MacBreak Weekly 892 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for Mac Break Weekly. We started a little early this time and Alex is still not here, but he's coming, I promise, along with Jason, nell and Andy and Ako, and, of course, everybody's very excited. Apple has announced an event for next week. What will scary fast mean? What can we expect to see the hardware, the software, the speeds and the chips all coming up next? On Mac Break Weekly. This is Mac Break Weekly Episode 892, recorded Tuesday, october 24th 2023. Scary fast.

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It's time for Mac Break Weekly, the show we cover the latest news from Apple. Oh, I love this week. I love this week. We are starting a little bit early and Alex Lindsay has not yet woken up. He's going to eat his Wheaties and as soon as he's here we'll have him join us. But Andy and I can't remember we were going to start an hour early. Hi, andy, g-b-h-g, boston, you know.

0:02:13 - Andy Ihnatko
Justin Case, I didn't go to bed last night. I'm not like just just straight out and oversleep. It's not early. You know, my Tuesdays are planned to the micron man.

0:02:21 - Leo Laporte
And Jason Snell is here from sixcolorscom. His heart is still pounding after getting the email.

0:02:27 - Jason Snell
Oh yeah, that's right. Well, I came back from a run my heart was already pounding and then I opened my email. By the way, alex the tribe has spoken. It's time for you to go.

0:02:35 - Leo Laporte
The tribe has spoken.

0:02:37 - Jason Snell
His monitor is even gone.

0:02:39 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, we did. Believe me, we don't waste any time. Strike Alex off the island, there he is.

0:02:45 - Jason Snell
It's going to be nice, he's over there.

0:02:48 - Leo Laporte
If at any point he shows up, we'll move him back.

0:02:50 - Andy Ihnatko
And you, and you are absolutely right to do that, Mr LaPorte.

0:02:54 - Leo Laporte
Good thinking I'm not coming.

0:02:57 - Andy Ihnatko
I have given you our full support, mr LaPorte, absolutely Mr LaPorte, yep.

0:03:02 - Leo Laporte
So Apple I think this is unprecedented. It has announced an October 30th evening event and it even has a spooky. Oh, it's not an event Like you're not going.

0:03:16 - Jason Snell
Yeah, You're not. Well, there's no, it's, it's. Yeah, it's just a video release.

0:03:21 - Leo Laporte
Exactly. Yeah, wow, they sure got a lot of attention for that. So at five o'clock Pacific time on October 30th, apple's going to release a video. There's the spooky pumpkin picture. I do hope Tim Cook shows up and costume.

0:03:35 - Jason Snell
It's a macOS face, though we know what that means, right? Yeah, that's the giveaway, mac. There's a Mac announcement here.

0:03:41 - Andy Ihnatko
So, mark, it's been a while since we've seen that logo in that in official Apple communications, haven't we? So maybe it really is like the ghost of the ghost of trademarks past, it's the apocaso.

0:03:50 - Leo Laporte
It needs to be renewed Mac profile, full on thing. I thought it was interesting that Mark Gurman, right before Twitter, like in the morning on Sunday, and his power on newsletter, said oh, and by the way, there's going to be an event. It's either the 30th or the 31st. Yeah, it was like wow.

0:04:10 - Jason Snell
I heard from um, from the retail, from my retail sources, similarly, that there are a bunch of um setups that they have to do when they bring new products into the store and that that retail chain, you know stores were being told to to stay, stay late, basically on certain nights, and sort of the end of next week and the end of the following week. And I thought, oh well, clearly something has happened in there. All those reports in the supply from the, from this retail chain, actually that the um, that that I'm X and macro pros are not so much in stock right now, and these are all signs that there's going to be a turnover. But I'm surprised because that spooky speed, spooky fast, right, like implication here is that this is going to be the M three and maybe even an M three pro, who knows which. I was sort of writing off the idea that we get the M three this year, but it sounds like um, maybe not, maybe not.

0:05:02 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, it's weird Cause sometimes. Sometimes when you you look at what are they going to be releasing definitely in the first quarter of next year or what's what's kind of company that has to happen in January. But sometimes it's like, okay, they're not. Maybe they're not selling as many iPhone 15s as they thought they would. They need a burst of consumer sales so that this quarter's report looks as it looks pretty good. So, who knows, it's like it's. It's hard to imagine people getting particularly excited about an M three pro like in late October, but okay.

0:05:32 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I don't. I think this is not about the stock price, or is it? I mean that's.

0:05:36 - Jason Snell
It seems like you don't get two days of sales or no, would you get any? Well, it would be for for holiday quarter right, you're going to get November and December.

You're going to get two months of it? Um, it is, I don't know. I mean, I doubt Mac sales are going to appreciably offset anything the iPhone does, right, just because of the scale of it. But, um, I do think that Apple uh, you know, if they have new Macs that they think might sell in the holiday quarter, either as presents or just because people want them and they want to do a rollout, I think Apple seems to be they don't like to hold onto things that are ready to go.

I think we talked last week about that weird Apple pencil announcement and the fact that it didn't seem to make sense, given the 10th generation iPad, and I've spent the last week thinking why did they even release that 10th generation iPad when they had, you know, the accessory wasn't ready yet. I mean, the answer is because it was ready, and I think that that Apple, like they've got other fish to fry, they got other products to make Um, they don't seem to want to hold on to a done product for six months or four months or whatever it is. Plus, holiday quarter is the best quarter for them. People are buying stuff then. So, if they've got a new iMac, if they've got new MacBook Pros, which is those are very popular products. Maybe now's the time.

0:06:49 - Andy Ihnatko
And I suppose you also catch people, you catch corporate environments that are like, okay, we've got $8,000 left in the budget that we don't spend, we're going to lose, so you may as well just eat that up. Right, it's? I mean it's it's. There's so many factors and it's hard to imagine, but it's just on my mind that CNBC and the other like financial uh outlets have been reporting about how, uh, like, all the way across the board, apple and Apple and every other manufacturer is in a huge slump, particularly for laptops. Um, the whole bunch of stories associated with Tim Cook's visit to China last week about how, ooh, now they're starting to discount the, the uh, the iPhone 15 because they're not getting at least the initial buzz that they were hoping for. So I mean, these are just things that are on the sort of on the radar and, as usual, this is it's our job to to guess and to speculate, especially when we've got one week before another event.

0:07:40 - Leo Laporte
The last time Apple had an October event was two years ago, in 2021. It was on October 18th and they announced a MacBook Pro with M1 Pro or M1 Max, new AirPods and the HomePod mini. So um, I'm also thinking about.

0:07:58 - Jason Snell
They did a either late October or early November event in 2019. So right before the pandemic and cause, I remember flying out to New York for that and you know they have their Soho loft set thing that they do, where they bring people in, and that was the. That was a big MacBook Pro update. So there are precedents for doing the MacBook Pro update in you know this timeframe and and so you know they've done it before and it's not unexpected. And you know it seems a little weird of like what's under the tree, it's a pro laptop. But you know, in the end I think Andy's right the the idea of spending money at the end of the year, whether it's under the tree or whether it's in your budget, is not a bad thing.

0:08:40 - Andy Ihnatko
And the other thing that's kind of that's kind of interesting here. And this is where this is where I wish Alex were here to talk about. You know events in general that they could have just dropped the video you know there.

0:08:52 - Leo Laporte
So they're asking for every they're asking for yeah, but if they did that, would we be spending the next hour talking about it.

0:09:01 - Andy Ihnatko
I think it's more about preparation that they want people to clear this week in their editorial calendar because we're going to have new hardware to talk about. But it's, it's, it's. I just I'm always curious about what the new math is about saying do we actually have? Are we actually going to say, look, we're going to have a small event, that's a live thing, and we're going to have people, we're going to have some demo area. So if you need to get like your shots of the hardware, you don't necessarily have to be on that list of people who are going to get like one on one, like hotel suite demonstrations, it's. It's weird. Like I said, I had to look at it twice to make sure I understood that. No, they are. They are just saying that there will be a new video available for streaming on this date. So if you're curious, make, make, book, book, book your plans to be at your desk.

0:09:48 - Jason Snell
Yeah, this time and this date. The truth is, most of apples, all apples events are pre-tape videos now and they're all streamed at a time. Occasionally they have people come for WWDC and the iPhone event, but otherwise this is what Apple events are now and I I guess my answer would be you don't want to undermine it right and have it be something that's a nothing. But if you have the power to get people hyped up a week in advance for a video drop, then you know as a, why would you not? As a PR, a marketing agency, why would you not do that? So here they are.

0:10:22 - Andy Ihnatko
It works for Taylor Swift. Maybe it could work for us.

0:10:24 - Jason Snell
We live in right, it's a YouTube premiere.

0:10:26 - Leo Laporte
Depressing to me is I didn't even get an invite to sit at my desk and watch the video. It's like they hate me so much they didn't even bother to do that. So, okay, fine, I knew about it, though I have friends. I have friends who get the emails I like Zach Hall at nine to five max headline. I'm going to just read it straight out A scary fast event on Monday night. That has to be for M3 max, not M2, right.

0:10:53 - Jason Snell
Right. I have a hard time imagining that they would say scary fast and have it be an M2, imac, right. Which I was thinking yesterday like maybe this is just a kind of an afterthought, cleaning up, kind of thing that they're they're planning. We didn't know if there was an event, but like what are they going to do?

0:11:08 - Leo Laporte
when I thought I think even German said oh, it's going to be M2s, it's not good M2.

0:11:11 - Jason Snell
But but here's the thing, and last yesterday I was, I was formulating on the upgrade podcast, like what would the MacBook announcement even be? And I thought maybe they just fix that low end MacBook Pro and make it more decent and like a mega MacBook Air and and still have it be an M2 or maybe an M2 Pro and that's all. But like, the one thing hanging out there was, why are the MacBook Pros in short supply? Why is that? And I'll point out also, apple has never. I realize there's only been two iterations, but in the Apple Silicon era, apple has never launched the Mx and then and the Mx Pro simultaneously. Right, that hasn't happened and this sounds like that's going to happen. Right, that this isn't just going to be M3, because if it's the MacBook Pro, surely it's also the M3 Pro and M3 Macs. And that's really unusual in the in the, you know again, not very long history of Apple Silicon, for them to do that, because you got the sense that they started small and then expanded and maybe not, maybe not.

0:12:13 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, it is. It is the phrase scary fast that makes something that was okay. I bet it could be A, b and C and maybe we'll see D, but the fact that they're committing to the word scary fast it's okay. Now I don't know, especially especially because there's been so much speculation about the release schedule for the M3 chip. A lot of people I'm not just talking, you know the commentators when I'm talking about like analysts who are trying to direct investment guidance on what they think the release path, is essentially putting a lot of faith in the idea that this is not the time for them to release the M3s, particularly if they don't know if they're going to have a problem with supply or not If they are releasing an M3 or an M3 Pro. That means that whatever problems that people were reporting above over the past two or three months either weren't as bad as those reporters and analysts thought they were, or Apple is now confident that they can at least sell as many as as are going to be asked for.

0:13:10 - Jason Snell
I do wonder. One thing that excites me about the iMac as a possibility here is first off, iMac only was ever M1, right, Hasn't been updated in a long time. If we're talking about M3 and if we're really talking about MacBook Pros, which means we're talking about M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max chips, it leaves us with the possibility that they will do something with the iMac that they never did after they did that initial M1 drop, which is, make an iMac that you could opt to get as an M1 Pro, like you do with the Mac Mini. Wouldn't that be great? Like I think one of the real knocks on that iMac is that when it was released, it was the first M1. It was vanilla, but that's okay. It was a good start.

But they didn't offer any kind of upward expansion and there were rumors Mark Gurman talked about them that they have talked about doing a bigger, more professional iMac and it just kind of gets kicked down the road. They'll do it eventually, but they haven't made it a priority. But, like, there are some people who all they really want is an iMac, but they need more than the base model chip can give them, and so that's. I'm really excited about the possibility that there will be a higher profile option, a build to order option for an iMac. That'll let you get that 24-inch iMac with a M3 Pro in it. That would be sweet. Are you ruling out the larger?

0:14:21 - Leo Laporte
screen.

0:14:23 - Jason Snell
Based on Mark Gurman's reports, it sounds like it's just not a thing that they're willing to do until I think he said 25. Like it's not even close. So it would be a real shocker. If they did it, that would be great. That would be great news for a lot of people. As somebody who has an iMac Pro behind me, I love the big Pro iMac.

0:14:41 - Leo Laporte
The thing that's important to point out is that nobody kind of really predicted this event until a few days ago. This is kind of out of nowhere, and M3 yields at TSMC have been we've heard of course, nobody's talking on the record, but we've heard it have been problematic. We also know that the iPhone 15 Pro Max does not have the top of the line M3 node. It's kind of a weird half-breed kind of an M3. Or it's obviously not an A. They call it A17, but we're all talking the same chips here. So I'm wondering. I think this is unexpected. So I don't. I think we maybe don't know at all what they're going to do, except that it's got to be a Mac and it's going to be scary fast.

0:15:29 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, I can't imagine them putting a top chip in an iMac. I just can't figure that out. But then there's a question of okay, so you're going to make turbocharged Mac minis, or are you going to reserve these for the Mac Pro? And okay, m3 Mac Pro, excuse me, m3 Pro Mac Pro makes a lot of sense. But again, if you're having, if they're having limitations on how many of these chips they can put out, what is going to give them the most bang for the buck in terms of, like, how much money are we going to hand over just to get that silicon in that device? And would it necessarily be an iMac rather than something that is a little bit more associated with something zippy or something sporty or something available in Ferrari Red?

0:16:13 - Jason Snell
I don't know. I think this is it's the first step in that. Right and keep in mind, the M3 Pro is not the fast chip, right, and the M3 Max is not even the fast chip. It would be the M3 Ultra. The M3 Pro is already in the Mac Mini. You know it's there, you know you get a little more, but it's not the whole thing. And then in the laptops you can choose the Pro or you can choose the the Macs. So it would be akin to the Mac Mini Move if they did it in the iMac. Obviously, the focus is going to be, if it's truly the Mac Pro at the high end, going all the way up to the M3 Max chip. That's where your spooky fast, scary fast is going to be happening and that's what people are going to be talking about. But I think I love the idea that that Apple might let the Mac Mini and the iMac have a little more than the base model if you pay extra for it.

0:17:08 - Leo Laporte
So this is the. This is and maybe I'm getting this wrong. This is from PC Gamer when the new iPhones came out. Apple's new iPhone chip has us worried about TSMC's three millimeter silicon and next gen GPUs, because it's only about 10% faster and hardly any more transistors. Is it the N3 node, though? And I think I'd seen other in other places that it isn't maybe the ultimate N3 node, that it was an interim node. That's where I'm coming from on this, so that I mean, obviously Apple's not going to say and we have no, the N3 node processor, they're going to, they're going to just talk about. You know, they're going to have those silly graphs, but we but I think we need to read between the lines and see what's out there and I wonder what yield, what kind of yields they're getting, and so forth.

0:17:55 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, and just to just to clarify something that I was talking about earlier, that even I sometimes have to remind myself that just because the number is three as opposed to the number two, that doesn't necessarily mean this is a revolutionary leap forward in power and process.

0:18:14 - Leo Laporte
Well, and it is the N3B, which is what's in the iPhone is not, and so that's that's why we're interested, as Jason pointed out.

0:18:21 - Andy Ihnatko
As Jason pointed out, there's, there's, there's not one, two, three. It's nothing pro and ultra. Those are the ones that you kind of get interested in.

0:18:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and the iPhone was not the beneficiary of that, and that led people to say, well, maybe the yields are low, which then led people to think maybe there won't be new M3 Max this year. But clearly, well, maybe not clearly Apparently, we they may have been wrong. So how about the screens? Are we going to see on the iMac? Are we going to see OLED or mini LED, or what? Are we going to see? A better screen?

0:18:52 - Jason Snell
No, I think it's going to be that same four and a half K 21 inch or 24 inch panel that they've, that they've got, which is a really nice panel, and since they don't seem to be, and and the displays on the Macbook pros are obviously just already spectacular, so I think I can't imagine. These are both recently redesigned pieces of hardware, so it sounds like the story here is going to be the chips and that that is the. I mean, there is a school of thought that the M3 is going to be a bigger leap than the M2 was, because that's what I thought I was waiting for, and one.

M2 is a package and then M3, regardless of I would say regardless of what process TSMC is using. That it's their first sort of, like you know, tick talk kind of approach, like that M2 pushed it forward a little bit, but that M3 is going to be a little more aggressive about that. But who knows, it could also just be a linear move from one, two and three, because the the iPhone chips seem fairly linear, but they often have little extras in the works for those pro and max chips.

0:19:52 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, Also, whenever Apple makes a leap to OLED on the, on the MacBook, that's going to be like a big announcement, but that's going to be where they go. They want to have people in there. They're going to want to have people to see this thing in person. That's not going to be. Hey, we're dropping video. Good luck, Goodbye, See you next year.

0:20:09 - Leo Laporte
So there's N3B, which is what's in the iPhone, there's N3E and then there's going to NB. N3p is in Paul, which is an optical shrink of the N3E, so as underwhelming perhaps in terms of the the speed bump, the N3B was it's. We'll be interested. I'll be very interested to see what they do. Incidentally, we're going to get more clarification on this. One of the reasons we're starting early is that Qualcomm has a big event in about an hour and a half at which they're going to have to snapdragon X, which is, in effect, their response to Apple Silicon. Everybody, intel and now we hear Nvidia and of course, qualcomm are trying to get parity with Apple Silicon. It really leapfrogged the current processes, so particularly in wearables, yeah, so we'll be watching that at noon.

We're going to try to get Ryan Shradd on. Ryan has now left Intel, thank goodness. Ryan was, of course, a host of PC this weekend. And computer what was it? Computer hardware, what did I forget? We called Twitch and is an expert in chip and so forth. So he is actually at the snapdragon event. We'll get his commentary and I'm very curious what he knows about TSMC as well. Hey, goodness we were able to tear Alex away from office hours.

0:21:33 - Alex Lindsay
I'm afraid that I didn't get the schedule properly in my calendar and so someone I got this, I got a couple texts that all came in and said hey, they're going to start without you. I was like what? And I was like, oh, I was in a meeting. I was in a meeting. I just said I was in the middle of meeting and I was like I got to go.

0:21:50 - Leo Laporte
No well, thank you, but that wasn't us. We were going to pull you in as soon as you got here. And yeah, the reason we're starting an hour early is because of the snapdragon event at noon our time.

0:22:01 - Alex Lindsay
I think that one of the things that's going to be really hard for the other companies is that Apple has the advantage of the OS, the hardware, the chips. It's one thing to develop ARM chips. It's another thing to integrate them with all the other hardware and the OS and everything else, and that becomes for other companies it becomes a big negotiation. So there's a lot of like everyone having to have lots of meetings and Apple just decides where it wants to go, and so that's going to be a real pacing problem that everyone's still going to have. But I'm really glad that they're moving that direction and I think it's good for everyone. But I think that that's going to continue to be the challenge that they have in that area.

0:22:37 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, no, I think that this. What's interesting is, qualcomm and Microsoft seem to be in very tight collaboration, and Windows on ARM, which some of us are running on Apple Silicon, runs quite well on Apple Silicon, so there's some thought about that. There's also this whole AI angle and having AI built into chips, and I suspect that's what the snapdragon X is going to be. We'll see, we'll find out. Alex, are you excited? We've been talking about scary fast.

0:23:08 - Alex Lindsay
Whatever that turns out to be, I'm excited, yeah, yeah. So it's always a good opportunity. It'll be really interesting to see. When they say scary fast, I think that Apple would probably. If they weren't taking a more aggressive stance, they would probably not say that in the promotion. So I have a feeling that we're going to see a pretty big speed bump in that process. So it could be a. Yeah, you don't say scary fast, if it's just slightly faster.

0:23:35 - Leo Laporte
If it's 20% more.

0:23:36 - Alex Lindsay
if they say scary fast is 20% more, we're going to be like mmm, but it's like a pumpkin.

0:23:47 - Jason Snell
They'll have it under a sheet with ghost eyes in it, and then they'll pull it off and go oh, it's a Mac Scary.

0:23:53 - Andy Ihnatko
Has Tim Cook melded out enough that he might do it in costume like a dead pool costume, without the mask or something?

0:23:59 - Jason Snell
Man, we can only hope. That would be pretty funny. That would be his story, I wonder if they'll make something about the night event. And it'll be, Because that's Jaws. Right, Jaws is Apple's Batman. All of the demos they do are in the daytime, and then they go to Jaws and he's like in a dark somewhere and he's like whoa. So maybe it'll be Jaws. Jaws is Lair his Batcave.

0:24:18 - Leo Laporte
He pulls off the mask and it's Ryan Reynolds all along. Oh my God.

0:24:22 - Jason Snell
Him, and him and Johnny Sruji, who lives in the Batcave down below, johnny.

0:24:26 - Leo Laporte
he's actually in a cave, apparently.

0:24:28 - Jason Snell
I have very complicated. Apple extended universe thoughts about the continuity of all those events.

0:24:34 - Andy Ihnatko
We will be, of course. Hanging on the handle was a titanium hook bonded with a exclusive aluminum process. That has never been done before.

0:24:42 - Leo Laporte
Even though I was not invited, we will be watching. I'm sorry, apple, you can't stop me from watching.

0:24:48 - Alex Lindsay
Is there anyone? Is anyone going? There's no, okay, so.

0:24:52 - Leo Laporte
Jason says, and I think this is confirmed by everybody else, it's not an in person event at all.

0:24:57 - Jason Snell
It is just a release of video. There's nothing going on in Cupertino as far as I can tell you.

0:25:02 - Alex Lindsay
That's one of the big luxuries as a person that works on events. When you see Monday events you're like, oh, they're streaming it because it's.

0:25:08 - Leo Laporte
Nobody wants to work Monday.

0:25:09 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, well, it's the problem with.

0:25:11 - Jason Snell
Monday.

0:25:13 - Alex Lindsay
You're forcing people to fly on Sunday and you're also from a pure event perspective. You're paying union scale at double time on Sunday and so most events don't happen on Sundays because you don't want to pay. There's a real premium to Mondays are real premium because it means that people are on site on Sunday and you're paying a lot of money for that. So that's why you see a lot of stuff on Tuesday. So when you see Monday, that's the luxury that we never got when we were For most. You almost never see a big promo on Mondays because of that, unless it's part of a larger conference. That is already heavy.

0:25:47 - Andy Ihnatko
Come to think of it, that's also just two or three days before their earnings call. On the second, I don't know how much time they want to give the team to meditate before they are live in a earnings call, but that's certainly a complication that they would love to be able to do without, I'm guessing.

0:26:03 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, the live streaming, a pre-recorded video, not very stressful Compared to actually doing a live event, so it's definitely a big step forward.

0:26:18 - Andy Ihnatko
It's not just a live event, it's also We've been seeing previous events in which it is really all pre-recorded, but Tim Koch and the rest of the team, they're there and they're shmoos and they're mingling and they're giving people the 10 minutes they want on video and they're giving them the selfies they want. So I have no idea, but I think that's interesting.

0:26:35 - Alex Lindsay
That's just a few days before the earnings call, and doing that at the level that Apple does it at is hard. Like you know, even in their own space it's a lot of. They pay a lot of attention to a lot of little details.

0:26:51 - Leo Laporte
So what do we think? So we've been talking about an iMac and, of course, because Lisa just bought the 24-inch M1 iMac, I'm pretty sure that's what's going to come out. What else? The M3 version? What else do we think? 14 and 16, that seems to be based on possibly.

0:27:10 - Jason Snell
Maybe they'll fix that 13 and make it proper. I still am a believer that there will come a time, with that 13-inch model that they're keeping down there to hold down the price list, we'll get a little bit of a refurb and look more like a bulky MacBook Air a little bit, rather than the Touch Bar design that I mean. It's missing MagSafe it shouldn't exist anymore. So will they take this opportunity to redesign it or will they not mention it at all? It'll stay on the price list until sometime next year when they'll do that. So it's possible they could do 13, 14, 16, but best guess is it'll be the iMac and the 14 and the 16 MacBook Pro and it'll be a chip bump and that the bulk of the event will be what that invitation suggests, which is, let's talk about our chip prowess and let's unveil the M3, right, like the M3 generation. It would not surprise me if that is. The core focus of all of this is just to talk about what the next generation of Mac chips is going to enable.

0:28:04 - Alex Lindsay
And I wonder whether at some point, if they start to align everything like an iPhone, where there's lots of different iPhones and we release them all at one time I wonder if we get some at some point we get to a point where we can say there are lots of Macs and we're going to release all the new Macs at one. We used to do that.

0:28:21 - Leo Laporte
Like Apple would like to do those things, like maybe three events an iPhone event, a Mac event and an iPad event and just update all three. But do they want to get on a yearly cadence on everything? I maybe not Look how long it's taken to update the iMac. They don't want to do that every year.

0:28:38 - Jason Snell
And before you got here, alex, I made the comment that I think Apple likes to release products when they're done and not hang on to them for a long time. And the truth is, we think of Apple as this enormous company, and it is, but their product design and tooling and that whole thing. They can't drop all the new Macs at once, they just can't. They have to spread them out. They do 18 months and then they do different releases for different things. And I think, to answer your question, would they like it if they could just pull the sheet back and say next year's Macs are all here, right, and I can see? Yes, they would, but they can't.

0:29:15 - Alex Lindsay
I can see them doing the iMac and with the Mac books, and then have an iPad event and then, at WWDC, having the mini studio Mac Pro, you know, or the V. The only question I have is whether they want to spend more time on the V you know, the Vision Pro next, you know, at WWDC and less time on pretty much talking about anything else. Right?

0:29:40 - Jason Snell
Also, let's keep in mind the M3 Pro. If this is M3 Pro and M3 Macs, those chips are used mostly in MacBook Pro, right? Like Apple primarily sells laptops and among desktops, I mean they sell Mac studios and I guess a few Mac Pros and some Mac minis and some iMacs, right? But I bet you the iMac is the most popular desktop that sold and it's a fraction of the Mac sold because primarily it's laptops. It's like three quarters laptops.

So if you're going to have a coming out party for the M3 Pro and Macs and what they're about, you could do it as they've done it the last couple of times with the studio, but the studio will still be there to talk about the Ultra. But, like Pro and Macs, the most important thing to do is MacBook Pro. It's the right time to boast about that and I think that's what I'm, that's the vibe I'm getting here is get ready for Johnny Sruji and his chip guys to boast about all the amazing things they've dropped into the M3 and M3 Pro and M3 Macs and here's how we, how we run Resolve.

Yeah, exactly On a laptop.

0:30:44 - Alex Lindsay
On a laptop.

0:30:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, exactly so. Thank goodness Mac rumors has their buyers guide because it really helps me keep an eye on when release dates are. It's been 494 days since the 13-inch MacBook Pro was released. It was released in WWDC in 2022. On the other hand, the 14 and the 16s, it's only been 280 days. It's not even been a full year yet, and the shortest turnaround in recorded memory, at least according to Mac rumors was 176 days in 2019, although in 2016, it was 221 days. So it's not unprecedented to release a new one before the whole year is out.

0:31:26 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, and I think that one of the things that'll be interesting you know, apple has their own or they have the FCP, the Final Cut Pro Summit that's happening in the middle of November and it's interesting to see you know whether the I don't think that. I think that the summit was probably not not driving the hardware release. I think the hardware release, the summit's running a little later in the year than it normally does. Normally it runs in right about this time and so the fact that it's a couple of weeks later than normal they might be looking at showing off what that, what the performance opportunities are related to the Final Cut Pro.

0:32:02 - Leo Laporte
And, as you pointed out, the Vision Pro is coming soon. I don't think I think we're going to hear about it. They said early 2024, like maybe even January.

0:32:11 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, so I think so.

0:32:12 - Leo Laporte
January is when they released the 14th and 16th of this year. It's January, so maybe they are move going to slide those back a little bit. Make room for the Vision Pro. Yeah.

0:32:22 - Jason Snell
The way this falls off cycle is that the M1 and M2 did start, like I said, with that base model chip and then they brought the pros along later, and this, if this is what we think it is, that's not going to happen this time and, as a result, you end up with the MacBook Pro being a you know, basically less than a year, instead of being on an 18 month cycle, and that's that's interesting. I wonder what motivated that and if the if they were just getting their sea legs with Apple Silicon, with M1 and M2, and this process is spitting out pros and maxes right now, so they might as well get it out there. I don't know, but but I can't wait to see it.

0:32:59 - Alex Lindsay
You get into. They've had this problem in the past. We get into this weird TikTok where the lower end machines are faster than the higher end machines, which is what would happen. Right, the pro is only in M2. That gets frustrating. If that's why, like if you release the low end stuff first with the M3s and then you come out six months later with it you have potentially and this is the the first time this happened was really the G3 and the G4, which is that the G3, they put a larger L2 cache on and suddenly it was performing better than the G4. And so you had the high end machines being outperformed by the low end machines, and and so I think that the that that you could see this and it's just frustrating. You're like my laptop is faster than my pro, you know, and that's a. I think that that's a. That's a hard pill to swallow when people pay a lot of money for the pros, and so I don't know if that's a great user experience to do that, but it may be what it is.

0:33:47 - Jason Snell
Yeah, that's computers right. I mean they're always going out of. They're always going out of the date. It's just, that's computer. Well, that's why you hold on to the.

0:33:53 - Leo Laporte
Ultra, maybe because the Ultra is what's in the Mac Pro. You do the, the, the you. You say yeah, you save it for yeah and they'll do.

0:34:02 - Jason Snell
I'm going to going to bet that they're going to do a Mac studio, a Mac pro update next year and it's just going to be M3 Ultra right. Like and and that'll be. That'll be great Right.

0:34:12 - Leo Laporte
But, and how about the mini? Do we think there'll be a mini next Monday?

0:34:16 - Jason Snell
Yeah, yeah, oh mini. The rumors aren't for the mini next Monday, but I'm sure they will do it and it'll be the same. Well, it's not because it's the iMac, I'm I'm guessing the mini will be about the same profile as the iMac, though in terms of the chips, but if you know so, maybe I don't see it, or maybe more.

0:34:31 - Alex Lindsay
I have a lot of Mac minis of a stack of them right here and I don't think that much about like I'm not. If it was an M3, it wouldn't speed up my purchase cycle at all. Like it's not. They're really fast and I'm doing a lot of great things with it.

0:34:44 - Leo Laporte
Fast enough is the key, not scary fast, but fast enough.

0:34:47 - Jason Snell
And the iMac is M1,. Right, the iMac is the one Mac that needs to be updated because, it's just way it is. Literally it was the first way of M1s, so it's the it's as old as Apple Silicon is old it's 907 days according to Mac. Yeah, so it's it's time for that one and the mini. You're right, the mini will come and those of us who used to buy Mac I mean Alex knows this too used to be a very long time between Mac mini updates. So we can wait.

We can wait a little bit, it's fine. It's fine in the MacBook Air. Mark German had a report that he thinks of that sort of like a spring or maybe even summer, and then they'll do an M3 of the air in both sizes and get that back on schedule and that'll be very popular too. But I want to take a break.

0:35:32 - Leo Laporte
And when we come back, I want to talk specs. I want to get your speculation on the specs Not those specs, the other specs. I want to find out what we're, what we're going to be looking at with this new, potentially M3 chip. Won't it be sad, won't be disappointing, if it's just a M2, ultra and stuff. That's not. It's going to be an M3. Hold that thought.

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Mirocom slash podcast. I mean, it is clearly the leader in this space, miro M-I-R-Ocom slash podcast. Thank you so much for their support Of Macbook Weekly. All right, now I'll tell you what Gurman says. He says the next generation, at the top end, the next generation Macbook Pro, will include 40 graphics cores, 16 main processing cores. He does also say don't expect a Macbook Air this time. That'll be next year. They did just update the Airs. I know because I just bought one and it makes me mad because what I really want is a M3 Pro 14-inch MacBook Pro. What does that mean to you, alex? 40 graphics cores, is that? I mean, this is part of the problem they have with these chips. They don't support NVIDIA or AMD. They don't support discrete graphics cards.

0:39:28 - Alex Lindsay
I don't know if they need to. I mean, you know, I think there's definitely things that you can only do if you have those graphics cards, because they're written to the cards. But there are a lot of advantages of having a lot of RAM sloshing around that can be shared by the graphics cores as well as the CPU cores. So I think that that's a. So having a lot of graphics cores, you know, obviously is going to speed up not just your 3D graphics but also speeding up things like Resolve, final Cut, other you know graphics applications Also, the kind of thing that you can throw into even just the very basic.

I mean, at some point you start taking advantage of run of the mill systems. But I think that when it comes to games, when it comes to 3D software, when it comes to doing a lot of the even just heavy 2D software, the graphics cores start to come into play and as you look at even just developing for AR, there's a lot of calculations that are done. So when you think about photogrammetry, those graphics cores come into play and having a lot of RAM available for the photogrammetry is really important. And so having all of that RAM available and then having lots of cores means we're able to generate 3D models from, you know, from photographs.

0:40:40 - Leo Laporte
And that is explained that this is because of Apple's unified memory architecture, that the RAM that is available to your processor is also available to your graphics and can be used in its entirety.

0:40:51 - Alex Lindsay
So when you see graphics, discrete graphics cards, and they say you know 32 gigs of RAM, that's all they can use whatever the RAM is on the card, but in the case of the Macintosh they can use the entire system memory, and what's interesting about that is that there are certain operations that you can do in parallel, so you can do all these operas, and that's what a graphics card is really good at is doing a whole bunch of things all at the same time, which greatly speeds things up, whereas there are some things that have to be done in a more managed way, which is what a CPU is really good at.

And when you have both of them sharing the same RAM, it also means that they can shift back and forth very, very fast, and so I can do this part where I can, and then I can take advantage of the other side of it, and so it's very, very efficient.

And I think that and the software is really not caught up, hasn't caught up for the most part. There are a handful of companies like Zoom, of all companies, that have really taken like they work with. They're squeezing every little bit out of that chip, and we see it being able to put eight you know this is like being able to put eight, 10 and EP streams out of one little Mac mini is is squeezing all the quality that exists in that chip out the other door, out the door, but not many companies are taking full advantage of that. Yet, and as we start to see companies writing to that, writing to the, to the, to the APIs that Apple's giving them, they're going to see more and more of those advantages to those chips. But we're just seeing the very beginning of that right now.

0:42:20 - Leo Laporte
The current, if I spec out, the top of the line MacBook pro is a 12 core CPU, a 38 core GPU and, by the way, mark did not mention the neural engine, but this is one area where Apple really has a lead on others, now that AI is so hot the 16, 16 core neural engine, which is its AI chip.

0:42:41 - Alex Lindsay
And the other thing that it'll be interesting to see is if any of these start to. There's there, you know there's. You're starting to see AV one decoders and seeing if these computers start getting a lot of AV one encoders, cause that also means that there, if the if you have discrete chips capable of the AV one, you know, encoding and decoding it, it will greatly affect again things like video conferencing, but also what you can stream and how you and how you put those together. So being able to encode it back into AV one will also be an interesting. We're seeing some of these discrete chips. Of course, pro res is already there for a lot of the pro pieces of hardware, so these dedicated chips like the neural engine are pretty interesting.

0:43:21 - Leo Laporte
Also, I know, if I order this 14 inch MacBook Pro with a high end BTO specs, it won't be available till November 16th.

0:43:29 - Jason Snell
Well, that's. The thing is the availability is vanishing for a real good reason, right Like that's the giveaway yeah.

So I did. Um, when the iPhone pro came out, I looked at the new chips, right Cause this is the first time that we've seen them from this chip generation. And the truth is, with Apple Silicon, a core is a core is a core. If you look at the like a 16 and the M two at the CPU core, the CPU core is we'll get the same score in a benchmark and the GPU core will get the same score. These things are not a totally different core for the Mac than from the iPhone and the iPad. It's just not true. They haven't done that. Apple will never do that, because it doesn't. Why would you build two different cores?

Everything Apple does with new chips is scale.

So, yeah, it's more GPU cores and even more of them on the high end, and you also, in that, are in that situation where there's binning so that the, the pro will have fewer and then and the max will have more.

But really they're all just trying to make the max and some of them get uh deep, you know, marked down to be a cheaper, slightly less functional pro chip, and then the ultra is just two maxes, uh, attached to each other. So you could see that Apple's trying to. It's very Apple right. It's like they're only one company. They do a lot, so they try to reuse wherever they can. The other mystery and this is the stuff that will make Alex lean forward if they announce it is they they throw stuff in, so like they threw a bunch of video uh encoder and decoder stuff into the uh M one pro and then it was in the M two and the M two pro, and that's the other thing to hold back is, in addition to just like how many cores, how many GPU cores, how many CPU cores, how many neural engines all of that kind of stuff will be, do they have a little extra one?

0:45:20 - Alex Lindsay
And like, for instance, if you were, if you encode a pro res on one of these machines that has the pro res chip, it is lightning fast.

0:45:26 - Jason Snell
Yes, Even the M two, like in a MacBook Air, has that. That was a pro feature in M one that became just part of them too. So that's something to look for is like those are the wildcards right? We know we could. Probably, based on Mark German's reports, you could probably guess within a very small percentage of what the benchmark scores will be for these computers. Right, but we won't know some of the details, like will the M three support multiple external displays? That's been a problem with M one and M two, with people who use two external displays have been unhappy. Will it be the case, or will they continue to withhold that feature and put it at the higher end? Are there some very special pro focused encoder, decoders, other things going on on that chip or AI focused? That we don't. We don't know about that. They're going to roll in on silicon because, again, if you put it on silicon it is way faster than having to run it in software on the CPU or the GPU One.

0:46:19 - Alex Lindsay
And again, not withstanding the, the old, the ultra, which is those you know, basically doubling up for the other ones, there's not. They're going to put a lot of that into the same chips, because what differentiates the machines is not really the chip, that. What differentiates the machines are the subsystems that support that chip. I mean, it is so you're the it's. How many lanes of Thunderbolt do you have? How many? You know? Like you know, those types of things are things that you know. How many Thunderbolt ports do you have at all? You know, and heat dissipation and fans, and so on and so forth. So these are all. So those things are, but the chips themselves are.

0:46:51 - Jason Snell
They want to keep them as similar as possible, as Jason said, because it makes it simple recycle the Apple is real good at recycling, but they also they also are real good at scaling, and you know what's the difference between a Mac chip and an iPhone chip really is more right More CPU cores, more GPU cores, more support for memory stuff like that, that, that that just sort of scales. But something to watch for is if they make claims about like, oh, and we've also thrown in this thing and you know some of those pro features.

That's where they go. Is they do dedicated pro hardware on those high end chips because it lets them be so much faster than they would be if if they didn't?

0:47:31 - Alex Lindsay
do it. Just the fan in the studio, you know, makes a big difference and the and and the other thing. I think it's so clean because, like they'll just tell you, fly out of the studio and the pro are the same computer, except one has a whole bunch more lanes and it's got places for cards and it's gotten across this much more. But it's there. Otherwise they're the same machine, you know, and they just there's a kind of, there's an alligance to that. Yeah, I really like that.

0:47:54 - Leo Laporte
So let me understand. You say they're binning it. In effect, tsmc, the Taiwan Silicon manufacturing company which makes these chips, makes a wafer with all the same chips on it. Right, this is just the three nanometer M3 chip. Then they test them and, depending on cause, it cause. Unfortunately, there it's not a perfect manufacturing process. There will be some dead chips on there, but there'll also be some chips where not all the cores are functional or or reliable at temperature or not all the GPUs are there or reliable at temperature, and they'll bin those. They'll say, okay, now we have an M3, now we have an M3 pro, now we have an M3 max, maybe even now we have an M3 ultra. Right, they're not. They're not different waivers for each model, or are they?

0:48:39 - Jason Snell
The M3 is different. It's the pro and the max that that are basically binned.

0:48:46 - Leo Laporte
So there's an M3 nothing wafer and then there's a high end M3, and then they will bin those based on pro max and ultra.

0:48:54 - Jason Snell
Right and ultra, I think, is also from that same wafer, but they have the those interconnects that they build in and so if they get two really good maxes, together those get cut out and turn into an ultra. So there's really the low end and the high end chips and that's how they do it, and then within there they can do some, they can do some binning. But like, yeah, the pro and the max should be basically the same.

0:49:17 - Alex Lindsay
And the ones that, the ones that really don't work. They just put them in the Apple TV and call it a day.

0:49:23 - Leo Laporte
Actually remember that was part of the the sweetheart deal that TSMC did for Apple. Normally the manufacturer the manufacturer does not eat the cost of the non-functional chips, but in this case TSMC said, yeah, if they don't work, you know we won't charge you for them. So there's I don't know what they're going into the bit bucket With 512. In our IRC says the M2 Pro GPU 19 core is 6.8 teraflops and is it the case that you double that? You go to 40 core? You can, you can double that speed. Is it going to be closer?

0:49:55 - Jason Snell
You take a penalty right, it's always. Every time you increase it. It's not a two X, it's not a hundred percent efficiency.

0:49:59 - Leo Laporte
Okay, but but you could be talking 14 teraflops here, something 13 teraflops.

0:50:07 - Jason Snell
Which again I mean Apple isn't winning the max GPU output war in computers, right, it's not. What it is winning is the output power ratio thing, right. And for a laptop that's really important because you can you can buy like you will probably be able to buy a PC laptop that has way better graphics performance than than these new Macbook pros. It's, you know, huge asterisk right, because it'll be only on power with very loud fans blowing, and if you unplug it it has to power down and all those things. And then these Apple Silicon Macs they just run and it doesn't matter whether they're plugged in or not, and they might blow fans, but not particularly hard, and you know that's good for a laptop. So that's because Apple's whole legacy at this point is chip designed for mobile devices, and so the more they can scale it, the better. It's great. But let's also just remember that it's not necessarily that they're the best at graphics, it's just they're the best at performance per watt, basically.

0:51:09 - Leo Laporte
So Ming-Chi Guo, of course, had to weigh in. Oh, yeah, yeah, there's going to be an event. He says he's expecting multiple M3 chips rather than just a single one, hitting at the possibility of an M3, m3 pro and M3 max. I think we've, we already thought that, right? So, and I don't you know, this sounds like him just saying yeah, yeah, I knew that, yeah, I knew that, as opposed to my sources are telling me, but I can't read Chinese, so even pro versus max, if they remain a binned chip.

0:51:43 - Jason Snell
I mean they're not two different chips, right? The difference is that Apple has decided there's brand or simply they're simplifying the branding, right? Because on the Intel side and back when there were Intel max, it was always like do you want the eight core or the 10 core or the 12 core or the 14 core? And Apple has tried to simplify that to a certain degree, where they're sort of like here's the collection you get in pro and here's the collection you get in max. And there are core variations, but they've tried to keep it. They've tried to keep it simpler, if they can.

0:52:11 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, by the way, quote was the guy who said, ah, they're not going to do MacBook pros in 2023. So he's just, he's playing catch up at this point.

0:52:21 - Jason Snell
He's a supply chain, and here's the funny thing about somebody like being to quote, who has very good supply chain sources. But the problem is his information is limited and then he has to fill in the blanks with narrative or guesses or whatever, so like if these new MacBook pros are identical to the old MacBook pros and that all that's different about them is the chip that's inside of them. He and his sources probably can't tell right, they can't tell that there's a new MacBook pro.

0:52:48 - Leo Laporte
It looks just like the old MacBook pro.

0:52:49 - Jason Snell
And if a new iMac looks more or less exactly like the old iMac, going through the supply chain, they won't know. They won't know the difference so that's something to keep in mind with the people who have supply chain sources is that sometimes they get fooled because unless there's a physical difference or a major like a part difference where they have to buy a whole new part, put it in this computer, if you miss, if you don't see that, they don't see anything.

0:53:13 - Leo Laporte
That's the limitation of a supply chain source. Yeah, mark's sources both include supply chain, but also Cupertino, which is a lot harder to get information out of, and probably, given what you said about the retail sources, some retail sources as well, that's actually a good place to look. That's clever.

0:53:32 - Jason Snell
So, yeah, I mean, retail obviously is there, they know what they're doing. Retail employees are going to you know, but you don't know the details. Right Again, you just like, oh, I think something's going to happen. The problem is, they could be stringing Christmas lights, right Like, really, they could be putting up turkeys. Yeah, Come in and let's put some pumpkins in the window which is why which is why sometimes it's the shortages that are the real tell, not like are they doing?

something in the stores. It's like are they running out of IMAX because they're not making that IMAX anymore? There you go. That's a tell.

0:54:02 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, okay, and we don't think. Well, we don't know. Will there be other things at this thing on Monday night? Will there be other? Will there be Apple? I would like to see pumpkin shaped home minis, but maybe not.

0:54:20 - Alex Lindsay
I don't know. I do think it's interesting that they're doing it at five o'clock in the afternoon, you know, and they why do you think that is Alex? It's after it's well, I think it's safely after trading. Yeah, and that's usually the reason you put something at the end of the day, but why would they?

0:54:35 - Leo Laporte
care, I mean this is going to hurt Apple stock price.

0:54:40 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know. It's a very. It gets it out of the news cycle, like it, for whatever reason. Yeah, that's odd, isn't it? It's an odd thing to. It feels like they just want to get it out, but there's other things they want to talk about.

0:54:52 - Leo Laporte
I'm thrilled cause I could sleep in on Monday and I can still do it.

0:54:55 - Alex Lindsay
It's very odd cause you can put it anywhere you want, because you're not you know. It just seems like it's the oddest time. I don't think they've ever done a five o'clock Pacific standard time release ever. So maybe there's experimenting and see what happens. Give the evening crowd a chance to watch it live. Maybe it's more for China cause, remember, you know I mean it is an Asian market release that would be in the morning, the morning, a comfortable morning, the morning for China, yeah, yeah, or India, I.

0:55:28 - Leo Laporte
What is the time zone difference for India? Maybe not for India. It's too early for India, a little early for India.

0:55:33 - Alex Lindsay
But it would be just right for Asia. Yeah, I think it's. I think India with daylight savings. I can never remember, but it's like I think it's 12 and a half hours off or something.

0:55:44 - Leo Laporte
And Samsung does night events because of it's in Korea, because of the time. So, yeah, I don't know if it's trading. I mean you can, you could do it at 4pm, for if it was.

0:55:54 - Alex Lindsay
I know the seems to make actually more sense when you think about it. Yeah, yeah, Making that available.

0:56:01 - Leo Laporte
It's 8am and it'll be oh yeah, and you just froze. What is it 8am in China? Yeah, it's like really interesting stuff. Well, I'm glad it's just I'm excited we will cover it. I'm inviting all of you, if you would like, to join us 5pm on Monday. I'll bring tacos and it sounds good. I'm there. It's taco Monday.

0:56:27 - Alex Lindsay
That hasn't been copyrighted, so we can take taco Monday. We won't get sued.

0:56:31 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, the guy who owns taco Tuesday, by the way, has given up and said that you can have it, it's fine, the world can have it. He literally. There's some little taco shop somewhere in the Midwest that owns it and taco Just like Jonas Salk saying, hey, I this belongs to the benefit of the world. It's very much like that. Giving the polio vaccine to the world yeah, very much like that here.

0:56:53 - Andy Ihnatko
I do, I do, I do. I do wonder if they're going to use any of this time during the event to talk about like killers of the flower moon or F1 or Napoleon or all the other.

0:56:59 - Leo Laporte
They've got all these great stuff coming. They've got a lot of moons coming up.

0:57:03 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, they're going into theaters like they're not just though a nominal release and a nominal release and a few theaters to get nominated for, to get it qualified for the Oscars, it's like, no, they're doing 3000, 3000 theaters through paramount. So I don't know that it's. It's certainly a certainly a place for them to like to sort of flex. Hey, here's, here's exactly how much we're stretching our tentacles these days. It's please, please, please, buy some popcorn, because we got a lot of money. I'll get to this for for our for our.

0:57:34 - Alex Lindsay
Well, I think that I think that one of the things that that Apple is proving is that their model might have been the best one, which is that, hey, we're not going to make 1000 pieces of content every year, we might just make X. You know a fraction of that, and but we're going to do them really well. I have to say that I keep on watching. You know, when I watch Apple shows and Apple movies, I'm just caught up with I get. I get a little distracted by the production quality. Like it's so high, it's too good it is. It is like it is so high all the time and it's just like cause there's, there's shots and it's just the way. You just see how they're constructed and and what it would take to do that. As someone who does this, you look at it and you're just like, wow, they spent a lot of money on that shot. Like like it just. You know, like it just. I can't stop thinking about how much money they're putting into into these, into these individual shows. They're just so well done.

0:58:26 - Leo Laporte
Well. So I can totally see At the very end saying oh, by the way, here's a trailer for killer of the flower flower moon, or or maybe it'd be. Really, I'd be really thrilled if this is it. Oh, and, by the way, starting in 2026, we own F one. I would, I would love to see that too. Um, this, by the way, this broke today.

Taco Bell's battle to free taco Tuesday trademark is officially over. That guy right there, gregory Gregory, owner of Gregory's what else is he going to call it? Mr? In New Jersey it was the other guy. There were two people. In July, a regional chain, taco John's, abandoned its trademark registration, but Gregory Gregory was not given in. I don't know, I don't understand. He said Taco Bell makes us look bad for Gregory's restaurant and bar. Taco Tuesday brought a lot of pride over the past 40 years, says Gregory Gregory. Relinquishing the trademark registration doesn't change that, but it does allow others in New Jersey the same opportunity to build their own traditions and spread Taco Thursday throughout the state. So it's over. It's over. Our national nightmare is over. Taco Tuesday has now been freed for all of us to use.

0:59:47 - Andy Ihnatko
We're going to speak with the house. We can't agree.

0:59:49 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, we can't get a speaker of the house, but we can definitely solve the Taco Tuesday crisis and Taco Fridays in Sweden are okay.

0:59:57 - Jason Snell
Is it Friday in Sweden Taco? Yeah you go. I went to Sweden and they're like oh, we love tacos. What, how, what, and apparently that's the thing that in in in Sweden on Friday it's a cozy Taco, home Friday Taco.

1:00:11 - Leo Laporte
Friday Taco Friday in Sweden. Is it a real taco If it has pineapple, peanuts and cucumbers on it?

1:00:17 - Jason Snell
I'm not going to shame anybody for putting whatever they want in there. There's no pineapple on pizza, it's pineapple on pizza.

1:00:26 - Andy Ihnatko
We've just come together and you're trying to break us apart and I stand with Sweden. About the media is absolutely right. I'm disillusioned.

1:00:34 - Leo Laporte
Let's take a little break. Great to have an early version of Mac break weekly. If you're just joining us, you missed the first hour, but you can go back, because it's a podcast, and watch our discussion of the Apple event coming Monday, 5pm Pacific. We will 8pm Eastern. We will be, of course, streaming what do I call it? We'll? We'll stream a version of watching the video together with you.

1:01:00 - Andy Ihnatko
Commentary track live reaction video. It's hot now.

1:01:03 - Leo Laporte
It's oh yeah, this is. Maybe I should bring in some five year olds and have five year olds react to Apple. Oh, alex, are you going to do the office hours? 5pm office hours watching the event.

1:01:14 - Alex Lindsay
I'd like to hang out with you on this one for this one.

1:01:17 - Leo Laporte
But you know what If you want to bring office hours people with you, please, we could do a joint, a joint simulcast.

1:01:24 - Alex Lindsay
Let's figure that out. We'll figure out how to get a crossover episode. I would like to hang out with all of you here on for the show and then I'll go talk to folks and after off, but we'll get them to all watch the show here.

1:01:35 - Leo Laporte
Now here's the most important question Should we wear costumes? It is the day before Halloween.

1:01:43 - Alex Lindsay
You know, I'm, I don't have any more, I have so many costumes.

1:01:50 - Leo Laporte
I'll leave that to you. You can come as you are or not. Our show today brought to you by oh, I love my sheets. You know I've been traveling and I have to say so. The plane landed Saturday night late at night. I'm ready to go home. I'm just missed my bed, missed my, my lovely wife. But, boy, when I got in those sheets, my lovely wife had to take the second, to take the back position because I was on my Brooklinons again. Maybe I should get moms some Brooklinons.

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1:05:02 - Alex Lindsay
It's different, it's just different. You know, it's definitely the way to do it on a Mac, like if you're doing it on a Mac, you can write metal, yeah, yeah, and you need to.

The one thing that, talking to folks who are doing a lot of the development, the one thing that they'll tell you if the folks that are getting the most out of the hardware, they're working with Apple as a developer, with their developer input, and they're doing it exactly what Apple tells them to do, it Like they're not getting creative. When they get creative and try to write their own, they're not getting anywhere near the same performance. So, allowing it to abstract that process and use this, what it allows it to do is scale up and down with the hardware, because now Apple has this little piece in between that allows it to become much more efficient. And so when people are really working with Apple to do that, when they think they have it figured out and they do it on their own, they're not getting the same efficiencies. When they're getting, when they're working with Apple to really squeeze that out and writing to metal, they are getting a lot of performance and they feel like they just keep on opening up new boxes of performance inside of these M series chips and so.

But it does take really allowing Apple to do the parts that that are gonna. You know that that that they're that Apple's taking over. You know, for that part, because it allows you, because the chip is very complicated, you have to go back and forth between the CPU and GPU. There's a lot of other subsystems and you want the OS to smartly hand you back what that looks like. But there's a certain level of trust that people have to have and you know a lot of companies did not do that in the past. Yeah, you know, so that you know part of the challenge.

1:06:37 - Leo Laporte
Apple, for some reason, seems to have decided they want gaming on the Mac. I mean they own gaming on mobile. I don't mean it's a Mac mini.

1:06:48 - Alex Lindsay
Many would do a really good game machine. Yeah, you know, so there's. I mean, if you look at the, you know you look at those things it could be. It's, it's hard. I think that I think Apple has to figure. I mean, everybody always needs a product to get, to get them out that door, and Apple, I don't think has found that product yet.

1:07:03 - Leo Laporte
I also think it's tough. Pc gamers are a hardcore bunch and you know you have to go after. Pc gamers specifically Listen to just listen to, just released in order to get people to donate blood. They said if 666 pints of blood are donated, we're going to release, we're going to give away a case that's made of blood. I mean, this is a crazy bunch, these PC gamers wasteful. That seems like a bad idea, I think. Probably just a little bit of blood, maybe just a little tiny bit of blood. It's a blood red case.

1:07:30 - Alex Lindsay
I think that there's always. You know there's, there's always a couple groups and the group that's hardcore PC gamer. I don't think that that's really a viable market for Apple like I don't think that that's what I'm saying is, you can't say we're now the new gaming desktop.

PC. There's a lot of people who haven't really gone into that market. I mean, it's still a pretty, it's big and, yeah, you can fill a stadium once at a time. You know you can't like do it like football, like you do it in a whole bunch of stadiums every weekend. So there's still an awful lot of growth that's available in gaming. It's just that the gamers you know the gamers have a. You know that it's a significant market, but it's not by any means over half the country or something like it's that are that are that are building these PCs, and so there's still an open market there.

It's just a matter of deciding. You know what you're going to open that up to. I think that they're the game that gets Apple out the door is not going to be a game that a traditional PC gamer is going to go oh, that's the, the answer to everything I always wanted. That's the best, you know. Whatever, I think it's going to be a typically Apple's, appleized, simple, simplified game, yeah, but but something that takes full advantage of the graphics systems and so on, so forth, and I think that the advantage that Apple has is the ability to build a game that could seamlessly scale from the phone to the pro.

1:08:48 - Leo Laporte
So you're saying you're not going to try to lure existing AAA titles or AAA developers to port their stuff to the Mac. You're saying something written specifically for the Mac and that might be an interesting idea.

1:09:00 - Alex Lindsay
I think that that's the. I mean because Apple has arcade and they do pie games, you know like it's. It's not like it's out of the question to build it, it's just a matter of figuring out what that game is. And fundamentally, I mean, I think that the weak point for most games is that they're actually the gamers love them, but they're not approachable in a lot of ways, you know, by an average person. You're not bringing in new people.

1:09:21 - Leo Laporte
They're complex, in fact, as these games appeal more and more to serious gamers. They appeal less and less to normal people, because they become so complicated and difficult.

1:09:31 - Alex Lindsay
I played a lot of games and, like I played, marathon a lot like when I was younger, you old man, you played a lot of so much marathon and you know, and, and the thing is that I don't care about any of the story, like we just played the arena you know, and we played a lot of marathon arena on the tech TV set as well, yeah, so like playing.

Playing arena is, and you could build something that was just an arena and it could be just one arena and you build it into a bigger game. What makes a lot of sports whether it's European football or American football or baseball or lot or basketball or hockey it's something that you can kind of get your arms around and see what's going on all the time and that's not what you get out of games, and so I think that there's a lot of opportunity to build different kinds of games and you know, then you throw a big like prize on it. You'll pull a lot of PC gamers if they feel like they can make a million dollars like, like, taking you know like playing hard Apple.

1:10:23 - Leo Laporte
We were talking about the neural processor. One place Apple has an advantage is all of their hardware now has AI processing built into it, unlike PCs or, and well, some Android devices. The Google Pixel, because it's got their own chip in it, has a as a NPU equivalent in there, but that might be interesting for Apple to do something with AI they have. I don't know how long this advantage will last. It's one of the reasons we're going to watch this Snapdragon event in a couple hours about an hour because, again, that's coming to PCs.

1:10:56 - Alex Lindsay
The big advantage of the games is again, the I think Apple could take advantage of and they're not taking advantage of now is something that you could release a product across everything from Apple TV and the phone all the way.

That's a good pro, yeah, and allow it to just keep scaling. So like, for instance, there's a lot of things that you can't do in real time unless you really build for it. So you know anti-aliasing depth of field, some motion blur, a lot of those you know kind of processes that a pro with an ultra with tons and tons of RAM might be able to pull off, but a but a phone couldn't do. But you could easily have it or relatively easily have a level of detail that just keeps moving back and forth between those. So everyone's playing on the same platform against each other. It just keeps scaling up what it can do based on what your hardware can do, and that's something that you know we don't. I mean PCs do that to some degree, but they're still. You know it's hard because you're building across many, many PCs in many, many configurations where Apple has a lot more control over that pipeline.

1:11:56 - Andy Ihnatko
Interesting point but the question. The question is, though, is that, is it really a good and is it worth? Is it is the most bang for the investment from Apple to get triple A style games on the phone, triple A style games on the Mac? They made $50 billion off of gaming on the iPhone last year, off of 80 something billion dollars total sales, total revenue from the app store, and these weren't like triple A type game.

1:12:23 - Leo Laporte
They're casual games, but that's interesting.

1:12:25 - Jason Snell
That's a very good stat that explains Apple's sudden in.

1:12:28 - Leo Laporte
That explains Apple's sudden interest in this market. Oh, wait a minute. You're saying five out of eight dollars we make on the app store comes from games.

1:12:35 - Andy Ihnatko
Oh, yeah, but the but? The point is that you don't you don't need like neural engines in order to make that work. It really is like people who are again candy crush type games, barbie games, things that are just keep keep putting money into the machine as you as you go on for more rewards and more and more levels and more content. It's. It might be more along the lines of there was such a thing as a gaming phone in Android. Maybe what they want to do is they see that as another lever to get more people to switch from Android to iPhone if they get a level of mobile gaming on the iPhone that they couldn't get on this other device there. I mean there, there.

The Nintendo switch is a small market compared to what Apple is making just from the app store on gaming on the iPhone. But if they could simply get a lot of the people to who would be interested in spending two, three hundred dollars for a switch or for one of these six, six, seven hundred dollar windows based or Linux based gaming gaming tablets to suddenly say you know what, if your next phone were to be an iPhone, you could actually play a whole list litany of triple A's level level titles, without having to stream it from the cloud, without having to have this whole separate piece of hardware. It would just be on the regular phone you're using to access twitch, with all right, we gotta move on because we only have 45 minutes.

1:13:51 - Leo Laporte
So enough of that on gaming. Um, here's a story from Philadelphia. Urban outfitters is selling vintage, retro iPods. You know what? When I was at my mom's I found three, three iPod classics. Uh, they unfortunately they have the 30 pin connector. I bought some cables because I was. My plan was I was going to fill them up and rotate them, so I would set, put them up, music on one, and she'd send it back and I'd yeah, you have a few there. Right there, jason, holy cow, that's the original iPod in front of it. Right there. Anybody want iPods. 350 bucks for the fourth generation iPod at the urban outfitters. They're billing them as vintage and retro. Do you think there's a market? That's wild.

1:14:37 - Jason Snell
I mean P-bay is a market for them.

1:14:40 - Leo Laporte
Um, somebody put a box somewhere and they're like, oh, they must have, they must have, but yeah, they must have found a bunch of them, I think.

1:14:46 - Alex Lindsay
For me, the the one that I really you know, mine got stolen from a gym years and years ago, 20 over 20. I'm mad I didn't bring my mom's home with the mechanical yeah, mechanical scroll wheel. That's really old. They got rid of that. That was magical, I know, but it was so. That's the first gen, that's one yeah, gen one. It was so amazing and it felt so amazing. It wasn't nice. Ui never been the same.

1:15:09 - Leo Laporte
I know it's cheaper and it's easier and everything else, but it's never been as good as that very first one hey, sad news pad and quill, which makes, I thought, made excellent leather, uh, another iPad and uh phone accessories is shutting down. They're going out of business and I only mentioned that because you might want to go to pad and quillcom I have there. I have their leather watch band, the lorry I love they had a bunch of nice cases. The site is very slow, so, uh, they're being hit hard because they're having a 50 off sale. But sad to see. Sad to see that because I really like pad and quill stuff yeah, good accessories yeah, oh, uh.

Let's talk more about Apple TV, because, guess what? There's a rumor this is a terrible story, this is a nightmare story that Apple is going to modify the Apple TV and eliminate standalone apps. Have you seen this? Where was this? Where did I read this?

1:16:05 - Alex Lindsay
I wouldn't be. I mean, I have to admit, I try to look at how many standalone apps I actually use. I mean, I definitely use all the video apps. Um, this is from Bloomberg.

1:16:14 - Leo Laporte
Apple to revamp TV app and step towards simplifying video services. Dedicated apps this is Mark German for buying movies and shows will be phased out. This is, I guess, what you put. This that's.

1:16:30 - Jason Snell
Apple's dedicated apps, though right oh is it so?

1:16:35 - Leo Laporte
this is the TV app company's bringing a new version of the app release around.

1:16:39 - Alex Lindsay
December shows app and the trailers app already sends you back to Apple TV, so like this would be part of the upcoming TV OS software update, right, so?

1:16:48 - Jason Snell
they're pulling their iTunes and you know movie rentals and all of those apps out because you could get to them from the app and so you don't need standalone. Although I will say, since it's been a long time, since the future of TV was apps, I do think that there is something coming where they take the TV app and the home screen and kind of stick them together in a way that they aren't stuck together right now, because it is this weird dichotomy you can set the TV button on your remote to be one or the other. Do you want apps or do you want the TV app? So it's like which one is Apple's primary interface? It's a little confusing.

The answer is yes, why can it not be both?

1:17:30 - Leo Laporte
And they say the German says you'll be able to buy third-party video services like Stars and Paramount Plus inside the TV plus app as well as TV plus. So yeah, maybe that's what they'd like to do. I mean, certainly we're already seeing that Amazon, let's just subscribe to HBO, youtube, tv let's just, so maybe it's just the future.

1:17:50 - Jason Snell
Some partners won't go with that, right Like, netflix is not interested in that kind of kind of deal. They want the Netflix app to be separate and they don't even share the data. But yeah, but in the long run, I mean, I think the ideal experience is that all that stuff should be in there and that the idea of apps should really only be for things that are not standard streaming content.

1:18:09 - Alex Lindsay
But that's not how it has been set up up to now and I wonder whether, if you're included in that group, in that group, if you have to use the Apple login so that we can stop having. Wouldn't that be nice Logins for all of our stuff? Like, if you want to use the separate app, it's fine, but you're now outside of the outside of the walled garden, and so you know there could be some they could use that as a to apply pressure because it's such a pain.

1:18:33 - Jason Snell
Well, apple, wants that right. They want, they want. They want everything to go through channels. It's just that some of the companies are like, no, we don't Well and the user wants to go through just one login, like you know.

1:18:44 - Alex Lindsay
So the Apple wants the one login, the user wants one login. It's the companies that don't want the one login and I and the question is how how much pressure can Apple apply to give it back to us?

1:18:54 - Jason Snell
I would take a proper key chain right, like I just did this every now. And then my Apple I have three Apple TVs in my house every now and then One of them just logs out. So I was trying to watch the baseball playoffs yesterday on max and I'm like, oh, just open up max, which is logged in on all my other Apple TVs, and of course on that one it's like sorry, you have to enter your provider.

And I'm like I just want so there are multiple Apple TVs and other devices, all of which are logged into your service. Why am I going through this again?

1:19:24 - Leo Laporte
So I think that's max right. I don't think that's Apple. Apple probably hates that.

1:19:28 - Jason Snell
But I think, like on my Mac, I can have it in in my key chain and re enter the pass. Yeah, let's have it. Max doesn't want to do that, it's, I don't know.

1:19:37 - Leo Laporte
Let's have Apple TV support, key chain and passwords. Yeah, that's not a bad.

1:19:41 - Andy Ihnatko
But all these, but Apple and Apple and all the streams what the same thing. They want you, they want your loyalty and they want your experience to be thought of. Hey, I'm using my Apple TV. They don't want you to think that the Apple TV is just a generic device through which you go to your Netflix app, which is where you actually wanted to go in the first place, whereas Netflix wants you to think that, hey, no, no, no, your home is Netflix and the Apple TV is an incident, a cog in the, in the, in the process that gets you here. So those are. You're not going to see truce between those organizations anytime soon.

1:20:08 - Leo Laporte
Speaking of Apple TV, a little controversy. John Stewart is ending his show. The Problem with John Stewart? He says he told his staff, according to the New York Times, because Apple had some problems with the content about China and AI.

1:20:23 - Alex Lindsay
Well, that's not that's not welcome to the meeting industry.

1:20:26 - Jason Snell
Andy had a great thread on Mastodon about this that I agree with 100%. It's the idea that, first off, this is a big corporation, that's multinational, and multinational media corporations are going to make decisions like this. And that is not to excuse it, it's just to say yeah, that happens at Apple and it happens at Disney and it happens that you know you name the corporation they make decisions like this. I am kind of baffled about the fact that it the impression is being given and let me say that it's the impression by the report is being given that Apple told John Stewart what he couldn't talk about, which I kind of have a hard time you, you would ever go into business with John Stewart doing something like that. I think. I think partly the source is coming from people who probably are losing their jobs and are angry, and it's based on what he told the staff.

But it but what Matt Bellamy at Puck News reported is that this was a drama free incident that it sounds like. You know, the show has not been setting the world on fire and Apple and John Stewart had a conversation about what his plans were for season three, which they had approved. But again, a lot of media companies are rethinking things now that the strikes are over, or one of the strikes is over and and they're canceling things they previously renewed and they had a conversation with and they had a conversation about what the show could be and John Stewart decided he was just going to pull the plug on it. And again, drama.

1:21:46 - Leo Laporte
That sounds more accurate. Yeah, that, actually. That makes a lot more sense.

1:21:50 - Jason Snell
Right, Like cause, cause again nothing succeeds.

1:21:52 - Leo Laporte
Like success, Nothing good ratings Great, the odor would have had this argument yeah.

1:21:57 - Jason Snell
Exactly If you were, if this was the show everybody was talking about, he could say anything he wants and nobody would say a word, right? But it was kind of a disappointment, and I think maybe even for him. And they got to the point where they're like how do we move forward with this? And John Stewart said you know what, for you to move forward, you need to do things that I don't want to do, so let's just walk away again kind of drama free. And that's why I think that that report, I believe Matt Delany's report a bit more than I believe some of these initial reports that all said any multinational corporation that has media, it is going to make decisions like this that affect everything we see. And you just got to be aware of it. It's not just Apple, it's literally all big media does stuff like this. And you know, you should know, you should know that that, like, if they, if the Chinese markets matter, they're going to make decisions for Chinese markets and that's that's what they'll do.

1:22:44 - Leo Laporte
Which is my argument for companies like that not to be in the media business. I wish YouTube weren't owned by Google. I wish Apple, you know, but but that's the media companies would still be power.

1:22:55 - Jason Snell
You know Warner Brothers, Discovery would still be. That's consolidation is bad.

1:22:59 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, here is Tim Cook standing next to Martin Scorsese's eyebrows and Chad Redfro of the Osage Nation screening of the killers of flower moon opening in theaters Friday. This is him on X. I thought he wasn't going to post on Twitter anymore.

1:23:17 - Andy Ihnatko
Oh well, he's not posting on Twitter, he's posting on X.

1:23:20 - Leo Laporte
Oh okay, Sure Apple. Clearly, in fact, there was a New York Times Hollywood. That's Hollywood.

1:23:26 - Andy Ihnatko
Tim, that's oh yeah.

1:23:28 - Leo Laporte
Hollywood. My people did that, not me is not doing that. Yeah, new York Times says Apple's new film strategy debuts with killers of the flower, moon Three and that first of all three and a half hour movie. Not going to go see that in a theater.

1:23:42 - Alex Lindsay
Not. I think Scorsese has really scored on like taking full advantage of the new platform. Like you're like he just yeah, I don't have to. You know, like he, rather than sitting there and talking about how I'm never going to make a thing for streaming and it's all about the theater and everything else, he is just like between what he did for Netflix and then what he's doing with Apple. He's kind of like this is my new medium I'm not limited to. And what I think it's interesting is he didn't make a series. He's not like I'm not going to cut this up in any certain way, I'm just going to make a long film and you'll decide when you want to go to the bathroom and that Leo beat killers of the flower moon at the weekend.

1:24:21 - Leo Laporte
box office globally. Actually, leo is a movie for the Indian market. It's in Temel, called Leo Bloody Sweet, but it it had a $31 million weekend. Martin Scorsese's killer of the flower moon Actually, wait a minute. What is this headline? That's wrong Cause it says $44 million for killers of the flower moon, taylor Swift, $41 and a half million dollars. Oh, I see. Cumulative worldwide after four days. Leo one with 48.5.

1:24:54 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and the box office starts as an estimate and then it gets updated, but it's still an estimate and it's like one of those things that keeps going. Look, the truth is, this is Andy said earlier. I think this is not one of those things where they're doing it just to be Oscar. Uh, oscar qualified, right, but what it is is they wanted to make a movie with Martin Scorsese, they wanted to make a movie that might be a best picture candidate and it sounds like it is going to be one, and Martin Scorsese wants a wide release of his movies. That's just bottom line.

And anybody who was vying to release killers of the flower moon was going to have to agree to a proper theatrical release. And does Apple care? It doesn't, right, it doesn't. It's not as strident as Netflix is at like being like no, we don't even want to be in a movie theaters where Ryan Johnson got them to put knives out to in, like I don't know, 20 theaters for five days. This is, this is a more serious release, but it, let me no mistake, they're doing it because Marty wouldn't make the deal unless you did it, because Martin Scorsese wants to be in movie theaters and I don't blame him for that at all, but Apple looks at the results and goes whatever.

1:26:03 - Leo Laporte
I mean really because it won't be on Apple TV. It won't be on Apple TV for at least 45 days. That's the deal with Scorsese.

1:26:10 - Jason Snell
And presumably Paramount and the theaters for distributing it and all of that. But it'll be there when the Oscar nominations come out.

1:26:18 - Leo Laporte
They'll make plenty of money on it, especially because it's three and a half hours Thanksgiving weekend. Of course, apple's going to release Napoleon. It'll be in theaters first. That's the, which also looks really Scott, really good, really Scott.

1:26:31 - Alex Lindsay
And again like the the big thing is is that and I don't know what these conversations are like, but I can just tell you the way Apple appears to be spending money. When I look at some of these, these shots, especially Napoleon, it's like Ridley's. You know, for for a director, there's this constant hell of working with producers who constantly tell you no, we, you know, we have to shave off. You know, $100,000 off of the film or a million dollars off the film, and you can't shoot an extra day and you can't do another thing. I don't get the impression Apple is telling people that. You know.

I think that they're I mean, they're within reason. They're letting these directors run somewhat like established, well-known, you know, organized directors. They're giving them the freedom that they need to make the film that they want to make, and that's pretty addicting for these directors. You know, and so you know, and you know, and so I think that that's because that just doesn't happen in a lot of places. Everyone's telling you how much everything costs and everything is and, and and. It just feels like as someone who's worked on a lot of movies, or a fair number of movies, looking at these films, you just feel like no one cut any corners, it's like the only other person. You see that where there's like Christopher Nolan, you know, is where we didn't. We didn't cut any corners, we just did what we want to do.

1:27:41 - Leo Laporte
This is a huge success because the second week in box office beat Taylor Swift. They didn't have Leonardo DiCaprio to promote it because of the actor's strike Right. There was a lot of concern and I'm looking at the Times article that said they'd be happy with $30 million. They're doing much better.

1:27:59 - Jason Snell
Yeah, by the way, napoleon is interesting because Ridley Scott is doing a theatrical cut for that, but simultaneously he's doing an Apple TV cut.

1:28:07 - Leo Laporte
It's three hours. That's what I want, why.

1:28:09 - Jason Snell
That's going to be the real movie. I don't know that. Because of whatever deal they have for that one, he decided to do a shorter cut. But the the you know, then there's a. Immediately the extended director's cut will appear on Apple TV plus. It's smart, right.

Like again, there are why. Why do other traditional studios not make these deals with these guys? I think the answer is that Apple is waiting prestige and visibility for themselves in their service, more than a traditional, you know. Like the other ones, they got all the prestige, they've had the prestige, they great, but they got to make money. And Apple and Amazon and Netflix like prestige is part of it too they wait, they overweight it. Apple certainly overweights it. And if you're Martin Scorsese, isn't that great to have the sort of the money spigot turned on because you're Marty freaking Scorsese or, as some industry exec is going to be, like Marty, make the movie shorter and you're kind of old, so we're not going to give you much money and Apple's like why do we, yeah, why do we have $1 billion?

1:29:06 - Leo Laporte
have at it yeah.

1:29:08 - Andy Ihnatko
It's also part of the. It's also part of the ongoing day taught between like real, like the people who make real movies, and the streaming channels. Remember, like three or four years ago, spielberg was part of a coalition who was saying that we don't think that movies that go on streaming should be eligible for us in consideration, even if they are opening in a few theaters, to be qualified because there these are, movies are being made for phones, they're not made for cinema. And so there is a little day talk happening here where I mean Disney, like Marvel movies, play them on an iPad, play on a phone, it works. There are some movies that like like Napoleon, where, oh my God, if you, this is almost worth like upgrading your, your TV for some of these shots that we're seeing in this sort of thing. So we're seeing a sort of that.

This is still a really, really good haven for real filmmakers trying to make the old, the traditional style movies with scope and vision and filling the entire screen. And I I wonder if there aren't a couple of vision pro set headsets somewhere in the edit suite, just not, not to, not to guide their editing, but just to get people, just to get them on board of and here's the experience people are going to be having of a virtual 60 foot like this division screen in front of them to be able to. You can, you can. If you want to cut this together so that people have to actually turn their heads to see things and different places in the screen, by all means go for it, because this is where we want to be in the next couple of years.

1:30:30 - Leo Laporte
As recently as two years ago, Martin Scorsese wrote streaming services are devaluing, sidelining, demeaning and reducing cinema to its lowest common denominator by calling it content.

1:30:44 - Andy Ihnatko
He's changed his tune a little bit and remember that on Disney, like a whole bunch of content that's just been out for like a month. They just got disappeared because they figured that well financially. We would much rather take the tax right off by removing this from our catalog completely than to allow this, to allow willow to remain and let it basically be there so that it can develop word of mouth. That's disgusting.

1:31:07 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's interesting that Scorsese has so drastically changed his tune, so, and of course he did that long Netflix De Niro thing. I think the money talks, frankly.

1:31:19 - Jason Snell
Yeah, money talks. I think also Apple's branding, because, like Alex said earlier, apple doesn't make 3000 things and throw something new up every week, like Netflix. Apple has tried for quality and tried to be perceived that way and they got the best picture for Koda and like they're trying to be like we don't do that many releases but they're. But they're good and we care and we you know, and that's a good thing to put in the sales presentation.

1:31:43 - Leo Laporte
He moved off of Netflix to Apple. He only made one movie for Netflix.

1:31:47 - Alex Lindsay
I'm sure that was the check that you know, but I think that if you're filmmaker I mean to be brutally honest the Netflix compression is so bad that if I looked at like looked, I watched Gray man on Netflix and in the dark scenes the compression artifacts were so bad that even my wife noticed it. And so the thing is, if I was a filmmaker, I would not. I mean. So the two best, by far the two best compressions are Disney and Disney plus and Apple.

1:32:13 - Jason Snell
I mean they're running like 35 megs a second for every Apple TV subscriber gets 4k HDR right, and that would be part of my pitch to Martin Scorsese right. It's like a solid compression, a good bit rate, good compression. We're not short changing and giving a 1080 standard. It's like all of this. You just get it when you're in Apple.

1:32:34 - Alex Lindsay
TV plus If I was any serious filmmaker unless you're paying me just an insane amount of money. And I saw my film on Netflix. The way I've seen some of these films on Netflix compared and I've looked at the same thing. I'll open up the same film that's on Netflix, on the Apple service or whatever. Just so different and it's just. And it's because they're, you know, they're shaving off the cost so that it doesn't cost as much to distribute it to everybody, you know, and they're cutting that, those corners, and I think that it's just so.

I think if you're a real filmmaker, I think you're looking at a when you're looking at your online sources to do these models. I think it's going to be interesting. I also think that with the vision, the interesting thing is going to be I don't think they're going to do films necessarily in with vision, but I bet you there's going to be a lot of extras. So we saw some blimps, what we call blimps. These are when we take. If you take this camera, this is a Canon R5 with a. It's got two lenses on it and we saw some blimps like this in. So the blimp is a big box that sits around this lens. We saw this lens sticking out of blimps, and the reason that you have lenses sticking out of blimps is because you're shooting behind the scenes, and so that people were like, oh, they're shooting movies for the for the thing. I don't think that's what they're doing.

I think what's going to happen is this, this vision, this. They're using these to shoot experiences, you know, behind the scenes of their own, of their own content. So you might see, you know, like, what was it like to be on the set when they were shooting it? That kind of all that behind the scenes stuff. I think you're going to see an explosion of that next year when the vision comes out. I think they're shooting all that content right now, and so it's going to be really and that's the kind of stuff Apple can do, though that you can't do it in a lot of other places. I do think that we're really interesting, with the some of the contracts, wga and so on and so forth. What happens next year? I think that almost everyone's going to move towards quality over quantity, because it just makes more financial sense for them, you know, for you know, in that process.

1:34:28 - Leo Laporte
All right, we're going to take a break. Get your picks of the week prepared. Coming up in about 20 minutes, the snapdragon summit keynote, where Qualcomm is expected to announce its processor to compete with Apple silicon. Everybody is so interesting. When Apple came out with a silicon, it was so performant and so amazing and it's power per watt was so good that I think it put the entire rest of the industry back on its heels. They just weren't prepared. Here we are two or three years. How long has it been? It's been two years, three years, since the first product. Three, yeah, they're finally starting to catch up until this probably will come out this year with something. And now they say the snapdragon X, especially with its AI capabilities. So there's some real catch up happening. We'll watch that with interest in a few minutes and I'm about you to stay tuned if you want Our show today brought to you by Milio.

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This is what's really interesting is Milio is slowly moving all these things that we had to use the cloud and third-party services for down to our own machines, and our machines are now so capable they can do this Preserve your privacy, keep your stuff to yourself, get all the security you want, but not losing but not lose a single feature. Now I'm using Milio Photos Plus because one of the other features is you can put your Milio catalog on everything you've got iOS, android, windows, mac so every machine I have has my catalog. You can store the originals if you have lots of storage, an optimized version if you have less, or even just thumbnails. But when you open a thumbnail, it'll download the original. It's not downloading it from the cloud, it's downloading it from another system on your network. Milio Photos Plus keeps all my devices connected in a single library without cloud storage. Now I do back it up to my Synology and Assets supports Synology, so I have a backup, which is great. But with offline storage, I don't have to rely on the cloud to keep files accessible through devices and I can create new backup systems and know they're secure, because encryption is built into Milio. So if you want to use the cloud as a backup or as shared storage, you can with full encryption, so no one could see it. But you Download Milio today for free.

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One of the ways Apple's paying for all these expensive movies is very expensive cables. But you did see the CAT scans of Apple's $130 Thunderbolt cables. I love this because it said you know what? There's a good reason it costs so much more. These Thunderbolt 4 USB-C Pro cable connectors are reinforced, grounded metal shell, single piece, crimped cable strain relief. All of this from Lumafield, which makes industrial CAT scanners or CT scanners study this question on three dimensions and they say you know what? This is a pretty impressive cable. If you want to see the pictures? Ours, Technica, has them. It's really impressive.

1:41:08 - Jason Snell
The one thing that I wish they would have done is look at a Thunderbolt cable. You know that competes with Apple's cable because the other ones are like USB cables. Right, apple's is super well engineered but like, okay, but I can go to other world computing and I can get a Thunderbolt cable that is appreciably cheaper.

1:41:28 - Leo Laporte
So Lumafield scanned a $10 Amazon Basics cable. They also just scanned a $3.89 cable and there's a lot less in there. I think here's one of the things that I really was blew me away. One of the things Apple does for timing reasons. You see, this this up and down sine wave. That's so that the length of this line is the same as the length of another line, so they're timed equally. They create a light.

Yeah, trace length parity for high speed data transmission. Okay, I can tell you, probably Amazon Basics cable does not do that, I'm just I'm a guy.

1:42:06 - Andy Ihnatko
You forget about all the electronics that are inside that little molded end. Yeah, we're used to thinking, oh no, that's just where the, where the wires go into the connector. That's basically an Apple II, apple IIe in there.

1:42:20 - Leo Laporte
I'm gonna quickly do my pick of the week and I'll give you guys your chance. This is was in the news this morning automatic. Our friend, matt Mullenweg, the creator of WordPress, just bought something called textscom and I immediately set it up because now I can trust them. It's not free, but you can merge this is. This is like pigeon. This is you can merge all of your messaging apps into one platform Twitter Messenger, signal, telegram, whatsapp, yes, messages from Apple, Instagram, linkedin, slack and Discord DMs all into one thing. I set it up. I haven't fully set it up yet, but I was very impressed. Works on Mac, windows and Linux. I think it's probably using web APIs for most of these. I know it is for Signal, but wow, what a cool app.

1:43:07 - Andy Ihnatko
That's a really big deal. It's not like it's the first solution for met, collaborating, collecting all of your messaging through one portal, through one interface. But the thing is like I've never heard of any of these other companies before. But when you have automatic doing it, it's like okay, I might exactly give this a live fire exercise.

1:43:24 - Leo Laporte
I wouldn't have tried it without it. There is a hint, it is if you want to try it, it's an invite only unless you sign up. So there's a 30 day free. So you can sign up for free, and I it was. It's not cheap. I think I've had 150 bucks for a year, or I will be once the 30 day trial is over. I'll decide before 30 days is up for the end of the year, before I or the end of the month, rather before I sign up for the 150 bucks. But I'm impressed. They say it's encrypted. Their servers never see the content, and I think because it's automatic, because it's Matt Malamweg, I believe that. So yeah, anyway, I just thought I'd mention that it might be worth trying textscom, and they also got a great URL. I don't know how they got that Txtscom. Andy, your pick of the week.

1:44:11 - Andy Ihnatko
Very quickly. I first, for reasons that I can't even guess at, I suddenly got back into streaming internet radio a couple of weeks ago and was disappointed to find that there aren't a whole lot of really great streaming radio apps and Apple music is no longer an app that does streaming internet music and internet radio. So but fortunately, I found that the icon factory has this really nice app called try out. Exactly they are like. Anything icon factory does is the most Apple, most Mac, like most iPod, like iPhone, like Apple TV, like wave, doing things. Very clean, very pretty app. More than anything else, it works with everything. It's so, if you so, if you want to, if you start by listening to BBC radio in the in carplay, it will go from the car to your phone. Listen to on the phone as you're taking a walk, then go back in the house. It'll go through your Apple TV, go back into your Mac. It's all synced through iCloud. So it knows, like, where you are. It knows what all your bookmarks are.

Very, very pretty interface. It's not. It's not, and also it's not ads, not supported by ads, so it's all. So it really is a very clean, very, very pretty, wonderful interface. It's not that expensive. It's very flexible 20 bucks to own it, to buy it outright, I think. It's like one buck a month for a subscription, or 10 bucks a month, 10 bucks a year to go on an annual plan, and it's it's I realized that just the thing that I want to have in the background in my office when I'm just doing like email work. I just want to listen to the radio, meaning that I want to listen to nice people with lovely foreign accents, maybe talking about documentaries, about people who collect cheese labels in the north in the northern England, you know. Or I want to hear like music. And so what would you think was the turning point for cheese label design? Well, the off-chart print coin, 1841. I am buying it right now.

1:46:13 - Leo Laporte
If for no other reason that I want to support icon factory because Twitter screwed them and they just they found something. Another app and I think this looks like a great idea. Plus, it does Apple music and it does airplay and I mean this is great.

1:46:25 - Andy Ihnatko
This is everything you want. It's sprung on for a couple of years, Like they just did a big update a couple months ago and they did another big update like just that just dropped today.

1:46:31 - Leo Laporte
So nice well worth it. Alex Lindsey, your turn for the pick of the week.

1:46:36 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, so I'm inviting you to take my lower third down just for a second here, because I'm going to show something that's going to go over top of it. Yeah, so the one of the things that that oftentimes people want to do is they want to have a couple of graphics and they're trying to figure out how to composite these graphics over top of zoom. And this is there's new product out that just came out last week SPX graphics for zoom, and so, basically, this is a zoom app that you could install and there's a free version of it that you can download, with some, with a lot of the basic pieces to it, and what it allows you to do is do things like add your lower third here. Let's see if I can pop that in there you go oh that looks nice yeah.

So, if you want to, if you want to have that there, you can also add things like oh, I want a QR code or something up in the top I might want to have a headline that I pop up here. I'm adding all the things that are possible. I can even say, hey, we're going to be right back. You know like, and so I, you know I have the munchies and so, but you and make it go away and you've got this little switch that's inside of zoom that actually makes this work. I can, you know, quietly tell you that you're muted. You can change what those. You know what it says in those things. You also have things like little animated things here, that of messages. You can bring up images that are there. I don't think I loaded that correctly. Oh, there it is. Let me see if I pop that up. So those are just some. You know some images that that I have from, so I want to show those there.

And finally, you know, you can have things like if you're running a meeting, you can do things like this take over the world, then we'll have ice cream for everyone and then we'll get rid of virtual backgrounds, so, anyway, so the so these are the kind of things that that you can kind of put into the graphics that are there without having a switcher, without having a bunch of graphics that are built in, and so this this all just kind of loads in, and again there's a free version of it that has a lot of the basic things, and then of course, there's a pro version and we think that they'll become a. They're opening up a marketplace so people can get creative about you know what they actually want to put up there. But it's a and I'll turn some of these things off and you can just and you can turn them on and off. But the idea that you can kind of add I think a lot of people want to add a little bit of those and I can see people using especially just the basic free version of I just want to tag. That looks a lot nicer than just my little name down at the bottom of Zoom.

So just you know turn, you know get rid of that, and so that when you're doing presentations or or you know events with it, it gives you kind of that ability to kind of tie all those things together. So it's it's pretty slick. I'm sure it took a lot of work to get that to work inside of that and and the graphics that are. You know SPX is, you know it's a. It's a great graphic system in general, but this is this is specific to Zoom and it's a really, really great product. If this, if you're looking for something that has a little bit more pizzazz than what you would have on your standard standard Zoom event Nice.

1:49:24 - Leo Laporte
SPXGraphics. Mr Jason Snell, your pick of the week.

1:49:32 - Jason Snell
Sure I. I checked MBWpicscom, which is, of course, the Bible of past MBWpics. Thank you to our mysterious benefactor. Yes, hasn't been. I don't think it's been updated in a couple of months. But I mean, please, we love you and we couldn't do it without you. I'm just getting this under the wire. Just just. Maybe it's a few weeks under the wire because of I tried and.

I picked the same thing every year. Yeah, and I picked this last September. So guess what? It's been more than a year and the new version of keyboard Maestro just came out. So I'm going to plug it again. Keyboard Maestro 11, $36. If you already got it, you get an update. I think it's a cheap price. Or you get it for free or whatever, but like there. But if you buy it fresh, it's $36. It's cheap.

It is the ultimate automation app for the Mac. If you can't, if you, if you're somebody who fancies yourself on an automator, or you wish you could automate something, but you realize, oh, I tried Apple script and it didn't work. Or I tried shortcuts and I couldn't make it to work because there's something that doesn't support scripting. My short elevator pitch for keyboard Maestro is it can automate literally anything. It will automate mouse clicks and typing and clicking on menus. It will literally look at the screen, find something on the screen that looks like the right thing and then you can click on it. So anything that you think is not automatable on the Mac is absolutely automatable with keyboard Maestro. Even if you have to do again I do a lot that's resorting to brute force, but also there are lots of very simple automations that I have where I can control my music from very specific keys on my keyboard that Apple doesn't want me to assign to controlling my music.

It's got shortcut support. It's got a new command line utility now so you can use that. It's got a whole bunch of other features. That's using Apple's text recognition engine. Now Peter Lewis has been designing and writing Mac software for longer than I have been writing about Mac software. That's a long time now and he keeps this thing up to date. It's gonna keep getting better and better. But like the power, I just can't emphasize enough. You might say to yourself oh well, this thing surely can't be automated. It can, it can, and if shortcut's an Apple script can't do it, don't worry.

1:51:46 - Leo Laporte
Keyboard Maestro.

1:51:46 - Jason Snell
Absolutely. Keyboard Maestro will do it Absolutely. It's amazing.

1:51:50 - Leo Laporte
That's Jason Snell, sixcolorscom. Sixcolorscom. Slash Jason for his many shows, thank you. Thank you for being here, andy and Ako GBH next.

1:52:02 - Andy Ihnatko
I was just on Friday live at the at the Bosporus Library. Go to WGBH News channel on YouTube to watch that, or go to WGBHnewsorg to stream it on audio anytime you want.

1:52:12 - Leo Laporte
Nice thank you, andrew. Alex Lindsey's OfficeHoursglobal. We don't have time to give you the full plug, but you should check it out because there's great stuff going on. And maybe, alex, you'll join us with the Office Hours crew Monday at 5 for the Apple event. I'll see you there. I think that'd be fun. Thank you, alex. We're gonna segue right into the Snapdragon Summit keynote, so I'll say goodbye to everybody. I'll thank everybody for joining us.

We do Mac Break Weekly every Tuesday, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern time, 1800 UTC. At least until next week. You can watch us at livetwittv, chat with us live at IRCtwittv or in the Club Twit Discord. If you're not a Club Twit member, please Support what we do. $7 a month gets you ad free versions of all the shows, access to the Discord, to twittv slash, club Twit After the fact, on demand versions of the show available at the website twittv slash MBW and the ad support ones are free, of course. You can also watch us on YouTube. Best thing to do is subscribe in your favorite podcast player. That way you get it the minute it's available. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next time. But now it is my sad duty to say get back to work because break time is over.

1:53:29 - Promo: Scott Wilkinson
Hey there, scott Wilkinson here. In case you hadn't heard, Home Theater Geeks is back. Each week I bring you the latest audio video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your AV system, product reviews and more. You can enjoy Home Theater Geeks only if you're a member of Club Twit, which costs $7 a month, or you can subscribe to Home Theater Geeks by itself for only $2.99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of Home Theater Geek-a-Doo.