All About Android 577, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Jason Howell (00:00:00):
Coming up on All About Android. It's me, Jason Howell, my co-host Huyen Tue Dao and our guest Duncan Jaffery from ausdroid.net. This is our episode where we give you some of our predictions for what we expect to see at Google IO. That's right. Google IO starts tomorrow at the time of this recording. Anyways. also we talk a little bit about passkey a little bit more about Passkey because it's materializing, it's becoming a much bigger effort and more official. The Sharp Aquos R7 is a smartphone with a honkin' huge camera on it. Motorola might have a rollable in the works. Talk a little bit about that and Google IO pinball. You're not gonna miss out on your opportunity to play that, cuz it's a lot of fun. Plus your email and a whole lot more next on All About Android

Speaker 2 (00:00:47):
Podcasts. You love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Jason Howell (00:00:54):
This episode of All About Android is brought to you by ITProTV. ITProTV has everything you need to level up your IT skills while you enjoy the journey, visit itpro.tv/all about Android for an additional 30% off all consumer subscriptions for the lifetime of your active subscription. When you use code AAA30 at checkout. Hello and welcome to All About Android. This is episode 577 recorded on Tuesday, May 10th, 2022. Your weekly source for latest news, hardware and apps for the Android Faithful. I'm Jason, Howell.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:01:29):
And I'm Huyen Tue Dao

Jason Howell (00:01:30):
Huyen I love your backdrop it's there's like, it looks so good.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:01:36):
<Laugh> there's all that effort I spend at my house to get my set up in my lighting and look at this lighting in this backdrop, in this hotel room. I know

Jason Howell (00:01:47):
Hotel room, cuz you are in the bay area here for Google IO, right? I am. And, and our plan. So just to, just to peel back the curtain, some of you are watching, some of you are listening, so you can't see anything. So you aren't clued into certain things. So, well you know what? Before we get into this, we, we need to bring in our guests, cuz that would be rude, not to our guest today. Duncan Jaffrey ausdroid.net, all around awesome guy. We love to bring you on, especially around moments like this when there's lots of announcements that are coming up or have already happened from Google. It's good to have you back Duncan.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:02:19):
Thanks Jason. Thanks for having me. It's always great to be on.

Jason Howell (00:02:22):
Absolutely. All right. I didn't wanna like leave you out, you know, not having been introduced into the show that would, that would be rude. So I'm happy to have you here, as you can see, Ron is not here. Ron is out. He's not feeling under the weather, so he's not here. If you're listening and not watching, then you can't tell that I'm not calling. I'm not, I'm not at the studio, right? You probably can hear the difference. We were originally gonna have Huyen come into the studio and her and I were gonna be in person. Ron was gonna be on zoom and it was gonna be a big celebration, like yay Huyen's in the studio. But last Friday I got a positive COVID test. And so <laugh>, so I'm actually calling in from my little COVID cave, which is essentially my younger daughter's bedroom. And so if you aren't watching the video stream, definitely check it out just to see my awesome podcast studio for the week. This is where I'm coming at. You live all week long is from this room. And then Huyen, unfortunately that means you're not in the studio cause they wanted to be really careful, you know, abundance of caution and all that. So you're, you're calling in from your hotel room in the bay area. And like we were saying, it looks really good. <Laugh>

Huyen Tue Dao (00:03:33):
Yeah. I might just have to steal this. Like I, and I, I borrowed the mic and apparently I sound better on this mic. So I'm just gonna just steal all the sudden, we back home to Colorado with me, which means I'll probably have to check a bag, but yeah, no, this is probably the most interesting background I could ever hope to have and brilliant like natural lighting. So I

Jason Howell (00:03:48):
Know. Yeah. Brilliant. For as long as that natural lighting is there we'll, we'll find out in like that's an hour in, in 15 minutes, how it looks <laugh>

Huyen Tue Dao (00:03:59):
Be ducking off like turning on the lights. Sorry.

Jason Howell (00:04:01):
Yeah. Anyway,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:04:01):
That happens, but

Jason Howell (00:04:02):
That's okay. I

Duncan Jaffrey (00:04:03):
Think we should thank your daughter, Jason.

Jason Howell (00:04:05):
What's that we

Duncan Jaffrey (00:04:06):
Should, we should thank your daughter for giving up her bedroom for the good of TWIT

Jason Howell (00:04:10):
The week. Absolutely. Yes. I have to say, you know, like, like I said, tested positive on Friday, Friday and Saturday felt pretty awful. And it was just me and my older daughter and you know, my older daughter's bedroom is just down the hallway. And so I had this room, she had that room then on Sunday, my younger daughter tested positive. So then she joined the crew. So then it's her and I shacked up in this room basically. <Laugh> and you know, we're always kind of going back and forth between the two bedrooms and everything and yeah, you know, it's, it's been a pretty cozy cave to hide out in and, and recover and watch, you know, lots of stuff on, on TV and read a little bit and, and now produce shows. So thank you to my daughters for giving me the space to do it.

Jason Howell (00:04:54):
The, the setup is pretty humorous though. I have to say I'm I'm you wouldn't know it in the camera, but I'm literally podcasting from the closet. Like on the other side of this camera is a closet with a dresser. The dresser is the drawer that my laptop is sitting on. Check out my Twitter feed @JasonHowell you can see a, a photo of what the setup actually looks like. That's the beauty of podcasting. It doesn't matter what it looks like behind the camera, just as long as the front of the camera looks good. And that's exactly what we got here in all scenarios. So anywho, it's really great to have you Duncan, especially on this episode, we've had you on, I think usually when we have you on around Google IO, it's usually like after the fact, and we've got like devices to show off and everything. So I don't know if we've had you on, on the pre IO episode to kind of do some prediction stuff, but that's what we're gonna be doing today. So thank you for covering out time in the early morning where you're at. Or how early is it for you right now?

Duncan Jaffrey (00:05:49):
No, it's a, it's a lovely 10:35 in the morning for

Jason Howell (00:05:52):
Me. Oh, that's not early.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:05:54):
Google IO will be a different story. That's more three o'clock, but some things are worth it. Yeah. <Laugh> I think my normal beats are MWC in the October Pixel event. So I'm looking for, there you go.

Jason Howell (00:06:06):
There you go. There you go. All right. Well then why don't we cut to the chase then? Why don't we get into some news and start talking, Google IO let's do this.

Burke (00:06:20):
So I was thinking about doing this bit, that this guy on Twitter was suggesting to me, but I think I'm gonna back out and just go halfway.

Jason Howell (00:06:29):
<Laugh> what your, you can't go halfway on a bit. Yeah. Your news drop is so meta. It's like, it's like I I'm waiting for the punchline and the punchline. Is that okay? It'll be this way. Is the waiting

Burke (00:06:41):
Well, it's kind of still,

Jason Howell (00:06:43):
Hmm. A work of progress. I like is that obvious? I like, I like your style Burke<laugh> I like that. It's not obvious. That's the thing. All right. So it's IO preview time's exactly what Are we even talking about anymore. I don't even know. I don't understand. Right? Sorry. <Laugh> Google IO is I guess officially starts tomorrow, right? Today's Tuesday, May 10th kicks off tomorrow. May 11th, 10:00 AM Pacific. So if you're watching live, do know that we are gonna be doing live coverage. Me, Leo, me from this room, Leo and Jeff Jarvis are gonna be doing live coverage of the keynote tomorrow morning, 10:00 AM Pacific 1:00 PM Eastern on May 11th. So we're gonna I'm sure learn a lot of really great stuff tomorrow. Google's been doing a little bit of a preview leading up to tomorrow's event, the kickoff of tomorrow's event on social media. They teased out on Twitter that iO's gonna have security updates, gonna have messaging updates, cross device updates.

Jason Howell (00:07:44):
And then they say new partnerships. I mean, obviously those are pretty wide open, you know, blanket kind of summaries of what to expect, not a whole lot of you know, detail to, to glean from, from that because it literally could be anything. But I thought, you know, we're, we're ahead of the show and we're all excited about it for different reasons. Some of us AKA Huyen are actually going to be there for the event. Some of us are watching from afar, but what are some of the things that y'all are most excited about, like of the, of the news of the leaks that we know or anything like that? Is there something that, that really has you excited that you're anticipating to see tomorrow and Duncan will start with you?

Duncan Jaffrey (00:08:29):
I'm well known on the show for being a Android wear tragic. So I love a watch

Jason Howell (00:08:35):
<Laugh>

Duncan Jaffrey (00:08:36):
I

Jason Howell (00:08:36):
Have stuck is the watch for

Duncan Jaffrey (00:08:38):
This is the Tic Pro 3. The, so from Movi find it the best you can get at the moment with WearOS that doesn't lock you sort of more in that Samsung side. So I had the original Moto and I've bought, I've bought and worn every generation of watch. And every generation of watch, I said to my friends, it's almost ready. It's almost ready. <Laugh> last, last year at IO, they announced the, the, the merging of Tizen and Wear OS and I thought it might be ready and we've had a whole year waiting for some hardware and as good as the Samsung Galaxy watch is it's not that pure Android experience that I prefer. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so whilst I've taught myself to never hope for released hardware at IO, the rumors seem strong enough that we should at least be seeing some discussed WearOS hardware many, many, many years into Google's journey into their own OS. So it's nice. They, Might finally put some skin in the game. So that's my number one. Excitement.

Jason Howell (00:09:37):
Yeah. And I mean, the leaks have been very compelling. I mean, it looks like a really nice kind of premium device based on a number of the leaks, you know, the, the, the device that was left in the restaurant, I think it was, yeah. Not too long ago and everything, it, it seems primed that we're probably gonna hear something about definitely about WearOS probably about what, what Google is doing with the Pixel watch side of things. So we're gonna get some WearOS, hopefully we're gonna get a Pixel watch. Hopefully we're gonna get the, the Pixel 6a, because that seems also like ripe for ripe time for it. We have in the past had an, a series announced and shown off at Google IO. Although it's not an, it's not a given, it doesn't happen every year. But I'm, I'm certainly looking forward to that. Cuz the a series has been a pretty successful series for Google as far as their hardware is concerned. I, I think the premium phones get a lot of like the tech press, you know, ourselves included, but the a series is the one that, that probably sells more devices all things considered. And so that's something to, you know, be looking out for and, and to get excited about. We'll certainly find out about that. What about you Huyen what what's something that you're looking forward to?

Huyen Tue Dao (00:10:51):
Yeah. So I think that we tend to actually get pretty excited around the developer keynote. I mean, I, I think the key, the, the main kind of headlining keynote, which Sundar Pichai, you know, leads is always like the, the kind of for everyone keynote where you have consumer stuff. Right. But I think we're generally very excited for the follower up developer keynote, cuz that's kind of where the things that kind of make our experiences, not just as users, but developers sing. And a lot of it is around, you know, tooling and you know, things like compose, which is the brand new Android UI toolkit, which most people I'd say unabashedly love myself included. So kind of seeing what's new with that. I'm actually really looking forward to seeing like always, always a chilling. I, I think what's really fun is that the tools team for the end, like the tools team on the Android team always works really hard to keep us happy.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:11:37):
We're very grumpy bunch when it comes to like, you know, anything from like how we build, like what we build with and how fast it builds. Like those three things are pretty important. And so I think the Android tools team always has really crowd pleasing stuff. Like I, I, I think it's, it's pretty easy to say that for developers, a developer usually has one or two really fun things, whether that's just the ability to say I don't know, build like build UI easier, being able to visualize things easier, being able to debug things easier, being able to build faster. If you're curious, if you ever ask like an Android dev, like what their number one gripe about building for Android is the good chances are it's about build speed, which is basically when we hit build a thing and we actually get the APK at the end that you can saw on a user phone.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:12:21):
That's kind of been historically the number one pain point. And so usually the Android team has something that help that tries to kind of mitigate these kind of things. So this is kind of stuff that we're looking forward to kind of things that make us or that help us rather build things for y'all better and faster. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to any composed stuff and I'm always looking to see what the Android studio, the Android tools team have because there's, there's always gonna be crowd booking stuff. And I am really curious, actually we talked about this last week about the predictive back and I talked with my husband, who's also Android dev about this and we were still speculating on what it could be. And I think as a consumer, this is kind of leaking into my consumer side is like lately, you know, I, I think it was a joke like three or four years ago that they were putting machine learning on everything mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I, I'm kind of curious to see whether predictive the, the predictive back button will be actually kind of one of those things that is an interesting machine learning application because a lot of the times like things like machine learning, they're really great and they, but they tend to be kind of on very Google centric, consumer things like duplex and, and like Google assistant, but it would really be cool to actually have a machine learning based tool that isn't, you know, you developing a machine learning model and sticking it in your app, it'd be something that is genuinely beneficial to us and might help us like make the navigation experience on your phones either.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:13:35):
So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely more like dev heavy, but I'm also all the stuff that y'all are excited about. I am too, but yeah. A little faster

Jason Howell (00:13:43):
<Laugh> yeah, I think, I think from that, from that perspective, that's one of the, the great things about having you on the show because we, we end up getting so firmly locked into the, what is the thi you know, what is the thing? What is the hardware, what is the consumery kind of announcement that Google's gonna make at IO? And again, I, I feel like year after year, we, we, you know, recognize that we're doing that and we go, well, wait a minute, this is a developer conference at the end of the day. That's exactly why it exists. It's for developers to get the information that they need about what, where Google's attention is so that they can make better apps. They can make better experiences that tie into Google's technologies. And it's easy for, for me to get lost in the, the consumer side of things and forget that, oh, wait a minute, Google IO is, is 90% of, of all developer stuff. And it's like that 10% of like, oh, and by the way, we're releasing a new phone, it's called the Pixel six a and you know, here you, here you go text, press, you know, go, go crazy over it, review it and everything like that. But for everyone else, AKA you and all the other developers who are going there for its intended purposes, it has a whole lot of other kind of shining stars that are, that are attractive about it.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:14:55):
Yeah. I will say that Duncan, thank you so much for saying that you love stock Android because I, I know like part of being an Android dev is accepting that Samsung's great hardware, but not so great software is part of why, like why I still have a job today. So it's hard to kind of, you know, fault them too much for that. But I always love hearing folks that love stock Android because I do. And it makes my life easier when I can just build for stock Android, as opposed to dealing with why Samsung does Samsung or other insert other OEM here does 50,000 things weird. So that always makes me happy to hear.

Jason Howell (00:15:30):
Yeah. Oh, you're muted. You're muted.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:15:32):
It's certainly cleaner. I love to embrace the fact that Android does give you the options and that's why I celebrate the platform over more lockdown ones. But my personal tastes do run that more vanilla. I, I really enjoy the, the stock experience and I, I have have a way of setting up phones now that's quite easy and third party launches and everything, but it replicates that really stock clean feel. And you know, I often slowly move with the times as Google evolves on your point, when about looking at how machine learning can be easier put in for the devs, it just made me me wonder Google does love to do things with that APIs. And so what might they expose there? And then in this day and age, what security concerns will that bring forward and how does the relationship with community trust of Google extend through to use of platforms like that? Cause I, I, I would agree that I would love to see more machine learning and artificial general intelligence coming into these apps, but in this privacy centric world sometimes, which I think could be slightly overblown it, it raises a new point. You can't talk to a PR agency now without them mentioning 92 ways, how their privacy focused. Do you, do you feel anything in that space?

Huyen Tue Dao (00:16:50):
Oh yeah. All the time. I mean, even from like, you know what, I work for Atlassian actually, and you know, I I've mentioned this before, but, you know, especially as being a company where our products are everywhere, we've had to deal with like very concrete concerns like GDPR and being able to worry about privacy and data retention and data erasure for, for users. And I think it's just put us in a habit of being hyper aware of these things and making sure that we're not doing things with, you know, people's what was it publicly, personally identifying in information and even things like just being hyperaware of like a lot of the other things that we've talked about, talked about like the Android 12 and 13 enhancements that let persons let beers know when something is being recorded, when something is on when your location, when you're O when your mic, when your anything is on.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:17:40):
And we become very hyper aware of it. And I think in general, it's not a bad thing for devs to be more aware of these things. Just, just everything that you do with the, with the user's data might have impacts. So I kind of just take it as like table stakes now, just to be hyper aware of it, whether I maybe in some cases it's like, maybe we, I don't wanna say we worry too much, but it, it can make dev life a little more difficult. It can make making smooth experiences a little bit difficult when you have to obfuscate data or make sure that you're not giving persons access to data. They're supposed to have, it makes our data data life harder, but again, like asking for permissions and things like that are kind of a cost of doing business with I'm okay with, I, I might not like it in the moment at like 5:00 PM when I just wanna get off work and I've got some kind of permissions bug and I have to fix it like today.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:18:31):
I might not like it as much then, but yeah, I, I think it's just, it makes sense. And kind of hearing all the stress of the people that, you know, are kind of my stakeholders at work, kind of worrying about how to match, you know, and, and make sure that they conform to all these, you know, laws and regulations sentiment and all that to the sentiment. Yeah. And like, even like just the average user's awareness is, is wider now. So we have to respect that. So I, I kind of just go with it now. I, I kind of feel like more privacy and security in general is a good thing. The specifics of, of use cases can get kind of complex and <laugh>, and hard to, hard to handle on a day to day basis. So I'm not surprised when more things come up.

Jason Howell (00:19:13):
Yeah. Yeah, indeed. I'm sure we're gonna hear a lot about security and privacy and everything. I mean, Google, like you said, table stakes, not, not a horrible thing for that to be table stakes, right. Like, because at least, at least that shows that it's gotten to a point to where it's. So it's like that awareness is so ubiquitous at this point. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> that it's important enough that everybody feels, or at least maybe we tell ourselves that everybody feels like it's at least important enough to really focus on to some degree. So that's a good thing. I'm sure Google will talk about it. I feel like it cut you off though. Duncan, what would you say?

Duncan Jaffrey (00:19:50):
I was gonna say, I, I agree that it's table stakes. Sometimes the discussion of privacy feels like Facebook apologizing. It's just something that they do. And then just, and I'm not specifically talking to Google there just in general, I'd like to see some real action. Some of them are the lines of Tim burners. Lee's solid project that he was doing with MIT. I think it was with creating these data privacy pods, where users house and control their own privacy data and then allow access you know, to that rather than the app based centralized approach we seem to have. But this isn't the the Tim beers, Lee security show, I guess it's Google IO.

Jason Howell (00:20:30):
<Laugh> that's all right. I mean, Hey, we've actually got a story coming up next in, in the rundown that touches on at least partially exactly what you're talking about Duncan. So that's, that's fair game real quick before we move on, though, just some other things actually flow Akimoto wrote up kind of what she felt were things to look forward to, to expect and stuff. Some of the other things that she put in there, the nest hub tablet as a, as a consumer product that we know keeps bubbling up. So we might see something about that. Obviously, a whole lot of informa more information about Android 13, which I have been running the beta on my daily driver as, as you know, wiped my phone when I, when I transitioned over to it. And I'm, I, I moved beyond that. I'm I'm, it's all good.

Jason Howell (00:21:15):
But one thing that I've noticed is that Android 13 does more in, in the realm of asking permission to do things the first time you run an app. So it's like, so I, I had the experience of, of installing all of my apps from the start and setting them up individually on Android 13 beta one. And there's a lot of running this app. Oh, for the first time wants to use the camera. Do you want to allow, that wants to use location? Do you want to allow that getting those popups and I just gotta say real quick, you know, attached to kind of what you were saying when when that happens, like, and, and it happened on a lot of apps. It didn't bug me at all. Like it it's implemented really well in Anne Android 13. So I think they're on to something they're going down a direction that I think is pro user giving users more clarity, more control over those things.

Jason Howell (00:22:09):
And some people might see that as being kind of like bothered, like, Ugh, God, I gotta, I gotta go say okay to each and every thing here, but I mean, I haven't been bothered by it at all. I I've actually thought it's done pretty elegantly. And it makes a lot of sense. Like at least now I have a better understanding of what's going on in a lot of these apps when it's asking for my location or whatever. So yeah. And that's just one, one aspect and avenue of Android 13 that I'm sure Google will talk about you know, kind of opening, opening the, the door for, for other aspects of Android 13. Now, hopefully we don't know what they are yet. You know, hopefully Google gives some more insight into that.

Jason Howell (00:22:50):
And then, eh, that's about it. The only other thing that I did wanna mention was the Pixel buds pro, which this has not been on my radar at all, but now there's like these rumors, John Proser tweeted G Google Pixel Budds pro coming soon Michelle Ramon speculates that they could support spatial audio Bluetooth audio just based on the fact that Google has been supporting those, those formats recently also, and a flow mentioned that that's something that we could possibly see at Google IO as well. So it, you know, who knows half of these hardware announcements probably aren't gonna happen, right? Because we always expect they're all gonna happen and then they don't. But any number of those could possibly happen. So it's a lot of ground to cover during the keynote. So looking forward to that, Google IO starts tomorrow. We will be keeping an eye on it doing live coverage. Of course, like I said, 10:00 AM Pacific tomorrow morning. And well, when you're gonna be experiencing all the fun firsthand, so lucky you, I am so jealous

Huyen Tue Dao (00:23:54):
<Laugh> I will, I will report back and see, I mean, like, we'll, we'll see what it is. I, I think it's very fascinating for this to be the first kind of in person, like actual Nongo folks being at Google IO events since this all started. So we'll see how it goes. I it's it's, it's gonna be weird. Like, I, I think it'll be definitely weird to be back just from the state of things of the world, but also just to see what it's like, cuz this is definitely not your average IO, which is as much festival and spectacle as it is dev event. So yeah, we'll see how much of the latter part we have. And, and how much the virtual experience compares to the in life one or real life one. So we'll see.

Jason Howell (00:24:34):
Yeah, yeah, indeed. Cool. I'll try not to

Huyen Tue Dao (00:24:37):
Be like too many, like celebratory tweets me much full like ha I'm here. This is the best experience ever. I bet everyone's like so such

Jason Howell (00:24:46):
This is the best Google I I've ever been to. <Laugh> forget

Duncan Jaffrey (00:24:50):
The most important part.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:24:52):
Oh, what's that?

Duncan Jaffrey (00:24:53):
It's the merch. I I'm, I've got a big hole in my Google IO collection. There's no 2021 Android bell, Android mini. So,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:25:03):
Oh, I need to get one of those MIS we did stop by. So kind of we went early, see, this is me. See, I did get my IO 22 swag. It's

Jason Howell (00:25:13):
Me. Nice. Very nice.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:25:15):
So very nice. So I, I filled, I filled Mike a quota for this year. If my husband's isn't fit, I'm stealing his as well. So yeah, I, okay. So there's me brag humble bragging about or not, not actually humble, bragging, just bragging, but must wig. So yeah, I mean, that is nice. That is nice. We actually have so many between my husband and I, we have so many dev t-shirts that we could never possibly wear them. I think I need to quote them or something and make like a canvas of,

Jason Howell (00:25:39):
There you go. That's a good idea.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:25:42):
I need to send you guys guys a picture of my lanyard collection from all the Android conferences that the two of us have gone to over the years. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'll have to post that on the show one day after I had my I 22 on it, but yeah, definitely.

Jason Howell (00:25:55):
I never had vacations to save my lanyards. They just always ended up at the trash. I was like, oh, why start now? <Laugh>

Duncan Jaffrey (00:26:01):
There's a whole, there's a whole community out there of Android pin collectors that they, they have. These are yes. Yes. So if if you'd like some future investment advice, buy as many as you can wait two years and visit eBay.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:26:14):
Oh my gosh. Brilliant. I will do that tomorrow. If there's, if there's a so store, I'm gonna go clean them out. Oh, I, I mean, no one

Jason Howell (00:26:22):
Out the

Huyen Tue Dao (00:26:22):
Buy interesting one for me, one, my husband,

Duncan Jaffrey (00:26:25):
There's a purchase limit there onto you.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:26:27):
Oh no. What if I come back in like a, oh, I guess I scan our badges, see what happens with too much technology. They can scan my badge probably and know that I've already bought like whatever the allotment is. So

Jason Howell (00:26:38):
<Laugh> exactly. All right. So let's we have one more story in the, in this top top block and we actually did talk about this a couple of weeks ago, I think, but anyways, when you got it,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:26:51):
It's made real. So yeah, a few weeks ago, we we've, we were reading up on an APK breakdown where someone found a string, which I, I guess I didn't, I actually, if in case you aren't aware a string is not like a piece of yarn, but a string is basically any piece of text that gets displayed in API. It's called strings in dev world. So that's, if you were, if you were wondering what I was talking about, that's what it is. But someone literally found the text welcome PAs keys in the Google play services APK some months ago. And now we have confirmation and that in fact, apple, Google and Microsoft have kind of joined together to support the phyto Alliance and w three C common password sign in standard that they're creating. It's called multid device, phyto credentials. And we talked a little bit about this a few weeks ago, about how basically the idea is to eliminate the kind of cumbersome, you know, of managing multiple passwords, which leads to bad practices.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:27:46):
And there's a lot of great intentions here with Fido. They wanna make it simpler but safer. They wanna make it ubiquitous and increased usability and make things low friction. And by hopefully making security easier for users to make users overall more safe. And so this is using publicly or public key or asymmetric cryptography. So rather than the user entering passwords, you're gonna basically have these numerically linked public and private keys, which basically the software, the, the service, the authentication service will handle for you. And so you have these collection of like mathematically generated keys and they will be backed by one of these major platforms, apple, Google, Microsoft, and all that you have to do is authenticate into that platform. And so what's what, so basically apple, Microsoft and Google have said, we're gonna do this. We want to make, we want to create a, a widespread, easy to use way for people to stay safe when doing authentication.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:28:40):
And so this will be available on multiple devices, any device that you have, where you're logged into your, you know, credentials, backup of choice, whether it's one of these three platforms you on any device that you are logged in with one of these platforms you can use as an authenticator. And you can actually, if you, if you are familiar with, or have you used your Android device as a security key, and if you log on to say your Google account from a new device, you often get like maybe a popup on your phone that says, Hey, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, you're, you have a log attempt from some phone and this location, or do you, do you, you know, accept this, it's kind of this same experience where you'll have your authenticator device. And if you are logging in a new, onto a new, you know, device on like some other platform, whether it's a phone or, or, or the web, you'll get one of these push notifications.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:29:27):
So the difference is, is that rather than this being kind of part of QFA, this is going to be your authentication experience. And what's interesting is that while these notifications, as you might use them with security keys to your Android device are done through the internet. This will be done through Bluetooth. So you're gonna have multiple devices that you can authenticate through using these, these asymmetric crypto cryptographic keys, but you'll need to be on Bluetooth. Cuz what it's doing is actually looking for a pH, you know, it's looking for you to be physically nearby. So that's kind of part again, of the, you know, this part of the thing about QFA, right? Something that, you know, and something that you have in this case, it's like, okay, you need to be there. You need to be there when this request pops up. And of course it being Bluetooth is kind of interesting and might kind of cause some problems for like, you know, it might not be as multi device as they hope if you aren't an OPC that doesn't have Bluetooth, what do we do there?

Huyen Tue Dao (00:30:17):
But that's the idea is to kind of convert from two FA, which is okay to this crypto cryptographic, you know, or asymmetric, cryptographic based, you know, credential system backed up to a major platform. And yeah, this is again being goo wanna be officially supported by Google, Microsoft and apple. And in regards to Android, this is gonna be done through Google play services. So the good thing about that is that older phones can actually make use of this multid device, phyto credential authentication. Even if, you know, you're an older phone because Google play services, you can just download it and then you'll be able to get the authentication through there. So yeah, there you go. Apparently last Thursday was world password day. And so they celebrated by saying, we're gonna kill the password

Jason Howell (00:31:01):
<Laugh> so,

Huyen Tue Dao (00:31:02):
But there you go. It's official. All these, all your major platforms are trying to make your security easier and maybe not make it. So you have to manage all these passwords in different sites. So there you go. I

Jason Howell (00:31:15):
Mean, any of the times that I've had, you know, Google do that and, and had to authenticate or been given the opportunity to authenticate with my phone, to log into whatever I've, I've enjoyed that experience. Like that experience works for me. So I suppose to that end, I, I would love to see a little bit more of that. What do you think about it Duncan?

Duncan Jaffrey (00:31:37):
I I'm in so many minds, I would love to secret goodbye of password. So the people I have to support with what's my password for this. And I look at them and go, how can I possibly know a lot of the, a lot of the members of aro have a health or a community service background and we've been discussing this and some people made some really good points of they didn't quite put it this way, but what if you, how your phone and yes, Jason I've turned you into a a a Uve

Jason Howell (00:32:05):
<Laugh>. Okay.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:32:07):
And you lose access to the single point of accountability. What's the failback. Yes. Yeah, because if that phone doesn't work, in which case, your security is only as good as your, your your failback point and most people will say, oh, it'll be a magic link to an email, which is simple. And, and definitely something that a lot of people can use, but then email hijacking, we know is a massive issue with people taking over people's email accounts. And then mm-hmm <affirmative> if you hijack the email account you, and that's the lowest com denominator, then all of a sudden the security isn't as good as it could be. And then, you know, as long as it was always an option, there are some people who are more technologically challenged and I don't wanna single any, any group out, but who may not be as comfortable with device based authentication. Yes. But

Jason Howell (00:32:52):
From, for sure,

Duncan Jaffrey (00:32:53):
For myself, that always has multiple devices and these accounts set up and multiple devices that couldn't come soon enough, but it's those finer points of implementation for a diverse community that I'd like to see.

Jason Howell (00:33:03):
Yeah. Is it a mandatory thing or is it a requirement or is it an option? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good question. Because some people just are not going to feel comfortable with something like that. It's, it's just, they're they, you know, they're too used to the password thing, as flawed as it may be. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, it works, you know, that same password that they've used on 20 million sites that works for them. And, you know, it's, you could tell 'em a million times, like, that's, that's very insecure. You're gonna get in trouble if you do that too long. But it still kind of doesn't matter cuz it works and they're used to it and everything. So it's, it's hard to undo that. But yeah, I, I and I like, I like the idea though, of the, kind of like the Bluetooth aspect of it.

Jason Howell (00:33:47):
Someone in chat asked if there was any NFC support, I'm not aware that it ties into NFC in any way, but I like, I like that it thinks that they've thought about the fact that like this is a, a, a very, you know, closed location that is necessary. You know, you need to be within that, that small area in order to authenticate that eliminates a lot of external threats and really, you know, kind of makes it more secure as a result. So I like that as well. I don't know when we're gonna start seeing this cropping up in more places in more apps and stuff, but but it's, but it's interesting to me that apple, Google and Microsoft are all like, yeah, we're on board. Let's do it. That makes me think that we're gonna start seeing it sooner rather than later.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:34:35):
Yeah. It, it kind of reminds me a little bit, like, you know, we talk about other things like messaging where getting all these major platforms on the same, <laugh> kind of standard is a fight because, you know, they have their own interests. Yeah. But it's really cool to see that in the interest of user security and also the fact that they're right, this kind of thing needs ubiquity. It needs to be scalable. It needs to be available everywhere for it to actually work. So in this case, you know, it, it, it does behoove them to co to cooperate and coordinate on this to make, you know, lives safer, I guess when it comes to their bottom dollar and their bottom line, then whatever, you know, let's fight you. But when it comes to actual, like improving overall, not just user security, but also, you know, all the services that, you know, users use and that are hosted on these platforms, they need to work together.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:35:20):
And I, I really like that a lot. I, I mean, I guess going back again, the single point of failure, that is interesting. I mean, if you're still authenticating to your platform that is holding all your phyto credentials, all your phyto, public, private keys, that's still a thing. And I think, you know, you'll have one password rather than multiple, so it's not, I guess, unlike your one password or your last password, whatever your preferred password manager is. So, I mean, hopefully I can get my dad to write a little bit harder password than what he used is it's not a good one, but I mean, it is definitely a Stephanie, I, I think we talked about this, but it's interesting, like for tech savvy folks like us, this seems like N B D. And you know, if we feel uncomfortable with like the one point of failure, maybe we have some way of mitigating that, but there's also like, again, like the average user who may not be as tech savvy, who needs, who needs the extra assistance and who cannot manage the complexity or nuances that we have with two FA right now, which is really who this is for, in my opinion, just the average consumer that really needs a boost and really needs assistance in getting

Huyen Tue Dao (00:36:22):
Yeah. Themselves authenticated and, and super secure. So I think I'm also, I'm, I'm gonna be of two minds about this for a long time, but I think it's a good thing overall. I think it's a net positive mm-hmm <affirmative> that I'd like to see, so, yeah.

Jason Howell (00:36:37):
Agreed. All right. Passkey look for it. All right. Let's take a break. And then when we come back, we'll get into some hardware news. But first this episode of All About Android is brought to you by ITProTV. It's important when you're looking for an online it training platform that you're getting the most up to date content, right? If you're learning information about it, that's outdated it's not gonna serve you very well when you're, when you're actually doing the work. So you're looking for that, that information to be up to date, it's also going, you know, required for the certifications that you're gonna be facing. So we're gonna make it easy for you. All you need to know, is ITProTV? And you've heard us talk about it a million times before that's because it's awesome. In fact, they just released a new course comp Tia, a plus core one and core two series.

Jason Howell (00:37:30):
This course is actually designed for professionals who support today's core technologies from security to networking, to virtualization, and a whole lot more com Tia's a plus certification is an industry standard for launching it careers in today's digital world. And in this course, you're gonna learn about hardware. You're gonna learn about operating systems, networking, security, and troubleshooting. It covers a ton of ground. We talk about how great ITProTV is here at twit, but here's a reason why here's that reminder. They have seven studios where they film Monday through Friday. So they are constantly creating new content. Their courses go from studio to the course library in 24 hours, they're divided into 20 to 30 minute episodes. So it makes it really easy to binge drop in on an episode when you've got a little pocket of time, that sort of thing, they make sure you're prepared for your exams.

Jason Howell (00:38:22):
They have virtual labs and practice tests to help you get, get prepared. In fact, the best part about ITProTV is that you can learn and get certified on your own schedule. And it's always entertaining, right? That's just a, a huge part of the reason why people love it. Pro TV it's, it's actually entertaining to watch. You're not learning something. It's some boring thing. It's fun may is ramping up for summer. And so is ITProTV? Their free Azure weekend is scheduled for May 14th and 15th. You can head to their website to get free courses that's right. Free courses, and a great introduction to your next it career. ITProTV is gonna have two free webinars this month for you to check out. There's. What is Azure bicep with Adam Gordon and west Bryan that's available on demand and then on May 19th at 2:00 PM, Eastern, all things, cyber security with Daniel Lowry and John Hammond.

Jason Howell (00:39:19):
And don't forget about your it team as well. You can check out an ITProTV business plan and get your team ready and going with ITProTV today, visit itpro.tv/AllAboutAndroid. You'll get an additional 30% off all consumer subscriptions and that's for the lifetime of your active subscription. When you use code AAA30, that's itpro.tv/allaboutAndroid and do make sure and use that code AAA30 for an additional 30% off for the lifetime of your active subscription. ITProTV builder, expand your it career and enjoy the journey. And we thank ITProTV for their support of all that Android and for continuing to be so awesome. Thank you. ITProTV and hope you check it out. All right. Coming up right now. We've got some hardware to show off. Well, not show off, but talk about anyways. I wish we could show it off.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:40:16):
I do too. I'm excited about this first first story, actually. <Laugh> super

Jason Howell (00:40:20):
Excited. Yeah. The, the bummer about this first story is like, when are we at, when are we gonna see it? I don't know. Maybe Duncan will. I don't know if we will, but tell us a little bit about it, what it is. Cool.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:40:30):
Yeah. I, I think this is fascinating because I think growing up in America, we always kind of picture Japan as being the wonderlands the fantasy land of not just, you know, of pop culture, but also electronics. But in the recent years, we haven't really seen much in terms of Japanese makers and smartphones. And actually I I'm actually taking Japanese lessons and I actually had this whole conversation with my Japanese teacher the other day. He actually is a Japanese person living in, in Korea. So obviously, you know, Samsung and chow me Chinese like Chinese, the Chinese, Chinese manufacturers, and also Samsung, a Korean company kind of nominate the space in terms of, you know, smartphones and Japan as a country where we usually kind of imagine, you know, a lot of amazing electronics and innovation comes from really haven't, you know, had a lot to, I guess, celebrate or say in the smartphone space.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:41:19):
But last year there was a very interesting phone from sharp, the aquas R six, which had an enormous one inch sensor, a camera sensor, which I think was actually the biggest cam smartphone sensor of that year, which just beat out Shami, which also had a ridiculous large one. And they're making a sequel to that. The sharp aquas R seven will continue to have this huge, I mean, look at that thing. That's amazing. It's a one inch, it's one, it's a one inch 47.2 mega Pixel camera. And it has a 240 Hertz am. Alet display, six word heard it's Emma display, 6.6 inches, 1260 by 27 30 Pixels. And I mean, this thing is really cool. It, it has for you camera bus out there. It has a, like a camera lens. And if you're not familiar, Leica is a super high end, super trendy, like all the really, really intense photographers that I know or at least trendy photographers.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:42:11):
I know you like us. So it has a F one nine 19 millimeter focal length lens, super fast lens. Oh my gosh. And it has a lot of other amazing things like realtime face body and eye detection. It's because the dang back of the camera, the dang one inch camera is so big. It actually has four X lossless zoom, which basically takes that 48 megaPixel image and Pixel bends it down to 12 mega megapixels. It has AK recording, like no kidding. And yeah, it still has like a nice 12.6 megapixel solve the camera in the front in display fingerprint sensor N carries the Qualcomm snap drag in eight gen one. We're in, we're looking at 12 gigabits not gigabits. I always make that, I know what a gigabit and a gigabyte is. It has 12 gigabytes of Ram, 256 gig gigabytes of storage and comes pre-installed with Android 12. And I want this dang phone. It's only gonna be offered in Japan though, not dissimilarly to the Sony Aros R six, but I think it's an amazing camera. And I mean, this is kind of what you would expect from, you know, the Japanese electronics industry industry in terms of phones. And I, I really, really, really, really want it. I want it real bad. Y'all I want really

Jason Howell (00:43:23):
That, is it the camera that, that appeals to you most? Because I mean, what, what they're doing different here. Yes, it's really, it's a huge sensor. But there's, there's also not a, like a full array. It's not like a quad camera set up here. It's like, no, here's your camera. There's like a small camera to the side, but that's just a depth, depth camera. It's like, this is your lens. And this lens does everything you need. And that, that is appealing, right? <Laugh> it's like, well, we would be end up going backwards in time. Right. It started with one lens, but it was always one really bad lens. And then it went to four lenses because each of those lenses had a different kind of thing that it was good at. And then now what sharp is creating, what you know is implementing one large lens that does everything. Is that kind of what this, this is for the most part?

Huyen Tue Dao (00:44:10):
Yeah. I think I like the appeal of that because to be honest, you know, I have the Pixel six bar, which has like the camera bar and I, to be honest, I really don't use the other cameras too often. So I, I re I, like, I think we, I think I know I, every time we see kind of a unique camera design, especially a unique flagship camera design, I get really excited. Yeah. So for me, this is like, okay, let's try something totally different. Let's give you a big stomping camera give you loss of zoom and see what you can do with it. So I, I just think that's really cool. And also it's kind of, I, I really like seeing other competition, other countries, other companies, rather in other countries kind of participate in, you know, offer up, you know, new, new designs and new ways of making cameras.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:44:52):
Cuz I know like a lot of us are really sad when LG, you know, stopped making smartphones and you know, like other of our favorite companies, companies either don't meet our expectations or don't quite, you know, release what we expect. So I'm all for more innovation and more messing around and throwing arts at the smartphone board, smartphone board and seeing what sticks. So yeah, there you go. I, I really, I don't know. I really like it. I just, I just, I love, I love the camera and I love what smartphones have done for not just like photography, but filmmaking and, and all that kind of thing. So I I'd love, love to, this is a big camera sensor I want,

Jason Howell (00:45:28):
I know it's huge. It's like an eye. It's huge. It's like an eyeball.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:45:31):
It literally is organic

Jason Howell (00:45:32):
Eyeball. Yeah. <Laugh> yeah, it

Huyen Tue Dao (00:45:34):
Is

Jason Howell (00:45:34):
So Duncan what, what are your thoughts? Because I know, you know here in the us, we get, we, we never get devices like this and realizing, you know, obviously you're not in Japan, but maybe your market gets more phone. Like I don't even know that I've seen like a sharp phone in carrier stores or really, you know, in everyday people's hands, like is, is sharp a brand, a smartphone brand that you ever see with any regularity where you're at.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:46:03):
I, I think it's just important this point to say I hope you can get some sharp photos out of this. I think we missed the opportunity to say that

Jason Howell (00:46:10):
<Laugh>

Duncan Jaffrey (00:46:10):
Wow,

Jason Howell (00:46:12):
Excellent. That should be their marketing campaign. Yeah. The sharpest photos with, yeah.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:46:15):
I'll move on. No, no sharp. Isn't a big, thank you Bo a, a big camera phone brand in Australia that I don't even think they're retail here at all. We have a very vibrant international import market. Japan is literally right around the corner in the APEC zone. So they're not that far, but no, one's that far with postage, but no, it's not a brand we'll see here or see often on the street. I, I do agree with when, from one perspective that I love seeing something different, what I love about Android. So this looks like the kind of joke image we used to see on spoof sites where someone would say, why can't we have a SLR camera? Yes. Or a, and to put on the back of the phone. And literally someone has waited, I don't know, 10 years and go here, here, I've done it.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:46:59):
This is a full image sensor on the back of a camera and the bump isn't that big. And you asked for it and here it is. And I'm excited for that, that Android lets that happen personally. I'm with you, Jason. I used to write that. I didn't see the point in having multiple lenses until multiple lenses got good. And I now actively move between zoom normal and wide in order to enhance the photos I'm taking. If you know, I, I don't like zooming in on the screen. I know what that does. It doesn't give you a good image. So having proper optical zoom a proper wide, and it adds to my toolkit of taking photos and getting what I need. I'm doing a lot of renovations at the moment. And you know, in some places I don't have a lot of depths. You tap on the wide and you can, you can capture the image you need. Yeah. So as much as I applaud this and I'm very appreciative for a dad joke. I I, I like to triple array cameras.

Jason Howell (00:47:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll be curious to see what this one lens can do. Like how much flexibility it's given, because I mean, also at this point, consumers are getting more and more used to having those options, like having some sort of a wide angle to turn to, or you know, that optical zoom and, and like you said, they're doing a four X lossless zoom here. It's not, it's still not optical. Right. It's still right. Pushing in with, with digital. But if it's, lossless, that's accomplishing the same feat. So that's two lenses that it's, that it's duplicating. Does it give the wide, is it a wide enough angle lens to begin with? I'm not really quite sure, but I, but I do appreciate the idea of a single lens that can do it all. And if, if it absolutely can, cuz people do have more of an expectation. Now we we've just gotten used to having all of these different lenses. So now you gotta deal with that. <Laugh>

Huyen Tue Dao (00:48:43):
So I will say like, I, I did kind of mention where we haven't seen much in terms of Japanese smartphone brands and I I'm maybe some, some, some of y'all already knew this, but I know we talk about Qualcomm a lot because they are kind of like the majority yeah. Of flagship pro of flagship smartphone SOCs. What I didn't realize was Qualcomm was bought some years ago by KSA, which is a Japanese company is actually KCE comes from Kyoto SU Suami, which is like, they used to make ceramics. And at some point KSA bought Qualcomm. So even if Japan isn't making kind of like very user facing consumer facing smartphones, they like Japanese company or at least a Japanese own company. I don't remember off the top of my head. What, what country call Qualcomm is in makes the chips. So I thought that was, I just thought that was really interesting kind interesting contracts too, like the end product of a smartphone versus Qualcomm the, the, the technology inside. So anyway, there's your word fun fact today from wins, Jeff? Yeah,

Jason Howell (00:49:40):
Totally. I, I, I didn't know that that's, that's awesome. Yeah. That is a fun fact. It's fun. <Laugh> it's as fun as the pink walls in this room. Okay. We just let's see here, Samsung, some, a little bit of Samsung roomy news, and I, you know, honestly, there's not a whole lot to, to go on here other than the fact that the galaxy watch four, I, I think was a, was a pretty interesting wearable, definitely one of the wearables that I've enjoyed, although I haven't worn it in quite a while, but I, you know, since we've been in, in the pandemic and everything, I just find less of a use of, of a smart watch when I'm in the confines of, of my house. You know, like, like I really need to be notified immediately of that notification on my wrist, but anyways, the watch for the galaxy watch for great watch, Samsung did a really great job with it, and we're starting to get rumors around the, around the follow up the Samsung galaxy watch five turns out that apparently the rumors are pointing to a possible pro version of an app upcoming galaxy watch five.

Jason Howell (00:50:44):
I don't really know exactly what that means other than some of the room rumors we're pointing to. I think a 60% larger battery, which when we're talking about wearables, I mean that right there is, is a big deal. In my opinion, cuz people are always complaining about the, you know, at least with Samsung wear or with a Android wearables complaining about the lack of longevity of the battery. So increased battery life on a, an upcoming Samsung galaxy watch, five pro apparently the classic model is going to go away. And so there will be different you know, maybe there'll be restructuring kind of the levels and, and features of these wearables. But anyways, I, I don't know, are, are either of you excited about kind of Samsung's wearable Duncan? Did you get a chance to check out the galaxy watch four and, and if so, what do you think about an upcoming galaxy watch five.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:51:40):
I never got to wear it, but I got to play with it. I'm always excited for a smart watch development. I'm a two button and a crown fan myself but the Samsung with their twisting bezel. And I'm not sure if these ones have that sort of give you that crown functionality without a button. So I'm always happy to see the market move forwards battery. Life's always interesting. Unless I could get four or five day battery life, what I'm looking for is 20 is 24 hour battery life after two years. So I don't care what it does right now, but after two years, I still want it to last 24 hours. The more important to me is actually fast charging on the watch cuz my if I got up in the morning and got ready and then, you know, sort of left a dressing room, I got about half an hour maximum that the watch would be off my wrist.

Duncan Jaffrey (00:52:29):
And so I've got half an hour to charge a watch a day without having to invent a new workflow. And so that's not something I've seen yet is that I've device, this small packing enough wireless or even contact charging in to, to re refill it enough on a short bathroom schedule. Sure. If your bathroom schedule's an hour, you can keep that thing topped up. And without a problem, but if you wanna wear it the whole night through to get all of that sleep monitoring and cardiac monitoring, cuz I, I do the heartbeat and SATs monitoring with this watch, which is really interesting information. I do the sleep monitoring, I've got the the new nest mini two hub thing on my bedside table, which does the sleep monitoring feature, which is great, but it doesn't do your breathing rate or your respiratory rate. And so there's big holes in my data as I charge my watch for an evening. So that's what I'd love to see more than multiple days is a clear 24 hour period. No questions asked and better charging. So a short charge every 24 hours is enough

Huyen Tue Dao (00:53:28):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> oh, Duncan, I have a question. This is a bit speculative, but so I have, so I use a whoop fitness I'm I'm not really a watch person. I'm a fitness tracker, but I'm not really a much of a watch person. I just found that I've always stopped using them, but this whoop actually has a battery pack. That's external. So I know this would be very difficult for a phone, but I'm just kind of curious the way that this charges is like there's an external battery pack. I charge the battery pack and slide it over this, you know, this kind of fit bitty type watch, and it actually charges on my wrist. So it could be like during the day or whatever, of course it's not, oh wow. A watch. So I'm not actually Mon yeah. I'm not actually monitoring it.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:54:02):
So if it, so it ha the battery pack. I wish I had it to show, but it actually is a little plastic like wireless charger that slips over top and I just walk around with it. I can sleep with it on it's light enough that it doesn't matter. And that sounds absolutely difficult to do as a watch, especially, you know, with any heat and safety issues. But what do you think of that? If, if you could have an external charger that you could slip over your watch and of course you might, might not be as usual usable or visual, would that be something interesting? And I kind of just thought of that if, if is, is, would that be yeah, there you go. Thank you.

Jason Howell (00:54:33):
Wow. That's so cool. I've not even heard of this as a way of charging up your smart watch

Duncan Jaffrey (00:54:38):
You're or you you're a hundred percent asking the wrong guy, cuz I used to drive to work with my charging disc shoved underneath my watch, plugged into the cigarette lighter of the car. Really <laugh> so, so I could top up my watches I drive, so I didn't miss out on any data. So yes. Would someone is insane and crazy and I have a, a battery that he kept to up to keep his watch going. Yes. Is that the consumer experience I think would move wearables to the next step? Not for, not something with the display. I completely get it for the device that you have mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. But yes, Duncan, the person would a hundred percent be on for that. Duncan, the technology critic would have a lot of words to say.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:55:16):
Fair enough. And <laugh>, I'm imagining you're not driving with a charger tuck under your, under your wrist. Know I that's amazing. I

Jason Howell (00:55:25):
That's dedication.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:55:26):
Dedication. Yes, for sure.

Jason Howell (00:55:29):
Its like I will not be without this notification on my wrist. Not for 30, 30 minutes dangit.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:55:35):
Not that stag it. No, I think it's a really good, good point though on like the, the limitations of wearables and the power issue, like to, to safely and consistently charge your watch and being able to use it as it should be. So

Jason Howell (00:55:47):
Yeah.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:55:47):
Sorry I cut you off dunk <laugh>

Duncan Jaffrey (00:55:50):
No, I, I it's all good. I, the other option is you can just take your watch off for a little while. It's the, in the old days people would say, if you, if you left your phone behind, would you go back for it? I'd say yes. If I leave my watch behind, I do go back for it. I do find it U useful. I have all sounds on my phone turned off and almost all of my awareness of what's happening on my phone comes by vibration on my wrist. And you know, so I live in a notification soundless world, which I very much enjoy.

Jason Howell (00:56:19):
Yeah. Yeah. So you've, you've adapted your use case around, around how you get notified through your wearable. And I've had times where I've done that, but then I always end up go reverting back to my phone. I too live in a soundless world. It's just, I end up muting my phone a lot. And, and so as a result, like I'm, I'm less aware of notifications, but I've kind of hit a point as a, you know, in the last, I don't know, three or four years, I kind of hit a point where I was like, you know what? I don't wanna be notified about everything. Like I'm cool missing certain things. If I'm doing something important, it's cool. I'm sorry. You won't be able to reach me immediately. I'll get to you when I'm ready. You know what I mean? And so I don't know the, the idea of having a, a, a smart watch. That's constantly buzzing me about everything got less and less appealing over the years. And that's probably part of the reason why I just don't really wear smart, watch as much anymore. Cuz like I don't have that. I don't feel that need to know about everything right away. You know what I mean much, much to the behest of anyone who's trying to get in touch with me and I'm sorry. <Laugh>

Huyen Tue Dao (00:57:23):
We have, we

Duncan Jaffrey (00:57:24):
Have very different wives, Jason

Jason Howell (00:57:27):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Well, I mean, but I, but I'm able to, I don't know, but I get those notifications. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but anyways. All right. When you have the last one.

Huyen Tue Dao (00:57:39):
Yeah. So for the last, for the last bit of hardware news, we have a few Motorola based stories and Motorola, Motorola, Motorola, Motorola foldables and flippable and roller bowls are looking to come down the pipe. We're looking at, so if we're looking at kind of an update to the Motorola razor and I mean, I guess if you're like me, you had some initial like kind of nostalgia with the Motorola, like flip razor as a, as a flip, you know, smartphone. And it kind of very much looks mu like those old razor phones, but you know, I kind of idolized when I was first kind of growing up in, in the cellular world, but I, I actually, I actually got one and I was a little bit disappointed. I think there's a lot of nostalgia there, but the actual, you know, specs of the device and the way it works, it's kind of cute that it looks like the old razor, but it definitely was overshadowed by the Samsung Z flip three, which is better in a lot of ways. And I think what's interesting is also just the design rather than co relying on nostalgia. Samsung, the Samsung flip three is just trying to provide an interesting flip slash flip foldable foldable, a flip foldable that we're calling it flip foldable a flippable so

Jason Howell (00:58:52):
Flippable yeah. Foldable now. Yeah, flippable

Huyen Tue Dao (00:58:54):
Sure. So it looks like from kind of some sneak peaks that we have at the third Motorola razor, that Motorola is trying to take a little bit of a lead from the Z flip three and try to kind of, I don't know, the, you know, kind of get into twenty, twenty two realm of flip phones and from leaks, it kind of, or rather from some speculative pictures, it looks like very much like the Z flip three, rather than having that big old chin, which is so kind of iconic of the OG razor. It's going to have more of a squared off a kind of more of a squared off outside with rather than having the chin having two exterior CA cameras, just like the flip the Z flip three and one will be a 50 megale F one eight main camera with a 13 megapixel ultra wide and then a 32 megapixel selfie camera on the folding display on the inside. But overall less curves, less colors than the Samsung Z flip three with just black and blue and hopefully a flagship worth where the snap Snapdragon eight gen one, supposedly they had, they were looking to add the plus variant of this chip into the third generation foldable razor, but long story short or rather long story shortages, they're getting hit by the semiconductor chip shortages.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:00:17):
Everyone

Jason Howell (01:00:17):
Else that's good. I like that. I appreciated that

Huyen Tue Dao (01:00:19):
<Laugh> eh, someone does at least and we're looking at kind of, you know, very standard eight to 12 gigabytes of Ram between the low and high and models and 256 gigabytes or 512 gigabytes of storage. So it really looks like your Motorola razor will be less of your OG razor and more of your Samsung Z flip three when it comes out soon. And to kind of go along with that, it looks like Motorola is also working there on their own roll bull smartphone known as the Felix, not too much as known about it yet, except that, you know, it's gonna be a rollable in the style of other rollable that we may have like looked at like the APO X 2021, apparently LG had one going to had, had had a rollable going on too, but you know, LGS not doing mobile phones anymore. So we might get a look at a rollable. We actually can get our hands on with the Felix Evan blast for 91 mobiles reports that, you know, there, it isn't the worst, but it might be at least a year away. So we'll, we'll see. Well, how do y'all feel about roll bowls in the

Jason Howell (01:01:24):
Realm of four? I, yeah, I feel like more and more we're we're seeing these leaks and like early kind of prototypes around rollable, but we haven't really seen, we haven't really had rollable haven't had their Samsung fold moment yet. You know what I mean? We haven't really seen the like major mainstream device. Like this is the full, the rollable that, that all other rollable are going to be compared against. So we're not there yet, so, but I'm sure it's coming interesting to me that this is compact and it rolls to be a little bit taller instead of like,

Huyen Tue Dao (01:01:57):
Yeah. It's about a third collar scroll,

Jason Howell (01:01:59):
You know, mm-hmm <affirmative> but you and, and Motorola might want to call it the Motorola roller. It's rolling. You know, so you

Huyen Tue Dao (01:02:09):
Got, yes. Oh my gosh.

Jason Howell (01:02:10):
R O L L a the Motorola Ola. What do you think Duncan do you like the, the roller bowls? Do you think the raise, do you think Motorola overestimated how much people cared about the nostalgia factor of the razor form factor? Cuz now they're just getting rid of it. What are your thoughts?

Duncan Jaffrey (01:02:28):
I think they may have, but first of all, I think wind has fixed the nomenclature forevermore. I have foldable and applicable. So thank you. That is definitely the, the correct terms now on that. Yeah. I am a foldable and fish INO, so my, I carry two phones every day and the Samsung fold three is, is one of those I haven't been without it from the moment I've got it. And I don't intend to ever walk around without having at least one foldable poem phone in my pocket, going forwards until rollable are available. What I want is something the size of a normal Pixel that the screen can extend out. I, the extra real estate is fantastic. I use the foldable for my day job and it that extra real estate notification triage. So I, it is, you know, old jokes aside is a business phone and I get, I get a lot of utility out of it, but I would love a normal form factor when it's closed. The screen is a bit narrow and a bit difficult to use and not quite as useful as the standard wits device, which is why I was excited about the Google news about maybe theirs was going to be a bit squatter and wider when it was closed. But yes, I am all on board for rollable phones that extend out and I'd love the UI to slowly grow as it comes through. And maybe Android 13 with its large phone tweaks that I'm hearing about may, may make that a reality one day,

Jason Howell (01:03:51):
Ah, that easy, like yeah, everything kind of moves gradually with the motion would be great. I'm just, I'm so reminded though. What was the very first foldable? It wasn't the Samsung foldable. It was the

Duncan Jaffrey (01:04:04):
Wawe

Jason Howell (01:04:05):
No, it wasn't even Wawe it was that, that random brand that that ended up being like repurposed by oh man, the drug cartel guy. What, what was that y'all aren't following and I wish, I wish I could remember. Oh, oh, oh, so, oh, that's like the Escobar. Yes. That's it ESCO the, the Escobar phone. What was the, that was based on a foldable phone? ESCO bar, just gimme one second. It was based on something by God. What was the name of it anyways? Okay. I'm I'm following down a, down a little rabbit hole here, but anyways, my point is that when we first saw that foldable, which was like the first like, example, like, oh wow, they're gonna beat everybody else out to market. And they showed it going to that like folded out thing. It was so chunky. I mean, everything like on the screen just like froze and then like started kind like Bing around and falling into place. And I always wonder if like, if, if what we want is that gentle kind of like transition that's best case scenario, is that what we're gonna get? Gosh, I hope so, but I can't help, but think that it's gonna be chunkier than that. That

Huyen Tue Dao (01:05:18):
Was it. Oh, I will say I'm actually really. And so Duncan, we are phone twins because I also nowadays carry around my fold three and my Pixel six. I will say actually as a dev and we've talked about this a lot about how it's theres a lot of unfortunately dev and baggage and antipathy and entropy when it comes to large screen devices. But Hey, does that there, if you have dev, if you have like device budget, get foldable because you can test both a regular phone sized screen and a large screen all in one phone. I actually use this for like use the fact that it's both a large screen and a regular phone screen at work for a feature that I'm working on that I'd love to talk about sometime. But I actually think that that, that the rollable as a developer would be a lot of fun to develop a large screen for, because I think what's interesting is like, how do you create a compelling experience when you're going from, oh, hi, the camera's on from you go from here to here.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:06:11):
There's like a context break, right? Like a phys like an actual physical, you know, breaking of your vision from like one screen to the other. But I think the rollable would be really fascinating as an experience because I think we we've had conversations like this. Like how do we, how do we create a seamless experience for when, for when the person is literally like unfolding the phone, whereas a foldable or sorry, a rollable has the advantage of not just, not only just being greaseless, but you know, is not a context break. It's literally just the phone getting bigger. The, the, the, the screen getting bigger and there is plenty of APIs and animations that should lend to this easily. And I actually would rather do that than have to worry about how do I kind of make, you know, bring the user from the front to the, to like the middle screens in a nice, interesting way. So I don't, I'm all for it too. Rollable I'm excited. I wanna see something without a crease cuz I'm that person that sees the crease and I'm like, no, yeah.

Jason Howell (01:07:03):
It's, it's hard to see

Huyen Tue Dao (01:07:04):
It's it's there.

Jason Howell (01:07:05):
Yeah, totally. I wouldn't have, oh yeah.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:07:08):
Have you found a change in the apps? When I first got the S three fold, there was a lot of apps where you went from closed to open. It had reboot the app. It just couldn't handle that transition. I noticed a small jump in the first few months and now it's been static and it may just be, I haven't changed my apps, but do you, do you find that you've got apps that are still updating or have you now got that hard and fast? This one scales, this one doesn't and it, it force reloads me.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:07:33):
No, I think that happens pretty often. And this is just kind of like how the sausage is made moment where I think a lot, I, I know a lot of us have just kind of, not forsake in large screens, but just kind of, you know, we, so, okay. More sausages made more basically if, if the user can recover a lot of times for, for a situation, not necessarily even a bug, but for a situation where the user can recover easily. Like, like, like the example you're talking about the, the app restarts, right? You're not blocked from data. You can continue to use the app without crashing or, you know, any kind of freezing after that happens in that kind of case. I will say, I bet a lot of people will just kind of, you know, take it take, take the hit and just let it lie.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:08:20):
Because I think often that becomes the, you know time, time, money resource compromise there. So I still see that in places. I actually don't use the front screen too often cuz as you said, it's kind of narrow and a little bit tough to use. I like it for notifications, but that's pretty much it. Mm. But I would, I would bet that I'm sure a lot of that wa I wanna, I wouldn't bet I I'm pretty sure most apps will do do that. And just to give you insight on what conversations around that kind of thing and those kind of bugs happen. Yeah. That's, that's a little, that's a little conversation you can have is like, well, if a user can recover and it doesn't hinder them from accessing features, right. You just let it fly. You just let it fly because there's a lot of pixel pushing. There's a lot of testing. There's a lot of like smoothing of edges that takes a lot of time and hence money that some people just don't wanna spending time on. So that's a long answer to a short question of, no, there's still some janky apps, but I, I, I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm saying that as a, as someone sympathetic both as a developer and as a user.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:09:21):
Yeah. And I, I think until that can be incentivized, the, the widespread rollout will stay to people who see the value rather than choose it because it's a better product.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:09:33):
A hundred percent.

Jason Howell (01:09:35):
Yeah.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:09:36):
120%

Jason Howell (01:09:37):
Plus one to cousin of Ja and chat who gave me the name of the phone. I was looking for the Royal flex pie. That was like the first foldable before the wave of foldables. That was like the first one that came out, that everyone was like, oh, we finally got a foldable phone. And it had all sorts of weird quirks to it. So anyways, I'm happy that the name actually existed somewhere. So thank you cousin J for finally feeding that to me. Apparently my brain couldn't find it.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:10:03):
Excellent.

Jason Howell (01:10:04):
There it is. Yeah. That's the, that's the flex pie in its in its glory. I think

Huyen Tue Dao (01:10:11):
<Laugh>

Jason Howell (01:10:13):
Oh my God. Wow. That, that is a chunky beast right there. Isn't it <laugh>

Duncan Jaffrey (01:10:20):
IC for

Jason Howell (01:10:21):
That's you do it right there. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently that's how you do it. All right. We are going to transition into apps coming up next.

Jason Howell (01:10:44):
All right. We talked about this not too long ago, this kind of the impacts of Google's billing system changes and kind of how that's trickling down into apps. Essentially. Google has this this new policy around billing saying that developers who are offering in-app digital purchases have to use Google's billing system. Can't use their own billing system for those in-app purchases, those digital purchases. If it's a physical purchase, you can use your own, your, your own billing system. If it's a digital in-app purchase, you have to use Google's billing and kind of the latest casualty of this, you know what, whether that's a good or a bad thing, I don't know, but the latest casualty it's, it's making things more complicated is kind of my point, Amazon recently removed audiobook purchases from its audible app. And I'm, I'm a big fan of audible sponsor on the network, of course.

Jason Howell (01:11:45):
And so, you know, I've been using audible for years, but I'm always purchasing credits. And I don't, I don't know that when I purchase credits, I even do that through the app. So I haven't noticed any changes, but apparently that's the only way that you can buy audiobooks through the audible app now. And then now Amazon is turning off Kindle digital book purchases on Android. So if you're using the Android app, you can still use it to buy physical goods. But if you come across an audio book or a Kindle book or anything like that, you now get a, why can't I TA why can't I buy on the app link that basically explains, you know, Google place store has new policies. You're no longer gonna be able to buy new content from the app. You can build a reading list on the app and then buy on the Amazon website from your browser.

Jason Howell (01:12:37):
Same for Amazon music purchases. So just something to kind of be aware of, probably gonna see more of this as, as time goes on, because I mean, you know, Google has made this change that developers now have to kind of morph around. They have to make, they have to do the calculus of the decision of, does it make sense for us to still sell and give Google this certain percentage of what we're making? Because we have to use their payment system or just cut off purchases in the app altogether. And I mean, ultimately it's just, it's bad for the consumer, right? Because now if I want to buy something, buy a Kindle book on my Android device, I then have to open up a browser. Or I imagine I could open up, you know, like Chrome on my Android device and do desktop version and do it that way. I'm sure it would work, but it's more complicated. What do you guys think?

Huyen Tue Dao (01:13:28):
My unseemly was a very real reaction to this. I, I mean, it's so frustrating as a developer because I think so many times, you know, external factors like this, like we, I, I really, every time on a project where we've had to kick out to a web browser, I felt like as a failure on my part as a developer and as my part as like a, of a product team, because it just yeah. Can imagine that kind of thing drives me absolutely insane for as much as, as nominally, we are a world built on smartphones and mobile devices. And I, and this maybe is just kind of really overly picky on me as like a developer like that kind of like context flow breaking and having to rely on the web drives me absolutely insane. Both both. It's a user, cuz I'm really impatient.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:14:12):
Now I've learned that I can get things really quickly and if I don't get them quickly, I get upset. But also as a developer, because I mean that also just causes certain complications or maybe it makes things easier depending, but it, it just drives me absolutely insane. So this having to make this kind of decision drives me insane, but I can understand that we're kind of getting into this space now where we constantly are talking about different companies pushing back against this kind of like monolithic are our way or the highway, you know, on the business side of things. So it's very frustrating for me as a user and as someone who tries to create like smooth frictionless experiences for their, for, for their users drives me, absolutely fricking insane in all kinds of different ways. But I understand sort of the reason it's happening again, like whenever we talk about someone like Amazon or another big company kind of complaining, I'm like, yay. But also I still don't like you, but it, it is so frustrating. It, I, yeah, I, when you were reading, when you're reading it out, Jason, just thinking, oh God, I wanna do this too. So that, that was a very real reaction on my part. My, my old man groaning was <laugh> or very real reaction and probably I'm making that same noise. Next time I go to my Kindle book, my try to do a Kindle book purchase and forget that this is happening. So yes, unhappy

Jason Howell (01:15:29):
For me. What do you think, Chuck? What, what are your thoughts? Oh, you muted.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:15:35):
This is an area I have a real hard time sort of deciding where I stand. I, I do agree that it feels rent seeking behavior on behalf of the big app stores to sit and just click collect this 30%. But I also agree that there shouldn't be free. There is value that they add in, in the platforms and, and the, the stores themself there is, there is security security to be found by having something curated, monitored, and scams that that has costs. And that has value. Yeah. That I don't have issues with them seeking out. The most egregious of this, I actually think is Microsoft who screamed from the top of their lungs about app store being not fair and that want to collect 30% of the, the game revenue and what games platforms, store is excluded. Now I understand they sell their hardware at a lost leader, but you could argue that Google gives away everything.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:16:25):
They do almost as a lost leader. So I'd like to see a bit more there. So I really don't know who's signed to come down on this specific news infuriates me because it's gonna make just that little bit more difficult. And if I can't buy my three credit pack top up for audible, when, when I'm wanting to crunch through a series that will just be that other barrier, at least in Android, it should throw you out to the browser without there being an issue. So I can authenticate through the browser. And so it's going to be an annoyance rather than using Google play billing, but I do get why Amazon's doing it. Although I agree with when I don't like them either, don't like any of the big platforms <laugh> so

Huyen Tue Dao (01:17:05):
Yeah,

Duncan Jaffrey (01:17:06):
It's something that needs to be sorted. We, we need to get past this and all these capitalistic com companies need to come to a day to, so the users, aren't the ones left in the middle.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:17:17):
That's a really good point though, on, in this case, on the, on the, the kind of like the four, I mean, 30%, you know, kind of as a easy person, just listen to that sounds egregious, but you're right. There is value there and there is services being provided as part of that 30%. It's not for nothing. It's not just strictly, it's not strictly speaking capital greed, although there is a certain healthy amount of that to be sure. Probably, but I, no, I think it's a really good point too. And maybe also, again, kind of looking at the other side of PLA like platforms like iOS, like kind of a curated, streamlined, super like, you know, seamless experience is what part of like what you pay for, with the hardware, with the software, with everything else. So that's a, I think that's a really good point to make as well that it's not like it, it should not, it shouldn't, it shouldn't everything can't be for free obviously. I know we've talked about that quite a bit. Right. So I think it's a very fair point to make.

Jason Howell (01:18:08):
Yeah, indeed. And then finally, in app news, when you got the fun one, I will, I will admit that Ron had he been on this evening's episode, he was scheduled to get this story for obvious reasons that win will now reveal

Huyen Tue Dao (01:18:26):
<Laugh>. Yeah, I was really sad. I'm so this is for Ron, because for, you know, for Google IO, there's always some kind of like fun little game or fun little feature and especially like last year, for example, kind of playing around with the idea of all the various technologies that Google has that we use in our day lives from Android to Chrome and fluttered fire base, which are kind of more dev century things, but they're there, they have all these little cute little mascots and last year for IO, Google kind of created a photo booth where you could take pictures with a different mascots. Well, this year we've got a little bit more of an interesting entertainment TV had with the mascots, instead of just taking photos with them, you can play Google IO, pinball, and yes, it is. It is extremely sad that Iran is not here to take this story.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:19:11):
I know this is because you can play Google IO, pinball and you get to be, you get to choose which one of the mascots that you get to be the game actually will kind of theme and change colors based on which mascot you have chosen. I, when I tried it, of course, I had to pick Android because that's just displaying on the day job, but you can be like the flutter birdie, the Chrome dinosaur, the fire base, fire <laugh> or, or Andy, the Android. And you can, you know, use use your keyboard to move the loops around and play arousing game of pinball. Ron, this story was totally has totally has your name on it. We wish you were here to present it, but there you go, everyone play a round of Google IO pinball for Ron. And yeah, it's, it's pretty freaking, it's pretty freaking cute.

Jason Howell (01:20:00):
I love it. Yeah. And it's well done.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:20:02):
Yeah, for sure. And I believe it's actually written for flutter for interview. Flutter does up there. I think it's written in flutter, so

Jason Howell (01:20:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Built with flutter uses fire base for hosting and for high scoreboard. And then of course it's a web app, so that's Chrome. Those are the kind of the three main aspects and it's open source. So if you wanna kind of see how they did this, you have access to the code.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:20:26):
That's actually a thing that Android does are missing this year because every year there's a Google IO app and what's really cool is the Google IO app is a showcase for all of the new technology, all of the new techniques, all the new like architectural and design patterns all get showcased in the Google IO app, which is also always open source. So it's like, it's kind of like almost like a goody bag, I guess, in terms of like dev techniques. We don't have it this year probably for, because they probably, because it's not as big as last year they might. And, and because it's primarily virtual, it doesn't really make sense to have an app because the app would be how you schedule, you know, your personal in person, you know, sessions. But definitely if you are a fluter person, I envy you because you probably have some cool code to look at and as well, a cool end product to play around with. So definitely check it out. It's it's pretty fun. It's it's awesome.

Jason Howell (01:21:15):
I think Burke, when you enter your initials and you hit return, does it show like a, a, like a leader board with all other players? Cause I think my understanding is that it's all synced online. I could be wrong on that though. I'm curious to

Duncan Jaffrey (01:21:29):
Know, know that missed a good opportunity. I dunno if you guys have heard of it, but there's a really good platform for pinball called score bit score bit iOS, their website. It's the world's leading pinball platform for community, for sharing scores. And I would've loved to have seen in you know, integration, but yeah, you should look it up if you haven't heard of it.

Jason Howell (01:21:50):
What is it again? Tell me again

Duncan Jaffrey (01:21:52):
At score bit dot iOS, their website it's oh,

Jason Howell (01:21:54):
Oh yeah. No way, minute. That sounds vaguely familiar.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:21:57):
That sounds, I don't know

Jason Howell (01:21:58):
Why I've heard of that before. Strange. I think I've heard of it. I think if go to smore bit score bit smores. Yeah. Smore score it. Yeah. Like you're scorings. No, no, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. God, we, we have somebody that we normally have on the show that talks about that from time to time. Anyways.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:22:14):
I,

Jason Howell (01:22:15):
Yeah,

Duncan Jaffrey (01:22:16):
I did load it up, but I couldn't see the integration. It's a shame.

Jason Howell (01:22:20):
<Laugh> it's too bad. They need to build that in there. Oh man. Missed opportunity. Missed opportunity. Super cool. Everybody should definitely go to pinball.flutter.dev, and you can play IO pinball, and you will have a blast. It is a lot of fun. Although I will say the ball moves a little leader.

Burke (01:22:36):
Doesn't work. I don't

Jason Howell (01:22:36):
Think Uhoh yeah. It's not working for you right now. You're putting in your, your initials and it's not sinking so well, I mean, oh, well it can't always work. You won't even

Burke (01:22:45):
Let me put in the All About Android ones. So which I was trying to do here. And then it just does

Jason Howell (01:22:49):
This. It's like everybody puts AAA because All About Android is awesome. Yeah. That's why not because it's easy. Oh, well that didn't work. I think, I think even the article that I read on nine to five Google says that it, it can be buggy at times. So just forgive it, forgive it. Everything has a, a bug hiding somewhere. Right. All right. It is time for your feedback. AAA TV 3, 4, 7 show AA. We gotta wrap this up before my voice completely disappears. What when you got the first one.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:23:23):
Yes. And I, I would like to let you know, like everyone know that I personally write totally Boless code. I've never written in a bug in my entire life.

Jason Howell (01:23:30):
Oh, okay. Good

Huyen Tue Dao (01:23:31):
To know. That's that's not, that's not true. That's

Jason Howell (01:23:32):
Not true in this case. <Laugh>

Huyen Tue Dao (01:23:34):
Dirty wire. So the first one is from Matt bat. This is an email to the Android development teams through the biggest Android Bullhorn around AA. Can you please, for the love of everything, holy pause, screen input for a second or less after a screen rotation, please, please, please. I can't tell you how many times I've touched the wrong thing. Just because the screen changed as I was moving my finger to push it's often also happens on websites that suddenly jump around after they have completely loaded. And somehow I always manage to click on an ad. Yes. When that happens, is that the intent? However, I have no idea how to fix that problem, but yes, if you could pause, touch, screen input for a short while after screen rotation, that would be an awesome first step

Jason Howell (01:24:21):
<Laugh>. I know I've experienced that. I don't know that I've experienced it as much on, on screen orientation. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I have definitely experienced it on like a mobile app or, or like a mobile webpage that's loading, you know, you know, when it happens more than any other time is like a recipe webpage. Yes. And you go to recipe webpages <laugh> I swear like, and, and you start scrolling down to get to the recipe, cuz the recipe is always like two thirds of the way down after like mm-hmm, <affirmative> all of this like really important information about how I decided to make this recipe. And as you're doing it, as you're scrolling, new elements are loading on the page and then an ad appears and it starts to play and boom, you just touched it now it's loading that ad and oh it's so it's a nightmare. I hate it. I don't know what the solution is, but I hate it.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:25:07):
I love how that's such a universal experience for people that look at recipes on the web. Yes. Like every single person who's looked up a recipe on the web in recent years has this exact same experience. And I don't know the solution and, and I don't know the solution either to the website issue. It is I, it almost feels kind of like nefarious. I totally agree with you. It almost feels like on purpose that I've clicked on way more ads and probably driven way too many metrics in the wrong direction. In my, in my in my fair share, I don't know if I have a solution to this. My husband was like, turn off JavaScript, which is a solution, but we'll probably break the rest of the website. So I, I dunno. I mean, to be honest image loading to be fair is a very hard problem to solve, to be fair to developers.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:25:48):
But also I like, yes, I agree. I, I would, the rotation thing is interesting to me and I, I would be curious, Matt bat, if you are finding that your app is rotating when you don't expect it you know, kind of, or you know, whether it is it rotating unexpectedly is right. Like the screen locked in rotation and then unexpectedly unlocking, like I know that happens. I often, when I'm lying in bed will have my phone locked in portrait mode so I can lie down and not have it rotate on me. But if I watch YouTube video, then of course in full screen mode, it automatically goes to landscape. So is it a situation like that? I don't have any other, I, I think, I think barring that I'm not quite sure, just like the stupid recipe thing, sorry, recipe websites, but you, you, you all know what you're doing. I don't really have,

Jason Howell (01:26:37):
Oh, they know,

Huyen Tue Dao (01:26:38):
They know, but I don't have any good tips other than that, but I I'd be curious to kind of to understand more like what you're like, what kind of specific situation you have with rotation, because I mean, it could be something else that, that devs can in some ways mitigate depending, but it really, I would need to know the con I, I, I personally, yeah, before I can give any further advice would need to know a little more context because yeah. But yes,

Jason Howell (01:27:03):
Wo Jo in discord says, you know, a simple way to, to avoid that would be to just lock the rotation into a certain orientation. Yes. And that's true, you know, because then when you rotate it to the side by accident, you know, nothing's gonna change. There aren't many times that I want to go into landscape about the only time I want to go into landscape is if I'm watching a video mm-hmm <affirmative> and there's usually like on a, on a YouTube video, for example, there's that little like kind of rectangle button that I can tap and that will put it there. Whether my device is set to lock into portrait or not, it'll still snap it there into that landscape view if I tap that. So maybe that's the alternative, I don't know, but, but I've certainly experienced it more with the recipe thing.

Jason Howell (01:27:48):
Yeah. <Laugh> and, and total side, you know, tangent on that, on that tip. I don't know. It was not very long ago that I realized when I load a recipe page, cause I've been doing this for such a long time, that there is a, usually a button at the top that says jumped a recipe. I can't tell you how many, like I didn't ever like notice that before. And so I'm always like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and every time I was scrolling, new elements are appearing. I'm like, ah, you know, hit the X to get rid of it and everything. And it's such a nightmare. And now that I know that there's just a jump to recipe button, I hit that. It takes me right to where I wanted to go. I'm like, how did I not know this existed before? But apparently it does.

Jason Howell (01:28:27):
So there's a little tip if you've experienced that Dean wrote in to say I'm Android, but some of my family has crossed over to iOS. Apple has airdrop while Samsung has quick share. And now all Android has nearby share. I have played with the app send anywhere to share cross platform. It seems to work well, have you used it before? Is there a different quick transfer solution you can share? I haven't used send anywhere, but personally I haven't, I don't know. Have either of you used that or have you used the nearby share extensively? I've used nearby share a little bit, but

Huyen Tue Dao (01:29:09):
I actually made a screen cap for this because I thought it was mine. My story. So I actually made a, I, I downloaded share anywhere and it actually worked fairly well. We did. Yeah. so minus, nearby share, which works for, you know, Android phone, Android phone. I would generally, I think for sharing phones between, say my MacBook. Yes. I use MacBook most, a lot of Android developers use a MacBook. That's like a company like a industry secret. But when I'm changing files between like say my MacBook and my Android <laugh>, I'll usually use like a Dropbox solution, but going from like one to the other gets a little bit frictiony, especially for phone because you have to kind of export the file to get it on your device and yada yada. So I actually tried send anywhere and it worked very well. So you, you have to specifically initiate the send and so you select an image. Yeah, we can hit I'll try to narrate the video as, as we,

Jason Howell (01:30:04):
Yeah, go ahead and hit play on that. I'm sorry. The nose a video that's right.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:30:08):
The video

Jason Howell (01:30:09):
It's got that play button in the middle

Huyen Tue Dao (01:30:11):
Right

Jason Howell (01:30:11):
There. It's, it's tantalizing us in the, there we go.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:30:16):
So you specifically kind of select images to share and when you get ready to send it actually will have a link including a kind of confirmation code and or QR code. So whichever, depending on what device you wanna share too, you can either scan the QR code on the desktop there, which was a little bit quick and I wasn't fast enough to narrate it, but I, I entered in a six digit code onto my Mac, which basically found kind of like this share of you kind of share in the cloud and then started downloading the image from the, my Pixel six pro, which is the left which if you're audio only, you can't see, but it actually starts sharing from my Pixel six pro to my Mac book. So yeah, it actually worked really well. And I think for a free tool, it's awesome.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:30:59):
There, it is a lot of ads. I didn't look whether there was like a premium description, but I think it's a really good solution. And I like that it's so robust with, you know, being very intentional, but sending, receiving, because that always makes me a little bit nervous with like share options. But I think it's pretty slick between like the QR code and, or like the kind of like six digit share, which is not unlike, you know, when you pair Bluetooth things together or even just sharing a simple, simple hyperlink, it's a pretty like service for sharing files for between different platforms without, you know, having like wildly, you know, disparate experiences between the different platforms or anything else. It's, it's pretty dang good. Thank you, Dean. I like it.

Jason Howell (01:31:40):
Yeah. Right on. Have you Duncan, have you had much I don't know, interaction with nearby share as a, as a feature set, that's kind of inter you know, become a thing in Android in the last year or so.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:31:54):
I have, I, I do use it. My number one use actually got a hell of a lot easier in last month cuz I share it to myself the most. Yeah. And to go through devices to, to turn it on. And so I was very excited that sharing to yourself now is much easier without having to activate the feature. Cuz I used it a lot to move devices between phones, tablets, Chromebooks, and so forth. So that was great. I have used it a little bit to share with other people, but for me it's the normal tech thing of what am I sharing and what's the best way to send it. So most things I share I'll send to people on telegram. It still gets to their device and as long as compression or it's not too big a file, I'll send it that way.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:32:33):
If it's a video or a photo, I'll send them a Google photos album. And then they get that link and can do whatever they want. And so because these things aren't interoperable and don't work as well as they can. You've sort of got this decision making matrix of what am I sending? Who am I sending it to? And what's the cleanest way of getting it to them. Cuz walking, someone else through using nor nearby share is a nightmare. I take the phone off someone if I'm doing that and go right. Just gimme your phone, unlock it for a minute.

Jason Howell (01:33:00):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> yep. Yeah. Agreed right on. Before I toss it over to you when I want to give, okay. Today I'm I'm making the, I'm making the decision right now today we have not one, but we have two emails of the week. So I'm gonna do one real quick cuz it's super quick and it's not an email it's from the chat room <laugh> oh, but it's gonna qualify anyways, because we were talking about that whole recipe thing and how recipes get buried. And it's really hard to find the recipe. And then the chat room mentioned. So we got cousin of Ja and discord mentioned this and I'm trying to find the originator of this in the IRC cuz someone put in, oh I guess it's cousin of Ja. So cousin of Ja, you are like the honorary also email of the week this week because pointed us to something called recipe filter, which is you can find in the Chrome web store and you can find it on Firefox. And essentially it's an extension that when you go to a recipe site, it will find the recipe and pop it up for you in a, in a popup instead of you having to search through the site to find the thing. So there you go. If this has ever been a pain point for you, cousin of Ja has you covered and you get the horns. So congratulations cousin of Jah. We've never had that before, not from the chat room. So that's

Huyen Tue Dao (01:34:21):
It breaking, breaking, breaking, email, breaking,

Jason Howell (01:34:25):
Breaking. Yes, exactly. <Laugh> all right. There we go. We can just wrap 'em all up into the same thing. Yes. Perfect.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:34:36):
Breaking email with the win

Jason Howell (01:34:38):
<Laugh> email. All right. When now you, yeah. Now, now you have the, the, the official honors.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:34:45):
So our email, our, our, our official email of the week

Huyen Tue Dao (01:34:52):
Comes from Jason from Chicago. And about a year ago I used Google's password manager in Chrome and went through and changed all my simple passwords to complex ones and save them in Chrome. I then committed to I then committed a long, unique password to memory for my Google account. I also turned on two factor using an app for a code for any account that allows it as an option. Here's the annoyance. It often seems like Android and Google's password manager in Chrome do not cross communicate. When I try to log into an app or a website on my phone, sometimes it automatically provides my login information and sometimes I have to open the Chrome browser, go to the password manager, go to the password manager website and copy and paste. Or if I create an account on my phone, sometimes it doesn't say the log, the login and password I created in the password manager.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:35:44):
I try to get my wife and parents to do the same, but I know when they run into this issue, they're just gonna give up and start using generic passwords. Again, I bring this up just to say that Google wants us to be more secure and help us be more secure. They need to work at some of these bugs and make it a bit easier on us. Amen. Amen. Jason, I certainly experienced that. Yeah. And this is just like what you just said, dunking about how, if something is not completely, you know, easy to use and user friendly that you <laugh>, you just find yourself, you know, doing things for folks or having them not use the thing that is probably ultimately better. And again, this is going back to kind of our PAs key story where yes, this is, this is what hopefully, maybe PAKEs could help, but yeah, I, I I've, I've experienced this too so many times where I hope that, and I don't know what it is like I'm not really a web developer, so I'm kind of curious or a security person by any means. So I'm kind of curious why some, some sites tend to evade the <laugh> somehow evade the convenience of like be built in password managers.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:36:45):
I've found a solution for some of them. So I experience this as well. And for some, especially when it's an app to the website, the app doesn't declare itself to be the same domain as the website. And I, I found this out actually by using last pass. And I found that when I reaped my credentials, both the listings were in there and I went in, it seemed to be that top level domain yep. Was different. And so last pass actually had a way that I can't remember. I was able to merge those two records and basically say this, and this are the same thing. And for those, they seem to say in lockstep, whereas Googles doesn't, and if you check the URL or the multiple Lessings, you might actually find that that's what's going on. I'm sure there's other reasons as well. I I've had issues with syncing where something I've done recently hasn't come through or I, I haven't updated a sign in, on a browser. And so it's not syncing at all, but the number one, cause I have found that the domains are actually different. Now, if you're having a website to website, domain to domain, then yep. Everything, no idea about that.

Huyen Tue Dao (01:37:50):
Yeah. I've notice that too done. That's a really brilliant point. That's really brilliant point. And I was kind of thinking to myself just now, who would not have the same like domain, but actually <laugh> for Trello where I work, we have trello.com but authentication is done through Atlassian. So, so I'm sitting here thinking who would never have like matching domain. And I'm like, I work@acompanywheretheauthenticationisthroughatlasian.com and, and yeah. So I, so yeah, there we go. I'm my own example. Thank you very much for clarifying that. So yeah. That's, that's actually really sense. Good point. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense, sense. That probably happens more than you think that than you think, just because I'm sure a lot of companies like, you know, have not, not dissimilar situations where maybe they have multiple products under the same banner and, and things like that. So that's an excellent point. I ever thought about that.

Jason Howell (01:38:37):
Yeah.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:38:38):
I've noticed, I've noticed that a lot with companies that also do third party or indication, so not being a developer, but there must be companies that do that and you go to what looks to be a really strange URL, but it, it has the, the, the company append ended at the end and then it takes you back to where you're expecting to be. And so I've always just assumed they were using a third party sign on provider

Huyen Tue Dao (01:39:00):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah, exactly.

Jason Howell (01:39:03):
Interesting. Yeah. The other thing that happens to me, cuz I, I have last pass is, is what I use to, to manage my passwords on my Android device. And there are times where I'll I'll do an app or go to a webpage that I know last pass has recognized before and nothing appears like I click into the field and nothing pops up. And I've, I've learned at this point that when that happens. And I know it should be happening. I go out to my home screen, I tap on last pass and really just like authenticating with my thumbprint is all, you know, or however you authenticate. It's like I had to wake up the app again or something. And then the next time when I go back over there, then it's like, oh yeah, here's, here's everything I should have shown you, which I don't know why it does that. I don't know why I said it's almost like it times out, but it doesn't time out for everything. Sometimes even in when that's happening with one site, I can go to a different site or a different app and it will appear there. So I don't know. Sometimes it's just confused and I don't understand why, but we figure out hacks around it.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:40:01):
My last pass hack is I always have in the notification shade last pass. So if that happens, you open it up, hit last pass. Sometimes that will force it to happen if it doesn't, if you long press on the notification last pass, it drops down. Copy username, copy password. And then you can just go copy based

Jason Howell (01:40:18):
Paste. There you go. That's a, that's a tip. He says, I love

Duncan Jaffrey (01:40:23):
Make sure that functionality hasn't changed.

Jason Howell (01:40:26):
Yeah, yeah. Right on. Well, thank you, Jason. Other Jason from Chicago for writing in and being our email of the week. There we go. All we have reached the end of this episode. My voice is still sort of intact and my battery is not totally depleted. So it's a success. <Laugh> thank you so much for hopping on with us today. Duncan, it's been a lot of fun having you back on the show. We appreciate it.

Duncan Jaffrey (01:40:55):
Thank you so much. I always loved coming on and it's been an absolute pleasure doing the show for the first time with you win. Thank you so much,

Huyen Tue Dao (01:41:02):
Brad bag out you Duncan

Jason Howell (01:41:04):
<Laugh> Duncan. Tell people what you want 'em to know obviously osro.net. If you're working on anything or yeah, this is your opportunity to plug whatever you got. If you got anything to plug

Duncan Jaffrey (01:41:16):
Aroy dot nets, where you find the teams work, I have to admit everyone else does the majority of the lifting and we are heavily into embargo season right now. So I have no idea what I can and can't say, so I'll do the prudent thing and say nothing.

Jason Howell (01:41:28):
<Laugh> there you go. Just go to aro.net and you'll find out in a matter of weeks or a month, or however long what Duncan is talking about

Duncan Jaffrey (01:41:37):
Or maybe 15 hours who knows

Jason Howell (01:41:39):
Or yeah, that's true. That's true. <Laugh> maybe, yeah, maybe go there tomorrow and, and see what happens. See what magically appears. Thank you. Again, Duncan, always a pleasure. And then what about you win? Who do you wanna leave people with?

Huyen Tue Dao (01:41:53):
Yeah, so actually this week is kind of a fun week for me because I did do an episode of not this Android show, but another Android show, which I did with my good friend and front of the show flu up ESCU for Google will be kind of like a runner up to the fireside chat. So even if you aren't a dev, you might find it interesting, but especially if you're a developer and you have questions for the Android team, please tweet them using hashtag ask Android because I think the fireside chat for dev has been traditionally one of our favorite bits. It's a panel of some of the most, you know experienced and good answer in having people on the Android team. And it's always a really good time chat hos, who is a long time Android one of the, one of the long time Android like leads he's he has a different team. He's led different teams in dev advocacy at, at Android. And also Santa comedian is MCing this year. So that's definitely something to check out if you're interested in the development side of it at all. And yeah, if you're on the live stream, maybe I might show up on the live stream a little bit with flua and doing some goofy stuff. But other than that, other than that, you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at queen code monkey, and you can find actual technical content on my website, randomly typing.com,

Jason Howell (01:43:11):
Right on have fun for all of us there at Google. I

Huyen Tue Dao (01:43:15):
Know you I'll try. I'll bring it back for, you'all bring the fun back to y'all.

Jason Howell (01:43:19):
There we go. Appreciate that. Big, thanks to Burke at the studio for pushing the buttons, doing that cross fade that you just saw right there. If you're watching the video. Yeah. Burke did that. He also pushed the button that made the applause. Yeah, he's doing all these things. It it's kind of crazy. Thank you, Burke. Thank you, Victor, behind the scenes for editing the show, publishing it, making sure that you get it into your podcaster of choice or on YouTube after the fact, you wouldn't see it without victors. Thank you, Victor, for all that you do. Oh geez. That's not nice. <Laugh> geez. Okay. Victor have words with Burke after the show. <Laugh> <laugh> you can find me at Jason Howell on Twitter. If you wanna watch me podcasting from this wonderful room the rest of this week tomorrow morning, of course I'll be doing live coverage of Google IO with Leo and Jeff Jarvis at 10:00 AM, Pacific 1:00 PM Eastern twi.tv/live.

Jason Howell (01:44:12):
So check that out. And then of course tech news weekly on Thursdays TWI do TV slash TNW. I do that show with bike a Sergeant and we have a great time. So that's my my live podcasting for the week. Don't forget club TWI twi.tv/club TWI. It's our ad free subscription tier. You get all of our shows with no ads. If you don't want ads in your show that you wouldn't even get this ad by the way then that's where you want to go. You also get exclusive twit plus podcast, feed content, tons of extra content we're putting, you know, like a, the Stacy's book club and ants interviewing, I think Padre this week father Robert, Balla just, there's always some really cool stuff hitting the feed. And then finally, a member's only discord that you have access to seven bucks a month or $84 for the for the year.

Jason Howell (01:45:02):
If you like to pay for the full year Twitter TV slash club TWI, as for this show, TWI do TV slash AA. That's the show page on the web where you can go to find everything you need to know about All About Android ways to subscribe all that stuff. Photos of us, whatever you wanna find episodes are also there. Twi.Tv/Aa. That is it for this week's episode of All About Android. I'm gonna go drink some tea with some honey dipped in it. And we'll see you next time on All About Android by everybody.

Speaker 6 (01:45:37):
Did you spend a lot of money on your brand new smartphone? And then you look at the pictures on Facebook and Instagram and you're like, what in the world happened to that photo? Yes, you have. I know it happens to all of us. Well, you need to check out my show hands on photography, where I'm going to walk you through simple tips and tricks that are going to help make you get the most out of your smartphone camera or your DSLR or mirrorless, whatever you have. And those shots are gonna look so much better. I promise you, so make sure you're tuning into twit.TV/hop for hands on photography to find out more.