new piece of trash coming in one robot, figuring out where it was going, get scratches on it, <laugh>, and then No. And then immediately all the other robots know what to do with it. That is the true power

Jeff Jarvis (02:01:18):
Of this sort of thing. Ooh. Yeah. So neural network,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:23):
I mean, know if it's a, I mean it's a network. I don't,

Jeff Jarvis (02:01:27):
Isn't this cool though?

Jason Howell (02:01:28):
It's a pretty adorable,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:29):
I thought it was really cool. That's why <laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (02:01:30):
And there are human means who are now employed to do this work. It is not pleasant work. It smells, yeah. It's important for the environment to get it done. To, to your point earlier, aunt about thecut work. This is the scutwork you want machines to do.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:44):
Yeah. I wanna hand my trash. Like sometimes when you get to a place and they, you see all the, like, I remember going to the offices at Gig Home way back in the day cuz it was in California. And I would just stand there at the kitchen <laugh>. And

Jeff Jarvis (02:01:58):
I'm just, which, what do I do? Which bin does this go in? <Laugh>? Yeah. Is this blue or green? Oh no. Yeah, it could be a challenge. It's black. It's, geez. Yeah, I still, it's now you gotta a compost and all that. Oh my lord. I still struggle with it. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:14):
It gets easier. But one day

Jeff Jarvis (02:02:17):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:17):
All right. That's pretty,

Jeff Jarvis (02:02:19):
That was my, it's a cute robot I have to say. It looks like it's ki cute robot. Oh, okay. I'll put that over there. It's dainty, right? It's <laugh>. It's kind of dainty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I really don't want. Which is very endearing about it. I, when as I watched those videos, I'm like, I like that robot. It really wants to get its job right. He really wants to do the right thing. We have robot empathy Jason <laugh>. Yes. Unbelievable. Apparently I do. Should we do a change log? A minimal change log? Because there's really not much in here. Can I suggest, can I suggest first one Uhhuh little TikTok corner? Oh yeah. Stacy's Honor. I wanna hear about this. Whether this was, this supposed have been huge news. Huge news.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:57):
It was huge news on Reddit. Okay, y'all <laugh>, go on <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:01):
Yes. Go for it. So I'm going through TikTok and here's a video of a ferry run a ground off Brain Bay Bridge Island. And the audio really is the announcer on the ship saying abandoned ship.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:19):
Yeah. A friend of mine lives down there. They're like, it was loud. It was annoying. It was also hilarious.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:24):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:26):
Yes. Walla Walla, which is one of our ferries, ran a ground.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:40):
What? Where I expected to see people doing dives on Yeah. <Laugh>. What? No,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:47):
They, they got so they, they, the passengers were taken off via the fast ferry system. So they, they, yeah, they're all safe. They spent, I mean, some of them spent like nine hours on the boat.

Jeff Jarvis (02:04:00):
Oh no. Really? The next day. Wow.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:04:02):
To get their cars. Yeah. Cause what was low tide and they, they couldn't get the boat out and then they had to get other boats in. But those boats had to wait for there to be enough Tide. And also they had to like, there's a shortage. This is a lack of infrastructure funding. There's a shortage of available boats in the Washington State area.

Jeff Jarvis (02:04:22):
It's all better than Bridges. I would say <laugh> all worth the price. <Laugh> <laugh>. Well

Stacey Higginbotham (02:04:27):
The privilege, I mean the beverage en route's long. It's an hour long boat ride. So that's not a bridge. That's not a bridge worthy span.

Jeff Jarvis (02:04:34):
Yeah. Alright, thank you for that. I, now you can go to the change.

Jason Howell (02:04:37):
Excellent. Thank you for the TikTok Corner. And now it's time for the change log,

Jeff Jarvis (02:04:42):
The Google change log.

Jason Howell (02:04:47):
Not much of a change log this week. Starting, but, but you know, we got four things in here. So it, you know, it qualifies at least GoogleFi now known as GoogleFi Wireless, apparently getting a redesign of the app. Why do they do this?

Jeff Jarvis (02:05:06):
Renaming everything.

Jason Howell (02:05:08):
Google cannot help itself. Google gets bored of its names and has to rename them and then when it gets bored even further, it has to kill them. I mean, it's just, it's weird. But you're right.

Ant Pruitt (02:05:19):
Pichai needs to fix that. He could easily fix that. He's the c e o. Hey, stop this with this renaming crap people

Jeff Jarvis (02:05:26):
Dad Gummit. And what was he said before? You're the best Dad Gum? No. What were, what was the

Ant Pruitt (02:05:31):
<Laugh> the best Dad Gum search engine out here. Best

Jeff Jarvis (02:05:35):
Dad. Gum it. Stop with these names. Listener.

Jason Howell (02:05:39):
So refer to it no longer as GoogleFi, no longer as Project Fi. That that was a while ago. It is now. Googlefi Wireless, the whole thing. If you don't say the whole thing, GoogleFi, I don't know what you're talking about. So keep that in. At least

Ant Pruitt (02:05:54):
Project Fi was the early days and it sounded like, Hey, this is new. We're working on Veta. It's, I get that. But going from GoogleFi to GoogleFi Wireless, I, I, I don't know, I guess they're, they don't want to confuse it with Right. The other infrastructure what is it? Google. Google Fiber stuff potentially, I guess.

Jason Howell (02:06:16):
Who know who the heck knows? Google just likes to change things. It's the Google way. What can we say? If you've racked up any Play store points, the play points that I think up until now, you could just use for like digital goods and stuff. Now Google is making it so that you can redeem your play points for actual physical goods. Things like shirts, socks, water bottles Instacart orders, DoorDash. So if you've been racking up those play points I think I have a decent amount racked up cuz I never, I never really spend them on, on apps or anything like that. So I think I just, same collect them. I don't

Jeff Jarvis (02:06:57):
Know. Where do I find Play Points? I don't know.

Ant Pruitt (02:07:00):
In the upper right on your phone,

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:02):
You underplay?

Jason Howell (02:07:03):
Yeah. In, in, in the Play store. If you, if you spend any money in the Play store, if you're renting videos, you know, renting movies or, all right.

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:11):
How many points do you apps have?

Jason Howell (02:07:13):
Oh boy. Probably not many, but I have

Ant Pruitt (02:07:16):

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:17):
Whoa. Wow.

Jason Howell (02:07:19):

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:19):
You can get 97.

Jason Howell (02:07:21):
You have, oh, wait a minute, I missed that. What was that, Jeff?

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:23):

Jason Howell (02:07:24):
397. I've, where

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:26):
Do you find these?

Jason Howell (02:07:27):
I have 350. But

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:28):
You open play. It'll show you in the search box and then go away.

Jason Howell (02:07:32):
Yeah, I have 350. You gotta, you gotta be quick, Stacy. So not much,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:37):
You know, maybe it's under my other account.

Ant Pruitt (02:07:40):
Possibly. Let's see. I don't know how I have 1600, but Sure.

Jason Howell (02:07:44):
Dang. You

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:45):
Get, we don't have any points.

Jason Howell (02:07:46):
Let's see here. Let's, let's let's explore what Anne to get. You could get $10 off one order of $25. A DoorDash <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (02:07:57):
That would be no

Jason Howell (02:07:58):
<Laugh>. You could get two months free grocery delivery at Instacart. You could get Google sunglasses. A Google recycled bottle. Yeah. With, with points left over. Yeah, but you scroll around. Keep working here. You gotta keep working to get the Dino socks. <Laugh>. Yeah, you're gonna, I

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:21):
Want the Dino socks.

Jason Howell (02:08:22):
You're gonna have to spend a little more to get those Dino socks. So Stacey, would you wear the Dino socks with expensive shoes?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:31):
Oh heck yeah. Yeah. I wear, yeah, <laugh>. Oh, I don't have any points. It says I don't. Oh. Which is weird because

Ant Pruitt (02:08:41):
I, how do I get that many points? I mean,

Jason Howell (02:08:43):
Yeah, that's a, that's a,

Ant Pruitt (02:08:44):
I I I buy, you know, I'll, I'll I'll pay for apps, but I don't think I pay for that many. She's hundred. I don't, I I'm looking at this little scale down here at the bottom too. It just,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:08:56):
Oh, you have to join to get play points. Y'all.

Ant Pruitt (02:08:59):
I don't even remember joining. Yeah,

Jason Howell (02:09:01):
You don't either. <Laugh> either <laugh>, apparently we did

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:06):

Jason Howell (02:09:07):
Weird, but we're joiners.

Ant Pruitt (02:09:08):
Look. Yeah, I don't know if you could see it or not. Just, just in case people

Ant Pruitt (02:09:15):
Jet, it's not gonna focus. No,

Jason Howell (02:09:18):
It's blurry,

Ant Pruitt (02:09:20):
But yeah. 1609 to be You

Jason Howell (02:09:23):
Sell some sunglasses, some like quality. See the,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:27):
If, if you go under your name, there is a Play Points icon in the menu that you can look in, see if you have Play Points too.

Jason Howell (02:09:35):

Ant Pruitt (02:09:36):
Yeah. I wanna look at like a transaction register to see what

Jason Howell (02:09:41):
A lot

Ant Pruitt (02:09:41):
O geez, accumulate that many.

Jason Howell (02:09:43):
Export a csb you

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:45):
Buy, you watch a lot of, maybe it's your YouTube subscription,

Ant Pruitt (02:09:48):
Huh? Maybe, maybe. Yeah, because I, I, I pay for premium every month as well as YouTube tv. I'm earning 1.2 point per dollar according to this screen.

Jason Howell (02:10:03):
1.2 points. Is that what you said? 1.2?

Ant Pruitt (02:10:05):
Yeah. Oh, okay. So according to this screen here and it says I'm a Gold member.

Jason Howell (02:10:11):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:13):
Oh yeah. They have a bronze something, something in gold. I saw that as options. And the more, the higher you are, the more points you earn on every purchase. It's like being an airline member.

Jason Howell (02:10:23):

Ant Pruitt (02:10:24):
Weekly prize. I get a gold pr a gold prize. Weekly prize. Apparently it done, it expires in one day. Win something every week. Let me hit this claim button. Oh, catch there. Yep. Let's see. There it is. Claim and tap to see what's inside. Win up to 200 Play points. I'm gonna tap it to see what's inside. It's thinking what? You just gave me seven play points to add to my 1600 and

Jason Howell (02:10:52):
Oh see you're getting for the Dino socks. I got it as well. I'm gonna tap to see what's inside for me too. What did I get? What did I get? What did I get? Six. You beat me by one and

Ant Pruitt (02:11:04):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:04):
That's that gold status. He's earning more points. Yeah.

Jason Howell (02:11:08):
<Laugh>. So

Ant Pruitt (02:11:09):
It's, I have 1,616 points.

Jason Howell (02:11:12):
Man, I'm only silver <laugh> and is gold.

Ant Pruitt (02:11:17):
I feel I, this is the first time I feel privileged. Josh <laugh> and

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:21):
I spend too much on shoes. You spend too much on the play store.

Jason Howell (02:11:24):
<Laugh>. Yep. <Laugh>. Soon you can buy shoes on the Play store. You never know with your play points.

Ant Pruitt (02:11:29):
That's crazy.

Jason Howell (02:11:31):
Nest thermostat gets matter support that, that a big deal. I guess Miss Stacy

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:38):
People were upset because all of it's only the most recent one. The cheapest nest, the 2020. I can't remember what version. Yeah. so if you have an older Nest, you're not getting Matter. We knew that was coming, but this is the first time it's official and people are sad. Oh, they do ironically have thread on many of those thermostats cuz Nest, Tony, Fidel and the Nest team were the ones who pushed the concept of the thread network. But such as life

Jason Howell (02:12:04):
Such is Life New Nest thermostat, at least in 2020 gets that matter. Support starting, well starting yesterday, so there you go.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:12:14):
Yeah. Starting history. It's rolling out over the next few weeks, so it may take a second.

Jason Howell (02:12:17):
Right, right. And I told you it was a short change log. Google Chat. If you're using the web interface, you get a full redesign web interface updated with material. You I feel like when I'm doing material, you updates. I'm really scraping the barrel <laugh> time for the theme. There you go. <Laugh>. Good enough. Alright. any last things before we get into picks and stuff?

Ant Pruitt (02:12:54):
We can't just jump into

Jason Howell (02:12:55):
Picks too. Doesn't matter. It's your call. It's democracy. I,

Ant Pruitt (02:12:59):
I thought that the sports story was interesting. Tell,

Jason Howell (02:13:03):
Tell us why the sports story. Which one is

Ant Pruitt (02:13:05):
That? I 64. Okay. You know, we, we talk about privacy and, and, and data harvesting and all of that. But the school that I love to hate, university of South Carolina football team, they were able to get a million dollar boost in ticket sales recently. Why? Because of the shopping site, New C was able to tap into the API and figure out, okay, what customers were buying when they were buying it and get the other information that says, you know what, let's reach out to them and see if we can get them to buy some more tickets for our games. And that's freaking brilliant. It's out there. But then you look at it from the consumer standpoint I'm sure a lot of people don't know that their data is being scraped like that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so I dug into it a little bit more and it's clearly in the terms of services, it's also in the privacy statement.

 But you can opt out of this stuff. They do allow you to opt out, but if you don't know about it <laugh>, you're not gonna opt out. So they don't re necessarily advertise this unless it's in an email. After you place your order, you get your little confirmation email, the most you'll see is at the bottom of it, Hey, if you don't wanna see any more messages about this order, just click here or two, manage your subscriptions or stuff like that. But I thought it was fascinating that somebody's besides Amazon is using all of this data to make money and that's a lot of money. Million dollars.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:42):
Spotify does it to promote artists that you listen to if they're coming in concert near you. Cuz they have that data.

Ant Pruitt (02:14:50):
Yes, they got it too. Me. Yep.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:51):
I mean, I mine stuff like that less, I don't know. How would you, I mean, cuz like if you're buying merchandise for a sports team and then you're told that they have tickets available or they're playing here, is that a, is that a okay use of your data or do you rather you would just rather not?

Ant Pruitt (02:15:13):
I rather that be something I find out on my own by searching a schedule and stuff like that. But again, we're in the bubble <laugh>, you know, we're not quote normal people. I don't, I don't want them, excuse me. Heck, a lot of times I don't even have stuff shipped to my house. You know, <laugh>, it depends on what it is. Cuz I don't, I don't want that data out there. So, okay. Hmm. Yeah. I'd rather just go to the website and look at the my favorite team schedule and see where they're gonna be on which day and look at my calendar and go from there. I don't, I don't need them reaching out to me because they connected to an api.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:52):
Okay. I kind of, I mean, I kind of like this. It is totally fair. I kind of appreciate the Spotify integration because for some of the less popular artists, like I know when and Swift is coming into town, but I may not when like Slave Cleaves is coming into town. Sometimes I, I kind of think it's a nice thing, but I can see, you know. Yeah, I can see your point too. <Laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (02:16:20):
Gary's to

Stacey Higginbotham (02:16:20):
Me that's like the least offensive use of my data <laugh> out

Ant Pruitt (02:16:24):
There. Yeah. Yeah. And that is fairly not as offensive. Gary z Gary's here in the discourse says, I think aunt is saying that people don't read terms of service docs. No, we don't. That's true. <Laugh>, we don't mm-hmm. <Affirmative> true. I just have no life. So every now and then I do read them <laugh>.

Jason Howell (02:16:43):
Ah, nothing like kicking back with some terms of service

Ant Pruitt (02:16:46):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:16:49):
What you do when you need to go to bed at night. Yes,

Ant Pruitt (02:16:51):
Exactly. It's cur some of the stuff is so curious though, because they'll, they'll have, okay, we, we will, we will collect your data, but we'll only collect this much and we won't share this pile of the data, but we will share this pile of the data, but only if you tell us not to. But then if you want us not to share, you need to go and click over here to open up this page. And then you scroll through that page and it's like another mismatch of, all right. Make sure you click here. And then it says, oh, wait a minute. Just shoot us an email. <Laugh> the, the opt out. And you, you never know if that email gets No. You know, you know, it's absolutely. So it's a lot of stuff like that in these, but again, I have no life. I'm sorry.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:35):
You know what aunt, you're gonna love this. I wrote a story, I think I put it on the website yesterday, maybe about medical privacy. And I looked at some creepy, creepy terms of service. You, you can go look at that and be like, Ooh. Yeah. Don't get a replacement knee with smart sensors in it.

Ant Pruitt (02:17:52):
Yikes. All

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:52):

Jason Howell (02:17:54):
All right. Is that your pick, Stacy, do you want that to be your pick? Because I know you <laugh> you unveiled your pick earlier. Do you have a pick?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:03):
Well, I, I have lots of things. Okay. I have so many things y'all. I got the new Sonos era, 300 speakers for my birthday.

Ant Pruitt (02:18:11):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:12):
I actually got them before my birthday, but my husband made me wait to open them until it's my

Ant Pruitt (02:18:17):
Birthday. <Laugh> <laugh>, he said clearly whining

Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:21):
And I, so couple things. One, I used the Sonos rebate program. I don't know if everybody has, like, I had some old, old Sonos gear sticking around, so I got 30% off just by putting in the serial number and promising to throw that away. And that was actually part of like, because I can't resell it anymore because Sonos now Bricks, their old, old gear. Right. I, I know exactly where this is coming from. Yeah. I'm giving you the full story, but if you have it and you're pissed at Sonos, so you're like, ah, I run to resell it. Well you could get 30% off of the new item. Yay. Nice. So they were still really expensive, but they sound amazing. And the downside I will say of this is I cannot, for the life of me figure out how to listen to Dolby Atmos fancy spatial audio music on my Sonos.

And Oh, it's just so, they sound great. They're designed to be like 3D sound. They're designed in this weird shape. I'm sure if you care about this sort of thing, you've seen them. But I have Amazon music, I, I subscribe to it so I could play with this and I just can't figure out how to listen only to that or to, and not that I want to, cuz there's not enough of it. But yeah, so setting these up was the most complicated thing I've ever had to do. Cause <laugh> I wanted to use because, because of iOS and Android issues. So there was that. And then tying the different music accounts to different voice services. We have broken technology because it took me like an hour to set everything up and I sort of knew what I was doing. So I will just say that that technology is broken and all of our integrations suck and the user experience is terrible, but the speakers sound great. <Laugh>, even if I'm not, listen,

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:14):
Beru, Grum, GRMP, smile,

Jason Howell (02:20:16):
<Laugh> after all that at the end of the day, isn't that what matters most out of a speaker from Sonos? How does this sound? I mean,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:20:23):
E yeah. Everybody in my family is very happy. They replaced my Nest audio speakers that were just terrible. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and, but the best of all the smart speakers cuz I really wanted a smart speaker. So if you have questions, let me know. I don't know if I'll write a review. Probably not. But that was my pick of the week. Nice. I'd make y'all listen to it. But

Jason Howell (02:20:45):
Yeah, we wouldn't, the

Stacey Higginbotham (02:20:47):
Full effect, you're the

Jason Howell (02:20:47):
Quality. Yeah. Yeah. It would, it wouldn't, it wouldn't work. <Laugh> wouldn't do a whole lot. It would still sound like a speaker on the other side of the room through the mic. Exactly. Thank you.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:20:59):
Transfer through my microphone. Yes,

Jason Howell (02:21:00):
Exactly right. The Sonos era 300. Jeff, what you got

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:07):
Are have to mention two things coming to the podcast. Neither of these is down on my bottom list, but okay. One is that Americans mostly believe the news they hear on podcasts of course, because it's done by wonderful people like us. We're reading off the news, so why wouldn't it be Right <laugh>. That was one, that's all I need to say about that. The other one I think it's worth noting is that the last two computer magazines Yeah. In print have died Maximum Pcbc and Mac Life Yeah. Are up in print. It was quite a long run. Almost half a century according to Technolog. But it's gone. I used to collect bite magazines. I didn't understand more than 85% of it <laugh>, but I loved it. Yeah. I used to write for PC magazine and, and all these magazines doing, you know, a review of the latest version of Word Star, that kind of stuff. But they're gone.

Jason Howell (02:22:07):
Fun. My

Stacey Higginbotham (02:22:08):
Mom wrote her thesis on Word Star.

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:11):
You did? Yeah. I loved Control H. Control H. Control H. Control H. Right. You know. Yeah. Oh,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:22:17):
Sound of My Childhood was the dot matrix printer printing off pages. Yeah.

Jason Howell (02:22:26):
Yeah. Oh, I know. I saw this article. We talked about it a little bit on TWIT this weekend. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Little bit of a tear. I mean, how does, you know, my, my computer magazines were more Commodore 64 related back in the late eighties. And then in the PC era, like late nineties, I remember a handful and I do mean a handful cause they were huge of computer shopper. And so yeah, <laugh> computer shopper. I don't know if you remember that thing was Oh

Ant Pruitt (02:22:56):

Jason Howell (02:22:57):
Gigantic comically large every single time. But yeah, that's kind of crazy to think like, I mean, the last two computer magazines, that's, that's an era, the end of an era. Sad. Yeah. And what you got?

Ant Pruitt (02:23:18):
All right. I had to fill mine in here. First one is Luma Touch, Luma Touch. I've spoken about them in the past. They've added a multi-cam support. And again, as I said earlier in the show with having a foldable device, an app like this will be pretty dcom cool. Because you could have all of your controls in the timeline down on one screen, and then the viewer up at the top with your source source files and, and your program files at the top. I that, that would be awesome. But anyway, they've added multi-cam support this week for an in-app purchase. I think it's like 20 bucks if that. And multi-cam support is for people that's not familiar with video editing as you can get all of your cameras shooting a scene or like just shooting our show here at TWiG different cameras.

And you can sync all of those cameras up in post and you can do your cuts in post, you know, because not everybody has a TriCaster like we do and can do the cuts the way Mr. Bonito is doing. But this way with Multicam support in your video editor, it allows you to do your cuts in post to make it look the way you want it to look. But yeah, that's Luma touch on iOS and Android <laugh>. And lastly, I just wanted to give a shout out to Mr. Tarell. He's a, a loyal listener of TWiG. You've been on my mind, sir. Thank you for all your support of us and haven't heard from you in a little bit. I hope you're doing okay. And so I wanted to say it publicly just in case you're listening.

Jason Howell (02:24:49):
Nice. Thank you, aunt. My pick is book I just finished. I think I'm pretty certain, I remember once upon a time being filling in for Leo and one of my picks being a book by the author Lisa Damour P PhD. She writes, she's written a lot of books about girls health and like young women that transition from being a girl into a woman. And, and I've just personally, I've found them incredibly helpful because I have two daughters and they, you know, my oldest daughter just turned 13 a couple of months ago. And so it's very, you know, it's any parents would, would know. It's, it's an interesting time and I'm loving, I'm loving where I'm at with our family and everything like that, but I also want to understand things that I might not know. And so Lisa Damour just writes really compelling books on the topic and I just finished a book by her called Under Pressure, confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety in Girls.

And it was just, it was fantastic. And I've just started another of her books that she wrote that she released, I think like a year, year and a half ago, called the Emotional Lives of Teenagers Raising, connected, capable and Compassionate Adolescence. And I'm just like, I'm, I'm in this like, mode of just being incredibly captivated by this and, you know, taking some of the things that I'm reading and trying to figure out how, how I talk with my daughter about different things better than maybe, you know, I would have had I not read these books. So any parents out there of children. Because I think the emotional lives of teenagers, that's, you know, that's not just targeted just at, at young girls is targeted all always

Stacey Higginbotham (02:26:40):
Have emotions

Jason Howell (02:26:40):
Too. Absolutely. And the, the book focus is heavily on that as well. You know, that's, that's equally as important. It's very important. So she's just a really great author and actually if you get her books on Audible, she reads them all. It's in her voice and cool. I just, I love it when authors do that. And especially when they're good at at doing that. And she's very good at it. So <laugh>, so there you go. Her her name is Lisa Damour PhD. Look for her books. She is very, very smart and learn a lot from her. Good

Ant Pruitt (02:27:14):

Jason Howell (02:27:15):
Yeah. But we have reached the end of this episode of This Week in Google. Always a lot of fun. Always appreciate the opportunity to fill in for Leo when Leo is out. So thanks to you three for welcoming back welcoming me back once again. And next week Leo will be sitting in his chair in this studio. So you'll have Leo back. So welcome Leo back when he gets here. <Laugh>. what do you wanna leave people with? Stacy, anything? Anything that you're working on that you wanna want to tease or No,

Ant Pruitt (02:27:50):
She's checking for the bird. Make sure it didn't hit the window.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:27:52):
No, the bird. I think <laugh> gone. I'm gonna take the plastic off the, you can see it's falling off. No. Stacy on I t I guess, I don't

Jason Howell (02:28:01):
Know. Okay. Stacy, on, I read

Stacey Higginbotham (02:28:03):
My story about smart pri read it about privacy. I think you guys sh should be aware that this is happening. Will

Jason Howell (02:28:09):
Smart? I've been ski drive privacy legislation. It should. That's the name of that article.

Ant Pruitt (02:28:14):
I skimmed over it. Ms. Stacy, just briefly in the paragraph about hipaa. Yeah, I, I it's that people do not quite understand that one of those PS stands for portability. So <laugh>. Yeah. Not, not privacy.

Jason Howell (02:28:28):
None of them. None of 'em stand for privacy. There's only one P,

Jeff Jarvis (02:28:33):
But does, does one of 'em stand for pre verification?

Ant Pruitt (02:28:36):
<Laugh> <laugh>, good

Jason Howell (02:28:38):
Point. After this episode. Absolutely. <laugh>. Most certainly. Thank you Stacy. Jeff, anything any final, final word of,

Jeff Jarvis (02:28:47):
Of course, you go to gutenberg where you will find discount links you could buy at cheap at, at both Bloomsbury as well as Blackwells, which is a UK bookstore, which ships in the US at great prices. I love them. You can buy the Guttenberg parenthesis now out to the end of June. And then if you scroll a little bit, my friend, since we talked about magazine's, Diane, earlier, the other book coming I have coming in November, is this brief book. Much cheaper, by the way, about the magazine as object an L to the magazine. Oh,

Jason Howell (02:29:19):
I love the cover. I was I love that cover. I was marveling at the cover in as I was getting ready for the show at first. I was like, is that a magazine? No, that's a book about a magazine. That's brilliant. It looks great. Yeah. Congrats.

Ant Pruitt (02:29:32):

Jason Howell (02:29:33):
Yeah, well done. Thank you Jeff. Thank you. And always love getting to do a show with you. What do you wanna eat people with?

Ant Pruitt (02:29:40):
Hey, check out the show TWIT tv slash o p for Hez on Photography. Go over there and watch it. Learn something about cameras and photography and just photography conversations and news. Tell a friend and tell at least one enemy help grow this show. I appreciate it, <laugh>.

Jason Howell (02:30:00):
Excellent. Thank you, Anne. Always a pleasure. Thanks to Bonito, thanks to John. Thanks to Burke, everyone here in the studio making this show happen weekend and week out. Couldn't do it without you all. If you wanna find me, I'm at Jason Howell on Twitter, though not very active. Twit.Social/At Jason Howell. Amadon, though not very active, really. If you wanna find out what, what I'm doing, check out all about Andrew Android or this week or sorry tech News Weekly doing a that show tomorrow with Micah Sergeant twit TV slash tnw. As for this show, TWIT TV slash tg, we'll take you to the TWiG This Week in Google Show page where you can subscribe. And we do this show every Wednesday, 5:00 PM Eastern, 2:00 PM Pacific, 2100 utc. So if you wanna watch live, you certainly can. And you can participate in the chat room, you can participate in the Discord. If you are a Club Twit member, that's twit. If you wanna check out all of our shows with no ads, get access to that discord, and then a whole lot of extra bonus content that you don't get outside of the club. Really cool stuff.

Ant Pruitt (02:31:11):
Hey folks, go ahead and, and vote for the book for Miss Stacy's book club too. You know, all you club type members. Go in there and, and hit it. Hit up the book club channel and scroll up to the pin messages and you'll see our three books that we need to vote on because the meeting is in is June 29th. So go ahead and get your vote in. Votes will be closing on the 22nd I think. So. Appreciate you.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:31:36):
Who's winning?

Ant Pruitt (02:31:38):
It's a tide. Last time I looked with Mickey seven and was it the Terra foreman

Stacey Higginbotham (02:31:43):
Terraforms? I vote Terra Reforms,

Jason Howell (02:31:46):
But Tara former. So Tara Formers

Ant Pruitt (02:31:50):
<Laugh>. Well that may do it in right there.

Speaker 6 (02:31:52):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:31:54):
That may not May people. Yeah. May be like, no, we're done. Mac I you

Jason Howell (02:31:57):

Speaker 6 (02:31:58):
Declare it's not a democracy.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:00):
<Laugh>. Well, it is a demo. Well, I can't, no one talks currently if Dan and I aren't talking, they don't like the

Speaker 6 (02:32:06):
Book <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (02:32:07):
Currently Mickey seven is ahead by one, nine to eight.

Jason Howell (02:32:11):

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:13):
Can be How many times can I vote? Do you check that?

Ant Pruitt (02:32:16):
I do not check that, but I'm going hold you to some standards, <laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:22):
It's not that I wouldn't do that. Aunt

Ant Pruitt (02:32:24):

Jason Howell (02:32:25):
Get your votes in. If you are a Club TWI member make your voice heard and influence the direction of Stacy's book club. That's right. You've got the power. Thank you everybody for watching and listening. Always a lot of fun. And Leo and the Gang will see you next time on This Week in Google. Bye everybody.

Rod Pyle (02:32:47):
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle, editor-in-Chief of Ad Astra magazine. And each week I am joined with my co-host to bring you this week in space, the latest and greatest news from the Final Frontier. We talked to NASA, chief space scientists, engineers, educators, and artists. And sometimes we just shoot the breeze over what's hot and what's not in space, books and tv. And we do it all for you, our fellow true believers. So whether you're an armchair adventure or waiting for your turn to grab a slot in Elon's Mars Rocket, join us on this weekend space and be part of the greatest adventure of all time

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