Untitled Linux Show 209 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show

00:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Hey folks, this week we're talking about faster gaming on Linux and the parting of ways that may be coming to the Linux kernel. Regarding BcashFS, there's an affordable Linux phone that secretly runs Android, Wine is getting closer to supporting the NTFS sync and a bunch more stuff that you don't want to miss, so stay tuned.

00:23 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
Podcasts you love From people you trust. This is Twit.

00:32 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
This is the Untitled Linux Show, episode 209, recorded Saturday, june the 28th, riding off into the sunset. Hey folks, it is Saturday and you all know what that means. It's time for the Untitled Linux Show. We're going to talk about the OS itself, gaming, hardware, all kinds of stuff. There'll be drama, there'll be wins. It's going to be a lot of fun. It is the trio today. I've got Mr Rob Campbell and Mr Ken McDonald with me and we're going to have a lot of fun today. Guys, we've got some stories here. We're going to let Rob go first and we kind of have a theme. We have a couple of themes and it's a good theme Most of it. We'll get to the drama later. Rob's going to bring the drama too. I saved that. You saved that for last. Yeah, but Rob, what is the? Give me the good news first.

01:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, so, anecdotally, I've always said my games run faster on Linux, using Proton, than they even do natively on Windows. And you know, I've had debates, arguments, whatever you want to call them with people in various places online, with people disagreeing and all the stuff involved, and I didn't know if I was just imagining it or what I didn't think I was. But now Ars Technica has published some benchmark testing. I mean, I wouldn't say it, it's extensive, but they've done some testing that pretty much confirms exactly what I have been saying. Specifically, ours tested a handful of games on the legion go, which is this the steam deck competitor, uh, which by default comes with windows. So they test on the leg Legion Go under three different scenarios. So the competing scenarios were they tested Legion Go with SteamOS, they tested with the default Windows 11 with the default Lenovo drivers and they tested with Windows 11 with the Asus drivers, so the actual manufacturer drivers. They tried with them, the Legion Go, you know, being a Lenovo product, and the Lenovo drivers were default. But they found that everything ran better with the Asus drivers and, like Doom the Dark Ages, for example, actually wouldn't even run at all with the Lenovo drivers. Citing that, yeah, it gave an alert saying that the drivers were out of date. So I guess there's something that Gann was looking for the deeper manufacturer drivers, or I don't know what they're looking for. But they couldn't even test that one on that scenario. So they tested five games. The five games that were tested were Returnal Borderlands 3, cyberpunk 2077, homeworld 3, and Doom, the Dark Ages. So they tested under a couple different graphical scenarios, resolutions, and you know, obviously you raise the resolution, the FPS is going to go down. You know. But that you know the FPS, the comparisons were still the same. So I'm just going to focus on the results of the high graphics presets 1920 by 1200 resolution test, because, uh, the smaller one, you know it's, it's the same thing but faster fps. So in these, if you look at the ars technica article yourself, you can see these graphs. But in this for the fps is what I'm talking about here returnal steam os had 33 uh frames per second fps, while windows 11 and the lenovo drivers only had 18 fps. Now when they updated to the asus drivers it got a little better, but it still wasn't as good as the SteamOS drivers. At 24 FPS Borderlands it was a lot more even there, with actually SteamOS kind of falling behind SteamOS 18.3. Windows 11 with Lenovo drivers 18.4. Pretty much the same. Windows 11 with Lenovo drivers, 18.4, pretty much the same. And then the Asus drivers under Windows 11, 19.6, a little bit higher. Not much Cyberpunk 2077, we're back at it with the Linux SteamOS kind of whipping the others again. So 17.9 fps. Steam os 14.4 with the windows 11 lenovo driver, 16.6 with windows 11 asus drivers. Home world 3 very similar. You got 17.1 for steam os, 14.5 for windows 11 lenovo drivers, 16.4 Windows 11 Asus drivers.

05:45
And the last game that they tested on was Doom, the Dark Ages. There SteamOS also came out ahead with 15.3 FPS. Windows 11 Lenovo drivers. Wah, wah, we have an NA because they couldn't even get the game to run on that. Huh, they got the game to run under Linux when under a scenario under Windows 11, they couldn't even get the game to run on that. Huh, they got the game to run under Linux when under a scenario under Windows 11. They couldn't even get it to run. And now, if they updated ASUS drivers, they were able to run it, but still less than SteamOS With only 13.9.

06:19
So all those Only on Borderlands 3.

06:21
Was the FPS slightly faster on Windows, but overall, showing an obvious, clear winner for Linux, proton and the SteamOS, valve and all them in general, all the hard work they've done.

06:35
But you know, unfortunately, overall, even though most games run great on Linux today, there are some games that still require tweaking, others still don't work and which, to be fair, apparently some don that still require tweaking, others still don't work, which, to be fair, apparently some don't work on Windows either, and some online games are blatantly hostile towards Linux. While the games function just fine on Linux, the games or the game servers themselves will actually block you from playing online with their game if they detect that you are using Linux. But you know, we're kind of showing that the technology is there. It's just the support for you know, from the devs and those. So you know we all deserve a better gaming future, the ability to run games on the best systems that actually are capable to run it the best. So vote with your dollars, complain to, you know, the game companies when your game doesn't support linux. You know, because it's becoming obvious, with the right support, that this is the better option.

07:50 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, you know, it's interesting to me. This is what Valve said back when they first started porting things to Linux, even before there was like a Steam OS. They did this whole write-up about how it was the Left 4 Dead, left 4 Dead, left 4 Dead 2, left 4 Dead 2, write-up about how that it was uh, the left for dead, left for dead, left for dead two, left for dead two, I think, about how that importing that to open gl, they were able to to push the frame rate up but also like the, the latency on down significantly using, I think back then it was open gl versus uh, the, the x and uh. Yeah, it's interesting, interesting that that's still a thing, it's still possible. It's real fascinating to me that this is true, even with the proton layer in between. But yeah, very cool and on a handheld design for Windows.

08:38
Yeah, yeah, but it's AMD hardware, so like not necessarily purely designed for Windows. I mean, it's AMD hardware, so not necessarily purely designed for.

08:46 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Windows. I mean it's all designed for Windows and us Linux. People have to make it work often, but that's, it depends. I mean, a lot of the manufacturers today are providing more actual native Linux support. But it wasn't that long ago. Where you know a computer manufacturer, they make their device, they make their Windows drivers. They never made it Linux drivers. Someone else had to come in and you know, figure it out and make drivers for them. Yeah, which has improved a lot.

09:25 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yes, things have sort of changed though. So, like, when you're talking cpus and where they get used, so many of those will go to data center and so much data center work is on linux. Uh, the interesting thing with gpus is a lot of those gpu cores are actually going to power ai things now, and guess what os it is that's doing all of that number crunching?

09:46 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
it's not windows you know this article also talks about, like 10 years ago they did a write-up, uh, a similar one, where back then, uh, running, running these games on linux it it didn't compare. But you know, a lot of that is thanks to this proton layer and the huge improvement they'd done. But even back then, my experience 10 plus years ago yeah, I for, for 10 to 15 years ago I was, I was a minecraft player for some time. There I ran a server, all kinds of stuff like that, and and at that time, due to gaming, I dual booted, I booted into windows to play a lot of my games. I'd boot into linux, to you know, go out through my day and do everything.

10:22
But at that time, due to gaming, I dual booted. I booted into Windows to play a lot of my games. I'd boot into Linux, to you know, go out through my day and do everything. But at that time, for Minecraft you know the native Minecraft, because you know we're fortunate enough to have a native there I would boot into. You know, this is the exact same computer. I would boot into Linux and get literally double the FPS. This is exact same computer. I would boot into linux and get literally double the fps. This is an older computer so I want to say I was getting like 64 fps compared to like 30 at the time if that you said native minecraft, well, as native as anything written in java, I mean it's java, it's cross-platform, but it's yeah.

11:04 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It's one step away from native.

11:06 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
It's as native as it gets anywhere.

11:10 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yes, as that application gets. Anywhere. Yes, yeah.

11:14 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, Even then it ran faster.

11:17 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, all right. So, speaking of which, there's a couple of things that I am going to jump into right now, and that is we've got another wine release, wine 10.11. And there is a thing that is percolating in wine that is not quite ready yet, but it's really close. So this is Michael's coverage on it, and it's in T-Sync. No, not the boy band from the 2000s. This is the synchronization primitive that got added to the kernel to make it act more like Windows specifically for Wine, and Wine 10.11 has some of the groundwork laid for that. I believe programs like Proton already support this. I'm pretty sure it's already in there. So this is just getting this upstreamed in a way that is acceptable to the wine developers, and then I'm sure Proton will switch to it eventually. But if you're still running vanilla wine, then this is going to make quite a difference. It really is a big speed up on some titles in particular, and of course there is your other, you know, fixes and new things in wine, as there normally is. Uh, they have 25 known bug fixes for a bunch of different games, some very fun games mentioned here, like command and conquer, general, zero hour, fallout 3, thief 2 and civilization 3. So some big titles, uh, so wine is continuing to make progress.

12:43
There is another bit of interesting gaming speed-up news and that is that the Rad-V Vulcan driver so this is in Mesa, the driver inside of Mesa has added a ray tracing optimization that is strictly RDdna3, uh, and newer, which I believe. Rdna3 is the amd uh that just came out is their, their latest, uh, their latest cards, and you know, we looked at um sort of the, the performance between windows and linux and the rdNA 3 cards and the older cards, and one of the things that we pointed out oh, no, excuse me RDNA 3 was the ones released in 2022. So that's the 7000 series and newer. So we're on our RDNA 4. I misremembered that. I'm glad I looked. Anyway, so this is a plug for a plug for our DNA three and our DNA four, and it's going to make ray tracing quite a bit faster on those particular cards.

13:59
Let's see, I mean it's a. It's a moderate improvement. So in one case, a trace took 4.45 milliseconds and it dropped down to 4.40, which that you're not going to be able to feel, but in another case it dropped from 5.39 to 4.35 milliseconds. It's like a 20% improvement that you'll be able to feel. So it just depends. It's going to vary from game to game, but this is another win. We'll see it in Mesa 25.2. And if you have a current generation or previous generation AMD card, you'll see a bump in ray tracing performance as a result. So that's cool Gaming on Linux. It's getting better. Yes, it is. Yep, I enjoy that. I have not gamed. I've not gamed for a long time Like a game that actually has ray tracing, a triple A adjacent title. Well, I haven't done much of any gaming for quite a while, but a title that's triple A enough to have ray tracing turned on, it's been a long time I enjoy. It's been a long time I enjoy it.

15:06 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
It's a long time for it yeah, all the graphics are great, but I've I've historically have had cheaper pcs and just wanted to get performance um so much than, uh, high graphics. But you know, I guess, if I, if I had all the stuff I needed, which I, I mean, I guess I kind of I do now, but I guess it'd be nice to use it.

15:32 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, ken, if I at least am going to be gaming, I'm going to be doing it on KDE, and there's some new news there, isn't there?

15:39 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, there is. This week we hear from Marius Nestor and Nate Graham about various improvements and bug fixes to Jeff and Jonathan's favorite desktop environment, as you said, kde Plasma. According to Marius, kde Plasma 6.4.1 improves text contrast for labels used in subtitles or other secondary roles throughout the Plasma desktop. Improves the text readability of list items in K-Runner and Discover when they are pressed or clicked. And improves the readability of graph axis labels throughout the Plasma desktop to meet the WCAG AA standard. Now Nate talks about turning off the highlight window effect for task manager thumbnails by default.

16:34
Kde Plasma 6.4.1 improves the Plasma Discover graphical package manager by improving the list views to be properly navigable. Well, try saying that three times With the keyboard. Trimming all white space on the search field to prevent errors when copy pasting text that ends in a space I've tripped over that a time or two and fixing the missing backends section in the settings window that prevented it from working correctly. Now this release fixed several bugs, including issues related to Jonathan's favorite subject HDR ToneMapper, reducing reference luminance and syncing virtual desktop grid to new virtual desktop order. Now, since I've only touched on the various fixes improvements, I do suggest reading Marius and Nate's articles for more details, especially how Nate feels this is going to help with addressing accessibility issues.

17:41 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, interesting stuff. So where was the detail about tone mapping? You know I was doing the thing where I was looking at another link and now I'm trying to remember exactly what you said and find it in your articles.

17:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Well, it's actually in Marius's article, or I may have gotten that from the actual.

18:01 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
The change log itself.

18:03 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yep.

18:05 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Let's see.

18:07 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
But tumbleweed is up there with it.

18:11 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
K win core open GL. Allow the tone mapper to reduce reference luminance more. I am. I am very intrigued by this.

18:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I don't know if that's going to be big enough for everybody to see on their screen, but my OpenSUSE Tumbleweed virtual machine is actually running 6.4.1.

18:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It is mirrored. Got to look at it upside down and backwards. All right, can you hit the right buttons't? Don't crash your browser again. No, we don't want to do that. No, no, I mean it was entertaining, but we'll take your word for it.

18:54 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's all right, uh yeah, and I might be able to try to think where I can.

19:03 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
We could fix that in post.

19:06 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You got that twit guys right? I mean, I mean, they could I doubt that. There it is. I saw that.

19:12 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Restream was mirroring, yeah.

19:14 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, even came with a fun little animation when you did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it.

19:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It's cool there All right, yeah, so OpenSUSE Tumbleweed's rolling right along with it. I'm just waiting for it to get the next update of Pipewire, which I'll talk about later.

19:38 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, you know there is another bit of KDE news this week, another KDE Nate Graham blog that actually came out today and I think it's got some new stuff in it that you didn't mention, ken. And one of the big ones here is that they've implemented support for the XX Session Management V1 hooks in Wayland inside Qt 6.10, right. And so you kind of have to imagine the way this holds the whole stack for KDE works. So when they want to add something, they go to the Wayland GitLab where it's hosted there and they say, hey, we would like to add the ability to do, in this case, session restore. It's not just the kde guys have been asking for session restore, but they're one of them. We would like to do session restore. Well, in this particular case, there's been bike shedding and yak shaving around it for years, but finally it landed. And then, because kde is built on top of qt, of cute, the cute libraries, it has to be added to cute, which that has now happened. And so you know, if Wayland is the top layer, qt is the next layer, and then we're ready now to be able to do the bottom layer, which is or it's not the bottom layer, it's the next layer which is, hey, let's add the session management stuff to be able to do session restore into KWin and KDE Plasma and great, that'll be good. And then you know, you get to the layer below that and you'll have the ability for a web browser Next time you open it to go, I would like the windows to be here, here, here and here, and then finally, when Chrome crashes and you open it back up, instead of having all of your windows stacked on top of each other, it can actually put them back where they were. And talking through all of that, this is a lot of work for a silly feature, but it's going to feel so good when it finally works.

21:36
There's other things in here as well, and one of the particularly interesting one is, um, the the accessibility thing, and so this is something that I don't know. If you've paid attention, there's been a lot of chat and chatter around accessibility in wayland and how there are still some problems, um, but nate has a bit of a comment about it in here and he talks about a couple of things that they've changed for accessibility reasons, and I believe it's in. I'm not seeing it at the moment, but I believe it is in this article that he makes a statement that you know, you know, you've heard, we've all heard about the accessibility problems in Wayland, but it's actually not bad in KDE and they are, um, they're definitely trying to make it better. In fact, the the article I was reading, he made the statement they're putting their money where their mouth is and paying for some work for accessibility in kde. So it's coming along, it's coming fun stuff.

22:41
Yes, it is. Yeah, I'm, I'm now, I'm totally lost into the uh, the hdr and the tone mapper thing. You guys, you got me on this rabbit trail. Ah, goodness gracious now.

22:55 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Should we get you going down looking for a phone?

22:58 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
so is this a different phone? We just like two weeks, one or two weeks ago, we talked about one phone. Is this a different one, rob?

23:05 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I haven't heard of one phone. Who makes that one?

23:09 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
well, I think there is.

23:11 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I think there is a one phone, but maybe that's, we didn't talk about listen to android faithful to learn more about that one, I guess yeah, I, I do bring up, uh, linux phones on here from time to time, once or twice a year, it seems like, because there's a lot more of them than you really kind of realize, you know, and mainly the reason is because this is a future I really want to see happen, you know, and this year I'm bringing it up twice so far, you know, and it's something I think it's something we really need, and there's no reason we shouldn't have more mainstream Linux phones. So there are a handful of phone makers out there. You're trying to make it a thing. Unfortunately, they are all somehow mostly very forgettable, you know, like we forgot what we just talked about a few weeks ago.

24:08
Or like this one, the Fairphone. I've heard of them before and I forgot about them, but I've heard about it again and I looked into them now to see what they have announced here. So they just announced their Fairphone 6. And you know, although I've heard of the Fairphone, I have forgotten all about them until now. So the new Fairphone still isn't as cheap as the PinePhone, probably not as cheaply built either. It is far more cheaper, or, should I say, affordable. Far more affordable than the quote affordable phone option I brought up a couple weeks ago, this one coming in at around $695 US, being a phone that can run Linux. One of the great features of the Fairphone is that it has a focus on repairability, being easy to take apart, swap out parts and put back together, unlike these glued monsters that most of us have today. And the specs of the Fairphone 6 should be a lot faster than, uh, you know, most computers, uh, most of the old computers we used to have, you know, faster than what ken is running today, starting with being powered by a qualcomm snapdragon 7 s uh gen 3 processor, 8 gigs of ram. Gen 3 processor, 8 gigs of ram, 512 internal storage, expandable to two terabytes via micro sd a 6.3 inch oled, 120 hertz display, 4,415 milliamp battery camera and a 13 megapixels. I'm at a 50 megapixel main camera and a 13 megapixel ultra camera. So by default, this phone isn't exactly a Linux phone. I thought that's what I was going into when I went down the rabbit hole on this, but so out of the box, it's not Linux phone.

26:28
You know, after reading the pharonix article about this new Linux phone, I went to the site to find out more about it. How can I purchase it? Where can I purchase it? And all I could find were android options. Um, you know that the regular one they have a de-Google Android one Sounds pretty cool, but eventually in their FAQ, under the support section, I found that they provide detailed instructions to install Linux on this phone and the recommended way. I haven't tried it. The recommended way sounds pretty easy, as they say. The recommended way is to just do it through their Fairphone updater app. I suppose that's like their software setter essentially, which, unfortunately, the link in their FAQ section. It goes to a dead link in the Google play store. Oh, it's not there. So I don't know if they just haven't updated their FAQ and it's. It's somewhere else and hopefully they still have it.

27:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It may be that, as an American coming to the play store from the U S, you will cannot get to that link. That is a thing that happens sometimes.

27:40 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, maybe. So you know, if I'm to use a VPN, yeah, but if that doesn't work for you, they continue with the directions of how to manually do it. So, although their Fairphone seems like a decent Android device, you know, even selling a de-Google version, I'm a little bit disappointed it doesn't come with Linux out of the box. But also, you know, it's great that they at least provide Linux tree drivers, you know, right out or on day one that has been released and directions which I haven't been able to test because nobody's bought me one of these phones yet, which I haven't been able to test because nobody's bought me one of these phones yet. But there's directions that everyone you know you would need. Hopefully, everything you would need is there to upgrade it to Linux. I had hoped for a little bit more, but you know it is what it is.

28:35
Yeah, I mean there's some phone distros out there that you could totally put on this thing. Yeah, I mean. Sure there are plenty of other more mainstream phones out there that you can pull Linux on, but they don't make it as easy as this one is supposedly. So it seems like a fairly standard spec phone could compete with most of your phones today, I think. So you know it seems like potentially a good option.

29:14 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Do you think they could guarantee?

29:15 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
eight years of software support if they did ship it with Linux on it by default. I mean, you can't, you can guarantee stuff, but you can guarantee anything you can promise anything, but you never know what the future brings. I you know. If you could install Linux on it, I guess the only thing that would stop it is if, whatever you know, the hardware in there gets dropped from the kernel and I wouldn't see that happening in eight years at least, unless they're using some really old hardware, which, from what I read, they're not.

29:49 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I think it's probably more. The danger would more be that the support never fully lands in the kernel at all. That would be the one to really worry about. Yeah.

30:04 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Unless you had a hardware manufacturer helping to support that.

30:09 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I mean, even then you can't guarantee that it's going to happen.

30:12 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
But yeah, I mean we'll talk later on about how how Linus, you know, keeps things out of the kernel.

30:20 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
He didn't keep it out of the kernel this time.

30:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Just don't try to submit it as a feature in the middle of a.

30:28 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Yeah, no, this is interesting. The almost Linux phone from Fairphone is definitely interesting.

30:37 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, fairphone's been around for a while. I've heard of them. They're up to definitely interesting. Yeah, fairphone's been around for a while. I've heard of them, they're up to six already. Yeah, they're already up to six. I do hear about them every few years and then forget all about them. You know maybe.

30:49 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Would you like to go back to the days of BIOS with it?

30:53 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That would be an experience. Probably not a good experience, but it'd be an experience.

30:58 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
An experience, be an experience, probably not a good experience, but it'd be an experience An experience. But Liam Proven wrote about a new iteration of a project as a modern C++ user interface library. The project is called Cosmo, that's C-O-S-M-O-E, and it pulls off several neat tricks. First, even though Cosmo is a newly announced project, it is surprisingly mature and complete while being lightweight. Now, cosmo on Wayland is a set of C++ libraries that allows developers to build rich, easy to code native linux apps with the, as I mentioned, bios api that's beos. For those of y'all that are listening only and not able to wanting to make sure it's you're hearing right now. It comes with supporting infrastructure and tools plus style guides. According to Liam, developers can build multi-threaded Linux apps in C++ that natively target Wayland, so I think this may be a good way to support the applications coming out in Wayland. Now, although Cosmo on Wayland is new, it has well-established guidelines and a distinctive, fresh and clean look and feel.

32:25
This iteration of Cosmo is an implementation of a project to recreate BOS on top of the Linux kernel, and it's now called Cosmo Classic. Now, cosmo Classic started out as a port of the user land of. I'm going to spell this out first and then say a way. I think it sounds A-T-H-E-O-S or AtheOS to the Linux kernel Athos. Yeah, one of those two. Over time, the original Cosmo evolved into an effort to implement a BOS-compatible operating system on top of a Linux kernel. Liam gives a brief history of the project in his article, including a link to developer Bill Hayden's home for Cosmo. Now I'm going to ask could this be a contender in the field of the free and open source software user interface toolkits, going up against opposition from QT or GTK? To answer that, you may want to read Liam's article for more details before making up your mind.

33:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Probably not, but it is definitely interesting to see it. Sometimes, though, some big company will find something like this and go oh, it's from the ground up and it has the right license, doesn't have any of the tech debt that we're trying to get rid of. Let's go get it and run with it, and that's how you have things like Chromium based on the KDE browser, and other crazy things that have happened.

34:15 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'm going to say Athos. That's what I'm going to say.

34:18 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I was thinking Athos A's what.

34:20 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'm going to say Athos. I was thinking.

34:23 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Atheos, atheos, atheos.

34:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
A-T-H-E-O-S. Atheos.

34:28 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Atheo operating system.

34:30 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, Athe Atheos.

34:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Atheos yeah, that works too, however, you want to say it, man the thing, the thing with the letters? Yeah, that works too. However, you want to say it, man the thing. The thing with the letters? Yeah, no, it's always fun to see stuff like this people doing it just for kind of the throwback, and it's really interesting to see a new project spin up to be able to do Wayland stuff. Like I said, you might see somebody pick this up and actually do something really interesting with it. It's so hard to tell.

35:01 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Especially if you do download and play with it.

35:03 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It comes with some example applications. It's always handy, always handy, all right. So let's take a look at canonical. I think that's what's next.

35:14 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Oh, time to bash on them, huh.

35:15 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, actually we're going to. They're doing sort of a victory lap, be honest with you. So this is something that Michael Larable at Pharonix found, and this is the annual report for Canonical. It's for the year 2024. So you know, we're getting close to we are halfway through 2025 already oh, my goodness, Almost through.

35:41 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
What is their calendar year, though?

35:43 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
um, well, so it says that it's the annual report for the year end 31st of december 2024. So apparently canonical has a business year that coincides with the calendar year, which I don't understand why a company would not want to do that. I'm sure there's legitimate business reasons. Anyway, they have their revenue and their margin percentages and their head counts on here and it's really interesting. So in 2023, canonical had a revenue of $251 million. In 2024, they had a revenue of $292 million. They're doing well. Their cash flow before taxes in 2024 was $85 million. They did well. They made bank. They did really well. They have 1,175 employees. That is their average headcount for the year, which is up from 2023.

36:48
It's good news for Canonical. Yeah, it looks like their operating profits, if these are in millions, was $15.5 million, so they did very well for their shareholders. I mean it's not huge, right? It's not Apple money or ExxonMobil money, but for a purely open source group, or mostly open source, a Linux group like Canonical is, yeah, it's really good.

37:15
Michael has a thought in here about it's been a while since he's heard any talks of Canonical going for an IPO. They talked about that back in 2022, but it came and passed and there wasn't one initial public offering, but their numbers look really good and so if they were to spin out into an IPO, it would be successful. Ipos are really good for making the founders lots and lots of money. It's not necessarily a great thing for most businesses, but definitely makes some people very wealthy. Anyway, we will see if that happens. But you know we do occasionally like to bash on canonical. But I will say good on them. Good on them for making some money and giving people a really good Linux distro, one of the most popular Linux distros, for sure. I don't know if I'd say it's the best, but it is one of the Linux distros?

38:11 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
definitely. If the founders are making profiting $15 million a year, sure they can make more money with an IPO, but do they really need it?

38:21 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Not this particular founder.

38:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I mean, how big of a yacht do you want?

38:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I guess some of them are pretty expensive. I assume. I've never looked into it, so I think the moral that you're saying here is, if you're looking to donate to an open source project, canonical doesn't need your money. Give it to somebody else, they'll accept it. Canonical doesn't need your money. Give it to somebody else.

38:40 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
They'll accept it, but they don't need it.

38:43 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, you know there are places out there that are really in need of operating funds. I'm not going to tell anybody to not give to Canonical, but yeah, they're doing all right, they're making some money.

38:56 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And they are for profit, aren't they?

38:58 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yes, they're just a business.

39:00 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yep, yes, one that's helping to keep Mark Shuttleworth. Did I say that right?

39:07 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
You did, for what?

39:09 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
As wealthy as he was before he started it.

39:12 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I mean, hey, they actually made money. That's a good step towards not losing money.

39:20 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Unless that's what you intended to do, because you needed a tax write-off.

39:24 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah.

39:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
That was the purpose he got into it. He thought I need some tax write-offs and it backfired Horrible. I need to find a way to make that kind of money.

39:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, not there yet either.

39:35 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Legally.

39:40 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Ideally yeah. Yeah, all there, yet either.

39:41 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Legally, ideally, yeah. All right, rob, let's talk about the drama now.

39:50 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
All right, there is some Definitely drama. We talked I think it was just last week about the Bcash FS drama, how Linus scolded them for trying to add features of feature updates at the release candidate stage of the Linux Chrome, the stage in which updates are supposed to be completely only bug fixes, no new features. So BcacheFS. They had a lot to say in response but I'm not going to go into that this week because there's a, you know, check out last week's or if you want, but there's, there's plenty of new stuff to talk about. Um, you know, this week I'm only here to update you that. Um, on what's new, you know they. So the linux 6.16-rc3 was released and you know, notably, there was initially there was going to be some things missing, but uh, on june 26, so as of today, a couple of days ago, linus wrote I have pulled this, but also per that discussion, I think we'll be parting ways in this 6.17 merge window. You made it very clear that I can't even question any bug fixes and I should just pull anything and everything. Honestly, at that point I don't really feel comfortable being involved at all and the only thing we both seem to really fundamentally agree on is that decision was or on that discussion, was we're done? On that discussion was we're done. That's pretty strong words.

41:40
But Ken's reply from the B cash FS team. He says, linus, I'm not trying to say you can't have any say in B cash FS, not at all. I positively enjoy working with you when you're not being a D with a male body part, but you can be genuinely impossible sometimes. A lot of times when BcashFS was getting merged, I got comments from other file system maintainers that were pretty much great. We finally have a file system maintainer who could stand up to Linus and my word, stand up to that bully and continue on with his quote. And having been on the receiving end of a lot of ending from them about what was going on and more that I won't get into, I don't want to be in that position. I'm just not going to have any sense of humor where user data integrity is concerned or making sure users have the bug fixes they need. Well then, just put the bug fixes they need, not features.

42:55
Anyway, back to his quote. Like I said, all I've been waiting for is for you to tone it down and stop holding pull requests over my head as the place to have that discussion. You have generally good ideas and you are bloody sharp. It is fun getting uh stuff done with you when uh you're not uh battling, when we're not battling. But you have to understand the constraints people are under, not just myself. So there's, that's, that's really the full thing from uh, from from the log, and I don't know, I don't know where this is going to go. You know, will this uh conflict be resolved or will they be parting ways?

43:48 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
yeah. So what does parting ways mean? What does that look like?

43:53 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
um, you're out of the kernel and you can do DKMS.

43:59 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I don't know. Yeah, that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like Torvalds is planning to pull BcashFS out of the kernel for 6.17. Interesting times, interesting times.

44:14 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the cadence. I know we've talked about it. How soon can we expect to see this? I mean, you're more which are which rc?

44:25 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
do we just, uh, rc3? Yes, so somewhere between three and six more rcs, you know, somewhere in in there. Depending upon how long it takes for things to settle down, then they, they will.

44:35 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I mean that'll be the summer then.

44:38 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, yeah. So three to six weeks, basically the end of the summer.

44:44 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, I should say this summer for us in the Northern Hemisphere. I know we have some listeners in the Southern Hemisphere which is winter now, I guess. Well, not even yet, is it? What day is it today? Never mind.

44:59 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It is summer here and winter there, yep yeah. So three to six weeks somewhere around there, we'll see. Uh, we'll see the rcn get a full release and then the merge window will open.

45:05 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
We'll see how lenis fills then I'm definitely curious to see what happens here I wonder if this article by michael has anything to say about it.

45:18 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Which one is that?

45:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
The one I just put in the club twit Hmm.

45:24 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
The one week later merge. Yeah, this is the article that talks about the mailing list message.

45:30 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, I didn't see that article yet, but it's exactly. He's just writing it up from the mailing list messages I found.

45:39 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, so I mean the whole thing was, it was questionable whether what Kent sent in was a bug fix or if it was a new feature. Because what they did is they found a scenario where data could be lost, but to fix it they sort of had to invent a new feature to catch it and fix it right. So it was this, it was this bit of code that really walked the line between the two and you know, I don't know why he didn't like specifically.

46:08 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
You know, kent, why? Why didn't you specifically say that, like it looks like a if that's case, like I haven't dug into that. You know why not. Why not Can't say Linus, this is, I understand, this is a gray area, but what I put in there is fixing a bug. I mean say that specifically if that's the case, instead of halfway walking around it.

46:40 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think from a certain perspective it was obviously a new feature, but from another perspective it was obviously there to prevent data corruption, and so that's where the difference of opinion came from. Yeah, anyway, let's. So. It's one of those where it was both Sure, both and.

47:01 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, I guess, was it out of corruption a bug? That's probably the real question.

47:09 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah.

47:09 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Nope, that's just how it was designed.

47:13 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, ken. Is there a new Pipewire release? Is that what I see?

47:17 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, all right, ken. Is there a new Pipewire release? Is that what I see? Yes, just yesterday, in fact, Marius Nestor wrote about the Pipewire project, releasing Pipewire 1.4.6. Now this latest maintenance update is here to fix bugs that could crash the filter chain and ALSA plugin. Here to fix bugs that could crash the filter chain and ALSA plug-in. Fix a ref count issue in the device provider. Improve latency reporting in the module combined stream and improve save activation deactivation of the filter graph in module filter chain to avoid crashes. It also enables interrupts after an ALSA error to keep the data flow going. Adds an option to disable remote audio output protocol, or what's commonly referred to as RAOP, with a contextproperty. Add support for the alsause-ucm property for the alsaudev plugin. Improve some code paths in the Pulse server mixer and improves resetting of some stats after an alsa error. Mario's article also reviews some of the other features provided by the 1.4 series of Pipewire that we have mentioned in some of the previous episodes. As always, I recommend reading the article just to see what I skipped over.

48:54 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, interesting stuff. Yeah, interesting stuff. Um, I I'm, I'm desperately considering installing fedora 43 to this laptop and getting all that new pipeware goodness, just to get up to 1.4.5. Yeah, well, that and a whole bunch of other things. I'm on pop os on this machine and it's beginning to feel a little creaky. So I don't know. We may, we may uh temporarily abandon the, uh, the the pop os experiment on this until maybe it's time to uh test run uh how long did we ask you to do it for?

49:33
less time than I've done it. I don't remember, maybe a year, was it a. It's been way over a year at this point, six months, I don't remember Two years.

49:42 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah, I think it was only six months.

49:43 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I think it was six months, yeah, yeah, so maybe soon. Maybe soon Might wait until we get the new laptop and set them both up at the same time, I don't know. Know you pass, so yeah, I pass, and by then pop os will come out with 2404, maybe. Yeah, I think their next release is going to be cosmic powered, and so they're waiting for cosmic to get to, you know, beta or stable. Yeah, all right.

50:08
Well, there is a release with some fun stuff that I want to cover real quick, and that is the latest blender version. We have blender 5, blender 5.0. And it has well, it has some really interesting things in it. One of the big ones, though, is support for HDR. On Wayland Not on X11, but on Wayland you can run Blender with HDR support. It is an alpha right now, and so not a full release yet, but you can go get the alpha and try it out. You want to make sure you're using the Vulkan backend and then go into developer extras under preference and interface, and then you can enable the Vulkan HDR supports under preferences.

50:52
Experimental it's experimental. Are you getting the impression that this is sort of an experimental alpha thing that is not quite ready for primetime, but they've got it and so now you can, in a scene, configure it to use HDR and display it with high dynamic range. Really cool thing to see come along in yet another program. And one of the last things that they mentioned here is that the feedback from this will be used to decide if they're going to move the feature out of experimental and if it's going to be a full-on part of the 5.0 release. So any of you that are Blender users, if you're on a modern Linux system meaning it's running Wayland go give it a try, pull the alpha and go flip the things on and see how well it works.

51:50
So the top comment on this thread is are there any plans for Windows support? And the official response is no official plans yet. Linux Wayland support was easy as it fitted into what we'd already laid out. We did test on Windows, but it had limitations and required more work than expected. Any developer could pick it up. Patch is welcome. Wow, that's great. So yeah, if you want to work in HDR and Blender, time to come to Linux.

52:20 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And bring an HDR monitor with you.

52:24 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I think the theme of this show is how Linux is better.

52:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, 2025 is the year of the Linux desktop.

52:34 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
There we go Gaming desktop at least.

52:42 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, at least, oh least, oh goodness, uh, all right. Well, speaking of linux, there's a, uh, there's a fun little thing in the kernel, rob. Is this what? What is this, rob? Oh, we are not a command line tip well, uh, it's not a command line tip.

52:56 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, it's not a command line tip, it's just a fun little tip on seeing things in the kernel. I'm guessing you've already maybe took a peek at this. I'm going to share my screen and there's a little URL. So for those not watching, you want to know what I'm looking at. It is a VidarHolennet slash, content slash, word count. So it's V-I-D-A-R-H-O-L-E-N and hopefully you got the rest. Otherwise, just find the show notes for the link. So what this is is you can see a various word count over time On the screen.

53:43
I have the file system's word count which by default. They have Butterfest, xfs, ntfs, axe4, um-dos, and looking at this graph you know what. The NTFS file system had a big peak where it was in a lot, of, a lot of the parts of the kernel commits, whereas in the end here more recently, xfs is top one. They have UMS DOS which which you know has a tiny little well, it was, it was number one, I guess at the very beginning, uh, and then dropped out of nothing. But you can change. You know, let's do a zfs or zfs um and see if that where does that do? And you can also remove stuff like that. So there's zfs in there, uh, huh, nothing recent. It was in there from like 3.11 to 4.18 release candidate, but there's also other defaults like star nicks, hacks, garbage, so they have various forms of the word garbage trash, garbage, rubbish, junk and on. Yeah, the word garbage just grows and grows and grows and yeah, those are kind of down there. Uh, 64-bit booleans, love hate. You know, love hate. Meh, often those are in there.

55:16 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Love is in there a lot and people.

55:21 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Torvalds, whatever you can put your own name in there and find out where you talk about, where it's in there. I'm surprised to see my last name has been mentioned a few times over the years. Probably not me, because I haven't done anything. Companies yeah, red Hat, oracle, google, right at the end there. What Apple? Oh yeah, I suppose that's with Asahi. Asahi Probably really brought that up to the top, and there's even a tab for swearing. I'm not going to click on that, but it's still fun to see how much swearing is in the kernel commits.

56:03
So it's just a fun little thing to kind of see these things Looks like it was somebody's personal project. If you go to VidarHolennet like I said, holen before, but Holen, holen, not Holen Anyway, if you go there, it's got some other projects too. I haven't looked at any of them, but maybe there's some other fun things to look at for this person's uh, personal pet projects or whatever they're oh, that's cool, cool yeah, I like it.

56:36 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I All right, ken, I think you've got an entertainer. Slash teacher. Yes, I do Right.

56:44 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And this week I am going to be going over how to sit or get permissions for the clients that you have in Pipewire. The clients that you have in Pipewire, permissions that we're talking about are going to be for being able to read, to read from write, to execute, change metadata or, in some cases, create a link. Now the basic command for getting a client's permission. Let me go ahead and bring up my screen here. There we go, and just so I'm not having to try to type it in and y'all wait forever. For me it's going to be uh, get permission, followed by the client ID. So what I want to do first is find us some links that we can work with, because they will help us with getting the information for clients. I need to have links up, so let me pull up real quick.

58:01
Rob got me playing around with that and y'all may remember this episode of the Apple WWDC Thought I'd play that back. It's already muted, which helps, and now that I've got that playing back there, you go Up here. I've got my QPW graph interface showing. There's that. So, as you can see down here, I've got two links for the front left and front right, and they give me the output ports and nodes. But they also give me the client ID, which in this case is 33, which just happens to be what it was the last time I was playing with it.

58:52
So we're going to get the permissions for that. We're going to get the permissions for that and the permissions the information that comes back with when you type in pw-cli get-permissions 33 comes back, providing a remote of 0, which is the pipe wire daemon, the node for the client, which is in this case 33, with an index of 0. And the default permissions are RWXM for read, write, execute and metadata. Now you can also change permissions and in this case what I am going to do is the link ID 83 is what I am going to change to just no permissions at all. Let's try node 50. And it's not doing it today.

01:00:21 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Live demos.

01:00:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
You got to love them, yeah, but you see it's hanging. They're trying to do something.

01:00:28 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, that's probably because you've got live data going across that pipe.

01:00:36 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Well, I was doing that the other day. No system.

01:00:41 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So that should that disconnect them when you change.

01:00:44 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It should disconnect that link.

01:00:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, hmm.

01:00:50 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
So let's try Now. You can put an R and it's not doing it either.

01:01:06 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I suspect that something is very unhappy. Yeah, I want to try something else here.

01:01:14 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Live debugging, and there it did set the permissions, so we're going to change that to that now. It took me a while actually to get it to do anything, and I love the way that bounces around. Yeah, go back to the command line and see what. Look at the links again. Links have disconnected when.

01:02:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I paused it. Oh, you're getting the spinny circle now.

01:02:17 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
On Chrome, I've seen this.

01:02:21 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yes, I had problems with that as well. That is what happens when chrome cannot get an audio output. It just doesn't know what to do. It's like I've got, I've got, uh, I've got bits to shovel and I can't shovel them anywhere. I yes, I'm familiar with that also from playing around with pipe wire, so we'll close that, that from playing around with Pipewire.

01:02:39 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
We'll close that and that and we'll go back to VLC, something more trustworthy.

01:02:49 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
We'll see what it does. I think it's going to fail to open.

01:02:58 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Possibly this shouldn't have any effect, but let's see if it does.

01:03:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So did you set your permissions on your main? There it came up. I was going to say did you remove all the permissions for the main output? So now nothing can talk to it. You remove all the permissions for the main output, and so now nothing can talk to it.

01:03:21 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
If I did, I know how to get it back. There we go and let's just find the command. Got a whole bunch of notes.

01:03:33 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Here it's going to say it's in the note somewhere.

01:03:35 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I've also got it in my show notes. Oh, there you go. What I'm wondering is why it keeps hanging like that, like it's trying to do something.

01:03:49 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That dash dash user is interesting with systemctl. Pyquery is one of the few things that runs as a user service.

01:03:55 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I even just to see what that would happen tried doing this with a pseudo command. It couldn't find the remote. Yeah, or it couldn't find the pipe wire system.

01:04:08 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Because it's still it's user only. Yep, that's because it's doing the same thing as Wayland is. It's not running as a system wide, it's just running connected to your user logged in. I suspect that for things to start working, you're going to have to restart Pipewire.

01:04:26 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Which I just did. Oh did you.

01:04:30 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
No, you listed.

01:04:32 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Okay.

01:04:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That's why I didn't fix anything. So it's systemctl dash dash user, restart pipewire.

01:04:44 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I thought I had that in one of my notes somewhere.

01:04:48 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I would do it on my machine, but I'm not running in a VM, so it would not be good.

01:04:54 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
So I can go back up to here.

01:04:58 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I think it's restart, and then the name I can never remember, because system CTL does it one way and the old service command did it the other way. Yeah, there you go. Your video started playing Like magic. Yep, wow, that's fun. You had pipeware real confused.

01:05:17 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, I did so that's what the you had pipe wire real confused. Yes, I did so. That's what the permissions can allow you to do Really confuse pipe wire if you throw it something that it's not familiar with.

01:05:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I believe it. I believe it. I've got a command line tip that I'd like to talk about real quick, and that's something that happened this month to a certain group of our users, of our audience. Maybe if you are in the I run arch, by the way, camp, then you may be familiar with this already. Or if you're about to do an update and you haven't done it for a while you're about to hit this, so we're going to let you know.

01:05:54
It is that Linux-firmware, the Linux firmware package. If you're going past the 2025-06-13 upgrade, there is a manual intervention that you have to do, and this is sort of a perfect storm. It's one of those accidental breakages where two different things happened at once and together it's real bad. Well, I say real bad. I don't think it bricks machines, I think it just doesn't work. Um, what arch did is they split the firmware into several vendor focused packages, and linux dash firmware itself is now an empty package, and this is because there got to be. There's so much firmware now that gets shipped with the kernel. They didn't want a single package, that was just huge, and so they've split it out into multiple packages. Well, they say, unfortunately, this coincided with the upstream reorganization, reorganizing the Simulink's layout of the NVIDIA firmware, resulting in a situation that Pac-Man cannot handle.

01:07:00
When attempting to upgrade from 2025.05.08 or earlier, you see the following errors and it's that Linux firmware NVIDIA already exists in file system. So basically it's complaining that it's getting the same file from two different packages. To progress with the system upgrade, first remove linux firmware and then reinstall it as part of the upgrade, and so they even have the commands here. It's a pacman dash, capital rdd linux firmware and then pacman capital s y u, capital s y u linux firmware, I believe, brings it back um, the first one to delete it, the second one to bring it back to update it. I don't know, I don't run Arch, I don't know what Pac-Man does, but anyway we've got the link in the show notes and so if you've had trouble trying to update in Arch and you were not aware of this, that is what's going on, and now you know. So it's nice to know that some of the other. Rob is muted, he's over there, pac-man is like DNF Pac-Man is a DNF to you.

01:08:02
I know what it is. Yes, rob, thank you. I just I don't use it.

01:08:08 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
You should, I should, maybe one of these days I will join the arch club, but I did find a way to use grep with the pipe wire information so that you can display up to 15 lines before and or after the item you're looking for.

01:08:35 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That is a super useful thing that grep can do. Uh, give you context, context lines. I have to talk about that in a command line tip at some point. Exactly how to do that Sounds like a good one for one of us to handle next week. All right, Uh, that is that is it. That is the end of the show. We've covered the news. We've covered the tips. I'm going to let each of the guys plug whatever they want to plug is trying to fix his camera with some success, uh, but we're gonna let him cut away to his website and plug.

01:09:06 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'm guessing robert p campbell you got it all done for me. I don't my.

01:09:11
My work here is done so you can run off into the sunset so, for those who want more me, come find my web presence at robertpcampbellcom and from there you can find links to my LinkedIn, twitter, blue Sky, mastodon and a place to donate a coffee to me. And, that being said, I forgot to mention it, but someone did donate me a coffee a few weeks ago. Uh, I it was, it was anonymous, I don't have a name, so thank you. Someone, uh, and and they with donating that coffee to me. They, they said thank you for the update, um or not. They said update Kuma, but they meant uptime Kuma, one of my tips I had a few weeks ago. So you are welcome and I hope I can bring more. I hope I can be useful to more people.

01:10:14 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Fun. All right, ken, you have anything you want to plug?

01:10:21 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
fun. All right, uh, ken, you have anything you want to plug? Just uh, remind, remind everybody back up, back up and make sure you're able to ssh into your system. For those of y'all on discord, you may have saw where I posted earlier that I finally got the uh, the tumbleweed boot on my system working again by ssh into it after just letting it go through its. So I knew it was at least booted up. And when I sH in I got the DOS prompt and I was able to just use top grade to go through and do an upgrade from the terminal and then I said install updates.

01:11:09 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Install updates fixed it.

01:11:11 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It was an update to cause the problem and update the fixed.

01:11:17 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, fun stuff. All right, Appreciate you guys being here. Covered a lot of good stuff this week. If you want to find more of me, most of it is over at Hackaday. That's where Floss Weekly is at and that's also where my security column goes live every Friday morning, If you care to check that out. Sure appreciate you doing so and we appreciate those of you that get us here. On Twit, you should think about Club Twit if you're not part of it. It's a price of one or two cups of coffee, depending upon where you go to buy your coffee Per month. Definitely worth it. It gets you access to the shows ad-free and it's a way to say way to support the shows and the people that you care about. We appreciate that. We appreciate everybody that watches and listens, those that get you live and on the download, and we will be back. We'll see you next week on the Untitled Linux Show.