Tech News Weekly 409 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Mikah Sargent [00:00:00]:
Coming up on Tech News Weekly, Jennifer Pattison Tuohy is here. We kick off the show talking about the iPad, the new iPad, and how it has a chip that's going to help you with your smart home. Afterward, we talk about California's new law aimed at providing a warning label for teens accessing social media. Afterwards, Dan Moran of Six Colors stops by to give us the rundown of all the new stuff Apple announced. And I round things out talking about Instagram's new PG13 guidelines, 14 accounts on the platform. All of that coming up on Tech News Weekly.

Mikah Sargent [00:00:47]:
This is Tech News Weekly, episode 409 with Jennifer Pattison Tuohy and me, Mikah Sargent. Recorded Thursday, October 16, 2025: Apple's New M5 MacBook and iPad Pro. Hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where every week we talk to and about the people making and breaking that tech news. It is October, the spookiest month, and I am joined by a wonderful guest, a ghostly presence here. No, it's Jennifer Pattison Tuohy. Hello, Jen.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:01:24]:
I am wearing white.

Mikah Sargent [00:01:25]:
Yeah, that's what I was going for at the end.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:01:27]:
Can be the ghost. I do wish I'd had time to go find my witch's hat though. Next time it'll be November next year. I'll prepare next time.

Mikah Sargent [00:01:40]:
So this of course is the part of the show where we talk about our stories of the week. Later in the episode I will be talking to someone about the overall announcements from Apple that just hit this week. But as is the way of things, I'm very excited to be joined by Jen who is our expert on all things home, home automation and everything therein. Tell us about your story of the week.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:02:09]:
Yeah, so I like everyone else, eagerly awaited, not tuned in because press releases Apple's announcements this week and there was some hope that we may see a new Apple TV. Maybe HomePod mini 2 didn't get any of that, but for any smart home enthusiast there was a glimmer of hope very hidden. But I wrote a piece about it this week. The new iPad. So the iPad Pro M5 is the first iPad to officially support thread. Now thread is the smart home protocol that matter runs over. It's a protocol that Apple has used for a while starting with the HomePod mini back in 2022 when that launched. So I think that was the date I my head is too many numbers in my head right now.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:03:04]:
But when the HomePod mini launched, that's when Apple first used thread in its smart home. And now what's so interesting about this is that the new iPad Pro has Apple's new N1 wireless networking chip. And that if in case you missed it, which you probably did because it wasn't widely covered when the iPhone 17 launched in September, that was launched along with this new wireless networking chip. And this is Apple Design's chip. And it has Wi Fi 7, Bluetooth 6 and Thread all combined on one chip. And this is what I would call a smart home powerhouse chip. It has everything you need. For a matter, smart home connectivity really is like, okay, this chip will make a perfect smart home hub.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:03:52]:
And everyone's like, well, the iPad is not a smart home hub. It is not. So there are two things I wrote about in this article. One is that the new iPad Pro with the N1 wireless chip is kind of could potentially sort of foreshadow what we're going to see in the new Apple TV and the new HomePod Mini 2, which may launch sometime this year. Although the sort of prevailing theory is that they may be waiting on the Mini for the new Siri. So next spring is more likely, but we may well see an Apple TV sooner than that, especially as they just rebranded Apple TV plus to Apple tv. Big change. But now we've got two products called Apple tv.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:04:41]:
Well, actually three, because there's also the app and then the service and then the device. So to me I'm like, just call the Apple TV an Apple Home Hub. That would make so much sense. So I was kind of thinking, oh, maybe we're going to get that. So who knows? This is just all my speculation, but when we do get a new Apple tv, I would be very surprised if it didn't have this new wireless networking chip. And this chip is kind of exciting because like I said, it sort of has everything you need for a smart home hub. And Apple Home has right now, HomePods, HomePod minis and some Apple TVs are home hubs. And this means you can run your smart home automations, control it away from home using the Apple Home app.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:05:28]:
Without a home hub, you can still use Apple Home, but you have more limited control when you're. You can't control it when you're away from home automations, won't run if you're not at home. So you need one of these in your home. And the iPad used to be a home hub until Apple switched over to a new HomeKit architecture a couple years ago and then it deprecated the iPad as a home hub. This could indicate that they might bring back that capability, which I know a lot of people missed, because not everyone wants to have a HomePod mini or an Apple TV, but they still might want to run Apple Home automation. So having an iPad in your home that can do that for you would be a nice thing. So potentially having the N1 chip in here could mean Apple is going to bring back that functionality. Has not been confirmed.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:06:17]:
I did reach out to Apple, have not heard back, but the fact that Thread is in there means it would be an easy lift. One of the reasons it hasn't been a home hub in the past or why they deprecated, I think is because iPads don't always stay in the home.

Mikah Sargent [00:06:31]:
Right?

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:06:31]:
So when you take your home hub away from your home, things can go wrong. So, you know, it's a sort of toss up there. But it's interesting, I think, that they're bringing Thread to it. We do know that based on reporting that I did last year, that there are thread rodeos in nearly all the other iPads and all the Macs, but none of them have actually been activated. Apple's never publicly acknowledged that they're there. We just found evidence of it in FCC filings. So this is the first iPad that publicly lists support for Thread. So I'm excited to see what Apple's going to do with this.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:07:09]:
One of the so Apple does have Thread in iPad in iPhones, all the iPhones, all the iPhone 17, most of the 16 and then the pro lines of the 15s all have thread radios and just sort of the main I've gone off on why I'm excited about this chip, but actually what it can do most likely, and this is what the iPhone can do with Thread Radio, is it can control thread devices locally. So when you go buy a new Thread Smart lock, you will be able to set it up using your iPad and not have to have a thread border router. And this has been a real kind of pain point as people have been adopting the Smart Home and the new Matter Smart Home standard and Thread devices is like, what's a Thread border router? Why do I have to have one? What if I don't have one? Now? If you have an iPad Pro with the newest one, you wouldn't necessarily need a threadboarder adder to set up your smart home device. So that's kind of overall what I got excited about from the announcement. I know most people are probably more excited about the new MacBook, but I was like, yay, Thread.

Mikah Sargent [00:08:17]:
Yeah. So this is something That I actually was asked about when the new phones came out and I was doing my review was kind of why is this chip in there and what does it provide for someone who is thinking about getting into or adding Thread devices? And that was the main thing which you just talked about there, which is can you talk about the difference between a Thread device, that is a child device, versus a thread border router, the iPhone, it's my understanding is the full experience.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:09:03]:
Right.

Mikah Sargent [00:09:04]:
As a HomePod mini or another device would be. Whereas something like this little friend I have here, which is a little EVE sensor, it does not have the capability to kind of be a node. Right. In the thread.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:09:20]:
Right.

Mikah Sargent [00:09:21]:
Thread network. And then maybe could you also tell the listeners a little bit about the difference in Thread versus what we're used to with wireless networking, where the more you have in Thread's case, the stronger and more robust versus the other, where that interference is an issue.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:09:41]:
Yeah. So to your first question, as I mentioned, one of the core issues use cases here of having Thread in a mobile device like an iPad or a phone is that you can use it to set up a device, you know, so that you take away that friction of like, I just bought this new lock and I can't use it because that's not a great experience. But what it can also do, and this is something that I had an Apple executive talk to me about who's the head of the Thread group. And so I know this one for a fact because you know, Apple is very wishy washy about answering questions. Is that because it is battery powered and because many devices on Thread are battery powered, this is one of the benefits of Thread. It's a low power smart home protocol, so it doesn't drain power from a device like say WI Fi will. If you've ever had a WI fi smart lock, you'll know you've been changing the batteries every three months. If you have a Thread smart lock, it will last up to about a year.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:10:43]:
We're still testing to see exactly how long I've been getting on these new thread locks. But that's one of the benefits. If your Internet goes down and your power is out, you have a Thread radio in your iPhone or your iPad, you can still control battery powered devices because it can establish a direct connection over Thread a lot like Bluetooth, it's actually, it does, it shares a lot with Bluetooth in terms of connectivity.

Mikah Sargent [00:11:12]:
Are they cousins or are they sisters?

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:11:14]:
So, well, so the key I've opened.

Mikah Sargent [00:11:18]:
Up a can of worms.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:11:19]:
The key difference and this goes to your other question. Why thread in the smart home is that Thread is a self healing mesh network. Now Bluetooth there you can see Bluetooth mesh networking. It's not that common. Most Bluetooth devices a point to point, you know, like earbuds or a keyboard or you know, there even, you know, some, some smart lights run on Bluetooth mesh. But in general it's more point to point. Thread is a self healing mesh network. And to your question about why it's so this is what makes it so good for the smart home is the more devices you have, the stronger that mesh network is.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:11:56]:
So they, they the signal can hop like zigbee or a Z wave mesh network can hop from device to device. And your little eve, that's an Eve outdoor sensor, right?

Mikah Sargent [00:12:08]:
Or indoor sensors.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:12:10]:
Yeah, yeah. There's the outdoor one and the indoor one that is an end device. So it's not powered, not plugged in, permanently powered, it's battery powered. So it can receive signals but it can't pass on signals. But any thread node that is powered so like a light bulb or a smart plug can pass on the signal so that the more devices you have, the stronger your network. A thread border router is a always plugged in device. So it's going to be something like a HomePod mini or a Apple TV and it takes the signal from devices and translates it to other networks. So it helps thread connect to the Internet because thread is an entirely local mesh network.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:13:00]:
Just like Bluetooth is entirely local, it doesn't have an integral connection to the Internet. It needs a thread border router to send that signal. And that's why Apple introduced the HomePod mini to be a thread border router in order to connect thread smart home devices to the Internet. So you can control them away from home, but you can use thread entirely locally in your home and not have any Internet connection and just control it directly from your phone or now your iPad.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:30]:
Oof. There's a lot to.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:13:32]:
Sorry.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:32]:
No, no.

Mikah Sargent [00:13:33]:
And that's okay because that's how complicated it is. Absolutely. But the good news is when it comes to this kind of a thing, it's been my experience that on my end the stuff really is just working. There was a period of time where things were a little bit confusing for the devices on my network because I had EERO running its own thread network and that, you know, it was not trying to play ball with that was sort of doing thread over home kits and it got a little messy. But then I was able to kind of say you know what, I'm just starting fresh. We're just going to do this from the top and then everything from there seems to have kind of locked in and it's been a pretty great experience.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:14:18]:
That has been one of the big problems with Thread is that border router issue. And actually with iOS 26, Apple introduced the Thread 1.4 which allows border routers from different manufacturers to merge. So you can actually have an Apple home thread network in your home with a HomePod mini, a Google Nest Hub and a Now because SmartThings just added support for this as well, a SmartThings Aotech smart home hub, all working together in harmony to keep your smart home strong. We're still waiting on Amazon, which is the Eero and the Echo Devices. They do not support this merging of Thread networks yet, but that's coming. So, yeah, it's exciting. It's all coming together.

Mikah Sargent [00:15:09]:
Finally. Finally. All right, we have to take a quick break before we come back with my story of the week, joined this week by Jennifer Pattison Tuohy. Let me tell you about our sponsor, Zapier, bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. I love Zapier. Zapier is super, super cool. We were just talking about home automation and this is, this is your automation platform for everything else. You know, a lot of people talking about AI.

Mikah Sargent [00:15:33]:
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Mikah Sargent [00:16:23]:
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Mikah Sargent [00:17:09]:
Ready to join them? Get started for free by visiting zapier.com TNW that's Z-A-P-I-E-R.com/tnw and of course we thank Zapier for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All right, we are back from the break. As I mentioned, joined this week by Jennifer Pattison Tuohy. I want to talk about California, which is a big state. Yeah, big old state that is often. Thank you. Responsible for shaping laws across the country. California just became the second state in the nation to require social media platforms to display health warning labels to users under 18 years of age.

Mikah Sargent [00:17:52]:
Governor Gavin Newsom signed the legislation into law this week, making a significant escalation in the ongoing battle between state regulators and tech giants over youth safety online. Now, these warnings will alert young users that social media can have a profound risk of harm to the mental health and well being of children and adolescents. Language borrowed directly from a 2023 report by former US Surgeon General Vivek Murthy. It's bold move, almost certain to end up in court, but it signals just how seriously states are taking the mounting research that seemed to link social media use to anxiety, body dysmorphia and sleep disruption in young people. I'd argue that sleep disruption is not just for young people. I certainly have found myself doing an Instagram scroll late at night and going, I need to go to bed. In any case, California's AB 56, authored by Democratic assembly member Rebecca Bauer K hand targets major platforms like Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and quick kind of understanding of how the warning system works. So when a user under 18 first logs in each day, so when they visit the app each day, they'll see a skippable 10 second warning.

Mikah Sargent [00:19:06]:
If they spend more than three hours on the platform, an unskippable 30 second warning appears and that 30 second warning will repeat after each additional hour of use. So my first thing that I kind of want to talk about here is when I think of these sort of Surgeon General's warnings. Right. They are these blocks of text that use direct language, but often, you know, relatively adult language. And by that, I mean, it's sophisticated language to tell you, you know, this. The cigarettes that you're buying are going to kill you. The alcohol that you're buying could have this impact or that impact. What is interesting here is seeing this warning being created for and provided to kids.

Mikah Sargent [00:20:09]:
This seems unique to me where it's not a warning that is for an adult, but instead is being displayed when a child is using the app. And it makes me think, do we think it's gonna go over their heads? Like, what. What do we think about this doing in terms of having an impact? Is it more actually for the adult who helps the child, like, get started in the day? Or are we looking at people sort of in the older age, 13 to 17, as opposed to kind of the younger kids?

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:20:43]:
Yeah, Well, I mean, technically, I think. Isn't you. Technically, I've used this phrase before. You have to be 13 to be Internet legal. Right, Right. Right. So to actually have any of these accounts use Facebook or Instagram, and I know this is going back to a year or so because my daughter just turned 14. So I remember when she turned 13, there was a sort of big change in.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:21:06]:
In how she could use certain apps. But now there's. So, yeah, I think this is more targeted at tweet teenagers rather than younger kids. I mean, I can't imagine. I don't see the appeal of things like Instagram for, you know, babies.

Mikah Sargent [00:21:22]:
That's fair. That's. Yeah.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:21:23]:
Small kids for babies, Instagram for babies.

Mikah Sargent [00:21:27]:
Bluey.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:21:28]:
Maybe some bluey warnings.

Mikah Sargent [00:21:30]:
Yeah, well, it's YouTube.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:21:31]:
Right, well, YouTube. And then there's YouTube Kids, which is not good. So in terms of not. It's not a. I mean, you'd think, oh, great, this is safe for kids. But I think this is definitely targeted at teenagers. I think also, to be fair, a lot of those warnings on cigarette packets and alcohol are also targeted at kids, even though they're not allowed to technically use those products. We obviously know that a lot of teenagers do.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:22:01]:
An interesting note, for anyone that hasn't been to England in a while, cigarette packets in England are covered in. In. They don't just have a little warning. They have these really graphic images of body parts that have been destroyed by cancer. It's very powerful. And I think, you know, one of the things that might be quite powerful about this is it's going to be more visual rather than just a text warning, like you mentioned before having something that is like a visual warning that isn't just read this, it's going to be better for your health type of thing is more impactful for sure. And especially for younger kids. One of, I think my, my issue with all of this, and this may be controversial is it feels like a bit of a knee jerk reaction that's not really solving the problem.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:22:53]:
And when you get to the issue of the problem, it's in the word social. It's social media. The problem is society. It's not apps, it's not technology. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and we had a wave of anorexia problems with girls of my age growing up because of the promotion of those stick thing kind of 90s heroin Chicago models that were all over magazines and, and movies and TV shows. You know, children absorb society through the means that we put it out.

Mikah Sargent [00:23:41]:
Right.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:23:41]:
And you know, yes, social media is more invasive and is more pervasive perhaps than magazines or tv, but it's still all coming from the same core which is society. And ultimately that is a different fix than 30 second warnings in apps. And I've talked about this a lot when I've been on Twit because I have two kids who have been through the thick of social media. My son is 17, my daughter is 14. I didn't let my daughter have social media apps until she was 14 and mainly she uses them for communication. Not really scrolling. But one of the real problem, the solution is parental education. Like parents need to know what these platforms are, how to manage them, whether to just not let their kids use them, use parental controls.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:24:35]:
When my kids first started using a couple of these platforms there were very poor parental controls. They've got a lot better just in the last 12 months. Most platforms now offer features like I can, I'm, my account is linked to my daughter's TikTok account. So I can limit, like put a hard limit on how much time she uses it, I can reset her algorithm, I can do all sorts of things which you know, we didn't used to be able to do. So those types of features, you know, this is the parent, it's a societal issue and parents need to help their children navigate society. So parents need to be in charge of this type of thing. It's not really something for the government to mandate I think, I think it's difficult to compare this to smoking or drinking which you know, does obviously has a very, has a very directly relatable physical harm.

Mikah Sargent [00:25:31]:
Social media research, right.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:25:33]:
Years and years of research. Yes.

Mikah Sargent [00:25:35]:
Lots of proof.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:25:35]:
And I know there is research that has been done into the damaging effects of the images and. And in the influence of social media. So I'm not saying that that's not a real thing. I think it is. But there are also parts of it that are good and beneficial. So if it's managed well, there's no part of smoking that's good or beneficial.

Mikah Sargent [00:25:52]:
Right.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:25:53]:
But social media, definitely. I mean, my kids use it in their school like their classes would. My daughter's in a fashion class. So they would create sort of Instagram images and reels for their fashion class. Like there is.

Mikah Sargent [00:26:07]:
You would be doing that. Yeah. In your job. Because it's part of. It is part of our culture at this point, and therefore it's part of most jobs that you're going to do in some way.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:26:19]:
Yeah.

Mikah Sargent [00:26:19]:
So you do need that literacy.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:26:21]:
You do, you do. It's a thorny issue. I don't think this is a bad thing that California is doing, but I'm not sure it's really the solution. And I think it's going to get. I don't think it's going to happen. I mean, you already mentioned lawsuits. I think that's going to come up pretty fast. But ultimately it really is down to parents, and that's, you know, but parental education is more important, I think at this stage.

Mikah Sargent [00:26:48]:
I agree the kids 100%. I agree with that aspect of this, that they are the people who need to be taught what's going on, how it's going on and what can be done. It's an interesting thing where I think you. Or one might typically, because of the way that we're taught, one might typically think of the legal system being federal first and then individual state, and then of course, like county and city and down on from there. But there's also kind of another aspect of the executive ideal, which is parents like they are the thing that comes after whatever's smaller than city. I feel like city's probably the smallest in the sense. Yeah. Village is smaller than village.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:27:46]:
It takes a village. It takes a village.

Mikah Sargent [00:27:49]:
And yeah, that is the next kind of step that needs to be part of that process because then the children will grow up and become a part of the village that becomes a part of the city, that becomes a part of the state that becomes up and up and up from there. So I think that that is sometimes an aspect that is missed because is there not a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of cynicism that is involved with the government issuing these regulations because it puts forth this idea that parents aren't going to do this to protect their kids. And you know what I mean? Like, and I feel that is cynical. I understand. At the same time, because we're looking at big tech and we're saying they've got so much control, they have so much power and parents just might not see it and they might miss it. But yes, I agree with the education aspect of it.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:28:49]:
Yeah. And I think that's true. I mean, as someone who grew up, whose children have grown up as social media has grown up, as I said, it's been difficult, really difficult to manage over the last few years. It's gotten easier, but because there's been pressure on these platforms to do more to help manage it. So, you know, this, this feels like maybe like a last step safety measure. Like if nothing has helped the kid up to this point, at least make it clear that there are some dangers here and be aware. But you know, you can't. Telling children about danger doesn't necessarily mean that they're not going to do something.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:29]:
Yeah, I remember.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:29:31]:
Enjoy doing things that they're told not to do.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:33]:
Yeah, me, don't stick a fork in a light, in a plug.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:29:38]:
Don't put a metal plate in the microwave.

Mikah Sargent [00:29:40]:
But what if I do? What if I do and see what happens? And I did. Jennifer Pattison Tuohy I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. It is always a pleasure to get to talk to you. Of course folks can head over to the Verge to check out your work but if they want to follow along with you, where should they go to do so?

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:30:04]:
Yep, the verge.com we have follow follow me pages now so you can just click and get all my and just see all my articles. You can also sign up to get an email of daily digest of everything that I've written and then I'm on the threads at Smart Home Mama and also on X at JP2E and Blue Sky. So find me online. I've had some lovely emails from a lot of Twitter listeners recently, so keep those coming as well.

Mikah Sargent [00:30:34]:
That's great. That's great. I'm glad to hear it. Yeah. If anyone, if you ever get any non lovely ones, send them my way because I'll cast a spell on them. No, I'm kidding. Thank you so much. We'll see you again soon.

Jennifer Pattison Tuohy [00:30:46]:
Bye bye bye.

Mikah Sargent [00:30:48]:
All right, let us take a quick break before we come back with our interview. Looking at, as I promised, the announcements that Apple made this week. But first let me tell you about Veeam bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. When your data goes dark, well, Veeam is there to turn the lights back on. Veeam keeps enterprise businesses running when digital disruptions like ransomware strike. How? Well, by giving businesses powerful data recovery options that ensure you have the right tool for any scenario. Broad, flexible workload coverage from clouds to containers and everything in between. Full visibility into the security readiness of every part of your data ecosystem and tested, documented and provable recovery plans that can be deployed with a click of a button.

Mikah Sargent [00:31:39]:
That is why Veeam is the number one global market leader in data resilience. You just call them the global leader in helping you stay calm under pressure. With Veeam, it's all good. Keep your business running at veeam.com. That's V-E-E-A-M.com and we thank Veeam for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All right, we are back from the break and we are joined this week by Six Colors East Coast Bureau chief Dan Moran. Welcome back to the show, Dan.

Dan Moren [00:32:13]:
It's good to be here.

Mikah Sargent [00:32:13]:
Mikah. That's me. That is you. Yes. Dear listeners, if you are listening to this week's episode, I do encourage you to find the video version of the show, if just for this section because we do have Dan Moran here joining us. As your digital Persona, which I have to say, I have seen you multiple times in person and you do look like you, which is great.

Dan Moren [00:32:42]:
Very reassuring. If I look like someone else, this would be a whole different problem.

Mikah Sargent [00:32:48]:
So let's go ahead and get into things because Apple did make some announcements this week. How was the in person precedent?

Dan Moren [00:32:58]:
Well, it was so spooky. Everyone would go around with their little bags and collect candy from all the various apples. No, there was no in person press event this week because the stuff that Apple announced was rather modest as far as updates go. And I can say this because I have all three of them here in front of me, but only as augmented reality objects in a virtual space. So of the things that we saw this week from Apple, most of them revolve around this M5 processor. So this is the latest generation of their Apple silicon chips and they've embedded this in various devices, including the MacBook Pro, which got a new version, a new version of the iPad Pro and an updated version of the Apple Vision Pro. Not what I'm using. I'm still on the original M2 powered version.

Dan Moren [00:33:51]:
So all of those things got the latest generation of Apple Silicon, which, you know, it's Apple Silicon. We kind of know what the progression is at this point, with every successive generation getting a little bit better. It depends on what Apple focuses in on any given year, whether it's CPU or GPU or what have you.

Mikah Sargent [00:34:13]:
Now, when it comes to these announcements, as you said, sort of modest in the grand scheme of things, what, what is, what is the, the draw right for, for these new iterations on the devices and kind of how much of a difference are we looking at for these? Is it and is it just a matter of kind of okay, well, we've got the latest tech, so we just need to pop it into, into what we've got here as opposed to, you know, with the iPhone event and announcement and launch, seeing quite a change in the design and feature set, et cetera, et cetera.

Dan Moren [00:34:55]:
No, I mean these are all incremental updates. And so if you're coming from a recent generation like the M4, the until now current generation, or even the M3, I don't think these are things that you're going to see a big improvement in, maybe not even from an M2 Generation 1. And you'll notice that if you go and look at Apple's press releases about this, a lot of times what they're highlighting is the difference from the M1 generation. So we're finally getting to the point where that the first year's worth of Apple Silicon is kind of become the benchmark and saying, well, you know, this might be a good time to upgrade. If you're somebody who's using one of those original Apple Silicon chips From back in 2020, they've gotten pretty substantial gains from them, you know, because we're talking four additional chip generations. But as far as the progress from last year's models go, it's not really very big. I mean, you can even look at these, these devices and they are virtually indistinguishable. You put one of these M5 MacBook Pros next to an M4 MacBook Pro, I do not think it was Spider man.

Dan Moren [00:35:54]:
Exactly. They're both pointing at each other. Yeah. So not a major upgrade year over year, but a cumulative update over all of the years that Apple has been producing these things. And it should be noted as well, in particular with the MacBook Pro, this is only the base model of the Mac Pro, which is to say the one that's just got that vanilla M5 processor in it. The higher level chips like the. We have not yet seen the M5 Pro or M5 Max chips. Those are expected to come sometime early next year.

Dan Moren [00:36:26]:
And those are the things that really distinguish the MacBook Pro line. I mean, other than, you know, that processor wise this would be equivalent to whatever would be an M5 MacBook Air, for example. It's pretty much just a base step up, not really the high horsepower machines that you expect from a MacBook Pro.

Mikah Sargent [00:36:44]:
Now is that typical for this version to come out now and then the other versions to come out later in the coming year?

Dan Moren [00:36:55]:
I think the way I've summed this up is to say there is no normal. Fair enough. Even though Apple's been doing this for five years, every year has had a slightly different release schedule. It's not unheard of for them to release the high level chips at a different time from the base level chips in past. Some of the high level chips had even come much earlier. In some of those, we've seen those MacBook Pros come in the fall and then a base model chip coming later in next, the following spring. So it's kind of been all over the place. I'm not shocked by this.

Dan Moren [00:37:23]:
I think the answer is just that this, this base level M5 chip was ready to go now and these are the products that were ready for updates. Whereas those Pro and Max chips might take a little, little longer to cook.

Mikah Sargent [00:37:35]:
Now of course, the, the big thing here, aiio is that we're looking at. Do you feel like Apple is setting things up for anything groundbreaking in the AI landscape or is this just a matter of saying, don't you worry these very performance chips are going to be able to, you know, do what you need them to do with the AI stuff you're doing as opposed to the AI stuff we're doing.

Dan Moren [00:38:14]:
Right? Yeah. I think a lot of this is, is marketing and let's call it AI signaling, which is, it's a way of telling, a way of telling Wall street and investors in the financial markets. No, no, no, don't worry. Our stuff does AI too. We're on top of it. We may not be Nvidia making the chips that everybody wants, but we're still making stuff that's really performative for, for AI. And so I think, you know, they're kind of speaking the language, the buzzwords of what the current environment is all about and that is about AI. And so there is some, you know, if you want to ask whether or not there's, there's sort of like something to back this up, something concrete, they have made a change in this generation of chips and they talked about this a little bit with the iPhones earlier this fall as well, which is they've added these neural accelerators on the GPU cores which are designed to specifically enhance and target the kind of operations you're doing to do AI.

Dan Moren [00:39:10]:
That said, I don't really know. We haven't seen a lot of the, the software implication of this. I don't know how many people are running complicated AI heavy lifting programs on their iPhones or even on their iPads. Perhaps more on the MacBook Pros. I think Apple would like to see more development from its third party partners in terms of using some of the Apple's own foundation models, which is something they've unlocked in the latest version of platforms. And that's something that certainly seems like it could benefit. I mean anecdotally like I've been using my, my iPhone 17 Pro which has the same chip architecture and it seems like hey, if you want to make a Genmoji or use Image playgrounds, it's a bit zippier than it used to be. So that says something but maybe not a whole lot for the average AI user.

Mikah Sargent [00:40:00]:
Now on the iPad side of things, this latest iPad Pro is here and in scrolling through app press release. I have to tell you, I don't know who this man is. I've never seen this man. He could be walking down the street, I wouldn't know who he was. But this is definitely giving the like putting forth this idea that we've got an aspirational bit of iPad.

Dan Moren [00:40:28]:
I like the story.

Mikah Sargent [00:40:30]:
I don't know who he is, but he seems pretty cool sitting in his.

Dan Moren [00:40:32]:
Fancy car, he's got his trench coat. This is like the equivalent of all those 1980s and 1990s ads about jet setting businessmen. I think it's got, it's got serious vibes of that. I don't know anybody who does that.

Mikah Sargent [00:40:46]:
Yeah.

Dan Moren [00:40:46]:
And I know a lot of people use their iPad.

Mikah Sargent [00:40:48]:
Yeah, but not quite that way when it comes to the latest iPad. Is it fair to say it's sort of like, it's sort of like having a, you know, that, that, that MacBook power but in iPad form factor given that the chip is the same in both.

Dan Moren [00:41:15]:
Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I mean, you know, with the addition of Apple's peripherals lines. Right. It's magic keyboard and stuff like that. And then certainly with the addition of the iPad OS 26 windowing improvements that add more multitasking, that's very Mac like. I think it's become a matter of preference now in terms of what you want to Use the way you want to use your devices. I think you can do most of the stuff, if not everything, on an iPad that you would probably do on a Mac, at least for the average user. The Pro version, I think the Pro version, the running story has always been the hardware outstrips the software.

Dan Moren [00:41:49]:
I think this year it seems like the software has finally started to catch up. So maybe we'll see this Pro doing better for Apple because of IPadOS 26, but, you know, again, year over year, versus the M4 iPad Pro, which is a bit more of a substantial redesign. It doesn't seem like this is necessarily pushing the needle a lot.

Mikah Sargent [00:42:09]:
Then lastly, the Apple Vision Pro.

Dan Moren [00:42:14]:
Never heard of it.

Mikah Sargent [00:42:15]:
Yeah, the means through which you are talking to us now, update there. This is. I guess I did not expect to see incremental changes to this device. So it kind of caught me off guard in that way, given the cost and the development work that's gone into it. I always foresaw it as being this thing that later on down the line you would get the next version that has all these. So tell us a little bit about what you know about this new Apple Vision Pro and kind of your take on this upgrade.

Dan Moren [00:42:59]:
Sort of. Yeah, well, I mean, along with the iPad Pro and the MacBook Pro, the, the overriding refrain of this set of releases is kind of, you know, second verse, same as the first. Like, none of them changed substantially. And that includes the Vision Pro. Like the MacBook Pro and the iPad Pro, it now has the M5 processor. And I'll note that's a pretty big jump. I mean, the, the original M5, the Vision Pro debuted with an M2 processor, so we're talking three additional processor generations. And you have to remember, when it comes to Apple, a lot of this stuff is done years in advance.

Dan Moren [00:43:31]:
The roadmap is so far planned out that even as they were working on that initial version that launched, the chances were this version was already in development and they were sort of specking out down the road. We're going to swap a better chip into this. Now, in terms of what that allows for, it's not a lot. I mean, the main things they talk about, they talk about it can render more pixels, which makes the more detailed vision like objects and more detailed graphics. And you can up the refresh rate to 120Hz, which should reduce some motion blur. Incremental improvements, you know, not things that are going to blow anybody away. Not things that people who are like, oh, I wasn't going to buy a Vision Pro now I'm going to buy it. But it also has the nice, nice addition of there seems to be some power efficiency savings.

Dan Moren [00:44:15]:
It seems like you can eat about an extra half an hour out of the same battery that was on the existing version. So that's a nice addition. And then the other big thing that they debuted here was an additional strap. This has been sort of one of the complaints with the Vision Pro from a comfort standpoint is while you've got that solo band, there's just a really nice 3D knit one. But some people find that doesn't quite provide enough support. They had this dual head strap thing which is not quite as nice looking, it's all Velcro, stabs and everything. But it did provide potentially more support. And then there were some third party options including from Belkin.

Dan Moren [00:44:50]:
So what they've done with this new dual knit strap, dual knit band, I'm trying to remember how they call it, is essentially take that 3D printed solo model but add a second strap that goes over the top of your head, both of which can be adjusted from this same little dial so it sort of tightens as you go. Whether this will solve problems. I mean one of the other things they've included in here is the back strap includes weights in it like little tungsten inserts. And the ideas, the idea being that it will distribute the weight and provide better balance and provide more of a counterweight to the front, which as most reviewers noted is very heavy. That doesn't of course reduce the net weight of the thing. It's still heavy and now it's arguably heavier. But the question is whether that weight is better distributed to make it more comfortable for long periods of time in using it. So I think, you know, people who have an existing Vision Pro can buy that as an add on, but it comes by default with the new M5 Vision Pro.

Dan Moren [00:45:46]:
So Apple seems pretty confident about it.

Mikah Sargent [00:45:50]:
Anything else from these announcements? And I guess my last question would be do you expect to see Apple announce anything else for the remainder of the year? Are we looking at next year for what's left?

Dan Moren [00:46:02]:
There are a couple minor things here and there, some accessory updates. I think the magic keyboard for the iPad air now comes in black. Great. The Vision Pro gets a couple of other promised third party accessories including the Logitech sort of digital pencil that they announced I think back, I don't remember when that was. Maybe back WWDC which lets you manipulate 3D objects. And then they also gave a date for the. They've talked about integration with PlayStation's VR controllers and have said that that will be coming those they'll be able to buy a bundle of the controllers from the Apple Store in November. So a couple minor things as far as future announcements go.

Dan Moren [00:46:42]:
So there's a handful of products that it seems like could be coming sooner rather than later, including updates to Airtags, a new Apple TV, possibly a HomePod mini refresh. You know, Apple, given that they just did a press release for these previous announcements, wouldn't surprise me if they rolled out another set of those next week. I don't expect any further events at this point. I don't think anything they've got left in there is big enough to warrant it. But kind of like we saw with these sort of minor bumps, being able to put out a press release and or two or three on a day and say, hey, we've got a handful of new products, especially in the lead up to the holiday season. I wouldn't bet against it at this point.

Mikah Sargent [00:47:19]:
All right, well, I guess we will wait and see.

Dan Moren [00:47:25]:
Time honored. The time honored words indeed.

Mikah Sargent [00:47:28]:
Dan Morin, thank you so much for being here today. Of course folks can head to sixcolors.com to check out your work if they'd like to follow. Follow along with what you have and buy your books. Where should they go to do so?

Dan Moren [00:47:39]:
You can find everything else that I do and links to all my writing and podcasts, including clockwise, which I do with Mikah Hero every Wednesday over@dmorin.com Awesome.

Mikah Sargent [00:47:48]:
Thank you Dan.

Dan Moren [00:47:49]:
Thanks Mikah.

Mikah Sargent [00:47:50]:
Goodbye, Goodbye. Goodbye. Ghostly Dan Alrighty folks, we're going to take a quick break before we come back with my story of the week. I want to tell you first about Vention bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. Well, we talk a lot about it on the show. You know AI is everywhere and when it's used right, it can deliver results. Chances are you're already thinking about how to bring it into your business. So the question is how to do it without wasting time, without wasting money, without, you know, wasting that momentum that you have.

Mikah Sargent [00:48:26]:
I got to speak to the folks at Vention about the solution that they provide. Here is the answer. Backed by two decades of software delivery experience, Vention's AI Workshops offer practical expert led sessions that give your team the insights and structure they need to make smart decisions. With it, you bring your product vision and current stack and then Vention brings deep expertise in AI engineering and your business domain. Together you will turn the high level ideas into a tailored roadmap you can trust. Whether You're a cto, a tech lead or product owner. You won't have to spend weeks figuring out tools or architectures or models because Vention helps assess your AI readiness, clarify your goals, and outline the steps to get you there without the headaches, without wondering, well, what's the next step? How am I going to go about achieving this? Is this actually achievable? If you need help on the engineering front, well, their teams are ready to jump in. As your development or consulting partner, it's the most reliable step to take after your poc.

Mikah Sargent [00:49:33]:
Let's say you've built a promising prototype on Lovable, for example. It runs well in tests, but what's next? How do you go from that to an actual product? Do you open a dozen AI specific roles just to keep moving, or do you bring in a partner who has done this across industries? Someone who can expand your idea into a full scale product without disrupting your systems or slowing your team? That's the big thing, right? There's one, one instance they talked about where you have an idea and you implement it and then suddenly it's costing so much money for each individual user who is using this AI system and you're going, how in the world do I make this more cost effective? Well, Vention came in and made it more cost effective, figured out how to save money while continuing to do the create the AI product that they were looking for. Even with modern platforms, prototyping can be draining. Once you get something working, chances are you'll want to shift gears from problem solving mode to a bigger picture view. And that's exactly why product leaders turn to Vention, not just for the AI workshops, but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing you're not building blind. So if you value speed, clarity and impact and want to avoid second guessing your next AI, moving well. Learn more at ventionteams.com or book your workshop at ventionteams.com/twit. You'll leave with a plan that works, a partner you can count on, and a lot fewer gray hairs.

Mikah Sargent [00:51:04]:
That's ventionteams.com/twit. Thank you, Vention, for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All right, back from the break and it is time to talk about a new change. Over on Instagram. Instagram is implementing its most significant teen accounts update yet automatically applying content restrictions. Modeled after PG13 movie ratings to all users under 18, the platform will filter content to match what teenagers would encounter in a PG13 film, while introducing a new limited content setting. For parents seeking even stricter control. Now, the sweeping change, which begins rolling out in the us, UK and Australia this week and Canada, also represents Meta's latest attempt to address parental concerns about age appropriate content on social media. And we'll talk about an interesting wrinkle involved in this in just a little bit, but I want to start by talking about this.

Mikah Sargent [00:52:08]:
So Instagram was kind of looking at, you know, any company, right, is going to sort of of talk to its user base and figure out what's working and what's not. And we were talking earlier to Jennifer Pattison Tuohy of the Verge about her take on how social media companies should or should not be held responsible and where the education needs to take place. And I have to give props to Instagram for actually talking to parents and, and trying to figure things out from parents as opposed to just sort of rolling out these controls and seeing if it works, but saying, here are our current controls because Instagram teen accounts have existed for some time. But taking that a step further and saying, okay, we rolled this out, here's what we had, but you say you want more and need more control and maybe some clarity on what your child is going to see. In fact, Meta told me that nearly, nearly all of the accounts that are teen accounts that feature was enabled have remained within these built in restrictions. So once they're turned on, on these accounts it's actually staying, which I think is a testament to the, the level of filtering and the level of control that's taking place here. Now with this, the idea is that it's about understanding what your child's experience is going to be. And it's that education that we were talking about earlier, right? So for decades now we've known what a PG13 experience is going to be.

Mikah Sargent [00:54:00]:
And that means that the company took the opportunity to kind of look at the guidelines and then look at the guidelines for PG13 movies and then update them accordingly. Now that said, there are some cases where Instagram goes further than you would see in a PG13 movie. And there are some instances where up to this point, the company did make some changes to bring things more in line. So beyond existing policies that hide sexually suggestive content, graphic images and adult content like tobacco or alcohol sales, the updated policies also hide posts with strong language. A big one is this next one certain risky stunts and content showing specifically cannabis paraphernalia, the platform reports Again, again, 95% of US parents surveyed think these updated settings will be helpful, and 90% saying they'll make it easier to understand the kind of content their teen is likely to see. So it's all about that, that aspect of it, right? Kind of. What does this mean? Well, I can look to a PG13 film and a specific title and go, okay, it's like that. So how is the company going about making this change? Well, they extend across multiple Instagram features.

Mikah Sargent [00:55:23]:
So there's account restrictions. Teens can no longer follow accounts that regularly share age inappropriate content or whose names or bios would suggest inappropriate material. So Instagram is looking at those places and saying here's where we're going to, you know, cut back on what's there Existing follows to such accounts will have their content hidden. These accounts cannot follow teens send DMs or comment on teens posts. I was concerned, concerned that this would mean.

Mikah Sargent [00:55:57]:
Creators might not realize that their accounts are not following these guidelines. Right? That it would mean that creators would look and say, wow, suddenly my views have dropped, my interactions have dropped. Meta says that it will be very clear for a creator to go into their account and look and find out. Oh yes, indeed. I am able to see why my account has been, you know, is not suitable for teens and specifically what it is. So for example, an only fans link in your URL would would be one example of how that could be impacted. There are also limitations to certain so the platforms will block teens ability to see content results for mature search terms like alcohol or gore so that those terms will remain blocked even when they're misspelled. So different versions of that to try and hide it.

Mikah Sargent [00:56:59]:
Because remember that right now there are a lot of different ways that creators will hide what they are showing to people. For example, I've seen a lot of times when they're talking about THC or cannabis, they'll block out a few letters or they will like bleep out the actual be like th bleep so that the algorithm doesn't automatically pick up on this. Instagram is working to be better about limiting these terms. And then also teens aren't going to see guideline violating content and recommendations in the feed or in stories, even from accounts they follow. So that's a big, big thing that's changed as well. It means I was kind of curious about this too. What's this going to look like for a teen who logs into the account after this has been rolled out? It means that if you are currently following an account that does not fit within these guidelines, if it's a guideline violating account, that teen will no longer be able to visit that account page will no longer be able to DM that person, but also the DMs that they see will stop at the current message and no more conversation can take place until that becomes a guideline following account again. And if it doesn't, then that's okay too, but it just means that the teen's not able to do that and a sort of not a placeholder but a replacement.

Mikah Sargent [00:58:35]:
It sort of reminds me of when your web policy blocks certain sites. You know, you go to that site and then a little page pops up and says sorry, you can't visit this site. The same thing kind of here where it will show something in place of that account and you'll see that instead there are some even stricter controls that parents will be able to use. And I will talk about those in a moment after we take a quick break to tell you about Outsystems. Bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly, our friends at Outsystems, the leading AI powered application and agent development platform for more than 20 years. The mission of Outsystems is to give every company the power to innovate through software. IT teams typically have two choices. You can buy off the shelf SaaS products for speed but lose flexibility and differentiation.

Mikah Sargent [00:59:31]:
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Mikah Sargent [01:00:34]:
We're talking about Meta over on Instagram, rolling out some new controls for teen accounts on the platform. We talked a little bit about the PG13 movie ratings being used as a kind of template for what an experience will be like for teens, giving parents a better understanding of what that is. But there's also a new option that is called limited content. This is even stricter and will filter even More content. It means that along with kind of, as I mentioned, more content filtering across the service, you also will have a restriction in the ability to see, leave or receive comments. This is going to come out next year, or rather there'll be another part that comes out next year. But essentially what this does is it says you aren't able to read comments, you're not able to comment on another post, and people are not able to comment on your posts. Now, the part that's coming next year is that it's also going to restrict AI conversations.

Mikah Sargent [01:01:45]:
Now, to be clear, it's not completely restricting those conversations as if the AI conversations can't take place, but instead is limiting those conversations to a sort of specifically a specific version of the AI. So you're not having kind of personal conversations, but instead can use it for things like school, work or what have you, Meta, AI, whatever you might be using that for. Now, Meta's research says 96% of US parents appreciated having this option available, regardless of whether they choose to activate it. Just in case, you know, you need to switch to that limited content for a period of time, you see that your child is receiving, you know, abusive comments or something like that that are slipping past any filters or protections this can come through and be helpful there or, you know, in any case where limiting or limiting the child's ability to comment or receive comments is great. Now, now I was curious about the parent aspect of this, how, you know, what is defined as a parent in the case of these new guidelines and how someone is able to kind of give feedback. And according to Meta, it is there are multiple ways that they are know, communicating with parents and receiving feedback. But one of those ways is occasionally scrolling through your Instagram feed and seeing a poll pop up, you know, and being able to answer there in the poll. So that's kind of where those percentages come into play.

Mikah Sargent [01:03:22]:
One thing that I did want to mention, and thank you, John Ashley, for pointing this out. The Motion Picture association of America, actually, it's just the mpa. Not just it's not the mpaa, but the MPA had this to say about this new change. Basically, the chairman, Charles Rivkin, said that the organization was not contacted beforehand and of course welcomes efforts to protect children. But basically he said, look, there's no connection between our rating system and Instagram's rating system system, meaning that it's not as if the MPA has blessed these ratings. And I think this requires a little bit of context that I always love to talk about, which is Something very fascinating about the state of media and how it was built over time. When the moving pictures came along, when the movies came along, the talkies and the movies. At the time, there was no regulation on this content.

Mikah Sargent [01:04:33]:
But we saw, we being the people making movies, saw the way that the government came in and regulated utilities and radio. And they, the people at the time said, we do not want the government to regulate what we do. And how can we keep the government from regulating what we do? Well, well, we regulate ourselves. So the mpa, well, in this case it was the mpaa, came forth and said, we are implementing a rating system and we are making sure that every single movie follows this rating system and that it is, you know, a hardline, fast rule. So much so that in, in some cases they were even stronger in the regulatory blowback or regulatory than you would have seen from the government. Because the idea is, look, we're taking care of ourselves. We don't need your help. And that has remained to this day.

Mikah Sargent [01:05:38]:
That's why the rating system is so strong. That's why, you know, Meta is able to point at it as a means because so many of us are familiar with how that rating system works. It is a strong and steadfast set of guidelines that have changed very little over time and are, you know, sort of a touchstone. So the MPA says, great, you're protecting kids, but we didn't know that you were planning on comparing your stuff to our rating system. And we just need to make that clear to everybody. In any case, the updated content settings are rolling out again in the us, the uk, Australia and Canada. The full implementation will be by the year's end and will also go to protect in other places as well, you know, global expansion. Lastly, Instagram is using age prediction technology to place teens into these content protections, even if they claim to be adults.

Mikah Sargent [01:06:37]:
So even if the account is not automatic or is not turned to a teen account or created as a teen account with the parents involvement, Instagram is attempting to look at how over time, if this is indeed a teen, in which case implementing this teen filtering. So that is something that we will continue to watch and make sure that they are protected under these changes. So that's kind of a look at, at where Instagram stands with the teen accounts and its latest changes to this new filter and, you know, set of guidelines. Folks, that's going to bring us to the end of this episode of Tech News Weekly. Thank you as always for tuning in. Always appreciate you joining us here. If you head to Twitter, TV tnw. That's where you can go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats.

Mikah Sargent [01:07:43]:
Publish a show every Thursday. If you'd like to get ad free episodes of all of our shows, can I invite you to join our Club. twit.tv/clubtwit is where you go to sign up when you join the club. As I mentioned, you'll get ad free versions of all of our shows. You'll also gain access to our special feeds. These include our coverage of coverage and commentary of different tech events that take place, news events, as well as access to our bits and clips, kind of behind the scenes, before the show, after the show stuff, and access to our special club shows like Mikah's Crafting Corner, Stacey's Book Club. We've got camera time, we've got occasionally coffee time, the AI User group. So much great stuff there as well. And when you join the club, you're going to get access to that huge back catalog of stuff you can tune into and check out.

Mikah Sargent [01:08:37]:
So that's one reason to do so. Lastly, you'll get to join the disc. Oh yes. And also coming up next Friday, if you can believe it, Friday the 24th from 2pm to 5pm Pacific, I will be running a D and D adventure with a cast of characters, Twit hosts and contributors who will be joining us then. So if that sounds good to you, the only way you're going to get to see that is if you join the Club twit.tv/clubtwit. I would love, love to have you there. You'll gain access to the Discord server where you can also chat with us and your fellow Club Twit members. twit.tv/clubtwit. I know I've said it a hundred times, but there it is again.

Mikah Sargent [01:09:31]:
And that brings us to the end of this episode of Tech News Weekly. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you want to follow me online, I'm @mikhasargent on pretty much every social media network. You can also do chihuahua.coffee. C H I H U A H U A.coffee where I've got links to the places I'm most active online. Goodbye until next time and have a happy spooky week.