Hands-On Photography Episode 134 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Ant Pruitt (00:00):
Today on Hands-On Photography, I am trying my best to stay cool in this here in Northern California heat. No, seriously. I am sitting down with a photographer. That's gonna talk about their very first paid gig as a photographer. I gotta tell you, this is an experience that shouldn't be overlooked. There's a lot of lessons that we can all learn as photographers and I, I'm looking forward to sitting down and talking with them and I'm looking forward to it. Inspiring you. As a Hands-On Photography listener. Y'all stay tuned. This episode of Hands-On Photography is brought to you by Nomad. Go to and use promo code TWIT for 10% off your first purchase of any nomad accessory. They have apple watch straps, wireless chargers, ultra durable cables, and more limited time offer.

Ant Pruitt (01:01):
Hey, what's going on everybody. I am Ant Pruitt, and this is Hands-On Photography. My beloved podcast here on TWI TV. Hope all y'all are doing well. Look here. I am unbelievable as always just sitting here on a fine excruciatingly excruciatingly hot day. <Laugh> here in Northern California. So if you see me sort of wipe my brow here and there do not be surprised. But yeah, this is the show where I like to sit down and share different tips and tricks that are gonna help make you a better photographer as well as a better post processor. And every now and then I get the opportunity to sit down with another photographer, professional photographer or even heck I've had a graphic design on here, graphic artist on here because it all sort of goes hand in hand and that's what we're going to do today.

Ant Pruitt (01:50):
I have a guest joining me, but before we bring my guest on, I want to welcome all of the folks that are brand new, checking out the show. Welcome to you. Thank you for popping in. Go ahead and subscribe right now, whatever podcast app you are using. I know some of you folks love that apple podcast. So just go ahead and subscribe in it, cuz all of y'all got iPhones anyway. So just go ahead and subscribe while you're there. And also while you're there, go ahead and leave a rating and a comment and says, you know what? This show is, so damn good. I'm gonna be back to listen next week. All of that stuff helps me out. So check us out there on apple podcast and Spotify, we even have a YouTube channel, but if you're trying to find all of the description options, just go to the website, V slash HOP Hands-On Photography.

Ant Pruitt (02:39):
And you'll also see all of the previous episodes and the show notes. Follow those episodes. Now with that outta the way, let me wipe sweat off my brow. One more time. And I'm going to introduce today's guest. Now this cat. Yes. I called him a cat because we go way back quite actually. My man, Mr. John Davis is someone I met him. Mm it's gotta be pushing close to a decade at this point. <Laugh> it's been several years, but back in the days, I used to run a smartphone photographers community on that platform known as Google plus and low and behold, you know, I was able to meet a bunch of different people. And John was in that group as well. He was a great community member and it was fun just watching everybody get into photography with their phones and work at getting better and see how people were getting better at this craft. And of course things sort of fade away. I ended up shutting down the community, but I stayed in touch with a handful of the folks. And Mr. John is one of those cats that I continued to stay in touch with. Cause he's just an all out. Good dude. I, I seriously say that in all sincerity. He's an all out. Good dude. So without me just babbling along. Let me go ahead and bring him on the screen. My man, Mr. John Davis, how you doing brother?

John Davis (03:57):
I'm doing good. How you doing today,

Ant Pruitt (03:59):
Man? I'm unbelievable. It is. So thatum good to see you. It's been a while. My man

John Davis (04:05):
<Laugh>. Yes, it has. It is very hot in the Midwest today.

Ant Pruitt (04:08):
<Laugh> and that's right. See you're up in like the Chicago area, right?

John Davis (04:12):
Yeah. I'm about an hour north of Chicago. Oh

Ant Pruitt (04:14):
Boy. And this always I

John Davis (04:16):
Out there. Yeah. I'm about a, I'm an hour between Chicago and in about 45 minutes south of Milwaukee. So I got like two big cities I can go to.

Ant Pruitt (04:25):
Oh man. I love Milwaukee. Oh, the cheese. Oh gosh. I love Milwaukee. Yes man. Well, my man look I'm I'm I reached out to you because we had been talking I guess it was a couple weeks back and you were saying, Hey, I got a gig coming up. And far as I know that that's probably your first paid photography gig, right?

John Davis (04:52):
Yeah. Besides getting paid by some friends. Yes.

Ant Pruitt (04:56):
All right. So I'm like really? And he was like, yeah. So I said, man, this, this, this is, this is good. I'm happy for you. That means things are getting, you know, you're getting some more recognition and, and people starting to notice your skills and just time to take that next step. And that's getting a client to say, Hey, I wanna trust you with my images. So let's, let's do this thing. Right. For real I'm I was so happy to see that. And I've been watching your photography, you know, because you've gone beyond just using your phone. You're also use a Canon R I believe, right? That's correct. Yeah. So you, you know, your tech and you know, your, your way around the good camera body, and a good lens. And it's just been nice to watch that, but now that you've been able to just get that extra recognition, tell me, tell me about your experience of, okay. This potential client saw my stuff and was like, huh, he might be the perfect fit for shooting my event. How did that all come about and tell us what this event was, if you don't mind.

John Davis (05:58):
A friend of mine from church, no knew somebody at this non non-profit called Chicago scholars. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so she asked if, if she could refer me and I was like, sure. So after about a week or so I get a text from a young lady there and we were going, we were texting back and forth. We talked a couple times on the phone Uhhuh and she was interested. And she wanted me to give her a number, so. Okay. And then that's when I kind of reached out to you to kinda, you know, I don't know where to start with the

Ant Pruitt (06:32):
Number. Wait a minute. That sounds funny. She wanted to give you a, give a number. What, what she, huh? The phone number, what? Oh, she's talking money.

John Davis (06:39):
Money, right.

Ant Pruitt (06:40):
Ah, okay. Okay. And so that's when you reached out to me.

John Davis (06:44):
Yeah. Well she, you know, she gave me all the particulars six hours, about 55 students, maybe one or two head shots. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> pretend pretending on what the price is. So when I gave her the price, she, she went back to her people a couple days later, she, she said, okay, let's do this.

Ant Pruitt (07:05):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> nice. Now we're not gonna get into the particulars of how much you, you build them or invoice them. But I do think it, it should be discussed because what you went through is something, all photographers go through when they're starting out, they know their work has value, but they're not quite sure what the value is of their work. And there's a lot of other variables that are involved. What was some of the things that, that popped into your head when it came down to trying to figure out what your rate should be?

John Davis (07:38):
I was thinking about the drive there. So it's an hour drive.

Ant Pruitt (07:42):
<Laugh> wait, hold up an hour drive. Do you know how much gas costs these days, dude? Hey,

John Davis (07:49):
Well, it's, it's an hour drive because in Chicago, Chicago traffic.

Ant Pruitt (07:52):
Oh, okay. All right. All right. So that's a little bit better.

John Davis (07:55):
<Laugh> yeah, if there's no traffic, it'd be about 30 minutes, but traffic, you gonna add another half an hour.

Ant Pruitt (08:01):
Oh wow. Good grief. Good grief. So you considered traffic. What else that popped in your head?

John Davis (08:08):
Six hours. So I was, I was booked for six hours, three hours on two different times. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> six hours. And then how many head shots and then all the equipment I need to bring mm-hmm <affirmative> so I had to figure that out as well.

Ant Pruitt (08:24):
Mm okay. So, and

John Davis (08:25):
Then some of the equipment I didn't have, so this gig is actually is gonna pay for some of the gig. Some of the stuff that I could use, ah, later

Ant Pruitt (08:34):
Shoots. Nice. Nice. So you, you pretty much, you that's a situation where I guess it ends up being a little bit of a loss on that particular gig, but it's an investment, right? So you you'll take that loss now because it's gonna make that next gig even easier because you already got the equipment or you don't have to worry about renting it. Right? Correct. So what was some of the equipment that, that came into place? You know, I know you have the, the Canon R, but what else did you have to get?

John Davis (09:06):
I needed a flash, which I've never used,

Ant Pruitt (09:09):
So that was fun. Oh boy.

John Davis (09:10):
Oh, that was fun. Learning that a trigger mm-hmm <affirmative> I was able to actually borrow the backdrop from one of my friends. He's a professional videographer. Okay. So he had a black backdrop and a white one and he gave me both when I picked it up. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so I had my choice. I pulled out the white one and wouldn't, I wouldn't fill in the white one. It looked a little dingy, so I just used a black one.

Ant Pruitt (09:35):

John Davis (09:36):
Yeah. I probably could have made it work now that I, that, that, that I know after the fact, I probably could have pulled that off, but I used the black one.

Ant Pruitt (09:44):
Well, it's nothing wrong with the black background. That's sort of a standard. It's usually like the standard is gray. That's the first thing, cuz the gray is always neutral. Okay. And then, then you get into the black and the white, you get into the black background for people that are wanting either a standard professional headshot, or they're wanting a low key shot because they want it black and they want all the shadows and stuff like that. For those of you that haven't seen the episode before, I've already spoken about low key photography on the show before Mr. Victor will show that right now on the screen. Thank you very much. But then you also have the white background that gets more into doing what they call high key photography, cuz you want that solid white background and the lighting is totally different. You see that in a lot of product shots, you see that in a lot of like fashion where it's makeup involved and things like that, you know, it's it's so those, those things, the black backdrop and the white backdrop is two different monsters if you will. But that, that middle gray. Yeah, that seems to be an easy standard to work with, especially when it's just, just getting started. But you jumped into the deep end of the pool and went with the black.

John Davis (10:56):
I jumped in very quickly, very quickly. <Laugh>

Ant Pruitt (11:01):
I love that. See where I'm from. We call that jumping in, jumping into fire with gasoline draws on. Oh

John Davis (11:07):
Yeah. Yes I did.

Ant Pruitt (11:09):
<Laugh> so you got your, you got your gear set up, you got your backdrop squared away. What was the actual shoot like when it came to dealing with the particular models as they came in to get their photos? Tell us a little about that.

John Davis (11:23):
Well well this company's a nonprofit nonprofit, so they help kids from different neighborhoods in Chicago. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> to, to get 'em into college and then to help 'em after college. That's

Ant Pruitt (11:37):
Awesome. So that,

John Davis (11:37):
So that kind of just trickled in as they were coming into the place mm-hmm <affirmative> so I have one here, then I might have a break for a little bit, then somebody else might walk in. So it wasn't really busy, busy. So I, I had time to look over the pictures after each, after each picture, just, just to see what I was doing and, and where I can change. And then I was also able to practice in between okay. I would put something on the table and try to light it up. Oh, okay. You know, to see how this looks. Oh, that's too dark. No, that's too bright. <Laugh> all right. So I gotta set it here. So,

Ant Pruitt (12:11):
So, so you were able to sit down and just sort of freely experiment in between sessions and, and just yes. Just sort of check, take a look at how the light was reacting because you, you just used the one flash, right?

John Davis (12:23):
Yep. And because it was in a small room, I just bounced it off the ceiling smart. They had windows to the left of me mm-hmm <affirmative> that were bringing in. So I had the lady close. Those. She was like, you really want those to you really wanna close those? Like yes I do. <Laugh> what,

Ant Pruitt (12:37):
What made you decide to do that?

John Davis (12:39):
I just felt like I wanted to control the, the light that was coming onto them. Right, right. So that's why I did that.

Ant Pruitt (12:46):
All right. That's what I would've said too. <Laugh> now. No, that's good stuff. So, alright. You got the models in they're coming in and they see you with the camera. They know that this man is here to take my photograph. What was it like, was there any kind of interaction? Did you have to direct anybody, you know, to get them to pose a certain way? Were they just sort of like zombies walking in or were they energetic? What, what was that like?

John Davis (13:12):
Some were zombies. Some were energetic. Some had a, a lot to say one girl actually said she tried to do her own head shots with her cousin and didn't work out. Yeah. So she was grateful that the nonprofit were doing these for their students.

Ant Pruitt (13:27):
Nice. Yeah. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. Cuz sometimes you you'll, you'll run into a lot of different personalities in the middle of a shoot and people react differently to the camera. Yeah. You know, some people will totally tighten up and just won't let go. And then you have some that are absolute hams <laugh> and you can't get them to move on and say, Hey, I got other people to shoot, you

John Davis (13:51):
Know? Yeah. I had a few that wanted to see 'em directly after like can we take another one? I don't like that one. So had a few of those. Yeah. I had some that didn't really wanna do 'em but you know, they, they wanted them to take 'em mm-hmm <affirmative> so they just came in, click, click, click, and they were out the door. They didn't care. <Laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (14:10):
Now how many, how many snaps do you think you averaged per person?

John Davis (14:17):
Well I didn't have my triggers or the flash set properly, so I was shooting too fast. Okay. So I was getting a good shot and then I get a dark shot, like, oh I, oh yeah.

Ant Pruitt (14:27):
Oh, because I gotta let it warm back on.

John Davis (14:30):
Yeah. The recycle time. Okay. Which I totally forgot about that. <Laugh> when I go back, I like, oh, could, could you go back? Could that second picture is dark. <Laugh>.

Ant Pruitt (14:40):
Hold on, hold, hold, hold on. Come back, go stand over there one more time, right? Oh gosh. Now when that happened, did, did, did they react oddly or were they just sort of no, not

John Davis (14:49):
At all.

Ant Pruitt (14:50):
Took it in stride.

John Davis (14:51):
Yeah. They just took it in stride. Oh, okay. You wanna take another one? Yeah. That's cool.

Ant Pruitt (14:54):
Oh nice.

John Davis (14:55):
Yeah, they were, they were, they had no complaints.

Ant Pruitt (14:58):
Oh man. That's crazy. <Laugh> but it happens like that. There's never, yeah. It's I don't know if there will ever be a perfect time on set. Things are just bound to happen. Where there be equipment failures or that be just some things that you're sort of learning on the fly. You know, for example, you, the, the, the space that you shot in, you knew you wanted to close that window. Did you have the opportunity to see the space before the shoot? You know, like

John Davis (15:25):
I did not on the

Ant Pruitt (15:26):
Same day. Just the day of is when you were here

John Davis (15:29):
The day of, they just walked me into this classroom. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (15:33):
Boy. That's that's tough. <Laugh> yeah. That's tough. Oh man. You know, for someone that doesn't have a lot of experience, that's, that's quite a bit to ask because you really gotta understand the way you like works. You gotta understand that exposure triangle and know what happens when you change that shutter speed or what happens when you change that aperture and so on and so forth. What were you saying?

John Davis (15:54):
Yeah. Oh, I was gonna say, cuz I had thought I, I had that thought of asking them what it was gonna look like, but I forgot to ask mm-hmm I forgot to actually do it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and then the lady that was communicating with me, she wa she wound up having to stay home cuz she got sick on vacation. So I was basically, I was basically just solo that day.

Ant Pruitt (16:15):
Oh man, this <laugh>, this is point is not in the room, man. This is just sounding like the Ooh

Ant Pruitt (16:23):
Boy, your, your patience in skill was definitely being tested. Now I, I do want to get into some of the images. You, you, you sent some images to me and said that we could show 'em on the show. Sure. I, I do want to get into that, but before I get into that, I want to take a few moments to thank this. Week's the fine folks at nomad nomad has been. They they've been around since about 2012. You know, they, they got together in Santa Barbara, California and started a Kickstarter project because they had a goal of building ultra rugged and minimalist tools for the 21st century that would seamlessly integrate into your everyday carry. Okay. So y'all know what everyday carry is, right? That's your, your, your, your watch and your phone and your wallet. You know, stuff you need everyday gum day.

Ant Pruitt (17:16):
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Ant Pruitt (18:19):
That's what I use them for nomad is offering AC adapters for the folks that aren't aren't on the apple devices and they have the 30 wat in the 65 wat G adapters. The crew at nomad was tired of dealing with those flimsy charging cables that seemed to just fall apart every couple months. So they set out to engineer some of the most rugged cables around. Now, these cables are reinforced with the double braided Keer outer sheath and a strong metal Allo connector housing, no nomad cables have been engineered to the extreme for durability and heavy everyday use. And there are also climate neutral certified nomad is, and always will be a company that prioritizes design and quality over everything else. One of the most important aspects nomad when designing new products is they use the highest quality and, and long lasting materials that are available to 'em.

Ant Pruitt (19:17):
So they design all of the concepts from the ground up rather than just white labeling something that already exists. Y'all know who those companies are. Again, I I've spoken about them before. My, my little wonderful niece, little weirdo y'all know who she is. She saw that I had a nomad apple watch apple watch strap for, and she absolutely loves it because it looks so cool and it feels good on her wrist. And she's always showing it off to her little smart Alki, teenage friends <laugh> cause that's what they do. Now. Look, y'all go to nomad and use promo code TWI for 10% off your first purchase of any nomad accessory that's nomad with the promo code twit. And this is a limited time offer. Thank you, nomad for your support of show and thank you all for checking out nomad. All right.

Ant Pruitt (20:17):
So I want to get the images up on the screen here. So what I'm gonna do is hit this button here and hopefully <laugh>, it's gonna switch over and show the images. We have the first one to pull up here in the group and it's this young man here. I'm not gonna look at all of 'em. We just wanna take a look at maybe two of them here, but I wanted to check this one out first and have you talk through this image and your experience with it. This is your standard looks like a, again, a professional business headshot, but let's let's talk through it.

John Davis (20:52):
All right. So this isn't my, the first person. So, so he was basically my test dummy and I told him that and he was cool with it. So I said you're gonna be in my test, dummy <laugh> as I get this flash going. And so we took about 10 or 15 shots and he was fine with that.

Ant Pruitt (21:07):

John Davis (21:07):
Yeah, that was playing with the flash.

Ant Pruitt (21:10):
So with doing this again, you were saying you were shooting with the flash bouncing off the ceiling? Yes. Okay. Did you have any kind of, did you have any other light modifiers at your disposal?

Ant Pruitt (21:22):
Like a soft box or anything?

John Davis (21:24):
I brought it, but I didn't use it.

Ant Pruitt (21:26):
Okay. Cause quite frankly, looking at this image, I don't think you needed a Mo because the lighting is soft on them. It, it, it, it looks good in my opinion.

John Davis (21:37):
Yeah. So my only mistake after I got through a few people, and then I was able to reach out to you during a couple intermissions is I had 'em too close to the backdrop. So because of that, the backdrop didn't look dark. It looked gray mm-hmm <affirmative> so mm-hmm <affirmative> I had to do a lot of work in post-processing <laugh> for, for sure. The, the surface, the surface pin was my friend.

Ant Pruitt (22:01):
Oh, so you painted in the, the black background?

John Davis (22:03):
I did.

Ant Pruitt (22:04):
Oh, nice. <Laugh>

John Davis (22:05):
Yeah. Cause I tried to go, I was trying to go as black as I could, but then it was, it didn't didn't look right. So I, I didn't force it and then I just went back and then I just did the color in,

Ant Pruitt (22:18):
Okay. Now I'm going to offer some feedback. Do you want some feedback from me on this one?

John Davis (22:23):
Oh, I have no problem with

Ant Pruitt (22:24):
That. All right. So looking at this, we have the black background and if we can see with my mouse here, we have dark hair. So if, if you were to look at this, his head just sort of disappears right there because of the black background. So what you may have wanted to consider is, yeah, you want that black, that black background, but you don't want it D black to where he just sort of blends in. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like, for example, here, let's just switch to my actual screen here. Okay. So right now I'm, I'm sitting in front of a black backdrop right there, but I make this one change. All right. And that's basically, I had a light that's hidden the back of my head, a REM light, a hair light, because with that light, that light off, you see my face and my head just sort of blends in back there and I just sort of disappear.

Ant Pruitt (23:24):
But having that additional light whoop, not that one, <laugh> having that additional light. It separates me from the back, you know? So it, it doesn't look like I'm pressed into the wall, pressed into the backdrop, similar to how he sort of looks pressed in there. But if that black wasn't as dark, maybe it would maybe would work a little bit better. But that's the first thing that I saw. But you had already addressed the fact that, you know what, man, I had him way too close to this wall anyway. Right? Yes. Right. But I, I, I love what you did with the, with the bounce again, because the light is really, really soft on his face and it's flattering to him. It's not giving him these weird raccoon, shadows or anything like that. So I, I give you your props on that one, man. Thank you. Thank you. Good stuff. Good stuff. And then there's this other image down here that I wanted to address and just get your thoughts and that is this one. Let me hear your thoughts on

John Davis (24:24):
He was very happy. So <laugh>. Yeah. So he,

Ant Pruitt (24:28):
I wonder why

John Davis (24:30):
<Laugh>, so this was the guy that, that he was really into his picture. Like I, after I took the, the couple of them, he wanted to check him out. He's like, oh no, I wanna take some more <laugh> and then, and then he picked the ones he wanted mm-hmm <affirmative> he was the, he was the only one that picked his own pictures. Everybody else is like, okay, thanks for taking the pictures. <Laugh> this guy was into it. He wanted, he wanted what he wanted.

Ant Pruitt (24:54):
Now. How did that make you feel at that time?

John Davis (24:57):
I mean, I was fine with that. I mean, he, he, he wanted to look a certain way, as you can tell mm-hmm <affirmative> it looks like he takes care of himself and he likes his, his, his his dress. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (25:09):
He looks sharp. He, he looks good. He looks sharp. There is something that, that stands out in this shot versus your first one, because he's clearly stepped away from the background. I could tell.

John Davis (25:23):
Yes. You know, and because yeah. And because of that, it was more easier to do the background. <Laugh>

Ant Pruitt (25:28):

John Davis (25:29):
It was so much easier. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Ant Pruitt (25:31):
Yeah. He's clearly stepped away. Cuz you could see that there's a little bit of just a little bit of light that got bounced down as it wrapped around his face to his shoulder. And then this, his left shoulder here, which is sort of angled forward is clearly catching the light. So he, this is, I think that's a much better job there. But just don't make it too black in the background to where they blend in. But this is, this is, this looks really good, man. Good pose. This, this, this man's energy is just like, I'm proud. Look at me. You snap this camera dad coming. I look good. You know, <laugh>

John Davis (26:09):
Right. He was making sure he, he look good. <Laugh>

Ant Pruitt (26:12):
This is outstanding. Outstanding. But yeah, this I I'm, I'm so happy for you brother. This, this is, these images look really, really good here. You know, this one looks good. Just great pose. The lighting is good. The little, see how his hair's lit up right there. He's not blending into it. Just oh, just good stuff, man. I'm so happy for

John Davis (26:36):
You. Yeah. And his hair was really dark, so I, I really, I put a little extra shadow on his.

Ant Pruitt (26:43):
Oh, I got

John Davis (26:44):
To bring it wouldn't. Yeah. Right.

Ant Pruitt (26:46):
Gotcha. Gotcha.

John Davis (26:47):
Yeah. So the, this, the guy with the, with the green and black mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. This here. Yeah. It didn't come out that great. As you can see his hair was, he was too close

Ant Pruitt (26:59):
As well. Yep. See, he blended in.

John Davis (27:01):
Yeah. And you can see the backdrop mm-hmm

Ant Pruitt (27:03):
<Affirmative> he blended in. He blended in good pose. Yep. But he blended in, but that's the thing. This has been a good learning experience for you, right?

John Davis (27:16):
<Laugh> oh, yes. And I'll be ready when that, when I come back again, <laugh>

Ant Pruitt (27:21):
That's what we want to hear. That's what we

John Davis (27:23):
Hear. Yeah. So they were happy though. And they booked me for the next session. So I'm gonna take the rest of the pictures and the July 22nd, I believe. So.

Ant Pruitt (27:33):
So you got rebooked?

John Davis (27:35):
Well, it was supposed to be two sessions. Okay.

Ant Pruitt (27:38):

John Davis (27:38):
Right. When I sent those, I was worried. Cause I didn't hear 'em for a couple of days Uhhuh <affirmative> I was like, oh, did I do a terrible job? And she came back. Oh, we loved them. <Laugh> so yeah. We want you to come back. Oh,

Ant Pruitt (27:51):
Good. Good, good, good.

John Davis (27:53):
Yeah. So I heard from her last week and she gave me three dates. Okay. So

Ant Pruitt (27:58):
Now with that said it's a good thing that you they're happy you're you're, you're happy, but you're not satisfied. And I re I totally respect that. That's, that's a good mindset to have. But with all of that said, what are your thoughts on this? Do you have any like lesson learned type of things you know, is this something that you, that you picked up from this session that you're going to take to your next session?

John Davis (28:23):
Oh, definitely. I'll definitely have 'em farther away from the background. I still need to practice more with the flash Uhhuh. <Affirmative> that? That's my first time. So <laugh>, I need to do some more practice with

Ant Pruitt (28:36):
That, right.

Ant Pruitt (28:37):
Well, I have, I have a tutorial about using that flash. I'm sure you know that by now <laugh> yes, I do. Now from a business standpoint any lessons learned there? Is it things that you considered for the next gig? Not necessarily the session with this client, but the next potential client, what are some of the things that are sticking out in your head that you you're saying? You know what I need to make sure I address this. I address that. And you know, is there documentation, contracts, things like that that you have to consider?

John Davis (29:13):
Most definitely. Yeah. Cause would this be my first professional shoot? Basically I had to learn, you know, about the contract, you know, writing up a nice contract, which I did and they accepted it knowing what gear to bring, which thank thanks to you. That was a big help. And you know I probably would like to know the venue next time. Yeah. So I can know. So I know what to bring. Yeah. I said it, cause I might have not have brought everything that I, that I brought. Cause I didn't need everything that I brought. Right. That was a lot of stuff I

Ant Pruitt (29:49):
Brought <laugh> right, right. Yeah. That's the thing. And this is some of the lessons that I learned over the years of first is all right, establish, get yourself established, what you've already done. They, they were somebody recognized your work. So you're, you're doing something right there. And then after you get that agreement to say, Hey, I, I would love to work with you. Get something in writing on a contract, you know, let the expectations be for lack of better terms in black and white. You know what I'm saying? Because mm-hmm, <affirmative> that contract is gonna save you a lot of headache <laugh> in, in the end because I, I promise you brother, not all clients are as smooth as this client. <Laugh> they're, they're just not, they're just not so no,

John Davis (30:35):
It's not, it's not over yet. So we'll

Ant Pruitt (30:36):
See. All right. So when I, when I spoke with you, I, I said, Hey, so what's your contract. Say, <laugh> let them know what you're going to do. So everybody knows what the final expectations are, you know? And, and a lot of people get, get a little discouraged when they hear the term contract. Far as through the beginning photographer, they get a little discouraged far as contract, but it, it, it doesn't have to be a bunch of Le legal jargon. It it's just gotta be straightforward. This is who I am. This is what I'm gonna provide. And this is when I'm gonna provide it. And this is how much it's gonna cost. Do you agree? Or you disagree, if you can start with just keeping it as simple as that it's gonna help you in the long run and then down the road. Yeah, sure.

Ant Pruitt (31:22):
You can get into, you know, you know, talking about revisions and things like that, or talking about additional billing and, and things like that, because sometimes you'll have that, that shoot like you did, and end up getting called to do some additional shoots outside of the session, you know? Oh, so, and so wasn't able to show up, can you come back out? Sure. I can come back out, but I gotta charge you for that. You know? And that's the kind of things that you can sort of put in is like little riders, if you will, on the contract, but that's for later on down the road. And then the next thing is just understanding what to charge for your images. When you're starting out, I tell people don't expect to get rich on that first gig. You just, right. That's just wrong.

Ant Pruitt (32:10):
You're not that good. It's your first gig. You haven't earned the right to really get rich on your very first gig. You haven't earned the right to get rich on your first 10 gigs. In my, in my opinion, you still got a lot to do. So understand that, you know, you can't go out there and, and put a price tag on there that someone like Peter Hurley <laugh> or Rick salmon is putting on the invoice, you know right. Cause your prices are going to change as your experience changes. I've had negotiations with, with potential clients that end up being clients where I send them their ES, I send them their estimate and it has a number on there that they just sort of woo. You know, they, they, they freak out a little bit and they want to come back and tell me, Hey, that that's too much.

Ant Pruitt (32:59):
And my justification is, well, it costs that much because I've spent X amount of hours and years being able to get to the point to where I can provide you that service in the amount of time with the amount of quality that, that I'm gonna promise you. So I, I'm not gonna give you a lot of wiggle room on that, but again, I've been doing this for a while. I don't expect you to do that on your first gig, you, right, right. So I, I, I hope people will, you know, just, just sort of own up to the fact that yes, there, there art has value, but you still need to do a little bit of a crawl before you walk <laugh>.

John Davis (33:40):
That is correct.

Ant Pruitt (33:42):
<Laugh> so Mr. John, this has been fun. Is there anything you'd like to share with the hands on photography community? Like where can we find your work online and some of your other musings and things like that?

John Davis (33:56):
Sure. I mean, I do have an Instagram account. It's J w D visuals, J WD visuals. I don't have a website at the moment cuz I didn't, I wasn't at that point where I thought I needed one, but I will be working on one

Ant Pruitt (34:11):

John Davis (34:12):
So I can build so I can build my portfolio.

Ant Pruitt (34:14):
That's right. That's right. Well, I'll go ahead and say this they're they are a sponsor of the TWI network and that's So if you need a domain, go to, please. And thank you. But anyway, brother, Hey, thanks so much for joining me. I am so glad to have you on and be able to share your experience because I've been getting some questions about people wanting to start the business of photography. You know, I did an episode, was it last week or week before? I don't remember. Just think it was episode 1 32 where I talked about selling your photos as prints,

John Davis (34:54):
You know? Yeah, yeah. I haven't watched it yet, but I, I did. I did see that

Ant Pruitt (34:58):
That's that's like one of the easiest things to do as a photographer is just, it just, just shoot your stuff and put it out there available as prints. And if people wanna buy 'em they'll buy 'em if they don't, that's fine. They're still out there. You, you have some options. And then when you're ready to dive more into bigger projects, then let's go ahead and start talking about the process of, of getting people interested in your work and sitting down and, and chatting with them and going through the details of the gig and, and start setting the price and start shooting and start sending those invoices and getting those invoices coming back with no amount, dude, just beautiful, beautiful stuff. <Laugh> I think we can all do it. It's just gonna take some work, right? Correct. <laugh> all right, brother. This again, thank you so much for joining me.

Ant Pruitt (35:45):
I, I, I, I hope to have you back on here in the future, let me know about about, Hey, these are the things I've learned and this is what I've done. You know, maybe like a year later we spoke with John and this is what he was doing last year and now he's got this and oh my gosh. He's just blowing up. I, I hope we can do that in the future. Oh, definitely. Definitely. <laugh> all right, brother. I appreciate your time. Good, good thing in stay cool. Yeah. Turn your AC now. No, not even gonna happen. Not even gonna happen. All right, folks that is gonna do it for this week's episode. My man, John was just, just outstanding. I really do appreciate him hanging out with me today and sharing a story. I hope it inspires you all to, to, you know, to get out there and take that chance and you know, it's your, your art, it's your work, you know there's value in it.

Ant Pruitt (36:38):
Everybody's art has some value in it, so yeah, just let's let's get out here and, and start this little bit of entrepreneurship. If you will, if you have any questions, comments, feedback, feel free to shoot an email to the show. That's hop again, that's hop twit TV. I love hearing from you folks. I get quite a few messages from me and it's just great. It really is. And if you have some images that you want me to critique I'm, I'm more than happy to critique your images and, and give you some pointers here and there if you want 'em. If you're cool with your images being shared on the show, make sure you mention that in the email. Okay. Because I don't wanna share these things out without your permission. And but yeah, just keep sending them, sending 'em on, in

Ant Pruitt (37:28):
I still haven't figured out a photography challenge for us just yet. I need to think on it some more, but it's coming. Just, just stick around. We'll we'll get to that. Eventually. I wanna send a shout out to my man, Mr. Victor for making me look and sound good each and every week. And brother, you were just unbelievable. <Laugh> on the edit job with the animation episode episode 1 33. Thank you so much. My man <laugh> Hey folks, do me one more favor. First. Follow me on social media, head on over the Instagram right now and follow ant. Underscore Pruitt, just search for ant Pruitt. You'll see my bald head face on there. And then I'm the only one. At least I hope I'm the only one. Give me a follow tag. Me and some of your favorite images that you've shot. I love hearing from you over on the social media platform as well. And also go ahead and share the show out with other folks that are, you know, curious about photography. So share it out with all of your friends and share it out with at least one enemy. If you don't mind. All right, that's gonna do it for this week's show. Thank you all so much. When we will see you all next time. So safely create it. Dominate y'all take care.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
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