Ask the Tech Guys Episode 1972 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
Well, hey, hey, hey. It's time for as the tech guys. I'm Leo LaPorte coming up. I'm gonna show you how to put a hat on your raspberry pie. And I'm going to answer the question, why should I actually replace the ISPs cable modem with my own plus a visit with this Weekend's Space's rod pile. We'll talk about the Starship launch. Was it a success? It's all coming up. Next on Ask the Tech Guys podcasts you love from people you trust. This is is Tweet, tweet, tweet. This is Ask the Tech guys with Micah, Sergeant and Leo Laport, episode 1972, recorded Sunday, April 30th, 2023. Truthful. I believe this episode of Ask the Tech Eyes is brought to you by look at whether on a device or in the cloud. Your business data is always on the move. Minimize risk, increase visibility, and ensure compliance with lookouts Unified platform.

Visit today and buy Cash. Fly. Cash Fly is the only CDN built for throughput. Delivering rich media content up to 10 times faster than traditional delivery methods and 30% faster than other CDNs. Learn how you can get your first month Well, hey, hey, hey. How are you today? Time once again for Ask the Tech guys. I'm a tech guy, number zero. Leo Laport, your tech guy, number one. Hello, I'm Micah Sergeant. That's what Steve Jobs did by the way. He was zero at Apple cuz Wosniak said, I want to be employee number one. And Steve said, okay, then I'm employee number zero. <Laugh>. That's called Petty. Ladies. Gentlemen, hello everybody. This is a show where we talk about the weeks tech news. We talk about your questions, we give you answers. We bring in exciting guests like Rod P coming up in just a little bit to talk about.

I have to come up with a good name for for this, the Terror at Boca Chica. How about that? Huh? Ooh, how about that? I like that. He won't like that. But we'll talk about was, was the SpaceX launch a success as Elon said, oh, this'll be great to hear. Or not as the neighbors said, <laugh> and as, or was it a test as as jammer b? It's simply a test. Keep saying do not adjust your dials. <Laugh> also coming up. I thought it'd be fun. People hear about the raspberry pie. Yeah. You saw a couple of weeks ago, I brought in that seven inch 7.3 inch, seven collar e ink display, which is designed to be a hat for a raspberry pie. And I thought, well, you know what? Maybe I, a lot of people know already, but maybe it'd be fun to kind of show you the process of absolutely using raspberry pie, setting it up, what you might do with it.

So we're gonna do part one of this, which is to get the E ink, the inky display ink display from Pie Moroni working on a raspberry pie. So I'll show you the basic setup process, how you set up a raspberry pine and all that. And then and then come next week, I'll probably take me a week to get it going. But I'll show you, I'll talk about what I'm gonna do next with this. Cuz the, the idea is maybe, although I think this clock is perfect, but maybe replace this clock with an e ink display, because then

Mikah Sargent (00:03:16):
You could do whatever you want it.

Leo Laporte (00:03:17):
Yeah. Right now all we can do is the time and we can't even do updating seconds. But it'll be fun to have like, for instance, time and then I guess nobody cares about our weather <laugh> but maybe how many members of the club we have. Yeah, that

Mikah Sargent (00:03:30):
Would be

Leo Laporte (00:03:30):
Fun. Something like that, you know, updating, or maybe I'll leave this clock here and we'll have the little club thing somewhere on the set. I don't, we haven't figured out, but it's a

Mikah Sargent (00:03:39):
Start. It'll have its own camera. We'll have you,

Leo Laporte (00:03:41):
Are you on Blue Sky

Mikah Sargent (00:03:42):
Yet? I am actually. I, I got on there in the early days when there were about, I think 250 other people. And at that time when you joined Blue Sky, it automatically made you follow everybody else. Oh, there were just so few people there. It was easy. Yeah. So I started out following 250 or so other people, but it they've been rolling out a invite, links to people, invite codes to people. So I got a, a bunch of invite codes and at the same time also just trying to make it possible for more people to join. And it's kind of blown up and it's developing its own personal language as well, which has been very,

Leo Laporte (00:04:20):
They don't call 'em tweets as they do on Twitter. They don't call 'em toots as we do on masses on, they call 'em. I

Mikah Sargent (00:04:26):
Don't even know what it is right now. It keeps changing.

Leo Laporte (00:04:28):
Well, it was Skeets. Yeah,

Mikah Sargent (00:04:29):
Skeets Skeets is is the, the sort of put forth by the community option. And

Leo Laporte (00:04:34):
It's, by the way, the Blues Skye people hate it. Yeah. But that's the beauty of Blue Skys. Lemme explain what Blue Sky is. Back when Jack Dorsey was c e o at Twitter mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, he kind of at I think a couple of years ago realized, you know, there is a disadvantage to Twitter. It's centralized. One person can own it. It's one company. And, and probably at that point he was getting frustrated by the constant battle over model moderation. This was back when Trump was president and there was push and pull to, you know, you're moderating too much, you're moderating too little. You're, you know, you're shadow banning conservatives. And, and it, and I think it got to the point where you're saying, you know, no one person should be in charge of this. No one company should be in charge of this. So he put up I think it was 10 million. Let me get my wires straight. Cause it looks like I'm a robot <laugh>. Which I'm not, I don't think yet. Although there is an AI Leo, there

Mikah Sargent (00:05:24):

Leo Laporte (00:05:24):
Isn't that chat? And he's doing a bang up, John. Anyway. Oh, that's, that's worse. <Laugh>. I've made it worse. Anyway, <laugh>,

Mikah Sargent (00:05:33):
Plug in, <laugh>

Leo Laporte (00:05:35):
Pay no attention to those wires coming outta my brain. He's

Mikah Sargent (00:05:38):

Leo Laporte (00:05:39):
So I think at that time he said, let's put up $10 million to fund a foundation. It's not gonna be owned by Twitter, but a foundation called Blue Sky. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because Blue Sky Research, you know, that's the term you give for research. Well, you don't know if you're gonna make any money or it's gonna be a product, but you do it anyway to create, and this was the key, a decentralized Twitter. Twitter, no one owns a Twitter that is spread out now at the time. Those of us I'll include myself who were running Mastodon instances Yep. Said, well, well that exists. It's called Activity Pub. And that's what Mastodon is. It's one of the most confusing things about Mastodon. If you join our Mastadon instance, TWiT social tweet about social, you could follow people everywhere else on the Fed averse, which is MAs on plus many other things.

But you, but you're not, it's not centralized. Like Twitter is where they're all on the same, they're not all on Twitch social. Some people are on MAs on that social, some people are maed on ai. They're all over the place. So that's the idea. Email's federated. Maybe that's the best way to describe this. Yeah. You know, you don't have to have the same email. It used to be in the early days of email you did, but you don't have to have the same email server that everybody else does. You can be on anyone and email anybody else that's Feder called Federation. The idea that it's a single service, a unified protocol, but others, anybody can use it and anybody can enter it and become part of it. So that's how the Activity pub, which is the backend for Mastodon and another's work, that's the fed averse this blue sky thing.

They wanted to do the same thing, but they had some concerns chiefly about portability. Their main concern was, well, what if you're on a, a, a server that you don't like? What if Elon buys that server? You can't buy 'em all. What if you bought that one and you said, I don't like that one. You could move to another one. Portability means taking your account and all your followers and just easily putting them over on the other place. And so that's what this at Protocol that Blue Sky created is all about. Well, eventually they had to do a, a thing and it's very Twitter like Yes it is. Which is for some reason this week was the week. I may be a combination of Elon's Blue Check fiasco and kind of Blue Sky becoming more widely available. But this was the week that a lot of big names said, all right, that's it.

I'm moving to Blue Sky. So it kind of, it hurt my heart a little bit, I'll be honest, emotionally, because I'm all in on masin on, we run our own masin on instance, and hey, we were here back in November. You could have, you could have come over here, some of them did. People like Taylor Lawrence, the Washington Post social media columnist, kind of a, she herself is kind of a, a a a, a Twitter magnet for, for all sorts of outrage and stuff. Yes. And she's been attacked and she's attacked back and so forth. So she tried Maskin on, she said, nah, I don't like it. There's no retweets. And now she's big on Blue Sky. Right. She was the one who I think proposed skeets. Anyway, <laugh>, a lot of big names have moved over to Blue Sky now. Yeah. And so I wanted to tell you what's going on. So you understand now it's still invite only, right? Yes, it

Mikah Sargent (00:08:43):
Is. Uhhuh

Leo Laporte (00:08:43):
<Affirmative>. I only have two invites. You said you got a lot of invites.

Mikah Sargent (00:08:46):
I, yeah. Cuz I was, I think because I was on in the, such the early days, I had about five Oh. That I was able to give out. I'm, I'm down to one now though.

Leo Laporte (00:08:52):
So somebody I think on in our club gave me an invite, which Thank you. I've forgotten your name, but thank you. So there are a lot of people on it. It looks just like

Mikah Sargent (00:09:01):
Twitter. It really does.

Leo Laporte (00:09:02):
Friday they finally added blocking, which I think blocking was a big issue because you, if you can't block a troll, you're kind of stuck watching their stuff.

Mikah Sargent (00:09:09):
That was an oversight in my opinion. There's, well, there's a reason for it. Mistakes

Leo Laporte (00:09:14):
To remind everybody. This is merely a beta version. It's not even public. Right, right, right. And they know there's a lot to do. And they said, what we wanna do is we wanna get the Federation stuff right first, the distributed id, the at protocol distributed ID and the, and the dis and the Federated stuff. Right. First. Then once we know, once that's solidified, we know what it's gonna be, then we can't implement blocking until we know that. Because what, okay, so you, I block you on this site. Does it mean it blocks you on that site? What does it mean?

Mikah Sargent (00:09:43):
Right. Does it carry over? Yeah. On my new user username.

Leo Laporte (00:09:46):
So they've been, I think, quite reasonably, they've been very

Mikah Sargent (00:09:49):
Communicative. I was gonna say, that's one thing you always see them talking, and every developer that works for the company is always posting updates on what they're currently working on. They regularly communicate with the community. That has been kind of a fun part of being in it and getting to see how it's being shaped and seeing them listen to folks, which I think is super important. And I have to, even in those early days, they already were doing a good job of trying to nail the protocol where I switched from this random username that I had to my actual username that I used everywhere. And there was no problem with being able to, isn't that cool? And keep everything helpful.

Leo Laporte (00:10:27):
Yeah. My handle was originally Leo, I can't remember. And now it's Leo

Mikah Sargent (00:10:34):
Nice. So

Leo Laporte (00:10:35):
You can make it any domain you control. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which helps with verification. Right. Because in a way, if I see, if you see me and you see it's Leo, well, only Leo LaPorte controls that domain. Or you could verify that only Le Lipor controls that domain. So that means he's, it's really him. What did you make your, your

Mikah Sargent (00:10:51):
Hand? I, I actually am still with Blue I, I've changed, you just changed the name, but Yeah. So <laugh>,

Leo Laporte (00:10:55):
But you could make it, for instance, what was that name? That domain you bought

Mikah Sargent (00:10:59):
After@Chihuahua.Coffee? I, you could

Leo Laporte (00:11:01):
Make it Yeah. And it wouldn't impede the fact that you have a website called That would still work. But it would just be the handle. People would search for you on Blue Sky. Yep. Or any blues. And this is gonna be key eventually. Right now there's only one Blue Sky, but eventually there'll be many different blue skies. And so they could search for you and find you wherever you were. I think in the long run, they've solved some of the issues that Activity Pub had. There's still some concern people don't like it, that Jack Dorsey, the former c e o of Twitter is on the board. So he's out running it. He doesn't own it. No one owns it. It's a what do they call that? A it's a public service corporation. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Public Benefit Corporation. So it's a nonprofit that is dedicated to public benefit. So that's good. That's what you want. I it's gonna be something to watch. Right. Unfortunately, right now, it's looking a lot like Twitter in terms of the conversations. Cuz that's what they got. They got people leaving Twitter and immediately Taylor Lawrence got in a fight with somebody and, and this, and I'm thinking, I don't want to be the nice thing about Mass and them, cuz it's a little hard and a little geeky.

Mikah Sargent (00:12:07):
Yeah, it's true. It's

Leo Laporte (00:12:08):
Kind of like small town, you know, geek speak. Yeah. But eventually, I think it's, I suspect Blue Sky is going to take off if they do, if they continue to do everything right. Brianna Wu has just tweeted, for instance, good morning, I'm a guest on Twit later today, as is Alex Stamos. That's gonna be a good show. She says convince him that it is in his massive audience that Blue Sky's worth spending time. Now here's the thing, I can repost or quote post. So they have quote tweets, which is something that Mastodon has determinedly said. They

Mikah Sargent (00:12:38):
Said, we're not doing that.

Leo Laporte (00:12:39):
That fosters exactly the kind of un inappropriate discourse we're trying to avoid. I don't wanna allow that, but they've allowed that right away. I'll just repost it. But so this is, you know, if you are used to Twitter, I'm looking at my Nu notifications here. You're gonna, you're gonna see there's a following page and there's a What's hot page? Discovery's gonna be an is issue. I should be careful because there's because there's no moderation yet. Some of this stuff could be a little you know, I'm gonna stick with my following cause I know I'm following people who are. Okay. So, I don't know. I think it's gonna be very, very interesting. And I just wanted people to understand when they start reading about Blue Sky, cuz already it's getting coverage in mainstream media.

Mikah Sargent (00:13:24):
Why do we think that this Macedon ha has so much of what this has? Why do we think this has at least captured so much attention so quickly? I don't

Leo Laporte (00:13:35):
Know. As I said, it hurt my heart. <Laugh>. Yeah. It

Mikah Sargent (00:13:37):
Doesn't, almost doesn't make sense.

Leo Laporte (00:13:39):
I th I think it's cuz of Jack Dorsey's Association. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. There was also Mike Mann had a good piece. Today in Tector, he talks about blues, the three different distributed alternatives to Twitter. People really are seriously looking for an alternative Twitter at this point. I think they should. One is oops, I'm sorry. Lemme mute my you don't want to hear those. Mute. My notifications one is Blue Sky, one is MAs, and there's another one called oh, now I've forgotten the name. Norma or something. <Laugh> something weird. <Laugh>

Mikah Sargent (00:14:08):
Join Norma.

Leo Laporte (00:14:09):
Norma. And anyway, you could find it at, at Tector. And he's talks about why each and his, I think his contention is mass down and early on got a reputation of being complicated. It is a little weird to join. A little complicated. The r the association with Twitter reassures people the fact that it looks just like Twitter. Now. There's some disadvantages. There's no web interface. Yeah. But this is gonna be solved because it's an open source protocol. Anybody could write just like Masin on. Anybody could write their own version of this.

Mikah Sargent (00:14:40):
A special pro tip for all of you who are listening. So you get this little tip. If you go to staging dot bsk, you do get a web version of Blue Sky.

Leo Laporte (00:14:49):
Oh, I didn't know

Mikah Sargent (00:14:50):
That. So they're working on it. Oh. And so you think

Leo Laporte (00:14:52):
Staging is the place you put stuff before you release it?

Mikah Sargent (00:14:54):
Yes. And it looks even more like Twitter than the app does. <Laugh> early, early Twitter before they added all the extra. But

Leo Laporte (00:15:01):
Again, the beauty of this is because it's an open source project, it can look like anything. Yes. And so you're not gonna be, oh yeah, you're right. It this is it. Huh. See, you're way, you're much more up on the, on the sky than I am here. I'll sign in real quickly and then I'll be, I'll be, I'll be part of this Yeah. Too.

Mikah Sargent (00:15:21):
Be part of the club.

Leo Laporte (00:15:22):
So I just thought we'd, we it'd be good. Worth mentioning

Mikah Sargent (00:15:24):
It. Absolutely. And there, I mean, there are so many other competing services that are trying to make their space too. There were some Twitter developers who started what was called, what is called t2, and they very unashamedly call it t2. Like

Leo Laporte (00:15:38):

Mikah Sargent (00:15:39):
Two. Twitter two. Yes. A sort of new version of Twitter. I'm on

Leo Laporte (00:15:42):
There too. Yeah. I don't know. There's,

Mikah Sargent (00:15:44):
That's my problem right now is I don't know what's going to end up sticking. So I'm having trouble investing any of my time in any of the services past, making sure my name is there. And then occasionally when I remember them posting something, here's

Leo Laporte (00:15:57):
What I would submit. You know, I've only posted once on Blue Sky, which was Hello Blue Sky. Probably the same thing on t2. Here's what I would submit. I think we've learned a lesson because Twitter, which was, we've been all invested so much into over, you know, 12 years or something more than that. 15 years no more than that. 17 years. It was starting in 2006. Isn't ours. Right?

Mikah Sargent (00:16:21):

Leo Laporte (00:16:22):
Put so much into it and we, we, we used it for so much and we depended on it for so much. Turned out it wasn't ours that some guy with a a lot of money could buy it and do whatever he wanted with it should teach us a lesson that centralized stuff that can be owned by one person isn't ultimately where you want to put your heart and soul. Right. I mean, I say YouTube is the same problem. Right. But people, a lot of people are doing very well on YouTube. It's hard for them to go away from it. But there's still that same risk.

Mikah Sargent (00:16:48):
The folks who are doing it on TikTok that then whenever we heard 'em about a ban from the government. Yeah, that's the same problem. You put your heart and soul on it. So at

Leo Laporte (00:16:54):
Least with social, I think it's probably good to look for something decentralized. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they can't be owned by one person. That adds complexity. And it make and makes it a little more complicated to understand what you're doing. But at the same time, I think we should have learned this lesson. I would hope we've learned this lesson. Anyway, that's that's all I have to say on that subject. But I, you know, thought it'd be worth

Mikah Sargent (00:17:16):
Yeah, definitely worth talking about. Especially as folks are probably at the very least seeing the name and wondering one as blue sky. What do I need to know about that?

Leo Laporte (00:17:24):
Yeah, yeah. There we go. There we go see Alexandria or Kao Coron. But a O c says, this is my personal account. I can't post my government account there yet.

Mikah Sargent (00:17:36):
Oh. Because it's not,

Leo Laporte (00:17:37):
It's not kind of approved yet. So that's an issue. Right. it's, you know, and what is her personal account? And the courts might say, well, just cuz you say it's your personal account, you're still a representative. You know, by the way, that's in front of the Supreme Court right now. Can a pol or a poli somebody holder political office block people on social media? Is that, is that their free speech? Or they have a right to speak back to the the politician? I think they do. And does it have to be an official account? Can an unofficial count? Same problem. As you remember Donald Trump's unofficial account. Real Donald Trump, what the Supreme Court or courts did rule mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that he couldn't block people on that, that that was in effect an official account. So it's very complicated out there. Speaking of complicated, Wiki Media has announced that they are not <laugh>, they are not going to perform age checks in the uk. The UK's online safety bill requires age checks on sites. Wikipedia says, we're not gonna do that in England because it would violate our commitment. Whoops. Let me, I'm not gonna create a free BBC account. <Laugh> would violate our commitment to collect minimal data about readers and contributors. We don't want to have to collect your age. This could mean that Wikipedia is blocked in the uk.

So we shall wait and see. Whoa.

Mikah Sargent (00:19:00):
Okay. I didn't realize it was kind of a, a sort of ultimatum situation there. Potentially, potentially.

Leo Laporte (00:19:05):
Well, the government also says only services posting the high, posing the highest risk to children will need age verification. But that's kind of How

Mikah Sargent (00:19:13):
Do, how do you decide? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:19:14):
Who knows what that is? It's the eighth most visited site in the uk. The online safety bill currently before Parliament hasn't been approved yet. Places duties on tech firms to protect users from harmful or legal content. That's not the only way the UK is waving. Its, its big baton <laugh> because they've also blocked Microsoft's acquisition of Activision. It looks like they're the only country. The EU was set to approve it next month. Many other countries have approved it. The FTC has tried to block it, but the administrative court judge in August will probably overturn that. It could be that the UK gets to block the Microsoft Activision acquisition.

Mikah Sargent (00:19:54):
What does that do? Does that just stop Microsoft stops it sales or,

Leo Laporte (00:19:57):
Well, that's up to Microsoft Uhhuh. They could go ahead and not be able to do business in the uk. The UK is is walking a fine line at this point?

Mikah Sargent (00:20:06):
Yeah. It makes you wonder if you've got all these, these countries kind of sitting there and, and they've got their hand near their belt and unfortunately the UK just drew too fast and yikes. And everybody else is like, whoa. What

Leo Laporte (00:20:19):
Is like slingers, isn't it? Yeah. Some thinking that the EU is gonna maybe change their opinion. Oh,

Mikah Sargent (00:20:25):
Now that would be interesting.

Leo Laporte (00:20:26):
I think that's what the UK hopes. All right, now we have a show to do. We have many calls

Mikah Sargent (00:20:30):
And we have someone waiting on the line. Should we do

Leo Laporte (00:20:33):
Let's play his theme first to bring him on because I know that he loves, he believes in the power of Space Force. And so without further ado, I am going to play the Space Force theme to welcome our own space guy onto the show. Mr. Rod Pile. Hello Rod.

Space Force theme (00:20:55):
Hello. Space Force. Space Force. <Laugh> Space Force.

Leo Laporte (00:21:01):
This is not the official Oh boy. Space Force theme. This is the skating rink Space Force theme, but I think it's catchy.

Rod Pyle (00:21:07):
This is the Village people Virgin, right? Yeah, yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:21:10):
As P a C

Space Force Theme pt 2 (00:21:12):
Space, space War Fighting Domain. Just like the Land Air.

Rod Pyle (00:21:18):

Leo Laporte (00:21:19):
To Rod Pile, host of this week in space along with Te Mallick. And you are you are in Long Beach cuz I see the Queen Mary in behind. There it is. Huh? Yes.

Rod Pyle (00:21:31):
How about that?

Leo Laporte (00:21:31):
Is this your boat Boggy? You got a great view off your boat. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Almost as big as Queen Mary too. But in better shape. <Laugh>.

Rod Pyle (00:21:40):
They're, they're warning, they had a, a surveyor come out a couple years ago and look at the Queen carefully and he said, you know, if you guys don't put about a quarter billion into this, it's got a capsize in about five.

Leo Laporte (00:21:49):
Jeez. Holy. It's,

Rod Pyle (00:21:50):
We need to get Elon to buy the Queen Mary

Leo Laporte (00:21:52):
Us. So I sailed on that when I was 11 years old in 1967. It was his second to last sailing of the Queen Mary. And when Lisa and I went down Long Beach a couple years ago and visited I wanted to go to Cabin C 1 35, which was our cabin when I was a kid. Cuz my dad knowing he w he's not a vandal, but knowing it was the second last voyage carved his initials and date into the bunk. Oh, wow. And and they said, no, sorry, that deck has been removed. <Laugh>. Oh, <laugh>. Wow. That might be where the hole is. That's gonna sink it. Anyway. It's a, it's a, a beautiful old ship. And those were the, that's the days of the sailing ships. The sea yeah. You know, the ocean liners. And it was really, for me, it was a, a turning point in my life.

It made me love the See as I see you do. Ron, I got a big question for you. Yes. Because of course. Yes, sir. You guys immediately after the launch last week, the SpaceX launch proclaimed it as did Elon Musk a success. It's a test. They learned a lot from it. But Elon did something that is turning out to have been a bit of a mistake. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, he left out the, what is it? The flame barrier. What is the, what is the flame trench flame? The flame Trench. Trench that would in, in theory channel the explosion from the launch into safe areas. And we're seeing now the residents of Boca Chica, the nearby town being very upset that there's a lot of debris on the beach. There's been a lot of damage from this. Elon said, maybe we don't need a flame trench.

Rod Pyle (00:23:29):

Leo Laporte (00:23:30):
Yes, they do. Well,

Rod Pyle (00:23:31):
So that was a boo boo. And there's no, no denying that. So

Leo Laporte (00:23:35):
That's not a success. You're not gonna claim no <laugh> a success for this one. Like, so normally

Rod Pyle (00:23:39):
You have this diverter trench, so it's literally a big hole dug under the launchpad. And often they will have water, like in the shuttle days, they had water deluge system that would come down and also damp out the acoustic vibrations. So the thought is, if you saw the video of the rocket close up, the falcon excuse me, the, the heavy booster as it was sending a number of engines were out. And as near as anybody could tell, and of course, you know, we're still waiting for SpaceX to say something. But as far as the observers can tell, one of the very brilliant ones, by the way, is your very own John Slen, who came onto one of our two episodes we were doing about

Leo Laporte (00:24:15):
Success. John's been very defensive of this. He says this was a test. It's supposed to happen. Bad thing. Yes.

Rod Pyle (00:24:21):
Supposed to happen. And he knows a lot. But he's

Leo Laporte (00:24:24):
A space fan. Yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:24:25):
One of the things people are thinking is that part of the reason some of those engines might have been out was debris flying up from the launchpad and knocking either the nozzles off or just, or, or destroying the fuel systems or something that, that caused the engines to fail. So people know be one reason the,

Leo Laporte (00:24:42):
That the, the launch was successful, got a few minutes into it, but then started to lose. Course. And of course, you know, all, all NASA launches have had this, you know, have done this too. They can destroy it if it's gonna be a threat. Right. And so they just elected to destroy it in the air was there, but they did it over the ocean. Right. So there was no consequence to that. Is that right?

Rod Pyle (00:25:04):
There was not. However, when you see the damage to the launchpad, you can divine looking at that. If it had stayed on the pad too much longer, had that one of those legs, it looks like a milk stool had one of those legs failed and the rockets started going sideways, you could have had a very bad result. So that was not a good decision. The reason we're all declaring the launch, the test of success, it was a test launch. It was the first stage that they were really testing. They had tested the, the top stage of Starship itself a number of times and finally gotten success with that. But this was the orbital test. It didn't make or orbit obviously. But they really wanna know if that first stage could fire up 33 engine and get clear the pad and start ascending. So that part was successful. And you know, nasa, when they fly rockets, now the S SLS being a prime example, you really can't have launch failures because Congress is watching, taxpayers are watching and people get very bent if NASA makes a big mistake like that and it threatens your program, Musk doesn't do business that way. He's more like the early days of the space race where you build it, you push the button and if it blows up, you pick up the pieces and try and figure out what went wrong. Yeah. And and

Leo Laporte (00:26:12):
That's what he's doing. As, as Jammer B has said, NASA blew up quite a few rockets in the early days too. It's not unusual. Right.

Rod Pyle (00:26:19):
Yeah. And testing the engines for the Saturn five, when they were developing those big F1 engines, they blew up at least a dozen of them during test. And that's just how they learned how to do it better. And it's also worth mentioning, you know, had had must not come along when he did, you know, leaving Twitter outta the equation, please had must not come along when he did and built the Falcon nine and had the successes he had, we would be way, that's true way second place in launch right now because China about matches what SpaceX does. And SpaceX has dominated the launch industry, had incredible success with the Falcon nine. So I would never bet get this against the guy overall. I would just bet against some of his decision making. And the Flame Trench show mission was a big one.

Leo Laporte (00:27:00):

Mikah Sargent (00:27:03):
Was it his decision specifically? Because the guy's

Leo Laporte (00:27:06):
Doing Oh, that's

Mikah Sargent (00:27:06):
True. 50,000 things at once.

Leo Laporte (00:27:08):
Maybe it was Gwen's decision. How

Mikah Sargent (00:27:09):
Much was he involved in saying Yeah, the flame trench we're not doing it.

Leo Laporte (00:27:13):
He tweeted though. He's he's he did tweet Yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:27:15):

Leo Laporte (00:27:16):
A year ago. Right. we don't need it. Maybe we

Rod Pyle (00:27:19):
Shouldn't, man.

Leo Laporte (00:27:19):
Maybe we shouldn't do this. So maybe it wasn't Elon. Yeah,

Rod Pyle (00:27:23):
I think, you know, he's the ultimate ar arbiter of what happens there. Gwen's incredibly smart. Gwen Gwen Shotwell, his immediate lieutenant, the president of SpaceX. And you know, she really runs the company day to day and operationally and they're doing quite well. But, but the big decisions are made by, by Musk as far as we can tell. And I think that was both a cost saving measure and something to speed up the cadence. And they've got a lot of work to do now to repair that thing. But it's worth mention that they've got three or four more starships ready to go. Cuz one thing he's done also that nobody else has done is configure this whole thing. So these are built on an assembly line. They can turn out an engine a day, which is remarkable. It's, it takes the traditional aerospace contractors months to do the same thing and they can turn out a complete Starship top and bottom stage in a few months. So you really can move quickly once you get your bearings. But he's got a lot more testing to do because people are supposed to fly in that thing within a couple of years. And of course, NASA's plans to land on the moon depend on Starship being successful because that's what they're choosing to use as their first lander. So it's a pacing item for them as well. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:32):
Okay. So when I <laugh> when the headlines came out, you know, launch is a success. I, I I said that sounds like a little bit of spin. Yeah, but again, if you're saying all we're doing is testing the first stage, okay, the first stage made it, it was a success. But that, but it's qualified, let's say qualified success. How about we say that? Yes. Yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:28:55):
Yeah. And I, and I think he set that expectation up front as he often does. You know, he talks very aspirationally in general terms about, oh, we're gonna do this by this year and this by that year Starship is gonna launch by 2019. It didn't and so forth. But then, but

Leo Laporte (00:29:07):
He lies a lot. Let's just be, let's call it spade a bay. He lies a lot. Well,

Rod Pyle (00:29:13):
I think he truly believes that they can, if he pushes hard enough and he forgets the disconnect between him pushing and people's

Leo Laporte (00:29:19):

Rod Pyle (00:29:20):
No. Cause we're not robots.

Leo Laporte (00:29:21):
I think we've learned now that Elon lies he intentionally lies,

Rod Pyle (00:29:25):

Leo Laporte (00:29:25):
It gets attention. I I don't think there's any question now. Over time watching him he knows what he's saying and he says it because he knows A, it'll get attention and b get excitement. And he's trying to, he's a salesman. He's a good salesman. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you know what, I bought a model X with the bio weapon hazard protection <laugh>, which turned out merely to be a HEPA filter. But, and it, you know, it had the big bio weapon hazard logo on it when you fired it up. I even at the time I went, well, I guess I'm just supporting Elon's dream of saving the planet. He's a good salesman, but, but you

Rod Pyle (00:30:06):
Can make your seats fart in your car. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:30:09):
He's a good salesman. <Laugh>.

Rod Pyle (00:30:11):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:30:12):
And we'll see if

Rod Pyle (00:30:13):
He puts that into

Leo Laporte (00:30:13):

Rod Pyle (00:30:14):
And I

Leo Laporte (00:30:14):
Don't want smart salespeople cuz you know, I know some very nice ones who don't lie are salespeople, but a lot of them do. And that's part of the, and they even expect you to understand that that's part of the game. They we're gonna misrepresent stuff.

Rod Pyle (00:30:29):
Maybe we should call it creative exaggeration.

Leo Laporte (00:30:31):
Yeah. Well, actually what is, there was a, we'll put

Rod Pyle (00:30:33):
Our own spin on it.

Leo Laporte (00:30:34):
There is a term for it and that former president used

Rod Pyle (00:30:38):

Leo Laporte (00:30:38):
<Laugh>. I don't, yeah, there was a, in his in his the Art of the Deal, I think Donald Trump gave it a name and I've forgotten what it is, but it's a lie. A lie by any other name is a, is a, is a lie. It's a misrepresentation of the facts and know, knowing misrepresentation of the facts. So I don't want, I don't want E Eli to get off the hook on that. Yeah,

Rod Pyle (00:30:56):
And, and, and I should say, you know, immediately upon the conclusion of that test flight, you know, the internet just lit up with people going back and forth and he said, she said, and a lot of arm truck chair quarterbacking. And that's what tar and I addressed in Friday's episode of Student Space. Yes.

Leo Laporte (00:31:11):
Because there's some let's

Rod Pyle (00:31:12):

Leo Laporte (00:31:12):
About, yeah. Let's have some knowledge on this. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:31:15):
But you know, the facts are, it worked mostly and they've got a lot of work to do. But the thing does fly and let's, you know, bear in mind, and, and I mean my, my heart goes out to the residence Boca Chika, cuz this really is, it

Leo Laporte (00:31:27):
Was a three and a half acre wildfire that was started by it. You know, that's not

Rod Pyle (00:31:30):
Yeah. And you know, it's not, his fuel tanks are too close to the launch pad and the facility isn't big enough. That whole thing was originally planned and sold to them. Speaking of obfuscating as a place to do research on the Falcon nine. And then the next thing, they know this thing twice, the power of the Saturn five shows up. So blowing chunks of concrete all over a couple hundred acres is not the best way to make friends where you're building and launching your rockets. The problem is, you know, there's not that many places in the United States you can do this because you need to be able to go east over the ocean and you need to be far enough away from, from populated areas that you're not gonna cause substantial risk. So NASA does it in Florida, Elon's doing it down in the south of Texas.

About the only other place you could do this is either offshore on some kind of floating launch pad or out in one of the central Pacific Islands, which is where Von Braun originally wanted to launch heavy rockets out in Christmas Island. But the logistics of that are just brutal. So there aren't a lot of other places you can choose. But, but yeah, if you're a Boca Chica, on the one hand, you're getting dust and crud scattered all over your house and you're not very happy about that. On the other hand, the money that comes in and the people that descend on this here to four very quiet little berg from these launches is a godsend. So it's a mixed blessing for sure.

Leo Laporte (00:32:47):
The term by the way, that former President Trump coined for this is truthful hyperbole. Oh God. He says, the final key to the way I promote this is from the art of the deal, is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. And by the way, put, put Elon Musk Kat on here. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People wanna believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration. And this is the most important part, a very effective form of promotion. Yeah. Yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:33:27):
And it gets people to inject bleach so they don't get sick

Leo Laporte (00:33:30):
<Laugh>. But, you know, and I understand, I think Elon probably thinks in service of this goal of getting us off the planet a little tr a little hyperbole, a little truthful hyperbole is not unwarranted. And I guess I understand that, so I I won't hold it again.

Rod Pyle (00:33:45):
Yeah. And, and it's worth also remembering you know, s l s worked. It's great. We need a government moon rocket to be able to complete what we're trying to do. But it's 4.2, roughly 4.2 to 4.4 billion per flight. Starship, but it's most expensive, will probably come out to about 150 million. Cuz it was, remember this is his money. He did get some money from NASA to develop that thing as a lunar lander, but the development of the system itself is his own investment with his fellow investors. And he's not costing us money to do it. So as long as he doesn't hurt anybody, I think that's a net win.

Leo Laporte (00:34:19):
Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna <laugh>, honestly, no one lies more than a politician. So <laugh>, if you, if you have a choice between Elon and government it's the lesser of two evils perhaps. Certainly the cheaper of, of two two evils. And I, frankly, the way the government's planned this moon mission is insane. Because you have two different, it's interesting. Yeah. It's in interesting. Good thing. That's good. You're very diplomatic. There I

Rod Pyle (00:34:43):
Go. Creative hyperbole, <laugh> this

Leo Laporte (00:34:45):
Week in space is every Friday.

Rod Pyle (00:34:49):
Yes, sir. Tell us. We're having a blast. Thanks to you guys. Well, we we're, we're keeping up with the, with the pace. Tars turned out to be a wonderful partner,

Leo Laporte (00:34:58):
Space.Com editor in chief

Rod Pyle (00:35:00):

Leo Laporte (00:35:00):
And has so much content. In fact, they were there at the launch. Yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:35:04):
Yes, they

Leo Laporte (00:35:04):
Were. Yeah. So there's some really great, and he

Rod Pyle (00:35:06):
Giggled through the whole thing. If you saw the recording. He did. Oh yeah. He just, he said, I couldn't control myself, you know, it was so cool. And you know, I never saw a Saturn five launch. I saw a number of shuttle launches. I've seen smaller rockets, but have a chance to go see this thing. He said, it was just

Leo Laporte (00:35:21):
Transfer. You can feel it. I mean, envious. And he's mi he's miles away. He's not even that close to it. Five

Rod Pyle (00:35:27):

Leo Laporte (00:35:28):
You're, you're, you feel it in your chest. It's incredible. Yeah.

Rod Pyle (00:35:32):
And you wanna be five miles away because something with that much energy Yes. Contained inside that tank, what we've learned the equivalent of a small nuclear weapon,

Leo Laporte (00:35:39):
Especially without a inver chain close. You definitely want be <laugh>.

Rod Pyle (00:35:42):
Well, yes,

Leo Laporte (00:35:44):
It's possible.

Rod Pyle (00:35:45):
<Laugh>, there was some conjecture by the way, you know, there car two that got mangled by chunks of concrete. He actually, he tark actually postulated just from stuff he heard on the ground near near Boca Chica that there might have been some deliberation and let's park this old car there and see what happens. But yeah, a couple of cars

Leo Laporte (00:36:05):
Got an SUV guy,

Rod Pyle (00:36:06):
But they were parked too close.

Leo Laporte (00:36:07):
Yeah, don't park close. They were way too close. Next time,

Rod Pyle (00:36:09):
You know better. Five miles. And that's why NASA keeps everybody at least three miles from any launch, because, you know, they don't want the liability.

Leo Laporte (00:36:16):
All right, John, go ahead. What? John's going crazy here. You don't like it that

John! (00:36:21):
It was a camera. There was a, they knew that they

Leo Laporte (00:36:24):
Were closed. There were cameras put there so they could catch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And microphones and stuff. Yeah. And they knew they'd be blown up. And

John! (00:36:29):
There were other vehicles there didn't get hit by chunks of concrete. They just got unlucky.

Leo Laporte (00:36:34):
Here's the good news. Many cars did not get crushed by the launch <laugh>. This is true. In fact, the va, let's put it this way, the vast majority of cars, of cars not get crushed

Rod Pyle (00:36:45):
By the, and most homes did not get their windows shattered. So, you know, let's

Leo Laporte (00:36:49):
Call that a Where do we stand? Yeah. Most. Yes. Where do we stand at? There's another Falcon Heavy lunch tonight, I believe. Yeah. where do we stand? I mean, we're moving this, I mean, that's amazing. We're moving very quickly. What is the time frame right now you think

Rod Pyle (00:37:03):
For Starship?

Leo Laporte (00:37:04):

Rod Pyle (00:37:07):

Leo Laporte (00:37:07):
Go to the moon.

Rod Pyle (00:37:07):
It depends. Well, so the f a a said, hold your horses. You know, we gave you a single launch license, we have to renew it. We're gonna look into this. So that could take weeks or months. It'll take a matter of months probably to replace the repair, the launchpad. He even talked about pulling the one he is building out at Florida Kennedy Space Center out to put it up in Texas. That would be a big do. But one way or the other that's gotta be addressed. And then they've gotta finish prepping one of the three or four other star ships. They've got ready to go. And they have more, by the way, in their inventory that are considered out of date. But those could always be retrofitted and flown as well. So he could start launching them in a matter of months and develop quite a flight cadence, which is what he's, he's gonna need to get it right in terms of the moon landing. We've got this to deal with because we need this as the lander, a version of it anyway. And we have the EVA suits to deal with, which are under development now by a company called Axiom. So there's a lot of steps. So 2027, I'm guessing.

Leo Laporte (00:38:06):
2027 says Rod pile, host of this weekend space editor-in-chief of Ad Astra Magazine, put a space Have this here space every timer. Play that again. Every timer, we're gonna have a new Space Force theme. Hope, find enough renditions of Space Force. I'm gonna

Rod Pyle (00:38:26):
Send you one that somebody tried to submit that I like. Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:38:29):
Okay. Thank you Ron. I love this week. Thank you. In space. Everybody should subscribe. Scum Saving the Earth from American Scum. Look out. Here we come. Space Force. Thank you. Team America. Team America, <laugh>. Thank you Rod. It's great to have you. Take care. Take care so much. We are asked the tech guys, Leo, to Port Micah. Sergeant, you haven't had a chance to ask a thing, so we're gonna get to some questions. Let's do it. <Laugh> in just a bit. We got, we we gotta do that. And by the way, I should say it's, I know it's hard to call. We, the, the, the, right now the way we're doing is call TWiT tv, which launches a Zoom thing. You could do it on your phone, you could do it on your computer. But I noticed that we're not getting a huge number of calls.

So we're talking about we're gonna get phone number. We're very close's. Getting a phone number. Yeah. So that you can just use your phone like you did on the old radio show. I think that will make a big difference. So those of you who are on the line, hang on the line. We're gonna get to your calls in just a little bit and watch in weeks to come, we're gonna get a phone number. In the meanwhile, if you don't want to go to call, do You can email atg Yeah, ask the tech guys. It's pretty busy there, so thank you. We're getting a lot of good emails. Yeah, and I think it's because it's a little easier if you wanna record a video, that's also a, a great thing to do. Our show today brought to you by Look Out, look Out <laugh>, look out.

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Mikah Sargent (00:42:31):
That. In fact, we've got a great video question that comes in. Jeremy from Iowa who wrote in, or actually I guess videoed in after Scott Wilkinson joined me as a co-host here on the show a couple of weeks ago. So let's hear from Jeremy from Iowa.

Caller Jeremy (00:42:50):
Hi guys, this is Jeremy in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm primarily a podcast listener, so rather than trying to call in live, I thought I'd send a video question. Last week on the show, Scott Wilkinson was talking about calibrating Leo's new TV and mentioned that the center channel was too high after switching from a 100 inch projection to, I believe it was a 77 inch cutie hole lead. That was counterintuitive because I would think if the center of the pitcher was in the same location, the bottom of the smaller screen would be higher making the center channel too low. Maybe I'm mistaken on that assumption, but I definitely understand needing to have the center channel as close to the bottom of the screen as possible. So it was kind of good timing for project I'm working on here. So in my front room,

Leo Laporte (00:43:41):
Oh nice.

Caller Jeremy (00:43:42):
I recently purchased a Samsung Frame TV and I'm pairing it with a 15 year old Sony 5.1 system. But I've got the center channel just sitting on the receiver in that little cubby. For right now, I was thinking I'd at least set it on top of the console, which is about six inches below the bottom of the tv, wondering if it would be even better to mount the center channel to the wall closer to the tv or if top of the console is good enough. I am planning to mount the left and right speakers to the wall beside the tv. I'm thinking I'll probably have the tops of those speakers even with the top of the tv, but was curious if you had any guidelines to follow on that. And then the last part of the question got the subwoofer just sitting there in the corner. I am planning to pull up the baseboard and run wires to the back for the rear speakers that I'll put up in the corner. And thinking as long as I'm at it, I might as well move the subwoofer back there as well. Don't think the placement of that is critical since it's such a low frequency. But wondering if you had any thoughts on that as well.

Leo Laporte (00:44:56):
Oh, great question. Yeah, indeed. And I know a little bit about this. So one thing that confused you is you assumed that I was like, you gonna place the center channel below the speaker? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> below the tv. It's actually above it. So it was, it was right above the edge of the a hundred inch screen. But as soon as I replaced that with a smaller screen, the <laugh>, there's a difference. Now there's a reason for that. At least I didn't want any wires, so we actually had to put wires in the wall and moving that speaker down would require a significant amount of messing around that I didn't want to do. Especially since at some point we'll probably get a bigger screen again. Right. The screens are, are gonna get bigger. The other thing I I have to point out is I don't notice a difference, so Oh, that's good.

Yeah. So it's not like suddenly the voices are coming from up there, <laugh> and this is why it doesn't really matter if you put the center speaker above or below your ears are gonna adjust and your brain is gonna adjust and it's gonna say, oh yeah, that's the voice and it's coming from that guy's mouth. The speaker is never near the mouth if you think about it. Right, right. Yeah. The guy's in the middle of the screen talking ba ba ba the speaker's down here. Yeah, it's not. So even though there's a now a couple more feet than there probably should be for the center speaker above my screen. Excuse me. I don't notice any difference at all. It sounds fine to me. So I, I and I, nobody said anything. In fact, you were in there. I don't know, I can't remember if I showed it to you.

Yeah, you did. And no, I couldn't tell the difference. I wondered if there was going to be, because you do have, it's a, a lot of notice above it. Well, it's ugly. I mean that's the biggest downside. And I should also point out to our our emailer. You should probably turn your couch <laugh> cause you're gonna be looking off your shoulder and that's gonna screw it all up. Here's the placement situation. You really do want the left and right speakers to be to the left and the right of screen, but I don't think it matters how close they are either. In fact, it may be that you want more stereo separation so you place them farther apart than Oh, than the screen. Right. Okay. Yeah. So you're not worried about left and right being close to the screen. Similarly, center channel can be above or below obviously for aesthetics. It should be somewhere that looks, you know, that's not annoying like our, our center channel. But I don't think from sound point of view it makes that much difference. Not like you say, well why is his voice coming from the rafters? <Laugh>?

Mikah Sargent (00:47:31):
Yeah. I was honestly surprised. I thought it would echo up because you've got a lot of space up there. Yeah. But I never noticed anything like that. It sounded. Now

Leo Laporte (00:47:39):
We also, and Scott didn't say this, he was very kind, but we've also misplaced our surrounds.

Mikah Sargent (00:47:44):

Leo Laporte (00:47:45):
Your surrounds are not supposed to be behind you. Your spouse surrounds are basically supposed to be at ear level, roughly s at ear where your ears would be or slightly in front of.

Mikah Sargent (00:47:54):
So if you're sitting on a sofa, it would be on the left and right sides of you. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:47:57):
Maybe slightly ahead of you, but not much. Okay. Okay. You can look at speaker placement guides. For instance, you know, they will say there should be a 60 degree angle between the left <laugh>.

Mikah Sargent (00:48:08):
Oh my. It's all that you can get. Very, they

Leo Laporte (00:48:10):
Get very spirit. I don't think it makes that much difference. So our surrounds, again, it's because of the nature of the room and where we could put wires in the wall are, are a little farther ahead of the mm-hmm. <Affirmative> sofa doesn't bother me. In fact, it works so well that sometimes I'll go, what do you what <laugh>? And then it turns out it wasn't anybody behind

Mikah Sargent (00:48:28):
Behind me in the kitchen talking. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:48:29):
Yeah. I often hear <laugh>. It's really, it's, it's happened to us many times that Lisa said there's somebody at the door and saying n no. That's just the stalker. Who's about to strangle the the hero?

Mikah Sargent (00:48:43):
Oh, and the, yeah. In the movie, watching movie, yeah. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:48:46):
So I think you can get a little fussy about speakers. Now, the subor for, he's right. Also Doesn, doesn't matter where the sub is. I think sometimes you wanna put the sub somewhere where it's gonna get some, depends how much bass you like, but again, get some benefit from bouncing off the walls. So sometimes I like to put a sub in a corner. Some people want the sub under the sofa so their butt vibrates. That's all up to you.

Mikah Sargent (00:49:09):
<Laugh>. It's whatever floats your boat. But

Leo Laporte (00:49:10):
You're right that the ear is better with high better directional, with high frequency sounds, low frequency sounds, doesn't really matter where they are in the room. I,

Mikah Sargent (00:49:19):
I wanna say something that probably is going to upset some people. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:49:23):

Mikah Sargent (00:49:24):
I don't really get anything from a subwoofer. I have, it adds nothing to my life.

Leo Laporte (00:49:33):
You would, I would think, cuz I, you like you like dance music, don't you? I

Mikah Sargent (00:49:37):
Do. You like

Leo Laporte (00:49:38):
Music with a good solid bass.

Mikah Sargent (00:49:40):
A good solid bass. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:49:41):
You're like Megan, what's her name? Megan Trainor. <Laugh>. It's all about the bass.

Mikah Sargent (00:49:44):
Bass, you'd think, right. I guess it's al. So no matter where you place it that's what's fascinating to me is that it doesn't really, from what we're kind of hearing here, yes, there's a, there's an optimal place to place. You're talking about sort of bouncing off areas, but it's almost seems like an afterthought in a lot of people's setups. Be I And that's just because it can go anywhere because the frequencies are so low. I, I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand the subwoofer. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:50:11):
Well get a nice, you can't cuz you're in an apartment. Exactly. It's part of the problem's. The thing. Yeah. You can't really, but when you move into your own house mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and you can really get some good bass, the problem is you don't want the bass to overwhelm the music either. Right? Right. You don't want to hear the bass. You wanna say, oh wow, that's that bass is really loud. Is there an elephant in here? <Laugh>, you want it to magically mix with the music so the music sounds richer and fuller. So it, to some degree, you're right. And if you have good speakers, I'm sure you do. The bass isn't gonna be as important. So, you know, the sub isn't gonna be as important, but the sub gets those really low frequencies. And if you want a full range stereo sound, you can spend a lot of time adjusting the, the, the room position.

I wouldn't worry so much about it. I mean, I would, if, you know, since you say you're gonna put it on top, I would put it on top. Yeah. Closer to the screen is absolutely, probably a better idea. There are some TVs now, Samsung and Sony, I think make TVs that the speakers are behind the screen and they actually go through the screen. I can't see any difference, to be honest. And I've list, I've, we at ces, Scott and I listened to a screen that had speakers behind the screen, and I can't, it didn't seem like the center channel was more attuned to the voice than it was when it was slightly above it. I, I don't think it makes it much difference. It's aesthetically appalling. Yeah. And I, and I feel bad about it. So that's all right. Because I'm gonna use this excuse to get a really big screen someday. There you go, honey. Wouldn't it be nice to have a screen that goes all the way up to the center channel,

Mikah Sargent (00:51:37):
<Laugh> now mounting on the walls instead of using those what looks, kind of like isolating stands, you think it's gonna be better to have them mounted on the wall?

Leo Laporte (00:51:46):
No, I think the isolated stands will be better. But you often don't want speakers too close to the wall. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But again, it, it really, it's, it's

Mikah Sargent (00:51:52):
All subtle.

Leo Laporte (00:51:53):
Right? It's very subtle. Yeah. I'm, I'm just not sure what how important it is to him given that his sofa <laugh> is facing that way and the TV is that way. Maybe he plans to move the sofa. I certainly hope. Well, so he said my number one recommendation <laugh> would be face the tv.

Mikah Sargent (00:52:12):
Somebody said it looked like that was part of a sectional that wrapped around

Leo Laporte (00:52:15):
Even more, maybe. But then his, then he's sitting too. That screen is way too, too far small. Yeah. For the distance. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you want a screen that's gonna almost fill your views. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It's very complicated to get the ideal. And somebody like Scott, who's a perfectionist, is gonna have a different point of view than somebody who has to live in the real world. <Laugh>. Yeah. The real world. Anyway, that's a great, we have, it's a, it's a great question. There are, if you Google it, there are lots of articles. Here's one from cnet, how to position your speakers perfectly. This is from 12 years ago. But you know what? Ears haven't changed in 12 years. So you know, you could look at this, but this is where you're gonna start to say, oh, you know, do I really need 60 degrees of separation from my left and right? Do I need to have my speakers between one and 2.2 meters from the wall? Do the subs have to be at least 30 centimeters from the corner? By the way he suggests, which I agree. Don't put it in the center of the wall. Put it in a corner. I feel

Mikah Sargent (00:53:13):
Like they are eye source too. Maybe that's the other

Leo Laporte (00:53:16):
Thing. Oh, they're ugly as heck. Yeah. Cause it's just a big box. A big

Mikah Sargent (00:53:19):
Box. I can't put a plant on top of it. It'll probably kill the plant.

Leo Laporte (00:53:22):
<Laugh>. the other thing I would suggest is probably a good idea to get your tv. His TV looked a little high. Mm-Hmm. you don't want to be looking up at your tv. It is not good for your neck. You don't wanna kind be looking straight across. If you can lower the tv, just

Mikah Sargent (00:53:36):
Or raise the

Leo Laporte (00:53:37):
Sofa. <Laugh>, raise the sofa, put everything up on bricks, on Stand <laugh>. That way you can put the sub underneath the sofa. There you go. You just need a little

Mikah Sargent (00:53:44):
Ladder. There'll be brick dust everywhere for this song. It'll be great. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:53:47):
It'll be great. Got another email

Mikah Sargent (00:53:50):
For us. I do. Yes. and I love this question. Oh, oh, we also have a caller and, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's do the email. So this is from Tony. Tony writes in, I am renting my cable modem from Cox, and it does a decent job, but I hooked up an Orbi six to it. And I like using the Orbi mesh better. I don't see much, if any interference, should I take the plunge and just buy my own modem? My biggest concern is that if I have an internet connection problem, they will blame my modem and not their own connectivity. Other than saving the $10 a month for the rental. Is there any other advantage? Thanks, Tony. And I love this question, Tony, because this is actually, when I first made the move from using a modem from the company to getting my own, I thought, okay, anytime I ever have a problem, they're just going to say, well, you bought your own hired layer.

So clearly that's the issue. <Laugh>. It has been my experience though. They don't do that. They don't do that. Oh, that's, and I was shocked. I mean, they'll always tell you, have you tried power cycling the modem? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and they'll even send that little signal through that will automatically power cycle your modem. But they've never gone as, and I've had now four different ISPs and I have genuinely never had that as a problem. I was concerned it would be, but it was not for me, which was great. As Leo has often talked about before, Tony, I think the, the biggest thing here, the, the advantage of having your own modem is a, the portability factor. If you ever do plan on moving somewhere else, you've got that modem you can take with you. But b and I think the most important thing is just as much control as you can possibly have.

Let the I S P B, the way that you get internet into your home, but then at that point you get to be in control of how it's working, what it's doing, and have more knowledge kind of about the situation, which I have found often leads to me being able to fix problems without having to contact the I S P. And that has been a big help because then there are less of those frustrating calls where they're telling you to do the things you already know how to do. It's it end, it ends up being, yeah, it's quite a bit of money that you save. And I, what I also like is if you're going with the the ISPs hardware, there are times where you will get a device that belong to someone else. And while they're in the process of maybe updating the hardware to newer hardware, you're less likely to get that newer hardware if you're stuck with the old stuff. So, as docsis, which I think is currently at 3.1, maybe 3.2 at this point, which is sort of the modem's method of sending and receiving connection and translating that connection into something that can be used for your internet. As that improves, if you've bought your own most recent modem, you've got, you know, you've got the best technology possible, and then you can say no, I've got ducks this 3.1. That's not what the problem is here.

Leo Laporte (00:56:43):
<Laugh>. So they want you to have docx is three, one because they, it gives them more control over what you're doing too. Oh, does it? So, yeah. I think I have to say I've been really hard on cable companies and ISPs in general for a long time. And I, I'm gonna say that I think they're getting better. I think speeds are going up mm-hmm. <Affirmative> across the board. And I think Reliability's gone up. And I think ISPs are not as draconian as they used to be. They've had

Mikah Sargent (00:57:10):
A lot of focus from the government, and I think that has helped that, what is it? The FCC that had the speed test thing that, where That's right. You would get the app, you could do a speed test. And so there's been focus on that to see that companies are holding up to the speeds that they say they will. And then we've seen groups making it so that you don't, you talked about the rule where if you're not renting the hardware, then you can't be charged for it. And anytime a an organization you know, it's, it's kind of bigger than one company. But ISPs as a whole, anytime some sort of group gets focus and there's regulation coming down the pipe, they will often straighten up and fly, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that's my mm-hmm. <Affirmative> grandpa used to start

Leo Laporte (00:57:52):
Straighten up and fly a song. Did you know that? Oh, I didn't know

Mikah Sargent (00:57:55):
That was a

Leo Laporte (00:57:55):
Song. Yeah. That's where it came from.

Mikah Sargent (00:57:57):
<Laugh>. And so I'm not surprised.

Leo Laporte (00:57:58):
Grandpa Zero Migrant. Yeah, exactly.

Mikah Sargent (00:58:00):
Yeah. I'm not surprised to see these companies making that choice to kind of try to do right by their customers because they don't want to face greater stricter regulations than they already have. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:58:12):
Maybe they also have realized that I hope they have. It's, it actually works pretty well if you make customers happy, <laugh>. It's just a weird thing. But they, they seem to stay customers a little bit longer. All right. We do have now a lot of raised hands. Welcome. It's great to have you all. Let's start with Nick.

Mikah Sargent (00:58:26):
Wait, wait. Arizona's on everyone. Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:58:28):
Nevermind. Hold on, Nick, we'll be right with you. Arizona. Lou. Hello, Lou. You're wearing your prison orange today. That's good.

Caller Lou (00:58:36):
Can you hear me? We

Leo Laporte (00:58:37):
Can. Yes, I can.

Caller Lou (00:58:39):
Well, that's amazing because I went to the dark side. Oh, my Windows computer quit. But all you said about the M two I

Leo Laporte (00:58:51):
That's the good side. You went to the bright side, the light side, the Macintosh.

Caller Lou (00:58:56):
But this so people will know that it's not easy to get through. I tried to call you when I was in Prague on a tour.

Leo Laporte (00:59:03):
Oh, wow. Indiana.

Caller Lou (00:59:05):
And then last weekend I tried to get to you from Atlanta, Georgia, and my phone and my little toy computer were not working <laugh>. But the next day I did drive in a Tesla with my cousin down to south Padre Island and watched

Leo Laporte (00:59:25):

Caller Lou (00:59:25):
Sit on the launch

Leo Laporte (00:59:27):
Pad. Oh, you didn't get to see it.

Caller Lou (00:59:29):
And that's all it did.

Leo Laporte (00:59:31):

Caller Lou (00:59:32):
But the next day we did did back up at the, in Atlanta, we did see the launch of the SpaceX and saw the rapid unscheduled disassembly.

Leo Laporte (00:59:45):
<Laugh> <laugh>. You've been all over the place since we've talked last Lou. That's kind of amazing. Yeah. How was Prague? Did you enjoy Prague?

Caller Lou (00:59:55):
Yeah. I did a little, a little show there and I did about three or four shows in Vienna and a show in Slavia, the capital of Slovakia.

Leo Laporte (01:00:07):
I'm, I'm so impressed. And you did 'em in English, I presume.

Caller Lou (01:00:10):
Yes. Yes. But they

Leo Laporte (01:00:11):
All speak English so. Well, this is the thing that's so embarrassing when you travel, everybody speaks several languages, English being one of them. And comics can actually work in Europe in English because people laugh. They get the, they know the language well enough to get the jokes.

Caller Lou (01:00:27):
Yep, yep.

Leo Laporte (01:00:29):
Blows me away. My

Caller Lou (01:00:30):
Question. Yeah. My question is about moving to the dark side, or as you said, <laugh>, you're spend the bright

Leo Laporte (01:00:38):
On Yeah. Arizona by the way, for Arizona Lou's, if you wanna follow him and go ahead. I'm

Caller Lou (01:00:45):
Emphasizing on this year's tour. I'm, I'm in Florida. I'm emphasizing Florida, and I'm doing there's

Leo Laporte (01:00:52):
A lot of comedy a lot of comedy coming outta Florida lately. You should be that should be good. Ripe for material.

Caller Lou (01:00:59):

Leo Laporte (01:01:00):
<Laugh> <laugh>.

Caller Lou (01:01:02):
What should I know that I don't know about the Mac? Things that I know I don't know. Or things like a F T P client or server and a text editor for web and coding. And there was something else I needed, but I don't remember what

Leo Laporte (01:01:23):
It was. All right. We're gonna, we're gonna answer both those questions. Yes. So I'm gonna tell him get BB edit. Yes. And I was going to tell him get transmit. I agree. Panic software does transmit, it's kind of the canonical, the classic FTP client. And it does even more than that if you ever end up needing it too. But yes. Ftp, I should also point out though, you have FTP built into the Mac. Yes. Because you have a command line, Lou, and if you know how to use a command line uhhuh you can use FTP on the command line. Just fine. So, but if you want a graphical user interface to ftp, transmit is easily the best. It's one of the few that's kept up today, cuz FTP isn't, you know, the hot happening protocol, it used to be

Caller Lou (01:02:08):
Just explain to the people that don't know what's going on. That's the way you get your files and pages uploaded to the internet. To the ftp,

Leo Laporte (01:02:17):
Yeah. File transfer protocol. Yep. and it, you know, so that's a little old school. Oh, now Mike B is saying that FTP has been removed to terminal, but it does support s ftp, which is actually what you should be using. Right. And that's what Transmit uses is Secure ftp. Now, BB edit there is, you can use it for free. So that's the first thing to know. You don't have to pay for it. And probably everything you need will be available in the free edition. I think at BB it might even have FTP built. Have you

Caller Lou (01:02:46):
Heard of FileZilla?

Leo Laporte (01:02:48):
Yeah, FileZilla is fine. Nothing wrong with FileZilla. You

Caller Lou (01:02:52):
Don't sound excited about

Leo Laporte (01:02:53):
It. No, it's good.

Mikah Sargent (01:02:54):
Yeah, it's fine. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:02:56):
That's an open source solution. And so I'm a big fan of it for that reason. Maybe a little more complicated to use, but if you're comfortable with it, it actually may not be because it may look more, I haven't

Caller Lou (01:03:09):
Tried it yet.

Leo Laporte (01:03:09):
Yeah, I'll get it. It's free. So it's free and it's cross-platform, Mac, windows, and Linux. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah, file Zillow is fine. It's, I would say the user interface, as with often is the case with open source projects is maybe a little obscure, but you, you know, if you're using ftp, you probably used to that anyway. You probably would be a good choice for you. Certainly look at that first since it's free. Sure. panics Transmit is not BB Edit is free to use. And then there's a paid tier. I'm betting BB Edit has ftp. I wouldn't, yeah,

Mikah Sargent (01:03:43):
I would think so.

Leo Laporte (01:03:44):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So

Caller Lou (01:03:46):
What about the the editing? The I use Notepad Plus Plus.

Leo Laporte (01:03:51):
Yeah. BB edit is better. Yeah.

Mikah Sargent (01:03:53):
BB edit is the choice there. So yeah, mine was for your TP question. And BB Edit is your text editor for h from

Leo Laporte (01:04:00):
Bare Okay. And actually, BB Edit does support FTP and SFTP right in natively in it. So it might be the answer to both questions. You can work on your text. It's, it was what everybody used for websites in the Mac in the early days, but it's still the premier text editor and it treats an SFTP site just like a local file site. So once you've set up the FTP with a password and log and all that stuff, you just save it and it'll be just like you're saving it to locally. It's really great. Yeah, of

Caller Lou (01:04:33):
Course. I like to test it several times before I send it

Leo Laporte (01:04:36):
Course to the world. Of course. So b bb edit supports SFTP as well as ftp, which is a nice feature. BB edit's really great. It's

Mikah Sargent (01:04:44):
Fantastic feature packed. And it'll do, even if you start to get more curious about other stuff, it'll do, it'll support a lot of that as well.

Leo Laporte (01:04:52):
It's, you do have a text editor a notepad like text editor built into the Mac, which is text edit, but it saves his rich text format by default. So, yeah.

Caller Lou (01:05:01):
And it probably doesn't cutter code the tag.

Leo Laporte (01:05:04):
Oh, it doesn't do any of that. No, no, no, no, no. BB edit will, if you want another choice that's free for Microsoft vs. Code is available on the Mac platform as well as Windows and Linux. It's free. And it also does that color coding for H T M L. And it, yeah, it supports HTP as FTP as well to come to think of it. So VS. Code, or which is short for Visual Studio Code is Microsoft's quasi open source code editor. I say quasi because Yes, part of it's open source, but you wanna do anything with it. You're gonna <laugh> you're gonna need to use the close source part. It's not Visual Studio, it's Visual Studio Code. Visual Studio's not free, but you can get vs code from visual

Caller Lou (01:05:50):
Okay. Well, hey, I appreciate it. And I want to give you greetings from north of Miami, Florida.

Leo Laporte (01:05:57):

Caller Lou (01:05:58):
Wednesday. I'll be doing a show for veterans in Key West Thursday, key Largo, and Friday Homestead Florida. And then I'll be nice up for the, you can see my schedule online.

Leo Laporte (01:06:09):
Yeah. Arizona and he donates all proceeds to the Alzheimer's Foundation, which is, which is really a nice thing to do.

Caller Lou (01:06:19):
If I remember

Leo Laporte (01:06:20):
<Laugh>. Thank you Arizona. Lou, always a pleasure to talk to you, Lou. Have a great, I congratulations on what must have been an amazing tour. That's what a success. Yeah, that's great. Hey,

Caller Lou (01:06:32):
Hey, thanks a lot you guys. You're

Leo Laporte (01:06:33):
Great. Take care. Bye Lou. Bye Balu. Wow. Bye Lou. I'm impressed. I know. Wow. Traveling all over doing comedy shows. He's a traveling guy. Let's do another call and then I will cross over and show you some raspberry. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Pie. Trix Kelly is on the line. Kelly, welcome to Ask the tech guys. This is why we don't have, have a clock with seconds on here. Yeah. <laugh>, because then when we do the edit, you won't notice. Hi guys. Hey Kelly. Hey Kelly. Welcome. Join us in the star gate, if you will.

Caller Kelly (01:07:06):
<Laugh>, no video.

Leo Laporte (01:07:07):
What's up? Just audio. No video. Okay. That's fine. We don't mind. We'll just leave this up, right? Yeah,

Caller Kelly (01:07:12):
You bet. You bet. Thank you. Sure. Hey, hey, guys. I, I'm, I'm, I'm a big I'm a big history fan and Leo, one of the things I appreciate about your network is, is that, you know, it has a history of all your shows that I can go and reflect and watch and everything. Thank you. And I also watched the, I watched the old Stewart Cha's

Leo Laporte (01:07:32):
Computer Chronicles. Yeah.

Caller Kelly (01:07:35):
Yeah. The computer Chronicles and it's just such a joy to reminisce and remember and everything like that. You're

Leo Laporte (01:07:43):
Obviously been around a while cuz I, Micah probably doesn't remember.

Caller Kelly (01:07:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah. I was kind of refreshing myself on the the KDE story and everything. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:07:52):
Gary Kde. Yeah. Who created the first duss for PCs? Dr. Do, yeah. Digital

Caller Kelly (01:07:58):
Research. Yeah. The Man who could have been Bill Gates. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:08:01):
<Laugh>. He, the, the, the war goes, although I think some deny it that when when IBM came calling the first place they went was digital Resource Research down in Monterey. But Gary was up in his private plane and couldn't be bothered to meet with them, so they went on up to Seattle and made a deal with Bill Gates and stuff. Oh, I don't think that's exactly, I think that might be apocryphal, but it's a great story. Anyway. Yeah. And he did miss that, but Yeah.

Caller Kelly (01:08:25):
But thank you for your rich history and everything, and I always watched the Stewart Cha episode that you did with triangulation and everything just to remember. And Stewart's

Leo Laporte (01:08:35):
A legend. Yeah. My,

Caller Kelly (01:08:36):
Yeah. My, my my question for you is, is that, can you give me any kind of recommendations on movies or documentaries that you enjoy that kind of bring nostalgia back to computers and stuff? I'll tell you, I could watch, I'll tell

Leo Laporte (01:08:50):
You, I'll tell you one I just watched last night. It's on Apple TV plus it's Tetris. Oh yeah. What a great, now at first I thought, this is terrible. I'm watching it. It's the story of Tetris and you and I, I think you probably remember this as well as I do when Tetris first emerged, it was the most addictive game ever. But it emerged in a weird way. It was on the PC and then it was on an arcade. And then it was the big hit was when it got onto the Game. Boy, the story of how it got there is insane. It is wild. And they've made a really good movie about Hank Rogers, who was a a programmer, a coder. He'd grown up in the Holland of Indonesian background, lived in the United States, met his wife and married in Hawaii, then moved to Japan with her cuz she was Japanese.

And coded one of the very early Japanese video games, PC video games. But then went to CES and saw Tetris. And as a coder, as a gamer, as a guy who knew games, he said, this is a, this is huge. And goes on an amazing quest ending up in Soviet, in the Soviet Union to find the guy who wrote it, Alexi pov and to secure the rights for it. And it is quite a story. So that is one I highly recommend. I think just came out on Apple tv. I interviewed Alexi Pajitnov, the creator of Tetris. Some years later, he Hank made enough money, got him to, got him out of the Soviet Union with his family. They moved to the United States. Alexa told me, he said, yeah, all I got paid by the Soviets for Tetris and the rights to Tetris was a brand new pc.

He said, but given to the PCs that we were using in the Soviet Union were so horrible. I was really happy he's made more money since then. And it's a really great story. So that's one. There's one on YouTube I've recommended on this show before called B s. Now that's really going back in time. And it's a long documentary. It's broken up into several parts on YouTube. Highly recommend that. It's got, this is one for old timers like us because it's got, you know, reminiscences about things that I think a lot of people will have long ago forgotten things like the the zip wars <laugh>. But that was a fantastic documentary. Highly recommend that

Caller Kelly (01:11:21):
Micah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Question for Micah. Is there anything any stories that you've seen lately around tech that you that you enjoy that has inspired your younger generation?

Mikah Sargent (01:11:34):
So this is the thing when I was getting off the ground in terms of my interests I, I originally went to school to be an, an advertising person. I wanted to go work for an ad agency and ad agency and do graphic design and that kind of thing. And so there are three documentaries that I wanna mention that I think can be helpful for and interesting to anyone who exists in this sort of interest in mechanics and technology and how it all kind of works together. And there's, they're all made by the same group. There's a documentary called Helvetica and it's

Leo Laporte (01:12:12):
About, oh, love them.

Mikah Sargent (01:12:13):
The history. I used to fall asleep to that film every night. <Laugh>. What

Leo Laporte (01:12:17):
A, it's so good. You would think, I mean, this is the most boring font ever. Right? Right. And you would think, well that's gotta be the most boring documentary ever. Oh, it's

Mikah Sargent (01:12:23):
So good, <laugh>. It is so good. And then, so it talks about the history of graphic design in general, but also typefaces. You get some time with Deto ROMs. It's, it's amazing. And then there's also objectified. And that is a documentary about product design and manufacturer. And it is super incredible. And there's a third one, the name itself escapes me, but it's about city planning. And I learned so much about human nature from that documentary that I was not expecting based on the, the story of how people plan different cities and how they're put together. And it's again, made by the same team that made Helvetica and objectified. I think anyone who has an interest in just learning things in general and is a tinkerer at heart, which I think a lot of tech people are, would get so much out of those three films. Start with Helvetica, check out Objectified Next, and then go to the city planning documentary after that. They're so good. Since

Leo Laporte (01:13:23):
You said three, I'll do one more to make Mind three. Triumph of the Nerds. Have you ever seen that? I have not seen that goes way back. It's doesn't, it stops like, like where we would consider ancient history, cuz it was made a long time ago. But another great one. There's also, someday we should go over great books. Yeah. about this. But those are, those are six documentaries that it sound like that'd be well worth. And actually Tetris is dramatized, so I got, I shouldn't call that a documentary, but it'd be well worth seeing.

Caller Kelly (01:13:51):
Well, thank you guys. I appreciate Great

Leo Laporte (01:13:52):
Question. Kelly. I didn't ask you, I didn't get to ask you where you're calling from.

Caller Kelly (01:13:57):
Brooklyn. Nice.

Leo Laporte (01:13:58):

Mikah Sargent (01:13:58):
Thank you. Thank you for asking that question. That's a great one.

Caller Kelly (01:14:01):
You bet. And you know, if your listeners have any other con ideas and everything I'm listening. I love filling my head with the good

Leo Laporte (01:14:09):
Documentaries. Good. Throw 'em in. You can throw 'em into our irc irc TWiT tv. If you're in the club, club twit discord, you could throw 'em in there too. There's actually already a, a number of really good links. Scooter X put one from make use of, which is docu 10 amazing documentaries explaining the birth of computers in the internet. That also has some additional recommendations. I'd add. I'd, I'd concur with their mother of all demos if you

Caller Kelly (01:14:37):
Oh, the mother of all demos. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. <laugh>. Oh

Leo Laporte (01:14:40):
My, one of the things that's barely been a privilege for me doing this show for so many years, since 1992, I think is that I've gotten an interview and meet many of the people who were involved. That is so beginning so cool of the world. And I remember when Doug Engelbart, who was the guy who did the mother of all demos, came into the screensavers and brought that wooden mouse, the very first mouse, the mouse prototype with him. Wow. And I was in awe of the man and the mouse. Really really an amazing story. So that's worth watching too. That's on YouTube as well, the mother of all demos. Kelly a a pleasure. It's fun to go down memory lane with, with another Thank you both. Longtime user. Bye-Bye. Thank you. Yeah. All right, I'm gonna now have to stand up

Mikah Sargent (01:15:26):
<Laugh> stand. No,

Leo Laporte (01:15:27):
See, see how well I can do that. Cuz I, you know, we've talked so much about the raspberry pie over the years. It's really impressive. I've even then interviewed the the creator of the Raspberry Pie on triangulation. And so, you know, we, we've talked about with, with people like Ada Fruit about, you know, projects and stuff, but I don't know if we've really covered it from the GetGo from the get-go. So let's, let's do a primer, a beginning, a beginner's introduction to the Raspberry Pie. I'm gonna get up and walk over.

Mikah Sargent (01:15:54):
I often feel this is what's missed in reviews and when we talk about products is getting people started.

Leo Laporte (01:16:01):
People assume you know everything. And, and we do that all the time. In fact, I think that's fine because we don't want to be, you can't, you can't always be a beginner's guy. But every once in a while you want to talk about it. This is an old raspberry pie. A lot of us. It's hard to get the new raspberry pie to be honest with you. A lot of us have old raspberry pies. We bought lying around for various projects. John, I know how many do you have? Five raspberry pies doing a lot of audio stuff in your house, switching and controls and stuff like that. These are basically inexpensive, tiny little computers. This is a $35 computer. It has an arm microprocessor on it. But the thing that makes the Raspberry Pie so cool and, and, and the, the, the creators of this really were inspired by something called the B BBC Micro, which was an inexpensive computer in the a eighties that, that a lot of British kids learned about computers from.

There was a very popular school computer, very popular in the home. It was kind of their version of the Commodore 64. And so the creator of the Raspberry Pie, as many Brits did, grew up with that and said we should have something for the modern generation that's inexpensive, that's easy that they can learn about computing with. And he created the Raspberry Pie and it has been a huge hit, hard to get right now, cuz of the chip shortage that's starting to ease up. This is a raspberry pie three B, but they're up to four now. But here's what makes a raspberry pie cool. Yeah. $35, but it also has io So this one has four U SB ports. It has a ethernet jack. How about that? In fact, I might need an ethernet. Jack, John, I forgot to, well, I, no, I won't need it yet for the next one.

We'll, it has H D M I out, it has audio out. But the thing that really makes the Raspberry Pie interesting is this, it has a Jeep they call the G P I O that has a IO bus that you can connect to. So you can connect this to a variety of hardware components, make it to a lot of things. You can actually use it as a full computer. It has ram, it has a processor. You put storage in in an SD card. So it has a little SD card slot right here. In fact, micro sd. So here's a 32 gig, inexpensive micro SD card. You'll put the operating system on here. And Raspberry Pie comes with its own version of Linux. They used to call it rasp and now they just call it raspberry pie. Os you put it in, in just in that slot in here.

And now that's the memory. It's also the operating system. That's your hard drive. So it's got everything you'd want for a computer. People often in fact I'm gonna, I can power it. I will power it with this micro sb I, I wonder if the new raspberry pies, I haven't seen one have type C I think they may still have micro sb. You can boot it up with just by plugging in, you obviously you're gonna put the operating system in. It'll run other it'll even run windows. There's a version of Windows for raspberry pie. In fact, there's a wonderful book on learning to program Python on the Raspberry Pie that uses that version of Windows. Cuz that Windows has a, has has Minecraft on it. Okay, I'm not putting it in right. I guess it's not, it's not going in fully. That version Windows has Minecraft on it, which Microsoft owns.

Plus I guess it's in Plus an API that allows you to control it with Python. So here, you know, you want to get your 12 year old or 11 year old or a may even a smart 10 year old into computing and they love Minecraft. Get a raspberry pie with a get this book learning to program Python with Minecraft. It's from no starch press. And you can put Windows on here and you can run Minecraft on here and a Minecraft server on here and you can program it. And they'll very quickly learn Python because it's so much fun to blow up things. <Laugh> in Minecraft. So I'm gonna plug this in and show you how it works. But first let's tell you what the project is for today. Cause most of the time you could use this, by the way, you could totally use this with a keyboard, mouse and monitor.

And it would be an, it would be a computer. Not the fastest computer in the world, but for a kid, a fine computer. But you remember the other day, I just before I left on vacation, I got this, this is an E Ink display from Pie Moroni. It's called the Inky Impression. And this is a 7.3 inch, 800 by four eight pixel display. It's seven color E ink. Probably not fast enough. The refresh rate on this is probably not fast enough to use it as your display. And there are plenty of displays you can buy that are normal displays that you can put on. But this is what's called a hat <laugh>. They call it a hat because you can put it on top of the raspberry pie, you can mat it on the raspberry pie. I'm gonna show you how to do this.

Most raspberry pies, if you get a kit, will come with a variety of different adapters in this case. The one we're gonna use is not a cable. See that this, this matches exactly the G P I O bus. This matches exactly the pins on the raspberry pie. The problem is we can't get it quite on there enough. I've got these standoffs in here. Let me take the standoffs off cuz those will also come with a kit. So we could start completely from scratch. You could try to put this on there, but you're gonna see, oh, it just, it's just, it's too thick. Well that's why you have this, this is a little standoff. It's just an, it's just another one, right? It plugs into here, pushes into there, and then the ra, it's just the right depth that the raspberry pie when plugged into the standoff.

Let me do this right, you're gonna wanna do this more carefully than Leo is and you're probably gonna want to ground yourself in all that stuff, right? But Leo's, as you know, a risk taker and now this is mounted as part of, this could be a single unit. You could hang this on the wall for instance. But there's one problem. There's a lot of flexing that's gonna go on. So before I do that, I'm gonna put those things that I took off back. And again, if you go to ADA Fruit or raspberry or one of many project sites, they'll sell this all As as kits. They'll sell a regular display if you want. These are the standoffs that come with it. And notice the the Inky is designed for this. It's got, it's got three screw holes in exactly the right position for the raspberry pie. This is why you want to get stuff designed for raspberry pie, cuz that makes it very easy. So, and they always

Mikah Sargent (01:22:39):
Expected that you would kind of use this as a singular unit because I'm noticing you're taking up all of those G P I pins. So it's not as if you could put something else.

Leo Laporte (01:22:47):
Yeah, you could though connect something into this using the u SB usb. Yeah, right. So the raspberry pie is very programmable. I I won't put all four in there. There's a fourth standoff that you could put there, these things. So now when I put this back into the extender there, like that, those match exactly the holes on the raspberry pie. And I can screw this in. Now this thing is, is integral to the screen. I mean, it's as if it was built into it. So this allows you to, to upgrade, to change raspberry pies. It allows you to play with it. You don't have to you know, it's not, it's a part of it. It's, it's secure. And now we're ready to go. So I could power up this raspberry pie, plug it into a keyboard, mouse and monitor, and I would have a a full computer.

And it's running this inky impression. The next step we're gonna save for next week, which is to program it. So we're gonna go to raspberry and we're gonna get the Raspberry Operating System. You'll get it for the one that you're using, in this case, the Raspberry Pie three B. We will get the right operating system. It'll actually boot up into that operating system. And then it comes with pie ins Python installed. Python is really kind of the default language you can write for the Raspberry Pie with a variety of different languages. But Python usually has the libraries you need. In this case, the folks at Pie Moroni who make the Inky provide a Python library that gives you a full interface to these pins on here, right? Oh, nice, nice. So it makes it very easy. So they give you example. All you really need, all I really need is an example program in Python that will display a picture on here.

They give us that they call it, but we're gonna modify it because in order for this to do what we want it to do, which is I think be a clock, we'll see if it refreshes, it has to refresh at least once a second. I think we can do that. Ian displays are notoriously slow. That's why you can't use it as a regular display. But if I could even get it once a second to okay, if it, even if it can get it to update once a minute. If we want a secondhand, I'll have to do it once a second. If we just want it to be by the minute, like our other clock once a minute, we for sure can do that. Then we can make this into a seven color display that's a little bit more controllable. The the cool thing on this on this inky impression is it has four buttons, a, B, C, and D.

And their library will also allow us to, to query those buttons and respond to those buttons. So we're gonna have a library that lets us talk to the screen display stuff on the screen, see this state of the buttons, know when a button is pressed and respond to it. The library I'm gonna use is very simple. All it does is displays an image, an image on the drive, that's this little micro SD card. It displays an image on the drive, on the screen. So the second part of the program will be to create that image, update it once a minute. If it's a clock every minute, we'll change the minute hand, that kind of thing. So that's gonna be in our next, our next stage. But that's, that's kind of how it works. And if you go to ada, you'll see they have a variety of kits.

I think there's still a short supply on pies is a little frustrating cuz this is the greatest little thing. $35 for the bare bones raspberry pie. Add a couple of bucks for an SD card. The kit may have many of these things. You're gonna add a couple of bucks for other parts for a screen. You probably have an old mouse and keyboard lying around that you can use. They'll just use the USB ports on here. Ethernet is nice, but it will also support wifi. So the later raspberry pies will also support wifi. So you're really, you're really set with a computer system. We'll do the second part of the project. We'll get into Python. We'll get into the a little coding in weeks to come so that we can turn this into a little bit of a clock.

There you go. That's, that's part two. Cuz I showed you before I left the inky impression. Now we got a raspberry pie firmly attached to it. I brought the battery pack cuz you can use a battery pack to power it up. I'll just show you real quickly. I'll just plug it in. I can always, I hate micro U S B. Yeah, the newer one has u s, BBC is power. It does Hallelujah. Confirmed. Hallelujah. Although, you know, it's not a big deal. We've got and we've got the lights. It's starting to boot up. It will, it will handle the ethernet network. It'll handle an H D M I device. It has sound built in. It's kind of amazing what you get for 35 bucks these days. All right, I'm gonna walk back over. That's it on the on part one of our clock, our new clock for the set.

I'm gonna walk back over to the set and we're gonna take another call. What do you say, Mike? Sounds great. When I did the, when I did call for help in Canada, we we had a really kinda limited set and it was a tiny little room. It's all Rogers gave us and they barely managed to get three cameras in there, <laugh>. And there was a big pole in the middle of the set. And every single show I had to open the show and then make this transition walking around this pole <laugh> and the poor camera guy had to kind of follow me around the pole. Never really, never really worked, right? So we have, we have the same problem here, which is that that demo set is a mile away. It's a long way away before we go to our next call, and I think it will be, looks like I see a hand raised from Chris in Miami.

I do want to do a little shout out to our sponsor. Do you mind? Beautiful. May I, you may it's actually an important sponsor to us because without it there would be no twit. You know back in the earliest days when we started the podcast I just put it up on a website and then I quickly learned that there are very few websites that can handle 55 to a hundred thousand downloads, <laugh> all, all at once. So we would try and bit torn all sorts of things. Then a guy named Matt Levine called me. He was the founder of a content delivery network, a CDN called Cash Fly. And my, and, and, and Matt said, we can help. And the rest is history. Without Cash Fly, there would be no Twit. Cash Fly is a CD and a content delivery network that makes sure your content, whether it's a podcast, a game, a website gets to your customers faster and easier.

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It means cash fly is nearer to your customers. To our listeners. Now, I have to say, some markets are more challenging than others and content delivery costs can really vary drastically. So you wanna work with a cdn? We had to where, look, we we're not rolling in it. You have to work with a CDN that knows what it takes to deliver content fast. We do want a global market. We want you to be able to listen anywhere in the world and is honest about how much it's gonna cost to get you there. Plus a a, you want a CDN that'll scale your content delivery in con in markets that are tough. Cash flow, for instance, have been building points of presence in South and Central America. This is gonna be a huge market for gaming and entertainment over the next five years. We know already we're seeing incredible growth in South and Central America.

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They're there, which is where you want to be, right? Reach your audience anywhere in the world. Cash fly. 50 plus points of presence all over the world. Ultra low latency video streaming that can handle more than a million customers. Lightning fast gaming, zero lag, glitches or outages. Mobile content optimization that delivers automatic and simple image optimization. So your site will load faster no matter what size device it's on. Plus you don't ever have to worry about service overlap again. You'll get flexible month to month billing for as long as you need it. Discounts for fixed terms. Once you're happy, you design your own contract. We did and we've been very happy when you switched to Cash Flow since 1999. Cash Flow has been building trusted CDN relationships. We've been with them for almost the whole time we've been around. There's no better cdn. I wanna recommend Cash Fly to everybody. It's the only CDN built for throughput. Delivering rich media content 10 times faster than traditional delivery methods. 30% faster than other major CDNs. You can learn how to get your first month free when you go to cash How many years have I been saying this? C A C H e f l Cash lie. Thank you. Cash line. We really appreciate the support. All right, caller number three is Chris in Miami. My coffee man. Hello Chris.

I don't know if Chris will agree. Best coffee I ever had. Chris

Caller Chris (01:33:25):
Rome. Where? Where?

Leo Laporte (01:33:26):
Rome, Italy. I saw that. Rome, Italy.

Caller Chris (01:33:28):
I saw the coffee. That coffee bar. I was like going into meltdown when I saw this coffee bar. He takes this picture and I'm like, oh, the angels are singing. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:33:39):
It was so good.

Caller Chris (01:33:40):
And I was like, what? Yeah, I thought I sent you a message on that.

Leo Laporte (01:33:43):
Yes I did. I saw it. We were in Rome and our guide said, well we have to go to the oldest coffee shop in Rome, Taza Doro. And oh my God. She showed it also. She said, Romans never sit down and drink coffee. No. In fact, you have to pay a extra price if you wanna sit down, take a fee. Really? She said, we just stand at the counter and drink it cuz we're in a hurry out. And it's espresso. It's the best espresso I've ever had. And she says, I like to have it with a little bit of cold milk. So I say Conte, frio. And that little cold milk you pour in there. Just a, just a dab. You're not gonna make a cappuccino or a latte out of it. That's unheard of. Afternoon. Do you drink your coffee straight, Chris?

Caller Chris (01:34:25):
I drink my coffee black all the time. Even when I use the coffee press, it's always black. I don't like anything in my coffee. That's what they said. They're not doing

Leo Laporte (01:34:31):
That. Real coffee lovers. Don't adulterate their coffee without,

Caller Chris (01:34:35):
That's exactly what it is. No adulterating in Miami. No, it's not. My coffee cup.

Leo Laporte (01:34:39):
Not in this cup. Anyway, there you go. <Laugh>. Yeah. Mike, Mike. Mike is the same way, right? You don't Yeah. You don't wanna mess around with your coffee since I was a kid. Yeah, <laugh>. He, he loves his coffee. I'm gonna pull up those pictures of Taza Doro so we can look at him after you tell us what your question is, Chris.

Caller Chris (01:34:56):
Well I wanted to start off by saying welcome back. Thank you to the party. Thank

Leo Laporte (01:35:00):

Caller Chris (01:35:01):
Missed you absolutely bunches. Aw. You know, Micah was a party. You know, I

Leo Laporte (01:35:06):
Think we had a, I think we did pretty well. In fact, the best we've ever done, frankly. Which encourages me to take more time off. I hope you're ready for it. Cause I think you've got such great people with Micah and Jason and aunt and, and all the people came in like Scott Wilkinson. I just feel like mm-hmm. <Affirmative> we're, we're, we're in great shape. Rosemary Orchard. Yeah, man, if I could get her,

Caller Chris (01:35:27):
Rosemary came over.

Leo Laporte (01:35:28):
If I could get her to move here, she'd, we'd hire her in a heartbeat. She's

Caller Chris (01:35:31):
He was happy. He's like, Woohoo. Rosemary's in the house. It was, it was like a party. It was

Mikah Sargent (01:35:36):
A party. It was, we had a

Leo Laporte (01:35:37):
Party. Yeah. <laugh>. She's the host with Micah of iOS today, which is a great show that's every Tuesday

Caller Chris (01:35:43):
On Absolutely amazing. You were missed. So I know you wanna go away all the time, but you were, I won't

Leo Laporte (01:35:48):
Go away all the time. You, but I maybe

Caller Chris (01:35:50):
Just Miami. I dunno.

Leo Laporte (01:35:52):
Only in Miami. Am I missed? Hey, I wanna go, I wanna do like Arizona, Lou, I want to go to Key West and do the shows.

Caller Chris (01:35:59):
Oh, you were just over here. What, like late last year or something? You were

Leo Laporte (01:36:02):
Down couple years before the pandemic. Oh yeah, we went down the Caribbean. We went to Cancun. Yes. which was wonderful. We love it. But yeah, I wouldn't mind doing the keys, the Florida Keys. As long as there's no hurricane. I think that'd be fun.

Caller Chris (01:36:16):
You come to Miami, you know, my hobby, he worked at sushi Siam Monte Tiba. So that's a, that's a right

Leo Laporte (01:36:22):
There. I love South Beach. South Beach is beautiful. Yeah, I, it's fun. So what can we do for you? So beach

Caller Chris (01:36:27):
Is mixed. Yeah, well, you know, I still yeah, I like

Leo Laporte (01:36:31):
Pastel gang. I the, I like the pastel building. That's what I like. I just think that's pretty It

Caller Chris (01:36:36):
Is pretty. Yeah, it is pretty. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. So I I'm still working on the, well, I got the, I got the Apple Watch Ultra. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:36:46):
Good. See? Gorgeous Favorite

Caller Chris (01:36:48):
Is, but the band, the bands are very easy to use. It's not a problem. But I did check out Nomad and the Titanium one that I wanted to get is $300. It's not back order. Apple's stainless steel one. I don't know what people are talking about, but it's not, I know I work out and everything. I mean, but it's not heavy people. It really, it, it adds a couple of minor ounces to it. People explain it in videos. Like you put it on the stainless steel to the watch and your arm hits the floor. <Laugh>. If that doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. So well

Leo Laporte (01:37:18):
Tell me, here, I'll let an independent judge. I'm wearing the, this is the Ultra, which is a heavy, it's beautiful watch. Beautiful with that titanium band. And I did, I had to wait a few months to get it from Nomad Goods. Tell me if you feel like that's heavy. Okay. Of course

Mikah Sargent (01:37:29):
With titanium, titanium is lighter. It's pretty stainless steel. Yeah. I don't notice a difference.

Caller Chris (01:37:34):
You don't notice anything. Yeah, but people are talking about videos, like you put it on and it's like, it's a little heavier before it's too heavy.

Leo Laporte (01:37:40):
It's part of the workout. You know, I got muscle left on,

Mikah Sargent (01:37:43):
Taken off. Your arm just flies up in the air.

Leo Laporte (01:37:45):
<Laugh>, I, I don't know if you're like me. I, so I'm getting up. I'm still in my jammies. I'm on row for a little bit. And I said, wait, I can't row. Lisa says, come on row. Yep. She said, I can't row, I don't have my watch. I went and got my watch and put it on. Get your, your I want credit. Yeah, exactly. Credit. Thank you. If I don't get credit, it didn't happen. Watch or it didn't happen. <Laugh>,

Caller Chris (01:38:05):
Yeah, yeah. That anyway, but I did use a note site.

Leo Laporte (01:38:07):
I think it's pretty pricey. 300 bucks. Yeah. I think a lot of people would be a little put off by that. The steel band is less 200 bucks. I think Nomad makes really nice products. They used to be a sponsor. If you really want light, I guess they have aluminum. But I've, since this, since this ultra is is titanium, you know, in its body, I think it matches very nicely. Nice. It's got a, a lot of times third party watches don't have good clasps. This is a very nice clasp. It's both magnetic and physical. I don't know. I, I'm pretty happy with it. I,

Caller Chris (01:38:40):
I don't think you'd wear just anything Leo, you're also wearing in particular,

Leo Laporte (01:38:44):
Right? Right now you've got the sweatpants of apple Watch bands on the hook and loop.

Caller Chris (01:38:49):
It's, you know what, but it's very easy to use. I mean, at first I was like, okay, but I gotta tell you, I don't, it doesn't get dirty. It matches the closest thing. I miss my melan loop, though. I'm, I like my melan loop, but maybe they'll come out with other bands. I don't mind going with a link. But I've always had a link, Rachel, actually all my watches until I came to Apple, and then I've been doing the Meese look for a number of years now. But this is very easy. The green, I don't like, I don't like the green, and I don't want the orange because God forbid everybody else in the room has orange. Yeah. <laugh>. So I don't, I don't wanna do orange. So the titanium looks good, you know, it's 300 at, no, and then it's $49 more for the stainless over at Apple. So Titan three hundreds too much is about titanium, about

Mikah Sargent (01:39:30):
40% lighter than stainless. So if you're looking for

Leo Laporte (01:39:34):
Lighter, I'm happy with this. But I have a lot of bands. I wear a leather band sometimes. Yeah, I wear that Velcro or I'm sorry, hook and loop Sport band. The, yeah. I sweat, as Renee Ritchie calls it, the sweatpants. Sweatpants. This is by the way, a picture of us ordering. So when you go to Rome to get your coffee, you gotta an understanding. You go to these coffee shops I got a picture up here. You go first to the cashier and you tell him what you want. Then you get a slip of paper that says what you want. And there we are giving it to the barista. So he doesn't touch money. Right. The cat, you pay the cashier and then you give the slip to the barista. He's getting his one Euro tip. There, we, and this is very important when you're standing up, there's Lisa, there's Lisa. When you're standing up, you talk with your hands as you're having your delicious espresso. There's the machine. That machine, it's the biggest espresso machine I ever saw. It had six, six heads on it. It was, oh, think

Caller Chris (01:40:29):
It makes sense. That's impressive. Was because I

Leo Laporte (01:40:30):
Was wondering

Mikah Sargent (01:40:31):
If a long wait or

Leo Laporte (01:40:32):
Not. And well, three

Caller Chris (01:40:33):
Cups easy

Mikah Sargent (01:40:34):
Right there. There you go. Three cups

Leo Laporte (01:40:35):
Easy. It's so I have to say, oh, so good. Oh, I'm, now you make, that's awesome, Jones. I'm Jones. And I want, I'm glad

Caller Chris (01:40:42):
You've had. Yeah, but you know what, I think you had some people that really were like, you know, why is he on vacation? What's he doing? And, you know, I, how

Leo Laporte (01:40:49):
Dare he.

Caller Chris (01:40:49):
I'm glad. How

Leo Laporte (01:40:50):
Dare he be on vacation? Well, no, I can now, because we've got Micah, aunt Jason, we've got people. I got people. You got people. That's why we got

Caller Chris (01:40:58):
People 19 years, man. 19 years of, of doing the right thing. Well, and then in pandemic, it was one episode,

Leo Laporte (01:41:04):
And then pandemic. We really get a lot of lot of vacation time. So we kind of making up for it. But I have to say, we don't have any others planned. So I'll be here for the rest of my life. <Laugh>.

Caller Chris (01:41:15):
Well, cause you know, you had one episode where it had to do with Dickie d when, I think it was back in the day with this, this, I guess this fellow didn't wanna work, and, and you said you, well, you know, you gotta check with me first. And I, I sent it to you, actually. And then you're like, well, God forbid you work a full day. And then you did the eye roll, which I thought was perfect, because it's like, God forbid you work a full day, God forbid you work a full day, 19, 19 years of full days you gotta start over again. I don't

Leo Laporte (01:41:39):
Work that hard now. I'm re I'm retirement age. I know. And I work three days a week. I know. That's a good, that's a good life for me. I'm That's good

Caller Chris (01:41:46):
For you. Yeah. Yeah. You can be on vacation for the other days of the week. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:41:49):

Caller Chris (01:41:49):
So, I wanted to ask, I, I talked to Micah about this. I think you were here before about the, the doorbell ring thing. I'm still kind of going through that. I wanted to maybe get a couple of cameras, and I find that I just, the, you know, it's not the cost. I can go to Best Buy, maybe pick up something, but I'm just still kind of going through that. And I, Micah, you were very helpful before you and Leah, but I'm still kind of going phasing in and out of this, where if I get something, I wanna make sure, for me, really it's the camera. I want a camera that sees down to the floor out and, you know, to the condo. So I wanna see what's going on out there when someone's knocking on my door. But I also want to have some stop in my house, in the corner, some cameras and everything and stuff. That's really just the, the reason for the, you, you, you can do it however you want it. You can get back in touch at me whenever you want. But that's kinda like where I'm at right now. Yeah. On that.

Mikah Sargent (01:42:37):
I will,

Caller Chris (01:42:37):
That's my question and everything. So

Mikah Sargent (01:42:40):
Just for, for anyone who's asking there, they're, you're hard pressed at this point to find any of the mainstream makers of these smart, these smart cameras. You're hard pressed to find any that kind of fail at, at, they're all pretty good with them to do. Yeah. Yeah. And because we've reached sort of parody between the different companies, so I think in the end, it's all about who you want to do business with and where your comfort level is. Because Amazon is working on it with their ring stuff. Google is working on it with their Nest stuff. Then you've got those third party companies wise and ufi and of course those companies have had their share of, of issues with security. And so I, it, I hesitate to recommend any brand in particular at this point, because it all depends on what your own decision is on your sort of limitations that you have.

I I have a wise camera that I simply just plug in when I leave the home and use it then. And it's a, it's this great pan. They, they remade their pan camera. So now it's on, its, it's on version three and it's fantastic. It has the auto smarts to follow along if there's something that's moving in the frame and you can take control of it yourself. It doesn't cost a whole lot of money, which is also great. And it plugs in. It can be mounted anywhere. And even though Wise had its set of, of security issues, and, you know, there was kind of the back and forth there for me and my comfort level. I don't have this camera on or even plugged in whenever I'm at home. And even a lot of times when I'm gone, I don't have, it's whenever I'm gone for a longer period of time than it plugs in. So for me, I'm okay with the issues that they had in the past that they addressed and worked on. And the same applies to UFI for the, the same reason. So yeah, it, it all really depends on what you feel comfortable having inside your home and how much money you're wanting to spend. If it's at the low end, you might check out wise if you're comfortable with them. And if you kind of want to go up from there, that's where you would look at Amazon's ring or Google's Nest as an option.

Caller Chris (01:44:53):
I have. What about security? Oh, sorry, Leo.

Leo Laporte (01:44:55):
I have the go personally. I have the hello? Mm-Hmm. The Google Nest. Mm-Hmm. Pretty happy with it. Security's one thing, privacy's another. I think those are the two things you should ask yourself about when you get one of these. Absolutely. and I trust Google's security pretty much. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I think it's fairly safe. But remember in most of these, you are storing the videos on their website. So the Nest website has full-time video of wherever I have a camera, including my front door. If I have a camera in the house, in the house, and I do that's, so you can go look at it at any time. That's a convenience, but you better trust A, that they're keeping it secure so somebody else can't see it. And B, that they're not, you know, misusing it for their own purposes. Right. Security and privacy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they go hand in hand, really. Right? Yeah. W I guess wise would be, I mean, they've had security issues, but they do have a camera where you don't send it to the cloud.

Mikah Sargent (01:45:52):
Yes. Almost all of their cameras actually come with a micro SD slot including that pan V3 that I was just talking about. And so you don't have to, we

Leo Laporte (01:46:03):
Can record locally. Yeah. You can

Mikah Sargent (01:46:04):
Just record it locally. That

Leo Laporte (01:46:05):
Has its disadvantages. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and of course, wise had a problem with their first version of their camera that was cracked and they haven't been able to fix it. And so you had the version, don't

Mikah Sargent (01:46:16):
Use the first version,

Leo Laporte (01:46:17):
You had the first version of camera. Some stranger could log into your cameras. That's not good.

Mikah Sargent (01:46:21):
Exactly. So again, that's the concern.

Caller Chris (01:46:23):
Google Google has this tendency, I I was listening to rich on Tech on Saturday. It was, and apparently it seems like every weekend, maybe, I think it's every week. And everybody Google keeps removing products that they don't want anymore. <Laugh>, so they just removed something else recently. And so my, I I was looking to get into Google and more of their product line because we have their routers, our condo already, but they just seem to say, eh, we're gonna delete that. We're not gonna have that product no longer. We're just gonna move on. Let's maybe try something new. So it, it seems like there's no sense of they're gonna be a around for a while. They just seem to just say, well, let's discontinue the first set of routers and you can go out and spend $600 on maybe three more. That's which I don't mind doing. But that's, that's not a really good security thing for me, is what Google does. They do what they want.

Mikah Sargent (01:47:13):
Right. That Well, and that's the unfortunate aspect. I don't, and that's the thing. I don't know that this reputation that they've gotten from that is something that I think they would want to continue to try to fix. And I think the problem is, we do tend to look at Google as this sort of monolith of a company. And oftentimes it's these smaller teams that are making these different products. And within those teams, there are decisions to close this down or close that down. But from the outside, it's like, oh, Google is shuttering this. Google is shuttering this. Google is shuttering this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, all of those companies were broken out. It wouldn't look as if it's as frequent as it is. And so, yes, there is a concern about the, the lack of trust there, that the product will last in the long term. The same thing applies to Amazon in terms of privacy.

We, there's a narrative surrounding Amazon that they are constantly scooping up data. And in many cases you do see that. But they have, I, and I, like, I have to give them credit for this. They have made significant improvements to your control over how much data they collect, how they collect it, how long they hold onto it. There are little settings that you can say, I don't want you to ever save this to your server. And so they have made those improvements, but the narrative is still there. So that applies for Google in terms of closing things down, that applies to Amazon in terms of the privacy aspects. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Leo Laporte (01:48:28):
Well, the irony is Amazon also closes things down. Yes. This is correct. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I bought one of their Amazon what do they call those? Halo, halo bands. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that is a health band. They just closed that down. So look, this can happen to big companies and little companies, little companies can go outta business. I had a dash cam. Yeah. that the owl cam that went outta business. I mean,

Mikah Sargent (01:48:47):
It's the risk, unfortunately,

Leo Laporte (01:48:48):
That's always the risk. I think you're probably mm-hmm. <Affirmative> at less risk buying a product from Google, given that they ha they're not gonna go outta business anyway. Right. Right. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and I think when they kill products, they do it with enough warning and so forth. But there's always that risk that that doorbell in, you know, what do you expect? Do you think that doorbell will be working in 10 years? I doubt it. You know, you're probably gonna want, even if Google doesn't go out of business or kill the nest line, you're gonna want a newer doorbell. Because when you're, once, once you start putting smart products in your home, stop thinking that it's gonna last forever, you're gonna be upgrading them. So yeah.

Caller Chris (01:49:24):
I'm not one of those people. I have to be Right. Admitted to the, you know, the next cup, cup of coffee. It's like with the doorbell, you're not, you're not one of those people. You're

Leo Laporte (01:49:30):
Not so much invested in the long, you're not gonna look at those videos five years from now. It's not, it's not like a photo storage site. Right. <laugh> it. So you're not so much invested in having a continuity of service if an, if, if they go outta business, you get a new one. I don't think that's the

Caller Chris (01:49:46):
End of all. Yeah, I agree with that.

Leo Laporte (01:49:47):
Yeah. I don't think that's the end all. No, just,

Caller Chris (01:49:49):
You know, and, and a lot of times too, a lot of products, I mean, it's, it's like the, it's the whole iPhone thing, it smartphone thing where people have their phone for like 10, 12 years. And I'm like, I mean, I got a friend of mine like that in text. Oh, I know. It's like, you know, you, it'd be a good idea to update the phone because it's no longer made. Is that, are they even supporting it with when the software goes off the grid? Yes. If I actually keep something that long, then that's it for me. I mean, literally, it's gotta be game over, because now everything goes with it. And I basically don't have a brick, but it's like people just, you know, I can't speak for anybody else, but I mean, I, I have the 14 pro, I have the Apple Watch Ultra, and I just, yeah.

I might sell the 14 pro, I like it. But if they make another leap, I'm a little weird like that. But I mean, I just don't keep things fort. You're not gonna have me keep a panel for 10, 12 years. Right. And then, you know, I'm not a repair person. I'm not a diy. Let's take off the panel and replace the chip set. No, just go buy a new one. And so I, I'm absolutely not. I think certain things you can keep around for a long time. I just feel that at least me, at Chris and Miami, that technology is really just not one of those, unless you have something that it's gonna last a long time. Yeah. And

Leo Laporte (01:50:52):
Work. So privacy and security are probably the things to think about. Less so longevity. Yep. And I think trust Google for security. Yeah. trust him for privacy. Well more than a Facebook doorbell, but maybe, maybe, maybe that's not the number one choice. Chris. Hey, I appreciate the call. Thanks. It's great to talk. Woo to you. Woo woo.

Caller Chris (01:51:12):
Hey, boss.

Leo Laporte (01:51:13):
More coffee.

Caller Chris (01:51:15):
Hey, three more cup tea. Easy <laugh>,

Leo Laporte (01:51:19):
Calm down. Calm down. Calm down, man. Alright.

Caller Chris (01:51:21):
Easy, easy,

Leo Laporte (01:51:23):

Caller Chris (01:51:23):
Okay, Leo, I appreciate you.

Leo Laporte (01:51:25):
Thanks, Chris. Have a great one. We're gonna go to Richard now in I don't know where, let's see where Richard is. Richard welcome to the show. Join us inside the magic Stargate.

Caller Richard (01:51:37):

Leo Laporte (01:51:48):
Got on mute. I can hear

Mikah Sargent (01:51:51):
Richard is talking. I saw the microphone go. Whoop, whoop, whoop. Currently talking, but we're not hearing Richard.

Caller Richard (01:52:02):
Oh, I'm unmuted.

Leo Laporte (01:52:03):
There we go. No, it's not you, it's us. Hi, Richard. Hey, Richard.

Caller Richard (01:52:09):
How are you? So let's get off on the right start. I was your first caller to say that the Apple Watch saved my life.

Leo Laporte (01:52:18):

Caller Richard (01:52:19):
So you've heard three times. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to share my story with you as we did in the segment in 2021. And I wanna get your opinions on what additional health applications we hopefully can look forward to from Apple Watch. And I've heard rumors about the headphones mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and how can Apple continue to make our lives better?

Leo Laporte (01:52:58):
Great question, Richard, where are you calling from again?

Caller Richard (01:53:01):
Westchester, New York.

Leo Laporte (01:53:03):
Westchester. And for people who didn't hear the radio show, so this is a couple years ago, Richard called, tell us in briefly, how did the Apple Watch save your life?

Caller Richard (01:53:14):
I was on vacation, a long waited vacation towards the end of the Covid pandemic lockdown. And I was in Kona, Hawaii, and I had not been feeling well that day, laid down to take a nap. And my watch alerted me, woke me up that I had an AFib incident going on. Backstory is, I have it. My family and my father had a series of strokes. Kona I knew only had two ambulances. I couldn't wait at the MinuteClinic line, by the way. It was also monsoon. Rainouts.

Leo Laporte (01:53:57):
Oh Lord. Wow. I,

Caller Richard (01:54:00):
I did what I suggested what I would suggest nobody else do, which was drive myself to the hospital about 30 miles. Oh wow. When I got to the hospital, the cardiac intensive care doctor said that likely the watch saved my life. 18 hours into the AFib incident he had threatened me with paddles. That's how close I was coming. Wow.

Leo Laporte (01:54:30):
Imagine Hadn hadn't gotten that alert and then had an incident, and you still have that monsoon rain, no ambulance, you're not driving yourself at that point. Yeah. It saved your life very clearly. That early warning made a huge difference. And I'm glad that we're still together. And you're still here, Richard. It's, it's wonderful. Absolutely. there's so much going on now with the Apple Watch. We've heard rumors and this would be huge, and everybody wants to solve this of non-invasive blood sugar measurement. As you know, anybody who's a diabetic as I am, type two diabetic, you wanna keep track of your blood sugar level. Ideally, you'd have kind of a continuous glucose monitoring, and they make those, but they're invasive. You have to stick something in your arm and a little, a filament goes into your fluid in your skin and is measuring your blood sugar that way.

Or you pick your prick, your finger, and you, and you measure your blood that way. If you're a type one diabetic, it's a life or death thing, you might be doing that several times a day. Or you might have a continuous glucose monitor attached to a, a pump that's pumping insulin into your body on demand. Wouldn't it be amazing for the more than, I think there's more than 14 million diabetics in the country if your apple watch without invading, without pricking you, or even putting a filament into your arm, could tell what your blood sugar was and continuously measure that. That is the holy grail. Tim Cook has a kind of alluded to it over the years, they've hired, they've bought, bought companies Yes. And allow them, just recently bought another company that allows them to do that. But I think we're, I think best guessed for most people is several years off. It's

Mikah Sargent (01:56:04):
Still a while away. It's a hard thing to do. Yeah. It's a very hard thing to do. And the problem is there are, the people who have thought about the ways to do it have taken a few different routes. And so trying to explore the ones that are go, the, the options that will work is a little difficult. We saw a Google attempt to do it by looking at the fluid in your eye, and that didn't really pan out. And what Apple appears to be doing as of late is looking at what's called interstitial fluid, which is fluid, that it kind of exists between cells and in, in the different parts of your body, in between rather structures, not cells. And by constantly monitoring that fluid, it can provide information about the glucose level in the body using what's kind of wild, sort of light refraction. So depending on how light is bouncing off of that fluid if they can get the algorithms just right and get enough information, then it starts to give trends for glucose. But the problem is, the technology to do it right now is still quite large. And so they've just gotten past the proof of concept stage with that according to all of the, you know, it's all rumors. Apples,

They're talking Yeah. Apple's not saying this. And so they wanna take it from something, you know, that's the size of a phone to be able to minimize it so that it can go in the watch along with all the other tools that you already have in there. So it's still a ways away, but as Leo's has said, you know, this really is the holy grail. And I think that it's the holy grail, not just for folks right now who are you know, diagnosed as diabetic, but for folks who a might not know that they are, that that does sometimes happen. And, you know, they've been having all these issues and then suddenly it comes out to be that their body was just not processing sugar as it was supposed to. And then also for anyone who, you know, the, the idea of having to prick your finger all the time or can't afford one of the, the regular glucose monitoring systems.

I mean, there's just so much that could be done in this space that would be very helpful for many, many people. And I think that it could lead to just more awareness overall of our bodies and how they're responding to the different things that we put in and the different things that we do. The other field would be blood pressure, and it seems like that would be more likely addition sooner rather than later, because they can use and it's kind of the same way that we look at pulse rate right now, a pulse oximeter which kind of looks at how red the, the blood is in a fingertip or near your extremities. If they can look at sort of as you, as your heart is beating, and the way that the color changes from red to a different color. So how Reddit gets and then sort of drops in redness over and over and over again. Mix that in with some magical algorithms and you can start to determine someone's blood pressure from that. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see blood pressure within the next two or three models of the Apple Watch, where blood glucose is something like five or six models out. And,

Leo Laporte (01:59:17):
And as, as you point out, Doug, we, I think it's very likely that a lot of these will end up in your AirPods. I just went into my for my annual checkup with my audiologist and yeah, they're gonna turn up my hearing aids a little bit, but I'm taking a look at, you know, what the hearing made manufacturers are doing. Starkey now has fall detection in their hearing aids. Oh, nice. Which is a, a great thing to have fall detection on your watch. I got my mom a 90 year old mom, an Apple watch specifically, so that, that fall detection would be there. And I know it works cuz I continually, no, I, once in a while, the other day I, I set it off making the bed. Every once in a while I'll whack my hand against something or something will happen and, and, and it'll go, did you fall? So I know it's working, which is a, is a good thing. And I think fall detection shouldn't be demi. It seems like a low tech thing, but it's a very important Yeah. I got very valuable thing.

Mikah Sargent (02:00:11):
My first alert yesterday was hiking and I did fall. I actually fell while I was hiking. I slipped on some very mossy rock next to the ocean. Yeah. And it said did you fall? And I thought I did, but I'm okay. So I guess I'm gonna say no <laugh>. So it knew that I, you could,

Leo Laporte (02:00:27):
You could say don't call emergency services, but I did fall. I

Mikah Sargent (02:00:30):
Fall. That's good. I never had it happen before. So I didn't know what button to

Leo Laporte (02:00:34):
Press. <Laugh>, it says stop, and then it asks you, well, did you actually fall? Or was this an error? And most of the time I say it was an error. I think down the road though, I mean, if you go to C es you'll see this year toilets that analyze your poop. Yes.

Mikah Sargent (02:00:48):

Leo Laporte (02:00:49):
Think down the road we are going to, it's maybe a decade off, probably not in time for you and me, but sometime in the, in the near future, good enough for Micah, we will see kind of full health metrics. You know, I mean, right now I go on and get my blood tested twice a year. Imagine if every day you, you had a blood analysis and you knew exactly what was going on. And then of course the next step is to tie it with therapeutics. And, and we're seeing improved therapeutics, things like the mRNA vaccine. It shows us the way towards maybe even cancer treatments that are tailored to g the genome of the cancer and your genome. I think we are on the edge mm-hmm. <Affirmative> of a real revolution in, in healthcare a significant revolution. But we're not there yet. And it's not gonna all happen with the Apple watch, cuz I don't think it'll be analyzing your poop anytime soon. <Laugh>. But but I, I do think that a lot of things are happening and it's very exciting. It's a very exciting time. And I'm so thrilled that it, that it, that your life was saved by the Apple watch is such an encouraging story. I love that.

Caller Richard (02:01:58):
Obviously I've become an Apple fanboy. Yeah. a after spending with your guidance, by the way, about 33 years in the IT sector. Oh. Are mainly focused on Windows. Mm-Hmm. at one point I was servicing seven different flavors of windows between the servers and desktops.

Leo Laporte (02:02:21):
<Laugh>, you have my deepest respect, Richard.

Mikah Sargent (02:02:24):
Sincerely <laugh>,

Caller Richard (02:02:26):
Let's just say that I retired about four months ago after 33 years. Nice. And all of my products right now are I don't want to be a a commercial for Tim Cook's products, but I'm a big fan.

Leo Laporte (02:02:46):
I wear my watch every day now, you know, when I first got it and I've told this story and I was pretty vocal on the air. I thought it was a toy, a gimmick, an accessory that didn't have a huge amount of value. And perhaps in the early days it didn't. Yeah. But over time they've really done a great job and they've focused on health and fitness, and I think that was exactly the right direction to take this. And it's a, it's, I I wouldn't be caught without my Apple watch, you

Mikah Sargent (02:03:11):
Know? That's how I feel now too. Yeah. In the same way, when I first had the series Zero, as we called it, I would go without it for three or four days before I put it back on now. Yeah. It's very, I feel naked without it. <Laugh>. Yeah. It sounds silly, but it's true. It's on my watch or it's on my wrist. I, I look at the time and I get all of the measurements and I like having that information available to me. Richard,

Leo Laporte (02:03:32):
A pleasure to talk to you. I'm glad to hear from you again, and I'm glad things are going well. And maybe next time go to Oahu, not Kona, and you'll be <laugh>

You'll be closer to medical services. I never even really thought about that. I, I'm dying to go to the, the wet side of Kona, but maybe <laugh>. I didn't know there were only two ambulances on the whole island. That's not, that's not good. <Laugh>. Thank you, Richard. Have a wonderful day. All right, you too. Take care, my friend. Isn't that a nice story? Of course. Apple's been advertising those like crazy. It's really been a big deal for Apple. And I think it sells a lot of watches. Certainly I wouldn't have bought one for my mom except for that fall detection. And now you can set it up for kids and elders without them having an iPhone as well. You could set it up with your iPhone and give it to 'em. I think they're definitely on the right track

Mikah Sargent (02:04:20):
And a rumor that iPads are around the corner as a means of setting. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (02:04:23):
Isn't that interesting? So you could, what was the story that you could pair your watch to multiple devices? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> not multiple watches to a single device. Not

Mikah Sargent (02:04:31):
Multiple watch. Well, but you can do that with the iPhone. You can have multiple, you have two watches. Watches Oh. Compared to this iPhone. So hopefully it would be the same on both.

Leo Laporte (02:04:39):
So you wouldn't have to have an iPhone to get an Apple watch. You have an iPad. Yeah. Or a Mac.

Mikah Sargent (02:04:44):
That would be cool. I did not read about the Mac. Okay. But that would be

Leo Laporte (02:04:46):
Nice, the i an iOS device because

Mikah Sargent (02:04:48):
Then I could set up, you know, my whole family's. Yeah. Very

Leo Laporte (02:04:51):
Nice. Micah Sergeant, if you like iOS and you wanna know more about watches, iPads and iPhones. He's got a great show. Ios today. Every Tuesday with Rosemary Orchard. You could subscribe, you can even watch it live. It's right before Mac Break Weekly. It's kind of an Apple morning. Yeah,

Mikah Sargent (02:05:08):
It's great. It's a nice morning with Apple.

Leo Laporte (02:05:10):
Yeah. You'll also catch him on Tech News Weekly, where they talk to Newsmakers and really get some of the biggest newsmakers on. We're gonna do TWIT in just a few minutes, and I'm excited. We've got Brianna Woo. Stopping in. We'll talk about Blue Sky with Brianna. She's all in on blue Sky. And one of the great security guys, Alex Stamos famous for his work at Facebook. He was hired by Zoom to turn it around for them. Did he's done he's worked everywhere and is a, and does a wonderful security podcast. He's gonna join us on Twitter. This next hour, next half hour or so. We have to have the Sacramento Kings game on in the back. Apparently he's giving up his N B A to be with us. I want to thank, as I have earlier all our Club TWIT members and invite you, if you're not yet a member, to join Club Twit. $7 a month does not pay for Leo's vacations. I wanna say that up front.

Mikah Sargent (02:06:03):
Yeah, that's not <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (02:06:05):
What it does is it keeps the lights on, keeps the show going, keeps Micah here, keeps here, keeps Jason here. And more, most importantly, let's, let's us launch new shows like this week in Space. Micah's hands on McIntosh, Paul t's Hands on Windows, the Untitled Lennox Show with Jonathan Bennett. We've got Stacy's book Club, we have events. All of these happen in the Discord. That's another reason why you might wanna join Club to it because that, that, that discord is so much fun to hang out in be a part of. And of course add free versions of all of the shows. That's gonna be, I think that's more and more important as time goes by because people, if you want privacy, it's, we don't wanna leak your information. We never will to advertisers. But advertisers are demanding to know more and more and more about our audience.

And we're trying to balance that. You know, if you've got an ad free show, you don't have to worry about that. There is a tracker free and ad free version of our shows. I'd frankly like to be doing that all the time for everything. And and if Club Twit grows, maybe we can, you want to join. We'd appreciate it. We'd love to have you in there. There's individual plans, there's family plans, there's even corporate plans. Go to twit, do TV slash club twit. And thank you in advance for the support. I think it's time to wrap up this fabulous episode. Oh yeah. I'm gonna be doing a little Python over the week, actually. I've been doing it all along. Taking that inky impression. And I'm going to write a program that will draw the time. I guess I'll start with the time of day as an image and then load it up into the inky impression once a minute.

See how that works out. We're gonna use Python in the, in the Pillow library, which is a Python image library. So maybe we'll have that next week if, if not the week after. We'll, we'll show you some of that. Take a step a step forward with our our Raspberry Pie. Who's on the show next week too. Is it? Is it time for we've got two folks on the show. Two folks. We've got a very rich, you've got Scott Wilkinson and Johnny Jet. This man knows all <laugh>. It's probably cuz you're using that Miro thing that we put together. Oh, Johnny, Jen and Scott Wilkinson next week. That'll be a lot of fun. Yeah. And for folks who are fans of the early days of Ask the Tech or rather for the Tech Guy Radio show it's going to be a unique episode next week because Leo will be hosting it solo.

You're not gonna be here. No, I won't be here this Sunday. Oh. It'll be like the old show. I'll have to do it all. All the heavy lifting <laugh>. Oh man. This one, two guests. So that's good. That's good. Okay. Maybe I won't do the Python thing next week. <Laugh>. I might just be rooted to the chair. Where are you going? Are you going somewhere fun? Yeah, I'm going to my happy place. <Laugh> always a good place to go. Your happy place. And you know what's nice? The airfare is fairly affordable. Yeah, it's pretty affordable. Exactly. <laugh>. Well have a good time in your happy place. Thank Mike, you, Sergeant. We will see you in two weeks. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. We will see you however next week. We do ask the tech guys every Sunday afternoon. Actually it's afternoon for some morning for us, 11:00 AM to 2:00 PM Pacific Time.

This two to 5:00 PM Eastern Time. That's let's see, 1800 utc, the live We turn it on as soon as we get into studios. So it may be a little earlier than that, maybe a little bit later than that. But roughly around that time, live TWiT tv. If you're in there watching us or listening to us, then you should probably be in the chat room at IRC dot TWiT tv chatting with all the other folks. Or you could join us in the Discord. That's my happy place. If you're a Club Twit member we will be back next Sunday. I hope you will too. I'm Leo Laport. And I'm Micah Sergeant. Thanks for joining us. Have a great geek week Byebye. Bye-Bye.

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