TWiT+ Club Shows 774 Transcript - Off By One With Jeff Atwood #6
Please be advised that this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word-for-word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-free version of the show.
Leo Laporte [00:00:00]:
This is TWiT. It's time for Off By One with Jeffrey Atwood. He is the community wizard who brought us such exciting things as Stack Overflow and Discourse. And as we learned last week, last time, the CommonMark standard with John McFarlane. This week, Jeff's worried.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:24]:
We're bringing you something, and now for something completely different.
Leo Laporte [00:00:27]:
Jeff's worried because he says he doesn't We don't— he doesn't have a show.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:32]:
Wait, wait.
Leo Laporte [00:00:33]:
He has no content, he says.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:35]:
Who said this?
Leo Laporte [00:00:37]:
You, Jeffrey Atwood.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:38]:
No, I didn't say that.
Leo Laporte [00:00:39]:
You were worried that we wouldn't have anything to talk about this week.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:42]:
No, no, I never, never said that. I just think we should like—
Leo Laporte [00:00:44]:
I felt that. Maybe I just felt— I felt your concern.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:47]:
I think we should not— although I do enjoy winging it, and winging it has been a pretty good life strat for me. Like, I like when you guide me. You're actually a very good interviewer. And it's nice we go back and forth. I don't want to show—
Leo Laporte [00:00:59]:
Right now you sound like my AI agent being a little sycophantic.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:04]:
Yes, but I actually like and love you. And I would, I would do, you know, I, I'm actually being Leo. Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:01:13]:
Checking to see if it will push.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:15]:
See, that's not a person. That's a bag of statistics.
Leo Laporte [00:01:18]:
There it did. But you see now what it did? See that? It did it. It put off by 1 up there.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:22]:
Well, okay, that's good.
Leo Laporte [00:01:23]:
It is a bag of statistics.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:25]:
It is, it truly is. Uh, let me get my one prop. Well, the two. So I built a little mini— are we started?
Leo Laporte [00:01:32]:
Timothy says, I don't talk about pondering my orb in public, but if the rich paid taxes, they would be less rich. That's how they get rich. That's the, that's the key to the whole thing. Uh, yes, go get your prop. I will get my prop.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:45]:
No, no, I have it. It's right here. It's right here. It's a tiny Lego safe.
Leo Laporte [00:01:48]:
Why are you— are you wearing sunglasses to hide something?
Jeff Atwood [00:01:51]:
No.
Leo Laporte [00:01:51]:
Did you get a black eye?
Jeff Atwood [00:01:52]:
I just want to be really cool, but it does reflect the screen a lot, which is not cool.
Leo Laporte [00:01:55]:
So, well, it just looks a little— it looks like, uh, oh yeah, you— yeah, I can see. Put them back on.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:01]:
Oh no.
Leo Laporte [00:02:02]:
Okay, anything that'll help. That's the Jeff Atwood I know and love. Yeah, I want to thank you because you mailed me— oh, let me see your little Lego safe.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:13]:
No, no, show your thing.
Leo Laporte [00:02:15]:
I think I don't have the thing with me, but you mailed me some giant protest— well, there are those Jesus signs, right? Where they have 2 different angles.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:29]:
Don't say Jesus. It's lenticular. That's the correct term.
Leo Laporte [00:02:32]:
Lenticular.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:33]:
Yes. We like to use correct words for stuff.
Leo Laporte [00:02:35]:
So I call them Jesus signs.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:37]:
Jesus signs.
Leo Laporte [00:02:39]:
And you mailed me a few of those and I thought, what am I going to do with these? Because they're giant. And then I realized, I can bring them to the next protest, but I didn't bring them upstairs or downstairs with the rest of our protest gear. You know, the gas masks, the helmets, the Antifa, you know, balaclavas, all of that.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:57]:
Yeah. Uh, so—
Leo Laporte [00:03:00]:
I have something I could show you. Look, it's a little teddy bear. Hello, Jeff. This could fit into your Lego safe.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:09]:
Who gave you that? I don't know.
Leo Laporte [00:03:10]:
It's just been sitting here. Maybe you. I don't know.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:12]:
I, I know I wouldn't give you that. Okay, so Lego safe. Oh, you know, I just don't like that thing. I wouldn't. So I need to fix— okay, I, I connected with my Lego.
Leo Laporte [00:03:21]:
Is there something that distinguishes the things you would give me with the things you wouldn't give me?
Jeff Atwood [00:03:25]:
Well, that's just not my style. Like, it's just— I don't know, it's not my style.
Leo Laporte [00:03:29]:
A tie-dye teddy bear.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:31]:
Uh, but this Lego mini Lego safe is my style. What's in it?
Leo Laporte [00:03:35]:
What's in the mini Lego safe, Jeff Atwood?
Jeff Atwood [00:03:37]:
Because I had to contact my, my Lego nerd friends and they're like, first of all, we're called BrickHeadz. And I'm like, okay, buddy. And, uh, did you say cocaine, buddy? No, BrickHeadz.
Leo Laporte [00:03:49]:
BrickHeadz.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:50]:
My Lego buddies.
Leo Laporte [00:03:51]:
My Lego buddies.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:53]:
And that's the piece that's missing here for attachment. Look at my wealth. Look at the wealth I've accrued. And it's not taxed because it's wealth.
Leo Laporte [00:04:01]:
It's little plastic.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:02]:
Good luck taxing this. Bitches.
Leo Laporte [00:04:05]:
See, I have a little one.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:07]:
Yeah, look at all this wealth I'm hoarding.
Leo Laporte [00:04:09]:
Is that a, is that a Lego gold bar?
Jeff Atwood [00:04:11]:
Don't look, I'm gonna learn the code. And there's a wheel, but that's— this piece is coming. And then this was—
Leo Laporte [00:04:19]:
Did that take you days to build that Lego kit?
Jeff Atwood [00:04:22]:
It did a little bit because there was a YouTube tutorial and the guy got— first of all, he used a really obscure piece, which is annoying, and he left out 2 major pieces. He's like, here's all the pieces. Totally wrong.
Leo Laporte [00:04:33]:
And he left— you're like going, no, that's like being mean.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:36]:
And he should have named them because some height things, it was hard to see from the angle. I understand there's a couple, you know, technicalities, but he was missing some 2x3s, which I do resent. And, uh, now it's pretty built up. And, uh, this is like an activity I'm doing. I have another semi-complete safe here. I, I have enough to build 200 of these babies for all my massive wealth I've accrued.
Leo Laporte [00:04:56]:
Enough to have 200 tiny safes.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:58]:
Yeah, well, you need to—
Leo Laporte [00:04:59]:
You know what, it would fit your Bitcoin.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:04]:
I don't even know what— I mean, come on, it's, it's Bitcoin. It's an electron. It's not— doesn't have a size.
Leo Laporte [00:05:11]:
So imagine this but giant.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:14]:
Well, I, I— hold on, don't, don't imagine. Stay right there. I, I'm gonna be right back, I swear. This is not gonna take long. Let's just, just, just, you know, trust me, Leo. You shouldn't, but you will. And I'm gonna Bringing some stuff.
Leo Laporte [00:05:28]:
But the best thing about this particular microphone is you can wander away and you're still on microphone.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:33]:
That's right.
Leo Laporte [00:05:34]:
That's right.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:34]:
I'm still with you.
Leo Laporte [00:05:35]:
It's wireless. Did Burke send you a microphone and arm which you've now declined to use?
Jeff Atwood [00:05:40]:
Well, you know, let's not talk about that. You know what, Burke Hay—
Leo Laporte [00:05:45]:
I don't know why Burke Hay did this. This is not fun.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:48]:
You know what the problem is? Burke Hay is off on Fridays and our show is on Fridays. I demand, demand that this show be moved.
Leo Laporte [00:05:54]:
It may—
Jeff Atwood [00:05:54]:
so then I can yell at Burke Hay while he's here.
Leo Laporte [00:05:56]:
It may not be a coincidence.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:58]:
Because I want people to see how cool Berkay is.
Leo Laporte [00:06:00]:
Look how big these are.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:01]:
That's what she said.
Leo Laporte [00:06:02]:
So you, you sent me a handful of them, uh, but they're gonna come very handy because No King's Day is, uh, October 18th.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:09]:
If you, if you want more—
Leo Laporte [00:06:10]:
No, no, I don't. There's only 2 of us.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:14]:
Just— Are you counting your AIs? Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:06:17]:
No.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:17]:
Okay.
Leo Laporte [00:06:18]:
I put— but I do use one on each side so that from front and back. Submit billionaires first. Stay asleep. Yeah, I think it's left to right. There you go.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:30]:
Look at that. Okay, and what else we got? What do we got for entertainment?
Leo Laporte [00:06:34]:
Where did you find these?
Jeff Atwood [00:06:36]:
Jeff Grubler. Another Jeff. Infinite Jeffs. The Jeffs. San Francisco. My man is awesome. The Grubler. He does this for fun.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:43]:
He's a hardcore activist and I admire this man greatly.
Leo Laporte [00:06:45]:
But he makes lenticular signs.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:48]:
Steal their Oren Milners. Yeah, put on the sunglasses. Do you see why I had the sunglasses on? Put those sunglasses on or start eating that trash can. He's like, oh my God, now I can see what's going on. That, that's actually what I was doing. So because the movie They Live with the one of the best fight scenes—
Leo Laporte [00:07:07]:
I'm not up on all of cinema history.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:09]:
1989, it's a great movie.
Leo Laporte [00:07:11]:
Is Jeff Bridges in it? Because if it's not, I don't care.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:13]:
Rowdy Roddy Piper is in it.
Leo Laporte [00:07:14]:
And that's Rowdy Roddy Piper. I think Smashed Potato has put, in fact, An image of Ratty Roddy Piper into our Discord. Not discourse.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:24]:
Look, stop talking about Epstein.
Leo Laporte [00:07:26]:
Obey.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:27]:
Kill narcoterrorists. Yeah, stop talking about Epstein.
Leo Laporte [00:07:31]:
There's Ratty Roddy Piper.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:33]:
Are you seeing?
Leo Laporte [00:07:33]:
Wasn't he a professional wrestler?
Jeff Atwood [00:07:35]:
Yes, he was. And that's why it's so good. Seriously, anyone listening, if you haven't seen They Live, do yourself a favor and you will say, Jeff Hatwood, thank you, man.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:47]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:47]:
Thank you, whoever did that. You're awesome.
Leo Laporte [00:07:48]:
I get it now.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:50]:
Yeah, put the sunglasses on.
Leo Laporte [00:07:51]:
I get it.
Leo Laporte [00:07:51]:
So there's a subliminal obey.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:53]:
Now you can see.
Leo Laporte [00:07:55]:
Is that Rowdy? Rowdy?
Jeff Atwood [00:07:57]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:07:57]:
Piper?
Jeff Atwood [00:07:58]:
He's good in this. I mean, he's over the top, but that's the whole thing.
Leo Laporte [00:08:02]:
What's the name of this movie?
Jeff Atwood [00:08:03]:
It's a great cult classic. They Live, 1989.
Leo Laporte [00:08:07]:
And is it, uh—
Jeff Atwood [00:08:08]:
Hey, hey, hey, mashed potato, play that fight scene. Come on, do it. Do it, man. We want to see the fight scene. I want Leo to see the magnificence of this fight scene. It's not that long, but it's awesome.
Leo Laporte [00:08:19]:
So we don't have anything to talk about today.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:22]:
No, no, we do. This is leading into some other stuff. Oh, um, uh, I just want to demo all the lenticulars because I have a lenticular of, um, that we're creating, uh, Defend the Homeland or Be Our Gestapo. Which is it? Which is it?
Leo Laporte [00:08:35]:
That's the little one I had.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:36]:
Put on sunglasses. Or start eating that trash can.
Leo Laporte [00:08:39]:
Is the— is the they in They Live— are they aliens or are they zombies?
Jeff Atwood [00:08:47]:
Aliens. I came here for 2 reasons: chew bubble gum, kick ass, and a lot of bubble gum. Sunglasses.
Leo Laporte [00:08:54]:
I thought that that line originated with, uh, Serious Sam, but I was—
Jeff Atwood [00:09:02]:
I am so disappointed in you as a person right now. No.
Leo Laporte [00:09:06]:
So he was parroting the line.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:08]:
Operation Epic Fury or War on Healthcare? War, not healthcare.
Leo Laporte [00:09:13]:
Yeah, there you go. That one's dated.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:16]:
Well, the only war you win is the one you don't have. Yeah, pro tip.
Leo Laporte [00:09:22]:
I think that was Matthew Broderick in Game of Thrones.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:27]:
You know, I didn't watch Game of Thrones. I read the book of Game of Thrones thinking it would finish, and then haha, never ends. I'm so pissed. All right, and then the final one, um, Operation Fury or bomb schools and hospitals, which is going to be—
Jeff Atwood [00:09:41]:
why not both?
Leo Laporte [00:09:41]:
I'm going to watch this movie, uh, They Live. Now you have— I, and I, I think I popped in once, uh, you have some sort of software that your friend wrote that lets you get together and watch movies.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:53]:
We were watching Starship Troopers and Leo came in and named himself Peanut Butter Panther, which is a little disturbing, frankly.
Leo Laporte [00:10:00]:
I didn't know that you were supposed— I named myself myself.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:02]:
You didn't know I know what I know, but I know what I know.
Leo Laporte [00:10:04]:
I named myself my name and then I didn't understand because everybody had a funny name and I thought, oh, I was supposed to use a handle.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:10]:
Don't underestimate me, sir.
Leo Laporte [00:10:11]:
So I said, I'm Leo.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:13]:
Hi. Leo was cool though. Everybody else was like, who the hell is this guy? I was like, it's Leo Laporte.
Leo Laporte [00:10:17]:
It's cool.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:17]:
And he was very— Leo, you were very cool.
Leo Laporte [00:10:19]:
Until the shower scene. And then I had to leave because I was just—
Jeff Atwood [00:10:22]:
Well, that's the best scene. Why would you leave? What's wrong with you? Come on, man. We fast-forwarded back over the scene like 10 times.
Leo Laporte [00:10:30]:
The Song of Ice and Fire, the series, hasn't finished, but Ghalia says, but the book Game of Thrones did finish. Let's not— Confuse our tropes.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:39]:
Leo, I have a perfect segue. I—
Leo Laporte [00:10:42]:
yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:43]:
Wait, no, finish what you're saying. I'm sorry.
Leo Laporte [00:10:45]:
I was just going to go T-S-O-I-A-O-F.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:48]:
What is that?
Leo Laporte [00:10:49]:
The Song of Ice and Fire.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:51]:
Oh, The Song of Ice and Fire. Okay. All right. So with the idea that you have to put on the sunglasses to see, this channel, this YouTube channel, Politizane, 12 years ago, 13 years ago, dropped one video. It's an anonymous channel about wealth inequality.
Leo Laporte [00:11:07]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:11:07]:
I discovered it, I don't know when, early on, and I was obsessed with this thing. It was so good. It was like Norman Rockwell himself descended on a cloud and explained it to you like you were his best friend for life. And it was so clear. I was like, oh my God, that video introduced the words wealth inequality into the American political lexicon, among other things. It's considered one of the best. It's taught in schools to a lot of kids, and like as an example of like really good communication through infographics. And, you know—
Leo Laporte [00:11:42]:
Is this how you got into, um, uh, this whole, uh, uh, rural guaranteed income initiative?
Jeff Atwood [00:11:49]:
Well, it's related because I would watch that video every year, and I went through my— I have my Twitter archives, you know, the hell site. I really did—
Leo Laporte [00:11:58]:
Wait a minute, there's—
Jeff Atwood [00:11:59]:
That video about once every year.
Leo Laporte [00:12:00]:
This is the first one. There's more. There's new ones.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:02]:
Right, right. So look, 13 years ago, there's a chart.
Leo Laporte [00:12:05]:
This was the original one.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:07]:
That's the original. Yeah, classic OG.
Leo Laporte [00:12:10]:
But 26 million views over 13 years.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:14]:
Yeah, yeah. So it's like evergreen. And if you look at— do the scrub bar. Like, look at the scrub bar in this. It's like just flat. Look, everything is good. There's no— like, there's a few minors, but like—
Leo Laporte [00:12:25]:
Oh yeah, you don't have like, as you do with many YouTube videos, where it's like, oh, this is the— everybody watched this segment over and over.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:30]:
No, everything is good. And like Yeah, the new video, it's pretty—
Leo Laporte [00:12:34]:
it really pretty much pulls you in even better.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:36]:
And there's 4 of them. He's really—
Leo Laporte [00:12:38]:
well, this person has released 3 so far, and it says 4 new videos, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:12:46]:
Right. And the 4th one is coming this Wednesday, and everybody's kind of on the edge of their seat because this has been like— this is the Terminator 2 of—
Leo Laporte [00:12:55]:
Oh, I see. This is the trailer. I get it.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:57]:
Right. That just explains what's going on. And listen to the soothing voice. Just listen.
Leo's Laptop [00:13:03]:
4 new videos, all dropping in September.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:06]:
So soothing. It's like Bob Ross is talking to me.
Leo Laporte [00:13:10]:
Wait a minute, it's September? Oh, so all but the last one have come out?
Jeff Atwood [00:13:15]:
Correct, that's correct. 3 out of 4 are now in play.
Leo Laporte [00:13:18]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:19]:
And the first one is nice because it's just a straight-up update, a 2026 update.
Leo Laporte [00:13:23]:
Wait a minute, I want to watch the Bob Newhart toupee sketch that broke Dean Martin. Can we watch that instead?
Jeff Atwood [00:13:28]:
For a little bit.
Leo Laporte [00:13:30]:
This is the problem with YouTube and me, ADHD me.
Leo's Laptop [00:13:36]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:13:36]:
YouTube goes, but you don't want to watch health and wealth inequality videos. You, you, my friend, want to watch—
Jeff Atwood [00:13:44]:
Well, usually it's all the thirst traps. It's like, look at sexy person do X.
Leo Laporte [00:13:47]:
Well, I don't, you know, it's, you know, I shouldn't say anything, but you do know that it's based on what you watch.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:54]:
Well, you think?
Leo Laporte [00:13:55]:
So if you're getting thirsty—
Jeff Atwood [00:13:56]:
This is a great insight you give me. I didn't know that. Thanks, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:13:59]:
I'm just saying.
Leo's Laptop [00:14:00]:
I am really not dumb.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:03]:
I had no idea.
Leo Laporte [00:14:03]:
So who is this? You know this guy, Politizane?
Jeff Atwood [00:14:07]:
Not directly.
Leo Laporte [00:14:08]:
Is that how you say it? Politizane?
Jeff Atwood [00:14:10]:
Not directly, but—
Leo Laporte [00:14:11]:
No one knows. He or she, we don't even know if it's a he or she, is anonymous.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:14]:
In the interest of disclosure, so when I wrote Stay Gold, America, I wanted to make a video to go with it. And I hired David Friedman, Ironic Sans. I said, come to Alameda, make a video. And then I just called it off. I was like, take the money, don't come here.
Leo Laporte [00:14:28]:
Because no video I could have made would have been as important as this video.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:32]:
This is the best anybody's ever done. Yeah. That wasn't being made, but I really wanted to be made. So I made a really strong effort to try to find this person. And—
Leo Laporte [00:14:41]:
How hard was it to find this person?
Jeff Atwood [00:14:43]:
Well, it just took a while. I think it is. Um, there is an email.
Leo Laporte [00:14:47]:
Because this person— and again, we don't— I mean, that's a male voice, but we don't know who it is.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:50]:
Yeah, it's a male voice.
Leo Laporte [00:14:51]:
Have you, have you met this person ever?
Jeff Atwood [00:14:54]:
I don't really want to say that, but like I will say, there's going to be more disclosure later.
Leo Laporte [00:14:59]:
Did you go to a secret location?
Jeff Atwood [00:15:01]:
No, well, there's more disclosure later.
Leo Laporte [00:15:03]:
You have to help give him your cell phone.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:05]:
I have worked to make this happen because I think we needed it as—
Leo Laporte [00:15:09]:
You wanted a sequel.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:11]:
No, we the people needed this to see how effed up it is.
Leo Laporte [00:15:16]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:17]:
And my man lays it out. These are so good.
Leo Laporte [00:15:20]:
This is the Terminator 2 I have to do this because otherwise I'm going to watch Nick Cage be—
Jeff Atwood [00:15:25]:
And I urge everyone watching this, please—
Leo Laporte [00:15:28]:
Get rid of this.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:28]:
Watch these videos because they're important. This gets to something central that we need to fix in the world, namely—
Leo Laporte [00:15:36]:
Wealth inequality.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:37]:
Well, concentration is absurd. You have basically— most people have nothing or close to it, and a few people have absurd amounts of money. I'm talking—
Leo Laporte [00:15:47]:
Actually, that's what you're saying.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:48]:
They have enough money as a large government agency or country.
Leo Laporte [00:15:52]:
What's funny is this was 12 years ago and this was before Elon Musk. This is really, I mean, we are in a new golden age.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:59]:
The second one does a good job of comparing. It's like how far apart the 1% guy, the 1% guy is now closer to the zero money guy than the top.
Leo's Laptop [00:16:06]:
13 years ago, I had a little system video that went viral. It all started with a simple chart.
Leo Laporte [00:16:11]:
This is the new one. So, um, good. So we, you, um, it's a delight. We don't need to play it because it's on YouTube, as are we, but—
Jeff Atwood [00:16:21]:
Everyone needs to see it. I will mention, if you go to Declepsia, read the— not the comments, but the description of the, uh, video, please. Yeah, expand that part.
Leo Laporte [00:16:30]:
This part here?
Jeff Atwood [00:16:31]:
Okay, yeah, scroll down a little more. There's something kind of buried here, it's really good. Uh, see, this says our companion PDF. Our companion PDF, that is really good. Like, if you're curious about the methodology and how things came to be and like this person, it is outstanding.
Leo Laporte [00:16:48]:
So this is the deets.
Jeff Atwood [00:16:51]:
This is the background that justifies, here's how he arrived at this. I mean, you can debate this, that, but like, here was the methodology. Yeah. And it's extremely well researched and laid out. And he even tells his, his story like in a very delightful, down-to-earth way. Like, this is just a guy.
Leo Laporte [00:17:10]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:17:10]:
It's not some agency. It's not some— it's just, you know, he's one of us. He's just a guy trying to figure this out. along with us. And I do urge people to look at the PDF compendium. It won't be complete until the 4th video comes out, and then it'll be the complete compendium. But that is great for detail if you have really low-level questions. And I did want to answer some— there are some questions that came up like a lot that were not like really good questions, but like need to be sort of addressed.
Jeff Atwood [00:17:42]:
And I wanted to go ahead and do that, if you don't mind, sort of as a public service. And you can take some of them if you want.
Leo Laporte [00:17:48]:
Sure.
Jeff Atwood [00:17:48]:
Where are they? Well, I have them here. Okay. All right.
Leo Laporte [00:17:55]:
Are these questions from the YouTube comments or what?
Jeff Atwood [00:17:58]:
These are frequently asked, not great questions. Like if you just did a little bit of research, you would find the answer.
Leo Laporte [00:18:05]:
But that's the case with almost all frequently asked questions. It's like, let me Google that for you.
Jeff Atwood [00:18:11]:
Right. So Leo, number 2, you can probably just take this yourself. Why don't you just show the curve using a logarithmic scale?
Leo Laporte [00:18:19]:
Oh, because then it wouldn't go off. Oh, okay. So I'll explain why that question. He starts to show the curve, but then it goes off the screen because the difference between the least, the lowest income Americans and the highest is so high you can't fit it on the screen. And, and it's true. If he'd simply used a logarithmic scale, you could fit it on the screen, but then you wouldn't see the difference, which I'm sure is the answer to that.
Jeff Atwood [00:18:44]:
Kind of pastes over the fact that these are absurdly different numbers.
Leo's Laptop [00:18:47]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:18:48]:
I mean, and that's okay. It's like they're saying, well, you should try to represent the way it fits on the screen. But like, no, we should—
Leo Laporte [00:18:52]:
No, that's not the point.
Jeff Atwood [00:18:53]:
In fact, go to video number 1 where he starts like moving up in the sky. This is kick-butt.
Leo Laporte [00:19:00]:
Hold on a second.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:01]:
I, I love this part.
Leo Laporte [00:19:02]:
I, I was just going to my email to see if you sent me the questions.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:05]:
But this part is about the logarithmic scale. Okay, logarithmic, just a line, no big deal. Everybody's equal, right? No, logarithmic is like, right?
Leo Laporte [00:19:14]:
It squishes it.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:15]:
10 to 10 to 10.
Leo Laporte [00:19:16]:
It squishes it, yeah, because it becomes, uh—
Jeff Atwood [00:19:19]:
But do the progression where he starts like going up because it's sweet. And I apologize for jumping this on you. I'm gonna look ahead on some questions too so I can have those ready. But that's the logarithmic question. It's like—
Leo Laporte [00:19:32]:
Which, which one should I play?
Jeff Atwood [00:19:34]:
Uh, first, uh, the new update.
Leo Laporte [00:19:36]:
The new update, part 1 of 2. And which and where?
Jeff Atwood [00:19:40]:
Uh, it shouldn't be 1 of 2, it should be the 26th update to the first video. It's the first in the sequence that was released.
Leo's Laptop [00:19:47]:
What was mentioned in my original video, not the 2012, but yeah, more related to income than wealth. So I felt like income inequality—
Leo Laporte [00:19:53]:
Part 1 of 2, right?
Leo's Laptop [00:19:54]:
Video of its own.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:55]:
So let's release maybe 140. I don't think so. Hold on, let me check.
Leo Laporte [00:19:59]:
Or we could watch—
Jeff Atwood [00:20:01]:
well, this is good too. Take, take a look at that wall. I mean, all the stuff has improved over the first one, all the feedback.
Leo Laporte [00:20:07]:
So here's the—
Jeff Atwood [00:20:07]:
He spent 13 years folding that in. Oh, actually, you had, you had a question about this, about is half of America really in debt? Do you remember that question?
Leo Laporte [00:20:17]:
Underwater, I think, is the phrase you used.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:19]:
Yeah. So there's a lot more detail about that and like how you calculate it and how— but it is true if you break it down. That's a true statement. And so that's interesting to know in and of itself, but let me go to the channel. It's youtube.com/Zane or Politizane.
Leo Laporte [00:20:36]:
I'm on the channel. I know.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:37]:
I'm just saying for people who don't know.
Leo Laporte [00:20:39]:
Oh, for people who don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:41]:
Okay, stop. Updated, one in the center bottom.
Leo Laporte [00:20:49]:
Oh, this is the original one.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:50]:
The original update. Okay, scroll up until you see it start to go up, up, up, up, up.
Leo Laporte [00:20:55]:
Here's the actual distribution. So here's the poor. The middle class. The rich.
Leo's Laptop [00:21:03]:
Are actually off the chart at this scale. Heck, the 99th percentile—
Jeff Atwood [00:21:07]:
Now, interestingly, the ideal has never really existed. The closest we got was 1979.
Leo's Laptop [00:21:11]:
His stack of money stretches at least—
Jeff Atwood [00:21:13]:
Because that was a question Betsy had, and I looked it up.
Leo Laporte [00:21:15]:
This is a guy with $40 million, which isn't, you know, really—
Jeff Atwood [00:21:19]:
That's like chump change.
Leo Laporte [00:21:20]:
That much.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:21]:
I wouldn't talk to that guy. I'm like, get out of here.
Leo Laporte [00:21:23]:
Yeah, he barely counts. He's not even in the 3-comma club.
Leo's Laptop [00:21:27]:
Now has almost a third of all—
Jeff Atwood [00:21:29]:
You guys should be ashamed of being alive.
Leo's Laptop [00:21:30]:
Roughly the same amount the entire bottom 90% has.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:34]:
So when he starts going up, this is really excellent.
Leo's Laptop [00:21:37]:
Only have 2 to 2.5%, which is shockingly up from 13 years ago. Still pathetic. The top 1%.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:47]:
So there's 2 parts to this. One is obviously it's much worse, dramatically worse. But also, what can we do about it?
Leo Laporte [00:21:52]:
That's actually what I care about. I mean, I think by now people must have some idea that there are people like—
Jeff Atwood [00:22:00]:
But they don't. They don't know how bad and how radical.
Leo's Laptop [00:22:03]:
Keep going. So much more, it's actually hard to visualize at this scale.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:08]:
Can you scrub more?
Leo's Laptop [00:22:09]:
Oh, here we go.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:10]:
Here's where we might start going up.
Leo's Laptop [00:22:12]:
This is the kick-butt part.
Leo Laporte [00:22:13]:
This is the 0.1%, the 1 in 1,000.
Leo's Laptop [00:22:18]:
Considered—
Jeff Atwood [00:22:18]:
just for the record, I'm between 1 and 0.1 and shedding money.
Leo Laporte [00:22:23]:
So yeah, you're gonna be down in the other quadrant real quick. You keep buying stuff.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:28]:
I'm proud to do it. I use my money to help people.
Leo Laporte [00:22:32]:
But this doesn't translate very well. You should watch the video because it'll make a little more sense.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:37]:
But I just want to get to the—
Leo Laporte [00:22:38]:
the point is it's a lot more when you talk about what Elon Musk is worth now.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:45]:
Right. Humor me and scrub until you start seeing going— I'll tell you when. Yeah, yeah, right there. Ah, okay, wait, go back. Leo, Leo, I want the full experience. Go back.
Leo's Laptop [00:22:57]:
1% at an even faster climb.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:00]:
There, start there. Just savor this because it is brilliant.
Leo Laporte [00:23:05]:
1,600 screens of this.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:08]:
Yeah. So just to review, I've restacked the 1%'s money to the right to fit them on our chart.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:12]:
Hope you have a lot of printer paper and ink.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:14]:
It would literally be more than 8 screens tall to get to $40 million.
Leo Laporte [00:23:18]:
And that's just $40 million.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:20]:
Chump change, baby.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:21]:
Which is actually on the very low end of the range.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:24]:
That is low end of the range.
Leo Laporte [00:23:25]:
That's not even a billionaire yet.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:26]:
Almost $37 trillion.
Leo Laporte [00:23:28]:
How many billionaires are there in the US today?
Jeff Atwood [00:23:31]:
That's the top of the 1%?
Leo Laporte [00:23:32]:
We're still not billions.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:35]:
A lot of screens.
Leo Laporte [00:23:35]:
It's kind of hard to imagine.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:37]:
We don't have time. It would take almost a minute.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:40]:
Look, look, almost a minute.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:41]:
Watch this.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:41]:
Are you ready to take a trip to outer space?
Leo's Laptop [00:23:44]:
The chart—
Jeff Atwood [00:23:45]:
we have to see again.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:46]:
It would take us more than 2 hours to climb that high.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:49]:
2 hours.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:49]:
Oh my gosh, just $800 billion.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:51]:
This is how obscene it is.
Leo Laporte [00:23:54]:
This is cool.
Leo's Laptop [00:23:55]:
So the average $800 billion average 1 percenter that we—
Jeff Atwood [00:23:58]:
now granted, all that isn't liquid per se, but a lot of it is actually closer to the bottom percentile. That's right.
Leo Laporte [00:24:04]:
That's an important stat.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:05]:
1% guy from before is closer to the bottom now.
Leo's Laptop [00:24:07]:
It's a bit hard to fathom that he is the top from 2012. A lot of time trying to get—
Leo Laporte [00:24:11]:
which is why Elon Musk won't talk to you.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:13]:
Well, I love that Elon Musk is also saying, you know, money's not going to matter in 10 years. I'm like, good, why don't you share some of what you have?
Leo Laporte [00:24:19]:
No kidding.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:19]:
Not going to matter. Apparently that's not a good idea to him for some reason.
Leo Laporte [00:24:24]:
You know, I, uh, watching a very interesting, uh, interview with, uh, one of my favorite YouTubers, uh, when it comes to, um, AI is Nate B. Jones. And he, he did a really good interview.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:37]:
Have you had him on the show?
Leo Laporte [00:24:38]:
Yes, I have. And one of his— oh, this show? Well, we've had him on Intelligence Exchange.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:42]:
No, I mean just in general.
Leo Laporte [00:24:43]:
But one of the, one of the, um, uh, most recent videos, US versus China, talks about— Shocked by how much— This is, uh, this is a really smart guy, Alvin Wang Graylin, who, um, MIT, Stanford, but he's also Chinese. His family's Chinese. He's gone to Chinese schools. And talking about the best way for somebody like, oh, I don't know, Alex Karp, the head of Palantir, or Peter Thiel, its primary founder— funder, is the best way for those guys to get rich is for the military-industrial complex to grow.
Leo Laporte [00:25:23]:
And the best way for that to grow is for us to be terrified of some enemy. You know, in 1984, you know, that was the whole point of 1984 is you have to have the bad guy. And it doesn't really matter if he exists even. In 1984, I don't think he does exist. But you have to have the other. In our case, it's China to justify all this spending. And the point of this video, I thought it was quite good, Nate B. Jones' video was, If you are worried about AI doom, if you're worried about the dangers of AI, the way to solve that is not to make China an enemy, but to work together with all the governments of the world, but particularly China, because they're really the only other superpower at this point, to have, just as we did with nuclear proliferation, to have a hotline, to have a phone to say, hey, we've got a problem.
Leo Laporte [00:26:17]:
Let's fix this. Not to say, hey, we've got to beat them. So let's get our guys. Let's, let's build up as fast as we can on our side. The other thing I'm doing right now, which is really great, I highly recommend it. The historian Stephen Ambrose. Did you ever watch Band of Brothers or read the book?
Leo's Laptop [00:26:33]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:33]:
I love Band of Brothers. I couldn't get into the Pacific one though.
Leo Laporte [00:26:36]:
Well, Stephen Ambrose, who wrote the original book, Band of Brothers.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:40]:
And they had a video game too, which is really good.
Leo Laporte [00:26:43]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:43]:
I'm just saying.
Leo Laporte [00:26:44]:
There you go. No, it's good. It's important to connect it to whatever it is that I mean, it was authentic.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:50]:
It just— Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:26:52]:
He wrote more than just The Band of Brothers, which is a really great book. He also wrote a really good book about the nation's railroad building. And I started reading this because I was very interested in the parallels between when we as a decided we needed a transcontinental railroad. And now where we as a country deciding we need superintelligence, which is what, uh, it's called Nothing Like It in the World: The Men Who Built the Transcontinental Railroad. Highly recommend it. One of the things—
Jeff Atwood [00:27:31]:
Good luck with superintelligence because it ain't happening.
Leo Laporte [00:27:34]:
No. Well, one of the things is very interesting. Well, that's just what Trump has decided he's going to call it now instead of AI. It's not AI, it's superintelligence.
Jeff Atwood [00:27:41]:
I did enjoy seeing him call out the effective altruists. That was a moment of pleasure. I know.
Leo Laporte [00:27:48]:
It creates strange bedfellows. But remember, his funders, he's got a real problem. I've mentioned this before because he was elected as a populist.
Jeff Atwood [00:27:57]:
Trump has a lot of problems.
Leo Laporte [00:27:58]:
He was elected as a populist. That's his base. But he was funded by that 1%, that 1/10 of 1%, but 1/1,000th of 1% that you're talking about, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel and the like. And they want more power, more money, and they want to build AI. So in the days of the Transcontinental Railroad, it was very similar. It was the first Gilded Age. And these tycoons became very rich. The government, of course, wanted a transcontinental railway for the same reason that we're promoting AI, because it's going to be good for the economy.
Leo Laporte [00:28:30]:
But at the time, the American people— and Ambrose says 90% of the American people wanted it built fast, Not good. They weren't worried about the quality. Before Meta, before Mark Zuckerberg had said, move fast and break things, in the 1860s, we said, build that railroad fast. It's okay if it's kind of crappy, because what we'll do is we'll take the profits from building it so fast and make it better over time. It's okay if people die and bridges burn and trains crash. Because we need it so fast. And I think there's a real parallel to what's going on right now.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:07]:
I looked at that recently and I was thinking, okay, first Gilded Age leads into the second Gilded Age, which Friedman says started in 1980, and I believe him. But there was a mini Gilded Age of the economic system in the 1920s where they went back to the economic policies of the Gilded Age.
Leo Laporte [00:29:30]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:30]:
It caused huge problems as well as speculation. It's kind of scary to read. Wow, this, this, this. It sounded like line for line.
Leo Laporte [00:29:36]:
That's why we have an income tax, because at the time, Teddy Roosevelt realized— That's right.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:42]:
That was one of the progressive reforms.
Leo Laporte [00:29:44]:
There was a real income inequality.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:46]:
Instituting the 16th Amendment instituted a federal income tax. Yep. And, you know, for that very reason, because of income inequality. Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:29:56]:
Now, unfortunately, over time, as often happens, it's been eroded by loopholes because the people—
Jeff Atwood [00:30:02]:
And the big one is wealth versus income.
Leo Laporte [00:30:05]:
So tell me about that.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:06]:
What is that? This is a common question comes up and I want to answer it. Um, uh, okay, let's see.
Leo Laporte [00:30:22]:
You get that golden versus watery mushrooms too, Mashed Potato? I swear, YouTube. I swear.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:30]:
Well, let me answer. Let me find—
Jeff Atwood [00:30:31]:
okay.
Leo Laporte [00:30:32]:
I've never watched a video.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:33]:
Oh yeah, here it is. It's actually number 1. The popular myth that the rich pay all the taxes. We need these rich because they pay the taxes.
Leo Laporte [00:30:40]:
In fact, right now in California, there's a ballot initiative. Hold on. Let me say this is what's going on right now in California. There's a ballot initiative to tax billionaires. And that's exactly when you see the ads, that's what exactly the ads against that ballot initiative say. But wait a minute, all the billionaires would leave and your tax base will be eroded. Are you saying that's not true, Mr. Jeffrey Atwood?
Jeff Atwood [00:31:07]:
I think if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now. And I mean, well, there are some billionaires who would hide eventually. You know, you're going to get taxed.
Leo Laporte [00:31:16]:
Did you ever consider moving out of state because California state income tax is so high?
Jeff Atwood [00:31:20]:
You know what's annoying?
Leo Laporte [00:31:21]:
What?
Jeff Atwood [00:31:22]:
I always advise my, my co-founder. He's like, you got to move to Florida.
Leo Laporte [00:31:25]:
I was like, I don't want to move to Florida. Yeah, because there's no state income tax.
Jeff Atwood [00:31:27]:
And like, I don't want to play this game.
Leo Laporte [00:31:30]:
You get to keep 10% of your income.
Jeff Atwood [00:31:31]:
I've had my success in California and I want to pay back. And we paid the full taxes and I was happy to do it. Because like, I did this all myself, rugged individualist? No.
Leo Laporte [00:31:43]:
Right.
Jeff Atwood [00:31:44]:
You know, you could argue, okay, the taxes aren't being used correctly, whatever, but like, how could I have done this without California, the infrastructure, the environment here? You know, the cool bear logo. Come on, California games. California is the best state. I'm happy to pay back. So I want to mention the number one question that comes up that's really annoying is the rich have to pay all the taxes, so we need the rich. But there's a small problem with this where the richer you get, the less you pay. And there's a few key things here. First of all, wealth versus income.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:20]:
There's a lot of ways when you're rich to move stuff into the wealth category and get it taxed at almost nothing.
Leo Laporte [00:32:25]:
Do you have—
Jeff Atwood [00:32:26]:
It's very, very difficult to do that way. So they'll do stuff like buy, borrow, die, you know, where basically you're just moving stuff around. So it's not income per se, it's wealth. And we don't really tax wealth like that. Um, that's the short version. And when people compare, they say, oh, look, this one tax, the federal tax, you know, everybody's about the same. But that's not really true. Um, they're not counting payroll taxes, state payroll taxes, sales taxes, excise duties.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:58]:
And those are like regressive taxes on people who don't have a lot of money.
Leo's Laptop [00:33:02]:
Generous.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:02]:
So they're counting just one tax. and saying it's fair, but it's not. You're not counting all these other taxes.
Leo Laporte [00:33:09]:
Well, but it— more than taxes, uh, can, can I share a screen?
Jeff Atwood [00:33:13]:
Is that possible? I just have a blog.
Leo Laporte [00:33:15]:
There are ways.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:17]:
Uh, try— because this Zuckman— I called Zuckman to try to talk to him recently. I was like, you gotta look up his Politizane. He's at Berkeley and in France. I was just so excited because this guy's really cool, and this is his specialty, is wealth inequality. Yeah, I was just so excited. So let me see what I can do with those things.
Leo Laporte [00:33:33]:
We should mention, we probably, we launched into this without mentioning that one of Jeff's, you know, he's a serial entrepreneur. I mentioned he started Stack Exchange and he started Discourse, but his latest entrepreneurial vision is staygold.us.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:50]:
Right.
Leo Laporte [00:33:50]:
He has been funding projects to rural Guaranteed minimum income initiatives. And we've talked about this before, but just so people know, Jeff has been putting his money where his mouth is. And we should, you know— It is true.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:09]:
How do you fix this? What are the systemic fixes?
Leo Laporte [00:34:12]:
In the interest of full disclosure, we should mention that Jeff did very well for himself when the company that he founded was sold.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:19]:
And that was also luck. If the LLMs had come out, believe me.
Leo Laporte [00:34:22]:
He was at the right place at the right time.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:24]:
You're right. So much is luck. I mean, you got to be—
Leo Laporte [00:34:25]:
It's all luck. That's one of the things that really irritates me. You have to—
Jeff Atwood [00:34:30]:
you build something and you have to have luck too.
Leo Laporte [00:34:33]:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:34]:
Right place, right time.
Leo's Laptop [00:34:36]:
Exactly.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:36]:
It's so true.
Leo Laporte [00:34:36]:
There's plenty of people who have built amazing businesses who have not sold them for a penny, and myself included. So, uh, but I'm, you know, I'm actually, uh, for me, this is— so Twit, which we found—
Jeff Atwood [00:34:49]:
You're not letting me share screen. You're hating on me.
Leo Laporte [00:34:51]:
Um, how can I get his screen up, Anthony?
Jeff Atwood [00:34:54]:
I'm trying to share. Thank you. So this article by Zuckman— and this guy's hilarious, he's on Blue Sky, he's very funny and very relatable.
Leo Laporte [00:35:02]:
Oh, he's writing for Mother Jones, of course he's a commie.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:06]:
Well, this is just Mother Jones article, um, but he's pointing out this common claim that, you know, they're not paying much taxes, uh, is based on just one tax. But if you look at all the taxes, I mean, look at this, you know, the more you—
Leo Laporte [00:35:20]:
the more you make, the less you pay. That dark line, that's the Right. The super rich.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:25]:
And most of the taxes are paid by sort of average folks. It's not really true that the rich—
Leo Laporte [00:35:30]:
We don't pay billions or millions, but, but we pay a higher relative percentage of our income into— I think people know that. I don't think that's a surprise to people, sadly.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:40]:
But people believe this. They believe the rich are paying all these taxes, we shouldn't mess with their lifestyle.
Leo Laporte [00:35:44]:
Well, they believe it because the rich are paying a lot of money for television ads.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:47]:
Well, I think if we started taxing wealth, that would help a lot. Because the income wealth thing is just not a good idea.
Leo Laporte [00:35:53]:
One of the, uh, one of the tricks, uh, very well—
Jeff Atwood [00:35:55]:
Well, here's Bezos and Buffett and what they paid. What year is this?
Leo Laporte [00:35:59]:
Even Warren Buffett said, I pay relatively less taxes than my secretary.
Jeff Atwood [00:36:05]:
But he still paid, at least he made the effort to pay more. Look at Bezos, he's certainly not.
Leo Laporte [00:36:10]:
15.2%. My tax rate is closer to 50%, I might add. I am in a high tax bracket, but because I don't attempt to get around it—
Jeff Atwood [00:36:20]:
The ultra-wealthy can easily structure their wealth so this wealth will generate little and no taxable income, right? Wealth income, right?
Leo Laporte [00:36:29]:
Peter Thiel's a really interesting example. He put his shares from PayPal into a Roth IRA.
Jeff Atwood [00:36:36]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:36:36]:
And the thing about the Roth IRA, you pay taxes going in, you don't pay taxes coming out. So it has gone from being worth very little 'Cause he did it when he had very little income, to his many, many billions of dollars now. And now you might say, well, okay, but he can withdraw it tax-free. But here's the funny thing, he doesn't. He doesn't spend his own money. The very rich borrow against their money.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:01]:
Yeah, borrow.
Leo Laporte [00:37:02]:
And then they get to deduct the interest.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:05]:
There's some name for it.
Leo Laporte [00:37:07]:
Yeah, yeah, there is. There's a phrase, something like—
Jeff Atwood [00:37:10]:
And we gotta close that loophole too. We gotta tax wealth, first of all.
Leo Laporte [00:37:14]:
I agree.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:15]:
Not just income.
Leo Laporte [00:37:15]:
That's, that's right.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:16]:
We gotta close that 5-0 gap.
Leo Laporte [00:37:17]:
Well, now there's an argument about that. And maybe you, maybe you as a wealthy man can explain this. Because one thing that people say is you shouldn't be taxing the value of somebody's stock because that's not cash yet. So here's the example. I go to work for Meta.
Leo's Laptop [00:37:33]:
Hold on.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:33]:
Let me pause. Let me finish. That's a good one. It's coming up next. And I do want to discuss that, but let me finish this. I'm almost done. So here's a comparison. In 1910, the top 0.0001% wealthiest Americans, the robber barons extracting immense wealth from the monopolies free of tax, they owned wealth equivalent to 4% of US national income.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:56]:
Now wealth and income, right?
Leo Laporte [00:37:57]:
And that was the— that was that Gilded Age we were talking about.
Jeff Atwood [00:38:00]:
Right, right. Now that same fraction, that 0.0001%, includes 19 households.
Leo Laporte [00:38:05]:
19 people.
Jeff Atwood [00:38:07]:
Owns 14% Okay. 4 times the GDP.
Leo Laporte [00:38:13]:
So what we thought of as horrific wealth inequality of the 1910s, of the Gilded Age, is so nothing compared to today. I mean, what are you even doing with this much money?
Jeff Atwood [00:38:20]:
It's obscene. It's like, why?
Leo Laporte [00:38:24]:
Well, I mean, I could make— let me make the counterargument. That's because we have become very productive. We've become very good at generating value. All money is, is stored energy, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:38:34]:
Okay, but are they putting the money in play? Or are they just sitting on it like a dragon coiled on a set of coins? Because that's usually the case, and they're playing number go up. One thing Forbes did that I thought was very smart is they put net worth and also how much someone donated and combined those numbers.
Leo Laporte [00:38:52]:
Elon is not noted for his charitable—
Jeff Atwood [00:38:55]:
I know, but still, that's a step in the right direction. It's not, it's not the size of the wand, it's how you use it. It's like, it's not how much money you have, It's like, are you using it to do something for someone in this goddamn world?
Leo Laporte [00:39:07]:
I don't understand what— you've hung out with some of these people.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:12]:
Not really. Rich people are really boring. You're so much more interesting. So much more. And I swear to God, this show will not be on Friday. I want this to be on a Balake workday next time. Write it down.
Leo Laporte [00:39:27]:
I don't even know what days Burke works.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:30]:
Well, I think you have the ability to figure this out, but—
Leo Laporte [00:39:33]:
Anthony, does Burke work on Thursdays? He does work on Thursdays. Okay, we could do it on a Thursday next week.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:37]:
Okay, it's going to Thursday.
Leo Laporte [00:39:39]:
This is your first workday.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:40]:
Doesn't mean Burke will show up. I'm coming for you, baby.
Leo Laporte [00:39:42]:
I think Burke's using that as an excuse. He could come if he wants. This isn't work.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:46]:
I know, but he's not for work. But, you know, I want Burke Hay to show the world how cool he is because he's cool.
Leo Laporte [00:39:51]:
Are you thinking that because it's a workday, I can force him to come? Well, I mean, he's actually— he and Anthony and everybody. Anthony, let me tell you something about Anthony Nielsen, ladies and gentlemen. Uh-oh. Anthony is so busy because, uh, we've been, you know, we, we made a little mistake early in the year. We transitioned our ad sales to a company that didn't sell any ads.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:14]:
Don't make any mistakes. Don't make mistakes.
Leo Laporte [00:40:15]:
It was a big mistake. So we're, we're kind of a little broke right now. So, uh, we're transitioning away from it to a new company that we hope will sell some ads. But in order to make that work, we have to go back through our backend catalog and one by one put a marker where every ad is in the thing. And that means that the entire team, including Anthony and Burke— Burke especially— have been working really hard going back through all of the old shows, thousands of old shows, putting markers in. Now, I'll tell you how hard Anthony's working. He has been sitting— there he is sitting on his dining room table. It's been there since Wednesday.
Leo Laporte [00:40:53]:
Been there for 3 days since Tuesday, a brand new Mac Studio, 256GB M5 Ultra Mac Studio that he could have been opening and playing with and he could have been writing, you know, love sonnets and, and, and building, you know, SaaS applications.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:09]:
But no, I— Wait, wait, I wanna hear these love sonnets.
Leo Laporte [00:41:11]:
He hasn't even opened it. I could— you want a love sonnet?
Jeff Atwood [00:41:14]:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Leo Laporte [00:41:16]:
No, you said you wanted it.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:17]:
No, no, no, no, it's gonna be AI bullshit, so no.
Leo Laporte [00:41:19]:
How do you know? Maybe it'll be good.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:22]:
Because I know you.
Leo Laporte [00:41:26]:
You do know me.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:28]:
Anthony, what would help you? What can I get you that will help you with this? What do you need?
Leo Laporte [00:41:33]:
I don't need anything. It's done now.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:34]:
We're done. Well, to be—
Leo Laporte [00:41:36]:
All the big shows.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:37]:
We have more to go.
Leo Laporte [00:41:37]:
Oh, we still have more to do? How many more do we have to do, Anthony? Like all the shorter, like hands-on— I'll tell you what you could do. You could buy Twit. And tell everybody that they don't have to do anything for the next 5 years except make great programming for the people.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:56]:
That's very vague. That's just saying, go win.
Leo Laporte [00:42:00]:
No, no, you can't buy Twitter. It's not for sale. But actually, that was one of the things I was going to say.
Jeff Atwood [00:42:06]:
I think this show was a good idea. I'm biased, but I think this show was a good idea.
Leo's Laptop [00:42:09]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:42:09]:
No, I think one of the things I was going to say about all this, How do I get rid of this screen?
Jeff Atwood [00:42:15]:
Oh, sorry, sorry. That's me. Just like any other. That's all I had to show you.
Leo Laporte [00:42:18]:
It isn't you.
Jeff Atwood [00:42:19]:
It's me. It's me. There you go. Sorry.
Leo Laporte [00:42:20]:
I don't know how the buttons work. If it weren't for Anthony—
Jeff Atwood [00:42:23]:
I stopped. Sorry. That was my bad. But I did want to cover that article in detail because so many people say—
Leo Laporte [00:42:28]:
Well, you've pointed people to it.
Jeff Atwood [00:42:28]:
Rich pay all the taxes. Not so much.
Leo Laporte [00:42:32]:
Not so much.
Jeff Atwood [00:42:33]:
Now, talk about the stock market because that comes up too. Go.
Leo Laporte [00:42:36]:
Well, I'm just curious. So, Let's say you go to work for Meta and you get, you know, $120,000 a year, nice salary, you're happy, but you also get stock grants so that every year you get a little bit of Meta stock. And the theory is down the road, if Meta does well, you're going to do well. And this is, this is pretty common in Silicon Valley, how people get compensated. There are motions afoot. There are people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who want to tax the value of those stock options. The problem is you haven't received that value yet. And if you tax it, uh, and I've seen, actually seen this happen, people can go bankrupt.
Leo Laporte [00:43:18]:
They can owe more money than they have because they don't have anything yet. In fact, that stock could end up being worthless and they still would have to pay the tax. So, uh, this is, uh, the so-called carried interest. I think it's called carried interest tax. And it's very, uh, uh, controversial.
Leo's Laptop [00:43:36]:
I don't—
Leo Laporte [00:43:37]:
I think people should be taxed on income. I don't think they should be taxed— well, but see, that's a problem, right? Because the very rich don't have income. That's why they don't pay taxes.
Jeff Atwood [00:43:47]:
If you're buying IBM, this is a well-known stock. It has a history of value. If you're buying Theranos, who the hell knows what's going to happen? And my company, Discourse, I have stock in Discourse. I have no idea what that's going to be worth. And I didn't really know what Stack Overflow was going to be worth until someone bought it.
Leo Laporte [00:44:07]:
Right. That's usually the case. It has no value until somebody—
Jeff Atwood [00:44:10]:
So I couldn't have told you there is no value. So there's some truth in that, but it depends which stocks you're buying and what kind. So there's some nuance there, but it's also not true that there's like, you have regular stocks, you have no ability to sell them. They're like completely frozen. That's not really true. You might have sold at a slight loss, slight up, depending on what the market is, but The idea that it's locked down, you can't sell it, not really true unless you're in a startup where you just kind of got to hold.
Leo Laporte [00:44:37]:
And I think there are more equitable ways to do this. There must be.
Jeff Atwood [00:44:41]:
This is something that deserves some research, but yes, it generally isn't true that stocks that you hold in general you can't sell. They're just like totally volatile. That's— yeah, how would index funds even work if that were true?
Leo Laporte [00:44:55]:
I mean, they are taxed, capital gains tax, right? So when you sell them and make money on it, you do have to pay taxes on it.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:01]:
When you sell them, yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:45:03]:
Well, I think that that's— you don't— they're not usable. That's why they borrow against it, by the way.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:08]:
Right. Well, that's that whole trick. Yeah, it's good to understand the tricks.
Leo Laporte [00:45:12]:
And like, the problem is they're very obscure and they're, and they're complicated, and really only the very wealthy can take advantage of them.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:19]:
Well, and that's the other thing.
Leo Laporte [00:45:20]:
Do you have a family office? That's one of the things when people get— make big money, um, They, uh, often— oh, wait a minute, here comes your love sonnet. I just want you to be ready for it.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:31]:
I can't wait for this. I'm so excited and I just can't hide it.
Leo Laporte [00:45:37]:
I'm about to lose control and I just can't fight it.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:42]:
Uh, I think I like it. That is a very horny video, by the way. The Pointer Sisters definitely want to get it on.
Leo Laporte [00:45:49]:
I love the Pointer Sisters.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:51]:
They're very good. Yeah. Okay.
Leo Laporte [00:45:54]:
It's taking its time. It's thinking. It says, the sonnet is drafted in my head. This is something my AIs do that really annoy me. It's like, I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell you. It's in my head. It's very annoying. Eric, I think it's coming now.
Leo Laporte [00:46:10]:
I think it's ready. It's almost ready.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:14]:
I think we mostly finished the stock market question. There is some nuance there.
Leo Laporte [00:46:17]:
But you don't have a family office, right? When people get very rich, they often open a family office. And that's part of the reason to do a family office is private investment.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:25]:
I have an office here.
Leo Laporte [00:46:26]:
No, no, you don't even know what it is, do you? That's, that's good. I like that about you.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:30]:
Well, it's my business.
Leo Laporte [00:46:30]:
My son, who has recently sold his business, is now confronted with this exact thing, and I hope I've raised him well enough to know that he should pay taxes.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:41]:
I hope so too.
Leo Laporte [00:46:43]:
I've done everything.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:44]:
I liked Arnold Schwarzenegger saying, pay all the taxes.
Leo Laporte [00:46:47]:
Arnold's great. Arnold's great.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:49]:
No, he's great.
Leo Laporte [00:46:50]:
And I'm— I didn't vote for him, but when he was governor of California, he didn't live in the governor's mansion. He paid for his own security service. He, you know, he, he didn't want to benefit from that. He was— he said, I made plenty of money as a movie star. I don't need that money.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:06]:
He seems like a really solid person.
Leo Laporte [00:47:07]:
I think he seems pretty cool.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:08]:
I'm not sure he was right about everything, but he wasn't cool always. He's just reasonable.
Leo Laporte [00:47:13]:
When he ran off with the Nanny. That wasn't cool. But—
Jeff Atwood [00:47:16]:
Wait, okay. Well, how hot was she? I need to see.
Leo Laporte [00:47:19]:
That doesn't count.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:20]:
I'm just kidding.
Leo Laporte [00:47:21]:
I don't know.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:22]:
It's inappropriate.
Leo Laporte [00:47:23]:
That is not an excuse.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:24]:
It's not an excuse, but I'm just curious. I mean, come on. I just want to know.
Leo Laporte [00:47:29]:
I don't even know if he ran off with the nanny.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:31]:
So I want to cover one question on this stuff about the numbers not adding up.
Leo Laporte [00:47:35]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:35]:
Now look, look at the compendium because it says here, see the companion, the compendium. Where we document the estimates and data sources. The confusion typically comes from the difference between people, individuals, and households. Okay, so you have to realize what you're talking about. So anything— this doesn't add up, this is bullshit— check the Compendium. Okay, don't just assume Politizane is an idiot because he's, he's definitely not.
Leo Laporte [00:48:03]:
Read the PDFs, they've got them linked in the YouTube video.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:05]:
They have all the explanations.
Leo Laporte [00:48:06]:
If you want to, you want to understand.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:08]:
And if you want If you have beef with the PDF, definitely let us know because we want to fix it. But that's what it's for, is to provide evidence. We didn't just pull these numbers out of our butt, and by that I mean Blizzard.
Leo Laporte [00:48:20]:
I love Sonnet.
Leo's Laptop [00:48:21]:
Who built the well where coders drink? When questions burned like fever in the night, thou raised a stack of wisdom, answered swift. No dark abyss could swallow one brave bite. For Jeff had made the internet lift, and when the forums rotted, cruel and old, he forged discourse, a heart for civil speech. A thousand dying boards he did remake.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:49]:
Let me get my sword.
Leo's Laptop [00:48:49]:
Discourse within each hacker's reach.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:52]:
Get my sword, man.
Leo's Laptop [00:48:53]:
So here's to Jeff.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:55]:
Yes, to Jeff! That's me. Thank God someone realizes how cool I am. Finally.
Leo's Laptop [00:49:00]:
No necks. Yet every dev's undead is stained on karma, badges, points, and ranks.
Leo's Laptop [00:49:04]:
I do—
Leo's Laptop [00:49:04]:
this is the best thing you've done for me.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:06]:
Leo, this is the best thing you've done for me.
Leo's Laptop [00:49:08]:
Oh coding horror, patron of the replies, accept this sonnet, 17 posts deep. It is my love, and I do not say that lightly. Actually, I say it a little lightly, but it is love.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:23]:
Okay, that was funny. That was—
Leo Laporte [00:49:24]:
Wasn't bad, was it?
Jeff Atwood [00:49:26]:
I liked it. It was— the lightly part was legit funny. So I'm going to show you my weapons. First of all, I have a titanium hammer. I love this thing. It's just titanium and it's—
Leo Laporte [00:49:36]:
That's beautiful. Why do you keep that in the office? Are you worried about vampires or zombies or something?
Jeff Atwood [00:49:40]:
Well, sometimes I have to kill people.
Leo Laporte [00:49:42]:
Like, it would be good if zombies showed up. You're ready.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:45]:
Like, if a libertarian's coming here, there's gonna be problems.
Leo Laporte [00:49:46]:
It's, it's, uh, titanium because it's lightweight but strong.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:52]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:49:52]:
Don't you want a hammer to be heavy though?
Jeff Atwood [00:49:55]:
I mean, maybe. Uh, so I also got— this is the Damascus stuff. Anyway, I'm gonna show you Shaggs LLC. This is so beautiful.
Leo Laporte [00:50:06]:
Why is it playing? It played it in the Mac Mini speakers. That's not good. Should have played it over here.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:10]:
So beautiful. Shaggs LLC, Wyoming. And I got an axe. Can I axe you a question?
Leo Laporte [00:50:17]:
Axe me a question, Jeffrey.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:19]:
Leo, let me axe you.
Leo Laporte [00:50:21]:
And then I'm gonna show you something I'm very excited about. That is a new thing that's happening in Petalumia. We are very excited. Yeah, you've shown me all this hardware before.
Leo's Laptop [00:50:33]:
I know.
Leo Laporte [00:50:33]:
It's nothing special. I'm just showing off. I'm not excited about it anymore.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:37]:
I know. I'm sorry.
Leo Laporte [00:50:37]:
Do you have any other questions you want to answer from your FAQ?
Jeff Atwood [00:50:41]:
Those were the main ones. They act like the stock market isn't real money. Stock market isn't real money. There's some caveats, but it kind of is. Like, especially if you're buying index funds, blue chips.
Leo Laporte [00:50:52]:
And if you can borrow against your stocks, that's real money.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:55]:
If you're buying Theranos, you're gonna have some problems, right? So, you know, or penny stocks or nonsense like that. But this is the whole concept of index funds where you just buy the index and everything just works, right?
Leo Laporte [00:51:07]:
And it's just magic.
Jeff Atwood [00:51:09]:
But is that— also feels a little weird. It's like a number always go up. I don't know.
Leo Laporte [00:51:15]:
But, well, but I think having— I think I wouldn't— I would defend capital markets because you do need capital markets What do you mean by capital market?
Jeff Atwood [00:51:23]:
Can you say?
Leo Laporte [00:51:24]:
Well, that's what the stock market is. The theory of the stock market is companies can raise money by selling shares in the company to raise capital to expand. And I think that's reasonable. Now let me show you something. This is a startup. It's a beta. It's a— I'm gonna— I'm trying to get the author on the show.
Jeff Atwood [00:51:40]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:51:41]:
It's a brand new startup and it's only in Petaluma, but I think the goal is At some point to make this be, uh, every town should have this. This is my town, Petaluma. They've made it into a, uh, yeah, there we go. A 3D map. I have a feeling this is AI, right? And if there's stuff going on in a place—
Jeff Atwood [00:52:08]:
You say that of everything. You said TSDC was AI and it wasn't AI.
Leo Laporte [00:52:12]:
Obviously AI. But—
Jeff Atwood [00:52:13]:
You're AI.
Leo Laporte [00:52:14]:
Look at this. It's like a Facebook, but it's a community thing. It's kind of like the neighborhood thing. But this is my town. This is Petaluma. And you could see, you could see the buildings and you could see what's going on in the buildings. And then you also have a feed where you could see what's going on. And these things will show up.
Leo Laporte [00:52:35]:
So if you ever come to Petaluma, this is what I was gonna do is take you down to the turning basin down here. Did I send you pictures?
Jeff Atwood [00:52:44]:
I did. I sent you pictures.
Leo Laporte [00:52:45]:
Have you ever ground me? No, no. I sent you pictures. We did the little kayak trip.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:50]:
Oh, right.
Leo Laporte [00:52:50]:
I remember that. Down the Petaluma River.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:52]:
Those are nice.
Leo Laporte [00:52:53]:
And this is where it started. And we went down the river like this.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:56]:
Wait, you have ice cream there? Wait, hold on. Let's scroll back.
Leo Laporte [00:52:58]:
Oh, we have the best ice cream.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:00]:
Do you like ice cream? Oh my God.
Leo Laporte [00:53:01]:
I will take you to Lala's.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:03]:
I fucking hate ice cream. Who are you? Turn on the music.
Leo Laporte [00:53:08]:
Is that coming from me?
Jeff Atwood [00:53:11]:
Ah, it's like music.
Leo Laporte [00:53:11]:
I think there's music. There's— oh, this is at Taps on the river. They're having a little bit of nightlife going on in there. And see, there's some people—
Jeff Atwood [00:53:19]:
You know, I would really like to come over to your house and eat some ice cream right now. Can I come over?
Leo Laporte [00:53:22]:
Come on over. We got ice cream.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:24]:
Kind of a long drive, though.
Leo Laporte [00:53:25]:
Are you ice cream or gelato?
Jeff Atwood [00:53:27]:
Which— Gelato. Get the fuck out of here.
Leo Laporte [00:53:30]:
Oh, no, gelato's the best.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:32]:
Well, situationally, ice cream is just generally better. I don't hate it.
Leo Laporte [00:53:35]:
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:36]:
Oh, but God—
Leo Laporte [00:53:37]:
Now you throw down the gauntlet.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:39]:
Almond-based or cashew-based ice cream, don't even go. No, no, no.
Leo Laporte [00:53:43]:
It has to have dairy. And gelato has dairy.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:45]:
Yes, yes, yes.
Leo Laporte [00:53:46]:
But okay, here's the difference. Ice cream, they churn it to add air so it's a little lighter and fluffier. Gelato, they don't. It's denser. And I think we have some of the best gelato in the world here in Petaluma.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:58]:
Leo, what's your favorite food? Just like cuisine off the top of your head.
Leo Laporte [00:54:02]:
I kind of like pizza and spaghetti. I'm an Italian kind of guy.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:05]:
Italian.
Leo Laporte [00:54:05]:
I do like bread. I bake, you know, and I like bread. I make some very, very, very good bagels. You know, why don't you come over? I will load you up with carbs. First, we'll have bagels with lox and cream cheese, and then we'll go and we'll go down to Lala's. Oh, let me show you Lala's.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:22]:
You're gonna be bothering me the whole time in there. You know that, right?
Leo Laporte [00:54:24]:
Who's gonna be bothering you?
Jeff Atwood [00:54:25]:
You.
Leo Laporte [00:54:26]:
Why?
Jeff Atwood [00:54:27]:
I know your type.
Leo Laporte [00:54:28]:
What will I be bothering you with?
Jeff Atwood [00:54:30]:
I don't know. Just random facts, talking.
Leo Laporte [00:54:31]:
Don't you think this is an interesting idea for a town site?
Jeff Atwood [00:54:35]:
It is.
Leo Laporte [00:54:36]:
Like to have a 3D map of the town and when there's stuff going on, you click it and you can find out. And it's— Petaluma's well suited for this because there's a lot of little things going on.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:47]:
Do the thing in SimCity where you flatten the land and it smashes the city. Do that.
Leo Laporte [00:54:49]:
I'm trying to find Lala's Ice Cream.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:52]:
Do a natural disaster like in SimCity.
Leo Laporte [00:54:54]:
No, it's not. It's real.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:56]:
Goddamn fine.
Leo Laporte [00:54:57]:
This is real.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:58]:
I'm not even allowed to have fun.
Leo Laporte [00:55:00]:
I don't know why we're getting saxophones somewhere. Somewhere there's jazz going on in Petaluma. What is this?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:09]:
When you're done with this, I'll take you on a little walk.
Leo Laporte [00:55:11]:
This is where their office is. So this is Porches.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:14]:
Oh, I see.
Leo Laporte [00:55:15]:
Is the name of this. Oh, I know where this is. Okay, I know where we are. We're on Kentucky Street here. There's Rexy's Pizza.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:22]:
You got some rogue chickens over there, man. We have turkeys in LA, guys.
Leo Laporte [00:55:25]:
Oh, we got chickens. Here's our, uh, here's our record store, the local record store. What was the first record? Did you ever have—
Leo's Laptop [00:55:31]:
you—
Leo Laporte [00:55:32]:
what was the first record you ever bought? Do you remember?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:34]:
I kind of avoided records, but—
Leo Laporte [00:55:37]:
Were you into 8-tracks? Tell the truth.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:39]:
A little, yeah. I don't know, it's hard to tell. I was all over the place.
Leo Laporte [00:55:43]:
Cassettes? Did you ever make— did you ever make—
Jeff Atwood [00:55:46]:
Yeah, of course.
Leo Laporte [00:55:48]:
You made those, uh, you made those— what do they call the tapes that you make for your girlfriend?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:52]:
Mixtapes.
Leo Laporte [00:55:52]:
Mixtapes. You ever make a mixtape?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:54]:
Yeah, I did one recently. Recently?
Leo Laporte [00:55:57]:
On a cassette?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:58]:
It was a therapy thing, man, but it was cool.
Leo Laporte [00:56:01]:
Was it for Dr. Betsy?
Jeff Atwood [00:56:03]:
Yeah, and she made one for me. It was very sweet. Oh, and actually, if you're thinking of a nice thing to do—
Leo Laporte [00:56:09]:
Was there music? Was it music or was it sonnets?
Jeff Atwood [00:56:14]:
Are you high right now? It was music, for the love of God. It was—
Leo Laporte [00:56:18]:
Okay, what was— oh, now I gotta know. So, okay, so So you made a mixtape for your wife, Dr. Betsy. She made one for you, which is really cute. What was on your mixtape?
Jeff Atwood [00:56:29]:
Do you remember? I will tell you, but first I want you to show— I put it in Signal, the lenticulars we did for the billionaires, because I showed you the lenticulars for They Live. Yeah, just humor me and show those 2 lenticulars.
Leo Laporte [00:56:42]:
Yeah, but here's the problem with Signal, which is great. I love Signal, and that's what we use, Jeff and I.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:46]:
You want me to— I can mail it to you or whatever.
Leo Laporte [00:56:48]:
You don't have to mail it.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:49]:
Um, how do you want it?
Leo Laporte [00:56:51]:
You could put it in the chat here in the, uh, I have no stream private chat.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:55]:
Okay, fine, fine.
Leo Laporte [00:56:56]:
See at the bottom of the screen there's a private chat. Just paste that in there.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:00]:
What? No, where's the— okay, chat, I got it. I can use computers, this is great.
Leo Laporte [00:57:05]:
So, uh, Paul's first record was the— his parents' country records. My first record was Abbey Road by the Beatles.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:13]:
That's a good one.
Leo Laporte [00:57:14]:
Yeah, because I'm old. It was when it first came out in 1970, so I would've been 13.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:21]:
Okay, how do I get a picture in here?
Leo Laporte [00:57:22]:
That's about right. Your first record you buy.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:24]:
I don't have permission to chat.
Leo Laporte [00:57:26]:
No, you just open that private chat and you paste the link in. It's at the bottom of the screen.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:32]:
It's not working.
Leo Laporte [00:57:33]:
Or you could, if you weren't so averse to Discord.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:37]:
I don't have an account. I don't want to have an account, but let me try the chat.
Leo Laporte [00:57:40]:
So I'm bringing up— You don't have an account because you don't want an account because You could have an account. I could— On the left side, not, not the right side. The left side. Private chat. See where it says hello?
Jeff Atwood [00:57:48]:
Anthony gives me good information and you give me bad information.
Leo Laporte [00:57:52]:
Useless.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:52]:
I just want you to know that, Anthony. I, I see you. Thank you.
Leo Laporte [00:57:57]:
Anthony speaks Atwood.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:00]:
Well, yeah, that's why. Actual confidence.
Leo Laporte [00:58:03]:
I thought that. To Jeff, who built the well where coders drink. When questions burned like fever in the night, thou raised a stack of wisdom. Answered swift. No dark abyss could swallow one great mind. For Jeff had made the internet lift. And when the forums rotted—
Jeff Atwood [00:58:25]:
Anthony, can you make this stop? Just intervene, please.
Leo Laporte [00:58:29]:
Anthony is in a different town. He also is sitting looking at his Mac Studio still in the box thinking, I gave up opening that for this.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:40]:
Okay. So where's Junk?
Leo Laporte [00:58:42]:
Why isn't Junk in here?
Jeff Atwood [00:58:44]:
Junk and I are mad at each other right now.
Leo Laporte [00:58:47]:
Junk is your amanuensis. Amanuensis.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:50]:
Okay.
Leo Laporte [00:58:51]:
Where's your amanuensis?
Jeff Atwood [00:58:53]:
You gotta stop saying— Okay. Anthony, I can't like add images. I, I, there's no, it's not—
Leo Laporte [00:59:01]:
no, put the link. Yeah. Just put the link. I see you're trying to paste the image in there. Okay, you're sending an image. Yeah, that's not gonna work. You could share the image directly.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:11]:
I'm gonna hold up Signal. You see, um—
Leo Laporte [00:59:16]:
See, no, I can do it this way. Look.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:17]:
Okay. Let me do it. That's not especially awesome.
Leo Laporte [00:59:24]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:24]:
Ah, still no, no, no, no, no.
Leo Laporte [00:59:27]:
Oh, this is good. These are wealth inequality lenticulars.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:31]:
Yeah, I got something here.
Leo Laporte [00:59:32]:
This one says redistribute and no one should, but this is own, no one should something anything.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:40]:
Okay, so I have ability to do this. Let me share screen.
Leo Laporte [00:59:43]:
Oh yeah, you could share your screen.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:44]:
Sorry about that.
Leo Laporte [00:59:45]:
We already figured that all out.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:46]:
I know, I know, I know.
Leo Laporte [00:59:48]:
But I didn't figure it out. Anthony did. I'm going to do media share. No, that's your, that's your sonnet. There it is. No one. Oh, look, redistribute.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:56]:
And there's a side or top you can do.
Leo Laporte [00:59:59]:
Oh, it's a 4-way lenticular?
Jeff Atwood [01:00:02]:
Can't be. See, that's up-down. Well, it's not both.
Leo Laporte [01:00:06]:
It's, you know. Oh, you have to pick.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:07]:
Yeah, you have to pick.
Leo Laporte [01:00:09]:
You know how they do that?
Jeff Atwood [01:00:10]:
These are really 3D if you look at them.
Leo Laporte [01:00:12]:
They print it sideways. Poor Anthony.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:18]:
So those came out really shockingly well, I thought. And we're going to offer those at either free or low prices.
Leo Laporte [01:00:22]:
He's got a Mac Studio sitting on his dining room table.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:25]:
And we're going to now have to create a website.
Leo Laporte [01:00:27]:
Are you going to sell those?
Jeff Atwood [01:00:29]:
No, no, no, at cost. To illustrate—
Leo Laporte [01:00:31]:
Well, wait a minute.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:32]:
The vast wealth inequality gap.
Leo Laporte [01:00:33]:
I don't care whether you make a profit. At cost means you're gonna sell 'em.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:36]:
Well, we had a partner we're working with, and I just assumed they would send to their subscribers the foldout plus the wealth inequality issue. It turns out, no. I'm like—
Leo Laporte [01:00:49]:
What does The Onion have to do with any of this?
Jeff Atwood [01:00:52]:
Well, Onion has been running ads and just generally supporting the initiative. In fact, show one of the— oh, show the rutabaga. Oh my God, that one is the best. Onion rutabaga.
Leo Laporte [01:01:05]:
If I just Google— oh God, I shouldn't show that. Should I just Google onion? Maybe if I do the onion, sure, I won't get a mix of an onion and a rutabaga. How do you spell rutabaga? R-U-T-A-B-A-G-A?
Jeff Atwood [01:01:22]:
Or—
Leo Laporte [01:01:22]:
yeah, it must be.
Leo's Laptop [01:01:25]:
Right?
Leo Laporte [01:01:26]:
And now rutabaga. I got exactly what I was worried about.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:30]:
You had it on the screen, you spring it.
Leo Laporte [01:01:32]:
I said the onion.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:33]:
There.
Leo Laporte [01:01:35]:
The USDA replaced food stamps with one giant rutabaga.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:38]:
Seriously, this is sublime. Make it full screen.
Leo Laporte [01:01:42]:
I love the concept. Onion news.
Leo's Laptop [01:01:46]:
Major changes to America's food assistance program. Programs begin today as the USDA is replacing food stamps with one giant rutabaga. The rutabaga, which is approximately the size of a single-family home, has been made available for all eligible Americans to gnaw on. USDA head Brooke Rollins touted the rutabaga in a statement, saying, quote, millions of families no longer have to figure out what food products qualify for SNAP benefits and what doesn't. Now they can just go to the rutabaga. While I've never had a rutabaga myself, I'm sure they taste fine. Plus, it's very easy to get to the rutabaga. It's right off the highway.
Leo's Laptop [01:02:18]:
Early participants in the program are already enjoying the rutabaga. It's okay.
Leo Laporte [01:02:23]:
I mean, you gotta bring your own salt though.
Jeff Atwood [01:02:25]:
Tastes like dirt. It didn't taste good.
Leo's Laptop [01:02:28]:
While rutabaga enrollees are subject to strict income eligibility requirements, the giant rutabaga's hefty $100 billion price tag isn't without its critics.
Leo Laporte [01:02:37]:
But how do we know people aren't lying on the rutabaga forms and taking big bites out of the giant rutabaga even though they can afford rutabagas of their own.
Jeff Atwood [01:02:45]:
This is why I've always said from the start it should be a giant radish, because only the truly hungry would ever eat a radish. I don't care what it is. They are sneaking out chunks, fermenting them at home, and getting drunk on rutabaga wine with my tax dollars. They're rutabaga queens.
Leo's Laptop [01:03:01]:
To help alleviate the financial burden, the USDA has announced the rutabaga will be further subsidized by a livestream where wealthy Americans can pay to watch the poor eat and even fight over what little is left of the rutabaga. Coming up next, more on the horrific story There was a story in New York City this morning where a local billionaire was dragged out into the street and taxed.
Leo Laporte [01:03:22]:
Dragged out into the street and taxed.
Leo's Laptop [01:03:23]:
Shocking.
Leo Laporte [01:03:23]:
Shocking.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:24]:
Taxed. Oh my God.
Leo Laporte [01:03:28]:
Wow.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:29]:
Wow. That was the best one.
Leo Laporte [01:03:31]:
Oh, and you know what? He's plugging Politizane right there.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:34]:
Yeah, which is unusual for them.
Leo Laporte [01:03:35]:
That is nice of him.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:37]:
And yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:03:38]:
So this is Ben Smith, right? Who bought—
Jeff Atwood [01:03:41]:
Yeah, Ben Smith and Len Wein.
Leo Laporte [01:03:42]:
Bought The Onion.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:43]:
They've been wonderful to work with. I mean, there were some points of confusion where we just weren't communicating. And, you know, I assumed certain things were possible. They weren't. But like in general, it's been fantastic.
Leo Laporte [01:03:53]:
You would never do that, Jeff.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:55]:
Well, I don't know. Certain things just make sense to me.
Leo Laporte [01:04:01]:
Jeff, you are the king of I thought certain things were possible, but they were not.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:08]:
Well, in this case, it's kind of like—
Leo's Laptop [01:04:10]:
That's good.
Leo Laporte [01:04:11]:
No, you know what?
Jeff Atwood [01:04:11]:
Well, she had the bills making it possible.
Leo Laporte [01:04:13]:
I like this about you. Because you have no limits. You're— I mean, uh, to expand in a positive way—
Jeff Atwood [01:04:21]:
Well, it doesn't matter because whatever the fuck is happening, I'll go around that and make it happen anyway because I don't give a fuck.
Leo Laporte [01:04:25]:
You'll aim the money hose at it, as—
Jeff Atwood [01:04:27]:
Well, just try stopping me.
Leo Laporte [01:04:29]:
One person said to me.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:30]:
Well, because I need to get 85,000 of these foliographs in the hands of people.
Leo Laporte [01:04:37]:
Why 85,000? Is that a magic number?
Jeff Atwood [01:04:39]:
It's what I can afford to print right now. Oh, it's 27 grand. And, uh, wait a minute, you're printing 85,000 of, of the lenticulars? No, no, this is the one. I can't show it to you, Zane. Well, let me show it to you. I really want to, but Zane says no.
Leo Laporte [01:04:53]:
So when, when is— when is whoever this person is— when is this person going to allow you to do whatever it is?
Jeff Atwood [01:05:00]:
Probably after the 30th when everything's released.
Leo Laporte [01:05:03]:
And is it a physical— give me— give us some hints. Is it a physical item?
Jeff Atwood [01:05:08]:
It's—
Leo Laporte [01:05:09]:
you can make $27,000.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:11]:
Sold out.
Leo Laporte [01:05:12]:
85,000 of them for $27,000. Oh, it's a full out.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:16]:
You know what? I'm just going to cheat.
Leo Laporte [01:05:17]:
Is Christy Canyon involved?
Jeff Atwood [01:05:20]:
Okay. Why specifically Christy did you ask me that? Answer my question.
Leo Laporte [01:05:28]:
Because of the giant wealth inequalities.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:33]:
And you're relating it to her giant bosoms?
Leo Laporte [01:05:36]:
No, not me. You did that, Jeff.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:41]:
Watching you. Uh, let me see if I have a sample here that's like safe.
Leo Laporte [01:05:46]:
I love radishes too, Timothy, and I think radishes are getting a bad rap in that video.
Leo's Laptop [01:05:52]:
Oh, I do.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:53]:
I can show you here. Let me— I want to show you actually 2 little things. We got time. Hold on. I'm a prop comic, man. Deal with it. You know, I like my props. Me and Caretaker.
Leo Laporte [01:06:02]:
So people are asking, uh, is the implication of the work you're doing the new advertisers can override the old advertisers? No, the old advertisers remain in. Those are what we call embedded. You can't get rid of them.
Jeff Atwood [01:06:15]:
What are you guys talking about?
Leo Laporte [01:06:16]:
Well, what, what poor Burkay and Anthony and the rest of the team have been doing for the last few days— but as you may have noticed, there are many shows That have somewhere you might want an ad, but there's no ad available to put there. That's where those markers go. And so that after the fact, uh, and it would— it's on back catalog, so it's not really worth all that much, but we don't want to— if somebody wants to buy it—
Jeff Atwood [01:06:41]:
Leo, I sent you a 3D cube, right? The 3D cube ray?
Leo Laporte [01:06:46]:
Wait a minute, let me look at that. I have a— you know what I have that maybe you don't know about? I have a Jeff bag. And in the Jeff bag are all the many things you have once sent me. Like this. This is a tangle, he says. What is it good for? I don't know. I think a 2-year-old might tease on it. I don't know.
Leo Laporte [01:07:04]:
Here's a Jeff buck. It's made of gold. Stay gold, America.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:09]:
That's Costa Rica money, man.
Leo Laporte [01:07:10]:
Oh, it's golden Costa Rica money.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:12]:
Because I want you to go to Costa Rica. That's the goal.
Leo Laporte [01:07:14]:
And you also sent me, to entice me, Costa Rican playing cards. So this thing I have in here, the stand for that hypercube. I have Junk's, uh, Junk's, uh, business card. Oh, the— I don't have that. What is that? You didn't send me that.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:35]:
This is the 2-dimensional version of the 3D cube.
Leo Laporte [01:07:38]:
Of the hypercube. You sent me a little bit more Coding Horror stickers than a human could use.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:44]:
Oh, by the way, I'm still pissed because our FedEx package is just gone.
Leo Laporte [01:07:48]:
It's still in Memphis.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:49]:
That was a lot of junk 3D printing, just so you feel bad.
Leo Laporte [01:07:53]:
I don't feel bad at all. Oh, I do have a yo-yo.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:58]:
And that's a good yo-yo.
Leo Laporte [01:07:59]:
I have some stickers. Power of the Paragraph.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:03]:
How about this yo-yo?
Leo Laporte [01:08:04]:
We were going to do on this show, by the way— oh, that's pretty. We were going to do on this show, uh—
Jeff Atwood [01:08:08]:
Wait, that thing you just had, turn it over.
Leo Laporte [01:08:10]:
It's one of the things you're famous for.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:12]:
Hey, hey, the sticker with the cat, turn it over.
Leo Laporte [01:08:16]:
Turn it over? This one?
Jeff Atwood [01:08:18]:
No, cat. It has a cat on the front. Cat-like hackle. Turn it over. Oh, I didn't put the date on you. It's Henry George. Henry George was so far ahead of his time.
Leo Laporte [01:08:27]:
Free trade, free land, free people. I'm a big believer in free trade.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:32]:
Portage was serious stuff.
Leo Laporte [01:08:34]:
You know why I like free trade? If you're worried about— oh, look, I found some more. Of Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty. Oh, putty.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:42]:
Yeah. Oh, and I found my putty card. It's on my website as well, but like the little exercises you do with putty.
Leo Laporte [01:08:48]:
This is something about weird— what's that? Oh, Crazy Aaron's exercises.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:53]:
That's a reference to the thing that was behind here, remember? Yes.
Leo Laporte [01:08:57]:
This is good. I got my Stay Gold lapel pin.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:01]:
You earned that.
Leo Laporte [01:09:05]:
So what am I looking for? Hey, hey, some kind—
Jeff Atwood [01:09:07]:
Wad Fan wrote, Henry George was wrong but cool. Hey man, citation required.
Leo Laporte [01:09:13]:
Why was he wrong?
Jeff Atwood [01:09:14]:
What was Henry George wrong about? Lay it on us, bro. I'm curious because I don't know. Oh, I have that, but it's over there.
Leo Laporte [01:09:23]:
Is this some sort of cult thing that you do?
Jeff Atwood [01:09:26]:
What do you mean?
Leo Laporte [01:09:27]:
Like when you get together, all of you, and meet And turn on your headlight?
Jeff Atwood [01:09:33]:
Only when we're having sex.
Leo Laporte [01:09:35]:
I would not wear this. I would not recommend wearing this during the act of love.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:42]:
You're lost, my friend. I didn't agree with his tax ideas. Elaborate, Waffam.
Leo Laporte [01:09:49]:
Oh, look, more sand.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:50]:
I mean, I'm not saying you're—
Leo Laporte [01:09:51]:
This is very exciting.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:55]:
I don't actually know his tax plans. So I wonder when you 3D cube it here. So you don't have the 3D cube handy? The, the So this is— What is the 3D cube?
Leo Laporte [01:10:04]:
No, I— oh, oh yeah, I have the HyperCube, you mean? Yes, let me go.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:07]:
Well, the HyperCube is different. There's a 3D cube. Let me see if I have it here.
Leo Laporte [01:10:12]:
I don't think you sent me a 3D cube.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:14]:
You haven't— you don't deserve it yet.
Leo Laporte [01:10:15]:
It's not in my Jeff bag.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:17]:
You gotta like, you know, level up before I can give you all the good stuff.
Leo Laporte [01:10:20]:
No, no, no, no, no, no, don't send me—
Jeff Atwood [01:10:21]:
I don't respect you that much. Oh my gosh, I just sent junk.
Leo Laporte [01:10:24]:
Oh my God, stuff. Leo, returning to the thing in the world has just happened.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:29]:
You know what it is?
Leo Laporte [01:10:30]:
What? You found—
Jeff Atwood [01:10:31]:
I have a Hypno Cube 4 cube, and I'm going to demonstrate how these guys went on to become like incredible elite defense contractors. This is something they did for fun, and it was so incredible.
Leo Laporte [01:10:45]:
So is this the thing that— this is, this is related to the hypercube that you get?
Jeff Atwood [01:10:50]:
So this would be 2-dimensional.
Leo Laporte [01:10:52]:
And this is— no, you gave me a 3-dimensional one.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:55]:
Oh, good.
Leo Laporte [01:10:56]:
That goes in the staff.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:58]:
The 2D one is actually quite interesting as well, surprisingly. But I want to demonstrate the differences because this thing's neat. You get it on Amazon.
Leo Laporte [01:11:07]:
I feel like we did this. I feel like we did this in a previous episode. Previously on Off By One.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:12]:
I don't know if we did. Well, I know we didn't do the 2D.
Leo Laporte [01:11:14]:
No, I know we didn't do the 2D.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:17]:
Bill Budge was impressed, for what it's worth. I still get in touch with Lil Budge. He spent—
Leo Laporte [01:11:22]:
Oh, see, no, I don't have that. This is different. I thought you meant the HyperCube. No, that's interesting. What does it do besides light up?
Jeff Atwood [01:11:31]:
Well, you shut your face and I'll show you.
Leo Laporte [01:11:33]:
I'm not stopping you. I'm just sitting here. I'm commentating.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:37]:
You can do it quietly.
Leo Laporte [01:11:38]:
I'm doing the play-by-play. I see you have the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop there behind you.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:44]:
Is that what that is? It's just the original Mac manuals. They're quite good. All right, we gotta de-bone this.
Leo Laporte [01:11:51]:
Oh, you've never— this is a fresh unopened one.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:54]:
Well, the nice thing about this is the firmware is on GitHub and you can program it however you like.
Leo Laporte [01:11:59]:
Like the HyperCube.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:00]:
It's, it's really, really well made. It's almost like a Johnny Ive product, kind of. It's like just really well made, clean. So I'll put it— let's see, can you guys see? Let me look here.
Leo Laporte [01:12:12]:
You have to aim the camera over in the corner.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:15]:
Okay, can you see it?
Leo's Laptop [01:12:17]:
Where—
Jeff Atwood [01:12:17]:
what am I doing? Here?
Leo Laporte [01:12:20]:
Here?
Jeff Atwood [01:12:21]:
Okay, so I have to kind of hold it. This is my child.
Leo Laporte [01:12:24]:
Okay, that's the 2D.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:26]:
All right, let's do this. This is going to be a terrible mistake, I know, but you know what? I make bad decisions. Let's just roll with it. Dealwithit.gif. Okay, here we go. That's a terrible— okay, this sucks. What are we doing? All right, I gotta finish talking about this. But you see, it's like fire now.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:44]:
It's kind of cool.
Leo Laporte [01:12:45]:
And you thought we wouldn't have anything to talk about today. We didn't even get to the, the one topic I thought we would talk about.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:51]:
Oh, we will, we will.
Leo Laporte [01:12:52]:
No, no, we won't. We're done.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:53]:
What?
Leo Laporte [01:12:54]:
We've been gone for an hour and 15 minutes already.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:57]:
No, no, we're lovely. Oh, no. Did you show people the thing I wrote that was so nice to you on the back of that picture?
Leo's Laptop [01:13:07]:
I did.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:07]:
It was a very beautiful thing.
Leo Laporte [01:13:09]:
Thank you.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:10]:
And I meant all that.
Leo Laporte [01:13:11]:
Oh, that's very sweet.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:13]:
Leo, where are your friends? Those AI things don't care about you.
Leo Laporte [01:13:17]:
I'm not saying anything. It's just that this is not an endless show. All shows, all, like all good things, shows come to an end at the end of the show.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:26]:
No, no, not this show.
Leo Laporte [01:13:27]:
Turn the lights out. But go ahead. I'm waiting to see the Q&A.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:29]:
It's eternal, like my love for you.
Leo Laporte [01:13:31]:
I'm extending. I'm extending.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:32]:
No worries. No worries. I think it's been a good show, actually.
Leo Laporte [01:13:36]:
It's been quite good. We were going to talk about how you started blogging because your blog is the most— ironically, because those 2 companies are very famous, but I think the Coding Horror blog is in many ways your greatest achievement.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:54]:
And I almost sold it for $120,000 to this guy.
Leo Laporte [01:13:57]:
And what would he do? Why would anybody spend $120,000 for somebody else's blog?
Jeff Atwood [01:14:01]:
Well, he saw the potential in it. Imagine what a bad decision that would have been.
Leo Laporte [01:14:06]:
That would have been a bad decision. That is your child.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:09]:
Let me power this baby on and then we'll, you know, end mercilessly.
Leo Laporte [01:14:13]:
Do you say horror or horror?
Jeff Atwood [01:14:15]:
Horror.
Leo Laporte [01:14:16]:
Yeah, it's horror.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:17]:
It's a boot sequence.
Leo Laporte [01:14:18]:
Not horror. Californians say horror.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:21]:
What I like about this is it's just, it never really is parametric and it never really repeats.
Leo Laporte [01:14:28]:
Oh, it's come alive.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:30]:
And it's like I'm having them work on an 8 by 8 by 8.
Leo Laporte [01:14:36]:
So wait a minute, do you know how hard that is? The problem with the HyperCube, if I unplug it, it doesn't, doesn't hyper.
Leo's Laptop [01:14:42]:
Huh.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:44]:
Well, again, you press the button twice to cycle between hyper, chill, and sound reactive. But this is a different brand. This is HypnoCube. But I strongly recommend both of these. The 2D and the 3D are outstanding. Plus you can go to GitHub, you get the firmware, and you can do all kinds I'm curious how that differs from this. Well, that is just LEDs going around the outside. This is LEDs inside.
Leo Laporte [01:15:11]:
How is this different? Well, is this a different company doing this?
Jeff Atwood [01:15:15]:
Different company, different design.
Leo Laporte [01:15:18]:
Well, oh, it is, because yours has, uh, the LEDs suspended kind of like the old-school RAM on a, uh— somewhere I have some RAM.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:28]:
Hold on, hold on.
Leo Laporte [01:15:30]:
Where did I put my RAM?
Jeff Atwood [01:15:31]:
Okay, here, here's what we got, Dale. Ready?
Leo Laporte [01:15:37]:
Wait a minute, if you're gonna do that, I'm gonna have to get a power supply for mine. I mean, we can't—
Jeff Atwood [01:15:43]:
Don't get out of that stack of memory. That was embarrassing. It's kind of hard to see against my black shirt though. You know, it's funny because I occasionally get Companies thinking I'm like a horror movie thing. It's like, check out our new horror movie. I'm like, no thanks.
Leo Laporte [01:16:02]:
You have a, um, a fetish of some kind for LED lights?
Jeff Atwood [01:16:08]:
A what?
Leo Laporte [01:16:09]:
Like, is this, is this your, uh, jam, LED light thing?
Jeff Atwood [01:16:12]:
I do like LED lights. The 3D thing is here, so amazing. I cannot wait to get the 8x8. It's a lot of work though because it goes up cubed.
Leo Laporte [01:16:22]:
But the good thing about this one—
Jeff Atwood [01:16:23]:
I want it so bad though.
Leo Laporte [01:16:25]:
Which also boots, is you could put it on a stick, on a staff, and walk around like you're some weird wizard.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:31]:
That thing is also very good. These are the 3 best things.
Leo Laporte [01:16:36]:
They seem similar. Now this one has fewer LEDs because it's using mirrors to amplify the LEDs. Yours does not have mirrors.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:43]:
But it has some very sophisticated effects, especially on, uh, I have yet to— audio.
Leo Laporte [01:16:48]:
I, I'm supposed to go to GitHub, right, and get software.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:50]:
It has very sophisticated music effects.
Leo Laporte [01:16:53]:
Now, okay, so that's one button push. Here's the second.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:55]:
No, no, no, 2, 2. 1, 2, it switches modes.
Leo Laporte [01:17:00]:
Okay, that's the second one.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:02]:
Push really fast. 1, 2. Oh, now press slowly 1.
Leo Laporte [01:17:09]:
Okay, now what?
Jeff Atwood [01:17:10]:
Slowly 1. Okay, now press fast 2. See? Oh, it's now Voice activated. This is why I couldn't—
Leo Laporte [01:17:21]:
I've been trying to get it to do this. I guess if I had read the manual, I would have understood that.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:28]:
And if you can update the firmware, because they do update a fair bit.
Leo Laporte [01:17:31]:
I will. How do I update it?
Jeff Atwood [01:17:33]:
Because this is a, uh, there's an—
Leo Laporte [01:17:35]:
it's a USB dongle.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:37]:
There's an iPhone app and you connect to your Wi-Fi.
Leo Laporte [01:17:39]:
Oh, there's an iPhone— oh, I have to connect to the iPhone app.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:41]:
Yeah, but, but guys, anyone sees this, I mean, HypnoCube is the bomb. Yeah, the 2D version is also the best.
Leo Laporte [01:17:47]:
I really like— you know what, I'm glad I find—
Jeff Atwood [01:17:49]:
Hypercube is no joke either. Those are all very, very good products.
Leo Laporte [01:17:53]:
I'm glad I finally got this because I've been— I've been— I thought— so how do you get to the voice activated? You double tap, single tap, double tap?
Jeff Atwood [01:18:00]:
Double tap iterates through 3 modes: hyper, chill, and sound activated. Okay, loops.
Leo Laporte [01:18:06]:
So you just double tap 3 times to get to— to get to this. Because I'm going to have to unplug it and it will then revert to its— better yet, I guess, is it a Hyper— is the app called HyperCube?
Jeff Atwood [01:18:19]:
I think so, yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:18:21]:
Yeah. I'm going to get the app.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:22]:
All right, Leo, do you have any questions for me?
Leo Laporte [01:18:25]:
Jeff? Um, no.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:31]:
You don't have to?
Leo Laporte [01:18:32]:
I'm trying to think, but nothing happened.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:34]:
Leo, I got a question for you.
Leo Laporte [01:18:36]:
Yeah. Are you happy Am I happy or am I hip?
Jeff Atwood [01:18:40]:
Are you happy with your life right now?
Leo Laporte [01:18:41]:
Yeah, I'm very happy with my life. Why, are you? What would you— if I said no, what would you do?
Jeff Atwood [01:18:50]:
I would inquire deeper as to what the issues were.
Leo Laporte [01:18:53]:
You would perform psychotherapy on me?
Jeff Atwood [01:18:56]:
No, I'd just try to help you as a friend.
Leo's Laptop [01:18:58]:
Oh.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:58]:
I'm not your therapist.
Leo Laporte [01:18:59]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:00]:
I just like you.
Leo Laporte [01:19:02]:
Yeah, let's see. If I were unhappy with my life, first of all, I wouldn't I wouldn't admit it on air, but I am happy. I have a very good life. I've done— so this is what I was actually starting to get into, was this whole idea of—
Jeff Atwood [01:19:13]:
Do you wake up every day excited?
Leo Laporte [01:19:17]:
Sometimes I wake up at 4:00 AM excited, which is probably not the best.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:21]:
Well, that's annoying, but okay. Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:19:26]:
You know what I always say in my life?
Jeff Atwood [01:19:29]:
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.
Leo Laporte [01:19:32]:
That's what I always say.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:33]:
The Three Stooges remake from 2000, that's a good-ass movie. It is. What? It's very funny.
Leo's Laptop [01:19:44]:
You're next.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:45]:
But I had a bat.
Leo Laporte [01:19:46]:
When?
Jeff Atwood [01:19:47]:
Well, Leo, look, I just want to make sure you're happy. I was too young to fight about it. What are you gonna do about it now?
Leo's Laptop [01:19:52]:
Take a bat.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:55]:
Are you gonna buy that stupid new Apple phone like you told me you have to buy every new phone?
Leo Laporte [01:19:59]:
No, I'd, uh, yes, but not yet because they won't let me buy it yet. I have to wait till the Duo comes out. Oh, what phone do you use?
Jeff Atwood [01:20:08]:
Uh, the 17, but I am thinking about upgrading to 18 just because the camera—
Leo Laporte [01:20:12]:
No, no, don't, don't, don't. You're falling for Apple's marketing.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:16]:
The cameras are quite good incrementally, in my opinion.
Leo Laporte [01:20:18]:
Yeah, but not this time. This time it's all hype. This, uh, the aperture thing. Look at Austin. Austin Manders.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:27]:
The trade-in is so high.
Leo Laporte [01:20:30]:
I know.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:30]:
I'm also getting a new Apple.
Leo Laporte [01:20:32]:
That's a good point.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:33]:
Uh, Ultra Watch, just because I want more battery.
Leo Laporte [01:20:35]:
And I do have an Ultra Watch.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:36]:
The trade-in values are so high for Apple stuff. It's great.
Leo Laporte [01:20:40]:
Yeah, that's a good point.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:41]:
You don't end up paying that much. I mean, is it necessary? No. But like—
Leo Laporte [01:20:45]:
This isn't— this is not much upgrade. You'll see it's exactly the same as the Ultra 3. Part of the reason I buy these is because I, I'm supposed to know about them and talk about them, but I, I would not recommend getting this except They are going to release, and you're going to hate this, software that will always be listening on this thing and take notes.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:03]:
Well, I think you need to turn that off, but I heard it's much better.
Leo Laporte [01:21:06]:
Yeah, but that's the only reason to get it. So turning it— if you don't want that, don't get the new watch.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:10]:
Well, it's much better measuring heart rate, so therefore I want it. And really, battery life.
Leo Laporte [01:21:15]:
You think that's what matters?
Jeff Atwood [01:21:17]:
Your heart beating so you don't die.
Leo Laporte [01:21:20]:
It's measuring my— you want to know what my heart rate is right now?
Jeff Atwood [01:21:22]:
All right, let's take it up. Come on.
Leo Laporte [01:21:24]:
It's measuring it right now. Come on.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:26]:
All right, come on. Who's going here?
Leo Laporte [01:21:27]:
Well, I guess it's not measuring it. It's supposed to.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:30]:
Shut up.
Leo Laporte [01:21:31]:
I have that widget.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:34]:
Oh, there it is.
Leo Laporte [01:21:35]:
82.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:36]:
Yeah, see, I run hot.
Leo Laporte [01:21:38]:
97.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:40]:
I'm insane.
Leo Laporte [01:21:43]:
My doctor once told me you have a limited number of heartbeats in your life, so don't waste them.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:48]:
I think he was wrong. Yeah, but some heartbeats are better than others.
Leo Laporte [01:21:50]:
I think he was actually wrong. You're right. Some heartbeats are better than others is very profound.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:55]:
That's very true.
Leo Laporte [01:21:56]:
It's very true.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:57]:
Hey, hey, Leo, I want to do this Christmas special with you, man.
Leo Laporte [01:22:00]:
You mean that the 24-hour New Year's special?
Jeff Atwood [01:22:02]:
I want to do it with you.
Leo Laporte [01:22:03]:
I'll help. There's no way we're doing that.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:05]:
I will help you. I will do everything I can.
Leo Laporte [01:22:08]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:09]:
I will be your buddy. I will do the work, even though you fucked me over with this FedEx package, which I'm still angry about. You totally—
Leo Laporte [01:22:16]:
So you haven't gotten it back? How come you haven't gotten it back?
Jeff Atwood [01:22:18]:
No. And I'm just, it's just annoying. You're just being such a diva. It's like, fine.
Leo Laporte [01:22:23]:
How come you haven't gotten it back?
Jeff Atwood [01:22:25]:
I don't know. I made the mistake of sending it to someone who's a diva. I understand where you're coming from. You could have helped. You know that.
Leo Laporte [01:22:33]:
Helped what? I was busy. I was, I was working for a living. Something you don't know about no more. So it's not called HyperCube. I'm looking on the App Store and there's a bunch of HyperCube. Hypercube.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:45]:
This is, this is, uh, hold on, what the heck?
Leo Laporte [01:22:50]:
I thought that was what it was called. Okay, walls doesn't have a, doesn't have a label. Hello, Hypercube!
Jeff Atwood [01:22:59]:
Oh, that one.
Leo Laporte [01:23:00]:
I am the voice.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:02]:
This is Hypno Cube. These 2 things, this is 2D and 3D. I think they should do a 1D as well, which would be funny.
Leo Laporte [01:23:10]:
This is HCN0009. I don't know what it is.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:18]:
Hey, do you have any LED lamps that you like? Because I have a couple.
Leo Laporte [01:23:21]:
You mean for, um, for like real use? For like studio lighting?
Jeff Atwood [01:23:26]:
For just, you know, general household use.
Leo Laporte [01:23:28]:
Yeah, we have LEDs.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:29]:
What do you got?
Leo Laporte [01:23:31]:
I don't know their name. We got one that looks— we got some that look swoopy-doopy, that look like an infinity. thing. That's our, our, uh, we just got those.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:40]:
Well, I'll tell you, I'll check out the Govee one that I've really liked. Um, the Govee cylinder table lamp, which is a cylinder instead of 3D. It's really cool. And then the other one that's pretty cool is— I don't know what to show next during the show, but, uh, the one that really impressed me was, uh, all right, I don't like the LED arrays just too much.
Leo's Laptop [01:24:05]:
You're next.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:06]:
But I had a bet. Oh, right, guy. So I tell you what, anyone on the show who wants the secret wealth inequality graph, uh, talk to Judd. Look at me every morning. We'll get to you by the 30th.
Leo's Laptop [01:24:25]:
I'm awake.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:26]:
It's very cool.
Leo's Laptop [01:24:27]:
How about you?
Jeff Atwood [01:24:27]:
I'm awake, but I can't get my eyes open. She got her brother drunk.
Leo Laporte [01:24:32]:
You seem like you would be a Three Stooges fan, actually. What's your favorite TV show ever?
Jeff Atwood [01:24:39]:
That's a good question because—
Leo Laporte [01:24:42]:
I'm a master of questions.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:46]:
The best.
Leo Laporte [01:24:47]:
The best TV show ever.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:52]:
Captain, Klingons off the starboard bow.
Leo's Laptop [01:24:53]:
I think—
Leo Laporte [01:24:54]:
Again with the Klingons.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:55]:
I mean, Star Trek's okay, but It's kind of used. It's not good, Captain. I don't know, man. It's just too broad. If I had to pick one, it would be The Twilight Zone.
Leo Laporte [01:25:08]:
Yeah, I kind of like that. That's a good choice. Yeah, that's pretty old-fashioned.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:15]:
Well, it fucks you up. Whishing people into the cornfield, that is some— yeah, that is— you really start to think after that. Let me give you this lamp really quick because it is neat, and then we'll go.
Leo Laporte [01:25:27]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:29]:
And then you have to give me one more thing and then we'll go.
Leo Laporte [01:25:31]:
One more thing? I'll give you— I'll give you right now. I'll give you one more thing.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:36]:
It's gotta be good though.
Leo Laporte [01:25:39]:
Consider yourself—
Jeff Atwood [01:25:40]:
no, no—
Leo Laporte [01:25:41]:
a man stuck in time. No, a man with a vision. A man with a block.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:48]:
Does that count?
Leo Laporte [01:25:48]:
Presented for your Jeffrey Atwood, crazy man.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:54]:
Okay, Govee Smart Table Lamp 2. It's very cool. And that's like a table lamp. And then the tall one, that's like a lamp lamp, which has a really nice IKEA look. And it's got a— it doesn't look all blinged out.
Leo Laporte [01:26:15]:
Where the hell He doesn't pay any attention.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:19]:
The Govee table lamp's pretty nice. You can program it. The app is good. You can make some cool effects with it.
Leo Laporte [01:26:29]:
I don't want cool effects in my table lamps. I want them to come on and I want them to go off. Oh, these look like little glow, uh, glow things, kind of glow Globe Globes.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:43]:
I've tried pretty much every Govee. Yeah, that thing is excellent. If you buy one thing, that's, that's the go-to. It doesn't take a lot of room and it's neat.
Leo Laporte [01:26:51]:
Do you have the floor smart floor lamp?
Jeff Atwood [01:26:54]:
Uh, no, that one sucks. Anything with a 2D array is just— it's, yeah, too limited.
Leo Laporte [01:27:00]:
I need to get something. My wife has a large onyx, hollow onyx stone That she wants to put lighting on the inside of because it glows from within.
Leo's Laptop [01:27:13]:
Are you—
Leo Laporte [01:27:13]:
do you do the Govee Halloween lights outside your home?
Jeff Atwood [01:27:17]:
Not yet.
Leo Laporte [01:27:18]:
I think you should. Or this 2-in-1 string lights.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:22]:
Good.
Leo Laporte [01:27:24]:
Or the Texas A&M Aggieland lights.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:29]:
I do like the, um, gosh, what is it, the Hyperspace Lighting Company HyperMirror, which is the, the— it's back here actually, behind me to my right. Um, make me bigger a little bit. It's this, this thing.
Leo Laporte [01:27:46]:
I'm gonna say what I could have said at that point.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:49]:
Well, you can't see it, but there it is. It's a mirror that is actually really cool, and it does the same thing so you can do sound reactive. I like that one a lot. I've got to find this stupid layup. It's making you crazy.
Leo's Laptop [01:28:00]:
Crazy.
Leo Laporte [01:28:02]:
Hypercube? Let's see, is this it?
Jeff Atwood [01:28:04]:
No, it's gonna be for them.
Leo Laporte [01:28:05]:
No, no, no, no. Can you beat this impossible game? No, I'm just trying to find the software. I shouldn't have thrown out the manual. That was my mistake.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:16]:
Okay, this is really annoying.
Leo Laporte [01:28:18]:
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I do want to thank you for joining us for another exciting time.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:27]:
Yeah, this was fun, and we'll get more into Politizane and like wealth inequality and some of the detailed questions later. I did think we did an okay job of explaining some of them.
Leo Laporte [01:28:38]:
I think we talked about it. And I think the main point is to get people—
Jeff Atwood [01:28:41]:
Yeah, we're just going to go back to some bullshit.
Leo Laporte [01:28:42]:
Yeah, go to the YouTube videos, watch the YouTube videos.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:47]:
And share them widely.
Leo's Laptop [01:28:49]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:49]:
Because they explain things in such a straightforward way. Here's what we're facing. Here's what we can do. Not, we're fucked. Although we kind of are, but there's ways through this.
Leo Laporte [01:29:02]:
Anthony, did you— maybe, Burke, you should tell him about the profanity rule.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:09]:
Yeah, I'm going to be editing those out.
Leo Laporte [01:29:14]:
Every time you say a bad word, we have to bleep you.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:19]:
Like what? Like Leo?
Leo Laporte [01:29:20]:
Yeah, like Leo. You can't say that either.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:23]:
I'm sorry. Uh, no, I need to— I apologize.
Leo Laporte [01:29:26]:
It's just, it's just one more thing Anthony has to do before he can open his Mac Studio, which is sitting—
Jeff Atwood [01:29:32]:
Well, look, Anthony, seriously, on his dining room table. You, man, for making me— I like creating work for you. I will try to be more careful. Seriously, I'm sorry.
Leo Laporte [01:29:44]:
Yeah, I'll tell you why we have that rule. Honestly, no, it's fine. Nowadays everybody talks like that.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:49]:
You need to explain.
Leo Laporte [01:29:50]:
I mean, that's just normal. But, uh, the re— you know, because I came from many years in radio, I have been trained not to say bad words. So, but that's— this is not FCC regulated. There's no legal rule against it.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:04]:
We say AI all the time.
Leo Laporte [01:30:05]:
I know.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:05]:
Vibe coding.
Leo Laporte [01:30:06]:
Vibe coding. Those are actually— YouTube doesn't like it either.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:10]:
Anthony, bleep those out, please. Really?
Leo Laporte [01:30:11]:
If you swear too much, yeah. YouTube, what do they do? Like your I think the algorithm is like, yeah, like, try not to. That's interesting because honestly, I think the generation of people who watch YouTube doesn't really care. Um, you know, it's funny, my son in his Instagram swears up a blue streak. I mean, every other word. And his mom, every time his mom will put on the Instagram, honey, you don't have to use those words. It's so funny. It's so cute.
Leo Laporte [01:30:44]:
No, the reason we do it is so that, and for this show it doesn't matter, but for the other shows, we want people to—
Jeff Atwood [01:30:50]:
Hey, Wood Fan said this was a great show.
Leo's Laptop [01:30:51]:
It is.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:52]:
Thank you, Wood Fan.
Leo Laporte [01:30:53]:
It is.
Leo's Laptop [01:30:54]:
Thank you.
Leo Laporte [01:30:56]:
The reason we don't is—
Jeff Atwood [01:30:57]:
Leo's holding me back for the record, but I'm trying.
Leo Laporte [01:30:59]:
So that people can listen in their car with their kids and not be embarrassed or upset, or the kids can listen. We don't want parents to say, oh, you can't listen to that show, it's too adult, because we feel like The young people of the world deserve to have information about technology and stuff like that. So that's more for our usual shows. I don't think any young people are watching this show or care. And I doubt very many parents are listening in the car.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:24]:
So to the audience that's listening, please delve into the Politizane videos. And if you have specific questions, I will try to answer them.
Leo Laporte [01:31:34]:
Awesome.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:35]:
Like for real. Um, just anything on the show.
Leo Laporte [01:31:40]:
Just ask him.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:41]:
And I'll— we have a lot more props and stuff because everything will be released.
Leo Laporte [01:31:46]:
So there's— so there's props like Carrot Top type props? What kind of— like watermelon with hammers like Gallagher?
Jeff Atwood [01:31:55]:
Zane won't let me show them. It's like under wraps for now.
Leo Laporte [01:31:58]:
Oh, Zane. Yeah, I know. Zane's kind of picky about the whole thing.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:03]:
Well, it's his baby.
Leo Laporte [01:32:04]:
It's his baby.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:04]:
Good Lord. I just stand back and let the awesomeness unfold.
Leo Laporte [01:32:08]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:09]:
And he did find some teammates that we hooked him up with that he really liked.
Leo Laporte [01:32:14]:
Oh, that's nice. So he's not, uh, he's not having to do this all by himself.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:17]:
No, no, no. Very difficult.
Leo Laporte [01:32:19]:
Good.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:19]:
Always takes a team.
Leo Laporte [01:32:20]:
I'm so glad to hear that.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:22]:
And I'm just happy. I just want people to see how bad it really is so that we can do something about it.
Leo Laporte [01:32:29]:
It is very bad.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:29]:
The first step is to see. Put on these sunglasses or start eating that trash can.
Leo's Laptop [01:32:34]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [01:32:36]:
Thank you, sir. Have a wonderful evening, Mr. Jeff Atwood. Thank you all for joining us for Off By One. And of course, a special thanks to our club members who right now are doubting their reason for donating. Honest.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:49]:
Why would they doubt? Look how awesome this is.
Leo Laporte [01:32:52]:
Look what you got.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:52]:
Come on, you're getting Jeff Atwood and this guy.
Leo Laporte [01:32:55]:
You're getting 92 minutes of goodness for nothing. Then we should mention— I never do mention, I really should mention Thanks to Jeff, we have a lovely Club Twit discourse, our forums, which actually we've had for a long time, long before I even knew Jeff Atwood existed, at twit.community, and our Mastodon is at twit.social, and those are open to all. We stream our shows on YouTube, Twitch, x.com, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kick so that everybody can watch. I don't believe in paywalls. That would—
Jeff Atwood [01:33:26]:
Well, you know, it's been a joy to be connected with Leo. Like when Paris said you and Leo have like— you're on different wavelengths of the same spectrum. That was kind of true.
Leo Laporte [01:33:38]:
We're both on the spectrum, I think, is what she was saying.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:40]:
No, no, I mean like—
Leo Laporte [01:33:41]:
I believe that's what she was trying to tell us. Check.
Leo's Laptop [01:33:45]:
Huh.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:46]:
What?
Leo Laporte [01:33:48]:
Oh, where's the microphone? Do you know? Is it here? Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:54]:
Hey, you know what else is really cool? These bomb air sprayers. I love these things.
Leo Laporte [01:33:59]:
You can't say that word.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:00]:
I love these darn things.
Leo Laporte [01:34:04]:
Don't say the word bomb. I have those too, but it looks like you, you don't use them for your photography.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:10]:
Well, anything including—
Leo Laporte [01:34:12]:
You just blow it yourself.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:14]:
I use it to bother my wife, Dr. Betsy, sometimes. It's very amusing. I sneak up on her like—
Leo Laporte [01:34:19]:
How you doing, Betsy?
Jeff Atwood [01:34:20]:
Stop it! Then I go—
Leo Laporte [01:34:22]:
I see a little dust.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:24]:
The trick is knowing when stop it is like stop it, or like I'm, I'm gonna hurt you, stop it.
Leo Laporte [01:34:30]:
My friend, it is, uh, it is time to, uh, hang up the spurs. But we have to be back.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:36]:
I don't know, what do you think of that? Of what was on here that came in the comments?
Leo Laporte [01:34:43]:
Um, sure, it was— be fun to have on. I mean, he used to come on more when he was— now his wife, who we all know very well, Janet, But kind of keeps him from coming on the show. So I don't know what's going on. I will try to get Waz for you.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:58]:
Well, I have a way with the ladies. Let me talk to this channel.
Leo Laporte [01:35:00]:
Do you know Waz?
Jeff Atwood [01:35:02]:
Never met him, seen him. But I've heard he just has—
Leo Laporte [01:35:05]:
I've hung with him many times.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:07]:
But what I hear is that he has no ability to say no. Everyone takes advantage of him because—
Leo Laporte [01:35:13]:
Yes, he doesn't say no. He's the nicest guy in the world and he says yes to everything. Is why his wife Janet, who's really a blessing, uh, is, is, uh, puts up a very strong front, a guard against, uh, him being abused. Thank you, Anthony.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:31]:
Well, if there's ever any— I love John McFarlane's show. That was great. That was a perfect—
Leo Laporte [01:35:35]:
You want to have a guest because then—
Jeff Atwood [01:35:37]:
No, no, I don't. I'm just saying if it comes up where you feel like—
Leo Laporte [01:35:40]:
Oh yeah, well, we'll get some guests on.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:42]:
John McFarlane was great because he and I did work together in Common Work.
Leo Laporte [01:35:45]:
And John's great. I love John.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:46]:
No, fantastic.
Leo Laporte [01:35:47]:
Yeah, we will, um, you should come by for our AI show.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:53]:
That sounds amazing. I want to send my AI over.
Leo Laporte [01:35:58]:
You, you know, let me know when you're ready. When you're ready, I will help you. I'll get you all set up. You'll be all set up. You'll have, you have little misfit toys in your house that talk to you, read you love sonnets.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:12]:
We already have rats out back. I don't need anything else. Thank you, Jeff.
Leo Laporte [01:36:16]:
Thank you, everybody.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:18]:
Yeah, thank you. I hope it was a good show. We're trying to make it better and better.
Leo Laporte [01:36:22]:
No, we're not.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:22]:
Leo's trying to make it worse, but I'm trying to make it better.
Leo Laporte [01:36:25]:
We are not trying to make—
Jeff Atwood [01:36:26]:
he is a good person.
Leo Laporte [01:36:28]:
Jeff worries about this show so hard. He worries.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:32]:
He worries.
Leo Laporte [01:36:32]:
He's like, what are we going to talk about? I need us— I need some stuff to talk about.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:36]:
Well, we just kind of have a rough outline, and we did.
Leo Laporte [01:36:39]:
We don't even know. I don't— I very rarely, uh, Well, actually, I do have outlines for the other shows. You're right.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:45]:
Well, there you go.
Leo Laporte [01:36:46]:
This show just happens.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:48]:
I had to make sure we had an outline and it went well.
Leo Laporte [01:36:51]:
Okay, sir.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:53]:
Wadfan, welcome you, man. And like, bring your friends. Tell them how awesome the show is because of, you know, me mainly, but they'll stop at—
Leo Laporte [01:37:01]:
Timothy liked it. Timmy liked it. Galya liked it.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:04]:
The show just happens.
Leo Laporte [01:37:05]:
Wadfan, Paul liked it. All 6 people watching loved this show. So well done.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:11]:
Well, that's right. Next time, bring your friends. Torment them with this show too.
Leo Laporte [01:37:14]:
Bring your friends.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:15]:
And if you want to, I'll make fun of them in the comments too.
Leo Laporte [01:37:17]:
Put your— do me a favor. Put your sunglasses back on.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:20]:
All right, hold on.
Leo Laporte [01:37:20]:
No problem. I'll put my nerd glasses back on. My perv glasses.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:23]:
I wear my sunglasses at night so I can, so I can. The problem is the refraction, but yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:37:33]:
Now move your head like this. All right. Thank you everybody. We appreciate you being here.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:41]:
We do.
Leo Laporte [01:37:42]:
We'll see you next time.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:43]:
We are officially too, too cool to talk to you now.
Leo Laporte [01:37:46]:
And I love—
Jeff Atwood [01:37:46]:
yeah, until next time. And there will be more detail on Paul DeZane. Please watch those.
Leo Laporte [01:37:52]:
They're— Get him on the show. He's so shy. I don't know why he's so shy.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:54]:
There's no way.
Leo Laporte [01:37:55]:
Nobody is gonna come knocking on his door at number 3 Blossomwood Lane.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:00]:
But watch those videos, come up with questions, and we'll answer them on the show. I promise you.
Leo Laporte [01:38:05]:
Okay. Take care, guys.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:07]:
But Leo, we won't answer your questions.
Leo Laporte [01:38:08]:
I don't know how to hang this up. How do you hang this up?
Jeff Atwood [01:38:11]:
I'll just click the X button like this.
Leo Laporte [01:38:16]:
Like that. Hey, it worked. Okay, he's gone. Thanks everybody. We'll see you next time.
