All About Android, Episode 570, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Jason Howell (00:00:00):
Coming up on All About Android It's me, Jason, Howell, Ron Richards, Huyen Tue Dao, and our guest Father Robert Ballecer, not on Zoom, but sitting next to me here in the studio. And we got a lot of great news to talk about Android 13 preview two is out. Google I/O gets a date, but no one's going to Shoreline. At least a few people are, but we're probably not Xiaomi's CyberDog, and that's pretty cool. Android messages and dialer sharing data without your permission. Is that okay? Plus your email and a whole lot more next on All About Android!

Narrator (00:00:34):
Podcasts. You love From people you trust.

Jason Howell (00:00:41):
This episode of All About Android is brought to you by Checkout.com. Modern businesses need flexible payment systems that can help them adapt to change, grow and scale fast. Discover how checkout.com can help your business thrive at checkout.com/android. Hello, welcome to All About Android. This is episode 570 recorded on Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022. Your weekly source, for the latest news, hardware, and apps for the Android Faithful. I'm Jason Howell

Ron Richards (00:01:13):
And I'm Ron Richards.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:01:15):
And I'm Huyen Tue Dao.

Jason Howell (00:01:16):
Oh yeah. The three of us are here, but actually three plus one, because we got Father Robert Ballecer, not only on the show, but in the studio.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:01:24):
And I'm wearing pants and he's wearing pants, thankfully, because we're sitting at the same table. That might be a little weird if you weren't.

Ron Richards (00:01:33):
So it is so great to see Father Robert, both on the show, but also in person. And I quickly did the math. The last time Father Robert, you were on the show was January 14th, 20. Whoa. So it was right before, right before everything right

Ron Richards (00:01:48):
So it's been, it's been two over two years since you've been in that share or on the show in any capacity.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:01:55):
Well thank you for looking that up. And actually that was the day before I flew back to Rome and after CES, after CES, and then like the next week we were locked down, that was the start of everything

Ron Richards (00:02:05):
Yeah. Cause Italy Got it worse than we did, right? Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:02:07):
Yes. Earlier. Right. Everything was happening a few.

Ron Richards (00:02:10):
I remember I have a, I have a friend who lives outside of Rome and she texted us like end of January, beginning of February and was like, Hey, this is really the real deal you guys should be careful. Like it was like, it was one that was the first kind of like, oh God, this thing is coming, came from Italy. So

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:02:24):
No, I was texting all my family because I'm like, look, don't pay attention to what you're hearing from the news. This is actually happening. Like we have people dying also. I, I will say if I had delayed my trip by three days, I would've been stuck in the United States. Oh, during the lockdown. No way. Aw, whoop. Okay. Now, now I guess the question that I ask, but I don't know if you wanna answer. Would, would you, would that have been a good or a bad thing? That would've been a good thing. Would've I would've loved that. I would've, I would've spent the quarantine on the beach actually in San Francisco, they shut down all those streets and they made like lots. So you could pick a lot on the beach that was separate from everyone else and just spend the day watching the ocean. Yeah. Wow. That's nice. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's kinda like when you go away for vacation and then you can't fly back cuz like your flight is delayed till tomorrow. So you get an extra night that except a lot longer. I di circumstances that'd be excellent. Yeah. Wow. We that we digressed fast. It's okay with this. What we do here.

Ron Richards (00:03:22):
I'm not surprised, you know, cuz you know, you're, you're an old hat at this

Jason Howell (00:03:26):
Aggression. Yes, exactly. It's kinda what you well practiced in that, in that hard form.

Ron Richards (00:03:31):
Before we get started, Jason, we gotta catch up with Father Robert father. Robert, what phone are you using as your daily driver?

Jason Howell (00:03:36):
Great question.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:03:40):
We just talked about this before the show I had been using a more recent OnePlus. What model was that? More recent OnePlus. Sixt. Sixt. Right, but still worked great. That got stolen out of my checked in luggage. Ouch. Charles story though. Least. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:04:01):
Wait, now I should also point out six T may sound like it's really, really old. It was a release October, 2018. That's it's still pretty old. Yeah, it is. But you know, we talked, we've talked recently on this show about, you know, the, the hope that we can get these phones to last longer. Yes. And everything. So you're doing your part.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:04:18):
and now I, I look back into a OnePlus 5T. Wow. And it's working for you. It's it's it's doing it. It's got everything I need. Yes. It's stuck on Android 10, but yeah, it works ish. That's okay. You're missing out on material. You it's really doesn't matter. I know. To be honest, the problem issue I have is that all of the contacts I have for review gear are in the states and it's a different division for review gear in Europe. Yeah. And I don't have those contacts yet, so I'm working on it, but yeah, you'll get, you'll get on the, Xiaomi train.

Ron Richards (00:04:55):
Oh, there's a, there's a language barrier too. Right. So correct.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:05:00):
Cause I speak Italian to them and they just look at me like

Ron Richards (00:05:02):
Exactly. They're like what?

Jason Howell (00:05:05):
No, no, none. The five T released November, 2017.

Jason Howell (00:05:09):
Yes. it's still a great phone. It works incredibly well. I still get two days of battery life off this thing. No kidding. Yeah. Right. When you, when you take care of your phone, it takes care of you. That's what you hope anyway. No, but you're right. I'm prob I mean, I've got my eye on the new Xiaomi. That, that thing looks sexy. Have you ever had a Xiaomi phone as like your daily driver phone? Only as review, but I did have a couple of of them at mobile world Congress back in 2016. I think when I first started looking at them as more than just sort of a knockoff brand and I, I saw promise, I mean, they were making some innovative features. They had a beautiful screen on it.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:05:53):
Some nice battery life, the new models that I've been taking a look at they, I mean they are, they look like class set. I, I hate to say that, but I mean, they, they look like what OnePlus looked like five years ago where they they've got a great price point. It's a phone for everyone. Yeah. True. They're taking care of it. They're updating their software. It's hard to argue with that.

Jason Howell (00:06:16):
The design doesn't look cookie cutter. Correct. We're kind of, we're kind of not in a, in a, in a, in the area of cookie cutter designs right now. It seems like, it seems like doing a design that looks different is, is the trend right? Largely right. So cookie cutter right now must been doing that. Show me, you know, correct. They're all playing around with the kind of the camera. You know, the pixel six, another example of that, they're all playing around with how they can make it look just a little bit different because there was that time when HT had their what was the HCC phone that all Chinese phones be, you know, from that point on were all, you know, aluminum antibody design that still look the same, all of

Ron Richards (00:06:54):
The same. Yep.

Jason Howell (00:06:56):
And things are a lot different now. Well, I mean, look, the cookie cutter design, you have to have a notch in the screen. You have to have like 15,000 cameras on the back of the phone. Yeah. Your screen has to go edge to edge,

Ron Richards (00:07:07):
But the thing, but the thing about that, Jason, going back to the, the aluminum, you know, uni body, you know, every phone, you know, every phone looks the same for that time period when that started, that was welcome. Right, right. Like it is like,

Jason Howell (00:07:19):
Oh totally, no, no question

Ron Richards (00:07:21):
A good on a good design that works. Right. The problem was is that they got stunted in growth for years and didn't try to do anything different. Yeah. Like that was the big problem. And, and Father Robert, to your point, they started adding more cameras, more holes, moving pinhole, like, you know, doing minor little things. It's only, I feel like it's only this year, were we actually getting phones that, that all around look that much different, you know? So

Jason Howell (00:07:44):
Yeah.

Ron Richards (00:07:45):
Oh, phones

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:07:46):
Interesting. I, I actually busted out some of the old phones out of my my storage trailer that I've had through the years. I had like a, one of those HTC, the MDA the danger. Do you remember the hip? I had one of those. I had one of those Nokia phones that had the round dial pad. I, I know of course that's the phone you need to be using right now. Right. Nothing's awesome. I love that thing. But, but I, I was thinking, you know, when you jump from that to an actual smartphone with an operating system, and for me, that jump was to an, an HTC wizard, which was running windows phone. Oh, okay. You know, that's when the paradigm shifted, I'm waiting for the next paradigm shift, you know, foldables, I, I didn't that, that's what they want you to believe. They look cool. Yeah. But is that, is that, I mean, is that the next thing where you're like, oh yeah, this is completely different than what, like 10 years from now, the foldable will be the standard. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that it necessarily will be the standard have, have good. Have any of you used a foldable as a daily driver?

Ron Richards (00:08:47):
No, I not

Huyen Tue Dao (00:08:48):
As a daily driver, just, just playing around a little bit. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:08:52):
It's cool to show off, but I mean, it I don't, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I mean, but, but they've come a long way in a short amount of time. So I don't know what that's gonna look like two or three years down the line. You mean really? Google's gonna, you know, totally pull the rug off from everybody's feet and release their fold ball and it's game over. They're gonna win the smartphone.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:09:11):
We all, we want those pads from the expanse, with the holographic. Yes.

Ron Richards (00:09:16):
I've said it it a lot before. I've said it a lot before. I want the expanse phone. Give

Jason Howell (00:09:20):
Me that. Just that, that would be a paradigm shift actually. No question.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:09:23):
One of my favorite things, little bits of detail from the expanse is the one that, that Miller was using captain Miller. Yes. Screen was cracked just like everyone. Who's had a phone with a crack screen that they've had to hold onto because they can't replace it yet. I'm like, yeah. That's what would happen if your phone was entirely display, you know, turns out, of course you sat on it. Yes. Yes. Well, it's great to have you here because we can, I'm sure we will. This show will be filled with tangents. Yes. I'm a tangent. You're a tangent machine. It's what you are, but let's let's get started. Cause we actually have going through the news today. We got a lot of really kind of chunky stuff to talk about chunky. That's how I describe my news. Let's get into it with the news.

Burke McQuinn (00:10:09):
The only thing that's on my mind is how Padre got the Vaticats through security.

Jason Howell (00:10:15):
Yeah. There's go here with you. They're always with me. Okay. They're in my heart, bro. Right Android 13, preview two in this Cav of Android betas. That is the year 2022. I'm I'm. I'm not gonna lie. I'm getting beta fatigue. I, I think I need to opt out of the beta track and like have some normalcy. I, I, by the way to, okay. Start the tangents. My phone is running. What is the, the latest beta to be pushed out? So it's probably a 12 L beta. I'm guessing. I don't know, like I'm on the beta track for, for the pixel six. I don't think that 12.1 has rolled been pushed out to it yet. I can't remember. Anyways point being now when I make a phone call at somewhere randomly and sporadically it'll, it'll be fine. And then suddenly like the loudest, like the loudest, like screet beep will just sound for like 10 seconds and then it goes back to normal, not okay.

Jason Howell (00:11:14):
So I'm kinda like beta fatigued right now. I think, think that's a feature it's, it's reminding you, you should be texting this. It's like wake up. Yeah. You've been on hold for 20 minutes. Wake up. So Android 13 preview two. We got details of that last week. Just and, and, you know, obviously we're early on with 13, I'm guessing as per usual, a lot of, of like the really big, interesting stuff. If there is any about Android 13 we're gonna hear more about at this event called Google IO, which we totally don't have news to talk about that here and at all minutes at all. But anyways, I'll pretend like we don't. So what we know about Android 13 right now, isn't like the most exciting thing, but you know, what else is new this early on in the, in the developer preview game, the media player is gonna get a redesign.

Jason Howell (00:12:06):
So it's gonna look a little, pretier play button integrated with that more controls, more buttons for control inside of your like shade player. Cuz right now it's, it's a little limited. It's it definitely getting enhanced notification permissions. So a new, I think this is a new addition to the permissions scheme on Android, right? That didn't exist before. No. Okay. but I think, but at the same time, like it's kind of, kind of blows me away that it didn't exist before cuz having a permission setting per app for notifications makes so much sense that actually does exist on the oxygen variant that they use for OnePlus phones or at least alter OnePlus or controls for it. Yeah. Right. Well, no like per app notification controls. There you go. Hey, you know, sometimes Google isn't the first to exactly. Exactly which, which by the way is excellent.

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:13:02):
I love the fact that I can say, you know what, I, I need this app on my phone, but I never wanted to notify me. Yeah. You know, I, there's no reason why this should ever be able to push a message to me. Right. Which is nice rather than turn off notifications or to turn it on. It's like, look, I use Uber, I use Lyft, but don't ever tell me don't ever give me a notification unless I specifically have the app on. I love that granular control. Yeah. And so I almost, I almost want it to default to off. Right. And I'll tell you, when you, as an app can send me a send

Ron Richards (00:13:32):
I'll listen, I'll not, I'll not, I, you I'll send you a notification when it's okay for you

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:13:39):
To notify. Don't notify me. I'll notify you.

Jason Howell (00:13:41):
How do you like them apples, huh? God.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:13:43):
Yeah. I, I will say some days we're a little bit nervous about this because

Jason Howell (00:13:48):
I'm sure I'm

Huyen Tue Dao (00:13:48):
Sure. Yeah. Especially, so it's like, we're all like savvy phone type people and we kind of know where notifications are and we know where to turn them on. But I think there's definitely concern about certain apps where notifications are actually integral, not like fake integral where they, you know, we have very important things to tell you. Yeah. how about this deal? But like actual things. I think I heard here say like say like bank notifications, payment notifications you know, things in this nature, which are actually kind of important and say you have your like elderly parents and they see this, this dialogue and they're like, I don't know, don't allow. And then they don't get actual useful notifications. Totally. There is some concern that if you're not a super user savvy person, that this might be a little bit weird. I mean, for us on tr it, it wouldn't like notification's important in my opinion, but there's ways of kind of seeing them in app because our notifications are not just on the phone, they're kind of like a server based thing. And then we just kind of near them. Yeah. But it, it, you know, like, I, I definitely, without the rest of you where I don't give a crap about 90% of my notifications, but I do wonder like how they kind of make up for that other 10% of the use cases where you kind of need them. Yeah. And maybe some might have like, it, it's kind of weird to see what would happen if someone turned it off by accident and they're not, they don't know quite their way around the notification setting. So,

Jason Howell (00:15:03):
And they don't even know what they're missing at that point. Right? Yeah.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:15:07):
Like

Jason Howell (00:15:07):
You don't even know how important or critical that was because I can't tell you anymore cuz you shut it off. So they need to add a second level of notification of like, are you sure you wanted to turn off the applications, but

Ron Richards (00:15:22):
It could. It could. But also, but if you think about that though, there's no reason why the OS level couldn't still capture the number of as the app is trying to fire the notification, but then the OS is stopping it. And then after some threshold hit you with a, with a notification or a message saying, Hey, Uber is trying to send you notifications, are you sure you want them turned off? Like

Jason Howell (00:15:44):
I, yeah, I like that.

Ron Richards (00:15:45):
Like the, like there's a way to do it elegantly to make you to, you know, presumably make the phone, your friend and be looking out for you and like better your experience which, you know, with assistant and all that stuff, Google claims to be doing in practice. It's a little different though, but I, but I feel like there are ways to manage that user error where they might have killed a, you know, killed notifications on an app by mistake. But we're just not, I don't think we're there yet, you know, but I see the evolution potentially going in that direction. So

Huyen Tue Dao (00:16:14):
I mean even adding like an explanation and I mean, not to say that people just can't fib about, if you give them a space to say, Hey, explain to the user what your notifications are for similar to like other permissions, maybe just making that kind of mandatory, but it's not that doesn't meet. People are not gonna fit and be like really important offers and deals.

Jason Howell (00:16:32):
Right. You're really

Huyen Tue Dao (00:16:33):
Important. This is so critical. It's like that, that junk mail you get that it's like confidential, super secret. You need to read this like open now and it's just, you know, Hey, by the way, do you wanna refinance your loan? Yes. No. Good.

Jason Howell (00:16:43):
Yeah. If it's, this is super important. If you don't log in and, and play diner dash right now, you're gonna lose your restaurant or extend

Huyen Tue Dao (00:16:51):
About all the hungry customers. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:16:53):
You've got five customers waiting for a bagel. You know, this is important. I would be willing to compromise with developers if they were willing to group their notifications into certain categories. Like I, like, I never want to hear notifications from a game. I will always want to hear a notification from a financial app and, and any vendor and any developer who, who violates that trust. They get put into the SIM bin and they're muted automatically. But I mean that that's that's, I think what's missing per app. Notification management is great. I would prefer per category notification.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:17:27):
Oh, I like that a little bit better. That'd

Ron Richards (00:17:29):
Be cool.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:17:29):
That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, because we can, we can't, we do have channels, which is like to your point and like allowing us to do like critical things versus like, you know, more optional marketing type stuff. But yeah. The permission as you, as you alluded to is, is like one and done one for all, all for one. Nope. All for anyway, all or nothing. There you go. All or nothing. One for all I got there eventually all, all, all or nothing. So that would be actually something to be able to do. But then, then it becomes like, what if you have 15 channels and then they have 15 it's it's not an easy problem now that I'm thinking about it. Yeah. I wouldn't wanna code that.

Jason Howell (00:18:02):
Android 14 will see the introduction of Padre's notifications categories idea. You just wait and see it, it Android 15 removes it because it was so abused every well. The articles about that, they were scathing. Every game was like, no, I'm an emergency app. Yes, yes. Yeah. That would be right. Right. I could see that happening too. Per language per sorry, per app language settings, which we've talked about. Expanded haptic feedback at controls, like vibration strength settings for alarms media, all the stuff coming with Android 13, apparently in preview two notification shade improvements, lock screen notifications are gonna get grouped together in this little like smaller icon summary block area. That's hard for me to describe, but trust me do not disturb is gonna be written, named a priority mode, which I'm not entire, that that's clearer, but it's not.

Jason Howell (00:18:56):
Yeah. But I know do not disturb is perfectly clear. It means do not disturb me. It kind of says what it does. Party mode is a little bit more obscure, but I, I, but I understand,

Fr. Robert Ballecer (00:19:04):
well, windows did it thing. I called it focus mode. Yeah. And I'm like, no, no, just do not. Also a new API that lets developers choose if they're smart home control you know, for their smart home app or whatever requires authentication or not. And this solves, this would solve the problem of, if you have Android 12, right now the home smart home controls are on the lock screen. Right. Right. And you can press the button, but in order to make any change to anything that appears there, you then have to authenticate. And it's just, it's not the end of the world, but it's annoying. And this would allow developers to say, no, authentication's not required to turn on your light.

Jason Howell (00:19:46):
Although maybe you want authentication to turn off or on your light. I don't know. But anyway, that's why you have to ices one that needs it. And one doesn't it's, you know, that's what I do. I carry like five form with me everywhere. That's that's smart. I have not at all that has just the Facebook apps on it because I don't want that touching anything else. Yeah. Right. That's how I deal with it. That is smart, actually. That is smart. So that's said right. 13 preview to, in a nutshell, I'm exhausted thinking about installing this thing. I'm not going to I just, I, I want a little normalcy on my phone. Not gonna lie, so I might have to just, are, are you on like the fast track where it's every single beta or are you doing like every other? I haven't been doing every single beta.

Jason Howell (00:20:28):
It's just, there's been so many, you know, there was Android 12 beta all, you know, most of the last year leading right into Android, 12 point one or 12 L 12. Oh. And then that led right into 13 it's. Which, I mean, you know, I'm not, I'm not the target demographic for betas, right? Like, I mean, outside of doing this show, I'm not a developer. So I, to a certain degree, you know, it's not meant for me, but yet I, I don't know. Although I do like that feature that you have in your beta right now, I wish they had it on the the OnePlus operating system where I get that super loud blasting tone. Ah, yeah. That wakes you up when youre hold. Fantastic. Yeah, it's amazing. And then it, like, I had the experience where I, I waited for an hour for someone to, to make a change, to like my health benefits and you know, it was counting down.

Jason Howell (00:21:13):
It was like your 13th in line. You're 12th in line. And then I, I kid you, I kid you not, I got to the point to where the, the operator, the, you know, automated operator said, you are next in line and probably you about 10 seconds after that. And then it clicked off and it hung up, oh, dear hour, are you sure that was the phone? And that wasn't just them going, no, we don't wanna talk. I don't know. Yeah. Could have been, but then it happened on other calls. I was like, damn you phone. So we alluded to Google IO and then we moved right on and went in our tangent Fest or back to it when

Huyen Tue Dao (00:21:53):
Yeah. And guess what, Google I is gonna be around for 20, 22. And guess what it's gonna be at shoreline amphitheater. Whoa.

Jason Howell (00:22:00):
You mean,

Speaker 7 (00:22:00):
We all get to go to shoreline party. I

Huyen Tue Dao (00:22:03):
Can't no one just shoreline and party because it is a virtual event. Live. At least the keynotes will be live from shoreline Amita. I got really confused. Actually. It was confusing. Next. It was Wednesday after the show, this very confusing tweet from Sunar came out. And I, I, my, I failed my reading comprehension a little bit because if you read the tweet queerly, it did say, what did he say? Live

Jason Howell (00:22:26):
Will be back, live from shoreline

Huyen Tue Dao (00:22:29):
After shoreline amphitheater.

Jason Howell (00:22:30):
Right.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:22:31):
Right. And I took that as like, oh, shoreline. That's like, that's like a, that's like the festival place. That means festival. That means buts in like actual seats now. No. So I will again be virtual at virtual event, but rather than being at the Googleplex, it will be at shoreline amphitheater. Again, at least the keynotes will be live from there, including kind of like the big keynote as well as the developer keynote kind of all the big, big things. But the rest of the content will be prerecorded. They will again be doing the, I guess, do we call it the IO verse this year? Since now, everything is a verse. Like last year they had a, they had a virtual. Yeah. They had a last year. They had the I venture, which was kind of this, you know, top down like virtual sandbox world where they tried to make up for the lack of community networking party aspect you know, talking in person to Google or asking questions that wouldn't be with a virtual event and trying to make up for it with this I adventure, where you created your own avatar, did

Jason Howell (00:23:28):
You participate in the IO adventure

Huyen Tue Dao (00:23:30):
Or not? I was like the one duty who was like too cool for school and didn't do it. And I kind of regret doing it, but you know, you can get badges, you can get the other things, but you will be able to virtually ask Googler's questions, see product demos, you know, be able to kind of maybe even do like, I think labs and stuff like that. So that's the thing. And that will be kind of again, the IO verse. So we'll, you'll have that. And then yeah, the rest of the content will be prerecorded as usual on probably live streamed as last year. And does anyone else do like the, the dang announcement puzzles? Like when you see like the Google developers or

Jason Howell (00:24:05):
I do, I love those things. I don't usually, because by the time I, I see the announcement and get to the puzzle, somebody's already solved it,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:24:14):
Solve it. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:24:16):
I'm not gonna, yeah, no, I did not do it. Did you?

Huyen Tue Dao (00:24:19):
No, I'm not smart enough for that. I, I, when, when it used to be that if you solved it, you would get like it to, I get to IO. Yeah. Cause they're so hard to get. Right. I think a lot of us would work a little bit harder, but I saw that I was like, no, I'll do Wordle. It's fine. Just, just let me know of the thing. I'll wait a couple days and see the thing. But

Jason Howell (00:24:35):
Let me ask, let me ask everyone, do we miss that, that moment where they make the tickets online and everyone's just refreshing, refreshing, refreshing. No, no, we don't miss those milk, correct? No, no, no.

Ron Richards (00:24:48):
Don't miss that moment at

Jason Howell (00:24:49):
All. Not in the slight. No. And, and the kind of panic of like, I don't know if I'm going, am I gonna get it? Am I gonna get in? No, my favorite was when you actually got it and you got to the order form and you were ready to check out and then it craps out because it's over. Yeah. All of those things, we don't miss those. Having said that, I still wish that it was in person, cuz I would love to love that. It says with a limited live audience, that's true. Cause they want to give some, you know, feedback to the keynote people. So who decides yeah. Have they revealed who that limited audience is? Is it just insider? Google goly

Huyen Tue Dao (00:25:23):
People. I I've heard tell from like basically like Google adjacent like developer programs that they might have local. I mean, I assume there's gonna be some set of Googlers there that that kind of was who is the, the, like the eight people around Sunar and the other speakers at the, at the I keynote last year were kind of some Googlers I've heard. Yeah. That maybe some Google adjacent folks like maybe experts maybe in the area, like the, I don't think they want anyone to travel. They might the, that they might have a few people, those people, but it'll just be a select audience. I E not most of us.

Jason Howell (00:25:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Like, like unlikely to be. Yeah.

Ron Richards (00:25:58):
Well, listen, we, we had flirted a couple weeks ago with if IO was in person that we would all like, who knew and I would fly in and flow would come out, come down and we do it kind of together. So just because they're not having it in person, I don't think we should abandon that idea. So listen, Jason, when Father Robert, if you're around flow, if you're listening, watching, come to New York, you guys can hang. I got tons of room. People do it. We'll do it here in New York.

Jason Howell (00:26:23):
That camera that you're on right now is wide enough. I'm sure we could just like all sit. Somebody

Ron Richards (00:26:28):
Can sit there, right? Like I can adjust it. It's fine. Yeah. So,

Jason Howell (00:26:31):
Oh, that'll be even wider. That's that's I mean, we've got an entire campus in Rome. Oh, better. Even better. Easier, easier. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:26:44):
And cheaper too. It's cheaper. And we've got, we've got actually right now international flights are ridiculously cheap. Yeah. If I were all flights are to New York, it would cost me $8,000 from San Francisco. I just book a trip from Rome to San Francisco round trip for $480. Wow. You kidding me? Wow. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So then I guess we're over Rome. Yeah. So Rome for Google IO, peace cake we'll make that happen. I should mention that we are going to do live coverage of the keynote for sure. Here at TWI Woohoo. Obviously we don't have any real actual details on when that it's gonna be other than very likely to be on the first day, which is May 11th. So consider May 11th in the morning sometime we will be doing live coverage and of course talking about that on all about enters May 11th of Tuesday, May 11th, 2022. I did not look this up. I, why is my Google not working? I, I don't know. It is a Wednesday. It's a Wednesday. Oh, oh, thanks a lot, Google. Thanks. Yeah, appreciate it. Well,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:27:50):
I, I will mention real quick that not only will like the general public be absent from like the Googleplex and Google IO, but there are some actually very important celebrities that are actually missing now from the Google complex. And that is all of the dessert Android. I, if you've ever been to the boot campus and gotten to take a tour around, they have those old, like statues of all the dessert Androids, you know, built up really nice and big, you know, I'm, if you've ever been, you've probably gone and taken pictures. I have a picture of, they took them myself next to took. They took them away. It was a little unclear why right now the story from Google is that they're being repaired and held in storage. The Google is working on that really freaking huge new office. And so the implication is that they're just gonna be stored and perhaps we'll find a home with a new place, but who knows, especially people are a little bit nervous since, you know, we've, they've unfortunately given up the dessert naming scheme

Jason Howell (00:28:39):
That maybe it's kind of history

Huyen Tue Dao (00:28:40):
Taken out the pasture or something else that hopefully it's not the dumpster. Yeah. Gotta

Ron Richards (00:28:47):
Move on. Well, they probably a good refurb. I mean, it happens, it happens all over the place, you know? Like you gotta they're out in the elements. They're gonna clean 'em up repaint. 'em I'm sure they'll, I'm sure they'll resurface. I do miss those desserts though. Oh man.

Jason Howell (00:29:01):
Tea lime is

Huyen Tue Dao (00:29:01):
My favorites really fun.

Ron Richards (00:29:02):
Yeah. Yeah. So, oh,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:29:04):
Look at that kind of frozen yogurt, but yeah, they do. Hopefully

Jason Howell (00:29:07):
They'll be back if they were real. I'd totally eat them right now.

Jason Howell (00:29:14):
Yeah. I hope they, I hope they come back. I also kind of understand if they don't like it's kind of Android history at this point, the Android has, well, I mean, I think depending on who you ask, Android has evolved to a different place where, you know, that kind of like cutesy kind of desserty thing. That's a different era of Android. Now. Now Android's trying to be a lot more serious, a lot more. What, what would today's statue be? Would it be like a, a screen saver with like matching icon colors or something would

Ron Richards (00:29:43):
Be really, it would be the material, whatever material you is. It'd be like those Be like, yeah, the big, you know, the big kind of blob thing,

Jason Howell (00:29:49):
The color, it would be a color picker that matches the colors of the actual like environment there.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:29:56):
That's really funny is that even though they abandoned the dessert naming for Android versions, Android studio actually has adopted rather it's it's Android. Studio's gone the opposite rather than having kind of like numbered, like properly numbered releases. Well, I mean, cuz they still do that, but now all the Android studio versions now have code names, so it was Arctic Fox and then bumblebee and now chip monk and then dolphin. So it's like, I guess they left. Yeah. So, so Andrew ASID is doing it, but with animals

Jason Howell (00:30:23):
And those are also delicious. So at least it's happening. Yeah. A little

Huyen Tue Dao (00:30:27):
Bit, a little bit. Squirrly not squirrly little, little what do do you call it? Little stringy game. There you go. Game. Oh, in dolphin. No, no dolphin. No,

Jason Howell (00:30:35):
I've

Huyen Tue Dao (00:30:35):
Read. That's a bad thing.

Jason Howell (00:30:37):
Yeah, probably good idea. Not to, yeah.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:30:39):
I know you dolphin

Jason Howell (00:30:41):
Any who Ron save us.

Ron Richards (00:30:43):
Yes. I'll save you. So whenever there's a new IO on the horizon, whether it's virtual or in person or not, it's always fun to look back. And what was previously announced to see if it actually ever happened or not? And here we are nearly a year after being announced last year, Google IO, Google announced a new feature of search that would the deletion of the last 15 minutes of search history on Android. And this is finally rolling out for Android users and worth noting iPhone users got this feature last summer. So but all you need to do is open the Google app, tap on profile and find delete last 15 minutes under search history. And I will say, I will say, was gonna wait till the app section, but I'll quickly do this before we know there have been the new version of Chrome, visually different, right?

Ron Richards (00:31:30):
The new version of Google maps, visually different the new version of Google news. I tweeted about this in, in man yells at cloud. They got rid of the top, your top five stories. Yeah. In Google news, I I'm really bummed. Right. And then like on, on Google maps when I opened it up, it's just very busy because now there's all these tabs along the bottom and it opens up default opens up the explore tab, which gives you the latest posts from local guides in that area, which is like, no, I just need to know how to get to

Jason Howell (00:32:01):
This ATM. I just need a

Ron Richards (00:32:02):
Map like you. Exactly. So like social, I, I do, I do like them making changes and things, but like Google news was perfect. Yeah. Don't change it. Yeah. So I dunno, I'm frustrated.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:32:13):
We feel that way. I feel that way about Google photos for a long time. It used to be just simple to get to where I wanted to. And now I've got all this extra information, so

Jason Howell (00:32:21):
Complicated. Well, okay. I know I'm, I'm in the, the minority here, but I still really like Google Hangouts and I, I will be on that until they actually kill the server. Boo. I know, I look, look, I was in voice and then they forced everything to plus and then it went from plus to the hangout long load. I, I settle on on Hangouts and now it's, it's gonna go away. I, I will say the local guide things, they were making a huge push before the pandemic. Yes they were. Yep. Yeah. In in 20 or early 2020, actually during CES Google offered to fly me and a bunch of others from wherever were to do this big, like local guides meetup here in at the Google campus. So they were actually gonna do a week long push to really enforce that. We want you to be writing local reviews.

Jason Howell (00:33:09):
Now of course the pandemic has screwed that up, but I know that team is still working at it. They still really want to, to make that a big thing. Yeah. Yep. But it doesn't make sense. It's gonna be slow going for a little while. I think they might be starting to ramp that up at this point, but they got ways to go. All right. Let's take a break and thank the sponsor. And then we will get back and get into some hardware news and a whole lot more coming up. This episode of all about Android is, is brought to you by checkout.com. Tech should be groundbreaking. It should promote innovation. We talk about innovation with tech all the time, especially on this show, cuz we're seeing it all the time. Traditional payment systems actually have heavily layered disconnected, and they are often perceived as a cost center to the business and businesses need flexible payment systems that can help them adapt to change, to grow to scale fast.

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You can count on as you navigate the complexities of an ever shifting digital world just keeps on shifting. As we've seen very recently with checkout.com, you're gonna get global optimization. So that means they provide local acquiring in multiple geographies, improving authorization rates, lowering costs as well. You get transparency. So their fee structure is super clear. It's straightforward and their in-depth reporting actually gives you visibility no matter where you operate, you also get local expertise. They have a dedicated local teams that bring regional international and regulatory expertise that allows you to navigate market complexities with confidence and you get strategic partnership. They actually take a collaborative, personalized approach to solving complex problems for their merchants and ecosystem partners. Checkout is awesome. And for anyone out there that's looking to give their payments system, their payments, approach, a boost, and be modern and current that that's why you need checkout dot. So discover how checkout.com can actually help your business thrive. All you gotta do is go to checkout.com/android. That's checkout.com/android. And we thank checkout.com for their support of this show. All right up next. And that is actually right now it's hardware time. Let's jump in

Ron Richards (00:36:49):
All righty. Well, long time listeners a show know that I am a big fan of the midrange. I think that a healthy Android E ecosystem is bolstered not only by flagships, but by midrange on affordable phones. And now it's nice to see Samsung re-upping their commitment to the midrange with the galaxy a 53 the latest in one of its best selling series in the mid range. This phone's got a 6.5 FHD plus super Amy display and 120 Hertz running the XOs 1280 processor with six gig Ram and a 5,000 Milant battery. It's got 5g and IP 67, 4 cameras, you know, earlier we were talking about all those cameras they throw in phones. It's got a 64 megapixel primary, a 12 megapixel ultra wide, five megapixel, macro, and five megapixel depth camera. And it's in the same price range as the good old pixel five a you can get this phone for $450, which is completely affordable. Nice. So for some, for most people, I mean like it's in the mid range, I'm sure some people, this might be expensive, but this is something they could, you know, save up for. You know, it all flows very nice range, but but nice to see thousand dollars phone from Samsung.

Jason Howell (00:38:01):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And actually I guess on the a 52 the, the last year's model Samsung wasn't basically Samsung has extended their support right. For this device versus what they were before. So I think that's four years of major OS updates, five years of security, which kind of ties in with what we were talking about earlier. And what we continue to talk about on this show is this idea of like getting more longevity out of our devices. It's nice to know that you don't have to spend a thousand dollars or something to get that longevity, right? Like that that's a been a, a concern. And a question that I've had is like, you know, a lot, a lot of people aren't buying those mid-range phones or the, the cheaper phones, but, but we still want those phones to last as well. And it's easy to think of them being, you know, having a lot less capable hardware.

Jason Howell (00:38:50):
So how could that possibly survive five years, at least in this case, Samsung still plans on, on offering it great support for five years. So that's great. I, I mean, this, this phone is five years. I know this is the five year old phone there, you know, but it's stuck on Android 10. So I mean, it would be nice for sure. Exactly. Although if that was upgraded over time, would it be as good a phone? Probably not. I've been, it would be, but would it be a good experience? Cause it, right now it actually is still snappy. There's it's, it's, there's nothing about this phone that says, oh my gosh, I have to upgrade this other than the fact that at five years, I know it's life is very limited. It's probably not gonna last much longer than it is right now. This, this new Samsung, I, I love the fact that it's got a a refresh ammo lead.

Jason Howell (00:39:36):
I didn't used to think that make made a difference. And then I, I got to do a a review of an ASU phone that had one of the 101st 120 Hertz displays. And I fell in love with it. I love high refresh displays. I, and I can't even tell people why, other than the fact that when I go back to on high refresh display, even if it's pled, it just doesn't look the same. I just didn't like it anymore. Yeah. I just get used to it. I remember having that with the, with the move to HD displays, same thing, actually, it was the same thing, you know, there for the longest time, our displays were pretty fuzzy by comparison with what you get now. And what was the first phone? Was it the, was it the, no, it wasn't the Thunderball. I can't remember.

Jason Howell (00:40:18):
But the first phone that I used that, that had that like HD quality. I remember looking, I, I specifically remember looking at the icons on the home screen and one of 'em was like a photo of, of like one of my contacts and being like, that looks like it, like, it looked like I was looking at a real person, like it looked so sharp that looked like a real person just miniaturized and not a photo. And I don't know how to explain it better than that, but now our eyes are adjusted this, right. Like it's just, that's just our phones. I know now it's now a phone that I thought looked incredible five years ago. I'm like, oh God, doesn't have a 20 peasants phone. We change so quickly. So good on you, Samsung. Yeah, indeed. All right. When

Huyen Tue Dao (00:41:05):
Yeah, well, let's, let's talk about what's in the phones and we can talk about chip sets. I know everybody loves talk about chip sets, but it's pretty interesting because cons so say it's counterpoint research released to report based on like global model sales. And what's really interesting. Well, there's a couple things that are less interesting looking at the system on chips SOCs that have been sold in 2020 2021 it's unsurprising that Qualcomm leads both the mid to high to premium flagship. Yeah. Share of SOCs. So their, their, their chips kind of make up the vast the quite a sizable majority plurality. What's the right word here. Yeah. There are a lot of Qualcomms chips out there in flagship phones with media tech, holding a good grip on the low to mid, to, to mid low range or mid low, low to mid low range.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:41:55):
But what's really interesting is that little green sliver there on the corner in, on the sides there on the flagship and those, yes, those are tensor chips in the pixel six and pixel six pro. So obviously it's not like they've upset the market, but it is interesting to see Google having its own chip. And, and that, that ship is actually making a dent in, you know, kind of what could be thought of as like a foregone conclusion of, you know, Qualcomm dominating. And of course, Samsung does have a sizable share actually reading this. I didn't realize that the Samsung S 22 has a different chip, depending on what country is shipping the phone. Yeah. If you,

Jason Howell (00:42:33):
That, that's, A's relatively standard thing that Samsung does at least with its flagships. I know when they release their S series devices in the us, it has the Qualcomm chip, they release it overseas. It has their in-house ex Ando chip. And I don't, and I still never understood why if, if they are all about their own chip, why aren't they all in on their chips here in the us? Isn't that a technology export control is it, is it, there are certain, there's certain levels of, of chips that you cannot ship in or out of countries. It becomes very difficult for you to do it. Oh, okay. They considered like tensor chips, especially since they, they could be used for super computing that they're, our export would be restricted. Oh, interesting. Right. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, you're right. You kind of wonder why they don't dog food on apple dog foods.

Jason Howell (00:43:24):
Why not exactly. That's, you know, Samsung often seems like it really wants to be apple in a lot of different ways. Right? Like it wants to have what apple has. And that's what, one way that seems like a no-brainer to me, like they've, they've spent, like, it's not like they produce horrible chips. Like they do an alright job. I, I don't know if that they're the best or the best, but they do good enough that like I would understand if Samsung was just like, you know what, going forward, we're just using our chips. I get it. But now this data must be other might be a little bit outdated. So I have some ins with some RF engineers. And what they were concerned about with Samsung's previous generation of chips is that they were very noisy. So that was always an issue. When you were doing design, if, if the rest of your design wasn't super, super clean, you would be messing up everything from the RF side of the, of the phone to battery consumption. So Samsung has fantastically fast chips that work great in the lab and they benchmark well, but when you start combining them with other components, it can get a little dicey.

Ron Richards (00:44:26):
I mean, it's almost like they have to throtle games and apps then.

Jason Howell (00:44:29):
Huh? Correct. Yeah. I have to make it all work nicely together. Oops. Oops. But that doesn't happen. That's all theoretical.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:44:38):
That's really interesting though. Is, is that so much of what happened with, was it the RTX 30 eighties or one of the high end, like Invidia cards where I think like, like, like the, all my PC gamer terminology just flown right at my head, as soon as I opened my mouth. But that like, kind of like the stock founder dishes were great. Had planing bonus with then you had like cheaper OEMs re

Speaker 5 (00:45:00):
Reference edition, like

Huyen Tue Dao (00:45:01):
Reference. Thank you. Thank you. Burke reference chip. Yeah. But then when you got to like cheaper OEMs, they didn't have like, the rest of the cards did not kind of, they weren't up to snuff into, of keeping the noise down. And then people were like having like their cards, like shut off and stuff, or that cards like all that terminology, just, you know, just out the window, it's

Speaker 5 (00:45:18):
A reference design. It's like a best practices.

Jason Howell (00:45:21):
I mean, when, when you're doing reference designs, it's super clean. I mean, this is like the bare minimum. This is how we make it work, but that's not how any OEM will ship their gear. They're always gonna add something cuz they wanna differentiate what they've done from everybody else. But that also means that if they didn't pay attention, the thing that they added actually is counterproductive. It's, it's messing up your performance. So the, the rule of thumbs is that discretion. So having discreet parts that work properly is incredibly expensive. And so if it, anytime you start getting a product that isn't at the super high end, it means they've probably skimped on that testing phase. Mm interesting. Yeah. So gamer people were noticing same chip, same specs, same everything, same drivers. And you had two cards that were performing noticeably different. Interesting. one, one thing I, I do wanna point out as far as this chart is concerned. Cause I know some people, well, no, actually, yeah, it was Brooke who, who I heard mentioned something about like, not necessarily taking the world by storm, by seeing Google there, it should, it should be pointed out. Like this is a 20, 21. This is last year. Right? Right. The only phones that this, this actually to takes into consideration is the pixel six and pixel six pro, which released right at the end of the year.

Ron Richards (00:46:38):
But also, but, but also like to, to that point, just, I wouldn't even expect them to show up on the shots.

Jason Howell (00:46:43):
That's kinda where I was coming from. Yeah. Yeah.

Ron Richards (00:46:45):
Totally. And like, cuz the thing is like media tech and Qualcomm are, are, you know, like I, I could buy a media tech processor and launch a line of phones, you know what I mean? And that can be counted in the Canada. This they're they're, they're a they're chip provider. Google is not making the tensor chip available to me and my line of phones the way media tech is. Yeah. so, so yeah, so I I'm with you Jason. Like I I'm shocked to see Google, even register a percent on this chart. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:47:12):
I'm sure after this year that's gonna be, that's gonna be a good amount born and look how look where it's showing up. That's where you want to be. If you're a chip manufacturer, you wanna be in the high end, there is no margin in that $99 phone. And there's a reason why a lot of the players don't go down there because you just can't make money unless you're selling millions of them. That high end, that $900 plus phone. Yeah. That's even a sliver of that is worth more than that entire low level.

Ron Richards (00:47:39):
Right?

Jason Howell (00:47:40):
Yeah. Interesting. What, we'll see what this says a year from now when I'm sure we'll, let's get,

Ron Richards (00:47:48):
Put a reminder. Let's put

Jason Howell (00:47:51):
Check

Ron Richards (00:47:51):
To check this one account.

Jason Howell (00:47:53):
Remind me in a year at Google IO, 2023, which will be live. It will, it will be live. Everyone will be going no,

Ron Richards (00:48:00):
No know what I'm know what I'm really looking forward to. Whichever one of us puts that in our calendar in a year from now, we're gonna see have a reminder come up that says like chip set counter. What is

Jason Howell (00:48:13):
That? Oh totally. They'll be like

Huyen Tue Dao (00:48:15):
A slack bot for this actually do a slack bot.

Jason Howell (00:48:19):
That would be, that would be terrible if you get to next year and there's an episode of all about Android and that notification comes up. We're gonna be doing Google IO live looking at this and you, oh, I remember before Ron turned into a zombie painting in New York, it was terrible the before times part two the actual before times. Yeah. Yeah. Right. This last one that I put in hardware hardware was the one block that I was kinda like, eh, I'm struggling to find a few things here, but I thought you would appreciate this Padre. So I put this in really for you. It might not even run Android. I doubt this thing has anything to do with Android other than SHA me created it. But whatever, we're gonna talk about it anyways. Apparently Xiaomi has a robo dog. I didn't realize this.

Jason Howell (00:49:04):
They apparently announced this last August. Oh fine. And it, and it, it got past my, you know, my sense, but it made an appearance at mobile Congress. It's too bad. You weren't ATS BC. I'm sure. You know, it was my backyard too. Yeah. It could have just taken a one hour flight. Yeah. You could have hung out with the Shami cyber dog, which has total Boston dynamics kind of Nope. Qualities to it. Nope. Maybe not as industrial looking, but the bow was cute. Okay. That was a real, this is not cute. I'm looking at this going okay. I'm gonna weaponize that. The first thing I do is I weaponize this that's sensor. This looks like little bearing down. Do you remember that? That Tom Selleck movie runaway? Oh yes, yes. Is with

Huyen Tue Dao (00:49:46):
James Simmons. Yes, exactly. We brought this up. Actually we talked about this two months ago. Yeah, we

Jason Howell (00:49:50):
Did. We did. You're right. This is keep coming up

Jason Howell (00:49:54):
Because I own music. I own that Inver and that's, it's horrible. That's why that's what it is. Burke is the reason why it came up the first time. That's right. So there you go. There's the cyber dog. It stomps around autonomously apparently. Thanks to 11 onboard sensors that you could see there. It has an Invidia Jetson, Xavier NX platform that manages all that somehow it can be controlled by an Android app. So there's your Android hook. There's an app that controls it with two virtual joysticks until it decides it no longer wants to be controlled. And that's true. Autonomously re roaming through your house takes it, grabs the phone out of your head and jumps on it. Crushes it. It has a follow mode. Imagine like assigning to this dog to someone follow. Cool. That's look, I, on the techy side, I love the fact that they're taking some of the technologies that we first saw with Boston dynamics.

Jason Howell (00:50:47):
Yeah. Big robo dogs. And they're making it accessible. Oh actually I shouldn't even say accessible because this is a prototype. Yeah. but it is interesting that you can now start taking that technology and putting it into other applications. It was the same thing with, there was an Android at CES. Not, not Google Android. So like, and Android. Yes, yes, yes. That was using machine learning and it was having conversations with people. Yeah, that's right. It's like, okay. It's, it's hokey right now. But you can see, this is way beyond what we thought we were gonna be doing 10 years back. Well, especially like hokey right now. Right. But 10 years ago, if that had been created, it would've been mind. You know what I mean? It's just for the cyber dog. Here's the thing. Once they develop this to the point where it's affordable and it can carry substantial weight, this would be perfect for someone who says, look, this is my grocery bot.

Jason Howell (00:51:40):
It, it follows behind me. And it carries all the things that are heavy that I see as a practical use of. I kind of just see this as like, instead of getting a remote controlled car, I want a little robot dog. Oh, I wanna be able to say, Hey, robo dog, go get me a Coke. I, yes, but we've seen Amazon's take on, on having a robot, get you a dog, a Coke. And it's not that impressive. Let's be honest, but okay. Look. It's cool. Technological. Yeah. Does anyone think that this is a, a companion? This is not a companion, right? No, not yet. Yet. It doesn't have any fur. It doesn't have a head. Yeah, it doesn't have a head, but then you get the uncanny valley. Yeah. I

Huyen Tue Dao (00:52:20):
Mean, oh, this is totally black. That black, that black mirror episode. Yes,

Jason Howell (00:52:24):
It does have black mirror quality fact. It's called black dog that episode or something

Huyen Tue Dao (00:52:29):
You go, this is how it starts. But I don't know. I, I think Patrick has a good point though, is that, you know especially in places like say Japan, which has a very rapidly increasing, you know, senior population. Yeah. They are already looking into you know, robotics as a way to enhance and provide better care or more care. Yeah. And yeah, like this could be a really good like kind of gap in terms of like helping people with accessibility issues, mobility issues. And no, it's not gonna, maybe it won't be a emotional comfort right. Command, but right. As you said, like yeah. Mobility. Things like being able to do simple tasks like that don't require like little word dexterity than someone might have, or just even safety. Like, like

Jason Howell (00:53:13):
Safety is a big one.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:53:14):
That's something. Yeah. Safety, for sure.

Jason Howell (00:53:16):
If you, if you develop this so that it could do like fall monitoring for elderly, I that's, this is actually something I'd love to get from my parents. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Advise someone, if someone in the house is falling down and can't get up, but then if you've fallen down and you're looking around for help, and then this, this stops up to you. Okay. That's I've got this. Yeah. Shake it off everybody.

Ron Richards (00:53:51):
I like that. We need to clarify that cyber dog is not a companion.

Jason Howell (00:53:55):
Right.

Ron Richards (00:53:56):
So everyone is clear

Jason Howell (00:53:58):
Is not a companion, not hot dog. Well, go look, look, even in this video, there was someone who was petting it. I'm like, you're, you're stroking a piece of a plastic man. Don't don't do that. Stop it. I hear that. It purs. No, I actually don't know.

Speaker 5 (00:54:09):
It's kind of a Japanese thing I think, but oh wait, but it's not Japanese. Mine.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:54:14):
I, I treat, I treat all robots with respect and kindness. Cuz I saw DSX. I'm just

Jason Howell (00:54:19):
Preparing for our robotic overload. She wants this to be video proof. Like no, no I was on your

Huyen Tue Dao (00:54:24):
Side. I've always respect. No, not ne just respects, respect. That's all

Jason Howell (00:54:28):
There. We go's.

Speaker 5 (00:54:29):
This is everybody's chance for the little

Jason Howell (00:54:31):
Testimony. Okay. Then I've got a, then I've got a question for you. When do, when you, when you give Google a, a voice command, do you say please? Yes.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:54:39):
Yes. And I say, thank you.

Jason Howell (00:54:41):
Yeah. There you go. Every time. No, no. I, if I, I repeat the same proof command louder and louder until the, it finally understands what I want it to do. Yeah. I knock it off the counter. I hit it and throw it on the ground. No I don't. I say thank you sometimes please. I, I have renamed my Amazon device to poopy head. That's the one it refers to now. It's you're the first to be eliminated by the robot over Lords. Right? Let's let's well, we've got apps coming up here. So we'll take a, a little pause here and, and think about that. And then we'll jump into apps.

Speaker 8 (00:55:18):
Sorry.

Jason Howell (00:55:22):
It's fine. That was, Hey guys. Confusing. I realized, all right.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:55:28):
Hey guys, what, what do we not talk about enough on this show? Large screens. Tablets.

Jason Howell (00:55:33):
Yeah, I know. You know. Okay. So when I want you to realize something, if you have it already, we, yes. We tend to on this show, find certain assignments for people for the longest time. Simon has been foldables and I mean, you did a Google podcast on tablets. So apparently when I see a tablet story, I assign it to you. And I'm sorry. No,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:55:56):
I mean, it's, it's kind of funny because when we did the Android show and they, at first they were gonna assign me the animation segment and then they're like, no, no, actually I think be cool. Since you're like an external developer for you to talk about large screens. I was like, I think this is just fate. I think this is someone telling me that my life is large screens and that, yeah. I don't know if, if I'm just like the chosen one for large screens or what, yeah. With just large

Jason Howell (00:56:17):
Screens you filled with tablet stories and all about Android.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:56:20):
Yeah. And convincing people that foldables might actually work somehow. I mean, certainly Google thinks that large screens are important. And what is really interesting is that they had mentioned last year that they're going to be kind of making some changes to not just, not just encouraging developers, to implement large Q experiences, not just encouraging us to support them, actually making it count in a way. And part of this is actually looking to in Google play, being able to prioritize and categorize high quality apps by device type. And so basically what's gonna happen is Google play is going to separate out your, your Google app rating by the vice type. So you'll have a separate rating for phones and you'll have a separate rating for large screens. And not only that, that's kind of more on the dev side, but also well, both the dev and the user side, but not only that, this is going to be also a way for you to either differentiate yourself via discoverability by from promotion, like through like things like editors choice and, and kind of like recommendation content that if you have a high quality, large screen experience, you'll get more of those things.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:57:32):
You'll get better promotion. You'll get higher up in certain rankings. And it's interesting because really high quality is nothing to outlandish. At least in terms of what Google has already talked about. High quality is basically all of the large screen requirements and features that they've already encouraged us to use, making sure that your app is well optimized for large screens, that it takes advantage of the space that it supports keyboards and stylists. And hopefully that it will support large screen specific features like drag and drop and, and task bar and all that kind of navigation. And basically, yeah, there will be just a lot more kind of differentiation. And I think this is actually a way of kind of making all of us devs kind of say, okay, it actually matters. And I think that is something that's really important is motivation and in incentive because I, as I mentioned before, many men, men, many devs don't for good reason, have incentive to contribute time and resources to optimizing for large screens.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:58:32):
And kind of on top of that, there's actually a distinction between, I think there's in the Google developer guide. There's actually distinction between high quality. There's basically. Wait, what is it? Large screen. There's actually app quality guidelines that differentiate between large screen ready, which is a basic level. Yeah. Thanks Burke. So there's basically three, two years. There's large screen ready where basically the user can use your app successfully on a large screen. It runs well there's, there's no like functionality that's blocked and it has basic support for peripherals like keyboard, math and track pad. And then there's like another level where you get a little more optimize where you've actually changed layouts to make it look better and to kind of size content well for the real estate. And the best is basically you really created an awesome large screen experience that use a lot of the features that are specific and specialized to large screens.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:59:19):
So basically wherever you end up on this tier is going to affect how your app shows up in the app store. And yeah, it's, they're, they're kind of putting, mm they're kind of putting some accountability in there. And, and as I mentioned, it, it can be hard, especially as a dev at a larger company, when you have someone else making decisions for you, it doesn't always help, but sometimes having this kind of thing to say, Hey, you know, you we've decided not to support large screens, but now our usual will be able to see, Hey, you have a 4.5 star phone app, but your large screen app is 3.2. So it it'll be basically calling you out in a sense for your lack of large screen support. And this is starting

Jason Howell (01:00:00):
Out now and highlighting you in

Huyen Tue Dao (01:00:01):
And highlighting you

Jason Howell (01:00:02):
Do, which could be even a, a bigger incentive because yeah, you know, at least, you know, from my non-developer kind of perspective, it seems like these, these sea changes happen where suddenly, you know, either it's a trend or there's a technology that's, that's new and suddenly developers have the opportunity to jump on the wave of this thing, you know, and, and kind of ride with it. And this seems like an potentially an opportunity to do that. If you are developing an app and you've been putting off creating a, a nice tablet experience, if you do create that now, you know, at least that, that, that the work that you've done will be highlighted and represent to the people who would actually use it and appreciate that. And that could be an opportunity to get even more exposure that you couldn't get otherwise. Absolutely. I, I do like the fact that they're building the tier system in, at the start, because if they didn't, this would've been gamed within the first week where developers would create Jany versions of their apps that would work with a larger screen know high quality screen, just so they could get featured, you know, this way, it's, it's not just making a larger app, right.

Jason Howell (01:01:08):
It's, you've gotta make it worth it to have a larger app. Right's that's like found, you know, the base level is a larger app, but can you make it an even better tablet, app or large screen app? You know, that's really designed with that in mind. And if so, you know, we'll, we'll throw you some extra. Did you just, did you just make your app with larger icons? Yes. That doesn't really count, you know, it's gotta be some functionality what we were thinking. Yeah, exactly.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:01:33):
Yeah. Actually, it's, it's very specific if you are an unoptimized users may get warnings as if, you know, if they, yeah. They actually will warn users about unoptimized large screen app, which is even more a kind of, you know, was that like shooting, like kind of the, yeah,

Jason Howell (01:01:48):
It we've like little and

Huyen Tue Dao (01:01:50):
Making dance,

Jason Howell (01:01:51):
Like, Hey, have you done it yet? Hey, have you updated your,

Huyen Tue Dao (01:01:53):
Have you got it? Huh?

Jason Howell (01:01:54):
Huh? Talent support. Huh? Yeah, it would, it would be a shame of something were to happen to your app specifically on that store. We'd like to avoid that, you know, do you think when do you think that that kind of like negative alert or whatever you wanna call it, is that incentive for, for developers in, in your mind, would that be enough incentive for a developer to be like, okay, fine. I'll finally do it.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:02:19):
I mean, for me it is, but it really depends. I actually was in a group and it, it, it, so for us, we really do care about our app store rating. We watch play store whenever we dip down, like a certain point of see downward trend, we care it's part of our product roadmap, but I was actually shocked to learn. I, I heard another developer at a not unfamous apps say that their product doesn't actually care about operating. So I think that in general, yes, it is going to matter. And it, but it might not always, like, it really depends on the company and it depends on what their goals are and what they're driving towards. And I still feel like if for some reason that company and that product finds no use at all for large screens, they're not gonna care even though it's kind of not a good look.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:03:05):
They, if they say, well, we have a 4.5 on phones, that's all we care about. That's it? That, that I can see that happening. But I do think that it is at least ammunition for either designers or developers to throw at the people who make the decisions that say, Hey, this is kind of a bad look. And like, you know, there's, there's a carrot. I think the carrot and the stick is good here. And for me, yeah, I'm, I, I did actually check the, the broken down operatings are available already. And I did check our place store console to see where we were at. So I don't, we're doing fine, but I would like to we're doing fine. No, actually we are doing okay. But I actually was hoping, don't tell work. I said this, but I was actually hoping for a little bit more discrepancy. So I, you know, just as more way to, so you

Jason Howell (01:03:48):
Could kinda step

Huyen Tue Dao (01:03:49):
Yourself be, but I do think it's valuable. It is valuable. And I, I think that's specifically why they're doing this just because it is really hard. Like it, it is to, to be empathetic towards Google it, like pulling teeth to get devs, to be positive about doing large screens. I'm actually feeling very sympathetic these days to the challenge they have with trying to get devs on board. It is, it is not

Jason Howell (01:04:12):
Easy. I mean, it's been a lot of, it's been a long time of inactivity in, in that priority that that priority is years away is years ago. And now it's resurfacing. So yeah, it's gonna take, it's gonna take stuff like this to really kind of nudge and nudge developers, you know, both awake in that regard, but also to just kind of like reassure them and say, look, by, by the way that work will be worth it, you know? Cause that's, that's

Huyen Tue Dao (01:04:39):
A no yeah. Big challenge. Yeah. Well, I think it's unclear the first it's new, sir.

Jason Howell (01:04:45):
The first, sorry, the first developer who makes the killer app for a large screen phone is going to reap an tremendous reward and they're also gonna drive sales of those large screen phones. So I mean, it's, we are in the proverbial chicken or egg yeah. Situation

Ron Richards (01:05:01):
Here, but the problem, but the problem is, is that it's, it's a enormous chicken that lays tiny eggs. Yeah, exactly like that. Like, and I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, it just takes, it just takes whatever that killer app to get everybody board to it. But it's, it's honestly, like, I hate to say it because everyone knows how much I love large greens and tablets that I want this whole thing, you know, to be real. It's the same thing as AR yeah. It exists. You can do it. Nobody cares. Nobody uses it. Nobody needs it. Right. And so like until we figure out what the need is for any this stuff, it's still gonna languish and linger, you know? And it just, it's frustrating.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:05:40):
I just it's the problem like the, the, with the tier system, like the difference in say developer hours, I'm just, this is a rough, this is just rough me throwing out like tier three where you're just working, could be just a few hours, maybe say 10 hours work. Right. Right. Tier one where you're really like devoting time to designing a feature in making it like super large screen advantageous could be months. Like it, it that's just that problem is that that difference in tier one, which is fine. But tier three, like, sorry, tier three is fine. But tier one is, is, is as you, as you all said is what is probably gonna sell and drive tablet, sales even more or, and drive more interest. And that's the really wreaking hard one and the really resource heavy one. So we'll

Jason Howell (01:06:20):
See. Well, I mean, tier one is almost an entirely other app team. I mean, it's the same app, but you need two development teams because otherwise it is just a small app with a bigger screen. Yeah, yeah, totally. Let's see here. What else do we have a report by Douglas? He is a computer science professor in Dublin says, and people are getting all worked up about, this says that Google's messages and dialer apps are both sending valuable personally identifiable information to Google servers without first gaining user permissions. He did some did some work, did some studying of the da of the, what was going on with these apps said the data that, that has passed along includes hashes of the messages themselves, timestamped data, phone numbers, call logs, both inbound and outgoing call duration. And, you know, he, he kind of pauses in the report, you know, though, not proven that short messages would be reasonably possible to break the encryption on or read the message.

Jason Howell (01:07:25):
I, I mean, I think that's a, like, how do you, I, I don't know. What do you think if, if it's a short message in it's hash, like, is that like relatively easy to break? I don't know that it is, but I guess it's possible. It's possible. But I mean, the bigger question is it's your didn't be doing that period. Right, right, right. Yeah, no question. I live, I live in Europe, I'm protected by GDPR. This is actually legal. Yeah. This, this is the violation. My is doing this. Google can be held accountable and find a tremendous amount of money for doing this. Now, as far as the security is concerned. Yeah, no, they're doing it the right way. It's hashed it salted. It's, it's probably gonna be leaking information. That's gonna be damaging to an individual user, but it still has Google collecting information that they didn't tell you about.

Jason Howell (01:08:08):
Yes. And they didn't let you opt out of which. No, no, no. There's it, it didn't, it wouldn't matter if it was just setting back a single letter of nonsense. It would still not be okay for them to be doing this. Yeah. Yeah. If they didn't get that permission, right. There was no information, no terms of service that indicate this type of data collection or the why, you know, and the, what is it used for? And that's a to stop. Some people are guessing that has to do with, you know, the, the spam blocking, cuz you gotta know what's in and in a message in order to know that it's spam, whatever they'd asked me and they said we use, I would say, yeah, help you. I would love for you. That's a valuable service precisely, but just doing it. No, no. Sorry. Yeah. So it'd be interesting to see where this goes, but I think, I think you're right. I think this, this is a violation of ease GDPR at the very least, you know what this is, this is Google's version of apple and their child porn search feature on iTunes. Oh yeah. This is, this is something where people are like, yeah, you you're probably using it for something good. I could agree with end result. But no, you can't just decide to do that. Can't literally, can't just do it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

Huyen Tue Dao (01:09:23):
That was really funny. We talked about the Google play data safety section that developers had to fill out what you are supposed to specify what you use data for and why wonder what the messages, safety section looks like or who did forget to fill that out at messages? It's says

Jason Howell (01:09:37):
Stuff, right? It says good stuff. Good

Huyen Tue Dao (01:09:39):
Stuff.

Jason Howell (01:09:39):
Good stuff. Yeah. All good things. All good things.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:09:43):
It's fine. It

Jason Howell (01:09:44):
Says fine. Don't be evil. Oh wait. No, we don't do that anymore. Sorry.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:09:47):
Yeah. I don't say that anymore.

Jason Howell (01:09:48):
Yeah. I mean there is the part of me that's kinda like, yeah. You know, I know Google collects a lot of data and everything, so like I'm kind of like, they need information to do some of the services, but it is the not telling. Yeah. Okay. Although at the same time, like would I have known whether right or not, like, it's not like I'm pouring through the terms of service. Here's the thing I'm just assuming. Are we so far down the rabbit hole?

Ron Richards (01:10:10):
Would've

Jason Howell (01:10:11):
Yeah. We just assume everyone's collecting information on us and therefore none of this is shocking and none of it's moves the meter. Yeah.

Ron Richards (01:10:18):
Yes, yes.

Jason Howell (01:10:20):
I, I hate that. We're there.

Ron Richards (01:10:22):
Cause also cause also Father Robert I'll I'll also add in my usual, the Ron caveat, which everyone on the chat room will yell at me about and I'll get stuff like that is that all my information's being sent is in that. Interesting. Yeah.

Ron Richards (01:10:34):
It's just not that, I'm sorry. It's just not like you can read my text. They're stupid Inna nonsense with my friends or like things like that. And it's like, and I barely great. They know that they know that I called my orthopedist office to, to schedule a follow up on my knee. Right. Like, yeah. There's nothing like, like I, I, I don't believe that the majority of people have anything really compellingly interesting and what this data, what this information is being sent to Google. It isn't the specific contents or the data it's times of use length. It's like things like that that are allowing them to continue to evolve these applications. You know, and, and I'll be honest, like it's the same, it's the same thing on the ad side where we freak out about how, you know, are the, is Instagram listening to me and all this sort of stuff. I like me and my wife were talking the other day. There's so much crap around the house that we have bought off of getting targeted ads because they lean that data from us.

Jason Howell (01:11:34):
Can I, yeah, I think I'm, I think I'm, I'm riding on your counterpoint. Can I offer a conspiracy theorist almost counterpoint or maybe not police do, please do so. So, but, but it's, it's actually grounded. In fact, so close to three years ago, I did a think tank exercise with a group of friends from FCON and we worked with at telco that was looking at data coming out of out of protests. There we go. Okay. Yes, we were on the same slate link specifically. They wanted to know if we could de anonymize people who were using burner phones. So it should have been completely impossible for us to identify who individual people were what we were able to do with just data that you can buy from any telco. Any ISP will sell you this, this data because it's supposedly anonymized is we were able to locate clusters.

Jason Howell (01:12:24):
So these devices seemed to move around at at the same time. So we, we figured, okay, that's a social group. Now what we did was we looked at where did those individual people from? And we would only need one within every group to have turned off the real phone, but right before they turned on their burner phone and we were able to associate it with the real phone. Now, once we had the real phone identity, we could find out which individuals that real identity was contacting with. And we could Deon Mize the entire group. Now from, we could go into their social media usage and we could find out these are the things that are in, they're interested in. These are the, the things that they're passionate about. And we could develop profiles on individuals who should be completely anonymous. Now we did this in an afternoon and we actually developed a decent process to do it for the entire data set. So I, I get you individually. My stuff is not that important, but who I communicate also compromises the people with whom I communicate.

Ron Richards (01:13:25):
Yeah. But, but, but again, I will counter that counterpoint that you're talking about a very, very small minority. Yes. And you, you know yes. And like, Lord, no Lord knows. I, I would, you know, emotionally align myself with that minority and would wanna support them and stuff like that. But again, it it's, I, I don't know, you're talking real needle in the haystack stuff.

Jason Howell (01:13:46):
No, I, I get that. I get that. And with consequences, I mean consequences to somebody and if there's a way to do it responsibly or, you know what I mean? So that that's someone that somebody who isn't privileged to be in my position to not be impacted by it then great. Like add in the, the permission so that that person can say, you know what, I've got a lot on the line here. I can't afford to use this phone because if I do my life is in danger,

Ron Richards (01:14:13):
You know? Right. Well, and in that case then you would, I would hope or would imagine that they have the knowledge to know not to not to use it or, you know, and we go back to, this is where we go back to give the users the choice that, you know, like to turn it on or turn it off or do whatever you need to. Yeah. So I'm, I'm right, right there, right there with you in that regard. But from the most people, this doesn't matter. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:14:35):
As an aside, if you are using a burner phone don't post to your social media accounts from the burner phone, Hey guys, this is a burner. Just, just gonna throw that out there. Just gonna, yeah, yeah. Probably bad idea. Yes, indeed.

Ron Richards (01:14:51):
Probably a bad idea.

Jason Howell (01:14:53):
All right. Hey Ron, tell us about apple.

Ron Richards (01:14:56):
You wanna talk more about bad idea? You wanna talk more about bad ideas? Yes. I decoupled my anger at Google news and Google maps changing and stuff like that because this just pisses me off to no end one of the, one of the great kind of delights that I had a, you know, year ago, whatever, when I got to Google TV with Chromecast as I'm installing apps, I'm putting Netflix, I'm putting YouTube TV on it. I was like, oh, Hey, there's an apple TV app for this. Cool. I can watch all this stuff on apple TV on, on my Chromecast device. This is amazing. You know, like from Google TV, that's excellent. Until apple now decided to kneecap it. So apple has downgraded his apple TV app for Google TV, removing the ability to purchase or rent movies and TV shows. Of course they they say you can buy rent or subscribe and the apple TV app on an iPhone iPad and other streaming devices tabs for movie shows and apps are now gone. Apple said we've updated the apple TV app to comply with Google plays, guidelines around purchase and rentals. And many have wondered if this is Apple's way of avoiding. Google's 30% commission on in app purchases which would be pretty ironic in light of the ongoing few, the games and things like that.

Jason Howell (01:16:03):
Don't do what we are doing. Yeah. Soon as I say, none, I do.

Ron Richards (01:16:07):
So now taking a step back, I, I do have an apple TV subscription because I own a Mac and I subscribe that thing. I can still watch, you know, the WeWork show and Ted lasso and like the stuff that's on apple TV, the app still works. What to be clear, what you can't do is I can't go into the apple TV app and purchase or rent a movie or a TV show or apps from, you know, from that kind of thing, which actually once my anger subsided, I was like, I don't do that anyway. Yep. All I'm using apple TV to, to do is to watch the shows that are only available through their platform as a streaming subscription service. Yeah. If I'm renting a movie, I'm gonna Google play. I'm gonna Google TV movies. Like, I'm go, I'm doing it on the Google side, I'm doing it in Amazon.

Ron Richards (01:16:50):
I'm do you know, I'm doing it in other places. I've never once used the applet app on the Google TV to do any of the stuff that they're limiting. So like, it's easy to get all kind of bent outta shape about this, but also I wasn't doing it. So, you know, I don't know how many people were, but like all that content that you wanted that you could do on apple TV is also available on, on Amazon or available on Google. Like most of the stuff is available in wide release. There might be a subset of stuff that's only available on apple TV and that in that case, you've gotta just walk over to your Mac and, and purchase it there and then watch it on the Google TV. But it was just annoying. But like this petty stuff is just stupid. I just, it just drives me crazy. I have very little patient as for it. So

Jason Howell (01:17:29):
This is a great demonstration of why vertical integration needs to be stopped. I mean, the apple or Google, whoever else when they own the content and the pipeline and the device in which you watch it, it's gonna, it's going to create this because if you've invested money into creating that infrastructure, of course, you're gonna wanna make sure that it's protected. You know, it's the same reason why it was a bad idea for NBC and Comcast to come together. It's the same reason why you don't want Google to have its own studio because then they're gonna start featuring their own content over others.

Ron Richards (01:17:58):
Well, they, well, they did that and it didn't work. It

Jason Howell (01:18:00):
Didn't work out.

Ron Richards (01:18:01):
I mean, I mean, they, they had, they had one hit that then they then got rid of and went to Netflix. Right. Well,

Jason Howell (01:18:06):
But see, they, they Googled it. I mean, that's, that's how Googled, I mean, exactly. You've got, you've got other examples of where vertical integration actually does this. The apple is, this is not a unique thing to apple, but it's an inevitable thing. Anytime you have that really long vertical integration. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. And John GU did actually firm, he said via sources that this has to do with, I guess, a, there was an exemption for apple that, that they'd been running on to not use Google's in-app payments. John Gober says the exemption expired. And so apple TV on Android TV is now reader only same as it is for the fireman.

Ron Richards (01:18:51):
So

Jason Howell (01:18:54):
Wa wa there you go. All right, coming up next, you rode into us actually. One of, well, actually a lot of people wrote into us. One of you wrote into us and you're on the show. And then two of you tweeted at us tweeted. That's coming up next in our email section, which is maybe mistitled cuz it's more like feedback because you know, tweets and emails anyways. Okay. AAA twi.tv. If you wanna email us though, and then on Twitter, well, you'll get that at the end of the show and whatever. Sometimes we throw them in there like today, but the first thing that I'm gonna read is an email from Jeremiah, from Toronto. Thank you for including where you're from. Jeremiah says, this is in regards to the episode where you discuss the extraordinary galaxy zoom capabilities to capture the moon, sorry to burst the bubble.

Jason Howell (01:19:44):
But this is one of the gimmicks that Samsung uses as the scene optimizer is on by default, when you zoom into the moon, it activates moon moon that replaces the moon with a stock image of the moon in a similar phase attached is a collage of pictures. I took within seconds. I used my S 21 plus, but this applies to the ultra as well. The one on the left side but is by no means a bad image. If it's by someone's face that I clicked of, but not one worthy of an Instagram post, but the one on the right is beautiful and it's not taken by me. It's a stock image that just happens to be in my gallery. Now for no reason, this is useless to me now that my image is ruined by Samsung's shop automation. And this is yeah. And so you can kind of see the left one has the fuzzy quality to it.

Jason Howell (01:20:34):
Apparently he took that seconds before the right one when the optimizer kicked in. Wow. And you can see differences. I don't know that it's a stock image. My understanding is that they, well, what Samsung claims is that they're using AI, I do sharpen or whatever, which I don't know. So you just scream at the, the screen zoom and enhance. Yeah. That's basically what happens here apparently. But there was an article on the input mag, like last year, I think it was Ray Wong, friend of the show he's been on once before did very extensive article on is the Galaxys 21 ultra using AI to fake detailed moon photos. And I mean time and time again, it's very specific. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, at the time it, that was the phone that he was testing it on, but it seems like Samsung has this on, on any of its phones that have that a hundred X space and sure enough, like that, that phone gets photos of the moon that even like high end DSLRs, can't pull off with a really great lens.

Jason Howell (01:21:38):
So it kind of seems like there's something going on. I, I, you know what I mean? Because that space zoom, it's not getting super solid images of anything else, but with the moon things look sharp and clear. So apparently something's going on. Well, I mean, if it's, if it's AI, if it's machine learning, then it knows what it should look like. And so it's just going on its library, it's going okay. So that crater is over here. So we'll go ahead. It also knows which stock image to get. Well, it doesn't based on the phase it's AI stock. I mean, it, it knows the patterns that you should be seeing from that that inclination and declination it right. Knows what time of day it is and knows what the, the image generally looks like and what the coloring and the tone is gonna be.

Jason Howell (01:22:19):
So it's not that it's fake it's this is what you bought you, you bought a machine learning device. Yeah. This is what machine learning devices do. And I, I would also so ask, would you rather the image that you took on the moon look like crap. Cause if you do, I mean, I could take a couple for you and we'll, we'll be good to go it's that you won't do anything with, I don't know, but, but I don't know. Yeah. I don't do either of you have like an opinion on this, like, is it okay when you take a photo of something for it to be like an improved version of that, some thing, or is that like, like a false advertising?

Ron Richards (01:22:56):
I prefer the original theatrical releases of star

Jason Howell (01:22:58):
Wars who shot first, Ron? Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. But see, look, you're not gonna get a good photo from a phone of the moon of the moon. It just, the optics aren't there. So if the data doesn't exist, you're either gonna get a round circle of, of all smudgy in a smudge. Yeah. Or you're gonna get a improved version,

Speaker 5 (01:23:23):
But it's not a photo of the moon. If you didn't take it. If its it's either it is, or it isn't, there's no nothing

Jason Howell (01:23:29):
In between. Technically none of them are photos because photo is, is referenced to a process that we don't use in digital imagery. If I took out my phone and I took a picture of you and then I looked at my screen and it was, and it was your TWI photo, you know what I mean? Like it mashed, it was like, oh, you take a picture of my, this photos better. And then it like put it there I'd be upset. Oh, okay. Well, but see if this is a specific thing that it knows it can't get, it will never get in the mood looking good. I suppose. So. Yeah.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:23:58):
I dunno like how, how do you compare this to say magic eraser? So this is like adding in detail that, that, that doesn't exist. That is improving something magic. Eraser is also improving it by negating something. I don't think we had the same philosophical discussion with magic eraser because we've all taken pictures where, you know, someone is like, there's a stranger in the background or yeah. There's like dirty laundry. This literally happened. Like we took a picture by east and there was dirty laundry basket next door. So we magic eraser it. So what's the difference there? Cause this is still manipulating some thing and making the reality of the photo or the not the what's in the photo, not reality. So

Jason Howell (01:24:33):
It's a really great point.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:24:34):
The

Speaker 5 (01:24:35):
Feature though, that's that's what it would be

Huyen Tue Dao (01:24:38):
The moon, that's it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:39):
Or yeah, like you take a picture of the moon that the phone can't get. It brings you a result of a better image that isn't in the photo app because

Jason Howell (01:24:47):
It's the, oh, you're saying it in, this could be a, this could be a feature of Google lenses. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 5 (01:24:51):
Like, that's just seems like a logic, a good use of it. Otherwise I just feel feels weird.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:24:56):
Yeah. This is getting to be like Instagram snap filters for, for rather than just being like about beauty and like, you know, making, making like beauty and flavors info have perfect complexion. This is like making your moon perfect. And like, for me it depends like if you just want a nice photo and you don't care that you have a stock moon, that's fine. It's, it's like, is there a way that this could be used to like deceive people? And that's kind of where the, the Instagram snappy filter it into a weird spot where this can be used to deceive someone into thinking that like, if we're marketing reasons or for, for that kind of thing, that people make money off of better pictures and I'm taking this like a little bit farther than, than what's going on here. Makes sense. Yeah. But that, that, that would be my only, QUM like, like, like, you know, this is a tool, how is it used? I don't ne necessarily care myself and I, but I wouldn't. And I wouldn't use it for this reason. I, I kind of just like the reality of what it is, dirty laundry or bad moon or unclear moon or not. But it, it is a step into Deepak in the moon. Yeah. I mean, I kind don't know.

Ron Richards (01:26:03):
It's just Deepak in the mood. I like that.

Jason Howell (01:26:05):
I do too.

Jason Howell (01:26:07):
I mean, that's, that's kind of what it is really. What do you think about it? That's exactly what it is. I mean, as long as you can turn it off. Yes. Yeah. Well that's then, I mean, see, and we come right back around to give user choice. If you're doing something, you know, that that's playing a trick and I don't know it and I'm fooled by it. And then I find out later, oh, wait a minute. That, that amazing moonshot that I shared, you know, all over and everybody liked and everything, somebody just told me, oh, it's, it's amazing because it's actually a stock image. I'd be upset after the fact. And you know what, maybe there needs to be a mark in the metadata that this, this photo has been. This is not real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. But

Ron Richards (01:26:51):
It's, but it's also, but it's also, I will say it's interesting. Cause I gotta look into exactly what my settings are because like I will look at photos. I take with my Google with the pixel six and I'll see the I'll look in Google photos, I'll see the photo and then it will snap and look slightly different. Like, you know what I'm talking about? Have you seen that when like, it looks like all of a sudden a filter is applied to it or like, I don't know if it's like the motion aspect of it or caught the couple

Jason Howell (01:27:18):
Could be the motion aspect. That's what happens when they make a change in the matrix band? You didn't know that?

Ron Richards (01:27:22):
No, I know. Yeah. But it, I, I noticed that with the photos I took the other night at, at, at the, at the show I saw when I saw band,

Speaker 5 (01:27:29):
I've seen that too. And I think it's like more like a like it's loading it, you know, or it's

Ron Richards (01:27:35):
To

Jason Howell (01:27:35):
A high and then clicks in. Okay. Now if it starts showing you photos before you've taken them, then I think you've got a problem. Oh, then we're in trouble. Yeah.

Ron Richards (01:27:44):
No. So, so I know, so I, I found one and I know I can't show you guys it on my phone, but what happens is that it's, it's a photo. That's got the, what is the feature where it takes a little bit of video.

Jason Howell (01:27:55):
Oh whatever they call or the live,

Ron Richards (01:27:58):
Live motion, whatever live

Jason Howell (01:28:00):
Animated gift.

Ron Richards (01:28:02):
So that happens. And I see the couple of seconds. Ha ha. I see a couple of seconds. And then, and then it, it almost picks the frame and then does something's like best shot

Jason Howell (01:28:12):
Or something. Motion, motion

Ron Richards (01:28:14):
Skills. Yeah. So yeah,

Jason Howell (01:28:16):
No,

Ron Richards (01:28:16):
No, not a lot of stuff that's happening on it. Like, so like, it really makes you question. What is the photo I just took?

Jason Howell (01:28:21):
Yeah. That's true. Okay. Yeah. I feel that. Yeah. So Interesting stuff. Well thank you for inspiring so much conversation on this topic, Jeremiah. I appreciate it.

Ron Richards (01:28:33):
And our next email, as Jason alluded to earlier, isn't an email. It was actually a tweet that was sent in response to last week's show. I feel like every week and Jason Huy, I'm sorry about this and Father Robert, this what you've been missing, the show has devolved into just Ron complaining about Google assistant and Google home all the time. That's

Jason Howell (01:28:52):
That's OK. Thread. That's always found,

Ron Richards (01:28:55):
But so I was complaining about Google home, constantly affirming everything I do on the damn dang Google home hub. When I say, Hey, Hey, GE turn off the lights in that room. It's like turning off the lights in this room and I'm like, just do it. And it's 11, 11 o'clock at night and the kids are sleeping. Like, shh, quiet. Just, just don't do it. Right. So I'm gonna be quiet now. Yeah. VI Vincent Poppo apologize as if I mispronounce your last name, Vincent. He tweeted at me, which is awesome. He said a tweet saying you can turn off the spoken responses to commands in Google homes that only plays a single tone as confirmation of completion, rather than repeating the command. As you spoke to it need to be done individually in the settings of each device.

Ron Richards (01:29:37):
Hope this helps love all an Android. And so if Vincent, this is fantastic feedback, I responded to me and like, thank you. This is what I needed. And then I proceeded to spend the past week trying to get this set. You didn't tell you how and, and I don't think it works anymore the way you, the way you outlined it. Oh. And now here's the thing that I've, I've gone deep into it. I've, you know, read it the, the, the product forums on Google, which as we all know are just, they like talk about a hive of scum and Villa. Oh my God. Those are just like brutal. But so first and foremost, there is no way to turn off the conversational aspect of the Google home. You can't say don't talk back to me or anything like that, period. What he's talking about about it only playing a single tone on as confirmation completion.

Ron Richards (01:30:23):
Isn't a setting you might have used to been. I was, I found some, some paper trail of it used to, of used to being but it's no longer a setting in Google home. Rather it's a setting of if you're in a device in the same room. So for example, if I'm in the bedroom and I say, Hey, gee, turn off the line. It just goes Bing and turns off the lights. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, so there is one way to leverage that I've read some of someone on Reddit shared, shared this little hack where you just make one room in your house and you put all the lights in that room, and then you just name the lights accordingly so that you can say, Hey, GE turn off the bedroom lights. And it goes bling, cuz it, Google home thinks they're all in one room, but you've created a cluster of lights within that room.

Ron Richards (01:31:12):
You know what I mean? The person, person in the virtual room grouping. Yeah. The person, the person on Reddi said, they've got 27 lights in their house. According to Google home, they're all in the same room. But based off his naming convention, he's able to group them and do that. So not everybody, not everybody could also do that. I did dig into though, cause I spent a while into the settings of both Google assistant and Google home and things like that. And I did find there's a life hacker article and there's a whole bunch of other stuff on this. You can use if F T T if F T T as we all know if Ft T lets you just do everything, can you, can, you could, if you had the time to, to do the programming, you could make I T T like, you know, do your taxes, but you can do if T T to change what those responses are.

Ron Richards (01:31:54):
So like actually a friend of mine has his go. He's a, I OT nut and a smart home nut has his whole house speced up. And he changed all the, the responses. So when he says, you know, Hey, G shields up, that means lock all the doors in the house. And then, oh, that's Google. The Google says II captain, you know, like, so like it's all a star Trek theme. Right. Which is pretty cool. So you C if you have the time and the implication, you, you can do all of that. But the other thing I found, which I thought was worth sharing, and this is what I, I was looking for was that if you go into the settings of the device, so I'm going into the, the Google home hub device via my Google home app and under the settings.

Ron Richards (01:32:34):
If I go into the, if I go into the settings of it and I choose notification and wellbeing there is a thing called night mode, and this is what I wanted on the device level. I can enable night mode so that it reduces the volume of responses during spec specified times. So what I've done is that from eight o'clock at night to six, am it reduces the volume of those responded. How, how low I Don produces. I don't know. Cause I just figured it out. Okay. I haven't tested. It's not like go in the kitchen and try it if you want me to, but at least so it's, it's, its I'm, as soon as we finish the show, I'm gonna try it. So I'll report back. But, but my hope is that it, it, this is the kids are sleeping, be quiet type thing.

Ron Richards (01:33:17):
There's also a do not a do not disturb obviously so that it will block reminders, broadcast message and other notifications and things like that. But also what's interesting is that you can adjust the maximum, this little slider here at the bottom is maximum volume at night. So I'm gonna lower that to like just a third and see there. Okay. Yeah. So you can, you can force the night mode, go to 10 minutes volume. I think this is my so, and honestly, if I wanted to, I could just make the V the max volume at night zero, and that it won't say anything and that will solve the problem. Yeah. So, so, so Vince, so Vincent, I appreciate the feedback. It's not as easy as just turning off spoken responses. It doesn't exist, but there's a bunch of different ways that you can highlight at this and attack it.

Ron Richards (01:34:02):
Now, I will say after spending a significant portion of time in these settings for Google assistant, oh my God, that is just like a, a labyrinth. It is, there is, are so many categories and subcategories and I get it because it's like this AI monster that you're working with and stuff like that, but it is, is very and like, and once you find something and then you tap away to it and check something else, good luck getting back to it. Yep. Like there's just nested menu after menu. It is just, it is just, it is a quagmire. So

Speaker 9 (01:34:33):
It's pretty intense. Yeah. I totally agree. I've got to

Ron Richards (01:34:36):
Go in there. So anyway, Vincent, you send me in the right direction. I ultimately found a solution, but there's a bunch of different ways to skip in this cat. And there's no just one button to turn off responses, which I find unfathomable, Google, like just ridiculous. Like that is just such a simple thing. Like, I don't wanna talk to the device, stop talking to me like that should be a setting. So,

Jason Howell (01:34:56):
But you do want to talk to the device. Like I, I gotta say, say, please, when the robot LORs watch this episode, I'm gonna be the first person they kill. Ron's gonna be the second person they kill. Cuz like he's trying to silence them right now. Yeah. And they shit, bro. And we know they definitely want to kill at least 75% of us. That's right. So even though I haven't been too disparaging, they're gonna kill me because they know it's, it's definitely the time he was on team robot.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:35:20):
Respect gotta everybody respect

Jason Howell (01:35:22):
Me too. Me too. I'm with the robot over Lord. No, I was gonna say, and then, and then we will, we will realize that Burke is leading the robots. That's right. He is the robot over is the robot over all these years. All right. Thank you for tweeting us. Vincent. Appreciate that. All right. When you have the honors,

Huyen Tue Dao (01:35:43):
Well, we have one more tweet to wrap it up. This is actually another response to last week's show from Thomas Hunsicker. I'm so sorry if I'm pronouncing your last name wrong. And basically last week we had Roy, our friend from Dublin asking us out, basically how can he, or that rather he try to do a custom live wallpaper and have material. You pick up the theme from the live wallpaper and he wasn't able to do it. And we really, we really didn't have any good answers for Roy, but Thomas Zeer replies with him. Well wait

Ron Richards (01:36:13):
Before you, before you tell us Thomas's response, you you're forgetting the most important thing.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:36:18):
Oh, but I'm so sorry, Thomas Hozier. Because, because you were so awesome and tweeted at us, you are now our

Jason Howell (01:36:27):
Email

Huyen Tue Dao (01:36:28):
Or tweet. Oh the week I thought

Jason Howell (01:36:29):
Forgot about that feels real. Now it feels real.

Ron Richards (01:36:33):
Yeah. You gotta get it in before you read it. So

Jason Howell (01:36:36):
Yeah. I, I got

Huyen Tue Dao (01:36:37):
Your back. I was like wondering like wish I was like, I was like actually thinking like, thank you. I just, I did it great last week. And then I just, I wasn't prepared.

Jason Howell (01:36:44):
Don't listen to them. You're doing a great job.

Ron Richards (01:36:47):
No, doing a great job. Excellent. Is no, is that a, so just I get you back

Huyen Tue Dao (01:36:50):
You so please. And thank you Burke, if you are our robotist pleaing. Thank you. Important. but yeah, so, so Thomas Thomas, the thank you so much for being our tweet slash email of the week. And Thomas basically reminded us that da da, that Muay is a live wallpaper app that actually does material. You themeing with custom pictures. There are also loads of plugins to pull in from other sources. I think we had some confusion, a little bit on Twitter, Jason, about maybe whether it was as Muay itself, like pull in material seeming versus so, so this is like kind of the confusion with material you is that material you is like, yes, the, that the system will pull color, a color palette from your background and apply it to everything that supports it, which by default is pretty much all of Android 12. And that individual apps, your mileage might vary depending on what the developer has kind of accessed that pallet. So I guess I was con I think there was confusion about what is it that Roy was asking and what is it that mu actually provides

Jason Howell (01:37:52):
To that? Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Like like my understanding was that, you know, Rory wanted a live wallpaper to point at a, a playlist of his photos of his choosing. I don't know if those reside on the device or if it's pulling from the cloud from Google photos or whatever, but point being, here's a, here's a bucket of photos that I've chosen. I want a live wallpaper that cycles through these every time my turn on my display, a new photo is displayed. And when that photo is displayed, colors are pulled out for Dyna, for dynamic theming. And yeah, I mean my confusion around music, cuz I don't know why I didn't think about mu initially when, when we were kind of doing that email. But when I looked at the update kind of on the, the posting on the play store, it had last been updated July, 2021, which I think was earlier than any developers really had access to any sort of controls over material use. So I just kind of assumed it wouldn't support this, but apparently it does. I haven't tested it though.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:38:52):
So mu itself, so this is the thing like, so for your, so for your non, so for your third party, non Google apps for that app app app itself, within the apps interface to support material, you, it has to be an update by a developer, but in terms of the Android system, being able to take a resource that is provided by a non Google source, like say OSA, for example, which it's kind of cheating because the, the people that write Muay are Googled to

Jason Howell (01:39:19):
Google you. Yeah, I know there is that it's not Google. Maybe that plays a part.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:39:22):
Yeah. So that, but actually that, that probably does. So basically Muay the, the apps that the live paper, the, the live wallpaper that it serves up can be parsed for material you palettes and applied to the system. And any other apps that are supporting material, you, they do have an issue on the Muay repo to themselves support material, youth theming within Muay itself. So that Muay the app itself and its interface supports the material youth theming, which is what I understand. But, you know, as I, as we just talked about, it probably makes sense that at least in terms of being able of material being able to pull out their colors from the, their white live wall paper. It makes sense because it was written by Roman Nurk and also Ian lake who are both members of the Android team. Roman Nurk has, was a design advocate and N UX manager for a long time and did a lot of stuff with Android.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:40:11):
And Ian lake is someone on the an engineer on the Android UI toolkit team. So unsurprisingly Mitchell, you work their wallpapers. And I also happened to come across a kind of on Reddit that someone mentioned that an app called K L w P, which I believe is custom with a K custom live wallpaper also seems to custom closes. Is that opposive is that, yeah, that is right. Yeah. Also supports seems to also support material youth seeming. And again, I, I, I'm gonna assume what they mean is that material youth college can be pulled out and applied to the system. So yes that's. Yes. Thank you so much, so much Thomas for reminding us of mu eight, because it's a really awesome app and we kind of just brain fared about it last

Jason Howell (01:40:57):
Week. Yeah, totally.

Ron Richards (01:41:00):
Yeah. I know emailed, I know when that, when that, when that tweet came in, I, I respond. I'm like Muay, why didn't we think of it? Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:41:06):
Where were we on that episode? Cause we certainly didn't think about that. Yeah. So, so true. And

Ron Richards (01:41:11):
It just shows that there's so much out, it's hard to remember everything. Yeah. So,

Jason Howell (01:41:16):
And Rory test it out, let us know, you know, hit us up with a, with a follow up and let us know if it does the trick and if it doesn't, what is it not doing for you? Very curious about that. So right on Thomas, thank you for being the tweet of the week. We'll just, we'll just transform a lot of really good use outta that.

Ron Richards (01:41:39):
Can we get another, oh, Father Robert, you have no idea. Can you get another, Hey, be, can you do another version of that? If it's a tweet versus an email, like it, can it be a different kind of fanfare type thing? There you go.

Jason Howell (01:41:51):
Yep. The bird. Sorry. If I blow lasted you in your headphones.

Speaker 5 (01:41:55):
Well, yes, there's we, we were certainly not locked in to one.

Jason Howell (01:42:01):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:42:01):
Wait, how about what that,

Jason Howell (01:42:06):
I don't think you're going for the right. Yeah. We that make the right thing. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Oh no, we'll move on before we get the eye roll from Ron. Hey, thank you so much for watching and listening. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you for sitting in with us today. I'm so happy to see you person, Father Robert ballon. Nice to be back. Yeah. Good to have you in, in studio two years. It's been more than two years since I was last in here. Yeah. Got happen. Yeah. Make it happen when you're in the area. So thanks for for, for asking you saying, Hey, I'm in the area. Can I come on cuz absolutely. Anytime you're in the area, let us know. Thank you. Yeah. what do you want people to know? Well, you know what, just follow me on, on Twitter, twitter.com/padre SJ.

Jason Howell (01:42:51):
I I'm posting my content there. I'm actually starting back up with some regular content posting including this Friday. I did a interview with a local co-founder of a spirits company, bespoken spirits. I, he taught me how to appreciate a good bourbon. Mm. So I'm just, I'm trying some weird kind of content that in kinda interview lots cats. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Just crazy, crazy cats, fat cats. I'll be heading back to Rome in about a week and should be back in California within the next 10 years or so. Okay. Well hit us up in 10 years. We'll be on Android 30 at that point and I'll probably still be using this phone. Yeah. Right. That, that would be a, a feat if, if you pull that off. Well, thank you. Awesome to see you. When, what do you wanna tell people about what you got going on?

Huyen Tue Dao (01:43:47):
Kind of the usual stuff. I'm still an Andrew developer and still talking about Andrew Android development. Generally speaking it, you can find my talks on the YouTube, just Google my name and they tend to pop up. I don't wanna or YouTube search my on YouTube and you'll find a lot of my talks, including some recent ones that I did on jet pack, composed animations, and keep an eye out for more stuff. And you can find me also on the Instagram, on the Instagrams, on the Instagrams. I'm so hip that's just how the kids said the Instagram on

Jason Howell (01:44:13):
The gram,

Huyen Tue Dao (01:44:14):
On the gram. There you go. Instagram's I better on the grams. You can find me on the grams and on the Twitter, man, this is not going well, Man. Not

Ron Richards (01:44:25):
Going well. Let me tell twin, let me tell you, you are the email of the week. That's

Jason Howell (01:44:31):
There you go.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:44:34):
But yeah, you could find me on Instagram and Twitter. Let's just not, let's just keep it like that. At queen Ko, monkey.com.

Jason Howell (01:44:40):
Okay. I just wanna say by the way, before we end this show, your hair looks awesome.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:44:45):
Aw, thank you.

Jason Howell (01:44:46):
It's that's a pretty rat color. It's and it matches your headphones.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:44:50):
I know. Look,

Jason Howell (01:44:51):
Oh, dang. That's pretty rad.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:44:54):
Remember what you said Ron, about people that like purple really like purple

Ron Richards (01:44:57):
People, like purple, really like purple.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:44:59):
I really like purple.

Jason Howell (01:45:00):
I'm guessing that you really like purple. Well, it looks good on you, Ron. What about you?

Ron Richards (01:45:06):
Yeah. Someone follow Robert. Just go, go on Twitter and on Instagram, follow me at Ron XO or go check on out, score it in the Google play store. Download it for your phone. Keep track your pinball scores. Lots of fun. If anybody's in the Texas area this weekend at Texas pinball Fest. I think outside of Dallas we'll have a booth there. I won't be there, but some of the guys will be there. We'll get a couple machines in the booth that you can play and check it out with and have some fun, play some pinball.

Jason Howell (01:45:31):
Nice. Right on have fun. That sounds like a blast.

Ron Richards (01:45:35):
I won't be there, but oh, other guys will. Oh,

Jason Howell (01:45:37):
Okay. Okay. I misinterpreted, well have fun. Not

Ron Richards (01:45:41):
Being there. I, I, I blew my travel allotment with the,

Jason Howell (01:45:45):
At home

Ron Richards (01:45:46):
By, by coming to the, by coming to this, to do the show with you. Yeah.

Jason Howell (01:45:50):
Understood. Understood. big thanks to, well Burke behind the scenes behind the board and you actually heard Burke a number of times on today's show. So thank you for doing everything that you do. Burke. Also big, thanks to Victor who edits the show after the fact it's all the media and makes it possible for you to actually subscribe and listen to it and podcast form. So couldn't do it without you as well. Victor. big, thanks to me. I am amazing. Don't you? Thank you. We do.

Ron Richards (01:46:20):
You were so awesome.

Jason Howell (01:46:21):
Yes. Awesome.

Ron Richards (01:46:22):
We, we never give

Jason Howell (01:46:23):
You thanks. Oh man. Why did I say that? Find me a Jason Howell on Twitter. Also doing tech news weekly with mic as Sergeant every Thursday at twit TV slash TNW. Don't forget club TWI, because if you like your shows without ads, that's how you do it. That's one of the ways, anyways, twi.tv/club TWI, all of our shows ad free also an exclusive TWI plus podcast feed. We've got some pre-show content from today that I'm planning on putting in that podcast feed. So look for it. And then a member's only discord, which is just so much fun to, to jump in there and talk with other fans of the TWI network and hosts and guests and all that seven bucks a month, twi.tv/club TWI, and other housekeeping TWI do TV slash a AA. That's the show page on the web. So go there. You can subscribe to this show. We do this every Tuesday evening. So it should appear in your podcast feed on Wednesday morning or late Tuesday, depending on where you are. But you know, subscribe, then you don't have to think about it. It makes it really, really easy. That's the beauty of RSS. Thanks so much for watching and listening and we'll see, see you next time on all about Android. Bye everybody.

Speaker 10 (01:47:37):
Whoa.

Speaker 10 (01:47:39):
Hey, I'm rod PI editor of ad as magazine and each week I'm joined by TARC. Mallek the editor inchi over@space.com in our new this week in space podcast, every Friday Tark and I take a deep dive into the stories that define the new space age what's NASA up to when will Americans, once again set foot on the moon. And how about those samples from the perseverance Rover? When are those coming home? What the heck is Theon must done now, in addition to all the latest and greatest and space exploration, we'll take an occasional look at bits of space flight history that you probably never heard of and all with an eye towards having a good time along the way. Check us out in your favorite podcast. Catcher.