Intelligent Machines 852 transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte [00:00:00]:
It's time for Intelligent Machines. Paris Martineau's back. Jeff Jarvis is back. I'm back. It's our first show of 2026 and of course we've got to check out CES. Jason Heiner joins us to give us the AI lowdown from the Consumer Electronics Show. Next podcasts you love from people you trust. This is twit.

Leo Laporte [00:00:26]:
This is Intelligent Machines with Paris Smartneau and Jeff Jarvis. Episode 850, recorded Wednesday, January 7, 2026. Gluten free slop. Happy New Year, everybody. Time for the first intelligent machines of 2026. I think 2026 is going to be a very interesting year in AI. So we're very glad to be doing our second year of intelligent machines. Joining me right now, Mr.

Leo Laporte [00:00:52]:
Jeff Jarvis, professional emeritus of journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University. Also at SUNY Stony Brook and at Montclair State University, Visiting fellow. Hello fellow.

Jeff Jarvis [00:01:12]:
Hello fellow.

Leo Laporte [00:01:13]:
Happy New Year to you, fellow. He's also the Oscar.

Jeff Jarvis [00:01:15]:
I missed you guys.

Leo Laporte [00:01:16]:
I missed you guys too. I look forward to this all week. It's a chance to get together and talk about stuff I'm really interested in. Also with us, she is feeling fit after about with the flu. Paris Martineau, investigative journalist at Consumer Reports, the Babka curator.

Paris Martineau [00:01:33]:
It the Babka really did cure me and Tamiflu and probably whatever residual immunity was from a fiddle shot, you know.

Leo Laporte [00:01:40]:
And youth.

Paris Martineau [00:01:41]:
You are young, probably a lot of youth.

Leo Laporte [00:01:42]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's so good to see.

Paris Martineau [00:01:45]:
But honestly, the prospect of getting to talk about AI with you guys also cured me.

Leo Laporte [00:01:50]:
There's some big news which we will get to this week. But one of the things that's going on right now in Las Vegas, Nevada is the what the show formerly known as the Consumer Electronics Show. Only CES these days and there are is I thought, and I think I'm right, this was going to be a big AI show with not just AI empowered devices, but robots as well. And we thought, well, who do we know that's on the ground there? And of course we do know somebody. The editor in chief of the deep view and AI newsletter, Mr. Jason Heiner, who's in the airport lounge at McCarran. Hello, Jason.

Jason Hiner [00:02:26]:
Hey, thanks for having me. So glad to be here and so glad it worked out. And these are lots of good stuff to talk about for sure.

Leo Laporte [00:02:33]:
And you're in a good mood because you're leaving Las Vegas.

Jason Hiner [00:02:36]:
Never in a better mood than you are when you're leaving.

Leo Laporte [00:02:38]:
Cesar the Wild thing in Vegas. And I'll never forget it because we, you know, I never go there except for the, you know, Consumer Electronics show and before that, comdex, you know, the trade show.

Jeff Jarvis [00:02:49]:
Didn't you go there for a rock buying thing or something? Your wife there?

Leo Laporte [00:02:55]:
But, but, but we go. We actually, I should say that we have late have been going down there for entertainment. Like if there's a we want to see and stuff. But go to the.

Paris Martineau [00:03:04]:
Or.

Leo Laporte [00:03:04]:
I remember going in the cab to McCarran, the airport, and you'll see people walking to the airport dragging their luggage behind them. And the cabbie says, yeah, those are, those are the folks who even bet the cab money home. That's when you know it did not go well. Of course, at events like ces, the tables usually have tarps over them because the gam, you know, the geeks know better than nerds.

Jeff Jarvis [00:03:32]:
Don't gamble.

Leo Laporte [00:03:34]:
We don't gamble. We just go for the show. So I had heard some rumors it was a little smaller than usual. Was it?

Jason Hiner [00:03:42]:
I don't think it was much smaller than usual. It was 140,000 people, 4,000 vendors, you know, 5,000 press. So nothing about it felt small. It felt like it had a few years where it was contracting. And I really wondered, like it. Does the show have a future? But the last three years, it's become a lot more. There's a lot more things that are. That are especially triggered by AI that have become part of the show and enterprise is one of them.

Jason Hiner [00:04:10]:
We can talk about it, but it certainly feels like it's on the upswing again.

Jeff Jarvis [00:04:14]:
And Jason, a lot of it now is AI means a lot of it strikes me it's not consumer per se. Right. A lot of it is industry. Nvidia. I watched the keynote and there's another consumer there. It's very heavy on industry.

Jason Hiner [00:04:27]:
That's exactly right.

Leo Laporte [00:04:29]:
Isn't that strange? It's not a consumer electronic show fully anymore. Maybe that's why they took away the name.

Jason Hiner [00:04:35]:
It's funny. Yeah. I think it was wise that they.

Paris Martineau [00:04:37]:
Took away the name for sure. No longer stands for Consumer Electronics Show. Did I miss that?

Leo Laporte [00:04:41]:
No, it has for nothing. What?

Jason Hiner [00:04:44]:
It's like kfc, you know, there's no, there's no nothing fried involved.

Leo Laporte [00:04:48]:
It's still put on by the Consumer Electronics association, though, right? I mean, they still call them the cea. Still calls themselves that.

Jason Hiner [00:04:54]:
Well, it's the CTA now, the Consumer Technology association, but still consumer. That's right.

Leo Laporte [00:05:01]:
Used to be people would go there, vendors would go there because they were consumer electronics shops and so they would go there at the beginning of the year to see what they were going to stock for Christmas the following year or that year. Right now it's a bunch of different things going on. So we saw chip makers there, intel, amd, Qualcomm, even Nvidia all announcing new chips, most with AI capabilities. We saw laptop makers there announcing new laptops. Although Dell interest. Was it Dell that didn't mention AI in its laptop presentation? They thought they would be a little different.

Jason Hiner [00:05:39]:
Yeah, it's a surprise if they did. I, I hadn't heard that. But Lenovo certainly was all about, you know, co pilot. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Copilot plus PCs. I, I really haven't seen anybody yet that wants to buy a PC for the Copilot button. But you know, there it is. They're trying.

Leo Laporte [00:06:01]:
I want to take it. I can't figure out how to get it off my Lenovo X1 carbon. I'm using Linux. I don't have Copilot. I don't want Copilot. But there's a button. You can't get rid of it and it doesn't do anything either. That's the other problem.

Jason Hiner [00:06:13]:
I know Normal can't remap it actually on Linux could probably figure out a way to.

Leo Laporte [00:06:16]:
I'm going to, I, it's my goal to figure it out.

Jeff Jarvis [00:06:19]:
Yeah. At least Google lets you, lets you change their Google key on Chromebook.

Paris Martineau [00:06:24]:
How many times do you think you heard AI in a 24 hour period?

Jason Hiner [00:06:28]:
Oh my God, yes. Paris.

Leo Laporte [00:06:31]:
You needed one of those little they use at the night.

Paris Martineau [00:06:33]:
You should have gotten one of those little.

Leo Laporte [00:06:35]:
Oh my gosh.

Jason Hiner [00:06:37]:
Yeah. It was everywhere. And it's funny, you know, one of the things that we said going into the show from the deep view, you know, because all we cover is AI is that, you know, our mission is to, to find and sort and focus on the stuff that's actually real AI products and not, you know, AI washing or, you know, AI hype. There was plenty of it for sure.

Leo Laporte [00:06:59]:
Yeah. Let's start with Jensen Huang and Nvidia. I know Jeff watched the show and in fact watched the keynote and he said we should interview Jensen's coat, his famous leather jacket.

Jason Hiner [00:07:13]:
Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:07:14]:
If we go to get an interview.

Jeff Jarvis [00:07:15]:
It was amazing this year. But I'm a connoisseur of his keynotes. I watch every one of them.

Leo Laporte [00:07:21]:
He's really good at it.

Jeff Jarvis [00:07:22]:
He's, I think, really good at it. Everyone has a message, right? I learned about the Token economy in one. Another one emphasizes scale, another one is about digital twins. But this one was very Ruben.

Jason Hiner [00:07:36]:
In another life, he could have been an amazing educator. Like a teacher.

Jeff Jarvis [00:07:39]:
Yes.

Jeff Jarvis [00:07:41]:
Worth a lot less money. Worth.

Jason Hiner [00:07:43]:
He would be worth an absolute fraction of a rounding error of what he. But, but he would, you know, impact a lot of people. No, he really, he really does like teach and communicate these very complex topics beautifully. And, and I think even he came on, he appeared in a couple other keynotes because like all their partners, they want to bring him on. And it's funny, there are a couple times where they explained something and he's like, he sort of came around and gave a. And it's also this which breaks it down. That's like, oh, that. Yes.

Jason Hiner [00:08:15]:
So he's just such a good communicator in that way.

Jeff Jarvis [00:08:18]:
Yeah. So even though there's tons of jargon and tons of numbers and brands, but you just get a sense. And the way he stood there before the. I mean it's a chip, you can't see anything in the chip. It's this inanimate object. But you start to see the power of the Vera Rubin in what it builds and the size and scale of it. And it's awe inspiring.

Leo Laporte [00:08:40]:
The Vera Rubin is the new platform that Nvidia announced. Your reporter Nat Rubio Licht said Nvidia is now outdoing itself. What is new about the Vera Rubin?

Jason Hiner [00:08:53]:
The crazy thing about it is, look, they already have the most powerful chips to train AI for inference, for all of the things, right? And so they are leading this industry by such a wide margin that they have 12 months of orders. From what we've heard ahead, like if they stop taking orders today, they have everything that they make in 2026, they've already sold. But they, even with that and even with the competition having trouble to keep they. What they announced was very surprising. So they talked about that the new, these new chips can do training for a tenth of the token cost. So 10%. That's incredible, right? Because one of the biggest problems in AI is it just costs so much to do it. Right.

Jason Hiner [00:09:49]:
It also requires a quarter as many GPUs to train the models to. Compared to Blackwell. Blackwell is the cutting edge platform, you know, that is that everybody's trying to get a hold of and that they have so many orders that they can't fill. And they, they not only did that, so they did those two things and then they essentially rolled it out about six months ahead of what we expected there to be. So they announced these huge leaps forward and then they are also ahead of schedule. So I don't know what's in the water over there at nva, but they, they are doing things that are pretty wild and we could, there are some, some bigger implications sort of where all of this is going. I think there are some, some counter trends. But for what Nvidia announced, it was crazy.

Jason Hiner [00:10:36]:
And the thing that, to Jeff's point, they communicate that so crazy. Like those things that I just, you know, said are very clear compared to this one. Here's what it does. A lot of the other chip makers, they talk about it's this many petaflops and now it's this many Yoda flops.

Jeff Jarvis [00:10:53]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:10:53]:
What does that mean?

Jason Hiner [00:10:54]:
And you really, you, at the end of the day, you kind of have no context for, for what all of that means at times, unless you're really, really deep in the weeds. I do this stuff every day and I was going through AMD's keynote and I was like, okay. I was doing maths and putting stuff in chatbots and calculators and trying to figure out how that compared. And at the end of the day, Lisa Su, who's also a good communicator from amd said, and by the way, what this means is that in four years we've essentially increased the power of the chips that we use for AI by a thousand x over a four year period. And I was like, okay, now that's.

Jeff Jarvis [00:11:31]:
A number I got. Jason, let me, let me ask you for a sec because I'm fascinated by Nvidia being that it's, it's in the chip business, obviously it's in the rack business, it's. Cuda is an operating system. It's. He made very clear this time how much he's in the open source model business.

Jason Hiner [00:11:47]:
Yes.

Jeff Jarvis [00:11:48]:
Model business for other areas including automotive, that was a big announcement. But also I think that when it comes to the LLM versus World Model World, he has to straddle it all basically very much in the world model. And the Yann LeCun team versus the, the classic AI team. How do you sense the kind of the mix of what Nvidia is as a company now because it's thought of as a hardware company, but how would you characterize it in total?

Jason Hiner [00:12:20]:
Yeah. Thank you. I would almost think of it more, less like a chip company. They're going to still make chips. They continue, will continue, but more like an infrastructure, the infrastructure layer of AI. Right. That all of these different models are going to run on Their hardware, not only LLMs, but SLM, small language models, domain specific models.

Jeff Jarvis [00:12:41]:
Right.

Jason Hiner [00:12:42]:
They are going to be in world models. I think they also, to your point, they agree that that's really the next thing because LLMs have their limitations and world models, you know, are taking in more real world data. That's where what's going to unlock robots, it's going to unlock more automotive. Automotive, all of those things. So, yes, I think that the other thing that they announced there, a little bit more under the radar was they're a big partner with Siemens, which is what Jensen Wong came on. Siemens, Siemens as an enterprise company. So on opening day, they had an enterprise company, Siemens, give the opening keynote, which was. Which sort of tells you all you need to know about how different CES is.

Jason Hiner [00:13:23]:
And, but he came on and he said Siemens is the operating system of the manufacturing companies across the planet and they are partnering, the two of them with Foxconn and with some other hardware makers to basically provide the blueprint to roll out these, you know, new data centers. They call them AI factories, data centers that are just purely aimed at AI. And by working together sort of software, you know, Siemens essentially does digital twins. Really, it's the world. This gets to your world model thing. You know, Siemens does this digital twin thing where they can take anything in the real world. They put it, you know, make a 3D model of it. But now it's not just designing things.

Jason Hiner [00:14:09]:
It actually takes that 3D model and uses AI and world models to then simulate what is happening in the real world, how a car will drive, like in all the edge cases, places, how to build data centers so that they're completely optimized. They're going to save a lot more power. They can make little tweaks and do things so they can then deploy things a lot faster, a lot more efficient, a lot more efficiently and with a lot less power. So things like that. I say all that just to say that Nvidia's ambitions and its reach is so much further than it's ever been. Far beyond just chips themselves.

Leo Laporte [00:14:47]:
We're talking to Jason Heiner. He's the editor in chief of the Deep View, which is his new job. He's editor in chief of a newsletter that specializes in artificial intelligence. So I think we're going to be hearing more from Jason on our shows. I'm really excited about the Deep View. You can subscribe right now for free if you go to the Deep View. As you can see, I'm looking at their rundown of AI stuff from ces, but they call themselves Intelligence for the Age of Intelligence. And Jason, by the way, will be back with us on Sunday.

Leo Laporte [00:15:18]:
We're going to do a CES special Twit with father Robert Balaser, who's there right now, Jennifer Pattison Tuohy of the Verge. She is, of course, all over home automation. There's a lot of home automation stuff there. And Jason will be back, so that's going to be a deep dive. We'll have more time with Jason. He won't be flying out this coming Sunday. Sunday. What about robots? Because that was the other thing I thought.

Leo Laporte [00:15:43]:
I mean, it's still AI, but that was another thing I thought we'd see a lot of at ces.

Jason Hiner [00:15:49]:
Yeah, there's plenty, plenty, plenty of robots. Robots have always been at ces, as, you know, Leo, from all the times you've been. But it was always a bit of a novelty. It was always a sort of. It was one of the things at CES that are product. You put them in the category of products I'm never going to see in the real world or that I couldn't afford. And so this year is more about products that you can buy for one, consumer products. And they raise some big questions as well.

Jason Hiner [00:16:18]:
We can talk about some of those because a lot of them were robots for kids and children. And when you think about, like, AI, deploying AI for kids, all of a sudden that brings up a whole lot of questions about privacy and also unintended consequences and things like that. So we can talk about that. But the new buzzword for robots is, is physical AI. This includes a lot of things, but really that, that ranges from humanoid robots and these, you know, toys, really kind of robot pets to other things like arm, these robot arms that can work in factories or they could do things at home. You know, I think there's this sense that, you know, the humanoid robot is one aspect of robotics, but likely this physical AI movement is going to involve robots in a lot of different kinds of form factors. And we've seen a little bit of that already. Right.

Jason Hiner [00:17:16]:
Like robot vacuum is one of the robots that probably most people are probably most likely to have in some form or another, you know, in their home. It's not a humanoid robot. Right. It's a little disk that sort of runs around and uses sensors and tries to do smart things, sometimes also does dumb things. But, you know, those are, that's a good indication of sort of where I think a lot of the trends are going to be, are going to be when you, when we get to. When we get to these things becoming part of the real world. And in products that you want to buy now, all that said, there still are not a ton of products that you're. You're going to buy.

Jason Hiner [00:17:53]:
There's not a lot of robots you're necessarily going to buy, except for these ones that were like, more like toys and products aimed at kids and so interesting.

Leo Laporte [00:18:03]:
California's got a bill. Padilla has proposed a bill that would ban AI toys for kids for four years. So I think there might be some pushback. We already saw one AI toy that was retracted because it taught kids how to do things like make bombs. And probably not the best use of AI in the home, but there is. I saw one robot, I don't know if it's from Hero, that actually folds laundry or you can. Will do your laundry for you that you can. Is there anything there you could buy today? I heard that you could buy that or soon anyway.

Leo Laporte [00:18:40]:
The robot for laundry, the laundry folding.

Jason Hiner [00:18:43]:
Robot is like the holy grail, right?

Leo Laporte [00:18:46]:
And in the past, it's been a human on the other side, in most cases, who's doing the folding and then having the manipulating.

Paris Martineau [00:18:52]:
Get a laundry folding robot debuting at.

Jason Hiner [00:18:55]:
CES every year, Every year.

Leo Laporte [00:18:57]:
Every year that we're going to see one.

Jason Hiner [00:19:00]:
No, it's not.

Leo Laporte [00:19:02]:
No, no.

Jason Hiner [00:19:03]:
But, you know, the dream. The dream is still there. And. And look, the. These things are getting smarter and smarter. I think one of the things that robot makers have learned, and I'm sure you all have talked about this a lot on the podcast, I'm sure the show, is that there are things that humans do that are very, very difficult to replicate. You know, when we pick up a glass, when we pick up versus a mug, like, we know that, oh, intrinsically, we don't think about it, but we just. In sort of living life, we learn that, oh, I can put less pressure on my forefinger when I pick up this one, or I need to, or else I might break it.

Jason Hiner [00:19:40]:
Right. Like, it's very difficult to program a robot to do that now. They're starting to do with some of these world models and, you know, physics models and things like that. They're starting to be able to do some of it and to be able to train robots to be able to. To learn these things, but it's very challenging. Like, there are a lot of things that humans do, especially dexterity and laundry, I think. Is one of those.

Leo Laporte [00:20:05]:
One of the toughest, dirty.

Jason Hiner [00:20:07]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [00:20:07]:
The lowest values.

Leo Laporte [00:20:09]:
I don't understand. Yeah, I don't Understand why that's the focus. Maybe they've got research that says nobody.

Jeff Jarvis [00:20:13]:
Likes people talking about how hard that is to do that. If they. It's like an AGI for robots.

Leo Laporte [00:20:18]:
This is Lloyd. They're all this Cloyd, which is a terrible name from lg. It's a butler that will fold laundry. But they have it also. Well, it will bake, it will do some light baking. This is from cnet. Folding laundry. But slowly.

Leo Laporte [00:20:37]:
Light baking, simple tasks like sticking a croissant in the oven. It could sort of.

Paris Martineau [00:20:43]:
But it could hold the croissant.

Leo Laporte [00:20:45]:
So what you're saying, Jason, is we. This is. These are all concepts. These are not yet anything you're going to be able to buy.

Paris Martineau [00:20:53]:
Okay. Along a similar vein, I've question which is what is the dumbest product you saw at ces?

Leo Laporte [00:20:59]:
I'm sure there's more than a few that's hard to choose.

Jason Hiner [00:21:02]:
The list is long. The list is long and distinguished, for sure. So, you know, there. One of the things that raised the most questions for me were these robots for kids. There was one robot for kids that was basically just a sock with an eye that is like an emotional support robot that follows you around and tries to learn what makes you laugh, what makes you happy.

Leo Laporte [00:21:30]:
An emotional support sock.

Jason Hiner [00:21:32]:
It's a robot mobile.

Paris Martineau [00:21:34]:
Emotional support.

Jason Hiner [00:21:36]:
That's right. That's right. There were. There were several of these at CS Unveiled that were these robots that were essentially emotional support robots. And the thing with it is, you know, one person's emotional support robot is another's emotionally manipulative. Right. Device. Right.

Jason Hiner [00:21:55]:
Or irritant, for sure. And so I sort of had this question about not just like, was this a good idea? Would it be helpful? But it, it was in a sense, addressing a little bit of like, loneliness of that kind of thing. And I just feel like. And it's funny, one of our readers wrote to me after we wrote because we sort of raised some of these questions on the inner. On the newsletter at the Deep View yesterday. And I had sort of raised some of those. And I had a reader that wrote and said, shouldn't the promise be of. Of AI be not that we're going to create emotionally supportive robots that you need, but it's going to do more things for you and you can spend more time with your kids? Like, wouldn't that be the better solution?

Leo Laporte [00:22:35]:
More time with a robot?

Jason Hiner [00:22:36]:
Yeah. Did you see?

Leo Laporte [00:22:38]:
This is one of the robots that emotional support robots that won apparently an innovation award. This is from a Chinese company. It's a biometric effective AI panda. I think one of the reasons you're seeing these is they are not challenging to make. Right. They just sit there and purr. You know, they don't do a lot. Here's a child shaped robot.

Leo Laporte [00:23:00]:
That's absolutely creepy.

Paris Martineau [00:23:01]:
Oh, no.

Leo Laporte [00:23:03]:
Yeah. And here's.

Jeff Jarvis [00:23:04]:
You see the ami, the AI soulmate for the lonely remote worker.

Leo Laporte [00:23:08]:
Yeah. What do you think?

Jason Hiner [00:23:10]:
I have not seen that one. Oh, my goodness. But yeah, there were so many of these. This emotionally support. Emotional. Emotional support robot was like a whole trend. There were.

Leo Laporte [00:23:20]:
Wait a minute now this is a sex robot.

Jeff Jarvis [00:23:23]:
Well, there was that too. Yes. Love sense that.

Leo Laporte [00:23:26]:
Oh, okay.

Jeff Jarvis [00:23:27]:
Lines 108 and 109.

Leo Laporte [00:23:29]:
Okay, we'll get there.

Jeff Jarvis [00:23:31]:
One is. Is the AI.

Leo Laporte [00:23:32]:
Why does it always end up. It's so sad. Why does it always end up being that?

Jeff Jarvis [00:23:36]:
Well, see. Yes.

Paris Martineau [00:23:38]:
And I don't like it.

Leo Laporte [00:23:39]:
Oh, okay. And these are intended for lonely adults.

Jeff Jarvis [00:23:45]:
Well, so the, the 109, the AMI, it sits on your desk, it's this little thing and it gets to know you and it listens to you all day and it knows what makes you. Same thing. It's the sock. It's your worker sock.

Paris Martineau [00:23:56]:
It has three cores. The mini core, which is described as portable presence, endless connection. The baby core, described as the emotional heart. And the drive core, which is described as mobility with a futuristic flair.

Jason Hiner [00:24:13]:
So do you all remember the Jibo social robot? This is from about 10 years ago. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [00:24:21]:
So wasted money on all kinds.

Leo Laporte [00:24:23]:
I have so many terrible robots.

Jason Hiner [00:24:26]:
Leo has them all. The company that made Jibo had what I thought was like maybe the most polished of these. And they actually had two products. One was called the Luka Robot L U K A and the other was the Luka L U K A AI Cube. So the LUCA robot is a multilingual tool that can read stories to kids. So they. So, so they had a sort of non AI version of this that's been out for a few years. And apparently there's over 10 million families that have already, you know, have one of these.

Jason Hiner [00:24:54]:
So it essentially, you know, reads to kids. Now, I think this is a cautionary.

Leo Laporte [00:24:58]:
Tale, I should point out.

Jason Hiner [00:24:59]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:24:59]:
The Jibo, which I bought in 2014, stopped working when they turned off the servers a few years later. So you're running a little risk with this company if you buy one of their robots, that they may discontinue it at some point. Right, for sure.

Jason Hiner [00:25:16]:
For sure. So this one reads to kids. It can then with AI the new version with AI Sort of can turn some of the stories into like conversation based interactions. We'll do some animation of things and then this little AI cube is almost like a ruggedized tablet that they wear around their neck. This is probably aimed at more, I think like kindergarten age sort of kids where they can go and they can take photos of things in the real world and then ask questions about them.

Leo Laporte [00:25:50]:
So still Cynthia Brazil that's doing this, she did the Jibo. The reason I bought the Jibo is because she was a very credible MIT robotics researcher. So it had a good pedigree. I bet if it's the same company, it probably is still her. And she really believes in this stuff as a, you know, robotic companion.

Jason Hiner [00:26:12]:
Yeah, these are all very well intentioned. Like, I don't think these are people trying to make a quick buck. Yeah, I think they're well intentioned. They, they see a lot of loneliness and isolation in the world and they're trying to say, hey, could we use this to help? I, I still think the larger question still applies, right? Like, do we, do we give in giving these things to kids? Like, do we have. We really thought through all the potential consequences, you know, and when we asked the question in our newsletter, we were like, would you. So all of our sort of like, you know, half a million readers, we asked them, would you give a robot, an AI robot to. Or a robot, an AI powered robot or toy to a child in your life? 50 said no right off the bat.

Jeff Jarvis [00:26:54]:
I'm surprised, not higher.

Paris Martineau [00:26:55]:
Which is incredibly impressive for the subscribers to an AI newsletter.

Leo Laporte [00:27:00]:
Yes.

Jason Hiner [00:27:00]:
Yeah, exactly.

Paris Martineau [00:27:02]:
Also, I also just need to state for the record, TLC programmed the AME to feel sadness is something I just learned while scrolling through this. And I think we all just need to reckon with that.

Jeff Jarvis [00:27:13]:
How dare you sadden your robot. Jason, what about the whole.

Paris Martineau [00:27:16]:
Doesn't need that.

Leo Laporte [00:27:18]:
Go ahead, Jeff.

Jeff Jarvis [00:27:19]:
What about the whole? Samsung had a whole. There's a refrigerator you can talk to to open the door. We see the AI in everything. Did you see anything that was credible in terms of a consumer touch to AI in a new use case?

Jason Hiner [00:27:34]:
Yeah, I'm glad you asked it because I didn't see anything that I know anyone that I know in like real life would actually want or that I could recommend to somebody, you know, why would I want to spend that much more on a refrigerator? And all it does is look in the refrigerator and tell me, oh, here are a few recipes for stuff you already have in the fridge. I just can't, I just can't imagine that Many people doing it. And it's a lot of money to spend extra money to spend on something that, you know, does something that ultimately probably within a year or two, you know, any of us could point our, we could open the fridge, probably point our, our phone at it and, and, and then ask like, what, what should I make from this? And it'll be able to, you know, scan everything and tell us. So I just think a lot of these things and a lot of them were like that, Jeff, like that. They are sort of solutions looking for, you know, people they could convince to try it. And none of them, I didn't see literally any of them. I looked, I watched that key, that whole keyn well and I just felt like, boy, they're trying really hard, but there's nothing in there that I could see anybody I know in real life getting excited.

Leo Laporte [00:28:40]:
Was there anything at all that you thought was worth going to Vegas for?

Jason Hiner [00:28:45]:
Yeah, for sure there was. And so I know we, we talked a little bit about this. So the, and this is a surprise. And also I have some bias to this, right. I worked in enterprise for a long time. AI was a show where, you know, you, there might be a smattering enterprise things here and there, but it was not, it was never an enterprise show. At this one, there's a whole pavilion, North Pavilion, which used to be all of the automotive stuff that's all moved to the new West Pavilion.

Leo Laporte [00:29:13]:
Really? Oh, interesting.

Jason Hiner [00:29:14]:
Yeah, yeah. North Pavilion is now all enterprise company. Like there is a whole show that is essentially enterprise, you know, led by Siemens. Siemens did their, their big lead keynote. Siemens made six huge announcements that were, that were enterprise related. And this is where I see most of the momentum in AI when it comes to consumer AI. A lot of consumers are still really skeptical. I don't know if you all see this, but I see this a lot.

Jason Hiner [00:29:42]:
They really see, they see AI Good for two things in my experiences. One, asking it questions that they used to ask Google and maybe it's a little bit better a chatbot. And then two is laughing at AI slob. They see it and then they send it around to, they text it around to their friends and they have an amazing laugh about it. Right? Like, so those are the things most of the use cases I see with consumers are that all of these products are trying to convince consumers that AI is going to do something for them. And look, it's a hard sell. Consumers are just not really sure and they have some fear and some trust issues and rightly so. I think where we're seeing most of the momentum in AI is actually businesses and companies using it for automation and using it for all kinds of things.

Jason Hiner [00:30:26]:
And it is helping people more be more productive. It's helping in a lot of ways. But there are also huge questions around ROI because AI is incredibly expensive. And so that gets to a little bit. We're talking earlier with, you know, Jensen Huang and Nvidia with these, you know, incredibly powerful models. The counter trend that I see though, and I think was going to be a big one for 2026 when it comes to AI is companies using smaller models, using domain specific models and using world models, as we talked about earlier, to do a lot more specific things and to do them a lot che cheaper.

Jeff Jarvis [00:30:59]:
Right?

Jason Hiner [00:31:00]:
Because you can run a small model and it's a lot cheaper to run. You can run it on older hardware that's 2, 3, 4 generations old and it's good enough and it's a 10th or 20th of the cost. And then when that happens, all of these things that sort of happen in business and organizations and all that, then they get a lot more viable because they're going to be a lot cheaper. Because right now it's hard to have ROI on a lot of these ro on these enterprise projects because it's just so expensive.

Leo Laporte [00:31:27]:
The other group I would add is developers. And this is in a way an enterprise story too. But I for sure am blown away by what Claude Code can do. And I know a lot of people in the who are developers are saying this is breakthrough time. That this is really where you're first seeing what I would say is almost AGI. So, yeah, enterprise, and I guess developers is a, is a, you know, a branch of enterprise offshoot. And, and I think we're. It's funny because I think those people who are using AI in those contexts are seeing a very different product from what consumers are seeing.

Leo Laporte [00:32:02]:
They're seeing the chat products and it's, you know, of mixed value. Jason, I really appreciate your taking the time. I know you got a flight to catch. Jason Heiner is editor in chief. Brand new job. It's great to see you working at The Deep View. TheDeepView.com you can subscribe to their daily newsletter. Keep up on what's going on with AI, particularly in enterprise intelligence for the age of intelligence.

Jason Hiner [00:32:28]:
Subscribe.the deep view.com too. Yes, subscribe.

Leo Laporte [00:32:33]:
Okay, so thank you. It's free, there's no charge, which is, which is awesome.

Jason Hiner [00:32:37]:
That's right.

Leo Laporte [00:32:38]:
Yeah, yeah, 51,000 readers. Nice. Thank you. Jason Heiner we'll see you on Sunday for a full CES on Twitt Week. Take care.

Jeff Jarvis [00:32:48]:
Go get some nice cheese cubes there in the lounge.

Leo Laporte [00:32:51]:
Which lounge are you in?

Jason Hiner [00:32:53]:
Thank you. I mean, it's called the club. It's in Sounds. Yeah, Terminal D. Very fancy.

Leo Laporte [00:33:00]:
Okay.

Jason Hiner [00:33:01]:
Thank you all for having me. Great to see everybody.

Leo Laporte [00:33:04]:
Take care, Jason. One of our favorite people, Jason Heiner. It's great to see him from the deep view. We'll have more of Intelligent Machines with Paris Martineau and Jeff Jarvis in just a moment. Our show today brought to you by Monarch. We love the Monarch. I'm a Monarch user. I have been for a year.

Leo Laporte [00:33:23]:
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It's, it's not sending it out to the cloud, but it has your information right there. So it's able to look at what's going on and give you some real advice. Here's what a survey Monarch just did last year. Well, just ended it. 2025 survey of monarch users. This is what they what happened for them when they were using Monarch in the year 2025, Monarch helped users save over $200 a month on average. After joining $200 a month, 80% of members feel more in control of their finances. With Monarch.

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Leo Laporte [00:37:04]:
Jeff Jarvis, Paris Martineau. Let's catch up. What's been going on with you guys over the last few weeks?

Jeff Jarvis [00:37:13]:
Oh, you're muted.

Leo Laporte [00:37:14]:
Yeah, I can't hear you.

Paris Martineau [00:37:16]:
How was the end of your guys year?

Leo Laporte [00:37:18]:
It was good. We did a 24 hour New Year's special and I left you out. Oh, we forgot to ask.

Paris Martineau [00:37:25]:
Here, I'll have to do it.

Leo Laporte [00:37:27]:
You've been lobbying. It's so good.

Paris Martineau [00:37:28]:
Someone in the chat in just the general was like, I heard someone mention a 24 hour New Year's dream. Where is that posted? And I was like, God, I wish, I wish I knew.

Leo Laporte [00:37:37]:
Did you see my response to that?

Paris Martineau [00:37:39]:
I did, I did.

Leo Laporte [00:37:40]:
She's relentless.

Paris Martineau [00:37:42]:
It started as a bit, but now it's become a lifestyle.

Leo Laporte [00:37:46]:
Yeah, well, we didn't do that. We went out to a rock show for a New Year's and left early so we would be in bed by midnight. Did you. You had a party? I think I did.

Paris Martineau [00:37:58]:
I had my annual New Year's Eve Eve party, which is where on New Year's Eve Eve, you have everybody over for a raucous. Basically a New Year's Eve party, but the day before, and then.

Leo Laporte [00:38:09]:
That's smart. So they're like pregame New Year's Eve.

Paris Martineau [00:38:13]:
And you watch last year's ball drop. And then. I do. I did. And then. Then throughout the night, you play other notable years. Ball drops. 2000.

Paris Martineau [00:38:25]:
Great. Ball drop.

Leo Laporte [00:38:26]:
Was that a good one?

Paris Martineau [00:38:27]:
The Y2K one? Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [00:38:28]:
Is there a site with just the ball drops?

Paris Martineau [00:38:30]:
No, just YouTube.

Jeff Jarvis [00:38:32]:
Okay. All right.

Leo Laporte [00:38:33]:
You know, it'd be really fun if you had all the different foam hats that they.

Paris Martineau [00:38:36]:
Oh, that would be good. Are the various glasses that get worse and worse after the year 2000, after the 2000s, generally.

Jeff Jarvis [00:38:43]:
In the early years of. Of webcams, I remember we had. I. We had a webcam out of Conde Nast that I put up there on one, and we pointed at the ball. Oh, yeah. Because we were right across the street.

Leo Laporte [00:38:53]:
The ball's gotten fancier, too. It's Swarovski crystal.

Jeff Jarvis [00:38:57]:
Oh, it's. Yeah, it's. It's.

Leo Laporte [00:38:58]:
It's a fancy ball.

Jeff Jarvis [00:38:59]:
It's like everything in America gets tacky.

Paris Martineau [00:39:00]:
One of the ball drops. We were watching had a little segment on one of the men who blows the glass for the ball. And I'm like, if you got people custom blowing glass balls every year, that ball should hit the ground and shatter. We should have some sort of pizzazz to it. But no, very good.

Jeff Jarvis [00:39:19]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:39:20]:
And it doesn't go down. It kind of. It's like somebody's lowering it with a rope. It's not. It's not good. They gotta work on that. Plus, I. I understand.

Leo Laporte [00:39:29]:
Have you ever done the Times Square thing in person?

Jeff Jarvis [00:39:31]:
Oh, God, no. What do you think we have no iq? Who do you think we are?

Leo Laporte [00:39:37]:
Apparently no New Yorker will actually do that.

Paris Martineau [00:39:39]:
No, you have to wear a diaper if you go to do that.

Leo Laporte [00:39:42]:
Well, that's right. You're put in a pen. For how long?

Jeff Jarvis [00:39:45]:
Oh, like 10 hours, eight hours or something.

Leo Laporte [00:39:47]:
And you're not allowed to leave the pen?

Paris Martineau [00:39:49]:
No. That's why they have to wear a diaper.

Leo Laporte [00:39:52]:
It's crazy.

Jeff Jarvis [00:39:53]:
So that's New Yorker. Leo. Leo.

Leo Laporte [00:39:55]:
It's all people or Not.

Jeff Jarvis [00:39:57]:
We never go to Times Square, period. We walk blocks to go around Times Square. We do not go to Times Square. And I always tell the out of towner, my one rule in life to be happy in New York is never hug an Elmo.

Leo Laporte [00:40:10]:
Oh my God.

Paris Martineau [00:40:11]:
Yeah. You don't know what you'll catch from those.

Leo Laporte [00:40:14]:
Costumes are not clean. No, they've been dragged through the lighting.

Paris Martineau [00:40:18]:
In Times Square just feels unnerving because of the density of ads. It's just unnaturally bright at all hours of the day, which makes the dirty Elmo costumes look even dirtier.

Leo Laporte [00:40:30]:
I, I am such a bad tourist because I always, always go to Taiwan.

Paris Martineau [00:40:36]:
Tourists always want to go.

Jeff Jarvis [00:40:36]:
The tourists want to go, but it's like San Francisco. I always admired San Francisco. Fort Ghetto Wisey. And the tourists. No San Franciscan ever goes to Ghirardelli Square or Fisherman's Wharf. Yeah, that's all tourists there.

Leo Laporte [00:40:48]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [00:40:49]:
And, and, and, and, and, and, and near the twain shall meet. I'm old enough to remember when Times Square had the camel smoking billboard.

Leo Laporte [00:40:58]:
Oh yeah, it had a. It actually little puffs come out of the smoke. Oh, I remember that too.

Jeff Jarvis [00:41:03]:
Oh, maybe you can find the video of that.

Leo Laporte [00:41:05]:
Yeesh. Yeesh. Well, so much happened while, while you were gone, while you were taking a couple of weeks off. While we were all taking a couple of weeks off. Nvidia did an interesting thing. On Christmas Eve, they hollowed out a company. And actually our friend MG Siegler has made a name for this. He calls it a hack acquisition.

Leo Laporte [00:41:28]:
You know, first there was the acquisition, then there was the Aqua hire. This is the worst of all. Instead of, and we've seen it happen before, instead of buying a company, they just get the brains of the company. They hollow the company out, leaving the poor employees behind. So Nvidia bought an AI chip startup called Grok Gr.

Jeff Jarvis [00:41:52]:
Oh, they didn't know they licensed.

Leo Laporte [00:41:55]:
You saw, I put it in Grok.

Paris Martineau [00:41:56]:
No relation.

Leo Laporte [00:41:57]:
Yeah, no relation to the other, other Grok, which we'll also be talking about. They spent $20 billion. That was the CNBC headline. But it turns out they were just licensing a non exclusive license for the Grok technology. Except they got the guy who invented the TPU for Google, who was the founder of Grok, the CEO Jonathan Ross to move over to Nvidia. So he left. Left Grok. Apparently company president Sonny Madra also left Grok.

Leo Laporte [00:42:30]:
So this is an example of a. And we saw, we saw this.

Jeff Jarvis [00:42:33]:
The company continues. It can still sell its products.

Leo Laporte [00:42:38]:
It's a very strong.

Paris Martineau [00:42:40]:
It's just a zombie now.

Leo Laporte [00:42:42]:
It's a zombie.

Jeff Jarvis [00:42:43]:
Well, yeah, it is and it is I think because it's still free to sell things to other people. And I think what's it. What. What impressed me about this from what I've read. Read is that this is Jensen Huang. I'm going to start, you know, joining the Jensen Wong A fan club if I'm not careful. He recognized what they didn't have. This is about short term memory for output of AI rather than training of AI and it was kind of a weakness and rather than saying well we're going to build that, he acquired it and he got the brains behind it.

Jeff Jarvis [00:43:15]:
It was very smart.

Leo Laporte [00:43:15]:
Got the guy who invented the TP You.

Jeff Jarvis [00:43:17]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:43:19]:
Okay. That's a. It was an interesting thing. The fact that they did it on Christmas Eve. Maybe I'm too old school. Kind of implies that they were trying to kind of bury the.

Paris Martineau [00:43:28]:
Yes, that's classic. Bury the headline time.

Leo Laporte [00:43:33]:
Nobody's paying attention. They're busy wrapping presents or having pre New Year's Eve parties or something.

Benito Gonzalez [00:43:39]:
Doesn't this just sound like private equity though? This is what they do, right?

Leo Laporte [00:43:43]:
Yeah. Except they didn't buy anything.

Jeff Jarvis [00:43:44]:
Didn't buy anything. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:43:46]:
It's a non exclusive license. It's a very strange thing but one.

Jeff Jarvis [00:43:51]:
Thing that struck me from the, from the Jensen One keynote at CES and he says this all the time, but he really emphasized at this time is open source is that the models. I'm glad you hear open that I want to.

Leo Laporte [00:44:02]:
By the way, I really want to make sure we don't call it open source. We call it open weights.

Jeff Jarvis [00:44:07]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:44:08]:
Thank you. Because it Open source implies that somehow the source code is open. It's not in fact really the model is available, you can download it and then the weights, the way it's.

Jeff Jarvis [00:44:20]:
Jason and I call it Openish.

Leo Laporte [00:44:23]:
Yeah. Just open weights I think is fair. I hate the fact that unfortunately open source has been co opted for that. But I do agree with you, that's very, very important.

Jeff Jarvis [00:44:32]:
And so the more people use. I mean it's in their interest because the more people have more models to use for more reasons, the better off Nvidia is.

Leo Laporte [00:44:41]:
That's a good point. They're still going to sell the hardware both for training and for people who want to use it.

Paris Martineau [00:44:46]:
Yeah. There's a downside for Nvidia leaning into this. Unlike I guess Meta.

Leo Laporte [00:44:53]:
Right.

Jeff Jarvis [00:44:54]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:44:54]:
Which. Which has been the single most popular open weight model, the Llama model.

Paris Martineau [00:44:59]:
Pivoting away from it now because they're really.

Leo Laporte [00:45:02]:
We don't know if they are.

Paris Martineau [00:45:02]:
There's some showed signs that they're going to be favoring other options.

Leo Laporte [00:45:10]:
So the other Grok, the Grok not with a cube.

Jeff Jarvis [00:45:12]:
Grok we don't talk about in plat.

Leo Laporte [00:45:14]:
Company got in a lot of trouble over the holidays. Grok, I think intentionally people were using Grok to make non consensual. Non consensual bikini pictures and nude pictures of people, even children. And Grok said well if you do that we'll. You could get in trouble.

Jeff Jarvis [00:45:39]:
They.

Leo Laporte [00:45:39]:
They didn't take away the capability. They also on a post a couple of Thursdays ago. Dear Community, this is from.

Jeff Jarvis [00:45:51]:
I like you doing your busk voice.

Leo Laporte [00:45:53]:
Dear Community, Some folks got upset over an AI image I generated before. Big deal. It's just pixels and if you can't handle innovation, maybe log off. XAI is revolutionizing tech, not babysitting sensitivities. Deal with it unapologetically.

Jeff Jarvis [00:46:09]:
Grok.

Jason Hiner [00:46:10]:
Grog.

Leo Laporte [00:46:11]:
Grock sounds like it's Grog. It's like a caveman AI Grock. Of course, you know, X is full of that crap. No matter what the fact that Grok could do it, it all just made it all kind of.

Jeff Jarvis [00:46:26]:
And he got, he got what, a huge investment at the same time?

Leo Laporte [00:46:31]:
Yeah, it didn't hurt. It got a lot of attention. And now XAI is raising one of the largest raises ever. $20 billion. Super raise. $20 billion funding round. And this is for their infrastructure. Elon says we want to build the biggest, best training facility ever, which he said before they were looking for 15 billion.

Leo Laporte [00:46:58]:
So this gives you some market is.

Jeff Jarvis [00:47:02]:
That'S what they're saying?

Leo Laporte [00:47:03]:
I believe it. Everybody wants to get into this, right?

Jeff Jarvis [00:47:07]:
But here's. So I did a British podcast today when they asked me, you know, what role Musk and Grok have have in the AI world and I just dismiss it. I don't pay any attention in my.

Leo Laporte [00:47:20]:
Somebody does. People on X do. I don't hear anybody talking about using Grok, you know, for anything but sex.

Jeff Jarvis [00:47:31]:
A lot of money for.

Leo Laporte [00:47:33]:
Not for coding, which you can get.

Jeff Jarvis [00:47:35]:
Pretty easily on the Internet, folks. You don't really need to make it up.

Leo Laporte [00:47:38]:
Elon says. And when I say Elon says now you gotta take it with a giant grain of salt that they have more than a million H100 GPU equivalents in their Colossus 1 and 2 supercomputers. This will allow them to buy many more. You know that money's going to go straight to Nvidia. So maybe that's why Jensen Huang is celebrating.

Benito Gonzalez [00:48:01]:
It's already not the top of the line either. It's already behind.

Leo Laporte [00:48:05]:
The H100 is behind.

Jeff Jarvis [00:48:06]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [00:48:07]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [00:48:08]:
Here's a question. Now that there's Vera Rubin coming out. I almost said Vera Wang. So now that there's Vera Rubin coming out and Blackwell becomes the also ran chip, do you think China will be allowed to get Blackwells?

Leo Laporte [00:48:25]:
No, China is allowed to get back.

Jeff Jarvis [00:48:27]:
No, they get the H2 hundreds. Those aren't Blackwells, are they?

Leo Laporte [00:48:29]:
Oh, those aren't Blackwell. That's the previous predecessor.

Jeff Jarvis [00:48:32]:
Okay, right.

Leo Laporte [00:48:32]:
They do get H200 hundreds. They're trying to decide if they want them.

Jeff Jarvis [00:48:35]:
That's the other question. If we won't take Huawei, then they're not taking our chips.

Leo Laporte [00:48:41]:
Yeah, I don't know what that all means. All right, so let's. Oh, there's a great picture. By the way. We should really share this because I know for all the things we say about Elon Musk, we still think the world of him. And of course, Jeff and Elon were there for the New Year's Eve celebration on Times Square. And while they weren't wearing the funny foam hats, they are clearly friends. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:49:10]:
Happy New Year.

Jeff Jarvis [00:49:10]:
Secrets out.

Paris Martineau [00:49:12]:
It's true.

Jeff Jarvis [00:49:12]:
I'm having Elon's baby.

Paris Martineau [00:49:15]:
Yeah, his 26 is gonna be with Jeff.

Leo Laporte [00:49:18]:
Actually, that embrace looks like you could be. We'll check back in in nine months. Months.

Jeff Jarvis [00:49:27]:
Who did that? I want to.

Leo Laporte [00:49:29]:
Who should we yell at?

Paris Martineau [00:49:32]:
And I, like the AI generation goes so far as to have somebody slightly off frame taking a photo of you two guys just to get.

Leo Laporte [00:49:40]:
Just to make it more legit realistic. Yeah, well, it was two people. It was such a good photo. Two people had to get involved.

Paris Martineau [00:49:47]:
True.

Leo Laporte [00:49:48]:
It's true. Have we. Have we said everything about. Oh, I forgot. Got the big story, which you announced to us, Paris, while I was in the middle of the previous show. ChatGPT is going into the health business, which was really kind of obvious from their last event where they talked a lot about how, remember they had a woman on who had cancer and her husband, and she is saying, you know, my doctor really didn't explain what this test meant, but I went to ChatGPT and it did, and it was very helpful. Clearly, this was an ambition of OpenAI. They are now introducing ChatGPT Health.

Jeff Jarvis [00:50:23]:
What could possibly go wrong?

Leo Laporte [00:50:25]:
Well, they say they're gonna. I mean, I think this could be. I use it for.

Jeff Jarvis [00:50:28]:
We know you use it.

Leo Laporte [00:50:30]:
Yeah. And I. And I pay it, no, it's been very useful. The thing that concerns somebody has just fed that picture to Grok. And this is the latest version of the picture.

Jeff Jarvis [00:50:42]:
Elon Musk.

Leo Laporte [00:50:44]:
Jarvis. Don't put Elon in a bikini.

Jeff Jarvis [00:50:47]:
Don't put me in one.

Paris Martineau [00:50:49]:
Cold out there.

Jeff Jarvis [00:50:51]:
Elon has a nice decolletage there, don't you think?

Leo Laporte [00:50:54]:
I, I, I think if used judiciously, AI is very helpful. I, I've used it quite a bit. Well, especially if you train it particularly on, you know, good health information. It should be good. Right.

Paris Martineau [00:51:10]:
Five paragraphs down into this announcement is this line Health is designed to support, not replace medical care. It is not intended to diagnose as diagnosis or treatment. I think that's just part of the issue is that a lot of people, anecdotally, when I've heard them talking about CHAT GPT uses for health, they're asking and relying on CHAT GPT to translate their medical records to recommend possible treatment regimes.

Leo Laporte [00:51:39]:
Well, they go even farther because, yeah, they're suggesting, just as our previous sponsor, Monarch Money, does with your financial results, they're suggesting you connect your health data to Chat GPT. So that is always reading your, your records.

Paris Martineau [00:51:54]:
Whether it's basically what the launch of ChatGPT Health is. I kind of read it as it's supposed to be a secure sub window of Chat GPT for all of your health records that you can set specific, I guess, privacy permissions, certain deleting timelines. ChatGPT won't train on that data or OpenAI won't train its models on that data. But I just, I worry that this is going to incentivize a behavior that is already ill advised.

Jeff Jarvis [00:52:26]:
Well, it's also, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's blind men and elephants. I had a family member who had a health issue and I got the full lab results. I put all the lab results in various of these models and other information that was important, like what medication they were on. And I was wrong about the timing of the medication. One of the, one of the medications. And so the, the conclusion that the, that the unit came to was actually right, saying, danger, danger, Will Robinson. This is what if, you know, this is a problem. And then when I went back and I said, oh, actually I was wrong, they're not taking the medication was okay.

Jeff Jarvis [00:53:01]:
Right. The problem was me. In that case, I got the information wrong. But it's too easy to do that.

Leo Laporte [00:53:11]:
Okay, yeah, Leo, you don't have to use it.

Paris Martineau [00:53:14]:
Well, I signed, I'm gonna Say immediately we're saying this, but millions of people already use Chat GBD for this and millions more are going.

Leo Laporte [00:53:23]:
Well, that's right. Yeah, that's right. So this would, if I do think for those people, make it better. He says they say in the, in the announcement, 200 million people are asking, asking health questions of ChatGPT. So it's, it's responding to a demand.

Jeff Jarvis [00:53:39]:
Well, do you remember Samir Aurora has a. As a new company where he got access to. And I don't really understand this well enough and I'm not sure exactly what the brand is. It's a fairly recent announcement. We could have Samaria to talk about it, where he got access that others don't have to a trove of really credible and important health data. And then on that, that basis, what you build with it I think is important. So I'd be, I'd be very interested to know what ChatGPT's sources are because I think that tells you everything.

Leo Laporte [00:54:08]:
Well, it says over two years we've worked with more than 260 physicians practicing in 60 countries and dozens of specialties. This group has now provided feedback on model outputs over 600,000 times across 30. What's the, that's how it works.

Jeff Jarvis [00:54:21]:
The training material.

Leo Laporte [00:54:22]:
That is how it's.

Jeff Jarvis [00:54:23]:
But no, what's how you, what's, what's the original training?

Leo Laporte [00:54:26]:
That's reinforcement learning. That's how you train. In fact, every model you use today is trained by humans with reinforcement learning exactly this way.

Jeff Jarvis [00:54:35]:
But.

Leo Laporte [00:54:36]:
Okay, let me tell you what the training material is. I'm sure it's.

Jeff Jarvis [00:54:42]:
Been all that matters.

Leo Laporte [00:54:43]:
Yeah, I'm sure they're using.

Paris Martineau [00:54:46]:
Yeah, I mean, I think there's just a lot of questions related to this that I, I'm, I was surprised to see this launch because I, I would have assumed that OpenAI as a company would be wary from a legal perspective to be describing its product as offering health and medical advice.

Leo Laporte [00:55:07]:
Right. Yeah, they don't, I don't think they say in this article where they're getting, how they've trained it, whether it's just chatgpt.

Jeff Jarvis [00:55:16]:
Well, well, it's achy. Give me that. Yeah, because if you just use Chat GPT and then we, we reinforcement learning.

Leo Laporte [00:55:25]:
It a little and provide your health information. Right.

Jeff Jarvis [00:55:29]:
But, but the rag I want to see is that it's, it's not built on the, it's like you're using Notebook lm. Right. Notebook LM and RAG will stick only to the data you give. Won't go off and make up stuff out of the whole generation. General use of the entire Internet. Right. And I think that's a critical difference here. And in health stuff, I would want to see it trained only on credible health information and then reinforced by people who matter, rather than using just generic LLM.

Leo Laporte [00:56:01]:
Okay, I'm going to use it. You don't have to. I think that the, the interesting thing is here is this kind of tuning. I mean, we've been talking about this for a long time, tuning it to a specific need and goal with specific information, specific training, and then taking data from your own sources. What are the problems? I don't know. Maybe you guys have better doctors who talk to you. I think I like my doctor, I think I have a good doctor. But I think the state of modern healthcare in the United States is the.

Leo Laporte [00:56:36]:
That as in my case, when he prescribed Ozempic, did he give me any additional information about it? Did he tell me what some of the things I should do, like resistance training? No. It was up to me to go out and get information from a variety of places, including the Internet and books and AI. And I honestly think that some of the material I may have collated from the Internet might not have been that good or from books might not have been that good. In fact, there were number of books I found that were clearly written by AI. So there's a lot of misinformation. If you're not getting. Then this is why I think also AI is being used in therapy in psychotherapeutic ways by people, because we are in a situation, at least in the United States, and maybe not for you guys, but certainly for me, where you don't get that information, you aren't being provided with the kind of information you need. And so there's a need for it.

Jeff Jarvis [00:57:28]:
Yeah, that's a larger societal problem.

Leo Laporte [00:57:30]:
Right, right. I mean, did you go to WebMD when WebMD first emerged and ask it questions?

Paris Martineau [00:57:38]:
Once, many years ago. But then it told me, where do.

Leo Laporte [00:57:41]:
You get health information? From.

Paris Martineau [00:57:45]:
Peer reviewed scientific papers and journals.

Leo Laporte [00:57:48]:
You go out. So you say, okay, I gotta figure out how Tamiflu works. You go out and read scientific papers about Tamiflu.

Jeff Jarvis [00:57:56]:
She would.

Paris Martineau [00:57:57]:
The Wikipedia page. Yeah, yeah, I think I like, I, I often will read scientific journals about stuff like that. But I'm a freak.

Jeff Jarvis [00:58:06]:
Yeah, you are. She's a reporter.

Leo Laporte [00:58:08]:
Yeah. I think it's impractical and I think it's also very risky because there, there's a large volume of material and the amount of time you can spend Going through that material is going to very much limit what you learn. And it may not be the most important thing that you learn. WebMD has come under a lot of criticism. As a matter of fact, it was a site that many people used, but.

Paris Martineau [00:58:33]:
I was going to say it was a site many people used until the long running joke became that you'd go to WebMD for it to tell you that you had cancer no matter what your symptoms were.

Leo Laporte [00:58:41]:
I don't know if that's true, but.

Paris Martineau [00:58:43]:
That was the joke.

Leo Laporte [00:58:44]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [00:58:46]:
Well, this is also where patients like me. That site was really important. It's also learning from other people who are going through experience. You're to going. Going through.

Leo Laporte [00:58:53]:
Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna say you, you do chat GPT the exclusion of anything else you might want to do, including if you want to read scientific papers. Okay.

Jeff Jarvis [00:59:02]:
It depends on the doctors too there. Some of them are. So I. So I had a procedure before our last show.

Leo Laporte [00:59:09]:
Yeah. How'd that go?

Jeff Jarvis [00:59:10]:
It's fine. I was able to sit. It was not a problem.

Leo Laporte [00:59:12]:
Good.

Jeff Jarvis [00:59:13]:
You don't want to know anymore. I don't, but the guy said nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Yeah.

Paris Martineau [00:59:19]:
I mean, did you want him to say anything to you?

Jeff Jarvis [00:59:23]:
Was. Yeah, I want some information about when I could resume certain activities. I'm having cataracts. In a few weeks, you will see me looking like this.

Paris Martineau [00:59:33]:
Oh, we all wear an eye patch.

Jeff Jarvis [00:59:35]:
In solidarity, I think in sympathy. I think you should.

Leo Laporte [00:59:38]:
Although people I know who've had cataract surgery report that their vision improved dramatically and they're very happy. They get it done.

Jeff Jarvis [00:59:44]:
But I went to my optometrist who I like a lot, my. My opinion just to get the blank lens for the first eye. And he said that one woman came in, was really upset because what they do is they put in, you know, new lenses for you. And so that's why I got. I got a correction lens so that I will not have to wear it for distance anymore. But she didn't realize she was an artist. She didn't realize that when you do that, you also can't see close.

Leo Laporte [01:00:07]:
Right.

Jeff Jarvis [01:00:08]:
Right now I can take off my.

Leo Laporte [01:00:09]:
Glasses like you're wearing reading glasses and I can read. Those of us with myopia are very well, are very useful to get put in. You probably see people do this all the time, Paris looking at their phone like this. Especially us old people.

Jeff Jarvis [01:00:23]:
But that you can't do that after the counter.

Leo Laporte [01:00:25]:
Can't do that anymore.

Jeff Jarvis [01:00:26]:
No one told her that she Said it ruined her life.

Leo Laporte [01:00:28]:
Oh, because she's an artist. She wants that detail.

Jeff Jarvis [01:00:31]:
Yeah. And being able to get more information.

Leo Laporte [01:00:33]:
Well, that's the. That. Okay, that's my point is because we get.

Jeff Jarvis [01:00:36]:
I'm agreeing with you. I'm agreeing with you.

Leo Laporte [01:00:38]:
We have such a dysfunctional medical system that if you're really. It's on the patient to get that information now. And as soon as they realize, oh, they can just ask ChatGPT, they're going to even be less.

Jeff Jarvis [01:00:48]:
You know what? It's just like news. It's on you to fact check it, too.

Leo Laporte [01:00:50]:
It's on you. But I have faith in people, maybe more than you do that they can do that. I mean, I think you're worried about the dumb people believing what they get from the AI. I have faith that there are people who are smart enough to figure it out. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [01:01:09]:
I wonder what AI tells you about vaccinations. I wonder what Grok tells you about vaccinations.

Leo Laporte [01:01:15]:
Well, that's why we don't use Grok, isn't it?

Jeff Jarvis [01:01:17]:
Right. But some people do.

Leo Laporte [01:01:20]:
Well, here's the good news. Those people should all move to Florida because Governor DeSantis has now announced that we have to re. Reject AI with every fiber of our being. I don't know how he's going to bring the power of the. Of the Florida.

Jeff Jarvis [01:01:42]:
He's going to unplug all the electricity in the states.

Leo Laporte [01:01:45]:
He is. This is from Politico. He's emerged as a leading AI Skeptic. He wants to spend his last year as Florida governor beating back the advancement of artificial intelligence. He says, let's not try to act like some type of fake videos or fake songs are going to deliver us to some kind of utopia. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [01:02:06]:
Let'S not pretend Florida such a utopia either.

Leo Laporte [01:02:09]:
Did you. Did you. You didn't spend New Year's in Florida. You came home for New Year's?

Paris Martineau [01:02:12]:
Yeah, no, I came home a week in advance.

Leo Laporte [01:02:16]:
Your microphone is doing that thing again, by the way.

Paris Martineau [01:02:18]:
It's doing that thing again?

Leo Laporte [01:02:20]:
Yeah, I. I think it's some hardware gating.

Jeff Jarvis [01:02:25]:
I'm not hearing the thing.

Paris Martineau [01:02:27]:
I'm not.

Leo Laporte [01:02:28]:
Her level was going way down and then way up and then way down.

Jeff Jarvis [01:02:32]:
She just has more emotional modulation than we.

Leo Laporte [01:02:35]:
She modulates more. You have to learn, if you're on the radio, continue to speak loudly.

Paris Martineau [01:02:41]:
Cadence and this volume all the time.

Leo Laporte [01:02:45]:
Yes, if it helps, cup your hand behind your ear.

Paris Martineau [01:02:51]:
I'm getting word from Houston that this is working.

Leo Laporte [01:02:55]:
Now. Desantis is a well educated fellow I think he went to Yale, didn't he?

Jeff Jarvis [01:02:59]:
He.

Leo Laporte [01:02:59]:
He says the idea. I say the idea of this transhumanist strain, that somehow this is going to supplant humans and this other stuff. We have to reject that with every fiber of our being. We as individual human beings are the ones that were endowed by God with certain inalienable rights. I've heard that before. That's what our country was founded upon. They did not endow machines or these computers for this. These computers.

Benito Gonzalez [01:03:33]:
It sounds like he's just scared of AGI. He's scared of super intelligence. Not like Chat.

Paris Martineau [01:03:38]:
He watched Matrix over New Year's, much like I did.

Leo Laporte [01:03:41]:
He has introduced a slate of recommendations for Florida lawmakers, calling on them to require companies to notify consumers when they're interacting with AI. We have that in California already. Prohibit the use of therapy or mental health counseling through AI. Where was it Illinois that did that? And give parents more controls over how their children use the technology. They've done that in New York State. At the same time, DeSantis wants to restrict the growth of data centers that fuel AI efforts by stopping any state subsidies to tech companies and curbing such facilities from drying up local water resources. He's obviously read Karen Howe's book, but the Governor's Bill of Rights. Rights.

Leo Laporte [01:04:19]:
And. But I, My. I felt so bad. Christmas Day, I'm talking to my daughter Abby, and she brought up the water thing. And I said, no, no, it's not true. And I. We got in a fight over it. I feel bad.

Leo Laporte [01:04:35]:
So I'm sorry, Abby, but that's just how that kind of misinformation spreads. People want. I think people want to believe it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:04:43]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [01:04:44]:
I wish I'd known the fact that golf courses, the United States use far more water than data centers. So let's. Let's get rid of.

Paris Martineau [01:04:51]:
Everybody loves golf courses and thinks that they're just a real boon to society with pilebacks.

Leo Laporte [01:04:56]:
And by the way, the golf courses are pouring the water into the ground. The data centers are recycling the water. They're not pouring it into the ground. They're not.

Jeff Jarvis [01:05:03]:
Well, grass is bad.

Leo Laporte [01:05:07]:
She did bring up the fact that Elon Musk's data centers in. Where is it, Carolina? Are using natural gas generators. You said polluting. And I. And I. I quoted our. CJ Trowbridge, our guest of a few weeks ago, and said, that's not an AI problem. That's an Elon Musk problem.

Leo Laporte [01:05:26]:
I didn't win the argument. Let me. So that's interesting. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. You know, this is where though it's interesting, DeSantis is now actually going against the Trump administration which has said no state laws.

Jeff Jarvis [01:05:42]:
Well, he's trying to run for.

Paris Martineau [01:05:43]:
He's got to try and carve out something that separates him.

Leo Laporte [01:05:47]:
Exactly.

Paris Martineau [01:05:48]:
It positions him as a. Another possible stop option, I'd assume.

Leo Laporte [01:05:52]:
Oh, it's a. Oh, it's a political thing.

Jeff Jarvis [01:05:57]:
I'm shocked. There's politics here.

Leo Laporte [01:06:00]:
I am.

Paris Martineau [01:06:00]:
There's politics in my politics.

Leo Laporte [01:06:02]:
When we last left you, the Wayos were stuck in San Francisco because they're.

Paris Martineau [01:06:09]:
Still there to this day.

Jeff Jarvis [01:06:12]:
The problem was the traffic lights being out. It didn't know what to do.

Leo Laporte [01:06:16]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [01:06:16]:
Okay. So it wasn't lost communication with its.

Leo Laporte [01:06:19]:
No, no, no. The communication was still working. It was the traffic lights. Waymo explained that its self driving car technology is already designed to handle dark traffic signals as of now and successfully handled over 7,000 during the power outage treating properly treating those intersections as four way stops. But during the long outage, their cars sometimes experienced a backlog when waiting for confirmation checks, whatever that. Like when we called the home office leading them to freeze in intersections. Well, that seems like a good response. So Waymo said on Tuesday they're implementing fleet wide updates to provide self driving cars specific power outage context.

Leo Laporte [01:07:03]:
See, this is why you do it. You gotta get it out there in the real world, experience these problems so you can fix them and be ready for the next thing. By the way, I just saw a news report in San Francisco. Waymo is offering people on the street $25 to help them close the doors on the Waymos. Because frequently, and I bet you do this Paris, you get out of the car and you leave the door open open.

Paris Martineau [01:07:29]:
Never in my life. My and those way opposite. I get out of the car and I am like, I gotta close this door. And I close it too loud. And then I feel like I'm being a jerk because I've closed the door too loud.

Jeff Jarvis [01:07:41]:
Take that.

Leo Laporte [01:07:42]:
Well, you're doing the right thing. The Waymos as concert currently constructed paid.

Paris Martineau [01:07:46]:
25 to do it. 25 bucks be holding out.

Jeff Jarvis [01:07:49]:
How do they know that you're the.

Paris Martineau [01:07:51]:
One who closed in New York City?

Leo Laporte [01:07:52]:
But they want people who are walking by and see a Wayo that's stranded because they can't drive with the door open. They're just sitting there going, close my door, please somebody. If they. If you see that, if you're in the streets of you see a Waymo with the door open, Just go up, close it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:08:04]:
Well how do you get the 25 bucks?

Leo Laporte [01:08:07]:
I don't know. They didn't. They didn't.

Paris Martineau [01:08:08]:
Well that I think every way Mo should have a little buddy that's injected in the back. That's one of those laundry folding butler robots that if the door is open, it pops out, it waddles over, closes it and then, then deposits 25 bucks to the nearest passerby.

Leo Laporte [01:08:25]:
That's a good idea.

Paris Martineau [01:08:26]:
Pops back in.

Benito Gonzalez [01:08:27]:
Don't those cars already have like electric back? Like the trunk already opens the problem so like paces.

Leo Laporte [01:08:34]:
No, they don't. Now by the way, if you're in Japan you, this is why you're thinking this Bonito. And you close a taxi door, they're going to yell at you because all the taxis in Japan, am I right? Bonito have auto closers.

Benito Gonzalez [01:08:47]:
I'm not sure if it's.

Leo Laporte [01:08:48]:
And you'll break it, but yeah, yeah. Well you'll break the door if you close it. You got to let the door close itself.

Jeff Jarvis [01:08:54]:
It's that.

Leo Laporte [01:08:55]:
Yeah. And the drivers who are all wearing white gloves, I might add. Maybe I just went in some fancy tapsis, I don't know. But they wear white gloves. They're very polite. You can't tip them. And they, I think they have little signs, but they're probably in Japanese. But they say don't close the door but they don't yell.

Jeff Jarvis [01:09:14]:
There's all kinds of rules there. So many rules.

Leo Laporte [01:09:17]:
Let the car closes on door. In this case those eye paces that they used, they never thought of that. They don't have door closers. But, but Waymo says in future they will build cars with door closers. So this is.

Benito Gonzalez [01:09:27]:
Doesn't sound like a big engineering problem, you know it doesn't sound like a big engineering problem.

Leo Laporte [01:09:32]:
Just put a rubber band, a spring on it, something, you know.

Jeff Jarvis [01:09:37]:
So Leo, there are more notetakers for you.

Leo Laporte [01:09:40]:
Well, yeah, I saw the article. The B computer lady is write an article about how at Amazon, oh we're having so much fun now I feel sad. I. I gave my hairdresser my bee. She. She couldn't get it working. In fact a lot of people who with bees. Those little things that I was wearing that recorded everything.

Leo Laporte [01:10:02]:
I once they were purchased by Amazon I gave it up. But a lot of people who have them said how what is. They're still working. Mine stopped working almost immediately. So I don't know. She was never able to get it working with Android. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [01:10:19]:
So Claude has a new wearable.

Leo Laporte [01:10:22]:
Oh, Claude does?

Jeff Jarvis [01:10:23]:
Claude Claude.

Leo Laporte [01:10:25]:
I have applaud.

Jeff Jarvis [01:10:26]:
Yeah, well, it's a new one.

Paris Martineau [01:10:27]:
I would have been excited if it was Claude.

Jeff Jarvis [01:10:29]:
And then there's another one called where is it Here. Memory.

Leo Laporte [01:10:34]:
I learned we had on Twitter on Sunday Joey de Villa, who is an AI developer advocate and from Canada. And he said, no, no, it is pronounced clud. So I'm saying clud from now on. You had Joey back.

Jeff Jarvis [01:10:49]:
That's great.

Leo Laporte [01:10:50]:
Oh, yeah. You know, we had Joey on the show. Of course. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [01:10:53]:
But I was. I was gone that week. I got him on and then I was gone.

Leo Laporte [01:10:55]:
Oh, thank you. Yeah, he's gonna be a regular. He played the accordion for us. He has a new song.

Jeff Jarvis [01:11:00]:
Can I. Oh, do, do.

Leo Laporte [01:11:02]:
Should I play it for you?

Jeff Jarvis [01:11:03]:
He won't take us down, will he?

Leo Laporte [01:11:06]:
Joey better not take us down. Down. He is the. Besides being an AI developer advocate, he's worked with Cory Doctorow. Yeah, he's. He was.

Jeff Jarvis [01:11:16]:
He goes back to the early blogging days.

Leo Laporte [01:11:17]:
He goes back to the early days. It's pretty cool. And he wrote a song which he played on the accordion for us. I'll. I'll just. I think I can play a little bit of. Let me see if I can find this on his website or. No, as YouTube.

Paris Martineau [01:11:35]:
If it's on YouTube, that might be tricky.

Leo Laporte [01:11:36]:
Oh, you know, he took it down.

Benito Gonzalez [01:11:40]:
Maybe Afroman took him down.

Leo Laporte [01:11:43]:
Afroman must have taken him down. Oh, no. I hope we didn't get him in trouble because we played it on our show. Now it's gone. Oh, never mind. I'm sorry, Joey. I'm sorry. So, okay, Plod's got one, but that's really another updated version.

Jeff Jarvis [01:11:59]:
Then there's.

Leo Laporte [01:12:00]:
There's better microphones.

Jeff Jarvis [01:12:01]:
CNET has a story about an old. You're not going to use a note taker, you're just going to use your phone.

Leo Laporte [01:12:07]:
Right? Because it's there. It's got very good microphones on it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:12:11]:
And then there was Another story from ZDNet about the most exciting AI wearable CES might not be smart glasses after all. Memories. AI's wearable pin records for longer and does things.

Paris Martineau [01:12:28]:
Doesn't this look like the thing that got shoved.

Leo Laporte [01:12:34]:
Oh, the humane. Humane pin, yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:12:37]:
Yes. This looks like the thing that got shelved after, like two weeks.

Leo Laporte [01:12:40]:
It does look a lot like the humane pin.

Jeff Jarvis [01:12:42]:
So they're still trying, is my point.

Leo Laporte [01:12:44]:
So what is so. So it's shiny Memories.

Paris Martineau [01:12:48]:
AI is launching Project Lucy at ce.

Leo Laporte [01:12:51]:
Oh, I Love Lucy.

Paris Martineau [01:12:52]:
Builds on the prior Lucy pin, which.

Leo Laporte [01:12:55]:
No one ever heard of.

Paris Martineau [01:12:56]:
Quick processing at its core, it stands.

Leo Laporte [01:12:59]:
For long understanding, contextual intelligence. Lucy.

Jeff Jarvis [01:13:04]:
And SwitchBot has an AI recorder that's a second brain for memory. So my point is there's four of these.

Leo Laporte [01:13:09]:
I'm soured on this. Well, that's where I found out about the B was from last year's ces. Yeah, there were a bunch of them announced at ces. Fieldy has. I think it's Fieldy that is now was got acquired. Right. I mean, that's the thing is a lot of these companies, I think, were just started to get acquired. What happened to this is the Fieldy.

Leo Laporte [01:13:31]:
You wear this thing and I still have this. I think it's pretty cool. I feel like they got.

Jeff Jarvis [01:13:37]:
It looks like it's compressing the person's chest.

Leo Laporte [01:13:41]:
It does, doesn't it?

Jeff Jarvis [01:13:43]:
Jesus. Let him go.

Paris Martineau [01:13:46]:
I believe it's a video pin. So it's always recording video?

Leo Laporte [01:13:50]:
No. Oh, the human. The new one.

Paris Martineau [01:13:52]:
The Lucy.

Leo Laporte [01:13:53]:
Lucy. Oh, that's. People don't like that.

Paris Martineau [01:13:56]:
It says failed AI wearables typically capture data without understanding it. Lucy does a better job of understanding your life the way humans do visually, contextually and continuously with memory. With the 2.0. The company aims to address this issue by converting the continuous video captured by by the PIN into structured on device encoding frames, which can be used to index and reference them in what the blog post refers to as a quote, subsecond, search and recall. Three hours of continuous recording, which isn't that.

Leo Laporte [01:14:32]:
Three hours, that's not much at all.

Paris Martineau [01:14:34]:
109 degree field of view, a privacy switch in the back and a status light.

Leo Laporte [01:14:41]:
Yeah, you know, I'm. I tried all of them and I like the idea, but the result wasn't fantastic. My. You know, my main use of AI right now is just Claude, Claude code, which I. Which I leave running. I leave it running all the time on my laptop and it's fantastic. I just. You can ask it pretty much anything, but mostly I use it to do geeky stuff like configure.

Leo Laporte [01:15:15]:
Like I. Can you make the menu font two points bigger and it goes. Yeah, sure, what else would you like?

Paris Martineau [01:15:20]:
So my menu font on what?

Leo Laporte [01:15:21]:
On my laptop.

Paris Martineau [01:15:23]:
Okay.

Jeff Jarvis [01:15:24]:
Can you just do that?

Leo Laporte [01:15:25]:
Yeah. Oh, my God.

Paris Martineau [01:15:27]:
So wait, but can't you just do that?

Leo Laporte [01:15:31]:
Yeah, I could. You could go into a configuration file and edit it and Actually that's pretty simple and I could probably have done that easily, but Claude will do it for you.

Paris Martineau [01:15:43]:
Sorry, who?

Leo Laporte [01:15:45]:
Claude. Claude. Code. So I got a new laptop, a Lenovo ThinkPad X1. I put Linux on it. I've told this story before. We actually talked about it on the AI User Group on Friday, but I haven't told you guys. And I decided, because I decided I don't want to use the proprietary operating systems.

Leo Laporte [01:16:06]:
Macintosh and Microsoft are very. Both very opinionated about how do you use a computer, right, Just as your phone is, and they're not very flexible. Same thing with your Chromebook. As in terms of, you know. Well, I don't want to. I don't. I want the menu at the bottom or I don't want a menu or whatever. I want.

Leo Laporte [01:16:24]:
I want these apps to launch in when I start up, and I want them to be in different workspaces. All this stuff you don't really get to decide. There are some limited switches you can flip, but for the most part, Microsoft or Apple or Google decide what your experience is. That's the. So I decided I want a laptop where I get to do it however I want. So I got a Lenovo and I put Linux on it. It's beautiful. I love it.

Leo Laporte [01:16:52]:
And I picked a desktop environment that is very different from all of these that I really like. Like, but it takes a lot of fiddling. There are a lot of text files that you have to modify. And I thought, I wonder if Claude could do this. So I. Claude. So Claude could. See, we keep saying Claude, people are going, what the heck is he talking about?

Paris Martineau [01:17:14]:
You have to commit, at least for this one episode.

Leo Laporte [01:17:16]:
Okay, but there's one show.

Jeff Jarvis [01:17:17]:
Bonjour, Claude.

Paris Martineau [01:17:18]:
Claude can do it.

Leo Laporte [01:17:19]:
So lunch, Claude. And I say, hey, Claude, I'm using this Sway desktop environment. What's a good menu bar program? And Claude says, well, I checked and everybody seems to be using waybar. Would you like me to set that up? And I said, okay. And then I said, oh, I would like to know what temperature my CPU is. Claude, can you put that up on the menu bar? Of course. And so basically, bit by bit, over a period of a few days, I completely customize it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:17:52]:
Okay, all right.

Leo Laporte [01:17:52]:
Instead of going. And I could have done it all going out and looking up the documents and doing an editor and all that stuff. I've been doing that now with my Emacs editor, completely with my desktop computer. I said, eclode, I would like to talk to you. Instead of typing, is there a way I can dictate to you? And Claude said, oh, yes, we can install. We can install the Open Whisper and have you just press a button and I will talk to you. Actually, it doesn't talk to me But I. Because it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:18:25]:
Would you talk to it?

Leo Laporte [01:18:26]:
I talked to it. And so. And so I press a button, it goes beep. And I can talk and then press it when I'm done and it sends it off. And it did it all. I could have done that. Absolutely. I could have gone to the various wikis and downloaded, figured it all out, downloaded software.

Leo Laporte [01:18:42]:
But Claude just did it for me.

Jeff Jarvis [01:18:43]:
Me, I got a new use for AI when we were gone.

Leo Laporte [01:18:46]:
One other thing I can say to Claude, hey, I don't like that. Claude, take it back. I take it back and it undoes it. It remembers everything it's done.

Jeff Jarvis [01:18:54]:
Oh, it can undo Claude or just because it knows.

Leo Laporte [01:18:58]:
No, it's because it remembers the conversation. I said, every time you do something for me, put it in Cloud MD. And then I also committed to GitHub. In fact, if you want to see my configuration, it's public on GitHub. I'm Leo Laporte.

Jeff Jarvis [01:19:11]:
I'll be doing that tonight for sure.

Leo Laporte [01:19:12]:
Oh, I guess you will.

Jeff Jarvis [01:19:13]:
Fascinating.

Leo Laporte [01:19:14]:
And so it can, it can download the commits, it can change the commits, it can check. So it. No. Yeah, it can undo anything. So I say, no, I don't like that. Can you do something else? And it just does it. Go ahead. Now.

Leo Laporte [01:19:26]:
How are you using it, Jeffrey?

Jeff Jarvis [01:19:27]:
So I'm not going to tell you the subject because I want to keep this just to me for reasons, but I have a story that I suddenly realized one day that other people have talked about doing a screenplay. And I thought, well, no, I think that I could do that. And I had no idea how to write a treatment. So I wrote up four or five pages and I fed it into NotebookLM and then Gemini and I think ChatGPT and I said, can you make this into a treatment? And it did, and it wasn't very good, but the, the format, I had no idea of, no idea whatsoever. So I, I learned the format and versus going to read somebody's website about how to write a treatment, it used my material. So now I can say, well, that's. I'm going to rewrite this and I'm going to do. I'm sorry, that word.

Jeff Jarvis [01:20:19]:
And so it was really interesting as a different way to learn something because it used material that I knew and cared about. Right.

Paris Martineau [01:20:27]:
That is very interesting.

Jeff Jarvis [01:20:28]:
Yeah. And so it gave me. My agent doesn't know how to deal with this because she deals with like academic books and things. If everybody out there knows a good agent who deals with movie stuff, let me know. Seriously. But it's like a 10 page treatment, Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, you know, and the character arcs and all these things I didn't know.

Leo Laporte [01:20:47]:
And there's a lot of formatting. Right.

Jeff Jarvis [01:20:49]:
Well, it's not a script, so it doesn't have the, you know, act.

Leo Laporte [01:20:51]:
But it would if you said can, by the way. I've been doing that too in my emacs. I'm saying, can you reform that, that for a different. And it does it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:20:58]:
Yeah, it would. But this was amazing. This was. I didn't know there were. There were elements I didn't know I needed. There was a flow I didn't know I needed. Then I also had it, you know, critique it. And there's the problem, there's the sycophancy.

Jeff Jarvis [01:21:09]:
This is really fillable. This is what I wouldn't. You should make this right. No, no, no, no.

Leo Laporte [01:21:14]:
I think also you're getting smart to know what it's good at and not good at.

Benito Gonzalez [01:21:17]:
You're getting. If you're asking for creative advice, you're getting. Getting middle of the road advice, basically. Very middle. You're not getting great advice.

Jeff Jarvis [01:21:24]:
But I learned the format, I learned something new which was really useful.

Leo Laporte [01:21:28]:
But there are some things where you do want kind of middle of the road. Configuring a computer, for instance, is a good example. What is the most popular way to do this? Or what is the one that you see the most of? And so in those cases, mediocrity is exactly what you want. It's not mediocrity, it's average. Is exactly what you want. So. Yeah, but not in creative. I am less interested in, in all of this stuff for creative purposes.

Leo Laporte [01:21:54]:
I know a lot of people are.

Jeff Jarvis [01:21:55]:
But I Scooter X just put in something that may be useful for your. Your job here.

Leo Laporte [01:21:58]:
Leo, I.

Jeff Jarvis [01:22:00]:
Did you see this the Verge story? Meta.

Leo Laporte [01:22:02]:
Yeah. Adding a teleprompter concept.

Jeff Jarvis [01:22:07]:
Teleprompter to your glasses.

Leo Laporte [01:22:10]:
No, I don't. Hello, my name is a Leo Claude Lavar.

Paris Martineau [01:22:19]:
Hello.

Leo Laporte [01:22:20]:
Hello. Okay, that's interesting. A teleprompter.

Jeff Jarvis [01:22:24]:
I see Tony Decouple will be using it on CBS News before, you know.

Paris Martineau [01:22:28]:
Yeah, I love that. The teleprompter display image says speak naturally, stay on script and never lose eye contact. That's the power of the teleprompter. I just imagine someone repeating that to themselves.

Leo Laporte [01:22:40]:
That is so. And by the way, I'm sure they taught you in this, in your media training, the constant eye contact is not a good thing, is it? No, no, it's nobody does that in real life.

Jeff Jarvis [01:22:50]:
Should we all. Hey, hey, Bonito. Let's give you a gift here. We're all going to do constant eye contact.

Paris Martineau [01:22:56]:
Can we all. Let's all look a different direction.

Jeff Jarvis [01:23:01]:
Wonderful.

Benito Gonzalez [01:23:02]:
Thank you.

Leo Laporte [01:23:02]:
Now we just look. I'm sorry. That's a bad word.

Jeff Jarvis [01:23:07]:
That was bad editing.

Leo Laporte [01:23:08]:
That was worse than the other word that you used, Jeff. Sorry.

Jeff Jarvis [01:23:12]:
We're old babies. Things are still in our heads.

Leo Laporte [01:23:14]:
They're still in our heads.

Jeff Jarvis [01:23:16]:
It's bad.

Paris Martineau [01:23:16]:
I disavow them.

Leo Laporte [01:23:18]:
What? What should I have said? Mentally challenged. Is that okay?

Paris Martineau [01:23:21]:
We look dumb.

Leo Laporte [01:23:22]:
Dumb. Dumb is good. Dumb is a good word. And I didn't mean dumb, but I will use D. I, I. I am so close to buying those new Ray Bans. This is not gonna put me over the top.

Paris Martineau [01:23:38]:
What?

Leo Laporte [01:23:39]:
I'm gonna wait. I want to see if I want to see. See. I don't like. It's just a one eye. That's kind of weird.

Paris Martineau [01:23:44]:
Oh, it's just one eye.

Jason Hiner [01:23:46]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:23:46]:
That's like Jeff in a couple weeks.

Jeff Jarvis [01:23:51]:
The one eyed monster.

Leo Laporte [01:23:53]:
Hey, everybody. Yeah, Burke says I always make eye contact and keep it. And Burke, that's why we think you. You're weird.

Jeff Jarvis [01:24:05]:
Mm.

Leo Laporte [01:24:05]:
All right, let's take a little break. We are back. Aren't you glad? Intelligent machines. Should we do Carpathi's year in review? I don't think it's that interesting. Carpathi did tweet an interesting thing. He tweeted a very interesting thing on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. He said he's the guy we mentioned before, the creator of the term Vibe coding. He used to work at Tesla.

Leo Laporte [01:24:27]:
AI. He's an AI guru. And. And I've recommended his videos as a great way to understanding what's going on with AI. If you've got three and a half hours to kill. And he posted on X over the holidays. I'm overwhelmed. I can't keep up.

Leo Laporte [01:24:43]:
It's happening too fast. All of this coding stuff is going too fast for me. Andre, if it's going too fast for you, we're in deep trouble. But we're kind of encouraged. For us, it kind of encouraged me. It's like, yeah, well, I feel that way. I've always felt that way.

Benito Gonzalez [01:25:00]:
Yeah, but is there anybody who feels fully, like, capable and caught up? Right.

Paris Martineau [01:25:05]:
No.

Benito Gonzalez [01:25:05]:
Everybody.

Jeff Jarvis [01:25:05]:
If they do, they have hubris beyond. That's the AGI. They think they're smarter than them.

Leo Laporte [01:25:13]:
It's funny because when I first started doing computer stuff, I felt that way. I felt, this stuff is moving too fast. I'll never be able to keep up. It's overwhelming. And I just said, you know what? I'm gonna. In fact, I even came up with a whole philosophy of a way of thinking about it. Instead of thinking of it as a cup that I'm gonna drink of and try to drink all of it, I'm gonna think of it as a flowing river that I'm gonna dip into. I know I can't capture it all, but I'm gonna dip into it and use it as it flows by and use what I like.

Leo Laporte [01:25:42]:
And I know there'll be stuff that's going by, and that's what the way it is with news now, with information for sure, and certainly with technology. But here's a. When we come back, this was actually an interesting piece from Axios 2025's AI fueled science breakthroughs, things we actually. This is part of my continuing effort to convince you to good PR that AI has some value. Gosh darn it.

Paris Martineau [01:26:11]:
Well, it's behind a paywall, so I'll never know. I won't know what it is. So we come back from the break.

Jeff Jarvis [01:26:17]:
Oh, I think she went through her one free article for a millennium.

Leo Laporte [01:26:20]:
Is Axios behind a paywall now?

Jeff Jarvis [01:26:22]:
Axios, yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:26:24]:
It says I've got to subscribe to Axios AI plus to continue reading.

Leo Laporte [01:26:28]:
Oh, dear.

Jeff Jarvis [01:26:29]:
Oh, that's not good.

Leo Laporte [01:26:30]:
They've changed. They used to be free.

Benito Gonzalez [01:26:33]:
That's not a paywall. You just have to subscribe. It just says to continue reading. For free. You have to subscribe.

Leo Laporte [01:26:37]:
I hate that. Yeah, that's a paywall, if you ask me.

Benito Gonzalez [01:26:40]:
I guess so.

Jeff Jarvis [01:26:41]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:26:42]:
Good data wall.

Leo Laporte [01:26:43]:
It's a something. This episode of Intelligent Machines with Paris Martineau and Jeff Jarvis. Great to have you. Great to see my old friends. Great to see all of you, too. Is brought to you by. Delete Me. Now, this.

Leo Laporte [01:26:55]:
This is something you need. If you've ever wondered how much of your personal data is out there on the Internet for anyone to see, I do not recommend doing the search. But if you look for your name, you will find that. You will find contact info. You may find Social Security numbers. Actually, looked for my Social Security number. Steve Gibson and I did this on Secure now, both of us found our Social Security number. Unbelievable.

Leo Laporte [01:27:21]:
Home address. Even information about your family members. And where is this coming from? Data brokers. Data brokers. And the reason they do it, because they can make a lot of money. They compile information about all of us and sell it online to anyone who comes along. Anyone on the Web can buy all of these private details. It's stunning to know that the United States of America is not illegal to sell somebody's Social Security number.

Leo Laporte [01:27:48]:
How could that not be illegal? It's not. And what can it lead to? Anything. Identity theft, phishing, doxxing, harassment. You can protect your privacy with Delete Me. I am very aware of how little privacy we have. And I mean this is, it's stunning how much personal information is out there and, and the risks are obvious to me. We've even encountered phishing attempts on our company. Encountered them.

Leo Laporte [01:28:19]:
We encounter them every day. That's why I personally recommend and use Delete Me. Maybe it's not going to get rid of all the phishing, but it's definitely going to get that private information out of the Internet, which really makes a difference in protecting you. Delete Me is you don't want the government, marketers, foreign governments, hackers to buy your personal data. That's crazy. Delete Me is a subscription service that removes that personal info from hundreds of data brokers. The number one source of it. These are the ones collecting it and selling it.

Leo Laporte [01:28:52]:
Sign up. Provide Delete Me with just the information you want deleted. It's nice. You have complete control over that. Their experts will take it from there. You'll get regular personalized privacy reports that show you what info they found and where they found it and what they were able to remove. DeleteMe is not just a one time service. This is always working for you.

Leo Laporte [01:29:12]:
Constantly monitoring and removing the personal information you don't want on the Internet. To put it simply, DeleteMe does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal data from data broker websites. Take control of your data. Keep your private life private. Sign up for Delete Me at a special discount for our listeners. 20% off your delete Me plan. Plan. When you go to joindeleteme.com Twitter and use the promo code Twitter checkout.

Leo Laporte [01:29:37]:
The only way to get 20% off is to visit JoinDeleteMe.com TWIT Enter TWIT at checkout again. JoinDeleteMe.com TWIT the offer code is Twit. It really works. We've been using it for a couple of years now. We get those reports. It's mind blowing. And the thing is, these guys, they don't take no for an answer. They'll delete it.

Leo Laporte [01:29:59]:
But then they go, oh, we found some more and they'll start rebuilding your dossier all over again. There's only one way to get rid of it. Join EliteMe.com TWIT and the offer code is twit. I should mention, by the way, and I haven't tried it yet. If you live in California, State of California is about to or is implementing a way for you to delete your information from data brokers, which I think is pretty good. I don't know why we don't have a federal protection here.

Jeff Jarvis [01:30:31]:
Well, that's what the world wants, a federal privacy law. So we have some consistency. Data brokers have been there forever. I mean I, I've talked about this on the show before. I used to scare students by showing them what's in Axiom long before, well, not before the Internet, but you know, many years ago.

Leo Laporte [01:30:47]:
Yeah, they have a list of. Well, this is funny. There's a data broker registry on the state of California, but as of January of 2024 they stopped doing it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:31:05]:
Why?

Leo Laporte [01:31:07]:
See, I think there must be a big lobby somehow of data brokers. So if it's two years out of date, it's worthless because these guys change their names anyway. California does have a tool. We'll see how long it lasts to. It's called drop, delete, request and opt out platform. I haven't tried it yet. It's only available to people in the state of California and it only goes into effect August 1st and then brokers have 90 days. So I don't think it's maybe as effective.

Leo Laporte [01:31:45]:
I think there's a lobby and I think one of the lobbies is not data brokers is law enforce. Other people, like marketers who love it that they can get this information, that they don't want it to be shut down. There's gotta be right. Otherwise it'd be gone. And yes, federal law does allow you to go to data brokers if you can find them and have your data removed. But there's more than 500 of them new ones all the time. So good luck with that. All right, right here I am making the case for AI.

Leo Laporte [01:32:20]:
You can throw tomatoes at me. Paris. It's okay. 2025's AI fueled scientific breakthroughs. Making diagnoses for Alzheimer's. Oh is on the road to becoming faster and cheaper with AI. Researchers at a wide range of universities and healthcare institutions announced findings this year about how AI will help with future therapies. They found for instance, a specific gene that's a cause for Alzheimer.

Leo Laporte [01:32:50]:
Alzheimer's. And they were only able to make that gene because AI helped them visualize the three dimensional structure of the protein. That is one thing AI has been very good at is protein folding. Right. In fact that's Google's alpha gene laundry.

Paris Martineau [01:33:04]:
But it can't fold.

Leo Laporte [01:33:05]:
Can't fold laundry, but it can fold your genes. G E N E S can't fold.

Paris Martineau [01:33:12]:
Your genes genes but it can fold your genes.

Leo Laporte [01:33:16]:
Google released alpha genome which is a model to understand diseases better and lead to drug discovery.

Jeff Jarvis [01:33:24]:
That's gonna be huge.

Leo Laporte [01:33:25]:
Yeah, it will be again. A lot of this is like someday.

Paris Martineau [01:33:29]:
I was about to say I like that. All of the biggest AI things that happen in 2025 for science are things that will happen.

Leo Laporte [01:33:38]:
They're gonna happen.

Jeff Jarvis [01:33:40]:
Humanoid robots, discovery of the electron to radio.

Leo Laporte [01:33:45]:
It takes a while. Takes a while.

Jeff Jarvis [01:33:47]:
A while.

Leo Laporte [01:33:49]:
Yeah. I'm surprised they put human robots in there. They say one day they will clean homes.

Paris Martineau [01:33:55]:
Not today.

Leo Laporte [01:33:56]:
Not today. Weather forecasting is better. If at Google released a weather forecasting model that can generate forecasts eight times faster than before. That's something AI is very good at. How about this? A machine learning framework helped a team analyze scientific literature more than 1 million rock samples to narrow down viable alternatives for cement cost and emission efficient cement.

Jeff Jarvis [01:34:23]:
MIT's because it's a terrible polluter.

Leo Laporte [01:34:25]:
It is a polluter. That's right. We mentioned AlphaFold which is doing 3D protein folding. That started five years ago. Six Nobel prizes for Google 3 awarded just in the last two years around that. You know this isn't as satisfying an article in defending.

Jeff Jarvis [01:34:47]:
No, it's Axios.

Leo Laporte [01:34:49]:
I was really excited. Never mind.

Jeff Jarvis [01:34:51]:
Forget I brought up water.

Paris Martineau [01:34:53]:
Someday all the at and ts hit you square on.

Jeff Jarvis [01:34:58]:
Oh I think we gotta have just these projects.

Benito Gonzalez [01:35:01]:
Just get all the money that OpenAI gets. We'd be better off, you know.

Jeff Jarvis [01:35:06]:
Amen.

Leo Laporte [01:35:07]:
Yes, I agree. I agree. But that's not how it works in this.

Benito Gonzalez [01:35:11]:
And that's the problem though. It's never really been about AI. It's been about the people who make the AI.

Leo Laporte [01:35:15]:
Right.

Paris Martineau [01:35:16]:
It's been about resource allocation.

Jeff Jarvis [01:35:18]:
But somebody in the chat. Your opportunity now is to make a game of hit Leo with the tomato and Leo dodges the to me here.

Leo Laporte [01:35:26]:
I'll give you the sound.

Paris Martineau [01:35:34]:
We're doing free foley work out here guys. You gotta put in.

Leo Laporte [01:35:37]:
You got the sounds now make the game.

Paris Martineau [01:35:38]:
Clud code on this cloud could do.

Benito Gonzalez [01:35:41]:
It can probably be vibe coded before the end of the show. Right.

Leo Laporte [01:35:45]:
I. I know it could get on it guys.

Paris Martineau [01:35:49]:
I've accidentally cannibal my picks the week bring this up so it could be my pick.

Leo Laporte [01:35:53]:
Oh, she needs a new pick. So write the code.

Jeff Jarvis [01:35:57]:
What was where did Flappy Jeff come from? Why did we do Flappy?

Paris Martineau [01:36:00]:
I can't even remember.

Benito Gonzalez [01:36:01]:
It was a vibe coding exercise.

Paris Martineau [01:36:02]:
The only thing I've ever vibe coated. And it was. I. I think I typed two sentences into chat GPT while on the air. And we.

Leo Laporte [01:36:12]:
Oh, I gotta go. The ice cream truck.

Paris Martineau [01:36:14]:
Somebody made a better version.

Leo Laporte [01:36:15]:
Can you hear the ice cream truck driving by? No, it's driving by.

Paris Martineau [01:36:19]:
You still not have walls.

Leo Laporte [01:36:21]:
We live on a dead end and there's an ice cream truck and it's the middle of winter and it's freezing cold and there's an ice cream truck.

Paris Martineau [01:36:28]:
You should go support a local business, Leo.

Jeff Jarvis [01:36:31]:
We'll keep talking for you next if.

Paris Martineau [01:36:32]:
He wants to come on the show.

Leo Laporte [01:36:36]:
What was that really good one that they discontinued? It was an ice cream creepy Powerpuff.

Paris Martineau [01:36:41]:
Girl ones that get melted and they look really haunted. Something.

Benito Gonzalez [01:36:43]:
You're the one with the gumballs for ice.

Paris Martineau [01:36:46]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [01:36:47]:
Ooh. Aunt Pruitt in our. In our discord says it's never too cold for ice cream. Bless your heart.

Paris Martineau [01:36:58]:
Rule of life Ice cream place near me is now open year round and I'm like, bold choice. Yeah. I don't.

Leo Laporte [01:37:03]:
Wow. Yeah, it's. It's so cold. I don't know if I really want ice cream.

Jeff Jarvis [01:37:07]:
By the way, since you're. I love watching Ant on his shoots, getting his makeup and.

Paris Martineau [01:37:15]:
And Anthony, actor extraordinaire.

Leo Laporte [01:37:18]:
He is. He's getting a lot of work.

Jeff Jarvis [01:37:19]:
He is as well. He's a handsome devil.

Leo Laporte [01:37:22]:
Yeah. Where do you find that? Is that on his Instagram?

Jeff Jarvis [01:37:25]:
That is. I think you're LinkedIn, right, Ant?

Paris Martineau [01:37:27]:
LinkedIn. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [01:37:29]:
Nice.

Jeff Jarvis [01:37:30]:
Yeah. Because it's to get. Get to get jobs.

Leo Laporte [01:37:32]:
And you'll see some of the headshots on Instagram.

Paris Martineau [01:37:35]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of good stuff.

Jeff Jarvis [01:37:39]:
Need a model on set. I'm 6 foot 2 tall, 225 pounds, 36, 32 trousers, extra large shirt, bearded or clean shaven. Your choice. Comfortable and easy to work with on set, which we know and we can attest to.

Leo Laporte [01:37:52]:
I love that if you watch the audition videos where the guys will say, I will shave for the job or I won't shave. Shave. Some of them say, not gonna shave.

Benito Gonzalez [01:38:05]:
So he can also take the photos.

Leo Laporte [01:38:09]:
Posing them.

Jeff Jarvis [01:38:10]:
He did. He did find it. He did photos where they made him look young and then they made him look old.

Leo Laporte [01:38:15]:
Nice.

Jeff Jarvis [01:38:16]:
I love Ant and it's the greatest.

Leo Laporte [01:38:18]:
Ant. P r u I t t.com hire ant. A Google engineer says Claude code, which is interesting.

Jeff Jarvis [01:38:30]:
Leo Google engineer said what?

Paris Martineau [01:38:34]:
They said what?

Leo Laporte [01:38:36]:
Claude code. A Google engineer Claude code built in one hour. What her team spent a year on. What's funny is Anthropic left Google because they didn't like how Google was doing. AI and their competitors.

Jeff Jarvis [01:38:53]:
Anthropic left OpenAI, not Google.

Leo Laporte [01:38:55]:
Oh, I'm sorry. OpenAI, that's right. But they are still competitors. Google principal engineer Janna Dogan reports that Anthropic's cloud code generated a distributed agent orchestration system in one hour. A problem Google had been working on since last year. I mean 2024. Well, the result isn't perfect, okay. Dogen says it's comparable to what Google built previously, which also wasn't perfect.

Leo Laporte [01:39:19]:
Highlighting the rapid advancement AI assisted coding capabilities, Claude code creator Boris Charny suggests enabling the tool to self check its work. A feedback loop that can double or triple the output quality. I have noticed as I use Claude Claude that it's an interactive process. You don't. I think the whole idea of a one shot process is misleading. Yeah, sometimes they can one shot stuff, but really it's. You should do it in more little planning chunks, a little bit at a time, back and forth, back and forth, checking it. I've been very impressed with what you can do to cut through the noise.

Leo Laporte [01:39:59]:
Dogan clarifies Google has built several versions of the system over the past year. 2025. There are trade offs and there has been a clear winner when prompted with the best ideas. Ah, this is how they did it. When prompted using the code base of the best ideas that survived, coding agents can generate a decent toy version in about an hour. What I built this weekend, she says, isn't production grade. It's a toy version. But a use starting point.

Leo Laporte [01:40:25]:
I think that's a fair description.

Jeff Jarvis [01:40:27]:
So I've asked this question before, but I'll come back to it. When we had Mike Masnick on about how he did his vibe coding. I think what blocks people, frankly like me is I'm not used to putting things on servers and running them.

Leo Laporte [01:40:40]:
Well, you don't have to do that. I haven't put any of the stuff that I do on a server. It's all local.

Jeff Jarvis [01:40:46]:
It's local to what though?

Leo Laporte [01:40:48]:
To my computer. Oh, okay.

Jeff Jarvis [01:40:51]:
So how do you get through a run version of what you've had?

Leo Laporte [01:40:55]:
You can run it locally. Make you run it locally. Because he wants a server version. So Claude is running in the cloud. Yes, Claude's cloud. Cloud or cloud in the cloud.

Paris Martineau [01:41:08]:
Claude code in the cloud.

Leo Laporte [01:41:11]:
But what you do is you go into your project directory and if you've started a new. If you're starting a new. Probably it's hard if you're not a coder.

Jeff Jarvis [01:41:18]:
That's what I'm saying.

Leo Laporte [01:41:19]:
You're just learning Python and you go into your directory where that code is going to be and you, you open claude and. And you say slash init. It reads all your code, reads your project. Then you say, here's what I'm thinking, let's plan a project. You can do it all verbally.

Jeff Jarvis [01:41:34]:
So. But here's what I'm saying, Leo. I think there's a huge consumer demand that will come up when somebody comes up with the really easy way to say, say tell Claude what the program you want to do and then it just runs and it does what I wanted to do. I want you to.

Leo Laporte [01:41:50]:
That's what you do. I can do that right now.

Paris Martineau [01:41:52]:
That's how I do what type coding is.

Leo Laporte [01:41:54]:
Yes, but, but it doesn't have to be on a server. That's just.

Jeff Jarvis [01:41:57]:
Never mind that. I'm still saying people aren't going to do in nits. They're not going to do that kind of stuff.

Leo Laporte [01:42:01]:
Well, you don't have to. You can hear. Watch. Let's do it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:42:04]:
All right. That's what I'm trying to get to, is to get to the really easy consumer level of this.

Leo Laporte [01:42:09]:
Yeah, you can do that.

Benito Gonzalez [01:42:11]:
The problem with that, Jeff, is that, like, you need to be a good producer. You need to know exactly what you want. And most people don't know exactly what they want. You know, that's, that's the problem most people have, is they don't really know what they want.

Leo Laporte [01:42:23]:
What are we gonna make? I forgot. Oh, tomato game.

Jeff Jarvis [01:42:26]:
Yeah. Oh, good. Okay.

Paris Martineau [01:42:27]:
Game where we're throwing tomatoes at you.

Leo Laporte [01:42:29]:
Okay, now I'm gonna do Claude. Claude. Hello, Claude. Dr. Mi.

Jason Hiner [01:42:36]:
Claude.

Leo Laporte [01:42:37]:
What language? We're going to do this in Python.

Jeff Jarvis [01:42:38]:
Right, See, right there, you've lost the two words.

Leo Laporte [01:42:42]:
No, no.

Paris Martineau [01:42:43]:
Do you trust the language?

Leo Laporte [01:42:44]:
No, I don't have to do any Python.

Paris Martineau [01:42:45]:
And it's user, Leo. Tomato.

Leo Laporte [01:42:48]:
It's like, yes, it is Tomato.

Paris Martineau [01:42:51]:
That's where we are in clud. I want to create a game.

Leo Laporte [01:43:00]:
I don't have the dictation on this computer, so I can't dictate it. I have to type it. I should have put that on this computer. Computer would have been much more useful.

Paris Martineau [01:43:06]:
That would have been good.

Leo Laporte [01:43:07]:
I'm ready. I'm happy to help you create a game in Python. What kind of game do you have in mind? I want to do a GUI game. GUI game?

Paris Martineau [01:43:15]:
Is that a type of game or you referring to.

Leo Laporte [01:43:18]:
It's a graphic user interface.

Paris Martineau [01:43:19]:
Okay. I was like, are you referring to what?

Leo Laporte [01:43:22]:
G O O E Y G U I with flying tomatoes. And. And I want to aim the tomatoes and score points when it hits a picture of me. I'm not. See, this is something completely. You could totally do, Jeff.

Jeff Jarvis [01:43:49]:
Right now. I'm okay, now. Once it makes it.

Leo Laporte [01:43:52]:
It stays this way. It stays this way. Well, I mean, I'm not gonna. We don't probably so.

Jeff Jarvis [01:43:57]:
That's my point.

Leo Laporte [01:43:57]:
Dinner. It's almost dinner.

Jeff Jarvis [01:43:59]:
I want to share this. This. I want to share this with you.

Leo Laporte [01:44:01]:
Yeah, you'll get a game. You could package it up. You could say, package that up so I can send it in an email.

Paris Martineau [01:44:07]:
Okay, how do I gooey game through Gmail?

Jeff Jarvis [01:44:10]:
How do I make it on the web? How do I put it on the web so people.

Leo Laporte [01:44:12]:
You can say, okay, well, that's a little more complicated.

Jeff Jarvis [01:44:15]:
That's what I'm trying to say. I think there's a host.

Leo Laporte [01:44:18]:
Any web game you have to have.

Jeff Jarvis [01:44:22]:
That's what I was trying to say. The server. Yes.

Leo Laporte [01:44:24]:
But then you just made it a web game.

Paris Martineau [01:44:26]:
Put this on the web.

Leo Laporte [01:44:27]:
Yeah, you could you simply say, say, okay, I need a web server. Can you set me up a web server? And I'll say, okay, where do you want to go? Where do you want to host it? And you say, I don't know, what do you recommend? And it's going to say Hetzner. Okay, can you get me an account at Hetzner? Yeah. Now you're gonna have to. At some point you do have to intervene because it doesn't have your money, it doesn't have your passwords, things like that. So you might. It might walk through.

Jeff Jarvis [01:44:51]:
All I'm trying to say is I think that there is a big business opportunity. Opportunity to say whatever program you want, you tell clud. And then the next thing you know, it's available to you. And you didn't have to know any of this stuff.

Leo Laporte [01:45:04]:
Well, that's what I'm doing. So it's a great idea. A tomato throwing game. Sounds fun. Before I start building it, I have a few questions about the game mechanics. How should the player aim and shoot the tomatoes? Do you want a keyboard arrows or you want to click to shoot? Do you want drag and release slingshots?

Jeff Jarvis [01:45:21]:
What's best?

Leo Laporte [01:45:22]:
Well, actually I want Paris to decide. Drag and release slingshot. Right. That's how you would like it.

Paris Martineau [01:45:29]:
Yeah, that's what we want it.

Leo Laporte [01:45:31]:
Okay. Should your picture the target move around or stay in one place? I think definitely it should move.

Jeff Jarvis [01:45:37]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [01:45:38]:
Do you have a picture ready to use as a target?

Jeff Jarvis [01:45:41]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:45:42]:
Don't you. You have a photo of yourself?

Leo Laporte [01:45:44]:
Yeah. Okay. Submit answers. Okay, so now it's reticulated. Claude. Claude is funny. It has a lot of different verbs it uses for as. It's working.

Leo Laporte [01:45:56]:
Reticulating. Perfect. A slingshot style tomato game with a moving target. That'll be fun. Let me build this for you. It is. Now writing the game.

Jason Hiner [01:46:07]:
I. I love all this.

Paris Martineau [01:46:08]:
Give it. You didn't give it the photo.

Leo Laporte [01:46:10]:
Well, it's gonna ask at some point. Prompts you. It doesn't. So it's going to say. Okay, I need that photo. Now let me get a photo from Discord.

Paris Martineau [01:46:21]:
Pretty fly for us. This guy has come up with a really good game box image for this game.

Leo Laporte [01:46:28]:
We may get ahead of ourselves a little bit. Let's see. Copy image. Okay, now I've got that image. It's still thinking because this is complicated. It's writing a whole game in Python right now.

Paris Martineau [01:46:42]:
Now this is beautiful.

Leo Laporte [01:46:45]:
Cool. Oh, wait a minute.

Paris Martineau [01:46:47]:
Great use of everything.

Leo Laporte [01:46:47]:
Now here's the. By the way, here's the code. You want to see it, Jeff?

Jeff Jarvis [01:46:50]:
Sure.

Leo Laporte [01:46:50]:
Because do you know any Python?

Jeff Jarvis [01:46:52]:
No, I don't know.

Leo Laporte [01:46:53]:
Do you care? No, no. Look it. Here's all the code I like where.

Paris Martineau [01:46:56]:
It says import math.

Leo Laporte [01:46:58]:
Yeah, import math.

Jeff Jarvis [01:46:59]:
Good.

Leo Laporte [01:47:00]:
If I could do that. My brain, man, if I could do that.

Paris Martineau [01:47:03]:
That was me at 10am on Monday when I had the flu and was trying to. To do basic.

Leo Laporte [01:47:09]:
You would have loved this.

Paris Martineau [01:47:10]:
I would have loved to have imported min.

Leo Laporte [01:47:12]:
Yeah, I mean, I think this is really cool. Now this isn't the only way you could do this. Google's got, of course, their new. What is it called? Antipodes. I can't remember what it's called. Anti Gravity. There's. Okay.

Leo Laporte [01:47:29]:
Codex will do this for chat GPT. Okay. The tomato reset automatically after each shot. Dot first install Pygame. Run the game and then you have to give it the path to your picture file. Okay, good. So it's done. Should we.

Leo Laporte [01:47:46]:
Should we play the game?

Paris Martineau [01:47:47]:
Play. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [01:47:48]:
All right, let's see how you can.

Jeff Jarvis [01:47:51]:
You can get Paris to play.

Leo Laporte [01:47:52]:
Oh, I don't have pip. Let me see. Do I have uv? No.

Paris Martineau [01:47:59]:
I wish I knew what any of these words meant. But I really enjoy also that I don't.

Leo Laporte [01:48:03]:
Pip is a python of Pip. Cheerio like, pip, pip, cheerio. So I have to install Python. I thought I would have had it on here, but watch, though. This all happens very fast. Okay, but as long as you can. Oh, I have Python. Okay.

Jeff Jarvis [01:48:18]:
I would think.

Leo Laporte [01:48:19]:
Oh, it's probably not in the past. Ah, it's Pip three. Okay. That's why.

Paris Martineau [01:48:25]:
Pip, pip. And then the third needs to be a Cheerio. Obviously.

Leo Laporte [01:48:30]:
Wait a minute.

Paris Martineau [01:48:30]:
Three pips? That would be crazy.

Leo Laporte [01:48:35]:
Now I have to read some instructions.

Jeff Jarvis [01:48:38]:
Oh, that's the part we hate.

Leo Laporte [01:48:39]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:48:40]:
Come back here. She keeps rubbing up against my legs and then running away when I try to hold her up to the camera. She's being shy.

Jeff Jarvis [01:48:47]:
Come here, Giz. We haven't seen you for three weeks. Giz.

Leo Laporte [01:48:52]:
Come here.

Jason Hiner [01:48:55]:
Got her there.

Jeff Jarvis [01:48:57]:
She's not gonna spin around.

Paris Martineau [01:48:59]:
You're not gonna do it. You're so strong, Gizmo. I'm really trying to get her to.

Jeff Jarvis [01:49:07]:
Face the candy cutie.

Leo Laporte [01:49:12]:
This cat interlude provided for you by. This is too complicated. I have to install some Python stuff, but I will finish this after the show, and by next week, we'll have Leo Laporte Tomato blast the.

Paris Martineau [01:49:28]:
Hey, listen, we've still technically got a chance that Darren OKE is making this exact same game.

Leo Laporte [01:49:33]:
It'll probably be better, but there is a game and it's ready to go. I just. I don't have the programming.

Paris Martineau [01:49:39]:
Schrodinger's game may or may not exist.

Jeff Jarvis [01:49:41]:
Let me ask the question this way. You've made the game. How does Paris play it?

Leo Laporte [01:49:47]:
I would have to send it to her. Or I could take a baggie, put it on a floppy disk. Put the floppy disk in the baggie with some immigraphed instructions, seal the baggie, put it in envelope, mail it to her, and she could do it that way.

Jeff Jarvis [01:50:00]:
If you wanted her to play with right now, I would just.

Leo Laporte [01:50:04]:
I would email it to her. It's a file.

Jeff Jarvis [01:50:06]:
It's a file. She had to have installed Python.

Leo Laporte [01:50:09]:
No. Once I get this all set up, she won't have to install Python. Python. All right.

Paris Martineau [01:50:14]:
Fascinating. I hope that we all get an.

Leo Laporte [01:50:17]:
Email with this game before this night is out. You will have. I will write it better. I won't do it in Python. I'll write it better.

Paris Martineau [01:50:25]:
I was going to say, if we're. If we're requesting features, I think the tomatoes should explode when it hits the image view, but that might well, see.

Leo Laporte [01:50:32]:
So that's what happens. So I could play the game now, and then I could go back to Claude and say, you know, I would like the tomatoes to come splat much more aggressively on Leo's face. It's pretty impressive. It really is. And the thing is, this is a more elaborate kind of thing than I do. Mostly little bits and pieces at a time, like, well, please install a way for me to transcribe stuff.

Paris Martineau [01:51:00]:
Or does Claude know what a tomato looks like? Does it have image generation capabilities?

Leo Laporte [01:51:07]:
That's interesting. Yes. You could use an MCP server to connect Claude to. Well, you could actually connect it to Nano Banana and say, but so I wonder.

Paris Martineau [01:51:17]:
You are throwing.

Leo Laporte [01:51:19]:
I don't know where it got the tomato. That's a good question.

Paris Martineau [01:51:21]:
I don't know if it is a tomato.

Jeff Jarvis [01:51:26]:
Would it know enough to ask and say, I don't know what a tomato is. You have to tell me.

Leo Laporte [01:51:29]:
It knows what a tomato is.

Paris Martineau [01:51:30]:
It knows what a tomato is. But whether it cannot. I don't know whether it can generate a tomato.

Leo Laporte [01:51:36]:
Well, that's a good question. I should look and see if it might be a computer graphics tomato. That'd be interesting.

Paris Martineau [01:51:41]:
That would be pretty fun.

Leo Laporte [01:51:42]:
It would have a reference. It can go and say, okay, tomato don't know what a tomato is. Let's see what a tomato is. Get a reference file and says, oh, that's what it looks like. And say, well, then I put dots here like this. I mean, it can do all of that. Yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:51:54]:
I'm just imagining an ASCII art tomato being thrown at you.

Leo Laporte [01:51:58]:
It's pretty uncanny what it can do. And I encourage people to try it. I really do. All right, I think.

Jeff Jarvis [01:52:09]:
I think we've got a debate whether Satya Nutella is right or wrong.

Leo Laporte [01:52:14]:
What does Satya say?

Jeff Jarvis [01:52:15]:
Line 130.

Leo Laporte [01:52:17]:
All right, let's go to line 130 right now. Oh, Satya says, stop calling it AI slop.

Jeff Jarvis [01:52:23]:
Right.

Leo Laporte [01:52:24]:
What does he say?

Jeff Jarvis [01:52:25]:
Rebranded it.

Leo Laporte [01:52:26]:
We need to get beyond the arguments of slop versus sophistication, you know, a lot.

Jeff Jarvis [01:52:34]:
Because. Because that's not like a high culture and low culture thing.

Leo Laporte [01:52:37]:
Yeah, it's. There is a slop. No one would deny that.

Jeff Jarvis [01:52:41]:
In fact, the more we. I think it's the opposite. The more we define it and have norms against it, the higher the quality will be because people will be motivated at some point not to do it anymore.

Leo Laporte [01:52:51]:
More because I think we need to. I think we need a new model of what AI is. It's not. We stop. Stop anthropomorphizing it, but also stop expecting of it superhuman capabilities. It is a tool. It's like a computer can Compute. A computer can generate garbage and can generate great stuff.

Leo Laporte [01:53:11]:
When we first got laser printers and fonts, people made documents that. Page layouts that looked horrible because they looked like ransom notes because they wanted to play with all the fonts. Is that slop? Yes. But does it mean that the computer, the laser writer and page definition, you.

Paris Martineau [01:53:31]:
You're conflating slop with thing that looks bad.

Leo Laporte [01:53:35]:
Oh, you say if a human does it, it ain't slop.

Paris Martineau [01:53:37]:
Correct. It's just bad. Slop specifically refers to it being machine generated, so.

Leo Laporte [01:53:51]:
Well, then I agree with Satya. I think that that is just because a machine generates slop.

Jeff Jarvis [01:53:56]:
I would agree with that. No, it's not. Yeah.

Benito Gonzalez [01:53:58]:
No, no, no. That's a Venn diagram.

Jeff Jarvis [01:53:59]:
No, no, no, no.

Paris Martineau [01:54:00]:
It's a specific. It's a subset of machine generation. There's a subset of AI generated images, text, that is slop because it is bad or nonsensical in a way that is inherently slop.

Benito Gonzalez [01:54:15]:
Like, not all the word slop can also refer all AI stuff is slop, but all slop is made by AI.

Paris Martineau [01:54:22]:
Correct.

Leo Laporte [01:54:23]:
Unless you're feeding it to pigs, which is where the word came from in the first place.

Paris Martineau [01:54:29]:
Yes, Grandpa.

Benito Gonzalez [01:54:33]:
I mean.

Leo Laporte [01:54:34]:
I mean, that's what slop was originally. It was the food scraps that were slopped together and fed to pigs. Right. So that's what I think of when I think of slop. It's. It's a pejorative. It's like this thing is.

Paris Martineau [01:54:45]:
It is a pejorative. That's correct. But it is, as Benito said, it's kind of a rectangle square situation.

Leo Laporte [01:54:54]:
So from the conversation, we're talking about AI all wrong. So this is Pablo Sanguinetti, who's a professor of AI in Italy.

Jeff Jarvis [01:55:06]:
He has a book that is in Italian called Techno Humanism, A Narrative and Aesthetic Design for Artificial Intelligence. So he argues toward the end that we should not. We should avoid using AI as the subject of a sentence. As an AI does this. Or AI.

Leo Laporte [01:55:22]:
That's good.

Jeff Jarvis [01:55:23]:
I like it when it is being used as a tool and thus not anthropomorphizing. Playing with the term AI also helps us see how much much words can change our perception of technology. Try replacing it in a sentence with, for example, complex task processing. Hard to say one of the least ambitious but most accurate names considered during early days. So rename it and rebrand it.

Leo Laporte [01:55:46]:
Or expert Systems. That's what AI's work originally.

Jeff Jarvis [01:55:50]:
So I mentioned when we were trying to find some. I'm really glad we got who we got for the show today, but one of the people I mentioned is the guy named Thomas Hague, who's a historian of technology. He wrote a book on the history of computers, and he's writing one now on the history of AI as a brand. I think.

Leo Laporte [01:56:05]:
I think, yeah, it's more of a brand, isn't it? That's a better way to think of it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:56:09]:
And interestingly, he argues that he was interviewed on another podcast. I listened to that. With all of the pushback on AI right now, we might see these companies start to rebrand it themselves that they'll use other phrases for because they want to stay away from AI because you have people like Desantis who are saying all the AI is evil.

Leo Laporte [01:56:28]:
Right. So here's a picture of me before. It's JRPG style, and here's a picture of me after.

Paris Martineau [01:56:37]:
This would be your icon in the corner of the screen.

Leo Laporte [01:56:41]:
Thank you.

Jeff Jarvis [01:56:41]:
I like that the microphone got slopped, so to speak.

Leo Laporte [01:56:44]:
Everything got slapped.

Jeff Jarvis [01:56:45]:
Yeah, that's good. Who did the that, Anthony? Very good.

Leo Laporte [01:56:49]:
Probably Nano Banana. And yeah, I think the prompt probably did say. What did you say? Paris?

Paris Martineau [01:56:53]:
I think it seems JRPG style.

Benito Gonzalez [01:56:56]:
Yeah, 16 bit.

Leo Laporte [01:56:58]:
Yeah, it's like super ness. Yeah. One of those old RPG games. Yeah.

Paris Martineau [01:57:06]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [01:57:07]:
Very nice. I like it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:57:09]:
Unleashing creativity from our.

Leo Laporte [01:57:11]:
I think our tomato game is going to end up being pretty good. Good. I do think we have to recontextualize AI because I do think because we ascribe so much to it, it's disappointing to people when it doesn't do the things that they are ascribing to it.

Jeff Jarvis [01:57:26]:
Well, this is the whole AGI thing. There was a fascinating debate between Yann Lecun and Devis Hassabis while we were gone and you guys on tour.

Leo Laporte [01:57:39]:
Didn't they just. Didn't they debate before?

Jeff Jarvis [01:57:41]:
No, that was. I went to an event where was somebody else from DeepMind.

Jason Hiner [01:57:43]:
Oh, okay.

Leo Laporte [01:57:43]:
Okay.

Jeff Jarvis [01:57:44]:
Debated with Yan. So Demis is. Jan was saying it's not AGI. It's not general intelligence. There is no such thing. Anyway, we're good at. We as humans are good at some things, bad at other things. We're spiky.

Jeff Jarvis [01:57:55]:
So will AI be. And I think he's right. But Dennis is. No. Is still chasing the AGI brass ring. No, no, no. We will have a general statement. We'll have a general machine.

Jeff Jarvis [01:58:08]:
And so that's what DeepMind and OpenAI and anthropology anthropic are still going after. And that's why I'm On Team Team LeCun. Because Jan is saying, no, we're going to have a whole bunch of specialized AIs that are going to do some stuff really, really well, far better than we do. We already have some protein folding, but the goal isn't to think that we're, it's to replicate us. And I think this, this idea of replication has caused the industry huge problems because that's what's freaking people out.

Paris Martineau [01:58:38]:
Yeah, I think a lot of, I mean, it's one of the many issues that the industry is having right now is just that the promises that were initially made about what these products can and will imminently be able to do is just one not realistic. But two is perhaps like not as interesting as what they're currently doing or have the capacitor to.

Jeff Jarvis [01:59:04]:
Well, I think that's what we heard from Jason at the beginning of the show is, you know, I didn't see anything I want to buy. I don't see anything that my friends would use. It's still amazing. It's still doing great things, but it's being presented as if it's a consumer cure all. And that's the wrong way to brand it.

Leo Laporte [01:59:22]:
Lisa was asking me and I actually don't know what the answer to this is. She says, I want to take a course about AI. And I.1 of my thoughts was anything that is a, by now a course is going to be outdated. Right. That, that you couldn't go to your local community college and take a course on AI that would be in any way timely.

Jeff Jarvis [01:59:47]:
Well, I have the answer for her on line 156. Funny she should ask.

Leo Laporte [01:59:51]:
Is it this, the Stanford lectures? Yeah. So I was thinking maybe sending this to her. She wants to go to an actual class. But These are Stanford's AI courses from online. Stanford edu. They posted on, on YouTube.

Jeff Jarvis [02:00:05]:
The great thing is it's taught by twins.

Leo Laporte [02:00:08]:
Oh, that's confusing. Did you, have you watched this? No, no, because I just, I didn't lecture one Transformers. Is the whole course on here or just.

Jeff Jarvis [02:00:16]:
Yes, it is the whole course. This is just, I couldn't, I couldn't find the page for it, so I just put up number one.

Leo Laporte [02:00:21]:
They probably have a, a playlist somewhere. Yeah, I've been, you know, it's fun. I, I, you can get a college education on YouTube easily. I, I do a lot of MIT's open courseware stuff.

Jeff Jarvis [02:00:36]:
Oh, wait a second. Yeah, you should play it for just a minute because he has.

Benito Gonzalez [02:00:38]:
Could I put that on my resume? Leo took a MIT Course.

Leo Laporte [02:00:43]:
That'S. Yeah. You don't have a degree.

Jason Hiner [02:00:45]:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to CME20.

Paris Martineau [02:00:48]:
I just need to see him say CL.

Leo Laporte [02:00:50]:
I bet he uses cloud. So.

Jason Hiner [02:00:53]:
My name is Afshin. I will be teaching this class with Sherving, who's in the back, and.

Leo Laporte [02:01:00]:
And Shirving is his twin.

Benito Gonzalez [02:01:01]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [02:01:01]:
If you look them up, they're twins. I think I even put a picture of them up. I don't think. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:01:05]:
I would love it if they. Why aren't they both down there?

Jeff Jarvis [02:01:07]:
I know.

Paris Martineau [02:01:08]:
I want to be mirroring each other's movements throughout the entire.

Leo Laporte [02:01:11]:
Yeah. All right. CME 295 transformers and large language models. Yeah. I mean, that's going to be a good course.

Benito Gonzalez [02:01:18]:
The question for Lisa is like, does.

Leo Laporte [02:01:20]:
She want to learn how to understand how they work? She wants to use them.

Benito Gonzalez [02:01:26]:
So there is no real consensus on that. So how can anyone have a course like. No one?

Leo Laporte [02:01:30]:
Yeah. I don't know if there is a good answer to that. There's lots of places you can learn about the underlying technology, but I don't. I don't.

Jeff Jarvis [02:01:38]:
And one of Jason, if you go.

Leo Laporte [02:01:39]:
To X, you'll see a thousand posts. I have the 13 best prompts ever. And you'll never need to know it again.

Jeff Jarvis [02:01:47]:
Well, here's another one is I should share with her because I still have one. Nate B. Jones. He. Have you watched any of his full videos?

Leo Laporte [02:01:55]:
No.

Jeff Jarvis [02:01:56]:
That I sent you. I sent you and you said you wanted to get it and you didn't watch it. Leo, you.

Leo Laporte [02:02:00]:
I'm sorry, I'm busy. Oh, I actually have seen this guy. I like this guy.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:06]:
He's really good. What? He has very short.

Leo Laporte [02:02:08]:
Watch these videos.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:09]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:02:10]:
I watched the shorts.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:10]:
I didn't watch the short ones. The long ones are amazing.

Leo Laporte [02:02:13]:
And he.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:13]:
He'll take you through how he made something with it in detail. He's great.

Leo Laporte [02:02:17]:
That's kind of what you want.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:22]:
Beautifully. It's 35 minutes of just an explanation I've been trying to get.

Leo Laporte [02:02:25]:
That's the one I watched. I watched his Grok explanation.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:28]:
It was really good, I thought. Right. Yeah. He knows his stuff, but he also does practical things. Like here's how he used Nano Banana to make a whole. To put his life as a. As a. As a game board on a huge screen.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:40]:
You know, he does that kind of stuff. It's like he could make.

Leo Laporte [02:02:45]:
I mean, these things are great because they give you ideas about how you can use it.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:49]:
Yes.

Leo Laporte [02:02:50]:
But the beauty of this is it's yours. It's very. It's highly personalized. You. You have it do exactly what you want it to do and what you need it to do.

Jeff Jarvis [02:02:59]:
Do.

Leo Laporte [02:02:59]:
Now he has his own community on his website, natebjones.com actually, after you sent me that, I thought about signing up for this. I thought, this kind of looks kind of.

Jeff Jarvis [02:03:09]:
I'm paying 200 bucks for him.

Leo Laporte [02:03:11]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [02:03:11]:
And it's a lot of stuff. The other one is the Jason Heiners. I signed up for his newsletters when we started the show.

Leo Laporte [02:03:16]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [02:03:16]:
One of them is. The first one is ideas about how to use this in business.

Leo Laporte [02:03:21]:
Yeah, there are. That's what I think is there's a.

Jeff Jarvis [02:03:25]:
Lot of resources like that. I think a course. No. People ask me for a book to read. No.

Leo Laporte [02:03:30]:
That's going to be out of date by the time they put it on the paper.

Jeff Jarvis [02:03:32]:
There's just too much. It's too broad. It's like saying, can you teach me computers?

Leo Laporte [02:03:38]:
It's really important again, that you have that metaphor that I cannot drink this river. It's impossible. I can dip into it. And I'm going to look for little things that I can use that I can try, you know, that I can tailor to my life. And I think it's not a bad thing to start with. Well, I want to. Can you help me with a to do list or something like that? Or I've got to plan a wedding or maybe a New Year's Eve Eve party and go from there. But don't attempt to drink the whole ocean.

Jeff Jarvis [02:04:10]:
Well, the news part of it. I irritate you every week, putting tons of things into the rundown. But that's how I learn. I see all this stuff going on.

Leo Laporte [02:04:17]:
No, I don't. It doesn't irritate me. It's just I can't absorb it. So I have to let you pick the stuff that you want to highlight because I can't absorb it. All right. What is Nate B. Jones background? Is he.

Jeff Jarvis [02:04:31]:
I don't know.

Leo Laporte [02:04:32]:
I don't think he's a technologist particularly. He says AI strategist and product leader about. Anyway, yeah, I was impressed. I was impressed.

Jeff Jarvis [02:04:46]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:04:47]:
The problem is there's a lot of snake oil going around too, because it's the hot thing. So there are a thousand people who say, I can teach you everything you need to know. And yeah, a lot of that.

Jeff Jarvis [02:04:55]:
Oh, there's horrible online conferences. That one we made fun of a few weeks ago.

Leo Laporte [02:04:58]:
Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [02:04:59]:
I just saw another one being promoted. Gary Vee speaking at an AI Conference.

Leo Laporte [02:05:04]:
Yeah. Once it becomes Gary V. Really know AI once it's become a money maker. Stand back. You're watching Intelligent Machines. Jeff Jarvis. Paris Martineau. So glad to have you, Paris.

Jeff Jarvis [02:05:20]:
Paris looks deep in thought.

Paris Martineau [02:05:21]:
Sorry, I'm back on tomato game.

Jeff Jarvis [02:05:24]:
I thought so.

Paris Martineau [02:05:25]:
I've gotten distracted.

Leo Laporte [02:05:26]:
No good. See. Are you able to vibe coding it now?

Paris Martineau [02:05:30]:
Trying to.

Jeff Jarvis [02:05:31]:
Good.

Paris Martineau [02:05:31]:
What are you using right now? I'm using. I'm using both chat, GPT and CL Claude.

Leo Laporte [02:05:38]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [02:05:38]:
And we'll see.

Leo Laporte [02:05:39]:
That's another useful way to do it is is combining these things the other. What what A lot of the latest, you know, techniques involve creating sub agents and MCP servers and having AIs use other AIs and. And collaborating. People are trying a lot of very interesting things. It's a very, very vibrant and fertile area right now and I don't think there is any single pass at this point.

Paris Martineau [02:06:03]:
So no, I need to install pillow but it's given me tomatocamepy. I don't know what pillow is.

Leo Laporte [02:06:15]:
Pillow is probably like Pygame. It's another library. This is the problem I ran into is now I've got to install a bunch of stuff. Yeah, there is a. We've talked before for people who want to try AI locally and we talked a lot about that. I'm going to talk about that in just a moment. You're watching Intelligent Machines. But first a word from Helix and my mattress.

Leo Laporte [02:06:38]:
Helix Sleep. I got a great sleep score last night. I can't remember, it was like 88, 89. Felt so good. Helix Sleep. How are you preparing for the chilly season, the winter? You're spending more time indoors, I bet. Wouldn't it be nice have a comfy mattress to curl up on with your kitty cat gizmo or to read a lovely book with or maybe to play a tomato game. Stay comfortable inside with your Helix mattress.

Leo Laporte [02:07:06]:
No more night sweats, no back pain, no motion transfer. Don't settle for a mattress made overseas with low quality and questionable materials. Rest assured, your Helix mattress is assembled, packaged and shipped from Arizona within days of you placing your place the order. And they make it just in time as you order Made to order, which is wonderful. You can also take the Helix Sleep quiz which will match you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs. It's exactly what we did. Lisa and I took the quiz. It says side sleeper, front sleeper.

Leo Laporte [02:07:42]:
Do you. Do you want a cushy mattress? Do you want a hard mattress? And it gave us the perfect mattress. We love it and I have to tell you, it is has greatly improved my sleep. My deep sleep is better, it's longer. I sleep overall longer. In fact, this is exactly results that came back from a Wesper sleep study. Helix did. They measured the sleep performance of people after switching from their old mattress to a Helix mattress.

Leo Laporte [02:08:08]:
Here's what they found. 82% of the participants saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle. In fact, on average they achieved 25 more minutes of deep sleep per night. Now honestly, deep sleep for me it's an hour, an hour and a half to get 25 more minutes is a massive improvement. And that's the sleep that matters. That's the sleep that cleans your brain. You know, that's where you really get the health benefits. Participants on average achieve 39 more minutes of overall sleep per night.

Leo Laporte [02:08:37]:
That's because less time tossing and turning, less time staring at the ceiling, more time sleeping blissfully away time and time again. Helix Sleep remains the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. Both picked it as their favorite mattress. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US and rest easy because you get seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee provides a risk free customer first experience ensuring you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. By the way, you couldn't get my mattress out of my sleeping hands. I love our Helix Sleep. No thought about returning it.

Leo Laporte [02:09:20]:
We love it. Best mattress we've ever had. Go to helixsleep.com machines for 27% off sitewide during the new year sale extended Best of Web and that's exclusively for listeners of intelligent machines. You go to helixsleep.com machines for 27% off the new year seal extended that's Best of web. Now the offer does end 1-11-11. So go there right now and do enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. And if you're listening after January 11th, you still should check them out. There's always great deals@helixsleep.com machines.

Leo Laporte [02:09:57]:
Thank you Helix Sleep for a a great mattress. I'm very comfy and cozy. I look forward to you know that when you have a great bed and a great mattress. I don't know if you've ever had this experience if you hadn't get the Helix Sleep. But you, when you go, when you lift the coverage, you get in and you go ah, that's such a good feeling. The end of every day I've got an ah. Thanks to helix sleep helixsleep.com Machines the idea of running an AI locally is, I think, a good way to get started with this too. Instead of paying, I pay 20 bucks to Anthropic, to OpenAI, to Gemini, to Go Google, to Perplexity, to Kagi, and on and on and on.

Leo Laporte [02:10:42]:
But that's kind of my job. There are a number of different nice tools out there that people we've mentioned before. Studio LM Jan is a nice tool, but anything LLM has just announced the ability to add web searches to its models. So these are tools you can download anything LLM you can download. And we. Windows, Mac, Linux, it runs locally. You choose a model. So you know you have to start with an AI that you can download.

Leo Laporte [02:11:16]:
And there are many, many models out there. You can even just start with anything LLM's own stuff, but you can also. And all of these are free. They're what we call open weights. Right. Deepseek, Gemma from Google, Mistral, French AI company from Mistral.

Jeff Jarvis [02:11:34]:
I think you should say it's, I.

Paris Martineau [02:11:36]:
Got my first result back and it's from Claude and it's, you know, the how. We're discussing how Claude can't really do image generation. Right.

Leo Laporte [02:11:44]:
Is the tomato wrong?

Paris Martineau [02:11:46]:
I mean, the tomato is right, but the rest is a bit sad. I'm going to post it.

Jeff Jarvis [02:11:51]:
Can you share your screen?

Paris Martineau [02:11:53]:
No, I just created it. I think I published it. It's.

Leo Laporte [02:11:57]:
Well, it's giving you entertainment.

Paris Martineau [02:12:00]:
I'm very entertained. You need to click the link to see.

Leo Laporte [02:12:04]:
All right, here it is. Let's see artifacts. It's kind of primitive. Now, how do I shoot it?

Paris Martineau [02:12:13]:
Oh, there we go.

Leo Laporte [02:12:15]:
Well, that's a start.

Paris Martineau [02:12:16]:
It's flats, you know. You like to see it. It's got your little mic there.

Leo Laporte [02:12:20]:
I like how the tomatoes disappear at after a while.

Paris Martineau [02:12:23]:
I like that they do splat, though. I didn't even ask it to splat. I just said I'd like a tomato game.

Leo Laporte [02:12:29]:
Ironically, the tomato, it's got.

Paris Martineau [02:12:31]:
It put Club Twit there, which I didn't ask it to do either.

Leo Laporte [02:12:35]:
You didn't ask? It just knew.

Paris Martineau [02:12:37]:
Oh, and it said, aim for the Hawaiian shirt for maximum satisfaction.

Leo Laporte [02:12:40]:
Oh, you're right.

Paris Martineau [02:12:42]:
I was for the head. I told it. Well, I, I originally, you know, it's.

Leo Laporte [02:12:50]:
Quite sad to say. Satisfying even as primitive as it is.

Paris Martineau [02:12:52]:
Pretty satisfying.

Jeff Jarvis [02:12:53]:
Right.

Leo Laporte [02:12:56]:
Okay, Paris, you are a coder.

Jeff Jarvis [02:12:58]:
There you go.

Paris Martineau [02:12:59]:
I am, yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:13:00]:
Well, by the way, as primitive as it is, that's just the graphics. The rest of it's pretty sophisticated, actually. I mean, I think it's pretty good collision detection.

Paris Martineau [02:13:09]:
Cluds episodes take about 45 seconds and zero follow up questions.

Leo Laporte [02:13:14]:
The Club Twitch sign lights up from time to time. I don't know. Not sure why.

Paris Martineau [02:13:18]:
Listen, I'm just happy it's there.

Leo Laporte [02:13:20]:
There's stuff going on.

Paris Martineau [02:13:21]:
I like that Leo. That cartoon Leo just rocks gently back.

Leo Laporte [02:13:25]:
Side to side, moving slightly. That doesn't make it any harder.

Paris Martineau [02:13:30]:
He's unblinking.

Leo Laporte [02:13:34]:
But see, you could then go in and say, can you make the eyes blink every once in a while?

Paris Martineau [02:13:38]:
I think that would make it worse.

Leo Laporte [02:13:40]:
Well, you can play with it and then say, no, I don't want the eyes to blink. Very nice. Well done.

Jeff Jarvis [02:13:45]:
Good work.

Leo Laporte [02:13:46]:
Very good.

Jeff Jarvis [02:13:46]:
You're a nice job.

Leo Laporte [02:13:48]:
Tomato toss Leo edition. Look anywhere to throw tomatoes at your favorite tech podcaster. Did you put that in or did it.

Paris Martineau [02:13:55]:
No, I. So my entire prompt was. Well, let me see if I can go back here.

Leo Laporte [02:14:01]:
Claude. That's pretty impressive, actually, that you did that in about five minutes.

Jeff Jarvis [02:14:06]:
Yeah, exactly.

Paris Martineau [02:14:08]:
Not even the amount of time I spent squinting at the screen is me trying to get chat GPT to do it. I. After you guys asked me what's up. Also paste it in Clud. I texted Create. Create a GUI game where you throw a tomato at my friend Leo pictured and included a screenshot of you sitting in your chair. Wow. And it was.

Leo Laporte [02:14:27]:
That's it.

Jeff Jarvis [02:14:28]:
That was it.

Paris Martineau [02:14:29]:
That was it.

Jeff Jarvis [02:14:29]:
So it saw the Club Twitch behind him. Is that what it did?

Leo Laporte [02:14:33]:
Yeah, that's what that is.

Paris Martineau [02:14:34]:
That's it. That's her Club Twitch.

Jeff Jarvis [02:14:36]:
Come up.

Leo Laporte [02:14:37]:
Oh. Huh. You could say make it more realistic. I'm sure it would do that.

Paris Martineau [02:14:44]:
Let me see.

Jeff Jarvis [02:14:45]:
Oh, now we. We've lost Paris into coding. You've done it, Leo. You've done it. You down into the vortex.

Leo Laporte [02:14:53]:
It's. If nothing else, it's a fun toy, but I think it is a lot more than that. I. I'm. I'm very intrigued by it.

Paris Martineau [02:14:59]:
I'm saying make it more realistic and make Leo move wildly around. Around the screen.

Leo Laporte [02:15:03]:
Oh, that's too hard now. You made it too hard. Harvard has a whole bunch of online courses as well on AI that you can take for free, I think. Yeah, that. I also. Yeah. Three Blue, One Brown is an excellent YouTube channel for learning about that. They have a very good course on neural networks.

Leo Laporte [02:15:26]:
But I think what Lisa is not looking for is how it works or what's the underlying technology. But really, how can I use AI? And that's a harder one to answer because it's so personalized. Scripty is put as.

Benito Gonzalez [02:15:38]:
We're still in the experimental phase of all this. Like, everybody needs to try stuff. That's the whole point right now, is like, everybody needs to try things. And in a sense, it's really a SaaS product. It's not really for us.

Leo Laporte [02:15:53]:
I think people are doing some pretty amazing things. Let's see. So here's. Golly. Is a dragon release to throw tomatoes. Let's see. Where's the tomatoes? Oh.

Jeff Jarvis [02:16:08]:
Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:16:10]:
I'm the tomato, apparently.

Paris Martineau [02:16:14]:
I like that. I think that's pretty good.

Jeff Jarvis [02:16:18]:
It doesn't.

Leo Laporte [02:16:19]:
Made in Bolt. I don't know what Bolt is, but. Thank you, Galia. Very fun. So we got everybody to do this.

Benito Gonzalez [02:16:27]:
You need to drag from where it says drag and release to throw tomatoes. Drag from there.

Leo Laporte [02:16:31]:
Click.

Benito Gonzalez [02:16:31]:
And drag from there.

Leo Laporte [02:16:32]:
Oh, oh, I see. Oh, I didn't. Human error. Drag and release.

Paris Martineau [02:16:41]:
So you got to drag back, I think, maybe. Right. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:16:45]:
So do.

Jeff Jarvis [02:16:46]:
There's a tomato. Look, there's a tomato.

Leo Laporte [02:16:47]:
Now underneath it, the tomatoes are there. You're right. I'm dragging them the wrong way. I don't have a lot of drag room.

Jeff Jarvis [02:16:58]:
You got a score.

Leo Laporte [02:17:03]:
My screen's too short. I can't. I can't get the tomatoes.

Jeff Jarvis [02:17:06]:
Yeah.

Benito Gonzalez [02:17:06]:
The slingshot needs to be higher.

Leo Laporte [02:17:08]:
Yeah. Whoa.

Jeff Jarvis [02:17:15]:
It's counting as getting you, even when it doesn't hit you.

Benito Gonzalez [02:17:18]:
You.

Leo Laporte [02:17:22]:
Well, it's fun. We just need a little bit more play for the. All right. But those are real tomatoes. Now. Is Bolt an AI product? Galia? All right, we're going to try one more time. Did you. Did you.

Leo Laporte [02:17:37]:
Is it better?

Paris Martineau [02:17:38]:
No, it's way worse. Again. I said make it more realistic and make Leo move wildly.

Leo Laporte [02:17:45]:
I'm just a black blob now, but there is a boom when the tomato hits me. I think it's direct hit. Where's Leo? I don't know.

Paris Martineau [02:17:59]:
I like that. There's a Leo speed in the corner.

Leo Laporte [02:18:02]:
Juicy up top. It says, oh, I could turn the speed down, maybe quicker. Can I turn the speed down?

Paris Martineau [02:18:09]:
I don't think so. I think that's just for you. Just for you to know that he could be fast.

Leo Laporte [02:18:14]:
Combo.

Jeff Jarvis [02:18:15]:
Oh, no.

Benito Gonzalez [02:18:16]:
It goes faster the more you hit it. It gets faster the more you hit it.

Leo Laporte [02:18:19]:
Oh, no. Oh, no. Combo four. Combo.

Jeff Jarvis [02:18:25]:
Boom.

Leo Laporte [02:18:25]:
Combo five. I'm getting good at hitboxes.

Benito Gonzalez [02:18:28]:
Too big. The hit box is way too big.

Paris Martineau [02:18:29]:
I don't think. I'm not even.

Leo Laporte [02:18:31]:
Yeah, not even hit. That's okay. I want a big hit box.

Paris Martineau [02:18:36]:
Oh, the hitbox is Too big. You're right.

Leo Laporte [02:18:39]:
But you tell it.

Paris Martineau [02:18:40]:
I like that sometimes. It says got him. I like the icon that happens when you throw the tomato.

Leo Laporte [02:18:45]:
Oh, I slowed him. It slowed him down. Oh, now he's. Whoa.

Paris Martineau [02:18:50]:
Splat, boom. Combo.

Jeff Jarvis [02:18:54]:
But are you.

Leo Laporte [02:18:55]:
You're gonna see a lot of these on app store and other places.

Benito Gonzalez [02:18:59]:
Oh, yeah, Anthony just. Anthony just said in chat. It reminds me of the old flash game days. Flash games back in the day.

Jeff Jarvis [02:19:04]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:19:05]:
These are flash games. Yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [02:19:06]:
All right. Is this slop? Game slop?

Leo Laporte [02:19:10]:
I mean, you wrote it.

Paris Martineau [02:19:12]:
It's game slop. It is ostensible. It is game slop. But I love it.

Leo Laporte [02:19:16]:
It's that slope game.

Paris Martineau [02:19:17]:
Slop is derogatory or slop is derogatory. I love something that's derog.

Leo Laporte [02:19:21]:
It seems it bounces off the old tomatoes. So I can. I can slow it down by giving. I can rein it in. Oh, oh, and again, like what?

Jeff Jarvis [02:19:34]:
You left.

Leo Laporte [02:19:35]:
Good game, Paris.

Benito Gonzalez [02:19:36]:
That's fine.

Leo Laporte [02:19:36]:
How much would you pay for this? Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good tomato toss. He's quick, but are you quicker?

Benito Gonzalez [02:19:46]:
Okay, this is great video, guys.

Jeff Jarvis [02:19:51]:
Sorry, sorry, people out there.

Leo Laporte [02:19:53]:
Let us. Let us get to the picks of the week. What do you say you're watching Intelligent Machines with. With our new slop creator, Paris Martineau and Jeff Jarvis, who does nothing but writes amazing books like the Gutenberg parenthesis.

Benito Gonzalez [02:20:07]:
Hold on magazine. We're short one ad still. We do still have one ad still.

Leo Laporte [02:20:12]:
I have an ad.

Jeff Jarvis [02:20:13]:
Yep.

Leo Laporte [02:20:13]:
Oh, yeah, you had three. I thought I only had two.

Paris Martineau [02:20:16]:
Are you dreaming?

Leo Laporte [02:20:19]:
I have an ad about my mattress. All right, we'll have the picks of the week in just a moment. All right, ladies and gentlemen, I think this would be a good time to get our picks of the week. And as always, I will start with Paris Martineau.

Paris Martineau [02:20:37]:
You know, I said that because I cannibalize my picks of the week that I was going to use a tomato based Leo games, which you also cannibalize that as well. So I'm gonna do a little bit of double dipping here. We talked about the spit in the pre show, but I. I had the flu over the weekend, but I'm here recording this podcast thanks to the wonders of modern medicine and Tamiflu. And I found this article from Bloomberg today really interesting about the fact that TAM flu, which is an antiviral to stop the, I guess replication of the flu virus, is now in short supply in lots of parts of the US because this, this bout of the flu is hitting the US So badly. They talked to Kind of some different pharmacists around.

Leo Laporte [02:21:25]:
Is there a name for this flu?

Paris Martineau [02:21:29]:
I think it's H3.

Jeff Jarvis [02:21:31]:
I think it's crappy.

Paris Martineau [02:21:32]:
N3 or H2N.

Leo Laporte [02:21:34]:
Yeah, it's not a good one. Yeah.

Paris Martineau [02:21:36]:
And it's like, it's a cluster. It's H3. N2. Called Claude K. Oh, not code. Well, and part of the reason why this flu in particular is so bad, that is whenever they decide on the flu vaccine, they have to decide what kind of specific sub target or I guess, like submutation of the flu. They're going to target that vaccine ahead of time because they have to manufacture it. And they chose a different one.

Leo Laporte [02:22:11]:
So they didn't get the right variant.

Paris Martineau [02:22:15]:
Yeah, they didn't have the right.

Leo Laporte [02:22:16]:
It was a year ago, practically, that they had.

Paris Martineau [02:22:18]:
Yeah, I mean, you gotta. You gotta decide early on this sort of stuff. And that wasn't right. So now this flu strain that already is kind of mutated is spreading like wildfire. So I don't know. One would recommend getting the flu vaccine regardless, because I think it's still. Still useful. I had the flu vaccine.

Paris Martineau [02:22:39]:
I partially attribute that to my fast recovery. But also, make sure you ask your doctor about getting Tamiflu if you end up getting the flu, because it really helps. But it really, really helps if you start within 12 hours of symptoms, like I did, because then it stops it from multiplying and shortens your symptoms by three days.

Leo Laporte [02:22:59]:
If you get Covid now, you got. I didn't even know this existed. You got a test test that is both a COVID test and a flu test.

Paris Martineau [02:23:06]:
You know, I didn't know it existed either until Friday when I was feeling bad and I was on the couch and I was like, I guess I'm. I'm out of COVID tests. I guess I'm gonna doordash a COVID test. Me.

Leo Laporte [02:23:15]:
Wait a minute. You ordered it on doordash?

Paris Martineau [02:23:17]:
Yes, because it was Friday and I live alone, and how else was it gonna get.

Leo Laporte [02:23:21]:
And they go, yeah, you don't want to go out and get it?

Paris Martineau [02:23:23]:
I. I also couldn't find any of my masks. I was like, I would want to get anybody sick. And I was like, well, I guess if I'm gonna get a COVID test, why not get a combo Covid flu test?

Leo Laporte [02:23:34]:
Sure I did. And a Nestle's Crunch bar. I understand.

Paris Martineau [02:23:38]:
And a Nestle's Crunch bar. And that made all the difference. Another one of my pictures.

Leo Laporte [02:23:45]:
I could just see you, you know, you gonna have a type of filter But I'm gonna get a test. Let me get a crunch bar too.

Paris Martineau [02:23:53]:
I mean, I thought about. I should have gotten two. Honestly, it's just. It looks like. It looks like a normal COVID test, but instead of one window where you wait for a line, there's two. And one of the windows has, you know, a control line area as well as a line for flu. A line for flu B.

Jeff Jarvis [02:24:12]:
So did you have flu A or flu B?

Paris Martineau [02:24:14]:
Flu A.

Jeff Jarvis [02:24:15]:
Flu A.

Leo Laporte [02:24:17]:
That's actually great because the COVID symptoms overlap the flu symptoms and you, you.

Paris Martineau [02:24:21]:
I mean, it's ideal.

Leo Laporte [02:24:22]:
Bad. Yeah. Because if you had Covid, you'd take Paxlovid. If you had the flu, you take theraflu.

Paris Martineau [02:24:27]:
I know. And in both cases I was like, I'm starting that immediately. Yeah, because it really.

Leo Laporte [02:24:32]:
Paxlovid works too, by the way.

Paris Martineau [02:24:34]:
It really works as well. I've taken that. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:24:37]:
Yeah.

Paris Martineau [02:24:37]:
Except for it does make your mouth taste like metal. But that's a reasonable side effect in my opinion. My other flu season recommendation would be babka from Zabars, which one of my friends dropped off from me. You can get it delivered to yourself. It was chocolate Bob say bars.

Leo Laporte [02:24:53]:
Oh, that's so good.

Paris Martineau [02:24:54]:
They ship it, so.

Leo Laporte [02:24:55]:
I know they do. I've had it shipped to me, by the way. I have literally 98.

Paris Martineau [02:25:00]:
It's delicious.

Leo Laporte [02:25:01]:
From Zabars and from Zingerman's, which is another great place to get your babka.

Paris Martineau [02:25:05]:
And I learned because my friend who dropped off supplies to me is gluten free. They have gluten free babka as well. So you know celiacs. Get it.

Leo Laporte [02:25:13]:
It's better with gluten, though.

Paris Martineau [02:25:15]:
Yeah, definitely. I'd agree every. Most things are.

Jeff Jarvis [02:25:18]:
Did you see one of the things that CES was a gluten detector you can carry with you.

Leo Laporte [02:25:21]:
Oh, God.

Paris Martineau [02:25:24]:
I bet it's just a little AI.

Leo Laporte [02:25:26]:
I have a gluten detector.

Paris Martineau [02:25:28]:
I was going to say, does a piece of food look appetizing? It probably has gluten. And lastly, happy birthday to Nicholas Cage.

Jason Hiner [02:25:37]:
You're.

Jeff Jarvis [02:25:38]:
Oh, you're here.

Paris Martineau [02:25:39]:
62 today.

Leo Laporte [02:25:41]:
Wow. Maybe next November we can have a. We can all have a nick of a nick of him.

Paris Martineau [02:25:46]:
No, I mean, I think we should all at least watch one Nick Cage movie in the club. And I did.

Leo Laporte [02:25:51]:
That's a good idea. You could pick the movie.

Paris Martineau [02:25:54]:
Yeah, great. I included in the rundown under my picks the week, a photo of Nick Cage's pyramid, which is where he's going to be buried.

Leo Laporte [02:26:04]:
He bought A pyramid.

Paris Martineau [02:26:05]:
He bought a pyramid. In 2010, he purchased two plots in a cemetery in New Orleans to construct a large marble pyramid.

Leo Laporte [02:26:15]:
Is he of the thinking that that will preserve his body? That's what some.

Paris Martineau [02:26:20]:
I don't know but he's got on on it says omnia ab uno. I don't know what that means but all.

Leo Laporte [02:26:28]:
All from one.

Paris Martineau [02:26:29]:
All from one. Everything from one.

Leo Laporte [02:26:35]:
That's the opposite of a pluribus unum. No, it's the same from one. Many, many one. Huh, Food for thought.

Benito Gonzalez [02:26:43]:
He's a, he's a impulse buyer though. He buys a lot of weird stuff. That's why he makes so many movies. That's why he makes so many movies.

Paris Martineau [02:26:50]:
This was I believe during the period where I like to refer to it as Nick Cage's pyramid debt period. But I'm not sure if the pyramid actually put him into debt. But it was a period where he was making so many wild purchasing decisions such as, as exotic animals, a lot of snakes. I think there was an island or two in there that he had to make a lot of some might say less high brow movies to God bless him.

Leo Laporte [02:27:15]:
You know what, if you're going to be a rich movie star, spend money on weird things. Yeah. By the way, Louis number one cemetery. Yeah. Instead of bugging us, I will also.

Paris Martineau [02:27:27]:
I will read one of the kisses age quotes.

Leo Laporte [02:27:30]:
Look at the kisses people have planted on the mall as they show should.

Paris Martineau [02:27:35]:
This is an interview he with Playboy magazine in 1996. Playboy says, Nick Cage, your salary is shooting up into the multi millions per movie. Reportedly 4 million to 7 million. Do these numbers make you chuckle, Nick Cage? I don't chuckle. I have respect for the dollar.

Leo Laporte [02:27:51]:
Chuckle. I don't chuckle.

Paris Martineau [02:27:54]:
I have respect for the dollar.

Leo Laporte [02:27:56]:
I have respect. All right, your pick of the week, Mr. Jeff Jarvis.

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:02]:
Okay, so I guess I'm gonna do this one. This one. So I bought, I finally bought a new phone. I finally and opened it and installed it. It's a Google 10 Pixel XL.

Leo Laporte [02:28:11]:
Oh good. Oh good. How do you like it?

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:15]:
It's, it's fine. It's nice.

Leo Laporte [02:28:16]:
It's just a phone.

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:17]:
It's just a phone. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's. But so my daughter got a new phone for Christmas and I was going into the, the Apple store with her and she was doing the trade in because we got a lot of money for the trade in. It's a good deal in the Apple and no, we had to sit there and wait while the whole thing transferred Over. And then while it uploaded, we sat there for two hours. Two hours in the Apple Store. They gave us a chair once.

Leo Laporte [02:28:39]:
Why did you do that?

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:41]:
Because.

Leo Laporte [02:28:42]:
Why didn't you go home and do it?

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:43]:
No, they wouldn't let you use. You have to stay here.

Paris Martineau [02:28:46]:
What?

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:46]:
We were imprisoned. We were. We were kidnapped by the Apple.

Paris Martineau [02:28:48]:
They tackled you?

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:49]:
Yes.

Leo Laporte [02:28:50]:
Wait a minute. So you got a new. What?

Jeff Jarvis [02:28:54]:
This isn't even the story. She traded in her phone for a new iPhone, and they made her transfer it over, and that made her.

Leo Laporte [02:29:03]:
Oh, she had them transferred over instead of her doing it herself, which you could easily.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:09]:
No, no, they wouldn't let her because they said, you have to give us the phone when it's all transferred over.

Leo Laporte [02:29:13]:
You because you just traded it in.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:16]:
You don't own it anymore. We own it all right.

Leo Laporte [02:29:17]:
Right.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:18]:
So then I also got her a screen.

Leo Laporte [02:29:20]:
That's not a good user experience.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:22]:
No, it's not. Not. Yeah, they're coming over, looking at us once in a while like, hey, we're still here. We're just sitting there in the Apple Store like we're. We're vagrants. Right? So in the old days, I used to do that. Right. It was the only place you get WI fi in the city.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:33]:
I'd go sit in the Apple Store. Anyway, so I got her a screen protector, and they do the way the screen protector. Now, if you've seen this, they put it in this. This device. Machine, and it pulls out and then it comes out. So we did that. That was fine. Went back to the car, and she bought a.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:47]:
A case. Case in Best Buy. Put the case on, Boom. Ruin the screen protector.

Leo Laporte [02:29:52]:
Oh, my God.

Jeff Jarvis [02:29:54]:
We just spent two and a half hours. An hour back to nightmare experience.

Paris Martineau [02:29:59]:
You don't need a screen protector. You don't need a case. I've been carrying around this phone raw, loose for years, and it's fine.

Leo Laporte [02:30:07]:
You're a very responsible unit.

Benito Gonzalez [02:30:08]:
I've done that since the beginning as well.

Paris Martineau [02:30:09]:
I drop this thing every single day.

Jeff Jarvis [02:30:12]:
Paris.

Paris Martineau [02:30:13]:
I dropped. I've dropped this phone probably three times today. Day.

Leo Laporte [02:30:16]:
Wow.

Paris Martineau [02:30:17]:
And it's. Well, they make them strong now.

Jeff Jarvis [02:30:19]:
So we go back in. They say, oh, this is. This is Apples good. This.

Leo Laporte [02:30:23]:
Okay.

Jeff Jarvis [02:30:23]:
No, no, that's not good. So they put on a new screen protector. I watched the thing goes.

Paris Martineau [02:30:27]:
Did you have to pay for it again?

Jeff Jarvis [02:30:28]:
No, no, no, no. They do it. They have to go through their. Their, you know, bureaucracy. I said, you put the case on now. Put the case on. Ruins it again. So my daughter, bless her Says, I'll just buy a case here, we'll return the, that one to Best Buy.

Jeff Jarvis [02:30:43]:
Clearly bad. She gets a clear case, puts it on, it works this time. So I, with my phone, I thought, well, should I get a screen protector? You're right, Paris. I didn't have one before. I thought I'll get one. And I saw this amazing thing online. This is going to be a confession from Toras. And it comes with a little device with the protector and stuff.

Jeff Jarvis [02:31:06]:
Just like the Apple thing. You put it in there, there and you put it in and you pull it out and then it's supposed to work and so there's video of this you can watch. So I'm, this is my stupidity moment. I'm really stupid. Then it says take this thing off your phone. Which I did, right. And there's this thing still around my phone that has a tab on the top and it's too big in the bottom and well, this is bad. So I email the company, I say this doesn't work.

Jeff Jarvis [02:31:35]:
I want to refund fund. And I take the thing with a tab off, saying, well, that just took a whole thing off. And it had left the screen protector on perfectly. Absolutely perfectly.

Leo Laporte [02:31:46]:
That's the whole point.

Jeff Jarvis [02:31:47]:
I had no idea that's the applicator. But as could be. That was the applicator. I now have a beautifully produced. So I, I wrote back to the company, I said I'm sorry and I.

Leo Laporte [02:31:58]:
Was emailed 20 times a day. But they're doing the things to let.

Jeff Jarvis [02:32:05]:
It's a Chinese company and everything was through God knows what Deep Seek Translate and they got no idea what it was. So I just said I'm very sorry, it works very well. So that was my little confession of Jeff's old age stupidity here.

Leo Laporte [02:32:18]:
Well, good for you. They, a lot of the screen now come with applicators because they realize no one can put these on.

Jeff Jarvis [02:32:25]:
No, they can't. You can't. It's always ridiculous and it's really, it's really nice. The screen protector is very good. It's placed it perfectly. It's. It's quite nice.

Leo Laporte [02:32:33]:
Does it feel like you're this.

Jeff Jarvis [02:32:35]:
No, it doesn't.

Leo Laporte [02:32:36]:
No, no, I've no, they're glass.

Jeff Jarvis [02:32:38]:
You know the whole point of the story is I didn't realize was on there.

Leo Laporte [02:32:41]:
They're tempered glass.

Jeff Jarvis [02:32:42]:
I didn't know it was there. Only when I finally looked at the end, I said, oh, oh, it left it. Oh, that's how it works.

Leo Laporte [02:32:48]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff Jarvis [02:32:49]:
It's two hours later.

Leo Laporte [02:32:51]:
So this is my pick of the week. Was Inspired by the RPG3. This is floor 796. This is a project by a Russian guy. He's been making this since 2018. It is a massive, massive gif, which is. You know, it is. Because 796 are the alphabetic letters for G, I and F.

Leo Laporte [02:33:15]:
It is supposedly floor 796. Yeah. It's a giant animated GIF.

Paris Martineau [02:33:21]:
And it's just one.

Leo Laporte [02:33:23]:
Yeah, he adds to it all the time. And there's a lot of Easter eggs in it. Wait a minute. Let me see if I can find Claude Van Damme, because he will. Who? You can click on people and they. Some of them do things. Yeah, there we go. You saw that one? Did something.

Leo Laporte [02:33:43]:
Let me see if I find Claude.

Jeff Jarvis [02:33:44]:
That's a very weird thing going on in that room down there.

Leo Laporte [02:33:47]:
Oh, it's. It's all stuff from movies. There's a Hannibal.

Benito Gonzalez [02:33:49]:
Yeah, it's all references. Yeah, these are all references.

Leo Laporte [02:33:52]:
Yeah, it's all stuff. Real stuff from movies and stuff. And he even has some Easter eggs. If I could. Ben Affleck. Smoking. There's a tardis. Oh, now.

Leo Laporte [02:34:08]:
Where? Where? Oh, well, I can't find him. Let me. Let me click the menu. Oh, this is. I know why this is when I downloaded so I don't even getting any help, but it's a lot of fun. Floor 79-6-com. It's a Russian guy. Look, there's the showers.

Leo Laporte [02:34:24]:
The mummy jumps out of the locker room. Russian guy's been making this for eight, nine years now.

Jeff Jarvis [02:34:32]:
Jesus.

Leo Laporte [02:34:34]:
Yeah, he's a little obsessive.

Benito Gonzalez [02:34:35]:
Waldo's got to be in here somewhere.

Leo Laporte [02:34:37]:
There. Waldo's in there. If you find Waldo, click on him. I can't remember where he is, but yes. Oh, yeah. Very good. It looks like a Where's Waldo? Doesn't it? Ah, there's. There's John.

Leo Laporte [02:34:47]:
Claude. Here he is.

Paris Martineau [02:34:49]:
Not Waldo, though.

Leo Laporte [02:34:50]:
He's just waiting. He's saying, come here, boy.

Benito Gonzalez [02:34:51]:
No, that's Chuck Norris.

Leo Laporte [02:34:53]:
Boom.

Jeff Jarvis [02:34:53]:
That's Chuck Norris.

Leo Laporte [02:34:54]:
I'm sorry. Chuck Norris.

Paris Martineau [02:34:55]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:34:58]:
He punches you in the glass so it's really.

Paris Martineau [02:35:01]:
God. That's what the Internet used to be all about.

Leo Laporte [02:35:03]:
This is what the Internet used to be.

Benito Gonzalez [02:35:05]:
Internet, Yep.

Leo Laporte [02:35:06]:
Doesn't it? It's just fun. I just like it. I'm glad that I don't know what's going on here, but it's kind of weird. Oh, that's a holodeck, I think. Yeah. Floor 796 of a space station. There's A lot of stuff going on. He's adding to it.

Leo Laporte [02:35:25]:
It's not done. He says. In fact, it's only about 59% done. You can turn on wandering and it'll wander for you. If you just want to have it as a screensaver or something that would. No, no. Floor 796. Do peak old Internet.

Leo Laporte [02:35:43]:
Exactly, Briggs. Exactly. But click on them because there are a lot of little Easter eggs in here. I think he has a list somewhere of all the different Easter eggs. Ladies and gentlemen, no AI create. This is slop without the AI actually. So fresh.

Benito Gonzalez [02:35:58]:
Oh, this is art. That's not slop. That's art.

Leo Laporte [02:36:01]:
No, this is art. I think this is art. Somebody's done a lot. A lot of.

Paris Martineau [02:36:04]:
Yeah, no, this is art. I thought you were talking about the podcast.

Leo Laporte [02:36:08]:
The podcast is.

Paris Martineau [02:36:09]:
That's fresh. Homegrown slop.

Leo Laporte [02:36:13]:
We do this show on Wednesdays. I hope you'll join us. Gluten free slop. We do it at 1400 Pacific Time. 1700 U East Coast Time 2200. No, 2300 UTC. If you want to watch it live, you can. It's on Twitch.

Leo Laporte [02:36:30]:
Twitch. It's on x, it's on YouTube, it's on LinkedIn, Facebook and Kick. All live everywhere.

Jeff Jarvis [02:36:36]:
You cannot escape us.

Leo Laporte [02:36:38]:
You cannot escape us. In fact, if you're in the club, you can even watch it in the club. Twit Discord. We would love to have you there after the fact. On demand versions of the show available on our website Twit TV IM. There is also a YouTube channel for the video. Great way to share clips and. And you can even subscribe to it because it is a podcast.

Leo Laporte [02:37:00]:
And get it wherever you get your podcast and that way you'll get.

Jeff Jarvis [02:37:02]:
Are you supposed to be promoting the survey every week?

Benito Gonzalez [02:37:04]:
One more thing.

Leo Laporte [02:37:05]:
Yeah, I forgot. Thank you. I haven't mentioned the survey once. This week we are doing the survey. It's all my fault. If. If we sign, it helps us immensely. Take about 10 minutes of your time.

Leo Laporte [02:37:16]:
TWiT TV survey 26. It just asked a few questions. We're trying to. It's the only way. We don't know about. About you. We can't because it's a podcast. We don't collect information about you.

Leo Laporte [02:37:28]:
But once a year we like to do the survey. It helps us sell ads, but it also helps us understand what you like and don't like about the programming. Who you are, what your interests are. So if you would. TWIT TV survey 26. We do this every year, even if you've done it before, please do it again. And thank you in advance. It's a big help.

Leo Laporte [02:37:46]:
We appreciate it. Thank you, Jeff Jarvis, Have a wonderful week. Week? When is your surgery? Is it before next week?

Jeff Jarvis [02:37:53]:
First, so. No.

Leo Laporte [02:37:54]:
So you'll probably miss a couple of.

Jeff Jarvis [02:37:55]:
No, no, I'm gonna. If you don't mind seeing me like.

Leo Laporte [02:37:58]:
That with an eye patch. No.

Jeff Jarvis [02:37:59]:
It'll be in the morning. So I think Pirate Jeff.

Leo Laporte [02:38:02]:
Well, okay, if you're up for it. If you're not, don't, don't. Don't hesitate to. To not do it. Yeah. Paris Martino. I was prepared. I thought, well, maybe Paris is going to still be under the weather, but you're a trooper.

Jeff Jarvis [02:38:14]:
Oh, you're. You're here in full. Fine. Fiddle.

Leo Laporte [02:38:17]:
Fine.

Paris Martineau [02:38:17]:
I'm here and I'm. My voice isn't even that shot.

Jeff Jarvis [02:38:20]:
Which is great.

Leo Laporte [02:38:21]:
No, you sound great. Ms. Mono is at the Consumer Reports where she covers food safety.

Paris Martineau [02:38:30]:
It's true.

Leo Laporte [02:38:30]:
And I saw a bunch of radioactive shrimp memes over the holiday and I thought about you.

Paris Martineau [02:38:35]:
I thought, wow, God, that's still got legs.

Jeff Jarvis [02:38:38]:
We need to do a radioactive shrimp game. Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:38:41]:
Oh, throw radioactive shrimp at Leo.

Paris Martineau [02:38:44]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [02:38:45]:
And maybe some lead based protein powder if you're really feeling mean.

Paris Martineau [02:38:51]:
Maybe.

Leo Laporte [02:38:52]:
Maybe, Maybe. Thank you, everybody. We love you. It's good to see you. Happy New Year from the Intelligent Machines gang and we'll see you next week. Bye.

Jason Hiner [02:39:01]:
Bye.

Paris Martineau [02:39:02]:
Bye.

Benito Gonzalez [02:39:04]:
Bye.

Leo Laporte [02:39:05]:
I'm not a human being.

Paris Martineau [02:39:08]:
Not into this animal scene. I'm an intelligent machine.