MacBreak Weekly Episode 794 Transcript

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Andy, Rene, and Alex are here. Lots to talk about the rumors about a Apple's AR headset coming in a year. We can talk about that. The NSO group looks like they've compromised. Another iPhone user, at least according to Apple, a fine for apple in Italy. Does anybody care and a new look at the swift playgrounds? Four looks pretty awesome. It's all coming up next on MacBreak Weekly

New Speaker (00:00:28):
Podcasts you love, from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:37):
This is MacBreak Weekly episode 794 recorded Tuesday, November 30th, 2021. Canada loves you back. Macbreak Weekly is brought to you by Userway ensures your website is accessible, ADA compliant and helps your business avoid accessibility-related lawsuits. The perfect way to showcase your brand's commitment to million of people with disabilities. It's not only the right thing to do. It's also the law. Go to for 30% off Userway's AI-powered accessibility solution. And by Melissa, the US postal service process is more than 98,000. Address changes daily is your customer contacted data up to date, try Melissa's APIs in the developer portal. It's easy to log on, sign up and start playing in the API sandbox. 24/7. Get started today with 1000 records, clean for free at And by Wealthfront. To start building your wealth at your first $5,000, managed for free for life. Go to It's time for MacBreak Weekly. The show we cover the latest news from Apple of which there is very little, but there's some it's the year end. Apple has things to say. Youtube.Com/Reneritchie brings us the Rene Ritchie Show. Hello Rene.

Rene Ritchie (00:02:05):
The Rene Ritchie Show by Rene Ritchie, written and directed by Rene Ritchie, produced by Rene Ritchie, starring Rene Ritchie.

Leo Laporte (00:02:09):
It's here! It's all about you. <Laugh> it's easy when you have no collaborators or you must be at some getting close to the point where you'd hire some help. Yeah?

Rene Ritchie (00:02:19):
Well, I was thinking of maybe starting like a second series, just like all on, based on Apple facts where it would be like, the thing is I know exactly in every keynote where the exact moment I need for the video is, and that's that it's just so fast for me to do it. That it's hard to hand that off, but I'm getting closer.

Leo Laporte (00:02:34):
Yeah. Yeah. Also here, Andy Ihnatko, who has zero help even at making his Thanksgiving meal.

Andy Ihnatko (00:02:45):
Many people have said I could use some help or get help is what they've been advising me. So <laugh>, I don't know. I mean, I can, I, I can't imagine anybody else writing part of the Rene Ritchie show. I mean, there's one star in Rene Ritchie production and that's Rene Ritchie. So

Leo Laporte (00:03:00):
It's the star of the Andy Ihnatko Show and also from, which is an ensemble piece. So I can't say the star, but certainly the man, the maitre'd your host

Alex Lindsay (00:03:12):
I like to call it Chief Troublemaker

Leo Laporte (00:03:13):
Chief Troublemaker, Alex Lindsay. Hello, Alex.

Alex Lindsay (00:03:17):
It's good to be here.

Leo Laporte (00:03:20):
Everybody have a good ho you didn't have a holiday. I know Rene. So I'll leave you out, but you guys have a good Thanksgiving holiday.?

Alex Lindsay (00:03:27):
Nice sous vide turkey.

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:29):
Oh my God. Oh yes. I, the whole thing

Alex Lindsay (00:03:32):
Me Andy did too. Yep.

Andy Ihnatko (00:03:34):
Two sous vides.

Leo Laporte (00:03:35):
Now, now I remember you said you're gonna cut it up. Andy, did you cut it up, Alex?

Alex Lindsay (00:03:40):
Yeah, I cut mine up. I, I cut mine up into I fit it into sous vides as well. The last time last year I did it in three, but that was like a 20 pound Turkey. This, when I went to 17 pounds and I found that 17 pound Turkey will fit into two sous vides quite nicely. And so I so I seasoned it, threw it in there and left it there for a couple hours. It's quite good.

Leo Laporte (00:03:57):
Very nice. Nice.

Andy Ihnatko (00:04:00):
I, I just made one big mistake where so I, I had, I had like a, I had enough that, that I put aside some for two sous vides later. So I bagged up two, like, so bag up one for Thanksgiving. Another one for like a second, like second breakfast, like second Thanksgiving on the Saturday. I made the terrible, terrible mistake though. I of, of Googling for, well, let's what, what's the FDA say about actual, like how long can I store like raw Turkey and the refrigerator? And I said, oh, well, no, no one to two days, but two days max. And I'm, I'm literally thinking, what time did I pick this up from the supermarket? Okay. I picked it up at 3:00 PM on Wednesday. Technically I'm like eight to 10 hours past two days now, even if, cause I was doing the searching, like at 2:00 AM, like on, on Saturday morning before I go to bed, I thought, well, what if instead of going to bed, I just like dropped that in the Sovi.

Andy Ihnatko (00:04:50):
So I started cooking and I'm only expired by like eight hours. It can't possibly be like a danger after that. And then unfortunately the the, the idea of the normalization of deviance. Have you ever heard of this concept? Yes. Where it's the sociological concept that says that you do something. If, if someone does something that's wrong, enough times in a row, they, the deviance from normality becomes normalized and they forget that there's a reason why this is, this is deemed wrong. And, and that's the one thing that said, ah, it. So am I, am I, am I going be I, why did I bother to search? Is it safe to eat Turkey? That's been in the fridge for two and a half days. If I did not intend to follow the advice that I didn't want to get all, but the worst part would've been, would've been, if I got sick anyway, for those, for that like two and a half days, I would've been like really, really sick. Cuz there's nothing worse than like Sam salmon. Salmonella. Yeah. I would've been thinking, I don't know. Well any, well any, we, we, we did a search. We actually saw the advice we said that can't possibly true. So you got it from two other sources that all consistently said one to two days. You said, Nope, I guess I'm gonna just make a judgment call. And how did that judgment call work out?

Leo Laporte (00:05:58):
That's that's the worst.

Rene Ritchie (00:05:58):
Did you call the Butterball hotline and did you record it? That's all I need to know.

Leo Laporte (00:06:01):
My former college roommate was a, a epidemiologist and worked in the Oregon state health department. Oh wow. He's tracking down food related disease. He's he had a he's passed away now, Bill Keen. He had a shelf behind him, a museum of all the food. Oh, crayons, all the born diseases that he had tracked down E coli in the salad, things like that. <Laugh> and I went to Thanksgiving with him once not and only once. And he handled the Turkey even after cooking with rubber gloves. I think you can be maybe too aware. You know what I'm saying?

Alex Lindsay (00:06:33):
Well one, it's raw. It's a thing, Andy. I went the other,

Leo Laporte (00:06:36):
But even when it was cooked and then this guy's an expert, he used to sell t-shirts that said, how would you like your eggs? And it was a bunch of, but you don't dry Turkey, parasite eggs on the front and you get <laugh>. So this guy was an expert and he still would not handle a Turkey even fully cooked with his bare hands. So I just, I feel like Turkey's probably are on the side of life, a dance with death, but you know, anything that doesn't kill you? Well, they're descended from dinosaurs. They're not be dangerous as our friend, John that says anything that doesn't try to kill you, steps back and tries again. Right? Yeah. Mutate and tries again. So in reverse, anyway, I went the other way. Nobody died. I'm glad. Everybody's fine.

Alex Lindsay (00:07:13):
I just wanted, I put it in there and I just left it. So I just put all of it in on the first day. And then I, I just let it keep cooking and all it does is get softer. So the next day, the, the only thing that happened the second day or the second evening when I took the rest of the Turkey out was that you can't cut it anymore. You just take your fork and you push it down. And it just,

Leo Laporte (00:07:30):
Yeah. Don't like to overdo poultry in the vie that gets mushy. I thought it

Alex Lindsay (00:07:33):
Was quite nice. You like, I, I made some incredible gravy, which with, from, from the out of the Turkey, out of the Turkey. Yeah, exactly liquefy. And it was, it was so good that, that fixed that all up and it was,

Leo Laporte (00:07:46):
I cook I cook my poultry long, so eat it longer. I mean, shorter and higher temperatures these days. Cause I want to taste like it would taste if it came out of the oven instead of like a mushy mushy bird, but it it's all, you know, it's all what you're into. I, I'm not gonna no judgment.

Alex Lindsay (00:08:03):
We've gotten so used to 148 degrees that it's hard to go back now. Yeah. Like we just like every time, anything more like now regularly cooked chicken. You're like what happened? Yeah. What happened to you, man? Yeah. Yeah. I think that yet. I think you have to have a little bit of texture if you could, if you can like drink it through like a large Bo it's not like

Leo Laporte (00:08:20):
Macchiato, straw. It's not, that's probably too more, but, but for the record, Kenji Lopez has a very good discussion of this topic on his website, on receipts every time, everything.

Alex Lindsay (00:08:31):
Yeah. I just wanna say that I've done. I've done extensive testing there. Well, I've done it once and I can tell you it's two weeks, it'll turn into liquid and by accident, go to Europe two weeks. You weeks

Leo Laporte (00:08:40):
In a steak. Oh Lord. Oh. So

Alex Lindsay (00:08:42):
I took a steak and I put it in and I, and I, it was, it was the first, so vide. Remember the Sovi Supreme that doesn't make any noise at all. And cuz it doesn't circulate the same way anyway, you know? And so what happened was I set it in there and then I went to Europe. I, I had a job, I had a couple jobs in Europe. I came back and I opened, I was, I looked at it and the lights were on. I was like, oh no, <laugh> I opened it up. And it was just a bag. It was a bag of like floating bits inside of liquid. I was like, and then I tried to think, I, I did try to think about what I could do with it. And I was like, I think I'm just gonna throw

Leo Laporte (00:09:10):
It away. Throw it away. Yeah. Yeah. That was

Andy Ihnatko (00:09:13):
That. That might, that might not have been this SOV that might just have been just like bacteria getting the upper hand and breaking down every

Leo Laporte (00:09:20):
Protein in there's we call that decomposition. That may be the next thing one. We'll have a decom cooker. That'll no, I don't. Exactly. Here's Ken's here's Kenji's table just for people interested. Sirius Alex, you like it at 1 48, which is tender and juicy for cold chicken salad. <Laugh> between that very soft and juicy served hot. But this is up to four hours. I'm a more like a one 60 guy. I want traditional juicy ferments, slightly stringy served hot. That's a little hotter. Okay. Yeah. But you know, you get to choose, you get to choose, you get to choose. And he shows he does. He really shows you pictures. He shows you everything and how much fat is left over. He also has. And maybe Andy, you could have used this, the table, the temperature <laugh> pasteurization time for poultry. <Laugh> God, don't just, he only has minutes though. Not days. So I don't know. <Laugh> just,

Andy Ihnatko (00:10:12):
Don't use the word pasteurization because you'll get everything go. You know, a tomato is not a, not a vegetable. It's a fruit like, okay. Technically it would only be past, you could only qualify as pasteurization if blah, blah, blah. Like no, it's like, okay, I'm sorry you caught me what I'm instead of saying pasteurization five syllables and moving on to, and again, making the point, I should have said, well, the FDA has a table of temperature and cooking and, and hold times for that temperature, that will cause that will cause the Delta of pathogens within that, that substance to reduce to below what a level that would cause people to get sick and or die. Of course there is a level of beyond pasteurization of it's like, please just,

Leo Laporte (00:10:53):
And this is why you should never invite a sous VI to Thanksgiving. I'm just saying, just leave him at more, more an epidemiologist for that matter. I'm

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:01):
Just, all I'm saying is that he, a Sue Viter will definitely win like, or, or be in the top percentile for Instagram picks of their Thanksgiving. Turkey. That's a good point.

Leo Laporte (00:11:10):
It's not good

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:11):
Point. Cause what we're, what we're all, what we're always doing is like, it's not just like, it can't just be like the, the light on our phone. We have to have the external light, like on the side that they have, they have to see how glistening moist the meat is. Turkeying light.

Leo Laporte (00:11:24):
That's not dry stringy. Yeah. All right. Enough enough. It's

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:29):
All we have. It's all we have

Leo Laporte (00:11:31):
For, I just wanna let you no, no, I just wanna, I ordered rotisserie chicken from coat St. Luke barbecue with put in just to celebrate with the rest. Good man. Perfect. Exactly what you should be eating. That's very good. I'm glad we had this conversation. That's used up 10 minutes. <Laugh> can we only have another hour to go and we can

Andy Ihnatko (00:11:50):
Mac and cheese. Yeah. Before, before we get off Rene, can I praise you and all of your countrymen for that amazing video that you guys made for Ryan Reynolds on giving the him that, that national award. That is one of the best, greatest things I have seen in 2021. And it made me wanna say, why can't we as Americans be half as cool as the brain trust that made that video

Leo Laporte (00:12:11):
Because that the bear naked ladies are a Canadian award. We have all the advantages. Yeah. <laugh> so, and, and it brought, it brought Ryan to tears as I remember. Oh, it brought cameo. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. <Laugh> 

Andy Ihnatko (00:12:25):
Didn't like, didn't let talk. The shows just how smart the Canadians are.

Leo Laporte (00:12:28):
So shall we watch the, the video, I guess we now we're kind of compelled to are lazy for gentlemen. I'm not gonna show all five minutes, but a tribute said

New Speaker (00:12:40):
Brian Adams was busy. <Laugh> nickel back all. They meant to call Drake, but called me by mistakes. So you're stuck with a song by this jerk.

Leo Laporte (00:12:54):
Who is, who is that? By the way,

Alex Lindsay (00:12:56):
That's the one of the singers for Bare Naked Ladies. That's what I thought you. So Rick nest voice

Leo Laporte (00:13:02):
Also Canadian.

Leo Laporte (00:13:07):
Is he wearing his medal?

Rene Ritchie (00:13:10):
Ryan is, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:13:10):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:13:11):
Governor General's of War.

New Speaker (00:13:17):
Canada loves you back.

Leo Laporte (00:13:21):

Alex Lindsay (00:13:24):
He's playing an, a sentiment. Air goods are on the Ys

Andy Ihnatko (00:13:26):
And he's wearing quality flannel. Oh

Alex Lindsay (00:13:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Waterfall forests playing. They got a horn section,

New Speaker (00:13:37):
Canadian icon.

Leo Laporte (00:13:37):
He is, he's actually tearing up. Oh, there's Shaer another Canadian.

New Speaker (00:13:44):
You're almost as juicy as Bruno Jerusy and much better known in Quebec. Oh, all Canadian Ryans. You've gotta be in our top three. We'll drink American gin on your

Alex Lindsay (00:14:01):
Aviation is his Gin. Of course,

Leo Laporte (00:14:05):
From Macy,

Alex Lindsay (00:14:11):
Some hockey players that are of course very well known in it's Ryan Knight, 49th, P

Leo Laporte (00:14:18):
Hollywood back can's own superhero.

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:26):
All the charities that he supports

Leo Laporte (00:14:28):
Candidate screen. He shot a spotlight on the people who might,

Alex Lindsay (00:14:34):
You know what he deserves. That's great. Yeah. It's just a very sweet video.

Leo Laporte (00:14:41):
It's like, it makes it's

Alex Lindsay (00:14:41):
Very Canadian. It's like to,

Andy Ihnatko (00:14:44):
When I saw the slow, Canada loves you back. I thought, oh, is this their new tourism video? Cause that, that, that works. Oh man, it makes me want to

Leo Laporte (00:14:51):
Go to Canada. Yeah. As soon as they let me in <laugh> oh, you can come in Leo. We're open. Polar bear. No, no grizzly bear white bear. I don't know what Canada. Its polar bear. Wow. From all the Canadians Canadian professional

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:34):
Parks association, food banks, Canada.

Leo Laporte (00:15:36):
All of the, all of actually these are foundations he supports. Right. That's pretty amazing. Wow. And he has let us put land of VIN, tilt on the rock and the man is the man can do no wrong. Yeah. That's pretty cool. All I can. He's splitting wood, splitting wood, apparently with his ex <laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (00:15:51):
Like air guitar.

Leo Laporte (00:15:54):

Alex Lindsay (00:15:55):
I can say is he's playing the game of life pretty well. <Laugh> yeah. Doing a pretty good job. That's all I'm saying. Can this?

Leo Laporte (00:16:06):
Wow. Wow. Okay. Now we've used 14 minutes. We're going, we're doing, we're doing great job. Good. Thank you very much. Good. 14. It was a hell of a good 14 minutes. Yeah. He received Canadian arts award. Yes. The governor General's award. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:16:23):
Apos nothing. Do you know that the great Gatsby went into the public domain? In 2021? We, I, I can't, I can't, I can't remember what the first line is, but you know, let's just read the entire thing

Leo Laporte (00:16:34):

Andy Ihnatko (00:16:36):
While, while we wait, like the, the end, the end of the, the period where all these companies are like yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:16:41):
The great, the great gads feed have to keep reason that I, that I don't read fiction anymore. I

Leo Laporte (00:16:45):
Read you off high school and that was it. Yeah. I

Alex Lindsay (00:16:47):
Was like, I read this and I was like, this is, this is so bad. I'm never gonna read it. Like I never did. I never read another fiction

Leo Laporte (00:16:52):
Book. And that is that is our Philistine. Alex Lindsay. Now let us cover some Apple news. Okay. Da, there was some very big music podcast, awarding and music awarding today. Leo. Yeah. I'm not. Yeah. Apple gave away. It's a 20, 21 best of 21 for music. And for podcasts, Apple celebrates his year's best and most popular podcasts. One is objective. One is subjective. But we we'll go with that. And Joe Rogan is nowhere to be found. Yeah. Spotify land. Yeah. Interesting. Isn't it, it obviously only Apple only knows downloads on its actually it didn't even used to know downloads on its own platform. I guess it would, if you downloaded it with apple podcast or iTunes, they might collect that data. Apple podcast is pleased to recognize a slight change of plans with Maya Shankar from Pushkin industries as the best show of the year. I didn't even know what it was. And anything for Selena with Maria Garcia from w B R and Futura studios as newcomer of the year. Very, very good. Congratulations to me is

Rene Ritchie (00:18:06):
Like one of the things that's like podcasts were very tech oriented in the beginning because there was only techy people who knew what RSS was and now they're mainstream. And there shows like about kniting shows about like kniting specific yarns and a specific suburb of Boston. Well, that's niche that

Leo Laporte (00:18:19):
Little tight bubble, but yeah, that's the niche. And I love that. I love that. That show of the year's not ours anymore. My belong to everybody. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (00:18:27):
That's the ideal. And that's why I really like it when the people who are given these awards, I mean, it does, it doesn't mean anything to somebody who already has a huge audience. It means

Leo Laporte (00:18:37):
Something it generates downloads. For sure. I'm sure all shows downloaded.

Andy Ihnatko (00:18:42):
That's that's what I meant for, for if like, if, if let's say the big, most popular podcast in the world that everybody's heard of and the, the host has been like on, on the, a tonight show once or twice, what, what is gained by giving that person that kind of a spotlight, whereas another podcast that is just as good in so many ways, help that person help that group, like lift them, lift them up by giving them recognition that way it's like, we don't need that. We don't need a way to say, well, I bet that we can get this person to do a video for us. If we, if we honor them and say that, wow, that that podcast that's making you 8.2 million per year in sponsorships alone. I'm I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying that this should this should all be about marketing and all be about promoting podcasts. Aren't getting a big enough audience, but it always makes you good. When you, when these sort of things direct your attention to a podcast or, or app of the year or any one of these categories where I had no idea that this thing exists, but I sampled it. And my God, this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen. Thank you for calling this to my, yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:19:40):
That's good. So this I, by the way, did not bother even to look at this list to see if anybody I know is on it. So <laugh>, I mean, maybe somebody is, let's see, in addition to best show that you're a newcomer or app recognizes a curated collection of shows and episodes that define and reflected 20, 21. Well, I know I'm not on a list that defined and reflected 20, 21. Let's see kids book about the podcast. Oh, I see. It's about other things, but it's a podcast. Anything goes with them at Chamberlain. Good inside with Dr. Becky. I can go on and on. I don't think I will. Let's see anything. Anything you guys recognize Jason free, Jared freed. No somebody else. Okay. episodes of the year. Oh, they even break it down to episodes. So I

Rene Ritchie (00:20:26):
Said to make sure Logan Paul wasn't there and then I was fine.

Leo Laporte (00:20:29):
I can't wait to listen to this. Didn't see that name. Glorious bass students about a chance encounter with Paul Rud at a movie theater that causes a formerly devout Jehovah's witness to rethink her future and embark on a new life. Eh, eh, maybe I'm sorry. I won't snark. I won't snark. No, that's you can start. We have so many minutes to kill you. <Laugh> Apple also published new charts today. Highlighting the most popular new shows, free channels and individual shows and channels with subscriptions that launched this year in the us. This is something I'd like to mention this once in a while. Cause people always say, why are you aren't you guys on the charts anymore? Cuz you have to be new charts are very much about they're acceleration based, right? Yeah. It's like the billboard charts, same reason, you know the Beatles aren't on the number one on the billboard charts. They may be, you know, somebody or whoever prints might be best selling, but it's not new. So it doesn't count. Top new shows. We could do hard things with Glen and Doyle top channels, audio Chuck. Then the New York times, New York times just really be. <Laugh> iHeart gets beat by New York times and the New York times gets beat by audio Chuck. Okay. Then date, line bars. Don't even know what audio Chuck is. I don't know. See I'm telling you this is good for you evidently.

Alex Lindsay (00:21:45):
Yeah. See,

Leo Laporte (00:21:46):
This is good for that top subs. Bad blood. The final chapter with John Carrie Ru number one channels, fresh channels, fresh air, hidden fresh air. I've heard of that. Terry Gross. Yeah. There you go. That number four on the top subscriptions, individual shows and that isn't a new show. So you know, there you go. That's new subscriptions this year, planet money. Also somebody are big media shows. Oh, is big media. Although some not wonder luminary, sword and scale is that like sword and laser? Do they change their name or just somebody copy them? Tenderfoot TV, cue code, Pushkin imperative, Radiotopia realm in the Atlantic. So there you go. Thank you Apple for really helping podcasts by promoting all the underdogs. And then let's do music music too. The third annual music awards. And this will give you, I think some idea of how important these awards are. Thought you were gonna say how hip all of us are, how hip all of us are. <Laugh> let's see. The winners are global artists of the year, the weekend. I'm just gonna not say breakthrough artists of the year, album of the year and song a year all going to Olivia Rodrigo for her amazing song. Driver's license. Okay. She's a Disney product. Isn't she actually I'm pleased to see H E RGAs songwriter of the year. That's good. I gotta,

Alex Lindsay (00:23:06):
I gotta say we, we I've done a little work with, with her and, and, and wow. What a force of nature. Yeah. <Laugh> like, like that, that is how old is she? Holy smokes. Every once in, I don't know, but she's a kid. Wow. Is she talented? She's talented. Disciplined, you know focused like just, she's got that. Like every once in a while you see an artist go by, like I've worked with a lot of artists and every once in a while you see one go by that has everything like all the pieces in one place. And she's definitely one of those.

Leo Laporte (00:23:38):
We should look at the award. You get a Silicon wafer framed a framed Silicon wafer. Is that the biggest M one max chip that they ever I'm wondering? These are, all's obviously fast. These are that ones like a super fast one. Look at all those processors weekend in the M1 maxes. I think they promised the weekend something better, cuz he doesn't seem too

Andy Ihnatko (00:23:58):
Think call, call was gonna offer each one of these, these people like 10 million for their wafer, just in case there's something on their, that an early development edition of like a modem chip or something they could check out. But

Leo Laporte (00:24:08):
Put 'em on that Hawaii junk at Andy. They don't have to give 'em anything else. What are the chances? This is a photoshopped image.

Andy Ihnatko (00:24:17):

Leo Laporte (00:24:17):
Dunno. Okay. They're holding like a blank and they'll figure out the award later. Yeah. They're holding a piece of paper in, in their living room and it's turned into the, I I'd be surprised that they were. Yeah, I think that's probably there. The background may not be well, definitely the background, the background.

Andy Ihnatko (00:24:33):
I think they're holding everything.

Leo Laporte (00:24:34):
You think they're holding it or a piece they send 'em a piece of wood either that, or they're still being held at this facility. <Laugh> those? This is what happened at those Anaco chambers they built to for the home pot. <Laugh> yeah. It's now a rendition site. Black hops artists of the year Africa, whiz kid artists of the year France. So they have, oh my God. I'm not gonna go through all the countries. That's cool. Yeah. It's nice that they give credit to the country. It's nice. Cause a lot of times that gets Reynolds. One trick did not fly all these people into the secret chambers underneath the campus to do the, you have to go. I need to know Brian Reynolds won for Canada. <Laugh> he should win. He should win for Canada. Okay. Here's what it is. Each award features. Apple's custom Silicon wafer suspended between a polished sheet of glass and a machine and ized aluminum body. The result of this multi multi month process before it is sliced into hundreds of individual chips is stunning and distinctive. Please do not. I bet I want you think there's in the contract that says, and you may not slice them up to make your own one might give you may not give this to Intel <laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (00:25:37):
I, I don't know, but I think we know exactly what, when Jon I have left the company who mentioned that while we'll you still be involved in certain specific projects on Apple? I think we just saw one of Johnny OS

Leo Laporte (00:25:46):
Projects. Yeah, it's actually beautiful.

Andy Ihnatko (00:25:48):
I'm I'm surprised this husband sold us the new MacBook. Like no screen, no keyboard, no connectors, but oh my God. The Allin tell, tell me more about the

Leo Laporte (00:25:55):
Bevels it's inevitable, Andy. It has to be just inevitable

Andy Ihnatko (00:25:59):
And courageous. Courageous too.

Leo Laporte (00:26:01):
I note that the podcasters did not get these awards by the way know they didn't

Andy Ihnatko (00:26:05):
Get, they're not, they're not pretty enough to get the photos

Leo Laporte (00:26:09):
Got pictures of the podcasters. They got the buffet table. <Laugh>

Andy Ihnatko (00:26:13):
Remember. Remember when, remember when Drake got like early on in, in the, on Apple music for they, they had to create an award for the first first creator to, to get more than over 1 billion streams on apple music. They basically created a piece of, of artwork framed it then showed up backstage at a Drake concert. I mean, Tim Cook like the entire team to get a picture with him, cuz that was the value of we have, we have to have some sort of a eye grabbing mu number. That's gonna show people exactly how we, how, how popular an artist is on our platform and that the fact that our platform is now big enough that you can actually have a billion views here. There there's a lot of that going on here.

Leo Laporte (00:26:52):
Okay. We've made it through 25 minutes now. That's folks. Excellent. <Laugh> now let do an ad and then we'll come back with actual news. There is real news. Great to have you here. MacBreak Weekly, last episode of November. Can you believe that December is starts tomorrow? Where did it go? Yep. We're wrapping up 20, 21. We hardly knew ye we will do a best of episode at the end of the year, as we always do for MacBreak Weekly and then maybe the first episode of the new year will talk about what's ahead. Cuz I think it's gonna be a very big 20, 23. It's gonna be a busy year or 2022. What, what year is this? It's gonna be a big 20 matter anymore. Don't skip 20 junior wait all the years we can get Leo. Don't skip one. Skip.

Leo Laporte (00:27:35):
Oh yeah. I don't know if it's anything like one and two, three could be really a bummer. All right. Let's talk about our sponsor user Now this is somebody I can really get behind. They are a company that helps other companies make their websites accessible. 60 million Americans with disabilities, have a right, have a to look at your website, to use your website, to buy stuff from you. Why wouldn't you wanna do that? Although it, it actually had to go to the Supreme court. This is mandated by the ADA, the Americans with disabilities act that any public entity has to be accessible. Supreme court ruled that any website that's open to the public is a public entity. Fortunately there are rules w C a G the web content accessibility guidelines that tell you what you need to be to be accessible.

Leo Laporte (00:28:27):
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Leo Laporte (00:29:26):
I is just makes business sense. Millions of people need user way to purchase your products. And when you scale, you need user way, it scales right there with you. Let me give you examples. So we all know, I mean the first obvious one is all tags on images. You don't want an image to be a, just a blank space for somebody using a screen reader. So you put in all tags, that's a lot of work. If you have a lot of images, user ways, AI actually does image recognition on all the images fills in all tags. You can add to it. Of course they, they give you a very easy way to interact with the change, but it gives you, which is better than nothing. It, it does even more. One of the big problems. And I hear this all the time from blind listeners is the nav menus on a lot of sites.

Leo Laporte (00:30:09):
They're just not navigable. It fixes that it ensures all the popups are accessible. It makes your shopping cart accessible. That's something you want, right? Form fill out accessible, fixes, vague link violations, fixes broken links. Make sure all your colors are accessible without changing your colors. But it, it, it can adjust the, the luminance to get it easier to read for screen readers and people with vision problems, user ways, completely platform agnostic, by the way, works everywhere. Wordpress Shopify wicks. It's easy to add user away. AEM site, core SharePoint, even in a hand coded site, it's just a line of JavaScript user way integrates seamlessly, no matter what you're using and it lets your business meet its compliance goals improves the experience for users and potentially keeps you outta court, which you know, I, I don't want to emphasize that cuz you're doing it for the right reasons, but it's something to be aware, aware of. Just listen to Susan Bennett, the voice of Siri, who she's gonna tell you what she thinks of user way. Hi,

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Leo Laporte (00:31:28):
One line of code can make any website fully accessible and ADA compliant with user way. Everyone who visits your site can browse seamlessly, customize it to fit their needs, showcase your brand's commitment to millions of people with disabilities. This is the right thing to do and it's easy. And it's very affordable effect. If you go to user you'll right now, you'll save 30% off user way's AI powered accessibility solution. We spend less, let me put it this way. We spend more on fonts for our website than we do on user way, user way, making the internet accessible for everyone. Visit user Today it's really right, the right thing to do and an easy thing to do. And the good thing to do Apple has alerted a Polish prosecutor that her iPhone has been hacked. At least this is this is the Polish tweet, but here's the text translated state sponsored attackers may be targeting your iPhone.

Leo Laporte (00:32:29):
Apple believes you're being, you do not want to get this from Apple ever from Apple believes you're being targeted by state sponsored attackers who are trying to remotely compromise you with the iPhone associated with your apple ID. These attackers are likely targeting you individually because of who you are or what you do. If your device is compromised by a state sponsored attacker. And it goes on to talk about the potential access they'll have while it's possible. This is false alarm. Please take this warning. Seriously. I be, I get, we see these from Google as well, right?

Alex Lindsay (00:33:03):
This could be, this could really become a Watergate situation for a lot of countries. Yeah. Like Apple is just, what's what they're doing is that mean? Yeah. They're warning people, but they're also publicly shaming the companies that, that they're publicly shaming somebody. Yeah. And I believe it's,

Leo Laporte (00:33:19):
Which means is NSO

Alex Lindsay (00:33:21):
Group, which, but I'm saying everybody who's got NSO licenses, who've been using it the way they shouldn't. It's kind of like someone going, Hey, we're gonna go through your search history now. Yeah. And publish it to Twitter. Yeah. You know? And so, and so the so I think that Apple is this could get pretty ugly for a lot of countries. It won't be for ours cuz we have our own tools to do that. But, but the but well it could be,

Leo Laporte (00:33:41):
I bet you anything. We I wouldn't be surprised at all if we buy exploits, I don't think you might have tools, but those exploits are, are pretty valuable, pretty high tightly held. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe we have our own exploits. I don't. How many, how many exploits do you think there are? We do. That's

Rene Ritchie (00:33:56):
Why we don't license NSO. Like one of the reasons that they do business here is that right. A lot of these five ice countries have plenty

Leo Laporte (00:34:02):
They're on. We don't need to, we don't need your to yeah. So anyway, this is yeah, and this is part, of course, Apple suing the NSO group as we talked about last week because this is, this is the only, I guess, foothold, they have the NSO group in order to infect. These sends you a text message and the text messages to do that as a violation of the terms of services of Apple's messages. So that's where Apple's getting them in terms of service,

Rene Ritchie (00:34:31):
Calling up fake accounts to the dozens to make these messages.

Alex Lindsay (00:34:35):
And again, the discovery for this is gonna be ugly, you know? And, and and so I think that it's it, the thing is Apple's made it clear, especially with these little announcements that I think that what they're really after is they want to know everybody who is involved and who they were connected to. And there's gonna be a whole lot of mud because that does so much damage to NSO. Be beyond doesn't matter whether they win or lose the case. I mean, Apple will win most likely, but it doesn't matter whether they win or lose there, you know? No one's gonna want to, I mean, anybody with any brains is not gonna wanna touch NSO again, because if, if all your dirty laundry of what, who you are following, when you shouldn't all gets put out, you know, in public, it's gonna be, you know, there's gonna be a lot of people that are upset, you know, it's gonna be real problematic.

Leo Laporte (00:35:15):
Did we don't know what the FBI used to heck that San be Bernardino terrorist phone. I just disclosed

Rene Ritchie (00:35:20):
They bought it from somebody's

Leo Laporte (00:35:22):
From celebr, really weird thing, celebrate,

Rene Ritchie (00:35:24):
But I guess NSA wouldn't help NSI NSA refuse to help them. Yeah. So they wouldn't.

Leo Laporte (00:35:28):
Okay. So the NSA, so this is the other problem. I mean this, I mean, we may have tools, but not every they're not equally distributed is that it among the intelligence

Andy Ihnatko (00:35:38):
Community, also some of the United States agencies don't have the legal authority to can't

Leo Laporte (00:35:43):
Do citizens against us citizens, right. Only the FBI, which

Andy Ihnatko (00:35:46):
Is, which is why as I'm sure Alexs going point out you, you ask your friends and your partners and the, and in the group say, hi, foreign state that we, we exchange intelligence with. Could you SROP on our citizens specific and then tell us what you

Leo Laporte (00:35:58):
Found out. The NSA could share the exploit. However, there's nothing against that. Then the FBI would use it against, but then they, they

Alex Lindsay (00:36:04):
Burn the exploit. They're not gonna burn it on. Right. NSA is like, there's NSA probably knew long, long ahead of time. There's nothing in San Bernard Bernardino that we need. And there's no reason for us to give it to them. You know? Like, like, like there's no, like there's all we're gonna do is give up our exploit. And, and that, that the, the, you know, they're not gonna use it on, on one, one person when they're using it on thousands of effectively. <Laugh> like, why, why, why

Andy Ihnatko (00:36:25):
Do that? Yeah. Also in, in principle people, the reason why most government conspiracy theories fall apart is that it presumes that the government is one entity that is all focused, can be focused on one goal as opposed to two different agencies that why on earth would we help this other agency out? We hate those people. We even, even, even if we were ordered to, we're gonna try not to just on principle. And that is like the literal

Leo Laporte (00:36:47):
Truth. Nine to five max says five, at least five Thai activists and researchers have also received this notice from Apple. Yeah. Google does the same thing. I don't know, you know, I mean that's, as they should, as they should.

Andy Ihnatko (00:37:01):
It could, it could be super disruptive though. Cuz this, this particular notice was that the, the if you read through to the actual Polish coverage of this, this, there is reason to believe that it could be her own government that is trying to spy on her. Cuz she's a prosecutor that's been sort of nosing around in areas. And which if her, if her, if the things that she's investigating turn out to be true, they would be very, very efficient for her to, to basically find out what she knows, make sure that we can, they can head off anything that's gonna happen within her prosecutorial purview. And you, you think about how disruptive that can be when you basically are not just it's, it's one thing we you're saying that, oh, by the way, this one country is, was, is doing cyber tax on your, on this other country. It's another thing when it actually reveals, no, there is political infighting such that you are targeting people who are investigating an authority that's supposed to be policing itself. I can't speak for

Leo Laporte (00:37:54):
The very, but I think in most cases, that's exactly how it happens. It was the Thai government look by on Thai activists. It's Bahrain, spying on Bahrain activists. It's almost always your own government because you are a threat,

Andy Ihnatko (00:38:07):
Right? This, this is interest. This is a little bit more interesting because it, it really is someone who already has political authority. It's not someone outside right. Of the political structure. That is kind of interesting. If, if, if, if let's say, if let's say there sitting us president who didn't have any idea that he had any control O limits on his personal authority and used his authority to pursue lots and lots of grudges, and there were proof, there was proof that no, you actually had surveillance direct it against your political enemies to find dirt against them that you could then use to basically negate their ability to challenge you on anything in a, in a more enlightened society. This would be a huge, huge problem. Yeah. Well luckily

Rene Ritchie (00:38:48):
They alienated the intelligence community, so we didn't get to see the full yeah. Whole thing play

Leo Laporte (00:38:52):
Well, and this is, I mean, this is exactly why we talk about it. Why Apple's upset about it, whether they're making, I don't know if Apple's really upset about it, but this, this really threatens all of us

Rene Ritchie (00:39:03):
And Yvonne's language did not sound happy. He's like he, a lot of the Apple executives, again, they're really plain spoken. What they sound like on the stage is exactly what they sound like when you're talk, when you meet them. Like at, you know, I

Leo Laporte (00:39:14):
It's just turn know me to assume there's some sort of government back channel with these companies. And

Rene Ritchie (00:39:19):
No, I've had a chance to talk to a lot of security people at Apple, Google, and Facebook. And one of the things that like Apple does not like Google and Facebook, Google does not like Facebook and the NSA. Like they all have the favorites and they're least favorites. All of them hate the idea of these people getting into their, like with a seething loaded action. They hate

Leo Laporte (00:39:34):
It. Good. It's hope. That's true. I mean, I know I, you know, here's the paranoid in me. They know it's a bad, bad, a bad look to be doing it <laugh>. But at the same time I would imagine that they're approached all the time by, you know, government agents. So obviously they're, they're gonna do whatever they can to look like they're gonna be against it. 

Alex Lindsay (00:39:57):
I think Apple, Apple's drawn a pretty strong line of where Apple's drawn a pretty strong line of we'll let you into the cloud. We just won't let you into the phone. Right. You know? And, and I think that their whole business model is around not, not allowing people into the phone. And so I don't think that they would ever knowingly give it up to the government. Don't be paranoid. Well, I'm just saying that that no, be paranoid entire business model, don't be alone. Paranoid

Rene Ritchie (00:40:17):
Is always be alert, not anxious. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (00:40:19):
It's because you're paranoid. Doesn't mean they're not all out to get you <laugh>,

Andy Ihnatko (00:40:23):
But, but, but Rene, Rene raises a really good point. There is a, there is such a thing as a common enemy that goes from a fundamental dogmatic reaction to what this enemy does to essentially trust if your job is to maintain security, not just the people that are trying to undermine the technical underpinnings of the security of the device and the, and the operating system. It's also the people that are trying to destroy the trust in that security. And that is something that really gets people on a Clint Eastwood, vigilante style <laugh> attack against these, these people Google. And I, I would, I would wager that one of the largest areas of collaboration between Google and Apple is insecurity. Maybe not it's necessarily in an official sense, but these people talk to each other at conferences. They talk to each other, basically through whatever means that that people in this business talk to each other. And they are very, very, very eager in putting the hurt on people who are trying to a security and trust in these platforms. They spend a million lifetimes collab collectively trying to support.

Alex Lindsay (00:41:25):
And one thing that I just wanna make sure we separate is is that we have a you know, there's a lot of rogue actors that are using NSO group to do all of these things. And then there are, there are some that are following actual terrorists and our own government, while we want to be protective of our, of our privacy and security. We have to understand that the people that are going that are trying to do this stuff are doing it under very valid reasons, for very valid reasons where they can, because there is you know, true threats, you know, that, that there, that they are sorting out from terrorist organizations. So we, you know, we don't want to wipe everything over with the same brush because it's, there are people who are using these tools to do horrible things, you know? And so we just have to remember that we give them metadata.

Rene Ritchie (00:42:04):
That's part of it. We just give them the metadata and keep them off the phone too. That's the big deal that apparently Facebook and Google and Apple have all made. It's like, you can't have the data, you know, go crazy with the

Andy Ihnatko (00:42:12):
Metadata. Right. And, and that's, and

Alex Lindsay (00:42:14):
That's all very true, super valuable.

Andy Ihnatko (00:42:16):
That's all very true. But one of the difficulties is that no, no one who wants to roll back security protections on personal devices will ever say, we just want the Abbi. We just want create a situation which nobody can possibly have a secret from the government. They will always say terrorism. They will always say child abuse use. They will always say human trafficking. And these are all valid things that that are facilitated when law enforcement agency have proper legal court authorized access to a device. However, we always have to make at the same time in the same conversation, we have to say, we are not going to put back doors into things. We are not going to essentially establish the right every device. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (00:42:55):
I completely agree with you, you know, like, like, you know, completely agree that that it's important. I'm I'm just

Andy Ihnatko (00:42:59):
Adding the conversation, not correcting you. Yeah, yeah,

Alex Lindsay (00:43:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz because I, I completely agree with that. I just also want to say that we just don't, we don't want to demonize the folks that are doing a pretty hard, pretty we work pretty hard every day to make sure that we can have houses that don't have walls and people with AK 40 sevens on every corner. And I, I work in countries like that. And, and, and so the thing is, is that it's, we, we have it pretty good here and we have it pretty good BEC partially because of those agencies that really went in for valid reasons. And I, but I still think that we should keep the phone as a kind of a sacred place in my opinion, see

Andy Ihnatko (00:43:31):
That there, there, this is what this part of the conversations I have with myself in my head. But oftentimes a lot of the most complicated things come down to just my belief and my personal, my personal opinion of what is fair play. What is not fair play to me, the idea that, well, if Apple has a bug in their system that can be exploited to give people Wonderland access to the phone, it's Apple's responsibility to lock that stuff down and discover it. If company, if people who have a, if governments who have an interest in finding those exploits, find them that's fair game. That's that that's that's okay. I might not have, I might not necessarily prove of how they're using it in every single instance, but you can't there's there's we always have to make sure we make that line between a government insisting that the devices remain week and governments that are simply smart to realize that there's probably a problem here somewhere. Every everything that's based on Linux is based somewhat on at least one piece of open source code. That's being maintained by a single volunteer who, who wrote this code in 1998, and that doesn't have enough time to really, really keep an eye on it. And so we, we bet we bet if we juggle enough doorknobs inside the system, we'll find a way to get in

Leo Laporte (00:44:40):
Google and Apple, both find 10 million euros each by Italy's competition and market authority saying the companies don't provide their users with clear enough information on commercial uses of the data. And that violates Italy's consumer code. The regulator also accuses apple accuses, apple, and Google of deploying aggressive practices to put users, push users, to accept this commercial processing, both apple and Google will up peel. It's not a lot of money 

Andy Ihnatko (00:45:16):
But they wanna demonstrate that they can't just, they don't. If there, if there's a law, they don't necessarily agree with that, restricts their trade. They're gonna on principle, want to SWAT that down and to demonstrate that this is, this is not something that you can possibly enforce go back and fix it, or just back with more

Leo Laporte (00:45:32):
Money. The Italy competition authority, accuses Apple of failing to immediately provide users with clear information on how it uses their information. Commercially, I guess, for ad purposes, when they create an Apple ID or access the digital stores such as the app store, do you think that's fair?

Alex Lindsay (00:45:50):
I, I don't know enough about it. I read through the article and I just couldn't quite, I mean, I was like, I don't understand what they're, what

Leo Laporte (00:45:57):
It's Italy. Yeah. <laugh> if you worked in Italy, you're like, well, should there maybe be when you sign up with, for an Apple account? Oh, and by the way, a disclaimer, we use information. You provide us to sell advertising on the app store cuz they do right.

Rene Ritchie (00:46:13):
Probably it is probably buried in the ULA. Isn't it

Leo Laporte (00:46:15):
Buried in the ULA may not be exactly what the Italian regulators want. Yeah. Fair. Is that fair? I think it's not unfair if they is a, do we all agree? Apple is using that information when they sell ads in the app store. Yes. Yes. Okay. We know that. Are they using the

Alex Lindsay (00:46:32):
Information you're putting in for Apple ID or are they using information from your interaction with the app store? And I don't actually know that, but they're

Leo Laporte (00:46:39):
Using information. They collect around your Apple ID from your activities. Let's put it that way. Once you create an apple ID, you are in effect, setting up an account that they can monitor for your activities. Yes mm-hmm, <affirmative> that's fair.

Rene Ritchie (00:46:52):
One of the reason why I do think like Apple just shouldn't again, it's easier for me to say, cause I love spending Tim Cook's money. It's one of my favorite things, but they just, apple should not be involved in advertising, especially like with the stances that they've taken in regards to how Google and Facebook operate and in terms of privacy and just everything that's getting thrown back in their faces as a result of either people making mistakes about what is first party versus third party, because it is legit confusing. But also because apple is like, they're putting all these ads up in the app store and they're putting ads up in other place like news. There was a, there was a controversy this week because people were upset again that you pay for news plus and they show you ads and the service that you pay for. It's like, it's so little money for apple. And I know that's again, I'm spending it's so little money

Leo Laporte (00:47:31):
Is that's another place where Apple sells ads, right. News plus, right?

Rene Ritchie (00:47:34):
Yeah. News plus the app store. And there's one other place stocks app, I think is the third place. And it's, it's not worth it for like the right. The, the, the, like the parent hypocrisy of it all.

Alex Lindsay (00:47:43):
I, I think the thing that bothers me the most about the news app is that, is that I tell Apple, I don't want see somebody, like, I don't wanna see this news. And then they keep on putting a hole in there. They're going, you could watch this. If you weren't blocking it, <laugh> no like, you know, no. Cause, and I weren't blocking it. I'm like I even wanna know blocking it. I don't wanna know that it exists. You know? Like, like I don't, I don't want this thing in my, at my feed. At least

Leo Laporte (00:48:05):
You could, I'm just like Mike, but I'm just hear Paul threat's complaints about Mike Microsoft news, which is constantly feeding him information. He really doesn't wanna know. He's trying to turn it off. He doesn't care. You know, all of a sudden, you know, there's celebrity interviews and bikini pictures. And he says, I don't want that.

Rene Ritchie (00:48:21):
Remember Steve jobs famously has to D an Apple operating system that was runoff advertising. He never productized it, but there's like a patent, everything that says, like, show an ad, how annoying is it? Turn off the ad for 13 seconds. Like the, the whole, it's just, I'm not gonna say it's UN apple, but it's, it's against, it feels like it runs a foul of the, of the moral stance that they've taken with the regards to privacy.

Leo Laporte (00:48:41):
Yeah. Feels like exactly like that. Like maybe it

Alex Lindsay (00:48:45):
ISS a it's an

Andy Ihnatko (00:48:47):
Unfor terror. That's, that's, that's a great way of putting it up. Oftentimes it's not so much that Apple's doing something that I think is unethical or that even the average person would think is unethical. It's that? Yeah. But you don't get to say that we are pure as the white whitest snow in the, in, in Antarctica and say that, oh, and by the way, we didn't act, we don't actually publicize this, but we're actually doing some of what the things we're complaining other people about. Or we decide that we have established that this is an important principle that we will die on this I for, but we will make an exception for this case, this case and this other case. <Laugh>. So it's always not that it's not, they're being hypos. It's that they're being a large, large company and they messaging really has to be so in italics with that asterisks in it, every time that they're, they make, they try establish a secure,

Rene Ritchie (00:49:33):
Give them the benefit of the doubt. And maybe they got this idea that they can provide. We can be the first ones to provide actual, private advertise. It's still not worth it. Like it's, it's, it's one of those things where it's like, it can be a, a beautiful engineering solution that just comes off entirely the wrong way. When exposed to humans.

Alex Lindsay (00:49:47):
I, I, I always feel like it's, when I, when I see Apple do something like this, you know, where it's, it's normal for everybody else, but you wouldn't expect it from apple. I always feel like that shot from Armageddon where he goes, what's your backup plan. He goes, you, we don't have a backup plan. He's like, you're NASA, man. You, you got got people back at, you know, back there thinking things up and other people backing them up and he goes, this, this is the best you can do. You know? So, so that's the, I think it's the standard that we hold to hold to. Well,

Leo Laporte (00:50:10):
Look, you're and simple. It is hypocrisy <affirmative> and this is why when Apple says, oh no, we protect our users in these other matters. I'm slightly skeptical. So this is why you don't want be a hypocrite because then nobody trusts you in other areas.

Rene Ritchie (00:50:26):
Well, it's, it's like what's the right word for us? Because like, they're, they're like, we're gonna block all third party. Advertis mean, people say, well, you're doing this. And they're like, aha, but this is first party advertising. Yeah. And it's true. They don't block first party advertising on FA

Leo Laporte (00:50:37):
Like they, none of their policies, not abstracting transparency, not private relay, none of the stuff is ever targeted at first party advertising, but ask a person what the difference is like in the real world advertising's advertising, they don't care. And

Rene Ritchie (00:50:49):
In fact, everyone has perfect

Leo Laporte (00:50:50):
Knowledge on their platform. Google, Google's doing the same thing with that little, you know, shell game about third party or the first party here's Apple's by the way, this is the second find in two weeks from Italy, they also find em, as you remember last week over colluding with Amazon Apple said, we believe the authorities view is wrong and will be appealing. The decision apple you see, I think there, this is a really good example of apple not responding to the accusation. Apple has a long standing commitment to the privacy of our users. And we work incredibly hard to design products and features that protect customer data from third parties, we provide indice street, leading transparency and control to all users so they can choose what information to share or not, and how it is used. Can you turn off data collection for Apples advertising?

Rene Ritchie (00:51:38):
Yeah. It's it's in these settings under privacy. And then there's like an ad section.

Leo Laporte (00:51:43):
Okay. So you can say to that's fair. So they do provide control the users to choose what information they share or not. Is that right?

Rene Ritchie (00:51:53):
Yeah. Well, you can just choose not to share it. And then you get the generic ads instead of the ads, based on your, whatever targeted

Leo Laporte (00:52:00):
A really does seem silly for Apple, how much money could they make on those ads and, and how much do they need that money? It seems silly for Apple to do that. Alright. So apple, you think Apple's response is, is reasonable, longstanding commitment to the privacy, our users, we here work incredibly hard to design products and features that protect customer data that isn't really responsive. I do think that it is the second sentence is important. We provide industry leading transparency and control the Italians. Say you're not quite as transparent as we'd like you to be. We'd like you to say this when you sign up,

Rene Ritchie (00:52:34):
I'd be curious. I'd be curious, like what they've started with Apple and Google, but it feels like everybody's breaking this rule.

Leo Laporte (00:52:40):
What if Apple did the same thing for their ads that they do for everybody else and have a little when you, no, they do it, but you have to go get it. What? They pushed you a little thing when you sign up for an Apple account, first use a phone, right? Pushed it and says, do you want us to track you or not? You know what the answer would be? No. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (00:52:58):
Their argument, their argument is that that's first party that nobody does that kind of response for, for first party stuff. But again, like this whole thing goes into like, what does it actually mean for the consumer? Some of the EU stuff is like borderline radi. Like they have a bill passing to say that Google YouTube can't use privately available information to recommend videos to, you can only use publicly available information to recommend videos to you. And nobody wants their information made public. So going forward, no recommendation recommend a video To anybody. Yeah. Yeah. So like the, the EU I think this is like, everybody is wrong on this one.

Andy Ihnatko (00:53:30):
No, you, part of it is, is part of the problem, like with this Italian action is that they, they find it very, very easy to pass a law saying, well, you have to inform people. You have to be open and, and forthright, but they're not gonna define examples of what, what is going to meet our, our legal definition of open and forthright. And that's where these kind of problems happen. And also like, I, I agree with you Rene. There's when you, when you start, when, when you wanna control Google and you start saying that you have to explain exactly how the, how the search algorithm works. You have to explain exactly how certain results get, get promoted and others will not get promoted saying, well, great. So now you're basically saying you must make the search algorithm completely useless because it'll be nothing but 80, 81st pages of links to things that have nothing to do with what you search for. Yes. It's like you have to, you have to have people who understand what is the goal and what is a reasonable attack towards that goal.

Leo Laporte (00:54:20):
I can, I can understand if you're giving somebody Gmail or some sort of valuable service for free. Does Apple give us a, a valuable service for free? When we sign up for an Apple account,

Rene Ritchie (00:54:31):
The Apple account, you get like five gig storage and you get free email and free calendaring and you get all the, all the basic tier to iCloud.

Leo Laporte (00:54:40):
I mean the Apple account, how much, a reason for apple to say, well, we we're giving you this free service. So you have to give us information for ads. Is that a reasonable? They do do a Google.

Rene Ritchie (00:54:49):
Like they, they do make a privacy poll it's and I find it annoying. Like this is the other problem is that like, there is, there is dialogue, fatigue that sets in really quickly. Like if you install an iPhone fresh, like I do four or five times a year, you, you can't open apps. Like even sometimes when you update it, you, this is what's new in notes. This is the new privacy thing too. People are shaking hands, explain to you how we're shaking hands and why. Right. Like, no, I just wanna use notes.

Leo Laporte (00:55:10):
That's probably Apple's thinking is, well, we could pop that up, but people won't like it.

Rene Ritchie (00:55:16):
Well, they do like, you just have to click into it. And they probably mean that like, you should have the whole thing, like right away. But like, it's, it's so frustrating. Like some apps do that and you gotta scroll through this whole thing only then is a check mark, because that's done to prove that you've read the entire thing only VE does a check mark pop up. Oh, I know. And then you gotta press the button and then you press the second button to say that you read. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:55:35):
So if I go to privacy and tracking, it's all third party allow apps to request to track. It's all third party, but there's a second.

Rene Ritchie (00:55:44):
Yeah, if you go to, I'll go with

Leo Laporte (00:55:46):
You, but that's where I, I would go as a, as a user, I would go to settings, privacy tracking, and I would want that switch to turn off Apple's tracking. It's not there.

Rene Ritchie (00:55:57):
Yeah. A lot of people want that Apple's argument in, which I, I don't agree with is that it conflates first and third party tracking, they wanna have separate screens for first party and third party. Yeah. But they, everybody else's first. So where

Leo Laporte (00:56:08):
Is, is it down here? Analytics and improve. Oh, here it is way at the bottom. Apple. Apple advertising. Yeah. Okay. So, and I have turned that off and then you can also, this is actually good view target ad targeting information. It's not available right now. Okay. Never. Well, no, cause you turned it off

Rene Ritchie (00:56:27):
For like 48 hours and then you can

Leo Laporte (00:56:28):
See it. Good. So that's a good feature. So there you go. It is, it is at least it's in privacy. It's just at the very bottom under Apple advertising. So that's fair and, and improvements. Those are, that's just the data you said, but you can turn all that off too, which is good. And it's nice. Cuz you can turn it off after the fact, if you don't turn it off when you first install the phone, I think, I think that's fair. I think that's adequate. I think that's adequate. Yeah. All right. Apple. I, I think we mentioned this last week, don't expect any more Intel modems in the iPhone, apple

Alex Lindsay (00:57:10):
Or bottom. You mean qu you mean Qualcomm, Qualcomm or Intel? They bought Intels, right? Well they, they bought Intels. Oh right. Cell phone surface. So, oh, okay. So yeah. You're not gonna, so they

Leo Laporte (00:57:19):
Have Intels radios. You're not gonna get any more Qualcomm either because Apple says we're gonna start building actually minchi quote says Apple will be doing a deal with TSMC to build those iPhone

Alex Lindsay (00:57:29):
Modems. It sounds like they're only gonna make call comment though, because

Rene Ritchie (00:57:33):
Yeah. Part of the deal, the settlement was that they would license Qualcomms patents. It's very, very, as they learned when they decided to settle with Qualcomm, it is really hard to build a modem without Qualcomm patents. So it sounds like good gonna do very similar to what they did with the arm tips to begin with. And that is they licensed to cortex cores and then step by step, right? They started replacing them with their own, their own CPUs, their own GPU, their own, everything. This is gonna be like, they're using Qualcomm modems. Now they're gonna build an Apple modem. But using all of Qualcomms licenses, they have to get an RF antenna array. They have to get a whole bunch of other communication parts a is more than just like a single or single or

Leo Laporte (00:58:07):
Thing. We had a really interesting conversation on Sunday on TWI Sam bull Sam, our car guy was there. So was doc rock doc rock. We were talking about Apple's car initiative. Doc rock said, one of the goals of the car initiative may not be to sell a coal car, but merely to develop intellectual property patents that you will then license to other people.

Alex Lindsay (00:58:31):
I, I think they're gonna make a car. <Laugh> like, they're doing a lot of work. Like that's a lot of work just to do, just to

Leo Laporte (00:58:36):
Do that IP. Well, it could be plan B though is well, cuz yeah. I mean, yeah. It looks like they're, they're hiring so many people they're working pretty hard on

Rene Ritchie (00:58:44):
Plus Leo it's.

Leo Laporte (00:58:46):
Although Sam, Sam made the point, they're hiring all those people because so many people are leaving <laugh> they're right. They're really just replacing the engineers. They're losing like you know Doug going to where did, where did Doug was Doug Jones? Where did he go? Well, there's, there's

Alex Lindsay (00:59:01):
Just a handful of the folks that really are in the middle of this. Yeah. So everyone just keeps passing each. Yeah. Everyone just keeps finally offering more money than the last one. And then someone else more money. Like the folks that are really in the, in the middle of this are making insane salaries, you know, because they're the only ones that know how to do it.

Leo Laporte (00:59:17):
Every time they cross the street they're salary doubles. <Laugh> exactly. It's a good team. They hired Latin right after he invented swift. Like the next year he left and went to Tesla, worked there for a year. Right, right. Apple lost its head of battery development to, to Volkswagen. But again, they'll hire somebody else and then there'll be a story. Look, Apple just got Tesla or the watery guy then it's like, they

Alex Lindsay (00:59:38):
They'll just finish his mission. We'll Volkswagen and hire him back in two years with all the information that Volkswagen had.

Leo Laporte (00:59:43):
Yeah. There you go. We'll see. So so you think they're really gonna build a car? We talked about this last week. I just thought it was an interesting, and maybe it's a secondary strategy, but it is true. He, doc rock said, they're gonna be like IBM or Qualcomm. They're just gonna have all of this intellectual property over smart cars, full self of driving. And then everybody will have to license it from Apple.

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:05):
Well, I I'm sure if it's gonna be intellectual property, but they could be going for an angle like NVIDIA's going for, which is saying we are gonna build the chips that are specifically optimized for this task. We're putting, they they're putting so much R and D into self-driving technology because they don't wanna build a car. They wanna build the chips that all the other car makers are gonna wanna put into their stuff more than anything else. One part of the race is at some point there is going to be a, a federal or federal or at the minimum of federal advisory for state level certifications on what a car has to achieve or has to be able to demonstrate in order to be certified for use on public roads. And if and videos, the first company to say, we have the chips that you can put into whatever you want.

Andy Ihnatko (01:00:44):
These have already passed. You don't have to subject your hardware to new testing. Yeah. That would be a huge leap forward. Yeah, Apple. It is also in a good, in a good position if, if they really are leveraging their their their, their, their they really are leveraging their ability to create custom CPU custom custom sip for what they wanna do. If they can really scale this up. Maybe the end game for that for apple, Silicon is not necessarily the most powerful desktop on the planet. It's well, we can now make computers that are so immensely powerful that we can put them. We can manufacture them at scale, put them in cars and let the car do things that have that breakthrough limits that only existed because of lack of processing. Well, that

Leo Laporte (01:01:26):
Was one of conversations. Is, is Apple making chips to sell to other car companies? Do you think Apple would ever sell its apple? It's not

Alex Lindsay (01:01:33):
Really, they're just not really OEM an OEM style company. You know, that that's gonna sell the chips out. I think they wanna make, they wanna make sure people use air, you know, CarPlay and, and which works fairly well. And, and I think that gives them a lot of data and a lot of information that's super useful for them in the short term. I think that the, the Apple, I think Tim cook was very, fairly binary about this at some point where he just said, you know, Apple looks at where we can uniquely add value to a market. And then we go after it, you know, like, look, it's, it's not, it's, you know, they look at what, these are the technology, this is the group of technologies we have. This is a market where we think we could make it better. I mean, most cars.

Alex Lindsay (01:02:09):
I mean, we, I, I still feel like cars are where we were for the most part. The average car is where we were before the iPhone, which is that, you know, like I had a trio. And if you ask me if I love my trio, no, <laugh> like, I, I, I don't really like it. I just it's the best. It was the, in my opinion, the best of the, a bunch of bad choices, the first one that was a good choice for me was the iPhone. And, and so the thing is, is that I like that I was excited about. And then that I was being surprised and delighted every day, or like, oh, I can't believe it does this thing. You know? And so, so I think that that is I think the Apple's looking for, they obviously think that there's, there's, there's something there at the end of that tunnel. And so I think that they're gonna keep on going down that path. And I think that, yeah, you

Leo Laporte (01:02:51):
Raise interesting point. There's no privacy setting in CarPlay. Is there, there just, they're just gathering it

Alex Lindsay (01:02:57):
All up it, if you're make a, if you're gonna make a car, you, what you, for both Google and Apple, if you're doing a car, what you really want is people using every car as a, as a data. Yeah. You know, like to, to tell you, have you learn more Tesla, secret sauce

Leo Laporte (01:03:13):
Was that they, they made everything. So they got all the data and that was a real advantage to them in developing full sell of most like,

Alex Lindsay (01:03:20):
That's why Google maps is so good because it's got all those people. The reason I can tell you how long probably why

Leo Laporte (01:03:25):
They're, I'm using Apple maps. Right.

Alex Lindsay (01:03:27):
Well, yeah. Well for the car. Yeah. so the, the but it also, you need, you need the maps for AR and a bunch of other things there's maps are super useful if you're thinking a decade out. Yeah. but you you're

Leo Laporte (01:03:38):
Thinking that way because you want collect all that data. Right. And you wanna make Mac good enough. And

Andy Ihnatko (01:03:42):
So, but that does bring up another issue though. If Apple were to start to decide that we're gonna be selling at least a maybe not chips, but a board here's a board that will you, that takes all the inputs you want and will support all the self-driving stuff. Are they gonna be okay with selling the chips, selling the board, selling the software or whatever, with the knowledge that Hey, GM is gonna be putting this in a car, that's also gonna be collecting consumer data, selling it to selling access to it, to whoever they want to, to try to monetize this customer is apple going to restrict them to a license to say that, by the way, all of the uses personal data is in a secure enclave. You don't have the, even the ability to get at it, even if you wanted to, to violate our, our, our trust on that.

Alex Lindsay (01:04:24):
I, I just don't think that apple, I, I think that there's no, the, the, the putting a, their board into a traditional market car is not gonna provide the margins that apple, that Apple's going be interested in. You know, like it's not, you know, it's a low margin business that they're putting a low margin and card into as an OEM. And I don't know where apple puts OEMs anywhere else. And so I, I, I think that if they're interested in a car they're interested in a car, like, I think that they're, they're interested in doing a car, maybe. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:04:51):
Maybe as I, as I keep way saying I have, I have no idea what they're interested in. I, I find, I, I find the argument that they're making a car very logical, very truthful. I think it fits in very well with what we know about the character of apple and what seems to move them. However, I don't see why they would wanna buy into such an immense pile of complications hurt involved. We said the same thing over

Leo Laporte (01:05:16):
The smartphone said exactly the same thing, phones. It's not, it's not quite, it's not quite the same thing. I think. Well, but here's my, my, my attitude towards this is apple is desperate to find and they should, and their business model requires them to find a successor to the amazing success of the iPhone. So they're gonna try things and they have, have at least three areas. They're trying, we've talked about this before. Car

Alex Lindsay (01:05:40):
Is one of them augmented reality. We're gonna talk about that in a second is another one. And health is a third and they're smart. They're working all. Why should you, they have enough money to work all three in AI and AI. Yeah. Lot. Although I feel like apple is inevitably because they Don gather as much information. Maybe they do. Does apple gathers, I guess they do. They, they get as much. No, I don't think they gather the same. I don't think they gather as much information, but you can also build things that aren't yet necessarily using a information from the past. If you look at a lot of what they're doing, even in stuff like final cut and motion with the tracking stuff that they've added you know, it's taking a whole different level of, I can identify this. I, I can pull it out and I can track these things to, yeah. That's really

Leo Laporte (01:06:20):
Important, obviously, but Google, so, and other companies have a kind of a head start. No, you don't think so. That was Tim. No, I think they do have

Alex Lindsay (01:06:27):

Rene Ritchie (01:06:27):
Yeah, the, the LA apple store, we said the three things that they're working on are automation, artificial intelligence, and VR. He thinks, and, and he makes it sound like they're not, again, these aren't product, it's like screens, aren't products, but an iPhone is a screen, a Mac. What you mean by

Leo Laporte (01:06:41):
Automation? Automation

Rene Ritchie (01:06:43):
Is like, things like the car, but the car's not the only thing they're working on. He thinks that those are the core technologies, the way that connectivity and displays and things, where again, like an apple watch an iPhone in a Mac, all have radios. They all have screens. They all have all these things, but they're separate products. And he believes the products in the future will have various levels of AI and VR, various levels of AI, various levels of automation. And those are the key technologies apple has to control.

Leo Laporte (01:07:04):
So his point of view, the most important thing of the car is not a vehicle. It's the autonomy. It's the, well, I,

Alex Lindsay (01:07:11):
I would say car is just a

Rene Ritchie (01:07:13):

Leo Laporte (01:07:14):
It's just a expression of something that apple is really what, what Apple's really

Rene Ritchie (01:07:18):
Be making robots too. Like, I'd be, imagine

Leo Laporte (01:07:20):
In fact, he even said an a autonomous car is a robot. He said that last spring. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:07:24):
Well, I, I also think, I think it's just a seamless experience, like, and when they a seamless experience across many, many different things that, you know, that, that, that I, you know, I think that home kit is all part of that. Although I don't think that they're doing it very well. Not, I mean, I just think that apple has to take it over and start making their own products. Like, I think that the, the getting other people to do it has not been successful. And so, so the so I think that but, but building this thing where I can seamlessly go from one place to another, I can go to one thing to another. You're seeing this constantly with apple is I can now have my iPad be another screen for my computer. I can have my phone play music, movies on my I, my apple TV.

Alex Lindsay (01:07:59):
I have all these things that, that are all interconnected to each other. I, you know, I can walk up and my, my car knows that it's me because I have a watch that says it was me. I have a phone that is me and I get close to the car and it's probably me. And I can just open the door. I mean, I know it's me more than the key, the key <laugh>, you know, so, so the, so the so I think that those, those kinds of, you know, all of that's being seamless is I think apple is gonna constantly be building that ecosystem

Leo Laporte (01:08:25):
Though. Here's an interest, a tidbit from scooter X in our chatroom, according to Porsche who has car, planets, cars, apple collect a lot of information. They only collect information, whether a car is accelerating while CarPlay in use Android auto collects pretty much everything you can get from an OB D two port vehicle speed oil and cooling temperature throtle position, engine revs. So, so somebody who knows an auto manufacturer who implements both says it actually, Apple's very parsimonious in what it collects, but Google collects it, everything that

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:01):
Makes sense that, that, that is so true to form. But what, from what Alex said, if, if you take apples and analogy of you can have our device and it'll be a screen for other things that version for Google is information that we will take per personal information and use it to of power, pretty much everything that you do, that that happens within the Google universe. And also, you're also helping Google to understand how people operate cars. You were, we were speaking earlier about how one of big, one of Tesla's biggest advantages in its quasi path towards level five autonomy was the fact that each one of their cars, even though it's, they, even than before self assistive technologies were really really hot in those things. It was still collecting data about what does the road look like? What, how, how did drivers respond to this, that, and the other?

Andy Ihnatko (01:09:46):
What can it see? What can it not see? What are the blind spots? That sort of stuff is where if, when you have we have a Google device and see every single car, it can, it can also figure out what I did. This person accelerate this juncture. I know, I know where this person is. I know that there's a curve coming up in the speed limit in this intersection is DROS down from 45 to 25. Why did they not slow down sooner? Or why are they turning at this point? So this is, there's so much, there's so much in, in this gumbo that we have to pick apart that we really can't trust anybody. It's like the Iger sanction <affirmative>.

Leo Laporte (01:10:18):
So this is what Tim cook told that Kara Swisher back in the spring, and it, it actually is exactly what you were saying. Alex, we love to integrate hardware, software, and services and find the intersection points of those, because we think that's where the magic occurs. And that's what we love to do. And we love to own the primary technology that's around that the autonomy itself is a core technology. In my view, if you take a step back, the car is in a lot of ways, a robot, an autonomous car is a robot. And so there are lots of things you can do with autonomy, and we'll see what Apple does. So that really implies. And that confirms what he said yesterday in LA that the three legs of the Apple tripod are not what I was saying. Car health and AR, but really autonomy AR.

Leo Laporte (01:11:12):
And what did he say? The third one was Rene AI AR AI VR and automation, auto automation, auto automation, automation. I feel like AI and automation are related, but anyway let's take a little break. I do wanna talk about the AR rumor, cuz minchi quotes added again. Or as you would say, Rene, goming G but <laugh> our show today brought to you by Melissa. Well, we just were talking about it. Having accurate customer data is very important for your business. Now this is data. Your customers are giving your business. The problem is, is changing all the time. Did you know, 36 million address to changes were processed by the postal service last year, 36 million. That means a huge chunk of customers. You could have the wrong address for 30% of customer. Data goes bad each year, but Melissa makes sure that your customer data is accurate.

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Rene Ritchie (01:15:35):
Supply chain, exfil

Leo Laporte (01:15:36):
Trader. He pretty much knows what's being made. I guess what's being manufactured. He says and actually he predicted in March that there would be a AR slash VR, probably a mixed reality headset released next year. Now more are technical information, two processors, one with the same level of computing power as the M one, that's a pretty broad range, but, and, and then a lower end chip. That's gonna just handle input from the sensors headset. He says has at least six to eight optical modules. And that makes sense because it's a seal, it looks like a VR, the, the drawings we've seen look like a VR helmet. It's not a C through. And he says, yeah, that's right. You'll get cameras six to eight optical modules, which will provide video C through for augmented reality. The headset is also said to have two 4k O led. Now, I don't know if it's a mistake micro O led displays from Sony. I don't, I guess in that size they could be pretty expensive, but they would certainly look very, very good. Those micro led displays. What do you think I do you, first of all, Rene, he's trustworthy to some degree. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:16:48):
Yeah. I mean like he does, he does make guesses based on what he sees in the supply chain. And those always come down to just like his experience as sometimes he guess is wrong. And there's also been a lot of movement. Like mark Garman had a very similar story couple weeks ago. And then just this week he said that, oh, the timelines are actually much further out than he thought that they were. So I would take all of this with a very large size grain of salt. And also this seems to be like this weird conflation in, in a lot of media articles where they think the VR headset and the, the AR headset are the same things. It's two products. They're not, they're too very products. Yeah. One's like the VR, headset's like an Apple TV. It's meant for you to have like this big display in your face. And you'll be doing like fitness plus and watching movies and playing games. And the AR headset is meant to be like this convenience thing where you don't even have to a lift your wrist anymore to see like the basic information around you. But that's many more years out than the VR headset is

Leo Laporte (01:17:34):
This latest report analyst report go says fall of next year for the V I'll say VR. So it's clear. But the, the, he also says it'll be a standalone platform. And this may be case of him confusing the two products, cuz it makes sense. The AR headset has to be standalone if you know, but the VR could be tied to something well it,

Alex Lindsay (01:17:57):
And it, and it could be a configuration thing as well. So you might use your phone to configure it and get it set up. And then it runs on its own like a quest for instance, I have to go to Facebook to get it to run. And then my, then I never see it again cuz my kids use it. Right. But, but the but they come over every once in a while they have to reregister or reconfigure something. And so I think that potentially it would be easier to configure the, the headset with iPhone or iPad or your computer, but then once you're in it, my guess is, is it probably has the processing power to do a lot on its own. I,

Andy Ihnatko (01:18:26):
I agree. It would be, it would be quite something if they could find, if they could create a wireless connection to an iPhone that is fast enough that the latency wouldn't just drive you nauseous within 20 minutes with a, with a VR headset.

Leo Laporte (01:18:39):
He also said in the same,

Alex Lindsay (01:18:41):
Go ahead. I was gonna say that a watch is independent and independent at the same time. I think that the interaction between the watch is a good model for what will be probably going on with the headset.

Leo Laporte (01:18:50):
It's conceivable that the first device next year might actually be hooked up to an apple TV or a computer in some form or fashion. And then the, the following one would be, I don't think it'll be tethered.

Alex Lindsay (01:19:02):
You don't think it'll be tethered at all?

Rene Ritchie (01:19:04):
No, I think it's gonna be the way around. Yeah. The first one's gonna be independent because it has Mac level processing on it. The second one, like a pair of glass are just non-trivial like, and the thought, but it wouldn't

Leo Laporte (01:19:13):
Be tethered. It would be paired to make it would be paired. Yeah.

Rene Ritchie (01:19:17):
Yeah. Right. yeah. I mean the way the apple, the way the original apple watch was, and then it over frequent gen subsequent generations it'll get more and more independent. The way the apple watch is

Leo Laporte (01:19:26):
I would love a pair of apple spectacles. In fact that says, he says, they're they have a 10 year timeline to replace at least 1 billion iPhones with these glasses in the next 10 years. Okay. Well

Andy Ihnatko (01:19:44):
That's, that's

Leo Laporte (01:19:45):
More him at that's him. That's that's a guess. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:19:48):
That's that's yeah. I, whenever I've seen, we've seen a lot of eight like this, oh, by two by 2025. Oh, in the next seven years. Oh and whatever I've I, whenever I see those numbers, I always imagine that they got hold of some, in some sort of communication or secondhand some communication that said, well, if we're, we're gonna have to have some sort of, of a target just, well, I can tell you where

Leo Laporte (01:20:08):
This comes from from what's the even says ahead, this is Apple's. So a, B F I don't know what that is. Supplier uni micron will be the leading beneficiary. So this is clearly coming from uni micron saying, yeah, we have an order for 1 billion of these in the next 10 years.

Andy Ihnatko (01:20:25):
Well, there you go. And benefits from that saying, Hey, we just, we are getting this huge contract from this amazing company for a transformative product. Boy, if I had, if I could legally buy more stock in my own company, I would do so too bad. I don't know what I can do with this information, but all, all I was going for is that it's, I don't, there's a difference between a, a circle, a date circled on a board when Cupertino said this is going to be our target launch date and saying, well, we couldn't possibly get this together and in any sort of a ship or any earlier than this. And this is, and I, I did like an earlier rumor. I think, I think he also provided, which is that they, their first release of this is going to be a lot like other VR headsets, which is, this is not this thing that you go into Wal Walmart or best buy and buy to play to play light saver games on this is a developer sort of oriented release. That's gonna cost a couple of thousand dollars is not expected to be ready for again, some kid who just wants to play games or just wants to have an immersive experience. This is for people who want to develop the software, that's going to be on another release two or three years in the, in the line that I can definitely believe

Leo Laporte (01:21:30):
AB if

Rene Ritchie (01:21:31):
The two problems that we have with the reporting is like, there's two larger issues. One is both the media's really bad right now it's separating between whether its a report and what is like the opinion attached to the report. Yeah. Like we'll get a mark Iman official Bloomberg story. That's been vetted completely and they'll report on it. Then you'll make an offhand report like a remark on Twitter as newsletter. Yeah. I think Apple's gonna be interested in one day in this one day and it gets, Blogg exactly the same way as the vetted report. And that's an issue. And then the other part is that like the things that quote says based on his, well, not just quo in general, but there's a lot of stories that come up about LG and Samsung displays for these devices that are in industry rags, who sold per purpose is to advocate for the deals that these companies want. It's a public negotiation tactic, well known in the industry, but people report on it as if it's news and that conflates a lot of this

Leo Laporte (01:22:18):
Information. So uni micron is a manufacturer they're building up big time to make more ABF. This is something known as the engine, no Moto the film, it's a substrate part of the packaging that protects chips needed to power your computer or car and allowing communication among them, which is clear as mud. But this substrate is what's made by uni micron. And this is what he's basing this on, is that, you know, apple is, I imagine what he saw was just like you said, Andy, maybe uni micron named apple. Maybe they didn't, but well we're building these factories because we've got a very big client that wants a lot of, I mean, subs. Yeah. If you're looking at ship dates, if, if you think that that's the subrate that they would use and suddenly you see that,

Alex Lindsay (01:23:05):
Whether they say anything or not, they've suddenly ramped up production for delivery in March. Yeah. You know, like you're going well, you know, the I, I think that, I think that it's, it is probable that apple would release some, would announce something in June to prepare developers and sell something in the fall. I think that it is almost certain they'll do it in 2023 if they don't do it in 2022. I think that I should also close enough to the surface that it's gonna be a big deal. And, and again, if, if it comes out, I, I think what we've watched is one of the more masterful rollouts of, of technology, because what they're solving that, that I don't think that Facebook has solved very well is the development of the content and the breadth of the content. You is all these tools that they're building for developers for, you know, when you look at again, most of the features added to motion and final cut have more to do and even logic have more to do with the AR than they have to do with video, you know?

Alex Lindsay (01:23:57):
And so, so they're so a lot of those tools are, are really built for something that isn't there yet. And so that's, and, and that is gonna, I, I think is a, is something that they're correcting from what they did with iBooks <laugh>, you know, which is you didn't have any tools to build it, you know? Like, and, and, and so, and so the thing is, is that I think that apple is in a really interesting position where they've, they've spent, you know, five years, you know, paving roads for a city that didn't exist. And now they're about to put, drop that city into place.

Leo Laporte (01:24:24):
So it's interesting because they, ABF, it turns out is one of the components that's causing the chip shortage and it's predict. And all the companies that make ABF by the way are suddenly soaring in value. Because supplies of ABF are likely to remain constrained until at least 2025. And so that's why they're built. That's why uni micron on these other companies are building these factories as fast as they can. This is a key component that is part of the chip shortage.

Alex Lindsay (01:24:52):
That's interesting. Yeah. I think that, I think apple will probably charge two or $3,000 for these headsets and they'll sell as many as they can make. Yeah. <laugh> like, like, I don't know how many that is. I dunno how many they'll make, but

Leo Laporte (01:25:01):
They'll, but they'll be able to sell contributing to the wavy timeline too. Is can we make 'em can

Alex Lindsay (01:25:07):
Think even if they can make hundreds of thousands or millions it's worth doing, because they're gonna start to be able to gather like what's working and not working. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:25:14):
Great. But also it's, it's it's, I, I like the idea of a company at that scale, deciding that our plan is not to own the market with the first release. We can't own the market cuz we don't understand the market yet. We're gonna create a platform that we can. That makes sense for us to sell only 50,000, a hundred thousand of them because because the people who buy them are gonna the people who are gonna be very, very well motivated to accept that. No, it's not perfect. Yes. We're putting this in your hands because we need your input. We need your information and you will also benefit by being a year ahead of everybody else. This also plugs into the car where car makes a little bit more sense when you realize that a start, if you think of apple making, if let's say, if, if we agree that they're making a car, a startup car company, doesn't have to start up making as many cars as they've made, as they made phone iPhones the first year, they can actually build just 10 to 20,000 cars and say that this was a good startup.

Andy Ihnatko (01:26:06):
If they a good startup release, if they learned a lot from it and they put some cars in the road that made people see them passing by and thinking, well, gee, I've got still a good five or six years left in the car that I own right now, or my lease isn't up for another two or three years. But gosh, when it's time for me to get a new car, maybe I will be buying an apple car in three or four years. So that's the sort of stuff I love this. This is why I keep defending Google glass because I thought that they didn't, they didn't wanna put it into every single store. They said that, look, if you, we, we are gonna let we, we're gonna release these in drips and DRS. If you, if you buy one, you're gonna have to come to an office and we will fit you for it and walk you through how to use it because we need to figure what people are gonna be using this for that you learned such interesting stuff from

Alex Lindsay (01:26:46):
That. I do mean, I, I mean I loved Google glass and I think that the, the thing that made it, the coolest was the thing that, that was it's it's downfall, which was the camera, you know, the camera made it weird. But it was so powerful, like being able to do, give you a, a perfect point of view. And the key is you could see the view for finder easily and, and be able to show someone something or be able to show this is what you're I have pictures of my, like me swinging daughter when she was two or three years old or whatever, with Google glass where it's a picture that you couldn't shoot any other way, you know, cuz I'm swinging around saying, okay, take, you know, take a picture. You know? And, and, and and so I think that there is I think there's an incredible you know, value in getting ahead of that. As, as Andy said, I think that apple, when I, I was watching, speaking to my daughter again, last night, she was doing some climber thing on, on on the quest and she was seated doing this thing, right. Like doing, doing something. And I realized, oh, if you had a self-driving car and you put those goggles on, you could be doing all kinds of things while you're going from one place to another. <Laugh> like you could, you know, the two of them, the two of them could possibly fit together really nicely,

Leo Laporte (01:27:58):
Couple of quick stories, some leaks of the new swift playgrounds for developers who have access to it are NDA. But I guess not everybody keeps their word. And so a nine to five Mac and others have pictures. Swift playgrounds is interesting because it's it lets you build and submit your apps all on the iPad to the app store. Yep. Here's the screenshots from nine to five Mac among other things. It shows you how you can create your own icon within swift playgrounds. Wow. it also lets you preview and see changes in real time as you type live editing. That's pretty cool. You can even do it when you share the project with someone else via iCloud drive. So multiple people can work on the same project at the same time. Apple kind of showed that at the WWDC this year, users can test the app in full screen, explore swift UI controls, search across all files in a project, use quick inline code suggestions and switch back and forth between swift playgrounds and X code. What's really interesting is swift playgrounds was developed and released really is a way to teach kids how to learn, how to code. And it was very basic. It's gotten more and more powerful new. Now it looks like it's actually a development environment.

Andy Ihnatko (01:29:23):
Yeah. I think, I think the kids who learn programming and swift with swift playgrounds soon prove that no, you can actually become freely great commercial programmers just with the skills that you learn through this platform. It's I think it's one of Apple's of, of all of apple successes. I think swift playgrounds is Apple's strongest, quiet success. The one that you don't really talk about, the one that doesn't point it to as an influence, but my goodness, if the gen, if, if the goal was to make sure that the next generation of important Mac OS and Iowas programmers don't really care about <laugh> about any sort of any sort of evolution of C plus plus in order to get things live, drive and survive. Boy, was that a success?

Leo Laporte (01:30:05):
It does look like he can actually write some swift code in it, which is interesting. So apple and when they announced swift playgrounds four at WWDC did not give a timeline, but it's according to nine to five requires some features of iPad, O S 15.2, which is now available as a beta. I think that means maybe this will come out with 15.2 Rene. Does that sound right? Be later this year, year? I hope so. I mean, that's always, my hope sometimes stuff gets pushed further, but I always, I always hope for the next release. This will be something to watch for very interesting. <Affirmative> now it's time for the problems report. <Laugh> I am experiencing none of these, but I've heard from people. In fact, I heard somebody on the radio should call me saying iOS 15 broke my Bluetooth hands free.

Leo Laporte (01:30:57):
And according to nine to five, some iPhone 12 and 13 users are reporting that you see it on, read it primarily. And on the apple support forum, the issue appears to primarily affect the drivers of Toyota cars and trucks and some Audi and Volvo cars, but not quite as widespread one user called Toyota. They said we don't have any fixed even our app isn't working properly <laugh> so maybe this is gonna require a fix from apple. One user said the iPhone was unusable for cars calls in, in his car because of dropping Bluetooth. So just to, to just be aware of another problem I'm hearing about out, and I haven't experienced either is if you have a 16 inch, oh, I don't have a 16 inch. Maybe that's why inch MacBook pro some people are reporting that the MagSafe charger stops working. When you close the lid, when you close the, would you ever

Rene Ritchie (01:31:59):
Close the lid? <Laugh> have you seen that display? <Laugh> it's mini L E D it's HDR.

Leo Laporte (01:32:04):
I have to say, why would you even plug in MagSafe? You can go days without it. So I don't know. Have you had that? You're the only one I know with a 16 inch MacBook pro? No.

Rene Ritchie (01:32:13):
So like, I, I, I, a lot of people on Twitter that I really respect to, like, I just use it a clamshell motor I'm like, but that's one of the best display you could buy. It's better than any of those standalone monitors. You have to spend thousands of dollars to get a display and you're clam shelling it. And they're like, I like what I like, and you want, you want to get dust on it? Oh, for shame, for shame, just use a display, use it, love it. Live it, get a Sunan. It's beautiful. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:32:36):
So yeah, just, if you notice, when you have the MagSafe plugged in, normally it, when it's charging it's green, if you close the lid and it turns Amber, you have the problem. And Apple's, you know, not saying anything yet. Although according to when a lot, these are Maverick issues.

Rene Ritchie (01:32:54):
Yeah, exactly. They'll be fixed in software updates. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:32:58):
Apple has introduced in new MacBook upgrade program for business partners where you can pay it off over time. Apple business partners can distribute the 13 inch MacBook pro MacBook air or 14 inch MacBook pro or 16 inch MacBook pro to staff for 3% of their retail list prices as monthly installments. So if you do the math you get a 14 inch for 60 bucks a month 16 inch for 75 bucks a month. There is no Mac desktop as part of this program. I can understand that there are a lot of businesses that are replacing their max with these new computers, cuz they're so fast.

Alex Lindsay (01:33:37):
Yep. I mean, if you, if you look at the, the phone, the computer, the, the car, all of those build a really great subscription service <laugh> or you just, you just pay a certain amount a month for all these things and you get a new one when, when we're done with it, you know, like that's the, I mean, I think that that's the model is giant subscription services.

Leo Laporte (01:33:54):
Yeah. Micah found a post on Reddit by developer from Reddit who said this is, we recently found that the new MacBook M one MacBook cut our Android build times in half, do a little math for a team of nine. You buy $32,000 with of laptops. It'll save you a hundred thousand dollars over a year in productivity. The break even point happens in three months.

Rene Ritchie (01:34:20):
So yeah, like for me, it's not even like we talked about it. It's not even that the times are faster though. They are, they're like 10 times faster, but it's being offloaded to, to discrete processing units. So the main GPU and GP are for me to do something else. So it's like having two computers sometimes it's it's we live in a beautiful age. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:34:37):
<Laugh> anything else we wanna talk about? Here, it's not really in our portfolio, we'll be certainly talking about it tomorrow on twig and on TWI Jack Dorsey suddenly abandoning his CEO role at Twitter. He'll stay at square. Peral is taking over he's a long time actually. Ben Thompson had a great piece on this long time. He tweeted, I love you.

Rene Ritchie (01:35:05):
And then left. It was, it was remarkable. <Laugh> I love case you

Leo Laporte (01:35:11):
In the next tweet I'm outta here. I'm just going around to the store for some cigarettes. I'll be right. Where did daddy go? Stock went up up 10% when they heard the rumor. And then when they found out that Aral was gonna take over, it started going back down because he's really the stock market saying, what are you gonna do to make some money, Twitter and having somebody from the, they wanna Dick back over? Yeah, actually Ben Thompson said, just start charging for Twitter period. Make it a pay service. The, maybe make Twitter

Rene Ritchie (01:35:40):
Blue, like actually like every other premium, like YouTube premium, where it actually gives you valuable

Leo Laporte (01:35:44):
Stuff. I paid for Twitter blue, partly cuz I just wanna support the service. So I don't

Rene Ritchie (01:35:49):
Know. Imagine on that. It's like 10 bucks, but there's no ads. I mean, that'd be amazing.

Leo Laporte (01:35:53):
Yeah. Well may or, you know, I think you probably do it for three bucks and, and just make it worthwhile. That's how much Twitter blue is and make it worthwhile. I don't think they're making all

Alex Lindsay (01:36:04):
I'll say is Twitter. Twitter is amazing when you use the filters. Like it's like, I, my, my Twitter is my Twitter experience is so great, but I have 150 terms that I don't wanna see. Yeah. So I, you know, like I literally just keep, if I see a tweet that I don't like, I just, what word in there can I search for and say, don't show me that again. And I just put it in the list standards I blocked. Yeah. I won't see that again. Yeah. So, and, and I, and the ads are, I mean, I block the, I blocked most of the ads just as a, to be passive aggressive. And so, so I, I mean, I, I know it does not gonna make any less of them. I just

Leo Laporte (01:36:34):
Like to. Yeah. And it doesn't make much difference. Their ads are not making them a whole lot of money. Yeah.

Alex Lindsay (01:36:38):
Well, it's the problem is with ads, is that when Ford ran an ad, I just blocked, I hit block. It says, did you wanna block Ford? I was like, sure. So, so like now the Ford can't even tweet to me. So, so the thing is, is that that blocking function inside of Twitter is devastating for the advertiser because it you're actually oh yeah you can make destroying your own cause I'm well, it's not an enemy. I just don't don't see anything I'm under at you. I just don't see, but it's not enemy. It's kinda like, I just don't wanna play anymore because you, you put an a I think, yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:37:07):
So here's his illustration, Ben Thompson's illustration. Instagram is a laid back relaxed experience. Watch is why it's advertisements work? Well, he said Twitter, Twitter is intense and combative and far more likely, but tied to something happening in the physical world, whether that be watching sports or politics or doing work. And so you're very unlikely to click an a on Twitter because you're, you're busy or you're, you're doing something, you're doing something. So he suggests, I think he's probably right that the, maybe the best solution for Twitter would be to make it a paid social network,

Rene Ritchie (01:37:40):
Promoted the blockchain guy, right. Promoted the, the NFTs gonna mint every tweet as an NFT. <Laugh>

Leo Laporte (01:37:48):
Yeah, I thought was, I thought Peral was a CTO. Yeah, he was a CTO. Yeah, he was. But he was in charge

Rene Ritchie (01:37:55):
Of Twitter's blockchain projects of which I still

Leo Laporte (01:37:58):
Would love to know what that story is. I don't even understand what that is. Yeah. <laugh> anyway, that it's not really our story to the blockchain Leo, but you guys are, you know, you Twitter users, so you can it's,

Andy Ihnatko (01:38:09):
It'll, it'll be interesting once the, once the founder goes, that is that signal's a C change for, or every policy, every bit of dogma that exists within that organization. Right. Microsoft changed as soon as the last of the old guard left when, when the founders of Google left, it, it, a lot of the it's it's reputation as a place where we just pursue ideas, just like it's a college campus and we make money off of some of them in, in immediately went away in terms of we'll pursue ideas. At some point you gotta show me the do Ray, me, or else you're canceled company after comfort or company. I think, I think Apple's probably the only company that kind of bucked that trend. And probably because every CEO had such personal relationships with the, with the one that came, excuse me, be probably because Tim cook had such a personal relationship with with Steve jobs and Steve jobs created a culture of everybody who is in a leadership position. There is essentially right on the same boat steering the, the sales towards the same direction. But this we'll, we'll see what happens with, with Twitter, whether it solves all the problems or whether all the problems become just more so mm-hmm, <affirmative> only one, but just

Rene Ritchie (01:39:14):
Leave as a founder. He's like a huge swipe at founders, a CEOs on his way out the door. Yeah. He was like, I think we need a pause from this, which is odd coming from someone who came back as a founder's CEO. Yeah. There's just so much drama to this that we, we haven't seen yet. Yeah.

Andy Ihnatko (01:39:28):
Yeah. And, and everyone's gonna be getting be speculating and it, and it could be as simple as this is just so extra. I'm a really, really rich man. I could be doing anything I want, and this is not what I want to do as a man who is now in his, when I was more in firm.

Alex Lindsay (01:39:47):
I, I, I often think like with a lot of these folks that have just an inordinate amount of money and they get in so much trouble, I am, I often wonder I go, you know, I, I, because I person, I mean, I have a lot of good ideas and I, I don't know. I have a lot of ideas. I have a lot of ideas that I think are good. If, if I had a lot of trouble with it, I'd be like, oh, I think if I had all that money, I would just go, I'm gonna go do one of the other ones. <Laugh> like, I'm gonna stop doing this one and start over again. Somewhere else. I

Leo Laporte (01:40:13):
Private island in the Bora Bo or

Alex Lindsay (01:40:16):
Somewhere. I, I don't know if I, I don't know if I would do the out, but I, I would definitely, I would definitely go pursue other, other ideas. So he's doing full time on.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:23):
Exactly. We,

Alex Lindsay (01:40:23):
We just keep on doing here.

Rene Ritchie (01:40:25):
Square is where the trendy web 3.0 people are hanging out. Leo it's much, it's much better than the goofy web 2.0 Twitter. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:40:32):
Apple is announced new limited edition beats studio buds with the African, the colors of the African flag, red, black, and green, the pan flag. And they will be available at the clothing store union, which of course is in Los Angeles and Tokyo. It's a black run business. And so this kind of black owned business. So this kind of makes sense. It's pretty, I kinda like it too. Are they? You like the studio buds? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're good. After the problems people have been having with Samsung's galaxy buds pro infecting their year, I don't want, I'm not sure I wanna put things in my ear anymore. I'm I'm gonna stick with it. You can

Rene Ritchie (01:41:11):
Get the, you the air pods through. Then they go over the, on the ear, not the, in the, on the ear,

Leo Laporte (01:41:16):
Airpods three, go over the on the ear instead of in

Rene Ritchie (01:41:19):
The, yeah, they don't go into the air canal. They just sit on top of them. So they're all in. I have the air pod in

Leo Laporte (01:41:24):
Ear and some are on in here pro max, $550 waste of money. You gotta wear them. You gotta put

Rene Ritchie (01:41:30):
The AirPods pro in and then put the cause that way you can edit while you're talking to us, you think you're

Leo Laporte (01:41:35):
Listening? I bought editing and I like to wear them on conference calls to blow people's minds. They're good for conference calls. They sound great. Not so good for listening to music. Alright. Grin says Apple's still working on an air power, like charger. I don't buy that for one moment. He says

Rene Ritchie (01:41:53):
He like, see that's again where you have to start parsing because that's not a Bloomberg story. That's in a newsletter. And he says, I think he doesn't say people

Leo Laporte (01:41:59):
Familiar with the matter have told me no, he's just making it up basically. Right.

Rene Ritchie (01:42:02):
Well, it's like, everybody can think anything. Leah. We think apple does all this, that stuff. Every show. I think people just don't blog

Leo Laporte (01:42:07):
It. I bet I'd guess. 

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:14):
All right. It must be, it must be really difficult when other people are generating content based on everything that you say where on this show, we can say we, I think oftentimes what

Leo Laporte (01:42:24):
I enjoy Andy and NACO thinks

Andy Ihnatko (01:42:27):
<Laugh> well, well, sometimes, and that's what the police come, but, but what I, but what, what I mean is that we, we can talk about how our beliefs are, what we're concluding on, on an apple car is based on here's what we're thinking. And here's what, and we'll have discussion on that's the beauty, what we think apple does. Yeah. As opposed to no, no breaking, breaking news on Dylan's super Hypertech blog channel on YouTube, like, and subscribe blockbuster announcement revealed on firmed. Colon. Apple is going to be developing a car, but only in limited numbers to begin with say apple analysts. <Laugh> they? Well, thank you for calling me an analyst, but

Leo Laporte (01:43:08):
Apple is selling no, I'm not gonna do this story. Let's set to take a break actually. Cause I think we've got some good picks this and I wanna get to those in just a little bit. How about that?

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:21):
Plus we haven't even started the great GATS yet. Okay. <laugh> it's not even a really long novel.

Rene Ritchie (01:43:26):
No, you guys did a good job. Even walk outta here. So fast. We,

Andy Ihnatko (01:43:29):
We got 20 minutes to get through the entire text. I dunno if I can read that

Leo Laporte (01:43:32):
Fast. You filled the time. Very well. Our show today brought to you. We get, we get to our pick in just a second. Rene, Andy and Alex, I show today brought to you by WealthFront. All right. I know you got stomp memes up the Wazu and diamond hands, and you're riding your rocket ship to the moon. But can I tell you as fun as day trading is or buying individual stocks is it is not the way I would recommend or anybody I know would recommend building long term wealth. Now it's fine have that little stock fund all for your own, but really you really should be opening it. A wealth front investment account today. The odds are not out in your favor. If you're doing it alone, you should team up with Wealthfront. Instead investing is complicated. Sure. It's fun. But it's also a little bit like casino gambling, not with Wealthfront.

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Leo Laporte (01:46:23):
So if you wanna, you know, you wanna buy more AMC stock or whatever, go ahead. But, but you know, you should really be putting the bulk of your savings in wealth front, start building your wealth. Get your first $5,000 managed for free for life. Go to w E a L T H F R O N T. Wealthfront.Com/Mac break to start building your wealth, break. We thank them so much for their support of Mac break weekly. You support us by using that address. So don't forget break. I'm gonna start with Alex Lindsay today because shutter bug wants to know where you got that great shirt you're wearing. Oh,

Alex Lindsay (01:47:11):
<Laugh> I, I like 80% of my, my wardrobe drove is from Eddie Bauer. Eddie Bower. Yeah. Like he

Leo Laporte (01:47:19):
Says, he's been trying to find, find it the outlet thereby. Oh, see, that's the problem. It's the outlet. So he's been trying to find it the

Alex Lindsay (01:47:25):
Outlet. So Eddie Bauer, the, the outlet is different. So the outlet is gets different clothes than the, than the main stuff they don't sell anymore. The other thing is this, this shirt is probably like five years old. It's been all over the world. Like these I've got like eight of these shirts. So they're they're if I, if it looks like I'm wearing the same one, I have a lot of 'em sorry, shut bug. Cause sorry. Cause when I, I could have a special feature. I could I can wash them in a sink in a hotel and they'll be dry by morning. That's the, that's the real, that's the real thing. So I bought a lot of them when I was, when I was in the, before times when I was traveling all the time. I, these were like my uniform, except for when I wore a tie and I had a, I had one, one nice thing and then I had these and then, and some other Eddie Bower pants <laugh> so that was it. So anyway, so what was I talking about? Oh 

Leo Laporte (01:48:14):
You talking about some very famous beats.

Alex Lindsay (01:48:18):
So I ran into this over Thanksgiving weekend. I was on, it was Thursday and I just I, I was taking a break. Oh, I kind of worked a lot of Thursday, but I, I was like, I didn't need, I need a movie. So I down and I don't know where the search came up, that it came up as 8 0 8. There is a documentary, I guess it came out in 2015 on the 8 0 8. You know, and, and it's not just an

Leo Laporte (01:48:41):
Area code baby. It's a roll is drum machine,

Alex Lindsay (01:48:44):
Man. The roll, the eight, the roll and drum machine basically created, you know, a lot of what we heard, heard in the eighties. And, and what was really fascinating. I, I just found the whole thing, fascinating, like of how it came out and how it suddenly became this huge thing. And I, and I will admit that I'm kind of a Fe for all I watch is music documentaries, and the new world has gotten so much better because there's documentaries on synthesized. There's some documentaries on just the use of electricity and music and documentaries from the Beatles and documentaries from the, you know, all stuff

Leo Laporte (01:49:17):
You did, you start watching the Beatles documentary on. I did.

Alex Lindsay (01:49:20):
I did. I have to admit that I,

Leo Laporte (01:49:22):
I, it kind of goes on and on doesn't it.

Alex Lindsay (01:49:24):
I, I got about halfway through the first one and I was like, okay, this is going too slow. Yeah. You, you just

Leo Laporte (01:49:28):
Feel like you sit and just watching the lads. There's some I

Alex Lindsay (01:49:31):
Was left was, what I was left with is, is John has his moments you know George is a hothead, John and George are both hot heads. Paul McCartney does most of the work and Ringo's just happy to be there. Yeah. <Laugh> that's right. That's

Leo Laporte (01:49:44):
What I was left with. That's really the bottom line. That's guy. He's happy

Alex Lindsay (01:49:47):
To be there, you know? And, and so, and so the so anyway, so, but, but the 8 0 8, it just shows this incredible, like, machine that you don't recognize until you see it. And I, I will, I'll ruin a little bit of the ending of it just because it's, you wanna watch the whole thing. But the, the thing that just is fascinating about this machine is, is that they only made, I won't tell you why they only made 3000 or only made 'em over three years, 15,000 of these over three years. And that's all that was ever made. And there's a reason for it. And you find out at the end, oh, that's, you have to go, you have to go watch it. And it's, and it's the most fascinating reason that you stopped making a device that was super successful, that I've ever scene, and you just have to watch it.

Alex Lindsay (01:50:28):
I won't ruin it. I was gonna ruin it. I'm not going to ruin it. It is. Is it on it is you have to buy it. Okay. I didn't pay for it. And, and, and I, but it's, it's worth it just to see this kind of, this evolution of, of how music kind of came together. And they've got, it's funny watching the Beastie boys, you know, talking about it because they don't really, the two guys that are left. Don't really understand how it worked. You know, Adam was the one that actually did all the work in that area. And so they're like, didn't that we do this. And then we did this. And he's like, no, we didn't do it that way. And oh, I don't remember, you know, like, this is, this is why we needed him. And so, so, and, and so it's a really fun it's a really fun, it's a really fun documentary. It's the drum track

Leo Laporte (01:51:06):
On sexual healing? Well, and talk about more Revere Whitney Houston. I wanna dance with

Alex Lindsay (01:51:12):
Somebody. Well, and they talk about the one with, with with Marvin gay. They said there was a guy in Belgium and he said, Marvin gay just came in. He programmed the whole, the whole song and then sang it and then left. And that was it. That, that was sexual healing. Like, it was like, there's nothing else there, except for he him in that in device. And, and, and then they said someone else bought it in Belgium. And they were like, oh, they hit the one of the presets. And it was, it was that it was a built-in preset. No. And it wasn't built in, no, it wasn't a built in, he had left it on the machine. He had left it on like what he had done on the machine. Okay. And, and then when they bought it, yeah. Someone told them that, oh, this was one, the one Marvin gay probably used.

Alex Lindsay (01:51:50):
And they were like, sure, whatever. And then when they hit the first preset that they had, that that was pre-programmed, that was not that someone had programmed into it. It was that song terrible. Anyway, it's just, it's a really and people trade them around again because there's not, they don't make now Baringer makes a new version. And what's funny is, so there's a Beringer makes the R eight, which is the re make of that. But the R eight mark two, which is coming out this at the end of the year what Behringers changing between the R eight and the R eight mark two is the thing that made them stop making them made, roll, and stop making them, you know. Oh, interesting. So, so anyway, there's, it's, there's a lot of intrigue it's worth watching and just this music is so much fun to watch like music documentaries, or, or just I watched

Leo Laporte (01:52:36):
The whole Beatles thing and there's actually three more, two and a half hours of just the guys

Alex Lindsay (01:52:40):
Noodling. Oh, that, that was not fun. It was a long, but I,

Leo Laporte (01:52:43):
But there are moments

Alex Lindsay (01:52:44):
Like enthusiasm for music <laugh> you don't like that either. Huh?

Leo Laporte (01:52:48):
I don't like that either. The, there are moments that it make the whole thing worthwhile. I mean, watching Paul noodle around writing, let it be. Yeah. Yeah. <Laugh>, that's kind of amazing to watch. So I really enjoy,

Alex Lindsay (01:53:00):
I just have these three chords. I think it's just piggy playing them over and over and over again, like, oh my God, he's writing let's oh my God. He doesn't know what he has yet. He's gonna, oh my God. It's it's think he could made a version. He could have made a version that was two hours long of all the footage and then made another version for people who really wanna watch the, the grass grow.

Leo Laporte (01:53:20):
Well, it's not, there's plenty. There's be movie. There's plenty of ways you can get your and a bridged version of the Beatles. But some, some hardcore fans like Peter Jackson, the guy who did it. Right. And I'll include myself. I'm, I'm watching it like a Hawk because there are these moments where you go, you have to, if you really know a lot of Beatles history too, there's a little bit of stuff in there. Yeah. Like, you know, at one point is it George Martin? Or maybe it's it. It's the it's the guy making the movie Michael hog hog. Oh God, you could always go back to the Philippines and they, and they go, oh, and they leave it at that. But if you know what happened in the Philippines, just like, oh yeah, you could.

Alex Lindsay (01:54:03):
So, and I did, I did admit, I did enjoy when they, when they rolled in the, the multi, the multi-track and, and, and George Harrison's like, but we gotta be careful with it. Cause it's 10. It's my, my it's cost 10,000 quid, 10,000 quids, you know, it's

Leo Laporte (01:54:16):
Mine. I let you my eight track cuz the cuz apparently EMI, wasn't willing to give him an eight track. Well,

Alex Lindsay (01:54:21):
And the funny thing is one of the guys, I guess one of their tech guys said he would build one from scratch. Yes. And, and, and, and I think George Martin said, we'd like to have one that actually works <laugh> yes. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:54:31):
So you got a little bit outta this.

Alex Lindsay (01:54:33):
I did, I did. I did. I did get it. There was just some point where it started to slow down. Like there was all these things in the beginning and then started slowing and I have to go back to it. I think maybe I was just in a, not in the mood for it. Maybe I had too much caffeine or something like that. And I, and I, I need to go back and watch it cuz there was a lot, I will say at that pace. I remember a lot of it. Like I remember like it's like I'm and you know, there's

Leo Laporte (01:54:51):
Lisa, you know, the needles better. She wanted to watch it, but she couldn't really take it either. You it's one of those things, Glen, John's the guy you're talking about the engineer. He said it's a bunch of garbage. But that's the, that's the movie I think he shows up in there. And it's very interesting for instance, as Paul's right. And let it be Glen Johns leans over says, you know, you should make that word. He changes a word. John says, oh yeah, that's good. You know, I means little things like that, that people I'm to me like a super fan are going. Right. Yeah. And the other thing I thought you'd be interested in is how they took 16 millimeter footage, Andre to 4k. And it really good.

Alex Lindsay (01:55:29):
What's really cool is, is what Peter Jackson's doing with the technology that he used for all these movies. The 19, the, the world war II film was unbelievable where they showed you, oh, wasn't that footage. I loved that. Yeah. And rebuilt it and re corrected it and, and put all that stuff back and then put sound effects back into it. And you really felt like you were just there, you know? And so, so I love what I love what Peter Jackson's doing with the, you know, doing something more interesting than just movies, you know? I think the movies are great. And I think that, what's interesting also he's a man

Leo Laporte (01:55:58):
Now he just sold wet us. So he's doing

Alex Lindsay (01:56:00):
Right well and well, and, and, and, and I think that, that technology, it's gonna be really interesting to see how that goes under the unity umbrella. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of really interesting things gonna happen there.

Leo Laporte (01:56:10):
Yeah. It's good for us since we're stuck with unity Mr. Andy and ACO your pick of the week 

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:18):
I got two cultural things to, to talk about. First of all, I joking around about great Gatsby and you, you it's okay for you to not like it. However, it's a perfect excuse for me to drop a YouTube link for you. A friend of mine, bill NA he he was one of the most cultured, most interesting people I ever met in my entire life. He was a sports writer for sports illustrated for decades. Specializing in, in is phrasing. His book secret

Leo Laporte (01:56:45):
Is incredible on

Andy Ihnatko (01:56:46):
Aria secretariat. He, he was, he was there when secretariat was born. He was there when secretariat died. He carried in his wallet for years and years and years, a, a feather from a secretariat stall that Saria just sort of like blew off of his nose and sort of landed on bill. And he kept in his wallet for years. And then, then of course he was at event mass work garden, the wall got stolen and he was just heartbroken about it. But he was, again, he was just one of the most amazing, amazing fellows. He, he died unfortunately in 2018, but one of his, if you went out with him and if there was any sort of a group around him, at some point in the evening, he would recite from memory the last page of the great GATS. No. And because, because he loved it so much. And his reading of it was a work of art in and of itself. And so there's a video of him giving one of the, these readings. And of course it's shot by Roger Rebert. So the cinematography is pretty okay. And it's, it's, it's perfectly okay for you to not let like the great Gaby. I don't think it's, and there were

Speaker 8 (01:57:41):
Hardly any lights except the shadow and moving glow, the ferryboat across the sound. And as the moon Monroes higher, the essential houses began to melt away until gradually I became aware of the old island here that flowered once for Dutch sailor's eyes, a fresh green breast of the new world, its vanished trees. The trees that had may way for Gatsby's house had once paned and whispers to the last and greatest of all human dreams for a transitory enchanted moment, man must have held his breath in the presence of this continent. And this is

Leo Laporte (01:58:14):
Why Alex Lindsay does not read fiction right there. <Laugh>

Alex Lindsay (01:58:19):
Not the end, the whole thing. The hope

Leo Laporte (01:58:22):
I bet you didn't even get to the end. I didn't get

Alex Lindsay (01:58:24):
To that part. I would've loved it if I'd seen it, but I was gone. I read, I got, I got to the last like 30 pages and I was like, they're not gonna test anything more. I'm just gonna rethink and, and, and I'm gonna, I'm done. I'm done with this. I

Andy Ihnatko (01:58:35):
Did Alex, Alex, I did the exact same thing. It was, it was, it was one of those novels. It was the wrong time for me as a teenager. And as, particularly as something that I was supposed to read, or I could go to the Brookline Booksmith and give them a dollar and a half and they'll sell me a little like yellow book <laugh> will explain what the book is. So I don't have to do it. And many, I used that to get to couldn't afford the cliff notes. I went, I went for the Monarch notes. Oh, Monarch. Even better. Yes. That sort of thing. What's the other pick, but yeah, but the other pick is my, the, my vote for the best single Christmas album that in existence, Ella Fitzgerald wishes you a swinging Christmas. Agree to me, to me it's there are a lot of great ones out there.

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:12):
This is my nomination for the greatest one. If you listen to this from start to finish, that will put you right in the December mood. No, no matter what, your, no matter what holidays you observe or don't observe, this will put you in a pretty good swing and mood. I, I recommended it last year and I keep kept getting so many people like contact me. Oh my God. And that, that is the greatest album ever. Thank you so much for recommend recommending it. So I wanted to make sure that this on December, December Eve, <laugh> we get that new people's cue as early as possible. It's on that's it's obvious on all streaming services, apple, apple music, plus has it. Everyone has it. And, but yeah, it's great. Rene Ritchie pick of the week.

Rene Ritchie (01:59:49):
So this is weird. It's Disney plus, and I know a lot of people are super familiar with, we were just talking about a lot of the properties, apple plus what's

Andy Ihnatko (01:59:55):
Disney plus

Rene Ritchie (01:59:57):
Disney plus is Disney's streaming service available and increasing amount of places. And unlike a lot of companies, Disney resisted the urge to sub license out everything that they possibly could. So they have a rather unified library. I mean, like try to find star Trek internationally. And it's a huge brew haha. Because they tried to extract every penny of sub licensing they could from it. But chances are, if you go to Disney plus you'll find Marvel, you'll find star wars, you'll find the Muppets. You'll find like everything you expect from you also find the beat

Andy Ihnatko (02:00:23):
By the way. I don't know if they own the Beatles, but that's where get back

Rene Ritchie (02:00:25):
Is well, I mean they had the money to give it to Peter Jackson to get some Beatles. Maybe that's that these things are, are virtuous cycle. But one of the things that I found really interesting, and I know some people, especially like including some people who I usually respect right on this panel, aren't the biggest fan of the way that a lot of this content is serialized, but I was watching some of the newer stuff. Like they've just thought out the, for the book of Bobba, which is a new Bobba Fe show with Tim Morrison coming out over the holidays. And the Hawkeye show has just started, which has a real Christmas E sort of diehard vibe. And it's, it occurred to me that we don't really get serialized content on this scale in north America anymore. We used to, I mean, famously star wars and Indiana Jones were based on those, those Saturday morning cereals that you'd go to and there'd be the ongoing adventures of Superman and, and all sorts of things every week.

Rene Ritchie (02:01:09):
And of course in Asia, they're huge. Like some people have real trouble with a lot of Asian narrative fiction because it doesn't end. It's just perpetual adventures, like journey to the west or you know, the I, the iron crane or the deer in the cauldron. It's just like things just keep on going and you pick up whenever you want. And I'm not gonna say they're soap operas. I'm not gonna not say they're tele AVEs, but they do have this thing where the stories grow and get richer and you do get lost. You do get found. You have some that you love some that you hate, but they're doing something that's sort of unprecedented is they're they're doing it at Hollywood scale. So you have these shows and these movies and the more you watch of them, the, the richer, the sort of experience becomes, and I'm not gonna spoil anything.

Rene Ritchie (02:01:49):
But if you got to the finale of the last series of the Mandalorian, like people of my generation are just like, totally lose it. Like you can go watch the YouTube videos of people reacting to that. And it's because they've chanced upon these, these directors, these producers, people like John FAU and Dave Fallon and Kevin FAHE who really love the source material respected enough to treat it. Well. They don't just look at it as, as exploitable IP and they've woven these stories and the book of Bobba fat looks fantastic. I know some people are tired of tattooing, but I mean like you, you hear salacious Chrome laugh and you're like, right back in return of the Jedi and Hawkeye, the setup is this young girl who lost everything. Her last memory was seeing him save the city in the first Avengers movie. And it ties into who she becomes beginning of these movies and the sort of payoffs that you can get.

Rene Ritchie (02:02:43):
I'm not gonna go on much longer, but it, there was a scene in, in Batman beyond years ago where old Bruce Wayne thinks the new Batman is in trouble and puts on the armor one last time and you can't get to that emotion if you didn't watch the original Batman, the animated way back in the day. So they've really found this and some wins some lose, but there's a reward to be had, and there's no better time than the holidays because all of it is just there and just streaming Shahi just arrived. So you can watch all of this stuff now in IMAX experience, which is pretty good. I watched a, a bunch of them over the last week. So if you haven't yet, it's, it's a good time to go and just watch your way through all the star wars and Marvel. So if that's up there,

Leo Laporte (02:03:21):
I guess I deserve this, cuz I spent too much time talking about the Beatles. <Laugh> sorry, that's my punishment.

Alex Lindsay (02:03:29):
<Laugh> I

Rene Ritchie (02:03:30):
Was seeing WAU books, Leo, and it occurred to me like it just cuz we don't have that in Western culture. And I love that. I love woo. Like all those, those Chinese stories so much that I, I realize we do in fact have that

Leo Laporte (02:03:39):
I will watch Shi you you're right. I

Alex Lindsay (02:03:41):
Should. It's really good. Yeah. It, I, I, it was a really good movie. We, we really enjoyed Shahi and, and it, I will say that the, the series is probably what we're gonna see is the future is we're gonna see less and less feature releases. They'll they'll still happen. But I think that we're gonna, because

Leo Laporte (02:03:56):
Don't, they make more money though, on a feature, if

Alex Lindsay (02:03:58):
It's a hit not if you're no holding onto subscribers is way more valuable. It's way more predictable. Okay. And way more valuable than that's what they're, I mean, that's all the math, the math is having, you know, holding subscribers to your service yeah. Is, is way more predictable. You know, like you are looking at all these people on the rock, you know, hitting the rocks with their boats, you know, trying to release these, these films. And I think everyone's pretty clear that the behavior is not gonna go back to where it was before, you know, when we go back to it. And so the, the era of the, the, the golden age of the feature film is probably over, you know, and, and I think that the, the, it doesn't mean that there won't be any, like, radio's still here, you know, like we still have theaters, you know, like it's not, but, but it will be different.

Alex Lindsay (02:04:39):
And it'll probably be much, much fewer screens much fewer releases. And most of the, because when you put all the money into the actors and you put all the money into all of the sets and everything else stretching it out over six hours or eight hours, and then putting it out slowly so that people can watch it over time. Just the ROI is on, on a predictable ROI of a hundred million people paying seven bucks a a month or whatever is it's really good. You know, it's, it's, you know, it's a lot of money I

Leo Laporte (02:05:06):
Owe you Andy for this pick of the week, it was your pick of the week. But I finally got a Merry Christmas present from Kevin Noki and I'm very excited. He actually sent me a bonus gift. So I'll show you both of these. You mentioned this a couple of weeks ago and I immediately ran to Etsy and bought it. And he ran it through his entire print run. This is the they call it the Delta pie, which is a raspberry pie case designed for the raspberry five, four. That looks exactly like <laugh>. Well, something you might, you might recognize it it's Kevin. You did. Yeah. There's is now

Andy Ihnatko (02:05:47):

Leo Laporte (02:05:49):
Design my problem is I don't have a raspberry PI four and I can't get one cuz they're,

Andy Ihnatko (02:05:55):
You know, I got, as soon as soon as my, I came, I, I like thought what turned out to be like, must be the last resp got the last one I can find anywhere. Yeah. And I'm waiting, I'm waiting for like deadlines to like loose their hold of my such a beautiful.

Leo Laporte (02:06:08):
And he even has a fan in it and wires it up so that you can have a light on the front when it turns on. And,

Andy Ihnatko (02:06:13):
And also so that the power switch will actually work raspberry pies. Don't have an actual like power switch. You just unplug them. Brilliant. Unless you have a hardware switch yeah. And software that does it. Yeah. So it's just, thank you. Kevin has the right texture. There's yeah. There's there's no like 3d printing lines. It has that sort Sandy, it feels sort of like texture to it. Perfect for the logo is as close as he could make it without getting super, super, I think it's an ACOR with, by the nutshell pie. Yeah. But yeah, it it's and also raspberry pies are just plain fun. It's like, it's great to have this thing on your desktop, cuz you're an apple nut and by the way, you can easily put an emulator on. And so it will run anything that a fraud it's era's its great Mac can run. It probably runs

Leo Laporte (02:06:52):
Well as, as that Mac God's probably, is that a two FX or is it a two CI or what do you, what is it exactly? I would, I would

Andy Ihnatko (02:07:00):
Probably say two SI two SI because I actually, I actually have a two CI actually in, in the other room there and the other two SI is more of like a mini tower sorted design. Right, right. This looks more like a like kind like a smaller version. Yeah. But it's so perfect. It reminds me how much I really like frog designs. Well look

Leo Laporte (02:07:20):
And I didn't even order this. He sent me this. This might look a little familiar to you. Yes. <laugh> this is the original apple Mac mouse, which I had, but it's a real mouse. It's an optical mouse built into a 3d case. I don't see that. He's still selling these Kevin, I guess. You've you sold out, you sold out of them.

Andy Ihnatko (02:07:40):
He's not, he's not even on the Etsy store.

Leo Laporte (02:07:42):
No. Oh these are the coolest things ever. Yep. It looks just like my Mac, my 128 K Mac mouse.

Andy Ihnatko (02:07:52):
It's an optical mouse. Right? When you get, when you have this thing, I, I haven't built up this yet, but I do he, he did send me like the mouse as well. But I had that up. I had that up and running and it's like, oh my God, I'm in junior high or high school again. Yeah. Want knowing that I will never ever be able to afford this thing at this computer store, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay here as long as, as long as I can, before they kick me at out, it is

Leo Laporte (02:08:16):
Now the official studio mouse. I'm plugging it in. We're throwing away this old wireless mouse. I will be using this mouse from now on one button, but I'll manage I'll survive somehow. Exactly. Kevin, thank you. He is still selling actually this mouse is not on. So let me turn on so I can click things. He is not selling the mouse, unfortunately, but I bet you, if we, if we talk nicely to him, he'll, he'll sell

Andy Ihnatko (02:08:45):
It's it's, it's an, it's an Etsy product, which means that he'll, he he'll make a run and then he'll stop making a run for a while. But if you keep like coming back at some point, you'll see, oh, I I'm making eight more or so pleased by please buy these immediately. I think, I think he has these actually available in limited.

Leo Laporte (02:09:01):
He does. He does. Does so No key one N O K IO, N E the price has gone up a little bit. I noticed

Andy Ihnatko (02:09:09):
Price is up, but I, but again, this is not, Hey, I just do. I downloaded this 3d file from thing averse and I printed it off my No, this is, this is handcrafted. This is as good as you could possibly hope for this to be worth every penny, if you like this sort of stuff, I guess just a beautiful thing.

Leo Laporte (02:09:25):
Yeah. Thank you, Kevin. Merry Christmas. See you too, sir. Christmas came early to this quit east side studios. Thank you, Andy. NACO. When are you gonna be on G H next?

Andy Ihnatko (02:09:38):
A little late this week. I'm on Friday at 1:20 PM, but you can stream me live or

Leo Laporte (02:09:45):
Very nice. Alex Lindsay, office You guys just blowing me away. What'd you cook this weekend or did

Alex Lindsay (02:09:53):
You cook? We had a, we had a week off. It was, it was Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving. We're taking a this this coming week. We're gonna move, we're moving to Sundays for our cooking. So that I can go to the farmer's market on Saturday with my daughter. Oh. So anyway, so that, so the but, but the I mean, it's, it's gotten to be surreal. We we've had, we had we've started to have people show up in our after hours that I can't say on the air, but you just go, I can't believe this. Person's hanging out with us on, in after hours. And so, so it's really getting interesting. We're I'm designing on Mondays. I'm designing my, my new studio. I'm rebuilding the room here. And so we're I just having this big conversation about what we put in it, and everyone gives me

Leo Laporte (02:10:33):
Advice office hours. Like you should change this over here, move this over there. Office. See a lot of that hours global. And of course you can hire Alex to build your studio at oh nine. Oh, do oh, Oh, oh, Renee Richie, Richie. What are you working on?

Rene Ritchie (02:10:52):
I am working on a re-review of the iPhone 13 series and then the MacBook pro that should both

Leo Laporte (02:10:57):
Be out this week. Has your opinion changed?

Rene Ritchie (02:11:01):
No. I mean, there, there are things that I like and things that I don't like and things that I thought I wouldn't like, like getting pro re off of an iPhone without having something faster than a USB 2.0 connection is proving really, really painful. But the battery life is astounding, so right. There's a lot of good and a lot of bad. And I wanna make sure I cover both of them.

Leo Laporte (02:11:15):
Did I make a mistake staying with my iPhone 12?

Rene Ritchie (02:11:20):
I mean like, it depends on what's a priority for you. If, if the battery life is good enough, then it's fine. If you really want longer battery life where you want 120 Hertz display. Depends what your pain points are. Leo.

Leo Laporte (02:11:28):
Yeah. My pain point is writing a thousand dollars check is my pain point. <Laugh> well, you

Rene Ritchie (02:11:34):
Did. Lisa's got that phone. You, you can go compare and see how

Leo Laporte (02:11:36):
Compelling it is to you. She, she deserves it. She's earned it. I am gonna stick here with my Rasberry. Well, I'm just saying like, you can

Rene Ritchie (02:11:41):
Compare and see if it's a compelling enough difference for

Leo Laporte (02:11:43):
You. Yeah, I can. And I have Rene Ritchie is at We are MacBreak Weekly. The show is every Tuesday, 11:00 AM 2:00 PM. Eastern eight, 1900. Now 1900 UTC. You could tune in and watch us People were watch live often chat live in IRC at There's also a great discord channel for MacBreak Weekly viewers, but you must be a Club TWiT member. Have I mentioned club lately, club TWI is I think the best deal in podcasting. I don't care what Apple says. Seven bucks a month gets you a <laugh> little gassy. Actually. <Laugh> a free versions of all of our shows plus access to the Discord, which is more than just a show chat. It's chat about every topic. Stacy does a book club there. We have an Untitled Linux show in there, and those shows by the way, also make it to the TWiT plus feed that's bonus content thinks you wouldn't hear necessarily on the podcasts if you're interested.

Leo Laporte (02:12:44):
And we sure appreciate our wonderful members. All you have to do is go to TWI, some very exciting stuff coming up in the next couple of weeks and months on the Club TWiT court and the feeds. So join now be good Christmas gift for somebody. And if you just want one show ad free, I should mention this apple does offer 2 99 per month per show subscription. So you can, if you're using apple podcasts, you can pay for one show and get ad-free versions of this show or any show you like after the fact, everybody can download ad supported versions of our shows from the website, In this case, If you like ads, you can get even more. If you go to, we put the video of the show up there as well. You can also subscribe of course, in your favorite podcast player. In fact, that's probably the best way to get it, so you get it automatically. And if you do do that, please, by the way, please leave us a five star review and that way we'll we'll all benefit. More people can learn and maybe someday apple will even acknowledge us as a podcast. It it's only been 15 years. Thank you everybody. For joining us. We'll see you next time. Now get back to work. Cause break time is over. Bye bye.

Mikah Sargent (02:14:05):
Hey, you don't have to wait till the weekend to get the tech news you need. Join Jason Howell and myself, Mikah Sargent, for Tech News Weekly, where we talk to and about the people making and breaking the tech news.

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