Tech News Weekly 392 Transcript

Please be advised that this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word-for-word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Coming up on Tech News Weekly. Jennifer Patterson-Tui of the Verge is here. We talk about how a bunch of cameras are exposed to the internet and how WISE is updating its security practices. Afterward we talk about addictive tech use and its impact on mental health, and round things out with a story about that Trump mobile phone. All of that coming up on Tech News Weekly.

00:27 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
Podcasts you love From people you trust. This is Twit.

00:35 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
This is Tech News Weekly, episode 392, with Jennifer Patterson Toohey and me, Micah Sargent, Recorded Thursday June 19th 2025. 40,000 reasons to check your camera security. Hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where every week we talk to and about the people making and breaking that tech news. I am one of your hosts. This week, my name is Micah Sargent and today joining us for this episode of Tech News Weekly is Jennifer Patterson-Tui of the Verge. Welcome back, Jen.

01:11 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Hello, hello, happy to be back. It feels like it's been a while. Well, it's because you were on vacation.

01:16 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Exactly yes, and that was what happened the last time. It was nice, it was good to take some time and get some R&R, but I am happy to be back and, yeah, it does feel like it's been forever. So thank you for being here in my place at the time and now being here again. It's a story of the week packed show, and I am really looking forward to talking to you about especially our first two topics, because they fall into the the interests and, in some cases, passions that we both enjoy.

01:59
Sweeping investigation by cybersecurity firm BitSight, reported by 404 Media, reveals that more than 40,000 internet-connected cameras, from office security systems to baby monitors and even hospital patient rooms, are accessible to anyone with a browser and the right IP address. Many don't require hacking, they're simply left unsecured, often using default settings or login credentials, and the result? It's a staggering breach of privacy across homes and businesses and public spaces, with footage surfacing on the dark web and being used in real world espionage and cyber attacks. So in looking at this report, this was kind of wild to see the number. Bitsight identified 40,000, plus live camera feeds open to the public. I mentioned hospitals, offices, data centers, jewelry stores, clinics, bird feeders. That one maybe makes a lot of sense clinics, bird feeders that one maybe makes a lot of sense, but it was just as often found in a large organization as it was found in a home, with, of course, the most egregious examples being the cameras they found in hospitals and clinics that were actually monitoring patients in hospitals and clinics that were actually monitoring patients. In this research, the report identified the most exposed devices in the US, followed by Japan, and there were camera feeds found across all 50 US states. Even some protected cameras were also able to be accessed, and that meant that, even though they had these protections in place that were supposed to keep the camera from being able to be accessed, it didn't matter, because the researchers had ways of getting to those cameras.

04:03
And I kind of want to talk about that, because the research conducted was done so in a way to kind of mimic the ability of anyone with even the slightest bit of tech know-how. It wasn't any special hacking or trying to, you know, insert some package over packet I mean over the Internet and and hack into the system, or getting someone to plug in a flash drive. No, in many cases it just took an IP address, and in some cases it doesn't even take that, because there are websites and services out there that let you search for internet accessible devices that people have in their homes or elsewhere. And so, with all of that, they kind of looked into how to find things, looking at cameras that operated over HTTP, and in many cases those would have a built in web interface, and in many cases those would have a built-in web interface. They could then do something as simple as typing after the URL slash out period JPEG, because a lot of these cameras have similar firmware and so they work a lot alike and they output these little screenshots of what they're seeing, and if you get enough of those, you can really start to get a picture of what is going on.

05:30
And then there were also the real-time streaming protocol cameras that are more likely used in kind of professional systems and those also have very common paths, like livesdp and slash mpeg4. And then the researchers were able to take that data and turn it into a series of images or video to be able to get that. So, yeah, we'll talk a little bit more about what the researchers found in terms of how people were using these and everything else, but I wanted to get your early impression of this, jen, because I know, as someone who has been interested in the smart home, I regularly hear from people who say why would you put any of that stuff in your house? It's going to result in you getting hacked or someone's going to be watching you. Um, what is your kind of response to that in general, and then your reaction to uh hearing about all these cameras?

06:36 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
so my response to the first question is choose wisely. Um, there are cameras that you can buy that are far more secure, and there are cheap cameras that you buy off the web for 30 bucks that are going to end up on someone's collection of streaming video cameras that people sit and watch and eat popcorn and enjoy seeing into people's homes.

07:06
And this is not new, so it is scary and awful to read this report, but if you even click into the report, it says in 2023, we found the same thing and in 2022, I mean, this has been going on for years. What is scary is that it is still going on, like we should have learned, people should have learned, companies should have learned. This shouldn't still be happening, but it is common and it has been happening for a long time.

07:31
Often, when I talk to security researchers and the question I always ask is you know, what is the biggest threat or concern users should have about using smart devices in their homes? Because it's a question I get asked a lot, not just around cameras, but around hacking in general, because there's the whole concern around DDoS attacks or people getting into your networks and controlling your smart appliances, and so there's a lot of concerns around connecting devices in your home to the internet. And, yes, this is something that has been happening for a long time and what they often. The answer that they always give me is oh well, security cameras are your biggest concern, because there are literally websites you can go onto and just join and see live feeds from people's nurseries and their gardens and wherever else they've put security cameras. I mentioned gardens because one of my top tips with security cameras is keep them outside.

08:32
But, yeah, you know, baby cams. Obviously there's a lot of use cases pet cams when you're away from home. There are reasons that people want these devices. But in terms of your second question there, what can be done about it? You need to buy cameras with good security track records. If you notice, the two protocols that they mention in this report are HTTP, which is missing a very crucial letter from it. Do you know which one that?

09:06 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
is Where's the S? Where's the S?

09:09 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
For goodness sake, why is it not encrypted? Thank, you.

09:14 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
And then RTSP. Now RTSP is not as bad, but it's the way you use it. It's actually quite a common tool in smart home cameras to stream to local storage. But if you're streaming to local storage you're not going on the internet. You're still somewhat vulnerable because if someone hacks into your network, it's more of an open channel, but hopefully you have much stronger protections on your network. And this is all about stronger protections and this is all about the devices that you choose to put into your home.

09:47
Most of the reputable security cameras you buy from reputable firms reputable companies that cost more than $30. Most of the time you can get them on deals, but you know that come with subscriptions as well. That's sometimes considered a downside. They put money, time, effort into securing and either end-to-end encryption or encryption in transit and at rest, which is what most cloud security services use. Encryption in transit and at rest, which means that it can't be hacked into as it's moving or when it's not being used. It is accessible to the company at some point so that they can process it for things like facial recognition or package alerts or those kinds of features that some people value security cameras for. But yeah, that's you know. Just don't buy cheap cameras off the internet and I don't know what kind of. I think the issue with some of these large organizations that hospitals and the others that are sort of mentioned in this report are using probably old technology.

10:56 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
Yes.

10:56 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Absolutely. They haven't updated their cameras in years because it would cost a fortune to, you know, reinvest in that technology. And if it's working for them now, why would they change it? And they probably aren't alerted to these types of reports very often. So, yeah, I'm sure my local hospital wouldn't really have spent much time on these sites and figured out what's going on. So, yeah, it's scary and it's bad, but it's not new and it's been going on for a long time, and that's the scariest thing is why this is still happening.

11:28 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Absolutely. I mean one of you, you very much hit on it. Legacy and abandoned cameras are still streaming online and that was a lot of what not a lot, but that was some of what BitSight saw, particularly the legacy side, and here is what I really liked, liked something that they talked about that I think people aren't thinking of, first and foremost, because when you hear about your camera being accessed or an a camera being accessed, your immediate thought is privacy, privacy, privacy. Right, Someone's watching me through my camera. That's the bad thing and that's the extent of it and, honestly, that is enough to sort of pay attention to this report. But let's talk about businesses who, as you said, maybe you're going. Okay, they can see people walking through my store. I'm not going to update these cameras. They talk about what else is at risk here.

12:22
With office cameras you can suddenly expose confidential materials, employee activity, so you're suddenly gaining access to papers that are talking about the company's profit or whatever it happens to be. Retail cameras that are accessed will help burglars time thefts or perhaps scope merchandise. In fact, there was one instance where they were able to look through and see a Porsche showroom that had some very fancy car in it. Factory feeds could reveal proprietary processes to competitors, and all of those are also reasons why you would want to have your camera situation figured out. And, yes, so much of the time, what they found was just that people were not changing the default passwords or if they didn't need remote access, but they left it on. So if you don't need remote access, as you were just talking about, make it a local area network situation. If you're going to be doing that, RTMP unless you do need to access it from external and maybe consult a professional Use firewalls, VPNs, of course, for corporate systems. You can also go about checking your own camera. Just hop on a different network and try to access it or use one of these sites.

13:43
I'm not going to mention any specific site or service.

13:45
It's very easy to find that does publish this information and, you know, shows these cameras that are kind of online.

13:52
It's honestly not too difficult to get this sorted if you are taking a little bit of time and a little bit of attention to figure it out and you do those things that Jen talked about and that this report talks about of. If you're going to do this, invest a little bit in it so that you aren't getting the cheapo devices that aren't going to be as concerned about security and the blowback they're in, and then go from there and when we come back from the break we're going to talk about a company that is a bigger company in the sense that when blowback was initiated the company kind of had to repair from that. So let's take a quick break and we'll talk about. Oh, I should mention, before we do take that break, we'll of course course link the report in the show notes. You should go check out the report. It's got loads of great information in there and you can pass it along to any family members who don't like to change default passwords.

14:55 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
Change your passwords.

14:56 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
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18:07 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, so my story of the week concerns a similar space, which is security cameras, but it's at a different level. Thankfully, these security cameras are a little bit more secure than the ones we were just discussing, but that doesn't mean they're completely fail safe. And what has happened here is the security company, smart home company Wyze, which has been around for several years and is well known for producing high quality, low cost smart home devices, primarily security cameras, but they also have a number of different devices in the smart home, including like door locks and lights and scales everything.

18:57
They do a lot and they've always been a kind of interesting, quite innovative company and very popular because their cameras are, or originally were, about $30. So hence my comment when we were talking about cheap security cameras earlier. These guys don't fall into the Chinese cheap categories that you find online, but they have experienced several security issues in the last few years that caused a lot of backlash and concern from users, and just this week they came out the problems they experienced earlier in 2023, 2024, but this is sort of like a fail safe, proving to customers that if anything like that ever happened again, you still would be secure. Now, what happened in those incidents is that other people were able to see your live stream footage from your cameras, which is the number one thing people are concerned about about having devices like this in their homes. So that was a big issue.

20:14
What happened was some type of third party cloud caching company that they used had a failure, and then there was another failure and it was kind of a domino effect and users, when they logged into their accounts, saw other people's streams because there was some kind of cross on the back end and obviously, no matter what happened, this is the fear, this is what you don't want, and so what this new verified view feature is is really kind of interesting. It takes your camera and it stamps your user ID metadata onto the camera so that now, any time any footage is generated by that camera a live stream, a video or a photo it stamps your metadata your user ID metadata onto that and then, when you go to use it, to view it with your app or through any other, maybe through a third party, like if you're watching on a smart display it has to verify hence Verify View that you are that user using the embedded metadata.

21:26
And this is actually quite clever. And it's essentially does it sound familiar? Because do you want to know what I understand it's based on from some security people that I spoke to?

21:36 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
What's it based on? It's based on.

21:37 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
DRM, oh no way.

21:41
So it's like you have to verify that it's you and it's basically a combination of a software and hardware and it's really kind of an interesting technology that you could see being applied in many ways in our new world where we're concerned about the veracity of video and photos, about the veracity of video and photos, being able to take this digital management tool elsewhere, outside the smart home, would be really interesting.

22:09
But what Wyze has done here is basically this is just for their cameras and the idea being, whatever you, even if someone was able to hack or not hack or get access somehow to the stream because of a failure, so, like the failure that they had with their cloud caching, they wouldn't be able to view your video because when they tried to access it, they wouldn't have your metadata.

22:33
Now, of course, if they got access to your account, then they would be able to, so it doesn't prevent that. So WISE, at the same time, over the last few years since this happened, has talked about how they have spent a lot of time and money, and this is the key to security is it does require time and it does require money, and companies that don't put in the time and the money are the ones that you should not be buying from. But they've put all this time and money into a slew of other features that most of which most companies are already implementing, that are in this space, and I think Wise had a lot of these tools in place, but they've kind of beefed them up so they now require two-factor authentication. A lot of companies make it an option. Two-factor authentication means that if someone tries to get into your account, you get alerted, and it is a pain I know. I kind of avoid turning it on sometimes.

23:28
Yeah, it's like, oh boy, another step, but this way you know, if you constantly get notifications that someone's trying to log in, would you like to reset your Instagram password? No, I don't want to. I didn't ask to, but I have 2FA turned on, so every time someone tries to get into my accounts I find out. So you know cameras should have you need to have 2FA turned on.

23:49
They Wyze has also added a number of sort of backend features that you they're not front facing to the consumer but that will send alerts to the consumer if there is something trying to or someone trying to access their account, and invested in a number of AWS tools that are kind of constantly scanning to see if there's any kind of network attack. So basically, they're trying really hard to convince customers that their data is safe with them Now their data. Compared to the companies we were just talking about, I would definitely say I would feel much more comfortable using a Wyze cam than using any of the cameras that the company what was the research firm called? I'm trying to remember BitSight, oh.

24:37 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
BitSight, yeah that we just talked about.

24:38 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
But there are still concerns, and the reasons there are still concerns is because Wyze is a cloud-based service and this is something, when you're talking about security cameras that you always have to kind of weigh. And Wyze is not alone in this. Most popular security camera brands out there today Ring, arlo, wyze they all use cloud storage. There are some options for local storage with all of those cameras and others, but generally most consumers go with the easy route, which is the cloud. That is the easy route. There are a lot of benefits to the cloud. You don't have to run a local server. You don't have to worry about dealing with security. In theory it's all happening by the company that you're paying to do this for you and that's generally. You're paying a subscription service. They also the big benefit is the new advances we've seen with artificial intelligence in security cameras, so they are able to process more intelligently footage and send you much more detailed notifications, which is, you know, kind of interesting. Like now, from my Wyze cam I'll get an alert saying there's a chicken in your backyard as opposed to motion. So those kinds of features are a benefit of a cloud service.

26:03
But I asked Dave Crosby, who is one of the co-founders of Wwise and who I spoke to for this article. I said well, cloud services is great and a lot of people love these features, but there are a lot of people that would just rather have their footage end-to-end encrypted, which is what we talked about earlier. That is where the only person that can feasibly in any way access your footage is you using your device. It does create a little bit more friction in accessing your footage. It does, as he says, compromises the user experience, and their argument is that this verified view offers very similar protections to end-to-end encryption, but without compromising that experience. But really it's down to your comfort level and also your technical knowledge of level, because E2E does create a bit more friction, doesn't have as many features, but is arguably and well, even he said the holy grail for security cameras in terms of feeling secure with that in your house, and Apple HomeKit uses E2EE for its footage. But what the key difference that you need with E2EE is? You need a local hub.

27:17 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yes, and.

27:18 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Apple Home uses local home hubs like a HomePod or Apple TV. And then there are some other companies like Eufy, who's also gotten into a fair amount of hot water with cloud issues in the past. They have a local device, a home-based system that you can use, and there are. I mean, I think Reolink and Lorex. A couple other companies will have like an NVR system that you can use, and there are. I mean, I think Reolink and Lorex, a couple other companies will have like an NVR system that you can set up. Those use RTSP, which is what we discussed before, and if you're using them on a local network. This is all so complicated and confusing and I can see why so many people get burned by security cameras. But honestly, my advice from the start is the same. Now it's like if you want these cameras in your home, pay the extra money to buy it from a reputable company, make sure that you change your passwords, you set up 2FA, you do all of that and most just point them outside.

28:20 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yes, that's all of that and most just point them outside. Yes, that's the main thing, because then, at the end of the day, they're seeing your chickens but not much else, right? Whenever it comes to in a home setting, of course, that's a different situation at a store or clinic or something like that, because even somebody walking outside, if they've got their discharge papers and the camera's able to zoom in on the patient id number or whatever like that's where y'all have got to get your stuff together. In those settings there should not have been a single clinic or medical anything on this. That list from earlier, uh, I was going to mention too. Funny enough, back in the olden days you could actually uh, go into your wise settings and turn on RTMP and that's something and he's bringing that back.

29:06 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
They said they're going to bring that back.

29:08 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Really.

29:09 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yes, that was a little nugget. You heard it here. Second, I missed that part because that's really cool.

29:13 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
I didn't realize that that was going to be.

29:15 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, he said that. So one of the other things we talked about was was how much more they could move locally, because a lot of this AI stuff can be done locally. You don't necessarily need the cloud for the AI processing, as we're doing more and more on the edge. Wyze has a few cameras that can process certain things on the edge. They're the more expensive cameras.

29:36
He was talking about how the way they're working with the cloud is bringing. They'll develop an AI identification model, use it in the cloud, refine it until they can move it to the edge and then use that on the edge. This is a flywheel, so it has to start in the cloud and come to the edge, which is why he was saying we're always going to have a cloud component, although you can use local storage for a Wisecam and not use that cloud at all. But it is not as good of an experience as subscribing, mainly because they limit. There's like a five-second or maybe a five-minute cool down between clips, so if someone walks by five minutes in between clips, you're not going to see them, so it's kind of easy.

30:20 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yes, and that's important I've seen.

30:22 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
But just on the RTSP. He said he knows our users want this and they are looking to bring it back. So there you go. You heard it here first.

30:30 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
That is exciting. Also, I'm just now realizing that I said MP, I think because the mounted police is what I was thinking of oh yay, what are they called? What are they called the? Something, something, mp, the.

30:45 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Mounties, the Mounties, yes.

30:47 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yeah.

30:48 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
The Rocky Mountain. There was a TV show in like the 90s.

30:52 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
For some reason, that's what came to my mind, Just came to mind. But yes, RTSP, I was going to say before we do have to take another break. Rtsp, I was going to say before we do have to take another break. There was didn't know, was that I had another camera in a different place that was not battery powered, but I watched they walk up and trigger the camera and then they waited and waited and waited and moved just within that frame of time before it picks up again because it's a battery camper. So, yeah, that was pretty clever and again, most people are going to set things at the default. So if you're trying to steal a package or something like that, that's how they did it. But yeah, that's really smart. I was honestly, it was clever. I thought you know what? Maybe you deserve this package because you take it.

32:00 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Can I interview on my tech show?

32:01 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Exactly. I wish I could have found them. I said, listen, you can have what's in there. I just want to talk. All right, we got to take a break. We'll come back with even more. Up next, we're going to talk about a study on mental health and youth internet or youth technology use and some surprising results. All right, let me tell you, though, about Melissa, who's bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. Melissa is celebrating 40 years, congratulations.

32:33
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34:45
A major new study published in JAMA challenges one of the most entrenched assumptions about youth mental health that more screen time leads to worse outcomes. Screen time leads to worse outcomes. Tracking over 4,000 kids from age 10 to age 14, researchers instead found no direct link between how many hours children spent on devices and suicidal behavior. Instead, the study identified a different culprit addictive patterns of use a different culprit addictive patterns of use such as compulsively checking phones or feeling distress without access. In short, it's not just how long kids are online, it's how unable they are to log off. In this study, 4,285 children were tracked again from age 10 to 14. They were regularly screened for signs of compulsive use, the inability to stop, or emotional distress when they disconnected, and by age 14,. So again for those four years that they were tracked, 17.9% of those more than 4K children reported suicidal thoughts. 5.1% showed suicidal behaviors like planning or attempts, and in this study there was no direct correlation between the time spent on the screens and suicidality, but instead there seemed to be a link between, when the children reported addictive behavior and reported feeling an addiction to the device, that suicidality rates increased.

36:27
It seems to be that this is the first study to look at addictive use as the root cause instead of just time spent. So when it came to screen time, they looked at different patterns of screen time and even if a child spent more than typical hours on a device or fewer than typical hours on a device, if that child also reported that they were feeling the desire to get to their device or distress when they didn't have it. That was the actual common factor as opposed to just using it later if they needed to. So whenever they looked at what actually counts as addictive use feeling unable to stop using the device, needing to use it more and more, anxiety or distress when access is denied and this was present across social media, gaming and phone use Some children exhibited that addictive behavior, even if their screen time was, in comparison, relatively low. This doesn't surprise me that addictive use was more common among kids whose brains were still developing impulse control. I mean, that is a huge factor in this age range, and nearly half of the participants had high addictive phone use by age 11. So the risk of suicidal behavior this is, according to Dr Zhao, the risk of suicidal behavior clearly increased to a doubling of the levels, and so they kind of had to recheck regularly in on these children. So again, it was between the ages of 10 and 14, and by 11, that addictive behavior had already started.

38:13
There, of course, is a lot to look at here in the long term, but it is important to sort of frame this in the discussion that we've seen up to this point, which has so much focused, I think, on just, kids are using their devices and they're using them all the time, and they're using them at school.

38:34
They're using them on the toilet and they're using them there, and we're using them there, blah, blah, blah, blah there, and reason there, blah, blah, blah, and how it's so much that there may be more to it than simply that. Um, and finding sort of underlying uh patterns and causes is an important aspect of it. Um, I am not the parent of children, uh, and so I have not had the joy one must have in trying to figure out when and how and why and all of the I. I just would love to hear, uh, if, if it's something that you want to talk about, jen um, how did you approach tech use and when did it come along for you and the conversation around screen time and everything else, and, of course, your thoughts on this study?

39:29 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, well, I think the study is very interesting because this is sort of something and this is an internal family issue that we've had to trying to understand the difference between screen time and benefits of screen time. And this has always been sort of my argument is, you know, it's not about, I've always felt it's not about how long they're on it, it's about what they're doing on it. That because today, in today's society, especially with COVID-19, which my kids were smack in the middle of with high school and middle school, it was impossible to do less than six hours of screen time a day because they're on their computers learning for school. I mean, that's not the type of screen time you feel like you need to limit. But we've been told that too much screen time is damaging our children. So yeah, there's been so much parental guilt over the last five to 10 years around screen time is damaging our children.

40:21
So yeah, there's been so much parental guilt over the last five to 10 years around screen time, and the onus has been so much on the parent to make sure that your child spends all its time outside and not any time on the screen, and whereas now I think what this helps do is push the onus back onto companies and device makers and those people creating the content to be much more mindful about the type of content created for children under certain ages and to have some of these limits that and we're starting to see this like limits that kind of will help you make sure you know there's not a lot out there that helps you understand what type of age range an app or a service is for. When we grew up with TV and movies, our parents were given the rating system to help them make it clear what was suitable and what wasn't.

41:22
And anything that was unsuitable on TV wasn't shown until after 8pm. There were much clearer guidelines for parents to understand what kind of content their children should be exposed to With apps. There are age ratings for apps, but they're very loose and they don't really provide a lot of detail and they're quite limited for younger ones. For example, like you can't download YouTube unless you have unrestricted app downloads 17, it's a 17 or over, which obviously because YouTube has all sorts of crap on it. But once you download YouTube you can put on age restrictions. So it's like there's just needs to be more to help the parent at that's at the sort of interaction stage, and not you should just keep the screen away from your child. It is, it's, it's a struggle. Um, definitely, because there are the reasons that in this society today it is very hard to not give your child some form of communication device before the age of like 15 or 16. When I, there was a sort of there's a group organization movement called Wait Until Eighth, which is the idea you know, don't?

42:38
you shouldn't have to give your, don't give your child a phone until eighth grade, which is so my child just finished eighth grade, so that's like 13, 12 13 but then both my kids played varsity sports so they were with when they were in seventh grade, so they were with a high, with high schoolers who were all communicating over like they communicated all of the sports information right. All the schedules all of the yeah everything's taking place there, and then they were going off on like seven hour trips, round trips to sports and what I'm supposed to just put them on a bus and say see you later right um you know, in this it it was, it was hard.

43:17
Um know you can lock phones down. We did that a lot, especially early on with my son. I scared him silly with a few internet horror stories to make sure he understood the dangers. But screen time limits that are built into phones are useless and crap.

43:40 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yes, easy to work around and Apple you need to fix that.

43:45 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
And then what we are seeing now, which I think is a good shift, is screen time tools within apps, so that parents can go in and put specific limits on specific apps inside the app rather than inside the ecosystem of the phone, which we need to see more of Now. We're also seeing more of like teen account type services, like Instagram now has a teen account. There are, you know, but my point being that this onus should not just be on the parent.

44:17
This needs to come from the companies as well, and we do need to probably see some legislation and some law making around understanding the impacts and how companies should approach just approach their product and how they present it to children, because right now I think there's a lot of. You know, get them young and then there'll be a customer for life. You know, it's very much akin to the cigarette industry in the 60s and 70s. Yeah, and this just makes it even more so, like it's proving, it's about the addiction, not so much the time, and that's the scary part.

44:50 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yeah. So when I look back at sort of the landscape of what would have been early tech but really was like early media, radio and surrounding technologies, what we saw was the US government seeing this public resource available and saying, okay, this is good, but also it needs to be regulated. And so the government came in and regulated these systems and put them in place. Hollywood started to become very popular Movies. The move in pictures started to become very popular movies. The move in pictures started to become very popular, and as that was happening, they realized that they did not want to have the government regulating them. So they said we will regulate ourselves. They introduced the rating system for films and held to that with every fiber of their being, so that there was never, you know, an opening in the armor right that the US government could say actually you failed to regulate, so now we're coming in and that has worked.

46:03
Then we saw the video game industry do the same to a certain extent.

46:07
There was a time period where, because of other things that were going on in the world, video games were being blamed for violence, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and there was kind of even more pushback and more kind of changes to how video games are regulated, but again, an industry regulating itself because they feared the federal government coming in and doing it for them and holding to and holding steadfast to these rules and fast forward to now.

46:36
And these big tech companies don't want to work together and figure out rating systems and hold to them because they're so big and they have so much money that not only do they not have to regulate themselves to keep the federal government from coming in and regulating them, but they can just pay the federal government to not come in and regulate them. And that is horrible. And this is like you just get to do what you want and then you hope that the federal government doesn't come and give you a slap on the wrist. And yes, we are literally just now starting to see, or have just started to see, kind of a change in that there's bigger penalties and especially, thank goodness, overseas we're seeing more pushback there. But, yeah, no one is agreeing on how these things should. You've got Apple doing its nutrition labels and implementing, implementing these things, but google's not doing it the same and, uh, meta has its.

47:34 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
All of these have their own rules and regulations, even though it's all this big techosphere and arguably the worst I'm gonna say that this is a big issue I had with tech, and this wasn't phones but was the Quest 2.

47:50 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
Oh really.

47:51 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Okay, yes, and this is where it kind of all kicked, because this was all during COVID and it even says in this report. It's kind of elitist the way that they push screen time limits because there are parents that just don't they need. It's a really useful tool to help keep your child occupied.

48:14 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
If both parents are working and working for longer hours than typical, and if you don't have the resources in place to understand how best to support your child, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, go ahead.

48:24 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yes, and it was very, and this was the. This is what happened. I mean, I'm quite tech savvy and we got the Quest 2, I was thinking of it as like a video game device and this was during COVID. So again, great, you know, to have a new experience.

48:38 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
You know we've got you can step out into the world, so to speak, without actually doing it.

48:42 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, and my daughter just loved it. She like glommed right onto it and was playing the games you know beat, saber and all that. I was like this is great. And then she started spending more and more, more, more, more, more time talking to people on it and I was like, oh, who are we talking to?

48:57
you, yeah, with my son I had always been super strict with like when he got an Xbox, I was like you can't be friends with anyone you don't know in real life. You know, or at least is like you know, someone that knows them in real life. You know, or at least is like you know someone that knows them in real life. Yeah, and I. It was a few weeks before I realized that she had joined a game called it's not a game, and I can't even remember the name now.

49:18 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Horizon Worlds.

49:19 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Uh, no, but it's um VRChat. Oh, and that's just called.

49:22 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
VRChat oh.

49:25 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
And it's just built in to the quest. I think you might have to download it, but it's like pushed, it's like a mess. I guess it is Zuck's sort of like. This is our world, where we all hang out, but everyone hangs out in this place. And you don't know who or what I mean. It got nasty quick and I took it away and just never used this thing since, but I had no idea, like there was no warning no labels like this.

49:52
You know there was no education out there, it didn't you know? Even as someone that understands a lot about technology, I was sort of blindsided by this system, and I think it was my son who finally brought it up. He's like do you know what she can do in there? Oh, wow, and I think it was my son who finally brought it up.

50:09 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
He's like do you know what she can do in there? Oh, wow, and.

50:10 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
I was like no, I thought it was just a game.

50:12 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yeah, exactly, and you're thinking, I mean, you're seeing Beat Saber, you're seeing those and you're not thinking these are fun things, especially because, even if it is a chat, you would think you have to add friends, or something like that.

50:23 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
This is like completely global Like, and there are just people there you're talking to. It was yeah.

50:28 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
I don't even want that in real life, so I'm impressed that there's a bunch of people around. Come on.

50:36 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, so that was definitely an eye opener for me because it and again, you know there are so many great things about the MetaQuest device.

50:43
Like you know, it's not about the technology, it's about the you know, the tools within it and what the experiences you're having and they're good and they're bad, and it's just like the internet there is this good out there and there's bad out there. So we need to and we need more help from the companies. For sure, there needs to be more industry regulation, especially helping educate parents on the type of content, and some kind of guidance like rating system. I mean, there is, it's there, but it's not granular enough to any extent Like this app. Vrchat, I believe, is like a U you know anyone can use because there's technically, it's not blood and guts. There's no, you know none of the kind of the things that you would expect to kick into, like an NR or an 18 or an over 16 kind of rating, because it's just a light place to come and chat.

51:36
But this, you know we need those kind of like how open is this? You know what kind of connections can people make? And like Roblox, roblox has done quite a good job with that in terms of parental controls, but again, you have to know to go in there and set all the bees. So it's a lot. But parents, if your kids have these devices, parents need to be able to take these types of actions and companies need to be able to need to offer better controls, for parents for sure, because these types of things can get addictive, as this study that we're talking about explains. That sort of dopamine hit that adults get too. This is not just for kids, I'm going to say, because adults are addicted to that as well.

52:25 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
This come into play at a time when the brain is still developing and, in particular, when it comes to the ability or inability to delay gratification and how delayed gratification is such an important skill to learn when you're young. It's a coping mechanism and if you don't have the opportunity to do that, it can have such an impact. I'm glad that these studies are going on to kind of dig in deeper, because it does mean that we can start to look at more legislation and in this case, look at legislation that, instead of just targeting screen access directly, we'll also look at maybe the underlying factors that it's about more than just screen access alone, but could have to do with behaviors. But could have to do with behaviors, given the context of the conversation. If you or someone you know is struggling, you can call or text 988 in the US. You can also head to findahelplinecom if you are outside of the United States to be able to reach someone who can help. We are going to take another quick break and then we'll be back for our final sort of silly story of the week. I want to tell you about ThreatLocker, who is bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly.

53:42
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Mark Tolson, the IT director for the city of Champaign, illinois, had this to say about ThreatLocker ThreatLocker provides that extra key to block anomalies that nothing else can do. If bad actors got in and tried to execute something, I take comfort in knowing ThreatLocker will stop that. So stop worrying about cyber threats. Get unprecedented protection quickly, easily and cost-effectively with ThreatLocker. Visit ThreatLockercom slash twit to get a free 30-day trial and learn more about how ThreatLocker can help mitigate unknown threats and ensure compliance. That's ThreatLockercom slash twit, and we thank ThreatLocker for sponsoring this week's episode of Tech News Weekly. All right, we are back from the break. And Jennifer Patterson, are you buying a new phone?

55:22 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
No, Okay, fair enough. Yeah, this is very interesting. I will admit I am interested in MVNOs, but probably not this one. I have been thinking about switching my entire family off Verizon because it's costed me a fortune. But there is a new MVNO. Well, a new plan, a new service on sale from our president, trump Mobile, the 47 plan, which is 47.45 a month, which, if you're a Trump fan, you will get the joke, and unfortunately so.

56:01
My site, the Verge, did a lot of coverage of this this week and sort of dove deep into this plan and the headline was Trump Mobile is a bad deal. So there are much better deals for this type of service out there, according to our research, because there are many of these MVNOs that use some of the large networks and resell service and apparently 47.45 per month is not a good deal. But the really interesting part about this, I think, for most tech nerds, is what is this phone? So he launched Trump Mobile, launched with a new plan and a new phone that Trump Mobile says is fully made in America which it's not.

56:46
It can't possibly be.

56:48
It couldn't possibly be made in america, proudly it just said there, um, and we did some digging, um allison johnson, who is our phone reviewer, um went through all of the various um inexpensive android phones that can be found around the rest of the world to see which one it most likely is that Trump Mobile has said it's going to be launching with this plan and it's $499, I believe was the price of the phone, which is relatively cheap, and they said, built in the United States, although there were some comments from one of the Trump sons who is helping run this later saying that the plan is to eventually build it entirely in the.

57:38 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
United. States so we shall see if that ever actually happens.

57:43 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
But yes, because there is a phone. There's one phone that's made in the US and it's called the Liberty phone and it's like $2,000. The idea of a $500 phone being manufactured in the US, I don't know, maybe Trump's going to subsidize it for everyone. But yeah, there's a few guesses on our website, the Doge. It looks like a Doge Note 58 or a Ulefone Note 18. I have never heard of any of these phones, ulefone, you?

58:10 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
I have never heard of any of these phones the blue G8 4.

58:13 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
That's the one I'm going for because it has like a nice marbly shiny back, which is what. But the photo on the release of this did look like a really badly photoshopped phone. So it doesn't look like this phone actually exists yet.

58:25 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
but oh so not even, not even the gold, gold looking.

58:29 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
We don't even think that that's done yet I mean, does that look like a real phone to you? No, no, I mean, look at the lenses and where's the flash?

58:38 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
and I was. Yeah, the lenses are cracking me up. That's a fidget spinner spinner stuck to the side of a phone um, but yeah, it's, it was kind of.

58:48 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
And also, I think if you read the fine print, it does actually say right at the bottom that this is not associated. Trump Mobile is not associated with the Trump organization in any way, or something like that. It's like, oh, it's like a what's the word Like? Not a subsidiary, but we've licensed the name.

59:05 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Got it.

59:06 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
So yeah, I mean. If anyone wants to license my name, get in touch it's been run by eric, though I think I think it's eric. What's the other one called?

59:17 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
uh, I, I couldn't tell you. I tried to know as little as possible about them, um, but yeah, okay. So wait, it's run by one of the sons, but it's not part of the.

59:28 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Trump organization.

59:30 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
That's cool.

59:32 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, there it goes. It says it somewhere down there yeah, trump name. Yeah, it's so. It is just trademarks. It's not actually Trump himself, but Trump. It's like the Trump Bible, I guess. Right, that was right. These are it's all like legal stuff, I suppose, but people are going to buy this Legally yeah. Yeah, right. And so who is going to buy this? Who is the market for this? I guess you get, you get. What do you get for this for 45,?

01:00:03 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
47, 45 a month. Yeah, what do you get?

01:00:11 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
You get 20,. You get 20 gigabytes of high-speed cell service and hotspot data. You get unlimited talk and text and international calling.

01:00:16 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
But that does seem, I mean most Except in countries that we don't trade with.

01:00:20 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Right. But like Google Fi, you get 30 gig of data for 35 a month. So, boost Mobile, you get 30 gig for 25 a month. So this is not a particularly good deal. And then you buy the phone on top of it. Um, I don't think you get any sort of benefit out of that. But, um, I know I am not a cell phone plan data nerd, but my, my colleagues are. So there's lots of great info on the website, on the Verge, if you want to dig a little deeper. But yeah, this just it just feels icky, the whole being, you know, marketing the president, and into, you know, in products that you buy because you're a fan, it just, you know that's fine for, like, sabrina Carpenter, but not for the president of the United.

01:01:08 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
States. The Sabrina Carpenter phone, carpenter phone, jennifer is all on board. I love it. Well, okay, so here's the thing. I, yeah, I think now my biggest concern honestly is that I buy this phone and it doesn't even have 30 gigs of data, because if we can lie about one thing, we can lie about any of the aspects of this. So I wouldn't even know if I'm getting that amount of data and if that's good. It's 40, uh, 40, 46, 40 or yeah it 47 45.

01:01:41
Thank you, I don't know why I was an off by one error 47, 45, uh, his, his presidencies, and are there going to be a bunch of of added fees that we, you know, are prepared for? I wanted to say, though, back to your earlier talk, because you also talk about how, in this other piece, alison Johnson, as you mentioned, talks about how Donald Trump and Ryan Reynolds can easily sell you phone plans and how it's about MVNOs. It's become a thing celebrity fans we should talk about-.

01:02:10 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
We blame Ryan Reynolds.

01:02:11 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
We should talk about MVNOs, though, for people who don't understand them, so we'll talk about that next. Yeah, yeah, so MVNOs are sort of riding on the services provided by the big mobile carriers and because they kind of buy packages of data and cut costs in other ways, they can end up saving you money. My significant other uses Mint Mobile and has now for some time, and loves it. It saves him.

01:02:45 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
That's the Ryan Reynolds one right.

01:02:46 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yeah, that's the Ryan Reynolds one and that saves him. And I should mention Mint Mobile has been a sponsor on the network before, so I just want to note that. But regardless, he loves the service and it's again saved him a bunch of money, especially when I sit down next to him with my AT&T bill and go.

01:03:04 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
I don't understand. I still haven't figured out. I know I need to sit down and do the math, but yeah, the idea is it saves you money, but potentially you don't get like that. I think the biggest thing is right.

01:03:14 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Support is usually pretty bad.

01:03:16 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Oh, okay, that's one I didn't know about because I haven't actually done it yet, but you so. For example, I have Verizon is our major carrier in this area. I mean, we have all the carriers but, like you get the best reception on Verizon. So I've looked at moving to Xfinity mobile because I also have to have their service for my internet, because it's my only option, and they're an MVNO of Verizon. So if you move to Xfinity you're getting Verizon service. But what can happen and this is what they say in the fine print is that when networks are busy, the MVNO customers might be deprioritized or they'll have less access to the servers and I live in an area where we have hurricanes and my husband is a firefighter and he actually he really needs.

01:04:05
In fact, he gets priority service with the.

01:04:07 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
I was going to say does he get a register? That's cool. I'd read about that somewhere that there's sort of a blessing that emergency folks can get. That's really neat.

01:04:16 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yes, so that they can be more likely to get access. I mean, in a hurricane, quite often no one can.

01:04:21 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
No one will, but yeah.

01:04:23 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
It's not even about volume, it's more about infrastructure. But know, considering all scenarios, we've kind of stuck with Verizon for the for that reason. But it does feel like a small reason when I look at my $230 a bill every month and I'm like maybe I should switch us because there's four of us on our on our plan and it's very expensive. Um, but yeah, they are great for and the other. The other issue I've had with MVNOs which seems to have got better is that hotspotting was limited and I use hotspotting because I like to work on different places you use a lot.

01:04:55 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yeah, I don't. You shouldn't switch then?

01:04:58 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Yeah, that's what I've been? Yeah, so the last time I talked to Xfinity they said that that's now unlimited. But I don't know.

01:05:04 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Unlimited at 0.2 kilobytes per second or something. Yeah, I know, Maybe you could end up not that that's what this show is for, but maybe you could end up saving money by moving the family members who don't need that priority. Oh, just put my kids on the train. Yeah, don't tell them. I said that.

01:05:27 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
Uncle Micah what did?

01:05:29 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
I do, and we actually thought he was cool until now. Uh yeah, but maybe that's how you do it, cause it does it gets so pricey. It's, it's uh and oh, that's the other thing. Uh, he has an Apple watch cellular. Can't use it with the with the cellular Apple watch Interesting, so uh I think that might change though, because it has been acquired by t-mobile and I think that that could potentially move it into that area. But yeah, that's been one of his frustrating uh aspects.

01:06:00 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
It's a funny thing when you're like so the way they sell it too, you know they're using the same line, so why wouldn't you pay less? Yeah, what the ads all say, yeah, and you're going, why wouldn't? You pay less, which is what the ads all say.

01:06:10 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Yeah, and you're going why wouldn't I? Why am I not paying less? Yeah, and I'm having to confront it in myself, but you kind of have to dig down.

01:06:16 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
and yeah, I've generally heard and you know this is very biased and mean and I'm sorry, but it's great. If you're single there, that's yes If you don't have other people, one phone, but for families, not so much, because you do get a lot of benefits like breaks, deals yeah, exactly more devices that you have, the less expensive each new devices and all that kind of thing, and then also the deals for new phones and trade-ins are often better on main carriers. That was the other thing, because, yeah, we break a lot of phones.

01:06:53 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Oh yeah, you should stay where you are then I think I don't know how we got here, but I love it. I love talking with you, jen. It's always a pleasure. So much fun.

01:07:04 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
We covered everything today.

01:07:06 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
We did. We have the gamut of tech news.

01:07:19 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
We did. We have the gamut of tech news. If people would like to follow you online and check out all of your prolific and wonderful work, where do they go to do that? Also, I'm on the socials, mainly at smarthomemama, although you might find me at jp2e at a couple places. Blue Sky and Threads are probably my main haunts, but yeah, thevergecom, and then this. I'm just going to do a little plug for this summer. I'm going to be doing some guest hosting on the Verge's podcast, the Verge Cast.

01:07:49 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
That's so exciting.

01:07:50 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy (Co-host)
You can catch me on there. A couple episodes this summer.

01:07:54 - Mikah Sargent (Host)
Oh, I'm looking forward to it. Awesome, all right. Well, thank you so much for being here and we'll see you again soon. All right, thanks, bye, all righty folks. The Tech News Weekly has wrapped. I don't know why that took me so long to say, but the show publishes every Thursday at twittv slash TNW. That is where you can go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats.

01:08:16
I want to remind you all about Club Twit at twittv slash Club Twit. When you join the club we have monthly subscriptions and yearly subscriptions you gain access to some awesome benefits. Every single one of our shows ad-free. It's just the content, none of the ads. You also gain access to the Twit plus bonus feeds yes, that's right. Feeds including our clips, our news and our shows, and access to the members only Discord server, a fun place to go to chat with your fellow Club members and also those of us here at Twit. There. You also gain access to special Club Twit events.

01:08:49
I just had my crafting corner last night. We had another great time making more crafts, hanging out, having a good chat, and you also can watch our live coverage of special tech news events. All of that is only available to you as a member of Club Twit, so join the club twittv slash club twit. If you'd like to follow me online, I'm at Micah Sargent on many a social media network where you can head to chihuahuacoffee that's C-H-I-H-U-A-H-U-Acoffee, where I've got links to the places I'm most active online. And be sure to check out my other shows, many of which publish later today. Hands on Apple, hands on Tech will publish on Sunday, and iOS Today as well. Thank you so much for being here and I will see you again next week for another episode of Tech News Weekly.

01:09:41 - Leo Laporte (Announcement)
Bye-bye. The tech world moves fast and you need to keep up for your business, for your life. The best way to do that twittv. The best way to do that? Twittv On this Week in Tech. I bring together tech's best and brightest minds to help you understand what just happened and prepare for what's happening next. It's your first podcast of the week and the last word in tech.

01:10:00
Cybersecurity experts know they can't miss a minute of Security Now. Every week with Steve Gibson, what you don't know could really hurt your business, but there's nothing Steve Gibson doesn't know. Tune in Security Now every Wednesday. Every Thursday, industry expert Micah Sargent brings you interviews with tech journalists who make or break the top stories of the week on Tech News Weekly. And if you use Apple products, you won't want to miss the premier Apple podcast now in its 20th year MacBreak Weekly. Then there's Paul Theriot and Richard Campbell. They are the best connected journalists covering Microsoft and every week they bring you their insight and wit on Windows Weekly. Build your tech intelligence week after week with the best in the business. Your seat at tech's most entertaining and informative table is waiting at twittv. Subscribe now.