Tech News Weekly 358 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Mikah Sargent
Coming up on Tech News Weekly. Jennifer Pattison Tuohy joins me, Mikah Sargent and we start the show by talking about the FTC's new click to cancel rule, how we're finally finally getting a ruling that says you got to make it as easy to cancel a subscription as it is to sign up for one. Then I talk about Apple Pay it's just entered its 10th year and Jennifer Pattison Tuohy and I talk about how tap-to-pay has changed over time and look forward to a future where more comes to our digital wallet. Then Jason Howell of TechSploder stops by to tell us about what's new in Android with Android 15 and what's coming to Pixel devices in particular. Before David Carnoy of CNET joins us, who had the opportunity to go hands on with all of Amazon's new Kindles and shows off the paperwhite on screen. All of that coming up on Tech News Weekly.

0:01:11 - Mikah Sargent
This is tech news weekly, episode 358, with Jennifer Pattison Tuohy and me, Mikah Sargent, recorded Thursday, October 17th, 2024. FTC's new click to cancel rule. Hello and welcome to tech news weekly, the show where every week we talk to and about the people FTC's new click-to-cancel rule. Still going to hear my spiel, which is that, uh, each week I bore it well, each week. But the fifth week, to be clear, uh, I bring on awesome guests to join me for the first half of the show, and it is Jennifer Pattison to eastern. Welcome back Jennifer

0:01:57 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
Hi Mikah, great to be here, as always. My second appearance on TWiT this week, so I'm yeah, you really put in your hours this week.

0:02:08 - Mikah Sargent
I have Hours and hours, and hours, so I'm very appreciative that you were able to still join me here on Tech News Weekly. For people who are again, you know, first time here, we kick things off by talking about our kind of stories of the week. These are stories that stuck out to us, or, in some cases, it's a story that broke this morning or came out this morning that I just thought was very interesting and thought was worth sharing. In any case, though, we don't start with my story, we start with Jennifer's.

0:02:39 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
And my story is the most exciting thing that has happened in a very long time. I'm just going to start there, you know, just build up the tension. So this happened on Wednesday, which was yesterday, sorry, my week is and basically the FTC is going to make it really easy to cancel your subscriptions. It's like whoa, this is so exciting. It's called Click to Cancel and this was actually proposed last year but has been approved and will go into effect in six months time. And the idea behind this is that, as I'm sure everyone listening has experienced, it's got so much easier to sign up for things and join programs, memberships, online by just clicking join, or on your smartphone or on your smart TV. If you want to watch a show and it's like, oh, do you want to sign up for HBO to watch this show? Or Max, sorry, click here and you're subscribed. And then you're like, oh well, maybe I don't want this anymore, maybe I want to cancel this. Or maybe I don't want to be a member of this gym anymore and I want to cancel it.

This is the sort of law of cancellation is how hard it is to cancel a gym membership, and the FTC is basically making it required that companies, no matter what company they are. This includes cable TV, gyms, online subscription services, macs, Netflix all of these services that you pay for monthly or yearly or however often you have to be able to sign. You have to be able to cancel just as easily as you signed up. And I just went through this whole process about three months ago when I was like trimming the bills, you know, I was like I've got too many services, I'm going to cancel a few. And it was ridiculous the number of services. I couldn't actually find a way to cancel online. There was nothing, or if it was there, it was buried in many menus and you have to click through seven or eight marketing opportunities.

That's trying to convince you to stay. The New York Times is a good example of this. It will keep trying to say oh well, how about you'd like it for half price? Will you stay now? And then there's a little button right down the bottom that says continue in tiny tiny letters if you want to subscribe and to continue to cancel. So this is going to fix that problem for everyone, and this is a problem that everyone has experienced. So yay, linda Khan, yay FTC. I'm excited about this. Are you excited about?

0:05:24 - Mikah Sargent
this, michael, oh, very, very excited about this. So I have been watching this make its way through the system actually, and knew that it existed as a concept and was waiting for it to be, you know, put into play, because this is easily one of the like. It is absolutely the bane of my existence. I am notoriously very bad at canceling subscriptions. I'm going to give a few examples here, because this is the opportunity for me to bear my shame.

When I first moved to California back in 2019, I wanted to have I have drinking water, and I wanted to have drinking water and have it very easily at my home and not have to use a bunch of plastic bottles that you buy at the store.

So I got a water subscription and so you know, regularly they deliver five gallon bottles of water to the thing and it had a dispenser and everything. And then I finally took the time and there are people in California you're going to be mad at me about this, but I finally took the time. For many, many years I have had, and always would install at each place I lived in my reverse osmosis water system, but basically, when I got hired at Twit, it was kind of like a hey, we'd like you to come work for us and then me moving very soon after, and so I knew that within the first few months I was going to just be getting settled in a new place, so I didn't have time to get that water set up. Finally, I got it set up, had the drinking water from my RO system, but I didn't want to call and cancel the stupid water subscription service because I knew they were going to try to get me to stay in all these different ways.

And so I just spent 20 miles on the phone, go through a phone tree to get to them, or a chat bot, or during a certain period of time and you, if you call at the wrong time, then they're not there, and so I kept getting five-gallon bottles of water delivered to my door for way longer than I should have, I'm embarrassed to admit, and just had, I basically looked like a doomsday prepper. Finally I canceled it. That's one example. The other example is that when I was moving to Oregon, where I am now, I knew I needed to cancel my internet service, and I knew the first thing they were going to do was try to figure out if the new place that I lived was going to have their internet service. It did, but I was getting something else, because I wanted fiber. So I said I know what I'm going to do. I am going to tell the person that I am moving to I think I said Sweden, I'm moving, I've done that.

0:08:10 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
I'm moving back to England. Sorry, you get a real pass, right yeah?

0:08:15 - Mikah Sargent
exactly. I said I'm moving to Sweden. I double checked that the service wasn't somehow offered there and then it was a. It was kind of a bummer because the very kind, very sweet person on the other end of the phone was then asking me about like, oh, that's a big move, how come was it? It's like it's related to your life story?

0:08:32 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
Yeah, exactly.

0:08:34 - Mikah Sargent
But they didn't try to upsell me. They didn't or downsell me, I guess, because really you know be a discount or whatever, and that made me happy, but I was also really sad about it. So basically what I'm saying is I go through a lot of hurdles, aka, or I otherwise don't go through any hurdles and just ignore it until it becomes a problem. So I am very excited about this. This is going to save me so much headache.

0:08:54 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
Yes, so exciting and there's a few sort of I mean there's a few areas that it's you know. I think we may not see this necessarily go into effect day one. I think companies will be working through the new laws and also the fine I believe is relatively small. So I think how quickly we're actually going to see this benefit remains to be seen. But I think it's really interesting in understanding the way the internet has completely transformed the way we interact with companies and you know, being able to have this instant connection to a company by just pressing a button and suddenly you're subscribed and you're you know that's been a benefit, like it's been so much easier to do things than it ever has in the past.

But that flip side where things are so complicated that we've all ended up I mean there are entire industries now, entire businesses based on helping us manage our subscriptions and helping us cut back on our subscriptions, because subscription overload has just gone crazy. It's not just the cable company or your electric bills, it's everything there is a subscription for. There could be a subscription for almost anything in your life today and it's useful because you know paying for things in bulk upfront is expensive. It's great to be able to have these opportunities and have the flexibility.

But one thing I'd noticed in the last I guess it's been about two years, maybe a bit less, and this leads into our next story to some extent is that Apple has made it so much easier. Apple has clicked to cancel for subscriptions. Right Now, if you subscribe to something through your iPhone, it's so much easier to cancel than any other way. But you know there are downsides to that too. But I was like why can't everything be this easy to just click off? I don't want this anymore. For instance, I signed up during the pandemic to a number of online subscription services. Butcherbox is one of them.

I don't know if you're familiar but it's where they ship fresh meat well frozen, but frozen fresh meat to your door, you know, because we were all avoiding supermarkets. And fresh meat to your door, you know because we were all avoiding supermarkets. I also signed up for Naked Wines, which is a wine subscription service, and I loved them. They were great, but then it gets to the point where I don't need this every month. Both of those companies I ended up there was nothing on their website that explained how to cancel.

There was no phone number because a lot of companies don't let you call them anymore.

Like it's just not possible to do. There's no phone number for most of these new online companies, so I had to email them both and, you know, wait six to seven days before most they got back to me, because email seems to always be a very slow form of communicating with companies. To their credit, to both companies' credits they did my first email Okay, we've cancelled and we've refunded you the difference, which was great, but still it's like I shouldn't have to go through that process of waiting and just being able to cancel with a click if you signed up with a click, and then the other option being, if you signed up in person, the new rules are going to say you have to be able to cancel over the phone. I think one they actually bring this up in several of the articles about the new policy is that you shouldn't have to mail a letter to cancel your gym membership, which appears to be one of the ways I think Planet Fitness is named in here makes you you have to send a letter in order to cancel.

0:12:20 - Mikah Sargent
That is ridiculous.

0:12:21 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
I mean who uses. I haven't bought a stamp in years. I wouldn't know how to do that Well. I know how to do it, but it's a pain. Don't make things hard, because the beauty of making it easy to cancel is it's easy for people to resubscribe to, and that's very much the culture, I think. A lot of services people will sign up for for maybe two or three months and if you make it easy to cancel, then you're more likely to come back.

And it's also addressing the issue of stealth subscriptions.

So, for example, if you sign up for a free trial, they have to be very, very clear about when you'll start to get charged.

There has to be notifications when you start to get charged, these sort of stealth subscriptions that I'm sure many people have sort of fallen into the trap of. For example, I had a Comcast experience where I just tried out their live streaming live channels. So I wanted local channels but I didn't have an antenna and I didn't want a cable box. But they brought out the option for doing live streaming local channels, but I didn't have an antenna and I didn't want a cable box. But they brought out the option for doing live streaming local channels. And they sent me a box and they said you know, you can cancel in 30 days if you don't like it. And I canceled in 30 days and I said you know, do I need to do anything? They said no, no, no. And then, two years later, I happened to look at my bill and they had been charging me $10 a month for this box. I was so mad they did refund me.

0:13:51 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, that's good, that's good.

0:13:53 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
But after, like you know, three and a half hours on hold and lots of yelling. So that is the end of this for us, hopefully no more having to stay on hold. Maybe you know, I know there's actually is it Google that has the capability to be on hold for you? Yes, so you know, maybe we won't need that anymore, although there are still many companies that you have to try and get on the phone to get anything resolved. But yay, ftc, I'm excited.

0:14:24 - Mikah Sargent
This is a big one. It's for the consumer, yes, and that's what I love and I feel like, if there's one, well actually I would say two, I'd say FCC and FTC, both. You really just see them make decisions sometimes that just directly impact the consumer, and I love that. Yeah, I think it's pretty great and I realize you know part of that is because that's their direct focus, but it's just it's cool to see these very large organizations working towards something that is impactful to the average user.

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All right, we are back from the break and that means it is time for my story of the week I wanted to mention and this startup, being kind of focused on Apple, but it is kind of a larger conversation about the tap-to-pay experience in general. Apple put out a post this morning called Apple Celebrates 10 Years of Apple Pay, and in it they talk about what has changed over the years as Apple Pay has been introduced, over the years as Apple Pay has been introduced, and throughout this piece they talk about kind of some of the ideas that they have going forward, and I think that's where this conversation is interesting or is particularly interesting. But I want to, with the launch of Apple Pay, having so much skepticism as a US individual. In other countries tap to pay was a little bit more prominent, but here in the US, and particularly where I was in the Midwest at the time, I thought, yeah, no, that's not going to happen, and it was this thing that I wanted to try. But I was always nervous to try because I thought, oh boy, I'm going to be that person who's taking up too much time in line and then finally getting used to it over time and now pretty much using it everywhere I go.

It's not just in the US either. In many, many places around the world Apple Pay is regularly used. It is one of my favorite things when I lived especially in California was the transit option, so that I could just tap my Apple Watch or my phone against the transit option and it would automatically choose my Clipper card and move me right along. The other thing about Apple Pay that kind of stands out and, I think, makes it such a great product or service, is the fact that when you are doing a transaction at a place, your actual card details are never shared with that company, and so it cuts down on fraud. It cuts down on breaches Well, you know the impact of breaches, rather, and I think that's what makes it even better, so that it's one of these rare things where the feature lines up with so much more. You know, it's the convenience that makes it the reason why a lot of people are using it, but because it's convenient, because a lot of people are using it along the way, they're also getting the benefit of this security, this privacy that's involved as well.

Now, with all that in mind, I want to talk about some of the things that Apple is working on in mind. I want to talk about some of the things that Apple is working on With iOS 18, there are going to be some installment loan options that are built in and I want to kind of talk about that separately, because this is an interesting topic with lots of thoughts and also the ability to redeem rewards for certain credit cards and banks. So Discover Credit Cards, for example, is going to integrate to give users the ability to redeem a cash back reward, which is pretty cool. Apparently, pretty soon, people who have a PayPal debit card will be able to view their balance actually in the Apple Wallet app, and so it's just becoming clear that over time, apple is really expanding on this technology to add so many different features to really try to replace your wallet, which is neat.

And then, of course, apple Pay is one aspect of Apple Wallet. The other aspect of Apple Wallet is the introduction of the licensing system that's available for some states, so being able to add your license and use it at an airport is pretty much the only place, it seems like, and only at some airports, but hopefully that will expand as well. So I wanted to ask you first and foremost about your experience with Tap to Pay and Apple Pay, and then we can kind of talk about a couple of these things before we have to say and foremost about your experience with tap to pay and Apple Pay, and then we can kind of talk about a couple of these things before we have to say goodbye.

0:21:30 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
Yeah Well, and also one thing they don't mention in the press release that is going to be very interesting is that Apple Pay, or the tap to pay with your phone, is going to be opened up to third party developers with iOS 18.1 because of the antitrust cases and some new rules in the eu. Um, apple has to open this up because it's considered a lock-in and it was one of the it's. One of the key parts of the us government's antitrust case against apple is that this is a lock-in and it is a lock-in but it works really well, which is you know how. How lock-in and it is a lock-in but it works really well, which is you know how lock-ins work. But it will be interesting that I mean, we don't know what it's going to look like yet, but the NFC chip in the Apple phones will have to be accessible to third-party developers. So in theory, you might have a different type of tap-to-pay or tap-to-anything on your phones in the future. But in terms of how I've used it so you mentioned Europe earlier and it is interesting because the last I live in a rural area, more rural area, I live in South Carolina and using Apple Pay up until maybe a year ago was pretty rare.

There weren't many places that accepted it. And then when I was in England I think a visit sort of two or three years ago that was the only way people paid for things everywhere. There was not a single place I went, not even like a tiny little gift shop, not a chain store or anything, or no. All restaurants except it, everywhere in England accepts Apple Pay and the alternatives you know, if you have an Android phone, so Google Pay, samsung Pay. It's the form of pain in Europe and also, well, in England specifically, and that's because they've had tap to pay with your card for so long that the infrastructure was there. It was a very easy switch. So I've really you know that was my trip to England a couple of years ago really sort of opened it up to me.

It's like, wow, this is just so much better and not having to carry my wallet around, except for having to carry my driver's license in the States, you don't have to carry a driver's license with you in Europe, so you can just what? You do not have to carry a driver's license, no, so you could just leave the house with your phone and that is all you needed. And one thing we also didn't mention about the NFC chip is it's a key for your home, and your phone can be a key for your car if you have the right car with the UWB chip. So, yeah, I want to get to the stage where I can just walk out of my house and the only thing I have to have with me is my phone, or even my watch. And I actually got the cellular version, the first, my first apple watch for cellular, and I just got the new apple watch.

Um, my, I had an se, so I was long due for an upgrade, um, and and I got cellular for precisely that reason. I won't be able to have that function. I mean the freedom of not having to carry anything. Um is is. It's the future.

I'm excited very excited and it's great for having kids too, because I can just text my daughter five pounds $5, to Apple Cash and she can tap to pay with Apple Cash without having to have a bank account or having to give her a debit card or give her cash. And that convenience is yeah, it's unmatched.

0:25:09 - Mikah Sargent
Isn't the pound worth more than the dollar right now? I think I would ask for five pounds.

0:25:12 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
It's always worth. The pound's always worth more than the dollar. Yeah, I'm like I will take that five pounds.

0:25:18 - Mikah Sargent
Thank you, yeah, this is. I'm really excited about this too. Of course, as is fair in the chat, they're talking about how you should carry cash on you. Computers go down, et cetera, et cetera won't even take cash Exactly when I am for sure.

0:25:32 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
That's the case and that freaks out Americans, americans get real weird about that they're like ah boy, some, some folks do not like that idea.

0:25:53 - Mikah Sargent
Many of my family members back in Missouri would be, and are very much against this idea that cash can't, you know, be used at a place you know. Nevermind, I won't go into that.

0:26:06 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
So yeah.

0:26:08 - Mikah Sargent
I understand. Yeah, if the infrastructure goes down, you know, then I'll give you my gold tooth.

0:26:14 - Mikah Sargent
So I don't have a gold tooth. Don't try to take my tooth.

0:26:18 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, I, I think that that the part, that part of is really cool. I've been enjoying some of the features that have been added to apple pay, like being able to track orders. Uh, when that does work.

0:26:28 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
It doesn't seem to work every time, but when sites have that enabled, that's been really nice well, being able to use it online is a newish thing which I've really liked, because I hate having to type in my um details to a random website. I don't really like the filling in in thing. Never, always works because I have to put, go and get my code that I don't remember. Um, and then the other option like the Shopify. You know, sometimes those things work, sometimes they don't, but the nice oh, I just saw in chat Home Depot just added Apple Pay.

Someone was saying they were waiting for Home Depot to add it and they finally did, like last week. So it's, you know, the momentum is definitely there and so, yeah, being able to use Apple Pay online I really like. But one of the things that I noticed recently that's new and you mentioned is this Klana, I actually went to use Apple Pay last night to buy a ticket for Fright Nights, which is at a local farm for my daughter and the Boone Hall Fright Nights, and I went to and I was using Apple Pay because, again, it's one of those websites where it's not hasn't got a good UI and you have to type in in a tiny little text box your entire credit card number and just giving it off to some farm. So I used Apple Pay, I was pleased to see it was there and then it gave me the option to pay for this ticket in three monthly payments and I was like, oh, this is new.

Not going to use it, but nice to see the option so yeah, that's already appeared. I'm not on the better, so think that's must be an 18 is it.

0:28:01 - Mikah Sargent
There are, yeah, there are um some. I think it's yeah, it's clarna specifically that works currently, and what they're adding is a firm um is oh, another one. Okay, yeah, yeah you, and that's the thing. Um, I worry, and we do have to get going, but the last thing I wanted to say about it was we started late.

We did start a little late. My next guest is waiting, though, so I did worry that. I do worry that having those buy now, pay later options just so easy to get to is I mean get to is. I mean, I'll tell you, I'm of mixed minds about this, because there's a part of me that worries that my concern about this is already a little bit out of touch in a way, because some people do genuinely need some sort of help when it comes to paying for things, and so I I understand that, because growing up, this that is very much the world I lived in, and so I like that people are like the things are more accessible in that way. But then I've also seen how, when things are more accessible like payday loans, for example, example I've had family members get involved in that stuff and that does not go well.

It's a very slippery slope, and so when you're right there on your phone and you see a thing you want and then it's so easy to just do that, that's much harder than or much easier than, for example, having to fill out which is still very easy fill out a credit card application and get a credit card and run up your debt that way Still easy to do, but a little bit more complicated than this instant gratification of this. And it was honestly a little depressing that every time I use Instacart which again here's me kind of sounding like an elitist I get my groceries delivered. Seeing that every time would you like to pay for these groceries with Klarna, and it makes me think about folks who are doing that Just do that.

Every time paying for your groceries that way and hey, if you're paying it, great. I just I think that there's an aspect of it that feels a little predatory. That's what I'm getting at.

0:30:18 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
Well, it's the flip side of what we're talking about. Initially, like making it easy to subscribe and easy to cancel, these are great conveniences. But you're right, it takes away, perhaps, that friction that makes you think before you do it, and remove that friction. That's what it is. Yes, the thinking, that's what.

0:30:37 - Mikah Sargent
I'm getting at. That is how I want to describe it, because that helps me kind of. That's what it is. You just I would like people to be given the opportunity to think a little bit more before they pop into that it's. It's funny. I there's a. I think why this is like a struggle for me is a there's a family member who pops up in my head as I'm talking about these kinds of things, and so it's kind of a it it's a tough, it's a tough situation.

0:31:02 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
I hope it's something you could turn off, cause if it's on my, if I once my son has a credit card, I don't want him to have the option to do it Just constantly.

0:31:09 - Mikah Sargent
Oh you know these, these $500 sneakers or trainers that were out of reach are suddenly within reach because I can split them up over, you know, five, six payments. So yeah, but.

0:31:21 - Jennifer Pattison Tuohy
Apple Pay is good. I like Apple Pay. I would say yeah, I agree it is definitely been a great and the safe.

The security thing is huge, which you mentioned. So, yeah, but yes, I was just one thing. This is the 10th anniversary of Apple Pay, right, which is why this was introduced, and I, just before I go, I wanted to point everyone to thevergecom today because it's a big anniversary year 2024. And there's a lot, and we have done a 20 year. Look back.

The Verge is in 2004 right now and there are so many awesome retro stories that I think everyone, everyone, all of your listeners are gonna really enjoy this. One's mine, but there's many, and so basically, the kind of concept of this is that 2004 is was the beginning of the future, of the future that we're living in today. So many big companies Started in 2004 and there's some just and the design on this is out of the world. You need to go look at it on a desktop if you can, but there's so many Easter eggs in here and I think everyone on the call, everyone on the Twit listeners will and viewers will really enjoy a lot of the look backs there. There's Gmail, there's Dig, there's oh, there's just everything Motorola, flip phones. It's a real walk down memory lane. So go check that out and I look forward to seeing you all in a couple of weeks.

0:32:52 - Mikah Sargent
Yeah, see you again soon, Jennifer. Thank you so much for your time today. All right, bye, All righty, we're gonna take a quick break before we come back with our first of two interviews. I just want to tell you quickly about ThreatLocker, who are bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. A question I think I already know the answer to Do zero-day exploits and supply chain attacks keep you up at night. Well, worry no more. You can harden your security with ThreatLocker.

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0:35:12 - Jason Howell
Hey, I'm over here TechSploding upstairs, downstairs.

0:35:17 - Jason Howell
Whatever the technology calls for, I'll be there, Downstairs, downstairs whatever the technology calls for, I'll be there.

0:35:21 - Mikah Sargent
Well, today it calls for your help because I saw that Android 15 has released for Pixel devices, but I wanted to get some clarification before we get into things. I was hoping you'd kind of help me out, because I thought that I remembered reading that Android 15 launched back in September, so maybe you could help us understand the difference between a source code release and the actual rollout.

0:35:47 - Jason Howell
Yeah, I mean essentially it's who is the release for primarily right, like Google has with its major releases, they have this long, long scale map and all these different stages, you know, developer preview, blah, blah, blah. Pre release, all this kind of stuff. Finally, they get to the release of the source code, which is essentially kind of the thumbs up for developers to say if you haven't already, it's time to get busy, it's time to validate. For anyone who feels motivated or inclined, you can go ahead and grab that source code, and there's a lot of easy ways to do this now, so that not just developers can do it, but you can put it on your device and you can live LaVita Android 15 earlier than kind of what they did this week, which is they basically said all right, android 15, all systems go.

We're pushing it out to all, you know, all supported devices, immediately the ones that we have control over, which for Google, that's Pixel devices, and then all the other manufacturers. You know they basically have to validate and get it rolling out to their devices as well. So think of like this, this phase, as being kind of like the all systems go. Yes, it's been out for a while, but now we want everyone to enjoy it. If you're a manufacturer or you're OEM, we'll let you.

0:37:08 - Mikah Sargent
Got it. Okay, that makes sense. Now we should talk about, then, some of the new features that Google announced as part of the rollout in PixelDrop and up. First, I saw some conversation about theft detection lock, which I think is a pretty cool feature that I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about.

0:37:26 - Jason Howell
Yeah for sure. This is a really cool feature, actually, and this kind of goes in line with Google is really trying to make changes to Android that make it less appealing to people who are out and about in the world just looking for a device to steal and then resell or turn into a burner phone or I don't know what people do with it once they sell devices. But it's also kind of an extension of something that Google has been doing in other directions. We've seen a little bit of this in earthquake detection, where they realize we've got all these devices seated out there and they've got all sorts of sensors and all this data and information. How can we use those sensors and that data in other ways to help users? And so this is one of those ways that they're achieving both of those goals Artificial intelligence, machine learning, models on device that actually detect when a potential theft attempt is taking place, and that includes, you know, pinging different signals from the device, the different sensors they've, they've analyzed the patterns, all that kind of stuff, and so it can automatically lock the screen if it identifies the pattern that seems to in indicate that this phone has suddenly been snatched out of someone's hand, and then, shortly after that motion, there's the running motion or the biking or the driving away.

All of these things kind of collectively together indicate, you know, based on their data and these models, that, oh, that phone's probably, with high level-level certainty, been stolen.

Now we can act on that, so you can lock down the phone immediately when you detect that pattern. It also works alongside offline device lock, which essentially means sometimes thieves would take the phone and they'd immediately power it down so that it doesn't ping a network until they can take it to a place later where it can't get onto a network or something and do whatever their systems are that give them access. These features actually work. When the device is powered off after a certain amount of time, it's like oh you know what? We're going to lock this phone if it's been in that state for too long, based on what they say, and the cool thing about this is, yes, it's introduced with Android 15, but it's actually supported on versions much earlier than that. I think it goes all the way down to Android 10. The main thing to know, though, is that you got to enable it first. This is one of those features that you got to opt into, because it's using all those extra sensors and that sort of stuff.

0:39:56 - Mikah Sargent
Gotcha. Now there's also something called private space, which has a cool name and I wish it was about, I don't know, space travel, but anytime soon because of this feature, private space is essentially a digital safe on your phone and within the android device, isolated from the main user space, and so you can do a lot of things with something like this.

0:40:31 - Jason Howell
Like you can hide apps from the main app drawer, you can tie private space to a different google account. So if you want to have a separate google account on your phone and you don't want there to be any sort of visual indication of that, then you can have that account be attached to the private space. You can hide that private space from view entirely, or you can have a little zone, that's like you know, tap this to access it. I mean, it's got a lot of customizability to it. I haven't played around with it specifically yet, and also it's kind of one of those things where it's like okay, well, if I had that like, well, what would I use it for? I don't even know that I have any real reason to use it, but I can imagine there are a lot of reasons why someone might want to, you know, hide their activity or hide that particular app or whatever the case may be, within the private space.

This gives them a way to do that, and this is one of those features that like has appeared on a lot of other OEMs, which often this is how Google works is, you know, companies like Samsung and OnePlus and whatever. They implement these features. And I don't know if it's Google, like reading them going, oh okay, that's actually a good idea. Or if Google, you know, kind of plays the Apple card and they're like you know what, we're going to wait until the time's right and we're going to do it our way. Whatever the case may be, we've seen it before, but now Google's kind of bringing it into Android proper, so OEMs don't have to spin up their own version of this.

0:41:53 - Mikah Sargent
Got it. We're going to take a quick break and then, when we come back, I'm going to ask Jason some questions about foldables, because, yes, android runs on many a foldable. In fact, if you've got a foldable, it's probably running.

0:42:07 - Jason Howell
Android. It's probably Android, yeah.

0:42:09 - Mikah Sargent
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All right, we are back from the break and we are joined by Jason Howell of TechSploder, who's giving us a rundown on what's going on in the Android world. I wanted to ask there have been a few improvements for foldables and tablets in this release of Android, android 15. Tell us a little bit about these updates and then maybe you could give me your sort of rating, because I've heard people complain about Android's lackluster support of the foldables that are there, or maybe it just doesn't quite work how they expected. Do you think these updates are going to help combat that narrative?

0:44:45 - Jason Howell
Yeah, so first of all, a couple of the updates that they're rolling out here, and obviously Google has skin in the game right. They've got the Pixel Pro Fold 2 and the Pixel Fold before it. It's always hard with the names, so I think Google is a little more motivated now than they were before. It's hard to know whether the snake's eating its tail or the tail is eating the snake, because did Google put out its foldable for that reason? Or did they do the features and they happened to serve the foldable? I don't know, but it doesn't matter. Persistent taskbar is one of the features. So essentially this is a taskbar that you can pin down to the bottom of the screen instead of it going away or hiding, which essentially kind of mirrors or mimics what you might get if you were on a laptop, essentially, and when you've got that larger screen, you fold out to that larger screen. Being able to have that taskbar down there that you can pin there just improves the multitasking kind of capabilities, which is something that foldables are really good at. App pairs, which is essentially pairing two apps side by side, I think maybe you can even pair three possibly, although that wouldn't be a pair. That would be more, but I know on other OEMs you can do more than that. So I'd be surprised if Google doesn't have that now, if they don't have that eventually. Because when you're talking about that large screen real estate, sure you can half it, but then you can also kind of half the half and, depending on the app that you're throwing in there, it becomes really usable Again. Going back to multitasking and being able to say I use these two apps together all the time. Why do I have to set them up every time? I just want to hit that button and have it open.

Cover screen optimization is another criticism that people have levied against smartphones. In the foldable realm and with Android is essentially like that interplay between what happens on the cover screen and what happens on the inside. If you're doing something on the cover screen and then you open up to the inside, does it scale that experience to the inner larger screen? Continuity between those screens Does it do that gracefully? And also, is there better support, or adequate support, for developers who want to scale their apps to fit the smaller cover screen, because they're not always the form or the shape of a normal smartphone. Sometimes if you're going to a flip size, then the cover screen is like a little square, it's like a tiny little rectangle. And your apps? How do you make sure that the developers can develop for that screen? Edge-to-edge app support is another one which kind of makes for a more immersive experience. I think.

As far as your question, you know, as far as lackluster support for foldables, I think Google is learning and addressing these.

Finally, you know I think that has been a criticism Foldables are not new anymore. They kind of seem it's easy to think of them as this like new thing, but they've been around for five, six years now and, of course, samsung has been really leading the charge on that, I think as far as the big manufacturers are concerned. But Samsung has the resources to build around their needs as needed and they were really ahead of the game when it comes to what Google builds into Android. And so, kind of touching back on what I was talking about earlier, google kind of recognizing the scene and recognizing where they need to focus in order to kind of catch up or in order to kind of support these things on a platform level so that other OEMs don't have to do it, and I personally I think Google's doing a much better job of that I think they're kind of catching up and getting to the point to where it's like all right, all right. It feels like you care a lot more. Like I said, they got skin in the game, so they better care.

0:48:11 - Mikah Sargent
Absolutely. And then I'll ask are there any other features that you're excited about? For me, I was pretty pumped to see that the weather app is adding a pollen tracker. Always the weather app. Always the weather app, Not just you. Micah, everybody loves a good weather app update. Oh, that's funny.

0:48:26 - Jason Howell
Yeah, it's a thing on Android, faithful. We talk about that all the time. People get nuts about weather app updates and it does look good. I got to say the new weather app on Android looks great. Predictive back animations is kind of a boring ish thing to refer to, but essentially what it means is if I'm in an app and I'm looking at it and I go to swipe out of that app to go to the home screen or go to a different app in the multitasking way, it essentially, before I complete that action, it kind of gives me a hint of where I'm going in the background, so it lets the app that I'm switching to peek through and it just gives you a little bit of confidence that the OS is doing what you expect it to do, versus like doing the action and then, oh, I'm in this app. Why, why did I go there? That's a little quality of life thing, I think.

The thing I'm most excited about though like I really legitimately can't wait for this is the home controls screensaver, which essentially is a screensaver.

So you know, yawn, it's kind of boring, but essentially takes the home controls that we've seen on like nest hub devices. You maybe you have the Nest Hub in your kitchen and you pull up the home controls and you turn on the lights in the living room based on the control deck that you have there. This is a screensaver that integrates all that. So when your phone or your tablet goes into screensaver mode, it's like an active screensaver mode, and this does include, my understanding, the pass-through of cameras like smart cameras that you have. So part of your screensaver is like whatever the last thing is your doorbell camera showed or the live view of your doorbell. I want to play around with that to know to what degree that is, because that's kind of nutso. That would be really cool if it was like a passing through the video to my screensaver. It also sounds really resource intensive, so I'd be surprised if it works exactly like that, but I'm really curious to play with it.

0:50:17 - Mikah Sargent
And then last, I'll just ask you this is, I know, a tough question when should people expect to see Android 15 hit their device? Maybe is there a good place to check for update availability.

0:50:28 - Jason Howell
I mean duck and cover on this one, because it's never easy and it's never obvious. I mean the only way that I know that I do regularly. Maybe there is a general receptacle to a place that collects this information, and undoubtedly there is, but I just go online and I'm like I got this phone. When am I getting Android 15? Because some of the manufacturers have made those statements as far as when to expect it. Oneplus is announcing the rollout for next week. Obviously, if you have a Pixel phone, you're getting it right now. I have it.

If you have a Samsung phone like this is actually kind of interesting. In this day and age, year 2024, samsung S24 isn't going to get it until next year, early next year, which is a total bummer. I would think that they'd be moving that up a little bit closer. I mean, the fact is that Android is filled with device manufacturers and companies of all different stripes and they've got their teams working on things like this to get it up and running and they're not all synced up and they're not going to be. So you could get it next week if you're on OnePlus. You could get it next year if you're on Samsung.

It sounds kind of backwards actually when I say it like that, but it's a bummer yeah.

0:51:37 - Mikah Sargent
All right, jason, I want to thank you for taking some time to join us today. Where are the places that people should be going to follow along with what you're doing?

0:51:46 - Jason Howell
Oh, the places. Well, you know this is about Android, so I'll say Android faithful, androidfaithfulcom, where we're doing the podcast Me, Ron Richards, WinTWiT Dao and Michelle Roman. We're also providing a lot of written content for the website, so go to androidfaithfulcom for that. And then, if you want to follow me, I'm doing most of my stuff on my YouTube channel, youtubecom. Slash at tech sploder. While one word.

0:52:08 - Mikah Sargent
Beautiful. Thank you so much, Jason.

0:52:10 - Jason Howell
Thank you, Mikah, so good to see you.

0:52:11 - Mikah Sargent
Good to see you, too. Have a good day. Bye, Bye-bye, All right, we have one little break left before we come in with our next interview. This time, somebody's gone hands-on with new devices from Amazon. Before we get there, though, one more sponsor.

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All right, we are back from the break and I'm very excited for our next guest from CNET. It's David Carnoy, who's joining us to talk about his hands-on experience with Amazon's new Kindles. Welcome to the show, David.

So you did get the opportunity to check out, at least for a brief period, the four new Kindle models. Before we even get into the details, I kind of was curious which one stood out to you the most and why did it stand out?

0:54:30 - David Carnoy
Well, I think everyone's talking about the color one. It's called the Color Soft, which is a little bit weird name for a product, but maybe it's because the colors are a little bit muted compared to, like an LCD screen. But so that's really the brand brand new Kindle in terms of. They've never done a color one before. So Kobo has some color e-readers, but this is the first color Kindle, so that's the one that kind of is getting the most attention. The other ones are upgrade to the, the paper white, which may be the most popular model, and then the entry-level model got also a little bit of an upgrade, and and then the scribe, which is the tablet one which comes with the stylus. That also got a little bit of an upgrade, and some AI features which apparently are also coming to the, to the original scribe, to interesting.

0:55:25 - Mikah Sargent
Now the article does mention that the new entry level Kindle and the paperwhite models have seen a slight price increase. How significant is that change, do you think, for consumers, and is the price increase justified by the changes, as far as you see it, in these devices?

0:55:46 - David Carnoy
Well, I mean, I just think, like every time now Amazon seems to do a device upgrade, it usually costs $10 more for every, whether it's fire, tablets, whatever. You know, they chalk it up to inflation. And you know, I think, I think they're pretty good about. You know what they can produce these things for. They're not necessarily price gouging people on them, uh, because, after all, they're trying to make money on the content, um, so they want to, you know, put them at the most affordable prices. And yeah, I mean, I think you know a lot of people obviously know that there's the list price on it on these devices, but then amazon puts them on sale during prime day or, you know, we'll certainly see around black Friday. It's unclear, the scribe took longer to go on sale, but you know, generally the, the entry level one, will be like 30, $30, $40 cheaper or something like that. You know, so it's. You know, the, the, the entry level one, used to call you. You could even get it for, I think, 50, 60 bucks, and so you know, hopefully we'll see those kind of sales going forward. So it's hard to say what the actual price for these will be, but it is still. You know, it's still a little bit expensive for a dedicated e-reader device, especially the color Kindle.

The ColorSoft is $280. And it only comes. What's kind of weird is the paperwhite comes in a standard version with 16 gigabytes of storage for starts at $160. But then there's a signature edition that has 30 gigabytes of storage and has wireless charging. It also has a little sensor on the um that essentially auto adjusts the, the lighting for you depending on your environment, and then so the color one only comes in that signature edition. So it's 32 gigabytes of storage and the wireless charging. So it's kind of already uh, built in that it's going to be.

Uh, you know the, the higher end version, that I don't know if they'll do a entry-level model that someday and I said I assume eventually the prices for the color ones will will come now, but uh, for now, you know who knows how hard these things are for them to produce and I think they're just, you know they're putting it at 280 bucks. If someone really wants one of the color ones, they'll, they'll go buy it. And it's really for the hardcore, these hardcore people who say like I've always been waiting for a color candle yeah, I mean.

0:58:16 - Mikah Sargent
So let's talk about the, the color soft. Um, obviously, in comparison to a tablet that has an oled display or an lcd display, it's going to be different. But, um, what kind of content do you think kind of benefits the most from this feature? Like, why would someone choose to go the Kindle and ColorSoft route over a more traditional tablet that still sort of costs more money, but the prices are getting pretty close there.

0:58:49 - David Carnoy
Yeah, I mean, I think I mean, you know, for cover art and stuff like that. It brings it to life more obviously. And then it's really just kind of graphic novels and comic books. It's a little small, you know, it's a little small for all this stuff. You know, it's only a seven inch diagonal screen, so it's not like the large scribe which would probably be the best thing to look at a comic book on or a graphic novel. But you know, and then they have, you know they were showing books, like you know, lonely Planet books that have maps and some photos in them. You know travel books that you know.

Again, it's not. It does appear to down res, um, when you do the color from uh, 300 ppi to 150 ppi, so it isn't quite as sharp when you um are in in the color and then it defaults. You know, it knows, I think it knows when you're doing monochrome content versus color content. So, so, anyway, so I think, yeah, it's, it's unclear, um, but people, um, people have been asking for it and wanted. I've always wondered, like, why can't this be in color? Why has it been monochrome for so many years? I mean, I think the uh, the uh original Kindle came out like something like 17 years ago, so wow, 17 years of waiting to get it's finally here.

1:00:13 - Mikah Sargent
I think it was very clever of them to call it the color soft, just to, as you said, kind of um, get you prepared for for what the, the resolution, is able to do at this point. Now, outside of the, the color version, um, the kindle paper, white you you mentioned some of the things there. What are the upgrades to this over the last version? If somebody had the last edition of Paperwhite, is this one that would be worth the upgrade.

1:00:39 - David Carnoy
Yeah, I mean Amazon was making a big deal about that at the presentation, kind of going, like you know, this is the favorite device of Kindle users and it's really hard to get them to upgrade it. But we think we've done it with this one. I don't know, I mean it definitely feels zippier. They say the page turns are 25% faster, but the performance it's like 20% faster overall, so it feels more responsive. I actually have it, you know, I have it here. I have. I got the Diary of a Wimpy Kid.

1:01:10 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, diary of a Wimpy Kid.

1:01:11 - David Carnoy
Yeah, oh, nice I got the diary. Diary of a wimpy kid. Oh, diary of a wimpy kid. Yeah, so some graphics, but it's definitely and it's also the screen. The previous version had a 6.8 inch screen so they reduced the bezels a little bit, uh, and it's now seven inches, so it's a it's a little bit bigger, a bit a bit bigger screen, bigger swinging in a same size chassis. It weighs, I think, I think, six grams more. This, this version, it's a little bit thinner.

Battery life is, you know, three months, you know, with moderate usage, I guess. So you know again, these, you know, with these E readers, it is a, a big, it is actually a substantial change for, um, one of these, one of these e-readers which tend to be very, feel, very incremental, because e-ink, which these, these all have, is an inherently sluggish technology compared to lcd, you know, or these oled screens. So, um, so it's already a little bit slow. So, anything, they're trying to eke out just a little bit more speed with all these things to make them feel more responsive. So I mean, I think that's, you know, maybe you pass on that old paper white to your friend or sell it to someone else and then take the money and put it towards this new one. And I think you know people who are are, you know people have become kind of hardcore about their Kindles, you know they're. I mean some people. You know people get really upset like they don't have you know page turn buttons on them. They don't have, you know they.

1:02:44 - Mikah Sargent
I wanted a new, always very particular.

1:02:46 - David Carnoy
Yeah, I want a new Oasis, and you know. So I'm just looking at like our youtube video has all these comments on it. So you know you're, you can see, you know people, you know they don't. They're not a lot of them really don't.

It's one of these technologies where you're reading a book on it. If you're just reading books on it, it's not that big a deal to get a little bit faster page turns, and you know it does it. It is nice to feel more responsive, just because, again, you want it to be more like your phone or a tablet, and it's not quite there, I mean, at least in terms of responsibility. People buy these because they don't want to be distracted by right while they're reading, and you know it's big it. You know Amazon also talk a lot about how, like millennials and Gen Zers are picking up these things, which is, you know, a little bit surprising that they they claim that they had the best sales ever for the Kindle in the last year, so that is surprising. That was also, you know a little bit. But you know our YouTube video did a lot better than I thought it would, so maybe there's some truth to it.

1:03:56 - Mikah Sargent
Maybe was going to get some features that could maybe convince first-gen Kindle Scribe users to upgrade, but then I heard you say earlier that those AI enhancements might be coming to the first gen of Kindle Scribe, so tell us a little bit about that.

1:04:23 - David Carnoy
I initially asked the PR people that were there. I was like hey, are the original Scribes going to get these features too? Because it didn't seem necessarily dependent on processor speed or anything. And they were like, no, we don't think so, but let's check on that. And they came back and were like yeah, actually they are going to get it, I don't know when, and I think the changes were more around the idea that they appear to have changed the layer on top of the screen to make it seem more paper-like.

When you use the new, there's a new stylus. It doesn't have any batteries, but it's got apparently a new tip on it. The weight is better. It feels't have any batteries, but it's got apparently a new tip on it. The weight is better. It feels more like way better. And so when you're writing on the screen, it feels more like you're writing on a piece of paper and then there's an eraser on the back of it that feels like a pencil eraser more. That's nice. And so people they were talking about it, how people you know will erase something on the screen and then like, feel like they have to brush away the eraser marks, but you don't. So that's how real it is, so that I, you know they're going for for that. I mean, these are. You know that that the scroll it's is also gone up in price. It was, I think, $380 for the original, Now it's up to $400. So, you know, again, these are a little bit more of a niche device.

Someone who, you know, not only wants a big Kindle for reading, you know, and maybe marking up PDFs and stuff like that, but it's also, you know, the biggest feature on these things is the note taking. Right, you know, and you know there's some debate over, you know, heavy note takers. They have a new feature that's going to. You know you have pages of notes and it'll the AI features will condense your notes into kind of a bulleted list that you could then present to people. And then there's, you know, you can take your handwriting and clean it up and make it look legible. Oh, okay, you know, just you hit a button and then, you know, then the biggest complaint people had about kind of the scribe was, you know you couldn't write on a Kindle book you bought and mark it up like you would like, regularly. You know people were like that's my complaint.

1:07:02 - Mikah Sargent
I have the.

1:07:03 - David Carnoy
The remarkable stuff. And you know people want that kind of like PDF but it's it's hard to take that book. That, you know, is the DRM and all this you know. So basically what Amazon has done is kind of made that you can start writing a note on the page of the book and then a box will pop up and then you can write in that box and it attaches to that little section of the text and then you can also create a thing where you can write in the margin. So it's you're not marking up the text exactly, but it's basically storing your comments um, within, within the text and then you can pop them up and see what all those comments are. So it's made some improvements there. That may or may not satisfy people, but I think there is definitely some advancement in that department.

1:07:59 - Mikah Sargent
Definitely. Yeah, that's good to know. Honestly, I was excited whenever you said the thing about the AI coming, because I do have that first gen Kindle Scribe and I thought, oh man, I'm going to miss out on some of these, these new features, in particular this, you know, um yeah, hopefully that would, hopefully the relay is accurate and you, you will eventually get that software update.

1:08:20 - David Carnoy
I mean a lot of these things. It's, you know they'll, they'll. Amazon will say like I always say like, are these speed gains or these performance gains? Are they, um, is it a hardware update that is getting there, or software update? And they'll usually say a combination. So they have this new, like on both the paperwhite and the color version, the color soft. They have this new oxide backplane and some new technology. That's, you know, supposed to. You know not, you know not only help with the contrast, which is definitely seems a little bit better on the new paperwhite. It just kind of the blacks pop a little bit more, so the text is a little bit easier to read. So there's just, you know, again, incremental upgrades. It feels like it's a. You know, the paperwhite came out in 2021. This is not super fast moving technology, never has been. Some people have much older kindles that they're quite satisfied with. But, um, you know, it is nice that amazon has turned over the, the entire line yeah, yeah, that was a cool thing to see the kind of full sweep.

1:09:30 - Mikah Sargent
um, david, I want to thank you so much for taking some time to join us today. After going hands-on with these devices, of course, folks can head over to cnetcom to check out the work that you're doing. Is there any place they can go to follow along with you online to keep up?

1:09:43 - David Carnoy
I'm David Carnoy at TwitterX, but that's my main, and you can find me on Instagram. It's also D-Carnoy and it's C-A-R-N-O-Y for those.

1:09:58 - Mikah Sargent
All of the listeners.

Thank you, David so much for your time. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me All righty folks. That brings us to the end of this episode of Tech News Weekly. All that's left is to remind you that the show publishes every Thursday at twit.tv/tnw. That is where you go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats. Also, remind you about Club TWiT at twit.tv/clubtwit.

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