Untitled Linux Show 222 Transcript

Jonathan Bennett [00:00:00]:
Hey folks, this week we're talking about the Raspberry PI 500. We're talking about multi kernel Linux. OBS32 is out, there's an upcoming release of KDE Plasma 6.5 and finally POP OS 24.04 is about to release. We talk about all that and more. You don't want to miss it, so stay tuned.

Jonathan Bennett [00:00:30]:
This is the Untitled Linux Episode 222, recorded Saturday, September 27th: That's On Me. Hey folks, it is Saturday and you know what that means. It's time for some Linux Linux news. Hardware, software, open source, the whole gamut. We cover it all here at the Untitled Linux Show. I'm your host, Jonathan Bennett, and I've got the crew, the gang, the group of guys, wonderful and beautiful co hosts. Well, they are some of those things.

Jonathan Bennett [00:01:01]:
We've got Jeff and Rob and Kim.

Rob Campbell [00:01:03]:
Some of us are some of those things.

Jonathan Bennett [00:01:06]:
Yes, a combination of people and things. Yes, that is what we are. We are going to start with some multi kernel news and I may know what this is. I'm curious though, if Rob pulled the same story that I saw. Rob, what is the multi kernel? So enter the multi kernel. Like, is this the next big phase of some movie franchise?

Jeff Massie [00:01:33]:
Well, I'm going to start out by asking everybody, do you all like running the Linux kernel on your computer? Have you ever wanted to run more than one kernel at the same time on your computer? And I don't mean virtual machines either.

Jonathan Bennett [00:01:48]:
Oh, okay. I was going to say, I've got a computer sitting right over there that has the Linux kernel and then multiple Linux kernels running in virtual machines.

Jeff Massie [00:01:58]:
Yeah, we're talking about multiple kernels on one machine. So this week, the Linux kernel mailing list, there appeared a proposal for a multi kernel architecture. The idea is that multiple independent kernel instances running on the same physical machine, each tied to specific CPU cores but still sharing the underlying hardware. Kind of like a VM in a way, but it's different. Let me go on. So think of it as kernels living side by side, each minding their own business, but capable of communicating when needed. The patches were announced by Kong Wang of Multi Kernel Technologies Incorporated, who also shared a blog post@ multikernel IO. Wang explained that the multi kernel approach could offer fault isolation between workloads, stronger security by keeping kernels separate, better resource utilization compared to virtualization, and even the possibility of zero downtime kernel updates using something called kernel handover.

Jeff Massie [00:03:09]:
So under the hood the implementation builds on Linux's existing K exec infrastructure to load multiple kernel images and assign them to CPU cores. Potential use cases are pretty exciting. You could run a real time kernel for latency sensitivity sensitive tasks right alongside a standard Linux kernel. Or even dedicated kernels to specific workloads like security critical applications. Or you can have the real time kernel doing this, regular kernel, doing that, something else, doing security security. It all seems like it could actually be pretty cool. But just when you thought that was the end of multi kernel news, ByteDance stepped in with a surprise of their own. They unveiled Parker, what they're calling Parker, their take on running multiple Linux kernels simultaneously, also without virtualization.

Jeff Massie [00:04:11]:
Parker partitioned CPU cores, memory and devices so that each kernel has its own sandbox. So it's starting to look even more like a vm, but still not quite so. The kernel, the boot kernel, starts first and assigns hardware resources. All other kernels, called application kernels, only interact with their allocated CPUs, memory and IO devices. Once running, the kernels don't communicate at all. They're fully isolated. So it's a different approach than the other first multi kernel. They also see potential in tailoring different kernels for different workloads.

Jeff Massie [00:04:57]:
Maybe one tune for throughput, another for latency, each with different configs and compiler optimizations. So although this wasn't something I ever thought I wanted, you know, before reading these articles, you know, once the reason was broken down, I'm starting to. I'm starting to be a little convinced of how this could actually be pretty useful.

Jonathan Bennett [00:05:19]:
Yeah, interesting. I've been kind of flipping through while you're talking, I was slipping through the mailing list comments about this and nobody has, nobody's come in and blasted them for this being a ridiculous and bad idea. But something interesting I'm seeing is that there's apparently already a Jailhouse is the name of it, and it is sort of doing a similar thing. So essentially what this boils down to is it's like, it's almost like a light hypervisor sort of solution that doesn't use quite as much virtualization. But yeah, it's a really interesting idea.

Rob Campbell [00:06:00]:
Definitely is. And noticing that in one of the frequently asked questions at the Microkernel website, under the frequently asked questions.

Jonathan Bennett [00:06:15]:
Jailhouse is a Siemens product, which is really interesting for me because Siemens is the new overlord over at Hackaday for I guess getting close to a year now. Yeah, well, they, they, they purchased the company that owns the company that owns.

Jeff Massie [00:06:31]:
Hackaday, like Siemens, the ones they make. I know, I know. They used to. Made touchscreen displays and various things in like manufacturing. Like that same Siemens.

Jonathan Bennett [00:06:40]:
Yes. Yeah, they. They do. They do a lot of things. Sort of your heavy industrial equipment. Not. Not the. Not like the heavy equipment side of it, but the controller side of it.

Jeff Massie [00:06:51]:
Right. That's where I've seen them at when I. Back in the day when I worked factories.

Jonathan Bennett [00:06:54]:
Yeah. That is their bread and butter, that.

Rob Campbell [00:06:56]:
Controllers, conveyor belt.

Ken McDonald [00:06:57]:
The old General Electric.

Jonathan Bennett [00:06:59]:
Yeah, Very similar idea.

Rob Campbell [00:07:00]:
Yep.

Jonathan Bennett [00:07:02]:
Yeah, we'll have to see. We'll have to see if any of these really take off and land upstream in the kernel. Maybe. Maybe it'll be the next wave. Maybe this. Maybe this is the missing piece between the Docker style containerization and the virtual machine style containerization.

Rob Campbell [00:07:20]:
Maybe multiple lxd, LXC vert options.

Jonathan Bennett [00:07:26]:
Well, LXC LXD is just one of those two things. I think it falls into one of those categories.

Jeff Massie [00:07:32]:
You know, I wonder, and this may sound like blasphemy when I say this, but I wonder if the. And obviously it's not going to probably not be a blessed configuration or maybe will. No Microsoft. But I wonder if the separation here is enough that theoretically someone could also have one of those independent kernels, be a Windows kernel or I wonder if that's just too far different of architecture.

Jonathan Bennett [00:07:56]:
It depends upon how much essentially. Yeah, it depends on how much of a hypervisor there is running underneath and how much it's willing to lie to the Windows kernel to make that work. That's essentially what you have to do. Yes. This is memory location 0.

Jeff Massie [00:08:13]:
The ByteDance is probably more likely to work because it. It sandboxes more than just the cpu. But indeed it'd be interesting if that could become a way to run Windows apps.

Rob Campbell [00:08:25]:
Basically, you've got a box. Well, you've got, for all intents and purposes, four identical computer systems because of the hardware put in it. With what, just one controller for starting.

Jeff Massie [00:08:42]:
It all up and then bytedance, right? Yeah, kind of like containers too.

Rob Campbell [00:08:52]:
Then you'd use an immutable system for running everything up and then have Ubuntu, Fedora and something else in each of the others.

Jonathan Bennett [00:09:02]:
Yeah, just all of it run. All of it. Yeah. All right. So there was something else that happened this week that I was. I was not prepared for it, but I should have been because we've talked about it in the past. Obs 32 dropped the full release. It's out, it's ready.

Jonathan Bennett [00:09:16]:
I'm not running it yet. I haven't updated to it yet, but we got 32. We also got a little minor hotfix with 3201. And the big the big new feature In OBS Studio 32 is the plugin manager. And this is going to be pretty interesting for for managing your plugins, imagine that. But for being able to see the list of plugins you have installed, install them on the fly, disable some of them just have a single place to go to to control all of that stuff. They also have, interestingly, an automatic crash log uploader. It's opt in and It's Windows and macOS only.

Jonathan Bennett [00:09:54]:
Nothing on Linux unfortunately. But that is a big deal for discovering and fixing crashes earlier if you can get those crash logs to upload automatically. And then they've done some work on the Nvidia stuff, the Nvidia RTX effects. They've added voice activity detection so that they can do better noise suppression by being intelligent about when the speaker that you're trying to isolate is actually speaking. And then they've also added the chair removal option for the RTX background removal so you can delete your chairs live and on the fly. They've got an experimental metal renderer for Apple Silicon Macs which I have mixed feelings about. I kind of wish nobody, just everybody would refuse to support metal because it's a terrible not invented here syndrome kind of idea. But I guess we're stuck with it, at least for a little while.

Jonathan Bennett [00:10:54]:
So they have added that and then they've also got hybrid MOV support And then the 32.01 hotfix was just various crashes that they found maybe through the automatic uploader. These may be things discovered through the automatic crash upload and so it may already be bearing fruit. And then there are some other just various changes in there fixes to audio fixes for settings. They've improved some chapter marker accuracy. There is a pipewire change in there where they have improved the format selection for PipeWire video capture. As I said, I've not installed the 32 release yet because I'm really contemplating doing a Fedora install first on this laptop. This is the one that I do my media stuff on for the various shows. And so I'm really thinking about maybe the rest of this weekend trying to do a Fedora install there.

Jonathan Bennett [00:11:49]:
And then of course we would go to OBS32 as part of that because latest and greatest. Why not?

Rob Campbell [00:11:56]:
And I've actually already have it installed under OpenSUSE Tumbleweed if somebody wants to see what it looks like yeah, but there's no plugins for me to manage yet.

Jonathan Bennett [00:12:09]:
You're pluginless?

Rob Campbell [00:12:10]:
Yep. All it does is gives me the installed and it. Then on the right side it's got manage enabled plugins. Above the installed it says browse and below it says updates, but that's all it's showing and it's under Tools.

Jonathan Bennett [00:12:29]:
Yeah, you can imagine that eventually they'll, they'll have. They'll plug that into like a plugin repository and the officially supported plugins you can just go and browse and hit a button to install. Like, I'm sure that they've got grand plans for making that more useful in the future. Yeah, so cool to see that. Jeff. Jeff, you're not running OBS 32 yet, are you?

Ken McDonald [00:12:52]:
I am not.

Jonathan Bennett [00:12:53]:
You've got enough problems with your machine already, don't you?

Ken McDonald [00:12:57]:
No, not actually. Too many problems.

Jonathan Bennett [00:13:00]:
Well, why don't you tell us about that?

Ken McDonald [00:13:03]:
The title of this one is My Life with Cache eos so Far. So now I talked about how I added Cache OS to my laptop and played with it. Well, when I wasn't doing the show for the last two weeks, had some personal matters going on, but I took a little time and killed my Kubuntu install and loaded Cash EOS on my main gaming machine, which is the one I use right now for doing the podcast and to make sure I could have a fresh start. I also wiped out my home directory and as Ken always says, back up, which I did for most of my files. Yes, I thought I had my documents directory backed up and I lost that one. I had some other backups in places, but I did lose a few months of progress. So this is the foreshadowing of the end of the show's Poetry Corner. Just heads up there.

Ken McDonald [00:13:57]:
Back to Casheos. Now, I used Ventoy with an ISO, as many of you would. And I. I chose to install Cashios with the Nvidia drivers. Since I do have a team green card, I split my root and home directories into different partitions. And I also chose Grub as my bootloader. It isn't the default, systemd is the default, but one Grub is the devil I know. And from what I've read, Grub is a little more forgiving on how you boot because systemd bootloader only works with eufi, or so I've read, where Grub can work in legacy mode.

Ken McDonald [00:14:32]:
Uefi it's a little more versatile. But you know, I've also read that it's easier to Config multi boot options with Grub and you you systemd can do it but you need to do manually configure it so if someone knows different let me know. But it just seemed like I already know how to fight with grub so and and I really fight with Grub I can manhandle it pretty well so that's why I went that way. File system I did chose BTRFS since that's the default Now Kubuntu uses ext4 so I've kind of been on the ext file system for a while. I have used others in the past but you know and Cashios does support ext4 but I figured I'd follow the default you know but also on this with a realistic view I doubt I'll ever know the difference unless I really dig deep into playing with the file system. I mean it's it works basically just the same until I really pop pop my head under the hood to do some wild new thing that I probably shouldn't, you know and corrupt everything but but I digress. Desktops of course I chose KDE plasma I kind of a plasma fan but as I mentioned in the last time I talked about this there are 16 choices for desktop so pretty much everything is supported that has any much of any size to it and following at all. So lots of options there.

Ken McDonald [00:16:03]:
Now I booted up things work great. You're greeted with the desktop with a hello program window which I really liked because I have never done any arch before. So this is kind of new for me. I've done some fedora, lots of Debian, but this arch is brand new so it's nice though. It gives you kind of three main columns with subcategories under there and one column's documentation. So it gives you all the wikis and all the let's get started kind of stuff. One is support so it gives you places you can go to get help and once for project which is if you'd like to support Cashios you can donate, you can volunteer, you can help develop, you know it it just allows you to get involved with the distribution. They also have tweak buttons for things like reinstall all packages, install gaming packages, a lot of other items that can be done with just a click of a button.

Ken McDonald [00:17:01]:
And there's an install apps button for installing some common apps. Now it isn't the full catalog of items, but it's a nice graphical menu for a lot of the things. You know the kind of the most popular things to get you Started. Now there is a different program, still graphical, that you can install the full library of programs. And of course you can always use the command line, you know. So like I said the first time using Arch, I really liked having that first step to kind of get me rolling, get my, you know, let me build up a little momentum, you know, it. The shell is fish and so far it's fine. I've.

Ken McDonald [00:17:38]:
I tweaked it a little bit to turn the amount of colors down a little as it was kind of overwhelming at first. You know, there was, it was a little extra color Y and sometimes I find that a little harder to view than, you know, I guess maybe I'm too old school. I'm used to a lot of the monochrome stuff and a few colors. Okay, but too much. Yeah, I'm not there. One nice thing though is there's a graphical configuration program that lets you change your fish profile. There'll be more of that later. Another foreshadowing, I installed Steam by installing a gaming metafile which loads all the gaming programs dependencies you need at once.

Ken McDonald [00:18:17]:
That was pretty nice. It's just a whole big bundle of stuff that goes in. I also use the native version of the Cash Us Steam client, meaning I will use the one that uses the optimized libraries. Now, something I didn't realize is Cash Us will use programs and libraries optimized for your hardware. So now because I have a Zen 4 CPU, it downloaded that version of the OS files and kernel and they've all been compiled to support the features of the hardware. It's kind of like Gen 2, but not with the granularity Gen 2 has with compiler options. But you do have version 3, version 4, Zen 4. So depending on what hardware you're running, it will tailor the it can tailor the libraries if you so desire, to what your actual hardware supports.

Ken McDonald [00:19:10]:
Now, I also learned, Now, I didn't realize this, the AUR is not part of the update or install program process with using the Pacman installer anyway. If you want to get something from the aur, you download it, then you need to install it. So it's like just downloading a package, then you install it locally like any other RPM or DEB package that's on your machine. I learned this because the only time I thought about getting something from the AUR was trying to get the desktop plex program. The media, not the server part, just the display part. So far, that's the only thing I found that wasn't ready already in the normal cache OS Files those on the Discord saw. I was really excited when they had my favorite music player, Dead Beef. It was, it was already in there and boom, instantly installed.

Ken McDonald [00:20:05]:
But Plex, they didn't have it. Some of them say that get it from the aur. Others say the Flak pack is better because it works. It works better. It's kind of 5050 on who has luck with it. But I kind of cheated and I just like, you know what, I can use the web interface because I'm just displaying. So that's what I went with. So I just used the web login and I was fine with that.

Ken McDonald [00:20:31]:
So I'm still learning so far. I'm really liking Cashios. I'll let everyone know if that changes or I have some major issues with it or more things I'm learning. But so far so good. Just taking the jump and happy I did.

Jonathan Bennett [00:20:50]:
So to quote someone from the chat room, so far it's Cache OS and not Crashy os.

Ken McDonald [00:20:56]:
Yeah, it's cache. It's not crashing on me.

Jonathan Bennett [00:20:59]:
That's good.

Rob Campbell [00:21:01]:
You're not using cacheos as your Plex media server. You're just using it for displaying whatever's in Plex streaming from Plex server.

Ken McDonald [00:21:12]:
Yeah, my server's running Ubuntu 24.04LTS and so I, I'm kind of doing the server thing where it's only getting the security updates. It's not running anything advanced. It's. It's, it's running everything really stable and I, I don't update that much. The gaming machine I have and slash play machine, this is the one that I run the latest greatest Night crash and I wipe and I throw stuff around and you know, if, if, if I, if I had this go down, it's not that big a deal where the server, it's like, oh, there's some pain there, but this is just not a problem.

Jeff Massie [00:21:54]:
So a few things. Butterfs is not the same as the XT4, not even under the hood. I mean, if you're just using as a basic file system, sure it's going to do what a file system does, but the thing is you're not getting your full value out of it. One of the big, I mean there are a lot of other things, but one of the things I like the best about it is the ability to. For snapshots. So my recommendation would be to. An easy way to take advantage of that is to get the application time shift and timeshift. You can do a snapshot.

Jeff Massie [00:22:34]:
I think it's been A while since I've used it, actually. But I think you can figure it to. Whenever you do an update, it'll do a snapshot first. So then you can easily, really easily roll back. So I would suggest that. And the other thing I was going to say is, you know, I've never used Cashy, but I'm. I'm thinking you could probably install Yay on there, which is Arch Aur Helper, and that would allow you to utilize the Aur if you wanted.

Ken McDonald [00:23:04]:
Okay. Yeah. Now it does take snapshots because whenever you do an update, it will tell you it took a snapshot.

Jeff Massie [00:23:14]:
That's probably using the butterfs feature.

Ken McDonald [00:23:17]:
Probably. Right now I'm only using. The file system is just a very basic file system.

Rob Campbell [00:23:25]:
That snapshot stored on the same storage device that the OS itself is installed on.

Jonathan Bennett [00:23:32]:
It's using better fs. Yeah, for sure.

Ken McDonald [00:23:36]:
When you go into Grub, you have an option of below your. Oh, go into different file systems or go into Debug or whatever. At the bottom, you could select a cache EOS snapshot. So you could go back in time and say, oh, I want to load up from this snapshot and it'll take off from there.

Jeff Massie [00:23:56]:
And it's a snapshot, Ken, so not a backup. But what it does is it snapshots where your system is, and then that's here. And then everything you do from there on is a. Basically an incremental change from that. And then if you do another snapshot that phrases that in time. And so you can roll back to those spots where you were. But if you got something like time shift, you can also use that for backing up. I think you could use that to back up also.

Jeff Massie [00:24:24]:
Or you could take snapshot sizes or maybe Cache has something built in. If. If you wanted to take a snapshot before you did something like, if I'm going to mess with stuff, I better take a snapshot. Timeshift still is a pretty good app.

Rob Campbell [00:24:37]:
Is there a way to duplicate that snap snapshot to an external or at least another drive so that you could, if you wanted to, just reformat the existing drive and then put it back from it, like Clonezilla can do?

Ken McDonald [00:24:58]:
Well, maybe you can, but it wouldn't be a full. My understanding it's not a full copy of what you have. It's a. Here is the differences. So you still need that original to apply the differences to. So even if you saved it off somewhere and your drive died, you're not going to have something that can boot. You know, you can't just reload a drive with that snapshot.

Jonathan Bennett [00:25:26]:
Yeah. You got to keep in mind it's more for playing around with things like system configuration and being able to roll back if you did an update that broke something. It's not for saving your hide if your hard drive dies.

Jeff Massie [00:25:37]:
Yeah.

Rob Campbell [00:25:38]:
Now if you. Pretty much like a snapshot with a vn.

Jonathan Bennett [00:25:41]:
Yeah, exactly.

Jeff Massie [00:25:42]:
It's. Exactly. That's why it's a snapshot, not a backup. But if you know. I know, I know. Zfs, for example, you can replicate. You know, it has a lot of the same features, butterfs, as far as snapshots and all that, where you can do like a Z send, I think, or ZFS send, where you can replicate that over to another place. I don't think Butterf has.

Jeff Massie [00:26:04]:
Butterfs has that, but maybe I'm wrong.

Jonathan Bennett [00:26:09]:
All right, let's move along then. And let's talk about. Oh yes, Ken, what's the new thing that has AI in it?

Rob Campbell [00:26:18]:
Well, there have been three updates to Calibri since the last time I talked about it, which was when the release of version 8.9 came out back on the 22nd of August. Some of the new features provided by versions 8.10, 8.11, and 8.11.1 include allowing you to control the tooltips displayed for every column by right clicking the column header and choosing Define Tooltip Template to set the tooltip for that column in the book list, allowing you to search by shortcut as well as by name in the Preferences keyboard menu and show the keyboard shortcut for each category in Preferences in the tooltip. And as Jonathan mentioned, it also includes a new Ask AI tab in the Dictionary lookup. In fact, let me go ahead and demonstrate how that works. I'm going to do a dictionary lookup on Dickens. Over here is the dictionary lookup, and it's got a second tab. I don't know if the fonts are big enough for you to read it, but it says Ask AI. If I click there, it goes with what the selected text is.

Rob Campbell [00:27:36]:
In this case, gives you quick actions such as Define, Explain, Fix grammar, key points, summarize or translate. Or I can type a question to the AI below for this to, for example, summarize this book. I don't even have a AI set up for this yet, so I'm wondering why it's giving me those options. Because when I first went in, it was saying, configure your AI.

Jonathan Bennett [00:28:02]:
What happens. What happens if you actually type a question in or you click on one of the quick actions?

Rob Campbell [00:28:08]:
That's a good question. AI provider I can find.

Jonathan Bennett [00:28:14]:
There you go.

Rob Campbell [00:28:16]:
Now the feature does support hundreds of AI models via features free providers like Google Open Router, GitHub, or even locally via Ollama. Now there's also several bug fixes that include fixing some regressions that happened with version 8.9 that broke markdown output, changing voices when the ebook viewers read aloud engine is set to automatically select, and a regression in 8.11.0 that caused conversion to be broken when metadata contains non BMP or characters in Windows, which I'm not really worried about myself since I only touched on some of the new features and bug fixes. I do recommend following the links in the show notes if you want more details.

Jonathan Bennett [00:29:13]:
Yeah, it I am I am suddenly struck by the need for some sort of E Ink Linux tablet to run calibre on. I wonder if the if you can run it on the Pine tab. We've probably talked about this before. I don't know.

Rob Campbell [00:29:32]:
I've never used it on an actual tablet. I've always run it on my desktop and then connect a tablet to it and use caliber to download the files of the ebooks I've got on my desktop to the tablet.

Jonathan Bennett [00:29:48]:
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Okay. So Rob, let's talk about Cosmic. We talked a little bit about Cosmic last week. Have you actually tried it? Are you running the Cosmic beta?

Rob Campbell [00:30:05]:
Is it out of this world yet?

Jeff Massie [00:30:08]:
It's out of this world. I. I'm assuming it's out of this world. I have not tried it since it's been in the beta. I've only tried it went back when it was alpha, but I don't know. I don't remember talking about last week. It seems like it's been a while since we've talked about popos. I think we talked a little bit about Cosmic being on a different distro.

Jeff Massie [00:30:30]:
Other than that it's been a while since we talked about Cosmic or anything because I don't know. They've kind of been an Alpha with not a lot of updates for a while, but this week they have released popos 24.04 LTS beta along with the beta milestone of their brand new well suit Someday brand new Rust based Cosmic desktop environment, both of which have been in development for over a year. This brings Cosmic out of the alpha phase and into the beta phase. PopOS 2404 beta is based on Ubuntu 2404 LTS obviously powered by the Linux 6.16 kernel, has the Mesa 25.1.5 graphics stack and the Nvidia 580 driver series. More importantly, it ships with Cosmic Beta, obviously, which now maybe, maybe polished enough for early adopters to start thinking about looking at maybe a little more seriously. So, as we've pointed out in the past, but for those who are new to the show, Cosmic isn't just a reskin. It's a full desktop environment built on Wayland. The beta introduces new Cosmic Files file manager with gallery view, instant search and adaptive layouts.

Jeff Massie [00:31:56]:
The Cosmic launcher for apps files, web search, calculator functions and support for advanced window tiling, workspaces and theming. System 76 has also swapped out GNOME defaults for their own suite of apps, Cosmic Files terminal edit, player, store settings and developers get app templates and documentation to make building for Cosmic straightforward. So, you know, it's still in beta, getting closer, but still not ready for, you know, regular production. Unless you're like Jeff, who apparently is a lot more adventurous these days. But both PopOS 24.04 LTS beta and the standalone Cosmic Beta are available now@system76.com for those eager to test. And I don't know, personally, I'm starting to get more excited for the Cosmic desktop and maybe a little less excited for popos. Popos kind of lags behind a little too much for me, but Cosmic being able to run on so many other desktops, that's the part that I'm, I think I'm getting more excited for. But I remember, I think it was about a year ago when I was showing off the first, I think that was the first alpha or my, this, my timing off, maybe it's two years.

Jeff Massie [00:33:23]:
I think it was last year though, it was the first alpha. And at that time I was thinking it was really getting close already and, and that they've come a long way in a short time. And with that, you know, I kind of predicted we're going to see a little more by this time. You know, they, they have come a little bit further this year and I, I, I'm pretty sure, I think at the prediction show that we had that I predicted the initial release or maybe I said possibly a release candidate would be out this year, but this year is kind of winding down and we're only just getting into the beta now, so. I don't know. You guys think this is gonna happen?

Jonathan Bennett [00:34:04]:
I, it seems like I saw Carl Russell talking about this on Twitter when he thought it was going to come out. I have to go see if I can find it. Probably, probably early next year.

Ken McDonald [00:34:17]:
Yeah, I seem to remember him talking about that the, the beta stage wasn't that long. For as long as Alpha was around beta, they were going to kick into a release candidate pretty, pretty fast, I want to say. I thought it was about the end of the year. First part of the next year was going to be the, the release candidate.

Jonathan Bennett [00:34:40]:
Yeah, well, so they took their time with the alphas to get it right. And so the idea is that the beta is not going to take too long, hopefully.

Rob Campbell [00:34:48]:
And I think they'll have popos 2604 by the time they release the full.

Jonathan Bennett [00:34:56]:
No, probably not.

Rob Campbell [00:34:59]:
Look, when 26 oh Ubuntu 2604 is.

Jonathan Bennett [00:35:02]:
Coming out, probably sometime around April of 2026 next year.

Rob Campbell [00:35:11]:
That's not that far away.

Jeff Massie [00:35:14]:
Yeah, but they're, they're, their base Ubuntu is usually lag quite a bit, I think.

Ken McDonald [00:35:21]:
So I think on 24, 242604 will be an LTS. They're not going to do anything too exciting.

Jonathan Bennett [00:35:29]:
Well, Ubuntu won't, but POP OS is surely going to try to get support for it. So this is something that Rob mentioned that's worth talking about. The guys at System 76, all of their engineers, they have put a lot of engineering effort into Cosmic and it has slowed down POP OS significantly as a result. You can see things are lagging. Once they do finally get the full release of Cosmic out, there is a good chance that popos is going to start churning along back much quicker. So I would not be surprised to see a pop os 2604 come out. Well, let's just say less than a year after Ubuntu 2604 comes out, or at least we shall hope. So.

Rob Campbell [00:36:12]:
I'm going to be optimistic and say definitely by the end of 2026.

Jonathan Bennett [00:36:18]:
Yeah, that would be ideal.

Jeff Massie [00:36:20]:
I feel like, I mean, I feel like even before this, popos has always been a little bit lagging behind Ubuntu, and Ubuntu has always been lagging behind itself. And, and I also feel like the people who like would be the people who would update POPOs, the distro, you know, those are maintainers. I wouldn't think that's necessarily the same skill set of people that, that are developing a desktop.

Rob Campbell [00:36:52]:
But I'm just trying to think of some of the other Ubuntu derivatives. I want to say Linux Mints one, Right?

Jeff Massie [00:37:00]:
Yes.

Rob Campbell [00:37:00]:
Yeah. How long after Ubuntu comes out do they normally have their derivative for the latest Version, not that long. And I think with some of the derivatives, they actually just follow the LTSs, don't they?

Jonathan Bennett [00:37:18]:
Yeah, some do.

Ken McDonald [00:37:20]:
Some follow each step. I mean, there's a ton of derivatives off of Ubuntu.

Jeff Massie [00:37:26]:
Yeah, hundreds.

Jonathan Bennett [00:37:28]:
So Popos 22.04, released 4-25-22, same month.

Jeff Massie [00:37:36]:
Okay.

Jonathan Bennett [00:37:37]:
So we are way behind as compared to that.

Rob Campbell [00:37:41]:
And that's primarily because of the work they've been doing on Cosmic.

Jonathan Bennett [00:37:46]:
They wanted to ship 2404 with Cosmic, and that has taken quite some time.

Rob Campbell [00:37:51]:
And they did ship 2404 with cosmic.

Jonathan Bennett [00:37:54]:
It looks like they're going to. Yes, but they've gotten the work done right. Like they. They have the base system in place and now they can move into sort of incremental updates for Cosmic. I think it's going to be much less of a problem.

Ken McDonald [00:38:09]:
And you don't have to tie it to Ubuntu. Cashios also has a Cosmic desktop, like me.

Jonathan Bennett [00:38:17]:
Yeah. If you want to run Cosmic, there are multitude of options. You do not have to use anything Drive.

Rob Campbell [00:38:24]:
Will you be running Cosmic before Rob?

Ken McDonald [00:38:27]:
Probably not. I'm more vested. The whole show today is foreshadowing. I'm more looking forward right now to 6.5 plasma.

Jonathan Bennett [00:38:42]:
We will talk about. In fact, you want to go ahead and talk about that now, Jeff?

Ken McDonald [00:38:47]:
Yeah, we can definitely. Let's do that things around here.

Jonathan Bennett [00:38:51]:
Let's talk kde. We've talked Cosmic. Let's talk kde.

Ken McDonald [00:38:57]:
And I'm surprised nobody talked about this before because it happened last week. But it's expected KDE Plasma 6.5 is going to be released on October 21st. But if a person would like to test drive before that date and help with the development of 6.5. Well, the 6.5 beta, which is just released, is just what you need. So you can load the beta right now. There are several new features which are coming in 6.5 betas, such as nighttime, which helps to schedule the dark light cycles for your system. This is a feature. You can change the desktop theme based on the time of day.

Ken McDonald [00:39:38]:
And when it's dark out, you can have a darker set of colors if you so desire, or you can adjust the screen temperature, meaning at night the computer could go to a more warm yellow shade than a bright white or blue tint. You can. You can make it how you want based on the time of day. There's also now support for GPU overlays. And without going into it, the overlay allows for more efficient composting of effects. On Windows, basically it's taking some of the load off your GPU. There's a call out for a 22 year old feature request which they they got to, which allows a person to mark an item in the clipboard as a favorite and it will stay there permanently. And this is, this is great for if you have something that you're always pasting in somewhere, you got maybe some long directory, you got some command or something, whatever you're pasting something in all the time now it can be a favorite, so you just always have it there.

Ken McDonald [00:40:38]:
It's also now possible to sync clipboards across clients and servers when you're on a remote session. So you can synchronize that and help help out a little bit. Windows are now going to have rounded corners, rounded bottom corners by default. Although personally I'll probably be turning that off as I'm not a fan of the rounded bubble look that some oss are going to. I specifically load third party programs on other oss that have a lot of rounded corners to square them back up. I like my Tetris stacking nice and neat, not rounded bits or squares should come together. But I digress. Plasma Discover now also supports flat pad, flat pack plus HTTPs URLs.

Ken McDonald [00:41:26]:
So now it's easier to install a FlatPak app from Flathub by just pressing the install button. So that's kind of cool. And you know, that's just a few of the things coming. There are a ton more items and if you take a look at the two articles linked in the show notes, you can get a lot more detail and see items which I've left out. And there's links in those articles that go even into more features were coming into 6.5. So this is going to be a big upgrade. And I didn't even go into all the bug fixing and you know, things like that which is going on as well. And a lot of those turns into like link trees where hey, look at this feature.

Ken McDonald [00:42:05]:
And oh yeah, they describe that feature and then they go, oh, here's 10 other things or 20 other things in here and there's a link there that goes to somewhere else that has, oh, here's a bunch more features going in. And so yeah, 6, 5 is going to be pretty cool. And historically, you know, knock on Wood, the 0.5. So 6.5 should be really polished. Usually by the time you hit the 0.5 things are really, really smooth and there's no sharp edges. But if you're so inclined, jump on the beta and help make sure there's no bugs in there in this release. So, happy exploring.

Jeff Massie [00:42:44]:
No sharp edges. I thought you're going to remove the rounded edges and you were going to have sharp edges.

Jonathan Bennett [00:42:49]:
It doesn't ship by sharp edges by default.

Ken McDonald [00:42:51]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm going to fix that. I'm going to hone that baby.

Jonathan Bennett [00:42:57]:
The sharp edges are optional.

Rob Campbell [00:43:00]:
The ability for Klipper to basically have snippets. Sounds interesting.

Jonathan Bennett [00:43:07]:
Yeah. Now, what is a snippet in this case?

Rob Campbell [00:43:11]:
Well, basically, save text that you've moved to the clipboard so that you don't. I call it a snippet because it's something that I'm repeatedly using.

Jonathan Bennett [00:43:22]:
Oh, the idea of favoriting. Yeah, I've needed that a time or two when I'm working on one thing, but I'm copying and pasting a bunch of things and then it's like, oh, I need that link again. It rolled off the bottom of the clipboard.

Jeff Massie [00:43:37]:
You're talking about the ability to pin stuff to the clipboard.

Rob Campbell [00:43:40]:
Yeah.

Jeff Massie [00:43:41]:
Yeah. I think that sounds pretty cool. I think that's going to be my new password manager.

Rob Campbell [00:43:47]:
That was referred to as a snippet. And get it.

Jonathan Bennett [00:43:56]:
I've got to say, one of the coolest parts of. I guess it's not just kde, but KDE is the first one that I saw that really did this, is that ability to have multiple independent items in your clipboard. Like that is quite a win for computing for the desktop experience. And every time I'm over on Windows, I really miss that. That is one of the features that it's like, why can't Microsoft do this? It would be so easy to implement.

Rob Campbell [00:44:22]:
They don't need to. You just run Windows in a VM and use the Clipboard on Linux.

Jonathan Bennett [00:44:29]:
I guess you could.

Ken McDonald [00:44:30]:
Why skip the middleman?

Jonathan Bennett [00:44:32]:
Why skip the middleman?

Rob Campbell [00:44:36]:
All right.

Ken McDonald [00:44:38]:
It's because, you know, mini rant here. Why is it that. Because I have to run Windows at work for my desktop. You know, corporate requirement. You can't tell me for as long as Windows has been around, I can't move my taskbar to, like, the left side of the screen. Like a vertical one. No, can't do that anymore. You gotta start over.

Ken McDonald [00:45:04]:
Every time they redo a new version, it's starting over from square one. Rounded, bubbly windows, and it's stuck with the start menu in the center of the left.

Jeff Massie [00:45:16]:
It's a new safety requirement. You gotta get rid of those sharp patches.

Ken McDonald [00:45:20]:
Yeah, I guess.

Jonathan Bennett [00:45:21]:
Yeah.

Ken McDonald [00:45:22]:
My Duplo operating system.

Jonathan Bennett [00:45:25]:
Yeah.

Ken McDonald [00:45:27]:
For those who are not in the US and not familiar with Duplo, they're like Legos, only they're for little kids. So they're just big round block things, no sharp edges and they're really big.

Rob Campbell [00:45:39]:
And hard to get in your mouth.

Jonathan Bennett [00:45:41]:
They hurt less to step on and they're impossible for toddlers to swallow. Yes.

Rob Campbell [00:45:46]:
Yes, nearly.

Jonathan Bennett [00:45:49]:
All right, Ken, there is a Linux distro out there that is explicitly not a Duplo style Linux distro. Why don't you tell us what's new with Kali Linux?

Rob Campbell [00:45:59]:
Yeah, and you can thank both Marius Nestor and Jack Warland who wrote about Offensive securities releasing Kali Linux 2025.3. It introduces Nexmon support, a patched firmware for certain wireless chips to extend their functionality, which finally implements monitor mode and injection mode for Raspberry PI's built in WI Fi. According to Marius, 10 new hacking tools made their way into Kali Linux 2025.3, including, I'm going to spell this out. K, R, B R E, L A Y, X, Kreblix. And then there's a LLM, Dash Tools, nmap. There's also mcp, KALI server and patch leaks. Now, according to Jack, this release marks a change in how Kali Linux makes vagrant packages are built. The vagrant images are no longer generated with Packer.

Rob Campbell [00:47:10]:
Instead, modifications to the images are now part of the virtual machine build scripts, and those scripts have also been upgraded to the Packard 2.0 standards. Now, I'm leaving out a lot of the interesting stuff that both Marius and Jack included in their articles. So if you do want to find out, for example, what those tools I mentioned do, definitely follow the links in the show notes and then tell me what the K R, B R E L A Y X is.

Jonathan Bennett [00:47:44]:
I'd pronounce it Kerber Relay or Kerb Relay X. It's kind of a play on Kerberos.

Rob Campbell [00:47:53]:
Funny, I think it talks about either Kerberos or Kubernetes. I'm turning around.

Jonathan Bennett [00:47:59]:
It's Kerberos. It's Kerberos. Yeah.

Rob Campbell [00:48:04]:
I'd have to follow the link into the show notes to find out myself.

Jonathan Bennett [00:48:08]:
Yeah, I think it's a pretty big deal though that Kali Linux has support now for the latest Raspberry PI's WI FI driver.

Jeff Massie [00:48:19]:
Yeah, you can make a handy little appliance with it. I was security. Not a. Not a security appliance like a firewall, but security appliance like for testing or testing.

Rob Campbell [00:48:27]:
Pen testing.

Jonathan Bennett [00:48:28]:
Yeah. So Google's AI says that it's krb. Relax. I'm not sure I believe that Curve.

Rob Campbell [00:48:36]:
Relax.

Ken McDonald [00:48:37]:
AI can be wrong. What?

Jonathan Bennett [00:48:39]:
AI can be wrong.

Jeff Massie [00:48:41]:
Yes, it can. And in my next story, I'm going to tell you how.

Ken McDonald [00:48:46]:
I didn't even mean to. I didn't even mean to pull a can.

Jonathan Bennett [00:48:51]:
Just comes naturally.

Jeff Massie [00:48:52]:
Oh, are we there? We are there, aren't we?

Jonathan Bennett [00:48:54]:
Are we there? Are we there yet?

Ken McDonald [00:48:56]:
An accidental segue.

Jeff Massie [00:48:59]:
Accidental segue.

Jonathan Bennett [00:49:00]:
Who am I to say no? Take it away, Rob.

Jeff Massie [00:49:05]:
So I know that I am often the one on the panel that's praising the benefits of AI and how useful it can be, and I still stand behind that sentiment. But this week I want to tell you a tale, a warning to you to be careful before running code that you haven't thoroughly reviewed.

Jonathan Bennett [00:49:29]:
Indeed.

Jeff Massie [00:49:32]:
I typically do look over the code and even the code I had issues with this week I skimmed the code and I didn't see any errors because I didn't necessarily know what some things were. But like, yeah, it looks good. So you know, and I've been sharing with everyone on the show about all the fun I've been having with the with Ansible and, and to help me learn and create Playbooks faster, I've been using AI Chat GPT more specifically. But you know, everything has been, has been working great. So I got a little complacent and you know, this story isn't exactly a Linux story, but it ties into many of the Linux y things I have been sharing lately with Ansible specifically. So I think I shared with you all how I started to create an playbooks to do to take backups of my local Proxmox VMs and then run updates after that on those VMs. And that worked great. When I, when I went through Chat GPT I think maybe I got some errors but yeah, I got this error and then it fixed it.

Jeff Massie [00:50:47]:
Didn't do anything too horrendous. But so what went wrong this week? Well, I wanted to create the same kind of Playbook for my my cloud virtual private servers, you know, up there in the cloud. I'm not going to name a place but you know, I wanted a Playbook to take a snapshot with the popular VPS provider I use and then run run updates on my servers. So I asked GPT, how do you do this? Make me a playbook? ChatGPT told me the correct Ansible collection to install that would work with my cloud provider. It was right about that and how to get the API token key that I needed. Then it also provided a Playbook for me, I skimmed the playbook and it had first had a section instead to power. First you power down the vm and then it had a setting, had a state setting of absent, then a section to take a snapshot. It said, by setting the state to present, then a section to power the VM back on by setting the state to active.

Jeff Massie [00:51:58]:
So state absent, state present, state active. Well, without reading the documentation, I didn't really know what these states did. You know, the collection that it follows, but if you listen closely and paid more attention than I did, you may have noticed the first one seems a little bit off. You know, it set the state to absent, which, you know, I guess it's. It kind of. When I wrecked, I'm like, yeah, absent that. That's probably powering it off. If it says this, it is, right? Well, when I ran the playbook, I got an error.

Jeff Massie [00:52:37]:
You know, some of them fail my. Huh? What the heck? So I went to go look at my servers or I went to go look at a few things. My virtual machines were gone. I was going to go in there. I'm like, let me do a snapshot and figure out what's going on here. I'm like, wait, I have no virtual machines. What the heck? So you can probably guess what happened.

Jonathan Bennett [00:53:04]:
Turns out absent really means absent.

Jeff Massie [00:53:06]:
Yes. Yeah, I thought I would school GPT by responding with the playbook, deleted my VM exclamation point, and ChatGPT very kindly replied, oh, no, I'm really sorry. That's on me. In the playbook I gave you, I used the state absent to power off the droplet in ansible. In the API, absent means delete it, not shut it down. That's why it was removed. And then it proceeded to provide me, you know, how to recover. It may not be recoverable.

Jeff Massie [00:53:53]:
You may need to call your provider and see if they have a way to restore it, you know, and then they also provided me a new playbook, which I have not confirmed yet. I haven't had the guts to test it. I'm gonna do a little more reading this time. It also provides some guardrails. I mean, it told me. It's like, hey, we're doing this. We're not gonna run absent anymore. I'm like, great, I'm gonna see what else.

Jeff Massie [00:54:21]:
I don't know what else you could do. That was dumb. So, fortunately for me, I have good recent backup, so I was able to recover. They were a little delayed because I. I only have it set to do weekly, so fortunately, the stuff doesn't change too much. You know, I should have backed it up right before I did the test. That's the other thing I should have did, which I didn't. But the couple day old was acceptable as the stuff doesn't really update too much.

Jeff Massie [00:54:52]:
I don't, I, I hadn't heard any complaints of anyone saying that things were missing from. Roll it back to the two days, a couple days. I know most people do not update them. One thing I did have to do because I had to change some DNS because the VMS were created as backups. My VMS were gone. So I had to create brand new VMS from the backups which gave me a new IP. But you know, it took me about 30 minutes of downtime and I was able to get all the DNS and everything was up again, up and running again. So the moral of the story is not to.

Jeff Massie [00:55:31]:
Is just don't blindly trust AI. Make sure you know what it's doing unless you're really sandboxed and you can test it out, I guess without fear. But don't test on live production and always, always have a good backup. That's the other one.

Jonathan Bennett [00:55:46]:
So folks, stick around to the end of the show and you'll be able to find out how you can hire Rob as the sysadmin for your corporation.

Jeff Massie [00:55:54]:
And take a snapshot or backup right before doing any risky things and be ready before anything goes wrong. Now hold on, I gotta, I gotta defend myself there. I don't do this stuff. I don't do things like that at work. This is my own little. These are my lab. Private. It's a little more than a lab.

Jeff Massie [00:56:13]:
It's more like a side gig with.

Ken McDonald [00:56:16]:
A testing in production.

Jeff Massie [00:56:17]:
Oh, I'm like, hey, it's going to work. What could you mess up? Taking a snapshot. That's all I had it doing. I didn't have it doing the updates yet because I already had a playbook to do the updates. How can you mess up a snapshot?

Ken McDonald [00:56:32]:
Well, there you go.

Jeff Massie [00:56:36]:
So there's the tail.

Jonathan Bennett [00:56:37]:
That's pretty great.

Ken McDonald [00:56:38]:
And does it count as skimming if you don't know what it says though? And if it's a virtual machine, was it ever really there in the first, the first place?

Jeff Massie [00:56:48]:
I understood the English words that were in front of me, just not their meaning.

Ken McDonald [00:56:56]:
I don't think that's understanding.

Jonathan Bennett [00:56:58]:
No, that's. I'm pretty sure if, if you look up the definition, the, the dictionary definition of understanding, pretty sure it includes under there, you know, the Actual understanding part.

Ken McDonald [00:57:08]:
I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Jonathan Bennett [00:57:10]:
You know, maybe you don't understand understanding.

Jeff Massie [00:57:14]:
Let me look that one up.

Jonathan Bennett [00:57:15]:
Okay.

Rob Campbell [00:57:18]:
Does it mean something about having a bridge over your head?

Jonathan Bennett [00:57:23]:
No, I don't think so. All right, there is. There is some new news that. There is some news that we have predicted for a long time. And actually one of the most surprising things is how stinking long it took to finally get a PI 500 plus. Now, I don't have mine yet, but it is ordered. I was one of the ones that got my order in before they went out of stock because most places have already gone out of stock. But the PI 500 plus is out.

Jonathan Bennett [00:57:55]:
It's available and there for a little while. If you're really fast, you could order it. And it has most of the things that we wanted on it and some of the things that we didn't know that we wanted. So the PI 500 plus has 16 gigs of RAM is one of the top changes. The PI 500 only shipped with, I believe, 8 gigabytes, if I remember correctly. Yes, 8 gigs. So the PI 500 was 8 gigs. The PI 500 plus is 16 gigs.

Jonathan Bennett [00:58:32]:
It's one of the big differences. The PI 500 had a place on the motherboard for an NVME drive because remember the Pi5, one of the big changes there is that it has an externally broken out PCI Express lane, right? And that has been a game changer for doing things with the PI because now you can put nvmes on it or other things, which we'll talk about here in a second. So when the PI 500 came out, everyone said, oh, finally, we're not going to have to use an SD Micro SD card. We'll actually get an NVME port on it. It'll be amazing. And then Raspberry PI released the PI 500 without a populated NVME port and lots of us were grumpy. The 500 plus has the NVMe port and it actually comes with a 256 gigabyte NVMe SSD. And then the other change is that it no longer the PI 500 plus is not a Chiclet keyboard.

Jonathan Bennett [00:59:32]:
It actually has a decent. I believe they are blue. What's the brand Name? Gateron. Gateron KS33 Blue switches with RGB if you wanted RGB. Yo, dog, I heard you like LEDs. So we put all the LEDs on your Raspberry PI 500 Plus. And so these are the three big changes. Now, there were a couple of other things I would have loved to see that as far as I know, are not on there yet.

Jonathan Bennett [01:00:04]:
Something that I actually personally asked Evan Upton for is mounting holes to be able to mount one of these things on an ARM or, you know, having more mounting options, I don't think that's on there, but I haven't gotten mine yet, so I'm not sure. But regardless, the three things that you get, the better keyboard, you get the ability to run the NVME on it. And it comes with a 256 gig NVMe and it has the 16 gigabytes of RAM. And so for me, that actually puts this in a really, really interesting position to be able to use as a development machine. So one of the things that I do is I run development builds for the meshtastic project. I.1 of my big things that I do there is maintain the native Linux port of it. And a lot of that runs on ARM machines. And so I have a VS code instance connected to a.

Jonathan Bennett [01:00:58]:
Right now it's primarily a 16 gig Raspberry PI 5 with an NVMe on it. And it's kind of a pain to have that hanging out on my desk because it's just the bare board. And so to be able to use the PI 500 plus is actually going to be really, really handy. It's going to live on a table over here, plugged into power, probably hanging off of WI fi, maybe plugged into Ethernet. We'll see. And so it's actually going to be really, really useful to have that as an option. The price, the price for all of this. Well, the original was $90.

Jonathan Bennett [01:01:32]:
The PI 500 was $90. The 500 plus is a whopping $200. It is not cheap. It is quite a bit. And so people of course are going to go, you could get an, you could get a nuke. You could get a little tiny PC, you know, one of those cube PCs off of Amazon for that much. Yes, you could. People that say that sort of missed the point.

Jonathan Bennett [01:01:56]:
Well, I, I was thinking about that and actually ran the math. Okay, so what, what are you actually paying for here? So we've got a difference of $110, right? And we know some things that we're getting from that. You're getting the RAM upgrade. So you can go look at the Raspberry PI 5 and compare the price difference between the 8 gig and the 16 gig models, and that is $40. So of that $110 difference, $40 is for the RAM upgrade. You can also go and look at the price of that NVME drive, buying it by itself, because Raspberry PI foundation sells just the 256 gig branded NVMe drive and they sell it for 36.95, which means that for the populated NVME socket and the better keyboard and the RGB LEDs, you're paying $33.05. That is. That is the breakdown.

Jonathan Bennett [01:02:55]:
Roughly $40 for the RAM, 36.95 for the SSD, and then 3305 for. For the rest of the changes to the model. And when I broke it down like that, I went, oh, that's actually not too terrible. That sort of makes sense. I see how that makes a lot more economic sense than I originally thought it did, but yeah, so this is not going to be for everybody, but for those of us that have one of these niche use cases where you really do need either explicitly a Raspberry PI or a decent ARM machine with good support, and you want something that's sort of already in a case that you don't have to have a bare board hanging off on your desktop. The PI 500 plus makes a lot of sense. So it's going to become part of my development kit. Go ahead, Rob.

Jeff Massie [01:03:45]:
And then I'll put Kali on there. Because of the new WI FI functionality in it.

Jonathan Bennett [01:03:50]:
You could put Kali on it. I'm going to run Raspberry PI OS because the stuff I do, I want to be able to do the official support support. So here's the big question for me, which is going to become the primary board for doing this, because I will now have two options. I will have the PI 500 plus and I will also have the Argon 41. What do they call it? The one up, I think. And that is their laptop that has the integrated CM5 compute module 5 in it. And so I will have one of each. We'll see which one I like better.

Rob Campbell [01:04:22]:
I can guess which one would become your. What's that term they used for when you would.

Jeff Massie [01:04:29]:
Paperweight?

Rob Campbell [01:04:31]:
No. Drive down the street trying to break WI Fi into WI Fi.

Jonathan Bennett [01:04:35]:
Yeah. We're driving.

Ken McDonald [01:04:36]:
We're driving.

Jonathan Bennett [01:04:37]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you could do it with either, but the one that has the screen built into it is going to be a little bit more obvious choice.

Jeff Massie [01:04:45]:
Ken was here now our guy gone.

Jonathan Bennett [01:04:50]:
Wow, it is one of those days. So anyway, Rob, I know you. You had this story too. Are you. Are you going to order. Have you ordered a PI 500 plus yet?

Jeff Massie [01:05:02]:
No, I I hadn't had a chance to look at it too deeply until I. And before handing it off to you to take. But right now that, I mean, I understand the value in it, but the $200 is more than I.

Jonathan Bennett [01:05:20]:
It's.

Jeff Massie [01:05:21]:
It's a bit right now.

Jonathan Bennett [01:05:22]:
Yeah, it's. It's a bit. You do have to kind of keep in mind when you think about the amount you're paying for it, obviously you. You get the stuff, right? But, you know, the. The upgraded ram and the NVMe. The other thing is, if you buy a Pi5 and you want to run an NVME well, you've also got to buy the hat to be able to do an NVMe. So, like, it's not as terrible of a deal as it sounds like it.

Jeff Massie [01:05:46]:
Is, and I don't need it, so.

Rob Campbell [01:05:50]:
And I was just looking, and it looks like they've got a M2 hat plus compact for only $15.

Jonathan Bennett [01:05:59]:
Now that is a new thing that Raspberry PI has come out with. Yes.

Rob Campbell [01:06:03]:
Throw in the 1 TB Raspberry PI SSD and $85.

Jonathan Bennett [01:06:10]:
Yep.

Jeff Massie [01:06:11]:
Yeah.

Rob Campbell [01:06:11]:
When it comes to the Raspberry PI, already have.

Jeff Massie [01:06:14]:
When it comes to things I don't need, if it's a hundred dollars, I can fairly easily without, you know, feeling too uncomfortable, just waste money on it. I know that's only two of those things that waste money on under $100, but it's still. When it's that one time, it's like, yeah, I think a little first, Mike, I really don't need this. But when it's under $100, I'm like, I don't care if I need it or not.

Jonathan Bennett [01:06:39]:
It looks cool.

Rob Campbell [01:06:40]:
In that case, Rob, my birthday's coming up. I could use into Hat plus with 1 terabyte Raspberry PI SSD in it.

Jonathan Bennett [01:06:51]:
No, I think you missed the point where he's okay with spending that money on himself.

Rob Campbell [01:06:58]:
No, I didn't miss it.

Jeff Massie [01:07:00]:
I was going to say, though, Ken, if you come up and visit, I'll buy it and you just have to come and get it.

Jonathan Bennett [01:07:04]:
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I will. I will legitimately use this, though. Like, I already use VS code with the PI 500 and just VS code on 8 gigabytes of RAM is not a great experience, so. And on an SD card is also not a great experience, so both of those together, it leaves a little bit to be desired. So I will absolutely use the 500 for development work. So that made it a little bit easier to Justify the cost.

Rob Campbell [01:07:38]:
All right, the only question I've got before we move on, will there be a 32 gigabyte version in the future?

Jonathan Bennett [01:07:48]:
I don't think there's a 32 gig PI 5 at this point.

Jeff Massie [01:07:51]:
Is there a 32 gigabyte Raspberry PI or PI 5 specifically? Does it count if it's a 6?

Rob Campbell [01:07:58]:
Raspberry PI?

Jeff Massie [01:07:59]:
Yeah, someday probably with the 6. I don't know.

Jonathan Bennett [01:08:05]:
I would guess that with the 6 they're going to have an option for 32 gigs especially because you've got like the orange PI 5. The orange PI 5 has a 32 gig model and so it is kind of out there in the market. And particularly as people are trying to do more LLM sort of stuff, you're going to need the more RAM to do it. Not that it makes a lot of sense to do that on a Raspberry PI, but you know, people, people be people and they do that sort of thing.

Rob Campbell [01:08:32]:
You want a local LLM.

Jonathan Bennett [01:08:34]:
Yeah. So one of the. Before we move on, one of the videos that I linked was Jeff Geerling, who interestingly has kind of become one of the authoritative figures on Raspberry PI, which is kind of fun because he is, he's a great guy. But Jeff, his thing that he has been doing with every Raspberry PI for the last few releases now is trying to hang a full size GPU off of it and with the NVME slot. Because NVME is just PCI Express. Right. That's basically what it is. He has an adapter to be able to get a one lane PCI Express extender out of it.

Jonathan Bennett [01:09:13]:
And there's like a 15 line patch to the Linux kernel that lets you then run full, full tilt AMD GPUs off of it. And so he's got a. The video I linked to was both his raspberry 500 plus review and also, hey ma, look, I've got a full size GPU hanging off of a Raspberry PI 500 and it works. So that was.

Rob Campbell [01:09:34]:
Must make it easier to keep it cool.

Jonathan Bennett [01:09:38]:
Not necessarily. Not as much as you would think. I mean, most of those are designed pretty specifically to work with the way airflow works in desktops.

Ken McDonald [01:09:48]:
Well, I was thinking more that it'd probably be cooler because with just one PCIe lane it's choking it down pretty good. That GPU is not going to be.

Jonathan Bennett [01:09:58]:
Running real fast, particularly for streaming memory onto and off of it. Yeah. All right, let's move on to the next story then. And it is Jeff and he's talking about Rust.

Rob Campbell [01:10:13]:
Yeah.

Ken McDonald [01:10:13]:
Michael Larable over at Pharonix was doing his normal benchmarking of everything in the universe and finding that Linux is awesome when he came across some failing benchmarks on the beta version of Ubuntu 25.10. The problem was with checksum errors and he figured out the issue was going on with ubuntu was how 2510 is replacing coreutils. Now is getting have the Rust version Of Coreutils. The 2510 won't be using the normal GNU tools. So Michael specifically said that if you rely on the Make Self archives, there's going to be a problem. Now, for those who don't know, Make Self is a small shell script that generates a self extractable compressed TAR archive from a directory. You know, basically the resulting file appears as a shell script, you know, and a lot of times they'll have the dot run suffix and it can be launched as is. The archive will then uncompress itself to a temporary directory and an optional arbitrary command will be executed.

Ken McDonald [01:11:22]:
You know, for example, like an installation script, Make Self archives also include checksums for integrity self validation. Well, when running his benchmarks, Michael kept having MD5 errors because but he had them stored locally and he'd had other checksums on them so he knew they were fine and didn't actually have an error. But to verify the issue was with the Rust versions of Core utils, Michael then replaced the core utils with the GNU version, which is, you know, what most distributions run. Well, the issues went away. Further digging showed that on the canonical Launchpad bug tracker there are some bugs filed about the issue. Now the big question is if 2510 is, you know, which is going to release in a couple weeks, is this going to be fixed or not? Now, if you don't use Make Self or don't rely on the MD5 checksums now, there's not going to be an issue. They work fine otherwise. Or at least nobody's reported anything too wacky yet.

Ken McDonald [01:12:24]:
But I mean, there is a lot of work going on with the Rust core utils because recently there was a performance regression which was found and the problem was quickly located, corrected. And now the Rust core utils have a higher performance than the standard GNU version. So while not perfect, there's a lot of effort being put in to make the Rust version work. There was also a thought that the real culprit is, is dd. And there is a proposed fix for DD where it can try to write to a slow pipe and be interrupted. There's, there's an issue where it, how it pauses and it, it, it will lose some data and so there's some thought that that could be the problem and it's not actually in the Rust core utils itself. I didn't really understand how the, you know, why it affects the Rust version and not the, the original version. But you know, it's, it's something to be considered because a lot of people seem to say, ah, this looks like it's probably it.

Ken McDonald [01:13:26]:
There is a patch for DD that's coming to take care of that, so we'll, we'll see if it takes care of it. Take a look at the article linked in the show notes for more details and links to the bug report along with the proposed fix so you can read through and decide for yourself.

Jonathan Bennett [01:13:43]:
Yeah, I know that some people are looking at this and going aha. We said it was a terrible idea to go to Rust in Ubuntu and it was aggressive. That is definitely true. But at the same time, reading through this, it looks like they found about three or four bugs in Coreutils itself in dd, in the Rust Coreutils and potentially also bugs in the scripting around makeself. So lots of churn and bugs getting found as a result of this. And I'm sure the people behind it will get this all straightened up because of course they don't want to ship a new Ubuntu with game breaking bugs.

Jeff Massie [01:14:24]:
So that's the benefit of having the new Rust utils in. Something as big as Ubuntu is it gets it out there, gets it tested and gets it fixed and it's going to improve a lot faster now. And you're all the guinea pigs.

Rob Campbell [01:14:41]:
It's one way to get the bugs to come out of the woodwork.

Jonathan Bennett [01:14:44]:
Yes, yes.

Ken McDonald [01:14:46]:
Turn on the lights and watch them scatter.

Jonathan Bennett [01:14:48]:
We are picking up the rock and letting the sunshine see all the bugs that scatter as a result. All right, yes, let's talk APT then. The other thing coming in Ubuntu is this new version of apt coming into Ubuntu 2510.

Rob Campbell [01:15:07]:
This is actually about a proposed merge that both Abhishek and Michael Lerbel wrote about. The proposed merge request is for the app command. According to Michael, Ubuntu developer and Canonical employee Simon Johnson has been working on this APT history support for the upstream code to benefit both the Debian and Ubuntu. So it's not just coming to Ubuntu. Simon submitted the Merge request one week ago, actually one week ago yesterday. This merge will introduce history log parsing and the history command. Now, instead of having to parse package history log files manually by piping the package list through grip, I'm sure Jonathan, you've had to do that. Or Jeff, you've probably done it a time or two.

Rob Campbell [01:16:02]:
You will have two commands. Apps history list will list all transactions in the history log and then you'll have apps history info which will list detailed info on a specific transaction. Now, according to Abhishek, with the dedicated sub commands in app, there will no longer be a need to create combinations of commands like I was just talking about and look through the log files just to know what and when a package changed, happened, making and Jonathan, I'm sure you'll agree with this assisted system administrator's life easier when looking for when a particular package was installed or removed and what happened during that package transaction. Now, in addition to links to Abhishek and Michael stories, I also have a link to the merge request itself that was actually accepted by Julian Andreas Claude yesterday.

Jonathan Bennett [01:17:09]:
So this is not going to be in the upcoming Ubuntu release. It's going to be a release or two in the future because this is all with APT 3.0 probably.

Rob Campbell [01:17:18]:
APT 3.0, yeah.

Jonathan Bennett [01:17:19]:
Yes. Well, it just goes to show APT is making progress on trying to catch up to what DNF and Yum have had for a decade now.

Rob Campbell [01:17:29]:
And this way we won't need Nala anymore as a front end. Ah, true, because that's currently how I'm doing the history options.

Jonathan Bennett [01:17:39]:
Makes sense. Makes sense. All right, very cool. Let's get into some chip, some tips. Not chips, we're not going to eat chips. Maybe after, maybe after the show we'll go have chips, but for right now we're going to do.

Rob Campbell [01:17:51]:
It's not made from silicone.

Jonathan Bennett [01:17:52]:
Probably not. Not going to eat those. So Rob has not learned his lesson.

Jeff Massie [01:17:59]:
Yeah. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to show you how you can use AI within gnome.

Jonathan Bennett [01:18:08]:
Let's hope it doesn't delete anything off your desktop.

Ken McDonald [01:18:10]:
Oh yes, so he never learned.

Jeff Massie [01:18:13]:
Let's see how this works out. So on Gnome there is a extension for Chat GPT. It's not in the normal extension place you can find on GitHub and then you install using their method that downloads and or clones it and makes and makes installs. So anyway, what it does is it's real simple. You just put this and when I enable it Just put this little Chat GPT icon up here in my. My bar here, my system tray. So if I click on that and it opens up Chat GPT and I could say, like, who. Who are the untitled Linux show hosts? Let's see.

Jeff Massie [01:19:01]:
Let's see if Chat GBT knows this.

Jonathan Bennett [01:19:04]:
Oh, this will be interesting. Yeah, yeah, me. Yep. Me and the three guys it does know.

Jeff Massie [01:19:12]:
And you know, that's all I got to show for you today. But if you want to install it yourself, go to the show Notes and I'll take you to GitHub and you can follow the directions and it's pretty easy.

Jonathan Bennett [01:19:20]:
Can you ask it to show you a picture of us? Can you do pictures in there?

Jeff Massie [01:19:25]:
Can you show us a picture of them.

Jonathan Bennett [01:19:35]:
Searching the web?

Jeff Massie [01:19:37]:
What?

Jonathan Bennett [01:19:41]:
Hey, it did actually pull pictures of us.

Ken McDonald [01:19:43]:
Hey, yeah, Very cool.

Jonathan Bennett [01:19:48]:
Nice. I like it. That is handy.

Rob Campbell [01:19:51]:
Can you use it to summarize what a yes script or programs doing from the sort by having it analyze the source code?

Jeff Massie [01:20:01]:
I'm quite sure that's easier things it can do.

Jonathan Bennett [01:20:04]:
Yeah. So it'll do anything that ChatGPT will do. I was mainly interested in the.

Jeff Massie [01:20:10]:
I'm going to say you can use the free version. I'm actually logged in here, so. Because I do have a paid version which I mentioned a few episodes ago.

Jonathan Bennett [01:20:19]:
Flow Connect in Chat wants to know how many forests did Rob just kill? It's okay, it's not very many for just one request. One request is not that bad. It's just all 7 billion of us making requests at once. That's when you really get problems.

Rob Campbell [01:20:39]:
So how much water is left for the rest of us?

Jonathan Bennett [01:20:41]:
Rob, he only used a couple of drops. All right, I've got a command line tip and it's a bit different. I'm going to talk about Bandit. And this is Bandit from Over the Wire. And it is a. It's a game sort of. It's a hacking simulator sort of. Let's take a look at it real quick.

Jonathan Bennett [01:21:09]:
This should be fun. So this is what you get when you go to the website, Bandit level zero. And it's letting you know that I think it's a hundred levels of a game. Right? But it's a Linux system administration game and it's a hacking game at the same time. Okay. So level zero is connecting to it. The goal of this level is to log into the game using ssh. And so what you do is you actually log in over ssh.

Jonathan Bennett [01:21:53]:
So let's take a look at this, see if I can actually get pop OS to cooperate with me here. So we know we want to SSH into bandit labs overthewire.org, but of course this is not going to work. It says the username is bandit0 and the password is bandit0. Yes, we will. Wasn't reading.

Jeff Massie [01:22:25]:
That's not how you use ssh.

Jonathan Bennett [01:22:26]:
That's not how you use ssh. That's right. And you also notice that trying to log into it tells you. It tells you right here you're trying to log into this SSH server on port 22, which is not intended. Use the port mention. Okay, so you have to go figure out. All right, well, we need to use a different username and a different port. So we'll say Bandit zero at.

Jonathan Bennett [01:22:50]:
And then we also want port. And I never can remember if this is a lowercase p or a capital p, but it's 2220. Let's see. Will this let us in? Yeah, this looks good. Bandit Zero's password is bandit0 and I am in. It's giving me some tips. And then we can go over to the website and we can say, all right, now tell me about going from level zero to level one and let me swap my screen share back to the website maybe. Nope.

Jeff Massie [01:23:36]:
We can see the website.

Jonathan Bennett [01:23:38]:
Oh, you can, you can see the website. Oh, okay. It's just not rendering for me. Well, that's fine. Linux. Tell you what, the password for the next level is stored in a file called readme. It's located in the home directory. Use this password to log into Bandit one using ssh.

Jonathan Bennett [01:23:54]:
And whenever you find a password for a level, use SSH on port 2220 to log into that level and continue the game. And so it is a game where you are trying to move through these levels by learning first off, simple Linux system administration. So we can, we can swap back over. This one is super simple. So I will just show you the sort of thing that we're going to do. Come back up. Share. Right? And so we're, we're SSH in to level zero, right? And it says that there is a readme file.

Jonathan Bennett [01:24:37]:
Hey, look, when LS there's readme. Well, what's in the readme file? Use CAT to get it out. Congratulations on your first steps into the Bandit game. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The password you are looking for is what looks like a sha or an MD5 hash, all right? And so you can log out and then log back in as bandit1 with that password. And then there will be another challenge. And I've gone through several of These levels and you know, they eventually get to rather challenging things like you know, search for what port is open and then connect to that port on the local on that machine.

Jeff Massie [01:25:19]:
Can you look ahead like what is the, the final challenge?

Rob Campbell [01:25:23]:
Sure.

Jeff Massie [01:25:24]:
Like how complex are we talking here? Well, so hack into the White House.

Rob Campbell [01:25:31]:
It's.

Jeff Massie [01:25:31]:
It's a trick.

Jonathan Bennett [01:25:33]:
Yeah, yeah, let's see. It gets, it gets to be sort of minimal instructions too. So this one says there's a git repository at. Clone the repository and find the password for the next level. It gets to the point to where you just sort of get to figure it out as you go along. And then on the over the wire webpage, if you go to just the War games link, you will find that Bandit is not the only one of these games that they have. Have, they have Bandit is their Unix Linux basics game. But then they have a web security game, a cryptography game, reverse engineering game, binary exploitation and reverse engineering about four or five different iterations of that.

Jonathan Bennett [01:26:31]:
And you know, it says each game here has its own SSH port. The idea is that this is like a series of sort of network security. It's almost like a network security lesson that you can step through if you want to. Bandit is really good though because it's just basic system administration stuff. But all of these are a lot of fun.

Jeff Massie [01:26:52]:
Alex is awesome. I want to try that.

Jonathan Bennett [01:26:53]:
Now somebody, somebody has a kitty too.

Jeff Massie [01:26:56]:
That's cat.

Rob Campbell [01:26:57]:
Yes, somebody does.

Ken McDonald [01:27:01]:
Gets a guest, they'll use an AI. Rob.

Jonathan Bennett [01:27:06]:
Show me a picture of Ken holding his kitty. All right, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, you are up.

Jeff Massie [01:27:12]:
Sir.

Jonathan Bennett [01:27:12]:
What is your command line tip?

Ken McDonald [01:27:14]:
So I talked about this as part of my first story and this command line tip is going to be a little specific for those who use the fish shell. So the fish shell is designed to be a more modern up to date shell versus some of the old standards like the seashell corn shell or Bash. It has a lot of features that people might like and you know, we have talked about it before on the show. If you're running the shell and you want to change how the shell looks instead of going into the config files, which you can still do if you so desire. You know, if you're just want to get in and edit with Nano or VI or whatever. Still, still totally, totally doable. But instead though, for those of us that would rather click, they have a nice web interface. So you simply type fish config in the fish shell and it will bring up a web browser window which allows you to change the colors Change what your prompt looks like.

Ken McDonald [01:28:13]:
Define your own functions. There's a tab for variables, which you can easily view all the variables of the shell and change them if you so desire. The history tab will easily list out all the commands that you've used, like, kind of like just typing history in the command line. Although you get an. You get to remove some from history. So this would be helpful if you're going through multiple commands. You know, where you're hitting up arrow a lot and running some same commands over and over. But maybe you mistype something.

Ken McDonald [01:28:44]:
You hit enter and then it saved that mistake in. In history. Well, now you can open this up and then just go, oh, let me just delete this out so I can keep my rhythm going. Key bindings can also be viewed and changed if you so desire. And so it allows you to just do a lot of stuff to make the shell your own. And if you didn't want to get, like I said in the files, this is one way to do it. So if you're on the fish shell or wanted to try it and didn't know how to change the look and feel of the shell, give fishconfig a try.

Jonathan Bennett [01:29:18]:
Very cool. Yeah, useful for those. Hello. All right, up next is Ken and this segment of the show brought to you by. What's the kitty's name?

Rob Campbell [01:29:36]:
That's Zoe.

Jonathan Bennett [01:29:38]:
Zoe. This segment brought to you by Zoe.

Rob Campbell [01:29:42]:
Well, this segment is also going to be talking about using WPCTL again to do some changes to your wire plumber settings. And I think somebody will.

Ken McDonald [01:29:59]:
Yeah, if you're on audio only. Ken has got a cat sitting up on the, on his chair behind him and it's rubbing on him and causing general disruption. So it's, it's, it's floating.

Jeff Massie [01:30:09]:
Floating.

Jonathan Bennett [01:30:10]:
It's floating, too. He's got that new chair delete from the new OBS version.

Rob Campbell [01:30:17]:
Actually, I've had that chair delete option for a while, but I'm going to go ahead and bring up my terminal here. For those of you all listening, I've got it up and enlarging it to make it a little easier for you to read. Is that big enough yet?

Jonathan Bennett [01:30:40]:
It looks good.

Rob Campbell [01:30:41]:
All right, now, as I said, the command I'm going to go with is going to be WPCTL space settings. I'm going to start off by using the H option, which will give us what the options for using this command are. It tells you what it does. It shows, changes, or removes settings. Now, some of the settings options are dash D or dash dash delete for deleting any saved settings. Now how do you get a save setting by using either dash s or dash dash save and you can reset the settings to their defaults by using either dash R or dash dash R. Now let's go ahead and just use settings by itself with nothing following. But it does need that S.

Rob Campbell [01:31:34]:
And what we get here is a whole bunch of different settings that Wire plumber has. For example, the auto switch to headset profile which is called Bluetooth auto switch dash two dash headset profile. And another one that I could see using a lot of your podcaster is the ducking level which has an ID of linking roll base duck dash level. So I'm going to go with that one to play with and what this also gives you a description of it in this case for this one it's called the ducking level. It's the volume level to apply when ducking a lower price priority audio stream so that a higher priority stream can be will be audible. It's the setting itself's a float type. And if you remember when we played with the get volume and sip volume options, you had a minimum of 0.0 with a max of 1.0. So you can see why it's to going considered a floating.

Rob Campbell [01:32:52]:
So let's come back down here to W to look at this. If you just type in the key value by itself and hit enter, it displays what it is. Now I can change that for example to $0 5. I need more light on my keyboard.

Jonathan Bennett [01:33:19]:
Need to get one of those. Need to get one of those fancy LED backlight keyboards.

Rob Campbell [01:33:25]:
It's got one, but they don't show through the keys just around. It's not a backlit. It's a RGB style.

Jonathan Bennett [01:33:34]:
Yeah.

Rob Campbell [01:33:35]:
Now as you see it said it's updated it. So let's go ahead and clear the screen and do settings again and scroll back up and look at the leaking rolled dash base duct level and you'll see it's got a value of zero. Now Jonathan, here's something you probably would never do while in the middle of a show. No, I'm going to restart my vm.

Jonathan Bennett [01:34:12]:
The magic there is that it's a virtual machine.

Rob Campbell [01:34:15]:
Yep. And we're waiting for it to boot up.

Jonathan Bennett [01:34:24]:
Somebody cue the Jeopardy music.

Rob Campbell [01:34:27]:
Yeah, Rob, you don't have the music queued up for me.

Jonathan Bennett [01:34:33]:
Ken, I think you're the only one that has an actual soundboard.

Jeff Massie [01:34:38]:
I'll get one.

Rob Campbell [01:34:38]:
Okay, so let's go ahead and expand that back up. I'm going the wrong way, aren't I there? Let's see. I think that's about right. And let's run the settings again. Scroll back up and look at that. And when I rebooted, it went back to the value of 03. So how do you save that? How do you think we save it?

Jonathan Bennett [01:35:20]:
Isn't there a dash dash save option?

Rob Campbell [01:35:22]:
Yes, there is. I'm glad somebody was listening.

Jonathan Bennett [01:35:26]:
Yeah.

Rob Campbell [01:35:28]:
Should I reboot again?

Jonathan Bennett [01:35:30]:
It didn't take long. You could.

Rob Campbell [01:35:33]:
All right. And.

Jonathan Bennett [01:35:38]:
Restart just to see. Just to see if it actually did the thing that you asked it to do. There's a chance that save doesn't actually save.

Rob Campbell [01:35:52]:
That's true, which is why I tried this out before the show.

Jonathan Bennett [01:36:00]:
Wise man.

Rob Campbell [01:36:03]:
Okay, where is that?

Ken McDonald [01:36:05]:
Rob told me you're just supposed to test in production.

Jonathan Bennett [01:36:08]:
I heard that too.

Rob Campbell [01:36:12]:
When it's somebody else's machine, I will. Rob.

Ken McDonald [01:36:18]:
Just send it. You know, don't worry about it.

Rob Campbell [01:36:25]:
There we go. I don't want to right click.

Jonathan Bennett [01:36:37]:
And. Yeah.

Rob Campbell [01:36:38]:
Did save it default?

Jonathan Bennett [01:36:39]:
And it even says it was saved value five. Nice.

Rob Campbell [01:36:44]:
Now, here's what's really nice is you can actually go in. If you find that's not right, you can try another setting. What do you think it's going to show as the value?

Jonathan Bennett [01:37:08]:
Yeah. So it tells you the default is 3, the current value is 7, and the saved is 5. 5. That is super useful.

Rob Campbell [01:37:16]:
Yep.

Jonathan Bennett [01:37:17]:
Very cool.

Rob Campbell [01:37:19]:
Now, what if you want to reset it?

Jonathan Bennett [01:37:23]:
Dash dash reset or dash R? Indeed.

Jeff Massie [01:37:29]:
You like the long way?

Rob Campbell [01:37:32]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Bennett [01:37:33]:
Sometimes you want to be verbose. Now, when you reset, it does resets to the default, but it leaves the saved value there.

Rob Campbell [01:37:52]:
Huh.

Jonathan Bennett [01:37:54]:
Interesting.

Rob Campbell [01:37:55]:
So what's it going to. If I reboot, what will it come up to?

Jonathan Bennett [01:37:59]:
I'm guessing dot five. Let's find out. Only one way to know for sure.

Rob Campbell [01:38:08]:
That's true.

Jonathan Bennett [01:38:12]:
And if it comes back to dot 5, there's then the question of is that intended behavior or did we just find a bug?

Rob Campbell [01:38:20]:
I'm going to say intended behavior for right now because that's what you saved.

Jonathan Bennett [01:38:23]:
Right.

Rob Campbell [01:38:27]:
You probably can't read that.

Jonathan Bennett [01:38:28]:
I cannot.

Rob Campbell [01:38:31]:
So let's go down to where.

Jonathan Bennett [01:38:33]:
There you go.

Rob Campbell [01:38:36]:
I find 29 is a good one to go with. And we'll scroll back up. And it did go back to five.

Jonathan Bennett [01:38:48]:
Yep.

Rob Campbell [01:38:50]:
So when you have a save setting, it does that. Now, if you want to get rid of that save setting. What command did I say to use?

Jonathan Bennett [01:39:02]:
I don't remember.

Rob Campbell [01:39:06]:
Dash D or dash dash delete.

Jonathan Bennett [01:39:09]:
Aha.

Rob Campbell [01:39:14]:
Let's clear that. And for those. Those of you all listening very quickly. Typing. Clear. WPCTL settings. Clear. Enter WPTL settings.

Rob Campbell [01:39:32]:
Enter to get back. And we see that that save value is no longer there.

Jonathan Bennett [01:39:38]:
Yep.

Rob Campbell [01:39:39]:
So this time if I reboot, it's going to go back to 0.3.

Jonathan Bennett [01:39:43]:
Or you could just run what was the dash S reset. It'll also drop it back to dot 3 without rebooting. Yep.

Rob Campbell [01:39:52]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Bennett [01:39:53]:
To get it back to that without rebooting. Yeah. Very cool.

Rob Campbell [01:39:55]:
Or you could go back through the episodes and find the one where I showed how to restart pipewire.

Jonathan Bennett [01:40:05]:
Yep, yep. Very cool. All right. I like it. I like it. That is what we have for today. That is the end of the show. We're going to let each of the guys get.

Jonathan Bennett [01:40:16]:
Get in a last word if they want to, whatever that may be. We will let. We'll let Ken go first just because he is the next one over. Right, right. Right over right over there. That's left to right across the radio dial.

Rob Campbell [01:40:33]:
I'm at the as you're as those of y' all watching are looking at the screen, I'm in your top right quadrant.

Jonathan Bennett [01:40:40]:
Yes.

Rob Campbell [01:40:40]:
But I've got two items this week. First, Saurav Rudra wrote about a request for comments proposing git make Rust mandatory going Forward for Git 3.0. And the second one is I was recently watching a podcast and I heard someone misquote Stuart Brand. You may have remembered when I covered his quote from history going back to out of Hackaday the book back on episode 164, where basically he just talks about information wanting to be both free and expensive. Now go back and find out exactly what he said.

Jonathan Bennett [01:41:32]:
Maybe not quite what you think it is. Huh?

Rob Campbell [01:41:36]:
Well, there's a bit of what we've been saying about information wanting to be free, but you got to remember, information is valuable indeed.

Jonathan Bennett [01:41:48]:
I think I like Steve Gibson's take on that. Information wants to be free and code wants to be wrong was one of the early security nows that they coined that. All right, Jeff, what do you have for us?

Ken McDonald [01:42:02]:
Like I said, I lost a little bit of poetry and whatnot, but I had some backups. Not just as recent as I hoped because I had an oversight. So hopefully in the coming weeks, you don't hear any repeats, but I can't promise anything. But this week it's. Project completion draws near due by the end of the year. The servers are old. Update them, I'm told. I'd rather go drink a beer.

Ken McDonald [01:42:30]:
Have a great week, everybody.

Jonathan Bennett [01:42:34]:
I like it.

Jeff Massie [01:42:35]:
And Rob all right. For those who want more of me, you can come find me robertp Campbell.com. that's my website and on there there are links to my LinkedIn. My blue sky. No, it's my Twitter. My Blue Sky, My Mastodon. And a place to donate some copies just to say thanks for what I do.

Jonathan Bennett [01:43:00]:
Absolutely. All right. I appreciate the guys being here. Thank you so much. And we sure appreciate everybody else being here as well. Those that watch and listen. If you are a watcher or a listener and you are not part of it, you should really think about Club Twit. There's the QR code to scan to join the club.

Jonathan Bennett [01:43:24]:
It's not much more than the price of a cup of coffee per month. And it gets you ad, free access to shows, gets you on the discord, all kinds of other fun stuff. You should think about it. We do appreciate those that are there. If you want to find more of me, there is Hackaday. That is Hackaday. I promise it's just scrolled down because something caught my attention right before the show. But you can find my stuff over there.

Jonathan Bennett [01:43:46]:
That's where Floss Weekly is at and also where my security column goes live every Friday morning and would be glad to have you jump in and check that out. We appreciate again those that watch, those that listen, those that get us live and on the download. And we'll be back next week on the Untitled Linux Show.

Leo Laporte [01:44:06]:
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