Transcripts

TWiG 761 Transcript

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for Twig this Week in Google. I'm back, hello everybody. Paris Martin is also here, jeff Jarvis is here, the moral panic are here. We're going to talk about the passing of one of the great minds in economics. We'll also talk about Bill Maher's new podcast network AI when it's a good thing to do and when it's not, and a whole lot more. Yes, it's this Week in google, exploring the world of stretch pants. Next. This episode is brought to you by zscaler, the leader in cloud security. Cyber attackers are now using ai and creative ways to compromise users and breach organizations. In a security landscape where you must fight AI with AI, the best AI protection comes from having the best data. Z Scaler has extended its zero-trust architecture with powerful AI engines that are trained and tuned by 500 trillion daily signals. Learn more about Z Scaler Zero Trust Plus AI to prevent ransomware and AI attacks. Experience your world secured. Visit zscalercom. Slash zero trust AI Podcasts you love.

0:01:15 - Paris Martineau
From people you trust. This is Twig.

0:01:25 - Leo Laporte
This is Twig this Week in Google, episode 761, recorded Wednesday, march 27th 2024. Exploring the world of stretch pants this Week in Google is brought to you by Bidwarden. The password manager I use. Everybody I know uses. Everybody ought to use. It's a cost-effective solution that can dramatically increase your chances of staying safe online. Bill Wharton's open source that means they get better all the time.

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The open source password manager trusted by millions. The only one I use is the one I tell everybody I know to use. I'm telling you you should try it. Get started with Bitwarden's free trial of a Teams or Enterprise plan or, as I said, get started for free across all devices as an individual user. The place to go bitwardencom slash twit it's easy to move all your old passwords into Bitwarden. Turn on passkey support. You will love it. You never have to worry about where your passkeys live. They live in your secure bitwarden vault. Bitwardencom slash twit it's time for twig this week. In general, the show, we cover the latest stuff, whatever the hell we want to cover. Oh yeah, I'm back, I'm tanned and I'm ready to talk about nonsense with Paris Martineau from the Information. Thank you, paris, for filling in for me Awesome job.

0:03:54 - Paris Martineau
You're my general this week. Thank you, awesome job.

0:03:57 - Leo Laporte
Yep, you can relax, I'll take it from here.

0:04:01 - Paris Martineau
Great.

0:04:01 - Leo Laporte
Yep, the Informationcom. I have no thoughts in this head.

0:04:05 - Paris Martineau
That's probably not a great advertisement for the informationcom.

0:04:10 - Leo Laporte
All my thoughts are on the informationcom. Do you find yourself obsessing about the article that you're working on Like it's your whole life?

0:04:19 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, if it's a good one.

0:04:20 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, like all the time you think about it.

0:04:22 - Paris Martineau
Honestly, the problem comes if I'm working on something that I'm not obsessing about, because then I have to force myself in order to, uh, make it worth obsessing over yeah I, I will get obsessive about stuff and just not stop what you weren't obsessing over our lovely podcast this week.

0:04:43 - Leo Laporte
In general, your entire two weeks when I was in cabo san lucas in the beautiful mexico, I was obsessing on sun, surf and sand that's all I thought about, yeah jeff jarvis is here.

0:04:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Hello jeff, hello there. Paris did a superb job.

0:05:01 - Leo Laporte
She was a great host that's nice of you to say because, as you well know, it was in lieu of you hosting. That's okay. The young have taken over.

0:05:11 - Jeff Jarvis
The old guys have to step aside.

0:05:12 - Paris Martineau
Jeff did something like 75 podcasts that day. He couldn't have hosted another one.

0:05:18 - Leo Laporte
He works hard. Are you promoting? Oh, I got it. Hey, I was thrilled. I got a note from your publisher. They want me to review the Web. We Weave your new book, oh yay. They sent me the galley. I shall give you an early drink everybody.

0:05:31 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, thank you.

0:05:32 - Leo Laporte
I shall send you a log roll worthy. When is that coming out? That's October. Well, you know, pre-orders is funny. My son's cookbook comes out in October and he's obsessing about whether he's number one on Amazon, which he was for a long time, by the way. Wow, yeah, I think he's probably still number one in cookbooks, but, but it like you're pre-ordering for six months from now, which is I know it's ridiculous.

0:05:54 - Paris Martineau
Well, because you want all the pre-orders so that you boost the amount of first week sales, that you increase the likelihood of you ending up in the New York times bestseller list, right?

0:06:05 - Jeff Jarvis
And I'm not going to end up there and it's not going to end up there, but they obsess on that Versus Bloomsbury, my present publisher, the academic publisher. They want you to order directly from them and they give discount codes for it so that they make more money on every sale. Let me just quickly Real publishers don't want to do that.

0:06:21 - Leo Laporte
I remember when I wrote my first book. Real publishers don't want to do that. I remember when I wrote my first book I did spend a lot of time looking at the Amazon bestseller list. Yeah, he's dropped a little bit. Number three in burger and sandwich recipes, number 11 in comfort food cooking Number 18 in quick and easy cooking.

0:06:38 - Paris Martineau
What are number one and number two in burger and sandwich recipes? I don't know.

0:06:42 - Leo Laporte
There's nothing that could possibly compete with the best burger and sandwich book ever written. The Good Housekeeping Cookbook no Artisan.

0:06:51 - Benito Gonzalez
Sourdough Made Simple. No.

0:06:53 - Leo Laporte
It's clearly this should be number one. Salt Hank a five napkin situation, Clearly the best cover of them all, right.

0:07:02 - Jeff Jarvis
It is amazing. I don't see him as comfort food. That strikes me as odd, I think he's radical food.

0:07:09 - Leo Laporte
Oh look, he's number one new release in burger and sandwich recipes Wow.

0:07:14 - Paris Martineau
You can hang your hat in that.

0:07:16 - Leo Laporte
The real trick is to get onto the bestseller list on the New York Times, and that won't be until October. It sounds as if you'd written a book, paris. You knew the deets, you know how to.

0:07:27 - Paris Martineau
I just I love knowing behind the scenes gossip about industries that I have no business knowing.

0:07:34 - Leo Laporte
Well, you're a writer, you have every business knowing about this. I mean, that's true, yeah, how does it? But, jeff, how does the New York Times bestseller list Do they call bookstores like they did in the old days?

0:07:46 - Jeff Jarvis
No, the places just report and there's places that report, but now the whole distribution structure. Now you've got Ingram and all these others.

0:07:52 - Leo Laporte
It's very confusing.

0:07:54 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, and no one knows yeah.

0:07:56 - Paris Martineau
And you can get that little cross of shame on the New York Times bestseller list. If you look and you see somebody with like a little t insignia next to their title, that means that they think you maybe manipulated. Uh, book orders like you bought. That's hysterical you bought a bunch of. It means that you bought a bunch of books in bulk, or at least they think you did. So it's like a black mark, kind of, on your new york times bestseller I mean.

0:08:21 - Jeff Jarvis
the thing about it is that even the, the best-selling, best bestselling book most weeks is tiny when you get to.

0:08:29 - Leo Laporte
if you want to think about mass, it'd have to be, if you could influence it by going to a bookstore and buying a few boxes. It can't be. You know, ballistic right.

0:08:39 - Jeff Jarvis
So it's a vestige of our mass media presumptions about how the biggest has to be the most important. It's not.

0:08:46 - Leo Laporte
It's the same problem with oh, it's trending on twitter meaningless, because it still means a small number of people see whatever it was that was trending I have to say, though uh, henry's convinced and I think he's a publisher, this comes from his publisher that if he can get on the new york times bestseller list, that makes a.

0:09:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, it's a cookbook, it makes a huge deal right, huge self-fulfilling prophecy, then then you're the odds of getting on. Don't, don't have henry. I mean, I hope for him, I'll pray for him, I'll buy the book, but that's not to be all in end, all no yeah, the reason, I know that detail.

0:09:18 - Paris Martineau
But the new york times bestseller list is uh, my friends who try to moneyball, I guess work in publishing. I was gonna say trying moneyball publishing but I guess, that's their job. They've always described it as. The perfect recipe to success is your debut book. If you can get it on the New York Times bestseller list, especially with a nonfiction or fiction title, then also get some sort of optioning deal passed there. Then you'll be able to maximize your earning potential for future advances.

0:09:48 - Leo Laporte
But since you mentioned Moneyball, I should probably mention the passing of Daniel Kahneman, who was a psychologist but won a Nobel Prize in economics for his book Thinking Fast and Slow and his research on the psychology of economics. He passed away just yesterday. An enjoyable book, yeah, enjoyable. Uh, you know, my friend cory doctorow calls uh these kinds of books malcolm gladwell's books as well. Uh, yuri haral. No, no, you know, uh, harari harari's books. Uh, just so, stories because I agree.

0:10:26 - Jeff Jarvis
But I think wasn't Kahneman kind of early on that trend? He was the first Freakonomics followed. What do you mean by Just so Stories? Or he ruined things?

0:10:35 - Leo Laporte
Just so. Stories are stories that are too good to be true and everybody goes oh, that's amazing. What a great insight. For instance, one of the things Kahneman did not invent but talked about was that you have two thinking processes running in your brain at all times. I think it's logic and intuition, but I think he called it system one and system two. But you can think of it as logic and intuition Trademark. He didn't invent it, but he certainly popularized it and that's what a lot of this book was about. But, um, in the the years since that book came out and it's a great listen or read I listened to it, but it's a great read but in the years since it's come out, uh, there's been some effort to try to replicate the studies that he quotes and they are not that replicable, which is, you know, maybe a flaw of psychology in general. A lot of the results, you know, even the Stanford, the famous Stanford prison study, apparently.

0:11:33 - Paris Martineau
I mean, everything about it is bunk. They've just put a bunch of kids in a basement. They were like some of you are cops, some of you are prisoners.

0:11:41 - Leo Laporte
Go nuts yeah.

0:11:43 - Paris Martineau
So I don't want to. I guess the subject of the just so books, though. There's this fantastic podcast that kind of explores this phenomenon uh more in depth. It's called if books could kill. It's hosted by michael hobbs and peter shum siri and it uh specifically kind of I think their logline is like it's a show targeting airport books that they describe as the super spreader events of American stupidity. So it kind of breaks down what about these books makes them so popular and what doesn't exactly hold up to snuff. So I think the first episode they did was on Freakonomics. Yeah perfect example.

And they have some really great early stuff which, by the way, freakonomics, yeah, perfect example. And they have some really great early stuff.

0:12:26 - Leo Laporte
Which, by the way, freakonomics, is a very, very successful podcast as well Of course, yeah. And it's yes. Do you think they'll do Kara's book soon? No, that was mean. I don't want to bring it up. No, didn't say it, oh no.

0:12:41 - Benito Gonzalez
Nothing to say here.

0:12:42 - Leo Laporte
Actually, the most recent episode of If Books Could Kill is about Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In.

0:12:47 - Jeff Jarvis
Yep, Lean In Well, the books that are killing it right now. That just drives me completely crazy, which I shouldn't bring it up because I don't want to promote. It is Jonathan Haidt. His phones are killing youth and they're killing the young people, and it's moral panic, moral panic.

0:13:03 - Leo Laporte
I have very mixed feelings about Haidight. I've interviewed him. I thought the Righteous Mind was a very interesting book Another one, by the way, in the Kahneman kind of mold of oh, very much so If you study how people are thinking, this is why the right and left are divided. It's a very interesting book and he's written many more kind of on the same hypothesis. I interviewed him. One of his graduate students actually made an introduction for me, which was great, but of late he's kind of gone off the deep end a little bit.

0:13:35 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, he's completely off the deep end and he quotes, and the Atlantic ran an excerpt and I've got it somewhere on my Twitter where in one paragraph he talks about suicide rates since 2000 or 2010. Aha, see the phone. Well, the thing is, suicide rates, at least among boys, were much higher in 1990 and were equal among girls back in 1990, before Facebook, before the phone, before all of that. But he conveniently ignores all that. So I put up his quote. I said here's Jonathan Hayden, here's the facts, the quote from my upcoming book. And then he this is what he does. He comes in oh, what do you mean, jeff? I also mentioned this and that and I see all kinds of things. Siva Narayanathan, who's our mutual friend, cannot abide. Him Calls Ha height his his nemesis because he acts like a scholar, acts like a university person, but isn't one, and see if his view.

0:14:31 - Leo Laporte
So this is probably. Uh, anyway, kahneman's book's worth reading. He did win the nobel prize. Uh, passed away, thinking fast and slow. I recommend it, but take with a grain of salt a number of the chapters, because a lot of those studies that he quotes were never as successfully replicated, which means maybe, maybe, the conclusions are a little bit off. Uh, but we seem to be filled now and I it's all podcasting's fault. I notice everybody every time somebody comes on msnbNBC on his podcast. Everybody's got a freaking podcast. Now I saw who was the member of Congress who was thrown out. Democratic member of Congress, former comedian on Saturday Night Live, al Franken. Al Franken, he was on the other day on MSNbc and it's of course. He's got a podcast and that's what everybody has. So, uh, I I think there's an interesting cautionary tale, because a lot of the people, uh, who we look up to turn out to be somewhat fraudulent. Did you see the intelligence's article about hooberman?

0:15:47 - Paris Martineau
no, I did see it. I haven't fully finished reading it, but it seemed like a whopper of an article.

0:15:54 - Leo Laporte
It's quite a story. Uh, andrew hooberman hosts uh hooberman labs podcast. Um, the intelligencer, which is a new york magazine, york magazine online kind of investigative feature, kind of blew the lid off of it, including the fact that the lab has long been closed. There's one postdoc working there on their own volition that Hooverman really isn't. He lives six hours away. He isn't really the scientist he claims to be be. I don't think it diminishes the value of his podcast. A lot of people get a lot of value out of his podcast. In fact, the woman who wrote the article said I stopped drinking because of, uh, the hoberman's hoberman lab podcast about alcohol. Um, but, uh, you know, feet of clay, it's only a matter of time before they write this article about me. I keep hoping, I keep praying, because it's gotta be.

0:16:48 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I guess for context he's a. I hadn't heard of him before this article, so I did a little bit of research. He's like a famous neurologist who has become a huge podcast star because of this podcast, the. Uberman. Lab that seems to advocate for. I guess it's quite popular among people who are in recovery.

0:17:13 - Leo Laporte
A lot of the stuff in there is good. Yeah.

It talks about a lot of normal lifestyle, relationship stuff, ways of breathing. He talks about alcohol and why it's there's no safe amount of alcohol. He talks about how you got to get 10 minutes of sun on your head every day. A lot of this stuff is valuable and I would not dismiss it just because he perhaps isn't all he says he'd be. But the point I'm making, which got started with Kahneman and now is that there are a lot of people out there who position themselves as leaders and thought leaders and stuff, who really aren't. They just want to be. I mean they are, but they get maybe too much power. I think sometimes Bill Maher is starting a podcast network.

0:17:55 - Jeff Jarvis
Of course he is Bill.

0:17:57 - Paris Martineau
Bill. I'm surprised you didn't have one already.

0:18:00 - Leo Laporte
It's a bad idea, Bill. Trust me, Don't do it, Bill. Don't do it, Bill. Step away from the microphone. Yeah, you know, it's a.

0:18:13 - Jeff Jarvis
Usually he says I'm looking for people who don't, before they speak, say what's the right answer here?

0:18:20 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that's right.

0:18:21 - Jeff Jarvis
He's right, but he's actually right because that's right.

0:18:29 - Leo Laporte
He's right, that's, but he's actually right because, um, I mean, what's the what is? Do you so? For me it's what's. The right answer here is, like the whole point of all of our shows is let's get to the truth of it, and so forth. It's not as compelling as I've got the right answer. Let me tell you what it is.

0:18:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Uh and, but generally, people who know he wants, he wants to be. You can't cancel us.

0:18:46 - Leo Laporte
It's kind of the Barry Weiss school of it's called Club Random Studios. Kevin Garnett's podcast is going there. Kg certified Fred Durst. Oh, you kind of already know what's going on here. Billy Corbin yeah, you know what this is, yeah.

0:19:04 - Jeff Jarvis
HBO finally gets tired of them and gets rid of them.

0:19:06 - Leo Laporte
I think that's really what happens is that when people can't make it any longer in mainstream like you know, perhaps some guy who was on cable TV doing a technology show back in the 90s and he can't nobody will hire him for a TV show. What does he do? You know, he fires up a podcast network because it's cheap. You didn't want to be hired by a TV show. No, actually Did you. I make more money, or I did anyway, not so much now, but for many years made more money in podcasting than I ever did in mainstream. But that wasn't about the money. I think I wanted the control. I didn't really like being told you know you could do a three-minute segment on this. It's told you know you could do a three minute segment on this, and it's just. You know I like.

0:19:50 - Paris Martineau
Instead we do three hours you don't want one of those little timers. They got an NPR or you got to schedule all your hits.

0:19:56 - Leo Laporte
I'm lazy. You got to have a three and a half hour show.

I want my day to start at 11 am, to end at 4 pm. I wanted to come in and just talk and then leave. I'm lazy. You're not lazy. You do tugs of shows. You do a lot of work, not anymore. Hey, here's a big story. Let's change the subject real quick. Okay, vinyl records outsell CDs for the second year running. Last year's vinyl revenue in the US, according to the Verge, more than doubled the amount spent on CDs. Now, of course, cds are dying.

0:20:32 - Paris Martineau
I was going to say. The most shocking thing about this is who is still buying CDs.

0:20:39 - Leo Laporte
But 43 million vinyl records were sold last year. That's a really large number. I mean, admittedly, many, many more people listen to streaming but that's howard.

0:20:51 - Jeff Jarvis
Stern just ridicules baba buoy, gary del latte for liking vinyl. I like vinyl both and uh, howard thinks it's the most ridiculous thing on earth. But gary has, you know, a whole room and a special stereo and it's. It's like going back to the 70s you can uh make a case I love vinyl yeah, it's great, do you know?

0:21:14 - Paris Martineau
I do have a vinyl yeah I have vinyl, I've got a record player. Um, I yeah, I mean, I like it because it's a way to support artists, it's a way to own physical media. I enjoy displaying the art on the records and I enjoy it's a good way. Instead of just queuing up an album on Spotify, I can queue it up on my record player.

0:21:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Did your parents have a big stereo?

0:21:42 - Paris Martineau
They had, yeah, a big CD player and tape cassette, stereo, but never any vinyl.

0:21:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, wow See, I'm so old, leo, I'll bet you did too. My parents had. The stereo was a piece of furniture, yeah, the size of a dining room buffet. Well, my grandmother had it, but yeah.

0:21:59 - Benito Gonzalez
I bet you that thing sounded really good though.

0:22:01 - Leo Laporte
No, it sounded tubby as hell. Yeah.

There is more than just the medium that makes the difference. There have been a number of articles I've seen lately that say the studios, when they're mixing I think this is really true and, benito, you can weigh in on this because you're a musician and you probably know a lot about it when they're making pop records intended for airplay, streaming and putting on CDs, they compress them very, very highly because they have more punch. Compression means that the difference between the quietest sounds and the loudest sounds is reduced, so everything kind of is, and I've seen actually comparisons between the vinyl versions of recent songs and the CD versions. And because they know that it's people like Paris it's twee boho collectors in Brooklyn who are buying vinyl that care about audio more, perhaps they don't compress it as much. It's not going to go to streaming or airplay and so you might actually get a better sounding record, not because the is better okay, a couple of things there yes so for one um, the medium is a little bit better in that it's analog.

0:23:13 - Benito Gonzalez
It preserves more dynamic range yeah right, so so quiet parts can be quieter and loud parts can be louder, without distorting, without distorting your system, right, um. But when it comes to um, like mastering, which is what you're talking about, the process of creating the final audio tracks, right, that go on the record, um, all the tools today that actually produce music, it's all digital. So, actually, like, digital mediums are kind of the best for modern music, anything made after like 1996, because it's recorded digitally, it's all recorded digitally. So, like you, so like digital mediums are probably better for sound quality. Yeah, but back before that, all of the records were mastered for vinyl, right? So that's why records for like 80s records, 70s records, 60s records, those definitely sound better because they were mastered for that medium.

0:24:03 - Jeff Jarvis
How much vinyl do you have Benito because?

0:24:04 - Benito Gonzalez
they were mastered for that medium.

0:24:07 - Leo Laporte
How much vinyl do you have? Benito, About 300. Good for you. And do you have a turntable that is in a sandbox, isolated from vibrations?

0:24:14 - Benito Gonzalez
Not quite. And earthquakes.

0:24:18 - Speaker 3
You want to give me a raise and I'll get one of those.

0:24:22 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's all up to the members of Club Twit right now. If you want Benito to have a better sound system, go to twittv slash club twit. Sign up for $7 a month, do it. This poor child could have a better sound system.

0:24:37 - Paris Martineau
We'll be able to listen to his hundreds of vinyl records in perfect audio quality.

0:24:42 - Leo Laporte
Here's an article from creativeaudioworkscom which is actually kind of interesting. It debunks a little bit what I said, which is that there are different masters for vinyl and CD. He says, in fact, if you purchase an album, as Benito said, from the last two decades on vinyl, it's likely that the master will be no better than on CD. Alternative masters for vinyl cost money. Mastering is a significant cost to producing a record. However, there are older, as you said, benito, older records that sound very good on vinyl.

0:25:20 - Benito Gonzalez
Jazz sounds amazing on vinyl.

0:25:22 - Leo Laporte
You know, miles Davis' Kind of Blue will never sound better than it does on a record Absolutely. I don't know what it's warmer somehow, I don't know what it is. This is a great article actually. The other problem of course with vinyl is it clicks. You have to have one of those old 80s disc master washing sponges that you put solution on and you wash the grooves. There's a whole thing. Maybe that's what people like, is there's sponges that you put solution on and you wash the grooves. There's a whole thing. Maybe that's what people like is there's a process with vinyl and maybe that's also what psychologically makes them think this sounds better Putting more effort into it.

0:25:56 - Benito Gonzalez
And to answer Paris' question earlier about who's buying CDs now, people who are buying CDs now are old vinyl collectors who don't want to pay new vinyl prices. Ah, who are just like music collectors. Who are buying CDs now are old vinyl collectors who don't want to pay new vinyl prices. Ah, ah, who are just like music collectors who don't want to pay because vinyl has gotten way more expensive.

0:26:11 - Leo Laporte
It's really expensive. Do you buy the 108 gram vinyl records?

0:26:16 - Benito Gonzalez
I mean, I'm not that kind of collector. I just pick up the records that I like. I'm not like a collector.

0:26:21 - Jeff Jarvis
What does an average album cost?

0:26:22 - Benito Gonzalez
these days A brand new about $30 to $40.

0:26:26 - Leo Laporte
Wow, and a CD is $16.99, unless you join the RCA Music Club when you can get $20 for a penny, little tip, little life hack for you.

0:26:36 - Benito Gonzalez
And destroy your credit on the way.

0:26:37 - Leo Laporte
And destroy your credit forever. Anyway, somebody's buying them 43 million vinyl records according to the Recording Industry Association of America, Six million more than the number of CDs sold in 2023. And that's the second time that's happened since 1987.

0:26:56 - Paris Martineau
I just joined that club added a little bit more to the vinyl side. I did a pre-order of Baldur Gate 3's soundtrack on vinyl recently, Wow.

0:27:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, that's so you, that is so you.

0:27:10 - Paris Martineau
I'm still pissed because Pentament the game I think I've talked about once before that Jeff tried to download on his computer where you play a 15th or 16th century Bavarian illustrator around the Gutenberg 15th. Thank you, I was like I can't get it wrong, but I did Around the Gutenberg press launch, or I guess launch is the wrong word for it.

0:27:38 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, you called it a launch Around, the launch of the.

0:27:39 - Benito Gonzalez
Gutenberg press, but they have an incredible soundtrack.

0:27:45 - Paris Martineau
Everything is like. It's all authentic to the era, everything in the game, as well as the soundtrack, and I wanted to get it on vinyl but it sold out in like one hour. Wow, no, the entire game is uh like. Woodblock carving is how uh. It is a good game designed. It is a fantastic game.

0:28:06 - Benito Gonzalez
It's like a murder mystery. It's on Xbox.

0:28:08 - Paris Martineau
You should. It is basically you are this Bavarian illustrator, in kind of a small Bavarian town, trying to complete your masterwork. A murder happens and you get kind of caught up in it and you have to make a series of choices that influence the fate of the game oh, sounds like it echoes sex with a rose.

0:28:29 - Leo Laporte
Have you read name of the rose? No, I have not. Oh my god for put that game down and go read the name of the rose, one of the great murder mysteries. Uh, from, and it comes from. It's a friar, as the is the detective. It's comes from that era. It's a friar is the detective. It comes from that era. It's wonderful. Now, did Pentiment record new music for this, or did they take old music?

0:28:50 - Paris Martineau
I believe they recorded new music. It may have been some of it based on old music. At the end of the credits they have a whole bibliography and historical reference section of things they did to make sure that every aspect of the game and setting was as historically Now you're making me all sad and angry again that I can't play it. I will figure out how you can get it on your computer On a. Chromebook Get him an.

Xbox. You just get him an Xbox. It is a really easy. It's just like a text-based adventure. There's nothing super complicated about it and a big part of the mystery like whenever you learn something like every person's dialogue is written in different font depending on their characterization, what knowledge they have. Once you like, you could perhaps have somebody who thought the whole game was like a peasant written, their dialogues written in like pigeon scratch, and then you realize actually they're literate and have been reading the whole time and then suddenly their dialogue changes to like printing press font. Oh wow, you'd really like it.

0:29:55 - Leo Laporte
Oh, so you were trying to get this limited edition that ran out.

0:29:58 - Paris Martineau
Uh, I was trying to get the. No, I was trying to get the vinyl. They were selling all of of the. I mean they had a beautiful, I believe like golden pressed vinyl for Pentiment's soundtrack and it's a fantastic soundtrack my friend texted me when it came out and I was like, oh, I'm at a bar with some coworkers, I'll do it on the train home In 45 minutes. It was sold out you feel you.

0:30:25 - Jeff Jarvis
So it's for sale on eBay for $97.58. I know, but do I?

0:30:29 - Paris Martineau
want to spend $100 on it, yeah.

0:30:33 - Leo Laporte
You know, honestly, I love ancient music. My wife calls it church music and she always knows when I've been at home alone because there'll be Korean chants wafting from the bedroom. But there's a lot of great ancient music out there. Probably you could even find it on your Spotify. Look for a guy named Josquin de Prey. Do you know who Josquin de Prey is? He is widely considered the first classical composer from 1450s thereabouts, which is Gutenberg time. Gutenberg time Wonderful music and very, very weird some of it. But I think you would really like it. I'm sure that that was one of the influences for pentiment.

0:31:16 - Paris Martineau
yeah, yeah, and you can find music for the game was composed and performed by alchemy early music ensemble. Game director josh sar said they're a music group. They compose and record as an ensemble the music they've contributed.

0:31:30 - Leo Laporte
The game is either strictly historical or historically inspired yeah yeah, I like I like um those guys because they they use old, they use instruments like the sackbutt and it gives it a certain. Let me see if I can play some Josquin. Just look for Josquin.

0:31:52 - Paris Martineau
Oh yes, Name of the Rose is a direct, a primary inspiration for the physical setting. It sounds like.

0:31:59 - Leo Laporte
Name of the Rose. Yeah, I think you would like some Josquin to pray All right Josquin to pray as. Alright Josquand to Pray. As you know, I have excellent musical taste, as everyone who listens to this show knows from our incredible opening theme. Which has a medieval it is. I didn't want to pay for an actual medieval composer. They're very expensive, it turns out. So I pay for an actual medieval composer. They're very expensive, it turns out. So I got a phony medieval composer to do our theme.

0:32:32 - Paris Martineau
Speaking of which, I think we're going to need to pay some homage to a Mr Newmark here. We can't have a whole show go by without him. Wait a minute.

0:32:41 - Leo Laporte
Where is Jeff from? Again? You're right, this is all part of the introduction of Jeff Jarvis.

0:32:45 - Paris Martineau
We still have not finished introing the show.

0:32:50 - Leo Laporte
Jeff, are you still the Leonard Tow Professor for Journalistic Innovation? Yes, I am, I'm going to leave. Are you at the Craig Newmark Craig Newmark Graduate? School of Journalism at the City University of New York. As little as possible, emeritus All possible Emeritus, all right Emeritus. When does the new gig begin? And I think I don't know. We're still in talks For new gig. You should say his new podcast on the Bill Maher podcast network. You do have a new podcast. You do an AI podcast.

0:33:22 - Jeff Jarvis
I do have AI inside, dear friend Jason Allen, and today we had on Sal Khan, oh which is pretty amazing, salman Khan of the Khan Academy. Yes, yes, we had a celebrity on. Isn't that amazing Jason's got. He has a book coming out about AI and education, and so I know that mode. I got a book coming out. I'll do any podcast there is, and he did our little podcast. It was a wonderful half hour conversation today, wow.

0:33:50 - Leo Laporte
AIinsideshow. It's not out yet, but it will be soon. It will be soon.

0:33:55 - Jeff Jarvis
While we're on Literary Corner, I'm listening to a book right now that I think you would love James James.

0:34:03 - Leo Laporte
And the giant James Cage.

0:34:05 - Jeff Jarvis
It is. No, I love his work. It is the version of Huck Finn written from Jim's perspective.

0:34:12 - Leo Laporte
There have actually been a number, I think, of these. I noticed James is the newest. Yeah, it's really good. I do really want to read it.

0:34:30 - Jeff Jarvis
It's really is highly literate Right, and so he speaks in his voice narrating the book. He speaks in his literate voice, but he has to be very careful that he has to play a black person for the white Right.

0:34:47 - Leo Laporte
Is that the one that's subtitled and his white friend, or something like that? There are a couple of these. I think I saw one the other day this is.

0:34:58 - Jeff Jarvis
This is the. This is Percival Everett. Oh yeah, personal Everett is the guy these days. Tons and tons of books. Yeah, yeah, percival Everett is the guy these days who's had tons and tons of books. Yeah, he's just really quite wonderful. By the way, the other one I want you to read is City on Mars. We talked about that a few shows ago.

0:35:14 - Leo Laporte
Yes, I hear that's very good. Yeah, you need to get that one Right. I'm rereading my childhood favorites right now, really yes. Um, favorites right now, really yes, believe it or not. Uh, the the carlos castaneda. No, although that's a great book, let me put that on my audible list no. Did you read when you were a teenager any of the carlos castaneda no teachings of don juan books? Uh, yeah, they were very popular with among uh with a certain group of uh hallucinogenic using I was.

I was born the herman hesa I've read that too glass bead game and all of that. Oh yeah, siddhartha, siddhartha, yeah yeah oh, yeah, yeah all right.

0:35:55 - Jeff Jarvis
Moving on from literary, shirts.

0:35:57 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yes, uh. Let's talk about ai. What do you think? But before we do that, let's pause. You're watching this week in general. Slash google with paris martineau, jeff jarvis and me. I'm just some tan guy who tan guy filling in for paris, all right.

0:36:20 - Jeff Jarvis
The george hamilton of podcasting Not that dark Good article.

0:36:27 - Leo Laporte
I thought you might have something to say about it. Zach Seward gave this talk at South by. He has just started a new job at the New York Times. He's responsible for editorial director for AI initiatives at the New York Times, which you know. Does that include the lawsuit?

Yeah, initially you might go really they want to have actually a person in charge of that, but he says he's building a newsroom team charged with prototyping potential uses of machine learning for the benefit of our journalists and readers. Often machine learning AI LLMs are used for the benefit of our journalists and readers. Often, machine learning AI LLMs are used for the benefit of the corporation which owns the publication, so they don't have to pay writers. I hope that he's not doing that. He was at courts for some time and actually I thought, wrote a good article. I'm sure you've read it right, jeff. Yeah, oh yeah, because this is what you were kind of teaching, I believe.

0:37:22 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, and and Zach is is brilliant. Zach was was at the end. He was in charge of courts. He had to sell it to go media, unfortunately, um, uh, he was wall street journal. He's a brilliant journalist and a wonderful guy. He mocks the initial agent.

0:37:37 - Leo Laporte
Oh well, then you really do know him. He mocks the um the c-net ai uses, uh yeah, uh, geo which did gizmo, uh, gizmodo rather the CNET AI uses. Geo Media. Yeah, geo, which did Gizmo Gizmodo, rather, that's who he sold Quartz to, by the way, so he's kind of biting the hand that fed him. Very famously, sports Illustrated lost their CEO when they had Drew, sarah, domino and Denise write sports articles for Sports Illustrated except those, are make up our diversity they're made up.

Oh yeah, might as well have one black guy, one Asian woman, one white woman and one white guy. He's the diversity play. Uh, geez Louise, these were all fakes. Uh. So he says AI journalism goes awry when it's unchecked, lazy, selfish, dishonest and opaque. But and this is where I thought I really want to know what jeff's take is on this he says ai journalism works when it's vetted, rigorous, reader first, truthful and transparent. What do you need ai for if you're doing all that?

0:38:41 - Jeff Jarvis
well, there's a lot you can do. The five of the cry. I had this in the rundown last week. We didn't get to it.

Five of the current Pulitzer Prize nominees were done in collaboration with AI, because it helps with analyzing large data sets, with scraping large data sets, with summarizing data. It's not about making content, it's not about generating, but it is about being able to understand things you couldn't otherwise understand. So I think that's good. Oh, we also have the wall street. No, the FT is going to do what I've mentioned, that the shipstead in Norway is doing. They're going to put, they're going to create an LLM of all their FT content. So you basically create a new window onto their content. That's a smart use. Window onto their content. That's a smart use. I've talked to one editor about getting a hundred citizens across the state to record the school board meetings and have the AI transcribe it and then create a queryable database of what's going on in these school boards. How many of them are banning books? There's a lot of things that I think newsrooms can do with ai if they have an open mind, um, and if they're not stupid matt in our discord.

0:39:50 - Leo Laporte
Who is mavs guy 842 obviously a dallas mavericks fan says well, human beings in the whole have pretty well lost the plot on actual journalism.

There is that, well, there is that yeah, uh, here's an example, though, from his talk. When he was at courts, they received a huge dump of data for the so-called Mauritius leaks. Mauritius is a tax haven, and these were kind of like the Panama Papers a bunch of documents about people dodging taxes in Mauritius, about people dodging taxes in Mauritius. He said there's no way we could have done this without the use of computers and transformer models, combing through them in 200,000 pages no, I'm sorry, 200,000 documents, some of them many pages, and so he said that worked quite well. It was kind of an early use of this, uh, to analyze that data, and I guess that kind of does make sense.

0:40:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Um, I went to a, to a world economic forum event yesterday virtually, and somebody there some smart person about ai said you know, it used to be that we use computers to qa us and now it's reversed. We qa the ai. If you do it right, you have to do something fancy, but you gotta check it, you gotta make sure it's right. Mostly we QA the AI. If you do it right, you have to do something fancy, but you got to check it, you got to make sure it's right.

0:41:07 - Leo Laporte
Mostly the things that Seward talks about here are analyzing data the New York Times using it to analyze satellite imagery from Gaza of bomb craters, for instance, or the Wall Street Journal using it to find hidden lead cables.

0:41:23 - Jeff Jarvis
I had no idea that that existed A and B. How they used the photos to find out what a lead cable was, he used Google Street View to check images around schools in New Jersey.

0:41:38 - Leo Laporte
I don't know if that's a use of AI. Maybe they used AI to analyze the pictures. Buzzfeed used AI to analyze the pictures. Yeah, uh, buzzfeed uh used ai to find patterns. Uh, in hit in airplane trajectories, it turns out. This is very interesting actually, if you look at flight aware or anywhere where they will tell you that you know commercial airline traffic, most planes go from point a to point b. You know I'm I'm going from Dallas to San Francisco, but there are planes that seem to be flying in circles and those planes are probably there spying on whatever's beneath them. So they used an AI to analyze traffic patterns, find the circles, because they're not perfect loops, you know're a little, they're a little wobbly, and they probably couldn't have done it without a, without a computer so these spies, by the way, do we know?

let's see. I'll have to read buzzfeed news. Are they still around?

0:42:39 - Paris Martineau
no, no famously shuttered last year yeah, this came.

0:42:44 - Leo Laporte
This was seven years ago actually us marshals.

0:42:47 - Jeff Jarvis
Us marshals hunted drug cartel kingpins in mexico. A military contractor tracking terrorists in africa.

0:42:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they used flight radars, uh data, to do this. That's kind of interesting, but that's usually. I don't think of that, as ai as much as using computers to analyze large data sets. When you say AI, usually I'm thinking writing right.

0:43:13 - Paris Martineau
Well, that's generative AI. Ai is just artificial intelligence. What. I know it's crazy what.

0:43:29 - Jeff Jarvis
I had no idea she has a cold, go easy google uses ai.

0:43:36 - Leo Laporte
Hey, here's a google story. We might have to change your name again how we're using ai for reliable flood forecasting. They actually are able to predict riverine flooding up to seven days in advance, and that is using AI. Floods are the most common type of natural disaster. They write in the keyword blog Nearly 1.5 billion people directly exposed to substantial risks from severe flood events worldwide. They publisheda paper in nature that shows how ai can help scale flood forecasting. Uh and I guess, as climate change proceeds, uh, this might become more and more important up to seven days in advance and it's not something that google has any business doing.

0:44:24 - Jeff Jarvis
They're doing it, you know, because they, because they can and they should.

0:44:28 - Leo Laporte
It's good yeah, so yeah, I mean I I think the conversation about is ai a parlor trick is over right well he talked about.

0:44:40 - Paris Martineau
Well, we'll ask you, leo are you? What does ed say he?

0:44:47 - Leo Laporte
ed believes it's a parlor trick, right?

0:44:49 - Paris Martineau
we gotta get both of you guys on a, on a podcast. Now that I'm accelerationist, yeah, yeah, because I went from parlor to accelerationist and I I thought we talked about that.

0:44:59 - Leo Laporte
I love ai. I, I. I think it's my new friend.

0:45:03 - Jeff Jarvis
To Paris's point is that the AI purists will say generative AI is just one kind of AI.

0:45:13 - Benito Gonzalez
It's all AI.

0:45:14 - Jeff Jarvis
It's not a leap, it's not that big a deal. It goes from analytical to generative, and then next is agentic. What? Who Agents? Excuse you. Bless you, yes. Hmm, then next is agentic. What, um, who agents? Excuse you? Bless you, yes. Will you trust it to actually do a task for you, as, yeah, that's a big leap it's a big leap we had a couple of weeks ago on twitter.

0:45:36 - Leo Laporte
We had samable samadon, who's our car guy. He's a industry analyst. He's been writing about and talking about cars, oh, and he has a podcast for many years. Who doesn't? He said something kind of shocking on that tweet. He said we will never reach level five self-driving. Not, it's a long way off. He says we're not going to reach it. No, I agree, and for a long time we've acted as if, well, that's just a matter of progress. You know, you slowly get better and better. Pretty soon, level five AI just for those who don't know is that a car should be able to drive from point A to point B anywhere under any conditions, with no human intervention. Just, you know, take me to the river and it'll go. He says it's not, it's too hard. So what we're going to, what we're certainly seeing now and what we're gonna could probably see forever, is a human assisted driving. Uh, and for most of us driving our own cars, that's actually a really great benefit because it keeps us a little bit.

0:46:34 - Jeff Jarvis
No, it means that somebody's not paying attention and they're not going to be there in time and I use, uh, adas, it's called assisted driving assistance, assisted driving, automated driving assistance stuff surface off.

0:46:46 - Leo Laporte
So you know ADAS is called Assisted Driving Assistance, assisted Driving, automated Driving Assistance stuff Surface software, and it's like very helpful for like stop and go traffic. I pay attention. In fact, most cars now my car certainly have cameras that watch your eyes. If I look out the window too long, it goes beep, beep, pay attention. It actually flashes and buzzes and vibrates. Cadillac has this, gm's Blue Cruise has this. It practically does. The first time I experienced it on Blue Cruise the seat was vibrating. I felt like my God, what's going on? But that's good, it makes sure that you're paying attention but at the same time it helps you. But that's good, it makes sure that you're paying attention but at the same time it helps you.

The car I drive was just rated the safest car in the world by the South Korean authorities because of things like stopping auto stop if you're about to run into something, or lane change warnings and lane assistant that keep you in the lane and adaptive cruise control things like that. They are useful. Oh, you're right, if you're silly and you, you in the lane, and and and uh, adaptive cruise control things like that, they are useful. Oh, you're right. If you're silly and you get in the back seat, that's a bad idea.

0:47:52 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, and go ahead Paris.

0:47:54 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I was just saying I think it's great. Obviously, I don't drive every day like you two, but whenever. I do no, I don't have a car. Sometimes I will rent a car. She's from Brooklyn. She's cool, Leo. Where would I put a car, Leo?

0:48:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Exactly, do you think?

0:48:09 - Paris Martineau
I'm renting parking space.

0:48:12 - Leo Laporte
Cost more than an apartment.

0:48:14 - Paris Martineau
I was going to say I've got my bike tied up somewhere outside and even that is a lot for me to deal with. But whenever I do drive a car with ADAS or the program you guys are talking about, I do really like having those things on there. The thing that I'm always worried about is oh, what if I am not centered in the lane right? And it helps me with that. Advanced driver assistance systems by the way is what ADAS is.

0:48:37 - Leo Laporte
As long as we're going to use it. I should define it. I think they're good, but my point being it's that extra little, this much to get to level five that it's just super hard. The hard things are easy and the easy things are hard. The things we do easily the computers just can't do. And I think once you realize that the idea of an AGI and all that may be a little bit difficult to get to, but there's so much utility below that last 5%, yeah, that's true.

0:49:05 - Jeff Jarvis
It doesn't matter, but it's also it's being oversold. You saw that Musk in a story this week is insisting that every sales call must demonstrate his so-called full driving so he can try to sell it to you for $200 a month.

0:49:19 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, if you go to a Tesla dealership and you go for his test drive, they will do full self-driving see it works.

0:49:28 - Jeff Jarvis
It's not. It's a lie. It's a lie full self-driving it's dangerous.

0:49:31 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's a lie is such a strong word, but, uh, I think it's overselling the capability, for sure, for sure. Uh, let's see what else is going on. Well, let's keep doing our ai thing. A great story in wired. I'm sure most both of you read it in most of our audience eight google employees who invented modern ai. They wrote a paper, the so-called transformers paper that everybody read and then, and then it just took off. It was the foundational research. Uh, in 2017, the paper was called. Attention is all you need.

Google researchers most of them have left um, basically setting a. It's a seventh anniversary, by the way, it's a. According to a lot has happened in those seven years. Yeah, it has achieved legendary status. The authors started with a thriving and improving technology. We've talked about a lot. The ai called neural networks right and made it into something else a digital system so powerful again reading from wired that its output can feel like the product of an alien intelligence. I told you this is Stephen Levy writing, so he's very good at that kind of Hyperbole. Is that a good word for that? It is kind of like an alien intelligence Called Transformers. This architecture is the not-so-secret sauce behind all those mind-blowing AI products, including ChatGPT.

Dolly MidJourney, the author of the paper, now jokes. If he knew how famous the paper would become, he might have been worried more about the author order. He was listed first. Noam Shazier, even though he said I don't think I had that much to do with it. He says Shazier, even though he said I don't think I had that much to do with it. He says all of the Shazier says all of the eight signers are now micro celebrities. I have people asking me for selfies because I'm on a paper. Says Leon Jones. The names are picked in order as random. Jeffrey Hinton, who we've talked about, was also. He's not one of the authors, but he says without Transformers I don't think we'd be here now. So it was also. He's not one of the authors but uh, he says without transformers I don't think we'd be here now. So it was kind of ground earth shattering and they're not.

0:51:50 - Jeff Jarvis
They're not really giving credit. So so when jensen wong did his two-hour um keynote uh, that micah and I watched he mentioned the transformers a lot. He mentioned that but never gave credit to google. Yeah I mean a lot of it's like. It's like a bell labs moment from google. Right, paris, were you trying to with yourself? I wanted to make sure I had stepped over you there, paris transformers, iterative self-attention and processing for very various tasks.

0:52:23 - Leo Laporte
They picked the name Transformers from Day Zero. Is that a novel? The idea was the mechanisms would transform the information. It took in, allowing the system to extract as much understanding as a human might, or at least give the illusion of that when society breaks down due to a violent outbreak that turns victims into undead monsters, oh good, that's Day.

Zero Good branding. Well, he also says Society breaks down due to a violent outbreak that turns victims into undead monsters. Oh good, that's day. Zero Good branding. Well, he also says and I played with the Hasbro Transformer action figures when I was little, so that was the other I think I was probably trying to fix them the sentence that began the paper we are awesome, okay, anyway, I haven't read it, so I will not, and I'm certainly not capable of commenting on it, but probably worth mentioning that Google started this all. The BBC is developing AI plans, the Beeb this is from Financial Times. They want to build artificial intelligence models. They're negotiating content deals with companies. Of course, the Beeb has a lot of content. They're seeking to use decades worth of journalism to train a generative AI model that could then power products tools to help journalists produce stories and then can be used in-house. You ain't going to get an AI to take the place of Douglas Adams and write the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, or are you?

0:53:56 - Jeff Jarvis
Maybe you can. Sal Khan said he really wants to write a sci-fi novel, yeah, and so he's using AI to help him, and he said it's hard. He said it's not there. He tried to say, well, no, develop this character more, do that, more this. And that he said it's not there yet, but he thinks it will be. Yeah.

0:54:14 - Paris Martineau
I think it could be an interesting use case for a kind of a creative jumping off point.

0:54:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes.

0:54:19 - Paris Martineau
I guess, if you're talking about a novel, I'm confused as to how this would help BBC journalists. I mean, are they talking about getting B-roll from generative AI? Is that even a?

0:54:34 - Leo Laporte
good idea.

0:54:35 - Paris Martineau
They want money.

0:54:36 - Leo Laporte
I think though any company like the BBC that has decades worth of content. I mean, I think sometimes of what if we could take everything we've ever done and I don't know what we'd get out of it feed it into an AI. It'd certainly be good for searching and summarizing. This is one thing I'm convinced about, which is that AI is a better search tool. This is really what Google was worried about.

0:54:58 - Jeff Jarvis
I disagree there. You don't think so I disagree there. No, no, in fact there was a piece. I don't think we put it on the rundown, damn it. That said that it's not going to be on search, so I use it all the time on search. Oh, here it goes, line 79 on the verge. Okay, let me just show you what I do, my. Ai search engines really can't kill.

0:55:16 - Leo Laporte
Google, give me a subject to search for. This is using, by the way, arc Search, which is, I'm sorry to say, not available on android because it's written in swift. They put this on ios because they they do a browser for mac and windows, but you can't really put a new browser on, uh, ios because apple, you know, owns the ecosystem and everything has to be safari under the hood. But they did do something interesting they attached an ai to its search. So give me something to search for. What is the origin of jazz, let's say of jazz? Where did jazz come from, daddy? Now, okay, now I can do a regular search, which I just did by accident pressing go. But let me go back here and do a browse for me button, and I've showed this before.

0:56:04 - Paris Martineau
It's the new.

0:56:05 - Leo Laporte
I'm feeling lucky? Well, not exactly. It's using ai to generate and I've showed this before a dedicated page that I think is better than a search page. There's louis armstrong jazz origin new orleans and beyond. It's. This is all generated text from a from, and they tell you the source pages. While they're doing it, they even give you links to them. This is a really good, in my opinion, article about the history of jazz, without hallucination, using many sources, including Wikipedia, but also jazobservercom, the Library of Congress, jazzinamericaorg, americanhistorysiedu, levine, musicorg, britannica bbc, and, honestly, this is better than a google search for that topic, I think it depends on what you.

0:56:55 - Paris Martineau
Okay, let's separate, yeah I mean I I have questions, though, which is like what if it's a more politically fraught topic? What if it is a topic that does have hallucinations in the results? Also, what are the downstream effects on all of the sources of the information being shown there?

0:57:13 - Leo Laporte
Well, that's a really good question and we've brought that up.

0:57:15 - Paris Martineau
Let's say this takes off as the dominant form of search. Are any of those websites going to be updated in five, 10 years if they're getting no page views because everything is coming from a Internet browser generated search?

0:57:32 - Leo Laporte
page, but let me show you what Google does, because Google doesn't do something that different, it just yeah.

0:57:38 - Paris Martineau
And it's currently getting in regulatory trouble for that.

0:57:40 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, so show my screen. This is Google search. It gives me a Wikipedia article with some of the same pictures. It gives me people also ask.

And then it gives me some of the same which link to things and then links to the same kind of places. Now I guess the good news is this links directly to jazzobservercom, so I'm only going to get a snippet and then if I want to see more I actually have to go to the page. But from the point of view of the user, that synopsis is in many times that's all you want, but it still gives you the links so you can go deeper if you choose.

0:58:19 - Jeff Jarvis
Which is better than what I think you get out of AI searches.

0:58:22 - Leo Laporte
No, no, no, no. I'm saying, the AI search was better.

0:58:27 - Jeff Jarvis
That is AI I dare to disagree with you.

0:58:29 - Leo Laporte
Well, I dare to say you're wrong.

0:58:31 - Jeff Jarvis
It depends on the kind of search you're asking.

0:58:33 - Leo Laporte
I wish you had an iPhone, because I really would love you to use ARC search for just a week, just to see, but I'm not joining the cult.

0:58:40 - Jeff Jarvis
Thank you, I think, if you use it.

0:58:44 - Paris Martineau
I have an iPhone. I you um uh the. I think if you use it, I have an iphone, I'll download arc search. I am the wrong person to ask to test this because I use like google search like a maniac. I've mentioned before that my google search habits on a daily basis cause almost every website to ask me if I'm a robot because I open too many pages at once but. Thing. And it's always like your browsing habits are unnatural for a human being. That's for work stuff and for just normal browsing.

0:59:11 - Leo Laporte
So there's two different kinds of browsing and I think the stuff that you do for work. You will use Google and you'll have all those tabs because you're doing a different kind of research. It's like going in my day. We would go to the library for this and you'd go and you'd you'd go to the card catalog. You write a bunch of numbers down, you give it to the librarian. They'd go up in the stacks, they'd bring a push cart with all the books and you'd sit in the reading room and go through them.

0:59:31 - Jeff Jarvis
Remember that, jeff, that's how hard it used to be yeah, yeah, gramps, I do. Yeah, that's what she's doing with google but I think, did you do that?

0:59:39 - Leo Laporte
but I think, paris, most of the time of us, when we do a search, we just want some specific tidbit. I actually do this with recipes. If I search for, you know, sole dore recipes, it will give me a bunch of different great recipes. Now I may still go to those webpages, but I think the AI is better at search than searches.

1:00:01 - Jeff Jarvis
I really do I think people should be worried.

Let me break in here. The problem is you're acting as if search is one activity. What the Verge piece does and there's various taxonomies around this is that it separates navigational searches. A lot of people just use it to find a site and get to it. Ai is no good for that. No, I agree, they want informational searches. Well, it depends on what kind of information you want. If you want a current sports score or something like that, it's going to be no good at that. You want kind of browsing searches. So I want to see what the realm is. I want to see what's possible Not going to be good at that.

The test you're putting it to is explain this one thing to me and okay, presumably you trust it to not be all wrong and screw it up because it doesn't do facts. Okay, if it were right, maybe that'd be better. But those other kinds of also shopping searches are not going to be good that way. And there's other taxonomies that have other things in them. I'm writing this long paper about the California Journalism Preservation Act and there's some really old research that talks about information searches and they try to argue the industry does that they're all news searches. No, they're not. I'm looking for Paris hotels, or I'm looking for.

1:01:11 - Leo Laporte
I just did a search for stretch pants.

1:01:13 - Paris Martineau
Oh, a lot of hotels Okay.

1:01:14 - Leo Laporte
I just did a search for stretch pants using the same technique. It looked at Amazon.

1:01:19 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, you had a lot of food in Mexico, did you yeah?

1:01:22 - Speaker 3
It looked at Amazon. I never thought about. I looked at Macy's it looked a lot of places.

1:01:26 - Leo Laporte
Here's men's options. Women's options.

1:01:28 - Paris Martineau
Okay, I love that the title for it is Exploring the World of Stretch Pants.

1:01:37 - Leo Laporte
It looked through a bunch of different sites. It found me some. This is Amazon's Essentials Straight Fit, casual, stretch, chino. Here's Mag commson's men's golf pants. There's a variety. There's even a video of how to stretch your pants. I don't, I don't know about that. Uh, I think this is shopping. I think you're wrong. I think you can use this for shopping. I wish you had an iphone. You could try it. You could try it on the net, I guess, using perplexity, ai. Ask your friend Jason Howell, who just said that's what he uses. So I think that this is something Google should be very worried about, and I don't think that I agree. Content creators should be worried as well, but they're worried about Google too. 're not google not doing them any favors? Anyway, that's my thought on that, and we disagree, but someday you'll be using ai for search as well.

Dozens of top scientists, dozens count dozens, dozens, not scores, only dozens. Actually it is scores. It's 90, four score and 10, or what is that? Seven dozens, seven and a half dozens agree seven and see that's, that's a good title. Seven and a half dozen scientists sign, effort to protect, to prevent ai. There's a big difference between protecting and preventing. Preventing ai, bio weapons I think that seems like a good idea. Yeah.

1:03:08 - Paris Martineau
I mean, but how? What does signing do to prevent ai bioweapons?

1:03:15 - Leo Laporte
well, the problem is these guys aren't going to do it and maybe the federal government will listen to them and they'll go. Yeah, we shouldn't do it, but you can bet somebody doing it right now.

1:03:25 - Jeff Jarvis
I think we should start a letter from here. I think we should do our own letter. What?

1:03:28 - Paris Martineau
does ai bioweapon mean the uh?

1:03:31 - Jeff Jarvis
ai technology is used to design new proteins new proteins that could be used to harm humans. So good guys will agree and bad guys will still do it right. We need to start our own letter right here.

1:03:46 - Leo Laporte
Dozens of podcasters, uh, write letter to protest ai podcasting and then, yeah, fortunately we don't have to worry about that, because ai podcasting is never going to happen, because it's not worth it. No, you know, actually, this to me is that five percent humans have such a finely tuned biology to just to uh discern something that's not quite right. We, you know it's the uncanny valley effect that this is one of the reasons I don't think ai illustration really is going to go very far, uh, because I think it's hard to bridge that last five percent and we are good enough to see one percent. So, uh, I, I think that there'll be a, that we're going to be somewhat protected by the fact that anything ai generates as a movie, tv show, podcast, art, even writing, I would submit, even writing will be not, it'll be just a little off.

1:04:43 - Jeff Jarvis
Did you watch the news? The seven new Sora videos, Line 70?

1:04:47 - Leo Laporte
They're all off, but I'll let you. Okay, let's look at them together, but they're pretty amazing. Yeah look. I'm not saying they're not amazing. It's a great tool.

1:05:03 - Paris Martineau
But you can tell they're just. You know they're not amazing. It's a great tool but you can.

1:05:05 - Leo Laporte
It's a great tool. You can tell they're just. You know they're a little off. Yeah, yeah, but in the right new sora videos sounds like a strange new line in 12 days of christmas. Here is a short film by shy kids called airhead um. You look at the. The feet are wrong. You can kind of just there's something weird about it.

1:05:14 - Jeff Jarvis
It's pretty impressive.

1:05:15 - Leo Laporte
Alright, it's good, I'll admit it.

1:05:17 - Jeff Jarvis
So wait, wait until you get to the punchline.

1:05:19 - Leo Laporte
That's not a normal bicycle seat Whose head is a balloon. He's not wearing stretch pants, but he is wearing a stretch head. Look at that.

1:05:27 - Paris Martineau
Okay.

1:05:32 - Leo Laporte
Actually, this is really a good question. Can AI tell jokes?

1:05:36 - Jeff Jarvis
Can AI be funny? I want to see what the prompts were to make this possible. Here's the joke. He walks carefully through a store with cacti because he's a balloon.

1:05:44 - Leo Laporte
This is a company called Shy Kids, a multimedia production company, and they use Sora for their films. So, yeah, so that doesn't mean I think this is a human-AI collaboration. Probably that's what I'm curious about. Here's one from. I'll stop that one, so this stops. This is from Paul Trio, a multidisciplinary artist, writer and director. It is. It doesn't have a title.

1:06:14 - Jeff Jarvis
He says Working with Sora for the first time.

1:06:17 - Leo Laporte
I felt unchained as a filmmaker, unrestrained by time or money or paying people that I will work with yeah.

1:06:29 - Paris Martineau
Finally, I'm unchained and can get a computer to generate a person covered in mirrors that turns into a ball with arms.

1:06:36 - Leo Laporte
It's kind of like Airhead Better stay out of the cactuses. Mirror ball man. Wow, that's wild. Yeah, this is cool. I think there's a cool texture.

1:06:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, it's cool, it's all in the right hands, it's amazing. Now the problem is this is God knows what this cost to process.

1:07:00 - Paris Martineau
So this is going to be in the hands of the Spielbergs and such? Well, that's another interesting question.

1:07:01 - Leo Laporte
Three very beautiful sea creatures died to make each one of these videos. Yeah, you see, all of this is a little off.

1:07:04 - Benito Gonzalez
And also upon inspection, you'll see. You can really see, you can tell. And my contention is oh, this one has the worst stuff.

1:07:13 - Paris Martineau
Bicycle repatch is what it said oh God.

1:07:18 - Leo Laporte
My contention is there is this notion afoot that, oh, it's just a matter of time, it's going to get better and better and there's this kind of steady progression. But I think, like self-driving vehicles, it's very likely a lot of this stuff will reach that top 5%, where it just can't.

1:07:33 - Jeff Jarvis
Leo, we're going to tell on you You're supposed to be an accelerationist, I am. It's going to be perfect In the right directions In the right directions. I think the mistake AI proponents make is saying it's going to do everything. Well, the mistake is making human beings the scale upon which. No, let's make machines that do really great machine things. Exactly. Let's make really great tools. Yeah, which this?

1:07:57 - Leo Laporte
is a pretty amazing tool. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, more than anything else it's interesting.

1:08:02 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I don't like that one.

1:08:04 - Leo Laporte
This one with the fox cat snake, the ostrich giraffe, the giant fly, the griffalomingo.

1:08:13 - Paris Martineau
All of these are bad, bad, bad, bad.

1:08:16 - Leo Laporte
This is Uncanny Valley, right Freaking you out. Oh, pigs do have wings. Who knew? Who knew A pig could fly? Roger Waters would be so happy to see this.

1:08:26 - Paris Martineau
And they have no front hooves. They can't.

1:08:29 - Leo Laporte
Hooves, they don't need them.

1:08:30 - Paris Martineau
They don't need them, they just fly forever yeah.

1:08:33 - Leo Laporte
Now this forever? Yeah, Now, this is interesting because this guy's not trying to do humans, he's a sculptor and he's actually doing sculptures with Sora, which is kind of interesting, I guess.

1:08:46 - Jeff Jarvis
It's a tool for creativity. Lev Manovich is doing a lot of work around from City University of New York around art and creativity and AI, and I think it's something to be open to as a tool. It's like engraving was an amazing tool when it came out Around Gutenberg. It wasn't just text, it was also images in all kinds of new ways.

1:09:05 - Leo Laporte
Here is a new attempt, or at least a description of a potential attempt, to make AI more interesting. Collective AI Think the Borg. Only it'll be nicer, so the I like the illustration in thenextwebcom of, probably generated by Sora a Borg no, actually it's a photograph, I guess. Is that what this means when they have a little camera? It's like cosplay, it is. It's some guy pretending to be Locatus. Anyway, collective AI, the idea being that you get it's actually going to get a better result, because you have AIs that are spread around geographically talking to one another, and one unit can join the collective by connecting to one existing member who, in turn, shares the addresses of the other members. Oh no, this way we can create a dynamic collective of units that can join or leave at any time. It's not here yet.

1:10:09 - Paris Martineau
I believe this is the plot to the Matrix.

1:10:13 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, by the way, you were two years old-year-old when the matrix came out. Today, this week, march, I think 25th was the matrix's 25th birthday 24th the 25th anniversary.

1:10:26 - Paris Martineau
I was a few years older, a little a child, a small child 25 I was a wee child.

1:10:33 - Leo Laporte
A wee. So mom and dad did not take you to see the Matrix.

1:10:40 - Paris Martineau
They did not. Have you, I have seen all the Matrix movies multiple times.

1:10:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, they're great, I honestly liked the fourth one. Oh God.

1:10:50 - Paris Martineau
A controversial opinion.

1:10:51 - Leo Laporte
It is very highly controversial.

1:10:53 - Benito Gonzalez
It was better than the second and third, maybe.

1:10:56 - Paris Martineau
I agree.

1:10:57 - Leo Laporte
I went in to see it 25 years ago without any preconceived notions. I hadn't read anything about it, I didn't know what it was about. I knew it was a sci-fi movie with Keanu Reeves. That's all I knew. And I walked out with my eyes, about six inches wide, blown away, and I was 20 years old at the time, so it was the right age to hit that. Yeah, I was older than you at the time. It was a big deal. Yeah, I was 40, what did I be? 42. But it was mind-boggling and really the premise of it is that we are in a simulation, in this case created by malicious machines who are simply using our body for battery packs, but they have to convince us to stay in the little pods, so they pretend that. You know, they give us a, a world to live in, and, uh, and that's where the world has podcasts and that world has podcasts and flip phones, orange flip phones and uh and and phone booths.

Oddly enough because it was 25 years ago, uh, that was maybe a mistake in the matrix but it also gave us the term red pills and blue pills, right? Because, uh, if you take the red pill, then you go down the rabbit hole and you discover what the world really is. Or take the blue pill and you can continue to operate as as normal, never knowing that you're just a battery pack for the machines, an expression that has been misused by extremists now in terrible ways.

I use it all the time and I'm an extremist, that's the AI segment.

1:12:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, wait, wait, wait, young man, wait, wait, wait, did you order?

1:12:34 - Leo Laporte
Humane or not. I didn't. I do see the demo video.

1:12:40 - Jeff Jarvis
you don't need to show it, I just was we saw demos at uh mobile congress number. People came up with demos if I can just mention a few things, I'll go in the past. We don't do the stories. Microsoft is going to require a co-pilot key, says intel?

1:12:53 - Leo Laporte
no, they have. We talked about it on windows weekly. It's uh, where they used to have a menu button, a contact menu button that no one ever used, on the right of the space bar. Now they will have a copilot key. That will you touch it and you'll get smarter, and it's going to mean that I will never buy another Microsoft computer. Bad enough. They have a Windows key. Now they have a cop key. Now they have a co-pilot key.

1:13:20 - Speaker 3
Um yeah, by the way, I think that the, uh, the tiktok.

1:13:24 - Leo Laporte
The move to ban tiktok has gone through, because I clicked that link, a tiktok link, and what do I get? Bad gateway.

1:13:31 - Jeff Jarvis
So it's over it's over bad gateway bad, bad, was it? And then, if I can follow up on one of the stories that we did while you were gone, the uh, microsoft is paying inflection 650 million for the deal we talked about last week. Inflection is the information inflection is pi.

1:13:51 - Leo Laporte
Oh, this is the one where they basically uh, they took it over acquired. Yeah, weird, weird way, we didn't know what the deal was in fact microsoft's own head of ai departed as a result.

1:14:01 - Paris Martineau
Yes, a lot of you know no a lot of senior people from inflection have now just been absorbed into microsoft. The company's kind of been hollowed out, but investors got 650 million dollars, so the.

1:14:15 - Leo Laporte
The inflection raised one and a half billion in two years to develop Pi, a chat bot. But really it wasn't Pi that Microsoft was buying, it was Suleiman, yes, yeah, the head of inflection, co-founder and CEO, mustafa Suleiman All right. Thank you, I just want to get those little notes, so it's gone. Yeah, and the guy who he All right, thank you, I just wanted to get those little notes, so it's gone. Yeah, and the guy who he replaced said see ya, goodbye.

Well, it was going to be Sam Altman's job, don't forget that's true Founder of venture firm Airstreet Capital says the price seems like a lot. Says the price seems like a lot. Is it at some point? Are people going to have sunk so much money into AI and not made it back that they go? Oh whoops. Is there going to be an AI bust to go with the boom?

1:15:09 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, you're being heretical again, Leo. I don't know what vacation did to you. What is?

1:15:12 - Paris Martineau
happening. Were you replaced on the beaches of Cabo?

1:15:20 - Jeff Jarvis
No, I'm a big believer, believer in ai I really am.

1:15:21 - Leo Laporte
I think it's a we were talking about the beach with tristan harris, we were, uh, we, uh, we were talking about this before the show. Uh, because benito pointed out the great costs of generating, you know, energy costs alone of generating these models.

1:15:34 - Benito Gonzalez
Uh, it's, it's expensive yeah, it's not a question of whether they'll be good. It's a question of whether they'll be good. It's a question of whether they'll be profitable, profitable, can they be profitable?

1:15:42 - Jeff Jarvis
Will it be useful? I mean, I think, that Not even profitable.

1:15:45 - Benito Gonzalez
Like, are people going to pay for it to make it? Well, that's what they're only going to pay for it if it's useful to them.

1:15:50 - Jeff Jarvis
Right, step one is utility. Step two is revenue. Step Step two is revenue. Step three is profit, and you may get lots of revenue, but it may be too damn expensive, right. So you're right, but it's profit in the end. But you've got a few steps on the way there.

1:16:03 - Leo Laporte
I likened it to asteroid mining. We know that there is a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, but it's hideously expensive to get there.

1:16:08 - Jeff Jarvis
This is why you have to read City on Mars, because they cover that as well. It cuts through all. You know Elon Musk has so much BS, but the whole we're going to move to Mars is and I knew it was BS, but it's so much BS here that I even knew.

1:16:22 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I knew that. Actually, Daniel Suarez, who is a good friend and a great science fiction author, told me that years ago. He said nobody's ever going to live on Mars. It's impossible, it's toxic. Yeah, yeah. What is it? City on Mars? It's toxic, yeah, yeah. Um, what is it city on mars? I'm going to add it to my wish list, yeah, yeah it's.

1:16:41 - Jeff Jarvis
I listened to it, marked it by kelly and zach wienersmith yeah, it's good, yeah, it's pot, it's very good pop's eye.

1:16:49 - Leo Laporte
Can we settle space? Should we settle space? Oh, it's already in my wish list so because you put it in before.

1:16:55 - Jeff Jarvis
But you ignored me. Me as you always do. I continue to ignore you.

1:16:58 - Leo Laporte
Let's see what's in my shopping cart.

1:17:00 - Paris Martineau
You've got two credits expiring in 25 days, Leo.

1:17:03 - Leo Laporte
You could buy this for one credit. I know what I do is. I go that day just because I don't want to lose those credits which I will at the end of the month. I go and I put something in my shopping cart. Let's see what's in my shopping cart. Why do yours expire right now? Because I have old ones. I have old ones I have. So I'm I'm buying, one by one, all five volumes of robert caro's biography of lyndon baines how long is that? Very long of an audiobook very long.

the second volume is divided into three, each of more than 20 hours, and that's just volume two. Lisa and I are listening to it. It's the Path to Power, which is 40 hours, and right now we're in the back hills of.

1:17:49 - Paris Martineau
Texas. How is the narration?

1:17:50 - Leo Laporte
It's good. Grover Gardner is one of my favorite readers, so I don't mind that. Book two is 22 hours. Book three is 18, 3.1, sorry, sorry, 18 hours. Book 3.2 is 16 hours, but 3.3 is 18 hours, and book four the I would say the final book, but I don't think it is is 32 hours he's yeah, I think he's got one more.

He's still working on one, yeah yeah, so uh his editor has died in the middle of it, so yeah, then the other book I have in here is the uh novel uh, that poor things was based, on, which I don't know if it's good or not. I haven't decided yeah, I loved the movie, really loved the movie, um. So I thought it might be a good novel. I don't know, I have to have to think before I do it. Maybe I'll replace it with a city on mars, I might just. I think you're gonna like it, I think you're going to like it.

1:18:37 - Jeff Jarvis
I think you're going to like it. It's up your alley.

1:18:40 - Leo Laporte
Scientists.

1:18:42 - Jeff Jarvis
Jammer B. It's up your alley too. Did you read that? Have you read A?

1:18:45 - Leo Laporte
City on Mars. Oh, I thought you did. Okay. Somebody I know did Scientists, that's me and you ignore me. Some guy I know Some guy, I ignore him. I don't pay attention to cranky guy, no, no, somebody else besides you, uh. But it has been recommended scientists turn to ai to make beer taste even see, I told you there what can't ai do?

researchers in belgium, the home of beer, use artificial intelligence to improve taste, but say the skill of the brewer remains vital. Okay, of course they say it in Flemish, which makes it sound even better.

1:19:20 - Paris Martineau
Let's see. What do those Belgian monks have to think about AI?

1:19:24 - Leo Laporte
Whether you prefer a fruity Lambic or a complex Trappist, they make high alcohol beer. I love Lambics. Belgian beers have long been famed for their variety, quality and heritage. Professor Kevin Verstreppen of KU Leuven University, who led the research, said AI could help tease apart the complex relationships involved in human aroma perception, mmm. They analyzed the chemical makeup of 250 commercial Belgian beers of 22 different styles, including lagers, fruit beers, blondes, west Flander ales and I used to go out with her and non-alcoholic beers. Among the properties studied alcohol content, ph, sugar concentration and the presence and concentration of more than 200 different compounds involved in flavors, like esters produced by yeasts and terpenoids from hops. Wow.

1:20:22 - Benito Gonzalez
But the AI can't taste it.

1:20:24 - Leo Laporte
No, it'll never ever taste it. Poor AI Isn't that sad? And, honestly, I really think as much as I'm an AI accelerationist and I really want AI to take over. What is going on? You're walking it all back. No, I'm an AI accelerationist and I really want AI to take over.

1:20:38 - Paris Martineau
What is going on? You're walking it all back.

1:20:41 - Leo Laporte
No, I'm not. I'm calibrating. Calibrating, Because there is this thin layer of things like making beer. I don't think AI is going to really be good at that. It's called having taste. What would be a tool?

1:20:56 - Benito Gonzalez
to help. It's having, taste it's having taste, it's having taste.

1:20:59 - Leo Laporte
Ai has no taste.

1:20:59 - Paris Martineau
We need to make a big metal tongue and be able to taste beer.

1:21:06 - Jeff Jarvis
Draw that AI Beer drinker with big metal tongue, big metal tongue. Oh, go to MidJourney and see what it does. I could do it. I could do it.

1:21:20 - Leo Laporte
Beer drinker with big metal tongue. Okay, who needs humans? Who needs humans? See, I've always felt this there's a thing that humans do and are that is somehow different in quality, and maybe it's only humans that think that. By the way, it doesn't have to be anything, but we're the judges. So it could just be made up, it could be in our imagination. Oh my God.

1:21:50 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, an AI could never come up with a big metal tongue. Oh, these are terrifying.

1:21:55 - Leo Laporte
Oh jeez, I think that's Jeff yeah.

1:21:59 - Paris Martineau
Yeah.

1:22:02 - Leo Laporte
Let's see some more big metal.

1:22:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, they're angry, oh boy, they're so angry. What did you ask for the?

1:22:07 - Leo Laporte
tongue is no longer metal. I want to stick with the.

1:22:09 - Paris Martineau
They're so wrinkled.

1:22:11 - Benito Gonzalez
I think it's taking metal into a different context.

1:22:18 - Leo Laporte
Oh, do you think these?

1:22:19 - Paris Martineau
are like metal rock, metal how about metallic.

1:22:20 - Leo Laporte
If I said metallic, would that be better.

1:22:22 - Paris Martineau
Search big metal tongue no beer drunk.

1:22:24 - Leo Laporte
Oh no, just big metal tongue.

1:22:27 - Paris Martineau
Big metal tongue. Let's see what it comes up with that.

1:22:30 - Leo Laporte
Big metal tongue.

1:22:36 - Paris Martineau
There is our scary big metal tongue guy yikes oh, I don't like it, but the beard looks good. Metal tongue, doesn't it?

1:22:45 - Leo Laporte
doesn't look good. Well, big, small, it's kind of all relative looks like a porcupine not the beard, the beer oh, the beer doesn't that look refreshing and delicious? I suppose yeah. I'm using Midjourney 6. Oh, oh, that is not a big metal tongue. I don't know what that is. In fact, everything but the tongue is metal. That's just bizarre, that's bizarre.

1:23:09 - Jeff Jarvis
The teeth. Okay. So I tried to use Midjourney from this Discord and I can't anymore because they took it. Took down the free, you used it too much.

1:23:19 - Leo Laporte
That's all wait till next month. You can use it some more right.

1:23:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Most of them, the robots, cannot comprehend a large metal tongue that is a science fiction novel.

1:23:34 - Leo Laporte
By the way, the guy who coined the term singularities, a science fiction author, verner vingy, passed away uh this week. Uh, much eulogized by many people. He's, like philip k dick, a science fiction author. Science fiction author. You know, people really loved him, uh, and he was the guy who first postulated that maybe an ai would become human-like and we would call that you know it's his fault singularity. Yeah well, I don't know, fault is the word, but he certainly was the first to think of it, this whole agi thing, yeah, two hugo awards.

Um he uh first coined the term singularity as related to technology in 1983 in an op-ed piece for Omni magazine. The word singularity had already been there in terms of black holes in space-time. Right when discussing creation of intelligence is far greater than our own, he wrote. When the singularity happens, human history will have reached a kind of singularity. Singularity happens, human history will have reached a kind of singularity. And when this happens, I guess when intelligence becomes greater than our own, when this happens, human history will have reached a kind of singularity and intellectual transition as impenetrable as the knotted space-time at the center of a black hole and the world will pass far beyond our understanding. He said that was going to happen before 2030. He might not have been wrong. That's what I've been talking about, by the way.

The singularity, the singularity when it's going to get really weird. What else is in AI? As AI booms this is to your point, benito land near nuclear power plants becomes hot real estate because, more ways than one, you need energy. Actually, it's probably land that Bitcoin miners gave up when they put the having. They're going to sell it along. You need a lot of water also.

1:25:33 - Paris Martineau
Oh, do you oh for cooling.

1:25:34 - Leo Laporte
Yeah For cooling, yeah along. You need a lot of water also. Oh, do you? Oh for cooling, yeah for cooling yeah what was you watched? The? Uh nvidia? Uh talk benson jensen wong's talk. He talked about their new processor, which was what? Thirty thousand dollars each? Yeah, something ridiculous for ai.

1:25:55 - Jeff Jarvis
Here's an article that agrees and he talked about it being more efficient. Not. This is what what micah can point out every time he talked about environment. It was not yes, it's more efficient, they can do more. That doesn't mean you save energy, it just means being able to use it to do a lot more stuff here is a contribution from one of our club members Detroit J, holland.

1:26:17 - Leo Laporte
Hi Detroit J. That's a metal beer drinker. All right, it's an alien, it's true, hr Geiger's metal beer drinker, what else? Here's why AI search engines disagrees with you. From David Pierce, editor at large, and the host of. Birdcast you talked about this last week why it can't kill Google, the AI search tools are getting better but they don't yet understand what a search engine really is and how we use them.

David's been on the show. I like David a lot, but he's wrong. Okay, all right, we've done it. Okay, okay, let's pause, let's pause, let's pause. Is there? I've just been, you know, looking for all the ai stories. Instagram co-founders. Ai powered news app. Oh, this is good. Remember? Kevin sistrom announced that they were going to shut down artifact. Now he says, hey, it turns out it takes a lot less to run than we had imagined, so let's get rid of all that stuff. Yeah, now that it's just the two of us, we're going to keep it going the elon musk approach, but just fire everybody and see.

See what happens here's an inspiring quote. It'll still likely go away. Well, now, I'm definitely in, but we're exploring all possible routes for it going forward. Okay, I liked what is article or artifact again, it was a social news reader that would aggregate stories for you based on what you read and spent time looking at, but then also had your friends involved and it was kind of like you know there's been so many of these, but what was the great one that twitter bought and basically killed was jonathan nuzzle, nuzzle.

1:28:00 - Paris Martineau
I loved that nuzzle I loved nuzzle's feature to just the simple feature of showing me the links everybody I follow.

1:28:08 - Leo Laporte
Yes, uh, tweeting or replying back in the good old days when twitter was twitter, nuzzle was nuzzle. It was a good, it was a good time. The internet was time. The internet was the internet. The internet was the internet. The Intercept has sued OpenAI not for copyright, which actually is difficult, and I think that Kathy Gellis has said this several times on many of our shows Copyright is probably not the venue to go after AI with the Intercept shows. Copyright is probably not the venue to go after uh ai with uh the intercept, as well as the progressive news sites raw story and alternate filed lawsuits claiming open ai had used their stories to train chat gpt without permission or compensation. Well, that sounds like copyright dmca, copyright DMCA. Oh, DMCA.

1:28:55 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, the Times included some DMCA violations, but basically these smaller sites can't copyright all of their news articles in the way that they would need to. Were they to sue based on copyright, says this article. Okay, so we'll see. They've sid sidestep the issue seeking that representation. Um yeah, so just another way to go, after which, which kind of still disturbs me, because if they're just the machine's just trying to learn, so all it wants to do is learn, we're gonna pause for a moment.

1:29:30 - Paris Martineau
We're not gonna open, we're not gonna reopen this can of worms guys, we're gonna pause for a moment. We're gonna pause for a moment.

1:29:35 - Leo Laporte
We're going to pause for a moment. Yes, ma'am, and join our metal tongue beer drinkers Ooh.

1:29:44 - Paris Martineau
Joe. At least that's the closest we've gotten to a metal tongue here, yeah, but Joe's going to have nightmares Only human ingenuity can do that.

1:29:51 - Leo Laporte
Only a human could make this sticker. For those who are only listening, it is one of Joee esposito's famous round stickers. The text around the edges says the things I do for the club metal tongue beer drinker. It has a guy in a hoodie holding a generic bottle of beer. He looks in every respect like a typical everyday bro, except for the fact that he has a massive silver tongue I would say it might be even lead or pewter coming out of his mouth.

1:30:19 - Paris Martineau
Some sort of gray epoxy situation?

1:30:23 - Leo Laporte
While experts may differ on the material the tongue is composed of, there is no question it is giant and metallic looking. We'll be back with more. Aren't you so glad you tuned in for this show today? How does this compare to the show that Paris did last week? A little better, a little worse, a little worse, right? Well, last week was Micah, last week was Micah, paris was two weeks ago. Two weeks ago.

1:30:46 - Paris Martineau
yes, it's true, we've had a while to come down. Sorry.

1:30:54 - Leo Laporte
Though they're going crazy with the metal tongues. I don't know, I don't know. This week in Google continues Jeff Jarvis, Paris Martineau. What should? Should we do a change log? We haven't done a change log, it seems, in so long.

1:31:08 - Benito Gonzalez
Did you guys do?

1:31:09 - Leo Laporte
it while I was gone. No, we did Did you?

1:31:14 - Jeff Jarvis
We did a change log. We did. Oh, that's right, you did. Did you? We did a change log. We did oh, that's right, you did.

1:31:18 - Paris Martineau
I think there were two things in there.

1:31:19 - Leo Laporte
Oh well, good news. There's two things in it today. Both of them were jokes. It's time for the Google Change Log, google Chat, rolling out voice messages for Jeff Jarvis. It's workspace only. What, what? The ability to record and send voice messages? Wait a minute, I don't care less. You know why. It's workspace only.

1:31:48 - Paris Martineau
It's voice messages, which is what my group chat calls friend podcasts.

1:31:54 - Leo Laporte
So is your group chat in Signal? Is it in WhatsApp? What do you use?

1:31:58 - Paris Martineau
It's on iMessage. It's the Bourgeois Ski, my recreational skeeball team, and we send a volume of messages that is so great that many of us have to delete the group chat regularly from our phones in order to make it operate. Wow, some of those messages are friend podcasts.

1:32:17 - Leo Laporte
I am surprised that people don't use. You can dictate, but this is actually you press a button and you'll record a message which then will be sent along, you know, to the recipient.

1:32:29 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, I would say the voice messages is mostly used. If you have a story of medium to difficult complexity to tell yeah and you don't want to type it out and it would be too annoying to type out.

1:32:43 - Leo Laporte
So, hello, group Paris and I have been talking about our next ski trip and we've decided that Sugarloaf is the place to be Wrong ski Leo, wrong ski In 43.

1:32:55 - Paris Martineau
Wrong ski. Oh, it's not that kind of ski reference's not we're gonna throw big balls down the hill while we're skiing. It's gonna be very dangerous never mind.

1:33:05 - Leo Laporte
This friend podcast is over. There you go.

1:33:09 - Paris Martineau
That's it right there are they about that long, or do they?

1:33:11 - Leo Laporte
go on, and on, and on, and on uh, they're.

1:33:16 - Paris Martineau
Typically you can tell it's going to be a good friend podcast when after a minute or two, the person's like, oh, it's going on too long, I gotta pause and do another one.

1:33:25 - Leo Laporte
Um so god, uh. So now you can do that in your work. The reason it's workspace only is because google chat is workspace only. That's the last place. Google chat continues.

1:33:36 - Paris Martineau
I forgot remember we used to have hangouts and then they turn so many products that do or do not exist, or exist in some liminal state this is a liminal state.

1:33:46 - Leo Laporte
I love it. Good word, yes, it is the dreamlike recording, with web support coming soon. Uh, so now you can have a friend cast right in there, built right in, it looks exactly the same. Or you could use iMessages and do it everywhere. And now, ladies and gentlemen those of you who use Google Messages you'll be very glad to know. Google has started to roll out Gemini Beta AI in your messages Scarlett could be talking to you. Gemini in Google Messages beta is rolling out for some.

You have to have a Pixel 6 or later or a Fold, or a Samsung Galaxy S22 or later or a Z Flip or a Z Fold. You also have to be a beta tester. You have to have RCS enabled. You have to have a personal Google account. You have to be over 18. And this is the showstopper for me no family link, I guess, because your family and friends might see what you're up to. Uh, you have to have english set in 165 plus countries, but canada you can have french, and then I guess it will use gemini. Well, here's an example from 9to5Google You're in a new conversation and Gemini offers to write, plan and learn more with Google AI. So you can just call on it.

1:35:09 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm so excited, well, I got a third one, you could use Another. Yes, within Google. Within Google yes, up to line 67. Okay, change inside Google Within Google yes, up to line 67. Okay, change inside Google, their brand new fancy huge roof tent-like PT Barnum Bayview office. Yeah, is horrible for Wi-Fi. Really, is it because of the roof which? They say is not doing a good job for coming back three days a week? Is it because of the roof? Which?

1:35:38 - Leo Laporte
they say is not doing a good job for coming back three days a week. Is it because of the roof. Google spokesperson acknowledged we've had a Wi-Fi connectivity issue in Bayview. We've made several improvements. Oh, you know what? They're probably using those crappy Google Wi-Fi. No they're using industrial ones?

1:35:51 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, I hope so. Managers have encouraged workers to stroll outside or sit at the adjoining cafe, where the Wi-Fi signal is stronger. Oh my God, some were issued new laptops recently with more powerful Wi-Fi chips.

1:36:05 - Leo Laporte
It is a 600,000 square foot building and some think that it's the swooping, wave-like rooftop that is swallowing broadband signals, like the Bermuda Triangle.

1:36:18 - Paris Martineau
How would that work? How would a roof affect the Wi-Fi signal?

1:36:23 - Benito Gonzalez
It could cause weird, yeah bouncing right Bouncing, I guess, and then it concentrates somewhere weird.

1:36:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, interference. Yeah, because Wi-Fi, I mean, goes everywhere. Right, metal is notoriously bad. Wi-fi doesn't penetrate it because it's such high frequency, so it bounces off the roof.

1:36:39 - Paris Martineau
That's not probably needing to go through the roof.

1:36:42 - Leo Laporte
It doesn't have to, but it bounces, that's right, it bounces off.

1:36:45 - Jeff Jarvis
It's ricochets, so it can't find itself again.

1:36:48 - Paris Martineau
Ding ding ding.

1:36:50 - Leo Laporte
Wow, I don't know. Greg Bensinger writing in for Reuters.

1:36:58 - Jeff Jarvis
A little stretch for the old changelog, but I thought you'd like that.

1:37:04 - Leo Laporte
And that's the Google changelog. I thought that was a good changelog. Thank you very much. I appreciated the additions.

1:37:17 - Jeff Jarvis
All right, you pick.

1:37:18 - Paris Martineau
I don't know where you want to go from this you got one, paris, I got some.

1:37:22 - Jeff Jarvis
You go first, jeff. I'll pick Credit to Kashmir Hill. Just like Paris has notches in her laptop, so does Kashmir. She wrote a story about how auto companies were selling data to data brokers, who, in turn, were selling it to insurance companies, and now General Motors is not going to do that anymore. So good on you Cash. That's a good one.

1:37:44 - Leo Laporte
GM said, you agreed to it, but okay, we'll stop.

1:37:48 - Jeff Jarvis
Next week I'm going to be in Washington doing which. By the way, next week I have to be hard, hard out to make the train at 730, because the next morning I'll be giving a talk at the IAPP, which is whatever it stands for privacy people, and I'm on right before Kashmir, so I get to congratulate her Nice Say hi, I will yeah.

The thing about Kashmir. I just want to say, since I complain about a lot of media coverage I complain about moral panic, about the you know, the internet and privacy and all that cash beers coverage is always spot on where she looks at a real harm like this and doesn't engage in a stupid moral panic, emotional stuff.

1:38:28 - Leo Laporte
I agree it's good reporting, I agree. Would you ask her if she'd like to join us on a twig?

1:38:32 - Jeff Jarvis
Certainly yeah, she's. She's been on a yeah, yeah, she's done some of our shows but not in a while, and I think it would love.

1:38:39 - Leo Laporte
I'd love to get it because she's wonderful, tiktok, how's it doing it's?

1:38:47 - Paris Martineau
good uh ask the senate tbd.

1:38:50 - Leo Laporte
I mean, yeah, ask the senate we had a big debate on twit on sundayanna Wu, who, as you know, ran for Congress a couple of years ago I think in the 2020 cycle said that due to her connections with politicians, intelligence communities, so forth, she believes that TikTok really is a threat, that the Chinese government is using it against us, and she was very adamant in favor of banning TikTok. Kathy Gillis, who you all know as an attorney, was very adamant in saying it's a free speech issue. Yep, and Congress does not get to unilaterally say we're going to kill a social network just because it's owned by the Chinese. What do you?

1:39:33 - Jeff Jarvis
say Paris.

1:39:34 - Paris Martineau
I mean I think TikTok probably has a strong First Amendment case against the bill. It seems likely that arguments that it's like unconstitutional that they could hold up.

1:39:48 - Leo Laporte
It also has a, I think, a strong common sense argument against it, which is we allow Russia to have Russian russian television in the united states. The cct chinese tv cctv is on in the united states. We don't block those networks because we're america, you know. The chinese may block it, they even block tiktok, but we're not china like we chat, but the internet's different, we even allow, we chat in the united States.

Furthermore, there's an article from the Intercept. I don't know how we feel about the Intercept and their journalism but I'm not a Glenn fan. But the Intercept had a very interesting.

1:40:27 - Paris Martineau
He's not there anymore, isn't he out, is he?

1:40:28 - Leo Laporte
gone. He's long out.

1:40:29 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, alright.

1:40:30 - Paris Martineau
He's been long gone.

1:40:31 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, he still has some of his spirit there, I think.

1:40:34 - Leo Laporte
They say Elon Musk, Musk at the same time as he's. You know, fighting the good fight against government surveillance is profiting off government surveillance, Surprise surprise, surprise. He apparently sells information to brokers data brokers. We know he's done a very poor job of getting nation state actors off of Twitter. I think the Chinese government has a very active presence on Twitter, as do the Russians.

1:41:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, he's also with Tesla. There's another story in here somewhere that with Tesla he's in China's pocket Right?

1:41:17 - Leo Laporte
Well, of course, because it's a big part of his uh, his uh sales, as it is apple's, by the way. Tes, uh, twitter sells data to a company called data miner. I guess the name kind of says it all uh, data miner. Uh monitors public activity on social media, provides customers with real-time alerts on desired topics, giving, according to the intercept clients like the police, a form of social media omniscience. The alerts allow police, for instance, to automatically track a protest as it moves from planning stages into the streets, without requiring a warrant or any time-intensive searches. Dataminer defends its service. First Alert, its governmental surveillance platform, is a public safety tool that helps first responders react quickly to sudden crises, but it has also been shown to be used by police to monitor First Amendment-protected online political speech and real-world protests. They have long touted a special relationship with x as integral to first alert. In fact, elon, I'm sorry, twitter previously owned a stake in data miner, although they divested before the purchase. Yeah, so even pre-elon right, who started data miner?

1:42:36 - Jeff Jarvis
is that a um?

1:42:41 - Paris Martineau
on right. Who started data miner? Is that a? Um? I know the data miner is used by a lot of large journalism organizations.

1:42:44 - Leo Laporte
Oh, it is, it's kind of a clipping service, in a way. Right, um, a representative of the surveillance company, wrote to the secret service in july 2023. They said that data miner has a unique contractual relationship with Twitter, whereby we have real time access to the full stream of all publicly available tweets so-called fire hose. Right, Uh, that is something hard to get and expensive. So, uh, I, you know, I mean Elon might say he's you know, say he's all for you know, keeping the government out of our business, but he's happy to sell it to him.

1:43:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, he also says he's Mr Tough Guy on criticism, but then he sued critics and got slapped.

1:43:33 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and he fired Lemon, don Lemon, if he dared ask any questions about his point of view. So we don't know what's going to happen with the tiktok. I do hope that. I mean, look, if you allow things like twitter and of course you do, because any attempt to shut down twitter by the government or to somehow protect your privacy by the government would be immediately met by intelligence services saying you can't knock that off, we use that, it's very important to our police activities all over the country. They're not going to do that, it's easy to go after tiktok and china, because it's china anyway.

I you know I have to stand out of this because I, my son, really made his name in his business on TikTok. So I guess I you know.

1:44:20 - Jeff Jarvis
How much is he using it these days? You said he kind of shifted.

1:44:23 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, well, I always said to him please don't be dependent on a single platform. But the thing is, the algorithm on TikTok was the key element that catapulted him from 30,000 followers to 2.6 million followers. That was critical. From 30,000 followers to 2.6 million followers that was critical. Now he's been able to kind of do. He does stuff on YouTube and Instagram, but it's not as popular, it's not as big and it's probably not as effective for him. The algorithm on TikTok, if you can somehow get it to promote you, is incredibly powerful and I guess that's what people are worried about, that the Chinese government could then, you know, use those levers to what I don't know propagandize the American public.

1:45:02 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know, shall we look at a current Salt Hic recipe just for the fun of it? Let's do a sample Just while we can. While we can. You know, I haven't asked him. He's there promoting his book. I see that. Oh yeah, he's no fool yeah, he's no fool.

1:45:19 - Leo Laporte
I uh I haven't actually asked him, uh, how he feels about a tiktok band 2.7 million followers. It is one of the few places where he could get like 2.3 million. Look at this one. This recipe has 10 and a half million views. Um is one of the what's his most popular video.

1:45:37 - Paris Martineau
You can sort by popularity can you? Let's go here, uh, if you go up to the top or I don't know. If you can do it on, you can do it on mobile. At least it should be under videos.

1:45:47 - Leo Laporte
I'm looking at the users liked.

1:45:48 - Paris Martineau
Videos are private oh, I guess you probably can't do it um, yeah, it's too bad, but but if you look at, instagram, you'll see.

1:45:55 - Leo Laporte
You don't see how many views you have. You don't it's. You don't see so many of these. It's just not. It's too bad. But if you look at Instagram, you'll see. You don't see how many views you have. You don't see so many of these. It's just not done as well. 8.1 million, 2.3 million I think that 10.5 million might be one of the top ones.

1:46:12 - Paris Martineau
Oh, wait a minute, here's one with 23.4 million His number one most popular thing on TikTok has 71.3 million Jesus From September 2021,. It's a lamb burger.

1:46:26 - Leo Laporte
Oh. So here's the thing, you know. This is why I kind of can't weigh in on this, because it's very clear to me that those numbers and his popularity and his ability to write a cookbook and make a very good living, uh, comes from the tiktok um platform. I have a question like how god bless it yeah, like how popular is this?

1:46:49 - Benito Gonzalez
like in terms, in like the context of the rest of tiktok food? Or like no salt hank, like how big is he?

1:46:55 - Leo Laporte
oh, I don't. I think there's many bigger people on tiktok, mostly celebrities right 2.7 million is.

1:47:01 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think that's part of not exactly the problem, but part of what we are seeing in this shift to more decentralized platforms like tiktok is there's probably hundreds, if not thousands, of creators the size of Salt Hank.

1:47:18 - Leo Laporte
Right.

1:47:19 - Paris Martineau
And none of them overlap.

1:47:20 - Leo Laporte
That's a beautiful thing, which is good. I would rather that than you know, kim Kardashian gets another billion followers. I want to see the diversity.

1:47:29 - Jeff Jarvis
So, to shut this down, I think Charlie D'Armelio right, Did I get that right? Yeah 152 million. Wow, wow, mr Beast, though only 93.7.

1:47:43 - Paris Martineau
Well, he's on. Youtube is his main thing.

1:47:45 - Leo Laporte
But I think that's also a point, which is you know people say, oh, it's fungible. You know that's what Brianna said oh, no big deal, you shut down TikTok. They all go to Instagram. Go to Instagram. It isn't fungible. There's a YouTube audience. Henry has not been able to crack that audience very well. There's an Instagram audience, which an Instagram just copied TikTok. So in some ways I mean, shutting TikTok down is just saying to Mark Zuckerberg you win. Let's all move everything to meta and meta platforms and Henry is not quite as successful. He's well over a million followers. But and maybe Instagram? He says I think Instagram is his most important platform now. But it's not all the same and you have different audiences on each. The fact that Mr Beast hasn't become huge on TikTok is very telling.

1:48:33 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, it's interesting too, leo, that I'm looking at the Wikipedia list of the most followed TikTok accounts and, unlike other things, it wasn't taken over by corporate, so it's not down until you get to 33 before you get ESPN.

1:48:47 - Leo Laporte
I'm surprised that many people watch ESPN. To be honest with you, it isn't that kind of place. Oh, kb Lame is great. He's the guy who I actually love his TikToks. He's number one with 161 million followers. He's the guy African. This is a great example. Okay, he's from Senegal, right, doesn't have a lot of resources. He got his start doing TikTok duets, where you take a video and then you respond to it, and it was like people would show this complicated way to do things and then he would just do it and then go and his whole person. I mean this guy would not make it anywhere else and yet, uh, you know, I mean amazing this is why I get angry at people who scold about you should all get off Twitter.

1:49:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, as I keep on saying, black Twitter is still there. They haven't managed to find a substitute. They built something of value. It's hard to move a community, it's hard to move a genre like this. Yeah, musk is ruining it and it's dying. That's another story. In the rundown, the numbers are going way down for TikTok, for Twitter, but there are things of value still there, people of value still there well, and for a guy from senegal to suddenly, do you know, with very simple production values, this has 36 million views.

1:50:11 - Leo Laporte
I mean he, you know, he's obviously got a cop costume. He's got something that kind of looks like a radar gun. It's not Something goes whizzing by and stops, does something to the smartphone. He's funny, right, but he's not going to make it on broadcast networks. His cop outfit says cop on it.

1:50:38 - Jeff Jarvis
Like a political cartoon yeah, like Jerry.

1:50:42 - Leo Laporte
Lewis yeah, and you know, it's just a camera on a tripod. Here's an example of where somebody can't figure out how to use a soap dispenser and so KB goes. So this guy says, look, you need this tongs to use the soap dispenser and turn it around and you can dance. And KB goes. Well, or you could put your hand under the spout or turn it around, and then here's his trademark. Here's his trademark. Now, that's as simple as can be. Did that in his you, his attic right? Nothing to it. I love it. Very few people who I just think it's great. So the the most followed person.

It's a wonderful thing, yeah and I don't see the chinese government in this at all. I think it's a sign of phobia, but it is, I agree.

1:51:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, we'll find out the senate we're waiting on the senate.

1:51:42 - Leo Laporte
Biden has said he'll sign it.

If he does so, whether or not schumer is going to bring it to a vote, even schumer is holding off because I think chuck quite rightly says if we pass this, b Biden will lose the election Congress will get. There are tens, maybe hundreds of millions of young Americans who will say screw that, it would be horribly unpopular. That's the kind of thing that brings him out in droves. Mit has claimed that a superconducting breakthrough this is maybe the last best hope for climate change. A superconducting breakthrough means fusion power can be practical.

1:52:23 - Jeff Jarvis
How often have you heard that story, Leo? How often have you talked about that story? I keep waiting.

1:52:27 - Leo Laporte
I keep waiting. More than two years ago we did the story where MIT claimed scientists were able to generate energy in fusion. That's the power of the sun which on Earth takes so much energy it's not economically feasible because you have to have it at absolute zero. This breakthrough claimed that the magnet-based design used in these tests is practical, economically viable and produces more energy than it uses. This is kind of a review of those two-year-old findings. It changed the cost per watt of a fusion reactor by a factor of almost 40 in one day. Fusion produces no pollutants because it's fusing molecules together to create water.

1:53:17 - Benito Gonzalez
We're going to need that for the AGI. We're going to need that for the AGI.

1:53:19 - Leo Laporte
We're going to need it for the AGI Right. Okay, what else? What else Do you care about the Pixel 9? Are you all up about the Pixel 9? What Google users announced is this in the spring, in the summer, I can't even remember anymore. I feel like we're due. I know the new car is summer, I can't even remember anymore. I think I feel like we're due uh, we have the new cars out.

1:53:41 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't remember anymore I don't know anymore.

1:53:43 - Leo Laporte
When's the new tv season begin, jeff? Exactly when is sweeps?

1:53:48 - Jeff Jarvis
no, none of that matters anymore, right? That's why I I delayed our honeymoon because of sweeps, sweeps, sweeps week gotta write about it.

1:53:56 - Leo Laporte
On tv guide, google pixel 9 design revealed through 5k renders this uh, it's a two uh camera solution, two lens solution. There will also be, according to this leaker, a pixel 9 pro xl. So there'll be a Pixel 9, pixel 9 Pro and then an extra large Pixel 9 Pro XL. That's the first time there's been an XL since the Pixel 5. Do we care?

1:54:27 - Paris Martineau
Are you going to upgrade Jeff?

1:54:29 - Jeff Jarvis
I've got a 6, so I might. Oh yeah, you're due, you're due.

1:54:34 - Leo Laporte
I have the 8. I don't, I bought it just because I kind of keep up right, but honestly, if you're a smartphone buyer, you wait for the A version. That's almost like 90% of the big boy version for half the price, I think. Probably the smart buy. Hey, I wonder what Marissa Meyer's up to these days.

1:54:56 - Paris Martineau
You ever ask yourself that you ever wake up saying I do actually well, every couple of days I wake up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night and think what?

1:55:03 - Leo Laporte
is marissa meyer. Whatever happened to marissa meyer? She was, of course, got google employee number four or whatever in charge of the search page for a long time. Uh left, quite famously, to run yahoo into the ground. I mean, well, it wasn't her fault, they were already in the ground, but she wasn't able to get them up off the ground, and so she kind of moved on. She's been doing little apps, and her newest came out today shine by sunshine I wonder, design is interesting.

1:55:31 - Paris Martineau
Awful awful. Is awful the correct description?

1:55:35 - Leo Laporte
in fact, I saw on twitter somebody said you know the design's awful. She said contact me, we need some designers. I agree. So she's famous for her design sense, but the idea is cool. You install the app. Ai then looks at all your photos yes, you have to give it permission. And then it says hey, you were, there was an event, you want to share this. So, for instance, I installed it this morning and it's already come up with some events, which is pretty cool.

It says you want to create an album of your trip to Mexico? Sure, it uses AI to pick the best pictures. And then you can share it with somebody Wow, that's the best pictures, huh. And then you can share it with somebody Wow, that's the best pictures, huh. And then you can share it with somebody and then share it automatically. The idea is we all go to events and we forget. Oh gosh, you know, we should have had everybody send their pictures to Google Photos or whatever. So what you do is you say install Shine and this is my created a Madonna album from the Madonna concert I went to.

I think, that's kind of cool. And then I can use a QR code to invite them to the Madonna album or just send them a link. I think that's cool. Yeah, yeah, I guess I guess Big long tweet thread announcing it this morning. See, I do visit Twitter for stuff like that. Mm-hmm, I bet you she acquired this. I don't know if you know. I doubt she wrote it.

1:57:07 - Jeff Jarvis
She's been releasing. She has a whole contacts thing. Yeah.

1:57:11 - Leo Laporte
Sunshine is the contact thing. Yeah, so all right. All right, see, now I have slaked your thirst. Iphone only right now, android coming for sure marissa, you came from google, I know good reviews my question is leo, what does this do that like sharing an iphone? Nothing and all her point. Well, that's what everybody asked, so I'll go back to Twitter. Everybody said well, marissa Paris wants to know what does this do that you know Google Photos really doesn't do? Yeah, but you're right. Also, I'm sure, your skis folks, you have a shared.

Yeah you can do a shared album. Yeah, uh, I do. I have one from. Every time I take a picture of my wife, it automatically uh shares it with her, which is kind of cool, so she doesn't have to say, oh, send me that, send me that. She still does. But uh, every once in a while I'll say, oh, I don't need to, you already have have it. Here's her tweet, pinned tweet, introducing Shine, an intuitive. And then people say doesn't Google Photos literally do every single one of these things already? This guy says it looks like an Indian wedding invitation from 2007. And then startup founders if you're ever worried that your minimum viable product isn't ready for launch, just come look at this tweet and see what someone with a network worth of 600 million thought was good enough. But mostly the reviews are pretty positive. It is Twitter after all. Right, many congratulations for the launch of shine. You guys seem to have run out of steam. Should I? Should I pause?

1:59:11 - Paris Martineau
and no, no, no, no jeff is just tweeting, sorry, oh, got oh got a tweet.

1:59:17 - Leo Laporte
Got a tweet.

1:59:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Got a tweet. Well, Politico.

1:59:20 - Paris Martineau
I haven't sent any tweets.

1:59:22 - Jeff Jarvis
Politico called AI the world's most dangerous technology. How could I not Moral panic?

1:59:31 - Leo Laporte
Push the button. Benito, Push the button.

1:59:34 - Jeff Jarvis
It's moral panic. I've got a bad feeling about this. So why are they calling it the most?

1:59:43 - Paris Martineau
dangerous technology.

1:59:45 - Leo Laporte
As the New York Times interviewed you for your obituary, Jeff, because if they haven't, I would definitely bring up moral panic.

1:59:51 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, all this outrage over my death is a moral panic. You should read more about this in Webs we Weave. It should be your quote for the obit.

2:00:00 - Leo Laporte
Tell us about the books Jeff Jarvis. What, what books? Where can I go? Where can I go? Oh, we're there already.

2:00:09 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, oh, we haven't even done our things. What things no?

2:00:14 - Leo Laporte
that's next.

2:00:16 - Benito Gonzalez
Oh I see I'm going to do the books now. Magazine available Before everybody leaves, exactly.

2:00:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Go to GutenbergParenthesiscom where there's a discount code for both my little book magazine and my big book, the Gutenberg Parenthesis. And soon the web we weave. Soon the web we weave.

2:00:34 - Paris Martineau
How does the size of the web we weave hold up in between? Is it in between the two?

2:00:40 - Jeff Jarvis
well, that's what you said.

2:00:41 - Paris Martineau
The magazine is a tiny book. Yes, uh, gutenberg it's between the two. It's between the two inside.

2:00:48 - Leo Laporte
I didn't hear perfectly in the middle oh good so I will uh in my, uh my blurb that I'm going to send off to your editor any day now I will write that here is Jeff's latest book, somewhere in Between Magazine and the Gutenberg Precious.

2:01:02 - Jeff Jarvis
It's his medium opus.

2:01:04 - Leo Laporte
There we go, incorporating a corpora of knowledge about the web. Is it about the web?

2:01:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, it is, and AI too. Specifically the one that we weave the full title is the web we weave, why we must reclaim the internet for moguls, misanthropes and moral panic.

2:01:26 - Leo Laporte
I agree, I agree, yes, uh, in fact, let's point to david k's article on the risks of internet regulation.

2:01:37 - Jeff Jarvis
It's a very good article. David Kaye was the rapporteur for the UN on free speech and internet and this is a wonderful piece that just goes through in a very sane way. Okay, I understand why you're doing this, but you can use 12-foot IO to get it for free, but there's issues. It's in Foreign Affairs Magazine. You can use 12 foot IO to get it for free, but there's issues.

2:02:00 - Leo Laporte
It's in Foreign Affairs Magazine. Yeah, he starts by talking about TikTok. So good, ron DeSantis has signed a bill in Florida that makes it required that if you are under 16, you have to get parental consent before you can have a TikTok or Facebook or Instagram or Twitter account.

2:02:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Hasn't he also signed.

2:02:26 - Paris Martineau
Isn't there a rule banning social media for users under the age of 14?

2:02:33 - Leo Laporte
Is that Utah, or is that Wyoming, or I forget where that is the bill requires social media platforms to prevent kids under 14 from creating accounts and delete any that they find existing. So yes, it also requires parents or guardians to consent for 14 and 15 year olds to create or maintain social media accounts. Companies that fail to promptly delete accounts belonging to 14 and 15-year-olds can be sued on behalf of those kids. This is the favorite, isn't it? We're not going to do anything, but we'll give parents the right to sue the pants off these guys and may owe them up to $10,000 in damages each. A knowing or reckless violation can be considered an unfair, unfair, deceptive trade practice, subject up to fifty thousand dollars in civil penalties per it's a first amendment issue.

2:03:24 - Jeff Jarvis
The supreme court has ruled against these kinds of age-related things many times before. Um, and it'll, it'll it. This is all performative.

2:03:33 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, he knows it won't fly yeah notably, this law also uh requires online like porn websites to use age verification systems. Yeah, liners, off the platforms a topic we've talked about in the show a million times, because what that means in practice is every adult who visits a porn website now probably has to enter in their driver's license info.

2:03:56 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh yeah, and to people who are so trustworthy, yeah, that you want them to have your personal data Of course.

2:04:05 - Leo Laporte
That's great. I think, honestly, these laws are not intended to protect children, but to actually stop pornography. I think that's the real covert reason. Right, they know that this is?

2:04:17 - Paris Martineau
are you saying it's a moral panic?

2:04:22 - Leo Laporte
I'm saying, there we go. Uh, must be. No, I mean it's. I think that that's the underlying thing as well. So what? Nobody should be watching porn anyway. So we can't ban it outright. But this way we'll make it so untenable that, in effect, it'll be banned well, it was.

2:04:40 - Jeff Jarvis
In listening to the to the testimony about the method, I can't say it method pristone, plan b, baby, thank you, that's easier. Um. Listening to the testimony about plan b of the supreme court, it was frightening to me how often they were discussing the comstock act. Oh, we don't want that to come back. Amy Sohn has a really good book about Comstock called the man who Hated Women.

2:05:04 - Leo Laporte
It was a ban on birth control information.

2:05:08 - Jeff Jarvis
And pornography and all kinds of things. Birth control still, yes, yeah, 1873. Back then they knew he was a self-appointed moral entrepreneur who made himself the censor of the U S mail.

2:05:21 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I thought he might've been the postmaster or something. No, no, no, he was some guy.

2:05:25 - Jeff Jarvis
He was kind of yeah, and then he, he got a quasi official role. Uh, burned countless books. So he, you know, threw them away. Um books, you know threw them away, got people in jail, banned publications. Awful, awful person. The worst of American censorship.

2:05:45 - Leo Laporte
And 150 years later, there's still plenty of people who think, yeah, we got to do this. We got to ban birth control, got to ban pornography, got to ban sex. Let's ban sex, except in the creation of good Republican children. Tennessee has adopted the elvis act, which I think they just voted for because it was such a great name. Uh, frankly, uh, the elvis act is, uh, what does it stand for? Some ridiculous retronym. Yes, it is ridiculous. Uh, it's. It's to prevent what you know, what do you know what?

2:06:17 - Paris Martineau
go ahead ensuring like it's just right there on the screen just right there for the lead.

2:06:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Okay, come back to the lead.

2:06:24 - Paris Martineau
There you go ensuring likeness, voice and image security.

2:06:28 - Leo Laporte
Act of 2024 but what it does is, uh, replaces the state's right of publicity law, which you know isn't a bad thing. Protects your name, photograph and likeness to also include your voice and AI-specific imitations.

2:06:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, the publicity part was if it was commercial. Now it's any use, any use and which is again an effort to kill fair use and expand restrictions such that satire, imitation, garage bans, all get banned. The history's interesting. And my namesake, the other, jeff Jarvis is an Elvis impersonator, right, really, oh he wouldn't be able to do that.

2:07:18 - Leo Laporte
So this all started after Elvis impersonator Right, Really oh he wouldn't be able to do that, so this all started after.

2:07:20 - Jeff Jarvis
Elvis passed away. Elvis impersonator, you'll enjoy that this started.

2:07:23 - Leo Laporte
After this started, my realtor's an Elvis impersonator. Maybe we should get that. No, really. Yeah, he's about this tall too. It's great.

2:07:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Maybe have you gotten this. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Have you gone to see your realtor?

2:07:40 - Leo Laporte
perform. Well, he performs in the street, so it's not so hard, oh really. Well, for instance, butter and eggs day is coming up. John, as you know, our our great national holiday.

2:07:51 - Jeff Jarvis
It's the chicken, it's the chicken headquarters of the world Butter and eggs day parade.

2:07:56 - Leo Laporte
Am I having a stroke? Stroke, it's the end of april. You, you're new to the show. You have not yet heard of the butter and eggs day parade. Uh, it's very exciting. Uh, it's coming up in petaluma. Uh, in april, april 20th. So, by the way, if people are coming to, our open 20 yeah, 420. Yeah, always a good day for butter and eggs. Uh, because you got the munchies and they make butter statues.

2:08:22 - Paris Martineau
They've got a big sign up there that says I move, therefore I am um, is that Hitler's birthday?

2:08:34 - Leo Laporte
I think it is. I believe so, I believe so. I will not be in town that's the week I'm going to visit my mom, but the following but you might want to come to town early because the following day we're opening our studio to our audience our Club Twit members. So if you are a Club Twit member and you want to come for Butter and Eggs Day, stay for the show the next day and I will be back in time for that. But our next day is always a lot of fun, including, of course, the world famous cutest little chicken town contest, the good egg contest and the Elvis performances of my realtor. It's always a good time. Wow, is he as good as the one I just put in the? That's really. This guy really is good that's Jeff Jarvis johnny, come for our new year's show.

Oh, johnny was there with maryland, so do you? Was jeff here for that new year's show? That one of our new year's 24 hours of new year's eve we had a maryland monroe impersonator and an elvis impersonator and the elvis impersonator was my realtor. That's hysterical. That's very funny.

2:09:39 - Paris Martineau
Leo, because all the running joke, in Brooklyn at least, is every broker here is also a DJ, so it's interesting to see the Petaluma version of that is Elvis impersonator. Elvis impersonator.

2:09:53 - Leo Laporte
Patrick Delahanty is yelling at me. He's saying if you do want to come to the live recording on september, I'm sorry, april 7th or 21st, you must. Space is very limited. We do not guarantee you a seat. You must indicate your interest by going. You have to be a club to it member. Go to the discord, press the button uh and fill out the form, because you or just go to ticketstwittv, but you must be a Club Twit member to come, and I think it's almost sold out. Actually, the April 21st show is sold out, so April 7th is your target date. Good reason to join the club.

We do stuff for club members, including our Inside Twit coming up on Friday. You also get ad-free versions of all the shows. You also get video of all the shows. We actually we changed kind of how we did it. We used to put some shows inside the paywall. We decided to make them all available in audio. So Hands on Macintosh, hands on Windows. The Untitled Linux Show for the first time ever, scott Wilkinson's Home Theater, geeks, ios Today all available audio to the public, ad supported. But if you're in the club, you can also see the video without ads. You get access to the discord, which is a great place to hang. Actually, that was the one thing during my vacation I continued to do is it would visit the club to a discord because it's it's my peeps, and all of that's for seven bucks a month and it really helps us in the long run because we'd like to keep doing what we're doing and I don't want to have to become an Elvis impersonator. I like the mustache.

2:11:28 - Paris Martineau
The mustaches are really good. Should I go for that? And the flying?

2:11:31 - Leo Laporte
books, flying books. I like that. I think I'd look good with a mustache. What do you think? Yeah, kind of a Tom Selleck kind of vibe going on there.

2:11:41 - Jeff Jarvis
Except you'd only get it if you dyed it, right?

2:11:43 - Leo Laporte
I might get a black one if I. If I, my eyebrows are still dark. Have you ever contributed to keep a network of shows alive and growing from the comfort of your desk chair? Have you ever helped support creators you enjoy with just the click of a mouse? Have you ever been a part of a fantastic community of people who love technology as much as you do? Have you ever subscribed to a podcast club without ever having to leave your home? Well, now you can. Twittv. Slash Club, twit. I should be selling reverse mortgages in that outfit Tomorrow. Long ago, where were we Butter and Eggs Day? How did we get to Butter and Eggs Day? Oh, elvis. I'm just trying to backtrack. Jeff Jarvis, jeff Jarvis, oh, elvis Presley Act. Okay, so this all goes.

2:12:44 - Paris Martineau
We're actually still doing the intro of the show.

2:12:46 - Leo Laporte
This all goes back to oh, we haven't introduced Jeff yet. No, this all goes back to 1984. Elvis Presley passes away. Normally, publicity rights end at your death. That's how it used to be forever. If you pass away, then then your likeness Fred Astaire's likeness can be used in a vacuum cleaner commercial or whatever. The Tennessee legislature didn't like that, so they passed the personal rights protection act to protect Elvis Presley's publicity rights after his death. Well, now the Elvis Act goes one step farther, protecting you in every possible form for everybody, forever after Apparently. Federal government is also working on something similar. A bipartisan group of House lawmakers revealed the you ready no Artificial Intelligence, fake Replicas and Unauthorized Duplications Act. The no AI Fraud Act Does some of the same things, which would also go along with the Senate's Nurture Originals, foster Art and Keep Entertainment Safe Act the no Fakes Act. And keep entertainment safe act the no fakes act. Can you guys just get to work and fix the problems that we actually have? Can?

2:14:02 - Jeff Jarvis
you defeat Russia, maybe Just a thought? Just a thought.

2:14:05 - Paris Martineau
No, they're going to spend all their time thinking of really cool acronyms. That's 75% of the job.

2:14:11 - Benito Gonzalez
Wow. The question is why do they even need the acronym? Can't they just call it that and then give it, like some? Whatever acronym, it's not sexy, benito.

2:14:17 - Jeff Jarvis
You can? Yes, you can. You can still call it that, though.

2:14:19 - Leo Laporte
You know? Oh yeah, you could. You don't have to have an acronym. I see what you're saying.

2:14:22 - Paris Martineau
It doesn't have to stand for it.

2:14:29 - Jeff Jarvis
It could just be called the no Fakes.

2:14:32 - Leo Laporte
No, okay, okay, geo media, by the way. Uh, we were talking about them earlier. Gizmodo and quartz owners are selling the av club and they're putting the onion up for sale don't tell you on oh, don't buy the onion elon. Oh my god, oh my god, don't even speak that out into the world oh my god, paris, what are you working on at the information? You got anything. Can you tell us anything, anything big?

2:14:58 - Paris Martineau
I can't tell you anything about what I'm working on currently, but, uh, read the information great website.

2:15:05 - Leo Laporte
A lot of good stories on there sure is, and you know what else, rana mcdaniel is not a contributor that's true, unlike msnbc.

2:15:15 - Paris Martineau
No, they fired her latest it's just in.

2:15:18 - Leo Laporte
They said yeah, all right, if rachel's not happy, we're not happy, um. But which?

2:15:23 - Jeff Jarvis
which uh executive needs to go walk the plane?

2:15:27 - Leo Laporte
along with her, I think. But all right, we'll see um the information. Good, oh, you did. Did you just get a redesign? And I wasn't even looking.

2:15:36 - Paris Martineau
We did a couple of weeks ago we also um recently won, uh, five awards at the saboos, which is the society of I'm forgetting what it actually stands for. It's like the society of business, writers and editors. It's an annual award conference for business and tech journalism, and the information won five awards and got two honorable mentions, which, I believe, puts us. I think only the New York times got more awards.

2:16:12 - Leo Laporte
So and you know what I like about the information most of the journals, blogs, would be on the front page, front page, and I was scrolling through all the stories. I couldn't even find it. So you know, not even tooting their own horn, that's good. Hee, hee, hee, hee hee, hee, but you can do that, that's good.

2:16:30 - Paris Martineau
I was going to say I'm out here tooting my own horn, that's your job.

2:16:33 - Leo Laporte
She's the chief tutor chief tutor there we go. Uh, let's take a little break. When we come back, you can do some pics of the week. I've been saving them up.

I was gonna say you've got a pic this week I've got a bunch of them, but I'll only I'll only foist one on you this week. You're watching this week in google jeff jarvis, paris martineau so glad you're here. Week in google, jeff jarvis, paris martineau so glad you're here. Glad you're back, boss. Oh, it's nice to be back. Let's start with paris martineau and your pick of the week paris my pick of the week is a little late.

2:17:08 - Paris Martineau
I recently updated my phone, after I don't know how many updates I've been missing, enough to where the ios clearly changed. I think that this ios update maybe came back came out end of last year but one of the things that came out with this new ios 17 update is an app called the journal app from apple, which honestly kind of reminds me of the features you were talking about in that you liked about the Shine app, leo. It's like a daily diary journal, but the thing I like about it is it uses artificial intelligence to kind of scan all the different things you do on your phone and suggest potential journal topics for you whenever you open it up. So let me actually open up my app and see what I've got here. For instance, the other week I opened it up on like a Saturday morning and I had gone to two parties that Friday night and it pulled up the photos from party number one, which was at a bar called Blinky's Bar, and it was like do you want to write about this?

What was your outing at Blinky's Bar like? And it has a little location there the photos and gives me the opportunity to write a brief bit about it and I really like it so far because it prompts you to write about things. I don't have to go and attach photos to my little journal entry. It's already there and I don't know. I've really been finding it fantastic so far it's.

2:18:34 - Leo Laporte
It's really cool. Uh, it's making some suggestions for me about my trip to Mexico. A outdoor walk I took, kind of rare event. Write about a memorable place from your childhood. Add its location to your entry highlights from your photo memories. Yeah, I love the suggestions, but I also what I love even more is that Apple's made that suggestion thing an API so other apps can use it and this is kind of contrary to what the DOJ is asserting about Apple.

So there's a journaling app I've used for years called Day One, which does, in fact, use these same suggestions. It uses the API. I like day one because it also adds like the weather from that, from every day, and so forth, so you know where you are and all sorts of stuff. It's a really great, great way to do photo albums and so forth. So, yes, I agree with you, for free, it's part of iPhone journal and kudos for Apple to Apple for making the AI underlying the suggestions available to other apps, and Day One is one of those apps that uses it. It's really, you're right, it makes it easy to kind of and you know, as a young person, as an old person speaking to a young person, do it Because when you get to be my age, the fact that you had a life will really resonate. You'll go, wow, it was great when I could walk. That kind of thing.

2:19:58 - Paris Martineau
it's really good just trying to treasure and preserve all those when I could still do ski balling boy, that was great.

2:20:10 - Leo Laporte
Uh, I want to do mine. I'll just throw it in there were many.

2:20:14 - Paris Martineau
This should have been my pick as well, because I also saw this over the last week and it's a great pick. This is the kind of thing.

2:20:20 - Leo Laporte
This is a total Paris Martineau pick. It is from the Netherlands, it is the fish doorbell, so I have to explain a little bit. There's a city boat lock in the city of Utrecht. Every spring, fish migrate upstream in searches of places to spawn. They go right through the center of the city, but during that spring the boat lock is closed, blocking the fish. Enter the fish doorbell. You can help because they've got a live stream of the water there it is, of the boat lock. At the bottom of the boat lock there's a camera. When you see the fish, any fish ring the bell and what will happen is there are currently, by the way, a thousand people watching this. For fish, no fish, it's just nothing. But what will happen is enough people ring the bell, the lock opens, the fish go through. You're helping fish and just so you know, there is a, a youtube channel called dutch wall fish, well named, that has some historic videos from the camera.

2:21:32 - Paris Martineau
Well, maybe not very many if you go on the fish doorbell link you're at before, you can click nicest photos and it will show you photos of fish that have been let in. So when you click the doorbell it opens the lock and the fish get to go through. Isn't that cool?

2:21:46 - Leo Laporte
Well, it takes more than one person to open the lock right. They accumulate.

2:21:50 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, because otherwise somebody, some jerk's going to open it for the sake of it.

2:21:53 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, just go hey, I like to open the doorbell. So it's kind of one of those fish doorbell things where it's kind of a group activity. Here's a crab in the fish doorbell, here's some fish. Is that a person or a frog? I don't know. Does it matter? If it's a person, let the doorbell bring the doorbell and let it in.

I can practically smell it yeah, the water is not the clearest in the world. This, this is right up there with the cambridge coffee pot, as is the best use of. It's. Great, I love it. The fish doorbell it is at visdurbellnl v-i-s-d-e-u-r-b-e-ln. L, or ask your ai to point you to the fish doorbell and I will replace this function soon, soon, so yeah, truthfully now, they don't really need us to do this. It's to make us feel better about our sand they want to use up all the cold water. Yes, yes jeff pick.

2:22:53 - Jeff Jarvis
all right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do three fast New York items. First is that the Forward, which is a venerable publication, used to be in Yiddish, used to be in print. It's now online. Only, they had a paywall, they took it down and their revenue went up 37%. What? How did what? Because people contributed more money than they were paying. Wow For yeah, do you think that would work for us? Uh, you don't have a paywall.

2:23:22 - Leo Laporte
oh, yeah, well what if we started a paywall and then took it down?

2:23:27 - Jeff Jarvis
uh, maybe. Yeah, you know I'm on, I'm on a podcast friday, because that's all I do all week is podcasts um gray matter oh, you're on Gray Matter.

2:23:37 - Leo Laporte
That's Alex Lindsay's podcast that he does with Michael Krasny.

2:23:41 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, alex recommended it with Michael Krasny, so they started.

2:23:44 - Leo Laporte
Gray Matter.

2:23:45 - Jeff Jarvis
I talked to the producer and so they started by doing membership instead of advertising. They might do advertising later. The members get to watch live and get to ask questions right, which is interesting yeah you know, it's good.

2:24:02 - Leo Laporte
What else you have all?

2:24:04 - Jeff Jarvis
right, so that's one, just to mention. Number two is, uh, you know, business insider does these ridiculous things where I went on a plane I'm going to take 40 pictures of my knees. It was actually started by henry blodgett. It was the first one he did Really. My friend invited me to Google's new New York office. So if you go to that Business Insider Story, you will see that they have a gym, they have all these things you expect. I didn't see a foosball stadium, but they have all this stuff. They have food.

2:24:31 - Leo Laporte
We know that, but you've been to Google in Mountain View. There's all sorts of stuff like this.

2:24:36 - Jeff Jarvis
But the reason I'm putting this here is they have a foot washing station. Well, why do they?

2:24:42 - Leo Laporte
need a foot washing station. This goes back to early days of technology history. There was a guy perhaps you've heard his name, steve Jobs who was a bit of a hippie and one of his first jobs was working at atari. He was somewhat famous there because he didn't believe in deodorant, uh. But he thought because he was bathing, or bathing because he was on a modern medicine, or my yes, because he was on a fruit diet at the time he's a fruititarian living on apples that he thought he didn't smell. But it turned out it was just that he couldn't smell himself. They actually made him work the night shift. The other reason was he had a habit of bathing his feet in the toilet and I think that this is probably proactive for people who might be wanting. Just in case. Just in case, do you want to follow in footsteps?

2:25:39 - Jeff Jarvis
oh gosh so to speak.

2:25:41 - Paris Martineau
It looks like there's no explanation of the purpose of the foot wash oh, it's obvious.

2:25:45 - Leo Laporte
Right, because where's the nozzle?

2:25:47 - Paris Martineau
it's right there washing station has a little bench, you can see. No, I mean like there's no, it's for when you get into the sauna, or what is it for?

2:25:56 - Leo Laporte
Oh no no, Paris.

2:25:58 - Jeff Jarvis
it says this is a foot washing station in that little sign.

2:26:01 - Leo Laporte
That's what that sign says. That's all it says. I can't read the small text.

2:26:04 - Paris Martineau
I know, but there's no. Why is it a foot washing station? Well, if you have to ask, Paris.

2:26:11 - Leo Laporte
I'm telling you, it's the Steve Jobs effect. There's a martial arts studio, fully padded, so that's good if you need to go in there and get some steam off, massage room and recharge room. I have one of these at home. Those are nice, the thumpers, the shop I don't.

2:26:28 - Jeff Jarvis
They have a merch shop, but I I don't. I looked up. I don't think it's for the public, I think it's just.

2:26:33 - Leo Laporte
It looks terrible this is the the saddest merch shop I've ever seen.

2:26:39 - Jeff Jarvis
It really is the new one, the new one in mountain view, which I went to when I was last out.

2:26:42 - Leo Laporte
There was sad it was really sad. Oh, this is the inside. That was just this, the storefront. Oh yeah, which was really pathetic inside. Not much more interesting unless you've got to have a google pack Packer thermos today.

2:27:01 - Jeff Jarvis
And if you work there, shouldn't they be giving you that stuff? Well, they can't give you all of the stuff.

2:27:06 - Paris Martineau
Ruth Porat you know they give away a lot of free stuff. You could spend $100 on a jacket at work.

2:27:09 - Leo Laporte
They don't know if you have a dog or a cat, so they're going to let you buy the Google branded leash and collar. Or you use that for your team. Micro kitchen where you can grow your micro greens. The cafeterias Do they still have free food at Google? I thought they phased that out.

2:27:27 - Jeff Jarvis
But when I was last there remember no cookies I was so appalled Well cookies are bad for you, jeff.

2:27:33 - Leo Laporte
Look at these beautiful bathrooms. Bathrooms are nice, nice co-working spaces, so this looks as nice as mountain view, maybe even nicer. Yeah, I met somebody who does this like that's their job is designing the google office spaces well, do they design the, the weird wi-fi one? Oh, whoops, you know, but you could wash your feet even if you can't get on the Wi-Fi. $2.1 billion office.

Where is this, jeff? Is this the one that they? Oh, this is the Hudson Square one, hudson, yeah, wow, very nice, yeah it is. I was thinking of moving there. Live in one of those high-rises by Hudson Yards.

2:28:14 - Paris Martineau
Go look at the vessel every day. Yeah, look at the vessel every day, yeah, look at every day.

2:28:19 - Leo Laporte
I go out the door, look at the vessel and go down because they were killing themselves off of it.

2:28:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, what they don't, let me know.

2:28:24 - Paris Martineau
The vessel is the vessel is closed because too many people jumped off it. Yes, which you could know.

2:28:31 - Leo Laporte
That's the reason. It's an attractive nuisance.

2:28:35 - Paris Martineau
It's just stairs.

2:28:36 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

2:28:37 - Paris Martineau
It's just stairs.

2:28:38 - Leo Laporte
That's the only. Thing.

2:28:39 - Jeff Jarvis
So you can't go on the vessel anymore. No, no, no, you know I wouldn't, because I'm scared of heights.

2:28:44 - Paris Martineau
It's like a big bridge, jeff, I will say after this week, I'm on your, you've got a lot of wise points when it comes to bridges. I will say oh, boy.

2:28:54 - Leo Laporte
Awful, yeah, very sad story and very sad. Uh well, let's not all right. One more, one more, one more thing to cheer us up, we're gonna.

2:29:04 - Jeff Jarvis
We're gonna go to to paris's borough. We're gonna go to brooklyn and borham hill. A new building, a lovely new building, trying to be in the neighborhood. A nice place. Read about it all. It has a steam room, it has all kinds of other things. It has a podcast studio.

2:29:23 - Leo Laporte
Oh, I'm moving there now in the apartment building I bet you the rent in that apartment would be less than the cost of our studio here right and you get to be neighbors with neighborhood with Paris. I like Brooklyn. Wow, Is this a good? Is Borum a nice place to live?

2:29:40 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, I like Borum Hill.

2:29:41 - Leo Laporte
Okay, it's cute. Yeah, cute's the right word. Yeah, yeah, is there a picture of the podcast?

2:29:47 - Paris Martineau
I want to see how what the rent is here. What's the idea?

2:29:52 - Jeff Jarvis
It says the small ones. They have five bedroom ones. They haven't priced that.

2:29:59 - Paris Martineau
The small ones start at. A studio starts at $700,000. A month. No, no To purchase. Oh okay, purchase.

2:30:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Actually, that ain't bad.

2:30:09 - Leo Laporte
That's not going to find anything under a million dollars. That's how much it would cost for a studio here.

2:30:14 - Paris Martineau
No for a studio apartment in Boreham.

2:30:18 - Leo Laporte
The studios in these big buildings are like barely big enough for a queen 1,100 square foot house in Petaluma would be a million dollars, believe it or not.

2:30:28 - Paris Martineau
Oh yeah, no. 1,100 square foot, anything in Brooklyn is going to be a couple million.

2:30:33 - Leo Laporte
Probably yeah. Studios of five bedrooms start at 700 000 12 000 square feet of exterior amenities, a cold plunge pool, a podcast studio, a steam room you do your cold plunge, you record a quick pop, a quick three.

2:30:51 - Paris Martineau
That's what I'm thinking then you go into.

2:30:52 - Leo Laporte
That's what I'm thinking. We spent eight thousand dollars a month on this. I could just shut this place down. Live in borum hills, do the show from there.

2:31:02 - Paris Martineau
Get one and a half apartments in borum hill and do the show from there well, yeah, I don't know if I want a studio.

2:31:09 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm a little old for that yeah, you and lisa would kill each other yeah, we know we'd have to have separate, a little separation sometimes. That's what happens when you get older, once in a while.

2:31:20 - Leo Laporte
Well, you know, the hotel room in Mexico had a single sink and we thought, wow, now we know why we have two sinks in the bedroom.

2:31:30 - Benito Gonzalez
Holy cow.

2:31:31 - Leo Laporte
You know that is hard, you've got to get out of the way. On the other hand, her grandfather grew up in a house with seven women in one bathroom or he was the dad, so they were. But yeah, wow, can you imagine that? Wow, yeah, I hope I haven't given away any family secrets here and if I have, please forget I ever mentioned it. Thank you so much for being here, paris Martineau theinformationcom, I really appreciate your visit every week and thank you so much for doing the show two weeks ago. Nice job.

2:32:07 - Paris Martineau
Thanks for having me, it was very fun.

2:32:09 - Leo Laporte
Yay, jeff Jarvis, I got the card. I got to read it as long as I still can. Is the director of the town? It was the director. I got to read it as long as I still can. Is the director of the town was the director?

2:32:20 - Jeff Jarvis
is the director Was yeah.

2:32:21 - Leo Laporte
No, that's past tense now. Okay, but you're still technically the Leonard Tow Professor for.

2:32:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Journalistic Innovation Until the August, when I add emeritus after the title.

2:32:31 - Leo Laporte
That's good. All right At the Craig Newmark. Hey, Craig, Craig Newmark. Graduate School of. Journalism at the City University of New.

2:32:38 - Jeff Jarvis
York, Paris. I'm sure Craig thanks you for making sure we did the song at the beginning of the show.

2:32:42 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, listen, I gotta make sure Craig gets his plugs in.

2:32:46 - Leo Laporte
See. If Craig wants to appear in the gear again anytime soon, I will. I will. Yeah, we like having him up there looking down on us with his pigeons. We do this Week in Google. On Wednesdays we're out about 2 pm Pacific, 5 pm Eastern, 2100 UTC. We're going to start on time next week because Jeff has to get on a train. Do you have to leave at 4.30 or you have to be at the train? I have to leave here at this exact minute. Perfect, okay, 7.30 my time. So next week we'll end three minutes earlier. There's a benefit right there. Yes, please.

2:33:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Last time I had to do this and I apologize for this, but you edited like 7.25 my time, so it was perfect. Yeah, good.

2:33:31 - Leo Laporte
No, I'm happy to do that. Dash to Metro Park. No, I'm happy to do that. I'll give my keynote the next morning. Yeah, we, it's anything that you'd use, you know, in the old days of the show you'd be in Davos, you'd be like going all over the world.

2:33:43 - Jeff Jarvis
You were yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to torch you with bad hotel wifi anymore. Plus, plus, I can't afford to travel, though I think I'm going to be in San Francisco Come by For a World Economic Forum event, fun and so no, it's the 28th of May, okay, and so then I would come by the next day to do both. I would see Jason and then come over to you. Perfect.

2:34:10 - Leo Laporte
Do two podcasts for the price of one. Yeah, I do remember you doing. I believe you appeared on this show from a darkened cafeteria, midnight cafeteria at davos one year. Yes, am I right? Is that my?

2:34:26 - Paris Martineau
that's my memory you did the show from the davos cafeteria the food was very good because oh I'm sure that it was late, so how was the wi-fi? There was no one there. It was late so it was dark. But how was the?

2:34:36 - Leo Laporte
Wi-Fi signal. There was no one there. Yeah, it was very dark.

2:34:38 - Jeff Jarvis
I did it from the press room. Oh, it was the press room. There were like three people. I did it various places, but yeah, one time they were vacuuming around me.

2:34:44 - Paris Martineau
I'm actually just being in the press room trying to file something at Davos and there's a guy doing a three-hour your worst nightmare doing gutenberg jokes.

2:34:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's just too much to bear. If you want to watch us, do it live. Uh, you can. We stream on youtube, youtubecom, slash twit. If you subscribe and ring the bell, you get a notification when we go live. We go live at the beginning of each show and we turn off the stream at the end of each show.

That makes sense, right? What you wouldn't want to watch what's going on in between, believe me, although if you're in the club you get to, so maybe I should. I should sell it a little bit better, uh, after the fact, on demand versions of the show available at twittv slash twig. You can also watch the youtube channel dedicated to the video from the show. Uh, which I think is called something like this week in google and, uh, easiest thing to do, subscribe and your favorite podcast client, because then you can watch it at your leisure, audio or video. Just search for Twig. We thank all of our Club Twig members so much for making this show possible. Thanks to our studio manager, jammer B Burke, mcquinn, repairman Extraordinaire, our producer and board op, benito Gonzalez. Thanks to all of you for joining us. We'll see you next time on this Week in Google. Bye-bye. 

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