Home Theater Geeks 475 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
In this episode of Home Theater Geeks, I talk about the acoustic treatments in my home theater with Anthony Grimani, so stick around.

00:11 - Leo (Announcement)
Podcasts you love.

00:13 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
From people you trust.

00:15 - Leo (Announcement)
This is.

00:17 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Twit.

00:30 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Hey there, Scott Wilkinson, here the home theater geek. In this episode, I continue my conversation with Anthony Grimani, this time about the acoustic treatments in my home theater Now. Anthony is an electrical engineer. He specializes in audio electronics, acoustics and speaker design, and he's also a home theater designer and the head of several companies, including Grimani Systems, which makes speakers, PMI Limited, which is a design consultation firm that does everything in room design for home theaters and commercial spaces like restaurants and professional studios and integrated media and living spaces, and he also heads MSR Acoustics, which is a resource for acoustical materials, which is what we're going to talk about today, and they market, among other things, the Sonitus line of cost-effective home theater acoustical treatments. Hey Anthony, welcome back to the show.

01:36 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Hey Scott, it's good to be back with you.

01:39 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yes, in our last episode we talked at length about the speakers that were installed in my home theater, which you provided and I'm very grateful for that, because they sound amazing and we went into a lot of detail about how they were placed, the fact that my room is imperfect, with one wall missing, and how to compromise intelligently for that. Now we're going to talk about acoustic treatments, which are, generally speaking, panels that you put up on the wall to affect the acoustical behavior of the room. So I want to start by asking you what is your general philosophy of acoustic treatments and how does that philosophy intersect with your thoughts about what's often called automatic room correction, like Odyssey and Dirac and stuff like that?

02:42 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
right, um, so I I always like to talk about either cars or cooking, because this is stuff we we all know about and the analogies I I think. In cooking there's all these spices you can use, there's, of course, salt and pepper, and then there's cumin, and there's you know, the list goes on and on and on, and there is just the right amount of salt and the right amount of pepper and the right amount of paprika to put into a dish. To where it all works. Put too much of it and the dish is ruined.

03:13
Same thing with acoustical treatments. There's just the right amount of either absorption, which is materials that suck the sound, actually converted into heat through friction, suck the sound, actually converted into heat through friction. There's the right amount of scattering, which is materials that the incoming sound waves get scattered back out into little pieces. And then the other category, usually that people call bass traps I just like to call them bass absorbers. There's the right amount of bass absorbers so that the bass decay time is controlled the right way and the standing waves are controlled the right way.

03:45
So every room, just like every dish, requires the right amount of treatments. And the really interesting thing is a bunch of research was done a while back on what listener preferences are in terms of acoustical character of rooms. Preferences are in terms of acoustical character of rooms and it's been found most people tend to like a certain amount of reflection, a certain amount of absorption, a certain amount of scattering on listening to music, listening to films, listening to dialogue, and there's a pretty good statistical center to that. So, with that in mind, you can take a room of a certain size and you can go hey, given that size, in order to make most people enjoy the sound, I need to have so much reflection, so much absorption, and just run the calculations and go look, this is what you need.

04:40 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Now a lot of people will just buy an AV receiver or something that has a room correction in it, like Odyssey or Dirac, and just run that. Is that a good idea?

05:00 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
It is a good idea up to a certain point, and there are several points. The point number one is that if the room has severe acoustical anomalies, like too long of a reflection decay time at some frequencies and too short at other frequencies, there's no way for the receiver to know that. There's no way for the receiver to know that what it's going to do is try to adjust everything to where there's an equal amount of sound, regardless of whether the room is reverberant at some frequencies or not other frequencies. So it's going to compensate for that and you're going to end up with an error. And it's an error because the microphone I actually found my microphone here the microphone is mightier than the sword. No, the microphone listens linearly. The human ear brain, and probably most animals' ear brain, does not listen linearly. It has the ability to separate the direct sound from the speakers from the reflected sounds in the room and it does so. And it adds it all up in a really complicated way that I'm not going to get into over here. But there's a there's a field of study called psychoacoustics where they worry about that and the people who practice that professionally are psychoacousticians. Yes, I'd love to be able to say I'm a psychoacoustician. This guy walks into a bar, sits down and tells somebody they're a psychoacoustician. Everybody leaves no-transcript.

06:54
And I have found that myself, doing either auto-EQ or manual EQ using microphones, like we talked about in the last session, where you adjust everything, you draw a nice even target curve on your computer, following all of the rules, using good analysis and good microphones, and you listen, you go that doesn't sound right and you go what's going on? Well, if you happen to be using Room EQ Wizard, which is one of my favorite programs, you can actually look using certain types of measurements. You can look at the reflection decay time. You can actually look at what they call RT60. But there's a whole bunch of different ways to look at it and you can see that things are not smooth at all. Frequencies and you go aha, over here I have much longer of a decay time and over here I don't. So really my target curve should follow that and then you can adjust your target curve that way. The auto EQ systems, they don't do that.

07:51
Also, beyond that, if you have uneven acoustical character or if you have speakers with an uneven dispersion, also known as sound power with frequency, it's going to be very hard for the auto-EQ system to work their way around that. So if you want a chance that auto-EQ works well, you want to first pick a speaker system that has even radiation patterns, so even off-axis response with frequency, also known as sound power. That's the term of technical expression, and power over time is energy. That tells you what the energy bubble in the room is going to be. So you start with a speaker like that and then next you make sure that the acoustical character of your room has an even decay of sound for all the frequencies that you're playing Pretty much even Low frequency it's okay for it to go rising up a little bit and at high frequency to fall off a little bit. But relatively, even If you have both of those things, chances are your auto EQ is going to work well. So you really do want to do that.

08:58 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
But if not, but if not.

09:00 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So I was going to say that if you've taken the effort to choose speakers with an even off-axis response, so where the sound going directly to you has a certain character and the sound going off 10 degrees, 20 degrees, 30 degrees is even, you've probably sprung for a pretty expensive speaker because it costs more money to make a speaker that way. The topologies of the speaker usually have to go to three-way. The drivers have to be really good, with really wide dispersion. The crosso of the speaker usually have to go to three-way. The drivers have to be really good, with really wide dispersion. The crossovers need to be good.

09:28
It's a bunch of stuff the manufacturer has to do to make speakers that have really even dispersion with frequency. If you've treated the room with the right acoustical materials or you've measured it and you spent the time to get it right, at that point you probably deserve to do the equalization manually, because you've already done a lot of work and spent a lot of money to get here. Why would you go, you know, to 90% of the way and then hit a button and tell the robot to finish it?

09:55 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
You know, take that ball all the way to touchdown, put it down, put it down and what you would do to take it the rest of the way to the touchdown is to adjust the acoustics of the room with treatments.

10:13 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Well, let's assume, in this scenario, that you've chosen speakers that have a good off-axis response, which, by the way, it's a little hard to know if they have or not. If the manufacturer shows you their chart and there's a few out there, including ours that shows you the sound power and the off-axis response in the polar plots the ones that care about it I'm going to show it off. You choose that, and then you actually choose an acoustical treatment package that was either designed for you or that you experimented until it gave you a smooth decay.

10:43 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Oh, I see what you mean, I see what you mean At that point.

10:46 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
It's sort of funny because while at that point you could more effectively rely on an auto EQ because it's going to work better, Right, I would contend that if you've done all that work, just do a manual EQ. It doesn't take that much work to do that. And how do you do that? Well, the interesting thing is that with, oh look, who showed up? Look, it's Alessandro. It's my director of engineering, our chief speaker, designer. Hey, Alessandro, how you doing it's Scott. Hey, Alessandro, we're doing a whole live thing. We have hundreds of people watching us.

11:23
So I'm going to ask you to go play with I don't know. Your car is an iPhone something and I'm going to continue this. Okay, All right, you can stay there if it's not bothering everybody. But so that's my wide dispersion tweeter, right there. The point I was trying to go. This is only mildly distracting. The point I was trying to go and this is only mildly distracting. The point I was trying to say is, at that point, you've obviously put a lot of effort into this. Why don't you just give yourself the right to do a manual EQ, A manual?

11:52 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
EQ.

11:52 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
You're actually controlling the end of the cuisine.

11:57 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
The final seasoning, if you will, the final seasoning.

12:00 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So how do you do that? Well, first thing is you go out and spend 80 bucks or 100 bucks on a good USB driven or USB interface test mic, which you can buy from several people. You know the two common ones are either the U mic one or the Dayton audio. I'm forgetting the model number, but Dayton audio makes one that's a USB interface, oh my God. And then you plug that in your laptop download room eq wizard to give them a little bit of money for as a donation for doing a great product. You learn how to use it there's tutorials online and then you feed signals into your system, either using, uh, either a test disk and there's a bunch of different ones out there that work well or or using HDMI feed directly from your computer over into the system, and then you adjust. Now how do you adjust?

12:50
There's the road, so you either have a really sophisticated system where you have separates, where there's a decoder, there's an equalizer, there's an amplifier, or you have a system with a decoder that has built-in manual EQ and an amplifier, or you have a system that has a decoder and a digital amp that has adjustments. But wait, wait. With a number of the programs out there, there is actually utilities that allow you to go in manually and adjust bands manually. So Odyssey has a computer app, an iOS app, that allows you to go in and manually adjust the bands, not just let it do its thing on its own, going on Automatically, sound, going on automatically, this, yeah, um, with direct you can actually do a direct eq and you go okay, well, it's doing this, it's doing that.

13:43
But I really want a little more. Two kilohertz, you can change the target curve. You go and edit the target curve in direct. You go look, I want a little more of this. Go ahead and recompute the eq. You don't have to remeasure, it'll just does the thing and then it. It gets you the result. But you need to be measuring and listening and you've got to hope that your acoustic treatment package is good and your speakers are good. If all of that works out, you're going to end up with really good quality sound.

14:11 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Which, I have to say, I did thanks to you. You did, you did. So what treatments did you end up specifying in my room and why? And we have some graphics to show the plan.

14:29 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Right, not a huge amount, not a huge amount, let's see. Let's see, your room starts off with a fair amount of acoustical absorption. The whole left wall, when you draw the curtain, is a giant absorber. On the right wall you have a curtain or a drape that's also an absorber. You have a drape on the back. So you start off with a fair amount of mid-frequency absorption.

14:52
We don't need to add a whole lot more and we can calculate that and we can measure it and the measurements I did when I came to visit before the acoustic treatments were up confirmed the calculations. So now what's missing? Well, what's missing is a bit of mid-bass and low frequency absorption, because those drapes and all those things only absorb the mid frequencies and we need to absorb lower frequencies that have bigger wavelengths. So we added, on the front wall, we added these things called deco-zorbers and deco-traps, which are things that absorb low frequencies. They're thick chunks of actually polyester foam that have a wood panel that's perforated on the front. That acts a little bit as a flexural absorber and it absorbs well down into the 60 hertz region. So we added some low frequency absorption to balance out the decay time of the room.

15:50 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Right, and so we had put four on the front wall Right, two in the upper corners and two in the lower corners.

15:57 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Right. So the other thing is your room had, by the time we're all done with the first session, your room had absorption, some reflection and then no scattering. All the sound either reflected back to you or was absorbed, and I usually like some amount of scattering in a room, some amount of energy that's floating around like a nice gentle mist of sound, and so we added some diffusers on the side wall.

16:24 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
If we go to the next picture, we can see the plan. Well, this is the side wall.

16:29 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
This is the side wall, so on the right wall.

16:31 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Another decasorber down below there.

16:35 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So one thing we did, shown in maroon here, dark red, is an absorber. Even though the room was already pretty well absorbed, we added one more absorber on that right wall to get rid of that first reflection. It was pretty close to the speaker. You don't always need to get rid of first reflections. That's a fallacy.

16:56 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And a lot of people talk about that on AVS4. The first thing I did was to put an absorber at the first reflection point.

17:03 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
And it's a good idea to do it if the speaker is pretty close to that wall where the first reflection point is but not always necessary In the case of your room we listen to it. We listen to it two ways. First, we played pink noise on the right speaker and you move your head back and forth on the right speaker and you move your head back and forth if you hear a changing comb filter, something that's sort of phasing back and forth going. That means you're hearing the speaker and the reflection beating against each other got to treat it. That's a really simple test. Don't need a mirror, don't need to get you know, just listen to the effect of the reflection on pink noise coming out of the nearest speaker. So we did that. Then we also listened to two-channel stereo going.

17:43
Hey, let's listen to the sound image of the left and right speakers. Let me add the panel. In this case it was the right wall and I hope I'm doing this the right way. This would be the right wall for you guys, correct? Do you hear a difference between the panel on and off? Is the imaging better, yes or no? And we decided, yeah, that was worth having an absorber there. Now, we didn't have an absorber that day, so we used a yoga mat.

18:09
Same thing. Big chunk of foam, Big chunk of foam.

18:12 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
It was good enough for the test.

18:14 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So originally I was suggesting to put two diffuser panels that are two foot by two foot on that right wall, but then you decided to put a bookcase there.

18:27 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Media cabinets.

18:28 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Media cabinets.

18:29 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I still like physical media. I have CDs, I have Super Audio CDs, I have DVD audios and I have Blu-rays and Ultra HD Blu-rays and I wanted someplace to put them.

18:40 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
I was Blu-rays and Ultra HD Blu-rays and I wanted some place to put them.

18:43 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I was waiting for you to say Laserdisc. I do have a few of those. I don't have anything to play them on.

18:48 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
I have a spare Laserdisc player. I can get you if you want.

18:50
Oh, okay, I actually still have a bookcase, probably two or three tall, of Laserdiscs that have not been played in decades. At this point, yeah, they're all probably rotten. So you added that media cabinet there which actually by its shape tends to scatter sound out. It's not a very even scattering but it's going to scatter it. Diffuser panel above the media cabinet, which is a two-by-two panel that's got an interesting broken shape that looks a little bit like the contours of a skyline. The sound waves that hit that would get scattered out in multiple directions and fill the sound stage of the room towards the back.

19:32 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
We're going to see the picture of that in a little while. Okay, then on the back wall, which is the next graphic, we can see the same thing A diffuser, a scatterer is the blue square thing there. You had originally planned for a diffuser.

19:53 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So I originally planned for two 2x2 diffusers, media cabinet landed there. So we we just went down to one diffuser up there, uh, so that the sounds that pass you, rather than reflect back or just get, get absorbed out. Instead they're staying in the room but they're diffusing out. Now the effect of a diffuser on your perception of the size of the room is that it just it makes everything feel bigger. Why? Because instead of having these strong reflections that ping you very near, they're just small little reflections that your ear brain interpret as what happens in a bigger space. So it just increases the magnitude, or the sense of magnitude of the sound field and tends to erase how close the walls are in the room. It's a good way to go.

20:38 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And you'll notice this window here that is covered by a fairly thick drape.

20:43 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Right, so you have a big absorber in the middle of the back wall.

20:46 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yeah, right. And then the final picture of this series is the overhead view.

20:53 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Right. So originally I was thinking, you know, before we did the measurements in the room, I was thinking you would get four absorber panels on the ceiling. And then I was like, ok, all of your drapes are adding a lot of absorption. We don't want that much more absorption. So I recommended to put the two green panels that are towards the top of this image between the speakers and between the front speakers, between the front wall and the top channel speakers, to get rid of energy that's in the front of the room bouncing off the ceiling. And then I suggested putting three diffusers over your seating position but between the essentially between the top speakers and back speakers, to to again give you a bigger magnitude and better immersion character to the speakers that are trying to fill in the three-dimensional sound field.

21:46 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So, after making an initial attempt, or an initial prescription, if you will, and then doing some measurements and seeing, oh yeah, we can do something a little different, that's what happened. I assume that this kind of reiteration process is kind of normal, right.

22:05 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
I mean you it is. Yeah, it happens a lot.

22:08 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yeah, you figure something out and then you go in and you measure and you go, oh, it should be something else.

22:12 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

22:14 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Well, let's take a look at the final room. Got a few few photos for you. Here's the front wall and I even have some artwork up a little bit. Here's the front wall and I even have some artwork up a little bit so you can see the front speakers.

22:31 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Go ahead. There's a big panel that's in the middle of that. Is that a TV?

22:33 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
That's a TV. It's a 77-inch Sony A95L. Beautiful picture. What a great picture. Here's a view from the side there and you can see. I was interested. You can see the decasorbers on the front wall, upper corners and lower corners. You can see the absorber on the side wall and that's the fifth decasorber there under it. What I found interesting were these absorbers on the ceiling, which you specified as being floating, so they're actually tied to hooks in the ceiling and they're actually away from the ceiling a ways. What was the reason for that?

23:23 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So the absorbers that are on the ceiling are two inches thick, which absorbs down to 500 hertz. I'd like you to absorb down to a little bit lower. By putting an air gap behind it, you get an effectiveness down to in the case of what you got there, probably about 150 or 200 hertz, and that's really useful is to get a broadband absorption character. Now it also looks like you put some lighting behind there, right?

23:45 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Well, actually those are the can lights that were there to begin with and they look like they're behind those, but they're actually a little bit in front of them.

23:53 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Yeah, that looks cool from here though.

23:55 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yeah, it does, I agree, I agree. Okay, looking at the next picture here we can see the scatterers diffusers right, yeah, two, one above one of the media cabinets, one above the other and three on the ceiling Right, and you can see their shape. They really, whatever sound wave hits them, gets reflected in three or four different directions.

24:23 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Right.

24:29 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And so there's a look from the corner, the front corner of the room. You can see the floating clouds. You call these the absorbers.

24:39 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Yeah, the term that's often used is clouds.

24:41 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
yeah, and then the absorbers, and you can see some artwork on the wall, but you also see the big drapes which act as uh pretty good absorbers, uh, and also you can see in this picture uh, we, we actually, in addition to the two main theater seats, uh, we got three bar stools that are actually quite comfortable to sit in. So, uh, next time you and Ingrid and Alessandro come to visit, we'll have a movie night and we'll have seating for everybody. Excellent. So, and I will tell you now that I've had a chance to be in the room and listen to some stuff. It's just gorgeous, it really sounds fantastic.

25:29 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
So did you notice? This is, we didn't talk about this guys. We didn't rehearse any of this. This is live. Scott, you heard the room after I got done with an initial calibration and kind of the raw acoustics that sounded already very good. And then you went the extra step of adding not that much money in acoustics a few hundred dollars or whatever and what did you notice? Was it worth it? Was it not worth it?

25:56 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Well, I think it was worth it. I will tell you this I didn't spend a lot of time listening to critically listening before the acoustic treatments went up. I wish I had, so that I could have set a definitive difference, but I didn't. I wanted to get the treatments up as soon as possible and I have to give a shout out to Barry Willis, who is in fact in your office right now doing some work for you, who installed all those acoustic treatments right and I think he did a great job on that.

26:31
and once he did and I started listening more critically, uh, the room just sounds phenomenal, good, phenomenal, great, um myephew, if you will. The grandson of some very close friends of mine who live in town was over with his parents and grandparents and we listened, we watched the first Harry Potter film and boy, the surround sound, the immersive sound field was phenomenal, really just wonderful.

27:06
Yeah, those are my favorites During the Quidditch game. You know where they're flying all around the room. It was really impactful, really really good. I also watched Gravity, which, as you know, is one of the best Atmos mixes out there and beautiful, just great.

27:27 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
It's a very I'm going to call it very active, active being. There's a sound in front of you and then there's a sound behind there and it moves here, which is unusual, right, most film directors are really afraid of that. They want your attention focused on the screen and only sounds in front and everything else is very subdued, because they're paranoid about the sound taking your attention off the screen. Right.

27:50
But in this case it's just like nope, you're in space, she's here, he's there. The sounds follow exactly where you imagine the different actors would be or protagonists would be, and it works very, very well.

28:03 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
It does and in this room it worked really, really well, like we were talking about on the last episode, I was amazed at how the side and rear sounds actually were not coming from the ceiling, you know. They were coming from a little above ear height, you know, maybe a little higher than where they would have had the speakers actually been placed on the side walls, but the effect was still very hemispherical, shall we say.

28:34 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Great, great. The diffusers helped that a lot, by the way, those scattering devices. I should be careful about the term of art also. What do you mean? There's a semantic in acoustics of what's a diffuser, what's a scattering device? Technically, they're different.

28:52
It's just a semantic thing. These devices are all scattering devices. Their role is to have an incoming vector of sound wave that gets scattered out. The term diffuser usually means has become synonymous with a device in which the scattering process is through diffraction and they usually look like these things that have slots this way and or this way and the sound waves go in there, they rotate, and then they they at their resonance frequency, they bounce out and diffract and as they diffract they change their phase and it creates an effect of scattering. And it's just again, it's a semantic thing. So, strictly speaking, a diffuser is a thing that looks like these graded devices, which these devices you have are not.

29:46
These are much more straightforward scattering or re-reflecting devices. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. In my finding, in a small room and I don't mean to insult your room, it's not a very big space, it isn't, it's no insult whatsoever In a space like that, where you have the panels not very far from you, regular, I am finding this is, you know, a matter of of experience with this stuff I'm finding that the frac aggressive, diffraction based diffusers end up coloring the sound a little bit. They have this sort of little zippering character. If you have enough space in a bigger space, like a big recording studio or a performance hall, they work great, but in more, I would say, near field from the device, they end up coloring a sound and I generally prefer devices that are more of just a regular redirecting sound that's scattering it around, which is what you've got Right.

30:43 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I was going to say I seen these uh uh, diffraction based scattering devices in recording studios. A lot right, but they're quite a bit larger rooms, right, exactly. So well, this has been quite the adventure putting this room together and, uh, I sure appreciate your help. Is there anything else you want to add?

31:06 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
no, it was really fun working with you on this project. What I like about projects like this is that they tax creativity, tax in a positive way. What we do a lot of is these dedicated screening rooms, so the rectangular space, the ratio from the front to the side, to the top, is all predicted. The panels are about the same, speakers everything is basically follow the recipe. The challenges there are always interior design, construction, schedule, things like that, but really the electroacoustic creativity is you know, I almost want to joke. It's like building another Formula One race car. It's you know, it's whatever it's, this year's model. I've done it again. Oh my God. But working in your room was like taking a convertible Ferrari and driving it down through a motocross track and making it work.

32:01 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
I like the analogy. I like that a lot.

32:04 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
And just trying all of the different tricks to make what ultimately is a convertible media lounge environment. You know, when you're not watching a movie in there, it's it's your living space, it's your living room. And taking that and being able to make it be a living room and then close the curtain and now it's a screening room and then open the curtain, it converts back uh makes the creative juices really flow. And I'm really happy that you gave us the trust and space to like mess around with this and I'm really happy with how it turned out. The bottom line is it can be done. You can. Given enough energy and figuring it out and iterations, you can make a mixed use. Space like this work really well.

32:45 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Yes, exactly, and that's really the goal that I had in mind, other than having a nice room for myself, is to be able to show people that you don't need a perfectly proportioned and isolated room to do something good.

33:00 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Right.

33:01 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
That you can do something good if you have a less than ideal circumstance, Right If you know what you're doing or you hire someone who knows what they're doing. So I want to thank you so much for doing that, for being with me on this journey and making it come out so good, and for being on the podcast to explain it to everybody.

33:21 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Oh, my pleasure, my pleasure.

33:24 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So tell us again where everybody can find out about all the stuff you do.

33:30 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
But all y'all, all y'all, which you will find by going to wwwsonitususacom, and that's S-O-N-I-T-U-S-U-S-A, all one word com. The engineering thinking and consulting comes from our engineering group, which is PMI Engineering, which you'll find online at wwwpmiltdcom stands for Performance Media Industries Limited, and the speakers that we used in your room, which we didn't talk about much here but in the previous episode, are all made by Grimani Systems. It's my last name. You can find that under wwwgrimanitv, g-r-i-m-a-n-itv, you'll have the whole list of all the different things we make and some examples of installations, et cetera.

34:42 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
And there are some beautiful installations in there.

34:44 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
I will tell you that for sure, thank you.

34:47 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
So anyway, thank you so much again for being here on the show and helping us understand what happened and getting me my relatively close to dream home theater.

35:00 - Anthony Grimani (Guest)
Excellent, excellent. Thank you, scott.

35:02 - Scott Wilkinson (Host)
Thanks, thanks, anthony. That's Anthony Grimani here and we appreciate his work very much, and anybody who has heard his speakers knows what I'm talking about. They are phenomenal. So thanks a lot for watching. If you have a question for me, just send it along to htg at twittv and I'll answer. I may ask some questions, but I'll also answer as many as I can right here on the show, and I want to let you know also that all of the Twit shows are now available on YouTube to watch for free, but with ads. If you want to go ad-free, all you have to do is join the club. Go to twittv, slash club twit and join up for ad-free shows and access to the Discord channel and all kinds of cool stuff. So until next time geek out.