MacBreak Weekly Episode 819 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Andy Rene,, Alex, all here. It's one of those slow days just before the worldwide developers' conference. We'll talk about some rumors about what Apple might be announcing June 6th at WWDC also some changes in Apple management owed Tim cook and farewell to one of the great in the Mac community. It's all coming up next on MacBreak Weekly Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is,

Leo Laporte (00:00:42):
This is MacBreak Weekly episode 819 recorded Tuesday May 24th, 2022. Become one with the upset MacBreak Weekly is brought to you by IT Pro TV. Give your team an engaging it development platform to level up their skills. Volume discounts. Start at five seats. Go to it. Pro.Tv/MacBreak , and be sure to mention MacBreak 30 to your it pro TV account executive to get 30% off or more on a business plan and buy eight sleep. Go to eight. Sleep.com/MacBreak for exclusive Memorial day savings through June 6th. Cool. Down this summer with eight sleep now shipping within the us Canada and the UK. And if you're listening after June 6th, use the same URL to check out the pod pro cover and save $150 a checkout. And by collide get endpoint management that puts the user first visit collide K O L I D E.com/MacBreak to learn more and activate a free 14 day trial today. No credit card required. It's time for MacBreak quickly. This is the show where we cover the non-New from Apple all this month, actually for a couple more weeks. Anyway, that's Andy Ihnatko shorting away in the background. He will not be at a loss for words during today's program. Hello, Andrew?

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:03):
No, not, not, not with that report about rumors back backstage about the development of Apple's AR goggles. Oh boy. I I've got a great feeling about that, about that product. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:02:15):
Good. We're gonna talk about it.

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:16):
That's good. We're gonna talk about it.

Leo Laporte (00:02:17):
Yeah. Rene Richie, youtube.com/Rene Richie. Hello Rene.

Rene Ritchie (00:02:22):
I'm wearing them right now, Leo. You can't tell because they have a screen on the outside mirroring my face. I'm wearing them right now. Als, there's dub dub to be fair, like they just put out a dub dub, press release.

Leo Laporte (00:02:31):
So we have a little bit, oh, okay. I'll go run and get that while we say hello to Alex Lindsay, office hours dot globe. Hello. It's good to be here. Talk a little longer because I'm going to the Apple newsroom right now. <Laugh> com slash newsroom. We're read between told story. Here we go.

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:51):
Between top gun and the, and, and the Bob spurs movie, who is okay with being suddenly okay. With being back in a movie theater again, I'm so on the fence, I'm trying to be good and say, no, we're not. I shouldn't be back at

Rene Ritchie (00:03:03):
The, we rented one. We rented one, which is, was surprisingly affordable. If you have enough people,

Leo Laporte (00:03:06):
I refuse to be held hostage by Tom cruise. I'm gonna watch it streaming. I don't care what he says. So there,

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:13):
I would like to be rescued by, from hostage to, cause I believe he's the one actor to see, pull

Leo Laporte (00:03:18):
That off. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:03:19):
Everything everywhere all the time. Always. I forget the exact title at movie, but everyone I know tells you I have to go see that immediately.

Leo Laporte (00:03:24):
Yeah. We also decided not to go to a theater to see that I closed Petaluma last week and, and we'll be watching that on streaming too. I have a perfectly good home theater. I have no desire to go to a movie theater. Sorry. You

Rene Ritchie (00:03:35):
Have Alex Lindsay sitting on top of your projector. Adjusting it for you in real time

Leo Laporte (00:03:38):
Is exactly exactly. Actually. That's perfect. I did have a team of like four people coming and adjust the projector cuz it's, it's very finicky. It's a short throw projector and it's a special screen and it all has to be just so. And you know, that was a couple of years ago and now it's just all well Jod and this, but I, I just pretend that mean

Rene Ritchie (00:03:56):
Like a new car. You clean it for the week. It's

Leo Laporte (00:03:57):
All Keystone and messed up and I,

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:59):
But honestly, once you, once you get that smoothing turned on, oh my God. The experience I never going back

Leo Laporte (00:04:05):
To,

Andy Ihnatko (00:04:06):
I just want, I just wanna see someone's head

Rene Ritchie (00:04:09):
Smoothing

Leo Laporte (00:04:11):
Apples wine developer conference kicks off June 6th with keynote address. Well, there's the first revelation.

Andy Ihnatko (00:04:18):
We're we're

Rene Ritchie (00:04:18):
Still, it's gonna be a keynote. It's done.

Leo Laporte (00:04:20):
It's it's good morning. They're gonna have

Rene Ritchie (00:04:21):
An event on the same day and the same time that they have it every year.

Leo Laporte (00:04:24):
Good morning. Good morning. 10:00 AM Pacific it'll stream on Apple.com and of course we'll do our thing here as usual. That's a Monday. That is a little bit of a change. Isn't it?

Rene Ritchie (00:04:39):
Not for it dubbed up. Not really the Monday, the rest that are all Tuesday.

Leo Laporte (00:04:42):
Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Platforms, state of the union follows immediately after at 1:00 PM Pacific the design awards. That good stuff. Leo, this is always the same

Rene Ritchie (00:04:51):
Platform. State of the union is like the second keynote, but it's all the good stuff. All the developer

Leo Laporte (00:04:55):
Framework. Technical stuff. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:04:56):
Yeah. It's Craig, it's Craig Feder. Ricque's vice president. So it's like S Stephan and Sebastian and they come out and they tell you about all the, like how the stuff actually works, that they just went through quickly during the main, well, I

Leo Laporte (00:05:07):
Do have a air force one's accidental leak last year on the whiteboard at Apple of, of top secret features. Do you think

Rene Ritchie (00:05:17):
It's a

Leo Laporte (00:05:17):
Double bluff for WW DC? 22 haircut reminder, use front facing camera, personal hologram video call standin. I wonder if they're intentionally burying some actual like tidbits in here, dog AirPods. Do we call 'em air Budds does Siri speak dog? Autonomous phone retrieval. Find me personal stylist feature, scroll to recharge. That's my favorite. And then Mac OS brainstorming, Mac O S Zeppelin Mac O S big fish. Big fun. I can't read it. His hands in front upgrades to health. It's getting hard to read here. Obviously this is a joke. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:01):
Well, the thing is remember over years and years and years Steve jobs during his keynotes was like secretly dog fooding keynote, right? Like they didn't, we, it wasn't announced maybe this is they're developing a whiteboard or something and we're

Leo Laporte (00:06:15):
Putting the dog butt

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:16):
The live

Leo Laporte (00:06:18):
<Laugh>. I would put it past

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:20):
They're they're

Leo Laporte (00:06:20):
Clever. The rumor one rumor we did hear is that Apple is gonna put a screen on the front of the a, so first of all, credible, that they would say something next week about the AR goggles. Is that reasonable? Mm

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:34):
I'm I'm they,

Alex Lindsay (00:06:36):
They are kit. Yeah. Yeah. I would be surprised that no

Leo Laporte (00:06:38):
Hardware, even though mark Erman says they showed them to the board of directors last week.

Andy Ihnatko (00:06:45):
Eh, but they had

Rene Ritchie (00:06:46):
Iphones for like a year before the announcement, even Eric Schmidt got an iPhone, like way before they

Leo Laporte (00:06:50):
Were publicly announced. Okay. boy, you're really raining on my parade today.

Rene Ritchie (00:06:56):
I'm sorry. Sorry, Leo. I apologize.

Leo Laporte (00:06:57):
Will they have a shirt on the, the Apple car will be on stage? Yeah, the rumor was that there will be 14. Was it 14 screen

Andy Ihnatko (00:07:08):
Cameras? 14 cameras, cameras facing out and facing in. Yeah. So partly so that so, well, there was a conversation, a very rational conversation happening amongst all designers as hardware saying. Yeah. But one of the big stumbling blocks is that like, when you're wearing them like outside or in a group of people like you're you were wearing these blindfolds and no one can interact with you. And rather than them RA apparent and according to the story, rather than them saying, yeah, you're right. I guess this is, this is kind of a dumb idea. And we need to sort of navigate around that. They said, no problem. We'll have

Leo Laporte (00:07:37):
S

Andy Ihnatko (00:07:38):
Facing LCD screens with video images of your eyes. So if you can still have that eye contact, not

Leo Laporte (00:07:43):
The least bit creepy,

Alex Lindsay (00:07:45):
I don't can, is

Rene Ritchie (00:07:46):
That what there is like significant latency with the blinking <laugh> like, just me, you're all

Alex Lindsay (00:07:50):
Off. Did they say we're putting LCDs on the, on the phone? No, there's

Andy Ihnatko (00:07:53):
A rumor. There's a story. There's, there's a story in a, in a newsletter called puck that wasn't fam wasn't familiar with that had a long, long history of, of the development of AR glasses, nine to five Mac and a whole bunch of a couple others, like summarized it, expanded upon it. Yeah. and so it's basic basically the, the storyline is that it's been go, it's been a very active for five or six years. There have been fights between the design, the advanced technology group, like the research people and the design people with Johnny ive at that point being the head of user interface and basically anything that's supposed to be pretty making all the final decisions. And as a result, again, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's bad to make any judgment about something that Apple hasn't announced based on us, based on a news story that you don't know exactly where it's coming from, but there's nothing revelatory about it that would get one excited about what's happening in the, this

Alex Lindsay (00:08:47):
First. Well, I, the, the reason I asked is that I, I did read the article and I thought that when they were talking about inward, I, I know that the reason that you want inward cameras, there's not so much to put, not so much to put your eyes on the front, which would be super weird. It is to get all the expressions from your eyes because they wanna put 'em into emojis or, or to, to ver, you know, I don't know about Apple wants where Apple wants to put 'em, but other people wanna track your eyes pocket. Super. If you ever want be

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:13):
Dollum and Lord of the rings, it'd be

Alex Lindsay (00:09:14):
Very handy as

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:15):
Well. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:09:16):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:09:18):
The thing is, there's also a rumor about IK displays on the, on the outside of a folding Apple phone. So maybe they're the same rumor and they'll be an Iink display on the outside of the VR headset. That'll update your facial expressions excruciatingly slowly.

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so, so mostly you can get like your eyes looking like, like death from the death of the endless and the, and the Sandman. I was reported

Rene Ritchie (00:09:39):
Previously white, like Alex, he for Alex Heath when he was reporting on it, I think I forget he moves around so much. He might have been a business insider. He might have been at verge, might have been at the NBC. He gets around that there were external displays and nobody could figure out what they were for. And some people thought they would show you charging status while you, while the headset was offer, show you notifications while the headset was off. But you can just see a meeting somewhere with some people going now they're not human enough. You've gotta be able to see what the world is outside you and the world's gotta see what's inside you. So all we'll do is make a virtual glass between the two, and then it'll be perfect. They'll see your eyes. What, and you'll see their face. What

Alex Lindsay (00:10:11):
It is kind of weird you in the new, in the, in the quests, you know, they have outward and it, you feel like you're in the Lord of the rings. It's like, it's like when you put the ring on, it's like, everything's kind of like washy and black and white and you, you can see out into it world, but it's still, yeah, it's very, it's very rich the world, like, so it's but, but I think that, you know, the, the, the, the thing that is important to, as we read all of these things is that, you know, I've worked in and out of the development of a lot of these headsets, not, not Apples. I don't any idea what they're doing, but this is really hard. Like it is course like what they're trying to do. And what everyone's trying to do is, is taking billions and billions of dollars of development.

Alex Lindsay (00:10:49):
And most people have had some version of a dead end. And it's just, it's really, really hard to do. And, and I think that most people know that at some point it's gonna be pretty interesting. It depends on the, you know, I think that Apple's probably gonna lean more towards the Google side of things than the Facebook side, the Facebook side's kinda like we wanna put you in this and have you stay there forever. The Google side is more of like, this is a momentary experience, you know, that you're gonna put it on and experience something and then take it off and go back to what you're doing. And I think that Apple, my guess is, is that it's gonna probably go more in the, you're gonna put it on as a add-on to other experiences, as opposed to it's where you're going to dwell, which is, I think Facebook is going more towards the dwell.

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:29):
Mm it's hard. It's hard to say we've, again, we're only going from rumors, but mostly we're talk we're the, the, the designs we've been seeing so far point to fully immersive VR or maybe something that is kind of like what the Oculus does, where much, much better 4k cameras are giving you live video of what you would be seeing. If you did not have this thing in front of your face. The, I mean, the, the question for me is that there are companies that are, it is hot, hot, hot development. Every Qualcomm has, has samples of what they're working on. Many, many other companies have production samples of what they want aim for. And they're all aiming for enterprise government military healthcare factories. It's a, it's a great, great solution that people are, that companies are actually buying for things like for things like doing a mil, doing a checkout of a, of, of, of a of, of an airplane before flight, where there's a immense list.

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:21):
There's a big book of checklists, of maintenance, things that have to be done. And the ability to simply have even it cost $3,000 to have this thing on the workers face. If that allows them to process this checklist much, much faster and get that paperwork processed much, much faster, cuz it is being checked off as they're doing it, that's worth the money. The, the, the worry that I have is that if Apple really is headed, if Apple is aiming that towards a, every consumer experience, they will be reduced. They something that goes beyond gaming, they will be trying something that's unprecedented. Apple's good at that, but let's just acknowledge that as you, as you say, Alex, it's very, very difficult and they'd be doing something that's unprecedented.

Alex Lindsay (00:13:02):
And I think that it's gonna also be high end consumer. I think that if, if this gets, if this headset, if it exists, comes out at less than $3,000, I'll be pretty amazed. I think that, I think it's rumor three to 5,000 rumor three, 5,000 for this developer edition. They're gonna call the developer edition and then they're gonna sell. Apparently, like

Rene Ritchie (00:13:23):
There was apparently a big argument about the battery life too, where some people were saying they wanted to have recharge like changeable batteries, user changeable batteries. So people could wear it for eight hours and other people saying we're not Facebook. We don't wanna create an alternate world for people. Right. We don't want them to live in this. We want them to use it like an Apple TV, put on something fun and then get out. So if the battery has to be recharged after two hours or three hours, that's fine. That's actually better for their health. And, and it sounds like that's the group that's winning right now.

Andy Ihnatko (00:13:48):
Yeah. As well, as well as the idea of do we have all the processing and all the battery on board, or do we have a communicating with a companion device or a phone to get to share some of the, the processing power. And that's another idea where it seems as though no, we want this to be an entirely self-contained device that doesn't rec like an Apple watch, that doesn't necessarily require an external device to function at all, which is another thing that's, again, it's interesting. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but it, the, the, when you, when you have a device that can only be used for an hour and a half or two hours at a time, you are absolutely doing that because you have an idea of how you're gonna be explaining this to potential customers and those customers, the use case is being no, that's perfectly fine. We're gonna have just a, we're gonna have a cart where people, when they go onto the flight deck, they grab a pair of goggles off the charging cart. And then after they do their hours worth worth, they come back off the flight line and they drop those goggles right back in the cart. For instance, I

Rene Ritchie (00:14:40):
Remember like WWDC 2017 and they had this whole announcement with valve and valve was gearing up to do all this VR stuff with Apple. And then Johnny apparently walks in and says, no, no, no, we're not gonna have an external box. We're not gonna have anything where you have to wear goggles and they connect. And that was canceled. And then valve went away and then all that stuff just died. And they had to reboot

Leo Laporte (00:14:57):
Basically. And don't forget the army HoloLens deal, which has gone belly up by the way 22 billion. And already they're saying no soldier in the field's ever want to risk his life with this thing, by the way, this is the Facebook prototype from a couple of years ago. <Laugh> sorry. Yep. Not at all. Not at all. Creepy. this is, well, remember mark down street is being seen on a screen in front. Facebook apparently had, has been working on this for a while. So maybe that's where the rumor comes or maybe Apple is stealing a page from Facebook. Go ahead, Ren. They're gonna try everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, I mean, doesn't mean anything. Yeah. I'm sure there's, I'm sure they have ones with Google eyes on them and you know, let's see if this works, so, oh, that'd

Alex Lindsay (00:15:44):
Be great. Yeah. I think that, I still think that the, the, the, one of the advantages at Apple, I think we're gonna see take advantage of is the fact that they have a larger ecosystem. So a lot of the AR kit stuff that's been built, I still think that the office tools will get U S D Z six months to a year before the, before the headset comes out because the demand for building 3d models will go up dramatically, you know, to U S D Z. So if you release keynote, for instance, with U SD Z suddenly there's gonna be thousands and thousands of objects built for keynote. Because it's, you know, and they'll be sold at, you know, 10 bucks for 25 or whatever, but that's gonna generate this huge amount of, of content that's much easier to manage and then put into the goggles, this something that that's the kind of platform experience that would be very difficult for competitors to build. It also probably means USD Z becomes

Leo Laporte (00:16:37):
That no one has any idea until we get a million of them out there and people are using them, what people are gonna want. They may, in fact, not want 3d models floating in space. They may want plain text it's unknown. So you get a lot of people using it.

Andy Ihnatko (00:16:51):
Well that that's, that's why enterprise is such a great fit for, for these goggles. Again, if you, if you're, if your job is to deal with clients on here is the here's, you gave us a million dollars to determine the feasibility of building this widget for you that, so that, so that you can post, you can you can install them in existing engines and get another 10 years of service life off of something that's worth $3,000 a unit to have 10 of them, so that when you bring the client in, you can really show them what you're going for. If they, I think any company that tries to say here's $3,000, and now you can have a triceratops on your desk. It's like, okay, but how does that make me money or justify a $3,000 employee?

Alex Lindsay (00:17:29):
Well, well, like in, in Amazon, if you get to the right object, it's, it's not happening everywhere, but on Amazon, I, I was looking for a new TV stand underneath my TV and it popped up and said, would you like to see it in your room? And I hit it and there it is. And I decided, I didn't want that one, but, but the thing is, is that it, but that was really valuable to me as a user, because I was able to see that this was a little too wide and a little too high and only made possible because the LIDAR is super accurate and it was able to place it exactly into where it needed to be. And I could see the lighting, the color, everything size, and that's where I think we're gonna see a, again, it's not a matter of having a triceratops, although for education, that might be so, but the the, the ability to see things pre things that you want to you possibly want to use is I think gonna be a big part of what a lot of retailers wanna do. My

Rene Ritchie (00:18:20):
Barely my barely educated guests is that first it's gonna be an only Apple product. Cause that's what they do. They, you know, they have limited resources, even though they're a trillion dollar company and they make big bets and they're gonna wanna do something that shows off things that only Apple can do, which is usually integration with like an, an M three class processor and a, a special graphics unit just for this machine. But then also they'll follow the Apple TV model. And my under my very uneducated guess is that whatever we do on the Apple TV today from fitness plus to watching movies, all the share, play stuff now, too, which is collaborative, you'll be able to sit with your emoji next to Andy and Alex and Leo's emoji and watch that movie without having to go to the IMAX and they'll have all of those features. And yes, they'll, they'll sign big deals with like Boeing or, or like American airlines, just something and have those the same way they do that with the iPad and the iPhone today. But their end goal is gonna be a mainstream consumer product, not at $3,000, but at like $1,000, they'd rather a single person pay a thousand dollars for, for an Apple VR headset than a family pay $200 for an Apple TV box. That's a huge upgrade for them. <Laugh> so I'm like, my guess is that's the way they're talking. That'd

Leo Laporte (00:19:20):
Also be why Apple and this, this is the puck story you were talking about. Andy puck.news is a new really good by the way publication. I subscribed to it when the baritone day went over there, but a lot of good people, Dylan Byers who is very well connected is the one who suggested that EA has been in play and that Disney, Apple and Amazon all are bidding. And at first I thought, why would Apple want a game company like EA? I mean, you know, that's EA sports. It's not, doesn't really, it's not, it wouldn't be for arcade, but on the other hand, maybe there'd be some skills and even some technology that would make sense in an AR world.

Rene Ritchie (00:19:56):
I mean, app purchases. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:19:58):
Yeah. I mean, you look at, you look at robo recall is probably still the best game that was built for the Oculus. And oh yeah. And it's kind of thing that, you know, the, the, the kind of thing that EA knows how to do really well, it's, it's more than just putting 3d objects in there. It is understanding game design and process and, and that's gonna be, yeah. They need that

Leo Laporte (00:20:15):
Trivial and they probably don't have that expertise. I would, I

Alex Lindsay (00:20:18):
Would imagine. Well, that's why Microsoft, you know, of course is yeah. They purchased game companies

Leo Laporte (00:20:21):
Exactly about, well,

Andy Ihnatko (00:20:23):
Well, there's not many,

Andy Ihnatko (00:20:25):
Well, Microsoft is difference cuz they own a legit game platform of one of the most popular game platforms. When I, when I was reading that that idea of lots of peoples putting in bids for EA, including Apple, that really got me, it's I, I have a limited imagination to figure out what Apple would do with EA because it's way too valuable as a content creation studio to basically say, Hey, we've got all this talent for creating 3d experiences. Let's build them. Let's, let's bring them into Apple on the other hand. Wow. It's it be? It would be like instead of buying instead of buying movies at festivals, really trying to have your own MGM and saying, is Apple gonna be in a PO, is Apple going to be willing with their management structure to say, yes, we will invest 40, 50, 60 million over 3, 4, 5 years on an unpro game concept, but with a very, very good team behind it with the hopes that it will, it will elevate, it will help sell Apple services and Apple hardware. It reminds me a little bit of lack of

Leo Laporte (00:21:26):
It reminds me a little bit of the beats acquisition when the beats acquisition happened. It was like, what the hell are they thinking? Do they want headphones? Maybe they want streaming music. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> we learned from trip nickel's book that in fact they already had a streaming music project going on inside Apple. And that was a bit of a competition between the beats folks and the Apple folks. The, the beats deal was even weirder than this EA deal, at least with the EA deal you well,

Rene Ritchie (00:21:49):
Yeah. Did you notice an Easter egg there? Like cuz they, they named that product fuse and then if you go back, that was the name of Tony Fidel's company when they hired him to come

Leo Laporte (00:21:55):
In and make the iPod.

Rene Ritchie (00:21:57):
Yeah. And I wonder if that was just a little bit of a, you know, this is a future of music buddy.

Leo Laporte (00:22:00):
Yeah, yeah. EA owns FIFA. It owns Madden. There's two very, very hot things. Need for speed sort of battlefield, which is sort, you know, sort of big. I think it would be one of those things where much like the beats acquisition where there's some additional profit from the headphone business or the game business, but really the technology underlying it and the, and the team

Alex Lindsay (00:22:24):
That's. Yeah. And, and I's really, I mean, Apple makes our in, in the, in the, a lot of the stuff that's come out, we're clear that Apple makes a huge amount of money on games, you know? So yeah. So it's, you know, may not have an Xbox, but the iPhone is still a, if

Leo Laporte (00:22:41):
There's a critique of Macintosh that is there. No, you know, it's not a gaming platform.

Alex Lindsay (00:22:45):
Well, but the iPhone is. And so that, you know, and so I I'm

Leo Laporte (00:22:47):
Saying if you bought EA you could insist that all of these and by the way, sports are very family friendly. They're not shooters. So you could insist that Madden comes out on a Mac app, but can you

Rene Ritchie (00:22:58):
Just imagine, like they flip the button on iPad apps and say, you can run on the Mac. Cause that's all that they're refusing, everyone's refusing to do that. But if they flip that button that says this iPad app could run on the Mac, there'd be a huge amount of games available. Instant.

Leo Laporte (00:23:09):
Yeah. But they're not triple a really big publishers. Yeah. But they're not triple,

Rene Ritchie (00:23:11):
Some of them are really and impact look like there's some really good titles on the iPad.

Alex Lindsay (00:23:17):
The, the, but I think that even, yeah, moving a bunch of the EA stuff to, to there also, there's just not that many game companies, if you decide games are important, it's very expensive to build your own studio. That's right. There's not that many. There's EA there's two K you know, amp, they're going fast. The, you know, there, there's not gonna be, there's like five, you know, four or five left that are of any close size to EA. So once those

Leo Laporte (00:23:37):
Go and who else

Alex Lindsay (00:23:38):
Is really hard

Leo Laporte (00:23:39):
Disney and Amazon, right? <Laugh> no, no. You know, so it's, I

Andy Ihnatko (00:23:43):
Mean, it, it's such, it's, it's such a, it's such a secure fit for Disney. The idea of saying that now, now they have, they have coordination amongst every single platform that they, that they own. And the ability to simply not contract out a game to an outside company, but simply say, no, no, we have our own game studio. We will. So you will get access. We will be developing this game and content for that game. So that it synchronizes with things we're doing in the comics, things we're doing on the, on TV things we're doing in movies. I, I can, I can't imagine Apple outbidding Disney if they, if they have their sites on, on

Leo Laporte (00:24:16):
Studio, the buyer says that S market cap around 36 billion 

Alex Lindsay (00:24:22):
That's it's Achu change.

Leo Laporte (00:24:24):
Well, it is it's and it's, it's, it's less than a, it's almost, it's a third of what Microsoft paid for activation blizzard blizzard. So in a way it's a deal.

Alex Lindsay (00:24:32):
Yeah. And, and the thing is, is that just what Andy had just talked about with Disney would definitely work. I mean, if you look, think about there's a lot of the titles that Apples built that could be turned into a game that could have AR and VR potential. It could have a lot of those other bits of pieces cuz the game company's gonna bring also a lot of understanding of 3d pipelines and so on and so forth that are gonna be useful for AR as well. And

Leo Laporte (00:24:50):
Here's another one. What about the car? Do don't you want entertainment in the car? Well

Alex Lindsay (00:24:56):
I, I don't know. I think the plane playing some kind of racing game in the car, what might be dangerous? That's all I'm saying.

Leo Laporte (00:25:01):
No, no. You're like trying to you think Apple and Apple car is gonna have a steering wheel? No, I don't think so. No, no,

Andy Ihnatko (00:25:07):
I don't think so. Yeah. Also I'm, I'm starting to, I, I'm starting to wonder if Apple is as good at integration as we've often given them credit for or as maybe they used to be that if they could actually pull that off where they have a division that will get access to something as secret as as the, as the as the car division as other experimental and research sort of things that they're looking at as opposed to those really thick and institutional walls that they keep between every single product that they don't want anybody else to know about. So I'm, I don't know.

Leo Laporte (00:25:44):
Wouldn't it be interesting <laugh> if you bought a, a, a autonomous vehicle, you could not drive and inside it, you had a steering wheel on pedals to play need for speed.

Alex Lindsay (00:25:56):
Wouldn't it be? Well wouldn't you exactly have

Leo Laporte (00:25:58):
One of those. So

Alex Lindsay (00:26:00):
You could have a box in the back. It's a full motion system. You, you put it all in there and you're like, you're like going around and

Andy Ihnatko (00:26:06):
No, no, no. See this, see, this is an opportunity cuz you know, you know that the that there's a there's a federal mandate now to have to certify a technology, to make sure that a car cannot be operated by someone who is impaired or drunk. So what if we just have look until you get until you get, get to like level eight of, of Teris you cannot start this car.

Alex Lindsay (00:26:28):
There you go.

Leo Laporte (00:26:29):
Elon's already has, Elon's put games in his car. My Ford Mustang has some actually decent games in it. I, I honestly think if you're in the Apple car division you're we know this, we've talked about it before. You're thinking about, well, what are people gonna be doing inside these living rooms on this? It's a living room. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a little break. We got lots more to no we don't. We got nothing more

Andy Ihnatko (00:26:49):
Full self gaming. Leo. Think about it. Full

Leo Laporte (00:26:51):
Self, full self gaming, gaming the car. You know what? I'd prefer to drive a car and let the car play the game. How about that? What, what do we think? Yes. Yes. How about a nice game of chess? Yes <laugh> do, do you, do you really,

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:02):
Do you really wanna try to like play a game with your two kids in the back seat? They would

Leo Laporte (00:27:06):
Smoke you. Oh, I know. At

Andy Ihnatko (00:27:07):
Least, least now you have the excuse of, oh, like I boy, I would whip your ass in that game. But unfortunately how daddy's driving right now?

Leo Laporte (00:27:12):
Daddy's playing Simpsons tapped out up front Falcon punch. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Our show today brought to you by it. Prot V we talk all the time about how a great at what a great place it pro TV is for anybody looking to get into the it world. But what if you're already in the it world? What if you're already got a job? Well, you, you also have to Polish your skills, acquire new skills. Re-Certify now as long as you're doing a thought experiment, what if you have an it team? What if your business has a team of it professionals don't you want them to be doing the same thing, getting new skills, a re crediting re-certifying well, give them it pro TV. They have a team platform. You will love more importantly, your employees will use. And that's, that's really kind of half the game.

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So you have insight into what's going on with your team and knowing that you're getting the ROI for it. Pro TV for individuals getting into the it business, staying in the it business for teams, it pro TV is the development platform. You need to level up your skills while enjoying the journey for teams of two to 1000, but volume discounts started five seats. In fact, 30% discount. When you say MacBreak 30 to your it pro account executive, there's the team. These are such great people. I love everybody over there. It pro.tv/MacBreak , whisper MacBreak 30 to your account executive for 30% off or more on a business plan, business or individual MacBreak 30 at it. Pro.tv/MacBreak . We think of so much, u,r supporting MacBreak . They've been big, you know, supporters since they started and we've been big supporters of theirs. So it's fair. Losing Ian Goodfellow to deep mind <laugh> is the dumbest thing Apple's ever done. I don't know if that's that's pretty high bar Tristan green writing in the next web. He, he likens losing Ian Goodfellow Goodfellow to letting Tom Brady or Michael Jordan, leave your team over a disagreement over how the towels should be folded. Uh,od fellow left. You

Rene Ritchie (00:31:20):
Have to read his article, right? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:31:22):
<Laugh> good fellow. Yeah, that was a good right. That got me to read it. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Got us. Yep. He got us. He got us, but he, he makes a good point. Good fellow who is a machine Lang machine learning expert and one of the developers of a technique called G generative something, something adversarial, neural network, adversarial, neural network, hard to say, but a very powerful tool. So he's really one of the leading lights. Can I add

Rene Ritchie (00:31:49):
Something quickly there? Leo? I love the, I love G so much. Like you have to, you think about it. Like you have a Batman neural network and its job is to defend something like face ID, for example. So Batman is there to make sure no one bad gets into your face ID. Like Andy can't break into my face ID and then you have a joker neural network and its whole job is to defeat the Batman network to break in and they go back and forth and the programmers have no idea what they're doing anymore. It's not like code, it's like training pets. And they go back and forth with this Titanic war in virtual reality to, well, not even virtual, like they

Leo Laporte (00:32:16):
Make each other better. They're making better versions. Yeah,

Rene Ritchie (00:32:19):
Yeah, yeah. The ones that are bad get destroyed and the ones that are good

Leo Laporte (00:32:21):
Competition works, they grow. Yeah. Yes. So it's amazing. He, he actually was at Google left Google a few years ago to go to Apple. But now partly, I don't know if it's completely, he did write a note that said, you know, I don't want to go back to work. I like the work from home thing, but I think there may be other other reasons. But the, the point of this article besides the link bitty headline is that it's that there isn't, you know, these people are unique is they're not interchangeable. There are handful of a lot of them really great people. They

Rene Ritchie (00:32:57):
Include his clarification in there cuz he did, he did post a brief statement

Leo Laporte (00:33:00):
Afterwards. It wasn't just about work from home, right?

Rene Ritchie (00:33:02):
Yeah. That was on the list of his

Leo Laporte (00:33:05):
Grievances. Right. Well, but people like that do, I mean he's moved around before. Yeah. You go, you know, you're so valuable that, you know, it's like Tom, it is like Tom Brady, you know other teams are bidding big time for your tensions. So it's a way to, and I think, you know, get, get more money, get better, get a whatever work and stuff.

Alex Lindsay (00:33:27):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think this is gonna be a challenge for any company trying to bring workers back is that the most valuable ones are the ones that have the most leverage, you know, their, you know, there's their, they have a unique talent, they know it. And other people know it and they get to choose where they want. What's how they want this to look. And I think companies that try to press down are gonna lose a lot of talent. I think

Leo Laporte (00:33:47):
It's happening already related. It's happening already.

Rene Ritchie (00:33:48):
They've been working from Tahoe for two years. They're not gonna come back Theo or mountain

Leo Laporte (00:33:52):
Viewer. And in fact, if this may well be the story of, of the last few years of Silicon valley is the rise in power of engineers, you know, who can, who are now starting to dictate their own terms because there's so few and far between and so valuable.

Alex Lindsay (00:34:06):
Yeah. The, the supply of engineers is so low compared to the demand. It's that? And the problem is, is that they com you know, the, and this is why we're seeing grow with Google and we're seeing the playgrounds and everything else is all an attempt to make that pipeline fatter, you know, and get people in earlier and, and faster because you know, colleges are not pumping out students that they need. They're not pumping out the quality or the quantity that is necessary for the industry. And so well,

Leo Laporte (00:34:35):
Even

Alex Lindsay (00:34:35):
If they shouldn't pass

Leo Laporte (00:34:36):
Them cranking, 'em out, <laugh> as fast as they possibly could. This is part of the reason there's a supply charge. Demand is exploding.

Alex Lindsay (00:34:45):
Well, it is. But you know, I think that this is gonna be, I think that this is gonna have a massive impact on education because you know, essentially these companies, because they're so hungry for this, this gets into, you know, they're just, they're bypass. They're gonna bypass all the computer science colleges, you know, they'll still have their little degrees, but there's gonna be a huge number. You're not gonna come outta high school feeling like you need to go to college. You know, there's gonna be programs. They want the

Rene Ritchie (00:35:09):
Delay.

Leo Laporte (00:35:09):
Right, right.

Alex Lindsay (00:35:10):
They just want, they want to, they want to get you in. It's like baseball, you know, baseball, you come outta high school and you're in, let,

Leo Laporte (00:35:15):
Lemme point out in football does not have that same model. They want you to go to college. There is stuff to be learned in college, the basics. I mean, they're, well,

Alex Lindsay (00:35:22):
You're not big enough in football. Like that's so I mean, that's why they do that is, is that you're not, you're not strong. It's not big enough. Yeah. You'll, you'll get, you'll get hurt. You know, enough

Leo Laporte (00:35:30):
Of the sports analogies. I still think there's a valuable your brain. Isn't big enough. You need to getting outta high school. You're not ready to write GA you know, invent G I think you still, the other

Rene Ritchie (00:35:39):
Pressure, like for the really talented ones is that Apple and Google and Facebook have shown that they will buy your startup in a, in a blank. And for a lot of them getting in and getting a salary with limited upward mobility is nowhere, nearly as profitable, enjoyable as making a startup. They literally make startups, sell them to Google, leave, make another startup, selling Google

Alex Lindsay (00:35:56):
Or Apple. Exactly. I know someone

Rene Ritchie (00:35:57):
And they do like three or four times.

Alex Lindsay (00:35:59):
I know that I know someone who sold their comp they've sold three companies to Google, right? By, by being absorbed. They wait two years, they leave, they go start another one. They come. So you'd be

Leo Laporte (00:36:06):
To go to Google at a high school. What's his name?

Alex Lindsay (00:36:09):
Lala and color

Rene Ritchie (00:36:09):
Apple go to a startup

Leo Laporte (00:36:11):
Companies in row, especially with more bun stock prices. And all of the big tech companies, stock prices are. Now the issue is,

Alex Lindsay (00:36:18):
Is it's a lot easier to get funding for your little startup after you worked at Google <laugh>. So, or Apple, you know, like that, you know, having that on your, on your LinkedIn makes it a lot easier to go out and get something.

Leo Laporte (00:36:27):
I don't know what the I, the optimal path is, but I'm sure that if you're a, if you're smart and adept in computer science and you're a college sophomore right now, there's a lot of conversation about, okay, what's what are, what are the steps now I need to do, okay. I need you get

Rene Ritchie (00:36:43):
Your internship. Do a year or two. Then you spin off into a

Leo Laporte (00:36:45):
Start. Do I need a degree? Do I need a CS degree? Where should I get the internship? Where should first figure, what should my start be? I'm sure there's a path. There's probably books there.

Rene Ritchie (00:36:53):
Silicon valley on HBO have figured they gave you a

Leo Laporte (00:36:54):
Roadmap.

Rene Ritchie (00:36:55):
Do is follow that as a whiteboard

Alex Lindsay (00:36:58):
One, again, the path that the path that Apple's taking to be clear is 10 years old. I mean, that's what, that's why playgrounds is. So like, they want you like playing with that stuff early on and, and doing those kinds of things so that, you know, you know, that's when, I mean, when you think about,

Leo Laporte (00:37:11):
I think the value that is though, because I think there's plenty. I mean, there's kids doing it regardless. Right. There's kids learning Python in eighth grade too.

Alex Lindsay (00:37:19):
They're just trying to make it easy though. They're just, the goal is to make it, it's easy to make it as easy as possible. It's

Leo Laporte (00:37:25):
Well, the goal

Alex Lindsay (00:37:26):
Schools

Rene Ritchie (00:37:26):
And curriculums to scale it.

Leo Laporte (00:37:27):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

Rene Ritchie (00:37:29):
Like to have a curriculum for a school

Leo Laporte (00:37:30):
Schools are failing kids right now. So yeah. You know, kids are doing it on their own and I think, but that's always been that way. Right. The best programmers, I don't know. We should, we should interview in Goodfellow, but I bet you, he taught himself right in the first, in the early days.

Alex Lindsay (00:37:45):
Yeah. I mean, I, I think that the, it there's a real power to getting over the hump. Like I got over the hump by someone from uny was teaching in the, in the downstairs of the church that I went to when I was a kid. Right. And I, and I learned basic, and then I taught the, myself the rest of, I got over the hump of understanding how it worked. And then I was off to the races

Leo Laporte (00:38:03):
For the next mom had a bake sale to raise money. So they could buy a terminal for a timeshare yeah. That they put in his school and that's how he got into it. Right, right. So I think it's always been that way. Google is apparently, I don't know why, cuz if you had the choice of working for Apple or Google, I would work for Apple. But because Google is not being so adamant on this return to work policy, it's not just Ian Goodfellow, apparently according to protocol Google is becoming a hub for people leaving leaving Apple, Apple

Rene Ritchie (00:38:38):
Just delayed again. So it's so you wonder like that's yes. Part of it is just being an abundance of caution, but part of it's also like, okay, pause.

Leo Laporte (00:38:45):
Whoops, pause.

Alex Lindsay (00:38:45):
Yeah. I, there was a lot of people, like I have a lot of friends that are connected that are on LinkedIn, that suddenly they were all leaving Apple and then suddenly the pause happened and I was like, somebody who said, we gotta figure this out before we keep pushing, pushing

Leo Laporte (00:38:55):
Down. It's it's really interesting. I mean, I, it's a complicated calculus cuz I mean, of course sure you want the best work environment, but also don't you want the best projects, most interesting projects to work on don't you want the best compensation? There's a lot of factors. It was very interesting in the trip medical book. And I think the number one thing I found interesting was the Apple car project was not from Tim cook or the executives. It was from the engineers who were ready to leave Apple because Tesla was doing more interesting stuff. And they said, if you wanna keep us, you better have a car project. Is that, is that how you read it? Is that how you read it Rene? That's how I read it. It,

Rene Ritchie (00:39:31):
I mean like, so I, I wanna be careful what I say cuz I knew a lot of the people who were involved in it at the time. And, but basically there there's a group of people who wanna invent the next thing. They have very little interest in making the third iPhone, the fourth iPad. And a lot of 'em had already left Apple there's and that's like a flow. They have people leave Apple, they come back they have like sabbaticals. I think if you come back within two years, you don't lose your experience. But when Apple announced this project and I think it was heavily driven by both hi, like Dan Rio and Johnny Ives teams that was new and exciting. And a bunch of those people came back and there was also a bunch of people on the existing teams, like UI kitten, springboard, and all of those who were being lured away by Titan. And you know, their manager were like, it's a flash in the pan. Don't go anywhere. It's much more important to work on the foundation. They're like, I wanna work on a car. You know, and then it's been reset three or four times now, but there's absolutely people who want to be at Apple cause they want change the world and they think the next device is gonna

Leo Laporte (00:40:18):
Do it. Yeah. I mean, if, if I were a AAA programmer, I would pick the project I wanted to work on probably more than anything else. Yeah. You

Rene Ritchie (00:40:25):
Know, and I think that they're, they kind also ruined it. Like they, they made it such a big, I'll just finish with this quickly, but they made, it's such a big deal. Like they basically decided to reinvent everything at Apple, from radar to get rid of the sea, all the sea languages get rid like this was pre swift reinvent, everything. And that was totally beyond scope for what you needed to do to produce a shipping card, anything approaching a decade. And so like unfettered engineering, future thinking you know, Tony stark bravado, isn't always the best either.

Leo Laporte (00:40:51):
Apparently Google is offering free scooters. <Laugh> from aught. It

Rene Ritchie (00:40:57):
Took, they got rid of the total toilet seats.

Leo Laporte (00:40:58):
This is according to the, the verge last month that Google offers employees, free electric scooters to get them back to the office. Seems to me, it's gonna take more than a free scooter, no seats. You know, you gimme some stock options. I could buy my own freaking scooter.

Alex Lindsay (00:41:12):
Well they're giving 'em stock options

Leo Laporte (00:41:12):
As well. That's more important. Yes. And they're even more important perhaps as it is not having to go into the office. I think that's a pretty high priority. I don't want to go back to, you know, there's that idiot, you know, Joe keeps coming over and saying, are you gonna have for lunch? Well, I

Rene Ritchie (00:41:28):
Had a lot of Google people who had to go back to at least two days a week. You know, it's not they're not all

Alex Lindsay (00:41:33):
In the, and it's, I think it's less being in the office and more the drive, like the drive from crew mountain view or Palo wants commute. Many of these just brutal, you know? And it's, and, and again, you're stuck in, I mean, for those living in the south bay, I'm sorry to say this, but it's not a very nice place to live. Like it's not, it's

Leo Laporte (00:41:47):
A very expensive place with no

Alex Lindsay (00:41:49):
Culture. It's expensive. Yeah. And it's flatten and it's not, you know, there's not a lot of, I mean, unless you have eight, you know, that's why every,

Leo Laporte (00:41:56):
That's why Johnny I've lived in San Francisco.

Alex Lindsay (00:41:59):
Right. If you've got four, 5 million to spend on a house, there's a lot of great places in the south bay that are, you know, that I've worked in <laugh>, you know, so they're and they're and they and so you know, those are great. It's very houses. It's very, so if you have less than if you have less than about a million and a half dollars to buy a house in the south bay, it's really gonna be rough. Yeah. Like it's it's and, and that's a crazy, those, those numbers are crazy.

Leo Laporte (00:42:22):
If you, if you don't have to, if you could work from home, home could be anywhere. Or BETOS it

Alex Lindsay (00:42:27):
Doesn't I know people that were working Google in, in Hawaii. Yeah. Like they were like, you know, they finish the, they would, you know they'd finish up all the stuff and then, or they'd, you know, or, or get in the first, in the morning, they're out surfing and they come in and have meetings, you know, it's, it's a good thing.

Leo Laporte (00:42:42):
Somebody wants to fax the radio show in the chair room. Excuse me. There is no facts. <Laugh> the facts is a lie facts. <Laugh> I mean, the, the AR stuff's office is in Boulder and a lot, I think a lot of people escaped to that area. Boulder's beautiful. During the last two years. Yeah. College there, Boulder is a California in Colorado, you know,

Alex Lindsay (00:43:02):
It's right's 27 square. We used to joke. I used to live in Boulder. It's 27 square miles surrounded by reality. Yeah. You know, it's

Leo Laporte (00:43:08):
Yeah. It's amazing. He

Alex Lindsay (00:43:09):
Went to amazing place.

Leo Laporte (00:43:10):
University of Colorado, university of Boulder. Yeah. Which they called UC Boulder because half the people there were from California. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (00:43:18):
A second to get that <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:43:19):
Yeah. University of California at Boulder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Apple has responded to the letter. We talked about last week from the film industry, the open letter to, we talked about this last week. Didn't we, I hope we did week before, I think week before Apple's response to the final cut pro in TV and film open letter, the letter to Tim cook that said Apple should, has to make some changes if they wanna win back the film and TV industry. Did you read the letter, Alex? You're part of this industry. Yeah, I did. Did you find it compelling? I

Alex Lindsay (00:43:54):
Mean, we talked about not really. I mean, I think that it was like, sure, like, yeah, we're gonna have FMC. Fmcs great. They do a lot of good work and they're gonna have some more classes and that's fine. But I still think that it would not be very hard for Apple to say, we're gonna take one scene or we're gonna take different pieces out of the content, all this content that they're paying for and start giving people real, like real behind the scenes, like how to deal with it. It would be the coolest thing that you could the coolest way to learn, how to do this stuff is to get more content that is like how to build this and, and really a breakdown of what that looks like and live streams with those. And, and those things would, if, if Apple got into that program and spent, you know, I don't know, a couple million dollars a year on it, it would make a huge difference. And they're not, I don't think that Apple should try to get Hollywood back. I think they should just arm the peasants with better forks,

Leo Laporte (00:44:38):
Probably pitch Hollywoods are for, you know,

Alex Lindsay (00:44:41):
Actually, you know, like, but I don't think that, I don't think you should try to get the folks that are inside the castle to do anything. I, you just give the people outside the castle, better tools to get inside the castle, you know? And so just, just train everybody outside of that outside of Hollywood to do it way better in final cut and you'll solve the problem through attrition.

Leo Laporte (00:45:00):
They are gonna, as you said launch new training products and Apple authorized certs for pro video with their partner, future media concepts

Alex Lindsay (00:45:09):
Is, and I think that's, I mean, that's, that's cute, but no one cares about those sorts.

Leo Laporte (00:45:12):
Interesting. Yeah. I like your idea. I really do. And plus it has the benefit of E everybody can learn from that. You don't have, you know, even that kid who's, you know, self taught, establishing a panel of industry experts. Oh, for regular consultations starting this summer, didn't have field about bringing in industry experts to design the Mac pro when they did the new Mac pro. Yeah. And

Alex Lindsay (00:45:34):
There's a team workflow team. Yeah. Yeah. They have pro workflows team that does that. So they, the the, so they have people doing that now that are really smart. Like the people that are working on that are, and they come from all over the industry, they're not necessarily Apple people. They're just people who know how to do great production. And, and so they're, they're already working through that. I think that the, the, the main thing that, again, what gets people excited is working on real projects, you know, and giving them real projects has them learn like here are all the things that are, you know, that are there and here's how to put that together and here's conversations. I don't, again, I think that consulting with folks in the industry, they're just gonna tell 'em that you make it more like avid, you know, that's not the answer.

Alex Lindsay (00:46:12):
The answer is, is take the folks that are, that are doing it in final cut that are doing really high level stuff and have them make sure that everybody knows how to work in final cut at a high level, you know? And because most people, even myself included, I think I barely know how to use final code. I've been using it since 0.9 of the first one <laugh> and, and I still feel like, especially with final code 10, I mean, I get, I do a lot of work in it. I cut a lot of things. And then every time I deal with someone who edits every day, all day, I'm kind of amazed. I'm like, you can do what, and you can do this. And, and so, so I think that it's more about teaching everybody what those, the tricks of the trade and how to take full advantage of final cut in motion.

Alex Lindsay (00:46:51):
Motion is the best deal in the century. I mean, $50. I mean, there's so many things that motion does. Just one thing. Like I make countdown clocks in motion. I make lots of countdown clocks for live streams. I make 'em all in motion. I use 3d, I use all kinds of other things for them. If, if I, if you, if motion was a $50 tool, it just made countdown clocks. I pay for it. <Laugh>, you know, but it does, you know, and you know, like, and, and, and if it don't give, and then I did, you know, I did a, I did a, you know, I did a hundred and, you know, I did 120 visual effects shots for a feature film in motion, like just green screen and everything else. And so it's, you know, and, and we did it, and that was in 2008, you know, and we were, you know, looping green screens in real time back then.

Alex Lindsay (00:47:30):
And so, so it's, it's, you know, these, these apps are incredibly powerful and they're just the certification thing's cute, like, but giving people real content and having them dig through it and have them interactively talk to you about it and do workshop, do workshops where people can learn it. I don't care about the pieces of paper. Like when I look at someone, I don't really care what certifications they have. And I don't think any there's nobody. I know that cares about those certifications look like what they need is what people need is real world content and, and a real world expert to tell them how to synthesize that content into a final product.

Leo Laporte (00:48:01):
You know, that's really what happens on YouTube. Isn't it? I mean, yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:48:05):
I mean, right now I sit how I learn everything now is I have a computer open with YouTube on this screen over here. Yep. And I, and I sit there and I work on whether it's cinema 4d or whatever. And I just sit there, search, search, search, search search, and, you know, and find what I'm, what I'm looking for. And I'm, and I just, I'm basically brute force my way through learning applications by having YouTube open and just watching, you know, like watching these little, and then I, you know, of course I complain half the time cuz people have a big preamble and they talk about

Leo Laporte (00:48:31):
It. I know, hit the button and do all of that. I know it takes you 10 minutes to get into a, sorry, YouTubers.

Rene Ritchie (00:48:38):
Just start immediately. <Laugh> I have something about the pro workflows team. Cause I find them fascinating. Like they are people who you would recognize their names. Like almost anyone in our industry would recognize the names of the people who joined that team. And they work inside Apple. And part of their purview is just to hit everything, not just Apple apps, but anything that runs on any Apple gear find problems in the workflow like bottlenecks or inefficiencies. And they'll talk to a ton of people in the industry. Like they'll talk to everybody, who's actually using the tools and then they'll go and harass Apple internally, they'll go harass Adobe. They'll go harass black magic and say, this could be twice as fast, three times as fast. Why are you doing this? Do this instead. And they'll do the same thing with hardware. They report to John Turner. Who's the senior vice president of, of hardware. And they're like, we need the, like the reason it looks like you can push a Mac pro around a, a back studio a lot. It's cuz they wanted to push max pro around a back studio a lot. So it's, it's like a really high end production team, internal to Apple

Alex Lindsay (00:49:28):
It's it's like, it's like this little seal team. Six side of Apple. Yeah. Like a production seal team six. And they're not, they're not, they're not connected to just max either. I don't think they can use anything they want. And then they come back and tell Apple what they, why they use the PC <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:49:42):
So do not mess with Apple if you're making parts for the iPhone, a a pro a producer, B O E where are they in China? 

Rene Ritchie (00:49:55):
Yeah, they're famous for taking Samsung's pro O led process and replicating it. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:50:01):
We're contracting for according to Apple insider 30 million iPhone 14 Oola screens until they are, were alleged to have changed the circuit width of the thin film, transistors, Apple caught and Apple cot in February halted production. And they're now reportedly at risk of losing all the orders for 30 million screens for the iPhone. This doesn't, it resonates with me because after reading trip, nickel's book you story. After story of Johnny, I flying to Foxcon and looking at the aluminum saying, why are there streaks in the Illumina? Oh,

Rene Ritchie (00:50:41):
I know some, I know somebody who was worked at a supplier and had meetings with Apple and they're like, Apples. Apple's like, we want this. And they're like, we could cut your budget by like in half. If we just do this, we don't want that, but we could save you. So are you listening to us? We told you what we want. Can you do it or not? And that's like, they want exactly what they want and they will spend more money. If a part is like a little bit faster, a little bit more environmentally friendly. They, they have UN they have zero patience and unlimited budget for that stuff. But BOE has lost their business like three, four years in a row, cuz like allegedly, they took Samsung's O led process and replicated it in China and tried to offer it at a lower price. But it's just really expensive stuff. It's really hard to do. Right. It's really hard. It's almost impossible to do right at scale, which is why Samsung can charge so much for those displays and why everybody else wants more suppliers of those of those displays. But it sounds like another year another gone, where

Leo Laporte (00:51:28):
Does Apple go? Do they go to Samsung to get the displays

Rene Ritchie (00:51:31):
Samsung and

Leo Laporte (00:51:31):
LG? LG. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:51:34):
LG was gotten better. They used to not be as good, but Google and Apple funneled money into LG to get there. They have stuff to be more competitive.

Leo Laporte (00:51:41):
Yeah. This is this. The source for this is the elect.net, T H E E L

Rene Ritchie (00:51:47):
E. Well, and I should point out that the elect is a trade, like is a trade rag in the most Korean of senses in that they will often the articles. There are often the companies negotiating publicly.

Leo Laporte (00:51:56):
Oh interesting. I

Rene Ritchie (00:51:57):
Always take what they say with a huge

Leo Laporte (00:51:58):
Grant of, because they'll say

Rene Ritchie (00:51:59):
You Samsung is getting this order. BOE is getting that. And a lot of times it's it's their meetings are going on and they're using this as a public way to bargain or to,

Leo Laporte (00:52:07):
At, to

Rene Ritchie (00:52:08):
Pitch

Leo Laporte (00:52:08):
Business. Okay. So take it with a grain of salt. It's a great story though. <Laugh> yes. Could be

Rene Ritchie (00:52:13):
True. Doesn't mean it's not true. It just means they want it out there like Samsung or somebody wants it out there.

Leo Laporte (00:52:17):
You know, when, when they went to China to get the stand for the iMac that curved aluminum foot for the iMac, everybody said, oh, that can't be done. And they finally made a machine to do it. And then Johnny ive looks at it and says, there are streaks in the aluminum <laugh> and they figured out all it's being contaminated by boron. No one else saw the streaks, but Johnny ive saw the streaks and they were able to figure out a way to do it. It was

Rene Ritchie (00:52:43):
That great story. Like him at the airport, sitting with his friend and he goes, I just, I can't. And the friend's like what? What's wrong? He's like, I can't, I can't not see the seams in this bar and his friend looks yes. And it's totally flat. It's perfect. And he goes, it must be freaking terrible to

Leo Laporte (00:52:58):
Horrible. I don't get the feeling. Johnny is a happy person. He walks through life disappointed all the time by African

Rene Ritchie (00:53:07):
Friends like that. Right. Like they'll walk around and go, oh Mistral. Why is that typeface? Mistral? Why is that store sign? And you're like, it's a store sign. Why is it destroying your life? It

Leo Laporte (00:53:15):
Is it's destroying. Do not be a designer. Do not be a, you know, you get used to it. I mean, I, I have to admit that I'm I you're a specul highlight guy. I know, I know. I

Alex Lindsay (00:53:24):
I'm a constant state of upset and, and I, and I've just gotten, you just have to become one with the upset. It's not like it's, you know, you

Leo Laporte (00:53:30):
Talk friends with Alex.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:31):
Well,

Leo Laporte (00:53:32):
Life is I perfect Alex.

Alex Lindsay (00:53:34):
No, but it's, it's, you know, like that, but if you're working at Apple, Apple's the place that, you know, lets your OCD run free. Yeah. You know, like, you know, like you just, you know, and but, but I think that I, I, I, I think that there's a, you just have to get used to, there's just certain personalities. I, I fit into that, that I'm just upset about everything all the time. <Laugh> like, it's, you know, to some level, you know, like I'm just like this stinks and this should be longer and this should be this way. And this, you know, and you know this, I

Leo Laporte (00:53:59):
Don't ever wanna watch TV with you. Like audio files, listening to music

Andy Ihnatko (00:54:02):
Or

Alex Lindsay (00:54:02):
People who see drop flame,

Leo Laporte (00:54:03):
Watching, looking graphics.

Alex Lindsay (00:54:05):
No, I'm just, you know, I, I get with resolution to the plot line, to the

Leo Laporte (00:54:09):
Script. I try that to get contaminated by by Alex's point of view. I just try

Alex Lindsay (00:54:12):
To, I, I try to, I've learned to hold it to myself most, most of the time. Cause it ruins, it ruins life for everybody else, like in, in my ter and it's okay. You know, like I, I know what to do with it and where to put it, how to put it in a box. But if I started telling everybody what goes through my head about every piece of object around me, it'd be upsetting

Leo Laporte (00:54:30):
Time out for a mention from of one of our fine sponsors. We shall continue with the never satisfied Alex Lindsay office hours. Dolo. That's a good, that's a good look, Alex. I like it. <Laugh> oh nine oh media. If you want this perfectionist making your stream the best it's ever been, Andy Anaco from w GBH Boston. It's always a pleasure having Andy who has a little bit more of a Sangu approach to life. Sometimes I think a DERs burger might dissatisfy but you don't storm out in a Huff. Oh, he's muted.

Andy Ihnatko (00:55:08):
I have known I, no, I, I haven't

Leo Laporte (00:55:11):
Muted. We muted you. I apologize. That was our fault.

Andy Ihnatko (00:55:14):
That's okay. That's that's, that's usually pro usually a smart thing. But no, I

Leo Laporte (00:55:18):
I've. I've never, Andy. I just want you to know, I don't control it. <Laugh> I have no button. No, no. Again, I, I,

Andy Ihnatko (00:55:24):
I bow down before, before our, our rest rule producers. They absolutely know what they're doing. But no, I don't. I, I, I've never left a diner and a H I haven't had a car for like five or six years, so 

Leo Laporte (00:55:35):
It's hard to Huff when

Andy Ihnatko (00:55:36):
You're walking. I don't, well, I don't, I don't, I don't know if that's the hot new ECAR or

Leo Laporte (00:55:40):
Something like that. The Huff I need Huff

Andy Ihnatko (00:55:42):
There. There's a good one about it. Mile own

Leo Laporte (00:55:43):
Wasn't there, there was a wasn't there old car, a Huff sounds familiar. Actually. <laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (00:55:49):
Huff mobile, the

Leo Laporte (00:55:50):
Huff Huff mobile. Also with us Rene Richie, youtube.com/Rene Richie. If I seem a little jollier today than usual it's because I had such a good night's sleep last night, my beautiful eight sleep pod pro cover sleep is nature's gentle nurse. The ultimate game changer, consistent good sleep can reduce the likelihood of serious health issues decrease the risk of heart disease, lower blood pressure, even reduce the risk of Alzheimer's. And yet sad to say more than 30% of Americans struggle with sleep and temperature is one of the main causes. Yes. Temperature of, of poor sleep. I do not have to fear the heat or the cold because I have the eight sleep pod pro cover. What is it? Well, <laugh>, I'm glad you asked you put it over your bed. They actually make mattresses as well, but we have mattress. We like, so we just got the cover, put it over the mattress.

Leo Laporte (00:56:56):
It does dynamic, cooling and heating with biometric tracking. You, it can go as cool as 55 degrees Fahrenheit as hot as 110 degrees Fahrenheit or anywhere in between. You said it initially the way you feel like you like it. And I, and I think for most people, the idea is, and certainly it works for me. Start a little cozy in the evening plus two or three on the dial. And then as I fall into deeper and deeper sleep, the eight sleep actually supports that by cooling off turns out that's, that is what your body expects to cool off at night. And then I have it set to wake me up in the morning and my, instead of an alarm, I have the eight sleep start to warm up. And I, I, I wake up feeling cozy, comfortable, and well rested. But after you set your initial settings, the eight sleep biometric tracking will monitor your sleep and do what it can to improve it by modifying the temperature.

Leo Laporte (00:57:53):
Now, Lisa has completely different sleep patterns, but the cover will adjust each side of the bed based on your particular biometrics. It also looks at the bedroom temperature. If it's really hot in there, it'll cool you off. In fact, you don't have to fear hot summer nights or chilly winter nights ever again. With eight sleep, eight sleep users fall asleep up to 32% faster, reduce sleep interruptions by 40% and get overall a more restful sleep. 30% more deep sleep means you're just feeling great for the day, your, your physical recovery, your hormone regulation, your mental clarity, incredible show up as your, as your best self with eight sleep. I just I know I can never sleep without it. Now. That's just, you know, it's like, it's a requirement. I love it. Eight I'm a little worried about, you know, travel without what am I gonna do without my eight sleep?

Leo Laporte (00:58:48):
Maybe they, they need to make a affordable eight sleep, go to eight sleep.com/MacBreak . E I G H T S L E E P. This is a really good time because they've got exclusive Memorial day savings through June 6th. So do not wait head on over to eight sleep.com/MacBreak . Cool down this summer with eight sleep shipping in the us, Canada and the UK. And if you're hearing this later after June 6th, just used eight sleep.com/MacBreak and check out the pod pro cover. You'll save $150 a checkout. It was Kevin Rose told me about the eight sleep and then Amy Webb got it. And she said she Kevin's right. And then I got it. We've had it for about six months. Couldn't live without it. Eight sleep.com/MacBreak . Thank you so much. Ufor supporting MacBreak Weekly, ah, top 100 most influential people of 2022, who else

Rene Ritchie (00:59:48):
Survey

Leo Laporte (00:59:49):
Says, survey says, Tim cook, does they didn't give him a number he's just in the, in the list. Yep. But I like it. What I really like is that the little, you know, they always get somebody who knows you to write a little piece about it. Yeah. The little piece about Tim cook is written by lore Powell jobs, Steve Jo's widow, which is really cool. He's on the cover of the time, 100. So I guess he's number one. I'm gonna,

Rene Ritchie (01:00:16):
There's four covers though. So I think Don wanna, they wanna keep us guessing

Leo Laporte (01:00:19):
<Laugh> oh, rats.

Rene Ritchie (01:00:20):
<Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:00:22):
I mean, and you know, these lists are, you know, they're, they are what they are, but I think it's nice. I really think it's great that he, he Des after reading this book, he deserves it. Absolutely. But also I love it that Lori Powell

Rene Ritchie (01:00:36):
Blur is really a steer too. Like she did a great job characterizing what makes him exceptional in this particular time and age?

Leo Laporte (01:00:42):
Apple is Tim Cook's life work. And in this work, Tim displays mastery, she writes, he's demonstrated more range in his leadership than of one of the world's largest companies than any contemporary CEO business wisdom, philosophical wisdom. She talks about the pressure of setting and executing Apple's progression with deep precision taking responsibility for the company's effects on society. Something her husband <laugh> notably did not do although she has done. Absolutely. Yeah. Since his passing, yeah. She's been very active in good works. Tim does it with compassion and discipline. She writes turning to nature to replenish his spirit in the summer. He could be found hiking in our national parks boyed by the majesty of the mountains. Wow. Steve

Rene Ritchie (01:01:32):
Didn't believe in pimping karma. He thought if you did it and told people, then you were doing it for bad reasons. Yeah. Right. That he had to keep all of that to yourself. And Tim believes that you can lead by example.

Leo Laporte (01:01:40):
Well, I think he, I think the employees appreciate it as well as one of the very first things he did when he took over his CEO is to do matching and encourage employees to, to give. And so that really makes a big difference. Tim strives Val least she writes stairs greatly and spends himself in a grand cause in fact, that is, that is another thing I got from the trip. Michael book is that Tim is an absolute workaholic. Nobody can keep up with yeah. Gets up at four in the morning. <Laugh> he? He, he has apparently very few outside interests lives on steamed vegetables and fish

Rene Ritchie (01:02:15):
<Laugh> he's and mountain Dew. He's quite a combo. Oh, well, steam vegetables chicken and mountain Dew,

Leo Laporte (01:02:22):
Mountain Dew. And never a diner. Never a di little bit of little bit of

Andy Ihnatko (01:02:26):
California. Little

Leo Laporte (01:02:27):
Bit of Alabama <laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (01:02:28):
Yeah. Yep. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:02:29):
Definitely war Eagle all the way. So that's cool. Good job. And and well deserved. I think we knew this would happen and happens every year round about this time, the pride watch edition watch bands are out and along with it, a new shot on iPhone pride campaign, which will launch in June. The bands always come with a face as well. Yep. Pride edition sport loop, a color gradient that incorporates the original rainbow colors with those drawn from various pride flags, including light blue, pink, white. That's kind of cool. The there's the let's see. Here's I think that's the is that the the regular and there's Mikey that's the threads. Yeah. So it's more pastel than in previous years. It was kind of a pure rainbow in previous years. It's very pretty.

Andy Ihnatko (01:03:22):
Yeah, this is, this is, that's a good example of the stuff that we were just talking about that I it's, I have it's, it's become like sort of a tradition, even when I stop wearing an Apple watch that I, I switched the band to my fit of my fitness band to a pride style band, because I just like the idea of basically flying those colors yeah. In support. And it, it, it, it, it did, like, I think they're the first to the first one to really, really support that kind of idea like for, for fitness watch is that now you can't buy a fitness watch that does not have some sort of a rainbow or a, or a pride band available for it. And this is, this is how, how suddenly sub subtly Apple interweaves its values on its morals into how they operate with daily business.

Leo Laporte (01:04:07):
This is the Nike band, which has Isles. Pastel has a, has a black thread woven in, which is apparently part of Nike's campaign.

Andy Ihnatko (01:04:16):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:04:16):
Very, they're both beautiful, very pretty. Here's the shot on iPhone pride campaign from Harvey milk Plaza in San Francisco to police, to avenue in San Paulo, the shot on pride campaign showcases places of historic in, in significance to the LBT LGBTQ plus movement. That's cool. So those will those those new those new ads when campaigns will be out in June for pride

Rene Ritchie (01:04:46):
Months, this start contrast to Netflix is in the news about the very similar issues today.

Leo Laporte (01:04:50):
Oh yeah. There you go. Ricky's JVE good. It's all Ricky. Well, but you know, I think part of Ricky's act is to be hated by somebody.

Andy Ihnatko (01:04:59):
No. Well, part, part of his act is to be absolutely smugged insufferable. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:05:03):
That's another way to put it. Yeah, no,

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:05):
It's just what ano what annoys me is that he heads off any possible criticism by saying no, no, but anybody who criticize they're offended by any joke is just an idiot. So if you hear anybody like criticize me for whatever I say in a standup back, it's not because it wasn't funny. It's not because this is the wrong time to make a joke like that. It's not because it promotes people. You're basically promoting an ethos that lawmakers are now using to persecute LGBTQ plus people. No, it's because you're small minded and not as clever as I am. Yeah. But that's

Leo Laporte (01:05:37):
Like, we have, it's always the comics defense, isn't it, it's just a joke.

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:40):
Only the only the

Leo Laporte (01:05:41):
Hex until they get hit

Andy Ihnatko (01:05:42):
Only the hex

Leo Laporte (01:05:43):
Prehistoric planet. I missed it last night. Was it good? I missed it. It's so much fun. Ah,

Alex Lindsay (01:05:49):
It's so much fun. So it's

Leo Laporte (01:05:50):
All this week. There's five episodes. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, Friday, I presume I can go back and watch last night's I mean, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:05:58):
Okay. It's all out. One time swimming was all

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:00):
Over the social.

Andy Ihnatko (01:06:02):
It was so beautifully done. I've I've there is this, isn't the first documentary style thing where we're gonna do, we're gonna be including CGI in such a way that it'll feel as though it's, it's been filmed and yeah, it's really great graphics and really helps to sell the point. They're trying to make about, about these creatures, but this is the first one where my brain bought it. Like immediately. It's like, no, they maybe part of it was having gotten Burr's voice over it. Oh God. The user interface of, of the master, but still it's it was used not as a stunt, not as a, Hey look how clever we are with seat with with digital graphics. But like no, here is a way that we can tell these stories and ways that we haven't been able to do before. And so perfectly done. What, what a, what a jewel and an Apple TV's content CRO

Leo Laporte (01:06:48):
First episode coasts. I would do my my Attenborough, but I <laugh> probably shouldn't but it sure. Exit doesn't it, a pregnant OSA is in distress and her young calf can sense it. And she travels waters that are home to the ocean's deadliest predators.

Alex Lindsay (01:07:07):
You know, I, I just think that there's such a huge opportunity to, to visualize so many things, you know, and I, yeah, I will say that my favorite, my favorite things in Apple TV are the nonfiction like, so I know that there's a lot of great series. I, I haven't been able to get really into any of them, but, but the the, the mark Ronson, you know, one on music the, the tiny world of this, these are the things that keep having me keep coming back. And, and what's great about that is Apple is picking up these verticals while they're looking for these big, you know, kind of narrative of things that they are digging in and doing, just throwing, you know, just take, take things that other people have done and then throw all the money into it. <Laugh>, you know, and just make it amazing. And, and so the thing that keeps me hooked to Apple, I probably drop Apple TV if, if it wasn't for the nonfictional stuff you know, I don't find any of the other stuff.

Leo Laporte (01:07:54):
Well, very interesting. Well, because they doll it out just enough to keep you Subscribed no fools. They tonight will be deserts. I mean, I'm not gonna miss dread knots fighting amongst each other. So the idea, if you, if you don't know yet is it's a nature nature series, but it's featuring prehistoric creatures, dinosaurs. Yeah. And it's such an amazing way that you think it's real.

Alex Lindsay (01:08:21):
Yeah. Yeah. I would say, I would say that the best stuff, the best stuff is in the trailer. The, oh, from a visual effects perspective. I, I will say that it is yeah. Tell us it's exceptional. It's exceptional CG. Not in my eyes, not photoreal so, so, you know, there's parts of it. There's hint of it that I think gets right.

Leo Laporte (01:08:38):
I, I perfectionist Alex Lindsay coming

Alex Lindsay (01:08:40):
In. Yeah. So, so I think that it's, it is, it is a, he made the nerve spaceship, so it's an exceptional, exceptional CG. But you can

Leo Laporte (01:08:48):
Kind of tell in CG,

Alex Lindsay (01:08:50):
But you can, you know, it just has that it's, it's the next, the, the next two, 3% to make it look,

Leo Laporte (01:08:56):
You can kind of tell,

Alex Lindsay (01:08:57):
Right. The next two or 3% to make that photoreal is, is a, is a Delta of like a hundred million. Yeah. You know, like, you know, like it's, it's like

Leo Laporte (01:09:04):
You just, or wait five years. Oh, God,

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:06):
<Laugh>, don't say that word,

Rene Ritchie (01:09:08):
But it's no, no. It's like, because like, it's just not real. Like you can't make, I'm never gonna accept a giant green person. It's just never gonna

Alex Lindsay (01:09:15):
Register frame. Therefore, I would say cartoon, there are shots of the T-Rex that I think that get, get there, you know, it's like, it, it's definitely like, there's, there's some shots that I felt went over and just was like, wow, that's, I'm just looking at it. And then, and a lot of it has to do with you know, fine detail. And specul highlight you spec. We were talking about that earlier, but like little, you know, there's a little detail across the surface that sometimes is missing on some of these. Yeah. And it's a really hard detail to add in there.

Leo Laporte (01:09:42):
Is, is

Alex Lindsay (01:09:42):
It a question of

Leo Laporte (01:09:43):
Time or technology?

Alex Lindsay (01:09:46):
I think it's a little bit of time and, and you know, it's just, I think it's time. It's just a lot of people's time. You need you to get, to take it to that.

Leo Laporte (01:09:53):
In other words, we have the technology to do it better, but it would just take more time to do that.

Alex Lindsay (01:09:57):
Colonial

Rene Ritchie (01:09:58):
Resource is really expensively.

Leo Laporte (01:09:59):
I, yeah, I know. Right.

Alex Lindsay (01:10:00):
But I'll but I, I

Andy Ihnatko (01:10:02):
Would,

Alex Lindsay (01:10:02):
I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Andy Ihnatko (01:10:04):
I, I, I would, I would put it this way. That for me, the reality of it, wasn't so much picking out the, the, the light effects and, and the rendering Alex is much, much better eyes than, than I do for, for that sort of thing. For me, it's the idea that they, they, they made the same SIM, they made the same simple, fundamental choice at the outset that is essential to great effects and great graphics, which is if we, if there were a person with a camera filming this, how would they shoot that? How would they get that shot? How would they move the camera? Where would they want to be in re in relation to where the natural source of light is? How fast could they move that camera? Like what would be able to catch? What would they, what would they be able to miss?

Andy Ihnatko (01:10:45):
And, and the idea that all these things, they have weight, they have physics, they have, they have momentum. That's what really sells it to me. My, my problem with a lot of with a lot of like Hollywood blockbuster graphics is that at some point you can tell where they went from, like the live action with whatever graphic overlay to now you're looking at the full CG version of this, because suddenly like they're suddenly this, this like 800 pound behemoth is filled with helium suddenly. <Laugh>, I mean, suddenly the, instead a being a camera operator, who's, who's filming this fight from the, from the street corner. It's like a drone, the sides of, of like, of, of a fly that can basically go into one nostril that out the ear, because a director thought that'd be an exciting shot. So it's not, so it's not just the, the, the, the photorealism of one frame. I love the, the, the, the discipline and restraint they had in deciding no, our reality is that we are shooting with this with a camera crew, a documentary camera crew. It has to look a certain way.

Alex Lindsay (01:11:43):
And I definitely think that that, that, that, that realism in camera shots and in the approach, obviously they, they brought people in that have done a lot of these kind of films and said, this is how we would shoot it. And this is how we're gonna look at it. And this is, you know, this is the, where we put the camera. So I think that those decisions Andy's completely right. And, and again, six hours of this kind of content, that's, you know, three Pixar films, you know, so, I mean, you know, it would be hundreds of millions of dollars to take it to that, to the next, you know level, because there's so many CG object, you know you know, so many CG animals in there to, to manage. So I understand it. I just, you know, it was one of those things that, that I, I probably, this is, I gave you a preview of how I look at the world, but, but the, but I think that, that, that I think that it was, I was I think that when I saw the trailer, I think I was like, oh, this is gonna be like realistic for, you know, and then when I got to it, I was like, that's good.

Alex Lindsay (01:12:32):
And, and I, I really, I mean, I'm really enjoying it. You know, and I, I love prehistoric stuff. I'm, I'm gonna watch every, every I'm gonna watch every one of these and people manage your glasses. Not fully, I just model

Andy Ihnatko (01:12:44):
Have a couple of drinks.

Alex Lindsay (01:12:46):
Yeah. What I say, what, what I would say is that school, you know what, there's a real opportunity. Oh, hopefully Apple will take advantage of this, of making this into, you know, they keep on doing things like this. You know, they could build a curriculum for schools that, that is, here's a bunch of stuff that you can watch about dinosaurs. That's very, as historically accurate as we can be about things that lived hundreds of millions of years ago. Yeah. And, oh, and then here's some U SD Z models of the things that you can look at. And here's a, here's a curriculum that you could use to teach about those things. And so you could, you know, really, you know, add a lot of things that, that are there that they could distribute to schools. And because schools can't, you know, they can't afford to do this. So even, even Pearson can't afford to do what Apple's doing. So, so it, I, I think that it, it, it, there's a real opportunity for Apple to use this as a service back. Discovery has done this for years, you know, of building, you know in school, in class curriculum for a lot of the stuff that they've done. And so I think that Apple could hopefully do a lot of that around some of this content.

Andy Ihnatko (01:13:41):
Do you, do you know what software they used

Alex Lindsay (01:13:44):
My guess is probably a mixture of Maya and Houdini. That's probably the, I mean, those are probably the two big apps that, you know, cuz Maya, Maya's not Houdini does things that nothing else can do, like the ocean spray and, and a lot of the plant life and everything else. And I'm just completely guessing. I have absolutely no idea. Yeah. You know, for a fact Maya is really a a core element, you know, it's, it's the, and then people just build on it. And so it's, and so you say Maya, but it's really all the custom software that was built by whatever visual effects firm built this or did this. And but those are the two biggest apps that would probably used as something at this level. Do they

Leo Laporte (01:14:19):
Use in-house software still a lot, Alex?

Alex Lindsay (01:14:22):
Well, what happens is Maya has become a lot of people's in-house software. What happened was, is that Maya was designed really for the ILM pipeline, which is ILM was like, we don't need you to build every little piece of skin or simulator. What we need you to do is give us a great core that we, that you'll keep on updating <laugh> and then we'll build all the plugins onto it. And so most visual effects firms have kind of built around all of that. And so, so they use Maya as a, you know, a core aspect of it, and then they, but they're then they just customize the, you know, the heck out of it. So it's, you know, it's, at some point it becomes 20 or 30% my own, you know but they don't have to worry about that, but they don't, RenderMan still a thing, you know, but there's a lot of rendering that, that is I mean, yeah, definitely. Renderman still <laugh> in the pipeline in, in different pipelines, but there's a lot of those are the rendering engines. So RenderMan is really a rendering engine. So it's the thing that draws everything out, but it's not doing the animation, it's doing the, it's doing the turning, turning all that into a, into a finished finished frame.

Leo Laporte (01:15:22):
The Wiki P article says the series had been in development by the BBC 10 year for 10 years, Apple ordered the, or, you know, gave him the money and ordered the documentary three years ago. Han Zimer does the score, John FAU as the is the producer, the series uses up to date paleontological research to depict animals of the crita with scientific rigor. In fact the most modern paleontology says that dinosaurs are probably covered with feathers. So you may see a juvenile Tyre SOS Rex with, so my favorite birds are founded is what you're saying. Yes. Paleo zoologist, Darren nice and science illustrator, Gabrielle UETA were consulted for depictions of the prehistoric life. The concept art and creature design created by jellyfish pictures, computer generated imagery developed by the moving picture company. They're the folks who did the lion king and the jungle book, which were, you know, those photorealistic mix of human live action. And so something could came of those two movie. Be great. Yeah. <laugh> yeah, fascinating. I, I was looking, I found this article. I was looking for the budget. What do you think the budget was Alex?

Alex Lindsay (01:16:38):
I, I I'd be surprised if they, if they ended up spending more than a hundred million on it. I mean, I think that it's probably somewhere between 60 and a hundred million,

Leo Laporte (01:16:46):
It's really more time than money and,

Alex Lindsay (01:16:48):
And just rendering time. It's people's time. It's detailed time it's yeah. I mean it's but I think that, you know, I think that I, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't spend, you know, 10 million an episode for it. Yeah. It's a lot of development,

Leo Laporte (01:17:00):
Although, compared to, you know, the next game of Thrones is pretty cheap. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:17:08):
What I heard is

Leo Laporte (01:17:09):
Dragons are hard.

Alex Lindsay (01:17:10):
Yeah. I think, and they didn't, they didn't show the dragons that often, like, and a lot of it was a good, we noticed in's a good reason. I, I think that I, I had heard that the game of Thrones except for the, some of the final ones was like eight to eight to 12 million. Okay. A copy. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:17:25):
Apple is looking to create a new creative class. They've expanded today at Apple creative studios for young creatives, all new creative studio sessions, open to the local community. This is another Apple press release Apple will provide mentors along with 30 nonprofit community partners, books, storytelling, app design, radio, podcasts, photography, film, and TV participants will receive hands on education, training, and feedback. So they're gonna teach people how to podcast, just what we need more

Alex Lindsay (01:17:59):
Podcasters <laugh>, you know, the, the I will say is still the hi. One of the hidden things that Apple does is are those classes at the school, at the at the Apple stores? Yeah. My kids, when they go to LA that's their, what their grandmother takes them to. Yeah. Like a couple a day and they just love them and they learn so much about their, their tools. Here's they're really well

Leo Laporte (01:18:16):
Done. Here's New York city Paris, Milan, Miami, so all over the world, Berlin. So this is that's pretty cool. Yeah. If you're, if you happen to be near one New York will have app design, Miami books of storytelling, podcasts, music, and radio will be taught in Berlin, Nashville, Chicago, and PA Taipei and Milan for art and design. Of course, London, Sydney, Beijing, Tokyo, and Bangkok for photography, film, and TV.

Alex Lindsay (01:18:47):
It's a little too bad that they don't do more virtual <laugh> you given. Yeah, they can, they can have classes of thousands, you know, taking

Leo Laporte (01:18:55):
At least the film one is six weeks. I don't know how long the other ones are, but that's that's, that's six, six free days for your folks for your parents, get, go on, send your kids out there right now. They'll learn something useful. All right. What is a 2 6, 5, 7? The world wants to know as you know, if you're gonna release something with radio frequency, you've gotta go to the FCC new filings from the FCC, according to nine to five macro VLA, mysterious new network adapter from Apple code name a 2 6, 5, 7, that runs iOS 15.5 to gigabit, ethernet ports, Y five at ports, wifi, Bluetooth, and NFC antennas. Plus a USBC port. The accessory features 32 gigs of internal storage. 1.5 gigs of Ram. A second version of the same product has lightning instead of USBC and a gig of Ram. That's the one for north America, cuz the U is not here. Oh, could be. I'm just kidding. But maybe no, that could be no, but yeah. It sounds like it's the, I don't know. What do you think this, this is really weird. What do you think this is?

Rene Ritchie (01:20:07):
Is it the display? Is that the mini L E D version of the display?

Leo Laporte (01:20:10):
It's a network. Adapter has an integral battery. It sounds like iPod touch, but <laugh>, I don't think it's that. I don't know. No

Andy Ihnatko (01:20:23):
Clue. There, there, there was, there was a lot of discussion recently about it's a little bit on this, on this show about how, gosh, I wish Apple would get back into wireless networking. Do

Leo Laporte (01:20:31):
You think that's maybe what this is? Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:20:33):
This has to be plugged into a computer, which doesn't make

Andy Ihnatko (01:20:35):
Any. Yeah, exactly. So that's why.

Leo Laporte (01:20:37):
Yeah. The, the FCC filings show that it was plugged in, it is designed to be plugged in don't

Rene Ritchie (01:20:44):
I don't wanna rain on your parades anymore, Leo, but it also could just be something that Apple technicians use at an Apple store. Oh. A lot of times some of those filings happen. Yeah. So may not a consumer might be,

Leo Laporte (01:20:52):
But may not be Apple product. According to nine to five, Mac has multiple devices registered with the FCC that are intended for internal purposes tools used by technicians to repair iPhone and max. Oh, nevermind. <Laugh>

Rene Ritchie (01:21:04):
No, it could be, it could be something amazing. Could be something good. Laser beam, something exciting. Apple cappuccino, laser

Leo Laporte (01:21:08):
Beam. Oh, wifi enabled GPU.

Rene Ritchie (01:21:11):
You gotta send those Apple stores something, right? Ooh.

Leo Laporte (01:21:14):
Why

Rene Ritchie (01:21:15):
Periods, if you can send them Apple machines.

Andy Ihnatko (01:21:17):
Yeah. A machine that can do retina retina level of detail into the top of your cappuccino for

Leo Laporte (01:21:23):
<Laugh> Apple is, as one would expect looking to find other places to make its devices from the wall street journal, Apple looks to boost production outside China, iPhone maker, tell suppliers that wants to manufacture more in India and Southeast Asia. Yeah, I guess it's just not practical for them to bring manufacturing home.

Andy Ihnatko (01:21:46):
Yeah. Also.

Alex Lindsay (01:21:47):
Yeah, probably not. But a lot

Andy Ihnatko (01:21:48):
Of, I was just gonna say a lot of these markets are actually demanding local manufacturer like India is, is trying to

Leo Laporte (01:21:54):
India and Brazil both required be made locally. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:21:58):
It also gives Apple cover to move out of China. So it's And leverage, you know, like this is yeah, well it it's some leverage, but you know, there, you know, if China does anything towards Taiwan, this gets really complicated really quickly. Yeah. And so a lot of manufacturers are trying to figure out how to diversify because if, if we apply the same, embargo's, you know, the same te you know, things that are happening to Russia, to China, it would definitely affect Apple's ability to produce con you know, so I think that

Leo Laporte (01:22:24):
A lot of, of lockdown right now, the COVID lockdown in Shanghai is holding Apple laptops hostage in quantum makes sense.

Alex Lindsay (01:22:31):
And I think that, but I think that that's their cover is that, is that they have a reason to be able to tell China that it's a long term. You're not able to produce it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we need to, you know, make sure that we can keep on doing our thing. But I think that a lot of folks are pretty concerned about, you know, China's interest in the south, you know, the south sea, south south sea

Leo Laporte (01:22:50):
People wall street journal quotes people in the industry who said many of the reasons Apple has long kept China as its manufacturing hub remain in place a well trained workforce, low costs relative to the us and a deep network of parts suppliers. That's hard to recreate elsewhere that years of effort. They point out's gone. Yeah. With the exception of India, the pool of qualified workers in China exceeds the entire population of many alternative countries in Asia. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:23:16):
Well, and I, but I think that what's, what's stunning is that China has made it worth their while to move. I mean, with both, you know, with not to get 200 apologies, but with both countries, Russia and China, people just wanna do business with them. If they just didn't, if they weren't rattling Saabs and, and bullying their neighbors, you know, people would just keep on working with them. It's the it's, these are kind of unforced errors on those countries because they're basically

Leo Laporte (01:23:38):
It's era, but Putin, it didn't have a lot to lose. I really wonder if China will push Taiwan or the disputed islands with Japan and so forth, because

Alex Lindsay (01:23:49):
They're doing a

Leo Laporte (01:23:50):
Lot of, this is part of their economy. I know they're making noise, but I, I, you know, but that noise they're going up to the edge, but I don't know if they're

Alex Lindsay (01:23:56):
Right. The noise is creating decisions though, that like, that's the problem is if you're not gonna do it, stop making the noise because they're, they're making noise, that's causing a lot of companies to make decisions. Yeah. You know, that's just, it's a really, and a stunning a stunning you know, example of hubris.

Andy Ihnatko (01:24:13):
Oh, it's, it's a complicated count cause. And, and just a, just the other week Russian state national, a Russian state, nationalized Google's assets inside the company. I mean, this is, this is Google declared.

Leo Laporte (01:24:24):
We have bankruptcy in Russia

Andy Ihnatko (01:24:26):
Because yeah. I mean,

Leo Laporte (01:24:27):
We've got nothing left.

Andy Ihnatko (01:24:29):
Yeah. And when you have, when you have power, that's being, when you have someone who's basically naming themselves president for life and basically is have, it has enough power and enough pull and enough influence and enough names and receipts to basically make sure that, oh yeah, well, there was this law that said that I can't run for, for another term, but I propose that we make that we make, we abolish that in my case, the problem is that then you have someone who is going to be doing increasingly desperately desperate things to hold onto power, because that's all that they can see. And they don't like the idea of what happens to them after they're removed from power. And so this is how, this is how this is, this is how it's, it's, it's easy to imagine any situation like what's going on in China eventually devolving into a Putin situation.

Leo Laporte (01:25:12):
Yeah. Although China, you know, the CPC maybe making the or CCP may be making the calculus that, well, go ahead, try, try to make it outside of China. Let's see. How's well,

Andy Ihnatko (01:25:23):
Also their, their, their, I mean, their, their economy is starting to, is starting to feel a bit of a crash from the real estate crisis real estate break crisis. So this is also, this is also a case where every we've we've had past very, very great and in depth conversations about Apple's relationship with China. But one of the things that's very, very positive is that Apple does have this ability to say that look, here's how much money that you're making from, from our manufacturing. And here's how much money you're making from the halo effect of your manufacturing, being capable of manufacturing stuff to our tolerances. Why would, why, if you did something that made it impossible for us to continue to do business in your country, what, how are you gonna be able to deal with that? Do, would you rather have our business or would you rather have half of our business?

Alex Lindsay (01:26:03):
Well, and, and which is why it would be hard for Apple to move out when there wasn't a COVID situation where they're locking down things and making it hard for Apple to actually produce they'd Apple would be creating more upset, but right now Apple's like, well, we gotta do something because we don't know. Yeah. You know, we have to, you know, so they have kind of a, a cover to keep on moving out of the country because, you know, China's got a lot of problems. I mean, they're, they have a stunning, a stunning birth rate problem that is going to eventually become a falling massive falling birth rate, fallen. Yeah. You know, like too, and, and it's, and it, and it, they can't turn, they can't turn the corner yeah. On that. And so they're, you know, so they're becoming top heavy G population wise, and that's gonna that's that, that is a massive destabilizing account for, for, for them to deal with. And so, you know, it's gonna Apple needs to do something, you know, and diversify, and I think that they are, and I think that it's smart and I think they should keep doing it.

Leo Laporte (01:26:55):
<Laugh>. So what do you think of the story about the woman who dropped her Apple watch on the Disney Epcot ride and claims that subsequently there were $40,000 of fraudulent charges. I

Rene Ritchie (01:27:14):
Don't know how that's

Leo Laporte (01:27:15):
Supposed to work. I don't know how that would happen. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:27:17):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:27:19):
Because it locks and you

Leo Laporte (01:27:20):
Can't lock it without the passcode. Yeah. There's more, there's more to this story. Unless her passcode was 1, 1, 1, 1 it's only four digits. Maybe they, maybe they just accidentally, there's

Rene Ritchie (01:27:29):
No security system in the world that can overcome humans.

Leo Laporte (01:27:32):
Yeah. So what if her password was 1, 1, 1, 1. I mean, I, I would believe this, this woman dropped the watch who was FID fidgeting with her watch was that on the seas with Nemo and friend's attraction, her husband jumped off. She could see it. It had fallen through the, a great, her husband jumped off, tried to fish it outta the great, which of course immediately stopped the ride. And they were, they were escorted out. The watch did not get returned to them, even though she felt like the Disney employees could see it as, as could they, she said she has several credit cards linked to the watch, including an American express card with an unlimited credit line. I bet you, it was. So if it was one 11 and some lucky Disney cast member figured that out, could you put it on type 1, 1, 1, and then buy stuff, but how would you buy 40,000? You'd have to buy a boat, buy Disney. <Laugh> a Disney. A couple or a couple of dinners. Yeah. A couple of dinners at Disney. Yeah. Oh, cool. They got that $6,000 a night. The

Alex Lindsay (01:28:36):
Star war college

Leo Laporte (01:28:37):
Play experience.

Alex Lindsay (01:28:38):
I think it's like, I think that's actually just general tickets for you. Camera six. It's about

Leo Laporte (01:28:43):
40. They

Rene Ritchie (01:28:44):
Rise, rise. Other resistance.

Alex Lindsay (01:28:46):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:28:46):
Exactly. There is no word of what the thief bought, but

Rene Ritchie (01:28:52):
It was, it was an R Ms. Watch too. Leo. It was like a what's 13 or $1,700

Leo Laporte (01:28:56):
Watch. Now I know you guys don't read nine to five Google. Well, maybe you do Andy, cuz you do a show called material all about, you know, that kind of thing. And maybe you do Rene cuz

Rene Ritchie (01:29:04):
They just hired max Wach.

Leo Laporte (01:29:06):
Oh really nice. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:07):
Nice.

Leo Laporte (01:29:09):
Pixel watch will have USB charging cable and shares the same manufacturer as the Apple watch.

Rene Ritchie (01:29:16):
Second part. I don't care. First part is super interesting to me. Yeah. Cause like usually they don't put ports and well, I dunno about all the Android wear watches, but like for swim proofing, a watch ports makes it super

Leo Laporte (01:29:25):
Complicated. Yeah. I mean my my galaxy watch has a puck, just like the Apple watch. Really? Yeah. The on the back, maybe that's what they mean. Taiwan's Compala electronics will manufacture the pixel watch, which they also manufacture the Apple watch.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:43):
Yeah. There's a bunch of controversy because people were, a lot of people were excited that, oh finally we've had faith at, at some point Google would make an actual pixel watch and suddenly where a west would not stink again. But then the later, the later update is that, oh actually it's, it's gonna be using the same CPU as like a 20, 20, I think edition of the, of the Samsung galaxy watch, which may be, which may be a problem, but might not be because maybe they're they'll they'll optimize it. They'll add co-procesor to make it work. It seems to have the same fitness sensors as the, the Fitbit charge five or something that's already on the market. We'll have to, we'll still have to find out it's. I mean it's it's they have such a long way to go. They just a long way to go. Google, Google, go ahead. I'm sorry, Google.

Rene Ritchie (01:30:32):
Oh, sorry. I was gonna say Google is this weird thing. Sometimes this weird thing where if like a product is delayed, they don't, they, they don't feel like they can take the time to refresh it to whatever the like the next year specs are because that'll just delay it further. And if it's not already in a high speed production line, the way like, like Apple watches and iPhones are, are like falling off the treadmill, like all the time, they're just falling off. Yeah. And you've gotta keep 'em updated, but they, these come like, ah, we didn't make this release and it's gonna be out, but it's gonna be older specs. And if we, but if we update, it's gonna be another year out and then those specs will be outdated and they end up falling into almost a year. One trap, they fix it all in year two, but it just, it hurts that initial product so much,

Andy Ihnatko (01:31:07):
You know? And, and the thing is speaking as somebody who's been, I I've got a drawer full of of Android wear watches that I keep buying just to make sure that I have one in the library that can test like modern stuff on. But none of it has made like the daily driver on my wrist sort of thing. I mean, the closest that I've come is just a regular Fitbit charge because I mean, it, it, the battery life is great. It does the basics of what I wanted to do and it's actually being supported and there's no like craft or stupid on top of it. And it's affordable. I, I'm not spending $250 on something that is gonna be probably wiped away when the Eche sketch for where a west gets gets shaken once again, really. But Google's biggest problem, especially compared to, Apple's just, they don't know how to say, look, at some point you gotta make a decision and then keep moving forward. You can't just simply, you can't just keep the, you can't just simply like go back to the start line and start all over again, which is their, their, their go-to for a whole bunch of different projects they do, including me was,

Rene Ritchie (01:32:02):
Yeah, it's this weird thing too, where it's kind of noble, but they seem to feel like they don't deserve to have integration because they also license out this stuff and it's we unfair to OEMs, but they go, they bend over backwards to integrate with the, with the OEMs. They have whole teams of people yeah. Working to help OEMs. And like for a long time, they wouldn't let the pixel phone team really work with the Android team because it was unfair. But meanwhile, the Android team was working with all the other OEMs. So it was unfair to pixel and now it feels like they're not letting them work with Fitbit to the extent that that I wanted Google to do with Fitbit because they bought 'em now. Like, and they're like, but you know, we can't really integrate fully because it wouldn't really be no, please do that.

Alex Lindsay (01:32:36):
I know. But I think that that's their Google's problem is they're just constantly concerned about antitrust. You know, it's a constant problem and they, every time they start to blend those together, they get themselves in trouble. Like that's the, the challenge for them

Andy Ihnatko (01:32:49):
That that's I think I, I think you're right. That's part of the challenge. I think mostly institutionally I do think they have a problem of getting all their ducks in a row. I, I wish, I wish I could say that. Oh no, they're being very, very cautious, but no time and time and time again. If you're lucky, the project that the, the ambitious project that got canceled will result in some basic technologies that will be rolled into the thing that replaces it. But that doesn't change the fact that suddenly you're, you're suddenly have to do Google wallet. When they're two years ago, they're telling you about Google pay and you're now doing Google duo when they used to say, oh no, Google chat. It's, it's kind of embarrassing for a company that's

Rene Ritchie (01:33:22):
So again,

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:23):
Yeah,

Rene Ritchie (01:33:23):
Yeah. The institutional fear of failure is not existent.

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:26):
Right.

Leo Laporte (01:33:28):
If you, I

Rene Ritchie (01:33:29):
Was, I was impressed though that the pixel seven looks like it's gonna actually build on a pixel six because for so many years, yeah. The new pixel felt like an utter repudiation of the one that came before. It's like, no, you were an idiot for buying that one this time. We're gonna do it right? But like for the first time, the pixel seven looks like a linear successor to the pixel six. And there's just so much advantage to updating something year over year. So much learned wisdom and platform like advancement to it. I,

Andy Ihnatko (01:33:50):
I wasn't, I wasn't surprised I I'll I'll end this because I know that we're, we're talking about Google stuff instead of Apple stuff, but I mean, it takes about two or three years to design and ship a brand new phone from the ground up, given how upset they were internally about how the pixel four was developed. I kind of thought that the five would be sort of a stop gap and the six would be whatever form it took would be the first one where they said, no, we're gonna build a new phone from the ground up with 20 20, 20, 21, 21, 20 22 sensibilities. And we're gonna make it stick. We're gonna have an actual strategy. And it's a damn good phone. It's still my daily driver. And I'm, I'm, I don't regret one tiny bit buying it instead of an iPhone last year.

Leo Laporte (01:34:27):
I both, we all know the icon factory they've been around in the Apple space since 1996. Yeah. A great company. One of the founders, one of the three founders passed away this week at the age of 54, after a two year battle with cancer, Corey, B Mary and my memorialized here at the icon factories website. So a long time member of the, of the Apple and Mac community and a great company,

Rene Ritchie (01:34:51):
They changed the Mac and the windows world.

Leo Laporte (01:34:53):
Yeah, they did. I didn't realize there's a hundred over a hundred icons for windows XP. Yeah, they did the icons for paramount star Trek film.

Andy Ihnatko (01:35:03):
Yeah. That, that really is such an art too. Mm. Yeah. I mean, the, they, they they've, their influence is, is deep and wide and they, they really inspired a lot of people to rethink UI, to rethink the, the communi keep the communicative, communicative effect of icons. They really just took the ball that Susan care created and just ran with it.

Leo Laporte (01:35:25):
And they also created, I think the many think the best Twitter app of all time, Twitter. Terrific. Craig thought of it in the shower. Did he really? Wow. That's what he says. Wow. At least you knew their apps would have good icons that's for sure. <Laugh> Rene is great. Ex scope is great. So many of their stuff is so foundational. Yeah. Yeah. Rene is a new one. This is a sketch. A sketch tool. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. Yeah. Oh, I love that. All right. So there you go. I hate to end on a sad note, but there you have it. We will come back with what a legacy, what a legacy. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Their legacy lives on legacy too young. We'll come back with your picks of the week. In a moment, gentleman, I wanna talk to anybody, any company that uses slack and wants to be more secure, we've got a great solution for you called collide.

Leo Laporte (01:36:16):
And I bet you're hearing about it because there's a lot of buzz around collide. Collide came from security practitioners who realized that MDM mobile device management was just not working in their businesses. You know, you'd put MDM on a, on a endpoint, whether it's a laptop or a smartphone and users would get so frustrated that they would throw up their hands and just switch to using their personal devices, without telling anyone which is worse than anything of all. Especially if they bring that laptop, then back into the office infected, there's gotta be a better way. They came up with something, I think a lot better collide. K O L I D E. Instead of locking down a device, gluing the USB ports collide gets your users involved. It teaches them, it, it, it enables them. It makes them feel good about what they're doing, feel good about security.

Leo Laporte (01:37:09):
And when they understand why the security is so important, they do a better job. Collide is you actually set it up. The onboarding process is a collide process. Their first slack message will say, hello, I'm collide. Let's get you started by installing the endpoint agent. It'll explain what collide does. And from there, collide will regularly send employees slack recommendations when their device is in an insecure state, could be simple things like the screen lock, not set up properly. And they, and it's look at the messages on the website, cuz they're, they're really great. They, they make you feel like you're a partner in security and that's kind of what you want. You don't want an adversary inside the company. You've got enough adversaries outside the company. It also will do some pretty sophisticated things. For instance, asking people to secure those two factor backup codes sitting in their downloads folders, plain text it's talking directly to employees educating them about company policies and how to keep their device secure.

Leo Laporte (01:38:14):
Using real examples, not theoretical scenarios. It's it's I think brilliant. And I think you will too. Cross platform endpoint management for teams that use slack Linux, max windows doesn't matter. It puts the end user first. And you know, I know, you know, sometimes you go, I don't want my end users to have control, but if you get them to be on your team and securing it with you, they do a much better job. This is endpoint management that puts the user first really a brilliant idea. Is it collide? K O L I D e.com/MacBreak to learn more. You can get a 14 day trial, put it on, you know, put it on your system,uget, get the messages for yourself. I think you'll really see,uhow different collide is from any other kind of security system. Ufree 14 day trial, no credit card required. K O L I D e.com/MacBreak . You'll also get a good E bag of,ucollide swag after signing it for the trial. I gotta do. I forgot to do that. I gotta get the stickers. U<laugh> that's a way of saying thank you. Cole lied. K O L I D e.com/MacBreak . I love this idea. I really do collide. We thank 'em for their support Rene Richie, your pick of the week, my friend.

Rene Ritchie (01:39:33):
So my pick of the week preface by saying that Reddit has always been at war with mobile browsers. There, it, they just make it so miserable. If you want, if you see a link to reddit.com and you tap on it, it is gonna demand that you download their app. Yep. And you try to go to the website and then it doesn't let you do things. And you ask for the, the desktop version of the site and it makes the text eight feet wide. So you can't get even like one word on a single line. You try to do anything. You try to comment, you scroll, you click through to something that says, no, you need the mobile app to see this. You got like, it is just, it might as well, not even be a website. It is like the anti web, the real dark web, the evil web, something. It, it is terrible, but there is an app called Apollo. Yay. Which makes it a genuinely joyful experience. I live on Apollo. It is so good. The designer love

Leo Laporte (01:40:16):
It. Love it. Me too.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:17):
Love it. Yeah. Christian, the designer is so good Canadian. But he, but other than that, he's fantastic. He puts so much care and consideration to it and he is just released Apollo 1.13, which sounds very incremental, but nothing with Apollo or with Christian is, is incremental. So it's got like a completely new design for notifications. It's got a watch function for subreddit so that you can tell it what sort of things you're looking for. And it'll surface those to you. So you don't have time to go through everything. You can just sort of highlight the things that matter to you the most. And they'll find them for you. It's got trending subed pros. Remind me. So if you wanna go back and see something completely rebuilt notifications, like I said, and I, and of course, because Apollo's got a whole new set of icons, but I, I just, I love it so much because it makes me not hate Reddit on mobile again. Yeah. Forever. Always.

Leo Laporte (01:41:03):
I live in Apollo on my iPad. Many it's it's Nirvana. It's heaven. It's the only way. Yes. just love it. And it's,

Rene Ritchie (01:41:12):
Non-Toxic non it's fabric acid that Reddit would want a toxic experience on mobile because that's where a lot of people cuz like, mobile's great because you have a few seconds, you wanna check a sub Reddit, you wanna check a thread, you wanna do something and it's, it's so frustrating. And then I become like, like obstructionist, right? I don't wanna download their app because they've gotta force it on me. So I'm just not gonna do it. So Reddit is so Apollo it's like Oasis,

Leo Laporte (01:41:32):
Apollo is free. There is an Apollo pro one time option of $5 then Apollo.

Rene Ritchie (01:41:39):
So easy money.

Leo Laporte (01:41:40):
Yeah, I did that too. And then the Apollo ultra, which is a dollar a month, which is an incredible deal, $10 a year. And I think it's worth supporting Christian's work because he, it is easily I've, I've tried, 'em all, it's easily the best Reddit experience out there. And if you live, you tell

Rene Ritchie (01:41:57):
When a developer really cares. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:41:59):
Yeah. And he really does. And you know, what's interesting is how much his users love him. You know? It's like,

Rene Ritchie (01:42:05):
Well, we have deservedly. So

Leo Laporte (01:42:06):
Yeah. It's really interesting to see it's this is one of those apps where people just go, yes, yes, yes. It's yeah, really good Apollo. He's

Rene Ritchie (01:42:13):
Like that's Steve jobs line, like a glass of ice water in hell. Like he's really, he does give me a glass of Reddit ice water in the L of their mobile experience.

Leo Laporte (01:42:21):
Yeah. And I, Reddit is my, now my, you know, my favorite social system outside of our own twi.community. Yes. Forums and twi.social mastered on Apollo is fantastic. And of course our discord for our club members, Andy NACO pick of the week.

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:37):
Yeah. A tip and a pick that actually very much related to what Rene was talking about that I, I love my iPad pro I it's one of my primary devices. The only thing that's really, really annoying is when the simplest thing, I wanna do something on a, in the web browser, but something on that site, like Reddit says, oh, wait a minute. I have an app. Oh, why don't you install my app? I won't let you, oh, oh, you, you need to sign in and validate that you're above 18. Oh, well you can't do that in the web. We gotta do that in the app. And so many sites just don't work well that way. And that's, that's, that's the one stumbling block. And so the weirdest thing is that so I do have safari and Chrome installed in a couple other browsers installed.

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:17):
I primarily use safari and Chrome. The weird thing is though that I use safari every time I want to use Google docs on my iPad because when, if I do it on Chrome Google is smart enough to say, oh no, no, no, you don't want to use it. You don't wanna use Google docs on and the browser you wanna use it. And the here's a promo page where you can download the app and the app isn't Mely as good as the web version of it. And that's what I want. So safari makes it very, very easy to surface, just, just, just through the default settings panel in the, in the settings app just say, give me the, give me the desktop version of everything that you, that you fetch for me. And suddenly every one of these problems is immediately solved you no longer get you get the classic Reddit.

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:59):
You don't get the, the super, super wide stretched version. I don't know why so many apps, so many sites give me like the super stretched version, because of course it's an iPad. It's only been out for 10 years. It must be a phone let's give 'em the, gimme the phone layout with Chrome, the only way around it is to go, go to the incredibly intuitive interface that they have for, for user settings, which is to enter the URL Chrome colon slash slash flags <laugh>. And then they'll give you a list inside the browser of settings and halfway during the middle of it is one where you can flick it to fetch desktop settings, desktop brow, desktop webpages by default. And then when you restart it works the other, so that's, that's tip the, the actual pick is this really cool safari plugin that, that attacks another piece of mobile pain when you're using an iPad, which is Google amp pages.

Andy Ihnatko (01:44:52):
Those are five years, six years ago, seven years ago. Google had this really great idea that gee mobile data is really, really slow. And it's really, really expensive. Let's create this new standard so that if someone is con connecting to your website via mobile device, you can actually create through code that we've developed and then put in through the open source, a sort of slim down version of the page that will load really, really fast. Unfortunately, you know, this is 2022 and I've got a really good, fast connection, and I've got a really good, fast iPad. And I don't want that stripped down version of the page. And I don't want the the extra tracking because the URLs will go through Google to, to, to resolve that page. So there's a really good plugin for safari on iOS called implosion amp, L O S I O N cost two bucks. You install this plugin and suddenly anytime that you do a Google search and beyond unbeknownst to you, you've tapped on a link to what turns out to be an ampage. It will automatically fetch the actual HTPP standard HTML page instead. Nice, simple, effective two bucks, amp implosion and yeah,

Andy Ihnatko (01:45:59):
Mr.

Alex Lindsay (01:46:00):
Alex, Lindsay, your pick of the week, this is one of my best picks in a long time. Just let your people know, oh my God, here's the worst part of this. This

Andy Ihnatko (01:46:09):
Is gonna cost cost. You

Alex Lindsay (01:46:10):
No, it's not that expensive. Even it's, it's not even very expensive. It's a week ago, I didn't even know what this app was, you know, so, so it was, and we I kind of understood it when we scheduled them to come in this morning for, I moved my other pick to next week because this was amazing, like we had. So we had Gabe, Gabe Cohen come in from audio desk, Des audio design desk and what this does, it's insane. It connects to final cut it also, it can, it connects the best to final cut. It also connects to premier and pro tools and all these other things. And what it does is it's for when you're doing audio design. So you have sound effects, you have music, you have, you know, different beats that you want to put in and you, it, it basically supercharges your ability to add all those effects really fast.

Alex Lindsay (01:46:59):
So it, it can it, it has 50,000 effects or whatever, and music clips and so on and so forth. And they're starting to tie into, you know, external services as well. And so what happens is, is that it, it builds its own little interface and you're watching and you say, oh, I'm looking for a swoosh, or I'm looking for footsteps, or I'm looking for this. And it just puts it in there and you can, and you can literally tie it to a keyboard so that you can play it you know, while you're watching. So you can have like a bunch of sword things and be hitting the, if you remember the keys, you could be sitting there like doing the, they, the demo this morning, he was doing a sword fight from crouching crouching tiger. And and they're like, and he is adding all of it in real time, you know?

Alex Lindsay (01:47:38):
And, and and then you have these effects and you can swap through those effects really fast. Like, oh, that's not really the one I'm looking for. Give me another one, gimme another one, gimme another one. And it'll keep on going through that. And, and what it does is it not only puts that those audio in, if you have your, if you have your marker or your cursor where you want that effect to go in, it knows what part of that effect. It has metadata in it. That's where it should hit on the edit point. You know, and this is cuz it's really designed by someone who's actually done this. You know, it was like, this is how you save time. It was, it literally is one of the most amazing extensions for final cut I've ever seen in my entire life. You know? And it, it, it it just the amount of time any of us that have done this have had to add music, had to add you know, sound effects and so on.

Alex Lindsay (01:48:21):
So forth, know that you never get, you never finish. You just run out of time. And this literally makes it a hundred times faster. So it, it, I, I was, all of us were, I mean, literally, almost all of us in the panels this morning were completely just having trouble remembering what we were going to do. The rest of the show. I screwed up, I shoot up my, I screwed up my, my clothes. Like I've never had this problem. Like, so someone's having a great, oh, this is a really great product. And, you know, we've had great other folks on, but we were literally having trouble asking the questions, having trouble. Cause we were thinking about all the things we were gonna do. Just a, a stunning, stunning. And, and I was like, how have they been around for two years? And I didn't know that they, because we'd ask for these very obscure, weird things like, well, can I do this?

Alex Lindsay (01:49:05):
And they're like, oh yeah, yeah, I can do that. You can just, you can just add all these things to it. And, and, you know, I think at some point I was like, how long have you guys been around, goes, how do I not know about this? And so anyway, so that's why I'm, I'm, I'm recommending it. And you should, if you wanna see more about what it did. Cause I think that their website is a little I, I, I couldn't really get what it did looking at their website. But you should watch the first hour from, or second hour from today Tuesday's office hours because it's, you'll be entertained like it is, it's a great demo of a very cool extension, an app. And so looks like a fully artist dream come true. Yeah. <laugh> oh my goodness.

Alex Lindsay (01:49:45):
And the stuff that they're, they hint to where they're going, where, you know, it's really providing this access for, you know, people to get into a marketplace and everything else it's really stunning and really amazing. I would highly recommend checking out that website and it's 30 bucks, I think it's, you can get it perpetual. I don't know what the perpetual was. The, the most expensive version of this that has absolutely everything I think is like 30 bucks a month. And it goes, you know, down from there and it's it's really cool. So it's one of the coolest things I've seen in quite a while on the Mac.

Leo Laporte (01:50:15):
Neat. Really neat. You want

Rene Ritchie (01:50:17):
Light saber sounds now?

Alex Lindsay (01:50:18):
Yeah, they have 'em they have the light saber sounds. He had all these here's the thing is he had all the, the crouching entire one, they, they had all these sword room and then he goes, and then of course, cool. We can just select all these and just change them to lightsabers and boom. It was lightsabers. That was

Leo Laporte (01:50:32):
Like all of us.

Alex Lindsay (01:50:33):
Wow. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:34):
Yeah. It's wow. It's cool. I just sent a link to to salt Hank, cuz I think he could probably use this in his oh yeah. In his video. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:50:42):
I watch that fight. Like at least once a month, you know, there is no movement without stillness. There is, and he's just like whittling away it or with the sword as he's moving forward is so good.

Alex Lindsay (01:50:50):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:51):
Ad DTP. It's

Alex Lindsay (01:50:54):
Great. You won a great URL.

Leo Laporte (01:50:55):
Yeah. <Laugh> great. Easy URL, a DD dot P for audio design desk. And if you wanna watch this conversation go to office hours.global. That's where Alex Lindsay lives. I mean really quite literally day in, day out all sorts of subjects, mostly about production, but other things too, including cooking. And it's a zoom meeting that is always open, but the mornings are when you have your special events and so forth. Yeah. And it's open to all office hours.global. If you wanna know more and if you wanna hire Alex, absolutely. You must go to zero nine, zero.media where he is waiting for your check. <Laugh> doesn't matter what it's for. Just write it. Now, give him a blank check. I'm telling you it's worth it.

Andy Ihnatko (01:51:52):
So suffice to say that next week we will have about every third minute is going to be unnecessary sound effects that we're just putting for our microphones. Cause we're playing business. Really cool.

Alex Lindsay (01:52:03):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:52:09):
And you not going, are you gonna be on GBH in Boston with your a PPP design desk ready to go?

Andy Ihnatko (01:52:15):
<Laugh> I am off again this week because there was a we're on tape because there was unfortunately a positive COVID diagnosis, one the host. And so they're going on. And so they're going on tape for the rest of the week. Oh but I'm, I'll be on next week. My, my usual slot but actually one day earlier Thursday at 12:50 PM as usual go to WGBH news.org, listen to it. Live or later, listen to anything I've done there for the past three years.

Leo Laporte (01:52:40):
Nice. Always a pleasure indeed. And Rene Richie is at youtube.com/Rene Richie. What are you working on these days?

Rene Ritchie (01:52:51):
I'm working on a video about WWDC that contains no leaks, no rumors, no speculation, nothing about what could actually be shown at WDC, but just everything about WDC and I'm enjoying Twitter because they're busy. Meaming the new poster art into a power Rangers revival because it looks so similar to that classic

Leo Laporte (01:53:09):
Hysterical. That's funny. Wow. Thank you Rene. Yeah. We have some events coming up in the club. If your club TWI member Stacy's book club is June 16th, it's gonna be termination shock. I'm telling you now, cuz it's a big book you're gonna wanna start right now. Neil Stevenson's latest 9:00 AM Pacific, June 16th and certain Alex Lindsay will be our guest in July for an AMA aunt Pruitt will interview Alex, give you a chance to ask your questions. So if you've always wanted to ask Alex some personal questions, that's the place to go. Club TWI is kind of our special place for people who wanna support what we do here. Seven bucks a month gets you all of our shows, add free, no ads, no tracking. You also get access to the twit plus feed, which is all sorts of stuff that doesn't make it to the podcasts and our fabulous discord, which is a conversation of all kinds of stuff.

Leo Laporte (01:54:10):
It's not just the shows. It's everything geeks are interested in from travel to anime, to data science, to cooking. It's a really fun place to hang. It's my, my favorite social network highly encourage a visit to twit TV slash club TWI. We also have corporate memberships, seven bucks a month. I think it's worth it. Thanks to all of you for being here. We do MacBreak Weekly, Tuesdays 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern 1800 UTC. You can watch or listen live@livedottwit.tv. The chat room is IRC. Do twit.tv. Or of course, if you're in the club, the club TWI discord is very active during live hours. After the fact on demand versions of the show available@twit.tv slash M BW, there's a dedicated YouTube channel. You can watch the videos there. You could. I dunno. What's going on. It's a little teeny weeny YouTube. You can also, you can also subscribe. That's probably the best thing to do that way. You'll get the audio or the video version of the show, your choice the minute it's available and if your podcast platform allows for reviews, please leave us a five star review. Tell the world about MacBreak Weekly. Thank you, Andy. Thank you Rene. Thank you Alex. I hope there's more news next week. <Laugh> we'll see. And if not, they'll be good conversation. I could promise. We

Rene Ritchie (01:55:29):
Did pretty good. Yeah, we did

Leo Laporte (01:55:30):
That, right? Yeah. See you next time. Now get back to work cuz break time

Mikah Sargent (01:55:35):
Over. Is that an iPhone in your hand? Wait a second. Is that an Apple watch on your wrist and do I, do I see an iPad sitting there on the table? Oh my goodness. You are the perfect person to be watching iOS today. The show where Rosemary Orchard and I Mikah Sargent talk, all things iOS TV OS watch OS home pot OS. It's all the OSS that Apple has on offer and we show you how to make the most of those gadgets. Just head to twit TV slash iOS to check it out.