Untitled Linux Show 205 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
This week. We're talking about Ubuntu and why you probably should go ahead and update off of 24.04. There's H.264 troubles on Fedora. Obs releases the 31.1 beta. Didn't we just get 31.0? There's a 6.15 release of the kernel, the 6.16 merge window is open, and a whole lot more. You don't want to miss it, so stay tuned.

00:23 - Leo (Announcement)
Podcasts you love From people you trust. Podcasts you love From people you trust. This is Twit.

00:32 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
This is the Untitled Linux Show, episode 205, recorded Saturday, may 31st. Rel Spicy Edition. Hey folks, it is Saturday and you, of course knows what that means. It is time for the Untitled Linux Show. We're gonna get geeky with open source and Linux and some hardware, all sorts of stuff. I've got a part of the normal crew here today, we've got Ken and we've got Rob and we're gonna get up to some fun and Rob has a story about his second favorite operating system and we're gonna let him take it away and tell us about that.

01:07 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I mean, I guess, in all honesty, I do run it on my servers all the time. So as much as I like to dig on Ubuntu, you're probably not completely inaccurate on saying it's my second favorite. But you know all the commenting on on how you know my digs have usually been on how not up to date they are, which is good for my servers. But you know I like to be up to date on I like.

01:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I like the latest and greatest on my desktop bleeding on the desktop, old and boring on the servers that's kind of how I like to roll.

01:45 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
But uh, you know they have their lts release. You know their long-term support that is released every two years. Uh, you know, with with the majority of kind of the real world testing being done on their, on their, for those adventurous types, on their six month interim releases, um, but you know, I mean it's not just testing but it's kind of testing. That's kind of where a lot of the testing goes. But uh, before they do their long-term release, but you know, really only testing on a new system every six months kind of leaves a lot of development in between. That you know could be tested on that. That isn't much. You know they don't have an official testing rolling release. You know they got rhino. I mean, they don't have rhino but someone has they spun it up. Uh, if you want a rolling release, so you know, if you want to test the up-to-minute, latest and greatest releases, you can install. They have a daily ISO. But for most, downloading and installing an ISO every day is probably a little extreme. Unless you're developing for Ubuntu, then if that's part of your job, then maybe you want to do that. But for others we have the six months, we have the daily. But what's in between? There hasn't been anything really in between there until now.

03:11
So Canonical is planning to release a monthly Ubuntu snapshot for testing and building out automation. So they're not going to go away from the six-month in terms and the two-year LTS cadences, but complementing their testing by leveraging more automation and enhancing testing. So a quote from their announcement it says with their current model, failure modes are not detected until they're urgent and blocking an imminent release. The team conducts rigorous retrospectives on each release. But in my opinion it's hard to meaningfully evolve such a process when it's only exercised every six months. So and then it goes on. The monthly snapshots will create opportunities for us to test, understand and improve that process. So the monthlies are kind of going to be deployed and use their same automation that their six-month interns do.

04:13
I believe their dailies, nightlies, whatever you call them, are not quite as on par with that. So the process it has already started with the following releases the following released and planned for Ubuntu 25.10 on the following dates so May 29th, snapshot 1 is already out, then the next one, snapshot 2, is on June 10th, snapshot 3 is on June 15th, snapshot 4 is on August 19th and I guess October they expect UbBIN 225.10 to be out. So maybe this is an attempt to catch some of those blocking failures that have caused some releases to be delayed in the past. Though, you know, I know we've seen somewhere it gets released and then they hold back updating or upgrading or whatever, or the release just has come on time. So you know, like I said, I'm not quite sure how the nightlies you know, maybe they I don't know the nightlies aren't accomplishing that and I catch it because it's, you know, it's just too frequent, I suppose, to do the vigorous testing automation that they do with the actual release.

05:26
So this is going to, you know, hopefully improve that process for them. Personally, I'd still kind of like to see an official testing Roli release so I could actually see the software as it goes. But yeah, like I said, I already use Ubuntu on my desktop anyway.

05:43 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, so this is. There's a couple of ways that they could do this. I want to make sure I understand. So when Ubuntu mints a release so 25.04 got minted that's a fork right. They fork Ubuntu and you've got the old stable becomes 25.04, and then updates to that, and then they fork it off and you've got now a bleeding edge that's going to become 2510. These builds are coming out of that bleeding edge fork right.

06:10 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yes, yes, these are what's going to become 2510.

06:14 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So they're pre-releases of the next version, essentially.

06:17 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yep or RC releases.

06:21 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I'm sure they have releases. These are not release candidates, definitely not release candidates yeah, way before that.

06:29 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Think of the nightly builds.

06:32 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It's basically a nightly build.

06:34 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It's nightly released once a month.

06:37 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, well, it's basically the nightly build, but utilizing the same automation that they use to release their interim build. So that way they get to test their automation, their build automation tools.

06:50 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah.

06:52 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Interesting.

06:53 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh, so it looks like they are based on what he says here. They are actually going to give it some testing like they test a release. He's talking about it being a. It's a practice run for the big six month release, yep, so maybe they will be a little bit more stable than an actual nightly build. Regardless, is interesting A step towards having an official Ubuntu rolling release maybe.

07:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
For those that want to risk it.

07:27 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I mean you could roll with it if you want to. I'm sure there's a way to tell go into your ubuntu install and tell it to jump to that bleeding edge fork every time.

07:34 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
But I'm a little curious how the process would work. You know if you did the nightly or daily, I guess they call it but uh, updating day after day, if, if, if you update your system every day, if you're basically keeping up with every daily iso and and also along with the monthly, you know, if, if you install snapshot one and all of a sudden you keep updating, updating and then snapshot two comes out, are you up to date with that does? Is there a process that I think? I think so yeah, yeah, the.

08:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
The real question is when they actually get to, when they fork a release. So when they fork the, if you do that right now and then they fork 2510, which branch are you going to take on that fork? That's the one I'm not sure about. What I am sure about is, if you're running Ubuntu 20.04, you've got a problem on your hands and Ken, I think, has the full scoop, as well as, hopefully, some options to give to people. What can we do, ken?

08:34 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
For those of y'all that are on Ubuntu 20.04, you may want to say goodbye to a dear friend. You may want to say goodbye to a dear friend Now. I'm actually still running Ubuntu Studio 20.04 based on Ubuntu 20.04. But we hear from Bobby Barsol and Sourav Rudra. They both wrote about Canonical no longer accepting package updates to the primary archive for Ubuntu 20.04 after this last Thursday. So this does signal the end of standard security updates and bug fixes of this version. Now, according to Bobby, ubuntu 20.04 was originally or initially released on March 23rd 2020. So it's had a good five years run and it did receive a standard support for that full five years. Now, as I said, milanova ThinkCenter A63 can still receive system security updates under my Ubuntu Pro subscription that I have In fact, let me go ahead and show you what it's currently showing. That's me SSHing into the system and running NeoFetch and you can see it's Ubuntu 20.04.6 LTS. This has actually been up for two hours because I tried updating to 22.04 and ended up having to roll back using my backup. So, whatever you decide to do after this hearing about some options, I do recommend first backing up everything Now. This gives with the Ubuntu Pro subscription. It gives me access to security updates for both the main and user-first repositories, kernel live patching and compliance tools. I could keep using Ubuntu 20.04 for another 10 years this way.

10:47
But Suhr gives you, in addition to the Ubuntu Pro subscription, two other options. His first recommendation and I'm sure Jeff would agree with this is to do a fresh install of Ubuntu 24.04 LTS so you can get all the latest packages. Personally, I don't want to rebuild my Plex Media Server by doing that, because that means having to rebuild it from scratch again, especially since I've got several shows that I DVR from over-the-air broadcast using my Plex media server that I'd have to try to reschedule again, and some of them are in between seasons. So that makes it a little difficult, a little bit. So our second recommendation is to upgrade to Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, since this will keep, in my case, my files intact.

11:51
In fact, I even tried that last weekend after last week's podcast also talks you through the upgrade process, while Bobby has links to guides for upgrading from 20.04 LTS to 22.04 LTS and then to 24.04 LTS. That sounds like a long session doing all of that. As always again, I can't say it more often always back up before starting either of these last two options. Now, even though I have Ubuntu Pro's extended security maintenance 4.20.04, I am going to try to upgrade again to 4.20.04. Upgrade again to 2204 and then see if I can reinstall XFCE, because the upgrade switched me to Gnome's desktop.

12:55 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh terrible, Lucky you. Oh yes, Just ruins the whole experience.

13:04 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Especially with all the customizations I've done to my current XFCE desktop, so I can quickly go up to my panel and start certain applications from there.

13:16 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, KDE must have still been installed. You just had to switch your session over, right.

13:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
No, it's XFCE on that one.

13:22 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Oh, XFCE. Yeah, they're trying to get you off the old, almost unsupported software, Yep, but yeah, it must have still been installed anyway. I assume you just had to switch your session and you would have been there. My, I'm kind of I like to.

13:41 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
When I did upgrade, I was still able to launch gPotter from the command line, as well as verify that my Plex server was still up and running. So I can do that. Have to take the time to set up new quick links for everything that I like to have access to from the desktop, even though, for all intents and purposes, I'm actually just using it as a file and media server now.

14:20 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
These days I don't have any problems upgrading from one LTS to the next. Back in the day I've had some PHP, did some major breaking things where I got stuck on. I had a server that was stuck on an old version for a while until I could get around to reprogramming those sites.

14:41 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
But going back to that SSH, I do want to show if y'all can read it there it does say system restart required because a new release, 22.04 LTS, is available. It says run do release upgrade to upgrade to it. I don't think I want to do that right now.

15:03 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
But yeah, with my web servers I just like to uh set up a new one and and uh install fresh, because then I get I get all the cruft off of there that uh has accumulated over the couple of years. So I always like to get a nice fresh start. But as far as even back and up goes, when I just do a regular apt update at apt upgrade I always do a snapshot before every one of those. Even though I have regular weekly backups on my web servers, I still like to do that right before, just in case I so I don't lose like half a week or whatever of whatever is on there yep, all right.

15:48 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So what about? What about linux itself, the kernel? There's some interesting things going on there and I am going to talk first off about the scheduler, one of of those fun, geeky things to talk about. You may have seen this article about the uniprocessor scheduler, and the link here off to Foronix says specifically the big Linux patch series shakes up the scheduler code for anyone with only one CPU core and my first thought was, oh, they're going to make it better for single core, because of course these things are still around. No, actually it's quite the opposite. Even in embedded systems and all kinds of places, you very rarely see single CPU, single core processors. That is almost everything is SMP, simultaneous multiprocessing, and so Linux is. The Linux devs are finally moving into this bright new future and going in and killing the scheduler code that specifically deals with the single core. Now, these old devices will still work, I mean, like you can still run 586 with Linux and the kernel will work on the CPU. I think it's 586. I think that's where we're at. They killed 486, but 586 is still in there, I think.

17:15
But what this does is it gets rid of all of the code specific to the single core and just lets it run on the SMP scheduler. Now, the reason that this matters is because every time somebody went to touch the scheduler, there was this like massive if def tree. There was if def spam everywhere regarding you know, if def, config, smp, and so they're, they're going in and it sounds like they're trying to, uh, eventually only compile for config SMP. That's kind of the direction, that reading between the lines here. That's kind of the direction it seems like this is going. I don't think they're entirely there. This is just doing it for the scheduler, but it's interesting to see sort of things in the kernel moving this direction. Do either of you guys have any single core processor machines around anywhere?

18:18 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I'm going to say yes, I think that Dell I've got. It's got a 486 in it, but is it running?

18:25 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
How long ago Are you?

18:27 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
running systems no.

18:28 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've got some old systems around that are single core, but I don't think I've had one running. I've got one old systems around that are single core, but I don't think I've had one running. I've got one laptop that may be a single core.

18:39 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
It's one of those old netbooks I'd have to go back and look, I don't think I've seen a single core for years. Let's see what happens with the virtual machine, though, if you only give it one core.

18:53 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
When you give a virtual machine only one cord, you go in and recompile your kernel and turn off SMP.

19:00
Of course not. It's the same thing. That's always happened. This is for compiling without SMP turned on. Essentially, this is yeah, so in if def that's a C and C++. In this case it's C not C++. Famously it is a C preprocessor, which means that when you compile your code, the first thing it does, the first pass it does over your code, is it goes through and it evaluates all the preprocessor directives, and so you can have preprocessors that are like if this define exists, or if this define evaluates true, or if this define is equal to this, and so when you do compile options, those actually make it into the code as defines, and so you know you can have a compile option of use SMP, and then every time one of those preprocessor statements matches it'll do the thing, and if it doesn't match you know a lot of times it'll. Just blocks of codes will get erased and be gone before it actually starts the real compilation.

20:05 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, so this is just for compiling of the kernel. Everyone using a pre-compiled kernel with their distribution. It's all the same. It's not saying if you use this, we're going to run this way, if you don't, we're going to run that way. It's just given that option to detect and compile that. Oh, you just have a single core. So, it makes sense, yep.

20:30 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So it's a good thing for the maintainability of the kernel. I don't think he said how many lines were removed as a result, but uh, I'm sure this kicked a bunch of lines out of the kernel, which is always nice. It's always good to get rid of code. It's a good feeling.

20:46 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So it's not even going to optimize anything, running wise, only optimizing compiling and minisculely more for maintainability. It's more for writing new code yeah.

20:59 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It's that much less code you have to wade through for logic errors.

21:05 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yep and to figure out what it's doing to be able to make a patch. All right, Rob has a story here and I've got to ask you, Rob, I thought we just celebrated OBS 31.

21:20 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, now we're going to celebrate what's coming at OBS 31.1.

21:25 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Wasn't this just days ago, though, that OBS 31 came out?

21:28 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's why this is a beta.

21:31 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yes, this is still just a beta at this time.

21:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Okay, I guess it was a month ago.

21:36 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Time flies yeah, I don't know when stuff came out. I mean, I don't, I don't know. Seems like my birthday was yesterday. I don't know if it was last month, last week. I didn't even know what day of the week it was, last week, or I thought it was next year, was. I didn't know what year it was last week. So yeah, so yeah, I mean, like some folks over at you know, like like michael over at phronix, um, you know, even though 31 or I mean yes, 31 just came out, you said some folks like michael over phronix have been looking ahead at what is coming out in the next obs studios release and you know we're talking about 31.1 bay release to to see what's coming.

22:18
And they found and he found some, uh well, pretty good news for linux users. So those uh lucky windows users, their users over there, have been able to enjoy multi-track video recordings, video recording since release 30.2, which I have no idea when that was. But now, uh, in the up and coming 31.1 release, linux users will also be able to enjoy this feature as well, and mac os users too. But whatever, who cares? Um, obs studios multitrack feature allows managing multiple audio and video tracks simultaneously for, like, more advanced streaming kind of professional studio use cases I'm not sure I really have a use case for, but if I really want to get into it I think it could do some pretty cool things with that. So, and you know that that's about really all I came here to talk about, because, um, multi-track uh recording is. Uh, I've definitely done a lot of audio and, you know, maybe I can make some music videos with multi-track recording. I don't know. But you know, as long as I'm here, while I'm talking about what's coming to obs 31.1, I might as well list what else we can expect to see.

23:35
Features such as v4, l2, virtual camera support now coming to non-Linux environments, like our BSD siblings. You know it's not Linux, I know, but you know BSD is like a little sibling to us, or an older sibling, I don't know and they also support for hardware accelerator, browser source handling on linux. So another thing coming to linux and they got some new ui options, a preview zoom zoom controls and I'm not talking about the uh zoom video conferencing application, talking about you zoom in, you know. So you get, you get preview now uh support for color format, space range, gpu conversions, explicit sync, support for pipewire screen capturing. Um, I'm not exactly sure it does, but uh, pipewire screen capturing sounds like we're getting a lot closer to the uh pipeware video stuff that we often bring up that we're looking forward to.

24:39
And then you know, they also have the usual bug fixes that any good software has ever released. There's always bug fixes. There's a good dozen of them. Oh, and, if anyone cares, there's also initial support for Windows OnArm. So those are a few things in this minor release that we can expect to see in the next OBS Studio.

25:04 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, very cool. I look forward to all of it. It's neat to see the new stuff land in OBS.

25:11 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And we're all OBS Studio users on this panel here, and I even use the screen capture pipe wire with my version of OPS, which is 31.0.3. So that's actually been around for an hour. I think it's been a beta, but if you see there it says properties for screen capture pipe wire.

25:37 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, they said explicit sync support, so I wonder if that's something a little it's probably going to help with synchronizing things.

25:47 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
One would think it's kind of right there in the name.

25:51 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I thought it was like where you go on, you know, do your dishes.

26:06 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
What I'm waiting for, though, is when the virtual camera can be recognized by Pipewire. Yes, that is what we are all waiting for. That is kind of the holy grail is Pipewire output from OBS.

26:13 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Then you can split that stream into other devices.

26:16 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I've said multiple times over the years, it will be, that'll be when things really get interesting being able to do your piping, your video around.

26:30 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It'll be good stuff Instead of having to use a third party or a cloud-based service to do it.

26:39 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Indeed, indeed, all right. Well, ken, what about using a distro, specifically Something like Chaos? Is that going to be a good choice for running OBS and doing video streaming?

26:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's a good question. I haven't tried running OBS and doing video streaming. Well, that's a good question. I haven't tried running OBS on it, so I can't answer that one.

27:00
But thankfully Marius Nister and Jack Wallen wrote about an independent Linux distro releasing its latest itineration. That includes kernel 6.14 and KDE's Plasma 6.3.5. What are we talking about? It's Chaos, yes, chaos Linux 2025.05. Now it is built on top of the latest KDE software and features Arch Linux Pac-Man Package Manager.

27:37
Now, starting with this release, chaos is finally where a default install will be Qt5 free. In other words, no more Qt5 is necessary, but if you do have some old applications that still depend on it, you can still download it from the repository. But this does allow KS to include KDE Gear version 25.04.1 or later and Frameworks 6.14.0 or later, because they are both built on Qt 6.9.0 or later, because they are both built on Qt 6.9.0. Qt 6 and Framework 6 ready applications will include Frescobaldi, krita, kamosa and Caligra plan I think I said that last one right Close to it, at least Doubt it GLIB 2.4.1, gstreamer 1.26.1, and Pipewire 1.4.3.

29:01
Now one of the new packages Chaos includes is NextCloud-Client. This is an open source sync client for NextCloud, which I think you've had as a guest on Floss Weekly, haven't you? So if you want more details about Nextcloud, I'd go back and review that episode of Floss Weekly. It's been a while Now. Chaos does get ready to move away from X11 with SDDM 0.20.0. It's going to add the option to run the display manager in Wayland mode. As always, you can get more details, since I'm just picking out the highlights from the two articles I've got linked in the show notes.

29:52 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, interesting, interesting stuff. I I I wonder you know, when we talk about some of these um little, I I think of them as niche boutique distros I don't think this is a boutique necessarily, because it's not even based on any of the uh standard ones well, indeed, that's what I mean. It's not a remix, right? It's not kubuntu. Uh, this is, this is their own thing, and uh I always wonder with these, like are they going to hit critical mass and really take off and be used by a whole bunch of people?

30:28 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
um, when someone else bases their distro on them, then you, they're going somewhere, then they've arrived, they've arrived.

30:38 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
So, rob, when are you going to base a distro on it?

30:45 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I think Rob just jumps from distros to distros. I don't think it's really in his wheelhouse to make his own as much as I used to.

30:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Then I guess the better question is how far down your uh next distro to try list, is it?

30:59 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
uh, as a daily driver way down, um, as uh as maybe a vm like. If I try it there first and there's something intriguing about it, it might go up on my daily driver list. But I got got to see why. Why do I want to run it?

31:18 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Their website looks slick. I will say that for them there's a reason.

31:24 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Because then you can say you've got a distro that none of us have had.

31:31 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I could say when I'm at home, I am running chaos, sure.

31:37 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
You could say that, or you could let your wife say it.

31:44 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh goodness, all right. So if you don't want to run a boutique distro and you want to run something boring, maybe even enterprise, there is an option you can run Alma Linux, and Alma Linux just released version 10, which is based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10. Although it's also based more on CentOS Stream 10. So the whole thing here is a little complicated. When CentOS went away, almalinux was one of the two distros that sort of picked up the torch. And then, when Red Hat made their decision to make it more difficult for downstream distros like AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux, when they made it more difficult for them to repackage the Red Hat packages, alma Linux opted to move to CentOS Stream as the upstream, and so this means that they are no longer bug-for-bug compatible with Red Hat 10, red Hat Enterprise 10, which is potentially good and bad. So you know, the good thing was that you could buy a piece of hardware that was designed for Red Hat, red Hat Enterprise. You know hardware software. You could drop it into your local machine and you could be pretty assured that it was going to behave the exact same way as it would in an actual enterprise Linux install. But one thing that AlmaLinux has done with this change is they'll push out fixes faster. They'll push out security fixes that, for one reason or another, red Hat is not interested in shipping in Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

33:31
Several times we've seen that With AlmaL, alma Linux 10, there is actually another one of these changes. They call it Purple Lion, by the way. There's another one of these changes that they are making away from Red Hat Enterprise and that is that it is going to remain. You can run Alma Linux 10 on an x86-64v2 processor, whereas Red Hat Enterprise Linux requires an x86-64v3. And I really need to go back and look. I've got an old server that I got shut out of running newer CentOS and stuff on. I don't remember if that one is x86-64v2 compatible or if that one's still on v1.

34:21
One of the things that I and others have complained about is that there's not quite the there's not a really really good technical distinction between, like, what makes the version one, two, version three and version four of um x86 64, and so it's kind of nice to see that, uh, alma linux is is bringing some of these old, otherwise really useful pieces of hardware forward into the future. Um, so this is like a amd bulldozer era, amd jaguar, intel's Nehalem and Silvermont. Yeah, but there is some interesting stuff. You've also got UAFI on ARM that you can now run on AlmaLinux 10. And I'll have to try that. I've got some ARM hardware around to give it a shot and see if I can make it work. Let's grab 10 from NXVM.

35:18 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And doesn't AlmaLinux 10 also add Spice?

35:23 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I did see something here about Spice. Spice support is present.

35:28 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Christine Hall's article actually covered that more, but it allows users to access and interact with a virtual machine's desktop environment remotely and not just from the Hope server. But yeah.

35:44 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I don't know the story about Spice being deprecated in RHEL, because that's what I use. It's part of a libvert kvert and I thought that was all based on Spice.

35:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Not so much deprecated, just dropped up in real nine interesting.

36:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I'll have to go look and see what they've replaced it with or did they? I mean you've got to have some way to be able to do an install, and if it's not spice, I'm not sure what it would be. Set up an old serial console into your virtual machines.

36:15 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
But I've added a link to christine hall's article to the show notes as well for anybody that's got the time to read.

36:24 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It covers some of what jonathan touched, as well as some things you didn't actually cover yeah, I'll have to look more into that with RHEL and Spice, because I don't know that story, I don't know what all's going on there.

36:39 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I guess you could say Amalynx 10 is going to be Red Hat Enterprise Linux with Spice.

36:45 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Spice Edition. It's RHEL Spice Edition. Goodness Well, there's some spiciness going on on Fedora with H.264. That's what Rob says. I don't know if I believe him. Are we safe? Is H.264 in the room with you right now, Rob? It probably is. It's probably what we're all streaming with defend.

37:17 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I mean, fedora is a pretty great distribution. But you know, when I find a flaw in the distro, you know I'm going to bring it uh to the show, to revon jonathan's favorite distro. You know fedora tends to keep. You know, one of the things that about fedora is they tend to keep proprietary things off of the distro, like uh H.264 codec. But nine years ago they implemented and this was in 2016, also I know what year it is now it's nine years ago. They implemented an easy way to bring basic H.264 support back to Fedora utilizing Cisco's open source OpenH264 project.

37:57
But over the past few months, fedora and OpenH264 users have been a little stuck with an out-of-date and vulnerable version of OpenH264. Cisco's OpenH264 has a high severity. It's 8.6 out of 10 on the CVE scale vulnerability. Um, this vulnerability uh, well, ranking up there right on the very high severity spot spot uh is causing some frustration and, at least for some of the issues or users online, the uh. The issue is that the decoding functions of the open h.264 codec library could allow a remote, unauthenticated attacker to trigger a heap overflow of the system. The cve was made public in february and fixed by open 60 open h264 version 2.6.

39:03
But, um, you know it. You know it appears that the Cisco repository for Fedora is a little stuck. Fedora builds have solved this issue and they were sent to Cisco two months ago, but it seems Cisco has been a little slow on the uptake. There's been some back and forth. If you go and look in um, you have to follow down the trail, but there's a a link to this, a cve tracker, with the people kind of discussing if they have to rebuild it with a different abi and and all this stuff. But uh, and and they've been they've been having a little bit of trouble getting a response from cisco. And you know, looking at looking at this chain, it looks like they they sent it in, submitted one here, not the backbone. Month later they'd say, oh blah, blah, blah, put your stuff in here and this is how you can submit it, and and a month later nothing.

40:03
And so you know there were some promising updates a few weeks ago but it it seems we're still waiting for Cisco to update their repo. It looks like if they update to I think it's 2.5.1, it would be good. If anyone wants to dig into the CVE, it's CVE 2025-27091. But for our users right now, I they gotta be getting close. It sure seems like when you fall it down, it like they just get real close. Uh, hopefully soon, but last I knew I don't know you know what version you're running. Uh, jonathan, or we still have to wait, I can find out.

40:45 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I can ssh to that machine. You know what you. You know what. The actual problem here is, though, right Like the root cause as to why all this is broken.

40:56 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Communications.

40:57 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Cisco's a big corporation and they don't work well with open source.

41:01 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
There's a more fundamental issue, even than that One word Communications. Nope More fundamental than that actually.

41:11 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
You can't get more fundamental than communications Software patents.

41:17 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Oh, you're talking legalese.

41:20 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That is why OpenH264 is a Cisco thing and why the Fedora people can't just fix it and update it.

41:26 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, yeah, right.

41:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It's because H264 is a patent encoded excuse me, patent encumbered video codec and MPEG-LA. Those wonderful people have a patent portfolio on it and so every time somebody uses it or you know, I probably owe them a few cents just for saying the name of it so many times here on the show you know they have a patent portfolio for it and they charge people for using it. And Cisco actually Cisco are the good guys here At least they were in that they said look, we'll license it, we'll pay for the license, we will ship a binary and people can just pick up this binary and it will go under our accounts and we'll just take care of it, which that's because they wanted um, they were working on a web RTC at the time, I think is what it was and so they wanted everybody to be able to use H.264 and WebRTC, and so they made all of this available and picked up the tab for it for people on Linux and Firefox and all kinds of places to use it.

42:37 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, it's definitely not Fedora's fault or really anything they could do, except for push Cisco to update, which they've been doing from what I've been reading down that thread, push Cisco to update, which they've been doing from what I've been reading down that thread. But the only fault of them well, it's not a fault of them, I guess is just that they're being forced because of their practices to use this one from Cisco, the open one.

43:05 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It also comes down to what our patent law office is allowing to be patented yes, it is because people in the united states don't understand that they are allowing you to patent math and that's not a good idea yeah, especially if you want to say one plus one equals three and patent that, then you're going to have problems later it's, it's.

43:31 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
It's a little different, but yeah, yes, software patents are the patenting of math you know that was the issue, but I believe now I'm not sure when I believe at least in the united states the h.264 patent has expired the, the MP3 patents have expired Pretty sure the H.264s have not.

43:52 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
The total amount of time that you have to wait for a. So there's two things One, the total amount of time you have to wait for patents to expire is like 20 years because of submarine patents and that's where someone invents something and then fails to patent it for like the first seven years and then they can bring that invention up and patent it. And two, h.264 has been added onto multiple times because you have like the base profile and then the main profile and then there's H.264 plus and every time one of those things got added onto it and sort of got glommed onto the standard. Well, that's new code. Therefore it's potentially accessible for new patents. So, like the original H.264 may have, but the last time I looked, there were still Fedora was not willing to compile it themselves for that particular reason?

44:38 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, what I'm seeing is it's open, and here I'm seeing on open.

44:42 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Some expired in 2023. It looks like there's going to be some that expire next year, but there's some others that are going to expire after that.

44:53 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
And Cisco makes the source and binary versions available. The source code is available so that an implementation of H.264 is available for the community to use across, and that's on openh264.org that I'm reading this in their fact section faq yep, all right.

45:14 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, let's see what about um armbian. Is it time for armbian?

45:23 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I think it's time for armbian I hope so, because this week Marius Nestor also wrote about the release of Armbian 25.5. This latest update enhances performance, security and hardware compatibility for a variety of ARM-based single-board computers. Single board computers RBN 25.5 introduces support for new single board computers such as the Banana Pi M2 Plus BeagleBone I'm assuming that's AI-64, or is it AL64? I think it's AI64. Beagleplay, ti's SK-AM69, mediatek Genio family, radza NIO-12L that rolls off the tongue. Qualcomm Robotics RB5, radzasa QBA5E.

46:30
Now here's an interesting title SMART AM40, and then there's Pocket Beagle 2. Now it introduces support for Linux kernel 6.14 on the edge branch of the Rockchip 64 devices, and you can now build clean mainline kernels with configurable kernel patching. Rmbn 25.5 adds the latest UDESH boot and firmware updates to improve boot and peripheral support, improves HDMI and audio support for Rockchip RK3588 devices and improves EFI partition and ButterFS sub-volume support for more flexible system boot and layout. The last thing that I will mention is that Rmbn 25.5 updates the application library to allow users to deploy popular self-hosted applications directly from Rmbn-config, including Home Assistant, sterling, pdf, navidrome, grafana and NetData in clean and isolated environments. As always, go ahead if you want more details and read Marius's article. I've got it linked through the show notes.

48:02 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, so trying to run Linux on these little embedded devices, the SBCs for the vast majority of them is just pain and suffering. It is a terrible experience. One of the reasons the Raspberry Pi is so popular is because the Raspberry Pi engineers intentionally made it not a terrible, painful experience. That is one of the main things it has going for it.

48:24 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Now just to be clear, it's not just running Linux, it's really running anything on them, that's.

48:30 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, on most of these devices that is the only game in town you cannot run anything else. Like BSD will not run on a bunch of these. Windows will definitely not run on a bunch of these. A few of them that will, but a lot of it doesn't.

48:40
And part of the reason for that is because, like, the boot stack is U-boot and you know it's a proprietary or not proprietary but it's a fork of U-boot that maybe nobody has ever pushed upstream and you know there's a decent chance that these things don't have any permanent flash to install U-boot 2. And so you know, to install Linux on it you've got to compile this really weird U-boot thing. You've got to then compile a linux kernel that's, you know, some terrible ancient uh vendor fork and uh, I mean, it's just, it's just nuts to do it. I've done it on several of these devices. I've got it, gotten excited over several single board computer devices and then been very disappointed by the amount of work it took uh, all that to say, um, the guys, ataspbian, are doing the work and actually do really, really good work making a lot of this work, a lot of making this Linux distro work on many, many of these boards.

49:37 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And so if, particularly if Debian is something you want to run, then go with this, go with Rmbian go with Armbian, and what was interesting when I was researching this article is that the Armbian team also received the Nextbox Hero Award this year Nextbox Hero, netbox Hero Award.

50:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Netbox Hero, ah ha ha.

50:09 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
By Netbox Hero. By Netbox Labs.

50:13 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I'm not sure what Netbox Labs is, but Do they make netboxes, the world's platform for network and infrastructure management? Yes, they make netboxes. It's a lab that makes netboxes. There you go.

50:26 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I told you.

50:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You, rob, called it. Yeah, all right, let's see um. Let's talk briefly about as the kernel turns. Uh, we're turning in this case from 615 to 616 and uh, there's a couple of interesting things to cover, not in great detail, but just in passing. 6.15 did release on the 25th May 25th. There's the normal hardware improvements, security fixes, all of that good stuff.

51:00
More rust People have been pointing out more rust in the kernel is happening. Bcash FS is continuing to get more and more mature and is not quite as scary to run anymore. You know, there's some firmware, there's some subsystem things going on. Interestingly, the Apple Silicon work is continuing. Even with one of their maintainers retiring, they're managing to continue on all kinds of interesting stuff in 6.15. But we tend to look forward here and look at 6.16 and it's got uh, it's got some really interesting things in it too, like the really stupendous performance enhancement for ext4, everybody's favorite, almost old file system at this point. Uh, we know that butter fs and bcash fs are the new shiny ones, but if you really want your data to stick around, ext4 or xfs are good options to go with um. But there are there's some interesting things coming in ext4 that, in the right workloads is apparently going to give you like a 37% improvement. You're doing large sequential IO, which 37% improvement on file system is pretty dang impressive.

52:22
There are, of course, other things going on. In the 616 kernel hardware enablement, amd GPU is adding the user mode queues. We talked briefly about that a couple of weeks ago. I think that is the idea that a full screen game can just skip your window manager and all of that and talk directly to the GPU Should end up with a bit faster frame rates, lower CPU usage, all of those things. Lots of stuff, lots of stuff going on in there. We will link to it.

52:54
And then there was one more that sort of really caught my eye in this and that is Radeon Software. That is AMD's sort of official support for their video cards. Radeon Software for Linux is dropping the proprietary OpenGL slash Vulkan drivers, which, with the OpenGL drivers, it's not terribly surprising. The proprietary Vulkan drivers, those are not that old, only been around for a few years. But with the next major Radeon Software for Linux release all of that's going to go away. It's going to be open source or bust for Radeon, and that's really interesting to me. It's really pretty fascinating that we've come so far, so quickly with AMD and their video card drivers, the open source drivers.

53:48
I, I remember when, uh, I remember when it was bad trying to run the open source drivers for amd, uh, very similar to how it is still for nvidia. It's not a great experience to run the nouveau drivers, um, but uh, we've come a long, long ways since then and, interestingly, mesa Rad V is the community Vulcan driver. It's the unofficial and it is now about to become the official Vulcan driver, and so you know, that's cool, that's neat, um, likely to see a bunch of things land in that now that the hopefully the amd engineers will actually start working on working on that, um, but yeah, neat stuff, cool stuff. If you're running amd, like hopefully most of us are, I only know one guy that's running nvidia on his Linux machine and we did a lot on the show today yeah, we kicked him off.

54:45
That's why. But yeah, I don't think we kicked him off.

54:47 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's why I don't think we kicked him off. I just think he had a problem with it.

54:52 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That's what it is. He is at home right now trying to get his NVIDIA drivers to work. That's where Jeff is.

54:58 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I thought you meant he had a problem with us talking about how good AMD was. Even though he's given some AMD love lately.

55:06 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh, Jeff said several times that if he builds another machine he's going to put an AMD card in it. Yeah, it's a piece of use.

55:12 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, it's interesting that it sounds like they believe that the open source OpenGL driver is good enough or better, that there's just no point in buying their proprietary anymore. Yeah, yeah.

55:32 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
That's the way it all should be. What I really found interesting from Michael's article is that the release note mentions AMD AMF will also no longer be included, with users encouraged instead to target the video acceleration API within Mesa.

55:51 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, let's hope that gets some love too. It's much better than it used to be VA API. It crashes less. It's less likely to take your desktop down all the way now. Yeah, I'm real happy to see AMD sort of washing its hands of their old proprietary stuff and embracing the things that are out there as open source.

56:13 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It's more efficient. They get some free assistance with improving it.

56:19 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yep Team Red. I think I get confused with the colors green and red, but I believe Red is NVIDIA Team. Red needs to no, no, the other way around. I got it backwards, you got it backwards. I believe red is NVIDIA Team Red needs to. No, no, the other way around. I got it backwards, you got it backwards. I'm going to stop using colors. Team NVIDIA needs to take some cues from AMD, I think here.

56:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, so here's what you do when you Google NVIDIA, you see a logo that pops up that one's green. When you Google AMD, you see a logo pop up and that one's black and white, which is not terribly helpful. I was picturing a green AMD in my head, no, so Team Red came from the old ATI.

56:59 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
ATI had the red logo. Yeah, there's a green NVIDIA logo right there. Huh, I don't know.

57:05 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And Intel is nonexistent now. What's that? Intel is-existent now as far as graphic drivers, I mean, they would be team, they would be team blue.

57:16 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Um, no, so actually intel, intel ran open source graphics drivers way before either of the others did. Intel did actually sort of was the, the, the groundbreaker there? They, they kind of were the pioneers of this. You know, their video cards built into their CPUs were. So the integrated GPU built into all those Intel CPUs were never amazing. You could run a desktop on it, but you didn't run a game on it. They're getting better. Didn't Intel just recently release another, or announce at least another, battlemage card?

57:49 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'm pretty sure they did I thought they were still uh trying to work on the uh, on their gpus, on the um. What's the word I'm looking for?

57:57 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
they're, they're discrete gpus yep, yep, it is. Uh, yeah, I want to say they're, they're real interesting is kind of a low mid level um, and really good. If you want to say they're they're real interesting as kind of a low mid level Um, and really good If you want to do, like on the fly, video re-encoding, that's something they're particularly really good at.

58:15 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, their Intel arc is is their thing, that they're still working on and and I mean I've never used one, I don't really know anyone who does, but I keep hearing that they keep getting better and better, whatever that means from people I don't know.

58:31 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yep absolutely.

58:34 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
All right, which graphics company do you think will be able to support multiple streams with their hardware?

58:42 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
first, what do you mean, like encoding multiple streams at the same time? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can do that now with several of them, because I know that's something that we were doing with. Zoneminder is trying to use the GPU to encode video streams, and I think that was working. It's challenging, right, like you run into hardware limitations trying to move that many pixels around at the same time. But a lot of them, a lot of them, can do it in one way or another. So, all right, shall we, uh, shall we do cover some command line tips? Yeah, what else?

59:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
do?

59:25 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
we got to do I'm a little scared about rob's tip, a little nervous about this one man.

59:31 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I'm not sure which one.

59:33 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, rob's got p yes, yes, so I am going to talk about p this time. I'm continuing on my more utile series. I think this is going to be my last one in the more utile story before I go on to something, and I am finishing with a good one. P spelled p e e, so p is similar to t, as in t e e, which I realized. We have not talked about the command t yet, so I'll have to maybe bring that up next. It's once you know, once you learn about p, t is going to be very similar. So, uh, t, what t you know. I'm just going to talk about now. What t does is it takes a standard input. So you pipe something to the standard input and it splits it into a standard output and a file. The linux p command will split your stream into two or more streams, pun intended. So what you can do is you can pipe a standard input into P and it will split it and act upon it as many times as you want. So I'm going to do a little example here For those watching on my screen.

01:00:43
I have the command echo, space, quote Linux is fun quote or double quote or whatever, and then I have that piped to P, and then I'm running three commands after P, so it's going to split this into three streams. So it's P space, single quote, cat, redirect into file one, dot txt, single quote space. And then I have rev, which is reverse. I have that redirecting into file two, dot txt. And then I have space, single quote, wcu, so word count, and I am redirecting that into file word count dot txt. So when I run that I mean you don't see anything because I didn't output anything to the stream, to the uh, to the well, yeah, to the stream, I guess. So now I have these three files. So if I look at them, file one has it just c it into there, so it's Linux is fun. File two has it's just reverse, it's Linux is fun backwards. And then if I do cat word count, so it's split that, so you can act upon it multiple times.

01:02:04
You know, this is just for example here, but you could do a lot more useful things. If you want to run a command, take its output, put it into a log file and then act upon it At the same time act upon it somewhere else, and whatever else you do. I'm going to do another one here Echo double quote. Uls is the best double quote, piping that to P and then I'm just running. So P space, cat, space, cat, rev space, cap space, cat, do that, and it's just gonna spit that all out on the screen. Um, it's such a standard output it you could see that didn't actually do it in the order, because the very first thing that popped out of my standard output is the reversed one. Apparently that's faster than cat. I don't know how that worked like that, but every time I'd done it that's the one that popped up first. But yeah, I don't know, I could maybe do a whole bunch more and see what happens.

01:03:09 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Try putting a rev at the very end after all these cats.

01:03:13 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, so this time I did a whole bunch of cats Cat cat Rev, cat cat, cat, cat, cat cat Rev and it did it in order that I put it out. So I don't know, but it's not something that really order would likely matter, unless you're acting on the same file yeah, I was gonna say, if your order matters, then you, you, you have a logical bug in what you're doing if your order matters, you want to use one of the commands that I gave you a few weeks ago, which would be I don't remember, but I know there's.

01:03:48
there's something, it's in the notes, go look it's in the. But I know there's something. It's in the notes, go, look it's in the notes. I know there's something here. I just can't quite place what that command is. But yeah, there you go. We're talking about P today.

01:03:59 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, ken, let's talk about Pipewire, and what are we doing with the Pipewire CLI today?

01:04:06 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
We're going to destroy some global objects today. That's a very simple command, but it does take, to demonstrate it, a bit of a setup. Are you able to read my terminals here?

01:04:21 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I can yeah.

01:04:22 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Okay, so I'm going to launch PWTop first. We've got that launched over in the top left terminal and then I'm going to go ahead and go into the pwcommandline interpreter over here so I can do it from within it. Now I'm going to go ahead and list my nodes, and the one in particular that I'm looking for is the freewheel driver node. It's ID 30. In fact, you get that from the top, but over here you can see information about it. I could have even done it this way by just using the info command with the 30 from a couple of weeks ago, and that's all the data that you have about it. So I'm going to destroy 30. That's all it takes, and you saw in the PWDOP it updated so that it's no longer listed and if I do an info 30, it's no longer there. But the good news is there is a way to get that back without having to create it all over again In the bottom right, and this is why I don't have myself in my video feed at the moment.

01:06:09 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
We're all thankful for that.

01:06:12 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And to sit Rob up for that. But I've got a system command that will let you restart Pipewire as well as give you the last 10 lines from your journal control so you can see what it's doing. Now you'll notice that it closed the Pipewire command line interpreter and PW top both. So let's go ahead and run that and you'll see that the free will driver is back, because it read it from the config files when it restarted Nice, because it read it from the config files when it restarted Nice. So it's not permanent.

01:06:58 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It's not permanent. I like it Very good.

01:07:06 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Being able to get rid of stuff is useful, especially if you're wanting to play around and see what effect removing something has.

01:07:12 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So I've got a quick one and that is disown. And this is for a very particular issue that I don't know you might find it useful. So it's for if you have launched a job in the background but you want the job to continue even after you close the terminal, and so you don't want the job to receive, like a SIGHUB, the hang up signal or something when you close the terminal or leave the SSH session. There is actually a command to tell it to continue running even though it is no longer talking to a terminal, and that is the disown command. To tell it to continue running even though it is no longer talking to a terminal, and that is the disown command. This works with the jobs command.

01:07:56
So jobs-l will list the background jobs and then disown. You can specify a job number or you can use disown-a and it will disown all of the background jobs. I'm not sure how many people use background jobs in Linux anymore, since you know Tmux and Screen are so popular and usable. But if you do and you find yourself in this position where I started a background job and I've got to close the terminal, disown is the way to do it. It'll make it run sort of off in the ether, not connected to your terminal anymore, and then it'll be able to finish back there in the far background, where, where you want it.

01:08:37 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Sometimes, sometimes I have accidentally put jobs in the background.

01:08:42 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah.

01:08:43 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
And then usually I just bring them back to the foreground. But I guess if I didn't want and then kill it if that's what I wanted to do. But I guess if I didn't want and then kill it if that's what I wanted to do, but I guess I could just skip that step and just kill it, disown it.

01:08:54 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
There's times when I'll launch a graphical user application from the command line. That's true, and I'll put it in the command into the background so that I can continue typing in the command line.

01:09:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You might want to close that command line terminal and disown is the way to do it, yeah, yeah. So, rob, when you disown it, it doesn't kill it, it leaves it running. Oh, it just totally detaches from your terminal.

01:09:18 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
But then there's no way to get back to it.

01:09:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Not without something like Repetier. Yeah, so I guess you're going to just disown my job and, uh, not kill it it's probably a good idea, uh all right good advice, good advice, all right, we'll let each of the guys plug whatever they would like to, and ken gets to go first.

01:09:45 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Ken what get the last word, or plug whatever you want to uh, in the show notes i've've got a link to an article by Michael Larabelle. It's about VirtualBox 7.2 Beta bringing Windows 11 ARM support, and you've got the source code on GitHub.

01:10:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Very cool.

01:10:09 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I found it an interesting article, neat.

01:10:13 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I've not run VirtualBox for a long time, but that was my VM of choice for a while. All right, Rob.

01:10:20 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I too have seen that article. Since it was about Windows, I didn't bring it to a Linux show, but anyway, that's beside the point. We're talking about me here, all me, and if you want more of me, you can come find me my website, robertpcampbellcom. On that website you can connect with me, my LinkedIn, my Twitter, my blue sky. I saw somebody in the Discord say today that they have blue sky, so they're not going to connect a mast on. But I have blue sky right there, blue sky, and connect on there. And if you have mast on, I'm mast on. And if you want to donate $5 increments for coffees, you can click there and donate a coffee to me. Or, if you want, you can donate a coffee. Put in the notes, donate for one of these other fine gentlemen on the show and just make sure to note it. And eventually here I plan to meet up with them and give them all the money I owe them.

01:11:19 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
He's just going to meet up with us and throw coffees at us. He's like holding one of those trays of four coffees. Hey guys, here you go.

01:11:29 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'll just bring a whole, a whole like a package of ground coffee as well. This should cover it, you know uh, yeah, I foresee it happening.

01:11:38 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, thank you guys for being here. Appreciate, it was a lot of fun always. Yeah, all right, if you want to find more of me, there's, of course, hackaday. That is where floss weekly is at and my security column goes live there friday mornings. Other than that, we appreciate everybody that's here. We appreciate those on Club Twit. If you're not and you want access to the unencumbered the advertisement unencumbered version of the shows, you can get it at Club Twit. It's about the price of one of those cups of coffee that Rob owes us per month, somewhere between one and two cups of coffee. Anyway, if you're there, we appreciate it and if not, you ought to think about it. But we appreciate everybody that is here that watches, that listens, that gets us live and on the download, and we will be back. We will see you next week with another episode of the Untitled Living Show.