This Week in Enterprise Tech Episode 543 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Lou Maresca (00:00:00):
On this week in Enterprise tech, we have Mr. Brian Chi, Mr. Curtis Franklin back on this show today. Ubiquiti recent data breaches reads like a bad hacker script, but it brings some interesting trends and some light to some of the trends that are happening in cyber crime. We're gonna discuss some of those. Plus we also have a great guest, someone who might actually bring the mojo back into infrastructure and operations tooling. We have Mike Wagner, he's co-founder and c e o of Meier on the show. And we're gonna chat about some use cases like MLB and Major League Baseball, actually using Kubernete's powered analytics and cool stuff there. So you definitely should miss it. Twk on the set

TWIT Intro (00:00:37):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is Twitch twit.

Lou Maresca (00:00:50):
This is twt this week, enterprise Tech, episode 5 43, recorded May 12th, 2023, bare Metal Mojo. This episode of this week, weekend, enterprise Tech is brought to you by Thanks Canary. Detect attackers on your network while avoiding irritating false alarms. Get the alerts that matter for 10% off on a 60 day moneyback guarantee. Go to canary.tools/twi, enter the code twit and how Hear About US Box. And by ACI learning, CIOs and CISOs agree that attracting and retaining talent is critical with an average completion rate of over 80%. Your team deserves the entertaining and cutting edge training. Day one. Fill out the form@go.acilearning.com slash twi for more information on a free two week training trial for your team.

(00:01:45):
Welcome to twt this week at Enterprise Tech, this show that is dedicated to you, the enterprise professional, the IT pro, and the geek who just wants to know how this wolfs connected. I'm your host, Lewis Maka, your guide to this big world of the enterprise, but I can't guide you by myself. I need to bring in the professionals and the experts. We have to bring in our very own Mr. Curtis Franklin, he's principal analyst at amia, and someone who spends a lot of time in the enterprise solving problems. Curtis, welcome back to the show. What's keeping you busy this week?

Curt Franklin (00:02:13):
Well, it has been a busy week. We're getting some reports ready. The aftermath of rsa got some things going on around risk quantification. In other words, it's easy to say, my situation is risky, but exactly how risky is it? And how would you know if you made it better or worse? Well, that's where risk quantification comes in, and that's one of the things I'm researching also, beginning to look really hard at the way AI is being used in security. Now we know how it's being used in search and in art and other things, but as part of security, it's being used in some interesting ways. So that's one of the things that I'm gonna be looking at over the next few months. Beyond all that, it's hard to believe, but it's getting ready, getting time to get ready for black hats. So putting together the beginnings of some presentations I'm gonna be making out there. We've got the AMIA Analyst Summit early in the week, so have to be ready to stand up on stage and sound all intelligent for the folks who come to see us.

Lou Maresca (00:03:19):
Amazing how time flies. Black hat's coming up already. When's when's Black hat at?

Curt Franklin (00:03:23):
Black Hat is the second week in August. Okay. so

Lou Maresca (00:03:27):
A little bit of ways, but not too far away.

Curt Franklin (00:03:29):
Not too far. The, you know, it'll be here before you know it.

Lou Maresca (00:03:34):
Well, well, speaking of busy, we also have our very own Mr. Brian Chi. He's our favorite network Geek Plus he's also trying to wire up the world with affordable fiber. How'd that, how's that going? Cheaper?

Brian Chee (00:03:46):
Oh, fiber's going great. That inexpensive Chinese fusion splicer works just dandy. But this last week I was actually spending some time with my business partner with Sky Fiber, and we were at the WindCom conference over at the JW Marriott here in Orlando. And I got to talk to a bunch of different wireless vendors, including Tara, which are our famous Moe works for. But what's really cool is I also got to talk to the folks at buy sell and b e C about private L T E and possibly using that at the fairgrounds so that even if the cell tower c, which is on the edge of the property is congested, a private cell means we can provide high priority lte services to things like handhelds doing ticket sale or ticket check-ins and things like that. So we're taking a good hard look at that as a technology. And today we're gonna talk about another use of AI that oughta come closer to home. Oughta be fun.

Lou Maresca (00:04:57):
Definitely. Well, speaking of today, we have lots to talk about, so we just definitely jump in. Now, the story behind the recent ubiquity breach reads like a bad hacker film script, but it brings out some pretty interesting trends that we're seeing from cyber crime. We're gonna discuss some of them. Plus we also have a great guest on the show, someone who might put the mojo back into infrastructure operations tool. And we have Mike Wagner's, co-founder and c e o of Mefi on the show today. And as a bonus, we might actually get to talk about Major League Baseball and how they have Kubernetes powered analytics. Some, some cool stuff to talk about. So definitely stick around. But first, like we always do, ton of stuff happening in the enterprise. So let's go ahead and jump into this week's news Blips Google io is serving up some spicy AI news venturebeat.com has given us the low down.

(00:05:42):
Google has unleashed its Palm two language model. Among other things that are coming out here. Google's amping up its tensor flow ecosystem with open source ML updates. They've got DT Tensor technology for turbocharged model training and scaling. No more sluggishness from your fancy data sets out there. Plus they also talked about the TensorFlow Quantization API preview release. It's all about making models efficient and saving you some sweet development cash. Now, who doesn't love budget friendly ai? Right? Well, today they also have to talk about Caris, the Python Deep Learning Suite, which is getting makeover. They've added Kara CV for computer vision and Karas N L P for natural language Processing. Now, according to Alex Spinelli, Google's ML guru, they wanna spread the love and empower all developers no matter where they're coming from. And they, they're not just building AI for themselves, but they're creating a rising tide that lifts all ships up.

(00:06:33):
Spinelli swears by a tensor flow, their ML workhorse, and with the DT tensor upgrades, they're injecting more horsepower to keep up with the growing ML demands. Now, ML is a hungry beast. It always is craving more data, more power, more infrastructure. So that's where new CARUS updates bring extra muscle there. You can now create your own mind-blowing computer vision and language wizardry that's going on there. Plus, JAX two TF has also debuted making Jax models easily usable with TensorFlows like speaking two different AI languages and having a handy translator available to you. Now, you may have also remembered Pie torch tensor flows cheeky rival. While Google loves options and supports developer choice, of course, but they're confident that TensorFlow is the ultimate power horse for large scale high performance systems. This year, Google IO was amped up to become a playground for ai. Goodness. We know why, obviously, but some, some competitors going on there, they're dishing out powerful language models, ML tools, updates that make your head spin there. Google definitely wants you to dive in, create aiag and conquer the world.

Curt Franklin (00:07:39):
Well, the US cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency or CSA, is aiming to help us small businesses, election and offices, local government agencies, hospitals, and K through 12 school systems organizations, CISA describes as cyber poor to shore up their cyber defenses and respond more quickly to attacks. According to an article at Dark Reading, word of this small organization concentration came straight from CISA director Jen Easterly in remarks on May 10th at the sixth annual hack the capital event in McClean, Virginia. The news doesn't mean that CISA is going to ignore the large organizations that admit its traditional focus, but it does mean that CISA recognizes that there are considerable differences in the needs and means of large and small organizations. The focus on smaller organizations acknowledges that often small to medium businesses, local government agencies and schools have been overlooked and not included in the push to create more resilient organizations.

(00:08:44):
Now, this overlooking has been especially damaging as malware publishers and ransomware criminals turned their attention to the smaller organizations less likely to be able to afford advanced defenses, analytics, and resilience products and services. In addition, smaller organizations are where the action is going to be. After all 99% of all businesses in the US have 250 employees or fewer, according to us census data. Now, one way in which the attention to small businesses is being seen is through the development of best practices. While the cybersecurity framework published by NIST is considered the gold standard for creating a cybersecurity plan for a business, that document is hard to understand and implementation is difficult. Easterly said, and I will echo that. CISA has thus introduced cybersecurity performance goals or CPGs, which aim to be lower cost and lower effort goals that organizations can take to improve the cybersecurity posture. These are, by the way, goals that are based on the NIST framework, but these break it down into simpler, easier to swallow chunks, still understanding whether these initiatives mean they're meet their goals is going to be challenging. Why? Well, easterly said it this way, the big question is how do you actually measure reduction of risk? Which is hard because we don't understand the universe of how many events there are. It's all anecdotal. Whatever numbers are out there, whatever studies are out there, whatever vendor, it's all really just a guess.

Brian Chee (00:10:36):
So thank you to the folks at PC Mag Oliver for this story. This, this is actually kind of fun. The, we've been talking all about ai, ai, ai, ai, and I'm sure you folks are getting tired of this, but here's something just a little different. Wendy's drive through orders are gonna be taken by chatbot. So customers using Wendy's drive through service won't be talking to a human employee for much longer. From this coming June, a chatbot is set to take over as the Wall Street Journal article says Wendy's opted to use Google's natural language software to train an AI capable of taking food orders. Wendy's chief executive Todd Pen, gore says the chatbot is so good. Quote, you won't know you're talking to anyone but an employee unquote. Well, Wendy's had to work closely with Google to fine tune its large language model to cope with the vast array of ways in which customers order food at the drive-through.

(00:11:37):
The customizations required include unique terms, phrases, and acronyms. That way any combination of food items can be handled. But so can common terms such as Biggie bags or someone just asking for a jbc Thomas Curian, c e o of Google Cloud admits a drive-through AI is actually quote, a very complicated technical problem. However, Wendy's chatbot is expected to be very accomplished and can even handle a customer changing their mind halfway through ordering. On top of that, it will promote daily specials in attempt to upsell customers in a bid to increase the size and range of food items ordered Well. Hmm, as much as we hate those voice menus on calls, I'm wondering whether this'll work or backfire. We can, of course, remember that large language models do need training in. One must wonder what kind of training went into the Wendy Bot. I would challenge them to see if this is going to work in someplace like say, Scotland or Hawaii. Cause boy, hi and English is gonna be really tough, and I seriously doubt that went into their large language model,

Lou Maresca (00:12:51):
Heard of real world evidence data platforms. Well, if you have, you know, Aon, who's leading the pack, they're like data wizards providing transparent, scientifically validated answers on medical treatments and technology. Now, the reason I wanted to talk about this tech is I personally relate to a Dion's mission, which is to help healthcare decision makers make informed choices that they've been armed with their adion evidence platform with the latest scientific advancements for a while. They also model themselves as superheroes of healthcare analytics, fighting the villains of uncertainty and guiding decisions with a lot of confidence using a lots of data. Now, hot off the press this week from PR News, Adion has dropped some interesting news around a new product called Aon Discover. I think of it as a GPS for scientists, analysts in the biopharmaceutical and MedTech realm. It helps 'em explore data, generate hypothesis, and uncover insights faster than you could say, abrogate A.

(00:13:41):
Now what does it it do? Who wouldn't wish for their own gen in a bottle, right? To, to basically grant their wishes on data. Well, with Aon discover finding and analyzing the right data sets seem to become a walk in the park. No more getting lost in the lab or the files or scratching your head and confusion. You could define populations, ask burning questions, get results quicker and even quicker than Usain Bolt sprints to the finish line. And its dream come true for that expansion of mind blowing hypothesis generation that's out there today. Now, as I dug into the news more, I found some pretty interesting stuff about Aon Discover. Here's, here's some of the things. They have a lot of bells and whistles for, in fact, they have customizable templates that create faster cohorts. In fact, they have it's audible. So that means you can actually iterate like a sham.

(00:14:28):
You can find transparency and consistency in there, and it plays nice with the different data sets and models and the other adion applications that are out out there to give you more flexibility. And something that's really making it compelling is that it's a complex tool, but it's also very user-friendly as your favorite social media app that's out there Now, Dar, Dr. Jeremy RAs and the president, co-founder and chief Technology Officer Aon, he's over the moon, obviously around unleashing this new tech to the world. He's heard the cries of their, of the data enthusiasts that are out there. They're craving everyday insights with usability and he wants discover to actually deliver on that. And in fact, discover seamlessly integrates with ad on's substantiate application for when you need to actually scale up and take it up a notch with your data analysis. Now we need more and more companies out there that take on complex issues like healthcare and pharmaceuticals.

(00:15:18):
Ones that can really bring data to the table and create the evidence for our future Health. Well, folks that does it for the blips. Next up we have the news bytes. But before we get to the news bytes, we do have to thank a really great sponsor of this week at Enterprise Tech. And that's Thanks Canary. Now everyone knows Honeypots are a great idea. So why don't all internal networks run them right? Good question. Right simple. Because with all of our network problems, nobody needs one more machine to administer and worry about. We know the benefits that Honeypots can bring, but the cost and effort of deployment always drops honeypots to the bottom of list things to do well, things canary changes. This canaries can be deployed in minutes, even on complex networks giving you all the benefits without the admin downsides. The canary triggers are simple.

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(00:17:55):
And we thank things Canary for their support of this weekend. Enterprise Tech. Well, folks, it's time for the bites. Now, this first bite has a pretty interesting story cause it, it reads like a hacker film script. Now, Nicholas Sharp, former ubiquity engineer, he got into serious Trump, some serious trouble. He swiped a whole bunch of con confidential data out there. He demanded a whopping 1.9 million in ransom from his employer. When they refused, he decided to make the stolen data public only, not the brightest movie. He asked me to Sharp, tried to play it cool. And during his trial, he said that the cyber attack was just a security drill gone wrong. He claimed that he wanted to make ubiquity safer for everyone, but the judge wasn't buying it. That's right. She told him he had no right to play God and hand down actually handed down a sentence of six years in prison, big whopping six years.

(00:18:47):
That's pretty, pretty, pretty crazy. Now, the prosecutor, Damien Williams, wasn't pulling any punches either. He called Sharp an inve inveterate liar and data thief who was out for money in glory. Williams argued that a lighter sentence would be more of a mere slap on the wrist. So he pushed for eight to 10 years. Ugh, sharp, got off with a little easier with six, but Williams still considered it serious penalty, penalty for callous crimes. Before I bring the others back in, let's talk about how Sharp got caught, cuz this is a good one. You may or may not think he made a rookie mistake, but let me, let us know in the comments, well, copying all the data, well, why actually, actually copying the data from ubiquity networks. His V P N had a little hiccup and he went offline. And when it came back up, ubiquity caught his home IP address not so sharp for Mr.

(00:19:32):
Sharp, but the fund doesn't stop there. Sharp kept digging in his own grave. He kept accessing this stolen data, trying to cover his tracks by deleting evidence and making it look like other employees were to blame. Now, eventually his colleagues caught on and they hit him with a ransom email. He, he hit them with a ransom email. And even though ubiquity had been taken the bait, they called the F b i instead. So Sharp thought it was clever by posing as a whiff, whistleblower spreading false stories about UES responses to cyber tech. But little did he know the F B I, he had his number on the end. Sharp actions caused ubiquity a ton of money. In fact, they spent over a 1.5 million in countless hours trying to fix their problem. They're the mess he made. And he planted those false reports. Their stock prices tanked.

(00:20:17):
They cost him almost 4 billion in market value. Talk about costly a mistake. Now, Nicholas Sharp thought he could outsmart everyone, get away with his crimes, but he got caught. Now faces all in the slammer. Long term sentence here, lesson learned, crime doesn't pay, especially when you're aren't as sharp as you think. Now, I wanna talk to my co-host here because this is a good one. This is a good topic that we should talk about. People trying to be hackers and cyber crime, trying to make money. What, what do you think of this guy? Like, you know, was he trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes or was he really trying to call out a problem?

Brian Chee (00:20:52):
Trooper,

Curt Franklin (00:20:53):
What do you mean? Criminal who's a rank amateur?

Brian Chee (00:20:57):
Yeah.

Curt Franklin (00:20:57):
Well no, no, no question about that because he violated every, every convention of being an what, what we call in the industry an ethical hacker, right? Or a researcher. I mean, there are people who do try to find vulnerabilities, go in, do penetration testing and, and all that. But we should note that ubiquity has a bug bounty program. As an employee, it would be tough for him to be part of it, but if he had wanted to, he could try to sign up as, as a, a bug bounty member. And then he would be registered. They would know who he was. He would be saying from the get-go, I'm trying to help you with your security. That's not at all what happened because let, let's, you know, 0.1, ethical hackers. Don't ask for ransom. You know, let's, let's start there. And you, you, like I said, you can take it, take it off from that point. But this is someone who I have to agree. He was trying to be a criminal, trying to be a super shark hacker person and failed on just about every level.

Lou Maresca (00:22:19):
Geber, what do you think? Obviously this, this guy needs some help

Brian Chee (00:22:23):
<Laugh>. No, I think, I think what it is really is this guy is watching too many movies. <Laugh>, you know, the, those, you know, hacker tropes that we see the Hollywood putting out, were the black hat goes and does something really egregious and then gets hired for really huge money afterwards. I'm sorry, the real world just doesn't work that way. Or at least it doesn't anymore. My personal opinion is those agencies, and they shall remain unknown at the mo at the moment that have hired hackers because they needed a talent. Okay, maybe you needed them at one time, but come on, we need to send the right message. It's kind of like Hollywood doing all these movies about people doing mass shootings, and it's for, for the greater good. I'm sorry, I'm comparing something really, really horrible to something just a little less horrible.

(00:23:20):
But, you know, I've worked with a lot of white hats. In fact, our, our curmudgeon buddy Oliver has a very, very good friend that is a white hat that works for the Federal Reserve, for goodness sakes. There are white hats. They keep logs. They actually record their sessions so that it can be played back and examined ad nauseum by the teams that are trying to defend against such things. So anyway I will say this story has, needs to be punctuated a little bit in that it has not gone to trial yet. I'm not a believer in trial by media, but having said that, the evidence seems very colossal against this person. And I'm sorry, they, they need to go and find out more what he did because there's, there's a good chance he did some things by accident that's going to increase the amount of damage and certainly ubiquity.

(00:24:28):
You know, their, their, you know, their reputation has certainly been damaged. And I can very much imagine that once the criminal case is done, there's going to be there's going to be a regular case a civil case, and they're gonna go and take 'em to the cleaners because ubiquity definitely took a lot of damage to their reputation in lost sales. Now, having said that, I do like ubiquity. There's a lot of people that say no ubiquity, too simplistic. It can't do everything that a Cisco you know, enterprise is not enterprise. That's, I keep hearing that over and over and over again. I say excuse me, but if I have to pay, you know, 120 to $150,000 a year for an engineer to do that last 10% basically, or 20% because it's kind of agreed that the ubiquity gear can do 80% of what the big boys can do.

(00:25:33):
But the question is, do you really need it? Right? So that I'm going to say ubiquity ya did the right thing. Thank you very much on behalf of the rest of the industry and to the folks at the fbi, thank you very much. I still strongly recommend that people take a very, very hard look at joining the in F B I Infra Guard program. I N F R G A R D. It's where you can well one, you, you gotta, you gotta be willing to submit to a background check because they wanna make sure they can trust you. And you're not a criminal, but you can get information on what's happening in the world that is normally considered government confidential. So it's a good way to keep ahead of the game and I strongly recommend you take a good hard look at it. And, you know this is going to be a very, very interesting case to see what actually happens once it really does go to court. I don't think it's done yet. The civil's definitely not done. The criminals I think is done, but the civil's done. I think we're going to see something quite spectacular from the courts when the civil hits the ca court cases.

Lou Maresca (00:26:52):
Kurt.

Curt Franklin (00:26:53):
Yeah, I wanted to say one of the things that, that this did show is that there were obviously some products that are available but not being used by ubiquity. This is a, this is an issue that comes up frequently enough that there is a class of product that's called D L P or Data Loss Prevention that looks for this sort of unusual data transfer activity. An employee who doesn't normally transfer gigabytes worth of data, suddenly doing so and clamps down on it, as well as letting others in the organization know that it's going on. So it, it's obvious, strike that. It's apparent that ubiquity did not have this in place. But this is this is not the first time we've heard a story like this. It's unlikely it will be the last. And so it means that companies really should, if they have any critical organizational data, whether it belongs to them or belongs to their customers, should have both procedural and technological pieces in place to prevent its, here's another technical word, exfiltration, or stealing the data and cut down on the possibility of data loss. I won't say it's a completely solved problem, but it's one where there are a lot of tools to help you. And it behooves any company to look at employing those if they don't already have them in place.

Lou Maresca (00:28:44):
You must have read my mind cuz the, the question is in the show notes, but I was gonna actually ask you that question, which is, it seems weird to me that an insider could exultate that much data without anybody knowing and then, and then, you know, and then be able to track it. So I think that you're right. Like they definitely need to put more security measures in place, and this is really a, a sound board for the rest of the industry no matter what, who you are, whether your hardware vendor or your service provider or whoever, you know, making sure that you have services like D L P in place is definitely an important thing to think about. And it doesn't matter how big you are, it could be a small business or, or an enterprise business, having this in place to really detect these things, you know, even sometimes false positives, false negatives are better than nothing.

(00:29:28):
So I think that, yeah, I definitely agree with you there, Kurt. I think they, they need to do something for sure. Well, folks, I would say that does it for that because we have to move on to our guests. Lots more interesting stuff to talk about. But before we do, we do have to thank another great sponsor of this week, enterprise Tech. And that's a c i Learning thanks to ACI Learning. The days of boring, archaic training methods are finally over. The lack of meaningful impact often shows up as low engagement, translating suboptimal performance. You and your team deserves to be entertained while you're trained and be empowered to keep your organization safe and secure. It's simple. If your IT training isn't raising your team to the level you aspire to be, you need a c i learning. And while training the industry's completion rate is barely 30%, ACA learning blows its competitors out of the water with over 80% completion rate.

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Mike Wagner (00:32:52):
Thank you very much. Great to be here.

Lou Maresca (00:32:54):
Love the mic, it's so clear. Feels like you're with us like in the studio. It's all amazing. Thank you for being here. Now, I'm really excited about the content today, but because we have people from all over the spectrum in their careers they, you know, whether they're CTOs, CEOs starting out as just, you know, low level it people you know, to experts. They love to hear people's origin stories and, and journey through tech. Can you maybe take us through your journey through tech and what brought you to Mefi?

Mike Wagner (00:33:19):
Yeah, you know, I think, so I'll just go back from the, from the beginning. For me, it started out just with an interest. I mean, overall, I, I loved computers from a very young age, and I started coding when I was around 12, I guess. And from there, it I started out with networking. And so to age, myself, brutally, I was a C N E a certified Noel engineer, if you guys remember the good old days of network engineering with the, with Noel. And I b m brought me in actually while I was still in college. So from there I went all over the place with I B m I ran a, a services region up in northern New England for a bit, and then went down to California and ran actually a sales and distribution region branch manager out of San Diego for several years before being convinced to join Red Hat.

(00:34:14):
And after joining Red Hat I founded a, a little company called Mefi. So really it was just two companies and an intrinsic interest in technology from the very beginning. And kind of always having an eye for entrepreneurialship. You know, I was always looking for what would be a really cool business to start based on where I see things moving in an enterprise direction. So, and, you know, waiting for all of that to line up perfectly. That's when I that's when things started with Medhi. You know, I saw the, the pieces falling into place and my co-founder and I, we both kind of looked at each other and said, this has to be a startup. So that's how I got here.

Lou Maresca (00:34:57):
Fantastic. Great story. Great story. So I, lots of stories and, and topics to talk about today. I, I talked a lot of organizations each and every day, and a lot of them run in a lot of organizations about their enterprise or startups run it on a bunch of these problems. But before we get into that mefi, it's pretty unique, unique name for a company. What, what's, is there a story behind that?

Mike Wagner (00:35:16):
Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's based on a port manto, so it's a port manto of metal and simplified, right? So you get to combine the two, use the really cool word called Port Manto, which didn't even know what that word meant, <laugh>. But yeah, it's a combination of those two words to create the medhi, which, you know, I I, we realized going through some of the trials and tribulations that Ian Evans, my CTO o and I did at our prior companies, that this need for low level simplicity was just rampant. You know, there's, there's all of the sort of attention and investment had gone upstack to the fund world of Kubernetes and Docker and, you know, application stacks. And while all that was happening, everybody was still working on the bare metal on, on the server themselves with command line and tools that are 15, 16 years old. So, yeah, right, that's where it came from.

Lou Maresca (00:36:11):
You know, I talked to a lot of organizations and they, you know, when they wanna start out, especially startups, they like to use, you know, cloud service providers manage services like S3 or ETLs or any run times of services that are out there. But before long, you know, they, they obviously sometimes move to private clouds or they use their own virtualization, but before long they, I outgrow all this stuff. They wanna scale, they wanna, they wanna really see that cost to scale trend. And these kind of managed places don't work always, or even just the hybrid world doesn't work for them. In fact, I I, I talked to Splunk a while ago about how they moved to their own infrastructure before that. So my, I guess my first question here is, what do you see from a challenging perspective for organizations when they try to scale out their own infrastructure architecture, especially in the hybrid architecture case?

Mike Wagner (00:36:56):
Yeah, so from a ScaleOut perspective, when companies first take on, you know, like a true cloud migration, you know, and this is the move was let's get everything in the cloud as quickly as possible, right? Right. That by itself is a difficult move, right? And a lot of times it's just a lift and shift, and then you get the monthly bills associated with that, and all of a sudden it looks like, well, what we did to try and save money may end up costing us money. So there's a, a number of cha challenges with the initial migration to the cloud. And then once you see the bill, there's this, there's a movement around cloud repatriation and you know, deciding at what point do you make a break even where it's like, okay, we know we're paying more than we should on a monthly basis for the compute that we're getting out of the cloud.

(00:37:43):
Not to mention this beautiful new term. It sprawl started occurring right where or shadow it started happening where it was so easy to flip on instances in E C two or, or Google that you know, things got a little out of control. And with those out of control and unseen virtual machines running, all of a sudden, you know, you're left with much more, there's more exposure surfaces there's suddenly bigger bills than you expected, and opex monthly operating expenditures all of a sudden, you know, went through the roof with a lot of companies. So hence the, the move towards cloud repatriation. And that's also driven by, there's a number of factors from a technology per perspective that are really driving the need to move onto bare metal and also bring these workloads back to mention, you know, Moore's Law it, you know, as a, as a, a really powerful influencer here because things compute has gotten so condensed and what you can do in a single chassis now you know, equals what it took a couple rows and racks of servers to do in the past, right?

(00:38:52):
So that cost and what it costs to actually manage and, and maintain and do all the things that you need to do with the servers that you may need to be just good enough, you know from a product perspective and from an overall infrastructure and ops perspective has come way down. And so, right. We wanted to make it so that, and take it to the next level with that, essentially provide a public cloud-like experience. Make it just as easy as it is for you to flip on AMI in, in aws and do that on-prem or wherever your prem is, so to speak, right? Edge, private, cloud, all of those areas. I mean, and that's the other funny thing about data center, right? What, what do you even call, I mean, what classifies as a data center at this point you know, is a wiring closet with more horsepower than a data center had five years ago. You know, does that count? I think it should, right? You know, and given the growth of Edge that's where things are, are really getting interesting for us because there's just so much happening on the edge in the hybrid space and overall with the use case with this sort of ever connected populace that we now get to try and service. Now,

Lou Maresca (00:40:05):
You mentioned bare metal, and I want to get into that a little bit more because obviously I see I've worked with some organizations where they are, you know, they're, they're, they're instrumenting their infrastructure and their code to, they notice, Hey, there's a lot of latency in the pipeline here, and whether I'm spitting up a virtual machine or I'm, I'm trying to create, proactively create virtual machines, so I remove that cold boot scenario or whatnot and what forth, and they find that potentially moving to bare metal can reduce that latency and actually improve their performance a lot, however, they're afraid to do it. What's, what's some of the things, what maybe misconceptions and some of the challenges they see there?

Mike Wagner (00:40:42):
Well, they're probably not misconceptions, and they're probably, you know, bang on when it comes to bare metal taking it on by yourself. It's not easy. And one of our one of our charts always talks about how, you know hardware is hard, bare metal is harder, you know, it's just one of those things that there's no getting around the fact that working with machines directly, working with the servers directly it requires fair amount of tribal knowledge depending on whose hardware you're putting it on. It requires a, a lot of in-depth knowledge and the proprietary tools that are required to make it happen, and each one, so that's, that's the other area here that it really only became possible to do what we're doing in the last five, six years because of the the growth and acceptance of open standards at low levels.

(00:41:28):
So, in particular, shout out to the guys at the D m tf, the Redfish specification, as well as the open BMC specification. Those two well, and Redfish in particular has become ubiquitous among all the manufacturers. And that provides this low level a p i, this low level specification that has a massive community and open standards community, open source community around it that's really driving the r and d. So that makes our life incredibly, incredibly simple. And, and with those drivers we're able to make this tool that makes taking all of that and putting it into a, a really nice ui and then adding a bunch of cool methods and lessons learned from the, the trials and tribulations of building data centers all around the globe. And, and we kind of boiled that down, distilled it into our sort of dream infrastructure and operations tool, and that's, that's what mojo platform is.

(00:42:27):
So yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, the, the, the fear is real and it's, it's based in experience and, and we just, we had a call today with, with with a gentleman who he, he was just at his wits end. Okay. So, you know, he's been running and he owns only putting together about 50 or 60 servers, but still, I mean, 50 or 60 servers for you know, a team of two, three guys. It's, it's a lot of work. And when you have to build 'em all from scratch, and then you're also trying to manually maintain those servers, right? It's, it's just not easy. So yeah, we make it really, really easy to discover, provision, validate, and then maintain those servers I in a lights out fashion. So as long as there's a plug and and the network cable going into that thing, we can work all our mojo magic.

(00:43:11):
And what about the scenario where you, you know, you wanna bring your own infrastructure with you? Is there a scenario for that with Mojo and, and how it, how it works out? Absolutely. So that, that's really key to us. So we're kind of DIY for private clouds. Okay? So we, it, it is your infrastructure. It's always your infrastructure. We don't host, we work with hosts, okay. But the key thing for, for our value prop really is the cost savings associated with getting to put it on your own metal. You write it off as CapEx. It's, it's your gear, you know your gear well, it's your Upstack tools. So we also integrate really cleanly with all of the major configuration players, like, you know, Ansible, Cheff, puppet, whoever Terraform as well as the container application platforms. So you know, OpenShift, of course ranch or Anthos, all of the usual suspects in the Kubernetes space.

(00:44:08):
And we've partnered with all those companies as well. So it's a, it's a great experience and provides sort of the flexibility that customers that our customers want in terms of using the automation and configuration tools of their choice and then adding that beautiful functionality that's there with those products, and now also having the ability to add that to metal, to their bare metal and manage the infrastructure pieces themselves. So it's kind of treating ops as a first class citizen, right? Finally, you know, not making those guys just hammer everything out at the command line. And, you know, with, with one guy goes a ton of tribal knowledge, right? So you're so dependent on that one person. That's the other aspect of of Mojo platform. It really acts as a knowledge management tool in many ways because it simplifies the processes so much that it de-risks your future in terms of, okay, what do we do from a people perspective if, if if Bob goes down, we're in trouble, you know? And bus factor. Yeah, that's right. <Laugh>, the, that the bus factor is a that's right. Is a beautiful thing. Absolutely horrible thing, but yeah, you, it's,

Lou Maresca (00:45:17):
It's true. It's true. Yeah. I wanna talk a little bit about one of your big partners because there's some pretty good use cases in here from this particular partner. What, what's, what's what's maybe un uncovered this, we talked, I kind of alluded to in the beginning of the show, I'll talk about M L B, but I'm curious to see how they use it, what, what they're using it for, that kind of thing.

Mike Wagner (00:45:34):
Yeah. M L b awesome. Awesome customer ton of fun. Really great guys. A fun backstory with those guys too. I mean, major League baseball, of course, they kind of started this whole big data thing around sports. Created a subculture of, you know, the whole Moneyball thing. You know, not only were the fans getting into it, but the management people also you know, essentially using the stats to drive who they bring on and when they use people and what, how they build their teams out. So working with them was, was really, really a treat. Their challenge was they wanted to move off of VMware. There's dollars associated with that. And then also they couldn't do the low level things that they wanted to do in a lights out manner. And they also were having some performance issues.

(00:46:27):
So like you had mentioned, the performance uptick and low latency requirements of the applications that they were running on the edge. So all of their ballparks operate essentially as Edge pops. Each one has its own stack of servers that runs. And then they have some amazing technology that runs on top of that. The application stack is is run through Anthos, so that's all G C P. So it's, it's a true hybrid solution. Google was our partner on this particular with Major League Baseball on this. And and yeah, the you know, what they're able to do and what they wanted to do to take it from cloud-based, or I should say virtualization based into bare metal uped the performance across the board on all their applications made their Hawkeye system work better, which is the, you know, pitch tracking and ball rotation.

(00:47:23):
They track everything on the field. And then also really gave them the ability to manage remotely in ways that they couldn't do before. So there's a bunch of money saved on the just travel and living expense of having to go out. And Kevin, so Kevin Backman is their senior architect who really ran the project and he talked about how they would call it hand jamming. So it, it removed the hand jam aspect of having to fly out to the stadium, grab a thumb drive and do the necessary, you know, firmware upgrades or bios upgrades or whatever had to be done in a, in a lights out fashion. So, yeah, just it was a really cool use case. It kind of com combined all the cool aspects of what we knew what we essentially built Mojo platform to do.

(00:48:08):
And and yeah, you know, with a customer like M L B, it was just a, a lot of fun to work with. Very advanced technical team. Also you know, from a networking and compute perspective, they just are, are really advanced, in fact M L b given where they were in the marketplace as a leader in this big data push to integrate sort of the digital experience with the fan experience overall. They had actually acquired their own consulting house, so they, they, I think they had been using these guys outside and, and then you just said, okay, we're just gonna buy your company cuz we're spending so much with you guys. So yeah, it was really, really fun. Nice to be able to do that <laugh>. Yeah, right. Well, when you have deep pockets, anything is possible. That's right. Yep. So, so yeah, no, and, and we still, we have a great relationship with those guys. We're on our third year with them. We expanded now into the minor league parks and lots of really cool use, new use cases coming up that we look forward to getting rolling with them as well. Right. Geert.

Brian Chee (00:49:09):
Hey, so I was one of the first 10 Noel instructors in the world, so that goes way back <laugh>. I actually, I actually helped write part of the reseller authorization course.

Mike Wagner (00:49:21):
Wow.

Brian Chee (00:49:22):
Anyway, be that as it may back in those days it wasn't hand jamming, it was floppy pitching because we're using Norton Ghost to use multicast and image labs. Yeah. Well, hand jamming, there's two, there's two things that still today are almost all hand jamming. One is point of sale, the other one is BA Wolff clusters. Wow. So, coming from the University of Hawaii, we actually ran a lot of clusters. And the problem is there was only one person, well, two people in our college that actually knew how to build clusters from scratch.

Mike Wagner (00:50:03):
Mm.

Brian Chee (00:50:04):
And boy, this sure sounds like it might be a fit, but is it?

Mike Wagner (00:50:10):
It is, yeah. So in fact, so as an example, I mean, we spin up OpenShift clusters you know, completely push button, right? And that's the the hardware itself you know, the initial discovery and provisioning of the OS core os. And then we have a service catalog where you can service chain after that, the run times of choice. So it could be, you know an open shift cluster. It could be an Anthos cluster, it could be a rancher cluster, whatever you want. Yep. We service chain that right through our our dashboard and through our service catalog. And then you know, with that you have sort of instant views into what metal is running, what and the health of those systems as well. So, and that's a, a big piece of this, frankly. You know, when it comes to data that has locality requirements, you know, for hipaa and other financial reasons there's compliance and governance audits that have to be run regularly on Okay.

(00:51:17):
What rev levels are at are, are these systems at both from a hardware and software perspective. So we help out with all of those fronts. And and yeah, bew Wolff, Matt, I have not heard about Bew Wolff in a long time, so that's, that's right back there with Novell. I, I, I mean that's very interesting, but we haven't spun up any ba bew Wolff clusters. I don't know if there's any going out there, but you know, we've had fun with all kinds of different use cases and especially on the edge, you know, the profile of what we call, you know, and what you can fit a cluster on is, is amazing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so that's where things are getting really interesting and really fun for us. And then wireless stuff too. We have a, an, we're doing a lot of fun things for an I S P out of Virginia that includes some broadband wireless with our, with another set of technologies that we have called Photon, which is a different beast completely, but it meshes in and integrates really well with our solution overall.

(00:52:21):
So it's a lot of fun.

Brian Chee (00:52:23):
So what about point of sale? Because that's another big one.

Mike Wagner (00:52:26):
Yeah, so point of sale, we have use cases, but we have not actually implemented with the, with a, a large point of sale customer yet. So we know we can do it and we look forward to it, but it's not, we do not have a retail customer like that we, you know, like a Walmart or you know, a Best Buy or anything like that under our belt yet. So if they're listening, we're happy to help 'em out and you know, if they're still sending teams around to hand jam their systems we can make that a holy remote process for

Brian Chee (00:52:56):
'Em. Yeah. It is gonna be the small guys. Yeah. Or maybe the, the foreign, like the, you know, I, I used to work for Fujitsu and their point of sales system was totally hand jammed in the beginning, Uhhuh <affirmative>, and they have to deal with so many different languages, so that ought to be interest, an interesting fit. The big guys like NCR and IBM and so forth, they're gonna have their own solution. But yeah. Anyway, lot, lots of interesting stuff, but, you know, I looks like Kurt has got some interesting questions too, so let's toss it to Kurt next. Oh,

Mike Wagner (00:53:30):
All right.

Curt Franklin (00:53:32):
I appreciate it. Well, here's one of my questions. You know, we, we've been talking about hybrid cloud and cloud to bare metal and, and that whole evolution. When cloud services first started gaining traction, one of the great arguments in their favor was that they could level the playing field, basically allow smaller organizations to have access to the same sort of resources that had always been reserved for large enterprises.

Mike Wagner (00:54:05):
Yeah.

Curt Franklin (00:54:06):
So looking at what you are providing now, is what you are doing a large enterprise tool only, or do you have smaller organizations that are figuring out how to take advantage of, of what you are offering?

Mike Wagner (00:54:25):
Yeah, no, great question. We, we absolutely have small customers, mid-size customers, and then hyper and, and very large customers. So, you know, for the large customers it's, it's, there's an obvious breakeven point. There's a point of no return, if you will, where, you know, your cloud costs have just spun out of control for smaller customers, it's time savings and it's you know, the softer costs associated with having to spend way too many hours doing the simple things or not so simple things as it relates to managing your own servers. So it's that fear factor part that keeps us and, and o overall utility, right? You know, what value is to a customer is really dependent on what their use cases are and, and, you know, where they're struggling. Our tools, since it is so low level, helps sell at small shops anywhere from five servers up to 60 servers, we'll call 'em small. And yeah, then, you know, which jumps in sort of that middle class, which would be from sort of 62, say 150, and then one 50 to a thousand. And anything a thousand and over I think is a pretty decent size shop. But yeah, no, we've got customers across the board and you know, they love the tool just as much if they have 20 servers to work with or if they have, you know, 2000. So

Curt Franklin (00:55:47):
Very good. Well, when we're talking about the, the size of the installation, it, it relates to another thing that a lot of people have issues with, and that's the size of their staff. Yeah. and not only the size, but the specific expertise of their staff. And this is, again, another way in which classic cloud was supposed to offer an advantage. You know, you could have people who, for example, only had to worry about the, the logic flow of a, rather than having to know all about maintaining a server how does your offering play into that skills and f t e deficit that so many organizations are struggling with these days?

Mike Wagner (00:56:42):
Yeah, no, that's, that's a big one for us. So that's one of our core value propositions is that and that is the toughest thing. Everybody got very drunk on virtualization and cloud for good reason. It was super easy. I mean, there's no reason not to. But then all of a sudden you have these use cases and developers and applications asking for bare metal and a, a lot of shops are saying, okay, whoa, let's take a look at our guys. Can we handle this? How many can we handle? If, if we do venture into these waters of providing bare metal behind our own firewall? And so we with the whole idea behind our tool was to alleviate the concerns around FTEs by having this keep it stupid simple idea behind it. All right. And Ian, Ian Evans, the, our c t o and co-founder, he had this idea many years ago, wrote a thesis about it and you know, had to work with the larger tools that were largely clued together from multiple acquisitions by the big players, by the big OEMs.

(00:57:47):
And, and then also even the open source stuff was just brutal to have to try and work with. So to make it easy on one guy to manage multiple server brands, be, you know, on-prem behind your firewall, that was our sort of golden use case, if you will. We're like, okay, we wanna make this easy for a small business for a single guy to manage a hundred servers or better by himself. And, you know, have a tool that makes that incredibly simple. And that's, that's where we took it and we feel like we, we had success with it. Speaking of, it's kind of funny because we actually won an award from Data Center World, and one of the judges was from mia. So I think it was Moises Levy who was one of the judges and yeah, we won.

(00:58:37):
So for most likely best new technology and most likely to gain additional funding. And this was back in 2021. We already had M L B as a customer at that point. But we got to show off our software and they liked it. And so it was a really cool thing. And, and, and now we actually did get funding and haven't announced that publicly yet, but here we are. So yeah, it's very exciting and we are looking forward to assisting small businesses as well as the, the very large guys with this, cuz from a cost perspective, it just, we're much less than, than anything similar.

Lou Maresca (00:59:11):
Before we close up, just to kind of go back to the bare metal question. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I know that, you know, obviously follow cloud services, like you said, people are drunk on virtualization in the cloud, and of course Amazon comes along with their Amazon e k s, anywhere on bare metal. Can you maybe just give us a comparison why anybody would use that compared to going to the solution that you would ha that you guys have?

Mike Wagner (00:59:30):
Yeah, so Amazon, e k s on bare metal is, is that their on-prem or is that their No, no, no, that's okay.

Lou Maresca (00:59:37):
It can be their on pre. Yeah. Yep.

Mike Wagner (00:59:38):
Okay. So I guess I haven't seen too much of it out there, there was another, they had another one called Outpost or something like that, that also just didn't it didn't do much for us. It's simplicity bottom line, right? We just wanted to make this a very simple tool to use, easy to download, or we can drop it in as an appliance or even a a palm top if you will. I mean, we can put it on a lot of different form factors, but simplicity really led the day for us. And then ubiquity and, and no concern about any lock in, you know, we don't have any proprietary tools, we don't have any concerns about backend APIs that will only work in AW w s or in just in G C P. It's all just about, you know DIY and, and use the tools you want. And we're just here to handle the metal at a low level and make your life really easy when it comes to servers and provision. Always fun things. Well,

Lou Maresca (01:00:35):
Mike, thank you so much for being here. Unfortunately, time flies when you're having fun. Lots of great stuff going on here, <laugh>. I want to just give you maybe a little bit of time to, to give your pitch, maybe tell the folks at home where they can learn more about Mefi, maybe how their organization could get started.

Mike Wagner (01:00:49):
Yeah, well, yeah, I would say get started small. You know, just start with a few servers. Try the, try Meta Mojo platform out. And the easiest way to to get it and to get in contact with us is just to hit our website. And click the contact us or get a demo button and we'll be happy to show you how it works and get it into your environment so you can start realizing all the benefits of, you know, being able to DIY your own medal in minutes.

Lou Maresca (01:01:15):
Thanks again, Wolf. Well, folks, you've done it again, you've sat through another out of the Best Hanging Enterprise and IT podcast in the universe, so definitely tune your podcast catcher too. Tw I want to thank everyone who makes this show possible, especially to our, my, my amazing co-host, starting with our very own Mr. Curtis Franklin. Thank you Curtis, for being here. You know, we've heard about your upcoming events. Maybe you can tell the folks at home where they can see your work, maybe how they can get touch, get in touch with you.

Curt Franklin (01:01:42):
Certainly they can find my work, they can find all of my large work on omnia.com. Although I will be honest that to see much of it, you have to subscribe smaller pieces and things of perhaps more general interest will show up on dark reading on the AMIA tab as well as some that I try to put on LinkedIn and platforms like that. And if they wanna see pointers to all that, people are welcome to follow me on Twitter. I'm at KG four gwa and I'm also spreading my wings a little bit over on Mastodon, where I am, oddly enough, KG four gwa@mastodon.sdf.org g. So please feel free to follow me, any of those places as well as following me on LinkedIn. I'm Curtis Franklin on LinkedIn and I accept direct messages on all of those platforms. So let me know what you're thinking about and let me know if you're going to be at Black Hatter Defcon. I'm going to be at both. Would love to have a chance to meet up with any of the members of the TWIT Riot in real space.

Lou Maresca (01:03:02):
Thanks Curtis. Well, we also have to be Mr. Brian Chi Sheer. Thanks again for being here. Great seeing you. Tell the folks where, what you're doing in the coming weeks where they in touch with you.

Brian Chee (01:03:11):
I'm getting fiber in my diet. I'm actually rolling out lots of single mold fiber optics over at the central Florida fairgrounds. But interesting enough, I have already registered for the Infocom Show, which is in June at the Orlando's convention center. And Infocom is going to be interesting. I, you know, looking at all kinds of different things. So if there's gonna be any that quiet right there, we'd love to also meet in real space. Even though the show's in June, I'm already getting deluged by Let's meet at our booth. Anyway, lots of fun. I'll be talking about a lot of different things. I still use Twitter. I'm still kind of a dinosaur on that. And I am A D V N E T L A B Advanced Net Lab. That's actually a leftover from my students hanging on me.

(01:04:03):
In fact, she, Burt is because my students and I had a Dilbert naming theme for all our servers. And Mike Kanado, who is now with with the folks at Aspirant and so forth, oh, actually I'm, they're not called aspirant anymore. Anyway, <laugh> the, he said, you need to be cheaper. So that is also my email address, which is scheiber, C H E E B E R T twit tv. You're also welcome to use twit twit tv and that'll hit all the hosts. We'd love to hear your show ideas. I've got pretty thick skin, so if you don't like what we said, okay <laugh>, insert whatever you want. We've got all kinds of conversations going on and I am not afraid of using a machine translator. We've had questions from folks in France. I've had questions from folks in South Africa. Definitely some Germans and some Swedish. Lots of fun. We'd love to hear your questions. No matter what country you're in, because we have yours on every single continent. I am still under the belief, I think, I think, I think that we have a download viewer at McMurdo Science Station in Antarctica, and that was the last continent we were looking for. Anyway, take care and be safe everybody. Thanks

Lou Maresca (01:05:31):
Geer. Well, folks, we also have to thank you as well. Thank you very much. You're the person who drops in each and every week to watch and to listen to our show, to get your enterprise goodness. We wanna make it easy for you to watch, listen and catch up on your enterprise in IT news. So go to our show page right now, twit.tv/twit. There you'll go there. You'll find all the amazing back episodes, the show notes, the cohost information, guest information, of course, the links of the stories that we do during the show, but more importantly there, you'll next to those videos. There you go. You get those helpful. Subscribe and download links. Support the show. Get by getting your audio version, your video version of your choice. Listen on any one of your applications, any one of your devices, cuz we're on all of those podcast applications out there.

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That's right. We talk about a lot of fun tech topics on this show, so we'll definitely share it with them cause I guarantee they will find it fun and interesting as well. And after they subscribe, or maybe after you subscribed, you can join us live. We do the show live, 1:30 PM Pacific on Friday. You're doing it right now. You show, you can see the streams@live.twit.tv. You can come see how the pizza's made, all the behind the eeds, all the banter before and after the show. Lots of fun stuff that we talk about. But you know, if you're gonna watch the show live, you gotta join the infamous IRC channel as well at you can do go to IRC twit tv and can jump into twit live channel there. We love the chat room. We have lots of great discussions, lot of amazing characters in the show in the channel there.

(01:08:18):
And they give us a ton of great titles after each show. I laugh each and every week. So thank you guys for supporting the show there. Definitely hit me up. I want you to hit me up and, and contact me, whether it's twitter.com/liam. There I post on all my enterprise tidbits. I have lots of direct message conversations with people career tech discussions, whatever. In fact, I just helped somebody recently on some, some stuff there. In fact, you can also hit me up on Mastodon at at lu twi at Social. Of course, direct messages be there. I don't post too much there yet. I'm getting getting used to it a little bit still, but I'm gonna start doing that more stuff like you can hit me up there. Plus, you know, obviously Louis Masco on LinkedIn. I have lots of great conversations on there each and every week.

(01:08:59):
I love connecting with people, so please hit me up there. I, i appreciate that. If you wanna know what I do during my normal work week at Microsoft, please check out developers.microsoft.com/office. There we post all the great ways for you to customize your office experience, make it more productive for you. And if you have Excel in your Microsoft 365 service or subscription, check out the automate tab on the inside of Excel. That is where I, that's my bread and butter. That's why I live. It's called Office Scripts. It's the latest and greatest ways for you to record macros generate no code solution for you to automate some stuff using power automate. Lots of great ways for you to customize that. So definitely check that out and play with that. I wanna thank everyone who makes this show possible. Obviously I thank my co-host, but I also wanna thank Leo and Lisa.

(01:09:44):
They continue to support us each and every week and we couldn't do the show without them, so thank you for all their support over the years. I want to thank Mr. Brian Chi just one more time because he now our co-host, but he's also our Titleist producer as well. He does all the show bookings and the playings for the show. So thank you achiever for all your support. We couldn't do the show without you. Thank you to all his staff and engineers at twit cuz again, couldn't do the show without them. And of course, before we sign out, we have to thank our editor for today because they make us look good after the fact. They cut out all my mistakes and my, my fouls with the word. So thank you <laugh>, thank you editor for helping us out there helping me out. Plus also thank you to our technical director today. He's the famous and fabulous and amazing tech guy, Mr. Aunt Pruit. He's not only a great guy, but he's also does a great show. It's a called Hands-On Photography and they do some amazing stuff. I learned stuff each and every week from this show and what's going on this weekend, the show

Ant Pruitt (01:10:38):
I'm not sure about, famous, more like infamous Aunt Pruitt. <Laugh> <laugh>. I appreciate the support, my man. Yeah, this week on the show, hands on Photography, I had the honor and pleasure of finally being able to sit down and chat with Mr. Terry White. He is the worldwide evangelist at Adobe for Photoshop and Lightroom and it's a lot of fun being able to pick his brain to talk about NAS and storage because you have a big old fancy camera and you take all of these high megapixel images and I know you're running outta space on that computer. So he's got some options to walk you through storing all of you beautiful photos, Lou.

Lou Maresca (01:11:19):
Love it. Love it. Thanks a well, until next time, I'm Lewis Mareka. Just reminding you, if you wanna know what's going on the enterprise, just keep Twiet