Intelligent Machines 830 transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:01 - Leo Laporte
It's time for Intelligent Machines. Paris Martineau is here. Jeff Jarvis is here. We start the show with an interview with Ian Kreitzberg. He's the new AI correspondent for PuckNews. We will show the actual humans who beat the AIs in the International Math Olympiad. And what does Mark Zuckerberg say about the future of super intelligence? All that and more coming up next on Intelligent Machines Podcasts you love. From people you trust.

This is TWIT. This is Intelligent Machines with Paris Martineau and Jeff Jarvis, episode 830, recorded Wednesday, july 30th 2025. I pay a gentleman on Etsy. It's time for Intelligent Machines, the show where we cover the latest in AI, robotics and those smart little doohickeys and devices all around us. And here to be intelligent is Paris Martineau, investigative reporter at Consumer Reports. Yay, we can say yay. Have you started the?

0:01:10 - Jeff Jarvis
job. Oh, I have, I started the 21st.

0:01:13 - Leo Laporte
Are you already investigating?

0:01:15 - Jeff Jarvis
I am, I'm investigating, I'm journalism I'm doing it all Very good. Also for those watching the video. I'm only red because Leo made so many little flubs at the beginning of us doing the intro. It made me giggle and now my face is good and just get progressively oh, it's cute, it's adorable.

0:01:31 - Leo Laporte
You don't don't even worry about it. Uh, Jeff Jarvis, he never gets red. He's not cute or adorable, pasty pale, but he is the emeritus professor of journalistic innovation at the craig newmark graduate Journalistic Innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City of New York, craig Newmark, the University of New York, now at Montclair State University in SUNY Stony Brook. Author of Early Modern Publishers. What's that?

0:01:56 - Speaker 5
Well, I have the afterword in that Ah okay, the afterword.

0:02:01 - Leo Laporte
You're the final word.

0:02:02 - Speaker 5
It's an academic book that they cost like $180. No one's going to buy it, but you know.

0:02:07 - Leo Laporte
It's too bad they put it together with gaffer's tape, but okay. Also. Author of the Gutenberg Parenthesis, which is a fine book, and the Web we Weave, which has been supplanted by early modern publishers, apparently, and a magazine now out in audio at your favorite audio book store. We have a special guest today. I'm really happy to have him. In fact, I sent him an email as soon as I saw that he had joined one of my favorite publications, which is pucknews. It's kind of an irreverent publication about technology, about media and AI. Ian Kreitzberg is the new AI correspondent at Puck News. Welcome, ian. Yes, I am yeah Good to be here. It's nice to have you. Is this something you've been interested in for a long time or did this suddenly come up? Yeah.

0:02:58 - Speaker 6
I've been doing this for a couple of years. It probably tracks the whole rise of chat GPT, right? Um, I was doing business and tech journalism, uh, at the street, and my focus was on, uh, you know, elon and the mag seven guys. Oh, that must've been fun.

Oh yeah, every day was just a fresh. Uh, you know, it's gotten weirder and weirder. Actually it has gotten. I am very glad that now my sole focus is ai, because, as weird as that gets, I don't have to go through elon's twitter profile, uh, every minute of every day, and so that's a major improvement well, and ai, uh, you know, look, I've been covering technology since believe it or not, since the 70s, and AI is still steam powered back then I was going to say people are saying there wasn't even technology back then.

0:03:51 - Leo Laporte
There was, but it wasn't great. But the point being people. I've seen a lot of things come and go, and I've even seen a few AI winners in my time, but this is perhaps the most interesting technology breakthrough, getting, by the way, more interesting by the minute. So you've got a great beat.

0:04:11 - Speaker 6
Yeah, there's definitely no shortage of stuff to do, stuff to cover. I'm always I never have the problem of, you know, trying to make something out of nothing, trying to find the next story, that there's always just so much going on that you know you kind of got to just be really picky and choosy and drill down on what you actually want to focus on.

0:04:33 - Leo Laporte
That's been my experience too. We have more stories than we can cover here. This is puck news. And there's the. There's Ian's actually, this is the first thing I was going to ask you about the AI action plan. There's David Sachs over Donald's left shoulder. He is the AI and crypto czar, and this is funny because David Sachs is also the co-host of a podcast with Jason Calacanis, called All In, and they hosted this presidential announcement. Maybe a little jealous, I'll confess I was, you know, but I didn't have to sit down with JD Vance and pretend I was talking to an intelligent person. So there's that. Anyway, tell me about this big, beautiful LLM, as you, as you call it. Mike Masnick said there's some good stuff and there's some really dumb stuff yeah, that's probably a good uh, probably a good summarization of it um.

First of all, they threw out what joe biden had done in 2023.

0:05:39 - Speaker 6
Right yes, that's gone. The first thing that trump did when he took office is this you know, you know, it's like the, the flurry of executive orders that he throws in there, and, and one of the first ones was just rescinding Biden's executive order on AI.

0:05:54 - Leo Laporte
Um, was this? Because he had been elected by Silicon Valley, and especially by people like Peter Thiel, and their interests in AI didn't coincide with Biden's desire for safe, secure AI. Was that? I mean, was this at the behest of Peter Thiel, is, I guess, what I'm asking.

0:06:13 - Speaker 6
It certainly seems like it that I mean, and not not even just Peter, but you know the.

0:06:20 - Leo Laporte
Sam Altman and Larry Ellison and Sun Sun who came in and did that Stargate announcement of half a trillion dollars in AI Yep.

0:06:29 - Speaker 6
And before the whole falling out his relationship with.

0:06:31 - Leo Laporte
Elon Well, Elon, I forgot about Elon already. You can't forget about.

0:06:35 - Speaker 6
Elon, I wouldn't want that.

0:06:39 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, Elon is probably lobbying for this too. So what is the new regime?

0:06:50 - Speaker 6
this too. So what did so? What did what, if? What is the new regime? The new regime is, very expectedly, an, a deregulatory regime. Yeah, uh, it's all like everything that we're seeing is very much centered around this kind of narrative about the race with china um, that you know. However, that's actually playing out, whatever is actually at the finish line with that race, which, to me and a lot of people, is very unclear. That is a narrative that the tech companies that are, you know, talking to Washington have been very successful in playing up, and the kind of result of that is this idea of national security as the justification for everything.

0:07:34 - Leo Laporte
In other words, if we don't do it, china will, and we've got to defend against that right.

0:07:40 - Speaker 6
Right, and so that's become the kind of overwhelming regime, as you put it, where that's influencing a lot of stuff, and the idea at its root of deregulation and the way they're describing it is that if we regulate, that will stop innovation, and we can't afford to stop innovation. Right now it's not at all clear, um, and actually we've seen the opposite in many cases that regulation does good things for innovation. Um, and I think it's kind of funny uh, to take that approach specifically to go after china, when china is one of the most regulated uh countries. When it comes to ai, they have very specific regimented rules of the road here, and our approach in terms of winning that race is what if we had no rules? So we'll see how that pans out, but the whole theme is just don't regulate, we can't regulate, we can't get in the way, and it's very much pitting regulation against uh technology they did say they took 10 000 comments.

0:08:55 - Leo Laporte
Uh, they say they did anything with those comments yeah, 10 000 comments and you doubt right probably all the the the comments are interesting.

0:09:12 - Speaker 6
Obviously you can't read all of them, right, but uh they did put them all online though. Yeah, yeah, it's just a lot to read. I'm saying you know, yeah, for for one person, unless you had had ChatGPT process, all of it, and summarize it. But a bunch of the major companies have posted their public policy briefs.

0:09:30 - Leo Laporte
Here's what a concerned American wrote. I think the AI has done, and will continue to do, more harm than good, especially without limits, if this act goes forward. We're DOMED All in caps, by the way.

0:09:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Why are you reading that with dumb person voice?

0:09:47 - Leo Laporte
no, that's smart person, I apologize.

0:09:50 - Jeff Jarvis
I apologize sorry, they sound so similar I.

0:09:55 - Leo Laporte
Did you read? How many of them did you read? Did you read a lot? Did you try to read a lot of them?

0:10:00 - Speaker 6
I didn't try to go through a lot of them. What I did read were the policy proposals from the big companies. Yeah, yeah, I bet there's an.

0:10:09 - Leo Laporte
OpenAI comment in here somewhere.

0:10:12 - Speaker 6
Oh yeah, yeah, there's an OpenAI, there's a Meta, there's a Google. Are they similar?

0:10:19 - Leo Laporte
in their needs or desires.

0:10:23 - Speaker 6
There's definite through lines and the interesting thing is if you read those and then you read the final action plan, which I mean I would encourage people to do because it's really not that long, it's also we should point out, not the law of the land, it's just an idea.

0:10:38 - Leo Laporte
It's a good idea, right.

0:10:40 - Speaker 6
Yeah, I think the best way to describe it is like a, an optimal wishlist of things to do. The funny thing is that or I don't know, maybe this is not the funny thing, but there's just so many interesting elements underlying all of this, and one of them is that, through Doge and proposals made by the Trump administration, a lot of the agencies that were tasked with carrying out or identifying how to carry out a bunch of the wish list items in this roadmap might not have the funding and or capacity to actually go through and do them. So, oh, interesting, it's not like this is a kind of ideal wish list, roadmap, um scenario that it's not clear. You know, like you said, it's not not a law of the land, uh, and it's. It's very unclear at this stage how those agencies will actually go about implementing, uh, some of these desires we can call them.

0:11:35 - Leo Laporte
This is what open ai wrote open. Ai agrees with the trump administration that ai creates prosperity and freedom worth fighting for, especially for younger Generations whose future will be shaped. How this administration approaches AI as a America's world-leading AI sector, approaches artificial General Intelligence with a Chinese communist I know Jeff. I was waiting for Jeff as it, with a Chinese Communist Party, determined to overtake us by 2030.

0:12:05 - Speaker 5
The Trump administration's new AI action plan can ensure that it's a nice touch, not just China or Chinese industry. The Chinese Communist Party, yeah, oh yeah.

0:12:14 - Leo Laporte
Yep, well, and part of the plan is to kind of go hand in hand with, like Saudi Arabia to do this. So I'm not convinced that they're less repressive than the ccp. Uh, anyway, um, okay, so let's talk about, uh mike masnick said by the way, as long as we're quoting mike masnick, one more mike masnick quote uh, talking about authoritarian governments, he says real innovation happens when companies have to compete on merit, not who can kiss the leader's ass most effectively. Uh, in an authoritarian system, the company that makes the dictator happy wins and that's it. So you know. And you could say, well, if he's talking about china, that's why china won't win. And you could also say, well, maybe that's what we're headed to in the united states, I don't know. Um, let's talk about the good first. I do you like? Touch regulation on ai seems like a good idea, yeah or no? What do you think?

0:13:15 - Speaker 6
it depends. My yeah, I mean that that's going to be my answer with everything. It depends, leo. Um, fair enough, that's not not untrue. My thing is that light touch or heavy touch is is less the should be less the focus and more the focus should be on how do you create a regulatory regime for something that is changing quickly and that is robust to handle as it changes and as it evolves? And I think I mean the tough thing is that the potential for misuse is just so remarkable and the potential for harm is so remarkable in such a number of ways that are not really covered by existing regulation.

And there's these outstanding questions that would not be a bad thing to instate protections, right, like, if you think of the auto industry, that industry did not want seatbelts. Regulators had to say, listen, seatbelts, we like seatbelts, we're going to do them and that's a positive innovation. Now, so that the, if, if regulators were able to think a little broader than a large language model, um, we might be able. That that's what I would want to see um, think broader than the specific technology, because ai is such this broad, vague term that so many other things apply to and things change. And if you try to create compute requirements. What if in two years we have really efficient models that get around the compute requirements but pose the same harm? Right, so there are.

0:14:53 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's a good point, yeah yeah, there's some evidence that that's happening in china.

0:14:58 - Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah, I mean, all these guys are pulling on efficiency. Um, efficiency is is a big thing. Some of them for different reasons.

0:15:07 - Leo Laporte
I think largely it's cost um, but we want more efficient models and that's a thing that that happens as things progress um, so you can't say well, if you're, you know, using a 100 to more h100 gpus, if you're using a thousand or more than you're under regulation, you can't say stuff like that because we just don't know. Or if you're a hundred million dollar company or a billion dollar company, you can't. Yeah, that makes sense.

0:15:34 - Speaker 6
But at the same time, we don't want to stymie the garage developers, the little little guys, either yeah, which is why for some I mean especially in the states right, the states are the guys that are kind of saying now you know, we're going to take a shot at actually regulating this and their idea, at least in New York, for example, is these kinds of sort of exemptions for universities, kinds of sort of exemptions for universities. And that's part of the attractiveness of a compute threshold or a cost threshold or a fiscal threshold is that, you know, if I say I'm going to only regulate models whose developers spent more than a hundred million dollars to train, then you're not hurting the garage innovators that are just tinkering with a GPU they picked up, uh, you know, and they're building something new. You're, you're really just saying I'm, I'm regulating the big tech, capital B, capital T, uh guys, um, and making sure that they're following some sort of rules of the road. So that's a very targeted approach to make very sure that you know, a university is not really spending $100 million to train a model. They don't really have that. But this opens them up where, if we only regulate at that fiscal threshold, then innovation and kind of base research can still happen.

But yeah, I, I don't know, I don't know if that's quite the best way forward. Um what's the?

most important regulatory thing to do what's the most important regulatory thing to do? That's a very good question. Um, I think that would the. The answer would or answer to that would depend on the kind of different sects of people that are dealing with this. I think there's a big job factor and the AI workplace factor, and are you, you like the? I in keeping with my idea of kind of creating a regime that's that's broad and applicable? I would say to me, the most important thing is automated decision making and rules across industries, specifically governments, uh, you know, police force, military rules around where automated decision-making is allowed where it's not.

0:18:10 - Speaker 5
So it's not the AI company. In that case, you're regulating. It's the users of AI, it's government using AI. The applicability. Right, it's the application layer.

0:18:21 - Speaker 6
I think that would become important.

I think for a lot of regulators it's more easy to think of targeting the companies because it's a little more obvious, but there's a lot of other stuff going on that is, you know, a cause for a number of different concerns, and I think a lot of that does come down to the idea of automated decision making.

Even you know, at the, the job level, is someone choosing to hire me based on an ai? Are they involved in that loop at all? Is that fair? How do we determine if that system is, uh, you know, exhibiting bias to something in my resume that you know that the human employer wouldn't do? Or, you know, extrapolate that out to military and policing examples, with predictive policing, which we know has really bad outcomes, and, you know, in the military, bombing targets selected based on a potentially faulty AI system, where a person is insulated from accountability because the AI maybe, maybe got it wrong or it was the AI doing something, and so accountability around decision making, I think, is something that is important to enshrine. Um, that wouldn't have compute thresholds and fiscal thresholds, and is this going after universities or is this going after big tech corporations? And so I I think that would be important place to to kind of start.

0:19:46 - Leo Laporte
It is ironic that the most terrifying use of AI is by the government, and of course, it's the government that's making these rules, so I can't expect them to regulate themselves. On the other hand, there's some good stuff. The plan calls for a stronger electric grid. We all benefit from that. I mean mean, obviously, the reason they want it is to power AI, but we could all benefit from that, unless it's all.

0:20:09 - Jeff Jarvis
It's all cold based on that that's the thing, and we're already starting to see um. There have been a number of reports uh of power bills uh going up for the average consumer in areas oh yeah, we pay more so they don't have to. Yeah, well, that's kind of the rule in the I mean, it'll be a stronger electric grid, but who will benefit from that?

0:20:29 - Leo Laporte
yeah, that's true higher security standards for data centers. Okay, more US made semiconductor chips. That's going to be a challenge. Um, we already we talked about that a lot on some of the other shows. Uh, the streamlining of the permitting process is that.

0:20:45 - Speaker 5
But is that federal? That's local governments. What is what is?

0:20:48 - Leo Laporte
that's well. They want to allocate federal lands for data centers okay, well there's that, there's that.

0:20:55 - Speaker 5
Yeah, you know, I think there should be a data center, yeah sure absolutely.

0:20:59 - Leo Laporte
Grand canyon is perfect. It's deep, it's quiet, it's got a river, it's perfect.

0:21:06 - Speaker 5
I think Alaska it cools it all down. We can melt the ice cap faster.

0:21:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, it could be nice.

0:21:13 - Leo Laporte
So you quote executive director of AI Now, which said the plan reads like the wish list for Silicon Valley's big AI firms. It doesn't just read it like it, it is, it is. Yeah, they got what they wanted. If you look at the comments from they wrote it, they wrote it in a way, they wrote it, they the.

0:21:32 - Speaker 6
The only thing they didn't get enshrined in the plan but it seems like something on this is coming is copyright, and you know, I'm I'm reading through the plan and I'm looking for the thing on copyright and it's not there he made that up. At the end he ad-libbed that Exactly.

0:21:51 - Leo Laporte
Yep, we go in the podcast speech unveil and he starts talking about copyright and it is written by you know, that part is coming straight from the mouths of the Valley as well, he heard it at dinner last night in Mar mario lago and now he's repeating it, although people like kathy gellis is a regular on our show and a constitutional lawyer says no, that enshrines the right to read.

That enshrines the first amendment I argue that constantly here so trump, if you didn't know, at the end said you know ai should be able to read anything. It should be able to ingest anything. Copyright shouldn't be able to stop it. Uh, and that's what kathy gillis uh thinks, although there's quite a debate over that, especially from the people who write the things that the ai is ingesting, or paint them or play them. You're a musician. How do you feel about that?

0:22:41 - Speaker 6
uh, this was actually my kind of first experience with AI, um, but with this idea of kind of the you know, auto generation of music and stuff, and like Suno, which we I'm kind of blown away by frankly yeah, I mean you see these kind of very impressive um examples of technology that I in in some way just kind of disturb a part of me that you know processes emotion by sitting at a keyboard Right and the. I mean I I feel like so much of this push and specifically the the first area. Like these guys talk about the big thing right Curing cancer and solving climate change. Of course they talk about this while making data centers that are not helping climate change, um, but not really helping curing cancer at least.

0:23:33 - Leo Laporte
No, it's a little carrot they dangle while they actually go for if only we free them up to do anything, then they can try it right, exactly, if we, as long as copyright's clear, then they can go on to solve cancer, because they need books in that model.

0:23:49 - Speaker 6
But the thing they're going after is media, and that's been it makes it. I feel like I've talked with family and friends about this idea of this kind of crisis of humanity. Where, ok, cool, where, okay cool. We've got a system that if you prompt it hey, chat or Claude or whatever write an article about AI and the voice of Ian Kreitzberg. It will do that, because it's read everything you've written. Right? Will it be good? No, will it make up?

0:24:23 - Leo Laporte
quotes. Will it make shit up, of course?

0:24:24 - Speaker 6
But it'll sound just like you don't know, I I've tried, I tried this recently and and I I don't think it sounds like me. Oh god, um. But I don't know, maybe that's just one gpt number away, maybe gpt6 will sound like me, that that's where they're angling towards. And when you're dealing with these kinds of systems, yeah, I, I, I wouldn't be surprised if you could get to a point where it could. You know, if I asked it, if I trained it on all my voice memos and I said you know, do a five minute piano improv in my style, I'm sure it could do that.

And then you get into that question of okay, we have something that can do this. Do we want it to do this? Do we want just an influx of of fake content? That, you know, not only hurts the business of the people who made it, which is not really a great business to start with, but I like consuming and interacting and engaging with art, um made by people, because art is fundamentally a way of like, a kind of empathetic way of connecting, seeing and being seen um, and to eliminate or further remove the human element and something that is just so innately human just feels kind of wrong very well, well said.

0:25:45 - Speaker 5
Yeah, I'm interested. This beat is so fascinating to me as a journalist. If you covered the internet or you covered personal computers or other things earlier on, it's not the same mix, because you have technology, you have business, you have policy, but you also have culture. You have the whole Tessorial Doomers, you have the Accelerationists, you have the Teals and the Musks. How do you approach? How do you think you're going to mix your coverage among those four pieces of pie?

0:26:24 - Speaker 6
Yeah, big pie pieces. Um, I, my, my goal is to kind of sit where the science is, and the challenge with this technology, compared maybe to some others, is that we are dealing with a good amount of hypothetical uh, hypotheticals and theoretical science, um, and so where, where? I? But my balance of those pie pieces is kind of like, okay, um, it's easy to say stuff, especially when those impressions, like we have a lot of science fiction to kind of pull on.

Where's the evidence for that stuff as we have it today? Right, you never know what we're going to have tomorrow. But, based on today's architectures, the history of science and technology and AI as it has led up to today, this moment, what do we have hard evidence for? And all these papers that come out? Right, are these robust papers? Are the results of your experiments reproducible? Wait, are you just seeing something that you want to see? And because ai communicates in language and uses self-pronouns, it's easy for you to kind of, uh, you know, see something in the mirror that's not really there, right, and and and I think this is- what the fda is doing right now.

0:27:42 - Leo Laporte
Exactly Right yeah. Oh it's just common sense.

Yeah, there's this. One of the reasons I don't take this AI action plan too seriously is because there's also this discordance between what the Trump administration is doing and what it's saying. For instance, they cut or they're proposing to cut, as you point in your article, $325 million to NIST. They want a 55% cut to the National Science Foundation. At the same time as they're saying we believe in science, we believe in advancing, they're cutting to the bone all of the parts of this country that do this kind of fundamental research. Is it that they just want a private enterprise to do everything, or is it that they don't really have a plan? You say that maybe the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

0:28:37 - Speaker 6
Yeah, it's hard to say I think a lot of stuff with this administration definitely seems like. I don't know if you really have a plan no.

0:28:47 - Leo Laporte
That's why I don't take it too seriously. It's like, okay, it's more words really.

0:28:50 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm curious do you think it is at all related to? I'm sure, as you've seen, I think over the last week we've had Elon Musk as well, as I think maybe it was either Sachs or Kalkanis kind of come out against academia as this, uh, terrible.

0:29:08 - Leo Laporte
Oh, this is mark andreessen and musk the last day or two the guy who became rich and famous because a university sponsored his development of the browser yeah, there's been this very property.

0:29:21 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, and concerted push towards casting off. Yeah, to pull up the ladder and cast off all of academia as some kind of superfluous, overly expensive and myopically concerned group. Do you think that that in some way plays a role, with this kind of strange right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing that you're seeing in legislation like this?

0:29:49 - Speaker 6
Yeah, there's definitely and the anti kind of university and all the problems with education like that. That's something that we've seen a lot from this administration that you know recently decimated the Department of Education. It's very interesting. You have this concerted effort to, it seems, change for the next generation where information is coming from and who they should trust in receiving that information. And this push of AI tutors and peer tutors and and uh to me a risk of kind of laundering information, taking people further away from first sources and and just dramatic disruption is what we talk about. But it's very interesting, like again in that context of you're you're going as hard as you can on AI, you want to win, you want American dominance, that that's the language, which is very strong language, but you're decimating all these scientific infrastructures.

And the reality is that where we are today, the transformer and neural networks and machine learning resulted over decades of robust societal infrastructure across not just NIST, but I mean also one that a lot of people don't really talk about.

Like NASA has done crazy work in advancing the state of the art in these areas robotics and machine learning because you have agencies that were finding ways to solve for the specific missions they were dealing with, but then it's also like immigration is one that has become a challenge. Now you want this robust infrastructure that supports the development in universities of new innovations and new ideas. And here you know you mentioned right at the top that you've seen a few AI winters and stuff, and I think there's possibly a concern of if we don't enable, like, what comes next? Right, if language models are not the end all be all and I don't think they are do we have a societal infrastructure in place to support the next innovation? The next, you know, attention is all you need paper, right, and that is being, you know, slashed and rolled back and stuff, and so there's a focus on the corporate side of what we have today, of the chatbot side, really, of what we call AI.

0:32:30 - Leo Laporte
This is the inshitification. Frankly, I have a theory and I think one of the reasons Elon Musk became disenchanted is because there are conflicting beliefs in the conservative movement. On the one hand, this historic anti-intellectualism I mean, adlai Stevenson was called an egghead and that's why he couldn't get elected as president, because he was an academic. And we don't like the Ivy leagues. Everything bad ever came out of the Ivy league Pinheads, pinheads.

There's also this notion of a business should be allowed to run without regulation and business should be. That's another common thread. And then there's this equal thread of fear of the other coming in over our borders and swamping our culture. But the problem is there are these conflict. You can't hate academia and want AI to succeed. You can't say, well, we don't want to be coming over our borders, well, we don't want anybody coming over our borders because we don't want those h-1b visa types. But that's if you look at who meta is hiring there for, for the most part immigrants running the super intelligence lab who came in because we had the best educational system in the world charge a lot of these companies and they came to america to learn about ai and a, and, and so we've got.

I think you have an internal contradiction that is ultimately going to be very hard to resolve. I do think it's why elon musk became disenchanted. He thought he, he thought he had it all under control, but he realized no, there's a big conflict here. Control, but he realized no, there's a big conflict here. Uh, yeah, I mean I. If there's a silver lining, it's that this can't possibly work. Unfortunately, it's, at the same time, the depressing part, because we're the ones that are going to get the consequences of all this thing not working coming crashing to the ground yeah, we're talking to ian kreitzberg.

His brand new newsletter must read the hidden layer. Uh, do you have to subscribe to puck news to get the hidden layer?

0:34:31 - Speaker 6
you do, but when you do that, you get access to all of puck which is so worth it.

0:34:38 - Leo Laporte
It is. I don't want to compare it to I don't know. It reminds me of some of the snarkier publications of an earlier internet era.

There's just great stuff, great reporting great reporting, and and all about hollywood uh, dylan byers, julia offey some of the best people politics yeah, got a newsletter for you for yeah if you so, subscribe to puck news and then sign up for all well, frankly, all the newsletters. But I think you got to get the hidden layer. You just actually I didn't realize this. You did you push this out while you were getting ready for the interview because the ai cold war? Did this just come out? Or is they just spot? It came out yesterday, they just spotlighted. I get it. The united states, and even Europe are rapidly cutting red tape, contailing their own regulatory guardrails to advance the interests of the private sector, all in the name of taking on China. What could possibly go wrong?

0:35:35 - Speaker 6
It's exactly what we were just talking about, precisely, yeah.

0:35:39 - Jeff Jarvis
When? How frequently do you publish?

0:35:42 - Speaker 6
We go twice a week, so Tuesday evenings and Thursday evenings. Uh, I'm, I'm jumping into your inbox, nice.

0:35:50 - Leo Laporte
Ian, I'm so glad that they uh hired you. I I've been a big fan of puck. They seem to have a real eye for Talent. Uh the best writers now uh working there, and I'm so glad the writers are in charge, right?

0:36:02 - Speaker 5
I mean, that's why, right yeah?

0:36:04 - Leo Laporte
yeah, makes sense. Yeah, you know, I'm curious amazing how many?

0:36:10 - Speaker 5
how large is the um group of people who are 100 devoted to covering ai? Do you get together? Do you have any ideas?

0:36:18 - Ian Krietzberg
just me oh no, I don't mean it broadly everywhere across journalism land the.

0:36:26 - Speaker 6
the interesting thing is that there's not a, a ton of ai only journalists, um, even at like tech places and stuff, that there there's a lot of people that will touch ai, but there's there's a small handful of ones who are only AI. I feel like, because it's this little group, we've all been in touch with each other. There's, like Sharon Goldman at Fortune, kylie Robinson she's now at Wired. There's some great freelance guys Garrison, lovely, I love Brian Merch and stuff. He does Blood in the machine um, so that there there's a, there's a there's a handful of people who are hyper focused on just this but considering, uh, you know how big of a thing this is, there's not a ton that is very impressive, yeah that's why we're here and that's why we kind of refocus the show, because I really believe that it is so important it needs to be covered in depth and unfortunately, this has always happened in it.

0:37:41 - Leo Laporte
And then you get journalists who for them, it's just a beat and, like Heech Hagee, they're going to write a book and then they're going to go do something else, and I think we need people who are both geeks and for whom this is their full-time beat. I'm glad Ian Kreitzberg is one of them. So thank you for being with us. We appreciate it and I'm hoping to get you back. Half an hour is not nearly enough time to really delve into these subjects, because I wanted to get to robo-taxis. You wrote a great piece on that as well.

0:38:12 - Speaker 6
I got a lot to say about robo-taxis.

0:38:15 - Leo Laporte
Can you summarize it In one line? Not one line. You can take as long as you want. It's your time, not mine.

0:38:25 - Speaker 6
As briefly as possible. Yeah, I would say could be interesting. Would like to see less hype and more guardrails and in focused specific areas we might have something that that works. Um, but where?

0:38:42 - Leo Laporte
are you located are?

0:38:43 - Speaker 6
you in the bay area? No, no, no, no, no, I'm on the East coast, I'm in New Jersey.

0:38:47 - Leo Laporte
So you don't get to ride around in Waymo's all day.

0:38:49 - Speaker 6
No, I think that there's a. There have been a few Waymo's spotted over here.

0:38:54 - Leo Laporte
Uh, doing testing for some reason, the only company that seems to have mastered this, yeah.

0:39:07 - Ian Krietzberg
And I think, something me as a person who lives in the East Coast.

0:39:09 - Jeff Jarvis
I didn't realize this until I went to San Francisco the other week. I mean, I obviously knew about Waymos, but I had assumed that they would maybe be cheaper than the average Uber. No, they're significantly more expensive than the average Uber to go somewhere. I mean, yeah, but why would I pay double as a consumer to go somewhere when it'll take longer for the Waymo to get to me because there's not as many of them? And just to have no one inside of it Like I don't care about not being around.

0:39:34 - Leo Laporte
You know a lot of women. It's funny. I can't remember who said this, was it a Broward Alhidi? I think it was on on Twit. She said I prefer to take Waymos because I don't want to have a person and a man in the car with me, especially an Uber driver. Often that's problematic, so that might be one reason. So here's my question.

0:39:53 - Speaker 5
I trust riding. I've ridden in a Waymo and it seemed trustworthy. I ain't riding in a Tesla.

0:40:00 - Leo Laporte
No, oh, no, no, no, no, I agree.

0:40:04 - Speaker 5
Okay, super, not I mean to be specific.

0:40:07 - Jeff Jarvis
Do you want to go into the detail of what the because I was? I think people have this common misconception that it's the same sort of thing.

0:40:14 - Speaker 6
It's not.

0:40:14 - Jeff Jarvis
It is not.

0:40:15 - Speaker 6
Yeah, so this is my thing when I said less hype please, which I mean Elon doesn't know less hype, it's not in his vocabulary, but you just have and part of it, like so many of my problems with AI. Like I would be a lot less critical of certain things if people just described things like freaking accurately. And Tesla has been on the full self-driving autopilot FSD thing for a long time and they've got a lot of lawsuits because a bunch of people have died or been severely injured because they think it's full self-driving and so they trust a system that they shouldn't trust and it fails. And now they have to specify. If you look at, they were told by a judge that they have to be specific now in their marketing. That it's full self-driving is the name of the product in parentheses supervised, and so now Tesla's robotaxi launch is basically the same type of technology, but unsupervised, although of course, there is a human person sitting in the passenger seat ready to take over I'm sure there's, you know tele operators as well. The thing that Tesla does is their whole idea is only cameras and neural networks, and we have all this data because our Tesla's drive around all the time and it'll just work.

The problem is that, like that's not enough. So the Waymo does cameras and neural networks as a base, but they also have radar and lidar and you know environmental sensors and that approach. It's all about redundancy layers and so if the camera fails for some reason I I don't know like weather or glaring sunlight or a shadow you have other systems that can jump in and make sure that things are okay and by having those three systems you're set for a better safety outcome. The problem is the robustness in all terrains. Right, lidar and rain bad mix, really bad mix. Lidar breaks or completely gets destroyed by moisture. Getting destroyed is fine because you have radar on cameras, but breaking and getting distorted that can be really dangerous. Obviously, moisture can bead on cameras, different angles and lights and stuff, and so what you have is something that is remarkably impressive, but does it work in all places? There's a reason that these things are rolling out in the West Coast and you don't really see them in Jersey or anywhere on the East Coast, where there's lots of storms and weather.

0:43:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, where there's climate that is and weather snow.

0:43:06 - Speaker 6
Yeah, where there's climate change that is changing on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, and so the tesla just has no redundant redundancy layer um, and it's all reliant on neural networks which, as we know, screw up. And so in their first little um deployment you had videos of tesla'slas. I saw one where they were braking for a shadow of a tree and no one got hurt. That's fine. The problem is on the road accidents happen when stuff happens that people didn't expect. And if I was driving behind that Tesla and there's nothing in the road in front of them and all of a sudden they slam on the brakes, that might have been a rear-ending collision, right. So yeah, the the tesla, I not only would I not get in um, I give them a very wide berth when I'm driving, because I don't know if they've got fsd on or not and I just like to stay, uh, you know, a few car lengths away as they say, on family feud.

0:44:04 - Speaker 5
Good answer, good answer.

0:44:10 - Leo Laporte
Well, it's lucky you're in New Jersey, because if you were here in the Northern California area, you would not be able to give Teslas a wide berth. It's every second vehicle and every third vehicle is a Waymo, so you're really kind of out of luck. Ian, what a pleasure.

Thank you for coming on. We'll have you back. In fact, maybe sometime you could be one of our other hosts in here. You could join us for the whole show. We'd love to have a little more time, yeah sure That'd be a blast. The Hidden Layer pucknews Subscribe. You really should. It's a great publication. Thank you, ian, do it yeah yeah, thanks, do it yeah yeah, Thanks guys, we're going to take a break. Come back with more of the. I have a few new AI devices to share with you oh no, which one of them?

0:44:51 - Jeff Jarvis
are going to go under within the next 15 months.

0:44:54 - Leo Laporte
I'll give you a hint it's glued to my temple.

0:44:58 - Speaker 5
Is it inside your temple?

0:44:59 - Leo Laporte
No, just glued to it.

0:45:01 - Jeff Jarvis
A tiny little incision could More to come in just a bit.

0:45:05 - Leo Laporte
You're watching Intelligent Machines, our show brought to you this week by those good folks at Zscaler. This is really a cool application of AI. They're the leader in cloud security, combining the ultimate security tool, which is zero trust, with AI. See, the interesting thing about AI is it is both a benefit and a threat to your enterprise. We know that hackers are using AI now to break in more effectively, more quickly. We also know that AI in the enterprise can power innovation, can drive efficiency. So it helps the bad guys deliver more relentless and effective attacks. It helps the good guys be more efficient and innovate.

It's a challenging environment and you're navigating it right now in your business. There's statistics that will chill you to the bone, like this Phishing attacks over encrypted channels increased last year by 34.1%, and that's because of the growing use of generative AI tools, plus other things like phishing, as a service kit, which likes any idiot getting the phishing business. On the other hand and I have to mention this organizations in all industries, from small to big, are leveraging AI to increase employee productivity. They're using public AI with their engineers to do vibe coding, coding assistance. Marketers are using AI to create campaigns, to use the writing tools. Finance is using AI to create spreadsheet formulas. It's very empowering. You can automate your workflows across all of the different parts of your business for operational efficiency, both in individuals and in teams. You can embed AI into applications and services that are customer and partner facing. You can. Ultimately, ai can help you move faster in the market and gain competitive advantage. But the problem is companies have to really think really think about how they protect their private and public use of AI, and that goes hand in hand with defending against AI power attacks.

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Zscaler's comprehensive zero trust architecture plus AI ensures safe public AI productivity, protects the integrity of private AI and stops AI powered attacks cold at ai and stops ai powered attacks cold thrive in the ai era with z scaler zero trust plus ai to stay ahead of the competition and remain resilient even as threats and risks evolve. Learn more at z scalercom security. Z scalercom security. We thank them for their support of uh intelligent machines and they just told us they're going to continue supporting us into 2026, so we're very happy to be partnered with zscaler zscalercom security. This just in from first squawk. Meta ceo says super intelligence will transform all systems in the coming years. Zuckerberg confirmsa's open source AI model strategy remains unchanged. Cfo adds Meta will finance most data center expansion, while also I don't know why it's in all caps.

0:49:05 - Jeff Jarvis
I like that you're reading it like it's in all caps.

0:49:08 - Speaker 5
It's his caps voice.

0:49:11 - Leo Laporte
Meta AI now has over 1 billion monthly active users. I guess we're getting the meta financial, uh, the quarterly results zuckerberg uh did a video live 117 oh, he also put out a text base.

0:49:24 - Speaker 5
It's the same. It's the same text. Yes, we're all going to have our uh super intelligent agents at our sides well, I do so.

0:49:34 - Leo Laporte
You may remember that my favorite.

0:49:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Remember all the other devices either didn't receive or did receive and had to wipe, but this one's we hardly do so I wore this bcomputer for since january, six months, seven months.

0:49:54 - Leo Laporte
Then they got bought by amazon, which is great. I'm happy. I'm so happy for them. Ethan and uh and lordis deserve that success. But uh, it does mean I just I'm not sure I trust amazon with that six months worth of data. So now I got the new thing, so remember I already got it I finally got it. I ordered it in the spring of 2024 patience comes to all, yeah well what it was is.

I asked for the iridescent model and finally I said you know you could send me the black one. They said, oh, that we've got. So this is in theory. This is the rewind. I'm I'm sorry Limitless pin. They were Rewindai now they're Limitless. Same idea it's always recording. It's recording right now. The thing I thought was interesting about this they announced at CES in January was initially they said so we're going to be able to recognize voices and when we hear a voice we don't know, we won't record it until you explicitly out loud in our hearing say I uh, hey, you know I have a terrible memory. They even give you a script. By the way, be self-deprecating. You know I have a terrible memory and would you mind if I uh used my little device here to record our conversation and transcribe it in AI to help me remember all the wonderful things you've told me? And if they consent, then in theory we're recording.

Are there specific words they have to use. No, it doesn't do that. They couldn't figure out how to get it to work.

No, it didn't matter because they said they were going to do that. But I think the real problem is voice discrimination is not that good, so it records everything and they say oh, okay. Yeah, and so, yeah, it records everything, and they and they say, oh, okay, yeah. And they say, oh, you know you should, you should give you a script, you should, before it's up to you, but you should really do this. Uh, anyway, it's not.

I have to say, the results aren't as it doesn't summarize leo's day like a it doesn't kiss my ass quite as nicely as the bee did, but it does give you a summary of everything I mean. This is today.

0:52:01 - Jeff Jarvis
And these are some highlights. Give us some highlights.

0:52:03 - Leo Laporte
These are bullet points. Okay. A discussion on Waymo's robo-taxi service, its Bay Area location and its perceived success. That's what we just did, yeah, yeah, it's from today, from this conversation. The show resumes with a Zscaler sponsorship segment, followed by AI news and a review of a personal AI device.

0:52:21 - Speaker 5
And we too thank Zscaler for sticking with Twit until 2026.

0:52:26 - Leo Laporte
So it says. An ad read for Zscaler highlights AI's dual role as a business threat and innovation. Breaking news for Meta's quarterly results. And then it knew it was me, so it says you, it says you for me and I can then assign other voices to it. So this is a transcription, pretty accurate transcription.

0:52:44 - Jeff Jarvis
It does save the recording.

0:52:45 - Leo Laporte
Oh, so it saves the transcripts, not only does it save the recording, although you have the choice of how long you can have it deleted?

0:52:52 - Jeff Jarvis
Have you had any interesting personal conversations that it has transcribed or turned into bullet points since you've gotten it?

0:53:05 - Leo Laporte
No, it's just this, it's not so. One of the things that B did that I liked is it gave me a to do list based on things that I kind of should. Sometimes it wasn't just stuff I committed to. It was, like you know, you and Lisa had a really emotional conversation about your cat going outside. Maybe you should plan a meeting with her to discuss.

0:53:26 - Jeff Jarvis
Maybe you shouldn't circle back.

0:53:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and I think that was Maria. That was. That wasn't Ethan, that was Maria. She was like the touchy, feely one she said we're going to use. Remember that. She said in the interview with us we're going to help your relationships. This doesn't help your relationships. Most of these other tools are very business-focused Pre-show setup and banter for the next show, intelligent Machines, with guest Ian, the host of Windows Weekly, and Drew Seuss. So it's all the stuff. So that's called my life log. I can't ask it questions. I don't know what the voice sounds like. I haven't. Hey, it's me, leo, your good buddy. Do you have a wait a minute? Do I have to press a button?

0:54:06 - Jeff Jarvis
I want you to tell it. Ask it what it thinks of you.

0:54:10 - Speaker 5
Yeah, I wanted to give you advice, okay.

0:54:13 - Leo Laporte
Based on the things you've learned about me in the last few days what are my vibes? What are my vibes? What's what are your insights? That's the question. Tell me what you think of me and be honest. Okay, it says let's pull together a snapshot of your recent vibes and some honest insights based on what I've learned from your life logs of I'm driven and curious oh, this is good, thank you this is good your work as a podcaster and founder of twitch shows you're always seeking new ideas.

Tech trends and meaningful conversations oh trump has to get this you approach topics with a genuine curiosity and a desire to dig deeper, never just skimming the surface.

0:54:58 - Jeff Jarvis
That's a great question.

0:54:59 - Leo Laporte
Leo, Warmth and wit. Whether interacting with guests, family or colleagues, you bring warmth and humor to the table. There's an easy rapport in your conversations. Is that related, Leo, or are you making this?

0:55:11 - Speaker 5
up right now no. I think Leo would have more interesting insights into himself yes incredibly boring self-congratulatory your family.

0:55:23 - Leo Laporte
Often family clearly grounds you. Even when work is busy, you carve out time for them and for cooking or playing piano, which keeps things balanced but please don't play the piano around me. It says uh, my honest. Take honest now, this is honest. You come across as someone who's intellectually sharp but approachable a rare combo. You value substance over now, don't you want it?

0:55:50 - Paris Martineau
you value substance over flash, but still appreciate life's lighter moments.

0:55:54 - Leo Laporte
people likely see you as both a leader and a collaborator, someone who sets the tone but listens. Well, if I had to sum up your current vibe, I'd say engaged, thoughtful, genuinely enjoying the journey, both professionally and personally. Actually, it's completely accurate.

0:56:13 - Jeff Jarvis
It knows me better than I know myself. I am a great.

0:56:17 - Speaker 5
It left out your sterling sense of humor leo I guess.

0:56:20 - Leo Laporte
I guess I could say let me, I mean, maybe I could.

0:56:23 - Speaker 7
This is funny, but like people are totally gonna buy into this stuff, like they're gonna oh, absolutely.

0:56:29 - Jeff Jarvis
That's why they make a people are going to uh look at this without any uh self-criticism or understanding of it being a complete sycophantic machine. What do you mean?

0:56:39 - Leo Laporte
It's perfectly right, it would say, if I wasn't a nice person. But I am.

0:56:46 - Jeff Jarvis
It would tell you if you were actually a rude sociopath.

0:56:51 - Leo Laporte
I'm going to keep wearing this, but now I'm going to wear two.

0:56:55 - Speaker 7
Now he has an entourage. He has an entourage of syc wear two. Now he has an entourage.

0:56:56 - Jeff Jarvis
He has an entourage of sycophants I have an entourage you should get a like a statement necklace, but of all of your, yes, things that have the have the battle.

0:57:05 - Speaker 5
Who's nicest to you?

0:57:06 - Leo Laporte
yeah today it came in the mail. This I ordered god I don't even remember or in fact, when this came, I thought what is this? I ordered this so long ago. This came today. The omi now that's interesting because it bills itself as wearable, chat, gpt, oh, which means it's okay speak, transcribe, summarize these. And I've been trying to applaud I'm not crazy.

0:57:31 - Speaker 5
What do you think of the plot you don't like I don't get the plot.

0:57:33 - Leo Laporte
In fact, I would get the rewind before I'd get the plot. Now, the only thing about the rewind I don't know if it has all day battery like which one is the plot? The plot is the one you see advertised on tick tock every constantly. Well, they've stopped.

0:57:45 - Speaker 5
I haven't seen it lately but then, but it was first it was at the back of your phone and then it's yeah, and then it has a pendant which I have. What does it do it?

0:57:53 - Leo Laporte
Same thing, but you have to say record this now. They got around that permission issue. You have to say record this now, press a button. Yeah, so it's really for going into a meeting, put it on the table and press the record button, and then now you'll have a summary.

0:58:07 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, if you want that, you can get this. Yeah, it's just like that.

0:58:11 - Speaker 7
Your phone can do this people. Your phone can do this people. Your phone can already do this people.

0:58:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Your phone can do this, or you could just have a dedicated audio recording. That's why I like it. That's what I mean about this.

0:58:20 - Leo Laporte
This is recording the whole, all the time, 24-7. That's the key, okay, and as a reporter, if you could get around the legal and ethical concerns, this would be an excellent tool.

0:58:31 - Jeff Jarvis
That's the caveat you love to have whenever you're a reporter.

0:58:40 - Speaker 5
Because it's okay. Everything's okay in jersey.

0:58:43 - Leo Laporte
I this everything's legal in jersey so I'm still charging this thing up, but it's, this is the one. Remember we saw the video of the guy sitting in the university lecture with this on his glued to his temple.

0:58:54 - Jeff Jarvis
I do not recall that, I don't remember that. How could?

0:58:57 - Speaker 5
you forget I remember that one, I think was it on this show? I don't think it was on this show.

0:59:03 - Leo Laporte
No, it was on this show. Of course it was on this show.

0:59:06 - Jeff Jarvis
So what does this one do, omiai?

0:59:09 - Leo Laporte
and you can. Oh, it won't. Am I doing it wrong? It won't load. Maybe they just went out of business. You know, I'm sure all three of these companies were really trying oh, it's onlyme all three of these companies were trying really hard to get bought by amazon. So in a sense, this is the b victory. Here's the video should have been.

0:59:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh me dot my that I showed you last time have Pavlov.

0:59:36 - Leo Laporte
Ring a bell. You don't remember this guy. Unconditioned stimulus and the women looking at him saying he's cute.

0:59:44 - Jeff Jarvis
You don't remember this. No woman is going to say he's cute. No, in fact, that was your reaction.

0:59:49 - Leo Laporte
They're not saying that. They're saying who is that ass? He's going in. Nicholas Care to elaborate. So it translated. Their french was the ringing of the bell, which made the dog salivate even in the absence of food. He's got a little thing glowing on his head now. They have not shipped that. That's a.

1:00:12 - Jeff Jarvis
You know, this is kind of a story where would you want to wear it on your face?

1:00:18 - Leo Laporte
I don't want to. Nobody wants to wear this on their face.

1:00:20 - Speaker 7
You could have it kind of like right here, like a beauty mark, you know you gotta put a googly eye on it and put in the middle of your forehead it comes right there.

1:00:29 - Leo Laporte
yeah, my third eye, my uh, I have a bad memory, but my third eye is recording everything.

1:00:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Would you mind if I Look into the eye, please, like all of these, it comes with a little necklace. My eye is up here my eye is up here. That's a true title for you. Stop looking at my eyes.

1:00:50 - Leo Laporte
Anyway, this one is. I'm still setting up. It's got to learn my voice and stuff. I'll let you know which one is the best. I've had a number of people say look, I bought the bee. I too was disappointed that they got a purchase by amazon. Oh look, she's wearing it. Wait a minute, she's on a date. She's on a date wearing it and uh, and he's talking to her like she's normal, but watch when she brushes her hair back he also has one now does he also oh are you an?

alien. Are you an alien? So uh, the other thing that's different. B remember was 50 and there was no subscription, which was one of the things that I should have considered a red flag, to be honest, because that's not a sustainable business model, I thought they wanted to get the largest installed base they could.

It's great they were clearly going for the exit yeah although when they were on the show they said, yeah, we're thought we're talking about a subscription plan down the road, but we just want to get started. So both Omi and uh limitless have subscriptions not inexpensive, kind of like the 20 a month chat gpt style subscription. So, um, I will, I will, I will. It's my job to try all these things. It's my poor wife's job to put up with me recording everything.

1:02:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Um, I think you should get a um. They should make a omi or something for your cat, but I guess what I'm thinking of is you should just get a very tiny video camera that you can put on your cat so that I can see what your cat's.

1:02:23 - Leo Laporte
But what if it understood the cat's meow? Because she's very, she has a variety of vocal sounds. She's trying to talk, she goes meow. Does Gizmo do that? Yeah?

1:02:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Every day I'm like Gizmo. That like, yeah, every day I'm like gizmo. If you say, please give me some food, in perfect human english, I will give you as much food as you want.

1:02:42 - Speaker 7
And she still hasn't done it, but I think she's trying, but she doesn't she's trying, she's, it's, she's, she's gonna get there you know, cats don't make those sounds to other cats, only to people I know and I love that, because they know we talk and they're trying to talk.

1:02:55 - Leo Laporte
I'm convinced.

1:02:56 - Jeff Jarvis
Cause they're trying to speak perfect, human, english.

1:02:59 - Leo Laporte
Or something that communicates. We're incredibly stupid and we can't speak what they speak. It's mostly just give me food.

1:03:05 - Speaker 7
Yeah, they're rewiring your brain, cause they sound like babies, and like a baby sound to a human.

1:03:10 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you're too intellectual, benito. They're trying to say give me food, uh, and the other thing I got is this, which looks, to all intents and purposes, just like a samsung galaxy phone. But oh is it. This is the new fold, and I have to say it's pretty nice and it's actually fairly thin.

Right, it's very well, except for the ridiculous camera bump. Oh yeah, it's actually thinner than my pixel, even closed. So here's the iphone. Well, I should take it out of a case because that's not exactly fair, but it's it's. It's it's thin. The other thing that's pretty cool is that the front is virtually the same size as a regular phone. Let me wake it up so you can sort of see it all right.

Yeah, so the so you could use this for all intents and purposes, like it's a phone and and then it's a tablet inside but then it's a bigger secret thing inside, yeah can you do anything on the on the back screen when you unfold it Like?

1:04:17 - Jeff Jarvis
can you have three screens?

1:04:18 - Leo Laporte
Oh I, don't know, like, could this be doing something? Huh, probably not, but I'll check, I'll look into it.

1:04:25 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know what you'd want to do with that, but I think it could be fun.

1:04:28 - Leo Laporte
Limitless. Anyway, I thought I'd show that to you because that's the reason I got it is, apple is rumored to be doing something similar in a year and I wanted to see what the state of the art was from Samsung, because I've had a few of these. This is the seventh Galaxy Fold and I've had the first three or had the first three, so it's gotten much better.

1:04:52 - Speaker 5
Who else in the market has a fold?

1:04:53 - Leo Laporte
Oh everybody, xiaomi, LG, I think, has a fold. Oh everybody, xiaomi um LG, I think, has a fold. There's a there, everybody's.

1:04:59 - Jeff Jarvis
There's even trifolds if you're in China do you think Apple's fold is going to be any different than the folds currently on the market, or is it?

1:05:06 - Leo Laporte
well, that's a good question. Uh have. How much have they learned from uh Samsung's? You know efforts along the way they are getting their screen. It's rumored from Samsung and Samsung is making a new kind of creaseless screen just for Apple.

1:05:20 - Speaker 5
You could see the crease still, I mean but I look at the store and it's better it is better and it and it doesn't feel it feels better than it's not quite.

1:05:28 - Leo Laporte
If you watch if you put.

1:05:29 - Speaker 5
If you put a YouTube video on or something, it's less visible to you yeah, that's right if you have to.

1:05:34 - Leo Laporte
In order for you to see it, I have to kind of tilt it use the folded out screen for I don't know, I just got it like this afternoon, this morning, so you guys have never had a folded.

Oh, I have actually in fact, I'm trading in the flip for this I the idea of this is that you would use this as a regular phone, but if you needed the real estate for instance, you wanted to watch a video and and one of the things folds do, all folding phones do is they could sit in this kind of laptop mode so you could put them on a table and watch something paris.

1:06:03 - Speaker 5
I think it's a third screen for your new desktop oh, now it's your turn to show and tell.

1:06:10 - Leo Laporte
Well, before you do that, let me take another break, and then paris will tell us what she ended up doing with her multi-monitor conundrum. Okay, okay, okay. This show is brought to you by helix sleep, my mattress. When you were here, I didn't get to show you, uh, our bedroom because lisa was taking a nap. You know why she was taking a nap? Because we have the best damn mattress in the world, the helix sleep. And uh, because I wanted you to see it, so you could, you could, try it. But this is, oh, so the.

The rule of thumb is you get a new mattress every six to ten years because they start to sag, they start to lose their resiliency. And it's true, if you just, you know, try a new mattress and compare it to your existing mattress, you'll see what you're missing. And the mattress in your life is so important. I mean, it's not just for sleeping, although that's pretty darn important, but it's also, you know, movie nights with your partner, or morning cuddles with your kitty, cat or dog, eat your wine down ritual. After long days, my personal favorite is to curl up with a good book. In fact, when we got our Helix mattress, they offered also the adjustable bed so I can tilt it up and I can sit. Oh, it's so comfy. Your mattress really is the center of your life from far more than eight hours a day. Maybe you're waking up in a puddle of sweat that's no good or with back pain. That's because it's sagging. Or maybe and this happens to me I wake up sometimes I go was that an earthquake? And no, it was just lisa turning over. If you feel every toss and turn that your partner makes, if it's an earthquake, technical term for that is a classic mattress nightmare. Helix sleep changed everything for us no more night sweats, no back pain, no motion transfer. I am truly getting the deep sleep I love, I crave, I deserve, and we know that that's a big part of health overall is getting a good night's sleep.

What happened is, we saw we said our mattress is eight years old. I think we need a new one. We looked around, we saw reviews like this one a recent buyer, five stars, quote I love my Helix mattress. I will never sleep on anything else. Okay, that's good, but that's just one person's opinion. But I saw many more reviews like that and then I started to see the awards time and time again, helix Sleep is the most awarded mattress brand. For instance, this is just this year alone Wired's Best Mattress 2025. Best mattress of the year. Good Housekeeping Bedding Awards 2025. Premium plus size support. Gq Sleep Awards 2025. Best hybrid mattress. New York Times Wirecutter Awards 2025, featured for plus size. Oprah Daily Sleep Awards 2025, best hotel-like feel. And Leo and Lisa's award for 2025 for the best night's sleep. And we did it up. We got the adjustable, we got the nice Helix with the topper the cool top, by the way, that keeps you cool. It's really nice.

Go to helixsleepcom slash twit 27% off site-wide during their 4th of July sale. Best of web offer extended, yes, till the end of the month, so it's not too late. Late, that's helixsleepcom slash twit for 27 off site wide, and this is exclusively for listeners of intelligent machines. But the offer does end tomorrow, july 31st 2025. So make sure you go there. You get that discount and do enter our show name after checkout. That way we get credit and they know we sent you because that's important to us. Oh, and if you're listening, after july 31st 2025, you got to still go, because they have great deals all the time. Check them out. Helix sleepcom slash twit. Helix h-e-l-i-x sleepcom slash twit. We love our Helix mattress. So does Rosie, by the way. She's on it right now. How many hours a day do cats sleep? Like 16? Most, most, that's the right answer.

1:10:27 - Jeff Jarvis
I think that's the scientific answer Most.

1:10:29 - Leo Laporte
So what did you do? We'll get to the AI news.

1:10:32 - Jeff Jarvis
We will I promise We'll get to AI news, but first we have to talk about my dual monitor setup. I got a lot of very interesting tips and tricks from listeners. Appreciate you all.

1:10:47 - Ian Krietzberg
I ended up going with two, because I wanted to do 24-inch monitors, too small.

1:10:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Listen, I know, but works for me.

1:10:59 - Leo Laporte
I'm currently looking at two Asus ProArt PA248 qv monitors which is very nice.

1:11:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Reports no pro arts are nice. Yeah, um, wire cutter also recommends it. I, I truly spent too many. I do a thing that I've realized I've started to do a lot, which is I spend too many hours researching and worrying myself over the details and then eventually I just like go with. I. Eventually I just went with the thing that the company I work for recommended, which is this monitor and they were well, that makes sense.

1:11:25 - Speaker 5
Are you using it right now?

1:11:27 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm, yes, I'm using it right now. I've got two monitors. You can check out my twitter or blue sky how does my shirt look on that monitor.

1:11:35 - Speaker 5
You need to see your keyboard and trackpad too you do.

1:11:38 - Jeff Jarvis
We also probably need to talk about that. I'll find the links that I. Your shirt looks electric color it should. It should be vivid it's very vivid, but my issue is so part of this was I can't technically. I just posted a link to my a photo of my setup in the discord. Oh, good I can't technically have two monitors with my personal uh computer, because oh look I've never seen it from your point of view.

1:12:02 - Leo Laporte
Yes, look, you've got a needle point on the wall. I do, yeah, did you do that? Or your grandma?

1:12:08 - Jeff Jarvis
someone that I bought, uh it from like a vintage store somebody's grandma, like the head, that's I have to, I have to rearrange all my art, because now it's not in a line like the um monitors are covering up the tiny cat bolo tie and the a booby trap, which is, uh, a pair of plastic, uh things all right, but let's let's zoom in on the on the desktop, because that's what we really care about.

1:12:35 - Leo Laporte
First of all, I love your little red desk.

1:12:38 - Jeff Jarvis
I love my red desk too, I think. I need to get a bigger desk is the thing.

1:12:41 - Speaker 5
I was thinking that when do you put the paper?

1:12:43 - Jeff Jarvis
That's the thing I've got too many papers on my desk right now. Even so, I've got to upgrade to a 60-inch desk.

1:12:51 - Leo Laporte
Let's be honest you cleaned this up before you took the picture.

1:12:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, let's be honest, you cleaned this up before you took the picture.

1:12:59 - Paris Martineau
That much messier right now, but I certainly have some files and stuff out.

1:13:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I have a vintage medical poster next to my desk that said like the biologic reaction, distress To stress, to pain, disease to exhaustion and death. Nice to keep in mind that's very important, but so part of the reason why I did this and had all these questions for folks before is, as I said, my laptop can't natively support two monitors, so I also had to get this working, though I got a good pluggable display link enabled.

Uh dual hdmi thing. I ended up going with the cheap one instead of upgrading my whole dock, because my dock doesn't have a display link, so I just have like that in addition, perfect.

1:13:43 - Leo Laporte
Plugable's good too. They're very good. I have a number.

1:13:45 - Jeff Jarvis
I downloaded display link. It works really well, except for the only thing is I was talking this is what I was complaining about to Jeff and Ian before we started the show. So as part of DisplayLink you get this nifty little thing where you can see both your monitors and adjust settings for it, and I could turn either one of them off with a click of a button. It's just in my browser thing up top and you can also do sliders for brightness and it's kind of like brightness but not Some other brightness-related setting, and it's kind of like brightness but not Some other brightness related setting. However, there's no way for me to automatically set both screens to be the same brightness as one another. There are just like non-numeric sliders that require me to kind of eyeball the brightness and you literally never get it right. So my brightness is all wonky this is not retentive no, it really is not.

That would drive me nuts. I don't like I'm gonna post a photo of it in, uh, the chat, because it's just, it's not like, how am I supposed to know where any of those I mean?

1:14:50 - Leo Laporte
I know they're not should have got one big monitor, but all right I know, but I like having one could be your dark mode monitor and one your light mode. I mean, it looks good. It's a nice setup. Now this keyboard is odd.

1:15:03 - Speaker 5
Tell them about that.

1:15:04 - Leo Laporte
So I'll here, I'll, it's a Mac keyboard, but it's in a plexiglass holder. Is that what it is?

1:15:11 - Jeff Jarvis
So I'm going to send another photo, because people asked me enough about this that I posted a whole thing of it. I put it in the Discord, I think, because I mean I obviously grew up, came of age like using desktops, but I really got into my most prolific computer while using a laptop and I realized I really like the feeling of typing on a MacBook, like I like the way that the butterfly keyboard is set up, or the butterfly, the one that came after, as well as the trackpad, the squishy one and so I was looking, I was like I hate writing on desktop setups, like I hate an external keyboard, and I realized I can buy the Apple magic keyboard and the Apple magic trackpad and pay some gentleman on Etsy to make a custom custom made.

1:15:58 - Speaker 5
This isn't that killer and uh.

1:16:00 - Jeff Jarvis
So then they sit in it perfectly and it feels exactly like I'm typing on a laptop bottom. But I'm not did you?

1:16:07 - Speaker 5
did you give a drawing with, with, with specifications?

1:16:10 - Jeff Jarvis
actually they'd already had one of these made. They just had like two left or something I ordered. I've been using this for like three years, um, but I don't think they make the one that I used anymore. I don't know if they make, so I think you'd have to like get it's. Basically, someone just used a um whatever. It's like a cnc device to like carve it out of acrylic um and yeah, I don't know, it works perfectly for me.

1:16:34 - Leo Laporte
I think you you could sell. This is brilliant. You could have Paris's laptop simulator or something. Turn your desktop into a laptop. Wow, where is your laptop in this setup?

1:16:49 - Jeff Jarvis
So in this setup. My laptop is. I have a bookshelf to the right. I don't know if that's in the photo. Yeah, is I have a bookshelf to the right? I don't know if that's in the photo. Yeah, I've got a bookshelf to the right, and on the bottom rung of it I now have my dock. I've got a big dock as well as my pluggable HDMI port, and then I have a vertical laptop stand, a laptop stand that holds my personal laptop and my work laptop in clamshell mode, closed while plugged into the docks. So it's just off.

1:17:22 - Speaker 5
So can you switch laptops?

1:17:23 - Jeff Jarvis
too well. So that's the thing is. I got into a whole you can see that last week's episode is like 35 comments in the discord episode thing because I got into a very long discussion with a bunch of people about I think it's called a key vm or like an hder and that see, this whole thing was you're getting a preview, because this was going to be my pick of the week or my thing I wanted to talk about, but we're doing it here, which is, if any of you guys have recommendations for what sort of KVM switch or HDMI switcher setup I should go with, I'm all for it because I think I want to try and get something set up so I could.

1:18:03 - Leo Laporte
You have multiple computers.

1:18:04 - Jeff Jarvis
People are telling me I could press a button and all of a sudden the screen I'm looking at would be my work computer and all of my peripherals.

1:18:13 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's right, you have one for work, that's right.

1:18:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Because I have a lot of peripherals that I'd also want to be connected to that, like both my keyboard, but then also the camera I'm using and all the stuff in my dock. And the boys in the comments tell me I can do this, but I'd love more information.

1:18:29 - Speaker 7
It's possible.

1:18:31 - Jeff Jarvis
I know I'm going to have to watch a YouTube video.

1:18:33 - Speaker 7
My question is why didn't you go with one big, two small monitors? Because I hate having that seam down the middle Like I can't stand that. Personally, I can't have the middle of my desktop be a seam between two monitors?

1:18:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Listen, you know I think it's a great question. I haven't noticed the seam that much, but now that you pointed out I guess that is kind of annoying.

Oh, sorry I haven't noticed the seam that much, but now that you pointed out I guess that is kind of annoying. I don't know. I think getting I think 24 inch is the size of monitor I ideally wanted and they don't really make monitors small. So if I was going to do one big and two small, the big would be 24 and the small would be a size they're probably not making.

1:19:13 - Speaker 7
No, they have them, I I. My setup is a 32 and two 13s.

1:19:17 - Jeff Jarvis
Whoa Do you wanna post a photo? Sure. That's interesting. Hmm, I like that everybody. Everybody see. This is why you should join the Discord. Everyone's just posting photos of their monitor layout.

1:19:28 - Speaker 7
But I'm a maniac with my setup so.

1:19:31 - Ian Krietzberg
Well you got all the synthesizers you've got. Yeah, I could have guessed that, darren.

1:19:33 - Jeff Jarvis
Oakley is rocking two vertical monitors. It's pretty cool, isn't it?

1:19:38 - Leo Laporte
This is fun. Everybody put your setup in there. This is good, I love it yeah. There's Joe's Adobe Photoshop setup.

1:19:47 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't think I mind Look at him.

1:19:49 - Leo Laporte
He's kind of going crazy. He can see everything going on in the backyard.

1:19:54 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't think I mind the seam. I think the issue is just that right now, with the small size of my desk, there's like a um drawer on the right side, so I'm slightly my natural position of my desk chair is kind of in front of the left monitor, and I want a bigger desk so that I can position myself somewhat in between the two, so that I can turn my head to the right, do you?

1:20:17 - Leo Laporte
have a blog.

1:20:19 - Jeff Jarvis
No, should I be producing?

1:20:26 - Leo Laporte
No, the only reason. So I have a blog.

1:20:31 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, my god, anthony.

1:20:34 - Leo Laporte
Oh, anthony's got an incredible setup.

1:20:37 - Jeff Jarvis
He just has a lot of windows what is the tiny thing on the left?

1:20:42 - Leo Laporte
uh, it's just a tiny little little sidecar I think that's the discord sidecar. You could show this, uh, or can you show it? Yeah, you could show it. Benita, I don't think anthony's shy, uh, he also. That's a screen in front of his keyboard. That's a touch screen he can use to switch stuff.

1:21:01 - Speaker 7
Yeah, the little one, the little one at the bottom of anthony's that's a little touch screen so he has little sliders there.

1:21:05 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of mad at him because he set up this setup and it's not nearly as nice as his yeah, that is a little messed up and I'm a little, I'm just a little um you know, like dude, how you did that for you, but you didn't do it for me. What's going on, man? What's going on anyway.

1:21:24 - Jeff Jarvis
The thing is I realize that my uh, my weird keyboard situation looks ridiculous, but I do really love no if you like it, it's great. No, I like it, but I agree. Visually it looks dumb in comparison. I love how cute all the really involved mechanical keyboards are. I like when people like Anthony's are kind of all in like a gray scale or something People often do like a gradient of a specific color.

1:21:52 - Leo Laporte
You know what, if you like the Apple Magic Keyboard, go with it. I mean, what am I using here? I'm using a logitech, actually this now, it wouldn't be a good solution for you this, but for me this is a good solution, this logitech keyboard, which feels very much like that apple one um has bluetooth three different computers so you can press the.

You can control three different computers and the same thing. With this logitech mx anywhere mouse are we doing the thumbnail? Okay, this logitech mx anywhere mouse does the same thing. So this can I control three different computers with the same keyboard and a mouse. But but you also want the same. You want the monitors to switch.

1:22:40 - Jeff Jarvis
That's what a KVM does for you, yeah, but then also the thing is like I think because my work computer doesn't need the display link things, I can figure out how to like you just need another monitor.

1:22:51 - Leo Laporte
You should have three monitors.

1:22:53 - Jeff Jarvis
I can't have three monitors Two, I just have come around to the idea of being a two monitor person. I can't leap to three. I do like the idea of a little tiny monitor, though.

1:23:04 - Speaker 5
Maybe that, maybe I can just use my iPad as a sidecar Like that doesn't count, I don't know, paris says, those portable ones you get with your laptop, that you can take with your laptop like those ones that freaks use in coffee shops.

1:23:16 - Jeff Jarvis
When you like, walk into a coffee shop and someone has basically a whole desktop set up going on there. No offense to anybody if you're one of those freaks I just saw a guy who has his framework laptop.

1:23:27 - Leo Laporte
I'm not if I can find the picture that it's just he took it all apart, so it's just the parts and he's got it all. He's got the most elaborate. It looks like the Statue of Liberty or something. It's just crazy. I'll find it on Reddit. But yeah, this is fun to look at what people's setups are.

1:23:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Almost everybody noticed, by the way, trust no one Setup is incredible.

1:23:48 - Leo Laporte
Almost all of these people, as you might notice, have multiple monitors right. So you're just getting into the beginnings.

1:23:58 - Jeff Jarvis
I really am. Yeah, but you're young, you've got plenty of time. I've got, I've got time to collect monitors. Well, now I've got another one sitting on my couch, so, but I think it'd be weird to have one monitor that's a different type of monitor than the other two I'm looking at let's see how many monitors I have.

1:24:10 - Leo Laporte
Well, do you include the?

1:24:11 - Jeff Jarvis
phone, like so many monitors that I, when I saw you show this, so I got one, two, three, four, I can't even count also paris.

1:24:22 - Speaker 7
If you have an ipad, you can use that as a monitor, okay yes you can?

1:24:28 - Speaker 5
yeah, that could be your little one.

1:24:29 - Speaker 7
Yeah, we wouldn't it could be the one where you put this right there, or?

1:24:33 - Leo Laporte
something you know my, uh, my setup is not as clean as other people's. I love your little red desk.

1:24:40 - Jeff Jarvis
I think that's adorable and it's like I can't, I'm going to get a big one.

1:24:44 - Leo Laporte
Save that. That can be your child's desk when you have a kid.

1:24:48 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, you know all of the space I have to retain furniture in my New York City apartment. I'll put the desk in there.

1:24:55 - Leo Laporte
Put it in the. Don't you have a basement like with yeah, with chicken wire around it, that you can put stuff down there?

1:25:01 - Speaker 5
scooter x put up his obviously his dream yeah, this is a nice setup.

1:25:05 - Leo Laporte
I like this. Uh, I don't think this is scooter x?

1:25:09 - Speaker 7
no, I don't think so this looks like a uh youtube uh switch back to your uh oh, I have to switch it back yeah, that looks like an influencer of some of some kind.

1:25:19 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you know, there is a diminishing returns. To be honest, I still think a single large monitor is a good way to go. But obviously.

1:25:31 - Speaker 5
I think this is very good too yeah, wait, jeff, post your setup.

1:25:35 - Jeff Jarvis
What have you got going on, oh, jeff, jeff, jeff, jeff.

1:25:42 - Leo Laporte
This is our old uh. Is this our old studio, patrick? Yeah, this is our old uh. This is the. This is the tds tds desk, the technical director's desk in the studio wow, I like all the little tiny screens below the bigs, yeah that's because that's the switcher, so you have to see what all the different inputs are. So you know, what you're switching to anyway.

Do you want to talk about ai? I mean, I could talk about screens of different sizes. I am going to say one thing I do advocate for, and I strongly encourage you to have a blog, because everybody has to have their headquarters on the internet. Jeff's is buzz machine, mine is leofm, because you can't be sure that your blue sky or whatever, will live forever. So you have one spot that everything goes to. Jeff syndicates it out to medium when I post, it goes to blue sky, linkedin, uh, instagram, pixel fed master and it goes to a bunch of places. That's because I use and I would recommend this, by the way micro blog, micro dot blog five bucks a month, um. But one of the buttons I have on the top of my screen is important. I think everybody should have this. So you know everybody, everybody has the about. I have an. I use this button, which because people sometimes want to know well, what do you, what microphone do you use, what lights do you use? So my setup is completely documented and updated pretty regularly On the.

I use this page. That's my see. I didn't clean it up before I took a picture of my desktop. Anyway, I like, I think people should do that, and I think people should have a blog. The other page that I'm a fan of is the now page. Like what are you doing right now? This is another kind of web-based concept. Current location Come on, leo. Yeah, that's my current location. It's not super specific, it's only to go about 15 decimal places.

No, that's not my house, it's just Petaluma, it's downtown Petaluma.

1:27:48 - Speaker 5
I put my picture up on the chat oh good, let's see Jeff's setup.

1:27:52 - Leo Laporte
We finally get where to see it?

1:27:55 - Speaker 5
Where is it In the Discord? I put it in there. Did I not hit return? Did you Hold on? I didn't hit return yet.

1:28:03 - Jeff Jarvis
It thinks it's there. Graham, when you post on the internet, you got to make sure you click the button.

1:28:06 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's a nice setup. That's very pretty. No, that's not his. Wait a minute.

1:28:10 - Jeff Jarvis
No, I can't believe. You're out there looking.

1:28:12 - Leo Laporte
I like all the greenery.

1:28:14 - Jeff Jarvis
You're looking outside, yes, Isn't that nice.

1:28:17 - Leo Laporte
This is why you're pink. Yes, there's windows in front of you. Oh yeah, it goes up through. Jeff, this is a great desk. Oh my gosh.

1:28:26 - Jeff Jarvis
And you've got an old computer, you've got an old TV screen. For some reason I always imagined you having a CR TV, always imagined you having a cr tv like a, like a cr.

1:28:41 - Leo Laporte
Like a like a, like an old box. Cathode ray tubes yeah, oh, and I like the clock. I like the analog clock. I haven't seen one of those in a while, yeah wait, I've got an analog clock.

1:28:47 - Jeff Jarvis
In a sense I've got a flip clock oh, a flip clock. Yeah, no, that's digital yet well, it's, it's, it's physical, it's not digital, but all right, come on in the sense, okay, ai time uh, let's see, ai time we talked about what we talked a little bit about.

1:29:12 - Leo Laporte
We talked about mark zuckerberg's uh manifesto. I honestly think, well, it's interesting. The only thing if it were anybody but mark, I would say, well, that's exciting because here's somebody's putting so much money, you know, kind of completely speculatively, into making us a super intelligence it's an optimistic view.

1:29:36 - Speaker 5
You're going to have your own assistant to make life better versus sam altman is it's going to kill you?

1:29:41 - Leo Laporte
yeah, you know, he says, over the past few months, we've seen glimpses of our ai systems improving themselves, which is an interesting way to put it. The improvement is slow for now, but undeniable. Developing super intelligence is now in sight. My only issue is and I, maybe I, maybe you, maybe you know better, you know mark better than I do, maybe I I should give him more credit is I don't know if I want these billionaires to be controlling this thing. That should be a utility. It's just like you know billionaire shouldn't control twitter. Um, but do you trust mark to to make something that is altruistic and for the good of humankind?

1:30:24 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't trust anyone to do anything no, that's because you're a dialest.

1:30:28 - Leo Laporte
I trust him more than sam altman yeah, I think he's kind of on the same trust google more than meta.

1:30:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Why do you trust him more than Sam Altman, and how?

1:30:40 - Speaker 5
One word Paris. Guess what it is, guess what it is, tuscany Drink.

1:30:50 - Leo Laporte
So who's the Tuscany? Oh, Sam's the Tuscany, yeah.

1:30:52 - Speaker 5
I mean he's in that Doomer Teal world. Right, mark is not Mark's the test. Yeah, I mean he's. He's in that Doomer teal world right.

1:30:57 - Leo Laporte
Mark is not Mark's very positive. He says in some ways this will be a new era for humanity. Ai will improve our existing systems, enable the creation and discovery of new things that aren't imaginable today. As recently as 200 years ago, 90% of people were farmers growing food to survive.

1:31:15 - Speaker 5
It's even worse than that, right 200 years ago, 90% of people were farmers growing food to survive. It's even worse than that.

1:31:18 - Leo Laporte
That's not right, I don't think. Well, here's an interesting. I'm reading a very good book about the Civil War because I'm going to be going down, I'm going to travel the Mississippi soon, Mark Twain, Mark Twain, going up in the riverboat. One of the things he points out prior to the Civil War, in the 1830s, it cost more to ship a product 30 miles inland than it did to ship it across the Atlantic. So colonial and later Americans would buy stuff from Europe much more readily than from their neighbor 30 miles down the road If you lived on the coast.

Yeah, there weren't any roads. Yeah, if you lived on the coast, yeah, there weren't any roads. Yeah, if you lived inland, you were out of luck completely. So almost everybody who didn't live in a port grew their own food, ate their own food, made their own clothes, made their own candles, made everything. Because, you know, maybe there was an artisan down the road who would help you make your plow shares and your and your sickles, but this wasn't. It wasn't easy to to move stuff around in this country. Um, so I don't. 200 years ago, what is that?

1:32:24 - Speaker 5
18, uh, 25 I tried to look it up and I don't 18. I think he's accurate.

1:32:29 - Leo Laporte
It was I think he's accurate. This is this guy, this book I'm reading, which is very good, by the way, um, I can't remember the name, but, uh, the path to liberty. No, uh, anyway, I'll find the name. But he says 1830, 200 years ago, everybody was growing their own stuff and making their own stuff. Because it was so expensive to transport it, because we didn't even have mackinac roads, we had rutted dirt roads. Yes, uh, so the cost, and and we didn't have railroads yet no, we had railroads, we had.

Well, we had railroads, didn't have them go anywhere, you know, yeah, we're just beginning railroads yeah, we had just started the extermination of natives in the west, so yeah, the transcontinental railroad was transformational, in fact.

What was weird? Did you see this union pacific just merged with another railroad to become to form a new transcontinental railroad. We haven't had one in years. They were all individual. You'd have to trans, trans, ship individual trains. Okay, you're on union pacific until chicago, but then you have to go on illinois central, then you have to. I mean, it was crazy anyway, for free, I free, I love railroads. I do too.

1:33:38 - Jeff Jarvis
It was delightful being in the Pacific Northwest because I was like, wow, there's so many trains transporting I was going to say so many things, but mostly wood. There's so many trains transporting Mostly logs, yeah, a lot of logs, but it was so nice to see a lot of logs.

1:33:57 - Leo Laporte
He. He said uh, I'm extremely optimistic that super intelligence will help humanity accelerate our pace of progress, not dig our own graves. I hope not as profound as the abundance produced by a I may one day be an even more meaningful impact on our lives will likely come from everyone having a personal, a personal super intelligence that helps you achieve your goals. I think this is really an interesting point of view, the idea that you will have a little buddy, that, and we're kind of close to that, aren't we?

1:34:23 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, that's well I mean I guess we're close in comparison to like 50 years ago or 200 years ago, but I don't think that yeah, or 10 years.

1:34:33 - Leo Laporte
I mean we're close comparatively, but I don't think that the current paris, when I was your age are very close to that when I was your age, if we were having a debate about who was the greatest hitter of the 1920s, I had to go to the library.

Well, but that's the internet that's not ai but no, I'm pointing out we are in a continuum of information availability that AI accelerates even farther and that's huge. I'm doing research now about medical conditions. I give AI I just did this the other day all my supplements and medications and said tell me if there's any interactions I should know about. My doctor only has 20 minutes for me. This is pretty typical in the United States. Doctors have about 20 minutes a patient. He doesn't have time for me to say well, here's the supplements I'm taking. Can you tell me if there's anything I should worry about? Is there anything I should be doing? What should I take with meals? What shouldn't I? Is there any chance you've been doing? What should I take with meals? What shouldn't I? All of that stuff, ai has the time and I checked it.

I did it, by the way. I did it in perplexity, chat, gbt and anthropic and cross-referenced them. I did a model of experts by hand and actually they found it. They said okay, you have too much vitamin D, you're risking the magnesium and do not take that much chromium and B12. And it was accurate. I checked it. Of course I didn't. I'm not going to act on just an AI saying to do this, but that was hugely valuable and I was able to query it in a way that you couldn't query in a library book. You couldn't really even query Google. It's able to synthesize information. You could have asked your pharmacist.

1:36:14 - Speaker 5
It's able to synthesize information you could have asked your pharmacist.

1:36:16 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, have you asked a pharmacist lately? Yeah, so when I got, prescribed. When I got prescribed Ozempic, this is a really good example. There is a lot of stuff you should know. Nobody the doctor didn't have time to tell me. The pharmacist showed me how to inject it. I said you know, I don't usually talk to the pharmacist, but I did as this time. I said you know I don't usually talk to the pharmacist, but I did as this time. I said I need to know how to.

1:36:39 - Jeff Jarvis
She showed me. She didn't tell me any of the important stuff. Did you go to a big box pharmacy or a small local pharmacy? No, kaiser my HMO. But I mean, is that a pharmacy?

1:36:47 - Leo Laporte
They have a pharmacy as well. One of the nice things about HMOs is it's all in one labs, pharmacies, x-rays, everything I don't, obviously I don't know the kaiser experience, but I've.

1:36:56 - Jeff Jarvis
I have found, um, I take a couple different medications and I've in I'd previously gone to capsule, which is like a startup delivery service, or gone to big box stores or whatever works best for my insurance, and I found that going to a local pharmacy has really changed the game for me because I know my pharmacist, like I can call him and ask him stuff about the supply chain for my medication or like ask him like involved questions about how certain medications Well, I think you're fortunate, but I think I don't think that's the universal experience at all.

Yeah, I have heard from people in a wide variety of cities that like local, that is what local pharmacy tests offer. Uh, that a large chain often does not.

1:37:40 - Speaker 5
My local- pharmacist who I like would like to use. For example, we went to her to get our um covet shots and she said, well, she did it to be nice to people, but uh, she wasn't paid the way the big rocks was. Yeah, uh, and, and somebody's saying a doctor should have.

1:37:54 - Leo Laporte
You should have more than 20's saying a doctor should have. You should have more than 20 minutes with a doctor, of course you should I'm not saying that you shouldn't have all this. I'm just saying because in this, at least in the united states, we don't in many cases and uh, but we do have access to information in a new way. That I think is very powerful so.

1:38:13 - Speaker 5
So zuckerberg says the thing I argue with is the super intelligence BS To the idea that you build something that, again, you've got to have trust in it, because privacy issues galore. But do you trust something? But this is what Comet is trying to do, this is what Google is trying to do. This is what they're all trying to do is to have the context of you and your life. It's what your devices are trying to do, so that you can then ask it a question, and it has that context. That level of personal service is appealing, but there's gonna be lots of moral panic about it.

1:38:47 - Leo Laporte
Do you think Amazon Medical One? Oh?

1:38:52 - Speaker 5
no, I'm turning into sand. We haven't seen that in a while. Paris was on medical one for a while. Right, dr dave, it's one medical.

1:39:04 - Jeff Jarvis
I still am, I literally mine, today amazon bought it. I haven't switched mine over. I was just trying to decide today whether I should switch mine to connect with my Amazon account, because they give you like a hundred dollar discount or something.

1:39:18 - Speaker 5
But you lost Dr Doug right.

1:39:21 - Jeff Jarvis
My longtime doctor, dr Dan, I lost, not because it was purchased by Amazon, but because he moved to DC. But I have a new primary care doctor and I get along with her quite well. I mean I've really enjoyed one medical though I do. I will say every time I go in I mean this is just typically what happens with me. Whenever I like interact with the primary care doctor like knows me, because they know I'm a journalist that used to cover Amazon I always like ask like how things are going, and they're like and I will say, as of late, some people who I interact with in my visits have been like as of late, some people who I interact with in my visits have been like, yeah, we have a lot more patients to see, or yeah, they're I think part of one thing, that a person mentioned recently is.

So one of the things I like about One Medical is that if you're a member you can at any point basically open your phone, do a live video chat with a doctor or nurse practitioner.

It doesn't like I'm not getting billed for insurance by it, like you just get to like ask somebody some questions and they're usually available like instantly. They are now opening that network up to any Yahoo with an internet connection that wants to play like a flat rate to basically do a virtual urgent care. But at least what this one these two people I spoke to at the one medical facility I went to a couple months ago said they're like, yeah, it feels like they're not increasing the staff at all, like it's still just the same one medical employees and doctors and nps that work in the facilities that are also manning this in their off hours, which I think is just kind of emblematic of what often happens when a large tech company buys what used to be kind of a bespoke niche product is. They're going to try and get that sort of mass scale and there might be downstream effects from that. I haven't noticed anything personally in terms of quality yet, but I'm keeping an eye out for it certainly. Yeah.

1:41:18 - Leo Laporte
Anyway, it's good we have AI, because our medical system's falling to pieces. That's not a good reason and they're all going to be. You know, I mean, look, I'm not immune, despite all the sand in my shoes, to all of the negative outcomes that AI is going to create, uh, including job loss, dramatic job loss, and we're fortunate because we can afford to use these things. Uh, I think there are a lot of people who will not have, will not be able to afford food soon enough, let alone you know, 20 a month for an a.

1:41:48 - Speaker 5
The risk is we're going to have more, uh, walled gardens. Amazon is cutting off Google from scraping it, and so you go to Google and ask for a price. You won't get Amazon prices. You'll have to go to Amazon to get Amazon prices right, yeah, that kind of stuff, and that's going to be the game. That goes on. It's back to AOL land.

1:42:13 - Leo Laporte
All right, let's move on.

1:42:19 - Speaker 5
I want some positive. I want some positive, you positive. I want some positive. You want a fun story you want a fun story?

1:42:21 - Leo Laporte
yeah, line 98, line 98. I always loved line 98, one of my favorite lines it's a good line empirical evidence of large language models influence this one. Yeah, on on humans.

1:42:33 - Speaker 5
See my joke by joke in the line. Read the line first.

1:42:37 - Leo Laporte
Now read the line in the in the rundown in the rundown it says you might want to delve. Yeah, I got it delve into this paper. I want to. By the way, there's a new ai company called delve. Delve. I want to underscore. That's a joke. You'll comprehend only with the malicious, meticulous reading of it. Uh, do you mean underscore? Did you mean m dash?

1:42:59 - Speaker 5
that's. That's bs m dashes are fine. So, uh, this is a study that that looked at language in many podcasts and academic youtubes. No, or, and after chat gpt to find the impact of ChatGPT on language. Oh and so there's a series of words here. Delve comprehend. Our favorite is delve underscore. Comprehend bolster boast. Swift inquiry, meticulous pinpoint surpass craft, intricate, heightened, lessen discern necessitate, showcased amidst escalate and intricacy.

1:43:32 - Leo Laporte
You know what this really is. It's kind of business speak, isn't well?

1:43:35 - Speaker 5
there's also journal words. Underscore is a beloved, a word beloved of the New York.

1:43:40 - Leo Laporte
Times. Yeah, like it really underscoring their desire to make the world a better place showcase uh escalate.

1:43:47 - Speaker 5
Those are journal words lots so that's why it's trained on journalism. It's true, yeah, it makes sense, but my theory is that journalism has less impact on the language than chachi pt does but chachi pd is not making it up at a whole cloth.

1:44:04 - Leo Laporte
No no, I know that somewhere.

1:44:05 - Speaker 5
But this is finding that there's been a market increase in these even journalistic words after chachi pt.

1:44:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Interesting boast is such a journalistic word. I'm always using the word boast.

1:44:19 - Speaker 7
Well, it's like it's the same thing, though, right, because the journalists are the ones who fed ChatGPT and now ChatGPT is feeding culture.

1:44:25 - Speaker 5
It's the same thing. This is Matthew Kirschenbaum's textpocalypse it just feeds on its entrails.

1:44:31 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I mean, the same thing probably would have happened to any way, Cause YouTubers read the newspapers and they they want to sound more professional, so they end up.

1:44:39 - Speaker 7
Who thinks YouTubers read newspapers? This is also how we lose words, by the way they don't read newspapers.

1:44:44 - Leo Laporte
Not newspapers. You know what I mean, journos, what do they call them Anyway?

1:44:49 - Speaker 7
this is how we lose words like bloggers, you know people over using words and then they suddenly become meaningless.

1:44:54 - Leo Laporte
Meaning well so let's be honest. The reason you use the word boast is because it's a. It's a uh we're talking about. Uh, you know um, what do you call it?

1:45:04 - Jeff Jarvis
you know the I can't remember the word ask, ask chat gpt for the word you're looking for.

1:45:11 - Leo Laporte
It's right uh you know when you go to the uh, not bartlett's uh, when you go to the thesaurus thesaurus, that's the word you need a thesaurus word because you didn't. You already said show. Have you want to give it another way? So you say boast. Right, that's really where these come from. They're just trying to vary your speech so you don't use the same word twice in this paragraph that's why, right, yeah, that's why all these words exist.

1:45:39 - Jeff Jarvis
It's not from even at this right. It's just you're trying to, you're looking at, you're like I can't have show three times in a paragraph.

1:45:44 - Speaker 5
They're euphemisms, almost they're they're, oh no, not euphemisms so they studied 360 000 youtube videos of academic talks and 771 000 podcast episodes.

1:45:59 - Leo Laporte
So I wonder they do that with ai? Did they do that with ai? Of course they did, okay okay 7.35 billion transcribed words?

1:46:14 - Speaker 5
no, they had.

1:46:15 - Leo Laporte
They had uh graduate assistants typing on them yeah, you know, it's a word that podcasters have brought into the world. That I hate is pod, where they say listen to our pod. Yes, like the show is a pod, don't call it a pod.

1:46:30 - Speaker 5
I can't stand that people say that a blog is the post yes, the the blog is the whole thing.

1:46:35 - Leo Laporte
I wrote a blog. No, you wrote a post on your blog. Yes, you didn't write a blog Right, yeah, but see, that's not AI doing that, that's humans doing that, that's what I was saying earlier.

1:46:46 - Speaker 7
That's how we lose words. That's how we lose words, that's how we gain them too.

1:46:51 - Leo Laporte
I, after reading John McWhorter which you turned me on to and I love he's really he's the kind of linguist who is a little bit more lackadaisical saying this is how language evolves Language evolves, it doesn't sit still.

1:47:03 - Jeff Jarvis
I do think that there is a context for using blog to mean post. That can work Like if you were talking about Contrarianian. Watch out, if you're talking about, let's say, your uh, both of your guys's blogs that you just described, that I'm now forgetting the name of those are blogs, very simple, so there are posts on them but if you're talking about, for instance, that's how you took our, our advice to you is it's already, it's gone my, my brain retains concepts. It does not retain proper nouns. This has always been a problem.

Okay, let's get down and there's none.

1:47:37 - Leo Laporte
I couldn't remember this or us about a three seconds, but so I think you've heard those.

1:47:42 - Jeff Jarvis
Those are posts on a blog, but something like like a news website that contains more than like blogging style posts. You can have a blog, someone can do a blog on business insider, and describing it as a blog differentiates blog as a connection?

1:48:02 - Leo Laporte
no, no, but blog is a. Blog is the collective noun for a bunch of posts it is not, it's like saying paris, I, I wrote a magazine.

1:48:12 - Speaker 5
No, you wrote an article in a magazine I don't know.

1:48:16 - Jeff Jarvis
I think I have to disagree.

1:48:17 - Ian Krietzberg
I think I think I'm on the other side of the divide from you.

1:48:20 - Jeff Jarvis
It's like saying you see that murder over there.

1:48:23 - Leo Laporte
No, that's one crow. If there were a bunch of them it would be murder, but it is just a single crow. You know what I'm saying? It's not don't use the collective for the singular, for the individual. Yes, I think we as a society have moved beyond the understanding of saying it's not.

1:48:35 - Speaker 5
Don't use the collective for the singular, for the individual.

1:48:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I think media as a society moved beyond the understanding of blog. It's like it's like media. It's like, yeah, it's exactly like it's a generational? I don't know that it is plural. The media can be yeah, it's not plural anymore, jeff it's not plural anymore in the way that blog isn't plural anymore my problem is I write about mass media.

1:48:57 - Speaker 5
It doesn't really make sense to make that plural. But media to me is plural.

1:49:01 - Leo Laporte
You don't want to call it the mass medium.

1:49:03 - Speaker 5
That would make no sense.

1:49:04 - Jeff Jarvis
No, the mass medium is the message. Are we excited about chat?

1:49:10 - Leo Laporte
GPT 5.0?

1:49:11 - Ian Krietzberg
It's coming out any day now. Do you think it's going to be be?

1:49:15 - Leo Laporte
is it going to be all that?

1:49:17 - Speaker 5
it's agi, I know it is. It's going to kill us all. It's what I said last week they'll leapfrog each other. It'll be. It'll be more interesting, it'll do more stuff, it'll pass more tests google's quarterly results 96.22 billion in three months.

1:49:35 - Leo Laporte
$28 billion profit. I don't know how does that compare to previous.

1:49:40 - Jeff Jarvis
How does that compare to the last quarter?

1:49:42 - Leo Laporte
I have to ask AI, I don't know. Look, they're doing well, let's put it that way they're doing better than Microsoft. We'll get Apple's results tomorrow, but I have a feeling they're probably not too far off from Apple.

1:49:58 - Speaker 5
Stocks almost under 200 bucks a share.

1:50:00 - Leo Laporte
And it's because you know why. Because their ad revenue is through the roof, because they dominate the business. They have a monopoly Between Meta and Google. It's 90% of all digital ad sales go to Meta and Google, not us. I wasn't talking to you, google, stop listening. You can listen. It's also because Everybody else can listen to them, but not Google I mean search.

1:50:26 - Jeff Jarvis
Now I believe there are some search statistics that the majority, like a significant percentage of Google, searches, people just get now their information from looking at the AI summary. Don't ever click through to the source link, much less any links below in the search results.

1:50:45 - Speaker 5
Line 151 gives you the numbers.

1:50:49 - Leo Laporte
Google has a message for you, by the way.

1:50:52 - Paris Martineau
Pramed by Google. I do not have the ability to listen to your conversations. I'm a large language model trained by Google. I do not have the ability to listen to your conversations.

1:51:06 - Leo Laporte
I don't know why she ends on an up like that. Maybe she's young. She's young, she's a millennial.

1:51:11 - Speaker 5
So almost 50%.

1:51:13 - Leo Laporte
Why did she say that? How would she know if she wasn't listening? Yeah, you lie. Okay, I am a large language model. I don't listen to you. Well then, how do you know I was talking to you?

1:51:32 - Speaker 5
When AI overviews are present, publishers witness a drop of 47.5% in click-through rate on desktop and 37.7% on mobile, which is to say, people are getting the information they want.

1:51:44 - Leo Laporte
Well, it's good for us, it's good for the users, but it's very bad for the people who create the content that we want the idea of content as an industry is over, it's gone. Yeah, we're at Google. Zero is what they call it now, which is that, as a publication, you can expect zero traffic from Google.

1:52:02 - Speaker 5
Google told the Guardian that the study was inaccurate and based on flawed assumptions, which I'm sure is true too.

1:52:06 - Leo Laporte
Maybe, but it's obvious to everyone that this is the transition that's happening right now. The Wall Street Journal it was pretty funny. They had a graph in which they showed we're talking about Google Zero and they had a graph that they showed that business insiders traffic had declined dramatically. But what they didn't mention is because they have a paywall that you cannot get through, that you can't read their articles unless you give them a lot of money.

1:52:35 - Speaker 5
It wasn't ai or the kill because they used to be the whole thing about business insider. What used to be that they, they, they did to everybody else.

1:52:45 - Jeff Jarvis
What they now complain is being done to them by ai right, it was pretty ironic organic search traffic to business insiders websites declined by 55 percent between April 2022 and April 2025.

1:52:58 - Speaker 5
But is this search traffic? I don't click on it anymore because there's no point.

1:53:01 - Leo Laporte
Every time I click on it, I see the paywall. I go, well, I can't. No so this is news. News sites are getting crushed by Google's new AI tools, says the Wall Street Journal, and here's the graph.

1:53:12 - Speaker 5
Anti technology.

1:53:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, wall Street Journal tools says the wall street journal and here's the graph anti-technology, anti-wall street journal, business insider washington post. Uh, again, traffic might be down it's going to the dumper for other reasons.

1:53:22 - Speaker 5
Another story yes, interesting.

1:53:24 - Leo Laporte
The journal, which does have a paywall, but not as draconian, is doing okay and the huffington post is going down. But who reads the huffington post?

1:53:33 - Jeff Jarvis
I know the only journalism producing part of buzzfeed now left is it?

1:53:39 - Leo Laporte
oh, are we getting the peretti on at some point?

1:53:42 - Jeff Jarvis
it's a great question I thought we were trying to list.

1:53:46 - Leo Laporte
Oh, he's on the list. It doesn't mean anything. We're trying to get jonah peretti for uh, for everybody, so, but that is a big slot in logic too, and he said yes, and then then ghosted us.

1:53:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah henry, you'll have a good opinion on blog singular or blog plural blog shit might be his opinion journalists you two are journalists news sites.

1:54:14 - Leo Laporte
Are they getting crushed by google's new ai tools? Is that a fair headline?

1:54:20 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean google's ai tools, I feel like, are the latest uh nail in the coffin. I think that changes to seo, as well as just changes to the ways that sites are getting traffic, has decimated news sites. It's a death by a thousand cuts.

This is the reason why every news site is now leaning in so hard to newsletters, because it's a way to try and get around these indirect relationships with your audience and instead try to have, like a direct uh, yeah, a direct relationship with a subscriber to a product that you can very easily so I've got a question.

So paris, I subscribed a bunch of newsletters and then I find that I just stopped reading them all I would say I I don't read many of the newsletters I subscribe to, but I subscribe to a lot me too.

1:55:13 - Leo Laporte
They all go into a folder where I can ignore them easily.

1:55:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I mean, this is something I still read sites I have an.

1:55:22 - Leo Laporte
RSS reader and every day, twice or three times a day, I go to my RSS reader and scan for stories for this show and all the other shows and I read, and I go to the sites and I read the stories and I wear these glasses. You know why I wear these glasses? Because mark zuckerberg says people without ai glasses will be at a disadvantage in the future big surprise people who have money will have an advantage over people who don't people who wear the glasses I make and sell at great expense will have an advantage.

Actually, are there's going to be a new set of these coming soon, right?

1:55:57 - Speaker 5
well, well, there's a luxottica. No, the watch mccall's are out now. The the um the oakley's the oakley's. Thank you, yeah, they're they're more expensive.

1:56:05 - Leo Laporte
I don't know if they're better 500 bucks, yeah, I'm looking for what jason.

1:56:10 - Speaker 5
Jason got them, he talked about them today okay and um they probably look better than these. They look. I don't think you and I at our age can pull off the Oakleys. I think Jason can, but I don't think, if you go to AI?

1:56:24 - Leo Laporte
Inside you'll see, Are they like?

1:56:25 - Speaker 5
Oakley wraparounds. If you go to AI Inside, you'll see, they're the shiny ones, right. Yeah, yeah, you'll see, they're all white. He said the quality of the video. He wanted it when he was doing product stuff to just show and the quality of the video wasn't that good, oh, I would wear those.

1:56:42 - Leo Laporte
You know who they're copying Casey Neistat, oh yeah.

1:56:49 - Jeff Jarvis
How so or I?

1:56:50 - Leo Laporte
guess he has those white glasses, although his are painted white and the paint's coming off, which is even better. I mean, it's a style, it's a thing, it's a look, it's a statement. I look they have black ones that look just as nerdy. Yeah, so. So Jason got the white ones. Yeah, I'm waiting for a improved product. I don't. I don't care about it being a style maker product?

1:57:18 - Speaker 5
I don't. I don't care about it being a style maker. Um, the question is so. So do I want visual cues as well, not just audio heads.

1:57:21 - Leo Laporte
You mean heads up, yeah, yeah, the heads up ones, and I've tried a few, as you know. Uh, I don't. I don't think they're quite there yet, but google bought leap I mean, I think, uh, because of the way they display it. You know what you I feel like. What I want is a I can look at the world. I see the world and superimposed on it without kind of it being a little mail slot or anything but superimposed on it is information.

1:57:48 - Speaker 7
And it's not that way. Yet you know, on your inventory it looks like it's supposed to look like a game. Right, that's what you want.

1:57:55 - Leo Laporte
It's like a game HUD.

1:57:57 - Speaker 5
It's what it is. It's a game hud, exactly. You have a heads-up display in the car. Yes, and I love it. So is it. Is it? Is it analogous to that?

1:58:03 - Leo Laporte
yeah, actually, it is in fact some cars now I don't have it, but some cars, uh, will use the heads-up display to show where, uh, your car is going, based on the steering, so they'll show the road. It'll be like a video game where they show the road and the road you kind of should just drive, I drive, but you know what it has. It's really important. It has a speed, okay, so I have to look down and see the speedometer and then it sees stop signs and red lights and yield signs and it sees traffic signs. So it displays in the heads up display the stop sign before I see it in my peripheral vision, which is actually, I think, a really good feature I was kind of amazed when you drove me around petaluma.

1:58:43 - Jeff Jarvis
I think your car backed up out of the driveway by itself, right?

1:58:48 - Leo Laporte
no, I was driving, it offered to you. You saw the display that said I can, I can take it from here if you want, but I don't trust it. Uh, so jan lacoon, tell me what he says. He says he's not out in the in the siberia of uh meta. He is still involved right, even though he's working on.

1:59:09 - Speaker 5
He's working on the future stuff and he has said, uh, that um llms won't get us to where mark wants to go. Yeah, next paradigm, he's. He's very big on believing that next goal, which we've talked about, the show is, uh, reality checks, understanding reality, and that that's going to be what matters and, as you said, robotics are a key feeder of that. So he's looking for the next Paradigm in the next Paradigm.

1:59:38 - Leo Laporte
I would hate to make any blanket statements at this point, because llms have done so much more than one would thought. I mean I, I called him spicy auto correct but just logically, as what?

1:59:49 - Speaker 5
what Jan lacoon says is that that we're gonna. They're not as smart as a house cat.

1:59:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I know, he says that.

1:59:57 - Speaker 5
I think Gizmo is much smarter than ChatGPT, Don't you Paris?

2:00:01 - Jeff Jarvis
I think Gizmo is much smarter but significantly less likely to follow any instruction or be sycophantic towards it, Wait.

2:00:10 - Speaker 7
So, Leah, you think that transformer technology that's enough. That's enough to get super intelligence? That's already it.

2:00:16 - Leo Laporte
I don't know. Good question, I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out because it's already done so much more than one would have thought it also has a silicon chip. Yeah, but okay. So on the face of it, what a transformer looks like is a prediction machine. You give it a token, it predicts the next token, and the next token, the next token. It's hard for me to go from that fact to what they're doing now, which seems to be somehow generative.

And so the real question that's in my mind, and maybe it's a little hocus pocus, but is there some generative magic that's happening in this predictive model that we didn't really anticipate? So I'm just saying I'm not willing to rule out how far LLMs can go Now. I'm not Jan McCune.

2:01:06 - Speaker 5
Well, here's the other one I would go to. I would call on Jensen Wong. I think that the appropriate use of that predictive ability is the digital twin. Appropriate use of that predictive ability is the digital twin. Is that, whether you're a factory or a warehouse, or a car or potentially us in life, here are the next things that could happen.

2:01:23 - Leo Laporte
Well, get ready for this good use of that because one of the tools that these companies are using is vo3 and other video generators like runway, to generate content to train about the physical world, to train llms to understand the physical world. So in effect, they're being trained on transformer created content about the physical world. Well, I think you could eliminate that middleman. Then you're, you're, you're saying okay, here I'm going to give a prompt to a video generator that's going to physically do the physical world and then I'm going to train my llm on it. Eliminate the middleman. The vo is not doing anything to the llm, is not? It's the same, it's still transformers all the way down.

2:02:09 - Speaker 5
Well, it's challenges. This is what jensen wong points out when it comes to cars that. Take all of the of the video that we now have for cars. It doesn't throw in every possible challenge to the car so they create a video you need to have children running across the street.

2:02:24 - Leo Laporte
Yes, exactly, yeah, yeah um, all right, I think you, as blog posters, posters, and Paris, as a future blog poster, should read about Listen.

2:02:38 - Jeff Jarvis
I've blogged oh sure. I came up blogging.

2:02:47 - Leo Laporte
Did you have a live journal when you were young?

2:02:50 - Jeff Jarvis
I had a Tumblr.

2:02:51 - Leo Laporte
Tumblr oh, that's right.

2:02:53 - Speaker 5
Yeah, that was hot.

2:02:54 - Leo Laporte
What did you tumble?

2:02:54 - Jeff Jarvis
I had a personal I don't know various things, probably a bunch of stuff related to the fan fiction I wrote.

2:03:01 - Leo Laporte
Nihilism.

2:03:03 - Jeff Jarvis
I wasn't nihilistic, I was really optimistic for a while.

2:03:07 - Speaker 7
Yeah, those aren't exclusive. Those two things aren't exclusive.

2:03:10 - Jeff Jarvis
I know, I'm just saying it wasn't my, I wouldn't have described myself as an analyst you had your goth period right oh yes, but the goth period, I think I was still a ball of sunshine.

2:03:22 - Leo Laporte
I would love to see your goth look did you have? Dark eyeliner, pale face makeup.

2:03:33 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, I think I was just pale generally did your mother wish you pale face makeup bangs.

2:03:37 - Leo Laporte
I mean, I think I was just, I was just pale generally did your mother wish you looked happier.

2:03:43 - Jeff Jarvis
Like nail polish. I think my parents tried to be really supportive of it. Oh good, oh, that's nice. But like they tried to, they would like give me fashion suggestions that were like actually nice, instead of goth or sane, which wasn't what I was looking for.

2:03:57 - Leo Laporte
Looking for it to be kind of crummy and scuzzy as the so from the electric eclectic light company, which is a lovely blog by a painter whose name escapes me. He says I am going to use this emoji, the emoji, on any blog posts that I write that I have not used any AI on and he wants others to do this. Use the owl.

2:04:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Why the owl?

2:04:26 - Leo Laporte
Because it's symbolic of wisdom.

2:04:31 - Jeff Jarvis
I thought it was symbolic of the aliens, as in Twin Peaks.

2:04:38 - Leo Laporte
Oh is it? He says owls have long and deeply ingrained associations with the night and with wisdom and learning, going back to the classical civilizations of the mediterranean.

And then he has a naked lady named minerva who has an owl with her, denoting wisdom and learning a famous painting yes, but she's naked so I can't show it because, as we know, the credit card companies are now demonetizing anybody who has content that is any way seen to be inappropriate for a young person well, I don't disagree that they're doing that because they are and that sucks.

2:05:14 - Jeff Jarvis
But I think there's also something lost here which is the reason like the less sexy, conspiratorial well, it's, I guess, still sexy because it still involves new content, but less conspiratorial. Reason behind all of this is not just that these credit card companies are puritanical and motivated by removing the things we like, it's that sex-related content and porn-related content historically has a really, really high instant of chargebacks. Anything relating to that sort of stuff is going to have a chargeback rating frequency that is so much higher than any other product. So historically these companies don't want to support that because it costs more for them than other stuff.

2:06:03 - Leo Laporte
But I agree. There's also some puritanical. There are also pressure groups, including one in Australia that has convinced them. It's not worth it to support these steam and well.

2:06:15 - Jeff Jarvis
Part of what they also do is they alert the companies to offending products.

2:06:22 - Leo Laporte
I haven't have you seen these games that they're? They're now taking down off steam and itchio. I mean I don't. Are they really like pornographic, or they just?

2:06:29 - Jeff Jarvis
oh, I mean there are so many games that are basically just porn on steam. I know this because another one of my things I love to complain about is how the steam recommendation engine is one of the worst recommendation engines I've ever experienced in my life. They're all pretty bad, but I mean, that's the thing is, you are a company that has extreme granular data about every game I've played and how long I've played it and all the games I've wished. How do you not, how are you not able to recommend me things that I kind of would probably like? Almost everything they recommend is like a strange free to play game that is probably malware or like a weird porn game or something.

2:07:09 - Leo Laporte
Do you think they're just?

2:07:10 - Speaker 5
ads that they're paid.

2:07:12 - Leo Laporte
No.

2:07:14 - Speaker 7
I think my theory is that it's actually extremely hard to recommend games to people. That's one of that. It's hard, it's a hard problem.

2:07:21 - Leo Laporte
Remember netflix had a million dollar prize to come up with a recommendation engine. Somebody did won the prize, but they don't use it because it's because games are weird.

2:07:29 - Speaker 7
It's like someone can like rpgs, but they only like a specific kind of rpg. Yeah, I don't like these kinds of RPGs, that's all. It's really weird.

2:07:36 - Leo Laporte
All right, we need to take a final break before we're not going to do the picks quite yet. I have one more story about Tyler the creator, but first a word from our sponsor. You're watching Intelligent Machines with Jeff Jarvis, paris Martineau and me. I'm Leo Laporte. This episode brought to you by Agency Building.

Multi-agent software is hard Agent to agent and agent to tool communication. It's still the Wild West. How do you achieve accuracy and consistency in non-deterministic agentic apps? Ah, that's where Agency the agency comes in A-G-N-T-C-Y. The agency is an open source collective building, the internet of agents. What's the internet of agents? It's a collaboration layer where AI agents can communicate, discover each other and work across frameworks. It's the future For developers. Agency means standardized agent discovery tools, seamless protocols for interagent communication and modular components to compose and scale multi-agent workflows. Build with other engineers who care about high quality multi-agent software. Visit agencyorg and add your support. That's agn tcyorg. I can get behind this one Agencyorg. All right, I don't know if we're going to get taken down if I play this, but it is not Tyler the creator. I just want to say that right now.

2:09:07 - Speaker 7
You got to turn on your music original sound, oh yeah.

2:09:12 - Speaker 6
Don't tap the glass, don't tap the glass, don't tap the glass, don't tap the glass, don't tap the glass we're gonna get taken down.

2:09:20 - Leo Laporte
I'm calling now, yeah let's are we getting taken down?

2:09:23 - Speaker 7
not taken down, we're gonna get demonetized. We're gonna get demonetized, but it isn't tyler the creator. I don't care someone. This is a new kind of copyright troll. It's not. It's not about actual, so on sunday we played tom layer past.

2:09:36 - Leo Laporte
Wonderful, amazing guy which I know you will know well, jeff, because he wrote he's from our generation wrote amazing parody songs long before you go to american city.

2:09:47 - Speaker 5
You will find it very pretty. Just two things of which you must beware Don't drink the water and don't breathe the air, pollution, pollution.

2:09:58 - Leo Laporte
He passed away at the age of 97. But before he died, some years ago, he put all of his music, all of his publishing rights, all of his lyrics in the public domain, including all of his recordings. So to honor him, I played his very famous song, elements song, where he, to the song uh, to the tune of I am the model of a modern major general, sings every element in the periodic table, which is quite a feat oh, I've heard that one yeah, we got taken down.

No, we got demonetized, even though it's public domain. It's it's widely known to be public domain. I played it from his website. It's public domain, but we still, because somebody and this is the problem with the youtube and content id somebody claimed it and they took the money that we would have made from those episodes. That episode, jesus, because we got demonetized. So you're right, even though what I was playing which you couldn't hear anyway, so it's okay was a machine we could hear it.

We could hear it you could sort of hear it, maybe it was no, we heard it enough to be taken down.

2:10:58 - Speaker 5
So you gotta, you gotta, buzz it out okay.

2:11:02 - Leo Laporte
So what you didn't hear because we've bleeped it. Tyler the creator has put out an album called don't tap the glass top selling album in the country, probably. But the hook, the Internet is Humming that little piece, that little ditty you didn't hear a minute ago isn't in the song. It was released before the album came out. Somebody it was purported to be a leak from the album. It wasn't. Somebody used I Am to create kind of a bad AI not I Am A-M ML, a bad AI version of Tyler the creator and the bad version of the song. And, uh it, it undercut the actual release. Actually, was I playing the real song? Maybe I was playing the real song and this is let's not start.

So this is the video. Is Tylerler the creator and the real song, but somebody put that crap on top of it. The uh audio comes from a youtuber named claudian who probably would have us taken down if I played it. You're right, uh, it's. He calls it a prank. He did faked audio from rihanna, justin bieber, cardi. Sample lyrics from his fake Sabrina Carpenter single Manchild, you are a manchild, you act like a child. Oh, manchild. But one ex-user wrote that fake AI, don't tap the glass leak has been stuck in my head for days. Fake AI, don't tap the glass leak has been stuck in my head for days. Another called it the fake, the strongest song of the summer contender we've had this year. This is a whole new way of causing a mess on the internet, thanks to uh AI.

2:12:51 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, yeah, if you can get it to go viral, then I guess the rest doesn't matter.

2:12:55 - Speaker 7
Yeah, if you attach it to some celebrity, yeah, that's going to go.

2:12:58 - Speaker 5
All you need is attention, as they say.

2:13:03 - Leo Laporte
And it's you know, in a way it's ironic, because Tyler the creator is an internet creation. I mean, that's you know, he succeeded because he didn't have to have a record label. He was able to make it on the internet. So the internet bites its own, I guess. Hey, let's give some credit, as the Wall Street Journal did. We talked last week about chat, gpt and deep mind getting gold medals in the International math Olympiad. Wall Street Journal said turn it on its head. Here's the high schoolers who just beat the world's smartest ai models. That's the right way to say it. So google's deep mind and open ai got 35, but these american teenagers got higher scores good for them yay, does it name them?

uh well, it would be sad if it didn't yes, privacy issues or something oh, maybe they are all high schoolers.

Yeah, yeah, among them were four stars of the us team. No, it doesn't name tiger jong, a two-time gold medalist from california, alexander wang, who brought his third straight gold medal back to new jersey. One of the most decorated young mathematicians of all time. He's a high school senior. He has one more shot at gold at the IMO next year, but Wang says I think it's really likely AI next year is going to be able to get a perfect score. He says that would be insane progress, but I'm 50-50 on it. This might be the last time, in other words, that humans were at the top.

2:14:33 - Speaker 5
No, that high schoolers were at the top.

2:14:36 - Speaker 7
That high schoolers.

2:14:38 - Leo Laporte
Remember high schoolers? Yeah, Okay.

2:14:41 - Speaker 5
Don't diminish the accomplishment. Let's put ourselves up against these high schoolers. I couldn't do it, oh no, and I'm well beyond high school.

2:14:52 - Speaker 7
Yeah, but these high schoolers when they're 30?

2:15:00 - Leo Laporte
No, yeah, but these high schoolers when they're 30.

2:15:01 - Jeff Jarvis
No, that's the problem with math they will not be as good when they're 30, maybe when they're 25. No, what if the these, these people that have won multiple math competitions, you're telling me they're not going to go into some math based career?

2:15:08 - Leo Laporte
they're going to be. Oh yeah, they'll be quants on wall street or whatever, but I'm just saying that, historically, mathematicians make their greatest discoveries in their early 20s. They don't, they don't age well yeah why is that?

it's hard. Your brain does not, you know. Continue. Here are the deep mind medal winners. Why are we have a picture of them? I guess they're not high schoolers, right? Yeah, oh well, it is an important, an interesting point. There we go. Here we go with the actual team usa, including alexander wang, who is fourth from the right holding the american flag, and you see their gold medals right there. Look at those. They look pretty good, in fact, out of the. What is that?

I'm gonna have to do some math, but it looks like nine of them good job yes, a full six of them, which, if I am correct, is 66 percent, have gold medals 66.666 yes she has one, she's just not showing it I mean being a woman.

She's not being as braggadocious, she's not boasting as chat to me to chat, gpt would say uh, tiger jong is known as tiger because, uh, he's 17 years old in la high school student on his way to mit to study math and computer science. As a young boy, his family moved to the us from china. His parents said you need to take an american name. You have two choices one was tiger, the other was elephant.

I think he chose the right, yeah he done good his career in competitive math began in the second grade when he entered a contest called the math kangaroo wow and he slayed the kangaroo. Yeah, it ended this month at the math olympics next to a hotel in australia with actual kangaroos. And thank you, wall street journal for that full circle, full circle.

It went full circle. Um, the one problem that none of the ais got was problem six. Jang spent the longest amount of time during the exam on problem six, a problem in the notoriously tricky field of combinatorics, the branch of mathematics that deals with counting, arranging and combining discrete objects, as I just did, by the way, with mastery, with those nine students. It was easily the hardest on this year's test. The solution required the ingenuity, creativity and intuition that humans can muster but machines cannot, at least not yet. Would you like to hear?

It sure it's a short problem, maybe, uh, darren oakley, could you get to work on this one? This, think of this. And paul holder are our champions, uh, and if psy phases around, he's another champion in our Advent of Code challenge every year. Problem six consider a 25 by 25 grid of unit squares. Matilda Matilda's always up to no good wishes to place on the grid some rectangular tiles, possibly of different sizes, such that each side of every tile lies in a grid line and almost every unit square is covered by at least I'm sorry, by at most one tile so I can't have more than one hold on a second.

2:18:20 - Speaker 5
I can't visualize this. But you really can't visualize this?

2:18:22 - Leo Laporte
no, actually I can because it's abstract, I can understand and understand what they're saying determine the minimum number of tiles matilda needs to place so that each row and each column of the grid is exactly one unit square that is not covered by any tile. Oh, so you would say if, if, if they all need to be covered, it'd be 2025 by 2025. But no, no, each row and each column has exactly one unit square that is not covered by any tile. All right, tile. All right, paul and uh and darren and syphase get to work. I expect your answers before the show is over. The answer oh, I won't tell you the answer. I know the answer.

I won't tell you the answer, I figured it out. Problem six stumped deep mind and open ai's models. It also stumped 569. Out of the 630 students, only six got. Uh, all all of the pro, all the problems correct does gold medal that they were 100 no, no, 35 is a gold medal 30, so you only had to get four out of seven, I think something like that. 72 contestants got gold, uh, and of course some of them actually beat the ai models.

2:19:40 - Speaker 5
Not a lot oh, so they're featuring the ones who beat the ai?

2:19:44 - Jeff Jarvis
yeah, okay yes, these are the people that beat god, they were better than the ai and how long do they have to do this torture?

2:19:51 - Leo Laporte
two, I think it was two hours, I can't remember. Yeah, something like that, two and a half hours.

2:19:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Anyway, good, going tiger at all at all um I ought to be a mathlete named tiger yeah who will?

2:20:12 - Leo Laporte
when you see, will be a wasp boy named tiger simon willison, who is a columnist we've referred to, before he writes a blog but what a what, leo, a blog a blog is about?

2:20:25 - Speaker 5
ai, he right, he doesn't just write a post, right, leo, he wrote well, this, this blog, blog this blog was actually about his 20 no, he's a proper name, it's a weblog, it's a weblog, it's a weblog.

2:20:37 - Leo Laporte
Oh, he even says it's a weblog. Yeah, that's what you had. A tumblr was a weblog because it was a log of websites that you linked to. So he one-shotted a spacers, a space invaders game. Invaders game. Uh, it in one shot. Look at that. That's vibe code and baby nice.

2:21:25 - Speaker 5
And how does it know what space invaders was? How does it get that?

2:21:29 - Leo Laporte
uh, that's a good question. It must have looked it up. I don't know. It knew because it was in its um training come on the interesting.

2:21:36 - Speaker 7
On interesting there about space invaders Jeff yeah, yeah, true, so it ingested.

2:21:40 - Leo Laporte
The interesting thing is he did it on a two and a half year old MacBook Pro m2, a 64 gig model, so the fact that he's running it locally with a local model. That's interesting local model it wasn't hugging face, but it was a local model, yeah, so he downloaded it, in other words, from hugging space, hugging face. That's interesting. So the local model it wasn't Hugging Face, but it was a local model, yeah, so he downloaded it, in other words, from Hugging Face.

2:22:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Very impressive Very cool.

2:22:04 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah In one line Now. He then asked it to create a scalable vector graphic of a pelican riding a bicycle and got that.

2:22:16 - Jeff Jarvis
but you, bicycles are hard. What can you say?

2:22:26 - Leo Laporte
his, uh, simon's bottom line is local coding models are really good now and I'm very interested in this because I've tried the local models and you know actually Darren like or no, is it, dr? Do no, darren likes his local models, he uses llama. But you know I've I've had less than excellent results from local models. They're getting better and what's interesting is these Chinese models are getting better enjoy Lama while you can, because it's backing away from uh, well, that was the rumor. Has he? Have we seen any confirmation?

2:22:59 - Speaker 5
story here. Well, his argument is he says um from PC mag. It's like um that uh, with eight within super intelligent AI now in sight. With super intelligent AI now in sight, it won't be open source like Lama, which critics have already read about. He just said it's more dangerous. Ergo he's going to be more careful.

2:23:23 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I hope that they don't pull back on the local models, but you know what? The Chinese companies are not, so there.

2:23:32 - Speaker 5
I think there's going to be competition.

2:23:35 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, ai is wrecking an already fragile job market for college graduates. Wall street journal. I think we knew that, because the entry-level jobs are going away and that's the problem. But that's.

2:23:46 - Speaker 5
That's stupid humans who aren't building their future staff.

2:23:50 - Leo Laporte
They should think about it yeah, they really, really should.

2:23:53 - Speaker 5
You know one of these studies. The studies in here were ridiculous. I put them in there, but but Anthropic, did one, yeah, 700 professions.

2:24:00 - Leo Laporte
But here's Microsoft the chats 40 jobs about to be destroyed by AI.

2:24:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Microsoft. The list is ridiculous, ridiculous interpreters and translators.

2:24:10 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's probably true, right the number two one is his historian.

2:24:13 - Speaker 5
Historians are going to be put out of work. Historians. No, no, true, right. The number two one is historians. Historians are going to be put out of work.

2:24:15 - Leo Laporte
Historians no, no, it's not number two. I don't know what the order is, because there's only 3 000 historians no, originally, uh.

2:24:24 - Jeff Jarvis
So I'm looking at like uh a thing from a screenshot from the paper and it like historians are number two because they have like a higher score, I believe a higher percentage of them will lose their jobs.

2:24:34 - Speaker 5
So so passenger attendance, flight attendance by what? What?

2:24:39 - Leo Laporte
no sense. Sales representatives.

2:24:42 - Speaker 7
Yes, well, the people at the desk, though, for, like the flight attendants, the people who serve you at the desk before you get on the plane okay, but do you need safety?

2:24:50 - Leo Laporte
people in the plane, on the plane people but those are still the same people. That's customer service representatives, for sure. Cnc tool programmers, yeah, telephone operators they this?

2:25:03 - Jeff Jarvis
okay, this perhaps draws into question this whole thing. It says there's more telephone operators than historians, ticket agents.

2:25:11 - Speaker 7
They died a long time ago, didn't they yeah Gone.

2:25:14 - Leo Laporte
Broadcast announcers and radio DJs, uh-oh.

2:25:18 - Speaker 5
Uh-oh, all your people.

2:25:20 - Leo Laporte
But wait a minute. I spent many years learning how to make my voice do this. I don't think an AI can do this, can it? 56 degrees in the city on a beautiful Wednesday afternoon. I hope you're having a safe drive home. We'll have more from neil diamond right after this brokerage. See, I don't think any I could do that. Brokerage clerks, farm and home management educators, telemarketers yeah, they can go. They can go. Concierges maybe. I think somebody's gonna still have to call the restaurant and say, hey, joe, well, actually, no.

2:25:53 - Speaker 5
What happens is that the restaurant has bribed the concierge to send the poor tourists to the bad Italian restaurant. Right, they can't bribe an.

2:26:00 - Leo Laporte
AI political scientists no, I don't think the academics this is stupid news reporters and journalists.

2:26:08 - Speaker 5
What the hell is this thing?

2:26:09 - Leo Laporte
hosts and hostesses yeah, you need somebody to greet you at the door, say how many in your party. You can't sit down until your entire party is here. That kind of thing you need. You need people to do that. Give you the menu you really need. Renter and rental clerks yeah, demonstrators and product promoters. Who's that? Those are the people at the auto shows, the young ladies and skimpy outfits.

2:26:37 - Speaker 5
Let me show you the wonder of the benjamatic you can't.

2:26:41 - Leo Laporte
Ai can't do that. Slices anything. I think the desk job's fine, but the economic teachers are out of business. Archivists, web developers science models. No well, maybe. Well, maybe you won't need sydney sweeney to show off her jeans anymore.

2:27:02 - Speaker 5
Right switchboard operators where is there a switchboard operator?

2:27:06 - Leo Laporte
there's 43 000 of them in the hotel down the street is this from from like 1937.

2:27:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Part of those are probably mta switchboard operators which still exist they're running the trains is what you're saying that's true so none of these jobs are middle management, none of them yeah

2:27:25 - Leo Laporte
yeah, we're going to get rid of all the entry-level people first.

2:27:28 - Speaker 5
It's an absurd story, so we don't know what the impact. Yes, we need to be concerned about the impact on jobs, but so far we're not dealing with real data.

2:27:36 - Leo Laporte
Here's the good news your chances of getting a job at Chipotle are much improved Because Chipotle's AI hiring tool is helping it find new workers 75% faster.

2:27:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Guess what it calls it.

2:27:51 - Leo Laporte
Guess what it calls it Avocado, avocado, no, no, no, no. Guess what it calls it avocado wait a minute.

2:28:09 - Speaker 5
Starbucks, you too. Huh, you go to starbucks. Not anymore.

2:28:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Not since I discovered what coffee's supposed to taste like. Oh, that's right stop. Yeah, I was going to say, if I have to get up really early to work and want to get a hot food item before 6, then yes, most of them have stopped putting the little cardboard sleeve on.

2:28:23 - Speaker 5
Good, they're respecting our environment, you get hot coffee from Starbucks.

2:28:26 - Jeff Jarvis
It's also a heat wave, Jeff. We're 100 degrees out today.

2:28:30 - Speaker 5
I do what I do Paris.

2:28:33 - Jeff Jarvis
And you don't drive over a bridge to get there, right?

2:28:40 - Leo Laporte
All right, anything else we need to talk about before we take?

2:28:42 - Speaker 5
our last break.

2:28:44 - Leo Laporte
Sam Altman worries about the non-zero chance the world will end from a lethal synthetic virus. Actually, that has nothing to do with it. That could happen at any time. Exactly we are not prepared for the next covid there's a Guardian review.

Elon Musk's diner yeah, did you see the poor people who live nearby? Oh no, they've got giant screens shining movies into their windows. There's apartment complexes right next to the giant diner. They interviewed one woman who moved months ago because the construction company put a giant light on the side of the building shining into their windows.

2:29:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh boy oh boy.

2:29:26 - Leo Laporte
Well, this is from the Guardian, so I think this is it. Elon must open a diner in Hollywood. What could go wrong? I went to find out, writes lois beckett in los angeles. Um, there were. This actually isn't the one I was talking about, but there are quite a few stories. There's the robot that, uh, serves popcorn, the optimist robot. There was a very funny tiktok video of it getting stalled and a guy had to come and press some buttons and reboot it where's the reboot?

2:29:59 - Speaker 5
you know what, john it's on its arm go away.

2:30:02 - Leo Laporte
Robot rebooting this is the giant movie screen. They project uh movies on two sides of the diner and apparently the people in the apartment buildings across the way are not happy about that.

2:30:21 - Speaker 5
Not at all, I wouldn't be either, no, oh, but look at that delicious. What is that? A waffle. It's chicken and waffles.

2:30:24 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's what the that looks horrible it does oh, elon, if I had a building there would be games playing.

2:30:34 - Speaker 7
I would have hacked that screen a long time ago Smart Yep.

2:30:39 - Leo Laporte
Even the food comes in boxes shaped like cyber trucks.

2:30:44 - Speaker 5
That's the worst of it all, oh my God.

2:30:46 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, that box is kind of cute. I'll give him that. Really Do you?

2:30:50 - Leo Laporte
think, I think everything else about. This is brilliant.

2:30:54 - Jeff Jarvis
I like a novelty box. What can I say? Yeah.

2:31:00 - Leo Laporte
All right, what else? Anything else. There's going to be a new singing competition show on TikTok. You know these shows are cheap to produce, like the Masked Singer and show on tiktok. You know these shows are cheap to produce, like, uh, like, uh, the mask singer, and uh. What are those other ones? America's got talent america's got talent um the voice, so it's going to be on tick tock, which is kind of interesting, on tick tock live we produced one of these twitch.

2:31:32 - Speaker 7
There was a twitch, one of these with all that, with like twitch celebrities.

2:31:35 - Leo Laporte
We did one yeah, they're very cheap to do, right, I mean, they're easy to do. It's called next up live music competition show solely on tiktok, live through september. People, I think people love these shows. The original, what is the original?

2:31:51 - Speaker 7
not the apprentice especially if it's like tikt TikTok celebrities, right like that, that's yeah people you know already.

2:31:57 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they can sing. I am not going to play Gwyneth Paltrow, no, but it was pretty, it was brilliant. I played it on Sunday. Smooth, good move, astronomer. Well, well played, well played, all right. Uh, I think it is time, because I see some wonderful picks ready to, ready to go.

2:32:18 - Speaker 5
But first, I'm very proud of mine today. It's a very good one today, nice, happy with it. Yes.

2:32:22 - Leo Laporte
I am very proud of our club. Without it, uh, we would have to cut back, we would have to get rid of people cancel shows, and I don't want to do that. The club now, uh, supports we see the advertisers. You hear ads, which is great, we love our ads, but they only pay 75 of our operating expenses. That that means there's a pretty big gap of 25. Thank goodness, lisa, four years ago, almost five now said let's do a club, give people who listen to shows a chance to support it, and your response has been phenomenal. I have to thank you from the bottom of my heart, uh, and I'm sure, uh, that everybody who works at twit thanks you. But now I'd like to make an appeal to those of you who are watching who are not yet members. If you like the content, the programming we do here, we need your support. But there's a good way to do that, and that's to join the club. It's only 10 bucks a month you get. And that's to join the club. It's only $10 a month. You get excellent. You get access to the ClubTwit Discord, which is a fabulous hangout with some of the smartest, most interesting people, other club members, right. You also get to watch shows that we don't put out in public. All the keynotes from now on are going to be done in the club.

We have some events coming up, including the ai user group on friday. Anthony nielsen leads that. I I join, as every time I can. Uh, I we've asked alex lindsay if he'll come by and show us how he uses mid journey to design images. Anthony's showed us that kind of thing and any of our coders or anybody who wants to join in, show us how you're using AI. It's a lot of fun. Home Theater Geeks. August 4th that's this Monday he's going to be doing the value shootout and name the king of TVs. We have a new king in town.

Our book club is, a week from Friday, stacey's Book Club. Is this how you Lose the Time War, stacey Higginbotham. We couldn't get her every week for the show, but we could get her every other month for the book club. She loves talking about books. I do too, and I really liked this book, so I highly recommend it. You still have time to read it. It's not very long but it's very interesting. This is how you Lose the Time War by Amal El-Motar and Max Gladstone. Right after that, on the same day, at 2 pm Pacific Photo Time with Chris Marquardt we'll do our review of Classic and, of course, google's Pixel 9 announcement or, I'm sorry, pixel 10 announcement made by Google is August 20th. We'll stream that. Mike and I will be doing that in the club Mike is crafting Corner that, following Wednesday, I'm going to be doing some sewing.

I brought my uh, my, my wardrobe shirts, these shirts that I wear on the shows. I brought them to my cleaners. I said there's some buttons missing. Could you fix them? He said, yeah, sure. So I got them back. There's, they're still missing. So I realized I have to sew on my own buttons. So I have ordered a sewing kit and then I saw this thing that looks like a button stapler from singer.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna compare the two in micah's crafting corner a little bit of consumer reports right here right here on getting your bus so I'm gonna take a rag, I'm gonna sew some buttons and you can do whatever craft you want. That is what is fun about the club. On friday, richard campbell came and did his PC build for four and a half hours. Oh Jesus, they talked about I mean, it's great Pros and cons. Was he drinking bourbon throughout? Yes, it was a super geek out session, really fantastic. If you're not in the club, please twittv, slash club twit. We'd love to have you, we really would.

2:35:59 - Jeff Jarvis
Now it's time for our picks of the week from, uh, ms paris martineau. So, building off of last week, uh, jeff's pick involving crows, I've got a bird pick for you guys this week, which is some guy saved a png file to a bird what? Uh birds can store data so this is a youtuber and audio scientist, ben jordan. He, uh, he basically figured out a way to save a, save a png to.

To what part of the bird he converted a drawing like just basically did a simple like line drawing of a bird into a spectrogram which like takes kind of like a PNG, puts it into a sound wave, then put that sound wave in a bird song, played it to a starling and then came back visited the starling.

2:36:52 - Leo Laporte
Sort of randomly going through it. He's training it to sing.

2:36:56 - Jeff Jarvis
Didn't even train it, just played it to the starling once. Just a PNG in bird song form. And he came back recorded the bird's song, looked at the data and there was the bird drawing he'd made no. The bird somehow transmitted this will save us the bird transmitted data ben.

2:37:18 - Leo Laporte
Jordan is actually a great youtuber. People love him.

Uh, what jordan estimated that the bird effectively retained and retransmitted 176 kilobytes of data in audio format that is amazing, amazing, all right, well, as long as we're talking youtubers and birds, I got one that actually came from club twit uh in our twit community, our forums at twitcommunity. Mark rober, you know, is the nasa scientist he first. He's most famous for doing the uh, the, the glitter bombs for porch pirates, right, but he does some of the most elaborate, amazing videos ever. He believes crows are very smart, I agree. And he decided to make an escape room for a crow. He tried it out on some of his friendly neighbors, some kids. He decided to go out and buy the crow will watch the crows will steal. When the DoorDash guy comes, the crows steal his nuggets. So he decided this is a good incentive for a crow. And so he built this amazing, beautiful escape room with puzzles, multiple puzzles, had the kids try it. The kids were stymied by it. The crow was not.

2:38:45 - Jeff Jarvis
The crow figured it out.

2:38:47 - Leo Laporte
The crow escaped. Well, I don't want to spoil it for you, so I won't tell you what happened. But the crow? Well, I'll give you an example. This is an example. So this is uh he has. He has placed the nuggets under a cage that the crow has to solve a number of puzzles to raise the cage. One of the puzzles is this graduated cylinder that has, uh, water in it and a little, uh, bobble.

Okay, a wooden ball, a ball the crow happens to like, right, so she wants it, but she can't get it. It's too far down there. So does she. Can she figure out? Can you figure out how to get that ball to rise up? In the graduated cylinder there's corks. She looked at the corks. Would that work? No, they float. There's cotton balls. Would that work? No, no, they. Ah, she figured out. Put the rocks in there until the water level rises enough so that she can get the ball. Incidentally, she's also rising, see, on that little cylinder, to the on the side. No, the corks aren't gonna work Crow, no, she doesn't like the corks she's mad, the corks, she.

2:40:00 - Speaker 5
She says that she should be.

2:40:02 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, she took the rock and put it back in there. Crows are so smart. Watch the ball's going higher. Now, once she can get the ball, that other cylinder will trigger. There we go, the light, and it comes on over to the balances, which he immediately flies over to. And well, I'll just let you figure out. He had trained the crow, of course, but uh what a cool is that brilliant?

37 million views in seven months. Wow, mark robert rober, who has 70 million subscribers. Uh, there is another bird video for you. You can you could put a ping in a bird song, or you can teach a crow to fetch some nugs someone in the discord said uh, effectively, they sent a tweet, effectively, they sent a tweet.

2:40:55 - Speaker 5
That's a real tweet jeff pick of the week. All right. So we've got a I slop and we have god slop oh no so, uh, there was a, a uk christianity magazine pointed to this, so if you go to that one, you're on 165. This is, uh, jesus at the wedding. You turn the sound up. Oh my god, let's see what kind of trouble we're not getting into jesus as an influencer wait wait, wait. You hear that line.

2:41:20 - Leo Laporte
Let's see what kind of trouble we're not getting into okay, uh, if you are a religious person, you might find this somewhat sacrilegious.

2:41:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Just a word of warning and we just got to this wedding and it looks amazing.

2:41:33 - Speaker 6
Let's see what kind of trouble we're not getting into today.

2:41:36 - Speaker 5
All right, quick vibes, check food's flowing, music's fire my mom's this is american probably plotting something 10, 10 wedding so far hi guys, I'm jc's mom and I just told him the wine's gone totally out so now it's officially his problem.

2:41:53 - Speaker 6
All right, I'm going to need these my.

2:41:56 - Jeff Jarvis
God.

2:41:58 - Leo Laporte
This is all done on VO, I presume. I presume Something like it. There's water. He's putting water in the amphora. All right, Water's in.

2:42:08 - Jeff Jarvis
He's British now. Now he's suddenly.

2:42:10 - Leo Laporte
British.

2:42:10 - Speaker 5
All of a sudden, he's wearing underwear.

2:42:14 - Speaker 6
Moment of truth. If this goes, goes well, I'm a legend.

2:42:18 - Speaker 5
If not, I just ruined a bunch of water it worked crisis averted, vibes restored and, let's be honest, if we'd ordered wine for delivery, it would have taken years so, but this is a religious group that made this no, it's, it's just some. They're just. People are making them online and they're ridiculous.

2:42:36 - Leo Laporte
Holy Vlogs V-L-O-G-Z-S-E.

2:42:39 - Speaker 5
So there's another one with Noah.

2:42:42 - Leo Laporte
You want to see Noah land in the ark, okay.

2:42:46 - Paris Martineau
Got this wild DIY project from the big guy upstairs. He said two of every kind.

2:42:49 - Speaker 6
So guess who's learning animal husbandry?

2:42:51 - Paris Martineau
real fast. Okay, day 27 of rain. The Wi-Fi is spotty.

2:42:55 - Speaker 7
The lions are not happy with the vegetarian meal plan and someone keeps asking are we there yet?

2:43:00 - Leo Laporte
This is from a historical influencer that's a real person. This is not AI. No pressure little boy. Well, maybe it is. No, that's definitely.

2:43:07 - Speaker 6
AI.

2:43:07 - Leo Laporte
How would you do that?

2:43:08 - Speaker 6
He's back and he's got proof. An olive, an olive branch. You guys know what this means. Hope is at a million.

2:43:14 - Speaker 5
Let's go.

2:43:18 - Leo Laporte
I love it. The AI really knows how to do influencers Wow.

2:43:21 - Speaker 7
It's probably what they have the most volume of. Yeah, of course.

2:43:26 - Paris Martineau
Unboxing the entire animal kingdom. Like comment and subscribe if you want to see the first rainbow.

2:43:34 - Speaker 5
The Virgin Mary one ends with. Don't forget to like and pray.

2:43:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, oh, my, oh, my Angel literally showed up and said I'm going to have a baby from God.

2:43:46 - Speaker 7
Like what? Okay, I told Joseph. He froze for like five minutes. Then asked if I was sure. I said absolutely, he's been pacing in the backyard ever since.

2:44:01 - Paris Martineau
So we're heading to Bethlehem Nine months pregnant on a donkey. This is not how I pictured today going. Okay, I'm about to give birth, there's a cow snoring, no bed and it smells like donkey. Five stars for privacy, zero for comfort. Hey guys, he's here here, born right here in this cozy barn. We're tired, but our hearts are full okay, not even 24 hours old, getting gifts. Baby's first collab we'll unbox later.

2:44:25 - Leo Laporte
Love you guys care baby's first collab we'll unbox later please forgive us Padre smash that baptism button.

2:44:38 - Speaker 5
I said my, my minister sister, she left that is.

2:44:41 - Leo Laporte
That is quite well. She's a Protestant, so yes that's right uh, that is. In fact, she's a Unitarian, which I don't even know Presbyterian okay, that's different wonderful.

2:44:51 - Speaker 5
I love those watches up yeah, wonderful, I love those.

2:44:58 - Leo Laporte
It's enough to make me put TikTok back on my phone. You saw, by the way, that the president now wants to ban TikTok.

2:45:02 - Speaker 5
No, I didn't, oh, geez.

2:45:05 - Leo Laporte
He says they're not making a deal. I gave them an opportunity. They don't want to make a deal. I'm sorry you have till whatever. It isember 1st. Uh, jd couldn't close the deal, so we're just going to shut him down. He's trying to what he's actually going to do that he's using the tariffs, right? He's hoping the chinese government will back down because of the tariffs. I don't think they're going to.

2:45:31 - Speaker 7
I don't think they care that much you know, maybe you know, they just rescinded the minimus exception for tariffs right like yes, this is terrible yeah yeah, the 800 exception on sub 800, that's bad for a your Sheehan purchase but there is some good news.

2:45:46 - Leo Laporte
We think, we're not sure that alcohol will be exempt from the EU tariffs, so your wine will still be affordable.

2:45:51 - Speaker 7
So they didn't exempt coffee from the brazil terrace that's no, that's now, that could.

2:45:59 - Leo Laporte
Now you're, you're, you're hitting where it hurts. Now well, I'm not sure with his, his people well, I'm sure as some, as someone who just paid six dollars for coffee it's gonna yeah it'll be a little more than that. All right, we're done. Thank you so much, paris martineau. Congratulations on the new job. Do you know yet what your first expose is going to be?

2:46:21 - Jeff Jarvis
oh yes, I'm fast at work on us really oh, how hard is it?

2:46:26 - Leo Laporte
I see I would find it very challenging to come up with a thing to investigate. How hard is that?

2:46:33 - Jeff Jarvis
it is I mean, it's difficult if you're coming from nothing, but it is really. It's really just you find something that's interesting to you, you just want to learn more about. And then you go from there.

2:46:45 - Speaker 5
Um so you just kind of immerse yourself in a topic and then figure out what you'd be curious about wow, paris told me that that she had to come up with ideas to get the job and they loved her ideas.

2:46:55 - Jeff Jarvis
Eric, you got the job. Eric Bischoff oh, that's fantastic. Darrell Bock, so I already had someone to work with, yeah.

2:47:00 - Speaker 5
Eric Bischoff. So is the story you're working on. First one of those ideas, darrell Bock. It is one of those ideas, eric Bischoff, oh love it.

2:47:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Darrell Bock. It actually turned out one of the. We already had kind of some teams working on some aspect of like relating to testing and whatnot, so it was kind of a perfect moment of synergy. So we're all working together.

2:47:21 - Leo Laporte
Congratulations. I'm so happy. I can't wait to read it. As a subscriber, I will be the first. Well done, Paris.

2:47:29 - Jeff Jarvis
It's in front of the paywall, but you can read it because you're a subscriber. I'm a subscriber.

2:47:34 - Leo Laporte
So your stuff is all going to be past the paywall because you're so expensive uh, no, I believe all of my stuff because I'm part of the special projects oh, yeah, yeah uh advocacy focused and impact focused. They do paywall paywall they do pay well, very well. For instance, they'll show uh their which cars they like, but they won't show you all the details.

So you have to be a subscriber to see the full details this is very well done, I think Jeff Jarvis speaking of well done. He's got all these great books. He's to a crisp the gutenberg parenthesis now in paperback magazine, now in audio form and, of course, the web. We weave his road map for the success and future of the web. Uh, thank you, jeff, we appreciate it. He is a professor of journalistic innovation emeritus at the craig narmark graduate school of journalism with the seniors and uh, currently at louis at uh and other ships montclair among yeah university and uh suny stash I wanted to.

2:48:37 - Speaker 5
I wanted to terrorize uh jammer b today, because the youtube now says you can use bad language yes, in the first few minutes you can say the f word.

2:48:46 - Speaker 6
Yeah, why did they back down? Why did first of all the first few minutes?

2:48:51 - Leo Laporte
they did. They said you, if you do it in the first few minutes, will demonetize you. And then, for some reason, they've changed their mind get everybody's saying it now stop that, sorry, I had to bleep you. I still gotta do the work though you know you do. I thought, you know what I, instead of bleeping, what I like, benito, is uh, take the word and reverse that portion of it. So it goes get blub, blub. I love that. Get blub, blub, blub blub, blub, blub. I love it when that happens.

2:49:22 - Jeff Jarvis
You blub and then play it backwards and it will say Paul is dead. I was going to say, you can play it backwards and suddenly you're in the red room of Twin Peaks.

2:49:32 - Speaker 7
My favorite way is to do it like the old TV way You're in the red room of Twin Peaks. My favorite way is to do it like the old TV way.

2:49:37 - Leo Laporte
They used to censor movies on TV in the 80s, you put fudge in. Change the words yeah. Yeah, they come in and they do overdubbing. I'll kill your mother, father.

2:49:45 - Jeff Jarvis
You can put this word in where I said the F word Frick. You could do that. You could just cut that. Shut the front door.

2:49:57 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you could just shut the front door. Yeah, yeah, I like, uh, there's actually there's some really good, uh euphemistic ways to do it. There's, of course, the good place has some good euphemisms battle star galactica, they would use, they would use no, that was serenity firefly, they would use chinese swear words and the bass star galactica, they said frack a lot and there were ethnic slurs in uh, the expanse that they made up oh, they made them up though

because, yeah, they have different races. Uh, thank you paris, thank you jeff, thank you benito gonzalez, our esteemed producer and technical director thank you, anthony nielsen who does a lot of our booking.

Yeah, including Ian, our wonderful guest, ian Kreitzberg. Subscribe to his newsletter at pucknews. Thanks to all of you. Next week, on the show, we will have the CEO of my favorite search engine. No, not Sundar Pichai. No, not Satya Nadella, it's going to be Vlad Prelovacac, who is the ceo of kagi I. It's so good, I pay for it and it is the future of search. Uh, so we will be. That'll be very interesting. They use a lot of ai as well. Thank you for being here. Thanks especially to our club members. We do intelligent machines every wednesday right after the whiskey. Intelligent machines every Wednesday right after the whiskey Windows Weekly's whiskey segment. That's 2 pm pacific, 5 pm eastern, 2100 UTC. You can watch live in the club twit discord if you're a club member, otherwise on youtube, tiktok, twitch, xcom, facebook linkedin and kick. Did I get them all?

2:51:30 - Jeff Jarvis
you're counting, okay, seven am I missing one? Probably more. Maybe I just didn't count right. I'm not an athlete, I'm not, I'm not.

2:51:38 - Leo Laporte
No gold medal for you, that's right after the fact, on demand versions of the show at our website, twittv slash I am. You'll also finda link there to the youtube channel great place to clip parts of the show. If you want to share it with friends and family, do please, because that'll help us. And of course, you can subscribe in your favorite podcast client, uh, and get it automatically. You don't have to think about it audio or video. Paris says if you leave us an interesting five-star review, she will read it on the air.

2:52:05 - Jeff Jarvis
Apparently there were none last week, or she was so busy, I was busy I can read one right here, okay paul vc says I love twit and as a member I follow most of the shows, but this windows weekly and mac break are my favorite.

2:52:20 - Leo Laporte
Paris it's nearly autumn he loves paris's amazing spook sound. Thank you, paul vc two thumbs up for your five star. We appreciate that. We appreciate all of you. Thank you for watching vc. Two thumbs up for your five star. We appreciate that. We appreciate all of you. Thank you for watching and listening. We'll see you next week on intelligent machines.

2:52:41 - Speaker 5
One more time, paris I'm not a human being, not into this animal scene. I'm an intelligent machine.