MacBreak Weekly Episode 820 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly! Rene, Alex and Andy are here. We'll take a look at what's ahead for WWDC on Monday, Renee's gonna lower our expectations. Mikah tried Apple's self-repair program. You won't believe what happens next and what's wrong with swift UI in 2022, a lot of people weigh in. It's all coming up next on Mac break, weekly podcasts you love from people you trust. This is tweet.

Leo Laporte (00:00:36):
This is MacBreak Weekly episode 820 recorded May 31st, 2022 30 years of Newton. Macbreak Weekly is brought to you by ultimate ears fits ultimate ears fits are the world's most comfortable earbuds with premium sound and all day comfort use promo code MacBreak at ue.com/fits to get your pair and by collide get end point management that puts the user first. Visit collide.com/macbreak. To learn more and activate a free 14 day trial today. No credit card required and by wealth front to start building your wealth and get your first $5,000 managed free for life. Go to wealthfront.com/macbreak it's time for MacBreak Weekly to show we cover the latest Apple news of which there is very little because here comes WWDC in less than a week. Renee Richie is here. He won't be here next week. Don't know why have no idea why.

Rene Ritchie (00:01:36):
Here comes dub dub, here comes dub dub. Right down dub dub street. Hi Leo, I'm so happy!

Rene Ritchie (00:01:44):
It's like Christmas.

Leo Laporte (00:01:44):
I understand that you can't, I can't say anything, but it sounds as if it's gonna be one of them hybrid events on on Monday they have

Rene Ritchie (00:01:53):
Thousand. I don't know how many developers ended up inviting, but they did like a second round and it seems like a lot of people there's two

Leo Laporte (00:01:58):
Developers, 2000 seats in the Steve Jobs's theater. So, and

Rene Ritchie (00:02:04):
It's, but I think they're gonna have more because they they're gonna doing a whole, like,

Leo Laporte (00:02:06):
They could have a, there were rumors, I think. Yeah, no,

Rene Ritchie (00:02:08):
I think gr was suggesting it might be one of the, the buildings on tantau that across from the visitor center might be repurposed as a developer center. That's to be super interesting because they haven't done anything like that

Leo Laporte (00:02:18):
Before. That's what Gman is saying WWDC in person attendees, granted special access to four Hills <laugh> I'm sorry. You can choose one to die on Hills <laugh> that's Andy Ihnatko in Boston. And I thank you so much for being here on Sunday on Twitter. It was great having you, having your having your voice,

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:41):
Always, always fun to, to be able to talk to you on a weekend.

Leo Laporte (00:02:44):
Yeah. It's a little different and we get to talk about more than Apple. So that's,

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:49):
I, I learned that I learned that there's that if you're podcasting here, like at 6:00 PM, then there's an absolute laser beam of sunlight that comes in right through that one tiny crack and that one curtain right over there. Nice. So yes, I had to, I had to road, I had to do with what Apollo used to call a barbecue roll throughout the show to keep maintained temperature.

Leo Laporte (00:03:10):
Also Alex Lindsay, office hours.global. Good to see you, Alex. Good to be here. Office hours will be doing its own coverage. I'll give a plug to the competition since you probably wanna watch that anyway, they'll be doing their own

Alex Lindsay (00:03:24):
Coverage at the same time. It's not competition.

Leo Laporte (00:03:25):
It's not 10:00 AM on Monday. And then after

Alex Lindsay (00:03:29):
At the same time. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:03:30):
It's exactly the same. And then in the evening you're gonna do a thing with Renee and I Justine, a bunch of other people kind of a, a developers, a breakdown.

Alex Lindsay (00:03:38):
Yeah, well, yeah. And, and we have we have a couple developers with us as well, so that they're there. Hold they hold us to the, to the actual

Leo Laporte (00:03:46):
Is, is it, is it the more interesting the state of the union after the, the initial keynote? Is that always for

Alex Lindsay (00:03:51):
Developers? It is for,

Leo Laporte (00:03:52):
It is that's

Alex Lindsay (00:03:53):
When they talk about it's definitely. Yeah. Well, it's not just that they talk about stuff. The, the, the keynote is really publicly facing. Like this is another place that we're, it's, it's developer leaning, but it's definitely aimed at the general public while the, the state of the union is for the, for the developers. Like this is, this is for you to see this is, and this it's much more nitty gritty and much more. And, and you see a lot of other features that we might have been glazed over. Like, it's something that they'll mention, like, that'll be like a word in a sentence in the keynote will be 15 minutes or 10 minutes in the, in the state of the union. If it's important and, and then they dig into it a lot deeper. And then of course the rest of the week is all the other movies that dig, dig, dig into it way deeper,

Leo Laporte (00:04:35):
Way deeper. You say movies as opposed to live. Some of this is gonna be live this time. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:04:42):
Only the keynote,

Leo Laporte (00:04:43):
Only the keynote.

Rene Ritchie (00:04:44):
Yeah. The sessions, the session

Rene Ritchie (00:04:46):
Is really multiple events. There's like the, like, like Alex said, there's the keynote, which is consumer facing the state of the union, which is developer facing there's the, the Apple design awards, which are just a lot of fun. But then there's two major tracks. One is the sessions where a bunch of engineers and designers get up on stage and do deep dives into everything that's new in the frameworks and there's labs where you can actually go and have, like before times you could go and have Apple designers and Apple developers, engineers, the people responsible for your frameworks, like telling you know, Chris Leia, why he keeps breaking the accelerate framework with every one of his apps and, you know, talk about your bugs and get advice. And those parts are all still virtual. So all the labs and all the sessions, like for the last two years, they've been prerecorded evangelism works really hard with the engineers and designers, so they can have really good presentation skills. They put like their own little personal things on the desk and they film those. And then you can go and watch those. And the labs are happening over WebEx still so that, you know, people everywhere can take part.

Alex Lindsay (00:05:43):
And as a consumer of the videos, first of the ones that were done on stage, and now the ones that are, you know, cause I, I watch a lot of these videos that I'm so glad that they moved to prerecorded. It's so much better. Like it is so much better to watch it cuz they, they can't take questions anyway. It's not like it's interactive, they're not taking questions up on stage. They're simply doing something that they've rehearsed for weeks to do it.

Leo Laporte (00:06:06):
Yeah. Might as well record it.

Alex Lindsay (00:06:08):
Right. And except that they're nervous in front of a whole lot of people and, and something and the mic in their hair sometimes.

Rene Ritchie (00:06:13):
And it just scratches over and over again. Like

Alex Lindsay (00:06:15):
It's just like all these things that, that don't really work. And so the, the, the fact that it's all it's, it's all prerecorded way better. And like, I, I wouldn't, you know, you can now play it back at two X, which is about the right speed, you know, like to, to watch this stuff for most of it is like 1.5 to two X. And, and so I, you know, I think that it's a, it's a huge it it's, it's a, it's a big bump up. I don't know. I, I, I hope they don't go back. Like I hope that they, they just like folk the labs eventually could be really done well in person again. And I think there's, and, and I think being able developers being able to hang out with each other somewhere in the future. But I think that the, the era of I'm hoping that the era of sessions being done live is over.

Leo Laporte (00:07:00):
So, and then some press is gonna get invited. I gather, I won't say how I gather that. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:07:06):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:07:07):
Well, I, I mean, that's interesting that a handful, I guess maybe because there'll be something to show afterwards, something in a, in a demo area

Rene Ritchie (00:07:16):
I'm not getting any hopes up. I'm not gonna have a single hope raise Leo. I'm not expecting any VR headsets. I'm not expecting any Mac books. I am. I'm hoping for a Mac pro preview, cuz they've done that before. But every year, like the rumors, especially like they get so repetitive, they're always like everything is coming. And I was just looking through my YouTube feed and it's like, confirmed, this is gonna be here. And

Leo Laporte (00:07:36):
I went

Rene Ritchie (00:07:36):
Back and it was like 2013. That's just YouTube confirmed. This is gonna be

Leo Laporte (00:07:39):
It's crap. Like link bait from YouTube, you that.

Rene Ritchie (00:07:41):
And then, but then I get, I get like, I don't wanna be disappointed. I would rather be like surprised than here's what

Leo Laporte (00:07:46):
Mark, mark. Well, actually here's what Ming CHIO says is don't expect any VR stuff and he make, I think this is speculation on his part, but he makes the excellent point. You don't want to give the competition any idea of what that VR headset might look like. On the other hand, we know that the reality OS trademark is for, has already been established and then, and internationally for the day after the keynote. So they're obviously,

Rene Ritchie (00:08:12):
That's just performer though. Like that's they established it six months ago and it has to be renewed in six months. So that's

Leo Laporte (00:08:17):
Just, okay. So it's, that's

Rene Ritchie (00:08:18):
Not meaningful. That's Apple lawyer stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:08:19):
That's a coincidence that it's June 8th. It's not, it's not a meaningful,

Rene Ritchie (00:08:23):
Yeah, it's a lot of headlines.

Leo Laporte (00:08:25):
Although I suspect that they, they might say something about reality OS without giving away what the headset looks like or anything

Rene Ritchie (00:08:30):
Like that. I think Andy nailed it last time when he said like at some point the FCC is gonna leak all this stuff for Apple and they'll announce soon as we see that, like a month before that. Yeah. We

Leo Laporte (00:08:38):
Have seen FCC leaks of some new max though, right? Or no. So, oh no, that was the weird wifi thing that we saw the dongle. Yeah. The dongle they would, would they have to do if they have M two MacBook errors, which seems the most credible rumor colorful M two MacBook errors, would they have to have had those through the FCC by now?

Rene Ritchie (00:09:00):
I still think it's like an Apple store thing. That's gonna be until I see like an actual product. I gonna assume it's for Apple, Apple technicians.

Leo Laporte (00:09:08):
Well, I'm say, oh, say that. Oh, you mean the dongle, but what about the MacBook air? M two MacBook air. Why have we not seen anything about that? You think that's not gonna happen on Monday?

Rene Ritchie (00:09:20):
It's like WWC to me is always like, it's mostly about the software it's towards. Sometimes there's a lot of pro centric products, but it's mostly like if they fail to announce something in March or there was no March event, then stuff gets folded over to dub dub. Like in 2017, there was no March event. So we got like 18 different Macs, the iPad pro the home plot. We got a ton of hardware at dub dub. But this year there was a March event. There also was no real indication that things were being like delayed, like other than the usual COVID related delays. And it sounds like Apple for whatever reason is having a hard time getting what they wanted out of this generation of chips, Taiwan, semiconductors four nano meter process is really five nano optimization level two and their three nanometer process isn't ready on time. So what Apple was hoping for a 16 and for M two is just not gonna, or M three is not gonna be there. So things are shifting. They could do it just to have something to announce like they did like, you know, like, like a home pod style announcement. I just,

Leo Laporte (00:10:13):
So don't so really

Rene Ritchie (00:10:15):
Paleo, I'm not gonna get my hopes

Leo Laporte (00:10:16):
Up. This is a caution to everybody because I think the world certainly is saying, oh yeah, M two MacBook airs in color. Don't don't hold

Rene Ritchie (00:10:25):
Well, Shanghai closed. I mean, they literally

Andy Ihnatko (00:10:27):
Closed. Yeah. But, and, and also think about what, what does Apple gain by announcing these in the, the, the first week in June, as opposed to waiting for when people are almost champing at the bit to go back to school. And you'll, if you wait for, if you wait till the end of the summer, you also get some more time to build up stock. You, you also get a little bit more attention because that's the start of the spending money season. I mean, I could, I, I could, I could certainly see them actually releasing something next week, but I don't know what advantage that they would be giving themselves by doing that at WWDC, which is a keynote where the, the, the thrust is for developers and the thrust is an overall state of the union to the public about how Apple's doing.

Alex Lindsay (00:11:12):
And I, and I think that, you know, March is usually the education event. Like that's usually when they, because that's, that's the cycle by June's too late, you know, for any, any institutional purchasers to buy purchase orders. Yeah. So, yeah, so, so, so I think that it's, it's, it's typically a definitely focused on again, developers and, and, and forward, you know, we, we could potentially see, again, some movement in U S D, Z some movement in you know, a wider range of that. And, and, and I think that AR iOS or whatever, or AOS a, a

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:44):
Aris

Alex Lindsay (00:11:44):
<Laugh> ROS, whatever they call it, ROS Ross you know, I think that it could, you know, that potentially could come out. Again, it potentially that that can you know, with simulators or maybe they do talk about the fact that they're gonna do some stuff it's, it's hard to, it's hard to know you do want to what's fair to developers, or what you hope to do with developers is to give them, you know, time to to think, and, and to work on things. And, and I mean, I would give like a 5% chance that they actually release a developer addition of some new piece of hardware that costs $5,000 and, you know, and they'll sell as many as they can make <laugh> at at that, at that price. Yeah. And so, so I think that, that, that potentially that could happen, but I would only give it a five or 10% chance.

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:26):
Yeah. But what I said on, on Sunday at during during twit, I, I still sticks. I mean, I think, I think that it's gonna follow the same path as the Apple watch did as the iPhone did, as the iPad did, where there is a time at which they're going to have to make a public FCC filing, which they absolutely show everything that's going go on anyway. So they're gonna choose that week or that date to just show it off and give you the big dog and pony demo, and then say, this is gonna be releasing like in Jan, they'll show it off in January. They'll be say, they'll, they'll be releasing in June and they'll start seating. They'll start seating developers selected developers in January. So that during the big event where they actually launch it, they'll have lots of third party apps to right on stage to to actually demonstrate with cuz I, I I'd be really surprised if we saw if we see any hardware this year because it's, again, what's the, what's the advantage.

Andy Ihnatko (00:13:20):
That's not how Apple tends to work. I think, I think that there's gonna be a lot of tea tea, that leaf reading in all the sessions that come out, because I think that we're gonna see a lot of, a lot of stuff where, Hey, wow, here's a new 3d object or here's a new, here's a new system for prioritizing sensory input that yes, I suppose you could use it for the time of flight sensor on a phone, but it actually makes more sense for a device that has not just one or two cameras, but say 10 to 14 cameras. And that's where we, we're gonna see three big phones.

Alex Lindsay (00:13:54):
Well, and it'll be interesting to see what kind of updates they do related to the software. I mean, I think that we are seeing Apple. I, I, I've been thinking about this in the last couple weeks that, that, you know, a lot of the immersive stuff that Apple's doing and everything else really plays into the AR VR or XR you know, solutions that they've been doing very slowly. And so it'll be interesting to see, for instance, if we inside of you know, reality creator, do we get 3d objects? When, when I say 3d objects, 3d objects in, in sound, you know, where if something's moving around, you, Apple's doing the processing, cuz that's a real, what maybe Dolby's doing the processing that Apple is licensed from Doby, but Doby already has a lot of that built in for gameplay. So that's already built into some, there's some, you know, unity builds and, and I think anyways, other builds that are there.

Alex Lindsay (00:14:39):
And, and so I think that Apple potentially could be doing more in that area making it, I think that the interesting thing about dub dub, which I'm gonna be really interested in track is Apple may not be trying to build a metaverse. It may be giving everybody else the tools to have a unified build their own metaverses on the Apple platform that allow, allow cross, you know, if, if everyone's using the same libraries, it gets into something that a lot of us talk about with metaverse the problem is you can't move your character from one space to another. I can't go from Facebook to another space, but if Apple built the underlying architecture that everybody's sitting on, you could theoretically have a more unified experience across many people's development, which would, if, if I was at Facebook, I'd be very, very concerned if I saw that come up this week. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:15:33):
The other thing that occurred to me is that Apple doesn't usually launch platforms at like new product charact at WWDC, like Andy said, the iPhone on the iPod iPad were both January. The Apple watch was September. The only one that's ever been at WWDC was 2017. And that was the home pod. And the goal there was very different. The goal there was, there was like the same with the Apple watch to a degree is that there was immense pressure that Apple wasn't in this market. And by announcing a dub dub with a, with the idea of launching in the fall, they could Osborne other, they Osborne competitors, not themselves. And then maybe people would wait and not buy something else because they knew Apple was coming out with this and time for the holidays. And then of course famously they had to go back and rebuild so many of the infrastructure points they couldn't launch in the fall. And then it ended up being a spring launch. So they way over announced it. And I think they've gone a little bit leery of that. So like my guess is like there, there will be an event that actually shows off like you can buy it now order today, order within two weeks ships, whatever. And that will be six months after they do the, the like Apple watch or iPhone introductory thing, which is, you know, three weeks before it hits the FCC in the Eastern Eastern Europe. I'm also,

Alex Lindsay (00:16:38):
I'm also, I'm also curious to see if, if they if they show us why that monitor, that they're selling to us now has so much processing power and memory. <Laugh>, it's very odd. And WC would be the time to show you like, oh, by the way, you can actually turn this monitor into its own little machine. Well,

Rene Ritchie (00:16:56):
There was another rumor, right? Like the Ross young rumor that the big boy version of the big person version of that monitor the mini L E D version, which he says is 27 inches. But other people have said is bigger, was supposed to be a WWDC, but has been delayed. Again, because of so much in the supply chain has been delayed to a fall launch. Now maybe they tell that story. I believe

Leo Laporte (00:17:16):
The speculation that that monitor is just, they had some parts lying around and they threw 'em all together and they have no plans to do anything more than

Alex Lindsay (00:17:23):
Just cause that's the way Apple does it. Let's put some extra stuff in there for no reason

Leo Laporte (00:17:26):
For no re well they do it all the time. Right,

Alex Lindsay (00:17:28):
Right. No, they it's always, well,

Rene Ritchie (00:17:30):
If had, I would be more optimistic if it had wifi, like the way the Samsungs does, right? Like if they had wifi in there, it would be so interesting. Like you could have an airplay or a, a, a continuity, like universal control device without a Mac. Like you just come up, put your laptop down, not plug in a single thing, like go to Alex's office. I could go to your office, Leo, stick my books, be using it without having to let me do anything else. Like I just peer to peer. And, and they just didn't do that, which I dunno if it was an oversight or deliberate or they, or it's coming in a future version, but that would've been a super interesting product to me. This just feels like they needed something to offer iOS style features in the monitor. And the cheapest way to do that was to slap iPad, you know, iPad, nothing motherboards

Leo Laporte (00:18:08):
In it. I will bet you, Alex Lindsay, this classic one button mouse <laugh> that Apple will just don't mouse, never at turn on any hardware features in that monitor. What you see is what you get. And, but

Alex Lindsay (00:18:22):
I have to say, they know what I can bet. Is it an empty better? What

Rene Ritchie (00:18:25):
About pairing? They might add pairing Leo stereo pairing. That would be nice. Cause a bunch of nerds have two of them.

Leo Laporte (00:18:31):
Oh, come on. That's gotta be the smallest market ever. And if you have two of these monitors, two of these overpriced monitors,

Rene Ritchie (00:18:37):
But it's our people, Leo, it's our, it's the people who watch the show who want it. They're the ones on, on Twitter

Leo Laporte (00:18:41):
Asking they've told us they want pairing <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:18:44):
They want stereo parenting. Cause they have two of them.

Leo Laporte (00:18:47):
Okay.

Rene Ritchie (00:18:48):
Whole pod can do it. All right. Only be fair. So

Leo Laporte (00:18:51):
I, I know Alex, you could bet that fancy monitor <laugh>

Alex Lindsay (00:18:55):
I don't have, I don't have the fancy monitor.

Leo Laporte (00:18:57):
Oh, are you waiting to buy it until they give it more features?

Alex Lindsay (00:19:01):
No, I just,

Leo Laporte (00:19:01):
It's not a very good monitor. Let's I mean, it's a, it's not a good monitor.

Alex Lindsay (00:19:05):
In addition to my iMac and my whack tablet. I have five monitors here. I don't, you don't need it or right now, like I just, I just, I'm just saturated at the moment. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:19:15):
Saturated with monitors and we have a show

Leo Laporte (00:19:17):
Title. I have still no regrets that I cancel that order, but yeah. You know, maybe I will, maybe I will on, on Monday, I'm I'm actually thinking at this point I could just skip Monday and <laugh> it sounds like it's just gonna, it's not gonna be the most exciting if you're expecting hardware. What, what could they announce that would make me come in at 10:00 AM on a, on A's a morning.

Rene Ritchie (00:19:40):
Lots of you got into iOS. Sorry

Andy Ihnatko (00:19:43):
Lot. Yeah, exactly. Lots of updates to iPad OS I think would be a really, really big deal. There's been a lot of rumblings about things that Apple is doing to improve the notebook, like performance, the productivity performance of the iPad. And that would just be building strength upon strength

Leo Laporte (00:19:58):
That has been inexplicable to me is that they, their software support for iPads power. I mean, it's an M one. It is an M it is a Mac MacBook air in effect. Right?

Rene Ritchie (00:20:10):
But that's this whole Steve thing is that it was designed to be a computer for people, for whom even the Mac was too inaccessible, alienating, intimidating. And he didn't like, like, he wants you to complain and say, the Mac should be better. He want like, he doesn't want people to say, just make the iPad a Mac. And I think that's slowly, what's breaking down. Like there's a rumor from Steve Trott and Smith, that web kit has been updated to include multi windowing on its iPad version, which means you might start seeing that. But at what point do they just make it another Mac? And it becomes, again like another computer that's inaccessible to the massive mainstream majority that it was actually designed for?

Andy Ihnatko (00:20:41):
Well, no, it's the, the, the iPad and all iOS devices, I've always had its unique identity. It's it as a, almost like a Chromebook to a, compared to a desktop, meaning that this is the one that is absolutely locked down. This is the one where you can't side load apps. This is the one where you can't just simply make it do absolutely everything you wanted to do. No, you can't have access to the raw file system. No, you can't have a terminal prompt. No, you can't necessar. You can't do emulation. You can't you can't build apps in whatever language you want on it. We'll let you do this one thing maybe with swift, but even there, we won't let you do everything on it. But in exchange, we will give you a, a, a platform that's a lot more stable. And also by throwing out stuff that is really, really tough to support at the kernel level, we will be able to make this thing thinner, lighter, more efficient a lot cooler to run.

Andy Ihnatko (00:21:31):
And also it will be a damn nice tablet for, with a, with a damn nice pencil. I mean, Apple, I, I, I don't think that Apple is so enamored with their with their, with their industrial design to think that no, no, no. People are spending $1,500 for an iPad because of the design, because it looks so good in the hand. No it's because that they are convinced that they can deliver $1,500 worth of value. I E these identical amount of value to almost any mid-range laptop, you can buy from anyone including Apple. And so the ability to do things like, well, one of the most interest, I, I don't know if they could do multi windowing or draggable windows, resizable windows without kind of ruining the, the, the clean, the cleanliness of of the experience. But the, I saw an interesting rumor that, so that one of the systems that Apple's testing is it will, the iPad will operate the way that kind of, that we understand it to normally.

Andy Ihnatko (00:22:23):
But if you do have a keyboard and a track pad connected to it, then it will actually go, lets you suddenly pull windows apart and do stuff like that, which would be interesting. Apple, Apple does a good job with with the user experience cuz they don't give us more than they think that the hardware and the experience can handle. And I've the now that we can actually leave our homes, occasionally I'm getting, I'm getting as much use out of my iPad pro that I bought last year, as I hoped I would, it really is an exceptional experience. And if they could just, if they could make it even easier to do these, to those kind of projects, I'd be all for it.

Leo Laporte (00:22:57):
So Alex, what would you like to see in an iPad OS that would make it live up to its potential? I take it that it does you feel like it doesn't right yet?

Alex Lindsay (00:23:07):
I'm, I'm pretty excited about the iPad. The only thing that I need from the iPad is anyway, <laugh> like, like I, I, yeah, it does. Like I just need, it's got a USBC. It's got the transport to

Leo Laporte (00:23:17):
What is that by the way? Is that sea? So it's us. That sea is USB 3.2. What is that us? They're all different. Every iPad is different.

Alex Lindsay (00:23:26):
Welcome to USBC. Go from, they go from 0.5 on the mini all the way up to Thunderbolt on the

Leo Laporte (00:23:30):
Pro. So on the pro if you have an iPad pro 12.9 or 11, the latest that's thunder. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:23:36):
Thunderbolt three. So where do you get your ice for a second? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I just want support for, if I plug a black magic ultra studio into it or a, or a El Gado cam link or whatever, I wanna see a live video. I want, I want that to be a service that is available into it. So I think that, that for me, that's the biggest thing missing for my iPad because it's mostly, I, I know it's very mundane, but it's mostly so I can do this. You draw on my screen. <Laugh> you know, like I can draw on my iPad, but I can't do that right now. You

Leo Laporte (00:24:01):
Can't right now attach a camera, an external camera to the iPad without the camera connection kit in USB, you can't just plug that's how you video. Even,

Alex Lindsay (00:24:10):
Even I wanna have HD video into it, HD video

Leo Laporte (00:24:13):
In yeah, right.

Alex Lindsay (00:24:14):
60 frames a second. It'd be cool. And, and you could do, there's all kinds of effects and everything else, you know, there's so many things that could be done. I could put in eight, 10 mini in front of it. And then I could have, you know, me cutting shows and, and seeing what I'm doing here. It would be transformation. I like it. And so for that, for me, that's the big, I mean, as far as what I wanna see at, I, I mean, there's lots of things I wanna see at WWC, but what I wanna see from an iPad is just videoing.

Leo Laporte (00:24:36):
We, there have been rumors. That'll be like, I mean, and the prices have been cut for the AirPods. Maybe there'll be some AirPods on Monday. I'm just trying. I'm AirPods. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:24:43):
Airpods,

Leo Laporte (00:24:45):
Airpods.

Alex Lindsay (00:24:45):
I know what hardware again, again, I

Leo Laporte (00:24:47):
Hardware, no hardware.

Alex Lindsay (00:24:48):
I mean, I, I, I, I will say that I, and I say this, I think I say this every year. Now, if they add U SD Z to, to keynote, it is going to create such a cottage industry because tree, because I'm just, you know, like I just, if they add it, I don't even know if they're gonna add it anymore. I've kind of given up. But, but I think that if they add it, what happens is, is that everybody wants basically clip art in 3d and it will create such a massive market for building. Like it's not gonna build a massive market for building $250 objects. It's gonna be like 25 objects for 10 bucks, you know, and you, you know, you, you can buy them. And now you've got a bunch of things for school and a bunch of things for business and a bunch of things for other, you know, and, and it'll be, I, I just think it'll be explosive, you know, and it'll change the way the, the real problem will be.

Alex Lindsay (00:25:33):
Is that nothing, no other presentation tool will be able to do what it's doing. <Laugh>. And so you know, and I think that, and, and I think that it's not, not minor. Like I do a lot of, we build a lot of decks and and the, the main thing is being able to have an object while you're talking. Like, I do things where I have OB things I'm trying to describe as most of my decks are demonstrative. You know, I'm showing how something works. Not I'm not trying to sell anybody, anything. And the, you know, being able to rotate it around, zoom in, on it, all that stuff inside of my inside of my deck is a big deal.

Leo Laporte (00:26:06):
I will put U SD Z and keynote on my bingo card, just so that I can cheer for you. I may announce it. <Laugh> yay. 

Rene Ritchie (00:26:16):
I'd like to, to see my book area, like I said, he's not gonna get my hopes

Leo Laporte (00:26:19):
Up. Yeah. You so is that what's go, okay. Now be honest, is that really what's going on? Renee is you're just tamping it down cuz you don't want to be disappointed when they don't announce it. Well, no. So

Rene Ritchie (00:26:28):
Like it's

Leo Laporte (00:26:30):
Really,

Rene Ritchie (00:26:31):
I get really excited about the software. Like the idea, this stuff hits billions of people. You don't have to buy anything new. No, that's true. For, for like 10 years of I just ridiculous how far back it goes. Like last year, the original iPhone se was still included in the update cycle. So like for, for like a billion people, you were getting like a fresh foot pain's point on your phone, your tablet, you don't have to spend an extra cent it's new features there, there, like the last couple years have been interesting features. So I think Apple had to curve in order to lean in to remote work and to things like share play and all these other things that I don't think they anticipated. So, and I think that got a little bit money there, but just the idea that they can do these things, they can add these things and suddenly like you get it in the beta and it's like a whole new phone. I, I, I, I fall deeply in love with software engineering every,

Leo Laporte (00:27:12):
Every day. That's a really they're well, well said, that's a point that we overlook. We focus so much on what's the new toys that really the software benefits, everybody. That's a very, very, makes all the toys better, makes all the toys better. I okay. And, and I'll pay attention to software then.

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:26):
And, and addition, in addition to looking forward to what's, what's gonna, what's coming up in, I iPad OS iOS, watch OS Mac OS I the, in the PA in the past two or three years, it's just been just as, as exciting to find out what have they added to the ecosystem to make the iPad and the Mac and the watch and the phone work better together. Like I, I would like nothing. I would love nothing more than to have official develop developer support for for the use of an iPad or a phone as an input device. The, the touch bar was an interesting idea that was absolutely not capitalized upon in any way, shape or form by Apple. But if they could simply say here, the, the, the desktop user interface for Photoshop or whatever is what it is, it'll work just absolutely great and fine. But if you, if you are one of those rare Mac owners who also has an iPhone, you can also put a, you can also put a scroll wheel on that, or you can put a color pallet on that thing, or you can use it as an input tablet, and we will have an overlay of your, of your photo on it. That's a it's it's it's one of the reasons why I, again, Lance journalist in a rapidly collapsing market, I did blink <laugh> and hesitate collapsing

Rene Ritchie (00:28:37):
Clicking

Andy Ihnatko (00:28:37):
<Laugh>. But before, before clicking that button and buying, spending like 1400, $5,000 on that iPad pro, but one of the things that made me confident was knowing that it won't just be an iPad. The way an iPad was five or six years ago, it's going to be an accessory that will enhance how I use my Mac. And it's, that's absolutely been true so far. So that's part of what you're investing in, in Apple. There's a lock in, but there's supposed to be a benefit to it. And this, this interoperability and these ways of one piece of hardware enhancing another piece of hardware and making new things possible. That's one of the benefits we're getting from lock in.

Rene Ritchie (00:29:10):
And it's so wild that like air AirPods get updates. Now, like for the last two WCS AirPods got update two years ago, they got spatial audio last year, they got conversation boost and find my it's like we're living in this computational world where like the software touches so many of the products we

Leo Laporte (00:29:23):
Already have. Yeah. Well, if you were lucky enough to get win the lottery and get an invite to Apple park on Monday, let's just not, not necessarily anybody here, but just of those of you who were, were watching. Let's just take a look according to Paul Hudson at two straws on Twitter and what <laugh>, what you'll be in for you've got, you've got, of course the keynote, but before that check in at 7:00 AM for a lovely Apple developer center, open house, and then breakfast at 8:00 AM at cafe max, which Apple spells correctly with two Fs. Just wanna point that out. You're a Francophone. You, you, you appreciate

Rene Ritchie (00:30:08):
That. That's a nice cafe too. Like the one at Apple park they, they had one at, at I L at the infinite loop and then they built another one just down the street that was like much more modern and had like a lot more like walk around area. And that was like, the people covered it, like some super secret Apple cafe, but it was really like a test bed for Apple park. And now they built that out where it's got like these huge opening doors doors. And

Leo Laporte (00:30:30):
The, the last video I was at, which is 10 years ago, that was like cold Danish and bad coffee. Is it better these days? I think it is.

Rene Ritchie (00:30:38):
Oh, I mean, so I still get people still copy me when they've serve bad. Putout there, which I find hilarious. Like, I've got such

Leo Laporte (00:30:43):
A reput, Hey, at least they have

Rene Ritchie (00:30:45):
To include me on the, on the complaint form

Leo Laporte (00:30:47):
Bad to Putin's better than no Putin or,

Rene Ritchie (00:30:49):
But it's. Yeah, no, they've got for a long time, like Steve jobs flew in his favorite sushi chef and said he wanted to make sushi. They got like build a burrito bars.

Leo Laporte (00:30:57):
Oh man. That's why they inviting me the food.

Rene Ritchie (00:30:59):
How was that old joke? Remember, like Steve would pay for Scott forestalls lunch every day and Scott's like, Steve, let me pay for it. He's like Scott, I make $1 a year. I tap with my badge. I have no idea who's paying

Leo Laporte (00:31:08):
For all these free lunches.

Rene Ritchie (00:31:10):
And he's like a billionaire scamming for scamming Apple for free lunch, free

Leo Laporte (00:31:13):
Lunch, man. Keynote

Rene Ritchie (00:31:15):
Scott was getting the burrito. It took longer than Steve sushi,

Leo Laporte (00:31:17):
Keynote and Apple park at 10:00 AM. Although scooter X corrected me. I said 2000, I, this is much. I thought I'd read that in MIRI Medical's book. It is a 1000 seat, but just know when you're sitting in that fine leather seat, that it's cost him $14,000 to make after the keynote

Rene Ritchie (00:31:33):
Power plugs at the bottom of them.

Leo Laporte (00:31:35):
Yes. So you can plug in your, your windows machine after cuz you don't need to plug in into M one right after the it's only

Rene Ritchie (00:31:42):
Lance thesis on going there with a surface every year.

Leo Laporte (00:31:44):
Does he really that's hysterical.

Rene Ritchie (00:31:46):
Yeah. Like it it's like a sea of Apple computers and then Lance on his surface. It's

Leo Laporte (00:31:49):
Amazing Lord. So he still gets invited. Huh? noon lunch at cafe max. Once again, I know that's boring, but you know platform, state of the union, 1:00 PM, then now it's very important. You can meet the teams and from two 30 on, but it's very important that you choose your tour cuz they're all at the same time, this is kinda like booking cruise excursions. You've gotta pick, you can tour the Apple park Hills. Is that like, I mean, what does that mean? Is that actual Hills that you're gonna it's

Rene Ritchie (00:32:22):
Like in our boreal tour, it's like they have a bunch of little rolling Hills size with a bunch of vegetation that they've been planting and they had like a tree master there. Like when it first opened, I don't know what it is now, but cause stuff was still growing then, but they have a bunch of regional plants and you know, they're the, the Aral team is very excited about the fauna that they have or,

Leo Laporte (00:32:39):
And I don't know why you would do this. You could tour the fitness center. That sounds really awful. Or tour cafe max, which you've already been to twice today. So I'm thinking the Apple park Hills, if I happen to have one of those golden tickets, that's where I'd be going. But you know, that's up to you.

Andy Ihnatko (00:32:57):
Oh, you know, it's, you know, you,

Leo Laporte (00:32:59):
I know where you're going cafe. You're going to the

Andy Ihnatko (00:33:01):
Cafe cafe. No. See what, what, what I'm saying is that it would cost me like $1,200 all in to be there at the, to be there at the event. There's for that amount of money. I am bringing a whole, no, I'm bringing a whole Bo whole box of like Ziploc freezer bags. Yeah. And there you go. I'm gonna line every pocket in my jacket and I am going out there with four days worth of meals.

Leo Laporte (00:33:21):
I just wanna point out I never did that. <Laugh> okay. And then find you should have, I should have. Now if I know they factor that in, they cut all the, they,

Andy Ihnatko (00:33:30):
They, they expect to lose, you know, a couple of lamps, you know, all the cold

Leo Laporte (00:33:34):
Danish chair, all the cold Danish I could carry finally at 4:30 PM which is, you know, not exactly an evening event. You can go to the Apple design awards and you're all invited to that. That's awesome. So what a busy, busy day, those lucky few, the proud you think it's more than a thousand, the thousand seats are inside. You think they'll have a overflow?

Rene Ritchie (00:33:59):
I don't know if it's gonna be at this team jobs here. I really think they're gonna do so big again. It was just a

Leo Laporte (00:34:03):
Rumor rainbow.

Andy Ihnatko (00:34:04):
I forget

Leo Laporte (00:34:06):
A lot of

Rene Ritchie (00:34:06):
Places. I said the rumor, it might have been groomer, but like there's a row buildings like because Apple park is in the middle and then you have, you have streets all around it and Apple has buildings all around it. And one of the rumors, and it might have been Gruber said that there's a building right across from the visitor center that Apple could be transforming into an actual developer center, not just for doub, but like going forward cuz they have developers coming in and out all the time. Like, especially back in the old days you used to run developer kitchens all the time out of infinite loop where you'd come in. Even like before hardware, like if developers demonstrate stuff, when they new Apple watches announced a new iPhone, they've been in there for a couple weeks under lock and key working on that stuff with Apple evangelists and engineers and things. So there could be a real thing to have like an Apple developer center and it could debut at the event.

Andy Ihnatko (00:34:47):
Yeah. Have they, does anybody have any information on whether there there's gonna be a mask mandate there or a vaccination mandate

Rene Ritchie (00:34:54):
I've heard there would be someone tweeted the, I think it might have been Paul same Paul who tweeted that might have been tweeting that there's testing and masking required.

Andy Ihnatko (00:35:04):
Yeah. Cause I was, I was, I was wondering if pardon of me was thinking that maybe they'll set up an outdoor tent just to make things a little bit safer. But on the other hand, I'm thinking that if they, if the Steve jobs, theater had not been fitted with really, really good filtration systems at the outset, I bet that they have retrofit a really good filtration and air movement since then still it's it might be. Yeah. And it's, it might be bad after you've gotta pick. Yeah, exactly. No, it might it's it's that? There's something about seeing if you, when you see people in a conventional auditorium like this one where every seat is supposedly going to be filled, you kind of like to see a requirement that everybody has a mask on and a, and, and a safety video with, with, with, with forest, all demonstrating that you're supposed to put it above the nose. Love the

Rene Ritchie (00:35:53):
Chip. You want it to be more like severance than not at that point. Here's a,

Andy Ihnatko (00:35:56):
Here's a beard bag for those of you who have, who have a need for the beard bag.

Leo Laporte (00:36:02):
<Laugh> I don't even want, know

Alex Lindsay (00:36:03):
What a beard bag is there a beard

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:04):
Bag? I don't wanna know that's there, there, no, there are, there are special, there are different mass designs for people who have like full beards.

Alex Lindsay (00:36:10):
Okay. I want

Rene Ritchie (00:36:12):
Talking about the, the Dow, the double Dori.

Alex Lindsay (00:36:15):
Yeah. Have you, have you seen the singing mask that, that, that they built for the opera? I really want to go to event with that. I, I have one. I don't know. It's not right in front of me. Well, that

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:25):
That's, that's the problem. I, I, I

Alex Lindsay (00:36:27):
Know people it's like a big duck bill. Are there

Rene Ritchie (00:36:29):
Lip masks too, right?

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:30):
I, I have, I have friends who actually work at the met and it's like one of them one of them got COVID because they rehearse in masks, but on stage they gotta be singing right next to each other in character anyway. So that's why they have such a strict policy of, they don't even care about a positive test. If you even just have a sniffle, guess what? You're out for two weeks. Does it

Leo Laporte (00:36:50):
Look like this?

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:52):
No,

Alex Lindsay (00:36:53):
Its way bigger. It's way bigger. It's like a huge duck bill. Like it's a huge

Leo Laporte (00:36:57):
Duck bill. It's like, yeah. It's like, that's why I got this though, because you don't, this is a, this is a N 95 from think Kimberly Clark. But you don't, it doesn't touch your, your mouth or your lips. So you can,

Alex Lindsay (00:37:07):
That's a really cool one. It's a good

Leo Laporte (00:37:09):
One. No, what

Alex Lindsay (00:37:10):
You

Rene Ritchie (00:37:10):
Can like from Gid,

Alex Lindsay (00:37:12):
It looks

Leo Laporte (00:37:12):
A little bit like Donald

Alex Lindsay (00:37:13):
Tuck. So, but, but it's better. Cause the one that, the one that, the one that we've learned, you know, we just did an interview with someone who does COVID research and they're like, yeah, the cloth ones are worthless. <Laugh> just, he like blood out. He was like, he's like, you might

Leo Laporte (00:37:26):
Be. I mean, it was better than nothing, I guess. Hey, I warns, I made him, I never got COVID.

Alex Lindsay (00:37:31):
So it worked somehow. He said it was better. He said it was actually what he said was, is it better than nothing but not much? Yeah. Well, nothing I

Rene Ritchie (00:37:38):
Found like real, the thing that I thought was really irksome was when, like, after like you saw GDC and you saw PS enough, a couple other events and people got COVID afterwards. And then people were like, yeah, I went, I had COVID I didn't wear a mask, but I didn't wanna miss out. You know? So I just plant anyway. And you're just like I don't wanna in a crowd of a thousand people, you're gonna have a few people like that. Yeah. So like, I, I think the safety, the safety is I pretty much

Alex Lindsay (00:37:59):
Warranted with, with the government sending them to us. Anytime I go to a large event, I just test. Absolutely. Like I just, just like, I'll just test myself, make sure. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:38:08):
Just a, just a very quick post group. Before we leave that topic. I have, I've had three friends in the past two or three weeks get test positive. Some of them, it's not just some of them are it's. Oh, well, geez. I've been triple vacs and oh, I feel a little bit under the weather, but like a little CLO cold. One of them is again, has been quadruple vexed and it's like, she had a couple of good days and then she was flattening her back for a day, starting to recover a little bit the next day. So don't think that just because you're VAX is it's a solved problem.

Leo Laporte (00:38:36):
Absolutely not. I'm quadruple of ax, but I'm still wearing my mask, everyone. Hey any, before we leave the real topic of the day, which is WWDC and again, this Monday, so the next time we gather, we will know the answers. Anything else? We'll see iOS 16, we'll see. 16 Mac OS

Rene Ritchie (00:38:58):
13,

Leo Laporte (00:38:59):
Whatever is next, right after Monterey, mammoth, or Mac O S 13 Mac O S 13. And those will be for fall delivery, presumably as always. Yep.

Rene Ritchie (00:39:08):
Ipad O S 16 TV O S 16, watch OS nine and maybe reality OS one

Leo Laporte (00:39:12):
And one hopes that they will go through those and talk about new features. Yeah, yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:39:16):
Yep. They, they did, they did drop another beta today, I think, which was kind of a high velocity drop. Yeah. So maybe, maybe the next, next iteration is gonna, is going next iteration of the release. Version's gonna come out.

Leo Laporte (00:39:27):
Next. One of, one of the analysts says, now that a billion people, 1 billion people use safari on both Mac OS and iOS. So, and usually they'll announce safari updates kind of as a separate thing, cuz so many people use it. So that'll be interesting as well. Yeah. like

Rene Ritchie (00:39:42):
A platform web is like the sec, the, the unspoken platform.

Leo Laporte (00:39:45):
But if we do not wanna be disappointed, we should just stick with that. <Laugh> stick with soft. So,

Rene Ritchie (00:39:52):
And the other big thing is like, I see this so often on Twitter and it's really bewildering to me. It's like reads, every leak then says it's boring. Then says there was no surprises and then gets angry.

Leo Laporte (00:40:01):
It's like, yeah, I know if I read

Rene Ritchie (00:40:03):
The script to star wars and then I go watch it. I've like, and it's not surprising. That's that's on me. Right. You know, like I I'm grown ass adult. I have that

Leo Laporte (00:40:09):
Choice. So, so you

Rene Ritchie (00:40:11):
Enjoy the leagues or don't yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:40:12):
We're, we're trying to dampen your spirits. No, we're trying to dampen your expectations. Apple will dampen your spirits on Monday and we'll all be here for it. And of course you'll have your choice three different ways. Well, there's probably many, many more, but you can always watch Apple's own stream, I guess. Is it still HLS only you have to use a safari. No,

Alex Lindsay (00:40:32):
No, no. You can watch it. You can watch it on, on Android and PCs.

Leo Laporte (00:40:35):
It'll it'll okay. So watch it on YouTube. If you wanna watch our coverage, we do not go on YouTube because we don't want Apple to get mad at us. So you can watch our stream in other places, you know, where office hours.global. Of course you'll be doing your we're on YouTube and you are on YouTube and you did not get pulled down, but you don't show the keynote. Right. You just talk at

Alex Lindsay (00:40:56):
It. Yeah. Ours is the most complicated pipeline to cover the show. So we are still assuming that you're watching it somewhere else. Right. So basically what we're doing, we

Leo Laporte (00:41:05):
Need two screens to do

Alex Lindsay (00:41:06):
This. The panelists, the panelists are going to hear the keynote and see it in our zoom window. But you'll only hear us talking about it. Right. So, so it's, it is a it's a second. It's truly a second ear experience. The reason we have to do that is because otherwise the panelists get it at different times and someone's like, yeah. And we're like, why? He's just finishing up.

Leo Laporte (00:41:27):
Understand smart. Yeah. Because, so, so I've noticed this, you know, we'll be watching our chat room, we're watching the stream, the chat room knows already. What's gonna be announced. And so, and it can make if I wanted to, but I, I try not to make me look very smart saying, you know, I think this is gonna be 7 99. It is. It is what a shock. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (00:41:45):
I'm nothing like living in the future. So yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:41:47):
So we're but then there's be, there's be a YouTube drama video saying you're cheating. Yeah. Middle apart, cheating and dump bumped up to see bingo.

Leo Laporte (00:41:52):
Oh God. Oh God.

Alex Lindsay (00:41:55):
Yeah. So, so anyway, so that's, that's, that's how we're gonna do it. Good. And we'll see how it goes.

Leo Laporte (00:41:58):
Office hours act global. And then of course others I'm sure will be streaming it there. Do people still do live blogs? I guess it doesn't make quite as much sense if you're not in the room and there is a stream, I think

Rene Ritchie (00:42:08):
The verge did, but

Leo Laporte (00:42:09):
I think they still do it. Yeah. It's kind of old school. I like it. They should do it from a phone booth.

Rene Ritchie (00:42:14):
Well, some people are at work and they can't watch a video or listen to it. So they like having little text updates going by. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:42:20):
Oh,

Rene Ritchie (00:42:20):
That's true. Mac rumors, I think. Does it on Twitter? They do it like a whole Twitter Mac room events or something. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:42:25):
Cool. All

Rene Ritchie (00:42:27):
And Jason does it, Jason, Dan, I believe still.

Leo Laporte (00:42:29):
So this is it. This is it. We're not gonna talk about it anymore. Last chance. Put in your bids. What should be on the bingo card? We've got U S D, Z and keynote for Alex. I'm still holding that hope for an M two MacBook air, but I know I'm wrong. Renee saying it might happen all the software and

Rene Ritchie (00:42:48):
It, but you know, the real bingo card. Oh, well the real bingo card is the friends we make along the way. But the other real bingo card is Tim cook saying good morning and innovation and Craig making a joke about the crack marketing team. Yeah. And whether Eddie or Jaz has the best shirt, you know, and like there's a whole bunch of like just meta stuff that we

Leo Laporte (00:43:04):
Make meta meta for those who've watched met him at a, for those who watched many keynotes,

Rene Ritchie (00:43:07):
How they're gonna screw over Facebook for a third year in a row with the privacy policy.

Alex Lindsay (00:43:12):
We,

Andy Ihnatko (00:43:12):
We, we can also think about like what the, what the name of the next O west is going to be. So, and, and, and to see which if, if, once again, they chose the name based on his comedy potential for the keynote.

Leo Laporte (00:43:23):
Oh, interesting.

Rene Ritchie (00:43:24):
Like remember OS 10 weed and yeah. Rancho cook manga.

Leo Laporte (00:43:27):
Yeah. I saw somebody said mammoth. I like mammoth

Rene Ritchie (00:43:31):
OS 10 bottom.

Leo Laporte (00:43:35):
Hey, if you're about to, they pulled

Rene Ritchie (00:43:36):
This one right out of our oops. <Laugh> they could have had Dre announced OS 10 south central and never did. That was a total waste of opportunity.

Leo Laporte (00:43:44):
Oh, good. That'd be good. Yeah. Are Dre and Jimmy ive now long gone from Apple, Apple park. Yes.

Rene Ritchie (00:43:49):
Yes. They, they are spending time with their money <laugh> yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:43:54):
Oh my God. That is worth that whole, whole story. Oliver worth reading. It's

Rene Ritchie (00:43:58):
Oliver. Olivia took over from Eddie's Lieutenant who used to manage iTunes all outside of the us Oliver show something I'm blanking on

Leo Laporte (00:44:05):
His last name now in

Rene Ritchie (00:44:05):
Charge. He took over for Eddie as the creative sort of director for that element.

Alex Lindsay (00:44:10):
The funny thing I was talking to someone at beats was in engineering at one time and, and they, and they said, yeah, we thought we knew a lot about audio. Like we were gonna bring show Apple how to do audio for headsets and everything else. And then we met their team and they were like, I don't even know why they bought us. <Laugh> like, like the team was so far ahead of them that yeah. Was thinking about things. They, they were thinking about things that we hadn't even imagined. Yeah. They were working, they were getting, they, it was working and, but the, but the, the brand and the, and the and a lot of the bits and pieces there were useful. The, the contracts with the, just the Jimmy

Leo Laporte (00:44:39):
Cache.

Alex Lindsay (00:44:40):
Yeah. And the cache. Yeah. It was, it was, it was a very successful merger, but, but it was,

Leo Laporte (00:44:45):
Yeah. In hindsight it was, I thought it was really dumb. And in the trip nickel book, you, you know, you really kind of say, well, this really didn't, this was cuckoo

Alex Lindsay (00:44:53):
<Laugh> they made a lot of money with it.

Leo Laporte (00:44:54):
Yeah. Turned out

Alex Lindsay (00:44:55):
Definit. It was definitely cash. A cash positive.

Leo Laporte (00:44:57):
Yeah. Yeah. I wanna show you the most comfortable earbuds made today. And these are my ultimate ears and I highly recommend them for years. I've worn ultimate ears that are molded. I have to go to an audiologist. They mold, they, they make the thing, these are very, very expensive. The kind of headphones that, you know, rock stars wear, you see, but this is in a way, an inexpensive way to get the same comfort, very much of the same fit. It's ultimate ears. UE fits our show today, brought to you by ultimate ears fits. And I love these. If I wanna wear my earbuds for a long time, this is what I wear. They fit into my ear very similarly to my in ear monitors, but they do all the things that, you know, fancy headphones do. They have, you know you can have Siri in here.

Leo Laporte (00:45:43):
You can have your Google assistant. Let me show you. I, we actually when I got these, we did the process of fitting in my UE fits you open the box and they're sealed because as soon as they're exposed to air, they, they start doing something kind of magical. They start molding to your ear. They use light to do it. So you unseal the fits and you put 'em in your ear and you get in 60 seconds. No audiologist required a perfect fit. It fits so well. They stay put when you're on the go, okay? So I'm gonna put 'em in the ear. Now press the button. And a blue light comes on. They warm up a little bit. They warm up a little bit. As they're molding themselves, they're contouring themselves to your ear. I love this using something. They call light form technology, groundbreaking technology.

Leo Laporte (00:46:35):
They mold to the contours of your ear. Two benefits to that benefit. Number one, they fit like nothing else you've ever had before they fit perfectly, which means a great seal. Great base. Great comfort benefit. Number two, no one can steal 'em cause they're for you. <Laugh> put 'em in connect to the app. Watch the purple LEDs form the earbuds to your unique shape. You get eight hours of continuous playback on a single charge 20 hours with a charging case. I really love the soft Riverstone contours of the charging case. It's really comfortable, really beautiful. And the sound, of course, it's built on industry leading expertise. Ultimate ears has been trusted by pro musicians and high-fi enthusiast for over 25 years. You want a description of it? It's a, it's a full, very warm sound. It's got a great punchy, tight, low end.

Leo Laporte (00:47:25):
The high end is crisp. Of course you have complete control of it with custom EQ presets in the app, you could play and pause music. You can answer calls. Yes, it's got a microphone built into it. And and volume adjustment, all that can be set to custom actions in the app. And even if you, you know, try these and you don't love 'em as much as I do, don't worry because ultimate ears offers a 30 day money back guarantee. Even though these are molded to your ears, free shipping free returns, a one year warranty. If you're looking for earbuds that are comfortable, that you can wear all day, that work beautifully. You wanna try these, go to ue.com/fits. And I want you to use the promo code Mac break, just to let 'em know you saw it here. UE fits ue.com/fits to get your pair. Promo code is Mac break. These are my go-tos. Now this is all I, this is like I have in my pocket all the time. Cuz I love these so much. Ue.Com/Fitz Fitz. Okay. You've already talked me off the ledge with the WWDC. I think Paul Hudson will have some, a love letter, a love letter. Thank you. It's the friends we make along the way. Thank you for reminding me. Yes. That's what really counts. Yes. <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:48:46):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:48:47):
Michael se, who is a longtime Apple developer put together a a, a, a link role of tweets about swift UI in 2022. And when you read this, it's pretty, it starts good. Even if you already know a bit or lot Stanford's course is incredible. I agree. And then it's half the O iOS devs on my list. Keep posting stuff. Like here's how I shipped an amazing full featured cross platform, swift UI app and 10 minutes. And the other half are like button presses have been broken and swift UI for 16 months and Apple hasn't ever brought responded. My radar. If you go through this, it is Steve Trouten Smith swift UI remains incompetent at basic layout. Something playground users are gonna find out the hard way. He had

Rene Ritchie (00:49:35):
A really good point too, where he said that the fact that Apple couples swift UI with software releases rather than having it be its own independent developer thing is really problematic because something can change in swift UI in the new version of Mac, west, or iOS that he has to then fix. And that sometimes a fix is not easy. And what do you do with your app? That's out there broken in the meantime, but if it was more like like, like it was its own upgrade, then at least he could say this is supported up to this version of swift UI. And this is supported up to that version of swift UI. So this obviously like a lot of group had a good line too, where he said like for 80% of the stuff you wanna do, it's the best thing ever. And then for that last 20%, you just wanna throw yourself across the room.

Leo Laporte (00:50:13):
Yeah. Marco armed. I like a lot of it, but it's not simple, easy or mature. It's conceptual elegance and clean presentation. Slide code are quickly ruined by common real world needs. And you frequently slam hard into walls that you just can't overcome. It's a whole list. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (00:50:33):
And it's super interesting because like swift UI, like it, it was sort of homegrown. Like there, I won't get into too many details, but there was someone working on the watch OS team and they were working on things like all of the complications. And they started building this out as like a watch framework in order for, to make it easier to make all of the stuff that you wanted to make for the watch things that were highly visual, but very lightweight and had very specific requirements on low powered, all of these different concerns. And Craig saw it and said, well, why don't we just do this everywhere? And this very specific piece of watch gear or kit was then turned into swift UI. And the, the people behind it are brilliant, but it, I think like Apple got really excited about it. And then 20, 20 and 2021 happened and their ability to move it forward got highly limited. And now they just have to really dig in and, and live up to the dream to the promise that they made developers two years ago, swift

Leo Laporte (00:51:23):
UI was to replace UI kit. You can still use UI kit, right. I mean is 

Rene Ritchie (00:51:28):
Informa interface builder maybe more than just UI kit.

Leo Laporte (00:51:31):
Okay. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:51:32):
Like it's a way of like, it's a declarative language, like the whole point of swift UI. And I won't get too far into the weeds with it is that instead of you having to draw a yellow button, you can just say, this is a yellow button. And the OS will interpret that across platforms like this is the appropriate yellow button on Mac OS, but this is the appropriate yellow button on watch OS. And you won't have to code that over and over again. You're just declaring what it's, what it is. And then it's interpreting the states to go with the general guidelines of that environment. And that can save a ton of time. But when you start to get into all the things that developers really want to do, you start running into those walls,

Leo Laporte (00:52:03):
Steve trout and Smith. Again, the harsh reality of swift UI in 2022 is it does not enable a competent dev to build a better app. It gives you a lesser than native, less reliable, less compatible, less debug app, a Two-T system where third parties may never be able to compete with Apple's own short of a major advancement at WWDC 22, with regard to reliability, configurability, and backwards compatibility. I'm not sure swift you, I will ever be the right technology for my app. So Steve and many, many more will be watching with interest on Monday.

Alex Lindsay (00:52:36):
Just I think ever, ever is a big, ever's a big word

Leo Laporte (00:52:39):
<Laugh> ever like,

Alex Lindsay (00:52:40):
Like I, well,

Leo Laporte (00:52:41):
But you understand if you're on, if you're on the ground developing with so UI, you can understand why they might be,

Alex Lindsay (00:52:46):
Oh, I, I understand what people are upset. And I think that, that they have a lot of work to do. You know, building frameworks is complicated. It's why people don't like build plugins or APIs cause they don't want to deal with anybody else trying to use it. So, so the, the, it takes a while to, to get those. But when people, anytime someone says never ever, like when my kids say never, never, I immediately give them a whole bunch of exceptions. Yeah. Like, like I bet you'll do it. This happens. Yeah. Like it just like ever, never once. I don't think this will ever work. I mean, that's, those are big words. You know, that, that, you know, couple years you might decide that that might be worth it, but

Leo Laporte (00:53:22):
This is what Apple's pushing is its primary way to develop apps for Mac.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:26):
And I think almost everybody knows that, that you can't do everything in swift two UI right now. Right. I mean, I think that that's, I mean, that's a kind of common knowledge that you do what you can in swift two UI. It's great. Okay. You use the other things when you, when you can't. I, I don't think that I don't even know if Apple selling that. I, I think they're having, they have enough trouble getting Apple to engineers to, you know, right on that path.

Andy Ihnatko (00:53:44):
But, but that's not the, that's not the nature of, of a lot of these complaints. A lot of these complaints is that this was working and then there was an update and now it's not working again. Or here is something that the documentation says super work, just fine as demonstrated. But then I do it. And not only is that this not working, but it's not responding to any attempts to diagnose the problem. So that's, that's gotta be absolutely doubly frustrating, but that's, that's when you start to feel as though the company that created this this system for you is actually working against your interest and not just is simply indifferent to your, to your needs.

Alex Lindsay (00:54:16):
Just, all I gotta say is why don't go back to react native and see how it works. Cause I, I, I work on development teams where we work, react native and it's like, it's like, it's literally, like, there is a button here when you pull it. The whole building will fall down. <Laugh> so it's so it's all, all development platforms have their own, their own issue. That's all, that's all,

Leo Laporte (00:54:34):
There is a it

Alex Lindsay (00:54:35):
Needs to be updated. I'm just saying that when we say that it's like different than any other development platform, I don't know what, what development platforms we're working with that have a ton of libraries.

Andy Ihnatko (00:54:44):
So well, I, I, I, I, I, I take your point definitely that, that there's gonna be again, mankind is born and born into hardship just as surely as the sparks, as these sparks fly upward says leus in one of those peanut strips when he's quoting the Bible that I don't know about. But yeah, the, the, the problem is there seem to be other ways around it when you're using other languages and other systems in order to create max software. The problem, the problem is that swift gives you simplicity, but as is often the case, the trade off and simplicity is the lack of control. So that assume something stops working. You just don't have you're, you don't have, you're not empowered to find a way to solve the problem. You have to wait for Apple to solve the problem for you, and then hope that in the intervening time they don't change the methodology. So that the stuff that was broken will be wished into the cornfield to begin with.

Leo Laporte (00:55:35):
Anyways,

Rene Ritchie (00:55:35):
This brilliant, there was this brilliant exchange yesterday on Twitter with Ken K Shinda, who was the original he worked a lot of stuff at Apple. He worked one of the first people to work on safari. He did the iPhone keyboard for years. He worked on the watch and he said like, there's seven attributes for good software. It's simple, consistent, composable, scalable, obvious, communicative, and accommodating. And then Dr. Wave jumped on immediately saying, yeah, but you gotta put those in a priority order because every one of them is a compromise on the other.

Leo Laporte (00:56:02):
Yeah, I would love to see, I mean, as long as you're gonna ask for U SD Z and keynote, I'm gonna ask for better support for progressive web apps in in safari. Apple has, I think, dropped the ball on that one, but it's, it'd be sure nice to see that to

Rene Ritchie (00:56:17):
Getting better. And they have this little thing that shows how much they're compatible. Now. I forget that it's a cross browser standard that they worked on with Google and Firefox and a bunch of others. It shows how many features you fully support, how many you support in experimental mode. How many are in development mode? And it's, it's a really good way to see, of course the fire's got a really good score cuz they, they, they support a ton of features that aren't related to progressive web apps. Right. but it's, it's just overall, like they seem to be much more engaged with with compatibility than before.

Leo Laporte (00:56:42):
Good. All right. Well, I'd love to see that. I'd love to see him say something about BWA it, on Monday I'll put that on my, well, you know,

Rene Ritchie (00:56:51):
Like their issue with it is that like they have a native operating system. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:56:55):
No, no. Where

Rene Ritchie (00:56:55):
Google for a large doesn't and Microsoft abandoned theirs. Right. So for Apples, like just make a native app and everyone else is like, we don't do that anymore. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:57:03):
Users would love it if we could. Well, I mean, the reason I say it is because it'd be great. If I could make a PWA for a twit that would work on all platforms, but we can't, well, we can make it on every platform, but Apple, I guess that's just what we'll do.

Rene Ritchie (00:57:17):
We could make an electron app, right. That would do

Leo Laporte (00:57:19):
Just, yeah. You could do an electron app. That's kind of not,

Rene Ritchie (00:57:23):
But that's, that's what the, the mass market idea of a progressive web app is these days

Leo Laporte (00:57:27):
Moving that forward. It's such a pig. Electron apps are just, oh, they're virus. It's a whole, they're like viruses. It's a whole,

Rene Ritchie (00:57:35):
It's just like multiple versions of Chrome.

Leo Laporte (00:57:37):
Yeah. Sadia has prevailed against Apple, at least in the early part of the battle Sadia, which is a third party app store, which, you know, you can't really use on iOS unless you jail break. Your iOS J Freeman Sark Sue a sued and judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers last Thursday said he could present his claim against the company. Apple asked that the bid bid that the complaint be dismissed first sued Apple at the end of 2020 saying the company had an illegal monopoly over iOS app distribution judge Rogers at that point, dismissed Sid's initial complaint saying the suit fell outside the statute of limitations, but she allowed him to amend his case, which he did the latest complaint, Sadia argues, iOS updates, Apple release between 2018 and 2021 constitute overacts that harm distributors like the city, a store judge Gonzalez, Rogers found that sufficient. Yeah. To say, okay, you can move ahead.

Rene Ritchie (00:58:44):
And there not a lot of judges, like Apple seems to get the same judges over and around. And she's brilliant. I love, I love her. She's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. But I always hear the same judges in all the Apple cases.

Leo Laporte (00:58:52):
I think it's cuz of the dis of the jurisdiction, you know, Apples Andina. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:58:56):
But yeah, that, that, that is significant. The reason why she threw out the original case was that one of the things they were asserting is that every single time a develop a new developer signs up with Apple every single time they publish an app constitutes a new infraction. And so therefore would reset the four year

Leo Laporte (00:59:13):
Updates. Yeah, yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (00:59:14):
Yeah. The four year clock for, for filing a lawsuit. And that's why she threw it out in early January. But again said that by that that's the only reason why we're not letting this go forward. But if you, if you, if you wanna try it again, <laugh> by all means go through. So now their argument is that they, that Apple made specific changes to how iOS handles apps in 2018 and 20 on 19. This is unrelated to the, the security flaws. They keep patching to make sure that you can't side load apps without permission. They said that they're making the case that no, they, they fundamentally changed how iOS handles apps so that even if CIA could install an app, it would not be executed for an any number of reasons for this technology that was introduced in 20 18, 20 19. The judge rule that, yes, this is a brand, this, this, this does constitute a brand new infraction. And therefore that does fall within the four year, four year purview, Apple basically raised the same objection they did last time. And the judge said, Nope, guess what? Let's, we'll see it. We'll see you next week. Cuz we're this case is on.

Leo Laporte (01:00:15):
So this is one more place where Apple is, you know, facing a court three over there, over there. Yeah. I know it doesn't work three years.

Alex Lindsay (01:00:23):
Like it like this'll be, I mean the, the EU, the EU is much more of a clear and present. You know, I think that I think the, the time is passing on, on the us legislation. So I think that the EU is really where the Battlefront probably is. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:00:37):
The, the fight to unionize Apple retail continues Apple stores in New York, Maryland, and Atlanta all announced their intention to U unionize along with Louisville, Kentucky. I think Atlanta stores saying that in there was too much intimidation has put off their vote. Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:01:01):
Actually they would the, the national label relations board where, which is where they have to notify the intention to have this, this election. They basically notify them three or four days ago that they were with withdrawing their, their, their notification. And just today, as a matter of fact, the NLRB acknowledged and processed it. So now that's off. Although the, although the weird thing is that the reason why I know that it was processed today was because I, I was looking to see if the union and the, any of these employees had filed a new grievance against Apple with the NLRB related to what they claim to be is harassment and intimidation and violation of United States, labor laws, no such I couldn't find any such filing yet. So, okay. They they're, they're saying that they had 70% support amongst the workers who were going to be eligible to vote. But the intimidation that Apple had fi had been applying against them was just too great to overcome, which sounds suspicious. I would like to, I, I think we're all waiting to see like actual examples of what do you, what do you think they actually did to, to intimidate people so bad that you would not put on an election where you felt as though 70% of the voters would vote to unionize your shop? That's kind of interesting. Don't you think?

Leo Laporte (01:02:11):
Apple's HR head Deidra O'Brien gave a recorded speech to Apple stores. You know, they <laugh>, who also heard their retail head retail head as well now. Right? That's right. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:02:21):
Well, she's not anymore. I think, I think the HR has moved to somebody else, but

Leo Laporte (01:02:24):
I think she's become people head. She took over when Angela Aarons left. She are you not getting my audio John or

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
A collective bargain agreement?

Leo Laporte (01:02:34):
This is vice 

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Over the last few years, we have been through so much together and we've worked hard to always pull together.

Leo Laporte (01:02:43):
This is again what a lot of companies do. Amazon's done it. They, they go out, they hire litigators as Apple did. They've hired the same litigators, Apple Amazon did to kind of union bust, to discourage employees from voting for a union. And then they have required meetings where employees have to sit down and listen to executives, explain to them why a union would be such a bad idea.

Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
Our guiding principles throughout is to do our best to do what's right. And to always support each other and like our

Leo Laporte (01:03:16):
Credos, unless you want a union. Okay, sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
To learn and to grow and together, we've made so many changes and adjustments to the way we support our customers. And the way we support you from raising pay to giving special bonuses from additional vacation and sick leave days,

Leo Laporte (01:03:33):
It's fair for them to make their case. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but, but they're, you know, you

Andy Ihnatko (01:03:38):
Father and I give and we give and

Leo Laporte (01:03:40):
We give,

Andy Ihnatko (01:03:41):
And this is the thanks weekend.

Leo Laporte (01:03:42):
<Laugh> she says, well, I'll play some more. You can

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
Enjoy it. Leave to paid family care and emergency backup care for all team members, fulltime and daycare. I am deeply committed to making Apple the best. It can be for you, everything from scheduling to paying benefits,

Leo Laporte (01:04:04):
You know, and that's compelling if, if you feel like we

Speaker 5 (01:04:06):
Have room to improve, and there are some areas where we need to move even faster. And I'm always, so at union that you share feedback with us so that we can build our plans together. Very soon, we'll be sharing the results of our most recent pulse survey of the saying that feedback is a gift. It truly is look forward to continuing to build on our very special culture.

Leo Laporte (01:04:31):
She says, I'm worried about what it would mean to put another organization in the middle of our relationship, an organization that doesn't have a deep understanding of Apple or our business and does not share our commitment to you as you pointed out, Andy, I think on Sunday, Apple just gave its retail workers a boost saying the starting wage would now be $22 an hour instead of $20 an hour. But I think you, it was you who pointed that out on Sunday that that might be in response to the unionization effort. Yeah. I

Andy Ihnatko (01:04:59):
Mean,

Leo Laporte (01:05:00):
<Laugh>, which shows that they could have done it any time.

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:03):
Yeah. And, and it's, you're, you're free to think whatever you want. I'm not saying that my opinion on this is, is absolutely the right one. I'm just saying that it's, it is this paternalistic attitude towards employees where, gosh, don't, we take such good care of you and you're really part of our family. And then when you ask mom and dad for, Hey, how about a raise my allowance then suddenly you're, you're not, not a member of the family anymore. You're just some sort of peon and the reason. And there's been a history of complaints about employ firm employees about their positions at Apple retail. And really they're not addressed until it becomes a PR problem. In which case they suddenly Apple suddenly decides that, okay, well maybe, or formal complaints are made. And maybe at that point, they decide that, okay, maybe we won't force you to punch out at five o'clock, but then stay in the store until 5 25, 25, 5 30, waiting for security to check your bags, to make sure you're not stealing anything from us.

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:01):
And it's, it's not, it's really is the difference between a large company that just simply wants to be able to do what it wants, what it feels is right. What it thinks, it's how they think they can make its workers happy, or at least stop complaining versus employees who have the right to strike, who have the right to to collective bargaining and that if they do decide that, well, look, we've been, we've been complaining consistently about this issue for three or 4, 5, 6 months. You have not done anything. You've not even acknowledged anything. We have basically filed the paperwork for a strike. We're all walking out at at 10:00 AM on Monday. And suddenly, if you're in the suddenly, if you are unionized, you don't ha you have a whole bunch of rights protected by the federal government. That Apple is gonna have to cons couldn't have to consider, I'm gonna have to deal with, whereas if you're not a member of the union, well, God, guess what we've fired you for?

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:53):
Cause because you didn't show up for work on that day. Yeah. So this is this, I, I, I do believe that I don't believe that Apple is, is an evil company. I don't think they're mean, I don't think they're screws. I don't think they're abusive employers, but I do think that I, a lot of people get annoyed when I remind them that Apple's a $2 trillion company. But again, when you have a huge company, that's a lopsided balance of power and a, a unionized workforce can help give those employees some of the power to negotiate and to complain and to make sure that they're treated seriously and not just as a PR problem. 

Rene Ritchie (01:07:26):
The, I don't think we'll be seeing a TV plus show about this the way we do it. Yeah, no, but

Andy Ihnatko (01:07:30):
I don't, I don't think norm, norm, Norma, Norma Ray, the TV series is not gonna not coming to Apple TV. Plus

Rene Ritchie (01:07:37):
I also think like, like I understand that even like big companies can be like afraid of the unknown, like, you know, some of all their fears and they have something going and they have control over it. And these things are changes and changes are scary. And it's hard to believe like a 3 trillion company is scared by things like this, but they are. And I think it would just be such a better world because Apple is in such a position and they've taken such a role of leadership in so many civil and societal areas that if they look at this as an opportunity, like regardless of how it all processes out store bys, I don't know how it all susses out store by. I dunno how it works in America. American labor laws are so confusing to me, to be honest with you. I dunno how it works, but even if it's stored by store, just look at the potential, the opportunities and the benefits that could accrue this whole tech thing with where they hire out all these, like they contract out all these jobs. Lot of it is so distasteful when it comes from companies that are this big and keep saying, they have such a commitment to their workforces and to all of these things. And they could be making such like, like, I know it's great that they involve themselves in societal issues. I think that's fantastic, but they could be so doing so much to lead by example and just how they run their companies. And I hope they, they think about that more deeply.

Leo Laporte (01:08:36):
Mikah decided that he wanted to bypass the Apple's, the darn Apple store, and he ordered the big boxes. These he's ready. Is he ready to fix the iPhone? He's gonna fix his own. He could

Rene Ritchie (01:08:48):
Get into, he could fit in one of those

Leo Laporte (01:08:50):
70, what is it? 76 pounds in two different Pelican cases. But that's just the tools. What we found out was Apple ships, the tools separately from the parts. Yeah. So the tools came and sat for a week. You only get seven days before you have to return 'em or they'll charge you. So they sat for a week while we waited for the battery, the battery never came. We called and said, Hey, can we have an extension? And they said, Nope, seven days is up, send it in. Or you're gonna be paying 1100 bucks for these fine tools. Since we decided we didn't want to keep the tools. We, they are pretty nice. I mean, look, this is Apple's

Rene Ritchie (01:09:32):
Response use

Leo Laporte (01:09:33):
This. This is the Apple's response to the, you know, right to repair is okay. We'll we'll ha let you have the parts. We'll let, we'll rent you the tools. You can see, obviously you don't wanna buy these. They're very fancy, very elaborate, very expensive. I

Rene Ritchie (01:09:47):
Mean, you can get the, I fix it ones if you don't want these, like, they'll just give you the battery too, if you want.

Leo Laporte (01:09:51):
Right. Does it, but does is that as good as an Apple repair? Or do you, I mean, no,

Rene Ritchie (01:09:56):
Louis Rossman had a brilliant video. Like the verge wrote an article on this and I did not expect a video that Lewis Rossman gave me about this issue. I thought he'd be going, yeah. He's like, this is why, why is the verge making me defend Apple? And he's like, you shouldn't be complaining that they give you tools. You should be complaining about the 900 things they're still not doing for right. To repair this at least

Leo Laporte (01:10:14):
A yeah. I mean, it's a very limited set of, of phones. You can't do any older phones. The phones really do need do.

Rene Ritchie (01:10:20):
Imaculately like if you are a mic, Mikah is way more intelligent. I could never, I could never even look at to do this, but he's also incredibly precise and maybe Mikah would be okay doing it with like the spoos that you, and like the microwaves that you get from, I fix it. A lot of people are, but there are some people who are gonna be like, I need the screen to be perfect

Leo Laporte (01:10:37):
Incidentally,

Rene Ritchie (01:10:38):
Exactly the

Leo Laporte (01:10:38):
Way shortly after we returned.

Rene Ritchie (01:10:42):
Oh no,

Leo Laporte (01:10:44):
The kit, the battery did come. And so now Mikah two hours, did he end up he only had two hours, so there go the we wanted, we didn't wanna pay for the tools. I'm thinking twit should have paid. So this is important to understand if you're thinking about doing this, by the way, after all said and done, you're not saving any money. The cost ends up being very close to what it would cost to have an Apple store do it. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:11:11):
And Apple's losing a ton of money shipping, all those tools all around for 49 bucks. I mean like the whole thing is,

Andy Ihnatko (01:11:16):
Is wacky, but it, but it is, but, but it is a really, really big deal that there, there, there are people in this country that don't have an Apple store within, even an hour's drive away,

Leo Laporte (01:11:25):
But you can mail it to Apple. You don't have to have a store. You can mail it to Apple. It's hard to be

Rene Ritchie (01:11:29):
Without your phone for that long though.

Leo Laporte (01:11:30):
Oh yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:11:31):
Right, exactly. So, so, so it's not nothing, but I, I think that this is the, this is the way that they decided to interpret user user done repair. Just to simply say, we, we can't create the infrastructure to validate procedures and tools for, I fix it, but we can ship. We can ship out our own tools and write up and write up instructions, even write up, running up. Instructions does not not cheap that costs a lot of money to, to create that documentation. But I, but you'd think that I I'm pretty I'm if I have to guess, I'm guessing that they sh they shipped the tools via, via air, but it was a lithium battery. So they had to ship that via ground and that's wet leg behind, but that's something that they should have been able to anticipate. And they should have basically said they, they, they should have shipped them both ground, or they simply should have said the clock star, the clock starts as the seven day clock starts running. As soon as the, your order complete.

Leo Laporte (01:12:23):
We, it remains to be seen whether as Apple committed to self repair, in which case they'll fix that problem, or is this just, Apple's malicious compliance saying, sure. You can fix it, have fun. And I think it's on, they

Rene Ritchie (01:12:37):
Would've gotten trouble either way though. Like they didn't make these available. People would be going, Apple's not even giving us the same tools that they gave us. Like they should have both options. Like you should be able to choose the tools or something easier. It would be best. Can you buy, you can buy

Leo Laporte (01:12:48):
Those tools too, right? It's not just rent. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to write 'em you can buy 'em. So a small repair shop, the problem is you only can repair the brand new iPhone se the 12 and the 13. So the phones that do need batteries, which are iPhone six seventy eight, you can't repair yourself. So you're gonna have to give those to Apple anyway. So I really feel like that

Rene Ritchie (01:13:08):
Was just the 12 and 13.

Leo Laporte (01:13:10):
Yeah. This is very much the, the new se not even cuz I had the, I se too, and they couldn't get a repair kit for that. So.

Rene Ritchie (01:13:19):
Oh, interesting. I feel

Leo Laporte (01:13:20):
Like this is Apple's lip service. I

Rene Ritchie (01:13:22):
Think we'll know from more when the M one Mac cuz they're supposed to roll out M one Mac repair

Leo Laporte (01:13:25):
Next. That'll be interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:13:27):
Yeah. I think I I'll I'll I'll really judge them a year from now because this really does seem like something that they rolled out on, on a shorter timetable than perhaps they would've liked. They have the examples of Samsung and Google to go by working with, I fix it both Samsung and Google. They will, they, they work with if, fix it directly, they provide them with actual legitimate parts. They verify that the tools and the techniques that they have are absolutely correct. And they are basically being cons. I fix is being constrict conscripted into like the local repair Depot for both of these products. So they've set a standard that I think Apple reasonably needs to match right now because that's not doing it. Especially when I framework, if the framework laptop is absolutely flowing everybody away by the, that not only their, not only they do building a laptop that can be easily repaired on a, on a very low level by anybody with just one or two simple tools.

Andy Ihnatko (01:14:24):
Not only can you buy replacement parts, not only can you upgrade this laptop by buying the 20, 22 version of the logic board and swapping out your 20, 20, 20, 21 logic board, they recently responded to complaints from like the, the big, like again, loose Rossman style repair people saying, well, it's useless without schematics said, oh, okay, we'll give you schematics. Like, okay, you no longer, you no longer have the ACI scope and trace signals from one place or another. If you want to know like what the, the, where this capacitor is connected to and why power's not getting to that, just download the schematic and we'll show you not again. I, I appreciate that few companies can do this, but they are answering the question of they they're, they're basically causing a lot of itchy underwear for companies are saying, but it be, it would be absolutely impossible to do. It's not technically possible to, to build a computer this way or run a company this way, like mm mm.

Leo Laporte (01:15:17):
And to their credit, they had, they had some, they had some complaints about the floppy lids. So I have a framework. I love it. I built, I assembled it myself. And now I'm thinking, yeah, maybe I'll. I mean, I just, I got it relatively recently, but maybe I will get upgraded the 12th gen and get the new lid at the same time and you can do the whole thing and it's not hard. You could do it yourself. I put it, I got the DIY version of the framework. It's a wonderful, the only negative on the laptop. It's a great laptop is battery life is not superb. I'm so spoiled by the,

Rene Ritchie (01:15:47):
For Apple. And like, this is like a choice that they make a deliberate choice that they make is they don't use commodity parts. Like a lot of times, even in phones and computers like Dell famously, you could pick the sister board, the daughter board, you want it stuff together. They, they get almost every part that they make is a custom part. Like even if it looks like it's off the rack, they often go in and say, no, the energy efficiency's not high enough. This is not high enough. This is not to our spec. And they get them to change it and they make a unique part for themselves. And then they don't and they put a lot of time and effort and resources behind that. And then they just don't, they don't want that part to be commonly available to anybody else. They're like, well, we don't wanna make a better like Apple, like the DDR ran that Apple puts in their laptops or in iPhones, it's not off the shelf.

Rene Ritchie (01:16:24):
It's a special variant made for Apple. That's even more power efficient than the standard low power versions. And they don't wanna share that with other companies cuz then they feel like those companies get it for free. So they have incredibly restrictive contracts for the, they say, we're gonna show you how to make this. And then you can only sell it to us, which complicates repairability. It complicates supply. Like they just don't have a lot of those because they're not the off the shelf version that they make in. So in many ways they're creating a better product. That's also creating enormous problems for everything, but that product,

Leo Laporte (01:16:50):
I love it. I've framework does an eye fix it, style guide on how to replace it. They have, you know, the steps required. They have videos. This is, this is how a company you know, essentially this is what laptops should be. Yeah. If they had I, if Apple did this, I, why wouldn't they do this? This is not by the way, a clunky or rat or loose laptop. This is a very, very nice laptop in every respect. And,

Andy Ihnatko (01:17:19):
And to, to be fair, there's a difference between Apple scale and a startup,

Leo Laporte (01:17:22):
I guess. So yeah. Framework, scale. That's

Andy Ihnatko (01:17:23):
True. That's true. And, and, and let's, and let's also keep our fingers crossed. That framework is still around in five years.

Leo Laporte (01:17:28):
Well, that was the gamble. Right. And that's why I'm so encouraged by the fact that they're selling now 12th gen and some motherboard replacements, because that shows that they, yeah, this was the plan, right? I could, I could upgrade the motherboard as new parts processors came out. We haven't been able to do that in years. That's really,

Rene Ritchie (01:17:45):
The other thing is some of the trade offs are real. Like when you when you sold the Ram, like one of the biggest complaints in every laptop is that the Ram gets unset and people don't know that's the problem, but the laptop stops working. And if you open it up and you go in and you reset the Ram, you know, it starts working again. But just by sold the Ram in, they reduce their, their support calls by, I think was greater than 50%. And that's a terrible solution for people who like to go in and reset their Ram. But there's not a lot of people like in the greater mainstream market who actually want to go in and reset their Ram. So there's these constant trade offs that keep getting made.

Leo Laporte (01:18:15):
Yeah. Yep. That's good point.

Andy Ihnatko (01:18:17):
It it's, it just, it just absolutely stinks when it, when you're, you're just out of Apple AppleCare laptop died and, and damnit, well, it's too, it's too pretty to throw away. I'm just gonna put on new shelf and then like you see a video that's

Rene Ritchie (01:18:32):
Every time.

Andy Ihnatko (01:18:32):
Yeah, exactly. And then, and then you

Rene Ritchie (01:18:34):
Find out that warranty.

Andy Ihnatko (01:18:35):
Yeah. No, it's, it's it's, I mean, it is a real problem. And then you find out that no, it's not that it, it's not it's it's, it's not like the, the, the, it's not like, it absolutely just fell apart. Like the blues mobile at the end of the movie, it was no, see this one little power chip that's connected to the charger that overheated and that has a tendency to overheat. It's a, basically a dollar 87 part. If you could actually source it from somewhere, there's probably somewhere someone within a 30 mile radius of you that could get your back back up and running for $75 for parts and one minimum, one hour of labor, but you can't get that one chip. And otherwise it's perfectly. Yeah. I mean, when, when Apple, when Apple, Apple has done such wonderful stuff about about green computing and the environment, it stinks when you have an, a beautiful display, beautiful keyboard, beautiful CPU, beautiful, everything on the logic board, except for that one chip. And that's why all of this, including lithium bats are become, are turning into e-waste.

Leo Laporte (01:19:30):
Let me take a little break more to come. Andy Anaco Renee Richie, Alex Lindsay, you're watching MacBreak Weekly, listening to MacBreak Weekly. Our show today brought to you by collide. We're a we're we use slack for our internal messaging. And I know a lot of companies do. And if you are using slack and you wanna be secure, you gotta find out about collide. It's a new take on endpoint management. Then I really like, you know, traditional endpoint management with MDM and, you know, locking down everything kind of the implication is your users are idiots. Can't be trusted, and we're gonna make sure we put super glue in all the USB ports. So they can't get our, our, our company taken down by ransomware. And I understand that point of view, I really do, but there is a better way get the users involved in security so that they buy in, they understand, and then they become, instead of your enemies, your allies in all of this, this is collides idea in contrast to old school device management tools like MDM, which lock down your employees devices without considering their needs, or even attempting to educate them about the security of the laptop.

Leo Laporte (01:20:45):
Collide is built by security practitioners like you, who saw just the, just exactly the problem with doing this, which is end users get frustrated. They throw up their hands. They end up switching to their own devices. Don't tell anybody, and that's bad for everybody all around. So there is this wonderful middle ground with collide. Instead of locking down a device, collide takes a user focused approach. It communicates security recommendations directly to your employees on slack. In fact, they're, they're there from the very beginning, the very first message from glide is here. Let's install the endpoint agent on your system and why you wanna do it. And here you are, you're gonna do it yourself. It turns security from some kind of, sort of black and white police state into a dynamic conversation. And after, after the endpoint agent has installed collide, regularly sends employees recommendations when their devices in an insecure state, you could see if you go to the website, you could see how great these are, you know, Hey, your screen lock, isn't set up correctly.

Leo Laporte (01:21:51):
You may, you don't want somebody to send an email from your machine while you're at lunch. So let's, let's get that password in there, or things like asking people to secure two-factor backup codes that are sitting in the clear in the download folder, because you're talking directly to employees with respect, you're educating about the company's policies, how to keep their devices secure. You're using real world examples, not theoretical scenarios. You're making them allies. You're making them allies in the quest to keep your company safe. K O L I D E collide, cross platform, endpoint management, wherever slack lives, Linux, Mac, or windows puts end users. First get endpoint management that puts the user first, K O L I D E collide.com/mac break to learn more, to try it free for 14 days, you don't even need a credit card, collide.com/mac break. And by the way, there's your goody bag stickers. And t-shirt all sorts of cool swag after signing up for new trial as their way of saying thank you. I've got a collide sticker on my laptop, collide. K O L I D e.com/mac break. Thank you, collide for respecting end users and for still helping the security folks keep things safe.

Leo Laporte (01:23:16):
I would, I don't, you know, in a way I hope they don't ship a new M two MacBook here, cuz then I would feel like I need it buy it. And I don't think I do need to buy it <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:23:24):
You don't have to buy every well, it depends like reviewer. Leo might wanna buy things to review them, but consumer Leo doesn't need to buy every,

Leo Laporte (01:23:30):
No, I have the I'm very happy with a 14 inch MacBook pro and one pro in it. I think, I can't remember what I put in it, but it's very it's it's it's and it's just as fast, frankly, as anything else. How now, Renee? I know they're not going to, but if they were <laugh> to announce an M two, even if they announced that they probably wouldn't ship it until September, but even if they, but if they did, how much faster would an M two be?

Rene Ritchie (01:23:58):
So this, this is where it's getting complicated because previously it looked like they were gonna follow a very simple, like the, the same scheme they've been following for a long time. And that was M two was gonna be based on the a 50 and the way M one was based on a 14. And it was gonna just linearly move through that. But now like according to GU Chi and I think maybe mark Garman, but a couple other leakers, it, it sounds like they're having a really hard time getting what they need out of Taiwan semiconductor. And so it's possible that this will be an M one plus, which means that it it'll still be like, it'll be like an, a 15 hybrid where it has it's like M one, but it has the, a 15 cores. So instead of having firestorm and ice storm, it'll have blizzard and avalanche.

Rene Ritchie (01:24:36):
And so you'll get like, you know, between a five and 20% uptick in single core operations and in a massive uptick in GPU, or much more massive, like 30% uptake in GPU operate, uplifting GPU operations. But it's totally unclear what they're actually gonna deliver. And will it be called M one plus, will it actually be M two will M two now wait, and be based on an a 16 or an a 17. I, I, I think it's really, really hard to tell right now, just because we have very little visibility into, into what's happening on the supply chain. I feel

Leo Laporte (01:25:03):
Like Apple's gonna have a hard time because with M one, they had such a leap in performance and battery life, you know, in TPU that they're not gonna be able to do that every generation. And so there's gonna be

Rene Ritchie (01:25:17):
Iterative from now

Leo Laporte (01:25:18):
On. Yeah. And so I, I think there's some expectation management that's gonna have to happen. And I suspect that might be something that happens on Monday. 

Rene Ritchie (01:25:28):
Even now, when you look at like the M one range like there's two, there's basically time and space is how you increase the power of a chip. So time is like, you just like, you can increase the core so that that's more work done at the same time. So basically if you're, if you have a cargo ship, that's going from London to New York, you can just put more and more cargo things on it. So the ship takes the same amount of time, but the amount of work you can get done gets exponentially bigger. Like one cargo on a cargo ship, 2, 4, 8, you know, 16, you're getting much more done, but it's still it's that amount of time to get it done. And then you can get a faster ship. But those ships only get incrementally faster. And then you start putting more. So my guess is my estimate for this is it'll be a little bit faster per core, and then it'll have all the same, like, you know, pro max ultra versions with many massive cores, but it's only ever gonna it process shrinks to like the years that we get process shrinks.

Rene Ritchie (01:26:17):
Those are gonna be great. Like when it goes down to three nano meter, when it goes down to two nano meter, after that there'll be more significant gains. But I also think the time of big cores are over, like Intel hit that wall really, really hard. There was only so many cores that could stuff into anything. And now basically Intel and Invidia are literally fighting over the last few Watts that are left in a normal house plug. Like they both want to be over 600 Watts and you literally you'd have to put like two different circuits on them at that point which is ridiculous. So like just adding cores, isn't a solution. So I think what Apple's doing, which is off core features, things like ProRes engines neural processing engines, all of those things are gonna become increasingly important, not just bigger and more cores, but dedicated Silicon to do things that are very appealing to people like creative pros and other

Leo Laporte (01:27:02):
That's gonna be the thing to watch is what Apple does given that they can't really do these big jumps in processor colors. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:27:10):
Well also, yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:27:12):
<Laugh> loom large. That's when, you know, you're kind of hit the edge of what you can do, so they're gonna, but we can do it in color now is,

Rene Ritchie (01:27:19):
Well, that's an advantage. Like I think a lot of people thought that M one was just gonna help with battery life. Like it's so much more efficient. We can just get more battery life, which is true, but because it's so much more efficient, there's a lot, lot less heat in it. And that means like you could literally not put an elder lake in the M one Mac iMac. It would, it would melt. It would, it would burn down and melt. It just, it needs a bigger thermal envelope and the same's gonna be true with the new Mac pro. So it lets you make designs that you could never make before, or it lets you run them in ways like without a fan or a very low fan or put them inside a, a, like a, a Mac studio that just literally would not fit those big, hot, hungry chords.

Leo Laporte (01:27:53):
Is that on your bingo card, Alex? Do you wanna know more about the Mac pro on Monday? I figure

Alex Lindsay (01:27:58):
You probably do. No. No. I mean, well, sure. I mean, I just don't think it'll ship anytime soon. No. So I think, well, plenty of time doesn't matter. It'd be great. Yeah, it'd be great. I mean, I, I don't think we, if we saw it before November, like we could actually buy one. I think I'd be pretty surprised. But if, if they are, when I show us a Mac I'm always open, I think it would hurt for the Mac pro to come out so early because I, I have the max studio, which I purposefully only got the max, not the ultra because I was like, well, I have until the fall to save up for macro <laugh>. So,

Leo Laporte (01:28:25):
So I, no, I'm very happy with the max. I don't think there's much.

Alex Lindsay (01:28:27):
My ultra is great. The only the biggest, again, I've said this before, my biggest regret with the, with the not my ultra and the max, my, my studio is great. My only request is I didn't, my only regret is I didn't max it out to eight terabytes because the drive is unbelievably fast. It's so

Leo Laporte (01:28:43):
Fast.

Alex Lindsay (01:28:44):
Yeah. Five digs a second, like

Leo Laporte (01:28:47):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:28:48):
Incredible older Ram. Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:28:49):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I renew my, my fantasy of, I wonder what Apple could do with a Mac and an Apple TV form factor with this new Silicon. I real, I realized that the, the Apple TV is essentially is essentially running like the M zero or the M minus one, or probably the M minus two chip equivalent. But as Renee said, when you don't have to worry about power, you don't have to worry about cooling. You don't have to worry about rampant, runaway, power consumption. There's something, there's something so sexy to me about having a Mac nano, you know, have having something that tiny that could even just be easily like visa mounted to the back of any display you want. So that something to com something to compete with $500, like, or even $400, super budget PCs, but much, much better, because this will be a Mac and this won't have the sort of crap bloatware and insecurity that that a super super cheap PC will have, or basically just making Mac available to a wider range of people.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:53):
And most of my complaints about the price ranges of Apple computers has been dissipated by how good the, the iPad is, how flexible it is and how cheap they are down to $330 for an excellent example. But there's still that little fantasy of, I just want a kid to get a, get a stocking stuffer $299 Mac. Even if they, even if they said there's there, there, there are ways that we made, we wanted to make this extra, extra simple and extra, extra approachable. So this one can't side load apps at all, it has to get all of its apps through the app store, but all of our best and safest apps are, are through the app store. It is true

Leo Laporte (01:30:29):
That the Apple TV prices have dropped again up again. I wonder if we'd see an M one based Apple 4k ultra Apple TV, that'd be kind.

Rene Ritchie (01:30:41):
So they didn't need, like, though they're very specific in, in right. Sizing their, their chip sets, for example, the

Leo Laporte (01:30:46):
Latest 12 right now, right?

Rene Ritchie (01:30:47):
Yeah. Because all they needed was 60 frames per second. Like they didn't need anything beyond that. So they went, and that was the minimum chip that could support it. They didn't even put the X chip in it, which I was hoping for. Cause I thought maybe they would, they would wanna be more aggressive about either the gaming that they could support, but they're like, Nope, 60, 60 frames per second. We're good.

Andy Ihnatko (01:31:01):
Thanks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The Apple TV always had like, you, you wonder why does it, why does it still have the same, like really, really slow wire internet? Why does it have so little system Ram? How much, how, why does it have so little storage and they could, it annoys me because I'm I live in a world in which I think that, well, I really want this a machine, even if it's a, a streaming box to have a lot of headroom so that I can do things I haven't imagined today, but Apple credibly can say, what would, what from the app store and apps that run on Apple TV would require more Ram than what we're giving you and why, what will you be streaming that would require, you know, like 10 gigabit, ethernet, or even gigabit ethernet

Alex Lindsay (01:31:41):
It's yeah. I mean, the, the reality is the online, your online connection to for most people's internet connection is not as fast as the connection that is in the Apple TV. And I think that the Apple TV is already painfully overpowered compared to every other thing. That's a, that's a device that provides, you know, other than a computer, everything else that ties into your, your, any OTT box is about a quarter, the, the power that the Apple TV is. And so except feel like an Xbox or a plays. I mean, that's except for an Xbox and PlayStation maybe. Yeah. But, but as far as the, I mean, the other ones are, you know, the little sticks and everything else. They're, I mean, the, the processing power inside of a, the total capability of a map TV is dramatically higher. You know, and so it's, so I think that they, they have to charge more. And the question is, is like, who would buy it? You know, like, like, you know, and now people like me, if you've made it, I'd rather pay $300 and have it be all souped up and, and have it. But, but most people are, you know, gonna wanna spend as little as possible.

Andy Ihnatko (01:32:36):
I'm I'm sorry for interrupting you. I just got excited. Just got excited. Cause one of my favorite things is still my complaints about the Apple TV, mostly stem from how good my Invidia shield box is, which costs roughly the same amount of money as a good app as the best Apple TV. But it really is like a fully capable like TV countertop computer. It can actually, it doesn't just run Plex. It can actually run as a Plex server. Like I can actually attach an external hard drive to it, have it record TV shows off of a, off of a streaming box acts as a DVR stream that to anywhere I am in the world it has, it can run a regular web browser. It can, the, the newer ones can even like automat scale intelligently scale up 10 80 to 4k and do it in a very, very convi, not like, oh good.

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:26):
Okay. Technically it works. But I feel like I want to hurt my eyeballs because for, for forcing me to actually watch this, I don't wanna watch this again. It's like a magical thing. And so I, I just wish that you have an everyone who says that, that a streaming box is for most people. I say nearly all people. Is that just a very utilitarian thing? There's a reason why the Apple TV is just a black, rounded, rounded square with absolutely no features, service features or attractive things to whatsoever. You plug it in, you forget it exists. And it just does the job. It, it just acts as an invisible interface to, to all your streaming services, but it's, I really wish that it could do see what Apple could do with $150 streaming box if they were, if they decided that the Invidia shield for instance, were their competition.

Leo Laporte (01:34:14):
The good news is Foxcon says, Hey, there's no shortage. There's no chip shortage. Although I have a feeling there's a long edge it's taking long's long. The overall this is we're,

Andy Ihnatko (01:34:26):
We're SA we're savoring the manufacturing process. We're enjoying it so much today.

Leo Laporte (01:34:30):
Foxcon raised its outlook for the current quarter and full year is citing improved supply chain stability in China who knew young Lou, the chairman said the overall lockdown impact. She's talking about the lockdown in Shanghai on Foxcon is rather limited. You can tell from our revenues in April and May's performance is also better than we estimated. So there, so what are we waiting? I think those other companies that were affected more and they got

Rene Ritchie (01:34:58):
Some of those contracts moved to them. So they're

Leo Laporte (01:35:00):
Probably super happy. Yeah. I ordered I made a big mistake by the way. Just little word of warning I'm from now on only ordering max from the Apple store. <Laugh> I ordered it.

Alex Lindsay (01:35:11):
You just got around to that.

Leo Laporte (01:35:14):
Every

Alex Lindsay (01:35:15):
To buy one is

Leo Laporte (01:35:16):
Somebody was offering a company called simply Mac they're. I mean, they're not, I I've heard of them. They're they're a official Apple reseller, but they were offering I think 300 bucks off of Mac studio. So I went and order it. That was back in April <laugh> oh yeah. They took my $4,000 immediately. Oh, wow. Yeah. So now here I am 10 weeks later and I no word at all from them, nothing. So now just they are an Apple premium partner, but I guess I could do a chargeback.

Alex Lindsay (01:35:50):
I don't know. That was about, I think it was probably a little over a decade ago. Maybe.

Leo Laporte (01:35:53):
I know I'm

Alex Lindsay (01:35:54):
Stupid. 15 years ago. I was just like, I am not. I'm just gonna go to the Apple store and buy Apple products. It's it's just, I know we can talk about, we can do it in a lot of other places. Maybe save a hundred dollars here. There was, it was a

Leo Laporte (01:36:03):
False economy,

Alex Lindsay (01:36:04):
The pain, the inner getting your Apple, just wait until you want to do your Apple care thing or whatever. Like all of those things are just so difficult. Once you get outside the ecosystem that I just

Leo Laporte (01:36:16):
I'll cancel it. I was for, it was for Henry cuz I wanted his tos to, to sing <laugh> but now, I mean, I feel terrible. I told him 10 weeks ago. Yeah, I I'm getting you a, the ultra, but

Alex Lindsay (01:36:30):
I'm I know I'm making my contribution to his his, his work there. Thank you. I got, I got a lot of salt. Did

Leo Laporte (01:36:36):
You buy some salt? Oh good. Thank you. Oh yeah. Yeah. I

Alex Lindsay (01:36:38):
Got the, the, the truffle salt is

Leo Laporte (01:36:40):
Really it's really good.

Alex Lindsay (01:36:41):
Expensive, but we're I rep

Leo Laporte (01:36:42):
Penny. Well he's he has reformulated it. He's got,

Alex Lindsay (01:36:46):
Oh my gosh. We, we need, we need some new ones. Cause the, the problem that we had is is that we lost the salt. It got misplaced.

Leo Laporte (01:36:51):
Oh no.

Alex Lindsay (01:36:52):
And there was some drama in the house about who? Where

Leo Laporte (01:36:55):
The hell has the salt a gone

Alex Lindsay (01:36:57):
It's the truffle salty about the salt, the truffle salt, my

Leo Laporte (01:36:59):
Truffle salt.

Alex Lindsay (01:37:01):
There

Leo Laporte (01:37:01):
Was, there was, well, he's never gonna stop the truffle garlic, cuz that is the best seller. But yes. Look how expensive it is compared to the others. But here's the

Alex Lindsay (01:37:08):
Deal. You're just putting

Leo Laporte (01:37:08):
A little that's true. It's like just a, it's a little, it's a little bit of love across things. It's got a new Chi cherry flavor. That's quite good. Ooh.

Alex Lindsay (01:37:16):
I use, I use Chi cherry for breakfast. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:37:18):
Every day. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:37:19):
I used, I use some of that on my burger on, on

Leo Laporte (01:37:22):
Memorial way. Good.

Andy Ihnatko (01:37:23):
That was just that, that little, that you're right. It's just that little stuff that you can't, you can't figure out what you did to make this thing. So salmon. Right. And it was just like, oh I just, I just used the right amount of a really good salt.

Alex Lindsay (01:37:36):
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. It's that

Rene Ritchie (01:37:37):
Robert Downey Jr. Sprinkling of J of, of flavored

Leo Laporte (01:37:41):
Answers. <Laugh> anyway, I'm sorry Hank. <Laugh> I don't know why I'm buying him max. He should be buying me max now, but yeah, your investment, you know, because they that's an investment.

Rene Ritchie (01:37:54):
That's the thing that happens when they make their, their billions.

Leo Laporte (01:37:57):
He used to tell me when he was a kid, he says be nice to me. I'm don't forget. I'm choosing your nursing home. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:38:03):
I'll put you in the crooked one, like 60 minutes.

Leo Laporte (01:38:05):
Holy, exactly. Be nice. Nice. Simply Mac. If, if you're listening you're holding up, solve Hanks, max studio, Mac studio, ultra. I want it, I guess, I guess I'm just gonna go get a charge back. That's such a so sad.

Rene Ritchie (01:38:21):
Yeah. A lot of waste of time.

Leo Laporte (01:38:22):
Yeah. I think it's, I think the FTC says you only have 30 days to, you know, you can't take the money and then disappear for 10 weeks. Yeah. Oh anyway. That's the public service.

Rene Ritchie (01:38:35):
Donald Ruple getting super angry on Twitter today.

Leo Laporte (01:38:37):
No, what's he pissed off about now he's on his wedding date. They're oh,

Rene Ritchie (01:38:41):
Well, no, he wasn't angry about that. He was super happy about it.

Leo Laporte (01:38:44):
Like, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:38:45):
He's super happy

Rene Ritchie (01:38:45):
About the wedding. Super upset because Apple started like much, like they insert ads into the news plus service when he pay for it. They're inserting ads into the music, Apple music app for other Apple music things. And it it's sort of, I've never seen my DMS drenched cause he is like, I don't write anymore, but Gruber, Nell,

Leo Laporte (01:39:03):
Richy, please. Somebody write this up. I'm

Rene Ritchie (01:39:05):
Gonna take over your websites. And everyone's like, why you shouldn't have retired. But it led to this cavalcade of, of people being super unhappy, that Apple is inserting upsells into every part of iOS

Leo Laporte (01:39:15):
On the, on, on your wedding day. It's like, it's like an upsell on your wedding day. Gruber says shouldn't have retired.

Alex Lindsay (01:39:27):
I my, my biggest complaint is in, in Apple news, when I say I wanna mute somebody, I would love to have it not be a big black space that says you muted this space, but you could watch it if you wanted to. I'm like, I muted it. I don't want to ever know that it existed. And and somehow I,

Leo Laporte (01:39:43):
This isn't actually I'm with Jim, he's listening to, to Apple's classic rock station and an ad for thrombo appears in the middle of it. No, no, I don't want that. I don't blame Jim for being upset. Snell response. They're hurting interviews

Rene Ritchie (01:40:01):
Anymore.

Leo Laporte (01:40:02):
They're interview listening in certain. Yeah. Right. He's not a Canadian anymore. Right. He's <laugh>, he's our own. We bought him and we traded him for Wayne Gretsky or something. They're and they're inserting interviews in their playlists too. Well, no, I don't want hear an interview. I want music. Yeah. Well, that's gonna was

Rene Ritchie (01:40:20):
Delightful story. There was this delightful story about like, and I don't know if this is true. It's apocryphal. That EDQ was always much more aggressive about business opportunities and upselling than Phil S Schuler was. And so he'd wait for Phil to go on vacation and then send out a push notification for a new Apple service. And that sounds very much like you know, like the odd couple sort of behavior, but I think increasingly when Apple sets things like we're gonna double services revenue over the next few years, or we're gonna take subscriptions to 600 million. I think this is the stuff that this is the consequence of that. And it adds a certain corrosiveness to the user experience.

Andy Ihnatko (01:40:55):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's, it's especially stands out when it's an Apple thing. Like, I, I, I think that Apple news for me is a bargain because it lets me read articles that would cost me like a hundred dollars a month via paywall otherwise like wall street journal and other things. But man live it is I the, the, the difficulty in saying, wow, that's a really interesting story. I'd like to talk about it next week on NPR. I'll I'll take the URL and put it in the, in the bookmark file where I put stories that I'm, I'm keeping an eye on. It is not possible. You can't get a URL to, even if it's not a table

Rene Ritchie (01:41:32):
Article on can, but not iOS, which is right.

Andy Ihnatko (01:41:34):
Exactly. Like you can't, there's no way to pop up. Even if you just wanna recommend this to somebody else. It's like, no, no, no. We want to steer you towards back to Apple saying yep. But I don't want to be steered to Apple too bad. It's like, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:41:46):
The Mac

Rene Ritchie (01:41:46):
Version has safari, but the iOS version does not. And it it's just, ah, so frustrating.

Andy Ihnatko (01:41:51):
It's so it's so obnoxious. I, I would even tolerate, oh, it's it's they, they, they don't, they want to try to they're they're using dark UI to make sure that you do the thing that they want you to do. But once you read this wonderful article and I more you'll figure out, you'll find out how to do it. And then you'll just, or you'll script it and it'll just work fine. Like no damnit Apple, you, you do so many things very well. It's like it it's it's it really is like when the best gymnasts in the world, like stubs their toe, when they're walking out to the mat, it's like, it's nothing. It's absolutely like it's total human behavior, but it just sticks out so much more. When you see somebody that's like walking along and jumping and twisting on a three inch beam, like a gazelle. It's like, oh, that really does stick

Leo Laporte (01:42:33):
Out here on a brighter note is a picture of Jim Dalrimple on his wedding day. <Laugh> oh, beer in hand looking out at the ocean. Clearly. Ho I think it's Hawaii,

Rene Ritchie (01:42:46):
Honest man. Out of him. It's it's

Leo Laporte (01:42:48):
There you go. I'm sorry for them.

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:49):
He looks, he look that that looks like the photo. You send your bank like six months after you retire. And they find out how much you embezzled from them. And that'll never get their

Rene Ritchie (01:42:59):
Money back photo that, that jerk sends the Canadians. When they're middle of a blizzard, he's just like,

Leo Laporte (01:43:03):
Ah, I don't miss doing Jim. Congratulations. That is just, that is just

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:08):
Wonderful. So I'm, I'm so happy that he's happy. Yeah. You know, to, to me, when a guy like Jim, Jim doable is happy. That is an indication that maybe the world works the way it's supposed to.

Leo Laporte (01:43:19):
Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:43:19):
Survive another generation.

Leo Laporte (01:43:20):
He's happyish cuz let's not forget. They're still putting ads in his Apple music.

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:24):
<Laugh> yeah. True. <laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:43:26):
Gonna come outta retire. You

Leo Laporte (01:43:26):
Made me pulled me back in <laugh>. Apple has a patent. I, I am, I'm not gonna give this a whole lot of credence, but they have a patent for putting a camera in the crown of the Apple watch <laugh> patent for everything. So I had watches with cameras in them. It is not a good experience. You would look

Alex Lindsay (01:43:50):
Like a re if you, if you turn it upside down, you could look like you could look like a had to ad with that. Remember Spiderman super creepy

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:57):
Was a ski

Rene Ritchie (01:43:57):
Slope ad. He had a camera and the guy was talking the woman in the ski slope with a Samsung camera

Alex Lindsay (01:44:01):
Lodge.

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:02):
I just have to ask, is there like a Mac mode so that you can get like the full detail of my wrist hair? Yes. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:44:07):
Exactly.

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:07):
That's all you're gonna get. Exactly

Alex Lindsay (01:44:10):
Know the key, the key is to go is to, is to do it like Spider-Man so you just roll it under oh

Leo Laporte (01:44:15):
Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:44:16):
Like

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:16):
That's

Alex Lindsay (01:44:17):
Ex you gotta make that noise.

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:20):
Every, every picture of everybody's gonna be like, cause they're trying to figure out why the hell are you doing that? What's

Alex Lindsay (01:44:25):
That? Yeah, exactly. Are you okay?

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:28):
Do, do you need money for Cav chair? Is that it?

Alex Lindsay (01:44:30):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:44:32):
Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:32):
Oh, I think, I think, although it would be, it is a patent, so it could be, so it could be anything, but I, I have, I find it harder believe that that would be useful in any way for picture taking, unless as the patent says, part of it was being able to pop the, the pat pop the watch off to actually treat it like more of a normal camera. But the first thing that I've thought about is using, using a camera as a, as a sensor, like for more data, as opposed to something that would actually be used to take pictures

Alex Lindsay (01:44:57):
With. I, you know, a lot of times when we look at these patents, we have to remember that like, I, you know, some companies that I've worked for or consulted for, they basically you get these instructions that say, Hey, if you're out in the field and you don't see anyone around you, like there's no one else doing what you're doing. You should talk to the lawyers. <Laugh> like, like, like start, just, just have meetings with them all the time and just explain what you're doing. Like, and, and they'll figure out whether there's something exactly they

Andy Ihnatko (01:45:19):
File.

Alex Lindsay (01:45:20):
Well, and you gets for, you know, like, so, so they, so the and so, so the thing is, is that, but you just start it's it's like, if you're in a competitive market in competitive area, don't worry about it. But if you suddenly realize, Hey, there's no one around, like I'm all by myself. Yeah. Should talk to lawyers, like, like just start writing stuff down. So it's, that's, that's the

Rene Ritchie (01:45:38):
Organic web shooters, Alex and I had to make web shooters in a chemistry

Alex Lindsay (01:45:42):
Lab and mine are digital, which are good, but they're not as good as the analog ones, you know? Like they're, they fall apart. There's a little bit of quantization. They come out.

Andy Ihnatko (01:45:50):
I'll I'll, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, what I do have, what I have is a genetic proclivity. I'm basically Darwinian engineered for winter warfare in like Eastern Europe rest. So that's yeah. Not, not so not so good for like running fast, you know, through the Arizona deserts. But if you want someone defense like's business, hunker down, dig a, dig, a hole in snow, hunker down and dam it. You're not you're you're not gonna get, you're not gonna get past me. And, and across the vulgar vulgar river, this is the sort of genetic stock you want.

Alex Lindsay (01:46:23):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:46:24):
Somebody, I don't know if I would trust him named Sheba, do obviously a fan of crap coins asked Elon Musk. When are you gonna put Apple CarPlay in your Tesla? It's one of the main reasons I didn't buy another Teslas cuz Tesla's media system is not very good in my opinion. Yeah. I wanted CarPlay, which I

Alex Lindsay (01:46:46):
Love

Leo Laporte (01:46:47):
In my mock Elon responded. We'll discuss this in other improvements with Tesla, audio engineering, but then he said the model S and X sound. System's incredible. So I think that's Elon just saying

Rene Ritchie (01:47:00):
Elon's basically external PR for te like he got rid of the Tesla PR department. Now he's doing it all himself on Twitter, which is something that you would never recommend an executive. Do

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:07):
I, Ugh. I, I, I believe him as much as I believe in Apple patent, it's like, okay, here

Leo Laporte (01:47:12):
He,

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:12):
He Def he definitely that's a thought was able to, he definitely typed that, that that's the new story is that Elon must typed the following sequence of characters and symbols and then hit the sun button. Yeah. But at this point, come on,

Leo Laporte (01:47:23):
His tweets are getting weirder and weirder and weirder. I gotta say, I just just, I didn't even wanna think about him to be honest

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:30):
With you, the richest man in the world. And we think that he's kind of unhinged

Leo Laporte (01:47:33):
Unhinged.

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:34):
Oh, oh. And, and, and he's, he's starting, he's basically starting his own band of pirates to Sue anybody and everybody that he feels has affronted him and

Leo Laporte (01:47:43):
Oh, that's oh's good. Free speech, baby.

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:44):
I feel great.

Leo Laporte (01:47:46):
<Laugh> Hey, Apple music does have something going for it. BTS has set a new Apple music, one record for the biggest show. Ah, if you, what is the, the

Andy Ihnatko (01:47:57):
Five cute boys?

Leo Laporte (01:47:58):
If you're not a teenage girl, you may not know Kpop who PTs. Is there a very popular K-pop band boy band. They dance together very well. In fact, isn't there gonna be an Apple Fitz BTS channel? I feel like, I think I heard that maybe. So on April, I'm sorry. On May 29th, the Apple music account announced the BTS army broke the record for the biggest show of the year with their debut episode of BTS radio.

Rene Ritchie (01:48:27):
I mean they know TWI army, but they're not bad

Leo Laporte (01:48:30):
<Laugh> Hey, what don't

Andy Ihnatko (01:48:33):
Mess with the BTS army versus versus the kiss army. That is something that's a paper view

Rene Ritchie (01:48:37):
That I oh, Kpop stands. Army

Leo Laporte (01:48:38):
Powerful, powerful, powerful. Remember? Yeah. Yeah. They, they got, they screwed with Trump. And so if you steal <laugh>, if you steal a bag, a smartphone from a F one driver prepared to be chased at high speeds, <laugh> Sebastian vet. One of the champion F1 drivers used app. He, they used, Apple's fine. My, to attempt to track down thieves with stolen his bag by riding a scooter through the city he's earbuds were in the bag. The driver for Aston Martin did in fact find the earphones, but not the bag. I guess the thieves realized that the EarPods were <laugh> telegraphing, their local people, like

Rene Ritchie (01:49:29):
Never, never, ever, ever do that. Like secondary crime scenes are, are seldom a win for, for anybody. Like if someone's got your stuff, let 'em like go tell the police because if you track them down, bad things could happen to you.

Leo Laporte (01:49:42):
Yeah. And everybody's had a bag stolen in Barcelona. It's just kind of part of the, part of the fun

Andy Ihnatko (01:49:48):
Of tops and Topo Sam and theft, petty theft.

Leo Laporte (01:49:52):
<Laugh> that? Hasn't

Andy Ihnatko (01:49:54):
I can't say you've been, you've done Barcelona until you have oh yeah. The Iberia IBER $80 in cash stole. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:00):
Yeah. And, and to top it off, he finished one position outta the point since these Spanish brand Prix two weeks ago. So, ah, sorry.

Andy Ihnatko (01:50:07):
Yeon yaul is that how you say

Leo Laporte (01:50:08):
It? Ya beco Hamon, Hamon, beco, I don't know how they say it. That's how I say it. <Laugh> Apple Newton 30 years ago, 30th anniversary. Here's the piece from ours technically yesterday, remembering Apples Newton, 30 years on, I guess this means I should run over to my cupboard and get it May 29th, 1992, Apple announced this is John Scully's baby. Right. This was not in fact Scully said, what did he say about PDAs like that? He created the term PDA and said, this is the future and public displays of, of affection. Right? That

Andy Ihnatko (01:50:48):
Was yep.

Leo Laporte (01:50:49):
<Laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (01:50:50):
Yep. Yeah, no, it was, it was, it was amazing at the, at the launch event for the Newton, they even had, like, they had a nonfunctional prototypes of other platforms that would be running Newton OS including like a, a desk tablet, including smaller phone form factors, including stuff that would be integrated into like a, a, a desktop phone. They really, really were all in on this. It was a, it was a nice, it was a nice system. It was just it was just, it was the, it was probably the Google glass of of Apple in that it was really good. It was, it was brilliant, nothing like it. And it was ahead of its time. And as soon as another company did to them, what Apple usually does to, to other companies as, as soon as Palm basically said that, Hey, what if we take everything that people are complaining about, the Newton, fix it, get rid of everything that we don't actually need so we can sell it so people can afford it and actually include a full developer kit for free instead of charging a thousand dollars for it.

Andy Ihnatko (01:51:48):
So we'll immediately get the biggest pile of apps for this thing possible. Yeah. That's when people said, yeah, maybe I, maybe I want something that for 300 or $500 that will stick in my pocket as opposed to something that's a thousand dollars that I will need to build the leather hip.

Leo Laporte (01:52:02):
Nevertheless, the Newton did show the way forward for handheld devices. Absolutely it before the Palm, that would do handwriting recognition. And let's not forget that in order to power, the Newton, Apple funded with 3 million, a small British computer company called acorn mm-hmm <affirmative>, which had a risk CPU, a brand new CPU design that had very low power requirements. And of course the acorn risk machine and the acorn chip became the foundation for arm acorn risk machine AR. And yeah. So if it weren't for the Newton, I don't know if we'd have, if we'd have the M one. I don't know.

Andy Ihnatko (01:52:41):
Yeah. It really was wonderful. They also, they, it also was the first Apple failure for licensing, because you could get front ones from Sony. You can get a Newton nos device from other manufacturers too. I mean, there was a lot of really interesting post Steve jobs, ideas wrapped up in this, but again, it's it's, this is, this is why this is the sort of thing that makes me wonder about augmented reality and virtual reality goggles from Apple. That again is not enough that you have this brilliant thing that a demos really well. That's definitely ahead of its time. Do people look at this, look at the store, look at the price tag and think this definitely solves a problem that I'm experiencing right now.

Leo Laporte (01:53:18):
It wasn't cheap. I, I, the original message pad went on sale August 2nd, 1993. It was announced on this day in 1992, but didn't there, there's talking about an early announcement. It took a year before it actually it actually, that can't be right. Is that right? It was May 29th, 1992. Apple announced the Newton message pad.

Andy Ihnatko (01:53:40):
I think, I think it was if I'm, I might be wrong, but I think that it was first available around Mac world expo Boston in August. Cuz I did buy it like the first day it was available. They actually had tents set up. You bought one

Leo Laporte (01:53:53):
Lemere

Andy Ihnatko (01:53:53):
Nice. Yeah. I used a former employee of leach mere sales, the, the long defunk, but wonderful electronics and home home, home appliance chain in new England. They had a special tent set up. I, again, still <laugh> I still could barely afford it, but it was like, but I gotta have it. I, I bet I can get someone to send me a copy of like the development kit and I started learning Newton's script and man, it was fun to do Newton's script. I

Leo Laporte (01:54:21):
Did.

Andy Ihnatko (01:54:22):
It was, it was a hell of a lot of fun. I, and I did like buy a police, go to go to the, go to the police supply store like a couple towns over test out the Newton with a whole bunch of different like leather holsters and gun belts and like got some leather tools and adapted like a hip, a hip belt so that I could actually have it strapped down to my outer thigh and like draw it because otherwise, like there's no way to actually have it handy when this there's a thing that's supposed to be super, super handy in your hand, I'm sure

Leo Laporte (01:54:51):
You gotta leach me a employee discount. But the, the rate

Andy Ihnatko (01:54:56):
Was, I was long. I was long gone and I, but I'd already like stolen as much as <laugh> I I'd already, I already, my first Mac was a five 12 K Mac that, that was originally sold for $2,000. It was a customer return, but was in, I worked the computer department and employees were allowed to make their own regular markdowns. I just, I, I, I removed some panels, so it looked worse than it actually was. I disconnected a power thing. So it wouldn't power on if someone tried it, inevitably the calendar turned it down to $77 and 77 cents. And I bought it for $77 and after five minutes in my house, I was able to, I of course, got it running again, cuz I'm the one who disabled it to

Leo Laporte (01:55:33):
Begin on sale August 2nd, 1993 for $900, which was about $1,800 today. Oh, thank you. Look at that. Anthony has brought me my very expensive now that I know how much these are worth stack of Newton message pads. Yeah. This is, this is the first one I think was the 100. No, this is the 2000. Yeah, this is the original one, the 100. And there was some, some really innovative things. It would go when you threw away something, crumpled it up. It had an iconic interface. This was before general, before general magic, right? Yeah. it, this is the beshe pad 2000, the later that's version of it that had the flip cover on it. It had and

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:15):
An optional keyboard. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:56:16):
Yeah. And it had cards. Here's one, let's pop it out and see what it does. This is a two megabyte, two megabyte, two megabyte flash storage card. I couldn't even get one of my photos from my camera on that. Did it cost as much as a Volvo? Yeah. <laugh> yeah, these, but, but yet I, I, I think we shouldn't mark it because in many ways this was no, again, this was a huge, it was super invention that changed everything and we, yeah. And, and Scully as nutty, as he was, was right about one thing, PDAs did become the way of the world, but it just happened to be on your smartphone, not on your 

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:53):
Yeah. And you needed, you needed an internet connection to really take it off. But

Leo Laporte (01:56:58):
On this, although I think I do have on one of these, my modem card, do you remember that Andy, that you would

Andy Ihnatko (01:57:04):
Put yep. Yep. That the mobile modem card, but the little pop little slide out connector that like unfolded for

Leo Laporte (01:57:10):
Yeah. I'll show you. I have it. <Laugh> there's your modem card and here's the connector. So this is so you can, can you gimme the over the shoulder again, John, this is so that you could take your RJ 11 and put it, can you see that? Put it in there that just pops out and you put your phone Jack in, <laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (01:57:30):
Send in receive emails or faxes

Leo Laporte (01:57:32):
<Laugh> fax modem card. Yeah. Oh good. Somebody was asking, this is an XJ. This is, this is my megahertz. This is not from Apple. Somebody was asking me. So yeah, this one, this one's loaded, this has two megabytes of memory and a modem card. Yeah. So I'm ready to go, boy. That is, and the nice thing is these use batteries. So I actually, I could just put some batteries in here and

Andy Ihnatko (01:57:56):
I, I, I gotta tell my Neil Gaman story though. It's a great one of my favorite interactions probably with the Newton, but also with other things. So Sandman, the comic was in its early days so much so that like when sand, when Neil Gaon and Dave Keith, that the art cover artist were, could have a assigning at, at at the comic store in Kenmore square in Boston without having 10,000 people like basically creating like a health problem. But so waited still had a wait in line outside, you know, to, to, to get in. And I decided that, no, I want him to sign my Newton message pad. And just, and so I created a new note had that like waiting for, waiting for when I, when I saw him in line, when I finally got to the front of the line. And so, but what I forgot to do is turn off

Leo Laporte (01:58:44):
The notes conversion.

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:46):
No, exactly. So, so you, so you could either, so you could either have like, if you could either do it as ink in which you're doing sketches or whatever, or you could turn on the text and we do text to a handwriting text. So, so we have a chat actually. And I, we, we were internet friends or copy serve comics and animation form friends. So we had like some conversations about that. So he signs his name and then he suddenly gets confused because like, before his eyes, like his signature was being transformed into words,

Leo Laporte (01:59:13):
Farm.

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:14):
So he signs it again and he signs it again, like, oh my God, is this wonderful. It's like consulting the Oracle and

Leo Laporte (01:59:19):
DOI <laugh>.

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:20):
And to this, to this day, I have, I have an original like poem, like a 5, 6, 7, 8 line poem written by Neil Gaon without his knowledge, even he doesn't know what this poem is. It's known only to my message pad and me. Oh, that's

Leo Laporte (01:59:37):
Like,

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:37):
Oh, that was just one.

Leo Laporte (01:59:39):
Did you ever, did you ever turn on ink and get the signature or no,

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:42):
I think, I think I did. Okay. Dave, Dave was more, I, I, Dave was not interested. Dave was more playing with it as a PDA than, as like, Ooh, I'm gonna do a brilliant piece of like sand man style art with the stylist I've never seen before. But yeah, it was, it was a great day, but part, I, I will say that part of the, part of the the Dodge of, of my job is that sometimes it's like, oh, well, I've, I, you know, I've, I, I just came here to get, get your autograph in my book, Mr. Author, that I really, really love. But yes, I, if you'd like to play with my Google glass, I happen to be wearing by, by all means. And so I get to talk to this person for 10 minutes, because they've never seen a Google glass before.

Andy Ihnatko (02:00:21):
They've never seen an iPad before, or I got, I got so many, I got so many sketches. I'm sorry, I'm I'm going off our tangent I'll I'll end this here. But like the first ComicCon that I went to with my first iPad was like, I got so many really good sketches from artists simply because like, they had never seen an iPad before. And they themselves were curious about how it would do for doing art. So I've got like, <laugh>, I've got this whole folder on my original iPad of like brilliant works of art that I tried to then. Well, geez. It is technically you did a sketch from me. Can I give you like 10 or 20 plus? No, no, no. So what do you think? What are the art programs for? How can I export it? So again, it was, it was, it's an ice breaker is what it is. It's an ice breaker

Leo Laporte (02:01:01):
Here from August 27th, 1993 is a dunes break cartoon. This is also in the arts TECA article. He's the what's his name? Mike DUNS bras writing. I am writing a test sentence to which the Newton converts Siam fighting atomic century. So he says, no, no, no. And he writes it again. I am writing a test sentence. Ian is writing a taste sensation. I am writing a test sentence. I am writing a test sentence catching on egg freckles <laugh> and then the Simpsons had a similar one in which I think home a is writing beat up Martin. And it interprets it eat up Martha <laugh>, but that's actually not too far off. It wasn't the best handwriting recognition. In fact, that's how the Palm made its name was they very wisely realized that instead of trying to get the computer to understand quirky human handwriting have a special alphabet and the graffiti alphabet actually made the Palm usable and now machine learning just does it all for us.

Leo Laporte (02:02:07):
And now it works. Yep. Yeah, it wrote it ran its own custom operating system. Newton OS written in C plus, plus it had its own language Newton's script, which lets you write apps. You don't have to install the apps from an app store. You just beam them onto the Newton. So it, it, I have to say, I even though this was not a job, this was a Steve S Jim, Jim Scully, Steve Scully. What's his name? Scully John Scully. This was a John Scully special. It was also, I think, a very important step forward in the computing that led to, as some of you may remember the 2100 and then the inmate remember this for school. Yeah. A couple of years later. And now

Andy Ihnatko (02:02:59):
These are pretty cheap. I'm surprised.

Leo Laporte (02:03:00):
Yeah. the Newton's legacy Newton says hello to the iPhone. The iPhone says, hello back. You can still, people are still working on the Newton to, to keep it working. Yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:10):
There's the, there are people they they've written internet stacks for it. You can actually write they have web servers for it written for it. It's there's, there's nothing. There is nothing that has nothing, no device ever made that has a system clock. And at least five bits of Ram that has not, does not have an army of people are still writing modern software

Leo Laporte (02:03:30):
For it. And as as Jeremy Reimer writing and our technic points out for that 3 million investment in the acorn risk machine CPU, Apple got something. Yep. Pretty good. A few 30 years later.

Andy Ihnatko (02:03:43):
That's that's when that's when risk was actually like innovative and new. Wow, wow. Reduced instructions, still computing. Like, but not that we Intel where it's just, yeah. Good. How can you do something powerful with just a small set of instructions? Well, that's the point? Yeah. It's a small set of instructions that runs super, super fast and efficiently.

Leo Laporte (02:04:00):
All right. We're gonna take a little time out and then your picks of the week gentlemen. So prepare them if you will, as I tell the world about our sponsor wealth front, and now is a very important time, I think to know about wealth front, the ups and downs of the stock market or of Bitcoin or of NFTs might be making you a little queasy right now, stock training. Yeah. It's a wild ride. But the thrill of risking it all is probably best enjoyed in moderation like casino, gambling and eating questionable street food. If you're playing the market, I hope for your sake, you're also stashing some safer money in a place like wealth front. You know, you hear about the people who made a lot of money on crypto or day trading, but there's wealth front has a ton of data to show that time in the market.

Leo Laporte (02:04:52):
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Leo Laporte (02:05:50):
The whole idea. This is you're in it for the long run. Wealthfront is trusted with more than 27 billion in assets invest a named wealth front, the best robo advisor of 2022, which is pretty good since we're only about halfway through the year yet to start building your wealth and get your first $5,000 managed for free for life at wealthfront.com/mac break Wealthfront, w E a L T H F R O nt.com/mac break. Start building your wealth today with Wealthfront wealthfront.com/mac break. We thank him so much for supporting MacBreak Weekly. Thank you for supporting us back by going to that address. So they know you saw it here. Wealthfront.Com/Mac. Let's start off with the high price spread Alex Lindsay to begin.

Alex Lindsay (02:06:41):
Oh, it's not that bad.

Leo Laporte (02:06:42):
Oh, good. Not that bad. Oh, you're right. It's not why it's not even a full Alex

Alex Lindsay (02:06:48):
<Laugh> yeah, no. So it's mostly introducing just the concept that I thought was fascinating, which is that. So a lot of the lights that we buy and you can buy lights that are only 20 or $30. They don't have to be really expensive, but the expensive lights have the same system, which is called DMX. So DMX is how you it, it it'll have up to 500 and per universe, 512 signals. And one light might be eight of those, you know, which is like your color, the brightness, that type of thing. So it's really powerful. And we use it for a lot of things in, in the concerts that I work on. It's now we

Leo Laporte (02:07:23):
Control, control our lights here. Right. John mm-hmm <affirmative> we use DMX. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:07:27):
Yeah. And, and so the thing is, is that they always have a DMX board, like there's some board somewhere that you have to use to, to do this. And you're always like, I, I, there's gotta be an easier way. Well, it turns out that there is the one that I'm gonna show you here is made by Chave. This is a little, this little box here it's kind of magical. It has ethernet on one side and power. And then and then you have the, the three pin. You can get five pin as well, but don't, don't bother with a five pin there's <laugh> just that no one uses the extra pins. Anyway, so the but three pin or five pin in this little box will basically let you run an ethernet cable somewhere and then send those ethernet those, those DMX commands. Now you can have the rest of the lights all be, you know, on some kind of, you know, connected in series. And so they get all,

Leo Laporte (02:08:13):
They get all the, it's not that you can control two lights with this, but, but, but you control the whole system with it as well. If

Alex Lindsay (02:08:19):
Yeah. You just have in, they're all connected. And this is basically, I mean, for short connections, you can even use XLR, but the technically the, the, the resistance is different. So, so you, you, you don't wanna go very far with that, but it's it, but the, the connectors look exactly like XLR. And so the anyway, so then you just, you can just tie your lights together and now they, you, now you can control everything on a, so you can take one of these boxes and throw it up on a, in your RI in your somewhere. And then, and then connect, you know, just, just a Daisy chain, the rest of the, the lights with it, and then start giving them, you know, the lights all have their own addresses, and you can just tell them what to do. And it's really, I, I meant to, I was trying, I just ran outta time.

Leo Laporte (02:09:00):
There's so much cheaper than a big fancy DMX controller. And 

Alex Lindsay (02:09:05):
There's, there's

Leo Laporte (02:09:05):
More reliable, but you have to have the software, right.

Alex Lindsay (02:09:07):
Well, you still have to control it. And so we use things like ISAD Isadora, but made by you know, so, so Isadora is a piece of software that can talk DMX, you know, and it's and so that's made by trons and, and, and they, they they that's what a lot of stage folks use, you know, they can design these incredible things. It can, it can react to things around it. And so it's a very, really complex software, but there's also iPad apps that will do it, that are just talk, they talk IP. So they get to talk IP to this, but they're sending DMX commands oh, out. So you can have your iPad control, all your lights and everything else as well. And so it's a, it's a really, I mean, DMX is a, I'm learning more and more about it as we do more of these shows that I'm working on.

Alex Lindsay (02:09:50):
And it's just, it's just incredible, like what you can do with it. And so anyway, but it really, there was something about this that when I realized that I could take the IP and turn it back into DMX, I didn't have to use a hardware controller. I got pretty excited, so we we've got there's. This one is, is a good one. I also have one there's a one called DMX king and N tech, but they seem to be out of stock. So so, but these are, these are super hard. This

Leo Laporte (02:10:16):
Is available now. Sweetwater. Wow. Yeah,

Alex Lindsay (02:10:18):
Absolutely.

Leo Laporte (02:10:18):
So that's really so you could, each light is an individual light on an IP network and that you can connect 'em all together with this box and then connect the computer to this and now,

Alex Lindsay (02:10:30):
And then control all

Leo Laporte (02:10:30):
Of them. Now you've got granular control of each light. We,

Alex Lindsay (02:10:34):
We, and, and the thing is, is that like with Isadora, which is the software that a lot of, a lot of stage folks used to do this, you can do things like we have it, like, if someone, you can have it if you see motion over here, turn this light on, or if you get if someone joins, we have one where you can, we, I think we did one a while ago where someone, because we're using zoom OSC, which lets us know everything about what's happening in zoom. If this person joins, just turn the light on, just let you know that this person's now in the event, you know? And, and so those are all kinds of things that you, oh, that create, you can set all, if this, then that kind of stuff with DMX. I mean, that's not if this and that, but, but the bottom line is, is that you can create all kinds of very complex interactions that are tied into the DMX and much more. Yeah, yeah. This is Isadora, which I've recommended in the past. Oh, yes. Is incredibly powerful software for running all of this. And then we output it from there to you know, the, it, DMX is one of the languages. It speaks along with OSC and rest and, you know, all kinds of other things. So, so it speaks many, many things, but all those lights that you're seeing in that demo, let's see if they show the demo there, those are all like all those lights there and all those controls, that's all DMX controlled,

Leo Laporte (02:11:47):
Even audio,

Alex Lindsay (02:11:48):
A

Leo Laporte (02:11:49):
Mixture control with DMX. Right.

Alex Lindsay (02:11:51):
Usually use OSC for that. That's open sound, sound control. So OSC is really more of the audio and some of the other stuff. And then but, but, and then projection can be controlled. There's a lot of things that can be done. This is the kind of, this is a, a low code you know, visual programming interface for theater. Wow. And so, and mark, that's mark, and he's a genius he's been doing for a long time.

Leo Laporte (02:12:14):
<Laugh> so we have a broad, which I think breaks a lot. <Laugh> no, it's pretty reliable. Now when we first got it. I think we went through a few of 'em John, but it's okay now. Okay, good. But this would be a lot easier. Just do it, like have an iPad and control it on

Alex Lindsay (02:12:29):
An iPad. You definitely can have iPads control. Yeah. Especially you, you guys are doing. Yeah. It's simple. Pretty simple. We

Leo Laporte (02:12:34):
Just have pre pre-programmed slots for each show. Yeah. So John can press a button. Go ahead. Do it. Just show, show us. So we could be a, you know, some other show with the lighting take over twig. Yeah, exactly. I guess it's still your dance fever. Nevermind. I guess we can't do that. <Laugh> very good. The Chave DJ DMX. Whoa, here we go. There we go. Now I'm green might switch, wave. <Laugh> all. It all happens at once with what? And then he has just one button on the DMX controller that does it. You set it all up ahead of time with the faders and stuff or do it in software, which makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Cool. Very cool. Ooh. Now we're getting fancy. Welcome to the light show, Andy and ICO. Your pick of the week

Andy Ihnatko (02:13:22):
Mine is something that you might have heard of. You might not have, if you haven't, you should hear, have heard of it. If you have heard of it, this is a recommendation of something that will make it even more useful. There is a, I guess you called a movement called buy nothing. And so if you go to usually Facebook, well that's not gonna work for me at all. <Laugh>. Yeah, exactly. But, but it's, it's a wonderful, no, I think that's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. It's a wonderful kind of social contract sort of thing where the it's, again, it's mostly a Facebook thing or that's how it started, where you joined the buy nothing, Facebook group for your community. And so if like I'm right now, I'm looking at like a dresser that I don't need anymore. I've had it for 10 years.

Andy Ihnatko (02:13:59):
It's outlived its purpose, but it's still very, very good. And a it's too big for me to haul out to the dump. It's not worth my trying to sell it like on Craigslist or whatever. And I actually, it's too nice to not go to somebody who needs one. So I could just go to the local, buy nothing Facebook group post a couple pictures saying, Hey, anybody wants this message me and we'll arrange it day. You can come and pick it up or, or con consequently, if there's like, if I'm looking to refurnish my, my office and I just want as many bookcases, I can get my hands on. I might just keep an eye on that group and see people who have again are getting rid of bookcases and I will rent maybe rent a car, rent a truck from U-Haul and just basically spend the day going to three different places that I've arranged to pick up the bookcases that they need to get rid of.

Andy Ihnatko (02:14:46):
It's nice. But the only, the only problem is that it's on Facebook, eh, and it's not the most easy thing to navigate, cuz it's just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. But the last year they, they released a really good app for the iPhone and also Android. But we're talking about the iPhone here where it really is just give them, give them your location, give them a radius. And now it really is just when you fire up the app, cuz you're just bored. It will show you all the people that have something that they want to get rid of or people who are saying, Hey, I need a I'm my, my, my nephew is just getting started out. He needs furniture. I especially need a bureau. I can just say, Hey, I've got a bureau. Here's my, you know, here message me. Here's an address.

Andy Ihnatko (02:15:24):
And you can come pick it up anytime you want. It's a really, really great thing that it, I love the motives of it. It really is just all about, there are so many situations exactly like that, where you have something that is too good to throw away or too cumbersome to throw away. And you know, someone else can have value of it. You don't even want to bother trying to get $50 for it on a, at a yard sale, something you just want a out of your house and B the pleasure of knowing that someone else is making good use out of it, who needed this thing and buy nothing is really a great way to do that. And the app is it's kind of fun in your community to, I, I, I installed it a few weeks ago and I learned to have to make sure I turn off the lizard part of my brain, cuz it's like, you know, I don't need a console stereo, but I bet I could turn that into like a Plex server.

Andy Ihnatko (02:16:08):
I could replace the speakers with Andy. It's a big, huge Magnox cabinet made out of like blonde wood from 1963. It takes you have no space to put it. And it will sit in the house for two years until you do anything with it or put it back on by nothing, leave it alone. But it's, it's, it's fun. It's fun to see what people are getting rid of. It's especially good if you live in a college town <laugh> and, and cuz I do live near, I've always lived like kind of near colleges and it's like really you have a 45 inch like Sony, like really good TV. And you're just about to toss it really. You goes, you when go back to school, the full this probably gonna get 65 inch, this thing doesn't have HDR like, oh you, yes, I will take your free 45 inch TV.

Leo Laporte (02:16:55):
Absolutely. And this is why Andy has 7 45 inch television sets.

Alex Lindsay (02:17:01):
We used to I'm used,

Andy Ihnatko (02:17:02):
I'm using it as an alternative to daylight

Leo Laporte (02:17:04):
<Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:17:05):
I used to do yard work for a woman who had a very large house and the, the only we got paid, I don't know, it was like five bucks an hour to do it. This is in the mid eighties. And the, the, the big, the big thing was we got dumpster dive at their, at big threw stuff away. They had their own little dump and there was just all, all these things that they threw away that I was like, this is really, I mean my alarm clock for like half a decade was <laugh> was something I pulled out of the trash. Yeah. But Andy, like the, my obsession right now is turning very old radios. Like I'm, I'm just starting to do the research turning very old, like fifties, thirties, forties radios, and in souping them up with like raspberry pies inside. So the knobs still should work, but then it sounds like nice, you know, anyway, so I'm, it's

Leo Laporte (02:17:49):
Actually easier to get radios from the 1930s than it is to get raspberry pies. So that should tell you something

Alex Lindsay (02:17:55):
<Laugh> it is. I, I see them all the time, my, my kids for, and I, for some reason go to antique stores just to kind of wander around and look at stuff. And and so you see those radios all the time.

Leo Laporte (02:18:04):
Well, we built the brick house for some reason. Roger Ambrose is our designer. Just, he, he discovered the Petaluma antique stores

Alex Lindsay (02:18:13):
I was in, in the military. Have you been down to the military museum? Oh yeah. In the basement. Like

Leo Laporte (02:18:19):
His father works there. So <laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:18:23):
Who who's whose father works

Leo Laporte (02:18:24):
There. Lisa's father go to the Jerry Rosenthal's booth. There he'll gets you probably some

Alex Lindsay (02:18:30):
Good deals. I might, I might have talked to him this weekend. We were, we were just there. We were just, just wandering through the he's

Leo Laporte (02:18:34):
So funny cuz he's basically he collects crap and that's the military museum is really a bunch of booze for different people who collect crap, selling crap. And <laugh>,

Alex Lindsay (02:18:45):
That's how it's a, that, that one is actually a particularly good antique store. I always

Leo Laporte (02:18:50):
Say that there's

Alex Lindsay (02:18:50):
A lot of stuff. I, I, over the years I become Kau because my, my daughter and I go to him like almost every week in.

Leo Laporte (02:18:56):
Oh my God. Yeah. He's really nice. He's above. He's not in the basement where he's in the up. In fact it's like this third booth on the left, as you go in <laugh>

Alex Lindsay (02:19:05):
I'm probably, I was walking through it. Jerry

Leo Laporte (02:19:06):
Rosenthal, look for him. Yeah. It's it's his booth at the Petaluma military museum.

Alex Lindsay (02:19:12):
It's crazy that you go down, you go downstairs and then there's a, there's like it's all military Fil and then you go to a corner and there's a museum. Yeah. With Jeeps.

Andy Ihnatko (02:19:19):
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:19:19):
It's crazy. It's pretty wild. Yeah. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (02:19:22):
Somebody drove into the storefront, you know, accidentally turned like this and planted in the storefront a few years ago. But other than that, that maybe that's how the Jeep got there. <Laugh> yeah. I had paint it green, put a price tag on it. I

Alex Lindsay (02:19:37):
Had, it was Anie take it. I had to buy some, I had to buy some little lights at the DJ store and then I had then I, oh

Leo Laporte (02:19:43):
Yeah. The DJ store. Another store. Don't understand how that stays in business. Mm-Hmm

Alex Lindsay (02:19:47):
It's on the main

Leo Laporte (02:19:48):
Street of you, of Petaluma. Like the people,

Alex Lindsay (02:19:51):
People like me wandering and buy $2,000 worth of lights without asking anything. This is like, yeah, I need those lights. They

Leo Laporte (02:19:56):
Get all sorts of stuff there. What do we buy there? My mic stand comes from there. Look at that. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (02:20:01):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:20:02):
Yeah. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> there you go. <Laugh> why downtown Petaluma is the strangest place. I gotta tell you the military museum and the Mike stand store.

Alex Lindsay (02:20:10):
It's I live in Nevada. It's pretty cool. Petaluma's is pretty cool. It's

Leo Laporte (02:20:14):
A lot. No, I very happy. Let me tell you. I love it. It's good.

Alex Lindsay (02:20:17):
It's good. It's

Leo Laporte (02:20:17):
Good. Downtown. Hey, when when Georgia Dow was on TWI on Sunday, she talked about her brand new Nebula class. And guess who else has a Nebula class? Renee Richie.

Rene Ritchie (02:20:28):
That's when, when I went to New York for that Tuesday that I had to miss here,

Leo Laporte (02:20:32):
This is what you were doing. That's

Rene Ritchie (02:20:34):
Secret. Wasn't announced yet. So we couldn't say

Leo Laporte (02:20:37):
How exciting. So this is a, is the equivalent of a masterclass what's yours about

Rene Ritchie (02:20:42):
Mine is about rapid turnaround video because one of the things I had to learn to do, especially at IOR is we didn't have a big, like, we didn't have like four or five people at an event like the verge or some of the bigger outlets did. So I had to figure out for breaking news, for live events, for like they would give us embargoes for 24 hours, like basically the embargo lifted the next morning. And I had to figure out how to do like an embargoed review or coverage in no time, no time at all. So here I go through everything that I learned about like what prep you can do before an event all the stuff you need to get together and then what to capture during an event or a review period and then like how to edit it, like as quickly as possible. And just to, to make sure that you use every moment of time that you actually have when it comes to, to rapid turnaround video.

Leo Laporte (02:21:26):
Oh, this, oh, there's serenity. This is really good because this is a skill and more and more people are, are are need to this. So this, so you pay, you pay what, two, $2 a month for this.

Rene Ritchie (02:21:40):
So this is, I think it's, it's $10 a month, but if you go to Nebula classes.com/renee Richie, I think there's a discount. Yes.

Leo Laporte (02:21:48):
Friends of Renee Richie sign up enjoy a discount of $2 a month. Well, we're all your friends. Yeah. So very nice. Yeah,

Rene Ritchie (02:21:54):
Absolutely. And then you get all the other nebulous stuff at the same time. You get all the originals exclusives bonus videos, no ads, no small, all that kind of stuff. You, you, you get as well. So it's, and we're, we're building like George George's class came out this Tuesday. My class came out last week. Thomas Frank will teach you how to be like, most people don't know business as a creator. They have no, like they can make videos, but they don't know actually how to make a living. Devin stone who's legal, legal who's fantastic. Has had to, yeah. Had to Sue like a lawyer as he decided like, most people don't know how to actually Sue somebody. But there's like my so much, really, really good.

Leo Laporte (02:22:27):
This is neat.

Andy Ihnatko (02:22:28):
I, I just, I just wanna endorse that. I for, I just, I finally, I just discovered legal, legal, like over the weekend. And I was binge watching every single one of his breakdowns of like my cousin Vinny. Like now he's a, he's a real lawyer and he's gonna basically breakdown everything that's going on in the trial scenes. What's what they did. Right. What they did wrong. And yeah, I just, and really

Rene Ritchie (02:22:49):
Talk on NAS broken last week. Yes.

Andy Ihnatko (02:22:51):
Yes. Like where Tom cruise, here's four different ways. He should be getting the death penalty for what he's doing. So a

Leo Laporte (02:22:56):
Lot of these, a lot of these guys are YouTube creators. Renee is that

Rene Ritchie (02:22:59):
They're all, it's all YouTubers like Sam from win. He does Windover and twice, half is interesting and he talks about, so it it's every what nebulous, everything that we've

Leo Laporte (02:23:07):
Learned, what is nebulous plan? It's like they wanna make kind of a grassroots masterclass kind of a thing with these,

Rene Ritchie (02:23:13):
Yeah. It's four creators by creators. Cause a whole bunch of stuff with the creator economy felt like VC bros trying to come in and rift creators like take everything from us. Yeah. And we wanna do like basically what you're doing. It's like, it's, it's completely run by creators. It's all four creators, creators and equity in everything. Great. And then we wanna make like the most amazing stuff that we can make together.

Leo Laporte (02:23:31):
I love it. And you have a Roku app, a Google app, an app store app, an Amazon app, so that you can watch these in an app. You can watch these on the web rapid turnaround video. That's great. Renee. I am, this is great. It's fun to see NEB Nebula really kind of grow and take off nebula.app to find out more.

Rene Ritchie (02:23:51):
Yep. We're trying 500, 500,000 subscribers now on Nebula's

Leo Laporte (02:23:54):
Really, that's wonderful for us. That is really great. And I love it cuz you've basically built on the free platform that YouTube gives you. So yeah,

Rene Ritchie (02:24:03):
We look at it like an expansion pack. It's like YouTube is really good at some things, but like for, for YouTube to really work, you have to think of it. Like you have to have a show. So like you can have the same actor in Malcolm, in the middle and in I forget the one where he plays a meth dealer. <Laugh> the I'm blanking on the name, breaking bad. Yeah. You can like the same act can be in both those shows, but they can't be in the same show or the audience gets really confused. Yes. So YouTube is, and audiences are really good when you like MacBreak Weekly every week you watch it, you get Mac stuff. It's not like a random topic every week. Right. Right. But a lot of us have multiple interests and there are people who are interested in us as creators and that doesn't do well on YouTube. Also some of the people do like world war II historical stuff, which doesn't do well on YouTube there's or, or like there's just a bunch of things that YouTube isn't great at. So we do the stuff on YouTube that works really well there. And if you're invested in us, you can go get all the stuff that doesn't work great on YouTube over on this platform that we're doing on our own. That's

Leo Laporte (02:24:56):
Very smart. That's very, very smart. Yeah. Also it's good. Not to be too beholden to any one platform like YouTube. So it's good to have that.

Rene Ritchie (02:25:05):
That's how it started because it was during the great demonetization here and a bunch of educational channels because for a variety of reasons got com completely, you know, decimated during that time. Right. and so this was one of the ideas that we figured could help insulate us against that happening again.

Leo Laporte (02:25:20):
Awesome.

Andy Ihnatko (02:25:21):
Ren just signed up. I just, they just charged me 10 bucks my first month

Leo Laporte (02:25:26):
Go to, oh you, oh Andy Nebula classes.com/renee Richie. You should have, you should have done that because that's $2. Oh well you're giving, you know, your helping him out. That's good. We appreciate our support. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Renee. We have a little club too. I wanna mention I've just started reading the book that we're gonna be doing in Stacy's book club on June 16th, termination shock. I love Neil Stevenson. It's his latest. So if you are a member of club, twit definitely will want to be reading that so you can join Stacy June 16th for a book club, July 14th, Alex Lindsay asked me anything. There's lots of stuff going on in club twit. The main, you know, reason we thought we should do this is to give you ad free versions of all the shows. So for seven bucks a month, you get that. But it turns out there's this discord is become this great meeting place.

Leo Laporte (02:26:19):
And lots of stuff goes on there all the time during shows and not. And plus we have the TWI plus feed where you'll hear the entire 30 minute discussion of the Starship from episode one specular highlights things like that, stuff that we don't put in the show that happens before the show begins club TWI is at twit.tv/club, TWI seven bucks a month. We appreciate your support. It helps us do a lot of stuff, including launch new shows. We've got some in the works. That's it for MacBreak Weekly. Thank you, Renee Richie, Renee. Richie's at youtube.com/renee Richie. Also nebulous class.com Nebula class.com/renee Richie. If you wanna get that great series, Andy, and NACO, when are you gonna be on GBH next?

Andy Ihnatko (02:27:05):
One day early this week, I'm on thursday@littlebeforeonepmgotowgbhnews.org to either scream it live or stream it later.

Leo Laporte (02:27:14):
Nice. Alex Lindsay, office hours.global great stuff all the time. And of course for Monday's keynote, you'll have your, it's a conversation. It's a very different,

Alex Lindsay (02:27:26):
Like, it's a very, very different thing because it's, it'll be like 15 or 20 of us all talking at the same time. Well kind of it.

Leo Laporte (02:27:32):
And then that evening you Renee, I Justine, and a couple of developers will talk about the state of the union address and more. And of

Alex Lindsay (02:27:39):
Course, and then, and in the second hours, Tuesday, Tuesday, we're talking about video Wednesday, we're talking about AR Thursday's kind of everything. And then, and then we we're covering Sy gear on Saturday and we're doing a, this Saturday, which is the, the audio conference. And so we're covering a lot of conferences all at one time. So it so yeah, it's three conferences and, and then I'm speaking at Infocon next one.

Leo Laporte (02:28:04):
Oh, nice. So there's that? Oh, nine. Oh dot me OEO. Oh nine. Oh media.com. If you want hire Alex,

Alex Lindsay (02:28:11):
It's actually oh, nine oh.media. I just got it all in

Leo Laporte (02:28:14):
One. I get that all that's good. Oh, nine oh.media. Much, much better. Thank you, Alex. Thank you. Thank Andy. Thank you, Renee. We do MacBreak Weekly, Tuesdays 11:00 AM. Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern time, 1800 UTC. You can watch us do it live. We have live audio and video streams at live.twi.tv. After the fact you can go to the, the website and get the shows twi.tv/bw. There's also a YouTube channel format, MacBreak Weekly, and of course you can subscribe in your favorite podcast client and get it that way too. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time now. It's, I'm sorry to save time to go back to work. Cause break time is over. See you next time. Byebye.

Rod Pyle (02:28:53):
Hey, I'm rod Pyle, editor of ad Astra magazine, and each week I'm joined by Tariq Malik the editor in chief over @ Space.com in our new this weekend space podcast, every Friday Tarik and I take a deep dive into the stories that define the new space age what's NASA up to when will Americans, once again set foot on the moon. And how about those samples from the perseverance Rover? When do those coming home? What the heck has Elon must done now, in addition to all the latest and greatest and space exploration, we'll take an occasional look at bits of space flight history that you probably never heard of and all with an eye towards having a good time along the way. Check us out on your favorite podcaster.