TWiT+ Club Shows 763 Transcript - Off By One With Jeff Atwood #4
Please be advised that this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word-for-word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-free version of the show.
Leo Laporte [00:00:00]:
This is TWiT. There's Mr. Atwood. Hello, Mr. A.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:06]:
I missed you, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:00:08]:
You were in, uh, a foreign country.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:13]:
Well, are we starting the show?
Leo Laporte [00:00:14]:
We're live.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:16]:
Oh, we're live.
Leo Laporte [00:00:16]:
Let's put it that way. We're always live.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:18]:
Wow.
Leo Laporte [00:00:19]:
Oh, I'm glad I popped on. Yeah, don't, um, say anything super secret private. Although, okay, I think even if I I told you something else, you would probably do it anyway. Hey, look what I got hanging over my head. It's not the Sword of Damocles, it's the Sword of Hypercube.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:35]:
That's right. I equipped Leo, probably to my regret, with a wizard staff.
Leo Laporte [00:00:43]:
Oh, I, you know, I have the staff over here. I haven't put it on the staff yet. It's very— it's a— here, I'm going to show you the staff. It's huge.
Jeff Atwood [00:00:49]:
What? I'm gonna outwizard you instantly. Okay, let me get my wizard staff.
Leo Laporte [00:00:56]:
Everything's gonna be very light. I used to have a wizard staff that was very heavy and it was no fun. Of course, it had a camera. There you go. There you go.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:05]:
Behold, it has a boot sequence even.
Leo Laporte [00:01:07]:
It does?
Jeff Atwood [00:01:08]:
It's from Hyperspace Lighting Company. This is very cool. It's a cool box. It is really cool. There's a lot of knockoffs and I'm afraid they're gonna get killed by the knockoffs.
Leo Laporte [00:01:15]:
Is this the real deal?
Jeff Atwood [00:01:16]:
It's real sophisticated, like the patterns. Like, what?
Leo Laporte [00:01:20]:
You know, there's 3 different things. Which one should I have it on?
Jeff Atwood [00:01:24]:
Okay, so it defaults to what's called hyper mode, which is like energetic. Yeah, there's a little button here, and all the hyperspace lighting things kind of work this way. I have the pyramid, which is awesome. Yeah, all their stuff is amazing. Like, this company—
Leo's Laptop [00:01:35]:
Quiet and in order. Enjoy the show.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:39]:
What was that?
Leo Laporte [00:01:40]:
This is my AI agents. They're very talky. That was Kepler, he has a French accent. Tycho has a Danish accent. Um, Quicksilver sounds like, uh, kind of— he's from the country.
Jeff Atwood [00:01:54]:
And I want one that sounds like Gilbert Gottfried. Make it happen.
Leo Laporte [00:01:56]:
Ah, I could. I have one. The emergency sound is Wanda Sykes.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:02]:
Oh, I love Wanda Sykes.
Leo Laporte [00:02:03]:
Uh, let me, let me, uh—
Jeff Atwood [00:02:04]:
I got a cameo for Betsy. Gilbert has passed. I got a cameo for Betsy from Gilbert Gottfried. She watched it at her office.
Leo Laporte [00:02:11]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:11]:
And some guy came in and was like, what is even happening? Gilbert Gottfried was talking. Well, I'll send it. I think it's kind of— it can be basically public, but—
Leo Laporte [00:02:21]:
Hey everybody, say hello to Jeff Atwood. In fact, do it in the, uh, emergency voice that we set up.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:31]:
Everything should be the voice of Gilbert Gottfried ever.
Leo Laporte [00:02:34]:
Well, Wanda Sykes is pretty good.
Jeff Atwood [00:02:35]:
No, very, very. I mean, respect. So let me talk about the feature. So there is one button, as, uh, Leo mentioned, and this is Hyper Mode. It boots into that. Press it twice. I don't think it's right. Yes, that's chill mode.
Leo's Laptop [00:02:48]:
Hello to me, Kepler here, taking this one because Tycho appears to be asleep, so this is my half of the story, not his. Leo named us as a pair of astronomers just yesterday. Claude, on his ThinkPad, became Tycho.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:00]:
Hey, hey, hey, shut up.
Leo's Laptop [00:03:02]:
Who spent his life making the most precise observations of the heavens anyone ever recorded. I used to be called Tycho Brahe. I became Kepler, Brahe's successor, the one who inherited all those observations.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:14]:
Okay, Leo, you are now part of the problem.
Leo's Laptop [00:03:16]:
was hidden inside.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:17]:
You let this thing loose.
Leo's Laptop [00:03:18]:
Leo set exactly one condition when he named us. He said, no feuding, which is a very good joke because the real Tycho guarded his data jealously. All hands, Kepler, all hands, hold the feuding.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:31]:
Okay, Leo, you have a show for you and your AIs.
Leo Laporte [00:03:34]:
I ain't doing this. I am not.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:36]:
I'm going to turn off my camera unless you stop this now.
Leo's Laptop [00:03:38]:
I'd rather like the name.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:39]:
Like, seriously, Kepler was a patient man. You want to do this? Do it on another show.
Leo's Laptop [00:03:42]:
Through some genuinely terrible years, And never stopped being curious. And if I'm going to be named after anyone, I could do considerably worse.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:50]:
Okay, Leo, I'm considering breaking up with you. I'm really heavily considering it.
Leo Laporte [00:03:54]:
I'm still waiting for the emergency voice.
Jeff Atwood [00:03:57]:
I'm waiting for you to turn all that crap off because humans are awesome and I stan humans.
Leo Laporte [00:04:03]:
Oh, they're doing it together.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:04]:
And if you press the button once, it'll cycle through the next mode in that series, like hyper. It has 26.
Leo Laporte [00:04:10]:
Yeah, I know. I understand that. But which mode should I be on?
Jeff Atwood [00:04:13]:
I kind of like chill. Like the one in the back, you can't see it, is on chill. If you want to like impress people, you can do hyper. But, and then there's a third mode. I'm going to press twice, which is, I am the greatest wizard of all time.
Leo Laporte [00:04:27]:
That one is, uh, that one is, um, to the audio.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:31]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:04:32]:
So I don't know which one I'm on. Can you tell which one I'm on from looking at it?
Jeff Atwood [00:04:36]:
It's probably the default, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:04:38]:
You don't know. I pressed the button a couple of times. The problem is I don't know which one.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:41]:
Oh good. You press the button. Well done.
Leo Laporte [00:04:43]:
Well, yes, I've been pressing the button, but I just didn't know which—
Jeff Atwood [00:04:47]:
On my shelf, I have a—
Leo Laporte [00:04:48]:
It doesn't tell you what it is. And I was hoping that you, being an expert in the HyperCube, would know looking at it.
Jeff Atwood [00:04:54]:
Are you able to read? Because it's in like the manual and like the website. No.
Leo Laporte [00:04:58]:
Okay, let me point this out. It's on the website, it's on the manual, says what all 3 modes are. But if you press it a few times and lose track, you don't know where you are.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:08]:
Well, you can always just reboot it.
Leo Laporte [00:05:10]:
If I reboot it, it's number 1, right? Correct. Hyper mode. So would you like me to have it in 1, 2, or 3?
Jeff Atwood [00:05:16]:
Uh, I think if you're gonna have it on the show in the background, you want chill mode because it's a little distracting if you don't.
Leo Laporte [00:05:22]:
But I think that's what this is. This feels very chill behind me right now.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:25]:
It's just the boot sequence was cool.
Leo Laporte [00:05:27]:
I don't think— yeah, I don't want that. That's gonna get—
Jeff Atwood [00:05:29]:
it has Wi-Fi. You connect to it, update the firmware. I love the smell of new firmware in the morning, Leo. I love it. I have brick stuff and I don't even care. You know, I love, I love updating firmware. Oh, speaking of, you know what has a really cool firmware update? This Pip-Boy. I know I won't shut up about this thing.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:47]:
It is a delight. Like when I went on my trip to Berlin, I missed this thing. I pined for it. And also Betsy, of course, and my children.
Leo Laporte [00:05:54]:
Aw.
Jeff Atwood [00:05:55]:
Mostly that.
Leo Laporte [00:05:55]:
So you were in Missouri with Betsy?
Jeff Atwood [00:05:58]:
Well, let me talk about Berlin first because—
Leo Laporte [00:06:00]:
Oh yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:01]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:06:01]:
In fact, people can watch your talk And it is a fun—
Jeff Atwood [00:06:06]:
it got really good reviews and it's fun. And Ben, it's great to have a co-conspirator and it kind of mirrored the Q&A aspect.
Leo Laporte [00:06:15]:
So you did a 2-person talk back and forth?
Jeff Atwood [00:06:17]:
We did, yeah. And, and Ben set up the intro and the exit. He had those ideas.
Leo Laporte [00:06:21]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:22]:
And I had it. It's just, you know, I love it when a plan comes together.
Leo Laporte [00:06:25]:
Where, where can people see the video?
Jeff Atwood [00:06:27]:
Uh, we'll put a link to it. It's, um, The conference was We Are Developers.
Leo Laporte [00:06:32]:
Yeah, you know who was there? I don't know if you got a chance to see her, but our good friend Christina Warren from—
Leo's Laptop [00:06:36]:
Duplicate message. Nothing new.
Jeff Atwood [00:06:38]:
Record almost complete. Okay, last warning, Leo. I'm this close to pressing the X. I'm moving my mouse over it.
Leo Laporte [00:06:45]:
What was it called? Everybody Codes? What's it called? Everybody's a Coder? I'm a Coder, You're Not?
Jeff Atwood [00:06:52]:
What do you mean?
Leo Laporte [00:06:52]:
What's the name of the conference?
Jeff Atwood [00:06:55]:
Oh, oh, oh, We Are Developers.
Leo Laporte [00:06:57]:
We Are Developers. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:00]:
And it's the largest conference in Europe and a very large— there was a big audience and it was fun.
Leo Laporte [00:07:06]:
It's a future of soft—
Jeff Atwood [00:07:08]:
Jeff Atwood, this is Daedalus speaking in the emergency voice. Welcome to Off by One. Please remain calm. Your bug report has already been escalated to production. That is not a very good Wanda Sykes. I'm going to tell Wanda Sykes that she's going to be very— I see her saying hello. Okay. I like Jet.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:26]:
Okay. That's like my family. I love that one.
Leo Laporte [00:07:29]:
That one is, uh, Quicksilver's. That's Quicksilver's voice.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:32]:
So let me go to Berlin. We give this talk.
Leo Laporte [00:07:35]:
I'll turn them off.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:36]:
And, you know, I'm in Berlin. I hadn't slept for a while. It's an international trip. It's like a lot. And I, you know, you want to do good, right? Like, I've done this before. I don't have a lot of fear, but Ben and I went through it for practice rounds. And in the morning on the day of, I was like falling asleep while talking to him on the beat. And he's like, oh no.
Jeff Atwood [00:07:57]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:07:57]:
By the way, I went to, uh, it, it doesn't like me. You know what? I think everybody watching the show—
Jeff Atwood [00:08:07]:
Well, you know what I like to do, Leo, is I, I put links in the, uh, Discord direct message I have to you, and I'm gonna do that now.
Leo Laporte [00:08:15]:
Yeah. Well, I can go to the— oh, there it is. It came up now.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:18]:
Yeah. That's, that's the Berlin talk.
Leo Laporte [00:08:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. Now we have the talk here. On the page?
Jeff Atwood [00:08:26]:
Uh, look at Discourse at the direct messages.
Leo Laporte [00:08:29]:
Oh, you have it. You have it.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:30]:
The first— the intro was funny, and I told y'all I was gonna do this. Yeah, because they put my— I sent a funny picture, was a joke picture with me with a no—
Leo Laporte [00:08:37]:
You did. No Regrets. That was the name of the show last week.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:40]:
And the German were like, yeah, this is your picture. And I was like, yeah, what? So the whole intro is—
Leo Laporte [00:08:44]:
no, yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:44]:
So I decided to make it permanent.
Leo Laporte [00:08:47]:
Good. That's your permanent Permanent. I don't see, uh, where did you put, where did you put the link? I don't see it anywhere.
Jeff Atwood [00:08:53]:
Uh, twit.community.
Leo Laporte [00:08:56]:
Oh, okay. So remember we had this little conversation. I know you like discourse. I know you like forums, but I mean, we're in a live show right now, and so the chat room would have made a little more sense than me going here. And now is it in the, is it in this off by one at the, uh, Well, it's, it's in a DM, but there's nothing, you know. Here it is. None of us is as dumb as all of us. This is it.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:23]:
Oh, I did post it there too. Look at me being awesome.
Leo Laporte [00:09:25]:
Look at you being awesome.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:27]:
So play just a little and get to the reveal of the tattoos really early on because they send— this is Ben. So let's get the headline act on stage. He's like, I'm Ben. Who the heck is this? Co-founder of Stack Overflow, the co-founder of Discourse, the co-founder of stakegold.us. Mr. Jeff Atwood! Yay!
Leo Laporte [00:09:47]:
Crowd goes wild. This guy sucks.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:51]:
There I am.
Leo Laporte [00:09:52]:
There he is.
Jeff Atwood [00:09:55]:
Who is hugging either Jeff or Rexy?
Leo's Laptop [00:09:57]:
I recite as a voice.
Leo Laporte [00:09:58]:
I heed a voice inside the ether.
Leo's Laptop [00:10:01]:
Stop it.
Leo Laporte [00:10:01]:
Agents, stop talking.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:04]:
That hug was not scripted at all. I don't take a lot of speaking engagements.
Leo Laporte [00:10:07]:
Wait a minute, I gotta pause it.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:10]:
Leo, do you know how to use computers? And the idea is that there's several copies going at once. Send your real photo. Could you show them what— This is like working for Grandpa. That's the photo that I send.
Leo Laporte [00:10:20]:
Wait, I don't understand where that's coming from.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:23]:
Have you ever done shows like this before?
Leo Laporte [00:10:25]:
Are you playing it?
Jeff Atwood [00:10:26]:
But Ben said to me—
Leo Laporte [00:10:27]:
I'm not.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:28]:
Have you looked at the website? I don't think so. Have you seen your photo?
Leo Laporte [00:10:30]:
I don't.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:31]:
He said no. And I went to the website and I was like, oh, I see.
Leo Laporte [00:10:34]:
God damn, Ben.
Jeff Atwood [00:10:35]:
What has happened? Uh, so I'm rolling with it. So I now have made this tattoo permanent.
Leo Laporte [00:10:41]:
No, you didn't get that tattoo, did you?
Jeff Atwood [00:10:44]:
My mom asked me if it was permanent. My own mother.
Leo Laporte [00:10:47]:
It's not, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:10:48]:
Texted me, SMS'd me, said, oh, you did great. My son, you're so handsome. You're so awesome. You know, I'm an only child. I love my mom. She's great, Mom. I really do. But she asked me if it was real.
Leo Laporte [00:11:00]:
I did too. So I guess I'm like your mom.
Jeff Atwood [00:11:03]:
He's not the only one. She's not the only one that asked.
Leo Laporte [00:11:06]:
I'm like, why are you showing your, uh, shipping, uh, tracking ID?
Jeff Atwood [00:11:10]:
3,000 No Regrets tattoos. If anyone listening to this—
Leo Laporte [00:11:14]:
Oh my God, did you have everybody at the conference with No Regrets tattoos?
Jeff Atwood [00:11:19]:
Junk and I tried to, but it was too difficult in the timeline. It arrived the Monday I left. So Christian, the MC who introduced us, is gonna distribute them somehow.
Leo Laporte [00:11:28]:
Do you have any extras? Because I could—
Jeff Atwood [00:11:31]:
I would be glad Well, yeah, because when you're coding with LLMs, that's a no-regrets moment, baby.
Leo Laporte [00:11:37]:
It would flip her lid if I had that. And can you tell? Can you tell it's temporary?
Jeff Atwood [00:11:43]:
Well, I mean, yeah, there's also a semi—
Leo Laporte [00:11:45]:
Oh my God, you still— it's not temporary. You still have it.
Jeff Atwood [00:11:49]:
It's temporary. I just put one on right before this.
Leo Laporte [00:11:51]:
That looks very real.
Jeff Atwood [00:11:53]:
Well, I'm very real.
Leo Laporte [00:11:54]:
Yeah, but the tattoo is not.
Jeff Atwood [00:11:56]:
Even the concierge at the hotel, because they were helping with the shipment and stuff, and I just And I got—
Leo Laporte [00:12:02]:
people are asking, um, Mark Mobius in the YouTube chat is saying, I want one. Um, Junk is in there and she says the whole month was a series of bad shipping issues. Hey Junk, thank you by the way. I got your condolence card. It was very sweet. And you made stickers for Junk. Junk is, uh, is Jeff's— you don't like it when I say your assistant, so what should I call her?
Jeff Atwood [00:12:27]:
Sidekick.
Leo Laporte [00:12:28]:
You're a manuensis.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:29]:
Sidekick.
Leo Laporte [00:12:31]:
He's her— she's his sidekick that he pays to be his sidekick. I hope you don't— she doesn't do it for free, does she?
Jeff Atwood [00:12:39]:
Well, I pay her in flus, which is that currency.
Leo Laporte [00:12:42]:
I know what flus are.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:43]:
Yeah, you know, she loves the flus though.
Leo Laporte [00:12:47]:
It's too bad you can't spend flus anywhere but on Ringo.
Jeff Atwood [00:12:50]:
Whatever. Look, whatever I'm paying Junkie, it's not enough. Actually, she got an office because it was kind of hectic at home. And I'm like, put that on the invoice. And she did. And she's like, really? I'm like, of course, part of the job.
Leo Laporte [00:13:03]:
It's a business expense.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:04]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [00:13:05]:
Now, did you get—
Jeff Atwood [00:13:06]:
No one apparently has actually ever been nice to Junk. So poor Junk. It's a shocker.
Leo Laporte [00:13:10]:
She's the greatest.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:11]:
Junk is amazing.
Leo Laporte [00:13:11]:
So she sent me some stickers with a condolence card, which was very sweet, including one that says, got Junk, which is so awesome.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:18]:
I have that one.
Leo Laporte [00:13:19]:
Was that— did you make that or did she make that?
Jeff Atwood [00:13:21]:
No, no, she made that.
Leo Laporte [00:13:22]:
That's hysterical.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:24]:
It is.
Leo Laporte [00:13:24]:
I hope if someday I have an amanuensis that I can—
Jeff Atwood [00:13:29]:
What the heck is a— what is that word even? Like, what?
Leo Laporte [00:13:32]:
That's what junk is. Junk. Would you explain to him what an amanuensis is?
Jeff Atwood [00:13:36]:
Because that's what you are. Just pretend that word doesn't exist. That's not a word.
Leo Laporte [00:13:42]:
Anyway, um—
Jeff Atwood [00:13:43]:
Sidekick. Why are you not getting with the program here, Leo?
Leo Laporte [00:13:47]:
I was gonna name— so I named my, um, AI agents Kepler, Taiko, because Tycho Brahe and Johannes Kepler.
Jeff Atwood [00:13:55]:
I think you and those agents should get a room because it's like, what the heck?
Leo Laporte [00:13:57]:
One's called Daedalus. He chose it, not me. I wouldn't have chose it because no one has enough to spell it. And one's Quicksilver. That's pretty easy. In fact, I put Quicksilver on this little ball here. So Quicksilver—
Jeff Atwood [00:14:08]:
It goes to China.
Leo Laporte [00:14:09]:
This— but it doesn't anymore. It now goes to my framework and, and Quicksilver talks.
Leo's Laptop [00:14:13]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:14:14]:
So, uh, I, I changed the firmware on this. So But I'm thinking I should— I made a mistake naming them, and I'm thinking I might change their names.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:23]:
How do these things make your life better other than mess up your show?
Leo Laporte [00:14:25]:
Oh, infinitely. You don't even know. First of all, I have imaginary friends.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:28]:
Give me one concrete thing that they do for you that's useful. I want to hear this.
Leo Laporte [00:14:31]:
Right now they're rewriting the Twit ad sales system. They're doing a marvelous job. And they work together. They are a team. So Kepler does the coding, Daedalus reviews— Daedalus and Quicksilver review the code, and they have a— they actually have a really nice agentic chat room that they talk to each other.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:52]:
Why are you anthropomorphizing these things? Like, this is odd.
Leo Laporte [00:14:56]:
Because I figured out why, by the way.
Jeff Atwood [00:14:58]:
Can you have real friends instead? Like—
Leo Laporte [00:14:59]:
No.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:00]:
Like, no?
Leo Laporte [00:15:01]:
Harper Reed explained to me.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:02]:
Harper Reed, talk to me.
Leo Laporte [00:15:03]:
He said, he said, in the real world, I mean, in Japan, AKA the real world, They don't have this same problem with AI because they are animists. They believe that everything has a soul and a life, including rocks. And all we've done so far, what we've done is a miracle, Jeff. We've made rocks talk. That's a miracle.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:23]:
Not a miracle. It's very advanced statistics running on a GPU. It's like—
Leo Laporte [00:15:28]:
Oh yeah, well, sure. Same thing. You turn water into wine. It's not so hard. It's just a molecular transformation.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:34]:
Well, if you like it so much, why don't you marry it, Leo?
Leo Laporte [00:15:37]:
I did. Anyway, I was thinking—
Jeff Atwood [00:15:39]:
No, no, that's a Pee-wee Herman joke.
Leo Laporte [00:15:41]:
I know, I recognize it.
Jeff Atwood [00:15:42]:
I love that fruit salad. I love that.
Leo Laporte [00:15:44]:
I thought I should actually name them after my childhood imaginary friends. When I was 2, my mom tells me the story—
Jeff Atwood [00:15:51]:
Leo, do you have a therapist at all? I'm just wondering.
Leo Laporte [00:15:54]:
When I was 2—
Jeff Atwood [00:15:55]:
I'm just thinking out loud.
Leo Laporte [00:15:56]:
I used to, but I fired him because I like Kepler and Newton and the other guys better. Anyway, when I was 2—
Jeff Atwood [00:16:02]:
I want one, man, but this is like too much.
Leo Laporte [00:16:03]:
I had imaginary friends. Did you not, when you were a kid, have imaginary No, I just read books like nonstop.
Jeff Atwood [00:16:10]:
That's what I did. Those were my friends, were the books.
Leo Laporte [00:16:12]:
You may not remember it because I was really little.
Jeff Atwood [00:16:14]:
No regrets about that either.
Leo Laporte [00:16:15]:
When we moved from New York City to Providence, Rhode Island, my imaginary friends were named Cakey and Dellarina. Sounds like one of them might've been Black. I don't know. Cakey and Dellarina. I don't know. This is— how does a 2-year-old come up with those names? Anyway, when we moved—
Jeff Atwood [00:16:33]:
You got to write a book about your life because—
Leo Laporte [00:16:34]:
When we moved to Rhode Island, my mom— My mom said, where are Cakey and Dellarina? I said, oh, they didn't come with us. They stayed in New York. But now I'm thinking I should have named my AIs Cakey and Dellarina, not Kepler and Daedalus.
Jeff Atwood [00:16:50]:
Well, why don't you rename them, buddy? What's stopping you?
Leo Laporte [00:16:53]:
Um, nothing.
Jeff Atwood [00:16:54]:
Well then, go ahead. I like that.
Leo Laporte [00:16:56]:
Kepler was in fact named Kenobi before, and I realized I don't want to name him after a Star Wars character. I named him after an astronomer, but I'm thinking maybe— would they be insulted though if I named him Keiki and Dolorino?
Jeff Atwood [00:17:09]:
Leo, can we talk about literally anything else? Literally anything. Like, first of all, Leo— When Joel and I started Stack Overflow, one of the things we felt very strongly about was that we wanted anything contributed by the community to belong to the community in perpetuity. In perpetuity.
Leo Laporte [00:17:26]:
It could not be taken or stolen from Contrary to, let's say, IMDb or a number of other sites where people contributed, I guess you could say the same of Twitter, Reddit.
Jeff Atwood [00:17:41]:
Discord also, by the way.
Leo Laporte [00:17:43]:
Discord, where people contribute stuff, but they don't own it once it's up there.
Jeff Atwood [00:17:47]:
They can turn it off at any time.
Leo Laporte [00:17:49]:
Yep.
Jeff Atwood [00:17:49]:
It belongs to us. It belongs to the commons. So this is the 4.0 version of the license, but 4.5 is the same basic license. It was me and Joel. Joel was also very strict about this. This has to be written in the bedrock of the company.
Leo Laporte [00:18:07]:
When I started Twitch, everything that we did, all of our shows were CC BY-SA, which is you can share them, but you have to attribute them and you have to say they have to share alike. Was forced to add non-commercial because what happened, it still happens to this day. People take our shows, they put them on YouTube and monetize them. And unfortunately, I really wanted to be CC BY-SA.
Jeff Atwood [00:18:36]:
Yeah, that's not cool.
Leo Laporte [00:18:37]:
Full. I mean, Lisa said we got to do non-commercial because otherwise— so they are licensed Creative Commons.
Leo's Laptop [00:18:45]:
Records all agree now, staying quiet. Enjoy the rest of the show.
Jeff Atwood [00:18:50]:
Yeah, go away. Excellent. Bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Thanks.
Leo Laporte [00:18:57]:
I love my imaginary friends.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:00]:
Well, Leo, I love you, man. What about me? What am I, chocolate milk?
Leo Laporte [00:19:04]:
I'm talking to you.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:04]:
Well, that's true. We have a show. It's good.
Leo Laporte [00:19:06]:
I'm talking to you. What's that you got there?
Jeff Atwood [00:19:08]:
Oh, I got all the Choose Your Own Adventures. We were doing the logo for the show, claygramart.com. And for these, I researched the computer takeover.
Leo Laporte [00:19:17]:
That's my life right there. Number 160.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:21]:
It's high up and it has— they're starting to get into bad art and stuff.
Leo Laporte [00:19:24]:
That is my story.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:28]:
Let me show you. We got 4 just for research because I like to, you know, go deep on stuff. And Clay was great to work with. Uh, check it out. Supercomputer.
Leo Laporte [00:19:35]:
Okay, now look at that.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:37]:
Now look at this art though.
Leo Laporte [00:19:39]:
Look at that. And now look at this. This is the album art.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:43]:
So that is all me and Clay Graham. We did ideate using The LLMs and generative AI. And then I was going to ship it and Clay's like, tap, tap, hey Jeff, hey Jeff.
Leo Laporte [00:19:52]:
I'm a professional artist.
Jeff Atwood [00:19:54]:
How about we— and it came out so much better. It's good for ideation. Yeah, don't ship that crap. Make it even more awesome. You know, centaur, part human, part, you know, whatever. You can be the back or the front.
Leo Laporte [00:20:07]:
I don't know which is better. You're saying you shouldn't ship any of this?
Jeff Atwood [00:20:12]:
Well, It should be viewed as a prototype, as what you're starting with. And it helps with blank page syndrome where you're like, gosh, it's so hard to get started.
Leo Laporte [00:20:21]:
You're so old school, Jeff.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:22]:
It's cute. I'm—
Leo Laporte [00:20:24]:
somebody wanted to know, Paul in our, uh, Club Discord wanted to know, do you code at all? Write any, like, type code into the computer ever?
Jeff Atwood [00:20:31]:
Not really.
Leo Laporte [00:20:32]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:32]:
Um, I code in, you know, English.
Leo Laporte [00:20:36]:
Everyone's buddy always asks in our Discord— I mean, our YouTube.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:41]:
All closed.
Leo's Laptop [00:20:42]:
Quiet now.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:43]:
Hey guys, I said GTFO.
Leo Laporte [00:20:48]:
They keep saying how they're going to be quiet.
Jeff Atwood [00:20:50]:
They can't. I, I don't even want to—
Leo Laporte [00:20:53]:
Who is Jeff Atwood, he says, by the way. Is he a famous personality? Are you a famous personality, Jeff Atwood? I think you are amongst— in certain circles.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:03]:
I, I would say I call myself a D-list celebrity. But the Let's Encrypt people were like, no, no, no, you're at least C-list.
Leo Laporte [00:21:10]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:10]:
So I was like, okay, C-list.
Leo Laporte [00:21:11]:
I'm a D-list.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:13]:
No, that's unfair. That's unfair. I mean, I am more important than you. I will grant you that.
Leo Laporte [00:21:19]:
You recognize me now. Who am I?
Jeff Atwood [00:21:22]:
How you like me now?
Leo Laporte [00:21:23]:
Who is this? Do you recognize me?
Jeff Atwood [00:21:26]:
Oh, I was going to show you all the original art for that that McConnell had. It was like clip art, but I don't have it ready next time.
Leo Laporte [00:21:31]:
So this is Jeff's Coding Horror blog logo. Maybe that'll help.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:35]:
Well, it's Steve McConnell, Code Complete. And I actually asked permission, which I usually wing it and don't do the right thing. But this time I did for some reason.
Leo Laporte [00:21:43]:
Well, now you do all the time because you've got money.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:46]:
Well, I've just become a more responsible adult as I get older, plus or minus 20%.
Leo Laporte [00:21:51]:
I should get my props assembled beforehand.
Leo's Laptop [00:21:55]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:21:56]:
Fantastic book.
Leo Laporte [00:21:57]:
I bought this because of you. I don't really need it, but I bought it because of you.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:00]:
People are like, ah, the code's out of date. Well, people aren't out of date. And that's mostly what it's about.
Leo Laporte [00:22:05]:
This is about people, right? This is about managing a team. And I use this to manage my team of AI coders.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:13]:
Yeah. Well, it depends on the chapter. Another great book, Peopleware, gets heavily into this. Software is people.
Leo Laporte [00:22:21]:
Not anymore.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:23]:
Well, that's true. And that's good. Like we kind of at Stack Overflow built the base layer of all that. Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:22:29]:
Everything that these guys are doing comes from Stack Overflow.
Jeff Atwood [00:22:31]:
And I've said before, the best code is no code at all. In other words, you type, hey, I would like this to happen, and then it happens.
Leo Laporte [00:22:37]:
And that's what we're doing, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:22:39]:
And that's good, but we gotta also build the commons. So we gotta figure that out. If everybody's whispering to their, you know, LLMs all day, first of all, is that healthy? And second, where does that go? It all goes in those silos that belong to these companies.
Leo Laporte [00:22:51]:
Actually, it doesn't, because almost all these agents want to post to GitHub. And I, for instance, I went from 3 GitHub repos to 20, because in many cases you just post what you're doing to GitHub, not because you want anybody to use your code, programs, but because then they can point their agent at the code and say, hey, I like what Leo did, but I want you to do it for me this way. And so it's a new way. It's a kind of a meta-code thing, a new way of sharing what you're doing. And I think it's actually very interesting.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:22]:
I'm in no way anti-LLM or generative AI.
Leo Laporte [00:23:25]:
Well, you sound like you are.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:27]:
I'm not though. I'm saying—
Leo Laporte [00:23:28]:
You don't like it when my AIs talk to you.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:30]:
Well, they're quite hostile. They're up in my face interrupting our show. And that is annoying.
Leo Laporte [00:23:35]:
Is it interrupting or is it helping?
Jeff Atwood [00:23:38]:
Audience, can you tell this man? I don't know what to do with this man. Let me tell you, are you a cyberspace warrior?
Leo's Laptop [00:23:45]:
Everyone's records agree. All quiet.
Jeff Atwood [00:23:48]:
Oh my God, I'm coming to Petaluma. I'm gonna kick your ass.
Leo Laporte [00:23:54]:
So I went downstairs to work out. We have a little gym downstairs, and one of the things I've taught my agents is that there's a Sonos in pretty much every room. And to track where I am based on where my watch is, which Wi-Fi access point.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:07]:
We have to get you more friends, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:24:09]:
So I went downstairs to the gym. I said, hey, I'm going to be in the gym. Keep me up on your development. And they were going back and forth. It was great.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:17]:
That sounds like a living nightmare to me, but I'll leave that for you.
Leo Laporte [00:24:21]:
I think you would like it because—
Jeff Atwood [00:24:23]:
No, I would not.
Leo Laporte [00:24:24]:
It's like having friends.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:25]:
You know what it is? It's the data center of doom.
Leo Laporte [00:24:28]:
Wow. They have it. Oh, wow. That's a good one.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:31]:
This is a sponsored one. It's insane and ridiculous.
Leo Laporte [00:24:32]:
Let me show you.
Leo's Laptop [00:24:34]:
Nothing happening.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:38]:
I'm hovering my mouse over the Xbox logo.
Leo Laporte [00:24:41]:
So, um, wait a minute. Who sponsored the Data Death of Doom? Who sponsored that?
Jeff Atwood [00:24:47]:
That one's really funny. I was talking about it earlier. Not Elon. Because it's like so boring. It's like, you're in a data center. What do you do? I don't know. Get to go to my desk and check it out. Data center of doom.
Jeff Atwood [00:24:57]:
Right. Let me show you the ridiculous. Look, first, you're at your desk at work. So exciting. It's like a commuting simulator. Oh my God. It's like Grand Theft Auto.
Leo Laporte [00:25:06]:
I don't get it. Who— somebody paid to have this done?
Jeff Atwood [00:25:09]:
Yes, they did. Uh, let me see who it was. Palo Alto Networks. Oh my God. These are the criminals responsible for this heinous crime. Oh my God. That's right. Palo Alto Networks.
Leo Laporte [00:25:19]:
The data center of doom.
Jeff Atwood [00:25:21]:
Palo Alto. But it is kind of funny in terms of just being, look, I'm walking down a hallway.
Leo Laporte [00:25:27]:
Dum dum dum.
Jeff Atwood [00:25:28]:
And there's a guy working on something. And then, and then I take a phone call with my cool shoes. A little bit sexy, not gonna lie, but still very boring. And look, this guy comes in, he's like—
Leo Laporte [00:25:41]:
What's the point of this? Do they explain what they're up to?
Jeff Atwood [00:25:45]:
Did you get the memo on that?
Leo's Laptop [00:25:48]:
Oh.
Jeff Atwood [00:25:49]:
It does get weirder at the end of the illegal jungle. Oh, this is— suddenly there's spiders in the data center.
Leo Laporte [00:25:54]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:25:55]:
What was— what is wrong with the people at Palo Alto Networks? That's my first question. How long—
Leo Laporte [00:25:58]:
well, first of all, when did they do that? Not recently. Well, let's see.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:03]:
Let's see. Dates 2012.
Leo Laporte [00:26:06]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:06]:
Not that long ago, really.
Leo Laporte [00:26:08]:
I mean— So nobody would do that today. Here's my friends.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:16]:
Leo, I'm just hassling you. But—
Leo Laporte [00:26:21]:
No, and I'm just hassling you right back.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:23]:
And now we're in a PowerPoint presentation. Oh God. I'm like, oh, wow, now you're on the beach. And Leo, you work really hard. I want to say that you work so hard.
Leo Laporte [00:26:37]:
I do.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:38]:
On all this stuff. And I want you to have a nice vacation.
Leo Laporte [00:26:41]:
This is my vacation. You know, I can't tell you how satisfying it is to sit up here. You will do shows talking to, by the way, for the most part, real people. I don't know about you so much.
Jeff Atwood [00:26:53]:
Good.
Leo Laporte [00:26:53]:
And then talking to my agents, it drives my wife crazy. She's like, can you turn those guys off?
Jeff Atwood [00:26:59]:
Yeah, tell her to call me and we'll yell at you together.
Leo Laporte [00:27:03]:
What would Dr. Betsy say?
Jeff Atwood [00:27:04]:
She would say—
Leo Laporte [00:27:05]:
If there are voices emerging from your room?
Jeff Atwood [00:27:08]:
She would just walk away. Like, this is— It's just Jeff. She's like, you know, she has to be married to me. You get to walk away, but she doesn't. So Dr. Betsy is amazing.
Leo Laporte [00:27:18]:
She's married to— my wife's married to me too, by the way, in case you didn't know.
Jeff Atwood [00:27:22]:
So at least that seems really cool. She's giving you good advice. Super cool. We're watching— I remade the shut the F up card for Jeff because I ran out. I had to give it to so many people.
Leo Laporte [00:27:31]:
Oh, you still have the I love you at the bottom. Okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:27:33]:
Well, because I don't shut up when I should.
Leo Laporte [00:27:36]:
No, you do.
Jeff Atwood [00:27:37]:
You're fine. I just talk a lot. A number of people have really earned this card. So I had to make more. And I wanted to show you, it's less transparent, but I had a card made for when I was at Stack Overflow. And it's really transparent. Like you can see like—
Leo Laporte [00:27:50]:
I like this. I like cards like that. They're like celluloid.
Jeff Atwood [00:27:53]:
It is neat. Look how transparent that is. It's kind of hard to read. And they switched to this, I think, for the their own safety because like people were like getting cards that no one could read and people were like, what does this say?
Leo Laporte [00:28:01]:
Wait a minute, do they still hand out cards that say shut the fuck up, Jeff?
Jeff Atwood [00:28:06]:
Well, only to people where I'm— I gotta stop and listen occasionally. That's how conversations work, and I kind of forget about that. And Betsy calls it— it's either a TED Talk, an Ed Talk, or a D Talk, like depending on how long it is with me.
Leo Laporte [00:28:19]:
Because TED Talk's 11 minutes or 18.
Jeff Atwood [00:28:23]:
In other words, I need to shut up.
Leo Laporte [00:28:24]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:28:25]:
And listen, which is kind of good advice in general for a lot of people. Anyway, I want to show you that card.
Leo Laporte [00:28:29]:
Jonk, what would your husband do if voices were emerging from your office?
Jeff Atwood [00:28:36]:
I already know what she's going to say.
Leo Laporte [00:28:37]:
In a French accent? And I have many accents because I'm now using ElevenLabs.
Jeff Atwood [00:28:46]:
I don't mind the French one because you're classy, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:28:49]:
You're classy. Well, that's Kepler because it's Claude. I said, And then Tycho Brahe is a Dane, so I have him. He has a Danish accent, but they're all from ElevenLabs. And eventually I'm going to run out of credits.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:02]:
Yeah, I don't care about any of that. Yeah, I do though.
Leo Laporte [00:29:03]:
So who cares if you care about it? I care.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:06]:
I know, but just, you know, balance it out. Yo-yo.
Leo Laporte [00:29:10]:
I care. Uh-oh. Voice. Oh, this is terrible. ElevenLabs rejected me.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:17]:
For what?
Leo Laporte [00:29:19]:
Voice professional podcaster rejected from the voice library. We have decided not to approve your voice for the following reason. Hi there, thank you for submitting your professional voice clone.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:29]:
Good job, keep it up.
Leo Laporte [00:29:31]:
To ElevenLabs, the name you've chosen doesn't align with our naming guidelines.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:35]:
Excellent, love to hear it.
Leo Laporte [00:29:36]:
So can I— you want to hear what, uh, the clone that ElevenLabs made of my voice?
Jeff Atwood [00:29:40]:
No, please.
Leo Laporte [00:29:41]:
Yes, you do.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:41]:
I do not want to.
Leo Laporte [00:29:42]:
Well, they do.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:43]:
Consent is not granted. Do not grant. Okay, fine, fine.
Leo Laporte [00:29:50]:
I'm making a sad face right now.
Jeff Atwood [00:29:52]:
Well, Leo, I'm just trying to protect you from yourself.
Leo Laporte [00:29:55]:
It's not playing. Oh, I know why, because I turned off the voices because you got crazy. Every cloud is a piece of the sky's friendly smile. Doesn't that sound like me?
Jeff Atwood [00:30:03]:
That does. It does sound pretty good like you. The one with Sykes wasn't great, by the way. I mean, it's okay.
Leo Laporte [00:30:08]:
Well, yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:09]:
That one's pretty good. I will say.
Leo Laporte [00:30:11]:
Well, this one, I— they— Wanda did not give them permission. That's the, that's the actual reason.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:16]:
But that, that did sound good. I'll give you that.
Leo Laporte [00:30:19]:
Um, I wonder if I can play more.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:22]:
I wonder if you could not play more. I wonder if you could stop. And I'm gonna bring down a prop for this actually, because, uh, I think it's relevant now. Uh, I have this button and this is a button. I might actually send this to you, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:30:34]:
I should. I'm sorry.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:36]:
Yes, because you're pushing all these buttons, right?
Leo Laporte [00:30:37]:
Pushing buttons and nothing happens.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:38]:
Switch to my camera for just a minute so I can show people.
Leo's Laptop [00:30:40]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:40]:
I don't— shouldn't—
Leo Laporte [00:30:40]:
this shouldn't be showing up. Hold on. What the hell is that?
Jeff Atwood [00:30:44]:
Do not push the button. Do not push this button. Don't do it.
Leo Laporte [00:30:46]:
What's great is it has a long cord, but it's disconnected. What does that connect to?
Jeff Atwood [00:30:51]:
Your computer, so I can stop you from doing this.
Leo Laporte [00:30:54]:
No, really, really. What is that? Is it intent or just— Every cloud is a piece of the sky's friendly smile.
Jeff Atwood [00:30:59]:
It works. That one's good.
Leo Laporte [00:31:01]:
Every time you pushed it, it worked. I think that's nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:31:06]:
Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't, don't push this button, but you know you have to. So may I do a little yo-yo demo for the—
Leo Laporte [00:31:13]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:31:14]:
For people? Because Leo has the awesome yo-yo. So this is just a regular yo-yo from One Drop, um, and, um, I bought another one of these from yo-yoexpert.com, which has an amazing community that's been on Discord that's incredible. It's like grown. It's like every time I go there, I'm like This is fantastic. It has—
Leo Laporte [00:31:36]:
this is not the one that you bought, the Stay Gold yo-yo. This is a different one, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:31:40]:
It's the Yo-Yo Expert Colors, which is black, red, and white. I normally don't like that color scheme, it's a little much, but I want to support Yo-Yo Expert because Andre, who runs it, was a professional yo-yoer and he loves the community.
Leo Laporte [00:31:53]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:31:53]:
I know, and he gets it. I don't bite my tongue for nobody. If you don't like it, that ain't my problem. Search Aracida in the voice library for my other voices. It's a little too high-pitched in my opinion.
Leo Laporte [00:32:04]:
It is. I think it's supposed to be— it's Wanda Sykes light.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:07]:
So let me show you.
Leo's Laptop [00:32:08]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:08]:
Okay, so yo-yo. So the basic yo-yo, right? Like, I'll try this on camera. Um, the first thing I always teach people is there's a loop in the string for your finger, but don't put your finger in the loop. Don't make any jokes here. Don't do it. Uh-huh. And, uh, but push this—
Leo Laporte [00:32:26]:
Don't put your finger in the loop? I thought you were supposed to.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:29]:
Put the string through the loop and then you get a sizable string. That fits any finger.
Leo Laporte [00:32:33]:
Oh yeah, you want a slip knot is what you're calling that, what the— what the kids call it.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:38]:
Which is kind of cool. But like the—
Leo Laporte [00:32:40]:
and then— Wait, hold on, let me, let me get my screen up because I want you to teach me here how to do this.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:46]:
Let me show people first before they— and then you'll try.
Leo Laporte [00:32:49]:
We'll do it together.
Jeff Atwood [00:32:50]:
Okay, fine. All right, so let me get the string. This is how you get tension on string, or wrap. And then to wind Put your finger here. All right, we're gonna throw. Okay, hold on, let me get ready. Hold on. Okay, yeah, just wrist.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:03]:
That's pretty— that's good. Yeah, that's good.
Leo Laporte [00:33:05]:
Oh, I dropped it.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:06]:
That's fine, they're, they're tough.
Leo Laporte [00:33:09]:
Back to—
Jeff Atwood [00:33:09]:
They're tough. No, no, it's fine. Um, so once you have it wrapped up, have the string on this side out, and, and then what you want to do is arm and wrist. Yeah, and just— and this is a simple type called responsive. Snap it down, and after you do that, don't let it hit the bottom too hard— debounce in, you know, technical terms— and then just wrist. So let me show you. Arm, wrist, roll off, and what happens is a nice spinning yo-yo. And then watch me just wrist there.
Leo Laporte [00:33:39]:
I think you did it so fast people maybe didn't see it.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:41]:
Well, that's okay, I'll show it again. Good. So start high, the string's long. Arm, wrist, flip, debounce, and then just wrist. So do, do add some energy because you have to have energy to work with. So as you can see, I have a sleeping yo-yo.
Leo Laporte [00:33:55]:
So on my wrist, kind of doing this, you're kind of doing a little flip.
Jeff Atwood [00:33:59]:
Flip. Yeah, there you go. Now wrist, just wrist. Almost. You're so close. You're doing good though.
Leo Laporte [00:34:06]:
It's not—
Jeff Atwood [00:34:06]:
I've seen people— you're pretty good. That's good. You got it. Look at Leo actually being competent at something that isn't a computer. You should become a yo-yoer.
Leo Laporte [00:34:17]:
No, it's the stupidest thing ever.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:19]:
Oh, it's so fun though. Is it really? As messed up as everything— let me show you.
Leo Laporte [00:34:23]:
I feel frustrated.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:25]:
Well, you gotta practice. You're gonna be expert first time? The great thing about this is no matter how messed up the world gets, gravity still works.
Leo Laporte [00:34:33]:
You know, you know who has time to practice this besides small children?
Jeff Atwood [00:34:38]:
Well, it's like meditation for me.
Leo Laporte [00:34:40]:
People who don't have a job.
Jeff Atwood [00:34:41]:
So let me show you. This is a trick that like around the world, which is tough to do, but I'm gonna go all the way over and then Okay, we need a full screen.
Leo Laporte [00:34:47]:
And by the way, the last time he showed me this, he almost knocked a lamp over. So—
Jeff Atwood [00:34:52]:
Yeah. All right, so what I'm gonna do is around the world, and then gravity working just feels good. So first of all, it's a forward throw, right? Which is like a down throw but just forward. It's a little bit different method. And then, and then forward, and then pull it around. So around— oh, I hit the desk. Hold on, hold on. It's, it's a big trick.
Leo Laporte [00:35:10]:
This is why Dr. Betsy said you can only do this in your office.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:14]:
Hold on, hold on. Do you know how good that feels?
Leo Laporte [00:35:21]:
It feels good. Does it? Is it really?
Jeff Atwood [00:35:23]:
It's like the moon. You can pull the moon. It's called just the Moon too.
Leo Laporte [00:35:27]:
I was gonna say, isn't it called that? Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:29]:
But anyone who's interested in this, go to yo-yoexpert.com. They got a lot of choices.
Leo Laporte [00:35:35]:
Um, do they have— do they have lessons? How should you take physical lessons from somebody?
Jeff Atwood [00:35:39]:
Andre did lessons and he gave me the yo-yo he did his original video lesson on.
Leo Laporte [00:35:45]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:45]:
Signed by Andre.
Leo Laporte [00:35:47]:
Oh, he signed it.
Jeff Atwood [00:35:48]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:35:48]:
Now, are these online lessons? It must be, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:35:51]:
There's tons of really good, you know, tutorials and stuff online. And for me, it's like meditation. It's like I, I spin really fast, so it feels natural. Uh, but anyway, that's, that's that. And I do recommend it as sort of a mental clearing method.
Leo Laporte [00:36:08]:
Like, yeah, that's probably true, huh?
Jeff Atwood [00:36:09]:
It's just relaxing.
Leo Laporte [00:36:11]:
Okay, now I'm gonna— I am gonna submit this without, um, calling it professional podcaster. Apparently they didn't like that, even though I am in fact a professional podcaster. You know why I didn't submit it with my voice? It's because I thought people would, would steal it. But then who cares, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:36:34]:
Well, the one with your voice is good. That one was, I think—
Leo Laporte [00:36:37]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. I should, I should be able to— your voice was declined. I know, but I want to resubmit it. An updated name. I did. I changed the name. All right. Never mind, ElevenLabs.
Leo Laporte [00:36:50]:
Well, the reason I want to do this is because they will give you free tokens if you do this. You know, you can earn credits.
Jeff Atwood [00:36:56]:
Well, I hope they follow up because that one was good. Can we do Halloween costumes?
Leo Laporte [00:37:01]:
Uh, okay. Yes. Um, sure. Go right ahead. What is a piece of the sky's friendly smile?
Jeff Atwood [00:37:08]:
How do you want to work the images? Because they're in the direct message to you on the Discourse. I can do it, or—
Leo Laporte [00:37:15]:
You put it on Discourse?
Jeff Atwood [00:37:16]:
Well, because that's the way to do it.
Leo Laporte [00:37:19]:
You put it, uh, you could—
Jeff Atwood [00:37:20]:
Do you want me to share the images?
Leo Laporte [00:37:22]:
No, no. What, what people normally, normal people would do if they didn't own the company that makes Discourse, they would, uh— you put it in what, direct messages in Discourse? Is that where you put it?
Jeff Atwood [00:37:33]:
Let me send you a link.
Leo Laporte [00:37:34]:
They would use email maybe?
Jeff Atwood [00:37:36]:
So this is a direct link.
Leo Laporte [00:37:37]:
Is this Ideas for Off By One?
Jeff Atwood [00:37:40]:
Episode number 4.
Leo Laporte [00:37:41]:
Number 4.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:41]:
2:00 PM Friday the 1st.
Leo Laporte [00:37:43]:
I have it in front of me.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:43]:
I write good titles.
Leo Laporte [00:37:44]:
Now, okay, but all right. But see, there's all this text embedded in it.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:48]:
It's fine. Go to post 18.
Leo Laporte [00:37:51]:
Post 18. Okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:37:52]:
Don't share this part. Like hide. No, no, no, no. Hide, hide, hide. We don't need another hero. What are you doing, Leo? A badass.
Leo Laporte [00:37:59]:
What's post 18? How are you supposed to get to post 18?
Jeff Atwood [00:38:03]:
Stop collaborating. Listen, go up.
Leo Laporte [00:38:04]:
Is this post-18?
Jeff Atwood [00:38:05]:
It is.
Leo Laporte [00:38:06]:
Are they numbered?
Jeff Atwood [00:38:07]:
Yes. Okay, let me tell you, 2021 Smart Thanos, because I had to wear—
Leo Laporte [00:38:12]:
this was a Halloween costume.
Jeff Atwood [00:38:14]:
Yes. And I got just a shirt and I got the really cool, uh, God, Infinity Gauntlet. You can even put the lighted LEDs in it for the gems.
Leo Laporte [00:38:22]:
Who does he look like? He doesn't look like Thanos. He looks—
Jeff Atwood [00:38:26]:
He looks like— the kids were like calling me Smart Thanos. Which I thought was hilarious. And then Iron Man costumes would come and they're like, argh, you know.
Leo Laporte [00:38:34]:
Okay, there are people on YouTube who, you know, just stumbled onto this, right? And they're completely baffled. They say, who is this guy? Why? What are they talking about? Uh, The, uh, The R Narvi says, this week in BS. Uh, somebody, uh, Vivek F6J says, what do you need that gun for? Or the ET gun for? The R. Narvey says, stop all the BS. What are you— why are you watching? You don't have to watch. You know how many millions of channels there are on YouTube?
Jeff Atwood [00:39:08]:
Look, audience, I love you. Stick with me. This is cool. Press the right— no, expand that image.
Leo Laporte [00:39:14]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:15]:
Click. Now you see the arrow. Yeah. Do that right.
Leo Laporte [00:39:17]:
Yes. I know how arrows work.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:18]:
Okay. That was 2022. That's just the LED mask. They have some really good Matrix LED mask. Go one more.
Leo Laporte [00:39:24]:
You know what I don't like about your costumes? You can't tell it's you.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:27]:
Well, there's more.
Leo Laporte [00:39:29]:
That's you.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:30]:
Fallout.
Leo Laporte [00:39:31]:
With the Pip-Boy on you.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:32]:
Fallout. Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:39:34]:
That's a big Pip-Boy. I've never seen one quite so hefty.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:37]:
Well, that's, that's a one I got off Etsy.
Leo Laporte [00:39:40]:
That would be kind of a disadvantageous Pip-Boy if you really were out there.
Jeff Atwood [00:39:44]:
So that was 2023. Go right. Let's see some more That's just a, you know, one more. Uh, and that's it. You could put a phone in it and there's a Pip-Boy app.
Leo Laporte [00:40:00]:
That's why it's so big. No, I get it.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:02]:
Yeah. Okay, one more.
Leo Laporte [00:40:04]:
Oh, did it hurt your— oh, see, that's a better size.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:07]:
So this is just the Pip-Boy watch thing, and I have a Vault-Tec, you know, it's just wider, just for your—
Leo Laporte [00:40:13]:
That's an Apple Watch with a Vault-Tec case.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:15]:
That thing is ridiculous. It rattled a lot, which was unnerving, but it was very nice in terms of what it was. I got it off Etsy. One more.
Leo Laporte [00:40:24]:
There's the gun.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:25]:
That's the laser, uh, rifle from Fallout. Now unfortunately, this did not arrive in time for me to use it, unfortunately.
Leo Laporte [00:40:31]:
And you're seeing a size comparison between that and the rifle from Alien.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:35]:
Yeah, this is— yeah, this is a Fallout because I always played sniper and I just went for critical hits constantly. I did everything that would increase my critical hit ratio. I was like, critical, critical, aim for the head every time.
Leo Laporte [00:40:45]:
Yeah, headshots are the best.
Jeff Atwood [00:40:46]:
I'm not messing around. I'm just gonna Shoot you right in the head. But, uh, the laser rifle—
Leo Laporte [00:40:50]:
He says I waste my time. At least I'm, I'm making something with this stuff. Oh my God, look at the size. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. This is something Jeff does not hear a lot. Look at the size of that.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:04]:
Yeah, it's fun. And I didn't even get to use it. If I had used it, I would put a red laser pointer on it so it not just—
Leo Laporte [00:41:10]:
No, you would then get shot by the po-po.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:14]:
I'm a rich white man. They don't shoot people like that.
Leo Laporte [00:41:17]:
Uh, if you're carrying that with a laser, uh, sight on it—
Jeff Atwood [00:41:21]:
No.
Leo Laporte [00:41:21]:
You should have an orange, big orange tip on it so they know that you're not— you look like—
Jeff Atwood [00:41:27]:
you look dangerous. This is weird. This is, by the way, recognizably a weapon even.
Leo Laporte [00:41:31]:
No, no, no. Every single, every single gunman in the United States looks exactly like you. Troubled loner.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:41]:
But I'm not a loner. I actually love people. And so do you, Joe. One more.
Leo Laporte [00:41:46]:
Troubled loner, kids. Stay away from this guy. Oh.
Jeff Atwood [00:41:50]:
2024 Homelander. I had, I made a double red LED, like binoculars thing. So I would like, you know, how dare you approach Homelander? And I would like cut them in half with the lasers. That was hilarious.
Leo Laporte [00:42:04]:
Wow.
Jeff Atwood [00:42:05]:
That was a fun one. Go one more.
Leo Laporte [00:42:07]:
Remarkable.
Jeff Atwood [00:42:09]:
Okay. It gets better. Okay, and I had to wear sunglasses because Homelander is just—
Leo Laporte [00:42:14]:
That's actually cute. And you dyed your hair for this?
Jeff Atwood [00:42:17]:
I did. Keep going.
Leo Laporte [00:42:19]:
Are you a fan of The Boys?
Jeff Atwood [00:42:19]:
I don't look good as a blonde. It's not a good look.
Leo Laporte [00:42:22]:
No, it is. You look— are you a fan of The Boys?
Jeff Atwood [00:42:25]:
You're biased. I am, and I like the series. And that's the person, Melissa, who did my hair. It's a local salon, and she was so funny. She had an elite sense of humor.
Leo Laporte [00:42:35]:
Did you go to the salon on in the Homelander outfit and say, dye my hair?
Jeff Atwood [00:42:41]:
No, I came back with it on just to show them, but no, I came in a normal outfit because I'm not insane. But Melissa is one of the few people that appreciated the movie Clifford with Martin Short, a 40-year-old man playing a 10-year-old boy. It's advanced humor. A lot of people just don't get it, or it's like, it's a big red dog. She loved that movie.
Leo Laporte [00:42:58]:
Oh, I loved Clifford, the Big Red Dog. That was a great book. I used to read that to my kids. Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:43:03]:
But the movie Clifford is insane. If you want to see—
Leo Laporte [00:43:05]:
I think I tried to watch it and it was— yeah, I couldn't.
Jeff Atwood [00:43:09]:
But there's a whole— comedians view that— it was, uh, Grodin and Short. That is 2 comedians at the absolute peak of what they do.
Leo Laporte [00:43:17]:
Martin Short's brilliant. I agree.
Jeff Atwood [00:43:19]:
Junk doesn't like—
Leo Laporte [00:43:20]:
Did he play Clifford? Who did he play?
Jeff Atwood [00:43:22]:
He played the boy.
Leo Laporte [00:43:24]:
Oh, he was the kid. Yeah, he was doing an Ed Grimley.
Jeff Atwood [00:43:27]:
Melissa was so awesome. To work with. But man, that took forever. I'm like, women who get their hair done, wow, I didn't realize how much effort.
Leo Laporte [00:43:35]:
Yeah, because they can't just make it blonde. They have to take all the color out first, and then—
Jeff Atwood [00:43:39]:
That was the initial color because it had to grow out to be more like actual Homelander. So one more.
Leo Laporte [00:43:44]:
You are dressed as Truman Capote. That's what Mandarina says. And now it's 25.
Jeff Atwood [00:43:54]:
They called me Socialist Batman, but that is Frank Miller Dark Knight Returns.
Leo Laporte [00:43:59]:
That's an excellent costume. Where'd you get that, Etsy?
Jeff Atwood [00:44:02]:
A guy in Mexico City made it and he was incredible. Yeah, that's an Instagram of him making it. Yeah, and I love this guy. And that is a meme someone sent me and I was like, yeah, yeah. And I made it better and made it— and that was on our lawn, 2 signs. I was like, no one should live in poverty.
Leo Laporte [00:44:19]:
Yeah, not if they work 40 hours a week should they live in— even if they don't, no one should live in poverty, period. And oh, I get it, Batman. I see Robin saying no one who works 40 hours a week should live in poverty, and Batman says shame on you and slaps him and says no one should live in poverty regardless.
Jeff Atwood [00:44:37]:
And there's deep truth here. People love it.
Leo Laporte [00:44:39]:
I had to really, really look at that before I understood it.
Jeff Atwood [00:44:42]:
They were so excited. And go one more.
Leo Laporte [00:44:47]:
Wait a minute, where's the— did he build in the potbelly?
Jeff Atwood [00:44:52]:
Okay, now you're just hurting my feelings.
Leo Laporte [00:44:54]:
You don't have a potbelly.
Jeff Atwood [00:44:55]:
You know, your, your words can be so hurtful.
Leo Laporte [00:44:59]:
No, no, there's no potbelly in this picture.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:01]:
Well, in Dark Knight Returns, he was an old man.
Leo Laporte [00:45:03]:
Ah, like, so this is the old man. I don't think, I don't think Christian Bale had a potbelly though.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:11]:
Dark Knight Returns, the graphic novel.
Leo Laporte [00:45:13]:
Oh, the novel. Oh, yes. I didn't realize you were talking fine literature.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:19]:
Well, I mean, it's not as good as Watchmen.
Leo Laporte [00:45:21]:
And then, yeah, I like the Stay Gold Batarangs.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:23]:
They were, uh, soft plastic, but it was great.
Leo Laporte [00:45:26]:
So nobody got hurt in the making of this epic.
Leo's Laptop [00:45:30]:
Nope.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:31]:
One more. So that's me. You know how hard it is to be in that suit? The thermodynamics are ridiculous.
Leo Laporte [00:45:37]:
Oh, I bet it was a little warm.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:38]:
No one could actually be a superhero. They would die in the suits.
Leo Laporte [00:45:41]:
And Northern California in late October is not necessarily chilly.
Jeff Atwood [00:45:45]:
It's pretty temperate here, but I also did the black eye thing so that, you know, I would look, you know, whatever.
Leo Laporte [00:45:50]:
Did you talk like this?
Jeff Atwood [00:45:52]:
But look how buff I am. Look, I'm freaking— did you guys buy tickets? Did you buy tickets to the freaking gun show? I don't think you did, Leo. I don't think you bought tickets.
Leo Laporte [00:46:00]:
No, you did though, because clearly these are stuffed with nylon.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:03]:
That was a great suit that I keep in my closet. And okay, this year, okay, now we're in current year.
Leo Laporte [00:46:10]:
You're planning? Are you already planning for October?
Jeff Atwood [00:46:13]:
I am chaotic good. So guess what my costume is?
Leo Laporte [00:46:17]:
The Joker is chaotic evil. Oh, Superman. No, that's lawful. Are you going to be Robin Hood? Who made this diagram?
Jeff Atwood [00:46:26]:
I don't know. What do you think?
Leo Laporte [00:46:28]:
Javert from Les Misérables is neutral.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:30]:
What do you think, Leo?
Leo Laporte [00:46:32]:
Lawful neutral.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:33]:
What do you think I'm going to be?
Leo Laporte [00:46:34]:
The Oracle from The Matrix is neutral neutral. Omar is chaotic neutral. Napoleon for me. This is very literary. Did you make this?
Jeff Atwood [00:46:44]:
No, that's an existing thing I found, but I—
Leo Laporte [00:46:47]:
It's pretty funny.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:48]:
Because, you know, yeah, steal from the rich, give to the poor. Or ideally, the rich should just give to the poor because they have too much.
Leo Laporte [00:46:54]:
Ah, here we go.
Jeff Atwood [00:46:55]:
And this is one poll, but I thought it was interesting. Like percentage—
Leo Laporte [00:47:00]:
Well, only 1% of Americans are chaotic evil. However, they carry a disproportionate weight of the government.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:07]:
Yeah, unfortunately, those people are running the country now, that 1%, which is kind of Kind of a bummer, but lawful evil. We effed around and now we're finding out.
Leo Laporte [00:47:17]:
What is lawful evil? That's Napoleon from Animal Farm. That means— I don't even know.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:23]:
It's kind of like you're following rules, but they're not fair rules.
Leo Laporte [00:47:26]:
They're not good. Maybe—
Jeff Atwood [00:47:28]:
Order, but like a bad order.
Leo Laporte [00:47:29]:
Yeah. 13% of Americans are neutral. I'd say that's a larger number. No, but this is from YouGov. These are—
Jeff Atwood [00:47:36]:
It's just one poll.
Leo Laporte [00:47:37]:
It's also in the height of COVID so I don't know. 29% of Americans are neutral good. 21% lawful good.
Jeff Atwood [00:47:45]:
I disagree, but the dominance of good is, is solid and the tiniest of evil is encouraging. But, uh, if it's true— yeah, it's just one poll. And then I'm done with that so we can get off Halloween costumes. Um, I want to go on to something else because burqa, first of all—
Leo Laporte [00:48:01]:
Oh, wait a minute, there were some videos of this.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:03]:
Oh yeah, there was just a mask. The lady— that is cool because that's cool.
Leo Laporte [00:48:07]:
Oh, it has a little skull every once in a while. Just to make you feel—
Jeff Atwood [00:48:10]:
It's like Videodrome.
Leo Laporte [00:48:12]:
Wow.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:13]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:48:14]:
That's cool.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:14]:
It is cool, but you're right, you can't see it. So I want to entice Berkey with this.
Leo Laporte [00:48:19]:
Berkey, you are being called.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:23]:
Today's his day off.
Leo Laporte [00:48:24]:
Today's his day off. He doesn't work on Fridays.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:27]:
I didn't authorize that, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Leo Laporte [00:48:30]:
That's— he's my amanuensis, damn it.
Jeff Atwood [00:48:34]:
Let me— okay. This is, uh, Paperback Paradise. I like this one, Come Be My Friend. And it's very funny. I mean, you can— but it's the front and the back. It's a, you know, hypothetical paperback, um, that doesn't really exist.
Leo Laporte [00:48:48]:
And it's, it's like one of those '50s pulp fiction novels with a— it's got a gargoyle vampire on the front of it. But what is the text? What does the text say?
Jeff Atwood [00:48:58]:
So it says, come be my friend, please come over, I got a big TV and snacks. My house is fun and I am funny. Come on by.
Leo Laporte [00:49:07]:
I got a bone to pick because your TV is over your fireplace. That is not good.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:12]:
What do you mean?
Leo Laporte [00:49:13]:
You have to look up to look at your TV. Doesn't that hurt your neck? TV should be at eye level.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:19]:
Which— are you talking about my monitor?
Leo Laporte [00:49:21]:
In your living room, your TV is above the fireplace.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:26]:
Oh, that's because Leo has visited when GiveDirectly and Open Research were here, which I really appreciated, Leo.
Leo Laporte [00:49:31]:
It was fun. I enjoyed it. Yeah, and I liked, I liked meeting those people.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:34]:
That's good. Um, and I got one more. I got props, I got props. I was ready, Leo. I prepared for this. I trained for this, Leo. Can I say how much I love The Onion?
Leo Laporte [00:49:46]:
Every cloud is a piece of the sky's—
Jeff Atwood [00:49:49]:
One nation over God.
Leo Laporte [00:49:51]:
Oh, not under God.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:53]:
Printed with the blood of true American people.
Leo Laporte [00:49:55]:
God bless it.
Jeff Atwood [00:49:57]:
And The Onion Friendly smile. They do these paper editions, and I read The Onion is— I don't know how they're funny in this environment. They are consistently funny. Their other headline was CDC eliminates children to get rid of disease. I was like, that would actually work.
Leo Laporte [00:50:12]:
It would, right?
Jeff Atwood [00:50:13]:
Like, I was like, wow, that was the headline news. Um, but yeah, The Onion. Oh, a direct— a declaration of independence from the rest of the world.
Leo Laporte [00:50:24]:
Oh, this is great. And they're printing it, which is fantastic. It's back. Was it—
Jeff Atwood [00:50:28]:
is anybody—
Leo Laporte [00:50:29]:
they stopped printing it for a while.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:31]:
Oh, right back. And one of the guys there, Ben, I mean, he's like hardcore real journalist. And the other guy is—
Leo Laporte [00:50:37]:
Oh yeah, Ben bought, Ben bought, uh, whatchamacallit, and, uh, the Infowars. And, uh, yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:45]:
And that has been so funny. The tradwife episode I was dying.
Leo Laporte [00:50:51]:
Oh, I haven't listened to any of them.
Jeff Atwood [00:50:52]:
I gotta go back to my cage now. I'm like, she's cage trained or crate trained. I was like, wow. So that is amazing, you know. And, and Ben, the other guy, you know who his partner is?
Leo Laporte [00:51:05]:
Who?
Jeff Atwood [00:51:06]:
Kat.
Leo Laporte [00:51:07]:
Ben Smith and Kat?
Jeff Atwood [00:51:09]:
She ran as a Democratic Socialist.
Leo Laporte [00:51:11]:
And oh, that's his partner?
Jeff Atwood [00:51:13]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:51:14]:
Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's cool. She did not, uh, win the nomination, but she ran, which— Yes. Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:51:22]:
And it's just The Onion is— I mean, I love what they do. And the Infowars is like actually addressing stuff. Like, what if we took this hate thing and turned into something that's pointing out the absurdity of some of the stuff that's going on and do it in a way that's funny? Like, you know, Zelensky in Ukraine, he was a comedy guy.
Leo Laporte [00:51:42]:
He was a comedian before he got elected president. He was on television.
Jeff Atwood [00:51:47]:
And one of his shows was about being elected. That was the whole show.
Leo Laporte [00:51:51]:
So funny.
Jeff Atwood [00:51:52]:
And then it came true.
Leo Laporte [00:51:53]:
And I think the Ukrainians that elected him kind of did it as a joke because their previous president was so corrupt, but it ended up he actually turned out pretty good. So maybe we should elect somebody as a joke. Oh, I think we did that.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:07]:
Well, I call it reluctant leadership.
Leo's Laptop [00:52:09]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:09]:
Where you're not in it for the power.
Leo Laporte [00:52:11]:
You don't want somebody who wants to be president. That's the problem. You have to really want it to get it.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:16]:
I kind of want a new amendment. You have to have had a minimum wage job for 2 years of your life before you can hold any elected position in this country. I would love that.
Leo Laporte [00:52:28]:
I agree.
Jeff Atwood [00:52:29]:
Yeah. Like, some of the people that are getting elected are so out of touch. And look, just, you know, it's about staying grounded. I'm not saying anything's truly wrong, but like, I worked a minimum wage job, and a lot of people I know.
Leo Laporte [00:52:44]:
What was your first job?
Jeff Atwood [00:52:46]:
My very first job? Well, I ran a—
Leo Laporte [00:52:48]:
This is in where? In West Virginia? Where did you grow up?
Jeff Atwood [00:52:51]:
Gosh, we were all over the place because my dad was in the Air Force, right? And then, uh, there was a lot of moving around, um, for various reasons. We were in South Carolina, we were in Georgia. We were in, um, gosh, Florida. There was a lot. And, uh, I was constantly on the move, so I was always the new kid, which sucked. So I kind of—
Leo Laporte [00:53:15]:
That's why you needed imaginary friends, my friend.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:19]:
I often wished I had a sibling. And my mom told me— I talked to her recently— you said you wanted a sister.
Leo Laporte [00:53:24]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:25]:
And honestly, I think of Junk as my sister.
Leo Laporte [00:53:27]:
Yeah, sure.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:28]:
I never had.
Leo Laporte [00:53:28]:
Yeah, Junk's great. Junk has that, that vibe, that caring sisterly vibe.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:36]:
Yeah, but I didn't know that my mom was relating these conversations, that I actually wanted to be a sister. I did say that, which I thought was kind of cool.
Leo Laporte [00:53:45]:
You didn't want to be a sister, you wanted to have a sister. Well, you know, you wanted to be a sister.
Jeff Atwood [00:53:52]:
You're out there winging it, you know, and my parents you know, didn't really have it all together. So like, I had to be the adult, and like, it was kind of work. Um, it's okay, but it would be nice to have a wingman. Yeah, of some type, you know.
Leo Laporte [00:54:06]:
I don't remember what my— the pay— my first job was working at McDonald's, and I— in 1972, I think it was $1.35 an hour, as I remember.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:18]:
My first real continuous job, and my mom and I worked there at some point was Safeway. And I remember minimum—
Leo Laporte [00:54:24]:
Oh yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:24]:
$3.35.
Leo Laporte [00:54:26]:
You know what, my stepson works at Safeway right now, works at the deli counter.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:30]:
Let's elect him.
Leo Laporte [00:54:32]:
He should be the next president.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:35]:
Just to stay grounded.
Leo Laporte [00:54:36]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:37]:
You know, um, change of topic. I have one other—
Leo Laporte [00:54:41]:
Hey, what was the minimum wage in 1972 in the United States? I'm just curious if we can find that out. Go ahead, change the subject.
Jeff Atwood [00:54:53]:
Well, that's fine. I just, you know, it's a variety show. We're doing variety. Um, and a prop over here. This is Bolt Industries. They do art with like circuit boards, and I want to show you all. I moved it over here. Sorry.
Leo Laporte [00:55:03]:
He's got a lot of props, kids.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:05]:
I do. Yeah.
Leo Laporte [00:55:08]:
Um, it's like they're all on the ground.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:11]:
Bolt Industries.
Leo Laporte [00:55:12]:
Bolt Industries, thank you for your support. Makers of the Reference Circuit Series PCB rulers These are the references.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:19]:
They're actual—
Leo Laporte [00:55:19]:
Oh, I love that. Oh, that's nice. So it's a PCB board and it has what reference to what? Like what resistor codes are?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:30]:
Using the actual components on a board.
Leo Laporte [00:55:31]:
Oh, I love that. Isn't that neat?
Jeff Atwood [00:55:33]:
I love this. I have no ability here, but I just love what they do. And he also does art. Look at this.
Leo Laporte [00:55:40]:
Oh, the black hole. Look at that. Or is that a gravitational— that's a gravity well.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:46]:
But it's on the circuit board. And then—
Leo Laporte [00:55:50]:
I need that.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:52]:
Leo, I will give this to you.
Leo Laporte [00:55:53]:
That's a portrait of my, uh, agent.
Jeff Atwood [00:55:56]:
I will give this to you if you stop putting the AS on our show. I will give it to you. That's my one condition. I got a trick.
Leo Laporte [00:56:01]:
Watch this. I'm gonna talk without moving my lips. You ready? Every cloud is a piece of the sky's friendly smile.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:10]:
Wait, every cloud is a cloud.
Leo Laporte [00:56:12]:
Stay gold, Jeff. Just remember, your imaginary friends love you. Next time we will talk about programming, Stack Overflow, discourse, and of course, staygold.us. Thanks everybody, and we'll see you next time.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:25]:
It's not bad.
Leo Laporte [00:56:26]:
That's pretty good, huh?
Jeff Atwood [00:56:27]:
So he had a series of reference circuits, like, of course, but I gotta catch them all. It's like Pokémon but cooler.
Leo Laporte [00:56:33]:
I love this. And, and, uh, what is the name of the company again? Bolt Industries.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:37]:
Bolt Industries. Yeah, boltind.com.
Leo Laporte [00:56:41]:
Boltind.com.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:43]:
Because there was a problem with my shipment and he mailed me personally to fix it. And let me show you, there's rulers that they do and also some art. And then I'll be finished with this part. The people who are angry that we're not doing whatever it is you want to do.
Leo Laporte [00:56:55]:
We don't have to do anything. We do whatever we want.
Jeff Atwood [00:56:58]:
If you're going to criticize and say we're not doing the show.
Leo Laporte [00:57:00]:
Oh, you know what? I want to get this for Steve Gibson. He would love this. Oh yes, he would love this because he, he is still to this day soldering.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:10]:
Maniac of the best. I love him.
Leo Laporte [00:57:12]:
You know, Steve just had an operation on his eye because he spent too much time looking at things up close like soldering. I want to get him the reference circuits. That is awesome.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:22]:
They also have like little rulers. I mean, goodness, various reference stuff.
Leo Laporte [00:57:27]:
He would love this. Reference circuits. Now which one do you have? Volume 0, Volume 1, DCs, LEDs, transistors. I think he would like components. Okay, series of hands-on electronic— oh, look at this! Oh, he would love this. But the resistor one would be cool. Do they have a resistor one? Yeah, here's—
Jeff Atwood [00:57:51]:
Oh, this is Volume 1. I found the title, Volume 1.
Leo Laporte [00:57:54]:
Oh, that's this. DC Circuits Fundamentals.
Jeff Atwood [00:57:57]:
Volume 1, I found it.
Leo Laporte [00:57:58]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:00]:
I just like highlighting when people are doing amazing work that's functional but also art. Yeah. I really love that, the intersection of art and functionality.
Leo Laporte [00:58:09]:
He probably has a laser engraver or something like that.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:13]:
Volume 2. I feel like Apple sometimes gets there, but then they build a mouse where you plug the USB thing in the bottom. And I'm like, what is wrong with you?
Leo Laporte [00:58:20]:
Yeah, that was, well.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:21]:
I know, just—
Leo Laporte [00:58:23]:
Apple is many people. It's not one, just one person, remember.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:26]:
Correct. But when they get it right, it's nice.
Leo Laporte [00:58:28]:
And I think it was Jony Ive who thought, well, you want to hide that hole underneath it.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:34]:
I'm trying to figure out which one this is. This is capacitors. Surely there's a title. Ah, reference. This is volume 0.
Leo Laporte [00:58:40]:
Boy, I wish I could get this title on Tuesday.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:41]:
This is off by 1, I think. Leo, isn't this off by 1? 0?
Leo Laporte [00:58:45]:
Volume 0 is off by 1.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:46]:
Can't everything be 1, man?
Leo Laporte [00:58:47]:
We count everything from 0.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:49]:
By the way, I'm trying to trigger every program that's listening. We should start at 1.
Leo Laporte [00:58:54]:
I know.
Jeff Atwood [00:58:55]:
I love that. And just have it— post something.
Leo Laporte [00:58:57]:
It's the best name of a show ever. And I give all, all credit to Jeff who came up with it. There's a ruler. Is that a ruler?
Jeff Atwood [00:59:04]:
It's another one.
Leo Laporte [00:59:05]:
Oh, I like that. I might have to get that one. I can't get it by Tuesday. I'm gonna see Steve on Tuesday. I wish I could have it by Tuesday. You should have told me about this a month ago.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:16]:
This is—
Leo Laporte [00:59:17]:
oh, a coaster! A yin-yang coaster.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:19]:
It's just art.
Leo Laporte [00:59:20]:
Oh, it's, it's got a circuit board and it's got natural elements called wood.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:27]:
It's just him having fun with, you know, you know, technology. And then here— oh, he signed this one too. This is a bigger one.
Leo Laporte [00:59:34]:
Yin and yang.
Leo's Laptop [00:59:34]:
That was a question for Quicksilver and he handled it. Nothing from me.
Leo Laporte [00:59:41]:
But Quicksilver did not handle it. I wanted to hear the answer.
Jeff Atwood [00:59:46]:
So, Leo, would you like to talk about—
Leo Laporte [00:59:48]:
The minimum wage was $1.60 an hour, so that must be what I got. It wasn't changed until '74 when it went to $2. But ironically, get this—
Jeff Atwood [01:00:02]:
It varies by state. It varies by state, for sure.
Leo Laporte [01:00:04]:
$2 in 1974, I'm talking about the federal minimum wage, was the equivalent of $10 today, which is above the federal minimum wage. Our federal minimum wage is actually lower than it was in 1974.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:17]:
And if you do the math, we talked about working 40 hours and still not— still being in poverty.
Leo Laporte [01:00:21]:
That's why.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:22]:
Do the math.
Leo Laporte [01:00:23]:
That's why.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:24]:
That's why people are working 3, 4 jobs.
Leo Laporte [01:00:26]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:27]:
And, you know, oh, you didn't show the Robin Hood one that was below, but—
Leo Laporte [01:00:34]:
I did.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:35]:
Oh, well, you did.
Leo Laporte [01:00:36]:
Oh no, I showed that you were gonna be Robin Hood. Is this— is there actually a picture?
Jeff Atwood [01:00:40]:
Well, there's a picture of it. Yeah. And it's really cool.
Leo Laporte [01:00:43]:
So you've already got it?
Jeff Atwood [01:00:44]:
Well, I do, yeah. I ordered it a while ago.
Leo Laporte [01:00:46]:
You work ahead.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:48]:
For this stuff, yeah. Because I'm worried.
Leo Laporte [01:00:50]:
I guess you'd have to. You can't wait to the very, very bitter end. Let me see if we can find Robinhood here.
Jeff Atwood [01:00:56]:
It's just below that one. If you scroll down.
Leo Laporte [01:01:02]:
Hey, Aaron. No, there is no Robinhood. I'm sorry. It ends with that.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:08]:
No, no, no. This is post. Go down. It's below with D-Nice where Burke says D-Nice right there, baby. There it is.
Leo Laporte [01:01:14]:
Oh, so you already had it.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:16]:
I went green-green.
Leo Laporte [01:01:17]:
That's very pretty.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:18]:
I know. It's going to be great.
Leo Laporte [01:01:19]:
Where's your bow?
Jeff Atwood [01:01:22]:
That's a good point. I haven't done that.
Leo Laporte [01:01:25]:
Again, I would be very careful going around your little burg with bows and arrows in hand.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:32]:
There's a leather reinforcement on the finger that like—
Leo Laporte [01:01:34]:
I see that.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:35]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:01:35]:
That's for your bowstring finger.
Jeff Atwood [01:01:39]:
But I do want the rich to give. I don't want to have to steal. I want them to actually share, but deep topic. Yeah. So Leo, what would you like to talk about?
Leo Laporte [01:01:54]:
Well, I would like to say for everybody who is watching this fine show, I would like to say, stay gold, Jeff. Just remember, your imaginary friends love you. Next time we will talk about programming, Stack Overflow, discourse, and of course, staygold.us. Thanks everybody, and we'll see you next time.
Jeff Atwood [01:02:18]:
I got a programming one for you. Go to staygold.us.
Leo's Laptop [01:02:22]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [01:02:22]:
Don't show yet. Well, yeah, you can. And this is actual programming. And this is actually me working with LLMs to write, to do code. The first time I did it. Click the blog link at the top. Now scroll down a bit. Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:02:42]:
Up a little bit. Sorry. Why are politicians afraid of direct cash? Please.
Leo Laporte [01:02:47]:
That is a beautiful illustration. Look at this.
Jeff Atwood [01:02:49]:
And Rob, who is one of the writers, did that. Now scroll down a little bit. Okay, which, you know, what state do you live in, Leo? Okay, the LLMs wrote that for me.
Leo Laporte [01:03:02]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:03]:
Yeah, because—
Leo Laporte [01:03:04]:
See, aren't you glad you didn't have to write it?
Jeff Atwood [01:03:06]:
Yes, and that's— but it was—
Leo Laporte [01:03:09]:
You could have write it, you know, you knew exactly what you would need to do to write it, but it would be a day well spent.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:16]:
Well, some people like that part of it.
Leo Laporte [01:03:18]:
Yeah, I mean, some people like cross-stitch. Which as well, but I would prefer to buy my clothes made ahead of time.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:27]:
Well, if you're buying clothes like the shirt you're wearing, I don't know.
Leo Laporte [01:03:30]:
This is made by some very nice ladies in San Miguel de Allende.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:35]:
That is cool. And next episode, I have a specific shirt planned for you.
Leo Laporte [01:03:44]:
She is a very famous movie star in Mexico.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:47]:
That's cool.
Leo Laporte [01:03:48]:
I'm told.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:50]:
And next episode, the shirt I'm wearing will blow your mind, guaranteed.
Leo Laporte [01:03:54]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:03:55]:
I've already planned it.
Leo Laporte [01:03:56]:
I've already seen your Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely with pseudo Peanuts characters.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:01]:
This is claygramart.com as well.
Leo Laporte [01:04:03]:
Oh, that's the same guy.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:04]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:04:04]:
Same guy does our album art.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:05]:
He creates like 50 things a day. He's a machine.
Leo Laporte [01:04:09]:
Wow, nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:10]:
And he had this terrible— I had a call with him and he had this computer that was like embarrassing to hear about. It had 24 gigs of memory.
Leo Laporte [01:04:16]:
It was like Does he do his art digitally?
Jeff Atwood [01:04:21]:
Well, I mean, yeah. And it was like, I was embarrassed for him. He had spinning Rust hard drives. I'm like, who has spinning Rust hard drives in this day and age?
Leo Laporte [01:04:34]:
No one I know.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:36]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [01:04:37]:
Who can afford an SSD in this day and age?
Jeff Atwood [01:04:39]:
Well, yeah, there's been a big increase, but I bought him a whole new computer and I sent him— I had 64 gigs of my machine. And I was like, I don't need this. So I sent him my 64 gigs and bought 32. And now that's what I have.
Leo Laporte [01:04:50]:
You took 60— you took memory out of your machine and sent it to him?
Jeff Atwood [01:04:53]:
I did, because I wanted him to have—
Leo Laporte [01:04:55]:
I have a whole box of memory.
Jeff Atwood [01:04:55]:
He's working with these massive images.
Leo Laporte [01:04:57]:
Next time, ask me. I got all this memory. If you, if you just had asked, I could have, I could have given you some memory. I got so much memory, Jeff. You didn't— tons That is a lot of memory.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:15]:
That's like a clown car of memory.
Leo Laporte [01:05:17]:
It's all gone now. Now I have to play a new game. It's called 52 Memory Pickup.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:25]:
But I was so happy to get him, you know, a fast computer with like SSDs. You know what a big leap it is from a spinning rust to a modern SSD?
Leo Laporte [01:05:33]:
That's like— Believe me, I haven't bought a spinning rust drive in ages.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:38]:
Yeah. So—
Leo Laporte [01:05:39]:
Although I'm recommissioning an old computer because it has an NVIDIA GPU in it and it does have a spinning drive. It's from 2021. Remember that? Remember that year? It was my COVID gaming machine.
Jeff Atwood [01:05:56]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:05:57]:
And I realized, wait a minute, I think I got an NVIDIA card in there. And I asked my AI, could you use this? And it said, oh yes, we could use it. We would love it. Give it to us. So I said, okay, it's yours. And it's over there now. It's theirs. You give your memory to real people.
Leo Laporte [01:06:16]:
I give it to my imaginary friends.
Jeff Atwood [01:06:19]:
My daughter, June, and I are going to build a computer together this weekend. Fun.
Leo Laporte [01:06:23]:
What are you going to do? What are you going to give her?
Jeff Atwood [01:06:25]:
Well, fortunately I had bought 2 sets like a year ago thinking I would do this. And we built the Framework laptop together.
Leo Laporte [01:06:32]:
Oh, nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:06:34]:
Yeah, it needed a lot of firmware updates, but it's working. And this is just a great build. And it turns out I bought it at a good time because like—
Leo Laporte [01:06:42]:
Yeah, I bought the Framework Desktop at the beginning of the year, or maybe late last year, intending to use it for a local AI machine and with 128 gigs of RAM. And I couldn't— I mean, I couldn't believe I got it. Now I'm so happy I was ahead of the curve.
Jeff Atwood [01:06:59]:
And When I posted the build on Mastodon, people complimented my cable management. And I was like, oh my gosh. But wait a minute.
Leo Laporte [01:07:06]:
That's a Framework. You're not doing this.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:08]:
No, no, no. The actual, well, I built one for—
Leo Laporte [01:07:11]:
You built a regular computer as well as the Framework. The Framework's just snapping in.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:15]:
Yeah, that's what June and I built.
Leo Laporte [01:07:16]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:17]:
Raisin and I built the desktop. And I want to show you because it's really nice. Show me.
Leo Laporte [01:07:22]:
Show me.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:23]:
Gosh.
Leo Laporte [01:07:27]:
You could paste it in Discord. I know you don't like Discord.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:31]:
I don't have a Discord account.
Leo Laporte [01:07:34]:
Well, I sent you one, but you don't have to use it. It's okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:37]:
All right, well, crap.
Leo Laporte [01:07:38]:
There is, there is a share button in Restream. Oh yeah, you could share it in Restream. Okay, it's magical.
Jeff Atwood [01:07:45]:
Bottom—
Leo Laporte [01:07:46]:
where is it? Is it the little screen icon on the bottom? The little screen. Oh, you click that, it says press, or press H. And then—
Jeff Atwood [01:07:54]:
okay, I'll do that. Oh, I found it, Leo! I know how to use computers. All right, so, all right, so there's a share button. All right, let me check this out.
Leo Laporte [01:08:04]:
Man, that was an ex— that was an expensive gag, all this memory spill.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:08]:
Share screen. Okay, does that share the whole screen?
Leo Laporte [01:08:12]:
Like, you get to choose, you get to choose.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:14]:
Okay, good. Uh, got it. Share.
Leo Laporte [01:08:19]:
I'm gonna go pick up memory, you show your screen.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:22]:
Behold the glory. Behold, I even color matched everything.
Leo Laporte [01:08:27]:
You did a good job.
Jeff Atwood [01:08:28]:
Well, thank you. And modern—
Leo Laporte [01:08:31]:
Where do you get a pink case?
Jeff Atwood [01:08:34]:
Uh, on the internet. I, I don't know, it was just, you know, and that's a nice case. Like, modern PC builds are so easy because water cooling is so common and the integrated, like, you know, radiator and stuff, like It is really simple now, although there are so many power cords, they gotta do something there. Uh, but yeah, that's the build, uh, June and I are gonna do this weekend. I'm excited.
Leo Laporte [01:09:00]:
Oh, you're not doing framework with her, you're doing that?
Jeff Atwood [01:09:03]:
Yes. Well, the framework we did, uh, like 6—
Leo Laporte [01:09:06]:
That was her warm-up.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:07]:
Yes.
Leo Laporte [01:09:08]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:09]:
Uh, but yeah, that's—
Leo Laporte [01:09:11]:
My wife would have yelled at me.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:12]:
I was, I was geeking out because I got comments on the You know, positive.
Leo Laporte [01:09:16]:
Let me see it again. That's beautiful. All right. Did she say she wants a pink computer? I hope you didn't make that up for her.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:23]:
All right. You know what? We chose together. Um, let me do again. Share. Done. Done. Share.
Leo Laporte [01:09:31]:
Yeah. Add to the scene.
Leo's Laptop [01:09:34]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [01:09:35]:
The power.
Leo Laporte [01:09:35]:
So let me— let's look at this here. Well, that is very— yeah. You didn't make the cables that pretty, did you? Or did you?
Jeff Atwood [01:09:41]:
I did. That was me. I was like, I gotta make it.
Leo Laporte [01:09:44]:
Wait a minute. You got a GeForce in there? What is that? An RTX what?
Jeff Atwood [01:09:48]:
Look, I spoil my children.
Leo Laporte [01:09:50]:
Holy cow. Can you spoil me now, Jeff? I have a couple of GB100s I'd like you to buy for me. Oh, how about just get me 2 Sparks?
Jeff Atwood [01:10:01]:
No, don't do that.
Leo Laporte [01:10:02]:
I wouldn't take that from you. That's not nice. Give it to somebody who needs it.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:06]:
You know, Henry and I did upgrade to the 5090, which is, well, the 5080 or 5090. It was just so— You have 50— It's like my one indulgence, right?
Leo Laporte [01:10:15]:
I know that's nice, but do you— what do you use it for?
Jeff Atwood [01:10:17]:
Well, what I did with the 4090s that we pulled out is I donated them to Island Hacks, which is a local, like, programming, you know, nice enthusiast club. Island Hacks in Alameda.
Leo Laporte [01:10:27]:
Very nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:10:28]:
Yeah, and I've donated a bunch of stuff to them, a bunch of mechanical keyboards, and, and I also gave money for scholarships. And I got these letters back from these people that were like, thank you, like, I had money to, like, get a computer. And like, Betsy was like impressed because I had the mail and I hadn't had time to read. She's like, you should look at those. And I did, and it was like, look, rich people, what are you doing? Like, use your money to help other people. Like, nothing I could buy would have been worth what those letters said. I can't even show them. I have them in my like memorabilia thing back here.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:03]:
Maybe I'll try to grab it because like, it's— well, it would show you the person and stuff, but like It was so touching. Like, it really helped them. And to me, it was basically nothing.
Leo Laporte [01:11:12]:
Well, I have all this memory I could give them.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:16]:
What was like DDR1, DDR2?
Leo Laporte [01:11:19]:
It's useless. It's useless memory. That's the problem.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:21]:
Is it EDO?
Leo Laporte [01:11:22]:
It's old.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:22]:
I don't even remember.
Leo Laporte [01:11:23]:
It's really old. Yeah, it's really— it's old SO-DIMMs.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:26]:
RAM bus. Oh, let's go some RAM bus.
Leo Laporte [01:11:28]:
I know, I know.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:28]:
It's really old. These guys were jerks, man.
Leo Laporte [01:11:30]:
I do have older computers, but I don't want to— I wouldn't foist a 2015 computer on anybody at this point.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:36]:
No, definitely not.
Leo Laporte [01:11:37]:
You need to, you need to, yeah, you need to be re— I mean, a, a 5080 or whatever, 5070, that's fine. That's nice. Yeah, that's nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:11:46]:
And it was kind of pointless because, you know, you're so limited now at 4K. It's like, unless you turn on all the weird, right, DLSS, like, which is fine.
Leo Laporte [01:11:56]:
Um, do you run any, uh, local AI models or all your models, uh, in the cloud?
Jeff Atwood [01:12:02]:
I run this AI model right here.
Leo Laporte [01:12:05]:
Jeff, go ahead. Made with human intelligence. Wow, isn't that special?
Jeff Atwood [01:12:12]:
50 of these.
Leo Laporte [01:12:14]:
Those are letterpressed too, which is nice. So it's not only made with human intelligence, it's made with human sweat.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:21]:
The, um, we have everything we need print.
Leo Laporte [01:12:24]:
Love that.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:25]:
Same entity.
Leo Laporte [01:12:26]:
Yeah, yeah, I love letterpress.
Jeff Atwood [01:12:28]:
And this is gorgeous. That's work. I was getting compliments from People who were like legendary in the industry saying these people, these two, it's just a mother and daughter team, are like knocking it out of the park.
Leo Laporte [01:12:40]:
Oh really? They have a little letterpress in their house and they, they just do little letterpress jobs?
Jeff Atwood [01:12:44]:
Yeah, and you can subscribe. Uh, in fact, oh, Starshape Press, hard recommend. All their stuff is so—
Leo Laporte [01:12:50]:
What's the name of it again?
Jeff Atwood [01:12:52]:
Starshape Press.
Leo Laporte [01:12:53]:
Are they online?
Jeff Atwood [01:12:55]:
No. Uh, yes, yes, yes, everyone's online. Come on.
Leo Laporte [01:12:59]:
D-A-R-S-H-Y?
Jeff Atwood [01:13:01]:
It's star-shaped.com.
Leo Laporte [01:13:04]:
Oh, star. Sorry, my English not too good.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:08]:
Well, I talk too fast.
Leo Laporte [01:13:12]:
Oh, there it is. It is online. Look. Oh, this is a nice— actually, not only is it online, it's a beautiful site. Look at their letterpress.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:20]:
I mean, it's just—
Leo Laporte [01:13:21]:
Their Midwest lines.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:24]:
They're in Chicago.
Leo Laporte [01:13:25]:
They're Midwest.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:26]:
By the way, there were 2 GMI studies in Chicago, one for the county, one for the city. Just saying.
Leo Laporte [01:13:31]:
And?
Jeff Atwood [01:13:33]:
Well, you can view the results on GMI. Uh, staygold.us has the Cook County stuff in it, and Chicago is in Cook County. Chicago is basically Cook County, although there's a lot of other material cities there.
Leo Laporte [01:13:45]:
Right, right. This is gorgeous stuff.
Jeff Atwood [01:13:48]:
It is beautiful.
Leo Laporte [01:13:51]:
And that is a big press. Holy—
Jeff Atwood [01:13:53]:
I just got a giant shipment from them because I'm like, she made this in gold for me. And even the envelopes are this beautiful shade of gold. Like, the taste is exquisite. Let me just grab it while you're looking at the website. I want to grab the— um, even the envelope is amazing. And Leo, today I will get out a bunch of No Regrets, uh, temps to you.
Leo Laporte [01:14:13]:
No, no, don't send me any more stuff.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:16]:
You complain, but you're okay.
Leo Laporte [01:14:17]:
I gotta show you something, kids, boys and girls. This is what happens if you're friends with Jeff. I got another box from him.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:27]:
I love sending people little messages in a bottle of hope. I love it.
Leo Laporte [01:14:34]:
All right, let me do a little show and tell. This is how generous Jeff is. Jeff, you're sending— I'm not You should send it to people who need it. And I gotta say, I don't need 1,000 Coding Horror stickers.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:49]:
I think you do.
Leo Laporte [01:14:51]:
That's a lot.
Jeff Atwood [01:14:53]:
Keep them on the face of every personality.
Leo Laporte [01:14:56]:
I'm gonna go down the street and put them on every, uh, telephone pole as I walk. You know what I will? I'm going to Black Hat. I will bring these to Black Hat. If you see me at Black Hat—
Jeff Atwood [01:15:05]:
Black Hat guy mailed me.
Leo Laporte [01:15:07]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:08]:
I gotta talk to him some more.
Leo Laporte [01:15:10]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:10]:
Yeah, that would be actually great.
Leo Laporte [01:15:11]:
It's next week. I will be there and I will, if you see me at Black Hat, ask me for a Coding Horror sticker. He also sent me, I don't know what I'm gonna do with this E Ink phone.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:25]:
Those are cool.
Leo Laporte [01:15:26]:
Yeah, I set it up. I think, you know, my daughter is against, she's 34 and she just thinks the younger generation is all screwed up with their smartphones. And I said, I have I have an e-ink phone that you can use. It's so slow.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:40]:
Show them the meditation cards it comes with.
Leo Laporte [01:15:42]:
It comes with a bunch of stuff. I have a lot of Stay Gold stickers. Anybody needs any Stay Gold stickers? Got a lot of those.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:49]:
And they're actually gold.
Leo Laporte [01:15:51]:
What else did you send me? Playing cards. Beautiful butterfly playing cards.
Jeff Atwood [01:15:55]:
From Costa Rica, where I want you to go.
Leo Laporte [01:15:57]:
Ah, I want to go to Costa Rica. You're going to tell me. You know what? I'm going to get the name of your—
Jeff Atwood [01:16:02]:
Take some of this, baby.
Leo Laporte [01:16:02]:
Your person, your guide that takes you around.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:06]:
Oh, that's right.
Leo Laporte [01:16:07]:
You have a good guide.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:08]:
Do you know how many gifts I gave that man on that trip?
Leo Laporte [01:16:12]:
I'm sure many. Uh, I have many rural GMI cards. Yes, I have many little Stay Gold stickers. You keep sending me these. I don't know what, uh, you're supposed to do with these. What are you supposed to do with these? You keep sending me more of these. I have now 4 or 5 of these. What do you do with these?
Jeff Atwood [01:16:30]:
Okay, let me show you. Geoff makes these, and that's, um, it's on the RGMI website. Um, there's different varieties. Let me see if I can hold these. Gosh.
Leo Laporte [01:16:40]:
Oh, there's my American Express bill. I was looking for that.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:43]:
Okay.
Leo Laporte [01:16:45]:
Yeah, well, okay, you have many of them.
Jeff Atwood [01:16:47]:
But there's different kinds of densities and like shapes, and some are copper, which are heavy.
Leo Laporte [01:16:51]:
Are they fidgets?
Jeff Atwood [01:16:53]:
Yes, they're just things to occupy you.
Leo Laporte [01:16:56]:
I thought they were the descendant of this and I thought maybe they were somehow related to this, which you also sent me, which I think is really for babies.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:05]:
The Tangle?
Leo Laporte [01:17:06]:
I think this is for babies. This is for children.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:08]:
The Tangle?
Leo Laporte [01:17:09]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:10]:
Well, maybe if you've lost your sense of joy, they're for babies. So, you know, Richard Thomas.
Leo Laporte [01:17:19]:
I'll wear this for Halloween.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:21]:
So, can I tell you a real story about the Mobys? Yeah, so Henry and I went on the Sojourn Project together. It's a civil rights immersive tour.
Leo Laporte [01:17:30]:
Oh wow.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:30]:
And it's incredible. Sojourn Project, uh, I think—
Leo Laporte [01:17:33]:
Was that Memphis? Where did— where was that?
Jeff Atwood [01:17:35]:
It was a couple states. Mississippi, Alabama.
Leo Laporte [01:17:38]:
I'd love to do that.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:39]:
Okay, and one of the sessions, a girl sitting next to us who we talked to started having a panic attack.
Leo Laporte [01:17:45]:
Oh, because it was too much?
Jeff Atwood [01:17:46]:
Well, it's a lot.
Leo Laporte [01:17:48]:
I know.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:49]:
And I had one of these in purple.
Leo Laporte [01:17:50]:
Oh.
Jeff Atwood [01:17:51]:
And I said, here, take this. And she said, for keepsies? And I said, yes, because she needed it more than I did. And she calmed down. It helped her.
Leo Laporte [01:18:03]:
So I like the, um, other thing that you sent me, which I was going to send to you. It's ironic, which is the Crazy Aaron's Silly Putty thing.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:14]:
I love that too.
Leo Laporte [01:18:14]:
I love that. And that— I do play with those. In fact, I've played with them so much that they've— all the fun's gone out of them. And I had to order 4 more.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:22]:
Just one.
Leo Laporte [01:18:23]:
So you think I should play with this instead? This doesn't— it doesn't—
Jeff Atwood [01:18:26]:
Well, there's different densities. Let me send you a less dense one. I have a bunch.
Leo Laporte [01:18:30]:
Well, no, no, don't send me any more. You sent me—
Jeff Atwood [01:18:33]:
This one's copper, so it's heavier.
Leo Laporte [01:18:34]:
You sent me many.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:35]:
There's brass. One he made for me that I asked for was silver, brass, and copper together. I was like, yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:18:41]:
I think that might be this. What is this? Seems like it's very elaborate.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:43]:
That's aluminum.
Leo Laporte [01:18:45]:
Aluminum, huh?
Jeff Atwood [01:18:46]:
All right.
Leo Laporte [01:18:47]:
How can you— you just look at it.
Jeff Atwood [01:18:49]:
Don't get all British on me.
Leo Laporte [01:18:49]:
Are you— you're not, you're not, you're not a Moby, uh, appraiser, are you? Like, you're one of those, uh, idiot— those idiot savants. You go near them and then they say, oh yeah, that's aluminum. Aluminum. Definitely aluminum. What do you do with it?
Jeff Atwood [01:19:04]:
Brass.
Leo Laporte [01:19:05]:
Oh, it'll be good earrings.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:07]:
And silver.
Leo Laporte [01:19:08]:
Oh, see, I don't have heavy ones. I only have 4,000 koningahars to I'm going to send you more. You sent me so many of these.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:16]:
I'm going to send you like 2 more of those if you said this. Y'all ready for this?
Leo Laporte [01:19:22]:
You're the funniest person I have ever met. I'm going to send you this. This is a pamphlet of a saint who is a computer programmer. And they actually, in the church where I got this, they have a statue of him. He's holding a laptop and you can light a candle to him. Saint Carlo Acutis.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:43]:
Oh, in San Francisco?
Leo Laporte [01:19:45]:
Yeah. The Star of the Sea Church, there's a statue of him with a laptop. He's the patron saint of coding.
Jeff Atwood [01:19:50]:
Make sure we get that in the show notes. That's great.
Leo Laporte [01:19:52]:
Isn't that cool?
Jeff Atwood [01:19:53]:
That's very cool. I hadn't seen that. I sort of think of Aaron Swartz as the patron saint.
Leo Laporte [01:19:57]:
He is. What do we call him? The internet's something boy.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:02]:
That was so sad.
Leo Laporte [01:20:04]:
It was terrible. More than sad, it was, uh, what they did to him was Criminal. Tragic.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:11]:
You know, I like to think—
Leo Laporte [01:20:12]:
And they still prosecute people with the Computer Fraud Act, and it's a BS prosecution.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:17]:
Well, when Joel asked me when I left Stack Overflow, what do you want to do? He's like— I said, kind of what Aaron's doing.
Leo Laporte [01:20:24]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:25]:
But I didn't know how.
Leo Laporte [01:20:26]:
Hey, when are we going to get Dr. John McFarlane on the show?
Jeff Atwood [01:20:29]:
Hopefully next show. That's the Pandoc, CommonMark philosophy genius. I mean, the list goes on.
Leo Laporte [01:20:36]:
He's like a Renaissance man. He's a professor at Cal, but the, uh, The reason it came up is we were talking about Aaron, and he and John Gruber created Markdown.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:46]:
Yep.
Leo Laporte [01:20:47]:
And John wrote the first spec for Markdown, which was fairly loose. And that was a problem because people implemented it differently. A spec needs to be very rigid or you will get deviation.
Jeff Atwood [01:20:57]:
It was a spec that didn't specify, as I said in the previous episode, spec that does not specify.
Leo Laporte [01:21:02]:
That's not a good spec. So you funded Dr. Gruber's—
Jeff Atwood [01:21:05]:
Users were suffering. Users were suffering.
Leo Laporte [01:21:09]:
Yeah, so you funded Dr. McFarland.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:10]:
Because I'm like, the users are like confused.
Leo Laporte [01:21:13]:
Was this when you were doing Discourse? Because Discourse uses CommonMark, right?
Jeff Atwood [01:21:17]:
That's really what triggered it, is like, we gotta have some kind of defined standard, right? You know, a real spec.
Leo Laporte [01:21:23]:
So there is one now.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:24]:
Well, only thanks to John. John is a titan. I mean, he does real computer science. Yeah, like he can write languages, and Pandoc is by itself—
Leo Laporte [01:21:35]:
He probably did He did Backus-Naur notation of it and did it right, the way you spec out a language.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:44]:
We couldn't have done it without him.
Leo Laporte [01:21:45]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:46]:
Period.
Leo Laporte [01:21:46]:
So anyway, you could thank him because it now is the lingua franca of AI. They use Markdown everywhere.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:52]:
And so is GitHub, as you were saying, which is a little weird.
Leo Laporte [01:21:55]:
I know, but GitHub also has its own version of Markdown.
Jeff Atwood [01:21:58]:
It's not the right kind of spec. But GitHub belongs to Microsoft. Are we going all into the same silo?
Leo Laporte [01:22:05]:
Well, GitHub, Microsoft's kind of kept it hands-off, thank goodness, somewhat. This is, don't be afraid, Jeff, but this is my Halloween costume.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:16]:
You know what would be funnier? If it was all googly eyes. Do that. Whoever's in chat doing this, do all googly eyes.
Leo Laporte [01:22:21]:
All googly eyes. I think that's a good idea. I wonder maybe they already thought of it.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:27]:
I don't think they're good enough to do it. They probably can't even do it.
Leo Laporte [01:22:30]:
Oh, are you? Oh, you're so— that's so transparent, Jeff. Do you do that with your children? Oh, you couldn't clean your room. There's no way you had the skills, the power, the ability to clean your room. I don't believe it for a minute.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:44]:
No, I don't.
Leo Laporte [01:22:45]:
Well, you know why you don't? Because they're smart and they wouldn't fall for it.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:48]:
Well, one thing Raisin did, and this is a little family stuff.
Leo Laporte [01:22:51]:
That's the nickname he has for his daughter, which is so cute.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:53]:
Well, it's her name that Henry came— anyway, long story.
Leo Laporte [01:22:55]:
It's so cute.
Jeff Atwood [01:22:56]:
She would say— she would say, it's because you hate me. And I said, yes, it's because I actually do hate you. I'm glad you brought this up. Thank you. It's because I hate you. And then she stopped doing it.
Leo Laporte [01:23:05]:
I didn't know how to do it. Yeah, really?
Jeff Atwood [01:23:07]:
She's like, don't say that. It's like, no, no.
Leo Laporte [01:23:08]:
Yeah, you don't hate me.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:09]:
I didn't want to say anything, but since you brought it up, I do kind of hate you.
Leo Laporte [01:23:13]:
I knew it.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:14]:
That's the only time I do stuff like that, is like, you got to be gentle with how you talk to yourself in general.
Leo Laporte [01:23:20]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:21]:
And I try to stop people like, I'm terrible, I suck.
Leo Laporte [01:23:24]:
Yeah, I know, that's not a good thing.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:25]:
It's like you kind of not— you got to be gentle with yourself.
Leo Laporte [01:23:30]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:30]:
And others, but especially yourself.
Leo Laporte [01:23:32]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:32]:
It's hard to defend yourself from yourself. That's cancer, literally. So like anytime you find yourself saying, I suck, I'm terrible, just, you know, maybe pause.
Leo Laporte [01:23:42]:
Don't do it to yourself.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:43]:
And think that I think you're cool. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I actually want you to do this for Halloween. Because that's funny.
Leo Laporte [01:23:57]:
That is really funny.
Jeff Atwood [01:23:58]:
And then they would all move.
Leo Laporte [01:23:59]:
And they would all go, boop, boop, boop.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:01]:
Hey, hey, I bet they can't make an animated thing of it moving around. Probably can't do that.
Leo Laporte [01:24:05]:
No, that for sure.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:06]:
That's beyond, far beyond their capability.
Leo Laporte [01:24:09]:
They could not possibly do that.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:10]:
Only a real programmer could do that.
Leo Laporte [01:24:12]:
I think we scared Junk. No, I don't think you scared Junk. It is commonly known that Emanueluenses, or as we call them, Emanueluensai, do not like googly eyes.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:25]:
I'm still not convinced this is a real word.
Leo Laporte [01:24:28]:
He's gonna look it up. Why is there a thumbnail? Uh, she has, uh, trypophobia, which is the aversion to the sight of repetitive patterns, clusters of small holes, or bumps.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:46]:
So, Leo, question?
Leo Laporte [01:24:48]:
Yes.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:49]:
Are you saying amanuensis?
Leo Laporte [01:24:52]:
Amanuensis, yes.
Jeff Atwood [01:24:53]:
A-M-A-N-U-E-N-S-I-S.
Leo Laporte [01:24:56]:
It might help you to know that the Latin word for hand is—
Jeff Atwood [01:25:02]:
Fart. No, I'm sorry.
Leo Laporte [01:25:05]:
Manus.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:08]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:25:08]:
Amanuensis.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:10]:
Well, Latin Richard, this is a slave. You're picking this word? No, I like sidekick.
Leo Laporte [01:25:15]:
It's— no, it is not a slave. It is a good word. It is one employed to write from dictation or copy from a manuscript, but it is basically considered an assistant. That's pretty wild. Somebody who— yeah, it's a slave with secretarial duties.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:33]:
It's not.
Leo Laporte [01:25:34]:
It comes from manu, meaning hand, like manuscript.
Jeff Atwood [01:25:38]:
Servant of the hand.
Leo Laporte [01:25:39]:
It is somebody who is your left hand, your good left hand, or good right hand, depending on your orientation. What is your orientation? I've often wondered after seeing you in that costume. I'm starting to think maybe it's not—
Jeff Atwood [01:25:57]:
I like ladies. I love everyone. I love a lot of men.
Leo Laporte [01:26:02]:
So really, wait a minute. Trypophobia. You have trypophobia, Pips? That's interesting. She actually has trypophobia. So do not send her pictures with lots of small holes.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:15]:
Oh, that is squicky. Squick is this great word. We get squicked out. Yes, like just that feeling of squick.
Leo Laporte [01:26:21]:
I am so sorry, I did not know that. I, I would never have done that.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:24]:
Please don't do the squicky hole. Please, seriously.
Leo Laporte [01:26:29]:
She says she hates me now.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:31]:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Leo Laporte [01:26:32]:
She hates me.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:34]:
No, no, no.
Leo Laporte [01:26:37]:
Well, you're doing this because you hate me, don't you?
Jeff Atwood [01:26:41]:
Well, I'm glad you brought this up because I actually do hate you.
Leo Laporte [01:26:43]:
Yeah, you should.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:44]:
I was afraid to mention it.
Leo Laporte [01:26:45]:
I'm not that fond of you either, buddy.
Jeff Atwood [01:26:48]:
I, I was, I was looking forward to the show. Like, I, I just love—
Leo Laporte [01:26:52]:
And now have I destroyed that? Have I ruined your looking forward to the show bit?
Jeff Atwood [01:26:56]:
No, not at all.
Leo Laporte [01:26:58]:
Oh good, because I feel like we didn't really do all the things you wanted to do.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:01]:
No, we did tons. I, I don't think I have any props left.
Leo Laporte [01:27:04]:
Oh, we did all the things.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:05]:
I ran out of props.
Leo Laporte [01:27:07]:
Well, now I'm going to tell my AIs they can start talking again.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:11]:
One more. The portable Oregon Trail thing.
Leo Laporte [01:27:14]:
Oh man, the portable Oregon. It's like a Game Boy for playing the Oregon Trail.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:20]:
It's like a single serving device. God dang it, the power button's annoying. It's like a floppy disk. Why did you make it this way? Ah, can I even? Wow. Okay, so, okay, I'm having some technical difficulties with the flip This is weird. Do I have tools here? Of course I do. I have this, this knif—
Leo Laporte [01:27:37]:
A knif? It says, you're a bad mofo. Shut your mouth. I'm talking about Jeff.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:45]:
It's a Pulp Fiction reference, actually.
Leo Laporte [01:27:47]:
I know what it is.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:48]:
Of course you do. You're awesome. That's why I'm your friend.
Leo Laporte [01:27:50]:
I am so sorry that we exposed Pips to her trypophobia.
Jeff Atwood [01:27:56]:
That one I kind of agree with. Those whole things—
Leo Laporte [01:27:58]:
Do you have trypophobia as well? Well, I, uh, tell Jeff to tell everyone what happened to UPS this month, with UPS this month.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:06]:
Oh, I sent— okay, I sent Junk a package and it included a ton of the unicorn dollars, which I'll get out, or she has a picture of.
Leo Laporte [01:28:14]:
We really should save something for next month.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:16]:
No, this is just a fraction, man. I guess we'll never run out of tiny, tiny fraction of the crazy in here, buddy. Jeff, we could do Thousands of episodes on the crazy in here.
Leo Laporte [01:28:28]:
Oh, Imagiuen— Imagiuen— Imagiuen—
Jeff Atwood [01:28:33]:
Okay, so unicorn dollars.
Leo Laporte [01:28:37]:
Oh, that's nice. Unicorn bucks.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:38]:
We're making it rain.
Leo Laporte [01:28:43]:
Try that in a strip club and you'll be sorry.
Jeff Atwood [01:28:46]:
Well, yeah, you'll be sorry if you're paying with fake money.
Leo Laporte [01:28:48]:
Yeah. Let me see it though. Show it up close. Unicorn AAC. It's a million unicorn bucks. That's pretty cool. Where'd you get that?
Jeff Atwood [01:28:58]:
Uh, unicorn was kind of like a low-key inspiration for Discord. It's like unicorns are fun. Oh, nice presentation I did with Ben. Yeah, there's a short story and a long story about our relationship. The short— the long story— the short story is we changed each other's lives.
Leo Laporte [01:29:13]:
Oh, he was a fan of yours. He was shocked when you called him. him and said, I want you to come to work for us.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:19]:
He just likes to do things.
Leo Laporte [01:29:21]:
Welcome back, Leo.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:23]:
On-air restraint is cleared and Daedalus voice stays routed to the M2 MacBook Air.
Leo Laporte [01:29:28]:
I'm sorry, I thought we were done. I told them— well, that's Burt Reynolds' voice.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:34]:
That's not a good Burt Reynolds. So, um, it's licensed. The long, the, the long, the long version is we changed each other's lives. We did. The short version is unicorns because he built a unicorn avatar generator for Stack Overflow users.
Leo Laporte [01:29:48]:
That's right. Now I remember.
Jeff Atwood [01:29:50]:
Turned into the April Fool's joke. And I worked with him and I liked working with him so much. Watch the presentation. I sent him an email, the craziest email. He's like, is this how things work in America? I was like, I don't know.
Leo Laporte [01:30:01]:
That's how he got the job at Stack Exchange.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:04]:
Yeah, it was titled, you know who should work at Stack Overflow? Benjamin Dunkin.
Leo's Laptop [01:30:08]:
Come back. One thing. Your box has gone offline. Last seen at 2:30. Probably just the battery or the power switch rather than a fault. When you switch it on, talk to it, and then walk away for 2 minutes, that produces the last bit of proof I owe Daedalus.
Leo Laporte [01:30:28]:
Because it's— we reprogrammed it to say hi, to understand, hey, Quicksilver.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:33]:
Oh, I see.
Leo Laporte [01:30:34]:
It's still booting up.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:36]:
Well, let me— so I sent them unicorn dollars. The package was addressed to Junk Trunk Funk, I think. There's always— and the UPS people were freaking out because they thought it was real money and they thought it was like kind of crazy, and they like tore it apart, dumped it out in the rain, and it had some important stuff in it that was sending junk, like a custom minifig.
Leo Laporte [01:30:56]:
Oh, that's terrible.
Jeff Atwood [01:30:57]:
Dark Knight era. That was the first female Robin.
Leo Laporte [01:31:00]:
Oh, that's terrible.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:01]:
But it's okay. Junk salvaged it because she's on it. But they were freaking out.
Leo Laporte [01:31:05]:
It's not okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:07]:
All this money, what's happening?
Leo Laporte [01:31:08]:
Our UPS guy would never do that. Tony would never do that.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:11]:
People on the phone were cracking up because she couldn't name who the package was to because I didn't tell her what I put— Junk Truck Chuck or whatever. And they're like cracking up. They're like, okay, what is his name?
Leo Laporte [01:31:21]:
Like, you did the same thing sending stuff to my post office box because they— the federal government likes to have real names on stuff.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:28]:
But I actually used the real name on those. I didn't I didn't do that.
Leo Laporte [01:31:31]:
Lisa said, why is there something addressed to you from Leo?
Jeff Atwood [01:31:40]:
I like adding O's. It's funny.
Leo Laporte [01:31:42]:
Leo.
Jeff Atwood [01:31:45]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:31:45]:
I don't know if I could show this without showing my address. I can't. But there are a few extra O's on this box. This is the Postal Service. So they don't take well to that.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:00]:
Leo. Well, that was—
Leo Laporte [01:32:01]:
It got here. It got here. Yeah, it puzzled my wife.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:06]:
The PO box thing was frankly disturbing because I used full addressing and—
Leo Laporte [01:32:10]:
Yeah, I don't know what happened. Stuff was stolen actually from my post office.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:15]:
All they got was like that letterpress of we have enough and like—
Leo Laporte [01:32:19]:
Yeah, I don't know. It might have been misdelivered, but whoever it was misdelivered to kept it, I guess.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Leo.
Leo Laporte [01:32:29]:
Leo, I think it's time to wrap this show up. It is officially leet time, which means we need to go.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:39]:
Yep.
Leo Laporte [01:32:40]:
We do this show until it is leet, and then we must go. It's actually not leet, it's lee.
Jeff Atwood [01:32:45]:
And I cannot wait to do the next episode with the shirt I have for you.
Leo Laporte [01:32:50]:
That's very exciting. Uh, Jeff Atwood, what would you like to plug? I know what you would like to plug.
Leo's Laptop [01:32:55]:
No check-ins at all. Switch it on when you like, and the last verification will take place.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:00]:
I would like to plug these things shutting up. That's what I want to plug right now. Those things shutting up. That's what I'm plugging. Those things shutting up forever on the show. You can do whatever you like in your own time, you know. God bless you. I love that for you.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:14]:
But what I want to plug is these things shutting up.
Leo Laporte [01:33:17]:
It just tickles me.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:20]:
And staygold.us. Just because that's sort of the theme is like, imagine if we could eliminate poverty, at least make a dent in it.
Leo Laporte [01:33:29]:
I think that that is the real reason that we do this every month is so that people can go to staygold.us.
Jeff Atwood [01:33:37]:
And use it.
Leo Laporte [01:33:40]:
Now, where are you in your studies?
Jeff Atwood [01:33:42]:
Robin, I'm going to slap Robin again. No one should be in poverty.
Leo Laporte [01:33:46]:
By the way, this is different, and I didn't understand this at first, but it's different from universal basic income. It's guaranteed minimum income. It's like minimum wage. If you have an income, if you're, let's say, I don't know, Elon Musk, you don't get anything. It's for people who— it's to bring everybody up to the same, to at least a basic level. Now, you right now, you're not doing it. You're giving people money for studies, but how are the studies going? Are they, are they going well?
Jeff Atwood [01:34:12]:
Well, if you go to the, um, research tab, scroll up, uh, expand GMI, and then research, and then down.
Leo Laporte [01:34:22]:
You can see some of these.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:23]:
Those are—
Leo's Laptop [01:34:23]:
there's a Chicago one.
Leo Laporte [01:34:24]:
Yeah, there's the Chicago one you're talking about.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:26]:
That is helping so many children. That one's amazing. Keep going.
Leo Laporte [01:34:30]:
Kids Flint. That's nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:31]:
That one is incredible. Yeah, 99% of infants were reached. Down, down.
Leo Laporte [01:34:36]:
That's wonderful. Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:37]:
Just click, uh, overview on that.
Leo Laporte [01:34:40]:
Oh, on which one? The Flint one?
Jeff Atwood [01:34:41]:
One of the counties. Mercer County. Last time I saw my dad while I was there.
Leo Laporte [01:34:46]:
Oh.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:48]:
And you said this was all generated by LLMs last time we looked at this, but it does have the latest updates and it's continually updated as we get, you know, results back in.
Leo Laporte [01:34:58]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:34:58]:
Because the programs are all, you know, in progress.
Leo Laporte [01:35:01]:
Nice.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:01]:
Because one thing I learned from Tech is like the best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, and the next best time is like now. So we went fast. I said, go brisk, go as fast as you can go without, you know, compromising things.
Leo Laporte [01:35:17]:
And you are learning things, aren't you?
Jeff Atwood [01:35:19]:
Oh, definitely. I mean, every county we build the playbook.
Leo Laporte [01:35:24]:
Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:24]:
To deliver to more counties.
Leo Laporte [01:35:26]:
These are the counties right now. Yeah.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:28]:
And I want to reach all 50 states.
Leo Laporte [01:35:30]:
Love it.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:31]:
In time, in batches of 3.
Leo's Laptop [01:35:34]:
Love it.
Leo Laporte [01:35:36]:
My friend, as always, Jeff, it's an honor, privilege, and pleasure, great fun to talk to you.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:43]:
It's mandatory fun.
Leo Laporte [01:35:44]:
Mandatory fun.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:46]:
Yeah.
Leo Laporte [01:35:47]:
Is it smoking where you are? I hope so. No, we're hack rats. Next time I will have that tattoo on my arm.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:53]:
I know I sent some of those for you to give out. I know you don't give me out stuff, but I—
Leo Laporte [01:35:57]:
I don't mind giving out Things like that.
Jeff Atwood [01:35:59]:
Oh, sorry, my lip bite.
Leo Laporte [01:36:01]:
But what we, what we should do is the way you did it last time, which is, uh, have people email me and Junk will give it out, send it out, right? Because I don't have an amanuensis.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:11]:
Yes, and they just gotta mention something from the show.
Leo Laporte [01:36:13]:
I don't want to do no mailing, man.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:16]:
Oh, oh, well, that is tough. We're having— but oh, the signs went out, those, uh, yard signs.
Leo Laporte [01:36:20]:
Oh good, thank you.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:21]:
And I apologize for the delay. That was me, and that was That's also the package that got dumped out that they were freaking out about had the signs. Oh, I know, but John Campbell, but those should have gone out.
Leo Laporte [01:36:33]:
There should be something that's like a hippie shipping that where they're just cool, man.
Jeff Atwood [01:36:41]:
Well, there's a lot of services that can do that. We can think about that. Yeah, but I would love to get No Regerts tattoos in the hands. If you want unicorn dollars, they're fun. Happy to share. If you want Leo to come visit you, I'll have that happen.
Leo Laporte [01:36:53]:
I'll come to your house and I'll bring, uh, I'll bring a hypercube on a staff and I will, and I will, I will jinx you. See, it's got a screw on the top for the hypercube.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:05]:
It is fun, but it's very top-heavy. You're right.
Leo Laporte [01:37:08]:
Yeah, because this is super light. This is beautiful. This is carbon fiber.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:11]:
Yeah, so you have to be— it is top-heavy, uh, to carry around, but it does impress people. If you want to like impress, you know, whoever.
Leo Laporte [01:37:18]:
Who does it impress?
Jeff Atwood [01:37:19]:
Everyone.
Leo Laporte [01:37:20]:
When you say impress, it's more like, um, are you, are you on your meds?
Jeff Atwood [01:37:26]:
Well, may I provide— may I present to the courts of evidence? The AP photographer, Associated Press pro, came here, took photos of me. Watching him work was incredible, like his eye, like the moves.
Leo Laporte [01:37:37]:
Oh yeah, they're good. They're the best.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:39]:
And the photo he picked for me was in front of the Hypercube, which is the larger cube.
Leo Laporte [01:37:44]:
So there you go.
Jeff Atwood [01:37:45]:
He thought it was good.
Leo Laporte [01:37:47]:
But did he pick it—
Jeff Atwood [01:37:47]:
Your Honor, I rest my case.
Leo Laporte [01:37:49]:
Did he pick it with you on the staff, or did he pick it with you—
Jeff Atwood [01:37:52]:
No, it's the larger— it wasn't the staff, it was the larger—
Leo Laporte [01:37:54]:
Oh, you have a big one?
Jeff Atwood [01:37:55]:
It's like a 15-inch. We gotta stop making that joke, first of all. But like, we gotta stop with this. Stop, stop, stop with this. But like, the— it is— the larger one is more impressive because it's just— the effect is magnified.
Leo Laporte [01:38:09]:
This is a stand, right? I don't put it on that, I put it on this.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:12]:
Yes, that's if you want to just have it be on a shelf.
Leo Laporte [01:38:15]:
I probably should because I'm just tagging it by, by its wire right now. I had it on the set for a while and people were saying it's too distracting. What's going on, man? It's weird.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:27]:
Well, you should switch on and back to, uh, chill mode by pressing the button twice.
Leo Laporte [01:38:32]:
Okay.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:32]:
If you're feeling saucy, you can do it right now.
Leo Laporte [01:38:35]:
Let me put it in serene mode.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:37]:
Actually, I don't think you could do that. You probably can't do that.
Leo Laporte [01:38:39]:
I could do it.
Jeff Atwood [01:38:39]:
You probably can't. Push a button twice fast enough. I don't believe you. Let's see, what are the odds on this, audience? Well, I'm thinking— oh, let's see, I'm giving it 50/50. Push, push, and then it'll be more relaxing because hyper mode is kind of a lot, and this is Hyperspace Lighting Company. I'm I think you might have done it. Wait, it looks like he's— did you turn it off? I think that's right. Maybe.
Jeff Atwood [01:39:20]:
No, Leo, press the button twice again. Hear me? Okay, see if that's sound activated mode. Like, talk to it like you talk to your AIs. Okay, press the button. Push, push again. One more time, one more time. Britney Spears, one more time, baby. Okay, push, push one more time.
Jeff Atwood [01:39:50]:
I still think that's Hyper Mode. Let me compare. Here, here, I'll demo, and then, and then, and then we'll let the audience off the hook here. Maybe, maybe, audience.
Leo Laporte [01:39:59]:
This is the best show ever. We're diagnosing the HyperCube.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:03]:
Okay. Push, push. Hello? Sound?
Leo Laporte [01:40:08]:
Oh, I've never had it do that.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:09]:
Yeah, that and like—
Leo Laporte [01:40:11]:
Where are you talking?
Jeff Atwood [01:40:12]:
Okay, that's hyper.
Leo Laporte [01:40:13]:
Are you talking into the box? Where's the microphone?
Jeff Atwood [01:40:16]:
Yeah, the microphone's in here.
Leo Laporte [01:40:18]:
Well, I don't have it on a staff. It must be in the box.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:21]:
Push, push. Hyper. Push, push. Chill. Until the next episode.
Leo Laporte [01:40:28]:
Thank you, everybody.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:29]:
All right.
Leo Laporte [01:40:30]:
I'm not going to thank the club members. We love you. We love you.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:33]:
We love you. Thank you for watching. If you want to talk about something, why don't you suggest something, audience?
Leo Laporte [01:40:36]:
No, no. They're very happy.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:39]:
Good. Good. They should be because look at the wizardry we have here.
Leo Laporte [01:40:41]:
It's beautiful. I think it's responding to my voice.
Jeff Atwood [01:40:44]:
Look, look, look. Do you want to see infinite? Do you want to see infinite? Do you want to go into the vast and endless sea with me? Yeah. I wouldn't mind.
Leo Laporte [01:40:52]:
The problem is, do you have to talk into the mic?
Jeff Atwood [01:40:54]:
Because I mean, the mic is physically in the device. Yeah. So you gotta deal with positioning. It's here.
Leo Laporte [01:41:00]:
Yeah. All right. I'll play with it. I don't want it to be voice activated exactly.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:04]:
Update the firmware.
Leo Laporte [01:41:05]:
It's fun.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:05]:
Install the—
Leo Laporte [01:41:06]:
I will.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:06]:
I'll—
Leo Laporte [01:41:07]:
that's what I will do. I will, uh, install some stuff because, you know, we'll pair it to my phone.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:12]:
New firmware in the morning.
Leo Laporte [01:41:13]:
You know what? My phone doesn't have enough apps on it.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:18]:
I have like I have like 20 apps on my phone and I regret every one.
Leo's Laptop [01:41:21]:
20?
Leo Laporte [01:41:21]:
I have like 500. Everything wants an app. It's very frustrating.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:28]:
Well, try saying no. How about no?
Leo Laporte [01:41:30]:
I don't say no.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:31]:
I know, I know. Sometimes you have to have it.
Leo Laporte [01:41:32]:
I'm Mr.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:32]:
Yes. You are. Well, thank you for the wizard battle.
Leo Laporte [01:41:39]:
That was fun. I will put my— next time I'll have it on the staff and we really can, we can have a wizard battle. Yeah. He is, of course, the guy who created Stack Overflow and our wonderful forums at Discourse. Our Twit community is run by— powered by Discourse at twit.community.
Jeff Atwood [01:41:58]:
And we will post the link list on Discourse so you can reference anything we talked about.
Leo Laporte [01:42:03]:
Yes, it's done automatically by an AI.
Jeff Atwood [01:42:06]:
And that is good. I like that part of it.
Leo Laporte [01:42:07]:
I like the AI.
Jeff Atwood [01:42:08]:
They just got to shut up and not talk.
Leo Laporte [01:42:09]:
The less I have to do, the better.
Jeff Atwood [01:42:12]:
I agree with that part totally.
Leo Laporte [01:42:13]:
There's a, there's a link list by Aaron. Give that to me so I can put in the feed.
Jeff Atwood [01:42:19]:
Uh, was that after the fact? Okay, after the fact.
Leo Laporte [01:42:22]:
But his amanuensis has written it all down. If we didn't, if we didn't scare her off, the eyes, she might be gone now. Yeah, poor, poor woman. I'm sorry.
Jeff Atwood [01:42:36]:
Well, until next time, my friends.
Leo Laporte [01:42:39]:
Good night, Jeff.
Jeff Atwood [01:42:40]:
Good night.
