MacBreak Weekly 866 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
Coming up on Mac Break weekly. I Mikah Sargent Am in for Leo Laporte and we've got a great show planned for you. Uh, this week I am joined by Andy Ihnatko, Jason Snell and Christopher Lawley YouTuber, uh, who covers all things Apple and is a wiz with his iPad. We first talk about Apple, uh, launching a new high yield savings account for folks who have an Apple card. It's a way to make some money or more money on the cash back they get from the Apple card. Then we talk about a report from Bloomberg's, mark Germond, uh, that suggests Apple's working on quite a few apps for its mixed reality headset. Plus one way that a developer surprised Tim Cook at the launch of Apple's Mumbai opening and how Apple's lockdown mode actually helped when it came to an NSO hack. Stay tuned for all that and more coming up on Mac Break Weekly podcasts you love
V.O. (00:01:08):
From people you trust.
This is TWiT.
Leo Laporte (00:01:15):
This is Mac Break Weekly with Mikah Sargent episode 866 Recorded Tuesday, April 18th, 2023. No honor in being a warrior. This episode of Mac Break Weekly is brought to you by Melissa. More than 10,000 clients worldwide rely on Melissa for full spectrum data quality and ID verification software. Make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Get started today with 1000 records cleaned for free at and by Cisco Meraki. With employees working in different locations, providing a unified work experience seems as easy as herding cats. How do you reign in so many moving parts? Well with the Meraki Cloud Managed Network, learn how your organization can make hybrid work work. Visit and by Miro. Miro is your team's visual platform to connect, collaborate, and create together. Tap into a way to map processes, systems, and plans with a whole team and get your first three boards for free to start creating your best work yet at It's time for Mac Break Weekly. I Mikah Sargent Am in for Leo Laporte this week. And yes, even though he's not here, the show will work much like it always does. It's a show where we talk about Mac things, MAC people, and Mac burgers. No, not that last one. Um, let us get underway, uh, joining us. First and foremost, at least on my list, it's W G B H is Andy and oco. Hello Andy.
Andy Ihnatko (00:03:01):
Hey there. Hi there. Ho there Mikah. Nice to see you.
Leo Laporte (00:03:03):
Good to see you too. Uh, also joining us this week from just a little trip down the highway, it's Jason Snell. Hi Jason.
Jason Snell (00:03:11):
Good to see you, Mikah. I'm here to answer those questions. M who Mack what Mac, when Mware and m Why
Leo Laporte (00:03:18):
<laugh>? I can't wait to have all of those answers laid out. Of course, Jason Snell is of six and the incomparable network as well as fine podcaster on Relay fm. And last but sweetly not least, it is YouTuber extraordinaire and, uh, a frequent guest on iOS today. It's Christopher Lolly. Hello.
Christopher Lawley (00:03:40):
Hey, thank you for having me on. I'm excited to be here.
Leo Laporte (00:03:43):
Yeah, happy to have you here. And, uh, reporting from a new location. Yes.
Christopher Lawley (00:03:47):
Yes. I think this is the first time I've talked to you since I moved. So this is, uh, my, my new office setup
Leo Laporte (00:03:53):
With a keyboard wall behind you.
Christopher Lawley (00:03:55):
Yeah. There's about 15 keyboards behind me.
Leo Laporte (00:03:58):
<laugh>, do they all have superpowers? Is it like you get to choose, uh, today? I feel like being able to have the power of flight,
Christopher Lawley (00:04:05):
Every single one of them has different sounds and feels They're all completely different. Yep. They all have different looks. They're all completely custom. So I would say yes, they do kind of, sort of have different superpowers. They just can't make me fly though.
Leo Laporte (00:04:19):
This is my writing keyboard. This is my raging keyboard. This is my chatting keyboard. It's good to have
Jason Snell (00:04:25):
A podcasting keyboard because then nobody hears your
Leo Laporte (00:04:28):
Christopher Lawley (00:04:28):
I do have one of those
Leo Laporte (00:04:30):
<laugh> I have one of those space no one can hear you type. It's
Andy Ihnatko (00:04:34):
More, it's, it's more like how, you know, when Gaga goes to an award show, like she has to have the like, arrival in the limo. Look, she's got to have her red carpet. Look, she's gotta have her performance. Look, she's gotta have her audience look, uh, a look for accepting the award and after show look. So <laugh>, I'm I'm totally in favor of again, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta show the fans that she came to play that you, you, you brung it this time. And so I'm, I'm embarrassed I only have two keyboards in front of me, frankly.
Christopher Lawley (00:05:01):
<laugh>. That's okay. I, uh, I realized the other day I was, uh, talking to somebody that I realized I have more variety and keyboards than I do in t-shirts. <laugh>. So
Leo Laporte (00:05:10):
Christopher Lawley (00:05:11):
Leo Laporte (00:05:11):
Wow. That, you know, it's a choice and you've made it and good for you. My six. All right. Um, let's get this show underway. The first, uh, thing I wanna talk about today, it's relatively new announcement, um, at least in, in terms of its, its launch. Uh, apple of course, had said that they were going to be bringing, or it was going to be bringing a savings account, um, to its sort of financial offerings. And that has now officially launched as of, uh, yesterday of, we record the show on Tuesday, April 18th. This was on April 17th. So Monday, um, the savings account is now available. It has a 4.15%, uh, a p y and it is linked to one's Apple card. So Jason, it's not that I, as a person who doesn't have an Apple card, could just go, I'm going to start shaving my money with Apple.
Jason Snell (00:06:09):
Yeah, that's also, you said shaving there, which is weird, but, uh, it was a voice. I get it. I get it. It was a bit, yeah. This is for Apple Card customers only, at least for now. It's an interesting test case. And what they're really doing is Apple Card gives you cash back, um, on purchases. And that's, that's, you know, like many cards do. But the way that Apple Card does it is it puts it into Apple Cash, which is available in, is it some countries Now? It's, it's not just the US is it? Anyway, it's Apple Cash, um, like you can send to other people. And so what this does is essentially give you the option of turning this on and then your money doesn't go into Apple Cash. It goes into this bank account essentially run by Goldman Sachs who runs the Apple card.
And, and so basically it is, if you're like me, you occasionally just transfer, oh, I've got $300 in Apple Cash, I'm gonna transfer that back to my bank. I think the idea here is to encourage you to leave it where it is because it's in the Wallet app, it's accessible. You can pay from it at any, any time you like, but you are earning what is for a savings account, a very good interest rate. So I think it's Apple, you know, toying with this idea of having an Apple Bank account using Apple Cash for Apple Card members as the way to do it, and then give you an inducement to stay there. Um, and I had somebody email me yesterday who said, well, why wouldn't I just transfer <laugh> transfer lots of money from my bank account in there cuz it's earning a, a better rate.
And you could do that. I, I am not a giver of financial advice, but I I think it is an interesting, uh, I would say a toe in the water for Apple, right? Which is like, what if, because the Apple cash itself is like this weird, um, nether zone, like a limbo land. Like just like your PayPal balance, which is like, well, it's my money, but they get to keep it and do whatever they want with it until I take it from them. And this is more like, okay, we'll put it in a bank account for you. And I, I think that there's something actually a little reassuring about that. So, I mean, it's an interesting test case for them.
Andy Ihnatko (00:08:09):
Yeah. And, and it was interesting to look at the, uh, at the interest rate 4.15%, which isn't a necessarily a world beater, but if you, if you limit, uh, save, if you limit your examination to just like credit unions and savings accounts with, uh, yields that don't absolutely stink, it's actually very competitive. Uh, like my, my bank gives 3.9, there's another credit union that does 4.4 with a minimum balance. There's no minimum balance here. Um, I've, I've been reading the financial, like, just, just like you Jason, like I'm not a financial <laugh> person. So I've been reading like, what, how, what, what do the financial analysts have to say about it? And they're basically giving it pretty much a thumbs up and much for the reasons that you're giving them. Uh, you, you were giving everybody that it's a, a way for Apple to keep your money in the, encourage you to keep the money in the ecosystem using a technique that they're not used to doing by actually giving you something in return as opposed to locking you in and making it very, very expensive for you to leave.
Leo Laporte (00:09:08):
Now this is sort of, uh, a different, uh, aspect from, we talked before about Apple's, uh, entry into the buy now pay later game, the buy now pay later space. And we continue to see Apple, as you mentioned, Jason sort of dip their toe into, uh, all of these aspects of, of financing. Um, is there anything left? What, what do we have after savings account, buy now, pay later, credit card, uh, and then the sort of Apple Cash limbo that can also, I mean we know that with Apple Cash, if you've got a family account, then you can uh, give different people different amounts of money regularly. So you can have a, a kid that sort of gets there, I guess allowance through Apple Cash. So it seems like they've covered a lot of the bases. Is there anything left in financing that Apple or financial, uh, stuff that Apple would wanna do?
Jason Snell (00:10:03):
Um, I mean, on one level what I want to say is anything, uh, that they can <laugh> Yeah, fair. This part I think, I think actually Apple's biggest challenge in this area, I mean, they are trying to spin up their own thing. This is all through Goldman Sachs and at least based on Mark Gorman's reports at Bloomberg, they really want to create their own financial services and run this all themselves. I think that being forced to have a financial partner, it's a, it's a age old story, right? Which is they want to enter a field and disrupt it, but that field's got pesky regulations and <laugh> so you end up going with a partner who's already gone through it all. And for Goldman Sachs, this is actually a weird kind of outlier to their core business. And I've definitely seen during all of these various sort of banking instabilities the last few months, people a wondering if Goldman Sachs actually wants to be in this business in not just Apple specifically, but sort of like retail banking, uh, at this level in general.
Like I think Apple would prefer to do it all themselves, but they found it hard and look no further than the fact that a lot of Apple's financial services are still not available outside the US or in very limited number of countries. So I think that it, owning it themselves is a big frontier for them. And I think on top of that, it's getting it worldwide, which, you know, they have to go through the banking regulations or get a new partner in every single place and then tie it in with their software cuz they've got all this custom software, like the Wallet app, we forget. It's not just let's make a deal with some bank in, in, uh, New Zealand or something. It's like, well no, it has to be wired in somehow to get back to the wallet app cuz that's where the UI is for everything. So I think that's my guess is it's same old story with Apple, it's gonna be world domination and doing it all themselves.
Leo Laporte (00:11:42):
Hmm. Now I'm curious, uh, do any of you, uh, if you can, to share, use any of apple's, whether it be the Apple card and now this, the savings account? Uh, because one of the things that Apple regularly touts and they, they bring it up in this, uh, newsroom piece is, uh, quote, the new savings account from Goldman Sachs builds upon the financial health benefits that Apple card already offers. And financial health, financial health, financial health seems to be this through phrase that they're using in everything. And so I am curious, cause I I don't have any of these, uh, these accounts. Do you feel like there is a true focus on financial health with the offerings that Apple Card and surrounding products have that you're not finding from other credit cards you may have had over time or other financial products you may have had over time?
Andy Ihnatko (00:12:33):
No, I, I, I don't think so. I think that the, one of the most important parts of this product is the card itself. They've made a really, really cool card that you kind of want to have. And if you have the kind of credit where you can just ask for a card and get it, yeah, it's a fun other thing to have in your wallet. It's great to have that kind of integration and into Apple Wallet, but it's not, um, I I I wouldn't say that it's like, uh, the way that the iPhone changed the relationship between the phone and the carrier, uh, and basically dropping all the limits of, uh, of, of institution that was not ready to do, uh, to, uh, to handle people's needs in the 21st century. I don't think they're changing banking that way. Um, I don't think that there's a really, I don't think there's any kind of a social, uh, positive element to this.
Not that there has to be, but it really is, I think at this stage, apple deciding here's something we can do that will enhance Apple products, ie. The, the iPhone and Apple Wallet, uh, won't cost us anything. It will make, it'll tie people closer to our brand and it's very low risk. And it's because we're partnering with Gold Goldman Sachs, we won't go to jail at least in the first, first five to 10 years as we spin this up. Um, I mean this, this is, this is why, like, as with anything else, I mean, people are likely to, I I think that people have a trust relationship with Apple such that they would try, they would be interested in getting a card with Apple that they may not necessarily be interested in getting with another institution. Even though you still have to read through that entire pdf, you still have to make sure that you read through and you say you have to, you have to, uh, that you're bound, you're bound by an arbitration clause with Goldman Sachs, uh, for any disputes. And so to opt out of that, you have to send an iMessage and you won't figure that, figure that out unless you of course read, uh, read all the documents, which maybe you're not gonna do because it's so frictionless to simply click a button and maybe get this cool new Apple product I e this nice, this nice thing, this this nice piece of metal with a technology inside it for your wallet.
Leo Laporte (00:14:29):
Christopher? What? Oh, yes, thank you. I was gonna ask if you any thoughts <laugh>?
Christopher Lawley (00:14:33):
Uh, so I, I do have an Apple card and I mostly use it for business stuff. Like, hey, buying a new whatever Apple thing to review just because you get the 3% back and it's easy to separate from my personal credit card and stuff like that. Uh, the one thing I'll say that I think it does really well, the Wallet app does is when you go to pay it, if you, it shows like, hey, you can pay the minimum and it's gonna, you're gonna end up owing this much an interest or you can pay a little bit more and you'll pay a little less an interest. And my other credit card, my personal credit card doesn't do any of that. It's just like, pay the minimum or pay whatever you want or whatever you can pay it off. Uh, and, and at least in the wallet app, I will say it, it does a nice job saying kind of showing you like, Hey, the more you pay, the less interest you have. Which seems like a no-brainer, but when I was a lot younger, uh, I made some mistakes with credit cards that I should not have made. Uh, and I ended up really paying for it for a long time because of that, because I didn't understand what a credit card was. So I, I don't know if it's, it's not perfect by any means, um, but it at least does a good job at explaining like, Hey, pay a little bit more and you'll actually pay a little less in the long run if you can kind of thing.
Jason Snell (00:15:48):
Yeah, I think it's the financial equivalent of when we talk about streaming and we talk about how like Amazon and Apple are not playing the same game as the entertainment companies because they're looking at a big picture with their ecosystem. It feels a little like that for financial stuff, which is they want you as an Apple customer at the heart of their platform and their ecosystem and financial is part of that, but they, they want you to, they want you to view them as a trustworthy partner, right? And so they, you, you, you don't get that sense of like, eh, they're gonna really take me for a ride here because they, they have bigger things in mind, right? <laugh>, like, they want, they want a long relationship with you. And that does show, I mean, they, I think, I don't think all banks are this way, but I think that the financial industry in general, you know, is, is not necessarily worried about your financial health at the level that Apple is because a a, it's not the only business Apple is in Apple doesn't need to make all of its profit on this credit card that it's got.
And I also have an Apple card, um, and, and you know, when you buy a lot of Apple stuff, it really just for the cash back, it's actually a pretty good deal. Yep. And so, and I buy, uh, get, look, I buy a lot of Apple stuff, so <laugh>, uh, yeah. So I, I think that that's, that's an area where they do differentiate themselves a little bit is because they're not playing the same game. They're, they're not getting all their money from the financial sector. It's just one piece of a much larger puzzle. And so they can afford to think big picture when a lot of their competitors in that space are not mm-hmm.
Andy Ihnatko (00:17:13):
<affirmative>, you know, the, the, the, the only downside I think is that like when you, uh, when you take a look at the, the offerings that, like your current bank, what, what, whatever, whatever your, the hub of your money is, uh, your current offerings, if you haven't really taken a look to see exactly what the, their, what their apps can do and what other services they provide can do, it's, uh, the, the, the services provided by an Apple card seem pretty thin. Again, that's not something that I'm faulting Apple for. They're not necessarily creating, they're not really trying to be a financial institution yet. But when, when I talk about, uh, having a social component to it, I'm talking about things like, uh, uh, things that the, that for instance, they're, the fact that they're limited to the United States right now means that they can't address a very, very serious problem worldwide, which is acc simple access to banking.
There are so many people even in the United States who just don't have access to banking services. And even if they just simply said, and this would be, this would be outreach with a capital O for Cup for, for for Apple. And so again, I'm not faulting them for this, but just as, as an example, if they simply said that we're gonna make it easier for people who don't have a fixed address, or people who have sporadic income to be able to pay their bills as efficiently and as securely as somebody who makes, uh, makes, you know, $10,000 a month, that would be moving the needle. Even for people who have, uh, more knowledge about financial, uh, uh, financial operations and financial health, the ability to simply say, here's your dashboard. Uh oh, I know. Oh, so you're considering paying down this debt, uh, by getting ahead.
Actually that was a, that's a very cheap loan you have. You'd be better off if you're gonna be paying down debt. You'd be better off paying it down over here instead. Uh, I'm not, we're not trying to dissuade you from paying down debt, but hey, uh, don't, don't, don't pay down the three and a half percent lo loan pay down the eight and a half percent loan, uh, and third, uh, third party services that, that have started to crop up that will just simply say, did you know you're still paying $30 a month for America online? <laugh> do, do, do you, do you, do you want us to cancel that for you? Like, yes, I do. Geez,
Jason Snell (00:19:15):
<laugh>. And there are some startups out there that do that sort of thing. And, and I, I wonder in the long run if Apple might, would, might consider something like that cuz there are startups where I, I've tried a couple of them where you connected to your bank and it basically does send you things like, this Bill went up. Mm-hmm. Uh, did you know that? And did you know why? Or did you know that you have that AOL subscription that you, you got from a CD rom back at your grandma's house and now you're still paying it out? So Yeah, I I think that there, I mean that's not the point of the Apple card, but there is a whole other interesting sector here that Apple has the advantage because they don't need to. Right. Like, I mean, it's such a huge advantage. You could argue that it's using power from their strength in another market to infiltrate a different market.
And you've got some antitrust questions there, but like the idea that in streaming Apple is not concerned about making money on Apple tv. Plus they just want the big picture in fi finance. They're not, I mean, they wanna make money, but like, it's not the only place they make money. They can do things differently. That's one way that they can disrupt. And, and to Andy's point, I, you know, there are a lot of other places in this sector that I, I think that Apple could potentially go the, but they've been so slow. And I really does, I really do think it comes down to the problem of international banking, pesky banking regulations again, and how, you know, it, they wanna do things differently and in the US they've managed to get it set up and now they wanna replicate that. And I imagine they just bring their US set up to other countries and some of those countries just look at it and go, no, that's not gonna happen. <laugh>. Yeah, we're
Leo Laporte (00:20:43):
Not doing that here. Thanks. Um, but I I I'd love what you, you know, are, are potentially suggesting for a, a future where Apple is also playing in that space. Cuz um, my main bank account that I have has, the, the bank has slowly added some of those features over time, where now you can sort of keep track of these subscriptions, these recurring charges, and then if that recurring amount changes over time, then it'll let me know. And it has all of these little sort of built-in management features and if Apple is, uh, having some, some of its its business here, it would be cool to see the Apple take on, on all of that and to have, you know, the, the Syrian intelligence of the future where Siri going, Hey, uh, suddenly Comcast has charged you $10 extra this month for your bill and it should not have, uh, what, what do we wanna do about that?
That would be great. Um, alright, we should definitely move along here because, uh, there is a new story, uh, just about an hour ago released over on Bloomberg from Mark Germond. Um, and I found this fascinating. I haven't obviously had the, the opportunity to read the whole thing, but, um, uh, Germond says, I'm holding to people familiar with the matter that Apple is working on and working very hard and working very quickly on a bunch of new apps for its upcoming mixed reality headset that the company is going well if, uh, there needs to be this quote unquote killer app that's there, maybe we just need to make sure that it's there on day one and we'll make sure that it exists. Um, according to the, the report they're working on collaboration apps, which could be the extension of the Freeform app, uh, also virtual workouts and meditation, which could be an extension of the Fitness Plus service, uh, as well as some games that could be an extension of Apple Arcade. So I am curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this. It's one of those, what is it? It's, it's not, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. It's, um, if it doesn't, I don't even know. <laugh>, if we build it, they will come I guess <laugh>, I
Andy Ihnatko (00:23:02):
Think I, I think it's, I think it's like what, uh, uh, uh, what Mel Brooks said about comedy. Like if you're gonna walk up to the bell, don't tap the bell. Ring the bell. Uh, so yeah, it's, it's, it's also, uh, I I, I saw this story just before before the show too, didn't know what to make of it because it's still rumors and we don't necess, I don't necess we don't necessarily know how sophisticated any of these kinds of apps are gonna be, but you, uh, I think there's, I think there's a reason why like when the first, when the, when the first iPad came out, uh, the loaner units, they had like the Marvel Comics app on it. They had the New York Times app on it. Because if, to help people make sense of what this thing could be about, you have to give them some practical examples.
I don't think you could just simply give them, Hey, this is a developer platform. Here's a web browser <laugh> here, here's a way you can watch YouTube videos in a rectangle glowing rectangle in front of your face. Good luck with the rest of it. Uh, but, so yeah, it makes sense to have a, a fitness app. I'm looking forward to <laugh>, I'm, I'm looking forward to seeing the first Apple, uh, apple reality headset entries in the, uh, you see, you ever seen the, the, the Reddit sub Reddit, uh, uh, VR to VR to er, like injuries, people, people have, have suffered, uh, in their gaming headsets cuz they couldn't see what they're doing and they wound up like punching a wall or something like that. Ouch. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and so yeah, so it's, it's, it's gonna be interesting. I mean, I won't, I won't go through stuff that like, uh, I'm sure I've talked about over and over again, but Apple, there, there, there is no precedent for this outside of games and Apple really has to make sure, really app Apple, apple has to be patient and allow other people to tell them what's so awesome about this.
Uh, they can't really do that outta the box like they can with a laptop or, or a watch or a phone right now. So yeah, I'm not surprised that they're gonna be delivering, if you chip a phone, you gotta have a notepad up on it. You <laugh> you got, if you, you gotta have a web browser on it. And so I don't necessarily know what you absolutely have to have on a VR headset, but Apple seems to have an idea and so that's gonna help 'em out. I'm sure
Leo Laporte (00:25:01):
It's probably fascinating too, they talk, they talk about in this piece, uh, one selling point for the headset will be viewing sports in an immersive way. The company already offers games from Major League Soccer and Major League Baseball and Apple TV plus, but it's looking to make that a richer experience. The, this goes back, Jason, what you were just talking about, where when Apple has this focus that can be on so many different, uh, fields, then when they come out with a new platform, they have the opportunity to adapt what they've created to these different platforms. And we saw this with, uh, Mac os switching to Apple Silicon. Then we saw how, uh, many iPad apps could almost just, you, you flip a switch and then the iPad app can be launched on, uh, the Mac. And of course a developer could improve upon the experience, but that base experience was there.
And that is one of the things that, uh, is mentioned in this piece is many iPad apps on day one will be able to sort of run and then of course can be adapted in subtle ways to give kind of that, that that bridge until the final, uh, system is ready. So it's really fascinating to see if, if you've got your, if, if you've got all these different offerings, these services offerings, how, okay, we've got the stream, all we need to do is add the UI in a way that, uh, plays in VR or ar and suddenly you're watching Major Leagues soccer with an overlay that sort of exists in 3D space. That's kind of cool.
Jason Snell (00:26:28):
Yeah, and what Alex would say that they bought next VR too, we should mention that. Like they, they're interested in VR sports and we, I I think, uh, Mikah, you hit at it, which is Apple's ambitions are large, but they're also all crosslinked with one another. And you know, we're not gonna get out yarn board here and like put up all the ways that it's all connected, man. But, uh, but it is kind of right. Like they're, they, their sports ambition is, you know, at least some aspect of it. They're thinking this could be big in vr, but they're also thinking about the TV and they're thinking about your phone and they're thinking about your iPad and they're thinking about your Mac. And that's, I'd say one of the things that's unique about Apple is they have so many of these platforms, it's one of the reasons why they've tried very hard to unify their software platform because nobody, not Apple nor a third party is going to write a different app for all of them.
And so, you know, that's why cuz Apple's playing a game, nobody else is, right? They have so many different operating systems for so many different devices. It's really, and it's untenable really, which is why they're all variants. They're all becoming other than the Mac, they're all becoming, and even the Mac a little bit variance of iOS in some way because that's for the app development environment especially. So, so you're right. I think that that's what's going on here and it makes sense, right? Like you've gotta prime the pump, you've gotta the thing can't ship and not do anything until apps ship for it. You need to also inspire developers and say, here are the fundamentals, but also we're showing you how we envision apps on this device working. And that's a Apple at its best. And, and some would argue that maybe on the app side, it hasn't been at its best in a while, uh, uh, in terms of their own apps mm-hmm.
<affirmative> like, but at its best, those apps are exemplars, right? And the third party developers say, I don't know how to build this app. I'm not quite sure how, how to approach it. How does Apple do it, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if you are launching a brand new, uh, product and platform like this VR headset might be, then you yada, not only do you need to make sure that it does the things that you think are important like fitness and, and collaboration and all of those things, but you also wanna set the stage and say, this is the bar for apps you want, we want apps that are like this or better than this. So, um, I appreciate Mark Gorman's detailed report of sort of what they're working on, but like they absolutely have to do this. Of course they do because yeah. That, that's, otherwise they're selling people like a, a headset that, that doesn't do anything. It has no, apps is not anything, right? It's, it's really like a sleep mask you can get at a
Andy Ihnatko (00:28:49):
Hotel. You, you put it, you put it on, and there's a blinking command prompt
Jason Snell (00:28:52):
<laugh> ready
Andy Ihnatko (00:28:54):
<laugh>, thanks for the $2,000
Jason Snell (00:28:56):
Tax error in, it's, it's, yeah, the very sophisticated Apple two simulator is what they've
Andy Ihnatko (00:29:01):
<laugh>. There you go. What they've said, emax in vr,
Leo Laporte (00:29:04):
Christopher, uh, according, according
Jason Snell (00:29:07):
To VI and vr, Andy, come on, VI and vr,
Andy Ihnatko (00:29:09):
VR hold, get started with this, that again, <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (00:29:12):
Um, but according to Gervin, one of the main sort of focuses, oh, that may be pun anyway, uh, in, in its first iteration is actually going to be on gaming. What do you think about that? Given Apple's long history of not really being the, the main gaming platform, people tend to go elsewhere for their, yeah, I should say for their, their, their AAA gaming, right?
Christopher Lawley (00:29:41):
Yeah. I I would also say Apple basically has a bottom list Checkbook. They got the Scrooge McDuck pile of money. Like they can, if they really want to make this about gaming, they don't need to do it internally. There are plenty of companies out there. I I just got the PSVR two when that launched like a month ago or whenever that was, who knows? Time is weird. Um, and playing that has just made me a VR believer. Before that I was kind of on the fence. Like the VR experiences that I had weren't like the highest quality. I got motion sick. I just wasn't feel like it left me not feeling great. Um, but the P S V R two, if I remember correctly, and this is off the top of my head, it's 4K displays for each eye. And the rumor for the Apple one is it's supposed to be eight K displays for each eye.
So it's supposed to be a really high quality display. And if that's the case, like that would look fantastic. Like I am very excited for that idea. And if Apple really does go to, um, you know, these companies that have been making big VR games that I'm trying to think of off the top of my head and I can't think of the names of 'em, uh, they could seriously make some great stuff for their headset or just port some existing VR games over like, uh, uh, you know, beat Saber super popular or the, the Star Wars game, um, tales, tales from, uh, whatever. Uh, yeah, it's, uh, but there's a lot of stuff out there that could be poured over that's already out there. Um, but again, apple has a bottomless pit of money. They can go to 80 Company and be like, Hey, would you like to make a game for our fancy new VR headset?
And I highly doubt there would be a lot of companies that would say no. Because if you look at the last major product launches from Apple, you have the Apple Watch, iPad, iPhone, all of them have been hugely successful. Uh, it, it would be weird to bet against this and say, eh, I don't think this is gonna work out. Uh, but VR like vr, the biggest aspect of VR is gaming. And I know there was that report months and months ago about gaming not be a huge focus of this headset, and that just never sat right with me. Like, it just felt weird. Like, how could it not be? Um, I, I'm excited for this kind of like hybrid approach though that if they truly are focused on gaming, but also I could plug this into my Mac and edit a video and VR space, I will totally do that.
Leo Laporte (00:32:07):
Yeah. Cho up that timeline like Fruit Ninja.
Christopher Lawley (00:32:09):
Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah. If I could do that, that would be, I it would slow me down. It would absolutely take longer to edit a video that way than it would be with a keyboard and mouse. But I would absolutely do it.
Leo Laporte (00:32:21):
Be nice to get a work workout while you're working on your <laugh> your edit
Christopher Lawley (00:32:24):
For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you're killing two birds with one stone.
Andy Ihnatko (00:32:27):
Yeah. There, there was a, just hit the news like a couple days ago that Beat Saber reached the quarter billion dollars in revenue. So yeah, there's, there's some, there's some money in <laugh> in VR gaming, and let's not forget, the gaming is the absolutely the lion share of the income that Apple makes from the App store. So yeah. That, that could be a nice cash cow. I, I agree though. It would be, it would be a little bit disappointing if Apple only gave us like a really expensive and nice game console. Um, we're, we're all, we're all hoping that Apple's gonna move the, again, push the needle a little bit mm-hmm. To give us something that will kind of justify, justify its expense. Whether it's a thousand dollars, $2,000 or $3,000 as something that I will actually want. Uh, I will prefer to do certain kinds of work or certain types of interactions with people via this VR headset as opposed to this is something that, uh, thank I, I've, I have nothing to do.
I've got time on my hands. I know I'll spend some time with this Apple VR headset. I mean, we, we didn't think tap, uh, uh, the, the, uh, watches weren't really that interesting, uh, as far as, uh, technology goes, but they absolutely managed to make that into wearables, into an actual category where lots other people couldn't. And it wasn't just because they said, Hey, look, you can have different watch faces. Well, actually explicitly, because they didn't let you have different watch faces <laugh>. But, but again, if, if all they did was say that, Hey, look, it's a watch and you could put your iTunes playlist on it, like, thank you very much. I'm glad I didn't go to Ali Express and buy something exactly like that for $7 and 30 cents in quantities of 50. Uh, yeah. If, if all the, if, uh, this, this is why I think a while ago I actually did think that maybe the last thing Apple wants is for this to be a really, really popular game platform.
But that was a while ago and I'm, I was wrong back then. Uh, because anything they can do to get, make this thing relevant, if they can make, if, if, if they can make this even into the greatest game headset for virtual reality available on the market, just, just like there are people who will, won't spend more than five or $600 for an Xbox, but they'll spend, and other people will spend three, four, $5,000 on a premium gaming pc if that's what gets you to the next version of this. If that's what lets Apple work towards the $500 version of this, the, the, the augmented reality version of this. Anything that, anything that keeps the flop sweat off of the, the inside of these go goggles, I'm for it,
Jason Snell (00:34:44):
It feels like they are managing expectations on one level, right? Which is, they don't want to come out and say, oh boy, it's for games. Games are gonna be great cuz they know it's gonna be limited. It's gonna be very expensive. And people are gonna say, well, for games $3,000, that's ridiculous. And they also know that they're gonna be limited apps there because a lot of their apps are gonna be sort of sourced from mobile or they're gonna be, you know, older apps that have been converted like they have been for other platforms. Also, I would posit, and this is just as somebody, I've been watching Apple almost as long as Andy has, Andy's got me beat there, but almost as long we were back in the bad time. I will say, I don't think Apple's ever gotten games. I think Apple makes platforms. I was actually reading Steve Jobs's, um, the, the book that Steve Jobs, uh, archive put out.
And I was struck by some comment in it about Apple and gaming and, and I, I remember thinking, oh, apple doesn't even get big business. Like people ask about Apple and Fortune 500, and to this day, every quarter they talk about their Fortune 500 business and how everybody's using Mac and they're adopting iPads, and isn't it great? It's like, you know, the truth is, Apple's a consumer product company, they make consumer products, they think about individual users, that's what they do. Everything else is a spinoff effect of that. Like their success in business is because the people in the business want their products. Their success in gaming has always been because they built hardware that prioritize things that either led to places where people wanted to play games or led developers to want to develop games or led them to look at the hardware and say, oh, this would be a good gaming platform. And then they lean into it maybe. But like, it's never, so what I'm saying is I'm okay with Apple looking at this headset and being like games, I guess whatever, <laugh> because if they really tried to build it as a gaming thing, I think it wouldn't work. I think that that, that this is maybe Apple staying within itself and being like, just make the product, just make the product, the games will happen. And I think that's probably the right call.
Leo Laporte (00:36:38):
That makes sense. Yeah. Um, it, it it's going to be a, you know, working with some specific developers and then of course, uh, making it available to others as, uh, after it's announced. Um, I also wanted to mention just a couple of little tidbits again from the, the Gurman, uh, article that when we've known this for some time, wearers are going to be able to operate the headset using eye and hand gestures, uh, like pinch and poke and all sorts of things. But then also an in air virtual keyboard. I thought that was an interesting tidbit, uh, as well as a ga once again, according to the rumors, uh, from Bloomberg or from, uh, Gurman, from Bloomberg <laugh>, that it will have biometric, uh, unlock. But instead of doing like a touch ID button on the side or a a full face id, yes, it's going to scan the user's eyes to unlock, which makes sense. It's right there next to your eyes. <laugh>,
Andy Ihnatko (00:37:35):
You know, remember, remember when, how Apple kept saying that? No, no, no, no, no, we can't have a touch screen on a Mac. Cuz people don't want to do this all the time when they're doing stuff and now they're looks like they're gonna be building a device that requires you to, to Frankenstein your way through, through emails. Now that's interesting.
Christopher Lawley (00:37:51):
I'm really hoping the keyboard thing let is basically a virtual overlay for your physical keyboard that's on your desk, kind of like with the meta quests does. Yeah, yeah. Um, because I don't want to sit there and just like do this like type in the air, like that just feels weird to me. I mean, we've already established I have a keyboard problem, but yeah, like I, I like my mechanical keyboards. I like the feel and sound of them. I don't want to sit there and do this on the air. It just, and for those that are listening, I'm just literally poking <laugh>. Um, yeah, very. It's very,
Jason Snell (00:38:24):
To me, very impressive. Yeah, I think, I think there's a hierarchy of ver of VR keyboard, right? Like VR keyboard number one is exactly what you mentioned, which is, uh, it's a real keyboard. The cameras see that it's a keyboard and they pass it through and, and meta does that, and that's a very clever way of saying, yeah, we, we know you have a keyboard, here it is. Um, but, and then the layer down from that I would say is probably like virtual keyboard surface on an actual surface, like a table or desk in front of you, and then down at the bottom of the list is yeah, wave your fingers in the air. Like you just don't care. Uh, that's, you think touchscreen autocorrect is bad. Just wait until air autocorrect it will be terrible.
Andy Ihnatko (00:39:05):
Yeah. That that by far. When I see the idea of user interfaces through virtual reality, the stuff that gets me most excited is when, uh, the, the hardware has ability to, uh, to detect surfaces and objects and the ability to map control surfaces and objects onto real world objects so that you basically, uh, to, to have like a virtual, uh, 4K screen in front of me, uh, just as, let's say let, uh, and not necessarily doing Photoshop through virtual reality. I just have a, I just have a screen in front of me. This is, this is what I packed with me on the, on the plane, this, this, this, this tiny re remote, remarkably tiny little device. And then simply the fact that I, it can, it can sense that, oh, you're basically sitting at a desk with a flat surface. We're gonna put like a color selector right here.
We're gonna put some sliders right here next to it on the desk. You won't. And so when you actually try to slide the slider, you will feel something, uh, underneath your fingers. Uh, I'm sure, uh, most people have seen, uh, demos where, uh, it maps the entire room. And so you are seeing a completely, you're not seeing anything through live cameras, however, it is reproducing everything that is an object or a hard surface. And there, so you could freely walk through your room full of furniture, uh, out the door, uh, and navigate correctly and then hit the light switch and you actually hitting, we're actually hitting a light switch. That's the sort of stuff that I think is next level stuff. We, we, the, the, the problem with all kinds of technology is that the science fiction comes before the fiction, which means that we get this idea of what this future technology is going to be like through the eyes of a Hollywood production designer that has to make sure it looks good and that it registers to an audience what's happening.
So that's why there's always Tony Stark's point of view, uh, heads up is this myriad of just dials and, and dials and switches, uh, uh, on the, in the, the, in the Tom Cruise movie. It's like these virtual keys that you're actually lifting up and, and touching the, the, the reality is gonna be much better because it's going to be practical, but it's gonna be nothing. The, the, the problem is going to be when you have engineers who are like, oh, well we're gonna do that thing where people are just gonna be waving, waving their, their hands in the air. Like, no, no, we're really not. We're just gonna have literally a touch. We're literally a touch surface on the actual wall that isn't there, that basically says, okay, get my email or something. That's the sort of stuff that's gonna be kind of interesting. We can't picture it.
Leo Laporte (00:41:23):
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Andy Ihnatko (00:45:22):
Oh, well, uh, so Tim is, uh, is in Mumbai right now, uh, doing a lot of, a lot of business. Uh, they're, they're opening of the first, uh, uh, I'll be the first actual Apple store in India right now. Uh, it's a very big, big move. Uh, we haven't talked about, the world hasn't talked about, uh, the iPhone problem, quote unquote recently, but there's still the, there, there's still a lot of people that markets that Apple hasn't absolutely devastated as they have in the <laugh> in the United States. There's still a lot of opportunity in lot in lot different countries. So making sure that Apple has a really, really emphatic presence in India is a big opportunity for Apple. So they op he was there to open up the store and a, a fellow who was described by local press as a user experience developer decided to bring his Mac se with him to the show opening.
Uh, and there's the most adorable, oh, by the way, he was also dressed in Steve Jobs cosplay, like the mock turtleneck, the jeans, everything. And so there's this beau there's this really, really adorable like video on Twitter of Tim Cook. Like, oh my God, you brought a classic Mac you, that's awesome. And that's that. I, so I guess we find out the way to get to the head of the line for the photo ops <laugh> is to, is to bring like 40 year old, uh, apple technology. Uh, it's, it's good to see like we, now that we are, we're in the United States, we've grown a little bit jaded to like new Apple stores and new product launches. It's good to see like that, those early two thousands energy, like being rekindled in these new markets. So that, that I, I thought that was pretty pretty, I I thought Tim was pretty adorable here. <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (00:46:48):
Yeah, I, I mean Jason, you've got plenty back there you could bring with you to an opening if you wanted to.
Jason Snell (00:46:54):
I mean, they're heavy is the problem. Yeah, I don't, I I don't really wanna lift all of these things back there, but, but yeah, it's, you know, it is always fascinating to talk about Apple because Apple is simultaneously an enormous business. And I mean, actually I like Disney in a way, and I wonder if Steve Jobs and Bob Iger ever spent some time talking about this, which is, it is a business, but it's an enter it, it's an entertainment business sort of, right? There are fans, it's a
Andy Ihnatko (00:47:21):
Culture. Culture,
Jason Snell (00:47:21):
Yeah. And it, and it is a culture and it is not just an ecosystem. I mean, and, and it's funny cuz Disney is an entertainment company, but think they have an ecosystem and Apple is a computer company, but they have an ecosystem, right? And they all kinda like, and they have their adherence and they have their fans and it's, it's got value, but it's also not the only thing that's going on. And, and like that's, I think it's one of the fun things about covering Apple is that you, you end up blocking this line between, uh, the, the, you know, they're literally, there are people who will do Coplay and also there are Wall Street financial analysts who are very concerned about large amounts of funding going, investing in or not in Apple. Those things are happening at the same time. And if it's New York Comic-Con, the same place.
Leo Laporte (00:48:01):
<laugh>. Uh, alright, the next story here, and I, I'm really excited that this is being simplified even more if you go to hyphen in <laugh>. Um, so maybe not entirely easy to get to the website, but, uh, the Apple trade-in site has been improved, updated, and, uh, made I think simpler where if you go to that page, you will get, uh, a very easy to understand set of, of buttons you can press essentially. So I can choose, oh, I wanna trade in an iPhone, an Apple watch, an iPad, a Mac, an Android, or some other product. And, uh, in the case of other products, there are probably going to be items that you're recycling, um, Android devices. So if I have a Samsung Galaxy S 22 5g, for example, I could get up to $225, uh, in value that I could then put toward a new phone.
Um, if I was trading in a MacBook Pro, I could get up to $730. Uh, so you get to go through and kind of figure out what device you're hoping to trade in, how much, uh, of, of sort of value you can get from it. And then it is going to give you a, a credit that you can apply to making a new purchase. And even if it isn't eligible for a credit, then they will go ahead and recycle the item for free. Uh, so you can kind of feel good about making sure that the item is properly recycled. Uh, they have this online option. Of course you can do these, uh, trade-ins in store as well, uh, if that's the way that you prefer to do it. But yeah, I, I think this sort of kiosk style that makes it a little bit simpler to do your trade-in is a, is a great idea.
Andy Ihnatko (00:49:48):
Yeah. And it also makes it frictionless that if you're trying, if your, if your thumb is, is kind of on the buy it now button in the Apple store to buy your next, uh, Mac, and you're like, oh geez, that's a little bit too much. Hey, I wondering if I can trade in my Mac for something rather than, okay, so what services do I go? I don't wanna sell on an eBay. What services do I go to? Like, oh, no, no, no. Don't, don't even leave the site. Don't, don't leave. Leave your cart right in front of you. Hey, fella. We'll, uh, we'll, we'll see what we can do for you. Bring it <laugh>, bring you, bring the kids. We've got free balloons and, and hotdogs. Uh, yeah. And it's, it's pretty cool. It is a very, very wide, uh, portfolio of things you can trade in.
Obviously they're probably not interested in my 2012, uh, Intel. I, uh, Mac, Mac Mini, but it's not bad, the list of stuff. But once again, it really is all about how do we get people to sign on the line that is dotted? How do we close that sale? And even though if it's, unless they've changed their relationships, they're still, apple is still in farming this out to an outside recycling company. So hopefully when they get their hands on it, they won't look at like a scratch on the bottom of it, underneath one of the rubber feet and say, oh, well, instead of seven 50, we can give only give you $80. And if you want, if you wanna cancel, it'll cost you a hundred dollars to have this ship back to you. Uh, but yeah, it's, again, anything that makes it easier to, to, to close that deal and put that button that's Apple's all for it. And it's long, long PAs time for them to put this all under one portal. Uh, as opposed to where do I go? How do I chase it? Or am I gonna get this off a time of sale, or can I make that part of my planning as I'm trying to figure out what kind of capabil configuration I want?
Christopher Lawley (00:51:21):
Yeah, I, I had a bunch of Apple products I was selling last year, uh, and they're not, they want old, old, they weren't, you know, they were just a few years old and it was like, okay, I need to get rid of these, I need to clean out my closet and stuff like that. And I looked at Apple's trade-in and I looked at other sites. I looked at like what those devices were going for on eBay and stuff like that. And Apple's trade-in value is not very competitive. It's, in fact, it was the worst out of all of them at, at the time. Maybe it's changed since then. Uh, but at the time it wasn't even close. I ended up selling 'em privately just because I, I ended up finding somebody I knew that needed a couple of these devices and then finding somebody else that needed the other and, um, sold them privately and, and made more money that way.
Now that being said, like what Andy was saying, convenienced trump's so much else for a lot of people. Like, Hey, I'm, I wanna buy this new MacBook Pro. And like, and he was saying, eh, maybe it's just a bit too much. You could sell your old one, or, you know, old iPhone that's laying around or whatever. And that can help go towards that because at the end of the day, apple really just wants you to keep buying new stuff because they are a company and that's how capitalism works. Uh, but yeah, it, I, you know, I'm glad the trade insight is, is a lot, um, cleaner, easier to use now cuz it was very confusing in the past.
Leo Laporte (00:52:37):
I agree. I, I certainly got confused, uh, visiting it and, and more importantly sending people there who were thinking about getting new devices and their, it was where, where, how, what <laugh>
Christopher Lawley (00:52:49):
It was terrible. Uh, last year, um, I sent somebody to the website and they saw the iMac price and they thought that was the price for just all IMAX in general. The, the, the price that, that the cause the way the, it was phrased, it just made it seem like they were gonna get, I'll just say like 1750 or whatever it was, like the maximum price that the Apple was buying IMAX for. It made it seem like that they didn't put in any of their serial number information or anything like that. And then once they once I was like, oh no, you gotta do this. And they did that. The price went way down and they were really disappointed.
Leo Laporte (00:53:22):
Um, alright, next, let's move on to talk about sports. Uh, Jason, do you watch, or have you watched, and how do you watch <laugh> multiple? There's the, the, the who and the what and the, uh, how multiple baseball games at once. Is that a thing? Why, why, why,
Jason Snell (00:53:41):
Why, why would you do such a thing? I don't forget the win.
Leo Laporte (00:53:44):
Yeah. And when do you find the tongue?
Jason Snell (00:53:46):
The answer is it's mostly college football and so it's Saturday, but yeah. Um, one of the beautiful things like my, my old TV had like a picture in picture mode, which is kind of fun. And Apple has a picture in picture mode across all its devices and on the Apple tv. But where it's really at is being able to do a two up, three up or four up, as we like to call it, the quad box, uh, on, uh, on NFL Red Zone. They sometimes go up to the Octa box. I don't recommend that doing that at home. That's only for the professionals <laugh>. But the quad box you can do at home. I, I use, um, FBO as my virtual cable over the, you know, it's a over the internet, but like YouTube TV or Hulu plus live TV and FBO came outta sports.
Uh, sports is sort of their motivating factor and as a result they have a four up mode. So you can just keep adding, uh, channels until you've got four little 10 80, uh, videos playing on your 4K tv, which is actually, it's pretty sweet. And you can move around the audio and you can zoom into one or zoom it out, drop things off. Uh, the reason this came up, uh, a couple of stories about this One is YouTube TV got N F L Sunday ticket, which is all of the live N F L games out of market. And, um, they're building a a Quad box feature. They're building a multi view feature because they know people are gonna wanna put up 2, 3, 4 games at once. Now Apple is doing it and in the latest TV v o s beta, there is a view feature that is not picture and picture.
This is multi view it, right now it is just in the TV app. They're doing it mostly because they have a major league soccer, which plays lots of games at once. And the idea there is that if you want to call up two, three, four MLS games on Apple's TV app, you can do it and they will all be there in a b, you know, beautiful grid for you to watch and flip between and zoom in and zoom out of. And it's a lot of fun. Like I, I've definitely done that, uh, with, uh, college football and a little bit with Major League baseball or for multiple sports. I'd say the big missing piece is that this is in the TV app and what you really want in the long run is for this to be in TV os at the top level that you could take.
Cuz the one place where T V O S does a really bad job with this kind of multi view stuff is across apps, right? Individual apps do multi view, but, uh, you can't do multi view across apps, their individual app implementations. And that way this new implementation is a disappointment because it's, it seems like it's just in the TV app, however, it's in the Player. I, I'm really suspicious that they rushed this feature ahead for the m l s season. And I wonder if this will be a system-wide feature in TV os and I sure hope it is because the truth is sports rights are all fractured. So you might have the mlb, uh, for that game, and then you might have something like FBO or YouTube TV for a basketball game, and then you might have a soccer match that's on the Apple TV app and you wanna put them all up as a three up or throw in another a tennis match or something.
And now you're in four up from 2, 3, 4 different apps. TV os can't do that right now. And it, it should be able to, but they haven't built it yet. But the, in the short term, the good news is that Apple has built a Quad box interface. They can show up to four video streams at once on your screen in the TV app right now just for mls. And I'm hopeful that that will become something that we can just do anywhere. Um, or, you know, that, my joke is if you don't like sports, it's okay. Put up four classic movies in all the corners of your screen <laugh> and just, you know, you're gonna become four times as cultured as watching only one. So anyway, it's a fun feature and I hope Apple expands it out because right now it's all siloed in per app.
Andy Ihnatko (00:57:15):
Yeah, it's, I I, I kept thinking that this is for really, really intense sports betting and for people who are into fantasy sports, people who are like, whether I, whether I go to work tomorrow or not depends on how these three games turn out <laugh>. And not, not because I'm going to win a lot of money, but because if things go really bad for me, the, I gonna just grab my go bag and <laugh> Ernesto in Ernesto Fork is gonna be moving and managing a senate bun in Omaha, Nebraska tomorrow, <laugh>,
Jason Snell (00:57:45):
That's probably part of, I I do not bet on sports. What I'll say is that I find it really great if, if they're, if the team you love is not playing and you just sort of want to be entertained, like, ah, with a major league baseball app and on their website you can actually do a four up view on the webpage. It's just not in their Apple TV app yet. But, um, if it's the team I care about, I will watch their game. But if it's not, then I might put up four games and zoom in when something interesting is going on. Like there's runners on base or that game got close, or this other game that I was watching is in a commercial, so now I'm gonna flip over and watch this. Or again, you got multiple things where you're like, you're keeping tabs on the basketball game, but it's at halftime and the, you know, but the soccer match just started. And so you can kind of flip between them. There, there are, there are applications for that. I'm sure there are people with horrible bedding problems for whom <laugh> this is the perfect feature too. But I can say it's watching not just that,
Leo Laporte (00:58:36):
Like watching someone play Tetris, you don't really need to hear, you could watch four different games and see four different interesting methods of playing. You don't need to hear the, I guess the Tetris music mean you only need to hear one instance of the Tetris
Jason Snell (00:58:49):
Music <laugh> if you think about football, I mean, they have a concept of the Red Zone channel where a professional producer does it for you, but you could also bring up three or four games that you're interested in, whether it's for loving football or for fantasy sports or for betting. And then like when they get, when like the team that you're interested in has the ball, then you flip over there. Yeah. Uh, and then you put kind of, and you can, there's a real zoom in zoom out approach to this interface that I think is kind of fun, where you can have all four up and choose which audio to pick, uh, among them. And, and that audio plays and you can kind of switch among them. But then if you're really interested, you basically, you click on the one you've got selected and it zooms in, and now you're seeing it full screen and then you click the back button and it zooms back out to the four box. It's, uh, it's, it's fun. I love it. I think, I think it's a really fun feature for, you know, limited use. It's not, it's not for everybody or every, every moment, but it's like we, we live in this world where we've got multiple video streams. The Apple TV is capable of it, right? It's perfectly capable of it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and yet it doesn't do it and it's like, oh, or each app does it, but they don't talk to each other. It's so frustrating. I hope. It's
Christopher Lawley (00:59:53):
Almost like they need a split screen to bring split split screen or split view from the iPad over and just like, Hey, let me put multiple apps in here. Yeah. And then do the multi app support that they did a few years ago so that like, I can put the MLB app side by side, you know, multiple instance of it, but watching two different games.
Jason Snell (01:00:11):
Yeah. I mean, it, it's, it's, there is a problem that, I mean, some people are gonna say, well, but they do have picture and picture. I will tell you as somebody who's tried to use it, it's not, Hmm. If you try to use it in one app, like the MLB app, it will work. It's not a great interface, but it'll work if you try to use it across multiple apps, sometimes it sort of works for a while and other times it doesn't work at all ever. It's not good enough, right? Yeah. So whether it's literally I, can I just put an app in each corner, or if it's, can I just take the video streams that we, the system knows are there and put them in the corners and let me watch what I wanna watch. It would be nice. It sure would be nice. Yeah. I'm
Leo Laporte (01:00:49):
So used to, to watching stuff that is, uh, you know, it's, it's scripted, it's, or it's some sort of interesting, you only wanna watch that. And so, yeah, I actually, outside of the jokes about sports ball and blah, blah, blah, blah, it was very helpful because I just had not considered the fact that yes, you could be watching four different games and get value from that and then zoom in on the one that is of the most interest to you. It just wasn't something that I'd thought about before.
Jason Snell (01:01:14):
And there are certain sports where multiple views are available where you could have the ability to have, like, uh, right now, like s p N does that where on big sporting events, they'll have a couple different commentary tracks and then they'll have like, uh, an overhead view of the whole field versus the zoomed in. And so there are other applications for this where you, you might wanna listen to the game, but see it from a couple different angles at once. That might be a way to do it. Or, uh, for golf, like a, a few different holes at once. Or for tennis, you know, you're back to a few different courts at a big tennis tournament that you can go back and forth between. So yeah, it's not, again, yeah, it's not gonna be great for your reality TV show or your Dr. Press release drama. I don't really recommend that. Like Citizen Kanes in the top left corner and treasurer of the Sierra Madre in the top right. And you know, or I, I don't recommend that. Don't, don't do that.
Andy Ihnatko (01:02:05):
It's, it's, but it, it's enough that to just give people the feature and let them make of it what they want to. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> there and there, there, there have been times where like the Boston Marathon was yesterday and, you know, people, people, it's not, it's not boring. I'm not gonna say it's boring. It's an amazing, it's amazing achievement, but the coverage is just going to be, and here's another shot of people running and people are still running, Hey, here's some other people running. Oh, now some of them are a little bit more wet than they were a half hour ago. I mean, it's exciting, but it's not something that, it's something you want to keep an eye on, but nece not necessarily something that you want to watch 24, you know, the, the entire thing. Uh, and so the ability to have one of those in a corner while I'm actually watching something else or, uh, in a news channel, that's, that's pretty cool.
And also, let's not forget that as cool as our 4K TVs are, we are very rarely stream anything that's actually 4k. So there's, if you think of it as four HD displays, then that four HDTVs that are basically in a nice frame in your living room that gives, that does give you a lot of opportunities, uh, whether it is, uh, an actual app that is just simply keeping, keeping an eye on, uh, the cl the, the classic widget would be stock market. But if you're, I don't think I, I think, I think the, the keeping eye on stocks is like the phone app slash widget equivalent of like balancing your checkbook when they try to sell people home computers in the 19, in 1978 saying, yep, okay, that convinces you there's a business reason for this, not that you're actually gonna do it, but, but you know what I mean.
It gives you a way to actually take advantage of a 4K display in a meaningful way. And, and the person who decides to use that feature, when they use it, they don't have to explain it or justify it to anybody. Because that in, in that moment, when you're watching, when you're, when you're watching the Oscars, uh, because you just wanna see if something awful happens, <laugh>, while you're actually watching like a movie or binge watching a series that you actually wanna take a look at, uh, and have other information on the screen that's good enough. Just give us the features, let us figure out how to use it. Oftentimes, you don't necessarily have to push a use case in front of us.
Leo Laporte (01:04:08):
All right. I do need to take a quick break before we come back with loads more to talk about here on Mac Break Weekly. Uh, but let's pause to talk about Cisco Meraki who are bringing you this episode of Mac Break Weekly. Soki are the experts in cloud-based networking for hybrid work. So whether your employees are working at home or working at a cabin in the mountains on a lounge chair at the beach, while watching four different streams of baseball or Tetris, a cloud managed network provides the same exceptional work experience no matter where they happen to be. You. You know what, uh, if you were thinking that hybrid work was leaving <laugh>, uh, it's not. So just go ahead and roll out the welcome Matt. Go ahead and say, Hey, come sit at my table. Cuz hybrid work is here to stay. Hybrid work works best in the cloud though, because with it being in the cloud, there are perks for both employees and leaders.
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Visit and thank you Cisco Meraki for sponsoring this week's episode of Mac Break Weekly. We have talked in the past, uh, on this show, and I've talked on several shows about how, uh, over time GM and Rivian, uh, have both either doubled down on or officially announced if it's their sort of first time that they are no longer going to be supporting, uh, apple CarPlay and Google's, uh, Android Auto, that in the future, their own individual sort of integration. Uh, so mobile integration services into car, the, the entertainment system and, uh, even displaying meters and gauges would all be coming directly from those companies, or they would be using, uh, in the case of gm, a Google created, uh, system. But while that was going on and while we saw all this backlash play out, uh, Ford took the opportunity to say, Hey, you know what we're doing, we're going to commit to continuing to use Android Auto and CarPlay.
Um, which I think was a smart thing to do because we have seen several, or not even just several, but lots and lots of backlash, at least I have, um, regarding the idea that, um, CarPlay or Android Auto was not going to be available in future, uh, versions of these vehicles. And I think this is the first time in a long, long time that I've gotten so many tweets and emails and all these other things that people saying quite literally their decision for their next car was based on whether they would be able to use their, uh, what we call projection system of choice. Because essentially it is the mobile device projecting the entertainment center into whatever the car provides. Um, so yeah, I I don't know, uh, how things have been going for you all in terms of what you've seen out there, but we think this is a pretty smart decision from Ford to say, look, we're doing it. We're gonna keep doing it big
Christopher Lawley (01:09:04):
Time. I I no joke, when we hang up this call, I am going to go test drive a car, uh, because my, my poor car, I'm so bummed about this. My car is dying on me. No,
Leo Laporte (01:09:15):
Christopher Lawley (01:09:16):
I was hoping it was gonna make it to the, to car, the next version of CarPlay when it just takes over everything, but it, it literally, it is dying on me right now. So I am I, when we hang up on this, I'm gonna go test drive a car. I ki you know, I'm kind of been looking at a few different options in my head. I'm like, kind of wanna pick up like I, I'm, I just want to, it's a long story. Anyways, <laugh>, uh, so I was looking at Rivian and then I saw, oh, no, CarPlay out. I will not buy a car without CarPlay <laugh>. I want the I, whether it's, it's, I, I want the option. I, I want the ability to use what I want. I want the ability to use the apps that I use with, uh, with CarPlay, with that interface, not have to just do a Bluetooth connection over to a, you know, the auto manufacturer's interface.
And I, I mean, the car that I have right now, it's a Toyota Corolla. It's, it's fine. It's, it's, it's, it's fine. But, uh, you know, I got in my bro, I drove my brother's truck the other day and, uh, he ha he has wireless CarPlay and I set my phone up to it and I was like, this is so nice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is like, there's maps right there. I can open music, I can open overcast, whatever I want. It's right there. Uh, so basically I have trimmed my list down of potential cars that I will be buying to only, like, I literally checked Apple's website to be like, okay, is this a car that supports CarPlay? Yes. Okay, so that's on the list and then deleted all the other ones that aren't that.
Andy Ihnatko (01:10:42):
Yeah, there, there there's a, there's a word that John Oliver came up with on the old Bule podcast, uh, about how the word is disas unity, <laugh> <laugh>. And, uh, and I, and I think that this is, this is Ford being really, really smart. It's like, gee, GM's getting a lot of backlash and they've made a lot of people very, very angry. Let's take advantage of the Disas Unity to remind people that, Hey, we will let you choose whatever you want. Not, not that the GM decision is necessarily gonna prove to be disastrous for them. Like we said when we talked about this a couple weeks ago, it really is all about, there's a lot of money that goes through that that comes with control of that Center Dash. And GM doesn't wanna let that go to Apple or Google, but I think we are gonna see how, how this, this new version of the, of the headphone Jack Wars plays out. Is it actually going to be something that makes people switch from GM to Ford? Or is it something where people won't like it, but they're not going to, they're not gonna change their entire buying decision based on this thing? We've seen a lot of bad, we've seen a lot of kickback about it so far, but w we've yet to see if they'll, uh, turn into, uh, actual, actual sales.
Jason Snell (01:11:46):
Yeah, I'm a little, okay. I'm not, I don't wanna be the wet blanket here, but I'll say this as a veteran viewer of press commentary, I looked at this statement as being the exact statement you make where it's, you know, it's, it's CarPlay Reme remains a product in our lineup. Yeah. <laugh>, I'm not sure how forceful they are about like, we shall march into a glorious future with Apple and CarPlay. It's more like, no, we have a good relationship with Apple and CarPlay in our cars. Uh, I think that's fair. People who are looking for the like counter to GM have maybe read a little bit more forcefulness into this statement than, yeah, like, I, I don't think there's anything in here that if Ford decided in a year to announce that they were gonna dump CarPlay and Android Auto, that we would be able to point to this statement and say, but you promised.
Right? It seems very much like we continue to have until the moment that we don't a relationship with Apple. That's fair. I think the question, the big question is how many people are gonna care? Cuz that's GM's bet. GM's bet is, although 79% of new car buyers say that CarPlay matters to them, GM thinks that the, that's soft. GM thinks that if they are in the showroom and they're looking at that amazing Chevy that they're gonna be like, I don't even care about CarPlay anymore. And that is a gamble. But I think that they've decided the revenue opportunity and the data opportunity is just too great for them and the control opportunity and all of that. And I mean, we'll, see, I I, I would like to believe that some savvy, uh, companies like Ford are going to like, take the, take the opposite opinion and basically be like, this is a way for us to, uh, differentiate ourselves from our competition.
So we're gonna stick with it. Um, what I hope doesn't happen is a stampede in the other direction, which is like, finally we can all just kick these phones out of our cars. Cuz the truth is, if they do, what's gonna end up happening is that somebody's gonna sell a lot of cup holder mounts for event mounts for people's phones. Cause people aren't gonna give up their phones and their phones are still gonna be the most important thing in their lives. And the car makers are kidding themselves if they think that's not gonna continue to be the case.
Andy Ihnatko (01:13:49):
Yeah. I I think that if, if, if anything these other car makers are basically doubling down on, we're not gonna do a press release about how we're gonna kick these out, it
Jason Snell (01:13:58):
Didn't go well. We're
Andy Ihnatko (01:13:59):
Just, we're just, we're just gonna stop offering them and pretty much be sure that most people aren't going to notice, oh, I'm sure there's gonna be like, um, an Apple oriented podcast or two that's going to the great raise a stink. But again, we throw in some air fresheners throwing free, free, uh, free sport package trim. I don't think anybody, but I think we can make it. We get out of this pretty fine.
Leo Laporte (01:14:20):
All right. Uh, moving right along this time, it's a story that, uh, is not a rumor, but is actually underway. Uh, so we had heard that Apple, along with the introduction of the HomePod second generation and the HomePod Mini, um, was going to roll out the ability for these devices to alert you. Uh, should a smoke alarm go off in your or smoke alarm or carbon, uh, monoxide alarm go off in your home? And so with this, uh, essentially it works a lot like it does on the iPhone. If you go into the accessibility settings of your iPhone, there is a sound recognition, uh, feature that upon enabling, it will give the iPhone the ability to notify you when it hears certain sounds that are categorized. Uh, so you can turn it on and have the phone sort of listen to the surrounding for, uh, baby crying, um, for the sound of certain, uh, appliances running.
And in the case of, of, uh, smoke alarm going off, then it can also alert you to that. But the great thing about this feature for HomePod and why I think it makes the most sense here is because this means that while you're out of the home, if the HomePod or the HomePod Mini, uh, detect that sound, which it's all but standard as far as the, uh, actual sound of a smoke alarm goes, um, then it will notify you no matter where you happen to be. And it was just the other day I came home and I had that thought of, you know, if I was gone in the smoke alarm circle, I wouldn't even know about it <laugh>. Um, so I'm really glad that this feature is rolling out. Uh, there has long been the option of, uh, getting smart smoke alarms, but I think I've seen more awful videos of smart smoke alarms working or not working as they're supposed to, than like any other smart home category.
Uh, just person after person having to go around with a broom and trying to get their smart smoke alarms that are all networked together to turn off. Uh, I've seen so many of those videos, so I've never really dipped into that category, uh, before. And I'm glad now that this can kind of be, it's just a secondary thing. If you've got these home pods plugged in, you can turn on the feature and then they'll just be along with listening for that trigger phrase, uh, of, Hey, you know, who, then they will also, uh, work to notify you if you're out of the home. And that sound takes place. Now. It's unclear precisely or exactly where, um, this feature is going to show up. Um, some press got a notification saying that, yes, uh, this feature was rolling out today. Uh, I've been checking the home app throughout the day, uh, and specifically looking into the home pods that support it, and I still do not see a feature or an option to turn this on, so I will be keeping an eye on it. But, um, what do we think of these sort of passive, uh, features in the devices that we may have at home that are already plugged in?
Christopher Lawley (01:17:33):
It's brilliant. Uh, it's absolutely like they're there. They, they're plugged in all the time. Do something with them. If they, if they can do it, absolutely do it. Uh, I, I'm a warrior, like I'm somebody that kind of like, okay, I I'm going outta town for a week. Is everything gonna be okay? Is my house gonna get burnt down? Something like that. Like, I actually worry about that kind of stuff. Oh,
Leo Laporte (01:17:53):
Warrior, I thought you said a warrior <laugh>.
Christopher Lawley (01:17:56):
No, no, no,
Leo Laporte (01:17:56):
No, no. For you to talk about taking up an ax.
Christopher Lawley (01:17:59):
No, no, I'm not a clinging on, not a cling on, um, worry. Okay, gotcha. Sorry, sorry. Um, but yes, I, I, uh, I'm not gonna even try and say it now anyways. Uh, so I would love for like, you know, I'm gonna definitely enable this feature right away just because like, hey, if I'm gone and the smoke alarm's going off, or the carbon monoxide alarm's going off, that's something you kind of wanna know about. That's not something you wanna come back after a week long vacation to find out, oh, hey, your house is gone. Like, so, so yeah.
Andy Ihnatko (01:18:28):
Yeah, AB absolutely, it's, especially because there's some things that they, it seems like it's not co not a complicated problem. Uh, like being able to tick a box and say, if you hear a dog barking, let me know. Give me an alert if you hear, like, if you hear sirens outside, let me know if you've, uh, if you hear smoke alarms, you, this, these are the, these aren't the sort of things where you have to make sure, oh gosh, do I have, do, do I have the, the, the right ZigBee protocol installed on the smoke alarm? No. If you hear <laugh>, if you hear it, beep, beep, beep,
Leo Laporte (01:18:57):
Beep, beep, beep, beep,
Andy Ihnatko (01:18:58):
Beep, beep, evacuate the building, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Perhaps there's something that as you're picking up your Dunking Donuts would want make you wanna speed back home and see what's going on. And, and the, the, but the problem with a all these, uh, smart home features is that they're not terribly smart and they aren't, they've, you have such a, you have such a dopamine rush when you first install them, and you're able to turn lights on and off just by talking to a smart speaker. Uh, and other simple things like, like adjusting heat, uh, and, and cooling depending on the time of day, depending on the occupancy. And then there's so much processing power, just as you say, if these things are on all the time, if they're gonna be drawing power and being connected to the internet all the time, if you got time to lean, you got time to clean smart speaker, you know, figure, figure out ways to make me, uh, value this purchase more and more. Because even, even say it's not just limited to Apple. The Amazon smart speakers, Google smart speakers have the same thing. You plateau at a certain point, uh, and they're fine. They become part of the background. They become appliances when you really do think that there's a whole bunch of potential lists just not being tapped.
Leo Laporte (01:20:04):
Yeah, it's good. Uh, accessibility. It's
Jason Snell (01:20:06):
Good for remote. It, it, I love the idea is they're already there. This is sound matching. It's all pretty, uh, all pretty smart. And also, I will say, uh, to, to Chris, uh, there is no honor <laugh> in being a warrior
Leo Laporte (01:20:20):
Jason Snell (01:20:22):
That's a cling on. That's what I got.
Leo Laporte (01:20:23):
I appreciate that. I don't know why I can't just say war, worry warrior, whatever. It's okay. Try. I'm not gonna even try. Can't say it. I'm gonna blame it on the audio being passed through multiple sound streams and being that's, it's all Zoom's fault. Yes, that's right. It's,
Jason Snell (01:20:38):
It's big compression. It takes those vowels and does weird things to them.
Andy Ihnatko (01:20:42):
Mater material. It is a warrior's home efficiency protocol.
Jason Snell (01:20:45):
It's a good day to podcast
Leo Laporte (01:20:47):
<laugh>. There you go.
Andy Ihnatko (01:20:49):
I, I am Siri, son of a Alexa <laugh>, the conqueror of the Google Assistant
Leo Laporte (01:20:56):
<laugh>. Um,
Jason Snell (01:20:59):
Tell me what you would like to do or prepare to die.
Leo Laporte (01:21:03):
Kala. Uh,
Andy Ihnatko (01:21:04):
I, I noticed, I noticed there's a paint stick on the network. Would you like to set it up with Apple home?
Leo Laporte (01:21:09):
<laugh> <laugh>
Andy Ihnatko (01:21:10):
Apple Home can control the level of intensity and the level of pulses back from retribution to a simple reminder that you are the commander and they are the subservient
Leo Laporte (01:21:20):
<laugh>. My forehead is growing ridges. Um, we need to move on though. That's just stretch's, not a cling on forehead. Um, let's talk about a rumor based on a patent, which is everybody's favorite topic, because none of it means anything, but, but I am always game to talk about a future in which our screens are not, um, relegated to these tiny little frames and instead could be projected, uh, onto surfaces, or in the case of augmented reality, augmented onto a virtual space. Um, patently Apple, which is the site for, uh, covering the <laugh>, the sort of rumors based on patents, uh, category, uh, talks about a patent that Apple one for an iMac that has multiple projectors that could put, uh, stuff that's on your desktop onto your wall and onto your actual physical desktop. So, um, it would have sensors like gaze detection sensors, three dimensional image sensors, cameras, and other components that would work, uh, to sort of look at how you are looking at the screen and what it has around it, and then actually project into other areas.
Um, it says that it could use projectors to display images under nearby surfaces. Um, and then, and, and I've lost the part that was <laugh> of importance. Um, so it could almost kind of extend the display is, is what, uh, what it's getting at. So I guess I am curious to hear is this more of the sort of stop gap between a true future where any surface or even any, uh, uh, space in front of us can become a screen? Or do we think that's so far out that they do need to have this sort of middle distance where we have, uh, a screen that can kind of get bigger as it needs to, uh, by projecting onto the wall around the desktop that you, that you have?
Andy Ihnatko (01:23:29):
Gee, I don't know this, I, I'm looking at the patent and it's so broad and speculative that if the, I'm, I'm keen to wonder if it's just we need to have a patent on creating a control surface that a virtual control surface on a re on a real life object. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like it could, like, it could be, it could be something that works with, uh, that, that would work with, uh, with reality headset. It could even be something as simple as what if we have a projector that could, like we've been talking before, can create a control surface on the desk next to your mouse. It's not, it's not augmented reality or anything like that. But again, if, if you wanna put a, if an app, if Photoshop wants to put a, a controlled deck on your desk, if you could do that, uh, and as always, this, this is, this is why this is the, this is always the, oh boy, the, this is always the let's get high and stroke and stroke our beards because it could, because anything that's anytime we're, it's a, it's a, it's a patent filing.
It could just be, you know what, this is a by virtue of the fact that this is a patentable idea, we are going to patent it. We have a patent, we have patent lawyers, we have a patent department that does nothing but patent stuff. So yes, just click as in your, in your, in your docs shared docs folder on the Apple campus, there's a checkbox that says, should the should, should this be, does the document be examined for patentability? And then if it does, then <laugh>, they, they, they file for a patent and then three or four months later, people like us are saying, but what, what, what companies like Samsung don't understand is that the banana is inherently an organic object as a handset and the possibilities of <laugh>. Dude, we, I, we, we, it was a joke. We, we, it was, I had my friend in the patent office, I said, haha, what if we actually did that? And then he had nothing to do that day, and he needed, he needed some billable hours. And dude, calm down. We're not doing a banana phone.
Jason Snell (01:25:21):
<laugh>, have you ever really looked at your hand and if something was projected on your hand and your gaze detection saw that you were looking at your hand, could you use that as an extension of your desktop man?
Leo Laporte (01:25:32):
Andy Ihnatko (01:25:33):
Oh my God. What's the address of your Kickstarter right now? <laugh>, I'm funding at the, at the, at the, at the platinum t-shirt level. <laugh>,
Leo Laporte (01:25:40):
I can really do with some Cheetos right now, brother.
Christopher Lawley (01:25:44):
I mean, if we're going full theoretical at this point, like, anyway, I, so I have a 14 inch MacBook Pro. I love that size for travel. Uh, 16 inches really big. But like if I, you know, if I was sitting there and editing a video, a 14 inch screen is kind of small. So like being able to virtually extend the display, whether that's a headset or a projector or something would be kind of cool. But I mean, it's a patent. It's not happening <laugh>. Like, we're not, it's not gonna be something that shows up at ww d c, like,
Jason Snell (01:26:15):
No, no. Maybe on a, like a, somebody holding a sandwich board outside
Leo Laporte (01:26:20):
Christopher Lawley (01:26:20):
Jason Snell (01:26:21):
Yeah. Not in, in, not in the,
Leo Laporte (01:26:22):
The sky is falling and there are projections,
Jason Snell (01:26:25):
12 galaxies projecting interfaces onto the wall. Yeah.
Andy Ihnatko (01:26:29):
I, I, I, I live on the wrong coast for this kind of a joke, but I am, I am encouraging anybody who lives, like in the San Jose area, build this, leave it behind in a coffee shop, <laugh> wait, wait two weeks, and then desperately call the owners to say, uh, did I, did you get a, there was a weird sort of thing with some lenses on it and, uh, and a, a logo that was covered in te anything like that. Also a a glove. A glove and uh, the computer that might
Jason Snell (01:26:59):
Also a robot spider. Did you see the robot spider or did it, it may be in your air face,
Christopher Lawley (01:27:04):
It didn't replicate right.
Andy Ihnatko (01:27:07):
<laugh>? I think it's No, no, no. No problem. No problem. You're, you're, you're, you're fine. Look, fine. Lemme put it this way. If it's been two weeks, you really have nothing to do, right? <laugh>?
Leo Laporte (01:27:16):
Jason Snell (01:27:18):
If it were operating, you would've seen them by now. Right? It, we were operating effectively. They would've taken over your store by now <laugh>, so probably they broke.
Leo Laporte (01:27:27):
Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's good. All right. Um, moving along to something that is real and is not just, uh, okay. I don't know. Bloviation, uh, tech Crunch is report. I don't even know if that's a real word, but it just came to me. It
Jason Snell (01:27:42):
Is. And then you, the tech crunch. So, we'll, I, I remain, we'll see, I'll be the judge of this
Leo Laporte (01:27:47):
Jason Snell (01:27:48):
Is it ation?
Leo Laporte (01:27:49):
Um, so, uh, TechCrunch has a report out about Apple's high security mode successfully blocking some NSO spyware. So this was actually from a report from, uh, citizen Lab. Uh, but this is a TechCrunch report talking about that report from Citizen Lab. And, uh, basically they looked at some three zero day exploits in iOS 15, in iOS 16, and looked at the, uh, spyware from the N S O group. And while the special lockdown mode that you can turn on, uh, on your, your iOS device wasn't enabled, it was unable the, the software or the spyware, excuse me, was unable to actually get in and do what it had intended to do. So I think this is, uh, pretty cool that we do have a sort of a real world, uh, example of how lockdown mode can be helpful, but then also, um, seeing this, this sort of big name in the, in the spyware game, uh, being hampered by lockdown mode.
And it makes sense, you know, uh, apple, uh, put out the security check first, and then the full on lockdown mode is two options. And I don't know, I mean, I could see, I guess of the three of you, uh, well, I don't know. We do have the big warrior on the life of me, <laugh> Christopher does have lockdown mode turned on. I was gonna say, um, have any of you tried turning on lockdown mode just to see how it impacts your device? I have not, cuz I don't want to <laugh> to deal with that.
Andy Ihnatko (01:29:29):
Yeah. I, I, I, I turn it on to test it and yeah, you have to, the, the reasons for turning it on are, would be such that you are not even gonna question all the disabilities that you're, uh, that you're have gonna have with your phone's. Like this could very well keep me alive. It's okay to have essentially a, a 1999 flip phone. Uh, it is, it really is tied up. There's very little that I actually do. It basically put, puts you down into survival rations in terms of digital contact. But as the, uh, as the Citizen Lab report talks about the people who need lockdown mode are the people who very much, uh, the people who are installing spyware on their phones are doing. So not just for me to get an inside track on anything. It's because we want, we want to be able to kill this person, find them and kill them whenever we actually need to.
And whenever we collect the evidence that will promote us to actually do that, they actually found, uh, some of the, the malware, uh, on the phones of some, uh, activists in Mexico where again, they, the, uh, people with that kind of power can disappear you in a, in, in a right hurry. Uh, and the other, the other part of the story is that if you did not have lockdown mode turned on, they did find, uh, is there was a zero day, uh, two, two-way exploit that affected, uh, exploited home kit and iMessage in tandem to essentially own, uh, any, pretty much any modern phone. It wasn't like an old phone that had been in their drawer and had been updated in three or four years. So the struggle is ongoing and everybody who is in a position, uh, where even people like us who are like practicing journalism in a fairly safe location, the fact that we are communicating with people who may not be in safe locations means that this lockdown mode is very, very important. Because if you protect your own phone, you're protecting other people's lives as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> good, good, good for Apple. Good to have this then not only, not only was was it blocked, but it was also identified saying, Hey, look, there, there, your phone is being attacked right now. Uh, you might want a friends forensic your phone right now to find out exactly what's going on.
Christopher Lawley (01:31:27):
Yeah. Ba back in my it days, I didn't have anything super serious, but I did work for a fairly large insurance company here in California and we had some higher ups that had access to a lot of information and were not technology savvy. Uh, and they would click on things all the time and for their phones, they just use them as old school phones. They phone calls, text messages, maybe maps here and there. So I absolutely, if I was still in that position now, I absolutely would enable lockdown mode on their phones. And I honestly do not think they would know a difference. I I don't think they would know, uh, the difference. Uh, because I had many sleepless nights at that job because of like us people trying to get in. And I just had all these people that I tried to teach like, Hey, when you get this weird looking email, don't click the link <laugh>. Like, you know, the very basics, but they still click the link. Um, so yeah, lockdown mode, it, it's a nice thing. Super happy that it's there. It's not for me. Luckily, luckily it's not for me. It's not something I need, uh, but I am glad it's there for the people that need it.
Leo Laporte (01:32:39):
Alrighty, I think it's time for us to take another quick break and then we will come back with our Mac Break weekly picture of the week. Uh, I do wanna tell you about Miro who are bringing you this episode of Mac Break weekly. Miro is awesome. You gotta check out Miro. Uh, I, I I wanna ask you a question. Are you and your team still going from tab to tab, from tool to tool? And in the process of all of that context switching, losing brilliant ideas and important information along the way? Probably, but with Miro, that doesn't need to happen. Cuz Miro is the collaborative visual whiteboard that brings all of your great work together, no matter where you are, whether you're working from home or in a hybrid workspace, everything comes together in one place online creating that one great product needs input from everyone.
That is where Miro comes in with its capabilities to democratize collaboration and input. Miros Infinite collaborative whiteboard gives product teams a perpetual space where they can simply drag and drop data so nothing is lost or forgotten. All of that information is right there. Mural covers a breadth of use cases, so users can build visual assets, present findings, and run brainstorms with cross-functional teams. You can build out your product vision on a mural board by brainstorming with sticky notes, comments, live reactions, a voting tool, and even a timer to make sure you come to a consensus quickly, express yourself in creative ways and bring the whole group together around one idea. It could happen with a quick wire frame, drawing with the pen tool, putting images and mockups on the mural board. Uh, Leo and I have used Miro on Ask the Tech guys because it's so nice to, you know, we've got all of these different tools that we use to collect links and find our, um, oh, the, the, the, the emails that folks send in to ask us questions and the tweet, and to have that all on one spot where I can just see this all in one board, everything that I need for a specific episode, all right there makes it so much easier than trying to remember when I'm switching from one app to another.
Oh, what was it that I was looking for? Again, I don't remember. No. Miro is going to let you just have everything all right there. It's, uh, it, it reminds me of my messy desktop, but in the best way because everything that I need is right here. I can grab it, I can use it, and I can move on whenever I'm ready to, uh, Miro users report saving up to 80 hours per user per year by streamlining conversations and cutting down meetings. No more meetings, Miro. As a result, Miro gives your team the chance to always stay connected to real-time information, and it gives project managers and product leads a bird's eye view of the whole project to ensure nothing slips through the cracks. So be a part of more than 1 million users who join Miro every month. Get your first three boards for free to start working better at
That's m i Seriously, if you're listening to this, just go there, a, a, it's a very short url, <laugh> So, uh, it won't take you too much finger calories to be able to, uh, type that in and just check it out, even if you're just using it by yourself. It's so much fun to have this one, uh, whiteboard where I can just add everything I need to and they're, they're all of these great plugins as well. Uh, you can, I embed content and just that sort of quote unquote ones whole of truth. It's so nice. head there. Seriously, check it out. Uh, and thank you Miro for sponsoring this week's episode of Mac Break Weekly. All right, we are back from the break. Uh, you are listening to Mikah Sargent Subbing in for Leo Laport. We've got Andy Ihnatko, Jason Snell, and Christopher Lawley is special guest panelist here with us this week. And it is time for the picks of the week. This is the part of the show where everyone shares an item, an app, a service, something that they, uh, think is great and want all of you to know about. So we will start with our special guest, Christopher Lolly, what is your M B W pick?
Christopher Lawley (01:36:59):
Yeah, uh, this is one of my favorite devices, products, whatever, uh, in my backpack. It is the Anchor 7 47 Charger. It's, it's a GaN charger, but it's 150 watt charger. So this will charge a laptop to a phone, like it charges everything, but specifically it has three u s BBC ports and a U S B A port. So this is the only charger I keep in my backpack. This is it. I don't bring the MacBook Pro Charger, I don't bring my iPad charger. I don't bring, this is the only charging brick. Um, and I absolutely love this thing. So when I'm in a hotel, I can charge up my iPhone, apple Watch AirPods overnight. Uh, if I'm working someplace I can charge up my MacBook. Uh, this thing is absolutely fantastic. It's a little bit on the pricey side. It, it goes on sale quite a bit, so it's usually somewhere around a hundred dollars. Um, but I absolutely love it. It's funny, uh, we did a family trip to Disneyland. My brother and my dad saw I was using that. They had a bunch of different bricks and they immediately ordered one right then and there. Uh, so it's just really convenient. Uh, I'm somebody that always has a lot of stuff in my backpack cuz I have camera gear and lenses and laptops and stuff like that. So I want to keep the weight of my backpack down as much as possible. And only having one charging brick really helps with that.
Leo Laporte (01:38:16):
Nice. Uh, yes, uh, this is a great recommendation too for checking out Camel. Camel Camel. It is spelled how it sounds, three camels <laugh>. Uh, if you go to Camel, camel, camel and you pop in the, uh, link for that anchor, uh, charger, then you will be notified when there are, uh, sales on that. And they do go on sale quite, uh, frequently so you can end up saving some money. But yes, I also have, uh, one of those anchor chargers and they are fantastic. Uh, absolutely Fantastic. Alright, let's see. Let's go to Andy Ihnatko next.
Andy Ihnatko (01:38:54):
Oh, I got a great one this week. Um, I, I am a huge fan of Adobe Lightroom. Uh, it is the, the reason why I really don't have any games on my phone is because I have Adobe Lightroom and <laugh> because like, if, if I've got like 20 minutes, I'm waiting for a train or something, it doesn't even matter if it's a photo that I took today I might find. Oh wow. That's right. I went to the metro op, met Opera like, uh, last, last October, and it's a whole bunch of pictures I didn't edit. And we're not talking about pushing sliders for brightness contrast. It's like the, the, the amount of control you have over the final result. And you find, and just like with a game, I just get into this mode where it's like, oh, I kind of, I, I want the, I, I want a little bit more detail in the eyes.
Can I bring out, okay, now let's, let's change the color grading like this. And, and with the idea that, oh, well of course when I get home, of course it's all synced to my Adobe Cloud, so I can use Photoshop or the desktop version of that room. But oftentimes like, no, actually I'll, I'll open it up in the, the desktop version or my iPad, like, no, actually on my little phone I actually got almost exactly where I wanted to go. Uh, and it, they did switch to a subscription model is 10 bucks a month with one terabyte of storage. But the thing is, Adobe's been paying off. Uh, I've had this for like, uh, almost since the subscription model started and just keeps getting better and better and better. And today they dropped a huge update. Uh, they added, uh, one thing that's really simple to explain, uh, AI-based, uh, noise reduction.
Uh, so that, uh, with my, uh, with my, with my not not great camera. When you push to high ISOs, obviously there's a lot of noise there, and it's always had a really good de-noise function, but now it's AI based, so it's much, much better. It's, it's, it's one of the reasons why when I selected this camera, I had a choice between this camera that I really, really wanted this Olympus, uh, micro four thirds or the Sony, like, like, uh, full frame or whatever. But I didn't really like it. My, my, my bet was that in the coming couple of years, AI-based, uh, de-noise is gonna be good enough that the ISO is not gonna matter. And now it absolutely doesn't matter. But the really cool thing, like the absolute like blow your socks off demo, they added, uh, selections, uh, a couple years ago and they started off with, okay, now I can basically, you know, draw, draw an oval or draw, use the, use a pencil or whatever to select something.
And I'll, uh, things will only ap uh, adjustments will only apply to this. Uh, re more recently they, they made, uh, more specific AI-based, uh, selections where select the subject of the photo, select just the sky, uh, stuff like that. Now they've done it. So I'll just, let me just quickly walk you through this. I, I opened up, I only got it like a couple hours ago, and so I opened up this picture from this curtain call at the Met. There are three people on stage, the, the, the tenor who's taking his biz bow, and a couple of supporting players who are like just behind it. So I said, okay, like, uh, select a mask automatically. So, oh yeah, I wanna select the subject, figuring that it would maybe be smart enough to figure out that the guy in the center is the subject. No, it said, oh, I identify three people.
Do you wanna select this guy, this guy, or this guy? And as you hover your mouse over it, these individual people, like you see, like they're, they're outlined in red to show what you're selecting. So I said, no, I want person one. I want this guy. And then <laugh> explains, okay, do you want the entire person or do you want just the facial skin? Just the body, skin, meaning in this case it's the, the neck, the hands, and the arms. Do you want just the eyebrows? Just the, the, the eyes sclera, like the whites of the eye, just the iris and pupil, just the lips, just the hair, just the clothes, just the facial hair. And these are all check boxes. So I can say I actually, I'm having problems with highlights, like on his forehead, uh, and on his cheek. So just gimme this facial skin.
But I could simply say, I want, I think there's more color that can get out of like his eyebrows, his mustache, and his hair. So click, click, click. And now sudden even having to mask all those things, boom, they're selected. And of course I can modify those if I want to, but just out of the box it is bang on. Uh, and this is the desktop version. I just checked, like the mobile version. So obviously this kind of power isn't in the mobile version, but oh my goodness. Uh, the stuff that you can do without even having to go into Photoshop without having to be particularly intelligent about it, uh, is just, this is one of those wow moments that makes you, for, makes me forget that I've spent probably $380 <laugh> on this app over the past like three or four years. Cuz oh boy, does it justify it.
Every ti, every time you have a photo that you, you know, that you can make more of it, or my goodness that this is good, but can be great. Now, the, the through line from what the, your phone took or what your camera took to the thing that you're posting on Instagram, or the thing that you're printing out and hanging on the wall and that you hope will be there. Like, well, you'll, when when you, when you, when you go, uh, when, when you, when you're pulled outta your, your house, uh, feet first for the last time, your kids are gonna want that sofa picture. That's such a, a linear progression right now. Really, really happy for it. It's 10 bucks. It's 10 bucks a month, uh, for 10 bucks a month, you get the desktop version and the phone version. If you go for 20 bucks a month, you also get the iPad version, you get the Photoshop, uh, you get the full Photoshop, and you get a whole bunch of other things too. I've, I subscribe to the, the Photoshop plus Light ReMed edition. And again, have, I was skeptical at first, but oh boy, it's like, it's like Christmas every two or three months when they add enhancements of this scale to it, I'm very, very happy.
Leo Laporte (01:44:01):
That is awesome. Uh, yeah, I didn't realize that it has become that full featured. Yeah. Uh, all right. Let us go to Jason Snell.
Jason Snell (01:44:10):
I got a conceptual pick this time, which is, I'm picking, I'm picking the screenshot utility that's already built into Mac Os because I keep getting asked, what screenshot utility should I use? Because I need to pick a lot of screenshots for work, for documentation, for whatever it is. And my answer is always, well, what, and there are reasons, right? But what are you missing that's built into Mac Os? And I, I just wanna detail some things here. In case you don't know, command shift three takes a picture of your screen or screens and saves it to a folder. Okay? Command shift five, if you don't know a few years ago was introduced. Command shift five brings up a whole floating display that lets you pick. Do you want to do a selection? Do you wanna do the whole screen? Do you want to do a screen recording?
Also, very helpful. If you haven't done that, you can pick what, you can set a timer, you can pick what folder you wanna save your screenshots to. It's very helpful. And it's, and it's built right in. And then there's, and th this is also useful by the way, if you want to take a screenshot of you writing a note in Apple Notes, apologizing for something on social media. I love that Use for it <laugh>. But here's what I wanted to say, uh, about the things you don't know. So command shift four lets you, by default select something, it actually gives you a crosshair and you can drag a selection and screenshot just that selection. But it gets better if you do command shift four and then press the space bar. You get a little camera icon and you can pick a single window and screenshot it, which is very convenient, but it gets better if you do that, any of these screenshot commands.
And you hold down the option key. It doesn't grab the, uh, the drop shadow on that screenshot, cuz sometimes it can be you take a screenshot of a window and you're like, well, why is it so huge? And the answer is, there's this giant shadow that OS 10 has always since the very beginning, put B behind it and it makes the window huge when it should be small. And then, let me think. Lemme tell you the one screenshot shortcut that will sh change your life because it changed mine, which is, if you've ever been in that thing where you're like, oh, I should share this in Slack, I'll take a screenshot of it and then switch to Finder and go to the screenshot folder and find the file by sorting by date, and then I'm gonna drag it and where's the slack window? And oh, there it is.
And here it is in the Slack window, and now I'm gonna upload it and share it with my friend or in an iMessage or whatever. Uh, Kamen four, hold down the control key while you take the screenshot and you know what happens. It doesn't save your screenshot to disk, it puts it on the clipboard, and then you just switch to Slack or iMessage or wherever or, or Word or Google Docs and just do Command V and paste it in. No garbage on your hard drive, nothing to worry about. It works with all the other shortcuts. And that's the one that changed my life. I think it'll change yours. Hold down the control key while you take the short, the screenshot. And you don't have to do any file management. It's not necessary. And in fact, if you decide, oh, I wanna, I want to view this.
Did you know that the preview app, another fine piece of software that's built into every Mac, if you've got an image on the clipboard and you open preview and do Command n, it takes the clipboard and just makes a new image with the contents of the clipboard because it knows that that's what you probably want to do. So anyway, lots of reasons to use screenshot utilities that add, add features. But let me tell you the basic thing is, uh, the stuff that's built into your Mac does a lot. It's really worth learning those little keyboard shortcuts, especially holding down the control key to put it on the clipboard.
Andy Ihnatko (01:47:31):
D don't you love these features inside the os where there's not a shred of doubt in your mind that this is a case of Apple's own developers solving their own problems, Uhhuh, <laugh>, Uhhuh and May, and maybe not telling the product, the, the, the manager about it. That's the way they put in this wonderful extra feature that saves their, saves, their saves time for them and incidentally will also help the users. <laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:47:53):
Yeah, it's true.
Jason Snell (01:47:54):
Is quite nice. Yeah, control key. Just remember that one. If nothing else sticks with you from this spiel, just think about that because how many times do you take a screenshot and then go find it and then drag it somewhere and then delete it, right? Like, you don't need to do that. Stop it. Don't do it. Put it on your clipboard. It re it's like a reduce reuse, recycle for a screenshot,
Leo Laporte (01:48:12):
<laugh>. Nice. All right. Uh, to round things out, my pick of the week is a, uh, retro skin from Slick Wraps. Uh, Rosemary Orchard recently joined me, well actually she was on Mac Break weekly last week, but was here in person, uh, in the studio. And she had, uh, talked about slick wraps. They, they're these sort of vinyl coverings for different devices and they make a really cool retro skin for the Mac. Well, they make it for a lot of different devices. So you can get a, uh, version of this for your Mac, for iPad, all sorts of, um, apple stuff. I've got one for the Apple Pencil. I have not been brave enough to put it on yet cuz it's a little bit more involved <laugh>. Um, but this is the top of my MacBook Air and this is the bottom of my MacBook Air.
And this is the blue MacBook Air. So it is the fingerprint magnet and that I, I got over that quickly, but it is kind of nice now that, uh, it has this really cool sort of yellow white, um, cover on it that will not show fingerprints. And then you can get it in different pieces. So you can just get the top and the bottom. Uh, but they also make a, uh, spot internally that you can apply as well. And it has the Apple logo there in the corner. Um, and it's just a, a fun little way to customize your Mac a little bit if you'd like. Um, as I said, they have this for, uh, your iPhone iPads. They make them for the cases as well. So Rosemary has one on her, um, keyboard case for the iPad. And so she, she was able to quickly distinguish between, um, mine and hers because we both obviously were using iPads for, um, iOS today.
And once she, once she brought that in, I thought, oh, I've gotta have one of those tonight order them. They come very quickly and they've got a great policy called the Goof uh, policy where if you mess up, then as long as it's within 30 days of your order, they will send you a new one, um, to apply with, you know, suggestions for how to do it the right way, <laugh> if you, if you happen to mess up. So, um, it's a bit of an investment, but it's a good investment in the end because you know that you've got that to kind of, uh, pad you if you, if you mess up and they're really well priced. Um, the retro skin I mentioned was, is is currently $23 or about $23. Um, and so if you're looking for a way to maybe add a little bit of protection to your device or to not have those fingerprints all over everything, you might check it out.
They also make, uh, custom, so you can choose to put, uh, photos or maybe a design. Uh, and then they also have this really cool, um, for a lot of the phones, they have this sort of see-through version where it will show you the chips inside of, it's called irap. Um, and so it'll show you what it looks like inside of your phone, which I think is kind of cool, um, as well. So those are a couple of, of options for you to check out. And those all come from slick wraps. Um, so yes, uh, consider checking that out. And now is the time where I say a lot of things <laugh>, because this is the end of the episode. Uh, if you would like to tune in to watch the show live, you should head to every Tuesday around about 11:00 AM Pacific time or so.
Um, there you will be able to watch the show on many a streaming platform. We have a bunch available. So, uh, whether it's it's, uh, Twitch or it's YouTube Live or in other places, we're streaming all of those places. And then we think that, of course the best way to get the show is by subscribing to the show. You do that by going to TWIT TV slash mw, that's Mac Break Weekly. Uh, from there you will see two buttons. You can click subscribe to audio or subscribe to video. So you can choose the video version of the show or the audio version of the show. And we have a bunch of different platforms listed, of course, also just the straight up RSS link. So Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, and many more to make sure that you are able to get the show as soon as it's available and edited and put together so nicely.
Uh, after we have recorded, um, let's see, what else? Oh, uh, club Twit, consider joining the club at twit tv slash club twit. Uh, when you join the club starting at $7 a month or $84 a year, you will not only be supporting us and making sure that we can continue to do these shows and bring them to you, but you also get every single Twitch show with no ads because you in effect are sponsoring the, the show. So all of the content, no ads, and you also get access to the Twit plus bonus feed that has extra stuff you won't find anywhere else behind the scenes before the show. After the show, uh, special events will all get published there and access to the members only Discord server. A fun place to go to chat with your fellow club TWIT members and also those of us here at twit.
Uh, my co-host on iOS today, Rosemary Orchard is an incredibly active member of the Club. Twit Discord, always responding to folks and lots of great stuff there. So consider joining the club. Um, I say starting at $7 a month because we did give people the option. Some folks said, Hey, I'd like to give you more than $7 a month. So we, uh, enabled that feature and I think that's because we continue to try to make the club more valuable over time. We have added more stuff to the club, including the Untitled Linux Show, which is a show all about Linux. Uh, Paul t's Hands on Windows program, which is a short format show where Paul Throt covers Windows, tips and tricks. Uh, my show Hands on Mac, which is also a short format show where I cover, uh, apple tips and tricks, so not just the Mac, but also iPhone, iPad, et cetera. And the newly relaunched home theater geeks featuring Scott Wilkinson, uh, where he is talking every week about home theater subjects and occasionally talking to, uh, some big names in home theater, including the guy who is responsible for the t h in T H X. I wish I could think of his name off the top of my head, but, uh, Thomas Hamilton. Thank you.
Andy Ihnatko (01:54:32):
Thank you.
Leo Laporte (01:54:33):
Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>,
Andy Ihnatko (01:54:34):
So that's Hamlin, uh, my, I might be wrong on Hamlin, but Hamlin, something like that.
Leo Laporte (01:54:38):
Yes. Uh, so that is the Home Theater Geeks Program, all available twit tv slash club twit to join the club. All righty, Christopher Lolly, we'll start with you. Where can folks find your great work online, should they want to check out what you're up to?
Christopher Lawley (01:54:56):
Yeah, thank you for having me. Um, you can find all my stuff on YouTube, just Christopher Lolly, l a w l e y or you can go to the, uh, and all my links are there to Macedon YouTube, all my various projects and stuff like that.
Leo Laporte (01:55:12):
Beautiful. Uh, thank you so much for your time today and for being on the program. We appreciate it and, uh, would love to have you back again in the future.
Christopher Lawley (01:55:20):
Thank you.
Leo Laporte (01:55:22):
All right. Up next, Andy Ihnatko from W G B H in Boston.
Andy Ihnatko (01:55:27):
Uh, it's Tomlinson Holman. Sorry, I got that.
Leo Laporte (01:55:29):
Thank you. Tomlinson
Andy Ihnatko (01:55:31):
Holman. But anyway, uh, <laugh>. Yeah, uh, actually I was on the, a little bit early this week, so we can, if you go to wgbh, you can hear the show that I did yesterday, next week. I'm on Thursday, I think at 1230. Go to again wgb to listen to it live or later.
Leo Laporte (01:55:46):
Beautiful. And last but sweetly not least, Jason, six colors. Now. <laugh>.
Jason Snell (01:55:53):
Thank you Mikah. Uh, good to have you here. The last thank you weeks, thank you for sitting in for Leo, uh, six for all my Apple and other tech related stuff. And if I had to, Leo always asks me to promote one thing, so I'm gonna do it, uh, The downstream podcast I do with Julie Alexander. It's all about the world of streaming media. We dropped an episode today, it's actually pre-record cuz she's on vacation, but if you've ever wondered why it is that sitcom reruns are very successful on streaming and yet new sitcom intellectual property never comes from streaming. We spent a good half hour pondering like, why is it that str that streaming services are great for old sitcoms, but terrible at making new sitcoms. So yeah, if you're interested in the world of streaming media, check out downstream. Julia, I am there. Julia, however, is brilliant and knows a lot, so I'm also present
Leo Laporte (01:56:47):
<laugh>. That sounds awesome. Yes, definitely check that out. And, uh, you can find me at Mikah Sargent on many a social media network or head to Chi, that's C hhi h hua, h hu, where I've got links to, uh, the places I'm most active online. Thank you all for tuning to this episode of Mac Break Weekly. Now get back to work because break time is over.
Jason Snell (01:57:11):
There is no honor in break time.
Rod Pyle (01:57:15):
Hey, I'm Rod Pyle, editor-in-Chief VAD Astra magazine, and each week I joined with my co-host to bring you this week in space, the latest and greatest news from the Final Frontier. We talk to NASA chiefs, space scientists, engineers, educators and artists, and sometimes we just shoot the breeze over what's hot and what's not in space books and tv. And we do it all for you, our fellow true believers. So whether you're an armchair adventurer or waiting for your turn to grab a slot in Elon's Mars Rocket, join us on this weekend space and be part of the greatest adventure of all time.

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