This Week in Google 684, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for TWiG This Week in Google. Stacy, Jeff, and Ant are here and man, oh man, have we got news! Elon Musk says, Okay. Okay, I'll buy Twitter. I think it's all a clever ploy by the Delaware judge. We'll talk about the Supreme Court. There's a couple of cases on the docket that will affect Twitter and some new Google products as they get ready for a big event tomorrow. It's all coming up next on TWiG!

Leo Laporte (00:00:38):
This is TWiG, This Week in Google. Episode 684 recorded Wednesday, October 5th, 2022. Like a Shiny Tic Tac. This Week in Google is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Good sleep is the ultimate game changer and the pod is the ultimate sleep machine. Go to eightsleep.com/twig to check out the pod and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada, the UK, and select countries in the EU and Australia. And by Secure Works, are you ready for inevitable cyber threats? Secure works detect evolving adversaries and defends against them with a combination of security, analytics and threat intelligence directly from their own counter threat unit. Visit secureworks.com/twit to get a free trial of Taegis extended detection and response. Also referred to as XDR It's Time for TWiG. This Week in Google the show we cover the latest news from well mostly a lot less, I'll be honest with you.

Leo Laporte (00:01:42):
We're gonna try, we're gonna, we're gonna try our, not on my watch, we're gonna try our darnest. That's Stacy Higginbotham. Yay Stacey! Staceyoniot.com. You like how I worked the mic on that when I yelled at? Yay Stacy. I got way off, way off mic. Just like Adele Does. I like you were far away. Yeah, I'm doing the Adele thing. I watched her on TV and she goes, You know, someday. Hello. Always love you. That kind of thing. Yeah. You probably don't wanna be in the receiving end of a full Adele belt. No, I imagine it's overwhelming. That's a hell of a belt. Staceyoniot is her fabulous website. Get the newsletter there. It's free. Check the events and of course subscribe to the IOT podcast Stacy does with Kevin Toful. And I can guess what that's gonna be all about this week. I can guess, but we'll get to that in a moment. Then to my left, the Leonard Tow professor for journalistic innovation, the Jorgen Haba MA professor at a Craig Newmark graduate school of journalism at the City University of New York. Haba Mos Jo Haba Mo Brand new.

Jeff Jarvis (00:02:48):
I just

Leo Laporte (00:02:49):
Arrived today. Yeah. Is it journal?

Jeff Jarvis (00:02:51):
I know Cate on the De Politic. Yeah. So I have to know what this says. I really do. It arrives and then I finally discover the translation.

Leo Laporte (00:03:03):
Oh, nuts. But this is good. It be good for practicing your German. Yeah, it's good

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:07):
For your brain, basically. Look smart. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:03:09):
It's Michael who studied, he's like in German 4 now. Gets a German magazine called Der Fenster <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:16):
The window.

Leo Laporte (00:03:17):
The window into German land. It's really, it's fun. Oh yeah, it's a good way. Reading German's a good way to practice somebody who does not need to practice his photography. Mr. Hands on photography himself Ant Pruitt!

Ant Pruitt (00:03:31):
Oh, I definitely need to practice my photography.

Leo Laporte (00:03:33):
So that's how you stay good <laugh>. Not just get good how you stay. Good. I thought

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:38):
You were gonna have to practice your German

Leo Laporte (00:03:40):
Ant. I was like, wow. Do not practice your

Ant Pruitt (00:03:43):
German. Oh, I be, I'll be more than happy to practice German as long as it includes German cuisine.

Leo Laporte (00:03:48):
Does anybody here play chess?

Ant Pruitt (00:03:52):
I play. I'm not very good at it.

Leo Laporte (00:03:55):
Yeah, bad. Anybody following?

Jeff Jarvis (00:03:57):
I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the chess scandal. I can't fig, Does it really include ai butt plugs?

Ant Pruitt (00:04:04):
I was gonna say I heard something that's pretty

Leo Laporte (00:04:07):
Erotic about they can't figure out. So here's the thing there. I think we've mentioned this before, but now it's in the esteemed Wall Street Journal, so it must be true. There's a guy, a young kid, he's 19 named Hans Niemann. He's actually from the San Francisco Bay area via I think Holland, but he's grown up in the US. Wall Street Journal is now reporting on a study by chess.com. Actually, let me find the journal article here cuz this is not from the journal on a story from chess.com. chess.com is the number one online gaming site for chess players. I'm a member, it's a paid site. There's a free one, it's probably just as good called Li Chess, but L I C H E S. But chess.com is one of the biggest. There is a little bit of a conflict of interest here because they are about to acquire the world champion Magnus Carlson's site chess24.com or merge with it.

Leo Laporte (00:05:11):
So they're in a financial relationship with Magnus Carlson. This began when Magnus Carlson was playing young Hans in a St. Louis chess tournament called the Sink Field Cup. Very, very big time. Top Grand Master tournament was kind of an amazing thing for Hans Niemann, who has risen through the ranks and become grandmaster in a amazingly rapid way. Neiman who had the black pieces surprisingly defeated the world champion, who is not only much more highly rated, but of course the world champion. At which point Magnus Carlson, the world champion, withdrew from the tournament with the saying nothing but with the implication that Niemann had cheated. Then he played him another game later in which he resigned after one move Again, a symbolic resignation to say, I'm not gonna play this guy because this guy cheats. He finally did admit that that's what the problem was. chess.com did a big investigation.

Leo Laporte (00:06:14):
The way they investigate now is high. Here's the thing, none of this cheating has occurred in the past, but it was on the level of the, I think it was one of the Karpov world championship matches where his opponent said he's look, he's staring at me <laugh>. It was on that level. He gets up every move and it's making me nervous. Bobby Fisher famously said, These cameras, they're worrying and the Russians have put things in the lights to distract me. It was at that level. But now that computers can play better than any human life, literally you could put a computer on your Pixel 6 that will beat the best, will beat Magnus Carlson, 10 outta 10 times. The best players. Those computers now can be used effectively to cheat even at the highest levels. The problem is how you get the moves from the computer at the highest levels.

Leo Laporte (00:07:11):
Magnus Carlson, Hans Niemann, even a little help at a couple of critical junctures could make a huge difference. That's how tight these games are. How very, very good they are these players are. So you wouldn't have to be going to the bathroom every five moves to look at your phone. You could be just getting a signal from somebody, every one or two pointing at Right. Move the knight. And that might be enough to shift the whole game. Right? So there's been what. That Moe or Curly? So chess.com a couple of weeks ago, fired Niemann. They said, you can't play here anymore. Niemann had admitted when he was young, 12 and 16. He's a, oh, this is the other side of this. He's a Twitch streamer. So he is very well known and has a lot of fans in that community. A few he admitted when he was 12 and 16.

Leo Laporte (00:08:13):
He says, Young, I didn't know 16, he's three years older now. He said, Yeah, I cheated on some online games. I've never cheated over the board. Like in person chess.com had banned him in the past. They now have fully banned him from that site. And everybody said, Well why? And for a while, chess.com says, we're not gonna release this study. They finally did. And the Wall Street Journal has seen it. I guess they didn't release it publicly, but the journal has seen the internal report in which chess.com found that Neiman had likely cheated more than a hundred games. By the way, all of these online, they have no allegation they ever so far. So far. It's all online. It's all online.

Leo Laporte (00:08:52):
But there there's a lot, lot of statistics and there's back and forth. If you follow the chess subreddit on Reddit, you'll see there are fans of both that all the Grand Masters are now starting to weigh in. It's my opinion that it's pretty clear that Neiman was up to something. But the question was how did he cheat in the sing field Cup? How did he beat the best player in the world? And then, by the way, the other kind of smoking gun is after the game. He's doing an interview and he doesn't seem to understand the game at all. <laugh>, he's talking about his now analyzing the moves and he's wrong. It's like, no, well wouldn't <laugh>. So that's a little bit of a smoking gun. Yeah, he didn't even know what he was doing. And I talked about this before. They did a couple of things to the live stream. They live stream these live, live. And so you could have a confederate at home watching the live stream somehow getting information to you. Maybe a confederate sitting, There's a live audience and we as well sitting in a live audience going, tugging, Are you

Jeff Jarvis (00:09:56):
Gonna get, are you get to the speculation. I'm

Leo Laporte (00:09:59):
Getting there. I'm getting there. I'm almost there right now. Okay. Right. I'm so close. So sing Field Cup folks delayed the live feed by 15 minutes. They also took a long time to scan him for electronics. Now notice Neiman has bushy hair <laugh>, so it's possible he's concealing something up there. But then some were saying, well, in fact there is a well known chess cheating incident with a guy having something in his shoe that would vibrate in a code. Cause you, Cuz you can't

Jeff Jarvis (00:10:33):
Maxwell Smart.

Leo Laporte (00:10:34):
Yeah, you can't. I mean you could. And it has happened that people would go to the bathroom and look at their phone, but they're pretty, they don't let you have your, at this level, they don't let you have your phone and they keep an eye on you and so forth. So they scanned him with electronic scanners and stuff. They took a long time, like 15 minutes found nothing. He did not win the tournament by the way. He, he took the lead by beating Carlson but immediately declined after that. And this is the other kind of smoking gun is, that's the pattern of his career. He plays exceptionally well sometimes and somewhat poorly. He's not a bad player. He's a very, very good player without the aid of a computer even. But is he that good? Is he so good? Is he a world class player? Is he a top player? And I, it's my opinion now that he's cheating somehow we can't figure how. So this is where the butt plug comes in. They can't figure out exactly. Not

Jeff Jarvis (00:11:23):
Just butt plug but AI and plug. We have reached the apotheosis of all technology, moral panic and stories. There

Leo Laporte (00:11:31):
Needs to be a way to signal him for a story. And again, you don't have to signal him on every, I don't know if that's exactly moral panic, but think of the children. No, that's wrong. You don't have to, again, you don't have to cheat every move. You don't have to get the move from the computer every time. Just maybe a couple of times a game just at a critical juncture. You need to know. Right. And Neiman Carlson knowing he was gonna play Niemann, played a line he'd never had played before. So one of the things Grand masters do before at Tournament is they prepare for their opponent looking literally every game they've ever played to understand what openings they use. Carlson played an opening he'd never played before. Niemann was prepared not only for that opening, but found a novelty, which is very rare.

Leo Laporte (00:12:11):
He says, Oh yes, he was weird. I was studying that this morning. That's his excuse. Pretty clear he got a signal. But how we couldn't find anything in his hair. We couldn't find anything in his shoes where aware <laugh>, I don't think honestly that a vibrating butt plug. It'd be hard to hide your reaction to that. Right. So <laugh> of the opinion, he had a confederate. In fact, once they stopped the live stream and delayed it by 15 minutes, he didn't play as well. My, in fact, he tends to play much better whenever there's a live stream. My opinion, he had a Confederate who was somehow signaling him through a, But again, we don't know this. Somehow we have there has, and this is in Neiman's defense, no one's found the proof of this at all ever. He has a chip in

Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:01):
His head, A smoking plug,

Leo Laporte (00:13:02):
Smoking <laugh>. Whoa, I thought you choosing yourself. It's done. Anyway, I'm leading with that so we can defor defer. Talking about Elon, we've got a show title already. <laugh>,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:20):
We have so many exciting things. Google launched a bunch of devices, they're updated, they Google home thing, there's matter. There's so much to talk about. And there's

Leo Laporte (00:13:30):
Elon. We'll get to Elon a little bit, but the matter is now, I mean we'll get it Matter is now official. I I think it was you who debunked the notion that matter was gonna matter, Stacy.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:44):
Well, so I explained and if you scroll all the way down, we have a list of stories just to explain. But matter is not gonna be as exciting as everybody wants to be. It's

Leo Laporte (00:13:55):
A lower layer you sayings. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:13:58):
Five ways Matter will disappoint users at

Leo Laporte (00:14:00):
Launch. That's nice. <laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:03):
So that's the like you could, but it does matter and it matters because it is going to be a low layer of interoperability and anytime you have a layer of interoperability, that's good. Now would I like it to be a little bit higher by now? Yes. When they launched it back in 2019, what they were offering was pretty awesome. But it's

Leo Laporte (00:14:26):
Years, I have to apologize cause we kinda launched into this without any matter is a joint venture of Microsoft, Google, Apple, No, no. Who's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:37):
In Microsoft is not

Leo Laporte (00:14:38):
Involved. Microsoft's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:39):
Not involved. So matter what matter?

Leo Laporte (00:14:40):
Google, Apple, Zig b Z Wave,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:14:42):
Google. No, no. Here we go. Let's try again. <laugh> it is Google, Apple, Amazon, Samsung. Those are the big four. And then there's like 540 other companies on the chip side. On the other signify Nordic semiconductors, Silicon Labs, Infinian, all these companies. Microsoft is actually not a member

Leo Laporte (00:15:07):
Is xpi or Z Wave A member.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:09):
So the ZigBee Alliance Matter was created originally as project connected home over IP Project Chip. It was part of the Zigby Alliance

Leo Laporte (00:15:21):
Is one of the two best known protocols. SB is for

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:24):
Zigby is a wireless protocol for the Smart Home for Sea Wave is

Leo Laporte (00:15:27):
Another. This is all about a smart home home automation.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:15:31):
Yes. This is an interoperability protocol for the smart home. So the Zigby Alliance was like, well crap, we're gonna call this whole thing matter and ZIGBY isn't really part of matter because it's not. So we should change our name. So they now call themselves the Connectivity Standards Alliance. They still have Zigby under their umbrella, but Zigby and Z Wave, they won't go utterly away for a long time, but they are definitely on the back end.

Leo Laporte (00:16:00):
Does this replace

Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:02):
Two radio

Leo Laporte (00:16:02):
Particles? Zigb in we Z Wave?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:04):
Yes. Oh sort of. Okay. So instead of using something like Zigby or Z Wave, which are both low power, low data rate mesh networks in the home, you're gonna use Thread And Thread was actually created back in 2014 by Google, Samsung a couple other companies. And so Thread is now your low data rate mesh protocol for the smart home. And then wifi is gonna be everything else, anything with battery, et cetera. So you'll have those. And then Bluetooth is going to be how you provision your devices.

Leo Laporte (00:16:42):
So you'll do something like Bluetooth to communicate initially with a brand new device, get it set up, get it welcomed into the thread and wifi networks and from then on you can communicate with it.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:16:53):
And then you're gonna do that via QR code Matter's. Gonna make that super easy instead of having soft aps, I don't know if y'all remember sometimes you used to have, you would have a device that it would create its own wifi network and then your phone would be like, okay, they're like turn off your wifi on your phone and then connect to this extra special wifi network. That

Leo Laporte (00:17:12):
Would so

Stacey Higginbotham (00:17:13):
Hard. It was awful. That's

Leo Laporte (00:17:15):
All gonna, and by way how we still do it 99.9% of the time and this isn't taken over yet.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:17:20):
It isn't. So any matter device though, you're gonna get the matter device. And if you've ever used Home Kit or some of the newer devices where they're just like, hey, open the app, scan the QR code and it's like Boo, is this your wifi network into your password? You're like boo boo boo. And then it's like I found it. That's how

Leo Laporte (00:17:36):
Many manufacturers have attempted to get around this ridiculous setup. Amazon stores your wifi and passwords in your account and then when you get a new Amazon device it says it's okay if I happen to know a friend who knows a friend who knows how to log in. And you say, Oh okay. And it just gets on. Apple uses Subsonic sound to communicate from its Apple TV to the Apple devices. So there people understand the setup process is awful. And I guess the hope is maybe we can make this a standard process across all devices.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:18:13):
The set up process is gonna be easy. If you buy a matter device, getting it on your network is actually gonna work. It's gonna be good. So that's awesome. The other thing that's gonna be awesome is if you have a matter device, you're gonna be like, Oh, it doesn't matter if I live in a mad A or an Amazon Echo home system or a home stay home system's, same. It doesn't matter. It's all gonna work. Okay, so those are all gonna be great. Is this backward compatible Stacy, or is this only new devices? It depends. So afraid you're gonna say that uses, I know nothing can be easy.

Leo Laporte (00:18:47):
A lot of the Google stuff we have already has threatened it, right?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:18:51):
Yes. So things that have ZigBee radios and enough hardware and the manufacturer willing to update it can go into, It can be like retroactively.

Leo Laporte (00:19:02):
So Thread uses the same frequency as ZigBee did.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:05):
It uses the same IEE protocol. Okay, so the underlying wireless, it's 8 0 2 oh it's a standard 15.4. Okay. 8 0 2 point 15 four. Okay. Which is the same underlying standard of zigb. Okay. So basically it's the same radio. You just layer ZIGB or matter software on top of it

Leo Laporte (00:19:22):
Or

Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:23):
Thread

Leo Laporte (00:19:24):
In the OSI networking model, the seven layer cake that is networking you have. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:31):
So thread is

Leo Laporte (00:19:33):
We're we're about

Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:33):
Thread would be layer three, matter is layer five cuz it's at the application layer.

Leo Laporte (00:19:37):
Oh that's important. So thread is a standard just like zigby, it's the i e standard at the low level layer three and on top two layers up is an application protocol. And that's what that's, yeah, that's what matter is an application protocol. It's pretty high up the stack.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:19:57):
It's super high up in the stack. And what it is is it's basically, it's a data framework. So all that matter is going to do, this is how you should conceptualize it for the devices it supports. This version supports most devices, but it doesn't support things like small appliances. It doesn't support video. So your video doorbell or cameras are not part of this. But for the devices it supports, it's going to do things like, Hi, I'm a plug, I am on or I am off, Hi, I'm a light bulb. I'm on, I'm off. I'm this color, I'm dimmed, I am dimmed to this level, whatever. And all of that will be standard across no matter, any matter device can read and understand and talk to each other. That way

Leo Laporte (00:20:38):
You have a standard messaging protocol and a way of saying basically these are the things I understand and this is how you tell me me to do something. This is, yeah, I mean this is what object oriented programming is trying to solve by saying you build these black boxes and then you have established interface on how to query them. So if you're accept them and so forth

Stacey Higginbotham (00:21:01):
And if you're any normal human being, you're like, Oh my god Stacy, I don't care about wifi, but you do protocol and stats but you care

Leo Laporte (00:21:10):
Here, nothing works.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:21:11):
Right? Well here's what you should know as a consumer <laugh> today they're going to, So this week the CSA said Hey matter version one is now official in it's out. They also said that there are about 4,000 devices from our existing members that are actually already ready and certified because they've been doing all that work this summer. Other people can now start the certification process. So we are going to see matter devices instantly pretty much. So

Leo Laporte (00:21:44):
That's what the news is, is that this protocol is now in version one. Oh it's official. Yes. That's

Stacey Higginbotham (00:21:50):
The news version 1.0 that is our news. And you're gonna see things like Google this week also announced a bunch of devices and some of those devices in Amazon last week and it's devices, they announced things that were matter certified. You should also pay attention cuz not only from the digital assistance and your routers and those kind of things you'll be looking for is it matter certified? That means it can talk to all these devices. You should also look for in your routers and digital assistance, is it a thread border router? And what that will do is that is gonna let your thread devices and that's that low power sensors, all of those things talk to your wifi network. So that gets them back onto the wifi network and talking to all the other things that use wifi

Leo Laporte (00:22:38):
Does matter. So those are the two things you care security.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:22:41):
Yes, it does. I'm so glad you asked. It offers encryption <laugh>. So I love one of the really good things about Matter. I may be kind of pooing the advanced use cases, which it won't be good at right away, but it does, it's one of the first standards that offers basic security as part of it. So any matter device is gonna have encryption, it's going to require some sort of secure enclave and it's gonna require a certification process. So when you have a matter device and you bring it under your network, it checks back and it's like, hey, is this legit? And they'll have a certificate and the will go to the certificate authority and says Certificate authority. You'll say Yes it is. And it'll come back and it'll be like, Yes it is and you'll be sweet. So that kind of, Is this

Leo Laporte (00:23:26):
An improvement then over? So in other words, should I look for matter instead of say Apple Home case? Yes. Which we've recommended in the past. Yes. It's a somewhat of a guarantee of a, obviously it doesn't do everything, but of a certain level of security and capability and and more importantly interoperability.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:23:45):
And they took a lot of, many of the things that Apple has been focused on. So things like local control. Apple's always been way ahead of the game on that when compared to Google or Amazon. So they definitely push that. The QR code is actually how home kit devices get online. So they borrowed that from Apple. There's a lot inside matter that comes from Apple, which I think a lot of people will really appreciate.

Leo Laporte (00:24:12):
Scooter X has reminded me of this story this earlier this week that raio, which is the home automation sprinkler system, has stopped using Home Kit because home kit can't resolve this no response error that users are getting. So you know might say, Oh well Apple must really get this and be able to do it better than anyone. No, nobody. Nobody's really solved this problem.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:24:39):
Yeah. And Apple's home kit, I mean depending on when, because Home Kit went through a bunch of iterations, I don't know at the very beginning, y'all may not remember this, but you actually had to have an MFI certification and use special hardware. It was

Leo Laporte (00:24:51):
Expensive. It was very expensive. Painful. They eliminated that hardware requirement a few years ago. That was a big, they did step,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:24:59):
But they kind of brought some of that back. So part of the hardware was security in having a secure enclave on the device. And now you have that with these. So again, I mean

Leo Laporte (00:25:09):
Wrong, that does matter. Any what does matter for certification does not require a special chip set or anything like that?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:25:16):
Well you have to have, I mean have wifi or Well you have have

Leo Laporte (00:25:21):
To capabilities, you have to have a thread radio, wifi radio, Bluetooth, la

Stacey Higginbotham (00:25:25):
You have to have, and all the chip vendors are gonna offer Matter certified chips.

Leo Laporte (00:25:30):
So there will be a Qualcomm system on a chip that will give you the matter stack. Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:25:35):
I don't know if Qualcomm's participating at this level, but Nordic in Ion nxp, okay. Silicon Labs, I should mention that almost all of those companies have been sponsors of my show at some point in time. Here's a great, and some of them are current sponsors.

Leo Laporte (00:25:47):
Here's a great question from I our irc, we probably should have asked right at the beginning, what is the <laugh> problem matters? Trying to solve what questions matter the answer for

Stacey Higginbotham (00:26:02):
It's going to Best Buy and staring there and saying, Oh man, I want a smart plug and I have a Google Home. Not that I'm looking at all these things

Leo Laporte (00:26:13):
Today. Instead of plug, let's have, let's imagine a smart switch.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:26:18):
I I was, how about a thermostat or so

Leo Laporte (00:26:22):
Walks into a Home Depot and

Stacey Higginbotham (00:26:27):
They already, they're a home kit user. Let's say they're a home kit user and instead of looking for home kit stuff, now you can look for matter stuff and there's gonna be more of it because remember Home Kit was kind of a pain and you'll no longer if let's say you bought the right blinds, but now you're like, oh I want a thermostat. And then you're like, Oh I want this thermostat. Then you're like, does this work with my ecosystem? I don't know. So that's what it was solving. So it's solving interoperability, it's also solving a reliability issue because thread and having this high quality mesh network in the home hopefully is going to make things work a little bit better. And because a lot of these devices will have local control. If you have a device whose cloud connection dies, let's say you have a device that it's maker goes away for basic functionality, it will retain that because it is part of the matter because it's speaking that same data model and can still give those local commands. So that'll help there. And then security, having that level of security and certification, those are the problems it solves. Okay,

Leo Laporte (00:27:33):
Well we'll watch with interest of course Stacy really is our iot expert and as you can tell, it's gonna take ant expert to automate your home and it just

Stacey Higginbotham (00:27:44):
Ask won't the point, you won't need an expert eventually. I think you share

Leo Laporte (00:27:48):
Holidays

Jeff Jarvis (00:27:48):
Eventually is the

Leo Laporte (00:27:49):
Key important.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:27:50):
So I think this year for the holidays you'll see matter. You could get your in-laws or someone if you wanna get 'em the smart lights that they could control with the voice system, you could get them the voice speaker and then you could get the light bulbs and you'll know they'll just be easy to set up and work together.

Leo Laporte (00:28:09):
A huge step right there. So

Ant Pruitt (00:28:10):
This is solving stuff really soon. I thought you were saying that it's not gonna handle a lot of things right out the gate. So this solve a lot of the common stuff right now,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:28:21):
It'll look, it'll get you some devices up and running. If you're like me and you have 80 devices and you're gonna transfer a bunch of them over and you've got complex automations. No, I'm gonna break matter all this month

Leo Laporte (00:28:36):
<laugh>, Right.

Ant Pruitt (00:28:37):
Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (00:28:37):
So I think that the confusion has been a big market limit for a long time, since the beginning of mm-hmm <affirmative> of iot. Right? So if you were gonna predict market size, if you were gonna draw a chart, is it hockey sticky? Is it just, oh a little happier? How much of a difference does this make to the market?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:01):
Google in their thing on Monday when I talk to them about is the very first night,

Leo Laporte (00:29:07):
Sorry, I don't know what that was. It

Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:09):
Was a 53 billion market.

Leo Laporte (00:29:11):
I do it <laugh>

Stacey Higginbotham (00:29:15):
Go ahead. So I don't think it's hockey stick. Well maybe it is. Over the longer term what tends to happen is people buy a use case. So I think we'll see a lot of people buying connected lights or plugs that are now finally easy and then they'll be like, Oh I can totally do this and then they'll go out and buy more stuff. So also I think with the economic kind of current economic conditions, I think it's kind of hard to imagine, but I think you'll see people, maybe they show they'll have three devices and by the end of next year they're gonna have eight devices and that. So how long, I dunno if that's really stick,

Jeff Jarvis (00:29:55):
How long before you can be on the show and look back and say, I told you this was gonna be so easy your grandmother could do it.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:30:03):
Well I think that'll happen in a couple months.

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:07):
Really?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:30:08):
I really do. I think the use cases that your grandmother wants to do. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:13):
Yeah. Okay. Your point before, Yeah if you just wanna buy one thing for grandma. Okay,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:30:18):
Well even if you wanna I

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:20):
Win a tennis mean a chess tournament. So

Leo Laporte (00:30:23):
Hey, I didn't finish the chess thing by the way. Can we go back to that <laugh>? One more thing I forgot to mention. The US championship started today. In fact, round one is going on right now. Neiman is playing, he's about to win his first game, $262,000 at stake. And there is a lot of speculation around this and a lot of attention on this tournament. So that Han Neiman story is not over yet and the US championship is gonna be a very interesting couple. Can

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:55):
We hear 30 seconds of the commentary you

Leo Laporte (00:30:57):
Wanna hear how exciting it is? Go ahead. I

Jeff Jarvis (00:30:59):
Wanna hear how exciting this is.

Leo Laporte (00:31:00):
Let's just turn my me

Speaker 5 (00:31:01):
As well. The problem of course is this

Leo Laporte (00:31:04):
Is, yes, your Sarah

Speaker 5 (00:31:06):
Is so strong. Long

Leo Laporte (00:31:07):
Time I

Speaker 5 (00:31:07):
Can't get rid rid of by playing Bishop takes and if I take on

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:11):
It's golf without press

Speaker 5 (00:31:12):
This, I'm just not getting sufficient compensation anymore. So

Speaker 6 (00:31:16):
Perhaps a more practical approach is to take on F five and then go night and D four and try to break with that fine

Speaker 5 (00:31:22):
<laugh>. Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:23):
Fair. Okay. Mr. Jarvis

Leo Laporte (00:31:24):
<laugh>,

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:25):
I got it. I got all I needed. I

Leo Laporte (00:31:27):
Honestly, this is a very interesting cuz he is about to win his very first game. I mean the best way for Hans Neiman to prove everybody wrong is to not cheat and win the US championship and then everybody's just gonna have to eat their words.

Jeff Jarvis (00:31:41):
But how will they know whether he didn't cheat

Leo Laporte (00:31:43):
Or not? Well, right. I'm hoping it's the same place.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:31:45):
Cavity search.

Leo Laporte (00:31:47):
Cavity search. Yeah. Well you might not be joking actually, I don't know. Certainly,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:31:53):
You know what, you could run a wifi disruptor or something, you could just shut down the networks.

Leo Laporte (00:31:58):
Yeah, you gotta got, and you gotta have no live audience and no live stream. There are ways to absolutely prevent this and I, it's very interesting. There are ways you can after the game and analyze it to determine whether he played a human, believe it or not. That's a whole story for another.

Jeff Jarvis (00:32:19):
Well can you let me ask a different question. Can you find, you don't cheat, but you use AI to teach you new methods that no one kind of ever thought of before that. Is that how you've potentially find

Leo Laporte (00:32:33):
That's how all gram masters now do it. They do use a computer away from the board and they all do that now. They use in fact, it's really this man machine center like symbiosis for all the best players you know, always have with your super grand master, you have a entourage of two or three other lesser grand masters who work with you to train to develop new lines to analyze your opponent, patch

Jeff Jarvis (00:33:01):
On the back and bring you a towel,

Leo Laporte (00:33:02):
Stuff like that and right. Yeah. Now computers are very much part of that. And often on your team you'll have somebody who's a computer chess expert who is also working with you on this. So yeah, computers have become a big part of it, but in a positive way. I mean if you can channel the computer, you're gonna always win. But what's the point? Yeah, that's not fun. And it's one of the few human endeavors where a computer actually is a hundred percent better than humans. Just it's done. It's over. Same back go is the same checkers. Lot of games. Anyway, I'm watching way watching this with interest. So you can continue to,

Jeff Jarvis (00:33:43):
How do you know he's winning?

Leo Laporte (00:33:45):
The computer says he's got a 96.4% chance to

Jeff Jarvis (00:33:48):
Win. Okay. You're cheating. I see. I thought he knew by looking

Leo Laporte (00:33:53):
Actually I haven't really looked at it that hard. He's got a very strong, he's Neiman is black. He's got a very strong attack against white. Doesn't look like he has a material advantage. Well I guess he does. He has. He's up what they call the exchange. He's like a pawn up. But yeah, the computer says he has very little chance of losing and almost a hundred percent chance of winning. There's his move. That's what it looks like. It's so exciting when they make a look Mr. The Jarvis <laugh>. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (00:34:25):
Really interesting. I bring up,

Jeff Jarvis (00:34:28):
I got one more question. So in terms of the but plug <laugh> players potentially move more than one part or he keeps his hand on it until he

Leo Laporte (00:34:41):
Decides. Yeah, so it's what they call touch piece. So as soon as you touch a piece, you're required to move it. You can see. But

Jeff Jarvis (00:34:46):
Then can you move back? Can you?

Leo Laporte (00:34:48):
No. Hell no.

Jeff Jarvis (00:34:50):
So why does he hold his hand on it for a second?

Leo Laporte (00:34:52):
Oh yeah, he can move back but he now has to move that piece. Yes he can. You know what, it's kind of the way sometimes they do that. And if you were cheating you might do that as well to make it. That's what

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:01):
I'm saying. You

Leo Laporte (00:35:02):
Were really, you could you

Jeff Jarvis (00:35:03):
Thinking here's the choice. No, no the other way. Right?

Leo Laporte (00:35:05):
Yeah. That was some of the other thing, accusations where he seemed, so Carlson said he didn't, didn't seem like he was paying attention. <laugh> usually if somebody's beating me, they're working really hard to beat me. And he didn't seem like he was doing anything. He was just gotta sitting there. He's got a pretty strong game right now. He's kind of moving in on this one. So that's, it's exciting.

Ant Pruitt (00:35:26):
Well I don't like that statement of they look like they're working hard to beat me because

Leo Laporte (00:35:31):
Well, it's just as

Ant Pruitt (00:35:32):
The fact, it's just saying everybody mourns the same way.

Leo Laporte (00:35:35):
No, it's not like that. Because if your son's running in a track meet and the other guy not sweating, <laugh>, <affirmative> not working, he's a robot. I mean there is no way to cheat in the track meet. Well I guess there are, but yeah,

Ant Pruitt (00:35:50):
There are ways to cheat like PS and so forth. But some athletes they're just

Leo Laporte (00:35:56):
Ice warm cold. Yeah, no, we're not talking that. I mean there's estimated these guys in a four, three or four hour match, that's how long they play. Usually as long as six hours burn like 3000 calories and without moving, it's a lot of brain activity

Ant Pruitt (00:36:14):
Mentally taxing,

Leo Laporte (00:36:15):
Very mentally taxing. And this attack, which is gonna come down, each file is gonna be devastating for whites king. And that's all I could say about that.

Ant Pruitt (00:36:27):
To your credit sir, this is not the Sudoku you made us watch.

Leo Laporte (00:36:31):
Is this better than suggestion? Thank

Ant Pruitt (00:36:34):
You. Goodness. This is so much better than that. All

Leo Laporte (00:36:36):
Of this. It is. Yes it

Ant Pruitt (00:36:37):
Is. All of this

Leo Laporte (00:36:38):
Well played has simply been an attempt to avoid <laugh> the elephant in the room. But we're gonna take a break when we come back. Yes. It looks like Elon is buying Twitter. What the, You notice

Ant Pruitt (00:36:52):
I'm, I'm, I'm in mourn. I'm

Leo Laporte (00:36:54):
Wearing black again today. I'm wearing black. You wear black every week? Yeah. <laugh> a, there's a lot to say about this Tini. I'm just glad I got a good night's sleep last night. And you know why I did. Thanks to my eight sleep pod cover our sponsor eight sleep. Actually I've been sleeping since before they were sponsor. I've been sleeping on an eight sleep bed. Eight sleep brings you what you need, which is a good night's sleep. The pod I have the pod to pro cover, the pod three just came out. It's the ultimate sleep machine. You know this right? Consistent good sleep can help reduce the likelihood of serious health issues. It can reduce the risk of heart disease, lower your blood pressure. There's even some evidence that it reduces the risk of Alzheimer's. And yet 30% of us more almost a third struggle with sleep.

Leo Laporte (00:37:45):
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Leo Laporte (00:38:35):
And actually that cooling brings you into deeper and deeper sleep. This is a biological fact. And then in the morning you can say, I wanna wake up at 8:00 AM or whatever, 7:00 AM and I wanted to warm up slightly to wake me up. You can even have a vibrate if you want. You can actually have a little bit of a silent alarm and I just wake up feeling great. Clinical data shows eight sleep users experience a 19% increase in recovery, up to 32% improvement in sleep quality, up to 34% more deep sleep. The deep sleep is the key. That's the sleep that that's actually doing the garbage collection. Cleaning up your brain with more deep sleep, you'll be confident your mind and body are moving through those. Restorative sleep stages is so vital for physical recovery, hormone regulation, mental clarity. The pod pro cover actually watches the temperature of the bedroom too.

Leo Laporte (00:39:27):
So when we were having that heat wave was really hot, I said it was great. It was like air conditioning in my bed. It was so cool and refreshing in the dead of winter. It just nice and cozy and warm. It does it exactly the way you want. I can't wait. I think I hope we will order this new pod to recover. You certainly should. It enables more accurate sleep and health tracking cuz it has double the amount of sensors. So it's even better. I don't know. I mean the pod is not magic, I get it, but it sure feels like it makes such a difference in how you sleep. Go to eight sleep. E I g ht. Spell it out. Eight sleep.com/twig. You will sleep cozy this fall. You'll also save $150 a checkout on the pod eight sleep. They currently ship in the US, Canada, the UK select countries in the EU and Australia. Eight sleep.com/twig. We love our eight sleep. Eight sleep.com/twig. Thank you. Eight sleep for an amazing night's sleep. I feel very, very good.

Leo Laporte (00:40:37):
Wow, what a melodrama is going on in. I almost, I hardly don't know where to begin. So yesterday news came that Elon Musk had sent a letter to Twitter to the Twitter board and they said to the judge saying, Okay, okay fine, I'll buy it. 54 20 a share. 44 billion people seem to act like, okay, that's it. It's a done deal. But it is pending the ending of the court trial, which was supposed to begin in a little couple of weeks. October 17th. The judge today said, I haven't heard anything yet. So we're gonna move ahead. There's some speculation. The reason Elon cried uncle is he's suppo. He's being deposed tomorrow. So he would be called to testify under oath tomorrow in a deposition. The other possible sword hanging over his head is the release of additional messages between Musk and others. There was a tran of messages released last week that were, I think, not so embarrassing for Elon, but pretty embarrassing for the

Jeff Jarvis (00:41:58):
Soul's friends,

Leo Laporte (00:41:59):
For the sick of fans like Jason Callaghan.

Jeff Jarvis (00:42:00):
Jason. Oh, it was perfect. I can't wait to get to that. It was just perfect.

Leo Laporte (00:42:05):
Poor guy. I love Jason. What? Poor guy. Poor guy. No,

Jeff Jarvis (00:42:08):
No, no. It was the essence of Jason.

Leo Laporte (00:42:12):
It was a little bit of a suck up this

Jeff Jarvis (00:42:14):
Week in Jason. Yeah, I don.

Leo Laporte (00:42:15):
Little bit of a suck. So first he volunteers. Now you remember one of the things after Elon made the bid, he scrambled and raised the money. He borrowed quite a bit against his Tesla stock. But even that though he is the richest man in the world, was not enough to cover the 44 billion Larry Ellison's. Not the richest man in the Mor world. He sure was. He is. He no longer isn't the Tata Tato guy? Oh, I think the Tata guy might have come on. I don't know. Tesla's stock is plummeted, but at the time he was the richest fan at

Jeff Jarvis (00:42:44):
The time. He was the richest guy.

Leo Laporte (00:42:45):
Sorry. But again, but that actually points out how little it means. It's not like Scrooge McDuck that he's got a swimming pool full of dollar bills. It's all tied up in Tesla stock and it's all because of this value Tesla stock. And incidentally, can I just say Elon did an amazing thing. SpaceX did amazing thing this morning. You watched that John? I know I did. 9:00 AM the Falcon Dragon crew. Five six went up five with four astronauts. One from Russia, one from Japan, two from the us including a petal luman. Yeah. The commander was a Native American born here in Petaluma. Went to Rancho Katata High down the road. Go. Yeah. Isn't that where your is kids went? It's Rancho Ka Hard heads. Yeah she was the commander. First Native American in space. That's awesome. Yeah, really It was a beautiful launch. Flawless. The booster landed on the do that

Jeff Jarvis (00:43:43):
Instead

Leo Laporte (00:43:43):
On the drone platform. Well, I gotta point out, SpaceX's success is not necessarily due to Elon. It might be despite Elon. There a number of SpaceX employees who say, I've said before, it's just a

Ant Pruitt (00:43:58):
Suspicious of something like SpaceX could be because Elon put the right people in place to make this stuff happen.

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:04):
You've been saying that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> regularly. And

Leo Laporte (00:44:09):
In any event well done. So, and I mentioned is, I just don't want to say Elon is just the most horrible person in the world. He's

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:17):
An Oh, I will

Leo Laporte (00:44:18):
<laugh>. Don't think he's horrible. I think he's like a lot of billionaires. He has. I

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:23):
Think his Ukraine trick last week was horrendous.

Leo Laporte (00:44:27):
It was horrendous. He said, Oh, they should just have a vote and Russia should get whatever it gets. And by the way the foreign minister of the Ukraine called him a bad word <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:41):
And Zelensky tweeted back at him. Mean is,

Leo Laporte (00:44:45):
And by the way, today the Russian said, Hey, good idea.

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:49):
Yeah, right.

Leo Laporte (00:44:50):
That's a great idea

Jeff Jarvis (00:44:51):
Eli. And I wonder is there per chance between that and he got kind of, so he not for reward. I'm not. I'm just asking, could you know? We know there's Saudi money in this deal. Could there be Russian money?

Leo Laporte (00:45:01):
Actually, I'm just asking. The biggest third party in this is the Saudi Sovereign Fund. Yes. Yes. As we know from the revealed text messages Larry Ellison dms him and says, I'm in, What do you want? 1,000,000,002? You tell me

Jeff Jarvis (00:45:17):
<laugh>. No, he said a billion. And Elon then said No, two

Leo Laporte (00:45:21):
<laugh> And Larry went along with it. Yeah Jason says, Jason Khan says, Hey, I'd like to be the ceo if you don't mind. I have some great ideas. And he fires off message after message about how Twitter should be run. And at the same time, and I got the email sends out emails to people saying, Hey, I'm building a group of people who will help Elon in this acquisition. We give 'em some money. Would you be interested? Elon <laugh> eventually is compelled to say, Can you knock it off? This is proving embarrassing to me. I didn't see anything really embarrassing from Elon. I was mostly the sick of fans kissing up to him. Jason eventually says, I'm carrying your sword, sir.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:05):
It was just awful. Just awful. The ultimate Jason <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:46:11):
You.

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:12):
You know what, Jason's not, Jason doesn't know how to be embarrassed. No. Won't

Leo Laporte (00:46:15):
Bother him. No. I love Jason. And he's always said that he was good friends with Elon. When I bought the Model X. He said, I'll get you at the head of the line. He didn't. But he knows Elon. He had a model Roadster. He knows Elon. Twitter, meanwhile has really been rocked by this whole thing. 700 employees have left two major executives were fired. The board,

Jeff Jarvis (00:46:41):
Major talent has left

Leo Laporte (00:46:42):
Major talent. The board is now very active in pursuing Elon, making him do it, including there's a big article about Brett Taylor, our guy Brett, we love Brett, who's the chairman of the board who is on the committee that is pursuing this litigation. The other shoe that might drop is additional messages, except it looks like Elon moved the important ones to signal,

Jeff Jarvis (00:47:10):
But said he wasn't using Signal for the deal. But they have one smoking gun, not plug showing that he was moving a conversation to Signal. Yeah. So they've got him there

Leo Laporte (00:47:22):
Too. The conversation they really want to know about is did he talk with the Twitter whistleblower, Peter Zco, before he whistled blue? In other words, did he maybe encourage him to do this? Apparently someone with an anonymous proton mail account, that's an encrypted email account on the same on May 6th, sent an email. He said, I am a former exec at Twitter. Leading teams directly involving trust and safety content moderation in the email the sender, Is it zko? We don't know. Suggests that Musk's team get in touch on another platform form through alternate secure means in order for this person to provide information about Twitter. It's not probative, but I think it's much. It's Peter Zco and that he did in fact approach Elon saying, I got something you might wanna know. This could also be a reason Elon might have said this. The guesses is are that Elon knew he was gonna lose. I don't know if that's the

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:34):
Case. Can I ask a question here? So lose would be defined as you must buy the company. Yeah. Is there also a definition of lose that says you were such a bad boy, Elon, You not only buy the company, you fork up another 5 billion to injured parties.

Leo Laporte (00:48:53):
I don't think so. Is

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:54):
There further punishment? No, I don't think lose Lose is just by it.

Leo Laporte (00:48:57):
I think lose is buy it. But along the way, two weeks,

Jeff Jarvis (00:48:59):
Weeks in Philadelphia,

Leo Laporte (00:49:00):
A lot of damage in discovery. And this happens again and again. This happened in Epic versus Apple where the discovery of all of this stuff pretrial is embarrassing as hell to these companies. Apple suffered a lot of reputational damage. They won the case against Epic, but they lost a lot of reputation because of the messages. We'll be quoting those messages for years to come. It just happens again and again and again. And I think already it's been somewhat of an embarrassment. But if messages between Zco and Musk before the whistle blowing showed up, that'd be bad anyway. For whatever reason, and it's, it's all 12 G chess, maybe <laugh> could be checkers, but for whatever reason Elon said, No, let's buy it now. His lawyers have still not apparently told the judge, At least the judge hadn't received that information. So she said, we're going to act as if we, The trial's still on for the 17th, so I'm not sure what's going on. The judge, right before the Musk letter did say Twitter could hunt for secret chats with Zco.

Ant Pruitt (00:50:20):
Do you things

Jeff Jarvis (00:50:22):
See, Go ahead, Ed. The

Ant Pruitt (00:50:23):
Regulators come in. What is it? The S

Jeff Jarvis (00:50:28):
Secs sec.

Ant Pruitt (00:50:28):
Yeah. Do you think we'll ever see any of them come in and say, Look here dude, you need to pay for these problems that you've created.

Leo Laporte (00:50:35):
Well, Musk I think is trying to, I, did he not go to appeal to the Supreme Court? <laugh> I think feel like he did over this issue of whether the SCC should be allowed to muzzle him. I think the Supreme Court rejected that. By the way. He, the s c is I think really should definitely get involved. I don't know what the current status of their investigations are.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:11):
Do you see any scenario

Leo Laporte (00:51:13):
Agree with him. Sorry,

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:15):
Which he doesn't, Is there any scenario in which he doesn't at the company?

Leo Laporte (00:51:18):
Oh, Abso. I mean, who in the hell knows who the what? Yeah. Well for one thing of the conditions of this letter was that the case be dropped.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:31):
But why would you drop it until such time as you,

Leo Laporte (00:51:35):
Well, Twitter should, I don't know who has, I guess Twitter has to contact the judge. The judge says, I haven't heard anything.

Jeff Jarvis (00:51:42):
Well, Twitter's statement was, as Mike Masick said, who I was with yesterday when all this happened. This was probably the most lawyered message in a year in which Twitter just said, we intend to close. Period.

Leo Laporte (00:51:59):
Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (00:52:00):
Period.

Leo Laporte (00:52:01):
That was it. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:52:01):
Yeah. Period.

Leo Laporte (00:52:03):
Love it. So the judge needs to get word that Twitter's dropping its lawsuit. But he's an Elon also suing. So both,

Jeff Jarvis (00:52:12):
That's right. There's a

Leo Laporte (00:52:13):
Countersuit. Both parties have to tell the judge that they're gonna drop the case. Apparently that has not happened. Well,

Jeff Jarvis (00:52:22):
Twitter would be a fool to do that until they know that the financing,

Leo Laporte (00:52:27):
Well that's the condition.

Jeff Jarvis (00:52:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Well that's that it's, It's a bit of chicken ne ain't it? Because I'm not gonna, I you first. No, you, you dropped the suit. No, you closed the deal. Well, no, I'm not closing the deal. Do you drop the suit? No, you dropped the suit. Mean that's, Is that where he a says simple ne game?

Leo Laporte (00:52:48):
My Masek says he thinks Elon will own Twitter. Let's go forward assuming he will and then it'll happen. Yeah, quickly. Okay. Now I know what you, Sorry Jeff. That question is <laugh>. I was gonna say, what do you think? So

Ant Pruitt (00:53:07):
I like Mr. Hogan's commentary.

Leo Laporte (00:53:08):
Yeah, let's go to that. Cause that was a great piece. So it won't happen overnight. It'll take a month or two to close. It's kind of unknown whether there might be regulatory approval and so forth. I don't know. It's just a purchase of a company. Elon's not in the social network business. So <laugh>, I guess there probably wouldn't be regulatory holdups. Right. Anyway, it's

Jeff Jarvis (00:53:38):
A kind of a rocket ship. Twitter

Leo Laporte (00:53:40):
It it'd be a kit. It'd be soon. It'd be within a month or two. So what happens? Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:53:47):
Well just someone right now. Oh, go on. No,

Leo Laporte (00:53:49):
No, no, no. I want to hear from you.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:53:51):
Well, no, I was just gonna say, I'm sure someone right now is trying to build something that could take a mass exodus from Twitter. Yes. I mean, I think happens.

Leo Laporte (00:53:59):
We're gonna show that in a minute.

Jeff Jarvis (00:54:02):
Gonna

Leo Laporte (00:54:02):
Talk about that.

Jeff Jarvis (00:54:03):
I was part of that conversation just yesterday.

Leo Laporte (00:54:05):
I think that's not the only one. But you're right. I'm sure that's one thing is, I mean, of course the minute Elon closes on Twitter, I would, I'm not gonna leave Twitter. Would you leave Twitter, Stacy if just cuz Elon closed on it.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:54:19):
Not right away. But I mean, I imagine, I think the way Elon ends up managing Twitter might make it a less hospitable place for someone like myself. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:54:31):
Might but might not. I

Stacey Higginbotham (00:54:33):
Just dunno. Right. And it, but and so I'm like, yeah, when that happens, I will. Exactly.

Leo Laporte (00:54:37):
That's my attitude. I'm gonna fine too. See what happens. Yours too

Ant Pruitt (00:54:40):
Would have to give me

Jeff Jarvis (00:54:41):
Andre Brock Jr. Sorry, go ahead.

Ant Pruitt (00:54:44):
No, I was saying he would have to give me a reason to leave. I know a lot of folks on Twitter right now are just throwing their hands up. It's like, Oh this, we can't let this happen. Blah, blah, blah blah. But what if he actually comes in and does a decent job of putting people in place and helping to curtail the crap fest that's happening inside of Twitter from you?

Stacey Higginbotham (00:55:05):
I don't think that's gonna happen.

Leo Laporte (00:55:07):
<laugh> Elon has a lot of ideas. He hasn't demonstrated much command of the space. He really understood

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:13):
The best case. The best case is that it's no worse than it is today. That is by far the

Leo Laporte (00:55:18):
Best case. Well, Chris Anderson,

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:20):
Everything else is done. The

Leo Laporte (00:55:21):
Guy

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:23):
Do it. Do in a snotty accent. Will you,

Leo Laporte (00:55:25):
The guy who founded Ted Talks, Chris No, he

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:28):
Didn't found them. He did

Leo Laporte (00:55:29):
Not found that. He did not find it. Cuz I know who founded it. Yes. Saul. Saul Warman, right. Warman way back when. Technology, entertainment design. But he currently runs Ted, right? Chris? Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:42):
So he, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:55:43):
So he tweeted, admits to all the searing, How does he talk? Very,

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:48):
Very Oxbridge.

Leo Laporte (00:55:50):
I'd like to offer prediction for how the Elon Mosque acquisition of Twitter will play out. First of

Jeff Jarvis (00:55:57):
All, you do that. I'm sorry,

Leo Laporte (00:55:58):
<laugh>. I think the deal will indeed go through now. No,

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:01):
I regret it. <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:56:03):
Backed by an impressive roster of co investors. Next, the company will end undo like,

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:09):
By the way, Saudi Arabia. But keep going.

Leo Laporte (00:56:12):
Well, but if you're gonna paint with that brush, a lot of Silicon Valleys, Oh

Jeff Jarvis (00:56:17):
There is

Leo Laporte (00:56:18):
With Saudi money. I mean I know this sovereigns fund is very powerful in Silicon Valley, which we should probably at some point talk about. So whatever impressive roster of co investors is unnecessarily, but okay, we'll say it <laugh>, but that's kind of the whole point of this piece. I think the company will undoubtedly experience a period of significant turmoil. Duh. Cuz like everybody's gonna quit. There's a lot of change ahead. Many won't like it, but here's the butt you're looking for, Stacy. It will gradually become clear that a lot of the changes are actually quite exciting. First of all, fears of all the content moderation being abandoned will prove unfounded. Instead, the algorithm will be adjusted to avoid giving so much amplification to political divisiveness. Actually, that sounds good to me. And he can't get rid of content moderation, whatever he says, because that would turn the place into a cesspool. But he said he'd invite Donald Trump back. That's

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:20):
Well right there.

Leo Laporte (00:57:23):
But the Donald will go back. I don't know. But if you're gonna downplay political divisiveness in fighting the head of the political divisive party is not the best way to do it. The debate that matters is not about who is on or off the platform. Anderson says, But what type of tweets get amplified? Some of that's in Twitter's control, but some of it's not. It's retweeting. Well, it's not. It's press coverage. A

Jeff Jarvis (00:57:45):
Lot of it's not.

Leo Laporte (00:57:46):
Yeah. If that can change everything changes, next steps will be put into place to verify all human Twitter accounts. Blue checks for all that process will lay the basis for those accounts to be used for, oh, get ready for this transactions. A allow WeChat using a, there we go Twitter coin. This is

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:07):
X. This is his dream that he's gonna be WeChat and he is gonna do what China does from the base of Twitter and how much do you have to invest to do

Leo Laporte (00:58:15):
That? Twitter says, Elon says he's gonna use Twitter to build an everything app called x. Buying Twitter is an accelerant. Using that space language to creating X the everything app. Mike, we'll talk about Mike Egan's explanation of what that X is in just a second. But let's finish Chris Anderson's lengthy tweet. For example, people might, by the way, could be a Twitter crypto coin or US dollars for example, people made. Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:44):
How old fashioned, you must

Leo Laporte (00:58:45):
Say. Yeah. How old fashioned.

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:47):
Oh

Leo Laporte (00:58:47):
My God. Well actually this makes more sense, this next paragraph. People may be offered paid subscriptions and receive usable tokens. So you pay them five bucks and they give you 500 Twitter dollars. This

Jeff Jarvis (00:58:59):
Could to be a

Leo Laporte (00:59:00):
Slam. This could bring the company significant

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:02):
Revenue. I second that size Stacy.

Leo Laporte (00:59:04):
Plus I don't need Monopoly money on my social networks. Yeah, but it is all the rage, isn't it?

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:11):
This

Leo Laporte (00:59:11):
Is such a, Although NFT sales have plummeted since the beginning of the year, they've just fallen off the map, which is tough for people who are holding those valuable moon birds. Monkeys. Monkeys.

Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:24):
Monkeys. Board

Leo Laporte (00:59:25):
Apes, Ford Apes,

Stacey Higginbotham (00:59:26):
Board apes. That's what it is.

Leo Laporte (00:59:28):
So this paid subscriptions for usable tokens could bring the company significant revenue plus get this, create its own economy on which goods and services could be transacted. The sheer scale of Twitter can rapidly bring this to critical mass

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:45):
<laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:59:46):
But get ready.

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:47):
That's facial expression. Stacy,

Leo Laporte (00:59:48):
We're not done. There's more

Jeff Jarvis (00:59:50):
Speak for me.

Leo Laporte (00:59:52):
But then wait, September there's more. September, 2023 growing numbers of people will be attracted to Twitter X. It will be far less prone to robo spam and algorithm fueled outrage. Magic. Well

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:08):
How? Yeah, magic. Exactly. Just

Leo Laporte (01:00:10):
It's gonna be no more.

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:12):
Cause web three cause

Leo Laporte (01:00:14):
Magic. Cause the chain instead it will offer a lot of new functionality. That could be, could be true. Elon can do that.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:21):
I don know we this

Leo Laporte (01:00:23):
This, Hold

Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:23):
On. Do you know how long

Leo Laporte (01:00:24):
This is the pain, The final bit? The, How do you pronounce that? Pay Pan P to Elon. Payon. P A E N. Pan Payon. There is plenty. Elon Musk can be legitimately criticized for his own use of Twitter can scheme Ill advised he can give the impression of being more politically than political than he is. And there's no question what

Jeff Jarvis (01:00:47):
Does that mean?

Leo Laporte (01:00:48):
Apparently he's not political. We didn't know. And there's no question he's

Stacey Higginbotham (01:00:51):
Just a jerk and gets upset when people call him political. Yeah, I mean that's, it's people who are like, I'm not political. They just that are the most don't recognize there.

Leo Laporte (01:01:00):
Yes.

Jeff Jarvis (01:01:00):
Right. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:01:01):
Well I'm not political, I'm just Right. And there's no question there will be many bumps along the way, says Anderson. But this is the key point. As a tech entrepreneur, he is without peer. In 2013, I predicted he would become the world's richest man within a decade.

Jeff Jarvis (01:01:20):
Oh, ho ho. Check,

Leo Laporte (01:01:22):
Check the next. That's his check, not mine. The next decade will be even more spectacular. Fixing Twitter may be as hard a job as converting Teslas into robo taxis still hasn't happened. And proving the viability of a monster rocket capable of taking humanity to the Mars still hasn't happened. But within three days, three years from today, I predict he will have accomplished all three. Hey, there you go. Put that down. Would you put that in the book there? Aunt got it. Tesla Robo taxis rockets to Mars and he fixed Twitter.

Jeff Jarvis (01:01:57):
And let's not forget, three years tubes under America. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:02:02):
Not investment advice, just one person's opinion. Now pass me the popcorn. Your thoughts Ms. GaN, Buff

Jeff Jarvis (01:02:10):
<laugh>,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:02:12):
The turning Twitter into an Everything app. I think that's a really great idea. The challenge is, it is difficult in a way that Elon can't engineer around. And I don't know if Elon's coming up with these ideas or his, he's inspiring his engineering staff to really work hard at some things. There's some really cool things that I will give Elon or the companies that Elon is heading a lot of credit for. I mean, yes we can mock the lack of robo taxis, but when you sat up for his engineering thing for the Optimist robot in the way he's approaching AI training, that actually there's some really interesting science and some really big bets on their computing platform that I'm like, Hey, that's actually legit and pretty cool.

Jeff Jarvis (01:02:58):
But the robot was bs, right

Stacey Higginbotham (01:02:59):
When it, Stacey the robot itself, I don't think there'll be a full functioning robot. He anticipates in what, six months or nine months? I can't remember. It was very late. I was on a plane. But back to X in this concept of Twitter is everything up, the problem is payments. And Apple spent almost eight years working on getting payments and they're just now hitting their stride with Apple Pay and that sort of thing. And I think Elon knows this. He was at PayPal. I think getting an everything app and having the payments as part of the app, cuz you would have to have some sort of agreement with credit card companies. I don't think anyone can reinvent that space. We've seen so many people try and well Mr. That's

Ant Pruitt (01:03:51):
Where I'm having history at PayPal. Do you not think he has a bit of a head start and being able to see what Apple went through? Do you not think that's some hit starting for him to try to put stuff in place?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:04):
I feel like he knows how hard it is. <affirmative>. I also feel like Apple went about it from a different angle than the PayPal folks did. So I feel like even if he's able to do that, he's not going to be able to do that for years. <affirmative>. And there's not really a good way to do it quickly. And it's not an engineering issue. It is a business issue. And

Jeff Jarvis (01:04:30):
That's a lot to higher credit card infrastructure of the country. You've gotta convince every merchant to come on and accept payment this way. You've gotta add all kinds of functionality and change consumer habits about how they do everything. China can do it cuz they have a monopoly government over monopoly businesses. That ain't the case here. That did not happen. Not happening.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:04:55):
And China also didn't have the credit card infrastructure and the payment infrastructure going into it. So excellent point. So when I think about things like that, I'm like, I think Elon probably is good at recognizing his 10 X way to solve a problem and galvanizing engineers to solve that problem even. But I don't think payments in creating everything app is probably the way to that. That's not that type of problem. So that's my take there. And I mean, I don't know. He doesn't want this. I feel like that's the key.

Jeff Jarvis (01:05:34):
Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:35):
I really don't under, I mean

Leo Laporte (01:05:37):
Think he does not

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:38):
Maybe

Leo Laporte (01:05:38):
The best. I think he does now. I think he's, once again, he's completely flip flopped on this. He seems completely

Jeff Jarvis (01:05:44):
Leader on

Stacey Higginbotham (01:05:45):
That's all he really wants it. Long as he goes. Our best case is he someone who does want this? If he finds someone who's willing to do it and does wanna dig into this, I think it could be fine. Cuz it's not like the Twitter folks were really doing a bang up job. They were just kind of mucking along trying some stuff. But it was so there's actually the potential for someone to be appointed to do something really great with it

Leo Laporte (01:06:14):
<laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:06:16):
But I would prefer,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:06:18):
I would see this

Jeff Jarvis (01:06:20):
Motivates people. I wanna see this turbocharged blue sky and other alternatives. I wanna see this put up a bat signal to scare people that, as Jack has said, Twitter shouldn't be a company, it should be a protocol. And what does speech as protocol look like with value added layer as a top?

Leo Laporte (01:06:39):
I think that's a nonstarter. I think that's even harder to do than a siloed. I mean, I hate Say it, I far

Jeff Jarvis (01:06:45):
Discord. Discord starts down that path.

Leo Laporte (01:06:47):
Well yeah, but disc cord's not taken over the world. I think as a protocol. I think that, I agree with you Jeff. I prefer to see it that way. But honestly the way to financial riches, look, he's gotta get makeup. 44 billion. Well

Jeff Jarvis (01:07:01):
I'm not does this, I'm saying that this scares everybody else to get their acts together to do something. Well

Leo Laporte (01:07:07):
That's

Jeff Jarvis (01:07:07):
The conversation. So yesterday, yesterday when

Leo Laporte (01:07:09):
This came out, people weren't scared by Facebook. I mean honestly, this

Jeff Jarvis (01:07:13):
Takes a lot.

Leo Laporte (01:07:14):
This has been waiting for somebody to do and lots of tried for a decade and nobody has. And I think there's the network effect. There's a lot of strong reasons why it's almost impossible at this point to build a comp competitor. I think Elon has absolutely the inside track to create an everything app. I mean, if he acquires Twitter, he's got the inside track. It's not gonna be an open standard. It's gonna be a siloed, you know, have to buy into it. He's gonna have to somehow get people to go for it. I don't think it's gonna be easy thing to do. He's

Jeff Jarvis (01:07:45):
Gonna have to invest three times what it costs to buy Twitter maybe

Leo Laporte (01:07:48):
To do that. But honestly, if the financial markets thought that he had a shot at it, look how much money they pour into Uber and we work. I mean if they thought he had a shot at it, he would have no trouble raising the money. In fact, I think he has had no trouble so far. He's probably pitching this idea and has been for some time there. I mean it's clear to see what the upside would be of such a thing if you could do it. The fact that Facebook hasn't done it. I mean Facebook's tried that. Apple has, I don't think Apple's really tried, but I think Apple's sensibly stood and looked over the precipice and stepped back a little bit. Facebook's tried though. They wanted to turn Messenger into the, which

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:28):
Says everything about how difficult it is. I don't think it

Leo Laporte (01:08:30):
Easy. Yeah, no, not

Jeff Jarvis (01:08:32):
At all. And I, so I think there's another scenario here cuz Jack has been, to my surprise seemingly an Elon ally in this, which says a lot about his relationship with the company. I'm sure that's part of it, but it's also about Blue sky and Elon has saluted that flag a bit and Blue Sky says 5 million. Funny. That's all they have right now. And four people. But Jay G's really smart. There's something there where if Jack convinced Elon that the future was as a protocol, like a WordPress open source base upon which you can build great value and build it faster as a result, then interesting thing that could happen, Jack could be a key to this. To pushing Elon in the right

Leo Laporte (01:09:23):
Direction. Everybody knows that's not where the money is. The money is where Cory, Dr. Rowe and Rebecca get the

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:29):
Money ate in Twitter.

Leo Laporte (01:09:30):
No, they took the money ate there. Choke point Capitalism, the money is in controlling the is siloed. It's not an open anything. Open is the antithesis is why we love Open. But open is not the way to make billions open.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:09:46):
That's not true. Open can be used to make billionaires. It just needs to be open. Who the lower

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:53):
Android. Android

Leo Laporte (01:09:54):
Android's not open. Well are you kidding? Open

Jeff Jarvis (01:09:58):
Her. Open her.

Leo Laporte (01:10:00):
Are you kidding

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:01):
Me? It's open

Leo Laporte (01:10:02):
<laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:03):
Like look at the Intel architecture that isn't open, but it's at a low enough level. And then Intel spent a lot of money and I think it's also important they recognize that it was a platform and designed it as such. So you can design yourself to be a walled garden or you can be a platform. And I think that's <affirmative>. And I say Intel cuz look at what Intel did. They were like, Oh crap, we've got a computing platform. We need more people to use it. So they funded ea, they funded all these companies who were like, Heck yeah, use our computing platform.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:10:36):
Contrast that with something like the carriers who are like, Oh man, broadband's amazing. They're gonna be able to hold economy on this. Let's charge 'em for every freaking penny and then let's charge 'em for more. And that, that's stymied the ecosystem till we found ways around it. So I think there's a difference, and I appreciate what Corey is saying with Choke Point capitals and I think most companies try to veer towards the carrier kind of model. But I think there's a lot of value in recognizing and creating a platform that allows enough people to make enough money off of it. <affirmative> that allows you to build out something that's really cool and literally does, I guess lift all boats or whatever that phrase is. Does that make sense?

Leo Laporte (01:11:23):
Of course I'm all for it. But that's not what concentrates a billion dollars in the hands of one person. And that's what Elon wants to do. So be clear. I am all about Open. That's fantastic.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:11:34):
Intel made a but ton of money during their heyday.

Leo Laporte (01:11:39):
Yep. Because they had an open architecture. They didn't have an open architecture. They made

Stacey Higginbotham (01:11:44):
Their own, They made a platform. It was opener. It was a platform as opposed to

Leo Laporte (01:11:50):
A platform is not open. That's not an open platform.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:11:52):
I know, I'm not saying you need to be open. You need to have a mindset that

Leo Laporte (01:11:56):
He wants to make a platform

Stacey Higginbotham (01:11:57):
Build on top of your platform.

Leo Laporte (01:11:59):
Yeah, that's

Jeff Jarvis (01:11:59):
What he wants. He could build on top. He wants

Leo Laporte (01:12:01):
Twitter degree platform. Absolutely. But that's not federated. Green Open. No, but

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:06):
There are middle grounds. There are middle grounds. And Blue Sky could be a means of that where you tie in others. There's another scenario here, which is that he buys it. Anybody with any talent leaves, he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. He turns it into the true SES pool that people call it now. When it isn't and the value goes down and down and down and down and loans get called and other problems get hauled. This could be the ruin of Elon Musk. That's another scenario.

Leo Laporte (01:12:34):
I think that's probably more likely. But I, I'm rooting for him. Look, if he's gonna take Twitter over, I want him to succeed cuz I don't want Twitter to go away.

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:41):
That's like saying we still salute Donald Trump because he's president at some point. Believe who people are when they tell you

Leo Laporte (01:12:49):
<laugh>

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:52):
Showed

Stacey Higginbotham (01:12:52):
Us. Are we down talking

Jeff Jarvis (01:12:53):
About Eli? And again

Leo Laporte (01:12:56):
I think we are. Let me see, is there anything else that we, in that rundown that we care

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:01):
About? I'd be curious if your audience, anybody your audience has used Planetary which is

Leo Laporte (01:13:07):
Something you and look,

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:08):
I was with, with Mike Masick yesterday. I'm a fan boy of Mike. I finally got to meet Mike in person and with Daphne Keller, who's a brilliant legal scholar at Stanford on internet stuff. And somebody named Gold of EZ who was there. And this news happened while we were talking together at lunch at this conference. And so Mike brought up Planetary and said, he showed it to me. He said, Look, it looks exactly like Twitter, it's got a head start. And Gold was saying that the key is being able to export your graph from the likes of Twitter. And apparently you can do that. No.

Leo Laporte (01:13:44):
Can export it to other people using that planetary.

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:48):
Well, but that's the question is where does that look is, is there any exit strategy that works out?

Leo Laporte (01:13:55):
Why do they keep reinventing this? I mean look, we had new social because we've had this

Jeff Jarvis (01:13:59):
Got ruined.

Leo Laporte (01:14:00):
No, no, but we, we've

Jeff Jarvis (01:14:01):
Had, Oh, I see the,

Leo Laporte (01:14:03):
We have open an open standard for this. There's no reason to invest. Reinvent. Right? Well Mass is on is one instance is a user, but there's more than, in fact, I don't know if you know about Pixeled, Do you know Pixeled, which is a mastered on Instagram photo sharing clone. It's based on, it's open. There are a lot of, there's it started way back when with Well Canoe Social and before Canoe Social was iden. I dunno if you remember that. But this is a well known, well supported, strong, open standard. Masta is just one instance of it. And I love Masta. I, we've been running our own Masta on instance for years. It's not the next, it's not taken over. <laugh> not, I mean, I don't understand why you think let's create another one is gonna solve that there.

Jeff Jarvis (01:14:58):
I'm just saying sometimes of time just has to be right. Exactly. There's a crisis now. And none of these companies is forever. Right. Friend Feed did not take over the world. My MySpace did not take over the world. Twitter, Facebook, and even Google are not forever companies. There's nothing to say that something could come along. The problem is they can't just replicate what was, They've gotta improve upon it. And we heard Matt Mullenweg's strategy a few weeks ago and he's now serving 40% of the web very quietly by doing the open structure, by building a true platform. There are examples of succeeding that way. And Matt's plenty of successful, Not as rich as Elon. No, but he's doing very

Leo Laporte (01:15:38):
Well. I would submit that's not the kind of success Elon's going for.

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:40):
I don't care what Elon wants. I don't give a damn

Ant Pruitt (01:15:43):
What

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:44):
Eon wants.

Leo Laporte (01:15:45):
Well, I just point out Elon's not gonna do anything Elon doesn't want.

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:50):
And so that's why I do think we've gotta start looking for alternatives.

Leo Laporte (01:15:54):
Okay, Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:54):
That's what I'm saying. It's,

Leo Laporte (01:15:56):
He's

Jeff Jarvis (01:15:57):
An

Leo Laporte (01:15:57):
Idiot. You're saying that Twitter is, He's brilliant. You're saying Twitter's over the minute he takes over.

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:02):
I fear that I'm, I'm not gonna leave. I was starting to say before, I greatly admire, and I mentioned him on the show and Andre Brock Jr. Who wrote Distributed Blackness. And I don't know, I, I've just looked at his feed and I haven't seen any comments lately. But after the Holy Lot thing started, he said basically, you're gonna get us outta here with dynamite cuz we have something now. We build it now. And it's not public for the world to see the Twitter that he talks about exists in its own world. And as long as it can can survive there like Lavi in the Ukraine war, then fine. Keep going. And that's the way I look at Twitter now. I think that's what we've all just said. As long as it doesn't get too awful, we've got a lot of vested in there. We're gonna stick for now, but I'm afraid that it could get really awful.

Leo Laporte (01:16:49):
It just struck me

Ant Pruitt (01:16:49):
That when you met with them yesterday in the person who did you say showed you this planetary social?

Jeff Jarvis (01:16:56):
Mike Masick. Mike Masick

Ant Pruitt (01:16:57):
Showed. Okay, so when Mr. Masick showed it to you, were the words out of his mouth is just like Twitter?

Jeff Jarvis (01:17:03):
No, no, no, no, no. He was saying that there's the guy who started Planetary has a far more open algorithmic view of social, and Mike just said, by the way, it kind of looks like Twitter. That was all. Oh, okay. But as far as alternatives and where if we were to export our graphs somewhere, where might there be open homes for them? I don't know. Can Discord take that and take all my friends can planetary. Is there a friendly repository where we can start to rebuild after the nuclear bomb that Elon drops on our social world?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:41):
So you can't do that if you think of your social web like a community. And if you view this as being a bomb brought up, you can't bring your entire community with you when you go, No, no, you just have to accept this. But

Jeff Jarvis (01:17:52):
People, What kinda headstart do you have?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:17:55):
Well, no, you could just be like, I'm gonna build a new community here. And I think that kind of idea of if you view your virtual life and your virtual relationships in parallel to your real world. Ones if you move away or your friends move away or you leave college, for example, this might be leaving college. Everybody goes to their own platforms and that was nice. And you'll make new friends.

Leo Laporte (01:18:19):
Yeah. I mean it happened with MySpace. It's happened before.

Ant Pruitt (01:18:23):
I doesn't like the idea of someone proposing a new app or service or whatever and the first things out of their mouth is, Hey, it is just like Twitter. Well then no,

Jeff Jarvis (01:18:33):
No, I don't want his planetary Didn't say that. Mike didn't say that.

Ant Pruitt (01:18:38):
Although it's like Twitter. No, but I'm saying, But it's

Leo Laporte (01:18:40):
Not exactly

Ant Pruitt (01:18:41):
Competiting nowadays there's a lot of competitors are using that type of verbiage, whether it be a Twitter lookalike or whatever on Instagram. Or everybody's sort of saying, Hey, this is our version of Twitter. Well if it's Twitter, then just stay there.

Jeff Jarvis (01:19:00):
Yeah. It's an ancillary to the discussion about why does everybody start TikTok when there's TikTok that the competitive response is that everybody copies everybody rather than everybody out innovates everybody. And that's where we are right now. I think it's the same thing. And where there's a whole list of things are getting killed every week. Google's killing them and others are killing them. And I think we're seeing Facebook is a sad retrenchment right now. Twitter, god knows what it's fate is in the next month. Google is killing stuff and Leo's been saying this for a long time, but now I'll agree with him that it's not showing itself to be wildly innovative. The now legacy companies of the internet are getting to be kind of sad. And I don't think that the future is necessarily new big companies. Well, but that

Leo Laporte (01:19:50):
Sam's point well taken, which is the, You're certainly not gonna innovate by copying what exists today.

Jeff Jarvis (01:19:54):
I agree. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And I think that's where we are now. I think we're in a, it's like the phones, there's not really any innovation going on with the phones right now. There are incremental improvements and I think the internet and how it works is incremental improvements. But I think I'm gonna do a Gutenberg moment, folks, a book coming up next June it was 150 years after Moveable type, before you got the essay, the novel and the newspaper. And I think that we're in a stagnant time of not understanding what we can be. And there's gonna be my students maybe will be the ones who surprise us and I'll be long gone.

Leo Laporte (01:20:30):
I want you to read Corey's book. You gotta read Choke Point Capitalism. I'd love to get your opinion on it because I think Corey and his co-author, Rebecca Gil, have set out a very good description of why we are at this stage. Yeah, we're in a stage, but I don't think they're quite as sangin about the It's breakable. The <laugh>. Yeah. The end results as you are. It's a really good book. And I choke point capitalism highly recommended. I also want give credit to Kathleen St. J McCormick. I don't know what the Saint J stands for, who is the judge at the Delaware Chancery Court? Because I think she's actually been kind of savvy. It was her decision to release all those messages.

Leo Laporte (01:21:18):
And I think that was a kind of savvy move to kick Elon in the butt That worked. That was a little, We got more messages we could really clan cuz of course it's in her interest as it would be for any court to get these parties to settle before they go to court. And what better way to get Elon off as duff than say we got these messages and we're gonna have more published them. Great piece in Bloomberg, by the way, on the one person who did not embarrass himself in the texts. And that's Paraag Agro, who's

Jeff Jarvis (01:21:56):
The victim in all

Leo Laporte (01:21:57):
Of those? Well victim who's gonna get 40 million plus as his golden handcuffs, but he stayed out of it. Even Jack Dorsey got in the middle agro wall, just sat quiet. He said, I'm super excited about the opportunity, looking forward to working closely and finding ways to use your time as effectively as possible and improve Twitter in the public conversation. Great message to Elon. They had a couple of back and forths but agro wall at every point stayed classy. <laugh> Elon texted him. April 5th would be great to unwind permanent bands that is except for spam accounts and those that explicitly advocate violence agro wall agro. I don't know why I have such a hard time saying Ara Wall, Agro Wall did not respond. <laugh>, he just <laugh>. Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (01:22:55):
<affirmative>. Let's

Leo Laporte (01:22:56):
That sit there. Okay. <affirmative> instead. Agro Wall invites us to talk about a specific technical ideas, asking him to treat me like an engineer instead of ceo, I promise I'll evaluate proposals neutrally. I wanna hear all the ideas and I'll tell you which ones will make progress on versus not and why. In other words, he stayed classy, man. Yeah. So yeah, in all of this props to two people agro all the C current ceo, I would say interim CEO of Twitter. And the judge, Kathleen McCormick, who I think pulled off a pretty savvy coup that worked by releasing at least his first trench of messages and saying there are more to come.

Jeff Jarvis (01:23:45):
I think I can channel Stacy right now to say, we've done Elon,

Leo Laporte (01:23:48):
We are done. I tried to end it a while ago. <laugh> we are done. Be we are done. We gotta talk about Stadia. We haven't even gotten to Stadia. But first, let me tell you, speaking of dead things about speaking of dead things about our sponsors, Secure Works. Secure Works is a leader in cyber security building solutions for security experts by security experts. SecureWorks offers superior threat detection and rapid incidence response while making sure that customers are never locked into a single vendor. October is cyber security awareness month, which means now is the time to raise awareness about digital security and empower everyone to protect their data from cyber crime. SecureWorks has the perfect solution, Now is the time to get contagious. Xdr. Why in 2022, Cyber crime will cost the world 7 trillion with a T $7 trillion by 2025, that figure will be 10.5 trillion. Last year, ransomware totaled 20 billion in damages.

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Leo Laporte (01:26:00):
Many companies are facing a shortage of security talent, SecureWorks access, and extension of your security team on day one, alleviating cyber security talent gaps and allows you to customize the approach and the coverage level you need. What happens if you've already found an intruder in your system? There's no need to worry. I want you to write down this number 1-800-BREACHED. That number will connect you with the Secure Works Emergency Incident Response Team and they can provide you with immediate assistance 24 7 in responding to and remediating a possible cyber incident or data breach at Secure Works. You can learn more about the ways today's threat environment is evolving and the risks it can present to your organization, including case studies reports from their counter threat unit and more. Visit secureworks.com/twit to get a free trial of Contagious xdr that secureworks.com/twi. SecureWorks defending every corner of cyberspace. Let me think. Secure works for supporting this week in Google. It was just inevitable. I thought we'd already talked about this, but I guess it came after a twig last week. Google has announced despite denials as recently as July. Yeah, well I guess we're gonna shut down Stadia after all. The good thing is they're gonna rep refund any game and hardware purchases. Of course your subscription fees will not be refunded.

Jeff Jarvis (01:27:25):
$2,000 worth.

Leo Laporte (01:27:26):
Yeah, well it could be a lot. There is that one guy, <laugh> who played Red Dead Redemption for a total of 246 days. <laugh>, geez, not all at once mind you. But he played enough Red Dead redemption, almost 600 hours that his character very evolved. I'm sorry, did I say 600? 6,000 hours. And he's gonna lose that character on January one when Stadia shuts down. He's a YouTuber. It's color tv. He tweeted shortly after the news. No <laugh>. You don't understand how seriously pissed off I am for context. These hours, all 6,000 on Google Stadia. When Google shuts down my character, my 246 day old character will disappear. He's begging rockstar the owner of Red Dead Redemption to let him port his character from one or the other. I mean, that's probably the worst case scenario, but there are people who have invested some time so he

Jeff Jarvis (01:28:36):
Can port

Leo Laporte (01:28:37):
The character. No, not as of now. He's asking to asking as of now. When Stadia shuts down, he will be outta luck.

Jeff Jarvis (01:28:46):
Well, but doesn't what? What's, I mean, Google's has a policy on it, being able to export your

Leo Laporte (01:28:54):
Stuff, but the rockstar has to support it too. So yeah, I know that Stadia was, and Ben Thompson points his at it was a bad idea right from the very beginning. He says, The problem with Stadia was it was a product in search of an idea that Google said, Well we've got this capability, we don't know anything about gaming, but we could make a service, a gaming service. And that wasn't enough. He says, Here's why Stadia was a bad product. Grant. Ben Thompson, Strat Techer, he quotes another writer Devin Cold away of Tech Crunch, saying the tech technical implementation certainly wasn't to be faulted at its best. Stadia was better than its competitors. Almost magical in how it fulfilled the promise of going to zero to endgame in one second. The business side was never quite so inspiring. Ben says, I'd go farther. I'd say it was lazy and stupid <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:30:03):
In fact, it was so lazy and stupid that I was far more optimistic than I should have been when I wrote up Stadia the first time. Google undoubtedly spent tremendous amounts of time spent getting stadia to work from a technical perspective. Then proceeded to spend literally zero time figuring out a business model that made sense was streaming much less actually marketing the service. I guess I can't disagree with that. They have some really great technical ideas, including the controller that was connected directly to Google servers via wifi instead of through the game, which really made a difference in terms of latency. I played a few games on Stadia that played better on Stadia than they would play like cyber punk 2077 than they would've played locally. But it's not exactly, People are the only person who's crying is this one guy. <laugh>. How

Jeff Jarvis (01:30:56):
Much of a refund are you getting? How much did you spend?

Leo Laporte (01:31:00):
I think only I spent subscription fees and bought one game. So maybe I'll get 60 bucks back for cyberpunk.

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:06):
So can I ask you to reprease one of your favorite sticks, which is your disappointment in Google and I'm starting to see it better after the collection of tombstones here. What's missing there? What's happening at Google?

Leo Laporte (01:31:22):
Oh, actually there's a very good, and I think we've probably said this before, I don't know if I bookmarked it. There's a very good analysis that says the real problem is very simple. It's structural. I think maybe it was Mike Elgan who said this, that people get promotions for inventing a new product but get no incentive for maintaining an existing problem

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:44):
Them.

Leo Laporte (01:31:45):
So the whole way Google is set up is to create lots of new products and not support <laugh>. So of course, what do you get a Google graveyard? Because nobody's supporting these. We've been saying this, it's,

Jeff Jarvis (01:31:58):
It's what I do. I start new degrees, but then I have, I'm smart enough to hire the people who actually run them and I back off.

Leo Laporte (01:32:04):
Well, and that's why Mike says the real problem is Sund Pacha at the top. It's leadership. Not solving this. Not restructuring

Ant Pruitt (01:32:14):
A D D Google everything.

Leo Laporte (01:32:18):
Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (01:32:18):
Yeah. All over the Dadone place.

Leo Laporte (01:32:19):
Yeah it honestly I mean, I don't know who else you would blame. I think it's pretty clear that that's the problem. Many many people have said it. They've been saying it for years. Google and sense people to come up with new ideas but doesn't support,

Jeff Jarvis (01:32:36):
You think Larry and Serga are saying, Oh we gotta do something.

Ant Pruitt (01:32:40):
No. Or maybe, Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:32:42):
I don't think there's so dialed out. So dialed out.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:32:45):
Yeah, they're

Leo Laporte (01:32:47):
Done. Here's a tweet. This is, I think the one I saw from Hassan me. The single most important factor for promotion at Google is novation. Google expects its employees to innovate. The more you innovate, the better your chances for promotion. No matter if you've fixed a million bugs, nothing doing, just innovate once and you move up. And this is quoting somebody that

Jeff Jarvis (01:33:11):
Says a lot about Silicon Valley too, doesn't it? I mean, it says it's about the whole culture.

Leo Laporte (01:33:16):
And by the way, this original post that he's quoting was from I think from 2016. Yeah, 26, 20 18. We've literally been talking about this for four years. Yeah. We've known this was the problem.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:26):
Say it's kind of a bigger cultural problem. I'm gonna say maybe an American problem. We optimize.

Leo Laporte (01:33:33):
Yeah. Maybe

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:35):
We over optimize for one thing. And you can think about Wall Street optimizing for

Leo Laporte (01:33:40):
Quarterly returns benefits. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:33:43):
And that cuts out in, at Silicon Valley if you optimize for innovation, but you don't consider all these externalities. And we're probably making the same mistakes again when we look and try to tackle things that are complicated like climate change or you look at how we try to solve political issues. I mean, I think it's kind of an American issue and maybe we should really consider that and think about how That's

Jeff Jarvis (01:34:09):
A really good point, Stacy.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:34:10):
I just don't know how to get around it and how to adopt from other cultures. Cuz not every culture, not every culture does this. It is, I think mean others probably do. But I do think there's something uniquely American about

Leo Laporte (01:34:27):
It. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:34:28):
Well as at the conference I was at yesterday, they brought out the old saw, which is America Innovates and Europe regulates. And we still do end up innovating more than others even for that. But

Stacey Higginbotham (01:34:40):
At what costs? I mean, I do think that if you look at some of our innovations, they're not the best <laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (01:34:49):
<laugh> throwing things against the wall to see if it sticks.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:34:54):
Well that, and then there's there, there's harms that come from it, <affirmative>. And that there are harms that we embed in the system. So you look at something, let's just take Uber. So we were all like, well, cabs suck. This is terrible, this is great. Let's have Uber. And now we're looking at things like congestion. We're also recognizing that the costs associated with that are much higher, both from a externalities like congestion the gig economy, the tax implications from that. And that we'll be paying for as taxpayers. But also then think about the actual costs compared to taxis. They're all kind of even and out. And we're like, Oh, maybe this wasn't the way to do it. But that's what happens when you optimize for one thing at the expense of all others, which is a very short sided way to do anything. I don't know.

Jeff Jarvis (01:35:49):
I

Ant Pruitt (01:35:49):
Don't really, I wonder about products such as Google Photos and Drive. I guess they're safe because of all of the data and data mining that Google can do. Or are they even safe?

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:06):
Yeah. I tweeted when Google gets rid of search, but it's that much left. They could get rid of drive and Gmail. That'd be just a disaster.

Ant Pruitt (01:36:19):
But there's a lot of Daum data in Gmail. We know they're reading the Gmail and

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:27):
They're starting

Stacey Higginbotham (01:36:27):
To charge for it. So don't worry, that's gonna make money one day.

Leo Laporte (01:36:34):
The other thing is killed

Jeff Jarvis (01:36:36):
True, but Stacy, Stacy, you're right. The Google was 98% ad revenue. And now I don't want us down to, but I think it's low eighties. And so they are bit by bit diversifying and that diversification matters. <affirmative>. The other way is the Clay Shi rule, which is the technology only becomes interesting when it gets boring. And so maybe when the technology is something we just take for granted and we're bored, then we stop innovating in the technology itself and we start innovating in what we do with it. And that's what interests me a lot more.

Leo Laporte (01:37:08):
So Google's gonna be spending some time in the Supreme Code of the United States of America, as you know. This is October this is when the Supreme Court announces its docket of cases. And on Monday they announced a few things that they're gonna hear. And they denied a cert to some things they don't want to hear David Lowry's efforts to get the justices to examine a class action settlements that go to charities instead of individuals. This is something a lot of companies like to do. Okay, we'll settle, but we're not gonna give the money to the plaintiff or the plaintiffs. We're gonna give the money to Charity Lowry. David Lowry was the founder of Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker. What is that? <laugh>? What is that? Great. Two great bands. <laugh>. <laugh>. Okay. Later in later. Love a few bars. Leo. I don't. I could. I would, but I can't because I don't wanna, We can take down a nice excuse. You've heard their, You've heard Cracker, you've heard them Camper. Van Beethoven was a big alternative band in the nineties. Later in life. Yeah. <laugh>, you don't know that.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:38:32):
I was a big alternative person and

Leo Laporte (01:38:34):
A teenager. You never heard of Camper Van Beethoven? You heard a cracker. I know.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:38:40):
I have heard of

Leo Laporte (01:38:41):
Cracker. Maybe cuz they were based out here in Northern California, maybe more aware of them. So you're just HiPer Leo. Perhaps you've heard their song. Take the Skinheads, Bowling <laugh>. All I can play. That's all I can play <laugh>. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway, anyway, anyway, as you were saying before, you was a Ru Lowry after his great success in those bands became an advocate of filing suits against Spotify and Napster later Google for settling class actions by giving settlement money to charities. In fact, charities that it turns out took the tech giant side against him on copyright controversies. He did not get his cert, but the Supreme Court did take up Aldo Gonzalez versus Google. Ooh, Scary. Very scary. Scary. Yeah. This is one that could really undermine two 30, Section two 30, this Communications Decency Act. So let me see if I can summarize the appellants Rano Gonzalez at Hall, our family members of a 23 year old who was murdered by terrorists, ISIS terrorists by studying in Paris. They sued Google. They wanna hold them responsible for allegedly offering assistance to terrorists by recommending ISIS videos in its algorithm. And the justices agreed. Yeah, we should hear this case.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:40:21):
That is dicey.

Leo Laporte (01:40:24):
So the question I guess boils down to whether section two 30 immunizes algorithms, not Immunizes publishers, but does it immunize algorithms. So this is really gonna be a case about how content gets algorithmically boosted. Yeah. Stacy, I share your headache. Should Google lose, I'm quoting now from my favorite puck news, Eric Gardner writing in this Should Google Lose, it'll poke a huge hole in section two 30 and probably lead to a wave of tort litigation around the country. Facebook and TikTok, for example, could expect to see lawsuits for leading users into various forms of addiction. They've already been suits along those lines.

Leo Laporte (01:41:15):
There's, It doesn't, by the way, there isn't the last line of defense. It's kind of more a imagino line. It's because section two 30 justices often just throw out these suits. Now they might proceed, but it doesn't mean they would lose cuz there's still a First Amendment defense. Wow. But it is a defensive line that would be destroyed. The court did make a decision in favor of Netflix earlier this year. Netflix was sued by a teenager who suicidal, allegedly, was triggered by their movie 13 Reason or their show. 13 Reasons Why, which was about teenage suicide. The family sued over Netflix recommendation algorithm Netflix inserted

Ant Pruitt (01:42:06):
Consequences

Leo Laporte (01:42:08):
There. Netflix asserted there's not, There is no difference in an algorithm in a human editor. And the court agreed. So Netflix one that's the only precedent I guess in this area. We'll watch that one. So what in October, the first Monday, they announce what they're gonna hear, and then they hear those cases over a period of months. And then they don't need to actually release decisions until later next year. Like the summer, Like July, right? June. They do it in June. Okay. So we basically

Ant Pruitt (01:42:37):
Put in everyone on notice is what you're saying.

Leo Laporte (01:42:40):
So no, they get a stack. We talked about this yesterday and I learned how to pronounce ary <laugh>. Oh, is that how you say it? That's what Jason Snell says is how you say it. And I said, Oh, that's a long way to search. But that was another show for another time. So search. So what happens is you don't have a right to appeal to the Supreme Court. If you lose a case with a lower court. You can't. What you do is you then file and say, Hey, please Supreme Court, could you look at this? They then decide, and the way it works is they have a rotating panel of four. Four justices have to agree each justice takes a certain, there's a big stack, takes a certain amount. I I'm told what really happens is their clerks take the stack, write up opinions on whether the court should take up this case or not. If the court says, Yeah, we're not gonna take up the case as it did with the Larry Case, that's it, you're done. No, that's, they're not interested. If they do, it's an effective appeal. Now you can argue it before the Supreme Court. And that's the final, obviously the highest court in the land, the final decider. So that's called the process called cert or ary because nobody wants to say search area in public.

Leo Laporte (01:43:54):
So they, there's cert for one and not cert for other. Lar Lowry did not get cert. but this interesting case, Randa Gonzalez versus Google did. There will also be some other decisions. This is an interesting, remember genius, the rap genius, Remember them? <affirmative> <affirmative>. So we haven't yet heard whether they, I don't, at least as of the last time I checked, whether they're gonna give cert to this. But they've been asked to investigate a petition that could be interesting. Rap genius. Do you remember this? We talked about, it was sure that Google was taking its song lyrics. That's what they did. Rap Jerry Genius would give you the lyrics, Oh, flying up here burning my flame alone or whatever Elton's singing would, You could go there and they would say, Oh yeah that's what this says. So the company thinking Google was doing this in their search results late at Trap, they swapped the original apostrophes for a sequence of straight and curly ones that spelled out. Remember this red handed in more scope. And of course Google fell for it. <laugh> and was got copying the lyrics red handed one ironic,

Jeff Jarvis (01:45:14):
Since Genius itself was taking lyrics

Leo Laporte (01:45:18):
Exactly right. It turned out the rap genius was in fact making transcripts, but they didn't actually own the lyrics. The publishing company <affirmative> and the song writers did <affirmative>. So Google Genius attempted to hold Google responsible, but Google successfully argued the claim was preempted by copyright. You don't have the copyright. Well now this is going to, the Supreme Court genius is represented by the same lawyer, Josh Rosen Krantz, who represented Oracle in its battle against Google way back when over the fair use of computer code. Remember that this time Rap Genius says it's the visitor terms and Google's not adhering to those. You can't. It's wrong to measure whether a contract claim is qualitatively different from a copyright claim as the Second Circuit assists. But many appellate circuits in the nation don't. The petition adds that having copyright law wipe out Sacs, Sankt contract remedies, like our website terms <laugh>, I didn't know they were Sacra Sankt. They're Sacra sank leads to absurd outcomes. Thought they were San Sant, they're Sacra Sankt, San <laugh> hobbling. Digital services like Yelp and Wikipedia that depend on user generated content, et cetera, et cetera. So this will be very interesting. There were some interesting amicus briefs filed in this case. Actually, the best amicus brief of this session Yes. Comes from The Onion. Have you heard about this one?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:47:04):
This is beautiful.

Leo Laporte (01:47:05):
You don't want to hear about it. Stacy? Gr. Oh, gr gr.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:47:08):
I'm just grumpy. Just keep going. Keep

Leo Laporte (01:47:10):
Going. <laugh>, get through it. I don't have to do this story if you don't like it.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:47:17):
No, no. I feel like everybody has been talking about, it's just like, I'm like, Yes. Yes. Have

Leo Laporte (01:47:23):
You heard it over and over? Parity. What? Did NPR already cover this? A lot of places on Morning Edition? Did you hear about it last night? And all things Considered? I mean, am I taking a page? I'm sorry. Under the npr, I'm

Jeff Jarvis (01:47:37):
Just so five of a podcast. Talked about it this week. I'm sure

Stacey Higginbotham (01:47:40):
Basic. Basically like three of my news sources and NPR and

Leo Laporte (01:47:45):
Probably, Oh, it is a great story. But, And if you heard it over and over again, I

Stacey Higginbotham (01:47:49):
Probably should. Oh, but your audience

Leo Laporte (01:47:51):
Probably they don't listen npi. I know. Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (01:47:53):
No, God bless. That's why we love them.

Leo Laporte (01:47:55):
<laugh>. I being stupid. Okay, I'll do this quick. How about that? I just want to honestly just wanna read from the brief. That's all. You know that? Yeah. Cause it's fun. The case is an amateur comic from Parma, Ohio who posted on Facebook a fake social media page, pretending to be the Parma Police Department's Facebook page mocking them. The police didn't like it and they arrested him. <laugh> threw 'em in jail. The civil suit alleging his constitutional rights were violated, was dismissed after a federal appeals court said, Police officers even in this, have qualified immunity. Wow. That's really, They could do anything, right? Apparently the appellate judges said There is no recognized right to be free from a retaliatory arrest <laugh> that is supported by probable cause. Novak is asking the Supreme Court to take this case up. I think they should. The supporting brief filed by the Onion, because they wanna support parody

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:14):
By way. It's not cheap to file a brief. You really have to get real lawyers. You've gotta do all this stuff. It costs money to do a

Leo Laporte (01:49:20):
Brief, The Onion called the Supreme

Stacey Higginbotham (01:49:23):
Court. That is literally their business.

Leo Laporte (01:49:25):
They called the Supreme Court Latin dorks <laugh>, maybe a questionable strategy. Well,

Jeff Jarvis (01:49:33):
They're being called worse these days.

Leo Laporte (01:49:35):
Yeah. They said they are the world's leading news publication with a daily readership of 4.3 trillion that has grown into the single most powerful and influential organization in human history. Obviously that's a joke. And that the point being you don't announce parody ahead of time or disclaim it afterwards. That eliminates the point of parody. The onion cannot stand idly by in the face of a ruling that threatens to disempower a form of rhetoric that is existed for millennia that is particularly potent in the realm of political debate. And I think that they're absolutely absolutely right. Yes. So best

Jeff Jarvis (01:50:16):
Headline I saw, I think was Washington Post local man arrested for

Leo Laporte (01:50:19):
Parody. <laugh> Lo, Local man, of course is one of the favorite terms of art in onion headlines. And I agree, honestly, I agree with the onion on this one. I hope the Supreme Court does the right thing. One never knows these days what the Supreme Court is going to do. And that is our Supreme Court. I think it's up done our Supreme Court docket of the week. Yes. Was there anything else you proud to?

Leo Laporte (01:50:47):
I think that's the good one. Google is in court and has been fined 85 million in Arizona. Actually, no, I'm sorry. They settled for 85 million to end an Arizona consumer privacy suit. The state sued Google in 2020 claiming they surreptitiously collected data on users whereabouts for targeted advertising. Well, they violated the consumer fraud act by gathering location data even after you opt out of a feature that records location history. We've talked about this before. You could turn that off. But there is another place you need to turn it off for Google, not to follow you around. Google said, Well the state consumer protection law requires fraud. It has to be connected to a sailor advertisement. They request that January the judge denied Google's request to dismiss is the largest amount per individual user Google has ever paid in a privacy and consumer fraud lawsuit. 85 million of which probably nobody's gonna get much except the lawyers. Google's also being sued over this by other states and Washington DC So it's may not be over completely. And I thought this was interesting. I don't know if this is tech, but I gotta mention this since we're talking about courts, Walmart and cvs are on trial for putting homeopathic products next to real meds, thereby giving some sort of implied value to homeopathic medicines.

Ant Pruitt (01:52:24):
Gotta tell you, sir, when I saw this in the rundown, I was like, Is this a mistake

Leo Laporte (01:52:29):
<laugh>? Why? Cause it's not, Tech

Ant Pruitt (01:52:31):
Didn't, it didn't give me a tech angle. What's, what's the angle? Well,

Leo Laporte (01:52:35):
I think there the, there's no tech angle. I just think that it's probably a good thing to reinforce that homeopathic remedies are a medieval concept that has no justification science whatsoever. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (01:52:51):
Here's the tech angle for you, is that Google gets in trouble for that and Facebook gets in trouble for that. For what they choose to advertise in

Leo Laporte (01:52:57):
This. Yeah, but not Walmart. Right. But not Walmart.

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:00):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:53:00):
And Walmart does put these fairly, I mean it's partly that you're spending money on what is effectively water. If you're buying a homeopathic medicine

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:10):
What I wanna know is

Leo Laporte (01:53:12):
There's some danger potentially, potentially though as well.

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:15):
Did the homeopathic remedies pay for that shelf space?

Leo Laporte (01:53:19):
Pays for

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:20):
Space?

Leo Laporte (01:53:20):
I don't know. That's

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:22):
Interesting. What is the implied, if a blogger has to under FTC rules reveal, If you've got a free pen, If I write about it VO magazine doesn't have to, but the blogger does. What about Walmart? Is there, Is the paid placement an issue here? Good point. Does that, when we put Entertainment weekly out Rackspace was very expensive.

Leo Laporte (01:53:48):
Yeah. And the question is, is a consumer being misled by the fact that Exactly. That these homeopathic remedies are put next to

Jeff Jarvis (01:53:56):
And can Walmart be bought actual

Leo Laporte (01:53:57):
Remedies? Yeah. I don't actually, I'm looking at this article in our Technica and I don't see that as being in part of the issue. I

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:05):
Wonder, Yeah, that's the shelf space. I mean for if you have a new I, they're holding, I watch Shark Tank and I know well that from Mark Cuban that if you wanna get your chips on the grocery

Leo Laporte (01:54:17):
Store shelf, you gotta buy placement. That's right. That's how grocery stores make money for the most part. Exactly.

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:22):
Yep. It's marketing space. Big

Leo Laporte (01:54:23):
Caps two lower DC courts said the, that placement on the shelves with real medicine did not constitute an actionable representation as to efficacy. But appeals court judges overruled.

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:40):
Efficacy.

Leo Laporte (01:54:41):
Efficacy,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:54:42):
Efficacy. Efficacy,

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:43):
Efficacy, Efficacy.

Leo Laporte (01:54:45):
Are you complaining about my positioning of the Salam? Yes.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:54:49):
You're It's San Man <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (01:54:52):
It's fake ole

Stacey Higginbotham (01:54:55):
Efficacy sync cross efficacy. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:54:58):
Efficacy, efficacy, efficacy. But they're efficient. So I thought they'd be efficacy efficacy's like a frequency. Okay. Hey, how you say

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:08):
Fy? It's

Leo Laporte (01:55:08):
Time for the change. You say Fsy frequency. You just wanna get this over with don't you? Don't

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:15):
You wants to torture me.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:16):
I am losing

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:17):
So much fun,

Leo Laporte (01:55:18):
Don't you?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:19):
I am losing so much steam. It's so sad. I'm sitting here and I'm like,

Leo Laporte (01:55:24):
It's time for change. Long

Jeff Jarvis (01:55:29):
Google change Long. It's a good thing Jason's not here cuz there's not much in it. So it'll be fast. It's okay.

Leo Laporte (01:55:36):
Stacy, Samsung rolling out in direct. 12 more devices, four new maps, update Google Home App, getting a website, home app.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:43):
That's what we should be talking about.

Leo Laporte (01:55:44):
Home app is getting better Interception but barely, but barely getting better. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You disagree.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:55:51):
Home app is gonna be much

Leo Laporte (01:55:52):
Better with the great Ben Sco who says the Google Home app is getting better but barely. It is pretty bad though. You will acknowledge that. It

Stacey Higginbotham (01:56:00):
Is horrifying, but it's going to be much better and it's gonna pull in all this cool stuff that we've wanted forever. It's gonna solve the Nest Camera issue where half your old, any of your old Google Nest cams work only on the Nest app. Not on the home app, but only your new ones work on the home app. So you can't see your other ones such a cluster F. But now Charlie Stra, not now. Soon, <laugh>. Soon they release it in preview. And then early next year we're gonna get a Google Home app that has all the functionality for your Nest cameras on your home map, you're gonna be able to see live video fees. You're gonna get the moments that you can get on the Nest thing. Eventually they're going to bring your older Nest camps into the home app so you can then see all your camps in the same place. They'll also bring those cameras to the web. That's amazing. And even better for the super nerds, you're gonna get a script editor for your home. And thanks to Matter, Google Home for setting up routines is gonna allow you to use sensors to trigger routines, especially sensors that are not part of Google's ecosystem. That's a lot of really exciting things. We didn't even talk about Google launching a new doorbell or there are six e wifi. Man

Leo Laporte (01:57:14):
They are didn't bring up good new Google wifi base stations that are incompatible with existing ones but do offer

Stacey Higginbotham (01:57:24):
Succeed. Okay. But that, okay, I know they're incompatible with existing ones, but how many of us buy, Well, this is stuff I care about Elon. I know <laugh> shelf space. Okay, why I succeed S

Leo Laporte (01:57:43):
But Matter Home. How exciting.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:57:48):
It's exciting and it relates to Google. Darn it. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:57:52):
Oh you thought because the show was called this weekend. Google, that it would be about Google. I understand the disconnect here now I get it.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:57:59):
I that is, I know that's my

Leo Laporte (01:58:01):
Fault. I understand that. Silly

Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:03):
Problems

Leo Laporte (01:58:04):
Silly. So no, you know that wasn't oversight. I forgot to mention these new products. When did Google announce this in an event? No, I thought mostly like we'd talking about this tomorrow. They put this out.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:18):
Tomorrow is, I can't tell you what tomorrow is 20.

Leo Laporte (01:58:21):
Tomorrow's Pixel, seven tomorrow Pixel and the Pixel Watch and possibly some other stuff. 7:00 AM Pacific, 10:00 AM Eastern Time. Are you covering it? Guy Will Ron Richards and I will be here in our jammies. Actually Ron is in the East coast, so he should be here. He'll be Wait fully C you on that end. I'll be be like <laugh>. I'm that way at nine o'clock for Stacy's book club 7:00 AM Are you? Yeah, that's true. So they already did announce though these updates. Tell me about this Stacy, the Google wifi,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:58:53):
They announced two devices. One is a wired nest doorbell for 1 79 99.

Leo Laporte (01:58:58):
How is that different than the Hello? Hello? That I

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:02):
It doesn't have quite all the features of the, Hello? Oh it's, I think it's cheaper

Leo Laporte (01:59:08):
Too. It's a less expensive,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:09):
It comes in different colors.

Leo Laporte (01:59:11):
So I have the second generat. Oh no, there was a battery powered one last year. I have a Wired, Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:17):
This is the wired version of the battery powered one that was announced last.

Leo Laporte (01:59:21):
Should I upgrade my version one Wired one for this?

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:26):
It's got nine 60 pixels. I can't remember what the other does. But Google says that it's better because their pixels are larger. They're using basically computational video.

Leo Laporte (01:59:36):
So it's lower resolution, the original doorbell, but it's hdr.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:41):
Right. So it's more visibility. I don't know.

Leo Laporte (01:59:44):
I can handle, I can, Cause a lot of times this is the case with doorbells, especially at night, if you've got lights or traffic lights or street lights or houselights. They can blind the camera. So this'll be better.

Stacey Higginbotham (01:59:58):
I mean, it has the traditional activity zones. They both have that

Leo Laporte (02:00:02):
Two-way audio with noise cancellation. I mean, yeah, IP 54, water and dust resistance. A lot of this is similar. You have to buy storage.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:11):
Yeah. It's all pretty much, It is smaller. If you want a smaller doorbell, the mounting holes are actually the same. So

Leo Laporte (02:00:18):
Be replace it, You replacing it. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:20):
Yeah. Right. But I don't mean unless you're unhappy with your doorbell. I wouldn't.

Leo Laporte (02:00:25):
I'm not. It's,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:26):
I mean, part of me resents

Leo Laporte (02:00:27):
The new doorbell Honest. Yeah. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:29):
I'm kind of like, I did not get into tech reporting to write fricking doorbell reviews. Yeah. I did not wanna sit through. That's

Leo Laporte (02:00:36):
Just me. What did you get into tech reporting? No. What did you, We're just curious. I

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:41):
Need to know how the world

Leo Laporte (02:00:42):
Works, acquiring minds. Wanna know what subjects I should put into next week's show. Okay. This, The

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:48):
Nerdier the better, by

Leo Laporte (02:00:49):
The way. Whose house do these colors match?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:00:51):
I don't know. I They'll match or create a pop of color and I'm like, Oh,

Jeff Jarvis (02:00:56):
I see those colors now that gray. I see cons to the, It's all the home shows

Leo Laporte (02:01:02):
That yeah, everything's neutral now. So these are neutral, ugly ass neutral colors. Okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:08):
<laugh>. So those exist 180 bucks. And then the other Nest wifi pro adds. So this is Google's next mesh wifi system. It is not backwards compatible. But when's the last time you bought a mesh wifi system and bought an upgrade? Extended. You buy them in a set. So

Leo Laporte (02:01:28):
A new system. Who the, He

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:29):
Cares. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:01:30):
Well

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:30):
I do. This one is notable. It's a lot because it has six. Okay.

Leo Laporte (02:01:35):
I spent money on the other ones. Go ahead. Yep. <laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:38):
But you probably bought it like three years ago. Yeah. And that's about how often three to five years is when you buy a new broader. Yeah, So these support speeds up to 5.4 gigabytes per second. They come in four colors, including lemon grass. I don't know each access point

Jeff Jarvis (02:01:55):
Are they provides

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:56):
P

Jeff Jarvis (02:01:57):
Does it come in Pew? Does a cup in pu.

Leo Laporte (02:01:58):
So this is interesting.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:01:59):
They're shiny,

Leo Laporte (02:02:00):
They've Desi, they've left behind the fabric design that everything used to be fabric colored from Google. Now this is shiny like ceramic. Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:11):
It's like plastic. Anyway each access point covers 2200 square feet. It's Trib band, which means it brings in 2.4 and five, which we're all used to. It also adds six gigahertz, which is the relatively uncluttered spectrum that the FCC approved in 2020. So that only matters though for other six E devices. So six E is the six gigahertz designation. So if you've got wifi six E, it's gonna have that.

Leo Laporte (02:02:42):
I think Apple's new phones are 60, their new laptops

Stacey Higginbotham (02:02:45):
Are, So you're gonna see it on your phones, your laptops, You're gonna start seeing it on gaming consoles and possibly TVs. The benefit is gonna be for like su, cuz it's a lot of spectrum. You can get a lot of data in there and it's gonna be amazing. It's not good for the iot so don't look for it there cuz your iot devices are too cheap to have a tri band radio. Right? Yeah. And those are going to be 1 91 20

Leo Laporte (02:03:11):
Seventh. 200 bucks for a one pack. 300 for a two pack. 400 for a three pack. Two packs dead though. So just get the three pack.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:20):
Yeah. And then they also have security. They're not charging you for security And some of the other router companies charge you a fee for like

Leo Laporte (02:03:30):
That's nice. Yeah, it's 99 bucks a year extra for Euro Pro. So that's nice. And

Stacey Higginbotham (02:03:35):
They killed their cheaper version last week where when Amazon did the device launch.

Leo Laporte (02:03:41):
So Wired says that they are shiny like Atic tac <laugh>. There you go. Like a giant tic-tac on your shelf.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:49):
So shiny didn't know that.

Leo Laporte (02:03:50):
No they're not actually it says looks glossy like a shiny. So I guess you have to get a shiny tick tech. You're right. They're not. They're mad.

Jeff Jarvis (02:03:58):
Well let's now investigate our TicTacs. Shiny. They

Leo Laporte (02:04:01):
May A They're Matt.

Jeff Jarvis (02:04:03):
Matt, they're Matt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is gonna drive Sta. We can do a five minute conversation just to drive Stacy. Crazy <laugh> going off on TikTok. We

Leo Laporte (02:04:10):
Won't do that today on the pixel six. I got my update for October or the October 5th security update. Bad news. If you have a pixel four, it's the end of the line. That's the last you're gonna get end of life for the pixel four. The crappy pixel I think some people call it. I never called it that. I thought the four was better than the five. But anyway, it's the end of life. After three short years of service for pixel four. You will not normally there's kind of like one last update. Nope, that's it. You're done. This is the one is one very famously that Rick Oster low like days before they launched, told as employees, I don't agree with some of the decisions you made. And I'm really disappointed with the battery power. <laugh>

Ant Pruitt (02:05:00):
<laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:05:01):
What Mark? That's why when Mark LaVoy, the camera guy, the brilliant camera guy left and went to Adobe and Maria said Adobe

Ant Pruitt (02:05:10):
Now. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:05:12):
So I think the pixel sixes have been pretty good. Now that you have a new one, you like it again. We will talk about the seven tomorrow and we will decide whether it's worth an upgrade for pixel six owners. But definitely if you're pixel four, possibly If you're pixel five, you wanna look at the pixel seven.

Ant Pruitt (02:05:31):
And I don't know if I said it the last time we talked about the update people were fussing about the battery life being crap after the updated and they had to patch it and I got the patch and it took it about two days and then my battery life was, it's way better goods. Great. I'm at to hear at 74% right now. At four o'clock in the afternoon.

Leo Laporte (02:05:53):
Yeah. I don't feel any up reason to upgrade the six. I love my six. I think it's great. No, six is fine. We'll find out tomorrow. They'll, they'll give us reasons. It's tens or two. It's the sad thing

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:03):
About tomorrow's, it's a wave list. I might get it.

Leo Laporte (02:06:06):
Cause you have famously floppy risk queen floppy. This is one of those cases where there is not gonna be anything new tomorrow. I'll be shocked if there is. Everything's been leaked by retailers by Amazon. Stacy,

Jeff Jarvis (02:06:20):
Did you get a nda? You seem to hit? You might know something tomorrow.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:27):
I honored their embargo.

Jeff Jarvis (02:06:29):
Embargo. So I have one question. Only one question is Leo W right or wrong about there being any surprises?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:36):
I can't tell you cuz I have embargo.

Jeff Jarvis (02:06:38):
Oh,

Leo Laporte (02:06:39):
Oh, oh. Exciting. Exciting. Do you wanna join the Well,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:43):
I couldn't think, I couldn't give you any indication whatsoever. I'm not gonna be a dick.

Leo Laporte (02:06:48):
Do you wanna join me tomorrow morning at 7:00 AM Join Ron and me and talk about it.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:06:53):
But you know what? I'm coming on. I'm coming on.

Jeff Jarvis (02:06:56):
Acted like you were towards Stacy. How did I, You could have acted like it took you a minute to decide.

Leo Laporte (02:07:01):
No.

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:02):
Yeah. Geez.

Ant Pruitt (02:07:04):
No.

Leo Laporte (02:07:05):
What? You're going on somebody else's show to talk about

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:07):
It. I'm Go, Is it all about what's is the Guardian show

Leo Laporte (02:07:10):
Tomorrow? Tech News Weekly. You're

Ant Pruitt (02:07:12):
Gonna go, That's it. I was like, Yeah, he's gonna talk. I'm on their show. She's talk matter tomorrow.

Leo Laporte (02:07:16):
Oh, you're gonna talk about Matter. But you may talk about the Pixel seven. I would bet with Micah. I mean, Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:23):
It's okay. I don't think he wants me to talk to him about that.

Leo Laporte (02:07:26):
Oh, he will

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:28):
<laugh>. Oh he

Ant Pruitt (02:07:29):
Will.

Leo Laporte (02:07:29):
Once he learns that you've, You have information. I think he

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:33):
Might, Well it'll have happened by then.

Leo Laporte (02:07:35):
Oh, you have information that we're all gonna know tomorrow?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:38):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:07:39):
Okay.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:07:41):
I said the devices to Kevin

Jeff Jarvis (02:07:43):
<laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:07:45):
If a Google billionaire can't make flying cars happen, Can anyone kittyhawk the air taxi startup? Larry Page funded is deed da. There's Larry saying, why did I put so much money into this?

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:00):
We haven't seen him in ages.

Leo Laporte (02:08:02):
I know. I think that's the talk where he was saying, I wish we had an island.

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:06):
I think it was the Island talk. I think it actually was my,

Leo Laporte (02:08:08):
Yeah. Decade ago the Flying car company was seen as one of the most likely to make breakthroughs in all the Google Moon shots. Guess not.

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:19):
No taxis.

Leo Laporte (02:08:20):
Guess not.

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:22):
We're stuck with

Leo Laporte (02:08:22):
Uber. Yeah, no. Uber is gone. And lest you take Google Maps to literally, you might wanna look at this tweet from Jason Scott at Text files, a series of pictures from real world places where Google Maps is wrong.

Jeff Jarvis (02:08:42):
<laugh>. I love this.

Leo Laporte (02:08:44):
Wrong. It's fun. Dead end. No lake access. Google Maps is wrong or Google is wrong. This road does not go through to Canyon Creek. Trailhead turn around or Google Maps is wrong. This is not Matthew Court Private Road. The

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:01):
Thing is, there are all signs that they went and had made professionally because it happened all the time.

Leo Laporte (02:09:08):
Here's one that was not made professionally made with a stencil and spray paint. Google Maps is wrong and they won't fix it. This is not the way to k Lockhead Co Bay. So don't go that way. It's a private road. Do not enter, man. There must be like a dozen people a day. Go down that road to make them make that sign. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:32):
That Ls,

Leo Laporte (02:09:32):
That's the beauty of, by the way, Open Street Maps is You can fix it. You could fix it. I

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:38):
Have Google Fix my

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:39):
But you had those issues

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:40):
Five doors down.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:09:43):
Something just skidded across your floor.

Leo Laporte (02:09:46):
Yeah. Who's Yeah, it's a large rat. Yeah. Bring the rat over here.

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:52):
Are you serious? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:09:53):
It's just a pet. Yes. Burke has a weird, I don't know. He's a little, It's it's

Jeff Jarvis (02:09:57):
Oh, that floor. I thought you meant mine. It's

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:01):
Oh, it's so cute. Sorry. I just was like, what? The just ran across the Oh. Oh my God. You

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:07):
Scared me to death. Stacy. She's the

Leo Laporte (02:10:09):
Sweetest. And you know what?

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:11):
She scares Stacy.

Leo Laporte (02:10:13):
Cause she took a shower with you, right? Oh, I

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:16):
Want a little

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:19):
At that. Look at that

Leo Laporte (02:10:22):
Shooter. This is how you get Stacey to stick around for the show. I

Jeff Jarvis (02:10:25):
Figured out <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:10:27):
I figured out piece. We don't, don't have to talk about chess. We don't have to talk about home. Musk,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:34):
Semiconductors,

Leo Laporte (02:10:35):
Musk. All we need is a

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:37):
None of those things. Puppies. Oh,

Leo Laporte (02:10:39):
What is sweetie? What's the name? Such a sweetie. What's her name? Lily. Lily. You're not gonna change it. Lily. Lily. Is that the new name? Lilly's the only name. That's the only name.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:10:51):
You're not gonna change it. Passive aggressive. Grandparenting right there. No, no,

Leo Laporte (02:10:55):
No, no. There were names given to these P Burke's. Mom and dad had five. Chewy. Chewy was the name. So you did change it. I think Lily is much better than Chewy. Oh, oh, oh. The boss is coming. The boss doesn't like me handling Lilly. The boss says Lily belongs to me. Actually, Lily has a sister that is called Un what? He earmarked. What do you call it? I'm adopted. Mommy. What?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:26):
I'm the adopted mommy.

Leo Laporte (02:11:28):
Oh, she's the adopted mommy. I thought you said you adopted Mommy.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:31):
He's like, I now have a pet.

Leo Laporte (02:11:34):
She's

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:35):
Very, It's

Leo Laporte (02:11:35):
Just like this one. Lily's very sweet. Yeah. So Chewy was the original name. Yeah. Lily's much better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Chewy's funny. I like Chewy because she does look like a whoop.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:11:43):
It does look like Chewy. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:11:44):
Yeah. Like a baby. Woo. You look good with that dog in your arms. You're natural. Aw. She is really about the sweet. What are they? They're toy poodles, but Well, they're, they're mixed. But I think there's poodle in there. Good. Yeah. They're not purebred much bigger. Yeah, but she's not gonna get much bigger her. They said her dad is really small.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:12:08):
Oh.

Leo Laporte (02:12:09):
Oh he sweet. And that's the Google's change. Love Stacey. You scared me. I didn't know whose house you were talking about. And I thought there was a rat in my house.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:12:23):
I'm sorry. I just saw something skidder across in the BA and I was like,

Leo Laporte (02:12:28):
I've just learned. Her full name is Lily Rosemary in the Jack of Hearts, which I'm guessing is a reference to an Ire McGee song. I don't know. Huh? Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan. Hey Rose. Me and the Jack of Hus. <laugh>. Oh yeah. My gosh. Now I know what you're talking about. Do you have a thing for us, Ms. Stacy?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:12:52):
Oh, I do. I didn't know we were there. You're

Leo Laporte (02:12:55):
There already. You survive. Stacy, you've arrived.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:12:58):
You've survived at that moment and woefully unprepared. I'm unboxing

Leo Laporte (02:13:02):
Device. This was over. The boys were planning for a full, The Caba was quiet except for the drilling and the world. The curve. You had been lifted in the GAD wheel. Shut down. Anyone with any since already lived down. I'm just filling for you.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:13:18):
I know, I, That's why I'm apologizing.

Leo Laporte (02:13:21):
<laugh>. Thanks Tee. The we're playing five goods Stood Bad. The stair. This is a great song. I forgot about this. So he's from Blood on the Tracks, right? Yeah. One of the great albums of all time. Now ladies and gentlemen, this musical interlude brought to you by Stacy's thing of the week.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:13:38):
It looks like a heat sink, but

Leo Laporte (02:13:40):
It not does. What is it? I

Stacey Higginbotham (02:13:42):
Was like, it looks like a heat sink. This is everything set. I wrote about this company about a year ago. And this is a box. It's kind of like a firewall, except the end application is a little bit different. So what happens is, I publish this in Publish, No, I plug this into my network. It's gonna act as a bridge to my router. All of my device data's gonna go through this. And what's gonna happen is I'm going to get on their app a score. And the score is gonna be like from one to 10, I think it's one to 10. Unless they changed it. It's going to say things like, Your home is super secure or your home sucks. And I know had I been in town last week, I would've had it available, been plugged in. But I don't plug in new devices without my family when I'm leaving. But I will let you know how it is. And it's a device and a service. And it's designed to basically help me assess how secure and high quality my devices are. If they're doing anything weird. But it is not giving me the log type data that I get from a firewall. So it's maybe a little bit more friendly for normal people.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:14:56):
I don't know if this is the level of information your audience will want, but it might be good

Leo Laporte (02:15:02):
Information. Mean your audience. I mean they're your audience too. <laugh>. My audience

Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:08):
Is actually, I feel like my audience is actually a little less nerdy. Believe it or not. I feel like your audience is very tech savvy. So your

Leo Laporte (02:15:15):
Audience probably, It's very nerdy. All

Jeff Jarvis (02:15:17):
Nerd. No, your audience is, Yeah. Cause it's, it's

Leo Laporte (02:15:21):
Here

Jeff Jarvis (02:15:21):
To have a subset of nerdom,

Leo Laporte (02:15:24):
Right? The more focused you are

Jeff Jarvis (02:15:25):
Nerd interest, but you have high interest in the subset of Nerdo. That's nerdier.

Leo Laporte (02:15:32):
So you use a firewall. I feel like you're a fire

Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:35):
Wallow. I do. When I, That's why I didn't plug this in there. I didn't wanna,

Leo Laporte (02:15:40):
Oops, sorry about the noise. This is Whoa. <laugh> a lady. A lady talking about why, I don't know what salad has to do with the Roomba with the, They

Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:49):
Give us convenience.

Leo Laporte (02:15:50):
A Roomba is a long way.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:52):
Oh it's it is telling you

Leo Laporte (02:15:53):
It's about

Stacey Higginbotham (02:15:54):
Security telling you the devices. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it does tell you, it gives you alerts and warnings. And I don't think you can buy this yet, but I'm really interested. Certainly access, basically it's a device I'm playing with in testing and it's a score. Yeah. It is a one to 10 score. So higher is more secure, lower is insecure. So next week after I've plugged it in, I'll come back and tell you.

Leo Laporte (02:16:16):
So it doesn't actually block it, it just tells you what's going on.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:16:19):
It gives you alerts and warnings. Yeah, but it doesn't,

Leo Laporte (02:16:22):
I guess it wouldn't wanna block it cuz that would break functionality.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:16:25):
Right? You don't like I can, my firewall will quarantine things if I tell it to you. But normally it just sends me a notification that's like, you've got some UN NP UN N P P U np what acronym help me. I'm losing it. Pour it forwarded going on here. And I'm like, oh no. And then it'll be like, did you

Leo Laporte (02:16:46):
P N P Universal plug and

Stacey Higginbotham (02:16:47):
P N P. That's it. I was like U N P B Q R A Q.

Leo Laporte (02:16:55):
So this is interesting. They're giving it, it sounds like they're giving it away in a year of service for $10 of setup fee. Just because they want the growth.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:04):
Yes. They have their early access program right now. Maybe I shouldn't have shown you this.

Leo Laporte (02:17:09):
Well, it's on the, No, it's on the webpage. Everything. Okay, good. set.com.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:13):
Everything's set.

Leo Laporte (02:17:14):
Yeah,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:14):
Everything's set Inc. Or

Leo Laporte (02:17:16):
Everything's. So really it's almost a research project on what kind of information IOT devices are spitting out.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:23):
Well they do wanna, It's a venture back company that will eventually charge you money. Or maybe they're gonna sell this data. I know they want to go corporate. So their whole hope is that with people working from home is that people will, like corporations, if you work for ibm, they'll give you this because IBM has a vested interest in their computers being on a secure home network then. So that's I think their big plan. I we'll see. But I'm excited to try it. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:17:55):
I think it's really interesting.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:17:56):
We have more tools like this. Is

Leo Laporte (02:17:57):
It compatible with a fire wallow or other security devices? No, no, no. Just one of the other,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:02):
This is, yeah. I don't need to be daisy chaining like six DPI things. My network will be like,

Leo Laporte (02:18:10):
Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah, I mean to some degree you're right. Certainly our security now listeners are probably more in interested in role in a role your own solution, like pf sense. And they can do all this stuff with device of their own making so to speak. But for a normal person, this might be quite an eye opener.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:18:35):
And that's probably, that's what I think would be the case. Right. And I think if you imagine them going after the corporate audience, then that makes sense. Cuz you would not wanna, If I gave a firewall, if I gave a firewall to my sister-in-law, I don't think she would ever click anything else in again. Right, right. She'd be like, Oh my god, <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:18:59):
So Steve generally talks about, this is what he uses a, it's from Net Gate, it's a security gateway that's runs PF Senses 189 bucks. Similar idea. It's like a small IOT device, but it's a full internet gateway. And of course one of the things you could do is look at the kinds of traffic that's being sent out and so forth. So yeah, that's a little more geeky. I, it's too geeky for me. I don't want to set this up up, but it's a good choice. If you want something. Even more horsepower numbers, Mr. Jeff Jarvis numbers.

Jeff Jarvis (02:19:34):
So the Washington Post had a fascinating story using data that is also on the rundown. I just added it for the most common restaurant cuisine in every state. And a chain restaurant mystery. And the mystery is this, Why does it correlate? And notice I said correlate not cause. Why does it correlate that the states with the areas, the places with the most chain restaurants voted for Trump over Biden. Now we could go and start to make a thriller trash joke, but I, as a fan of Taco Bell, I hope you don't

Leo Laporte (02:20:11):
What are the number one chain restaurants in places like Kentucky, West Virginia? Is it Stuckey's is Waffle. Waffle House.

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:22):
Give w, Waffle House. We click for a hundred on the next link in the, Well we get to the punchline here first. Cause this boiler is so they checked on education, they checked on all kinds of things and they did not find correlation between the restaurants and what was going on. And what they found was it was car culture.

Leo Laporte (02:20:39):
Yeah. That

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:40):
Makes places with more cars, of course. Also more for Trump. And I think California

Leo Laporte (02:20:45):
Is a lot of cars. I mean, yeah, we're definitely a car culture up here in Petaluma,

Jeff Jarvis (02:20:51):
I don't think. But you also have buses and things there. We're not. If you go to the next link on Washington,

Leo Laporte (02:21:00):
Washington's big on food. Most of the west and southwest is max Mexican, as you would expect.

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:09):
Midwest is pizza.

Leo Laporte (02:21:12):
It's a weird story. The only place where Hawaiian is number one is down here in Hawaii. <laugh>. Just the, I thought that was interesting. Funny how that works. There's the pizza belt

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:26):
The upper Midwest, which really means beer.

Leo Laporte (02:21:29):
Yeah. But the blue is the fast food belt. Idaho, Utah, Missouri, and the southeast.

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:35):
So if you go to the next link in the rundown, sir.

Leo Laporte (02:21:38):
Yes. Oh wait, there's, wait a minute. I'm not done. In the

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:40):
Rundown.

Leo Laporte (02:21:41):
In the rundown. In the rundown. Oh, okay. Cause

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:43):
There's the data cuz you can play. It's interactive. Oh. You can now put in one of your chains on the right there and see where they are.

Leo Laporte (02:21:51):
Oh, interesting.

Jeff Jarvis (02:21:52):
So on the, there comes a select an option. No, just stay in the US please.

Leo Laporte (02:21:58):
A and D. Any of the restaurants should we do? We'll do Waffle House. Let's do Waffle House. Let's

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:03):
Do

Leo Laporte (02:22:03):
Waffle House. Is that your recommendation? An all the waffle always are all over the place. No,

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:08):
No, no, no. That's just the,

Leo Laporte (02:22:09):
Oh yeah, there we are. This is Waffle House Country right here. No waffle houses out in the west. Take me back. But Arizona has,

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:17):
Arizona has some. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:22:19):
How about Stuckey's? I always think of Stuckey's when I think of the south. They don't even have stuckey's. Don't think they exist anymore. Or Stuckey's gone.

Ant Pruitt (02:22:28):
I've seen Stuckey's, but not in the south. I've seen.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:22:31):
What about Denny's?

Leo Laporte (02:22:32):
Oh, we

Ant Pruitt (02:22:33):
Just, our net in the South.

Leo Laporte (02:22:34):
We're so excited. Our new Denny's is just opening up here in Alma. We got the new Denny's. Very Popeye's.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:22:41):
Are Mr. Bojangles, are you a Bojangles or a Popeyes person?

Ant Pruitt (02:22:44):
I'm a Popeyes person. Popeyes. But Jingles is more popular in the Carolinas.

Leo Laporte (02:22:50):
Mr. Bow, Jangles. Oh, you look at that. It is definitely. Oh, Kolai country. Wow. <laugh>.

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:57):
Woo.

Leo Laporte (02:22:57):
Wait

Jeff Jarvis (02:22:58):
Versus Popeye's.

Leo Laporte (02:22:59):
Popeye's. Should we look at Popeye's? Yeah, sure is. Wow. This is actually this completely worthless. No, that's Papa Johns. Wait minute. Hold on. <laugh>,

Ant Pruitt (02:23:09):
I think you were just looking at Papa.

Leo Laporte (02:23:10):
I was Louisiana. Kitchen threw me. They're all over now. They're everywhere. It's growing. They're,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:23:17):
They're not enough near me.

Jeff Jarvis (02:23:19):
Yeah. Best chicken sandwich. Oh.

Leo Laporte (02:23:21):
Oh, how about White Castle? Oh no, there's no White Castle in

Jeff Jarvis (02:23:26):
Here. Not what?

Leo Laporte (02:23:26):
I guess what kind of stupid. Okay, that Oh, oh, you can, I'm filtering. I'm filtering and out. I'm filtering here. Filter frequency less than or equal to 20. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't understand data. How about Taco Bell? Who likes Taco Bell around here?

Jeff Jarvis (02:23:46):
I do. Mm-hmm.

Leo Laporte (02:23:47):
<affirmative>. They're everywhere. They're owned by Pepsi. They are. They're ah,

Jeff Jarvis (02:23:53):
They're very important news. Very important news. Taco Bell. The return of the in Rito.

Ant Pruitt (02:23:59):
The who? So what toe?

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:01):
The In Rito. It's a Taco Bell invention. It's what brought me to Taco Bell in the first place. But I lived in California. I ate the And Chardo it disappeared. Is coming back. This is important.

Leo Laporte (02:24:11):
Yeah. But what about Mr. Doodles mansion? <laugh>, The artist covered his mansion in What

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:18):
About Cracker Barrel? Oh, this guy. This. Oh yeah. This man was, I thought there was a restaurant there. Cracker

Ant Pruitt (02:24:22):
Bear. That's pretty good too.

Leo Laporte (02:24:22):
That would be a good name for a restaurant though. I need somewhere at Mr. Doodles. Manion. Mr.

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:26):
Doodles mansion.

Leo Laporte (02:24:27):
Sure. I'd eat there.

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:28):
So this guy in England has a mansion. Yeah. Cause he is a, he's an artist who has money and they painted the entire everything in it. Completely white. And then he doodled every possible surface. The video, I think you can play without sound. I dunno if it has sound or not. Doesn't matter.

Leo Laporte (02:24:42):
I'm gonna guess. He

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:43):
Use a TikTok video.

Leo Laporte (02:24:43):
This is kind of more a D H D than a d d

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:49):
<laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:24:51):
That would just be my guess. Holy cow.

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:53):
You that post on Instagram. I'm post on

Leo Laporte (02:24:55):
Instagram. Psychotic.

Jeff Jarvis (02:24:57):
It is. It is.

Leo Laporte (02:24:58):
Okay. Wow. And I feel sorry for his wife. Is this his

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:03):
Wife? His wife right there.

Leo Laporte (02:25:04):
Mrs. Doodle.

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:06):
Oh, me. And that one.

Leo Laporte (02:25:08):
Mr. Doodle, the other one got married.

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:11):
Go go up Mr. Doodle. On the Twitter. There's a tweet. There's a tweet there. Go up. No, no, no. Go back to the story.

Leo Laporte (02:25:17):
Go

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:17):
Back to the story.

Leo Laporte (02:25:18):
I just love following your directions. You know, that's live for on this show. Now

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:23):
You're on the guard check. Looked on the wrong thing. You're on the Guardian DC Can't tell you anything. Very simple instructions to follow.

Leo Laporte (02:25:31):
Aunt. Do you have a pick of the week?

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:33):
Go to go to, It's Mr. Doodle on Twitter. You'll see him doodling his house. It's Mr. Doodle. You don't need to see this. Very cool. Now we really have to see. I need an aviation Sta

Leo Laporte (02:25:47):
Here. Here a Mr. And Mrs. Doodle in bed. He looks like a sweet guy.

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:52):
There you go. There you go.

Leo Laporte (02:25:53):
Oh, he's nuts.

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:55):
Yeah, he is. Look at this. Look at this.

Leo Laporte (02:25:57):
What is he doodling with?

Jeff Jarvis (02:25:59):
One of those big round.

Leo Laporte (02:26:01):
Yeah. Is he gonna get high from the fumes? I hope he's okay. Wow.

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:06):
Well, I think he started that way. <laugh>. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:26:09):
It's actually very cool. It's it's very,

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:11):
It's claustrophobic as hell.

Leo Laporte (02:26:13):
Yeah. I wouldn't wanna live his house. It's like Keith Haring. Oh my Lord. Lost his marbles. Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:17):
Exactly. What happens when he is done? He's

Leo Laporte (02:26:20):
Done. Get a new house. He's

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:21):
Done

Leo Laporte (02:26:22):
Time for a new house. A roller will

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:24):
Fix all that. He could just buy new furniture

Leo Laporte (02:26:26):
Or just a paint roller. As John says. You just roll over. Paint roller over. Okay.

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:30):
All right. Wow. Well, no, now his wife will color it all.

Leo Laporte (02:26:34):
Wow. Yeah. I did. He gotta admire that. The kind of single minded determination. Oh, he's,

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:39):
He's, he buys the joke. Ben,

Leo Laporte (02:26:42):
Did you see the 10 year old who's selling his paintings for 150,000 to $200,000?

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:49):
You know the NFTs?

Leo Laporte (02:26:50):
No, no. They're regular paintings. No, they're paintings and they're really good. Nice. Not that good. I think they're pretty good.

Jeff Jarvis (02:26:58):
Oh my God. Leo Standard for art.

Leo Laporte (02:27:02):
I'm gonna show you his pictures and you All right. Who should we say would be the judge of this? Should, here's the, he's a fifth grader, Andre Valencia, his paintings of, So for more than $125,000, would you like to see a few of these? Look at that. They call him a little Picasso. I think he's kind of a genius. And he's not painting all of his house over. I want more pictures though. <laugh>. Where I want more picture. Maybe the copyright prohibits. He's selling his paintings in galleries to investors who think he's gonna be the next guy.

Jeff Jarvis (02:27:46):
Nice.

Leo Laporte (02:27:49):
$230,000

Jeff Jarvis (02:27:49):
Young

Leo Laporte (02:27:49):
Man. Yep. He has solo exhibit in Soho. All 35 works. Were sold. Don't look at this. This looks good. Don't you think? That looks like good heart. It's very not

Jeff Jarvis (02:28:02):
My thing, but hey, he can capitalize heavy. I kinda

Leo Laporte (02:28:05):
Like, I kind think they're pretty good here. I have, I bought one. Get some. I thought maybe you, I thought I spent, I only spent, I have to say maybe this isn't his best one. Cause I only spent like 50,000 on this

Jeff Jarvis (02:28:16):
<laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:28:17):
It's just one of his people. I

Ant Pruitt (02:28:20):
Love that one, man.

Jeff Jarvis (02:28:21):
One

Leo Laporte (02:28:21):
Of his paintings pretty good though, huh?

Ant Pruitt (02:28:24):
I love that one. Pretty good.

Leo Laporte (02:28:26):
<affirmative>. Yeah. I like it. <laugh> could you maybe didn't quite maybe ran outta paint over there, but that's okay.

Ant Pruitt (02:28:33):
<laugh>,

Leo Laporte (02:28:34):
Thank you very much for bringing that in. That's

Ant Pruitt (02:28:37):
Stacy.

Leo Laporte (02:28:37):
We hidden for a moment there. Horrifying. And your pick of the week.

Ant Pruitt (02:28:43):
I didn't really have anything, but I came across this one.

Leo Laporte (02:28:45):
That's fine. You could stop right there. <laugh>. Oh, okay. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Ant Pruitt (02:28:50):
I came across this so competi, people having fun with Google Street View on these. There's people that are going to the same spots wherever they are

Leo Laporte (02:29:01):
Around. She must always go to this store and Google caught her twice, nine years apart.

Ant Pruitt (02:29:06):
Right? This

Leo Laporte (02:29:07):
Wasn't

Ant Pruitt (02:29:08):
On purpose. A couple of tweets from people saying that, or she has no life. And it was on purpose. I

Leo Laporte (02:29:13):
Think she just lives in this corner. She says it's part of her one mile walk to work. It's just a coincidence. Obviously <affirmative>, but wow. Cause you can't know ahead of time or you don't.

Ant Pruitt (02:29:24):
No, you don't. My uncle is on the street view for where his house is and my dad's on imagining. Tiny town, South Kki Lackey. You hear a car coming down the road Star. See? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:29:40):
It's the Google car. So I always moon it stop. I just moved it. I hope I'm gonna get in the street view, but so far, no, No luck. <laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (02:29:50):
Lastly this is October, 2022. This is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. So I'd like to encourage everyone to check out national breast cancer.org. Org. Go find yourself a shirt such as the one that I'm wearing today. So if I get,

Leo Laporte (02:30:07):
Boy, let me see your shirt there, Aunt. Oh, I love it. Oh, that's great. That's be, It's not pink either. It's a black with a three fists, three different colors. And the purple. Of course, the, It's supposed to be pink, I think. And you're wearing the pink.

Ant Pruitt (02:30:20):
It's

Leo Laporte (02:30:20):
Supposed to be pink. You're wearing the pink. I see the bracelet too. The rubber.

Ant Pruitt (02:30:23):
And I still have the bands. Yeah. Still have the bands. Nice. We take this quite seriously here in the Pruitt family because we've had several people in the family affected by this. So yeah, we try to tell people to

Leo Laporte (02:30:36):
Nice. Make

Ant Pruitt (02:30:37):
Sure they support that organization and get checked.

Leo Laporte (02:30:42):
You bet.

Ant Pruitt (02:30:42):
And women,

Leo Laporte (02:30:43):
You bet. Yeah.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:30:44):
Go get your mammograms, ladies.

Leo Laporte (02:30:49):
This is the one you're wearing. I think that I'm black. One looks really nice, actually. I

Ant Pruitt (02:30:53):
Really went with the black one because I like the contrast. The way it shows off the diverse skin tones there. It's not just white people. Everybody

Leo Laporte (02:31:03):
There. Yep. Yep. Maybe I'll get a pink suit and wear it for the next show. I'd like Barbie

Stacey Higginbotham (02:31:09):
COR is in right

Leo Laporte (02:31:10):
Now. I always wanted a pink suit. I was inspired. It's called Barbie cor. I love it. Yeah. Even if a guy does it, it's called Barbie cor.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:31:19):
I mean, that's the whole pink trend. Valenti has a lot of pink suits for women. I assume there's men pink suits. Why not?

Leo Laporte (02:31:27):
I thinking

Stacey Higginbotham (02:31:28):
It's gonna be, It's Ken Core Be

Leo Laporte (02:31:29):
The new trend is gonna be Des Sanders's White Boots. Oh, did you see us? And you see, See the Twitter memes? Oh, they're great <laugh>. Great <laugh> DeSantis, of course. Visiting the devastation. Horrible devastation. Ro by a Hurricane Ian. But he decided to wear I think perhaps Mistakenly wasn't a good fashion choice. White boots. Maybe that's all they had. Well, I

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:03):
Think they're just FEMA boots. Yeah, I think they just gave

Leo Laporte (02:32:05):
Them fema. They're FEMA boots. I know. But any chance to make fun of boots?

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:11):
I mean, I'm not a DeSantis fan. I'm just like, Hey.

Leo Laporte (02:32:14):
Showed

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:14):
Up. And they were like, Yeah, I mean was

Leo Laporte (02:32:17):
It's what others are wearing as well, so yeah. Yeah. But then of course the white boot meme. Oh, this hilarious one got engaged. This has less to do with technology than homeopathic medicine even.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:34):
It really does. You guys, I'm like, are we really talking about

Leo Laporte (02:32:37):
Boots? It's

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:37):
A meme. We're talking about him. <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:32:41):
They're kinky all They're

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:43):
Kinky boots. Y'all are standing between me and an aviation and I have been up since

Leo Laporte (02:32:48):
Six. Oh, you want some gin? I get it.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:32:50):
And I need the aviation <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:32:54):
All right. Stacey Ebo. We're gonna let her go get drunk. Stacy ont.com. The fabulous website, the newsletters, free, lots of events. And of course, the very, very good podcast Stacey and Kevin do together called the IOT podcast. And matter is the matter of the hour. I'm sure if you want more matter conversation.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:33:15):
Yeah. You know what? Well, I should have made this my pick. Oh, well, I got

Leo Laporte (02:33:20):
Save it for next week.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:33:22):
All right. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:33:23):
That's good. You're gonna need one every, Put it on the rundown now. Unless for next. Really? You just throw in the towel and say, I'm never coming back. In which case, do it now. <laugh>.

Stacey Higginbotham (02:33:34):
She's

Leo Laporte (02:33:34):
Throwing now this sheet of bake speaking about it, you this

Stacey Higginbotham (02:33:37):
Shit. I was checking. I'm, I'm here next week, but I'm not here the week after. Did you get new

Leo Laporte (02:33:43):
Earbud? I, Those are nice. Are you wearing different earbuds? Those are, Those look good. No,

Stacey Higginbotham (02:33:47):
These are the same earbuds. These are the jobbers. They're, They look good, but they match my hair

Leo Laporte (02:33:51):
And match. Maybe that's it. They match. They go very well with your coach. You

Stacey Higginbotham (02:33:55):
My whole everything.

Leo Laporte (02:33:57):
Okay. Jeff Jovi, he's the director of the 10 Night Center for Entrepreneurial Journalism, I think. Great new Mark, Graduate school of journalism at the city. Great University of New York. Former TV guy critic, Frank Sinatra called him a bomb ray call Cro. Called him a nickel millionaire. Murphy Brown called him a bottomless pit. And go

Jeff Jarvis (02:34:16):
By my book Preorder my book at by b y gut bitly slash by B Y guttenberg,

Leo Laporte (02:34:24):
B I dot Y slash by B Guttenberg, Guttenberg <laugh>. Bye bye. Guttenberg. Aunt Pruitt. Hands on photography. What's coming up on hop? What?

Jeff Jarvis (02:34:42):
This week we're getting back into the world

Leo Laporte (02:34:44):
Of Hello? You're sounding like a robot, Ed. What? Oh, I think your mic might have gotten unplugged. Oh, lobotomy. Ohmy El, He de Taco Bell does not take criticism well. Trapped to the Jungle Gym of Life. <laugh>, He lived tomato fields in New Jersey, formerly one of San Francisco's 100 most eligible bachelors. I want to add a clue on Jeopardy. No, it well, sort of of, They talked about the money that the examiner was gonna give. For what? Oh, Skylab thing. Oh, the piece of the rocket. Yeah. For to the ground. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so that was your, In fact, somebody sent me a history or something of that, Of Skylab with you talking on the radio about it. Yeah, yeah. From way back when. How are you doing, Anne? Are you plugged that back in?

Jeff Jarvis (02:35:45):
We can talk about homeopathic medicine until you're

Leo Laporte (02:35:48):
Ready. <laugh>. I don't wanna kill Stacy. Even though it's just water. It could kill Stacy <laugh>. I'm like, Oh man. Okay. What about, I mean, ah, you still, you're still mess up. You're all mess up.

Jeff Jarvis (02:36:02):
Whatever it is. Watch hands on

Leo Laporte (02:36:03):
Photography. Hands on photography. Do tv slash hop. Don't forget Ant Pruit the website. Ant pruit.com/prince. And on the Twitter and the Instagram, he's an underscore pruit. This

Jeff Jarvis (02:36:17):
Is ant play a meme. Now I

Leo Laporte (02:36:20):
Love I Time. Yeah,

Jeff Jarvis (02:36:22):
I blew

Leo Laporte (02:36:23):
That. It's pronounced if efficacy, I believe. Unless you're at Popeye's, in which case it's a efficacy. Ladies and gentlemen, that's it for this week at Google. Goodbye. Goodbye. So long.

Speaker 7 (02:36:36):
Don't miss all about Android. Every week we talk about the latest news, hardware, apps, and now all the developer goodness happening in the Android ecosystem. I'm Jason Howell, also joined by Ron Richards, Florence Ion and our newest co-host on the panel When to Dow, Who brings her developer chops. Really great stuff. We also invite people from all over the Android ecosystem to talk about this mobile platform we love so much. Join us every Tuesday, all about Android on twit tv.