MacBreak Weekly Episode 822 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Alex Lindsay's here, Andy Ihnatko, and back from his trip to Cupertino Rene Ritchie, you'll share some of the things he gleaned last week at WWDC looks like you'll be able to order your first M2 device on Friday. We'll give you the deeds on that, and we'll talk about the iPad and iPad OS and what Apple's plans really mean? It's all coming up next. A MacBreak Weekly.

New Speaker (00:00:27):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:38):
This is MacBreak Weekly episode 822 recorded Tuesday, June 14th, 2022. The cheese ball progress bar MacBreak Weekly is brought to you by collide. Get end point management that puts the user first visit collide.com/mac break. To learn more and activate a free 14 day trial today. No credit card required. And by Melissa poor data quality can cost organizations an average of 15 million every year. Make sure your customer contact data is up to date gets started today with 1000 records, clean free at melissa.com/twit and by new Relic, the next 9:00 PM call is just waiting to happen. So get new Relic before it does, and you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and 100 gigabytes of data free per month. Forever. No credit card required. Sign up at new relic.com/mac break. It's time for MacBreak Weekly. The show we cover the latest news from apple. Rene Ritchie has returned bearing gifts for all of us. A 13 inch MacBook pro Rene. That's really two kind of you, you are

Rene Ritchie (00:01:51):
Absolutely welcome. And I threw in a midnight, you know, nice indigo.

Leo Laporte (00:01:55):
Those of you. Yeah. Mic has already announced to me <laugh> that he will be ordering the midnight MacBook air on my, on my card. And I said, go ahead. Cause I want, see it. You, you said

Rene Ritchie (00:02:08):
The engines. Micah can do a lot with that.

Leo Laporte (00:02:09):
Yeah, no, I'll I'll I'll be good. News is Rene was on TWI. So I get all my personal questions answered already. <Laugh> but we'll get your questions answered just a bit, Annie. And NACO also here. WG, BH Boston. Hello, Andrew.

Rene Ritchie (00:02:22):
Hello? Yeah. Normally I prepare for Mac break by looking at the show doc, making sure if there's any story that I'm not familiar with and I'm up to date checking like up to the minute news, see if there's anything breaking. But the first week after WWDC, when Rene comes back in, I prepare by buying a, a container of plant Bruce cheese balls. Cause I know that I'm gonna be spending like the first half hour just, oh look,

Leo Laporte (00:02:45):
You have cheese balls, which is very important. He

Rene Ritchie (00:02:47):
Cheese balls. I'm just, I'm just, that's what he's

Leo Laporte (00:02:50):
Saying. And that's why you're wearing a towel on your neck is says just I'm just here to listen because if cheese ball fall out, is that the <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:02:57):
No, I put the troll on. I realized that you know, gray on gray is a little bit doer in something. Oh

Leo Laporte (00:03:03):
No, I like it. No, that's

Rene Ritchie (00:03:04):
Good. But you, you you're familiar with like cheese, like using cheese snacks for this

Leo Laporte (00:03:08):
Is the first I've seen and frankly I've oh, I've I've been meaning to ask you cuz I don't know how, how planners cheese balls compared to the original Cheetos?

Rene Ritchie (00:03:20):
Well consistency of sparity is one. Yes. They're orange, but not frighteningly orange. Okay. they, they come in, they come in this 10, so you don't have to like reach.

Leo Laporte (00:03:29):
Yeah. Exact maybe handle will be down there tin. I mean the tin must weigh ounce. There's not, there's nothing in that. Yes,

Rene Ritchie (00:03:35):
But they'll they also, they also, they also protect like the, the, the balls of cheese. These are, these are only puffed air. The structural integrity is not much <laugh> okay. But I'm, I'm surprised, especially someone who spends some time, there's a comic strip that introduced me to this idea of it's just a comic strip of someone saying, say, wow, you're eating ch CHS with chopstick. Yeah. It keeps all that cheese dust, the crap off my fingers. And then the last panel is just modern Prometheus hailed as genius

Leo Laporte (00:03:59):
Headline. <Laugh> actually many, many years ago, more than 20 years ago on tech TV. I had a producer who said she had invented Cheeto gloves for the eating of Cheetos. But I think the chopsticks is actually better because your hands are uncut

Rene Ritchie (00:04:13):
Sticks are great. Yeah. The other can I, can I also, can I also say finally the final argument is that it also helps to slow me down. Yes. As opposed to like handful after handful, these, these delicious car crunchy every single yeah. Every single button in my, in my head being pushed for like truthfully eating pleasure.

Leo Laporte (00:04:28):
I look at that. Can I go, well, that's not enough. <Laugh> that's gonna last 30 seconds.

Rene Ritchie (00:04:33):
That's yeah. It's it also, well, see also that's the other thing with a bag, like a crumple. So you don't know how much you have left. You can really see the progress bar as you eat. And so this is why like this tin has like lasted me like two or three days. Whereas a bag of like jacks would cost would last about half a movie.

Leo Laporte (00:04:50):
Andy has invented the cheeseball progress bar. Thank you very much. The hail, the second modern Prometheus.

Rene Ritchie (00:04:56):
I'm just, I just wanna leave a impression. I just wanna contribute to society before

Leo Laporte (00:05:00):
You

Rene Ritchie (00:05:00):
Have

Leo Laporte (00:05:00):
You have I leave? You can die. Happy also with us, of course, from office hours dot globally. <Laugh> Alex Lindsay. Hello, Alex. We were talking before the show and I'm very curious you on office hours and your cover coverage of the what is it? The syno Sy syno gear, syno gear conference. Yeah. Duplicated this famous Craig Fede run from WW DC. Let me just show the, the run cuz what I want you to do. I, I have it. I have it here. I can break it down for you. Cause you said you see, I said, well, one thing to do the run. I could do that with slow motion and fast motion. But you said no, that's E that this is harder than this elevator, which I thought would be the hardest. So show us the run here. What's going on. So,

Rene Ritchie (00:05:49):
So here, here we

Leo Laporte (00:05:50):
Go. He's gonna, oops. So he's in the the top deck of the Steve jobs theater. Is that right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well

Alex Lindsay (00:05:56):
He's in, I don't know where that is. That's not, where

Leo Laporte (00:05:58):
Is that Rene? Do you know where that is? The garden behind him. It's beautiful. Is that his corner office? Atrium rooms. Yeah. There's no corner offices in the round circle. Oh yeah. That's right. So he's standing in front of the Mac quilt. Woo.

Alex Lindsay (00:06:10):
So this is, he that's just runs. That's just

Leo Laporte (00:06:12):
Fast forward, right?

Alex Lindsay (00:06:14):
It's probably a little bit more than that. That if you, if you look at it, it's they're, they're, they're, they're running, but he's, they're definitely doing some effects there. You can see the, oh

Leo Laporte (00:06:23):
Yeah. There's a blur.

Alex Lindsay (00:06:24):
Yeah. It's not just a blur. It's giving that kind of, you can see it behind him. Yeah. Like that wouldn't that, that he's like almost like a, a little smoke there're giving something that he's

Leo Laporte (00:06:32):
Trails. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:06:33):
So then he's going there. Now the thing about this is that they, they added, this is so, so

Leo Laporte (00:06:41):
This first of all, you have to admire his stoicism <laugh>

Alex Lindsay (00:06:44):
Yeah, exactly. So this is vector motion blur. This is not real motion blur. So that's, that's part of it. I mean, they're, they're, they're doing something there to it, the process he's running, I think he's running on a treadmill and they're moving, that's a CG background because look at how, when he sharpens look at how quickly that sharpens that happen, right? Yeah. Is he CG Alex and then <laugh> no, no don't yeah. He's not CG. He's buff.

Leo Laporte (00:07:06):
I gotta tell you he's

Alex Lindsay (00:07:07):
Been lifted. He's doing well. So, but, but as he's running, obviously his highlights on his on either side don't change. Ah, so that he's, he's not moving.

Leo Laporte (00:07:15):
He's not going anywhere.

Alex Lindsay (00:07:16):
He's not going anywhere. Cause the lights he's you're. Right, exactly. So then they start and then what they do, but it makes it much easier to shoot this shot. Right? Sure. Because now they only have to, he's running on, he's running on a treadmill in slow motion and then they, they start to animate the background. So they just start pushing that, that 3d scene behind him. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:07:33):
There's some, there's some motion. There's some motion blurred in the background.

Alex Lindsay (00:07:37):
Yeah. But the motion, the motion in the background is, and then you see how they, then they add that effect.

Leo Laporte (00:07:41):
They transition. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:07:43):
That's all CGI. And they put 'em in a hallway that doesn't exist. And then but that's a, that's like a, this is like, this is like an effect. It almost looks like the Hobbit, you know, when he puts the ring on it's, you know, it's not real motion bro, which

Leo Laporte (00:07:56):
We now wanna announce the brand new Craig Frey motion, blur plugin for final flash, the Feder. He was like, last year he was teleporting. Like last year he was teleporting everywhere. And this year he's got a Maglev and flashback. I

Alex Lindsay (00:08:08):
Love it.

Leo Laporte (00:08:09):
Yeah. They made, you know, I think they're smart. They've made him the star of the show, right?

Alex Lindsay (00:08:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:08:15):
He's, he's got charisma. He's got personality. He's not, he's not gonna, he, he can explain all this. The, the problem with, with Craig's part of the show is that it's always, this feature dump of here is like all the stuff in I, in iOS and in Macs B and unless, you know, somebody who can, you could really ride that speed bike and handle every single corner and get us through it. Need personality to get us through it. You can't just simply say, now look at the response of the frequency, like the heat registers in C you know, that's I

Leo Laporte (00:08:43):
Prefer for 10 minutes as a rest stop, not a speed bump, but okay. I get your point. No,

Rene Ritchie (00:08:48):
No, I, I, I didn't say speed bump. I, but

Leo Laporte (00:08:50):
<Laugh> he's he's he got to

Rene Ritchie (00:08:52):
He's you gotta enjoy looking at him. You gotta enjoy his attitude and he's got to bring up the energy and the joy with which he presents is pretty great.

Leo Laporte (00:09:00):
Well, the big news today is that apple has given us a date and it's Friday that you can order the M2 MacBook pro not the MacBook air 9:00 AM, Friday 9:00 AM. Yeah. So 

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:17):
The old model with a new chip.

Leo Laporte (00:09:19):
Yeah. That's because they didn't have to redesign it at all. Right. So they just, yeah, yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:23):
Yeah. They just wanted people who would still buy it because they still want the fan to be able to do persistent workloads over 20 minutes. And they just didn't want them to still get the M one. They figured they might as well get the latest chip if they're gonna still buy a computer, which is nice. I like that. I think they should always keep the stuff upgraded. Good. Modern.

Leo Laporte (00:09:38):
Yeah. touch bar though. I'm sorry. You know, might as well give us the butterfly in the redesign. Yeah. And I'm sure it won't. So this is the one to get, if you think you're gonna do work, that requires sustained throughput sustained full CPU, but not

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:57):
Enough for an actual Mac pro that's a weird sort of like the little sliver that this exists in is that the MacBook air isn't quite enough for you because you've got enough stuff that just last, maybe 30 minutes, but also you don't wanna carry a 14 inch MacBook pro around with you, which would give you way more capabilities. And also you don't care about the X reports or the ability to run more than one external display. And like, I, I know that's not nothing. I know it's not nobody, but it just, it feels, and I know feels over fax is the worst thing, but that seems like a very narrow customer. What's the second, most popular laptop. So what do I know? Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:10:28):
Really? It almost, I bought one when the M one came out and I, Lisa has it now when I got the MacBook pro 14 inch, but keeper, I'm not ch honestly not tempted this time. Am I right? Not to be tempted. Is this faster than my M one 14 inch MacBook pro?

Andy Ihnatko (00:10:44):
No, maybe marginally single core, single core.

Leo Laporte (00:10:48):
Do we know what the, so the single core clock speed is faster or just the, the micro code is faster, is more

Andy Ihnatko (00:10:53):
Efficient. No, the clock. So you've got, you've got uplift just because you have the N five P process generation that gives you 5%. It's by 5% frequency boost a 15 already had that. So this might be a little bit higher than that. So up to about 10%, and then the cores have new micro architecture. They went from ice storm and firestorm to blizzard and avalanche. And so the E CORs are about 30% faster, which is a pretty big deal because it means they can do more work and you don't have to engage the performance cores. So those are massively faster. And then the PCOS, because a lot of their gains are through cash. It varies from about 3% to about 25%, depending on the latency of the workload you're doing, they have, they're all told, like they said 18%, like uplift on

Leo Laporte (00:11:34):
The they've given it more cash. That's that's always a good thing, right? This is

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:38):
The whole system has more cash. The PCOS, a performance course have individually more

Leo Laporte (00:11:43):
Cash.

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:43):
Okay. And the crazy thing to me is that they did all that and made it more efficient than M one. So like, you could, they can put all this extra, like it's got more transistors. It's like 25% bigger. And it still has the same battery life, which like, I think like, it's, it's easy. People forget this. Like a lot of times people complain that performance isn't higher performance is really easy. All you have to do is increase voltage. You, you, they could make like the fastest ships in the world tomorrow. If all you wanted to do was increase voltage. Didn't care about battery life or performance off power, or the size of the enclosure, the noise of the fan, any of that, but to increase performance and increase efficiency is really, really hard. So I, I, I am liking the M2 quite a lot. Now I

Leo Laporte (00:12:18):
Would think more than I thought it would. That that's what an a Mac pro though might do is say, okay, TPU, be damned full, full speed ahead.

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:26):
Four dies. I mean, that's gonna be a lot of power, no matter how it's, it'll be less power than, than, than an Nvidia 30, 90, but it'll be a huge amount of power from apple,

Leo Laporte (00:12:34):
Right? 20 billion transistors 20, as you said, 25%, more and 20 hours of a battery life.

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:45):
And LPDR five. So you have much higher memory bandwidth, and you also have access to

Leo Laporte (00:12:49):
R five, the D R five did arrive in the Mac studios. Didn't it? I think they have,

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:53):
It came with the Mac pros and the Mac studios, but like, that's, that's the thing. I think people like they look at the M one and they just think, oh, the other ones were extra M ones. And now we know what M2 is. We know what M2 pro and, and max will be, but apple didn't just scale out the cores. Like the M2 added the rendering, sorry. The M one pro added the rendering engine. It added LP, DDR five. It added very specific things that made it way better than just a bigger M one. Right? So I'm super interested to see how M FM2 gets the same sort of like maybe some, a 16 IP in there somewhere. Maybe another feature, another specific Silicon block we haven't thought about yet. I'm excited. Leah, who

Leo Laporte (00:13:26):
Should order on Friday, somebody with an Intel,

Andy Ihnatko (00:13:30):
People were going to buy someone who was going to buy the because of cost and size, someone who was going to buy the M one MacBook pro anyway, decided for whatever reason, the M the M2 air isn't enough for them. And they're just gonna get the extra cha, like you're buying the same laptop you're gonna buy last week. You're just getting the better chip.

Leo Laporte (00:13:46):
If you want a touch bar. <Laugh> yes. That would be a reason if you want sustained throughput greater than the MacBook air, in other words was 20 minutes. The cutoff, if you're gonna keep

Andy Ihnatko (00:13:58):
20 minutes is about the cutoff.

Leo Laporte (00:13:59):
If you're gonna keep that processor maxed for more than 20 minutes, because it has a fan you're gonna want

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:04):
Firsty workloads is no different, but if a sustained workloads over 20 minutes, then yeah, you'll want

Leo Laporte (00:14:07):
The fan, the fan is this, or the, what they call active cooling. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get that. Let's get that straight. So they're not, I mean, I wonder if they were, if they're shipping this little early, remember they said it was gonna be next month, the preorders would begin because they know this is not gonna, the people are, why, why are they doing this early?

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:25):
It's in stock? Like the

Leo Laporte (00:14:27):
Part it's in stock, they have, they made it, they can make it much move it. Yeah. There's

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:30):
Nothing new they're waiting for.

Leo Laporte (00:14:31):
Okay. Got

Alex Lindsay (00:14:32):
It. I mean, you also have take

Leo Laporte (00:14:33):
The money

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:33):
For people we're handing to.

Alex Lindsay (00:14:34):
Yes. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and you, you know, you're near the end of the quarter, so you might as well oh, that true for

Leo Laporte (00:14:39):
Another week, June 30th. Is it? Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:14:42):
Solid 15 days of orders there. So, yeah. So that's something that you can put in the report.

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:46):
So I did Leo. I have to admit embarrassingly. I did, I did see Johnny SJI. I got to say hello. And I acted like it was Taylor swift.

Leo Laporte (00:14:52):
Yes. Oh no.

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:53):
Embarrasing fanboy moment. Yeah. I don't do that for many people. I feel like John G Andrea, if I'd seen him, I've done that once before and Johnny Saji. I just, yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:15:01):
Me too. Tim cook. Okay. Fine. But Johnny Saji now, Tim.

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:05):
Well, no, Tim cook is per, like, he's wonderful. They're like the weird thing about apple executives is they are exactly like, they are on stage in person like that. That is just how they are. And it's always a little bit unsettling cuz you figure the stage is an act and then they talk to you exactly the same way. But like they're all, they're all super nice and stuff. But like I, I'm a huge Silicon nerd and I see the guy who's like changed the way I think about Silicon and

Leo Laporte (00:15:23):
I

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:23):
Was a little bit, you know, fan boyish,

Leo Laporte (00:15:25):
Don't be fooled. I'm the, I'm the same way in person as I am on the air. And it's all an act. If you, if you, if you knew me you'd hate me or maybe you'd love me. I don't know. Maybe you'll hate me now. <Laugh> I don't know. I

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:37):
Don't know. I play Pokemon go more in real life than I do on, on

Leo Laporte (00:15:40):
Camera. I'm just saying get outta my way. I see a, I, whether there's a new thing, Lisa wants me to get that everybody has, but she doesn't have it yet. I don't know.

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:49):
Lisa and I became became buddy friends. We get to have a special trade next time I see her. Yay.

Leo Laporte (00:15:53):
Special trade time. Yep. That's so special. 

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:58):
Come on, Leo

Leo Laporte (00:15:58):
Jealous, be special friends. I'm jealous. Well, I'm jealous. I'm jealous. I think a, a, a good take from Harry McCracken on fast company, he says apple finally turned all its devices into one big platform last week at WW DC. He calls it the matched set. Yeah. I think that's accurate. I think

Alex Lindsay (00:16:23):
It, yeah, no. I think that it's a lot of the stuff is the, the, the look and feel across all the different platforms is slowly coming together. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, you know, it did feel like they were doing lots of different things. They've been slowly pulling together and it's something that is uniquely apple. It's very hard. You know, nobody else covers that much gamut to be able to pull all these devices that they all feel like they belong together. Yeah. And they can, you know, work

Leo Laporte (00:16:43):
Together universal control and continuity. And now stage manager on the iPad. I think iPad OS is a, is a mass iPad OS. And we, I talked about this last week is the tell. If we finally understand now what apple has planned, why they put off an M one in an iPad a year ago, we were all scratching. Our head. People

Andy Ihnatko (00:17:02):
Are so angry. Like last year they were so angry that apple put an M one into the iPad and didn't give it any M one specific features. So this year Apple's like, fine. We'll give you some M one specific features. And now they are so angry. That they're M one.

Leo Laporte (00:17:14):
Well, most of the people were angry. I bet are people who don't have.

Andy Ihnatko (00:17:18):
Yeah. Last year, the M one people were angry and this year people don't have M one are angry. So like someone's gonna be

Leo Laporte (00:17:22):
Angry or,

Rene Ritchie (00:17:24):
Or, or more particularly people who bought an iPad recently. Like they, if they bought 20, 21 hardware, but they didn't buy the M one variant and they're thinking, well, gee, I spent like $900 for this iPad. This is a defining feature. And my iPad, you feel, as you feel as though there's been like a fence just suddenly dropped between the haves and the have nots and that you don't want to be on the have nots side of that fence.

Leo Laporte (00:17:48):
Apple gave you a statement about the M one, what should we call it? Stage manager gate. I don't know. <Laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (00:17:56):
Yeah. And then, and then Feder, Rigie went to, talked to Matthew pad Reno about,

Leo Laporte (00:17:59):
Yeah. Panza Reno. Got a good, so you get, you got the the PR quote. You wanna read it to us? Do you know it off hand?

Andy Ihnatko (00:18:07):
I don't, I don't have it in front of me.

Leo Laporte (00:18:09):
Oh, I'll have to look up. Let's see. Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie (00:18:12):
<Laugh> but it was a great video. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:18:14):
Watch the video. M one iPad.

Andy Ihnatko (00:18:17):
See, I have to go and research all. I have to talk to engineers. I have to watch WWD. It takes me like three days to make a video and P just goes, yo Craig

Leo Laporte (00:18:24):
You're Craig. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:18:25):
Can you explain this to me? Yeah. I mean, that's what you get. If you're like, if you, if you're on tech, I

Leo Laporte (00:18:29):
Understand it. It was kind of a marketing eing, something about blazingly fast.

Andy Ihnatko (00:18:33):
I think their worry was that people were just concentrating on the Ram and they're saying like, it was just the Ram and well, six gigabytes is close to eight gigabytes and you had, you know, you had the, a, the a 12 Z could run the developer transition kit, even though they had to give a 12 gigabytes of Ram to do that. And Samsung can do decks. You know, even though Samsung phone has eight to 12 gigabytes of Ram and decks is limited to five, like productivity style apps, but it was like a lot of confusion initially. And it's, it's an interesting problem because like, some people are upset. They didn't get the interface. I don't, I don't love the interface, but like some people like it's just new, so they want it, I get it. Other people were upset. They didn't get full screen support, which I think is totally valid.

Andy Ihnatko (00:19:11):
I would love for apple to spin off full screen support for an external display as a separate feature. I think, you know, that that would just make a lot of it's. It's not a big, like very, very few people do that, but the people who do it really want it, that's great. But the memory mat, like the ability to swap pages of memory to Ram is the big deal and a series Silicon just never was never designed for that. Apple doesn't make commodity chips like with Intel, they never know which chip is gonna go into which machine. So they have to support as much as possible in every chip, but apple, like they know that I iOS has no concept of swap. So they never built any of the memory, the, the memory compression or the ultra, the Ultrafast storage controllers, the Ultrafast MB and E SSDs.

Andy Ihnatko (00:19:49):
They never built any of that into previous generations. And now that they have that from the Mac, because the Mac absolutely needed that they're taking advantage of it and selling, like telling Photoshop, okay. You're no longer constrained to four gigabytes of Ram where Jetson will yo you off the operating system. Now you can just page out to disk as if you were a Mac app and that's the transformational thing, but it's only ever existed for the iPad in the M one. And I think that's, it's the most important thing. And the thing they just can't work their way around, which is like Andy said sad for people who bought an Aeries chip.

Rene Ritchie (00:20:20):
It is, it is surprising though, that apple usually is very, very good at communications that they didn't UN that they couldn't have predicted that again, they have put of necessity, but they have put a wall between the haves and havenots that it would've been a good idea to have a white paper or have something on the site, or at least make sure that in the talking points for the for the engineers who speak to people to the press on that day, they say, oh, by the way, here is why there we are not, we're not just being cheered. We're not just trying to, to, to, to tricky, into buying a better iPad. There are actual technical reasons why we didn't, we didn't make this available for other ones. And that would, at least people have people would grumble, but they would smarter people would be able to sort of say, yeah, I mean, you know, but there's there's reason. Do you want nobody to have this feature or do you want to have this feature

Leo Laporte (00:21:05):
Poorly? That's why I cringed a little bit when the first statement which you got Rene stage manager is a fully integrated experience that provides all new windowing experience that is incredibly fast and responsive and allows users to run eight apps simultaneously across iPad and an external display with up to six K revolution resolution. Delivering this experience with the imediacy users expect from iPads touch. First experience requires, and this is what bugged me, large internal memory, incredibly fast storage and flexible display IO, all of which are delivered by M one. It sounded a little bit like a pitch, but it is. I mean, it's a root the, the reason and, and the, the Craig was a little bit more technical, gave the technical explanation that you wanted. And I wanted Andy. He said, in order to, to reach, this is what panino wrote in order to reach that level of responsiveness.

Leo Laporte (00:21:52):
Several facts needed to collide a combination of a lot of Ram and extremely fast IO, virtual memory, virtual memory. So you, in other words, that's the storage we're needed to host multiple apps in the active bucket. Only the M one iPads combine the high D Ram capacity with very high capacity, high performance NAND that allows the virtual memory swap to be super fast. So that's the technical in information, which is in order for stage manager to work, it has to page out into, onto the, the storage, the SSD what's going on. And that needs to be fast enough so that you have a fluid response to

Andy Ihnatko (00:22:29):
Andy's point. I think like, cuz when we talked to PR, like we've talked about this before apple doesn't really have crisis PR like it's just their product PR people handle it and that's it's and they know how to very different thing

Leo Laporte (00:22:38):
And stuff they're selling. Well, no,

Andy Ihnatko (00:22:39):
Their job is very different. Like they, I think, and I don't wanna say it's naive cuz it's not, but they're like, people were so upset last year when we didn't give them anything that really took advantage of the M one, we're gonna give them something that takes advantage of one and they're gonna be so happy. And like, that's like the little box that they've decided that they're in. And then people are like, people aren't happy. What is hap, but last year you said, and I think that that's the, the part they didn't get their heads around in the shouldn't

Leo Laporte (00:23:00):
Have said happy.

Andy Ihnatko (00:23:01):
But the anger from last year would be different than the anger from this year. Different

Leo Laporte (00:23:05):
Customers would be TPO. This happens all the time. There's new hardware there's new capabilities. The new capabilities require the newer hardware. Frankly. Apple is saying, you can do this on a year. Old iPad is better than a lot of companies would just say, and if you want to use it, you'll need to buy a new iPad. So I, I think it's a

Andy Ihnatko (00:23:23):
Little remember, like the iPhone three GS had video recording and people were so angry. It wasn't on the iPhone 3g. That's how, when jail broke it and brought it back and it was 12 frames per second. Yeah. And Apple's like, we can't ship 12 frames per

Leo Laporte (00:23:32):
Second. Yeah. The only people who are angry are people who haven't been around long enough or, or just don't understand how tech works or something. I and I you're right. Annie and somebody who just bought an iPad and it didn't have an M one in it. Although the, the HES have M one S so it'll work on the HES, right?

Alex Lindsay (00:23:49):
Yeah. I mean, it's, I would say it's one of the specific reasons I got the iPad with the M one is I figured I wanna be part of the, the future of, of what's happening. Not the past. We said

Leo Laporte (00:23:56):
That a year ago, we said that,

Alex Lindsay (00:23:58):
Yeah. You just

Leo Laporte (00:23:59):
Knew that. I'm sorry. And we said we were disappointed that there was nothing that took advantage of it. Right,

Alex Lindsay (00:24:04):
Right, right.

Rene Ritchie (00:24:05):
Yeah. But, but like again, history, history of apple I, I I'll I'll make this short, but yeah. One of my apple, my relationship knowledge of apple led to two things. Number one I did buy like the very first iPad pro like first generation. And number one, it meant that even in 2021, it was still working great. It was still totally useful. I still had no complaints about it. It was still a core of my, of my workflows, both inside the house and outside the house. And two, the other thing that knowing about apple meant for me is that when apple came out with an M one version of the iPad, I knew that that was going to be super significant, that I knew that I didn't. I had some inkling of what they were planning to do with an M one inside an iPad. I knew it had nothing to do with running Mac apps on an iPad, but I, I was confident that this would pay off and it was worthwhile to finally replace this five year old iPad that was essentially working just fine for me. And I'm glad. And, and that's, it's been paying off in so many different ways.

Alex Lindsay (00:25:05):
I, and I think the, the part of the problem that apple has is that I bought the first pro the 16 inch or whatever for my kids. They're still using that one quite happily, like nothing happened, like nothing pushed it, that they are missing anything, et cetera. And there just hasn't been enough to really push the, the iPads hard that you feel like you have to upgrade because they do everything pretty well. And so I think that that is the real, the real challenge. And I think finally, I think with the M one, Apple's gonna start pressing down on their own to really push the outer envelope, but they can't, but what, what Apple's not known for and never has been, probably never will be, is backwards compatibility. And if you're buying into the ecosystem, you have to, you always have to kind of take that into

Leo Laporte (00:25:44):
Account. And that's exactly what Craig, this is actually, it's funny. You should say that. Cause that's exactly the quote that I thought was most salient from Craig. When he talked to Pan's Reno, he says, this is the experience we're gonna carry into the future. We didn't want to constrain our design as something lesser we're setting the be benchmark for the future. So they didn't wanna say, oh, let's, let's dumb it down. So it'll can run older iPads. And I think that's appropriate. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:26:07):
Yeah. And for the record, Samsung does have decks. It's great. It's wonderful. It's I, I, I don't have a phone that supports it, but every time I was, I had a Samsung phone on loan and used it. I was very, very impressed with how flexible it makes the phone, but it is nowhere near as ambitious as what apple is doing with M one iPads. This is Dex is simply the Linux that's baked into the phone. They basically added a window manager and a way of managing apps to go to go larger screen. This really is a whole new paradigm and a whole way to integrate the tablet experience and the desktop experience in a way that I don't think I've ever seen before. So more ambitious

Leo Laporte (00:26:43):
Harry says, consider all of these features. This is apple kind of coalescing it's it's, it's, you know, it's full range of products, stage manager, Mac OS, Ventura, and iPad OS 16 IOS's lock screen customizations. And, and Micah noted this considerably inspiration from how watch faces work on apple. Watch. Those are like complications from the watch. It's

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:09):
The

Leo Laporte (00:27:09):
Same code. Yeah. Is it the same code? That's

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:11):
Interesting. So what they did is they created the complications and that's, and then they spun that into widget kit, which they actually made open to developers, which I thought we talked about that on twit, but apple made everything in API this year, which was incredibly exciting for me. No one year wait for them to dog food. It, so like, that's all widget kit now. So it's the same stuff that you're already familiar with building all these things across, watch all the way through iPhone, iPad and, and Mac. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:27:33):
And by the way, yeah, we're gonna repeat some stuff that we talked about on a TWI, but I I'm presuming that not everybody listens to all of our shows

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:41):
<Laugh> yes. Apologies my

Leo Laporte (00:27:42):
Bad that's okay. That, you know, don't, don't apologize for overlapping a little rep repetition. It makes it stick in the brain longer.

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:49):
And that's the, or origin of swift UI too. I mean, a lot of stuff was originally written up for the watch team to be able to quickly make visual interpretation. It's

Leo Laporte (00:27:55):
That interesting

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:55):
Of apps for the watch that were super power efficient. And then Craig saw it and said wipe be stingy. Can we have that everywhere please? Right. And it became, if

Leo Laporte (00:28:03):
I, well, and then the always on feature of the apple watch, which requires a screen that can go down to one hurts one. Yes. Refresh a second now is gonna come. We pretty sure to the iPhone, because the iPhone's gonna have variable refresh rate apple fitness now will be available to people on the phone that don't have the watch. So that's good news. Mailin messages are getting new features that will debut on iPhone, iPad and Mac at the same time, this new free form thing I, which I still think is a stealth kind of something maybe AR tool. I, I can't imagine apple would just do a whiteboard app.

Andy Ihnatko (00:28:43):
Well, again, they pulled everything out like they, before share play was neat, but it was bound and constricted to apps. And now share play is pretty much everywhere. So you can imagine

Leo Laporte (00:28:51):
In messages, we

Andy Ihnatko (00:28:51):
Are playing a game and I'm like, Alex, Leo Andy come play star Trek with me and suddenly we're all in our VR headsets. And it's just a, it's just a little ping that goes out and we're all playing. And then Leo says, stop, stop. The space, time equations are wrong. And he starts whiteboarding. Now we can get past the Keer maneuver. You know, it'll be fantastic. You

Leo Laporte (00:29:07):
Think now no normal people are gonna use whiteboards. <Laugh> shared collaborative

Andy Ihnatko (00:29:12):
White in business

Leo Laporte (00:29:13):
In business. Maybe

Rene Ritchie (00:29:15):
I, I can't wait for collaborative whiteboard whiteboard publishing of like, of covering of, of keynotes and stuff like that. And I've been talking a lot of the boards and a lot of the boards of like comic artists and illustrators I've seen, I love can't wait to get they, they want to just go to the same event and be doing jam pieces on

Leo Laporte (00:29:31):
The same huge canvas. Oh, that's really interesting.

Rene Ritchie (00:29:34):
I'm I'm sure. Cause the great thing about apple users is that they're weirdos in the best possible way. Like they fi they figure out ways to use things that are applicable and relevant and exciting to them. So I really do it's it's not exciting as Microsoft would just say, oh, and for productivity teams, workspace is verticals. Whereas apple just says, here's a big, here's a big white space. Put whatever crap you want on it. Put, invite whoever you want to put their own crap on it and use it as a shared existence. So I, I really think that this is, this is like their first augmented reality. Like metaverse is this is this white space app.

Leo Laporte (00:30:07):
I still think there's and I may be completely off base. It could just be, you know, somebody's 20% time look, I made a, a whiteboard. Okay, let's put it in. But I think there's more to it, especially it, because you can embed objects in it. That is more than just drawings that is video and shared experiences. Yeah. I feel like, imagine, and imagine taking away the whiteboard and having that near augmented reality glasses, those float. Exactly.

Rene Ritchie (00:30:31):
Imagine I'm sorry, Alex, just very, very quickly. That's fine. That imagine being able to place a 3d object and that 3d object not being, Hey, look, here is, here is a dinosaur that we can all gather around and look at and teach about or imagine it's like, no, it's like Minecraft. I can put buildings here. I can put spaces here. This is, I, I agree with you. I agree with you, Leah. I think that this is going to be at least the four cursor to something much, much bigger.

Leo Laporte (00:30:54):
Alex. You agree?

Alex Lindsay (00:30:55):
Yeah. I mean, I, I, I do. I, I think that you're the

Leo Laporte (00:30:58):
AR guy, right? That, so I'm giving you ammunition here.

Alex Lindsay (00:31:01):
Well, I think, you know, when we see U SD Z, you know, dropping in, you know, being dropped into, into this, can you, you're gonna be able to, well, I mean, do they mention

Leo Laporte (00:31:08):
That? I think you could,

Alex Lindsay (00:31:09):
They haven't mentioned that, but I, but I think, you know, but, but the, the main thing is, is the experience. We look a lot like this, where you're sitting here and you're going, you know, look at this 3d object, you know, and I can circle things and go like this and do this, you know, and, and talk about it. And someone else can be talking about that. Like, Hey, can you rotate this around? And you rotate it around like this, this is the clarity, you know, IO thing that we worked on. And but you can sit there and go, you know, this thing is gonna connect over here and then somebody else mentions the antenna and someone else mentions this and how things go through here and

Leo Laporte (00:31:39):
That's VR with the whiteboard, but take away the whiteboard suddenly it's AR

Alex Lindsay (00:31:44):
Yep. Yeah. But I think that it's, but, but you could be, it's very, very useful as 2d experience to it. U S T Z. Yeah. It's super useful on its own. Yeah. And then when you add AR and VR, absolutely. It's more useful, but it, the thing what apple is doing really, really well with a lot of these pieces that are coming together is doing things that are very, very useful in a 2d environment that then can be, you know, slowly expanded into, into the VR world and into the AR world in a way that, you know, so, and it allows them to get all these reps. Now what the problem that, that Facebook and Google have had is that they jump into these things into the deep end and they drown <laugh> right. You know, like, like got good ideas around this Google wave, Google wave. And well,

Leo Laporte (00:32:28):
I mean, to pan wrote a whole book about Google wave minutes before they canceled was time

Alex Lindsay (00:32:33):
Google, Google had Google had a LIDAR on their phone. They had support LIDAR, but not on their own phones. That's yeah. You know, and, and, and the problem that we had was sure we could, we, we were importing these LIDAR Google phones to, to do R and D. And the main thing is, is that, well, how do you get stuff into it? So it becomes hard even for us to get stuff into it when we got into it, it was amazing. Yeah. You know, and there was so many things we could do with it, but they didn't have the entire support ecosystem that was required. Right. For those to instantly take off. And, and I think that what apple is doing is they're building this ecosystem very, very methodically as they work out all the really hard, you know, eight, you know, or six K peri or eight K peri, and how many M one or M2 processes are they gonna need and, and what it's gonna look like and all those other things as they work, all of those things out, which are very, very hard problems that everybody's having trouble with.

Alex Lindsay (00:33:23):
They're building this massive ecosystem, skill sets, tool sets, you know, and, and giving people, giving developers time to work on it. It's, it's a, again, I, I will say that, I think that that's why this is gonna be when it, whenever it happens 20, 23, 20, 24, it's gonna be a big deal because, because there's been years and years and years of, of you know, planning and, and prop, you know, preparing everybody for that next piece. And again, it's not like here's a great tool that you may someday use. It is a great tool today doing what you're doing right now. And eventually it'll just get better.

Leo Laporte (00:33:56):
Yeah. To me, that's the through line of WWC. And it's what Harry McCracken was saying is that we're starting to see the outlines now coming to come into focus. I w when, when they announced freeform, I, I looked, and this is an article from 20, 22 years ago. There are at least seven digital whiteboard solutions for iPad and Mac. So this isn't a new arena. This isn't something not well served. So I have to think there's a reason Apple's doing this, right.

Rene Ritchie (00:34:25):
It, it could also be just because,

Leo Laporte (00:34:27):
Yeah,

Rene Ritchie (00:34:29):
It, it could remember that there was also a time when the iPad doesn't, didn't have a, a file manager app and there was a big market and still is a big market for file management app. It's possible that apple realizes that, okay, there was a big hole in this device in pre stole software. That exactly the shape of a files management app, we need to, we need to patch that hole immediately because without it, we won't be able to do the next thing we want to do.

Leo Laporte (00:34:50):
Yeah. Although, you know, no, one's gonna develop a file manager app for iOS, cuz that's, that's a fools era. You should only apple could do that. Right. I mean

Andy Ihnatko (00:34:58):
The thing that I think that apple struggles with and, well, there's two things. One FaceTime was just left fallow, like for so long, it was not competitive. And they finally, during the, during the lockdowns realized this isn't good enough, we have to improve it. And so for the last two years, three years, we've got an astonishing array of finally upgrades, but is

Leo Laporte (00:35:16):
It FaceTime a non-starter until it's cross-platform I'm sorry. You, you can't zoom if you're only apple,

Andy Ihnatko (00:35:23):
Well mean apple has the affordance of only wanting to serve their customers. Yeah. They, they, they want that to be there, but I think the biggest battle they're fighting is that what does an iPad pro mean? Because for some people, it means I want it to do exactly what my MacBook pro mean. Does, I just want to have an iPad that does it instead, and Apple's been fighting against that. They wanna make an iPad pro. That is, that is for people who don't, aren't served by the Mac pro. So like for architects and UI designers and storyboards and teachers and real estate agents, they wanna create a D a different experience, but there's a very vocal contingent of people who just want it to be their MacBook pro have the exact same apps and experience. And then they can take it around as a TV viewer when they don't have it. And I think things like the whiteboard that doesn't work as well on a Mac, like that's a, that's a pretty unique, large screen, pencil enabled experience. And they wanna lean into that to sort of show people what, what is different, what, why the iPad should still exist basically.

Alex Lindsay (00:36:14):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and the thing is, is that they can, I don't think they have to be zoom. I don't think they have to serve the same market. I think that, I mean, I use lots of things and I use messages for <laugh> certain things, but I, I chat with lots of people on lots of different things. So it's probably probably why I'm not that sensitive to messages being one way or the other. It just is what it is. But it, but it'll, it slows down their ability to innovate if they're slowed down by the other platforms, you know, which is essentially what will happen is the, the platform, the other platforms are pretty far behind and, and they're gonna and so you have to now wait for them, or now persuade them to add the hooks that you need to make that work to have it have the same thing when apple owns the chat function.

Alex Lindsay (00:36:52):
And, and by the way, I, I don't really like FaceTime. <Laugh> like, like I just, it drives me absolutely crazy. So I don't think they've proven that they can do anything well with FaceTime yet. I love messages. I love most of apple what apple does. Facetime's not one of them, all the little bubbles that keep on going back and forth and all the little things that it does drives me a little nutty. And so so I don't think that they're doing that necessarily well, but I know that they can't, they won't be able to take full advantage of a fully immediate rich environment. If they, if they tie themselves down to trying to support other platforms to do what they're doing, they, by owning the hardware, owning the OS and owning the service, they're able to innovate a lot faster right now. I don't think they're innovating in the right direction, but maybe they'll get around to it.

Rene Ritchie (00:37:32):
Yeah. Emoji Alex,

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:33):
Pretty dope though.

Alex Lindsay (00:37:34):
I love emoji. We, the emoji's great. I only wish that I could, it was easier to export stuff out, but yeah, like 3d, but anyway,

Rene Ritchie (00:37:41):
The, the, the, the big challenge though, is that the function of a, the function of a communications app is not emoji. The function of communications is to communicate, is to support whatever social ring, whatever social network. I don't mean a commercial. I mean, like your circle of friends, your circle of work, friends, work groups, circle of neighbor, friends, and you can't do that if no, one's gonna be impressed that, okay, so all but 30% of the people who need to get these messages can get these messages. But the 70% who do can have a cowboy hat on their little cartoon face, and again, all this stuff is really great. And I don't. Yeah, exactly. So this is, this is, this is why I really do wish that apple appreciated that again, the, the purpose of a communications app is to communicate and, and respecting the social network that you yourself are bringing to that app is more important than almost any other thing. You can do whatever you want after you do that. But it's like, like a bridge that it looks beautiful, but it sways so much in the, in the wind that you have to call it. You have to, you have to shut it down during bad weather. That's not a bridge. That's, that's a, that's a beautiful landscaping object that can occasionally support traffic. And that's sometimes what FaceTime feels like in messages. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:38:51):
And I, and I don't know whether it's, you know, I think it, it also depends on what environment you're in. I, I, I get, I get so few green messages now, and I don't know whether that's just because I'm in, I'm modal, you know, I'm talking to some people on signal and mostly signal <laugh>. So other than other than eye messages. And, and I just don't have that. I feel like, you know, most of my environment, and this is across many companies and across many friends it just all seems to be a lot of blue bubbles. And so I, I guess for me, I think it depends on what environment you're in and what your network is as to whether you're really impacted by that or not. I think almost everybody that I, that I interact with on messages is, is, is, is in that bubble. And so I don't, it's really nice bubble <laugh> like, so it's

Andy Ihnatko (00:39:34):
Only green bubble

Rene Ritchie (00:39:34):
Friend. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:39:35):
Andy is my only green bubble.

Rene Ritchie (00:39:37):
Exactly. No, but isn't that, isn't that, isn't that a self isn't that a self phone that, that, that, that the reason why you, you see so few green bubbles is that all of us who have Android phones are probably talking to you on signal or something. We can have that rich media rich social, social experience without, you know, having

Alex Lindsay (00:39:55):
To, well, I think I'm also very slow to respond because it only shows up on my phone. Like the green bubble only shows up on one phone and the blue bubble show up everywhere. And so I I'm very, you know, but it's, but I think that I just think that as a user of the, as a blue bubble, you know, user, if someone said, would you like to have more access to people or have apple be able to move faster? Most of us would say faster. Like, you know, like, you know, we'd like to go, we would like faster,

Rene Ritchie (00:40:21):
Unless, unless you're an apple investor from, you're not apple investors point, I care about apple. Yeah. Cause're really hurt

Alex Lindsay (00:40:27):
Apples, really

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:27):
Having trouble, like all my media friends who use both Android and iPhone only ever DM me, no matter what I do though. Only ever D like everyone agreed in tech media, that Twitter is gonna be our universal platform. Probably cuz we all have 18 other ones we don't wanna bother with

Rene Ritchie (00:40:40):
<Laugh>.

Alex Lindsay (00:40:41):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:40:43):
Apple's not going down as fast as Bitcoin, but it has been going down lately. Yes. As have all those,

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:48):
But the stable coins, the stable coins

Leo Laporte (00:40:49):
Made all those stable coins are so stable. Aren't they? They're not

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:52):
So stable.

Leo Laporte (00:40:53):
<Laugh> let's take a little break. Lots more to talk about. We're just

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:57):
Getting, oh, can I just quickly add that the Quebec pension plan in invested in the, in the Celsius one, I assume because they thought it was metric. Oh God. And so thank you. Thank you so much for that Quebec pension plan. Oh my

Leo Laporte (00:41:06):
God. <Laugh> you know, I, I had mentioned this before. There was an advertiser came to us and said, we want to talk about how people can use Bitcoin in their 401k. And I said, no, you're not, not in my show. Oh, not, not my show. Danger,

Rene Ritchie (00:41:20):
Danger, danger, danger.

Andy Ihnatko (00:41:22):
The stories are horrible. It's like people like I put my life savings, my house, my kid's college fund because they promised me 10% interest. And I'm like, there's no way they could give you 10% interest.

Alex Lindsay (00:41:30):
This is, but, but this is, this is also why you only this is why they have qual. The S sec has qualified is to understand

Leo Laporte (00:41:38):
That you, you spread

Alex Lindsay (00:41:39):
It out. But,

Leo Laporte (00:41:40):
But thanks to the jobs act, it's much more open now than it used to

Andy Ihnatko (00:41:44):
Be. And they're not banks. Remember, that's got the guy who ran CEL said, it's like your neighbor, borrows you some sugar then brings it back to you with a, an extra teaspoon in it. That's not a bank. We shouldn't be regulated like banks. We're a commodity.

Leo Laporte (00:41:55):
Yes. We're just sugar, baby.

Andy Ihnatko (00:41:57):
Where's all my sugar.

Leo Laporte (00:41:58):
This this, this actually

Rene Ritchie (00:42:00):
Too agile for you.

Leo Laporte (00:42:01):
This story grinds my gears just it's completely off topic, but I'm gonna mention Jay-Z. This is a motherboard story is giving back to the community. He grew up in with a Bitcoin academy. He's teaming up with Jack Dorsey to teach, to teach residents of public housing projects about Bitcoin. It's a crypto kids camp for kids five to 17. Does that am I

Andy Ihnatko (00:42:28):
<Laugh>? No. I'm sure. No, look, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be that person. I'm sure there are fabulous uses for the technologies that involve like federated groups and, and blockchains and non fungible tokens. I'm sure like the same way we did not know the, like with the consequences of, of oof and asynchronous, like, you know, Ajax and all those things back in the day, but it is just such a GIF's minefield that you have to be, you have to look across the horizon until well-established, you know, beneficial use cases come out.

Leo Laporte (00:42:57):
If that was what the academy was all about. <Laugh> which, by the way, that's a one day event, don't do this, don't go near it. It's all a scam and you're gonna get ripped off. And what really saddens me is so many of my friends so many people I know are flogging NFTs now. And and yeah, I mean, that's, the whole attitude is, oh, you're just a boomer. You're old, man. You just don't understand. This is your future. Well if the future is people losing their houses, I guess. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:43:27):
Well, again, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's the nature of speculation. Like, and, and because of the stability of the, of the currency it can't really be used as currency. It's not current,

Leo Laporte (00:43:36):
You don't going

Alex Lindsay (00:43:37):
Anywhere. It's like, yeah, but, but I'm saying it's not, but it doesn't act like currency. It acts like a, a speculative market, like toilet

Leo Laporte (00:43:44):
Bulbs.

Alex Lindsay (00:43:45):
Yeah. You know, like, so you don't want sell it when it's going up and you obviously, you know, you know, so you don't, you're not using it. You know, I,

Leo Laporte (00:43:51):
I wouldn't necessarily buy this dip of Bitcoin, however, well

Andy Ihnatko (00:43:54):
There, I mean, but there are like academic and artistic uses that, that aren't about money that are beautiful and interesting and might go somewhere. And I don't ever wanna disparage those, cuz they're not, they're not Gring anybody, but there's just so much

Leo Laporte (00:44:04):
Gr well, all right. I'll disparage them cuz it really is all about gr and that's the excuse that drifters use is, oh, you just don't understand the technology. Well, guess what? I actually understand the,

Andy Ihnatko (00:44:16):
You understand the gr

Leo Laporte (00:44:19):
Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:44:20):
It's yeah. <Laugh> since time immemorial. Since since since Mr. Ponzi started having male coupons saying, you know what, the reason why you don't succeed is because you don't dare to

Leo Laporte (00:44:31):
Succeed. Dare I say courage favors the brave. Yeah. and also not to mention the environmental impact of all this stuff. It's the last thing we would need to be doing. You like an artist, buy a print. One of my very favorite artists, own name names, doesn't sell prints anymore. She sells NFTs

Alex Lindsay (00:44:50):
And how's she doing?

Leo Laporte (00:44:52):
Probably doing great, but I feel those people are buying the NFTs may not so much. And I wanna

Andy Ihnatko (00:44:58):
Had only made up his own monkey. Like he would've, he would've saved himself 60 $600,000 by now. I mean, how much he, he

Leo Laporte (00:45:03):
Paid a hundred thousand more to the guy who got bought it from the guy who stole and

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:07):
Then the original fee that he paid for it to

Leo Laporte (00:45:09):
Begin with. Oh, that's right. So it's 600 total 300.

Alex Lindsay (00:45:12):
Yeah. But the thing is, is that the whole art market is irrational. Like it it's, it's it like?

Leo Laporte (00:45:17):
Yeah. At least you get a painting when you buy one, come on, you know, instead of a URL. Oh, I got a URL. That's great. Thank you. Okay. To,

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:26):
To be, to

Leo Laporte (00:45:26):
Be,

Rene Ritchie (00:45:27):
To be fair. What you get is an item in a Swiss customs house where exists in a tax limbo and a piece

Leo Laporte (00:45:37):
Of paper. I don't like those people either. I agree. Okay. You're right. I don't like those people, but it's, don't lock up beautiful art in a warehouse, I guess.

Alex Lindsay (00:45:44):
I guess I would just say to me the whole thing is like no new tale to tell. Like, it's just, it's just another version of the thing that I've tail is always and that you watch go by. Yep. Yeah. Is, you know, people and, but

Leo Laporte (00:45:54):
Speculative. Yeah. But the problem is it has that shiny gloss of the modern and of tech. And and I think people get sucked into it because, and

Andy Ihnatko (00:46:03):
Influencers that people like people mistake, like

Leo Laporte (00:46:06):
That's what bugs me. People like Jay-Z flogging this well

Andy Ihnatko (00:46:09):
As people with like great audience. If you have great audience, I really deeply believe that you have great responsibility. Yes. But there are a lot of people who don't feel like they have to add value or give value, but they have to extract money. Like those people are dumb, like idiots, who they're just gonna take all this money from. And we seem to mistake celebrity for authenticity and sincerity and like honesty. And we really, really shouldn't it's to our detriment every time.

Leo Laporte (00:46:30):
Yeah. Our show today brought to you by collide. I do think this is a really cool thing. If you are in a business that uses slack, this is I think the best way to, to improve your security by educating your employees. Slack is in contrast the old school device management tools like MDM, you know, locking employees, devices, you know, just saying, no, you can't Uhuh. It's, you know, putting glue in the USB port, that kind of thing. You, and of course what happens is you frustrate your end users so badly that eventually they throw up their hands and start using their own devices, which is actually worse for everyone. All around collide is very different. It was built by likeminded security practitioners who in the past saw just how much MDM was disrupting their end users and really disrupting their end goals of being secure collide.

Leo Laporte (00:47:26):
Instead of locking down a device, it takes a user focused approach. It, it communicates security recommendations to your employees directly on slack. And I think this is so cool. It starts with the end users installing their own endpoint agent. It says, hi, I'm KA collide in the slack and let's install this endpoint agent to help keep you more secure. As after it's set up it, device security turns from a black and white state into a dynamic conversation. In fact, you'll see we're showing it on the video, but if you, if you don't have the video, if you're listening, go to collide.com/mac break, K O L I D e.com/mac break. And you can see some examples of the messages collide sends. Whenever it says there's an insecure issue or whatever, it'll send a message and walks the employee through why it's a problem and what they can do about it.

Leo Laporte (00:48:11):
Things simple things like maybe your lock screen isn't set up, right? So that, you know, somebody during lunch, your, your screensaver comes on, but somebody could still sit down and use your, your company email to send a message in your name but also hard to solve the more nuanced things that that actually collide does such a good job of explaining. As an example, somebody who has, you know, downloaded their two factor backup codes, their stor you know, their emergency codes, but just stored 'em in the clear, in their download folder. <Laugh> and they may not know that what that's a problem, why, and then collide explains and says, here, let me help. Let's do this together because it's talking directly to employees by the way, without a lot of work on your party, either this is all automatic collide is educating them about the company's policies about how to best keep devices secure.

Leo Laporte (00:49:00):
It gives 'em real examples, not theoretical scenarios and it's cross platform, Linux, Mac windows. It puts end users first for teams that use slack. A really, I think a really brilliant idea. Get endpoint management that puts the user first visit collide.com/mac break to learn more. You can activate a 14 day trial free, no credit card required visit K O L I D e.com/mac break. You also get that goody bag of collide swag when you sign up for a trial as their way of saying thank you. Some nice little stickers and stuff like that. K O L I D E collide com slash Mac break. Mike Cranston accents shining through. Thank you, collide for supporting MacBreak Weekly. Let's see, kind of trouble brewing in in Europe over oddly enough app tracking transparency. This seems to me like the EU and it's following in the footsteps of of great Britain and Germany kinda looking at app tracking transparency. Do you think this is because Facebook complained and people like Facebook complained? Yes. Well, everyone crackiness is complaining. Right? You know, everybody, right? It just, you would think this is like, the EU would like this right now. Well, Google

Andy Ihnatko (00:50:27):
Doesn't care cuz they have perfect platform, knowledge through Chrome and Android, but like Facebook. Right? And it's not that anyone's losing advertising. The studies show that they're still getting advertising. It's just no longer going through Facebook's collection. So they don't see it in Facebook, but they still see it in their own ledgers now. Yeah. Super

Leo Laporte (00:50:40):
Interesting. Germany's antitrust watchdog is the latest probing at T the federal cocktail office has just announced it's investigating the framework over concerns that apple could be breaching competition rules by self referenc, which is not, you know, that might be a, a nuance, but that's a good point is first party tracking just as you said, Google doesn't lose that. The information they were and

Andy Ihnatko (00:51:05):
Apple has purple apple party. Perfect knowledge on the right. The, the thing to me is like, I, I, I understand why like even Steve jobs, did I a like, so people have said, you know, Steve jobs would never, he did. He did ever, he did I ads, but like, I don't think it's a good business for apple. I think it's corrosive. I think they can make money in it, but it's not a business. They should be in ESP and they're not even great at it. Like the, they do ads in three places. They do it on well, they do trailers and TV plus, but they do ads and news. They do ads in the app store. It's a terrible experience. Nobody likes it. Like I don't, I can't imagine it's, it's, it's a lot of business for them. Just get rid of advertising and, and be like completely, they don't

Leo Laporte (00:51:38):
Need to

Andy Ihnatko (00:51:39):
Do this. They're controversies. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:51:40):
I agree. I, I think Google made a mistake by by, you know, getting into the content game, getting into shopping, and then it looks like whether they're doing it or not, they're, self-referencing their properties in, search's

Andy Ihnatko (00:51:52):
The conflict of interest.

Leo Laporte (00:51:53):
It looks, it's a, it's an apparent conflict of interest, if not a real one. And, and I, yeah, just it's apple doesn't and if it was need, and if it was a huge percentage of their income, I think it would make sense, but it's not right. You know, and it, and it just

Andy Ihnatko (00:52:04):
They're fighting war over. Yeah. The worst businesses.

Leo Laporte (00:52:06):
So they exempt their own apps from, at T

Andy Ihnatko (00:52:10):
They don't like if their app, but their apps don't do any third party. So at ATT designed to prevent them from tracking between apps and across the web and apple only ever contains you in one app. And they say expressly, they don't share data from news. Okay. With data from any other app. So they don't do it, but it looks like they like, people are like, well, why? And they, and it's this big

Leo Laporte (00:52:27):
Because you don't get that pop up that says, do you want this app to track you? Because it's not, you're thinking they're exempting themselves. They're not, cuz it's not. They already know we're we're not right. Okay. Yeah. All,

Rene Ritchie (00:52:37):
And it's, it's

Andy Ihnatko (00:52:37):
Also how you explain that. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:52:39):
Well, I didn't know. So there you go. Yeah, <laugh> right. But,

Rene Ritchie (00:52:43):
But this, but this is, this is how transparency happens that I, I don't, I think a company like apple, particularly they're they have their secrets, but it's not as though they're deliberately like swirling away every piece of information they're not legally required to, to put out, but sometimes they're just not aware of how much damage they can do to themselves and to an ecosystem by simply not saying here's our position, here's what we do. Here's what we don't do. It's O I think it's perfectly appropriate for the EU for, for the, for the German government, for our government, for any governor government to say, guess what, you're gonna explain to us how the system rule works. You're gonna defend it. And you're gonna convince us that this isn't anti-competitive cause the answer could be that, okay, now that we know how this works, this is an anti competi. Thanks for ha thanks for coming in, go <laugh> enjoy the gift shop on the way outta Congress. But, and some, and in, in any, and in any event, it will encourage companies like apple and Microsoft and Google to be more transparent in the future to realize that we even Caesar's wife must be beyond reproach. It doesn't matter that you're internally, you've got standards and principles. You have to also make sure that it's, it is known that you are, you have standards and principles.

Leo Laporte (00:53:53):
Yeah. apple developers, lawsuit, the judges has accepted a hundred million dollar deal, but then says, but why the lawyers get 27 million of that? Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:54:07):
A lot of photocopies

Alex Lindsay (00:54:08):
Like that, that, that, that $3 check that you got from bank of America. Yeah. You know, for some settlement, the lawyers got 27%, 27% is actually pretty low for a lawyer. It's it's you know, it's usually depending on, it's usually 20, 27,

Leo Laporte (00:54:23):
It's like half right. 40.

Alex Lindsay (00:54:24):
Yeah. As usually 27, 25 to 40% is a pretty normal I come from a family lawyers <laugh> so you say that that's like 27% is actually pretty low. Especially if they take it on, if they charge you for it, it'll be a lower number. If they don't charge you, then they they're, they're investing cont in your lawsuit. You know, the contingency is like, they're they're if they're investing in your lawsuit then they expect to get the percentage that they got because they, you wouldn't win it without the, you know, like it's, you know, so it's,

Andy Ihnatko (00:54:53):
The lawyers always

Alex Lindsay (00:54:53):
Win the argument. So

Leo Laporte (00:54:54):
The suit was over the same thing of the epic suits over, which is the requirement to use the the app store. Apple has settled for a hundred million proposing, a small developer assistance fund, which was created as part of the settlement, which will benefit over 99% of us iOS developers whose proceeds from app and in-app digital product sales through all associated accounts were less than a million dollars. This is the, you know, they've been very kind to the people who make less than a million dollars, cuz they get so much from the people who make more than a million dollars. Yeah. You will be able to claim a sum from the fund ranging between $250 and $30,000, depending on your participation in the app store ecosystem. You have until May 20th. Well, wait a minute. Is this an old story now? I'm concerned. Oh, of is that of next year you have until May 20th. Oh. So if, okay, so if you didn't, so actually that period is obviously over. If you didn't request to participate, you will not be participating in this. So I hope you did. I hope you knew about it. It's

Andy Ihnatko (00:56:00):
Like, I know that's not everyone, but like what really depresses me is that a lot of the people who are highly active, like in the app, in the anti app store movement, like the, the one that's named are companies that are just like, if you, you spend two minutes looking into them, they are the worst companies. Like they have the grossest of allegations against them. And they conduct business in such a like abhorrent way. I wish there was like the indie developers that I love had the finance it's like someone should just bankroll them, know, let them get their concerns. I know they don't wanna be the next app. Like a lot of these wanna be the next app store they're fighting, we're having billion, billion dollar companies fight trillion dollar companies to be the next gatekeeper. And I just want indie developers to get paid without all of their nonsense. People like

Leo Laporte (00:56:37):
Thompson. It should just be, you know, get, write 'em a check apple. Just give them,

Andy Ihnatko (00:56:41):
Give them Spotify, Mac, get like Spotify match and like spend two minutes looking at the allegations. And you're just like, no, I like, I don't want you to win either. I do

Leo Laporte (00:56:47):
That all the time. I mean, GitHub now has a way to donate to developers or a lot of open source developers. You just give freely. And if I use their, you know, a lot of their tools and stuff, I will, I will donate to them on GitHub. There are ways to, we can do that. But I think companies that are benefiting like apple that are benefiting for the labors of these people should also kick in a little bit. It's again, judge Yvan Gonzalez Rogers she's in on everything. She talked to the the lead council, Steven Berman of Hoggins Berman, Sobel Shapiro. She said, you need to submit a mathematical breakdown of how much each class member would receive. If I gave you 25 million instead of 27 million, she says it could make a big difference for small developers, who are the people taking the brunt of this. Yeah. And she's right. That's why I wanna see the numbers. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:57:37):
I don't know if it'll make a big difference. I mean, it's two, it's 2% it'll it'll it'll get them 2% more. I mean, it's, it's fine. I mean, she, I, it, it is fine to, to, to ask for 2 million and they can afford it. I'm sure. I'm sure they made a lot of money on this thing. Yeah. But, but to say that it's actually, it's gonna be their, their check is gonna be three, you know, it's gonna be 3%, it's gonna be 2% more. So if they got $300, they'll get $306. Right. You know, like it's not, it's not like it's gonna be, they're suddenly gonna get $600. And so, so it's, it's a, I mean, it, it, I, it's a lot of money and I think that the whole thing's a sham. Like I think the whole way that we do this, these class action lawsuits is a sham. That's right. So it's not like I'm agreeing with it. No, I'm just saying that that's deal for her to say that somehow it's gonna make a difference for the developers is BS.

Andy Ihnatko (00:58:22):
Like it's it was super interesting.

Leo Laporte (00:58:24):
Go ahead, Andy.

Rene Ritchie (00:58:25):
I just, can I just say that it has already made a difference for developers, right? Unless, unless

Andy Ihnatko (00:58:30):
It has now,

Rene Ritchie (00:58:32):
Unless, unless we all think that apple is just gonna start waving fees for for low income low revenue developers to begin with. Sometimes the, I think you're absolutely right. That in terms of doing what you imagine, a class action shoot suit should do providing relief and recom to people who have been hurt by a company action. You're absolutely right. But this is the sort of stuff that it is. It's not, it's not just a nuisance. Even if it's something and even if it's a hundred million dollars, I know. Well, applicant just write a check from pocket cash. It's still a nuisance. It's still an inconveniences, still

Alex Lindsay (00:59:05):
Something I'm that basical

Rene Ritchie (00:59:05):
Tells that. Right. Okay. I, I just wanna

Alex Lindsay (00:59:07):
I'm that's not my arguments. I'm glad you, I'm glad you, I'm glad you brought it up, but I, that's not my argument. My argument is it's the change between 27 and 25 that I think is, is I think that having a ruling that forces a company to, to, to go down a path I think is, is fine for class action lawsuit. It's just that the way that they're structured, that everyone gets 10 cents, right. It's just kind of like, it's, it's, it's really there for the lawyers to, it pays the lawyers to do what they do, which is fine.

Leo Laporte (00:59:31):
And that's what a judge could weigh in on. And it is only 2%, which is silly, but it's better than nothing. And I think judges should weigh in more on these kinds of things, you know, because

Alex Lindsay (00:59:43):
It just, the funny, it, funny thing it's, it's just a funny detail to, to dig into that's all is it's strange as someone who's, who's grown, grown up in that environment for someone to dig into 2% on a 10 million

Leo Laporte (00:59:52):
Don't think let's really do it like well, or, or

Alex Lindsay (00:59:54):
Just 10%, you know, I'm sure that it was agreed to it at some point, you know, like it's, you know, she's trying to change the agreement. Right. That's, that's the thing that it's just like, you know, and, and it's like, that's what if they had lost? They would've gotten nothing. That's that's the,

Leo Laporte (01:00:05):
That's the risk. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:00:06):
So that's the

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:06):
Risk. One of the things I found super interesting was that like, just the battle for the narratives, like, I think it's indisputable that apple hasn't made, you know, apple left to their own brothers. Hasn't made significant improvements in the app store since I don't know, 2012 and the world has changed so much in the last decade. And the app store really didn't account for that, like things that were fundamentally true. Like, yes, you improved on the retail experience. You improved on a lot of the web delivery experiences, but the world has matured and that's not enough anymore. And the app store should have been evolving this whole time. And this has pushed a lot of that forward. But at the same time, you know, apple was there saying, you look on Twitter and all you see is like a lot of like DHA or they didn't use any names obviously.

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:40):
But like, you know, DHA just spouting off about how angry everybody is. And someone else is saying, you know, there's a revolt of developers and then you get to WC and there are people there who've made like a fortune, obviously they'd want more, everyone wants more money, but they made a fortune. They are so happy. They have these frameworks. They, they talk about how easy it is to make apps, like, especially like the young developers, like they would never have been able to do app on their own. They have all these frameworks and they're happy. They'd like to adjust the bargain, but they're not like the rage hate fuel mob that you sometimes see on Twitter. And it was interesting to see sort of those two, those two things meet in the middle. I don't think either one of them is necessarily true. I think the app store needs to evolve, but also like the, the rampant torches and, and pitchforks are probably quite a bit performative at this

Leo Laporte (01:01:18):
Stage. So I just was looking here is from tort reform.com. Article says, class action lawyers often take more money from settlements than the members of the class. Yeah. So the lawyers make more lawyers always win. Yeah. Lawyers always win. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:01:35):
The value, the value of a class action lawsuit is to heavily reward a lawyer for bringing it up. Right. So that it can be so that it can be handled because without the big payoff that these law firms wouldn't bother and they, and to go up against a very large company, they have to, you know, the, the lawyers are spending millions of dollars on it. I don't know. I'm sure they made a great margin, but they, they definitely did. Oh, this costs sense on this case, they probably, my guess is they probably put five or 10 million into this thing to put it out. And, and some of those they lose and then that money just goes away, you know? And so, so they're, you know, in the same way that if you're an investor hopes that one out of every five or one out of every 10 things pay off the lawyers are, you know, these, these lawyers are taking on these class action lawsuits and they're, they're basically speculating on whether they can win or not on their own skillset on their own, you know, those kinds of things. So, so I think that that's

Leo Laporte (01:02:24):
Watch better

Alex Lindsay (01:02:25):
Unreasonable.

Leo Laporte (01:02:25):
I understand what's going on, but, but,

Alex Lindsay (01:02:27):
But what I would say is, so I don't have, but I, but I do think sometimes when you get these, these, these like nitty, this one is not this way, but I have, I just, the reason I'm so think I thought about it this morning. Cause I got some check about for $2 and 37 cents.

Leo Laporte (01:02:38):
Oh, I get, I get those all the time. <Laugh> it's I got a bag of pop chips. Once there was a big lawsuit against pop chips for saying they were healthy or something, but

Alex Lindsay (01:02:48):
The, but the value isn't the money to the, to the class action receivers. It's more, most of the time, what it really is, is it's it is telling that company, they can't do that anymore. You know, and, and or they, you know, and put putting something on it. So

Leo Laporte (01:03:00):
Yeah. There was a class action against pop chips for implying <laugh> that their flavors, including barbecue, sweet potato and cheddar were all natural when they actually contain artificial and synthetic ingredient <laugh> ingredients, which I knew, which is why I like pop chips. So <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:03:19):
Not a bug. It's a feature.

Leo Laporte (01:03:20):
It's a feature. It's like those balls in your, I don't think that those are that's any, is there real cheese in there? I don't know. According to the settlement terms, excuse

Rene Ritchie (01:03:28):
Me. There, there is, there was authentic C H E E Z in the,

Leo Laporte (01:03:31):
In every single. Oh yeah. By way. That's why they call it ch E Z <laugh> they don't wanna imply it's chocolatey, right? Yeah. According to the settlement terms, class members can receive. And I was in this class either a dollar cash refund or two, $1 vouchers for up to 10 bags of pop chips products. Thank you. I'm so grateful. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:03:53):
Actually actually not, no, no joke.

Leo Laporte (01:03:55):
2013 

Rene Ritchie (01:03:57):
Ingredient number three. Remember that the product labels are ingredients are by by volume percentage, dried cheese blend way from milk, semis, soft cheese, pasteurized, milk, cheese, culture, salt, and enzymes.

Leo Laporte (01:04:10):
Okay. It's Cheesery product is what it is, but that's okay. You know what? I like Veta

Rene Ritchie (01:04:15):
Too. I'm getting dairy

Leo Laporte (01:04:16):
There. Everybody tells me there's some magic in when you're making Caso, you need to put Veta in because there's some ingredient in Veta that makes cheese melt. So you put in a little, it's like a little sourdough starter. You put a little Velda gets the other cheese to melt.

Alex Lindsay (01:04:33):
I think about it. But I, I, I just can't bring myself.

Leo Laporte (01:04:35):
I can't Veta. No, like I just,

Alex Lindsay (01:04:37):
I grew up in it. I grew up on it. Sure. So, and it just, and it just, but I'm just kinda, I, the

Leo Laporte (01:04:41):
Kids, things that I like American cheese on his burgers we've slowly weaned them off of that with just orange cheese. But of course, no cheese is orange. It's orange. Cuz they put Carine in it. But at least it's CLO, it looks like it's VE

Rene Ritchie (01:04:57):
It's user interface. I'm sure it's that's user interface. That's how you know it's cheese flavored.

Leo Laporte (01:05:01):
Yeah. WhatsApp is finally making it easy to move from Android to iOS. This is partly because of WhatsApp itself. The app is adding a feature to help you move your content over and it'll be part of, Apple's moving to iOS tools. So Apple's gonna help isn't

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:20):
It wild. It doesn't cause every other, every other service you just log in and all your stuff

Leo Laporte (01:05:24):
Comes down. Yeah. Why wouldn't they I'll tell you why? Because the encryption is an issue. Right. And then encryption, in fact, this was, this was to the horror of some defendants. This was the revelation that when you use iCloud backup, your WhatsApp messages are backed up in the clear right to Apple's servers where they can be handle

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:47):
They're encrypted, but apple has a key yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:05:49):
Apple. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's I call that not encrypted, but like

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:53):
Hack hacks, ORs can't get in, but apple can.

Leo Laporte (01:05:55):
Yeah. Okay. and, and, and is glad to hand them over. Actually it's a well, we won't go the politics of it, but nevertheless, this is still end to end encrypted. So that's the thing that hack, but

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:08):
Other services like you log in and they're end to end encrypted and there's no backup and it's still like, you're you're well, I, there is, I guess, a cloud store of truth for the messages or some persistence level and they come down, but this is great because it, and what I like is the, the info sec is really smart. It's like the I got to talk to some of the Facebook, I can't call 'em Facebook anymore. Damn. Some of the mad people and some of the odd people about it. And it's super interesting cuz you yeah, so basically you, you go through this process and it down, it puts like a little placeholder for the app on your screen. It doesn't download it until you tap it. But in the meantime it takes all your messages, encrypts them in this bubble so that apple can't see them, you know, Facebook, can't see, 'em it just downloads directly to your phone and it's all put in the right place, but it stays encrypted until you tap on the app and then it finishes downloading the app and opens it. And then you have to still insert your WhatsApp credentials to unlock the, the secure bundle that has all of your messages in it. So it's, it's, it's highly resilient against people trying to abuse it, like trying to just like set up somebody else's messages, but it also manages and transport all that back history, which for some people is apparently everything like photos and videos going back years and years and years and years and years just large amounts of data.

Leo Laporte (01:07:15):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good thing. And WhatsApp is widely used outside the us. It's the number one messaging app in many countries like Brazil. So this is good. This is an effect giving end, end encryption and portability to hundreds of millions, if not billions of users. Yep. Good thing. Let's see, we're gonna get new iPad pros according to Garman in the fall, they better have an M one in them. <Laugh> I dunno new models on the way

Andy Ihnatko (01:07:50):
Joking, but the rumor today, like there was a different rumor than marks today about alar, like the bigger mark and the guy from display consulting are going back and forth on this stuff, but a bigger iPad pro like the 14 bigger pro yeah. But not being a pro like not having promo, not having a mini L E D display. And it's like, you're making a bigger peasant iPad. I don't understand anything where, oh wait, none of these rumors are actually true until apple ship something.

Leo Laporte (01:08:15):
Yes. Right. Yes. it doesn't make sense that they make a for well, right. I mean, if you're make, unless the costs are, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe, maybe they

Rene Ritchie (01:08:22):
Can't. Yeah. That's, that's the only part of the argument that made any sense to me was the idea that with the cost of those traditional panels coming down, that they could offer a 14 inch experience for pretty much not much money, not money, more than for school, this 0.9 inch experience. Yeah, exactly. Or for, or if they wanted to, if they, they, if they wanted to make an offering to the creative community and the artistic community to say, here's more surface for you to draw on here is just that little extra space for you to have your timelines when you're editing video and doing stuff like that. And the idea of having building a 14 inch panel with the exact same specs as the 12.9 inch pro, that might be kind of deadly. I mean, cuz at some point you'd be, at some point, if you, if you're trying to make a $2,000 iPad, you may as well start making a $2,500 Mac tablet, I think at that point. Yeah. So it could, so that's the only, but as Rene says believe nothing about something that's that's supposed to go next year. Yeah. You know, until that

Leo Laporte (01:09:17):
Was short to you. So Goman rumor was, it would be with the M2 chip, it would be a mini L E D display 14.1 inches like a high end high end and you're right. $2,000.

Alex Lindsay (01:09:27):
I mean apple could do anything, but it's just not the TikTok that they've been right. Doing for a long time. I mean usually marches the time that they've released the new iPad and it's kind of the framework for that. So it's not that they couldn't do it in the fall or they have never done something in the fall, but it seems like they, they have a lot to release in the fall right now between the phone and you know, in the new max and, and potentially, you know, updates

Leo Laporte (01:09:49):
To, I wanna see an M one mini, to be honest with you, I don't really want a 14 inch iPad. That sounds awfully big. But I would, I use my mini all the time and I, I think it'd be really great if I could if I can, thermal envelope would be hard. Yeah. I guess it already strains in an, in a, in an air. Does it really? Oh, the air. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Rene Ritchie (01:10:10):
And, and I'm also kind of, I really wish that apple would try to figure out how to make the iPad mini into, into essentially the the, the, I, I, I, I'm sorry that the iPad mini is now like so expensive and so full featured when I think that the butter zone for it is a $299 device, which is the big screen content consumption and limited content creation device that I loved in previous iPad minis. It's, it's just such a gorgeous form factor. It's like the perfect size much bigger than your phone screen. So you'll have a much better experience if you're reading or watching video, or even trying to compose a compose, an email with a, with a keyboard, but still so small that you don't feel like you're breaking your promise that no, no, no, honey. I promise we're not no work this weekend. I'm you know, just gonna bring the phone and I just wanna read, I'm just gonna be reading books all weekend. Yeah, exactly.

Leo Laporte (01:11:06):
Let's see. I want to get everything I'm excited about PA keys. Leo.

Andy Ihnatko (01:11:12):
I don't know if I'm ruining your, your show schedule. No,

Leo Laporte (01:11:16):
We mentioned on TWI. I said, this is one of the, I think one of the most important announcements for WWDC, not most important to apple, but most important to users, Google and Microsoft

Andy Ihnatko (01:11:27):
S were happy. Were they? That's the part that I loved is like, they weren't like one password. And I think a couple are like, we're joining this, this Alliance, you know, we're all like it. Wasn't like, oh, what are you doing to us? We're the whole, no, it's like, we wanna, we wanna make things better for everybody too.

Leo Laporte (01:11:39):
Well, how would one password work with PA? So the premise of PAs keys is no more passwords that the, the biometric identification in your phone, or in some cases your, your Mac is sufficient to prove you are who you say you are, that every time you visit a new site that wants you to sign up that new site will be sent a, it's a hash of your, I think of your public. It's like a token. Yeah. And that site, and it will have a token and all you'll have to do is authenticate. And the site will say, oh yeah, Leo, welcome. And that's it. Let's do now passwords say ever again. Yeah. And a lot of you see that single sign on that

Andy Ihnatko (01:12:16):
For individuals like enterprise, like solving this for enterprise, for example, or like, you know, if you're in a business, how you wanna share your PAs, I think that's gonna be a ripe area for, for

Leo Laporte (01:12:25):
A long one. Also

Alex Lindsay (01:12:26):
Apples, take a long, it's gonna take a long time, you know, for this to happen. And for, for one password and last pass, having the pass them adopting the pass key means that I get to use the pass key with their service. Right. So I, so I'm not, I don't have that because right now the weakest point in last pass or one password is the one password that you use to get in. So getting rid of that, oh, good point makes them much, much more secure.

Leo Laporte (01:12:47):
Oh,

Alex Lindsay (01:12:47):
Good point. And then they provide that service to get to, because like, for me, I have a very long phrase that I use in last pass to get in. And, and I but then everything else, unless they limit me, everything else is a 26 character hash, you know, just every website that I go to, everything that I log into is a 20, I just have it set to 26 letters and it just puts in random stuff. And so I'm already gone way down that path of, I just need the, so being able to have the passcode, being able to do that just with last pass for, for my case would make me feel much more secure.

Leo Laporte (01:13:24):
Also one password would they've joined the phyto Alliance. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> they would do AC Apple's sort of solving this by talking about storing your PAs keys in the I in iCloud, iCloud will, that was secure on Clive where your, your PAKEs can be safely stored you, of course keep your public your private key to yourself. But the, all the keys that you've established with all these sites have to be stored somewhere. And so by iCloud doing that, and by the way, Steve gibon concern last Tuesday, and we'll, we'll probably talk about it today was that's fine. As long as apple lets you export that, so you can move somewhere else and they do right. They, they announce that they're absolutely. But what one password's saying. Yeah, but the problem is that they're tied to this device. And so we wanna provide the, the authentication backend, the web often backend so that you're not tied to an individual device.

Leo Laporte (01:14:19):
It gets complicated play. Yeah. This is, this is their, this is their video here. I'll show you. So let me turn on the audio. Oh, that's on you save your credentials to one password now the audio's just music, so we don't care. So you still get the benefit of it, but you don't have to use a phone. You, in other words, you could authenticate without biometrics. I per personally prefer to use biometrics. Yeah. I guess if one password says, well, you had to use biometrics to get into one password. That would be okay. 

Andy Ihnatko (01:14:56):
We just need everybody to buy in or it's never gonna be a thing. And it needs to be a thing because passwords are such a bad solution. I think

Leo Laporte (01:15:01):
It's gonna happen fast. Actually. I think it's gonna happen faster

Andy Ihnatko (01:15:04):
Is a thing of the past social engineering is a thing of the past. Yeah. I think the main poison, like Steven know better, but it eliminates so many common. Yep. Yeah. Yep. So many of the common attacks there'll be new ones, of course, but it, it prevents so many of the existing ones.

Leo Laporte (01:15:16):
So if you have if when you sign into windows, for instance, these days you don't enter a password. Even the first time you sign in, it says, what's your Microsoft account email. You enter that. And it says, oh good. I'm sending to your phone three number. You identify that number on your phone. And of course you log in with a, with a authentication using touch ID or face ID or your pin. And then it will ask you again, okay, is this you, you enter say the number is 24 and then it does another face ID. And then without any password you're logged into your Microsoft account. So that's the kind of thing we'd see everywhere.

Alex Lindsay (01:15:55):
Of course the, the problem you worry about, and this is why they have to iron the status is YouTube was doing that for a little while where they would say open up YouTube on your phone to log into an account that you have been in. And then the phone didn't work <laugh> so you hit the button, you hit the thing and you couldn't. Then I, I literally, for a while, until they fixed it had, there was like two weeks. I couldn't get into one of my YouTube accounts. Oh,

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:13):
I found out about that. Like,

Alex Lindsay (01:16:15):
Oh

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:15):
My gosh, they what turns out YouTube's YouTube. I think we, again, we might have mentioned this before. I apologize, but YouTube has two different authentication systems. One for signin, one for verification, the signin one was fully was feature complete. The verification one was not. So where the, where the sign in one would say, pick a device, pick an authenticator, pick a we'll text, you a message would give you multiple options. The verification one would only pick a random device that you may or may not have with you and say, please like open that device. And everybody got walked out of YouTube every time they traveled.

Leo Laporte (01:16:44):
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:16:45):
Well, every, I, I, I had the device opened, I'm staring at it, it, the number pops up and when I selected nothing happens, you know, and it was almost

Andy Ihnatko (01:16:53):
A iPhone seven. I sent back to apple like three years ago.

Leo Laporte (01:16:55):
Oh, that's not. Yeah. So that's part of the reason why this has to be portable. That's why apple wants to put it in the cloud. So it isn't exactly tied to your phone. So one password last passenger is saying, or if you don't wanna use iCloud, you could use us as, as the, as the store, somebody's gotta store it somewhere so that you're not, you're not tied to that

Alex Lindsay (01:17:12):
Device. And again, whoever it is that does that, there's another decade of, of the, of the transition. I mean, it, a lot of it, I think, will happen over the next two or three years. So within two or three years, 60, 70, 80% of the things we do will not require because it'll be, it'll feel weird. Like, it'll go from, we're all used to passwords to why, like, why am I doing a password? And should I even even be on this site? You know, like, that's the kind of, that's the direction it will go. And I think that's

Leo Laporte (01:17:38):
Why I think this is gonna happen fast. I, I, with Google, Microsoft and apple, all in depends on how long those implementations take to get to the phones. But once they're on the phones, I don't, I can't imagine any site not turning it on except blogs and stuff. Right.

Alex Lindsay (01:17:51):
Yeah, exactly. I mean, the thing is, is that it, it, it, it it's the little, little, the smaller

Leo Laporte (01:17:55):
Sites ones that'll have trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, my, our, our TWI community, our discourse forums support, squirrel. It, wasn't so hard to do it. Yeah. So you know, I, I certainly would be implementing that kind of thing. As soon as I could, if it's, it

Rene Ritchie (01:18:12):
Might not how hard it's, it might take quite so long either because most, I mean, if you're building a website and you're doing e-commerce on that site, you're probably not writing your own solution. You are probably releasing a solution that's already been built and you're probably going to select a solution that has the most up to date exactly. Easy to use thing. So

Leo Laporte (01:18:27):
Yeah. Yeah. Word WordPress will do it. That's 60% right there. You know it's only gonna take a few of the big guys to to come along to to make this really happen. I, I think it, I hope you may be right Alex, but I, I do hope it ha happens quick. Cuz

Andy Ihnatko (01:18:43):
And it's the same team at apple that made the, you know, you get a text message and auto fills it for you. It's that team. So as delighted as you are by that, I'm imagining we're gonna be as delighted by that.

Leo Laporte (01:18:51):
Good. <Laugh> do they say that's go ahead

Rene Ritchie (01:18:53):
Al. That's always a great, that's always a great implication. I love a team that is, that creates a feature because something annoyed the hell out of them personally. Yes. And they realized that they had the power to make their phone, do this thing. Those are the people who find great solutions to problems and having them on, on the solutions for passwords is just, yeah. Do do that thing. Do, do be the most selfish team whatsoever. Do everything for your own benefit, cuz it will benefit all of us.

Leo Laporte (01:19:18):
Did they say anything about TV OS in the subsequent?

Andy Ihnatko (01:19:22):
Yes. not in the keynote, but it's TV OS is getting a couple things that are interesting to like a minority of people it's Samsung refuses to license dual vision. So a lot of people with Samsung TVs have been really upset that they couldn't get the same quality of experience. So now they're gonna support HDR 10 plus yay. Which is not exactly the same thing, but it's, it's better than HDR 10. So I'm super happy because the duke Samsung QD L EDS are fantastic, fantastic TVs. And everyone was waiting for like the, the, I forget the sharp or some other version to come out instead. Yeah. But now that works. And they just, they, they, they fixed a lot of little things along the way, like things that were not quite not quite audio cinema file. Perfect. They, they did

Leo Laporte (01:20:00):
A lot of work. I needed a new ample TV and I waited till after WWC to buy it just in case. But I did buy, you know, and it's for an HD TV. So I didn't get the 4k version. I just got the HD and it actually it's on sale right now, which concerned me, but I needed it. And for for the gym, cause we didn't have our apple TV failed. So do you think they'll be a new apple TV next week?

Andy Ihnatko (01:20:24):
My guess is that they're way they didn't do a big update and they're also waiting on new hardware because yeah, again, like my understanding is the experience for the VR a AR headset is gonna be very similar to apple TV. It's basically instead of getting a $300 box for your family, you'll get a $3,000 box for your face and that's a way better business to be in. Yeah. and it'll, it'll have a similarity in feature set, so they'll have hardware that's capable taking advantage of like a, a living room experience for everything they're rolling out for the, for the head experience.

Leo Laporte (01:20:49):
Speaking of a, a 3000 all experience we talked on Sunday on TWI, you and I and the rest of the panel about the apple car interface that they showed.

Andy Ihnatko (01:21:01):
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. The one other thing that people were super happy about is Nintendo controller support. Cuz people were super jealous that had Xbox and PlayStation. Oh right now it's got Nintendo. Right. So yes. Came is on that's the last thing I apologize.

Leo Laporte (01:21:17):
Okay. Fine. I mean, okay, good. I guess that display that they showed, which obviously no car maker is gonna implement. What do you think apple intended? I,

Alex Lindsay (01:21:32):
I don't know if it's no car, car maker. Like I think, I think that they, if you're in a a commoditized section of, of a, of, of a group of cars and you are, and you want to stand out and you're in the middle of the pack or the bottom of the pack, apple probably won't, if you're the bottom of the pack, they probably won't want to do something with you, but maybe but if you're in the middle of the pack and trying to move up a position or two, you know, the idea, unless you're really good at your industrial design, you may say, Hey, I'm gonna put this in. I'm gonna take advantage of the fact that Apple's gonna talk about me. People are gonna, I mean, I, I have to say that after looking at that interface,

Leo Laporte (01:22:04):
That's what I want.

Alex Lindsay (01:22:05):
I got back in my car and I was like, well, this is bad. Yeah. You know, like, you know, and it's, it kind ruins the kind of as an apple user, because the thing is, I think that there is, there is a value to apple users who want their entire environment to be what it is. And there's a lot of them and they will buy they'll buy things because it has the, the integrates with the apples. This is what Apple's really good at integrating everything together. And the idea that their car is gonna tie into all of that is something that I, I know that as soon as a car comes out, if it's all electric and it has that interface, the chances of me buying a different car, if it doesn't have, that is very low. Like, you know, and, and you know, like I would definitely want that experience unless it would have to be really, the issue is it would have to be really far behind.

Alex Lindsay (01:22:46):
But if it's neck and neck, which I, I, for me, most cars are neck and neck. There's like, you know, three or four different kinds of cars <laugh> in my eyes. And so if it's, if it's like a Ford fusion, you know, across the board, right. You know, if it's, if it's a Honda or a, you know, like the accord, the fusion, the whatever, the Kia one is all of those ones in that price range and it's electric or whatever. And it has that. And one of 'em has that interface. They're gonna see a bump. Yeah. Just the way at and T saw a bump. When they, when they took on the phone, it was,

Leo Laporte (01:23:16):
Do you think though, mark Kerman says it's the, for shock to the apple car earthquake, do you think that's?

Andy Ihnatko (01:23:22):
I think there's a, I think there was something that was missing though in a lot of the analysis. Cause some people went and asked the car companies that they're gonna do it and they wouldn't say anything, but like, would you expect them to Osborne their current cars and CarPlay solutions? No. No. 

Leo Laporte (01:23:34):
Yeah, but nobody's gonna wait a year, a year. It's a two deployment for them. Yeah. Nobody's gonna wait three years if they need a car today. I don't.

Andy Ihnatko (01:23:39):
But the interesting stat was that apple said like, and as far as I know, this is true, cuz a bunch of us checked like 70, was it 6,000, 79% of people who are 79% of people who are gonna buy a new car, not a used car, but a new car, want car play on it. And that means 79% of new car customers are iPhone users. And that gives apple an incredible amount of leverage because outside the EV makers who are software, first companies, these companies don't have any idea how to do software. And they're increasingly not wanting to put up with the pain of doing software. And if apple can come in and give them something that makes their cars more marketable to an affluent, a very large affluent segment of the economy. I, I think we're gonna be surprised at how many of these start shipping in the next video.

Leo Laporte (01:24:18):
So you don't think this is, Apple's kind of way of wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and wait till you see a car that we make.

Alex Lindsay (01:24:25):
I think the car a long way away.

Andy Ihnatko (01:24:28):
Yeah. This is the rocker before the iPhone.

Rene Ritchie (01:24:30):
I, I, I do think this is a if to answer your question, I think that this is a way for apple to start making some money or some juice off of the research that they're putting into the car program, given that the, what they're gonna do with this is probably still very much up in the air. If the, if the, if the amount, if the revolving door in front of that lab of people entering the team and leaving the team is anything to, to, to go by. I was very, I I've, I've been looking at that. It wasn't even a demo. It was just an art mockup. I'm really surprised. It seemed like a very, very non apple way of explaining how they're doing the, it was basically here is an enormous display. Let's just fill it with crap. I mean, let's put lots of stuff that have nothing has nothing to do with the operation of a car or the entertainment features. Let's be distracted by what my schedule is. My calendar stuff is nothing that will make, that would make me feel as though I'm going, this is going benefit my life in any meaningful way.

Leo Laporte (01:25:22):
You don't have a car with CarPlay. Do you, Andy?

Rene Ritchie (01:25:25):
I rent, I rent lots of, I rent lots of cars now.

Leo Laporte (01:25:27):
Cause my, I have my calendar every day when I get into my car.

Rene Ritchie (01:25:30):
No, no, no, but, but, but, but is it, but would it be, would it be like a, a, a fixed feature on the thing? Why, why not? Why not basically making it make it so that unused space is very, very important and here's, here's something that makes it attractive and we we'll, we'll take the faux leather from Steve jobs Gulf stream. And we'll make that your, your faux leather stitched fake. I mean, I think I just, I just, I just think that

Leo Laporte (01:25:54):
I'll tell you why the calendar's great because if you've got an appointment and you've gotta be there, you could tap the appointment and it will navigate to it. But this also wasn't or seven minutes late or stuff like that. And they said, it's gonna be branded that all the time.

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:08):
When this all rolls out, it's gonna be, it's gonna be carved manufacturer branded. It's not gonna look like this. It's gonna look like a Chrysler or like a Toyota or like a, so it's gonna look very different

Alex Lindsay (01:26:16):
Than this. And, and, and of all the cars I've gotten into, I've just never seen anyone complain about their screen being too too big. <Laugh> like, they don't like, I haven't seen anybody say, I really wish this. I really wish the screen was, was smaller. You know, they mostly talk about how great it is, especially Tesla drivers giant. Yeah. But practically jumbotron,

Rene Ritchie (01:26:34):
But that's realize it's, it's a traditional screen. That's set into a, a conventional dashboard, the design, the design of which has been scrutinized with hundreds of millions of dollars of brain power and technology. I mean, you think that you think that Johnny ive is a design walk. You think that you think that Mac people are design walks. I have never met more intense design walks than people who design cars. And I really think that they're gonna wanna have to put their, they they're, they will want to say that we are not just like apple will not let you side load apps onto a phone because look, that would be a disastrous experience. And we don't want our customers to have bad experiences. I think that a lot of designers even the ones that are making luxury cars where the, the differences are very, very fine are gonna want to say that we are not gonna create a, put a feature that will allow people to have an ugly dashboard design or dashboard design that is not functional. We're gonna design a control system. Let me show you absolute sense.

Leo Laporte (01:27:32):
Something that is shipping now, the Mercedes EQs dashboard which is all screen all the way across. This is the only car I know of that actually could do. I mean, there are three different screens, but they could do it.

Alex Lindsay (01:27:43):
And even then I look at that, I go, eh, it's okay. Yeah. Like the, the, the worst part is, is that, is that I, as soon as I saw the apple one, I was like, I don't wanna buy another car until that's available. And, and I literally look at every car I sit in now going, wow, that dashboard stinks. You know, like, you know, and it just, it literally just seen apple put that up, had me immediately start having a well, that's

Leo Laporte (01:28:02):
Why I was wondering is just their way of it way. Do we do a car? You're gonna love it.

Andy Ihnatko (01:28:05):
It'll be BMW first though. Right? Like we all know it's gonna be BMW and

Leo Laporte (01:28:09):
Partner have, seem to have a partnership. Yeah. 

Rene Ritchie (01:28:12):
Speaking of, just ahead, speaking of personal preferences, though, if some, if that becomes like the norm for car design, they had better put so many controls on the steering wheel. Like a, like a I one racing wheel,

Leo Laporte (01:28:23):
But that's not what is doing. That's not what Tesla was doing.

Rene Ritchie (01:28:26):
Glass. Doesn't give you feedback. And when you're trying to, I agree. All you need, all you want to do is that you are freezing. You, you are boiling up in this crowd. We

Leo Laporte (01:28:33):
Model three next time. Yeah. Because model three, taking all those controls out, it's all. Well,

Andy Ihnatko (01:28:37):
You can play Galaga. I mean, you can play Galaga.

Leo Laporte (01:28:39):
What else do you need? Yeah. It's I think it's a big mistake. I agree with you. You need some physical controls and you get

Andy Ihnatko (01:28:43):
A yo,

Leo Laporte (01:28:44):
But remember, I think within apple car and, and what Apple's looking at down the road is a, is a driverless vehicle. Right? So, yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:28:50):
So the only thing I'd caution you, anyone Leo, is that the, the team that made CarPlay, I dunno if it's changed, but it was a springboard team. It wasn't the special projects group that does tighten. This

Leo Laporte (01:28:57):
Looks like springboard might

Andy Ihnatko (01:28:59):
Be philosophical. Yeah. Yeah. There might be philosophical similarities, but I wouldn't think that this is actual project Titan tech it's

Leo Laporte (01:29:04):
Leaking out is this, the Sam said that this is using projection, that this isn't a car OS Android has a car. Apple, Google has a car OS.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:14):
Yes. It's not an embedded system.

Leo Laporte (01:29:15):
This is not a, this

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:16):
Is not Titan would be, this is basically a handshake. So you come in your iPhone just

Leo Laporte (01:29:20):
Like CarPlay today. It's a projector.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:22):
Yeah. The car has a its own embedded system. Like whether it's Q and X or embedded Android or embedded Linnux or whatever it negotiates with your iPhone, it says, we've identified it. You have these capabilities. And then it, it takes the iPhones input and creates right. The CarPlay experience. And then it communicates back and forth to maintain it.

Leo Laporte (01:29:38):
I have to say I have it and I love it. <Laugh> I would never buy a car without it. So Apple's won me over.

Alex Lindsay (01:29:45):
Yeah. And, and I think that, again, the, the, the trajectory oftentimes with, with, or without an apple car is, is really that you get, all you should do is get one, one company to do it. Right. And then they show greater just like average sales.

Leo Laporte (01:29:58):
Yeah. Yeah. And

Alex Lindsay (01:29:58):
Then other people start to turn, then you start, you just, you just take the first one and you just start flipping them, you know, one at a time over and not all of them will go. They'll always be a choice to not have the apple, whatever. But the question is, is you know, but, but I think it could grow to, you know, a reasonable percentage over a decade, you know, of, of time. It's not like it's gonna happen, you know, immediately. And what's really interesting for apple is they're getting to eat their cake and have their cake and eat it too. They'll have, they might provide something for the cars. And at the same time they have a car, you know, but I don't think, I don't think these two initiatives have to be connected to each other at all. Like, you know, one is just making it available for all the cars. And the other one is trying to figure out if they wanna build a car.

Leo Laporte (01:30:33):
Let me take a little break here. We have more to talk about. Sorry, Andy. I'll get you. No, go ahead. First. When we come back, it's like jeopardy you start, you'll start with double jeopardy when we return. How about that?

Alex Lindsay (01:30:44):
Okay.

Andy Ihnatko (01:30:45):
Rock. I I've heard that. I've, I've heard that, that phrase in my, in context of my future before

Leo Laporte (01:30:50):
<Laugh> all show I' brought to you by Melissa. If you're in business, you know, those customer lists are so vital. They're so important, but you also probably know they are roting away on those hard drives right now because people move names, change addresses, email addresses, change, and poor data. Quality can cost you a lot. An average of 15 million a year. That's a lot of money. And of course the longer poor quality data stays in your system. The more losses you can accumulate. So to make your business success continue, you gotta keep your customer information up to date. And that's why you need Melissa leading provider of global data quality and address management solutions. It's also good for customer service, right? If you're on the line with a customer's upset already, and you say, oh, and you live in Miami, right? And they say, no, I live in Illinois.

Leo Laporte (01:31:49):
They, they're not gonna be happy. They're gonna really doubt your credibility. So it's important to have this information accurate Melissa's cloud based data, cleaning and enrichment tool is easy to use. You can upload a file, a CSV file, Excel file into the first tab. You copy and paste your data. Your CSV file into the second tab. You select a data quality service. You click next, you map the input fields. You say, yeah, that's the name? That's the address? Select the output fields, the data to append and process your list very easy. This is their cloud-based solution. They of course also have on-prem if you prefer that they even have apps, they have the lookups app on iOS and Android, which lets you search names addresses, and more right there in the, in the phone. You can, you can get batch address cleaning, which will process an entire address list for accuracy and completeness.

Leo Laporte (01:32:44):
You can use data matching to eliminate clutter and duplicates, which will save you money in postage, right name verification, which actually is really important these days for security, if nothing else parse and standardized first and last names for personalization, Melissa could do so much with this data. You can use, you can analyze your data to improve quality over time. You can verify up to 95% of bad email addresses right from the database. And of course your data is absolutely secure with Melissa. They continually undergo independent security audits because they're committed to data security, privacy and compliance. They're SOC two HIPAA GDPR compliant. I'm sure that'll help. That'll that reassures you, right? Melissa is an experienced independent company that has 37 years of data quality expertise. They've been doing this a long time, more than 10,000 businesses know Melissa as the address experts. And man is that support.

Leo Laporte (01:33:45):
Great. If you sign up for a service level agreement, 24 7 world famous support from their global support center. So make sure your customer contact date is up to date. Get started today with 1000 records cleaned for free melissa.com/twi melissa.com/twit. We thank 'em so much for their support of MacBreak Weekly and you support us by the way. It's really important when you use that special address, cuz that way they know you saw it here, melissa.com/twi. I want to thank our supporters and club twit who have really helped us dramatically during the ups and downs. Now that my Bitcoin wallet is worth a third of what it was worth before we need you. So that's a joke obviously, cuz the Bitcoin wallet is inaccessible, but we do try to make it worthwhile $7 a month to join club TWI. There's an annual fee annual fee as well.

Leo Laporte (01:34:40):
If you wanna do it that way, annual subscription, there's also corporate subscriptions. You get ad free versions of all the shows. So because you're giving us money seven bucks a month, which is not much, we don't need to play ads for you. You also get a new feed, the TWI plus feed with all sorts of bonus content and my favorite benefit maybe cuz I'm active in there. And I love it is the, the discord. We have a special members only discord because it's members only, it's a great place to hang a great socialization area. You don't have to just talk about the shows by the way we have everything also is in there from cryptocurrency to travel to photography. So that, and by the way, our book club's coming up Thursday, I'm gonna host that with aunt and I think John's gonna join us cuz John and I are loving Neil.

Leo Laporte (01:35:27):
Stevenson's latest. It's called termination shock. So Stacy Higginbotham's book club is at 9:00 AM. If you're a club member, we'll give a we actually have a, a zoom address you can go to and then that way you can participate in it. Fireside chat for members hosted by aunt coming up in July, July 7th and a certain Alex Lindsay is gonna be doing and ask me anything on July 14th, we're doing a lot of events. We are announcing a new show very soon. I think you'll be very excited about really gonna be gonna be something. I think a lot of people will want, we're gonna use club TWI to start up shows with that, that don't have enough listeners to do advertising support. And I want, I think we're gonna end up doing a lot more of that. That's how this weekend space started. Of course now they have advertising support. So we really appreciate your contribution club. TWI, thank you in advance. Go to twit.tv/club TWI. Let's see here. What else have we to talk about? Well, the, the Dutch dating apps apparently have gained some ground in this. <Laugh> never ending. We are always at war with Dutch dating apps. <Laugh> never ending battle

Alex Lindsay (01:36:40):
The, the, the red light district of Amsterdam rejoices.

Leo Laporte (01:36:44):
Ah, yeah. Apple has updated rules, which so far the Dutch regulator seems to have approved of that's really good news. So apple will meet the requirements set under European and Dutch competition rules. They say the rules only affect Dutch dating apps <laugh> but it gives you some idea of what apple will do with given enough pressure. They're going to they're going, they change the language to say your payment app, your payment will, this is what the user will see when they look at the app. Your payment will be managed by the developer. You'll no longer be transit acting with apple. All purchases will be processed by a service provider selected by the developer. The developer will be responsible for the payment methods and related features such as subscriptions and funds. App store features such as your stored app store payment method, subscription management and refund requests will not be available.

Leo Laporte (01:37:44):
See, that's the best part of the app store is I can cancel subscriptions. I love that. Before they would see buttons that say continue or cancel. Now, they say, I understand <laugh> however you say that in Dutch they won't have to choose between a third party in-app payment or an external payment link. They can use both if they want. They'll also be able to show how much something will cost. Apple used to have a rule saying the link to the external payment could not include the price of the items available on the website. In other words, it's, you know, 30% less or whatever, actually won't be that much, 3% less anyway,

Rene Ritchie (01:38:24):
But we, we could, but this is, this is one of the areas that of Apple's business that I've always, always thought was overdue for revolution that I'm not just talk, I'm not really necessarily talking about external payment systems, but I'm talking about you have, so they have so many rules for their developers that are just asinine such as no you, no, you can't link back to your own site. No, no, no, no. You can't make special op no, you can't talk to these people at all. You have to go, go through us at all times. You don't have no, no, no. We're not gonna let you learn anything about the customers who are using your own. There are a lot of stuff that is just again, when you're not, when you've never launched an app store before and you don't know how well this is gonna turn out and you're just talking about things that maybe would be good for you and good for the app store in a, in a boardroom that's one thing. But AF we have so, so much experience that these all just seemed, you know,

Leo Laporte (01:39:09):
Somebody in the chat very and silly says that I don't know how true this is, but in the Netherlands, women are much more likely to ask you out. So you don't really need a dating app. These are mostly just for professionals. I don't know if that's true. Maybe somebody from the Netherlands could tell us what's the case. What's the case here, but it was match.com all of those match apps that we're complaining, the Dutch dating, dating apps, I'll start doing scare quotes. When I say that dating apps <laugh> apple has made a deal with major league soccer. I don't know. Yes and no. All, all MLS matches around the world for the next 10 years will be available in an app that's available only on the apple TV or

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:56):
It's not Syria. Alio, it's not like, you know, you're still gonna be able to watch your Manchester United like this. This is north American.

Leo Laporte (01:40:01):
Yeah. MLS like rough.

Alex Lindsay (01:40:04):
Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:40:04):
No, I'm just saying like

Alex Lindsay (01:40:06):
Slammed. If

Andy Ihnatko (01:40:07):
It was premier league people would be rioting. Yeah, no, but if it was premier league, people would be

Alex Lindsay (01:40:10):
Rioting and, and I believe it's, it'll be, you know, apple TV also. I believe it'll be the apple TV app on lot of it's

Leo Laporte (01:40:16):
The app. So your Roku, wherever else you have the apple TV app.

Alex Lindsay (01:40:19):
Yeah. Yeah. So

Leo Laporte (01:40:21):
Like

Andy Ihnatko (01:40:21):
Summer free,

Leo Laporte (01:40:22):
But it is an app within the app. Right? So it's like having an Netflix app. It'll be an MLS app inside your apple TV app. Yeah. Is that how it works? If you have an apple

Alex Lindsay (01:40:32):
TV app? I don't know. I don't, I don't use those. So I don't let my TV connect to my, I don't, I don't let my TV, if you know anything about surveillance, never connect your TV, especially has voice control. Never, ever. Yeah. Connect your TV to, to the internet anyway. But the the, what I, it's gonna be really good for. I mean, there's gonna be people that are set that they have to buy an apple TV, but for MLS, it's gonna be really good. They're gonna get a lot more exposure. They're gonna be available in a lot more places to watch it. You know, they're and they got a big check, you know? So, so I think that they, for MLS, for the, for, for the players, they're gonna get a lot more exposure cuz now you can, what's it revolutionary here is that you can now watch any game anywhere <laugh>, you know, there. And so you're not, you don't have all these windowing and all the other things that, that go on. I mean, I, you know, you can pay for the NFL app or the NFL streaming or whatever, and then you still can't watch the game you wanna watch, right. Still black hats. You like, it's just complete. It's a complete, you know, so

Leo Laporte (01:41:28):
There'll be no local blackouts. There will be an, if you're an apple TV plus subscriber you will get a certain number of free MLS and league cup matches, which is nice. So that's gonna help promote, I think soccer in the us and then you can pay and get the full streaming package.

Alex Lindsay (01:41:48):
It also potentially allows apple to innovate because they're the only ones broadcasting. And so a lot of like, what you can do at a stream on a stream is limited by the broadcasters. Cause they're way behind, you know, so they're at like 10 80. I, and you know, all this other, you know, rooms, I'm

Leo Laporte (01:42:03):
Seeing more 4k content on my YouTube TV, which is great. Cause I pay for the 4k add on there's a lot more 4k content that than there used

Alex Lindsay (01:42:11):
To be. And, and, but, but now Apple's gonna be, they could go, they could do like, this is a great place to do. 4K 4k, 60 4k, one 20, all things that, that bro, you could never broadcast down, but apple can do. And now they can, they have something that they can show. So MLS,

Leo Laporte (01:42:27):
I wonder if they're gonna help with the production of it is like they, oh yeah,

Alex Lindsay (01:42:30):
Yeah. I bet you, they will. I would be

Leo Laporte (01:42:32):
Lasso team Leo,

Alex Lindsay (01:42:33):
Whoever did that. If they don't do it, whoever made the, whoever decided that should not be at apple anymore. I mean, because this is the huge lab for them to be able to, to take they takes and make it

Leo Laporte (01:42:45):
Good point. So

Alex Lindsay (01:42:45):
The, the, this is a, this is, they don't have to deal with anybody else. They don't have to work on trying to be to, to make it compatible with other devices. They can turn this thing all the way up and show what an apple TV can do. They can show how, how you would integrate sports with your AR or VR. They can show how to tie it into the phone. So it's a huge sales card and it's great for MLS because they're gonna look better than everybody else. I mean, cuz Apple's, if, if Apple's smart, they're just gonna dump a ton of money into, into this as an R and D to make it a showcase to then talk to MLB and NFL and, and well

Leo Laporte (01:43:18):
You we've already, I think we've talked about the USFL and what they're doing, their video production. Very interesting using drones. It's Eddie's name on the press release. It's not one of the TV people. Yeah. It's Eddie Q like Eddie's like super excited. Yeah. So the ML I'm reading from the press release the MLS live and on-demand content from the apple TV. Apple will be available. Anyone with internet access across all devices where the app can be found, iPhone, iPad, Mac, apple, TV, 4k, apple TV, HD, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Sony TCL vio, another smart TV's Amazon fire TV, Roku devices, PlayStation, Xbox gaming consoles Chromecast with Google TV, Comcast Xfinity, and in the browser@tv.apple.com.

Alex Lindsay (01:43:59):
And the, you gotta figure

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:59):
The Android app has to be coming though, right at this point, like there's a group of people inside Cupertino who have to make the ties in app of all things. So you've gotta imagine at some point they're gonna realize it's, it's just a money play to make the Android version.

Alex Lindsay (01:44:09):
The, the, the hard part is is that because apple can do this, you know, with, with their own devices, it'll actually, you know, you have all these people. I don't know if apple thought this far out, but you have all these people that have apple TV on all those devices that it cannot, they cannot do what the apple TV can do. So if you start pump you going, oh, by the way, if you're using an apple TV or an apple device, you can watch it in 4k one 20, but not on any of the devices that, that are out there because they don't have the horsepower to do that. That's complicated. You know, like that's a, that's a really complicated thing for a lot of folks, but now a lot of those TVs might be able to do it, but I can tell you as someone who streams to those TVs, that I doubt it. <Laugh> like, I doubt that they can handle what, what the apple TV can handle as far as what apple could push down that pipe, which could then be, you know, a pretty, pretty interesting pin Piper.

Leo Laporte (01:45:00):
Eddie Q says for the first time in the history of sports, I mean, I wanna know what the rest of the sentence says now for the first time in the history of sports fans will be able to access everything from major professional sports league in one place. I, it had to be with MLS. Yeah. Premier leagues would never have made this deal. Right. They don't need to, but MLS, it needs

Andy Ihnatko (01:45:24):
More serious or, or Theia. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:45:26):
Yeah. I feel, I feel like this is similar to when apple launched the iPhone, they could not have gotten the sort of concessions they got from at and T they couldn't have gotten them from Verizon at and T was on at a really sensitive transitional point in their company history that they needed a huge catastrophic hit. If there's such a thing as a catastrophic hit success and they were desperate enough or needy enough to say yes, all these things that go contrary to what the traditional relationship between a device manufacturer and a carrier has been, we're willing to get rid of all of that. MLS is willing to simply say, yes, we will put things in your hands. Yes. We will give you whatever you want. Yes. We will run the way, run things the way you will. Yes. We will give you exclusivity. And this is the sort of thing you can do when you are targeting sports with a smaller audience. Also con the let let's not also, let's also not assume that Apple's going to be 100% successful with all those. I think this is gonna be some new ground for them as well. One of the reasons why they could not try this with the NFL MLB premier league is that if they, the, the moment that someone brings their own device to this service and suddenly they can't see the world cup that's,

Rene Ritchie (01:46:35):
That's you think that you, you think that the air tags have been creating PR problems for apple, this would be just people setting fire to Mac their own max in the street that, well,

Andy Ihnatko (01:46:44):
The MLB app outages in the early days, remember those, like when the very first couple years of MLB apps and they went out, people

Leo Laporte (01:46:49):
Were just, they're getting better, by the way, with MLB, I haven't,

Andy Ihnatko (01:46:53):
They have the best streaming people in, well, they had the best streaming people in the world and they got bought up. Right. That whole engine got brought up and

Leo Laporte (01:46:58):
Bought up. No, I understand Friday night games. Are those any better? Cuz they were not. I was, oh, apples. Yeah. I don't watch

Alex Lindsay (01:47:04):
Anymore. I watched the first couple and I was like, well, this is really slow. Like this is really, it's slow for baseball, you know? And so yeah. So the I, I think that it, it, they, they're still working on it, I think, but I think that the I think MLB, I mean, MLS has a lot of opportunity there there's there is a pretty fervent crowd that, that is are big fans. Absolutely. and so I think that that's, and there's a lot of leagues out there that apple could do this with, you know, this is they can't NFL, MLB NBA, you know, premier league. Those are probably not the ones that they could do, but there are other ones that apple could fill up a, you know, a fairly large number of, of these. And it puts, it can allow them five years from now to put pressure on, you know, to make better deals with MLB, you know, I, I think that by the end of the decade, you know, the broadcasters won't have access to the games. It's just, you know, the, the streamers are gonna, you know, out outgun them. And so they're, you know, so it's, this is just the beginning.

Leo Laporte (01:47:58):
If you wanted to watch tonight's Seattle Sounders versus the Vancouver white caps game, you'd have to subscribe to ESPN plus and blackout restrictions may apply and access requirements may vary by streaming service. It's not a good experience right now.

Alex Lindsay (01:48:14):
I mean, I, I wanted to watch every Steeler game and, and I have, I, I had to sign up in India and then get a VPN <laugh>, you know, to, so that I could watch every Steeler game because they were some were blacked out in Europe and some were blacked out in the United States. And so, so finally, I finally figured out that if I get vanish, whatever IP or whatever, I could just watch it coming streaming to me from Mumbai as I VPN into a server. That's the only way I could watch.

Leo Laporte (01:48:40):
Does it have American, does it have the same announcers, the American announcers or yes,

Alex Lindsay (01:48:42):
It's a regular game. It's I've

Leo Laporte (01:48:43):
Game preferred if they had the Indian announcers would

Alex Lindsay (01:48:46):
No, that would be

Leo Laporte (01:48:46):
Really fun. I think it would be great

Alex Lindsay (01:48:48):
Trying to figure

Leo Laporte (01:48:48):
Out what game is. It doesn't look like cricket at all. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (01:48:52):
That would be great

Rene Ritchie (01:48:53):
Dancing.

Leo Laporte (01:48:55):
Soccer has tried and tried to try in the us to, to make any headway. And that's not surprising that since the success, the surprising success of Ted lasso that maybe apple thinks, yeah. Maybe we

Alex Lindsay (01:49:06):
Can the tie. Yeah. Think of the tie ins with Ted lasso. They can think they could, they can

Leo Laporte (01:49:11):
Maybe we could be the ones that put this over

Alex Lindsay (01:49:15):
Games, fun to watch the whole

Leo Laporte (01:49:16):
Thing. I love soccer, but I could see that if you're a football fan, it's like you've been eating, you know, spicy salsa your whole life. And somebody says

Andy Ihnatko (01:49:24):
80 minutes

Leo Laporte (01:49:25):
In, no place have, have a planter's cheese ball. It's just <laugh>. Yeah. It goes, it's kind of slow. <Laugh> you've,

Alex Lindsay (01:49:32):
You've

Rene Ritchie (01:49:32):
Been lining, been the lining a wonderful, beautiful,

Leo Laporte (01:49:35):
But I want your cheese balls

Rene Ritchie (01:49:37):
That, that beautiful. Can, can I point title, can I point also presents 2% of the daily requirement of calcium in every really complete end of this. So if you

Leo Laporte (01:49:47):
Ate a hundred daily requirements, orange, you'd be all full up. You'd turn orange. Yeah. But you, yeah. You have all the cancer at calcium <laugh> I think though, yeah. That point in lepto what did I say?

Rene Ritchie (01:49:59):
4% of calcium iron

Leo Laporte (01:50:03):
Whoop. Anyway, I think, yeah, I think this is interesting. It makes sense that it's MLS makes sense that it's apple. And I don't think given that it's hard to see these games, otherwise people are gonna complain. You're still gonna get a certain number of free games. I think that if you still need cricket,

Alex Lindsay (01:50:20):
I think that the thing is, is that there is if, if apple takes it and, and the reason I think that they may turn it into a big lab is because they're do, they are turning MLB into a lab, MLB Fridays, they're doing their own thing and they're not doing it perfectly yet. I mean the streaming quality's fine, but the, the commentary and the content, but they're experimenting with that. If they do MLS and they really dig into it to make it

Leo Laporte (01:50:45):
Good.

Alex Lindsay (01:50:45):
Yeah. And they're not constrained by anything and they just turn it up and then they could add tons of graphics and tons of other things. And, you know, and cuz they can spend money that MLS could never spend on a, on a show. And not even, I don't even know if they applicants spend money that the NFL can't spend. Right. No,

Leo Laporte (01:50:59):
I, I bet you the owners up it up and down on this one. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:51:03):
Alsos, huge, huge firm running.

Rene Ritchie (01:51:04):
The, the other big deal is that I think before I've been talking about how gee, I wish that I think that would be a great opportunity for apple to invest in women's sports and to basically to be like the, the concierge and the, the, the, the go to place, the go to channel the go-to device for right agree. And I mean, I was, I mean, I was surprised to like, I'm surprised to find that w N B 2020 in 2022 NBA games are gonna be on ABC, ESPN, ESPN, two, CBS, CBS sports net network and NBA TV, which sounds great, cuz it's available in a lot of places. But if you are a customer of ESPN, how aware of you of when the games are and when the season is, whereas if apple only has like has only invested in like two or three leagues and essentially every like everyone is getting noticed is on notice through just little blurbs, little whatever is on the, on the app that by the way New York Liberty is playing tonight, uh're there are, there are number three in this league there. And that the championship was coming up in about, about a month that would get so much more attention than not being aware that, oh, it's not, there's no dancing with the stars tonight because of NB, N w NBAs on that's never gonna happen.

Leo Laporte (01:52:10):
Speaking of cricket, <laugh> actually today Indian cricket broadcast rights, the premier league fetched, the largest price ever for a sports franchise, 6.2 billion for broadcast rights, $6.2 billion. Yeah. Television rights went to star India, the local Disney subsidiary for 3 billion and digital rights went to Viacom 18, which is a joint venture between paramount and in an Indian company. Also 3 billion, both deals for five years. So there you go. You know,

Alex Lindsay (01:52:52):
And, and by the way, when you talk about w B a it expires this year.

Leo Laporte (01:52:57):
Oh, that's sad.

Alex Lindsay (01:52:59):
So no, no, no, no. It's no,

Leo Laporte (01:53:00):
It's tough. An opportunity. Oh they're oh, they're contract does. Oh, good. Yeah. So

Alex Lindsay (01:53:05):
You see this kind of this

Leo Laporte (01:53:06):
Gonna be so smart for apple, wouldn't it be? Yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:53:09):
And, and also use w w N B a players like in their, in their promotions. So hire them, hire them for apple fitness, hire them. Yep. It would be such an exciting bit of synergy. But getting, getting back to cricket that also, that also just demonstrates how a unique aspect of Apple's marketing and deals can be because the iPhone is a monster product with monster saturation in the United States of America, Android is still absolutely the dominant phone, everywhere else in the world. And in play other places, it is really the iPhone of that country. And if you if you, if they apple try to make that same move towards cricket and say, guess what? You have to make sure that your at your Android apps are, if anything, better than the iPhone app, cuz that's how most people are going to be watching this on mobile. This is how they're gonna be streaming it on devices, on, on TV. Yeah, exactly. That that would be, see that it's, it's an interesting problem for them to be facing unless they have a good, $130 phone

Leo Laporte (01:54:09):
O dear and number of people, miss the show title should be, I want Andy's cheese balls, except that last week the show title was blowing CHTA. And I don't, I don't want people to think that we're owned by the Wisconsin cheese association, cheese lobby. I'm saying

Rene Ritchie (01:54:23):
Unless, unless, unless they, unless doesn't we become a formal supporter and advertising.

Leo Laporte (01:54:27):
That's true. Exactly. I mean, who doesn't love cheese? I'm sorry, Wisconsin. You said Rene, you started with, I would be Remis and then I cut you off. Go ahead. I

Andy Ihnatko (01:54:36):
Said I would be, I, I would be very miss as a and if I didn't mention that the rugby rights would be great for one of apple to

Leo Laporte (01:54:41):
Rugby stock

Andy Ihnatko (01:54:43):
Stock is a gentleman's game. Played by hooligans and rugby is a hooligans game. Played by gentleman

Leo Laporte (01:54:47):
<Laugh> I actually think Ossie rules, football footy is not osie rules. Football's footy is the best sport I have ever seen, which is a little bit of football, little bit of rugby football, much better. We

Andy Ihnatko (01:54:59):
Have three, three downs and it's a kickers game. Leo really it's more exciting than that. Yes.

Leo Laporte (01:55:03):
<Laugh> two kickers called the rough writers to tell you something right there. Yes. 

Andy Ihnatko (01:55:08):
Two teams called the rough writers. Exactly. They changed that, but it took forever.

Leo Laporte (01:55:10):
Australian rules. Football is played by good looking fellas in short shorts without pads. Yeah. These guys at the bottom, this is the craziest game ever. It's amazing.

Alex Lindsay (01:55:23):
I used to work for prime sports network. I was an ad designer for them. And the, the only thing I watched at prime sports network, because we had, you know, you had access to all those sports coming in was Austral, Oscar football.

Leo Laporte (01:55:33):
What I, I just, I idea what I love, but I was like, I love this. Oh, I it's.

Rene Ritchie (01:55:36):
I, I, I love the end zone. I love the end zone referees and they're like hat special, little white hats and white coats. We just go

Leo Laporte (01:55:44):
<Laugh>.

Rene Ritchie (01:55:44):
Have you seen touchdown?

Andy Ihnatko (01:55:46):
Have you seen Invictus?

Leo Laporte (01:55:48):
No. Is it, is it featured in Invictus?

Andy Ihnatko (01:55:51):
Invictus is rugby. It's the game between Zealand. Oh, intu Africa. South Africa.

Leo Laporte (01:55:55):
Oh yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:55:56):
Yeah. With Jonna lamo who could basically run over people. I've never seen an athlete who could, except for Michael Jordan who could jump over people. Jon lamo could just run over people. It was amazing. And it was right after I'm

Alex Lindsay (01:56:06):
Pretty sure his son was on, on YouTube. Have you seen the, by the

Leo Laporte (01:56:09):
Way here, suggest Andy was talking about when they, when they square a goal, watch this, watch this,

Alex Lindsay (01:56:19):
You man.

Leo Laporte (01:56:20):
Just it's just like a little point or something. I don't, I don't understand that.

Alex Lindsay (01:56:28):
I like, I prefer, I really like the, I really like the pre show. The pre-show for the in New Zealand is,

Leo Laporte (01:56:34):
Ah,

Rene Ritchie (01:56:34):
The pregame

Alex Lindsay (01:56:35):
Is pretty.

Rene Ritchie (01:56:36):
I gotta say the Rene is absolutely right about rugby because it's like one of my favorite clips I've ever seen or memes I've seen on the internet ever is comparing like a premier league soccer with like college league rugby <laugh> cause there's a clip of, of someone like running by a soccer player and the soccer player waiting a second, then throwing himself to the ground like, whoa, oh my knee. Oh my knee. Then immediately after a, a, a women's women's collegiate rugby of basically a woman just getting boom nutted, pasted, head, head to head to the head to face and she's full. And she sees slow motion of her just walking, like not off the field, but down the field, like spitting out blood and just like looking back at that person again,

Leo Laporte (01:57:22):
Let's play, let's play.

Rene Ritchie (01:57:24):
I'm fine. People are like, do my, you are more tough than I 10, 10, you know, a thousand years after I've been buried and turned to granite, I will not be as tough. Yeah. As anyone plays watching on any level.

Leo Laporte (01:57:39):
Well remember, remember

Andy Ihnatko (01:57:40):
Movie Matt Damon's in it.

Leo Laporte (01:57:42):
Yeah. I, so the movie. Okay. So the movie is related. All right. Good. All right. No, I will watch the movie. Yeah. Of course Becky Worley, who we love and she's good morning. America's tech reporter and was my producer for years at tech TV was on the us women's rugby team. And I believe, I don't know at last count, I think she had had five or six knee replacements just like, but tough as nails. Right. and she said, actually, you wouldn't couldn't there. She said to me, you wouldn't like me. If I didn't play rugby, I get all my aggression. <Laugh>,

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:14):
It's more brutal, but it's safer because they're not wearing pads, so they know their limits, but they, like, it's just, it's a really interesting combination of, of human will and understanding of your own frailty.

Leo Laporte (01:58:22):
Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, apple go out and buy the, buy the rights. They can't be expensive. The us rights to footy <laugh> or rugby. But I think footy is really the game to me.

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:35):
Alex's port seeing the haka internationally would be so

Leo Laporte (01:58:37):
Good. Oh, wouldn't that be good? So good. Yeah. 

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:41):
Watching haka with, I would watch a whole channel of that.

Leo Laporte (01:58:43):
<Laugh> let's see, what else is going on? I feel like there must be other things to talk about apple headset, closer to reality, according to the elect, which has always got some strange stories because LG display is ordering micro OLET equipment because they want, they want the, the deal, according to the elect,

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:10):
It's an industry. Right. You know, they they'll print whatever Samsung and LG think is convenient for their negotiations. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:59:15):
Well, but that says L so maybe LG planet. It effect they probably did. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's good. They said, we don't know if Apple's got a virtual reality headset coming, but we're gonna buy this equipment. So, you know,

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:26):
We don't have the contract. So we're gonna

Leo Laporte (01:59:28):
Say that we're ready for it. Yeah. We're ready for it. We're gonna be we're ready. Here we go. Apple music and gaming. I think this is ridiculous, but you know, we're at the bottom of the barrel here, according to JP Morgan to bring in over 8 billion in revenue by 2025 services alone. Bringing what? 11 billion last quarter. Yeah. So surprising. I don't know if that's saying much, cuz that's a 36% jump over the next four, three or four years. Maybe I think it's probably gonna be more innate billion. That's what I'm gonna say. Leo Laport said in his note to subscribers, my analysts note,

Alex Lindsay (02:00:05):
I think we should all get, we should all guess.

Leo Laporte (02:00:07):
Yeah. What 25 let's let's we'll get on record here.

Alex Lindsay (02:00:10):
Someone's gotta write it down. Someone's gotta write it down. Cause a couple.

Leo Laporte (02:00:12):
So revenue, some shows not even not profits revenue from gaming and music by 2025, I say 11 billion. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:00:25):
Just, I say 9.6 billion.

Leo Laporte (02:00:27):
<Laugh> okay. Andy, you wanna play this stupid game? <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (02:00:31):
I think that dunking donuts is gonna make a really good buyout offer

Alex Lindsay (02:00:35):
For gotta give a number

Rene Ritchie (02:00:37):
And they're gonna cause all that mall real estate is very, very available. I don't think Apple's gonna be around then. Now I'm saying that you can cut. Please, please cut it right there for the clip. Because if I'm right, I will look like the most God like business order ever. I will be able to take that crap to the lecture circuit

Leo Laporte (02:00:54):
Fan <laugh> the two services are likely to have a combined subscriber base of 180 million by 2025, which this is, you know, it's hysterical reading after reading the trip, Kel book about how kind of the apple music thing was kind of this weird, you know, they weren't sure they wanted to do it. Blah blah. Now 110 subscribers for mu music, 70 million for gaming. That's a arcade. They're talking about arcade. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Andy Ihnatko (02:01:20):
Yeah. And the wall street loves it. Cause they understand it. They understand recurring revenue much

Leo Laporte (02:01:24):
Easier than they understand hardware. They really do. Yeah. Yeah. So a we, yeah, they

Alex Lindsay (02:01:29):
Love it for a reason because it's really a good business model.

Leo Laporte (02:01:32):
Yeah. It's recurring revenue. Yeah. It's green

Alex Lindsay (02:01:34):
Revenue and the, and the loss is, is pretty low. I mean,

Andy Ihnatko (02:01:39):
Previously they had like the gambler's paradox where it's like, okay, apple had a hit with the iPhone, but they'll never have another one. Okay. Fine. The iPad too. That just makes it even less likely they'll have another okay. Fine. Apple watch. Okay. AirPods. But they'll never gonna have another one you can't convince me otherwise. And, and the revenue, but subscriptions are much easier to understand. It's just money every month.

Rene Ritchie (02:01:55):
Yeah. Rene, just a, just a, a technical note. When you took off your apple VR goggles, you left them face down and the light is sort of giving you an up like

Leo Laporte (02:02:05):
<Laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (02:02:05):
That's, that's the eight, 10 mini, but I'm trying fix it. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:02:09):
Sure you the, the, I like the glow though. I wink wink Uhhuh. It's that 14.1 inch iPad. That's really blasting him. <Laugh> no,

Andy Ihnatko (02:02:19):
That's not high definition enough.

Leo Laporte (02:02:20):
Yeah. Damn.

Rene Ritchie (02:02:21):
He's he's really not easy to fool. He really is.

Andy Ihnatko (02:02:23):
Although the iPad, did you see that the iPad got high definition scale or not high density scaling? So now you, I

Leo Laporte (02:02:28):
Thought that was, tell me me what that means. So the iPad runs it doubled. Is it doubled resolution? Was it

Andy Ihnatko (02:02:34):
It's not quite doubled. It's it's display scaling. So you basically get it's like on the Mac, if you go into the Mac and you switch it away from best for retina and you just put it towards like maximum number this does the same thing. So instead of trying to match the resolution of the retina display, it just gives you as many pixels as it possibly can within the iPad frame.

Leo Laporte (02:02:51):
And that's because the text gets really small is not one for one, because if it did it, would everything be tiny. Yeah. So they do not quite doubling, which is weird. I would think that they would wanna for scaling reasons they'd want to be on a, it would

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:03):
Be so small though. It would be like the interventions would be so small.

Leo Laporte (02:03:08):
No, but this is interesting. So if you got, you got four windows open, you've got stage manager running and it's small, you got room for it. That's the thing that's always liquid. When I look at like stage manager, that's a big chunk of the 

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:20):
Real estate. Yeah. Yeah. Are you sure you want it because maybe you got saved.

Rene Ritchie (02:03:25):
Yeah. But, but it would also be super interesting if you are running like three or four virtualized systems at all from that same screen, that true. Which just something I've seen, a lot of people have, the beta are now using it for virtualization of, and they they're loving stage manager, how it allows them to keep 'em on top of basically use three different operating systems on the iPad and,

Leo Laporte (02:03:42):
And you just tap the window you want and it zooms to the doubled size. And then zooms back out to the small sign. Rene, are you running the developer beers of any of this stuff?

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:50):
Yes. I'm I put 'em all on my main devices. Like I tell everybody not to do

Leo Laporte (02:03:53):
Crazy man.

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:53):
Otherwise I wouldn't use, but otherwise I would not use them enough. And then I wouldn't feel like my opinions were valid.

Leo Laporte (02:03:58):
I don't, I don't, I love the report too much on people who, you know, there's there reviews and stuff, but this is very early days. This isn't even the public beta. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (02:04:06):
Technically you're not allowed. So like I respect NDAs from apple because I feel like if I break my wor like if people think it's an excuse to break NDAs with apple, then why would any developer trust me? And they explicitly say, you shouldn't be sharing screenshots or like, it's, it's a beta. It's gonna be buggy. Like, like it's not the final experience. Craig said that too, that a lot of things are still coming as we get towards June. So I always wait for the public beta, which has a very different a very different policy applied to it. And even then it's like, these are these, aren't my, this isn't my review. This is just like my experience using it so far. So I'm very careful to differentiate that kind of stuff.

Leo Laporte (02:04:38):
So apple insider had you know, Apple's Mac O S Ventura, beta review, great new features. But some concerns, I, you know, I read it, but I read it with a huge grain of salt because this, of course it's not done.

Andy Ihnatko (02:04:51):
It's like reviewing the, the, the rough cut of a movie. Yeah. Which like, okay. But doesn't yeah.

Rene Ritchie (02:04:57):
I mean, people, I saw people on social media complain that, oh my God, I've had the beta and it's run so slowly on my iPad. And it's like, it is wired up for so many things. It's not gonna be doing when it finally gets,

Leo Laporte (02:05:09):
They're

Andy Ihnatko (02:05:09):
Running debug code.

Leo Laporte (02:05:09):
They're not supposed to be writing this circle and they're not supposed to share these screenshots. They're violating their NDA to do that. I don't have any, like, I

Andy Ihnatko (02:05:17):
Guess it depends like, like people, like you get reminded, like when you're act, when you're at dub dub, you get reminded that, you know, like, like, dude, this is not like, we don't want people sharing, but like, people don't seem to care anymore. Like that way it was much more of a thing. And apple was much more stringent about it a few years ago. There's

Leo Laporte (02:05:32):
Still composition to be first to good on you. Yeah. For not falling. 

Andy Ihnatko (02:05:37):
I don't have to be first Leo. I realized that a while ago, I don't have to cover all this stuff. I can be very selective.

Rene Ritchie (02:05:42):
I I'm just amazed at the idea that look, I, I promised, I promised not to do this thing, but that doesn't matter. I'm gonna do this thing anyway. You have the option of not, do not promise. Not, not promising, not signing the NDA, not taking the software, not taking the advanced hardware. It's just that simple. Yeah. Anyway,

Leo Laporte (02:05:57):
Well, I'll

Andy Ihnatko (02:05:58):
Run. The's exhausting. Like you feel like you're desperate to get everything up three minutes before it goes live. And it's just like, I couldn't live like

Leo Laporte (02:06:03):
That. It'll kill you. That's somebody's game. Give you a heart attack. When

Andy Ihnatko (02:06:08):
You also become a commodity, nobody cares anymore about you. They only care about who had it first and they'll just go to someone else next time. That's right. So you're not building any equity in your own work

Leo Laporte (02:06:14):
Either. You're not public beta that might be different will probably, I I've given the new features of iPad OS I really think I'm gonna probably put the public beta on my iPad pro

Rene Ritchie (02:06:24):
That it's not, it's not my phone, so I

Leo Laporte (02:06:27):
I'm

Rene Ritchie (02:06:27):
Definitely gonna take private public base on

Leo Laporte (02:06:28):
The iPad. Yeah. a lot of people are talking about, I haven't watched it yet, but there's a conversation in our TWI forums, theta community about John Oliver. He did a thing on tech monopolies on Sunday. Did any of you see it?

Andy Ihnatko (02:06:44):
I didn't see it.

Leo Laporte (02:06:44):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (02:06:45):
It's usually blocked in Canada until we get it officially.

Leo Laporte (02:06:48):
Oh really? Yeah. That's yeah. That's we have a Canadian P holder says sad to report. <Laugh> cannot see it. The the video is not available in my country. It is available in Germany. However and in fact, big D who lives is a Brit living in Germany and our and is a very active member of the forum says, just watch any TWI or twit from the last five years, you'll get the same message or as Jeff would shout moral panic. Well, anyway, just to mention number of people in the shower, I'm also talking about it. So I thought it's bring that up. Anything else? What else are we gonna talk about here? Anything else to say is the new iPad gonna have an XDR display mini L E D? If that rumor is true, that would be wouldn't it or could be,

Andy Ihnatko (02:07:33):
I guess it depends on which one, the 20 they're talking about the 20, 22

Leo Laporte (02:07:35):
Point 20. Yeah. This, this rumored 14 inch. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (02:07:38):
Although probably not the 11, because like, it it's expensive. Like I think apple wants to keep the price of the entry level, iPad pro low, and that adds a hundred bucks to it.

Leo Laporte (02:07:46):
Right, right. Here's here's an animated gift. Once again, just so you know, <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (02:07:52):
See, see, see if you get, see if you can get it from like the 1990s. Cause they used, they used to dress like, like, like butcher, like well-dressed butchers with like a white lab coat and a white like Stetson <laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:08:06):
I think, I think, I think, I think it needs to be an animated emoji of you, you know, just that just does that, you know, like anytime you wanna send back. Yes. I like it to somebody. That's it. Send it back.

Leo Laporte (02:08:14):
And Andy, you have some competition for your planters. Apparently. I didn't know. This UTS makes a giant <laugh> oh yeah. Giant cheese ball. Barlow cheese balls.

Rene Ritchie (02:08:27):
Yeah. See that. I I've I've seen those and that would put a lot of stress in my life. <Laugh> that? Like, not, not just, not just like, I, I wouldn't eat them all in one sitting, but even however long it would take me, even if it took me a month, it would be like, oh my God, I have this obligation to eat this immense rest. This is exactly the right amount of cheese balls. Like for three or four, like days, a little like snacking, as much as I like, as much as I like the, the, the, the, the name OS as a as a product name. Is that

Leo Laporte (02:08:53):
How you pronounce it? Oz

Rene Ritchie (02:08:54):
OS Iz. That's I for, if you have fun, it doesn't have Mr. Peanut though.

Leo Laporte (02:08:58):
No, you gotta have Mr. Peanut. What was Mr. Wait a minute. Didn't they kill Mr. Peanut? Like a couple of years ago. Did they bring him back?

Rene Ritchie (02:09:06):
That was in the tube. 4, 4, 1 universe here in six months. Sex. He's still

Leo Laporte (02:09:10):
Alive. Oh, good. Thank God. <Laugh> thanks to Reitz in our discord chat, who says Rene Ritchie, good video the M2 info. He really enjoyed it. Ah, so thank you. Thank you for that you've been doing a great job at youtube.com/Rene Ritchie, our picks of the week coming up next, but first a word from new Relic. If you're that person, you know, the one who's responsible. If the apps go down to the server, goes down to the cloud, goes down. You probably received that middle of the night phone call. You're fast asleep, the phone rings and suddenly something's broken. And then it's all on you to fix it. Your mind's racing. What could be wrong? Is it the back end? Is it the front end? Is it global? Is it the server? I hope I'm not giving you palpitations. You got your whole team scrambling, going from tool to tool messaging each other.

Leo Laporte (02:10:03):
Do you see it? I don't see it. Do you see it? Do you have slow one running queries? Is it the network? Is it the cloud? Did you introduce a bug in your last deploy? Well, you need new Relic. New Relic just did a survey. Only half of organizations of implemented observability for their networks and systems. That means half of all the engineers out there are suffering with just, you know, the fog of war, not knowing what's going on when something goes wrong. That won't happen. If you get new Relic, new Relic is actually 16 different monitoring tools. All in one place. Normally you'd buy 'em separately, but this way you could see the entire software stack in one place. You'll get among other things. Application monitoring, APM, which gives you unified monitoring for both apps and microservices. If you use Kubernetes, you'll love pixie instant Kubernetes of observability.

Leo Laporte (02:10:59):
You can get distributed, tracing, see all the traces without management headaches. So you can find and fix issues fast. You get network performance monitoring. So you don't have to guess where the performance issues start ditch the data silos, get a system wide correlated view. And most importantly, if you're a developer, you can pinpoint issues down to the line of code so you can know exactly why the problem happened and resolved quickly. And if it was some commit, you pushed five minutes ago, you can roll it back. That's why the dev and ops teams at DoorDash and GitHub and epic games, and more than 14,000 other companies use new Relic to bug and improve their software. It doesn't matter if you run a cloud native startup or a fortune 500 company, it'll only take five minutes to set up new Relic in your environment. And you know, you know that next middle of the night phone call is just out there just waiting to happen. Get new Relic before it does, you'll get access to the whole new Relic platform and a hundred gigabytes of data free a month, absolutely free. You don't even need to give 'em a credit card, use the entire platform and get a hundred gigs of data free every month forever.

Leo Laporte (02:12:16):
That's a pretty good way to start. Sign up now. New relic.com/mac break, N E w R E L I c.com/mac break. I know when you go to conferences, people are talking about it. I know you've heard from your colleagues. Don't be the one who doesn't know what's going on. Find out right now. And the next time that middle of the night call happens. New relic.com/mac break free forever, no credit card required. Great way to start new relic.com/mac break pick of the week time, let's start with Rene Ritchie this week.

Andy Ihnatko (02:12:50):
So I'm being a little, a little selfish this week, Leo and making a plea on, on behalf of myself and my nation for everybody's help with a new law that they're trying to pass. That was intended originally to bring streaming providers like paramount plus and Disney plus and Netflix into the Canadian broadcast act, which if you're not familiar, that does things like, like mandate a certain amount of Canadian contents and investment in Canada and Canadian artists, which is great because you know, those, those services serve Canadians. And it's nice if they reflect back our culture and our voices to us, but special interest, is that a good way to put it? The traditional media companies don't like that, that YouTube is user generated content and isn't regulated in that way. They believe it's unfair, even though we believe that we are a bunch of independent people and don't have the same resources and shouldn't have the same obligations that they have in order, like in terms of filling out paperwork to prove you're Canadian, which are things like you have to have either the director or the producers Canadian, you have to have a certain amount of the whole, like everything that you're familiar with from, from hosting Canadian television for, for quite a while, it's, it's, it's a lot.

Andy Ihnatko (02:13:57):
And also they want YouTube to change the way the algorithm works, so that it over it over samples, Canadian content to Canadians which is never a good thing algorithmically, because the way it works on YouTube is things YouTube suggests videos for you to watch based on what you've already watched. And if you don't click on things, it de accelerates those. So just giving people a bunch of content that they don't, that they're not interested in because of a certain, it comes from a certain place from a certain person is, is algorithmic malfeasance. And it would result in our videos probably being, you know I, I dunno what the right word for it is de accelerated throughout the platform. It would result in things like, you know, maybe KA creators being promoted over international creators, even if the quality of the video or the experience wasn't as good.

Andy Ihnatko (02:14:39):
And in general, it just, it seems like Canadian, YouTube is thriving. Two out of the three biggest tech, YouTube channels, unboxed therapy and Linus tech tips are Canadian. They we've gotten amazing creators, amazing voices internationally with no help, not even no regulation, but no help, like a lot of other businesses get. And it would be sad to see if my YouTube homepage no longer reflected my tastes, but reflected the taste of the Canadian government. So a bunch of, a bunch of YouTubers from Canada and a bunch of people who use YouTube and other platforms like TikTok and, and Instagram, and Twitch are getting together to try to tell the government that just specify that we're not included. We don't, we don't like, we don't want you to stop man, like mandating the broadcast broadcasters, screaming, otherwise do certain things, but just carve us out. So we don't have to live with this sort of Damocles over our head going forward,

Leo Laporte (02:15:29):
Michael Geist, who is a great attorney in Canada. And I got to know him when we were working up in Toronto, doing this show has posted about this on his blog, Michael Geist dot Garcia. He also did a law bites podcast on this and he's pretty head up about it. In fact, the government has cut off debate by the way, even though there's no rush, they're trying to rush this bill because I think they're starting to realize that this is a hot potato and they, they might have screwed up in any event. Yeah, I completely agree. Is there a place people can go, there's a petition, right. Did you talk about this before?

Andy Ihnatko (02:16:05):
Yes. Digital first Canada CA and it's the, the movement is called fix C 11. The bill was C 10. It was killed when they called an election. Now it's back as C 11. And it's, it's just, yeah, it it's overly broad and lack specifics. That would be very helpful

Leo Laporte (02:16:20):
To us. Yeah. And we really, if you wanna defend people like Rene, I mean, he's Canadian for crying out.

Andy Ihnatko (02:16:27):
I would point out it's not just a Canadian issue because there are laws on the books in us states that are gonna try to control what, what the algorithm serves yeah. Or doesn't serve. The EU has said that they wanna start doing content adjustment, you know, in a terrifying sense of the word Russia famously China would love to be able to tell you what you should and shouldn't watch. And I don't think Canada should have any part in providing cover or precedent for administrations who would go even further than they're going,

Leo Laporte (02:16:50):
Especially important. If you're Canadian digital first canada.ca you can send a letter, they have a proposed text that you can copy if you want. Yes. To fix C 11. I probably doesn't make any difference if I write to Ottawa, but I don't know if

Andy Ihnatko (02:17:07):
They grew up watching you on tech TV. Leo,

Leo Laporte (02:17:09):
Can you, yeah, maybe, maybe I should say, yeah. I was happy to do Canadian content as the only American <laugh>. I

Andy Ihnatko (02:17:15):
Think you need to do a special

Leo Laporte (02:17:16):
PSA Leo, like, and put it up there. There's all those, I help folks that are there is a, is a purple lab, a letter you can send as a concerned global citizen in here at digital first Canada. So maybe, maybe I should I should do that. Yeah, yeah. Do a little PSA save YouTube. Right.

Andy Ihnatko (02:17:34):
And I'll just add that it's not about politics because like we've had every single government imaginable over the last 30 years and none of them fixed the CRTC. It is, it isn't, all of them are happy to take lobbyist money. And the thing they argue with most is each other. So like, like, don't worry about the politics at all. Just figure, think about the YouTube that you want to have and how you can best protect

Leo Laporte (02:17:51):
It. You're not against the notion of Canadian content. Are you

Andy Ihnatko (02:17:55):
Not at all? It's just the difference to me is that local and national broadcasters reflect back Canadian culture to us. And that's very important, but YouTube is an international platform. And instead of restricting it, we should be using it to broadcast our voices and our culture to everybody. And that's what this threatens, because it would hurt Canadian creator's ability to be seen algorithmically outside of our own borders. It would create us

Leo Laporte (02:18:16):
Exact of what you'd want. Yes.

Andy Ihnatko (02:18:19):
Yeah. And Canadians would, would be forced to take us instead of want, like we, we're doing great. Like we're punching so far above our weight already on YouTube. The only thing this can do is hurt us. So like, we'd rather, they just ignore

Leo Laporte (02:18:31):
Us. Very good point. Digital first canada.ca. And you,

Andy Ihnatko (02:18:36):
We have Ryan George, we're fine. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:18:39):
Andy and ACO pick of the week.

Rene Ritchie (02:18:42):
Actually I didn't find, I didn't come across anything tech related that really got me excited. This week. So, but one that did got me get me excited was I found out about a new bunch of joy student anda vocal master classes that hit YouTube. She gave a masterclass at the San Francisco academy, excuse me, Conservatorium music last month. And they just got posted to YouTube. I love, I mean, I've talked about opera a lot on this show but you don't have to be a fan of opera to really enjoy these master classes cuz they're not at least, especially the way that joy student Andana one of my favorite Sopranos does them, it's not about, okay, well you missed that note there. You need to hold that note longer. And if you think you, I was full that you didn't, you didn't do that trail thing. It's always about here's how you approach the work, especially this creative work and this expressive work. So these are students to keep

Leo Laporte (02:19:29):
In mind who sing for her and then she works with them. Exactly. Oh, that sounds

Rene Ritchie (02:19:33):
So cool. This video is for like four students in a, in a full like auditorium. And it's treated like a classroom, not as a critique and not as an audition. So they sing an aria and then she has notes and she talks things out with them and maybe they'll redo a few parts, incorporating some of the things that she suggested that they think about or observed. And like I said, it's not technical stuff about you. Sure. It's rarely about, oh, well you should be your, your, your neck should be like this. And you're not really, it's more like things like, okay, well, and this part of the aria, you basically made this gesture here, but you should understand that like this character, they, he doesn't have time to make these broad swinging gestures cuz she's cuz of the situation there. I mean the thing it's, it's always so inspirational to me because consistently and there are hours and hours and hours of her master classes at the Carnegie hall and, and elsewhere, and there are always about square.

Rene Ritchie (02:20:23):
And they're always about one of the, one of the common themes is just that, I mean it takes an opera singer, a student like 10 years just to learn how to sing an aria correctly. And she and her, her thing is always that, okay, great. You can, you are now capable of singing this aria and making it a very, very pretty performance, but that's not enough. That's now the starting point. You, you have not solved this. You, you, you can't ever think that just because you know how to sing this song very, very beautifully. This is not a solved problem that you just have to repeat now for the rest of your career, you have to always be thinking about what you're doing, how you're doing it, what you're trying to communicate, what you're trying to access and how you should best do that. And there's so many times where like you know, if I'm having a crap week of writing or creating or something, I will put on, like I have a playlist of, <laugh> like a hundred of these things and I will put on one of these things and, and it will basically energize me to go back to my work, find out what I need to do, find out what I'm not doing and find a new level that might be there.

Rene Ritchie (02:21:20):
That's worth seeking out is very, very interesting. And of course, it's just, you're, you're amazed that these are these aren't professionals. These are just students and they're singing like, oh my God. And the other magical thing is that at the end, like they will, like, they will maybe like incorporate some of the things that she's been sort of trying to get into him. And you realize that you were blown away by just the how they sung it at the start of the session. But Nira were like, oh my God, now I totally get it. That was like, that was beautiful. But it wasn't nearly as, as big and impactful as what I'm just hearing right now. So high, high recommendation for this stuff. Again, her she's, she's really, really gifted. I think that early career, she was planning to be a music teacher, not an opera star. She didn't get into opera until like her mid twenties, which would've been very, very late for that kind of career. It shows like how gifted she is as an educator and a communicator.

Leo Laporte (02:22:12):
And as an additional point of interest, the, her accompanist is apparently using the new 14.1 inch iPad to play his music. I don't know what he's, what is that? His there, but <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (02:22:23):
A big old tablet.

Leo Laporte (02:22:25):
Yeah. Big old, big old tablet. I don't know what that is. Yeah. very good. I I'll watched this. I that, that sounds really interesting. Yeah. Thank you Andy. Mr. Alex, Lindsay wraps it up with his pick of the week.

Alex Lindsay (02:22:41):
So a lot of us have a lot of cameras <laugh> or some of us have a lot of cameras. And one of the big problems that you end up with with these cameras is the wiring. So you have the power, you have the, the H D I or SDI. You have possibly audio going in and how to, how do you keep all of those kind of wrangled without too much stress on the connections without making those things work? That's always a big challenge. We use GAFE tape, we use Velcro ties. We use zip ties. We use all kinds of things to attach those. And we ran into one at Sy gear. Literally hadn't seen it before, and it's called it's this little thing here called a Sprigg. And so this company's called Sprigg and basically this little thing goes right into our cage.

Leo Laporte (02:23:27):
I can't believe somebody made a company out of this

Alex Lindsay (02:23:30):
<Laugh> so, so here's the, here's what this looks like. I couldn't believe it. Eye, this is a little 10, 10 foot booth. It is so great though. So these are, these are just me playing with this. I literally just got 'em. We saw it on Saturday and it arrived yesterday. I was like, I'm buying bags of these. So, so this is, this is kind of routing, you know, around one of my cameras. So now I have, this is, is in place. This isn't gonna get pulled off. Oh, by, by just getting pulled here, you know, so, so it, and I can get it to route exactly the way I want around that camera. Now, a lot of us have the, it works because a lot of us have these cages, so we have cages, but you can also put it it's just a quarter 20.

Alex Lindsay (02:24:07):
So any part of your camera that has a quarter 20 input, you know, the little place that you put it on the tripod and a lot of these newer cameras have a couple of those wrapped around it. You can drop one of these Spriggs and start to like really manage the, the, you know, have some more cable management with it. And they're, they're cheap. I mean, they're like, I don't know, eight bucks or 10 bucks for, for six of 'em. It's not particularly expensive. You can buy 'em on Amazon. And and for those of us who have dealt with this for, in my case decades it's kind of life changing. <Laugh> like, it it's like, it's like, you can't believe that they did it, but, but it is. But you're just like, oh, I cannot believe I didn't have something like this to make it work. So, so that's, it's a, it's a, again, it, if you're not dealing with lots of cameras with lots of wires, it's probably not as exciting, but there's, I know there's some people watching this now that'll be like, oh no, they're all running to Amazon. You should bring, we should run right now because, because it'll be sold out now. So the anyway, it's a great, great product. And

Leo Laporte (02:25:03):
You know, somebody's a gaffer, if he has the SPR holder on his key chain. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Alex Lindsay (02:25:10):
Cause you never know when you're gonna, you

Leo Laporte (02:25:11):
Never know when you

Alex Lindsay (02:25:12):
Need a, let's put a SPRI in there. Yeah, exactly. So that's, that's my, that's my biggest, I'm always amazed at what people call. It was like something that I didn't know was missing until I saw it. And then it was missing a lot. Now, did you

Leo Laporte (02:25:23):
Get the new glow in the dark color? Cuz that would be

Alex Lindsay (02:25:25):
Kind of fun. I did not. I did not get them. I guess there's $18. I know how much it was. It didn't matter. I was like,

Leo Laporte (02:25:31):
Well, funnily enough, the glow in the dark is a dollar less. It's only 17.

Alex Lindsay (02:25:35):
Yeah. It's cheaper. Evidently to make it glow dark. So

Leo Laporte (02:25:37):
It's maybe.

Alex Lindsay (02:25:38):
Yeah, but they're, they're they're anyways, for, for those of us who do this a lot I have a feeling I'm gonna end up with bags and bags and bags of them. The the other thing I was gonna mention that I just got really obsessed with over the last couple days is two minute paper. It's in on YouTube. I don't know if you've seen two minute paper. I will warn you that if you're concerned about our AI overlords, this is not the site to watch. You know, so this is, but the video that they show, there's a bunch of videos that they're just looking at, what different

Leo Laporte (02:26:09):
Doing are and stuff. Oh,

Alex Lindsay (02:26:10):
You gotta, you gotta watch the one that's on the main one, the trailer that or the main yeah,

Leo Laporte (02:26:14):
Yeah. The, the front page. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:26:16):
It's showing, it's showing these little characters and if some of them are seekers and some of 'em are hi hiding. And when they start, neither of them know really what to do, but it shows how, not only do the, do they get good at this, but they find bugs inside of the simulator, like physics bugs. Like they figured out that they could just push it through a corner and it would just disappear and, and, and just had like over a hundred million tries, right? Like, you know, like cuz the simulator just runs and runs and runs. And the reason I think one of the reasons I'm so excited about this video is this is almost exactly what I worked on 30 years ago.

Leo Laporte (02:26:48):
I love

Alex Lindsay (02:26:48):
This stuff. So I,

Leo Laporte (02:26:50):
I used, used to have a brief Walker screensaver that would slowly teach itself how to walk. These guys are, what are they learning? How to navigate

Alex Lindsay (02:26:59):
First they learn. Yeah, look at this right here. They don't know anything. They don't know. They don't know what, why they're even there, but they

Leo Laporte (02:27:04):
Have a Vic, they have a goal. They have a, a rule that says,

Alex Lindsay (02:27:07):
No, they, yeah, don't get killed. Don't die. Don't

Leo Laporte (02:27:09):
Die. That's it.

Alex Lindsay (02:27:10):
Okay. Yeah, don't die. And so, or don't get caught or whatever by the seekers. And so, and the seekers don't even know that they're, you know, that like they're getting a positive reinforcement. So then over time they, they figure out how to block the seekers out, you know you know, from getting in smart and then, and then over time, there's, there's a place where the, the seekers learn. If you go a little further forward that the seekers learn how to use that ramp you know, to get up and over. And then, and then the little guys figure out how

Leo Laporte (02:27:37):
To trap

Alex Lindsay (02:27:38):
The, throw the ramp away. And then they figure out how to throw the ramp away. Like cuz right in the corner, there's a physics SIM. And then the seekers there, the craziest one is at the very end, not the very end, but almost to the end, the seekers, figure out how to create a bug, create a, a bug in the simulator, in the physics simulator to be fired over top of them and hit them while hit them in the air. <Laugh> like, it's like total, like it's, it's it's total like

Leo Laporte (02:28:02):
Open AI stuff, designed the map and then is, is doing the solving I don't of them as this is. So this thing is completely like, like nobody programmed. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Alex Lindsay (02:28:13):
Yeah. But the it's all of the stuff is they're they're all, they're all these are, they're figuring this out. Right. look, see, they got, they got their take it in, but now you can't get in

Rene Ritchie (02:28:22):
Ramp so that they so that right. They can't get breached the world.

Alex Lindsay (02:28:25):
Well, and, and then, and this is after, you know, and then there's, there's some point here where it'll, I think it'll show it really in the second

Leo Laporte (02:28:30):
There's millions of tries though. Right? We're seeing it. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:28:33):
You're seeing they're just yeah, no you're by hundreds. Sometimes hundreds of millions of tries. Yeah. Yeah. If, but the next one, I think you're almost there. Hold on. Let's see. I think that they show one where it figured out, you know, giving it more time. I don't know why they keep on showing it over and over again. Oh anyway. I think later on it shows you the bugs, but they, this one, this one's funny because this guy jumps up on the ramp and he found a bug, which is that you can move, he can move,

Leo Laporte (02:28:57):
Move, can ride the, the box.

Alex Lindsay (02:28:58):
He can ride the box. And they said just because we didn't, we didn't think of him ever being able to, why would you ever do that? You know? So he found something that you couldn't, that you couldn't do

Leo Laporte (02:29:07):
And people say, oh, evolution couldn't happen. I mean, this is from random, just completely random movements. You finally figure out how to do something that seems intelligent. It's kind of incredible. Incredible. Yeah. So this is, this is a part of a YouTube channel called two minute papers. What be

Alex Lindsay (02:29:29):
Golly stuff. But yeah, he always says that in, he shows you these things, he goes, what is a, what a diamond is to be alive.

Leo Laporte (02:29:34):
Yeah, it is. So here's, it does have examples of what you can do with Dolly, which is kind of cool too. Very interesting. Wow. I am gonna have, I have a feeling this is gonna waste a lot of

Alex Lindsay (02:29:47):
My time. I apologize cuz it, it, I lost, I lost an hour, like just an hour watching. Well, I, I've only known about it for like

Leo Laporte (02:29:54):
36 hours. So

Alex Lindsay (02:29:56):
I've already lost one. I

Leo Laporte (02:29:57):
Was surprised you showed up at all. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:29:59):
That's hard. I'm

Leo Laporte (02:30:00):
Hard. Deep mind. Open AI, Dolly and video robot arm. It's all sorts of different AI. Yeah. This is a, a primer for where the world is headed. Here's here's the top 10 weird Dolly results. <Laugh> <laugh> a triangular green clock. Okay. a Teddy bear and a skateboard in times square. It's pretty amazing. What Dolly can do. I have to say

Rene Ritchie (02:30:32):
My, my favorite is mid-century modern chair. That looks like an apple and it's a picture of my God. That would, that would sell so

Leo Laporte (02:30:39):
Well this one here it looks or that's the avocado <laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:30:44):
Avocado

Leo Laporte (02:30:45):
Meme. Wow. Wow. Very cool. I will be watching this. Thank you two minute papers. Very, very good. Well I guess the show's over, but thank you very much. I hate to end it, but thank you very much. Rene Ritchie.com/youtube do watch that M2 video. There's lots of great stuff at Rene ritchie.com/youtube. I've

Andy Ihnatko (02:31:16):
Gotta follow up. I'm gonna post tonight or tomorrow morning on what this means for the M2 family of chips.

Leo Laporte (02:31:21):
You work so damn hard. Don't take much of easy, so much stuff. Really, really great stuff. Where's Alex. Yep. Very good. Yeah. You were on the the office hours global. 

Alex Lindsay (02:31:36):
We streamed two

Leo Laporte (02:31:37):
Boats. Nice. Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (02:31:38):
I was, I was on two hours. Well, I can only imagine is three weeks of coverage in one day on

Alex Lindsay (02:31:42):
Office hours.

Leo Laporte (02:31:42):
Wow.

Alex Lindsay (02:31:43):
It was fun. We had a great time. It was a great, a great show.

Rene Ritchie (02:31:46):
What, wasn't your, why? Wasn't your pick of the week? Like mattresses pillows, you know, things that I, now I, now that I'm can sleep again. I'm most, most grateful. Fall for wait full of fall for peace and quiet. Yeah. He eye, eye share protectors and, and near mosts.

Leo Laporte (02:32:01):
Yep. A NACO. When are you gonna be on GBH in Boston?

Rene Ritchie (02:32:05):
Next I am on a day early because Thursday is being preempted by January 6th commission coverage. So I'm on tomorrow at think like one o'clock one 10 Wednesday. So if you go to WGBH news.org, I was also on Bob SRAs show again on WGN in Chicago. If you go to WGN radio.com they actually already have, like, my segments says individual stories posted as audio student screen that there right now.

Leo Laporte (02:32:30):
Awesome. Thank you, Andrew. And of course, office hours.global is where you'll find Alex Lindsay, most of the day,

Alex Lindsay (02:32:38):
Just in the morning, actually just we get it all done pretty quickly. And by nine o'clock I'm off to work, but and

Leo Laporte (02:32:43):
They keep going though, which is great.

Alex Lindsay (02:32:45):
They, yeah, all day they, I jump in, I jump in and listen for a little while. Cause it's like, it's like the geekiest water cooler ever. Yeah. and but we we have Nick Joshin from Drexel university is gonna be talking tomorrow about mesh to metahuman. So this is the new thing that, that epic just released, which is you can actually do photogrammetry of your head and then add it to a metahuman and then animated and unreal <laugh> so, so it's it's yourself. So it it's kind of a, so it he's gonna talk about step by, step on how to do that. So it should be a lot of fun.

Leo Laporte (02:33:14):
I do feel like I'm living in the future with you guys.

Rene Ritchie (02:33:17):
I can't see how that could possibly have any bad repercussions for any

Alex Lindsay (02:33:21):
Moment. <Laugh> I'm really, I was surprised there was rumors that, that it was available last year. And I did a, I did a whole thing with met ahuman last year, like a whole, you know, keynote with it. And we really wanted that mesh to human thing and we're like, we know you have it and they just wouldn't realize it. So we were so, so anyway, it's it's out now,

Leo Laporte (02:33:39):
Office hours.global. And if you wanna hire Mr. Lindsay for your next streaming event. Oh nine oh.media. Thank you, Alex. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Rene. Thanks to all of you for joining us. We do MacBreak Weekly Tuesday mornings for me. Anyway. 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern for you east coasters. Actually it's 1800 UTC. You could figure out where it is in your time zone. I tell you the lifetime because you can watch live@livedottwis.tv. You can chat with us, live@ircdottwi.tv club members. Of course, in our discord. After the fact you can get the shows at our website, twit.tv/bw. There's a dedicated YouTube channel. There's a new album art, by the way. I like it. I hope you guys like it. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. It's it's we, when you see all of the album art, we we're redoing all the album art. When you see it all at once, you'll get an idea of, of kind of how whacky it scales

Speaker 5 (02:34:35):
Up and down. It scales up and

Leo Laporte (02:34:36):
Down really nicely. Yeah. Yeah. That was part of it. Right. Want still

Speaker 5 (02:34:40):
Have's

Leo Laporte (02:34:41):
What are you getting there? What's Sandy getting

Speaker 5 (02:34:44):
I've got hanging right next to the podcast suite

Leo Laporte (02:34:46):
Who? Oh yeah. Our friend Joe. No. Does those? Yeah, those are so great. Yeah. Yeah. So

Speaker 5 (02:34:51):
That's, that's, that's hanging like right next to like my podcast suite.

Leo Laporte (02:34:54):
<Laugh> I love that. I have one too. Yeah. I have one too. Yeah. Unfortunate because we're gonna have to get him to do all new <laugh> those. He does those with a, I think with a router and paints them. They're they're wood cuts. They're beautiful. What was I saying? Oh yeah, there's a YouTube channel dedicated to it. And of course the best way to subscribe to Mac break quickly would be to get to subscribe, get yourself a podcast app it's free. Don't don't let the word subscribe scare you away. You'll get it automatically. The minute it's available. Thanks to all of our listeners and friends. We will be back next week. Meanwhile, I am sorry to say you have to get back to work because break time is over byebye.

Mikah Sargent (02:35:37):
If you are looking for a midweek update on the weeks tech news, I gotta tell you, you gotta check out tech news weekly. See it's all kind of built in there with the title. You get to learn about the news in tech that matters every Thursday, Jason, how and I talk to the people making and breaking the tech news, get their insights and their interesting stories. It's a great show to check out twit.tv/tnw.